I have we all stand for the United States of America and to the repic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and if we could just have a moment of silence and I would like for everybody to just think about the fact that we're all here to work together and to work in unity to try to preserve this wonderful town that we live in well okay if I can have a vote call please council member manilia presid council member danowski council member Shore here council member uh vice mayor Herzog here mayor Kane Town manager ramilia here Town attorney tor cvia he is here he's on he should be present via Zoom Public Works director Gant present here I here mayor hello Madam mayor we don't see you but we hear you I think you do the he's here okay all right uh this is a workshop to discuss a number of issues regarding uh infrastructure and storm water and roadways in the town um trying to reestablish establish bring them back into um some kind of uniformity uh and while preserving our rural nature um so we're going to look at item number one I think this is mostly the Richard Gant show tonight I believe um but we're going to look at item number one there's not necessarily a title for it well no we don't we don't have anything that says we need to because that's oh do we have any additions deletions or modifications to the agenda no yes yes okay what would you like to add delete or modify um just to add um that at so point where do we blend in the rural Vista guidelines to any of this and were they ever accepted and brought into the town under ordinance or code I'm going to answer that we have a workshop if you don't mind I don't know okay we have a workshop on the comp plan on June 18th and the rural Vista guidelines should be discussed at that time they have not been updated since they were originally put together and no they have not been formally adopted okay thank you you're welcome okay so that's not an addition or a deletion it may not have been appropriate it was kind of a squirrel thought so sorry okay we go ahead with your squirrel thought I I I mean I I don't know that we have to approve the agenda of a workshop but since Robert would like us to please can I make a motion to approve the agenda uh make a motion to approve the agenda second okay I'll in favor of approving the agenda I I oppose not opposed Okay so item number one there isn't really a title for you to read Valerie um this you want to just read the subject for us sure it's a purpose and overview of the existing storm water system and challenges okay um I I'm struggling since it's such a long presentation with allowing the public comment to occur do we have any public comment on this item first of all I do have a public comment from Deborah Marshall uh is this for item one and two and five yes okay um I'm struggling with whether to have the public comment first before the Pres we usually have the presentation first so that perhaps some of the questions are answered during public comment um it's a long presentation but if that's okay I think we'll stick to that format and let Mr Gant give his presentation and then we'll let the public comment happen before we have Council discussion well one thing I'd like to do before we start Mr gantis could you please introduce the team at the table because I think it should be a little bit more of an interactive discussion instead of all on your shoulders the mic on first my name is Adam sweny with engineuity group we Engineers for the town s can you say that loud Adam sweny with Ingenuity group Randy wpy with kesars and Associates good evening this is my name is Lisa tppy with Ingenuity group all three of us here four of us we're all five of us Engineers Tara Bamber Ingenuity group got his own special Sor want me introduce myself yes please do some people may not know you um I'm Richard glant I am the uh Public Works director uh uh District engineer as well as a plethora of other titles okay and so could you please give us your presentation all right I'll give a second for somebody there it is all right um so I guess because the entire presentation is pretty much the entire agenda um just the different subsets of the agenda have the different components and outlines in it um so I will start so the first slide is the title slide surface water management is what comes up first correct all right so summary of we're going to be talking about tonight uh the first thing we're going be talking about is the overview of our existing system then we're going to go over a brief history of where the where the subdrainage district then the water Control District and eventually the town came from some of the challenges that we're going to be facing um what we faced originally and over time and then what our action plan is going to be what we're going to be doing in the future right so an overview of our existing system so the functions of our system include collecting and conveying the drainage runoff from all the properties within the locki Groves water Control District collecting the drainage along okoi Boulevard providing an irrigation distribution point for all the residents within locki grow water Control District and it's connected to the c-51 canal along Southern Boulevard for disposal and also to refresh the system during times of drought um our key features we have seven main canals that flow from north to south three main Canal those are the a b c d e f and fome canals three canals East and West which is North Road collecting Canal okobe okobe is more of a drainage ditch there's one actually on 25th and the south north which is also considered an East West Canal we have three alall structures on the on the um three alall structures on Southern Boulevard that connect to the c-51 um our primary is the two 12T Gates on D Road there steel Gates um then we have one structure on AO on the a canal next to Palm Beach State College and we have another structure next to the Wendy's on F Crestwood and Southern Boulevard that are smaller Gates then for replenishment of the system during droughts are times that the canal levels are low we have an inflow structure also at the dgate that pulls water from the um c-51 back into our system so this is the next slide is an overview of our existing system so we just did or in the process of doing the the resiliency study uh we're currently going through all the canals and everything and assessing and getting elevations and such so before you you have an overview of that existing system from the field survey so we drainage canal we have more than 30 mies of drainage canal in the entire town the roadways we have 90% of them are maintained by the town 55 miles are public and then we have four miles that are private so the connect direct pipe connections which US are connections from properties to our main canals there's 605 surveyed pipes 16 of the pipes are smaller than 12 in 589 are between a foot and 8 and 1 half foot which is 102 in in diameter 123 are main flow Channel CTS which are the 18 in to 102 67 are beneath roads 56 are beneath driveways there are bridges in the town uh right now there's about 20 individual span Bridges and then the catch basins and structures there 104 catch basins and manholes throughout the town next slide all right so these two maps here are roadway system map and our drainage system map so we're coordinating with the consultants and Specialists about technical studies cost estimates repairs and upgrades from using these Maps um we use our GIS to assess the data from our town storm water canals the structures and pipes also using Palm Beach County's data for roadways so that Maps like these can be produced uh we're also using the original plats and stuff to get the actual physical measurements which are obviously more accurate um we're using this data to pursue to Grants uh look into our regulatory programs and compliance to make sure we're in compliance with any applicable laws um any interlocal collaborations and also opportunities to participate in programs that are already funded so the nice thing about this is when it's all done we'll have we'll be able to use something as simple as an iPad or even an iPhone to locate things in the system be able to do uh better locates uh whenever anybody's doing any underground work what kind of when it best as we can put in there when it was installed so we know when we can timely replace it prior to failure uh predictive maintenance basically we can look at any we're also doing an assessment so we can identify any problems within the systems any CS that are are in need of replacement or have already begun failing and just haven't been has not the failure has not been realized um we can gauge when it was last inp Ed based on our records and also give us a a fresh eyes on every C all right next so this is the 27 2017 lar data with elevations in navd from 1988 and all of our outfall stru and showing our three outfall structures on the bottom of the map um this is a topographic map of the Town according to pom Beach County's lar uh the blue the coloring show the lowest elevations so everything that's blue is the lowest elevations in the town and the darker it gets is the higher the elevations as you can tell there's pretty much majority of the town has some type of blue in it almost on almost in every property in the town has some type of blue in it excuse me one second what the difference in elevation is it seven feet or nine feet from the south to the north so the gate the gate at d Road is at 17 and a half feet and North Road is 20 like right around 20 so three feet oh it's only 3 feet okay I thought it was more yeah it's about three feet what what is the elevation at North Road about 20 I don't have it in front of me but it's about 20 feet give or take thank you I'm sorry for interrupting all right um so this is a continuation of our overview this is these we have control structures that regulate the release of water to the c-51 we are regulated by permit as to how much water we can release um they're located along Southern Boulevard our primary is on D road with a pair of 12 foot wide steel Gates and then secondaries are at a and at fulson the drainage obviously because the North End of the town is higher flows from north to south so this next slide is a brief history of the locki Groves water Control District um the Palm Beach Loach company dug 30 miles of canals and created the the lock atche Groves drainage District after the completion of West Palm Beach canal in 1917 and the West for those who don't know the West Palm Beach Canal is now known as the c-51 um in 1928 there was some severe damage to that Canal system a lot of it had to be reded cleaned out and removed the first pump was installed on D Road in 19 in 1930 uh the lock palmach lock aty company sold locki grow to locki investments in 1958 and the town was incorporated in 200 six continuing with a brief history um AR agricultural uses were the most common in the undeveloped areas far exceeded all the cleared areas originally HSE drawn carriages and carts were you probably used as the largest form of transportation as there was not a lot of roads out here at that time Southern Boulevard barely existed at that point um canals were dredged for agricultural drainage and irrigation some of the original Road beds were like created by depositing the excavated materials from when they dug out the canals and then the road and canals were maintained together with by the water Control District so the current recorded plat which was recorded on June 4th 1925 shows 60 foot wide corridors for Road and drainage The Wider Corridor along the D along D from Southern Boulevard and collecting Canal suggests it could have been used as some type of Transportation like an inland Port uh area because that width is only from collecting Canal to Southern Boulevard it's 136 ft versus everywhere else is is 60 ft so in summary prior to its incorporation the town's Road and Canal systems were managed by the water Control District with its emphasis mainly on drainage uh the non-c central drainage features and the roadways were largely improvised with very little planning detail design or consistency in construction practices and the provisions for the roadway system have not kept pace with the prevailing social technological and economic development surrounding transportation and Public Safety so we have some catching up to do to uh get us to be somewhat of a reasonably modern and safe town for people to trans to drive through and navigate through so some of our surface water management challenges so in transportation obviously it's Motor Vehicles a lot of vehicles are bigger than they were back in the 30s um so the roads have to be a little bit bigger they have to be more stable communication with uh the Advent of cell phones and fiber optic cable AT&T Comcast and all these companies are wanting to run going to be wanting to run their fiber optic cable and most of it's going to be run through the areas where our roads are I know AT&T has already started some of that work um utilities at some point you know right now there are pressurized water and sewer lines um along Southern Boulevard along OKO Boulevard and along North Road um at some point depending on legislation there has been talk about um forcing Water and Sewer um obviously a lot of that is still being talked about by the politicians in Tallahassee but it is something that need needs to be uh looked into um obviously power poles and power lines uh last Thursday we actually had an incident on one of our roads uh many of you should know already know about it where we had trees catching on fire from the power lines um so things like that all have to be mitigated so originally we had horse trailers now we have tractor trailers hauling these horses um you know we have to worry about fire engines EMTs um being a police fire being able to Traverse our roads uh recently I actually had Palm Beach County fire rescue said there's a couple residents Bridges they won't drive over if they get called because they don't deem them safe um and my research looking some other stuff up I actually found in the old minutes of the Control District where the fire department said that they they were actually talking to the water Control District and told them if they don't do something about their roads they're no longer going to respond to calls this was of course back in the 60s but it was still a problem back then so some more of the challenges is the regulatory framework for agencies and criteria so uh water qual quality and nutrient levels um actually I was talking to an engineer today was telling me that they're looking at storm water runoff and requiring nutrient loading um testing to be done on water quality discharge rates um which is a big thing here in lock atche grows because we need retention right now our only retention really is the canals uh we need our impoundment so we need to examine areas to impound water so we can store it because um as South as the area grows southw Water Management District is going to put the squeeze on and put the squeeze on different municipalities and force them to comply with their permits on discharge which could be have an adverse effect on the town storm events uh maintenance monitoring and Reporting female flood insurance issues which we'll actually talk about a little bit later uh resilience preparation and recovery so as I discussed um earlier limited space for drainage to share with on with roadside uses uh we need more areas for empowerment we need bigger canals uh we need to be able to mitigate those changes uh we need to improvise grading and drain n what did you just say about the canals so we need the right now the canals have slopes and they're not they're they they don't have slopes they have slopes well they're one and half to one right um the issue is we don't have enough storage in the town right now those canals are our storage so we have a severe rain fall event the only place we have to keep water is in those canals so either we have to make the canals bigger or we have to figure out a place so we can store water okay I want to come back to that when you're done with your presentation okay it's important all right so improvise grading and drainage improvements um not necessarily follow the best practices like you had mentioned you know typically a typical standard slope is 2: one on a canal ours are lucky have a one and a half to one and that Canal slope dates back to 1917 when they originally dredged the canals there's actually documentation that shows that's how they designed it back then and back then that may have been acceptable but today with all the traffic Road heavier Vehicles it's not um limited storage space we had already talked about that uh but we don't have any place to keep water in the event of of a heavy rain event like a hurricane or even you know in 2012 when H Hurricane Irene came through and those rain salls just stayed over the top of Wellington lock aty Groves in the acreage and created all that flooding we have no place to put the water and then