um I think we can go live we are recording we are recording uh welcome to the April 22nd 2024 meeting of the board of assessors of lunberg Massachusetts uh in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised this meeting is being recorded and broadcast over the lunburg public access channel on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page page https col www.fb.com lunberg public- access Das cable Dash 1572 157 427 270 97535 SL recording can be found at the lunenberg access YouTube channel after the meeting the meeting will be held in person at this location we are in the r lower level of the Ritter building uh members of the public are welcome to attend this inperson meeting please note that while an option for remote attendance Andor participation uh is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with particular interest in any specific item on this agenda should make plans for inperson versus versus virtual attendance accordingly for remote participation from a computer please use the e-link below to join the public meeting webinar it is https us02 web. zoom. us. J sorry that was us slj SL 852 439 26658 and again the meeting ID is 852 4392 6658 from a telephone toll-free number 888 475 4499 and enter the webinar ID I just mentioned I'll read it again 852 4392 6658 followed by the pound sign if you have not registered with zoom uh you will be asked for your name and an email address no participant ID is required just press the pound sign when asked telephone users may dial star9 to request to speak after joining the meeting computer and app users may use the rais hand feature to request to speak the agenda lists all topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law I'm going to call us to order since we have no Zoom members today we don't need to go through the introduction but I think we probably should I think we have to just say I don't know well let's do it anyway okay I like that idea you Lind M principal assessor Reena Sweezy Sarah Cammer Brian lefant John rabbit lean in so they can see your face oh yeah John rabbit I don't want blind you with my head uh we typically start with opening comments are there any comments from the board SAR no Mr rabbit uh none at this moment uh none for me I'll hold off to later since there's no public in attendance is there someone on Zoom who would like to speak during the open comments opening comments session I don't even see if there's anybody on Zoom at the moment there was a dinging yeah do you have doing a display that shows the different kind of screens I can make that screen can we tell can you can you do it I can try I didn't you know you know what you're talking about sometimes sometimes okay today just to make sure if someone raises their hand we actually see it okay they ad them I to get them to show up at all but they there should be a thing ask request we have is US participating okay that's good so move it back over to the side a little bit there we go is your way I think if we if we have people coming in we'll see a on the sides sir yep y uh the first order of business today is the status report from The Ass Say interim principal assessor and new principal assessor so you have two separate reports or just one just one okay we're happy with that I brought copies too you have the floor as well yes so coffee I got mine oh okay he made your Cofe here she thank you to you it's it's the same okay you want me to go through it yes please we've been quite busy uh Reena and I uh started reviewing uh 102 building permits from 2021 to 2023 just to make sure that all the permits have been included in the vision appraisal software and um any Mis permits will result in either supplemental bills revised bills Andor growth for uh fiscal year 2025 so we're already working on next year growth um what method would you like we just ask questions as you go through or you save them to the end whatever you're most comfortable if you want to go through them each item that's fine go ahead I would say ask questions as we go otherwise we'll forget them we're not fingers after a while a question how many more do you think you have and how many did you find uh so far uh I have two revised bills so far uh supplementals and actually I have two supplemental bills so far I've gone through a lot of the 2021 building permits and we seem to have all those finding them in 22 and 23 at this point so you're still working still working yeah I've got a ways to go we've been a little busy with commitment number two for the motor vehicles and then the tax bills went out yes notice when came in so that yeah so that activity yeah but I have started the growth uh I'm up to 2.2 million in assessed value for growth for 2025 as a result of your 202 as a result of going through permits just for 2021 you get tell that's not for 21 for fiscal 2025 um so far that's assessed value that's not tax dollars M yeah I yeah so um so we we're making shotting ahead just to clarify so you basically found nothing in 2021 so these are 2022 mostly or 2023 2022 and 2023 right so yeah good job more to go yeah there there's a lot more to go but we're making hitway um and um the third bullet uh we completed five of Butter's list from the end of March until now um and we um actually it was 98 motiv vehicle excise and trailer excise tax abatements totaling $1,218 36 for the month of mon we actually have a couple reports we we've got quite a bit Fe you to sign so that was for the first commitment we haven't got anything back from the second commitment yet it's not included in this the um they not the second isn't included that's just just that's fine mhm yeah well we've we had a lot of traffic today today for commitment number two um and then uh we also provide a new zoning map to the police and fire departments and we have a copy of that in our office as well part of the mappings from C okay okay the reduced those reduced maps and it was actually um uh Dan that made copies for us and he took them over he took copies over to the police into to the fire so they could have a reduced copy of the new zoning map okay so and uh we also have a commitment number um two for 2024 I have the uh warrant for that uh and there were 889 bills for commitment number two and that's a total of $285,100 and then we just had one bill for commitment 9 of 2022 and that bill total $77.99 I'm not sure do you want to sign this after this stuff after durs all right and then um next item we actually got access to neap last week we were actually having a ball with that we had it we didn't know is everybody familiar with near tell me about that no you're probably familiar with it right Sarah near map yeah but for for Jack and me please and and the folks what's what is near map near map is almost like a satellite you can go in satellite image and you can actually look at a house and Reena and I were questioning with some of these permits so we were a a look at the yard we were question turn the house all around find out where the addition was which we already had so now does it overlay the property lines and things like that on near map like the wood and the g no no it's not like that see it's kind of like doing Google kind of like Google Earth Okay Google Earth okay only you can go all the way around the building yeah see yeah the only drawback was it was from March of 20123 so it doesn't appear like it's been updated yet so I'm not sure when that so that was the only drawback but we actually thought it was a great tool yeah and uh so hopefully it'll allow us to kind of verify some of the the data Talent hat you yeah that's good so what do you just dial in near map or is that part of the gis package or is it part of the it's separate separate separate and do can we access into it we can't the town has it on if we going through the town site it's it's um I think it's just like our vision um there are so many licenses and I think we only have one license near M but you can come into the office I could I'm I'm not heartbroken trust me I'm just saying okay how do I do that yeah because I know that there's other folks like the Conservation Commission who I always went to two sources I went to the Google Maps and the other one I went to the uh uh M the wheer file and looked up what they posted in the past so it would behoove us to tell the folks over conservation that you know there's another way of looking at stuff besides just that single view we could probably reach out to make sure that they actually have a license because there may be another license one for us one for them we don't know we just know that there's a limited number of licenses for the town that's that's a real powerful to we double check that is it time stamped meaning you can go back a year as well or two years and do we didn't we didn't try that we didn't try that we just noticed that the date on the bottom said March 2023 so they've had it for a whole week you're not an experts yet well we've had a few other things thank you like you walk in there and you both wow kid very cool sort of yeah Tuesday really the other thing is we ordered door hangers for the property inspections it's like a yellow card so when we go out now we'll put a door hanger and we can you know Mark that there was a building permit so hopefully those will be coming in the next couple weeks there have been complaints in the past about somebody was sneaking around my well we're not speaking at all but now we can leave our calling card and we're we're sending out notes in advance now like you you used to send out I used to send out um postcard well for the sales inspections yeah I would send out postcards and tell them that I be coming in one to three weeks that's something that we probably will order once we get caught up it's a lot of your you know what you were doing okay so sales is another another way to to generate growth too because in our office we've always send out sales verification letters oh letters a yeah after no no no no when yeah when we see when you sold them she used to send out uh a postcard to folks saying that there's somebody coming you might even include their name or the company they're with and and such to let them know and they try to schedule I don't if you schedule time or if they missed you or but you were coming and at the same time they also notified the police department that that we've always done that' always done that and that's your zoning map yeah yeah yeah this the um postcards are nice for the sales because a lot of times people call back and they want to schedule an appointment and it's nice because we have the MLS and then the Warren group is what I used to take the information from that I fill cards out and mail them and then to go out and do the actual inspection so it's nice cuz you pick up decks and stuff that oh yeah missed as well yeah uh sometimes if if they don't call you back and you you can't get inside you can access MLS too which instead of a note saying you've not responding and therefore you can't go to ATV or it's they actually refuse no no they I mean they don't have to let us in the only the only refusal on ETV is on abatements if not SE verification okay if if they file an abatement and they refuse to let you do an inspection that's a cause for disal or denial if they so if you're doing your annual inspection and you ask to go in the house and they refuse to allow you and you get a new tax bill we get do we get the right to come up with only if they file an abatement yeah they don't have to let us in if if we're just doing an inspection yeah and I knock on the door first to let them know that I'm there and if they don't answer I place a door hanger on and then I'll just take the record card and check the data and just do the outside um and then and then you do your best worst guess well I mean it it's not a guess because you you try to use the MLS to see if you can see if it's on there if it's Rel relatively recent yeah but um hopefully you you know you get the MLS and then the inerior I can't the exterior inspection and then you can see uh verify what's on the data card okay and so if they not happy they can file their batment and then they refuse to let you in to to scope it out then you they lost the ATB rights okay yep so that's the only time that they have to to let us [Music] in and um the next item we actually received uh a June 28th 2024 hearing notification from the ATB for the settlement of the four pending ATB cases which we can talk about later on during executive session right yeah and then um the next our meeting for tonight tonight so and the other meetings will come up later on the agenda we'll talk about that later on y um if I could then one of the things that we've talked about in the past is some and I've even built a section in the new website some sort of an operational performance metrics you just gave us a pile of data that would fit in there and so uh and I'll send this over to you but basically can you tell us uh how many homes did we sell this month and I know that Banker And Trades report and and okay we can cover this later on this is really not part of this report right now if you wanted to add it to the just saying okay then let's hold on to that because I would like to talk we can we can U actually talk about that later on okay because it's if it's a g or an assessive report perhaps we can start formatting it so we can track it versus there's a certain level of Randomness that's hard to follow especially as old folks and so if we had an operational yeah schematic there were a couple of things that I mentioned to you that I thought should have been on here that oh yes that we didn't because she was trying to keep it to one page yes yes we didn't well we um like I mentioned we're working on growth um we've been um busy with with commitments exemptions is something that I didn't mention we are working on that the 41c yep and the 17 22 and 308 yeah 17 D um and the other thing was all of those abatements from last year that were sitting around in bankers boxes and piles of crap they were all filed in a file they're in a file cabinet and they're all hang hanging fols great work by numbers so uh we only did 23 though right cuz we only had like a few the prior years oh all the ones that we we have to keep just in case right um there are there are 20 um tws 21s there are small piles that are those also filed or are those those are filed in that other desk there's G down there perfect and they've been put in there perfect but these um this took up one and a half file cabinet so just a follow little followup on that uh most of the abatement applications were inh house there were a couple that were taken out out of the house and we've gotten one of the back there are a couple that are now missing so we're still trying to find out what happened to the missing couple because it is our it's incumbent upon us to maintain those files and since they they were taken out of out of the house we don't have access to them anymore so we don't have sign out card system like the when this was being done and and and the abatements were being done and then the ATB cases were were coming up there there were virtually no controls we really had no control and we had several different people working on them so and we were trying to make copies as we went of the entire packet for the vendor right which was MFS right it was a little bit hard to we couldn't track them we have we have spreadsheets with our we loged them in as they came in the day they came in and everything's logged into um an baitman log but physically tracking them it was hard enough to right get them to where they had to go yeah you you have I mean you walked and it was not lack of a system too and when this is just an opportunity for improvement that's all got and we're working toward that right now we already do it with our abatement logs yeah yeah right which he doesn't keep walking out with the whole record under nothing should have left the building yeah what we thought we'd do this year CU we've already started our log uh for our SE abatement say we'll make a scan cofy you jumping so that we have that in case something that's a good idea I believe you're jumping ahead but okay i r the subject maybe I got the agenda wrong and which is quite possible quite possible uh did you want to finish up on that part of the conversation and that's it pretty uh that's it for our so the key point there was so far we've received six six so far abatement requests applications four we're doing away with we're processing four of those tonight or those no no no we won't do we won't process any of those yet right now okay U those are just beinged in this is more at the equation okay well that's a separate yeah separate um these are the abatement requests for 2024 what we're talking about before or later on will be for 23 okay so thank you so um yeah we have six we did have a lot more oh we did have seven oh well the seven was really 10 and something yeah oh there yeah about 150 Parcels we had one parcel excuse me we had one application that included about 140 or 150 parcel condo complex it was all right this goes back right do you want me to explain it sure all right this goes back cuz we should all be familiar with it this goes back to 2020 and it was um a developer that filed his plans with the um planning board they were all approved and in 21 