##VIDEO ID:Yce1E7ew2PY## we have one on December night uh that might be a conflict let's let's we can talk about let's call it or we can talk about that we're live Mr for the you R we're live Mr get call the uh ulc Review Committee order please rise for the pledge pledge aliance to the flag the United States of America to The Republic which stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all same paper two sided here there roll call Committee Member cisano is absent Committee Member Robert Austin here committee committee member Karen here Committee Member Paul keman here and uh our newest Committee Member Mr uh Brian zadonsky I think it is um he was appointed by the um the Council on uh Tuesday night um as Mr Sullivan had uh resigned from the committee so uh we have we attempted to to contact him but we don't have good contact information for him um now we do we do now yep so we'll make um for our next meeting make sure he's um sent everything he needs and sworn in at our regular meeting yes see he's not officially a member until he gets sworn in um so we'll hopefully have a a quorum at the next meeting um we we've been thrown off we've been thrown off of our schedule due to the um due to the tornado that went through uh town uh we were originally supposed to meet uh our on October 14th um but uh everything was still in a bit of an uproar at that point in time from the tornado that had gone through uh so we ended up rescheduling the meeting um for this evening as our normal November meeting would have been on Veterans Day when the uh the town was uh closed so uh the yeah I know I'm gonna walk them through um one of the things that you've got on here is the approval of minutes there are nine sets of minutes um now many of those date back um in time to before the reconstitution of this committee some of you actually were members and I think uh Mr Coleman was actually the chair at a certain point in time I saw saw his name uh listed there is that or is that or you're just having him sign yeah yeah no I was on the ret you on ret yeah now um the deal with uh approval of the the minutes um as the committee you are free to approve them um if you are uncomfortable because you were not a participant um that's okay too um and we can simply receive and file uh them um we do have uh the minutes from uh 9:16 and uh 812 uh at which you you all were the committee um so it's up to you as to whether you want to approve the first seven um or whether it's simpler for you all to receive and file uh because you may or may or not have been a participant all right well I guess first we got to approve the agenda right yes great technically so I have a motion to approve the agenda as it stands I approve y second motion by Robert Austin by Committee Member Austin second it by Committee Member plant moving and seconded all in favor I oppos None saying nay motion carries to approve the agenda and at this time are would you guys like to move forward with approving the um minutes 1 through seven you like that was my next question Sam okay um yeah so I I um I guess this is a chair I can't really make a motion right so you can I can so I I make a motion that we um what would be the difference if we approve more we just send them into archives they would just be contained as backup for those previous meetings that were held yeah either either either way they're going to function in essentially the the same manner um on approval suggests that well we're comfortable that you got it right I see stuff about RVs on here that I had didn't review and stuff and I that's that's some of that stuff has changed anyway with with Council input stuff like that when there was no I I think we got to just point order if I may I think we got to make a motion then we can discuss right technically uh yes okay so I make a motion that we just we simply receive and file one through seven because there's nobody here that was on the on that committee at the time who well I think I think Karen was yeah oh you were but I I didn't read these over and I don't feel comfortable approving them without really looking at it okay especially since I was on the committee and they and they date back five years yes there you go so I amend it I amended I make a motion that we we receive in file one through S as as historical just for backup second of motion okay now I can discuss so as you're saying yeah we just we can just receive file these as as you know hisorical document and it's there what what what has happened there um for a number a number of year I actually um for most of the recent history um the town was not going through and uh having minutes of the the various committee meetings being done and certainly not a on a contemporaneous uh basis one of the things that um our current clerk has initiated is uh going back and reviewing those those old old meetings and trying to get uh minutes U brought up to date so people can have that um information and so we are bringing them forward so that they can be uh approved um what you all just did with respect to the old minutes perfectly acceptable now we have the fact that we were received and filed them uh not formally approved but they're they're good reference point um and then with respect to the current the current uh meetings those are meetings that uh you all participated in um and uh it would be appropriate for you to uh consider and approve them or approve them with modifications um all right so all all in favor of this motion to receive and file 1 through S we um go ahead commit excuse me commit mare plan we're calling Ro at this point okay yes yes I Committee Member Paul Austin Paul Coleman yes Robert Austin yes yes okay that motion passes nously now for minutes 8 through nine does it is it pertinent to have discussion beforehand or after hand after the motion because I I have a correction I either way is fine I think it's probably pertinent just do it ahead so um the last set of minutes um it says August 12th on the header but it's September 16th as noted so if you look at page 29 of the agenda oh I see yeah you can approve it with a correction okay so that's I saw the date and I started reading I'm like wait a minute I wasn't here was there a motion to approve with that correction oh yes I'm sorry make a motion to approve item 8 and N the minutes from the previous two meetings second take rooll or just a vote y we're just gonna take rooll Karen PL yes Paul Coleman yes Committee Member Robert Austin yes that motion passes unanimously yeah and we understand the motion to reflect that the change in the date mot correct like the change of the date all right public comment as there is no public to make a comment do we have any that we're send in we do not have any comments by the public Mr chair okay so we can move right along to the regular agenda which is to continue the review of the rule Vista guidelines correct correct yes sir um we made it fairly deep last time didn't we yes yes we did um we my recollection of the the discussion was that the there was like a homework assignment essentially to because we had we had gone through and discussed uh most of the commercial development that has occurred on Southern Boulevard and uh with respect to whether or not they had complied or not complied or been satisfactory um uh in EUR all's view as to meeting these rural guidelines and I think what we were the the assignment if you will was to to go and uh look at areas um where there was something that we would like to emulate because for the most part you all had concluded that what had been developed um did not meet the spirit or intent of what you all view these um rural Vista guidelines as as having been um and so what we were going to try to do was try to come up with examples of what is something to to emulate um and I know there had there had been discussion I think of um the uh the the M the McDonald's area out um off of Pratt Whitney and like orange um as having been something that was more in character um those kind of things that's what the we were uh going to going to be thinking about and And discussing in in some detail on uh on that more of an approach of all right we've talked about what failed and and wasn't there but let's talk about uh what we if there are examples of what we would like and and get that a little more fleshed out right and think the McDonald's were talking about that we were talking about was the one because it's in the pictures is the one on Indian toown Road in Jupiter Farms that's okay like when you look at the pictures of the McDonald's in here that's definitely where that's from um I mean as far as I as far as I'm concerned you know Everglades is the the gold standard for what this