our aging facilities um a lot of our gates were put in in the 60s and 70s um the main dgate was in was upgraded around the mid 80s so even the main gate hasn't been retrofitted since like 84 85 so you know that's over 30 years almost 40 years ago so that's going to lead some challenges is um on how to deal with that you know where do we get the money to make these improvements how do we fix this stuff um within the budget confines or what grants that we can pursue so some other issues that we've have been experienced by residents uh flooding or wash outs um I was talking to many of you this today and over the last week about um residents who have come to me on and told me about you know their flooding concerns that whenever there's heavy rains that half their property floods and they have to get an airboat to get to their houses that's a serious concern that the town needs to address uh limited property access for the residents and the services um many of our roads are interconnected but there are some roads that are miles long has one way in and one way out uh reoccurring maintenance and repair um with the dirt roads especially you constantly have to grade them you constantly have to bring in material uh to keep the roads maintained not just for passenger use but also for emergency vehicles you know fire trucks aren't going to do 30 40 miles an hour down these roads trying to get to your house if having a heart attack if the road is is all washed out um also unregulated water withdrawals from our Canal systems we're currently working on a water use permit we have different residents that are pulling water from our canals we're seeing it and the amount of water that we're having to pump back in yes there's some water that's being um withdrawn by permit but a lot and some is from EV evap trans transpiration but a lot of it's being used by residents who don't even have permits and just have uh pipes in the in our canals and they're pulling water that affects our groundwater impacts uh with for the wells and septic systems you're pretty much where your Canal level is is where the flood is where your well level is flood insurance requirements and then disputes over ownership costs and it's Mains the responsibility so the next slide shows some drainage conc drainage concerns so drainage issues have been documented throughout the town this map was created to identify where those issues have occurred so that the improvements can be tar targeted to the problem areas the field review is conducted following rainfall events to identify the locations for ponding ruting or other runoff hazards where they're occurring and this map will help explain the in locations for installations of catch basins and pipes our extensions of swells and repairs for resurfacing of Roads so this area is obviously North Road around 160th 161st also shows part of B Road on there so the next slide talks about some of our drainage system issues so our first is our first challenge is is our current level of Maintenance we are obviously limited by our budget we're limited by staff um we only have we only can cover so many areas of of this town there's a lot of defer deferred maintenance um some of the areas concerned have been identified um and we're finding more and more every day um I get messages I get emails I get phone calls from people who tell me um where the issues are and the only thing I can tell them is is we have it on a list we are getting there as fast as we can but we're obviously limited to what we can do what one of the biggest issues is easements um we do have a lot of easements we have a lot of unrecorded plats that we rely on in order to be able to restore these um drainage swells to be able to um correct these roads and to try to improve the area but there's other areas especially along our main roads that we lack the easements to even probably even have the road where they're at let alone put a drainer soil in to combat the flooding that happens along the the road edges another uh system issue is going to be our plane management requirements Canal dredging uh which is it's another that's another huge thing that needs to be put on the list um maintenance of connections from the property so one of the questions is asked is who's responsible for the drainage pipes coming from people's properties that when they fail and and cause the road to collapse who fixes that do we wait for the owner to get to it or does the town do it and unfortunately at this point the town has to do it because if the town doesn't do it then now we have a road a road blockage uh maintenance of comp within the private properties so the flood plane um some of the female requirements require that the man the flood flooding has to be managed everywhere not just in the public area so we have to figure out a way to address those challenges on those private properties without the town doing it um responsibility for carts and bridges over our main canals so our drainage system strategies includes doing the studies and data data acquisition which is what we are currently involved in then doing modeling and predictive analysis which is the next step in the result resiliency plan updating our standards and practices uh which we actually cover some in here tonight permitting monitoring and compliance stabilizing our Canal Banks and uh having a better maintenance program for them and then um acquiring more additional easements to better be able to maintain the assets that we currently have so on the next slide we have this map here this is a map uh based on palmach County Property Appraisers records for warranty deeds in the town if an easement is declared in the legal description has been mapped if we if if the use of the easement was included like a drage or roadway utility or just the access then that is included in the in the data tables and and are colored accordingly to show the different types in a close-up view as you see on the right the yellow is the road and the blue is drainage so like other Maps this is a real word data that can be sent to a surveyor to stake the day before we dig any ditches or do anything like that which we're actually currently doing on 161st um to work in progress though it only covers the properties and the boxes that are on the left um but the data is being supplemented and it's being added on to as we have Manpower and money so some of our actions uh we're using modern advances to be more coste efficient so we're using mapping programs like GIS and other things to be able to have real world um reviews without having to find paper maps like like this in order to uh figure out where everything is monitoring the existing system uh you you know the county does their light R uh assessments there's um we monitor what's going on in the town um in real real time assessments LIF and LIF span and Manufacturing quality of materials so uh materials quality control procedures and distribution that makes easier price and obtain and install and begin generating a value for the residence that wasn't previously possible and then GIS and tracking software the value of this is generated in the form more fiable life life cycle investment and better flow rates using smaller lighter pipes material longevity by when we do our modeling so improving the standards um some of the things we're going to be looking at is permitting and development review trying to improve our permitting system and how we review our developments to make things more um expedient but still be thorough by modifying our ordinances to be more en encompassing of our issues and to be able to address those issues by uh doing Special assessments for residents who let's say they have a cobbert needs to be replaced because it's failing but they don't have the money to do it um one of the ordinances we are actually reviewing is a special assessment ordinance that would assess that specific resident for their cber to be replaced um over time um code enforcement and compliance or Code Compliance um bringing people into compliance for um any violations so we have you know residents who decide to slap their own certs in um or modify their CS which actually create an issue for the town so we're going through our Code Compliance Department to impair those issues and then replacement budgeting you know at some point we need to get Beyond just responding to failures and begin predictively replacing cords and using this resiliency study as well as GIS and other things we can get to that point to where we know we can predict when something is going to fail and actually do something about it before it actually becomes an emergency and cost the town two or three times what it normally would cost to replace so this provides consistency ensures the max the minimum level of functionality clarifies and assigns responsibilities for the maintenance and protects the existing assets and future operations so the next few slides are going to focus briefly on each of the plans as we get a synopsis of what we hope to accomplish with each one so before you have our different actions and plans so the first one is road side drainage improvements so by improving the collection and conance of the runoff to protect the roadways and travel for travel and investments in roadway materials and construction through proper scheduling proper budgeting and proper design and permitting the next item is culbert ordinance so protecting the existing culverts implementing standards for conveyance connections construction quality recordkeeping clarifying the limits and responsibilities for the maintenance throughout the town this is done by figur out where the private colberts are where the private soiles and ditches are and who their responsibility proper maintenance establishing a maintenance standard uh acquiring more additional easements to be able to better manage the storm water runoff from roads and from uh properties uh enforcing compliance with our U current FDA rules um as well as any future ordinance Chang changes this will be a benefit to our existing system as we will be able to um better maintain it and better you know impact on our on our current users um funding is a big issue um but with the c with by changing the culbert ordinance uh cooperation from residence is key and then uh any future updates are permitting or permitting can also be reviewed the next slide is flood plane order orance so a flood plan ordinance is required for the town for inclusion in the National flood insurance program which makes its flood insurance accessible enhances the usage and value of real property protects the flood plane from encroachments which might otherwise contribute to flooding of normally safe properties so the flood plane ordinance addresses best management practices it focuses on life and property protection it's health and safety protection from SE for your from your septic or any agricultural overflow requires a design review a certification by an engineer of record with an asilt survey and has mandatory recordkeeping when a flood plane crosses property lines the adverse effects can be experienced from some distance away from its cause um So within the town the flood risk caused by a single project is small but its cumulative effect across many projects can be significant so the flood plane ordinance so the flood plane management is a community- based effort to prevent or reduce the risk of flooding resulting in a more resilient Community as you see here you've got two different pictures of predevelopment and post-development uh flood plane elevations and one of the things I just wanted to point out on this slide is uh something else that's come up multiple times is the laws as it refects uh non-residential Farm structures and farm fences and farm signs and Florida State Statute actually states that for those buildings and you that are exempt from the Florida building code any and any County or Municipal Code or fee the code Provisions for flood Federal flood plane management regulations are not exempt so we've had a few residents have made comments to us about that they're agricultural a exempt and they're not they don't have to comply with flood plane requirements every resident every commercial property every property in the town of loget groves and the locket go water control district is required by law by state law and also federal law to comply with the Florida with the federal flood plane requirements you can what number are you on this is the 27 well it's 27 online 28 38 that one you just said that oh yeah oh it's 27 I have two different numbers on my on my papers all right flood plan ordinance um there actually we on the slide before that's I believe you just said this one this one way too many slides yeah this is this we're good yeah okay we're on 28 all right so the floor ordinance from FEMA especially in flat areas the flood plane provides a valuable function by storing flood waters when Phill or buildings are placed in a flood Fringe the flood storage areas are lost flood Heights will go up because there's less room for flood waters this is particularly important in smaller water sheds which respond sooner to changes in topography Comm there's a What's called the community rating system that give credits that are available for communities that adopt compensatory storage requirements as well as other requirements the community rating system reduces the flood insurance yes and there's uh different requirements that have to be complied with um once those compliance and then you get rated by FEMA and then FEMA will actually reduce the flood insurance cost not only to the town but also to the residents within the town we are a long way away from that all right um from the FEMA National flood management manual 480 so these are some of the sanctions for non-participation because that's something else that's come up so I'm going to read a couple of these uh many of you uh I think I've already talked to about but the flood insurance will not be available to Residents if the town decides to opt out of our current flood development program um this is not this is straight out of their out of FEMA four manual 480 which is the flood plane management requirements um if a community with is withdrawals or suspended existing flood insurance policies will not be renewed no federal grants or loans for acquisition or construction of buildings may be made or identified flood Hazard areas under programs administered by federal agencies such as HUD EPA or SBA that that statement right there basically says that any of these grants and stuff that we've been applying for can be denied if we get suspended or withdrawal from the national flood insurance program um Federal Disaster Assistance that that otherwise may be provided um will not be provided on even on insurable buildings that are located in a flood Hazard area no federal mortgages no Federal Mortgage insurance or loan guarantees may be provided in identified flood Hazard areas this includes policies written by the FHA VA or others that includes loans that are backed by Fanny May Freddy Mack those organizations which are probably 80% of the mortgages that are obtained by people federally insured federally insured regulating lending institutions such as Banks and Credit Unions must notify applicants seeking home loans for insurable buildings in flood areas that they in a flood plased area and the properties is not eligible for federal disaster relief so those are just a few of the things so basically if we if we either get suspended for inaction um or we get we decide to withdrawal from the national flood insurance program requirements um basically most people won't be able to get mortgages the town won't be able to get grants any money the the feds I was actually talking to somebody at a conference I went to and they said that FEMA could actually recall monies that has already been given to us for Grants um future grants will be denied federal assistance will be denied so if a hurricane comes through here and destroys half the town we're on the hook for the repairs which obviously we don't have the money for um so the next slide month 30 uh cobbert replacement repairs so Canal bank restoration and maintenance and clearing so assessing the condition of 20 years of sediment that needs to be removed scheduling the preventative maintenance making the decisions to complete in-house or to Outsource budgeting and planning for repairs or replacement millions are going to be needed for all the necessary repairs um one estimate we actually have in it's which is part of I think it's in here is um the LMS grants that we applied for which are probably close to $90 million total just for like I think seven projects on there yeah I think there's seven projects on there it's going be close to 90 million and that doesn't even I mean improves a lot of things but it doesn't really improve it enough to where we actually need to be um State Appropriations grant funding and INF Improvement initiatives so we're going to be seeking assistance under existing programs recognizing that benefits of