when the next assessor came on um she was our first principal assessor um she put them in all the separate lots and she put them in at full value MH um so he filed an abatement and we went out the I went out with the board and we did an inp inection and it's there's no infrastructure no streets um no water no sewer you know just it was just a on it's a paper subdivision and the streets were cut already no the streets were not cut it's just it's just vacant land it's a what we call a paper subdivision so nothing was started yeah so um so no new they were all Abad down I I think I want to say it's like 150 of them um they were all Abad down to potentially developable at they got a discount of 90% so they're all at 10% and um he didn't file he filed that one year he didn't file last year um he had file this year and then he sent me an email this morning and he said he looked at he just got all his tax bills and he looked at them and he said withdraw my abatement he said my land Valu is are fine so we went from what would have been a pile of them yeah to six wow yeah well that's good news yeah yeah yeah I like that thank you so thank you yes anything else you want to hit on yeah I did want to mention one thing a lot of the calls we're getting we are getting phone calls but a lot of them I think people are confused because there was three prelim quarters so the last bill tends to be much higher yeah so it's in some cases it's kind of catchup for third quarter being prelim so otherwise it would have been split so we've been getting a lot of calls and we you look it up in Unice and verify that and then most of the time they're oh okay that makes sense yeah so just an observation we did a really good job when we did the preliminary bill for Q3 yeah of putting a letter in there and explaining what was going on we did nothing in Q4 and I don't know why it never occurred to us to put a letter in there and say this is the makeup this is our catchup we didn't do it and it's too late now but another good learning point another lesson learned we did a really good job Q3 and a not such a good job of communicating think we should adopt a policy that says we're going to put a letter a little note in there with every one of them just again most of them hello we're here friendly any questions call No it's it's a very routine and it's not necessary but this time because of the the difference in our our calendar for this year we should have thought and it just never occurred to one of us maybe in the thing you're building it can be in case of fire break glass these are the things to remember we'll put in fre frequently Asked question are we're going to take it in and put it out that's like you said it's never done yeah if this ever happens again here's what you should that's you know it's happened twice in the history of the state or something I don't think it's going to happen again but we can make a guide book for some other community yeah I like that so that's good welcome thank you very much for the update M uh we are now going to riew and approved minutes oh I love it I said you i s you saw my response I haven't I haven't we have the minutes from January 8th yes uh I believe one of your pieces of feedback was about the 8 and it said you want to change the word from process to project project or something proc it is now done okay great so uh that's the only other uh Amendment and oh I I had another one M are in pink there's some spelling err oh okay but I did these modifications oh well maybe I didn't catch them all CU I I I didn't I I um read all your is this for the yep January 8th y okay so the modifications are on it's right after I had to read your vision card after the breaking audio ran it was February the 26th by the way you jumped to said that I changed the name I didn't change that one oh okay okay so there's just some type of gener um do you want the whole thing for me let's do them one at a time so we can approve them I mean do you want the whole you got more changes for the same date no I'm just wondering if you want the whole print out for cont no because I may have changed things that you didn't change so we're going to be on the same page here okay it's before oh it's up in here then yeah Sarah I didn't I didn't hit the crammer and taking out the what theth theth the it's accepted for the town purposes for Town purposes I'm happy with that any more for that date no uh I will I'm just going to go through them one at a time so make sure we do them all I'll entertain them motion to uh accept these minutes as amended so seconded uh these are the minutes of January 8th all in favor I'll make the modification I'll get them out to just so everybody knows they have to be then turned into a PDF and sent to to the town clerk January 22nd I had nothing two pages and you didn't mention anything on that one I didn't have anything there BR I will entertain a motion um I think you corrected this on your version which one is it um how far down I don't know where it is new business me you corrected it wow I will uh entertain a motion to accept the minutes as written by for J January 22nd so moved second you can so move next time no I I don't mind all in favor early progression all in favor hi uh the minutes of January 29 yes which is originally which was listed as January 31 yeah for some reason but it's really January 29th so um what did you have anything in the way of modifications no I didn't Mr rabbit anything in way of modifications not believe I did no I would I only had two and I said that's that's fine and I go ahead we'll entertain a motion for the 29 minutes move second I I this you could vote first how's that Sarah February 5 after a mess of there was one typo cam where was it where where is it how under current business three paragraphs down right after excess of money of overall budget you might have fixed it already I might not have here oh it's which down oh it's on the second second page sorry what current business approve oh so I changed this because we actually covered it 5year plan first so it's further in the minutes okay so no no it's in the same minutes I just have find it um Sarah camer what is it underboard questions me look oh I'll I'll mark it on yours you fixed it Iain a motion to accept the minutes of February 5th as written I should accept the minutes February 5th second all in favor I sorry I didn't have time to go through it thank you no this is we got to I just want to keep I want to from falling behind again yeah we W up with 10 there's too many it should be within 30 days it's not well we weren't expecting this uh the minutes we are now looking at the minutes of February 12th I had nothing to add on those except I also did not know the last name no of which no oh Bob Becky from V oh Becky I I fixed those Bob PE I didn't get the P's though where's that one p e a s e but oh where is it I can skim it and find it if you want write it on would you please yeah with the addition of the name Bob peas um any other changes no to February whatever that 12th some of these I printed along the long Edge some I printed on the short Ed some of them I flipped over I'll fix it see oh one of them the pages slid through so I just stapled them that way I'm not see it that's the one with the Bob Peas I might have it mixed up now this it should be this one cuz this is the one we're sitting at the table during the uh final report well not the final you know one of those still no one else on the zoom no not I can [Music] see what's it after on your page or did you it's not on it did I take it out I think you took it out okay but then we should amend it because Bob pce was asking where to find the map information I don't think I took that out though um no that's on the 26th sorry this one there were no modifications to the what's the date February 12th feary 12 did you I didn't have any modifications I don't recall having any either no so as written so yes so I accept the minutes of February 12th as written second all in favor I okay give me that one fine it's oh I just I thought I just had it good job if you know where it is nope did the yellow one in front of that that's for him um this it's right here it's uh uh comments p e a SE and I don't know his address but I can look it up what's the date on that one I'm sorry 26 26 I had one too we changed your process to project as you wished to program what you wrote to me was Project did I really yeah you want me to change his program CR training care yeah training program care you did cross off the minutes of January 3 first cuz there's no meeting right correct okay program same right and were you able to get the last G of all those other people yeah I I did okay cross training program so I'll change this to program I will add Mr peas and let me Circle it just so I'll find it easier so I didn't see anything else training so as modified U motion to accept the minutes of February 26th is amended I for second all in favor I I wrapped up wa to recycle these March 4th the BAU room it's a fairly lengthy one okay were there any modif modifications that any of you saw either of you saw n really it was likely but good thank you I really did not see anything in here okay um this was the one March 4th you were zoomed yes yes yeah yeah I had Co then that's right you've had a couple zooms okay decided not to let me in um I'm just checking no I didn't have anything El okay on my accident that like printed out twice and corrected twice to what he looking to you motion motion to accept the minutes March 4th as second all in favor [Applause] I March 12th this was the I just have a grammar fix this was the joint meeting with the select board yeah so the portion of this that is Select board related is exactly the same as ours but you'll fix the we won't have the mistake in ours there's a semicolon requir otherwise it's a run on sentence under the 16 wait a minute public comment comment that's you yep [Applause] it's after the word have a fixed income fixed income oh I see thank you um I didn't have any modifications other than that and was that the classification here that was the classification should I call it that by the way it's called Joint meeting of the select board but should I call it was the purpose was for a classification two purposes but it was a classification here it was classification um we also talked about the 41 SE correct yeah so it's not it's not just a classification hearing there were two two things we talked about there so that's why I didn't change it I can change it if you want to have it on the header if ification and the and 4y discussion for the warrant but but the reason we had to meet jointly with the selectman was for the purpose of a classification correct right and then you brought the other stuff into it but the main purpose I I understand so you classification hearing to the header so that we have it I because it does say it's 7:30 when they look at our stuff they do look for the and I think classification hearing is one of their items on their calendar or are they looking for yeah and that's why we could put it on where they yeah it's a um you have it at 7:30 tax classification hearing but it is buried in there yeah and I'll add it right here yeah tax we added the 41 because we needed to get it done right and we also second invoice from Nate now that what the second the in Nate sent one for that classification hearing we can talk about that later let's finish the minutes I was just going to say we dated it because there was no data there was no for March 12th oh he well he originally sent it with a date of December December 23 23 something like that December so with the addition of tax classification hearing is say joint meeting with the select board and tax classification hearing I'll add that in as part of the header okay um and then it shows up at 7:30 and I will change that one thing with the semicolon is there anything else here that need to be amended a cash basis no unless you want to unless you want to capitalize tax classification hearing year doesn't collect the cash on the following year he can show the expenses in that side of the year and the income on the other that's what he did if we want to bold that I don't know if we do it's right after he talks about all of the levy limit oh I see what you're saying maybe you want to bold that I will any other adjustments to the minutes of March 12th no motion to accept the March 12 minutes as amended second all in favor CAU up doing good R we have the minutes for March 18th which is held in the bolot room oh yeah I already see one but do you have any adjustments no no I'm really bad at the spelling and the English English stuff they seem to have misplaced those minutes do you mind if I skim that right now and I'm sorry I'm going to adjust this to 41 Capital C because it's not a lowercase C I use see I'm I'm sure you did um really the the person that's transposing this stuff from our meetings wouldn't know that it's a Capital C these are really good minutes these are good minutes these are actually probably two extensive but that's okay I'd rather have them too extensive than no idea what happened yes significant upgrade okay those are the ones I had found okay um we hadn't decided there wasn't a meeting then but okay we have no minutes from that date no I know we hadn't decided at that point that that meeting didn't exist so we're sort of fixing things that weren't fixed then yeah that's fair so I think we have to leave it there and then we took it off later on that's fair um it's a yep you're right oh jeez so there are three millo's last name yeah uh adding the capital c for 41c uh there's a space in a number after a comma which doesn't make any sense and Sarah was suggesting we we fixed things historically that hadn't been fixed yet yeah so all so I'm going to leave this one that's fine and you dided all this off your phone um no I had printed all these out before um uh Brian had sent us those and so then I tried to reconcile them both but this was a really fun Sunday afternoon yeah no I appreciate it cuz I was like well I don't need to do that one that one or that one or comment on that but there were a couple I didn't get as good at reconciling so do I hear a motion um motion to accept the minutes as amended second all in favor what was that March that was March 18th okay we are now up to April 1st there was no meeting oh there was a meeting it wase so I clearly forgot to put the last two weeks and minutes in my foldo I will have to look at that's okay did you have any changes yeah I did Bri and I said I clearly remembered we voted and I I sent you a noteb we voted the meeting before we didn't need to votee on that one at that time there was it wasn't there still yeah yeah why was she there's one I missed yes because we had meting we had a little bit of a question and do we want to move ahead in terms of what was happening out there I and I pushed the point and I don't recall that we had already voted to support meeting we had voted to support the the two changes back here back there and and then we had a discussion about it but we didn't decide to change anything so there's no need to take a vote right right okay so that was what I was trying to explain back to you when I sent the note said I think we're all no no that's okay you can't and I watched that other now you're going to read this one yeah thank you I went back and watched a lot of them just what the heck happened cuz I'm just I I only look when I have something on the minutes that's confusing I go okay yeah yeah thought was the voting one and that's why I asked the question earlier about how to find them on and that's when I realized I had some more work to do well well it's impossible to do a search on YouTube for them cuz it just if I put don't put in the right word it sends me someplace else it takes me off the lunberg YouTube access Channel or whatever we call it and it doesn't seem like they're all there sometimes right no they're not yeah and there are some that look like they should have been Board of assessors when you pull it up it's it's select board or something else it's like I don't know how they I don't know how they're formatted I don't know how you find them and then they all end up in the zoom someplace some of them have zoom support and others don't they aren't always Zoom they're a lot lot of them are just pack TV how do you find how do you never mind okay I'm still trying to figure that out I don't know how to find the zoom one so was this one a mess no no that was the last one I did so I didn't really spend a lot of time on grammar I'm just annoyed cuz I had printed this and I forgot it but that means you already know what they are Co something happened when you're sping here he was tired okay I didn't do it oh that's car also said that it was hard to find vision card how to read your vision card on April 1st yeah [Music] okay it won't be the new website we have a big picture of Sarah and her family with the dog with the dog just wait till you get your Christmas card little white power in it I just stack them with the rest of theing powder so what is that that's I'll bet you that's the chiller off the oh probably water here but there's no water there that's probably why it's going nuts sounds almost like a emergency thing all right so yeah we still have the January 31st meeting yeah