e e e e e e e e e e [Music] yes please this is the Wednesday April 10th final meeting of the 2024 agritourism committee to review the recommendations made by the committee and drafted by Mr fleschman I'm turning it over to you Mr fleshman can I can I just ask or whatever um there's is this run on batteries we'll get it on the YouTube we'll get it on the YouTube I heard that yeah I heard it mine's on by the way um yours is on CH mine a green light H it's okay so by the way ever since the last meeting I found talking the mic ever since the last meeting I found a investable meter okay um I was talking to mrman and I say since the Bible levels that are on our PR code are 55 yeah I see that you can see right now that me just talking is goes on all the way to yeah it's like 65 yeah it is here you go here's some batteries if we have problems with the mics th and in okay um how about if we use one of the name tag holders we have an extra one the homans aren't here they won't be able to make it tonight so the Quorum is here put you water bottle or something see it in here use this I don't know what it is but use that it works yeah does it work everybody can see that see our decb hello this hello we that wasn't working at all can you hear it this one yeah I hear you speaker yeah let's see if it's showing yeah it's catching it it's showing on the bottom yeah thank you I see when I when that picks you up it shows on the bottom of the video and when you were just talking it picked it up where do we start I see a lot of papers I guess we got to start by call the r which I miss member Shas yes here member Fernandez Pres Miss hman not present member Mr hman not present and member Swang here Town manager Mia here attorney holes here Jim consultant here um what what I really want to try to do at this meeting is is get um that many formal votes um on issues as we possibly can because we want to take this to the uh Town Council at their meeting in May uh because this is uh technically the last meeting of this committee since it was appointed by the previous Council and if um if the committee is going to continue uh the new Council would have to make reappoint or or appoint other people so I want to start out with the we have minutes from two meetings in the agenda pack um February 21st and March 6 and U those meetings are accurate I I would entertain to approve each of those for visually well I think it's uh or making a changes if necessary I think it's a little bit too in other words we haven't even had time to we didn't know you wanted to approve this and you I have any other members we make sure that you know it is what it is sure I'm sure that there's reportings uh that that will back it up the problem is when there's no repor so that is what I have a problem so there are recordings of these meetings all of them of all of the meetings there are recordings and we had um the young lady who contacts each one of you her name is Ana she listen to all of the meetings and type to these minutes based on those meetings we also received from the holmans their written notes from some of the meetings she checked those she then went and looked at the minutes of the meeting compared to the recommendations that Mr flam and myself and Miss Holmes tried to put together we did circulate it um and the reason that we are having this meeting is so we could make you know a final determination if we wrote it correctly um so I leave it to you all if you wish to read the minutes and approve them um but essentially we hope that we captured your recommendations in the report for Council so and if you did not get this agenda I do apologize because I thought it was circulated and we did have Mr FL call each member um because we want to make sure that we didn't lose the opportunity to get it right I uh I I I'm not saying that this wasn't publicated or published all I'm saying is that I didn't know we were going to be asked to proove it read it read it so that's what I'm trying to verify it's okay not to approve them if you don't want to because the it is what it is Consolidated page with all the primary points or no yes right after that we have the um summary of all of the comments that have been made in a report that Mr fleschman and Miss Holmes have put together referencing to a summary of each of your recommendations and the actual um sections of our code that they address and then in addition to that Mr fleshman has handed out some additional information because one of the thing there are a couple other things that he wanted to to share with you before we wrap up our work the the two minutes really are sort of the summary of of the discussions okay sure that occurred at those two two meetings the a summary of of uh of the recommendations P just go through so U so if you U if you don't feel Comfort comfortable without minut that certainly is I don't feel comfortable it's just that I want to make if it's a recording it is but in in in past instances for example the water district there was many times that when we discussed and we said in the meeting when they came back to us on this type of uh it was not on so so I just want to make sure that if tomorrow somebody ask for a public record request and tries to match this to that uh it will be AC that's all okay so and the clarity of so we're not going to make a motion that's fine one thing I would like you to take a look at the in the uh uh group of of information that I put on your desk uh we we have the the original ordinance that I the Council considered as ordinance strong 2315 that that failed it's not in the it's not in the agenda it's one of the it's one of the handes you just look look for I'm familiar with the one that we uh that we out yeah yeah that's right the only uh the only specific recommendation that I recall that that this committee made was if you look at um page four of that ordinance under uh section 65-4 substantial offsite impacts of Agri tourism activities the committee wanted that struck that you wanted that taken out if if this ordinance continues you wanted that se help and that's that's where this ordinance attempted to get into some specific impact and if I recall correct we wanted it taken out because of the word substantial because there was no way to quantify the wor potential correct yes okay I okay we'll make sure that uh we pass that specific recommendation want to take a on that I want to try to have formal votes on as many things as we can so can officially go to the council we go over these these page you sure yeah yeah because because the committee essentially already wanted this out but but it was just a sort of a discussion and rather than have it be a discussion I'd like it to be motion okay so I'll make a motion to strike out the substantial uh where of the uh section 654 okay agre agre I agre with that second yeah second okay all right now the U uh let me see the needs of what I'd like to talk about Pages 11 13 and what what Ruth and I did there was was to go through the minutes and and listen to the tape and um uh try to summarize the discussions and the recommendations that the committee made on these uh various potential off-site impacts okay and um if we can uh if we can start with uh P page 11 um the uh uh the committee um was was okay with uh with the uh concept of the site distance triangle and was okay with a Prohibition of of uh off site parking on local Street and um which are in our existing code yes yeah that's right before I before we get into it um I should I should have mentioned that the committee in general feels that uh uh all of the pertinent offsite impacts are already addressed in code right okay so so what what we tried to do here would was to show where in the code that these off-site impacts are currently addressed okay and um specifically tie them into discussions that the council had we talked specifically about site distance triangle and we talk specifically about the about site F so I included on pages 14 and 15 inter sections of the code that that we have that address those two items at the bottom of page 14 we have an illustration of of what a site distance triangle is and then um we also have have the detail in the code