improving public uh infrastructure so like last year we got the 750,000 from the state which went directly into infrastructure improvements um this year we're hoping to get another 750,000 which again will go directly into infrastructure improvements we're doing the Florida the resilient Florida Grant which is what we're currently doing that will open up more doors for more grant opportunities to fund a lot of these uh things the local mitigation strategy is run by Palm Beach County and essentially what happens is they you put these items into their list they score it and then as funding opportunities come become available they notify you and actually help you through the process of granting getting the money to fund those uh issues and then there's also other other funding sources that are currently under investigation and we're going to be pursuing them as they come available and then we qualify so the next thing is our water use policy uh development so a cost analysis and ordinance is needed to standardize the conditions for connections to withdrawals from the town surface water system to reduce waste and Safeguard system functionality again we need to start using the best management practices to conserve water and and develop a water shortage policy um this will protect the health and safety of the residents uh we need a we I need to pass an ordinance which and that I know is in here um we have to assess fees and costs permitting review and compliance and then any implications from the conversion of our current users Richard yes ma'am I think we need to stop for a moment and talk about the fact that we had an Ingenuity look at the water use policy last year and where we are right now is an interim measure the district had an irrigation or water use permit um and so what we've done is we've talked to South Florida Water Management with regard to the straws that we currently have right now um some of which we have identified through Brazilian FL Florida and what we're going to do based on Keith Jackson and genuity's advice is to add the water use permit to our existing FDA permit and we will look at them concurrently as applications come in and additionally for any of the straws that we have already identified we will send out courtesy notices to invite everyone to come in and do a short form permit so we know um what's being pulled out of our canals thank you you're welcome I just wanted to make sure we got that in there we have the last I knew and this was something that way back when we were water Control District and I was chair I think there were like five or seven is off the top of my head paid permits and significantly more people doing it there are several hundred I believe right and um there are only a handful that I think are so we're going to do a courtesy letter and a short form um per permit and what we're doing is We are following the same practice as South Florida Water Management permit this is all included and dependent upon the the district's existing permit and we just want to make sure that we know um where our water is going well back at that anybody can correct me I'm not an engineer I'm not I'm the only non-engineer in the room yeah and back at that time the discussion that we had as I recall with South Florida water management was a request to them not to Grant the permits until they were sure that we had a permit with the person well I believe that in the meeting with South Florida they said they would not be granting any well permits without review by us okay great phis did you have something I I did so um in the past whenever we've tried to or us to do an action which this is an action I'm hoping you put someone in charge so this gets done and you've got 30 days to come in if you don't come in in 30 days then they start snapping the water off so end a story I mean we need to put cap on it because this town has a history of come in and then nobody follows up we can do the for years we can do the short period yeah just you got 30 days to come in that's it well I think we'll think about how long it's a reasonable amount of time to you whatever you guys decide but please put a time limit on sure thank you Richard okay Richard continue please sorry I interrupted you now I lost my trans all right so this is a coming event 33 there yeah there you go all right so um this slide here is a resilient Florida preparedness and not response initiative it's administered by the Florida Department of envir Environmental Protection and provides funding for assistance in storm preparation response recovery planning and improvements and it's a collaborate effort through local and state level so some of the deliver we're going to be getting from this is going to be mapping of all of our assets we'll have an inventory of all of our assets we'll have a model of the system and how it's supposed to respond to different um situations and then present day and projected scenarios based on population and any other changes that may occur in the district can I can I ask a question about this resiliency Grant is this some is there a number on this yet or we're just like putting ourselves in the queue by following this process is that that's my understanding is that we're just kind of putting ourselves in the queue for it and then we have to be selected based on the Merit ability of our project is that accurate that's the LMS you okay so the resiliency one is what so there are actually two types of grants available from the state for rilian Florida we have the planning Grant right now so that has been awarded to the town and that is where this effort is coming from how much was that Grant yeah I believe it was $3,000 yes and once you complete your vulnerability assessment you are eligible to apply for future implementation grants okay because I was just at a present a ribbon cutting last week over in Wellington for the mar new margorie stonham Douglas preserve that they put in and they got a whopping resilient Florida grant for that I mean they had grants from other places but I mean they got a Sig I mean it it's the numbers that you're talking about just from resilient Florida so that's what I'm I'm aiming at I mean theirs was for and I'm not saying restoring What lands isn't wonderful and I'm not saying what they did over there isn't wonderful I'm just saying this is for like the survival of our town and the the benefit of our people this isn't for a park so does that raise us up on the Merit list that particular that particular Grant uhuh is actually storm water related because they take all their storm water from the town and it run processes through thata and then goes out to the c-51 or whatever they're disposing backup property that they added just expanded basically Reserve area they take the entire Village of Wellington the majority of their storm water comes to that point and then leaves from there so that was all storm water based and they got an added benefit from the because it also gives them impoundment it also gives them the ability to have another Park cu turned it into a park yes they did yeah yeah it was nice okay thank you sorry I just one one thing that needs to be pointed out and I know Randy said it but I want to be more clear about it and that is that this grant is the first step towards future grants you cannot get the um Construction Grants that Wellington got without this grant we did apply for two Construction Grants they just on the off chance and we did get ranked um but we didn't get funded and we won't be able to really get in the running without the results of this grant there are additional planning grants under resilient Florida we are looking at those and we may apply again we might not get funded but we've got a lot of planning to do thank you for clarifying that thank you um so continuing um as you can see by the task list here right now we're at task four we're still acquiring the background data um this was you know includes the uh surveying which most of that has been done and then we also have to do the the condition assessment of the the existing assets and then from there we do our exposure and sensitivity analysis and other public Outreach and then we did develop the final report which is supposed to be done in 2025 I don't remember what month off the top of my head but say June or July I then correct it it's in 2025 it should be noted though we are ahead of schedule at the moment and we're hoping to keep it that way obviously this is the first step so the sooner we complete the vulnerability assessment the sooner you're eligible to apply for the implementation grants thank so in addition to the vulnerability analysis the beginning of the resiliency planning process we have they'll give hydraulic Model results for the existing pipes and the channels this will identify the hydraulic weak points where Banks might wash out and channels might overflow and where pipe flow might be restricted also in a field assessment for each of the pipe will help log its condition amount of blockage and any immediate repairs that are needed it also set a baseline for future inspection Cycles also the risk of critical assets like emergency response communication will also be evaluated so this process creates a template that can be tailored in the future for creating a maintenance activity log and scheduling inspections for cleaning and planning the storm water model is a scientific tool that can be used to test out upsizing pipes upgrades Replacements before the money is install them which will cut down on the chance of paying to fix for fixes that don't need to really be done or duplicating expenses when a single fix at the right location would have been enough so updates upgrades and investigation Alternatives so updates to out outdated critical equipment which will help maintain our minimum system operation conduct a structural and operational assessment of our existing control structures at a d and fulam and then replace any the telemetric monitoring our SK system and our remote monitoring systems at all three of those locations so storm hardening and resiliency upgrades we're going to prepare to we're going to begin to prepare emergency conditions and protect Public Services during Emergency Operations and reduce the potential for major losses improve response and Recovery efforts by replacing the public work Pavilion with a storm resistance structure a procedure for a standby auxiliary generator system with a transfer switches and ancillary items for Emergency Operations in the town hall and at Public Works and design and construct areawide drainage system improvements along Citrus Tangerine East Citrus and orange Avenues also investigation into alternate improvements to allocate a fraction of the cost of major activities by determining the best and most feasible courses of action from among several Alternatives and support of budgetary and planning Decisions by investigating putting retaining wall installations in the canal Banks investigating reinstatement of operable structures on the north side of OKO Boulevard we're going to investigate hydraulic and operational benefits adding pumps to the system for improved control within the drainage District canals and investigate maintenance contract oper options for ongoing cleaning dredging and debris removal within the canal systems so flashboard risers that were previously used along the north side of okobi on all roads the risers have not functioned prior well prior for the Townson Corporation a lot of that is because of water elevation table water table elevations being able to overtop the existing uh flashboard risers is part of the reason why they were removed so in conclusion the town lock Groves has inherited a 100-year old agricultural roadway and drainage system that has a lot of deferred maintenance the roadway and drainage systems are indispensable and Inseparable assets that support and sustain each other as well as every resident business and visitor we have to have standards to have we have to have standards to improve in the interim and uses our uses have I have Diversified in the last 100 years so in order to provide a sa satisfactory living conditions in the present and be desirable place to live under projected conditions planning strategies need to be endorsed and supported to for the Improvement of our infrastructure some of our challenges have been inherited with the systems history and some of the opportunities have emerged to address those challenges we are currently working to overcome the issues that we have here before the town and prevent these kinds of issues that may occur if the concerns are not properly addressed a great place to live does not happen by accident and then the last slide um the local mitigation strategies that we talked about so the local mitigation strategy serves as the foundation for soliciting and utilizing various funding sources including local state and federal and other available resources this strategy provides a compelling rationale for securing financial support for hazard mitigation projects and initiatives by aligning the broader Emergency Management Frameworks such as Palm Beach County Emergency Management the town enhances its eligibility for funding opportunities uh in the last couple of weeks the town has submitted seven projects to be scored and added to the list this is the first time since 2018 that any submission has been made by the town so you see the the list before you we have our townwide Canal stabilization which is $79 million the connecting Canal collecting Canal bank stabilization at $1 million upgrades and replacement of the gates and Palms At $300,000 skate and Telemetry upgrades at $300,000 our pumps and wears which is um $400,000 the replace of the Public Works building and its ancel in its facility is $750,000 and then adding a towel hole generator and converting into being an automatic generator $75,000 thank you Richard do we have any public comment on this Valerie yes we have a comment from Miss Marshall I have been pres here for 23 years and as I listen this oh and I want to ask you are all Engineers but and we got your names and your companies but not what of Engineers you are specialized in I ask what civil engineers civil engineers um and and from different companies the two Town Consulting engineering firms so there are two companies so when I listened to this um my first question seems to be I mean there's a lot of engineering that we' heard about um good engineering engineering obviously you guys know your but I think to myself what do this have to do with lot of I haven't heard one phrase we are a rural community we all moved up here for the rural aspects um for to keep our H place to have our agal businesses to have a quiet Country Life and it has felt certainly in the past few years and Mr G is new here um the public works now determining what our town is going to look like how it's going to function and operate um these engineering things are extensive um they hit a little bit of I work have worked very very closely with thema for many many years and they hit a little bit of some of the things we talk about the disaster the oh my God things allit all Val what if this happens what if this storm comes what happens if we have another um but there's not one plan for and and I I thought the the time was great this is a great and it did not Happ and now every year it's less of a great place to live because of the sort of overreach of what has happened in our public departments um so one of the things I could said to council is every single thing that you do every single decision that you make as engine how does this keep this town world how does this protect the character of the I understand safety um I was in carane I ran the largest and longest running HSE of Lea ever in the United States hist um so we're very closely I understand about now do I have a Time minute three minutes yes oh we still have the three minutes I thought this was a workshop it would be a okay so I'll talk I will have to talk back or some will have to um so did you I'm sorry I didn't know I had the pr time time on so as I listen to The Reserve their and I feel mine is being taken very quickly very adeptly again I appreciate what you're working what you're trying to do but just the drainage stuff that's now happening I call it drainage demolition I look at the trees that have come down um when you talk about you're talking about water you know contained water one of the things that I understand that Engineers do it's about this free of water into the canals and the drainage systems and and very complex things but every tree that we take down every tree draws up 30,000 gallons of water and diverts 60 to 70,000 gallons into the ooper um the p Panama Canal study one of the reasons they do not have enough water is the deforestation of Panama because they've lost their ground we have o to that need protection at all costs at our we have lost 300,000 we're losing more again as I see you know the what I again call the the you know the demolition derby of the drainage um as we rip