##VIDEO ID:fjkS9eI-XZo## I drew it up the way all I haven't done it I actually live here in the gr and uh I want them to generate some money so I get my road paid because I've been waiting over 20 years to get my road paid we're gon serve up about 170 generation we City we got to have money not going to be like the rest these people that are coming in his store it's the same 10 people every time everything they try and do here we're not all with that e e e sorry about that guys I have no G August 6 welcome to order everybody behave yourself tonight I no okay if we can all stand for the pledge of aliance please to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for and just a moment of silence council member Shore pres council member danowski here council member manilia is absent vice mayor Herzog here mayor Kane present Town manager ramilia here Town attorney early present okay just for a matter of course order of the evening we're having posit judicial meeting so we'll do that before we consider additions or deletions to our regular agenda six o'clock just making sure do we accept do we have an accept public comments on the additional before it occurs or does that happen after their presentation uh this is um a meeting that was requested by the applicant they um have asked to present first um and then hear from Council and then open it up to public comment so that was their request um I did receive um a public comment um via email so I'll announce that when you're ready okay so CL digal means that Council will be very limited on what comments they can make um at the end of this meeting they can ask questions only for inform additional information but can't really ask questions because this is an application that might come up for us in in front of us later correct Tanya if I'm correct in what I'm saying I just want to make sure we all know the rules before we start right mayor so I I'll will I will reiterate what I said the last time that this item was up and that is um currently the code has a provision that forbids exp parte Communications and so what that means is that the council members cannot speak with um an applicant about their application outside of a formal um meeting that's been properly advertised essentially and that's why um the applicant is here presenting in this particular setting um to for today's purposes we're not having a formal Hearing in the sense of swearing in Witnesses and doing um cross examination and those types of things but we wanted to make sure that we notice it so that anyone who may have an interest could show up and have an opportunity to be heard so I would recommend that you allow public comment of course um but it is up to um the council as a board to determine where on your agenda you would like to see that okay I I do need to disclose that I got a call from a citizen about three weeks ago to come over for a glass of one which I did and at that meeting they they had met with representatives of Bo and they shared their opinion and information with me but I don't feel like it impedes my ability to make an impartial decision I'm just disclosing that that discussion was had thank you for disclosing that do I need to read the wine was good do I need to reiterate my disclosure I believe that you stated it at the last uh upon the last occasion yes um and if nothing has changed I think you can just uh refer back to that meeting refer refer to it by reference and I think you're okay okay so I will State for the record that I um disclosed you know again a a chance introduction to someone who said they were with Bo and there was no discussion there was no anything and I believe that was a June meeting anyway very well and yeah it doesn't I I can be impartial no no I had cookies Robert you have something yeah the last uh workshop for this event I recused myself because I owned a piece of property on C Road South of okobe that I sold in April so since then I sent an email to the ethics commission and asked their opinion on whether or not I could participate and they said yes I could so that opinion is available at the Town the clerk has a copy it's also I'm sure on the ethics website so that's why I'm here today and I wasn't here last time thank you thank you okay I think you guys can begin now thank you thank you very much we're delighted to be here we thank you for coming out in the rain and an hour early to hear us and be with us we um have been looking forward to this evening we want to tell you that we want it to be informal we'd like to have your input guidance um we have have enjoyed working with the town and we've done a lot of work since our last conversation with you all we're here tonight to present what we've learned um we took the time to come and meet with as many representatives of the town that we could to find out what they liked what they disliked um what could be improved what the needs were and quite frankly we got some really great input and we have modified our proposal immensely and we're excited to share some of those things with you tonight um we have worked hard to create some visuals that we think helps identify and frame the theme of our project and gives a little bit better understanding I'd like to share that with you tonight um it's a 3D rendering and afterwards we'd like to kind of leave through what we think or things that we've listened to things that we've incorporated into our proposal that are different and we think um help make it all the better we also want to go through some slides to talk about the value ad to the town we think that we want to be good neighbors we've mentioned that before and we think we've got several items that we think will enhance the way of living here in the town and be beneficial to everybody involved after that if you're good would welcome um public comment but before we do that I'd like to have we could a little conversation with you as things that you questions you might have and some ideas that um to help guide our next steps and then um after public comment um I'd like if you would kindly give us three or four minutes to kind of respond to any public comment or any questions that they may have that we might be able to address tonight I know that's a lot in the next 50 minutes but we'll try to Endeavor to get through it but again we thank you for your time and for considering the project with us tonight so I'd like to begin with a little 3D video that we had rendered and it's not complete the buildings in this rendering are just sketch up they're not complete but I think it gives an idea of the feel the theme and the sense so as we begin the little RV presentation this would be the new road C road that would be pave that we would improve coming up to our entrance C Road would stop at the canal would not go across it' be a dedicated roadway to the front of our community this is coming up and our the the thought is to keep the tree canopy is intact as as much as we can this would be the entrance more the rural theme that uh was much appreciated and desired by the community the entrance road going into our entrance um we'd have some Retention Ponds for storage of our waters on site um you see a little parking area up in the front for our guest as they arrive and their and their guest this is the entrance on to an echo hybrid Greenway Trail this is something we'd like to Showcase and make it very uh very interesting piece for the town that would be noted to be the Lighthouse of the trail um pan panoramic of the tree canopy above this is the canal and the and the trail along the the canal we' like to reforest some of that right of way through there you see the burn firm and 100% hedge that screens all the RVs on the other side but we see the Eco Trail as a place to bike to hike to to take your horse um we put some benches we'd want to create some flora and fauna areas maybe some signage um really try to um make it a real amenity for the town something that the community can be proud of this is again going through the trail and it would ring our property the total Trail and our uh pres preservation areas total about eight acres and we would see dedicating that to the town so it would always be there in perpetuity um we think it could be very pleasant very uh a shaded area by reforesting and um I think something that the community could really be proud of see the retention pond in the back would' have some amenity area around that including swimming pool and a clubhouse um all of that we have some other slides be more on the rural theme that we've talked about uh this is the preservation area down on the other end so it gives you an idea and feel and flavor of what we're trying to do um and again try to maintain the the the canopy of the trees and kind of the N the natural feel of the property as it is right now so we have been as I said listening and there were many concerns and we appreciate those because again it made us work harder smarter come up with some better ideas one of the early concerns was what's the visibility and so we want to try to as I mentioned reforest that area along the canal but we also would create a burm three-foot BM and it would be heavily planted with a hedge around the entire site um the Hedge and look at that crosssection you can see connecting Canal Road then the canal the buffer the heavy tree buffer and if you look real close you can see the Hedge and then the RV so the visibility 100% opaque you wouldn't see the RVs um all of that would like to if we can work on that with the building department we would plant the burm area first and try to get that hedge started early while we're constructing the park but in time it should look like down on the right hand slide um would be amenable to a some type of screen wall but we'd rather spend the money quite frankly on heart on the landscape and improve that to be more of a softer Greener feel than than type some type of fence um again the idea is to keep it natural um but I think it acts as a real buffer uh that works extremely well we have we're approximately about 100 feet from the edge of the pavement to the back of an RV when you add up the distance of the canal the setback the the buffer area Etc this another little slide that shows a little more detail of the the forested buffer the Hedge as well as the RV and over to the right is the lighting the lighting levels would be kept low our poles would be about 15 feet in height uh to keep the low lying Light low um and provide enough illumination for our RVs and our guest but not to light up the entire property like a football field or Raceway or something like that so low-level light um again protected by the buffer we changed up the architecture to match in accordance with the guidelines of the Town more of a rural AR architecture we'd see metal roofs porches railings that uh are in keeping with the architecture of the Town not that you're going to really see it but our guests will enjoy it and um we think again it keeps with the desire of the town and made that adjustment accordingly we have a handful of buildings that will be on the campus um from a an entrance building to a couple community centers um and a bath house Etc but all would fall in this type of architecture what we're not is a rundown mobile home park or RV park just to be clear we're catering to the more expensive class a motor home coaches uh over to the left um our clientele um has desire to kind of be in this area we've run a market study that shows a tremendous demand for that type of clientele here uh in the Palm Beaches there was a question about what happens to residential values surrounding an RV park um Margaritaville is a big RV Resort over in the Auburn Dale area and we actually looked up and tried to find some comps of residential homes uh in and around the park when the community started the value of those homes uh were in about the $180,000 range after the park was constructed built and operated the value actually increased those values are about $100,000 more granted it was over a three-year period but I think the key thing here is that those values did not go down and uh there's that it's not just this one case study there's about three that we found uh that uh transacted uh and you can see the value in increase so no negative impact if the if the park is done correctly and well um the other couple of questions that came up that we've tried to address and I think we made this point last time but there will be no permanent addresses ever given to any of our guest the limit is six months we won't have any mailboxes there won't be any address that's ever given to any of our residents if they need mail service they're going to have to go outside of our Community but we will not offer that as uh one of our features the other question was how do you know who's coming into your Park so what we've decided is we'll run background checks on anybody that has a desire to stay more than 30 days um much like you would do if you were renting a home will run credit checks and backr checks on those guests little difficult to do for somebody that wants to stay a week or a few days but somebody that's intends to stay longer than 30 days will run background checks we also heard comments about what's the impact of crime and noise so we checked here locally and we looked at what happens down at um uh the KOA at Lion Country there were 21 uh calls for police over the last 12 months um the majority of them or half of them were just routine police checks where the the police officer just routinely rode through the park there were four calls that were accidental 911 calls um there was two that were actually calling for some help but there was only one out of the 21 that that called for some specious uh suspicious uh incident that they were concerned with so very small impact uh for the number of guests uh there at Lion Country and we would expect the same on ours we also checked with the code enforcement people about noise and there were four cases in the last uh 12 months um as we stated earlier it's important for our residents to be able to sleep well and easy at night too and we're going to have some pretty strict guidelines uh that you'll have to adhere to and be well managed on our property so we're going to do our best to make sure these code enforcement issues are minimize if if none for real yeah none of these actual cases here were for noise all these were um other code enforcement issues but really none of them were for noise so again we don't think that's going to be a major concern in our community at all we also talked at length about traffic and egress and the thing that we like about this particular property is that sea Road does not go across the canal and that sea Road will be primarily used for our property as well as solar Sports uh a little bit further to the to the West as well as maybe someday our neighbors here uh property up in the front for commercial so what we like about that is direct access to Southern Boulevard directly into our property no impacts to traffic throughout the rest of the town most movements again are going to go out to Southern Boulevard and then go to their destinations we would be happy to dedicate a piece of our property and work with the adjacent land owners if the town desires to extend Tangerine over to um d Road and happy to dedicate lands ac across the edge of our property and participate in that we uh also would welcome if the town so desire to talk about putting another light on Southern bulevard that would probably be very helpful to the school and it would allow left-hand turns out on Southern Boulevard if that improves the intersection and helps take some traffic off a b Road some of those movements up there we're happy to talk about that would welcome the opportunity to participate in what needs to be better there there was a a question about how much traffic would be making a uturn on Southern Boulevard as currently there's not a cut at croad so we looked at the number of new guests arriving and departing each day um based on our our occupancy and our um number of trips each day we we're expecting about 12 new guests a day and 12 leaving each day if you think about that um half of those will probably be in motor coaches and the other half will be in travel trailers or fifth wheels the travel trailer in the fifth wheel can't make the U-turn so they would have to go up make a leftand turn and come around uh into the Wellington side if you will and around past to school but we're looking at six trips per day or about one every two hours um so the impact is very very small this would of course go away if we have the light and the signal so we think that it's a a minimal impact yes an impact but very very minimal um one of the other things is that the just the level of traffic and service if you consider all commercial on our site um it's like 1,400 Peak traffic hours I'm trips I'm sorry versus recreational which is 33 times as less so very minimal impacts uh to the roadway systems um based on this type of use it was also concerned about how does our development impact those that have um currently have um RVs on their particular home we're catering to two different types of Market um there's definitely some distinct differences our limit on our stay is six months some of those will be monthly some will be daily and overnight the if you look at the dollar income we're probably going to be about three times as expensive we're offering a lot different type of property in terms of amenity featur swimming pool all of that that has to come back in the rate um so we think we're too different types of property uh offering and we think that we won't we won't be taken away from any of the individual residents Town income coming from leasing some spaces on their property for RVs again it's an entirely different clientele um between the stay time and the the rate we think it's again going to be two distinctive types of living one of the things that from a planning standpoint that we think is a I think an advantage to the town in C terms of um step down in intensity and density if you look the red the along Southern Boulevard more of the commercial Zone and and where you're going to have a little bit higher traffic and more dense type of development and Commercial setting we are the kind of if you will the green Gray which is the step down right we're the buffer between the intense to the residential and then you're further buffered by the canal you're limited with your access um we think it's an ideal location uh with the the surrounding areas and land uses we as we talked about earlier are here and proposed to request a land use change a zoning change and as well as our site plan we're going to sub submit those all at one time we intend to then just execute the site plan in accordance with the the zoning um so it's site specific it's for our site only the the documents will be specific to this site we're not here to get one zoning and come back and change it later we're here to get it all approved at one time and it'll be site specific in the zoning will'll say in such that it's only for an RV Resort no other use this would I don't think anybody would want to see this um heaven forbid that someday would go all commercial and we would never like to see that but a big box would be a bad program and almost didn't really want to show that but we think that our our proposed use is a lot better than that so some things that we think are added values to the town I talked earlier about the greenway the Eco Trail and we're really excited about this if we could find um either one of the local colleges or universities to help us uh master plan that would be all ears um we think there's could be some really exciting things done on the trail uh that everybody could use and benefit by we want it to be a premier showcase kind of feature something that the town can all get behind uh in support and hopefully then it would be the the example of what could be done and it would connect it would then spread to other commun other parts of the community and which could be connected and and really be a kind of an exciting thing that that the town could be proud of um the other thing that came up um in our discussion with staff was the need for impoundment area because the water storage uh in and throughout the town is limited there is some property at the end of C Road what we would offer to do is construct a retention Pond there it would be solely for the the town's use not it would contain none of our storm water at all be simply for the town about two acres in size um and I think that coupled with the trail around it could look pretty good we'd also if the town would like we could reserve some land up in the front to have some parking for people that want to get on the Eco Trail um so you could drop your car ride or bike the trail and come back to your car and leave um one of the other things that we came up with and again this was a suggestion by one of the the folks that we met with we'd like to do a farmers market um and we would have that inside of our property and maybe on a Saturday morning throughout the year we would open it up to the entire town have local farmers vendors bring their their produce or their wees to that market um and I think again to could be a special kind of thing it be a great opportunity for our guest and for the rest of the community to be involved in a segue to that too is we're going to have a um a rural Garden or community garden on our property and um we'd like to have some classes um maybe promote a little bit of aggri touris type of stuff where we might have some educational opportunities for families to come learn about Farm to Table um how to how to produce a better crop have some guest speakers from time to time again I think it would be a great opportunity to PR promote more Community Spirit um we really like the idea of the farmers market there was a question about demand and um is this project going to be successful I think this is a really terrific slide this kind of splits the West Coast of Florida and the east coast of Florida if you look on the west coast all the dots or RV parks on the west coast compared to on the East um this further confirms that the independent report that we got from zabic is there's a tremendous demand for RVs and we hope to cater not just to the equestrian although we we agree that that's a real demand during season but we will be um catering to those folks traveling through to see families uh in South Florida um and we we're very confident um the demand is there um and I think this slide demonstrates that very much we've talked about demand and um we're um looking at how we might phase the project if need be we we would have phase one phase two one Point we'd like to make on this though is most RV parks have density of about 12 sites per acre we're are six sites per acre so we're very D we're very light in density compared to to most other RV parks and most most uh most parks are of this size or larger mainly because of the economics and the scale and um we've got the the 47 acres and um we feel like um we've got a lot of men area open areas our own Retention Ponds um the buffer area and we think it all fits very well there was a question about um how much economic benefit would come back to the town and we uh tried to do a projection over a three-year period as to what that Revenue would be that's in the form of AD valorum tax as well as a guest tax that we would pass along directly to the town the ad valorum tax that I'm talking about is specific to the town it's 3% of the total percent right so it's this has nothing to do with what's going to to Palm Beach County this is specific to the town we would in the first year it's about 30,000 net second year 173 and it goes up to about 180 as we build up in our terms of our occupancy but what we've tried to factor in here is the income coming from the ADV valorum tax um there will be some rebate because we'll be using commercial trash service and that is a rebate that that we understand comes back to the town um and then then it'll be the hospitality tax um there are some expenses against that right we're going to cause a little bit more police protection and there'll be some impacts to the roads and and we have to work out how you want to handle the maintenance on that trail so we've shown some expense against that but the net dollars to the town would be on the bottom line there 30,000 year one 173 up to about 180,000 annually uh to be used as the town wishes so we think we think that uh hopefully that'll help to improve your your budget needs um and to be used uh as a benefit to the town um one thing we looked at just to kind of put some perspective on it our total lands are about 6% of the total Community the total town and the ADV valorum tax benefits about 4.8% so we think we're doing um our part and trying to help enhance some revenues into the town so I think this last slide kind of summarizes uh what we just chatted about um would like to have just a little conversation with you um number one wanted to see how you would feel about us meeting with the finance committee and further betting out those economic numbers um we've listened to some of their their meetings and think that um some really bright folks on there but if there's a way to enhance or improve um what the finance committee would like to see we want to see if that'd be okay with you if we we set up a meeting to go chat with them or meet with them want see if you could give us some direction on that no objection we appreciate that no I've seen uh seen good comments coming from the committee great that U we could work with great great Robert anything you're okay with it or not okay with it thank you thank you we we'll Endeavor to do that um and the second thing um we have met with with uh staff and they they informed us of some of those things I chatted about the the water retention issue uh the traffic issue um we'd like to maybe talk a little bit more with your planning department and your planning committee um we are planning to make our application on August 26th we've been working hard to to kind of get all of those Basics together but wanted to make sure it' be okay with you for us to reach out to them and begin some conversation um certainly in accordance with the guidelines of the town and through Francine's office with b&z would definitely be a requirement for uh so yes absolutely say with PC I go ahead you go ahead I just I have a question yeah my comment is it's a process you apply then you go through the process like anybody else they're not sitting up here approving any special meetings correct for you to go see p in Z before you apply so if you feel confident then you do what you feel you want to do but uh this council is not up here saying yeah go ahe and spend our town tax dollars and meet with these committees you know you follow the same process as anybody else that wants to do something in the town because this is all cost recovery you apply you pay yes for staff time yes and all that so it's we understand that thank you okay Y and we've been making those payments Madam mayor if I may just for clarification um for the applicant are you proposing to meet with pnz ahead of getting out of the staff review cycle because that would be the atypical process that I think you're looking for correct that that's that better explains it we understand the full process and make an application on the 26 but there are questions and some things that we would like to ask or make sure that we're on the right path before we submit on the 26 so the question was can we reach out get a little guidance maybe share our early schematic is to get some input to make sure that we're heading down the right path we we don't want to waste time we don't want to waste their their effort um and comments we're just trying to you know do things as as efficiently as we can so that was really the ask as to whether again we don't want to we don't want to Buck the system and do something we're not allowed to but we're just wanted to see if we can have some conversation and didn't want to you know again I think Robert's comment still applies as long as the cost is mitigated okay and that's you know that's something went back to the town very good the one question and and I know we're not necessarily supposed to ask questions but this is something that has come up repeatedly with people um and and I think it's it's something that you guys need to consider at some point and maybe in your meeting with pz so if this doesn't work what's your exit strategy we all saw these horrifying pictures of this trailer park and nobody wants a trailer park in the middle of rock I had go so I I don't need you to answer this right now and I don't want yeah I don't want you to answer right now necessarily I like you give some thought to it okay but um you know I think you need to put you know everybody has to have a plan B your plan your plan a certainly sounds wonderful but everybody has to have a plan B sure and I think that if you're looking at increasing the comfort of this Council in this community that of all the things that you did address and you addressed a number of them the one that was not addressed is Plan B Plan B yeah what what happens if this doesn't do what you you know projections are wonderful but what happens if this doesn't do what you think it's going to do what are we what are we left with um and that's like I said I don't I don't need an answer right now I don't particularly want an answer right now I'd like you to give some thought to it it's it's it's very easy not to answer the question but if we have the land under contract and if we don't get this approved then we won't proceed with the with the project so it's not a plan B we won't close on the land well well I understand that I'm not talking about closing on the land I'm talking about you close on the land you build this beautiful RV park and 10 years from now the market falls out of RVs it f they we find out that it's hazardous to stay in RVs and everybody sells their quarter of a million dollar RVs and nobody wants to spend three grand a month to stay at your RV park anymore what's going to happen that that's the plan I'm talking about that's the thing I'm talking about of course we you know should you do this should this proceed and should it get approved we all want you to succeed we want everybody in our town to be successful thank you what would happen afterwards okay that's that's I think something really important that I didn't see address that did come up the last time you were here so again I'm not looking for an answer right now I'm just asking you saying it's something you might consider well I I think I think one of the things too in in submitting all three things at one time there will certainly be Covenant restrictions on what we can do with the prop correct and one of those will definitely be that there will never be a sale individual sale of those those units and we would certainly agree to that um can't happen yeah but I I you know I I I don't know certainly we're in the real estate business and we we understand cycles and it's just sometimes you're going to go through a down cycle but you still hang on to your asset um but that's the r we would take in terms of our it would never change we're making too large of an investment that um that we again that whole Market would have to change right but but I I know and Technology moves on I I don't know how you could ever really but there's about 10 million RVs in the country okay so it I mean it's a big Market it's not just here so so it it would be devastating just great great question didn't see it addressed okay thank you's do a public comment Val and hear what the citizens have to say the residents have to to thank you sure okay uh we received an email today from Lena Hendrickson which will be um attached to the minutes and then our first public comment is from Cynthia Podium I'm sorry this is thank you so I just purchased property on collecting canal and I understand that you've said that you've been speaking to Residents and community members and I'd love to know who you've been speaking to because in my opinion you're not listening you haven't listened to anything anybody's had to said I'm happy that's great because I have concerns because in my opinion I think you'd be a great car salesman because what you've brought to this committee to this meeting today has no value everything you've brought about is speculation so you're saying that you're going to add value to my property and to the other homeowners properties here this isn't Margaritaville I just paid over a million dollars for my property and I'm putting more than a million dollars into it and I would love to see how putting an RV park with 280 spaces directly is going to improve the value of my property now we're going to move on to your point of traffic you say that with 280 spaces people are going to Whole out of your Park no more than what 12 Vehicles a day is that yeah I mean is that that's the usage a Class A no I'm talking a Class A vehicle a Class A because we have one is over 30,000 pounds collecting Canal is a tragedy waiting to happen with my du you're going to have over 30,000 pounds plus whatever vehicle they're pulling up and down that that and don't tell me because I'm an equestrian you're not you're going to be on collecting Canal going from B Road they're not going to go from okobi do you know where the horse show is the hores show is that way that means they come to Southern and they're going to try and access your Park via B Road or C- Road from they're not coming C- Road from okobi Sir that means they're going to be on collecting Canal I'd would like to know where the need for this project is we have KOA I don't even see that they're full if they're not full during season why do we need 280 more spaces and you're telling me that they had 21 calls for police in the last month what do you think they're going to have for 280 spaces during season and from the last 12 months regardless then from 280 do that math and you've also in the past said that you're not going to have anybody on site your plan was not to have any sort of police any for any 24-hour security that's a problem well that's what you said at the last meeting so is that the last time is that all the time that I have because I could go on the last thing you're you're trying to say Echo trails and you want to do a farmers market and you want to put parking at the end of C Road that's not just an RV par that's an entire Enterprise so you can't just say that you're not going to have additional traffic issues or that these properties are not going to be seen from the road so everything you've presented here is a farce and I can tell you for one that I'll take it to court and I know several other people that well thank you thank you for your comment Bianca okay do I have to say who I am and all that no you guys know right yeah I'm Bianca bur at 1 1545 collecting Canal Road I spoke last time already and I guess everybody knows how terrible I think of an idea that is um but but a few of us got together and we wanted to figure out what the rest of lahi thought or at least some of some of the residents because we can't you know we all work full-time jobs and we don't have all the time in the world and we collected some signatures and every person except one for me that I went around and I on my own got I think 90 signatures against this whole thing everybody's sitting there saying what a bad idea we don't want want it we don't want it this is not what we want here um and as Cynthia already said the property values I mean that's ridiculous yeah they're not going to increase are you kidding me whoever said oh yeah I want to live next to an RV park with my horses and all of that nobody has ever said that that's ridiculous and same with the traffic the increase it's I mean it's ludicrous however though I think um the town really does have spoken here um and I have it all all the signatures right here that that's really not what we want so that's are you handing that to us or are you gonna send us a copy or would you can we make a copy yes absolutely y motion to receive and file motion to receive and file favor thank you 15 thank you thank you Ali D comment hi Alie daily I live at 829 C Road um I too just bought that property um just a year ago um and my plan is to um build up on it um so something like this that is a complete shock to me uh definitely would have changed my mind about buying right there um I think everything that you presented today is very aspirational um because we don't have uh really um any proof that this is actually what's going to happen I think it's very hard to just say this is going to happen and that's