##VIDEO ID:_CwR6HO6_G4## anyone are you forgotten have I'm here remember to bring your mics close so that Tanya and others listening at home can hear us done their ethics training okay so you're on Tanya perfect whenever you guys are ready let me know Jeff we're ready we're ready you're up all right okay can you see me and my screen no oh yes we can yes we can see you very in small and we the screen is big we can kind of read it say Lo asy grow Sunshine public record so we're good page 76 in your book okay did you guys find it so this is unfortunately the best of you is going to get we did some uh prep ahead of time so I apologize um members of the board good evening it's my pleasure to speak with you um tonight we're going to talk about sunshine public records and ethics uh this is going to be hopefully a refresher for those of you have who have served on boards before um if this is your first time serving on a board uh this is going to be um kind of a 30,000 foot view to give you the ability to spot issues and once you spot those issues please do feel free to contact either your staff liaison or the town attorney's office and or the local or state level commissions on ethics uh to address any questions that you may have so with that I'll jump right in there are three statutes that uh affect your service at as board members they are chapter 119 Florida Statutes which is the public records act chapter 286 Florida Statutes which is the Sunshine Law and chapter 112 Florida Statutes which is the uh code of ethics for public officials uh the chapter 112 is supplemented by the Palm Beach County Code of Ethics so going back to the beginning chapter 119 what is a public record a public record is any record made or received regarding Town business it does not matter the format of that record so it could be a text message it could be a social media post it could be emails or it could be discussion uh those Communications can be inal they can be as simple as liking a comment made by another board member um uh they could be something as or like and comment made about anything related to town business um so I I want you to just think about anytime that you send or create a document or recording um in relation to town business specifically in relation to your duties as a board member please I would advise you not to put anything in that document that you would not want to see on the front page of a newspaper separately um if you are transacting Town business using a private account um you are required to maintain those Communications such that if the town receives a public records request um the town should be able to go to you and say please provide these records and you should have them on hand um typically I do recommend that if you are going to be serving on a board that you create a separate email account for those Communications that way you know that you're always keeping those uh separate from your personal business um I realize that's not always possible but that that is my recommendation um so that's the 30,000 view of public records um any questions on that okay seeing none I'm going to move on to chapter 286 which is the Sunshine Law so for your purposes um you really want to make sure that you are not communicating with any fellow board member regarding business that is likely to come before your particular board um outside of a properly noticed public meeting so that includes text messages is um emails social media posts even liking someone else's um post that that's on your board could be considered um a discussion for purposes of the Sunshine Law so you want to avoid that um and it could be just even an informal conversation that you happen to see someone at a town event or you may happen to see someone out and about and you might strike up conversation if it leans anywhere towards matters that are likely to come before you for a decision you should end that discussion right then and there um I just also want to remind board members that this includes conversations that may happen up at the dis I know sometimes if board members get to a meeting early they may be um wanting to discuss something that's on the agenda for the day um you will have to wait until the meeting formally starts and um ensure that all members of the public can hear your discussions so the same thing applies if you're wanting to talk to your neighbor up there on the dis um you can't have any side conversations or um discussions about any matter that is pending before your board or likely to come before your board everything you talk about has to be audible to the public um so I just wanted to kind of put that out there um i' I've never met any of you before I've seen other board members do it in other towns and you know I've had to interrupt them and say please share your comments to the public at large so I just want to put that out there any questions about sunshine okay uh there are other components to the Sunshine Law but those really really tend to apply to staff in terms of making sure that meetings are properly noticed and that minutes are kept and that uh the option and that uh the requirement for um public comment is met um just as a reminder uh if you do violate the Sunshine Law there are um civil penalties associated with that if you knowingly and willfully violate the Sunshine Law there are criminal penalties potenti associated with that so um just wanted to remind you of that um the next statute like I said is going to be the the ethics statute chapter 112 and um chapter 112 sets forth rules regarding voting conflicts gifts reporting and business relationships um it also allows local governments um at the county level to create more stringent requirements and palom county has chosen to do so um and so in many cases not in many cases but in some cases the palom county code is more restrictive than the state law so if you have any questions that really should be your first line of analysis is this compliant with local code um any questions about that general information we're going to drill down and talk talk more about ethical issues seeing none I'm going to move on okay so pursuing to the pom County Code of Ethics public officials cannot use their public office or position to take or fail to take any action or influence others to take any action to do things that you know or should have known will result in your special Financial benefit um so in other words just as it says you can't use your position as a board member to take any action that will result in your special Financial benefit not something that applies broadly but specially to you or to close family members um the next uh bullet point there is in reference to basically it says you can't use your position to accept bribes you can't use your position to corruptly secure or attempt to secure a privilege benefit or exemption for yourself or anyone else and that does not have to be a special Financial benefit it just has to be a benefit um in addition to that you are restricted from entering into any contract or transaction for goods or services with the town this includ includes the public official's outside employer or any business that you may own and it as far as the town side it includes any person agency or entity acting on behalf of the Town um in addition to that you're um prohibited from directly or indirectly accepting travel expenses from a contractor vendor service provider bidder or proposer to the town um you're uh forbidden from agreeing to pay contingency fee to another person um and in addition to that um if you do have a conflict of interest under this first bullet point at the top um you're required to abstain from the vote and fill out a form called the form 8B um and not only must you abstain from the vote you're forbidden from participating in discussion on the matter so I'll just point out that this is one area where local code is more stringent than state law state law does have some Provisions that allow you to announce your conflict and participate in debate you are not allowed to do that in palach County um if you think you might have a voting conflict please do contact UM staff or get in touch with um the town attorney's office or either well or the local um Commission on ethic you can um if you have enough time ahead of the vote you can you may actually be able to obtain a formal opinion from the local board um otherwise uh these are things that are not well discussed on the Fly and they are they can be very uncomfortable when a conflict or potential conflict is brought up for the first time when you're sitting on the dice um so I just wanted to point that out um any question questions on this slide before I move on okay yeah who do we file the form 8B with you um you would provide it to your the clerk that is PR presiding over your meeting um and the town maintains those forms and you if you announce that you have a conflict you'll be provided the form to fill out and you'll fill that out before you leave the meeting that day technically the law gives you up to two weeks to do it but I think it's a good practice to fill it out that day um some attorneys advis that once you fill out that form you should actually leave the dis and um so that you're not influencing your fellow board members even with your body language or facial expressions um I think that is good practice um so we will provide that form for you when you indicate that there is a conflict or um any questions about that oh okay seeing none I will move to the next slide okay so these uh potential conflicting relationships involve not only yourself but people and entities close to you so that's what this slide is about obviously if you're going to be something's coming before the board that's going to inure to your special Financial benefit you know you have a conflict but what about people close to you well the law covers your spouse domestic partner household member dependants siblings step siblings child stepchild parent stepparent niece or nephew uncle or Aunt grandparent or grandchild and it also includes um those relationships of your spouse and domestic partner and it also includes the employer or business of any of those relatives um so again if you think there may be a vague connection to someone that you're related to just let us know we'll we'll figure it out ahead of time um uh it also includes your former customers and clients um and that means anyone that was a customer or client within the last 24 months even if you no longer work with them even if the the business relationship has concluded um there's a dollar threshold for that requirement to K to kick in that dollar threshold is $10,000 so if over the last 24 months you've received an aggregate of at least $10,000 from this particular client um you continue to have a conflict in relation to them and you should um not vote on any issue um that would go to their special financial gain any questions about that okay um there is also a provision for substantial debtors or creditors of the public official spouse or domestic partner um this does not include something like a mortgage or um bank note so yes was there a question okay not hearing anything okay um and it also includes if you are um participating in any Civic group group Union um social group charity Rel religious organization or other organization um where you your spouse or domestic partner is an officer or director not merely a member but one of those higher level officials um so the next um relevant section is on um gifts so public officials and that includes you as board members are not allowed to accept any gift from a vendor or lobbyist of the Town um that is worth more than $100 if you accept a gift from a lobbyist or a vendor of the town that is worth um between $25 and $100 you are required to fill out a form and report that that form is available on the Florida Commission on ethics website and that would be uh filed with the Florida Commission on ethics with a copy given to the Palm Beach County Commission on ethics um I will uh send out an email kind of giving you some useful tips resources websites um so you'll get a link to the state Commission on ethics and um the page for different forms um in addition to that um you cannot knowingly solicit a gift of any value from any person or business entity whether that be a lobbyist or otherwise um that um lobbyists vendor Etc of the town um where that gift is for your personal benefit or the benefit of any relative or household member so the distinction between this and the first bullet point is that you can be given a gift that you didn't ask for um but you can't knowingly solicit a gift from a vendor lobbyist um or anyone in that realm of people listed in that particular bullet point um you are allowed to accept gifts in general um from non- lobbyists uh you can accept a gift um in any amount um as long as you're not accepting it for a corrupt purpose meaning as long as someone is not giving you that gift because they're asking you to take an action as a board member or to refrain from taking an action as a board member M or to um violate a legal Duty that you may have as a board member um if you do receive a gift from a non- lobbyist that is over $100 in value um you do have to report that gift again there's a separate form um for reporting that gift available with the Florida Commission on ethics you would fill out that form and also dual fil it with the local Commission on ethics um the $100 reporting requirement is done um quarterly you're to report gifts over $100 each quarter um there are exceptions so basically one of those big exceptions is if the gift came from a relative and it's over $100 you do not have to report it if you did not receive any gifts over $100 within the last quarter you do not have to file any sort of report um I guess the best example I could give is if you um had a wedding and you had maybe non-relatives or business associates friends Etc um give you gifts you would report all of those gifts that were over $100 in value as part of your quarterly um gift report um another tip is that if you do receive a gift over $100 that would normally be reportable you are allowed by law to pay down the value of that gift so you could pay back um The Giver of the gift um enough money to bring the value down under $100 and then you would not need to report that gift any questions about that okay seeing none um I will I included these uh links here this is a training for the state and this is a training for the county some of you may have already done the counting the county training it's my understanding that the this the town clerk did send out um some links for that um okay so in addition to the state ethics code and the local ethics code um the code of ordinances of the town of lox haty Groves has its own ethics code um there is a lot of overlap um but I'll just kind of touch on some Basics here um public officers which includes board members are forbidden to misuse their officer position um to seek or accept a personal gain or profit um or unwarranted favor or privilege for yourself or any other relative um you're forbidden to improperly influence or in or attempt to influence any other public officer um in addition to that public officer shall not engage in solicit or negot neate for or promise to accept private employment or render services for private interests or conduct a private business when those activities create a conflict with the proper discharge of your official duties you're also uh forbidden to have contact in any form or engage in communication or discussion with applicants petitioners or their agents or Representatives seeking action or other relief from Town Council on matters related to a pending application or other petition this particular provision is under review by the Town Council right now um and it is possible that that law will change um unless and until it does you must still abide by it um finally the town code uh forbids public officers from investing or holding any investment directly or indirectly in any Financial business commercial or otherwise private transaction that creates a conflict with your official duties any questions about that okay um some more do Nots um public officials shall not directly or indirectly solicit except or receive any gift um in any form if it could reasonably be inferred that the gift was intended to influence your performance of your official duties or if the gift was intended to serve as an inducement for an improper action or as a reward not other not otherwise permitted by state law so this particular War this particular prohibition basically tracks um state and local law um you also cannot use the provisions of the ethics code to further frivolous claims against one another um you cannot KN knowingly violate any federal state local law rule or regulation um you cannot disclose information acquired um through your role as a public officer um or use confidential information for your own personal benefit um and that I let me make sure I say that correctly you cannot disclose confidential information acquired in Your Capacity as a public officer and you cannot use that confidential information um for your personal benefit um in addition to that you're not permitted to influence pedal or use your position uh to gain favors or benefits that are inconsistent with the town policy and really applicable state law so again that's another provision that kind of just mirrors state level law and local um that is the 30,000 foot overview again I just wanted to kind of give you a basic um rundown of what is um expected of you and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have thank you Tanya does anybody have any questions Manish all right could you explain to us you said you use the term public officials are we public officials we are volunteer unpaid appointed people but just wanted to understand the legal language are we considered public officials yes sir that is a great question so um chapter 112 Florida Statutes uh defines public officials to include members of advisory boards uh which you all are thank you second question is um for the sake of efficiency one of the things we noticed um is that let's say we have meeting today and after this meeting I would like to circulate my comments or observations that were discussed with the rest of the committee members so scenario one can I send that observation or comments in an email to all of the colleagues and B if they read it can they add their comments and send back in other words we want to summarize our Collective committee um comments or actions efficiently so what what would you suggest is the best method to collaborate on the things that are already discussed