so apologies apologies for that technical uh challenge uh and I would like to ask one of the conservation Commissioners to make a backup recording for us Sophie is still working with Dan on uh on her ability I can do that thank you Chris so take two oh with all the recordings going uh let's see Chris I got to give you permission okay right we are reporting thank you Chris so take two April 3D 2024 public meeting of the lunberg Conservation Commission um in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being audio video recorded the agenda list all of the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those that are reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law please address all comments to the chair this meeting of the Conservation Commission will be held by Zoom at the link provided Below in this notice and for anybody that uh may be uh joining us uh on uh broadcast the zoom meeting is 83583 5 8226 and I would encourage anybody who uh wants to uh wants to do join Zoom to go to the town website go to the calendar download the agenda because there is a clickable link in that agenda and it does make it much easier to join us by zoom and I'm going to start uh with a roll call uh Bob peas present Jenny puer very good Rich bur present and Jeff uh Viviano he did tell me he was going to be out today Mike larouche present Chris St Germain present very good thank you let's see do I have I do not have all of my Commissioners pinned I'm going to go do that makes it easier for me to ensure I've got everybody called on to vote very good there's everybody uh except Jenny there's Jenny very good okay uh we will start out with public comment do we have any public comment by members of the commission okay I'm not seeing any raised hands uh are there any requests for public comment from members of the public and uh from members of the public the ground rules are you're limited three minutes and uh it needs to be a subject matter that's under the direct jurisdiction of the Conservation Commission um yeah and then uh as is true for all the hearing please address all comments to the chair that is me and uh I prefer that people raise their hands uh in the uh you know there's a uh reaction at the either at the bottom or the top there's a little smiley face plus that uh gives you reactions and you can raise your hand there or if you use any of the icons say you can't find the raise your hand you can use any of them uh and if all else fails uh you know you can say something and uh I will I will call on you in turn if you just let me know you want to say something right because I we don't expect everybody to be an expert in Zoom so are there any public comments uh from members of the public and I am not seeing any we do have uh meeting minutes actually we have three sets of meeting minutes to vote on uh today uh we will start with the uh March 6 meeting minutes I I am looking for a uh motion to approve those as distributed so moved motion by Bob do I have a second second okay I saw Chris before I heard him so I'm going to count him as the second uh roll call vote uh Bob Pete hi Jenny puer can I go if I wasn't there yes okay um I rich Burch I Micha louche hi Chris St Germaine I and I for myself okay it's unanimous approval okay we'll go to the uh next list this is going back a little bit we're catching up on our backlog slowly but surely September 6 I am looking for a motion to approve so so moved thank you Chris I'm looking for a second second Mike second by Mike thank you roll call vote Bob peas hi Jenny puer hi Rich bur Rich you're on mute we'll come back to Rich mikae larouche I Chris St Germain I I for myself and Rich are you gonna vote um you're on mute you may have had to step away for a moment okay I'll count rich as an absten uh but that still carries the vote for approval and then August 16th uh just came in uh and I don't know it came in yesterday uh and was sent for distribution um so has anybody not had a chance to review those I'm Mo we approve second okay a motion by Bob and a second by Chris St Germain uh roll call vote Bob peas hi Jenny puer hi Rich bur and I'll count uh rich is mute as an abstention This Time Again Mika larouche I Chris St Germain hi and I for myself so those are also approved very good moving along we have no appointment hearings tonight um and before we get into our uh discussed public hearing Sophie did we have any requests for uh continuation uh yes so looking at the agenda my notes we have um 171 Arbor Street for the um April 17th meeting okay um who else I don't I don't have any other um I didn't get any other requests for continuation okay very good thank you for that so uh do we have a representative for 171 Arbor Street on the call oh yeah Brian marett is here and and Brian you um agree with the uh request for continuation to April 17th yep I do and and I know I know this has been being continued for a while so I just wanted to I can give you a quick little update on what's going on if if you want to hear it um so with national endanger species um act um so Fisher and Wildlife we had we had a habitat assessment done the blandings turtle was located or evidence of the blandings turtle was identified on part of the property so we redesigned the site to uh accommodate all of National Heritage concerns so they reviewed the plan they accepted the plan uh but the revised plan changing the project from a four lot subdivision to a um three lot common driveway uh plan uh was only able to be done to get three lots if we could modify some Frontage so we're doing that by working with one of the next door neighbors to acquire 12 feet of his Frontage um so we're still working through that it led to some zoning issues so we're working with the zba or we're about to work with the zba to file a plan get that approved so right now we're requesting the continuance till the next meeting um we're still working with the neighbor because in order to subdivide the lot we had to appeal appease the uh subdivision requirements of a lot for Board of Health and things like that so there's just a lot of kind of teas across and I and Dot before I can come back to you knowing yes we can build out this plan so um that's why it's taking this long so I just wanted to let you know okay thank you for that update uh makes makes a lot of sense to me U yeah and there is a chance that we're going to have to continue it past the April meeting as well but I'm I'm hopeful that we're trying to get to a point where I can stop continuing this and just come back to you guys okay um yeah and as in the past just send Sophie a note you know uh uh within 48 Hours of holding the meeting and and then we can uh quickly get it disposition and uh continue that'll be fine thank you okay I'm looking for a motion from the conservation Commissioners uh to continue uh this to uh 417 so moved thank you Chris do I have a second second thank you Bob go for a roll call vote Bob peas hi Jenny puer can I vote on this one if I haven't been here for the other ones uh actually no you can't good call Jenny um so uh we'll move on Rich Burch he nothing from Rich um Mike larouche hi Chris St Germain hi and I for myself so we will uh approve continuing that to 417 can somebody text Rich it right now thank you Bob I appreciate that okay moving along to new public hearings pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunenberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing on a request for determination of applicability by Dave katris for the removal of dead trees and addition of an open deck within the buffer zone of a wetland at 189 Hemlock Street do we have the applicant um or their representative on the call tonight here president uh and would you state your name and address for the purposes of the record David Kellis at 189 hem Hemlock Drive Hemlock Drive lunenberg Mass 01462 very good thank you okay do you w to uh and I I don't know do you have stuff that you want to share uh to give us an overview of what you want are proposing to do on the property or did you want Sophie to uh share that for us I'll give you a quick rundown um we have a bunch of um killer trees and dead trees or dying trees uh some by nature some by um our local beavers and we would like to um stop them from damaging our roof any more than already has on both uh our shed and the dwelling itself um we're more than happy to replant uh trees um in the buffer zone and along the edges of of the property and stuff to um satisfy anybody's I'm not sure the wording but um yeah and then have an open deck uh off the E shed uh it would be wide open stumps would remain in the ground um Sophie if you uh have anything else I might have forgotten um I don't I don't have anything additional to to say other than I I took some some notes on uh a rough estimate of number of trees uh within each buffer zone yeah that would be good for us to understand um so taking the measurements there's about eight trees within 50 ft um around eight trees within 100 fet um there are a couple outside of the 100 foot uh buffer zone and approximately 8 to 10 within 30 foot and uh David you can correct me if any of those numbers seem off um at all I think that sounds about right okay that seems like about uh 26 trees in total yes it was between 26 to 29 uh was my count I might have count counted a few smaller ones that um were not within the uh over the inch the 4 and a half inch uh rating if we will and uh and you're only proposing to take down trees no other vegetation that's correct just this the trees um the land would stay the same um prob if nothing else we might do some planting of uh some smaller trees decorative ones um along with whatever Lake View tells us um would be some other good trees to uh replant uh I tried to go down there that day when I when I saw you they were closed I went to three other ones they're all closed for the season so as soon as they open I will be contacting them to uh find out some good trees that will uh Thrive yet not um become Health Killers if you will okay thank you um I will open the floor to uh members of the commission ask questions I'd love to see Sophie's pictures me too I mean I found the diagram in the Google Drive you know that shows the approximate location um but you know that's a lot of trees to take down you know and I'd love to know you know like how many of them were in the 30 and how many in the 50 and stuff like that Madam chair uh yes Mike I'd also like to know what kind of trees are are proposed to being removed just not the number okay great question um could we uh Dave or Sophie um can you give us uh some information some details about those trees I think Sophie uh has the what's within each range of 30 50 100 or more um as for the type of trees um I believe there are a bunch of pine um I think there's only a couple Hemlock to my knowledge and I'm not sure I don't Sophie might have some other ones yeah um uh I will Echo probably I want to say maybe five or four large white pines which are the primary ones and I can I can show you the pict pictures that I took um as well uh some of them are red maple and red oak and a couple of hemlocks let me just share my screen real quick this is the same property where we did an RDA not that long ago and um um for some masonry work in uh Al along the shore is it not that is cor correct thank you Sophie you want to tell us kind of what we're looking at as we're looking uh yeah so um I believe the one to the left here um is one of the White Pines that is probably I would say the closest to the house um the one on the right I believe is a red oak the one in behind that one is also a white pine um this one here White Pine this is a closer up of um there's another white pine and that's the original one I pointed to um I believe this is the uh a shed and this is a pine as well next to the shed um this is between the edge of the shed and the the water body here um there are I believe Gray Birch um and a couple of either Red Oak or or red maple um a couple of are clearly parts of them are kind of on their way out um otherwise the smaller ones are pretty healthy and I believe this is some sort of like shelter uh um a tarp over it and here are the trees near the shore that have been attacked by beavers and Sophie out of the population of 26 to uh 29 trees um how many do you think are uh dead or dying uh versus uh relatively healthy um I'm not an arborist but uh just visually trees are pretty resilient um unfortunately Pines are hard to to tell the health of them um especially with their root system is very shallow um so I wouldn't question taking the Pines out um but the ones that are being constantly attacked by beavers I mean those could be taken um but the percentage overall for thinking 26 to 29 I didn't see a large number of trees that appeared to be diseased um there may possibly be parts of the trees um where they split off okay thank you I say 15 maybe that are not healthy I believe this might have been a very large Spruce uh this was taken from the the dirt road um and that's another side of the uh shed over there this is one tree that he was thinking about taking out but all right let me get back to stop sharing okay Rich did that answer all your questions I saw you had your hand raised ah actually the question I had my hand raised for unfortunately I had to step away for a minute the this 12 by 12 box rectangle square off of the shed is that supposed to be the uh open deck that he's looking proposing to put in the no disturb Zone that's right to the left of the shed okay so the 12 by 12 that is the open deck correct can you share what you're looking at Rich um yeah I was just looking at the diagram that was with his application okay and the the open box uh is the okay I understand and do we have a plan on the replacement of the trees in the 30 foot according to the bylaw nope okay thank you madam chair thank you rich uh Bob I'll call on you yeah um I I think we have to continue this in my opinion we have to continue this irda um I think we need a uh uh a replacement uh uh plan um I'd love a little more definitive information about you know uh how big these trees are that they want to take down I certainly understand and would support you know the request to take down uh huge white pines that are T towering over the house you and um but uh that is one heck of a lot of trees to take down and um um so uh I I'd like to see a little more information before before I vote in this application just speaking for myself thank you Mary thank you um do we have any other I think those are great comments too Bob uh and Echo kind of my own sentiments uh I would like to see a schedule of trees the number and the species um that are recommended uh I did uh I did have the ability to uh walk uh on the property uh with the resident um and most of those are uh fairly sizable trees um in terms of maturity yes Bob in in your humble opinion having eyeballed then you know what's your opinion you know like on the General Health of the trees that they want to take down you know that aren't white towering over the house uh yeah there were a number that were growing close to the house um and I didn't uh I didn't do an exact count I kind of rely on Sophie in that regard but her her estimate of of 15 uh that are maybe not healthy seems pretty reasonable from what I saw on the on the on the walk thank you any other questions or comments by uh members of the commission okay seeing none um do we have any questions or comments by members of the public and I am seeing n uh so so back to uh David uh Dave how would you feel about uh continuing to uh maybe the 17th to give you time to put together a uh a replacement um schedule and bring that back to us uh could we do the one after that I'll be on vacation and I will not be around unfortunately oh yeah sure um let me just go look at my calendar let see if I can get to a calendar that's the first May 1 it's May 1 yeah okay so continue to May 1 okay and if I'm correct you want to know the what kind of trees I want to replant is that what you want to know yeah uh uh the number that you want to replant well the species that you're proposing to replant and then the the number and um the bylaw uh guidance that rich bur uh put in there is that at at the very minimum um it's two for one uh for mature trees there's actually in our bylaw there has a uh actually I think it may be in the regulation itself uh a schedule of uh tree Replacements uh minimum tree Replacements by size okay uh we would all that to the tea um no problem there um obviously Bob had something to add Bob can probably chapter andse it would be helpful if you could take uh and show you know where you would put these trees you know and how how big they would be okay um didn't think that far ahead of uh okay yeah I could work on that I could work on that this I'll I'll assume that everything goes through and you guys are okay with everything and I'll give you a plan of where the trees would go based off of that assumption is that is that fair uh yeah so the you would bring us back the uh the proposal for The Replacements that gets us a lot uh makes a lot easier for us to uh actually uh finish the deliberation and maybe Redline whatever you have brought because we'll of course reserve the right to continue to provide guidance on this sounds good okay so uh we have the applicant has uh requested continuation to 51 uh so I'm looking for a motion from the conser conservation Commissioners so moved okay I rich and Mike larouche and we'll do a roll call vote Bob peas hi Jenny puer hi Rich bur hi Mike larouche hi Chris St main I and I for myself okay we will see you again on uh the 1st of May sounds good thank you everyone very much and I will see you guys in May thank you bye bye moving moving along uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended and the town of lunenberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing on a request for determination of applicability by uh Yan Wilhelm for the laying of naturalized Stone steps and Crush Stone path within the buffer zone of the Wetland at 141 Hemlock Drive do we have the applicant Andor their representative here uh on the call with us tonight yes good evening I'm here it's actually Jim vanas I go by the name Jim Y vill is okay I'll make a note of that um I hope everybody can hear me okay and understand me it's first time I do the zoom meeting and maybe maybe a bit nervous doing it but hopefully I come over loud and clear oh yeah we can hear you just fine okay um so uh do you want to tell us a little bit about uh what you're hoping to do um on your property and and while you're going through it verbally I'll ask uh Sophie to uh call up the materials to share with us um too um since you're new on Zoom I I won't even assume that you're going to uh share your your application with us does that work yeah that will work um um if we are new to just a little bit of background maybe we are new to the town of lunenberg uh we um we lived in malor massachus since uh 1994 and then about five years ago we decided to move to Plymouth after I retired uh and then a year ago we wanted to live closer to the children and grandchildren who live in STO massachus it and we ended up buying a house in h in lunenberg and we're happy to be there um the address is 141 hamlock Drive In in lunenberg that is uh the house we bought uh was actually built in N or 2022 so it was only a year and a half old when we bought it we bought it for from the first owners um it is built on on a bit of a uh slopey piece of land we the house is is high up closer to the street level and then it slopes pretty steep down towards the backyard and towards the lake uh we only have a uh Waterfront of maybe 20 to 205 ft or so it's a small sliver of land uh you can see it's almost like a a bag or a pizza slice piece of land um on the right hand side of the house starting at the uh driveway um there's grass it goes steep down so we've had trouble uh actually mowing it because it is so Steep and it goes down and it pretty much goes down as grass all the way till where the deck is built and then from there closer to the water it is all mud there's nothing there there's no bushes no brush it's all muddy and maybe some stones and that's what leads down to the water and to the dock that's there and what we are hoping to do is first of all get some steps next to the house so that's the furthest away from the water level uh where now the grass is um and then when we get into the 30 ft buffer zone uh we plan to put um uh blue stone natural blue stone sitting on a bat of crust rocks um because we understand that you're not allowed to dig into any of the uh uh terrain or or ground closer to the water level and there's actually a side plan that was made even before the house was built that I also included in the application and it it clearly states uh what can be done in order to get some sort of a path going down to the water level and I think sopia can show you that now it's not that one and no that's the property itself as it is now and no it's the other one it's the side map um that was written up yeah here it is and if you look at the right side of that side map it has all kinds of uh referrals it says the location of the step and the rise of the steps are to be fitted to the existing slope with no Cuts or fills in the 30 ft no disturb Zone in excess of 9 in deep now we are not planning to go go into the the the ground at all we are all uh putting these natural stones on top of a bed of crust rocks and it will look like what what sopia showed you on these pictures it will be all natural rock it's not pre-cut blue stone it is it is just uh big pieces of or big pieces pieces of of blue stone Okay Sophia I don't know if you can still show them the uh the picture yeah so that's how we hope it will will look like and again at the moment there's absolutely nothing it's all bare and it's very slippery and muddy to uh to to use it at this point okay uh anything else that you want to tell us about the project yeah um so when I uh first started looking at this um I walked into the conservation office met with sopia and asked her to come out and look at the property which is what she did in late December um it was a cold bitterly cold day so she didn't spend too much time with me but I think and I hope I explained to her what the plans were at the time um and and I think she understood it and it's it's fairly straightforward I believe we got this side plan that we have used as our uh guidelines on in terms of what we uh we believe we can and cannot do we got a lcer involved and and he came up with the design to do it the way that I just explained with the large natural blue stones uh and creating a step on the right side of the house followed by laying Stones net on a batt of crust box in the 30 fet no disturb on towards the water 5 ft from the high water mark there will be nothing because that was the other thing in the side plan from an engineering firm that made it in uh what is it 2018 that's referring to the fact that you have to stay away 5 feet from the high water mark which is Will what we will do then as well and how wide were you proposing this um walkway to be that's a good question I would say in the beginning next to the house it will be a little bit wider because that's where currently only grass is so I would say there it's maybe uh 8 ft wide maybe and then once you get closer to the water level it will narrow a little bit and uh how narrow will it go no just a regular pathway how wide is that it's maybe maybe 2 M 6 feet 6 8T so so it will be a little bit wider next to the house so maybe up to no I would say 8 to 10 feet wide so 8 feet at the house and uh six at the water line I would think so yeah okay um okay uh Sophie uh why don't you uh go over what you found uh when you did the site walk um just in relation to this project uh well yeah the project and the site um well I I would agree it's it's the project itself uh the proposed project is it's not too complicated um the the grass and the slope I can see how it could be a a hazard um when it's wet and when you're trying to maintain it I wouldn't want to cut that lawn um on the grade that it is on um and um so the other observations are that there was some um some tree clearing um on the site yeah so I I didn't know if you wanted to get into that now or later on in the meeting but I'm more than happy to discuss that as well uh because when Sophia and I did the walkth through she noticed that uh some trees had been taken down and I I listened to the recordings from the March meeting by the way I apologize for not having been at the March meeting uh but we were