is I mean they they again they I mean I know beat this drum last time but you know they came before our committee and back and forth and back and forth with their design team and this is what they they flushed out was what you see in front of you today yeah well I agree with that and would be nice actually because to bring stuff to look at because you're kind of making rules but I like to see what these Architects present to us then we could say well this is kind of neat here or nice here but you need to add a covered walkway like they have the Everglades or some type of wood railings or and also you know like I mentioned last time I like the burage that they have on Westlake because that's nice when you're going down the road you're not staring right at the buildings but they do have nice signage that people can see what's behind the BMS but you're not driving on a St Road staring at you know strip shopping centers like Military Trail yeah so well I think that the intent is the intent is to get closer to that so we so we can you know we have guidelines so when The Architects come in and they come to pzb and they're they have elevations and and renderings and such they can say and you know they have plans and Landscape plans they can say well you're not following the guideline because you're planting palm trees instead of Oaks or Maples or whatever you know what I'm saying so that our our task is to get this codified so when it goes to pzb like there's something coming up a pzb meeting coming up next month right and somebody's presenting something to them to get approval or to get their blessing to go before the council then they can go wait you're not meaning this this and this and this you know either yeah Sara or bring it back meeting the guidelin yeah so one of the things that you all clarified with respect to the uh the porch look is that it shouldn't just be on the front but it should extend to the um the side if that side is um exposed and you know to to parking and to to access um those kind of things um so with respect to um moving forward do you want to where we where we were uh as far as in the um in the pagination on this um it was at uh we were talking about landscaping and and setbacks um on page 20 22 of the old one let me see what it is on the the uh your pagination has changed because of all the oh 22 Yeah 22 is actually appendixes yeah and well um it's page 55 of the current agenda uh or 54 I think we were on parking we had it was uh is where you all had gotten to and where we we left off with the Landscaping um and uh so we were almost to the appendices as far as discussing where we were on the on the p on the Page by Page review so so is this is the intent to to codify this as the part of the ulc or just a reference within the ulc uh I think ideally what we would do uh with this is you would have a reference to um the ru Vista guidelines that would be adopted but they would be adopted by resolution so that you you would not have to go back through uh two readings and so forth to to to make an amendment so that you would but we it would actually be an adoption of this or something similar to it what we're trying to do right now is get um feedback and then um produce a new document um that will have updated um information and references um and some of the uh some of the the the drawings and and turn for example the the pictures that you see here um into not just simply saying oh we kind of like this but actually look at that and say okay um this is these are the elements that um actually make that um and supplement it with uh uh with perhaps drawings or or examples um so that uh the the next step in this process after you've gone you've given us the input is we're going to try to put a a draft uh of a new document for you all to uh to approve based on the comments that you all have made I guess where I'm going is is is because the code stipulates X Y and Z and then it would reference a standard where or reference the appendix of the of the ulc which has the standards just simple like like the building code refences right ASM blah blah blah blah blah right so I guess the question is how specific should this be or is the spe spe the specific nature going to be in the UL in the code itself now the ulc is going to remain General it'll say that there are rural Vista guidelines that have been adopted by resolution blank blank um and then you would look at that resolution and the um and the document that's adopted um for the the specifics so this one of the things that we need to um do is turn this document into something that has the standards what we're trying to do right now with you all is go through this and take a look at what would has been done and say all right is this still the is this still what we're looking for once we identify what we're we're looking for um we're going to come back with language and a new document that actually specifies those things if so you don't you don't want from us right now you don't want we only accept oak trees maple trees Etc you know if the if if if you're at a point in time where you know you you know that that's um and and you have the actual Landscaping pallet that you want that's great if you can be specific right now but um what you what you all did um with the rest of the at the last meeting and there was a lot of good input um was you you said notes Here For example on something that I can be specific with um you re you reiterated that projects should uh should have uh the similar architecture treatment on all sides and and that went to the specific comment that if you're going to have a porch it's going to extend uh around not necessarily to the the back where there's no access but if something is lined up um for you know a side on a parking lot and there's access from there that that should be um that same treatment should be extended to to that side um and then you know you did uh go through and and indicate um where things the the photographs and so forth were still uh meeting the uh meeting the the standard you made comments on um the exteriors um and you know one of the things I can point to is that you you said you you wanted some variation within the uh the exterior to give it um uh some some depth and and not have necessarily a continuous flat wall look for example so uh so what we're going to what we're going to do is we're going to take the comments that you have already made and make tonight um and weave it into a new document um that will uh tell you for example um when you go to roofs and roofing materials uh you know where it's got a comment breaking up the roof line adds ch arm to these buildings um and we're going to put a standard in not that it adds Char uh charm but that um you're you're going to um have to have certain characteristics within the the roof line or uh there'll be a a choice of characteristics um that are acceptable um you know but you you know the that that flat roofs are unacceptable unless they've got them answered in front of them that make it look um or give it appear appearance those are the kind of things that we're going to uh to put in here um based on the comments that you've made so forth and we will have a document that you will um review we didn't want to be presumptuous and say oh this is you know staff says this is where what should be done we want your guiding guidance before we try to put that all together right well I think in this Landscaping section page 54 the agenda I mean I don't know if it's a given because it's somewhere else in the ulc but if this is the reference that everything's going to point to I think it wouldn't hurt to mention it yet another time but you know any and all invasive species are prohibited and we could even maybe refer I think M has a list right here is a list you know I don't know there's a list here there's a list saw something somewhere I thought I saw one too but I'm remiss oh vegetation na to South Florida now I don't know how old this list is um but basically some kind of language that says that you know there this is a list of accepted trees I'm talking there might there I think there's a you want a list of prohib list of prohibited trees so there's no or at least a reference to such a list yeah or you know we could even adopt you know say pomes County M has a list of those kind of prohibitive trees that we could go maybe we could look at that list what about the size and we could adopt so they're not planting really scrawny things well the that's tough because you know you know devil's advocate of things but you know when you you know buying a a juvenile tree versus buying a you know larger tree I think we're going to get more bang for our buck if we allow