e e e e e you know what I mean we're live with an E Empire empire we found a picture on our SW wondering where it was I mean uh um Coleman Roxy Coleman was asking where is Ellie yeah yeah ell Le should be in our lobby hang her up look at you I was for sure that you would beat me to to that Marge what's that Ellie yeah yeah that was a good picture of her yeah Mr Austin's in the audience do you want to make the announc frine you guys ready we are the Town Council workshop for April 16th will now come to order and I have a uh we'll actually we'll stand the Pledge of Allegiance first IES stand indivisible for all and if we could just all have a moment of silence to reflect and contemplate we're going to say this evening and how we're going to help the community okay if I can have a roll call please council member danowski here council member manilia presid council member Shore here vice mayor Herzog here mayor Kane Pres Town manager ramilia here Town attorney tvia here Public Works director Gant present okay um before we do additions deletions and modifications one I guess we're going to call it a modification the um this says that there's a community open discussion meeting from 6:00 to 6:30 prior to this workshop and that is not accurate um that's a scribers error that's on the agenda here so there will be an opportunity for public comment before each item um on the agenda but there isn't a community meeting for the first half hour as it says here we just are going to go right into the workshop does any yes are we still gonna have the community input in the beginning of the first Tuesday of the month we are in our regular meetings yes the this agenda is like the rest of our agendas and it starts with comments from the public right public comment yes will allow open public comment but not the community six half hour portion of the meeting is what I was told by the attorney before we started that that was and the project coordinated that that was a scrier error so that's why I'm making that announcement um are there any additions deletions or modifications other than that motion approve the agenda like Su we like suggest leading out five sorry we'd like to suggest meet leading item five which is the resolution regarding the scholarship committee there continues to be a conflict matter that the attorney brought up to us that still needs to be resolved we can discuss it when we get there it's a council's pleasure does anybody want to make a motion to delete that item or do we want to discuss I'll make motion to delete do I have a second second okay all in favor I I opposed I opposed passes three to two okay so that's going to be back at the next meeting so modify my motion to accept the agenda with the deletion of item five and correction the scribers eror about the uh 6 to 630 Community okay discussion second all in favor I opposed passes 5 Z okay uh now we'll have public comment on not okay this is a time for you to comment on any non agenda items do we have any public comments on non-agenda items Mr Austin okay Austin 746 hide Park Road I mentioned this comment before and I was looking up this I can have the comment now not related to workshops not for agenda items that's correct not for agenda items kind of weird because that's what the 6 to 630 portion is but all right while I'm talking about the code violations because we have the apartment building down the street which you can drive down hide Park in the evening and see all the apartments lit up and all the cars parked out in front of the apartment building properties had multiple code violations for many things and when I was reading it tonight the only Violet find they have is $732 and $236 I mean the guy's making thousands of dollars a month on his illegal apartments and Trailer Park why should he care about these two little fines and if you go to co Florida code we should be finding him at least six1 16209 ad administrative fees $250 per day first violation $500 per day for reat violations you get the county involved you can charge them $5,000 a day and uh somebody told me you have 20 years and the fines go away from what I've read now it's you have 20 years to foreclose in the property this person is definitely somebody who should be up foro foreclosure because everybody else in the street who's complained about him is telling the truth he brings in dump truck loads of dirt at night they move the dirt around they have everything they locked the property down so you can't go on it it's a huge illegal violation and not and not just his property he drive down collecting Canal you have people living in the RVs that have been there for years you have the little property down there with the horse uh trainer in front if they have two pro two behind the fence that they live in year round they have a third on the property not even two acres away you got the junkyard at C road that has office trailers on there and travel trailers on it you have the one over here near fome road that has two that look like they're totally junk trailers right up near collecting Canal that's been there for months and months and I don't even see them listed on the code violation so I don't know what we're doing for code violation in this town I know I read some things where I see it the guys probably are overwork they have a lot of stuff to go through but you know these RV violations are ridiculous and I've read the RV code and these people are very much not in line with our own RV code so just something to think about thank you thank you any more comments Missi did you have a specific item number or no no yes sui um sorry IOP I had a couple of things I wanted to bring up about our town website um our Charter is a binding document and when you all take o you take o to uphold our Charter when I was looking on our website it would be nice to see under the government section the first thing instead of town code should be Town Charter that we can click on it at least go to the Charter instead of trying to search through 12 different pages to try to find it so I want to bring that up the other thing I'd like to see on the agenda it was brought Up in Council comments at the last meeting by Laura our HR manual um I'd like to see that discussed it was discussed and reviewed and then kind of Forgotten we need to have Direction by our employees for our employees maybe in there do some performance evaluations for our employees but I do definitely think it needs to be brought back and discussed prior to us going to the budget we need to have an outline and a framework for our employees so I'd like to see that on the agenda and I have this prepared can I give copies this is just a public records act it gives some bullet points on public records it also gives the government in the sunshine manual where you can go to online and learn all about public records and it suggests that every employee at least go there to learn the policy and I did copy it and put it together for you if I can turn it in you need a motion to rece to rece second [Music] five and then use the lawyer and the town manager and anybody else want um and that's it thank you thank you uhhuh thank you okay being as there's no presentations or consent agenda we're moving on to regular agenda item number one discussion of the fiscal year 2024 CI Capital Improvement project and roadway Improvement program this will be uh discussed by Mr Gant and Mr CTS um well we usually have the staff present the orders of Roberts rules is Staff presents and then you have public comment and then you have a motion and a second and then you have Council debate and then you have a vote that's Robert's Rules I don't know if we want to do it differently is there some other way to do it I have a question yes wouldn't we debate prior to voting on it be able to discuss it yes that's what I just said Robert's Rules is we introduce the item staff presents it you accept public comment you have a motion in a second then you have Council debate then you have a vote well that was my question we're doing a motion and then we have Council correct before we vote on it yeah just a point of clarification was before you tonight our changes proposed changes for discussion to the town's code with regard to rules regarding meetings and additionally resolutions implementing um various procedures for those meetings at Council meetings and at board and committee meetings the council's rules do not include following Robert's rulle rules that would be a change these rules include that the mayor presiding officer in consultation with the town attorney shall make rulings on parliamentary procedure at least three votes members of the Town Council are required to overrule the mayor presiding officer on rulings a parliamentary procedure so there's not really it has not been Robert's Rules so that is an item that you may wish to discuss or that I certainly imagine you will discuss when we get to this item later on and the way that the council has been operating is with public comment before the item presentation and then you have Council discussion and then um you know sometimes additional comment just saying how it previously slight modification slight modification just wanted to point out we can make it official later on in the agenda well I think we should operate how we have been operating and then we can decide later on whether we're going to strictly follow Robert's Rules or whether we're going to stay with the modified so then we can open for public comment on this first item which is the capital Improvement project if that's okay with everyone yeah no one's opposed to that okay do we have any comments on this yes mayor uh Mr nango my name isango auth representative for candle Farm owner of the property in 1180a Road and the reason why I'm here is because I would like to support and mention that we are in favor on putting back a road as one of the level one roads back into the same priority roads on the town as well as the section of collecting can all that is the only part missing to complete the whole collecting canal and I have to say that everybody that lives in Lo aachi knows that all the level one roads the letter name roads are paved except for that section on any row and after spending through the summer and the winter there is some maintenance done during the winter time but during the summer it's basically a minimal so we always struggle with the holes and damage to vehicles that happen because of the road not like properly care so that's Thank You Vince Burkhart sir you have to get up and fill out a phone if you want to speak I'm sorry she's tell me you got you got to fill out a card and give it to the clerk cards are out there right here how come I I asked for the podium to be put over there and it keeps getting moved back hi my name is v00 and want to thank you ladies and gentlemen for inviting us to to speak tonight and uh obviously I'm a huge proponent of ping South a Road and West collecting Canal completing the level one roads I wrote letters to all of the property owners there 16 Property Owners on a road and seven on collecting now on that L section that we're talking about uh I started writing letters to all of the property under last September and I pretty much uh rounded all of them up and I have been able to speak to 75 80% of them and all of us are very much favor of a road and getting it back on the schedule as quickly and as soon as possible uh I've had several meetings with staff and been very helpful started meeting Peters and he retired now now Jeff they extremely helpful FR has been very helpful I've talked to everyone about easements uh I spent a lot of time uh coring everyone and iing to spend a lot more time in helping staff put the easements together just as quickly as possible and I think that that we do that pretty quickly so uh hopefully we will soon be back on the schedule quickly and we'll see our it I think' been waiting we've been waiting 38 years so we are certainly ready to see it happen please go forward thank you thank you can we pause for just a moment can we please move the podium back you don't have to Mr burkart no no no it's just that the people who are viewing from home are seeing just the hind end of the person who's speaking so this way they can see more than that and that it was a request that we're trying we're trying yes your hinded was just viewed by I'm sorry sir I did ask that it be mov before the meeting okay do we have any do we have any more comments yes Miss sui Cuchi um I guess things are changed now I'd like to see that the presentation goes first and then the public comment so we can hear what's presented I think that works better for the at least for me in the audience but I'm going to wing it um there was supposed to be somebody here to do a presentation I guess they didn't realize the time um I did have uh thank you Mr glant very nice on all your paperwork and your reports I do like reading a lot of reports um but I did have have an issue with um the donation and when it originally came up is it a donation or is it a pay to playay type thing that we pay you extra money to get our our area paved and I had brought up the fact that we have a Paving plan and we have segments on that Paving plan and if we move sections up because a donation comes in um for the town and we apply to that Paving plan which benefits the person that's donating to me that's not a donation that's something else and we all know what it is so I don't need to say it I'm concerned that that donation and I'm doing some research right now is possibly from the last um Public Works director not Mr Galant that may have worked some type of deal to modify the fines for Tree mitigations on this property that's making the donation I don't know cuz haven't um got all the public records requests in um but my biggest concern is the way it's wed in here that contingent nature of a donation it's recommended that the paving of BR Road and North Road and B to C not commence until or unless those donated funds are assured um please please please donations are great to go under our Capital fund but please do not put them contingent on something that's going to benefit the donate donor because it just goes it screams something else and people that have money get moved to the top of the list or get benefits where other people don't so please please donations are great put it in the general fund follow the plan don't move a road up just because somebody's sending money in and I I can't reiterate that enough thank you thank you anybody else Mr hufty Mr hufty did you want to speak on this item okay you're all that evening and thank join in your meeting first time I've been in the building I'm kind of surprised at that because I've been in down for a few years over the years um at one time I owned the property on Ro then Bob still silver they would Carriage people they had Carriage city place for a few years and then I got an opportunity to purchase the place on High Park Road at Bill Phillips on I know him for quite a while but then I didn't see it for a few years and I just recently sold that place to some people that I'm sure a lot of I think it was a step up when they it seem to to be a real good part and I just like lot to actually it was a a mixture of the girl and the is really speaks to me because I'm I'm not I'm not really a country boy but I'm I graduated from the a school at the University of Florida and I have a lot ofal interests now a good friend of mine that have property Le plus f Road from the property that I think you all are familiar with that there there's a bunch of bul there you can't drive they not see that b and I spent some time there with r i consider so so then my good friend that had that property Leed right across f Road from them of sale so so he got the opportunity some more C Road and anyway that intersection there real nice piece of properties so uh I don't know IDE you usually have just three minutes to speak so if you're speaking to the item of the roads I assume a road no not a road any roads yes good history yes yes sir I'm sorry yes you are limited to three minutes but please we'll let you continue as a courtesy but you're here to speak about roads I just want to confirm yes you're here to speak about the roads okay went to money SP and had b b [Music] be that base [Music] then I got some pictures which I'm sure not any particular interest anybody but I just wanted to bring them shows equipment brought out there like old Tri and stuff like that on this occasion Frid and well I'm sorry that item is not on our agenda and that's that's not what we're taking comments on now so I really can't have staff speak to that perhaps if you'd like to during the week you can call Town and ask what happened under this situation and get some clarification but it's not an agenda item tonight and you would call the town manager Francine the town manager and she can perhaps clarify for that for you during the week I'm always willing to to talk to anybody about whatever you need if you wish to wait till tonight it'll be probably late but um it's I'll talk to you after the meeting if you want to wait thank you for coming in thank youate sure no problem do we have any more comments on roads no mayor okay Al righty then we'll have our staff presentation now you're on Jeff and Richard okay um this is a Workshop item um and we're going to be discussing the CI 2024 CIP plan um and probably focus on the road Improvement plan uh program um because I think you all wanted to discuss um uh the order um of the plan um there is about one point there's about $1.7 million um that has been awarded in a contract to Atlantic Southern Paving and seal coating um to do up to uh I think it's 13 segments um and there's also a Road Rock plan which uh is associated with those same roads um that is just over $400,000 So the plan investment at this point in time into um the roadway improvements um for this year is about $2.1 million the roads that have been designated thus far for for Paving are what we would call Subdivision roads um they are based on a subdivision plan um typically found in an unrecorded plat um on on as a result uh of that history there are easements for Road purposes associated with almost all of these Lots um when those easements were originally um granted in the in the documents they did not name a maintenance entity um typically um when you have a recorded plat there would be a requirement that um roadways be uh dedicated to a maintenance entity such as an HOA um or possibly the district or possibly the the county at the time since um most of these roads predate the incorporation of the the town um so the original maintenance that was done on these roads was probably done by a developer and then turned over over time to uh the property owners um there was a history um of the district doing some grading on at least some of these roads prior to incorporation um once the Town Incorporated one of the significant things that the town did was they included all of the roads that you um are dealing with uh tonight and this year on the um gas tax math in order for a road to be placed on the G gas tax map that's an assertion by the um by the town that the town is maintaining those roads I didn't go back all you know to the very beginning of incorporation to see how that was being maintained but there was a 2013 um interlocal agreement that was entered into between um the town and the district at the time they were separate as you all know um for the purposes of grading and maintaining um these roads among others um and so we then came to the the point in time of of merger um of the two entities and the town has been maintaining those roads um since that since that Mur merger once again using the public works department um and the district but there's no question about those roads having been maintained by the the town um as a part of receiving gas tax monies um the uh uh the maintenance entity uh it is authorized to do um drainage associated with the the roadway um that's a specific valid use of those gas tax monies um and so where we're at at this point in time is the the town has been maintaining those roads um the there has been no current um application that we're aware of uh from any member of council any member of the public to say stop maintaining those roads um and if you did if the town cease to maintain the roads there would be a bit of chaos as to how those roads would be maintained um the question then becomes that's before you is whether or not um you want to have these roads paved because it improves the the maintenance um the method of Maintenance that's that's the direction that was um given to us uh during the budget time period and that's what we're here to review um these roads were um included in the uh during the budget there are two roads um Casey Road and U well it's three segments but I think of it as two roads there's Casey and then the B North and North Road from B to C um segments that were not previously a part of the capital Improvement plan but that um has been proposed and was included in this bid document um with that what we proposed to do is go through the segments one by one see if you have any questions um if you want us to skip because you're familiar with them uh the intent is to show you the um aerial of the area to be improved and um the original foundational document um so that you can see that it's laid out in the in the same manner um and then Richard will go over very quickly um what is currently proposed for the roads based on baving bid that we just did and if you want to just talk about particular segments that would be fine with us okay go ahead um I was under the impression that you were gonna revamp this that you were going to look at it and come back with your suggestions on the right way to continue yeah that that's what we're proposing but the road segments have already been put out the bid the bid's already been award that's why we're looking at right now we're just looking at the order and the and the segments that we're going to issue notice to proceed on at this point since we've already issued a you know sent out a bid it's been awarded we can't go back to the bidder and say oh by the way now we want you to do something else we actually have a plan which I've talked to Mr Burkhart about for a and collecting Canal which if you would like I can share with you this evening on how we plan on getting that done before the end of the calendar year um if you want me to do it now or do it later it's up to you to her I was going to suggest that it be put in as the first road to be done on the 2025 budget and therefore get done before the end of the year so that was that was I presume is what you're suggesting yeah essentially the plan is is uh working with Mr Burkhart and the rest of the residents we've already begun pursuing the easements um there's additional easements because the way that road is and everything else it's yeah and and since the other just to continue on since the other Road segments even though they've been approved and budgeted aren't the road work is not anticipated to start till June or July on those other ones having this one be approved in the budgeting process at the end of September beginning of October and put on first thing wouldn't would be a new bid and wouldn't preclude it from being done before the end of the year it could in fact be done before the end of the the the intent is to spend between now and June acquiring all the easements that gives us a couple months to get them on next on on May 7th we're actually going to bring you the list to hopefully you'll uh for you can pre-approve the the easement so that way once we acquire them you sign them the lawyer signs them we record them immediately because you'll have already approved their acquisition we'll lay it because they're all going to be the same all the way up the roads do we excuse me one second I just need to ask over here do we need to make some kind of a motion or some kind of a direction now as a council or take a vote on that we are kind of reapproved the 2025 Capital Improvement project to have that be the first segment done yeah do do we need to do that that would be an appropriate thing to do okay Laura you had something to say this section of collecting canal and a has always been scheduled for the 2025 no so yes we we have it on numerous numerous worksheets as far as the timing of it is concerned now whether it's first second third that you know it it doesn't matter it just needs to get done so I'm kind of confused why we're talking about it because we don't have a cap Improvement plan for that year in place now and even though it's on some long range plan that you have doesn't mean that it's been approved by this Council so we're trying to give direction for him to proceed with staff time to get the the these easements together and everything for something that has not been voted on yet for next year's budget and so that's what I'm looking for as a motion to approve him moving forward with collecting the easements because that would be required correct before staff time was used for him to move forward on collecting the easements for the next year's project that I have no objection to collecting the easements I'm just confused why we're going to say you're going to be first but that's okay it needs to be done well the reason we're saying I think that you're going to be first is because promises were made that all the level one roads were going to be done by the end of the year and I think that that people are counting on that to be done so I think that's why that's why I'm looking for us to take a vote on it and to stand by our word that of this Council that all the level one roads would be done by the end of the year to see that it gets done uh if if I met um if you take a you wanted to take a look at the exhibit a for ordinance 20222 which was referenced in um the CIP plan that um currently exists did does have uh tenative schedules for 2025 26 and 2026 um and a South is on um what page are you on 2025 it's page 16 16 okay um as South is on the 2025 plan um and uh you'll see some other other roads on there as as well um those are those are listed with respect to the the easements um what we're trying to do is is get the EAS in in place what we were planning on doing is coming to you um I think at your may your your May regular meeting have an agenda item um that would identify U the I think it was 23 um properties that Mr Burkhart mentioned um and have a form easement um that you would pre-approve uh so that we could then gather them and record them immediately and have them uh accepted on a pre-approved basis so we would do do that and the timing that we discussed is as the mayor has indicated um having a bid in place for uh a South and other roads that it looks like they're going to um have in the 2025 CIP plan be voted on correct the 2025 has to be voted on 2025 plan would be voted on during the the budgetary process and we move forward at that time you would award or you would discuss that um and put them on the on the plan as a as a whole is typically how it has been done um so that you don't run into the issue of we're talking about one particular Road you would look at that as a as the whole for the road Improvement um program U but we do hope to have a bid out um and ready uh so that an award can be made in uh that October time frame and the work would be able to