we have this e are you ready yes okay the May 7th Town Council blocki GES meeting will now come to order we stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please the United States of America to the rep for stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and if we could have a moment of [Music] silence also I heard a very interesting quote this week that I would like to share which is that I hope tonight we can build Bridges with compassion and unity I thought that was very appropo of this loaded agenda that we have tonight thank you roll call [Music] please Community thing don't we do that after we do the no first you do that before we yeah 6 to 630 I thought we we do this and then do like that like we see who's here and then we do that Francine do we do our roll call first or do we do the community Workshop part First Community Workshop first okay let's do the community Workshop then Mr snowball all right good evening Council Robert snowball 161st terce I have uh want to thank the council for staying the course on the pav project and I brought you a little support for 161st like to pass it out if see check out the map and see what we've collected if that's okay with you do I need motion to receive and file motion to receive and file all in favor hi it's all the signatures work you color coding and everything Mr s how nice not take a bunch of time but as you can see we got quite a few people on there 67% uh only had four ABS three to said no one said get off my property didn't want to know what we were there for and a lot of the whites are the nurseries the ones that are already with overgrown trees and they don't care what it looks like on their back side of their Lots anyway so that's why a lot of those are still white but we have feelers out maybe they'll come through and sign them for us but this is what we have for now Richard I don't know if this Falls in your wheelhouse but as far as um property owners that use the a-road maintenance easement for Ingress egress have we figured out how to deal with that is it okay is it not okay there are a number of properties that actually gates with chains on that on that Eastman side so just so you know about it are you referring from 161st to North Road that se what section um if you travel North on a once you cross okobe there are at least three properties that you can see where um traffic has made its we of in and out so instead of going down 1601 they come out and go down a a resident sent me pictures a couple months ago I'll see if I can find them and reward okay yeah forward them to me I know the person on the corner uses it and he actually Parks his truck in the um to block it when he runs his horses up and down that that maintenance seasman the south side yeah okay just asking all I got for you to say thank you thank you all right thank you thank you [Music] missish Virginia sish 15410 North Road today May 7th at 6:07 a. I am asking the town Town staff Town Council what your intentions are to deal with the faling infrastructure under the roads including the infrastructure damaged by fpnm before you proceed with capital Improvement projects which include road paving Richard yes ma'am hey Richard um our plan is to fix it before we PVE it how will you identify those structures that are damaged by inspection what have you done so far it depends on the area uh currently we're concentrating on the areas that the notice to proceed will be issued on which are seven segments not all 13 segments did this town at any time provide fpnl with a survey of existing culverts uh that was before I was here I do not know I do not know but I do know that we reviewed their permit applications and a big part of the permitting process was that we delayed because they were not um considering locations of our coverts and so on and so forth I have a question do we have a at where every single covert is in this town we're in the process of preparing that we do not know where every single Culvert is in this town thought the under did that years ago went around had had somebody go around and identify they did they had kesars go through and identify areas of flood concern that did not identify areas where we had culverts in fact it identified areas where we needed CTS and catch basins that it identified all the culverts I'm I'm pretty sure it did I have never seen that and we are in the process of doing our vulnerability assessment and also don't forget the private coverts have not necessarily all been permitted which is one of the reasons that we're also doing the surveys that we've been doing this year and I do feel like Richard is better to answer this than I may I ask a question sure go ahead um I'd like to see the survey from kesar the survey on the um on whatever we thought Anita thought it was culverts it may also identifi CTS if you if you would allow me a moment I can go and take the map off the wall and bring it in here and show it to you it's flood areas of concern there were 300 areas we used those 300 areas in order to identify um the scope of a bid and a contract for replacing catch basins and it was supposed to be over a 10-year period the first contract was for $2 million I don't believe we ever spent the $2 million but we did put in I think about 50 culverts um we know where those CTS are we know where the culverts are that we replaced on the Culvert Bridges we also know the culverts that we put in in the last two years relative to the road paving we did but in terms of knowing every Culvert in town we don't and that's big part of the surveys that are ongoing right now and we have those surveys split up between Ingenuity and kesars one of the firms is doing all of the culverts south of okobe one of the firms is doing all the culverts north of okobe and they are trying to identify both private and public coverts Richard yeah currently Ino and kesars are doing their final surveying of the not only the um elevations of the canals but also all the colberts in the town um the next phase of that is to do the uh review and condition assessment of all of those colberts which should be done before the end of the year fiscal year right uh I have to look at the schedule but it might be calendar year Okay so my comments the comment that you know culverts that were permitted some of these permits were put in decades ago and it's a known fact that District would throw out records so I question whether they have a record of all the culverts that were permitted um second this town seems to have a pattern of allowing vendors to come in here and do whatever they want without any oversight and that is another concern in your Capital Improvement projects we've seen that time and time again one of the reasons the district is taking land because they lost their 20ft right away of the canal my concern here is fpnl came in I spoke to we delayed so many times allowing fpnl to do anything till we met with people in front of our property and they confirmed that oh we have Engineers come out here and Mark everything I said I have a water line and I have a cul no problem we will Mark everything we're working with the town um in my my experience in construction I may be using the wrong term but there was when you have anything underground typically a uh there's a company let's call it no Cuts whatever they come in and they identify the wires everything underground perhaps that doesn't apply to culverts but since the district and the town were working on this project my question is who ordered fpnl to proceed and allowed our culs to be damaged thank Richard I think you should probably talk about how you run projects and how we do locates and all that other stuff and anything prior to Richard cuming would have been Mr Peters who is not here to speak for himself but he also was supposed to call locates as well and so I'm turning it over to Richard to how we do projects now reference to our current capital projects is the paving plan um we actually have a Ser have surveys and Engineers going out to all the segments they're shooting the property lines and they're shooting an elevation grade for it to be trans transposed all the way down the road so they'll roads were level straight and and where they're supposed to be not just weaving Meandering down whatever dirts there um we are also making sure that everything's compacted to ashto standards we are uh just I mean we're doing everything that that's the way it's supposed to be done as far as the roads go the ditches are the same way the swales we are reestablishing swales if anybody's been down f Road lately to Casey you'll notice that it's a lot cleaner and there's actually a ditch there now um they've started to work on that area there reestablishing the swes to stop those properties from flooding um obviously our primary concern at this point is the paving project and getting all those roads prepared prior to the contractor being the work when the work actually begins I personally will be the one overseeing their work we identified coverts and other issues that need to be resolved prior to them starting the anticipated start of the contractor is going to be between June and July based on their availability to get crews out here to start the paving so we still have two to possibly three months before the first piece of black top ever hits the ground to get all the all the segments ready get everything all completed compacted replaced EX ET which we fully anticipate to be done by that time as for stuff done by fpnl as Miss sish Ino there is it's called Sunshine 811 any contractor who's any contractor whether you're putting a tree in a fence in FPL underground or anything is required to notify 811 to um require request locates for any infrastructure that is identified by a member agency which would be pondish County water utilities uh when I arrive red here the town of loocks at you grow was not a member agency of um 81 of the 811 system run by the state I am currently in the process of trying to get us registered for it I'm actually waiting for them to call me back because they Char the the way 811 is funded it's funded by the member agencies so 811 will not locate any of our stuff because we are not a member so any of our be identified by 81 one when they do their underground because we are not members the problem is is they charge based on the number of calls so I'm trying to work with them to make sure because this is one of the problems when I was across the street was I handled all of the underground requests for Wellington and everything up like when they were doing all this work up and down Southern Boulevard I would get 200 requests a week because the way Wellington had their stuff set up they had it in including Southern Boulevard which they have no infrastructure on Southern Boulevard but they got charged for it and they had to pay for it so I'm currently working trying to make sure that only the corporate boundaries of the town of block s Bros are included in their calls before I get us all signed up to be member agency a member agency so we don't get charged for stuff in Royal Palm and in the acreage and in West Lake and in on Southern B on the Southern Boulevard quter where we have absolutely no infrastructure but I am in the process of doing that but prior to my arrival if there's somebody does any underground work and they call 811 they're not going to call us to tell us about it we have to find out and FPL my understanding is they at least contacted us before they did any work but 811 does come if we call them if if we call them yeah if we call them because we're doing work they will come but they will not call us to to locate our underground infrastructure um so like for example like Florida Power Light AT&T Comcast Florida Public Utilities Palm Beach County water utilities all the member agencies and so when they like if you call for your house and say I'm going to put in a fence I need underground all undergrounds located you have to go out spray paint the road white they send out a ticket the ticket is based on everybody who they believe is going to be in that area so when that ticket comes out it'll show FPL AT&T Comcast will probably be the only three because of where you live um if it's in Wellington or let's say it's on Southern Boulevard it'll be FPL AT&T Palm Beach County um Florida Public Utilities and every other agency that has any infrastructure along Southern Boulevard um but those member agencies are who pays for the loc company to come out and actually do the physical locates does that make sense go yeah sure yeah I was going to say those are the only three that I've ever gotten for 811 was fpnl cobcast AT&T um how do they what's the fee schedule like you say it's a charge per call what does that mean how how does that equate to dollars so anytime somebody calls 811 they and the and and we as a member agency are in their that area they basically said us a bill and say okay it's 20 cents or I forget exactly I had have to go look at their fee schedule to figure out what the dollar amount is so if like for example if they decide to do something with Southern Boulevard and our boundary is includes Southern Boulevard we would get charged for any locates called in along Southern Boulevard whether we have anything there or not they don't go based on if you actually physically have anything they go based on on if you are if you have told them that this rectangle is ours and where we have infrastructure and then the followup have you contacted fpnl because Miss Standish has been here for months trying to get this culbert and I know there more than one culbert that they put a hole through encouraging everyone to affect their culbert yeah yeah I've tried to call them personally at least three different times and they keep saying they're working on it it's getting to the point because what they do with us if we hit something they just send us a bill and then so they come to that to where we just have to replace it and then send them a bill demanding payment for damages caused by their contractor would we do that I mean it's been a [Music] while I think we need to put that for discussion on tonight's agenda when I do my report and we'll get your direction on whether we should do that both Mr Gant myself our residents prior to Mr Gant Mr Peters we have all spent considerable time trying to get F pel to repair the damages in fact one resident um and it's happened with more than one resident but one resident said the way that they fixed the cover was just by throwing dirt in it they did I share thatt with Paul no I understand that and so I do think that it's probably a good conversation for us to have tonight and decide how we want to proceed okay because you can't make a decision at this meeting did you have something else yes since I didn't get my full three minutes I'd just like to add in summary I don't think any contractor should be allowed to do any work in this town till they can prove they they're truly going to work with the land owners I sat out there and identified everything yes yes we're going to we're going to identify this we're going to mark it unless they can confirm with you they are going to Mark everything be liable for it they should not be permitted to do any work in this town it's not just fpnl there may be other things that eventually go in the ground thank you Cassie Suchi um I do want to give a a a thumbs up for the effort with the law enforcement doing um traffic enforcement on okobi I have noticed some type of drop off in the areas that I travel it um so that's a good thing but one of the issues I have is um I know we all see that the the migrants that sit across the road waiting to be picked up the issue is people pulling off into those intersections or right before right after the intersections usually right before and now not only are you trying to get out on a busy highway you're looking at traffic going north or south but now you're you're looking at somebody pulling out from another direction of travel so maybe it's possible that I don't know who would do it if it's Palm Beach County how what we have at fome where we have those like little pylon sticks that delineate a traffic when you're turning from fulam and heading east onto okobe maybe we can put those at the intersections going out maybe 50 or 75 ft um to prevent the people from pulling in um I just see a problem happening with that and the other issue I'd like to talk about is I know we I brought it up about our HR manual I know it's on our our agenda for July and I've brought this up at several workshops wondering do we have evaluations or some type of monitoring of our employees of what they're doing or is that all contingent us on on approving the HR manual the reason I bring this up and I brought this up as well I am a resident of this town I am active in this town and I meet as many neighbors as I can and I am really getting tired of hearing negative comments degrading comments about me personally from town staff Town Council Members Town employees two residents I'm tired when I meet a new neighbor oh you're the troubl person we heard about you so I am currently in the process of gathering sworn statements from all these people I don't want to have to use it but if it has to be used at a later date at some type of legal action against the town because they are not regulating their staff's behavior nothing I do in this town is to hurt this town it's very apparent from the public records requests that have gone unfulfilled for three years that we are trying to get fixed finally thank you Valerie I have not it was never my intention to Sue this town but I had approximately 45 lawsuits I could have brought against this town for violation of public records request that was never my intention so I come to these meetings and I'm active I try to stay involved probably the same reason that all of us live in this town we love this town for a certain reason but I do not feel that it's appropriate behavior to hear comments downgrading comments negative comments about me naming me personally knowing about things that I'm doing personally to neighbors and other residents in this town it needs to stop so if it's if it's going to be addressed in the HR manual maybe we can bring up the HR manual sooner than July or get some type of evaluation where they get a yearly evaluation on their behaviors okay Cassie I just want to address something we do currently have an HR manual when the town absorbed the district it took that HR manual as well as that policies and procedures manual the policies and procedures manual was revised revamped over a series of two or three years and voted on by Council so this iteration of the HR ual will be a revision or a correction and that HR manual does in fact call for annual reviews has it been voted finally my understanding was sent away for review it came back and it no this is the new iteration that has has been sent away for review to the attorneys but there is an existing HR manual and policies for the town it does actually exist now what's being done now is to correct things make them more unified um and and to add things that need to be added I do want to point out just so everybody recalls this is a council manager form of government and the manager is responsible as it is stated in the charter for employee issues so if there are employee issues they need to be reported to the manager we do have employee evaluations in fact we've changed the form multiple times we have a very comprehensive evaluation um some of our new employees are coming up for their evaluation but I actually had them do self- evaluations when they started namely Mr Gant our new Public Work superintendent so we could establish a baseline of what their skills are and the things that they wanted to do in terms of their professional growth all of our field staff and office staff also have evaluations probationary employees have a very shorter eval valuation but we have a probation time period for people and when people are not performing to their probation the probation may also be extended these things are all included in the employee manual we run the town with a traditional Government model which means that there are rules for everything not just for permitting but also for employees and if there is a problem with any of our employees other than some of the past Public Works employees that you have told me about please come in and let me know and we can address it without even waiting to an evaluation I have had numerous people speak to me about concerns they've had with employees and one of the things that I have to tell you is when somebody says no it doesn't mean that they're trying to be difficult it means that we can't always fulfill the request that's being asked but then again you can always come to me and I can try and I might still have to say no but we do have a pretty extensive process for this and I would encourage you to let me know if there are additional employees that you feel need to be corrected I just want to U make one point sure I don't want this to ever be confrontational between residents and staff um and because we have a lot of good people out here we have a few like Mr snowball said that shut your gate we have people like that but they're still nice people and they have issues maybe they just want to be private um none of us at least the residents that I talk to want to be confrontational or have any kind of issues with our town staff because we're all here for a common goal and I just want to make sure but I just it we wonder why people don't want to get involved and you put yourself out there they don't want to go through what I'm going through so thank you that's it we have two minutes until the council meeting starts does anybody need to use the restroom or anything need to run to the body what do they do with the big root balls currently they're going to a 30 yard dumpster and being hauled to whatever facility Coastal is taking them to okay you want them it's a monster take him to your house they're actually taking all the debris to their yard yeah all the debris is go into our yard then it goes into a 30 yard dumpster and then coastal's coming twice a day to pick up that dumpster and they take it to their yard by the way they did move their facilities to that location their addresses off Southern now um I'm not sure if it's off Southern but they did move it to the Aquarius location oh okay M I need to date there's some monster root balls there Australia I think we also have a contract with um debris dogs don't we we're working on that yeah and then are they gonna pull this Australian the huge one that they cut down at East Citrus no yeah that's thank you at least not right now unless we get an employee that we don't like and we'll have out there with a shovel up you on it or something are they going to cut the um the tree at d Road just east of the intersection that's dead that we're going to find in our driving path east of what intersection east of the D Road and collecting Canal I'll look into it right now they're done for this fiscal year doing any tree cutting because obviously we have to limit the amount of of removal that we do because of monetary restrictions yeah but we do have a l we're actually my superintendent and I are currently working on a list for of all the trees that we want to remove basically our wish list and then um we'll figure out year over-year where we want to go what about all those dead trees at um at the uh eoad Andi we need to start the meeting and we can do this okay meeting's now coming to order I think we could just start with the roll call council member manilia presid council member danowski here counc member Shore here mayor here mayor Kane pres manager remilia here attorney Earley here and to attorney Ria will be joining by Zoom Works director Gan present thank you okay I need a motion to approve the consent agenda does anybody have any issues um yes we're not at consent yet or additions deletions yeah additions deletions and modifications any additions any deletions any modifications I would like to propose the presentations forward to write after consent agenda um so that the public officials that are here are not here for long periods of time so um I'd like to make a proposal that we move that forward to proport of Inc second all in favor I I opposed motion to approve the agenda as written with a modification I want to pull something from consent hang in there okay we're good with that right I'm sorry Robert go again there's a motion to approve the agenda as written with the moving presentations in front of the consent agenda second all in favor I I opposed okay motion passes okay so should we do them now before we consider what we're pulling from consent we have to do comments from the Public Public comments first are there any public should they do are there any public comments Missi oh okay yeah uh nothing as now no nothing okay so now we'll do presentation first and then we'll consider the consent agenda so we're moving to item goodness gracious um it's Chief fero with the fire rescue she has her annual 15 right we're moving to item 14 first which would be pal Beach County fire rescue good evening can you hear me sounds like we're having some technical difficulties oh you're new I know that you have a very full agenda tonight and so I do think that it is important that the council and certainly the residents know good things that their fire department is doing throughout the the year so um I will try to make it quick it is a I was going to ask that everybody keep their presentations to about 10 minutes if possible okay thank you I will do that I will Bree through it first I'll give you the quarterly report for the response times and this was uh for January 1st 2024 through uh March 31st 2024 we had a average dispatch handling time of 41 seconds average turnout time 47 seconds average travel time 6 minutes 21 seconds for an total average response time of 7 minutes and 48 seconds and there was a total of 189 calls uh service calls to the area for that that quarter so starting with the annual report if you want to skip ahead to page five we had um 62 less calls uh in fiscally year 2023 that we than we had in fiscal year 2022 probably because that was a covid year our response times decreased by almost 20 seconds in fif uh excuse me in fiscal year 2023 for a total average response time of 7 minutes and 46 seconds go to page six sorry that's okay if that's me or what uh the town of loat you grow is primarily served by Station 21 the service area is part of a regional system and it's ultimately excuse me immediately backed up by surrounding stations with resources and equipment so even if Station 21 who is your primary response is out on another call or they uh training you always have coverage we move up other units or other units come from other zones So you you're never without coverage you could go to page nine please actually we'll skip nine that's employee recognition that we're happening but we're on the time crunch um if you'd like to go to page 10 please the Palm Beach County fire rescue Advanced life support competition team was recognized by the Palm Beach County EMS provider Association for their exemplary work ethic dedication and many contributions to the field of emergency Medical Services they took first place at Bernie Tilson Memorial EMS Challenge and was awarded the Florida cup for the second time for having the most first place results throughout the year because of their success the board of County Commissioners proclaimed March 14 2023 as Palm Beach County fire rescue Advanced life support team day your Medics that are responding to your emergencies so they're recognized throughout the state for their good work um page 11 we have a vehicle extrication um competition team which um they practice on using which you all probably um have heard of the jaws of life is what they call our extrication equipment so we have an extrication um Team comp competition team that is affectionately they called themselves the punishers they won first place in the medical technician instant command and overall categories in the annual Florida Invitational in May 2023 our firefighters attended the North American vehicle rescue Association or navra competition and Rapid intervention team competition put on by Palm Beach State College this competition is accomplished by simulating past reife high- pressure scenarios Nava promotes the use of best practices which better prepares Rescuers to reduce mortality and injuries caused by motor vehicle accidents the punishers our extrication team won first place in the categories of overall top team complex scenario limited scenario command Technical and medical uh several of our firefighters also participate in the firefighter combat challenge that has been called the toughest two minutes in sports by ESPN in this challenge firefighters compete to test their strength speed and endurance through an obstacle course while wearing full firefighter bunker gear in less than 2 minutes they hit the Finish Line after completing all the following a five-story tower climb with with a 42b hose pack a hoseo using a Kaiser forcible entry machine obstacle run hose drag and 180 pound victim drag many of our participants came home with a first place win gold and silver medals okay 12 please our Operations Division is responsible for providing emergency services to the community operations is the largest division of Palm Beach County fire rescue and is divided geographically into eight battalions which we are in Battalion 2 um we operate 49 fire stations throughout the county with minimum daily Staffing of 331 Personnel on duty at all times we are an all hazards Department capable of responding to everything from a minor Minor Medical call to a regional disaster a regional n natural disaster all Personnel are cross-trained in firefighting Emergency Medical Services ensuring efficient fire suppression delivery technical rescue vehicle extrication and emergency medical care in addition to that some other services we provide is personal rescue watercraft we have a jet ski program and in partnership with the healthcare district our fire Medics and flight nurses staff the trauma Hawk for air rescue aircraft rescue and firefighting at Palm Beach International Airport hazardous materials response confin space high angle structural collapse Advanced automobile extrication