my phone's not going to ring cuz I put it in silent mode but it might be vibrating in my pocket life is good um there's three how come there's three yeah one of my brothers picks mushrooms he only picks a few different types that e e e e is there a thumbs up there all right this usually uh welcome to the board of assessors meeting for the town of lunberg today is July 29th um I will call the meeting to order in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting LW please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast live over the lunberg public access channel on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page httpswww w.f facebook.com/ lunberg dpublic Das access-- 157 42727 97535 the recording can be found on the lunberg access YouTube channel after the meeting the meeting will be held in person at at this location which is the bot room in the town hall uh members of the public are welcome to attend this inperson meeting please note that while an option for remote attendance and or participation is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting will not be suspended nor terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with particular interest in any specific item on this agenda should make plans for in-person versus virtual attendance accordingly for remote participation from a computer please use this link that I will now give it to you for Zoom it's https colon us02 web. zoom. usj 8521 97 95770 question mark PWD that's short for password equals k1z capital F lowercase fkp cap capital D lowercase h capital a lowercase dsb uppercase H lowercase JM HP HWP the number six WR capital m capital Z lowercase DZ uppercase W KZ that's a o do1 the meeting ID is 852 1 1979 5770 and the passcode is 418 944 from a telephone call the to number 888 475 4499 and enter to that web we webinar ID I'll read it again 8521 1979 5770 pound sign if you have not registered with zoom it we asked your name and an email address uh no participant ID is needed just press the pound sign when asked telephone users may dial star9 to request to speak after joining the meeting computer and app users may also use the raised hand feature to request to speak the agenda lists all topics which may be discussed at any at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed in fact may be discussed and other items not listed may also will be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law thank you uh we'll call to order uh first we'll introduce ourselves if we would mind doing that John rabbit Sarah camer Linda mcade Marena Sweezy and I'm Brian leant uh opening comments from the board are there any comments from the board hearing none are there any comments from the public looking for raised hands or you want to come up we know you but introduce yourself please good evening I I I won't forget again uh Carl luck 50 Sunset Lane in lunenberg um I just want to start but uh for the record the boa did approve our request for abatement for our property in May I thank you very much for your quick and decisive action on that uh most of our abatement requests concerns and property card Corrections have been addressed and we have no intention of appealing the granted abatement uh of course since this was over couple months ago we would be very interested in learning when the check might be in the mail but uh that's a subject for a different topic um regarding tonight's discussion uh as you all know over a month ago we formally requested a meeting with the principal assessor Linda uh to determine the specifics of the abated value of our property and get an explanation of how the final 2024 tax amount was derived both of our main areas of Interest are clearly aligned with the principal Assessor's job description under essential functions for some reason this request was referred to the boa by the principal assessor at the end of June we made another request to meet with the principal of sester including a detailed list of our specific areas of interest to make it clear that we did not disagree with the abatement but did want to understand how the various property card factors impacted the calculations of the abated abated assessment I'm not sure what the goal of the boa agenda item uh related to this matter is tonight but if it's to get our questions addressed I'm happy to participate in whatever discussion the board plans to have this evening understanding that may not be practical to address these technical questions during this meeting we hope that the result of tonight's agenda item will be to schedule a working session with us and the appropriate people people as determined by the sessor department uh to dig into the details of our tax assessment calculations in advance we thank you for your hard work and dedication to serving the Public's needs thank you anybody else online have their hand raised no thank you um we'll now address the status report from the principal assessor okay we've been very busy in the assessing Department uh so as far as our accomplishments um since our last meeting we inspected the remaining uh three real estate and personal property abatements uh we're waiting on board approval of those and they will be processed tonight if they are approved um we submitted the FY 2024 omitted and revised values and the roll back taxes in gateway to the Department of Revenue at the end of June and uh Randy Mercier a consultant had actually assisted us with our prelim FY 2025 billing on June 14th and our bills were mailed on June 26th I attended the maao Summer Conference in Plymouth uh the end of June and we um had um processed uh the excise tax commitment number three and that consisted of 626 bills totaling $1 13,636 42 and those bills were mailed out on uh July 22nd um in addition to that we um have received 115 motor vehicle excise tax bills just goes to show you the amount of volume that comes into our office we processed uh seven Butters list and also um we have six supplemental bills totaling $ 26,5 452 that we're waiting on approval for tonight we um also interviewed a um administrative assessing assistant um and we're about to make an offer to um her and also a data collector um when Julie gets back next week so hopefully we'll have two new people in the office within the next three weeks uh Mr CH if I could ask dur yes are we going to get a chance to interview this person um we it was just Julie and I that did the interviews uh we can actually introduce yeah the you usually I guess if the Selectmen will be interviewing somebody who's going operating heavy equipment because it's part of their pyramid of oversight where we're bringing people into the assessing organization and you know we're kind of charged to make sure that it kind of fits and the personality works and the background is legitimate wouldn't you think that this board has a chance to at least say AO to them before the final decision is made I mean that's just my feeling Mr chairman um an opinion on we can do that if you'd like um we'd be glad to actually bring the two candidates in if you'd like to meet them well I'm okay with the the final candidate yeah is as a vote of approval yeah I'm sorry I'm sorry she meant two candidates because we have two positions two positions oh yeah but anyway and we did interviews last week I know you had Co so sorry um Julie had We're all sorry I know we're all sorry you had Co no you're not yeah I know I um I I think it would be great if for future hiring maybe at least the chair could be looped in um but I know it's actually been hard to find people and to manage to schedule those interviews so I don't want to hold up that process generally my feeling is if we've asked someone to manage the office then they should have the the ability to make the recommendations on the candidates um and weed out whatever candidates they think are not appropriate and and uh I don't think it's necessary for us to be involved in the hiring and firing hiring of of that candid those candidates um since they will have to work together with the principal assessor um now I'm not completely against it but just my tendency would be to say it it's right you're hiring you're working with the person uh I'm going to trust that you know what you're looking for so um having said that we're we are close now so right I I there's no time for us to come back and and well there there could be if we want to set up a quick oneon-one the reason why organization we've been having trouble getting a lot more meetings going in the summer so you want to set up more meetings one on one or something without having the reality is there's a technical competence and there there's the social side of it and the end of the day the social side plays pretty big and you you try to measure the two we found that when you allow kind of group interviews or the people they're going to be working with the chance to say yay or nay and more often than not it's yay by a big stretch but it allows that person coming in to have met the other people and decide well they like them and at the same time we have a chance to decide whether we like it and more from not it works nicely so it creates kind of a welcoming environment that's you know with yourself as well and uh so whatever we can do to make these people feel welcome uh is what we want to do and at the same time we want to be assured that this is just not someone who came in and is and is fogging the mirror and saying the right things on a short period of time for a short period of time and then so I'm okay with if we don't do it on this one but I I'm with Sarah yeah we should have that clear policy that we invite anybody else in new or whatever uh we should have a a stake at and look at it you know we were fortunate with Reena and yourself that we had a chance to know you before you came on board and you had a chance to know us and ask us questions and discover that we're all very nice people and so I I would think we'd want to gravitate towards that and uh that would be my preference I appreciate I wasn't available for okay there's still time I mean I I know Julie is on occas I would love to meet with' like to to do that um I have to say we have had a little bit of a challenge fing a candidate for the administrative position we did find someone