and we want to share our after meeting points with one another so I would advise that you not do that um because one of the issues with the Sunshine Law is that it forbids discussion so sending out a communication and soliciting comments and that back and forth is going to be considered discussion even though it's a matter that you you're saying you're looking back on like whatever happened at this meeting I'm gonna say there's a good likelihood that whatever is discussed at this meeting might come up again in the future and I would not want to put any of you in that position where someone brings up an email chain and says hey what happened here um so I would definitely not advise that for efficiency what I would say is if there's something um that happened in this meeting and you think about it when you leave definitely um bring it up during the discussion section of the next meeting or bring it up before you leave the dis today um to make sure that you that whatever you want to hash out is fully hashed out but I would not advise um position papers or opinions to be posted or sent via email as a matter of fact I have some clients that disable the reply all functions um when sending out even scheduling emails to board members because they want to make sure that there is no cross talk so let me understand it if that email is a public record let's say I send that email to the town staff and then they forward it to the committee members and they are the intermediaries and this is a public record is it still a sunshine yes sir it is unfortunately um well let me finish Jeff and and then you can jump in so basically um you can't use an intermediary to um pass along information that you would not otherwise have been able to say yourself under the Sunshine Law so if the Sunshine Law forbids you from saying this directly to a board member you cannot use a staff member or a third party to be a conduit let me stop you for a second what I'm saying is if that email is a public record it's printed it's posted it's open to public I I'm trying to have some difficulty why is it why is it still a violation help me understand the logic yes sir so they're actually laws two separate laws there's there's a Sunshine Law which operates under one set of legal elements and then there is the public records law that operates under another set of legal elements so may have a situation let's say worst case scenario and I hope this never happens two board members are emailing one another about a matter that is on tomorrow's agenda um someone can say I want all the emails of all the board members and those are public record and they have to be turned over so it is true it is public record but it ALS it is also true that those Communications are forbidden under the Sunshine Law so it's can I stop you for a second in the interest of time so let's say a group like us how do they collaborate in other words after this meeting whatever points we have we want to create a comprehensive Collective committee memorandum or summary of the collective discussions how do other boards do that you would have to wait till the next meeting and tell the board members um Jeff go ahead jump in I was going to say we schedule another meeting that's the that's the way you work together so if you wanted to make a presentation before the the board um what we would do is say Okay um Committee Member is going to make a presentation um and share some information and we would help you do that but that has to happen at a meeting okay can I as a board member of faac share my comments with the council or some other Committee Member you can you can share with the council you can share it with other board I see you know but you can not share it with another Committee Member outside of the meeting setting Wonder only do it with your board member no you can when it comes to going what I'll call up the the chain um if you wanted to talk to any council member not NE not just the one that uh appointed you you are able to talk to all of the council members um you if there is a um another board uh that is dealing with a subject you can talk to them individually um and the same thing with the council members you can talk to them individually outside of a meeting share your Viewpoint um you can come to uh a meeting share your Viewpoint unless you have been designated by this board as a spokesman to present the board's perspective at a council meeting or whatever um you should make it clear that you are if you're at a meet at another public meeting that you are appearing on your own behalf and not on behalf of the board unless you've been specifically designated by this board um to do that um so but thank you well that clears it thank you I'm good um I have a question so I think Mish might be trying to say this too is can we communicate with staff yes you can you can communicate with so he has issued he can contact the project coordinator yes but I cannot I cannot then go to each of you and say no but you has a great idea let me share it with you you can bring it up at the next I can I can say that is something that we should agenda um and discuss at the next meeting basically can't talk to One ourselves okay got it thank you are there any other about about about this business you can uh you can go out and play golf together and not talk about what's coming before this board you can talk about you know the hole-in one that you had you can watch a football game together all those kind of things you just can't talk about this it's not that you can't be friends we can sit next to each other you don't have to run opposite direction when you see one another no any other questions yeah I wanted to follow up on uh the chapter 119 you you in uh I think you you recommended we get a separate email uh to to uh how all our communication with back and forth with the towns I I think that's a good practice I I can only say that's what I would do you don't have to though um just make sure you're not deleting uh any Communications that you may have let's say U members of the public are emailing you with their opinion or whatever you need to keep those emails yeah uh I know my email I can create separate folders and all the email pertaining to the city they it goes there that works well too what however whatever is easier for you for your organizational purposes as long as you're keeping them and as long long as they're accessible if the town needs them in the event of a public records request okay thanks in in general uh you never know what's going to happen but in general there's not there's not a big crowd out here I'm sure there's Millions watching at home but I I I think it's fair to say that there is not much email correspondence will go to you directly from the public as a member of the the fact you will get email correspondant from staff uh you should not get email corresponden from each other and there may be an occasion where some member of the public is so enamored or disgusted with whatever you set up here that they might send you a note but those are those are rare circumstances I'm not saying that um the advice is not good uh but in general this board I don't think it'ss a a lot of email from um outside of town staff you never know I I like to I'm I'm very cautious that's my that's my emmo okay thank you Tanya I think we're done thank you so much all right it's been a pleasure thank you thanks Tanya oh just one one more thing Tanya um to remind them this did not count as your official ethics training you still have to to do that annual um ethics training which you can do in person online there's a number of ways online at those two sites that are provided within your materials are the easiest way to do it uh the town clerk uh will be reminding you of that obligation so that uh you do it on a basis so so when we complete it does it give us like a certificate and we got send it to you guys yep you'll provide that to us and we'll keep it and they'll keep it in the okay um moving on then are we all done anything else da no we can see on the big screen now yeah unfortunately for y'all you can see me well okay I'm G to put you out of your misery thank you very very much for your patience with me it's been a pleasure to speak with you as a board thank you so now we're moving on to number two um well it's number one which was originally number one yeah um and that's gonna be Jeff no that's not Jeff no it says Jeff CTS from you well it's from me but it's just an introduction fiscal year third quarter Financial words that's Chris suggest interesting we put FY 2025 budget first because that's the major item and our council is already discussing FY 2024 is almost done and can we focus on 2025 first and then go to 2024 that's okay you want to make a motion to move make a motion to focus on more strategic FY 2025 budget and then yes come to it at 2024 later if just second that thank you all all in do you have a all in favor of moving 202 two which is three number two just moving 2025 budget up all in favor I I opposed motion passes so we're gonna go ahead and then do sort of feels like you're doing those directions and you can guys oh I want to see what it's like if I go here first my exercise jumping up and down here chair went down so I'm order so now we go to um now it's me no that's you okay so what page is that on uh try page four which is the the memorandum that gives you the overview oh okay I hope you have had a chance to read it I'm not going to go through it verbatim I'm just going to hit the highlights here uh we had a we at our last meeting we discussed proposed millage rates um and the uh information that you all provided was provided to to council they established the the trim which is the highest level that you can go to um as far as assessments and the millage rate they said we want the potential to go up to 4.0 Ms we want the potential to go up to $250 per acre of Road and drainage assessment and we want the potential of uh Solid Waste being at $450 per unit which would be an increase of $50 over the current race and I want to emphasize that they talked about it as potential and to give them flexibility to deal with what we had identified for you at your previous meeting as a funding shortfall um on what we anticipated the proposed budget to be of $600,000 if we left the um rates at their current status of three Mills um for uh 20 uh $200 for the road and drainage um and uh the $400 per unit so we had identified that um uh they said okay let's give us the flexibility to to deal with this there's variations on how you can get there what we have proposed here and when I say we that's the town manager and and staff we have proposed a balanced budget uh with an adalum um rate of three Mills a road and drainage assessment of $250 per acre um and a solid waste assessment of $450 they're included in there is a capital in um Improvement plan uh that has a $2 2.54 million budget uh the general fund is balanced at 4.26 one million within the um within the general fund there is a proposed transfer to the capital Improvement um plan of 600 $569,000 um and $221,000 to uh the road and drainage um fund if you'll remember our discussion about the $600,000 was the $600,000 Gap that we had identified was in that road and drainage fund um under the current uh revenues within 105 the road and drainage fund there was a 1.8 million roughly $1.8 million that we get and we were anticipating a 2.4 million doll operating budget in that fund um the road and drainage fund is balanced at $2 2.43 two million um that includes the $50 of rate increase which generates about $374,000 uh and then you have the 220 $1,000 transfer from general fund to uh the road and drainage fund that's how we Cobble together the 600,000 roughly $600,000 Gap that we had previously identified um and in the solid waste fund um we show a balance fund at $720,000 it is in the solid waste fund that's the only place that we are talking about using any of the accumulated reserves um we proposed to use $61,900 to balance the solid waste fund we are not as we have we are not proposing to transfer any monies from the general fund to uh the solid waste fund that has been the practice in the in the past years um but because of our current circumstance we want the ideas to have these funds as much as possible stand on their stand on their own in order to to balance they have been previously as a general statement Capital Improvement plan that we have had in the past has been um funded by windfall money there was the arpa money um there is grant money um and there was accumulated reserves from the road and drainage fund and the general fund that provided the funds for that in addition in past years and this year when we're talking about the gas tax funds um those will be transferred those are proposed to be transferred to the capital Improvement um plan and uh to the road and drainage fund to be used for Road and drainage improvements in accordance with the the state statute now um The Lost fund or the ctax fund um that is once again being proposed all those all the money generated there to go to support C Capital uh but we are at a point in time now where we do not have sufficient um accumulated revenues to to draw from uh our fund balance our fund balances under this proposed plan all of them will continue to exceed uh the 25% level that has been established with ex with the exception of the Lost and the gas tax where all of those funds are transferred to other things but with respect to Road and drainage um your general fund and the uh Solid Waste fund all of those funds will have at least are plan to and we think we'll have at least 25% in the reserves I believe the general fund Reserve balance will be about 36% and we're not suggesting that we go into that we suggesting that the funding uh be done um in the manner set forth here um one of the the tables that we have provided to you and to the the council um explores the possibility of what if the millage rate is at 3.1 and um what would you need in a in an assessment uh Road and drainage assessment to meet that combined $3.75 million of Revenue that we think we need 16 17 that is in the back I wasn't going to go over that right now I'm just summarizing for you what I would so that's the general situation what I want to do is go over the um Capital plan unless you've got questions about uh those General statements that I made and I'll be happy to take this as you go down here uh Jeff uh what remind what the current rates are currently this fiscal year the current the current rates are um 3 mil for the adalum $200 per acre for the road and drainage fund and $400 for the solid waste fund thank you all right so if you go to wait wait wait I'm sorry good remember to speak into your mics if you okay maybe this is a good time to try that thing it's better to show something than to just talk because now that we know we can't share comments and all that and we know we have a town meeting next week another Workshop next week so I think it'll be much more efficient if I show share some data with you and my friends here on a screen so can I please do that could you give me the I will want to share my comments by showing you some analysis the numbers okay um project my screen here could you give me that uh connector for a second we can we can try but I I can move here if you like as I was thinking um as I was thinking about it the one the one problem I think we run into um when we use this we will We it won't go onto the screen there yeah can I send it to you you can uh put it on your screen is that possible I think we can get it up on on this screen here okay do you have a flash drive with you are you doing that through a flash drive I have a be good here I'm not sure what else is on this but oh he's G she's one yeah is it possible for you to just email it over 64 gigabytes let me ask you this can you listen and do that at the same time or is it just gonna take a minute question why he setting that up does anybody else have a question yeah please go ahead I don't know have you know have we talked about I know it's been thrown around and it was in the past commercial taxing district we have a commercial District do we have a separate can we tax the commercial District separately no well other places have they what they what they generally what you're usually talking about is um a CRA a community redevelopment agency and with a community redevelopment agency you can tax a blighted well the C the CRA gets the incremental tax revenues um not just from the the town but from the county to um improve a blad area you have to go through a process declare an area of blad but that is not going to be our new um so there's no way to create a separate taxing district because when you when you do the Mills when you do the Mills the Mills affect um commercial but they don't affect the nonprofits and the people that maybe don't pay as much taxes um the assessments could uh um affect everybody with land even the nonprofits pay an assessment the only one who doesn't is a school um and that's for roads and drainage and it's like it's but the problem is there are some people that you know when you look at the assessments the people with five acres pay more than the person that has you know so it itef it'ss that way but that was my my thought there's no way to add some type of District or some type of Revenue or area how do how do other towns do it they they do it through all right Chris I'll let you take a shot at this I don't think we could do it here on I'm trying to think of ways to alleviate it off the residents and if you're talking about a CRA that has be done through the county because we're a chartered County approval but that wouldn't apply so cras are for blighted areas light's not what you necessarily might think of it actually one of the definitions of light is bad parking so you can find areas of you know pretty good taxing efforts but they're considered blighted because they don't uh have enough parking I think Coral Springs is probably most noted for that sorry um you can in fact have a special district that has a different millage rate higher millage rate than the rest of the town that you're still limited to 10 ms there it's a uh it's it's a I'm trying to think how to phrase it Plantation actually has one they call it their Midtown uh Plantation effort they ly I think about a mill in that area but the money has to be spent in that area yeah that's like the Downtown Development Authority and those kind of things right so what but it's a it is a it is a taxing district it is a military that you Levy there but and you have a separate board I'm I'm sorry to cut you off but the the the reason I'm I'm cutting you