them to you know there there's certain gauge you know in what I do there's certain gauges that are acceptable you can't go put a sapling that's you know pencil pencil thick you know like a you know like a closet di thick that not considered substantial I mean now you could put five which would equal one so you would have to put more you know there's there's you know ways to work with that um so I think it just depends on yeah well and there what you have to also remember is that um and I'm I'm no arborist or but uh you can get a tree that's too big or or unlikely to um be successful because it's too mature um and doesn't have a chance to adapt to its new environment um and so your survivability on younger trees um is going to to be better obviously not if they're teeny tiny because then the weed whacker is going to take them out um but you know that there is there is probably a sweet spot or goldilock spot on what should be done there from a survivability standpoint so that they can mature in place the other thing with Landscaping that you always have to to remember um is that the trees do grow they do mature um and you know you don't want to be from a spacing standpoint for example if you have a a tree that initially you know has a a width or canopy of like 15 feet but it's going to get to 30 feet in width if you plant it at 15 so that it looks good immediately upon planting you're then going to be in a situation of removal 5 to 10 years down the line when the tree is where it is supposed to be um and so that that's always something that you you have to keep in mind um because the the trees in order to develop well they do need the air and light so that they have the opportunity to get to where they're supposed to be and you know you can overcrowd things and also the roots can be destructive too yeah so I love oak trees but oak tree roots can pick up sidewalks and curbs and everything else yeah so um that's the that's some of the problems of of of saying to to someone go and put in the mature stuff so that it looked great from the beginning think there should be a minimum yeah no and and and there are I I don't want to make it it's not like you can put sapling in or anything like that well but yeah if you're dealing with something like a pine tree like a slash pine anything over so many feet tall and like you said it's not going to be viable it's not you can transplant all you want but it's not you know that's why most of the ones you see that are planted new or about what five to six feet tall or smaller because that that way you know when they get so tall that Taps way low and you know shocks the tree no and I mean I I'll I'll share with you that you know one of the things I this is just once again personal opinion not right or wrong but um when you put in the The Tall palm trees um they're they look all right and they look reasonable when they're maybe 15 feet high but by the time they get to 60 or 80 you're going like wow they just put a a very large stick in the ground because you don't see anything as you're driving along it's nothing's within your um your Viewpoint I see that uh um my son lives in California and I see that with some of the real old uh I think they're called Washingtonian not Royal Palms they're the the Washingtonian because these are these are these are skinny things they're about six inches up and they're 120 ft in the air and you're going wow they were probably gorgeous in 19 or in 1920 but here it's like yeah well it actually mentions that palm trees will not be uh not will not substitute for canopy trees since they do not provide the appearance and shade so but yeah I think I think we could refer to the to the the no the the prohibited list as well just to add it in because I think that would help and what what we will get you for for uh the for analysis when we um when we bring bring back the revised document um we'll have for you if the um if we think the current Landscaping um standards uh which I think are mostly in uh our chapter 8 7 or article 87 um which is being revised now um but uh we'll bring that if we think hey we don't have to we don't have to duplicate the information in here so that you all understand um those issues of yes it does have to be you know a tree that's at least um 8 inches in diameter and 12 feet high or something along those lines yeah right Al also looking at the uh page 55 talks about you know landscape timbers um yeah that's I mean I wouldn't call that a landscape Timber but I I would also be open to a compos they have done wonders with a composite stuff um which doesn't rot it can still you know they have you know 4x4 6x6 whatever in composite material that still would look rustic you know it would more longevity better than concrete I don't know what your guys thoughts are no I definitely like the composite material if it looks like wood I mean listen I mean what they're showing here are railroad ties anyway not landscape temp yeah and well let me ask you this do do you view those um that kind of treatment as something that's acceptable or something that's mandatory you understand what I'm saying if that in the in the standards are we going to say this is something that you have to have um in order to to meet the the character or is yeah this is acceptable but so is this and I I'm just noting that um if you look at the landscaping and setbacks you you've got you've got this great um that uh is is in a setback and and looks very much like um a cityscape yeah it doesn't look and then you've got uh the the the railroad ties landscape uh Timber kind of look and it's not clear to me in here as to whether the the city um great is okay or not okay right um that that and the same thing with the the landscape timers you know is that something you have to do when you're Isola a tree or is it just like one of the things that you might do so the landscape timbers U old railroad ties rot out pretty quickly too because they're usually used when you get them yeah yeah as far as the gr goes I mean I don't I even know where that how thats to what's yeah so so you're not having exposed dirt is what it is well that's what I'm saying when it's used for space because there's not a lot of walking space instead of putting the timers around it and only having a foot to walk around it they put that great down so you could walk around the tree so yeah and not have exposed I think that's acceptable but I also think that you know because it talks in another section about H where is it uh non-vehicular Pathways and and pedestrian amenities talking about you know benches and things like that and actually shows the tree boox bench um on page 53 of the agenda and then it shows them again on this page I said these are definitely acceptable uses I think we just need to Define materials right you don't want to we're not looking to get a concrete planner per se right I think that's the so something that's wood or faux wood yeah yeah I'd say if they have to box it in but then you know then we talked about the the the uh veneers nowadays they're you know they're making you know you travel out to Arden examples out there they they they make the stucco look like lap siding but yeah it's still stucco you know it can make it look like rock too Rock really nice too yeah so I mean you could face it with rock you face it with you know and still have a planter box so you have that that soil depth around the the tree to protect the tree but I like everything I think we we just need to you know incorporate maybe railroad ties composite Timbers things like that stone veneers yeah could refer to the complement the the section on now the exterior section where it talks about the acceptable materials list could even point to there as well um do you want to go to the unaccept or we ready to yeah I would think you know unacceptable would be aside from curbs would be unfinished concrete you know or just P flat painted concrete yeah well I mean that kind of takes away the ability to use the I don't know why they would because it's it's going to damage easier if you used like stucco on block but I think there's plenty of things with with steel you know like rot iron looking steel and with composits and with Timbers that could facilitate all the stuff maybe we scratch tuck it right yeah you agree yes you agree well like you said if they did the stucco and made it look like rock or siding and not just you know right plain stucco because you can work wonders with concrete right I don't know if it'd be easier for them to make the box and then stuckle the outside to look like it's a block or I mean rock or like you said the Hardy board yeah I mean that's you make the box out of you know they could design