that does have some minicipal experience and Julie and I actually conducted five interviews uh last Wednesday and um okay both candidates I mean considering what we've had M for us of the applicants that have applied sure got somebody that does have some Municipal experience and the data collector is actually a uh a licensed appraiser I'm sorry the data data collector is a licensed appraiser okay which um which is really kind of a prerequisite for the that position in fieldwork so they're well qualified now they just have to get the other part of the equation if I ask Mr chairman if there's a transition plan that goes along with I'm assuming reeney are you you are you going away anytime soon or I initially I told Heather um I would stay till the end of the year yeah and you know depending on Heather is leaving and depending on who the now New Town manager is you know I guess um I'm not sure what's going to be happening you know we've got we've got two new people coming into the office um you know there's going to be training not as much the data collector as the office Personnel right and uh if I can stick around take some of that off lender I definitely will yeah I would think that's critical because what happens is when you bring in two when you bring in one person there's actually more energy going out than coming back in in terms of bringing up the speed introducing him understanding the systems how the town works all that you bring two of these people in there and you're going to have a big drain on your available energy so Mr chairman I I would strongly Advocate that we don't change the plan in terms of keeping Arena around till the end of the year I I think reena's available until December yeah so we I think have already agreed that it would be great if she stayed here till December I don't know if we I think we specifically said that when she reup right um I don't think anything has changed that and if the new town manager wants to the interim Town manager wants to change that agreement then we'll have to negotiate that at that time right I do agree with you and just with the workload with the two of us and um the other concern is we coming up on our busy time the interim uh I'm still working on the growth uh there's quite a few inspections that need to be done so with having here and just even the motor vehicle the amount of work we have with that it's right it's a lot so we do we do need the help the extra help in the office okay thank you thank you thank you mrman um yes in 3 months where will we be you're talk here you have goals for next month but we have we also have to look further ahead we do do you want to go through these goals and then talk about where we will be in three months or yeah I mean I I did want to mention one other thing uh so as far as the growth I've been working on that as well so right now just between the residential and Commercial we're at 13,760 uh uh 86 so $186 and that is um assessed value so that's not tax Rec um so so you're saying that's new growth that's new growth uh we just submitted the files from National Grid for our personal property so hopefully to Brian peler at rrc so they're working on our personal property growth so we don't know what that figure is yet but I'm I'm hoping hopefully by September we'll have that so that's an important key is we we've got to get ready for obviously our interim we have to submit the LA 3 to Gateway get that approved and um I have to start working on the classification hearing that's going to be in November so there's quite a few yeah things coming up that Mr J did did you say National Grid uh yeah for our utilities that's personal property so that's something we aren't we aren't we uniti um we submit Boston gas um National Grid we submit that to our our RC and they do the appraisals on that the utility appraisals and that determines our growth so they take care of that so I had had a delay Reno and I both had been working with contact National Grid and we weren't able to get the files they were encrypted so we had to so we're doing the same thing for Unitil as well right now um I um I don't think we have any National Grid utilities um unel is electorate but I think um they were waiting on two we're waiting on two of these files so so they take care of all our utility okay appraisals yeah and then they also work on all the personal property as far as growth okay so we needed to submit the remaining utility information to them so that they can do the appraisals to get our work on our growth okay yeah so between the residential the commercial and we actually have more commercial property to go out and assess and and then so between the residential the commercial property and the personal property we'll have a final number for our growth okay for I didn't I didn't know you taught me something new here I didn't know we had anything going with National Grid I thought it was we're just totally unitile we also have Fitchburg Gas and Electric they come under under that our personal property okay well Fitchburg gas electric is part of util he's part of util yeah the the National Grid is that U mostly gas related as opposed to I think it is okay I I think the difference is we get our electricity from Unitil but I think we get our gas from Nas oh okay so we've been trying to get a file from them for several months yeah which we got today all right been a bit of a challenge but we got it done finally yeah we grew by 12 million um anything else on the goals you want to that's pretty much it I I had gone through um I still would like to continue um want to mention this going through the open building permits yep um because I'm I'm going back to Prior years just to make sure that nothing was missed so because we had some missed in the past we did Mr chairman if I could ask another question please um Lindy you go to the weekly financial review meetings and stuff do we are they sharing what the delinquency rates are with regard to property and excise and cars any kind of Deliverance payable delinquencies I can actually find that out uh that would be from the tax collector and the fin I think they they talk about those kind of metrics in the meeting I don't have those numbers off hand but you get minutes from those meetings no okay because it's it's really just like a finance team right and what you're a member it's not like a a meeting it's just you know it's not like a board meeting it's just to finance team that but usually you have a meeting like that you'd have minutes right wouldn't you keep minutes and keep people appraised of what's going on and is it a public meeting no it's not a public meeting no it's just a departmental meeting and we we just get together and talk about all the any issues that we have and things that are coming up things that we're we're all try and we work together the three of us to try and you you would just say okay this is where my number is this is where I think it could go that kind of thing and uh you'd have might actions that come out of that and see what activities that are going on as well it's just things that where challenges or any issues that we have yeah kind of an informal it's not public meeting okay it's an effort to coordinate yes it's really an effort to coordinate effort the three departments work we all kind of work together hand in hand okay thank you okay thank you um other so we'll move on to current business this is a discussion about the request from Carl that we he mentioned during the public uh comment um as I was re looking for something else today yesterday um I happened upon a Massachusetts General Law chapter 59 section 52c that says IT addresses public access to terminals or other data processing equipment and I have a copy for you Carl which will I'll share with you afterward basically it says that we do not provide what is called behindthe counter access to the public so the request to review the software and do some wha ifs on the software is one that we cannot fulfill so I said I think I may be reading this wrong I called the Town Council um Town Council basically said uh yes that is the proper reading uh I he also was concerned about setting a precedent about potentially uh providing access to what could be confidential Town data now having said that I know that the intention was not to look at other people's data but you're sitting there looking at a screen and and that could happen um he he was supposed to send me a copy of his opinion it's not in my inbox yet I will share sh that with you um but the opinion was we are should not be providing that kind of visibility um as you know we continue to be underst staffed and I'm I'm reluctant to keep spending or to spend some of our limited resources on that request at this time we're moving forward on Staffing so that one might become you know a moot issue um but if the Town Council continues to say that we should not be providing that kind of access then that's what we will do um unfortunately um y I'm sorry you want to come up you're prior of this agenda item so feel free to come on up and talk about it because yeah no um car luck again um yeah there's clearly great confusion I absolutely agreee with Town Council and the state law I I do not want access to your computers I just want my questions answered about what is the impact of what it was to what it is and how does it how how the questions are quite clear none of the questions require me to look at anything other than the output of the system uh and and you have the output of you had the output of the system before and you have the output of the system now so what didn't get answered step because there are there are a number of changes in in granted and there there is a a new property card in calculation so I know the answer for the impact of all of those changes in the aggregate in the aggregate okay and I'm simply asking again and I and I quote the the the assessor job description it's the Assessor's job to provide the public with the information about how the valuation was achieved or was derived and that's all I'm asking so how did the going from a fireplace a full-blown fireplace to a gas stove what's the impact of that now if we have good documentation which I question but if you have documentation we