off is because what you were what you're you're looking at and I'm not saying it's a bad idea or anything like that but what you are looking at is most of our commercial areas are uh recently new vintage up along Southern Boulevard that's what you're talking about in the northern end of of town going along with what Chris says we all know that commercial generates higher so you could generate a Milly trade and and what Chris just indicated with respect to those areas is when you create that separate body and they get to assess an additional Mill or something like that they have to spend the money in that area it doesn't get dispersed to the rest of of town so they're in realistically realistic basically what you're I think what you're getting at is the millage will have a greater impact on Commercial and newly transferred properties um then the assessment will when you go to those balancing things uh the commercial is more impacted so if you wanted to structure um a funding plan that tried to rely as much as possible on the commercial areas and the commercial property um you would look more to a millage increase versus a um an assessment increase okay so let me ask you a question why he's um he's still doing that so we all know generally speaking that when commercial comes in and I've watched the stat the statistics go more crime occurs in commercial districts we have watched our crime go up and our Sheriff's departments s or uh but what we pay the sheriff's department is directly related to calls for service and as the calls for service go up the sheriff and the fire rescue fluctuate what they charge us so that could be something because if when you have a commercial we are actually as residents saddled with that increase in fees paid to our Public Safety based on the increase caused by commercial could we not do I hear your I I hear your that millage be used in that district for Public Safety increase or for traffic increase or for the issue with we're having something lighting um traffic lights okay I I hear I hear your is it possible that's my asking Poss I hear your theory on those things first of all are Sheriff's contract is not dependent on the number of calls that's not what it's based on it doesn't go up and down on that basis it's a negotiated contract um and the increase in internally somebody May justify um the increase in that way but that's not the way the contract is set up um so you would also then have to under what you're talking about do an analysis as to whether the statements you made are just are true um so there is uh there is I don't I don't think it is a worthwhile Endeavor and it is certainly not possible for this year to get anything like that set up um I just is it worth exploring is that my option it worth exploring get the off my offthe cuff answer is no because you have a brand new area we do not have to my knowledge um and we you know there hasn't to my knowledge uh been a lot of police activity um up at those shopping centers it is increased if you look at the if you don't think it's worth I just I mean I'm saying when you when see one of the thing one of the things that you're you're talking about when you and and it's it's not I'm not saying it's a bad idea or anything like that but you asked me whether or not I thought it was worth it yeah for us to to seriously investigate that and put time and effort into it costs money you know um and got to be provided to us Cassie brought up a very good point but can fire rescue and the Sheriff's Office given to us see if it has increased because of commercial def we can we can we can do that over the course of the the year we get provided reports on a on a monthly and a quarter quarterly basis um but you know because in general as us as homeowners we don't really see it right and and well it's it is all available but but what I'm telling you right here I think um last year we paid 66 $1,000 um for the sheriff the sheriff is going up um 1% uh 600 to $668,000 the increase is not that much and that's what I'm saying going to the point of you know they didn't do it based on oh there's a lot more crime or anything like that that was not part of the analysis or discussion we have entered into a three-year agreement with them that sets the the rates for increase um we'll be happy to provide those reports to to the committee and perhaps discuss them down the road um it's not g to be wor in order to do that kind of presentation even if you're just talking about staff time um you're talking you know it's a $10,000 investment easy so so uh correct me if I'm wrong based on what you told her earlier even if it was approved any funds would be used specifically in that area only the the the kind of District that Chris was talking about um yes and I do understand how um somebody could make an argument that that those folks should therefore pay greater percentage of the uh of the uh contract with the sheriff and so maybe that's a way of Shifting revenue and those kind of things but there's a lot of analysis and I don't see a lot of benefit can go in that direction great well thank you does anybody go ahead Manish okay thank you so first of all I have to say that we got these numbers lot of numbers yesterday late it took me a little bit of a time let's say all nighter to put something together so I hope it's worth everyone's time I'm very proud of it so let's talk about I think Miss sui and all of the friends here brought a good point which is one of our mandates is to make sure everybody pays their fair share of taxes so I'm going to talk about three things 2025 where the money comes from where is it going I'm going to talk about where this train is heading so 2025 is our next station and long-term plan where is this train heading so our residents and our council members understand where we are going and what to do with it and then as one of the things we just discussed what are the risks Financial risks and what are the opportunities for us so let's get started here before I bore you with some numbers just to give you a little bit of an architect I took the revenue of each fund general fund and I look at the I also looked at the revenue of the prior year for each fund then I looked at the expense projected for this year and the last year and then I compared what happened where is the money going what changed and then I looked at the Surplus Surplus and deficient analysis and then I studied the balance sheet to basically understand where the cash is coming from and where the cash is going and I have some interesting observations and you know hopefully this will be a good use of our time so let's look at the big picture first 2025 so our 2025 Revenue if I combine so our money comes from general fund which you know is the main Town's operations here and then Road and drainage fund which is based on the assessment $200 is the current rate we are asking for $200 $150 uh Capital Improvement project Solid Waste uh op local sales tax and so forth so if you sum this all up in 2025 we will be generating projected to generate with all these increases which we talked about uh millage rate I will talk to you in a second but leave the millage rate the same three Mills uh but we increase the assessment to 250 $ per acre and we increase the garbage collection rate to 450 this is our Revenue so as you can see 51% comes from general fund 23% from Road and drainage those are the major sources of revenue now let's look at where that fund is going to be deployed general fund the one that is main operating uh operations of the business 39% here but it then fund the other parts of the business which is roads and drainage fund and capital Improvement project now this little green pie that you see Capital Improvement project this is a major situation that we need to pay attention to and that gets to my next point where this train is heading because and this is not a fault of anyone but our town for years have been underfunded so this is a sharp hockey stick increase and unknown unkknown on what our infrastructure can fail if there is a hurricane we get destroyed what culs have to be repaired roads have to be repaired all those things you can think in your mind can go in this bucket and there is already town and our engineer is here our main engineer we would love to hear the thoughts but they have put together a a process and a road map for the next five years I would remind you that as faac it's not just this year or next year but it is the next five years plan Capital plan that we are looking at so so let's keep that in mind for a second so let's talk a little bit about what's going on in the general fund and then I will go through each of these funds so general fund um expenses and revenues first just look at what is happening this 2025 4 .26 revenue and 3.47 expenses and if you compare this to uh last year we are very good we are generating $537,000 extra but where is this extra coming from extra is coming from increasing taxes on our town residents so one of the things I would like to discuss with all of you today is which Missi brought up what are the other ways without without burdening our hardworking tax payers what are the other ways to bring that Revenue so Revenue increases by 14% now one thing you will uh talk about is the millage millage so let me give you a little bit of analysis here Palm Beach County property values our if let's not even think about Palm Beach County lahi property values increase by 133% that's a fact and 133% so if we are charging three millage point we keep it the same our Revenue goes up by 13% so without even increasing millage we are increasing taxes so our people are going to wake up and their taxes will be increased Point number one point number two is Palm Beach County because they realize that Florida is on fire people property values are increasing they in fact reduce their 2024 millage rate from 4 4.75 to 4.5 so they decreased it by 4.7% uh% but in spite of that their revenue is still up because property values went up by so much they are still making 9.6% more revenue from millage and taxes whereas we are going to increase it by 14% so this 14% is also coming from this uh rate that we are going to increase on our Farmers to increase from $200 per acre to 250 $50 per acre so let's think about it I am a farmer I have 10 acres I'm doing nothing versus a commercial who has little area but they are doing a lot of thing making a lot of money they may not get that increment that I as a farmer or someone else people equestrian will get hit with that increment in their taxes so as we just discussed how can we make sure that who is going to use that extra service or extra product of our town and who's paying for it so let's talk about who is using it and who's paying for it so our expenses let's look at our expenses for 2025 3.4 million our expenses have gone up by $623,000 and this is because there is a 16% increase in salary and there is a 64% increase in salaries of building and Planning Department salaries 16% increase in the salaries of the town staff I'm just talking about the town staff 64% increase in the salaries of the building and planning department which is let's talk talk about it's not a bad thing it may be a good thing because of town is growing and all those things are happening but what it is doing is that since this is our income producing Department because expenses have gone much higher than the revenue increase our net Surplus is much lower than the last year in fact we are making 86,000 less than the last year so the question becomes why is Staff increasing so I think one explan and I would love to hear their comments in a second but let's think of a second if the staff is increasing because you are going to provide extra services to the residents like new buildings new inspections new permits and those things are called cost recovery so let's make sure we are recovering our cost properly now another thing we just talked in the last meeting was RVs so we are adding new regulations are we assessment side assessment are we garbage disposal and all those things so are the are we recovering enough cost from all these new initiatives so that it does not add tax burdens to those people people who have been here for years and years their property values are going up beautiful but their bank accounts cash doesn't go up but they have to pay more taxes just because someone else decided a commercial area decided to put $10 million in that mall or someone else decided to build a beautiful something that is creating good good business for them we're very happy but let's make sure they carry that uh tax increment and not the people who have been here you know residents and others so so that's the point on the general fund I can stop here and take your comments or I can complete the picture and then take the comments up to you good going keep going okay let's go let's look at the next fund this is called Road and drainage fund Road and drainage fund money comes in from our um Road and drainage assessments again a tax on our residents and I would like to make a small note here do you know that thanks to this committee and yours truly we will be making 100,000 in extra interest income because lot of cash is now kept in the interest accounts which was not the case in the last year so we should all credit ourselves to bring additional 100K to start but there is additional 100k from the interest income and there is a increment tax increase from $200 to $250 per acre which results in 47,000 extra Revenue to the town 27% increase and our expenses so what do these people do they do the maintenance of the roads and maintenance of the canals and please correct me if I'm wrong but mostly that's the work and their expenses are going down by 7% and why is that because we have paved roads and we have bought lot of um lot of trucks and lot of vehicles which means we don't have to pay rents and leases so there is a road maintenance decrease there is a rental lease decrease which is a big amount but there is increase in Staffing and there is increase in Professional Services so again the question becomes yes maybe some vendor costs are decreasing because we are hiring full-time staff here but the point is that our expenses are still 7% higher even though road maintenance costs have decreased rental leases have decreased because we have bought lot of equipment but in a nutshell we are in a deficit of $489,000 so Road and drainage is is is in a deficient because it's funded by our main fund which we just talked about our general fund property values property values pay for some of the road and drainage maintenance the third fund is capital Improvement fund this is where I'm going to talk about long-term view here but this fund generated $250,000 less than the last year and this is because 250k FEMA res Grant was a one-time thing but this is our most expensive and most risky part of the package here just if I could interrupt yes the capital Improvement plan does not generate any funds it receives funds it receives funds from certain sources um which might include Grant might include transfers from other funds um but it does not generate any money I just I just I don't want I don't want us to get misleaded with our our uh understood let me be more technical when I say money is received intragovernmental Revenue let's use the word intragovernmental meaning we pay a lot of money to County we pay a lot of money to the state and they throw us some change here is your thing so we are getting this money from the county in the state let's put it this way or federal government if you're lucky so the pro problem here is the following um last year we spent I don't know if this is true because we discussed some of the roads are on hold some are starting next month in 2024 $2.6 million would be spent or are being spent this year less than that 324,000 less no you're that's not true and I and I apologize there what you have to what you have to look at is the CIP plan I think for 20 before was uh in front of you um the CIP plan for last year was 3.7 3 3 3.7 33643 is that correct that's the correct number um and in addition there was I'm sorry it was yes I'm talking about just on the capital Improvement the Capital Improvements for last for 2024 was uh is we still have one quarter yes I know um it is if you look right here at this handout here what is it okay that is in front of you and the amount of money um that we balanced the the the CIP was 4.4 35437 um but there was the there was money carried over and projects carried over from the previous year um so that there were about $3.8 million in actual expenses associated with last year or this year's Capital Improvement plan so what is the net net for 2024 is that 443 5437 no it's a 44 minus the 57 6399 5 sorry what five what is that number five try that number oh 576 399 yeah so it's the 4.4 minus the 3 should be about 37 3.8 okay even better all right we got it so we are spending $1.6 million less beautiful but where is this train heading this is the budget outlay for the next five years two 2025 is 2.25 2.25 million as you see here 2026 is 7.7 million 2027 is 22 million 2028 is 21 million what I'm saying is there is a $100 million sort of a big plan which I know is still a guesstimate but this is something I would like us to think about not just next train station but how how are we going to fill this massive shortfall of capital plant spending that is being T through because a lot of our infrastructure is old some of that is failing right today some of that some of it is expected to fail next year but there is other sort of structures that they think needs to be repaired in the next four to five years so we should we will talk a little bit about that but let me complete this picture first so we are spending 42% less than the last year which is a good thing for now because we are going to balance the budget in a second solid wased our solid based is going from 400 to $450,000 and that is bringing additional $76,000 so another tax bill for our residents but let's think about how did that happen so 698,000 was the last year spend on the garbage this year 72 20,000 there is a $61,000 difference and the reason for that is I think and I would love to hear is that there's an increase in the contract cost per increase in the contract cost so the question is what I would like us to discuss who pays for it are the current residents pay for the increase in garbage collection or should we the beautiful RV people who are coming or renters who are coming who are going to generate garbage there is no discussion by the Council on what is the garbage removal fee RV removal trash removal fee so who is paying for that extra