##VIDEO ID:CGoucqYKjKs## will be another minute or two before we start so be patient please I need to shut this I said please you got to turn down the volume of fashion sending the volume back at you no the I have I always bring more than one pair start it okay we're we're on Zoom now did you tell tell Heidi we're going to take over or whoever's on there Heidi are you there is she no more feedback right turned down the volume on that can you hear the echo you need to your mic too you put in here right yeah but normally it says waiting on host I never got that yeah it's like you were automatically the host today huh I think can you go full screen I can double check yeah you're in charge of the screen there are two participants you might want to click on participants right there public access oh he's got it yep okay so that's um wish a good work on the lighting look at that anyway uh seeing that Zoom is up and our television is up we're going to start the meeting um I hear a noise um in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast live over the lunenberg public access channel on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page which is https col www.fb.com lunberg dpublic D- cable Dash 157 4277 20 let me start over 157 427 270 97535 slash I got it right uh the meeting uh can be found at the lunenberg access YouTube channel after the meeting uh it will be held in person at this location which is the bolot room in town hall um members of the public are welcomed to attend this in-person meeting please note that while an option for remote attendance and our participation is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting will not be suspended nor terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with a particular interest in any specific item on this agenda should make plans for inperson versus virtual attendance accordingly for remote attendance from a computer please use the link below I'll read it to you to join the public meeting webinar to join the zoom meeting it's https us02 web. zoom. usj 881 4266 3258 question mark the password is pwb equals capital O lowercase ba uppercase j lowercase b uppercase QD lowercase BR the number one lowercase y capital J the number five lowercase n 28 lowercase i ZR uppercase D lower lowercase V uppercase c m o u x lowercase U uppercase BTS do1 meeing ID is 881 4266 3258 and the passcode is 97211 from a telephone you can dial the toll-free number 888 475 4499 and enter that webinar number which I'll read again 881 422 3258 pound sign if you not registered for Zoom you'll be asked your name and an email address uh note no participant ID is needed just press the pound sign when asked uh telephone users may dial star9 to request to speak after joining the meeting computer and app users may use the raised hand feature to request to speak the agenda list all topics which may be discussed at the meeting are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed and May in fact be discussed in other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law I will now call us to order do we have anybody on Zoom does it look like doesn't look like it okay uh we're going to I'll call for op first we'll uh introduce ourselves please I'm Brian leond I'm John RB it Sarah Cammer Linda McQuade Reena squeezy thank you uh we're going to open up to comments from the board and I would like you to limit your comments to anything that's not on the agenda so if you have comments on something on the agenda we'll talk about it during that agenda item are there any comments yes outside the agenda outside the agenda a I could roll a couple of men but there's some others that sitting outside of the well if you make them quick we can do the ones that are on your not on the agenda okay uh when will the T Linda I had some I shared with you some of the conversation with regard to the Selman the question becomes when will will we be able to releas release Q3 tax bill on time uh we hope to do that uh we um have Vision appraisal coming in tomorrow and I'm hoping to get the la3 in if all goes well uh and it's a little too premature but we should be fine I mean it it's kind of typical right now it's there's a lot of towns that have not submitted in Gateway because the vendors are running behind so we're not the only Town that's and and we're not really behind behind if we were the end of October we would be but if I may we are behind the calendar that we had set because we are dependent upon our software vendor uh to provide us with the information we're supposed to get it tomorrow yes he'll be over here tomorrow anyway we know well we're supposed to he should be ready to go so he should give us all the information we need tomorrow and then it's a question of how quickly we can process okay essentially has and we also are dependent upon State approvals as we go so those things may take some time we don't know right question came up has a certified uh has our new growth been certified no I I can't do that until I submit the la3 so I'm okay so that's tot and we obviously we don't know the Le Levy limit right now and uh the assessor's office you'll have to you'll have to speak very clearly cuz with that nobody know what you said you said Levy limit okay yeah they they they're wondering what the levy limit is and right now it appears that there was a Target date of November the 5th for the classification hearing does that look re realistic or it at this point we haven't even been approved or we've submitted anything so that's kind of difficult to say right now so you got two weeks and stuff okay it's my understanding having listened to the uh selectman's meeting twice now uh that they're going to be inviting us in next week to help clarify the articles but we'll get to that um when we get to the article section okay the part number two is um if I checked the uh agenda and minutes site there's a couple different ways we can go through our section or you can go to the town section and I'm not sure it's working because I kept clicking on them and nothing was coming through do I talk to car about that what were you clicking on uh I went into the the excuse me go through the assessor site no I went through the town site so I I shouldn't be notifying Cara we'll talk about the website and stuff Al together at once so we okay we can get that okay um did we ever with regard to the home the that was real expensive that we haven't caught up on with regard to the building permits being closed I believe she'll get to that during her going to get to that okay I'll get that um we got the hearing K nailed um are we going to put out some literature with regard to the HERO program I did receive a phone call from somebody and he said well how much are you going to get uh the veterans exemption with regard to cars I I don't know all the details on that and then uh yeah changes in how eligibility Motor Vehicle registrations go and is there an income limit is there any more information on the hero piece than what we have right now not yet no that's all we have and all the people that had uh the 22e exemption uh the letter was sent out to them and they were granted a abatement for one vehicle yeah uh and those were already mailed out and they have been processed and forwarded to the tax collector okay so we going to leave any literature out on the a town meeting on on this for them to pick up because it did that's what must have prompted the call oh well we can I mean I can print out a flyer or make a copy of that but that's all I have for information that's all we have right now so they're looking for more information but okay I don't know do we have it's only the veterans that receive the 100% disability so those people who are eligible have already been notified right yeah okay they've all received a letter so the person who's 60% disabled this doesn't affect him at all no okay only 100% only 100% okay um question and and probably my memory is wrong the dimensional regul regulations that were flipped around is this going to require a revote they're still doing an investigation we'll figure out what we need to do one we figured out what the real problem is okay and it will require I believe at some point a revote but that won't be happening in November okay just keeping that going uh I'm not going to touch that a question I'm trying to find this uh data analytics resources piece and it doesn't seem to be showing up anywhere and then the last one I had wasn't all that old and it hadn't didn't have a reflection of our last time meeting where we raise the age to uh lower the age to 65 and increase the exemption up to 100,000 I can't find it it has it been has anybody looked or anything like that uh I have the link to it uh I have to go into my email but that's something I can can you yeah I can forward you that okay I just don't know if it it didn't last piece of information have a month or two ago Data Bank database was not updated Data Bank was not updated so that's the town clerk does that notification to right right so we just send her a note if it hasn't that's all okay that's that's it for me cool camera no comment thank you none for me uh let's move on to the Assessor's report okay I have my monthly report she sometimes does every two weeks but you know it's monthly thank you so much thank so um we did um same one settle and we process three uh real estate uh abatements for three FY 2024 ATP cases and those totaled um almost $5,000 $497 36 so right now we have no ATB cases outstanding wow they must be getting lonely and we did process the uh motor vehicle ayment letters and the certificates to the hero act which is the 22e applicants that we just discussed so those went out um have you started receiving any back yet we have yes we have gotten the 22 actually we've got quite a few exemptions exemptions yeah applications they don't expect them to be complete but if they're you know it's nice to know that they're processing through fairly great adequately well I heard if came in pretty quickly actually people get a chance to get some money back oh yeah yeah no coup um you know they filing for for January but they um they're good about there been almost all of them are back I believe yeah thank you yeah every day someone comes in with them so so it's good and as far as if there checks been processed I can't comment on that but we have done it on on everything on our end as far as they in munice process the letters went out finalized the FY 2025 growth and uh we're just waiting on Vision to come in tomorrow y if I could with regard to the bait's vehicle excise yeah I watched yourself and going nuts trying to process all those and what we had to go through when someone came in and and the multiple steps and we're getting swamp appears based on the pile it would seem that this swamped and I did ask my wife's permission if I'm allowed to uh go in and help process them with you at your request I got a dirty look and then I think I might have a union problem I have to join the union so I'm I'm going to have to defer but how are you doing are you okay well yeah we u i mean we still have a pile but what I have Arena's back I she she's coming back next week y nice y yeah for 20 hours good to have a back at least we have some help which is good uh What I have started doing is we get pieces of paper with no application and sometimes no explanation cancel plate receipt so I've started to resend those back with an application because to be filled out to be filled out and with the a note just to please provide the information needed if we can figure it out or do it but some of them we we get it from the tax collector they send it in with their bill and it just we have no contact information whatsoever so there's a lot more to it than I thought yeah it really is yeah yeah but um so yeah I've started to do that but I hope to get through the rest of that pile next week but right now the priorities on Vision coming