up these trees we are not looking to put as much water as quickly into the Chanel system we are looking to slow and retain that water and divert it into our ERS that is the key here for us and we will lose our wells quickly we've already had the water table Dro 8 feet by Wesley I lost trees we're getting different quality of water in our wells maybe someday we will be forced to do City water but none of us want it right now we're dependent on our wells so as I see this I'm like I feel um like I'm being Steamrollers over by very competent Engineers who don't live here and who have no vested interest in riding their horse down a road or in having a wfee habitat or in having trees that have shaded these streets for Millennia or in having wide easements that we planted and enjoyed and on 160 P 12T Road 24t evenings and that is being taken away as far as the roads go one of the things I would suggest for everybody in the council is that we do a community planner um I have one in mind who's a personal friend we don't have to use him but the concept that you're creating a community that acts like a community that functions as a community that reserves what is special this community um I contacted a hydrologist recently about my own property so that we could preserve um the things there and we'll we'll have a meeting about that um legally we've had a lot of issues about all of the so many of these roads and these easts have been privately owned again for there's been no legal documentation that says we suddenly have okay I'm sorry debie but we have a two-hour meeting and we we gave you double time is there so I need to move on to the next public comment okay thank you next Miss sui well then okay technically she had your time and then you don't get any time is that I mean you know we have a two-hour meeting and we have eight items to get through I'm sorry we have all these we have all these Engineers all these planners they don't live here so whatever decision we make and I think it's a great idea to have some type of community plan the community inut for the overall look feel of our community so whatever we do and whatever we finalize do need to understand all these efforts are great and it's nice to hear them tell all the resumes whatever and all their plans but this is a unique town andil we need to make sure that we have the community input for final decision because this is our home thank you any yes one of the things that the engineers did not mention is that a sign ific part of the scoring for the resilient Florida Grant was that it requires public Outreach we built it into I I noticed that I was just mention thank you okay do we have any more public comment on yes may okay Virginia standage 15410 North Road um I would ask when you do your water planning you educate yourselves and inform the public of what allowances there are for Rural communities in their use of water we do not need to be the city I hear you saying we're going with South PARTA Water Management guidelines but I would like to hear what the guidelines are for ad communi I'm not hearing anything mentioned about that and I'm concerned that by not researching that not investigating that you're throwing away opportunities for land owners in our community um and I think it's your fiduciary responsibility to educate yourselves and inform us on this matter of what is available for an Agricultural community and perhaps we don't have to be under such a microscope as other communi in addition I would encourage you to check off for alternate sources of powering through water pumps or any other equipment and I realize a lot of money has been put into repairing pumps but as we purchase new equipment all the time perhaps you need to look at what's the cost of a more efficient pump can we use solar part of the time can we use diesel what are our options rather than oh it costs $1,000 eight hours to run the Electric I ask you to expand your horizons and information and get that information for the public in the community in addition I encourage you I've said this before and I'll do it myself if I have to get the actual FEMA manual and compare it line by line to the FEMA ordinance that this town has prepared thank you mayor yeah I need to clarify by a statement I made in reference to South Florida management several times we are following the south Florida Water Management guidelines within the confines of the town the district's 20-year permit that 20-year permit is for our rural community it is not based on standards for another Community it is based on standards for our community correct I just wanted to clarify that thank you for clearing that up that is an accurate statement thank you ma'am I was there when it was done anybody else yes one more uh Miss enina 2834 long time no see now I got tons of warnings and I'm sure other people do too about the danger of speaking and speaking that leads people pause why is that every meeting every little bit we hear about code enforcement code enforcement code it's there's no differ different in this and the amount of money that's being pulled out of the residents to pay for whatever to go and make them pay but going to give them a plan that they're going to go and pay off that c and pay for this and pay for that this town what made this great is you had the billionaire and the millionaire living next to the guy that had next to nothing but 10 cents to work together and that's part of what made this town right okay it's not just for the wealthiest wealthiest as some a town next door we need in order to and we don't want to lose that we don't want to lose our ad carry it we don't want to lose it so to say it's the great place to live the great place to live is to know what you're getting into and I for the life of me have not known what I'm getting into since I started here we started here before the town was incorporated we read the neighborhood time we thought we knew what we were getting this kind is scary it's town to live in by now it's a thema the whole thema thing it's been abuse abuse for a handful of people that were sitting here not even less than a handful of people who wanted to have the female insurance and I remember Todd sitting there and saying as long we want the incented that it does not interfere with our agricultural rights our right to par and what's happening what's been happening it's got to be a different answer and no it's not just about drainage everybody knows the Achilles heal to agriculture is water retention when you don't have water without water it's just about any agricultureal just about I mean from the horses to the nurseries and everything in between so having that water and pumping that back that is one of the major things I am actually agreeing about in this plan and that is getting those pumps back in so we can get some more back up north but how to do it and how to go about it and what kind of plan go about it to go and do this what kind of CAS what kind of method of how this town is going to pay for it these meents come for it what is being post here it's not in the parts it just isn't and it's always the little guys would have to you have to get you know Southern I'm assuming no I don't have the proof in my hands but I'm assuming that we're allowing dve dry ponds to go all the way through from Southern all the way into Al Canal to go and ruin the waters and colleting can that we then have to get it's not okay thank you protecting the little thank you okay we have some lights on up here Phyllis I'm gonna be a while because this was my item I've been wanting on the agenda for a while so I'm really sad to hear that you feel our town is going backwards because this is what I remember and I've been here for over 30 years okay this town got my attention in 2012 when I realized you can't blame these guys this crap has been going on since before 2012 okay we have had abusive people running our water districts so please don't blame these guys okay I got to tell you in 2017 when we implemented the F the FDA the flood plane application let's start in ' 06 we became a town we cut and paste everybody else's codes we're town then what happened what happened we just all went back to our lives we had a town so in 2017 we were under a management company that I felt was not very friendly towards our residents so we ended up with this FEMA flood plane now sorry you guys are so happy you have your ad classification or ex which comes from the state of Florida not necessarily Palm Beach County no you're protected by the state of Florida you are you are the Farm Act is the state of Florida okay you can't have it both ways okay the State of Florida is also now regulating our water okay and as they said we're not going to get the grants we need because our infrastructure has fallen apart from neglect for years so 2017 we joined the FEMA flood planate okay and then what happened same thing as when we became a a town nothing we had no standards put into place it was free reign for any engineer that got a site plan to put in a farm on five acres which ended up being absorbant costly for the residents with I have seen crazy things done in these site plans that had no benefit to the person that had to pay for this now the FDA why are we filling in historic ditches because right here we have private cult Culver SES and ditches so every time ditches are getting filled in because of these FDA you're flooding the other neighbors are you kidding me this is not working why are we we are a closed a closed water Community right please help me with the verbage a closed system all right why are we filling in our historic ditches there's a reason for them to be there and when they're filled in it is extremely costly our people own five 10 and 20 acres and sometimes more do you know what it cost to fill in ditches around a 20 acre parcel are you kidding me so we have done no justice and it's not their fault it is the management we've been hiring so finally we have a manager that has put together a team that is giving us information this is information that we have never gotten okay and I'm glad to have it I've never had a presentation on water like this before never so now you guys have no I'm not yelling anybody now you guys have paved roads you let the town know you wanted pave roads you didn't care how the pave roads got done you just didn't want the dust let me tell you about the dust that you had to suck since 2017 that came from the previous management because he hired a public works director from down south that wanted nothing to do but put in paved roads nothing and he didn't really care how they were done because you can see we're fixing it all now these guys are stuck with the task of fixing the roads in the canal from the Damage Done since 2017 so I'm here too I'm here with you I want the same thing as you but unfortunately we have upper echelon of government and it goes all the way to the Feds all right and we do have to play We you guys cannot you don't want your taxes raised I don't want to raise your taxes where are we going to get the money to fix years and years and years of neglect we've got to play with the feds we've got to play with the county and hopefully we could keep our rural designation we could keep our rural lifestyle and we could fight still for what we will not have in this town but unfortunately we're to the point now to be able to rebuild and fix the things that we have we have to play with these people now so I find it really upsetting after sitting here for six years and going into our 7th that people feel that our town is going backwards and that is very disheartening to me I feel that these people we have a team now we have a different team and they are giving us the information to work with so please list just hear what they have to say you don't have to agree with them regarding the visioning and the workshops we've been doing it we've been doing it over and over again we've had visioning and workshops and then we've had some suggestions to bring back some visioning and workshops and we've had some councils that perhap perhaps prefer not to do that but you have in different Council now so please let's give these guys a chance let's try to fix our town if you drive down the road you could see where our previous Machinery has destroyed people's coverts all over town you see the coverts chewed up you know and we have people that do need coverts installed and maybe we need to do that townwide just like we did roads but can we afford it and where are we going to get the money there you go from the county and the FEDS so we've have no choice but to work with them so I I'm sorry if I offended anybody but this FDA has been a thorn in my side since 2017 I have never been able to understand it nobody has ever been able to explain to me what our standards are how do we assist these engineers in doing right by our people to make their site plans but but to keep their cost down and do only what is necessary other than what the owner may want above that so that's why I'm here today because that's what I want to learn about so I'm sorry if I offended anybody but that's what I had to say Laura just no we have a two-hour meeting we are 40 minutes left of it and seven more items do so hold on ask to work together if you can't respond to her question then how can you work together this is why I like our Workshop 58 minutes of all this and they had 12 minutes response well I'm sorry but that's not the that's not the way public meetings work I'm terribly sorry we run under Robert's Rules and that's just simply not the way it works she can make a public comment at the beginning of the next item Laura I I don't want to insult any of the one two three four five engineers in the room this particular section to me is the sky is falling fear tactic to force us into borrowing big debt not anywhere in this presentation did I hear wow we really need to clean out some of our culverts first before we go building new ones Our Town retention is just our canals no Town retention is ponds Town retention is permeable land areas Town retention are ditches and swes that residents have not maintained this needs to be enforced before we go spending $80 million we need bigger canals no um our water disaster in 2012 is a perfect example of the Town not being able to handle its water no that was an epic fail of a t of a uh water district manager with his fingers in his ears on a trip to Switzerland and nobody opened the freaking Gates yeah that was a train wreck so you know again all of this fear wrong absolutely wrong what we need out of a report like this besides the education that you mentioned is Common Sense we need to encourage residents to participate and have better behavior and responsibility in maintaining their land do I like do I like going out and cleaning out the little ditches that lead to my we and my drainage structures I hate it it's part of the joy of living here is it a pain in the tush to keep my trees maintained yeah but that way I'm not impeding the road you know there there are so many things in this first section that are flat out missed um and we do have more than one choice of putting out our hands to the fed and the state saying we need money we need we need we need we need we need we need we need what we need is a little bit of Common Sense and a little bit of enforcement on the residents to do their parts think about this analogy I have 11 linear miles of fence on my property is it all in the best shape no is it all still standing yeah depends how hard the wind blows on some days am I going to go to Home Depot and plunk down x amount of cash and hire the dudes to fix my 11 line lar miles of fence no I'm going to do what I can I'm going to do the first things first to try and encourage this Council to push us towards Mega borrowing and running the residence into debt or bonds or whatever else it is that we can do to have $80 million fell from the sky is like giving the kid a 50 to go into the candy store when all he wants is a pack of gum I I I can't get behind all of this I can't I'm not denying that some of the knowledge in here is important and pertinent but you would never get my support for an $80 million plan never thank you Robert yeah thank you madam chair um I kind of looked at this differently I mean I do agree you know I've never been in favor of huge borrowing and tax burden this town is debt-free with the exception of I think two tractor payments maybe three now and those are three years loans or leases so it's a very unique situation for a town especially in Palm Beach County um but you know this um you know there will be two public meetings regarding this resiliency plan but this is the basis like they said this is the basis of the infrastructure evaluating the entire town the infrastructure how we manage it how we do our flood plan where do we get our storage from you know what happens in a large event a small event so this this is so key um what they're doing here I I'm disappointed to hear it won't be ready till 2025 you know I I hope it can be a little quicker but it