on vacation in the Far East and it was impossible for us to make a call from a cruise ship in the Far East so I told Sophia that there was no way I could make the March meeting so it's not that we've been hiding uh by no means um we uh have been very much trying to uh communicate uh I have been communicating with Sophia constantly since we met in December must have been 253 emails going back and forth trying to find out what I needed to do because I'm all new to this um and then I was a little surprised to hear the recording from the last meeting in the March meeting that I have not been willing to show up and and all that all of this was commun unated to sopia that I could not be there um so the other thing that came out of the March meeting the way that I understood it at least when I listened to it is that it it was made uh that sound at least that I had taken down brush brushes and mature trees and it's very bare and I had did did done some Landscaping we have not changed anything at all since we bought the house in August last year the Landscaping is still exactly the same the previous owners had put wood chips around the property and somewhat in the back of the property we only added a little bit of a layer of the new wood chips that came from the trees the dead trees uh and the skinny trees that we took down in December on top of it we have not expanded it and all the Landscaping no brushes have been taken down as it is today is as it was when we bought the house and I actually sent Sophia some pictures of the listing of the house before we bought it and it clearly shows that the Landscaping was exactly the way it is now there it was Bare then it is bare now uh there's a little piece of of grass and around the piece of grass is there's no MCH it's all wood chips and we haven't really expanded any of them so it's not that we have bulldozer the back down we if only take in a few trees down uh we and that's so since I was new I was told you have to get permission from Hickory Hills Lake uh we did that uh they immediately came out we marked the trees that they said it makes all the sense that you take these down because these are uh that pine trees had no branches to them uh so we marked these and they immediately approved the the drawings and and the plan that I had submitted to them uh they did say you have to get a permission from the conservation committee uh which is what I tried to do since I got their plan approved which was at the end of October I have been making call after call to the conservation committee left numerous messages never he a beep back um we got back to our house in lunenberg in December because we go to Florida from time to time um and nobody ever replied to us and since there was danger that some of the trees uh would come down on the house we decided to go ahead and do it uh in December but again they were all trees that were either dead or less than three inches thick uh with the exception of the two trees that Sophia took pictures of these are oak trees that were on the side of the house uh on the borderline with the property of my neighbor one was completely Hollow on the inside so I'm very happy that I took that one down otherwise it could have landed anywhere uh and the one next to it was hanging over our house and that is the one that we took down as well the other were pruned uh but were definitely that one where you have this one that that one was completely hanging over the dock and everything so but it's all one tree so we took one stem of that one down yes we did but the rest was all and you can still come and take a look and see what we have taken down because everything else that maybe people thought we had taken down was already taken down by the previous owners I'm I'm more than happy to work the property I know exactly where the stems are I can show you the new stamps the the steps and and and the old ones and all of this was already there thank you and thank you for uh sending having the presence of Mind of sending Sophie the uh photos from the listing um that can also be really helpful okay um so Sophie trees that had been recently cut um and recently since uh December since yeah since since uh yeah December where were those located relative to the lake or the Wetland um well I'm not sure which ones are different um timeline wise for the ones that the previous owners did compared to the ones that I discovered that was really distinguished do you have like a uh diagram or something uh because if you have a diagram we could show that and uh and Jim can can tell us Sophia can you show them the drawing that I sent to hamlock uh Lake um was that a an in an email you said in in an email yeah okay I will try to find that was it in attachment or an it was in a direct email because I don't know how to make attachment so I made a photocopy of it okay I'm try my best to locate it so in in October we got the uh plan approved by the hicory hills Lake uh committee and they had no issue with whatever we were planning to do and we did exactly what they told us we could do I do apologize that I did take them down without having more uh permission but again I TR to reach out to you many times yeah Sophie didn't start until December we actually uh didn't have uh staff uh or full-time staff uh in the office from uh July through November uh which uh left a lot of folks kind of in alert like yourself um can we possibly narrow down uh what date it was sent now so this all must have been when did I first hear that I had an enforcement order on the trees removed that would probably be this correspond that is when I started to reply to you that I I have a bit of an issue with what your conclusion was from the walk through because uh of of what I discussed with the Victory Hills Lake people and that's when I sent you the documentation I believe I actually uh shared that with the commission if I recall correctly and Sophie while you're looking for that um just for some additional background was um did you find a uh certificate of uh completion uh for the original I'm I'm guessing it was an noi that maybe had been uh filed for the house construction I don't recall okay Madam chair there's not one recorded at the registry of Deets okay so so it looks like the order of conditions was issued in October of 2018 uh with Co it would have had about an 18mon extension so it would have expired at some point last year so it may so it looks like it's still attached to the uh the property and has not been approved okay now when when we bought the house we we checked if there were any outstanding permits or lack of permits or applications that weren't approved it was a a clean title and everything else we did everything that you would do when you buy a new home and we weren't made aware of any issues whatsoever but okay yeah it looks like uh this one might have gotten the uh order order of conditions from building the house may have uh been overlooked there's so many back and forths it's very so while you're uh while you're looking while you're looking for that Sophie I'll uh open the floor to uh members of the commission to ask questions I'll start out with asking a question would we generally consider an RDA when the um original uh orders conditions are still open well technically they're not open they have expired oh okay but there's still the property is still um Bound by the order so it has to be completed and signed off on then our certificate of compliance has to be issued before we go forward so so are you saying that the house might have never was never allowed to be built is that that what what no no no no that's not what we're saying when they um when they went to go build the house because they were building it in proximity to the lake they had to come to us and get permission um and with that uh permission uh the type of request is called a notice of intent and with that permission there are certain conditions that they have to uh observe when they're uh building the house um some of them have to do with erosion control uh but uh they also uh have to limit the work uh where they're doing work they can't do work outside the limit of work they're not allowed to a lot of times will'll be conditioned on what trees you can and cannot um touch what vegetation you can and cannot touch um so there's a lot uh that could be true in uh the order of conditions and so when that order of conditions is opened um they're supposed to be closed within 3 years um unless you ask for an extension as and as uh rich just articulated because of covid an automatic extension was granted uh but that would have expired last year and uh generally speaking um you know and I don't I'm not a don't profess in a real estate laws but uh generally speaking uh orders of conditions are expected to be closed before real estate um conveys from one party to the next as well to you know uh keep uh the the new owners from uh getting caught unawares but would that not show up when you check if the title is clean I am not certain where that shows up uh rich or Bob do you happen to know where that shows up uh it is attached at the registry of deeds that there because it is technically a lean on the property and it's an open lean and there's no reference that it has been um removed which would be the certificate compliance process typically that's picked up by the um lawyer that closing in the real estate agent that does the clothing okay okay so then um where we are right now uh I think I'll uh oh Sophie you found it yeah okay so why don't you tell us what we're looking at um Jim yeah so you see that little drawing that I guess that's the dock and then on the right hand side were these uh was that picture that you saw what that was a bunch of of tre stems and the one on the left hand side was taken down okay and then the other two on the left hand side of the property they must have been that pine trees there's no branches on it whatsoever okay and and there there was no um hamlock tree mature hamlock tree taken down there was actually a hamlock in the middle there that isn't shown there because they didn't approve that so that's not in there and that's still in in our backyard and then the ones on the left I think the the ones closest to the uh the street level are the two that were taken down yeah there and one was Hollow and the other one was the one next to it and as you can see they were very close to the house and actually half of the tree was hanging over the house okay and and these were oak trees okay so to it's only oak trees and uh that uh pine trees were taken down and then uh maybe one stem that you saw a picture of was a hamlock tree that we took off that was the one that was hanging over the uh the dock okay and so of the five that have the red circles around them um those those all five of those were removed yes no I don't think so no oh okay where you have your pointer now only that that most left uh that one was the stem that was taken off ah okay okay so on the left hand side they're two x's one of them designates one of the one of the major leaders that was taken off correct I think so and then the one the red circle on the left I I don't quite understand because I don't know what these are I have okay I mean I'm not there so I can't check it for now okay so uh so let me I'm I'm confused now so to the right of the dock there are three x's and those were taken down or not taken down not taken down only that one stem of the picture that sopia showed ah okay okay I understand so and those three X's all are three trees or it is one it is one cluster of trees one cluster of trees and only the one on the left that was hanging into the water over the dock that's the one that you saw the picture of that was taken of oh okay so of those of those three X's that are clustered together that represent a cluster of trees the leftmost one was leaning over the dock and that's the one you took down not taken down I took that off the cluster of three yes oh yes took off the cluster of three okay and then um with the ones that are circled in red that are over on the leftand corner of the property are those still there or were those removed I'm a little confused I don't know who who drew the the red lines I think Sophie drew the red lines ah okay so maybe then they are removed that I don't know so this this is not the original that came back from um uh Hickory Hills Lake right sopia I did not draw the red lines oh you didn't draw the red lines okay no nor nor the set one and so that was in the that was in the attachment that uh that Jim sent to you yeah that's that's that's it I I I need to look that up I don't remember that but okay if you say so okay all right so I think we need to get some clarity on that um I I need to look that look that up and um I I don't know that yeah I think I think let's get some clarity on that um so uh now I'm also going to lean on um some of our members that have been on the Conservation Commission for a while um and asked for some recommendations about how to uh how to move this forward given that uh we we have expired uh but not closed uh orders of conditions um we have uh uh you know an a pending RDA that the applicant would like to you know uh get uh an answer on as well what what would we recommend for next steps uh Rich so I guess probably the easiest thing is to meet with uh Jim out on site and bring the file that we have on the open order of conditions uh because it looks like he has a copy of the um approved plan because it does show the limit of work at the 30 foot so I'm not sure how all of the grading from the 30 foot down to the waterline got done and the whatever trees were in place got taken out before he took the last couple we definitely are going to need to address the the conditions that are on site that'll have to get revegetated and stabilized and then uh I would probably say the easiest thing is to recommend that uh the landscaper that he's going to use come out on site and stake where he's looking to propose to put the walkway down to the water because there was on the original plan a a space for the walkway down the right side property line and I take it we're abandoning that site for the new proposed site so we just want to make sure that uh that it's going to work in that spot but that's the way I'd probably recommend it myself just to get right out on site and figure out how to get it so we can approve the close the order of conditions that are out there issue the certificate of compliance and then have the new filing with the new walkway so we have to start all over again is that our I am sending uh well my recommendation it's not necessarily all over again we can certainly continue the application for the walkway that you're looking for yeah we we would come out on site anyways to see where you're looking to put the walkway um have it marked with some stakes and some flagging tape so we know exactly where you're looking to put it yeah um myself I'd like to see a little more detail as far as how wide it's going to be what materials you're going to use uh how you're going to make sure that it's stabilized and then we still need to stabilize the uh open ground that is out there now we'll need to vegetate that and replant it so that we don't have erosion problems in the future so rich let me ask a question in that um diagram that he uh had shared in his application that showed the stone um you know uh like the flag stone uh or or split Stone and then the uh crushed stone underneath are you looking for more detail there or your detail that you really want it's about how how it's going to be stabilized if it's not um you know if there's not a lot of digging uh well myself it's just a little bit more specifics on the materials that are going to be used because that's just an example picture of a bunch of Boulders and natural stone um I I believe he said they were looking to place some blue stone in there and you still have to put in some drainage and things like that underneath the walkway to make sure that it doesn't heave and move you can't just put a little bit of stone and then a bigger Stone on top of it you're still going to tend to get some slippage and some movement and we would expect to it sounds like he's working with a landscaper that is landscaper would be able to provide him that kind of detail yeah yeah I think I saw a landscape and I may be incorrect but I thought I saw a landscaper name in with some of the uh examples in his application is that correct Jim no that is just a uh a picture that we uh pulled from the internet so no no no that's not the landscaper that we are talking actually so and this is kind of kind of strange maybe but if you go to our property now on the driveway there's a few pallets already with some of that blue stone okay because when before I even realized I had to get permits um I was a bit too excited and I ordered some materials already um and then I walked into sopia's office and then it turned out it's it's a whole process that we have to go through first so uh these these pellets are sitting on my driveway and that that's some of the materials that we are planning to use okay I do recall seeing that material sitting there uh I was just looking to see if I had a photo of it but I don't think I took a photo of it Madam chair uh yes Bob I'm sharing my screen this this is I found this on the Google Drive uhuh shows uh existing trees and trees plan to be removed from a folder uh created in 2018 okay I don't know if it's or not but I thought I I'd share it yeah thanks for digging that up W can you make heads or tails of what we're looking at though you survey located all the trees property line so where's the uh so we think the rightand side is the lake yeah the right hand side is the lake you can see the proposed doc there that rectangle okay uh okay I do see I do see the proposed doc all right and have you looked at this enough to know which ones are being removed and which ones are staying nope I have not I just found it and calleded it up this is interesting yeah it is interesting I've actually never seen one with that level of detail on it before I think um I think we may want to just take this offline and study it uh a little bit oh what did you uh what's the name of the file again Bob um or was it in the original I'll tell you in a second 141 called 1135 Das 080118 tree plan existing and proposed it came up when I when I did a search in the Google Drive for 141 Hemlock which I didn't know when I and it had talks about a septic house plan and a septic plan there's a whole bunch of uh it's a uh Google drive or uh it looks like it is SharePoint Okay Google Drive Okay Google the name of the file is 1135 space- space 080118 space- space stre plan okay thank you for finding that awesome okay Bob uh thanks for that getting back to uh the original question of uh recommendations to move forward is there anything that you would add to Rich's recommendations on uh moving forward with this um well I want to see for sure uh you know like where are these trees that were cut cut down um and uh you know I think uh I I second the idea a of going out there you know with the file and meeting with a fell on on site you know when he gets back uh from wherever he is I I think he's away now from what I I I think I understood no I think he's back uh no no no no I'm still not back in Massachusetts though I oh oh okay okay I'll I'll be back uh very late April okay so you know maybe in the beginning of May or the end of April whatever it is that he's back you know have a a a site visit out there um because now he's in the awkward position you know the prior owners didn't close out the previous order of conditions you know the house has been built the septic is in that's what the previous order of conditions was on because I I seen the recall that we did an initial approval on this which is why I was doing the Google search um you know of the the search of the Google Drive and then they came back to revise it because they uh tweaked the house side a little because it was very it's a very very small tight lot and I seem to recall they came back and tweaked the house site um you know before they actually built the house and and we did a minor revision and so that's what I was trying to find when I came across you know this there's there's there's got to be 20 35 uh reference in this site in in the Google Drive okay yeah but right but is is this in any way holding up to get going with the uh pathway down down the hill I mean I understand the tree issue is a tree issue and if we have to replant we have to replant I guess um but but um how can we move forward on the the passway down because when I get back there in early may it is a slippery slight and I would like to get that uh taken care of as quickly as we can I I think what um Bob and Rich are um are saying is that you know and it's consistent with my own understanding is that because there is a an expire ired order of condition um that was never never closed we we don't let people start new work until the old Works closed out and um you know you didn't create the problem but unfortunately as the as the homeowner um you inherit the problem um so we need to get that old uh expired order of condition closed out so that then we can um consider your uh your RDA and and in the meantime right there's nothing uh that keeps you from getting your you know progressing your RDA and uh in parallel of getting the um uh pathway staked out um so that we can can look at that and have those photos and get the photos on board uh for the materials that you actually have already staged in your driveway okay that I can do that's not a problem the the question that I didn't have is since I did take out Title Insurance should I notify the title insurance company because I I feel that I get if I get a clear title I need to get my lawyer involved that that helped me closing on the on the property I think that constitutes legal advice and I am not able I'm not an attorney I can't give you legal advice um yeah but it sounds like it it has it's now going to be my responsibility to close out something that I I I haven't anything yes as the homeowner yeah as the homeowner it is now your responsibility to close out um that order of condition that you inherited from the previous homeowner but how how and and we know for certain there is an outstanding issue on the house yeah yeah the documentation was not closed out um so that's definitely an issue uh whether it's a big issue or a minor issue um will be dependent on uh doing that site walk with Sophie uh with the original documentation and the original order of conditions and reviewing uh what needs to happen to close out that order of condition but it almost sounds like I I have to notify the lawyer that closed me because if if he it was an oversight on his side then I might as well get him involved right y you may want to consider doing that I again um I don't know I'm trying to protect my own interest here right yeah I think you have to protect your own interest and and we can't give you legal advice we can only tell you what the uh Wetland uh regulations um require uh Bob you had a comment well I would just say that before a house sale uh the commission routinely gets these um urgent requests from Realtors or from closing attorneys about oh we need to get an order of conditions um issued for this EXT out uh you know existing notice of intent on this property uh before it sells because otherwise it's going to hold up the closing um so the normal process is that you know somebody discovers this you know during uh the investigation of the property you know that that's up for consideration to be sold you know they notice it at the registry of deeds and um you know and we're always told oh this has to happen by such and such a date because otherwise we won't be able to close and so I'm just uh saying that you know nor normally there's a reason because otherwise then you know if you're the new homeowner and it's not closed out you know you inherit a problem that's not of your making so um I I second Mary's uh advice that we can't give you legal advice I'm just saying you know this this is what normally happens you know when a when a property is sold that has an outstanding order of conditions that has been closed out okay so but but really we only know what what the extent of it is when we do another sideb right correct okay so let's let's schedule that then for as early as we can in May yeah we'll let you uh work that um schedule with uh Sophie um and you know since we can't do it until May we'll ask that when you're available that um you know when you're back that Sophie kind