the Box made out of block and then you could finish the outside make it look like rock make it look like rock or you could attach V you know rock veneer to it absolutely that looks really nice so we don't want to you you understand where we're going we don't want to negate the use of or totally diminish the use of you know like block constru yeah it's but the finish the Finish has got to correct follow the guideline yeah I think that kind of covers that page yeah yeah well and the the next page I think is a unacceptable a list of question on some of these things let's define what is UN unacceptable about it the long colon a basically just a covered almost sidewalk instead of a nice porch but maybe it's because they did concrete it's not I you know that I like this uninteresting roof line yeah individuality the stor is lot yeah because that that's what we're going back to that that kind of borders on what we were talking about you're reviewing from the last time is having that depth of character in the building kind of like Tractor Supply sets back from the rest of it yeah you get that I you know I wonder when they look at the when they're saying the uninteresting roofline individuality of the stores is lost I almost wonder if uh would it would it fix the problem if I had a a cute hanging sign you know down that said barber shop and then this is you know what I'm talking about like you know it does that does that fix the problem I don't I I don't think so I think they got this from the ex there's an existing building that was here before this was developed and it's just yeah has the covered walk and all that stuff but it doesn't you know it's just a straight it's got a flat parit wall and and a little you know slope roof in front of it and there's no you know interesting yeah so it's like yeah yeah the architect or designer can all always you can design little uh lack of better term bump UPS in the the parapet wall to create depth you know stuff like that so I I get what they're what they're saying it's just it's a very broad brush right well and and and the problem this goes to you know saying something that is uninteresting that is not a standard no that that you can you can deal with so is it does it make it more interesting if um you know they have uh they had you know uh more of the the little cutout there I don't know what that ders yeah I guess the dorm left hand side of that picture yeah that and you know because they're referring to that you know um that that would be helpful if we could identify what it is that makes something interesting or uninteresting and um those kind of things and and you know you know and likewise with with towers are are all Towers unacceptable or is is there something about that tower that yeah I think there's something about that Tower and and this The Arches and long colonades thing I mean I think there's something there that that just looks very contemporary yes that's what it is um you the design of it I think that's what it's pointing toward so I I mean because you can have a long colonade that has a front porch on it right that meets all the other requirements but it's just a straight run but they've changed you know Heights of the roof line and this and that and the other you know to to accommodate most of it um but I think that's that's what they getting at they're getting at with that you know that just that tall tower in front of the building it's not very aesthetically pleasing to the to the you know it doesn't really fall in right you can go page 47 and you see some long walkways there but because they uh managed it differently and made it look more rustic or or um I think it gives it better character for what we're looking for in our town than the cement well they're also wider they're porches they're not just a covered sidewalk like that one colonade there looks look like a covered sidewalk these look like porches are probably double the width of that corre little sidewalk and even if it was narrower it would still look like a porch versus yeah just a walkway yeah but that that that is a good that is a good point that um if you added width it wouldn't uh it wouldn't have that same Tunnel right more yeah so there's there's probably a ratio that we can take a look at um and you know we'll we'll we'll supplement that ratio with uh some some pictures so you can see what we're talking about I I still think it's a contemporary walkway and that's part of the problem it's not just that it's a long Corridor it's concrete I think that adds to the so so you think it's a m there's a materi it's the material I think it's I think it's both I think it's the design of it makes it just seem like this Tunnel right so I think I think that's what they the intent was there they didn't want just this you know tunnel feel you got these really this real tall you know ceiling to to the walkway and this and this these tall C coming up to this short Arch and it just boxes it you know it kind of shapes it in so well if it was wider and like they showed here and they had a the decorative fronts almost like the fencing for the porches give it character but that's so thin you really couldn't even do that yeah I mean the screen yes unacceptable hip on Deck Too Tall and then they another Tower issue here the the tower is it it's it's the I think it's the bulk of the tower in comparison to the uh the the size of the building or the mass of the tower if it was a portico let's say for cars to pull under or something might be a little different but that well they've got that there it's right next to that right they got a portico next to right it's almost like you didn't need that there that's just a covering for the entry way it's like we want to get our sign up high because if you look at the roof line of that building is at at a single story level and that is at a two story it's not like just this little little cap on a on a like a entry way you know and that's also why we made it so so big and and bulky in comparison to the size of the building because we wanted to get the sign up and we went and decide to be big enough I think you're like that around here I I think that uh I think there's Merit there and that that that yeah well that's another example of of where this kind of fell flat as a guideline right yeah we currently have a a a business that has a you know kind of a I don't want to call it a tower but it is a block like right at the entry web okay and they their logic on needing a variance for this the size of the sign was because they had this big piece that they needed to cover well yeah you make this big piece you make your sign so your name stands out yeah what's the driving force exactly and then we're trying to keep elevations of signs down but they're allowed to put a sign on the building so it's it's like so now you now put your sign higher than everybody else yeah so you're your accent feature should just be that and accent not the feature um correct and and so you can address that by uh limiting the the size uh of those um and even do it on a percentage kind of basis so can you limit how high they can put a sign up yeah we could that's a that's a whole another meeting right that's you know yeah I mean you can you can you can say like no no roof signs and those kind of things which we probably do um but uh on your wall signs yeah you can want it uh you can I mean you could I still maintain and I've said it once I said it here I said it wherever I can take you to places in this state I can take you to places in this County where the community sorry I don't know if I'm getting where the community has said this is all we accept yeah if you want to build in our town in our community this is how you're going to build it you're going to comply with this and or you can go build next door in in the other community so that that's kind of where this is is that we you know the the Sticky Wicket as it were right now is we have allowed signs on the face of building so it's and changing Midstream is always a little tough am I right well um you know I we've got to look to the you got to look to the future I mean the black the backlit Plexi I agree the the backlit plexiglass signs so before this was done there was a sign that's very tall that you know will remain there till it falls down and he can't rebuild that right but it's a back lit plexiglass sign you know maybe somewhere in here in the ulc we need to address trailer mounted signs because we have a couple well we only have one now we had two now we only have one um you know but that's another little yeah something needs to be addressed because it's they're getting around the zoning and the Cod compliance because it's on a trailer