complete the end of this calendar year okay so back to you Glenn do we need to take make a motion and take a vote to pre-approve this as our first project for on the 2025 budget or not this entire group right here no just I I'm talking about just that one segment I I haven't had a chance to look and fully vet the rest of the group so I don't know how I feel about all of the rest of the roads that are on there to be honest with you um the CIP ordinance will be coming um back before you at May on May 2nd okay so we'll do it then I think it's a little important to understand history and process and I think that both um Mr Curts and Mr Gant are jumping in and just you know to catch everybody to the same spot in time the town has a road paving and a Road Rock plan and it's a four and a fiveyear plan and they were adopted a number of years ago we initially worked on trying to turn those into a capital Improvement plan our Capital Improvement plan is adopted each year with the budget only the first year is budgeted so right now the only thing that is budgeted for capital is fiscal year 2024 but there are five other years that show on the capital plan and 25 and 26 and 27 and 28 are on there showing what we planned and most of the time we start the budget with the capital and try to then fit as much as we can in the capital the CIP was voted on at the time of the budget we are bringing back amendments to the capital plan we did a first reading at I believe it was the March 2nd um agenda meeting and at that meeting um our plan was to include additional roads that were later in the plan for instance Casey Road is now included in the fiscal year 24 plan and it was not in the plan that was adopted in October it was included in the bid that was put out on the street and that bid was awarded by Council including 13 segments and the discussion at the last council meeting when this bid was awarded was that these segments were okay and the bid was awarded however the direction was to revisit the design and to change the order and the way that bid works is that it's by notice to proceed issued by the public works director so this conversation tonight is for the public works director to show you that he has gone back and looked at the design and that he has put the segments in a different order and all through the conversation tonight we can change the order because it's just based on notice to proceed so order you're proposing the way that you have it so the best thing I guess perhaps is us to go through them one at a time Robert is that your light on I see it yes please thank you madam chair um just a quick history lesson A- Road was in this year but last year we did a resolution the roads that we paved last year we did a resolution at Council that said we'll pave these roads based on easements well we learned a lesson there's areas that the paving stop s because we didn't get easements and it's embarrassing and it's four segments are like that so it's not just one little isolated area and that's an embarrassment where people are excited about it and uh you you can't follow through because it's relying on an easement what we said was okay this year we'll do these subdivision roads that have easements and we will have all year to get the easements for a road and collecting canal because almost every other Road had the easements inherit in the subdivision except the main roads the letter roads because they're just left over from a 19 1760 foot right away and canals and things have meandered so although they are the the number one priority Road as far as traffic they are the most difficult road to pave because you need the easements um we started out four years ago with oam roads because we knew the ojm footprint had been there so there was no arguing it it's a solid line of oim so that was pretty good to pretty easy to justify and we moved on to roads that we could do we did what we could with what we had a-road did slide it slid a year and it only slid because of what happened with last year's phases where we had to stop and we couldn't finish it because we one property owner refused to give easements and that controlled four separate Road sections so you're doing a great thing by working together as a team getting the easements I support 100% you know we get this thing out to bid as soon as we can October 1st we got money rolling in and boom you know it should be a no-brainer to do that quickly so just wanted to you know kind of explain why a road did slide a year because it did and that was why because we didn't have easements and that's a narrow road it's going to take some work and and and the land owners are going to you know it's going to take cooperation with with easements and understanding because that is you know it has to be the the standard was minimum 18 ft wide 18 to 20 and then uh striped and and a-road will see a lot of traffic once it's paved there's a lot of traffic on B Road once those people know a-roads paved they're going to turn right on a road instead of going to B road then they're going to head to wall and Tractor Supply and everything else so it's important that that road is as safe as possible and and thank you you know for spearheading this Mr Burkhart I know we had a discussion a long time ago and um okay thank you is uh it's definitely a priority for many many many reasons okay safety being number one in health of the people and the animals thank you okay go ahead Marge yeah not to mention the road but the uh problem came because of the canal when you look at a-road Canal that is a monster wide Canal compared to the others in the town so our road area is the canal okay so some way or another the district needed water flowing as fast as they could obviously so they widened South a road it's wider than North a and um North a canal is wider than many of the other canals in in the district so you know it it's a problem that has been created over the years by trying to move water I believe it was thank you all right let's move on with the road segments because we're gonna be here a long night thank you yeah just the reason one of the reasons why it was going through all the district documents originally this was a water town like everything was transported by water because there weren't cars and there was no way to drive out here with the car until like 1930 so a d and fome were the widest canals in the town because they used to go barges up and down those canals to get to the c-51 to get to um the inter coaster Waterway to get to the Port of Palm Beach to get all the agricultural grown out here to Jacksonville so anyway all right 61st the first one is 161st so um I'm not going to read this this is what already in your packet unless you want me to read it no um so next slide so this is the map of 161st it's Lakeside off of a up to the end which ABS West Lake basically the current road stops about 100 feet short uh basically at the end of the driveways which obviously that's why we went in our Paving uh go to the next slide please this is the unrecorded plat from that area it's north is that way you'll see Lakeside comes down go straight across all the way down you'll see there's a 60 foot Road right away easement and there's also drainage easements in there too those thicker lines those three thicker lines you see there those are actually drainage easements to a and to 162nd and that map is from when 70s it's on the 72 yeah 72 and I actually had residents stop at my office who still have the original paper copy of that map I had a couple residents stop by who still have it because they're they've been there that long that they're like oh I have this do you need a copy of it they literally laid it down on my table it's the original 1972 uh map also when we went through all the Deeds um the majority I think there's only one property that does not specifically call it out but the road is not in that area but all of the Deeds call out 30 foot on on either side of um depending on if they're obviously if they're on the west side it calls out the east 30 ft they're on the east side it calls out the west 30 feet next Slide the next one is Casey Road wait I I want to fully address each road if we can while we're doing it so can we talk about the design that's planned for this road because I I would like to know what what you're planning for this road how many feet of roadway and what other I know that you've been doing some clearing and things in preparation trying to get the dra ready but what what are you proposing for this road so currently we are clearing out the South and West um existing swales we replace the Culvert at the a canal that Fe that feeds this area um we're going back slowly and clearing all the removing all the debris that was placed there um over time and reestablish the drainage sailes when right now we have 23t free open clearance of the road the road will be 18 ft on the low side and then there'll be a 6ot trail unpaved area at this point until we figure out what we want to put down because we don't want to put mulch down because then the mulch will just wash across we don't want to put sand down because the same thing it'll just wash it the selles or refill the selles so we're currently trying to figure out what we want to use but it'll be a six foot wide um Trail basically okay so you're saying an 18 foot roadway with like we talked about an equestrian Trail or a recreational trail directly adjoining it that would be six feet in width correct okay and tell me about striping speed bumps things like that what what are they going to be on that road and so I don't have the bid document it's in the bid document on the speed humps um so there will be speed humps on that road every road has speed humps um the basically the way they're set up is they're roughly every th000 feet um obviously the the way that the way the bid was worded is is they are to be placed at an equilateral distance B you know based on obviously we don't going put in the middle of somebody's driveway um so you know we all of that will be re when we lay it out that's what we'll tell okay put this you know we measure it out let's say the road is 2782 feet you know that would be three speed bumps uh because it's rounding up to 3,000 feet but we're not going to put the first one at 1,000 foot the second one at 2,000 foot and put the other one at the end of the road they would be put an equilateral distance so the first one might actually be at like 700 feet the second one at, 1400 feet and the third one at 2,000 feet or something like that obviously you know doing okay and even though it's only an 18 foot roadway you are going to stripe it 18 foot roadways we've talked about we actually talked about maybe REM on some of these side roads removing the striping but leing you still have to put stop bars in state law requires stop bars stop signs cannot be enforced without stop bars um so the stop bars have to be put in we have to we got we're going to put in 20 foot of the double yellow striping off the Stop Bar um if you go through most neighborhoods that have neighborhood Ros not the whole Road straight correct okay um yeah because in order for a stop sign to be enforced by law enforcement you have to have a stop sign at proper height and a Stop Bar um so if there's ever any accidents anything that else we don't have to worry about the town being liable for an accident because there's no stop L and I have one more question before I'm going to get to everybody were you able to identify the illegal entries that were coming from 162nd that we spoke about I actually have a I have a call into to the director of Indian Trails um I'm waiting for him to call me back and we're going to meet out there and there's more than one yeah I told you there's a couple of them I know most of them go onto people's properties or coming out of their backyard so I don't think we're going to get residents from the acreage tooling through someone's side yard to he'd be surprised oh yeah nothing surprises surprised especially when you down put down pavement a freeway hold on a second Robert was first Robert go ahead yeah so Richard you've got some uh East West drainage e mins that you identified on here correct yes are I mean because this is two miles a road in one little narrow ditch are we going to open up those East West and take advantage of that so So the plan is actually I was talking to Jeff about it today um obviously if I after 51 or 52 years uh walking up go and we're gonna dig a hole in your yard you don't mind do you but the plan is is what I what I want to do is obviously like between I think this is 23 and 25 401 and 43 and then the n one uh whatever the I can't read the numbers from here but um where those are um the idea is to put actual catch basins obviously talked to the residents first put catch basins in in the existing swes on both sides of the road um unless we can use the other Swale because that's the other thing we'd have the South SW or the West swes those three West swes would go into 162nd which is not our Canal that would be Indian Trails so we'd have to get permission from them to to drain into that Canal on that side of the road um that's probably not going to happen but which it doesn't need to but my point is if we're going to put connect that West ditch to the east to eventually go on the canal to obviously put the drainage covers in before we pave yes yeah yeah that would be the idea the idea would be basically is we' put drainage CS in and then Culver it between the property lines and maybe putting a couple of culverts in between for clean outs and then to the canals that way we're not necessarily disturbing I mean obviously there'll be a disturbance in on the Resident Properties during the time the work is going to go on but once the work is completed you know the easement is there the property would understand that if we have a problem we need to clean it out we're going to need to come in here and clean it out but you don't have to move your fence you're not going to have this ditch that you're going to have to worry about mowing they're already mowing their yards so you know I think it would be a win-win it wouldn't be that much more to do something like that phis that's okay okay all right everybody anybody no other questions on6 okay go ahead I want good question um Glenn is there a way good to protect our borders with 162nd because 161st comes out some of the properties come out on to 162 can we Implement a fine for people allowing uh public traffic cut through their own property you're saying if someone allows yes because we are trying to protect our borders I think we develop an ordinance that would prohibit people from allowing their property to be used that way how do you prove they're being used as a that's why I asked Mr Gant to go out and identify because I know that there are some illegal Cuts so I think the first step is identifying yes correct so the way that that works is that we have an interjurisdictional ordinance and that ordinance allows us to stop people from using the entries and exits legal or not on 167 second except for those properties that are part of a lawsuit a leftover lawsuit that in those properties Indian Trail has to give them a permit to be able to use those property so technically anybody that is using access on 162nd that does not have a driveway or covert permit from I is breaking our code of ordinances and can be subject to um a fine well so how are you gonna stop that because we've got all kinds of stuff going on throughout town that we can't stop so what is the fine what is in place to protect our borders what is in place is the ordinance and given that there is a lawsuit we can't actually impose it on every one I think there's something like maybe call it a dozen properties that can still be permitted right um but the rest of them we can go ahead and place somebody on 160c and watch people come in and out of driveways and give them a code violation and if they don't close off that access then we can get a finding of violation and we can charge 250 a day until they close that access um and then if they continue to use it and we watch them we can go to a second fine of 500 a day I don't know if that's something you want us to do because we can do it we can station someone on 1602 and watch who's coming in and out I just think most of the folks that have the permits and are land owners and live in the town are not going to allow people to cut through their property I'm concerned about some of the businesses and some the other vacant properties out there that's my concern technically that driveway can't be on 162nd the driveway has to be on 161st that's really if their house faces 1602 they have a driveway out to 160 would like all of those driveways closed well they should have work with Palm Beach County back in the day because okay all right well that's regardless I'll share with you all the lawsuit which I'm going to share with Mr Gant so he sees which properties are actually I guess Exempted from this okay thank you yeah that's the intent of the meeting I have with the director of Indian Trails because Indian Trails is a little braver um they if you put an illegal culbert in in Indian Trails they'll just rip it out for you they don't even ask questions that's true they just rip it out and so my intent of my meeting with with Burgess is to go out out there and identify the ones that need to be removed and let them go out there and so that way we're not the bad guy they're the bad guy uh because it's their canal and also their Canal is also backing up because they're not maintaining it properly it's backing up into our residence yards because I've had a few complaints about that so that's the other intent of my um meeting with him is to not only discuss the illegal coverts but also to address the that Canal as a whole to make sure they're actually cleaning it out so we don't have so they're it's not flooding ours thank you all right let's move on to Casey all right Casey Road um this is the picture of Casey Road go to the next slide this is the uh Road right away is a 60 foot RightWay we've talked to a lot of the residents on KC um they're thrilled that were we've actually removed a lot of the Australian pines on there some of them are in the road um and so we're actually in the process of removing those as we speak we have Crews on Casey and we're putting the rock down and everything on that road now um realigning the road we've actually moved all the mailboxes beautiful and everybody's who we've talked to seems to be happy about it um the design would be similar to the 101 161st where the we were to Shi the road and then put in trail on the side same thing 23 foot wide2 foot Road 5 foot six foot Trail 20 foot 20 foot and a 4 foot Trail on that one yeah okay and and striping because it's 20 feet that one will be strip because it's 20 feet for sure okay all right uh any questions on that all right next one so next is Carry Lane so this is the picture of Carry Lane it runs off the f Road why does it run why is car a priority I don't um so there is a plat there is the 60 you see the 60 foot right away above it there's a 25 foot Road easement to get to those roads we may actually move this one down a little bit because I might do the same thing I want to do with global and try to do the three other roads at the same time because again we're going to have to put a grater down that road anyways if we're going to pay one road and leave three roads un paav still going have to drive I'm going to suggest that you move it way down the list with like you did with global for so you're still Paving groups there all right next slide uh East Citrus Drive all right that's e Citrus Drive next slide so this is the this is obviously right behind us here um that actually has a wider opening there's a 30 foot on each side that's shown there runs between um f and E and same thing we're going to do the I was 18 20 foot wide with a uh 4 foot 20 foot wide with a 4ot trail yeah actually we're working with parks to try to get an easement out of them um for the their side there will be some natives that may be removed for that one but it won't be many because we've already scoped it out there's like like three cabbage BBS and we're actually gon to try to try talk Parks see if they'll move so so are you um speed humps I keep hearing speed humps speed humps oh we doing we're an equestrian Community are we doing speed tables yeah they're seminal style I don't know how everybody else feels about speed humps but right they're seminal style speed tables that basically the same thing that we're they're gradual they just keep people from flying down the idea is to keep them under 80 and and uh East Citrus is 20 feet so again it will be striped correct okay I'm sorry Laura thank you just out of curious curiosity what are the vertical dotted lines if you went three properties in from the left and one two and a half properties in from the right those are so you're talking about horizontal ones the vertical ones oh you know those are I wonder if those are the original those might be the original yeah those might be the original lines cuz see the measurement on the bottom once 7 98.8 one says 800.637.8170 and work our way south and we don't that that's the last that'll be the last road that has to be paved because um North Road is already paved F's already paved E's already paved and what are you and those are 147 those are like quarter I a quarter acre lots right eight eth acre lots we actually own a part we own the rectangle in there you're what yeah we own the easeman like we literally have a deed a quick claim deed from the county for an easement on that in that so we own half of people's houses uh no we own their easement the 30 foot easement but why would you put 30 foot Road I mean what are you planning on doing there it's a 30 foot there's 30 foot on each side so it's 60 foot that's standard so you have a 20 foot Road 10 foot on each side for drainage and one of the improvements we're also going to make to this road is because there's that corner house here on the left hand on the right hand side in the bottom right hand corner has like serious flooding issues cuz all the water goes that Direction and there's nothing across North Road to the canal well does that back up to d Road no no North is that way 147 nor that's North Road that's North Road right I understand that but I'm looking at this end of the property and I think there's a 10 acre parcel back there that's brought in a lot of fill if I'm correct on this side to the west and speaking to Residents who are long-term residents of that neighborhood it's been an forever a maor problem are your neighbors so yeah so the idea is we're going to recut the we're going to cut the swes we're going to put the the culbert pipes across North Road on both sides um and establish actually won't even be reestablishing it'll be establishing a drainage system so we don't flood those properties out wouldn't this small Road be a good place to consider one of the smaller neighborhood roads and not go with a 20 foot road with this is this is proposed to be a 16 foot Road thank you okay and another question question North Road in that area is is deplorable I mean it's really really bad um is there any chance that there might be a leftover couple of dollars to try to fix that up a little bit while we're out there with the staging and everything I mean so the way it's bid is that when they when they pave out to the road they'll go up both directions for 40 feet so that'll take care of 80 feet plus the width of the road which is 16 feet so 56 feet um I believe on the CIP in the future is to repave all of North Road okay so that's a 16 foot Road just to make sure that because we have heard two different things and so no striping no speed humps obviously because of the length of it uh I'd have to go back well yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't imagine okay and potentially some repair to the aprons around on North Road okay Marge yes um Phyllis was correct with 147th uh back up onto property that does front um Dad because I was called uh to a property um around 3665 where there were 18 wheelers bringing in loads and loads and loads of garbage vegetative garbage in black bags and uh they said they were filling it three feet high throughout the uh 5 acre uh lot in order to start a banana Farm there and what it did was it started a flooding episode uh the uh person at 3665 was growing uh orchids in a in a a greenhouse and the greenhouse was flooded and she lost her orchids so yes it did present a big problem yeah I can't I mean one of the issues I've talked about this before is I can't fix things that happened years ago I mean I can only work with what I have today that was in code enforcement and I think the D um Department of uh environment environment D got involved check so there should be a file we'll try to find it Wes C so W's see um it say same thing as the um Carry yes that's similar to carry um that's why it's latter on the list same thing probably might move it might even move it further down to try to pave all the other roads at the same time and may I yes and that road also gets very narrow and that ends into Forest yeah I don't think we're Paving all the way to the end we're only Paving to the you're Paving what w see yeah but what are you Paving you're not gonna P road to road so you're G to PVE from forest to Scott Forest to Scott Forest to Scott yeah but you would consider moving that down the list so you could do that whole section over there correct perhaps in a future plan um um okay 24th Court 24 Court East of f um where it is it's off of f Road go to the next slide okay there was a plat a picture to go with that uh we do have an unrecorded plat for that property or for that that shows it I don't know why how it somehow got deleted but yeah there is an unrecorded plat it's a small subdivision Road there'll be no striping and I believe it's also 16 ft um May I so that's off of the eoad or f f Ro okay and but you're doing 24th Court also off of eoad off of f Ro F Ro the one across the West the one yeah basically they're cross the street from each other east west of f Ro correct so the next next one is so this one's weird but all the Deeds have easements and that curve appears in that land owner's deed that I don't know why but that curve is there it's in the deed there is a an easement that goes from frro all the way to that back property and it follows that curvature looks like there's a pond in the middle that's why um there may have been I don't know what's there now looks like they're bar okay so you're basically just doing six you're just doing a 16 foot of all of 24th Court Crossing f Road from east to west correct okay thank you all right grouper so Gerber Lane runs as you can see next slide so this is the unrecorded plat from D to C shows a 60 foot Road RightWay eement um we've already removed all the Australians from there we've cleared out this started clearing out the swes we still to remove the root balls and stuff off the um out of the swes to reestablish some of the swes because we've had a few residents there mentioned that their yards flood um this would be one of the roads that we would do 18 foot plus a six foot um Trail down one side to connect um two roads C and D are the stumps going huh stumps going yes yeah the what our part of our road projects currently we're working on the