as as to how the the site distance triangle regulat are established and uh it essentially says that within this side distance triangle you need to maintain a A Vis A visibility space of between 3 feet and 8 feet so that when you come to the end of the driveway you can look left and look right and see traffic on the road that's that's essentially where a sight distance triangle is I question so let's play an area I own a property not children and I'm trying to do this right at the corner I understand I have to be 400 500 ft from the corner before I can come into traffic is that correct well the county has its own its own regulations as to how close to to an intersection a dve can be so is that the same thing we're talking about here no because if I read correctly and that's where I need clarification in this diagram you show two corners and you're just told me that I can have 8 fet of visibility and three feet of visibility in order to come out of right corner into traffic no no no what I'm saying is is is you got three feet here and 8T here you have to be able to see see in that distance from from 3T to 8 ft looking this way and this way you have to be able to look in that open area to see traffic it applies to F Well if you look at if you look at the details um there there's no specifics it says if you have a fence that you can see through yes yeah if you look at the look at the SE section B at the bottom cap capital B there's some specifics about how how those are are to be designed and I understand but my question again is if if if pal count or the county or like I in my case I said o because I'm anob I cannot do the one the corner if I want to be compliant with for example other business like big dog and all of them they have to be like 400 500 ft away from the corner I read this this is talking about your driveway this isn't talking about this just visib drive you're talking about access management on okobe and it's 600 feet that's where I needed to I have question so you're sorry yeah M so um when it comes to down and myself we have a bridge that goes over to to let's say d Ro North Road and uh judging by this diagram right here it shows diagram of your your your driveway hit hitting the let's say d for example but I have 34 bridge where there's nothing on either side so there plenty of visibility to the right and the left that's fine so that shouldn't be abrupting the view correct even though let's say this is my property line here I can still have a sign here and as someone comes up they can still see perfectly well yeah yeah if you took an imaginary line yeah um along along the canal 10 uh 10 ft this way and then and come back this way and you can see in that triangle you're good you don't have to uh construct something in addition to that if if you already need the intent of that I believe down down he's the same distance you my question was with the foliage that's on I can't control that foliage to get the Seline so then is there something in this that that talks about that you could you bridge no he's referring to I believe we're talking about access from the driveway onto the whatever public Street you're going to correct is that the question right so with my situation I had the Ean that's borders the property mind and then you can't control that foliage I'm not allowed to touch that foliage what fpnl tells me so that which inhibits my visibility for your triangle that you were referencing to Ingress and degress on my property so where is that fall in this application well uh some somebody has the responsibility well obviously you get know to clear that to the ground to give you your sight line referring to I wasn't able to get it done I don't maybe the town can you don't I I just asked our attorney to look into it because as an FPL easement yeah um technically they would have to be maintaining the easement so we're going to look into that yeah yeah and they can they can have a hit they can have a head of three feet high well certainly I understand the concept of visibility for the and neg I got it but my problem is I can't control the folage because it's not it's on their easement and I referenced to them 20 years ago about that they said I was not allowed to touch their foliage at all zero and if I did it they were coming after me okay so well I think that's something that we can we can get touch with sure fbn to right set they could get it done and they they come out they do the typical well I'm not counting on us being able to but we're going to try probably won't be able to because they do the three-foot cut off the power line and that's all they're will to do so so my next question is you are the man what is this got to do with that's for Ingress and E sight line so when your public coming everything in here is for everybody everything that's in here all of the citations are townwide that's right yes and and what now what we're doing here is is specifically making the case and citing references to show that that these controls are in the Cod T which is which is what uh what the the committee wants I don't have a problem with it as long as it's sound this offsite and you're able to accomplish the job this is offsite correct this is outside impact it's not in my property yes that's correct You' be outside your property I believe well if it's in my property and you have no jurisdiction we we have jurisdiction to require a site visibility train well that's where that's where the that's that's where the veil of once again we've been through this that's where the veil of AG turism protects us and if I allow you to break that Veil once what stops you from breaking that Veil again and telling me what to do my proper okay well how we breaking the bail when because I'm allowing want townwide regulations and that's what we're giving you yeah townwide regulations meaning on offside impact I'm fine with offside impact this is my problem you you don't think that this this is like an eastan for example you tell me well I need an Eastman for you don't think this prevents an offsite impact be not being an accident on a town that is not the question here the question is do you have the authority to impose this in my yes he does the town does because this is a traffic safety standard it's you don't need you know um this Mr Fernandez you have been consistent from the very first meeting that we don't need you but what we're doing is we are summarizing the recommendations of the rest of the committee by eliminating that section of the ordinance as originally written and by going through each part of our code where it exists and where it doesn't exists townwide and you AGR tourism Property Owners would not be held to any standard that any other property owner would be held to so in about two months from now we'll send out a letter to everybody if I'm too loud I'm sorry I'm watching my numbers I'm staying below 70 I'm actually below 60 yeah anyway um we're going to send out it is a good prop I like it a lot um we're going to send out a letter that we send out every year to clean up the site triangles and when people don't clean them up like for instance you can't then we would have to contact either FPL or we can go through if it's very dangerous clean it up and Bill you we generally have not build any body because what we do is we offer um a free sweep of cleanup by our garbage company to pick up the veg north and south of okobe one Saturday and another Saturday so we've been doing this site triangle thing as long as I've worked here and it's been in the code as long as we've been Incorporated got a question so for this the triangle itself I can't only make it out the the distance it it goes into your property what's the footage going into the property looks done it's like 25 ft is is it 25 ft into yeah okay and then it's 25 ft to the right or left and then you have to clear that corner yeah okay I got it yeah you don't clear you just have to make sure yeah just so that people can see that's it to make it safe yeah yeah and I mean it benefits the AGS of business also rather than having cars not seeing where where the entrance is and driving right by yeah and trying to make a u-turn on our roads so and