so I guess you know just like this you know we have back we Wendy's has backlit plexiglass signs you know this is something that's been allowed so you know we need to look at well can it be a backlit plexiglass sign within our Dimensions right or can it you do we want to well there and there are going to be some things that you're going to say okay that was okay then it's not okay now right um and you know with signs with signs you you can even you know have them phased out over time you have to be brought into compliance over time I I think a lot of the stuff just it stays where it is I'm I'm agreeing with I I agree the uninteresting word needs to come out yeah we need to we need to Define what's in there yeah utilize changes in elevation of roof line or something something like that you know yeah you can look at the roof lines on the next page to to IND I'm saying roof line to promote individuality of storage or something like that yeah get you get rid of the word uninteresting because that like you said that's not a standard that's an opinion well right and right and similarly with two contemporary we have to look at what that actual style is that's that's bothersome you know I mean it's it's like the flat concrete yeah I know but for example if you have you go oh that's really contemporary uh but I got it because I looked at you know uh what they had in Greece 3,000 years ago right I get what you're saying yeah um so not rustic enough I think that's the thing is coming up with a a way to say needs to be rustic and keep pounding that home without keep saying it needs to be rustic yeah and and and I think what it's got to do I I think it's got to do with materials or at least the the appearance of uh the materials as you said stco is not necessarily uh a problem but it can't look like staco good rustic and Rural character yeah we'll have to all right and I mean I I get these unacceptable examples but to me the unaccept really should be listed in like if we're talking about exteriors and veneers and you know exterior finishes then the unacceptable stuff should be listed right there with the approved stuff this is what's acceptable this is what's unacceptable not five 10 pages later these there can be examples you can see c c chart 1.2.5 right uhhuh yeah and well for examples and and go moving on to the the next page when you look at the appendix um they they've got this appendix contains examples of Colonial Country Bungalow Farmhouse Victorian these are all Residential Properties that they showing they're not you know so okay uh the rural Vista guidelines nobody is intending to to make that a residential standard right it's all supposed to be a commercial standard so um if you're going to if you're gonna try to describe um what colonial is um you need to put it into a um we need to into a commercial into a commercial perspective right we need to change the images yeah well change the images and describe what you mean there um because the country I I look at this and and I and I am no expert I can but uh you tell me the difference between country and rustic yeah no I get what you're saying and actually someone very similar yeah you look at the country and then The Farmhouse and the r like you said it's very similar you even draw a line to the to the the Victorian yeah and so what we want I've never seen a bungalow with with exposed rock on it which yeah um but uh but anyway I I I think we've got to put these take these ideas and put them into a commercial context right and we'll try to find some uh some examples of that and and once you put them into a commercial context then you can uh Define it more yeah verbalizer what what it is that that makes it that way well I was just thinking you know the backlit back lit plexiglass signs what about the gas stations though because if they don't have something out by the street even if it's small and not huge letting you know how much their gas is and that's kind of not fair for the business I agree that this ugly thing here with all the list of businesses there but we do have to have some sort of little bit of leeway where a business can have something that's going to help them out without being ugly and well I think that's that's where after we get done doing what we're doing with this I mean I I I I think it can be fairly quick I don't think this is going to take years right we don't doing this then we can say Direction like LED out sign or something that they can at least have you know show their business we take a look at the we could say we want to take a look at the sign well yeah and I think what Ro to me Robert what you're what you're getting at is there are some things that we think are so utilitarian like the price of gas I want to know that I can get it for $312 here rather than pulling into here and finding out it's $345 cuz you didn't put up a big sign well not a big sign but something at least that you can see yeah I know but now and once whether you're giving me 99 Cents whether my coffee is 99 Cents or $129 I don't you don't really need that on a sign and you know and I think that's that's where we get like you look at the back lit place glass sign and I think what we're saying is yeah there are some things that are utilitarian that we need to make sure that's that's kind of Vital Information you know because we are price conscious on on those kind of things um but if you're having a sale at Publix I don't really care no I agree with that yes burning through these pages I love it I think your idea of finding actually businesses and commercial that has rustic look to it more like that Indian Town McDonald's and maybe some bigger building like you said the John Deere place looks great you know because it's Rural and it fits the character yeah that could be made into any size pretty much mhm I mean even though the the front of uh well it's not open anymore the front of Gander Mountain that's a big warehouse but you know the front of it was beautiful yeah you know what I mean yeah gave front of Bass Pro it's it's yeah it's I think there's examples out there we just got to hunt them right yeah and uh well and then the all right the tractor supply for example you know it's close yeah it's close it yeah it's not a close give close yeah it's honestly it's not what you figure when you think Tractor Supply but then you remember and I've seen Tractor Supplies it's just a box yeah so I I think we've gotten a little more out of Tractor Supply than they normally do I mean I've seen them move in they you know okobe they moved into an old like Jefferson's or something like they moved an old shopping center you know and it looks like it's in an old shopping center but this one you know with the with the uh lack of better term the walls sconsin ex your wcin stuff like that and they've done a they've done a better job than most I think my opinion yeah it's this is this is a a standard that uh would need a great deal of definition but uh it's almost like I almost think what we're going for is yeah you could Envision that I would bring my horse here right and people will yeah no I I I get that but I think you know is that sort of like what we're when we when we talk about all these things you go like yeah and my horse would not be out of place right well I've seen places that they put hitching posts up even if they're never used just for deoration yeah just because it gives you that that feeling or so yeah well yeah you you go into you know historical downtown areas and stuff like that and it's still cobblestone street Brick Street you know north of here we don't have brick here but you know brick streets you know and it's still you still get that feeling like wow this thing has been here since 1920 right 18 yeah it you know you get that feel and they get that that warm like I'm home small town small southern town field yeah I think that's the what's trying to be maintained here yeah and and and I think that does go to um and and we've missed the mark But the idea that things are pedestrian friendly or they feel like they're pedestrian friendly you know and that and that there's connectivity and and that there's connectivity between uh the the places you know rather than okay that's an office and there's an office over there and even though they're 500 yards away I'm going to drive my car because that's the only way to get there right not you know it's not inviting for you to walk yeah I'm not going to just Meander over from one place to the other I walk from public to Tractor Supply all the time but I don't think I'm going to walk from Wawa to Culver I have yeah it doesn't feel good no no that's exactly it's there there's there's nothing inviting about it you know um