yeah okay I had circled that that's all I have um I basically said um the question about interest in filling the position I asked that and it hadn't worked out and are we looking for a potential volunteer and re's like that's not going to work well there's more information there um and then extensive questions um Carl said it would be good to move how to read your Carl luck said it would be good to move how to read your vision card so it's easier to find yep um so I put that in there and that's it for April 1st fabulous I think I think we also said we'd move it to the splash page but I don't remember for sure second no can we can we move to the splash page I think we did okay that during that meeting but I think she must have missed it yeah that news announc on the announcement page yeah okay so people can find it easier right yeah how do you read your how do you read your property card same yes um any other adjustments did you want to make make any adjustments no that was fine with me I checked that motion to accept the minutes of April 1st as amended second all in favor I we will be current shortly oh it's so good I got uncomfortable thank you no and thank you so much for sending out the list signatures coming it got it got old uh review and appr approve invoices expense vouchers payroll billing errors Etc okay so so we've got I'm just the so we've got two invoices from Vision first one is for the 2024 update the support that's 26 3289 that one for the 2024 update yeah that that was probably the left over 2600 bucks so this is is that the class says the dates are all April 9th I'm sorry the dates on here are all April 9th this one says March 15th it's for the residential valuation commercial data entry project finalization and that I remember that was that when he sent us the oh that's what I was that when he sent us the books it could have [Applause] been so this makes sense this is like yeah I think that was that was all the work he had to put into those um is that the 24 file special yeah you made a report yeah yeah this seems like it's those reports that got delivered it may be um I'm not sure we contracted for those reports he said he always does them M okay thanks I've never seen those reports I is that the are those the books he's charg the B the books he gave us how many books and three three but but it it was dated so this was dated the n9th but it was four stuff that he did in March I think so so probably this stuff back and forth between BLS yeah okay so there are two bills one is $1,484 188 the other one is for $2,632 189 so that gets us to about 177,000 we still have been how much we contracted for I think that is the end of it okay I think so too um any more convers about that no it's just was did we didn't we ask him for an electronic version too we got a we asked we asked we did not get okay we got no response okay well if we delay that second when we're saying we still wa for the electronic version I bet you it was in the contract to it's not in the contct it wasn't required so he's going to charge us for it too what he gave us um all of those sheets that he gave us um that he sent in batches that then bound into that book he was only required to deliver those to us and an explanation of those so he fulfilled his contract there yeah the next contract we should ask for an electronic version of everything he provides as well a note to self well he did for the next five years he did he just uh he didn't compile them yeah he delivered them he gave all of those those electronic were PDFs okay but the summary document the big fat book well yes so so that it's the compilation of all that stuff he sent us yes yeah with with a brief explanation brief at the front end of it yes each chapter so if we want something more than extensive than that we actually have to Speck it out Speck it out because um that if you remember I I sent sort of a an email that said you know I appreciate all of this oral discussion after I just got it last night but I really would like a little more than this and I would like to see something written and he sent me 100 pages of what was required right which I forwarded to you yeah right that wasn't the book I like the book no that wasn't a book that wasn't the book no it was the requirement electronically yeah he he did his work oh I so I wanted to comment on the books one of the books has been placed down at the library it can be checked out by any any citizen or anybody who holds the library card can check out a copy of the 5-year revalve uh book that that Vision created for us I have one book to return I borrowed it to make sure that um everything was accurate and the how to read your vision card so we should have a book in the office no you don't I have the other one we should have a book in the office at all times we should have one that we can check out from the office okay I I took that for the conference to show but at the same time I'm I've been I can bring it back tomorrow it'll be in the office yeah so you guys Del tomorrow and and um no four four yeah it would only be six any Thursday Thursday 6 well we'll figure that out yeah no problem and uh so if you could bring that copy of the book back I'm using it for the website I'm capturing taking pictures of the pages and I'm loading them into a front reference section you gave me the 5year right you threw that in someone threw it in there and so I'm saying okay I got to I've still got more pages to go well a lot of that you have the PDFs for a lot of that stuff yeah I'm include the PDFs but not the cover page the description of what's in there okay that's what I'm that's what I'm Tuesday next Tuesday so the int next I'll give it the intention of having the three books is one goes to the library one stays in the office for our availability yeah and one can be checked out of the office if any citizen needs it so that's fine I don't think they I I have no to keep it I'm going to bring it back I suspect that it's going to become yeah Fire Starter it's that as bad as a dissertation yeah that's fair uh so do you want to do these two individually or to do them together let's put together I motion to accept the invoices from for uh this is dated um March 15 2024 and the amount of $ 14484 88 and together yes and uh the invoice dated April 9th 2024 for $2,632 189 for services provided by Vision Government Solutions for completion of our 5-year reev second any further discussion all in favor I I do we need to sign him just to note um do we need to sign him yes you need to sign um just to note that um when I bring those down to the um uh the assistant um Town accountant if I've given those to her before she lets me know because there was a lot of those invoices yeah around [Applause] good man what happened to the system P apart is that it for invoices no we have more oh lucky yes this is from MFS for the classification hearing and the review of the ATV cases totaling $1,800 okay so you know what have Sarah and then handed me and I'll get it over here then that system will again I don't want to have to reach over you it's easier to go that way right so everybody understands the classification hearing cost us 10 hours and the ATP cases cost us two for a total of 12 hours at what's the number there 18,800 15,00 bucks yeah 1 15 hour so one of the things that we've learned from this is the classification hearing next time will be done inhouse that's expensive I'm just going to do it what the hell Brian and the difference is you're buying credibility with him you're buying a supplier that's we're Beyond this Beyond reproach it's probably worth that being in account to something a contract 115 hours nothing and I'm saying that you get credibility with these guys and I think that's worth a lot for us and so I'm not a motion to accept the bill from MFS for the classification Hearing in the ATB cases dated March 10th sir moved are you seconding I'm yeah second I thought you any further discussion none all in favor I like full teeth though I'm telling you next one is for CI for the site index now for $1,400 sorry you did all the work to get it right it should have been like a 20 minute activity we have big one they don't even show ours nope it's a fixed rate flat rate I'm not motioning this I move that we accept the wrong profession but you got to remember for everyone they can build there's usually a couple of hours they can't and they have to spend that time looking for the business in order to feed this I believe we contracted with them so okay I'm sorry I believe we contracted with them they did a lot of other M it's not this is the it's not that's not the only thing you're doing so motion I thought just I move that we accept and pay that $1,00 $100 to C I'll second it for you so you don't have to thanks all in favor hi hi now there's not a lot of room to sign this thing that's just a lot of money for look at all the equipment he had to buy that printer look at all that an he's got to advertise his printers and the prins are expensive to do those big but that's true those that's true but and then all the expertise of of people did you see the big huge one we have hanging on the wall in the office that's a coup bus thank that's fair we just have one more invoice uh this is the MLS this is was Sheila's old account that I just got into so um this one's actually we can't get into it anymore until we pay this bill so I can use it my own by way of explanation we won't let the town take out a contract for this it has to be an individual's name so it was under Sheila's name in the past and now that Sheila is not in the office and this is MLS and yeah multiple listing service service and it's getting under an individual really yeah I actually changed it the password so that now we can access it but because I hasn't been paid they shut us off so I've been using my own Ms so this is is this an annual fee uh quarterly quarterly fee of $87 per quarter 90 360 so it's 355 350 I mean that's pretty reasonable compared compared to some of the other things we been said and the return on it is high this is a quarterly bill for $87 going from oh it takes us April 1st to June 30th we've been shut off for this month but once we pay it open I have mine that I'm using my own personal one but I don't get a deal like that yeah you can't be using your personal one why do you have one these guys you mogh my computer my phone $87 would we like to I move that we pay MLS $187 it's so cheap no no no okay only $87 still says Sheila Craig yeah I can't uh change her name we can't change her name no we can just change the password they won't allow us they have to actually delete that account and then set up a home yeah okay so maybe not at the same we just I thought it was kind of ODOT maybe maybe not at the same price maybe not I don't know how they do that start purchas to start off with that and that's 87 and you have to be part of a a board real estate board so sweet deal do we hear a second second all in favor I I do we have a master password book Flo around h no not supposed to it's just it's just taped to the wall that's right why would we have master pass you know we had I went to the factory and they had all these specifications on to build this pretty complex part and they had it all written on the wall and it took them a while to develop it it worked great until the painters came by true story out of Foxboro understand Internet Security that's that's scary speaking of painters yeah have my office painted you did con it's like this color good when we go in there it's the only color this has there's a clock on the wall now huge clock she's not staying late I'm not going to miss my it's time for me to go home want to miss it no well that's true are there any expense V any more invoices no more invoices we have a lot of warrants black any expense vouchers no more no nope no payroll no billing errors what are we doing about payroll yeah let me explain that all right um because I used to bring the payrolls um slips to Fila and myself and um because um I was paid out of the same account that Linda is being paid of so it's in Linda's name Linder is a cont contract person now so um Heather signs her payroll in in turn she signs mine as well but hopefully after the 1 of March I'll be a cons um um May um it'll only be U Linder on that and I might be a consultant to stay in so you're still a1099 you're a199 no she's not she's she's a contractor contractor she has a contract contract with Benefits an employee with an employee with with a contract well I didn't know they could do that but I don't know there's only certain positions you can do that yeah thank you so we may see a change after May 1st correct fabulous I get that and you're I get what she did intending to stay here for some time Linda wants Lord willing definitely we're all for that all Us in favor that hi that's great uh okay we're going to move on we're just zipping right through this room um so we have the um warrant to collect the motor vehicle excise uh commitment number two and this is the uh for 28586 and11 I have three copies one for the tax collector for our copies and the tax collector the town accountant and for i y three there so there there's a breakdown too we've done these before Oh there's a breakdown of what uh it shows you on the the pages it's got the breakdown of the how much how much we bills total bills and then the total that's 888889 for bills on that commitment why isn't it one commitment I'm just curious they different is okay thank you yeah and the registry sends the note you might get up to eight or nine commitments during a year so this one's 2024 commitment 2 feel over committed right now this one sure we haven't 24 but it doesn't say commitment to oh on the upper uh right hand corner it says it should say I got this one oh is it under the thing it's um it is you see it on there it doesn't really say which equipment is am I missing it I miss it those should be the pages that go with the number of bills and the total am Bill one says one of the pages says commitment whatever um one does oh it say right here commitment to so where's the other page and then this it then it says it here and the last page I think it's just the this is just the total that's the toal oh I you trying to tell me and I was come from mun these don't P your exam so these are I just want to make sure you get all free free copies of those so the mounts we talked about we 85,86 111 M and that's the sum of all of these yep okay um on the second page there's a place for you to sign also cuz I think that's one that the signature yeah yeah right there oh up here at the top so sign cover and the so we have six signatures we're doing across the board uh are we all favor of supporting was that did you say 200,000 200,000 yeah 200,000 285 285,000 nearly three I we I didn't hear a motion so we have to I move we sign them all that's okay motion second it did you motion it I didn't I think he was trying to but I'm TR to get vot there you're right we don't got do separ I would move you just moved it right accept commitment number two okay I'll accept commitment amount of that's 285,000 you're going to second that any discussion I discussion I we have to say I and then we have to [Laughter] sign I'm getting a stamp we actually do get stamps don't we are we getting stamps too we do I would like to have a baseball cap actually you would yeah I had one with conservation it was great C you know actually all the um I've just started the sign scammer got to embrace it which line you're signing in one right line one right okay no that just just twice not bad yeah oh it's three copies there there's no um will you fill in the date later on is that what you planning to do or there's no date on the second page put today's date have to sign the top page right second page too oh it's right there right here okay second page oh I don't know what that second page I don't care about we can write that in if you want write that in put it on sign third page the 22nd today's the 22nd at least according to the agenda don't know why I thought it I'll take one this 22nd day of April 200 thanks 24 airplanes oops okay these have three three did you sign in my space again I'm going to leave The Talk for you I don't oh I forgot to sign the second page I forgot to sign the second page is it date on that one yep dates on that one scam right now [Applause] that's actually the next okay where's the I forgot to sign that okay first one I had to get make sure thank you for keeping us on run work thank you for keeping us on task okay so we're there next next one is just one bill uh commitment 9 for 22 and that's a total of uh $ [Applause] 77.98 so this is something that was discovered over time the reg is that the one that from a couple years back or something yeah it was probably it was probably some that didn't pay it so in audit they got flagged at the registry so in audit to be able to get their license renewed or their registration renewed that have to come in and pay an old bill so that's probably what that is yep estate uh I'll CH a motion to accept this for $77.99 so moved all in favor oh I had to put them and that's the ultimate way of making sure you pay the bill when you can't drive the car yep if you walk out a f put when the police drive by and they license plate computerized license plate SC you pull over I left you