could sit down with the manual and say okay what's the factor for a fireplace what's the factor for a gas stove and and that's the answer and where does that go into the equation if we don't which is why I tried to elaborate then it's quite simple i' I've done it a few times with with Reena to take the existing property card change fireplace to gas stove and print out a new result that's all I want to see is the result I want to see the result of the impact of typical kitchen versus old style kitchen and has nothing to do I do not want access to to the files so that I I I'm I apologize if there was confusion I tried to be real clear that I'm not looking for Access I'm simply looking for what is the impact of each of these factors and again if there's a you know that somewhere in the in the software if not in a manual there are these constants if you have a typical kitchen it's this constant if you have a you know while these C categories and they all go into a calculation I'm simply asking what went into the calculation to get to my new number because quite frankly what one of the reasons other than my normal inquisitiveness to understand the system we put several changes in kitchen typical to old style bathroom typical to old style fireplace to gas stove ready go that might have been something else uh you know those things if you're buying a house would have a reasonable impact I would think but but in the end of the day all of those things only had a 0.9% impact on the building value so I'm saying okay I don't understand then so I'd like to understand what those factors contribute to the calculation so and and I and again just just this the if you disagree or the town manager disagrees that those that information and that request is outside of the job description as written then that's a different subject if it's within the job description of the principal assessor I quite frankly after being in boards for 20 years I'm not quite sure what the board of assessors role is in this because this is a department issue this is a day-to-day operation question a job description of an employee that doesn't work for the board of assessors I'm happy to get your help to to get things scheduled and even to participate and learn with me if you'd like to um but to me it's a it's it's it should be between the the resident and the and the um principal assessor so simply answering questions is one thing and what you've listed is a whole list of questions that you want to address which would require us to sit down and go through line item by line item by line item by line item and figure out what that implication was um it's it's I'm I'm personally going to wait to see what the Town Council recommends because I sent the entire string of emails that we have going on this that has started back in May May or June May whatever it was um and let I yeah might have been anyway uh and I want to get his feedback on what your questions are because your questions seem to be more in depth than just a simple uh change what does this change if we do what does this change do and what does this change do and what does this change do and what does this change do and what does this change do and at some point you know what the final answer was you weren't terribly dissatisfied with it as far as I could tell because you didn't appeal it so having said that then how we got how that software arrived at the answers is something I don't know how to I don't know how to give you without showing you the software which I don't think we want to do I I I just as I had done in writing explained how is is that you change fireplace to gas stove print out a new print out all of these questions should not take 20s should not take more than one hour just to go through these plug in change typical to Old print out a new one and don't even look at the result just print out a new one and I'll worry about spending the time to see what changed on the sheet and and and so for I I don't I don't understand what legal has to to do with this I'm asking a question that's within the scope of the um function essential function of the assessor and I I I don't know why I think the wrong people are getting in the way because it's not it won't take more than an hour let me read the questions for the people s who you're at home they're very short first and I'm I would be more than happy to give you a property record card and I can go through your property record card individually and show you what the value is but your email was asking for an hour and it sounded like it was getting into the the vision appraisal and how we cost things and that's why I directed it to the board because that is kind of Beyond you know things that we can really explain I understand that I don't expect anyone here to to explain how the factor got how you got to the factor because they they've been in there forever and I mean they're so buried I don't think everybody's even worried about in a while but maybe as a result of this exit you may find that there are some that you might want to understand a little better because to go through so many changes that are not insignificant and come up with a 9% change on the value doesn't feel right which is why I'm asking the questions you know and again there they're simple you know fireplace versus G gas fireplace typical versus old style kitchen bathroom you know um the the the the um fact that there's is a category for concrete foundation that's in the um I don't CMA or whatever the high Lev codes are and in the um workbook that's supposed to be captured and yet there doesn't seem to be any place in the system to put it and no no impact so to to test that just put put in you know put that code in what happens if you put the code in because there is a code in the handbook that says you're supposed to capture that data and you're supposed to put it in the equation um but when you try to do it it it sounds like it didn't work um you know well what's the is sure it didn't work yeah it may be the same in our our costing so the card actually does have the cost broken down so if you'd like another property card we can print one out and we can go through what those costs are but sometimes there isn't really a difference yeah sometimes things like typical and old style there really is no cost difference in them Mr Mr chairman through you I believe and Carl correct me if I wrong you're asking for a simulation exercise a basic quality simulation you're basically taking some of the variables you're changing one at a time and seeing what what how the bottom line Chang short of a short of a handbook that tells you what those factors are the way and think could easily do it right so at the end of those 20 simulations and you're seeing the valuation you want to then go back and change you know change them all and see if those numbers add up on the other side see if if there's anything that falls out of line with regard to a compound calculation versus a single one at a time calculation all we have to do is pick about 20 of them but there aren't even 20 there's probably six I mean yeah okay we could have done it we could do six really easy emails have been going back and forth yeah we'll do six real easy and uh just write it down and Linda I'll come over with you and if you want to we'll just try them and we'll validate that the numbers are consistent when you put them all in together or what are the single individual changes are and I suspect that you know we're probably going to be okay but we might get surprised you always get surprised when you do a simulation exercise and in terms of what the net output is and I think that's what Carl's kind of asking us for is to take a look at those six or whatever number the new the old and see how they end up individually changing and then run them all through and see if that gross change is equal to those numbers that we've calculated and if that's the case you'll be able to know what the new versus the old the gas versus the Wood Fired we'll know each one of those and we'll know if the system really is calculating those all the right way or is there another file that's sitting in there dumping something in I I just don't know but I think to do six you we can change those and and again I'll sit down with you I promise not to cough all of you but um we could do that real quick we can actually print out lash or the prior property card to this card and then compare the two and determine it that way but I it just seems like he's asking for a little more information beyond what we can do because of vision and he he sounded like he wanted I mean we can we can SE separate them all out I mean we can say okay we do one piece at a time the machine will tally it for us at light speed right and we get a number and then we just go on the next one and then we say okay let's make the changes to all of them at the same time and they should kind of add up and it wouldn't be the first time that I've seen something like that you get a compounding Factor you get all sorts of other factors that we don't even know about so maybe exist maybe they don't but test it yeah I you know that's what I think you're ask you never know what's going to come out um you know and and you can't just look at the two sheets because you can't tell which thing made which change where but what if you what if you put in gas versus what if you did one of just did the first one and they came back with no change that's that's that's a possibility it is a possibility but isn't it something that that that in some cases came back with no change no change could in fact be the answer it could be the answer but don't you think it' be worth looking at you know what why is there no change take why would there be no change why would make sense that be no change when you go from a typical kitchen to an old style kitchen would that make sense there's probably a change on that one but you just talked about the fireplace versus the wood stove this like possibly a change I don't know if there a change um and so uh testing it and saying well this one didn't impact anything and this one did may or may not give you any indication of something that's wrong it made just say there's no difference but you yourself Mr chair just said that if if