roads and actually one of the things I going to bring back to you guys is to talk to you guys about the drainage stuff that we're doing but right now we're trying to reestablish uh proper drainage on these side roads to our major canals so that the properties will actually start draining properly so they don't flood 18 ft with a six foot Trail and right now what about a Swale sides no there's swes on both sides yeah there swes on both sides this one has established swes the problem with this NE with this road is those three Center properties on both sides of the road had monster Australian pines that just took over the swes and filled them in and so the water wasn't able to flow so we're removing the Australians and reestablishing the Swale so that the water will flow and where and are you putting a horse trail and a walking trailing yes yes and where's that going Road just like it is on several other in the S no no the SW be we have a 20 we have a 26 foot opening between Swale to Swale in the middle of the road that's there that's already there it's been there we're not making it wider it's been there so the allpurpose trail is going to be on the inside of the Swale next to the road it's going to be between the road and the Swale Edge and then you'll still have swes on either side because the swes existed that's another road that we had when we started cleaning out the swes the residents were like oh thank you because a lot of them don't have the ability to knock down 60 foot tall Australian pines that should have been cut down 40 years ago all right are you done yes West D so West D um we don't need any easements for that because it's actually part of the original 136t wide um opening that goes from from the c-51 canal to collecting Canal um so as you can see there it's 136 foot wide um and that's going to be held out to the end we're actually contemplating just doing the intersection and the road to the public works office because your Public Works director would appreciate that um and new in that area in my opinion Tangerine is probably more important than doing West D because there's a lot more traffic off of West D and um Temple I think is the road next north of it has some serious drainage issues that need to be addressed which are going to can we replace West D with I will have to talk to the I I got to look at the length and see if we can just flip it I mean because it's not we're not moving it across town we're literally taking a road that's here and moving it to here so um we looked at the alignment because I know one of the things we talked about was the alignment of the road um and unless some kind of Act of God comes where AT&T will move their equipment their their equipment is in our easement their telephone BS are in our ease man the so there's no way to ever truly without the only real way to realign that is to move the bridge or get AT&T to remove all that gear they have sitting there on the corner which that's not going to happen Okay Robert yeah I want to go back in history all these roads we're talking about have been in the capital plan there was no no intention to ever pave all the roads when you talk about Farley and and these dead end roads so I'm sorry Barley's the one long but the the dead end roads that come off they're like Scott Place Roberts way so the intent was that those get box bladed and we paid the main roads in these high density areas with fingers the dead end fingers get box bladed the main Road's paved and then in two years instead of paying $10 $140,000 balloon payment on a grater we turn The Grater in and then we contract Grading Services as we need them so that was the philosophy that was the philosophy I'm not saying it is now but that's why these roads are in the pavings they've been in the CIP all along to do these roads so if there's a philosophical change to pave every Road intersection instead of just the main road and not the dead end fingers then that's a a complete change in Direction in in philosophy so we'll need to clarify that thank you I'm pretty sure April drive and Flamingo are paved right yeah they are and so excuse me she's speaking well this excuse me she's speaking um so I guess I was going to ask um so changes need to be made obviously we have fresh eyes looking at our projects I was going to ask um our town attorney but I forgot at the moment so I'm sorry thank you thank you Robert you had something you wanted to add uh well just like back in the beginning Flamingo Raymond Drive Paradise those are all roads that people signed up for the cost sharing um six years ago so back before I got on Council so there was a almost like promis made and that's why those initially were D those also are high density roads when you look at the number of houses on them so that's the goal I think was to do all the high density High use roads that do require gring frequently and so like I say that should that was just the intent of the the paving program for the last few years there's a philosophical change if if Richard doesn't support it and gets Council by and to go a new Direction then then that's fine but I just want to explain why these got there years ago and the other finger I call them fingers the dead end roads aren't on there thank you Martin yeah um I think if funds are available every resident in this town deserves a decent Road no dust you know no puddling no Rippling washboarding you know let's be fair to everybody and um it will also cut down uh the need for so many pieces of equipment and so much maintenance work you know dollarwise thank you okay uh where are we at okay um global global what um we were at guber though what no we finished guber we did Westy and what about the people that don't want it paved that's why we're putting a horse trail beside it and satisfying everybody the horse people have a six- foot Trail to ride on and the people who want paved Road will have okay paved Road and hopefully that will be something that will accommodate everybody and also accommodate a long-term vision of having our other trail system open along the Le Road and we'll be all connected we'll have these Crossroads connected with Trails on them and we really truly will be a an an a rural community where people can walk ride their bike ride their horse walk their dog throughout the entire town without getting run yes without getting run over that's really wonderful okay Global Trail all right Global so that's Global um next slide that is that's the unrecorded plot um that's how it's that's how it's on the County's website so you see there's this they have the ements all the easements are there they have cross all the cross easements um this was one of the ones that we decided to push towards the end um because of the finger roads they're not that long um they're you know a couple hundred feet long so I think adding them would not be that far to do right and we did more of court so I mean we wouldn't have to go all the way to the South End we'd literally have to go to the second property so we just have to go across the all the five acres basically and then we would never have to drive a grater a box blade or anything up there again um to do any work we do have to there's the drainage ement on the South Side there's one on the south side and one actually technically that's the west side and East Side North is that way um those have to be be fixed because they've been allowed to become severely overgrown and it's creating flooding problems for those residents so that's on my list of things to do so let me ask you a question what are the chances that we actually are going to get to these all in 2024 if we're not starting till June pretty slim now once I issue the nose to proceeded I'm going to probably issue the notes to proceed on the first eight um and let them get to work on those and then we'll have to because we still have work to do on all of them and figure out what we're going to do with the rest of them okay um did you want to say something before we do the last two segments yeah um in This Global area here you see the word Kier on there Marilyn Kier used to U be in charge of the uh Town trails with Cassie sui's uh mother and uh if if you put any Trails up there name one of them here Trail yay March good history all right although the northern side of that is Westlake so I don't think we'll be able to put up a big fence okay um so the the last two are the are the two that are sort of the contingent segments so when you're speaking about doing them I'd like you to address the question that was asked about I mean it's my understanding that they will not this pavement Paving is not budgeted and cannot and will not happen unless the donation is made that is my understanding corre so in fact it is paying for a road to get done so um can you address that or perhaps you Jeff and and make sure that our cost m mitigation for the tree depletion is not being object affected by this deal or this Arrangement and the other issues that were brought up when you're discussing this please thank you um first of all these these two roads uh were part of um the CIP for future years they were Advanced um based on the possibility of a donation we're we're still very early in the discussions I think with um folks we have a meeting with um their representative later this week uh be engaged with us now that a lot of the football operations are settling down a big draft to worry about soon um but uh they're going to re-engage and we are discussing um a resolution of a number of of issues uh the uh to the extent there would be any fine associated with any of their issues what we're seeking from them is um a donation of a conservation P that would allow us to have a receiver site um for our tree mitigation areas or for our tree mitigation monies right right now as you know we collect some tree mitigation funds that are supposed to be utilized to plant trees and we don't have great sites um for those potential trees which we now have a little bit of money for um so one of the things we're trying to negotiate with them in addition to a contribution um is um a donation um or a conservation easement on their property of there those are the things that we are talking about at this point in time uh nothing is set in stone um the donation has been discussed as a true [Music] donation hasn't none of the discussions have said if you do this we would um pave the the road um there was some logic associated with the the relationship and there is a need that was established to have those roads done um I have concerns about the non-complete projects I'm going to I'm going to talk about roads that are not complete okay um what are you doing about that and you know what we heard about this is it 200,000 250,000 how long ago did we hear about that three months ago four months ago my recollection is it was initially discussed in the December time period um and there had been their local representative had indicated that um you know something in by the end of the year might be significant when we have talked um to the corporate folks um they have not indicated that the timing was an issue they' been rev the the project represent reengage so it kind of sounds like you're renegotiating because we only got $220,000 for them to use broad every year for was it 10 years 10 which is 200 it's a$2 200,000 200,000 so not a big chunka when you're driving tractor trailers up and down our roads so can we negotiate for more money not you know it's very generous that they want to offer us 200,000 but they're tearing our roads up notion discussion no I'm not saying that no I'm not saying that I'm saying since they brought up money let's ask for more money can I interrupt if you wouldn't mind well the point I want to make okay the point I want to make regardless what they give us we have we have roads that we paved part of which burns my butt to no end so um what are we doing to complete the pavement on say two roads in town Westy and W West G G and there's another road on the North side so all those roads are contingent on the same property onor giving sement which she refuses to do pave the footprint pave the footprint we T I talked about it with the manager the footprint is about 10 ft I did speak with him the footprint is about 10 ft one of the problem be 10 because it's 10 feet and how wide is the greater how wide is a greater because this town has been telling people we've been maintaining their roads with a greater so might I continue because I can let let frine finish her point and then yeah I'm not gonna talk a long time I'm gonna just explain it to you we maintain the full size of the road however the only piece that we have a roadway easement on is about the piece that is actually ours is about 10 feet we can't pave 10 feet and be safe we need to pave a little bit more than that to be safe if we pave anything less than 16 feet per our director of Public Works the edges break number one number two because we have only a 10-ft lane that means when people are pulling on we're causing an even greater problem with the road um condition but you know I think he can go ahead and explain that better than anyone can and additionally we have not finished with what we can do because for the properties that have not given us easement and those for which we have not found warranty deeds or other instruments in the official books and Records we can go to the fund and we can do a title search and we have not yet done that we can as soon as we have enough properties to do it with and we're close to that but Paving just the 10 feet is not a safe condition it is just not and all those nurseries down there are open to the public is that correct they're open to the public which is non nonconforming for what our town is so that is an issue in the town so we have retail and wholesale Nursery and Landscaping companies and there are many many many of those things happening in town um and I'm not sure if it's like what came first the chicken or the egg because every one of the nurseries we have regardless of whether they say wholesale or not you can walk on that that's not true mostly true not everyone but a large majority of them I would agree um so I'm saying especially on that corner they pretty much gone retail so I'm just saying if they're welcoming the public and you're saying the road isn't safe then let's enforce the let's let's enforce code you remember that the direction last year was to try to secure easements because there was potential argument in those areas didn't have easements in the um title history um and there was the potential argument that um you had not M the town had not maintained the roads the roads shouldn't have gotten paid let him finish so that that issue of how long you need to maintain a road um that goes away in everybody's mind in 2025 Okay so you weren't here for that correct so the town paved the road and left the section which is now deemed unsafe think that's not what I said I said if we pave only 10 but you have to grade it how much are you grading we're grading the whole road if we pave 10 feet we still have to grade the other side additionally cars pulling off cars going on both sides of the road it will be a a safety hazard and it will damage the pavement we put down as much as it will damage the unpaved side of the road but if you give us Direction I Would defer to our engineer and Public Works director as to whether we can safely pave 10 feet I'm only repeating what I've been told and I understand can I just ask a question Mar I know you've had your light on um so how about negotiating with the person I don't know going to the person and saying okay all your neighbors are really unhappy and this is creating a a bad situation I mean I presume that you have tried to go out and speak to this person Jeff and I spoke to Jeff and I have spoke to the resident at Alam um I the residents call me and I tell the residents go talk to them maybe you can talk to them M um 25th in my humble opinion is unsafe dirt or paved because the resident has planted things along the edge of the road to which if somebody's going down that road One Direction and somebody's going the other way not paying attention somebody's going in the canal because there is you can't go the other direction because of all the stuff that's been planted there and that's both directions G West or G East um nor South North Road is in the exact same condition um I actually plan on reaching out I was going to let it cool off a little bit and then reach out to her again and see if she'd be more meable maybe some of the residents have talked to her and said can you please I get emails excuse me I get emails at least once a week from a couple of residents on that road begging us to pave the road it's like I can't PVE on private property do they want to be paved for their Frontage do they want to be what paid oh yeah absolutely well find out what they want I don't think you heard correctly she the council member said P Aid yeah she's insinuated that she wants something similar to what the county does and that's what the county does County buys rights away okay all right there has never been request request or I don't I don't want to don't want her to get this impression I think this right I think let's just let things calm down a little bit and then go back with calmer heads prevailing and try again because it is ridiculous to not have that section done March you've been very patient thank you yeah um I know that there are some roads that uh people did a 5050 um payment on and the agreement was that they would have speed humps on those roads are you aware that some of the roads have not had the Speed humps put in I am not aware of any of that so what what do you need you need the residents to come forward and and let you know that uh hey get the contractor back here and put the humps in yeah I guess I'll talk to I can talk to Francine find what road zos might be or if anybody knows what road zos are I this is the first time hearing start with Marcel Marcel is one of them Raymond I think is another one no they didn't they weren't 5050 Raymond the county did the town actually P seven roads that were previously voted to be bonded in 5050 and we can go back and look at this feed tables or lack thereof on those streets I think one of the things that has been discussed by the council quite regularly is trying to create a road standard for neighborhood roads which is smaller without necessarily the same type of stuff like speed tables and striping and so on and they can be smaller roads that we won't damage um at the the thinner amount but well I I think you know um you need to have a meeting of the uh the people involved yeah because I think some of them are of the assumption that they were expecting certain things to be done you know and and other things not to be done so I think you need to clear it up before you mess it up well what we can do is look at all the paved roads that we have not done recently and look at the speed tables and consider the idea as we look at the road standards and we can do what other towns do and that is when a neighborhood wishes to have um a different level of traffic caling they just all need to tell us and way we go Robert I think you were next yeah there when I said amen the philis is comment I thought the comment was if we can grade it we can pave it it wasn't necessarily pave 10 feet it was pave the area that we grade that's where I was yeah that's that's what I thought it wasn't about 10 P was about okay we spend public money to grade 20 feet 18 feet 16 feet where all we're doing is changing the surface from gradable dirt to Asphalt so that that is my my amen there on that um I think what he was saying that is that we can't don't have that until 2025 which is next year well it's again a philosophical ECT to to the maintenance of the the roadways that that was the end of any argument on that direction that had been um given by the council to try to secure the easements and when you've gone and ask for an easement and then go and say oh no no never mind even though you that you know 2025 is the magic date that somewh of an inconsistent just a quick followup did we get the easements on um e Road North the two the two easement so that could be paved and is that something that cheum would come back and do as a change order the contract or their contractors over we we've talked to to them being included in um that same time period as we were talking about earlier with the 25 Paving plan okay one of the owners about that they seem to understand the issue versus but I mean it sounds like you know if there's a change in plan in some of these roads Richard I'm not you know arguing about your philosophy of pave the fingers I don't ever have to go there again because that is a good thing to never have to drive a tractor down there again then it it may be you know you pull a couple of them off and you rebid with a-road and collecting canal and you add you know you rebid bidic with the fingers you know you rebid the north part of eoad you know you rebid other things right they don't get done this don't make sense to maybe do right now so because we don't want to have any more Road segments with big punks sticking out of them so yeah but that bid should happen sooner than later I agree yeah Laura I'm not quite sure how to put the words together here but as you've put this list together I'm I'm assuming that's somewhere there's an if this then that meaning if we get these three subdivisions done then that frees up xers x amount of equipment that can be directed to do something else within the town that needs doing and what I'm driving at here is my trust is in the professionals who do this on a day-to-day as far as I'm concerned Council brings you big picture and big ideas but it's up to you guys to make all of this nitty-gritty fit so I suppose the real question is if this plan gets pulled apart revamped shredded changed rebid changed ordered whatever how is that going to affect your if this then that as far as use of equipment people projects other things that need doing so currently staff is working on preparing the roads for Paving um that includes clearing out SS removing the Exotics bringing in the road Rock leveling the roads um doing all that work once they are done with that which theoretically they should be done with that by June um they're going to go move on to the 2025 Paving that's the plan the idea is when we go out for to because the idea what I was going to mention earli with the a-road stuff we get the we get the easements once we secure the easements in that same conversation we tell the land owner this is what we're going to do so don't freak out when we see our people out here doing it um so that way that conversation's already been had so it's not just somebody showing up on their doorstep we've done that with some of the paving projects uh work that we're doing in advance we talked to the owners and tell them hey this is what we're doing and a lot of them appreciate it um as far as moving forward you know we would obviously we work we'd work towards getting the next Paving plan because the 2025 Paving plan I I hope to have completed by December of 2024 that would leave us January through May of 2025 to start working I mean we still have people working on drainage issues but work more toward and start pushing more towards the drainage as we get more more of the roads paved I would strongly caution that the council to not recommend getting rid of those employees who are involved with Rock and Paving because there is so much drainage work that needs to be done in this town that I could keep if I if I paved every road tomorrow I could keep all my my nine employees busy for the next 10 years just doing drainage alone and that's what I'm driving at meaning if a certain segment or section isn't complete isn't ready you know and the paving contractor is in town it everything is not going to come to a grinding halt you know the contractor can be redirected without an expensive change order and the employees can be reassessed to do something else that's what I want to be sure happens because we we had a couple of grinding halts with our last Paving contract where where nothingness was happening so the notice of proceed the notice of proceed is not even going to be given to the contractor until the road segments we want them to pay ready we're not even going to give them the notice to proceed and has easements let's not make that mistake again I know that wasn't you as we went through there's like literally three properties that might be questionable on the easement um and two of them I know we've already talked to about in the third one the road's not even in the their on their property because the way the road just lays um we have surveyors going out there they going to survey the property Corners they got they're setting benchmarks um you know our crews are going to transverse them down all the roads so the roads are all in the right spot um and all that work will be done prior to the contractor rolling in on the first day to do any work to do layout to do anything um so yeah the intent is to have segments we give them the notice to proceed on those segments will be 100% ready to pave the day they get their notice to proce okay thank you let's talk about drainage and Canal program um the the drainage and the drainage and Canal program from the CIP perspective um we had uh originally thought that we would do do sailes and catch basins um as the the focus um as it turned out uh as this year has gone forward um rich keeps on finding uh coverts that need to be replaced and those have taken priority um there is a list of uh five uh of them uh the B Road Bridge culbert 11th Terrace and G um the f- road and collecting Canal um Bridge calverts which is a big tiet item that is currently uh under design um once it's designed we will go out to bid um for that particular project um and then uh you got 12 Place Northbridge Calvert um that is out there we've completed the um collecting Canal um emergency repairs um Richard's staff is uh working on what I've referred to in here is the the general Bank restoration ation project to distinguish it from collecting canal in particular um and uh the other item is your resiliency grant program um and you will hear uh more about that program at uh May 20 I think it's the May 21st Workshop um where we're going to focus on um drainage issues in a more specific that those that total of the CIP is just uh about $1.6 million 1.78 um so any questions on this no okay did we get all the public comments on this section we received two more okay you w to call those people up before we move on yes mayor uh Miss mcnicholas is it on it's want me to do talk loud okay I have no problem with that Mary mcnicholas 12845 Raymond Drive I just is it being recorded or not okay great great thank you so what I wanted to mention and obviously there was you know some people spoke in the beginning and other people spoke towards the end and sorry to interrupt your drainage part but one thing that I clearly remember in the past two to three years is that we specifically said we were going to do north south roads now not that you all have not done a fantastic job you're having to catch up for a lot of things and you all been it looks like you've been doing a really good plan plan the thing that I have a problem with is why are we spending any of the money on these side