##VIDEO ID:5QMBgTUGEGk## okay welcome to the lunberg Conservation Commission uh meeting of December 18th 2024 uh in accordance with the requirements of the open meetings law please be advised that this meeting is being audio and video recorded the agenda lists all of the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those that are reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law please address all comments to the chair um the meeting of the Conservation Commission will be held by Zoom with the link provided in this notice um and uh for uh anyone who's this is kind of they're listening in for the first time you can go find this agenda on the town calendar uh and also post it uh on the town website under uh meetings and agendas in the Conservation Commission area uh the zoom meeting ID is 875 2621 4314 okay and we will start with a roll call Jenny present Rich Jeff Jeff definitely told me he wouldn't be able to make it Mike present Chris Pres okay thank you and uh we will start out with announcements and I have uh I have one uh announcement uh so we're going to have a special schedule in January to help us kind of uh get around the holidays um so in January we'll be meeting on January 8th January 22nd and then on January 29th uh we are working on getting all of our Lake reports uh lined up to come in uh for a special session on the 29th as well uh so for anyone that might need to participate in January that's used to our regular Cadence be aware uh that those will be uh you know different dates in our normal Cadence uh Chris you did have one topic that I wanted to go ahead and uh ask if you would uh go ahead and announce um uh as the public announcement I think it was paint stewardship yes so um it's actually called the paint stewardship program and uh it's a the program is a producer Responsibility program that manages leftover paint and how it works is consumers would pay a small fee at the point of sale which funds the program the program is managed by a nonprofit organization that represents paint manufacturers uh the organization establishes paint collection sites transports the paint for processing and provides public education materials on proper paint management um at the state level there's a there's paint stewardship legislation pending uh the state's 2030 Solid Waste master plan identifies paint stewardship as a key contributor to achieving their zero waste goal um the program will accept both oil based in latex paints um when the paint is ultimately discarded um it's where it's collected at these collection points it's picked up by an organization called Paint care and paint care will actually bring it to a reprocessing plant where it's re Blended and sold to entities like restore and Habitat for Humanity um there are some opponents to the program um retails Association of Massachusetts the national Federation of Independent Business Northern retail Lumber Dealers Association in mrf and Springfield which operates Waste Management recycles of America um um the there the proponents are Miss uh 30 31% of the municipalities um of the state Mass D MMA which is Massachusetts Municipal Association and local governments and organizations across Massachusetts um the opponents the what the opponents are saying is that they they fear it'll decrease profitability by expanding the number of plastic bottles with a mandated Deposit they also argued that the program could lead to similar recovery fees or takeback programs or for other products potentially increasing consumer costs and burdening retailers um things like that some argue that the paint stewardship fee is essentially a tax um but I just wanted to bring both both um both sides of of of this you know proponents and opponents of this program and that's that's that's it at a high level um were there any actions uh for the Conservation Commission or is it awareness and assur and awareness it's mostly awareness and just you know hoping we get you know um get the word out and and get people um to uh basically you know get behind it and get this pushed through okay very good I I I I was actually happy that my biggest question personally was what do they do with the paint so I was pleasantly surp surprised that they um they reblend it and it's reused so I was afraid that you know sometimes we hear about our bottles that we return end up going to China you know and these uh the seem to be you know a local program for my personal opinion it looks like a a worthwhile program okay very good thank you Chris thanks for raising awareness sure okay uh so do we have have any other comments from members of the Conservation Commission uh all right uh we'll move it over to public comment uh as a reminder public comments are limited to three minutes and on a subject matter uh under direct uh jurisdiction of the commission comments about current agenda items are to be made uh during the comment period of that specific agenda item please address all comments to the chair and uh you know for members of the public speaking now or during one of the hearings uh you know raise your hand uh as the right protocol uh and I will call on you or turn on your camera and wait raise your hand there uh if you're not familiar with the zoom interface interface and uh state your name and your address uh as you introduce yourself do we have any comments from the public I am not seeing any okay and I I haven't seen uh minutes from previous meetings either uh so I don't think we have any actions there uh sopia have we had any uh requests for continuation in the past 48 Hours uh yes so 390 Howard Street they requested to continue to the next meeting okay and um the 400 Mr Shirley rode um that specific topic they requested to continue to the next meeting that's all I have okay very good well we'll go ahead and uh and uh take action on those um and get them out of the way so I understand Sophie 390 Howard Street has requested a continuation to the January 8th uh meeting so I'm looking for a motion to continue from the Conservation Commission oh hang on uh Bill Hanan has his hand raised I will call on bill before we uh go there uh good evening um thanks for taking my my um call on this the uh the 400 lemon Shirley Road I do want to have some comments about that before we continue it so if we can just hold off and continueing that until we get to that uh specific item and then we continue at that point thanks okay fair enough uh thanks for that clarification Bill okay back to 390 Howard Street uh do I have a motion to continue to January 8th so moved second mik thank you Mike thank you Chris uh roll call vote Jenny I Mike I Chris I and I for myself so we've continued that one to January 8th all right we'll go back to New public hearings now uh just GNA go check on stuff I do like to during the uh doing the zoom meetings uh pin my uh Commissioners um but sometimes it pins other people and I don't know why um anyway we're just going to live with it um pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 uh section 40 is amended in the town of lunber wetlands protection and Municipal B laws a public hearing on a notice of intent by Chris McKenzie for a septic system upgrade with related site grading at a bordering vegetated Wetland located at 48 Arbor Street okay do we have uh Chris or his uh representative here with us tonight so Dan Proctor William I Proctor Excavating I'm the contractor putting in a septic system for the kudam mases I will be speaking that TR okay thank you uh so do you want to give us a overview of that uh project then do you have the ability to share uh Danny I don't I'd have to rely on Sophia if she could okay sopia can you share that um site plan for us yes I just have to go into open go one moment okay I can do it if you want I'm supporting Danny here today that would be great Greg why don't I do it I got it write up here bear with me oh I need to you need to give me permission I think permission granted how's that that looks good to me so basically we have a failed uh Title 5 cess pool on this property we have a proposed uh gravity system new tank 42 by1 19 and A2 foot Presby bed with Associated filling on the low side um obviously he has the 30 foot node disturbs on in red the 50 Foot buffer on in blue and the 100 foot uh buffer on line in the orange the new system on the plan is showing is 57 feet from the edge of wetlands uh pretty standard probably a week's worth of work weather permitting and normal erosion control straw waddle would be put in place obviously with a site visit from conservation to before we start there's a little bit of elevation there I mean I I personally would be looking for a straw waddle and um Sil fence okay just because it is a little steep out in that uh backyard area okay we certainly can do that uh I noticed in the DP uh comments uh they had some questions about the how the Wetland was delineated okay I'll ask Greg for his interpretation on that yeah I checked in with uh so I'm I'm filling in here I apologize I didn't uh prepare this although I did stamp it the plan uh review and stamp it but I didn't prepare the notice of in t application but what I understand that wedland delineation report was um supplemental information was filed uh with uh with your office Sophia are you a receed of that uh what what do you uh can you clarify supplemental information Greg Jack Jack told me that um that Wetland delineation report was that Wetland delation report was requested that he did provide that uh oh yeah yep um yeah I see that Maddie uploaded that to uh the open gov account so I mean you know essentially uh you know we we delineated the wetlands the way we do every other one right it's based on soils vegetation and hydrology and um that report is you know just documents um the procedures for that okay but I didn't see anything out there that seemed like it could be um controversial with regard to you know my own yeah and this walk out in this case it's pretty topography driven you know it's right at the ba it's right at the base of a as as you indicated Madam cherot there's a slope in the back in the back of the house and it's it's fairly uh topography driven and then it's right at the bottom of the slope where the Wetland is uh do we have questions or comments from other members of the commission Sophia um I guess it's just kind of a a comment or concern I believe this is the site that I noticed a bunch of uh Wetland buffer uh veget station that was slashed up until the actual Wetland flag lines on the steeper side and so that was just concerning I don't know when that happened but um it's not something that's permitted I know I know going through conservation I'm not sure when that happened either but I do know that the owner of the property was aware of your comments that you made about that and were they able to clarify when that happened or under what circumstances it happened I don't know I'm sorry uh Sophie the vegetation that was slashed was uh any of it uh any of it like trees or saplings or anything or was it all uh kind of soft uh vegetation that would die back in the fall anyway um it's hard to tell um some of it might have been some thick brush um some of it might have been saplings as well it's cut down to like I would say maybe three inches in height um but I don't know how the uh Wetland scientist was able to determine exactly where that's that ended I know soils tell a pretty good story but again it's concerning that that happened agreed so uh it makes it makes me wonder if we shouldn't consider uh because also the property uh it looks like is up for sale that's correct if we shouldn't uh further impose some type of delineation of the 30 foot uh in there just to ensure that as home ownership uh changes hands people are clear that's a that's a a regulated area anybody have thoughts on that uh conservation Commissioners yeah if any any chance we have an opportunity to educate the the new owners I think would be um would be a good idea sir I'm sorry go ahead Danny yeah yeah I was just going to say I certainly could put up some markings at the 30 foot no disturb Zone um Wetland flagging you know the placards that you have correct yeah you have placards yeah that's what I think that would be excellent um in in my opinion is one commissioner uh Mike you have your hand up uh yes Madam chair I'm just curious um how far does this property I guess I was just looking is this the only place where this could be constructed Yeah so basically I mean the gravity was the key trying to get gravity if we had to pump we'd actually have to cross the Wetland to get up on high ground on the other side of the property so this is the best spot on the site to have a gravity septic system so above the existing cess poool I was just looking um and I'm not sure if the property extends to that point by Arbor Street well because of the gray change yeah we we'd have to pump up there and then that that c path would be lost so that's why we went the rout we we did to have a gravity system without losing the front yard and does Greg concur with your did you say Greg yes thanks uh yeah you know you look at this um in a repair in a situation where we have a repair septic system that is going to be replacing a failed um in this case Cesspool uh which is you know essentially