it is what it is but um That's the basis then these big numbers don't scare me because when you go for these grants that's what you got to show you got to show a need and these aren't matching grants we're designated rural community these are grants available to like the mayor said huge dollars for uh water retention environmental area Park area you know so there's a lot of big big money out there available to those in need and and you have to show the need so um where I do you know the the bond thing doesn't scare me today because I don't think that's what we're talking about we're talking about you know big picture needs for grants in the future I hope the resiliency program comes through as quick as possible the FDA this we're in a conundrum you have our FDA program as far as I've experienced it because I've done two properties that I own fdas is store your water don't let it off okay that isolates me from the rest of the world so that eliminates any water from coming back on my property my big pond I have that could be surge retention for the canal and stuff like that so it's kind of a conundrum because when the canals fill up you would like that water to go back to areas that are low that can handle the water because you want to retain and recharge that water table you don't want to send it out to c-51 my opinion is the last thing you want to do is open a gate you want to do everything you can possibly in the town to let that fresh water it just came from the heavens filter through the system and recharge the aquafer and our water supplies so but you know it's it's one or the other some people complain that you know when something backed up water went back on their property and you know there's some concerns about that what was in that water that got on my property so it's really a tough situation you can't have it both ways if you put in that Weir and you block that water from coming on your property you block your water from going to the canal until that Weir overflows so it it it's definitely a Crossroads in the FDA program I think there's a new approach coming looking at bigger picture properties not just everybody isolate with your BMS and create these little pockets and block all the cross flow where all of a sudden areas that historically have drained can no longer drain so but uh they are big numbers yes they're they're scary big numbers but when you're going for Grants you have to show that my opinion so thank thank you mam CH you're welcome um yeah I I also see it a little bit differently I I'm in agreement with a lot of things were said and disagreement with a lot um so I too am not in favor of borring never have been so um and I don't I did not hear any of this presentation tonight being about borrowing funds I heard it about I heard it about giving a overview of what was historically so historically we had 20 acre sections and there was drainage between all of those sections if you look on the original plaed maps you can see that unfortunately with the development that has happened throughout the town like I have one of those 20 foot one of those ditches from a 20 foot section right next to my property and the gentleman who just built his beautiful new house on the property next toward to me has now planted cuses right in the middle of that drainage ditch right down all the way down the fence line when I put my fence up there I purposely put it up so it would not impede that that Swale that went through the property so what I hear and what I understand from having conversation with Mr Gant and perhaps it didn't communicate effectively is that what is being done now is an effort to go out and identify because sometimes they're buried by kusas like the one next to my house is now identify those original what were here when we were in Orange Grove when we were an agricultural solely agricultural existence swes open them back up and get the natural flow of what was designed then going within the community that's what I understand is happening at this time in order to do that we have a lot of infrastructure issues this is something that that I campaigned on this is something that I was opposed to all of the laying of asphalt that happened over the last six years without of these infrastructure issues happening first as Mr Gant said we're growing whether we like it or not we're growing we're developing we have more traffic the roads and the drainage are intricately connected you can't do one without the other and we can't exist unfortunately without both so I appreciate the presentation I appreciate the thoroughness of it I I think it's alarming I think the number is alarming but I think you understand clearly if you didn't before you certainly do now that this Council and I can't believe any Council that sits in this town would ever approve $80 million worth of bonds or loans we we're not a community that would ever would ever grant that so it it would have to be a full Grant not a matching Grant even it would have to be a full Grant and um you know it would have to be to try to repair existing systems and examining them to make make sure that they preserve the ruralness of our community that they allow the farmer to keep farming that they allow the equestrian to keep watering their horses that they allow the chicken farmer to keep watering their chickens that they allow the green pepper farmer to keep watering their fields whatever it is that we have we have so many different rural aspects to our community that that's what's really really important um and that they allow just the person that just likes living out here to be able to flush their toilet um you know really bottom line so um thank you for the presentation I I was very committed I will say and I apologize for seeming abrupt to keep this meeting to 8:00 and have in fact made an appointment afterwards so can we move as quickly as possible I think that that was the bulk of the agenda that if you want to read Valerie the next title discussion on roadway standards discussion on roadway standards do we have a B P public comment on this section uh yes from Miss Marshall okay yeah sections because the overall presentation course a lot of so this is on the roadways that's correct so um I've talked about these roadways before and again um it FS to I think this concept of community planner the person I worked with is is Works internationally again at making a community feel like a community so but one of the things you notice very quickly on again when they decided to pave the roads not actually against Paving I'm against the way that it's done um we've always had again the yield grow um the community planner the national Transportation safety board um put out an article that said two-way roads are not the safest in the residential Community 14ot roads are are safer than that but 12 foot um is one of the safest Road wids uh there are and 11 foot is actually the safest most Community planners goes with the 12 foots and call it a 12 roads which is exactly what we had here on the canal Banks um if you go down North Sea Road and North Road they are dangerous every car that goes down is still across the double yellow line which is not legal um and so there is no everybody has right away there is no Canal bank no longer has right away so those roads are actually they're dangerous and they are actually illegal um so my recommendation again was to look at the road design with the 12 fo road which is what national transportation state considers the safest um and what this community planner again uses very very commonly um if 12 foot yield road because somebody does have to yield right away right now nobody has to yield right away and the road's not wide enough to um inass traffic and it also um one of the people I talked to was the auto insurance litigator for geo who's now retired so they can talk to you when they're retired um and he said this incurs enormous liability for the town if there's any accident on any of the roads that can be C back roads down the town is liable um if unfortunately we had some to go in the canals and dies a wrongful death lawsuit would be he thought slammed onr thank you Mr s hello council members by the way I'm an engineer and I do [Laughter] live in international organizations risk manag first of all thank you I think the Town Council in this um effort to assess risks and mitigate is tremendously valuable um I would like to jump to the end result a little bit I think that's where we all having some difficulty so when this analysis is done on what are our assets our physical assets our homes our residences government assets our lands plants animals all those things and our water table water table quality natural assd and then what are the risks blood risk hurricane risk all kind of risks and the end result of that we will have is what is the risk risk meaning what is the dollar risk and what is the life so I will talk about the end result because I think that will help clarify some of the issu so after their analysis is done which I think is exactly the approach they mind this is not their thinking this is the thinking of federal best practices so I think the study is beautifully done so there are three things that will come out of it when you when you understand the risk so let's say we have a risk of100 million to all the roads and canals and lands you you have three things you can do with it mitigate it I think we discussing a lot about mitigation you can mitigate it 1% you can say Okay 999 million can be destroyed let's just say critical1 Million worth of Roads around key schools and towns or you can 100% I think these big numbers 100 million and this and that is from that thinking let's mitigate it 100% you don't have to the second thing you can do is live with it I think we are a rural town we have gone through somebody game and we can all decide if you want to live with some some R okay and that's what this 100 mile this 14 mile I am you know that thinking come with it when the P will go down go deal with it and the third thing is ensure it I think this angle we haven't just discussed yet but with this sort of information we can seek some insurance so by in in conclusion what I would like to say is let's not jump I I also think it's premature to have ideological resist to fonds or loaning money so let's say $1 million loan saves $100 million for the town and we don't have that 1 million today and we can't get it from the gr today I think be never so that thank you again beautiful effort thank you m py sui might put um just a couple different things I was reading through the standards and I know it's just a discussion it's probably in the beginning stages some things stood out um evaluating future maintenance plan staff is in the process of staing the standards establish the standards as a starting point but I think the final standards for whatever we want our roads to look like in our community needs to be established by the community so put the safety standards in or the recommendations or what's needed whatever the final product is and before we put the samp on the final product product make sure that the community the residents all of you that call it home makes the look of what they want their Community we take all the experts everything that staff puts together and then the community comes up with the final standards I think that's important the other thing that um stood out in a lot of these descriptions grid roads subdivisions all the of six different six different seven different things was um adjacent drainy J and I said it before and I'm going to say it again your easement documents is the kitchen sink I talk to people in this town they do are very reluctant to sign something that says drainage easement utility roadway because there are stipulations if it's used for the roadway what could happen to that e for a State statue so what was happening with I'm going to bring up Mr Su they separated his document he gave a easement for drainage it will always be more drainage always an easement Robert because Robert was trying to clarify that at one time he also gave an easement for roadways which according to our statute it it's used for the roadway it's maintained title D for the Statue and all the attorneys have waited so I think you'd get an easier time if we check our documents please please please separate the Lang make sure that people understand what it is I think you'll get much better result with drainage issues and the other thing that I hadn't yet turn know it's the beginning when we talk about private roads there was a something that jumped out at me about Redevelopment and I may not understand it but they were encouraging people to access the already established easement system um and it may subject to private challenging um I just hope that we're not encouraging it was number six and I might have misread it I hope we're not encouraging residents to sue each other so thanks okay I'm going to try to address that last thing that you spoke about because I had the same question and I asked it prior to the meeting so it's my understanding that we have at least one case in town where there's a currently a property under development that was originally a larger parcel I think 38 originally or more and that it's been subdivided into five Parcels okay the Eid the way it reads right now only allows four Parcels to have access off of that EIT so basically the guy in the back is out of luck okay he can't under the current situation use that isman so it's a complex way of them trying to get around our codes and the easements that exist already to allow that resident in back basically to have access to his property that's just one case that's going on right now so that's what that language is addressing there very unique situations it's not all situations but it's very unique situations that you know if you get neighbors that love each other no problem but if you get neighbors that don't particularly like each other the guy in back could be in a world of trouble okay that's that's did I did I say that well did I answer that correctly yeah I think that it's important to add something here this conversation is because it hasn't really been had in total before and one of the things that um we don't talk about enough is that we're trying to fit squares and round holes our code was written without what everyone is talking about here the community involvement and engagement and if there was Community involvement and engagement well there wasn't any application at the time that would make anybody see how it doesn't work today and what we have is we have lots of private easements across smaller properties on the day that we incorporated more than half of the parcels in town were non-conforming lots meaning that they were less than 5 Acres today we have people coming in and buying multiple non-conforming Lots which is great because it makes them less non-conforming but when it puts them together than the easements that previously existed on those properties and I'm not an attorney so I'm not going to try to explain it but for some reason or another and I know that some of you have heard my stories about these or even experienced it something somehow or another is ments that existed for drainage and roads on those individual properties they go away and our code the way it is written does not serve our drainage system it says you can only have four people use the direct access off a Culver Bridge so and you also have to have 200 ft of Frontage I understand the original reasoning and logic of that as you step back and you look at a map but when people are actually buying and selling property then it doesn't work anymore because you end up putting cul Bridges every other property and that's not going to be something we want to have to manage or maintain or cause a cost for our residents or people to come in and have to do that so what we're trying to do here is put the cards on the table and fix the problem the other statement that wasn't made with regard to the resilient Florida Grant the reason for the resilient Florida Grant the number one reason for the Brazilian Florida Grant besides getting a handle on the infrastructure that we have and have to maintain not with new standards with the existing standards that are in our code today we don't meet our own standards the second piece of it is how we tailor those standards to better need the better meet the needs of today's community that has a combination of large lots and some of these existing non-conforming lots that haven't become you know Consolidated yet we need to go back and clean out the ditches we need to reestablish the stuff that was already here I don't know if we're going to be able to ever meet the standard that we have for our canals with a 2 to1 slope we don't have the room we don't have the time we don't have the money we're going to have to get creative and inventive to come up with something else you know so nothing was talked about today is hard and fast except that we've got a hundred years of deferred maintenance we're not talking about a new