in getting everything in Gateway and speaking of Motor Vehicle we had about 30 tax abatements in the past month we've had that have come in um and our data collector continues to follow up on building permits she's doing a great job we're trying to get caught up but at this point we're holding off starting we can't enter anything into the uh database until Vision finishes all their adjustments and were approved and all that so she's still doing inspections and getting ready for uh after we've turned over the new database so does that ask my love to ask that question am in the right section now to uh talk about with regard to the abatement request for or excuse me going out and assessing people and sending them a tax bill on where we haven't in the past knew they were there because of because you wanted to know about the the the large expensive home that okay yes sorry yeah and uh a little better back research we can go back it's not just one year we can go back up to three years if we had uh not collected so we could go and push that back is that the intent you're talking about real estate uh yeah or motor vehicle real estate uh real estate we we can't we can only do like a supplemental bill or maybe go back one year for admitted but we can't go back any yeah I I was told it was three we could go back as far as I'll defer on saying that however this person is knowledgeable about that he says you can go back about you can go back three maybe they meant motor vehicle no cuz you can go back go back three years on Motor Vehicle yeah the supplemental bill it's for the year if they just the year you're in you cannot if we drop the ball we let finish okay I'm sorry sorry just Linder has um I have I have one that was finished in 22 a property that was finished and uh I am issuing a supplemental bill because that wasn't picked up but I can only go back for till the day of AR to the day so from June 30th of last year up until uh no July 1st of last year up until June 30th of this year so I will be sending that out and that bill is uh 61 $12.48 that was the the property that you mentioned earlier just the building just the building alone they paid on the land they already paid building wasn't picked up right so okay I'm sorry no now you can finish your question because I you than so if in this case it appears that the triggers that we would normally see as assessors would be that guess what we first got our building permit established for building that and then when it's closed out we get another trigger with this what wasn't closed out but the individual occupied the property for quite a while uh what what are what can we do there still is no closed permit uh we can't do I mean that's not that would be the building inspector and that was the prior building inspector so at this point we're it's just the supplemental just a supplemental bill that's as far as the assessors are concerned we can't do any more than we've done yeah right right so not our and once they close it out can we go back to the occupancy date even though they've closed out the permit later than that we have people that have moved into the houses before they've got their full permits well there is no occupancy date we don't know what that is cuz it wasn't closed so when did you start getting open. goov and it's we don't have that to go by we I that's why I can only go back from July 1st of 23 to junee 30th of 2024 to pick up the bill building so that's the trick then don't let them close it out is that why people in New Hampshire don't put the front porches on the house we don't know don't want to speculate on that no no no there was actually a legal thing where the building didn't you couldn't get an occupancy permit is that what happened here perhaps or no no no no it just uh it just was missed and uh well unfortunately we and I think it was the problem with you know you've had quite a few assess and and you've had quite a few building inspectors and you know um when Sheila was um here and she was working she would go in and get the list and put all the building permits on the cards uhhuh um in CJ and Sue Burns both did send out supplemental bills you know this is not new mhm it has been done the other assesses done have done it but it's just that you you know you had a gap in there and you know lack of personnel change in building inspectors change in office Personnel but Linda's done a great job and catching up with a lot of that so absolutely and my hats off to you Linda and and everybody else for pulling this back together again I'm just wondering what is our policy can we go back to when we believe they occupied a house because we have one in the process now that eventually got one and we that would mean my mind I got at least two that means I got a doesn't didn't you answer that when you said you can go back to a particular date yeah on supplemental new construction we can we can only go back from the date of occupancy and that's what we go by for new construction this other one was a unique case but we do go by the occupancy date and we bring it up to the number of days up to June 30th and that's how it's calculated on the building only there you go so did we uh what I don't have it with me I do have it with me but did we go to the building inspector and tell them or town manager and say hey here you go town manager wouldn't know but yeah I did notify the building inspector okay of it yeah and I don't know what he can do on his end but uh he was notified no so the fear is that we need me some sort of a car to say look we've discovered this make sure it gets closed out somewhere in town you know that's what you normally when he said car he means Ive action response yeah so just so thank you sorry not driving a car and for anybody out there we need a car so we can go drive around and find places we're doing that yeah and if you're in the so if you in your medical world is a Kappa but in either case we need that something like that Municipal world it's called what I don't know it is called thanks I'll remember that sure you you thank you L you do get all the notification she does get all the notifications the building inspector when people are doing things the way they're supposed to do right you know she gets the notification she does the inspection and for almost a full year we the building inspector decided not to put the stuff into the system this is a few years back and the current bilding official wants to put them in there and is trying to put them all in there so we can't go back and correct everything I'm just saying there's probably a few homes that we've missed that's all that's possib Sy if we find one we'll we'll ta I'll send you over we'll tax them I'll you over talk to thank you by the way I did want to compliment Brian jingis he is very good about helping us with op.gv and uh you know that's what we rely on official great yeah and he notifies us when the properties are complete so a final can be done so I found I found him to be very Cooperative uh collaborative so yes so we'll give him the seal of approval and send it well yeah don't do that he'll quit or ask for more money ior okay I'm sorry U and before you get off the motor vehicle excise tax we just got a rather another large mve commitment right we did and I was going to it's not on here right uh I didn't have a chance to put it on here no CU I did this before we just got that but um I was going to talk about that I don't know if you want to through it with the invoices when you have to sign all that stuff we can do it during invoices okay that's fine yeah I was going to bring that up uh and the goals when we go through the goals uh next month yeah I guess we've covered everything else sure actually for the remainder of this month and the next month prepar and complete the classification hearing submit la3 la4 actually la15 and La 13 and Gateway um so we hopefully get approved right away hire and interview a new administrative assessing assistant and uh theob job was just reposted and we had four applicants so hopefully there's an interview scheduled for Monday Linda brought it to our attention that it wasn't out on maao or MMA it was just on the lunenberg website so I went up to Julie and said it's not posted she said it is it's posted here and then she said oh and she reposted it and we got four applicants like within the day yeah so that that at least there's some interest makes workc thank you for noticing yeah one of them sounds promising so hopefully they're all promising they are all promising promise or anything never mind don't touch that that's it all I have our super thank you uh do we have minutes of October 2nd or September 4th you we still need to modify the September 4th so yeah there's a couple of numbers in the September 4th meeting that was hoping you could help me with okay because they came from your report hang on um Brian graciously highlighted them for me I wasn't there but the numbers looked fluky yeah and I I mean unless I'm specifically writing them down I don't remember the numbers so it is this one right here like how many abatements were actually received how many abatements were received said oh okay came up as 10,000 I'm sure it wasn't 10,000 and then the 41 C values that were the fourth in the second October 2 and the 4th weren't there okay yeah all right they didn't show up think we got anything I think I have I didn't see it okay I didn't see it okay after a while I was like so we have no minutes from the second to review and the fourth we going to have toy one one more time one more time fine there's a lot of numbers we've been backed up about eight or 10 before we backed up two or three is actually better than most of the organizations in town because if you look you can find any uh any well we can find the agendas can't find minutes for beans I don't know if I forgot and they're trying to catch up but we all know how hard it is to catch up yes somebody should make some kind of like Town parody song about agendas and minutes and placing not me not I some of them are figured out how to not worry about having agendas a minutes we uh well in some cases you don't need them in some cases you do and they're not um so we will postpone the discussion for October 2nd and September 4th until the next meeting uh we have invoices expense vote is there anything else you wanted I forgot to mention about um the uh la4 numbers and the the interim adjustments from Vision I made preliminary numbers that you put going to work on tomorrow yeah I actually put them all in Gateway tonight haven't obviously submitted them but they were entered but I made a copy of all the information oh so this is the L this is the la4 you get the read and these are the that's the interim but you don't want me to share my highlights in here what that in this is from vision okay you want to go through the la4 first and just have us few highlights or you can pick one yeah you're in charge s so okay completely is she is so um I don't have the comparison from last year but uh we we have um a total of um it says 52 5266 the uh resident number of Residential Properties is 3635 3 excuse me 3,635 Condominiums 453 and um we go further down the list but the total is 5,266 for a parcel count what's 133 Linda 130 through 132 130 is um that's land oh just plain open pieces of land huh 106 is a it's with a either a garage or a bun yeah it's vacantly vacant and with some an out building an out building but not a residence or not a res yep so we've got 588 so you've got the total for class one and um the total and again this is preliminary uh down the bottom there um is 2 Bill 393 M 5897 180 total property value yeah yeah and then we have we'll do comparisons later on last year I don't have that data right now this is basically uh latebreaking news right so that's just prelim right now we again we just got this information today from Vision we have a um as far as the interim we have