trash where does it come from but this is another tax hit but as we just understood it's this this is actually balancing the budget because there's more cost on the contract we have been actually taking money from the general fund and and compensating it for it if you see last year 2024 still year is not done it will be done in September this year we only generated $581,000 but we ended up paying Solid Waste Authority 698,000 so we have been subsidizing garbage collection from our general fund so this poor fund is paying for all those things which is okay but let's think about balancing the budgets here and who should pay then there is um sales tax which we get a little Penny from everything that's almost the same it may go away it may not go away we we don't know yet Transportation fund and so forth those things haven't changed so all in all if you sum it all up all the revenue I looked at the balance sheet and all the cost 8.8 there is still $528,000 missing this is a mystery to me so my question is how where is this $528,000 coming in question one question two is if let's go fund by fund general fund if we as a faac what are your views on increasing the taxes on the farmers who have land whether they are here for one year or 10 year or 20 years paying for as you see the where is the use of those funds going roads solid waste and maintenance of the canals and stuff that's where that money is going so question discussions I will stop here for a second and we'll go through it in a little bit later on the opportunities and risks so just to summarize one second before I go here are my suggestions but I don't want to influence your thoughts on this cost recovery of services are we doing proper accounting if we are adding so much staff in the building departments planning department Engineers staff in the town are we recovering their cost from the services that we providing commercial we just Missi and others just discussed this point if we can't charge commercial directly can we charge if somebody goes in and buy gas or buy you know from a big you know uh public store something can we add a s charge can we uh add a small 1 cent you know RV guest fee some percent on the rent can our RV regulations are we generating enough income from our RV regulations or are we going to end up hiring more staff and have other taxpayers take the heat here so who's going to pay for this extra RV work that is coming our way checking the site checking the RV enforcements and this and that I haven't seen the RV economic analysis as we speak and this is 2025 budget so where is that next renters renters these are the people who are renting and I love you know sure if somebody wants to rent God bless them but how are we collecting tax from all that rent renters can we do a renter surcharge those are so my point is who's using the roads who's using the services and who's ended up paying for it that's the key question here and then finally there's a huge gap so let's say this 520,000 is the gap we still have to dive into some budget and pull it out meaning our reserves are going to go down we are not building any reserves even if this 528,000 doesn't exist we are spending with these increased taxes whatever we are we are basically spending everything so if there is a hurricane God forbid two hurricane one after the other I have no idea where is the backup for this town and I know there is a big plan I know there is a big plan down the line 7,000 20 million 7 million 20 million but we need to be sure as a responsible committee that we have enough funds in case of a hurricane or two hurricanes side by side that we have enough money put aside so what is the contingency I would love to hear your thoughts I'll stop here I have consumed a lot of your time so my time is up let me let me let me let me say a few things and you went through an awful lot there um thank you and uh you're is that good is that helpful you're I would I would I would love to to to to see it and discuss it with you we're not going to do a I can't do a f minute analysis I totally you even breathe this day in and day out I took your book and iated yeah and I totally reject the idea that there's missing $528,000 but I'm I'm not gonna be able to based on your rendition of that to say oh here here it is but there's a there's a couple things first of all um let's talk about uh the public works department there is no increase in Staff last year here um uh the council um approved 13 people um and with all deference to to to Richard and to Craig and I really have to apologize for Craig because he really does work and Lexi I'm gonna call him 10 workers consisting of three um three thre man Crews plus a greater that was the 10 um uh he supervises but he does do some work 11 and then you got the administration at top and that's Richard and Lexi so you have 13 people at public 13 people were approved last year that was that was the appr that was the approved time to do the no that was approved that no they were full-time workers it was a three-man crew that was approved on the last day we went into the we went into that budget session with seven folks plus the the three and we came out um at council's Direction with 10 folks this year what we are talking about and what is funded is 12.4 people 12 full-time people and 16 hours of part-time employee um right now huh how many are there right now working I want to know exactly how many people are working at public works at this at this very moment I think is it 11 I asked for that to get a salary and a thing I wanted to get a list of our employees and salaries supervisors that are not in the field currently no he's I'm in the field he's in the field I supervisor no what you what you have in it is Richard is um the Public Works director and he is he's got a whole bunch of hats he's an FDA administrator he's all kinds of things for for us um and then we have one person who is an administrative um the actual so yes and and her title can we get an can we get because I asked for it I knew it was done 2023 a list of like a plan I I'm looking here I will I will be happy to hand out um the number of positions the the plan the proposed who's getting part-time who's getting benefits if you read my depart quarterly reports every quarterly report has a flowchart of exactly who's here who their names are and everything else it's online it's on the agenda something like okay I could probably go find it but there's on in my in the quarter in my quarterly report I have for the entire year the point the point is within this budget we do not have additional people in um in the public works department now in the um in town Administration last year um there were at the beginning of the year there were nine full-time employees that were approved within that budget um there has been some shuffling around um and in this year's proposed budget um there was there was also as in the amended budget there was um a part-time time uh Chief Building official so this year when you look at the the structure um we still have nine full-time people we have two then potentially a third part-time um code enforcement officer where's nine n there is eight under the technician there is the uh manager um there is the clerk oh okay I didn't there is the uh project coordinator there is the HR Grant person there is the management that's the management anal there's a a management analysis analys analysis analy so all these positions are what's employes down no what this is this is the proposed pay plan for for this year um these are not positions that are currently being occupied uh they are some of them are um right now there are some temporary folks in there so is it possible to get because I know in 2023 and so so if you let me please finish is there were nine people there are nine full-time people now there are um three part-time people um the chief uh the Chief Building official and your two uh code enforcement folks okay so I think you missed the question because you're talking about overall we we specifically asked how many were at public works at public works so that's what C just asked at public works at this at this time I think the answer was there are 11 employees um right now and there is one opening that is trying to be filled so what question was on here we were like we're counting we were counting eight at public works and then you're like no there's an administrator manager but then we thought that okay it's confusing looking at the sheet who is where I think that was her question I had sent yeah i' sent out a thing to get like a list of our our positions in the town the salaries of those positions with the benefits yes and if they're occupied or not and how many occupy that position like um public service worker one we have one position one one employee occupies that at this salary um we have two public you can see that right here that's what this document is it's also in my this is proposed what is what do we have right now [Music] Cent right second currently we have a public works director a public works coordinator the superintendent of Public Works uh three service worker 3es three service worker twos two general maintenance workers are as filled positions and we have one general maintenance worker it's open and one public service worker that's open so I think I think what okay the the overall situation is as I described to you there's not an increase in Staffing this year versus the upcoming year versus the current year as approved um but your increase in salaries are salaries and benefits but they're huge like there's a huge increase and I think that's why you gave it to us in this this pamphlet but you didn't tell us who was where that's why I think so in 2023 you did not to did an organizational chart for Council in 2023 I had it sent to me in public request so okay they did they did an organizational chart and they had Town manager and then below them directors and how many one of those and the salary for that in in so we know how many positions are there and I know I remembered the comment there are some part-time workers they don't get benefits so how many we need to see what their salaries are no I mean I would like to see it I don't know about you guys but I think it would be help determining where our money goes maybe you can propose a motion that we ask for that information well I I'll be happy to give it to you right now but um all questions I had written down for all of it right I know for a fact like with some with the budgeting because remember I didn't get a chance to do with this at 6:00 at night but I know we have two sets of Engineers and they're making I I believe there was a check exorbitant amount of checks going out we have two sets of Engineers you know we have two sets of planners in our town we have kesar and Ingenuity firms we have two sets of planners maybe we can cut some we need to look at what's okay do you understand what I'm saying there's a lot that we might be able to cut and make up 500,000 there's not duplication guys okay we have in um this year's the 24 budget there was the CIP budget included $350,000 for what's referred to as the resiliency Grant we got a resiliency Grant and then there are resiliency Grant expenditures that $350,000 that's all for engineers because they're going to produce a plan um that will help this town in a myriad of ways it will set forth what our current situation is and based on that plan we will be able to seek funds from the state government the federal government all those kind of things you have to have um a baseline of understanding you have to have something to plan from in order to ask for these grants that this committee wants to rely on the $350,000 that we spent on Engineers came from the state of Florida because we were able to become a that get that rural designation the state of Florida said you don't have to spend $108,000 of your own taxpayers money to match and get the $350,000 you can get the $350,000 and don't have to match that's because of efforts of people looking at the situation you don't so the $350,000 that was always designated for the engineers there are engineer bills that I regularly approve um that go to cost recovery now what happens with those so in that number that that's there you have a large amount of cost recovery monies which is we get the bill and we bill it to the developers out there who are coming forward and on top of that we get 10% now there's a question as to whether 10% is sufficient to cover our administrative costs but the cost of those engineers in large part um is on cost recovery it's all born by the developer community that are coming in the other thing that we do with um Engineers that has cost us um money is you know we had we had to relook at um our FDA program that has been in place since 2017 Richard um and who do you get to to do that you get Engineers to do it um and the cost of reviewing that process and there I think there's benefits from it and we're going to come up with some modifications to the FDA ordinance and all those kind of things but when you have everybody coming together and spending time and developing presentations that costs money and that portion of the those those kind of expenditures were not originally anticipated but things come up and you have to to pay for them we have Engineers that are working on getting the permits for various projects um so that's something that comes out of capital budgets to the extent that we can so there's a lot of things that go into that planners all of the all of the time that planners expend on reviewing developer projects we attempt to recover through cost recovery um so we have had a transition between Jim fleshman's firm and the new folks that were retained Caitlyn is the the lead person that you'll see at at meetings so there has been some overlap and um some uh transfer of institutional knowledge um Mr fleshman primarily now works on our uh he's he's designated to review vegetative removal permits and those those kind of things he also operates as um our Planner on call because he charges us a very very low rate um you one of the things that's in here is that there's an increase in that because he's we're going to phase him out and so there's going to be additional expense he only charges ,000 a month as a flat free fee to take people's calls um that uh come in on a regular routine basis um and you know it's like the 10-minute call here the five minute call here to answer people's questions regular people's questions that that this year cost us $122,000 um and it's going to cost more next year as we transition to to folks who um charge more charge more uh they're younger all those kind of things so now when when we have the planners work on an RV ordinance in conjunction with the attorneys both of them are are getting paid that's not the RV development I'm talking about I'm talking about the the RV ordinance that goes up um and goes through a myriad of of hearings we pay them on an hourly basis um to do that work and those are planning fees that are absorbed AB orbed within the general fund and we don't have an ability to charge those expenses um for uh to a developer um because it's not benefiting a developer per se um it's affecting the general community so anytime we have to get planners involved for for those kind of purposes the general fund absorbs that whenever we can transfer that cost to a developer because it's got to do with their project um we attempt to do that with respect to to building up until um this past year and it was a mid-year adjustment it wasn't a it wasn't cont it wasn't in effect in October of last year but it came into effect in December of this year we transferred the way we handled um building permits we had had an outside contractor doing building permits uh for the town and the way that contract worked the town received 10% of the building permit proceeds and the contractor received 90% of the building permit fees um so on the surface that looks like a pretty good it was the idea is it wasn't there wasn't a risk involved um the current situation is we eliminated the contractor and now the town is keeping all of the building permit fees and in order to administrate that um we have a uh part-time Chief Building official and we have a full-time clerk we need or technician we need another technician because of the volume of work that is coming in um and the the beautiful thing about uh building department is a building department is authorized under the law to break even not necessarily make money but those building um fees are supposed to cover the expense and that's what we are trying to do so when you when you look at the additional staff there you also have to look at the additional Revenue that is out there one of the things that we're going to to do and we're presently under underway in the analysis is taking a look at the current building permit fees um and increasing those to cover all the expenses one of the things you will see in the budget this year we have collected far more in building permit fees than we had budgeted that is in large part um and this is you know it it it's kind of a weird scenario but it's in large part because the contractor for whatever reason wasn't paying enough attention to the details and we got somebody who cares and is going to administer that thing and charge the appropriate amount of fees there's a lot of catchup to do um the you know on on the administrative side in the um in the computer program um that we currently operate our building function under um the contractor who we had hadn't closed out um a whole bunch of of permits so they look like they're open they've been given cosos and stuff like that so there's additional work that that has to be done and we're in the process of closing those out and making it run more efficiently the Chief Building official that we have uh um is topnotch he's been over in Wellington for for 25 years and he is he is one of the best building officials in the state um he will run a tight ship and ex The Experience he has um we're going to we're going to be okay on that building department and staff now the building department um also uh collect is going to be the department that collects the btrs and those kind of things um and the btrs are a source of Revenue so when you look at everything that they are going to be doing um we're going to be in a situation at which their expense the expenses associated with those employees is going to be met by um uh the revenues that are that are generated how many people are in the building per salaries per salaries um three um and there is contemplation that one of the part-time um code enforcement officers uh will focus on building um and