the ter failure here is referring to failure to protect public health and safety essentially um that you really look to put this in the best spot from a soil standpoint and and you know overall um lot layout standpoint the soils out here are pretty tough um we had to do a Civ analysis for the perk tests for example we couldn't do a conventional perk test um so really um when you look at this uh not Reinventing the wheel and and and moving moving it to a completely different part of the site um is is definitely a factor uh with these things um especially since we can do it in a manner that that in our view complies with your uh rules and reg you know Wetland bylaw and regulations so um you know it's really soils driven and also topography driven as Danny said um it's a gravity system today it becomes onor and a lot more costly to do pump systems um on the on the owner so um and and the system you're going to get uh will be replacing a a system that's failing to protect the you know the public health and safety from a Wastewater standpoint you'll be getting a new modern day system so it you know it's generally viewed as a a win-win situation particularly as I said if we can do it in compliance with your rigs which we um you know we're not showing any work in the 30 um the system is outside of the 50 as is required by tley requirements and things so thank you Greg thank you madam chair thank you Mike do we have any questions or comments for members of the public okay I am uh I don't see anybody with their hand raised I think I'm entertaining uh we have a d number for this so I think I would entertain a motion to approve the two uh special conditions that I uh heard articulated were addition of a silk fence to the straw waddle and then uh the addition of of uh you know buffer zone uh placards uh protected uh Zone placards uh along the 30 foot uh delineation there um and I we didn't establish uh how often I think every 20 or 25 feet would be fine do I have a motion to approve I motion to approve with those special conditions thank you Chris do I have a second second thank you Jenny roll call vote uh Chris I Mike I Jenny I and I for myself thank you all thank you thanks okay moving along pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunenberg wetland protection Municipal bylaws a public hearing on a notice of intent by Nigel Hamburg for renovations to an existing single family home reconstruction of an existing deck removal of four trees within the 50 to 100t buffer zone and restoration replacement of existing 50 square foot shed within the 50 Foot no build zone of the bordering vegetated Wetland located at 50 Pine Grove Road do we have uh the applicant Andor their representative here with us tonight Madam chair Greg Roy with dson Roy I'm representing the applicant this evening back Greg thank you uh I stopped my share uh screen share but just for formality I'm assuming it's okay if I reshare here yes please do okay um how's that can we see that that looks good okay so again um Greg Roy with Dillon Roy I'm standing in here for Frank mcpartland from my office another engineer um who's who's been working on this but um I was going to be in attendance this evening so I told him I'd cover it uh but you do have the uh the be crew here tonight so I apologize for that uh Pine Grove is located here uh Pine Grove Road is located here on the right hand side of the screen uh lake whum is shown highlighted in blue um this first blue line here that you see uh is the limit of the 30t uh no disturb Zone uh the second uh line here blue line is the limit of the 50ft no disturb Zone and the uh uh dot dotted line here uh at the edge of the green hatching is the limit of the 100ft buffer zone on the property there's an existing house which is shown here in uh gray hatching and then there is a um existing deck that's not existing anymore um so this um rectangle here that's that's uh slightly different color gray or a a um different color uh is a deck uh that existed I think prior to July uh actually fell off the house um because it was in such bad repair um so we're showing it as an existing deck because it was it has been uh it's been there um accessors records and things and and photos I think that we submitted uh in to your uh commission uh to staff um shows that the deck was there it just it's it has now fallen off the house and been removed but I wanted to explain that um there's an existing septic tank you can kind of see this circle here um that's a little difficult to see and then this uh red hatched area that I have a red uh um ballooned area here is the location of the existing leeching field um the existing leeching field has passed the title Five inspection so it's not intended to be replaced um it it does it is still functioning um and and meets all the criteria uh to pass and be continued for use um and then um there's an existing shed structure that's located down here um which straddles the 30 foot uh no disturb Zone that is that's present there today um really we're asking you for um four things this evening uh the first is to re re build the deck uh in the location that it existed before so essentially just rebuilding it uh in in the place of of this um uh magenta I'll call it or or lighter gray um rectangle that is outside of the 50ft um uh no structure zone so um in spite of the fact that it was you know in our view pre-existing um it would still comply um we wouldn't need any relief uh for that uh secondly there are four trees that are shown underneath these X's um that are greater than 12 in in in diameter uh that are in very close proximity to the leeching field and our U the root system is causing an issue uh and will likely could likely have long-term functionality issues with the leeching field um so we're proposing to remove those trees um they're they're all within uh definitely within five feet some some closer than than that to the uh existing leeching field um just uh one comment uh Jenny and I saw five trees marked that looked like mature trees um okay I'm not sure Frank handed me this plan and said there was four trees um do you know where the fifth one was kind at the corner just below where your cursor just was right here oh no I'm sorry that's not right I think it was in between where you where you were when I said go to the corner I think it's right about there in here okay I think so Jenny is that uh sort of where you thought it was too I was just looking at the photo right now it seems like it's approximately there yeah it looked like it was in between those two big xes where his cursor is right now was it a smaller diameter tree by chance or I actually think the first X is a smaller diameter tree and then the next one is a larger diameter tree okay um well I'm not sure um about that I guess um I'd have to verify that uh we might be a Five Flags in the field gu in there in there in close proximity it's it's plausible that we missed one here on the plan but not yeah so I'm not sure but thank you for bringing that up um did it look like it was the same kind of close proximity to where the leeching field would be like kind of same way okay yeah you know and it's it's marked it it was kind of in line with uh so it would have been the Third Kind of in that line okay um so anyway uh we that's asked two the removal of four or five trees as you as you pointed out out um ask three is to um is to do some improvements to the um the the ground surface if you will um sort of just give this a facelift um you know I think that that um just kind of you know uh smooth this out and and bring this back to a lawn condition uh where we're showing in green um that would all be outside of uh the 30 foot and in fact upgradient of an exist in U stone wall that exists right underneath this yellow line here um we would be proposing to put a line of um erosion control which would be Waddles and silt fence right along that and upgrading to that stone wall so we'd be keeping all of that proposed work outside of the uh 30 foot no disturb Zone uh that's ask three and then four um the the applicant would like to rebuild the existing shed uh in the exact same footprint so no change uh to that um from a dimensional standpoint or a size standpoint or a location standpoint um and while that's under construction we're proposing to wrap that uh with um with Sil fence as well uh just in that you know just downgrading in that just to make sure we don't have any migration um so no real soil disturbance or vegetation disturbance in this area we just want to rebuild that structure in place so that as I mentioned would require some work on a pre-existing uh structure uh some of which is within the 30 foot uh Noti disturb Zone um this has received a DP number there were no comments um with that um I know that as you've indicated I know that uh several of you have been to the site um so I'm happy to take any questions or comments and try to provide you answers to the extent that I can I appreciate that overview thank you uh so the uh shed seems like it's uh primarily within the 30 foot Zone I mean it's it's pretty fallen down but uh my observation was uh yeah even that drawing seemed very generous with regard to how much is in the 30 foot versus how much is in the 50 uh so the The Narrative of it being in the 50 Foot um Zone uh seems overly generous yeah it's definitely a good portion of it's in the 30 yeah I didn't mean to apply otherwise sorry um yeah and then uh it it really doesn't look like that shed's been down been in repair for for a long time is there an opportunity or would the client your client be amable to um bringing it outside of the 50 Foot Zone I mean it be closer to the deck there out of the 50 yeah um I don't know I'd have to check it's more level there too at least it appeared to be when I was walking there yeah um the other question I had is the uh deck size is it going to be remain the same or is it going to be increased my understanding is they're doing the the exact same um size that that had pre that was there existing the house there no uh no stairs drawn uh on there that's a great that's a great question um presumably there would be stairs I I am not sure about the stairs though um yeah I would like to have the stairs shown so that we don't have any misunderstanding about the sh stairs being outside of the outline that we're currently looking at okay um would the existing Footers be used or would new Footers be installed um so I would I would expect they would I don't know I'm just going by what I would do of course I'm an engineer uh which some consider to be a disease but um I would imagine that they would probably uh replace the Footers just because it's it's been a while um but I would expect they'd go in the similar location okay what are the what's the uh dimension of that deck as drawn no I knew you were GNA ask me this stuff and I almost asked my let me see if I can get a dimension here real quick I apologize um 12T by the width of the house which is 36 ft so 12 out from the house 36 feet wide or long however you want to say it okay uh that was all uh that was all my questions and I I personally would like to have the the five trees marked um just so there again so that there no uh misunderstandings uh I'll open uh open the floor do we have questions or comments from other conservation Commissioners uh yes Chris yeah I just want to say I I I had the same idea you did Mary I think that shed has an we have an opportunity to get that out of there and put it put it back a little further back from the water so thank you Chris sopia um Greg I don't I don't know if you kind of covered more of the um erosion control um I don't know if you looked at my comments but I was concerned about the grade being little on the steeper side and just going through and clearing that that whole area um and then just seeding it um do you feel like there's any concerns with um the seed kind of washing down the the gradient at all yeah uh we did actually I didn't I didn't say this but we did we did actually issue a comment response letter there um that Frank prepared dated the December 13th and we have committed to um uh where are we at here um four I think was that comment it was existing steep grade and proposed light grading and clearing causes concern for erosion runoff and Rain events U advis jetting more aggressive way so um our comment was after the sidewalk DNR discussed this with the applicant the proposed area to be loaned and seated will be rein Force withu adding to allow the reestablishment of vegetation so just to beef that up a little bit um which should more than take care of the problem we would this is one of those situations where uh uh under most scenarios would likely be fine you would likely get vegetation growing on this slope without a without a big problem it is there's a slope for sure down to you know from the house to the lake but it's not excessively steep um if you have that um abnormal rain event that now happens you know about once every three days during during the summer that's exactly what I was thinking of yeah if if you have those those uh you know those those real intense rains um you know that's what you GNA have after you've just seated and it hasn't been established that's when you're going to have the problem