it came back with typical versus old style was the same that you would you would potentially see that as as something to look into right yes right y why did change Miss camera you um can we can I ask you a couple questions sure I know um you got the request for an abatement and then you went you measured everything you looked at the house you noted um differences did you enter them one at a time I did and when I went through when we Brian and I actually went on the inspection we were very thorough we actually explained what we were going to change uh to Mr luck on the day of the inspection Pao too and um and then um he actually came back and had requested a change with the he measured the Patty exactly um because I verified each thing with him I went through the card thoroughly so we did do the inspection um discussed what we found and then I made the changes one by one um and then um do you think you could recreate that and just hit print each time um I don't know S I mean we i' have to take it out and then right change it out but if he if he compares the two cards we compar the card before we started and then after it would be indicate the change there so I'm sorry excuse we don't have a we don't have a Sandbox all we have is the live data yeah so if we go in and make changes to the live data and and there's a save that happens that's not supposed to happen or whatever we could wind up changing stuff that we don't want to change yeah so but that's but we've we've done that from my property several times and nothing's messed up Greener has very successfully gone in changed something printed out a copy and then gone and changed it back and everything is fine I I don't it's understand usually it's a oneoff not six or seven off but okay you're one time but but comparing the the two cards doesn't not answer the question because there's no way of telling there should be a way of telling the difference in the the cost of the two but it just appears that you're asking for more your email indicated that you wanted us to go through and spend about an hour in the vision software to see how we have things costed out that's kind of beyond the scope of work and that's why it was presented to the board because uh Billy G I just wanted to make sure so this doesn't fall under the um let me read it because I don't want to get it wrong oh here it is provides information this is from the job description essential job functions provides information in person on the phone email or via written correspondence to property owners and others regarding the municipalities assessment policies and procedures and the determination of specific valuations tax abatements and exemptions so I'm looking for information on the determination no specific valuations so I I don't understand how that doesn't fall under the job description we did do that we we went out to your not me you didn't we did we went out to your property we did the inspection I believe I even discussed it with you over the phone but these are my questions these are the questions we we went through all that and that was all good and you put them in I didn't realize you did them one at a time Sarah appropriately asked so it's all I'm asking now is to do them one at a time I can actually look at the two cods and explain to you the difference between the two if you'd like us to do that but your email kind of went a little beyond that and you ask for what I expect to be an hour now I so I think we if I may I think we have a difference in opinion between um Mr luck and our assessor about what specific valuation um is um I think you want specific details on on how each factor gets input into the card and what comes out at the end um and I think in terms of specific valuations if I'm hearing correctly um the card comes out the details uh related to the abatement in this case get put in and then the end product is the card and that is the specific valuation so I think we are are arguing about two different definitions here and I I don't have enough experience to say which one is which um so perhaps we should talk to our Council or uh other assessors who have been through that more but but but the question is not giving me access to your system the question is I don't understand how if a if a resident comes and asks the assessor Department I'm thinking of updating my bathroom to a modern bathroom and I would like to know what the impact on my taxes would be should I do that I think that's a fair and valid question for a citizen to ask of the department this board or assessor not feel that yes we we do okay we can do that the only thing is it makes it difficult if somebody asks us that question we don't know the quality in the bathroom um because that's where the GR in so it's a hypothetical question I'm going to it's my my property card says old style today and it's true bad need of upgrading and we will all concur on that and I plan and I plan to upgrade it to Modern how much is that going to cost me how much is that going to cost me my taxes well and the I I don't know the answer to that myself because it depends on how um those have been ranked over time and how they've changed with the most recent assessment and they might change in the future based on sales well right this year I'm going to do it yeah and and the I I understand what you're saying the factors if somebody to answer the question if somebody comes and asks me I'm going to say what I just said because I don't have a crystal ball about what it's going to be down the road but today I'm just asking today nobody has a crystal ball I want to know if I if if if if you come inspect my house and the last inspection was typical and it's now modern how much is that going to impact well and at that point I'm going to direct you to the vision software if you want the exact amount and then I would ask Vision um how they calculate it um and I don't know I I don't know that they would release that or not I don't know I would well you could as we talked about plug it in yeah just plug it in compare plug it in compare plug it in compare plug it in compare I'm not done plug it in compare plug it in compare yeah at least so we wind up doing it six or seven times we've already done it yeah we went out and I mean even when somebody calls and asks about a garage okay so does the garage is it you know 22 by 22 does it have a loft there a lot of un know we can do a hypothetical but that isn't right when we go out and do the inspections it's as what we see and and the big thing that plays into it is of course is GR condition right chairman so there are actually six yep there are six events of change print put back to where it was and at least as of this moment the board and the assessor department is saying that they're not willing to well I started out by saying we still have a resource issue we are busier than a one arm paper hanger we have two arm right now and we have two more people that need to be added to the to the mix and then trained but if we can so we don't get many requests like this thankfully because if we got lots of requests like this we'd have to say no to all of them honestly mhh um I'm that's that's different that's a scheduling issue that's not a out of scope issue as I said I want to wait to see what I get back from Town Council CU he has the string the whole email string with with all the list of stuff that you wanted and the stuff uh that you think how simple this could be and we how quickly we could do it he's got that whole thing and if he comes back and says well I don't see any problem with that then I think we'll have to see if we can figure out how we can get some time to go through that process okay we're we we we've been as you know over the past year trying to be very very transparent not always successfully but as transparent as we possibly can um and when I tripped across this I was like I'm not sure that I can make that interpretation I really want the Town Council to make that interpretation so I would only request that you make it clear to Town Council that I'm not looking for access to any software or anything I just want two printouts for each of the six questions well one printout I because I have the base six printouts W oh that you could still figure it out that way yes you could yes you could which means we have to make 12 changes but okay yes no yeah no no because you only have to put it back to where it was once that's no no well you go go through one and make a change you want to see what the impact of that one change is individual then you want to do the next change so you got to put the first one back so you got to put it back every time cuz we don't want to go out and you don't hit save you don't no saves and no saves so and no deletes either right all right so I wanted to give you an update on where we were right now and I appreciate it and I'm sorry so much your valuable time frankly it's just there's limited resource so we'll see what we can do thank you Mr CH I'm sorry okay that's all right are we not through the conversation Carl what you're asking for is just to look at this thing called an RNR analysis I'm pretty sure you know what that is is rep reproducible and repeatable Analysis and one is you go in you have a a piece that you want to inspect right and can the same person come in and come back with the same answer over a small period of time okay that's repeatable reproducible means you can put somebody else in and then come out with the same answer meaning that they're aligned in terms of how they're trained and what the specifications are our you're asking the question is what are the specifications that allow you to make those decisions and that's something that sits inside a vision someplace right no no I'm not even there I'm sorry I'm not I'm not looking to see if the sum equals the whole or any of that I just want to know what the incremental impacts are that's all that's all you want to know that's all I want to know I'm I'm sure that the software works the Su equal hole and all that good stuff we're all sure the software works with our fingers no followup questions oh I don't know thank you Carl than you Carl thank you I I suspect we'll have some kind of resolution over the next several days um could could we ask a