going to happen it's just it's speculation um I think in reality I think the thing to think about is who are the people that are going to be staying at this park it's mostly going to be groomsmen on season so if you talk about you know the number of people you're adding to this community into that little teeny area during season you know minimum two people per camper is going to be 570 people we all know it's probably not going to be two people per camper let's say four people per camper that's 1,140 people added to our community in that little area and so yeah track traic six campers coming and going 12 in a day that's absurd you know at the beginning of season it's going to be chaos and at the end of the season it's going to be chaos um you know my concern is that because we're so close to the property noise pollution I don't want to hear parties and barbecues going to one o'clock in the morning I don't want to hear that I I you know 15 feet in the air for a light is high that's going to create light pollution that's not why we move out to this rural area we want peace and quiet um you know the thing is you're saying there's a big need for this in the community I'm sorry but I feel like people that are traveling to go on vacation with their campers and their family do they really want to come to Loxy Hai Rose no offense it's a cute town but I would think they'd want to be closer to West Palm Beach or Orlando or places where there's things to do or stay at Line Country Safari um so I don't again I don't think there's really a need for this I don't see a whole lot of benefits about it um the farmers Market's a cute idea I'd love to have our Farmers Market here and not ride across the street from my house um that's going to add a lot of traffic above and beyond the campers that are staying there um we have this he's proposing a a eight mile Eco Trail I don't know anyone that wants to ride their horses on concrete for eight miles so I just think you know I just think it's very irational I don't think there's a lot of need for it from what I've gathered and the 150 or so signatures we've gathered I don't think people in the community want it and I definitely don't think it's going to add property value my big concern is crime you know I'm sorry but with the wide open borders and God knows who coming through across the border and he's not going to have anybody patrolling on the property that's a huge concern to me especially living so close to this thanks thank you for your comment Paul Coleman Paul Coleman 14626 Court North um first of all I appreciate you texting me and reaching out to me and trying to meet with me I was out of town on vacation um you know better leave these on so I can read what I wrote 50 in October folks um so you know you're a real estate guy and it's really disconcerting for you to stand up here in front of us and tell us that the real estate around Margaritaville Rose in three years because and it wasn't affected by the RV park I mean I I'd really love to see what those numbers are it sounds like you know when the radio station says we're number one in palach county and come to find out they're number one in men 65 to 85 um because they play you know uh Warren wel oh sorry that's when I was little um but I just it to in this day and age over the past 10 years I happen to be in in Construction and building you know past 10 years around here all the economies done is increased the value of the land has increased and it hasn't been affected by certain things unless it was really trashy so to say that it hasn't affected it um and say Well it grew $100,000 you know over three years well you know that probably going to happen anyway um you know traffic everybody's hitting some of the stuff I mean three times a rent from a RV lot next to a barn I get that but still less than a house rental in Wellington during season I know people that leave their house and go live with their family because they rent their house out and pay their mortgage in six months so you know standard mortgage for a year paid in six months you know that to say it doesn't it's it's more than less than it won't be accompanied by i i i side with these ladies over here you know um I I fully agree that you know who's going to be in there is going to be Grooms and it's gonna not I have anything against Grooms you know I'm not I can't afford Grooms I would love to have a groom um but you know guys we we we see this every time a developer comes in we see this every time an existing entity in the wants to expand it comes in we get this bottom line I probably don't have to read it but I'm going to read it anyway oh we're going to put a trail in oh if we put a trail in it's good if we put a trail in they're going to approve us I don't know who is saying that but just because you're going to put a trail on the property doesn't mean we're going to approve you just because these folks Robert said it earlier and as you all know it's very rare that we agree but Robert said it earlier you know it's true we do some times it you know yes it's you can apply you can spend your money but again it's real estate speculation there is not a given thing that says that this has to be approved and I think it was plan I think it was said last time I wish I could have got the rest of my list but we all stood up here last time and I really didn't think we were going to have to do this again but we stood up here last time and said we don't want this in our town okay no offense to this gentleman and this gentleman their company we do not want want this in our town not of us not enough of us stood up for Publix for solar Sport and we know what's changed and happened there and wasn't supposed to be this way and now we moved to retention Pond Etc but we're all standing up now there's folks here stand up now we don't want this in our town and I hope sir no offense you get the message thank you and have a nice night thank you for your comment Virginia sish should have a little path on the side Virginia SSH North Road my comments are going to be specific to this project but also to all development um I have not heard any mention on this project and I realize it's preliminary but on other large projects around here I've not heard the status of the wildlife report as part of the permit project step application um and I'd love for Council to get an update from staff and the building official on if that is being done as an example on this property there are gopher tortoises they want an echo Trail great well how about you keep those gopher tortoises because when they're removed at $6,000 of Pop they're just trying to find their way back so any development let's make sure we're doing the wildlife status yeah the trails that's dangling the carrot in front of us and oops can we all say solar sport so anyway um what I'd like to know is this developer is good at what they do all developers are good at what they do and what they do in Florida is they buy land for future land banking okay to we're going to to an RV park and they can't predict if this is going to be successful in 10 years so in 10 years they may have to do what they do well condos apartments that's the future for right now but we need to be mindful of these developments such as the sod form that on January 1 had one Bull on the pro property and got their a exemption and then they come back to us and they say oh we really didn't have to cut all down those trees we just didn't manage the project so two you're looking for strong management of any project that comes before you um this particular property C Road Bridge is currently being used by motorcycle traffic so anything you consider for that parcel and again this project I I'm just I realized it could end up being anything on that land that's why I'm not speaking specifically to the RV because many people have that c Road Bridge there needs to be a sign put up no motor traffic and whatever you do there you're going to have I realize it's supposed to be a horse trail and I support the horse trails in this community I think that should be a priority Any Trail in this community before any more commercial but you need to do something to prevent that se- road traffic that is now coming across on the supposed horse Bridge thank you thank you for your comment anybody else El Jane Harding Jane Harding the road I'm just going to read my comments this uh presentation was like a Stepford Wives version of the country this is not rural this is not country this is Stepford Wives Margarita V's values are in the 1 to 200,000 we're in the over million so an RV park is not going to increase us um traffic not just RVs are coming in and leaving they will have cars to use daily to 285 of the daily we already have a farmers market people already complained about that farmers market that traffic and AG tourism so now you want to add another one and you want to do AGA tourism you know that sounds all appealing to you but we already have it we don't need anymore now paying for the trail maintenance that's what I heard I could be wrong but and then RV Market is a big Market but it's not all Market your tax revenue versus a resident's Revenue will not suffice if a resident has five acres versus RVs being on there I guarantee you your tax revenue will not even come close it's just not a good idea has nothing to do with me being equestrian I want my Trails I want my place I want this country this role in this I don't want anymore thank you for your comment Ken Johnson Ken johnson5 409 collecting the Canal Road how about Pine the sky that's what it looks like to me Pie in the Sky how do you spell traffic traffic and more traffic that's what they going to do to us that's what they want to do to us Southern bulevard in B Road it's congested now there's problems there now when we had 250 plus RV parks and those people need to get out of his Park they've got to go West then they want to turn up B road to go to Publix or come back to Wawa or they're going to have to turn left and make a uturn and go east to get out of that part no we've got problems now second thing light pollution there will be where I live a dome of light over this place for what reason we don't need a dome of light noise pollution are they going to walk around and Whisper I don't think so it's going to be loud so loud on collecting Canal Road and maybe even further in depending on what they do the last thing that I have not heard anyone talk about is where are these people going to eat in other words for them to get food they're going to eat a horse snakes I don't think so horses are too expensive they going to have to they going to have to leave to go somewhere else to eat even to buy snacks they going to have to go somewhere else to get it cuz he's he's not going to sell snacks so all in all I wish you'd go bankrupt thank you for your comments Mr John Laura hello Laura Copo 13593 e Citrus um so I'm probably just going to reiterate a bunch of things but I just one of my feelings heard too um I don't think this fits in the aesthetic of our town I don't think anybody who lives here I'm not going to walk around it in my opinion this looks like hey we've seen a lot of RV ads and they're geared towards equestrians I mean I know that there's other uses for RVs but there's a lot of RV equestrian use in this town there's just no doubt about it so what about taking the money out of the people I know that's this is a big controversy about how many are we can all have and all that stuff but are we really trying to take the money away from the people who already live here and give it to somebody else and I you know I do appreciate that this is somebody else's business but we have zoning we made zoning we have rules and regulations for our town we all have all the Planning and Zoning this isn't part of the zoning of that property and there's a reason because that's not really what we wanted to see there and it's not that you know we can't make exceptions and such but I mean all the carrots being hung in front of people are like how about if we give you this well then you let us how about if we give you this well you let us then well no how about if we just fill up the RV spots that we have and using the people that already live here who already have RV spots and yes it might saturate but there may be more there's plenty of more place to put these people for season if that's what we want and this just isn't part of what we want for all the various reasons that people just said and I there's a reason they're asking us and not Wellington because Wellington won't have it I'm sure um there's plenty of other land if you really want to do it just there's other towns go somewhere else and put it I mean doesn't have be that far I guess you know they have enough money they're doing it here because I mean let's face it we've made mistakes in the past let's not repeat them you know we've let's let's not do what we've already done so I think it's it's seems pretty obvious I mean yeah traffic crime all those things light pollution noise pollution are all issues to the people who are around the area um I'm not I'm happy about that um but it to me it just seems like we're targeting lahache Groves we need more Grooms quarters hey everybody make more Grooms quarters um so we don't have to have an RV park in the middle of our town which we don't want and I think I'm the 40,000 person I don't know if we have that many people um that don't want it in our town so um I appreciate the presentation that I saw I read a bunch about it maybe somewhere else not here thank you for your comment M that's it okay um we've gone over but I'll give you just five minutes if you'd like to finish up before we wrap up this meeting thank you I'll be very brief I just want to try to make some quick responses um number one we're happy to meet with anybody that we've missed or we tried to reach out to if you want to be in touch with us we're happy to have another conversation we want to try to do something something that's win-win um we will have on-site management we'll have about 15 in employees on campus uh to make sure the security and well-being of everybody uh is well managed and the property is maintained secured we will have rules and guidelines for noise um for any of those social activities again we have our residents to take care of internally as well um we're sorry if we offended those on the values what we were trying to demonstrate is we don't believe we haven't found a case in which the property value decreased we're not saying you're going to increase I apologize if I misstated that um we the kind the trail will not be concrete Trail it's going to be set up for multiple use um not not paved um so it will be more of a gravel Trail um or set up for equestrians whatever whatever surface is necessary we're not we're not we we want it to be more than just equestrian use though we want it to be for walking trails and for biking Offroad for like off-road um bicycles um we're in agreement we would not want to see any motorized vehicles on it we um also want to say that that trail would be for use of the community but we'd also like to use it as well so we see it as a mutual benefit we we in terms of wildlife preservation and study we've engaged a wildlife scientist who has done an independent report we have those findings that'll be part of our presentation to the planning department and and we'll follow all the guidelines we did not find any go for tortoises in that report according to the independent study that we we've that we we engaged it's what we have if if if they if they're found then they will we will do what's appropriate what's required in terms of relocation um I think that the car traffic yes when when I was talking about those 12 turning movements that is related to the number of um people that will be leaving the park certainly they're going to have their independent cars and make their own individual trips and again want to just be clarified to clear on be clear on that so the math on that was for guests in their motor homes and their travel trailers uh coming and going from the park um thank you for your time thank you sir a few more signatures that just got dropped off okay if you can give them to the clerk well we're gonna make some copies thank you okay we're gonna take just like a three minute recess for us to use the restroom and then we'll start the regular meeting okay with everybody audio oh oh I didn't oh e e e e e e e e e order and roll into addition if I could ask you to take your conversations out into the hallway we have to get back to our meeting thank you thank you all right additions deletions and modifications anybody have anything staff does okay staff go for um Mr tvia is unable to be with us tonight his plane was stuck in Detroit and he will not be home until late this evening he has asked that we move three items off the agenda one is the HR manual he'd like to be here for this two so could you give me item numbers that yes I can thank you um hold on just a moment so I give you the right numbers thank you um item number 17 we're removing yes okay and then Additionally the discussion on the proposed Culvert special assessment program ordinance number 19 in addition we did just receive in some draft language from our Engineers relative to the last FDA Workshop so the two need to be considered together okay and then the third item is discussion of the social media policy and that is in light of um including employees in that policy um and he would be here to be able to speak to it because this was a Supreme Court decision okay so we're pulling 17 19 and 21 any yes ma'am anybody else have anything not motion to approve the agenda and we moving 17 19 and 21 everything else stays the same all in favor I opposed passes for to zero so we have a presentation from Mr book actually I'm sorry thank you Robert do we have any public comments for first we do do okay I'm sorry Virginia SSH I usually count on her giving me the STI guys after so much public com Virginia Standish 15410 North Road I found the last pnz meeting very interesting where it stay that we have a 35t or three story height for all commercial buildings so I'm asking Council and staff to provide the paper trail of the first public notice since this is a significant change I'd like to see the first public notice change authorizing the change or approval to this three-story height limit we are not looking to see where there was a first reading for something else and then oh it miraculously changed in the second reading I am asking you Town Council to provide the paper trail to show us the public the land owners where first reading public notice was given for this increase in height thank youbody else Cassie sui Cassie sui um I'm going to expound a little bit on what Virginia said the discussion of the height of buildings I sent you all emails on some of the stuff that I had found out it first took place there was a pnz meeting on February 4th of 2021 talking about the self- storage facility and our height restriction was 35 ft nvg D which is a surveyor term I don't know anybody out here is a builder what what the measurement of height is so 35 ft nvg so the discussion was they needed to get an exemption because nvg started the measurement calculations for height at 10 ft at grade so it was actually a two-story building so they were putting in for an exemption on some of the other things for Self Storage then it proceeded to the April 6 2021 meeting where they were reading the ordinance 20212 and it was in that meeting and Robert Shore was mayor at the time and he was very specific Council was very specific that this was site specific that this exemption for height uh exemption was site specific for that he asked the planner the planner said yes there was the discussion of how the uh definition was real confusing and he said why don't we send it back to the ulc but this is site specific and then they went on and they went through the discussion and said why don't we fix it here and without the assistance from staff to explain what they were doing they passed the height of 35 ft throughout the whole town but it wasn't explained to the C Council if you're not a developer and I'm not a developer I wouldn't know the height of my building I don't routinely go out and measure the roof of my building so seeing it's 35 ft you passed it we should have relied on our staff to explain it I don't like I said with Virginia remember any readings but it got passed but I don't think it was the um intention of the council based on the discussion at the April 6th meeting and the May 4th meeting for the approval of the um Self Storage that it was ever to raise the height limit in this town to three story buildings throughout the town so I would ask you guys in future meetings to find out first of all where this was first and second reading to pass and then if it wasn't we need to put it back in the definitions uh the other thing and I got 39 seconds I just wanted to address btrs I sent everybody all the code cases for 2024 and I was amazed at uh all the btrs and how we are taxing our residents for agricultural Bonafide agricultural Industries equestrian Industries okay I think we are a very special town and we need to look into what we are and we can set our own rules we don't have to be like anybody else so we can exempt our agricultural equestrian communities from btrs the nurseries don't have to pay btrs why does somebody who have a horse farm that is a Bonafide egg have to pay a BTR so I think that needs to be Revisited um too we don't want to punish our residents and change change what we are as a town thank you for your comments anybody else Paul Coleman yeah I'm just going off the cuff Paul Coleman 14626 cour north um first I'd like to you know because I get up here and I I get I've been accused of being negative a lot um I like to say uh thank you to the uh Public Works I always want still call them water Control District um the water's flowing it's been raining and the water's flowing I don't feel like I'm stepping in a mud puddle everywhere I walk on my property so thank you very much appreciate it um you know I don't mean to piggy back too bad but I I I I hope yall are hearing us I think you're hearing us about this whole thing I mean there's a lot of stuff in there that just doesn't doesn't jive whether it's traffic security Etc you know I just don't I realize that you know there's people in the town that stand to make money off this thing and whatever and and and I I hate to turn it down because of that because I hate to but it's just not for us especially since it's still I don't care what you Zone it but it's still a commercial entity and Commercial is supposed to be you know um south of change rine we've already things have happened with the Brier property and solar sport stuff like that that have pushed it where it shouldn't be um and you know it's a lot of concrete it's a lot of pavement there's not a lot of canopy you know you go to go to Fort Wilderness that's a campground I don't mind that Campground you know it's it's got canopy it's got you know it's wooded it's it's more natural but it's just something else um and just because I I really didn't realize this was an issue but to piggy back on Cassie I was in that I was at that meeting and that's exactly what the intent was the intent was to be sight specific on that height that height variance and that was to be the only time it wasn't to be a blanket we're going to raise it actually a few of us got up and I think stated that you know we were worried about that happening so um once again thank you all for sitting there thank you for doing what you're doing and thanks for uh public works for keeping the water flowing thank you for your comment Mr Coleman Jane Harding okay what has me concerned is I moved out of here out here to get away from political agendas I come to all these meetings we all say one thing we go back and forth and back and forth and then we kind of come to some form of agreement and then I look at that 453 page draft and it's all different so it's like how does that happen you know it's like residents come in here we take the time to be here for hours on end and we think we're leaving with a set of one set of information just to have written in a 453 page draft a different set of information and that really bothers me that makes me feel like um I have no say but I'm still coming back and still coming back and I won't give up but it gets to a point where you just want to kind of give up because it gets pointless that was very disconcerting to me when I come to all these meetings hear one thing and then see a totally different thing in a draft where does that how does that happen are there secret meetings are there like is somebody else have a political agenda that can go behind the residents's backs and do something else and then put it in writing and then we got to come back and fight about it again how does that happen that's all I have to say thank you thank you for your comment Lisa Ry good evening Council um I'm in receipt of three requests for a BTR from the town as a as a commercial equestrian use I think it's very important that the town as an agricultural entity not parse the agricultural into different uses it's either a blanket agriculture is exempt or agriculture pays and when I look at the staff time that goes into this sort of thing I would stress that c Council should probably revisit with staff the prioritization of the code enforcement and focus more on commercial industrial institutional lawn maintenance and Retail nurseries perhaps that proliferate throughout the town um I'd also ask that the FEMA again be readdressed that there are clear agricultural allowances that FEMA provides that are less strenuous and strict than what the town has adopted and South Florida Water Management also provides for an Agricultural exemption from some of the flood plane requirements that town has adopted so I would ask that you revisit that and please please please ask fpnl since they seem to have abandoned the underground to please trim the trees because I've had a power outage now twice even before the storm came through thank you thank you for your comment Laura uh Laura cioo 13593 e Citrus um so just two things I I mean um I guess I'll I Paul reminded me it's just a matter of like these people that are trying to put an RV park in property that they don't even own yet and how much money do you think they already poured into having a wildlife specialist come out and check for goord ortis and whatever else how much money is this this is a lot of money and again it's coming out of the pockets of our our residents to give to a developer I don't know who whose property it is so I Have No Agenda in that way but I don't know who owns that property but if they're putting a lot of money in it that's just taking it out of the rest of our pockets for no reason um and then um oh no now I lost my train of thought um I felt like it was important at the time uh I think that's I'm done I guess I don't have any else get it you want to sit here first I W sit here let me think for a second sing a I don't know if that's a good idea it's that's what's because that's what's happening right now um it was something Lisa said it was something good um yeah I guess it did have to do with the btrs um thank you everybody like crowdsourcing um I uh I just wanted to make sure and I this is not to be accusatory to anybody who's on on Council right now or even in the past but I think a lot of times we end up with uh maybe offending our residents for things that we don't intentionally offend them for but we do um and that we really should make sure that when those things are drawn to our attention that maybe that we try to focus on enjoying and having a good life together um because that's what a town is it's where we're all in this together um if there's rules and regulations we should be following if we're exempt from them we should be exempt from them and when we are when when mistakes are are brought to our attention we should probably try to fix them thank you for your comment anybody else uh Missy would like to speak again if you'll allow her yes I just wanted to say um the the deepest condolences on the passing of Mory schoss about two weeks ago now so he should be remembered he was certainly a town character thank you that's it yes ma'am okay then I Ken's raising his hand okay not yet we have one more maybe two someone's making their way Ken Johnson I actually you uh one and I've only got one thing it has to do with btrs uh did each of you receive the information I gave to the desk about the btrs okay well the reason I bring that up is that the theer team has been registered with the state and that's a part of what you have to charge people for for but we've been registered as a nonprofit entity since whenever we started register 10 years ago 12 years ago so I do not think that we should be included with the other group that's being charged for being a included in the BTR I think we should be exempt from that that's all I've got thank you very much thank you for your comment okay can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda no no I can't get a motion to approve oh that's right we have a presentation I said that a minute ago and then I see Ron sitting there and I still blew him up okay the first thing we have is a presentation from Mr book and Pitman mayor council members Madam manager thank you uh for the opportunity and uh I'm joined by R Brown for my firm and Mr Pitman I think had someone from his firm coming he uh stayed back in tassy for a funeral this morning um let me just say that there are a lot of communities that wish they were in the boat you were in the last two years um we told you all um when uh we were in that selection process that we would work tirelessly on your behalf and on behalf of your taxpayers I think the facts speak for themselves um you got phase one of your storm water improvements approved a year ago got phase two approved this year and I think if you look at the opportunities from funding perspective and I'm going to talk about legislative issues in a few minutes substantive issues but money is really what you all hired us to do um if you look at what they did with uh the adoption of Senate Bill 1638 it not only provides funding for the wildli quarter which matters to you it not only provides opportunities for resiliency grants outside of the legislative Appropriations process which we are working with your staff to accomplish as well so just because you only got 750,000 only got uh you have an opportunity to pick up some other funding over the next number of months as well I think that what you should also be aware is that the Indian gaming compact money the over $700 million that comes in year in and year out so long as the tribe continues to pay what they have contractually obligated themselves to play to pay and now that the sports book litigation appears to be resolved the funding that will continue to come in for not only resiliency grants and the wildlife quarter uh there are a number of other places where money will be going and I will use the Water Management District as an examp example the south Florida Water Management District is the largest water control system in the world they picked up out of that money I want to say that'll be off on this 150 million more for projects that as an ongoing basis will also has have a positive impact on you as well I want to say that your staff your team the manager tremendously responsive in helping us get prepared to do what we do we don't pick up the phone and call and ask a question that we don't immediately get a response from the manager and your team almost instantly um I think ton not at least talk a little bit about some of the other substantive issues and and before I do that actually for a minute I spent a couple hours this afternoon before coming up here uh with the incoming Speaker of the House Danny Perez we've got 1 a little over $17 billion in reserves and if you look at the revenue estimating conference that concluded its work a week ago the revenue collections for June were actually up about 23 million more than the January projection showed them to be ought to make us feel good and I don't pay attention to what stock market did today and I don't care what stock market did yesterday and we can talk all about all these inflationary fears outside of inflationary fears there is an underbelly undercurrent issue with spending in Florida and I think you're going to see a pullback begin to occur in the budget process our budget is large our budget is significant the governor vetoed a billion dollars in projects and still had a budget in that if you will hundred billion doll T of range it it was large it was up it but his vetos stayed about the same level they did last year money goes back into reserves but they spent about five billion out of where they were in reserves you may or may not recall when we last spoke the reserves were in the 22 23 billion range they're now down in that 177 billion range I think the increased spending in prek to 12 the scholarship program that eats up a chunk of money I think when you look at Health Care spending when you look at correction spending when you look at Transportation spending all of those levels increased which if you will will begin to cap and become suppressed somewhat I believe over the next two years the fear is not will they have enough money next year the fear isn't will they have enough money two years from now the problem is in the third year of their five-year budget projections so I think while we will remain Vigilant and focused and determined to bring back more money to this community I think you just need to be aware that there is a downturn that they believe is coming um tax package was great um small business tax relief property insurance tax relief they didn't do anything to change Property and Casualty Insurance from a reform standpoint but they felt like they would give us a little something back by eliminating the premiums tax on our property insurance a toll relief $450 million in savings a back to school holiday continues through August 11th a disaster preparedness holiday begins again on August 24th and runs through September 6th Freedom month is over with ended on July 31st um they did some other things had chance to visit with the mayor uh last week about the encampment law everybody wants to talk about House Bill 1365 um I would simply say to you I see this as a County issue with participation by municipalities everybody understands I think today that on October 1 um if there are people sleeping in public places the community has an obligation to set up some form of place for those individuals to go and if they don't go to the place that has been determined to be a shelter for them or a place of if you will encampment nature they are then arrestable everybody has talked about House Bill 1365 is not criminalizing homelessness it does but not with specifics because you don't read something in there that says you arrest them if they are trespassing on public property based on the January 1 civil action opportunity for any taxpayer that determines a community isn't doing something to move someone off of public property sidewalks parks and the like and provide an alternative for them they can sue and get damages against the local communities uh I have spent as I explained to the mayor uh I have spent an extensive amount of time on my own because of the role I have played in miamidade County as chairman of the homeless trust over the last 30 years I spent an enormous amount of time up here in Palm Beach County with a group on the east side of town uh that is focused more on West Palm Beach and then a larger advisory Coalition that is broader in look from a countywide standpoint my message to the east side folks has been extremely clear you can't do it on your own and you can't do it peac meal there needs to be a broad plan it needs to be driven by the County government it needs to be fed into by the municipalities because municipalities cannot own this issue by themselves nor can they Implement by themselves nor can they apply for the large Federal NOA grants and the like on their own and the private sector needs to be at the table too everybody needs to row the boat together and there needs to be a plan there is no plan today and turning the Palm Beach County Jail into a homeless shelter is not a way to solve for the problem all that will do is become a revolving door people going in one day and out two days later on time served at a cost of $160 a day $190 a day that are borne by all the taxpayers in the community that is not a productive way to solve the problem I can tell tell you that at the same time this is