of uh put that toward the top of her priority list um so that you know you're not left hanging too much longer uh and it sounds like so our next meeting is May 1st uh which I think would probably be too soon uh to expect the site walk to have happened and to have uh some feedback there but uh what about uh continuing this hearing to May 15 yeah no that's fine okay uh so I am looking for a uh motion by members of the commission to continue this hearing to May 15 yeah that's good I have one more question no so oh yeah go ahead and ask your question what am I supposed to do now with the enforcement order that I received in terms of uh or related to the the three removals do I need to do anything it's it's not that I'm going to be fine or anything right uh no you're working with us on on that right so uh yeah and we you know we always try to work with folks who are working with us um uh with regard to violations um Bob you had a comment well my suggestion would be that he take that uh plan that you know Sophie found that was he had sent to um or I'm not sure whether he sent it to Hickory Hills lake or he received it from hi hick reels Lake you know and when he gets back he annotates it you know like this is this is uh the tread that were were or weren't cut down and and so on and so forth you know so we have more information in detail uh you know when w when the next time we talk with them yeah okay just Clarity for the ones that uh that uh he's taken down and then with regard to the ones that were previously taken down it'd be great if you could annotate those where you can um identify the stumps and then um Sophie will ask you to verify that as a standard procedure okay that's that that's fine um again I'm I'm trying to resolve it if we need to plant a few I'm I'm All willing to u to corporate it is just that I I wanted to make sure that everybody understands that I didn't go into the backyard as a wild man cutting all kinds of trees down because that certainly not what I did yeah that's uh that's fair um and you wouldn't be the first first uh homeowner to get caught uh in a situation like this where you have inherited uh you know uh issues from previous owners it's as Bob mentioned it's it's doesn't usually the process captures these things but it doesn't always uh H get captured and sometimes people are caught um inheriting problems from the previous owners okay so we scheduled for next meeting on May the 15th and and before that I set up a an uh walk through again with Sophia I guess right yes and uh you'll get that uh you'll get that drawing with the trees and uh annotate uh exactly which ones are no longer there yeah I I I go back to my files and find the one that I had approved from uh uh hamlock legs people yeah very good and then as a as a matter of formality the Conservation Commission also has to approve the uh the uh recommendation to continue to 5:15 so I think I'm looking for a motion from my Commissioners to continue this hearing to 5:15 so move Mike thank you Mike do I have a second second rich thank you Rich uh we'll go for a roll call vote uh Bob peas hi Jenny puer hi Rich bur hi Michael roou hi Chris St Germain I and I for myself okay we will uh see you again on the 15th and uh Sophie we'll see you before that okay great thank you very much you don't need me anymore right for this evening uh that is correct we don't need you anymore tonight okay then thanks so much thank you have a good evening bye bye okay moving along uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of luneberg's protection and Municipal bylaws of public hearing on a notice of intent by John and Annette Gallagher for the Reconstruction of an existing dock within the 50 Foot and the 100 foot buffer zone of wetland on uh Lake Shirley at 376 Sunset Lane do we have uh John out a net or their representative here on the call tonight Madame chair Greg Roy with Dillis Roy I'm representing John and Annette uh this evening I do believe that uh they are on the call as well so but I will represent them this evening I appreciate Greg I appreciate your time it wouldn't be appropriate if I shared my screen that would be excellent thank you bear with me okay can you see the plan there yes okay and I will zoom in um so as you read um we're here tonight uh with a notice of intent that we filed at 376 Sunset Lane um the property is an existing um house um on Sunset Lane uh obious L right on the water Lake Shirley is um is located here on the left hand side of your screen over on this portion I'm assuming you can all see my cursor uh good um yeah the house is located it's this uh polygon shape here that we have the cross-hatch is shown um right in here and uh Sunset Lane is on the uh the right hand side of the screen here labeled labeled as such there are two driveways that exist uh one lower one here which uh which accesses the garage all of this is existing and then there's an upper uh driveway here um uh with additional parking areas um the back of the the site or the front of the site the water side of the of the property um is all um pretty much 100% uh lawn and improved areas um we uh there are two ret two levels of retaining walls at this property uh one wall exists right along the edge of the water um which forms the uh the edge of the lake during normal water conditions um and then there's an upper uh Terrace if you will uh retaining wall my highlighter out here and so we can maybe pop this out a little bit better U there's a upper retaining wall right in here again all of this is existing uh today I'm just trying to give you a uh an idea of the site um really we're here today for um we originally filed the application to reconstruct the deck on the property the existing deck is this rectangle shown right here um and it is uh in significant need of repair it uh it it it is um um I mean I don't want to speak negatively but it's uh it really needs some work it's uh it's not really a safe condition um it does provide um some access obviously on the on the Upper Floor um and it's not really a safe condition so the applicant uh contacted us several months ago to to look at uh putting together this application to replace that deck um I did want to mention also the limits of the 30 foot uh no disturb zone are shown in is this orange line right here and the limit of the 50 Foot no no build zone or no structure zone is shown here which which goes through the middle of the uh of the existing house so the the location of the existing house and the existing deck today uh is such that the the deck is within the uh the 50 Foot no build Zone today as a pre-existing condition um a small portion of the house is actually also within the 30-foot uh no build again these are all pre-existing conditions it's been that way since prior to the uh regulations being enforced um all of the area between the house and the retaining wall the first retaining wall and then also the area between the the between the two retaining walls is improved manicured lawn um so there's um there's no um uh the the area that we're proposing to do the work uh in the deck is all um previously Disturbed area uh the applicant um subsequent to the filing that we made uh with the commission um actually asked us to add a um a safety fence right at the top of this uh this retaining wall um I think some members may may maybe in this category they are uh they are in grandparent mode uh which is of course exciting uh but they uh they have some definite safety concerns with some of the young ones um that are out playing in the backyard so they are really interested in putting is improving the safety uh there in putting a a four foot high um metal fence like you see around a pool uh for pool safety um so we did uh submit a revised plan to you last week with that detail on it so really we're proposing two things we're proposing that fence and we're proposing uh the Reconstruction of the deck um the deck as I highlighted in in yellow is is the existing location um there is a a modest size um expansion proposed um we're showing that in the red line here on the plan um and that's really to provide uh some some more usability there um to provide some access to other portions of the house that exist over here that don't really have any uh any access at the moment um we're proposing of course we can't there's no configuration we can because of the way that the existing conditions of the site there's no way we can propose this in any way that's outside of the 50 Foot uh uh no build Zone but we are not proposing any work within the 30 foot um no disturb Zone um there is no portion of the proposed deck that is any closer than the existing house as a matter of fact the closest point of the house to the lake is 28 ft uh we're proposing to set the the closest point of the deck 32 and a2t away and then the the rest of the deck will be further uh further away um the applicant is looking to uh use the UND side of this for some storage um so uh is proposing to put um uh a gutter system under there under the deck if you've if you're familiar with that it it um it it keeps the uh the things that are underneath the deck from getting you know getting water um when it rains on the open decking surface so essentially you install some some gutters between the uh the floor joist and the decking system and then it and then it is piped to a gutter system on the outside of the um of the deck um so we are actually proposing to put a drywall like we a drywall like we've done in several um sites around the lake um we're proposing to install a drywall so that all of that that water will be infiltrated um so there will be no change to the on-site uh recharge um conditions uh on the property after after the project is complete um I want it to be pretty brief I did I did want to just close with saying that um D has uh issued a file number for this it is file number uh 1321 uh they did Issue one comment um which was to include the elevation of the um flood plane the 100-year flood plane associated with the lake which we did show on the uh plan here 100-year flood elevation 31.2 um all of the flood uh plane is below the um the upper um wall so we're not proposing any work within the flood plan there's no filling proposed there's no work proposed within the flood plan so it doesn't come into play but uh we did update that plan uh which was included in the revision that we we sent over to to your commission last week I think uh that is all I wanted to say I'm happy to take any questions that you may have there's no tree removal that's say I want to say we're not we're not proposing any any tree removal in this application so it's it's really just the removal and replacement of a deck uh in an area with it's already a deck or disturbed improved uh uh improved land that's it thank you Greg um Sophie uh have you had a chance to go out there and uh walk this uh location yes I did uh and is there anything that you would add to what Greg has already reviewed for us no I don't have anything to to add to it thank you okay um so I will uh I'll open the floor to uh Commissioners to see if they have uh any questions uh or comments rich thank you madam chair Greg what is the uh existing condition of where the proposed deck's going to be uh well the in in in highlighted here is is existing deck today um the areas outside of that are are lawn areas Rich so they're they're improves um you know prly Disturbed areas and the deck itself is going to be a second story deck that is correct Rich yep okay and you're planning to design and build this as such it's going to be an impervious surface yeah which is why we we didn't dare come to you with that without doing any mitigation so we're uh that's why we're proposing to put the drywall in to attenuate that and mitigate it uh the existing deck now is not impervious it's just an open open seam deck that is correct yes okay and what is the square footage of the impervious surface that you're adding inside the 50 do we have a table boy I don't think we do um I can get it to you eight by I can get you roughly Rich hang on one second 8 times 18 we're approximately I'm going to call it approximately 160 to 170 square feet okay it looks like you you've got what about 30 by 10 average so about 320 square feet yeah then if you back out the existing deck well okay yeah but the existing deck's not impervious now thank thank you Rich yeah you're right I was backing out the existing deck so you're right it's it's probably closer to that 300 square foot all right thank you Greg that's all Madam chair thank you Rich uh other questions or comments I have a question um for the commission uh where we have uh where we have already Disturbed uh you know like lawn uh that's within the 30 uh do we require hand digging of the fence post or uh can that be mechanical uh where it's already Disturbed rich I guess my question would be if they just putting a chain link fence or are they drilling or just pounding the the fence posts in uh they they want to use a more ornamental fence than a chain link Rich they want to use one of those um uh it's metal but it wouldn't be kind of looks like a rod iron fence but it wouldn't be rod iron don't don't don't get me wrong it's that's a little bit I think out of the price point but um that lighter duty metal and it has the the vertical slats so sort of rail on the top rail on the bottom vertical slats and it would be about four feet high and it's usually Square tubes um so you know I don't know how those are installed I would assume they would be driven I don't believe that this fence would rise to the level of needing to have concrete uh support post installed so I would think that they would be driven but I'm not exactly certain on that I I don't think you know if the commission has an issue with um with mechanical equipment at the top of that wall um I don't think we would object to uh to accepting a condition that they be done either driven or uh or by hand if they needed to be uh a larger excavation and another quick question would the uh applicants be open to um changing the construction of the deck to allow it for an open seam per permeable decking as is currently there well they're on the call so I mean I think if I think my uh so John and Annette if you're here if you want to uh if you want to pop on mute and answer any of these things feel free yeah so so I guess I'm I'm you know this is why we hide your great because I'm a little um I guess I'm ignorant when it comes to this stuff so what exactly is a question so we would you're you're proposing to put the gutter system under the under the new deck correct John uh which of course makes it essentially an impervious surface um you know we are proposing to infiltrate that collect that runoff and infiltrate it in the ground as if it would as if it was a you know as if it would happen naturally through the deck slats what the commission has asked is would you be amenable uh to in in Li of doing that uh just leaving it as open as a conventional open Deck with no gutter system underneath so so my answer to that is obviously I prefer the the uh the former you know where we we vented it out but if that's it that's what needs to be done then I'll just yeah we'll we'll just live we just won't have storage and that so that's all yeah I mean yes so the answer is yes if that's if that's what you need me to do then that's what I'll do thank you very much yeah I I for myself unfortunately couldn't be in favor of impervious surface in that in the 50 Foot no build Zone but we have allowed in the 50 Foot decks but as long as they are uh permeable decks and still allow the water to permeate through yeah and and as far as the the fence um I call it the safety fence um yeah that that is there's no way I'm planning on like digging and putting in concrete to put this stuff in this is just a fence if they see the fence they'll stay away from it but we have we have one grandchild and we have two more on the way and it's um one of one of them almost walked right off the edge of it so um we just want to put something up to sort of you know dissuade him from going there at all so thank you very much thank you thank you Rich um Bob call on you next yeah um this is Rich trembley's old house if I'm not mistaken no no that's that's next that's next one oh this isn't this isn't it's too it's too up the it's it's too uh there's um one was 286 the north yeah it's well I'm looking at the wrong address yeah right no that's uh that's the next hearing okay um uh I'm looking at the wrong hearing 376 ah 376 maybe I said I might have said 386 cuz that's so I apologize if I Alle you okay so um yeah I I can tell you that there's quite a few people that we've said no to uh that have asked to put impervious surfaces within the uh 50 foot no disturb um uh quite a few and um you know it's like the fact that it's up in the air uh you know a second uh you know it's second story so I'm assuming there' be like 10t underneath it um what are they planning to put under the deck are they planning to put pavers or patio or lawn or just what's there now which is long yeah we don't we don't propose to put any impervious surface there but but if you're not collecting if rain's not coming through there that nothing's going to well that live there that is true that that you know and that and that's we we understand that that's been the position of the commission which is why we um we we designed and proposed the a situation that as you know a system that would collect that and infiltrate it in the in a you know what we view is an equivalent manner um so all of that runoff from that from that deck um yes it would not drain through the slats as proposed but it would be collected and it would be directly infiltrated you know immediately adjacent to it so really it's it's recharging the same U it the recharge is effectively going to be the same um so I'm sorry John I don't want to cut you off no no I just if I can add something so the only spot I really um was asking for it I guess to be drained out so I could put storage on was under the existing deck the extension that could be wide open because we have a there's a slider coming out the back of the house there and I'm certainly not going to build anything around so we can't go in and out that would just that would remain untouched with what's underneath it it it's just underneath the existing deck where um I think you're talking about over here yeah where it's highlighted yellow that would that's the only spot that I was looking to actually have some storage okay thank you for that clarification John so that you know that's obviously uh you know it's it's on the plan for Reon we we're we're hopeful that that we that the uh the commission uh would would find it approvable but as the applicant said if if it's if it's a uh if it's a non-starter we certainly would rather uh build a deck with open slats than uh than uh than the alternative so thank you um I would suggest the chair the might want to do a straw poll on the deck issue yeah I think that's a I think it's a good idea Bob um Sophie you were asking to share your screen oh yeah I was just trying to um show you guys the uh defense example that Ryan Proctor sent oh yeah I can stop sharing here you can share I forgot that we had sent you a picture thank you for that um and they also mentioned they watch some videos and it's typically installed with a post hole digger so it sounds manual yeah you're not we're not talking about a a significant fence here that you'd like a chain link where you'd put it in concrete so and and Brian asked me for a picture so I sent something quick I'm certainly not going to have any spikes on the top of the fence just we we relied on Pinterest here yeah exactly do you want me to try to find that Sophie or are you gonna share it oh it wasn't it wasn't showing I saw I saw it oh I didn't see it I'm sorry maybe it was my screen good no I I saw it okay good I didn't see it but that's fine yeah maybe you still had your drawing over your zo I probably did yeah that's that's mine that's one of my famous tricks um yeah so I think uh I think I we'll do that straw poll on where uh the commissioner uh set with regard to the uh the perious versus impervious um uh deck and uh Rich uh you've already said that you're I think against it does it change at all uh if the uh square footage is reduced of the impervious um s surface uh unfortunately I'm not going to be in favor of any impervious surface added within the 50 Foot no build Zone I can waver to the continuation of the existing deck footprint as long as it's a prvious designed open deck did that did that make sense that well I thought I was following you until you got to the last section of it um so uh let me just ask a couple of binary questions so if the if the existing deck is impervious and the extension is perious no I would not be in favor of that okay if the uh full deck is uh perious yes I would I would be okay with expanding the the Second Story deck as long as the the understory was maintained as it is today okay I think that's clear thank you y okay Bob I'm rich okay unfortunately okay Mike you went back on mute let's try that again um am I under the impression that because the existing deck that's in the 50 no bill zone is grandfathered in that uh are we do we are we accustomed as a commission to allow extensions on a no build area as is being proposed right here Bob you have a comment speaking for myself in the past my memory is that the commission has allowed perious decks within the no structure Zone because the intent uh and this is my interpretation which may have a different one you know the intent of the no structure Zone was to um you know not uh have uh or one of the intents was uh not to add impervious surface you know that close to the lake yeah if I could if I may Madam chair yes Greg I I mean I think it's also you know um It's a situation where there's really I I I get that we're proposing a modest expansion to the deck but we're not in anything that I believe is really out out of sight here um you know the the longer portion of the deck is is an eight is extends eight feet out from the house so we're not talking about a huge you know expansive deck it's really just it's really just a provide some functionality and some connectivity to the rooms upstairs um and it's a situation as as I said this is a pre-existing situation in a already Disturbed portion of the site um already Disturbed um area I should say um so it's not like we're proposing something that's that's in a you know pristine uh undisturbed uh section of uh of Shoreline here um so I I in my I think I agree with Bob I I can I can remember times when we've done this um in not the the not the distant past so and you know we've truthfully we've we've done some impervious um within the 32 with the with uh with some drywalls but you know of course every case is different I understand that I'm not trying to site precedent on the commission but I I just I just wanted to impart that um it's our it's our contention here that we're not really um proposing something that's that's altogether um out of the you know out of the realm of of uh reasonable reasonableness I guess is what I'm saying thank you Greg Mike back to you um I'm just curious you know whether you put a deck even though you're going to be S uh asking to put a deck that's impervious underneath that deck we're going to lose whatever um vegetation is under there correct because light is not going to be able to sustain any vegetation which means now you're going to create perhaps um a runoff issue because there's nothing to hold back any of the water um there's Mulch and and grass under there no mulching grass is all that's under there and it it is a second floor I I get the point um it is a second floor deck so it's not like it's really low to the ground um it definitely will get some light in there um like a deck that's you know say 3 or four feet above the ground it will be shaded it it will certainly get some light so if that helps be able to support vegetation with that deck and not create another issue about runoff into the lake so I'm not going to say that the vegetation is gonna thrive thrive but but um I I don't believe that we're going to impart either way we do it uh whether it's an imper when whether it's a permeable surface like it appears the commission is leaning or as we're proposing with the collection system with an with a direct infiltration to the to the uh to the groundwater um I don't believe you're going to have a an erosion issue here it's not it's not excessively steep um so I and it's it's a lawn surface um on the downg gradi inside of it that