for 45 minutes tonight so motion to adjourn recording in progress we canj at anytime we're good thank you all right good evening it is 70 2 p.m. on Wednesday March 20th and I'm calling the lunenberg finance committee meeting to order in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast over the lunenberg public access Channel and on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page the following information is provided for members of the public that would like to participate in the meeting remotely to participate remotely from a computer please use the link attached to the agenda which can be found on the town calendar on the town website from a telephone dial tollfree number 888 475 4499 and enter webinar ID 892 2688 7485 this agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law would you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all are there any announcements from the committee this evening you sure yeah I've got tonight I mean tomorrow night too it's true we'll be here again in 24 hours save a and have a 10-minute report uh the only announcement I have is that we are down to members for the evening uh Miss tarz and Miss Russell will not be join us so it's just the five of us for the evening um is there any public comment from the public I don't see any public this evening the school committe exactly we got off the hook love that picture of the empty room with Heather over in the corner hearing none is there any public comment from the committee nope um yeah I do have one comment and again you know it's on the fringes of is this really an issue or is this not an issue um but it was announced at this uh select board meeting last evening uh that a member of the public and then it was announced that it was a member of the finance committee had submitted a Citizens petition um in regards to an override with some dollar amounts for the talent side of the budget um I'm a bit concerned with it being connected to a member of this committee although it was a Citizens petition so in that realm it's appropriate but it was also submitted with no signatures and after the cutoff date so uh I just couldn't let that ride without at least being concerned that a member of this committee brought something forward in that manner okay thank you uh yeah I'm kind of sitting between two um but I I just felt it was worthy of being brought up and and I I think all of us as members know that we need to be careful as to what our actions are that could be construed as being brought forward as a member of this committee or uh speaking for the committee and I don't believe you know that is the fact but I'll leave it at that thank you thank you um the only comment comment I have for the evening is just to request that all members speak directly into the microphone this evening just for the viewing public and if if there's any issues just let us know and I'll happily remind myself as well all right moving on do we have a town manager report good evening good evening there hello so I don't know if everybody watched the slug boards meeting last night what else are we going to do um if you haven't these were some of the announcements that were made we currently have a few bids out right now one is for the fla Hill culbert project that is due on March 27th the bids for cleaning services for Town buildings is due April 4th and a proposal for data collection services for the assess ing department for cyclical inspections would be due April 8th and we received four responses to the request for qualifications for the owner's project manager services for Marshall Park those are currently being reviewed by The Parks Commission at their meeting tonight we have an updated natural gas contract that will go into effect um not for a while now November 30th 202 25 I worked with our energy broker to secure this new rate for our natural gas accounts this is both for Town and school and that rate would be um $566 in8 uh to the eth decimal point per decm 66 to the eth well so 5.66 eight oh okay to the 100 they were going out eight decimal places no um and that's a three-year locked in rate for that um it is an increase compared to what we we have right now for our natural gas rate which is $4.39 per decm um that rate will be like I said until November 30th 2025 but is a good rate looking at the market right now so this will give us also opportunity to plan for fiscal 26 going forward and Beyond so plenty of notice on that an update on the solid waste and recycling contract uh as we are approaching the end of our three-year contract with eel Harvey we requested a meeting with them to negotiate an extension of that contract and we did meet with them last Thursday unfortunately um to in order to extend that contract it was going to be a 7 % increase and essentially that came down to when they bid that original contract they were basing it in on 80 hours labor hours a week to do the roots and it's taking them 120 hours a week to do the roots so they're pretty much upside down in their labor cost and to make it profitable they would have to purchase new trucks um so that adds into the factor of um that exponential factor of why that inre increase be so we are going to approach this two ways we're we'll be putting it out to bid right away to see what