our adjustments on the the land we have a new land curve and there was a 6% adjustment made on the the land curve was no uh really no increases on the site indexes our median so the implication of that is the the uh balance everybody's gone up by about 6% on their land yes but no one neighborhood has gone up significantly or up or down there has been very little change to the mix really yep yep mrman s that doesn't incorporate your anticipated uh oh neighborhood stuff no and the uh the median on our class one is uh 94 excellent and it's pretty consistent uh the condos are the same um it's 95 on the um three families and the apartment buildings is 96 are you looking at the codes there on the median yep summary um yep as far as our uh median you want to explain what that means to anybody who might be watching oh yeah um it's our assessment sales ratio right y so basically we target being it somewhere in the mid 90s yeah and we're coming in right at 94% it's pretty consistent so it's and it's pretty consistent so um so Mr chairman if we just clarify my own if we assume that a p of properties this type of property is selling about 100,000 Y in this case our appraisals are coming in saying 94 95,000 so so we're not right we're not at 100% not at 100% not at 103 or whatever anything like that you don't want to be at or over 100% exactly right so we're actually being very you also don't want to be down at 90 right right we're giving money away we're not bringing nothing but well this is valuation it's just valuation valuation gold taxes yet yet yeah so that's a good number goldilock Zone yes we're in the goldilock zone like that and probably another important number is our median single family price is 5 sale price is 540,000 and our median appraised which is in our cama is 52,800 so we're not even at the the sale price so yeah yeah we're below that people would be shocked to know that all of the houses are at 500,000 too you know any other highlights in this you want to bring up Analyze This by you know Colonials the count and what the median sale price is and the median appraised it breaks it down by the style and then it does the same thing for the condos so into two families I can read off what the two family is of median sale price is$ 4575 and in our cam system is 428,000 is our median which leaves us a ratio of 94 yep that's 94 The Three Families the median sale price is 574 th000 and in our CA the median is 542 uh 2 right and uh which rounds to for 95 which what which rounds to 95% so we're right in that ballpark y Medan assessment to sale ratio is 95 so where we're right where we need to be this is um a very concise set of chort compared to what we reviewed last year thank you well last year was a full fiveyear is this what you would typically see on the inrim years yeah yeah yeah and we were spoiled my God what am I going to do with all this data yeah cuz it doesn't show all the individual sales and and you don't have to do that in the inrim years no but you have to enter your La um three into uh Gateway and that goes it's all the individual sales and that gets put in yeah and we can't of course do that yet yeah not till he hopefully tomorrow that's that's the plan got it get the four and three right thank you it's all the LA's yes la3 15 grabbit Mr chairman this report is is going to g a lot of interest and uh I was wondering should we try and put that up on news or something in our website got to wait for approval yeah we oh it's got to wait for approval this is all preliminary okay that's what it says okay so they'll just have to wait even even this data I just wanted you know mentioned it but i r the report but until tomorrow until the la3 comes out and you see the qualified sales we have to get confirmation on a bunch of numbers tomorrow and then we have to get some approvals back from the state so it's not tomorrow that it'll be suddenly be released okay at least as long as far as I understand it yep okay and it depends too on what number you are in the queue for the state well we don't know how far down the list we are and we're not the only town that is waiting all of these companies are and I've been told us by four assessors that they have not submitted yet they're still waiting on either Patriot Vision so it's not uncommon so while we were being very anxious and keeping we kept bugging them everybody else is doing the same thing yeah it was an impressive number of polite emails I with some point you would have stopped being polite with with a with a deadline I'm sorry if you are thinking this time it's just not going to work I was trying it was w it was well executed I I very appreciative that I big old when was drinking my coffee this morning oh okay you want to move on to uh invo one invoice you have we have one invoice I just have one and this is on the interim from Vision first part of it wow that's so much less well it's not the whole bill it's not the whole bill but it's also not the 5e right thank you for doing so do you want us to sign this somewhere um yes or initial it or ini do you want us to put a date on it too put today's date yeah thank you for uh indicating that and you can read off the amount if you'd like for the yeah studio audience the Sor yes the intrum partial bill right it's a partial bill it's $800 yeah and after looking at that report you can see it's well worth it mhm yeah it's a report it is a report oh I should have put my name there I can't follow instructions for beans oh there's a place to put an a we always ignored that haven't we I didn't bring any beans we bring candy candy candy let me know when you're ready over here that's not you want to hold them down here Linda or do you there's only a couple okay okay thank you that's it that's the only but I have other stuff for you to we have we have a I'll call it a billing error um I was going to do the commitment next oh do the commitment first so the next motor vehicle commitment is commitment number five it's and that is a total of $71,200 one89 and that is 504 motor vehicle bills okay there's two warrants to sign one for the tax collector and one for the accountant and and this is the actual you've already checked them all so we're or checked spot checked I checked and made sure that the exempt properties were not in the file we told them to take U Kelly and Ryan to take those out I don't know if you'd mind signing that he said for for the tax call who huh too much stuffff to sign settlement I he's on down the road that's a good sound okay thank you thank you thank you okay thank you more I have um I have more let me see I may keep all the motor vehicle together and then we'll do the real estate so here's more motor vehicle abatements and these are just duplicate copies if you could just these are the same ones just cuz I have to give one copy to the uh tax collector this signature lines right well paper it's just the same thing kind of over and over but stated in one different way as a single line mhm MH that bothers me so much a lot of trees we do have so much pay buts did you want to mention the fire department oh yeah this is just a copy we had an inspection of the fire department yesterday oh no they went in that back room oh he went in your closet oh God saw the closet and what did they tell you they said you have to get rid of some of that well not get rid of it but we need to move it to another location so you know you can burn it where it is they're going to find the location and then we're going to have to go through and and we have to keep duplicate that we have to go through the retention list too we do certain things you can a permanent records see would that be like a a senior tax workof that would maybe a grade card oh as far as the work efforts well did how much of that is the only thing is if there's vements they can't look at any of those well we need to look at that a little closer I think they can if they're working on behalf of the town I think they have I think they may be able to let me put it that way in the past I always felt that way too but uh someone I had a conversation with someone that said we might they might be able to do some of that so we'll look at it well they would have to understand that this is right private private INF um as part of the ATB cases this was another property that a remainder had to be abated so this was this we had discussed this prior this was just so this is just to get our signatures on something we've already decided yeah just so that it can be processed and finalized okay thank you y this is an extra of that okay oh yeah okay um I remember that yeah I remember the amount so let's stop looking okay this is what Jack asked me to print out but we can save that for later I have that if you okay we're not doing that yet yeah we won't do that but um this is that a reversal of that abatement oh just we had we had this is a property upon which we there were had been a fire we' done a full abatement then we did a AED a supplemental was it it was omitted it was um was supplemental it was a supplemental it a supplemental Bill and then and then based on the instructions that we got from the the tax collector we did an administrative abatement again which now upon reflection we didn't really need to do the administrative abatement so we need to avoid excuse me not avoid avoid administrative abatement so this just this is a clerical get the thing fixed it's just hard to figure out so at first I wrote void on the abatement okay and then if you could all sign down here and then this is so that it can be this is can be the finalized so then there's the munus action yeah so there's the abatement action and the munus action this is the abatement and that's m okay so there's two copies of the yeah this looks familiar we sat through several meetings to make sure this was right do you this one oh yeah that would be great on that I got invited to the finance team meeting for this you go did you really only for this is Afters uh there was no afterwards we talked for quite some time and then that's all I have disbanded the whole team there's not a quorum anymore oh they they just fill it I think Tom just found somebody didn't he to do what the finance committee no we just lost another Finance Committee Member well chair resigned recently I know it's the hard time of the year to lose them this when we both went nuts I don't okay I don't want to wonder about that right now what is this three of the same thing well I have to be signed did you go wait didn't we just signed that we signed the abatement this is the munus AC oh okay okay sorry reverse abatement okay this is the infam this is the infamous reverse this is the probably so we not only had to void we then had to reverse the mo stuff right right right that was the back and forth thank you sir thank you okay this is the okay while it was abatement related we weren't talking about we weren't me this specific property so I felt it was okay to do this in a public session yeah I agree that's all the stuff I have for you to sign thank God I know not as much as usual though it wasn't that bad it wasn't bad no giving your hard you they haven't changed the focus the whole night it's always on you oh oh that's cuz she's got the M she's got the the zoom oh oh oh it's hers that's the zoom camera I think the camera shots are actually yeah Bri you and I don't stand a chance well right take a picture of something that old yeah this old um next item is follow upon upon modifications of the website oh jeez okay here we go I believe that I sent you some folks some folks uh information with regard to the changes the tabs I put in there and and I think Linda did I I sent that over to you Linda I don't know if uh website yes you now have three tabs and did you not receive anything for me I did on the the changes the changes the we added the three tabs in that section motor vehicle abatement tax abatement and Maps yes okay y yeah and