so uh we agree we and we'll put some Jude netting on that and is that area going to be upgradient from the existing wall correct okay yeah so you'd have um you'd have the no work below the uh siltation barrier which again is uh staked um straw Waddles and silt fence and then upgrading of that under dist under the Disturbed slope coming up from that you'd have Jud netting so you know that's kind of a belt and suspenders approach here I think um my other question was I know in previous projects you've kind of discussed the possibilities of um um damaging septic systems by removing trees including the root um we don't want yeah we don't want to remove the root mass in this case we do want to take the tree down below grade so we're going to grind it a few inches below grade but we will be leaving the root ball so it's not to disturb the um the the roots are likely in the leeching field in some capacity it's not causing a problem at the moment which is creating a failure um but we want to stop any any further progression of that so we'd be um cutting the tree grinding it below grade and making sure that there's no there's no more growth um of that tree in the future that would um also have resulting root growth not pop will not pop the root balls Greg can you scroll up on on this note I uh on this uh corespondence I didn't have the benefit of seeing it before the meeting you bet let me see if I can get it all in there I can't zo I one was just about the existing the fact that the existing deck doesn't exist anymore so I narrated that comment to was what we were just discussing about the The Roots uh leaving the stumps we do we do intend to cut the tree and grind them a few inches below grade but we'll leave the the most of the mass of the root um so it won't be excessively disturbing the soil or disrupting the leeching uh system or risk disrupting leeching system and then um I'm not sure about this one I wasn't uh I wasn't prized to this I'm not sure if anybody else can commentate on that or not well the response seems plausible yeah I so effectively we wouldn't be doing any more work within the 30f foot um you know all the work would be confined to this application outside of that um 30 foot Zone okay thank you you bet Sophia any other questions or comments um no I just I just agree with uh the finding of the the other tree in that line because I do also have photos that they're marked um okay thank you no that's it okay Mike you good sometimes they're not perfect yeah uh Mike you had your hand up yes I think uh Sophia answered part of it and I was just wondering I know uh was there any uh thought about putting in any other trees uh as these are being cut even though it's not um it's not in our purview to ask but we're just curious or I'm just curious to see if there was any plan other than some of the shrubs that are proposed um any small because you're going to be opening up the canopy uh big time here Greg so it's an opportunity to perhaps replace um some of those trees if uh if you thought it was a good idea to do so so I confess I I asked that question to Frank the F the first thing when he was briefing me uh for this meeting I said well where's your replacement trees they're going to ask you so we looked at that it's Frank's opinion and you know for I haven't been to the personally but for those of you who have you can you know correct me if I'm wrong here it's Frank's opinion that it's really not a lot of space there um you know it's a pretty narrow lot the leeching field um you know we're taking the trees out that are in real close proximity but really planting trees within 10 feet of leeching field is not really advisable and there's not many places in the back of the house there um certainly within the 50 um that are um uh outside of that limit um um and then you know we are leaving a lot we're leaving all of the trees that are in the 30s so we have a 14inch a 16inch not sure what this is another 14 inch and 18inch deciduous here um 12 in two 12s here and a bunch of trees down by the so it's not like we're you know it's not like the resulting lot will be deforested completely matter of fact the area within the 30 has has quite a significant canopy which is you know will be protected of the water uh from a shade standpoint um and we we do have you know this 18inch tree that will be maintained here so I get it we're we're moving five trees but um there's not a lot of area to to replace them I guess is our opinion um you you can you can be free to disagree I guess but that's that's my response um Mike I I would also add I I was out there and it is a narrow lot um and I actually really like this lot because it is very heavily uh treed uh in the 30-foot Zone uh so I really I really appreciated that um and I you know having walked out on it it feels very claustrophobic uh in that you know kind of backyard area that's highlighted in green so I I kind of uh agree with what um Greg just said in this case and that's fine I just wanted to bring bring it up and I oh yeah it's a fair it's a fair question and I'm glad you did bring it up it's worthy of discussion thank you any other questions or comments from members of the commission okay I'm not seeing any do we have uh questions or comments from members of the public I am not seeing any uh so by just speaking as one uh commissioner would like to see if the shed could be moved outside of the 50 um and then uh I think I'd like to have the drawing also up updated uh to uh have that extra tree uh shown and then I'd like to know definitively that the uh deck uh is not going to have stairs as it's drawn right now or that the stairs would be within the footprint as drawn would you object to the stairs being outside the footprint mean would comply with your 50 foot policy uh yeah I'm not sure I'm not sure what the plan is I'm just trying to just trying to head off me as one you know how it goes I can only speak for me and I'm only one vote right um it's it's out outside of the 50 and so I personally would not object to something reasonable but I'm not having seen something or seen dimensions on something would not give you a pre-approval on it understood yeah okay yeah uh Jenny you rais your hand um I had a question about the deck what can we find out what material it's going to be and also what will be underneath it did we go over that and did I miss it no you didn't miss it it's a good question yeah we can do that for you yeah I I I mean obviously the uh framing will be pressure treated um the um I don't know if they're going to go with a more expensive composite or if they're going to stick with pressure treated or if they're going to do um natural or or what so and I'll get the under the UND side uh added to that too from a material standpoint okay so uh Greg uh would it be okay to continue this to January 8th yeah January we we can get these turn around fast so January 8th we'll be fine uh anybody else have any questions or comments uh anything else they'd be looking uh for the applicant to bring at the next hearing because we don't want them have to go back and forth okay and I'm not uh I'm not seeing anything uh so I think I'm looking for a motion to continue to January 8th thank you Chris thank you Jenny roll call vote Mike hi Chris hi Jenny hi and I for myself thank you everybody thank you you okay moving along to continued public hearings Pursuit it to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunenberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing on a request to amend an order of resource area delineation by Christopher Anderson to remove a portion of the resource area delineation from the order due to maintenance performed on a manmade detention Basin at 400 lemit to Shirley Road and do we have the uh applicant uh here tonight we have the applicant representative Bill Hanigan thank you and the applicant is with is on here as well Jack Brennan of um of the Brennan group um I just wanted to touch base with regards to our conversation the last meeting um the last meeting we I think we were pretty much pretty much there um and then Sophia brought up a letter that was issued by D um on I believe it was the 24th of September going back and looking at the um the chronology of events um surrounding the two filings that were were created on this one was uh the anrad request by by this office for our client um um lunberg um JMC lunenberg um LLC uh for the Wetland delineation we did that in in October of 22 the commission reviewed and walked the site um on on a few occasions I I believe that uh the agent of the time um went out several times as well looked at different areas in and and at that point um the delineation was agreed upon and we went and received the um the order of um resour are determination uh in December of 2022 in um January of 2023 um PJ keing um sent in an application requesting a nrda the issued for the uh the the Reconstruction or maintenance of an existing drainage basin that was part of their operational systems within U their their their keing uh the keing um wash plants for their for their product um we weren't part of that submitt when we were we were weren really fully aware of what was going on but the commission then issued a negative determination to allow that work to be done and issued the determination of applicability um in March of um of 2023 um that was then um the work on that was then completed by P J keing company and more recently as we're getting ready for our future development on that side of the road we felt it would be prudent to go back and more or less update the the uh orad to reflect the fact that that Basin has now been been constructed in that area and that that series of wetlands is no longer part of the jurisdictional aspect of uh either the the act or the bylaw during that process we had requested um getting a copy of the determination from the town which I understand you had changed Personnel moving things around and and no one could put their fingers on the on the actual um document and I believe what happened was um that someone someone I presume that someone instructed Sophia just to issue you know basically a copy um that was issued on dece um September 11th of 2024 and DP at the last meeting I was provided a letter from DP I think that was on the 24th of September basically intervening on that that um that determination applicability that was filed um as a as a second it was a second filing basically so I've I've talked to um Judy schmidtz at at D they're kind of um working their way through this trying to figure out what to do and but my my perspective on it is that um the the order of I'm sorry the determination of applicability that was issued in March of 2020 um three is the one that governs and that was the one that was issued based upon the vote by the commission and then the work was done and since no one could find it um issuing another basically a copy of it doesn't doesn't start the clock ticking again with d and um so that's where we are with it right now um we're we're trying to work with PJ keing and D to kind of clear clear this up so we can come back to the commission and and allow the commission to hopefully have correspondence from D that allows us all to move forward but I just wanted to just touch base with the with the commission let them know that that we are working on trying to resolve that that old issue um but I do think it would be helpful if the if the commission could actually send a letter in the DP basically retracting the September 11th filing because it was a duplicate filing of the of the resource area determination um or the DOA the termination applicability that was already issued in March of 2023 and um I think that that would at least clarify from the from the D's perspective that the town is is ack knowledging that hey we already approved this back in March we couldn't find it you know we we now have a copy of that that we were you know because I sent a copy of that we found that through keading we sent a copy of that over to um Sophia so now we have the the right the right original and that this version that was sent over on September 11th is not the original and and doesn't doesn't basically start a clock ticking on September 11th because the clock basically expired back in March of 2023 um I think that would be helpful in clarifying some things and then from there I think we're going to have to let uh PJ keading discuss this with de about how that all gets resolved before we come back to the commission and um and do a final decision on how how we're going to deal with the that that D series of wetlands that's in that area so um just an update I wanted to provide that and if there's any any questions I can um try to address them but um at that at that point we just be requesting continuance to the next meeting okay um and if I understand uh Bill and thanks for that summary and thanks for the chronology that's um that's really helpful um yeah I'm actually I actually told Judy I'm going to put that in writing in an email and kind of give her the documentation of everything along the way so that she can um look at it and I'll copy the commission on that when I send that out that would be wonderful thank you um and so I think what you're asking of Lo uh is that you have