their salaries will eventually they cost will uh eventually be in absorbed by the the building department employees are there presently there are two part-time code enforcement employees is it possible which would help this committee up here to do a list of the Departments what positions are in the department what the salaries are what and expenditures are going out and what's coming in it's on the sheet but it's just not it's not like I said if we could see it this is this is the pay plan this is the the pay plan structure the pay plan structure is not by Department the pay plan structure is by directors professionals Associates something for this committee at a future date we're not going to with what you guys gave us that correlates with what we got so we can better see you know like it like a cost benefit analysis type thing of each department what who's in the department because we have a building director but then you said there's three people under them who are they I yes if you look at and then we can meet at a separate like at a workshop maybe maybe salaries you know just it would be nice to know where it's going right now we just see a list but it's to us it's just looking it's disingenuous us you know to even work the numbers if we don't know it I don't know how's everybody feel see something like that at a better visual here's what I'm I it's not GNA completed now at 8 o' I understand I understand but I what I want what I want to suggest to you is okay here is a list of what you are asking for with everybody's salary what you if you were evaluating the Departments the department numbers are in here I'm questioning I why why is it necessary I think for you to have these folks matched up I don't understand that let me explain Let Me Take a Shot look this is a list of all the employees present salaries and future salaries right we get that what we are asking is you have a budget you have salaries under general fund salaries right we have them but they've been broken down by department for yes exactly so what we are asking is where is just put another column by depart which who is going in under what department and then put another column is it cost or is it not so we no all so what is cost Rec so which so you let me understand okay let me here we're not going to solve this tonight what I'd like to do for essence of time make a proposal at the end maybe to do a workshop or something with because it would help the council too I know if we're confused and we have some very Brilliant Minds up here um these are a lot of question I wrot these are I have a slew of questions let let me know what your questions are you know if you if you could we could see it I think it might answer a lot of questions if you could if respectfully if you could tell me what the questions are then I will try to answer them and as you said I don't want to answer I like I said you don't want an answer no no go ahead go ahead and answer go ahead go ahead I'd like start with you Tracy so we were given a proposed 2425 fiscal year budget correct in this budget it was broken down expenses Town Council salaries Town administrative salaries building salaries code enforcement salaries so in that it would be nice to know yes you gave us this but it doesn't tell us the information that we're asking for how many people are okay Town Council we obviously know there's five the town administrators there's their salaries that's $633,000 how many people what are what are their title then you have building there's regular salaries at 171,000 how many people are included in that code enforcement two there $112 salaries how many people so you're just telling us these are all the people that work but it doesn't really give us that information why don't what your question first of all is who is included in town Administration on this sheet okay the administrator manager one the clerk two uh the what we're calling project manager which is me3 the HR Director sorry to can I can we can I a motion that that town management provides US Department wise employee roster with their current salary and benefits propos salary and benefits current number of positions future addition in the positions and what positions out of those are cost recovery meaning clients public building somebody vendors are paying for their service or what are the fixed costs meaning taxpayers are taking the load so I will do that for you but right right now what I would like to do is count to seven for you I just want to get through what's on our agenda I'm at four for a future thing no no okay I'm gonna make break this down into the Departments instead of just have a list can you break it that exactly can you repeat what his motion is can you repeat repeat for the cler what is we got a motion on propose a motion under which the town management provides a list of all the employees and contractors individual contractors W2 or 1099 that are that are structured under various funds General funds uh Road and drainage fund Capital Improvement fund whatever those sections are by Department what is their current salary what is their future salary what are the current positions what are the future positions what is the current contractor who's going to be converted into W2 whatever that may be so we can correlate those numbers with the sum of the numbers you have put on the projects can I make I second that we let did the town clerk get all that yes I did um the motion has been um moved by um Committee Member Su and you got what he said yes I did I wrote I was keep we have a second on the motion all in favor for them to provide this at a future date I anybody oppose abstaining okay now let's just move on with our agenda right now because I think we're getting off there's so much stuff yeah I want to stay on the agenda and then we can bring this at a future meeting but at least you have a direction a motion to get us the information I think seeing it'll help it'll help with so we don't get way Ling because we got people here that still need to present motion passes with com Committee Member cing hand I didn't know are you guys not oh okay okay so do you have any more on the 2025 presentation Manish no just to summarize I would I'm I'm mostly done but my summary point is who where is the extra load of services which this team has been brilliantly doing I have to say that this is not an easy effort they have put a lot of efforts and town is better than it was but point is who's using the services who's putting extra load on the budget and who's paying for this just we just want that Clarity so our Council and our residents know that all these things are done for good things but who's paying for it that's it okay and thank you thank you now do you want to add anything more with what he said in reference to this 2025 budget item because you still have the floor we kind of got off of we kind of got off and I know we're very passion question real quick yeah the question do you want to hear a staff presentation I thought on what this meeting was supposed to be about yeah yes he did his presentation we kind of got off on part of his presentation let's get back to what all right all right um have you all taken a look at the CIP no I got it at six o'clock okay you've seen it before um what the CIP is on page 13 okay the CIP is your Capital Improvement plan what's proposed to be done in the capital Improvement plan is to um pave a couple roads next year those roads are um a South uh from collecting can Canal to okobe um collecting Canal from A to B um uh there are four small roads that I call Gap roads that are leftovers from the 2023 project um there are gaps in fulam um and West 25th Street and then really the G West and the E North are not gaps they are um proposed extensions of the current end lines um those those expenditures uh for Road improvements including the rock total 82,000 um do you have any questions about those proposed roads I will tell you that the council in reviewing the CIP last night uh seems to be favorably inclined um towards uh I think there's a consensus uh for these Pro projects um but with respect to the road project do you have any questions about those we have been discuss we have discussed those in the in the past okay no go ahead you guys gave us a separate sheet from what's in our book and I'm a little confused which one are we supposed to the one in the book or the one that was handed to us the one that was handed out is this year's um CIP the highlighted um you see those four highlighted roads those four highlighted roads are not going to be done this year um 24 not not in 24 and that is that frees up uh $434,000 $420,000 um is allocated to the 25 CIP plan uh to fund it so those roads are projected for for years in future years um and there is a list of if you look at 26 27 28 uh 29 30 and 31 um you can see where those roads fall um and you can you can see that the expenditures in future years um for road paving is anticipated to to go down um that's for two reasons um number one a lot of the roads will have been done number two we don't have anticipate much funding uh for those the funding that we are hoping to to match up to to those expenditures are hopefully there will be a continuation of the um uh s tax fund um which is uh your um sales tax um and then also the continuation of gas tax monies gas tax monies are uh probably going to to continue um they are probably going to remain at the same levels um for the next couple of years we don't anticipate a an increase in gas and that's got a lot to do with the electrical Vehicles going on at some point in time the State of Florida is going to have to address um electrical vehicle impact on its roads but at this point in time um we don't we don't see in the near future those funds uh going up much the uh sales tax is um going to end in Stop's 25 leave personal reason all right let the record reflect that Committee Member Frederick who is leaving yes the time is now 8:06 have a good evening um so uh those funds are scheduled uh to end I think it is in um October of 25 or November of 25 which goes beyond this fiscal year um there are proposals and there is some likelihood that it will be revived that is a county issue and how it's going to be shared and everything is uh going to be up for negotiation debate and ultimately um it would have to be approved by the voters um but the that is anticipated to be the funding source for those numbers and that's why you see them in the4 to $500,000 range may I ask a question um is this the same sheet that was circulated yesterday to the council members is it the same or is there any change since yesterday that sheet that you have is the um sheet that is our current capital Improvement plan was it given out last night last yes it was the same no change right yeah okay so I thought yesterday when we discussed I was as a public I was listening I thought the discussion was that um you will not do the tertiary roads or the finger roads whatever the technical word is and you will concentrate instead on the roads that are heavily used for traffic is that my understanding you will you you are you going to relook at the the the priority list what the purpose of that handout was to show you the source of the $420,000 when you are looking at the proposed CIP plan because CIP plans change every year and we make modifications based on the information that we have when you're talking about the proposed you need to look at page 13 um so this sheet is only showing us how much money is going to 202 five that's it this is not a list of the the roads that that is that is a list or that is the existing CIP plan what I did with that with the highlights was to confirm prior direction that we had gotten from the council that those four roads are not going to be done as a part of this year's Paving project they have been bid out they could have been a decision could have been made and the funds are available to say no go ahead with that the logic that you just expressed is the logic that has been expressed by the public works director as to why we're not going to do those roads at this point in time right those that frees up funding availability um and that is uh $420,000 of the $2.2 million that we are talking about expending next year so that that that was the it's already factored in that was the purpose of that yeah if you if you want to see that you can turn to um page 15 on the on the plan where we talk about Capital funds available for fy2 and down we the funds available are $750,000 from EST State appropriation right uh 56 $9,000 from the general fund uh $132,000 from gas tax $383,000 from the the S tax the sales tax and $420,000 from a carryover of those particular funds if the council had decided no go ahead move forward with that portion of the contract than that $420,000 wouldn't have been available and I don't know how we would have funded all of these understand this list of the roads that are highlighted for 2025 yeah there's four of them is this is this the list of the roads to be done 2.25 2.25 million doar right so is that the budget outlay priority list for the roads for 2025 uh if you looking at 2025 are you on page 13 yes 13 okay yes uh the road segment um is of two components you have road paving plan and you have Road Rock plan and that is $812,000 so that's the list for now for 2025 yes okay um then uh what I want to go to next is if you turn the Turn the Page what you have is um swes and culverts it's kind of in the middle of the page and specific Culvert locations um and also uh repair and maintenance of canals those three numbers end up totaling $640,000 plus 360 that's a million plus 200,000 that's $1.2 million um a good bit of that funding is coming from the $750,000 grant if you want to see where the grant allocation is and the expenditure is all of these things um are eligible expenses for the $750,000 I'm not going to go into the specific culs uh because they're um listed there um uh there's some drainage uh that's proposed on uh tangerine and uh Citrus um and the $200,000 for Canal bank stabilization what was discussed and what we anticipate happening um with respect to that is the Canal bank that's going to be stabilized is a the the a canal um that Canal we're going to be able to recover some area stabilize that bank um and that's going to facilitate putting in a a nice Road um this year if you if you looked at this year's expenditures on the the b2a um we have not spent a ton of the um money that was available for materials um and Equipment associated with the Canal bank stabilization because the Canal bank stabilization committee has spent a lot of time um working with uh the folks on prepping uh the roadways for the the paving reestablishing um drainage for those roads um so that's been a focus so there we anticipate there going to be some carryover monies there and all of those funds are going to be necessary to um do the a-road project um so there will be some carryover funds uh associated with with that but the this year's Capital plan this upcoming year's Capital plan remains at 2.25 million uh there is $100,000 up at the top there that you see for TPA um okobe traffic caling um that is uh to see if we can get money um from the county TPA um and fund improvements on um okobe maintaining it always as a two-lane road but improving circulation some of the ideas are roundabouts and turn Lanes going on so that there would be a better flow of traffic that $100,000 is not going to um provide one stitch of construction what it is going for is planners engineers and lobbyists um to put forward and get us into the grant process so that you see in the next year what we have is $5 million that might end up being $5 million um uh two years from now it might never come those monies that we're talking about there is uh the anticipation um of the possibility of Grant monies coming and that this is I know this has been sorry I in 2026 I see 7.75 million I'm on page 14 but it doesn't sum the sum is not adding up I'm talk looking at page 14 second 5.3 6.35 uh 7.25 and 7.17 what you have to do is go back over to the previous page and you'll see another $465,000 no I'm talking about 2026 right that's what I'm talking about it says 7.7 million right next to 2.25 right and and the way you get to 7.75 is you start off on page 13 you have 407 uh 330 plus 585 which is 465 830 carry that over to the next page You've Got 5 million on the on the next page is 5.3 6.35 7.25 you add those two together and that's how you get to 7.75 the to it was that okay it's just a continuation of the the spreadsheet and putting it on to 8 by 11 sheets um so anyway uh that $5 million is great grant money um that we're talking about I know that this Committee in the past has been suggesting that we get and we solicit as much grants as we can in order to apply for Grants and this goes down to some of these 20 million figures which we hope to to be able to get through uh a good bit of it on grants and things like that but for example this $100,000 you have to have a plan you can't go there and say I got a town and it needs money you have you have to you have to have plans um and you so that's what it is uh that $100,000 could end up being a total waste in some people's minds because we might never get the the grant but you have to play the game in order to win the lottery no I think it's a as a comment I think it's a brilliant suggestion I would actually encourage to put more money towards grants and projects and do those assessments absolutely well one of the one of one of the folks um that we talk about here um you know is uh an person who was originally hired as a grant administrator she's now taken over HR she does a lot of administration um and she's taken on three cats um and so that's one of the reasons that you'll see a substantial increase in her pay proposed that's a good reason absolutely good reason um but uh um the next item that we have here is there's $35,000 in proposed uh repairs to the pump house and Gates you will see um scada and Telemetry in 26 at $300,000 that is a necessary thing um it is also another one of those items that we are going to seek Grant funds for whether or not we're going to be successful um is an unknown and at some point in time we're going to have to bite the bullet one way or another and get that improved ska and Telemetry in place that will um help us in a lot of ways uh including reducing some uh employee cost right now because there's a lot of things that we have to go and do manually rather than um in an automated fashion um then the the last item on the well there's $220,000 that is allocated toward Trails um the reality of of that is uh we're probably looking at mostly