facing the community a little known issue is the fact that you're what's known as a managing entity that oversees the funding in Palm Beach County for all behavioral health programs substance abuse alcohol abuse and general behavioral health issues was cut $8 million on I want and they were cut $8 million unilaterally by the Department of Children and Families which was part of a $221 million allocation of federal federal rescue dollars that were supposed to be in place for the Continuum Statewide through 2025 nobody at the Department of Children and Families to date has been able to tell any of those managing entities where the money is did the feds not send the money because feds said they were sending the money did you spend the money on something else are you artificially holding it back I don't really know but I do know this that if we reach October one and we reach January 1 and there is a shortage of places to place individuals for behavioral health related Services whether those are strictly mental health or those are co-occurring mental health substitutes alcohol use we're going to be in for a bigger problem and I repeat October 1 is one date but the critical date is January 1 when citizens immediately get the right to bring a lawsuit against the local government that has not set up a specified area as an encampment or a shelter for those individuals to go to um mayor council members mam manager both of our firms mine as well as the Pitman Law Group are are grateful for the opportunity to represent you um we hope that we have lived up to the expectations that you set for us we hope that we have accomplished the things that you've asked us to accomplish and we hope that we are being responsive to you in the information we provide to you after every committee week and especially during the legislative session thank you and happy to take any questions you might have and again I get all the credit ra does all the work um Mr Pitman does the work but but we but we collectively have really appreciated the opportunity so thank you thank you sir any questions yes please you have more than exceeded expectation performance responsiveness out of the box thinking hey did you know oh let's go get that one so you know hats off to you and your team and I think it's really cool that you acknowledge who really does all the work well I will tell you on the rural designation that was really important to your to your town which was really the manager's initiative to us um I I gotta tell you and and I never shy away from giving credit to my team I I would not have been able to do the rural designation without R's direct help on that and I think that that was a big deal to the community and I think long term it will yield great results to you very cool Robert wa I wasn't done sorry that's okay so October one where are we gonna put these people you know I mean if if okay thanks moving on no I'm I'm serious I mean it look I what would you suggest through you um let just let me just say that I went to there was a mayor's Symposium on this issue um because in West Palm Beach it's a much bigger issue than than it is here but what was clear from that mayor's Symposium is that it really is going to take all of us working together I me this is working cooperatively to try to create systems I mean there was talk about places that have areas where there's like old car parking lots so I mean you know like and put little tiny houses on those and to try to put Behavioral Services at the at the head of them so there was a lot of talk um and there is another mayor's meeting I believe it was October I told you I asked friend to reach out to the mayor of West pal to and to Saxon and because that's who started the whole thing and to see if maybe he could speak at that because he has such extensive experience in this particular issue um and has been so successful in Miami with that model I mean why not a model that's been successful the day after you and I spoke mayor I met again with West Palm the the Civic leader guy by name of Bob Garvey who's sort of leading that Community effort in West Palm but James Green and one of the assistant County administrators was in the meeting as well and they've assured us that and I related the conversation we had had they assured us there was a new date coming for another mayor's meeting but look you're you're not going to hear me encourage you to set up an encampment in your community just not going to encourage you to do that I believe it is incumbent upon the County government to help drive that effort on behalf of the entirety of the community now does that mean that at the end of the day someone won't determine that we got a problem in in our part of the world that's not going to go east and not going to go north and that we need to figure out a place for an encampment yes but but mayor Commissioners council members to the manager you don't have the financial resources available to you to do what the legislation calls for because what the legislation calls for isn't simply CH whiz we got an RV park over here we can put them over here and we can get them 12 tents and they can go live in them you've got to provide security you've got to provide sanitary facilities and you've got to provide the behavor Health Services as a wraparound and you're not in a position to do that now can I go to Downtown West Palm Beach and get City West Palm Beach with plenty of Reserve dollars to do that maybe but they don't really have a location identified either can I go over here to Riviera Beach and find a place can I go out South p and find a place it is a disaster I had that conversation with the incoming Speaker of House today I told him I felt like they had miscalculated calculated what the cost of this was going to be and and he had no idea about this $221 million deal that and by the way let let let me go backwards for a minute so your managing entity takes money and determines that the shore Counselor Center is in place to do X and they provide them with resources to treat 25 people a month and then I go over here and I contract with Herzog Center and they do another piece of it the problem is that those not for-profits that are providing those services are on such tight margins if you take away the money that's going into them they're going out of business and all of a sudden all of your Behavioral Health Network Goes to Hell in a hand basket and then people that really need it outside of if you will the homeless Community because let's be clear the managing entity doesn't feed money in simply for formally homeless individuals or currently homeless people it's a CommunityWide program provides Suicide Prevention dollars it provides cocaine addiction dollars that problem's everywhere it's not confined to the homeless population that's the problem and it's c colliding all at one time I must tell you a notion that we would go forth with that plan I I would say to you not until you're forced to not until you're facing a lawsuit um figure it out but the County's got to lead this effort the County's got the resources to lead the effort you are just not in that position to do it and I would go to every one of your league of cities meetings and I would be screaming and I would be yelling and I would be hollering and I would make certain that not only your current County Commissioner but every one of the County Commissioners that represent this County are aware of your concerns I wouldn't simply limit it to Sarah baxer I would focus on the mayor I would focus on Ma Bernard I would focus on whoever's going to take ma Bernard seat I would focus on Greg Weiss who's got a problem in Downtown West Palm I would focus on Maria Marina I would not leave any of them out and not because they're not willing to do the right thing but I'm not sure that the seriousness of this has yet fully set in so that people understand what's coming look I've got at the mayor's aware rest of you may or may not be I'm doing this for 33 years when we started in Miami Dade we had a little over 8,000 unhoused unsheltered individuals tonight I got 1,033 when we started 33 years ago Seattle San Francisco Los Angeles Denver Houston Dallas New Orleans Atlanta Chicago Detroit Boston Pittsburgh Philadelphia New York City Washington DC and Miami day County had one thing in common other than we were all Urban we all had between 8 11,000 unhoused unsheltered individuals in Los Angeles tonight have any of you been to Los Angeles lately any of you've been to La lately 79,000 individuals living on the streets living in cars and they're trying to build their way out of it at a cost of $842,000 a unit per formerly homeless people in Seattle they're facing 22,000 tonight unhoused unsheltered the bulk of the rest of those urban communities now have 30 some odd thousand individuals unhoused unsheltered and don't have a damn clue as to what their plan is we've got a problem and it's not confined to our communities here it's a nationwide problem but there's a way to solve it if people will begin to plan put resources in the right place provide leadership and funding that Mak sense and on tiny homes for just a minute I I I've brought an idea to the Palm Beach folks I mentioned it to you mayor I've sent them the materials for three and a half years I've been looking for a tiny home product that was real that was a real home not a damn shed some notion that you're going to put people in a shed without hot and cold running water without a kitchen is make believe fantasy and to spend 18 or 19 or $220,000 a unit when you can get a legitimate tiny home larger than the micro units they're building in New York City for 40 or 50 or 60,000 a unit and it's permanent and it's there and you control the inventory and the pricing of it while you move people through a Continuum of Care providing the services R trining so that they can become self-sustaining members of the community that's what it's about out that's what ending homelessness is about it is not about a revolving door in the jail and I repeat the worst thing that could happen here or any of the 66 other counties in the state is to turn our local jails into a shelter for homeless people that's just dumb one of the things that I mentioned to Ron that we could do right now kind of to be a little bit proactive and I talked to staff about doing it is to put some resources so that a large part of the problem is is the cost of once somebody becomes homeless as opposed to the cost of giving somebody a leg up before they become homeless and so I I task staff with creating some sort of resource page on our website to try to to offer resources right now to people before they actually become homeless you know rent help and the food pantries that we have in town and the behavioral health cam yeah other things that are available right now so that to keep people in their homes right to keep them from becoming homeless um and that I was hoping that that would be at least some place to start within our community because as Ron said we we don't really have the resource of a place to put people but maybe we can keep maybe we can keep the people in our community from becoming in that situation or be a resource for that I tell you my M dat the average chronic and remember you have three as we spoke you have three different forms of homelessness you have people that are situationally homeless you have people that are episodically homeless then you have the chronic chronic is somebody that's been three on the streets 365 or more consecutive days who had four instances of homelessness in the last two years that's a definition of a chronic homeless person by Hud's definition that's the person that most people identify with as homeless they don't see the situationally homeless and they don't often see the episodically homeless individuals the average chronic presents them elves to the emergency room at Jackson Memorial 13 times a year with a minimum of nine of those resulting in seven or more stay at no reimbursement to the Jackson Memorial Public Health Trust healthc care delivery system I assure you providing temporary rental assistance temporary utility assistance is is a hell of a lot cheaper than the overall cost to the taxpayers when we're not paying attention to those in need and you are in large part talking about those people that become situationally homeless because they're living payche to paycheck and there are four kids or there five kids and one of the and the only wage earner ends up out of work and ends up evicted or foreclosed upon um you got to catch those people and and it's got to be part of the overall continuum plan but if what we do is do a plan peace meal we fail that's why you need the County government to lead it with all of the Cities at the table and the business Community as well and I will tell you this that the business Community came to the table 33 years ago in mi day County miam day County does a lot of things wrong they don't do homeless wrong they committed themselves to be the public private partner in the Continuum for that they pay to help build manage and operate the two largest centers the trust is the if you will is is the lead agency in the county we implement we spend $103 million a year they had to commit to an endowment for the right to do those privileges they had to commit to raise 25 million in an endowment to assure the public side that in perpetuity they'd meet their obligation that endowment today is $68 million everybody's got to be at the table and the last time I checked the wealthiest zip code in the United States of America was on that island over there on the east side of town there are a lot of people that ought to care deeply and it ought not be all the people out west I'm sorry for going on as long as I did but you ask your question Robert I think you were next man I don't know if I want to comment so excited there I just want to run through Tallahassee real quick I've been fortunate to go up there for the last five years the last two years as mayor and vice mayor and meeting with uh Ron his staff and Mr pitman's staff and going a meeting with the legislators with their legislator staff and um the first year got there early Palm Beach County days in January so I felt like we were just in line with everything we were in the budget from the beginning boom boom boom this year I didn't go up till League of cities which was later in a session to get there and find out we aren't even in the budget our $750,000 and uh so we met with Ron and Ron put together an amendment to the budget and was able to get us in an amendment you which I thought there no way that's going to happen and it happened and we got the money but uh my point is you know I'm glad to see the mayor's meeting and establishing that relationship because uh this is such a a critical relationship in Tallahassee um and this goes back to a few years and I can remember when we had five lobbyists out here and I was mayor and they were talking about how great the individuals were and I think we did a consensus in only two council members supported hiring a lobbyist and they shifted their tune and they talked about why we as a town need one of them and every one of them said the same thing hey you know you may not hire me but hire one of us you know you need that presence in Tallahassee so just want to thank the team you know for what we did I hope that it was individual meetings it was me sharing my passion for the town and every one of us had the same passion for this town or we wouldn't be sitting up here but I I think it was critical that it was a one-on-one with an individual not being bombarded by a group of people because I've been up there when it was that situation and and I don't think it was personal to the the people that we met with so I hope that continues and like I say the only thing I would look at is when's a better time to be there you know we already and I never asked just like H busy Palm Beach County days okay I'll go up League of cities I was like no I already asked the so I already asked to look at we're maturing in our approach yeah a head start we are well I I think that you know sometimes you got to crawl before you walk walk before you run run before you become an Olympic star I can simply say I think that that as we continue to grow we will utilize committee weeks prior to the start of session to begin to sew those seeds that ultimately end up with some significant money in the budget thank you for your kind words I really appreciate it so thank you march yeah um homelessness is really a national problem as as you're aware and uh I think our state is impacted probably you know like most of the southern states where you have a warm climate more uh more of the year so um I'm wondering if um you know is it illegal to uh take these homeless people and do like they did with the uh illegal aliens and uh distribute them back to other uh States and put them up uh up that way well I'm not a big proponent of putting people on buses and trains and sending them off somewhere into nowhere I do support relocation and we will will eat the cost to relocate but we will only relocate Johnny or Mary when we have confirmed a receiver on the other end I sent somebody to Baltimore a week and a half ago I was out on the streets with our teams because was that one of the heat advisory days and so I went out with them because sometimes the boss has got to go out with the teams and show them you're willing to sweat a little bit as well um we sent every B but we had a receiver on the other end and we confirmed it and we don't confirm it once we confirm it multiple times um and so I do support that I think that at the end of the day you'll find the following fact just that and that is we count twice a year in Miami Dade we do what's known as a point and time count people refer to it as the pit and every Continuum in America that gets a penny from HUD is required to pick any day the last 10 days of January and count 23 years ago we started a summer count we count in August as well I believe that you got to be able to tell seasonal moves the environment believe it or not our numbers are up in the summer every single summer 23 consecutive years we compare January to January year-over year and we compare August year-over-year and it is shocking to me that our numbers are over always up we actually count again I believe it's August 22nd is our next count in Miami Dade now the large continuums across the country count in August as well they're just not required to by Hud but I don't know how you can do your job effectively we run the trust as a bu like a business operates everything is outcome and performance measured everything has a return on investment tied to it um I again if we start shipping they're going to ship to us we just try to avoid it I understand the frustration of it but we won't do it we won't do it there are other communities that probably do we won't Miami Beach is in the process of shipping people back across the mainland right now we're in a back and forth with them to try to get them to curtail that um they're the only community in Miami day that all of a sudden has started to do that but I think we're going to get a handle on that pretty quickly so okay and also I I'd like to say that um I've notice that the um PBSO has been uh very uh very good at reaching out to the mental health uh people and um if they are not in enrolled in Services uh their officers are are trained now to introduce these people to the benefits of uh going you know to our um uh 45th Street facility getting signed up for any any and every program that they they qualify for so hands off to PBSO for whatever they're doing with the mental they are they are doing it they're doing it in a coordinated fashion I think most of the sheriff's offices now around the state have implemented a plan I think that again what 1365 has done is it's gotten those County commissions if you will in particular in the larger communities and I'll use uh I'll use P I actually use pelis County as example Sheriff galtier who I just spent some time with at the Florida Association of counties meeting on a panel on this very subject they are getting more engaged in it and trying to drive people to those if you were Behavioral Health Service locations in the community but that $8 million cut that Palm Beach County took is going to have a very adverse effect if we don't find a way in the next couple of months to fill that hole those organizations are going to stop taking people and that's when the jail becomes the revolving door place for it and it's just not what you and I want I assure you of that thank you thank you yeah I'd like to thank you for taking the time to uh meet with me and for hearing my additional concerns I know you're very aware of our our main concerns which are roads and canals um but to listen to and consider um in what we're going to talk about up until talahasse my concerns about water quality and uh and and uh Environmental concerns like dumping in the town and see what kind of resources or Outlets might be available for us for that additionally um I would like to say um that while I think that a a uh I I disagree a little bit with what Robert said um I don't think necessarily just one rep I am willing to be the representative and I did let you know that and ask for dates in advance um but I don't necessarily think that just one people I will say that um I also have been to Tallahassee several times representing the town and um when we went with a a small group that was um very cohesive and very and and all very passionate um about what we felt that I felt that that was very effective and we got a lot accomplished in the couple of years that um that I went up there so um whatever you've been very successful whatever strategy you come up with complet mayor I don't disagree I don't disagree I think look I people hear when there's a mayor coming in from Community it's not that they don't hear what a council member and a council member and a council member and a council member speak because they do but I do think there's value in numbers and I think that as long as everybody is singing off the same page correct same language same message same Focus whether that's roads or that's Canal embankments or that is other related environmental issues I repeat there is a ton of money more money than I have ever seen going into the environment including water projects and Canal embankment improvements and the like I think communicating with the Water Management District is important I think it's critical and I think your staff is doing that and I'm remiss if I don't recognize Sam was here from Pitman Law Group his plan wa there was something called a Debbie hanging around Tass the last couple days so he was delayed getting in from his plane uh but I want to miss recognizing him um but I but I hear you and and I think that engagement with all is is helpful right well and and I you know appreciate that you're the expert and whatever strategy you come up with you've been very successful for us and I'm happy to say that you're on our consent agenda to approve to renew your contract so thank you so much for being here very appreciative and and to those in the audience and those that watch this thank you for the opportunity you might I just say one thing mayor yes ma'am I I don't think we can possibly thank ra enough not that we don't love you and Mr Pitman and both of the firms but R also works with us on the details of Grants and she helps us find money under rocks and wherever we can so I just want to say thank you all of especally Ron and Before I Let You Go that speaking of Grants um I was actually gonna save this for my closing comments but I think it might be appropriate to say it right now we just have put on in for a department just to make you aware um one of our CI citizens Darcy Murray brought to uh my attention and I brought it to Francine's attention and we put in for uh a Florida Department Of Agricultural Grant the community forestry capacity Grant which could help us to um with education tree planning Inventory management any of that stuff so we have put in for that Grant obviously we haven't heard whether we'll get an award yet but we are in for that right now and also we just had an opportunity from and I hope you say this name right Nidia Herrera um brought to my attention with which I again passed on to Francine the community Greening um which we also are looking into trying to uh put in for some grants with that too so um those are just some things that we're doing kind of inhouse but I want to make you guys aware that we're working on that okay thank you and I and I would say to you on the uh on the Department of Agriculture Grant I think that uh you'll find a friendly Voice who really truly understands rural communities like yours in commissioner Simpson so thank you sir thank you thank you mayor we have a public comment on this item thank you Cuchi ciuchi I just wanted to throw a thought out there and I don't know if it's in their scope um since they helped with our rural designation and he seems they're very um expertise in the area and and have a lot of legislative contacts maybe they can assist us with with identifying and redefining our town as it at it as it pertains to FEMA FDA flood planes because during the discussion of those we seem to be pushed into a certain category because of our land size and the engineers say oh well that's just the FEMA rules we can't do that it's never been done we can't get agricultural zonings that's very hard to do I don't know if it's in their purview but maybe they can use their context to help redefine us and make it a better fit for our community so we're not hurting our residents and we can actually have better it was just a thought thank you great idea mayor council members Madam manager the answer is I don't know where you are in that process but as you probably know that is largely driven by the Florida Division of Emergency Management fdm we can help we have extraordinary access there we know the process you know the system I don't know specifically what we need to do to change rules and if they are Federal FEMA rules versus something local but we could work with fdm to see what can be done I just am not familiar enough with the specifics of this but we can I'll call R tomorrow and give her the person from FM that we've been working with and then we can go ahead and start moving through we know what we know the process there so well we'll give them a day or two to get through Debbie but we'll be right on after that okay thank you again sir okay uh now I need a motion to approve the consent agenda motion to approve I want to pull items four and nine four and nine anybody else NOP okay want to do it motion to approve consent agenda with the removal of items four and nine for discussion second all in favor I I oppos passing for to zero thank you thank you all right so let's talk about item four that you wanted to pull all right item four Robert sorry is um the purchase of an es did you I'm so I'm so sorry did you want to speak or just I'll beefus okay all right I'm sorry since you came all the way here hurricane I want to give you a minute thank you that mayor just really quick my name is Sam P here I'm the associate director of government Affairs um I want to apologize for my tardiness as well as the absence of attorney Pitman unfortunately had a family funeral but again it's a privilege to represent y'all in Tallahassee and just thank you for the opportunity thank you sir okay thank you all right so on this item four item four item four is approach of a San sy6 6C excavator and when I saw that name I did some research I'm like what is a sany and uh it's piece of equipment from overseas um new to this small small escavator Market you know they have a lot of large equipment and um I just think ordering a piece of equipment from overseas through a Minnesota state contract from a dealer that's 12 something miles away from us to save30 $40,000 in the long term as a town um I would like to see us consider the local Al alternative you know a local price agreement a a local dealership uh you know a piece of equipment that we know is uh parts are R accessible Services almost immediate I just have long-term concerns with this piece of equipment um I talked to a couple other contractors about it and uh just I talked to two and and they had heard of the name but neither one had purchased it and I did talk to Craig about it and you know he said he did uh there was one over there when they knocked down the uh the silos that has nothing to do with my opinion here this that it knocked down The Silo but uh anyhow I I just from from uh I want say by America because even probably most of your American vehicles and Equipment have something in them you know but but I just think sourcing this to save that money and we're talking 60 uh the numbers I think and this was just through a conversation with Craig asking hey did you get other prices was my first thing and John Deere had a similar machine same attachments for $100,000 and this machine is 60 something but uh I I just think that we ought to buy local when we can and that that's it's going to cost more money I I'm usually probably one of the most conservative ones up here when it comes to squeezing the nickels but uh that's just my opinion on this um I just don't think this is a purchase that should be all about saving a few dollars um I think longterm um maintenance and availability of Maintenance and repairs and and if the machine goes down having a local supplier to give us another machine to use while that's down things like that I don't see that happening with a dealer that's 120 miles away it just doesn't seem realistic and I know you don't buy something to plan for failure but uh eventually it does happen and um that's just my opinion on it um I I appreciate the heck out of Greg and everything he did you know putting this together but uh that was my initial reaction when I read like okay where's the other prices what's going on and talk to him and he did get other prices and and that is the dollar difference so that's that's just my opinion I wanted to share of of why I don't support buying this particular piece of equipment March yeah um can we hear from Craig uh telling us why did uh you bring this item forward as opposed to the other things that you explored the bottom dollar so we've gone through in the past of the budget and everything we were going at the John Deere we went to the caterpillar we went to bobcat for the same machine $10 $120,000 for the same size machine um we went to John Deere cat they're twoyear year warrant or warranty on it this machine has a fivey year 50,000 hour warranty on it 5,000 hour or 5,000 I'm sorry 5year 5,000 hour warranty on it where the John Deere and they have is a 2year 2,000 hour warranty that was a big difference for us that's a fiveyear coverage on this machine compared to two-year they may be right next door can I just interrupt you to ask a question can you can you address Mr Sha's concern that we would not be able to get service like where would we have obviously for John Deere service we go right here to Everglades where where do we go for service on this machine we would call them no okay no they're right on the west coast of Florida the manufacturer I mean the distributor for them the dealer I've been on the phone with them as soon as I call them they instantly pick up the guy's on the he was in Washington a couple weeks ago he picked the phone up as he was sitting in the airport to talk to me did they come to us or would we have to they would come to us they would send someone to us to come do the the service on it and they would transport if needed uh repairs were too extensive for Onsite yes they would do I mean they would bring the material to us to do the work on the on the machine as I demo like M sure said I demoed a machine that was across the street from us it was no different than any other machine I've sat in same power same everything as any other machine I'm just looking at a $50,000 difference okay and can you address the laner machine that supposedly Everglades would give us if the I've never seen Everglades we have our syy right now they're coming to do service on it they don't have a machine to give us for a loner that they're coming to do service on so that's not even really they wouldn't bring you a machine if it's down right now Laur did you have anything what does this thing do what does this thing need to do what thing is it going to replace that doesn't do that's why I put all the links the YouTube links everything for all of it see I remember last time you all liked the YouTube links and everything and the website links so I did put all those in there for you so we currently do rent a little bit smaller machine than this one right now as we rent this machine we're having a problem of reaching to the bottom of the canals to do our Canal restoration of placing the rocks at the bottom of the canal this machine has almost a two foot further reach on it then as we went to the say another brand those other brands are at the same length as what we have now that we're renting so this would replace what we're renting so in the overall cost out of the town that we've sold off the auction we have $444,000 that we would be rolling over into this machine and then as out of budget we only be 22,000 that would go onto this machine now if we went to a name brand well can't say name brand but as to another brand that's local we're talking another 60 that would be total timeing out thank you so on our Canal restoration we budget $350,000 I think and S part of that is salaries part of that is equipment and part of it is materials and about I think 200,000 plus we had for materials this year and we've probably only spent maybe 50 on a on a high so there's money there in that program so I don't think money should be the driving factor I think it's a instead of 20 something thousand difference I think we'd have to do 56,000 difference so yeah because the the initial cost of just say one that's at John Deere is $106,000 okay for the same machine so my comment is while while I don't think money should be the driving factor I do think that the research and recommendation of our staff should be the driving factor and if they feel that this is um an adequate machine for the job and the one that they've chosen then then I feel like we should support them in that um and the warranty is better and the warranty is better so uh that's new news we talked it was 550 found out something different between earlier I thought the warranty on everything was 550 yeah I called over John Deere today to double check on their machine and told me it was 2E 2000 okay so can I have a motion to approve this resolution motion that we approve um resolution uh 20 24- 53 and a second second all in favor I I I okay passes three to one and the other one that you pulled Robert was number nine yeah and I support the motion just we talked about what would the percent be and did you find anything out on a ball park we're talking the credit card yes I I know exactly what you're talking about um and it turns out the manager was right um it depends on the card that the purchaser is using or the the payor is using um and it'll vary um the the average rate appears to be um in the 3.5 um percent range um our suggestion uh and um our finance director is taking a look at it and I'm seeing if he uh he has gotten um the information on what the exact average is but we think it's about 3.5% and our recommendation is um that you pass the ordinance we would implement it um and the fee would be at 4% and that would cover us and I looked at my Coastal dumpster bill which they just implemented this I believe this month and it's a two and a half% so that was my my question um we shouldn't be trying to make money on this we can't by law I'm sorry for interrupting we are not allowed to by law so why would you say a 4% when the average is three and a half I'm just if it's if it varies how is the person that's paying with a credit card how are they going to know well that I think that's I think that's a difficulty on an individual basis and so we're not making money on it on an overall basis um because you have to remember that in addition to the actual cost it itself um you have the cost of accounting for it and the those kind of things I mean it would be easier for us um if everybody paid um cash but that doesn't happen anymore no everybody pays credit they want to document it right you know it's a paper tra they want their flight miles come on um I mean and the reason I bring up is because this resolution is just generic it says okay it allows us to recover the effective if we agree tonight effective tomorrow they can