the top could camera yeah it's not even legible anymore it's pretty brief I noticed getting a doctor signature finally oh good job look at that SC take that one I did oh sorry take sorry I forgot that's okay all you will take is two the ones that you gave you know if you get really W work J well the interesting thing about Sarah my initials a jtr and James initials a jtr toal you're squared that's true and we are together we get actually make a little more than one person that's really vehle yeah they can just sign comart starting to look like yours you get the second page too I'm pretty sure I did I thank you I'm trying to listen to too many things thank you check us Linda okay check let me check it please when we doing all those abatements that was the last person's job before they hand over the CJ to check anything was F out yeah okay we good what one more oh one more okay job isn't over till the paperworks done all right so this one is a motor vehicle this was the day that lus was down so I could print the 36 signes so this is the copy I got and that might have been actually the the first group that um Sue started to put in yeah and we didn't know how to do that um that page for segs so these are stapled together is this three different ones or yes the top one you just have to sign the top one on those for a an abatement of $43.32 to accept the abatement of $43 33 second oh okay all in favor actually this is the 98 baits that we oh okay back return move so you throw it Brian he throws at sah Brian over 22 and 23 you Empire management I believe estate what did you say driving the efficiency engineer nuts oh absolutely well that's okay I think it's a short drive so this is part of that 98 batement that were processed so that's a total for those all mo V were these all types meaning no those are all motive Vehicles all the mo those are all Moor Vehicles this that's good so it says 80 abatements and this says 98 abatements on here it might have been from a different year there was 98 total so you know how it it groups it 2003 2024 it might be a couple a different year one's 10,000 one's 11,000 is there two different things here yeah let me see could have been the comes out of the old right the all these abatements that were sign out of the over so yeah are we keeping track aat oh when we file we'll get a report real estate bement come out of the overlay motor vehicle do not come out of the over this well there's a total of 998 so it might have been just because it was grouped in a different batch so I got 80 here yeah that's what I thought separ when you when you stop them and you have to go back into that batch it adds to that batch so it's What's the total we're signing for 11,000 or 10,000 I would think it would be 11,000 11,000 11,000 okay y that and we need all three three of those signed just the top page of all three yeah uh motion AC the 98 ofat for motor vehicle excise in the amount of $111,000 11,2 $1,283 I that is but this is second the total the total I I unfortunately I don't know enough about me to so it doesn't and I I accept what L is saying but it just seem doesn't if we're in charge of Taxation in terms of the vehicle or sort of sort of and we're in charge of doing the houses and we're in charge of getting the abayance I why wouldn't we be we don't generate the Vehicle accise Tax St do state does so I think we're not liable for it there a total of of the state sorry I gave is that what happen just in case just in case it just seems like that's kind but I think it's not we're not responsible for the valuation of that so I think correct maybe that's why it's not that would not yeah well cars are valued by the um the registry of deeds based on the actual sticker price and they collect the state collects the money and the ex tax remember the to the town excise tax money comes to the town it goes in the general fund all goes general fund versus not oh huh that's interest that's but we don't set the value so we don't Abate the value right right okay we can't even contest the values right right we just handle do you remember what the rates are 104 the year before is 90% or 50% 0% yeah that's I tell you my camper I got scous rich going to get cuz the year before he only PID 50% for this year don't not don't tell anybody and I said we can tell them in the business it's based on all excited about it though scker price that the dealership the next one the real estate Empire storm they yeah estate oh Empire storm Empire empire storm and the other one I believe um Empire management abatements um these are abatements real estate abatements we shouldn't be talking about these till after right no that's from what 23 those those are their um settlement amounts I know we not talk about them until we do that in executive session well we're not I prefer to talk i' prefer to talk about these in executive session all right all right how's that just that way we don't run a foul of anybody that's a good point that's a good point now yeah there other people looking yeah keep those once we once they're approved they become public record yeah but not until they're approved we haven't approved them yet so yeah you actually here oh when we when we talk talked about what the appropriate settlement was back when in you approved them this is for the settlement for them withdrawing that I I re I remember that recall my my concern no these auor them they were at ATV we've come to a settlement okay and this is the settlement and this is just the okay I think we've already approved that so right it's so okay and then we approve Nate to Goin for us is that what we do too how do we know no that's something different different that's not yeah that's something different I wonder how these flows work oh so this includes the the the ones that we' already approved here EMP got it got now there are four did I do that again she just likes to print tell me what I should have here don't give me anything more than need sign three copies make it show your your on you wanted a copy for yourself for the to don't look at look at the abat abat I know I know just so the abatement total is $ 8,672 195 and we' already aged to so moved accept it yes okay all in favor I so why do you make too many copies never can have enough start here you start here know when you're going to lose one you don't i' rather have more than well I forgot my cop is today do you sign any the black Pages just the top page okay three times hold here go or not okay [Applause] St that's it you're not allow to drink water right now supposed to collect all the paper that's it no more to sign yeah we're done restroom another check mark hey did air have the same kind of volume or anything like that similar volume see we did really even that you B air is like 67,000 folks right yeah we had but we had our first commitment of the year was always big uhhuh yeah this second commitment is talking talking about probably 6,000 on the first commitment of M probably talking about over 6,000 Bill oh sure yeah well a lot of people have two cars so first one's always really big if they're 5500 Parcels probably 4500 of houses or something like that and if that's that says 6,000 that' be a car and a half per per household and then we do some more through the year because of course um the next it on our agenda is the review the revisions to the how to read your vision card okay this is short and sweet um look for the gray stuff is it May 16th it's that it's the one okay May 16th you steal my copy where I just Buri May 16th May 16 it was over there it looks like this got May 16th that's all he needed to change except for the bottom where is May 16th oh page two there's three May 1 that need to be converted to May 16 and then the bottom says 422 24 2024 I had the date right earlier did I yeah and you got the 34 that's and that's what we have in the new website is a 34 so I'll upload this update it to 422 okay um and I if it's okay with you I will update it I'll make it a PDF and I will send it to car tomorrow and ask her to post it on what is it called the splash page sure okay yeah is the splash are we calling it we're calling it something else but we can change the name I'm don't be mad at me now why would be many I'm thinking would it make sense to put a table of contents in here because there are so many things that you could find it a lot faster if there was a if there was no I want I want actually people to have to read the whole thing you're mean you're terrible it's not that long right I mean this is like the absolute Basics oh I understand and um if they don't if they skip past the introduction they're going to go but wait right what's this SL how come my taxes don't reflect the current value of the house this year mhm that will be your frequently Asked question I want them to read it no I'm not making a people accountant sorry Jack your project remember you asked me what how are we going to work this project stuff I said you own the project yep you charge ahead and just go with it um so I will just make those three modifications if everybody's okay with that and I will send it over to car a post on the I don't think it requires a vote one other what okay and you're not in here yet we were talking about potentially putting in a bits in into the property cards because they aren't there yet and there is space private notes private notes so the aat will never be available so that when person gets their property records and looks it up they can't tell whether or not the abatements in enforced it'll that Happ to me it just say the year and it was an batement but it's mostly in a background thing okay so a batement granted and then a batement granted and um with the DAT that's about it but the rest of it is private information okay so would we want to say something like that and how to read your card if you have any questions where they're not the people are not going to look that on their cards ah okay I'm going to beg with you slightly in that I had the abatement given as you know about eight 10 years ago I was unaware that had gone away you know been lost been is for one year and it really didn't go away we changed systems yeah right the systems were act them and well I I can certainly add at the very end right after here abatements are not on the public card you have to go into the assessor's office sure something like that something like thaty enough to and that way cuz we didn't know that we've been paying taxes all those other years because it been lost and we were paying the extras and that's when you came in and oh no that's when Nate or you you you we had a couple business different business you you're garage building out back was being taxed as the second home and was only for a couple of years was it okay that was um I believe on one change or something one of the losses one one of the other assessors that and then we had CED it as a second house right and then well there was a coding that also said that we were not you know we weren't on Waterfront and that was what the abatement for the whole street was eight years before and then we had to go back and get it again but it probably got lost I don't know about that cuz that was a different system in that right and we didn't know we had lost it and so that's why I'm saying okay shouldn't we be having referencing that there were baits at least giving un certain dates and if they want to go find them out now is your card does do your cards because I know you have two properties accurately reflect your properties today right now they do well then yeah you're fine I just understand why it's not it's not it's not abatement it's just the factors on your property so you don't care about abatements for yours no no no I do I do I just asked if your card was right the card shows my address correctly but I don't care about the address the when we had the property maps originally designed they showed us being Waterfront and which we aren't we are not we on the other side of a very busy street we are not actually the maps show the street going through one par one cored corrected one finally came back and but right now but you you site index is not one 1 a or 1 B it's three isn't it that's correct it is the main property okay and as long as that's correct and I know what that is from the card okay again it has it really has nothing to do with an abatement right now your property cards January first yeah I always tell people check your property card and check to make sure you're on right location asked them several times to check the property cards we've been asking them since April so they can check anytime they come to the office they get a property card here's what I'm going to add a note on previous year abatements abatements are not publicly available on your vision card you can however view the notes on previous abatements on the private record card held in the assessor's office sure okay problem is nobody's ever used that field though so they're not going to be able to see check so in the I just leave it off because nobody has ever kept that field up Vision does not have all the abatement information in it okay so I'm just going to not do this okay so if we go and do we code a guy 13 you're talking about land use codes that's useless what's useless land is that on your property card yes of course yeah okay so it's useless land and so where it's not useless you want to learn how to read your vision card one yeah I know I've read it but is that was it 132 you you 132 is unbuildable land right you're a little lot across the street okay but I thought then there was one hearing we had where there was a differentiation one was useless land and there's no such thing as useless somehow the term come up in okay I said undevelopable there's there's um the primary site and then there's excess land right and then there's unbuildable land then there's potentially developable land they're all different land so the 137 is UN 137 is UN 132 132 is unbuildable land correct okay CU it doesn't me yeah even though it's part of okay okay well it's a separate part I'm not adding it's part of the same parcel no it's separate parcel there's a street that on his throat oh okay on your you've had an abatement last year and he was wondering why all of a sudden his land is worth more than mine and he had he had petitioned that this is this is the fellow that had the big wall right between his house that he couldn't use the land above it and besides it was all rock and I went out and bought a an EAS a rate of use encourage them to file an abatement yeah I did because I did like I don't know the context of that case you're talking about I to talk about we're we're we're really getting into the that's a good point I forgot thank you sir thank you thank you thank you yeah [Applause] okay thank you I would move we accept this as is we with the exception I don't think this need to take a vote oh okay do you think we need a vote I actually I like the theory that uh this is a separate project and and why we vote on everything but at the same time this is going to keep modifying I'm doing a mod a minor modification of the date yeah based on the tax everything else was accepted we no need to okay this isely merely making it current andur I said here you you know hey Sarah when you're done can you send me over your latest yep okay you I didn't hear I'm sorry and so that way I can load that up on on side yeah email this to Cara and you and everybody tomorrow and put it on page all right what's next status of the roll out of the website improvements was just the status when is it going to happen status it isn't okay first of all I'm I'm fighting for extremely valuable extremely good resource for the town my meeting today didn't come off because either I screwed up but I thought we had said we were going to meet it uh today at 10:00 she came back and wrote I wrote to her she go no I can't I'm way too busy I'm going to try and meet with her on Thursday the prior week the meeting how we do it is we do spreadsheets and we give them in this case if you see it in pencil that was last week's meeting and these are this is reference sources in terms of what we want to add and when change we provide support documents to it okay I know you're looking for an easy answer no I'm looking for a summary okay the summary is that if I can get to carara and get uh from what I've seen off the site so far she's loading it but she's not totally she's always lagged behind so uh when carara sees these other tweaks that I've seen I expect have them done in a short week the thing is I'm more concerned about you guys and that I need a couple more things out of you and one the two of them is uh you know the work breakdown and you don't have to have it but we're going to just keep it under construction and the other part is just a little bit of an or jart not a problem so then I would ask that you guys seriously when we're ready to go take a look at it because right now it's kind of difficult to use you you're in a temporary site and some of these take us back to existing sites that are in the existing files right once you get in there you have to start all over again and go find the site the new new regular site it's okay I'm not explaining this well cuz you're all looking at me no I I know exactly what you're talking about because I did it and when I went in to the sandbox I'll