and when the medical uh when the medical office uh gets done I'm not going to to go oh uh you know my cholesterol wasn't so bad so I'll walk over to Culver right exactly that's you're exactly right I'm going to celebrate with a milkshake I might do that but I'm gonna drive through the drive-thru right but yeah I I listen I think the color palette is pretty generic it's pretty on point I guess Pantone is white because there's no color in that box p P 155 454 yeah you know Pantone gray they all say Pantone even the Colors oh that must be the brand it must be the brand yeah so but you know 454 gray gray is actually gray one is very white um yeah I think they're just going for natural or I mean maybe we could revisit this with some kind of Pantone in business anymore I I think we you know we have to sure Williams we'll find the local paint store I know there's a sherwi Williams in town I to yeah we don't even need to specify Sher Williams 454 I think it just needs to be no it's it's that yeah it's that tonal color yeah um because I don't know that we want to be promoting business solely at sh well you know and that that is a question as to to whether the the color is a is a part of this you know is that something that you think is part of the guideline you want to see Miami blue and pink do you hey Wellington like that it's Meer blue and pink Mr Myer he's turning over right now I think that I think it's it's exactly what it's called it's like it's it's Meisner blue I think that's actually a thing yeah yeah the Meisner pink well if you recall you could not build anything in Wellington unless it was that color I Checkers was not black right when I worked there at 19 years old was yeah the sign it had the pink yeah yeah yeah it had the pink yeah Art Deco yes the checkers has been there that long actually I just I just side note I was I was at McDonald's at 441 in southern I worked there when I was 16 right and I just realized that McDonald's is over 40 years old like I'm 50 and I worked here when I was 16 was crazy funny yeah that shopping center been there it just it doesn't seem like it's been that long yeah yeah well nothing does when it's uh part of your life see just like yesterday my mom and I were hopping in the VW Bug and going to Military and Southern to get to get groceries with a cooler so yeah I think the color palette I mean yeah I think it's a guideline if they I I think they make them get a variance if they want to change if they want to do a different color but I think this is a a baseline you guys agree yeah yeah I think different grads you can do too I think we'll have to get yeah we just get a we'll have to get some updated you know uh but it's in that subdued range is what we're talking but nothing extreme or bizarre colors exactly yes Earth Earth Tones Earth Tones I'm thinking that yellow is a bit bright it's letting the Key West the Key West Paladin there was one house painted a bright yellow you could see them Southern yeah and then one year just changed yeah so I I think well appendix C is just examples you know I mean maybe find some updated drawings but I I think all that is that's something is that's almost definitional so that right when people refer to uh you know a a hip roof being acceptable we know what we're talking about yeah so I think that's boilerplate I think the vegetation I think maybe we get an updated list just to just to verify maybe something that was on here that somebody deemed Once Upon a Time was native is not native anymore maybe yeah we we well and what we want to take a look at is the the standards in 87 to see where right and then and then we're going to add the the invasives a list of inv of the prohibited right yeah and they and and as you'll as you'll note they do have um you know uh the trees that they oh there you go based on that's not that's based at maturity you know oh that's right yeah this is base of maturity so it doesn't give you a gauge of what's right and again just because of experience I I I'm pretty sure IR or Land Development that PBC has that they have minimums as to minimum gauge standards yeah put well there's also safety Factor like you the coconut trees dropping coconuts the Royal Palms when they get huge dropping those giant royal palm branches the Queens the Queens are nasty the Queens get we got them in our office they're dirty yeah they they a big old Spike comes up seed pod comes down and it lets loose and it was almost as bad as the the duck that was you can you can picture somebody getting pierced yeah yeah every once in a while I come to work and they got a caution tape around s because we're waiting on the waiting on the guys to come trim the trees it's almost as bad as the duck that was pushing eggs out of the Scupper hole that was 20 foot in the air yeah that was interesting um this thing's accept acceptable businesses I think it'd be easier just to put an unacceptable business I don't I don't think you realistic guy I in in my opinion your your AR chitectural guidelines do not get into what the business is um you know well if you read the first sentence it just says could be developed on Southern Boulevard Corridor which would not require sewer and water which is totally against the building code now yeah yeah um so I think we get rid of appendix yes or we could swap appendix e for the prohibited list no we just we just uh we just it out because you know um no I meant the prohibited list of trees oh you're not going to jump to F yeah I got you yeah no yeah yeah not proh business e can be reused um see where we at uh f this is all boiler play too these are all yeah and and what we would when we get more verbose in explaining what the standards are um we'll review to see what definitions need to be in there versus you know right I mean if maybe some can come out right let's see pendix G materials so I mean we could add you know well it's got stone wood texture concrete horizontal lap sighting wood texture concrete simulated board and batten that's all Hardy Board stuff for lack of a better term I know that's a brand but it's common Uh Wood horizontal app sighting wood board and Baton texture concrete block no stuck up so that's kind of like what they did on outside of Aldi they they used they used a split face block so it has the appearance of stone but it's actually a structural concrete block obviously that looks pretty good if think yeah it it looks yeah so that that's what that that is um textured block yeah but I guess we're allowing stucco now so so I don't we probably need to visit that yeah I mean it does say I mean I would I would because you say no stucko but like we were talking about before they do have simulated lap sighting and stuff with stucko now yeah I'll talk to Jack about yes yeah well it says concrete with simulated wood texture so that's kind of like what we're talking about yeah concrete well yeah I think that's more um sometimes when they pour these these tilt walls they'll actually build in whatever design feature whether it be art little Arch like like reveals in it and stuff like that and different uh yeah elevations you know um depths in the in the in the face of it they form that in so when they pour the concrete and they pick it up it's already there and they just they basically put a smooth coat on it so but yeah if that's maybe we just go concrete Tuco on both of these right and that's an easy way to define what we're trying to say right do you agree or concrete slash designer stco or I I I just think SL duckco because you're you're want tuo horizontal slid uh siding I think the simulated board and Baton see the problem is I don't think one of these or either of these like depicts that cacious board you know to name list it starts with the letter H you know what I'm saying because it it I don't think that's what this is entailing I think it's more what we're talking about the wood textured concrete simulated board and batten so that would be like you put you put your stucco stops up and it's made to look like lap siding right so I think that covers the stucco well if we put stucco in there can we say like not um knockdown or something like that you how that knockdown look but I think you don't have to put the not knockdown look because it says wood textured you know wood textured simulated board the only difference is it really isn't doesn't look wood textured because it's not because it's smooth but it looks I'll I'll try and get some pictures and I'll bring it from a yeah well I think you're covering the the not knock down or the no knockdown thing with the simulated lap lap board because you're not going to do knockdown on that flat and you're also saying that if it's it can be simulated stone