it would be running through and I really just don't I don't see a concern either way I mean I guess I will say that um if frankly if there was a concern about that which again I don't really believe there should be but if there was a concern about that it would be a chalk in the column of of adding the uh the infiltration system like we're proposing it because it would uh it would eliminate uh water flowing on that section and it would um and it would but it would still uh give you the same level if not better um infiltration to the groundw recharge to the groundwater so the recharge system is still part of this project regardless of whether well it wouldn't be we wouldn't install it if we weren't putting the gutter system in because it wouldn't collect it then it wouldn't collect anything you see what I'm saying so if we if we didn't have any runoff to collect on it from underneath the deck with the gutter system that we were proposing we we wouldn't put the recharge system in because it wouldn't it wouldn't collect it wouldn't collect anything I hear what you're say go ahead no I was just going to say do you want me to um do you have other questions or you want to just Ponder uh and have me come back to you yeah I I really don't think it's a good idea to put a deck when there's vegetation underneath that's really um not going to get the sunlight uh that it would normally have gotten without the deck above it I mean am I just seeing something uh by myself here or or no I I don't think you are I mean it's a it's a no structure Zone you know okay and and that'll be the way I'm going to rule unfortunately that I don't think it's a good idea to um extend this deck because I think it's just going to create other issues that are really not acceptable and that uh that's the way I see it okay thank you Mike all right Chris St Germain uh what are your thoughts about the uh uh extension of the deck and the perious or imperviousness of the deck kind of wanted to find out if it was Southern facing because I feel that if it's a second story deck that it could get enough sunlight under a two a second story deck but I can't I can't tell the orentation of the house uh North North is this way so it's it's uh you're not you're not sharing um Greg why don't you share real quick and Point North out to us forgot about that sorry how about that can you see that now yeah yes so North is up so um it's facing uh West all right so it's already challenge yeah Northwest yeah all right so I wouldn't be in favor um and so not in favor of the deck or uh the deck expansion at all or not in favor of the uh not in favor of the impervious not in favor of the impervious deck okay but you're okay with the expansion of the deck yes okay thank you uh Jenny so did I my understanding is that underneath the deck was also planned to be storage I'll uh I'll let Greg take that yeah he would the the yeah I believe it's being used that way now and we'd like to he'd like to continue using it that way after it's done so just like storing like kayaks or something like that not like enclosed storage that's that's correct yep open a um so I mean I would be in favor of the extension if it was perv yes I can agree with everybody else okay um okay and and uh my thoughts are uh it's a it's a no structure Zone and that means expanding structures within that zone e even though they you know this one seems like it's sort of doubling uh the square footage is that it we don't have the latitude to do that it's just my own interpretation of the regulation so that's kind of where I I stand with it um but I think that's uh two of us that are uh taking a more uh rigid interpretation and it seems like everybody is against uh the impervious um deck uh but that there's sort of a majority in favor of a per de I counted that out correctly so if if I may yes Greg um we would amend then uh we would amend the application to exclude the proposed gutter system and and commit to a um a standard uh deck with uh open slats like you would like you would see okay okay do we have questions or comments from other members of the commission uh no other comments I'll open it to uh any members of the public okay and I'm not seeing um I'm not seeing any uh anyone raise their hand from members of the public which is fine um so it it looks like uh yeah and I guess I'm gonna I I would think I mean a lot of times we do allow uh for something to straightforward is this uh to be an amendment after the fact and before the uh before the signed letter uh goes through assuming that we do go forward and approve this is anybody opposed to that going ahead and uh making a decision and allowing uh the applicant to update us uh how quickly would you be able to get that update to us Greg Fa very fast we you that's a not a big change but I would appre we would appreciate if if if if it could be conditioned um it seems like I don't want to put words in the commission's mouth but should you should you approve approve it that it seems like you could do a condition that subject to uh the deck being a permeable surface with no gutter system and that would that sounds reasonable um and then we we would certainly revise the plan for you so then uh I think I'm looking for a uh a motion uh to approve the uh approve the noi uh with uh you know dependent on Whose Motion in this right the uh hand digging or driving of the um post for the proposed fence and with a condition that the uh deck uh is a perious deck with open slats Madam chair I'd make a motion to hang on uh no no he's good he's good oh okay then go go Rich Madam chair I'd make a motion to approve the application uh with the special conditions that the decking be standard open seam decking uh the expansion to be allowed um the proposed dryw to be denied and simple hand construction installation of the fence I reckon that motion oh PE very good okay uh we will go for a uh roll call vote uh Chris St Germain I Mike larouche no Rich Burch hi Jenny puer hi Bob Peas I and uh I vote uh no as well uh so you uh carry the approval with a majority thank you we appreciate it okay thank you moving along uh we will go to the next uh next hearing and Greg you can stop sharing or get ready to share the next one I'm on yeah I'll I'll stop sharing just for formality yeah uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing for request for an amendment to an order of conditions D number 2081 1310 by Matt matano for new site improvements of a staircase reconstructed porch with expanded footprint reconstruct reconstructed concrete walkway and masonry walkway within the buffer zone of a wetland on Lake Shirley at 386 Sunset Lane um do we have the applicant Andor their representative uh here tonight Madam chair Greg Roy with Dillon Roy I'm representing the applicant um I think that Matt is also on the call at least I saw him earlier I think so yeah he's here hey Matt Hi how are you good um again uh if I could share my screen Madam chair yes please do thank you okay so uh this I will give a little history on uh this one as you said is 386 Sunset Lane so this is two properties south of the one we just discussed there's one piece of property in between um and this is the former dis uh location of the disting of a distinguished member of your previous distinguished member of your board uh Mr Richard tremble um and uh Rich had an open order of had an order condition uh that was issued by the commission uh a number of years ago for some improvements on the site including the replacement of the lake walls um a few of the other walls on the site and some other various improvements that we actually uh requested certificate of compliance on I think uh late summer early fall and and your commission did uh did Grant that and close that uh certificate of compliance um shortly thereafter um and again I don't my dates exactly correct uh but shortly thereafter um it was discovered that the septic system needed to be upgraded uh for the sale of the property as Rich was looking to sell the property and the title 5 I believe uhu it did not pass the title 5 so the U the septic system needed to be upgraded so we filed a new uh notice of intent for the construction of that septic system um and that septic system is located right here on the side of the property right there leeching field right next to the house um this uh stop light looking thing is the uh the septic tank and then there's a pump chamber right here uh that that pumps the up fluent up uh to the uh to the leeching field um that that notice of intent uh was approved and and an order conditions was issued for that work uh and it is still open we have not uh requested a certificate of compliance for that work as of as of today um the uh that was filed by Mr TR before the sale and is now effectively trans transferred over to uh Mr Metrano um after the purchase of the of the property so he as you discussed in some earlier hearings um is the new proud owner of the uh order of conditions that is open on the property in virtue of the fact that he's the uh the new owner of the land so so um Mr Pano is proposing uh and actually currently has a current um uh open building permit uh to make renovations to the house um a lot of interior Renovations are being are being made um on the house um and modifications to the um to the exterior such as the installation of some Dormers um most of that is is uh the work that's being done currently um is all being done on the existing structure there's no new footprint proposed so that building uh permit was issued and they are working on that um there are a few pieces of that work that are expansions or modifications to the exterior footprint of the house uh or changes to the exterior footprint of the house and that does require uh does require approval from your board uh which is why we're here this evening um because we had an open order of conditions on the site and because the what we felt that the um the proposed modifications um we're um minor enough in nature we're asking you for an amended order of conditions so we're asking you to amend the existing order of conditions that is open um to allow for the construction of the of the additional work that we're proposing this evening um so we we're um and by the way this this other than um other than procedure there's not a lot of difference we still advertise this um as a public hearing uh with a butter notification um and your board is free under the amended order of conditions process um to issue a new or amended order of conditions that may include new conditions if you see fit so um you you have latitude to do that under this process um we're not asking you for a minor Amendment which would mean which would mean that you wouldn't issue a new order conditions you just approve the work as a red line that's not what we're asking we're asking you to actually issue an amended uh you know essentially a new decision uh to include this plan in in the work which we thought was was the uh the right way to go in this case so I just wanted to give you that update uh because it's it is a little atypical um so I'll go through and and and talk about what we are proposing uh for changes at the site um and there's there's four or five things here that we're proposing um first there's two trees that um that we've identified that we would like to remove uh the first we we were hopeful to save this as part of the um the work on the uh the septic system but really when we installed th this right here is a retaining wall that needed to be installed um on you know associated with the um with the title 5 system and after all of the grading was done in this area um it it's the the base of this tree really it has fill the fill needed to be placed up against that tree and um and it's really not likely to survive uh so we're uh we're proposing to remove that tree uh secondly um we're proposing to remove a maple tree um that the applicant believes is a little bit distressed um we don't have any issues you know replanting uh I don't think we have um we've shown U planting locations at this point but um we would like to to remove those two trees so that's sort of activity number one um activity number two uh there's an existing it's a little difficult to see but there's an existing uh sort of linear uh concrete walkway that exists right in this location and it comes down like this and then over like that um and it's a it's an imper it's a it's an impervious concrete walkway the um the applicant would like to remove and replace that with a permeable surface so um a masonry open joint uh masonry type system um in a similar configuration just with a little bit of uh artistic flare if you will or uh um you know interest with some curve curval linear features instead of just a uh a straight uh a straight path but it would be uh an improvement in that it would um it would convert the surface from a impermeable surface uh part of which is within your 30 foot uh no touch and part of which is within the uh between the 30 and the 50 um it would convert that all of that surface over to uh an imper excuse me a perious surface with open joints uh secondly uh um this uh deck structure here existing deck structure here um has no access to the um it's a second floor deck and it has no access down to the U the lower level um and the applicant would like to put in access to the lower level um what what they've proposed is to do a circular uh staircase six feet in diameter um it would be like you would imagine a circular staircase with the with the spokes um you know projecting out from a center pole uh the pole is really the only portion that would be in the you know fixed to the ground so you're talking about a a small diameter for 6 in diameter uh post um that would be a fixed to the ground um and the rest of it is suspended um over the over the the ground surface um with the stair staircase you know spiring spir spiraling up to the second floor deck uh so that's uh that's the third item that is proposed and um fourth and I think lastly unless I'm missing something um there's an existing porch today that is right in this location in the uh front portion on the Sunset Lane side of the of the property uh they are proposing to remove that porch and to construct a larger porch uh which is in that darker line right there um that um that portion of the project there is no portion of the site that is outside of the 100 foot buffer zone so every portion of the of the site is within the 100 foot buffer zone but this portion of the site is not within the 50 Foot uh no build structure zone so this uh this is approximately um I think 70 to 80 ft away from the water on both sides of the uh of the peninsula so it sort of splits the the difference between the uh both of the water Water's Edge and uh unless um unless I am missing something I believe that is the uh the long and the short of what we're proposing so essentially removal of two trees reconstruction of the um existing concrete walk to um a perious um masonry open joint walkway construction of a a spiral staircase and the removal and replacement of the uh ports on the front of the property uh with that I will um happen to take any questions Madam chair thank you Greg um yeah so the uh the uh what are the proposed uh pavers um that uh are going to go back in there um I'm not sure that we have it selected yet the type uh but they would be the type that has you know uh not tight joints with a you know with the the polymetric sand or whatever you call it in the middle of it we'd be you know doing an open joint um solution with either pstone or or something that's pervious uh in between those to uh allow for infiltration but I'm not sure that we have a selected material Matt if you have something you can feel free to interrupt I um yeah so we we haven't not picked a material for that yet um currently they have some uh pavers in some areas but uh we definitely don't want the poured concrete that's for sure and it is right now the way it's at it is sunken down so that there is um little bit of a hazard back there as far as tripping and that type of thing okay yeah I I just wanted to ask understand what it is it's kind of shown as Stone uh with you know really wide um joints uh which would be very porous you know but uh you know if you but it says pavers so if you went back with something with pavers a lot of times people do pavers like abutting each other which is much less for us so that's uh why I wanted to ask that uh that question um okay and you're removing uh one 12 inch Maple within the 30 foot uh yeah and uh what are you proposing um for replacement uh we have like I said we have not proposed that yet I do understand that we would need to replace those uh per your bylaw um so if if the commission um wants to see those on a plan we can certainly show them um but we uh we just believe that tree is causing a hazard back there so um but we do we don't int we do intend to plant replant uh pursuant to your requirement okay um and then the uh square footage of the of the staircase it's a six it's six feet in diameter so it's p r Square huh P nine times 3.14 28 square feet and it's not it's it's it's perious it's not um it's not impervious at all it's uh like you would Envision a um I mean I actually have a architecturals here that might might show it uh let's see yeah so you kind of see there it's an open tread type system with just the you know the the Treads attached to the center pole and and spy around spiral around okay okay uh so I'll open the floor to uh members of the commission uh Jenny uh you had your hand open or hand up so the the maple um I saw that and it looked pretty healthy I'm just what was the issue with the map I have a picture of it too um what was the are they worried that it's diseased or I don't know do you want to speak to that Matt I'm not I'm not extremely up to speed on that either yeah so the um the one of the top branches is broken we we we got to see it in the fall and uh the previous owner told us that he there's no way that he thinks it's coming back so ideally would' love to save the tree if we can but I honestly don't think the tree is gonna make it um because of some of the you know dead Limbs and stuff that we had had seen on it but we wanted to to to bring that up I mean if we if if we can't save it and we have to take it out we'd rather have the ability to do that than um come back to this project come back and go through the whole process again you know so that's kind of where we're at um but we will we will put an effort in this spring to to see how it's going to come around before we do anything okay Jenny I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off it's okay oh yeah because it's it's so it looks like and I thought the limbs looked pretty healthy um and Mike was there with me I don't know if he wants to speak to it at all yeah Madam chair thank you Jen yes Mike uh I too observe the tree and the tree is stunning uh I have to say it it sort of sets off the whole lake uh uh from the deck area yes it looks like it was topped um at some point and it's very windy on that site um but I too observe the buds as Jen had and I'm willing to give that tree a try I think it's strong enough um and um I think it's going to be could be tougher to start a smaller tree in that condition than try to um uh to to knock out this tree when it probably has a chance I realized um it means you know if it doesn't happen that you know you got to go back but um I'm taking a bark uh course right now and I I I seem to see a lot of Promise in this tree to come back but once again I'm just an amateur tree um admirer um so that's my my two cents on the the maple tree okay thank you Mike any other uh questions or comments um the you're keeping there's two oak trees you're you're just taking down the one correct correct okay the one that's closest to the setic system okay thank you Greg you bet thank you um Sophie you had your hand raised um yes so when I was on the the site visit with uh Ryan Proctor a small brown bird flew into a cavity in the tree so it is being used it's serving a purpose and I didn't observe any buildings or structures that I could foresee um being impacted Ed by the tree as it's it's not super tall um and it looked somewhat healthy at when I was there that's all okay thank you um is there anything else uh since since you are uh talking is there anything else that you wanted to add to uh for our consideration on the project no that was my primary concern um we just discussed uh the possibility of that tree being removed and I just was not super in favor of that decision okay that's all thank you Sophie um Bob um I have absolutely no trouble with uh replacing the uh porch on the Sunset Lane side um I remember when we did the septic system uh there was a fairly extensive discussion about the 24in oak uh that they would try to save it but they weren't sure that they could uh you know based on the grading and it's not surprising to me that the it's uh it should come down um and it's outside 30 I would note it's between the 30 and the 50 that's correct and I had no trouble with the open uh spiral staircase uh um and uh you know to me if they want to take the tree down it I have no trouble with it so long as they do replacement trees but me I would want to see a diagram you know that shows you know what the replacement trees would be and where they would be and I would love to have some kind of more uh definitive uh statement about what they're going to use for pavers uh because uh there are you know permeable is not a binary permeable impermeable is not like a binary condition um and so we could have you know you know big differences you know B based on uh you know what what pavers are uh Chosen and you know what what goes in between them and stuff like that and so um I'm hoping that we can uh see some more definition about that and so uh speaking for myself as one member I'm hoping we're going to continue this uh so that we can get some more information thank you Mary thank you uh Bob uh rich thank you madam chair uh I'm in agreement with Bob as far as the existing porch being taken off on the Sunset Lane side and increased that's pretty much all pavement over on that side I think anyways so I would have no problem with that I do agree with his recollection on the 24 inch oak that's being removed I was surprised that they tried to leave it where the root system was in such close proximity to all of the uh construction that was happening as far as the spiral staircase can it be swung around to the um southern side of the deck to be a little close to the 50 Foot um no build line you mean in here Rich yeah somewhere on that side I don't know it's pretty it it's be pretty close to the septic tanks yeah it is pretty close to septic tanks now but then you'd only be talking about maybe a foot or two off instead of maybe five or so well it looked like in your diagram that it's just the Center Post that's going to have the foundation that the foundation's not going to be this six foot circumference or Circle no it isn't it's just in the center of it yeah so I mean the septic tank the only exposed part of septic tanks going to be the um access ports correct you don't have the whole top of the septic system showing uh right but obviously we have to yeah so just just a suggestion to see if it can be mounted we can look at it where we have the possibility of moving it out or close to the 50 Foot no build we can look at it we can look at that yeah I personally I I don't get overly attached to trees in the short term you know because I believe it's either two or three like kind trees that would have to replace that 12 in if it was removed uh you know we are looking at the long-term viability of the tree if it does have problems five years down the road six years down the road it may be easier just to take it out now and get the proper amount of trees replaced in that area of Maple and do you have any differentials between the square footage of the concrete walkway coming out and what you're proposing with the the bend and the curves going in I knew you were gonna ask that I do we do not have that summarized okay the intent is it the intent is it for for it to be essentially the same but just re re you know just sort of Meandering a little bit instead of straight okay and I have no problem taking out the conrete walkway and replacing it with any any form of pervious paav if you're keeping the um the the square footage the same you know taking out concrete and putting in as tight of a seamed p as you can we're not getting any more impervious surface if you're keeping with the same footprint yeah if you are trying to go for a