dark water dive rescue and in partnership with PBSO we assist in with explosive ordinance uh device disposal and of course large animal rescue that's here in our town that's my neighbor's horse oh we're there for you we could go to page 16 please so some f statistics for specific to locki Groves uh in fiscal year two uh fiscal year 23 we transported 289 patients four of those were stroke alerts one was a sepsis alert we did not have any stemi alerts in the lock Sai Groves area and we had 19 trauma alert alerts um some statistics on cardiac arrests there was 712 cardiac arrests countywide and uh 28.3% of cardiac arrest cases countywide regained a heartbeat the um Florida State average is 23.5% so we are at 28.3% of overall um getting a heartbeat back 12.2% of cardiac arrest cases countywide were discharged from the hospital live that's 87 patients so that's really significant something that is new is on page 17 the whole blood transfusion program was implemented in July of 2022 to improve the survival rate of ble fire rescue Palm Beach County fire rescue is one of the few agencies Nationwide and the sole agency in Palm Beach County capable of delivering this advanced level of service research shows that two critical actions can improve the survival odds of a bleeding trauma patient number one is to stop the bleed and number two is to replace the blood loss since October 1st of 2022 we palom County fire rescue have provided 64 whole blood transfusions during fiscal year 23 we received several accolades for the whole blood program and published a paper titled the implementation of a prehospital whole blood transfusion program and early results in the National Library of Medicine pbcfr received the community organization hero award through the heroes in medicine program by the Palm Beach County Medical Society the National Association of counties selected pbcfr as the winner of the 2023 Achievement Award please I don't know if everybody is familiar with our mobile Integrated Health Care program that we have um that's program inh an es the EMS approach by assisting patients with social services and medical needs after the 911 call the mih team consists of paramedics and medical social workers who support patients and families by empowering them with the proper means to improve their health and wellness our mih program includes highfrequency utilizer and chronic disease management addiction Pregnancy Outreach Cardiac Arrest Survivor Outreach and pediatric and adult grief support in the town of Loach Groves we had served um specifically five patients with mobile Integrated Health two patients were referred by the crews that responded to an emergency at their home and saw that the need for additional social services so they put in referrals and three of the patients were suffering for sub from substance abuse issues and receive care and intervention page 19 this is our patient satisfaction survey we deter we are determined to provide the highest level of service along with excellent patient care to the communities we serve in fiscal year 2023 we partnered with the bald witch Group which is a performance excellent consulting firm that specializes in administering Community surveys on behalf of fire and EMS agencies I'm happy to report that of the town of Locke Grove residents that participated we received an overall 97.8% overall customer satisfaction for fiscal year 23 the results of this service continue to affirm the excellent level of service that fire rescue provides to the residents and the visit V visitors of lockah hatche groves page 20 please fire rescue responded to 83 vehicle accidents within the town during fiscal year 23 and 14% of the was 14% of the total calls dispatched we responded to 28 fires in the town this includes structure fires Vehicles boat fires brush fires trash fires structure fires are located inside of a building and can be categorized as highrise commercial apartment or residential these types of fire have the most potential to threaten life safety and can result in significant property loss we are prepared to respond to each type of structure call personnel and equipment to mitigate damages as quickly as possible therefore a working structured fire receives a minimum of units and 24 Personnel to a residential structure fire you'll get three Advanced life support fire engines three rescue trucks one aerial truck uh an EMS Captain a battalion chief and a district chief for a total of 24 Personnel on a um single alarm structur fire 28 I'm almost um besides inspections plan review and arson investigation our community risk reduction offers a whole host of programs and resources for the community ahead to AG 30 education section of our community risk reduction Community Education and Outreach Branch provides intervention strategies to prevent injuries and lives loss due to Fire and other hazards educational cources that our community reduction offers babysitter safety hazards in the home basic first aid bleeding control stop the bleed carbon monoxide poisoning prevention fall prevention fire and emergency evacuation training and fire extinguisher training fire safety fire station tours hands only CPR and a uh training Hurricane Safety injury prevention and golf cart charging safety in addition we have smoke alarm and carbonide alarm installation programs home safety surveys child passenger safety and car seat checks and installation youth fire setting prevention and intervention programs the yellow dot program the vile of life and also pet decals and I did on your way out if anybody would like to grab any of the Flyers that I left I left some information on the yellow dot program U the pet decals and also the um car seat installation does anyone have any questions um my question is have you ever had traumahawk land on the side Farm uh I don't know if we've actually utilized that as a canand LZ I know it is listed as a canand LZ but I don't know specifically if they've had to use it or not I can certainly follow up with our um our EMS Captain that's in charge of the trauma to see if they've used that LZ I that but I know it is listed as a can LZ should they need it perfect and um whole blood I'm am surprised about that a little bit I was a trauma person that got lifted in traumahawk and um I did a lot of blood transfusions but I know that there's some religious issues and so what I'm just curious how do you know that is do these people only have to be conscious are you asking them or it's life and death situation you make the call that I did not bring with me however it is for trauma patients that are more than likely suffering from significant blood loss um they may be conscious or unconscious um and I believe that if there're if it was a religious thing for them that that had they been conscious and they would say no they did not want the C blood I think legally we're covered by knowing the best that we could to try to save that patient um our EMS Captain so EMS 28 has a refrigerator on the truck they have the whole blood on their truck um and that is not anything that we have encountered thus far being absent able to revive them or replace some of that blood loss to get them to the operating and one more question and do you work with the sheriff's department regarding folks that need further assistance like mental health and all that because the sheriff has now also implemented some programs regarding mental health our mobile Integrated Health Team would be the ones that would we work with them on a daily on any type of Baker a or things like that and um so out in the field and operations that's mostly the extent that our crews would have with PBSO but our mobile Integrated Health does a lot of interface with PBSO and you know learning more about a patient's history and what would be the best services to offer that patient good to hear thank you thank you so much for coming tonight thank you we're gonna thank you there were no public comments right and thank you for the extensive report sorry for the 10 minutes all right we're just going to go down this list Francine 15 now um the financial audit Mr feirman he's the audit partner of our audit firm cabayo feirman at Hall is attending by zoom and he's on the screen thank you good evening uh honorable mayor vice mayor members of the Town Council for the record my name is Andrew Ferman and I'm a partner with gavo Furman yanan Garcia or CFG for short I am the partner in charge of the town's audit I'm here to provide a brief presentation on the town's annual comprehensive financial report for the fiscal year end of September 30th 2023 so the first uh the first item I'd like to point out within the document is goes going right to page one which is our Auditor's report I'm going to point out a few things within each within each section that is broken out into and paraphrase a few things um the first section is the opinion section it's the most important section and that states that we have audited the accompanying financial statements of the town of lahache groves as of and for the fiscal year end of September 30th 2023 in our opinion the financial statements referred to above present fairly in all material respects the financial position of the town as of September 30th 2023 now that's unmodified or a clean opinion and that's of course the only opinion you want on your financial statements so clean opinion once again this year on your financial statements the next section talks about under what standards We performed our audit and that states that we conducted our audit in accordance with auditing standards generally accepted in the United States of America and government auding standards the third section gets into Management's responsibilities for the financial statements and that states that management is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of the financial statements in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of of America and the last section I'm going to point out is still there on page one which is the our responsibility as Auditors and that states that our objectives are to obtain reasonable Assurance about whether the financial statements as a whole are free from Material misstatement whether due to fraud or error and to issue an Auditor's report that includes our opinions continue to move through the document pass through the uh the auditor report we're going to go to page three and specifically Pages 3 to 15 which is the Management's discussion analysis if you don't read anything else in this document I tell everyone you should read this it it talks about the year it Compares current year to Prior year it provides explanations for those changes and it's written from Management's perspective it's similar to what's provided in public company financial statements and it's an excellent executive summary of what's with what's what's within the document so this is you know in to this is almost like a 73 75 page document this is about 12 pages and it gives a lot of good information there's summarized financial information things of that nature so again you know highly recommend a lot of good information within there continuing to move through the document um we're moving from Pages 16 to 24 now um Pages 16 through 24 are the basic financial statements and this includes the the government-wide statement of net position and statement of activities as well as the fund financial statements for the various uh for the various funds the governmental funds and the Enterprise funds the one thing that I wanted to point out within here specifically is on page page 18 and page 18 is the balance sheet of your governmental funds at September 30th 2023 and specifically in the First Column is the general fund which is the main operating fund of the of the Town um and this balance sheet obviously shows a snapshot at a point in time at September 30th 2023 of the assets liabilities with that difference being the fund balance and specifically I'd like to point out the third line from the bottom that the unassigned fund balance in the general fund at September 30th 2023 was uh 1,500 approximately $1,580 th000 that's again that's on that's on page 18 that's on that's in your general fund after the financial statements and that's beginning on page 25 Pages 25 through 43 are the notes to the basic financial statements and these are the required disclosures which provide additional information on the town as well as the numbers that are presented within the financial statements it tells the whole story it provides narrative information on on what's going on in the financial statements it also provides additional numerical detail so again it's it's it's it's suggested that it does get read in conjunction with the financial statements once again because it does it does tell the whole story and the the last item I want to point out and that begins on page 44 within your financial section here is the the required supplementary information um and that includes budgetary comparison information on on the general fund um special Revenue funds Transportation fund um as well as information on the on the pensions on the specifically on the floater retirement system that's that's required under under the um governmental Accounting Standards board's uh requirements and it's again that's additional required supplementary information that's included it's not part of the basic financial statements um and specifically on page 44 you see here is the budget to actual for your general fund once again this is another another very good page on page 44 um because it's it's it's one page and it basically shows the original adopted budget of the town the final amended budget and comparing that to the to the actual results that's something here also you know to look at as well again it's it's it's summarized and and it shows that it shows the actual results for the general fund for the FIS gr of September 30th 2023 and finally within within this document I'm going to go back to the compliance section which is the last section of the document which begins on page 69 and runs to page 73 and this is the these are the reports that are required under generally accepted government auditing standards as well as the rules of the auditor general of the State of Florida and we are pleased to report within within these reports that we did not identify any significant deficiencies or two weaknesses internal control nor did our test find any instances of non-compliance so there's clean reports uh clean reports in the back as well there's there's no there's no specific findings to uh to report uh Within within the financial statements this year um also you also receive will receive you haven't already received with the document a letter and it's um it's a letter of of matters that we are required to communicate to uh communicate to you as as those who are charged with governance um they are all standard Communications they point out certain disclosures maybe you might want to look at if there was any new accounting policies that were adopted so gives a little overview of of the audit process and and what happened and and a couple things within here is that we did not encounter any difficulties in completing and Performing our audit um and there were no disagreements uh with management uh throughout the course of the audit um overall I just I'd like to thank uh Francine Chris Jeff uh the rest of the Town staff for the the assistance and the cooperation throughout the process you know we we come in and this is the second year that this is the second year that we're coming into the town and doing the audit you know we we asked for a lot of information we ask a lot of questions and we receive those responses we receive the responses to the questions we receive the informations and we process that and then once we do that we come back and we asked more questions and we asked for more information and the town was really up to the task of providing us what we needed to be in a position to render our opinion for the financial statements to be able to be issued and for us to be in a in a position to for the town to be you know on time with the audit and all caught up um I think it's a been a very positive year uh for the for the audit process uh for the town um so definitely kudos to all the hard work and and of the of the Town management and staff and um also I'd like to thank the the council uh for your uh for the for the opportunity to be to be of service to the town and for the trust that you have put in in me my team and my firm uh to perform the audit really is truly a a a privilege to to be able to be of service so um with that I I will leave it there I I'll open it up to to any questions that anybody may have at this time thank you very much for the opportunity to to present this evening and also for the accommodation to present with you on Zoom I would have loved to have been there with you tonight I know I've been there with you in the past and I will be there with you in the future um so I really appreciate the accommodation as well thank you very much thank you do we have any public comments on this no okay any questions anybody I have one okay go right ahead okay hi so um I was approached by a resident last week that apparently if money was missing are you the guy that finds it the the statement that was made to me was that there's $100,000 missing so I told them that I did not feel that was true that we have accountants and we have Financial people that go over our books so if there was $100,000 missing you would discover that no that would that would be that even even even prior to the audit process that would be discovered uh by the town's internal controls um the town does does monthly bank reconciliations and that would that would come out in a in in a bank reconciliation in that process um if there was if there was anything missing if there was anything that needed to be that was that was not that was not properly um coded or anything like that that would that would come up in that process and as far as from the process of of the a with the audit um our audit our audit does our audit it does based is based on uh on on materiality and it is also based it is a financial statement audit and if if anything like that came up we would definitely bring it to your attention and as part of our audit we did not we did not note anything anything of the sort and we did note that the town does do uh monthly Bank reconciliations thank you thank you again for all your your time and efforts into this one random question is part of your audit task to track check PO vendor reconciliation or that or is that too much internal detail for your firm so so as as as part as part of our process we do we do uh make sample selections and we do and we do walkthroughs of of of the process so there are we do check to of what we select we do check it to the check it from The Source from the Source document to the bank okay thank you I just have a couple of things um first of all I just want to acknowledge that there were no findings uh I I've been on the finance committee prior to be on Council for I think since 2013 and there's never been a year where there weren't any findings and I think that's an extraordinary accomplishment so I think it should be acknowledged um that staff got us caught up and put to get put systems in place the help of the finance committee that are working um secondly I I see a couple of members of the finance committee here I see Tracy Cassie um you guys met and saw this right and there were you you had nothing that you felt you needed to report out on you guys were all satisfied with it okay all right since there's nobody just wanted to check with you and then I just had one other question for you on page two on the back of your letter I'm just curious because I've never noticed in all of those years I've never noticed this before where where it's other matters and you talk about that there were things that were left out can you give me an example of some things that were left out when you say specifically that were left out what which um which section are you the other matters on on page on page two where it says on page two where it says other information or you on the on the letter itself let me I've got my here let me figure oh other matters understood I other matters correct so all right so give me an example of something that was left out because I think that's like a negative kind of thing and can be kind of misleading and I want to make sure that I understand it as well as everyone else right so as as part of our Auditor's report also as part of our communication to you we do explain and it's and it's and that's and it's all part of the process there's nothing there's nothing negative there's nothing negative about it nothing negative toward the town or our process um the there's certain within the document and it's specifically pointing out uh the required supplementary information and I pointed out during my presentation it requires supplementary information which is like the the budget to actual um the the the matters related to the uh to to the pensions it's those are just additional schedules information as well as the Management's discussion analysis um those are not those are not part of the audit so and like it says there what we basically do is is we just we just make sure that it's not it's not inconsistent with the financial statements but we don't we don't audit that information and that's specifically what we're saying in that letter and also in the auditor's report okay and then I just want to clarify and make sure I understand your answer to Laura's question what she asked you is do you check you know sort of the process all the way through and what you're saying is if I understand is that you do a sampling you don't certainly check every invoice and receipt all the way through the process but you do some sort of a limited sampling and use that as your determinant correct we do a sample of the population exactly we don't look at 100% of everything I got you thank you march now um you have a date uh certain that this has to be completed is that correct yeah it's it's it's already completed it I believe it's already been completed and and I I can let um uhh Chris and and Jeff and Francine speak too I think it's been even submitted to the submitted to the gfoa already and everything like that um so it's all it's all completed we just need a motion to receive and file okay well my point was um uh I enjoyed uh looking through it because it was uh very clear um to understand and um I I felt proud that uh all material that you needed to produce this document were in on time because I know in the past we've had some issues so thank you can I have a to receive in five receive and file second all in favor I I opposed passes five to zero thank you so much for your time for being with us this evening thank you very much have a wonderful evening thank you Andrew thank you Chris you're up item 16 everyone good evening Chris Wallace can you hear me with this hopefully no well it's on just not working very well love it all right well I guess I have to get really close I'm going to remove it good evening Chris Wallace Finance director for the the town um this is a a budgetary report for all the funds uh for the six months that ended March 30th 2024 March 31st sorry have to speak up I'm sorry all right I I'll try I'm trying trying to keep my lips off of this but it's gonna be difficult uh we'll become very good friends I guess so um I would think you this is like 50% of the year and I'll just make a general statement that revenues lag and I'll just give you a couple of examples um for instance electric bills the city taxes those as as every city does in Florida or at least almost every city and if you use your electricity in January you'll get your bill in February and you'll pay it in March and we'll get it in April so from the time of consumption to the time we actually get it you can see where there's a lag um same with with many Revenue sources so you have to keep that in mind likewise with expenditures uh invoices don't come in instantly so uh they tend to lag about a month now you know you don't find too many vendors submitting their invoices four months later but uh you know there are the occasional ones that do but most people will submit their invoices so everything lags a little bit we do not acrew because you don't have the staff forward and it's really not necessary I don't think for a city the size um overall I'd say your funds are in good shape we where we expect them to be overall at this point in the year a lot of your revenues large Revenue sources like property taxes and the special assessments that you have in uh the road and drainage fund that appear on the tax bill you get almost all of that uh you know say 80% of it or so um by this time of the year usually in December and January because when you pay your property taxes in November which almost everyone does because of the discount that's submitted to the tax collector of course and then the tax collector remits it to the taxing authorities so you get that mostly in December and January so I don't want people to get too excited when they see property taxes or oh it's 80% well that's where they should be this is also the time of the year starting in May where most cities go into what I consider to be like negative cash flow sorry I thought I turned off my reminder to take medicine um so when I say negative cash flow when I previously mentioned that you know you get a lot of your property taxes and special assessments uh from the tax bill yeah you get that kind of upfront but then you have to save it and spend it towards the end of the year so between now in December you generally will have more more money going out than you do coming in not always but just it's a typical typical thing so that's nothing to be concerned with you do have reserves to carry you for instance your your fund balance policy requires a minimum of 25% and a a goal of 50% but no more so 25% uh in my mind usually carries you from October to December when you start getting your cash so you have a cash flow issue that you need to cover but it also kind of is concurrent with hurricane season and I don't have to remind you of that issue hurricanes uh you do have a line of credit to kind of carry you over till FEMA comes assuming it's not total disaster but uh you know we make no promises about hurricanes it's uh you take them as they come so the general fund uh we do have some variances on several line items that we're looking into and we'll be adjusting as necessary but keeping within the overall appropriation uh I don't think you're going to have a problem in the roaded drainage fund and the transportation fund which is where you get your gas taxes from the state of Florida and the sales tax which is where you get the local option sales tax as your share from the uh Levy that the county provides uh those are those are on track maybe just slightly ahead Revenue wise but all that money is being moved over to fund 305 so I don't need to remind the the council about this or the staff but for the public who may not be aware uh the current budget uh and last year's budget for that matter uh but the current Year's budget is very much predicated on Capital Improvements and Road and drainage so uh we have cobbled together money from the general fund from the the transportation fund from the sales tax fund and from the road and drainage fund general fund from basically all funds of ponied money up into the capital Improvement program which is substantial U but that fund's going to you know be wearing a little thin as the sales tax goes away and these other funds are drying up so uh that's the nature of it the money's coming into all these funds and you're funding capital projects that certain be a surprise to you or anyone else so it will regard it will result from a budgetary point of view and uh a reduction in the fund balance but not below your your fund balance policy um because those excess revenues will be used to fund the Capital Improvements so I don't see anything that concerns me overall just a few items we did restructure the budget uh as far as moving Personnel around uh creating some new uh departments if you will with Personnel like building and code enforcement uh you're very well on the road and drainage fund we set up some new personnel there for the canal Banks so um you know that'll be a little that's that's we're just adjusting to that as I guess my point but with that um you know I'm just giving you a 30,000 foot view because I know you want to keep this to 10 minutes or less so I'll leave some time for questions any questions any Robert there was comment do we have public comment no yeah I I did ask but yeah um page three of nine your report regular salaries code we budgeted 60,000 for the year we spent 22,000 in the month of March what is going on well I think that was an adjustment because we uh did not have like code account number set up so we had to go back and kind of plug them back in they were being charged elsewhere so it just happened that instead of going back to say October November December we just plugged them all into March so you just created that account well it had been created we just weren't posting it there because uh the the payroll system the people hadn't been recoded to those new accounts so we did correct that so we're at 66% for the year it's not crazy high but we would expect that to be a the fisc year normal monthly so one of one of the reasons moving for right well uh you're just talking about salaries per se right or talking about salary expenses I'm just looking at one line that one line item where it's budget 91,8 year to date we're 6,856 and we did 22,000 in March that I'll go back and look and see what you'll finish the year we have a number of variances that we'll probably like I mentioned earlier we'll probably have to adjust within the overall parameters of each fund but uh I don't recall there being any serious concerns with code enforcement but I'll take a look at them and get back with you K remember sure and basically I'm looking at year-to day expenditures I know Revenue acts um computer subscriptions on the same page right well a lot of those are done up front loed all the beginning of the year already it is 30,000 we're at 37,000 so most of it yeah most of it is is front loaded