question please which which of the six items specifically you want to know all six all of them yeah but I want to know what what they have typical versus a fair question here in the never mind for the purpose of this discussion it's the uh fireplace versus gas typical versus old kitchen and bathroom um there's a um those those are two items right those two for sure typical versus old were both bathroom and kitchen right so that's two items yes okay yes yeah yeah there's the foundation there's the uh the question four was relative to the impact of the effective year built because that was changed that wasn't part the abatement or anything else hear you the effect impct of the effective effective B changed y um so there put it put the old effective Year back in or what you know I I don't understand what an effective year built is it's has nothing to do with the building or anything else so it's something else Insurance related it probably affects the answer if it doesn't affect the answer then rate um there's a percent good Factor let see what the impact that is that's that's number five um that's it that's your six oh six cuz you're right it was a kitchen and a bath kitchen and bath typical or not you and I no okay thank you thank okay do you want to um you want to copy this pass these down to oh yeah read this here Brian these are the um that's why IW these are the ones you ask me to make copies of for the board the financial this is what oh the financial policies Heather sent out a list a financial policy thing that was rather lengthy so I asked if we could do in the office because yeah cuz he didn't want use the sink Y and I actually tried to read through it online and I finally gave up CU you didn't want to use I I I'm waiting for the paper thank you very much okay all right rushing right through we have uh discuss and approved minutes of June 10th uh has anyone had a chance to review it I did apologies no you want to see a copy of it if I can find it oh here's a June 10th did you read through it did you find I didn't find anything that I want to change I didn't see anything I read through it didn't print it looks different mhm things jump out at you as you print they too if they want these while we're looking at these you have um the executive session minutes of June 10th this is a quicker I think yep because it's shorter put this right here for you I said that way these are all those have this is all executive if they want that's executive there's a lot of Motor Vehicle and real estate commitments and abatements if they want to start signning the top page of all those okay correction a red pen there's nothing significant correct there it's just a couple of typos oh the in indentation yeah oh interior should have been and oh yeah okay Mr chairman yes sir uh with regard to the attemp it says that Brian uh Brian Leon states that during executive session if a member recuses themselves they should be excused from the room then uh this process will be going forward John disagrees and believes as a member of the community you always have the right to voice opinion beforehand sure but if you decide that you're not going to vote on that we said remember if you not vote you can still make the arguments as a member but you don't necessar conflict of interest really if you really want to abstain rather than recuse right then you can be in the room okay then we should put something in there for abstaining am abstaining from the vote uh sure okay yeah cuz we did say that yeah we did yeah thank you here's a red pen here's a red pen it is thank you go ahead okay remember may have stain I didn't go all that and participate in the conversation what this 89 pages of final policy I know I was reading it the thing is I okay if you can read it good it looks fine to me but I don't generally handle finances inside of the town so I I don't know who was actually supposed to do what so oh it makes sense to me but s can I I'm sorry I gave it to you too quick thank you okay to read that one cuz we nothing jumped out at me so just s that we'll just put those aside nothing jumps out at me and by the way during that meeting did we agree s with Sarah's statement Sarah we agree that's the right answer Sarah suggests that if the resident has a question they should schedule to come into the executive session to ask their an uh to ask their answer the board can then discuss among the El I think that was for for abatements uh yeah okay yeah yes I I think that is what I said whether we agree about another question it's minutes we would do that I don't think we voted on it so can we yeah otherwise it's it left it's left dangling we didn't vote on it so I can't say we voted on it vote on it some other time this is in fact we could vote on it whenever we talk about policies boa policies yeah you want to take a note of that we will do that yeah on the next meeting okay no you can't note it on there cuz you're know Chang in the minutes you're right right that's what happened or what didn't happen we can't make up what didn't happen I think we kind of agreed but we didn't vote on we didn't vote on I didn't think about we really only have to sign the L For The Collector okay it' be good to get that clarified yep current business thank you Mr chairman nothing else nothing else I yeah Pro as that is this to read that is that yours this is mine okay this is the one that Sarah modified slightly okay mostly for punctuation and indentation bless your heart sir I'm okay with it okay sorry to put you on the spot Sarah well it's okay don't you've read this I'm going to ask for a motion on these minutes I would uh I oh go ahead okay go ahead I Mo accept as written by amended by Sarah what's the date on that the executive session of June 10th June 10th you seconded all in favor yes I I I to sign it so this has some minor modifications okay and they are now approved with modifications very I just made some parallel structure y I think that makes sense thank you then sign us at one time but well we can't find we still have to just resign maybe I didn't change anything substantial just a type one added there it okay you can see her amendments on the second third page this BLS to yes they're not substantive yes I agree okay under entertain a motion a motion to accept the minutes of June 10th 2024 with um uh Mr rabbit's addition that member May abstain and participate in the conversation and a couple of quick typos and just a typo on the second page yep you want to second that I second and all in favor so we have minutes for June 10th we're caught up on minutes again just that line as soon as I get a hard copy oh I'll make those changes right oh I'll make the CH I'll make well sorry that leads me to another discussion but we'll talk about it later okay um okay uh review and approve invoices expense vouchers payroll and billing errors we have actually four invoices uh one from rrc uh for our software support it's an annual fee um Vision Government they actually um started um running the reports for the la3 which is the sales and then we have have two invoices from fs and Fs that um I don't believe were submitted and they haven't been paid as of yet so so can you give us the amounts um I can y um Miss car you want to give us the amounts sure the uh invoice from RC is a $22,000 annual fee The Vision Government Solutions report for interim to June 2024 to review the la3 is $1,000 the MFS is $600 um and that is for um one particular or it's itemized and then um the other one is for another month and it's uh 1,50 do we all need to sign go ahead and we don't need to take a vote right just to sign just you can sign them sign them all and then Nate will stop calling us for money Maybe not maybe not we thought we I'm sure he's watching our meetings he's not can I can I ask him about this before you say sign here were you initials okay yeah whatever you want can I not sign I sign that one a 61 yeah okay the plan has all been signed off and all the other boards have signed off yeah we didn't get it as Mr rabbit signs these do we have anything else we need to address actually um I do I do have something from the laow office of Thomas Gibbons it's a piece of property on um K I think it's on k um there's three Parcels that is coming out of 61b and going into residential property I got the plan but I had not seen the withdrawal so I called upstairs it had actually gone through all the other boards in may they neglected to send it to us um all the other boards have voted not to purchase this because we have to we have to meet a purchase and sales right your first refusal actually uh I I I watched the selectman meeting um a week or two ago and I think this property um still has to go before the open space committee um and they were looking to move that hopefully move their regular meeting sooner because the property owner uh lawyer is advocating to um shorten the right of first refusal from 120 days to less um and the select board I think is um they will waiting waiting for that information back from the open space committee but you guys as well have to um take a vote you uh you want to how large is the parcel currently oh you have glasses I I'll pass it down and does it a but any other property that the town ownes it um the open space has a whole set of criteria that they review and make a recommendation on yep and it also looks we do have a town of lenberg up here yeah so that would be is there some reason we shouldn't let that come out of 61 B 61b I would I would like to hear from an open space committee before I decide that um because they they did develop I was I was on that committee did the con ation commission vote not to the conser I I don't know about the Conservation Commission I think they did um I I know there's been some changes and I I haven't I I can't follow every meeting and I our approval isn't shouldn't be dependent upon the open space committee open space committee is another one of the approvers so I don't think we have to well they actually have no power whatsoever they are recommending board recommend to the planning board Sarah didn't they say something at that meeting about the town does not have the money to buy this property anyway I well they they say that every time right we go get grants and