we get for proposals um and then also working with eel Harvey looking to move to a cart totor system so what I'm sorry what a toor system meaning like the bins with the lids tote barrels yes so no more bags well it's it's done S no no possibly not um that system has worked for us and a lot of towns still use that you still purchase the bags that's how we get the incoming Revenue to to pay for the trash disposal cost so that's an easy way to take in the revenue and track it um so that's still an option so we'll be looking at different options sizes of toter the uh one that makes the most sense just on initial approach is a 65 gallon per trash and recycling um but that's all something we would look at different models speak with other communities see how their programs are working with a a cart system as well can we just sell a sticker every year a different color sticker versus cuz I hate those bags I'll tell you a sticker for the for the toer or even a sticker for the bag use my own bag and put a sticker on it pick them up and dump them automatically so oh but if we're going to the totter yes go to the to right right it's yeah that might be harder to to manage um as far as um it's easier for when the trash company they can see actually when they're because they have cameras and on the trucks they're seeing actual disposal into um into the truck if there's bags that aren't pay as throw but that's something we could look at a potential possibility did they give an indication as to why they were off by so much on their estimation I mean our town hasn't exactly earn in size for I think it um a number of factors when they bid the project it could um I wouldn't say this is entirely yet but there were some private roads um included in there that weren't like we received our list from castella of all the The Roots that's what was included so that might have a slight you know part to it but what we are finding is and other communities are finding trash haulers are pretty much forcing U moving to a cart system they it's too much too labor intensive um for their company ianes and not profitable to do two drive two people on a truck at all times mhm okay two people is definitely more efficient we do have um we had put a letter in in um February to per our contract terms U just to give notice that we'd like the extension and that's a 90-day extension beyond the June 30th so we do have our secure secured until the end of September so but we'll be using this time to um go to bed and look at the cart System model do they do the town buildings yes would it be possible to look at separating out the town buildings and bidding them separately if they had dumpsters we um this part of itemized list in the bid package is far is what type of um receptacle is at each building we're actually decreasing to we because we're finding we're not using um that large of a container at two of our buildings but are we using toter at the buildings or are we using dumpsters how you see dumpsters out there there different buildings are different yeah because there's a difference between picking up toter and then picking up dumpsters a lot of rubbish companies around here that can pick up a dumpster versus doing TOs and it w to be a cost savings and bidding out the town buildings that have dumpsters only and doing the toads for residential pickup separately we can talk offline but um when we looked at what what it cost for a subscription service it was I think three times the cost for a resident if not more so I think it was um if we looked at just our numbers for 4,000 PE pickups um it was 2.6 million versus 800,000 with the 70% cost increase wow yeah do we actually know how much they're picking up versus the amount of private well um that's something that is not tracked because anyone can put their recycling out yeah so um as far as bags we know how many bags we sell um but they are going to work with us to try to figure out how many stops they're actually doing um on each route as well have we seen any change in the amount of bags with selling no it's been consistent yes yeah have there window the contracts transition in other words the end of this present one and a new one would start so we have the 90day extension so we have them until end of September so it it would have expired June 30th right so from the funding point of view how are you going to cover that in the 2025 budget not knowing what that cost is going to be we're we're in the $300,000 range isn't it or is that just recycling right now it's an unknown um cost um until we get right now there's a 5% increase um in this so it all built into your proposed so we would um have to find out numbers for the the cart totor system to see what that impact is I mean the solid waste the trash disposal part would obviously mean an impact in bag fees costs because that offsets the trash disposal okay so so any increase that's not budgeted okay would be covered by the right the Enterprise right it'll be covered by the revenue from the bags right okay thank you welcome thank you I don't see Ezekiel so I think we're going to skip the finance director report um should be having a mon Tech presentation okay fair enough that works for us let's go right on to the Sewer Department good evening everybody hi thereo good