little roads and everything if you will and in essence why are we not doing it to like the road that we specifically talked about for the north south roads I understand there's some hiccups with North B that's beyond your control I understand there's some hiccups with North F I'm sorry North fome which is then goes into G squ I have an idea for that why don't you just make it one way all the way around the circle but that's just a thought anyway as far as it goes why are we not doing a Road South and and including the the the collecting Canal part because you know I understand there were some conversations that it might be done October 1 that's great except I recall a little differently than our council member did but in essence for the past two years it was specifically said that we would do the nor South roads those that was the intent is which Council me member Shore said that we basically get those main roads paved not that you all don't agree all agree on this but we need to take some action I mean you're not as this board you're not bound to what previous boards have made decisions on your Capital approvement not to put wrenches in different things that y'all been working on but in essence you can make decisions on what it is that we need to do and if they need to hurry up and get their easts they might have two or whatever then let them go ahead and get their easts and get it done um anyway that's pretty much what I had to say I just really wish that you would move forward instead of I mean this there's a CIP plan there's a road paving and a Road Rock plan and I understand that you want to go and close out some of those pockets of areas that you know where you don't have to go back with heavy equipment that makes sense however we need to get a Road South the north south roads done like was discussed to begin with thank you I think there's another one right there's one more Miss sish Virginia Standish 154 when Zer North Road six months into our budget I'm hoping the last six months we can get a mic system video system whatever that works I think we're what at six million uh if not let's get it into next year um on this project um I want to thank Mr Gant for recognizing these East West drainage easements that the district has had for decades I brought it up over the years multiple times it was ignored and it would have saved a lot of drama in the past over getting drainage easements there's many more there were eastwest easements throughout drainage easements throughout this town and I don't know why previous supervisors allowed some of them to be filled up incorrectly when they existed in in the documents um I also want to point out that you know as we all know there was an existing 60 foot easement that the district had 20 foot Canal 20 foot on each side so residents are cautious and they have been cautious when being approached by the district and the town the biggest concern is the infrastructure in the canal Banks you can put all this money you want on top of this road okay so the infrastructure under the canal and the control of these projects are the two biggest concerns along the north Road Canal I can tell you there are culs that have been damaged by the fpnl subcontractor that must be addressed if they want to twiddle their F thumbs it's going to hold up your project because I will stand here and ask you why you are putting money on any road when the road underneath has damaged culverts with wire running through them in addition there's old infrastructure from maybe 50 years ago that were cement culverts that you can see in the canal Bank are just now openings those must be addressed as well back to the control of the project who is going to control this project and ensure that the correct Rock depth and the correct pavement depth is put down by the subcontractor at or the contractor as an example it is a very visible difference on B- Road North that there is a difference in depth in the amount of pavement that was put down um and I would like to correct a statement that only uh segments were done where easements were obtained that is not true B Road North being an example there was a section that pay was p that had no easement granted um I just really think you need to be cautious going forward do your due diligence as you're doing plan and prep but let's not rush out and make mistakes that like similar to the Past thank you thank you Manders any yes Mr SU I would like to say a couple of things one 3765 I think I would like to reprend the council to finish the half pip for example my because it has created more haard by develing all the water and creating H when the road ends and the dir Road begins and it has extraordinary cost to do the breeding of the back so that's Point number one point number two and the reason I wanted to speak today was because I heard a lot of comments where we are trying to paint some of the residents who either did not sign their easements or who are not signing the reement as some sort of villain I think we need to be little more considered I was one of those Catholics I ultimately signed I ultimately signed but from the day one when that agreement was presented to me and then thanks to miss sui who opened my eyes and educated me on all the agreement affects you know my property rights it took me a long time and thanks to Jeff and other people here we finally agreed but agreed but I would like to share those five principles that I heard in a very hard fashion negotiated with the town so here are those five things for all of you who are not signing glad to share one the drainage pement will only be used for ring the existing scope in other words let's say This Town Council changes or somebody else comes in cannot expand the road and Dev that water to my drainage principle number two easement will never be used for expanding the roads if I'm giving you the road easement you cannot now add three ft on the left side or the right side can never become a high number three principle number three my existing fence and my existing hge is in compliance after signing the smth in other words you will not disturb or move my existing P for Ed and if there is any issue you better tell me now before I sign the lease number four if my property size reduces which it will everybody gentlemen and ladies your property size will reduce after you sign these e b but I wanted an assurance that the zoning that is applicable to me I have Cranch I will always be a beneficiary of that 10 acre size and I can do almost everything that anyone else who has 10 acre can do if I have 9.99 I would not be deficient of any such planning and soon and R number five the legal interpretation of the Dre is that I always have that in other words you're not signing your ownership thank you very much thank you sir very thorough thank you and that's back to the checklist which is our NE item that I was talking about to make sure that people understand back to the checklist okay I think that we can put this item to bed there was a question of why Pages 10 to 15 were removed can somebody address that yes um when the when the person put in exhibit um a which starts I think on page 16 or um they had included um backup materials that were used in previous iteration of exhibit a which had been presented to you um at the first reading of the CIP ordinance um those documents obviously didn't tie into um this revised document and I didn't think it was necessary uh to reiterate all those points that we had made previously for this meeting so there had been the inclusion of documents that were irrelevant to the presentation okay let me backtrack just one second thank you for addressing that Jeff um I'm just going to backtack one second so the recommendation from the CIP was uh discussion and Direction and just to review the direction the direction that was was given was as I understand it and I want to make sure that we're clear on this for everybody that Mr Galant will decide the order which might look like this order but might change with some of the changes that he suggested that he brought forth here so that this 2024 Capital Improvement project may actually not be completed as part of this bid that it may it may not actually all these rids may not get done there may be some changes but we're leaving that at his council is leaving that at his discretion being like to swap if it can be done without a significant cost Tangerine for Westy or something such as that nature um that he's going to take a very close look at moving a road forward as soon as possible um and repair completing or repairing those sections that are half paved for lack of a better term as soon as possible is that everybody's understanding of what the outcome of this discussion was does anybody have anything else to add okay okay all right well I just want to make sure because there was a lot of talk I just want to make sure we got it all summarized okay that's Richard will be discussing the order with the contractor now that we had this meeting and he will advise you as to proceed okay that because what I'm hearing from everybody is that they'd much rather see these missing segments done than see like Carrie Lane done okay so that that's what I'm hearing up here so I don't know whether that's a possibility but certainly something for you to look into and that we'd all much rather see a road done than some of these smaller segments done real good chance that um all that will have to be part of a future bid rather than a substitution okay well would be great if it could be Madam chair just real quick uh do we want to get a consensus on that philosophy to pull roads like that and then uh rebid with the fingers on on the future bid I mean because the bid is and and let me the reason I bring this up is the change order cost on this bid when you look at the five or six six biders it is the fifth highest cost for change orders even though it's the lowest cost for the scope of the segments it is almost the highest cost on the change order unit costs so I think he he here's the thing it's not a change order to pull up for us to not do a road on the project what's at his discretion so until he sends the proceed order it it just drops off at the end of the contract so time to solidify that aoad collecting canal bid and whatever else he wants to right he wants to pull from this and add to that right so I don't think that he has to officially pull it as a change order I think he just never gives the notice to proceed on those segments as part of this bit and it costs us nothing so I'm not saying pulls a change or I just would would hesitate to add roades a change order say right well unless they let us flip-flop those two which they might if it's equal uh you're clear with all this talk of what everybody wants okay good great okay we're going to review the easement policy um this is uh again uh actually Francine yes this has your name written on it I'm sorry does but you know I like to share the wealth anyway um this is a a revisit of the policy that we approved on April 2nd where we added a statement in number seven that allowed um Council to let staff accept temporary Andor construction easements and also we added a sentence in there in April that would allow um Council to give direction pre-approving a list of easements for instance like a road you could say you want to we want you to PVE a road it's on the paving plan please go obtain all the easements for a road and as long as you make no Financial um arrangements with anyone then you don't have to bring them back they're approved so that was the change that was made since that point in time there have been a couple of other changes suggested one is that in item one um we add an a sub item C and say that the town May request from Property Owners within the town the following easements for additional RightWay and easements for multi-use trails and now a c that would add temporary easements because we talk about them in item seven below and then another suggestion was in item five that in addition to the list of people that can obtain easements which are primarily the Public Works director Town engineer Town Administration and if we hire a lobbyist to do so that we Adeline that there shall be no council member involvement in the easement acquisition process and then finally um and we've heard it even earlier tonight and thank you Mr Su you did a good job on giving us the basis of that checklist there's a request that in addition to um signing the easement that we go through a plain language checklist of the process with each property owner and the town and the property owner sign and again thanks to Mr Su we would certainly include those items great start so this item is back for discussion and again I think as miss miss Miss mcnicholas said nothing's written in stone you can change anything any any comments from anybody on this Laura public comment oh I'm sorry is there public comment on this item I'm sorry I thank you Robert yes Missi so a couple points I'd like to bring out um on these easement documents and pointing out he was educated on the document the original document complain contains everything like a Soup Sandwich that your easement can be used for multirail roadway drainage and utility e and he was never told what those things actually mean as it pertains to roadway when he contacted when he got all the information got with his attorney and then he contacted Jeff CTS I I think it was Jeff he talked to then Jeff explained it to him what I'm finding out talking to these people through this town is this town staff employees whatever who's been collecting these easements has done a disservice to the residents because I have at least a half a dozen residents that I have spoken to that were never given the actual facts of what they were signing so if and and the attorney can articulate this if you obtain something of value by omitting the articulable facts that is fraud so I would suggest and I know he's looking at it fraud by Omission is that not what it is but point is I would suggest that some of these past easements that you went over and I brought it up at the next meeting you need to go back and make sure the residents understood Mr Manish had no problem signing it when they separated the articulable facts he had no problem signing it he was not going to sign a blanket easement that you could come back later and have 10 feet and say okay now I'm going to take another eight feet for the road you want it 14 foot I think the road they want it four foot for the road and an additional 10 foot for this but the way it was originally worded it was everything together now back to the paving of the roads when they maintain it what you've been maintaining and Grading and I think what Phill is with strengths is after so many years that becomes the footprint for the I can't remember the 2014 um enabling act and 7even years prior from the duck case and I think it's either May of 2024 I don't I'm not sure of the dates or it's um June of 2025 June of 2025 so they've been maintaining it the issue is and you have what you've been maintaining on some of those roads already so and some of those are probably not 10 feet um so I just I would suggest that you go back and you review these easements and and make sure that some of these folks actually understand what they are signing Manisha had no problem once he articulated his concerns and Jeff had no problem separating the two documents so I believe if if I'm not correct he signed two separate ones one for drainage which he had no problems which protects some of his rights because all of you have been in this town you all know and we don't want to be run over by big government so just be very care careful and please please and I'm going to say it to I'm BL the face go back and review those past Seasons to make sure that we're not wronging people that's it anybody else have anything Laura your l on um can and I'm racking my brain and it's probably something really obvious what is an example of a temporary constru eement we actually are striking or proposing to strike the use of construction because all construction easements are temporary easements what's an example um I'm going to turn it over to our two experts on easements by the way for the record with everyone the people that have been collecting our easements in the past are no longer collecting our easements today and the easement process has been refined by what we have done this past year and I would say much thanks to Mr CTS and also since he's survived Mr colong thank you so perfect example of a temporary easement would be when we did the 161st and a road c replacement in Li of the contractor building a temporary bridge over the a canal of essentially blocking the flow path we negotiated with a resident that lives off of 160th north of North Road Cod who had a cut through between 160th to 161st and we put down millings put a fence up everything else he granted us a temporary easement for the purposes of residents being able to access 161st while we had the Culvert out and so people could access TOS okay that's what a temporary ement would be that's it would be yeah somebody granting us an easement during the process of construction um to for whatever purpose whether it be you know use like let's say you want to we're doing Road on work on e Road we need a place to put Rip r we'd approach you and say we need if you had your I don't know where your house is but let's say your house was on eoad I'd approach you say hey tomorrow this 100 by 100 foot area we will repair it when we're done we need a temporary easement to use it it'll be done 90 days so it' be a date effective you know till June 30th of 2024 you would sign it we would sign it it would get recorded or whatever and then at the end of that term then we would you know remove all of our stuff and it would revert back to your property okay that makes sense um and then my other comment is uh Cassie Miss sui brought up a a great historical recount of you know the collection of easements and the explaining of what they mean and it and in people language not in legal language yeah there you go one in people language but also by people vested in this town Jeff Mr Gant you know whomever was Town staff you know and like you're saying using people language U you know and Francine really hit the you know just reiterated that saying that within this past year we've made great progress prior to that not so much you know we had I know one outside contractor for sure the communic to the res residents was not only abysmal it was inflammatory you know and people got all upset um I I would way way much rather see collection of vements by Town employees Public Works director Town admin Our Town engineer I'm I'm not in support of a lobbyist an outside contractor a anybody outside of us because I believe there's way more accountability um and knowledge of total projects and scope and what's all involved that's it thanks Robert yeah I I agree with that uh onea I don't like this first sentence it says easements for additional right of way easements are not right of way so that sentence in my opinion the word right voice should not be anywhere are correct so just easement outside the currently maintained roadway well it's easements for purposes roadway drainage utilities um multi-use trails and temporary work easement so I I just think that per sentence is long and maybe deceiving um but there is right of ways also I me help me understand this Francine or Jeff or whoever like uh Su said he gave four feet for the road was that an easement or a RightWay and then he gave X feet for drainage that's obviously an easement okay there both so people can give easements yes for roads then so the word rideway in my opinion should not be in I I agree with you and I struck it and I said for areas outside the currently maintained roadway blah blah blah I do want to make a point and that is that I think that it might be good to put the definition a simple definition of the difference between an easement and a roadway and an easement is the right to use a piece of property for a purpose it has no ownership vested in it at all a right away is a dedication of land meaning that it is an ownership interest so for a practical example an easan is if I own the front five of something and somebody has to get to the back five and they have a road that's on my property but they have an easement to go back to access their back five correct correct practical but you still maintain ownership of the original person yeah exactly so we just need to make it clear to people on the checklist the ement has no ownership value it's not a transfer of ownership in any way it doesn't change the size of your properly property it only allows if the easement is given to us us to come on to the property to maintain or if it's given like you said to a neighbor to have access or cross access between Properties or drainage between properties but it is not an ownership interest thank you and then adding number seven you already talked about scratching Andor construction easements and just leaving that as temporary easements because yes I crossed that out yeah because the way it's worded you say temporary easement construction eement like what is that a permanent construction easement so yeah just the word temporary easement and this uh where is this sentence no council involvement and easement acquisition process the add number five that's added a number four five five five five and so I guess we need an understanding of the acquisition process when it starts because I talk to constituents all the time about easements you know my understanding of an easement and what we've done and things like that but obviously once staff gets involved or is it when Council votes that hey we need to get this easement for this project or I think that ethically to be prudent you should not talk to people about it oh well I totally disagree I mean your constituents are relying on you for information and to share with them any kind of history when not in the middle and I'm saying not in the middle of a project if it's on this CIP no way right now you don't go talk about a-road easements to people they're in the process of doing it nope but I get questions all the time about different types of easements Trails easements you know like like liability and obviously I point them to staff that's but I still try to give them some questions to ask try to give them a a little bit of understanding that I know so they just don't go in blind and they can ask because a lot of it so much of is it about liability responsibility those are the questions I always get you know somebody's riding their horse across what I feel is my property you know how am I protected and I say well you know you can give an easement for a trail or multi-use Trail and they're like well but what if somebody drives a vehicle across it you know I said well the only way to absolve yourself is if you give a ride away then the town owns the property but you know ultimately an easement you still own everything it's just and maybe Glenn if you could just a quick whatever you know and maybe you haven't researched it lately but the whole recreational trail easement part what how does that absolve somebody that you know the town owns five feet from the Canal bank then I own the rest which is essentially like let's say 20 feet so the horses are riding through my 15 feet what what responsibility do I have to keep that area level and safe since I own it and and how does that fit in mean you as the land owner yeah yeah I own that 15 feet you know the town owns the five feet by the burm MH and so there's you know a lot of writing on private property and I haven't given the town quote a uh recreational trail easement what kind of liability you you would always have the responsibility to generally maintain your property you can't have big sink holes there uh but you don't have any extra responsibility to pave it or grade it just as long as you maintain it in a normal course and what if I did give the recreational easement now is the town responsible to make sure that that area is free of defects I think so that that is probably going to be the case but you want to make sure that you're when you're granting the easement you're making clear what kind of Maintenance responsibility the town may have does our easement say that I can mow it or the town can mow it is what I remember on the language for drainage people can still mow their sell and everything or they can just stay inside their fence and let the town bow it that was what I remember Richard correct me if there's some different wording now I I think we actually I don't want to get deep into this you talk about connecting trails in the future I think we had a conversation the other day that there's a whole lot of work to do on the recreational easement aspect of it prior to actually obtaining recreational easements I typically you have some I I haven't read the recreational easement so I don't know been there or not but typically would have somewhere on there you know who has the Perpetual maintenance obligation and it would show either it's the property owner continues to have the Perpetual maintenance obligation which is how most ements I've ever dealt with have been worded um or it would revert to the town but a lot of times you know it's usually the owner who has to still mow their grass okay we have any public comment on this item yes mayor uh Miss Lakeman hi first you ask them for EAS how many times isoi to ask and's stat any portion of an e used for Road purposes will will title be to the town after prescribed period Len you're talking about was called a prescriptive eement and that's and that's generally I'm trying if it was it's 20 years I think it's seven years seven 95 two that's what she's talking about think after me yeah there needs to be some responsibility under taken by the town there's two different standards one is where the town hassted thead where time period not a lot this [Music] gred municip ons not necessarily this stat this is for those situations it obviously contemplates the situation where and counties establish or maintain a road without necessarily the permission I don't think any Cas it but the implication is and I think the direction that our attorneys have given us is in that circumstance anas we on EAS rather than on that same note if somebody has a fence that's in the and it's been there for 20 years 30 years is that like that can't be mov to make the road is on you know what do you do there um maybe we could talk out outside get into but let me just say if the fence was preventing the town from maintaining a portion of the road and you have to have maintained for seven years let's say there's been a fence there for five years that 95361 is really saying U that you have to be maintaining it how would you prove something be a different situation okay is that all the public comments on this one yes mayor okay all right so to recap this one okay I think this gentleman wants to make a comment okay okay than um uh the gentleman that came and made Five Points in the LA one of the things that he said uh in fically he was explained that the city would never be able the town would never be able to take ownership of the property clearly within about 20 25 minutes there is now an opportunity for the town to take hypothetically um if after you know many years of of road maintenance