sometimes we buy the property you see so you'd prefer to table it till we hear from open space because open space reports or recommends to the I don't remember where the select board left it CU they had a whole bunch of other things that meeting um uh but the the thing that happens to um open space every time is um in our great organization of our community uh things get short circuited and go around um and things don't always go to that board to review it before somebody rules on it and then um that doesn't the piece never gets looked at that's happened a lot yeah for a whole year the that system wasn't working so and I certainly don't want to hold up a land owner but I also want our all of our boards we don't meet again till 18th of August yeah I think it's still in the 120 days but they want to accelerate from the 120 days right okay I don't know I hadn't heard you want to this is May 15th June July August 15th is 90 days oh they have 120 they have 120 so that would get us to uh so I I think what I'm hearing is a suggestion to table until we've yeah that's my suggestion butod is your yeah others might disagree with that we're the select board certainly was we're going to table this one will to move it along our next meeting hopefully there'll be a recommendation from the open space committed by that point what's the address on that I didn't cat I'm secondry it's what was the number on gilburn cuz they're developing um they're taking it a lot of it well they're taking a parcel out um one is they're developing a house on it for personal use and then the other are subdivisions oh one of those lots is actually going to be used by a family member which they have the right to do they already can they don't need our approval they don't need so it's really these other two Parcels um it uh it doesn't one lot is um is there a street address or anything for is uh doesn't say what the total acreage is and that spot on Kilburn Street there's a there's a town property there's another Street there's a wetland nearby and I um I haven't reviewed the anything else for us to oh there's we get your fingers going oh you're going to be signing your life's away um later on we have um quite a few motor vehicle abatements I have C you just need your three signatures and this one is for uh four motor vehicle abatements just pass them down where do you want us to sign in these just on the the three lines right there and then just it's been a long you know like last time today's the 29th today's the 2th of July where did it go I don't know why there's so many copies only one piece of paper needs to be signed or the yeah the just the top one okay yeah it's all the backup stuff I know looking for stand this is um just one right here for $37 we just you you sign that one where the three lines are or wherever you can ferve that yeah she's really tiny oh three more lines some of them have just one and then others it' be nice if those lines were big enough to write on you just got to write smaller when we when we actually learn how to use this munus system when it's not we won't do them one at a time we've had a lot of issues with it lately technical which is the reason why we have on Z's and twos uh that one is nine $9 nine number nine nine abatements oh nine abatements okay some of the some of those there's two because one goes to the oh yes the tax collector one goes to um the account so we have um that's the actual commitment this is the actual commitment the latest the latest which I think was three commitment three I think that was commitment three so that one we just need the three SES thank you these are all the signed ones oops sorry this is commitment number three look at all that yeah just a lot more abatements for me to have to listen to I don't have this C anymore so do you have your plate maren's made up a little form for a motor vehicle it has the list of stuff and then and then call me email me email me just send it by email okay this uh this next one is uh our real estate and personal property at batement it's on the second page uh the is that the one these are the 42 that of the 42 abatements that were processed uh should we be talking about those in executive session no you already you already this is just the issuing of them and again this two copies of most payment will ensue shortly thereafter yeah and hopefully it's in one of the answer the other question public comment and then once once it's signed it goes to the tax collector and thank you yeah these are more the same until the town account is that oh you have multiple copies some of these we have multiple copies this some yeah this one is three to be signed this is summ of what we did yeah you can tell by the amounts that if they're the same I tried to tried to keep them together TR right thank you [Applause] [Music] so this Vehicles okay is another okay I have a question yes so the last abatement was a positive number this abatement is a negative number I don't think that makes sense to me um thank you let me oh bitman total yeah negative is that one negative I think I think one of them is positive how much was collected I'm looking at this is a negative should be okay right is this this page right here I believe there should be positive I'm not sure I think one of them is how much was supposed to be collected and one is the Abad the total if you go to the set that page right there you can see the total where Jack is no no I meant on the total page this one there should be a negative on there I don't think well the negative is the abatements so this these are all positive this one's different this is different this is for the the real estate this one um if it's an abatement and a negative number that means they what more money that doesn't make any sense construction I don't there's also a question if we have an overv value is they all well how does that work that one that was where overv value but would they get AB baited with nothing only partially what built yeah yeah but so this is say we owed money beginning back to we owe money back to them and a lot of times mun will take into consideration payments that were made so that might be why it's showing negative as well shows okay what so do you remember there was one where they hadn't completed construction and we were funded money back oh that I think that's the situation with that and Unice takes into consideration if they've made payments so that's reason for the negative you can look at it here I don't want to apprciate thank you are are you reasonably satisfied on this one because the net I can double check I think I still have that spreadsheet 15,000 I just didn't know why the the transaction happened where was Zero and well these see these are bment totals and these are the refund totals in some cases we don't refund the entire batement because they probably haven't paid the entire oh that's a good point okay and yeah in Motor Vehicles it isn't always a full ab I okay depends when they took the vehicle off the roof all well this one I still I don't understand this one yet you signed it so you understand it be a reversal this I this is us giving money back we have a reversal on so I put the explanation if it was a reversal that's the same it's the same one is that the same one yeah we had to do a reversal on that one so that explain that's why on that particular one that's the oh yes if we had this one first it would have been easier with the other ones okay for that that property yeah yeah I was not going to sign it until I knew now I know I'll sign it well good I don't have to figure out where I put that spreadsheet we all need to sign that one sorry we need to sign this one too hey Linda just to help me understand is we have an error in Billing and then we have an overvalue yeah now the error in Billing is on our side we just what does that mean um we for the is it a motor vehicle or is that a real estate I think this is real estate real estate personal property it's this are you asking about this particular one 6,500 no I'm asking about this one what are the what is the origins of these when it says overvalue over value that's but the error in Billing line it might have been an item that um like if we had new construction and they were charged for the building I think that might be one of the ones where we have to go by June 30th for new construction and it was picked up in the fourth quarter bilding oh sorry the last page is on the same thing you don't want that well actually we need a copy for thex there a couple erors yeah have you sign that okay so just two errors then two down the bottom yeah what were they I guess transcribing it this one this one is um this is real estate oh personal and personal property so I knew that one was personal property okay that was an error in buing last year too okay s right here yeah well some of it was okay this is all the same one it's just three copies to sign okay okay thank you welcome still have it ni too all the yeah and it has the detail we weren't kidding when we said you'd be signing we've been piling these up for a while ask the Easter Bunny for a stamp yeah we do need that we really do yeah need what a stamp we need a stamp yeah do you have any budget for a stamp yeah yeah well we we have to find out what size it is and get the line and have your all sign you know as soon as you get it munice will change yeah probably so the same part of that revised sign it twice assessment sheet that I gave you earlier this is the commitment total commitment and that was I think there's two of them there have two pages this is st's total commitment all the admitted and revised bills that we submitted to Gateway and there's one for the tax collector and one for the accountant right that's was asking these are these the same yeah cuz we have to give one to each one they have to have their own sign copy okay wait till then we have to retain a copy these are all motor vehicle the remainder what do you do all day make copies no we didn't make copies we printed those right off this system new printer we got a new printer a new color printer which we got a color printer now y m oh but these are black and white yeah she's thrill we we need the color for our Butters okay is there another one in here you need three