start doing this and my question is what are they going to start doing when that person comes in tomorrow morning and pays that $3,000 permit fee what are they going to get hit with and you know if you say it depends on what credit card they are now we're spending staff time trying to figure well that we had this discussion just earlier tonight just before we started and I made the recommendation of what I do at my business because of course I have to do all the accounting too and that comes into time and everything and to try to figure out the difference between what they're doing on an AMX or what they're doing on the Master Card we just charge a flat fee I mean we just and everybody pays it so some people may be paying a little more we just charge a flat fee and and um have that arrangement with our credit card company so that we're getting our cost and then they're getting the flat fee more so I suggested that as one thing I think they wanted to just get this approved and then hammer out the details just our general consensus that we all agree that yeah it's appropriate to charge a credit card fee and so that we get our actual money and we're not the town is not burdened with the cost of using a credit card I support the resolution it's just do we decide on a number tonight so it's part of it so when that person comes in tomorrow to pay their fees this is a percentage or if we agree to the concept tonight then I don't think they should be implementing it until we agree to a schedule our our recommendation would be uh the 4% to make sure that we are covering our costs um and that's based on the information that we have at at this point in time my suggestion would be that we implement this we go forward with the the 4% as we refine uh the numbers and we talk to our um banking agreement and we see if there is some way that we can save uh the customer and the town money um we do so but I think it makes sense to to implement it um and you know that's that's the recommendation of our finance director um and uh your staff on that and if you use a debit card there's no percentage charge so you would collect nothing correct debit card you can't take any more than what you already have in the account it's not like a credit card all right well resolution um the what this is what this is doing it is um impacting the charges that we incur um and I would defer I I honestly don't know the the answer as to whether or not a debit card um when we accept a debit card whether there is a charge associated with that to us there is and it's stated in the first sentence of the whereas credit card charge card yeah debit card I know I know resolution allows for it so just m chair do you mind asking what percent you charge or you don't have to 4% is what charge at my business yeah and and I got a thing from Co at two and a half percent yeah so and it's it's just on my invoices if you choose to pay by credit card and if you want to go get whatever but we charge 4% because it for a small business like mine and for a town with a small budget like ours it's a big hit to lose 4% of the of charge and I do I do know in the from the discussions we've had with um our banking folks um that if if we were to um increase the amount of credit card receipts that that we receive um they can get us a a better rate and some more deals and things like that that was one of the things that we discussed with them a couple months ago was the idea of seeing if the sheriff um you know and those kind of things can be um done on a credit card basis that's when we're making the the payment but similarly um they're going to offer opportunities to larger users so it may be that Coastal because of the the size and volume of their business may be able to to get a better better rate we'll continue to explore that um at this point in time the best information I have that is um in that 3.5% range um so my suggestion is 4% to make sure uh that we are covering our costs so let me ask you uh do you charge for uh debit and electronic transfer payment electronic transfers no okay all right no unless it's a wire but like zel I mean I'm zel there is no fees incurred by anybody so we don't for zel but if wires uh there's a different fee for domestic wires and international wires okay but we're going to charge that here in the town for Zing is zel listed on there as well transfers so here's here here's what I'm hearing I'm hearing this needs a little bit of work what I'm hearing is that we'd like some more specifics we'd like you to look into some things like whether zel is included or or venmo if there are fees involved with that are included in this or not um whether debit cards are included in this and I don't I don't believe we are set up to receive benm Mo or zel okay well but we could be because everybody does business that way now so it could be something we decide to do next week so if we're going to do an ordinance what I'm hearing is that like if we're going to address how we're going to do our Banking and how we're going to receive monies from people let's address yeah let's the possibilities and let's put and let's put the number in in this uh the percentage that we're going to charge in this and let's bring it back is that what is that the T table it and and bring back more specific is that sound back in well the only thing I wanted to add is you know again in transparency you know to people let this be complete so yes table it you know it needs to be complete more specific yeah I'd just like to make one comment sure go ahead um on item number two I'd like to thank everybody who put in the time to do the quarterly reports you're getting so good at at it but uh it it's really uh fun to read almost to read how we're spending all our money all right 500 pages I mean all right let's move on to number 18 a discussion on Mo's gr mayor oh I'm counc council member sh made a motion to table the item I need a second second Kowski all in favor all right opposed passes four to zero the consent agenda okay we're on to item number 18 which is a discussion on Mo's growth um I thought we were 15 15 some regular I'm sorry I skipped 15 silly me okay all right so sorry about that I was just moving on theage just an i really hopeful laa okay Sor sorry okay let's move on to item 15 this is uh valry could you read the title of this one for us yes mayor approval of ordinance number 20248 on first reading in ordinance of the Town Council of the town of lahache grow Florida amending chapter 2 Administration article 3 officers and employees division 2 code of ethics section 2- 87 standards of conduct paragraph 10 of the code of ordinances and part five development review procedures and requirements article 120 quasi judicial hearings section 120- 020 expar Communications of the unified Land Development code of the town of lahache groves to provide for procedures regarding holding and disclosure of experte communications and removing any presumption of prejudice providing for conflict severability codification and an effective date hey anybody have anything on this one any just the understanding of this gives us I don't want to say freedom but you know you don't feel like you're under the microscope to say yes I met with somebody who met with somebody who had a glass of wine with somebody you know it it's it's it allows us to say yes we met and yes I can be impartial it's that simple I believe so amen and I think it also it's my understanding that what it allows for is we don't have to have meetings an hour long before other meetings to have this basically what was it X partake medication that happened tonight right we can have those meetings and perhaps give to people the uh honesty of this thing's never going to fly in this town or you might try this prior to taking up so much staff time and and our time in open meetings yeah um you know I I had a staff member say to me the other day well you know everything that you talk about with your residents is exp parte I'm like H he said well you know there's stuff on the agenda and things that you're going to vote on I'm like well how in the hell am I supposed to be a representative of the community if I can't answer a resident question I mean that's ridiculous yeah or tried to so you know this this is very freeing anybody else no okay I have a motion to pass oh I'm sorry do we have public comment on this item I have not received any now okay so then can motion to approve ordinance 20248 second all in favor I pass Z hoay okay now we're on number 16 oh I have the could I have the reading please Val consideration of ordinance number 20247 on first reading an ordinance of the Town Council of the town of lahache gr Florida repealing section 20-50 recreational vehicles of article 20 residential zoning districts and establishing article 92 recreational vehicles within part three supplemental regulations within the unified Land Development code providing for conflict severability codification and an effective date anybody got anything to say on this one we can sure we can do public comment I've been doing public comment for the last two weeks on this if I may Madam mayor U just as a point of clarification I believe in your agenda packet there may have been two versions of the ordinance so the first um of the two that's in your packet I believe it starts on page 265 is the correct version the latter version6 is the correct one 265 I believe it's the first one was at 256 the first one's at 2566 okay I had my numbers flipped around okay okay so that is the correct one the first of the two in your packet is the correct one if there was confusion okay 256 6 256 is the correct one the first of the two there's minor changes that it was kind of back and forth at the end of speaking some wording but we ready for our public comment Virginia sish North Road I I realize or rules policies ordinances everything's change as we evolve originally these were meant to be kept separate the private RV ownership and the rental uh r policy what I would like to ask that in reviewing these policies that the larger properties are not reduced to having to Bear the same requirements as the smaller Parcels a quarter acre one acre two acres there's a reason we bought larger Pro uh properties and it was not to be confined to the same requirements of a small parcel as an example a 5 acre parcel that I'm on my private RV I'd like to make sure that I can have two RVs I might need one for my business I might might need one for recreation someone else might have a uh there are his and her RVs these days the wife has one the husband has one they have different interests they go off in their own directions um and also family members like to use their vehicles together so what all I'm asking is that the larger properties in private ownership not be limited by what the smaller properties would have to adhere to thank you any others I agree with her but I'm reading this for Lena she's at 13967 East Citrus Drive she said please have the blow letter read which I'm doing in 20178 there was an RV prog pilot program presented by the town then run by the Underwoods I came into the office to pay my RV permit fee was told by Mr Underwood I did not need a permit since my property and Mr Keith Harris's property was zoned allowing RVs I do not know why or how I never questioned this for the past 10 years I have had three to four RVs on my 6 acre plus property with no issues from the town to now with the new proposal only being allowed to seems unfair I have contracts signed last year for this upcoming season the larger properties five plus acres should be allowed more than two RVs then there's the amount of time the RVs are allowed at the last meeting it was said 6 months minus one day now suddenly in The Proposal it is five months why going from $50 a permit fee to $500 permit fee per RV seems excessive there is no RV application attached to this proposal why there were concerns with the application last year has this been changed why would I ask what race my renters are why does the town need to know any private information what is next do I have to report to the town if I have guests coming for an Extended Stay should the RV registration in license plate not be enough it is not the town's responsibility to vet the renters I will take full responsibility for whomever I rent out to thank you Lena onrion and I agree with that I mean when I came here I had two to four RVs and nothing was ever said nobody I mean I even looked it up and so on and so forth and then came to all the meetings and as they changed I went with the changes but I mean I just wish that we could make up our minds because it's being in limbo is making it very hard especially when you have a business and exactly like Lena said she has a contract from last year we don't November 1 comes up and this starts we're not waiting till November 1st to have our contracts they're like six months in advance so I think that if they put something in regulation they put it in place and they're fair to everybody and their needs and then give them the year to do it because a lot of things are already set in place you know you can't I mean I will the first year that this happened I had to literally tell people I'm sorry you can't come because they just changed the rules on me I lost $21,000 and I know everybody thinks horse people have a lot of money I'm paycheck to paycheck look I work full-time all day long and I have a horse farm it's my daughter's career we don't make millions of dollars and we do do contracts six months before the season so when all this comes in the middle of it and we already have contracts what do we do so put something in place and then give us a year to actually do it thank you thank you Robert yes we have one more comment oh I'm sorry Marian miles I didn't realize there is that the last one yes thank you good evening Council Maryann miles um at the last meeting a question was brought up uh by Phyllis and um I'd like to know the answer to that and that is how many permits were issued with the pilot program do you know Francine now last year was a handful the last time was a handful and the previous time I have not been able to find the list okay so 2017 I have not been able to find a list okay and one of them being uh council member Phyllis manilia right yes that is correct okay that gives her a special exception as a council person plus she um is grandfathered in with the permit right well I'm not sure about that I believe that the um the special exceptions were something that our attorney wanted to talk about okay um the reason I'm asking is because that's a special benefit that if there's just just a handful of people and um that may be an Ethics issue but I'll go down that road later um on page 258 we're you know we started this program to suit the residents in our community and to have two RVs for five acres or more I think is disrespecting the um the uh people that took the time that as Jane said have these contracts year after year and uh for a person to be I for a person to be grandfathered in with a permit that they have a special benefit now and are residents who are trying to get the RVs maybe three for five acres it was discussed four for five acres they're not allowed to do um I don't think that's right so I wondered why uh in those discussions there was not more push back and then when Phyllis said what she said about her permit then I knew why because she gets the benefit and they don't and that's not right we're here for the residents uh we do not have one siiz fits all I was not able to come to the 5:00 I wish I had um the RV park that is presented has nothing to do with the residents trying to do their businesses make a livelihood keep their properties clean and neat and tidy the way we would like them so if you're going to approve this tonight I would not I would rethink it I think the two RVs is not acceptable and there's a couple other things in here that I agree with Jane thank you thank you for your comment Robert Austin thank you Mr Austin Robert Austin 746 hide Park uh she just touched on the main problem of this RV program people are buying here expecting to put trailer parks in now she follows the rules and I wouldn't mind maybe an extension for her to get her contracts done but the pro what you put in there place right now is pretty good at least it limits him to the equestrian season we're getting rid of their year round rentals because it has gotten out of control we literally have hundreds of people living in RVs in this town are they going to get voting rights do we have to change our voting back to uh Property Owners so that these people don't vote change this whole town character of this town we are not a RV resident a KOA I bought here for the rural lifestyle not to be have people living in campers all over the town around me okay the few horse people who need it for the equester season I have no problem with that but it needs to be rained in you can go down collecting Canal there's 30 to 40 people living in campers 30 to 40 campers occupied year round so we have to get something under control and this program you put forth is a good start if they need to make an exception for her to fulfill her contracts this year that's different but we need to start to put this you know under some control cuz it's really really bad thank you Mr Austin uh Miss Jane Harding would like to speak again when I was reading that 453 page thing um it said five months when you did the math November to March now season six months and it was always said 179 days so that's what we all discussed and there never seemed to be any kind like argument with that and now all of a sudden this is what I meant by we saying one thing in here and you know we're listening to that side my side Etc but what happened to the 179 days I mean season six months not five months and actually seven to eight months now but 179 is the rule without making it a residence if I believe correctly and now all of a sudden it's five months what happened thank you Council comments Robert yeah one one thing I'd like us to consider is the $500 fee for the site approval and we kind of talk about that that's the first thing you got to have happen is your site has to be approved for an RV but I would like to see that to be a fiveyear approval $500 for a fiveyear site approval and I I think that's important because things can change every year and and these are people that are trying to plan a business and um I I I think you know 500 for each site you know each RV I don't think is fair but 500 to you have to submit your site plan you have to show a drawing and it's not on a napkin it has to be paper but it's handdrawn nothing fancy to scale and then no Engineers involved yeah yeah no flood plane engineering no but uh and then they come out and inspect the site okay this is my water my backflow preventer this is my electricity look make sure it's safe and temporary that's a key this has to be something that you can connect and disconnect that's important and then you get the blessing yes you have two sites approved this is a location you can't change the location you can't modify them without requesting another $500 site approval um but but I think my opinion I think that is important to have that extended period of time for the site and now the RVs um I researched the ordinance when first came out 2017 it was one RV for one and a half to five acres five acres or more was four RVs then in 2018 it changed to one to two acres maybe that was a 2020 yeah 18 was the same is 17 2020 it changed one to two acres you get one two to 10 you get two 10 or greater you get four and then we discussed at the workshop 0 to what what was we discussed at the workshop 0 to five 051 five gr or two everybody get one yeah five or grade or two so I mean that was kind of that was what I remember um this is a little bit different than what I expected but but I appreciate most of it I think I think it's a good uh summary of something that that we can start with it's not going to be perfect but I feel we need to move forward and give these people um confidence that uh they can run a business essentially the equestrian business was the need that that derived this and the farming Community the the nursery Community they have some ability with State Statute to do um some security and caraker and stuff so that's always been there but this I think evolved from the equestrian community and and the town recognizing a need and and then being very very generous in my opinion Town Council to even allow this opportunity for people because not many towns if any would even entertain this much less you know actually put something in place and say yes we support this type of community this type of use so I I basically you know with the exception of the fiveyear um oh the timeline too on November 1st to May or April 1 that is a five month I think that should be extended um to 100 if you're going to do a fixed timeline we went 179 days thinking somebody may have a different type of business that they use it for a different need migrant workers in the summer period yeah so then it was like how do you police it and and I know this is a compromise of you know understandable keep it simple you have the ability some checks and balance um have something that people get to buy in that they actually come sign up for you know I think that's critical I think having that fiveyear window will entice a lot of people to sign up for it because they want to get their permit because they know no matter what happens on the dis for five years hopefully they're they're covered and uh so I think that that's critical to the program is is to get the the people to to sign up and to make it as as simple as possible as cost effective then you have the price per RV you get your side approved then the RV comes and you come to town you get a separate permit for for that RV basic on that tag number and the RV description my opinion that application doesn't even need to have anything about anybody that's living in the RV because this is a RV program not a people program this is you know allowing people to have this RV on your property for an extended period of time for your use and and whatever the fee is for that you know I don't think that should be you know in the $500 range once again you know $100 to cover staff time if they're and I think they should go out and see it plugged in it's one thing to have your side approval get the RV park it plug it in call it in they come they visually look at it and they're they're not guaranteeing anything that you know something might not be right but from a general perspective yeah it's a temporary plug yeah there's a back fow preventor you know the basic health and safety that that you can see on the out side as far as the numbers go I'm flexible on that but but I think I'm finding in general with it thank you Madame mayor I'm sorry just before council member sh concludes his um remarks I did want to make two quick comments in case it changes um his input one of course we can um between first and second reading address any of the comments from the council today whether it's changes to the dates um that the our are allowed for the seasonal or or what have you the second piece is and I'm going to defer to our town attorney to address the concern with the grandfathering it was something that was mentioned um and requested to be included as kind of a benefit to those who did come in uh we have learned that there was some different direction given to different residents as one of the residents noted that perhaps they wouldn't so we as a staff we have concerned about um some some issues relating to the grandfathering policy and our town attorney can explain um maybe the direction that staff would be more comfortable moving as it relates to that okay Mar yeah um I I have concern about um the a uh Community being um expected to pay the $500 um these act Community uh Representatives have been here long before in corporation and uh they have had their caretakers on their property you know uh for many many years so to me I think that the um the uh uh people with a classification should be allowed to have one at least one caretaker quarters without any charge any fees anything they've been existing since before in corporation so so why all of a sudden should we now impose upon these people extra charges to run their business Laura do you have your light on I did I I did um bless us and save us this is as close as we've ever come so thank you you know to everyone for all your input and you know the work that we've done I 100% agree with Robert's comments um $500 is a fiveyear coverage um I that that makes sense and like you said it would be an enticement absolutely on board with changing it to the 179 days and I um Tanya maybe if you want to talk about what you want to talk about and then maybe might some things I want to say um I meant to ask about that I am not comfortable being told in this verbage uh to refer to a resolution that I've never seen before so I don't know if that's what you're talking about but anyway I'm done thank you um okay this is is a real double-edged sword and yes we are as close as we've ever gotten um so first of all I would say that just because somebody has been having somebody live in a trailer and dumping the be matter on the ground since before in corporation doesn't mean we should continue to let them do that so and so I think that and I think that it's a health and safety issue so I think even if it's for a Bonafide egg property or purposes there should be something even if it's a $100 inspection fee to make sure that and it's five years so if you're Bonafide egg I mean I agree with the 500 for five years for the ones you're renting out um but I think in Bonafide a there there has to be at least an inspection every five years to make sure that the health and safety issues are being covered and to cover the cost of staff to come out and do that so I would be very opposed to letting people have them without any inspection because we know for a fact that there are issues going on in town right now um and and and this is a way to try to get that some of that under control um the second thing is there's been I I mean I I presume that everybody else is getting the same emails that I'm getting um one way or the other um and and there's a lot of them uh so you know and it really seems to be about a 50/50 split um there seems to be a desire for people with 10 acres or more to have more to have three or more um and so I don't know if that's something that everybody can agree to um and uh well and the and the people who spoke to me with more than 10 acres had made the point that they kind of need a caretaker on the front and a caretaker on the back I mean sometimes they're doing two different disci Industries or disciplines basically on their property they may have gardening you know growing tomatoes in the back and then they may have you know boarding horses in the front and it requires two different types of caretakers for those different activities um or workers for those activities so um I think that we need to put some stipulations in for the agricultural for the caretaker um so I think it needs to be we we were trying so hard to keep it simple and to get something in place but I think there needs to be some more um looking at at uh the agricultural I think there also needs to be as was pointed out that whatever we put into place right now um can't apply this year because people have already rented out and has to apply next year except that maybe we can put some kind of a upper end limit of what is allowed even this year because certainly people having 10 RVs on a 2.5 acre property along collecting Canal is just not okay um and so we need to put some kind of a moratorium I think that you know although you know as was pointed out Phil assist one of the class that participated in the program there are certainly other people that participated in the program that would receive the same special privilege so um we need to look at um who else is included in that um when we when we talk about and that's certainly something you need to to address is how can we protect the people people that have been doing the right thing all along and and keep and keep them keep them whole um you know basically so there's there's some things we need to go back to the table on here um so anyhow um go ahead address that for us sure so mayor if I may um the concern was with tying the grandfathering um going to just use that term because it's easier to that 2017 resolution is that anyone that participated in that early pilot program their permits would have long since expired and so they're really from a legal standpoint in no different on no different footing than anybody else right now and so I would have a concern for the town and this is something I've discussed with Mr tvia that if we were to leave that that link anguage in or even a variation on it um that it might subject the ordinance to Legal challenge no boy so my the more traditional way that that we kind of reward people for doing the right thing so which I think is what I'm hearing is the desire from the council would be to honor anyone that has a permit that's active at the time that the ordinance takes effect so so you know that's so does that mean people who have 10 on their property right now can run out and get 10 permits and and then we have to honor that because yeah I think they're going to be limited by until this becomes active I think they're going to be limited by what was in your code previously which I think but but in addition but in addition to that if you have more than four you are now no longer governed by the town's rules you're you're governed by the state rules because once you have five or more you have to be monitored by the health department and you're considered an RV park and you have to have a a certain level of signage a certain amount of appropriate facilities and so on and so forth um so four has always been the limit and when we do try to address the code issues we have always looked at four or more no more than four okay because that's a state issue yeah so I think I think what what I would say is that someone that has 10 on their property right now without any more information they're it's illegal yeah it's illegal yeah anything more than four is illegal right now so then the people that want to have a whole bunch of them will run out and get four get permits for four uh between now and when we get this ordinance in place and how does that address the concerns of the people that are concerned about and rightly so the increased traffic The increased volume of people in the town and all of that I mean we're not you know if we if we open it up the way you're saying then there's going to be a certain class and I'm certainly not suggesting everybody's going to do this because they're not but there's going to be a certain class that's going to run out and grab four permits right now until we get this in place and that doesn't so then we're doing a disservice to but but I don't think anybody and please excuse me for participating so freely but I don't believe that we wish to be able to hand out four permits at $500 to everybody who comes in for you know a permit for four um I know we don't care about names and so on and so forth but we might want to see the lease agreement you know or somehow see that you have something in place for this season you know because I that's what I hear being said that we're going to try to accommodate people for this season as they get ready for the new rules to take place next year that sounds like a great idea right and so if you have your rental agreements in place just show them to us you know or if you just want to sign a form like for instance on our right to farm permitting we just have people sign a farm that they're b a form that they're Bonafide EG and it's an affidavit I mean would you accept that or do you want us to look at leases we can be accommodating but not handing out something that's not already there and and I think to be clear the the permit and Madame May I'm sorry if I may jump in of course um to be clear the way I'm reading the code the way it exists right now those permits will expire so I'm not saying that my recommendation would not be that you grandfather these people forever but that when those permits that are in place expire they expire and then they have to meet the code the way it's written when it's active that's a traditional application of legal of a legal nonconformity um that's not something the council has to do if you don't want to do it I'm just telling you that that's traditionally how um grandfathering is done okay so we need to go back to the drawing board again we need to take out the grandfathering Clause forget it we can't do that we need to re we need to reconsider the fees and fees for different classes let's say of what's the RVs are being used for and we need to consider whether we want to raise the amount for 10 acres or more um to more than RVs or whether we want to raise any of these numbers or whether we want to leave them the same Laura you were first and then Roger I wholeheartedly Embrace this table on page 261 with an addition of 10 acres or more you can have a total of four it's clean it's simple it's it it kind of checks a box without making it overly complicated cu the example you gave is fabulous you know one end of the parcel does this one end of the parcel does that um that makes perfect sense so one two and four sure or one three and four you want to change the two to three for five acres or more I if you're asking for opinions I know it's you got the floor had to get a consensus I'm just I can support the four for ten or grade so one two and four is what your your I can jump up and down and scream to the sky yes for that one two and four yes with the caveat of people who already have contracts in place are going to you know live on the honor System for this year and come in and say look my clients signed this on April 12th before they left you know let's just get through this and the next year we'll play by this new table okay but I don't think Robert I don't think we need to wait till next year I think we can approve first reading based on these few changes agreed yes and the difference being instead of the grandfather the difference being if you have contracts right you can you know if you have five acres and you have a contract for three or four or whatever for this year yeah I mean you know it it it really only applies the only thing we're changing remember last year the ordinance said um one to two you get one two to 10 you get two greater than 10 you get four so the only difference and that was the rules but I understand the people that said well you know it was a pilot it was a volunteer you know like the letter from somebody that that has contracts for six he always is so I I think that is the exception this year is if you have contracts for more up to a four because you've never been allowed to have more than four right so you know if you have contracts for more than the allowed two on five acres it's no go then then you can submit those contracts but I think you still need to go through the site approval process yep I mean I really think it's only changing the one sentence to you know allow a a one-year reprieve to those having contracts add four for 10 acres or more let's let's consider another situation I'm just playing devil's advocate here guys I'm just trying to cover all the situation so you have somebody on a two and a half acre parcel and we have a lot of farms in town that are on two and a half acre Parcels that are Bonafide agricultural Farms okay and they have their own RV stored in their driveway so that's their one should they or should they not be allowed to have a second one as a Grooms as a yes okay but but under this we're saying no okay so so we have to consider I'm just throwing that out there because I know that's that applies to a lot of people okay so should so so should anybody from zero to zero to five or whatever 0.1 to five that has a Bonafide a be allowed a second one as long as they their own first personal oneor one basic and not renting it out for bodies I I think Bonafide a if you've got an acre you don't have Bonafide a you've got a single family residence I understand but I'm talking about two okay so one to one to five is allowed their one that everybody else is allow but if they're Bonafide they can have a second one yeah they can we can we all agree with that sure okay so then it's one slash two for less than five acres under those conditions two for five acres and four for 10 or more with the $100 if you're Bonafide $100 fiveyear fee if you're bonafied act to have the S inspected to make sure you're playing by