those are there right on the first page uh right under the assessors right under the assessors piece and and where the heck did I so there there's no so you had suggested a forms grouping was that just going to be a title above those forms or was it going to be something we had to click on if it's something to click on I don't really think it's a great idea if it's just a title above those forms then that's great that's where were okay uh see tax fa forms okay I just put the word forms right in here just the word form so it's not a click form not a click no link okay fine good that's I'm happy with that forms and have them go down and then uh here's an example here's the three forms the baitman applications excise V motor vehicle excise abatement application property abatement applications and lunberg G map that's fine that's them uh and so I was going to try and talk to car and see if I couldn't get at least a some sort of an image that would associate it with when they got there and uh yeah let's see let's get the link first if we get the image great if not cuz we need those up now cuz it's been too confus so what they do is they just basic click on it and it takes it right to uh the right site at the uh mask go right and stuff so it's a direct link and you don't have to sort through it and the three forms are there the tabs there and I'm sorry I thought I thought those links go out to the mass.gov they don't go out to our our the form Ser server the form on our server uh our server is that's where it takes you if you were to go to our okay as long as it takes us to the form it takes you to the form it takes you directly to the form dump you in there okay and uh give the example this is what you hit on that and this is where it's going to take you just the form just the form okay just the form and so if that's acceptable I'll go to Cara and well I was going to make a suggestion now we had we had really taken over the driving the website when we had Reena and we're trying to keep stuff off her shoulders but now that we have a full-time principal assessor and she's in the same building as the person that does the website I'd like to suggest that we actually have Linda take the changes to Cara and you want to take them and that way it's always right one spot we can we can decide on what the changes are Linda brings them to her and yeah I'm more than happy too uh I know it's putting more on Linda's shoulders but they're in the same building I'll make the package I know how hard it is sometimes to coordinate calendar no I don't see her anymore she doesn't want to see me anymore and just yeah I see Linda and I can and I will just send over the summarization of the changes and that's fine I I don't have any big love there and something that came up last night I got some feedback that people could no longer find the how to read your vision card right maybe we can put that right with the well there were there were two more you wanted to add recently what what were the two that you want to add right on the forms you don't recall I'll look it up you know I let's just do these three for now I know I wrote it down well we're not done yet well let's let's just let's just um so we've got the three that we want to have those links okay and all the information is there so we should be able to car should be able to do it fa so your everything that you worked on was delet it no it's just not easy access showing up how to read your vision okay and um some people were missing that last night yeah they asked me where to find everything and I said I just click search I'm hearing the same thing Brian in terms of people saying We Can't Stuff can't find that stuff and now we're back to the point I'd like to reintroduce something I've been trying to get in there a table of contents yeah I don't think we should do that because it's okay if you don't do it they're going to always be lost you can't put so many tabs in there that they they think that you know you get three in there now when are we going to have five when are we going to have 12 people like to table of contents or you simply put an index at the end and make them hot link and all you do is click on it cuz people sometimes use different words and they don't really know what they're looking for so if you put links into the the table of contents and you're going to be fine and couple of people said how come you don't have it right and B you know if you do any kind of research they say if you get a little booklet or something yeah and it's easy to scan then you don't need a table of contents you go anything beyond that you need a table of contents and you so thank you for the impassion speech okay and so I've gone ahead and I've built a table of content and I but that was a few weeks ago so anyway if you don't want the table of contents then uh I think you're doing a big disservice to the town and I think you're you're you're going against every all you might just have a pile of crap there and let him sift through it so if I may sure of course uh I'm not convinced that there are table of contents on any any town website today I think there's not so you'd be changing the format of just our page which I think is contrary to what Cara has wanted to do for consistency across the town is that or is that not true that is true okay okay um I understand you wanted to do a site index and in a table of context we wanted to get stuff out there um as I drill down in some of the other tabs that we have we certainly would need something because you you can't find some of the stuff because it's sort of hidden much like Sarah was just mentioning uh I also found that as we if you go down to the further into the forms click on the forms and open that up we have forms for 2023 motor vehicle excise tax abatements 2023 property tax abatements we don't need them should be blank right we shouldn't have them at all take them out we have the blank ones right underneath that we have the 2023 ones there's no reason for that so one of the things I would like to ask Linda to do is get those heck out of there uh I can point to where they are I I'll I'll tell you where they are uh I understand why you want to do a table of contest but we can't run contrary to the design for the rest of the website that the town has we can't so uh I think we you're burying stuff buing stuff want to make a motion or we'll stop talking about it you want to make a motion are you going to out vote no I maybe because I'm not sure I'm convinced that it needs it and if you want to keep talking I would like to I would like to make the motion that you we proceed with putting in a table of condense and a can I make one more comment I think the biggest frustration is that people can't find the stuff and they call us up and we have to take the time to get on the website and direct them yeah so and it's time when we're already short staffed because the website's been changed and and I had an appraiser call the other day and he couldn't find the property record card so and he we went through Tab and tab and tab and most people they just want to get on what they need they don't want a a book they don't want a table of contents they want to get to the the forms the forms that they want they don't want all this information and I think it's overwhelming people and as a result of that they call us and it's extra time we've put a lot of I'll call it really useful information that a few people will want but what we what we've also done is we've masked all the stuff that people really want yeah and one of the ways that that the design was intended for was uh that we would have something that was focused for citizens and then all the people who want to drill down into assessor stuff okay good luck with that and I thought that was a good idea but it still seems that it's things are very difficult to get to so in order to enable the discussion I will second your motion to put in a table of contents I I've made my I've made my you've made your case Sarah would you like to have something to say um I love a table of contents when I'm looking in a manual but I I don't love that when I'm in a website I want to be able to access things quickly so I'd rather have fewer things that are relevant to you know 95% of the community or actually maybe 99% of the community and then maybe if um there's that detailed assessing information you know maybe maybe a workaround could be a table of contents that you know you have a a printed out list you have a Word document that has all of those lists of a table of contents that that you want it could be a document that we can put with all that additional detailed assessing information Contex is the front of a book and and then you can from that table of contents you know you know what the link is going to be you can have it they could open up that document and then it could go to those hot links uh to open what you want and that that could satisfy both things if I interpret what you just said uh not really a table of contents for the stuff that we would want for as Citizens but a table of contents for all that more in depth uh assessor related stuff that's kind of a compromise to what you were looking for um it doesn't doesn't give you the table contents for the for the assessors but I mean for the uh citizens CI what we're trying to first but if you give them here's here's your list of stuff they and they click once not click three times to get down to something then then I think that gives us what we're looking for uh as far as accessibility but go ahead clicking down three times means you know where it's where it is in most cases people don't it's a big category no I know right now you have to my point was we are today have to click down three times yeah and that's if but you know it's there they don't know it there but I I don't know I don't know if there's a disagreement there I don't know what we're disagreeing about I don't yeah I want a table of contents that's what I want I agree with Sarah and I really think people when they call up they want their motor vehicle abatement application it's there the tab there they they want to they want to open the page and have it there instantly yeah they don't want to go most how many tabs you going to have what do you mean you got three you want five you want 50 what do you mean tabs oh basically we've got a little section there you oh these three things yeah oh I think there were two more that we decided on before and we just talked about the the uh how you read your vision yeah card so maybe that's a you know so we wind maybe there's a list of six or eight that that here's where they go but everything's right in front of them when they open up to the page and then we can do a table isn't that an FAQ section frequ ask questions or and we tab isn't that's not not at all if you go to other towns you'll see when you open it up it has the description of the mission and then it has all the tabs and you can go to your exemption form your motor vehicle real estate this even if you did it as motor vehicle real estate and um so we should have a k version if you had the categories and you had the forms in there that would be easier than to what they have to do now I don't I guess I'm missing the whole thing hey I got an idea I'm resigning right now no what's the day today I hope you don't do that if you sign it it will I've been thinking for that for a while and between my wife and I we've got some stuff that's that we need to be addressing I was going to wait for till after the town meeting but but you know this is getting really frustrating and that I'm I'm just building a manual in a traditional sense so that's not working and uh it's yours to accept I'm going to be away for a couple days if you still want to do that when I get back let me know I have changed this thing 14 times so you're going to resign about the website cuz that's the thing that's been the most frustration