of these right same one again 6591 two yeah but is there another one 6591 do you need two copies of these looks like the same one yeah we um yeah we need two copies not this one for the um accountant yes it is right here there one so there's another one okay is there another one that's one right below it you're here appear to be four cop multiple copies of at least three three copies of this there one for our book one for the town account and one for the tax collector oh you were testing us just to see if we're remembering okay that's all right and then this one you this is an extra copy of one that you signed before individual we need more copies yeah okay this is that one thank you there only two of this yeah I asked about that they only need cuz it's the most who took the P I think that one might have been in the you asked about it but thank you I got distracted now we first now those are dup duplicates is the pile going down I hope it is well we have that to go through in executive we have all this once we get through executive yeah that's [Music] yeah we go I don't see two of that one but this motor vehicle is only one copy I don't know what it there might be one mixed up someplace it looks familiar could have gotten away from the crowd and escap be in here some it escaped from the crowd this is one that escap called document no I'm trying thank that hey why are you waiting did you get an electronic version of this yeah you did you did too I did send your email Heather okay several weeks ago I just gone you did oh you were on it I saw you I believe it yeah it's kind of like reading Darwin Origin of Species kind okay there there's three here and two here okay why are some three and some two printer issues I'm just seeing if I can count I've had some issues with munus unfortunately I've had to use Ring's computer because sometimes I log in and I have playes with x's in them mun doesn't open up for her and and I cannot get into it so we've been having to use Arenas and we put in tickets to tech support yeah how long you put the ticket in i' I've got one in there too what's that again a ticket oh yes yeah um take forever or no no and then um suar it has been great contact oh this is this is for me that's the omitted yeah that's for you the issue is that munus has spent about 3 hours working on that and then I have the issue back again oh Jack special delivery this one two more there's two more sheets to side oh side underneath yeah we hide them from you thank you I baited in full okay okay thank thank you checking a minute make sure we did it right you know is there more uh I think Jack's got the last one oh that's it thank you payroll billing errors anything else we need to do we don't do payroll anymore no um okay thank you moving on to the next item update on neighborhood review team proposal uh yes we met and then I had a bunch of personal business which hopefully will be resolved in the next two weeks and then I'll be reaching out to all those members again to see their Avail availability um going after that uh because I think some people were hoping to be done by the end of the summer um so as soon as I get done with that other stuff that I have to take care of I will be reaching out to them sounds great thank you okay uh Bri status of the roll out of the website okay um basically I have done nothing Well only because I've just I'm not physically I got slammed really hard this last month as we all do and uh so that one I said well I'm going to wait on that a little bit I have been thinking in terms of uh do I come back and the the iso piece are we really ready for it should I just put in there should I modify it I don't know about that piece uh there's a couple of them there's one that uh I really do want a site map on that I know we're kind of a little bit of an impass in terms of whether or not I can get the site map um I am attempting to which is coordinates with this as well uh I believe that Dan Ryan excuse me has finally found me a copy of Vio that I can use news so uh a copy meaning that you can in your existing emails you can open up a VI file but you can't do anything with it and for that matter you can't build or charts or flow charts or anything like that so I was going to build the site map out of a buo file because I can build it in my mind jet but no one else has that software so I wanted to be consistent with that so that's my hold up but in actuality how much energy I put into it not a lot it's just been out of my personal control i' I'd like to make a suggestion yeah there's a hell of a lot of stuff that got changed that got updated we have it's it's a great job I think there are three things that if we take them off for now and add them on later yeah any reference to ISO because we don't have a relationship with ISO and we don't have a commitment to do ISO for the town so just take that out we can be added later uh take out the org chart and work breakdown structure because we have not agreed to that yet once we've agreed to it we could put in there and the third thing is the site map which we know has been a difficult thing that we have not been able to get yet but if we take it out of there declare success and then move on each of these items individually rather than holding up the whole project yeah I I don't have any disagree with it I'm going to continue doing that stuff but I you know let's let's get something out there yeah you canate it and yeah it's confusing in terms of if people finding stuff and things like that without a site map I don't understand that at all but I for the sake of keeping the thing going yeah I can do that real easy and uh so and then we can add that later so yeah we're going to have that's a good suggestion if if you I can make those changes make those three changes MH and we can I think declare success and get a heck of a lot of information out there that yeah right now we can't get access to people can't get access to and it's it's just sitting there waiting so let's let's okay going pull those three and and I don't want to I don't want to say we we pulled back the the U goal line because I don't think we did no well there's a whole question of even revision control that goes along with that all of that stuff y uh well and the the problem is that our it organization maintains a revision when they make changes but it's we'd have to every time we want to look at something or if we want to do an update so there's a whole revision control piece that I also believe needs to be added in addition to those other three y uh but I'm willing to say let's just put it out there it's not going to be our best foot forward but it's going to be a foot forward yeah right that Sarah should we should we vote on that now I mean I I I I I can do that you can vote on but I'm going to do it I I vot we publish a website with as it is with the and um you should check the property had the iso org chart s map rision control um as we agree on them going forward okay yeah and that's always going to be happening anyway like you I'm going to use your quote it's never done we are Dynamic right it'll never be done so uh I will you want want to vote on that you want I don't care but I will send that to you hopefully in my daughter's showing up here on Thursday he should be here all weekend so I can get started on it NE next week don't I I should put my mask on I'm sorry but yes I will pull those out but I I would like to amend the thing to pull those three components out uh and uh and I will send them off to you this week go in favor why we need to make a second oh a second I'm sorry s second okay we'll get that out favor I having you know we're backing off on some fairly small items that will become large maybe but I wanted to say we've made tremendous progress you've done a tremendous job of pulling together a whole bunch of Divergent information P Divergent WR the wrong word diverse Divergence not the right word everybody diverse information and I think we have what will will be one of the best websites in the state it's it's going to be it's going to be and uh so thank you for all your efforts and I know it's taken you you'll see you thank me after it's all voted I haven't I haven't discovered well put way we can thank you on what's accomplished already right significant I'm look at all the things we we pushed out there yeah I'm I'm really happy with it and by the way I'm really glad Brian you sign that you suggested we take a little bit of a summer break cuz summer has been tough all the way around yeah um that's it on the things that were on the agenda 41 things that I wanted to what you had 41A section 41 that's the deferral that's old business that's under postponed topics oh okay I'm sorry I have some progress on that oh you want to give us an update on that okay still on the agenda so feel free okay thank you uh yeah if you read and just I don't know if you ever had a chance to to see that all the things that are popping up but uh in the papers in terms of average values and things like that but the effect of people getting evicted is devastating you know it shortens your life up really does and so um that gives me my focus right now is the 41A I have been talking to Becky actually I pulled the document down and I started off I've discovered this I've been able to map out the organization chart in terms of what the Department of Revenue looks like and I've called all but the top guy and I uh put two calls into the Shan crony the senior Deputy Commissioner and after about the second time I said oh maybe he really does want to see an email something that you guys brought up Linda I think you said don't call me email me I think you made that statement don't call me email me no that might have been Becky oh Becky oh okay in either case oh probably that's consistent cuz uh Sean then turned around and sent an email to me nice response back and he passed the ball off to Chris Wilcox which is a bureau chief uh called Chris a couple time once and next thing you know I find out I call Becky to say Becky am I I don't want to cause any stir in there I don't want anybody ticked off me she goes no his direct Scott Santiago the director of local assessment has the question and guess where it ended up back with Becky Becky Becky so