a bunch of signage on um trails in town but it's trying to reestablish and reinvigorate uh the Trails program um and uh uh the trails are mainly along our Canal bank maintenance um roads um and then what's labeled as resiliency is $85,000 um that's basically to uh on an interim basis convert this building um to a situation in which it can have generator capacity so that it could be used as an EOC in the of an emergency um right now the uh building that we have is the Public Works building um it's probably insufficient for its purpose and it is uh much more likely to go down in the in the hurricane than this one uhor there's $10,000 that is allocated um to begin the planning process once again um for uh a master plan and uh revitalization and uh put some new structures over in the public works um area and then once again you'll see $750,000 in out in a couple years that's um planned and projected uh right now once again we're hoping that with that $10,000 seed money um we would be able to solicit um available grants but you have to have a a plan and to to propose so uh it's a bit of Master planning that goes on out there that's what's talked about with respect to that $10,000 um so that uh that building can uh be made right and and that building is somewhere in the area of 70 to 100 years old it was moved it appears that it was originally a theater um an old timey theater uh but uh we will hopefully at a building um in the future that is um more appropriate for its circumstance um so that's the capital Improvement plan as I said it does appear to have support of council do you have any questions or do you want to yes Tracy has a question what is the advantage of converting this building to an EOC Richard so as I explained to one of the council members yesterday as one of one of his titles is the Emergency Management director corre so as the Emergency Management director we follow the instant command system established by FEMA that command system has various positions because FEMA has a lot of documentation requirements so as one of the council members have mentioned yesterday he's like well nobody's going to be in this building dur a hurricane nobody's going to be near here everybody's going to be a town at Public Works cuz all we care about is clearing trees and clearing the canals out to which I had to correct him and tell him that no um the town clerk is the public information officer her or his responsibility is to is to um communicate with the with the media communicate with the to with the council to um you know do the stuff like you know public information stuff the town manager has a specific task to communicate with Council to communicate with the emergency op Operation Center um Amber who is our HR Director she has a responsibility so the staff in this building has a responsibility post storm um to handle all the paperwork all the administrative stuff required by FEMA there's Logistics team there's you know there's various people and so it's not everybody thinks emergency we just need Public Works staff that's it there's a lot of stuff that has to be done that FEMA requires in order for us to get reimbursed for all for anything after any type of event so the the issue is is that you need power to run the computers you you obviously need air conditioning um chances are I don't know if you've been to that pavil that Public Works building down there but currently the uh building the Pavilion building is being held up with old greater blades that are bolted to the now rotted out with by termites um the thing was built in the fifth we think it was built somewhere between the 30s and the 50s um The Pavilion building there's greater blades that are bolted to the side of it that are holding the building up um if you lean on it too hard it's going to fall over and so I don't even know how it's made it through half the storms it's made it through this building has power but nobody else in the town has power what's the advantage of for the rest of everybody else in the town well we can't provide generator for the entire town my point being if this if this is the only place that has power because there's a generator here how is anybody else in the town supposed to be able to contact the town because nobody else has power it's not a matter of just contacting not contacting the town it's the it's the logistics that are required in order operate the town the town STS to operate whether the the residents get I mean we have teams we have we work with C uh we work with pomy Sheriff's Office pom County fire rescue Works directly like fire rescue and pish count Sheri Sheriff office has specific individuals that I would be able to contact and vice versa for various tasks necessarily for the residents it's more for the town as a whole it's for the town to operate I it's a it's a logistical headquarters for us to be able to dispatch Crews so we you know we get a call from the sheriff's office that there's a tree blocking uh B Road at okovi Boulevard we can then dispatch our crews out to be able to go out and clear and you do have to start the Finance and Accounting right away the the requirements to get reimbursed by FEMA um are not simple they don't and they need everything documented and they have to do it in their way on their forms everything else one of the things when you're talking about an emergency everybody thinks oh it's during the H it's the hurricane it it's the before and the after during the hurricane and I think Cassie can uh tell us this emergency responders don't go out during the hurricane well some do winds go over no no they don't they don't winds go over 35 miles hour fire rescue Sheriff's Office well he shouldn't have been okay I know pal County F rescuees policy 35 M hour Wednesday do not go out do you have any more questions but so anyway that's that's the that's the purpose of of that um so we have a question for Manish yes I have questions to you Mr Galant right as a response as an emergency response leader do you have everything you need to respond to a hurricane or an or a serious event do you have everything in this budget that you need to respond to a hurricane or an emergency event we have the basic supplies that we need we're in the process of procuring other things which will actually going to wind up coming out of this year's budget because we're actually trying to facilitate a lot of because right now the town has a lot of stuff when I got here to facilitate hurricanes uh we just picked up additional chainsaws and other things to help Road clearing and stuff um we just procured new radios so you know cuz we we've been using cell phones and we have a perfectly functioning repeater system down there one of the things we're looking at doing is putting is getting a backup for that repeater system in this building um we're also going to supplement the amateur radio capabilities not only for this building but also for Public Works to assist C because I'm also an amateur radio operator so I can commun use the amateur radio frequencies to communicate directly with C I don't need their person do you have enough funding to do all of those things that you do you have the funding do you have it's in the budget yeah if anything have you been any item that you needed but no all right let let me now ask you as a prevention or a long-term risk manager um are you doing everything that you need to do in other words do you have enough budgets and resources to do everything that you need to do as a prevention for example removing any trees that may fall or preent in are you do you have enough resources okay no that we do not we just spent $65,000 or 625 to and mainly that was just the roads we're Paving this year to remove the Australian pines that is the biggest issue in this town um if you watch the presentation we did last night we had the emergency response thing on there we had Crews had to go out and this wasn't even a storm right it was like Tuesday evening it wasn't even there was nothing going on and next thing you know hide Park is blocked because Australian pine fell down um that's our biggest risk is Australian pines and that's one of the things we are focusing on um unfortunately it's going to take time because we don't have the budget I mean in reality um which I did present this to the council months ago um when we were talking about you know what the town needs to get back on track and get everything fixed and I gave him a number that gave them sticker shock um could you please share that with us like what in your professional opinion as a town with our hazards whether they are trees whether there are some old structures ideally what is your recommended actions and budgets uh could you please share that with with us I gave them a number of over 80 million no that that's a number I see the number we see here and that was to reinforce all the canals correct Canal bank issue is I'm coming to that that my was my next question but hold on that thought let's not include that discussion the failing structures are for now but in terms of equipment what trees you have to get rid of any other risks you see some I don't know some electrical wire something whatever is the exposure right now do you have enough budget to do what you have to do honestly no I mean because like for example the trees we could probably spend half million dollars removing Australian pines just from canalways that we that we don't have the capabilities in house to do we have to contract it out and if let's say some event happens you don't do that what would be the loss to the town if let's say you don't take that action work so what could possibly happen is that you know the trees fall obviously blocks the road so Emergency Services wouldn't be able to get down the roads right until we cleared the roads um we would still have to bring somebody in there to like we would be able to open the roads up as as far as removing the root balls if you go down hiy Park as a perfect example there's a tree there that fell during Hurricane Francis and Jee in that time frame is What the residents told me it fell over the resident cut it off his fence and then left the root ball there and now four more trees have grown out of it so do let me put you have until that time you are able to take do you have some vendors emergency vendors who you can call upon yes do you have some budget outlay for any disaster such sort of response do you is there any I'm I'm trying to understand where is that budget if there is a hurricane and you may need these extra vendors because you are not self-sufficient Chris why don't you take this one so typically in this town is no different they do have uh emergency response contracts for people to help come clean up because you you know it's generally something you don't have a lot of bandwidth for as a local government the city does have a $500,000 line of credit for emergencies like that and they would probably draw upon it while they're waiting to get reimbursed from FEMA a typically and FEMA has just recently changed the rules a little bit so they will advance fund a little bit more than they have been but to get finally reimburse you're looking at an outlay where you're going to have to wait two or three years to get reimbursed sometimes you'll get most of it fairly quickly but you're going to need to cover the cash flow so the city's uh uh guide for that is is to have a a standby letter of credit they pay about $5,000 a year for that facility and they don't use it unless they need to use it Chris just for the record if you could introduce yourself okay uh my name is Chris Wallace and I'm the finance director for the town okay okay and there's also the ability to tap into reserves well right in addition to reserves you can do that too so so let me understand if there is a hurricane right you are saying we will be 100% comp well well you'll be 90 to 95% compensated for your eligible cost by FEMA by FEMA by the state if it is declared as a disaster but if it is not a disaster of that magnitude then you're just out out out of pocket so that's my question where in this budget where do I tap in it's not it's not there's no emergency funds in the budget as a general rule You' have to Cobble it together go reserves or use your emergency line of credit has it has that happened in Town's history in the last few 10 years going back I yeah I think there's been an incident where they used that line of credit so how much did it hit the finances like how much I I I don't know I I wasn't here maybe we should look into that okay so my final question is what we were just discussing so we see a big plan 20 million 20 million so what gives you confidence that these structures will hold until 2027 and then some few structures will wait until 2028 in other words what if five things fail tomorrow how do you know these are your budget for 2025 is only 200,000 next year it jumps to 900,000 next year itum jumps so what is your confidence level that we will not get any surprise on the cost side well a lot of it depends on we get any storms if we don't get any storms then it's you know significant rain events could cause because the most of that money is reinforcing our Canal Banks and so for a bit of history when the town was originally established and um back in 1917 when they dug these canals out they put them on a one and a half to one slope and up north which is where these folks came from that would work because they have rocky soil um they have more stable soil so you can do one to one one to one and a half slopes on a Canal bank and never have a problem in Florida we have Sandy soils and you can't do a one and a half to one slope or one and a half slopes typically like standard canals like if you look here at the c-51 you have a two to1 slope minimum sometimes it's a 3 to1 slope which prevents your your Banks from sliding in in the issue we have here is when you have rapid rising of the water in the canals and you have to drain that water off um sometimes the when the water goes back down it'll take the material with it it'll take the banks with it we have gotten better um since Craig and I have been here we've gotten good at maintaining the levels because we have figured out how long it takes to drain the town out how much we need to open the gates up and we've got it down to a science so we have a sudden inundation of rain we know exactly how much we need to open the gates to maintain the level exactly where it's at right now so we hopefully unless we have loose power the generator isn't start or whatever um to where we or we have no ability to open the gates that's the only time we would have an issue um serious issue but the canals I mean we find it all the time um especially like when cars roll over in the canals or Spide maximize the life as much as possible oh can so many years of I I understand you're highly experienced right and in your professional experience have you seen other towns like us who have old infrastructure get a serious hit on their finances if events like storms happen not FEMA level event but major rainstorm they get serious hit cost wise on the town's expenses well I I used to work for the school district and the school district I worked there during Fran and Jean and it was they lost they had a $23 million hit hit okay it was 23 million now they got it all back from fale eventually was my fin I saw there is some insurance budget here how much is our town insured if there is a flood we lose some equipment we lose buildings how how much of our assets are at risk is it 100% covered yes 100% yeah in fact last the current budget that we have for fiscal year 20 before we were told before the budget was adopted by our insur that you could expect property rates to go up so we increased it by like 25% it went up more than that so we came up a little short in addition to that they also audited not just you guys but most cities they sent out uh their adjusters to basically value your building they took pictures and basically they increased the amount of coverage which also increased the premium so you are covered there are deductible but it's not that big of a deal and the deductible would be covered by FEMA as well and your people are covered when you go in the field if an accident happens you are all covered under proper Insurance yeah we have worker in conf the town is insured we have proper insur so so just in summary what I'm asking you is shouldn't you think in your professional opinion we should have some emergency fund something set aside to you know if those situations happened you explained you can't control the water level and five gates fail or whatever happens I mean I'm I'm what we what we have is we have we have $500,000 um line of credit and we've got reserves um of at least 25% in each of our funds so you know that that g cash flow that's a couple million dollars you know and if you're talking depending you know the the emergency that you're you're talking about and all those kind of things um if it's that big there might be some special legislation that goes on I mean you're talking about a an event that's GNA wipe out Flor that sounds like okay just a look I'm not if there's a major hurricane feema pays I get all that stuff but in the meantime operations are inter um interrupted trees fall down and so forth so just so I understand clearly you have all the budget that you needed within the given parameters for response and for whatever you can do with your team for prevention you have other I'm not talking about 20 million structures whatever you need is in the budget what we need for this year is in the budget I mean what we I mean obviously everything isn't in the budget because there's a lot of stuff that needs to be done I mean we've got as you've heard fr seen myself other people said we got 100 plus years of deferred maintenance in this town there are trees in here that should have been removed 40 years ago when they were This Tall that were allowed to just to go um and if those trees fall you know in a middle in a storm which they do I mean I have a friend of mine who during wima thought that those Australian pines weren't a problem and lost his house because all four of them which were belong to the county all four of them landed on his roof and just and destroyed his house um I mean the town or the home the homeowner it was well his specific incense he was in a fight with the county because he was in the County's easement but the county was like no it's not it's your property because it's just like here um you know if you have an easement in front of your house that easement is yours it's your physical property and you have the the obligation of Perpetual maintenance that's one of the