and brick it's not it doesn't just doesn't have to be real brick or real Stone because we now have the ability to to fake all that pretty well yeah I guess yeah so I guess where I'm going is these two can kind of combine or whatever maybe we can do simulated yeah real simul s s know cacious simulated b b and you know and just list what can be simulated I think that would be prescriptive enough yeah or you could use the real stop or yeah or you yeah or you can use the real Stu yeah see I again I think you know Sim S sim under window and building trim this can be simulated as well because you know you're not going to you know what I'm saying you're not going to go and attach cedar or pine just to get that trim on the outside of a concrete building yeah but if we have the simulated wood Etc I think we're going to have a lot more teeth and be able to have it a little more accepted you know yeah it' be easier for them to do because they already know what it is and they can hire Crews that can are professionals at that right you agree yeah as long as they don't do the other things I mean well that's what we're defining everything they can do and and then other things we we can make a prohibited list yeah you know what I'm saying but I think just saying you can only do pine seedar PT Pine w a trim around your window is you know only if you you're saying only if you simulate the real product in the concrete yeah I would say or simulated yeah right yeah or simulated X Y and Z you know what I'm saying because that way they can put the band on the outside that decorative band and they can simulate it with color or whatever they the case may be right because the first I mean I'm just trying a devil's advocate I think the first argument is going to be well that stuff's going to rot even if I use cedar right over time it's going to rot if I use PT over time is going to rot so and honestly I don't know that it would even look like what we're trying to get done so we can make them simulate yeah what we want roof cladding 5 crimp corrugated steel metal metal shingle gallin steel coppers standing seam yeah we want to we don't want simulated tile I think I think this is good do you guys think it's good we don't want shingles and we don't want concrete tile correct right so you need to find what because they have excuse me they have metal roofs that look like Barrel tile roofs right we don't want that no we don't want Spanish tile right and you don't want the old flat tile what about though what about sleep that's see that's the thing yeah you could do slate slate is a very rustic feel to it it's not really Florida but it's very you know but they have a simulated Cedar Shake right now oh really yeah I mean it looks when you stand back and look at it it's it's you know the metal yeah it's the metal but it's looks like it's actually composite composite yeah it's composite it's a plastic I think I got sample the AL over here yeah it's it's it's composite um it's plastic so it lasts it's got a fire RAR to it you know I think with with commercial buildings you have a hard time with cedar Shake anyway because of the whole flame spread issue yeah but I think with the composite you can so I think we could add composite shakes that'd be interesting I know and do we want to add slate tile sure that way we get a little little little variance and not having everything and having a metal roof on it now is there going to be a shingle that I'm going to be able to use to make it look like slay tile no okay no shingle yeah I I understand you where where I'm going is like okay you know all this stuff that we're simulating is is there a product out there that is going to simulate slate because I don't think anybody's going to put slate well there there is yeah I don't think anybody's going to do slate it's it's kind of cost prohibitive it's kind of expensive um but I think the shingle that comes close to simulating that doesn't I think it's it's astronomical too okay they'll they'll go metal I think before they did that just because it's so is so much it you know they tout it as like it's really thick right but isn't there metal that imitates that now too well jingle no metal that looks like it's almost like slate or the I've seen it that looks like rock barrel I've seen the ones that look like they actually have the shape of an like a you know Barrel tile roof yes and panels that go up well and maybe the maybe the solution too is you um you put in the possibility of somebody coming in with an alternative but it has to be specifically approved right it would have to go in front of a board and yeah you could you absolutely you could Define here any any alternatives need to comply with this list yeah so if you find a composite slate yeah if we have slate on there and you find a composite slate and if you then that would be applicable right they can so would be yeah there'd be some sort of procedure either on an individual basis or on a global basis um to modify the the list but but you would have to you'd present that product and say yeah that works you know to a board that would say yeah that that is what we were talking about we just didn't know it had been invented right well that's the whole thing it changes so quickly and yeah some things they have out now that they could submit go wow wow that looks really nice yeah you know I didn't even know about that like he's talking about the roof material I never heard of that before do you know Tesla makes tiles solar roof tiles yeah they're very expensive I've heard of H solar sheets so for the roof but not no this is they're actual tiles they're like this big and they CL they clip on instead of having a big Mount there's still mounting system right but instead of having that big panel so just it looks like it's roof it looks like rooftop yeah it looks like they're they're St they're you know staggered lapped and everything yeah wow can only imagine how much that cost yeah yeah it is let's see I I think uh we can add like cacious planks composite oh I'm sorry I'm on POS and columns composite I think we could you could put composite on there almost everything U what about steel columns decorative like decorative how I don't know just round steel columns yeah I mean I mean I we don't just that's what I'm saying decorative meaning like or you could put or eight or something like that where it's not pigeon hold to a concrete column with a simulated wood around it right if you could utilize a steel column that was fabricated and and was you know I don't know I know it's not the French quarter but I'm just saying you know you there's there's or you say no no steel I mean if they have decorative steel columns can be submitted too for approval that's true that's true because like you said there's so many new things out there they might have some gorgeous steel columns and go wow that looks really neat you know looks really nice I'm trying not to leave as much to interpretation and variance because depending on who's sitting here all right right the the the the variance is going to go before the pzb and they're going to say oh it's a new product okay well reaches the intent it's going to go here and maybe doesn't really you and I are going to be standing thinking we did this do it me you know that's not what the intent was and well that's why with those steel columns you could end up with just those round well that's that's what I'm saying ornate or decorative instead of just a steel column if you say just a steel column you're going have you know a painted red Iron steel column right or post there paint how you word it ornate or decorative no plain steel post right something like that because I mean you could take if you're so inclined to you Steel which I I might be too expensive but you're to so inclined you steal to to make the front porch Everglades and you use you or aluminum right because they have structural aluminum right so you you use aluminum or steel to make that porch so it was sustainable and was going to last and wasn't you know you didn't have wood or something was going to rot and stronger than plastic right right and you're G to paint it white you're G do this so you know from from here it's going to look exactly like what we're talking about you know what I'm saying right that's kind of that's kind of where I'm going right leave leave it on the apply for a variance if you want something besides composite cous planks and then what they have here the concrete with simulated wood or Rock texture yeah yeah there you go or rock or stone they use Stone a lot stone stone um P trailing wooden I think we need to broaden that a little bit this could be composite too composite is it is it wooden