evening do you have the presentation are you going to broadcast it right there just came up sorry I was half a second behind all right uh good evening uh my name is Brett ramsten um I want to thank this thank you for this opportunity to discuss our um fy2 sewer interprise budget my name is Brett ramsten I'm the vice chair of the Sewer Commission I have with me our business manager Paula Bertram and she's the one that put this budget together for us thank you Paula um in our current sewer team uh consists of John Reynolds our chairman uh myself as Vice chair David uh McDonald as clerk Michael KN as a member Michael Mackin as a member our staff includes the DPW director um William Bernard our business manager Paula Bertram um our assistant business manager uh camil Ferrera Camille Farah thank you uh and our our minutes um taker uh Jane rley and we also uh our um the company that takes care of the um sub system themselves is our um is Chad T MK LLC uh which is run by um Robert Lily our technician uh weits and clear the general manager um also in addition we'd like to um include the DPW superintendent Joe progan and uh and employees Jim sck stickerly and Jack Welch have been uh want to say they have been a tremendous help to the Sewer Department and assisting us on among other things including Superman holes um supervising jading and caming and um assisting in any emergencies that come along and it is greatly appreciated all the help we get from the lenberg DPW uh a little background the Sewer Commission was established in 2006 operates under the sewer Enterprise fund prior to 2006 uh the sewer was run under the select board um our system of our sewer system consists of 16 mil of gravity sanitary sewer 3.9 miles of forest Mains 2.3 Mi of low pressure sewers and 10 pumping stations um this our vendors are connected uh to the system ensure the system operates efficiently um the of inter uh intermunicipal agreements in place with fishburg and lemonster to treat our waste the commissioner was established in 2006 and as you know operates under the sore Enterprise fund the system is sorry some of this is a repeat yeah just focus on yes our current vendor is Chad TM key uh or CT and for our Wastewater disposal we have agreements with Fitchburg and Lemer IMA with Fitchburg was renegotiated in 2013 and our IMA for Lemer was also recently renegotiated some of our current issues our system is obviously an aging system and costs are increasing um and we'd really we'd like to review some of those current issues and concerns with you tonight um we have a significant infiltration and inflow which we call inii um inii uh the pump stations right the uh recent data indicates that the system has uh water entering the system from rain groundw um usage fees for lemonster and fishburg are based on Flow so we are paying essentially for the disposal of clean water entering our system in different areas which is the inii um and decreasing inii will certainly decrease our cost significantly so this is one of our big goals the system is nearing the end of its design life uh in is in need of numerous upgrades several repairs have been completed in 2024 um and the capital plan has been a a capital plan has been created to continue upgrades through 2032 uh Fitchburg and lster have raised their rates um Fitchburg is increasing their rates by 7% each year uh for the next 5 years and lemonster is increasing their rates uh to 16.7% effective July 1st 2024 and another 3% for FY 26 material and labor costs have gone up and lead time for materials has increased as it has in many facets uh loner's new NPD permit went into effect on March 1st 2024 and as a co- permittee co- commmittee co- permittee permittee uh lunenberg has new reporting requirements to meet um our strategic plan uh addressing these issues with our system um planning for the future is our top priority of course with um our staff and our commission uh would like to talk about some strategies we have in place uh in play addressing these concerns um to maintain our system and serve our customers successfully through the future um the as I stated earlier water getting of the system increases our costs um ID identifying this identifying the inii as our top priority the commission requested an arpa funds requested arpa funds uh to help repair manholes throughout the town uh $100 $100,000 in arpa funds were awarded to us we plan to go out and bid in the spring to correct the manholes identified that are adding to our inii problem moving forward we have increased the annual budget for manhole repairs as well um use of spill sends unit which is essentially a float with sophisticated software will help us Identify some of this uh influx of the inii um and this can be moved from manhole to manhole um we have purchased the unit and that was installed today uh we are excited about the technology um the results are satis Factory um if they are additional units may be purchased if it works very well could I interrupt for just a second is that what was going on down at the end of R's road today it is yes okay saw the project I was wondering yeah we're seeing a lot of inii at Mass 3 yep so we're starting at the end point and we'll work our way towards this the pump station right thank you we're very hopeful uh we are