call it the sandbox from my short hand when I went to the sandbox and then I clicked on something it took me back out of the sandbox so I realized I had to go back into the sandbox to see other stuff in the sandbox cuz that's all you're staring to tell me yeah so so that be ready for that that's the only frustration and um just are we looking at end of this month yeah that's what I'm shooting for okay and I was hoping that perhaps we could get a work session because we're kind of light on the meeting head where we could go over all of it cuz you've got remember you've got lots of other stuff buried in there and I I we we're going through the simplification process we you know you dump you throw everything in right and you move stuff around and you say I think I got it then you go back and step back say it doesn't really fit and flow in the right order and so that's where we are right now I hope to have that stuff ready I hope as long as I don't get anything else going on in my life uh to be go going in there where you'll see most of the stuff you'll see some of it in the toolbx but everything else at the top end with the exception of a couple small things should be clean and then we can upload it we also want to do a test on it when it goes live we got to go beat the heck out of it just to make sure that all the links haven't broken during the transition and things are continuously moving and as Sarah says it's never done it's never done so so to answer your question I thought I would be ready by the middle of April was not that now and I'm shooting to have that all done before we go to town meeting for sure fabulous that's the target and uh great update never I'll be so happy when this sucker is over you it's never over when when thing can you ask Cara if she'll take off the only abatement application the year because it's that still shows the wrong yeah there's there's two there's two abatement applications up there and they're both they they're duplicates the state comes back and says oh do you want an abatement on this or a baitman on your car or your baitman on real property and we have at two locations so we got to clean that up a little bit too so yeah the date should be left blank left blank for the real estate now she we're going to the state site so if the state site is blank then I'm okay if not we have to go up and create our own and create the site the form doesn't change though the form doesn't form doesn't change never Chang they safe they a blank date okay and that was a question do we want to repeat it twice just in case they don't spot it yeah go ahead doesn't cost us anything so a few bits out in the cloud yeah yeah so yeah and this this part of the map transitions from that to that we have a we do have a little bit of a that's why we use big maps and like I said I lost the meeting this week now nobody can see you oh here here you go okay so that's where we are and it's taking me longer because there more than I ever imagined I wouldn't have signed up for this goddamn project honestly big job but thank you no no it's going to work and uh yeah so we're looking for May 1st May yes please God progress of developing the frequently asked questions from citizens questions we have that list of citizens questions from yeah and I've got a I've got a partial list and of my own that Creed but just of frequently asked questions but uh it's in here it's in here it's going to show oh yeah it's going to show the fa moved on from the website though okay is facts but we'll be using them we'll be using this stuff I just wanted uh I haven't had a chance to sit down and try to write any answers to anything and we have to decide which things we want to forward on to our consultants for some answers um and when we can do that right so whatever whatever questions we can answer inous I'd like to get a answer to inh house let's just do that is our is our principal assessor qualified well you know I we can answer that one fairly quickly couldn't get hired without it but that's fine um so we should go just a when we get a chance to go back down through this list and send them over and I'll throw them up and but we have we have the we have the questions we just need to get answers so do you have to get you just write in in process under construction just do the construction is that why people won't keep asking the same questions Maybe and I got an interesting question from friends and they said Hey how do I tell what the assess values were for 22 and 23 Guess What on your card read your vision card no no they're neighbors they want to see what everybody else is doing and guess what we're not in any for those two files that are up we're not in Street order at all it's kind of a mish Masher it's not you know there's a whole database right you database 22 and 23 I know I have 20 you typ the person's vision card their their name or their address and their vision card pops up in the assessment I can see your vision card the 23 old I know I can go how I do so if somebody's curious about their neighbor vision card they can go look the in value is not there that's true yeah and they want they want to see who's on their street value not there yeah what's this value on the street how about this person that got us I'm saying right now all I can tell them is that I know I got the 24 one but I don't know about the others and I would just go in and look at what it go to your GIS site pull that down it will be on your on that their property card you can see your property you can see everybody's property they're looking for easy ways to do comparisons no but the point of it is the 22 uh 22 and 23 so the spreadsheet that I put together has the is on there the 23 that inum is not there that's on the spreadsheet that I put together that's out there at the website that is on anybody needs to look for it they can look for it there in fact you can put a pointer to that that'd be fabulous well so a lot of times we're thinking that here click here and it'll take you but we're not there yet don't the data is out there it's there somebody wants to click there they can go find it they just have to do the work what it doesn't do is if they want to look at some one property and then they go it doesn't link to the other spreadsheet where the other data is so and that's not going to happen not soon in my lifetime the fact it's only because I I I can't if they would like to raise their taxes to pay for that kind of um no this is all this is volunteer right we don't cost anything no well the question what what they want is like yeah what Vision has is a database to instantly pull everything up um and that is not Municipal Services right they just need to get their head around that okay I'm not worried that I won't be able to answer I'm just going to say go look or something but uh then there's assessed values for the past three years and I don't understand why she didn't do that but who didn't do that I can't use names they they're friendly people that are scared to death right now all they have to do is just them to call the a I have and I think she has no but there's compounding factors the compounding factors are my taxes are going up there's worry she's worried to death about what's going to happen in the override and she's now worried about a water bill Okay so I can't for the assessor's office for the assessor's office she can go to the Assessor's Database she can type in her last name yeah and it will pull up her vision card give her that thing that says how to read your vision card because it shows each one of the years of her house MH um I think starting in 2021 2021 2022 2023 and 2024 we can't predict next year because we have to go through the previous sales right we can't oh I agree we can't forecast that so that a conversation to have with your friend yeah right I I just this is more of a handholding it's going to be okay kind of a question well you I I I would caution you not to guarantee that everything I guarantee you can't you don't know what the numbers are going to be you don't know what the water bill is going to be and all those other things you can't do that for them I'm sorry nothing to do with the water oh I know and the and honestly we can't control angst we can't control sales right we can predict we can't control sales numbers right I agree they're going to be what they're going to be going to be I agree okay so next thank you what oh you're on the agenda are you you have something else no I think I I have few others well few others what items on the agenda oh yeah no okay okay I I thought you trying I thought want to beat it to death okay frequently asked questions so we should probably each one of us sit down and try to figure out how to how to write how to address those frequently asked questions okay and I don't know if we want to distribute them Reena might have a suggestion yeah just go to somebody on one other towns how to frequently ask questions pull it off and put it on our site well almost every town has them I yeah think that's true yeah and I don't want to go out of order never mind well I have sorry this is good discipline PR you're good you're good we the next item on the agenda is the status of the five-year reval including the nine DLS directives that we have oh yeah those you should have each gotten a copy I think I forwarded it to you of the nine directives and I had this in two different formats which is kind of funny I saw that I read that Cy cyclical reinspection do we need to do something to address that I think it's just going to happen we we we sign no we are processing a contract to try to get somebody do that there RFP there is an RFP so it's going to be addressed through the through the RFP I don't think we have to do anything about the cical reinspection I also have an answer that terms of what else we're doing we're keeping metrics on it with regard to how many do we do how many anticipate how many would do in how many would that year yeah and then that'll the numbers will speak for themselves right that shows your prog M right yeah thank you um one of the items was income and expense data that is something in a is this something they put in everybody's everybody gets that you have to do a better job on getting back your income and expense statements every Community I know of gets that same director right so is there something we can actively do to address that probably not no we we mailed them all out and we can't you know make them mail them back well we do we track how many we've mailed and how many have outstanding of course we do we have a list hold on are you playing with me or is it no no well of course we we know how many we mail out and we know how so that could be one of our operation metrics right just a monthly summary guess put throw a dart on the wall but you can't do a monthly summary because they're only going out once a year well then you you say I send out 800 in January and then you just show how many have come back over X period of Time how many are outstanding and uh and you get okay yeah okay in my free time we got another person coming right tell me that don't me that the data person no no it's not been approved yet it's not in the budget I thought was on it's in the preliminary budget from the town manager yeah it is but but it's got to go through town meeting it's got to be approved and then we can't hire anybody till July 1 I thought that got cut from the budget I heard well you know maybe I I I thought that was it did not okay to the best of my knowledge did not either that are we outsourc the last time I had a conversation with the town manager it was still in the budget and that's what she told us at the I don't want to argue about it because I I don't remember but I I thought I heard that come out and something else got put in at us left meeting but I um I did not take notes and I fell asleep wow it's like being here no the jokes are too good here is anybody there nobody still nobody there that's good it's being recorded though that's allor right it'll come uh neighborhood review we talked about potentially putting together a subcommittee to do a neighborhood review and we had some proposals for how we might make that subcommittee work um who would be a member of it I think we should I thought we volunteered Sarah I think we should formally create that that that group and what it is and and what we want from them when when we want it and who we want to participate yeah I believe we have at least two people here at the table who have said that they would like to participate uh which I think is great thank you thank you thank you um so we should probably write up a little formal thing that says here's what this committee is going to be doing here's how it's going to be constituted and here's when we would like to see something back because sooner is better than later if we can get it in there before we redo everything next year be great is I can um neighborhood Maps is that what you're doing I can write no well noite indexes you're redefining site indexes yeah okay and today we have three site indexes for for Lakes right well two of them are dumb yeah it's it really should be an adjustment fa a site adjustment Factor instead of an A or a B precisely precisely like what we're doing with our neighborhoods right now are basically our neighborhoods are standing this is a sight adjustment okay well it seems on the lakes on the lakes and then everywhere else is three we have we have we have one neighborhood that is three and a million million people in three and then we have you know a few in some other neighborhoods but so like so it needs to be revised so people who are next to main roads are a three if you're near another road it's a three if you're a nice quiet Dead End Road you're a three three it's a three and if you're right on top of a conservation era it's still a three that's right yeah you got it so there's there's to sort through yeah the point is we need to articulate what we want and uh since when's our next meeting we'll be talking about that later but right now I'm trying to see if I could make a draft it's tentatively May 6th but we'll talk about that in a minute oh 20 minutes half hour two hours whatever it is uh do we want to figure this out now or do we want somebody to write a draft and dissect I would like personally I would like to have a draft that we could then modify me too so I think that works better um would you Sarah would like to volunteer volunteer you can Target May 6th and if you can't make it we can do it for May 20th okay recognize when town meeting is is the fourth and then we have election there after but that's okay well well maybe somebody be right in I yeah maybe so the neighborhood review I'm going to put on the agenda for next time and if you get it done great if you don't get it done we'll just say postponed until the 20 I will see I I will I will work as expeditiously as I can and and you know all the things I need to be addressed I mean it's it's pretty pretty straightforward that we really want to use factors we don't want to use neighborhoods to Define po well it it's just very hard to do and and get the right num the numbers that we you're supposed to have for neighborhoods right I I would think somebody else has done this already too yeah must I look into it yeah there you go that's why it might take me longer than May 6th yeah bench parket it's going to take you longer than May 6th I know we just put on the agenda for may6 so we get an update on how much progress you but you know like if it's not on there you know it's not going to happen so it'll be on there everybody needs a deadline land schedules what are we going to do about land schedules I have an idea on the land that's DLS thing it's one of our directives it does by the way these directives are for five years right so they don't all have to be so the land schedule gets done at the 5year reil right and I don't know why it's on here as a specific item does it ever get adjusted during 5 years interim adjustments yes you mean the land curve C schedules right no no what are land schedules versus land curves the land schedule is usually um your pricing of the different neighborhoods that's on a land schedule so I'll read the whole thing to all all of us okay L the assessors should review land values and adjust the land valuation system as needed in a uniform and Equitable manner sales of water influenced parcels and parcels with view adjustments must be monitored annually to support all land values and adjustments so that sort of ties into what we need to do with neighborhoods but right sort of sort of a condition Factor should be reviewed to make sure these are applied consistently reasons are noted and supported with the market sale data assessors need to review their pricing of unbuildable waterfront properties so a lot of that does get into our neighborhood discussion too it is really closely related and I I didn't want to just throw that on the neighborhood team we can put that there but maybe in um the um backland mhm um that was just adjusted for the first time um Vision adjusted that it went up to $88,000 for the excess land that hadn't been adjusted for probably about five six years so it's it's not longer so the back would be considered anybody anything over 2 Acres then goes beyond that if becomeing backland access or if it