larger footprint then I do agree with Bob we'd need to see uh what kind of materials you're putting down and what the um the percentage of seam that perious seam that we're adding is going to be but if you're just going one for one square foot I'm fine with whatever type of P you put back in there and it looked like you had a uh the erosion protection going around correct yes okay yep so as long as you have the erosion protection you'll need equipment to get in there I'm not exactly sure you must be going in on the neighbor's property to get in there to tear that concrete out uh I'm not exactly sure about that yet but yeah all right well as long as you're got very they got very creative with the septic system yeah okay yeah just as long as you're coming in on some area that's already Disturbed that's fine if you're trying to come in on the waterfront or any other access Point you'd have to file or let us know how you're getting the equipment in and the uh material out understood thank you thank you madam chair Thank you Rich um do we have other have other questions or comments from members of commission I think Chris has a question Madam chair uh yeah he's not maybe he's a butter yeah I thought that was uh commissioner Chris Chris sorry yes yeah no uh no worries um and it's always helpful to have some extra eyes looking at uh looking at things because there's a lot to manage and juggle when you're the chair uh okay if we don't have questions or comments from uh members of the commission I will uh now open open to uh members of the public and uh as a uh reminder uh please state your name and your address uh for the uh Pur of the record and I will call on Chris and Alan Colberg hi um hi I'm Chris Colberg 380 Sunset Lane uh a butter to this property I just want to say our our property um our elevation is a little higher and we have a a what I would call a bird's eyee view of the backyard we've been watching that 12in Maple die for the last 5 years since we moved here and in the mid middle of summer um it only has about half of the branches um that have contain vegetation it's in really sad shape I just wanted to to say that I would be in favor of them um their proposal to replace it with something healthy thank you um yeah I appreciate uh hearing that uh so thank you for that do we have any other uh members of the public questions or comments okay uh so it's it seems like uh what we're looking for uh maybe is uh a request to continue uh because it looks like we're looking for some additional data here uh square footage of of existing and posed on the uh on the p/c concrete former concrete uh area um and I think uh I think also I'd like to do a straw poll of the Commissioners for uh where's my list uh for the uh consideration of the uh 12in Maple 2 so that uh you know if we do continue this when we come back um it's uh everybody's clear on expectations so Bob where do you stand on the 12in maple that's within the 30 foot um when I look on near map uh when I look on near map um uh near map in my opinion reinforces the observations of uh the abiding neighbor um you see a lot of branches you don't see a lot of vegetation on the branches um and uh you know and which is why I said uh you know when I commented about it you know to me if if the homeowner wants to take it down and is willing to replace it you know as per the uh um you know the uh our regulation I have no trouble with it but I think you know we need you know to know uh you know what kind of trees and where they're going to go um so that's where I stand on that okay thank you Bob rich stand on it I'm sorry madam chair can you say that one you ask a question again uh yeah where do you stand on the u tree that's within the 30 uh foot again I'm I don't get attached to trees if the tree is looking like it's in Decline I mean we're only talking a matter of a few years and I would rather see them replace them I did happen to look it up uh for a 12in tree it is uh two trees they have to replace it with so I I would I would be fine with uh removing it and putting two trees back in its place of the same I imagine it's a red maple I think so yeah yep yeah definitely not a Norway maple because those are invasive so but I I would have no problem with taking it out and replacing two red Maples in that General vicinity Acer rubm thank you thank you uh Mike where do you stand on the tree thank you you madam chair um uh given my one visit to the tree um I did not have the um the advantage of the neighbor who has seen it in bloom so I'm okay with letting it go given that there will be now two trees perhaps in that area but I would like to see um what the plan might be for the oak that's being removed you know there's not a lot of space there but uh how many um how many additional trees are we asking for by removing the oak tree uh as per our um as per the plan uh sounds like to Rich just looked it up for us for the for the maple not the oak for the maple what about the oak I don't think that oh yeah okay so the oak yeah I don't think that I don't think that requires any because it's outside of the 30 okay um yeah but You' get two for the maple you you the Maple's in the 30 so your regulations are clear that that requires a two to one on that size tree and that sounds great Craig thank you uh and I'm okay with the rest of the proposed about the deck closest to Sunset uh Lane and certainly um would like as my other colleagues have asked for a little bit more detail on the walkway and the uh the uh materials that are going to be um um proposed for the walkway uh but otherwise I think I'm okay thank you Mike all right um Chris St Germaine what are your thoughts yeah first I want to thank Chris Colberg for um providing that information that helps us make a more informed decision so um before her statement I was leaning towards uh saving that tree but nobody wants to see a tree that's struggling like that so I I'm in favor of removing it and um I also in terms of the walkway I would just like to see um I know they mentioned that they're going to be spaced but yeah I'd like to get a little more detail on that but everything else I'm I'm good with okay thank you Chris Jenny so with the new information I would be okay with um removing the Maple and in favor of um the front porch and I would like to know what the papers would be on the walkway okay thank you did you have other comments I didn't mean to cut you off no I'm all set I'm just looking at the clock get later I get anxious um okay yeah and uh for myself uh I I'm okay with taking uh the maple down that's within the 30 foot um and replacing uh with two uh red maple or similar native trees but definitely want to know what um is proposed there and where they're proposed to go um I would like to see the uh uh existing square footage of the concrete pavers and the proposed new square footage and uh definitely if we're increasing that I would like to understand the uh percentage of uh peria seam um that that would be put in there um I you know don't don't like to see added structures in the uh in the 50 Foot um but I consider uh that uh stairway actually be a safety feature and it is a minor square footage U addition so I'm in favor of that and I'm I have no problem with the porch um up on the uh uh up adjacent to the road and uh I understand why the 24in uh Maple uh needs to be removed so that's where I stand um uh so uh Greg any questions about those comments nope loud and clear I have them written down and we'll be ready to go on those in two weeks okay so then um did I say something uh yeah who spoke I'm I'm sorry this is Matt um the there's there's one thing um on the porch and the stairs that you guys all agreed on is there any way that we could um have that approved because we have the workers at the house now and we're going in front of the zba for the porch in like a week so we're trying to be able to get that in play um I know the other stuff is going take a little bit longer with the pavers and all that stuff but if we get the stairs and the porch uh approval to go forward on that that help ah okay so um if there's a way to do it I don't know if there is or not well I think Matt if I could I don't want to be the bear of bad news but if you get good news from the zoning board next week it's going to you're going to have an appeal period with that process um so you're likely to get assuming we can get this done in in at the at the next meeting which it it appears based on the commission's comments that um we don't have a heavy lift here in front of us we just need to provide some additional information um so that they'd be in a position to vote um at the next meeting I I think you would actually still get this before approval before you would be emerged from Appeals from the zoning board of appeals okay that sounds great thank you Bob I would just suggest to Matt that uh when he goes to the zba uh that he mentioned uh that you know we took a straw poll of individual members tonight and uh uh that there wasn't uh well I don't know if it was I think at least four of the commissions I'm not sure it was all five you know said that they supported the spiral staircase so yeah let's ask um so I started out asking about the just the the doing the straw pole in the tree and the commission migrated towards which which was fine um giving me a full kind of uh rundown of uh the points of the proposal that they wanted to um uh you know were in favor of but uh Bob you and Rich went first and so you just commented on the tree as I had originally asked um so Bob where are you uh with regard to point of the in favor of the spiral staircase okay okay and um Rich uh I would like to hear why they can't move it to the 50 Foot uh boundary line okay so and if if they can't they you might not be in favor of it yeah I'd have I I would like the answer first before I give a an opinion okay fair enough yeah and the rest of the um the rest of the uh project proposal yeah because um yeah the rest of it I was fine with know okay removing and replacing the tree as per the bylaw or the regulations yeah if the foot if the square footage of the solid concrete walkway is going to be the same when they replace it with pavers I'm fine with whatever materials they put in there if they want expand it then we'd have to then I'd have to see more detail on materials they're using uh the 24 inch tree coming out I'm fine with and the uh expansion of the the deck on the street side of the house I was fine with okay okay cool thank you and and I guess I never asked this question is there a town mandated reason that they're putting in the spiral staircase or it's just for personal access it's it's not a fire requirement or a building requirement it's there's no requirement for that staircase to be there question I don't know the answer to that Matt do you know the answer to no that that was for personal reasons okay justess nobody pointed out that it was I just uh I just wanted to clarify that it was personal and it wasn't a mandated uh yeah fair enough installation being a safety engineer in my day job I'm just always thinking about that stuff thank you very much Madam chair Thank you Rich okay so uh and Greg you said you guys would be ready uh five for the 51 meeting absolutely H well no I I would hope we could do it at the next a at the April meeting oh that's right yeah we got another speeding through April yeah yeah I think we could be ready for the would it be the 20th yeah I was just looking um no no I'm sorry I'm still in March uh 18th 18 yeah 18th uh 17th is what's at the bottom of the agenda 17th 17th 17th okay yeah so we're looking for a continuance to the 17th of uh April do I have a motion by members of the commission so moved thank you Chris second Mike thank you Mike okay uh roll call vote uh Bob peas hi Jenny puer hi Rich bur hi Michael Lou hi Chris St Germaine hi and I for myself uh so see you again April 17th okay thanks a lot everybody appreciate it thank you you okay moving along uh um to continued public hearings uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town lunberg protection um Wetlands protection Municipal bylaws a public hearing on an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation by Kevin O'Brien at 390 Howard Street uh do we have uh Kevin or uh his representative here on the call tonight and were uh Sophie were we expecting them to be back um tonight um they never requested a continuance um I haven't heard from them in a while I tried reaching out about um that specific project and there was no response from Matt or Kevin O'Brien okay well not showing up as uh uh Bob you have your hand raised I'm just curious uh uh did we receive a check for the uh third party consultant can we discuss that I'm asking a question did you receive check for the third party consultant yes you did all right so they and so I mean I just assume when they don't show that uh they're they're looking for a continuance because they're still you know now they got to go through their whole third- party consultant thing you know and until they complete that they won't be back so I'm assuming if they don't show you know we're continuing that would be my my assumption but we all know about assumptions well that's actually what's in the bylaws I was uh you know having trouble sleeping this weekend so I was reading them uh and uh it actually says uh not showing up is uh is taken as a uh request for continuance so member of the public with their hand raised I yeah I see that um uh Rick Perkins yes hi uh I'm Rick Rick Perkins at 520 Howard Street uh which is below the development and uh I was wondering what we could do about the uh retention pawns up on the O'Brien development that aren't retaining retaining any water um whenever we get a storm of 2 in or more uh I end up with a Sol full of water uh um and right now I have silt fence up across my yard uh to divert the water away from it comes right down at the corner of the house uh there's been some areas in the back uh Woods of my property that uh have he's been flowing down in for years um but I didn't know if there was anything we could do to get him to actually have a retention Pawn that retains water um so uh we haven't we've we've opened the hearing but without the applicant here can we actually uh discuss uh the project Bob I don't think so yeah I didn't think so either um but but I I just would remark that there are no detention ponds and storm water is not in the uh jurisdiction of the commission and I think we should stick to uh discussing the continuance okay who is that under there's a stormw waterer task force well there is a storm waterer task force okay um and uh Jenny How would how would we go about uh how would he go about contacting the storm water task force so storm water meets um the third Thursday of the month and members of the public are welcome to come to that you can also if you're having issues with storm water reach out to Bill Bernard at the DPW okay yeah it's coming across private property though so I don't know how much he could also reach out to the uh uh zoning official uh who enforces uh storm water rules okay thank you I appreciate the information um okay so I know I I looked up where you're located so you're you're definitely down Howard Street down gradient from 390 um and we have had some uh people farther down from you complaining about siltation in the uh uh Creeks that flow down off of that property and had not had permission to go on your property to determine if there was silt in the uh intermittent stream that flows across your property I'm assuming it does there is a uh Creek uh that flows uh across your property yeah it's uh yeah occasionally when it's uh unless it's dry um but the water that uh where they're seeing in the silt from and I have it on my property as well is coming down from the O'Brien development uh where he cut the roads in he kind of put in some temporary Stone retention uh that actually at one point was retaining the water somewhat but now it doesn't do anything um so out in the backwoods that's where I have there's a silt Pro problem and that flows every time it rains uh the one that I'm really concerned about coming at the house that's when we have these big storms that um and you never know when that switch gets turned on oh snap check it out yeah so the um the jurisdiction of the uh of the Conservation Commission is is not the storm water but siltation in uh in Wetlands is uh so uh would could you reach out to uh Sophie Doro uh via email um and um Sophie can you get us permission from Rick to uh come and uh onto his property and look at any intermittent streams or Wetlands that are on his property yes I can do that I'm pretty sure we were already in somewhat correspondence so okay it's not an issue okay okay thank you um and and Rick I I assume that that might be okay with you uh if we walked on your property see if there was um siltation flowing down gradient from um adjacent uphill properties uh yeah okay okay uh thank you um so with that I think I'm looking for a motion to uh continue this hearing to April 17th so moved Rich second okay thank you uh rich and uh Chris okay roll call vote on the motion to continue uh Bob peas all right Jenny puer I wasn't here for the beginning of these ones so I don't oh yeah okay thank you um Rich bur hi Mike larouche hi Chris St Germaine hi and I for myself okay that's the continuation on that one moving on to the next one pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunenberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing on a notice of intent by stepan mcweeney for the construction of a single family home and Associated site work at 255 Sunny Hill Road um do we have uh do we have Stephan mcweeny uh or his Representatives here on the call tonight yeah Brian maret here mcari engineering and stepan is also on the meeting okay uh do you want to catch us up on this project yes um so I was not in attendance at the S sidewalk but I believe at the end of February um the applicant did perform a site walk with commission members um in the S sidewalk um there was a quest question of uh the Wetland lines in a couple locations uh Mar and depinto a wetland scientist uh did go out and revise the flagging with uh members of the commission and they were in agreement with where they were located uh so our plan has been updated accordingly uh on that site walk revisions were described or discussed about Shifting the driveway um a little further uh to the north uh which was away from uh the patent property um so the driveway on our revised plan I'll go through all this in a minute after I share my plan um the driveway was shifted about 10 ft um plan was revised accordingly we added some a covert and a little Plunge pool to intercept the storm water runoff that has been observed coming from um the neighbors properties that are uphill of this uh so we were able to control that storm water with with a cul um we also shifted or Shrunk the size of the house on the north side to pull it a little bit further away from uh the buffer zone um so the entire house is out of the 50 foot no structure Zone um and then because of the revisions to the Wetland lines the driveway does require uh a wetland fill for Access so we've proposed replication on the plan um so Stephan I don't know if that's a accurate kind of synopsis of what was discussed uh if there's anything else please chime in um in the meantime if I can I can share the screen and go over the modifications on the plan uh no that summarizes it pretty well all right you can see here this is the the revised plan um the Wetland line previously you can see the line here with the a a Flags a series Flags um that line previously pulled back further to the north here um so it was discussed over here where the existing driveway to the patents uh The Edge Edge of driveway is right here our driveway was only a few feet off the lot line so we shifted about 10 feet further to the north um doing so uh does put the driveway within the Wetland uh but even in the location it was orig originally proposed we had a wetland fill and a wetland impact as well um up here on the south side of the property is a defined sell that comes down from all the neighbors here that swell was created and dug by these neighbors um last several years to control runoff that was coming off the hill uh and directly dumps it onto the property so we're just proposing a 2 3ft deep plunge pool here with a covert underneath the driveway to control that storm water runoff um we Shrunk the size of the house so we cut the house back on this side um this location here is also where the Wetland was revised um it used to pull back here as previously flagged uh there weren't any hydric soils encountered in here but the limit of um flood staging here in the Wetland area did come further up the hill so it was revised accordingly again Mar and depinto was on site members of the commission agreed with the Wetland line uh revised as shown here on the plan um so we added a detail um on this sheet here showing the area of wetland Phil so you can see here where the driveway was previously located it still would have encountered a fill here but Shifting the driveway um shifted the fill a little bit more to the North in total is about 1570 Square ft uh for replication we closing it here on the Northern edge of the property which is in proximity to where the wet lines were revised um we're replicating it 1: one and we're also adding uh 41 um shrubs combination of high Bush blueberry gray Dogwood and Elderberry and these shrubs were all selected and agreed on upon with um our landscape architect and Wetland consulted these are the other details that were added to the plan since we're adding the cul under the driveway and we added a scour pad on the bottom side of the the northern side of our driveway location right here just to help with um settling the runoff uh before it flows down the wells and that pretty much sums up all the revisions uh we maintain pretty much the same um same slope coming off the road uh I did raise the house another couple of feet in order to accommodate a cul under the driveway here um but the way the house sits on the slope uh we were easily easily able to tie the grades out here in the front yard so that as I said basically sums up the modifications to the plan uh these changes were all discussed in the field with the applicant and the commission members were part of the site walk uh so this should accurately reflect everything that was discussed on that site walk at the end of February so if there's any other questions you have i''d be happy to try to answer them um Bob I think you were the only commission member that was on that site walk could be at least if he's talking about the S sidewalk that I went on yes and I I actually was on my way to the gym so I didn't stay till a Bitter End while Maryanne was uh uh continuing to finishing ref flagging the uh um uh um I I thought our B uh and I'm sure Rich will correct me on this uh says that replication is two to one not not one to one um and I know we discussed that the house box as Stak in the field was bigger than the thing in that there in that when the wetlands was redone that the house might you know have to either move or Shrink but I don't know that we actually reached an agreement in the field that day uh but um uh those are the only comments I have you know it's it's I I I think the wetlands is shown on the plan now are are are are accurate so so uh my personal what was that I said we did we did shrink the footprint of the house okay how much did you shrink it by um I believe it was approximately maybe 10 feet it's right here on this side of the house we shun pulled this Edge back we kept the kept the garage the same size uh and just shrink the box of the colonial okay so uh the long side was shorten by 10 ft y did um Bob when you were out there did Mar and depento uh actually say why it had been flagged incorrectly before um no she didn't um okay it was not and did um while you guys were out there did you talk about like how she had defined the uh the edge of the uh Riverfront uh because when I was out there it seemed like the uh River current actually came up to the um adjacent to the land which means the way it's drawn on this um on this drawing uh seems questionable but I don't know if you had an opportunity to get into that no we didn't discuss that at all um uh more I I pushed back hard on where she had delineated the wetlands um you know pointing out uh where uh you know the soils appeared to me to be a hydric and um you know uh saying as far as I was concerned there's some places where I would be insisting as one