and actually what we're doing with this exercise is is essentially making your point but but but we're citing specific code references rather than just making the general comment well it's all covered in the code and somebody words of cover we identifying that I just I I feel so uncomfortable and if it's already in the it's already in the code we don't need to that okay now I agree on the certain changes that we're looking at the noise levels and I on that one I agree on the substantial part but this has zero to do with the substantial part when I was asked to sit on this committee I was asked to uh our job as I understood it was to Define and quantify substantial and I'm finding myself into other things that belong Toc and that's where the substantial is defined by the way we are getting the mics fixed substantial is the ulc so that's why we are taking it out as you're recommending that 6 5.04 and just simply saying we've already got it in the ulc and we've got townwide Traffic Safety in two spots one for the site safety triangle and the other for parking but we don't have a townwide safety standard and you think that the town needs a townwide traffic standard so those are the recommendations that we have um taken away from the conversations at these meetings that we would share with Council and I agree with Mr FL we should have a vote and if you vote against that's okay because committees have votes for and against like the council does so I think Mr flan it would be a good time to entertain a motion I got one more question yeah how do you handle the hedges that are inside the fence line that go like almost up to the driveways I see quite a bit of that throughout the town how was that are you requiring them to remove the hedges or what is have I see an awful lot of hedge workk that comes I know it's not 25 ft off the street there yeah yeah well if it's can be three feet high I see quite a bit of eot stuff is one of our okay well well I mean that's that's uh something that's not consistent with with code I don't I don't believe that we have gotten to that level of Code Enforcement yet we have not it's something that could happen but if you had a lot of fontage you could you could have some privacy hedes just where the entrance is but it need to be 25 ft back right and then you have to be 25 ft back on your driveway and be able to seat to that cor I'm talking about I'm talking about everyone everyone's property when you drive down you can see 9 which is fine when you go into the property need to be visibility and and every person is going to have to deal with that on their own based on the actual code right my problem is I just don't want the town coming after us for these sight line triangles and say you must remove this vegetation and these hedge Works everybody else in the town's Not underneath the same Rule and that's where we come into problems at least for myself yeah because that's what I keep seeing happening to me so meaning you have to go to the entire town and have everybody remove all this hedge work and so forth because well I'm fr it's fair though we can't just beat up us on on S I totally agree with you I'm the one who just recently made this argument on another code matter you know because it is difficult to enforce it in one place sure but that's what happens when you're complaint driven because somebody makes a complaint and then we have to look to code enforcement and so and that was what my original complaint but all this started happening that you know if you come after me for spe specific item that the entire town has to comply not just Darren Swank at Joy Swank at SW Farm well as you know issue with this whole situation what we got ourselves into here so as you know our number one goal is working with you to get to compliance we don't ever want to be an adversary and I think the real reason to go through our existing code is thumbs up or thumbs down and Simon if you want to vote against the traffic safety triangle you get your vote I will tell you the traffic safety triangle is like a road standard it's going to be in a green book and it's going to be hard not to follow but we're not going to come and um you won't unless somebody complains about corre then you're going to be Hest like white rights like everything I'd like to say more like the the fragrance on a flower repeat it one more time and I don't want you to think that I'm difficult I'm not if if my orders are to stand guard at a particular place those are my orders my orders are not to go to another place to see what's going on or whatever our orders in this committee was to quantify substantial this is not decide what they after but we can vote on it and let and let the council decide so I make a motion to vote in this item all in favor on again split on this one because I don't want to say that because my my whole problem is if I say okay but then nobody else is following the rule then then we're going to subject to this and then nobody else will be then you can say Okay based on the fact that everyone follows sure okay that's fine based on the fact that everybody no no I'm just saying so long as everyone follows we're good because that's what everyone has to agree with that I would agree with that statement yes not that just the tourism folks need it nobody else needs it the big heavy equipment operators need it everybody else they will need they need it more than anyone in and out yeah know whatever am I the only guy that that sees that this doesn't have anything to do with aism I mean I agree with your statement it's on your property and they really don't have jurisdiction for on property materials safety perspective I understand that too well then make motion well you know motion that agree with as long everybody else has the same exact standard in town I'll agree with that yes that's Mo for that yes you agree I agree I disagree okay that's fine so I don't know if it passes or not two one yeah okay then there you go okay so what you voted on is that townwide traffic standards are good and the existing rules apply to everyone every as long as everybody's within compliance then you can do us in compliance so that it means everybody else needs to have the 2525 C on the corner somebody to enforce it on so so what you're recommending then is another thing besides just this you're saying that if there's a complaint about one property then that item needs to be looked at for all similar properties in town so for instance if somebody saw and I'll pick yours okay if somebody saw a problem with your site triangle then I would send code enforcement to work with you but i' also say if you see anybody else you need to go ahead and look at them that's what it should be anyways that's what I've always been saying that is not how it is our Direction on Code Enforcement is to do it based on complaints and life health safety but that pits neighbor against neighbor and I've been since I Think Neighbor against neighbor should be between neighbor against neighbor I don't think the town should be involved when neighbors are fighting against one another because we do try to step out they could take those folks to court with what somebody's doing next to Ay take exactly take them to court soon that's what I've been I seeing that happen yet today all right so we voted on that item and is pass one let's go to the next next one is uh be on page 12 parking and we have basic list of of parking sections out of the code on page 16 um primarily out of the special events section and and also I have something I I had another handout gets into a little bit more detail and and I think explains it better if if you look at the one pager that has the red handwriting on it uhuh okay that's the this one yeah that's a um one of the discussions that we had was was uh how many parking spaces does Zs need and uh uh we we determined that there was no standards code at all sort of for for how many parking spaces were needed and in in the area in red um parking in my mind really only becomes an issue if if there's a large scale special event on the prop and uh uh I I found these these similar type of of Standards restaurant FES theater church and prate FL and