could be has to be always two acres or apply depends on which residence Zone if your zone is one acre if your zone is two acres it's just based upon your zoning zoning and if you're 800 square ft of land usable land and the rest is that but they you to stick it on no if you're you're at zoning yeah you're at out of zoning you're at zoning if if you're if you're in the 80,000 rightt so let's say I have 88,000 right Square ft 880,000 is going to be the zoning and then 8,000 will be the okay okay right right okay so if we can pey back those two that would be really good I really want to focus the effort on revising the neighborhoods but the other piece needs to be done well the problem is the conditions virtually the same time neighborhood so is that even a year that seems like seems like what it just seems like a really it could be big big project and it might not you might utilize a team who will let point of having a team we're having a neighborhood team neighborhood team but we may change their charge a little bit so that it includes both of these and Let Them Fight The Battle For You cu no it's yeah let them understand the problem and fix it so yeah it's not a battle it's going to be soon as you say be tax well that's Massachusetts does not allow view tax I know New Hampshire does but Massachusetts does not allow a view tax right yeah you can have a site index that says um yes lake front and Lake View yes but that's not a view Tex yes okay when totally different it's when you differentiate it that way yes okay I got it do they have do they have uh living on busy roads that's a condition that's a condition that would be a condition then a special characteris within a neighborhood probably yeah yeah okay that's what that's what when we were building that the how to readu vision card I I and that's what I was asking Mike Terell about like what what are our conditions and we don't really have any we have the neighborhoods right which so it' be both but in the um that data collection manual that I put together are con and we could utilize those because those are in general for most communities you live on a busy street if you live on a dead end that's how you're going to have to set then you fire roads the whole fire my street busy could be no not really I was disappointed that we don't it lot of truck traffic but yeah that didn't get in there we Prim discovers you a shortcut yeah well it takes here of the fire roads do we automatically differentiate the fire roads already in terms of valuation no no no no because the sales did not prove that that fire roads some of them right they're all lakes well fire roads don't degrade the value of the property right yeah so for sales for sales it doesn't hold h no no so if that's the case then not a factor doesn't need to factor in or you factor it the same way you would anything else you just put that it's a factor of if if you would recognize it you I've got a one lane dirt road there's no differentiation in the sales on fire roads or Not on Fire roads so it doesn't make sense not fact it doesn't make sense to factor it somebody might think oh well maybe I can get a good deal cuz I'm on a fire road but if the sales are not showing that's not Valu agree I totally agree but you classify him just guess what it's the same number you know at Fire Road it's the same number until we start seeing data will not allow you to get into when um when I first went to work in gron I had 26 neighborhoods do came in and said no um you know that's way too many you're you're taken aart you'll never make it too much minim you can't make we have eight today I think Eight's about as many as I want yeah cuz you can you can but what some of our neighbors have 10 no so we're getting into what the committee needs to work I like that good job personal property second homes we're good with that what does that mean good with that well if it's on here something we need to address but over the next 5 years well with correct a lot of those by putting them in as camps yes and although we miss some CU there'll be a couple of abatements on a few that'll be camps now that we didn't know where camps right at and um so you know that that's pretty so if we were to put an action next this one what what they did not like um that state the state okay um Scott cant tangelo when he called me and said um he didn't like the fact that a lot of some of those properties around the lake had adjustments on them that we couldn't we didn't know why cuz they've been on there for years and some of them might have been for too some of them might have been he said those have to be he said I'm not going to tell you to take them off this year I said please don't because we've had enough issues and he said those are are things that need to be addressed in the future if they're on there they have to be proven and they have to be um put on the card while they're there support them with evidence all right what about apartments well on no hold on apartments you've got a house someone's got a garage you put a garage you put an apartment over the garage is that a considered a second or is that part because it's on the same parcel it's the same that's zing has nothing to do with us that's that's the building that's so when we put an appraisal on on the second building that is an apartment right how do we treat that if it's if it's like an apartment over a garage treat it as um Second full living space okay but all that is really comes into zoning it has to be all approved by the building inspector we're not in charge of zoning okay and so I just wondering so we just it's like a finish some sort of extra finish space and is it this at the same per square footage rate if it's finished yeah if it's living area okay you might have a garage downstairs at a lower right and then somebody might have finished space above theage in this case it's a separate where would be a separate building okay it'd be the same we don't care we just add it in you've got this much your house is this and then youve you got this little building and an accessory dwelling unit what say is it an accessory dwelling unit is that where it is it would be but it's still it's still it's still part of that one parcel that parcel yeah so it's not sep it's the second floor living space yeah okay I like that that's were saying yeah okay so this one's under control is sales verifications I mean that's just something we we do that anyway so we we are now no we've always sent out sales verification L yes we have CJ told me he was I don't care ancient history okay okay always I know Sheila cuz I've got the back Sheila has always gotten the deeds and sent out sales verification I'm sorry I take that back because he I think he said do we ever go out to do a site confirmation after the sale and do you chase post sales information and he said no I don't have the time we're doing that now we do it Chase Sales don't use I don't want to go back and try to do history I can't fix what happened back then so let's just make sure we're doing it now and we are doing it now so the experion Chase and Sals that's a big no no don't even use that expression it's bad it has connotations that yeah so what does that mean I I don't I'm sorry I chasing sales what's the matter with that nothing starts until you have a sale we follow up on sales yeah that's more follow up don't say chasing because that's that's somebody changing the um codes on them to try to make it fit oh that's what that means in this world okay it's different CU why my company I was always chasing sales yeah engineer that's different from real EST that's how we stayed alive okay okay that's a bad term to use in this in this case thank you I didn't know I didn't know other directives interim year adjustments we we do those any working that okay uh that's based on you know if you need interm adjustments as evidence by accepted Mass appraisal methodologies we're we're using all that stuff so that's other directives this is a different one all classified chapter land should be expected in the field we've done that to some degree I we going to do that more of that though right that was um that was a suggestion that um I had made to Rich um not so much your your forestry cuz they have a forest management plan not your chapter 61 because you know they have to um fill in what they've sold whether it's hey the problem that comes in is 61b yep open and natural state people use there's an awful lot of them here in this community yes there are were given that and that was one of the things Rich used to like to do was go out and inspect the 61 BS to see if they were used cuz you can't mow them right you're not supposed to have activities on you can't park your truck on it or all your Tru be left in an open Natural State and that might be something um down the road that the do really once looked into because it's been misused these directives for the next 5 years so we don't have to address it right now right but 61 what was that 61b 61 B yeah open SP okay there was somebody oh never mind I had a conversation with somebody about that I said you have 61b on your property oh yeah I said are you using it for anything well oh crap yeah I want to know yeah oh and you know with our new software we could actually Zoom right in there no hey look we are we could be doing that pretty easily huh they're using it the dve oil from oil changes no if it was real time we could do that yeah uh and the other directive was turn to map any and all open positions at the assessor office and the board of sess should be filled as soon as the town can locate qualified thank you but we have that's what we're doing and I know how she's doing it now those are our directives some of them will be addressed immediately and some will be longer okay you keeping score brain is that your score sheet yep well in terms of the are you keeping track of all not in terms of our items to be done by uh do how the dires dires these are for the directives so we going to have a little wall chart or something up there that says what I was thinking about doing was just going through these and just putting summaries after them yeah or something in there dress it up it up make it and put it on the wall that way people know why we're doing it yep we're going to need more walls can you put don't more walls well they're painted now we can write on them oh that's right yeah I don't think she wants wall a written n written n no no right wa till douy gets in there douge oh no douge draws pctures and I hang them yeah yeah uh elot I don't know how to this was one that you asked for uh lessons and potential solutions from the 23 experience oh the one that got the other thing got me now talking to the lawyer too but okay uh were these what I had done is I was saying to myself you know what history repeats itself and therefore I should go back and learn some more go back and look at that town meeting we had where everybody wanted to hang hang all the board of assessors and everybody else out there that was this was back what was it January of 22 is that what I want Ed in your mind yeah so anyway I did go back and I wish I put my glasses 23 23 23 I created a list of things and actually I sent them to you right and I sent them to you under the Guides of a white paper which will save for that next topic and well it's not our next topic well it's in a later topic and I show we get to all this I don't know if we do so anyway what I did R you guys is I made a little I created some an observation list it's nothing formal it's not even dated it just starts off with history repeats itself sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry and uh I I try to look back at what they were saying so when you do your address to the town meeting board of you know that you can say we've done these and maybe you cite some of the things that we have done uh but I went back and looked at the boa uh tax Gathering and wanted to try a better understand it Lake people that showed up at that meeting represented 90 I counted them actually represented 90% of those in attendance with about 400 lake houses so and I was hoping to get you to focus in on sorry to focus in on what are the lessons and what Solutions do you have here okay I do you have lessons and solutions here or not I did not pose Solutions I just C I threw observations out and I thought we might have a conversation with regard to uh those like Fire Road valuations came into question that's like halfway now we have an answer for that the board later read to push a baitman emissions back uh the date of the back date of a month that would that caused some confusion and people weren't sure uh I guess the second level of concern was the Assessor's lack of process in green some people accused thus of not having and how would you do it where there were some citizens question whether they could file an abatement and make changes after the filing and we clarified that and I think we' we said once you get the abatement in you can make modifications and changes to it and perhaps we include that in the next one uh they we challenged the validity of the sample size and they weren't some real good answers there in fact Nate came back and fixed that uh I suggestion made we go back back to the days of Outsourcing with rrg is that what it was one of those comments yeah the worst company we ever having this yeah well we only have 30 something years yeah they just said that Outsourcing and the fact of it is we're doing a quasi Outsourcing no uh really we are we we've done uh Nate and we've done uh but R was one company that was only one in this community for 26 years we are hiring consults this this yeah saying something but we're coming up with some sort of h no one's suggesting we hired rrg they said why don't we go back to Outsourcing that's where they didn't they didn't explicitly say rrg or anybody like that yeah it was said was it did she say that did she say okay and then there were concerns about shrinking property sizes as well as some being out and out wrong the property cards were telling her to do that there were a couple of comments with regard to land curves and rounding on rounding up on property sizes these are my comments you're you're recounting a whole bunch of historical stuff observations right but what we really need to do is look forward let's what do we learn from that and what can we do what kind of solutions can we have what do we learn from this so I I don't know we can we can recount history we all know what happened we were there or or on the sidelines and so when you're going through your exercise of pointing out the progress we've made in the town I would grab some of those frustrations and say this is what we're doing on it that's all I think you better let it die going through it well no if if there's something I would really like to have something we learned from the process last time what happened last time and what do we learn and what what can we do that's going to be different and so this is a whole bunch of stuff that happened but doesn't say what we learned what did we learned and I don't know how to I don't know how to make this into an action this was okay two different parts we can take them apart and say this is what we've done and the other part of it was the I I'm playing with this concept of the white paper put it out there they already see it and I love Sarah your comment was brilliant you said you I've sent it to you I sent it to you and now it's causing you to spend time thinking about it and perhaps even after writing up stuff no but you couldn't answer you couldn't respond well here's the thing um this is a recounting of what happened mhm there's there's stuff like speculation we will likely see this we will likely need external inspection um those are that's speculative and it's not it's not based on a review of what we've done this year in my opinion it's a it's right it's looking at what happened in 2023 not um what we've been doing this year um we did a 5-year revil we had um data that we put before the entire town that we reviewed in public meeting that we a lot of us went through carefully to make sure it was in the percentile um that we made sure that it was in neighborhoods we made sure that um there were enough sales we made sure things were qualified those are the kinds of things that prevent the history repeating right um and I I I find this to be a summary of that video and the previous experience and concerned that we will repeat what's what happened but uh it's it's not Apples to Apples it's not and I agree with it it's not so I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to see you know when I when I was reading this I was like I'm reading this I'm reading this and I see just a lot of fear and a lot of concern but nothing that I can do with it and that's what expressed and I'm I'm very uncomfortable when it comes to an end with like Let's cross our fingers to be forewarned is forearmed for what okay we have if you were look at the same kind of right now we have a large base of groups that sustained a pretty significant hit we've got the condos who saw a 40% hit right are we are we addressing those things or are we going to learn from this in anticipation of trying to answer that question with regard the condos got a big hit because in the past three years you didn't have the sales