member of the commission on a soil for you know and then pointing out you know plant species uh that I thought indicated was wetlands and and you know after a brief discussion and then we found so that was down in the area of the driveway um and then in the back I mean it was clear that it was uh in the wrong place in the back uh corner you know on the side of the house where they uh Shrunk the house some that that that was uh um I I don't know what was going on the day she flagged those Wetlands because it was clearly clearly clear that there were blue flags right out in the middle of the wetlands that's what it looked like to me the day I went out there as well um that's because there was there was just water there were no Wetland indicated plants down lower so that's the reason why they weren't all all indicators weren't up to the extent the only reason they were moved up to where they were was because it it was up to a floodline which wasn't where it was when she had flagged it originally yeah the day um I went out there which was right after the uh right after before the first hearing um and maybe both because I've been out there like three or four times uh yeah the flags looked like they were going through Wetlands not at the perimeter of wetlands um and then I did have the concern about the uh about the how the riverfront had been uh delineated or designated uh Chris you have your hand raised yeah are there any um comments on the D I don't know well somebody look that up for us see if I can try to pull it up quick so D our initial comments with them it was all storm water related um about um about the subdivision of the property so after we discussed basically how the subdivision was done kind of previously by a different applicant different owner years past we subdivided into five Lots um or four buildable Lots we claim that the um that the wetlands or the uh DP stol mod manager standards only applied to the max then practicable um they not understanding the kind of history of the lot and how it was subdivided uh took a hard stance that that wasn't the case so not until we got actually them on the phone shared plans with them and explained to theep the situation they finally um understood where we were and agreed that this plan including the subdivision of the land up on Sunny Hill um didn't um did meet the standards only to the maximum the Practical so and they had no other comments no that's what I'm trying to find I'm going to look I'm going to pull up their comments so you can actually see them so I'm not mistakenly speaking Rich has his hand up and Jenny have their hand up and Sophie oh okay well he's looking for that thank you Bob uh rich thank you madam chair uh given that member multiple members have concerns of the delineation of this site and we no longer have an agent that is able to confirm the delineation uh I would request that this be put out for a third-party consultant to review the Wetland delineation and the riverfront delineation prior to moving uh forward with this project yeah that's a good suggestion thanks Rich any other comments and just one other quick thing Bob was correct it is a two to one replication for um all right Crossing okay thank you br and and um Brian did you include a narrative as to all of the um history on this lot since 1978 with all the subdivisions and all of the um buffer zone intrusions that have taken place over the years no no I mean we we don't we don't have I mean I really don't have any of the history Beyond um basically when the applicant purchased this property I believe it was subdivided once before with the three or four Lots up on right here Beyond um the patent property okay yeah because um technically any development since um the bylaw went in place we should be taking into consideration the overall um impacts in the buffer zone and the Wetland system that was uh in existence I believe it was in 1978 moving forward so I know there's been quite a bit of development in lot uh carve outs on this individual piece of property over the years so I'd also request at least a quick narrative on where we started and how many Lots were taken off how many um houses were put in in uh any of the buffer zone because I know there were a few in here that had uh filings prior also yeah the I mean the problem with that is how far do you go 19 because every single piece of property has been subdivided at some point in time yeah yeah it it goes back to the implementation of the lunenberg wetlands protection bylaw so those are my two suggestions Madam chair thank you rich um I'll call on Jenny so I just had the the noi pulled up with the technical comments and they do say that the the last thing it says is the commission may want to consider a third party for complex sites um I can share my screen if you want to see all of the comments because it's yeah that'd be great thank you Jenny well actually Bri have to stop sharing the screen and she's going to share her his hers there you go can you see it yes so this is it right here let me know if you need me to scroll there's not much below it no I think uh I think that's all of it isn't it yeah I mean just the riverfront area alteration that's the whole thing okay thank you for you guys use do you guys use anybody in particular for a third party um in the uh in the past we have uh provided the applicants uh a list of like three uh potentials um we should be able to get that uh list of uh three potential uh third parties over over to Brian shouldn't we Bob I think you were more involved in the last one that we did let me see if I can find that email okay let's see there was Brian Butler at Oxo art Allen at Ecotech Scott Goddard at Gard Consulting LEC environmental consultants in Wakefield and Stacy Min Beals and Thomas Southboro place I I I could send this to uh that's fine we we I I've worked with art Island Gard LEC we've we know all these Consultants so if they're if they're um if you're okay with all of them I can give a couple of them a call and see how soon I can get one of them out there now do you want to I think um they uh need to issue quotes um and then uh and then you'll pay us we'll put that in escrow and uh pay them this is like a Graves review Brian it's it's they're not going to work for you they're going to work for us no understood but I was just gonna I can call them and give them the information and do you want them to are you going to solicit a quote from them or do you want me to have them send you a quote that's a great question how do we how are we supposed to do it that's all I meant by I know them so I try to yeah yeah yeah help the process along here so so uh Richard Bob uh what's the right process here yeah technically we're supposed to be soliciting Okay the third party okay so then uh we should contact them Sophie should contact them and request the quote then we send the quotes over to Brian for review so Brian do you have a do you have a preference who who Sophie reaches out to First you want three quotes yeah I mean I it I mean it's up to you guys whoever you want to use but like I said art Allen with echotech we you know we know them well Gard is close and LEC has an office close too and uh Oxo as well Oxo is close so you know any one of them should be fine you know I'm just saying geographically located probably Oxbow and um art Allen at Ecotech probably the closest to okay sounds like uh we have next steps with regard to that uh do we have other questions or comments from uh Commissioners so I I do have a question uh it's the first project that I've I've sat on that had uh had Wetland Phil uh happening uh so a limited project uh seems Seems like in that Wetland area and the adjacent buffer zone there are a number of trees so in the replication I would assume we need to have uh replication of all those trees and uh and shrubs uh is that a fair assumption rich or Bob well the um the plant pallet should be consistent with whatever is in the vicinity in that Wetland system they shouldn't be introducing plants that aren't found in that system okay and then and then for the fill uh and driveway that's happening in the 30 foot um buffer zone where we uh have to take out trees uh does the same 2: one um Town bylaw uh replacement apply well 2 to one or one: one depending on the size of the the Tre yeah they would they would have to follow the replication schedule for any trees that are removed within the 30 foot no disturbance zone for for certain okay and is that already detailed on your plan Brian it is not okay okay I don't uh I don't have other uh I don't have other questions myself then um so does does do we we were previously asked to stake out the center line of the driveway um I had emailed uh Sophie and asked if they wanted me to stake this revised one out I didn't get a reply last week are we going to do you want us to to restate this are we having another s sidewalk what's what's the process from here to try to get this closed out do you need to go back to the site I I think I understand the things you've asked for tonight but beyond beyond yeah well definitely I definitely will want to go back to the site after the third party has been out there and you know uh given their uh review of the flagging so I mean that that's just speaking for me I I don't I don't know about others but I would definitely want to go back out I haven't been back out had the opportunity to go back out uh since uh uh your Wetland scientist changed the flagging um that happened in the middle of the week and I'm don't have a lot of flexibility in the middle of the week M CH uh yes yeah I I would recommend Brian to uh stake out the center line of the driveway and the corners of the house and as much detail as he can so that uh when our engineer gets out there or consultant they can verify as much data that's in the application as possible so that would be my recommendation I'm sure they would want to see yeah I'm sure they want to verify the the wetlands uh the replication area the driveway make sure that it's marked on site as it is in the plan the corners of the house and that's going to be the quickest way so now know they're just making one trip out they can verify everything and we can go out and verify it as well and as long as there's no changes required in the Wetland delineation we should be good to go Thank you Rich okay since uh I'm not seeing other uh comments or questions from members of the uh commission I'll now ask for members of the public if there are any uh questions or comments and uh I would remind um folks to state your name your address uh when I call on you uh Ken Patton uh thank you madam chair do you hear me okay I do yes okay um I uh well first of all Brian I appreciate you guys moving that um that driveway over uh Bill mcweeney and uh Justin had talked to me and indicated they would probably do that but uh you know I I appreciate uh that that they actually took that action um I um I would like to to just talk more about the delineation of the Wetland because that's that that's what uh I've been kind of arguing as uh as the process has gone along and uh Madame chair I'd like to try the share screen to see if I can bring up yes uh please share there we go very good all right um so this right here is uh is off of Google Maps and um this is the area some of you are familiar with this um you know here's my driveway uh here's my house and uh here's the area and you can actually see the the water ponding here and how green it is right around here um and I I've pointed this out to everybody so uh I've showed it to Justin and Bill and uh uh m madame chair I've shown it to you um so everybody knows about it um my point is that uh you know I I've been arguing that that this area here should also be part of the wetlands and um it's it's this is right right about where the um the property line is property line is probably right right about here the surveyor has a stake in the ground right about here and if uh here's a photo from 2018 July July of 2018 and you can see all the cat nine tals this is that whole wet area right here um there's not nearly this many cat N Tails still there but um there are some here's a a photo of the same area and you you you can go out there and line this up with with these trees these trees are still here so this was December of 2018 also um so here's the old plan what I was just showing you is right about here so my argument would be that the wetlands should have should be extended like here here it comes along and should go from this point instead of to up here and back should go from here all the way up to here and then and then cut back so that was just the uh the point I wanted to make and if if if there's going to be a third party uh looking at this then okay that that's really good from my point of view um but I just wanted to point this stuff out to the uh to the members um also I I get this from the highway department and uh this is uh this shows lemonster Road and this is my house right here uh existing house 290 that's my address and uh this this was a this has got a this is when the sewer lines went in so this is quite a few years ago but there's a there's a Wetlands deliniation here and this shows a 30 foot no build Zone that actually comes right up onto my driveway so this is just another piece of information that I had had come across and uh Madam chair I had I had provided this to you so this this is nothing new for you um one other piece of information I want to present is when when Bill drum subdivided the property uh and he provided me this uh this plot land here's my house right here and this is just some information that um you know Rich bur was talking to Mark about or Brian about uh um subdivisions that had been done in the past well well this this shows what Bill drum did and uh Bill drum sold the property uh right here to uh Andre AO from ringe New Hampshire who who built the house next to me and Bill when he subdivided the property he had the access to this back land which is now owned by the mcweeny uh he had the access going along the uh south side of my property and then the west side of my property um but Andre AO wouldn't buy the land with that there so that's how we ended up with now the a now the access to this to this lot back here is is going to be through the wetlands so that's just a a a piece of information that if anybody wants this I would provide it um and uh so Ken would you provide that to Sophie yes our admin our administrator yes I can do that thank you just to um to give Brian a a view of what goes on this is this is that catch Basin over on the south side of my property and this is just showing a rainstorm and what happens is this catch Basin gets gets overpowered and the the water will just extend the water will just run right through the backyard and down onto uh lot five and so uh I just wanted to give Brian an idea just how much water there is back there this is uh I think this is the same rainstorm and you can just see kind of the Rapids coming through here from the other that that that property on the south side of my house so that's everything I have um and uh that's all I'll say well actually uh I have a question for Brian because [Music] um they're uh there there's a couple of um uh Brian I've got two drains over here and uh you know that catch Bas and drain that we were just looking at that flows right out here and um Bill mcweeny and Justin were looking at at that drain and also my Foundation drains one's a 6inch pipe and the foundation drains are a 4 in pipe and uh they agreed that those two drains would get daylighted and then go under under the driveway through a Culver but but I I don't think you had anything shown in in your updated design I did I not I have a note on the plan that says to extend the pipes to the other side of the driveway okay so it they wouldn't get daylighted and that's so that no we'd like we we'd like to keep them buried and extend them to the other side of the driveway okay um in the pipes and putting a Road between them is just causing an impoundment and giving it an opportunity to Stage up and flood over the road cause erosion so it just makes a lot more sense to just extend the pipes further underneath our proposed driveway yeah what what I was uh hoping is that and I've talked to my landscaper about this uh and he's recommending that those those pipes be lighted uh and so my driveway if if this is correct is at uh 473 and actually here's the north end of my house is is at 473 and the um top of the driveway here is at 470 which would give 3T elevation um so I guess I'm just saying that would be my preference that's my landscap as recommendation um you're more of an expert than I am yeah it's it it doesn't make sense to me to Daylight them only to put another cul in to let them flow over our driveway if you pipe them directly there's no chance of erosion of eroding the driveway out uh it's flows coming from your property so part of the issue here with with our property is this your lot and the Lots above you those were all built storm water was coming down off the hill flowed out to the street these houses have collected the storm water they put drains in the yards and they've you know kind of to be blunt they've illegally piped this off to another property off site to get it out of your yards all that trench behind you up on the field that was built without any permitting without anyone's permission and dumps it directly onto somebody else's property so you've essentially taken storm water that was a nuisance to your lots and all the lots of your neighbors you've trenched it and dumped it directly onto Ed mcsweeney's property so we're doing everything we can here to collect it and control it including extending your pipes which come from your foundation drains from your yard drains in your yard and pipe them under our driveway so they don't cause further problems on our property so we're doing everything we can to fix a problem that was created by you and your neighbors well I I think um oh sorry Ken um I didn't mean to cut you off okay uh well I appreciate that Brian thank you and I've I've appreciated uh the conversations that I've had with uh Bill mcweeney and Justin um now I've lived here for 40 years and there were no houses is uh up Sunny Hill Road those there were those four houses were not there all that water and all that water that I just showed you in that video all came onto my property none of it not a drop went to the street all of it came to my property gravity brought that down there and and gravity just kept bringing it onto the mcweeny property so I mean that that's how it is and and that um area with the cat nine tails that's been there for 40 years because when I came here in 1984 that that water was bubbling out of the ground there and it's just been bubbling out of the ground for for the last 40 years that's why I think that's part of the wetlands so uh I really don't have any anything else to say um thank you Ken okay yeah and if you would um send those um those uh documents and photos to Sophie I would appreciate it okay uh thank you and uh I think Stephan mcweeney had his hand up um did your comments get addressed or did you just uh uh no Brian addressed them just just fine okay thank you thank you uh and I am not seeing any other uh members of the public with their hands raised um so I think I'm looking for a uh am I I think I'm looking for a uh a a continuation motion so that we can get the third party uh consultant Rich Bob do we need to vote on the third party consultant we have nothing to vote on yet okay in my opinion yeah we just need to continue until we get the third party consultant in and we actually have something to uh to vote on right yeah it's to to me it's like we need we need to provide uh Brian with a quote we need to provide the consultant you know with a scope of work and then we need to provide um uh you know uh Brian and his client with uh you know uh one or more quotes and Brian needs to say yeah I'm willing to fund that and we got a vote to approve it and they gotta deposit a check and then the consultant got in so it's it's a process yep fair enough so then I'm looking for a motion to continue uh oh hang on Chris has a question or comment yeah I think Brian I think uh Ken you're still sharing I believe so I just want to let you know that you're yeah thank you very much I'm trying to figure out how to how to if you go to security you can just take and uh deny ability to share in the security settings and it'll stop them yeah I'm doing that right now oh ken figured it out before I got there okay h all right so I'm looking for a motion to continue uh do we think we uh need to continue to the 17th or May 1 how quickly uh do we usually get those um quotes turned around that's up to Sophie um by the rate of how things are going right now I would definitely push it to uh May 1 May first yeah um and that's acceptable to the applicant um I mean Stephan I I don't know if you have an opinion if um you know if we can get an email out right away to the Consultants you know depending on how long it takes them to schedule a site visit if we can just continue to the next hearing and then you know if it gets done great if not we'll continue it again I'd rather do that just to try to get it this address sooner than later I 100% agree we would very much like to push this along we're happy to assist in any way possible to get those quotes schedule the work and and get that done as quickly as we can okay 417 I think I'm uh looking for a uh motion to continue to 417 by member member of the commission so moved second Mike okay so that's Chris and uh and Mike thank you I go for a roll call vote Bob hi Jenny I can't vote on this one ah you can't that's right uh rich I Mike I Chris I and I for myself okay we're gonna try to get things turned around for 417 thank you thank you moving along uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 13 31 section 40 is amended in the town of lunenberg wetland protection and Municipal bylaws public hearing on a request for determination by Marilyn Y yanika for the removal of trees at 34 Hemlock Terrace I do we have uh marynn uh here tonight yep I'm here did you hear me yeah I can hear you just fine uh and I admire your stamina for sticking with us for so long I I know it's a uh I know it's an endurance sport um uh so I if I recall correctly you had several trees um but uh we needed to get Sophie out there to do a site visit for us yeah and and so Sophie do you have uh that uh s sidewalk uh data for us yes um I had sent a summary um of an average of the number of trees in proximity to the edge of the lake um I I can't recall if I showed images um at the first round no I think the first time you hadn't even had a chance to get out there yet okay um okay I can pull those up if you want me to um yes that would be great sorry I'm looking to the albums and I'm not seeing it yeah and I I actually don't see a folder for those um Google or SharePoint um I might have taken photos and just hadn't organized them what do you have um I do have the um measurements okay um why don't you share those with us I assume you have them written down somewhere you can share what you uh yeah um there were seven trees within the 30 foot buffer zone and one in the 50 Foot now the the one in the 50 sorry is that is that um like hand handwritten notes or you actually have something that you can share with us um I wrote it down so that I had a quick answer but I can find my typed notes there it was just an email sent um with with the whole summary Okay so just read it to us okay I have to pull up the email that I sent working on that okay um so I stated on my site visit I took accurate measurements from the high water mark of the lake to each tree proposed to be taken down removed as correlated with the original proposed plan the addition of with the addition of possibly one more tree um which was also measured uh that last tree was identified as a red oak um and I can I can also screen share the uh the plan that she submitted as well yeah that'd be great so as uh described before this this is a list of um of the trees uh plus the additional number eight which is the oak M so um and then I wrote down here the the tree number and the distance and then number e is the additional oh okay okay so we have uh one two three four five six seven within the 30 foot and one outside the 50 yeah 7 less than uh 30 and uh one outside the 50 and zero in the 30 to 50 okay um so I think I I understand okay and then uh let's see there are I'm trying to look uh the diagram like how many are up against actually up against the house um so five is super