lounge and uh they generally uh the standard is one parking space for four seats now um and this was really just like an informational item that I put out just just uh for for your not for your consideration to to make it a standard for for AG tourism just um I would like to at some point when you guys have an event um uh keep count how many um attendees you have and how many cars come in and I mean just just so we can get some kind of a handle on on on what good parking standard would be for an NE tourism event uh not that but just Just for information I can answer that to some degree at this point if you want to sure absolutely yeah so I okay so when we do regular parking when when you self Park we get about 60 cars on our area a space that we allow for parking on the north side of property if we do valet parking they can get a 100 so that's the difference I see and that's for how many attendees uh well it's anywhere from 200 240 260 those sound com about right one parking space for every three attendees is pretty that's pretty close yeah to four the private Club loue 3 okay on 300 uh gas it's uh it goes for that 75 so does they don't have to be like they can be an area yes they can be area doesn't have to be properly we're not telling you necessarily how to design them that's for sure but you can x amount of cars there comfortably yeah yeah the reason I did this is is is because we have a requirement there's a requirement in the code that you can't have a parking offsite on the streets so so so so if that's the case it would be to an egg tourism operators benefit to to to understand how many cars they need to Park so that the offsite parking doesn't Ur and if you have an event with um with a 100 people say and the general standard is is is one to four make sure you have 25 spaces yep and that's just uh that's sort of like an operational U uh suggestion recommendation yeah no no no that's something that uh I I know that thank you how many parking spaces um you you should have is an issue so we don't park off site yeah but if they park off site then there's code toize people parking off site so that's not really in our for those people watching they should know that you cannot park on a letter road on the street because do we have to put a sign that warns them hey guys we cannot park on the jar yeah yeah well I mean I mean uh I think if if the special events have enough spaces that shouldn't that shouldn't be an issue correct um so so that was just just the thought I sure pretty much accurate okay and and so uh let me see we're page 12 still right we're doing parking noise lighting orders yeah yeah yeah that's right the parking oh um the other the other issue that came up was uh let's see if we can develop uh townwide uh traffic performance standards on our local roads okay if you look at page 15 uh we we we not going back to noise no no still on parking yeah on parking still on parking look at look at page page 15 um capital A it's number Oneal volume on local roadways that there be between two and 3,000 vehicles per day and that's that's not an official level of service standards but but that's something that we could use as a starting point to uh to to develop our our local graphic performance standards on our on our streets I think that that and 2,000 Vehicles a day may may actually be too high based on the volumes that actually occur on our streets but but I think that we can do some some some specific individual studies if it comes to that we reducing traffic counts the the uh normal uh normal traffic uh traffic volumes of are based on traffic impact generations and most of the uses in the town in the AR District are are residential agricultural type type uses and the level of service standard for an individual single family home is 10 trip trips a day which I think is probably too High here so we can do some studies uh that uh identify a road segment identify the areas that use that road do a couple traffic counts and and come up with some level of service standards yeah I have a question uh like for example here you have a typical volume of local radway should be between Z and 2,000 vehicles per day when was the last time the town did a reading on any for example letter roads um there was there was a a traffic count done a couple years ago and I think it was more like intersections it was it was only intersections and it was unfortunately covid so you know a lot of people were not out valid well go through this again this has been in the code since uh 2010 but just because in the code just like the debes is in is not accurate right so we need to send that to ulc and let them revisit that's what I'm saying absolutely I I we can't just I can tell you okobi is nowadays oh no we're not no no no no we're not talking about okobi no I'm just giving you an example and then all those cars go somewhere like B Road you know some of those large businesses you know we have a neighbor that he's strong God bless him and and and uh yeah and we have a we have a roadway classification a system that's going in the comprehensive plant now and we can develop level of service standards that are specific to those different class of Roads um some some of the roads uh uh like um V uh see BD andf pretty much go all the way from from from Southern Boulevard to Oobi and North that's it that's our highest classification okay so you expect those roads to have a have a higher level of service standard than some of the roads uh that that only access Southern or J and and and the lower level roads that uh don't access either one of us they have to go to one of the higher dos so I mean it's it's a complicated issue you guys want level of Sur standards to be done it's it's not a simple thing think they have to using PR detailed studies to get there I uh I I think that we should keep it simple guys if we control that agrotourism operators do not park on the street of the letter roads that's it yeah they must park within your property property stuff you know like special event I think that allows you to talk to a neighbor rent from neighbor whatever to parking but definitely your business and your operation should not interfere with the safety of the of the rest so we need to vot on on that one well um yes well hey I totally agree um that's that's the principle thing the part it's it's is no no off offsite parking particularly agreement is that the parking one yes inside the Jim do you want to make a motion get motion proper Jim is a motion proper for that unless it's on a neighbors that you have an agreement with public roads Public Road well you're voting to follow what um the code already says for that's that's what you're doing Y correct because this go is old he needs to be revised and it's not our job is you allc and you already said that because you said they should look at townwide traffic standard I am you're consistent y the other thing that uh was that was discussed and you may want to make a recommend VC that is is offsite part like like another property you have a big vent uh you you apply your your one space for four attendees and say gee I don't have any spaces yeah so so I want to go to this guy across the street and see if I can park on his on his proper you just cross I was waiting for you to do that you just crossed the line that you were not supposed to cross that's why I ask you going to vote on this you're already assuming that we have to follow this under agism I don't have to follow this no of course I'm not saying so if if now you do it and then you got to ask you know this is so long as it's not offsite parking if we make a deal with a neighbor and they agree and we can park cars there it's not nothing to do with anyone so long not complicated Cod is the code if I'm not bothering anybody in the streets and you have no business telling me hey that car is too big that car is too little that cars you know it's a compact you cannot treat me like a shopping which is this okay so let's go ahead and look at what the sentence says because that's what you have to vote on a code revision to permit off-site parking under certain circumstances instead of should be investigated you say is not considered necessary