for you okay that's what it just no I'm just saying why why can't we follow at uh I don't know do we want to talk about anything about else about the website I don't really have anything else just so Sarah had suggested that we change your uh motion I'm not I'm not going to be doing anything more on this anymore don't worry about it you guys handle it okay fine I mean I'm sorry but you know this is nuts to go ahead and put something together that big and not have an index not have a table of contents this is absolutely nuts let me know when I get back would you you want to walk out of the meeting now or do you want to finish our oh let's finish that I'm I'm committed to this project I am committed but when it gets to this point we can't come to that kind of agreement and and at the same time I guess I thought being the secretary be quite honest with you you didn't get your way okay so you got to take your go home how many times have I made on the same subject you keep bumping your head up against the same subject over and over and over and you clearly you're getting some some resistance and you're going to take your ball and go home you can do that but I would just suggest you with the ball I'm suggest you don't do that but it's up to you I can't right uh we're going to go back to the website the suggestion from Sarah was that we do some kind of a table of contents on the lower part um I think that might be worthwhile investigating I was just thinking of a way that people could you it the challenge is that the website is trying to serve multiple communities of people um our most immediate need that we're hearing after the website is launched is people to access information really quickly and it's a couple of documents forms forms and they're very upset when they can't find them and it's tying up the office but then we also have you know a great set of materials that has been compiled that I don't want to see go to waste so how do you modify that original plan to accommodate both of those things um because I I do think when you have that many documents you want some kind of guide to find those documents I I'm not in disagreement there the the issue is we have this major need in the community for maybe like 2% of all the stuff that's on the site and they can't find it right now and then we have a good group of people who want to find all of this stuff and you do need a table for that but right we can't have the 90 something people per only looking for certain forms and not being able to find them instantly to a time when you're going to really need those real estate abatements up in front yep because the values will be going up slight bit and I I have a different opinion I don't think the work is wasted at all or devalued it's just trying to organize it to be user friendly user friendly for the people and I don't regularly design user interfaces um so I'm deferring to the the person who's in the office who that's their job and and then trying to merge that with what's been done which is good okay so we have a motion on table we have a I guess I would call that a motion to amend yeah I thought we were discussing the motion that's why I said that that's okay um I guess all in favor of the motion to amend right yeah I think that's where we are yeah yeah I I and you're going to vote no or or not vote I'm going to obain okay well that's perfectly will happy to do that okay so we'll record that as two yeses and an exstension and now we need to say is that what we want to go move forward with I think it is so we're going to put the there Sarah we won't do it right now first we want to get these things out there cuz so take care of those as we talked about okay um and then if we can build on the work that Jack has done um I think we can use that on the that lower half which is the in-depth if you want to go do a lot more research on accessor stuff here have fun so um if that's how we want to do it then let's let's go ahead and move from forward from there I guess we'll take another vote on that I I and extension exension okay um okay thank you so there were the three things that we talked about and the in the uh how do you read your vision card yeah need to be on that first page I believe there were two others that we talked about at the at the last meeting of the prior meeting I'll go find out what those were and I'll let you know I think I wrote them somewhere but I don't have I saw you write them down but I don't know where it went it was Mo I think it was motor vehicle abatement it's in my car was real estate no we we already have motor vehicle abatement form tax abatement form which should property tax not PR tax yeah and Maps those were the three that we had done way back when we had exemption too but should think that was what you did one of them was exemption one of them was the exemption was actually Four I think it was four that we exemptions I'm guessing the fifth might have been information on the hero act because that was new but I I have to look at my notes well and that's only for small group of people sure we could do that right now or not so that Linda can just get it all done at once yeah I think the exemptions we definitely want on there okay so right now there are five is that right if you include the how to read the you want to tap for the how to read div vision card um I just thought that was useful to put along with the GIS maps yeah it is but that isn't what I was thinking last week no I don't know what it was I'm sorry it was two weeks ago I should have I I didn't have time to read everything okay um that it want to oh we have approved invoices twice oh do we I missed it did you want to go through the rest of them again is that there twice let's not put that one on there fine uh update on the neighborhood review team proposal um so we we met as a working group the other day oh you want improve okay are we set it is on the choice so we met as a working group uh yesterday and we were looking at um the things in in our download from Vision that were zero um and we we're working through those neighborhood zero neighborhood zero site index I'm sorry site site well potato Pata um the zeros are you know and and we wanted to make sure we assigned them to the right categories if they are unassigned um so we went through and looked at what one was what we thought two was what we think three is what we think four is what we think five is and gave some general descriptives of those and then we have about 570 properties that are site zero um many of them are open space it appears or um in chapter or um the other thing that is in site zero are Condominiums oh because you don't you don't tax right right so um that's what's in that smorgus board that we can see um and we can see some um potential development um that maybe once it got developed and maybe we are taxing the house and it's not a condo um maybe that land is not yet assessed at at one 2 3 four five with the right Factor cuz site zero is I think a zero the land is not being taxed on a chap land if it has have a house on it it would go by the main the primary your primary site would be 101 and then your secondary would be 713 714 yes but the side index would come from the first from the first one main so M yeah um and and some of the other things that we discussed were you know when you look at one 1 a and 1 B you know the definition of in a neighborhood you have to have a kind of a large number of properties in it so we are not really certain what to do with the one a 1B um because you know we were thinking back to our 5-year renewal renewal what do we call that rev revil thank you let me get that terminology correct um and there just aren't that many of some of those properties to make their own neighborhood so we were talking about how that should it should be a neighborhood and then adjustments that are the site indices um but we are not touching that right now we're looking at zero right so that's where we are we're going to meet again next week um it's a working group but I've posted agendas um and we are recording um over zoom and actually I got asked because it's considered an informal meeting where I would like to have it posted um and I thought I should ask the board where we would like to post those informal meetings that are recorded do we want them to go on YouTube do we want them to go on the board of assessors a site site I think you know people can just see what we're doing in these working groups so I'm fine with it on YouTube and Facebook and all let's find out if it's okay for us to put them on YouTube cuz they're informal M okay cuz I couldn't answer that question I can't ask the question till next week sometime okay so if somebody want ask the question ahead of me that's okay or I just do it next week who do we ask I don't know who to ask so that's a good question yeah um but I've written up an agenda each time um I I don't think it's the I think we'll just talk to uh let me think think about that I don't know any ideas I maybe Annie I'm I'm not sure Mr chairman I think no matter what sharing what you're working on is a good thing oh yeah we're not against that we're just trying to figure out if it's okay to do that that way it's if we if I'm sorry I interrupted you no I my strategy would be X act forgiveness and I don't think you're going to get anybody pushing back saying what's going on and and Sarah's uh you know you creating minutes of working sessions with with other folks and they're not elected officials or anything like that so I think that there's no violation that would be going on and I think Sarah what you're doing is great you know the fact that you're making a document that people can go back and look at you know right so I think it's the good thing Sarah yeah none of us want to hide it we just want we don't know if we can use Town's YouTube or not so if that's the if that's the if that's the place where we keep all of our stuff and maybe we could do it there cuz there is stuff on the town's YouTube that isn't necessarily related to any any particular committee or board there are actually some other things that are there so I'm thinking that we probably should be able to use it um I don't know who we get permission from is that we start with Joe well she um Joe is asking me oh where where to post those and I and I just paused because I was like well I'm I'm not sure cuz I have never been in a working group before before good good so I I I I held off on replying cuz and to me I I would rather people see what we're doing so they know what the discussion was and the whole transparency thing we've been working on for year and a half and can you know and I post the meeting as a public meeting so people can come in um it's Zoom only right Zoom only yeah so uh anyway we'll try to get an answer before too much time goes by yeah how's that yeah sometime next week I'll do some inves we're hoping to have tenative assignments to those zero properties um I think does every zero property have to have an assignment I don't know why there are zero properties there how many did you say they were 500 that seems like 10% of the properties that's a lot well a lot of it is open space we don't have any open space though we don't have any open space so that's not summarized here cuz we didn't pick the zeros right so does that mean there's another 500 properties that we haven't counted I I don't know for sure cuz I didn't correlate it that's neighborhood well you know I made that I made that app where you can see what was 0 1 2 3 4 5 so I made those the pinkish properties and there's a whole bunch of them that are landed 60 um and when I look at them some of them are really large Parcels because they are in conservation land or they're but even if they're in conservation land they should have a a class code to them right you know if they're unbuildable then it would be a 132 so they have or a 900 code if they're exempt so some