and so on and so forth there is a way as you said we if there's an easement we would rely on the easement however if there's no easement then there's the prescription maybe one of the things that can be clarified in the easement is going forward that if an easement is granted then prescription notice there would never be a chance that that there would be an opportunity under take ownership it's just a a clear that can be added to the easement worded that if you give the C the if you give the town an easement then it is very clear that the town will only ever rely on the easement for right away and not for and not if there's a uh something that happens down the line where the town wants to expand or whatever they can use description even though there's EAS it would be wonderful if we could do that however we can't tie the hands of future Council so we we can't we we can't write our easement in a way where if some Council in the future wanted to take the land by eminent domain or exercising we we we can't different very different I I understand but scription scription is saying I've given you an easement and so I've allowed you to by the way I have but right I understand where I've allowed you to to go ahead make a road everybody's fine and then 15 years later you say that you say to me well uh we'll do a prescription if you don't agree to something that's that's exactly what I think he is worried about right absolutely him it was hypothetically made clear that that he doesn't lose he he won't ever ownership would not ever be taken away but this is a scenario made very clear that it is plausible so there can be I think legal language to to be adopted not legal language but language might be adopted to clarify that an easan can't be used in the future as a prescription uh that I got it than I see both lawyers waiting toally that doesn't happen if you give something specifically that's what you're giving you know it it's not gonna be later expanded other than some very unusual sign of circumstance like IM in the domain let me you want to wa I want to weigh in on this because I talked to our Engineers about it and um also attorney attorne in Mr tuvia's office when we continue our mapping we will show anyone who gave us an easement the specific instrument as an easement and they will not be included in the 95361 they would not now if somebody wishes to change their easement to dedicate the land to us that is their choice but it would not show up in our footprint that is the approach that was provided to me by our attorneys and engineer may I so is that in writing in our easements I think that's what people want is it in writing not maybe up well en easement is never a transfer of ownership it is only a specific use for the property what we can do on the checklist is clarify that you are only giving a specific purpose use as opposed to any right of ownership yes that's sounds thank you you're welcome all right so to recap this thank you oh you've had El okay go ahead as as that I know there's other easements coming down and weting and you know adding and changing whatever it might be I don't know how many to collect but we're going through stages it might be prudent to uh update update the all the easement givers that this is the new standard this is where the easement is at but I don't know I don't know how that work so Jeff is shaking his head I think they're individual per property is that the problem it's a herculin task well what if yeah is there a problem well you think that Mr CTS is not Mr CTS is not thinking about drainage right now and we do have a very large binder of drainage easements that were executed using not our current template for easement and they were not recorded because they do not have the approp apprpriate form they have to so they all have to be redone um and we are working on that did you have something else it was about the order is there a way to order of the paving of the roads just a quick question I know that you've left it in Mr Gant is there a way to update the residents that this is the going to be the the potential order and then if there's any changes those changes can be can be let us know can you post it on the website maybe that when when work's going to commence or something like that yeah it'll it'll be posted on the website okay thank you all right so to recap this oh I'm sorry I just a quick comment is there an ordinance regarding easements because if you easement is is it a land use that requires four votes if there is and you said you can't tie future council's hands but you can a damn hard for to yes you can to do what the people are afraid they're going to do so if we had an ordinance that said you know somehow that these easements you know it's our intent to to not move forward with prescriptive you know converting of ways we have that ordinance we have a ulc um code section that addresses this and in fact as a result of that recent law suit we actually have to make some changes so we can strengthen we can strengthen some of that we can put in there to at least make them feel comfortable that in the near future nothing's going to happen and pay attention to uh okay so to summarize this item everybody stay with me here let's see if we get this we're changing onea to add to to areas instead of right away we're adding A 1 C temporary easements we are removing the lobbyist from item five uh we are adding a sentence to item five that no council member can be involved in obtaining an easement and I think that's the distinction we looking for Robert not not in educating citizens about ement but in actually obtaining an easement and we are removing the item end or construction easements from item seven and we are adding to the process a clear and concise in Lay language checklist that is initialed by both whoever is doing the soliciting and whoever is doing the receiving that they understand each step of the process from first Contact to signing the ement love it okay everybody good with that that's our direction to council good summary anything else okay okay all right you second my summary thank you okay on to the next item discussion of ordinance 20243 which is uh Town Council rules and boards and committee oh I'm sorry I said sorry uniform requirements were on three for Town advisory boards and committees this is intended to authorize an ordinance that says these are the rules of the road for all advisory boards now you can always have specific advisory boards you can say we want Engineers on this board or we want so many people but this is your a general overview of your basic rules so you just really go through it and says everybody's going to comply with this and all meetings shall be open to the public and if so we can write down under to go line by line paragraph by paragraph or you just want to just think that each person's had the opportunity to look it over so does anybody have any comments yes okay Laura okay want do public comment first sure you I mean different people seem to like it different ways I don't know we're going to have to come to a consensus on that you want to comment after we talk okay Laura go ahead okay um I am on Page 30 and I'm at the bottom 2-13 and it says each member of the Town Council shall nominate a qualified individual so on and so forth so I I struggle with the word qualify IED one because we have so very few people who are actually like hey yeah I'll do this but I think about I'm trying to come up with a good example here so let's say I wanted to put somebody on the fact board you know who is you know obviously fact you're concerned about money and policy and how we spend and how we allocate how far do we go should we go have to go not even go to vet people on these boards let's say I pick somebody who I didn't know that 10 years ago um robbed the bank tax fraud robbed the bank you know had some other thing on their record is that a disqualifier well what what our our vetting process is here so just above that in 2182 you're saying what your minimum qualifications are and that meaning that they have to be a resident and a registered voter so that's the first question do you want everybody that's on all of your committees unless specifically otherwise to be residents and a registered vote that was but that was actually mine because right now we that's in our ordinance is is that they have to be uh residents and I can name you three people off the top of my head and I won't um but I can name you three people that are currently sitting on committees that are not residents of the town so my question to you all in private was who did the vetting on these clearly nobody um because you have people who are not residents so so this is your standard that's your this is a standard we have that is not being followed so it it needs to be followed now your next sentence says you can adopt qualifications for specific boards usually Planning and Zoning or you would say we want an engineer we want so you can add other requirements this is your Baseline this is yeah there already in here though y the requirements are already I mean certain qualifications are already but terms of the basic for you deciding who you're going to nominate the first threshold is you got to be be a high school graduate right no you have to be a registered voter and a resident those are your getting in the door I think that you have to be a town resident not in currently under code enforcement in the town and not currently under any legal action I don't know Laur about the 10 years ago you did something bad I I don't know you know that I don't know about that one but certainly currently in Co in code enforcement in our town currently break uh in some kind of legal action and uh certainly a resident because we already have that and it's not being followed does legal action go from Does it include Town County State I don't know how it would even possibly include country but does who knows International banking whatever I took it to mean the town if if the if you're suing the town or or town is suing you or or you have an active code case you're disqualified you're suing County or the state over something else that's what's that intive Court count again how that how how deep do each of you want to go in vetting your folks well and that takes us right back to the question of how do we get people you know but where are we going to stop the list of sins Andor the vetting that's that's you know I don't want to be punitive but I I want us to follow our own rules I I think it's not currently in code enforcement and not currently in legal action that that that's my personal opinion and okay an open active case basically okay that's just my opinion but that's I just wish to share with everyone if you indulge me for a moment that when you look at code enforcement you must make a distinction between a reported incident and a case correct okay I just wanted to just get that clear that would be you guys that are doing the vetting we make the appointments you guys okay I just want to make sure it's an active case not a reported somebody reported it and and for any action yeah okay thank you phis so I'm sorry goad did you want so on on the code enforcement let's say your case is resolved but you still have an Ask standing lean where you owe the town money you've now complied your violation but you still owe the town 50 ,000 I'm assuming you're disqualified because even though the case isn't active you still have an active lean correct okay that's I just wanted to clarify unless there's been some arrangement with the magistrate that you have five years to pay it or three years to pay it or something to pay it and and you're in the process of that's part of resolving it but if you owe the $50,000 and you said I'm not paying the $50,000 the case is closed but I'm not paying you the money then you're not qualified to well I don't want you making our codes if you're thumbing your nose at our codes I mean that's ridiculous okay that's what I thought you meant yeah phis go ahead so there are plenty of people out there that want to serve you need to talk to them you know there you don't have to reappoint the same people over and over again you know there's people that come to these meetings that want to be involved so you know and no I don't think we should lessen the standards for our people sitting on committee because I think that's what I'm hearing so no I think we need to hold the faac people make sure they have Finance background or understanding I mean Planning and Zoning um Road and trails is of course going to be more lenient um and ulc you know so um there's plenty of people out there that want to serve okay thank you Robert you're late yeah has registered voters been in there all along I don't remember that I mean yeah I was wondering about that too I mean it's an easy check you know because you got to be a resident be registered voter but are we losing some residents that aren't eligible to register to vote that are are great people right it's true you could be a resident and not be a registered voter so I don't know voter should care about the voter and the code enforcement should not be in here that will be weaponized because I can tell you right now somebody doesn't like somebody oh that garage I know that was built without a permit you know how long it takes to resolve a code case for a building an unpermitted structure a long time not for everybody a long time if you don't tear it down right away not for everybody you try to permit it it takes a long time not for everybody and I don't believe code should have anything to do with this it will be weaponized stop it's been weaponized in the past and I don't think think somebody's gonna weaponize a an appointee I mean I think what we're talking about is is oh I I don't and the reason in just that particular case because we know there's unpermitted structures all over this town we know there's code violations probably on 90% of the properties and all it takes is somebody doesn't like that person they start a code case and those things take a while to resolve and I I don't and and that's I don't think that makes that person a bad person because they bought the property you know they bought it 10 years ago that was built 30 years ago but guess what they're responsible for but I think there's a distinction to be made here between somebody who is working with the town who's been told they have a whatever a structure and is working with the town and trying to resolve it and demonstrates they're trying to resolve that that's and somebody who says I don't care I'm not doing anything about 100% but you have to that's the person I don't want is the one who said I don't care I'm going to continue to do to violate the rules of this town but I want to serve on your rules committee that's that's what I'm but how do you work that's that's up to Glen an active code Cas is an active code case regardless of it's a that's up to Glenn to figure out way that adopted it or somebody but I I agree with you somebody thumbs their nose at the process doesn't even show up to the magistrate hearing and whatever continuously violates our codes they they should not be making our rules but somebody that bought a violation 10 years ago 20 years ago well how about this if if you have an active code case where there's been a finding of violations so it's not just I reported Francine and she disqualified is after the magistrate has found okay Francine is in violation and then you would have the discretion to wave that disqualification from serving in your own discretion so the person would really come in front of you and say well I bought this property 30 years ago somebody put a room on it I'm with code enforcement now staff would then say okay they are cooperating with this and then you would decide okay we're going to wave it for that person so that it becomes a case by case I think so is that is that a direction that we should TR to write it in is that what I'm getting I'm seeing nods of heads that that's the way um Case by case basis that's what I say but you're but you're disqualified unless you all decide correct it was some kind of good faith or some reason where you think okay this this person is cooperating with the town it wasn't really their fault they bought it this way we can list a hundred different reasons but you have to you're the judge and jury how about say they're disqualified if they have a code enforcement but that can be waved at our discretion okay like if like if we feel as long as they're showing compliance right and or intent to comply and then that way if somebody tries to weaponize or use it that way that that can say look the guy's cooperating and he's doing whatever stay in there then I think that's the the best situation to allow somebody to explain well why they're not the bad person and for the town to and for our staff to weigh in and say they're cooperating they're doing they're due diligence whatever okay phis did you have somean a good point that you're if you have an active code case you're now putting yourselves or we're putting you in in an awkward spot where you're now making a judgment with as an active code case and that puts you in a tough spot with something coming back for an approval because you could be biased frine yeah you you have to not be biased well how about whoever is doing the vetting in the town whether it's the town manager or the clerk makes the Judgment of whether they're working whether they're resol trying to resolve it or whether they're saying forget it since they're doing the vetting anyhow however you all word it unless waved by the manager on Good Cost unless wav by the manager with good cost yeah so we have to give you our applicants anyway and you've got time to do here I'm sorry pH this she's saying that applicants have to fill out a form and we need to vet them and we will have time to see if they have any kind of code case or talk to them about working through it okay I think I think that's the way to go yeah I mean you're you're responsible for the anyhow that takes us that removes us back we're not involved in it and and it's part of your vetting process you know that's but I would again say let's make sure that the vetting process is getting done since we know right now it's not being followed so whoever was responsible for vetting these most recent appointees did not do their job and that's I assume if you're applying to serve on a Town board you're going to fill out an application that's going to say don't have any active code cases I don't have any litigation town so they're they're pulling that out now Valerie asked a good question I'm getting it on the right and left here this is Stereo um if someone is already serving on the board and then they do one of those things and then they file a lawsuit against the town or then they have an active code case is that something that they are disqualified again unless the manager waves it so is it is it only at the time of appointment or during their whole term in office that they have to kind of comply with those rules clearly if they would move out of town right if they're no longer a resident I would assume they're off the board right right well I mean that's that's at the discretion of the council member who appointed them even if they moved out of town the council member who appointed them is the one who has to replace them if they say I mean I would presume that they say I'm moving out of town you you need to yeah replace me well that's the question in terms of your rules you want a rule that says you only serve if you are a res they must be a res it says it already it's already in there you move out of town you're automatically off the board correct okay and what if you get get a code case are you then automatically off no not if you're doing depending on the town manager there's discretion on that okay did any any public comments on this Miss suuchi okay we're almost there Marge yeah um so I definitely like that if there is a code complaint um with the intent to comply um what brings to mind is you know flouting our our rules and our laws so if you're operating if you're knowingly operating business that's not zoned here you know it and you're doing it and somebody does a code complaint you should not be qualified to sit on a Planning and Zoning Board making decisions so that's biased so I think you guys are on the right track it needs to be put in let them do the extra vetting um if there's an issue with maybe a building and you're trying to get it in and it takes years to find things that might be different maybe that person shouldn't be on a planning and Zing maybe put them on a uh fact committee or the trail committee or something else because we do have other committees so I think that's fairly good I think you guys are on the right track I did have one issue um I don't know if it's p I think it's page 36 in the box and eight in the thing and it talks about the staff and we're fing about Planning and Zoning Board and I I had an issue with this because my recording caught several times we have a town planner and my confusion is does the town planner who's going to be advising our board work for us or work for the developer because several times my recording before the meeting started caught the town planner coaching how to ask questions that they would get approval don't say that because they won't like it do this giving them all little tips to how to get around things so if we have a town planner and he's working for us and he's advising he or she or whoever they are advising our board who isn't as knowledgeable they should be working for us and I'm not sure how that works and how they get paid and I think there was an issue that um they get paid by the developer for the developers permits I'm not sure but we need to make sure that if our town staff is working to educate and to guide our residents on these committees that they're not working for both sides that makes sense so um just need to make sure if we have a town planner that's going to be getting any kind of money from the developer I don't think they would be the right person that should be advising it because perhaps maybe they would be biased to approve that because they get paid more by the other side so that's something I would correct M sish Virginia sish North Road um I thought within the past year or two there was a discussion of allowing land owners to serve on a committee that were not residents that's how we got land owners on committees just looking for you guys to ref get some refresher on that I didn't I thought Simon was the only one and I'm just saying I recall there was discussion about it but Simon was against our rules well but we had Al had discussion and made a change is what I'm say saying so that needs to be researched perhaps it was discussed in the in these Chambers at some point and what happened to that information that discussion I'm just saying you need to get an update on that well obviously you're changing that now the second thing is having served on the charter committee this discussion did come up as well um and so this is a comment on making as an observation do the same rules apply to council they should no I'm just asking you for consistency the next section is the council section so that's my point the next section is the counil here let's be even for everyone and that the big issue during the charter discussions thank you thank you do you want land owners Now's the Time if you don't what no if you need to be a resident and a voter do we the question is do we want to keep keep it as just residents or do we want to allow land owners and residents that's the question residents residents so it could be a rent let's just pull it doesn't matter if they're they're residents matter I mean you're we're just deciding so we're gonna do residents not registered voters we're gonna just residents Nicks registered voters and Nick's registered voters is that are you okay with that yeah and I kind of wanted to comment because ad hoc committees similar to the agric we set the rules for that that one we said you don't have to be a resident so I want to make sure there's the flexibility somewhere in here when we establish a committee for a specific purpose do we want to add the sentence land owners at un a land owner with at council discretion do we want to add that the committee should be residents and land owners at council discretion sure and that way that would be something that would be considered on a case-by casee basis I don't think let's do a I don't I think we have some residents that are pretty active uh so just leave at residents well let's take a vote you're saying just residents the council discretion thing sounds muddy is it going to be a three Vote or a four vote well I mean that would be for us to decide that's I too manyy for you okay residents residents resid residents well I say residents because we're talking about specific committees once again if we create an agop committee for a purpose but I think what I'm hearing from everybody else is they just want residents on our committees like the Agri tourism that's what I'm hearing we had land owners that's what I'm hearing here is that we want to make a role that it's just residents and we're kind of just taking a little poll here right now we've got three just residents okay on the regular committees yes but specific Rob saying no to that or and I'm saying no to that but it still passes three to two so it's just residence and I had a question uh Glenn on the Quorum page 30 B um majority vote of the members present are we allowing people to phone in to zoom no um done what is what is the because that's not mentioned anywhere for committees yeah I would say no it's for Council it's mentioned in Council but not in committe keep it at members pres pres so is is your rule going to be that if a Committee Member is out of town or for whatever reason can't attend can they zoom in phone in or they must be here in person here in person person I guess in person they can still call in zoom in and listen and and listen but they can't vote I don't see why they couldn't participate just the Quorum is established by physical members present I think it's it's what it says I just want to clarify that well anybody can watch the meeting you know I mean whether it's participate verbally they just can't vote or you're saying they can't even participate remotely I don't know I I don't think we should I think that you know when you ask somebody to serve on a committee you're asking them to take on a big responsibility on behalf of the town and the people that are taking that on for you take it very seriously and I I think that they should be there at the meeting if they promised to do that and you made an agreement with them for them to do that I think also that a lot of those committee meetings um require a lot of um physical evidence presentation type stuff that it would be very difficult to participate in a in a meaningful Way by telephone or by distance you know you have to see exhibits and you have to and that's just my opinion on it I I just think they need to be there I agree I think every body needs to be in the chamber to vote including us well we're getting to us next we're just doing committees right now Laura what do you think yes they have to be here physically March okay so they have to be physically present to participate obviously if they want to watch it