or looks like wood yeah like like the uh composite decking and stuff that looks just like wood yeah yeah I mean but is there is there another look uh on the porch railings other than a wood wooden look that you would be after that kind of goes along what I was just saying about the the steel the steel or aluminum rail made to look like I think the idea is though if you go if you say aluminum right or you say steel then you're G to get that straight bar the Stray Styles right and it's not going to be that we have to have something that points back and goes that complies with this this guy guideline over you know what I'm saying yeah you're not just going to put a pool fence across there right the metal yeah like what you get I mean because you see that at many many you know you go to dayc carees and whatever you see other places they got just thatum fence up remember all these rails have to meet a certain requirement anyway you want pounds of pressure etc etc so right you know even I mean some of them are decorative like across the front here is decorative right there's a shrub on the other side but it's keeping you falling in the sh so it has to be that that pressure requirement so I mean no I think we start there like simulated wood or composite you know and then we can visit but I think I think some of this even some of these appendixes are going to have to point to certain sections for clarification as to the appearance you know what I'm saying yeah I do am I making sense J yes no no you get what I'm saying am I doing all right yeah I'm not SM I will I promise turn the camera off turn the camera off quick so and then now we got outside lighting I mean yeah I mean this what I say you know tractor driver Supply they they they came close the the lights on the outside of their building are very close to this you know um you hate to say oh I need architectural approval on everything but like most of the lights that we have now are all the LED flat you know we don't even have this like the ones alongside Boulevard right we have a hard enough time fighting to keep that that Lumen level down you know get that uh was it not the photo test but there there's a there's a you know a test to make sure that that thing is only producing enough light like because we have a light requirement how many Lum yeah same same concept we're trying to keep that level down because I mean I don't know if you noticed but maybe not right here but you go a little bit farther west and you turn around you just look and you know stop the car get out and look East oh it's lit up there's a there's a hue right over Royal pal that Hue used to be further east when I was a kid that Hue is all those parking lot lights all all those light it's not just the car lights you know that that Hue is generated by all these lights that are on and the idea is to keep that level down so we're not with the light pollution and whatever not to mention you know even with the buffer until that buffer grows in we're talking about trees ear until that buffer goes in and gets thick right whoever's behind you see it or across the canal from you you got a barn with a ton of lights on it that point out the road or whatever point out in the yard it looks like a landing trip you know so it's it's we deal with that with neighbors even I when I was a kid everybody had the FPL pole you know light like stuck to a tree or on a on a pole right you know that you render from FPL now it's a yard light you know only light in the yard but uh yeah I think I think we need to I would I would like to table this one to these lights to see if we had we could come up with some more examples so we can broaden this a little bit because I think you know or if we find you know or if we wanted or say no this is the style light we want to have there's so many other Styles now I know especially they'll have the Styles similar to this that will incorporate the LEDs exactly which this page um 50 right okay outside lighting yeah that's right good help all right right um future meetings um so we need to set a date right well yeah and let me tell you where we would like to be going um I think at the at the next meeting what we want to uh be looking at and I don't know whether it'll be complete whether it'll be sections is the new document okay um and I can tell you uh that we are not going to be in a position to give you a new document on December 9th uh well we already discussed nth earlier there's a conflicting thing that week with e on Wednesday right and and we've got we've got potentially um the U agrotourism on the on the 16th oh okay so what what I'm getting to and it's it's a matter of lot a lot of things what what are uh we don't we don't have five people to to hand this to and uh we've got we do have the the holidays coming up we're U we're behind with this meeting happening now instead of uh last month so I think what we're looking at is January meeting um otherwise we're going to be throwing something together and it's uh yeah I don't think we want to throw I think it I think I think we're ready to hopefully get you something that's got some meat to it okay because you guys have given us great input and and one of the things that we're going to have to do in analyzing that input is go like all right let's go back to meeting see what they really said right right because I got notes and sami's got notes but so we're supposed to be or the intent is to be second Monday second Monday so we're looking at January 13th right that'll be the second Monday yeah of January it's okay on my calendar yeah that's good I I I I think yeah I think the the looking to okay I make a motion that we table or we postpone the December meeting because we're already behind or we postpone the December meeting till January to the 13th of January due to the restrictions of uh what was that Milton hurricane Milton and the tornado the hit took up some time plus Veterans Day so I think we we lost some time so yeah you have a second second all in favor oh you you want to do roll call all in favor I I motion carries okay and just a brief announcement I did send out an email to all of you guys about the uh planning workshop for planning officials I know Mr Austin responded to that and he's registered to attend so far and I wanted to know if you can't decide tonight it's November 12th and it's it's an all day thing at least half the day it's November you mean December 12th no it's November 22nd oh okay because you said November 12th email sent an email about December 12 it's November um 22 November 2 a while yeah two or three weeks ago so it may have gotten jumbled up with all of that um hurricane um where is it I don't know plan zoning training right yeah it's a Planning and Zoning officials training so I don't know exactly where it is but it is in palmb County so yeah I guess I guess what I might already be we'll Rec contact you to tomorrow and let you details let me know there's a possibility I might be attending the meeting is for planning officials elected official and those according to um various planning and zoning boards or over planning boards architectural boards things of that nature let but I need more inform information because I said I agree to go but I didn't get anything back about what time you got to be there or tickets to get in or anything or I just registered you so I'll um I'll provide all that information to you guys problem so I'll follow with you thank do you need me to sign a blank packet or do you have I'm GNA provide that to you at the next meeting so it's a clean copy with the edits that were made yeah oh that's right we have the correction right all right cool um all right so I guess at the committee members comments section of the meet of the night so Karen do you have anything ladies first no no comments noome sir I think I think we're doing good too sorry we you know the new guy wasn't here I'm sorry I came late I don't know why I didn't have this on my phone because I talked to Sammy about it and I agreed and I don't know what happened I just happened to search up on my I mean sent me he sent me the email am not saying you didn't me I just happen to because I I that certain email I have the notification I just happen to search up and it's like oh because I've been asking since I think last week I'm like what's going because I'm like did I miss it no if I missed it Sammy would have texted me and said would text for you text that's that that yeah because with the spam out there in the world man it gets lost true all right so uh that being said we've confirmed the next meeting we got a you have a motion to adjourn second all in favor I moved he seconded all all right thanks you appreciate you