I suspect we added we changed the a number of accounts and Francine has asked me to go do a deep dive if you will on some of these accounts and these are relatively small amounts as far as the things that would jump off the page for me but um I suspect that the staff it's it's kind of typical when uh an employee is used to charging to account a and then we change the structure and and even though we give them a list of okay account a is now to be charged to account B A lot of times they'll just look to see where they charged it last time and then we have to go back and fix it so a fixed services at the beginning of the year we know what subscriptions we have well we did what it should cost to continue him in the year now if something came up you know we approved a $110,000 subscription that we didn't expect to then that's an obvious you know reason all right so on on that's a good example um going into the budget we had a number of subscriptions that we identified that would be charged to that so what we have to do is go back and look to see what was actually charged with it and see if there were variances to subscription prices or was there something charged to that particular account that should have been charged to somewhere else this point the you know for the April report I think we'll have a lot of that corrected or at least answers for you so I just I'm going to answer that question for Chris because he's not looking at what I'm looking at in front of me computer subscription Services have been charged four times so we've paid for four subscriptions there's another subscription com I happen to see that because I was looking in the accounting records forward I did ask Chris to go back and look at all of the computer accounts because I don't know if they're charged in the right account the subscriptions are as you said very specific so we do know so I think we'll see and I think there's like six different computer and technology related accounts I think we'll see a cleanup of that before we go into the budget so we'll be able to really budget it well okay I I have a couple of questions again am I okay go ahead I hope that was I hope that was helpful that was helpful thank you page 426 in our book um on the unitate unadjusted balance sheet due to other governments 43,000 what would that be what would be an example of what's due to other governments that's due to Palm Beach County based off anou that was entered into in 2018 I'm sorry 2019 19 because the county overpaid the town for um and capacity fees for two years they also overpaid um Royal Palm Beach but they understood that we had no cashlow and because we had all the construction that was going to happen on Southern Boulevard we asked if they would enter into an agreement with us where when the connections came on they would take repayment from the connections rather than having us write them a check they have yet to charge connections against that account every year we actually go through it during the audit um as to whether they're going to charge connections to the account I think this year they prob need as I see we've got about $220,000 extra in our regular utility income from them okay so we're getting the connection fee instead of them getting it and that is corre getting this this line correct yeah I remember that overment yeah I think it should go to about half that amount based on me looking at these numbers right now and then quick question on the checks over 10,000 which hlss three lot that's a refund of tree mitigation that was a bond okay yeah thank you I asked in the future that we put a description of what each of those are so you could yeah yeah we we talked about that last time thank you manager and how many payments it was broken into because that's still not really clear no I understand that I agree with you um so my qu I have the same question I had the last time did the finance committee have a chance to review these numbers as well and they had no comments on that okay I uh just had two things I noticed you know how I get when I see those percentages really high anybody who's served on the committee with me knows that that's my thing um so I noticed uh well I'm looking right now on page seven of n of our report page 423 of the agenda um and I see that the computer hardware and software is very high um and I'm assuming that that question was just answered by uh what Robert just asked which is that that's a large front loaded expense perhaps one that's uh I mean it's super high like almost 200% so that's why I'm a little bit um concerned and then the other thing is we seem to be way off budget about the repair and maintenance of Machinery um is at 140% so those are two things that we need to look at if if I could I think you're looking at there's a comparative column on the very end it shows for fiscal year 23 that's a kind of a new column from 323 through 32 right correct we're still at 111 so last year we were off by 140% this year we're off by 111% it's really not that great it doesn't sound like we're budgeting properly that we maybe need to look at that a little bit more closely we'll take a look at it but if you if you look at the computer hardware and software it's only yes that's better this year that must have obviously been when we moved operations over there um perhaps some kind of a big expense uh the other thing that I noticed was um it seems that something went wonky with workers comp um and I when I I look on page uh and and this Happ it again last year but then this year again so I'm referring to Pages uh let's see I'm trying to get page numbers for people 418 of on 418 we have uh 43% last year down to 141% this year still not remarkable we also um remarkable I mean it's better but it's not perfect and then we have the same thing on page 422 166% which looks like it got adjusted down to 76% was there some remarkable work workers comp claim that we had or something that of or so workers workers comp is a the Florida League of cities Municipal invest Insurance trust fund handles your workers comp and what they do is about this time of the year they start asking you to forecast what your payroll will be for the subsequent year and sometime over the summer they'll give you the new rates for workers comp property uh you know liability all your coverages and um it's a guess at what your rates will be so every employee depending upon their position has a worker's comp rate and we assign that during the budget process depending on what the person's job description is I can tell you that you actually got a credit uh this past year from the workers comp mostly because of uh making sure contractors were um carrying workers comp so you didn't have to pay their premium I don't think the workers comp is significantly over budget I think the property we definitely yeah we did apprise you that the property went over what's going on with workers comp is the same issue you have with with the salaries where we changed a number of we added a number of departments people moved and I think we we are trying to reallocate that between all the workers comp uh charges so perhaps it's an increase in people that we have working at public Works which would be a higher workman's comp rate because their jobs are more oh yeah their jobs are related higher Le more higher rated by workers comp right so you have four workers comp codes the cheapest of which is Administrative Office clerical it's its pennies per $100 a payroll then you have uh Parks not other otherwise classified that would basically be your building inspectors but your highest rate is uh what they consider the irrigation crws which is the canals you get a feel for that it's 50 cents for an office worker and it's 2876 for a field person so then increasing our I'm correct increasing our field Personnel is what caused that rockiness in it's 28.7 six got it now you do pay all your insurances including workers comp in October so the first week in October you pay basically all your coverages and you get a slight discount for doing that too any other questions anybody okay I need a motion to receive and make a motion to receive and file second favor I opposed passes 5 to zero okay discussion of Code Compliance and foreclosures public item number oh item number 17 now we do the presentation first then the public comments then our discussion I was just beating Rober to it okay well it's not time but thanks good evening good evening mayor vice mayor and council members Mario maros the down for one of the officer manager right now for the Cod compliance Department uh this report in front of you is combination of uh activities between um January 1st and March 31st but you're going to see also um information that happened past that because we tried to give you an updated uh report of um where the department is at and we try also to information on the list of cases that were closed and cases that were that remain open uh you'll see numbers of cases that show uh from 2022 2023 uh many of those uh are being resol or Clos out and reopen on a new case uh so we're not driving cases U from 2022 refreshing the evidence for those cases in Creation with 2024 um you can see on our report a little prescription of but our Code Compliance U objectives are um obviously voluntary compliances are mangle uh that this department is uh complaint driven and that anonymous complaint or Fe complaints will not be processed U or responded by all Department um on page four this little um L of cases by amount we started the quarter with 128 cases during that period we opened 12 cases the reason why the the number of cases opening during that period was low is because our Focus was from cleaning out uh cases that were dragging for two years or more and and as a result of that we closed 77 cases um 67 of those were um through compliance 10 of them were dismissed and so by the end of that period we had about 63 cases open which had already been reduced um I believe on the 50 cases um the inspection number is is an approximate is not our our program uh really didn't have all the information uh on our inspections so we do a lot more what this is showing uh part of our adjustment is to document those inspections that we're doing now we do encounter residents we reinspect properties um several times before we get to in front of the magist I'm not going to go over um as specific cases here but you can see the list of U cases that were uh in front of the magistrate uh from January to March um on page five you'll see um a list of cases that have running fines I want to correct there um on the left uh block of cases case 2322 on the legro um please dismiss that that amount there is my knowledge that property doesn't have PES doesn't have what I'm p5s Allegro yeah and on that same block uh four cases to last um case 23 02006 Lantana it's repeated there it's twice up there for 20,23 405 uh during that period we only register up one cesy letter that was complied for um but in our next report for the next quarter you'll see a lot more polic letters we have an offic that is dedicated to Aspire permits vs and small of those who arec um on the following page you'll see a list of um sign violations courtesy letter list and the reason for this page is because I want to explain how the Cod compliance work you bring a complaint to us uh we don't just site the person or the property you're complaining about we make sure that uh anyone in the town on the condition inside as well so we had a numer a number of um complaints about signs uh believe in the month of March March March um you'll see on page number eight um there were several complaints from few uh complainant and the way it works for us is that we can go inside the neighor for the same Val you have and outside you so during that time we we observe any other property that have issue with their signs pretty much anybody that has sign the town is outside the sign isow can I ask that question so what you're saying then is that the complaint registered by Keith Harris on two 9 2024 generated these approximately 40 or 50 other sign violations throughout town that other people were under thank you um and I I'll take this opportunity is this later on on my report um you know we looking to uh create and ceriz Sops grave rures uh for new owners as well as assist events to educate our residents and visitors of what what to look forward and what not to do uh so the property is now violated uh trying to use our websites emails and brochures to educate our residents um we also as I just I just said we have toone equally and apply um the same rule for everybody um we want also help the public to understand that anonymous complaint ficial complaint will not be processed and that the C department is not a political or um you know Revenge what well you were in March you were used that way in March historically um it has been tried to be used as a weapon but while we are in charge of this department we're going to make sure that it's not we use uh you know an ethical procedure we treat everybody your complain it's going to be good at if we me anyone um if you haven't respond to anyone please reach out to me uh my pH should be on the website it's also relevant the front um sometimes it take it take more than one days for us to obtain evidence inside somebody that we complain about and so it takes time for us to actually we want to make sure that once we case we can get through all the way and it's not going to fall we're going to lose pH you have your so I want to talk about selective code enforcement so one of our council members actually tried to call in a code enforcement complaint against one of our residents a single mother and he was told that he had to send an email because you can't so next day this Miss was told Mr Harris sent these the next day many of these so go ahead so it was amazing that Although our code sign code is deemed by our attorney at the time who still works for ter cvia law hey Glenn um said that the sign ordinance was unconstitutional and unenforcable I was still told that every resident that supported me and put up a banner on their property would get a letter of Code Enforcement so I did did not want to inconvenience the residents and I didn't want them attacked by the town by for enforcing me so I took the signs down thank you for bring every prop in compliance but as you said every other sign out there is not in compliance according to what is it is it a unconstitutional unenforceable ordinance so then everybody's sign is legal then I'm confused so these are based on size only we're not enforcing for the campaign this list that I that I show here in this report our signs are not in compliance based on size you're missing something on South d Road well there's this is a moving list there's many more missing there um as as we explained on the report this is as we are driving through the town we observing this add okay so our options here as I see them let me I'm not just one more qu one more so Glenn you guys have been working on the sign ordinance of far as I know for about two years now when are we going to get a sign ordinance that we can use and enforce I believe it's going to be on for first reading at the June meeting um and the unconstitutional part content based signs are unconstitutional but the other regulations the town had um size for example are still allowable regulations so just because one portion of the code is held unconstitutional then doesn't mean the whole thing you know that all say you don't throw the baby out with the bath water you just kind of cut out the part that's unconstitutional but but we've working on the sign code I think it came to the council a couple of times and got massaged over the years and I believe in June should be on for uh not sure if it's first reading or discussion it's on June 4th for discussion is this something that has to go my question is is this something that needs to go back to to to like the ulc I mean do we need to have if we have this many people that are in violation of the size of their signs I'm presuming I'm looking at some of these addresses that these are businesses that have had these signs and been in operation for a very long time so what you're saying is we have to tell these people they either have to recreate a smaller sign to fit within our current code um or take take down the sign completely I mean what where are we we need to redesign a sign sign ordinance I'm sorry for interrupting Len please forgive me I would like to be a little bit more specific the sign code is essentially residential and Commercial 100% of the residential sign code that we have on the books is content driven it's by the type of sign so for those we can only enforce size and that's why we had to come back and rewrite the whole code but we have a number of questions to bring to Council in discussion and it's scheduled on June 4th commercial is less content driven um there are um location and size things that work better for commercial than it did the way we wrote Our residential so does this need to be look by question still stands is this something that needs to be brought to our committee prior toing the council at their June 4th meeting on how they wish to proceed because later on in this agenda we have to decide um if we are officially going to stand up those committees we have first reading on a committee ordinance tonight and there will be a second reading on June 4th and we put in tentative appointees that we've been told about and we need to decide if we're putting up those committees so my suggestion is finish the night out decide what committees are being put up discuss sign code first discussion among amongst yourself as counsel and if you choose to then send it to ulc and Glenn if there's anything that you wanted to add please do and I hope you don't mind my interjection of course not Francy and you're was very helpful um I would say that just for the council's memory or new knowledge for some of you our Direction was to rewrite the existing code as opposed to creating a brand new code frankly a brand new code probably would have been simpler but um so the direct was to to work with the existing code so you're going to see a code that's based on your existing code obviously you can make a lot of changes to it that's why it's coming to you for discussion if you think the sizes should be bigger smaller that's up to you so this is really the first real discussion this Council will have with this newly formatted code and I think we are collecting and Mario says the list of who's in the AR greater than six we continue to add to the list because these are just the ones you see this isn't going out looking for signs if we went out looking for signs we'd probably find a whole lot more so the question is what size is the right size and on sides okay so I see are you done Francy I am I hope that was helpful thank you Laura you had something you wanted to say hello Glenn so just just for clarity sake in I'm going to say it was springish of 2022 and this um Council gave sign variances to Aldi Culver and I don't think we gave it to AutoZone do those variances stand I'm gonna have to look at those I don't remember um 22 so let me take a look at that and that'll be part of our report in June okay thank you I would imagine if you gave a variance that it would have to stand but I don't probably question yeah thank you right probably I don't want to commit to that without going back and looking at it but I think you're probably right if you gave a special it would just make sense for it to stand but go ahead phis Robert oh Robert was on first I'm sorry thank you any public com did yes I did there was no public missed it um yeah you do have oh I do have public comment go ahead sure miss not clear he was done with his presentation yet but we'll take the public on sorry Mark by the way you can't see the10 North Road I do commend the code enforcement um Department they've been working hard the past two years to try and bring a civilized approach um to getting issues dealt with and properties's compliant however what I want want to bring your focus to is the inconsistency of information that I am observing as a member of the public as an example I've watched a few of these uh magistrate hearings when they're brought to my attention and I look at these reports and I see and I listen to the Town Council meetings and I hear somebody paid an $80,000 fine yet in 25 magistrate hearing I hear a statement made that findes are not to exceed $5,000 there begins my confusion so as Council I guess the public as a member of the public I'd like to know what the fine process is why was there a limitation placed on F so anybody can do what they want can we just do anything we want we don't exceed $5,000 um in addition to the way the information is presented are people being given the same fair treatment somebody comes in and throws down rocking hundreds of square feet of asphalt obviously they're in front of code but what happens at these magistrate hearings is we here they comply they comply but perhaps what should be shared with the public is how did they comply right that information is not provided in the magistrate hearing how did one comply sometimes it is sometimes yes they followed through they got their permit they did this they did that but if there's sometimes there's no information at all so there's a concern then you have to submit a public records request to learn uh what should have been obviously stated in a magistrate hearing I don't I don't see what's wrong with saying how did somebody comply um also development orders I this I'm just bringing this up development orders I would encourage code if it's their in their perview to review all development orders and see if they' can comply with and if they haven't then I think that's something that needs to be reviewed thank you have anybody else yes Mr sish good evening uh Frank sand 1541 North Road uh like Paul is still beaten a dead horse you know the overlay didn't f for businesses and I C woman backer resigned for the double standard of code for where some business illegal business were allowed to operate in the town and others could it is still existing five years it's still existing there some illegal businesses that haven't been backing for the magistrate for 15 months some of them have been in business for over 20 years what kind of taxes they paying I residential not one went to commercial they B they pay their BTR and that's it they sit idle in a Zone in nowhere they're protected by the town staff Town staff keeps saying it takes time to come in to compliance I have to get credit to the code agents they're more than fair when they represent their case I have few V hearings war and fair but the problem is Town St interference come into compliance you have to have laws on the books how how long does it take year and a half two three years for something to be resolved like to see something happen take a stand clean up our town I wouldn't want to live next to an industrial place making concrete products or tractors and trailers driving in and out all night it's not fair to the residents it's not who we are you know you got a royal exemption Royal Town exemption from the state or recognition you put you put those businesses alive on overi it is definitely it's just I don't even know what to say it's just unreal that's all anything else they say Cass sui I just have a couple questions first of all our code officers are doing a really good job thank you for that um in the uh agendo memo they put out I had a question uh they make the comment that the office has previously opine that false names and address do not comport with Section 162 and um my question question is how do you prove something's false What mechanisms are put in place to prove that it's a false name it clearly states in Florida State Statute that they can't be anonymous and that a code officer may not ISS initiate or investigate a complaint by way of anonymous complaint but if somebody gives a name and an address a legitimate name and address What mechanisms is the town using to provide their false or they believe they're false is it because the person doesn't live in the town because I remember last year a bunch of the complaints came in from somebody doesn't live in the town and town staff was all up in arms because the person lived in Ral Beach what doesn't say in the criteria where they need to live they can live in the state of Alaska and make a complaint we have a lot of people that come in during season from all over the world into our community with horses so the complaints can come everywhere so what procedures are being done are those complaints being left out that needs to be addressed um the other thing I'd like to address is our code section on the website um it needs to be more user friendly it might alleviate a lot of uh tasks uh put on the town clerk for public records request if we were able to follow some of those complaints and then I was looking through because some of my complaints were uh when we first started doing code they made uh staff made a comment that we're not going to take anything they have to be you know by somebody in the residence one of the residents have to make the complaint but then there were several complaints for people's grow grass that was a little too high made by Town staff so I would I put in public records request to find out who made that complaint in town staff because obviously it was okay for Town staff to make complaints on grass but residents had to tattle on their other on their neighbors so um if if and I'm looking in some of these complaints and we do have Town staff making complaints so there are some things out there glaring and I would hope that our town staff who drives around and continue to make the complaints and not put all the burden on the residents I I need to clarify a couple of these things when we're done uh I was just gonna ask you if you'd like to respond to any of those questions I would the reason and I would also like Mario to be at the podium and I would like for our attorneys to participate in this conversation we have a code presentation tonight because we need to decide as it how we go forward I said I wasn't sure whether he was finished with this presentation do you say this com if you wish to say this go go right ahead okay we need to decide as a town how to proceed with code enforcement now we have been trying to do Equitable enforcement that's what Mario Mario said when we got the sign complaints we we kept our eyes open for other signed complaints I've mentioned to some of you when I'm at one corner because of a complaint when I say I I mean the town when the town is at one corner and they notice that all three corners have the same issue they will go to those three corners because FDA and the council has said FD more than four RVs visible from the street and this was done last May and June um any health safety issue and unpermitted uses and also manure we are able to self-initiate because those are health and safety violations and if I miss something please share it with me you are correct and and part of my presentation I wanted to point out is that for us to work effectively we we had to be able to to be prod um I I understand that in the past this department was run differently and officer will respond to um even staff or if I don't get a resident to complain about this violation that I'm driving by every day I can write it up and that is not consistent in and and opens up the town for liability because then you end up in selective enforcement you can't just side whoever um a neighbor doesn't like or or you know any Resident Cil person whoever complains about one person and then somebody's doing the same thing across the ship from that person must not be inside because if you make this department just compli then we can operate equally for all the residents we're also trying to improve the reporting you see the quarterly report here in the past the followup on the cases was definitely not timely and what we do now is we have a part-time we have two part-time code officers one so that we get the week covered and one so that we get the weekend cover this particular quarter we caught up I think on a 100 cases um we have the magistrate asking us why it's taking so long for the cases to come forward it's because we cannot keep up the grass cases those were not pursued that was an outside company and that was several years ago we did not pursue that we pursue the tree cases tree cases take an incredible amount of time FD take an incredible amount of time right of way and different types of permits take quite a long time so that's why it takes Mo you know the the period to get them through as a problem but the biggest problem that we have is quite honestly not our Code Compliance function or the time it takes to bring something to code it's the actual code itself thank you the way the code is written it um is very difficult to enforce um when you say so many things are not allowed then people um just do whatever they want and I'm sitting here after the fact these things have been happening for over 20 years or as long as the town's been Incorporated and I've answered people before the code is the answer to code so we have to go through and we have to find a way where we can bring things to as much compliance as we can I.E by getting them to let us look at site plans I.E by putting in buffers I.E by changing the access either from okobe or from a lettered road we have a lot of things that we can do but we can't do it with the code that we currently have we have to look at changes to the code to change the way the town is we are not pursuing historical Legacy we are going to do as directed by the council and in a later part of the agenda you'll see that we have um a plan to bring to you removal of historical Legacy from the code but we still have to address non-conforming lots and non-conforming structures at the time the Town Incorporated there were around 650 or more non-conform ing lots and structures today there are just marginally less than that because what was non-conforming then is nonconforming today and I can keep going on about this but what we have to do and why we want to start this conversation is the way we fix it is we take the issues and we look at the code now with regard to the reporting we follow the law on the reporting we are looking