of them have codes but the site index yeah that index is z would the exemp have zero they wouldn't no everything should be valued yeah unless it's a condo and that's taken care of by your condo use code a one2 right yeah so I was just like I wasn't looking at all of those specific things I was looking at these are in zero let's make sure we haven't missed any that should not be read but should be in 1 2 3 4 or five that's what we're looking at right now do you have a list of those yeah she send it she has a map that she can zero in on each every one of them yeah and I'll send it to you wow and I we started Denise and I started a file when we come across things yeah of things that uncon consistent we started um if we're looking at something and it's a one so I have to say on that 1 a 1B thing it might be best for you guys to decide what you think they should be because you've been to the site or bring them to us and and and talk to us about the rationale because when I look at it I'm like it's Helter Skelter I I I don't know it seems Helter Skelter I don't know CU they're not consistent you'll have a one a 1 a a one b and I don't I don't know what to do with that either because I haven't even been to those properties right we can bring if you want I'll bring that folder next time longer term I My Hope had been that we we if it's a lake yeah if it's water it's Waterfront it says one they're all waterfronts and then we factor from there up and down because somebody has a beautiful lot or a horrible lot or no access no real access to water because on a swap or whatever the adjustment on the indic SE yep yeah yep but that was that's a longer term and that's not something you're addressing right now you're addressing the zeros zeros so so you know that's we we're going to have to take baby steps on this one I think too yeah and so if we know that it's condo land I like I I'm not necessarily moving them to 1 2 3 four or five because we're not assessing the land so what what is a condo land supposed to be well there is none there is no I know there's a 103 or 102 or whatever it is but what about 102 is a condo that's right that's just structure cuz there is no no land value right but there's got to be something in the tables for like unal I see has um waterfront property that they can tie their boats up and get access to the land um in one of the condo developments you know so there has to be a code for that so when it is that it it it could be the land index could be zero but there's going to be like a code of like 134 or 136 or whatever it is yeah should be a code on the L so I think that probably I I'm sure that exists actually um but when we are looking at because that whole thing with the zeros started because there were Parcels that had no assignment yeah well you and I found one that was that the value was so low yeah and it was a big parcel we couldn't figure out why and it was on the water too it was on the water so what we're going through and doing is well is this is this a condo is this condo land is this um is this public land um and if it's not does it belong in one does it belong in two does it belong in three four or five should be yeah yeah so cuz the site index yeah is different from the land use code MH yes yes and the L use code is determine that's how you value yeah but but the way um it it we're seeing it come on a vision is it says land sight index and um there are several that are zeros then there's one 1 a 1 b 2 3 4 and five and so we're looking at those zeros that are landsite index and then well what are these really um just so we don't miss any of them or not have them assigned to the right well location so my initial question was should we have site coat zero maybe we should I don't know that yeah and do we have any condos that are sitting on land that has a different site code than zero well we we have according to this count 453 condos 102 land use code mhm so I guess if when you're going through that if you see what the L use code is right and if it's not maybe we could start a list of those and then when if you want Denise to inspect them or I could inspect them just to see we could go out and see what they are if they're not condos right so so and then see maybe so we we still it's the site index that we're trying to figure out what what we should do and should we have zero or not and maybe we should there might be a question you want to ask Mike tomorrow yeah that's excellent point site index zero I will do that y cuz it's not summarized anywhere index zero yeah what does that you know figuring out 1 2 3 4 and and um this must be a typo here on this report it has 33 at the again it's probably supposed to be five this report he gave us oh 3 3 44 33 oh yeah probably should be five yeah um you know five when we were looking at it seemed to be a um route two that seem to be properties that are near very busy a very very busy road and Commercial areas exclusively but for the most part that seem to hold four seem to be um um a a set of communities that are um used to be kind of cottage um and I don't think that those sites have been updated in a while um because you see some cottagey areas and then places that have been recently purchased are not Cottages anymore um and so when we were looking at it it seems to be um communities that have Lake access but are not Lake adjacent three seems to be the default in the community yes that's usually your average average and two seems to be um smaller developments that were um like in the '90s old Colonials well now they're older Colonials but they were they were new Colonials at the time um CU what we're looking at the site index as it seems to be kind of a relic of the last time somebody updated it um and so there's a lot of like and don't forget when we went through the conversion from um the old old rrg system which was Tyler um to the division they just took our tables and imported everything you know they didn't do anything with them they used what we had yeah and you know there's no set of information that says what they were supposed to be so that was the majority of our meeting figuring that out um and you know we we came away going well we're going to deal with those zero properties um if you send me I'd like to look at I'm happy to send it to you yeah um you still have your email right yeah and and then you know if we have a good definition of what these things are then we can you know the assessing team can then go through and go well does this one still make sense anymore right does this one make sense or should it be this or should we consider these new neighborhoods but you know like trying to find you know New Growth or new buildings and stuff like that when there was nobody looking at that um it looks like we have years of when those weren't updated that was that was quite a problem when um you know you had rig for 26 years and they really um you know they' fell behind on a lot of stuff yeah yeah um and so you can you like when you look at the site indexes some of them just look like historic records of what things used to be this was meaningful one day but not development sort of happening on top of it um so that's where we are we're going to meet um next Tuesday also um what we did is we took our our chart our our properties divided them into three and we're going to do our best to assign indexes to them what time Tuesday um 6:30 to 7:30 maybe going a little past 7:30 but hopefully not do you want me to ask Mike tomorrow about that how he factors that in and or if he even knows what if he knows what they because it probably something came on come through on the conversion he's doing he's doing something here to to get these but he doesn't have any zeros here fiscal year oh yeah sorry thank you he has no zeros well I'm like he's got to do something for these that's what I was thinking but yes of course zero is missing he's not looking he may not even be looking at yeah at site index zero yeah which I hope is that true well it could be that most most of those site index zeros are falling under those other type of condos or something but that that's land use but yeah but that where it's already factored into the price on the commercial let's hope and and what do we put for open Spa like parks and wreck well those those are exempt Cod town own town anything that's a town own or um parks and there and there's different exempt codes for town for open space so so maybe a lot of this site index zero has a exempt code and another column um it would be on the land line yeah so I I can look for that and um then then that would sort a lot of it right um so then I guess anything that starts with a nine is exempt yes so I guess the other thing but it should have a site index on it yeah it should have a site in so it shouldn't be landsite index zero right it should have some site index and then an exempt code the exempt code should be a nine so it still shouldn't be a zero correct site index there there probably should be something trying to clarify go site index is where it sits in your community mhm okay neighborhood yeah neighborhood so it might be that zero was put in just to make it easy for somebody to exempt them I don't know but harder for figuring it out um but so when I when I you know what I'm listening is I got to go and look at the land codes and correlate those and and check that out and then um it sounds to me like what I need to be looking at is anything that is site index zero and was in chapter at some point and then look to see if there's anything that's been subdivided and taken out of chapter and has a house on it well that if that has happened then the land use code would change to a 101 presumably we hope so to a 101 yeah but that sounds like what we need for that okay even on a map though you have the neighborhood so it should all be consistent with the a huge mess and it needs to be taken apart by little piece by little piece otherwise it'll blow up I know um so I I think really zero is going to get done like that sounds funny Zero's going to get done um but this one one a one B like I I don't see being able to sort that over a computer like well and we were actually hoping to have it before we send out tax bills next time but I don't think we're going to be able to make that I know so that means we'll be working on it into the spring yes it was a rock and summer would it be helpful to have maybe see if we can run a report and vision I couldn't hear you slight index would be helpful to maybe run a report and vision well s index she's got the site indexes already pulled off on pulled out yeah and you've got the that yeah if you just click on it you can you can see it the address and then you can export the spread export the spreadsheet from there and okay um so but I mean that that spreadsheets from August wow but I don't want to rebuild that um doc that app right now yeah yeah but I can definitely I can definitely filter the spreadsheet by um the other codes now that I have the zeros pulled out I can pull those out yeah pretty easily and make some more sense of those cool yeah thank you okay I think that covers everything what a lot of job there sure um exemption warrant articles for town meeting article I guess articles yep here's your this is what Jack had wanted me to print out I print it off my own but oh okay I've done a couple revision on oh I this way kind of cut some of it off so what happened um I made another step at it stab at it this morning after uh watching the selman's meeting last night and there was a clear outcry that from the selectman and for that matter I even tested it out on Jane and uh what had happened earlier and they're saying this just wasn't complete and it's clear for us who were close to it but it's not clear to them so I made an attempt to create uh a document that you've got yep that essentially says you know okay uh what is my the Article Five cost and see if the town would be