by whatever our thing is that's anybody can do that so and then my last just a note on page 32 above in section A that's where the Committees are established they're uh go by Roberts Rules of Order it says up there so we don't have any other specific rules for them they just follow Robert's Rules just want to clarify that well and I'd just like to clarify that they're not we're not strictly following Robert's rules in the committees or anywhere we're kind of we're kind of following Robert's Rules Loosely I guess is the is the is the when you get to your point you can always well I mean I I'm okay with doing it this way too but like I just want you guys to no I studied up on Robert's Rules so I have like a little list of exactly how they say to do it I was trying to do it that way and everybody went so that's what maybe we should say Robert's Rules generally or flexible as a basis that's a great yeah F had to so say your rules but if your rules don't cover something then Robert rules is a fallback okay Robert rule is to fallback in case there's something not covered SS rules are this thick and your rules are this thick so they cover a lot more things all right so to summarize this that the well we didn't really make a change but we reiterated the section 2182 which says that they must be members of I mean uh residents of the town we removed I'm not sure what section it's in but that they have to be voters um and and you added that they cannot be in code enforcement or litigation we added that they can't be an legal action or code enforcement actively uh to be determined at the discretion of the Town manager I thought we struck voters we struck voters yeah that's what I I thought that's what I said if I didn't I apologize that's what I okay yeah we struck voters I said I couldn't remember what section people have to be present and you must be present okay so that's the changes for that one okay now on to the fun one guys rules and directions for procedures we have a public comment I'm sorry I'm so sorry I arum oh to uh not allow members on the committee to to vote or if they're not present I think I think you do you're potentially incling a disservice to to the the the sentiment of progress progress is today that we for example somebody who's really dedicated but goes on holiday with his family with their family and then takes time out of their holiday to sit into a meeting to me that says to me that they are actually even more devoted not more devoted than anybody else but they're being e they're going to an extra mile to be a part of making that decision I think you're going to restrict people from being able to to Really participate fully um I think somebody who is on a committee who is present on Zoom not just on the phone in the pajamas but present on zoom and is making and is making uh uh and is being is participating in that meeting I think should have the right to to vote as a part of think it's just a contrarian argument I think progress has happened and we can use these modalities to make progress quicker you know in the case where there's only two people available three people and you need you need a majority if he's not present you don't have zoom you don't get that it's not a quorum though whatever it is I'm just saying you know you I'm just saying you need a consist you need a consensus you you're gonna have a there will come a time where you won't have that because the person has to be present just a thought okay thank you all right on to section four discussion and approval of the rules and procedures for the Town Council and this is our last item ladies and gentlemen so um let's whip through it uh anybody have any comments additions deletions things that they want to discuss in this yes okay put your light on and then you you will be recognized get rid of the light no it really helps me to keep track of everybody so no um I want to I I want to take away the right for councel to be able ble to vote remotely we never did that prior to 2019 um never so I think we need to be here to vote if you want to listen in if you're away or whatever I don't care about that but you need to be here to vote where's that at can you give us a where that is I just you said it was in here no I didn't well when did we make that happen we made that happen in 2019 it was a good portion of this Council I think what happened was during Co [Music] um the state even adopted rules that people could attend remotely it wasn't covid it was prior to covid we had a council member that was already scheduled during for her life when she got elected so um I don't have a it's always been it's always been allowed that the council if the council wanted to you could allow someone in the me of an emergency a health situation uh to vote remotely but that's up to you your rules can say you have to be here just like you just said it was not allowed prior to 2019 okay you needed to be here was on a vacation to Las Vegas and wanted to remotely participate well um Mr demiris was always wanting to okay okay okay stop we're not naming names and we're not and we said no well he was a council member I I would like to get rid of that you gotta find it before we do get rid of it well Francine where would it have been if they voted on it in 2019 it would have been in resolution 2019 on procedures so I'm madly flipping through 201 1965 where's that at it'ss I'm at the end haven't seen it I remember they couldn't add to the quum but they could both yeah I don't see anything about here you go page 58 all right all the way at the end get there good job so rule 12 says absent member participation by telephone conference the member who is absent with excuse May participate in vote by telephone conference when there's a physical Quorum and when the council term is extraordinary circumstances so if you're in the hospital with a broken leg you just had a car accident for years if there's extraordinary circumstances you can allow that but that's always your choice that's the case so I think this is a case by Case by vote well I would agree with that I would agree that's what it says you have to be here but it would be but if I have a car accident the night before and I'm in the hospital and I say I want to participate from the hospital needs to be discussed in the beginning of the meting it says by council members right in the beginning of the meeting it would need to be addressed and the only exception that you have is if it's a quasi judicial you have to be here there's no participation in phone if it's a land change if it's a majority vote like a four or five vote you have to be here and again it's your discretion whether it's an extraordinary circumstance and I'll be honest with you there are some councils that particularly once covid happened they got kind of loose on their definition of what was extraordinary people going on vacations were calling in from cruises which I don't know whether that's really extraordinary but everybody's different and everybody has their own set of rules but I'm hearing you all loud and clear it's got to be really extraordinary okay and while we're in this same area I don't want to butt in but while we're in this same area I don't like 162 I I do I am not okay with coun uh council member comments having votes or any official action taking place at that time those are things that are not noticed no then people put slip things in at the end of the meeting when everybody's tired at tedl at night I want that stricted completely number 16 I want that our consensus you have to do a consensus I understand I we in on that real quick I'm absolutely Robert give me I think give me a second to finish my point okay and then I'm happy to get everybody's opinion on it as I always do um I think that we have an obligation as council members to have the public be notified of everything that we're going to vote on and any official action we're going to take except under extraordinary emergency circumstances when we cannot and to have council members in their comments at the end of the night slipping in that they want to take some action and having it pass is something that has been happening and I'm not okay with it and I know that it's a caused a huge amount of upset among the residents including myself okay Robert what did you want to say um I think official actions can we change that to uh staff Direction because I think Council comments is where a lot of times you form future things for the next meetings when somebody brings something up and we all agree I think it's a perfect place to decide something that you might want on the next agenda to make a request of something to be on the next agenda I think it's the ideal Place hey tonight it just came to me that we need to talk about this let's do it then but absolutely no voting Marge how do you feel it it used to uh really upset me because I mean it's late at night you have no background to justify statements that are coming out of uh the the council member so my feeling is no no okay so can we and Laura your no Laura I want to keep in the fact that we can say Hey you know among the five of us I'd like staff to consider for the next meeting yeah make suggestions on what's going to be the agenda for the next meeting yeah abut not voting but not voting on anything well it's by consent is what it say right um what if we were to say to staff um we would like staff to research the cost of X or or a procedure for doing something it's not necessarily what's going to be on the next meeting it can be longterm like if they need 90 days to execute something by by consensus great I'm in by consensus Francine I'm in so I'm gonna give you live example um earlier tonight Mr Austin brought up a property near and dear to all of us we have eight leans on that property and a number of other code actions in process we've been running fines on the property since 2021 we have as of today roughly $600,000 in fines on the property Jesus we acrew at a rate of something on the order of $1,500 a day and I did a real quick look up of the value of the property um and also um you know whether there's a mortgage on it and so in my comments tonight was going to say did you want to direct staff and the attorney to look at how we would go about determining a policy on when we initiate a foreclosure action townwide yes townwide I'm just using some numbers that I have available because that's like that's looking for direction to be put on the next agenda and then people Noti that's that's not saying let me give you a counter thing of the thing that I'm opposed to that's not saying we've decided that it's at the point where we need to do that I'd like to take a vote right now to start foreclosure proceedings on this property that's what I'm not in favor of okay I just wanted to give you a good example to work with and that's a perfect example because I can give you the counter of the the thing that I'm trying to get rid of is we're going to vote right now in Council comments on something nobody had any idea that we were going to talk about tonight like a tractor it's not gonna it's not going to happen so do we replace official actions with staff Direction I thought you wanted to strike the whole thing no I want it Rewritten in a way that official actions may not be taken under council member com comments other than instruction to staff upon consent of the majority of the council or something along those lines okay I like that okay the official ACS may not be taken under Council comments however staff Direction maybe other than staff Direction upon consent by the majority of the council yeah and and can and other than that time at the end of a of a council meeting for in our comments for Council to ask for things to be put on the agenda or during a council meeting when we say this needs to be on the next agenda when we all decide that by consensus what is the um Avenue for a council member to decide that they that that they would like something on the agenda does it have to be initiated at a council meeting in public in open or can you do that during your agenda review with staff or you're meeting with staff what what is the uh I want to know what the I think we still putting in our comments at yeah I mean that's a great question as to you know Francine is setting as the manager her responsibility to set the agenda and um but if she doesn't have Council Direction on what should be on the agenda it's really us that sets the agenda not is it the mayor's duties to work with the manager and set the agenda I have been but so just refly I think one of the things Len you haven't been at a lot of meetings but one of the things that Elizabeth and I used to do after a meeting so used to try to figure out if there was more than one okay and if we had more than one person that said it did we have three and was it something that we can all benefit by getting it on the list so we used to do like a little debrief and then I don't know if you remember but we started saying do we have a consensus you know and we used to ask the mayor when an item came up like that could you get us a consensus so because a lot of times there were differing opinions and without the consensus you know so here's what I'm trying to avoid right now I'm I'm following the path of Leaf's resistance which is to follow what's been happening under the last two Mayors Laura and Robert which is that I met with you the day before the agenda was released and we discussed what was on the agenda and we set the agenda and we've been doing that and when when we needed to include Glenn we did I believe we had one meeting without him just you and Jeff and me and Mr glant one with Glenn for the council meeting however I'm not sure that we want to keep that precedent that the mayor alone since we don't have a strong mayor in this town is the one that gets to determine what's on the agenda but I'm interested in hearing what and I want to make sure that there is an Avenue for the other council members to get things that they fer on it so if that Avenue is only available to them at Council meetings I want to make sure that they're fully aware of that or that that's outlined in here I guess is what I've never directed staff to put stuff on the agenda ever if somebody brings up something that they think needs to go on the agenda like a policy or something like that you know I always take anything anybody says under advisement because everybody comes you know we go into these free flowing conversations and some good ideas come up so I try to listen but in the council meetings if a topic comes up I really would like if you could give us a consensus to move forward on it or not because for instance let's just take an item earlier tonight PVE what we have 10 feet versus pave what we have what we're grading I mean you know that one would need a council direction that one would need the vote you know whereas yes get sure make sure you get all the easements for Paving that one is kind of clear I don't know if I make any sense with that the last two Mayors they got consensus yes mostly well what we had in the back of the agenda was a whole to-do list you know for future meetings this is on the list yeah and then I think it's you know the town manager and the town attorney figuring out what can we bite off this one right and then but things pop up and I I think uh it's important that you know we all are looking at the list but when the mayor meets with you to understand okay what are we chewing off of this l list CU it's all open to be on the agenda if it's on that list in the agenda everybody knows it's coming someday and you know things need some but my point is sometime things pop up boom and then Francy knows I gotta get this out here I got to make a decision right status quo yeah we we'll keep it status you may I yes please no I don't agree because I've been left out of this process for the past couple of years okay because of the list so um I think that all council members should talk about what's important to them and if they can bring it up at a next meeting or at least a future meeting that that's important to me because you know I I see other things getting done and then things that are important to me and my constituents are getting ignored I think that we just determined that in your comments at the end is an appropriate time to bring up something that you want on the future yeah everyone has that opportunity to do that yes okay um we're GNA put that item back in the agenda but this is a discussion meeting right and we know that we have a jam-packed May 7th with all this stuff coming back right and that's why we have a May 21st to talk about drainage separate I had one other note of caution that I found here that um that uh comes back to my having served on committees um I think we need to be careful what page um it's it's not on a page it's a note I wrote to myself with a blue sticky note which means it's something that I wanted to talk about whereas red means it's where an item began um uh I was always concerned about Council Presence at advisory committee meetings um not when there was one council member present but when there was more than one council member present because there was Sometimes some interchange that made me uncomfortable as a Committee Member um of you know that looked a little bit about discussing something prior to it being voted on by Council so I don't know if that's something that needs to be looked at or if anybody else had the experience of that making them uncomfortable but I just wanted to bring it up I agree I want to sit back in the wall uh against the wall for some of the um meetings that we've had and if there's other council members in the speaking then um I think that's a problem I think if you want to watch the meeting but I don't think you should be giving your opinion to The Advisory board so do we add a clause that says Council me Members may not speak but not they attend but not speak at an Advisory board meeting is everybody okay with that if you remember wait a minute oh I'm sorry go ahead if you remember correctly we had a u person removed from the committee because of their interference with other people okay Laura is not okay with this have we just squashed free speech so committee is meeting I'm sitting in the back attending and there's a missing gap of information and I come up in public comment and say during period x tox you know this is what happened I'm not rendering opinion I'm just filling a gap um isn't that up to staff to do not if they don't know it well how do we know you know it so that I think my conversation here is with the mayor um and I'm I'm speaking on free speech I I'm not quite sure I buy into this totally it's a Sticky Wicket I mean it really is a Sticky Wicket because if there's a back and forth exchange then that's clearly a sunshine violation and that's just let hang on okay that's clearly a sunshine violation I mean so I think the easiest fix is you can attend but not talk but I get what you're saying um and I don't think it's our place to provide background information it might be our place to stand up and say staff could you please provide this information that that you want them to know um but I I really think that in any kind of a back and forth interchange with another council member in the room particularly if they're interchanging too just I know it's made me really uncomfortable in the past it's made me very uncomfortable because I felt like it was planning or setting something up um maybe it's something we need to think about a little bit more you need to think about Glenn of how it could be worded do you get you get what the point the two points are because I think they're both valid points and the the tough part is you know yes you want to speak you want to fill in the Gap but then another council member then speaks and fills in another Gap then you have the sunshine little question that now you're both discussing correct your points of view and and I I again I've struggled with this for years with multiple councils because on the one hand The Advisory Board members are supposed to be independent and make their own decision and they're human beings and a council member shows up you carry more weight than Joe citizen you just do um and so are you now unduly influencing the committee other side of that coin is because of your role you have more information than the average citizen and are you contributing something positive to that so there is no easy if I had an easy answer I'd say it you know uh certainly if one sorry if one person speaks then shouldn't but then that's not really fair to the other whoever jumped again first right there's no easy answer so it's it's perception also it appears to be steering the committee depending on what's coming out of the council member's mouth so I I think we're more than welcome to come in but actually I believe I was not in the room but something happened to Marge Marge was not allowed to participate because one of the their council members was already speaking and actually they asked her to leave which I don't think that's very freedom of speech either and she had every right to be in this room as a council member listening to what was going on the other council member had no business speaking okay hold on March yeah um when the um First Council was formed um back by by um uh Matthew Lipman it was stated that the council members could attend the meeting listen only and not participate not give advice not give uh any um any coaching or clarifying of of any kind you know uh wait until you get back to uh the the meeting where the report is given or when you meet with the uh manager and then at that time clarify any any confusions thank you Robert yeah I think if there's more than one council member in the room then neither of them or none of them should speak but if there's only one council member coming to the meeting and um there's something that whatever they feel like they want to get up and speak they're they're a citizen like everybody else and I think they deserve that right but I understand the sunshine what you're saying Glennon I would support if there's more than one council member yeah in fact a million years ago when I was first on the fact we're talking I don't know 2014 what a long time ago um there was actually a council member that like that was his committee it was Ryan leang that was his committee and he came to every meeting like at that point in time I guess count each council member had a Le they were Lea onto a committee so he came in fact to every meeting um but he never he never participated that way um Laur would you be comfortable with that the council that that the other C that if there's one council member that you're welcome to speak if there's two council members in the room you you just can't participate and I guess if you feel like there's something egregious that's being done you'll need to pull a staff member aside and say need you to tell them about period a to period z i I mean would you feel that your freedom of speech wasn't being trampled on if you if you had that opportunity to go to sta you know say hey Francine can I see you over here or whoever is in charge can I see you over here and and say what you think needed to be are you feeling like that's okay I could see where that would be useful I could see where that could be really distracting and I could see where it would turn into a great game meaning fact me I show up somebody else is out in the wings you know another council member I leave the room the other council member runs in I mean you could have some fun with this if you really wanted to you know take it down that street of ugly but you know um I kind of think we should just be allowed to come sit be quiet agreed I think so it it could I will put it you this way if something dire was happening and Francine or the attorney is sitting here yes I would pull them aside dire they could I'm sorry to interrupt but Francine could grab us too if one of us is there and hey can you come here let's you know help me give me the background on this like that Mar just remembered that from the initial meetings that would be great okay so we need to add that I would always encourage everybody to talk a lot to their appointees because I think you know they represent you um and so lots of times when you watch meia an idea tell your appointee right they can really dive why intimidate the people that you have chosen you know the five of us chose five great people oh I'm not saying in the meeting for their independent thought yeah yeah whatever but I think it's important that the C the committee members also that that this is another thing I have on my Note here um is that the committee members realize their OB their responsibility to report back to their council member I communicate with my committee members great great yeah as and I communicated with my council member when I was a Committee Member but I just want I think it's super important for them to have an open exchange um all right and the last item was stricken I did have a question on this other than what we've covered go ahead all right page 42 42 two -23 you're back away I am okay section A1 letter B each conduct themselves with dignity so you know again I think dignity can be interpreted especially when you're up on the deis um but my question is I'm outside these four walls I'm at somebody's party I've had one too many shots of tequila and I jump in their pool fully clothed but I didn't spill my drink so you know am I a council member conducting myself with dignity you know am I out being a pole dancer am I out you know you know making extra money on the side I'm when does my council member hat come off and when does it when is it warn does it doesn't I disagree I'm a human section is Town Council meetings yeah exactly it doesn't talk about outside Behavior but there are references to our Behavior both in and outside of council certainly but that the the section you're referring to is it during a council meeting so and again my question is once I am outside of these four walls and I am not conducting Town business and I am nowhere near anybody in this town if I'm going to jump in somebody's you behave badly yeah of course I can that might not be somebody else's definition of Behaving Badly you know it is it correct that the these rules are for in these four walls these well or when we're out in public when we're at the parade when we're atah when you're representing the town when we're representing the our official capacity right yeah okay so you going to add some language that says in your official capacity when you're representing the town when right because I could see in our official capacity it says that already the question is is it confined to these four walls or does it apply if you could visit another city and you get up because you want to say something at a council meeting does it apply then if you're if you said stand up and say hi I'm Anita Kan I'm the mayor of lockah hatche groves and you're represent that I'm representing myself in my op icial capacity if I stand up and say hi I'm Anita Kan I live in the western communities then I'm not representing myself and and and screw you I mean if that's what I want to say as Anita Kane well then that's Anita Kane who lives in the Western Community saying that but as the mayor of Roxi grow I can't say that so if you say I'm sorry Glenn if you say you know step up to the mic I'm