obtained the original from uh keing uh you've provided that to Sophia uh and you would like for us to uh instruct Sophia to send that to D and retract the one that was sent in September of 2024 yeah I mean you you already sent that to DP back in March at least um I think it was Anna that was involved and the the letter that it it says the DP was copied um but yeah if you want just confirm that you can send that to to Judy as well to say hey here's here's the original you know we couldn't find it or whatever and then so we just we had we thought we thought maybe that was never issued so we we tried to get something out so that bill could move forward with what he's trying to do and that's kind of where we stand right now but that was in fact a duplicate issuance of a permit that was issued in March of 2023 I think that would be helpful and it would help I think it would help DP to to know that the commission is acknowledging that they actually issued the permit in March of 2023 and not September of 2024 okay uh Sophia um does that make sense to you I think you may have also talked to DP I did I have to say it is I think the puzzle pieces are slowly coming together um thank you Bill for for filling me in on that that whole chronology and thanks for talking to Judy um about that too um it's very clear now and I can provide that to them if they have it already that's fine and I send another one that's okay but I will also send them that you know the original and try to make sure that's clear yeah so if you want I'm going to be sending that um that um chronology out tomorrow um maybe you could reply to that chology and say you agree or or you can issue your own statement ahead of it that's fine too um how if you want to keep it separate which I I think maybe actually that might be the better way of doing it so there's no the commission on their own accord is is is saying hey here's here's the original um so disregard the one from September and then I can follow up with the chronology to her so it's a it's a it's a a moving puzzle at this point in time but I think we're I think we're starting to get it under control I agree okay do we have any uh questions or comments from members of the commission does anybody have any concerns with this approach okay and I'm not seeing any um to me I think it makes uh makes a lot of sense uh so uh what I think I'm going to ask uh is is for a vote on that just so you know some things get a little bit uh weedy and convoluted I want to make certain that everybody's clear that the commission is in alignment and if the commission's not in alignment I want to formalize that with uh also a vote to ensure people are saying one way or the other so I'm looking for a motion uh to uh have Sophia uh send the original uh and uh clarify that the copy that was sent in uh September was a misunderstanding of of the office that uh that was we misunderstood that the uh original had not actually been filed uh and that the original was actually uh granted in March of 20123 so moved thank you Chris second Mike thank you Mike roll call vote Mike hi Chris hi J hi I for myself okay thank you thanks for that bill at the same time we'll continue this um this matter to the next meeting and hopefully by the time the next meeting um happens all this is kind of um all the pieces have fallen into place so we'd also request the continuance to the January 8th meeting I think is your next meeting okay I think that makes a lot of sense as well um I'm looking for a motion to continue to January 8th second thank you Jenny uh thank you Chris uh roll call vote Mike I Chris hi Jenny hi and I for myself okay thank you thank you moving along pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunber wetlands protection and Municipal bow laws a public hearing on a not of intent by DNA lunberg LLC for construction of storm water management system within the 50 and 100 buff foot buffer zone but outside of the 30-foot buffer zone bordering a vegetated wetland located at electric AV and Pierce a DP file number 208 1332 do we have the applicant Andor their representative here tonight for the record Bill Hanigan with Hanigan engineering back in back in the fold okay Bill uh you want to just uh get us back uh in the zone with regard to this uh project and uh what we had uh uh where we were where we left off yeah at the at the last meeting U we went over the plans um there were some comments from D relative to labeling some of the um the water quality outlets and some um some other items and at that point we were waiting for the peer review to come back uh through the planning board peer review um company uh uh Graves engineering we just received that yesterday um and and I can I can bring that up um uh because there were uh really no major comments on it and but we can review that real yeah I'd appreciate that Bill thank you let me just um yeah so so this is the um the letter from from graves which basically says they deter they reviewed all of our all of our documents um then there's the things that talk about relative to zoning and then site plan review they have no issues with compliance with the regs storm water and sewer regulations they have no issues with um compliance with those regulations they reviewed the drainage report and found that the methodol and Cal calculations were in order um compliance with theep um stor water standards for the storm water handbook is in is reasonable and then he add some comments um similar to some some of the um the comments that de P had relative to the um updating of the uh the labeling of water quality units and stuff like that so constr some construction details here so there were no major items that would CH make any changes on the plan aside from the same updates that we would make for conservation relative to GDP so now that we have this what my proposal tonight was going to be to um continue to the next meeting with this knowledge in between now and the next meeting we'd get the plans updated we'd prepare comment response letters for both the gei comments as well as the D comments and get that over to both planning and conservation um and then from there we would at the next meeting I think everything would be in order um and you'd have the plan set that would be appropriate to vote on versus one that's not quite there yet okay um and and will you also be doing uh on onm and submitting that I believe the OM omm was submitted as part of the um me I know it was it's actually within the drainage analysis there's a whole storm water compliance and operation maintenance manual um that's part of that and I believe that on the D comments um they had one as aspect that we needed to update in the omm to include the main activities for the proposed dry detention Basin so that that will be all part of the submitt um updates that we're providing to both planning and con yep okay so you're looking for a January 8th con um continuation y okay I think in instead of us trying to run around try to get the plans updated and hand it to you tonight where you don't have time to review them let us let us have some time to to get those squared away um hopefully have those submitted um you know beginning of next week and I know there's a week when no one's going to be around uh but at least by then uh we should be able to just pluck right through the remaining comments and uh and address everything that's been requested okay uh very good um so I'm looking for a uh motion to continue um unless there are questions or comments from members of the commission um want to overlook that formality and I'm not seeing any so I'm looking for a motion to continue so moved second thank you Mike thank you Chris roll call vote Jenny hi Chris hi Mike I and I for myself okay thank you thank you very much have a good night uh 390 Howard Street we've already continued uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunenberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing to reissue orders of conditions for a notice of intent by Greg Roy of Dillis Roy on behalf of John and Kathy Beal for the construction of an addition to an existing dwelling port deck extension driveway and addition of a retaining wall proposed change of span the 3050 and 100 foot buffer zones of Hickory Hill Lake located at 12 Horizon Island Road uh do we have Greg and uh and or the owners here yeah Madam chair Greg Roy with dson Roy I am here representing the applicant uh Kath at least Kathy and perhaps John is is likely on with Kathy as well um so we were here two weeks ago um to ask you for essentially two things one is to issue the or I guess reissue we were calling it The originally approved U order of conditions that was approved onor about March 2nd of 2022 but no one could find a copy the signed we think it just didn't get signed and issued so you did do that uh you voted to do that you um you all were kind enough to uh sign that and we have now recorded it and we have sent that to uh back into Sophie so you have your your file is uh up to date um the uh and I and and so the second thing we asked you is is that we were actually also looking to uh um uh free assuming or assuming that that order was still in place which at the time it wasn't but now it is um we're now asking you to amend the order conditions uh to allow uh for some improvements um repairs if you will to the uh existing wall uh retaining walls by the lake and I did summarize what we're looking to do um we're looking to replace last meeting we're looking to replace the walls essentially with naturalized Stone uh wall uh the applicant is looking to hire Brett Ramson local reputable local uh Stone Mason to do that work um we would be moving the the the primary um issue at the original hearing two and a half years ago was that uh we had a flood plane issue um relative to the way we were proposing to do the the wall repair um we're now proposing to move that wall back from the lake um creating additional uh land underwater um an additional Lake area if you will um the thereby completely mitigating any concerns with um with flood plane because we'd actually be increasing the flood plane storage uh in the area um at the last meeting um it was asked that we provide you with an updated form three that documented that which we also did um in the sometime last week uh which which documented that um there will be an increase an increase in the amount of flood uh storage it did document the um the temporary work we're proposing in land underwater um and then also documented the uh permanent increase in land underwater that would be uh created uh or and or mitigated if you will um so that uh the amended order conditions could be can be drafted so um I think that's it I'm happy to take any questions my understanding was we were waiting for those two sort of formalities to to happen recording of the original order which was done and then that form three that sort of memorialized the uh the numbers that I presented at the last meeting so no no further changes or are requested as uh we're just here to uh try to get the uh to get that uh complete unless there's any other questions that you have I'm happy to answer yeah I was just looking back over my notes and this work is uh uh going to be done done completed during Lake draw down right and that's part the the Beals might be able to provide an update I think they were imminently going to be signing um signing brought up to do the work which I think he's proposing to do in January um we currently at Le truthfully I haven't been Hickory Hills and observe that uh but on the Lake Shirley end of things there's an exceptionally good draw down this year um so there is uh we're really in a good position here so we'd like to strike while the Iron's hot and get get get things going here the next week or two if if possible shirle almost looks like it's been vacuumed out yeah yeah hey it took us five minutes figure out how to how to unmute do you want or no uh I don't think unless there's any questions directly for do you have I guess the only question I have uh John is is the plan still to have bread in there you know early January that's correct okay I think was going to attend this meeting but he's stuck in Connecticut understood yeah but yeah during draw down um in January um if uh if everything gets approved um yeah that's consistent with my memory as well uh one thing though that I did want to bring up uh when I was out there I had observed um you know and we had talked about some of the uh you know previous uh erosion that had happened and it looks like there's a lot of sand that kind of had washed over the existing wall um that sand should be pulled back up onto the shore and out of the lake bed um so I would be looking for you guys to uh take that corrective action while you're doing this work uh okay we can talk to Brad and make sure he does that any specifications on how much sand no okay just a good faith effort yes okay uh any other uh questions or comments from members of the commission okay uh so the uh the conditions that we definitely want to ensure highlighted is uh it must be completed during Lake draw down and then uh the applicant needs to uh bring the sand that's on the lake bed back up onto the shore um I'm looking for a uh a motion to approve the uh