drainage system it's the same drainage system we're not talking about a different kind of Lifestyle we're talking about trying to get it to the 5 acre lifestyle that works five acres and more lifestyle that works we're trying to get rid of non-conforming or help non-conforming become more noncon less non-conforming or more conforming and I guess you see my point we have a passion to do this these Engineers have been working very diligently and the flood plane will be the crowning glory of the Brazilian Florida Grant because we will be looking at the town in terms of its watersheds and its natural flow and that way we won't be looking at it on individual properties one of the things I expected to come up is how we have to address historic drainage measures on properties adjacent to new owners who have to meet today's drainage standards so when we get the Brazilian Florida in place we'll be able to start getting rid of the things in FEMA that don't work like indivisual property water retention you know one of the things I didn't see addressed on this road section was and I think it needs to be addressed in here is how how to address the fact that there are a number of instances throughout the town where people use the maintenance eement as their roadway um and so those are roadways that aren't even addressed here they are that is right and they are roadways they're being used as Redway so I think that you know that needs to be it needs to be addressed it needs to be addressed in this section are we going to allow it are we not going to allow it if we're knocking on out which it it's not supposed to be being done and we're not going to allow it it then we got to address how we're not going to allow it if we are going to go ahead and allow it we have to look at a reclassification or whatever we have to do to get that to happen so that it's legal so part of the issue with that is in 1979 the lock Sai grow water Control District decided because of all the building that was going on in here and everybody putting all these CS in um they put a moratorium on CS so when they did that their moratorium and I have a copy of it if any of you want to see it I actually have a copy of it sitting on my desk um because I knew that this would come up um that moratorium stated and this is why also why we have so many bridges around town if you wanted AC c a new Crossing across one of our canals either you needed to have a freestanding bridge that had no flow restrictions or talk with your neighbor about driving on the main inside of the canal to access your property or talk to your neighbor about using their cul to go back please send us all a cop now I have not found of course I'm still looking because I literally have an entire safe full of stuff and an entire room full of file cabinets um so I'm still perusing a lot of this stuff but since 1979 I never found anything that res sended that moratorium now of course obviously we're allowing people to build colberts but for whatever period of time that that that board said that this moratorium shall stand they made them build Bridges that's probably how we W up with West SE West D all these West whatever roads um you know we've got people on collecting Canal that are you that are the second at C that are using the maintenance easement to get to their property and the guy the person to the south of them that faces collecting Canal has that easement on their property to allow the next guy to get onto their property um and it's all over the town and it's from that it's got to be from that moratorium is the only thing that makes sense we got to do something about it so whatever phis so I'm a little confused so you're talking about the sale of a landlock property no I'm talking about the that that you were talking about earlier right right so you so you have to if you're going to buy a landlock property title company makes you sign off on that that you have no you have right you have no driveway they can't insure it so unless you're a neighbor that is buying the property and you will have Ingress ESS through your original property I I don't know why we're making special concession for somebody that bought a landlock property and I'm not sure how they bought that landlock property unless they were a neighbor we're talking about somebody who recently bought a whole parcel and is subdividing it and who can't subdivide well they code well then they can't end the story done and please talk to the title companies that you work with because they they will give you the information we're talking about we're talking about landlock proper to the landlock property situation okay so thank you for that discussion next item review proposed cver ordinance and revision to the permit authorization and maintenance agreement okay public comment on this uh Miss copia congratulations was married I know congratulations just drive um am I talking well so this is really just continuation what you said so on every single title that's on a property in this town there are easements and they say different things and I'm going to throw it out here because I haven't got a call back from the town my home does not have a road eent on there a survey where someone was on my proper I will tell you that I'm more than happy to help this town make something good happen I'm more than happy to get a road in front of my house but if you step foot of my property again there's a new problem do not survey my property I have no Road us on my neighbors do but there's not any from mine in any recorded any title all the way back and so I think that's one of the problems that you're going to see so that's my personal problem now we'll talk about the other ones um all the other titles if you look at stuff they're all back and we can talk about maybe the incompetent or they didn't care back in the day that some of the titles didn't convey properly and if you look back farther you'll find different easements that didn't go to the next title those are Title Insurance problems 100% they're not our problems I'm sorry and I hope I'm not eventually but I'm sorry but if you don't research your stuff or you don't hire someone who's competent to do so then you may end up with a if you have a landlock property that's not a good bu or maybe you just want to L property I don't know um but there's lots of things like that and there's lots of uh utility easements I have utilities I'm not a utility easement I'm not sure why they're there it's a different fight um but most of the properties have been EAS some way or another and I think truly like I like I said I'm not here to tell you get off my property I'm going to fight you to the death I'm not giving you an inch I'm here to just talk about like maybe we can get together and come up with reasonable options so we can get done what really needs to happen in the town and when you have uh like Mr GL was saying that there's a number of people that are using this roadway that's not really a roadway maybe we really just need to have like a small group discussion about I mean they're going to fight it out I mean everyone's going to fight and there's going to be something doesn't like it there's going to be some people like it whatever but eventually we're all big people and hopefully we get together and make some sort of plan for this group of people that are using this not roadway for their roadway or whatever but I think we all just have to be rups and trying to figure out how to make happen in this town what we want to what that starts with the beginning is the plan making sure at least the majority of folks are on board with the plan and then moving forward from there rather than trying to what I'm seeing on my property is you're just going to take it whether I like it or not and that's not going to happen thank you Miss suuchi said it was a 6 meeting and I have so and I know we're at the beginning whole bunch of problems get section and I hope we before we finalize it we hammer it out some of the big glaring things is um some of the ambiguous language and the words and the the U decision making sole discretion of the district to determine something um I had a real issue with um some of the additional complaints for drainage works I couldn't think of the word when I was talking to somebody call on the phone and then talking about the potential for negative effect are we now hiring psychic and we're going to code en Force for have violations for potential negative effects because I'd like to maybe get my cards read by this new psychic that were H how much they going to be harder um some of the other ones and I I brought it up before uniform standards bring up the standards give us a guideline give us an issue but before any uniform standards come out I think the community needs to make sure that we know what the standards are and we as a community who lives here besides what the unform standards will be I have an issue with the violation section stood out huge it targets everybody it doesn't matter because culs that might have been fixed in the last hurricane in one of the hurricanes in 2005 there was a different set of standards as they're required now some culs and bridges aren't permitted so now they're all in violation and um it's left up to whose discretion so lots of work on this section I hope we do come up with um changing a lot of the um underlining and making sure that it's not just targeting and being left up to staff to make the decision public comment other public comments Miss Nina coming we have all these Engineers here that I wanted to hear talk uh you know first ofage district drainage Works remember the a seal is having water not just draining it and we need to focus on that and focus Less on inviting ourselves into private property and trying to get every cber redone that is in this town there are culs in here that have been in for a long time they're functioning just fine if they're not that start it and we let roads collapse like we did way back when on bad that's a different story and we all know what happened there whether we want to admit it or not but this whole policy or ordinance that is being written seems like it's an over burdening on the residents not are help for us to maintain and or it it it I mean I I don't even know where to begin and where to end this has to be read through line by line and we on and I don't know if any of you had read this line by line but this these this be totally again it's it's it's just overbearing and the the brainage distance has fin to become much more than just deal with our canals and and the water that's coming in it's trying to regulate every single person that's what it feel like best so please look at this again just kind of go through it figure out what's right for the people and stop trying to be thank thank you any other public comments that's all okay Laura you had your light on is that that's on isn't it yeah it's yeah okay it's like not really bright but I thought it was on okay go ahead um I don't know if this fits in this category or not but when we're talking about standards what do we do when less than two years ago a resident was told man build a BM okay so the resident builds a BM now we're telling resident burm no bueno we're going to take your burm away Did we tell Did we tell the resident that yeah well they're kind of taking BMS yeah so okay what you know are are we working against ourselves are we just kind of doing what we think is right so in the the conversation of things you know our standards we need okay we're going to set a standard today but how is that going to be applied to people who did things under other stand other standards my D please just ask you one favor sure if you could let any one of us know who that is outside of the meeting because not any of us are aware of that and we certainly would want to fix that um the lady who does our fdas is sitting right at the table so Laura I just used it for an example good example we all obviously became aware of today because we were all texted and emailed and I believe that I was t or Emil what I've determined so far what odly incidental situation um especially since the person it's it's I believe it's be looked into right this minute okay so um so yeah I think it was um uh a misunderstanding and I I'm not really sure but I agree um and it's difficult just like what do we do about situations where subpar road work was put down on areas where no drainage was put down and then we have to come back and we have to clean it up and we have to fix it and we have to go back and put in that drainage and the people already or changeing easement that was done then yeah tramped over I mean it it's a it's a difficult situation and I think that what we have to do which has come up out of a lot of people's mouths tonight is we have to find a way for the town and the residents to work together I think that as long as there's resident input I think we're all pretty reasonable people as manou said you know that we all can be reasonable people but I think that um if there's one takeaway from tonight for for you guys um it should definitely be that people in lockah Hatchi don't like it when you go onto their property and uh put survey Stakes or when they even even think you're going to do something like that and that there really needs to be conversations and I know we had a convers ation at a meeting last month about you know a list and making sure that we were in communication with the residents and speaking to them and having conversations with them in language that everybody can understand not in a bunch of legal ease um which speaks of big government and overnment which is not what this town was founded on this town was founded on being government like um and when you look at an ordinance a proposed ordinance like this one this is not a government light ordinance this really needs to in my opinion go back to the drawing board and be written in a way where um there's a little bit more concern for preservation of the rights of the citizens I understand your goal I understand that there has to be some kind of uh standard for coverts I understand that there has to be some accommodation for failing and failed coverts throughout the town both public and private but this is too much it has to be it has to be reworked it just does in my opinion Robert yeah thank you um my comment where we have all these Engineers here is let's use them yeah I want to hear them well now the FDA thing has been many different Engineers coming into town trying to understand what they want and I think it's important that we standardize what we want and you don't necessarily have to have an engineer we have all these Engineers reviewing it let the surveyor it's an elevation situation it's this covert this size it's this compensating storage that's all done by surveys and cut and fill calculations that surveyors do so to require an engineer be involved so the engineer can review the engineer when it's all about elevations on a survey I think is is C costing the land owners a lot of money and it's this it's going many different ways and you see the Code Enforcement cases on FDA you know it takes six months I'm not pointing the finger at anybody it's it's understanding what do we want so hopefully out of this there's some standardization that an engineer Can it can be simple enough for them to understand or a surveyor I think a certified survey because ultimate that's the document that proves that the work was done properly in the flood plane is the certified survey so you got to pay a surveyor certified then you got to pay an engineer to I guess stamp something on the survey then our Engineers review the engineers Who provided the survey from the certified surveyor so if if there's a way to make it simpler and more cost effective um let let's try to do it and I think one of the ways is let the surveyor do what they need to do and prove what needs to be done and prove that it was done thank you okay that's it oh sorry phis go ahead so um I agree I would like to see the residents of this town not have to hire Engineers you guys are the ones that are looking out for our water our system so I would like to see that cost you know actually where they can work with our town engineers and their surveyors and their planner so I you know how do you guys is that a possibility that the town's people can work with you because then you would have the standard we're not working with an engineer from Tampa an engineer from Miami an engineer from nor North Palm they're working with you guys who have one way of doing things depending on the property within the town can I would like to hear from one of you guys I mean please go Randy I R's ready to go with the uh flood plane compensating storage it it's just to try to be to clarify it this is actually a state statute that is uh any property within the c-51 flood plane so any property that discharges into the West Palm Beach Canal is governed by a set of regulations that's been set in place since 1986 but we're not arguing that we don't need the flood plane it's the cost of the