super close to the porch um and six and seven are both actually a lot closer than they look [Music] um compared to in person um one is okay really close and two is literally in the porch is built around that tree okay okay it's it's kind of yeah just part of the structure and did you say that seven was actually closer than it looks in the diagram yeah it's it's closer okay I mean not that it's inaccurate I'm not saying the map is inaccurate at all I'm just from here it appears kind of far away but it's actually relatively close and three yeah three three on the corner is probably yeah the other one okay um all right and we don't uh we don't right now have like a proposal for um replacing any of those trees no okay okay so um I'll let uh members of the commission ask any questions that they want to uh Mike um it looks like the insurance company is asking the applicant to remove Seven Trees I if I recall correctly that was a previous insurance company the um oh that's right okay yeah and I'll let the applicant confirm confirm whether she has a current request from an insurance company or if that was a previous insurance company that was a previous insurance company okay okay so how is your current uh Madam chair can we ask the applicant yes for current uh Insurance have they have any issues regarding trees they they requested that there not be any overhanging the house okay and how many of those are overhanging your house now um five six believe it or not eight does a little bit too because it it spreads at the top so those branches would come down on the house um you're think tree number five tree number six and tree number well I think they would mostly be unhappy with tree number five tree number six and certainly one the ones touching the house and seven eight is a very very tall tree and the branch do hang over the house but it's could those branches on number eight be trimmed so they're not over the house is that possible yes they could okay so are we looking to um have fewer trees removed or fewer branches uh trimmed if it were left to me I wouldn't remove any of them I love it that my house doesn't show from the water but uh I think that those overhanging the house and certainly the ones that are actually growing around the house at this point should come down meaning three and one and two I would support that but I'm only one person so um yeah I I I just me as one person also would support uh definitely taking everything out that's you know in proximity of the you know like really close to the house um so to me the only thing that's questionable in that list is for four seven and 8 um four seven and 8 yeah um but uh with that too I would want to see replication um for our bylaw on the house the trees within the 30 foot and and that seems to be all of them so I would want to see some type of um replication um schedule location and you know species that's what I I would want to see um me as one individual I don't really know anything about that um I I wouldn't want to plant a tree that was going to then grow up and hang over my house again but um and I have uh Alder all along the shoreline Alder and blueberry that gets periodically chewed by the beaver but then comes back so it's holding the shoreline um which is important to me the house has been there since 1951 uh I've I've been here since 1951 so and the and the uh the water is higher than when I was a kid it's a lot higher than when when I was a kid so it's just eating away at the shoreline uh so do we have um I think I think I'm just gonna go around and pull everybody Rich I'll start with you uh what are your thoughts about the tree removal and or replication or replacement yeah I'm still looking at it Madam chair please come okay I can Circle back to you um Bob um when I look at the aerial photographs on your map at a slot um it's pretty heavily treed uh when I look at the picture of the house uh on um the Assessor's website um you can see that there's these huge trees hanging over the house um I'm not sure replication makes sense uh on such a heavily treed lot that's uh so um I think she should be able to cut down the trees that are hanging over the house um I I think we give to me trees are just big plants and I think we give people way too hard of time about trees those are my thoughts do we have a sense of how many um trees are going to remain after we cut down these trees Sophie um I'm assuming you're you're wondering how many on are on her property well or yeah how many would be left after we cut these I have no idea okay I know okay Chris uh Chris you had your hand up yeah I'm glad um I'm glad Bob said what he said because I I think we do have to um put a little um intelligence into it um replicating trees uh in a heavily wooded lot might not make sense so I would like to see what's there already and I mean that two for one thing might just cause cause the homeowner additional issues down the road so I would I would not be uh I don't want to do this blindly about replacing trees I mean if it's already a heavily wooded lot we might want to just put some intelligence into this and uh and and see what's see what's going on there yep fair enough uh Jenny so I'm I'm looking at the um the Google Map street view of this house and it is very heavily treed even if she were to take down these trees unless she put trees back in the same exact spot I don't know where she would put more trees so I would be in favor of um you know letting her take down the trees and maybe see if there's anything else that could go in but it's a very treed lot okay Jenny thank you Mike have I called on you yet um I think I me I spoke about it initially but uh I'm all for having whatever trees that are overhanging her house to remove them and if it's so heavily treed that I'm not Beyond just allowing it to be half trees uh removed and that number eight tree with the branch um overhanging her house removed uh but I want to stay with the applicant if she doesn't want to remove trees uh especially under the conditions of this new insurance company who's not demanding trees to be removed I think it should be left up to the applicant what trees she wants to remove or which one she wants to trim and I'm okay with that okay Rich Circle back to you yep yeah I mean everybody's made pretty good points most of these trees are within six to 10 feet of the house so I mean they certainly pose a risk uh I think the the regulation was put in place to make sure that there is a canopy continuing in an area that there was a canopy especially along the shoreline you know because it is providing shade for the for the wildlife habitat along the shoreline um I don't remember if we'd asked are we leaving the stumps in place to help prevent [Music] erosion or I don't think we've asked that question okay are the stumps going to get replaced ma'am or removed I'm sorry they don't need to I I agree about the erosion okay that's certainly my concern okay yeah at this point I'm in favor of allowing the trees to get removed and um we should just maybe Circle back once they've been removed to make sure that no other trees were damaged or removed by accident or necessity um and make a decision at that time if we do need to add up some supplemental trees to keep the canopy in place but at this point I'm in favor of allowing her to proceed with the tree she's marked okay very good um so uh I think I'm looking for a motion at this point so moved uh and uh Chris with that motion it's to allow the removal of all trees as uh as submitted by the applicant her remove trees uh of the eight at her discretion so there's one through eight she can move remove all or none but out of those eight trees it's her choice okay and then um and then leave this stumps in uh in place yes okay do I have a second Mike Mike yep okay as Chris described okay mad chair uh yes Rich yeah I would ask um if the um if we could to add to that motion that uh once the trees have been removed uh that she just contacts the office to let us know um what if most all trees have been removed and we can just get a quick look to make sure that the canopy has remained intact with the trees removed where we're not asking for our typical replacement schedule for the bylaw or the regulations and uh Rich so I'm clear if we approve it now and then come back later and ask for uh Replacements is that within our discretion to do when we gave her permission without uh I suppose we should we should continue to um add to the motion to ensure that no trees need to be added or replaced to keep the canopy in place again where we're just we're not asking up front for the typical replacement just to give us the opportunity to make sure that she's removed the that she said and uh that we don't find later that oh maybe we should be putting one or two back in there place um and uh Chris are you okay with that uh in your motion yes and Mike are you okay with that uh with your second yes I am okay roll call vote um Chris St Germain hi Mike larouche hi Rich bur hi Jenny hi Bob hi and I for myself okay thank you thanks for your stamina um and staying with us tonight Sophie um just for clarification so you're voting to approve this was a an RDA so is this a negative determination that is correct it is a negative determination okay thank you so will I get a letter or something to of these results yes okay um Sophie about how long does it take to turn around the letter generally um it could take maybe a week or two um I know that um issuing uh an order of conditions is 21 days um but I I don't believe that's the case with um a negative determination um perhaps one of the Commissioners has uh an actual number I don't have one off hand I thought it was a 10-day appeal period on a request for determination okay that sounds [Music] correct okay moving along um I think that uh concludes all of our uh hearing tonight so we'll move into don't you have 171 they continued oh okay don't we have to continue it uh we did first oh we did okay yeah I've started um you know because these things go so long I hate it when people have to wait until the very end and find out that they've been uh continued so I've started doing the request for continuations before I even start new public hearings did we vote on it I didn't remember that we voted on it yeah we did okay um yeah and it was unanimous uh with uh Rich uh abstaining because uh he was on mute oh I was checking on an alarm yep yeah exactly okay yep so um new business I I didn't have anything that came in uh within uh the 48 Hours um in the last 48 hours uh with uh old business um any update on title searches Bob um I forwarded the commission at the beginning of the meeting um an update from um uh Adam Costa on the title searches and um I it was contained in an email that I had sent to Heather Lemieux uh because two of the part properties that we want to do title searches on are over by flath Hill Road and it's not clear to me you know the the uh select board is trying to find a place to build a detention Pond or thinking about it or maybe or something like that and so I was trying to get some clarity before we you know invested more money and going after those properties and she hasn't responded yet um on the other title search um uh for the property that's in the middle of uh the cowry lot uh they found that uh the property that that the assessor displays is one lot is actually two lots and one of them is actually owned by the town already and the other one they need to do some additional probate uh work and so um I was going to ask for a vote to uh authorize uh Adam Costa's firm to do the additional probate work on the property uh that's in the middle of the cowry lot that's that one that shows up as uh or at least a portion of that one that shows up as go yes and um do you have an estimate on what that uh not a not a clue not a clue and I think I also copied the commission on a different letter to Heather because I asked on Adam Costa you know when are we going to see a bill and he saids I'm pretty sure you've already been built and I said well we haven't seen any bills and so uh I sent a letter a different email to Heather asking about you know if we got a bill we' like to see what it was and we'd like to be copied on the bill and U again I haven't received the response H okay I I understand uh the easier to vote on uh approving something if we actually knew whether we were on this can be tabled no urgency here yeah okay I I would like to table that one until we understand what the Run rate is on that stuff anybody have an opinion contrary to that okay everybody's worn out um uh office operations I I just wanted to update everybody on uh conversations that uh we've been having with the select board uh recall uh one or two meetings ago uh everybody authorized me and Bob to work with Sophie and the Heather and the select board to try to uh you know get some staffing um Solutions in place and uh we have been working on that and actually I think before I go there Sophie uh you were going to talk to the commission about um SharePoint moving forward versus Google Drive um yeah I just wanted to know if people are comfortable um with that moving over and starting to access all my um files that I add instead of using Google I'm in favor that I think it'd be a lot more efficient for you only have to populate stuff in one um place is anybody opposed to that or concerned about just moving over to SharePoint moving forward okay I'm not seeing anybody opposed um it's not a regulatory matter so I don't see a reason why we have to vote on it um and then what about photos uh Sophie do you have the ability of uh getting the photos over to SharePoint to or is that um I think you had mentioned to me that that is still uh G to have to stay on Google Drive for a while um I know in the beginning when we started this whole process um it helped me move over uh some of the photos or they were trying to but they didn't um it was so long ago um I've just been using the drive because it's convenient with the tablet that I have now for uploading um moving forward I I don't know um so it sounds like what you're saying is you don't have a solution for the photos yet that's something that you'll have to work out with Dan I believe so yeah okay okay fair enough um I see Jenny's raise your hand Jenny I was just going to say that there's a tool that they should be able to run in the background that can move everything over and skip things that aren't that are already there so it should be pretty easy to move things over when we're ready using that tool micr I think the yeah so I think the problem isn't um migrating the data um I think the problem is that uh when Sophie takes her tablet out to do the uh photos of the S sidewalks it automatically saves to uh the Google um photo location it doesn't automatically save to SharePoint and just the way you know the way everything's structured right now if she saves it to Google every extra step is a really painful step right just because we've in a backlog right um so I would opt for Sophie to keep using the tablet Let It Go to Google photo until such time Dan can repoint um the saves to SharePoint and then migrate all the photos over and then we just use SharePoint moving forward I mean that's that's what I would propose okay there is an opt to have your photos back up to Microsoft instead of to Google on your phone if you install Microsoft and I can talk to Sophie about that if she wants me to but okay yeah I I think it's' probably be a good idea for you to talk to Sophie about that um and it's on a tablet there's some other problems with a TBL is Android tablet or um or an iOS tablet Sophie it's a Samsung okay so that would be probably Android Android yeah yeah okay thanks um yeah we can talk about it later uh Chris you had a comment yeah I no I have to sign off um and unfortunately I'm recording but I can't see on any longer so I need to I need to bail okay thanks Chris all right thank you and somebody else pick up backup recording uh since Chris dropped just in case we have a problem with our primary recording and if we don't we're just going to take a fate into our own hands um yeah Sophie you already gave me an update on Zoom um Sophie has been working on migrating our workflows and our forms over to open go so future applications can be done online um Sophie uh when we last talked you were going to review that and bring us back a proposal of how long you thought it might take to uh affect that that transition um yeah originally I thought that it was going to take months um however with the help of Building Commissioner um and setting everything aside have been chugging along pretty quickly um to get at least one application basically ready to be um uh made live on open gov um which one is it probably uh the RDA okay um my goal is to I can foresee it um being made live probably Tuesday um possibly Monday mhm um because it's that it's that close it's just a matter of uh the person that's in charge of uploading things um and the assistant website design and whatnot has cut her hours so getting in touch with her and getting things moving is slower than it was before um so but that's that's where that's at um right now so it depends on the application um the RDA was the most pressing I feel like so I wanted to get that done and out of the way first the next one would be the Ani and I feel like that could take uh a little bit longer possibly what's your target maybe four weeks depending on when I finish the getting the RDA um up and running and these things can also be um changed and edited and um as needed okay yeah cool um so four weeks uh we're not going to say it's the 1 of May we'd say it's the 7th of May sort of kind of for a Target hopefully okay targets or targets they're meant to be revised um but uh it sets people's expectations uh does anybody have any questions for Sophie on open Gove okay moving along um so what um what uh Bob and Sophie and I you know uh also in partnership with Heather had come up with in terms of the operational action plan uh to try to streamline uh the work going through the office and then also uh try to um you know start getting ahead instead of you know continuing to to get behind is you know the first thing is adopt open go uh then uh the second thing is increase bandwidth uh resource bandwidth availability on clerical task and so what they're going what we're going to continue to do is uh continue uh Jane um doing the meeting minutes which is supplemental to what the you know the office had been budgeted for um and then the administrative assistant uh would uh come on board I understand that we had somebody confirmed last night at the select board um meeting uh so that person would come in at the 10 hours per week that is uh allocated um I've been talking to Heather to see if uh you know we might for the interim get that person to work a few extra hours a week to help us get caught up in the office Heather still looking at that um but was you know amable to it of course the resource has to agree and what not as well um so continuing to have Jane work would be supplemental um to the current uh office budgeting so that gets us a little bit uh extra in terms of uh administrative um support recall you know last year the administrative assistant would have been responsible for doing those meeting minutes um so so that's uh additional and then the other thing we were looking at is augmenting technical bandwidth and skill in the office to give uh Sophie some extra technical support and so uh in order to do that we need to actually uh pay for you know that um Consulting um Services right um so there's actually within the regulations an existing uh fee structure for Consulting and uh I think we need to start actually uh leveraging that more often um um and the way that uh the way that I meant to call it up and I I forgot to do it before we started the meeting tonight but the way that's set is uh for each project according to its uh overall project cost there is a maximum fee that we can charge for Consulting support and so like for the first tier it's $100,000 uh overall project cost the uh consult Max consulting fee is uh $500 and so that's already that's already there it's already in the bylaws we can start using that I understand Rich that we historically have not used that because you know years ago we had uh Matt uh and Matt could go in and do a lot of the wetlands work himself which was a benefit to the community but it's not the position that we're in right now um so Heather did look at that and uh one of the things that she noticed is that we don't have the revolving fund us to support those Consulting fees already set up and so she um proactively put a warrant on the next town meeting so we could get that revolving fund set up so we could start tapping into that uh consulting fee structure the thing that we will need to do um is uh is set up uh some conditions of when when we want to invoke that uh invoke that consulting fee so that's something that I think uh we need to take offline uh maybe have a couple of people look at and bring a proposal back to the commission that we can discuss and uh and vote on got I have a couple of people who would volunteer to undertake that take a look at it Madam chair I would appreciate that thank you Rich that would be awesome um the other thing the other thing that uh we I I think we should start looking at is consider raising the application fees to cover um additional um uh technical support in the office and uh my best guess is probably five hours a week of course you know that would go up or down depending on what the real demand is um I have taken a stab at looking at some surrounding communities uh to see where we are and our fee structure versus other and um you know we're we're really on the low end um so would the commission be amable to uh undertaking that as a uh under consideration to uh look at changing our fee structure would anybody be opposed to to that I'm I'm happy to continue doing the work and bring some proposals back to the group I just want to know if anybody has some uh big issues with it and I'm nobody seems to be in violent disagreement no it's been a while since we've looked at it so it's probably not a bad idea okay [Music] um yeah and I I I did look at um and I think it's in in the bylaws where it's actually charted out uh what it would take to change uh the fees and uh basically it looks like uh all we would have to do is um publish that we were going to undertake that um that regulatory change right do uh two do the legal ads uh for two hearings and then hold those two hearings um so that members of the public had the opportunity to come in and and uh and comment uh so we will look doing that uh Sophie and I have been uh so s's been talking to me about me and Bob about priorities we've been working with her on priorities um and then uh yeah the other thing that uh well I think I'm it's getting late I think I'm just gonna um kind of uh move things along web uh website changes Bob I have a meeting with car on Monday okay excellent um Earth days you you know April Earth days is going on I've been talking to you guys about that we have a couple of uh conservation um projects that are on that list been working with the uh Parks Commission um one of the things I did want to ask about uh the uh lunberg Ledger is always great and sponsors one ad for us um we try to do another ad um so that we get you know more participants signing up those ads are $85 um and uh I uh I have verbal agreement from Parks um to split the cost of an ad but they obviously have to go and get approval from their commission as well um so I'd like to ask for a vote to support uh for Budget support out of the Timber rights fund for 80 up to $85 if for some reason the parks vote can't pull off their half um so uh go moved thank you Bob second thank you Mike okay roll call vote Jenny hi Mike hi Rich hi Bob hi and I for myself thank you um yeah uh real quick the wetlands when do we have to have the wetlands brochure flyer that we were going to put in the June tax um Bill uh when do we have to have that done by um Bob do you remember no Co no clue yeah we had originally been thinking that we need to start having a firm plan by the end of March uh so maybe let's try to figure that out by the next um meeting I you know the thing that my action is is to figure out where to um where to post this thing on the uh on the website and get a QR code linked and I think you've got to talk to Cara and figure out you know what the page is going to look like but assuming that we've got um that's not it this would be it I'm thinking that if this stays you