the cover page uh and I understand that there's some wording they want to hold to I said look they need to understand the the grow reason why we're doing this and our focus is creating a cost of living for a an exemptions for a cola the ask on our part is to adopt three additional expectations that will allow for col adjustments within two existing exemptions we're not changing those exemptions we're adding stuff on top and so there'll be the 17 uh EF and d uh and basically it would be all done in the conjunction with the state of Massachusetts uh there's the section to uh essentially allows a description 70f I suspect it would uh read it beforehand and then again the effect on 41d which is essentially uh allows the uh to be used and I want to point out that all changes will require vote approval by the town so if there's a if all of a sudden the you know the cost of living comes in at 2 22% we want to change the two in it to 2 1/2% we have to go to the town to say do 2 1/2% I'm sorry I didn't understand that okay if every year there's probably going to be some sort of a change in the cost of living that's set by the state so yeah right and the state's going to come back we have to notify the town and get approval from the town otherwise we don't do it no one says you have to do it so that's that's case the these these close I think what you have here is fine what what these do though is once we've accepted the state Cola whatever the state Cola is the town has by default accepted we have not done that in the past but if we accept this we we then don't have to re we don't have to review them at all okay if there's a couple articles in that says it needs Town approval yes it needs town the whole you need to approve the whole package but you have to I believe I thought I know you want to do it half at least once to get it approved otherwise we in in violation for the last like we have been in the last 100 years so you're accepting this Clause once you've accepted the Clause you accepted whatever the state gives you for a cola that's true of all three of these Clauses that's why we're doing it so that's why we're doing so we don't have to come back to town meeting after this okay I need interpretation I'm interpreting it differently in he Lind yeah Linda didn't you and I talk about that too today didn't we what's up in terms of uh if we go for an increase we have to get the town to to agree to the change even though we're sub we're taking what we've approved in terms of we're using the state guid lines and things but I thought there was a click off that the town still had to approve it well that that's initial uh we we don't need to have them approve the cola cuz it would go up automatically not the cola number itself but the approval to go ahead and execute on that Cola that's that's what these articles are for CU otherwise we'd be we would still have to we would still just doing 41 a d c d c whatever we're doing a is different yeah a is the a 41 C is what we thought we had C would have required us to come back on a week on an annual basis to make any changes which we've not done in many years I by adopting 41 D we adopt Cola every year that Massachusetts changes the cola they give a number to you but I thought we had to accept that no no we're saying we are going to by adopting this Clause we are accepting whatever they tell us okay which makes it easier for a town meeting cuz we don't have to in the in the original set of exemptions they defined what you could give right they had def that in this case what we're doing is we're signing up to say we're going to come up and modify that document I was under the impression that we then had to go to the town to say we're going to be we're going to be following this do you approve once they've approved 41d once they say once town meeting says we approve 41d then we don't have to go back to town to ask for their permission anymore because they've already given their permission by accepting this okay I Clause I it's a subtlety I understand that excuse me but uh they acceptance by this Clause by the city of town chot increases reimbursements by the Commonwealth okay so we're not going to get any help and the shall take effect in the city or town upon its acceptance by such city or town yep yep accept this and accepting this document okay you're accepting it's Claus by CLA by okay let me just check that out but that's that's that would make sense too that would make sense too uh the the other part was that uh yeah this is your sheet Brian this was just a I just grabbed that said okay there's another example and the fact that we hadn't done anything not another example this is where we are today yeah yeah and but and this where we are an example of where we are today and what had happened back in 1998 2006 and 2004 we had done that so I kept that I thought that was a good explanation and then I go back to the I think some of the select board didn't get it but yeah and to see if the town will vote to accept and that's we just move that question and if they vote for it and you're ready yeah you don't yeah you probably don't need to re revisit the well I just I'm wondering I'm wondering if when this gets presented we can say we want to adopt these set of Clauses because we needed to set what the assets and the income are for eligibility and then we wanted to just adjust it each and every year for the cost of living automatically yeah it's like Common Sense language we have to put this kind of stuff in the warrant but we could just explain it that way and people go oh yeah what is that number because then we have to take whatever that's what the chart is whatever that number is in terms of the 2 and a half% or the increases because the increases have to be recorded because then they go back and they end up in that document that was asking was that was that updated because we have to report everything back right and our exemptions and our changes and what we're uh providing so you're worried that we need to update this every year we don't we don't because the St automatically doing it no I don't they according to these according to that we have to send that was the question I was asking you he's talking about the data Bank we have to get that in and that has to be shown as approved by the town I thought and then that's why the treasurer or I don't think I don't think you heard Linda um she said that gets entered in by the town clerk right to the site and that's the reporting that's done we don't do that the town cler do that usually coming out of the warant that reflects some sort of number yes yep right and so why would when it's voted at town meeting Kathy has to send that vote to the Attorney General's office and the attorney general has to approve what the vote was whether it was accepted and not and then it goes into the data Bank bank and it goes into the do database it's that's where it's supposed to go after approval by the Attorney General okay any town meeting articles have to be approved by the by the um the Attorney General's office and the town clerk as an officer of the Town submits that she submits those to the attorney general and then you know they get updated in the database I don't know who's in control I don't know I've not seen the stream of how it works all I know is that a lot of stuff didn't get updated and uh I don't I don't know where it broke down it's between uh our organization the town or the do or some other place I don't know I just don't know your your question then isn't about um how the cola works it's it's how the reporting and Loops back around to do and I still have that's cor is that right yeah how does it how does it get there and the other side of it is I want to just clarify that we don't cuz there's something in there that does did say that uh we the town had to approve yeah but it was a could have been just that article the approval I don't know let me go back and find that the the way the article is written no not an article the way the Clause is written we have to accept the Clause once it've accepted the Clause we don't have to do anything again because we now are applying Cola every year and state will tell us what the cola percentages right and so that we don't have to bring that up in front of the town at all nope okay much like we've done over the last 15 to 20 years we didn't bring it to the town but we hadn't accepted these Clauses but we did when we made a change to the we changed the am Bas amount we changed that amount and we changed the age and things like and that we did this last this board yeah yeah we we did um 41 c c c MH because we hadn't accepted 41d yet so we had to do 41 C and we were changing those parameters because they were not Cola related I appreciate they were not Cola related so we couldn't do anything about 40 it didn't matter whether it was 41 C or D we were changing the parameters yeah uh for age um right so uh that's why we were able to do that one independently these are sort of related they lay on top of the 17s and the 41 C's yeah and right okay so I'll make the tweaks to that I have I don't know if there's much for you to change I think the wording here is fine the the copy that you have oh I might have fixed it by that time the 7 versus a 17 no I've got 17 I we we wrote 17 uh the town manager wrote 17th in in words yeah we changed some of them back to the numbers and some of them are still words and frankly I don't care I don't care either it's fine as long as we get to the care if you go to the if you go to the bylaws Mass general laws they spell out the 17th yeah why they do that think if we but just you know here's why we're doing this here's the verbiage sorry it's annoying a lot of read you don't read this stuff here here you are these are the things we're taking you know we're trying to adjust for the cost of living on a regular basis for Community for some of the poor members of our community older and poor members of our community by the way the in the data also indicated I in there I pointed out that there are no participants in the 17d cuz no one could ever own a house and have an asset less than $40,000 that's we had uh we had we had 317 DS just two years ago this year we have none oh I know but but it comes and goes yeah I'm just saying I think that I can put you can put the history in there but right now and we have 27 right Linda Linda 27 I think that's the number I think it's not I'm really glad we're at this point where it's going to get on the warrant and right hopefully vote it up but it's a shame that oh it hadn't been done I mean it's it's criminal to have that minimum asset requirement they can't no one can it's just so I think those you know the the 17s in particular seem to be for surviving spouses or or children that suddenly don't have the the income the income it's the assets that that if you're sitting in a house you can't even open a piece of land that isn't worth $40,000 that's why we have no participation we should be raising that considerably but let's just take not yeah let's take one step at a time um cuz I have some other things I'd like to do but I'm not going to try to do it this time because we'll do them in the spring Brian do do you think Carter had said we could change the summary we can change the sum this is the motion we're not changing that this this is the motion here I should we maybe make this a little less wordy the summary yeah it's just so hard to understand well this is this explains each one of those independently rather than trying to do them all at once so I like this a lot yeah I mean we also got shoehorned into putting them all in one yeah so we didn't really want one article we wanted four yeah three become three but maybe if we take this now we've got the three all put together so so this has got spacing in it now in between here but maybe we take this just a summary and condense it a little bit uh what do you think I don't know