also working with uh engineering firm regarding the best ways to identify other sources of I um some of that is even at some of our stations themselves some Etc to rectify the problem so a number of improvements have been made as I mentioned in 2024 uh FY 24 uh new cranes were installed at Dana Street lonster Road and mass one station these crens assist with the safe removal of pumps uh and heavy repairs uh the control panels at the West Street and Francis AB station were also replaced and upgraded um General improvements were done at four stations Dana Twin City lemonster Road Mass 3 improvements include replacement of block heaters uh various components such as thermostats control panels temperature switches uh new vacuum pump replaced uh the field unit at Mass one the pumps at Dana Street are near the end of their useful life and have numerous failures requiring repairs on a pretty regular basis uh we hope to have the pumps replaced next year these are some of our larger pumps uh this year seven of the wet Wells were cleaned three required a tank entry we have Incorporated funding in our budget to clean the wells to at least uh at least annually uh the commission has developed a capital plan to address future needs um by draining these Wells we've identified many large problems um that we you shall see further here we have addressed uh the program the the graph you have in front of you illustrates the planned funding for Capital needs the large increase in fy2 is due to the priority upgrades at two of the pump stations Mass one and Dena didn't you have a large increase last year or was that we didn't have a large increase in capital needs we did take a large sum from uh retained earnings okay so and we're taking a similar retained earnings but you'll see later on that we're talking about a rate increase as well to cover some of the cost for the repairs over the next several years we are looking at uh generator and pump Replacements at several of our stations uh in FY 25 the capital plan line item has been increased to replace aging equipment in various stations um and to address priority repairs at Mass one and Dana Street um we are working with the green communities committee and um Unitil to hopefully obtain grant funding for these pumps uh we have also including for various spare components and contingency plan uh $33,750 so that one in the event of an emergency funds are available uh if this funding is not needed it will return um to retained earnings at the end of uh the FY year do these numbers include the labor associated with them or are they just okay okay uh during the wet well cleaning at Mass one uh it was discovered that dresser coupling on the forest main has corroded and was leaking subject to popping off uh if this were to happen it would be catastrophic being a forest main I imagine everything that can fill a sewer line for the course of half a mile or so going uphill that kind of pressure it's about 15 on a rotted pipe so uh the term big mess wouldn't really cover the problem uh you tend to see sewer lines and uh storm water lines along the same roads I can't say that they're along the same roads um in some cases they are and in others they are not so okay um that particular Force main there's not a lot of storm water drainage in other areas there are um the gis system actually has both I believe it has both the storm water and the um the sewers so you can look and see what areas have both in in parallel we just see similar issues with the storm water systems as the septic systems I'm wondering if there's synergies if you do things at the same time especially if you're cutting roads and they don't do storm water no I understand but two groups can work together so if yeah and the DPW director who is obviously part of the sewer um team is also on the storm water so we do regularly talk about storm water and and issues related to um that may integrate into the sewer so we do work in parallel and I'm sure if there was a situation where we had a project that could be coupled we would um because Bill kind of manages both of those okay and that's part of the help of having him involved to both right um these problems we're mentioning now were some of those problems we found by draining um uh and um giving us the opportunity to nip the problem in the bud uh repairs were made to the line on February 27th um this required draining the forest Main and then installing uh staging in the wet well the 12T uh 12' 8 in pipe was then cut and replaced oh the 12' 8 in eight across pipe uh was then replaced a riser was installed to support the pipe so that the problem would not occur reoccur the cost of the unplanned repair was approximately $40,000 is this done without digging up the roads or do you have to so far this particular project was done without digging up the roads um it was within the wet well itself every station has a wet well and that's where the sewage goes and and then it's pumped you know from that location um and it was accepting the line that broke was accepting the from the force Main and putting it into the tank and that's where the brake was so okay but it has also brought our attention to rotting pipes that go through the wetwell walls um we're uh we plan to address before one of those let go yeah we