to adjust them so do we have that's answer yeah that's the answer I'm saying so and and that came up at the meeting with Mike trell that's right that was addressed so how many people you think watch that meeting with Mike Terell so that's different you're you're concern is you can't force feed people people aren't in tune with what's going on and they're just going to come and and yell that's a different thing than being concerned about history repeating that is thinking about an uninformed mhm citizen that's different than thinking history and they're going to it's not there there's no reason for me to believe right now and I tried to make a couple calls today but I'm I'm way behind in everything and I'm saying okay what's happening with some groups that are pretty up upset right now and the thing of it is like in the case of the condos uh they're sitting on the water they're all associated with no no no they are cuz there's only one or two condo associations on the water the rest or not okay but I'm saying you've got a group that you you don't want me to say this no no hey Jack I've only been here a month and I know everything that happened but I can tell you one thing every day I pick up that phone and I'm not seeing many angry people and I take the time we look up their bills we look at their assessments and we talk to them on the phone and we explain things but we're not getting angry people because we take the time we go through was a have the data we have a support there was a condo owner in today and when she found out that the third quarter was a ketchup Bill and that wasn't her bill going forward and that the condos hadn't been adjusted she said okay I'm fine with that and we're in shape and I'm going to confirm to you that from what I've heard just you know I I when did I write that back a month a month and a half ago uh that essentially I I'm hearing that I know some people are planning on filing de bment but just because they plan doesn't necessarily me they take action there's been no action committees established that I know of right now or maybe they're not going to tell me that they're going to try and do something but I think that we've answered a lot of these things and we should remind people take that opportunity to remind people and be a little preventive and preemptive and saying this is what we get going and and along those lines and that was the intent of it that was that part of it the other part of it was to get a way of white making a white paper work so I wrote that and I sent to you folks and you Sarah and I and I I absolutely loved your response I just I think I have a different opinion about a white paper okay go ahead um when when I look at a white paper I want to see a written article that um documents something um factually MH and then that's it yeah I I attempted to as much as I could from that I also went out and looked at definitions and uh basically who says what I then went I went that mean who says what that means nothing to me I don't know what you mean okay what are you trying to say if I read at Wikipedia if I read wik edia it says one thing with regard to uh a white paper and if I go and and then I go and read what the state rules are the state rules are different and as explained to me by Adam they're not the same but I I I also I don't really want to argue about a white paper I I want to get it I don't know I I count Costa Costa Adam Costa talk the lawyer I really would like to know what you are hoping for with this that's what I've been asking actually that's trying to ask not very CL okay if you I went back and after I believe I sent to you to me it's just a lot of information without okay I sent to you and said these are the what the definitions are and I fact I even went up and created a definition sheet and I sent to you I I used uh Gemini AI to help create the argument and I sent that over to you and I know you I believe you took it to Heather and Adam I took it I took it through Heather to Adam to Adam okay and Adam was as he read it said very clearly to me that's not a white paper that is an that is an opinion piece it's full of opinion I think I believe this is what I want this is what I this is my idea and all of that stuff made it not a white paper two things about a white paper and I don't really want to go we were going to talk about white paper later on I guess we're going to do now okay so any two things about white paper it should be a recognized expert in an area I'm not sure any of us are recognized experts in an area no I'm not sure that that that that's the case um but the the bottom line is the state department of what is it open meetings it's not called that that's not I've got it I've had in front of me someplace the open meeting no no but there is a department actually somewhere and I had it here lost I'm sorry um and and they really frown upon that type of trans of of okay would you like to hear where I am with Adam that'll cut it to the chase well I spoke to Adam today so let me let me tell he call me back there let let you let you tell me what he was busy he was going into a meeting and I got back for a week's vacation and with the kids and so what happened is Adam gave me some guidance in terms of where to go to find a way to work our way around the problem that we initiate we bring something up but then everybody has to go out and uh do some research on it we come back it takes forever I'm just trying to speed this up figure but so but and you going to let me finish you going to let me finish I'll let you finish you let me finish okay you can do it in 5 minutes yes sir okay so Adam gave he says there is a way to do the white paper process and make it work for you okay he gave me the case uh Mary Alice Butler versus the town of Wayland right and and he pointed me through a way a methodology in which we might uh be able to create the white papers individually if we wanted but it has to go to an IND a member member who can't vote or basically lead assessors send it to the lead assessors let them consolidate that right you can post it before you have your meeting you can put it up up there is just as long as we don't debate it but you can put it up there and then allow the members to see in advance of what the concepts are and then you can have an active conversation based on that and each member can do what they want you can post it before the meeting as long as it's in a public place so I then turned around I wrote a process up sent it off to him right and we put it on the website and say the you know these are white papers are going through and we're probably going to be okay I was waiting for Adam did you call him I called him but I didn't get to him till later this afternoon so in either case this is and if you want here's the information but it to read it the results would have been uh this is the cord case if the public the results of that outcome of that case would have been different if the board had made the individual and composite evaluations publicly available before the meeting right publicly available that's how you work it and nothing in the open law or public record statutes however precludes the board from prior disclosure nothing so that's how we can do it that's am I done I'm done go ahead so what did he say his recommendation was to bring an item to a meeting mhm and if you want to share something at the meeting share it at the meeting and then we come back and discuss it at the next next meeting he said that's the that's the best way to have uh be able to share opinions he said this is nothing but trying to skirt the law but it but it is but it is let him finish go ahead go ahead I'm sorry I apologize it is within the current writing written but not the intention of the law so it it fulfills the requirements as the law is written but it doesn't really fulfill the requir reir of law having said that I think that the easiest way to do this is if you want to write a write a white paper go ahead and write a white paper you can bring it in here and just give it to us as a very brief agenda item we will then spend whatever time we want to reading it and try trying to figure out what it is you're trying to say and then we can discuss it at the next meeting as much as we need to discuss it and to make to come to some kind of conclusion this wasn't the white paper it doesn't really tell us anything and and okay and I sent all that information to Adam and he was clear that what what we were trans what you were sending to us did not fit under the open meeting law did not okay uh I have a writing from him that he's not excited about it but essentially I understand that it's doable yeah and it's totally legit and uh and if if we as a board agree to do that if we as a board agree to do that we will do that as a process if we as a board agree to do that a process as a process right so so are you making a motion no I'm going to finish the process and put it in front of you you don't even know what it is okay you don't even know what it is and I do have I outlined it to Adam and uh basically there's different components to it uh the where the town if it's going up on our website Heather has a first wrer review wrer review as well as we can decide but Nothing is Stopping Us from letting each other know in advance and trying to schedule it and that's what back to Brian I would like to have us this on this agenda if we can please find the attached uh white paper that would go along supporting that information and uh it shouldn't be attached it should be posted go ahead post it while I'm sending it okay I can send if you listen to him it had to be posted yeah available for the public absolutely so it's not going to be attached to me it's going to be going or her okay I'm asking you to just put it on the agenda I won't I won't attach to the issue I won't attach to paper Okay goe okay so then I would uh essentially uh get it out that way and that way we'll probably shorten our cycle of trying to come up with an answer we've been kicking some stuff around for an awful long time it's not because we haven't we haven't been working really hard but perhaps we can work in a fashion that allows us to come to decisions better and faster so this this is these two two items one is the white paper one is the status of I'm sorry the lessons and potential Solutions so I didn't hear anything on lessons and potential Solutions yet so I think we're done with this Adam to come back to me we are done I think we're done with this conversation you you're going to bring us your proposal in writing yeah to the next meeting but I need to talk first to the next meeting I don't know if I can get it done that or to some Mee yeah and then we'll be able to think about it and talk about it at the meeting thereafter yes okay yeah yeah fine and so uh what else do we have here am I for what well that was it on those two items I think right uh that was two we get two in the midd we got the white paper and the lessons and potential Solutions which and the other item on our current agenda is the clarification of our current situation regarding exemptions I made a little hand out uh you gave me one and this was a u just a that was the other thing that should have been on our list if she didn't put on the list all the investigations of the ex exemption situation I got that I got that I haven't Miss to that one hold so the 41c uh we just happened to find out a lot of things we we realized that what what was on our wall uh was not accurate yeah and we don't know essentially where that information came from so we did some investigation we actually spoke with Jim Crowley who's an attorney for the Department of Revenue and we've come to the following conclusions with the 41c um right now you must be 70 as of July 1st the amount is $750 okay what we have to go by for 2024 is the income limitation for single is 315 for married persons is 396 uh the asset limitation for a single person is 527 and married um is 72727 MH the 41c limitation does not add the cost of increase right so proposed for the uh Springtown meeting um proposing to increase the exemption to $1,000 instead of the 750 who which which meeting the fall meeting or this spring the spring the spring the one com the one we just yeah right we good okay perfect thank you sorry I yeah it's say Springtime Springtime I just for some reason heard reduce the age from 70 to 65 years old yes uh but we will have to abide by the current in covet asset limitations of 41c of the 41c which are 20,000 40,000 for 2025 yeah yeah now it's because we haven't formally changed it from the past no because we never accepted and the cola doesn't work or we didn't accept it we never accepted 41d we had to convert over from 41 C to 41d to to adopt Cola we've been adopting Cola anyway yeah but it has never been approved by town by the legislative body of the community okay so and if we do this for fall town meeting that'll impact the year we want to it'll impact 2025 now having go ahead I'll let her she has she has she's got she's got this thing going here please comment put through this together so fast but please make any comments necessary because Reena actually pointed a couple things so so this is for 41c um so to adopt the cola we need to um have 41d added as an exemption and that allows for the cola yearly and then we can follow the legislature income limitations which are indicated below single person for 20 married for 30,600 single in the asset single is 40,000 in marry those those are the 41 C those are the these are the uh um the 41c currently right yeah yeah but um the big benefit of the 41d is that it allows us to add Cola adopt Cola yeah on the value for you cuz the elderly 41c up at the top here it's a single person is yearly income no more than 31,500 yeah but then down here for the 2025 while meeting it's a single person yearly income no more than 20,000 the thing you have to look at is this we'll have to abide by the current income and asset limitations which are the 20 30 six the 40 and the 55 so these numbers down below are the numbers that we are going to have to adopt okay in the spring right now oh okay so this I yeah I'm a little confused no no that's okay this I think we probably should have put up right there first so this is what we have to adopt right now yeah what's further up is what's on the wall which we can't explain where that came from sorry so so I guess never accept I'm wondering then um for the fall meeting what would our income limitation be that we're looking for the we could we could I'm sorry if we adopt 41d fall meeting it would be whatever the cola number is that they're proposing which I believe will be something greater than 30,500 for this year and we fall will also reopt uh 41 yeah CU they've been keep 41 C doing away with 41 I just want make yes because we're we're at right now um this is what we have 20,000 that's what we should this is what we should have correct but we have this correct yes and this is what we're doing unless we pass something at fall 2025 meeting okay okay and because right now we're not I'm sorry yes we're we're not legal and fall 2025 um my question is we've got this is the starting point right they've been keeping track of 41d cola right so we would just adopt whatever it is for 2025 correct that's what I wanted to knowk correct okay I got it um that makes sense so two questions then so the the well just the point was we are currently at this 315 and 369 income level yes easily just random random made up whatever it is however and we've already approved a whole bunch of folks at these levels so any ones that we take between now and July July have to be done based upon that income level this one mhm okay so we are then because we've are adopting this thing in the spring uh this 41c we have to go back to the 41c levels but we can change the ages and the re and the uh conversation am the why and why can't we come back and ask the you know be for the next for this fall meeting why couldn't we ask them to up up the uh the 41 C can't be changed it's locked it's locked there's no 41 C how not changing so we have to adopt 41d okay but I thought in order to go ahead go ahead I'm listening but in order to if we adopt 41d we can keep the 65 and the Thousand and accept cola if we stay with 41 C if we don't accept the 41d we have to go back to the income limits that are 20,000 and 30,600 I was under the impression in Reading one one of them that says the town may decide that they want to up what they get but they don't change we don't get any more money from the state we could change it but we true they have to do it by accepting they never accepted the colas that was never accept they've been it seems like the colas have been added every year but it was never legal was never accepted so what is do we have any idea what the 2024 Cola income limitation is for single person and married person um 404 is that so you know people have an idea of what we're going for let me see if I have it in here I'm sorry the 41c No 41 D1 okay the fall that's what we're going to do in the fall did I say 41 I I don't know I just the probably did I think the Coler was at like 6.5 or something here we go this is that cross oh that's the cross yeah that's cross the so it should give six and a 12% 6 and 12% so it would be 6 and 1 12% above 20,000 yeah yeah um if we if we that was