Amendment so move second second thank you Mike thank you Chris roll call vote Jenny I Chris I Mike I and I for myself thank you very much thank you appreciate it thank you okay moving along certificate of compliance for 57 round Road uh Sophia did you have an opportunity to go out there um so this one we are previously discussed um at the last meeting and it was decided to continue it um because DPW I was in correspondence with DPW um and they had some concerns they were going to do some work on the like crushed pipe um and so I reached back out to just to confirm that I understood correctly as to what what their uh suggestion was going to be and essentially they they don't advise removing um all of the pavement in general um they will be so they removed part of the pavement I'm assuming um it's probably done by now um that small section and replaced it with gravel or will be replaced with gravel while they don't have access to the asphalt because it's not asphalt season um and then in the spring they will pour asphalt over that patched area um but there is no plan to for the DPW to go ahead and you know um tear up the entire Peete uh area that was shown the plan to be removed so at this point they the applicant should be submitting a revised plan if they don't plan on restoring that area to loom and Seed that's what I believe is uh should happen as well um you know and I'm happy for them to site the uh DPW recommendation um and letter as well so my understanding though from a matter of uh process is that uh that uh when we receive uh request for certificate of compliance we should uh hear it right and if we can't um approve it we should reject it and cite the cite the reason so uh in this particular case and I actually thought we had uh voted last time to reject it and then uh ask for clarification from um bill but I think procedurally uh we should reject it and um cite the reason is that they needed to uh submit a uh a change notice uh to us that sounds like the proper yeah that sounds like the proper course of action um I did attempt to to get more detail out of uh the DPW um as to their plan and you know timing but I guess their their Staffing and the way that they work is very kind of opportunistic um so I guess we'll see if we get more hopefully more detail on what their plan would be and why they don't think that it's possible or or why they don't advise doing that okay um so at the very least we need to uh it sounds like we need reject it tonight um and uh tell the applicant that they need to submit a change of notice and in parallel Sophia you'll uh see if you can get a date out of DPW or some type of time estimate is the applicant in a hurry because they uh they're uh noi is uh expiring or they're getting ready to sell the property or something not to my knowledge okay I mean I I don't um I have no issue with the practice I would think if they're done with everything that they think they can do that it's a best practice go ahead and ask for the certificate of compliance um but uh yeah I just I just was mostly asking for the benefit of the commission to understand if there's something that's putting pressure on the schedule here okay I think I'm looking for a motion to uh reject uh this so moved thank you Mike second thank you Jenny roll call vote Chris hi Mike I Jenny hi I for myself okay thank you moving along uh violations uh Sophia uh what do we have discuss there 10 Mass have um I sent out a um a fine a fine notice um and I got a return receipt signed by somebody I know it wasn't the the owner of the establishment but it was signed and now they have up until I believe 21 days to make that that payment or take next steps and in action they should be paying the fine attending a meeting um you know being active at some degree by this point but I really all we want right now is for them to file an noi with us and d and they haven't done that still okay so they need to pay the fine and take action both right that's right okay um and uh have you been back there or is there erosion protection um still in place yeah it's still there there's no major concerns with the erosion control there okay um I didn't see any additional siment that was a couple I think a few weeks ago okay okay very good thank you any other updates um up Mary oh sorry Greg yeah Madam chair I'm here with Dominic uh for to to just briefly discuss a status update on the enforcement for 828 Lancaster a I I got to stick with you longer but I thought maybe if you were willing to take that of course I uh I am definitely uh willing to do that I'm glad you spoke up thank you yeah uh with your permission I'll just give you a quick summary here okay um uh I've been Dillon Roy has been retained by watus Investments Dominic is representing watus Investments here um they um I'll say immediately uh engaged our firm after receiving uh the correspondence from the town um they also um and they engaged our firm on a couple of fronts uh one was relative to some issues with the building department which we're resolving uh under not under your purview um but uh one is to prepare and file a notice of intent uh for the work that has been done uh within the buffer zone that is essentially associated with the renovation of the house and you know quite frankly the cleanup of the property I think um a lot of you know the property it's been um in uh disrepair for a while um so I think in the um in the haste of getting things cleaned up there that was work done within the buffer zone um they immediately retained our firm uh we are working matter of fact I should be filing a notice of intent tomorrow I have uh I have things sort of uploaded on the various portals I just haven't hit the send button yet um for the restoration work uh that will be required for the work that that's been done in the buffer um I will say that um the applicant also immediately or as quickly as possible um installed a complete uh perimeter um erosion control barrier which uh consists of Stak down straw wad and silt fence which wraps the entire property all the way around on the on the Wetland side as well as the uh the rear up even the upgrading sides and the Lancaster a side um I didn't expect that it does appear to be in order um you're going to get a plan from my office that shows the location of that along with the location of the areas that were Disturbed um in specifications uh for um for restoration I will say that none there was no work performed Within in 30 ft of a wetland So within your 30 foot no disturb Zone my my plan will document that um and there was no there are no there's been no structures uh created within the buffer zone and certainly not within the 50 Foot uh uh no uh no build Zone um so all of the work that was done uh which again was really associated with uh with cleaning of the property removing debris and and things and and sort of smoothing out the the area um no tree removal uh that I can see uh within the buffer zone was done uh no significant vegetation removal so um I just want to give you that update I wanted to tell you that the um the applicant um or the the owner um has been responsive um the only reason you haven't gotten a filing so far is not due to his lack of responsiveness it's due to his uh engineer being pretty busy um but we are trying to get that uh moved to the top of our stack and you should have filing um certainly by the end of the week so that's it just want to give you the update okay thank you for that um uh questions or comments from members of commission okay and I'm not seeing any uh yes Mike um sorry I'm not as quick on the raise the hand that's okay yes just curious has anyone gone to see this property has Sophia gone or has the commission gone I think Sophia has been out there I personally have not but Sophia has been out there do we have a photograph or is that will that come later sopia I have pictures seems like we have a request for pictures again you are going to get a chance to review this in detail once we file the notice but happy to happy to show them now just one moment so Sophia why don't you narrate us through these photos so that we're kind of um R into you know what you're looking at in the context of the property and whatnot so this side that's all soil and and Phil um that would be uh the property owner and then um basically where these little uh Stakes are with the flagging those represent the property line I believe um and correct then slightly over that little Hill which there should be another photo coming up is the silt fence um installed in the straw Waddles this is just a detail as to what what kind of contents were dumped on the property um it it really looked like kind of like a landfill mixed with with soil and rocks and various debris right here you can see where the erosion control is this is just a side profile as well again here's the the stake that indicates the property line all that all that fill was all the fill that was existing on site um when we took down the big barn attached to it you have to dig up up under the concrete slab to remove that and I knew that I was placing another garage right in that same location a detach one so I dispersed some of the material there um nothing of course was dirty I am planning on putting fresh lone down over it in the springtime but yeah yeah and you're going to see specifications for this on the no plan so I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves here because we are going to be propos in a solution for this it sound like the fill you're seeing it wasn't brought in from the site it was all um you know material that was that has been on site thanks for that clarification yep um well upon top of the um soil and I guess you could say debris from the site itself there was freshly poured concrete um I know that's pretty common to see on construction sites where they just dump the the concrete there um that's kind of you can see like this area right here is basically the edge of um the Wetland that was um that's not the Wetland just to be clear that's we're not anywhere near the Wetland there we're at least 30 fet away this isn't within the buffer zone at all with the buffer but not near the it's 30 ft from the Wetland I want to be clear about that at least so it's within the buffer zone of the Wetland um but this is basically where it is it's encroaching on the on the the buffer zone it's in the buffer yeah um and here's just a different angle of that I guess to better depict it and another angle there's uh one of the main roads again is the property stake this is looking back at the property from the road very good and that was one of the oil issues that I encountered that has been addressed okay yeah it's one of those troubling pieces I think we're probably all familiar with with the with the house so um we've all probably been driving by it for decades um so um the the applicants um Dominic and his team um are are really trying to uh bring some life back into the property so um we understand that there's some work that was done that that should have been permitted uh and we're going to correct that uh through the filing of notice of intent so um there'll be lot there'll be more discussion on this and we will we'll be addressing um all of those points in our plan and filing thank you Greg um Mike any more comments no that was great uh thank you for the overview I appreciate it and thank you Sophia for the pictures thank you um I'm not seeing any more uh Commissioners with their hands raised so thank you for that update uh Dominic and Greg I appreciate it thanks for taking us out of order appreciate it yeah no worries yeah I I take full ownership of course for what I did and I actually live on a pond so I'm familiar with conservation I did not know but I'm here to do whatever I can to make it right all right appr saying that to be fair uh we're working with with Mr Violet who owns the property next door um you have a filing for that project as well to make is really really interesting uh and we actually delineated the wetlands that you saw one of the blue flags that Sophie had in her picture we did that in the beginning of the summer uh but the flags had fallen down and gotten down into the nap of the earth and you truly couldn't see it to the point where Steve said did you guys even do this and so it just they just weren't visible and if you look after a dry summer um you just it just doesn't look that much the Wetland area doesn't look much different than the up the Upland area so you can easily see how this was done um I think it was an honest mistake um I think that the spirit of of things here as I've been saying is to clean up the property not to make not to uh not to degrade Wetlands um so we'll we'll get it fixed uh you'll see a plan shortly all right thank you okay uh Sophia do we have updates on uh any of the other uh violations on our tracking list um 4 Fire Road 12 I had a discussion with Jenny about that I was going to take action um and issue fines um based on the facts that I had and uh chronological um discussions that we've had um over the months and it was kind of drawn to my attention that maybe there could be another way to go about that part that's missing um that is outstanding from the um orders of conditions that they haven't um addressed