at fixing our computer system and we have been um getting more functionality at it but we found something that has a lower cost and that will have better reporting um and we are in the process of trying to look at whether it will work for us um I didn't disagree with the comments about we should put what happened with the case if you look in your agenda item you'll see that the code folks have said what the disposition of the case is and all of the case dispositions are included in the special magistrates orders all those special magistrates orders are a matter of public record we are revising our website so the comments about that are also very good with regard to fines fines are generally following the Florida Statutes generally speaking we can do up to 250 a day on the fines for a firsttime offense the magistrate decides what that fine will be the magistrate decides whether there gets to be extra time to come into compliance or not she um tries to be as fair and consistent as she can um and generally speaking the fines will run at 250 a day a repeat violation may run at $500 a day both of those are by State Statute and the town has adopted those in addition we have some very serious types of code violation that fall into the category of irreparable and irreplaceable if you take trees down it's going to take a long time for them to grow back so that falls into the irreparable and irreplaceable some of the livestock violations have been considered irreparable and irreplaceable and I say some because they don't always fall into that category um but we have been able to get some of them in there that's f up to 5,000 a day per occurrence you take trees down 10 of them and they're down for six months it could be 5,000 per tree per day in six months nobody has gotten a fine like that but we have done a special event fine that was $5,000 a day because that is irreparable and irreplaceable and if you do something that damages or you know we can't undo it's $5,000 finally with regard to fine reduction our code we were going to bring forward and we did bring forward a draft for discussion to the Council on fine reduction and when we went back and we researched the way our code was written the code actually makes fine reduction generally speaking a magistrate function and the magistrate follows the Florida statutes for how to reduce fines and if I skip something that needs to be clarified I think I picked up every item that was brought up now the one thing I didn't get into specifically is because we try very hard not to talk about specific cases in the council venue because Council needs to be distanced from code cases because those code cases may end up in front of the council to be voted on relative to land use or other code matters and it is important for Council to remain neutral through the process that being said a number of the properties on okobi Boulevard are in fact covered by our code and the way that they are covered by our code is that they are covered either through the fact that they happened prior to the town having its own code in the period of time between 2006 and 2008 when the county acted on the town's behalf it is hard for us to undo what was done then we can only try with mitigating things like other code measures such as being able to get a site plan to review um changing access requirements changing buffer requirements there are a number of things we can do relative to making them better some of the things have statutory protections these are not things that we wrote Into the code these are things that have been sitting in that code for 20 years and the only way to try to address it is to look at the code sections that we need to advise and I would rely on our attorneys to say more about this I know it was a lot but we're here to discuss this Robert I believe your light was on did you Mario first of all I'm so sorry because I got like pushed into allowing public comment and I'm really not you were done with your presentation were you done with your it okay all right Robert you still have some public comment we still have public comment okay you want to continue with that now yes let's finish up the to the okay thank [Music] you um you know you guys doing a good job I know this is not perfect government never been perfect and all citizen always ask I'm seeing is issues about up and I think the should be I'm not like person go harass somebody or go R somebody you know but somebody put in the building or something they're supp to be building their job is to dve around and to see what's going around and if they can see it then they can address it um it's not like they're not there to will harass the residents but at the same time you want to make sure things are being I left to come back for another six years now I have some of my neighbors come in there go one of just mve had a bom back there totally remove 34% of the bonds the W the garage is being CL new windows up take drainage I come out here I a perit no no permit now I'm not being a en but then when something my property I have Bally water nobody water and if you put living struct there you don't get a perit and nobody can see if it's being done properly that's that's the issue or is somebody putting a back there they put on the Panic shop and they changing or or whatever they're doing and they taking they can take I'm not saying everybody doing it but they can take the used waste wall and just D it in the ground that's a basic thing just want put address and see it if you can see it then you can address you can send them a letter you can purple letter make sure they with it if not just them out simple as that thank you any more yes uh Mr M40 when I hear a comment that well there was a legal business this year before the Town Incorporated and then continued that is nonsense they were not legal under palage county code I don't care if they were here for 100 years they were never legal they shouldn't be they're not legal today no reason why go to court ma these are industrial operations on our main main road coming into town with concrete files as high as the pine trees right there's a business there just happens to be known by the same family member for decades but the business that was there before in corporation is gone that family is gone it's a new business there that came after incorporation still illegal still against our code and then I hear some kind of rumor that well because we contracted with the business that might give a that they can continue that's nonsense and it's not just this property what about the people that go by the code that have a business they love the have here and pay the property taxes but they have their business on industrial property somewhere else and they pay the heavy heavy taxes it's not fair to those people because they're trying to do the right thing but then there's their competition is here in town skating and not doing the right thing these are life safety issues and Industrial operations and is life safety there's no reason a code enforcement complaint need to be filed the town need to do something about it and please let me say they were not I never said they were legal I never said they were legal businesses I said in addressing them we have to address our code first because they cannot be addressed adequately such as they don't operate here in town anymore with the code that we currently have and I really again wish that our attorneys would weigh in here because much of this is legal do we have more yes two more uh M [Music] selano hello Jo yes joov pains me to say this but I believe that what you're looking at is exactly why you need to stand up so commit you our code isless and it's it means an un unexplainable amount of review reworking remodeling I can't sayoun how many hours our advisory perit said just trying to understand what the C before we even try to bring something to the Past uh Council to give them to even give them advice you know we were under a lot of scrutiny because it took us a lot of time to you know get one thing squared away but if you look at our code it it's it's a it's a quagmire of cut and paste and um very very uh difficult to just to navigate and I imagine our two part of Time food enforcement guys are facing the same unsurmountable struggles I me how are they supposed to digest it be familiar with it without some sort of help it needs to be cleaned up and cleared up and I don't think staff needs to be able to do that by themselves and cost us all that money we have volunteers and one of them that are willing to help do that it's just a matter of being pushed in the right direction for advisory committee and then giving usk Miss miles evening Council good evening Council Mar and Miles um this has been kicked down for as long as I can remember and it keeps going and going and going you guys want to act the Committees and they're going to take time with it you need to throw it out all of it the sign code everything pick a signs like this do something like that and say hey it's a residential sign this is the size you can have keep it simple don't do yourself and make a committee spend hours and hours and hours going through all of the pages that has already been going through I sat on committees with Joe I sat on committees with Virginia enough throw it out when you guys decided and I was on Council when you decided to do the roads we made a decision to go forward make a decision between the five of you and staff to come up with a sign toode this residential because that's what we started talking about and then it got out of hand with code enforcement and oke Boulevard and I can bring all of that stuff up and who said what who didn't go where it's not going to solve a problem that we have the residents like things to be simple that they can understand not legal language we have attorneys for that when we need them but our sign code and our codes in general were handed down by another municipality and a big municipality if we want to be locks ahy grads then lets us be locks ay gr because that's what the people and the residents want they don't want a lot of legal mumbo jumbo and they'll come into compliance if they understand what they need to do we have residents out there that have five signs toting whatever they want to sell all they need is one hey we have an agress business here you want us to know what we sell give them a call on the phone they don't need five signs they only need one and I believe if I look up in the the agricultural um when you go to get an agricultural exemption perit it does say one sign that you're allowed to have on the property not down the street on your property advertising what you have Town needs to figure it out staff needs to figure it out don't kick this to a committee and then let them try and dissect it and then it comes back it won't get done thank you any no May oh good Robert you're late on first sorry if I get this out of order but laor you turned yours off okay my mic's on got shut off maybe I was the bad speak loud L the right to farat what it say about signs on agricultural classified proper what is the right to pharmac say about signs I feel like this is a pop quiz um hate to throw it to Tanya Tanya I'm not sure if you have that answer up top of your head either I think it is I think it says uh the talent can't signage and property that is correct that is correct one sign and we cannot control signs on agricultural property s bo sence bo keep that in mind my question Mario come up here Mario please pretty much have all these property that you listed did you see if they had agricultur classification put these people's address in an agenda in the public without even knowing signs are we allow allow and the signs I put up were on a properties also oh right so you know the council direction is to focus on these environmental and Public Safety these five items from June 2023 you said to yourself that that TI your hands and you think it should be be more gave Direction all this time looking at these other St before we complaints about also descrition there when we complaints we are out there doing our job and we observe violations possible violations we can address okay so even though Council told you clear Direction excuse me point of order asked and answered he said he was doing his job he said he was doing his job jun23 let me corre I the manager you direction to how we approach the code I told I don't direction for the council the department to uh operate without interest from the in% support operation at the same time my point is when Council gives Direction that's C Direction counc needs to change direction the council change Direction you don't change it on your own that's my point next question these site triangle letters that we send out send out s triangle letters a lot of people comply triangle what happens if they the next will be send and part of the solution could be that if they don't correct that we haven't gotten that situation yet this critical S I can't emphasize how important is for Public Safety I know we talked about in the past you know having more efficient process that you get the letter give a chance to do it but it's got to be quick Public Safety if they don't do it then we talk about we do it we back charge I don't think that's I think we are doing it but not back charging them so if there's any way to make that process we have to bring back and thank you for bringing this up because you've been it's a good point our Nuance abatement ordinance needs to be revised because a current code VI you get reasonable time generally two weeks our new sement code requires 21 days of notice and then a process after the notice and it just doesn't really work so we've been using Code Enforcement rather than nuisance abatement and we'd much prefer to use nuisance abatement where we can go back cut and build we we never it never got a second we get to you know the altar but we don't always get married yeah we're gonna move along go I go back to answer the agricultural sign question they didn't pull up the statute on that and it does say that uh that in a non-residential Farm building that is located on land Bonafide a then it's exempt but a farm sign means a sign erected use maintain uh which relates solely to farm produ merchandise or service solar produced manufactured servic on farm so they couldn't put up a sign for example selling Ford automobiles you know it has to relate to farm products that are being sold on the farm so uh again a quick look I think we can regulate signs but I'll do a deeper dive but not relating to farm products Len don't go away so all these words we've been using for you've been up there for at least 30 40 minutes now it all comes down to one thing what is the definition what is u l DC stand for please inside Land Development code and the last word is code code so if our Land Development codes are not are not what the town needs they've been cut and Pac they have not been they've been reviewed by ulc and not all committees are effective def depending on who's sitting on them sometimes and who the chair is so these committees need a strong chair that are not going to let people take over the meeting and just waste everybody's time the ulc is a really important committee they were going through these codes they've been put on Hiatus for what three years now so uh we need to get that back because he can't do his job if we don't have the codes to back him up that's that's that's it and uh that's it so I say let's bring the Committees back let's get our codes and Glenn what has our town attorney been doing about updating our codes so sitting there I don't think you really had a chance to formally meet her yet is Tanya early uh Tanya from our office has been uh working with code enforcement for the last few months and I think the Mantra that I keep hearing is is you know consistency because one complaint we hear a lot is selective enforcement andc consistent enforcement so we've really been preaching uh consistency in the code after we have our presentation tonight one possible direction is to really do a deep dive and look at changing the code you've heard Francine talk about a lot of the issues uh might be with the code itself um you know the town um doesn't have a robust code staff you have Mario you have somebody else but it's not like you have six code officers I'm not saying you need six but you know how much of a commitment does the town really want to make and the second part of this presentation was going to be foreclosures because foreclosure is your ultimate tool right you can assess fines all day long but if nobody ever pays the fine or they ultimately go in front of the magistrate for a fine reduction and most magistrates once the property is in compliance will significantly reduce the fine because the legislative purpose of Code Enforcement is compliance not punishment um but foreclosure is the ultimate tool most towns don't do a lot of foreclosure for a very basic economic fact let's make believe I'm gon to make up numbers make believe it a property that's worth a million dollars and there's a mortgage on it for $800,000 and the town has a code lean that comes after the mortgage uh for $300,000 it makes no sense for a town to start a foreclosure action because the the bank is in front of you so most of them if you're going to think about foreclosure the first thing that we always recommend is you do a quick title search and figure out what is in front of you from a lean standpoint I don't think the town really has a policy is that how do we bring those to you right well all right I don't know look we're a town of 3,000 residents we're all Neighbors foreclosure is not in our vocabulary okay unless it would be Last Resort so I'm not sure why we're having that discussion the question was what has torcivia Law done in the past few years to update our ulc because you keep telling us they're unenforceable they're not right they don't fit so that's my question I'll go back to something Francine said before the town often gets engaged but doesn't get married so I can't remember how many times we've had first readings on codes and then second reading it fails so you know back to the idea of consistency if if Town's going to direct us to go on a certain path and the sign code is a great example that's been back and forth for two years um so I don't remember the sign code coming back and forth for two years I'm going to defer to Francine because she's more the historian than I am but I think it came back the last time about nine months ago but either way we are fully ready to go forward and make as many changes as you want but you know you just said foreclosure is not in our vocabulary well that's good for us to know because that is normally in your toolkit now is that was one council member that said that that was not the entire Council so and that's what we need we need consent ensus we need direction from the entire Council because you're five individuals with five different priorities um so if if for closure is a tool you want in your toolkit then you talk about what's the parameters for foreclosure you know first parameter the the lean has to be more than a mortgage second parameter is is it a certain dollar amount anything over 100,000 50,000 200,000 whatever it is and then the process is pretty easy you go to the magistrate you ask for permission we um we understand the process so my next question is regarding code enforcement um commercial properties that or properties that are not commercial not Zone commercial but properties open to the public so when you're open to the public does that open your door to allow the town or code enforcement officer to walk onto your property inspect yes normally code enforces what they can see from the road they generally are not going up to someone's door knocking on the door I'm talking about these businesses that are not in compliance open for business you know we're open for business public welcome is the town permitted to go on the property to inspect this is a good time to turn it over to Tanya I can see her ready to jump in so I let you I know I want to Le oh hi are you an she's an attorney as well right with our firm for well I didn't see her get introduced in the beginning of the meeting sorry about that should have done that um Madame mayor council members my name is Tanya early I work with Glenn um hopefully you can all hear me um so the answer is if a if a business is open to the public a code enforcement officer can go on to the property and um report their observations um generally speaking when you have private property um that's not open to the public um there are are additional steps that need to be taken in order for the officer to enter private property so once you open your doors and welcome the public then you're also responsible to protect the public on your property you're supposed to supply them with possibly uh Ada um Standards toilet perhaps uh specific walkways handicap sites things like that it's a different ball game than just residential property correct so there are definitely going to be different building Cod code standards that apply to public property as opposed to residential property when I say public I mean open open to public so yes there are different varying building codes that would apply so that is my question now while we're cleaning up our codes then maybe we should just allow our code enforcement officer to do his job regard in properties that are open to the public okay we'll talk does are you done with your comments so one other thing Andrew was working on the plazas regarding the handicap spots and do you have an update on that because uh Andrew the previous code enforcement officer I was not aware of that a specific project I do have uh a project uh inspection to all the commercial properties with our soning uh director and we work in coordination so we can address several issues on on commercial property because if they don't have the signs the sheriff cannot enforce people parking in handicap spots that don't have a decal right thank you do you have your yes is bright you got batteries did um one I support foreclosure well we're GNA talk about that in just a second I'm G direct us in that direction but thank you um your I absolutely love the idea of throwing of throwing out code that is ineffective conflicting no longer applicable and writing something that belongs to us for us and that affects us versus trying to put together bits and pieces of something and call it code and this is a question I don't expect an answer but Glenn this is kind of directed it you as well so statute says somebody files a code complaint they have to be real and identify themselves okay and and this has happened in the Groves Sam Smith gives an address provides a non-working phone number or not his phone number and an email so town did their homework Sam Smith doesn't live in lockah hatchee groves Sam Smith could live anywhere the address that was given was a um mailboxes R Us address um the phone number was to a pizzeria and the ad the email address was magic zebra gmail.com but this person person would respond through email so a couple code complaints were issued are those valid again that the statute requires the town not to accept Anonymous complaints the legislature didn't provide any more guidance in terms of how the town's responsibility to look into whether Sam Smith is a real person he doesn't have to live in town uh you know I could be driving through town or have a mother or Aunt or someone who lives in town and I'm calling on her behalf so the town doesn't have an affirmative obligation to go Ahad and track down and identify each and every person that calls and says are you really Sam Smith so that's you want to call it a glitch in the bill that's a glitch in that law on the one hand it says you can't be anonymous on the other hand it doesn't say you can't make up a fake name now it's logical that they shouldn't be able to but it doesn't say that and how does staff discern that how do they know whether Sam Smith is real or not they have an obligation to for the health safety of the community to check out any violation if there's no violation no harm no foul if there is a violation then they're going to move forward and process it so the fact that Sam Smith could not be a real person but did correspond back and forth through the town with email made this person real and and again I don't expect a definitive answer but just throwing it out there yeah it doesn't make them real but it doesn't make them Anonymous either right they they just didn't label themselves as they made themselves Anonymous by virtue of being dishonest right and so Madame mayor I might be able to jump in here also please do and I'll just note that other jurisdictions have faced the same issue um for example the city of Tampa had a problem with one person who was a habitual um false filer so to speak and they actually were able to identify this person and verify that they were using false information and they switched their process over to require um that a complaintant actually submit a notorized form um thus requiring them basically under penalty of perjury to report truthful information to the jurisdiction I'm not necessarily saying that we take it to that level but I think what Glenn is trying to say essentially is it's kind of a balancing act between um the information that's received and how staff responds but generally speaking I I would be cautious about saying that someone that that staff has evidence to believe is providing fictitious information um that that a complaint should be generated solely based on that um I would advise caution if I were asked about that so that's just my two cents for the record thank you for the record regardless of the number of complaints from an address outside of the town we have investigated all such complaints when they came in from Lorie Richards in Royal Palm Beach we investigated all of those complaints when they came in from Keith Harris in Mayo Florida we invest instigated all of those complaints when they came in from Kimberly um Richardson or something I can't remember the name in pompo Beach we invest we investigated the complaints however one thing that hasn't been mentioned by our attorneys is that the town does get to reserve the right to look in public records to see if a person does exist do we have time to do that we do not but if you give me a Google phone number and I call you I would expect courtesy to get a call back particularly if we need to clarify the complaint which is what the issue is an email back to clarify the complaint that's also fine but if somebody puts a complaint in and doesn't clarify it upon request by phone or email then it's hard for us to actually proceed with the complaint and I think that's the point of making sure that we are able to have a real point of contact even if it's a p name just as long as we get clarification I'm gonna summarize no I have one more just a quick question please is there a company J um Glenn that's out there that just does code Rights Code all day for municipalities different mun IP alties because you know we have volunteers that will do it we have an attorneys that will do it but I don't think the attorneys actually have time to do it nor can we afford for them to do it so I would like to know if there's companies out there that do this well obviously uh you have a company that's helped with your comprehensive plan and Zoning codes um and those are obviously part of the code um in terms of what's typical code enforcement cutting the grass and things like that I'm I'm not think my question yeah I'm not thinking of anybody that writes those codes I know there's companies that enforce them you've hired some of those in the past some of those companies okay okay but I we're gonna we're getting ready to end this item I'll let you have one more thing but we've got 25 items to get to it's 8:35 and we beat this horse dead and we still haven't gotten to the meat of the issue so go ahead and say what you want to say my question is you says throughout the codes I've only Mario have you had a situation where you went in front of the magistrate and somebody challenged the code and the magistrate said that code's no good they're not in violation have you had that situation we would have BR bring something in front of the magist that we were not sure we can enforce yeah so those codes work that we're using for the situations that we've approached so far sign yeah we've had variance for the drive-thru sign variance for size and content okay um nuisance abatement we don't have an efficient process where when there's a public safety issue that needs to be addressed a quick enough response that we can address it in back charge other than that I don't understand this throw out all the codes and start over again yeah I I I didn't say I I I I actually agree with you Robert which is amazing um so here's the thing I think we need to get the UL I think to summarize what we've got here I think we get get the ulc back up really quickly because they've got a lot of work to do and I thank the people who have volunteered to be on that committee for their service and you've got a lot hard road ahead of you I think um Mario while while you keep identifying your your signing issues because it is something that came to your and I appreciate your integrity that came to your attention that you keep identifying them but don't move forward with any compl you know official Complaint until they can be addressed or even a letter until we figure out what the heck we're going to do with that and that's probably the first thing we ask youc to do but I think the real meat of this issue tonight is that we've just skirted around and not addressed is what are we gonna do about and I'm referring to page 440 of our agenda and you know this is one of those things that that keeps getting kicked down the road and what are we going to do about something like can I name a specific property I mean should what should I do I don't know how to do this but okay so here's the problem we have certain people in town that are in violation in excess of$ two or $300,000 who have basically told our code enforcement officer to pound sand when he's gone on the property and have continued to do that and continue to create new violations and stood there and go I'm going to do whatever I want to do okay and this