single that's if you're single but if you're married and it's 55 if you're married now but that that that would be less than the 41c or is it because my my my you know how you know you you you get interest on your loans Cola should be like every year added right it is it is every year thing this this was to give us all an update on Investigation okay sorry and having said that we are not through the investigation yet I believe that we can adopt 41d yeah and just accept whatever the cola level is today right which would be 30 something yeah I I I think that we could do that but I haven't gotten confirmation of that that's what I'm wondering right you know I'm like so we get you know whatever year it was and then there's this and this yeah so there are things in front of us right now we are we we have 41c and we should be locked into this 20,000,000 40,000 but we hadn't been in 20204 so we'll continue to accept them in 2024 in 2025 if we change the age and the amount we have to go back to the 20,000 cuz we are only using 41 C if we indeed accept 41d then I think we get the the state adjusts it the adjustments and we get the the age limit and we get the total exemption amount that would just be much better we get the but can't right is there any with with okay on the on the 4 41c wasn't there something written in the bottom that says the town can vote to exceed those both the uh income and the asset limit I is that in there I don't think so and the reason I don't think so is because those were the state mandated numbers right yeah but the talent ver on the phone okay our our first 45 minute conversation with the attorney from from the the do yeah we got a lot of this and there's still as we were trying to figure out uh okay so what does that mean now we've come to this and I think we have we're going to have to have a couple more meetings with them okay to figure out exactly what the implications are but starting now what it looks oh yeah what well so we could have pulled the plug on the 41c thing Al together for this time none of us really wanted to do that because we had talked about that well because there is some benefit to those people with regard even it's 250 bucks but in lowering age that was a benefit that was readily apparent there'll be a larger body of people who will be able to access a potentially smaller amount if we go over that 73 number no that doesn't mean anything it means this number 73 doesn't mean anything then that's just that's how many people were told are eligible for yeah I know yeah I didn't say I wasn't talking about the re number okay we have potentially by dropping the age from 70 to 65 we'll have more people eligible agewise right right now yeah and because it's 41 C we have to go back to the 20,000 number on 41c right there is yeah it's it's poorly written M and it's poorly inter and there are lots of towns that have done this too outside of us do we load this data ourselves or does the state so the states they they I think the state thinks we adopted 41d because it was on our uh yeah because because we kept sending bigger numbers we kept sending bigger numbers right so they probably and that was when we had our RG yes we have been for 26 years not their fault yeah that's the board huh the issue is they didn't get when it was voted on it never was updated they so well no some things were we we we in our in our ultimate intelligence decided that we CH we would change the amount from 20,000 to 24 or was it 20,000 or 24,000 or something like that somebody decided and and the state didn't responded that they just said oh no they can't do 20 24,000 so 20,000 on another form and it's was like it's just a mess so what's going to happen to these people that are applied for this year they'll be fine we are that's fine but I'm saying that doesn't kick in till next year so we if we can we shift them over to the D from the C if we accept it in the fall town meeting we can shoot everybody over at 41d okay and wasn't one of them limits uh the four uh 41c was a little more generous in one area than in the D D is always more generous well we we don't know because we've never looked at D we've never yeah never accept it well it it the the income limits are higher for 4 the asset limits is similar when we think the asset well I think both income and assets are higher okay but um yeah it's it's it's quite a mess it's going a mess and the other thing is having said that having said that we just sent out tax bills which means we can accept exemption requests through July if they've not 424 if they've not already applied yeah I I should have said new but yeah yeah we can so we can accept them for 24 through July typically TP typically we send out the next year in the summer right yeah so I'm suggesting we wait and hold off on those until sometime later in the year when we know exactly what the story is so that when they are applying we know what they're applying against right yeah we going to know what the so I started putting together a calendar of events that I see oh good this it says exemption applications mailed um last year we did them around August so August 31st I picked this year we'll I think send them around November 1st that makes the most sense to me or after the fall well we'll have a pretty we can send the applications out we and by the time we start getting them back we'll have had the town meet F fall town meeting we'll know what the limits are okay um we will have to submit New Growth oh classification hearing will have to be in mid uh early or mid November uh usually classification hearing is typically in a regular year it's in November that's what I said yeah early or mid November yeah so thank you for correcting me sorry she's my best friend too she's uh we need to submit the tax recap on November 15th so uh tax bills will be due on December 31st tax sorry they'll be mailed they'll be due on February 1st as well as applications for abatements applications for exemptions we have to hold open till at least April 1st of next year well they due April 1st right except in a regular year except this year in a in a regular we're going to go back to a regular we are going to go back to a regular year so so having said that um I we're just holding off on the sending out the applications for the exemptions until later in the year than we normally would yeah which which is the big deal we got to hustle them in they get that 30-day window about thereabouts there's no 30-day window for exemptions thinking about abatements they're not the exemptions they have I thought it was 30 days after the taxes even the corly taxes talking about abatements not exemptions okay so there's no some someone can file an exemption whatever three months three up to three months after okay this year they can because the tax bills went out late well and every year they can because the tax bills go out on January 1st and they have to have them in by April 1st correct it's three months months three months it's it's it's just three months from when they three months but we didn't send our bills till May uh April 16th so we have 3 months from April 16th to take them accept them look over calendar I printed out from you that that's month by month it gives you everything so that you need to do no he sent me that calendar I'll put it in there I wanted to finalize this with them because I actually made some changes uh that's not it take people to the state calendar and that's all I have right now hey two point okay when you your want to bring two points up so the update was we're still investigating our current situation on exemptions we're we're zeroing in on the 41 CD situation although we don't have all the answers there are still like three other exemption types that we need to do some research into because I think we're not necessarily perfectly Prosecuting them there we go can I ask a question now okay back when there's no date on this of course maybe there is but uh Town went and accepted all of these right in your package that you gave me yeah yeah that was in 8 88 so they're technically the town has approved it and accept accepted him you want to make except if you want to make a modification you have to rever I'm sorry what was that what what what Clause did they accept all these Clauses apparently so looking at 41 we accepted 41 C there's no D on there right there is no D but there is a 41A so does that mean yeah but we that's the deferral Clause that's a big deal deferral Clause especially where they've had new changes with the circuit breaker that influenced the numbers on the on that I Cofe I'm I will write something up but I'm going to ask us to submit that such does it h it's going to be changed it's not the one the original one that was voted on it's now including circuit breaker because the law changed from the uh state if you look at the 41 uh a so we're going to do a total review of all the exemptions so thank you if you want to help with that yes and I will that's that's what that sounded like I will and I will a positive guy that wants to move forward that's what it sounded like to me okay there you go great here we go and that's a lifesaver for a ton of people and it doesn't today no one's taking advantage of 41A right what's that they are they are after we gave that seminar but yeah we don't we don't do anything with circuit breaker we you don't we don't so but you were talking about 41A 41A we don't have any 41 A's today no we don't that's we haven't had anybody apply for one that's because a town accepted it that means we don't have anybody yeah we don't have anybody but it's on the books as being carried and so therefore we want to update it we're going to revise we're going to review and revise all of our exemptions in the fall meeting and go legal we want to go legal for a change you knew you had a problem when you look at two different reports and they had the same stuff well and we we actually had some reports that went up and down over yeah they did they did they did it's uh if I could find it I probably can't find it we really need to talk to those people who've lived in town for 30 something years I'm sure they remember what happened to town meeting uh it's all written down of John John's passed uh Kathy still here but I don't even know was so while I was doing all this crap this is not on the agenda get him a this is not on the agenda but this was uh I was trying to figure out how to redo the calendar and I got this it's from the city of Boston and we're not going to discuss it tonight we got to review it but you can take a look at it this was a a a document that they have out there that basically explains the dates and what's going on in a normal year which we're moving toward a normal year next year and I thought it was a really nice summary of of if it's true for Boston if it's true for Boston it's true for us because we all live under the same Massachusetts laws so I thought that that one might be of use to somebody uh where's the other thing I wanted to pull up man so can we get this this calendar on the agenda for next week we could we can talk about that calendar for the agenda for next time um this was the DLS bulletin that everybody's been zeroing in on that came out in 201 that also has that that kind of calendar yeah so I wanted to get this into everybody's hands so they didn't have to go looking for it you already have this one right I gave it to you so I'll take I printed it back off the um I printed it off there she did give it to me I felt bad I had it I had I had it for him and then I had push the back button and I couldn't find it again so she found it and so I did actually in the note that I sent to you guys that includes that it I said Linda was able to find this and then I found this thing from Boston so you can go look at the Boston one yourselves okay but that one's um I thought that was a really nice way great to summarize it and we could point to the calendar and just take off the little thing that goes here's what here's what the here's what we do now right right so yeah thank you for that what else do I have when is there we going to have a meeting before town meeting right no are we're not we have nothing scheduled you're going to get up and say something though what why tell me about what we're going to talk about approval on the 41 Oh I thought you'd present that cuz that was yours okay I I'll but no I think that usually usually you're the chairman and lot often our chairman will get up and give an introduction in terms of what we're doing and that was the purpose of the whole de I don't I don't remember remember that being a regular part of town meeting the talking I don't our town manager will give an overview yeah but we're independent yeah but department does not get wrot something sorry I go yeah it's a waren article so yeah so I thought Jack would present that so if you're talking about we the if you're talking about wanting to give a summary of the warrant that's different yeah somebody goes up and presents that but the chair of all the Departments don't get up and give a a speech that's what the town manager does okay so for the omnus budget that's true and I'm trying to make this make this point um I know we get up and speak I also know that if we want to get for what for what the I want to talk about addressing the things that this group has done for the town in relationship to the issues that were that came up last time and and the progress so that's that's not a town meeting event yeah well the past it hasn't I can arrange to make it have somebody get up and speak to say this is the things we're doing to make sure that because building trust is a really big thing with them right I think that we've done some of that at some of of our prior meetings but when people go to town meeting they go to vote on the articles on the warrant on the warrant articles yeah um and we do have an article in the front of the warrant you have a little report that come from each conservation commissioner write at something that's there might be a blurb about what's happened with the department but it's not a presentation no I agree I agree uh so what are we written to put in there put in the warrant well I don't I I don't think that's a requirement I think the town manager rights report should they might put a summary of of stuff that's happened in town fiscally um and actually that fiscal one actually I think comes from our finance committee y yeah not not us okay because I think the the finance committee writes a report about the budget I I could SW and actually I know they're behind they were behind onw writing it um because of all the hearing right and I was under the impression when I was at conservation of the other stuff and when we're a finance committee and things we had to write just a brief of what was happening in the in the town is that not in there finance committee has done one in the past report there's a town report right yeah but that's not we wrote the town report yeah yeah yeah that's and we actually we approved that um you you brought it before for quite some time ago in November December or something like that okay we were sitting in this room and I was being grammar police since when aren't you quite often actually yeah Bri how much more do we have on the regular agenda well I was just looking to see if there was anything left here um I as far as this evening clarification of our exemptions and that was the last real agenda item other than upcoming meetings we had agreed to May 6th yeah pre previously and May 20th MH if those are fine dates for everybody I won't be here but for the 6th no but I'll be here for the 20th okay May 6 is it boa yep and May 20th okay and then we'll figure out what we need after that and the 20th huh how about if I could fego you to fego somebody said like Brian get on the stage and tell everybody what you're doing in the 20th I'm sorry jumping around did I see that we had an executive session yes we do oh that's right that went public you know yep you said the last time I oh shoot I don't say um so I think we can you got to turn them off we got to J in the meeting well we first have to open up for public comments closing nobody there board comments [Music] closing nothing I said I said everything I I want to say doing so good we're doing then I will entertain a motion if you would like to oh you don't have yours you want to read it I read it I can read what you can read it somebody to read this you already do the opening do it the agenda I didn't print that last motion topend uh suspend open meeting and enter into an exe executive session not to return to open session after ex exiting executive session motion to enter executive session on a purpose to comply with or act under the authority of any general or special law or Federal grant and aid requirements executive session applications for abatement or exemption under this chapter shall except in proceedings before the County Commissioners the Appel at tax board or a court of the Commonwealth be open only to the inspection of the assessors the commissioner the deputies clerks and assistance of either the assessors or the commissioner and such other officials that were designated private Auditors of the Commonwealth chapter 15 9 section 60 of mgl is law being cited adjourn motion to adjourn second so moved all in favor I I thank you shut us off