yet and that would be uh installation of either sinage or barricades of some sort on that property distinguishing um the town owned property now the question in itself was how can the commission hold someone responsible for Town property um at that level would this be a police matter would that be more fitting for this type of issue um so I am open to further discussion on that so um so jedy and I did walk out on that property this weekend and uh so uh one thing that that I was not aware of until I was out on that property is one of the residents still has piles of stuff within the buffer zone on the town property so it looked like you know at least a quart of wood if not more uh maybe a couple of uh constru construction pallets that look like the types of pallets that maybe uh pavers or blue stones arrive on and then it looked like I don't know maybe some kind of sink uh so all of that stuff had been moved out of the immediate area that had been loaned and seated but was still immediately adjacent to it in the um buffer zone um and then uh between the area that had been looned and seated uh and the uh stump Cove there was uh another pile um kind of a line of debris if you will that looked like I don't know like uh pieces of 10 or uh thin stone or other uh thin construction material that looked like it had been laid out kind of in a pathway that led to a place where someone was dumping their grass um so in my opinion they haven't uh actually complied with the order of conditions until that all that material is removed so it's a little bit bigger than just the barrier uh that we thought it was last time we we met um Jenny do you want to add any other comments or you know if you have a difference of opinion certainly would love to hear your perspective on this I think that sums it up um that of what we saw while we were there and yeah that's that's really all I have to add to it I'm wondering if you know well when I was in the office talking to Sophie about this and we were think talking about the fact that it's really town-owned property and which made it a little bit complicated but the fact that they're dumping things into they it looks like they have a pathway where they're actually putting their brush and their grass clippings into a wetland that's owned by the town would that make it a police matter or what would it seems like that would something we could act on yes it seems seems like it seems like it would uh make it a police manner so maybe that should be our next step Sophie so bring it to the um Police Department's attention I actually recommend that you uh talk to Chris Riley about it if you've not already um have you I don't believe on this specific topic no I don't think he's up to date on this I I I think we should talk to Chris right and get the uh benefit of his guidance on that uh you know and I think but you should also explore are there you know are there other other means of uh resolution here for the town um and I this may end up in litigation uh so I don't want to uh overp on matters that might end up in litigation I want to say strictly to the Conservation Commission jurisdictional um uh comments and uh for certain the the uh violations in the buffer zone have not been fully corrected uh we did speak you know we attempted to speak to both residents one resident um you know it first said oh no that's not my stuff and then he said that is my stuff and said he would remove it um although he's been given three years to remove it as far as I can tell uh the other resident um was very amable to talking to me and Jenny and went through a chronological history um that uh certainly sounded reasonable and made a lot of sense um and that Resident has actually uh forked out all of the money uh so far to do the loan and seating because he said listen you know uh if we did something wrong we did something wrong I just want to get it fixed I don't want to have a problem with the town he said I've asked the um you know my neighbor to pay he said he would uh he hasn't done so yet he said but I do believe that he will but in my opinion you know kudos to that person for just trying to go ahead and uh take the lead on resolving uh the conflict um and uh that Resident had a uh vehicle on parked in the area we told him you're not allowed to park in the area he said it was just there because of the snow I understand I'll remove it on the day we were there there was not snow there anymore um but uh he did say that he would remove it uh promptly and understood he was not supposed to be parking there um anyway that's uh yeah I think I think we should probably yeah Sophia I think you should probably talk to uh Chris and get Chris's guidance on how to navigate this issue through the town um certainly I'd be glad to you know uh schedule a call with you and Chris uh if we can schedule you know time for me to come up and talk to you both I'd be happy to do that um but uh yeah that's that's what I think the next steps are on this particular um topic I I would I would like to get the um violations corrected and and then um you know uh if we can allow the town to figure out how to resolve uh the rest of the open uh open conditions in in a manner that uh works well for them and get us out of the middle of this uh if we can um do that okay um I'll try to set something up between the three of us I'm sure virtual would work better for you uh yeah it would yeah it would unless it's uh early in the morning okay uh I turn into a pumpkin when California logs on um okay uh Mike you had your hand up and then it went down yes I was just concerned uh and it sounds like you probably have this already squared away uh the um it looks like the owners know that they're parking incorrectly and my question was um is are there signs saying that this belongs to the town of Lunenburg is there no okay um that was just a suggestion do we do that on occasion is to I think that's up to the town to do to be honest with you I mean just my opinion uh now the order of conditions uh that was negotiated with the town uh was to put up some type of barrier and I I do think that's appropriate because this space invites people to park there it's flat it's ajacent to the road um and I think that uh it should have some type of physical barri to um inhibit people from parking there uh but I also don't who has to do it I don't have a dog in that fight you know uh it's uh we speak to the Wetland protection act and we speak to the owners of the parcels to enforce the the regulations uphold the regulations right in this case we're somehow in between the and uh encroachers okay and I'm interested in getting us out of the middle as fast as we can be um but there are certainly obvious grievances there uh between the town um and the abutters understood thank you okay thank you Sophie uh any other updates um do we uh were you able to contact the owners of 1168 massav and are they um planning to come to a meeting do we know let's see I sent a letter to attend this meeting um I don't know if they received it in time but I did send a letter okay I can't see the land from the road no no yeah you wouldn't be aware of it unless you had access to near map oh yeah I did review that and it's pretty drastic um but like physically going out there I I need permission and correct yeah um so I guess well we'll uh I don't see anybody here for that no I don't either um so we'll bump that to uh the next meeting and uh hope that the uh partial owners uh have the wherewithal to join us okay um 950 Chase Road that was the still the shed removal discussion I vaguely remember us emailing back and forth and I think you might have got I sent an email to the um I sent an email to the chair of the uh select board so this one we're just going to keep as tracking uh the select board's going to have to uh entertain uh if they want to take additional steps or not okay so just leave that on for until that's resolved yeah okay um nothing on 40 meow um if you don't have any other oh go ahead yes I was just gonna say 67 Island Road I'll remove that for the next um meeting as they did submit their application okay thank you and that's it for violations okay very good okay we're going to move along to new business and um I'm going to go out of order here uh actually I'm going to move into the rest of the um I'm not going to move into new business I'm actually going to go out to order and go to um uh Grant update because uh we do have some updates um from Greg uh who's been working on uh our uh our lunenberg um RTP 2023 uh Grant um so Greg uh you w to give us an update tell us where you are yeah you bet um Greg Roy dson Roy I'm representing the lunenberg Conservation Commission thank for the opportunity uh can I share my screen I'm assuming okay so um there were really four Grants awarded but three you know on three conservation areas um one was Table Rock um the second one was raino and the third one was cowy um I'm here tonight to I was um instructed to prioritize Table Rock by Bob peas um so I'm here tonight to um show you a progress on that uh but I do want to say that the others are in progress um we've surveyed the raino property um and we'll be bringing that plan to something that looks more like this level uh in the next you know several weeks um I actually don't think we actually may be able to get a parking lot in the raino property without any uh without any buffer zone impacts believe it or not or Min on so I may not even need to file with your board it may just be a planning board filing in that case um and then cowry I think you may be discussing that later there's some additional work um and I'm happy to app on that uh when the time comes but for now I just wanted to briefly show you where we're at with the um with the Table Rock uh property the plan is right is here in front of you uh North Field Road is uh right here along the bottom of the page um over here um kind of in the area the Locust map this is the golf course property um and so this um this area right here is the wooded area between uh Stage Coach which is somewhere over here on the where the erosion control barrier details are and um uh and we're right in that in that wooded area uh between those two um between the golf of course and Stage Coach and it was our um instruction to um get a parking area here um and so um in this case the um could you zoom in just a little bit um you bet I can yeah sorry okay great thank you so um there is a wetland system and it's it's shown in do hatch here it's a little bit difficult but essentially the entire Frontage um all the way up to Stage Co Road effectively is um is wetland uh resource area um so there's really no uh alternative but to cross the Wetland um and and do a um a wetland fil to get a you know to get a parking area on the Upland portion of the property uh which is on the uh the the uh Northerly side um of the of the Wetland system in this case the wetlands were delineated by others um by uh Matt I think did it yeah Matt delineated these we actually went out and verified them um as part of this work uh refresh the flags because they had been done some time ago um and I we actually hung the uh the B series flag which is along the uh in adjacent to the road on that the road side um just to Define that edge so um and then we did a pretty detailed survey um we of course located the road we located the Wetland Flags um and then um in this case I just had the crew locate all of the significant trees in the area so all of these green dots that you see are all the green blobs are all of the of the Trees of significant size and um and then the other thing we located if you're familiar with this area is uh there's a lot of very large uh boulders uh surface Boulders if you will uh particularly as you go across the Wetland uh these these round uh circles are indicated of the location of those large um significant stones that are going to be um or Boulders that are going to be um costly to move would be a an understatement um so we located those because they really they really do Drive our our solution here um so we're proposing a uh driveway Crossing um of the Wetland the red hatched area uh is the limit of what the Wetland fill would be to achieve the Wetland Crossing um we chose this area because in spite of the fact that we're uh removing uh I think five trees it seemed to us the least amount of overstory clearing um that would be required to get across the Wetland um we initially thought about doing it in the shortest possible um location across the wetlands there's really two logistical issues with that one is we'd be removing some pretty significant overstory um some 16inch 18inch Maples and there's a big 24inch Oak here um that would be in Jeopardy um that kind of would would would really be too close to a driveway from a sight distance stand Point um and uh the location of these Boulders really made it kind of difficult um with uh from a constructibility standpoint so for a modest amount of increase 100 or 200 square feet of increase uh Wetland fill still under the 5,000 mind you so we're still within the uh parameters of the wetlands protection act um we thought that this would be the best location uh for it because it it allows us to go around these really large Boulders keep those in place essentially