Anita Kane I'm from the Western Community screw you and then someone tags you as Mar foxi groes she just sits screw you you know what what again were you representing the Groves no you were representing Anita of the human being corre so you know we shouldn't be that's okay yeah absolutely okay as long as I don't represent myself as being the May there was another speaking of vague language which that is um but that clears it up there was another section that talks about politicking who's G to decide what politicking is are you're talking about on page 46 I am okay because my definition of politic and Lara's definition of politicking and Cassie's definition of politicking may be extremely different and I think you're opening up a vague can of worms there that is likely to cause a lot of issues I'm sorry 55 I have a lot of notes I'm sorry yeah so do I you're the mayor somebody says point of order you're politicking you're the mayor you'll decide whether it's point of order or not it's your thanks Robert but I mean that's how rules enforce right point of order you're violating a rule right mayor say okay come back on track or whatever okay I don't I don't see it now it jumped right out at me when I was when I was reading it but I don't see it now it's seven points well it's seven point .6 and 7.7 on page 55 7.6 says um you have to refrain from advocating the election or defeat of a candidate for public office blah blah and then 7.7 talks about um disruptive behavior and advocating the election or defeat of a candidate that's not no it's not yes I mean that's I see that but I saw that is not what I am talking about I'm just trying to remember where I saw the word politicking and I thought who the heck's going to Define what politic it I'll find it don't worry about it it's in the beginning where is it page 40 the two bullet points page 40 no consensus no politicking Ah that's page 40 page 40 describing what it's not part of the ordinance or resolution that's not part of the resolution okay okay I'm better off with not being part of the resolution Advisory Board you just read right no they want to add that that's where rule 16 is what change of read on page 59 but the word politicking isn't in the ordinance it's described you know more specifically okay it says it's in the boards so it does say it I don't see it but maybe you can double check that Glen because I don't see it so I'm sorry yeah I mean 16.3 talks about don't advocate for election don't wear clothes so I guess that's what we're defining politicking as that's I think just was wearing a V for Sam t-shirt in Shapers I got it okay Robert did you have something else oh you just segue right into my vote for Sam t-shirt how can we tell somebody what they can and cannot wear very good I think it's on the day don't think no it says here specifically that people can't do it as part of the audience yeah I don't think that that's legal no I don't think so either I think the audience could do what they want I think us up here need to be respectful of the town it's it's a little more difficult when you're talking about the audience you could declare Town Hall a campaign free zone I we have I don't know if you've done that if you've done that then you can have a rule that if someone comes in with a t-shirt they've got to go turn it inside out you know now that's if that's he's getting ready page 55 does start with 7.5 where it says that a person has to state his or her name and address then I thought legally they don't have to do that F you say that every every town ask people for their name and address and uh that question always come up can you acquire it if they decline you can still listen to them because you're not limited to people that are in town I can be from so it's F change sh to we request that each person addressing the council request yeah I think it's just yeah sematics there just I don't want us to get in trouble because somebody pins our ears back and say tried to make me do this and then in the wearing apparel um it says anybody addressing Council cannot wear anything about wear clothes or whatever of the other K so we are actually stifling somebody's free speech by doing that but Glenn you said we declared if you've declared this a campaign free zone you can do that a campaign free zone yeah if you if and Francine is telling me that at some point the council that has been done in the past yeah it was adopted as a campaign free zone so a campaign free zone means you can't campaign in town hall so is Cassie allowed to come up wearing a t-shirt in bling make 45 number 47 I mean you know is that or is it just applying to us right well that's a very good question I mean the way it's written now sorry yeah that that would be a violation unless you want to say only relating to town just say Council well it says wearing apparel that conveys a message of Express advoc advocacy or a person Town group of persons yeah I don't know about the group of persons just could say you know just about the locks had Democrats elect Republicans you know elect liberals conservatives those are groups I understand but so what this is basically intended to say is that people can't come in here saying a vot wearing a vote for Sam t-shirt while Sam's sitting here running for re-election or Sam's sitting out there trying to run for election that's what it's intended to say but it's written so broadly that it brings into question the the the free speech issues that law is bringing up if somebody wants to wear Donald Trump or Joe Biden or Sam Smith t-shirt out in our audience they have a legal right to do that that's a right to free I'm hear say you want to narrow that just it needs to be narrowed it needs to be no it needs to be narrowed too and and I think it's appropriate that the people in our audience don't campaign either for a candidate I think I think so it would say advoc advocacy for a council lockah Groves Town council member they can wear one for somebody else just not C anybody else they want to so Glen that's cool to clarify that and I think you might start that phrase with because this has been declared because Town Hall has been declared a campaign free zone yeah that's important so does that mean candidates forms can't be held here have you ever held one here before yeah just this past year one was held here okay but I'm gonna look at your campaign free zone resolution or whatever establish it that need to be twe yep we did them in 2015 too but remember when a candidate I I if and when we vote on a candidates form as an officer of the LGL I have to recuse myself but and I will at that time but I will make the statement that when the candidates form was held here it was not a Town Event it was the lgla using the facility requested from the council that they could use the facility and then they use the facility so it no longer be it is no longer a Town Council event or meeting or whatever does that make sense yeah make sense and then so then if people want to wear Sam Smith shirts they can wear Sam Smith shirts or oh or Joe Brown Shirts yeah Sam and Joe now my last comment is in section 7.5 the last sentence talked about any person making obscene inflammatory blah blah blah and that got deleted and then we added 7.7 and it says the same thing but then it says who is advocating the election or defeat of a candidate why are you narrowing it down to just the person who is advocating election or defeat I think it should probably just needs to be I think 7.5 should stay the way it is and 7.7 should be scratch 7 s yeah gotta because that should apply no matter who or what you're talking about it should be right no absenti slanderous def to unless you're directed towards the attorney because you know that's yeah well it says while addressing the council so you're allowed to address the attorney say that to you that's all saying what's a 100 what's a 100 lawyers at the bottom of the city a good start right yeah okay thank you thank you madam chair that's it you're welcome anybody well no I just wanted to clarify something sorry that go right ahead that um page 54 at the bottom sentence we're not going to be reading comments that are emailed in or or handwritten um cor somehow they will be I guess communicated to us to review right so we'll see them but we won't be reading them out loud we won't be putting them in the minutes but they'll may be made available for public record requests so they will be part of will they be emailed to us Wella depending on when they came in I guess prior to the meeting yeah they're emailed to us no I'm saying prior to the meeting so so I just just wanted to public comment note that change okay here comes Cassie with a public comment and then we're gonna wrap this up she's got a whole book of public comment you got three minutes so I'm glad you guys have some of the same comments I had so try in on page 42 you have a town council meeting generally and the brown holes number two members of the Town Council come not also one another C make personal text on one another of the Town Council and I think you need to add your the public while representing the town yeah agreed personal Texs on the public we or SN snorky remarks well Define snarky you like when you're out representing the town you should be held to a higher standard um the next page 43 um thank you Robert for bringing it up that was brought up about the addresses and that people with confidential records um so I'm glad you check on that one okay page 53 I think it's important that comments we hear all your comments about things you like and you know I don't know whatever it is but I think at the Town comments is when you as Council should be able to set the agendas and it needs to be done I'm looking at the duties of the mayor and it's not her job to set the agenda she's administrative and I'm looking in the town Charter if we want to change that perhaps then we can have a charter committee and change it uh I didn't vote for the staff I voted for you guys I'd like to know what's going on we don't have anything in this town that's is requiring that much of an emergency that can't wait for two weeks to be put on the agenda or to be brought up um it kind of leaves the public in in the dark and lacks transparency so I think maybe during your Council comments you all should have notes of things that you want to see on the agenda or have a list of coming up of what should be discussed so we know um next one on page 54 um there's people in this town that can't make the meetings they're invalid they can't they're in a wheelchair they can't drive whatever I do deliver stuff to them it's very important that they be able to email and I know it came through covid and it opened up a lot Avenue but comment should be read into the public there's people that might be out of the country and have had a topic and emailed in and they want that comment read because they can't be here physically so taking that away I think limits What the residents can participate in their own government and we do have people that can't make it here but couldn't if you're delivering things to those people couldn't they then just give you I don't have time to go to all those people I work a full a full-time job I'm on call 24 hours a day I don't have time but I do know there are people like that so don't limit their participation um the other thing about um thank you for addressing wearing apparel and everything I was saying that's constitutionally protected type stuff thanks for bringing that up you guys mostly did we think alike we're all thinking about the same um just kidding that's about personal attacks um that was it so thanks so much we pretty much adopted everything perfect thank you okay we're g to do our you got all your direction on that you got a lot of Direction on that direction um okay we're gonna do our uh staff member comments oh look there's there's an order right here Laura I'm gonna go by this order this time you were first last time but I'm gonna put you on the spot again oh Staff first I'm so sorry Francine what do you have to say a lot less than I was going to say given the hour um yes by the way we did not make any deals on tree mitigation what we said specifically and I know it was said because I said it if you want to give us a donation we'll happily take it the reason we brought it to the council is because the town manager does not have the ability to accept more than 25,000 so we didn't want to work on anything with them if you didn't want to accept a donation from them there still is an issue of tree mitigation and as Mr Kurt said we will be trying to get conservation easements and more trees so I just wanted to give you that information while it's fresh it's going to be coming to a council meeting when we have that information we have more than one conservation eement that has been destroyed so those will be coming back as a separate topic um but they're going to take a little while to percolate sorry about that um so we do run a lot of leans on code enforcement in the quarterly reports I asked them to put a list um not necessarily of names and addresses but a list of what we're running findes on so you can get an idea because we have some pretty hefty fins so I think we got Direction speaking the other day uhuh could you and I'm not asking for names but could you a list of the running and also what they're in what they're in code enforement for that yeah what they're in for now for instance the one one that I'm mentioning that we have eight leans on since 2021 and still Active cases going on um we need to come up with a policy at what point we want to go ahead and look at foreclosure yesterday oh I know I know I understand so put that on the next agenda yes um think about what your thresholds are so when we come back or you know shoot me a note about that um by the way our Charter is section one of our code of ordinances we will go ahead and pull it out separately and use the state law as the charter right above that but it's section one of our of our code um and then um great news so far we've gotten comments back from various places that we sent our ear to and this week we received back um our comments from the Department of Commerce which is the big one and they have no objected no objections for our comp plan but they did have a number of recommendations so we're working with um Tanya and Caitlyn and so on to bring those comments back and hopefully we're still on track for a June um um second reading approval yeah we see those recommendations well would you like to have a um yeah I can email them to you um they're a little bit out of context you know but I'll email the actual comments to you did you want to have a workshop before we did a second reading or do you want to go straight to Second reading I thought you emailed us the comments I think I did but we've gotten comments from lots of different places out of the loop on this so I instead of having a whole workshop I'll just spend some time with you privately to get brought up to speed okay so I went as fast as I could I'm leaving everything else out and again in the regular agenda we do put an agenda item in there that shows like hopefully three months of meetings this week um on the 19th we have the um elementary school carnival um Public Works has a tent and also a council member has a tent um and I know that um Amber has talked to each of you the setup is at the school between 3 and 4:00 they have a space for us phis has seeds MTH and containers for us to be able to do the same type of thing that we did in the past yeah and time was it I'm sorry 3 to 4 3 to 4 set up uhhuh and um you can take the your car on the field during the setup or anything you need but it then has to be moved off by 4:00 and the tents need to be weighted down and that is the short version of that um I know that we've had a lot of great ideas on you know inviting different groups from town to to join the tent um up to you whatever you want us to do let us know I can have Public Works do the setup or you guys could do the setup whatever you'd like I would like Public Works to set it up myself I mean um I I can be there I cannot be there doing the setup that's getting my animals but it starts at 4:30 right yeah I I can certainly be there for about an hour or so um and then I have other obligations but I can be there for some portion of it maybe we should do like shifts or something sh we'll we'll have 4:30 to 7:30 I think it is it I have obligations to so I'll be there 4:30 to 5 or 5:30 the latest there six yeah I can be there any Gap I need to fill in about being The Late Shift Robert do you mind I can do that the T yeah did I hear you say want us to have like chips or something we're gonna have overlapping ships is what we're pizza pizza and beer but I think we the kids will love it I think we just self set up a schedule that covers it the whole time okay so there's going to be two tents the the um the seed tent and the what other tent no just the just one tent I'm going to use the one we have and have Public Work set it up and by the time you get there your tent will be there Phyllis can we work directly with you to bring your stuff over yeah you don't have to set it up if can get it to us we'll go ahead and get it set up for you do you need my tent or do you have a tent no we have a tent and then we'll just walk into a setup booth at 4:30 is that the one that Katie is doing no she's that's for lgla different this is Christie that's a different thing so Anita and Laura first shift March 2nd May 3d you're doing the whole time right doing as much as she can uh what day is it it's Friday yeah to six be there by okay all right anything else besides the probably be there early and leave early okay okay that's fine all right all right those are my comments thank you thank you a lot done tonight appreciate it thank you Mr tvia oh I've got is that a reminder that you know annually you all have to take a 4-Hour course on Sunshine public records and ethics uh the first one is coming up this Friday uh we're presenting up at the Treasure Coast so if anybody wants to go to Fort Pierce and get their four hours out of the way uh let me know and I'll send you the invite from the Treasure Coast League it's again Indian River College in Fort Pierce you're charging $20 for lunch uh the league of cities locally will have theirs in October they're talking about the end of October um and then of course you always have options to Palm Beach uh the Florida League of cities and other organizations FSU usually puts on the 4-Hour course online so just to remind you have the whole year to get it done but um we happen to be doing the first one this Friday thank you for letting us by zoom and oh and and this whole presentation we're going to put this on your agenda for next week so you or next meeting so you'll have the whole presentation I am not going to talk four hours at that meeting I'll probably do five minutes and say refer here because it's supposed to be pretty comprehensive so you can go through it and fall asleep and then the next night read another section and go to sleep and by the end of the week you'll get through the whole thing great didn't we just do that in February we did we did a I did a I did a present we did a presentation so but only because we have this whole comprehensive thing why why sending to all of our clients not costing any more money we already done so why don't you all get it and if you have questions just call but if counts if we do that no no you have to actually sit through four hours of somebody talking do it online too you could do it online like I said the Florida league has it online uh pomes County League will do it at the end of October in person back to listen to that ethics video one more time the ethics thing drives me nuts I'm not doing the ethics part I've got two other lawyers doing the ethics I'm doing sunshine in public records I took I took the fun topics okay thanks so does the February class that we sat through online for four hours count for this year or are we starting over they did it for this year right February this year so if you did it already if you did four hours already this year you're good calendar year okay great thank you all right that's all for me no report nothing to say no ma'am Richard not here so I'm guessing you want to speak on Richard's behalf do you have anything any closing comments I'm good I want to go home okay got it all right now back to you good stuff is Richard Galant poke your head back in the door please I that congratulations on your appointment that you were talking about earlier um please take pictures and send them to us okay yay congrats um if my fellow council members could turn back to page nine sorry are we there okay looking at the paragraph that says funding of CIP go to the last paragraph the where it says until and unless those donated funds are assured that sets my hair on fire I would rather see the words be received with a sign agreement any thoughts if that distinction is concerned to you it doesn't bother me I did you know and and again I I think this was Miss sui's comment about pay for play Anita I I really am going to give you $10,000 can you do X you know it it it would have for for my comfort it would have to be received in a signed agreement yeah yeah we're gonna until a signed agreement is is received funds are received yeah okay receive so anyway that's that's just me thinking out loud yeah so is this where we would say consensus among the five of us for that or is this think that we have a consensus among the five of us object to that change okay it's just direction of Staff it's not it's not a vote just a consensus that we're giving direction yeah okay um and then this is a question for my fellow Council people uh when I have my meetings with Francine there is Jeff in attendance and Richard and I like it I find it useful thoughts comments questions I don't know how your meetings are stru I have Jeff and Richard um there was one meeting where we had Mr Gant on the phone actually no actually you came that one just because there were some issues that we felt might involve leval but I mean Mr gotta you were looking at me got the G right that's good thinking about him this is way past my bedtime by the way um yeah well we had Mr tvia present because there were some potential legal questions but I think that a no offense Glenn but anytime we can save on legal fees that's a good thing to do um and that agree I think that um that Francine and Jeff and Mr Galant are yeah vastly capable of of providing the background information that we need in most cases in fact I think they did an exceptional job on this report I mean a really except clone good and and I bring this up only because there was you know I think it was last year ging and harassment about secret personal meetings and wasting staff time and you know things about having um you know having people you know misappropriation or misuse of funds but you know as a council member you have to know certain things the five of us are leadership roles so I just wanted to be clear that you know these other staff members are in these meetings and to me it's invaluable so that's that's all I'm saying I think that's what we said when we were talking about that section was that every every council member is entitled to a pre- agenda meeting with yeah absolutely staff they feel they need I think that the question that created the conflict was that there was a feeling or a perception that there was more than just pre-council meetings going on but I don't want yeah let's not ruin a perfectly lovely meeting with a pissing match at the very end okay thank you uh I have a comment not if it's I have a comment not it's a pissing match one Laura are you on anybody I have a comment about meetings with the town manager but next go ahead well I'm commenting on Laura's comment you're your com this is your comment time okay orur are you done then yes is she done said I already said yes oh all right so going back to that I feel that the town manager's time is very very vital on Monday mornings and Tuesdays to get the town going for the week any business needs to start off so I don't know when you guys are having your meetings I think they need to maybe be wrangled in to about an hour and I don't think they they should be first thing Monday morning so that's my argument about that and when you're spending the town attorney's funds every single week the tuna 210 an hour yeah the rest of your council members need to know about that so and again the comment was so my second thing is Coastal vegetation getting super tired everybody out there call Coastal if you're gonna take trees down you know ahead of time you're having your tree company come in you were allowed either six or 12 cubic feet right cubic yards cubic yards container depending on if you have one house or two houses so basically everybody has six cubic feet we all have to have major tree work done at least once a year if you go by my house I've got a big gigantic pile out there they know about it they t Ted me today I expected this however um Jillian and I figured out it's somewhere around 40 cubic yards this is a tag for 240 cubic yards this is almost $2,000 it costs $8 a cubic yard to take away anything additional call Coastal it's the cheapest way to go and look at your tag if you think your tag is wrong call Coastal or call your town manager and have them come out and check it out because they are supposed to be picking up vegetation okay um talked about the carnival I would like to see we haven't had a code enforcement officer in this room in a long time we were you had somebody I think it was Andrew went to some of the plazas to make sure at least if nothing else they hand cap um we've actually been doing code enforcement in the commercial plazas on Southern Boulevard I can check on what we've written up but we have a number of violations because I could tell you it's only the matter of putting up a sign so the sheriff can enforce at least for people that are disabled for those spots um but I would like to see code enforcement here at least one time a month giving us an update next next meeting is quarterly reports so they'll be here andfor will be in the building that be who do we have for code enforcement now two part time two part time one is Mario and one is um his name is D'Angelo compo he's a young kid he um is here over the weekends and Monday so he catches the weekend action okay so sign code yes so let's talk about my election sign code sign code right somebody from Mayo sent in actually it wasn't just them but somebody decided my campaign signs were all of a sudden illegal after using them for two elections so in order not to go townwide with this and go after every resident I went out after having both my boobs taken off two weeks after that and took all my signs down okay the attack was not on me the attack was on the residents that support me that's how I look at it so let's get this c town since it's been brought up over the election let's get this town code um sign code whipped into shape so our attorneys are working on it I received a first draft I sent I don't know three rounds of comments over um I haven't seen a second draft yet the issue with our sign code is that it is content driven and it needs to be more structurally driven so hopefully she get it back and it's unconstitutional it is right so how was it you know that everybody