is that what your recommendation is a code revision to permit off-site parking under certain circumstances does not need to be considered no or should be investigated that's fac it guys we can here have the best intention do everything and in the last meeting of the new Council I clearly heard Madame mayor my friend that everything is going to be looked at and everything might be thrown out or reinstated or revoted so well uh well the bottom line is do you want the ulc committee to look at uh Provisions in the adding Provisions in the code to allow barking on somebody else's problem that so you all see business is that ours we are here we should be allowed to do that I I I agree with that if I make a deal with my neighbor because I don't have enough parking and say hey I'm going to rent out your your open field that you have there once a month or once every year then I have that deal with him I'm to do with anyone else is there is there a is there a stipulation you can't do that currently well no I think they I think they're I think they're trying to say that you can't do it I want make there is one there is one already you can do it now it's done you can do it but you have to file some some very technical documents the clerk of course we would be I think we should be exemp it is correct I just looked at itre is that correct what did he say Jim you yeah I'm actually looking for some exemption you want to repeat yeah or you want to go back and the take he's saying he's busy I don't actually want to do either of those things I want the attorney to look at um what we need to do to simplify off-site parking there's a c provision that allows it now but there has to be some formal legal agreements signed between both proper like like a lease like like I'm I'm renting x amount of space from you for x amount of period at this cost we agree I mean that would be the perfect scenario but if you're having one tomorrow and you're doing it and you come to me and I say Joseph that's fine yeah that's that should be I agree I don't think he should be filing anything like that but he's concerned like if there's an accident on that concerned he's doing a job they want to change and we have it here should be in let investigate this is not our job TRS you don't want to have to if you could get to your neighbor neighbor between you and your neighbor sorry I your town the town should be between whatever you I already my neighbor we already have an agreement if I want to I don't need it I'm just saying if I want to do something in the future I can sound erosive but I honestly I would advise to have some I have agism Vis that's and I want to have a circus come to my property it is my responsibility not our responsibility to make sure that I can have a circus with not problem that I have the parking in that property that I have the animal safety for that property so it's not it's actually not even you know I read uh committee responsibility so that's where I disagree with well the aat turism committee was formed to make recommendations own substantial outside impact I think I've said that is all over the minutes more than once you know we already have in place that if you have a big up or a big party or whatever you want to call it and you are you can go to your neighbor you can go to the town and ask him to use the parking lot whatever shuttle from between here and the stadium I don't know there is already that provision in the code for everybody yeah Y and I'm saying that's what I'm fine and and I'm saying well okay uh I'd like you to read that that provision before you say your find are you trying to tell me that we getting screwed somehow yes what I'm saying is is that uh it requires legal documents and a lot of work um on on the leg legal M jumbo I think I think there should there should be a revision in the code where where you can go to your neighbor for a special event and and I looked at that I would like to use part of your property to park on my event tonight yeah perfect and then get the approval just like it is like like with an offside agricultural sign but correct isn't that already on the cover he's saying that yes but with paper yeah he's saying there's more complicated paperwork I think we should SC that out eliminated the paperwork out of it yes well okay is that a recommendation I that is a recommendation I think let's vote on it I think what is between you and your neighbor doesn't need to involve let vote on we go to the next one I'd like to get result yeah we are all in favor I in favor of paperwork for negotiating with attorne don't change it around later she she agrees with you oh that makes sense but she's double checking was the next one okay uh noise oh uh well not really the noise you're already breaking the law you're already break you look at if you look at page 12 noise this is one area that the committee already made itation I agree with as far as I could tell and it's and it says um the committee recommended that the following hours of operation rather than yes be used for your tour Monday through Thursday close at 10:00 Friday through Sunday close at midnight the committee also recommended that if death bills are to be uh are to be used the townwide standard of 55 DB needs to be reassessed yeah and and that U they also added um a uh an additional section on that um uh we oh I guess that's it yeah that's it and then we had um he had holidays because I thought that was important he Simon recommended holidays because holidays everybody's off like you know holidays would yeah ju on Friday and Saturday okay I see yeah like yeah holidays like that so just had the word holiday okay so holidays would I would have the weekend new wedes on that one yes zip we have to go through the motion yeah all in favor well I'm just surprised okay uh lighting um was uh was essentially the same thing um except that there was an additional two hours which one is this yes 5010 is included in attachment C which one that that would be what page it's on page 16 of 37 attachment C no right so so we have a recommendation on on lighting which is consistent with what it say so here same hours but but add two more and there was one exception in lighting guys right it was the uh the security lights facing the street or something like that facing in toward your the all security must face into the property not into the th all right um okay uh it's not see if you look at if you look at I had another end um it's called outoor lighting 50 the one question I had about the security in the lighting what eight I mean some people that have on the gate again I talk about OK because I'm up and down OK 100 times a day there's some people that have it for example there's a particular business on the corner of d Road and okobi that at night it's it looks like one of those jail beams there is a lot of light pollution in town I am actually trying to well there's a lot of huge light pollution in town so it's a liability not only for the town but for anybody driving when it gets to that intersection this light in your face so I would recommend that security lights be from outward how do you say be inward to okay or or it could be on a time what about being on a timer if it's by the gate so the timer scenario the timer still see probably even worse because you get to the prop and you think you're going to go on the PO well I know that that you have to have I mean I had just added lighting to my gatee since I'm getting robbed like right but but you have it if you have it facing dude you have to light up your your gate bro corre so you have to light up your gate how do you but that's way that's on a sensor only comes on when someone walks up to your game then sensors are okay but then when that person leaves okay that's Mak sense that's all yeah it's everybody yeah somebody shows up you can on camera yes that's what I [Music] need section 50-30 yeah it it starts out with a with the definitions of all different kinds of life and in my mind um the principal offsite of light would be from item number six that I have highlighted which is open air par parking area Legends and that's where that's where the impacts in my mind would come into play so