um and Min we we believe minimize the tree removal that would be required for the crossing um we would be installing um you know limiting the uh width of this by using retaining walls on both sides of the driveway and just constructing this of minimum width a 12 in uh a 12 in uh a 12T uh drivable gravel surface is what we're proposing um and that we would we would maintain that with essentially through the Wetland and all the way through the 30 foot um no disturbance zone so we'd be we were looking to minimize work within within both the wetlands but also in your 30 foot local locally jurisdictional um area um and then when we get outside the 30 foot is this this first orange arc when we get outside of that that's when we will sort of flare out the erosion control if you will um and emerge into the uh the parking area um which is which is back in here um we're showing 10 gravel spaces we weren't exactly sure how many spaces we were to do uh we thought 10 was a reasonable number um you may you may opt for Less um I guess I'd suggest if you're on the fence with that and we're going out for bids Let's uh let's go let's go out to bid with more and then we can always reduce if we have a cost cost implication you know if you get grant money uh and it comes in and and the bids come in too high you that's one option you have for for that um so this this sorry I'll try not to talk too much but um this um this project would not be afforded an exemption from the storm water management um policy uh so we do need to comply with Massachusetts storm water management policy because it's not a residential project of four or fewer Lots so um we have um designed a storm water management area that's outside of the 50 Foot because we are proposing to do storm water infiltration uh one of the performance standards for for that is um you have to be at least 50 ft from a from a wetland area um we'd be effectively sloping the parking area and directing it towards that BMP uh where it would infiltrate and then any larger storm vents would overflow um and then the only other thing that we the only other component to this would be um we need to replicate the Wetland of uh the loss of wetlands for the the permanent crossing of the driveway and we're proposing to do that uh just upgradient of the um I guess it's upgradient but in this location here um and um we'd be replicating at a 1.5 to one ratio um uh of you know if we'd be filling a th Square fet we're replicating 1,700 effectively as what we're proposing on this plan um and I won't go into detail but we've also this whole entire second sheet effectively almost all of it is relative to specifications on the replication to document compliance with the Massachusetts replication manual and guidelines so there's um all the required planting and um um seating soil preparation um oversight monitoring um you know specifications on um erosion control specific the erosion control that needs to be done specific for these type of replication areas and the like um so purpose of coming tonight was really just to give you a progress update and make sure I'm on the right track um you're going to see this and you're going to get to review this and punch holes in it when I file a formal notice of intent um and it's also going to be reviewed by the planning board because um parking parking um uh parking lots of five or more I think it is or or actually might even be lower threshold it might be modifications of parking or I can't remember we we determined that in our scope of work is to bring this before planning board for site plan approval so there'll be another layer uh with planning board on this on this as well so um that's all uh happy to take any initial comments that you have or questions that's great uh Greg thank you um and uh we had we had uh discussed this being a larger uh parking parking lot uh and 10 I think is the right number to be shooting for um so I'm really happy to see all of that uh it's a really interesting uh parcel uh it's good for a lot of different types of uh Trail usage so I I could see if there's parking there that uh that could uh we could see on occasion that being filled up um but uh yeah I think I think this looks great um Chris you're saying something about there being four Lots or more did you mean four parking spaces can you get me up to no no sorry I was that was probably confusing so um if you have a project this isn't one of them but if you have a project that proposes four residential housing lots or less you don't have to comply your exemp from storm water management but that's the only time that you're exempt from storm water management oh or a single family two two lots three lots or four Lots okay any other project regardless of how small or minor it is okay requires compliance with Massachusetts storm water management so that that's why we have to comply sorry for the confusion on that no worries thank you yeah any other questions or comments on uh that plan okay uh thank you Greg uh okay well um we'll be advancing this um to you know permit level uh submittal uh status and and you'll be seeing a filing um on this um relatively soon um we we are going to need signatures um who on the applications who should do that who should I send that to for signature I suppose me okay so that that'll be for the form three and also for the planning board um application so I'll send that uh along once those are ready to go okay very good um so the other the other thing relative to the grants that uh Bob sent to me and Bob's been running um a lot of point on this since we got the uh Grant uh actually approved if is uh a request for 5500 uh to add Wetland delineation and lot line staking uh for the project that had uh under this grant that had been uh scoped in the calry uh Harley area um and I think Bob had hoped he could uh get uh you know someone to do a uh a wetland deline ation for us graus and it seems like that's not not to be and then in thinking through over in the um cry uh Harley area uh where we wanted to add a uh you know uh connection Bridge uh to an existing kind of uh cart path around it gets close to some existing lot lines and we want to make certain that whatever we're doing over there is not encouraging people to trespass so the lot line staking I think also makes sense um anything that you would want to add about that uh Greg any other context no that that's right I guess I just wanted to make sure that I guess for your benefit but also for the public anybody watching the uh the change order requests weren't my idea so um yeah the uh you know two requests that Mary summarized one was you know originally we were asked not to include wetland lineation in our scope work because it was going to be done by others so we didn't it's you know we're ready now to go out and do the surveying and I walked it with my my survey Crew Chief and the wetlands the wetlands weren't delineated so I talked to Bob asked him what he wanted us to do and he asked me to provide a cost to do that so we're so that's the first thing uh first part of it the second thing is that Bob asked us just as Mary said to Mark um the property lines on that on that far side on the opposite side of the mulus brook uh from the um from the the observation platform and that we didn't have any property line work really in our initial scope of work um so that's just anytime we put a stake in the ground you know it takes it takes our survey Department a little bit extra time to do the research and Recon and things that's required so try to keep that as as minimum as we can for you um but I appreciate that's that's the reason for the for the ad yeah not not because it's not because the Project's over budget we haven't started anything yet it's just because the that there was some additional items that weren't in our original scope yeah exactly and and the history is exactly as you had uh you know articulated there so had not been our original ask um you know in the RFP so yeah um all right do we have any questions or concerns about uh about that uh additive for because I am going to ask for a vote to approve that additional 5500 and we do have that bandwidth within the RTP Grant um to accommodate uh that overage uh I had anticipated a few things here and there so I think I'm looking for a motion to approve 5500 uh additional for wetland delineation and lot line staking uh associated with the cry Harley um RTP 2023 Grant so moved oh and I guess the thing that I need to say for the benefit of our office staff is that that would be proposed to come out of our um Timber uh rights fund as well okay and I had a uh Chris gave me the uh motion and Mike gave me the second uh I have it to have it backwards okay must be after nine o'clock um yeah so roll call vote Jenny hi Chris hi Mike I and I for myself okay thank you I think I'm done you're you're free of me all right thank you Greg thanks for your hard work on this happy holidays everybody we'll see you yeah same to you okay uh now going circling back to uh new business um one uh one item uh that actually just got recirculated uh this week that I wanted to bring up to everybody is I had been uh contacted by uh Mr Albert AAL uh who is with the uh nrcs uh which is the actually on behalf of the American uh Farmland trust I think nrcs is federal program that's natural resource conservation um anyway uh primarily though on behalf of the American Farmland trust and uh What uh Mr ail uh was highlighting to the town so he contacted me he also contacted uh the town agricultural commission um as well as the select board I had looped in um the uh open space Planning Commission uh or committee and was going to talk to them last meeting but we didn't have a quorum so we couldn't talk uh and so what Mr AAL was identifying is an opportunity uh that's free of cost to the towns is for him to come in and uh identify land Farmland of local importance so through Federal programs uh there's already been a uh classification at Federal in state a classification of uh Prime Farmland unique Farmland um Farmland of Statewide importance that's all based on soil surveys uh this uh those regulations also allow for a classification of Farmland of local um importance and uh that has to actually be done by the municipality but through this grant uh we can have that done for free uh and the only thing uh that the town has to do is actually endorse um and ratify the findings of the uh soil scientists that's doing that work which would be Mr ail um under this uh American Farmland trust um he said in the majority of towns that he's um working with in Massachusetts it's actually a Conservation Commission that uh offers to sign um those uh those reports and findings um he said in some towns you know if they have a really strong agricultural commission uh the agricultural commission might get involved but more often than not as Conservation Commission um this has been circulated to uh to the Commissioners uh and I don't know if anybody's had time to read it uh Mr ail spent about an hour with me on the phone last night uh going over this I don't really see any downside um the upside is that uh if we have any Farmers that are sitting on Parcels that they're not able to get into an agricultural uh abatement program because they don't meet the 50% um Farmland uh soil criteria uh this might actually get them the extra little bit of designation um that allows them to meet that uh 50% uh threshold and be able to actually f file for a farm abatement it doesn't it doesn't Force any partial owner uh to put their uh land in um agricultural abatement uh it just opens doors for our Farmers that might otherwise be blocked uh due to uh um the previous uh State and uh state and federal uh classifications um any questions about it so what I was going to ask for tonight is um that you guys uh would be willing to endorse me for um providing that uh signatory um as long as uh we have no opposition from the select board open space um Planning Commission and uh it's not a commission it's committee and the uh agricultural commission I certainly don't want to get in anybody's way uh but it does seem like it's a a good program uh it's a benefit we get it bring benefit to the town for free which I'm all on board for um so uh would you guys be willing to endorse that yes I support you Jenny what are your thoughts I would support it okay very good okay so I'm not going to ask for a formal vote right now but with your uh with your verbal endorsement I'll reach out to um those uh peer uh commissions and committee and uh make certain there are no obstacles and as long as they confirm uh then I would come back to you and ask for a formal vote thank you thank you for that uh the conservation budget report uh has been uploaded to the uh share drive is it in the current meeting folder um Sophia or is it a different folder yes it should be in that folder um maybe folder within that one let's see okay and what um what I've asked of of the office is to upload that monthly it seems like the report comes on the 15th Sophia if I recall correctly um of every month that's right and for them to just upload a copy of that report to the share drive so that we have access to it Chris Mary regarding the um U previously discussed um paint stewardship that I