discussions we get into all the time with who's supposed to trim the trees on the side of the road and then you know then you get the liability well somebody's driving down the road they scratch their car it's our road who's who's liable who pays for it who pays to fix that guy's car the town or the resident well the resident's gonna say well it's not my road yeah and one of the difficult one of the difficulties with your hypothetical is like how much money do we need how big was the the thing that that happened um and in those circumstances there is you know we have immediately available to us the emergency line of credit that doesn't mean that that is the extent of credit that the town could seek so you know depending on the amount of money that was needed um you know you might you might be able to secure additional borrowing pretty quickly and all that kind of stuff the the the town itself and the ability to um respond the ability for Council to meet and all those kind of things um that that can all happen um you know what you're what you're really dealing with um and the immediate cash flow is you know the first week or two in the in the worst of circumstances and and then you're you're back to being a functioning government and things can happen once again you know it's it's very difficult to answer the hypothetical if we needed $20 million for some reason um you know I I don't know what com there would be there'd be a whole lot of other emergencies going on and and special Provisions being taken by other you going to present a study with the prioritized list and FEMA study or something so whenever that happens we'll look I look forward to seeing it thank you done so all right uh Bruce do you have any questions no questions so I think we're done then what's 2025 we can move well that's the that's the CIP um it would be it would be helpful for it would be helpful for you on on that you know if you could indicate um by a vote or otherwise as to whether or not you support the 2020 CIP plan because that's an element of our um of our budget just the CIP C plan or the entire but the CIP because that's the as you as you noted in in your presentation the CIP is a Big Driver of everything else if you're in agreement that these things these things in the CIP we are going to fund then you have to allocate monies for that so when you're developing a budget you look at what is needed to be funded if everybody feels that the CIP needs to be funded you have to find a way to do it and um we we've got do we have his presentation because that is a public record that we need to part of that ask for the flash drive yeah if we could have the flash drive so we can maintain that record and oh we'll just make a copy of it on the computer yeah because I'd like to get it back um does anyone anybody make a motion I don't well I have uh I can express some priorities as I see it and I think each of us could do that that' be good go ahead go ahead okay I heard that reserves are exceeding 25% as long as that remains true I think that's that's good and that's top priority next is I'm generally not in favor of increasing taxes but when it's for infrastructure badly needed infrastructure I am in favor of raising taxes both the millage and the assessment to get to what Richard was talking about the Deferred maintenance that's long overdue so that that would be a priority on the revenue side I also in favor of maintaining staff and and not uh cutting staff uh because that that hurts the town I believe so then finally the capital spending should be adjusted to make all that fit so that's the the last priority in my mind gra I don't think we should raise taxes I I really feel that looking at where I'm I'm trying I'm trying to if if we could because I haven't gone through I was trying to get you to focus on the CIP um if if you're if you're saying that you would rather not raise you would rather not do these projects and um if that meant raising rates if that's where you're going and find I'm just trying to get a feel for whether or not there is support to do the proposed CIP that's looking at all the projects they're probably needed I think the biggest thing is cutting the expenditures of the cost because when I went through this and we didn't even go part of this there's well I'm trying to take it one thing at a time sorry so but it all kind of correlates does it not you're talking about increasing taxes and this is only a small portion of it well right wrong if if you if if what you're saying is that that um you're uh not supportive of any CIP until you determine elsewhere in the budget whether or not it's affordable that's sort of what I heard from um Bruce and that instead of it being the main priority in his mind that's the last priority so and and and that's what that says to me in the general sense not in the specific sense that if you are looking to cut you cut first from CIP is that yes so is do you have a similar view to that that CIP is the LA the can we let's take comments from everybody before we reach out well I'm I'm just trying to get you to to focus on where let me let me think for a second me okay so there's a lot to go on there's a lot that we have to look I think there's a lot of things we can tighten our belt on but we haven't even address that I'm not in favor to in the econom climate that we're in particularly right now and I'm not inclined to burden the residents with additional taxes to fund projects that may not that are not considered maybe emergency at this time so I would not be in favor of raising the taxes to burden with with a project that maybe okay is in our wish list per se does that make sense yeah I don't I don't want to put words in in your mouth but it sounds like you're similar to Bruce's point I understand we have them but I I mean this agend I think there's a lot of places and I think an additional Workshop where we can actually go through line items and maybe cut things because I went through blackbot and looking at some costs that really I question but we don't have the time at this to meeting or two and a half hour meeting now U to discuss it so I am not in favor of raising taxes until we take a look at what we're spending is that in line our expenditures and and I am in favor of funding emergencies and making sure that we can handle them and handle something that comes down like the tree that we have the funds and it seems like we do but I don't want to burden our taxpayers because we want to um eat fet Manon in instead of just maybe have a hamburger tonight all right um so if if do you want to should we go on and you want to review do you want to review any more tonight or are you going to oh I'm sorry okay so I apologize we are focusing on Capital Improvement plan budget is that correct we're focusing on that first yeah okay so let's just look at the cost side I'm not I will talk about the revenue side but the expenditure side I think this plan has been cared I trust I trust Mr gallant and his judgment he said he has everything that he needed uh for emergency repairs for prevention and I agree with Mr sui and my colleagues anything that is emergency anything that put safety at risk anything that is going to create massive losses we we all support it I I think this is a good plan I think the difference here is the the new structures that we are building New Roads new whatever we are doing that's not part of that thinking especially we are under so much constraint uh we don't know who's where the funds are coming from so yes do i do I agree with the outlay yes but I I don't know where the funds are coming right now the funds are coming from increase in taxes increase in uh additional increase in assessments so I think my com comment is if we can identify a source of revenue for example you are charging more fees to to whoever comes to here for building work planning work you're approp appropriately you know increasing the revenue that way or you are finding some s tax or some other ways of saving money as we talked about maybe some things could be postponed so if we can find Revenue yes uh you know look my own road is in this and I'm saying don't do it although I I you know I'll be super happy if that happens because I am thinking about we don't have money so um all for the emergency repair proactive maintenance all for it but not for any new construction and obviously we need to dig deeper to see the sources of revenue before we make the decision how would you all like to to proceed um je Jeff before we continue can I make one comment yeah so this CIP budget you're reviewing that you're trying that you're saying that we need to do only emergencies whatever the Cs that are in there aren't CS we decided we just need do ones and whatever the in walls are collapsing I have residents who are scared their daughters are going to drive into the canal or slide off the Cs because the N walls are gone the you know the one over here at effing collecting now is the one if you go look go drive over the right to this meeting shine your flashlight and the one that runs under under uh collecting Canal Road you can see the rust on there you can see where it's starting to split look at F Road between the two sides you can see that one side of the water level is higher than the other because it's completely uded and when we looked in there you could see that the road's about to collapse the the stuff that's in this but in this C budget isn't stuff on there for fluff for just because we want to make it look pretty or make it look or what I've heard heard is trying to urbanize the town we're not we're literally making the bare minimum that needs to be done to give basic services to the residents of this town um we hav't trust me there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done in this town you know that the $80 million wasn't an exaggeration um you know there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done and so this budget this CIP is the bare minimum that just to get us through the next year and next year there's going to be more because at some point the town has to say you know what we need to stop just saying you know we'll just do it next year we'll just do it later or we'll do it when it collapses we'll do it when somebody dies we'll do it when somebody gets hurt okay I I don't think that's what we're saying up here but we have a two hours there are expenditures in our budget that we could cut to fund certain stuff what we're saying is we can't do all this and fund all this and then just throw it on the taxpayer I think that's what we're all saying up here but we haven't even gone through the line it there's there's questions each one of us has I think that's what we're saying the general cons there yes there are there are there are two basic departments you've got your public works and you have your Administration we have the folks from Public Works um here today the Public Works budget um is where you find that if you stayed at the current levels um there's $1.8 million in change of Revenue and what is proposed is $2.4 million um of expenditures so that's where there's the $600,000 funding Gap that we've been trying to fill so um we all understand how the revenues work that that can be increased or decreased based on a a vote of the the council so there's flexibility in there if I could just finish go ahead if we could if you want to and what I would suggest is let's take a look at the Public Works budget right now from the expenditure side um okay and we can either we can either do that uh very quickly in an overview if you have questions Richard's here um we won't burden you with what they do you're familiar with what they do we won't burden you with that presentation but let's just take a look at the Public Works um budget is my suggestion and let's see if we can walk through that and then you can find you know you can discuss whether or not there are areas to be cut there okay are you trying to get a us to say we support something or we don't support something because we're telling you is that what you're trying to get from tonight I am trying to get I'm trying to get through a portion of the the budget I I asked Richard to to be here because I think what we're saying is we could do things but it's going to require a lot more than this I I I think to even go through some of to even do you know to look at this the salaries and the expenditures and a cost analysis and stuff that we need you all right am I in am I in the same ballpark from everybody here I if you look at I think what we're saying is yes we understand you have these projects I'm not I'm not talking I'm not talking about the projects anymore I am talking about the the expenses associated with the public Works um budget it is on page 30 and Page 31 um it it is proposed that there are $ 2.43 two million doll of um of uh uh expenditures here um the salary um numbers in this um in this section uh total $760,000 um that is an increase of $71,000 so it is less than are you what page are you I'm sorry I am page 30 and 31 what you know what I would like to do is these folks are here let's let's see if we can walk through this um that's the $2.4 million worth of projects the salaries in here if you look at regular salaries and then there's Canal crew salaries those two items total $760,000 that is an increase of $71,000 over last year's approved um budget what you have to realize about last year's approved budget in there is that the canal crew um was budgeted for 102 weals of the year um you'll see that the T the canal crew was budgeted at $114,000 that number was um based on 101 12ths it was also based on because we didn't have anybody hired at the time um it was based on that those would be three of our lowest um paid employees the reason is it's 170,000 is because number one it's for a full year number two the people who ended up being in the canal crew ended up not being the lowest paid employees that we that we uh could have had out there so what you have there is some increase in salary um that is proposed some of that going to be done uh through a market um adjustment and there is a proposed 5% Cola in here in addition to the market adjustment when you look at other places for example Sheriff's Department I think is proposing 6.8% increase for their employees this year um if you look at other other governmental entities they are generally in that 6 to 10% range um what you have to remember about this um uh This Town versus those towns is there was no increase in salaries um that was adopted last year um whereas most other governments in the in the face of uh what was then approximately 10% inflation N9 point something um uh gave salary increases that were equivalent to that kind of an adjustment so within the total parameter of things um with those caveats that I've just told you about we're talking about $71,000 of increase in salaries um you can we can go down and you can look at the individual line items thereafter um and we can go through them you have questions uh some of them are some of them some of them down um be happy to answer any questions that you you have and like I said Richard's here um at this time and I just wantan to I have one question the physical environment Staffing that is specifically Public Works correct yes everything everything everything in here in the 105 fund is what we refer to as the public works we also refer to it as the district because um it is the lockah Hatchi water Control District that actually um imposes the assessments so they are in a sense one and the same so you're looking for us to give you some type of motion that we support this I don't no I want I no I'm looking for us to review this and you to ask your questions that you have with respect to this particular section when we have the Public Works director here and the superintendent and we got the agenda at six o'clock last night you did get it late that and so I'm just saying that's a big point is there is there any general questions that you have with respect to this does anybody have a general question about Public Works public just on these page 30 and 31 yes so you have on here you have regular salaries and then you have um Canal bank Sal what what why not just regular salaries why wouldn't that fall under why are we specifically just doing canalang are they only working Canal ban they're not I'm a little confused about um that has to do with the the way things were done last year um they were as I told you there were seven folks in the original budget and um and then the three um your superintendent your um administrative assistant and your Public Works director so you had 10 and then what was established that um the last minute last year was the idea of having a Canal bank crew and in addition to um the threepers Canal bank crew um they allocated uh monies in the capital u budget so there was like $350,000 that we were working with the primary intent of that crew when it was developed was to do Canal bank stabilization as indicated this year um and I don't want to Craig and Richard can tell you exactly how much Canal bank they did versus other um uh drainage work getting things ready with regard to the um the roadways and those kind of things they have been working next year um there is going to be a focus on the a canal um and an awful lot of their time would be spent on that um so it's a matter of they were doing they were doing some special project that's along the lines of um inhouse Capital work um versus everyday maintenance at some point in time they're making there may come a time where they say this can either be done better in another way we're not going to do Canal Bank State stabilization as we didn't do kibal Bank stabilization in a long time or um after the passage of enough time they will have done the Canal bank stabilization so that's why it's budgeted like that long answer um but that's that's the way it was set up three people just doing canal and that's those three people under that salary and everything that falls is that what you just C is that how I'm understanding it Craig or and then the rest of the nine eight people are under regular salaries correct yes and they're doing the mowing the basically the rest of the work thank question question don't worry I don't worry I had the same question as why are the Canal bank people because of last year's budgeting and the way they did it I'm like why can't we just put it all together and call it one thing but you know whatever you have a question okay so they're not going to do anything else besides can no they they can and do do other things they've been we've actually sort of you know I I guess the previous administration promised that they