you see number nine also number nine is what I was talking okay all right but because because those are the are usually the biggest lights the highest lights up and surround the parking lots and those are the ones that generate uh the U the highest number of Lum and um if we're if we're going to have standards and apply standards I think that we should concentrate on those kinds of lights not necessarily if you're having a party um and and you have lights on the table or I agree or if you have security lights on the side of your of your stable or your barn those those don't count it's it's it's essentially the open air parking but but that is within the CL we already listed out the time so after all time come off yes it's already yes but what I'm saying is is if you're having s say a a wooding perent and and everybody is is sitting eating and they have lights on their table and and there might be some round lights around it uh uh around an area those really we don't need to regulate no and you can't regulate them on acc anything inside the property you can yeah so you regulating what on-site parking lights yes on on your own property you can't unless remember this is offsite yeah well about on unless it's a substantial offside impact those are the lights that generate an offsite impact are are the open Ling the road you mean is that what you mean well or your neighbor I mean okay but so long as it's within the time frame I mean allowable or no yes I think so yes it is but what I'm saying is Miner lights you can keep on as long as you want to right that's but we talking about one that could up remember remember that easier for us to kind of analyze our own situation sure however yes this might refer to a agism operator that is having a rodeo okay so all this Rodeo lights all that will affect the offsite impact yeah but I think the radios are exempt at Town correct I like I've read that the lighting for the rodeos are exempt did I see that somewhere the offside impact no I know that but I thought I saw where rodeos were exempt from offside the lighting on somewhere know that we have that in our what about po that shows up H be here in a minute and a half so I the only the only recommendation that I think I can make is those High lumens that are you know affecting the traffic on the the outside outside imp so that will be is that's what it is yeah yeah and I think that we can we have definitions of of various types of lik and and I think that if we say open air parking Spotlight and and you know other lights that generate potential offsite impacts are the ones we're talking about see number eight is the one that I was talking about says residential and agricultural Recreation of light fixtures of a type or intensity design or used to light sport Sports or equestrian riding Arenas areas so some of them are like but only if they affect offsite if they're beinging directly to the street street all only and let say they let's say they do go onto the street if it's within the times that we're doing the events is that allowed or not allowed you cannot blind you cannot have light coming well well that's if we want to get into the area of Lum correct but that is more ofc thing once you start getting so are are we done with the liting I'm sorry that I brought you back to that 5030 we have voted on that one already what was the next one the uh well ERS vibration of dust um we just said uh you know we don't need to if we're going to have any any potential impacts listed in an ordinance you don't even want those in there because they really don't apply and there's no way to read it oh so we've got under oders on 12 and said the comme recommends that these regulations not be applicable to to agricultural activities that's that's under orders and uh that same recommendation is under vibrations and that same recommendation us I think if you want to vote to to take that uh recommendation to the council we can take care of those three action so to clarify for those watching those three dust ODS and vibrations right they will fall within the hours of operation of those bus and uh it will be okay all in favor okay you're in a r and and the last one is is signage really uh the only issue that uh we we really talked about with signage is is is the offsite yes and I I think that's an issue that that this committee wants the ulc to look into I think I think it's so if you don't have enough signage in your property because of geographical position the only thing that I can think of is one what Madam manager and I discussed over the phone was putting special you know signs like Swank Farms one mile away that's one and the other one the uh the the ability just like you negotiate parking for for an event where you can negotiate with a neighbor to put a sign right if you're way back there and you're going to have a a tomato paloa and say Simon I want to put a sign uh and your property and then you and I come to an agreement then you should be allowed I want to interject if you don't mind we're completely rewriting the sign code still well it came back to council once and we are waiting for the next round of revisions to go to council um what we currently have right now is um content oriented and you know it's not allowable constitutionally and so we will be including your recommendation for either attraction signs or you know something similar to that you're still without special event signs they're all still allowed your events are allowed now your question was a good one and I don't really have an answer for that because you have an event every Saturday for six months and so if each one of them is individual event and they are then you get to have a sign up for that event per the terms of our existing code ordinance I mean specifically the way it's being interpreted that's the best that's what we have discussed about we discussed that in past meetings I think it saves a lot of people driving past or around I agree I don't know so if we if we can come to an agreement where we can have small signs like they do historical Battle of whatever but instead of that AGR tourism lahi grows AGR tourism operator which you have to pay for that sign and out the town uh and it would say Swank Farms one mile up the road I think then you take it down in the sun yeah you if you're not operating you can go through it and then you can go back when you're backing businesss definitely the one people going through your property when you're down there right I so what we so you need to give us Direction but I know that we are looking at attraction signs in the sign Cod they say look into Alabama oh yeah you left me that message but I actually looked at Orlando and a couple of other places and I did find something in the toolkit did you see the tool kit I stole a tool kit however however the particular one yeah she mentioned you one far beyond it you have a lot of different variables based on State Road County Road so in our case we just have to tailor them yeah bring it down size them to our I I want to make another recommendation after you vote on this one if you don't mind it I think you're gonna be happy about it one so we voting on The signage now the onar signage is exempt correct correct for the talking about sign yeah so my recommendation is two twofold one to give the other tourism operator the ability to negotiate just like you would negotiate parking for an event to negotiate uh with a neighbor or or another land owner the ability to put your sign up and then the second one is the directional if you want to call them that directional signs uh and in in in a way that is close to your operation that would guy for example say put in one in okobi you know PL forms turn right at the at D Ro or and that cost will be carried by they operated not the town is is that a permanent sign or or a specific event sign that's a year round sign it's two f one is for the year round that you can take down when you don't have you're if you're not operating for six months there's no point having that sign for show for example he might have a sign that says fly farms uh Farmers Mar on up particular cookie cutter uh user friendly down friendly that doesn't interfere