has been going on for years so now we're at a point where Phyllis doesn't want to foreclose on their property it may not according to Glenn even be prudent to foreclose on their property because all we might be doing is getting the bank paid off and us still winding up with nothing after spending a lot of of of attorney fees right so we have to come up with a position position that is a reasonable position and a at what time at what at what point do we say okay you can't tell marot to pound sand anymore okay you can't look at our town official who comes on who comes there and tells you that you can't continue flooding your neighbor's property you can't continue indust dropping industrial race into our aquafer you can't continue whatever is it three months is it six months is it a year what is our threshold and then what in the hell are we going to do okay that's what we need to establish tonight because we have a page full of these cases that exist and this refers to these code complaints these refers to these B this goes to these businesses that have been in business for 20 years 30 years 50 years I don't care how many years but these are people that have been in violation of our codes religiously for decades in many cases so we need a policy to address these issues and to do it now and to stop saying we're going to do it later we're g to let somebody else look at it they're in violation period end of story what are we going to do about it what is your recommendation what would you like to see happen tell me what in an ideal world what would you like to see happen to this guy who told you I don't care I think it we definitely need to take an approach where the towns will stop allowing any changes to the property any of the permissions that we uh have to Grant to these properties for example if a property is 20 acres and wants to divide in four uh five acres but they have many violations running and they haven't corrected violations and the town has to approve that there should be a way we can have a policy that nothing that has to be approved by the town is going to go through unless you got your property and in compliance and our turny here is to talk about a foreclosure because I'm not an expert on that part but I believe that it's an approach that we can take uh but we definitely need to uh make sure that this property either go in compliance or we're forcing to to pay the files how do you force someone who tells you screw you every time you walk on his property he will he even will will this person even show up to a magistrate hearing I mean will this person even no they W right okay so they're not GNA they are completely thumbing their nose at the rules of the Town completely refusing to comply with anything they're not going to come to a magistrate hearing what what are we gonna do guys we gotta do something what what's the number by by the and you know the attorney can talk about that there's just few options on what we can do uh really okay do we want to hear the options before you guys comment Robert and and Phyllis do we want to hear our options first before your comments or do you have a comment before we hear are options well I just want to comment on the timeline I sat through the magistrate uh hearing this week and it's important to understand timelines associated with some various violations and the the flood plane violation you're relying on an engineer to get things done and basically the magistrate took a stance on a couple of cases that said your fine start today it's up to you to put pressure on your engineer so you know now here's a land owner that's hired an engineer that's at the mercy of that engineer schedule so you know to say three months to say six months you know a building without a permit yeah but we're not talking about that Cas well well we're talking about situations talking about when do you for close and that magistrate said the fine start today now if that engineer drags that feet three months they could be foreclosed on if you come up with three months you know I'm saying I support for closers but I think the timeline is critical as well as What Glenn said we ask me an evaluation of the situation to see if it's cost so each situation phis do do you two need to come before we hear our options or would you like to hear the options first I can make a real short suggestion all right your light was on first phis is yours a short suggestion or do you okay go ahead I think we we need standards in this town too you have a million people on here with FDA issues and that's not on them okay the Town they come to the town and all of a sudden you're saying you moved a pile of dirt you moved Earth you changed your topography now you need an FDA application you have to go get an engineer hold the phone okay who do I hire where do I go what do I do all right do you know how many people I know that have just given obscene money to Engineers to have obscene things done to their property that were that Mr Peters called Overkill all right but the town isn't looking out for them and we have no standards for an FDA these um Engineers are they lock haty Groves King okay Laura perhaps a good place to start with some of these habitual offenders would be 90 days of no response or aggressive behavior towards town where beginning foreclosure day 91 have a nice day anybody else who is trying or stuck in the engineer gear or about apples and oranges here I'm with you we're not talking about the people who are having trouble getting an engineer or who are in FDA and having trouble getting and perhaps need more gu and perhaps need more guidance we're talking about the guy or guys or girls I'm not just naming any names who have been repeatedly say say I mean like literally told this man to pound sand I mean like that's just not okay what are our options is Laura's 90day suggestion at this point now that it's been three years or five years or whatever is the 90-day suggestion a good one I would actually look at the percentage of fines running against the total value of the property I would also look and see if there is an existing mortgage or any other lean holder and um the main reason why we would wish to tell somebody we're going to for close is so that they know we mean business right and I think that it is a good tool um but I would think if you are in consensus that we should proceed with something that we put together some kind of outline the things I just said and maybe you know there's something else I forgot is there anything that you would like to add basically chapter 162 Florida Statutes lays out the steps for us um a property and run fines and um those fines become a lean on the property and it's up to the municipality to foreclose on the lean when appropriate um based on our experience those cases are usually picked carefully they're picked to be strong cases because um as has been pointed out already if we lose that case we're on the hook for attorney's fees um and usually uh those things are staff generated and looked at as in terms of this property is a real problem versus this property is something that's taking longer than it should um right to come into compliance okay so we're gonna handpick a couple of cases staff is going to come up with a procedure and bring it back to us at the next meeting okay great I like that now what do we do let's have some other Alternatives okay for the people who I mean I'm not saying you need out of the rabbit hat right this let's presume that this person who's been so rooted to our code officer and actually belligerent to our code officer and who has been breaking the laws of the town for this long and who continues to do that is mortgaged up to the hilt and it wouldn't be worth our while to for clothes on the property anyhow or effective for clo because this person is clearly Savvy enough to say or persons is Savvy enough to say I don't care go ahead you know what are you GNA take from me you're G take it from the bank um what what are some give give me another out give me two options give me three options what we canot continue one we canot continue to let one or two people have vitually bring it's not fair to their neighbors it's not fair to the law-abiding citizens of the town to let one or two people continuously individually bring rules town it's just not and this is definitely something that we would want to play out in detail but um it's your options are going to be dependent upon the property and what the issues are with the property um so if there's a nuisance on the property that the town has the ability to go in and a bait the town has the ability to go in and Abate that nuisance and then put another lean on the property um if there is an issue with an unsafe building the building official can take additional actions with regard to um condemnation demolition is the end of the line for that um so there there are different um options there's a third option which would be potentially injunctive relief in in court um to have a judge say either do something or stop doing something um but again those things are going to be decided on a caseby casee basis dependent upon what's going on in the property on the property and I want to make clear that at least From staff's perspective it's certainly not I don't believe it's staff's goal to speak specifically about any particular property or any particular case I want to make sure that we're keeping things in terms of generalities so can you bring back to our next meeting a Al alternative to chapter 16 y yeah a little Flo little B diagram for us of what of what our options are so that we can then make a decision but I I'm with Laura I say 90 days for these things that have been running habitually for you know for it's been running for two years so I if there if something's been running fines for two years they're they're definitely way past that 90day window in chapter 162 at that point you what you may want to do is send a warning letter um and then they're going to have to come part of that flowart you're going to create warning letter goes out on this day then step one step two so that we can vote on that and approve it exactly and give him some teeth yep just to close if you put it on writting I'll enforce it okay thank you Mario do we need to receive and file his report it's in the book isn't it I don't know yeah they're all in the book Mar but we still need to no this discussion okay we are going back to the consent agenda we agreed to move the presentations to prior to it so we're done with presentations now correct yay now we get to go back to the consent agenda everybody we just got through four items congratulations okay we now have the consent agenda motion to approve the consent agenda I I want to pull some items okay hold on Phyllis is first what do you want to pull Phyllis um pull number two the schedule Town council meeting dates yes okay all right Robert that's it four four and six we're pulling these for discussion correct yeah okay number four and number six anything else anybody motion approved consent items with the exception of two four and six second is that positive enough for you okay um in the future if you could make instead of talking about excluding try to make the Motions more positive in nation so it would be motion to approve items one three five seven through 12 that would be um more preferable for the clerk okay I will resend my original motion motion approv consent items 1357 through 12 second all in favor I oppose passes five to zero right they they have to make the motion to approve their comment so at that portion thank you okay now we'll do public comment okay thank you we have public comment on the consent agenda have uh public comments with regards to items one through nine that are on the consent from m sish one through nine okay well we pulled two four and six but two four and six were pulled brevity ask your consent if I could just make my comment so I don't have to keep interrupting you to come back up sure go ahead um just very quickly um number two uh your schedule um usually in August you have your budget and there's only one meeting scheduled for August so I would encourage I'm just questioning why there isn't a second meeting for the budget review in August um number for of the Agri Tourism Committee this town needs every precious dollar it has and Florida State Statute and right to farm covered Bonafide EG and even members of your Agri Tourism Committee questioned the value of it even though they served they questioned the value of wasting dollars and ulc could really address many of the issues that were brought forth other one um number nine question is and this is very serious has everyone read the two 2023 Statewide Mutual Aid agreement with the Florida Division of emergency just asking the question number nine make sure you've read that manual number 12 quarterly reports I believe that's part of your second agenda yes yes just encouraging you to get uh year-to dat stats as well as year to year thank you thank you any other public comments the next uh one is for item number two are we going into no we're pulled two four and six so go ahead let since we let her public comment on two let's let another public comment on two let's just get the public comments on the record we are going to have a discussion but our discussion will be after public comments Missi need to do com Virginia didn't Virginia didn't so let's so on two I just had a question about the meetings that only had one a month was wide with this amount of stuff that we need to be done um I looked in July and uh July 16th didn't look like that was a holiday August August 20th would have been the next date so on those dates for the July the August the October the November December meeting I would suggest that maybe you have the two meetings um just like tonight we have 25 items whatever um we run past so to make sure we get all the things that we need done done item number four which I didn't put my thing in but I'll ask um I question AGR tourism we do have a state statute but uh one of the things that stood out was um extending the lighting for two more hours for cleanup that just adds light intrusion into the midnight hours so I would suggest that it's left the same as what it's currently at 11 o' and doesn't go to 1201 okay we have a motion in a second to approve the modified consent agenda do I uh vote please all in favor hi I I all okay who pulled item number two I did okay Phil why are we pulling item number two because I have a conflict schedule conflict okay and I was I don't want to miss meetings so in August I I cannot be at the August 6 meeting so I was hoping we could move it to the 13th and I have no problem with doing a second meeting after that is anybody opposed to moving the August 6th meeting to August 13th so then we do what 13 and 20 or 13 and 27 Council before you talk about the second meeting yeah let's wait until we actually decide to have a second meeting let's just get let's address I I have a reason why I bring that up because item 24 we have laid out what's coming through in all the future agendas and one set of the things that are scheduled to come through um will nearly kill us to make the agendas to get them complete but in addition there's a second report in there of items that are not scheduled on the agenda but they are planning and Zoning items that are coming through we also did not put the budget workshops on here because we knew we would end up having a separate series of budget workshops so we will have to come back to you scheduling budget workshops and planning and zoning meetings likely for your second meeting of the month All Summer Long yes so we don't need to schedule them right now I'm hoping you don't because I want to make sure that they can make it through PCB and come to you and I want to make sure that we have um a a budget Workshop schedule in July and August that fits everybody's schedule okay does anybody have a problem moving the August 6 to the August 13th let's address these things one thing at a time no well we know you don't you're request again everybody I wouldn't move it it's right first Tuesday is when we have our meeting every month The public's used to that okay Laura you have a problem your summer schedule around that problem no I'd rather stick with consistency though hard consistency okay so we're gonna keep the me meeting on August 6 um hopefully from wherever you're at you can phone in and you can I cannot I'm not going to be able to phone in okay well then you'll miss that meeting um I had a question about the September 18th meeting is a Wednesday and I didn't understand that I I actually had that date specific because we can't do it on the 17th we made it the next night the reason I did that is in case the count well no no we've got the county dates but that way it gives us additional time if we need it if not I don't have a problem if you want to put it to the regular meeting on the 24th I'm not under okay so this is a second meeting it's our second budget public hearing we can't have it on our regular night of the 17th because the county has their meeting last year we moved our Tuesday to Wednesday just did the same thing I didn't want to wait until September 24th Wednesday okay thank you that's fine thank you okay now I know why because again we were talking about consistency and staying on Tuesday so um that's a Wednesday all right um oh and I see the 17th see all I had to do was look at the next section and I didn't even make the connection silly me okay so is there anybody else phis that was the only one who wanted to pull it that didn't go we're keeping this calendar as it is everybody else is okay with the rest of item two the calendar yes yes okay to approve item two all in favor I I I'm sorry who second motion okay and Robert you pulled item number four the AGR Tourism Committee is that correct yes so it's want to clarify that this is just housekeeping that committee has already Sunset it and this is just changing the Sunset date from the original April 1 and my question was why was April 30th hand written on page 42 there's two notes handwritten in blue here what's what's up with that goes did we not you you made the motion to April 10th so where it's crossed out and says April 30th it's I billis didn't we go to April 30th because I remember yeah that's what I thought okay we extended to April 30th yeah the original one that's why I thought that's handwritten in there so if that's the case then we don't even need this that would be great solution so that would be great so now what I'm not okay with the AGR Tourism Committee meeting with the members that were on it previously we had several members nobody's meeting it's Sunset that's all this is about this isn't about establishing a new committee ah this was just um housekeeping because they actually finished their last meeting on April 10th and we originally said April 1 but I thought we Chang at April 30th I don't in our Council discussion I don't recall so so we're distrib Distributing the report and then the new AGR Tourism Committee will review it now there is no new AGR tourism there is a new Agro Tourism Committee because I personally am not comfortable with the recommendations of the old AGR Tourism Committee being used as then we need a resolution to create a new agris we should we are supposed to have a resolution to create a new agrotourism Committee in fact we were asked to appoint members to it which I did I did so I'm sorry but we we we that is supposed to be part of this frine yes we have a resolution to appoint the new AGR Tourism Committee in here not not yet we have a list of we have a first reading tonight on okay the uniform procedures for setting up committees okay the question is whether we're going to stand up ulc agrotourism and r g perfect so that's coming in the end so I just wanted to later I pull this just for clarification that alls it is is all we're doing is looking at a report either changing the sun do we do we go ahead and approve this in case April 30th I'm not willing to approve a report that was that what the people who were served on the committee didn't follow the this doesn't approve the report it receives the report rece so you can receive and file the report now I do want to make comment relative to the public comments what agrotourism did is they went through the relative sections of our and when we're talking about code cleanup and I mentioned this maybe to one or two of you um our noise ordinance we know we need to fix it my voice right now in this room is 55 DB that is our daytime um noise limit at the property line our nighttime noise limit is 50 DB in my office the other day no offense mayor you are clocking at 84 I'm sure you know um so we do need to take a look at some of the things that AGR tourism recommended but they recommended them townwide traffic noise um signs and we were looking at all of those things um the the one very specific thing was the additional time to clean up and what they wanted to do was have additional hours of operation for events we can cover that we can cover all these things townwide as opposed to in a separate Agra tourism ordinance as we had originally proposed so receiveing F rece changing the 30th on everything resolution 2024 d22 changes the date from April 10th to the 30th uh 2 to the 10th is originally sunset on the on the 1 I guess so and they did it through the 10th so they could have another meeting yeah so I I guess and this I know is housekeeping but uh I I guess I'll motion to approve the resolution if it's needed if they research that original meeting and find that we extended to the April 30th then I guess the don't even have the right information we just table it then bring it back it's not it's not like it's critical um no it's not critical we sent let item okay we can item four item four I will say we are working on a web page that puts the same information from fire rescue and so on and so forth on our website great okay okay Robert you pulled number six yeah I pulled number six um seeing that there's going to be more committees I want to change my Committee Member on this committee and put them in a different committee I want to put Jackie Clifton on the uh okay but that's back where we do the appointments that's at the end that's no this is a resolution for appointment appointments yeah this is a resolution just to appoint plan six pnz you want to do what want to change Robert Sullivan replace him with Jackie Clifton Robert Sullivan replaced with Jackie Clifton um okay she used to she used to be on ulc before we come by okay um what is your question so when we were talking about people on the commit in compliance um I I think we need to stick to that that they need to be in compliance because I reached out to like 10 people while I was sitting at an open house and they all said yes to be on a committee so I think there's a lot of people that are very willing to serve so I don't think it's such a small it's a different item in the agenda coming up in the future well you're no what Phyllis is saying that before she's suggesting that before she approves this slate for the pnz that there's some person or people that she's thinking are not in compliance and obviously we wouldn't so compliance as we defined it at the last meeting was was several things that weren't done which I'm speaking about with the AGR tourism the first thing was that they have to be a resident of the town and we had several people well one person for sure on AGR tourism and two that were questionable that were not residents of the town so that's why I'm questioning the work of that committee because if we had people appointed that shouldn't have been on there the second thing we said was that after a lot of verbage was flown around the second thing we said was that the person or persons could not be in any legal action with the town we further clarified that to say that and that would be lawsuit code enforcement I'm sure there's other but those are the two that are coming to mind right now right now okay but that we also said that if the town manager determined that the person that that the person let's say was in code enforcement and was making an effort to comply that they could serve so the question that exists is with the exception of Jackie clipon who you haven't had a chance to vet yet were you able to vet all the people that are appointed to this committee and did they all pass the vetting process by virtue of those standards well they did that that's the answer did you have another question well I wanted to bring it back bring what back I wanted to bring it back because I feel there's plenty of people that are in compliance and want to serve and that if you're in Goode enforcement clean it out and then you could serve later let somebody else save me serve me so I that's item 20 in the agenda that's an ordinance that discuss the rules right but being asked to appoint a slate so we can't you want to skip to item 20 and come back we may have to skip to item 20 and come back to item six because we can't we can't answer this question until we answer that question and this is an ordinance requires two readings so you can't go by the rules of item 20 for another meeting right and then not go by so let's put six with off the consent at the end of the agenda so let's put item six after 23 how's that I have a motion to motion to move item six after item 23 second just a point of order order this item was only put on here so that we would have a committee for this month's meeting right that is they are only for one meeting I got it so you can change them okay so we're moving six to 20 after 23 discussion you have is 20 is an ordinance so even if we do first reading can't make any decisions based on item 20 regarding comme so I'd like us should go improve this committee this is the two reading ordinance to create this rule where peoplebody need to get I agree because the building department needs to back all right we're leaving six right here I need motion to approve the committee I'll make a motion as except for with and the motion needs to include subsequent to the Bing of Jackie CLI and I'm sorry Robert but we have to do that because that hasn't happen I'll make a motion to approve resolution 2024 d24 appointing members to the planning and zoning board with the exception of the vetting of Jackie Clifton as a acceptable men thank you um okay did you vote yeah we'll talk about iton yeah yeah I'll support it but the vetting part isn't in our policy yet that's the that's the thing you're trying to create a rule that's not there no sir I disagree with you completely the vetting policy that we talked about was that the person has to be a member of the t a citizen of the Town a resident of the town and that's what I'm asking is that they that they pass the vetting policy as per that we had in place which the last committee did not do than man all right I that's all I'm asking is that we that we get that straight okay onward and upward we need to recess Our Town council meeting now and I think everybody might need a potty break so can we recess for like just like literally five minutes and try to get back to item 13 is everybody okay with that do you need a motion to recess to recess make a motion to recess [Music] sorer have recess and consent and consent I'm getting tired I guess yeah that's what I'm talking about I was right wasn't I you are right right phis how you how did you know that and I know what what did you feel oh cuz my CLS are oh no I was in meetings back to back that's why guys had a my said she's like do you want to come in I was like no sure I mean it's only a witch HT I TR put what's wrong with him I know I know that just BLS me away when young people my sister can't so if it's clamped together don't yeah what do you do the he does the baby you okay this is what you need to do does he have his own money okay nobody gives him money anymore nobody gives him money and then he calculate what he smokes a day and calculate that into what he spends a month and that car he can have at the end of the year no gas because he's vaping gas money correct yes kids didn't notice that nobody smokes that's good you guys are real Troopers I'm trying to send you something via your email and it keeps coming back great I got I got an email from the it oh oh so you passed okay yeah like took a picture of it text it to FR is this legit I passed the test keep my email address I guess now you don't have to sit through another training session oh is that what it is I really got sit through training guessing me no making sure I'm piling correctly okay there a new chocolate out there guys I just made Jeff pull it out if you would to grab a piece before a little caffeine going on Oho awesome news that's great FS that was good news that's really good news oh that's good and you know what I didn't know that prob spots Shadows she didn't use the spot word Shadows is what they call them yeah she said she probably has some too that so that's the one thing I was really while we at least get half of them out of the way this you just Mar we're waiting for you to come up so we get started again we got a lot to do can you pass them this way Laur already sign mayor there's one that's criss cross you need to sign there as well okay who your seat five oh n seat one oh maybe it's alphabetical order Marge we're trying to get some signing out of the way while we're recessed here you can sign those and pass them to Robert they need to shorten my name okay guys two more is that one or two this is two all right are we ready to get back what are we waiting for I'm Francine just walked out of the room so I gotta wait for her to come back in the room back as what is this here as the water the district water Control District huh stop there for the radios yeah I already signed it so okay hang on a second let me do this one and you need me to do this one you didn't have a presentation are we ready that's he does we're we're we're we're getting back to order okay I'm gonna bring us back to order and Fran will come back in okay we're now uh calling to order the defendent water Control District we have a consent agenda item can I have a motion to approve the consent second all in favor I I opposed you're opposed or no okay passes five to zero okay we have our meetings for the Board of Supervisors for the water control district is there any public comment