engineering and not for the guy building the big equestrian facility he doesn't care he's got an engineer in his pocket it's for the little guy there is guidelines on water management districts website these guidelines have been shared with residents with with various questions it it is a a few step process in order to to actually demonstrate that uh you are meeting the flood plane compensating storage criteria so there is there are stepbystep ways to to demonstrate that does it require an engineer to do those calculations no it it does not require an engineer to actually uh do the math for those calculations um Mr Shore it's not something that surveyors normally get involved with with the flood plane compensating storage calculations as far as having the town Consultants um work on behalf of the residents in order to yes it's a liability corre so if you guys screw up then it's on us if they have to do work later yes and and if they but they don't need an engineer is what you just said I'm saying an engineer you don't necessarily have to have an engineer to understand those calculations I'd have to double check to see if it's town code that you have a engineer do those calculations I can tell you within Palm Beach County they do allow surveyors to submit site plans on behalf of the project however the county will require an engineer to be involved if they feel that it's it's necessary for the drainage plan so it really depends on if you're within the flood zone if you're impacting your residents and if the the county feels that you are uh that your property needs to be reviewed by an engineer so it's a different code that the profession Prof Engineers are governed by compared to your professional survey and I'm not picking on you guys it's just what I've seen out there has been very expensive and egregious and a lot of things as we spoke about earlier were unnecessary for the property and if the land owner is not there able to be there every day and see what's going on then surprise you've got a dry retention pond on your 5 acre horse farm okay Mr you had a too oh just to your point about the engineers locations the vast majority of the engineers that do work in the town of locki groves will live within five miles of this place so one of them is seon which is right over there storm water J their offic is in Jupiter DKK their offices is in Royal Palm um those are the three main ones that do most the work in the town um the guidelines are on mun code or in the South Water Management District's we website they're written I mean they the our requirements are not that daunting um if a surveyor wanted to do the survey and then a homeowner wanted to try to Cal try to battle with the uh compensating storage calculations I'm sure they're wealth and their right to do that the issue becomes if they're wrong and teror reviews and says they're wrong then it goes back to the owner then the owner tries to do it again s to terara they're still wrong and meanwhile tera's charging for her time every time this goes back and forth so that in reality it could actually cost a homeowner more in reviews because she can't tell them how to fix it because it's the same liability so she can't tell them what's wrong with it she can just tell them it's wrong this is what you you need to fix this either the calculations wrong The Depths wrong whatever the issue is with the permid just like we do to the engineers we do this to the to the to the engineers work for the home owners as well and the Home and these Engineers have the education have the license and should have the knowledge on how to read our codes which are similarly based off of what other municipalities do as well so they sometimes you get Engineers that just try to shortcut the system or they're just kind of whipping it out or they get some intern to put these things together and then they sign a sealing and submit them and hope that they get pasted which happens a lot as well and we can't control what a what a private engineering firm does I used to deal with that across the street all the time I'd have Engineers submit stuff and literally I was your QA Department um I would and I just it gets tiring to try to explain to Engineers look you're doing all this wrong and then they get it back and then try to fix it and whatever again they're trying to save their client money meanwhile they're still doing things wrong and they're cling their client money and doing so well the truth of the matter is it would be great if we could say use this engineer not that engineer because some people you fly through it's easy peasy some people it just is pingpong back and forth and it's it's a living hell but all that aside I think we can take a look at working on something maybe you know Lisa Tara to see if we could do something that lets us you know rely on the surveyor if we can we'll look at it right there's more than just serving you have a site and you have to put a site together and you have roads and you have this and that unless you have planner that's doing all of that then we're going to let a surveyor do a site plan I don't know if they referencing a commercial development even a house no even a house they're setbacks there yeah I don't think I've ever seen a surveyor to I plan tank dra field surveyor that's the only problem with that that I see thank you can we have a standard for septic tank drain field like that we could put out to the public that's the health department yeah the health department has a listed all over their website there's a whole code on the Department of Health can we offer that to our residents along with the package when they come in for a permit I think we do okay thank you a checklist and interestingly enough we it's in our code um and we've actually had Engineers try to challenge it last week um had an engineer tell us well why do I have to show where the septic tank is well because there's a code that says you have to have it so many feet away from a lake or a pond or standing body of water so call it a horse hair Interceptor no no it is an actual septic tank for a for for a house right it's like it has to be so many feet from the well that's a health department standard that's not us that's the health department you you can't put the well in the drain field I mean you can I just don't think I drink that water all right so this item then the discussion on flood plane and FEMA requirements um no that was the last one we sent back we're no we're we're on four um I'm sorry don't like yeah three three was a nol offer okay we're we're on number four now would you like to read the title discussion on flip plane and female requirements we do have one public comment public comment Missy okay counil um so sorry I came in late um one little this FYI you are being picked up it is working one tidb voice um the one tidbit on covers is town set of precedents by putting in the CT drain for two private properties on B Road South get a property in the back it's doing illegal industrial use so you know my biggest concern is what's the financial picture for the town going forward to to P for these things as for flood plane we went I know bis has been something you Champion with the FEMA um is this something that the town can really afford to do um I think ultimately all of this comes back to the town taking on way more roadways than we're ever under the purview of the district and we should be very careful as we we bypass certain level one Service Roads and and continue to move on the path of uh what are private roads historically and now suddenly they're becoming a public um burden financially thank you thank you you know mayor if you would indulge me in just one moment I would be happy to indulge because I really I believe in this you know the public record needing to be accurate the number of public roadway miles that we receive gas tax money for has not substantially changed over the years that the town has been Incorporated because the town received money for district roads and town roads through an interlocal agreement um so I just felt it was important to get that on record early on in the presentation we said we have about 55 or 56 miles of public roadways and about four miles of private roadways so I want to say that we haven't really changed our miles of roadway and we have we are in the process right now of some gas tax map amendments and we'll be bringing it Forward I think in one or two meetings from now and we'll be able to look at the roads that are asking to come off of the public versus roads that are asking to go on to the public right away um the other thing I also want to mention is that with respect to FEMA um we really can't not do it we can't afford to not do it but we can't afford to do it the way that we've been doing it and the point is we need to look at the way that we benefit from the change from the vulnerability assessment that allows us to establish or reestablish the natural flow so we're not bming every property we're using the natural flow of the water and the watersheds as they exist and where it makes sense and then the last thing is relative to coverts the Culvert policy put in front of you most of the language that has been added is relative to being able to assess for it and the reason that that assessment is in there is because people cannot afford to replace their coverts often times not because we wish to be a hammer on anybody um and also we the town would not be taking on a cost of putting in covers all through the town it would be where we had a significant situation that a culvert was not safe and that we would allow an assessment like we did at bidex bidex wanted to have a wider CT than we would do they were privately assessed they paid ahead I can see that that wording is daunting we are definitely going to rework it but I wanted to make sure that everybody knew that the intention was not to use it as a hammer it's to use it as a method of solving existing problems that we don't have a mechanism to solve right now agree we need to fix the wording so everybody understands it's a tool not um you know a torture and I think it's an available tool not a mandatory tool corre not one that everybody has to carry on Bel that's the that's the part makes it a little bit yes exactly it would not be somebody else gets to decide that you have to carry it on your belt I think that's the that's the wording part that is a problem I understand just quickly I want to say that it seems that we have have a lot of problems with our or ordinances we do and Mr CH cvia if he's still out there he is you know this is the problem that they're too heavy coming down on our residents and we are asking you Mr trfia to please lighten up because we go through this every ordinance so you know can you please tell your staff that the residents not the enemy less words yeah this ordinance was l words and I know that's a horrible thing to say to a lawyer I treat the words as a dollar and we don't want to pay for it all right I I hear you loud and clear it was my understanding and I want to speak for the engineers as well but I think all of our understanding was the town was looking for some kind of consistent standards from drainage and culs and you wanted to shift responsibility to maintain them to the property owner so that if their covert fails it's not the overall Town residents that are paying for the repair but the property owner and so we developed a system in this ordinance to require the property owner to repair the CTS and if necessary even obtain financing through the town and they could be assessed what I'm hearing tonight is that's not government light and you'd want to do something less than that I'm really not sure what the less is maybe the engineers have a better idea but am I correct that you want to establish some standards but maybe these standards are a little too much I I think what you just said sounds great if it just said that but it doesn't just say that it says a whole bunch of other stuff and it's the whole bunch of other stuff that's the offensive if it was the three sentences that you just said I think that's lovely but that's not what's in here this is like 17 pages of stuff okay so we will work on on making simpy the three sentences the focus well look GL just one quick idea and that is that a lot of this language in here is standard assessment language and maybe we could just reference to the statutes that would govern it that would be wonderful thank you just a thought be clear to the residence so they understood but you know no no you're right less is more okay understood okay we're done with this item do we we do we have a public comment on this and you just want to receive and file this correct we have one more we have oh we weren't doing additional public comments can you do it on the next item okay real quick Nina just because it's you you wrot so very quickly this comes back to FEMA and agricultural right department and here we are again adding the language of anything from I don't know people to whatever of being by when it comes back to's comment back then of saying that oural rights were not supposed to be impacted by this FEMA ordinance and here we are being impacted by this FEMA ordinance that's that thank you okay so I guess do we need a motion to receive and file or you just receiving and filing we haven't really done receiving yeah I I don't think so I think we're just fine recommendation receive and file is fine okay all right well this is the first one where they asked to receive and file the other ones were all discussions so I just wanted to ask that question we're on to item number are we really only at five five yep but we did talk about this this is the water use right yeah we talked about the water use there really is nothing more to add unless there's public comment is there any public comment on five no okay great moving on to six that six we did also this is the water use policy any public comment on six with the schedule from South Florida Water Management in here showing what's going to be assessed okay great moving on to seven Brazilian Florida project work status anything else you need to add Richard to that oh I'll bring sorry Valerie I just my I read your title go we're good we're good do you have anything to add nothing to add no I'm okay anybody have any comments Robert is that is your light on no okay sorry there's glare over here um you sh you sh your you sh your forehead before today meeting okay great all right we are on item eight which is local mitigation strategy the LMS Grant submission would you like me to go into more detail about them or no I I don't have any questions about it I think we've already had a discussion about it do you have any questions about the elements Grant Laura you were the one who was um saying that you wouldn't be willing to go out for loans or bonds did you have any question question specifically about this grant process no no Robert no questions mark no questions any questions about we are on number eight the grant process get to eight because we we had already done five six go theom I'm gonna go do that more often uh no I I will continue the yeah is just an ongoing conversation basically did you I'm sorry I forgot did you say what the the framework is we we just keep adding projects to this list and they just in this Quee and this list and then somebody some nice person says oh look there's a good one and pulls it out yeah so Palm Beach County has a scoring sheet that basically what they do is they take each project that we submit and they score it and then they put it on the list um the list if you go to palmach County's uh division emergency management you go to their website under their local mitigation group page and you can actually see the list and if you look at the list you know you look at this say $79 million who God's name is going to give us $79 million well go look at that list that list has projects that are 60 70 80 90 hundred million for replacing entire Wastewater systems and I mean and in smaller towns than this um so they score it based on that and again they just go out and and figure you know they they identify opportunities for us to apply for Grants to cover the costs so there would be no loans we are rural community so there is no matching funds um so there theoretically there should be no bond issues involved with any of this unless you guys for some reason decide one day that you know we want to do this but I will say one of the components of the LMS is that it has to have public support So saying that when it comes budget time don't be surprised if it shows up on the capital Improvement plan now obviously with any Capital Improv Improvement plan it could be pushed pushed pushed pushed pushed because we don't have the revenue but these items probably will appear on your 2728 you know Capital Improvement plan showing that at some point we need to do these items um whether we get grant money or not it just we again you just keep pushing it pushing it pushing it forward like we've done with other CIP items do you have um any statistics