the rules the $500 if you're Renning it out for five years is that where we're at so far does anybody have anything else days and and it's 179 days and that we will allow people who have contracts for this year to honor their contracts is that one final question one final question okay and it's always been a Sticky Wicket and it's groom's quarters um RVs what's on page 261 RVs may be utilized for Grooms Cotter purposes is subject to section 10-15 definitions which allows um one Grooms quarters for every six stalls so until we go back and address that technically it seems like Grooms quarters may be RVs direction that was given at the last meeting but we can certainly change that if there's a have one groups supporter for every six stalls they got to build themselves little groups quarters I well I mean it and and again that to me that just falls under your everybody gets one yeah call it what you want and they can put all six grooms in one correct okay I just want to clarify that because this says well a Grooms a groom and a caretaker are kind of the same thing you know like I said you might have the horse proper or whatever okay are we all good with that anybody have anything want to add right I wanted to know um how is the a community um going to be made aware of these new fees and their need for uh paying um expenses that they've never had to pay before um you know and um um okay leave it like that we we can get it out on social media we can put it on the website we can send a flyer out um and obviously um a lot of people in the room tonight will spread the word and and the uh status of what we uh discussed needs to go out to the whole Community too because oh yes um you know they may have their head in the sand that there's nothing going on around uh that pertains to them whereas they're in violation of our rules okay um if I if I may and I'm not I'm not trying to throw a wrench into anything I'm just I'm G to try for a point of clarity here you have an existing ordinance in place um and it is you know it's sh it's shown here on uh page 259 um that that section 20-50 recreational vehicles is it it's all crossed out but it's in your current code right now that's why it's crossed out correct um so right now you have rules in place so to the point of it what happens for somebody who comes in tomorrow and all those kind of Grandfather issues right now they have to follow those codes I can come in if I had you know the right circumstances and I can get a permit um for an 180 day period um that would allow me for to have uh two um if I was at two acres to 10 acres um and or if I had over 10 right now somebody comes in tomorrow they say I would like to apply for this because I have 10 acres and I want four we is the permit can we put a motion for a moratorium and put the program on until after second reading then people can come in for their permits is that what you're no I mean my my suggest when you were thinking about grandfathering and those kind of things is if you have an existing permit then you would be grandfathered for that period of time as t as the town attorney indicated that permit is not a permit for life that permit is for 180 days and my understanding is it's an annual permit right so so I think that's what I was saying so basically if let's use as an example someone that had a piece of property that qualifies under the current um ordinance to have three RVs and they've made an agreement to rent those three RVs they would come in and they would get a permit under our current code um and if in when right now this ordinance was drafted at council's Direction I believe to take effect in October so they would come in right now and get the permit under the existing ordinance and it would be good for correct and when the new law takes effect in October we're not going to tell them no you gotta you know you gotta change everything they're going to get to keep make the they're going to get the benefit of the bargain that they made and when that permit expires they're GNA meet the current code I think that's what you're trying to say yes yeah so the obligation would be on the get totally REM right the the any reference to it in the current ordinance would really just be Surplus language if you set off the effective date in October gotta Laura something else to add well well now since we have more mud thrown into something that was almost clear um so did we think that having the moratorium for the application is a good thing or a bad thing okay the the folks who came here and and said what about me this year come in and apply under the the current regulations if you meet the current regulations you get your permit that's they don't the people that are talking don't meet the current regulations they've got four these on the property that's well one of them that we got an email six acres that doesn't meet the current R that's why we're saying contract if you have a contract you still need to apply excuse me Madam chair for speaking up but that contract that you've already got will allow you to go over that allotment this year this year only yeah this year only up to a maximum four yeah I don't think we'd want to be in a position where we're issuing permits against the code I'll let the yeah Madam attorney they would still have to meet the current code so if you made a contract last month and you have plans for the upcoming season um this ordinance doesn't take effect till October and it's got to pass second reading the way that it's drafted right now and the point is they couldn't contract for six because that's illegal that would be a violation of your credit code right if you were allowed to have four and you contract for four and now you'd only be able to have two you could have the four for the next year and then come next October you have to reduce it down to the two but we can't issue permits that are in violation of your current code that un water yeah just one last question of TDM so if we pass this this resolution tonight on first reading how can you say all of this striketh through language is still valid but we're just passing the change the effective date the current effective date is noted as you know the date of the adoption but we'll put in language that offsets the effective date until October one next year this year this year yes okay and we can still have first reading even though we F changes that's right you can make changes between first and second abely can I take a stab at the first reading go for make a motion to approve ordinance with the following changes um section 92-10 B the application fee for $500 will be for fiveyear site [Music] approval and then there there will be another fee per RV of what $100 for Bonafide a usage not renting oh I'm sorry yeah not renting so the bonafied egg basically caretakers correct it's $100 for the fiveyear fee correct that's for the site correct and then for those renting RVs when they come in it's a $100 per RV for maximum 179 days right just five yeah that's the site that's the site approved for five years up 600 or 700 for two 800 for three you would no the first year but you don't repay that 500 every year that's good for five years then and when you actually get a rener in there have a contct then you would pay $100 for that for the does that transfer with ownership if the property is sold I would say no yeah say no that so what advantage is there to do it for five years you never know what ba is going to have in store well because a lot of people live here for longer than years people live here for 20 years building business and then the other change being 10 acres or more get four RVs and remove the grandmother and removing the grandfather and removing personal information from the application I know that's not in here yeah let's have the application let's have the application at second rating absolutely yes I mean it doesn't have to be part of the ordinance but it should be backup material as a reference okay you done with your motion um just the did you put in the days extend to7 okay all right so do I have a second I second the um um $100 fee for the a um facilities I mean they may have more than one uh care uh caretaker or worker it's a site fee it's a whole site thing if they've got four RV with their 10 acres they just put in a drawing with all four and pay the $100 so that we can pay somebody to go out and make sure they're not dumping Beal matter on the ground and make sure that their water is coming correctly and everything that's and the the um uh Coastal Collection you know if if they're functioning already with two dumpsters that they're already paying for why should they have to pay an additional $450 for another Dum that's not okay so so anything about dumpsters is gone yep says you're responsible as the property owner PR sanit okay got it it's arangements okay got it all right all in favor okay we need a second I did you did okay all in favor I Amen to Z and and just to let you know for your for your folks out there who are concerned that wow I'm in that limbo where the council wants to give me a break but they the staff is saying we can't give them a permit what we can do at your further Direction at another time time next month let us know on second reading well I just but I want I want I want to let them I want to let them know the good news you can give us direction that for those folks who meet the spirit and intent of what you were saying that oh you've got contracts and we're going to honor them our code enforcement process will um not will not be expeditious enough to prevent them from having um their uh contracts honored this year thank you okay we're on to number 18 that's also Mr C discussion of the Moors thank you so much for being here this is where we've got to do a little dance I'm gonna try to oh I'm gonna take oh the clicker over there he has to sit here I've got sit did we really just get that done you just got that so this item is on the agenda just a little history just a little history for anybody who wants to know this item is on the agenda because we've spent about two years trying to unravel some history um and we are nearing completion with working with South Florida Water Management District to get um a permit for 43rd where we built the road that where we paved the road um but I am now going to turn over to Mr CTS who can give you far more detail we have had our engineers and attorneys take a look at this and generally speaking despite the complaints this is more of a civil matter in the area um aside from our need to get the permit that we are close to obtaining Mr CTS go ahead okay um can you all hear me and can you all see the the screen up there yes sir what I am showing you on the screen is the area um around 145th Avenue North and 43rd Road North okay um this area that is west of 145 uh oh now you have blinded me you lost your cursor I lost I lost my screen should just let me shout just look up there we can still see it up there yeah all right you're back it was back all right so the area um west of 145th um was this area right in here that that was developed in the late 60s 70s Global Enterprises I think uh was the the outfit that owned most of these properties they put the roadway easement it was a private easement um and it encompasses on the Deeds the east 30 feet of all these properties and the Southern 30 ft of the um southernmost property so there was an easement there so that the way you used to be able to um get out or you were intended to get out was that this Culvert right here did not exist so people would come down and then go across to uh D um Road Culvert there um this area up here is what is referred to as more Groves um and it consists of uh these these Lots 11 Lots with the exception of this one it's not included in the um unrecorded plat that is the basis of the subdivision and the basis of 43rd Road North coming out here and that when that was developed they got a permit um from South Florida Water Management District um and the access points were out onto 140th and according to the Deeds of all these folks they also had access along this area and that southern portion of um those lots to d Road so they had two access points um and this area the date on the um unrecorded plaid is 1982 uh so that was the development scheme um for for this area um it was intended to be private roads along there and um Incorporation uh came about and prior to incorporation see if I can this is the Swank property okay um this property was purchased in I want to say it was either 1998 or 2000 but 2 but this area right this area right here they have a northern access point onto 145 and they have a southern access point onto 145th in the deed for this property um in the history of the deed for this property there is access across here um this Southern um these two Southern Lots along an easement and across uh to Dad is how that property was intended to get out prior to Incorporation operation um after Wilma uh the this area was cleared of some debris and those kind of things and it was at that point in time that Mr Swank um he had the folks in there clearing um the damage that had been incurred from Wilma and he said can you put in an access point up here um and he uh felt that he had the right to do that um based on the fact that it was an agricultural Improvement uh the permitting agencies at that point in time would have been uh the district um the lockah hatche water Control District in Palm Beach County um the uh the district became aware of this Mr Swank had a a conversation with um the manager at the time um or the administrator at the time and he advised him I don't need a permit for this agricultural um uh Improvement it's okay and so he put in a driveway and underneath the driveway there's a culvert for drainage this actually exists on the lados property who own that um when you said this actually was this this this driveway this driveway access exists on their property because 145th exists on their property remember I told you it was a 30 foot access easement the actual placement of the road prior to the town or the district's involvement in maintaining it um was set off outside of the thir F feet is my understanding so that the actual um Western Ed is physical property but it's still an easement on the it's an easement yes there's a 30 foot easement on the the ladia property so uh the ladios and the sanks have had some disagreements over the years as to the legitimacy of that um uh I think that uh there was a situation where there have been some demands made and attorneys hired but nobody has gone to court to straighten out what the rights were um or were not now what ends up happening in the 2012 time period is that these folks up in here are denying access on 43rd to these folks on 145th um and the folks on 145th didn't have a clear right of access onto 43rd because 43rd was established after 145th and remember these folks had those lots had been PL planned um first and they had they were supposed to come out and come down here now if we can show this let's see if we can get on there okay when you look at this and you see where the actual roadway is guess what that roadway and I think this was the circumstance back at that time period doesn't fall on this property or this property it's down here on the Canal bank easement which is um Town well District yeah but yes in 2012 it was the district's um property and so what the lados and and apparently the district was saying hey we don't want folks to be driving on these areas because suppose the story I've heard and I'm not 100% sure on this but story I've heard was there was discussion about using the Canal bank easement for equestrian uh purposes and equestrian trails and so we did not want it to be a thoroughfare with cars where the district did not at that point in time and so the lados um said hey how am I going to get out of my property up here um because I can't go this way that's been blocked off um and the district is saying I'm not supposed to go here so their title company on behalf of them filed an action and it's ladios versus everybody in this area um and including the the district and the result of that lawsuit was that the district got dismissed um because I think after they filed the action they realized hey that roadway um does not exist uh there is no easement right over the canal and where the easement was supposed to be the roadway doesn't exist um and so the Swank um they were defendants in the lawsuit and their Title Company became involved because they were respon they were represented by Barbara Richardson and Alis sort who at the time and I think may still work for shuts and Bowen or be partners at shuton Bowes and I happen to know that they do a lot of title work um so I could tell that that's what it was they were representing a title insurance company the end result of that uh was a settlement um the district was not privy to the settlement um there are uh Records that indicate that the case was going to be dismissed and it looked like everybody was going to resolve things the resolution ended up being we're going to put in this Culvert Crossing right here so that 145th essentially goes straight across and has direct connection to to North Road so that those Parcels are no longer landlocked um and that was that was done um the engineer who designed this road uh was also the engineer who at the time I believe was the engineer for the district um so there was a real good chance that they were going to get the rightaway permit um approved um the the permit is uh Darren Swank um but the Swank advised me no they didn't pay anything for that it was the title insurance companies that had cobbled the money together um and they paid for it and they hired uh the uh um engineer and the engineers plans got approved and it was put in by a contractor that was hired by the title um company all in the name of the the Swank but um that's how that happened and then a little later in history we have a situation in which 140th is being closed off at the request of I um and uh there is about that same time um this this property here these lots are owned by the Larson family and the property I think is known as Little Turtle Creek um and they did not want folks to go this way to get to 14 uh 5th and so after considerable discussion and a couple of meetings um the Council on March 30th this Council um some of you were here some of you uh were not but uh the Town Council approved an agreement with the Marson family to have this road put in 43rd alternate it some people refer to it as Larry's road but the bypass byass okay so so that that road was that the property for that road was deeded to the town by the lson um and they contributed somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 some odd thousand to have this road put in the road was put in by um Town staff um and that became the roadway now prior to that and since at least 2014 it's my understanding there had there had been courtesy grades prior to to this and um but after this Culvert is put in the town uh Slash district is maintaining 145th um and we we've got maintenance also on 43rd Road north um and so the private nature of these roads um is no longer private the town and the district the town and primarily has considered the these to be public roads otherwise you wouldn't have put in the bypass between two private roads um so you have a history now where we have said that this is a public road system it has been on the tax map since uh beginning of the town's tax maps in 2008 at least 145th as um uh so by all evidence we consider this a public road system now and this is the way people go now when the bypass was put in part of the council Direction was to make sure it was permitted properly um and at the time uh which is before uh your current manager's tenure as manager um there was no application to South Florida Water Management District um which had originally permitted 43rd um from both a road perspective and a drainage perspective um my supposition um is that um the folks didn't recognize um that this was a new roadway because if it had been the existing roadway you wouldn't have had to get a permit under the south Florida water man management um rules but because this link is new you do have to do a permit modification um and um last last year the manager um engaged enged uh kesar and Associates to secure the necessary retroactive permits for this area and modify the permits so that all the permitting for this would be um up to snop um permit applications have been made um we think we are close to um getting those permits uh and the most recent correspondents I think because in the last day or so where we have reiterated to South Florida that we thought we had met all of their um issues with respect to issuing the permit but so that process is underway come back to this little covert right here these folks right here were um M Weber who lives on the property the property is uh titled by CH in the name of christen St John as the actual owner but these folks complain about the drainage condition here um and they complain about the propriety of the issuance of the permit or non-issuance of the permit and they have sent correspondents that alleges that within our um ordinances there is a requirement um that if there is a non-permitted culvert the district has the responsibility and the town has the responsibility to yank it out okay um and the engineers that the town has had look at this situation um and most recently not an engineer but uh Craig I think went out there today to check on and see whether or not they are experiencing flooding problems um the the engineers have looked at that Culvert and they have said should not be a problem from the way it's designed um and we have no pictures evidence of massive flooding in the area um the public works department has not gotten a whole bunch of complaints saying come on out here and look at this Greg went out there today and we've had a lot of rain over the weekend there was rain today and the verdict was it there's not a there's not a problem you have to speak in the mic correct how big is that pip pipes 18inch inside diameter so it's a 24 outside concrete pipe it's not the pipe it's actually the ditch going along down it alongside that road so there is a giant Australian pine about where he just had the M or the mic at that we that I went down and inspected I believe it's Australian pine that is raising the center of the Swale up that is blocking the Waterway those swes are by vation yeah the whole so yeah so that we're gonna I've already talked to Mr slank last week myself and Richard have that we're going to go over them we're going to mow all back far as we can to clear the entire ditch back so we can see down to the bottom of it to see what we can clear out of it and we'll also talk to the little Doos about yeah you need to get asalon in there because you've got wires up trees yes so as far as we can reach we won't get anywhere near into the wires but we can get to the point where we can clear the actual ditch way the sale itself so we can actually try to pull whatever in the way but if it is that giant Australian pines that are there we'll have to have somebody come in and remove that because that's too close to wires or anything for us and and um with respect to to the complaint the complaint that says you really should do this um is referring to a section of the code um it is a phrase not even an entire sentence out of um the code area um that doesn't reference uh the three precursors to it so it's like a subsection of a subsection of a subsection and the bottom line on that subsection that's talking about the district having the ability to um remove an improvement um it's really talking about a situation where you're actually in one of our canals and the flow of water is being impacted by a structure in the canal and if it was unpermitted then the town would have the ability to or the district would have the ability to um remove that so the little phrase that leads to the complaint um is a misconstruction of uh what it was intended to to be um the evidence is that that Culvert um is not the the problem um we are in the process as I said of getting the permit um modified over here um and Craig and his folks are going to continue the exploration of what can be done to improve the drainage in that area and as I said unless this um Council wants to think about abandoning this road we consider it a uh a public roadway um we how much that we still grade none of it it's pav it's paved all the way down to the back okay all and 43r everything yes everything is PED all the way to the guard rail 140 yeah can I just make a comment there is a restriction right there that's only I think a 12in c that goes from that ditch into the canal and that's been on the list to replace because you got 24 Ines Upstream of it and are you aware of that Craig yes I looked at it the the pipe the one that's at an angle yes I looked that when I was out there it's not that big I think it's a 15inch pipe is it yeah it looks like it's a 15in corrugated Upstream of it and that was on our list to replace that because it doesn't make sense you got all these 24s then at the very end where all the water collects is only a 15 so if there was a backup that's would be the joke point there yeah but so when I inspected it earlier the water is not making it to there so it is being stopped a good ways 200 ft before that easily by that Australian pine area it's yeah it's because blocked up back there yeah because when I went out there this it was the same water elevation on the Swank side of the property and then to the mor side it was same water elevation but then when you got yes and the ditch is holding water many acres all that up there yeah a 15 in so I want to believe the pipe that that we did on the Larry bypass is a 24 in ads pip 24 up there but yeah my point is that that 15 should have been replaced with at least a 24 if not something bigger you know because it's taken care of how many acres is that um well uh it's it's basically a with the with the exception with the exception of of the um the Sun what is it Sunport Sunport um there's 12 20 acres there was also an issue with Sunport drainage in that area too yeah right there was also a lawsuit involving Sunport and one of these yeah the weers were involved with property owners where the weers live were involved in that as I was expected I don't believe anything that was on the west side of the road was going to the east side ditch everything on the east side ditch is from the Swank's back to the mors properties all that back right corner so everything that's on the west side of the road does not go to that ditch so is that covered across the canal um standard what is the 40 148th is it as Wi on right now this one right here that's 145th 148th let's see how wide that is oh further down yeah this that's not 148 that's the to that one to that property right there they put that in one in well yeah that's that looks wider than the 145th too um my understanding is it was it was replaced at about the same time that this one was replaced I believe but I haven't seen the the permit for that did the county do that when they did that all that utility work on North Road I have no idea that 148 was done by the title company that was the one the Yang's property I believe I think that d Road where is 148 keep going keep going yes no that's 147 next one down keep going it be right there there's so that's that one right there is narrower I than the 145th MH um what what I haven't verified because we were only looking I was only looking at the existing one is that the there were some title issues and um there were there might have been several of these that were replaced by title uh or through title insurance companies um what this this is on your agenda to bring you up to speed on what's going on in the area known as more more Groves um and uh I think you've been apprized the one thing that we do recommend is um we try to get uh as as I said this was the permit on this was Darren Swank but it is um a public access way um and we should um get them to Quick Claim or dedicate uh all their interest in that to the town because it really is a um public C at what point in time are we going to start um going after those easen come come back down where you were uh that show show the intersection where the 145th goes across not quite that bad it's this website get close right there zoom in right there this the box is Sunport yeah you want Sunsport no um the the the Culvert Crossing at 145th enlarge it now the trail the horse trail um west of the culber then then the easement that you said is supposed to be the road at what point in time will we reclaim that and start getting the road where it belongs well this this road this road we don't the the road was supposed to be on their property the easement road and it was either never developed or um it uh faded away with time and cars came along here my understanding is that cars are not supposed to be going on this area um the access point is through here there's no reason for anybody to drive along there so then you need to close off that driveway is that a permitted right where your arrow is was that a permitted entrance or was that just a i they they have they have access onbody yes oh that's not good who's r car oh hopefully I know I didn't open mine I hope it hasn't been raining so your question has to do with this connection road yeah the uh road that should be there that isn't well but and the question was is that their driveway access that is some sort of driveway but we we we have to to look at it their their driveway access under the current configuration should be there if they wanted to bring this over on their property that would be perfectly okay because I think there are some places along that area where the uh road is where it belongs and the Canal Trail is is near it but it doesn't go from 140th over yeah and and looking at and looking at this area right here the roadway that you see is reilt already it's all on the Canal bank is rebuilt already we rebuilt that road already what I have to say when when you're done I've got a a head scratcher appears to be a bunch of unresolved issues unresolved circumstances there it appears that we have made some mistakes we being the town have made some mistakes over past years like putting that road in without permitting it it appears that some of the residents have been infighting over a variety of different reasons and it appears that there's still quite a bit of work to do to actually get the drainage and the uh systems functioning as they need to function up there so it appears that we've got a little bit of a mini mess up there are you confident as sta that you are doing everything that you can do at this time to try to resolve all of these situations concurrently before you go M I have been threatened being sent to ethics because I won't get on the excavator and go rip that covert out of the ground um because it's somehow of personal benefit to me that I won't do that um there there is no justification for us to there's no justification for us going and ripping that CT out and that we are doing everything that we can do within our power and within the law to try to resolve this multitude of situations concurrently yeah yes and the agenda item asks for direction from the council however I believe that council member danowski has some questions and I I don't know whether I should make these recommendations until we hear that or not okay go thank you my my question's pretty easy so the like you're saying the infighting is because somebody was unhappy about a culvert which I it's unfortunate that the public road is on somebody's private property but my question is to whom does the ditch belong and and and there there you go so if it's an easement who is supposed to have been cleaning it out all these years the property owners yeah the property owner because it's on their property right yeah but I mean we've mowed it back twice we've been we've been maintaining the road and to the extent that the ditch is associated with the road um well there in lies the discussion point for us to have because um as we've been going through the town all year and evaluating the roads and the conveyances including the ditches we have found as of right now not including this about $250,000 worth of ditches that need to be cut back and restored and can I inter interrupt you for one second because this is going to bring very familiar for Laura who sat on the water Control District with me for a number [Music] of we were told because this particular covert is one that I actually went to Steve Yohi about to try to clear up and I was told by him and by Mary VOR at nauseum regardless of how much I argued with them about how much that would resolve the situation if we could take care of some of these that you cannot expend public funds on private property you can't however so how are we doing I think that this whole area and Jeff you could cut me off if you'd like but my experience with this whole segment of our town is that first of all timing has been different over the years and this came in after the original plat of the town so a lot of this is unplatted and the roads are not where the easements are supposed to be and the drainage isn't where the drainage is supposed to be it's all a little bit um you know so are you saying that because it's within the EAS I'm trying to answer the question and that is that it wasn't actually ever part of what anybody planned and worked on it was originally it's been done by individual property owners which is why we have the issue with the title companies and one of the questions that we have for Council is what further action would you like us to take and I did hear you say that we need to go look where we have public access and try to have that dedicated to us and we certainly know that we have to investigate easements because we've been doing that a number of times um but I guess that's really what we need to know how much unraveling should we do of the past is the answer to my question that when the you have the land owners's permission and it's within what could be considered a rodis me even though it wasn't platted as such it's considered that right um that you can expend those funds because it's for the greater good of the whole Community to get all our drainage connected and fixed up is that an accurate I no I think I think I think the the thing that we are doing right now that Craig is is talking about doing is evaluating the situation right and once we have a full evaluation of the the situation then we can talk about remedies and and cost and expenses because I know we need it on 160 first we cleared those those that have been overgrown for years that are private property we cleared those those drainage sells so so we expended public funds on private property those those were actually in drainage ements and here it's a little bit more but an eement and an a drainage easement allows us to do it drainage easement allows us to do that so clearly something that was dug as a drainage s has to be a drainage easement correct even though it's all overgrown now has to be at some point considered a drainage s well that's the big question that has to be untangled because we have un recorded plats in this area we have other unrecorded plats throughout town where we do have some of our worst drainage ditch issues are in areas of unrecorded plats the process that we've been going forward with for the last several years is where we have easements for roads we are proceeding and fixing the road and any related drainage that's related to the road where we have drain drainage easements or if we don't have drainage easements we've been obtaining drainage easements so that we may fix the related coverts that need to be there for the road and also for the flow of water and flood control in this particular area there are more Tangled easements and Roads not in the same place as the easement was that's what Mr CTS explained so we have to untangle this a little bit more to know what's in our easen and what's not and that's the direction we would have to have get this resolve because this has been a thorn for a long time decade yes yeah a decade yes so like I said did you need to get easements uh in order to put the millings in there or is that what part of the problem it was unpermitted no the the there is an easement for an egress de thead was where it was except for the bypass the road was where it was since um 1987 I think but certainly before our incorporation some of the roads were there actually even earlier than that so we didn't have to get any EAS however like Jeff pointed out a road emerged on a Canal bank and it was not supposed to be used as a