on this item it's item 13 on our agenda okay all right any discussion of these uh four three I'm sorry three proposed meeting dates nope okay can I have a motion to approve motion to approve second favor opposed passes five to zero we're now to adjourn thank you need a motion toour can I have a second second okay all in favor I okay I now bring us back to Recon as the Town Council regular agenda to approve the agenda so moved anybody have any talking about items 18 through 24 at this point need a motion to approve motion to approve second in favor I opposed okay first item of business is item number 18 we approved the agenda Robert okay item number 18 is uh the resolution for our rules of procedure any public comment on this item just had a couple comments ons I talked about at the last time last meeting page two of seven item number 7.3 under public comments um you're alienating a group of people in our town residents who may not be able to make it in person to be at these meetings okay some of them need to send it in in an email to be read I don't think it was anyone's intention to run his coun and alienate or silence a few voices because they have a handicap or they can't drive or they're sick or they can't get out of bed or whatever their issue is um I think it's important if you want to add if you're getting a ton of comments to be read out loud from people that don't live in the town maybe just residents and land owners can send their comments in in writing to be read into the record because sometimes that's the only way that they can communicate at a meeting so I think that needs to be um looked into and you know taken out because you are alienating people um the other one was page three of seven um the items about addressing the council should refrain from advocating um I know we read through this again and maybe I'm misunderstanding it but apparel um if I'm up here wearing something is that telling me I can't wear something because I'm advocating for something so I know some of this and it made sense at the last meeting but when I'm reading it here it screams um know First Amendment violation so I think we need to be careful if we want a day to do it maybe just take one out and do two so there aren't comments specifically made like you know we won the election you didn't or I'm for this person so there's no comment for that but uh to express somebody's you know what they're I think that might be thank you any discussion on you did okay Robert I'm sorry you have a oh I'm so sorry another comment I thought there was just the one Tod McLendon 341d Road um I didn't go through this whole thing but based on your discussion at the last meeting one of the issue one of the things I have an issue with is previous two three or four years ago um it used to be where if a council member wanted to bring something put on the agenda they would have that ability and they'd have to provide backup documents know was discussed the last meeting that if some if a council member want to put something on there they would have to ask for at this meeting and then it would be that's why government takes too long because everything drags it I don't think that's right I think if somebody has is prepared and they have information they want to vote on the agenda I think that council member should be able to put something on there down where their public comments are be the an heting and to be able to address their issues that they want we used to be able to do that when I was on the council you could have up to three items and you could bring it to staff and say I want to vote on this here's the backup documentation staff would put it in there and it would be on the agenda so you know you guys are limited I mean you have you know you're here for three year three years let's say 36 months say you only have one meeting a month you know things take a long time if you and they take a long time already and if a council member has to wait essentially two months to be able to put something on the agenda that's why government takes flip and I would prefer to see where a council member would be able to put something on the agenda excuse me let me just ask you to clarify so what you're saying is that they can go to the town manager or a staff member in the before the agenda is prepared the week before the meeting and say I'd like this item on the agenda and here's the backup for it corre and and it would specify at the end of the meeting you know there' be five places for each council member you know if they wanted to have something on the agenda for them and they would be able to put it on there like I said it's not right that they would have to wait essentially almost they could wait up to two months to have something in the agenda worked well before um and we limited it to three because we had a council member at the time that would put on 10 things right and very often there was no backup and the town manager would say sorry you didn't Bry any backup it's not going on there so I mean and I think the backup had to be there let's say the Monday morning before the Wednesday that it was that the agenda is do here's the information here's what I want to put on the agenda I want to vote on it on the agenda because very often I seen in the past where there's something on the agenda and the coun five council members would get up here and I knew full well where it came from which council member who put this on here why why is this on here and everybody would look at staff like the staff was a bad guy and it was because one council member was sliding something in there but this way you own it you put it on the agenda it's under my name this is what I want to do and you own it and you don't try to play this game well this was staff might have done this they're the bad guy I don't know who did this no you own it you put it your you know it's got the council member's name on there if there's what they want thank you for clarifying okay uh Robert was first yeah I know we discussed this on page uh 457 regarding the apparel and controlling what people we and is our attorney there Glen yes you were here did you you feel that this is not violating somebody's right to wear what they want well this is limited just to people running for Council Office because we had a discussion is Council council chambers going to be a campaign free zone or not so if it's a campaign free zone and and you're not you're not saying you can't wear a shirt for president or a congressional person it's only advocating the election of a candidate for public Office of the town so that's you don't you can go either way if you want to have that restriction you're imposing really a restriction on your your own supporters or people who are opposed um but you can that's fair to go there if you're going to be campaign free Town Hall in terms of just your elections yeah I remember that if I remember correctly robt what we said was that it was a campaign free zone for our elections this specifically refers to our elections if you want to wear a Biden shirt or a trump shirt or a whatever else shirt that's not the issue it's just you can't wear anything advocating a certain candidate well then we have to change the wording I think I think the right now I could you know you I couldn't wear a shirt that says I agree I love the lgla you know I'm promoting a group right I I I agree I think the re the resident should wear with they want I don't think we should dictate to the residents what they could wear in the chambers and if they support somebody so what you know obviously you know if if you know the election went different then this shirt thing wouldn't be an issue so well that I don't think that's necessarily true it was it was an effort for us to keep Town Hall as a campaign free zone which it always has been you can't distribute campaign materials inside of town hall somebody can stand out in the parking lot and do it but they can't be inside of town hole right but they could wear a shirt you can't tell them that's freedom of speech it's Distributing campaign materials it's not Distributing you're wearing a shirt well we'll have no I don't agree is there some rule campaign free zones is there some wording in that there is elsewhere in our yeah that that town hall is or should we just use the word should attempt to reframe soften it up I mean we just put you know at the first end each person addressing the council should attempt to refin from doing that stuff I I don't know you know I don't know the language of the campaign free zone is that a state thing make this no it's it's that's us Glenn can you make this more consistent with our campaign the the other section in the 25 whatever it is the campaign free zone section can you make this language more consistent with that can go back and look at that um and I'm hearing two different things I'm hearing you want to be a campaign free zone when it comes to town election a couple Council people say but not the residents almost as if you're saying you guys can't wear it but residents can so what where's the consensus on that we I agree with that we can't Advocate but I think the residents should be able to do what they want okay fellis you've had your comment Marge well I remember when U Big Dog Ranch was uh looking forward to coming uh into our town and they filled our room with people with shirts support Big Dog Ranch I mean the room was full of people like that so I mean that that would be allowed no that's not campaigning for Council but we're talking about shirts right that would be allowed all right so your lights off your lights off Laura I'm sorry um I like the idea of the campaign free zone um however it can be worded to say that is fine and I'm thinking of an example let's say there's three people sitting in the audience that say I support Joe Brown for seat two or three whatever it is and then somebody else is like oh my God that's my neighbor I like my neighbor but I'm going to go up and make a public comment and if I make this public comment maybe there's going to be Strife between me and my neighbor you know now having said all that we're catering to toddlers it you know if you want to wear a shirt fine you know if it offends you don't look I I just I I we're standing in soup up to our knees on this so I okay so maybe we just put language in here is that that says something about you know we request that the that it be kept a campaign free zone and then let people do whatever the heck they want to do because that's where we're at that sounds like the consensus is that pretty much what everybody's saying yes well do we just add the words attempt to you know gr a requesting I think it's the demand violating somebody's okay requested we request that council chambers it's something to to be more consistent with the campaign free zone language okay that and what about the public comments um right that's I'm hearing so you don't want people to make public comments supporting or opposing Mary or Joe but you don't want them you don't want to tell them what kind of clothes they can wear is that what I'm getting we're saying that's what we're saying okay I I'll reward this and then what about allowing we we have made a ruling previously not to allow public comments to be read into the record because that we were receiving an abundance of inflammator I mean let's look at the history of it we were receiving an abundance of very inflammatory public comments that were being sent in by email that were in fact political in nature um and were in fact um aimed at a particular candidate so maybe we read them into the record and put some language in here about saying unless they're deemed inflammat the town attorney as inflammatory or the or whoever whoever would deem it the town manager or Council or what whatever or the mayor I don't care dump it on me for now and whoever gets my position after me unless they're deemed inflammatory that that's creating a little bit of a slippery slope who's determining um you know it's much better to have a black and white rule when it comes to comments if you're going to allow the comment you're going to allow it no differently than if someone was there in front of you making a comment and if they went offline you would stop them now if you have a public comment that's com that comment right and you could do that if someone has a public comment and you're reading into the record and it's something that you would stop the person from say wait you're just crossed the line you could do the same thing obviously you're not going to get any verbal push back because the person is um let me ask this question because they have another town that what they do is they post the comments on their website but they don't read them so the public can see them you see them obviously they're in they're in your backup and maybe that's one way to do it you you put it as part of the agenda without having to read them but that's this really discretionary inflammatory nature of some of them you are you suggesting that we Post online inflammatory public comments no all signed up to be public officials you got to take the heat I so you want that restriction to just come out and go back to the way it has been just that they want to submit a well I mean it it is addressed in item 7.5 that anybody making impertinent obscene personally insulting defamatory and slanderous marks so again I guess we can judge the what we can take this out and judge the ones that get sent in on an individual basis certainly the one we received tonight is very innocuous and is like thank you for Paving our road you know what I mean it's like it's it's it's it certainly is not it's something that is easily and then just like happened in this last situation Council voted not to read that one into the record because it was inflammatory so okay so the same standard for written comments as verbal comments right so so take 7.3 taking that last thing out say we will read them into the record and we them into the record at the beginning of the night so I'll bring this back for the next meeting with those changes I think I think that's what I sure I'd like to move it along striking we're striking the underlined part at the end of 7.3 I think we're striking all of 7.6 correct referencing the yes and changing 7. six to reference campaign free zone in some way and I have a question on 10 point one and then Robert has a question on 10.1 folks okay go ahead 10.1 10.1 vacancies on the Town Council that paragraph applies to Town Council that paragraph doesn't apply to boards or committees because boards or committees we submit Representatives if you read that paragraph it talks about submitting your resume and all the stuff to the town clerk and the clerk will determine whether or not the person's qualified elector of the town to submit that to the Town Council but it doesn't say anywhere in there about council members appointing these vacancies but that's in our Charter I think it sounds like what they'll determine but the town clerk's determining whether the person who has submitted their resume is is qualified vetted it has been vetted that's the vetting process that I talked about before whether they're a qualified person yeah we don't post it on the agenda on the website these are council members appointees you know so counil a different animal than a vacancy on a committee correct and that this paragraph is trying to in my opinion it's lumping them all together so you want to remove Town Council no no this does apply to Town Council but no we're in here where it talks about boards or committees does it talk about council members submitting the names how about how about this um on the second sentence where it says all interested persons add the words all interested persons to serve on a committee shall submit that way it's clear it's only dealing with the committee not the council okay well it's the other way around all interested persons for councel don't you don't submit an application to be you you you qualify and you run for office no this is for vacancies yeah this is a vacancy yeah but that's different the council process for vacancies is they get appointed by the other council members or else you have a special election it it doesn't follow this policy at all well on the vacancies they do they have to submit their application and then the clerk gives Council a list the names of everybody that's qualified then Council votes by ballot to the clerk to fill that vacy sure isn't the way it was done when I was on remember that it sure isn't done that's what that's what it says well that's not the way it was done when I was appointed three or four people's names were tossed around and the council voted and and appointed me that's how it was done 10.2 I I'm reading it I'm just telling you that is not the way it was done well if we want it to be different this is where we do it that's I'm just just reading this and and trying to understand how it actually applies to us it seems to be 10.1 does seem to be doesn't apply to us at all the way it's written the only part of 10.1 that really seems to apply to you is that if there's a vacancy it shall be announced on the agenda and on the website and maybe we just take all that language out and put it in 10.2 where you're talking about the fill of vacancy on the Town Council maybe then you say to fill you know we'll change that paragraph say 10.2 is dealing with vacancies on the Town Council shall be announced on the Town Council agender on s website to fill the vacancy so 10.2 is all councel 10.1 is all committee that sounds like a good idea that makes sense that sounds like a great idea somewhere in there it's the counc M submits the committee name and are we removing the vote by the ballot um that's still done ballot that's part of two because the yeah it was it was done as a majority rule thing in the past I I mean I'm doesn't mean we have to do it the same way but that is the way it was done in the past the way it was done in the past is names were proposed and there was a vote taken I like that let's it's simple you write your I mean it's just simple yeah you write your name you hand it the clerk she tells you the results it's a tie okay I got two ties right I think it it takes the drama out of it it's just a piece of paper the clerk reads makes sense to do you yeah that's fine you has something to say um I was just gonna say I I think he should probably uh when Glenn is rewriting this he needs to take a look at um this in relation to boards and committees um versus your ordinance on advisory boards in section 2.83 and 2.84 which talks about the appointment process and terms of appointment um you know and he should take a look at that and make sure that they're consistent and also a look and see whether or not if you have an ordinance on the subject you need a resolution so this needs to come back to the next's coming back at the next meeting basically a lot of language redone right well it can still probably come back as a second reading because the intent is not going to substantially change is that right this is just a resolution okay this is a resolution this this a resolution I was gonna say I'm looking at just bring it back on consent next time mam sure Glen when there's a conflict between this resolution and the next ordinance the ordinance overes resolution yes yes but to Jeff's point we should make sure there's no conflict we should try to make some consist a lot of stuff that's repeated it is the words aren't exactly the same it's different right okay thank you man check it for consistency Phyllis do you have anything else on this yes 17.2 17.2 council members May attend and speak at meetings of outside board and committees if speaking at if speaking at such commit uh meetings the council member speaks for Town Council and must accurately represent the position of the town and not that of the individual council member so only if this person is sent by the council to that meeting should they be speaking for the town I think that's correct and only if the person represents himself so if if Marge wants to go to an i as a citizen of a neighboring community and express her opinion which may be different from something the council's opinion is she has a right to do that but if Marge is sent as the vice mayor to I to present a position of the town she has to present the position of the town but if Marge goes to an I meeting and presents the position of the town without the Town Council even knowing about that that would be unethical exactly yeah so we need that to be a little more understood because this has happened many times so I think Phyllis is what is asking if you could somehow in this last item make a stronger distinction between by direction of council yeah perhaps just by adding the words that they could can only speak and present the position of the Town by direction of council that's probably the language that needs to be added and everybody agree sounds good to me make a comment or three of us so are you done yes okay thank I go and speak in front of roots which I've done a lot and I'm there's wearing this shirt like today the groundbreaking the elementary school right I'm there I was the only one from the town there yeah I never received an invitation isn't that where yeah neither did I I forwarded it to everyone I couldn't go so anyhow when I get up there and speak I'm talking about the town our town you know and all the great things about our town and here's the difference when I went to I when they were looking to become a city council sent me to I to represent Council on the boundaries so that was a specific Council stance correct that said okay go there represent us and you know talk about the boundaries so I just want to make this clear that when you're out there talking at meetings you're just talking about the town unless there's a specific direction or item I think they like the TPA when I spoke in front of the T PA it was to remove okobe from The Five-Year Plan and that was Council didn't want okobe on the fiveyear plan so no nobody sent you to do that Robert that's why I'm talking about this don't interrupt someone who's speaking you'll have a turn so I go all over the place and talk about this Talent all the time if a specific item you know that they're voting on like TPA or like I ID and that's where this applies I just want to make it clear that okay now now do you have something you need to say exactly his attitude is exactly why we need to say by direction of council and then there needs to be a recourse if someone one of us goes and speaks for the town misspeaks for the town without the council then there needs to be some kind of some kind of uh you know it's not something I don't know if Reco is the right word sorry it's not something that I want to do to weigh in on this but I've had this conversation with a number of council people and I've worked in other cities before and generally the way that it works is once the council has a position that they've come to consensus on that is what everybody is supposed to represent so if we decide we're all in on um you know unpaved even if you disagree with unpaved that so that's your stance if you identify yourself as a council member that's what I was saying that's if you identify yourself as Laura danowski resident of lockah hatche groves and she doesn't understand why 155 has to be paved that's her personal opinion and it gets very confusing so the point is if you go to represent the Council on a voting matter that's by appointment a voting matter by another me another entity or something like that but if you're out there talking generally you have to be very careful um because people don't understand you as a resident versus you as a council person if once you represent yourself as a council person correct yes correct I agree so can you work on some language Glenn you understand what I'm saying Glenn right for you to be a personal resident once you're council member and what if you're wearing the shirt of the town it's hard when you're not representing the town yeah this is always so difficult because we're always representing the town right when when whether you're wearing the shirt or not people generally know who you are right if if they don't know who you are you're probably not speaking at at the event you're probably there League of cities or TPA or elementary school and they know who you are and there's all there's no real good solution one solution I've heard is when you get up to speak you say I'm here on my own behalf not the Town Council realistically are you really going to say that or you going to say I'm here I'm for the Town Council no most of the time you're just going to get up and talk right you're just going to say as council member sh just said you know this is a great town we all it love it and it's a general statement if it's specific you're there on behalf of the Town Council because you're appointed to the TPA or appointed to some committee that's a different story so are you really G to be able to regulate each other every time you're out in public at any public event that's this is a conundrum and I really don't know how you police this well other people do Glenn they send you videos okay well if you could try to find some language about the ethics of speaking a position other than the state of position of the town when representing yourself as a town member um yes when you're represent when you're include you know asking for money of businesses within town when you're serving on Council and things like that I don't know maybe we need to go into the whole ethics code with this okay I know but whatever I I'll leave it up to your discretion to make it as brief Point as you can this is coming back yes this is coming back okay um did we get a consensus on that council members uh not speak at Town Advisory board meetings we did we decided that they should not speak that was agreed that was agreed on and voted on okay so we're on 18 is mar did you agree with that I agree okay cool 18 is coming back 19 is coming back now too no 19 we're starting okay 19 19's probably coming back let's face it okay let's look at 19 uh mayor would you like me to read the title block I would love for you to read the title for me okay ordinance number 20243 ordinance of the Town Council the town of wa gr Florida amending chapter 2 Administration Article 2 Town Council to reorganize its Provisions to provide for adoption by resolution of supplemental rules of procedure the quum and order for meetings of the Town Council and town boards and to replace references to Citizen requests with references to public comments providing for conflict severability codification and an effective date okay did there any public comment on this yes ma'am okay M stage is gone that's it okay any discussion phis um yeah want to make a motion to bring them back okay well we're doing discussion first okay nope I want all the Committees back that's my discussion okay Robert discussion yeah what um page well I guess the description talks about alternates but we don't have ultimates but that's not in the ordinance that was just on page 462 we're talked about that but since it's not in the ordinance it doesn't matter page 4 69 okay on K about resolutions supplemental the rules of procedure I would just I know pzb is by ordinance everything else is by resolution so I just want to make sure that doesn't get muddied and make sure that I'm understanding that correct is that is that correct pzb appointments by ordinance and all other committees by resolution Vine or Glenn do you want to answer that question I'm afraid to answer anything right now and it just sticks in my mind from the past no it's in the next item um and it actually speaks to it so I'm going to read it right now too go ahead Francine I can wait ready oh you want to wait until the next item then because it is in the next item it's in the next item how the appointments are made this is just kind of approving the rules of procedure and stuff like that so can I have a motion to oh I'm sorry I didn't see your light yeah I just it on I didn't see you Laura you're I got you next sorry all right on page 466 C on the top up there uh the town clerk shall prepare the agenda wouldn't that be set by the members of the committee and approved by the clerk no they said no they still have to have an agenda eventually yeah but I mean as they're getting started maybe they need an agenda but then the the agenda the faac agenda is always provided by the town okay and if we want to add something to it or to discuss something else we do so but that way they can get all the proper backup in there and everything all right Advisory board meetings I thought we were in on no we're in Town Council meetings it's a it's a mix map a mish mash a mish mash okay anybody else Laura you had your light on okay it which side of the mish mash are we on right now Town Council or depends on what page you're on what page would you like to well it's and if I missed it in this dialogue I I I apologize um my concern is how do we direct the topic matters of the Committees meaning the five of us sit up here and say peanut butter okay so then staff prepares an agenda that's kind of like well they talked about peanut butter but really we think you should pursue jelly and then when whatever finding comes back we're all looking at each other like we didn't this isn't what we asked for how should that direction be given am I making sense well yeah I mean I I get your point but I I also I think it's a it's a slippery slope because I think the reason that we I believe strongly in the Committees and the citizen committees because you know I don't think any one of us can be an expert or even has the time most of us have jobs and everything to become very well versed and I very much appreciate people who are willing to serve on the Committees and go that extra mile and do that hours that we do for this for a specific thing so I think that they have to have some um I think that they need to be directed from us to look into issues but if we direct them to look into peanut butter okay and in looking at peanut butter they decide that jelly is what really needs to be considered I think that they need to have the freedom to look into jelly I I I think that that not everything that is happens on a committee should be directed from Council I think that the Committees themselves should have the