that had my sign up was going to get a letter so that is selective code enforcement that needs to stop and that was also during an election so um can we bring that up at the next meeting do you have any issues back at the next yeah I don't know if we can well how long has your company I've heard that they've been working on it for a couple of years now yeah it was I think was presented a year or so ago it was presented it's been we got direction we made changes a lot of as um council member Shore said lots of stuff comes up it went to the side and it went back up on the deck before any um enforcement action okay because what I'm seeing is a lot of these flags and all and I don't believe that those are in our sign code and they're all over Southern Boulevard and all over our town we we have been building a list of the the signs that do not comply so that when we talk about sign code we could actually look at what we have all around town and decide well I think we've yeah let's just get the sign code we've already basically made what what the town folks wanted so manure what are we doing about The Dumping and spreading of minur it's getting worse and I'm not talking about our vendors well if you could give me some addresses I'd appreciate it um we have a couple code cases going on right now but what are we doing I think what we need to do is possibly put a limit on size of acreage or how many your horses you have um regarding spreading manure because if you have 40 horses and you're spreading manure on five acres that's a that's not a good thing for your neighbors well I'm not really a big fan of spreading we do have a limit we are bringing back and Jeff is working on the livestock we have a draft of it um and we'll look at number of horses and size of property so and that's like the last thing I want to do but that's how the RV thing started someone didn't live in this town bought a property in this town but 20 RVs on it now it's basically the same situation with somebody with 40 stalls so uh and they don't live here either so it's like don't poop on my town okay um the workshops prior to the meetings I would like these our residents to be able to talk about whatever they want that was the whole idea of the workshop people that can't stay for the whole meeting they could come to the meeting from 6:00 to 6:30 and not just talk about non-agenda items they should be able to talk about the agenda if they want to or not the problem with that is that's a time for us to answer back to them and it's not really appropriate for us to talk before a meeting about it have an interchange I mean I guess they could say what they want to say we public comment but then that defeats the point of those interchanges there's supposed to be an interchange where we're responding to questions about non-agenda items if you have people bring up agenda items then why revisit it again 15 minutes later in the meeting I mean it's just it's using time for people to bring up something that's not on the agenda that we either we missed or we're not seeing or whatever and then they can make a public comment later on as well all right well this town's residents were always stifled and I feel that if someone can't make it to sit through the meeting till 10:00 at night then they should be able to speak of it and I would like to have a better understanding of your duties because I did talk to Glenn regarding going over you know the decorum for the Town Council but I think I need and maybe I could just do that with you but um I need a better understanding of your duties like how do we as a council direct you to make you the best manager that we can I think we've had a disconnect there for a while and not with you I I have to be careful what I say because I don't want it to end up into a a pissing match so um but anyway I think actually it wouldn't hurt for us to have a better understanding of what you do and how you do it and if you could just give us a brief at the next meeting when we go over what we do I I would appreciate that are you offended by that not even a little bit but I think you I didn't mean it probably make be just a home meeting about that because you know I mean I think it will probably I'd be H my contract requires us to do a SWAT analysis on how the town did in a year so we take a look at what we've been doing for the whole year it gives you an idea of what I do but I feel like if you talk to me regularly you'll know what I do and when you come and you visit me you see all the action that goes in and out of my office well partially and I'm like never not multitasking so um my number one thing that I'm doing is I'm handling incoming and still trying to get the trains moving on time now that sounds very Ana like an analogy but we could sit down and look at list after list after list that is like monstrous to get through and I don't know anytime you guys have asked me a question that I haven't actually had some information on it now I know I was surprised by some code enforcement um complaints that came in over a weekend cuz I don't go and review all that level of detail but I try to stay up on top of everything that we have going on you know I know you do so and I don't know if you guys realize it but we started our own building department this year and we're making money we're making money and our code enforcement we actually got I think something like a hundred cases closed since the last time we gave you a report um I mentioned to you about the fines that we're running I mean we're actually making a lot of a lot of difference everywhere and we're handling the stuff that people have been complaining about for 20 years when you think about it we're actually hitting people up for fines we closed PK Park and we're trying to bring them into compliance I mean I'm not going to try to take one item or another but I mean if you spend a day in the town it's you know whatever you see happening it's on fire here so I would love for you to see what we do um you know and the variety of stuff that you're kind of maybe I'm not explaining what maybe I am somewhat confused about but um so can you talk to her privately yeah that's what I'm saying let's do it privately can you be quick you want to talk about thank you um branine what's the best way to communicate with you I hear a lot of people say they call and they don't get a return call is it better to email you oh I'm definitely email would be great but you know we seem to have some issue with calls getting through the whole organization and we have like a two minut we have a two ring call tree going on right now so hopefully that could work better um I try to put them to the website to your email go to the website or email right there yeah email look I thought because even when I call it go somewhere sometimes yeah and I don't we know we have that problem and we are trying to fix it um future items Agri tourism I know they made recommendations I sent it out to all of you coming back to us is that a May 7th well so bringing it back May 7th because I would like to see and it may already be with that is the events ordinance oh I don't think events can be ready by them but you're right it needs to come back quickly cuz we've got some conflict because a tourism is an event and I think it meshes with it I just drives me crazy to see three ordinance that kind of talk about the same thing but one says it a little bit different than the other and uh I hate to come up with this AGR tourism ordinance and now we're conflicting an existing event ordinance or you know so I I just the good news is that we referen and I'm sorry I'm don't want to interrupt you we tried to make sure that we didn't do that conflict between existing ordinances we went to each of our existing ordinances and we pulled out of those ordinances where they apply to AGR tourism so we pulled out of what we have for special events but I totally agree we got to consolidate it um Poker Run had a very successful Poker Run 604 65 horses pictures look really was awesome just a and and it's all about the weather you know it was just like a perfect weekend and uh so really really fortunate that was that was a cool event the music was great at my house too you could hear it I could hear it could you yeah I I learned that uh my opinion music didn't mean much because these are people that don't get to see each other very often and they want to sit around a table and talk talk they don't want to go be you know ENT grounded out by by Band so yeah that was a lesson learned um tree mitigation um locations to to plant trees can we plant some oak trees on D Road between tangerine and the forestry station since we have 136 foot right away and we own all the way to those fences why can't we use that as a mitigation site and put some nice trees along there the owner of that property just moved the fence back like 20 we don't own all the way to us fence well we we still own a lot that we're not utilizing we can look into it I mean can we get Council consensus to look into talking about where can we do tree mitigation sites where can we plant trees may I make a suggestion what about long Southern Boulevard what y' talking about you don't want to see the plazas what does it hurt to put it like we don't we don't own property there though right it's star Sport and then it's state county yeah have something to say about that this is property that we own that that I think would be a nice especially coming into our town well we looked at receiver sites to plant to move trees to with Elizabeth a couple years ago um and really that's why we um we were looking at that D and we also looked at C C and actually I'm working with the residents the four residents on Hyde Park where that pond is to remove all the Exotics oh remove all the Exotics and clean that pond out re fix that drainage out to F canal and then plant Cypress and Pines back in that Circle so there's actually native plants back in there and so far the residents who live on those four the two that I've talked to so far have been very receptive but we can use mitigation funds to plant Cyprus there yeah we can what one of the things we have to do with that ordinance is we have to be more specific on how we can spend the funds okay we get a consensus to put that ordinance on the list it's on the list it is on the list it's the ordinance of the way it was in priority order right now we have culverts because that was the top priority but it's part one and part two we have signs which is now moved a higher priority than special events livestock and um oh God we just said it 87 no 87 landscape and trees yeah so that's those were all those are all in process of being Rewritten thank you thank you madam chair that's it March okay what's the status of the uh GPS and the cameras on the town equipment working on it we're getting I'm getting the uh quotes from Verizon and T-Mobile and once they we figure out what what route we're going to go we're going to purchase them okay and who will be monitoring all right Francine and I okay all right um and what's the status of the notebook Larry's notebook I've received some public records requests for Mr Peter's notebook including from um Commission on ethics we don't have Larry's notebooks we do not have them we do not have copies of anything in them we cannot provide them and we cannot compel him to give them to us they are his contemporaneous notes um and so they're not part of our records all right um I had asked quite a few meetings ago after um the the guy from the mulching place was here asking for historical Legacy when it seemed like his ship was uh sinking very fast I had asked for the sunsetting of um historical Legacy I mean it was started in 206 if you qualified then apply then it was modified in 210 and nobody could qualify so going forward we're wasting our time and our money so our attorneys are working on the deletion of historic Legacy and clarification of legal non-conforming and addressing both non-conforming structures and non-conforming lots those three things are being worked on all together and by the way um that particular operation um based on our code was able to have an extension and their extension with historical Legacy to bring the information back to council is I think June 3rd so if we don't have any anything back from them by June 3r um then they will not be able to pursue the historical Legacy any further and it it'll be dead as far as anybody else once once it comes out of our code it sure will be okay however I will say to you that people may by Statute and within our code claim vested rights and vested rights is something that we don't get to vote on it's a statuto and legal position that you have by virtue of um operating the business or using the property in the same way with um a reasonable belief that you could do it because nobody stopped you and I've tried to oversimplify it but that's pretty much it so so we're kind of stuck with all of these non conforming issues because we didn't stop them no we're not not necessarily but I can't say that there's a lot we can do if somebody has vested rights for example the county was our zoning Planning and Building function in 2008 and gave permits out on our behalf we can't undo that because that was us even though they were active and not us so there are circumstances that are going to be um long lengthy legal battles to do something to make them change others won't qualify for vested rights and and those uh industrial operations um how are we going to uh handle closing them down well please forgive me when I say they been here very many years and not all of them no not all of them and where they have not been here um and they do not have any reasonable assurance that they can continue their business there then we can do something about it but where they have been there longer than the town has been Incorporated and no one has done anything about it until now it becomes very difficult so what I can tell you is Bright View had action on it so we can keep moving forward on Bright View keeping it in its space the way it's supposed to be I'm giving you an example um but some of the other ones they actually had contracts with the town that were approved as part of advertised and solicited bids it's very difficult to say that they didn't have reasonable Reliance on their contract with the town as approval of their these were things that fleschman may have uh no LED them to believe who who who allowed them the sitting the sitting elected P elected officials and and the people working for the town I really yeah I wasn't here one time I said at a meeting I can't speak to what happened in those 20 years I can only speak to happen now and what I hear anecdotally then or I can find in a file well it seems patently clear that to keep this from happening moving forward we need we need to take action on all of them in an a sweeping we have started code enforcement on everything that we can um for instance we can always look at the FDA because any change in topography or taking down of more trees and that's the number one way that we can get on those properties when we have looked at the taking down of trees um you know there's a financial equation that makes it not make sense Cod enfor CL down I'm just saying there needs to be a resolution it disagree with there needs to be a resolution of it it's a can been getting kicked down the road for oh we're not kicking it down the road we're activ working on it and I'm not blaming you I'm just saying it's nobody's wanted to face or to make the hard decisions and it's just keeps getting kicked out I guess what I'm saying is our tools are limited so there would have to be something different than we are currently doing to actually do anything significantly more because we can stop people from trees we can stop people from building anything more we can we can do all the code enforcing you know that we have been trying to do but people that have already been there um aside from one or two we haven't gotten people to move well and uh right next to that um puddings place on okobe Boulevard the number of uh big rigs that are pulling in and out of that uh area that it's hidden behind all of those uh big tall I don't I don't even know what kind of structures they are they're bushes of some sort but I mean you can't see what's going on but you can be uh slowed down you can't get past those big old trucks because they got they've got to swing across the highway and then come back across the lane they were in to make the turn we didn't have code when okay well if that's not coded it needs to be coded now let me ask you a question with or without a complaint because the direction that Council has given staff is to go after life health safety FDA trees um and that type of urgent item um and respond to complaints so I mentioned to somebody that we were going to look at a longstanding business because were looking at all four corners there and it was met with did I have a complaint on it or not and I was like no but it's an FDA in tree issue and we do FDA in tree without a complaint so that's the question to think about in terms of consensus to staff are we going to be proactive or are we going to continue to rely on complaint and if we're going to be proactive then we may need to have stronger tools but but the thing is I mean if if we keep putting our head in the sand and saying oh nothing's going on around here we need to extend the meeting then it's going to be you know I hope not it's forgiven then almost okay all right you hear my question whether it's going to be proactive and whether we're staying existing Council all need to to think about we're bringing up code at the next meeting I think that at the next meeting when we talk about code I think something we all need to consider is do we want to change our policy of code from being proactive reactive to being proactive Laura did you have something you wanted to say um it just and this will be a footnote for the next meeting regarding a code complaint what is the vetting because many code complaints were sub were filed but it was a PO Box at a you you USPS store we've added them yeah we've added them all and you know again you said you got interaction from the person with the email but they used the um Google phone Google phone and post office box yeah so you know again for that meeting what is the vetting threshold for a valid code complaint okay um I think she's talking about making Pro act correct she is right right and Laura is bringing up another point which is when somebody makes a complaint for the same reason that we don't want to accept emails for to be read into public comment and let somebody from Bangladesh send an email that may they're allowed to they can send it but we're not reading them into the record any longer we we've made that decision tonight that we're not reading them into the record any longer at the beginning of the meeting Laura's asking the same kind of question anybody can make a code complaint they can make a code complaint from Bangladesh right but the point is what kind of vetting process like where does it stop if if they determine that this is somebody who doesn't live within the town has no vested interest in it doesn't matter if they live in the town um my question pertains to leg imacy decide whether it's legitimate or not yeah that's that's what she's as that's what she's she's not stating it she's suggesting that we take a look at what the process is for deciding whether to waste our code enforcement officer's time on a code enforcement complate how do we how do you think you could do that how do you determine if it's a valid complaint well when we go into it in depth in the next meeting you can bring your points up but that's what she Su St stat there Glen and that'll be something we can talk about at the next meeting then I'll review it before then I'm sure he will um so the the two things that keep coming up in um in my lots of emails and phone calls that I get um are water level complaints Mr Galant um a and and they I I know this is a Time of year when we are dry and we when we come out of it but um you know that rainy season is coming and just told your breath but you know the legitimacy of a complaint that was made today kind of struck a little close to home for me and I think it's something that needs to be considered is that a lot of us in this town because we don't have fire hydrants depend on the canals and our ponds to have water because when our insurance companies come out and and look at our properties and Ure us it is in fact the water in that Canal or the water in the pond on the back of my property that they are using as making me an insurable entity because there is no fire hydrant within you know however many feet their policy says it has to be so um I know that in the past when I was chair of the water Control District there was a guy who came in early to turn on the pump so that we could back pump you know early because it was at a lesser cost um to do that I I don't know what your policy is but um I'm asking you maybe if you can look into how other than obviously redesign the weers to keep property on the North End and etc etc all of that I and fix the drainage that's like I know all of that but is there an immediate solution to trying to keep the water levels a little bit higher and I'm not putting you on the spot I'm just asking you to consider it for the next meeting so I think the biggest issue at this point is the consumers um there are a number of consumers about three ,000 of them that suck water out of our canals um we ran our pumps 50,000 gallons a minute for8 and a half hours yesterday and gain that much water in the canals the water does not evaporate that fast and all the gates are holding tight so there's only one other option and that's somebody sucking off the water out of the canals um I know we have two large Farms on a road that have water use permits from South fla Water Management District um but I just have a hard time believing because the last four days we've had that pump running every day for about eight hours and we still can't get over like usually we keep the canal level at 16 feet we can't go much higher than 16 feet um I know there's been opinions expressed that oh the canals used to be 18 19 ft it's physically impossible the top of the wall is 17 1/2 ft so the water level could never get over 17 1/2 ft ever otherwise we just over top the walls and wind up in the c-51 we try to keep it at 16 when I first started here I said we'll see you know let's get to 16 and a half and I got about 20 phone calls rancine got phone calls from residents my toilet's not flushing my yard is flooding literally for going up 4 inches so I know what our level is at 16 when I left today we were at 158 which you know is two Ines below um 16 um the lowest it's been is about 148 at one point we had it low when we're doing the Canal bank restoration because we have to be able to get the the rip wrap below the water table below the water line best way to do that is to have the water down um um the one issue is is that the fire department is not going to rely on our canals to get wa to get water if they fight a fire regardless of how full they are because the second they drop any hoses in there it's going to suck mud up in their engines and then they're going to have to figure out a way to get it out um they will they will drive back and forth I've talked to representatives of fire rescue right over here at our station and asked them straight out they said the only thing the only body of water they'll take water from is a pool because they know and even not just here we're talking the acreage even unincorporated areas of Wellington they have the exact same issues um don't tell the insurance company then oh yeah I have a neighbor I have a neighbor on the next street where I live who put a fire hydr in front of his house it's not hooked to anything and the insurance company bought it so hey but we are doing our best to try to keep the water level super low on the nor Town um right right now we're still in the spring uh peak hours so 6:00 a.m. to 10: a.m. and 6:00 p.m. to 10: p.m. we cannot run the pump without paying an absorbit amount more in electric I mean our electric bill last month or no not last month I think in January and we ran it very minimally in January was like almost $2,000 just for the pump and I I am cringing when I see it this month we run that pump every single day and we just can't get the water level up because somebody is using it's probably more than one person you know I mean I know there's a resident on Tangerine that every day Waters the road for like two hours um because I have to drive through it the just there's a lot of residents water in the grass a lot of residents using water for whatever various purposes they're using it for and it's just consuming all the water and just I mean outside of running having somebody sit there in the middle of the night I don't know what what else to do I think it's the nurseries we used to we used to run them at night we used to run them at night I me it may be what has to happen I don't I don't know I'm just saying it's it's it's an issue and you know again population increases number of people in the town I know this is a bad time of year because we have more animals in the town at this time of year and everything else but you know we really need to and also because of course you know as you're aware when the water level gets that low then the sides Slough off and you know the damages the sides of the so so one of my concerns of running it at night is because it's old they're older even though the pump the actual motor is relatively new but even though somebody's not standing there staring at it the entire time it's running somebody is around and we have cameras that are on it so we can see it at night I you know I don't know who is going to volunteer to stand there all night well from 10 P literally 10 pm to 6:00 am running it um but I don't feel comfortable leaving it running because if it burns up yeah we have a bigger problem you're right all right well it's just something that's a concern so anything that you can do to to resolve it would be uh hugely appreciated um there are even people that are saying you know in the 50 years they've lived there that here they've never seen them this slow so just passing along the information um the other thing that I wanted to um bring back if it's okay with everybody is the RV policy because I just feel that there is a tremendous amount of confusion misunderstanding um and and misuse of the policy so I think we need to bring it back make a firm policy and enforce it um and and that's just what we need to do and I know it's an uncomfortable position but I think it just has to be done um pretty good one I think in the in the cooker no got she got to tweak it well but it need but it needs to be fin you know it's it's kind of just one of those things that's been left hanging and that's that's a dangerous thing to do I think um so I would ask that maybe not at the May meeting because goodness gracious knows we already have added a whole bunch of stuff to that one but maybe at the June one we could put that on um frine okay um if you could put that on that one to bring back the RV policy and let's get it in place before season next year and enforced I am now done so I'm now going to adjourn the meeting good night every e