road and it was that that's why there was the Culvert put in so that the access could be in a different way and prevent that from happening yeah so we have other untangling to do in that area of where the road was placed not by us but the the the basis at some point in time your four fathers and for mothers up there on the Town Council um you know asserted um that this was a publicly maintained Road and began the maintenance on it it's been on the tax map correct since 2008 there is good evidence certainly since 2014 that that roadway has been maintained by uh the the town SL District those millings were not put in by um the neighborhood they were put in by this entity so that's the maintenance so it has been a period of time in which uh this is a public road the process if you wanted to not make it a public road would be to abandon it and you know go through that process um which we are not recommending you do with respect to the the roadways what we have been focusing on this year especially on what I'll call interior roadways because they're not adj immediately adjacent to the the canals is we've got to deal with drainage part of having a road is drainage associated with that road can't have one without the other um and so where are maintenance responsibil um has existed for a long enough period of time on these roads where the easements were I understand that it's it's private property on that those easements were were on but we're saying you had an easement that was going to locate a road and a drainage system here we are reestablishing that um that roadway and drainage system system so that the roadway will work so is there enough money in the budget for working on clearing that um debris out of that gonna be a discussion for next year for next week well I think we're going to talk about it a little bit later on in this agenda after we talk about code and in the quarterly report you see the areas that have already been identified for clearing ditches and that total $251,000 and I don't believe it includes getting dedications or clearing these ditches out so yeah so we will based on this discussion move forward to try to get the necessary dedications where we have public um well I think we're going to evaluate the situation right we'll come back with recommendations as to okay okay what what can everybody what can be done water the email Randy well submitted the permit they haven't given any comments yet this is this is right we've actually done phone calls with them and at one point in time we thought there was somebody trying to hold the permit up um we the letter that you saw from Randy says since we've never heard back from you after our phone call with you and our four different followups um we are considering that you have all the information that that you need please let us know what the timeline is to finish the keeps being referred to um I believe that we paid the fee yeah not the contention of the emails we we haven't we have not received that email from South Florida Water Management District we have not received that email saying you didn't pay the fee from the south Florida Water Management District so to receive emails saying that we haven't paid and then that's what that's holding the the permit up Randy is looking into that thank you all right is there any money that could have us progress a little bit down to that Australian time at least to see if the water starts FL first thing we have to do is we're going to go in and mow it back okay we have to mow back all the vegetation okay to assess what's in the what's further down in the ditch itself okay there's a lot of vegetation in there so maybe that'll pacify yeah first thing is first is okay go it first we're skipping item 19 I think we beat this one um let's move on to item 20 that's the discussion on Code Enforcement and remedies that we spoke about needed no public comment we're all alone I can have it after the disc after the staff discussion I I think this is just another segment in a continuing conversation of Code Enforcement um it is a followup to the last conversation that we have there are a number of items in here for discussion and direction from the council um I will say before Tanya goes over um her portion I want wanted to say that I put in here a term sheet for some third-party administrative services that are similar to services that we've had in the past were nonoccupied non owner occupied properties which means that it would include vacant properties foreclosures and rentals um we have not spoken at length with the vendor relative to any particular element of the term sheet and Mr tvia wanted me to make sure that he shared with everyone this is to just give you an idea of the different things that could be available to us and that we will continue to work with the vendor to bring something more refined to the council but we are looking at any and all remedies that there can be to um cover more ground if you will in terms of um issues that plague the community as opposed to um you know the um you know as we've been as it's been suggested that we you know pick and choose we are not we're looking to try to cover all of the issues that have built up over the last couple of decades now uh we have had this company uh under another name uh before yes and and um have we ever received any benefit uh of a property of becoming Town owned as a result of their service we had not and the time that they were actually performing that service I don't believe that we would and that that is a beautiful segue to let Tanya go into her conversation about foreclosures and how we might address them so Madam vice mayor if I may um our office was asked to give kind of a brief summary of some uh potential options that the town may have for purposes of code enforcement and um potential remedies um and the First on that list is foreclosure lawsuits we had spoken about that at a prior council meeting and a council gave direction to kind of come back with maybe some parameters for what kind of project properties we would want to consider for foreclosure with the idea always being that staff would come to council first prior to um filing any lawsuit get it we would get approval um from Council and um so we were kind of looking for some guidelines of where to start and Council wanted those guidelines so what's recommended in the memo right now is um potentially properties um that are running more than $100,000 in fines properties that have been out of compliance for at least one year excuse me one second I just want to make sure that for those two we said either or not that they had to be in conjunction I would just want to make sure that's clear because that's what we said last time because you could get $100,000 worth of fines in a month if you are out of compliance with six things so you don't have to wait a year so we want to make sure that the either or I think is there for that thank you for that clarification that that that is certainly the way I intended to to convey that so um and then just maybe authorizing a catch all for staff to if there's an extraordinary circumstance or you know something that's really that needs attention just for us to be able to bring that to you but I imagine those situations would be rare and few and far between um so if uh I don't know mayor if you wanted to get consensus on that first or if you wanted to move on the other is everybody okay with those those parameters for yesterday yes okay yes we are all good with that okay um on to the next so the abandoned property code which kind of feeds in with um what we were with the I'm going to call it a proposal that's attached to the end of the agenda press um a while back the town adopted this code um and Ne we you never really had the you never really had an enforcement mechanism and or a structure for enforcing it yeah have teeth correct so you know with your direction we can move forward with the proposed ordinance that kind of gives it some teeth gives some parameters um what kind of um Authority do you want to give the the town manager to step in when necessary because there's um language there that allows her to take action and also you I would also recommend building in um some kind of due process procedure for um for the property owner in case the town does need to expend funds in terms of taking action and then collect that back from the property owner so we want to make sure we build a due process there that would be my recommendation so with the with your approval and with with any ideas that you might have on this subject we can bring forth a proposed ordinance anybody have anything on this everybody okay this is on the abandoned property correct yes Ma'am why in God's name would the town I'm sorry Bing problem there for additionally article to imposes maintenance requirements irrigation regular maintenance of pools and spas that would fall under the mortgage holder or the town it would fall under the property owner who has already said goodbye to the property it's abandoned right so and I think the the way that this was originally drafted was a bank would own it at at that point or a bank would be in the process of trying to recover of the property and so it would impose on them the they would be the first line of correcting the problem okay I just want to make sure that doesn't fall on us no ma'am there there is there is a provision in the code right now that says basically if there's an extraordinary circumstance I'm paraphrasing but if there's an extraordinary circumstance and um that requires the attention of the town the the town manager can step into quote unquote secure the property um and that's where we kind of what does that mean well it's too bad that um Captain Turner left because you know where we have an abandoned property or where we sent Craig on Friday to um you know put signs up and chains and tape and cones and we also put rocks on the back side of it to keep somebody from coming through the property so that's the kind of you know emergency type procedures and we did talk to our attorney before we did it Mar you had something you wanted to ask or no no okay so is everybody okay with giving instruction to move on with an abandoned property code yeah and this would be the kind of stuff that we would put back on contract because the issue with the abandoned properties the foreclosed properties and the non-owner occupied properties are dealing with the banks and you know is that this contract back here with it Community but this is not a contract this was an offer letter for discussion I just made sure that I put it in here so that everybody knew we were okay with their we haven't talked about we have not spoken about this it is an offer letter to open conversation why would C enforcement violation it is a code enforc violation but when you're dealing with banks you don't really get anywhere and so one of the reasons that you use the property registry is so that they deal with all of the several different layers of banking departments and foreclosure departments and so on and so forth and they make sure that the property maintenance gets done or the bank ends up having to pay fines but again this is just an opening negotiation does you pay them 12 Grand a year we have one I'm just telling you that's what this offer says they want 12 Grand a year and they want take 50% of the money that's recovered which it is it is strictly right about availability of services we have not talked to them about a contract should we decide to proceed you will obviously be looking at contracts and Scopes and there might be somebody else available that might be a little bit more reasonable besid we did try and the pre-existing company can offer some but not all you know the company that was sold can offer some but not all but we will go ahead and show matching Scopes and prices okay thank you for clearing that up okay so I think we're all okay with moving on and trying to negotiate that citations okay so the next item is citations um a lot of municipalities have them written into their codes currently um your code does not and the question is do you want to have this yes yes because those correct me if I'm wrong those can be done more instantly than having to wait for you do go out you do the code violation you do that you go to the magistrate here and you do this you do that do the other this is a citation you're in you're in violation and you have 60 days to come into compliance or else we put a code enforcement action or something along those lines it it it varies in terms of how different Juris itions enacted um frequently where you see citations would be like parking tickets um that would be a good example or it would fit well probably with with the RVs for example like if you failed to file an application or update an application you may want to site someone for that and then it's like a one-time fee and you know they pay they pay the ticket and keep it moving um so to speak as opposed to engaging in a long time more timec consuming process so it's kind of like you get a ticket and you decide are you g to pay it or you going to challenge it can we can use this for livestock waste too which we haven't had a good mechanism for the livestock waste we have to go through the arduous process of the irreparable and irreplaceable so yes so it it's it doesn't um a lot of places some places we'll send those to a special Magistrate some citations go to County Court it just depends on how the code is drafted and um and with the citations have a clear schedule yes you would need to adopt a fee schedule adopt a clear clear fee schedule so people would know what they're exactly how are you cited is it tied on your gate is it handed by a process server is it an email it's in most cases except in the case of parking tickets it's it when it's just left on your windshield I mean usually a code officer is probably going to hand you the citation okay everybody okay with moving forward with the c question so you mentioned several different ways to imp that ad Circuit County court right it would be usually a matter or County court judge that would that would oversee it or rule give us both options or what what are the benef you want to talk about that now or um that's something that we can hash out in the the drafting phase I mean I think my recommendation if you're asking me right now it's probably easier to set those before a magistrate because you're gonna use less staff time and it's local it's right here so I think that's easier more cost effective um you know that that would be my recommendation but you would treat it the way I I'm think is it's most efficient because some places will say like the mayor suggested um here's a warning basically you have 60 days in this case it's like here's your citation pay it or challenge it we do magistrate everything stays here correct and they they get their chance for a hearing county cler count now yeah they challenge it now your officer that wrote it needs to show up and and I would like to see on the citations an option to rectify it within a certain amount of time kind of like I'm going to give an examp example if you're driving without your driver's license right and you and you come into court and show that you had a driver's license that just was at home on the kitchen table where you left it and you bring it in and show that you you have your driver's license the same thing with something like this you know like I would like to see the citations especially for things like let's say a BTR or a citation for something like the RV ordinance that you have X amount of days to you know to rectify the situation before fees are incurred because again I would like to CIT no I think it could be a citation with the ability to rectify I mean I do think there there could be something with that so in I do believe there can be that's why I'm asking the question it's like a warning ticket yeah kind of like a warning citation kind of like you know right so I yeah that I mean either however you want to do it like to see that you would like to I would like to see everything that we can do to put in place the benefit of the doubt for the residents to try to give us some teeth but to put the benefit of the doubt in the favor of our message well we do that right now we recoup any expenses that we have to expend as a town uh to rectify this situation you know to shake hands and say you know come by well every single thing that we would do that would get a citation is all towards getting things in compliance and so just like we let people do tree exemptions for that somebody gets in compliance right away we end up saving the time that we spend doing the magistrate process so let's say we give a ticket and we give somebody 30 we give a citation and it's got a $500 fine on it but if they clean it up in 30 days they don't have to pay the fine something that's what I would like to say then we don't have to go through the noov which is mailing and time and so on if they get it cleaned up we still did the visit like we would have done with the noov except we got it in compliance faster we didn't have to go to the magistrate and everybody knows we mean business situation has the possibility of getting things rectified much more quickly correct and let's face it the magistrate usually forgives the fines anyhow or reduces them significantly as we've seen historically so you know what is the posting requirements of they very strict posting requirements for code enforcement so how does this this sounds like there's no posting requirements so if I may um this would be a supplemental um means of enforcement um so it would be kind of operating outside of chapter 162 so it you could in my opinion be handed a citation or Serve by mail or how you know could be left on your windshield I know we don't do parking tickets here but that's that's the most common example that I've seen um in my practice um but it doesn't need to be certified mail posted on the property Etc unless that's something that Council chooses and you write that into your code well I think the other thing too is that we are aren't encumbered by the same fee schedule that we are for um code enforcement we can have more specific fees for citations depending on their severity within the state law correct and and to to your point um and uh sorry for jumping in mayor but um to your point I would say if there are certain offenses so to speak that you want to give a warning time for and maybe you could select those out yeah well as we as we refine this I think that's a great thing some some that know this is egregious and and mayb they pay something right away and some that okay you have this much time to rec right because the driver's license on the kitchen table in exactly right in setting fees you're going to have to look at each each violation individually correct anyway so got it everybody okay with having her move along with citation program yes yes yes okay camera program the camera program is something we've been working on seemingly forever however Palm Beach county is about to put some cameras on Southern and okobi I don't know Craig if you want to speak to this and one of the reasons that we wish to use the cameras and we plan to use the same kind of cameras that PBSO uses they're solar powered and so on and so forth and that's because we can better um attempt to catch the illegal dumping and the illegal dumping of lots of different things not just the livestock waste um and other code violations we can get as well one thing I want to mention while we're here um is not NE necessarily code enforcement but during last year's legislative section um the law was changed that you can use um cameras to do speed control in school zones so we are looking at speed control in school zones with cameras at the western boundary of um the town on okobi and the eastern boundary so we're kind of excited about what camera program can do for us because it can also help us with our V traffic in and out with you know um in different placement we'll be able to see some of the things you know that we're not able to see now so it's also very low cost very low cost the um the school zone ends in Royal Palm it doesn't even start in wat gr you can speak to the the school zone yeah the school zone actually does go right into the edge of our boundaries onto fome but the sign now is right in the middle of well it's before fome road now so the way they the school zones do go is say the sign would be here so we could put it at our boundaries and because the school board actually like their property line is right there so the boundary would go further so their boundary does go further just like if you go in go to the Western Property theirs goes all the way to almost B Ro or to a road that sign goes right there so as PBSO would enforce it as if they would sit there shooting radar they would sit shoot radar further back coming at the sign as our sign would be sitting there shooting radar going into the school into the actual school zone so this camera program and that camera program will both be coming back to you um hopefully by September 3rd if not by October 1st okay thank you inspection warrants so uh we were asked to kind of give a summary of that item mayor it it's something that's already authorized by state statute um and typically these are used in a in the local government context in a code enforcement type case or um land use type case um when it's suspected that there is a violation present on a property but the town doesn't have permission to enter the property um so but we've never used this we always just say we don't have access so you're asking for direction for us to create a program where we can actually gain access is that is that correct I think that's that is what the town manager is asking asking for okay um I will say I just want to warn you that these are not frequently used um they are rarely used I don't think judges are used to seeing them um so I I would save these this for the again the most egregious circumstances right but but we do need something again talked about the fact that we need something for these we do have a number of agrees cases but we don't have access to the property you know um and figure out a way to get on this property so this is the way I'm all for it if anybody else feels I feel it yeah I think it should be a police officer I don't think we have a code officer that is capable going in front of a judge asking for a warrant I think that's kind of out of their daily work typically it be sta officer St and then I'm sure you would probably take a police officer to serve the warant yeah to execute we we actually often take a police officer to certain properties some properties we do not go to without a police officer the rare occasions you have to do you end up having a hearing in Fr of a judge and so our St that our legal council would that all this is just cost recovery hopefully in the end with the finds so it's part of the case yes okay we're good with that partnership with other agencies that's we kind of already talked about that that's we have and um unfortunately um both our fire chief and our um Captain have left but when our building official gets back from his vacation we are having a summit with the building official the health department the Fire Marshall um PBSO because we want to talk about um a more collaborative um effort on how we approach these from a multi- agency point of view and we're also going to include clude the homeless issue in that little Summit that we do good plan all right and the last part of it is compliance enforcement for property registration and btrs we we actually did talk about that already we're g to continue to have conversations um and bring it in front of you when we have a more refined approach on that okay because there was some Community concern about oh let's talk about the btrs for a moment okay excellent opportunity we don't we don't want to use code enforcement for btrs the way btrs works is first of all we're limited in our BTR program because we copied the village of Royal Palm Beach and we don't really get an opportunity to go back and change it to more tailor it to our town um I'm sorry that that's the way it is but that is what it is um you're saying we we don't have the capability of do we do not have the capability to go back and modify our btrs because the way the state law was written that it had to be in place by a certain period of time and you cannot go back and adjust it um and I am not an attorney so I am not going to try to modify fees for no you cannot modify fees it's it is what it is it is what it is by and we can have another attorney take a look at it but Elizabeth looked at it and um apped that we could not change our fees because if you recall we've looked at that no you can't change them well I think btr's adjusted all the time absolutely no I believe they are so I sure would like opinion on that mine were adjusted periodically when I had one in the city of Lakeworth Beach they changed and if they had adopted it prior to a certain period of time they could and they used to be able to be adjusted with an equity study and we because we picked up our BTR ordinance from a neighboring City we are fairly locked into what that neighboring city did I'd like somebody else to no problem second of all the State of Florida the county and the town offers exemptions from btrs the state's definition of the exemptions for agriculture do not expand into all the different levels of bonafied EG if somebody puts an exemption in because they're agricultural we will happily accept their exemption we are not auditing exemptions if somebody puts in an exemption that they're a veteran which we have exemptions for veterans we are not auditing the veterans exemption so um I if you're over 65 you are exempt from btrs if we wish to go ahead and look at how we can exempt all of our a business from um a BTR we can certainly have our attorney look at it there were 700 businesses listed in sunbiz that were registered and we use the sunbiz list to do a mail out to all of the registered businesses um and it wasn't an unfriendly letter um and we do we can like I said give exemptions for maybe six or eight different things and you know it protects everybody to place the exemption in because if somebody accuses somebody of running a business that they shouldn't be well if we have an exemption here we say yeah we know but their business is exempt Oh you mean like the RV repair shop up on a-road sorry 43rd and the staff's response was oh well we need to give them a BTR no you need to shut them down so let's talk about that because that's a limitation of our code enforcement our code enforcement and ours or anybody's isn't going to let us shut a business down unless we're using some type of injunction um and we have an attorney here who can explain that we can give them uh a code violation for an unpermitted activity we can have them go through a process any process that they wish to choose through our code and they can end up in front of council and be denied and then we can put a fine on them that will run on the property but we do not have the ability to shut a business down with anything that I am currently aware of of unless it is something that the police could shut down or the fire marshal could shut down please help me I generally chapter I'll tell you what you have right now on your books which is chapter 162 um that's structured to allow for fines and leans and foreclosure that's that's the path of enforcement right now um in terms of shutting a business down there are other things that might happen in terms of unsafe activities the building official has the ability to step in where there's a physically dangerous situa situation to Red Tag buildings and the like but if he can get on the property it's it's maybe not the same as being able it's not it's not like a court that might be able to Grant an injunction and say you stop doing this right now now um so I think with this other thing we could get injunctions but you need to stop doing this right now because this isn't in compliance with our code correct so if we could get a judge to agree so are you referring to the inspection warrants yes so the inspection warrant gives you access to get onto private property and at that point all you're doing is observing and then you leave and you build your code enforcement case and write a citation can you walk on that property and say there's 30 RVs here for whatever reason the 30 RVs are here we only allow two or four or however many there is for how many acres you have there and here's your citation right now um it if you you would need to have something in your code that that allows that you don't have that right now but the idea is it's kind of like a non-criminal version of a cc warrant right so normally you know law enforcement can't just come into your house they they have to have a warrant and be able to enter to be able to enter so this is the code enforcement version of that it just gets the officer on the property and at that point once he's on the property and able to observe he can site he or she can site um a code violation just like any other case let me ask you a different question how do you stop in the legals business like the RV repair shop at the end of 43rd from operating so what is the process to stop them from operating they are illegal they know they're illegal we all know they're illegal they're there we all know they're there how do we shut them down so again I I don't want to Pine specifically on any one set property but generally speaking you're limited in some sense to findes that are within the structure of chapter 162 so you just find them until they agree to shut down basically you find them you lean the property you foreclose on the lean okay um there are some circumstances where you may be able to go to court and get an injunction but you would have to go to a judge to do that and that's not necessarily connected to the inspection warrant that's all how did we close down the repair business on the a road we we did we did attempt to close it down and we did it through a series of different NOS but I don't think that we actually ended their activity I think they just changed the way they did it and I think that one was like what 3138 a road um but for for any the rbtr is not approval of Zoning for a business it's that you aren't paying your share of taxes for working in the town and that's what the business tax receipt is for we run the danger of getting a BTR in the business by does that run the danger of them being able to make a case in court that because they paid for a BTR that we approved the business no because it says right on there and it was from several different attorneys beginning with cillo and then going through the tvia office that as long as our BTR States on it that a BTR is in no way approval of zoning because we don't do a certificate of use and a certificate of use is how your zoning is approved and our BTR does not include approval of zoning so all of these industrial sites on Oobi probably have btrs but well no not necessarily they should oh okay so they're they're ination that that's correct and that's the first way that we've been able to get them by saying that they have a violation of their BTR and the more that we see the violation with BTR the more we learn about the other unpermitted activities on the property so what happens when our btrs are duplicate fee duplicate regulation um how so we we wouldn't charge two btrs um if you are a bondag property you don't need a BTR you fill out an exemption and there's no fee never had to fill out an exemption ever I mean why is it coming up now if you wish for us not to send agricultural businesses notice of BTR we certainly not send them notices or or not do it but agricultural businesses under thees and within our code are not necessarily the same thing as Bonafide egg and a former mayor even asked me this at a PCB meeting and I explained it's crazy the way the state does definitions the definition in btrs is not the same definition as what makes a property classified as Bonafide egg furthermore not the whole property may be bonafied egg a piece of the property and they may be more running more than one type of business on the property and so if somebody is feels that they're exempt for whatever reason veteran not for-profit senior citizen agricultural they can put the exemption form in so if we can just hit on a minute for running a business so I'm up with a good one all right so a parcel of whatever size has its Bonafide agricultural classification from Palm Beach County and um the wife breeds horses raises them trains them sells them that's a Bonafide agricultural business but the husband is a chiropractor and he has an office in Boon and that's where he does his fixing but he gets some of his business mail at the house it is is that considered BTR worthy I mean that I I don't think he would show up on sunbiz um if he's only just getting some random mail at his house the house would have to be registered as his business address I mean if we use example husband in this case is not a chiropractor he he does he's a carer he does small engine repair and he sometimes brings it home to the house to do business there and receives his mail there then should should they be exempt just because she has a Bonafide out on the property or should they have to pay BTR because he's technically running a business out of there as a homebased business as a homebased business yes so so then we can't do a blanket Bon a exemption because then we would be exempting him with our blanket exemption it has to be on an individual basis if you feel your Bonafide a can iuse allows you to be Exempted you'll have to come in and just sign the labor and make the case for your exemption Goa may I ask a council person a question sure do you think filling out the exemption was hard because you helped us figure it all out yeah no no it wasn't hard but I have agricultural business and I have my test and Balance company homebased business so I appli for actually have three businesses and two of them I get btrs for and the a I don't but I don't ask for an exemption which I should now knowing that but as a veteran there's no charge and I have to have that BTR where I'm doing business with some clients yeah they want to see that and you have to have the local one before you can get and I've told people that operate AGR tourism you know you don't have to put in for BTR but I would put in for the exemption because when people come in and complain that you're running a business I have a piece of paper here that says your AGR tourism and that way nobody could say another thing you know so I recommend that it's helpful but if somebody does it like I said we're not going to chase out after agricultural businesses we are not going to audit exemptions we're going to accept what people put in for exemptions I think one of the concerns is that we're sending it blanketly to all these businesses that don't have to pay for it and they're just paying for it because they don't know any better we not educating yeah educating on the exclusions in it and I think that is uh maybe should not fair to those types of business you like the veteran a check sheet we even knew about the the veteran thing you know I I would think I was the first one to apply for that what do you pay for your BTR better okay what is a BCR fee they range depending on what your business is but I would say as blanket generalization $100 where is our policy like Adida is saying an instruction sheet um you know where it's on the website and we also the form itself is instructional um we have a homebased business form we have a rental form and we have a general form and I believe that there is some information about the exemption there we have a summary of the different levels of exemptions I think I just looked at this the other day but we can do a better job of getting the news out about how the exemptions work and very happy to do it yeah but we're sending them to the website so but you're right it should be in the letter exemption should be one of the bullets yes it is but I do agree with you we should we should list the exemptions in the letter exemption you know please register yeah and you're exempt from the fees in the following scenario okay I think we encourage them to yeah submit it and get their yeah Y in my business a very important piece of paper you know in my test and Balance company I right I said that all the time people asking contractors to people so I'm surprised a lot of people AR being asked for more I would think so especially for the insurance is for equestrian businesses and things like that um we have a public comment on this item yes we do Cassie [Music] sui Cassie sui um I'm glad glad there's discussion so we're kind of having an understanding but I just made some notes about a bunch of the stuff that was going on um in relation to citations we need to get an understanding I liked what the mayor brought up um we need to make sure that our codes aren't being overly intrusive and we haven't even gone through a lot of our codes because we're still going through ordinances and ulc codes so just we need to just make sure we tread lightly on that one um because it is a financial burden you don't want you know somebody like I said I think I agree with Definitely Maybe warnings or something um it could be right for abuse camera program um I'd like to see I more on that cost what it looks like um I think it's a good idea also can be used for other things as well which helps to keep the community safer um the I wrot I wrote this down and I didn't finish the notes oh back to we'll do the BTR so I'm glad to see I just sent out a big um message about the exemptions for some of the people that were concerned with btrs uh one of the examples I had and I guess it becomes with understanding is if you have say a person uses it as their mailing address there there is no business the person flies out of the country or flies to other states that's where he do their business but because they do have an LLC business to run their job through and payments through but there is no business there is no office at the um house is that an exemption or is that a BTR that was an issue that came up in a concern um somebody got listed with a letter for a BTR and uh they don't have have a business at their house it's just their mailing address so Sun if they talk it's on sunis so I I referred them to the town yeah if they talk work with people if you have a business that's dormant you don't have to get a BTR If you have a business that's inactive but you still like to keep it for whatever reason that you don't have to get a BTR so all you have to do is give us a call and we can walk through stuff like mailing addresses or businesses that are really not active businesses okay and then the last thing because it was brought up and it intertwined code with it when we are doing these uh conditions of approval on businesses and in the conditions of approval it's clearly outlined compliance issues and what can be done and you're and the confusion is coming up um what can be done like it says if you do not follow the conditions approval you can have a work stop order a cease and assist it can go through code or whatever and we're being told that you can't do this but it's listed in the conditions of approval so if that's something that can't be done maybe the conditions of approval can be written for some of these businesses and I can't go into specifics but some of these businesses that we can have that extra layer because we're giving them a condition of approval I'm not sure that's a legal question and I know you guys are all familiar because I did email all the information to you and that's it by the way on that on that um just on that particular thing when we do stop work orders they don't always follow our rules so the citation might it might be good to have a citation for disregarding a stop work order um so um and additionally on conditions of approval um they have to come back through the whole process so any of these folks most of the folks on okachobee since we're having some open conversation on code the code is the answer to the code they have to come back through to the council and if there is some section of the code that they can come into compliance with they can ask ask for approval from the council the council is not under any obligation to say yes the council gets to say whatever it thinks when they come back so conditions of approval or not it's still gets to be a council decision you can stay if you do XYZ or you can't stay and then they end up in a situation where we're in a fine every day because it's an un permitted activity so I need a motion to extend the meeting 103 thought it was at 10 o' is it 10 o'clock or 10:30 I think it's 10:30 is it 10:30 okay then we got 20 246 minutes Craig how fast can you talk Craig how fast can you talk be okay with that too Robert that poor men been sitting here all night waiting to give this report we're gonna let him give his report I just want to say that Craig has been doing a fantastic job and he has been working his heart out on the budget and also he and Richard have driven all through this town and walked all through this town and have been trying to come up with an inventory of our issues if you will um they're going gang busters so they want to do it all right away but you know if everything's a priority nothing is so we wanted to kind of talk to y'all a little bit and see how you are thinking and we are thinking about how we want to allocate resources in the budget for maintenance next year you may have to sharpen your pencil is what we're telling a bigger pencil okay all right so as you see the PO works department you know we're excited to show that we're we're moving on to fiscal year 25 um the plans we have in place for the fiscal year is you know infrastructure and ensure the safety and then improve all the overall quality of the life for our residents as well so we go to the road maintenance is our next one here we went a little big on this one so you know next year we're looking at putting South a and collecting Canal on as our Paving project um as I've talked to a couple of you guys for me I would love for it to be a turnkey deal for us so we're not using all our resources of all our employees to go out there and spend months out of time instead we could have our employees doing the work in the town where we have a contract out we can have a contract to go to turn key on some of it we may have to go do in ourselves as we you know we'll assess that as we go into this year's budget um the objective and the conditions of the road roads were going around I'm checking every road as we went through the gas tax I drove every single road on the gas tax map went through it what roads need Rock what roads we have to improve on what roads are good you know what we what were actually is part of our town there's some roads we didn't know that were on there that was on the gas stack that were there before some that were had fences on them that was on previous year's gas STX maps that we had we're changing um we urge residents to you know report anything obviously our websites right there on the back there's our mine Richards Lexis as well our phone numbers to call us our emails everything for residents to reach out to us and let us know hey my road needs this my road a lot of times we can't get to certain roads there's only one of me driving around trying to look at everything that I can so the more that residents report to us the more that helps me identify certain areas that's out there if you go to that next slide yeah that's on our website that is yes I'm sorry we want to get people to start using that a little bit more you can get us for anything there it doesn't have to be for Public Works those come in and they get circulated to whoever they're supposed to go to upload a photo do that uh I believe you can [Music] yeah so we're hoping that you know somebody's watching this tonight and they're gonna see that we have this on what page is this screen on like if you go up to the top it's under you find res a screenshot right here yeah that's a screenshot and it's under residence so go ahead and click when you click residence right up on top this is what pop up yes okay okay so if residents click that that pops up okay and then it gets filtered to whatever Department correct yeah as it would come in we would distribute to who we're gonna gonna ask you how often is this looked at if it's like a ping like an email that you get automatically or is this something that somebody looks at once a week because I just don't want get people to get the idea that they're gonna get instant response like what do you think the turnaround on I mean as soon as it comes to me you can I mean there's a lot of here tonight you can ask them like the young lady sitting over here up front she called and I was there at 5:15 to speak to her about e Citrus know I'm trying to get to where I'm responding to Residents immediately okay so they they can get you know they're getting the hate 24 hours 24 hours from reporting is a reasonable that it would be you know as long as I can get to it stff yeah yeah okay so as you go to the next it's going to show our grading schedule for the that we're currently going as of right now and we're going into fiscal 25 FIS year 25 you see we are going to four days I know previous years it showed five we are our greater operator is four days a week we have four days guys so as we are reason we're going to four days when the original grading schedule was put up we were two roads that were paved in the whole town so now we are down to a lot less so we were able to break down the grading schedule to less as less days on it than it was before as you see it goes through all of them obviously on this is we'll be up on our website it shows all the holidays the makeup days everything on here that we'll be going through um Zone one which is the light color yellow the that will change as soon as um the roads are done this year so this schedule is only good until yes we will be making adjustments as we do this year's fiscal year once we do this Paving we'll come back and re justice as well thank you be much left to Zone one H won't be much left to Zone one that's a plus isn't it yeah so let me shoot through all these so these all you know every month is on here same thing you have in front of you yeah we can move to 437 all right so what you don't have is we did upload pictures all right this this would make Mr Larry Peter so happy that he would see three mowers in look at that Dre there I was so happy when I saw in this picture as well you do see the new Aspen is there as well with the Long Reach on it yeah and that's our kaboto that we bought a couple years back and I know Robert just loves seeing that very first one that's the good old Punisher it's still punctuating and it is going and it's still going strong what year is it the Punisher yeah um old is this guy looks a lot better than I I want to see that actually happening not just stage as right now though they are mowing and full group of throwing one after another yeah so they are going as all three of them are out right now this is their time they're hitting all the canal Banks going crazy it makes the town look so good yes it does yeah so obviously you can see we're mowing Canal Banks we're doing cutback so as we finish a canal Banks we'll do all the canal banks in the whole town then the next objective is doing cutbacks on roads we do have an enormous amount of overgrowth roads we try to assess the homeowner hey you know can you cut it back well once at one point it gets to a safety issue cars are hitting it people are calling in complaining that their cars are getting hit by trees so we do push them back try to push them back at least couple feet past if we can push him back further it's one of the things not to go to the edge of the road and then a week later it's back in the road again if we can push him back a little further we can't we're going to try well and what's good is on the West Bank you're cutting back and and maintaining your width yeah rather than letting it overgrow I don't have it on this one but I do have a an for the budget slide you I do have pictures of where our crew was out there and we went down B Road and there was a section of B Road you could not cross the Canal bank guys went down there and they cleared from B road all the way to North Road you can physically walk or ride a horse all the way from collecting Canal to North Road all the way down wow that was a dream of Maryland K so there are some there are some fences and Gates that are up that we will be pursuing that should not be there as property owners are putting gates up on Canal Banks they are Canal Banks does that sound famili sure guys they are our Canal Banks they don't have a right to put it on our Canal Banks to block our property well we've been these Gates have been in issue for DEC so that's the thing that we're looking into to further go out that we will St get those trails open Y what about when you come across during remnants of an old fence Sitting On the Canal bank we are going I I know exactly where you're going there's old post it there's several there these things that we continuously mow around that are just priorities throw them in the canal them out I gotta go get out then next efficient when rid of those so as right now obviously our priority is get this Paving plan done this year's Paving plan and once it's done and they can start rolling we can pull the cruise off and hey you're going to go down every canic you're going to pull all these out there's obstructions of random trees in the way that need to be some trees need to be removed some old um suction pipes we removed one when we did one cob pipe over on B- Road it was from one of the Farms that had been there it had been abandoned for 20 years we pulled it out removed it so we're in the process of actually going through removing things removing trees that are in the rideway that shouldn't be there blocking the RightWay as well it's nice to hear that you're being proactive on things thank you yeah because then we don't have to go back Ando everything all over again hey so while you're on this do you want to talk about FPL real quick we have the mayor signing a letter about all the damage they caused um they saw the letter in our agenda and they want to have call with us first thing tomorrow morning but we are also talking to them about their site triangles because a lot of the stuff up by the Swank property is also site triangle and a lot of the overgrowth y on driveways and stuff are FPL site triangles so so so we did get with fpnl and they are going through the town like for 161st we really got with them we had a on-site meeting with them they've actually got Asin coming down and they're cutting all the way underneath even the cable lines out time so they've started on 161st already they've started over they actually did right here on our property behind our dumpster they cut under the lines here they have a whole map of where they're going down KC Road G Square areas so we've actually pushing them to start cutting back for us well we had the fires too yeah well the fire on the 61st it's still igniting trees that's why they're finally get an as to cut all back that you drive down first look up at the Top Line some trees they touching you look at them they're dead where just it Wind Blows and it's burning the tree down that's where we had the big fire and we had to put out the fire for the fire department it took him a little long to get there W he actually went up in a bucket truck himself no in the excavator excavator yeah our excavator went down and we actually I went down there was bucket loading dirt on top of the fire to put it out before F or before even fpnl or fire department got there to put it out crazy so on our bank restoration obviously you've seen it where this was this picture right here is on collecting this is the part of the 2,000 ft that we had the contractor do for us the wi we are currently on eoad we did a big section on eoad that was about a th000 feet to the first property we're doing the exact same thing as this right here we're putting the rock down wrapping paper underneath the rock it's about a six foot chunk of wrapping paper underne of it rocks going down keep someone's fish and Turtles out of the bank and we're siding it that's why we had got the piggy back from odms to have them saw it so for odms that saw it it was cheaper for them to do it than have our employees go pick it up bring it and our employees to do it so saves US money yeah us being in the water yeah I mean we're already down by the water with the machines and everything trying to put the rocks in all right so we're going through all the canals we're doing fix and wash outs we're trying to fix a lot of wash outs because these big storms we're getting residents that are trying to pump out their properties they're creating wash outs where I've got with code we're stopping that as well for C code is going out and stopping them we've had one on I think it was D Ro that was pumping their Farm out starting to wash out the Canal bank I put a Hal to it I went over there and threw the pipe back over the fence because it was Wasing the whole Canal bank out I did it was literally completely washing the bank out and the guy says well why can't I do that he said well look you're costing thousands of dollars worth of damage if I didn't come down here you to wash the whole Road out before you know it and they still like him yeah said something earlier in the evening or somebody did that you're putting Rock on the uh the the bottom of the canals too no did you not on I misunderstood what you said then no this is on the bottom of the Canal bank this goes all the way down Canal so where you see the Rocks right now we lower the water so when we go do the canal reservation we're lowering the water so we can get the rock below where the normal water level will be so when the water comes up The Rock will actually be in the water so about how much more rock is below that water level we see probably about foot right there cuz that's that's pretty low right there the water level is so what I'm seeing is a reflection of the rock that's there yes but below that reflection is real Rock yes ma'am okay so yeah right there I think when I lowered it for the contract we're at about like 15 currently right now we're at 1625 when I looked earlier we right at 1525 so we're be a foot and a half higher than that okay all right so our catch faes these are our guys putting pipes in they're we we pulling pipes we're replacing pipes through the whole town as we see damage pipes I've got a chunk of pipe that we pulled off a 160 first the whole pipe on the road was literally that a piece that big that was it when we dug up there was no pipe there except a chunk of a piece of metal that size and it was just a cavity of water somehow staying there that was going on the road so as 16 first we're going down before we pave it I'm pulling the pipes and replacing them for that reason we have paid over top that pipe had to collapse now we we ripping up New Roads and that it's land owner's expense the pipe and you're that's actually one of the historical drainage lines that cross under our road that was there forever that that actually goes the drainage line that runs down 162 that comes across the back of the um property and it runs along what Mr Hunter cs's property line that goes out to what is it 160 at this extension of Road mhm okay so obviously this is our guys putting the pipe in right here looking at each other I don't know if they're playing handshakes and look but yes we are in the process of getting catch basins I'm running getting three quotes for catch basins I have to get with a couple of contractors to get where they will give us installation to have them put in they are what was it over 20,000 pounds per a box we don't have a machine to pick that up we'd have to rent a crane have a crane company come in and actually cran it in for us um when you say catch Bas and do you mean like the this the cement boxes like we have now yes there' be do Road grade how much engineering is gonna go from previous oh good so we don't have to pay the engineer to review the plans that were already engineered and then have the engineer come out to the site and review the engineering of the installation of the engineered box engineering plans from the actual a road B Road plans and that and they when the contractors looked down and the contractor says hey these are perfectly fine engineer plans terrif they P their catch Bas off of them yay we have a handful we do when you go back to that picture there what i p I'm sorry you had said that they are taking that pipe to A- Road 160th on the 161st pipe so it actually goes under 161st so yeah I pull it up here but but where this pipe only goes under the road this a 40 foot pipe underneath 160 first that historical drainage ditch runs all the way to 160 to a road the ditch okay so you're saying the western side ditch that's all overgrown that you're on un yeah on 162 comes down 162 then it runs there's multiple properties where there's historical ditches that run through these properties that are supposed to drain this front part that's so the way they drain is they're supposed to go like this yeah well now they're going this way that way that way because there was no actual World drainage back in the day it was here's my GE can here's yours dig to it and that's how they went so this ditch right here that this one's connecting to goes from 162nd runs long properties crosses 161st and goes to 160th so this is to keep the flow of water from 1602 going across the road okay all right so here's our cover repairs I don't know if you've seen them all through the town it's a beautiful job yep so this is 24th um all of them are identical with the rock around them it's a 20t length of rock coming off of it this one is a 72in pipe on on this is on the north side of the okobe all the rest of them are 96 coming across obviously see on the bottom left here will be bunny Lane Fon and 25th carry F Ro collecting canal and then B Road West or Westby Road I'm sorry so those are all the five that we we're projecting for next year to replace are those paid for by the town or by the town these are our ma these are town pipes that are crossing over the canals these are our town roads okay all these are right here so the main reason for fals in 25th before we get whether West B road is really a road is actually a bone of contention yeah so I'm not sure that's a Town Road but we can talk about that later yeah so the reason why we picked all these is sides of the banks have blown out um Carrie bunny I mean they're all just blown out there's nothing left of them some of them you can actually see where the top of the pipes are being pushed through I've actually had to crawl down and I'm looking through these pipes to look through them to check them um on W B there's a I'm pretty sure there's a hole in the pipe I have to keep adding dirt to the pipe to the edge of it that the dirt just keeps when water comes up theedge of the pipe is just blowing out so that's one of the reasons why we're replacing that one Rome in good that's a new C you're just extending that right we're replacing that so if you look at G West all that water comes down G West or G it would be G West comes all the way down comes along 25th yeah that little 24 in pipe is actually three to four feet higher than the actual height of the water you have all that water from all those properties like we were talking about for 43rd and 140 you've got 100 something Acres back there trying to go through a little pipe like this a whole canal North Road Canal and it goes around G West that is just an overflow that little C area so if you look at that overflow right for it to go back up to W North that North South Road all the water coming down North South Road would blow by that and you that water would never leave by the time that water tries to get into that 24inch pipe it would already flood the properties around it the pipes that were put in for drainage on the road we shot it that 24 inch pipe that's on the road is higher than the pipes that are going in for drainage put that in and when don't know can't answer that one you just said it was new when when was it that's before my time last couple years yeah but the whole reason they're higher is for water retention not just so it was put in by Like Larry Peters in the last couple of years is that what you're saying okay our biggest thing is water flow right yeah but you need take into consideration retention our retention is our gates right that's not a canal our how is it not a canal next to 25th that's just a small retention area it it is a canal it is 25 that section right there is a 30 foot wide Canal sitting there that is connected to G West that runs down for drain gets dry sometimes it's so shallow okay I need to interrupt you for a minute I need a motion to continue the meeting minutes come On's almost done second okay all in favor okay all right so this is our what we're replaceing Canal all our colar pipes all right so Street signage we are replacing every stop sign every we're projecting to have everything done by next year all our street signs we've put in about 60 to 70 stop signs so park of the whole town I'm hoping you've seen them at all major intersections the next is like Bev we went through and we replaced all the speed limits signs all the added speed limit signs down all up through Boulevard to every single letter Road how many horse trail signs you have waiting to go up that's one of the deals we're part of our next year's budget okay in the sign budget there's a lump sum there to put horse crossing signs in if it gets approved what so a sign gets up dated does it get a bigger whiter Banner are the letters prettier I mean Define for me it please an updated sign so you can go out and spell check no ma'am to go you go out and you look at reflectivity of the sign as you pull up to a stop sign if at night it is not reflective it's an illegal stop sign okay that Mak you can blow through it and a little Miss lawyer over there sees hey you blew through that stop sign and you little miss laer little miss lawy so you blew through that stop sign and I say I didn't see it you didn't see it it's not refle it didn't have they all had to be reflected you could go fight the citation what about stops do they the problem with stop bars are you take the problem with homeowners in the area of the stop bars they're going to complete so you put a whole bunch stop bars right here on frro now you get the home there all they here all night long no no no no I'm sorry you you're talking about the actual Stop Bar they're going in as well the stripe that when you pull up to the sign you're supposed to stop before that White Strip I call a Stop Bar they are stop bars I'm sorry I was going off your little rumble strips sorry because those I know B they've never been completely gone we just got the the piggyback contract for striping so that'll be in for this year coming up is there but does it weigh into this equation like you all people blow through because it's nonreflective if somebody doesn't stop short of the sign and the Stop Bar disappeared some yeah the stop has to be there as well it's part of the F dot to be there in it spot that's one of the things that we have to apply that was neglected over years so when you come for to make your budget numbers and presentation next week will you have a list of all the locations or a map of all the locations and the type of signs and markings that we're putting up because I want everybody to understand your estimate is $70,000 for this yeah there is a lot of signs to the hold down I mean I I couldn't give you every single location there every single road is extremely bad you can't give like a list I can give you a list of what sign on the map but on the list yes I can give you a list of how many that's yeah he's got I have a list of like what signs we need yeah I don't have the numbered amount of them because when you buy signs you always try to buy an extra four or five because joeo has ran over one you need them in stock to immediately replace right all right so our beautiful release in water all right so for next year we are looking into updating some of our our Telemetry and St systems they are way out of date um one of our problems that we have right now on our Pump Station I can't remotely control the pump that's a big problem because when I got to turn it on me or one of my staff members have to come and turn it on every time so we're going to put it up to where we can get a actual remote system put in to the ska so it will we can say hey right now I can talking about that for decades too every year where is the money every year we do a capital project for skada Gates like 10 to $25,000 is that not in this year we had $35,000 in there okay I remember it's there this year yeah spend it get it done now contract it not next we've been repairing the gates everything we've got them to where everyone open and close there um I did work on the West on the west gate at d Road it does work it does open and close so we are up and running all right we're looking into you know ventilation in the pump station one of the problems that we're having with it right now when the pump's running for so long it's overheating it gets too hot with this heat in Florida the actual the safety system in there shuts the pump down because room's getting too hot put in air condition okay no can I borrow yours at your house okay so that's one of the things we're you know we're putting in this we're looking to put ventilation in into that building itself to help out they have fans in there at least um no what they have is like an old school they've got little vent cuts on the side of the building it's not enough um we're actually want to I want to put in Heat fans like you would see like an an adct once it would get to a certain temperature the fan would kick on and just one on one side just air right on out the whole building sounds like a good start where's the money right where he was talking okay all right it sounds like it'll save the equipment so maybe it's a priority in there Sensi yeah the old system so obviously this is our our next pretty pretty brand new Aspen we've been going crazy with it mowing back cutting back it's it is a one heck of a machine it makes you feel proud when you see nice equipment yes I mean that that old rusty raggy stuff that we had before I'm glad it's gone the good thing with new equipment yeah doesn't break down as much exactly so this is our our Aspen um we are as you guys did tonight approved Al's Auto Repair he is our local we go to him he helps us out on everything that we we need we bring machines to him he puts us front in line of everyone else good so we bring a truck to him immediately he'll jump right on our truck and start helping us and working on it immediately so we're getting all our vehicles up and running so we're not sitting there with five trucks down in the yard everything's good to go I think every every vehicle we have is running AC works everything's running on them especially when you need AC at 101 degrees outside well isn't that Florida law any yeah so we're up to date all right we're looking at special projects um High Park is one of our you know more of our sensitive areas on this area that Center Pond um we do want to go into High Park area and take a down a lot of those Australian PS around there my biggest fear in there is we get a big enough storm it's going to be forever before those people get cleared out of there because those trees going to take go every which way it is we want to fix the drainage in there they come down there's a pipe crosses the road at one spot it's washing out we're going to fix that there's another one crosses the other side of the road we're going to put a new pipe in there as well and see if we can get down through that drainage historical drainage that's down there that's supposed to push all the way to F Ro that's going to be a another tackle to get to but we have spoke to the homeowner there the homeowner says that they would they said in person that they would give us a temporary easement so we if we had to go into their property to get to certain trees they would allow us to do it all right um so we're steadily going through all everything in here all the surrounding environments everything we're looking at everything that we can through the town I mean we're we're asking if there's ideas that you see let us know pers special projects mainly like what I'm focused on is getting the town caught back up to where it's at where it needs to be in general um our equestrian Trails right as of now we have one here one there one there one there so I would like to say hey as we're cing huh it's the ongoing word between Anita and I so many of the things that are finally coming have been decades in okay and this is why I suggested like with grber that we put Trails alongside of those roads so we can have some connectivity between the trails so that's great so what's that what they call it the end Vision you know all the connectivity we need it so I look at the canal Banks question Trails absolutely I that's that's my view of them there's a a dirt or is a grass Trail there should be an equestrian Trail well equestrian walking walking your dog riding yes anything they roll down it green way they call them huh yes the green way yes so I mean as of right now you can go down F or a Road Canal from Southern Boulevard to collecting Canal you can drive the whole thing all the way no problem huh motorized so B another set of signs we need to make sure yes so yes they we can I can pull some signs for that as well I know where to get them they're designed for them B road you can go from collecting all the way down to North except for some there are you know the fences we gates in the way and everything like that that we are working on we're trying to push back we're trying to make it where we can access that all the way down C Road same thing we've cleared hundreds of yards of tree debris on B Road a road Road C Road D Road's a different story that Canal was originally dig wider because that was the main access back in the day for logging when it so that Canal actually shifts all the way over to the property lines we had a couple of property owners that said hey you can come over and pull the Hol out of my property off that Canal bank so we're trying to get it where they'll sign a temporary easement try and get this guy to help help me with that one my Mr eement Man over here there's a couple actual the Farms that said they would do it allow us go in there and pull all the holes out of the Canal bank so we can actually get all that crazy overgrowth gone some of them they're just overgrown lots that we can't get to we'd have to reach over and pull them with the thing Digger on parts of D you've got banks that are missing or pipes that are missing so there's no connectivity with one one end of the uh West Bank to the other can there's a big horse farm section there that has a little the drainage Stitch that comes all the way up to the canal yeah I mean those are we don't have easement there at all so well e eth PL Place North I believe it is yeah I don't know top my head but there is one of the big horse farms that's right there they've got a little drainage just comes all the way up to the Canal bank itself with no pipe yeah yeah all right so our annual our annual work plan so we're looking at I've been steadily trying to go after the livestock waste for our transfer stations that we've had in town I've went after one already trying to I'm getting in to stop I went talked to the property owner we haven't seen me my S for code hasn't seen a truck go in yet in the last two weeks can't tell you when you know if I don't see them when I'm not there haven't had any complaints from this property yet in a little while um Solid Waste I am working with Coastal every other day I'm on the phone with them with Miss Julian she's working with me day in and day out with all the bul pickup I send her pictures of everything hey your claan truck needs to pick this up she'll be she'll put them on the schedule and they help help us out with any pickups as of like you saw the on a-road where we had all the manure we've had illegal dumping I take pictures I send it to her she sends out her trucks immediately you know on a Wednesday or Friday of that side of Boulevard they've been very good on a-road um somebody dumped there it looked like they they got rid of their kid because they had all of the kids toys on most of that most of that section there our guys picked up because why have Coastal pick it up if we can pick it up by hand small stuff like that we'll just throw it and we'll bring it to our dumster some of that was big stuff yeah some of the bigger dumb stuff that you do call Coastal for to come pick it up yeah um in that aspect tires we've went through three dumpsters full 30 yard dumpsters slat full of tires that we've removed illegal dumping pull them out of the canal Banks we haven't had a tire amnesty in a while no yeah but a lot of the ones been being dumped up on on North have like the little masking tape on it with the right