right to say this is something that Council missed or that's something that would really help Council to make this decision and as long as they agree by as a committee to look into it that they should have the freedom to look into it I I totally agree with that what I'm trying to avoid is and I'm I'm just drawing a blank on a good example um peanut butter and jelly worked is is the breakdown if Council says we really need the ulc to look at X and somehow It Gets Lost in Translation that they spend three weeks of looking at something else not even relevant that's has that ever happened before well like if we said look at the sign code then they have to stay in the sign code they can't switch and start looking at tree mitigation yeah right I mean I think that's no they can if they determine that tree mitigation has a relevance to the sign code I mean then they could I mean that has somehow has some relationship and I know that's probably a bad example but if they're looking into the sign code and they decide that tree mitigation it or Shrubbery foliage clearing is relevant to the sign code then they should have the freedom to look into that as well I think they should just not get sideways and and the town manager I think did a good job with the Agri Tourism Committee of expressing to them you know council's Direction so I I think that's up to us I think that's up to staff to keep them on track of what our directives are so our and I think they do our town staff or hired contractors Our Town staff oh somebody from our town staff is always at the meeting right one person you know the conversation is always right on point right now the next item is going to tell you that staff for the PCB is our contracted planner which is to your point and second of all thank you very much for the agrotourism we had to keep the guard rails up but council did that because Council put in there um uh originating resolution what the scope was so you know um that scope came from Council all we all I did all our attorneys did we just kept everybody on the road so I'm heing we need to be very specific in our Direction you should be specific as we can be that's just that's just a directive to us okay so looking at item number 19 can we get something okay no Phyllis has something else to say go oh I'm okay can we make a motion to approve the first reading of this ordinance I'm making a motion to approve 2024-the uniform requirements to town advisory boards on first reading second all in favor I I oppose motion passes five to zero we've been unanimous all now we about page 472 where you talk about various committees now let's look at 472 it's under the same section but it's its own animal and I have a little tab on it for that reason um so are we approving these board members now Francine is that why no we're talking about whether we're standing up all the Committees because these are the appointments we've had we did vet um everybody on here y okay except for Robert's replacement mran yeah okay and may I and do any of the people that need that have vacancies do they need help finding people for those or they just didn't have time like Laura you have a vacancy for ulc Robert looks like you have three vac vacancies did you need some help in finding people or you just didn't have enough time or we were standing up ulc till I got the agenda so so you'll find your ulc person okay and I did you need help finding an additional three I just same thing um need to understand the scope before I point some way reac or they're going about roads Trails is it going to be an equestrian focus a road Focus there's multiple people I could put on there but I want somebody that fits our scope and that's leads me into I think we need to Define these Scopes tonight because she's going to come back with the resolution at the next meeting that creates the committee so I understand creating standing committees like ril ulc but do we want to how do we you know that's just a standing committee I guess based on on the previous committees but what point do we put the scope in scope is what we Define it as when we give them tasks to do okay but like the Agri tourism I think should be an ad hoc committee I don't think it wasn't a standing committee it's an ad hoc yeah are we and if we're going to do that again then we have to you know time limit it Define the so those are the things that you know if we can give Francine Direction on that for that committee tonight and then the other four committees just get appointed people and then we I guess at the end of next meeting when we when we discuss the resolution and we can say okay let's have them start with you know code number X that focus on why you know we could just kind of give that consensus well I mean I think wec's jumping right into signs I'll second that you know my point with I guarantee you that I didn't know the scope of Rec Tech you know if it's you know townwide trail system focus on it identify it you know then I want to kind of well I think what we stand them next week I mean that would be my vote that would that would definitely be my vote is that we need to get these trails open I mean you know we're talking about connectivity we need get anybody else on that that'll help me focus on who to put on the committee right well that that would be what I would want to I want to put a road person on there when they're gonna talk about Trails it's mostly Trails all right thank you all right phis so I I agree um I think we actually have railroad people now taking care of our roads so I think trails and canals you know Trails would and green space Greenways is a good direction to go and I think you guys would be surprised at I would like to submit a list of folks that I reached out to they are not personal friends of mine actually I think you may be surprised well you could hate everybody but um you'd be surprised as some of the people that said they would serve and I think you'd be surprised enough to put them on your committees so um maybe we want to change the name of red tag to Trails and Greenways because that's really where where we want the focus of that committee to be is that something we want to consider and I like that as well and I feel that three of at least three well four of the members have enough people here to get the commit committees up and running so I don't want to stall these committees anymore why not why not stall them anymore I said we're not stalling them anymore we're moving forward okay I thought that we were going to delay because some of the seats were not taken coming back next time and these people have agreed to have appointments my last question on the Agri tourism speaking of appointments is what's going to be the requirements previous requirements were that you had to be involved in Agri tourism and either own land in the town or live in the town so you could lease you could rent the land and and live there so my appoin he doesn't live in the town but he owned an AGR tourism property you have to be a resident to be on any of our committees that's what we specifically said now this is an ad hoc committee we can create whatever rules we want for this committee I vote for you have to be a resident of the town I agree I vote for you have to own land because I think we have a lot of people that are involved we have a consensus but maybe you aren't resident so all right well we need to take a vote anybody else have anything they want to debate about that my candidate um owns 15 Acres 20 with the Mother-in-law uh but does not live in the town right and we didn't know that yeah I didn't know that but I don't think that's a bad thing these are people involved in Agri tourism that's what we want like not really all of them I don't think um I I think we should have one person on the committee that maybe is a lay person that is not involved in AGR tourism that's why put somebody on to whole help reel everybody in when they get overzealous consens arer do you want to allow people don't live in the town but either own or us run the AG tourism property I I think um people that own land have a vested interest as well as a person who lives here you know maybe not not to the full degree you know um but uh I I I'm in favor of uh letting an owner right La you're the resident or land owner well we haven't voted yet we're just so the the decision is that the the choice is do they have to be a just a resident who could be a non-land owner resident could be just a renter right so they do they just have to be and how much interest do they have in the town if they are just renters and don't even own the property like what do they care but they're voters I'm just but they're voters so the distinction is and we've had this fight before phis so the distinction is do they have to be just residence period end of story that's the status if you're or hang on a second let me clarify what the distinction is and then we could have more debate if you want to and then we'll vote what we're debating about is must they be just a resident or can they be a resident and or landowner that's the distinction that we are are we speaking specifically for a tourism and then the next distinction is are we speaking just specifically for this ad hoc committee or are we going to go back and change it so speaking specifically for this ad hoc committee abely okay specifically for this committee I agree that they that you should allow a land owner who is making a living doing some kind of bonified agricultural Endeavor and she said making a living and I agree with her and only one land owner you mean a husband and wife couldn't be a husband and wife should never be on the same commitment I don't mean never have happened I I thought I thought she meant that if the hus no I meant one land owner if you're going to allow a non voter to vote on issues in our town then I'm saying limit think whether there're a voter or not is is a distinction for this particular committee I really do feel pretty strongly that if if they're making their living again like you said they have to be making their living there can't be somebody who owns the agricultural land but makes their living you know running an AC shop running an AC shop in a neighboring town or whatever um but they have to actually make their living from their Bonafide act yes and I think there can be more than one on that committee as long as they demonstrate that they make their living from it I agree okay and then that's going to be something you guys are going to have to vet well you already just did it yeah that's you know I've got my retirement my Social Security and then I come out here and do Agri tourism so how do I make my living you know how are you gonna police that it's has a purpose right it has a specific purpose no I think it has to be no I I don't agree with business it needs to be an open business it's going to be time limited it's an adog car out their function and they're going to dissolve I'm not buying that somebody that just says their property agor it has to be a functioning going concern no no I agree they have to be involved in somebody just saying oh I've got AGR tourism when you talk about earning a living you know talking finances no like the butterfly Gard um the property has to generate Revenue I agree there you go has to generate the property has to generate Revenue agricultural Revenue okay the state of Florida says oh yeah I just want to be clear so everybody understands the State of Florida says this if you have a Bonafide a exemption then you by your declaration can be AGR tourism we can't make anybody demonstrate to us that they are AGR tourism so I have asked the question no no this is a big part of the conversation with the State of Florida because we did work with them hand inand so I just want you all to be aware of that it will be difficult for staff to be able to vet that because if somebody declares that they're AGR tourism and they have Bonafide egg property that they're on it's hard for us to tell them that they're not a recent example they didn't have the Bonafide a so it was an AGR tourism but if they said look I'm Bonafide egg and this is my butterfly garden we couldn't say it was an AGR tourism and I certainly can't check on Revenue generation that's my point I'm trying to say because if you're having staff f it I just don't know how we would be able to so we're going down the road of making something more stringent than our governing body above us correct so the easy way is to remove the land owner no except everybody else wants to have the landowner except for you so well I thought you were no I've been had had this argument before the election with you that I thought land owners should be able to serve on all committees to be honest with you I think that we represent the citizens of the Groves but that's just my personal opinion I'm going with the vote of everybody else but I think L I think that if you own land in this town you have an interest in the function and the operation of this town and I think you should be able to serve on on committees and certainly on this ad hoc committee this just my personal opinion it's got to go up for a vote but can we bring this in for a landing just for the a for the let's do it just for this committee all right so the pro who wants to make a motion that people a motion that the committee consist of that the that the ad hoc Tourism Committee consists of residents Andor land owners that are that have uh Land bonified Act I'm not sure which term you want to use are we going to put one lay person on that doesn't all in favor I I I opposed okay passes five to zero next question is one down what does this committee do and how long is it gonna so the the reason that I made such a push to have this committee reconvene is because there was some questions about when it was convened before about some issues and so I I personally felt that it should at least have one more meeting to look over these with freshly fresh eyes to look over these recommendations hone some of the things and I think we have some direction that we'd like to give them based on like they they're s the first committee sending us their recommendations we need to review that and give the new K committee some directions so they can come up with a policy so they're still looking at offside impacts they looking at the ordinance as a whole ordinance as a whole is that what I think don't you don't I thought they were looking at signs because they wanted the the they gotta look at signs too they got to look at impact I think they have to look at everything again again with a new set of eyes they may say hey just keep it exactly the same as our recommendation but they may say yeah no I don't like this staying up until 11 o'clock to so she do the resolution for the next meeting so do we appoint them for six mon visit or well I do want to just say the composition as it currently stands is likely that there's only one different person than the original committee um so I think we need to do something very specific since they're the same generally speaking you see my point or not I do yeah yeah three people reviewing the same yeah I'm guessing that when we get your appointment um council member sure that would make the difference if there's a fresh look or here's a question I have can you be a member of this ad hoc committee and be a member of a standing committee yes sure yes you can um so yeah I think it matters um if we have the same people or we have different are we standing this committee right now now no no but she's got to write the resolution the terms of the committee and the scope I think six months is sufficient to get everything done that needs to get done do what do you think you need to restand it or no to for them to review what's been done and finish any other tasks so sorry to be sick right and we may s said it before then but I'm just saying at the outset um too long I think we should get the sign sign issue resolved or in motion through ulc because Francine if I'm wrong signage was a very big giantree so maybe just let a tourism sit for a little bit till we get our a foothold on signage well other things they can go over they've got a review what's already been done I they've got other things people try to find new members just to get a different I could change my member but but they're not going to be but the goal is different eyes from different angles that's what we want everybody looking at it from different angles to come together as a commit right exactly so I'm gnao somebody different why don't we have the ulc look at what they did because I would like focus on signs they've got plenty to do they don't need they don't need that they don't need that right now all right so can we approve this ordinance sure this is uh we're on item number 20 there's one one item in here that I Think You're Gonna Want to take out isn't it what is it hold on a minute we moved on to 20 right yeah it's 1018 before we move on would you like me to read the title block I need you to read the title block and then I need you to call for public comments and then then we can move on now you're responsible now you're responsible for the public it's not this one counil thetic advisory boards to provide applicability composition Forum eligibility qualifications equipment terms removal vacancies officers compensation and procedures regarding Town advisory organization and rision chapter 34 Planning and Development to ensure compliance with new town Advisory Board article and for other purposes providing for conflict severability thank you any public comment yes okay P it about the Planning and Zoning Board and I said it at the last meeting um number c Town's planner shall advise and assist the board and all of its presentations hearings and deliberations like to make sure that the town planner is an independent person working for the town and is not representing dual dually representing developers as well and developers interests because often times the planner is guiding the board or the committee and explaining things and if they are duly representing or have an interest or get paid by the developers which is what my understanding was how do you think that they would guide or steer the committee so it needs to be very very very important that whatever planner is is not representing the developer because I have caught our a planner we'll say a planner coaching the developers prior to the planning and zoning committee how to frame questions because I happen to have my camera rolling at the time and I've caught them steering the council with their paperwork to in which was more Pro development so I would make sure that is reiterated that the town planner is independent and works for the town hey do we have a motion we have I'll make a motion to approve ordinance 22406 adopting chapter 2 Administration Town advisory boards on first reading second discussion Madam chair yeah we have more discussion we just had discussion you want to have more go ahead well on page 482 thank you item C that was when we put the LC under pzb so I think that needs to be taken out if thec is not going to be under pzb correct so you want me to amend my motion we agreed 42 item C delete it deleted okay I'm gonna amend my motion adding deleting item C deleting the ver the verbiage on item c section 34- 278 approve um I'm sorry second no I was gonna say in uh on page 475 um section 282 um ba um I think you probably want uh Mr tvia to um clarify be a resident of the town of LOE Groves based on the um discussion that you just had with respect yes but they are for all boards other than ad hoc so you think he needs to clarify we we just said the vote that we just took was that they could be just a landowner for only for this at this particular ad hoc commit right this is addressing all advisory boards all standing boards but you think that that should be clarified in there yes okay did you hear that Glenn yeah and and I'm assuming you want a separate resolution for next meeting on the a tourism board with the requirements you just talked about and Jeff you just want a reference here subject to that soon to come resolution right yeah I think that's I think that's what you would do is just uh say you know you would have to be a resident of the town of loat grow unless otherwise right you know indicated in the resolution so am I adding that to my motion yes that verbage I would yes but you can you can just adopt what we just talked about without having to Valerie did you get that adopt what we just talked about and I agree can we take a vote now yes all in favor I I oppose hey passes okay guys it's 10:24 we just finished number item 20 we still have 21 22 23 24 all the the staff reports all the council member comments there is no way that we are gonna get that done I'll make a motion to extend the meeting second okay for a half an hour that's we can only do it a half an hour at a time yeah I understand but we're not going to get it done in a half an hour well then 11 we extend it again yeah get it done do at 30 minutes at a time I understand I'm proposing that we come back tomorrow night at six o'clock because I gotta tell you there's no way we're gonna get through this and this is another two or three hours um I am going to propose that we hear the Sheriff's Office since he's been patiently sitting back there that we do the that ordinance um next yeah and that we perhaps come back at six o'clock and do another two hours to finish the rest of it which is how long I think it's going to make the town manager has a lengthy report okay I'm I'm good with that there's no way that we're finishing this I'm sorry the C the CIP o ordinance 2402 20 2402 um has been advertised for public hearing tonight so people have hung around for it it's probably worth doing it and you've heard it before and I plan on being mercifully short on the presentation 22 and 24 we're g to go for another half hour but I'm sorry to add to that um ordinance number 20 24-4 was also publicly advertised um in the so we have to go through all the public hearings let just crank so let's just keep going for a little bit but I mean there comes a point where it's just ridiculous because none of us is thinking are functioning properly so I I I know I'm close to that quite okay let's look at item number 21 okay item number 21 is an ordinance that was before Council once before in 2019 and the reason that it is here is because we plan to put the sheriff's contract renewal on the June 4th agenda and so if there was um a desire to make sure that we had a backup plan then the second reading of this ordinance would be at the same time as the sheriff's contract coming onto the agenda the sheriff's contract has the sheriff's office has notified us of a 4% increase in our contract um and there we have Captain Turner here and additionally the sheriff would like to meet or the um Sheriff's Office would like to meet with each one of you and talk about um their progress and informational meeting on why the increase in the contract and um this is just a preparatory item bringing us to contract renewal and I will set those meetings up if you are so inclined between now and um the June 4th meeting and also captain Turner if you'd like to um say anything I would oh I understand I understand that I just wanted to make sure that we had okay an understanding why it's here for me thank you told you an ordinance of the Town Council of the Town ofah Florida providing that in the event there is no contract or law enforcement services in effect between the town and count Sheriff's Office or an joining municipality the law enforcement services in the law enforcement services in the town will be the standard law enforcement Services provided by the PBSO providing for cability providing for conflict providing for cation thank you have thank you I'm ready no no public comment on this okay uh Council discussion Phyllis um I think the sheriff should come here and tell the town people about what he does for us I don't want to have a private meeting with him okay thank you Robert um I think section two I think we need to add a sentence it says without an agreement with the town I think it should say and augmented Services by certified Law Enforcement Officers to maintain existing level of service nope which includes 247 Road Patrol and speed limit enforcement nope no I'm I'm not in agreement with that this is to protect the town in the event that we can't come to an agreement it is not to complicate matters further this is just very simply to protect the town that's all it is this is not this does not say we don't have a contract for the sheriff doesn't say that we're not going to negotiate in good faith and it doesn't going to say say that we're not going to it says in the event that if we do not have a contract with them that we revert back to County and I'm not willing to have it gummed up with extra verbiage that is is intended to complicate matters no it's it's intended to continue the services the residents are used to if we didn't have a contract it's going to be Emergency Services only we won't have speed control on okobi that's not true opinion we won't have a officer in town 247 that's not true we're taxpaying citizens and the and we we pay the say $75 that people in other unincorporated areas pay and we entitled to the same Services what you're saying isn't true all right and you don't know what we're going to be able to negotiate and you don't know what we're going to negotiate so for you to speculate if that is disingenuous at best you're speculating on something that that that you don't know what's going to happen I'm reading what the word say this has nothing to do with the renewal of the sheriff's contract it has to do with protecting the town should the contract not be renewed or for for whatever reason whether Sheriff Bradshaw walks away like he did a couple of years ago and says he doesn't want to negotiate with us whether we simply can't afford the services but we're not going to complicate it by putting restrictions on this period end of story We revert back to County Services we revert back to County Services just like the people in I do just like anybody else who lives in an unincorporated area does and pays the exact same taxes that we do and some small municipalities as well that's all it say you could use the $640,000 you're not paying to augment the services is what I'm saying and we could use give the residents comfort that the contract isn't just cancel not this is not about the contract you're making it about the contract and it's not about the contract this is not about the contract if we don't have a contract this goes into a force right correct and then we can talk about whether we're going to try when we're negotiating the contract when you're negotiating when you're doing your discussion with Sheriff Bradshaw about renewing the contract you can have a conversation with him about whether you're gonna accept just accept the 4 per increase whether you're not gonna accept it whether you're gonna say okay well if we don't accept the 4% increase but we still want to have some Services can we reduce it to this amount or that amount that's your conversation to have with Sheriff bredford that you're not going to put a restriction on this ordinance with your conversation that you want to have this ordinance has nothing nothing to do with the contract it has to do with protecting the town should there not be a contract for whatever reason if PBSO goes out of business tomorrow okay it decides not to be PBSO anymore it has nothing to do with the contract and I'm not going to sit here and make you have you make it about the contract or tie it to the contract or tie it to any kind of services it simply says if we don't have PBSO we revert back to the county if we don't have a private contract with them we revert back to County Services that's all it says a contract then this goes into effect I just want to make that clear correct if we don't have a contract this goes into effect and would we use additional funds to that's a decision that has nothing to do with passing this ordinance oh it does no it doesn't questions yes huh questions go right ahead so our contract with the sheriff renews on what date October 1st believe it's September 30th the it gu so for whatever reason let's say we don't negotiate well and we end up not having this contract how do Len you with us here yep how do we put cart before the horse as far as removing Charter language do we just completely negate the the residents's uh right to vote on this by not having a contract it whether we do or we don't I just want to make sure that we do the right steps so let me um let me start by maybe reading the charter provision because it's only one p one one sentence law enforcement services will be provided by contract with the pomes county sheriff's office or contracted with other law enforcement agency until the town adopts an ordinance of the contrary provide that the town shall not establish a Town Police Department without a referendum so there's obviously a lot going on in that sentence right you're going to contract either with the sheriff's office or another law enforcement agency until you adopt an ordinance of the contrary this ordinance is the ordinance of the contrary so if you adopt this ordinance this is the ordinance of the contrary you are not I'm not hearing anybody talk about establishing a Town Police Department which needs to go to referendum if you adopt this and then if the second shoe drops and there's no contract with the sheriff that expires on September 30th That's The $64,000 Question what level of service will be provided um you know there is an argument that they should provide the same level of service that they provide to unincorporated Poes County residents I don't think that's been the sheriff's position in the past but I want to speak for the sheriff I think their position is that you might not get that same level of service the other side of the coin is you're now passing an ordinance that says it shall be the standard law enforcement service provided by PBSO um and that's up to them to determine you know based on need is it a hostage situation or is it you know somebody arguing about what's for dinner my point of asking this question is I want to make sure that we are not and and I hate this phrase but it's been used so many times that we're not just treating the