with traffic uh to help that people that might get lost go to business or my business would there be a would there be a charge no I just said that it will be that the operator is responsible for that cost what um what about maintenance what about yeah what about if we come up with with a prototype sign that they all have to look the same they all they will all have to look the same okay they will all have to look the same and I recommend just like they're doing the historical signs I recommend the AGR Tourism logo which is consistent to everything in the state so everyone knows it's an AG tourism sign corre they know I'm sorry now your recommendation yeah as I've been going back and forth with Ruth here and I was looking at outdoor lighting while you were talking um if you look at the second page of 50-30 outdoor lighting for prohibited outdoor lighting C it says the following types of outdoor lighting are not permitted in the town count well some of these things you might actually have because this Athletic Field lighting is exactly the definition that we looked at on the front and so we're talking about um wording to exempt you from this prohibited outdoor lighting agrotourism because you Agriculture and agrotourism because you might have Athletic Field lighting if you do have um equestrian riding areas yeah right exactly yeah we have to go back and take a look at that but my point when you said that and I started looking through here I started thinking to myself that seems like we need to make that exempt you have C3 too yeah exactly what I'm talking right but you're not but not exempt from that that's not allowed right exactly so just the I think Athletic Field Lighting in case you have you know a match or something like that um and we'll check the rodeos I just wanted to make sure that we didn't do that additionally on parking um we're going to modify some wording um on the intro to the parking because you may have trucks that come onto your property similar to Agricultural and we have a section in the code that we need to put in the introductory language I don't remember the code section that we need to say that Agri tourism is exempt the only thing agism is not except is for fire trucks the width and you already said that in the beginning yeah yeah there's some people that might be watching oh okay but I want to make sure that they understand here's what you said it's in your you have it in your your items I don't know if we voted on this we probably need to it says a requirement to use the Palm Beach County fire rescue access standards which is a 20 foot driveway with 13 feet 6 in clearance and 90ft turnaround circular driveway is okay the committee has recommended that Palm Beach County fire rescue Act standards be used by all Agri tourism businesses a recommendation for code amendment to require townwide use has not been made and the reason is because the town already has wider access than Palm Beach County in the code yeah we have 22 Yeah uhhuh gu some streets are 16 ft wide all right what's the next Mr um business tax receipts um oh that's that's that's going be I mean and I'm not that make sure you're really in ago tax receipts you're not required the agult and and I highly recommend that you they're publishing the the tool I highly recommend it it's very you know I got it from town Association normally you got to pay for it they gave it to us to use so there's a lot of information there that is very helpful so I highly recommend that you read it and everybody that's watching reads it uh because it talks about not only vprs but it talks about taxes what just TA in certain cases of what it's not they give you example and it's all there and it's about to be on the website right yes but one thing I want to point out about BTR you're exempt from a BTR that doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have to tell us and the reason why I say that is because there are other exemptions by the state of Florida besides agricultural exemptions from business tax receipts and what we ask people to do is file an exemption form with us so and the reason why is very simple when a neighbor calls and says well they're doing blah blah blah we say they're exempt from a business tax receipt but there's other things that are exempt from business tax receipt too like for instance if you're over 65 you don't have to have if you're a veteran you don't have to have there's a whole there's a list of six of them in the code so what I talked to Jim about and I think he's going to talk to you about is that um well we would want you to come put an exemption form in it's our way of protecting you but Jim had another idea and I'm saying hey let's let's talk about it and see what you think yeah first of all the proposed exemption form is on page 25 and it's just uh it's a it's a fee exemption but um filing the information as a as business but there's no Fe essentially the town has record the business and it's a it's a simple it's a simple B to the other the other thing that uh well let's let's go to the last thing in your agenda page do you want to finish talking about this oh sure yeah so I'm I'm I'm fine with the form except that I would like to interject a word the word the use voluntary yeah it is voluntary because you're exams be here voluntary because that's where all the sometimes misconception for example you know uh there's some people no you have to do it no you don't have to do it it's voluntary and if it said voluntary then you know and I understand that it makes it easier for the town I well well let me let me give you a scenario okay um huh I am well I'm gonna do a future a future one you open your AGR tourism Enterprises on your property and everybody says they start calling and making complaints to me have you seen what Simon has going on on his property and I say oh yes I know what he has going on on his property because he has a BTR exemption on file with us he's good and we're done okay if you don't and I don't know you and I don't know what's going on on your property I send code out there and they go hey Mr Fernandez we got to complain about you what are you doing here and you go well look I got a Bonafide AEG exemption I'm going to be exempt from this BTR and that code person will say you will be can you fill out the form so that's why yes it's voluntary precisely go it's voluntary and precisely go say hey but it's voluntary and that's why if you put here voluntary we eliminate the cost of sending that Cod enforcement guy out that is got so want work to he does he does have a lot to do his voluntary just like like you know uh and once again guys I'm trying to inform the people because there's a lot of misinformation there's some people that that are afraid to cut down a Australian pine on their fence hey guys I don't care if you are or not agriturism and agricultural on your fence think you have 20 F feet or 8 feet you have 30 feet for a fence waiver so you can do it without a permit you you fill out a waiver you fill out a waiver no we have an exemption and it's free and that's the one that we protect you when somebody calls and says they're clearing 40 acres on North Road which is about to happen by the way ex about the fence and the driveway the driveway and the fence have a waiver there's an exemption when you're taking down Exotics or your Agricultural and there's a limit on the number of natives that you can take down even if you are agricultural so then you have to get by the way what is that I think it's five isn't it Jim is isn't that odd the limit of native trees that you could take down if you're natives five that's what I thought it's five so have to get a permit if you go um well certain Pines are certain P yes Pine is Pine is considered native yeah a whole list in section 87 I would like to see I'm I don't have a problem with that and we'll put a little paragraph even about agar tourism well why we just um about a two3 of the way down says I applicant do here by test onal you read that let's just put another little box AG tourism bu check now check that there's a whole list of things yeah spouse person you're making you're making build it no still voluntary we're putting