Becky and I gone back and forth and gave me some ideas on where I could go look I was actually able to make contact with the the town of Plymouth which is one of the largest towns in the state of Massachusetts and I talked spoke with an Dunn who's their lead assessor um interestingly Enough by the way they have five members on their board assessors I know okay Moving on but in either case um she's giv me a whole pile of information with regard to how they handle it that's why I want to understand the mechanics their mechanics are that essentially when there's a 41A they actually keep a log of it it gets filed every year that log updates it in meantime it's filing leans and the leans in that case would probably have to go to my lean uh The Collector of and the collector of taxes so that's again got me say ran I really need a flow need to build a flowchart cuz now we have to go out and share with the rest of the organization what are your roles going to be and we have to be able to keep track uh and they have a log book by person organization keeping track of how much they abated each year because they don't have toate the same amount can't go over more than 50% of the value but excuse me they uh they they keep a full record of that and therefore or if the person should decide that they're going to sell a house they can immediately say Hey you owe this or get that over the tax collector and give them compare our numbers with the tax collector's numbers you want to always keep a couple sets of books going and so oh that's pretty that was very interesting I told an I would be mapping that out and sending it over to her to see if it Compares with others this another town we want to go check it's a city it's a wubber see what they do in wubber I did contact and they don't really have anybody that's participating the interesting part about it is they've only got 10 or 12 people actually participate in the program and what the SC they meaning um sorry Plymouth Plymouth I'm sorry and Plymouth um and the big scare is not the banks it's the people themselves who qualify but they're concerned that you're putting a assessment on there you know you're coming coming back and tying that into uh and all my words are getting messed up here but uh another evaluation uh statement on the house you're putting a bill on the house and they essentially a lean a lean excuse me that's the word I was trying to find so uh yeah give me the co brain and so anyway uh the lean is the big issue they do have people that the banks went along with and I suspect the banks went along with because you know if the house is worth a million bucks you can only go to 500 the bank feels pretty safe about taking the second position on that and for that matter all the companies meantime uh Becky did send me the forms that they would we'd be asking him to fill out and now we have to just get draw it all out and so that's where we are now is that consistent with what you understand Reena and Linda 41A 41A the referral yes uh yeah um but it's really difficult for people to qualify for that and it's changed so dramatically and there even uh there notifications with regard to the circuit breaker the values have changed you can go up to on the home value your home can now be worth $ 1,50,000 you can have an income of about [Music] $8,000 uh after you know all all your income so it has changed dramatically but in the last year and again most people don't know about it that's the real issue they don't know about it so we soon as we have the flow charts done we can go out now she an did mention that the town votes on uh how much they want to allow uh the V the person to have an income for and I was asking her what about the new circuit breaker she goes That's supposed to be coming up at the next town meeting with with them to see if they want to vote that higher but it 41A is not optional but the amount of income is apparently and I I've got to yeah but that's what she was saying and but I'm not not real sure what I'm reading and what she saying St uh not Becky no an from Plymouth so she doesn't have that many of them Becky did I say Becky no no we should I did WR yeah Becky says actually the town barely doesn't have anything it's a state law the town doesn't have to vot to the amount the amount I will I will do that the amount being voted on by Town not set by state and income that was income limit income limit and the interesting thing about it is going to be the important thing for town right well there's no Financial impact to the town per se because what happens you take that 8% and you sell it you know you you or you or you collect the 8% interest yourself even the interest rate is flexible in Plymouth they're at 4% but on the other hand and if you sell the house and you've got a six-month grace period uh it goes up to 16% they they really want their money back and so uh but meantime you're earning interest and so we my thought was well whatever the interest rate would be you know what the banks are charging is what we would probably want to charge and that gives the people a chance to say well maybe I don't want to use the deferral I want to go and and get a different form of a mortgage or something but we offer them something some sort of help and uh and so that's where I am right now thank you for the resarch hopefully hopefully our friend Ryan I got to go do the download with him in the next couple of days yeah it sounds like it um listening it sounds like we need to check what an said about the income voting with with Becky with exactly right we're going to write it all up and then send it off to Becky and I'm going to send it off to and the Flo and if there's any other if I can get any information from the town of wubber well I will do that thank you so before we close there's some other things I want to address um for the past mostly year I've been establishing the agendas I really think that's a function of the principal assessor um so not necessarily for August but by September I'd really like to have you take over the establishment of a preliminary at least agenda if that's okay okay uh tell me that's a problem and I'll back off from it but I think that that's where it belongs uh we also have to set up all the logistics for arranging the meetings we have to talk to somebody to get the room somebody to get the zoom somebody to get the video um and since all that is here in in the building I prefer well most of that's here in the building I prefer that also so setting up the meetings and creating the agendas I think is something I would like to move over to the principal Assessor um and you can push back on that if you feel like it I just want to see how we do with these two people that we're going to hire and that's why one of the reasons I don't want to start anything right off the bat um the other thing that I want to address is beginning of September I think we need to go back to two times a month yes yeah because of the timing um because we're heading up toward the November time frame when we have to do the classification hearing we had a bunch of other stuff coming up we're doing you know Happ year we have to do reval of some kind um so I think we really need to resume twice a month now having said all that I'm not available the first the first one is the first Monday is a holiday the second Monday this room's not available I am available on the 16th and the 30th of September and I was going to suggest that those are the dates that this room should be available so I was going to suggest those dates as tentative I might have an issue on the 16th of September I I'll have I won't be able to meet on the 16th of September oh you're busy yes you are I might have been so uh maybe maybe I'll take care of the agenda through the through you want to go September well you want to do it me there's no way we could do it another day than a than Monday Mondays have worked out best for us for availability of this location we could go to a different location but we don't know what the availability of those rooms are so uh I I will continue to hold all this stuff you know you won't be at the meeting on the 16th I won't I won't be able to attend on the 16th but Reena Reena Reena will be here so yeah maybe we hope right now I don't have all of the activities that change don't know when everybody's schedule is so I'm going to throw tensively the 16th and 30th and you guys can tell me that works nothing changes that works yeah your just send your email calendar y that's absolutely fine so I want to cover that um before we CU we had to talk about upcoming meetings anyway uh anything else we need to address we have no one here from the public is anybody on line I don't see anybody no closing comments from the on outline no okay any closing comments internally from those of us here at the board or either of you guys there's no other comments yeah that's right okay right just a com Mr jman you're doing a great job thank you it's a lot of work I know I know but I got the summer off yeah you yep uh then I will entertain a motion to move into executive session so moveed second somebody has to read that oh jeez don't ask me to read anything right now fine um I motion that we suspend open meeting and enter into executive session to return to open session after executing exec of session under purpose 7 to comply with or act under the authority of any general or special law or Federal grant and aid requirements and that's enough okay and do you want me to read this yeah I think I have to right H go ahead yeah and so our for our executive session applications for abatement or exemption under this chapter shall accept in proceedings before the County Commissioners the appell at tax board or Court of the Commonwealth be be open only to the inspection of the assessors the commissioner the deputies clerks and assistants of either the assessors or the commissioner and such other officials or designated private Auditors of the Commonwealth chapter 59 section 60 of Massachusetts General law is the law being cited and so she she read that so you you can second second that yeah now for the discussion all in favor I I we are going to be moving into executive session now so let 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