charter as an aspirational document in the sense of oh well they didn't do this and they took away our right to vote on it and you know it now we have a quagmire I just want to make sure we're following steps contract or not does that make sense you are following steps um and again the contract is not tonight so hopefully in the next month there's conversations and the contract if it's going to continue continues on at some level if not the interesting part about this ordinance is that it says remember an ordinance is the law within the town so this ordinance says that the standard law enforcement Services provided by PBSO now it's an interesting dilemma because PBSO has to enforce the law countywide and the law within lock sat grow said they're going to provide the same level of service um that they provide throughout unincorporated Page County so that will be an interesting dilemma I really don't know that a court case on this would be it'd be intellectually very challenging but it wouldn't be in anybody's best interest so hopefully we come to an agreement but this as the mayor says this preserves the options for the town that if there's no agreement then uh you'd be allowed to go forward without an agreement otherwise you're required to have an agreement unless you pass an ordinance like this all right yeah thank you okay Robert you have more to say I'm done um are you just on okay let me let pH just trying to understand the timing because I thought typically we renewed these in April is the contract in front of us now or they have notified us as required by the contract by March 31st of a 4% increase and so now we I anticipate that we will have the new contract from them to be able to put on the June 4th agenda with the contractual increase and I believe that the sheriff's office is also um sending us a letter and also would like to be at the June 4th meeting and in between now and then have informational meetings with you all um you know to discuss our relationship and the contract my point is the contract goes till September 30th it does so we don't need an ordinance in place until September 30th which is why we're doing the first so I don't think doing it now helps matters I think we wait talk to the sheriff get the contract in front of us thank you can I make a motion is that why your lights on that's why my lights on make motion i' like to make a Mo to approve ordinance 2024 -05 regarding law enforcement services on on first reading second second second and by Marge motion made by F second Marge all in favor I oppose I four in favor one oppose okay moving on to item 22 might ah it's not a snowball's chance I please thank you I don't think you need to you can if you I mean do you think you need to I think we're good okay any public comment on this item thank you Captain Turner I'm sorry public hearing has been scheduled it's been advertised for this time okay need to open we need to open the public hearing first is that what we need to do yes yeah he you hear ye it is yeah this is ridiculous okay yeah I well no we're not um all right I I officially open the public hearing is that how I do it do I need a motion or can I just do it I officially you just did it I officially open the public hearing on on ordinance 20242 public comment of course okayi um I just have one thing that concerned me um on page 480 when it says the above uh 23 project 480 second page of the1 91 you mean has all the prices West C West D yes okay that's 491 okay on the second page you talk about the fiscal year 202 completed with the exception of a few notable portions of Road Improvement programs on eoad West G Bome uh to name a few those are level one roads and I have a real concern that those are being pushed 2025 above these little roads like Harry Lane West C West D eoad is a is a is a level one road so I think we had a discussion if you don't have the easement then just pay what's being graded right now that's the footprint I mean obviously the graders been grading it so why are we holding up a main road um so I would be I would just I cautious and put these back on those need to get done before these little plyy roads that's all um I'll try to be brief uh I was gonna make a motion very before his presentation oh I'm sorry okay go ahead I mean we all read it I don't know what else yeah it's been before you before you take five minutes the um the ordinance uh in front of you Capital Improvement ordinance um modifies the previously approved Capital Improvement ordinance in that it uh includes two additional roads um which were included in your bid award um those roads are um like B North uh and North B Toc and Casey Road um and then there has been additional funding for specific culverts that are listed um the total cost of uh those things are $71,000 and change um the funding for those um come from an anticipated donation of $250,000 um a um feema reimbursement monies of $271,000 um and $180,000 um from transferred from the 105 fund uh out of the 321,000 that was carried forward from last year um and that's the ordinance uh the budget amendment reflecting those same changes um to uh the town's budgets is uh set forth in resolution 24-29 you have any questions I'll be happy to answer phis well I was expecting this list to change there if you look on page 244 um where you get to um the Public Works director's report he has a list of the roads um that he is ready to give notice to proceed on we have a meeting tomorrow uh with the paving contractor there are seven roads I believe that are um ready at this point in time the rest of the road segments um continue to be under evaluation um and he will advise you as to when and if those are um ready to proceed um the listed Road segments are 161st terce North is the first road to be done Casey Road is the second East Citrus well and I want to clarify um 161st Terrace North will be the first one to be done um the the rest of these roads Casey Road East Citrus Drive 147th Avenue North 24th for East of f Road 24th Court West of f road and ruber road um are you know going going to be the subject of the discussion as to the order of them but they are ready to be proceeded with and the Public Works director will advise you as to when when and if those are I so at our last meeting we discussed the level one roades and I don't see them on here I believe at the last meeting we discussed putting the last level one roads yes on the begin on the at the beginning of next year's budget right so that they could start commencing in October right this summer on next year biding them this summer so that they could be in the 2025 budget okay that's good that's the consensus I believe we came to yes and that that might actually in fact have them start sooner than if they were added to this list right okay okay that's that was my concern that's it yep okay Laura you are next Glenn are you still with us yes I am oh awesome um do I need to recuse myself because it specifically mentions a road that I live on even though it's carrying forward from a group we voted on in 2023 no my memory is you you voted on this as a group you're continuing it forward so this is it you're talking into a fishbowl oh how's that better okay now my memory is this was already voted on as a group and you're just carrying that forward so um Jeff you have the agenda item there are you seeing anything that's causing you concern because I'm not really concerned uh no because it's the overall CIP project which includes $4.4 Million worth of projects um and as I said if anything if you're talking about roads it's been diluted because there is additional roads um that have been added right amen Li I never had any to begin with thank next there's no other comments I'd like to make a motion Okay I hold on do you have another comment or no okay Robert make a motion to approve ordinance 2024 d02 which repeals 2023 d04 second all in favor I five to Z we need another motion for this resolution make a motion approve resolution 2020 4-29 second all in favor I oppose passes five to zero want look at this last one sure let's do ite do okay I was wondering why you were here I was like what item is she here for oh I'm so sorry you're perfectly fine okay at later meetings certainly good yeah she has to read me the title okay um why don't we let her give her presentation first because that might answer the question from the C public comment can you keep it to like five to 10 minutes do you better okay great I love two minutes two minutes is great go ahead good evening Madame mayor members of the council Caitlyn Forbes consultant planner for the town uh tonight before you is an ordinance relating to debris Management Services of course uh this ordinance does two things one it amends the definition of essential services to expressly include debris Management in reference to debris management post Disaster Cleanup it also amends the permitted use table in the AR uh the a district the zoning District uh to add ENT essal Services debris management as a special exception category B and further defines essential Services other uh as category a previously the table didn't identify as category for all other essential services so that was more of a cleanup item um there also are a handful of Criterion that a uh essential Services debris management site would need to follow including um access location General size and minimum distance separation um the subject site that is in consideration has been brought forward to the town is at the corner of Southern Boulevard and uh C Road at the northeast corner uh ashrit is under contract with the town to provide debris Management Services and they have been pre uh permitted through Southern Boulevard and SE Road I'm sorry okay thank you uh they've been pre- permitted through the fdp and uh Solid Waste Authority at Palm Beach County for the site to operate uh it's generally 15 or 16 Acres at that northeast corner um so they have all of their pre-existing uh approvals through the other authorities and essentially this is the the zoning cleanup to uh mirror and uh accompany those other permits that they already have so uh aspirat under contract as I mentioned we also have uh a separate consultant that would oversee the site as a third-party uh consultant to make sure that they're following all the stipulations outlined in their DSW a permits and that is pretty much all the information I have for you now just one note um unfortunately the ashp representative was not able to join us tonight uh he will be here for second reading and if you have any aspirate specific questions uh please save them for him because he'll be much better uh and able to answer those questions well on Phyllis we're doing public comment first go ahead Cassie C sui so I do have a problem with us being a garbage dun but there were some issues that were written under the underlined things that really do need to be looked at um when you look at section a number one properties used as the Brie management site shall be located south of collecting Canal row that is a lot of real estate okay and if I lived off of collecting canal and they went further towards collecting canal so maybe we need to limit it not just south but maybe so many feet off the Southern Boulevard instead of south of to collecting Canal um I think there needs to be some type of size that's a lot of real estate um the other one was vehicular access to the property shall be provided from our lettered roads we already know what these heavy trucks from The Sod Farm are doing to B- road now we're going to have more trucks coming from all over through trucks coming through B- road to get there that needs to be delineated it should be off of the main road of Southern Boulevard okay because you're obviously saying it's south of of collecting Canal you're hopefully going to put a distance and it should be off of Southern we don't need to be having through trucks coming through broad because obviously this debris is coming from other areas not just our town um and the minimum distance separation you have your um storage units at three miles this is only one mile I think it needs to be at least the same equivalent as the storage units um we don't want to have somebody putting additional ones in and then there needs to be some type of time limit for the cleanup listed is this debris going to sit there for six months eight months so maybe we need need to say once the debris is is in there on this emergency once the emergency is lifted the debris has to be cleaned up and the property returns turn to its former self or however you guys want to word it but I think those are things that needed to be added because I do see some loopholes and some issues thank you mayor yes may um just to clarify um A2 um uses ab and C Road as an example this property will not be accessed by any other Road besides C Road and Southern second of all it is also my appreciation that this property will have to do a site plan that will be subject to conditions of approval um by the council and um I think that that is where those specifics go the site distance obviously would go here Kaitlyn okay go ahead Mar yeah um I wanted to ask about the essential services that uh may be required um on the site you know um some of them are are pretty permanent and pretty involved and I Wonder What Becomes of this piece of land after this site is not going to be used in the future this is not a permanent use this is an emergency use that would only come into play when there is a declaration of an emergency and this is used not for garbage this property is used for debris management it means all the stuff that goes flying around and falls down during a hurricane it's a FEMA sanction site and what Caitlyn mentioned about it being under oversight it's under oversight of the DP it's under oversight of the Sal Waste Authority we have a contractor who has to follow rules in their agreement and they all we ALS so have um a Consulting oversight on them under contract so this section on essential services does not apply in other words is no this go ahead most of the existing language in the definition there um that's all existing language as they just said um the only new language is the underlining language there that says essential Services may also include debris Management Services so it's just expressly calling out that debr management falls under that but yeah that's the only new thing Robert yeah my comment is the wording debris management I think it should have post disaster debris management because you read this who's to stop somebody from getting an EPA certification and setting up a vegetation debris yard right now based on this thing so I think post disaster debris management should be in in the table as well as section 20-55 and then a should say debris management operations pre-approved by Department of Environmental Protection and related to a state declared disaster may be permitted by special exception category you want to say state or County declared disaster I mean you have a county county disaster okay D is going to tell them when they can open the site and operate it so if D says that they're okay I would presume that the town would follow suit I just thought it was important to have that wording I think that's good in the definitions it does it does expressly say debris management for the purposes of post- Disaster Cleanup so we'll carry that through thank you phis does property come into compliance with code it's in process of coming into compliance it has to do tree mitigation and the tree mitigation will be a buffer and what about the storage containers the storage containers are for BS and we randomly are able to go to the property I've personally driven by and we do make them move any additional containers on the prop thank you more comments i' make a motion to approve second all in favor I iOS passes five to zero thank you thank you sorry for keeping you here so late okay it's now 11 o'clock motion to extend second but that's okay I we can do it in 15 minutes I can do less than that I doubt it I no he I'm not going to actually review it in detail I'm GNA say there's some type oh I'm sorry we need a motion to close the public hearing make a motion to close the public hearing now I need to make a to extend the meeting I we already extended the meeting even though I voted I and I on the record I voted n all right okay go ahead see you not going to go through the whole thing I'm just going to remind everybody what council member Shore said at the last meeting this agenda item is important for you to look at because this is what's scheduled to come before you there are some typos and a couple of things have already been added Andor changed I will tell you conveyance of the county right away at intersection of Ian oobe currently scheduled for June is now moving to August or September it's depending upon the County Commission approving it before it comes here um Murray Logan is a piggyback for Canal dredging we are bringing that forward on June 4th um we said Scott mcneel for some reason it's Brian mcneel um excuse me can I just put one thing in here before I forget it before I lose the I'm quickly you have next council meeting drainage workshop May 21st I want a very clear distinction that this is a workshop that starts at 6:30 and all the advertising and all the everything so we don't have people showing up at six o'clock for I think that um staff was hoping we could Workshop from 6 till 8 oh great let's do six to eight but I want at six looking six looking to correct have the open exchange okay six to eight all work correctly last time and correct we had people show up so I just want to clear that up okay thank you right time shirt time certain time certain get six to eight we're done yeah we get through what we get through it's a big topic if we don't make it it'll be again thank you very um on the um on the Johnson Davis work authorization I wanted to let you know that that is for a culvert at 24th and F which has been discussed here before um also we are advertising Council approved a volunteer policy previously um you have asked that we try to get some Volunteers in so it was last year in April and so we are um you'll see some advertisements for volunteers um Additionally the 21st May 21st meeting will hopefully touch on um the village of Royal Palm Beach drainage issue um I do want to talk about the items that were requested to go on this agenda look at we're running to the very last minute there were three other items requested one was to talk about town council's participation on other committees I have put in the backup where everyone currently participates this does not include any appointments to League of cities which we will have to put the voting Delegate for League of cities on a future agenda I'm not sure if it'll be June or July meetings in August right right the meeting is in August and I think it's like August 8th so it might work out better that we've moved our meeting is anyone going to the installation of the new officers on May 21st I don't think you have to vote at that meeting and I don't think any of our council is on the new board okay because it's a $95 charge well we would certainly reimburse that I know but I didn't know whether any anybody else was going we can buy a table I'll I'll check if you like um the second item was to have another discussion on the okobi corridor we do have some things to discuss in terms of conversations that we've had with the county but the request here was to have um a committed stance on what our town position is with regard to development um west of us and east of us on okobi bullet we're putting that on the next agenda is what you're telling yes please thank you thank you and then and you'll put the committee participation and that'll probably come in nicely with the league of cities appoint so that's great it's probably going to be July because I think yeah perfect and then discussing discussing adopting a policy for reimbursement of attorney fees um I have put in here a letter from our attorney and um a sample policy for reimbursement of attorney's fees um please read it and also um I believe that Um this can go on any agenda because it's ready to go if I get a consensus from you all to put it on an agenda attorney fees for who attorney's fees for any council person or staff member or committee person that's acting in their capacity as um um in their role with the town that successfully defends an Ethics um um uh uh violation would you please put what in this would you please put it I'd like that you put in Glen's opinion and everything here but would you please put I know that P out of that 20224 document what our current policy is on this so that we can have that to refer to as we create establish a new policy I think the current policy is probably not specific enough so it is not the current policy does not speak to put some specifics in it right got it so I'll put the current policy can I put this on yes the June 4th agenda sure okay why not um so those were the items that I got requested to be added to the agenda we will be coming back with the schedule of the um budget workshops but I do want you to take a look at what we have coming through planning it's not scheduled um these are largely dependent upon how they come through um their application a lot of these still have to answer questions on their applications um I believe we will be having a May PCB meeting and I believe it's going to be Groves at Town Center so Groves at Town Center the hotel um um will be ready for Council review soon following the PCB so we may if they meet their time deadlines want to have um um a meeting and I'm thinking that maybe we do it like at five o'clock before Council meetings I'm thinking for the future we don't have to decide now if we put one application at 5 o'l it's still a I don't know how you all want to do it um just some thoughts to think about and at the late hour I'm sure you don't want to decide tonight so I just want to put it out there um we have not listed anything here that hasn't come through application um but people have been talking to us about a lot of things that they wish to do site plan amendments as a result result of code will also have to come through um and I know that there are a number letters of intent for purchase um and we have two different or three different property owners that have those letters of intent that are talking to us about possible things that they wish to do so I'm going to end my um agenda item review thank you for the direction on those three items and if there are any other items Council wants to add please let me know I know I went super fast C you you got anything besides saying adios only that um could we move the ethics item from June to July because I'll be on vacation at the June meeting and I'd like to be there we can't hear you right now um how's that okay um could we move that ethics issue from the June meeting to July because I'll be on vacation at the June meeting and I'd like to be there for that conversation okay thank you other than that thank you Glen I hope you feel better thank you I'm hoping that I'll be able to drive again within the next week or two thank you did you have okay Glenn I mean um I'm sorry you know your name right Richard Richard that's your name you're next need to make coffee next right um good night what do I have oh yeah so a couple things um so we are we talked about this previously uh we are switching from code red to Civic ready um that became effective today so at this point we will be using Civic ready to go forward to make any emergency um alert or anything to Residents um for anything that's going on in the town uh we do need to send out some type of educational material to the residents because I think at this point out of 3,400 residents 36 I think or something like that are actually signed up for it and I think half of those are employees uh or Town Council Members no we were able to take all the signups from Code Red download them and upload them the 30 all 36 of them yes uh it was a daunting task but and two of them you know one's me and one's her so yeah it's they call 42 times a day yeah we do that on purpose um the second thing is um we had the idea floating around to try to get rid of these tables uh by doing the same thing over there here and just wanted to see what you guys thoughts on that were you know maybe eliminating these two tables just having just the one maybe get something a little bit better than the U Costco Folding picnic table thing forward too yeah they were not visible yeah it needs to be moved over and honestly what needs to happen all you see is people's butt and so I had all these complaints about that so we gotta find the happy medium yeah well honestly what probably needs to happen is um because it's the same thing like when Jeff is here there's a there's a glare on the camera from the reflection um was yeah we go back and forth well on the side Richard cre SE to them right he can sit over there um but now we're gonna you know we're going to look at um when I talk to the it folks about the sound system uh possibly doing something with the camera system as well and putting a camera there or there that would face this direction so that when somebody is on Zoom they can see the speaker bounce off my head well no you put it over there it'll shine that way that way won't be as much of a glare got shiny radar wherever we go my cowboy yeah right um otherwise things are going well we're moving forward with all the preparations for the paving project um and then from there we're going to start going working on um we're trying to basically anybody who's driven by public works it's probably seen the debris pile we have there of uh stuff we are removing and that stuff that we're removing the contractor who we paid to cut the trees down removed their own debris so the stuff that you see at public works is the stuff that our crews have been removing um so it's a lot and they're picking up the dumpster twice a day 30 yard dumpster twice a day uh until it's all gone right now we're probably bringing in more material faster than what they can actually get rid of it so it's um it's a lot but I think a lot of it's going to help us during Hurricane Season because if we get hit by a storm since we're removing a lot of this debris from the public RightWay now it'll be a lot less when an actual storm comes so hopefully it'll be a lot less disruption to the public um trees on public on private property there's nothing we can do about so if anybody's got dead trees on their private property or they got overgrowth on their own properties we cannot remove it we cannot do anything about it we can there's no way for us to mitigate it until something happens um other otherwise that's all I got didn't you need to ask for a truck you already asked for your truck got it in as as sign it signed the thing and the Sur yeah the the truck and the the truck and the Surplus were in the uh exactly but you guys got to recognize he's paid for it with his with his broken property he paid for it with all the junk Tru you could have L's junk a recycled J the okay guys we've got six oh we've got another person the town CL he was talking we do have the town clerk but when he was talking when Richard was talking about the sound system it's the receiver and we're getting a new one for free so thank you town clerk what would you like to say tonight no no report excellent I love no report okay we're gonna go down council members we've got 16 minutes so each person gets two minutes Laura before we rearrange furniture and get new stuff and hang new cameras can we get mics that work thank you everybody have a good night didto mics that work absolutely I would like to add something to item 18 friend M no next comes back when it comes back I'd like your consensus on no eating from the day I think it's rude and distracting if you're having a sugar thing and it's a chemical and you're having a health thing you could leave and go eat in the lobby can I have a consensus on eating on the de we never did it before I do think eating in front of people is rude I agree with that that's two I can go either way I will eat if I want to and do so it's a wishy-washy a two and a two so that means there's no consensus okay Robert I'm not done oh I'm sorry so I would like uh see my sign ordinance longer loan periods if we could investigate that and bring them back I'm not sure how my fellow council members but we need stuff we need big stuff you could see the pile of crap that's now leaving the town which was a giant waste of money so we need to buy equipment that's going to last and that's not going to kill us in monthly payments thank you good night now you're de okay Robert your turn all right yeah went to the groundbreaking today for the new school out uh just west of Arden it's just off Southern Boulevard so you'll kind of be able to see it from Southern so um everybody was there our Western communities Indian Trail had somebody Wellington a few people West Lake and and I was there so um um um what's our school district and Mara yeah thinking Macy yeah Marsha acknowledged um that we were there which is good you know anytime we get a chance said Mara called me because she was wondering where I was and I told her I didn't get the invitation so I did send it to all counsel it wasn't labeled well it was labeled as West area something and they changed the invitation like six or seven different times yeah I had even including till yesterday accept it like three or four different times from different people yep it came all over the place but um it was good it was short and sweet and uh that's it I talked to Richard earlier about the briis stuff so thank you we did a good job I think with the CIP thanks Jeff everybody it's uh we're just rolling right into it and we're not we're still keeping our reserves which is awesome but evening I am uh glad that we finished this all in one night even though even though was our Reluctant Dragon that's it that's all you got okay well I'll always go with what the group wants Mar I generally um except on staying awake till 11 o'clock at night uh so I just want to thank staff once again for having you know like really great detail reports and uh thank the citizens who came and participated in the process and uh gave us their valued input and to say good night motion to adjourn second third fourth e for