would do x amount of feed of of Canal bank um speaking to the new mayor and the council um their focus is getting the water from the houses and properties to the canals and so some of their focus has been actually on the dra the drainage swes leading to the canals which include replacing colberts um we just finished 161st removing a lot of these trees uh fixing like roads like Casey Gruber you know where residence properties are flooding due to Swale that are blocked or occluded somehow and so they've been working on that as well okay I think uh we appreciate you so much that Missi hasn't let us go on a bathroom break for the last three hours so that means something right 6 to9 PM so let's go through this uh today if we could um do you have all the employees that you need for 2025 yes well no okay I mean honest I mean to be honest with you I could I could take another 10 guys and keep them busy for the next five years I understand I'm saying let me be very specific there is an overtime component why why is there an overtime left mainly that's emergencies if there's an emergency if somebody has to be called in yeah we have to have a budget for that or if or if the crews are out doing a job somewhere and they're you know say they're replacing a culbert across a road we're not going to just say oh looks if somebody so that if somebody works late and all next day they can take off or things of that nature you're flexible correct something okay all right yeah we're very flexible all right then um um this health insurance worker comp all those things are going up because you're converting them to full-time employees is that correct they're all full-time employees now they're all full-time employees we're dropping one person a part time they'll be on the mowing curve 10 hold on there are there are 12 total employees full-time and no I'm counting I'm counting yeah they they're three we have 11 employees we're supposed to have 13 where next year's budget is going to have 12 one of them part time plus six no plus it's 12 plus 16 hours right so our budget now includes 12 13 it has 13 right now right now I just you know I want to reiterate that when you talk about increasing staff and those kind of things the budget for this year had 13 here we are talking about it going down to 12.4 throughout the course of the year it has varied I think at one point in time did you guys get to full staff got to 12 okay so just to on that point for a second I think we have requested a you know detailed employee role so we understand but let me understand one thing um is this increase in salaries Etc is because you are adding more numbers or is it because you're giving them a salary increases to existing this is salary increases um ex how much percent are you giving what percent are you giving as I said there is a market adjustment that is being made um plus a proposed po of the market adjustments are based on the market so it depends on the position it varies if you look at the list that we gave you you can see um what the market adjustment is then there is a proposed 5% Cola across the board no no I I'm looking at the benefits retirement I want to know 2023 we were X which we know 2020 sorry 2024 2025 is this I want to know how much is the salary increase uh being given percent increase overall total as a team and then how much is the benefits increase if there is any additional benefit given to them how much is the Sal your your your benefit your benefit um is going to increase in the sense that um FR your F FRS which is your retirement payment um is based on what your salary is um so so um I think it it's about um my recollection is about 13.5% um is the cost of um the benefits for um most of the employees in in town there are two employees that are paid higher on uh because of their classification under F FRS could you give one one answer what is the percent increase in the salary simple what is the percent increase of the overall salaries of this group it is it is it is it is 71 um getting you to um getting you to to it's 70 it's $71,000 in salary increase um and the the base was 689 but remember that the B had um 101 12th uh yes that's what 10 so 10 101 12th the actual salary on that would be about aund and uh $30,000 so another $116,000 so you're looking give or take um $55,000 increase um on a base of7 100 okay okay so that in in this case um you know the numbers about 7% 8% okay it's is that Mr G you can retain your talent with that increase God I hope so I mean I can't I can't stop if another town is that is that not based on your best judgment is that the number to retain the talent in your team should okay uh next question there is an independent audit set aside here um is that separate audit than uh last year than the other funds audit who does the audit it is a it's that represents 50% of the audit cost we um the it's the same auditor as as last year there's $25,000 um for uh budgeted in this fund and there's 25,000 in the general fund um the contract amount is just under $50,000 for next year all right so Jeff you know that we asked last time for balance sheet and cash flow statements I saw that in the town meeting packet you have un audited balance sheets why the balance sheet and cash flow is not audited when they have audited the revenue and expenditure why wouldn't they do balance who who which auditor will only audit one thing and leave the other things out it's not but goad ahead Chris I'm gonna take that break so I'll you know we'll provide you a copy of the audited financial statements take a break go ahead but it's all audited the balance sheets are audited in a statement in net position which is different type of balance sheet bance sheet are audited yes everything's audited now statement of cash there is no statement of cash flow except for those Solid Waste fund okay so then you provided the packet of the balance sheet and I have that copy to the town why does it say un audited balance sheet the only audited balance sheet is the one done at the end of the fiscal year when we prepare financial statements during the the fiscal year we prepare them but obviously they're un audited during the year so for uh Financial year last Financial year they audited FY 2023 all all funds all balance sheet AED oh yeah okay so please could you provide us last time we requested could you when you give these reports could you give us the balance sheet and cash flows yeah well I think it okay so here's how it works when when we do it I do the balance sheet after the adjustments to the income statement if you will right uh is done because sometimes there's transfers between funds and that's what happened this time we actually didn't make those transfers until I think Friday so the balance sheet will follow if you meet later in the month we I don't like doing any of it until I've reconciled the bank statement for every quarter do you do it every quarter we do it every month every month yeah but okay so the process is we do bank reconciliation we try to get that done by the 5th but certainly by the 10th that requires us to get some information sometimes that's slow and coming and then uh you know if it we eventually reach a point where we just have to you know do it so there might be some unreconciled items but until until the town reviews the income statement if you will it's not really what we call it but until they review that not really confident that the the balance sheet which is done by fund uh there may be transfers between funds are usually are you know the clerk may post something to the wrong fund and we need to move in fact there was $7,000 that was posted to fund 305 which is the CIP that should have been posted the 105 which is the road and drainage that would affect the balance sheet but we have we have it this time produce the balance sheet provide us whenever you finish your month would you please agree to provide okay um I mean we tried to give you whatever we could for this meeting but the the timing of this meeting is you know if it was later in the month you'd have it but the okay whatever period you have we would love to see road maintenance service uh the cost have gone down is it because you have paid more roads is that true yes from 287 to 225 that's part of it yeah and um your rental and leases have gone down because you own this um set of vehicles yourself correct um yeah basically um we are the procurement of the new dump truck and the S mini excavator are coming out of the the FY 2024 budget Mo majority of it is being funded by selling off Surplus equipment that's been sitting at public works for eons um that we got a good chunk of money for so that paid for the sey and the dump truck so currently we're renting those two pieces of equipment so once we're done with that we'll just have the Aspen The Grater the cabota okay and something else okay got it okay um one question on that yes go ahead so you have no budget for repairs and maintenance of any of your Miss it's on the um they move we Consolidated the repairs and maintenance so if you go up to physical environments onm canals there's a $94,000 line under 50 under 105 5468 that's all the equipment okay I have a question we consolidate when you when you your employees your staff is working on repairing a canal versus I saw under the capital budget you are doing Capital how do you know which cost goes where how how which work is classified as capital and which work is classif we identify for GL yeah we basically identify yeah we know what projects are um Capital which projects we're working on Capital so you you cost all you send the cost allocation to the capital projects right correct on the on the capital projects when I see the balance sheet why don't I see the assets of their vehicles why don't I see our town owns $5 million worth of dumb trucks I'm just asking a dumb question but where is it's not DB I'll give you it's not dumb question it's a function of governmental accounting so governmental funds um do not reord any long-term assets or long-term liabilities on its balance sheet so you if you issued $50 million of debt you wouldn't see it on the balance sheet right and you won't see the fixed assets related to them on the balance sheet either now there is another statement which we only do at the end of the fiscal year it's called the statement of net positions it does have long-term liabilities and long-term assets so that's the that's your cash flow Sor well not really my question is the following when they build roads when they call it a capital project does it add in your assets inventory yes but you won't see it on the balance sheet for governmental funds you'll see it on what we call Stat of position if we 100 million Mr just make sure you speak into your mic they can't pick if the assets were 100 million and they did $5 million worth of capital projects and now our road and Canal assets are worth5 million how does that help our town in so let's say we issue long-term bonds or anything else we we own $5 million worth of vehicles is there Capital project adding to our Town's value or is there a way to leverage yes there is well you can't leverage it because only government thinks a Road's an asset as opposed to something you just throw money at over the years correct so but it does it does we do book it as a fixed asset so it's a capital asset that gets depreciated over time uh and then it gets fully depreciated it's just gone it doesn't matter you can't you can't leverage it because no one's going to buy a or whatever they'll buy a building I mean leverage for bonds right that's the only thing you can't you can't mortgage property government property in Florida so I'm saying what is the benefit to us to do this Capital what I'm trying to understand how does it help town to put in improve Services no no I know but I'm saying is there a balance sheet effect well yes well what you would call the balance sheet I'm just going to go with that okay I don't want to get too technical with it but yeah in my opinion and they changed the standard governmental accounting standard back in like I don't know 2001 or whatever it was and you have to keep in mind that the most governmental F all governmental funds are basically prepared on a modified AC cruel basis is to say cash basis so there is no long-term liabilities no long-term debt the the governing body for accounting standard said that this is wrong we don't know what condition government's fixed assets are in so they started making people record them depreciate them and say okay now we know uh what condition your assets are in sometimes you could go into negative position on that and I have clients who have that I take it with a grain of salt though because you'd have to know how engineers and people valued assets that hadn't been recorded years before when they converted you had to say how much is that road worth it's like know so so let me put it this way if God forbid there is a FEMA storm and our assets are worth 110 million does so that matters that we keep record of capital assets is that well yeah but more importantly things like roads and sidewalks canals right they're not worth anything okay then this building's worth something and you need to Ure it you're not going to ensure a road you're not going to insure a Canal bank but physical assets like you know computers and the building you know that stuff's worth something and you do have to monitor it the state requires you to monitor it and know where it is but that's worth something but you can't you'd have to sell it to get money understood so you have a list of all the assets of the town over a period of time you have bought and you depreciate retired okay one of the fun part of it's one of the part of doing year end is that's the fun part wonderful so when I say balance sheet I meant that I would like to see all those assets thank you with that I am confident of that budget yes I will send you the audited financial statements and then you're GNA have questions if you would like my comments I'm good I think good are you done with what you need from us Jeff to move on or are you have if you you're supportive of the $2.4 million in expenditures that's what I'm hearing from you think I am yes yes it yes okay pending the but I'm not yes to the source of Revenue and the taxation who pays I understand that budget yes I think it's a good budget yes okay um is that in the form of a is there we don't need a motion but is there consensus on that is there a consensus on to agree to the road and Canal budget the uh on the expense side on the expense side I think saw so we want to make a motion a consensus to see who's who's in favor of agreeing to the would you like me to call R yes yes all in favor yes okay could you do that one more time and just put it just the record may I sponsor a motion to approve the budget the expenditure of without the tax Aid without not the revenue side not the taxation side the expenditure side of the capital project and the uh Road and Canal maintenance budget I second it well I thought we were talking just the road just do thisal maintenance project Road and Canal maintenance is that good Jeff for is motion to approve the budget of roads and canals maintenance budget second on the expense side on the expense side yes yeah second by Tracy right that was that what you were asking second by Tracy okay perfect all righty okay given the time given everything else how do you all want to proceed at this time um I'd like to um I don't know it he's up Chris is up next right well no I mean we haven't gone through the entirety of the the budget um if you want to hear from Chris that's fine if you take meetings with the council and we are we can have another meeting yeah well what is the consensus from you guys want to continue on this at the late hour that we're at not tonight but but the the difficulty is with staff putting this together so okay what do you think Jeff well let's talk about Avail we don't have Mr who here to to check on his schedule you can always send out a um what is your availability the the we have we have scheduled meetings on the 20th and potentially the 22nd for Council um that leaves us in very short order but I know that you guys need more time and uh um are you available on the 19th which is Monday six o'clock I'm fine on the 19th can do to okay and then we just need to send an email and what was the date Monday the 19th 6 o'clock yeah and that be to cons continue what we're doing with what I what I would suggest is you um have a motion to continue this meeting until uh that time frame um and I and Chris are you available wake up are you you're okay Chris for the night so do we have somebody that wants to make a motion to continue this meeting discussion on the 19th at six o'clock yes anybody motion by Tracy by Bruce all in favor to I anybody oppose okay I will try can get to get this in the form that I think you want it I'm not going to take a motion to get it exactly right $58,000 is that all then for this we can have before you y were you going to adjourn first before you adjourn we have to do public comments and members yeah we're not worried about we're gonna get through those but we don't have to do that because we're it's a motion to continue so we're not going to get the board my only comment is that Excel sheet and give us your comments that's all okay I have one comment and I I'd like to see maybe we could have a joint because I've seen it in past a joint meeting going over budget and spending with the council maybe where we have like a round table I've seen it in the past when I was going through transcriptions so I don't know if there's time but I think it would be beneficial it would I think it would beneficial to both sides um that's just my comment it it uh it would have to be discussed with the council at their meeting comment and maybe can be brought up I'm sure it will be brought up public comments I think it be beneficial to both yes yeah um and with that if we don't have any other comments yeah good I I will just I would just tell you okay we're gonna try to get this to you try to get to you on Friday just was a lot to digest I I have do we have any other comments understand all I really do um and I anticipated that we probably have a I make somebody make a motion I make a motion to adjourn all right second all in favor who second don't need a a second on a motion to adjourn but that's is that right yes squeezed who squeezed us today thank you for your time thank thank you for your comments I know um Chris thank you for getting here from Miami you get the most driving award I'm turning off the live stream but just remember that your mics are m still on m still I think my I'm going