writing like they're clearly coming from a shop from you know clearly it's not just somebody getting and it's one of the things tires try to put a camera but that we've noticed with that person that's doing it it's a different location all the way down North Road every single time they're not dumping in one location it would be on North South Road it would be on North Road a North Road B it's just everywhere we need those cameras yeah we do well that was one of the things that I used as an example when I was talking to Mr book I said we have a huge problem with this I said and then it costs us money to get rid of this and in a lot of lot of cases these are environmental hazards that are being dumped you know into our canals on our road sides and you know we've kind of got a reputation for being a Dumping Ground so but it it's nice that you can call Town Hall and get the uh permission to bring so many tires as in as an aspect um I don't mind a phone call and say hey I've got five six eight 10 Tires hey can we dump it here at your yard we don't mind what we were having problems with when I first took over was this random homeowner here this random homeowner there this one there just was coming in the yard just using the tire dumpster as their Free Will how do I not know that's just a tire company just hey I'm not paying the the waste Hall I just go dump it on your stuff one after another after another one here and there is one deal but to go 100 tires out of a property guess what you need to go take a solid waste do you have a separate dumpster for the tires yes sir y there's a tire dumpster just for that and they don't charge us right post school we get two tire dumpsters free a year many we're three so far this year but I mean that's like we've went through the I went down with the thingy  and and just drove down every single canal and then I sent one of my guys down thing we as well go down every Canal as the as the water got low they were driving and they're just pulling tires out W so hopefully we're on top so we're we're pretty much like we haven't seen tires in the canal in a while so we're staying on top of it don't say that too loud yeah so obviously you see like routine Canal cleaning that's with that we're pulling out little kitty toys we pulled out little freaking um Hot Wheels the other day I was hoping little Timmy was trying to Hot Wheel down the down the Canal bank you know at least that's what I would have done when I was like kid so our current fiscal year you know here's we've done a massive amount of tree removal everywhere Paving project all our Canal Banks roadways everywhere we're going we're cutting back in all the Exotic vegetation um even for us when we're doing the the paving projects and we're removing exotic vegetation and Roads we're putting the permits for it as well to cover our own B so any tree that we're removing we're putting in per for for all our roads um we're all are hedging mulching you know we're mulching back we're hedging back everything we can push it back as far as possible that we can to our our easement lines the problem saw that was in the p is hey we we'll Edge it back two feet and then as we our first came in Casey Rogue was like a tunnel you couldn't see either of it go look at it now we pushed all back the properties and you can see all the way down you now we can actually see the drainage problem on this road because there was so much overgrowth you can never see it before and we're seeing this on all of our roads that we're actually pushing back and we're trying to get actual drainage issues out um all our asphalt repairs our guys went down for a month doing the entire fixing potholes everywhere you got to do North North Road well North North Road is going to taking is that like a whole section's going to come out it's got to it's going to for that it's either we put it back in millings or we're going to have to we remove an entire section and have a Paving Company have to come in and hey hit this section they're gonna have to hit this section have to hit this section and the main brakes are every intersection and that's that that oim just can't hold up to the tires steadily just daing on it doing turns it just blows away so that's one of our projects a process that we're considering um replanting trees along some of these very wide open Trails like Gruber is very wide now that you've taken the Australians down you know so I'm thinking live oak or something that you know won't won't fall over easy in a so we are getting tree mitigation areas as we're talking speaking yeah um I just just love the the tree canopy you know the tree canopy is beautiful then it becomes a maintenance issue I got that problem right here on F Road right at Casey the oak trees go all the way over it looks beautiful once it rains what do you think the way to that rain do yeah it's weighing those trees down we had a truck hit one of those tree branches and I've already had code enforcement out there give them a citation they got to trim up their trees another issue we're having is down at North Road and F Road the trees are overgo into the road we actually had Mario out there today he got the homeowner the home owner is going to start tomorrow start clearing the trees back but but how do other communities uh have trees across their Road I mean they must trim off the little choots as they come out so that the tree keeps growing up and the the branches are higher there's not many there's not many left like that at all there's there's not many places a bunch of them just got knocked out and they they paid a fortune to stand those back up all those trees that went down that town paid a fortune to stand those all back up try to get them back to where they were yeah um I know what happened in Wellington they had big canopies at one time the hurricane came and knocked them down they said it's true they cleared them all out they says this is too much of liability they all fell they went and took every single one of them down because of the canopies they're falling in the roadway I just missed those Northern trees across the roads yeah I mean go to okobe count in OK they like that but those are 200 yearo oak trees that are their canopies are 40 feet in the air above the road no problem all right so we push down on as see I got that yeah so our staff um for our office staff inside we are steadily going through easements we're looking at easements we're going through everything that me Richard and Lexi can in the office that we can to ensure that hey we're not approaching on certain people before I send one of the mowers down a Canal bank or down a road way to do a cut back before they go down it I'm going to every single property looking for their easement that they do have an easement to us before we do a cut back to the ACT property line where it should be all right so and in reality we're negotiating contract with all the vendors we're building relationships with everybody right now um like I said with the SES I build relationship with that guy I call him up he answers immediately I'm calling down to John de I call a couple of those guys Boom the guy Richard that's in there the sales guy for the Contracting he answers because hey boom here you go we need this we need that we're building all the contracts I know got you Hour end so at the end is our po work contacts I went over that already it's for me Richard and Lexi in there um and that's our conclusion there any question good no thank you you guys are doing a great job thank you and not not always in the easiest of circumstances so it's greatly appreciated public comments since we have no public anymore awesome last item thank you so much for staying so late too sorry the very end last item and I will be very brief can I will that's okay I think it was important and you did a great job thank you so um please if you thank yes thank Miss Lexi she helped me a lot on this everyone does know help me a lot on this presentation to help me help put it together in the office good thank you thank you very much they're a good team yes they're a really good team every single one of them all 12 Richard Richard is he made Richard proud tonight Richard is a massive help in the office there Richard is actually pretty amazing in his own right with the historical stuff that he's found that you wouldn't even believe he told me that there were four pump stations here yeah there were four pump stations abandoned and people stole the pump out of it stole everything out of it I don't know yeah did you ever hear that no it's crazy building we put the building down because it was actually falling over yeah so we removed the building and concrete structure that was I belong to the uh leang we thought that as well we thought it was their Pump Station to pump into the property when Richard had got into research and he had found that it was actually an old well pump station at one time how about so you've noticed that our agenda us have been very full um we're trying to keep up with the requests from Council um we are pretty close to doing what we have projected on these coming events and also we've been pretty flexible getting some stuff quickly back on you know even though we moved a couple things tonight um I guess what I'm hoping and we don't need to do it tonight but what I'm hoping is that you can all take a look at these enormous agendas and see if there's something that you want to push to the future or something that you think isn't in the current coming events that you need to see sooner um there will be more contracts that come through um I think what we need to consider doing is just putting a lot like a lot more things on consent like we did tonight I mean we had like you know 16 items on consent tonight and I think that that's really hugely important for us to have the ability to look look them over more quickly get through them more quickly for us to take the time as the representatives of the people to vet them and ask any questions that we have so that we can have more things on consent and as needed pull the one or two things that we feel aren't sufficiently but I think that you know really putting a lot more of this stuff on consent is is the way to go to try to shorten this a little bit well that makes us happy to do it um I don't know if you noticed the quality of our agenda has greatly increased oh um I I am amazed that how thick some of these are and that you got them turned around that quick the quality of November 5th fin this page 452 uhhuh second reading agor and deleted because the first reading's in December and the second reading oh we try to catch those we try to catch those but we we have we have some um it's got discussion s so that's the other thing that that we're doing is we're doing a discussion before we do first reading like tonight we discussed code we didn't bring you any actual ordinances or anything even though we do have some dra s because we didn't want to go ahead and you know go too far down the path without getting direction so we're trying that formula so consent will work great um and um please any comments questions or anything that you want to see on let's do it we're also starting back up our committees next week we have um ulc and fact next week you all have the first of the budget workshops next week we have PCB on the 29th which is the hotel um and agrotourism gets the package of from the last group to reconsider and start to add to um the last week of August um At Your Service please take a look and let see if there's anything that you want to do one of the things that we want to do and I don't want to take it away from Valerie but when we come back with special events we want to talk about how we might go ahead and do a little bit more with government week in October um with open houses with residents with some interaction with staff and residents staff and counsel and um we haven't actually come up with the whole plan but we want to really celebrate my government week um you know at every level if we can so I am done is that your report as that is that is my report as well and your number okay yes anything to say no ma'am thank you anything you all talk are you all talked out or you have yes no I don't have a report but I do um have comments on under um council member melia's comments okay when I get to her I will have you speak okay um Miss danowski closing comments if you keep them really brief we can get out of here by awesome um I don't know if I misheard you in the beginning of the night did you say I as the mayor I asked staff to put this page on our website or I tasked staff to put this on the website into putting some of these resources on the website there we go okay you know and again only have to come back all of us but like when I came from that mayoros it was like easily and look like we were right well I mean I bring this up just so you know there's no accusal of oh my God the mayor is doing this by herself and that by yourself and this by yourself you know because we all said that everything's got to come back before us so just clarifying fabulous meeting tonight everybody absolutely fabulous thank you I'm done good comments okay uh Phyllis sent in an email today and asked um that I read it into the record uh so here we go I have the right as a council member to be heard although time and location does not allow me to attend I am hoping my fellow Council members will allow my comment to be read aloud at the end of the meeting Council comment from council member manilia August 6 TC meeting as a resident I respect and completely agree with fellow residents concerns regarding commercial Ventures invading our small town as a resident I also appreciate the need for some business ventures being allowed within our town in order to augment our malnourished tax base and provide relief to Residents from carrying that load on their own as a resident I agree that we must be diligent about what types of Ventures we allow in this town as well as where we allow these businesses as a resident I feel like most other residents that the Southern Boulevard Corridor is the most logical and least impactful area to all residents for these businesses to be placed as a resident I absolutely believe that a recreational business with an abundance of green space is a welcome alternative to the choice choices we made in the past ugly buildings huge parking lots unwelcome traffic and unfulfilled Landscapes like were allowed on Southern NB as a council member I feel that a recreational business is a viable option and the location is of minimal impact to the majority of the town as a whole and could have positive impact on our financial future as a realtor I can also share with you that I have not listed a property for anything other than agriculture or residential use nor have to date been approached by any other agricultural venture equin or otherwise regarding development of a property directly off Southern Boulevard but I have been approached B many spec speculators and developers wanting to know how many multif family units they can put in lahache groves I tell them the codes are in municode.com and refer them to town hall you all know my position to protect the town or I wouldn't have received the amount of votes I did so it won't take long for big box stores and or strip all developers to smell blood in the water with all the residential development to our West and North as a council member I think we need to circle the wagons reinforce Our Town borders and fortify Our Land Development maps and face big commercial encroachment as a unified force stop the infighting stop the useless reactionary blame game over the past events and get our blank together for the entire town we have to get ahead of the situation and stop playing whack-a-mole on a caseby case scenario as we've been doing in the past and a little aail Robert yes thank you for uh letting me participate last month and scheduled time out of town because last year we didn't have meetings in July so apologize for Miss but very thankful for the opportunity to participate um good meeting um I'm excited about the RV thing when I first read it I was like this quite what we discussed but a lot of it madees sense looking forward to doing something and hopefully we'll get participation and we're never going to get it perfect the first time anything or even the second time but at least moving forward and doing our best is what we're doing so appreciate thank you march yes um I was uh thankful for the BTR exemption explanation uh there's been a lot of chatter about that uh around the public um how did the back to school go very slow but the school has assured us that they will use and that they need whatever we have everything we gave them last year was used right okay when did we decide to do that again what it was in the resolution it was in the resolution of events for I thought we weren't G yeah I'd like look at doing something I said before different next year because I've actually been told by the principal of the school that they don't need the backpack stuff we are BR so yeah that those are things they don't needed that sit there unused and so yeah they get a fart load of I would really like to explore I'm certainly all about helping the community but I would like to look at a different a different way that we might be able to help so the good news is is that we adopted for the last two years our special events by res solution right let's have the conversation about what our our special events should be because we budget for them so perfect yeah have that conversation okay sorry Mar I the other the other thing uh that I'd like to ask is for a consensus on the 35 foot uh nvg D whatever that is um 10 foot grade uh at grade um that had voted on I thought you know that that was what we wanted nothing higher than 35 ft so do we have consensus that that is what we meant and we're not going to allow a four five story Hotel I thought that that 35 foot was just for the storage unit period not a not a ulc change not a rule change not a nothing talk about nowhere in the town so the ulc hasn't been changed it was just an exception you made for the for the storage unit like you said now the hotel is asking for another exception that's that's correct we redefined the um I think we took the navd out and said it was the um site elevation was the reference point from the top of the sand pile I'm sorry from the bottom s well from the base floor I think oh it was parking lot or sidewalk that was what we were changing because 10 nbg is the bottom of our C right bottom of our C are at 10 and so if you reference 35 ft that then it's typically 20 feet maybe like the road elevation but like base elevation I'm building a house the engineer is making the floor finished floor at 20 so maybe that's where the 3510 came from so if you go 10 plus 35 you're only 25 but we clarified that to to be the site because some SES maybe a foot higher or lower and the goal was when you're driving down the road you house is next door you're you know you're not looking up at something but the 25 ft I thought was still in there I where did the 35 come from then that U keeps being referenced as the the tallest height is but that was referenced NAB which is actually elevation 10 so that actually made it 25 above essentially the road grade which is typically 20 n so did we change the definition to finished floor elevation and not changed 35 to 25 did we screw up in that or I think we didn't understand what NBD ISC 2012 okay remember talking about the definition it didn't make sense when we went through that process bottom of the F Well with this hotel coming up is there any way that we can U uh do anything to rectify this situation so that it reflects what we really want going approve it yeah we tell them what we want it doesn't matter it says they're just making applications yeah well but but we had said at that meeting that this would not set precedence correct oh I'm right there right yeah I we did not change our code it still says 35 feet and I believe that that was um it still says 10 na no it does not say that it says and um hold on a second of course now I've lost it since I had it originally in section 25-45 no buildings or structure or part thereof shall be erected or maintained to a height exceeding 35 ft so what is the storage space 35t the storage space is actually 43 ft the storage facility is actually 43 ft and it's based on the measurement that you're talking about which is 7 + 35 and I believe that it was particular to just that application so our code is still 35 and I do know that even though we really should not be talking about the application I know that the applicant has a very clear understanding that our height limitation is 35 okay and 35 by the way is normal for welcome residential structures as well you don't really get to three stories at 35t because 35t usually have to do pitch the roof so if you want to have a twostory house that's got a pitch roof you're going to be pretty darn to from all well on Marella Boulevard there's a big blue building that looks like it's more than 35 ft it's brand new it's just going in the bar dominium I believe she's speaking about yeah needs to be checked okay that's all by the way there are exceptions to the height limitation but there are things like architectural typee stuff spires domes belfries chimneys Stacks what about residential 35 35 I just want Point does it still say that or any of that no usually from gra well I know but it it did say 10 I remember that that was confusing and we had a discussion on that I thought that we work we did we did have a discussion and I think it was specifically to that application well that's what I understood too but it are they coming forward because because anybody can apply for anything at any time that they want to that's right they just throw it at the wall and see what sticks um so to continue on with that point and with the discussion about the homelessness bill that's coming up that in October the October 1 deadline um another thing that they had at the mayor's Symposium is after we met they had an like a whole conference room down at the convention center of resources so I um ran through the tables and just grabbed one of everything and brought a big bag back to Jeff and gave them the big bag full of resources and said here's a whole bunch of resources this thing's coming up in October we have we we need to do something to be proactive about this so could you guys look through this and put something together um that we can use as a resource for people to try to um and it was one one of the things that I brought up also at the Symposium is you know it's great to do something on this end once people have become homeless but unless you do something on this end before they become homeless you've just got a vicious circle and you're never really getting any traction you got to you got to plug the hole from both ends otherwise you're not getting any traction um and so um hopefully they'll be able to bring something forward to us of of what resources we can offer in our town through all of those resources that I provided um that were being provided by um pal Beach County and uh other than that I think I'm I'm thrilled that we finally got something hammered out on the RV ordinance I hope that we can get some other things hammered out I'd really like to see um the HR manual uh uh put to bed I was a little bit disheartened because uh about I would say somewhere between one and two months after I was elected I was given the HR manual and I was told that everybody on Council had had an opportunity to look at it to meet with staff and legal counsel about it um and that all the comments of all the other council members were in and that I was the last one to go at it um that you know I was told that one council member said they didn't care to look at it um several the other anyhow regardless of what I was told anyhow I really thought that you know I was the last set of I was going to look at it I made my 10 or 15 or so revisions that I thought needed to be made and that would be able to hammer that out and get it out there um and it uh didn't happen um so I sure would like to see that fin when we have our attorney back in for our next meeting so I guess I'm making a request that the invitation to council to review this document as it exists right now in this moment be extended once again um and that before our next meeting when Mr tors is going to be here we are able to all spend sometime reviewing it with the changes that are made in it and get those final comments and so we can get get that in place um what with this HR document was I gave my input but I wasn't privy to the conversation of the other members you know I I felt like I was swimming in an ocean and getting nowhere um because I didn't know what the rest of you guys uh had discussion about you know it would it was kind of foreign that you you had a private meeting like like we used to have and and then we'd come back together as a group and V everything so do you want to meet once more once more time one more time as this group of five to go through the manual because that's kind of where I was at too we put this thing to bed in August of 2022 and then I received an email on July 5th that says all right we're ready we're going to do it legals reviewed this six or seven times what why how and this was before we sat and met with the firm so there was also a list of things where you know there was grammatical and structural changes but staff recommends this was changed that was changed and a lot has Chang changed since 2022 so I Marge I totally understand what you're saying by like you kind of feel a drift yeah you know and again who wants to go over this thing one more time but I think it might be prudent but that's up to you you guys you know we've got to get it set somewhat so that we know that this is what we need so do we need to have a workshop just on the HR manual I really would regret if we did that and I'm just going to make my comments and do whatever is directed by the council we spent four workshops that were multiple hours going through it Page by page it was uncomprehensible to read the document that was edited and over edited by our attorneys we asked them to give us a clean document they said no make your changes and then we'll give you a clean document we went through 60 areas that Council had changes on in specific areas we went back and forth with our labor attorneys and it took quite a lot of time to get the turnaround of the items back but we tracked all 60 changes to make sure we could follow that every word that Council said to do was done we also found that our attorneys had not looked at our Charter in number of places and had conflicting wording and recommended conflicting wording to the council with respect to um and I saw some comments com in from someone about budget limits the charter has budget limits in it the the charter has legal budget levels of control and the charter says how we're supposed to adopt a number of things relative to um our budget and employees and we fixed that language that was I'm just giving you an example we didn't change any of the intent on anybody's PTO we left the PTO exactly as was decided by the group um we did not change any of the benefits there were two things we wanted to revisit and the reason we wanted to revisit them is because jury duty is a civic duty and we are a local government and I know that there is some thought that if you can't avoid doing the jury duty why should you be penalized by not getting paid at work it's not like you would be making money for doing it you would end up using PTO days to do it so we wanted to come back and see if there was a way that we could have um a reasonable number of days for jury duty not you know like a a four Monon trial or anything but again happily not have any paid time for jury duty and the other thing we wanted to revisit was bereavement because we only had I think two days in there and we wanted to go up to five days and the reason we wanted to go up to five days is because one if you're traveling out of state you can't do it in two two if you are the person that has to make the arrangements for the deceased Andor handle you know a number of those things you can't do that in two days either you know um so we kind of thought that you know 5 days was reasonable and we had language that said up to five days but other than those two things we didn't really want to change anything you changed a rehire policy on former employees we did and the reason why we did is because it said and we went through that and noted that as a change that was noted as a change in the list of changes if you went through the list of changes that we sent out the medical versus the medical saying whether somebody is pregnant or otherwise we didn't feel comfortable with being in there and I think we explained that in the summary of changes but if it wasn't explained well enough if you Rose that if you brought the question up I'm I'm answering it now we didn't feel comfortable with the medical with the med medical being the issue or the pregnancy being the issue but again another item that we just tried to disclose we also disclosed um the 29 hours for um parttime versus the 25 hours and the reason is because the federal law for AA is an average of 29 hours you can't go past that so that's why we changed that um I mean the 11 things that we I'm saying it's 11 if it's 15 if it's 10 don't remember what they were the other thing that we changed and this came from Individual meetings with Council was the definition of family and the reason why we changed the definition of family is because it was different in three places in the manual and in one place in the manual it used the definition from um f Federal Medical Leave Act but we're not subject to Fed Federal Medical Leave Act and it was broader than we all felt comfortable using so it was suggested to use immediate family and so we changed wherever it said family to immediate family and everybody's immediate family is different if your grandmother raised you she's your immediate family and you know no if somebody's lying about that well you got a problem with the employee a media family is a good enough definition the other thing we changed with regard to family was several Council people and we are in a public meeting so I don't feel like I'm breaking Sunshine Law to tell you suggested they didn't have a a problem with us hiring family members as long as those family members were not being supervised by the same person for instance we lost an opportunity on two equipment operators because they were brothers but they were both Aces to you know get on the equipment I'm not saying that anybody wants to rush out and create an uncomfortable situation but we said in C certain circumstances we might be willing to hire family members that those were the kind of changes that we made and so some of them were changes because we wanted to make you understand and share with the council that they were not the best language for us to use I.E only medical or pregnant people and then the other one that we changed because of that same thing we put the definition of substantive in and substantive means something more than minor you know we put in a sentence that says substantive means something more than minor if you want to take it out we can take it out but we just wanted to be able to be really clear perhaps to each of us the changes that were made the chronology of changes that were made and I think somehow if you can Marge would like there to be a notation of who made who made that recommendation whether it was me or Robert or Laura whoever it was there or phis whoever it was that made that recommendation if you have that record I don't know if you well if something came into me an email I have to believe it's a public record so anything that was sent to me in public record may I share so be again to avoid a sunshine issue I do not recommend that you send Communications received from one council member to another council member um but I can say without a name these are the suggestions I got from a council member from a council member these are the suggestions I got from staff one of the things you may recall that when you're in discussions with with folks we reviewing paragraphs um people notice oh there is a typo here or this could be phrased differently right so it you would say some I mean I can remember there were some things were there were some things that I said were were what you guys said to me was another council member no well and what I'm saying is but there were times where I can recall Glen going oh okay and then he went and he wrote some other things and it might have been triggered by something that was going on that is what Glen it was really coming from Glenn and and all of us saying they were typographical things substantive things um Glenn made one gigantic substantive change I think the the manager just went over the substantive changes um but looking for every type of and I'll tell you if you looked at the original document that came out of August of 22 oh my gosh it was just all over the place and the you had so much you had that situation where everybody identified this and this and this came from this one and it was like okay let me it's not in English anymore all right let me change my request can I change can I alter my request my request is that you get the document as it stands now with the changes that were made somehow notated so that they are clearly understandable to council regardless of who made them with the changes that were made clearly notated that you get them to councel immediately medely they should be ready in a form to get to us so that we have how many weeks between now and our next meeting to review them individually to come in and meet if we feel the need to and ask questions so that it can be on the next agenda hopefully on the consent agenda I am very happy to serve this Council in any way I for everybody are those the the things that you sent to me in red yes we prepared a document for March that is ready at the click of a button where we showed where the wording changes were and I would be remiss if I didn't share with you that Glenn took two paragraphs that were essentially duplicates of each other and condensed it down to like two or three sentences I mean that's the kind of stuff that Jeff is talking about as all of us were you know going through the document going through things with those of you who came and met with us we were like okay not substantive but let's get this to read better clearer next and in some cases as we are always asked with at least a few less words right there is one thing that's not in there that was brought up then and that that if you would like we will put in there now in this next round that we send out and that is the ability to build a voluntary leave pool for people who need a donation of leave time that is not in there but it has been brought up in the original reviews and a council person brought it up in this review but it is not in there so if I have extra leave time and Craig gets sick and he's at a leave time or we just had an employee who ran out a PTO time and had a sick family and resigned if we needed to donate we could okay that's what that policy is and if you'd like us to put that in yeah we can put that in the county has that policy we'll just use the county words okay so then it will be on our NE next consent agenda and hopefully everybody will get to ask any questions they have between now and then and if we have to pull up from consent and have a discussion because there are more substantive or significant changes between now and then otherwise we'll consider that yes speed up in addition I do want to say that it is not typical to put all of the forms in the HR manual but I have a very formal evaluation system for all of our employees including probationary which we use very well and we also have forms for staff and for managers and I am happy to share them with you perhaps um if you would like but those things are subject to change right but anend for now but I'm happy to share them with you um and I work together um with others and had the attorneys to re review them when I started using them I think I showed them to you when I think you were mayor at the time but I'm not quite sure but it's multi-dimensional and there's one for staff and one for managers yes you did I did recall yep I still have and I have a self- review of every manager and we're up for annual reviews again so put attend just so we can all take a look at y okay can I make a can I get a motion to adjourn toj thank you I just wanted to tell you everything I miss we missed one extension I know good thing sorry