talked about at beginning of the meeting you asked any action and um I stand corrected the um Town manager asked us to discuss discuss it and forward a recommendation to the select board on the subject matter so I don't know if we okay vote um but I think that would be the protocol I'm not sure okay uh so uh why don't we do this um Chris uh so so let's close out on the budget thing first and then come back to the paint Ste stewardship yeah thank you Okay Sophia um yeah it's it would be the plan now is to have the um budget uh uploaded on the 15th to the share drive under the current folders uh well roughly the 15th okay sometimes she sends it not on that exact date because last time it was uh the 15th it was a Sunday okay yeah 15th or the next business day okay so then we'll we'll have that and I'll have this line item if anybody looks at that um budget report and has questions but um unless we do have questions I'm not planning on stopping there every uh every meeting okay I'll keep it as a an open item open Agenda Tickler and then the paint stewardship um Chris I've not had time to look at it but I do have a break coming up and I would like to look at it uh before I take action um one way or the other on it uh it does on the surface sound like a good program so we all have we all have the email so I encourage everybody all our um Commissioners to read the documentation um there is a charge I believe it's a dollar um when they people bring in paints but there's a lot of documentation in there please read it and then maybe um on the next meeting we can decide if we want to recommend it to the board okay yeah I think that's a good uh plan of attack okay and then the permit extension act I think um and Sophie you may be closer to this than me I think you had forwarded something um from the state that all permits are are automatically granted to 2-year extension is that correct that's right excluding enforcements excluding enforcements okay okay so does that um does that mean the ooc that we had issued for 40 Fire Road 12 as an example would be extended or since that one was uh an enforcement that one would not be extended well it started as an enforcement right and then it and then it was considered an order of conditions um maybe that's worth getting a clarification on J yeah I need to read through the whole entire article it's very lengthy maybe there's more on that Jenny has her hand up maybe she's uh read in that level of detail so I did read it and it said it does not not apply to enforcements um specifically I have to pull it back up again but I actually I read it like two hours guess my question is uh my question is does it apply to um doas or O's that are result of that are actually a corrective action as a result of an enforcement um so it does say that it applies to orders so I think that because it's an order but then I would let Sophie get clarification on that okay yeah I'm leaning towards because it's in order it still Falls within that that time period in that extension um but I can see where you would question that um kind of gray area okay so I'll let you read that and uh and uh in detail and uh maybe give us a better you know at least your more a better informed opinion on that um I also uh just again want to I made this announcement at the beginning of the of the uh meeting um in January our schedule is different uh the 8th the 22nd and 29th 29th now Shirley like Shirley has said they want to give us a report and they've confirmed the 29th as well um so I'm I'm hopeful we can uh you know fill the Quorum uh and get those lengthy uh Lake reports um out of the way and not on top of our regular uh Cadence of business uh no update on title searches April Earth Day events um um I've already reached out to the uh parks department and asked them if they wanted to participate with us this year I'm hopeful that we can uh uh you know kick off April Earth Day events um series of uh volunteer activities in April around our conservation uh properties similar to what we have done in the past Madam chair yeah Mike um maybe I'm confused here do the library participate in this event or is that Arbor Day they have participated and they certainly are welcome to participate um yeah uh that's a good point I'll reach out to them and see if they want to participate thank you I mean the the nice thing about it is if we do have if we do have you know um any any part of the town uh buildings or organizations within the town that want to participate uh either from a doing the volunteer work or put their kind of you know list of projects on the list we do tend to get you know at least a handful of volunteers that uh show up uh each one of those schedule days and say Hey What Can I Do um so it's it's really nice to be able to uh pull a group of people together like that accomplish um some volunteer work in town and I can connect with the pollinator Habitat to see if they have any plans that would be that would be wonderful yeah to see if there's anything um you know that uh last year I think they didn't want to because they they wanted to leave all the beds dormant um until the pollinators that emerged yes but I mean we I am trying to raise the awareness earlier uh so there may be some other things that you know could happen out in that uh parcel um and do we have a date it will be uh it's usually every weekend in April we try to have something scheduled every weekend in April okay every weekend day in April is a fair game and we do try to as things come in and get scheduled not to schedule on top of other events uh just so we don't have you know one event um you know competing uh for the same pool of volunteers with another event um but it's it's a nice problem to have it is I will reach out to the pollinator habitat volunteers to see what yeah that' be great um what their plans are to let them know that we're trying to um do something either together or uh and now we've set aside these days in April these weekends and to see if they wanted to do something um to parti participate with us yeah that'd be great Okay Sophia um I just had a question for Mike about the the pollinator habitat area um it seems like he's the one that knows the most about it I would say that's a fair assessment um a what are the boxes that are hung up they're very adorable and they have bees on them however they're empty um there are some bat houses you don't mean those you mean other um yes they look they have doors and you can open them it's not in the garden it's kind of um you park ah no I I don't have a photo of them exactly when you it's basically between the parking lot and walking through that area that links the parking area to the pollinator have towards the left okay uh because there was a little Library you don't mean the library box that has books you mean further down that pathway um they might be that there weren't any books in them but there were a couple shelves and there's bees painted on them okay I believe that is the library and because of it's winter uh they probably remove the books but when spring arrives there will be all kinds of books on bees and or butterflies and literature so that's what I believe that box is there for and okay all right thanks I was curious I was doing a um running through a um CR with North County Land Trust recently and okay those stood out and then the other thing is is there were piles of trash bags with they looked like there was um like cuttings from plants or I believe that some of the invasives and uh I will give a call to Bill Bernard uh he usually sends his crew down to take those away and dispose of them but that's what those are okay um that's that's all okay I will give Bill a call and see if he won't take those away and he usually is very good about doing that um all right thanks just as a clarification for me uh the removal of the trash bags is that actually a corrective action defined by the CR or is was that more of a curiosity question um Sophie um a little bit of both I noticed them and um Emily wrote down um that it would be kind of a corrective action once she writes up the report so I'm just kind of getting a head start on that okay fair enough okay very good moving along um do we have any chapter uh chapter 61 open go workflow chapter 61 open go workflow uh uh what is that uh Sophia op of workflow I know what it is but I associated with chapter 61 I'm unclear uh I think you actually brought this to my attention as like an another oh yeah you're right that's my fault that's my bad memory yeah so I had asked you to look at anything that had a chapter 61 um classification on it uh if there was a way to make it uh more visible in the open gov workflow right that's right okay well thank you for reminding me what I had asked you so um has that made any progress no it has not okay and are there opportunities for it Mak some progress in the future um I I certainly hope so um right now it's still a matter of prioritizing um staying with sticking within the statutory deadlines and timelines that I'm trying to keep up with um but I would like to to try to get that on uh up and running hopefully I don't know within the next few months um okay okay thank you thank you for that and uh for everybody else's benefit um so this was actually um an action that came out of uh open space planning uh committee uh dialogue uh one of the things that um the committee members had noted is that the town is uh losing a lot of time uh when it comes to uh any any partial that's coming out of chapter 61 the town has first right of refusal on purchase but we have 120 days to exercise that purchase which means that within 180 days or I'm sorry it's 120 days within 120 days of being notified uh we have to have purchased it and that means you have to go through all of the Committees that have jurisdiction and interest there get approval get funding um and actually uh you know finalize the deal and and that's almost impossible to do uh so even losing a week or two weeks of time uh really means that we've been losing some opportunities and in most cases um the opportunities that we've lost have uh been because you know we've lost two months of notification time because it just wasn't clear that what the applicants were doing was taking a partial out of chapter 61 and some of the things that um Adam has uh uh advised on is that uh when the uh parcel owner approaches you know approaches the first board about making improvements on land that has uh chapter 61 um abatement on it that that's that should be deemed a notification and that our time clock starts ticking that so as an example uh those properties down on Kilburn they had a uh chapter 61 um a batement on them and so when they first uh filed with us to uh do those improvements that was deemed a notification but I didn't realize that we had chapter 61 abatement on that um another example is uh 255 Sunny Hill Road uh the town and Theory had a first right of approval uh to of refusal to purchase that land um and we just missed the timeline by the time we figured out as a town that uh that was coming out as chapter 61 we had 30 days left so we have been looking at um you know opportunities to make it clearer uh that there was a chapter 61 protection on a parcel at the time they're reaching out and asking for a board to um review an improvement Chris in your opinion if we got notified as early as possible does does 120 days even give us the enough time to to get that done possible it's possible it's very short there's there's not a lot of time no um but it's possible es especially if you know there happen to be a board uh or commission that was sitting on uh a funded trust right that they could execute on quickly um there there are those opportunities there okay um moving along uh anything from hollish Road U Mike yes Madam chair I scheduled the heating system cleaning uh that was approved at the last meeting it's coming up on January 27th I've left word with um with Karin uh that that's going to happen um she has not responded so I'm going to give her another text just to let her know that that's happening and hope she received uh my message and um and I'm sure they're G you know they're going to come in the morning between 8 and 10 and it should be done within the hour once they arrive and uh we should be good for the winter season excellent very good okay and that's all I really have no updates on anything uh getting cabinets there were a couple of things uh Nick was looking at uh but I have not gotten a word that anything has materialized so uh we're still waiting for something to come up very good thank you Mike okay I don't have any updates on uh you know open space hasn't met uh we haven't been able to F the Quorum for a while um any updates from Storm waterers Jenny no no updates for me um I actually missed the last meeting oh okay and we're not meeting in January okay in December so okay very good um and if there are there any uh parting uh comments happy holidays yeah happy holidays to everybody thank you happy holiday I gets everybody to smile okay it is uh 9:46 and I am looking for a motion to adjourn so moved second Chris thank you Mike roll call vote Jenny hi Chris hi Mike hi and I for myself thank you everyone good night good night good night Merry Christmas Merry Christmas