voluntary up on the top just oh we still putting voluntary yeah I'm done with that he just want that extra box in there yeah I'm fine with that the che box and that's that's why you're F filing yeah because you may not be one of the boxes on top of that yes no way I cannot say was a copy and paste but Jim has a good idea though Jim has a good idea of good ide this one's a very good one the next one we vote on this we agree on this one one okay okay the last item is the website okay and we we included um uh some information general information on on AG tourism and and we we understand that that that that will not necessarily be be the final item that goes on the website we're going to have to uh uh massage this put references to state law and things like that it'll take a while for us to do it but the other uh the other thing that that I was thinking other than that gets to my last end note Jim can I interrupt you one more time uh what is wrong with just putting into the website the following is the tool kit for an agism Business Without referencing and or complicating things as some information pleas what's wrong with it why can't we do that we could put it in there I think there's other probably other pieces of local local information that people want to know about well that's what I'm saying okay you can do this and then put the other local information and and the other local information that I'm suggesting is is that I have this final handout that's a town of loock of Hatchy grow t a business description and it's and it's like a little a little write up on on your individual business which um uh which uh as an incentive to complete this and F with the town we would also have have a section on the website where local businesses Ed tourism businesses would be referenced as a promotion item on the town's website in trade for for completing this form Ru no Ruth didn't come up with this Jim did no we talked about it the signage last time's your's of this if you it's solitary right yeah yes it is put it in the title tile I mean I think it's a good thing wants to operate I mean why would you want to be on the website of voluntary town of agism business description I I have a question Jim with that if you if you call it voluntary then doesn't it uh I mean you you want to do this trade with the agorism operators right say you want to be on the website you want the free advertising then you have to fill this out so I don't know that voluntary is really applicable I don't know that's it's like raffle you need buy acket you need have for everybody I don't think it's the same thing I don't think it's I understand what you're saying but I don't think it's the same thing but if we don't have something like this what do we put on the website you just you just put the name of the business without anything about what that's that's if you want that's if you want well I mean this this this gives a little information that we're going to take some take the goodies off this and put it on the website I you're you're you're uh let me see how do you translate this your uh good intentions take me to the dungeon of B ideas might not be the right but I have a little bit of DET that have why don't you just put why you just put the operator business and website you know instead of having to write a description just say there so much information here that it's partial size well yeah yeah I mean that's just that's just an example it doesn't have to be that that exact form even the AG tourism Association doesn't doesn't requir I I I always have to say no on this one okay that's fine that's fine just just a suggestion and uh or we could modify it to make it just put a couple basic pieces of information on yeah I think a reg I think register with the name of the business and the specialty I mean the the website the name of the business and theb if someone's interested they'll look click on the website and they'll read more information I think just a little bit about about what the business is that's fine no that was not a bad intention that was a good no no but it's and actually it it's I I had to kind of translate it and change it because it's of sexual nature so I had to so it might not come out the way it was intended oh the dungeon had some sexual all right never mind moving on all right so U that's all it doesn't pass and not in it cour yeah you want to you want to go ahead and and and draft it right now let yeah so we'll keep the name of the applicant the phone number the address Jim if you want to mark that y the email address the property control the number the owner oh that's and the property address that's good though I don't think we need the partial control and the description of aism activi perfect okay and that teaches all the dungeon yeah I think so the door okay good because in here you go over the same thing that we do I recommend that you read yeah we learn we learned from well yeah yeah and there will be um when we get to the point of of of having a an agour website you know that that's not going to happen without the c f so but this a state law this is what applies to us'll be plenty of of opportun 37 and 3 discuss look at that little table on the back hey Jim have have you looked into or is anybody talked about what um a local government or a government can put on its website when they're talking about private businesses we just we'll have to look into that too you know yeah yeah if there's something we can't put on there right right it's not a slam dunk it's a great idea I think but it's not a that might be a s dunk I didn't he follow that if we put something on the website that we're not supposed to we we'll still have to check to see you know what can we put on the website you know all that's all those things maybe some disclaimers things like that you see that there's stuff there that oh the form rental of of a facility is n taxable for a wedding but the table door so it's it's interest mean the table is this state this isn't everything we have there's more and there's more oh yeah it's definitely Kel don't forget we have the two fire rescue presentations which were rich with detail yes that's that's all I have any modifications or anything else you want us to put on the website all you got to do is send it to us and we'll try to build it in I think this has been a very productive group it is and I like to think that we that we will be and I hope that the council looks at it and and it's educated enough with LW of agism that will realize that you know they don't throw this over Point um the only other thing that I have a problem with in order to only one thing no no I'm talking about of the whole committee thing is that we cannot because of sunshine or whatever we cannot balce off ideas and this because things to improve the AG tourism and the help and and you know like I would have like to discuss Co coops uh stuff like that with my other uh AG tourism members so that is why the um former vice mayor wanted to get you guys Sunset it as soon as we got these recommendations yeah you and today when we finish this meeting you're Sunshine is over okay so you can talk to each other about anything you want they're also considering making the agrotourism um committee be a standing committee um and so you know tell all your friends well it has to be with the sunshine no it would be with the sunshine and they appoint people like they appoint to PCB and ulc and faac and like you were on some committees before a couple yeah I know a lot you said but um so but you guys I know do want to talk to each other and Mentor other people and all that so yeah so I I thank you because I think this was you know not easy and it was very thoughtful conversation and I enjoyed getting to work with you and I think that you um I don't know you put rud and Jim through some good calisthenics bruisers no I think this was good I really appreciate it no uhh you're consistent Jim thank you you brought this one to home I'm GL to see it so we can talk about whatever yeah you're done now but I'm gonna you got toour the meeting to be done yeah oh by the way let's not forget when you talk to the council do the same thing I did okay bye now thank you