know we can change the content of it but as long as that address stays the same that we would have that QR code from that's on that brochure point back to here then people can look at all of the relative you know relevant regulations that's what my thought is uh it looks like I shared the wrong page yeah so yeah Inland Wetlands act I would think even though we're going to put the QR code in the brochure I would think we would want to point people back to um regulatory the regulatory section of the page but you know once you iron that out with uh Cara um if you know if you just tell me that this is going to stay the same address we can change the contents that are in the address right all I need is this to know I'm pointing to that um as the right the right thing okay everybody's dead um okay moving along I think maybe we should uh cut over to violations uh next because I think we still have a member uh at least one on who's waiting on a violation uh concern so Sophie why why don't you um why don't you take us through uh 10 massav um actually okay I'll give a brief I'll give a brief summary um so a little while ago I did a site visit at 10 massav um in uh response to a couple uh further um sorry I'm I'm tired I can't think clearly um so I visited the site and there um appeared to be uh further work that has been completed since um my last visit and the last time I brought this up at the meeting uh the work done was uh appeared excavation um replacement of a pipe that the town owns um in the back parking lot area um so the removal of soil um and the the pavement um in the process of that the pipe uh the water was well actually it wasn't in the process of that but prior to that there was water leaking from the pipe um and during the process of the construction uh the water coming out also contributed to a lot of sediment erosion um straight down slope on that small parcel into what appears to be a could be a h bordering uh land subject to flooding um and uh I believe it was Briana or the prior agent sent a letter Leah yeah I think it was Leah okay sent a letter um also addressing that uh Wetland area and so the sediment that I saw uh was bypassing the erosion controls silt fencing um over and under it uh into the where the pipe uh Outlet was uh which ultimately turns into a pretty naturalized stream into the main Brook and I I don't recall the name of the brook um but it's very large that runs under a bridge um behind that property uh so it's within just outside the 200 foot um Riverfront but with connecting Wetlands um so that's that's what I experienced on that uh visit and I'm sure um Mr Patel can elaborate on his side do we have an application uh for that uh for that project at all Yes uh good evening uh to everyone uh so can I share my screen with you guys uh yeah if you would um tell us your name and um the address of the property this is uh Smith Patel 10 Mass a lunenberg mass 01462 so I started uh first coming to uh town of Lunenburg in I'm going to share you guys my screen uh so first I filed the first I came in to see uh uh the Wetland person uh I believe it was Leah in 2023 September she was working with me she told me to file this and then after after that uh Ed transaction copy I have this one that I filed on 926 uh 2023 after that I was following up with Leah I have bunch of threads of email of following up with Leah she told me how to put up the F fencing and she at one given time uh Madam chair she stopped replying back to me and I think she blocked me also and I was not able to send any email or nothing so then I got hurt for six months because I have flat feet I fell down and I got hurt so I wasn't working on the site much uh and then uh when uh when uh I forgot her name I'm sorry when I was seeing uh what do you call Sophia and I talked to Sophia and I believe you I also saw you Madame chair at the yes I came by on one of the visits y yep yep on after that day uh I called the contractors to come and put up the S Fencing no one came no one came so and then I got I took it matters to my own hand and I fixed it on the day when I got served by the lunenberg PD the letter to stop the work and I fixed the F fencing right here also I did not uh what do you call uh encroach any vetland because I asked Leah last year and she told when she was at the site she told me that this is your Zone and at that time she verbally told me that this uh you can you can do anything 50 feet from the vetland and build so I didn't do any building or nothing I just like so what was happening there was a pipe running from the streets right the pipe was broken that there was a city pipe as uh Sophia said earlier the street pipe was running which was broken which was causing the parking lot to Buck hle and there was like sink holes developing everywhere in my parking lot randomly so yeah I fixed this town pipe because I didn't know how would I go about it and what uh who would I contact to fix the pipe but then Sophia told me that I can contact the lunenberg DPW to I should have showed them that but that's already fixed by a contractor so yeah uh I fixed everything how I'm supposed to do it and yeah I was just uh working our guidelines of Leah and then Sophia and then yeah I'm sorry I've never done this before so that's that's okay uh we have a lot of people who have uh not um you know it's their first time everybody has a first time um so then uh sop so this is how it looks it's done now this is how it it looks right now I'm looking at an ed transaction copy oh sorry uh and I I'm so I do want to ask Sophia if she has a copy of the RDA right here how it looks like uh Madam chair thank you um a copy of the D submission yeah it said RDA on it um which I was surprised I'll show you again uh sure I can put all sorry Sophia I I never found anything on you know in uh the conservation office okay so but this is like an ed filing so shouldn't we be able to go look that up in Ed yes and has uh Smith shared shared that with you do you have a copy of it uh so when Sophia first came to visit me uh I showed her quickly on my computer that this is what I filed and I walked her through everything what I'm telling you guys right now yeah but I can put up a good folder of all the things and share with sopia Sophie what information would you need in order to look that up in EDP I would think you could just look it up by the address right um it has yeah it has to be I've just gone to uh the town lunenberg and um if I can just use the noi uh well the transaction number or the address there's multiple ways to put in the portal but you've not found it yet it's the bottom line for what forever reason no I I do believe that I I did locate it um after he showed that to me but it's not a submission to us oh so that's the Gap so the submission Leah was oh sorry yeah let let let me just get clear with Sophie about um what's going on so Sophie continue oh there really wasn't what much after that okay Mr Smith or uh yes sorry for interrupting uh uh so I I had uh contacted Leah to submit that to her but then she never responded back to me and I spoke to her on the phone call and she she never resp responded back to me or nothing so then it showed the status on the paper that it submitted so I was in my head I was aware that it's submitted you know okay yeah that's fair so um and and Sophie uh have I think the most important thing regardless of how we got here is how do we get back on track right so um yes yeah you need to file with with the town yes so I'm going to work with sopia now uh and she's been really good help to guide me and Lead Me In right direction so yeah I'm going to work with Sophia and Mark sight engineer uh I believe he's from lunenberg too Mark uh uh I found his phone number so my plan is to go to Mark and uh make us a site plan Pro properly to do uh proper filings with town of Lunenburg okay okay um so since this is in a violation you know a lot of people have found themselves trying to do the right thing over the past uh year and because we didn't have office staff we had temporary people like Leah but you know we had Leah for like three weeks and then we didn't have Leah anymore uh because she got a permanent jobs someplace else we had Rihanna for a few weeks we had Bri for a few weeks so there have been these disconnects and certainly I understand that I think that's what happened yeah yeah but we do need to get back on track as soon as possible you're clear that you can't do any more work there until we get the paperwork file and you have permission yes yes yes okay and uh and you're also clear that that uh Sil fencing is your responsibility to ensure none of this um open Earth is now running into uh the Wetland and into that stream yeah not into neighbors property that you're clear on that too yes yes okay um yeah so uh are there questions or comments by other members of the board anything else that we should uh uh help uh Mr Patel um you know and helping that he's help him understand what he needs to do so he's clear I I would like to see the paperwork filed within 30 days um from now okay okay I'll have it done U next week uh that that would be excellent if you can do that sometimes once you get uh you know the engineers on site it may take a little bit longer than you expect um but certainly if you are within 30 days uh you'll be meeting my expectations so uh paperwork uh Madame chair uh is well for what I want to do the intent uh uh paperwork right well it's all the paperwork that we would need to uh give you permission to do what you want to do but if you've at least the paperwork that says hey here's what I want to do if we look at it and we're missing information we'll tell you that we want you to you know we'll just like like you've heard tonight we'll continue the hearing we'll tell you what else we need and then you'll come back another night and say hey now I think I've given you everything that you asked for okay yeah sounds good uh uh I will work with Sophie uh to do the um whatever I intend to do uh and file the according proper paperwork okay very good I'm not uh seeing any other qu questions or comments uh by members of the commission uh Smith do you have uh other questions uh nope that's all okay well as long as you're clear I think uh thank you for showing up tonight thank you for um staying with us for as long uh it's been a long haul but uh have a good rest of your evening thank you guys have a good night thank you okay I still have a number of uh a number of people still on uh tonight uh so I'm just going to ask so we can go ahead and handle whatever it is we need to handle for them uh Scott uh were you holding on waiting for a particular part of our agenda I'm looking for a certificate of compliance at 41 Country Road okay um and I I'm just going to go sample everybody so I have a full list um John uh what were you uh were you holding on for something particular John is still on mute so maybe John's not there I think that was this Brian maret I think that might have been John PKA from my office okay we're uh we're still holding on for two certificates compliance for 305 Arbor Street and then Northfield Road okay okay very good all right and I think that is everybody all right so uh we'll go with um well we'll go with the first one that's on the certificate of compliance uh 305 Arbor Street uh Sophie stre um yes so when I there's two um different orders for this one uh one is mainly um the order the order on that one is mostly um oh the special conditions um is erosion control not going past uh erosion controls on the plan so no work past the erosion controls um and no work uh within the 30 feet and that was um D file number 208 472 um and I will say um up front that it appeared that um the work didn't go past where it should have um according to the plan and D number 208 387 uh when I visited there um there was still a decent amount of snow on the ground um and this one was a little more in depth I believe involving a um a septic um in the house and a wetland uh the stream Crossing um and it was very difficult to see the Wetland uh replication that was also uh supposed to be included in that the orders of conditions in the special condition section um so I do not feel super comfortable um again with um not really having brushed up on uh Wetland delineation and saying that that was complete and done uh in compliance since it's a a more in-depth um project so if I can if I can add to that um yep I'm all set these these certificates of compliance are being requested um this was a property developed by Marty Wright um from plans back in the late 1990s the work was completed over 20 years ago and he's in the process of transferring ownership of the lot to his daughter and it was discovered that these orders of conditions were never closed out um so um the work is is accurate as Sophie described there was work for the house in a crossing for the driveway and then there was the septic system installation and again this work was completed over 20 years ago um soie walked the site with with John pfka from my office um you know there wasn't any evidence that there was any erosion occurring it was all stabilized um I did request a plans from uh Whitman and Bingham and the only plan that I was able to get to see what the actual physical scope of work was um was the septic system plan and I can share at least that with you uh so you can see and does Sophie have that um I'm not sure if she did we I think we just got this from from Steve bot over at Haley Ward but you see here this was the Vernal pool so this was and this is the Wetland line again this is a plan from 1998 see it was stamped the just the the basically the overcut the overfill of the septic system was the only thing that was within the buffer zone at the time uh the entire leeching trenches and everything is outside of the buffer zone um and again this was done you know 20 plus years ago so I I can't imagine there's anything that is destabilized at this point in time um so I don't know what more we can get for the commission to review this in order to be comfortable with issuing a c I think we just need to have uh sophy go out there uh without snow and come back and say yeah we're all set but I think I think there was I believe you guys walked it um um I don't I don't know the actual date but there was no snow on the ground um Sophie did I misunderstand uh there there was some um I can while you keep talking I can pull up pictures to get my memory back yeah um I believe and again John John walked it with you but with my discussions with him and I believe he had a follow-up conversation with you about um you know if there was anything else required to let us know before this hearing and we didn't get any any more feedback so we I was assuming we were all set with this and again he's just trying to transfer the lot to his daughter and uh in the title search the uh title company found these two orders that hadn't been closed out yet yeah I'm clear on that and I you know I don't want us to stand in the way but we also kind of have an obligation to make certain that we're doing the right thing too it's unfortunate that uh people sometimes let these things go so long oh uh Sophie uh Brian can you unshare so that Sophie can share y so here's the the septic area it's about I don't know 50% snow cover 60 yeah okay I get it it's quite a bit of snow on the ground I believe the water was still frozen at that point in some areas yeah but there's no snow now so um it should be something that as you're doing s sidewalks next week probably you can get out there and uh look at um there's snow currently I don't know where supposed to be 60 degrees all next week so I think we'll be okay U but I mean you know fair enough if there's snow then you you can't right you want you to see it and verify it and and bring us back a recommendation um we generally don't uh you know go against our administrator's recommendation for uh certificate of completion what what can we do about one of the orders where we don't have a plan there's no plan on record you know I looked at the registry trying to find records of this and nobody has it um you know we understand construction was of the crossing to get to the house it was building the house so can we just all agree that if Sophie walks the perimeter of the property and sees there's no erosion issues um you know I I just don't want to leave it open-ended since we don't have kind of the information to look at yeah fair enough fair enough as Brian um it so uh I've not crossed uh this circumstance before so again I'll lean on uh you know our our our Sage is uh rich and U Bob what are your what are your recommendations um since the documentation doesn't seem to be available about the original um ERS of the owner dig dig deep and try to find something so there's still a chance he might be able to but he hasn't been able to yet yeah well if he can find something from 20 years ago he's doing better than me I know I'm trying to actively Purge things like that um Rich what are your thoughts honestly Madam chair if um we have a rough description of what the project was and there are no obvious violations on site and it looks like it's been uh vegetated I have no problem considering the project closed okay thank you Rich Bob yeah and I'm looking on the mass mapper and I'm not seeing any evidence of either the Crossing in the driveway or the septic system of any erosion that's showing up okay Bob anything you'd like to add there I'm ready to make a motion to issue it uh fair enough um Mike yes I I agree sounds like it's been a long time um no paperwork looks like even with the partial snow it looked like uh you know although I did not walk the site but uh it looks like it's probably um well yeah Sophie did walk it and did have questions um so I I oh she did yeah that's where those photos were from so that's that's why I you know maybe we're being you know siding on the air of caution but uh she she is our eyes and ears but I mean if if she goes and walks it again and sees that there's no erosion everything stabilized would you then be you know in absence of the paperwork just because it's been so long would you be in a position to approve I would yes okay and Jenny what are your thoughts um if she were to go walk it again and find no issues I would also approve okay thank you um and uh for for the one Sophie that you were you were recommending 472 you thought um we could approve uh do we want to go ahead and uh approve that I would accept go ahead um I'm just looking at my notes yeah the 2208 472 I would accept a motion um to approve that one so moved thank you Bob I have a second Mike second Mike thank you okay um roll call vote uh Bob peas hi Jenny hi Mike I rich I and I for myself and then um I would recommend that we uh we continue the uh 208 387 to uh the next hearing which is 41177 um and give Sophia time to go out there when it's not snow when there's no snow on the ground and hopefully bring us back the good news on that one as well do I have a motion there so moved thank you Mike do I have a second second thank you Bob okay roll call vote r hi Mike hi Jenny hi Bob hi and I for myself okay thank you okay folks it is uh late um some of us are going to start turning into pumpkins uh is there anything else on the agenda that we need to cover before we can adjourn um I'd like uh I'd like to make a motion uh that we authorize the expenditure of $1,070 from the timber rights fund to purchase uh additional Trail markers Trail markers yes second okay uh roll call vote uh Jenny hi Mike hi Rich hi Bob hi an i for myself anything else that uh we need to uh handle tonight before we adjourn Jenn oh Jenny yes I think we still have 41 Country Road yes oh we sure do Jenny thank you um thank you and I still have one more COC that was oh do you do you we only had uh two uh there I get the homman uh norfield those are not on the agenda is the Northfield Road Lot a am I um am I looking at it down I thought I downloaded the agenda they were on last uh last meeting's agenda and you're on the revised agenda for this meeting are they okay oh down rev version okay so let's do 41 um 41 Country Road um Sophie um are we certain that it is okay to proceed with with hearings since it's now Thursday this is not a hearing and that's ridiculous in my home please yeah yeah I I I would uh it's not a hearing sounds good to me um but uh yeah let's and I apologize for my remarks but I'm tired and as slate well that's yep that's my point I think I think it is okay to proceed um so let's proceed uh so um I'm sorry which one 41 Country Road okay so this one um I had some some uh I guess you could say uh issues um observations concerns um on the site I noticed that the areas were not on the side of the road were not vegetated um that was uh made a point to me before I went on the site um as I walked around uh to the right of the driveway uh facing the the house um there was at least one possibly two uh of the um signs that are are supposed to uh delineate the uh Wetland uh buffer area um basically showing the boundary I did notice that the signs themselves were uh from uh the town of Bela um they were whed out over the town name I'm not sure if that matters so much since we're the in the town of lunenberg but uh regardless those signs weren't spaced uh according to the um conditions uh they were too far apart um at least the ones that I found were over 20 feet apart um the other issues that I found found was uh the other areas on the property were it's still pretty bare soil um no erosion issues that I could see um the erosion controls did appear to be buried um under soil on the um left hand side of the road um so they weren't removed entirely and the other issue that I noticed was mostly on this parcel but also on the adjacent parcel there's an area that appeared to have been pushed by a uh piece of equipment um some sort of of uh Rusty tractor cars um washing machine uh it looked like landfill um junk that was partially buried and pushed uh within the buffer zone of the brook that uh runs near the property well within the 200 foot um zone so that was that was a concern for me so it's like appliances and metal and stuff yeah and there's like a a tire that's half half covered um by the soil you could see where it's been kind of compacted down um and I sent I sent a summary of all these observations to the commission a little while ago okay anything else um no those are the main points okay um so what um stood out to me is the the berri junk um the uh be soil uh it's um not stabilized and then the uh the uh Wetlands um signage uh is not consistent with the order of conditions to be spaced at 20 ft that capture that correctly uh yeah okay um Brian uh do you have anything uh that you wanted to say about that I'm uh I'm on the other project oh you're on the other project I'm sorry it's it's John then sorry it's Scott Scott ah Scott it's getting late as Bob said no problem uh the the junk in the appliances are not on my property I don't know anything about the junk of the appliances there is no junker appliances buried on our property okay so it sounds like um Sophie will have to be out there actually with you to uh see where the um those appliances are and where your property line is okay um I can take care of the signs and add some signs as well I'll have that done before she comes out okay um the lawn was Hydro seated it didn't take around the house that's the that she's talking about but the entire perimeter of the property is stabilized and has growth so there is no erosion going in anywhere off the property okay well uh we do require that it all be stabilized um yeah that's uh that's my thought um is there anything that any other member of the commission wants to add comment or ask question aside from those corrective actions is there anything else that we need to have the applicant do or respond to okay then yeah uh add the signs um and uh make arrangements with uh Sophie uh so that you can uh be there with her to uh show where the property lines are right so we can validate that that's not you're not responsible for the buried appliances and whatnot yeah um yeah and and then you know we would look for the uh soil to be stabilized but if it's getting warm that should that I'm next week hopefully yeah it should grow back um pretty quickly there so now I I have a closing the 15th of April is there a way to get this before then if I have everything done I think there's a way to do this before uh April 15 Bob or Rich not nope yeah Madam chair I wouldn't sign off on it given that it's half of the house is in the in a repairing Zone without the area being stabilized with grass