if we're going to condense it I think we may actually make it bigger the reason we might make it bigger is because we should explain 177e 17 F and 41d more extensively I think why don't you just use the explanation that's in the igr that's what originally started at that's what we originally put in there in the first set I think you're right but if we want to adopt that is anybody uncomfortable with that I I just wanted an article that um makes sense to people so however we do that I really let's we have to we have to give them something tomorrow cuz it has to go to the printer so if we pull the can we see the igr in the summary can we just say the point of doing this is like like an opening line so like a fifth grader reading it well that's that's what Tom was saying and Michael were saying as well this is this is too complex and this doesn't make sense well that's not at all what I heard Tom say he said I understand it oh he understands it but they were saying that it's too come the seven well he Tom hit the 177 and then which don't care about yeah and and I think that uh he said something about that and Michael hammered it twice in terms of uh this is too complex I kind of understand what they're saying what's where's we did you make this document that was the first one we the meeting when we had it and then Sarah saw it and he goes oh this this needs to get Consolidated now was all for it well I didn't say it needed to be Consolidated um the 41d was confusing so we rewrote it at that meeting we had a huge discussion about are we allowed to set the limits of of of what the asset and income were so we could get started on adding Cola and so we asked if the um Town Council could draft 17d andf so we got it right and you wrote it up and sent it into the black hole I did not do 17 I think you wrote up 17 or I don't know who wrote up 17 oh actually I know what happened we were at that meeting I said okay well we voted on 41d as as we amended it we had that paragraph it got sent got sent to the whole board um after it was September 4th and then we had the instruction of like well what can we do with 17d andf because if we are not allow to set those original asset and income limits where are we supposed to start the cola from and what we got back was one line that said we're adopting 17 d e and f and 41d that's it and that was it yeah um and so it didn't resolve any of the questions that we posed as a board um it hadn't been reviewed At All by Town Council and so then we had to try to draft a document that included 7de e f and 41d um and make it comprehensive and make sense which made it unnecessarily complicated MH and now we're getting grilled because it's unnecessarily complicated you can put I'm thrilled you didn't notice goes into a further explanation we probably yeah re that's that's what happened to it and then it kind of dis disappeared for quite a while well then and then we got an email back are you sure you want to have all this stuff in there this is one about so and the the deadline the drop dead deadline that we heard was what 3 weeks ago no we had just had to have something in didn't have to be really perfect but now we have a now we have deadline do a what happen moving I think from my perspective what's thator should we do a handout maybe maybe condense us and do handouts you know we did the other so do the do the summary keep that brief and then do a handout separate hand out see how there like bullets here under good idea under with the bullets yeah if we did like a bullet for you would just to kind of condense it for the summary for the summary and then maybe add the more information cuz we do have that we can do a handout at the town meeting yeah yeah cuz I you're hoping a good idea I just don't know that we're going to have that drafted warrant but I think it would be good to just hand out here's why we're doing this yeah get all this information here we just handing this whole packet yeah that's thorough you have the igr is that the igr I do have igrs yeah I think it's actually the same thing let me pass this over so for the summary she's pointing at this this is this is what she's suggested for the yeah that's that's the igr for the is confusing look at how we that night we spent even we spent like 2 hours even though the amount of research that we've done it's it was a lot so so we're talking about yeah doing a brief really brief summary maybe directly from the igr maybe and then doing a handout anybody that shows up at town meeting we can give them the handout and talk about it could even print these out if it need be too it's said all the information yeah they won't read that yeah just a one page one page hand out and it winds up being two two sides of one page I don't care but you don't want to hand them more than one piece of paper I think yeah all right I think so your is this the presentation yeah gave this this was when Jack pulled it apart he said well maybe we should separate these into the three pieces and explain because this explains them all y um I think that's not bad at all I think that's a good idea cuz um you know we originally wanted them each separate and this is the ask which you just mentioned so start with the ask I I kind of like what you put together well I am I'm seeing this stuff and I like this stuff even better don't see um is it 240 I don't I don't think so um I mean all of these Clauses on their own are too wory in my opinion well yes and unnecessarily complicated because they're lawyers right I do like that as a handout I mean I would love it if we could what I would love is oh sorry the whole thing I haven't read the whole thing I just like the idea at least this yeah and say what this is what they're doing and make it simple draw a simple diagram uh that says I do oh three on the two that says we're doing this this and this for this this and this reason you know yeah pretty good do you want it I know it's actually not bad yeah you want to draft something or do you want oh um we drafting right now is not going to happen I I have all that sight zero stuff to theet it's for tomorrow no I can't do it for tomorrow I can't do that for tomorrow there's no way I I I'm going to leave here go to sleep get up at 5:00 and go to work and be done at like 4:30 everybody's close by then right so how do we get something in tomorrow I can't do it tomorrow I'm on I'm going to plane you can't do it tomorrow you've got mik coming I have mik um it's a hot potato it's a hot potato you want to take a shot at doing a one page this it wasn't accepted um you know you want to present this what's that you know you want this to be right for the warrant I do want it to be right I of course I do I present it my I'm gone I I wrote you a note I said I'm surpr I sent you a note there was a surprise after this I'm gone when does it have to be in he said by tomorrow right what time tomorrow what time tomorrow does it have to be you say just tomorrow although I I listened to that meeting and they were talking about getting it to the printers by October 22nd yeah know I think this is it's today yeah yeah you or we leave it because nobody has time to redo it it I I really don't no I yeah you don't want to turn a piece of into them it's it's not it's just well if you want tomorrow I can try to come in in the afternoon and I've got an appointment in the morning but I can try to come in in the afternoon and just do the summary for the article is it going to be because we don't have to worry about the handout we can make that later right yeah right I think we thought we had to put all those limits in writing for some reason I thought we had to yeah we did about and that's why it was there that's why we why all that was there yeah it turns out we don't have to put that at all I like the table though that's in there you can put your table in hand up see you know that's actually a good point it doesn't have to be in the summary right the table could be in the handout yeah so if it's if it's okay with the with the board Arena's offered to do a onepage summary y to go with the rest of the article uh you know they take as much out of any of the stuff as you find necessary do you have the electronic version Linda so you can pass it off to her I I do have um I have what you cuz you you got what he sent over today too I do have that in the PowerPoint yeah and I think uh did you just sent it to me I can forward it to he had sent it to you and then he sent it to all of us I also came up with another approved I get R 17 so I will send you the latest I'll you another revie D thank you thank you Reena thank you Jack don't like me yeah we the and is it still going to be all one article it's now Article Five I guess don't have it was 12 it was 11 now it's five I don't know how that goes about well he had he had this exemptions all that stuff and one gr so it was reordered he's trying to group all that stuff together okay that's why it got re rumed okay is he trying to make that like the consent agenda yeah the way okay good luck with that yeah okay uh do we need to have another meeting before November 2nd if you're talking to Mike and we're trying to get a bunch of stuff approved do we need to have us review stuff before we submit it or not um you're going to have to go into Gateway and sign that going to have to do that you're going to have to go so we don't need to meet to sign that I I guess because we don't have individually go into so by default our signature is our vote so that's that's I'm okay with that uh so there's no need as far as we know right now to meet again before November 2nd I'm going to be gone from the 24th to the 29th so I won't be around if you wanted to have a meeting well we could do a meeting on the thir about if if we absolutely have to have a meeting or not and I don't know that right now I'm yeah leading toward no but I just want to hear what we have to say here meeting another meeting not now another meeting nope November 2nd going once going twice I'm sorry it's November 6th I lied it's a Wednesday day after election day make sure you vote day after oh yeah we getting Town Hall town meeting is on the 12 so yeah right they giv us six days um postpone topics we I probably jumped ahead a little far it's probably enough okay yeah well I have a suggested policy any action initiated by any other Town department where the assessors need to take action or a vote must be accompanied by a written request an explanation because we've had confusion we just fixed something that was not written and I believe that we need to make sure that it is documented uh helps avoid confusion and document the steps that are needed so if anybody I'd like to move that that is a an a um proceed policy we should be we we should be adding um I'll second that I think it's important for clarity we can modify that as much as needed but that's at least the Baseline yeah I would second that all right all in favor by hi hi we have a new policy another new policy need a policy format though it's okay we don't need a policy format no we do it's just right up there with TPS reports yeah yes I know said something bad um okay is any anybody okay we have uh closing anything else on an agenda item H any closing comments from the public any public out there nope no public board I just want to say thank you very much it's been a good time I mean seriously I I love and care for everyone of you and I just thank the wonderful people and thank you very much I hope you reconsider You by Next I hope you do too so just hold on to that till next no I'm going to let you hold on what it actually not sign you you didn't sign it I signed it that means you might dock my pay or something if I don't you're getting a cut the cut and pay thank you thank you very much um yeah yeah I will motion to adjourn accept the motion to adjourn I'll second it all in favor I at 8:35 thank you that there needs to be a discussion in terms of whether