on the success rates for some of these projects on this LMS list no but I'm sure I actually have two demm meetings tomorrow over there so I can ask them what they have but obviously they keep the people I mean almost every town in pom county has multiple items including pom County water utilities and everybody else has multiple items on their list okay no no public comments on this one I'm sorry we talked before that we're done with the public comments okay all right well then I think we'll go to town scaff comments Francine mercifully short great meeting glad we opened the conversation lots more to do um we'll see some of this back in the budget and on future meetings thank you Glenn are you there oh yeah of course I have I sent you home with no words I'm sorry well you know I have to be short with my words I just told not enough words so I'll simply say have a good night everyone thank you qu I have a couple of things um a couple of things I'll keep it brief so um the one person who made the comment about the surveyors um Florida State Statute 47 2.09 029 is authorization to enter lands of third parties so the law states surveyors mappers or their subordinates may go on over or upon lands of others when necessary to make surveys Maps or locate or set monuments in or in and in doing so may carry with them their agents or employees and necessary for that purpose which means a surveyer licensed surveyor can enter your property without your permission and cannot be subject to arrest or any other legal act legal action um the same goes for engineers uh and that is in the course of their duties so right now can I just say that in a rural community that's probably not very wise surveyors ask Ingenuity surveyors do it all the time saying remember that this is a rural community probably not the smartest thing you'd want to do so currently which we have made public Outreach to Residents which we've made public Outreach to Residents about the paving plan the surveying that is currently being done and I I probably should do this now and clarify this for a few residents um the surveying you seeing now the stakes that are being put out is not the road width we are not Paving 60 foot wide roads the the the stakes that are being so the stakes with the green string on them are the easement lines those are where the easement are either on unrecorded plats or shown in property Deeds as found by the surveyor not by us we did we gave when we gave the task of surveying for the roads we gave them no information other than we want surveys of 161st 147th West 24th or uh 24th east of f west of f East Citrus Casey and grber um we did not give them any other information we had them find the easements so all the easements that they're putting in those green flags are the easement lines the stakes with the pink flags on them are property Corners our staff is then going out and pulling off of those to locate the road and then we are adjusting the road accordingly that make sense it does okay good make sure I wasn't losing my mind um as far as the um we've heard complaints about removing trees and stuff I gave all of you the uh Flor administrative code rules as it pertains to invasive species I've given you the um Flor administrative rules as it pertains to nox noxious weeds um that list the aquatic plants list the Palm Beach County ulc in regards to trees and the prohibit aquatic plants list um as you can see Australian pines malucas and Brazilian peppers and acaas are all on that list and those are the only things we are removing and we're removing those to reestablish the existing drainage that is there um as I've talked to a couple of you today about this as the flood plane manager I take my job very seriously it is my responsibility and my responsibility alone it is not count when it comes down to it and FEMA makes that call that says you are suspended from the national flood insurance program it's not the council they're going to go after it's not the manager they're not they're going to go after they're going to go after the flood plane administrator and that is me so we are try we have already had on one road alone which we are currently clearing five or six complaints from residents on that side of the road about how their properties flood every time it rains we combed a fire on Thursday because of lack of Maintenance of these of these invasive species that should have been cleared out years ago um it literally fixed the line and the next section of line caught fire while we were standing there with fpnl then the next day the next section of line caught fire FPL told us that they had been out there at least once a month putting out fixing the the lines or or the fire department is oh yeah we're out here all the time putting out fires in these trees so this is not an isolated incident so where's asplen or whatever well asplen asplen cuts only where they're called and I said the same thing when they're per my exact word words to the lady when she showed up from Florida Power and Light to try to tell us that we're the ones who caused the fire I'm like we weren't anywhere near it as a matter of fact we're the ones who put the fire out you're welcome um as I told her I'm like you know where's asplin you know I live in the acreage asan's been on my street three times in the last two years and I literally look down the road and says it doesn't look like asplin down this been down this road in 20 years and even when asplin showed up they literally cut back the fo and a half two foot that they're required to cut back and that is it if you've ever seen their highquality work they hat rack every tree they get a hold of um and so they cut less and less and even the guys from fpnl complained um we actually have phone calls into fpnl to ask them what they plan on doing about this and this is not the only Road this is not an isolated incident um there are other roads in in locki gr that have this exact same issue that needs to be dealt with but as far as the removal of the of trees right now we're on the west side of6 first we are only removing the Exotics um even the two Royals that were removed were removed by Florida Power and Light when they fixed their line because we wouldn't cut those down because they are somewhat native to this area they've been Declassified Royals oh have they yeah unfortunately we still not gonna cut him down but um you know the slash pines all the Oaks we're leaving them um the only thing we're removing are invasive species on these list on these lists that are you're supposed to you're supposed to remove them they're supposed to be removed before they were ever planted so but other than that um I think that's pretty much all I have thank you Valerie no report I feel like I failed you a little bit tonight thank you for your patience okay Council comments Laura um sorry for skating in here at 602 but I wanted to give a shout out to Mr h and his wife for stopping and helping me on collecting Canal put the three Turtles back over the BM and into the canal yay that's it okay phis all Engineers question um I I'm wondering if this is a conflict okay um the engineers that work for our residents not you guys okay um that work with their excavators my question is when they're making the plan can they make more work for their excavators I mean is is that not some kind of conflict they don't hire the contractors the engineer well the engine well I had well what if you want to know what the cost will be for the escavator what if you want to know hey here's the plan I need to know what this is going to cost and the engineer will not release the plan until you pay for it because you want to know what the cost what the end cost is going to be before he's done with it so possibly you can revise it so is that a conflict because it feels like one well a responsible engineer would approach its client and say whatat do you want on your property um a lot of times you were talking earlier about the historical ditches a lot of time those ditches are filled in by the property owners because they don't want a pond over here I want the pond over here no I don't know anybody that's gone out of their way to fill in their ditches unless it's been with an engineer and the town in their FDA I don't know one person that filled in their ditch or unless they were told to do so by the town so what would be the I I want to ask that question what is the purpose of filling in historical ditches and how does that benefit the town to put a burm you're filling in ditches and putting in a burm do you know the cost of that to these residents and this is what's been going on no Randy I want to hear from these girls because and actually Tara is the one that signs off on everything you've been answering a lot of questions but Tara you're signing off right now on this stuff so I would like to hear your opin you know your answer and I'm not picking on you I just want to know what your answer is all right so when when I when you start with the with the municipality you read the code right so I read the code and this is what the code says if we want to change things the code says fill in the ditches the code says you need to burn your property all right but can you put a BM on the inside of the ditch they okay so then there's something wrong with our Co I always recommend somebody go get a drain teent because if you have one now like they can't come and take it away that's the problem this is just historic I mean honestly you could say historic gra but it doesn't mean that it's it's it's not legal there's no easement there one of the biggest issues with a lot of these ditches and we're dealing with it right now with at least two residents in this town is here's my property line this is your property this is my property there's a ditch right through the center of the two that serves both of us right so you put a burm there I put a burm there now the ditch all the water from my property still goes into that ditch and goes into our canal and one a resident in particular that I know of removed her burm and then came to our code enforcement officer and says this guy is flooding my property well when the code enforcement officer went out there he looked he goes well it's because you took the BM out the resident who's being flooded took her BM out and so what I actually encourage residents to do now like I've got one project right now we just reviewed the other day the the the ditch goes down the center the well it meanders down the property and then just before it hits the street about 50 before it hits the street it Dives under the other guy's property and out to the canal well right now he might get along with that neighbor what happens next year when he sells the property the new owner says I don't want your water going under my property anymore because legally the water is going from this guy's property to this guy's property and you're Crossing property lines so I tell them if you want to keep that ditch you need to get an easement from this guy and tell him so that way heh have that understanding an easement runs with the property right so if it's in our code and you feel I please make this whole like historic and like water flowing where it needs to go I I totally agree with that but we need to change our codes please get with Francine yeah and please tell us your take as the town engineer what you would like to see changed in our codes do do you guys agree I think we're thank you we I think we've all always agreed and there's a property let's get it done are bleeding money I just want to share with you that you can get a lot of details if you talk to somebody on D Road there's four properties that have um an historic drainage ditch that's a homeor and it flows into somebody else's Pond there's no easement there's nothing and the one guy is the new owner and did an FDA and he's receiving all the water from three other owners it's you know that's why we need to to fix it so please Francine and let's fix we know these yeah okay Robert and see you next month yeah for just want to add to what Richard was saying about these survey Stakes the stake may say 20 feet to the north so when you see a stake with the green flag then all of a sudden next property the Stak with the green flag is 20 feet away it's because the surveyor couldn't probably access to put the stake over there so they'll write on the stake you know easement 10 feet to the North or 20 feet so and it's all about education so somebody whoever's taking these phone calls you know we need to educate those people so residents aren't yell just part of you know anybody that's watching this meeting now hopefully will understand oh look his is goes back there but mine the stakes out here it's like read the Stak it's written on it in English and it's also a crime to remove the stakes yeah so and Richard Put it on social media and um I think that you know he's trying to make sure that there's daily updates on the stuff that um Public Works is doing but I don't know how far it's reaching thank you it thank you m thank you march yeah uh very interesting uh booklet that we had this month I I enjoyed going through it I do agree that there is some areas where there is overkill and uh you really need to uh work on um getting resident input from from some of the stuff so thank you thank you for all coming yeah I mean think govern light it's what this town was founded on you know it's one of our guiding principles and so as we grow and our staff grows and the input grows it's it's really important to keep that Mantra in the back of your mind when you're writing ordinances and when you're um making strategies and keeping people informed it's it's huge it's really huge um and making sure like you said that the person who answers the phone can answer that question so that somebody doesn't think their properties you know doesn't come home from work and see stakes in the middle of their yard and think that their property is being taken from them you know so thank you all for your work again evidence of a lot of really hard work which we appreciate and and I want you to know that I really do understand that this is a huge effort to create standards that make things fair and even and Equitable for all of us um so that we can live in unity did you have something else no I just asked the engineer because I think she has something to say so I want her to call me so I could get more education can I can I just thank you we we here thank you I'm talking on for all of us as Engineers because we don't like to talk to begin with because we're civil engineers so but we're we're here to listen we work for you okay it's our responsibility as a professional engineer to to watch the health safety and Welfare of the public and also to balance this this beautiful rural community we're here for you on your behalf so it was great to listen to each one of you and what you're saying um we will take this input and take it seriously but also understand that we have to follow the health safety and Welfare of the public as it relates to FEMA regulations and the federal government the state government the local government on a good note you all should be commended for all the things that you all have done these grants are so competitive there are 39 municipalities in this County and for you to get the grants that you've already gotten and and and a program to move forward um it you should all be commended we work with a lot of municipalities in this County and they're not as fortunate as you all to be getting these types of Grants to be moving forward with your infrastructure improvements to be able to balance water quality and water quantity to be able to to quantify how much water we're taking and then how much water we're putting back it's such a balance and we all have to work together and so listening to all of you is just great information and we will do the best we can to make sure that we listen to you and move forward try to give everyone a better quality of life stay within our rules and regulations as Professional Engineers as you know as we move forward with improvements and just it's it's really hard for us sometimes to balance and make sure that we're not adversely impacting the neighbor and we try really hard on small issues to not have to involve an engineer if we don't need to we we try to be very sensitive to that um we look at historical flows we try to make sure that that we are not adversely impacting our neighbors it's not that easy sometimes but we all need to work together and I think this group has done a fabulous job over the last several years because you've been successful in agencies that have been giving you money improving in proving to them that you are here um as professionals and can prove that there's a need when there's other municipalities that have not been as successful as all of you so um so again thank you for the opportunity to be here to listen to all of this and let's continue to work together to continue to make a better quality of life for all of us thank you very much thank you have a good vacation