have we have two suction lines right now in Mass one um that are going to need to be replaced um when they did the repair on the the Force main line they found that the the they were also rusting to the point where the metal is getting very thin um and if they were to break we'd have the same type of catastrophe basically the wet wheel would fill up and spill um so we're looking at repairing those um as well and unfortunately when we drain the wet well at Dana we found that Dana is in a very similar situation it is that a design flaw in that the proper material wasn't used for that piping or I I guess one one of the concerns I always had in manufacturing is you know most times you replace something that's corroded with the same thing that was there before I guess the question is is there uh compelling information that it should be a different material I guess is the question it's interesting that you bring that up um the the Force main can't be a different material but the suction lines we're looking at possibly replacing the metal pipes with schedule 80 PVC M um and we're working with our engineer that's what the contractor has proposed so we're just working with our engineer to confirm that that will work um and will do the job but obviously if we can do that that's our plan y thank you we're also looking at air breathing um possibilities allowing the wet well to breathe more may actually help with the rusting issues right we're trying to address everything we can great thank you uh given the substantial increases by lemonster and Fitchburg the need to repair and upgrade infrastructure uh the and the rising costs um on July 1st of 2024 the sewer rate will be increased uh from $ 13 uh $13.66 to $15.85 um this incre this increase uh equates to a increase of approximately $2.34 a month on average uh for the average residential unit uh the minimum charge will go from $115 to $126 per quarter um due to loner's recent increase in their connection fees uh the connection our connection connection fee will go up from $2,250 to $3,900 um uh you should have another graph graph in front of you um with increased Freeze from lemonster and Fitchburg this graph illustrates the fee increases uh we have seen from lemonster and Fitchburg um in Project cross costs through FY 29 based on the current use and rates do they see the same percentages in their own town they're not seeing the same percentages um in lemon in Fitchburg we pay the same rate in lemonster we do not we pay a substantially higher rate 1.25% higher than the lemonster user is what we're currently paying after the second increase in fiscal 26 we be pay will be um any increase beyond that will be penny for Penny is there a specific reason why we're paying more in lemonster for lemonster because we are relying on them for their system because they can um and they charge all of their um outof Town users that rate the the new npdes prmit go into effect on 3124 NPD uh e stands for National pollutant discharge of elimination system uh and is a program administered by the EPA that regulates discharges of waters within the United States um as a co- permitter permittee uh permittee of the city I'm never going to get that uh loner's permit will have to comply with uh new reporting requirements um in addition uh an adaption plan must be completed within 24 months which identifies vulnerable um critical assets that are vulnerable to storm flood events under Baseline and future conditions uh within 36 months adaptive measures must be developed that will minimize the impact of future conditions on critical assets and operations uh within 48 months of the permit date a schedule of implementation and maintenance is adaptive uh of adaptive measures must be submitted to the EP a um an updated sewer system operation and maintenance plan must be completed and and reports must must be submitted annually to uh on adoption plan progress and activities related to the implementation of the omm plans hopefully some of this work can be done inhouse by staff uh however some engineering uh expertise may be needed did you say this what's a vulnerable critical asset anything that is basically a pump station I mean that is a vulnerable critical asset because if it were to fail just like we talked about it would cause an environmental disaster um so if it were to flood um you know we were to have a flood situation and that's one of the things we'll look at is anything that lies within the flood plane and is subject to flooding what is our what is our adaptation plan what are our emergency measures um so those are things we'll be looking at over the next couple of years okay um so we have the budget you should have the budget uh fi25 Enterprise fund budget revenues in front of you uh the user charges um quarterly billing uh irrigation fees uh comes to 1,234 uh the connection fees uh we brought in with $20,000 this is what we're projecting this is what we're projecting I'm sorry this is our projected oh our projected of course um 2025 uh we expect to our permit fees we um expect about $3,715 penalties interest about $10,000 investment income is estimated to be 8,000 and the estimated betterment revenues is 473,000 total for that year potentially of $1,751 uh sorry 1,7 75189 do you explain what's included in the in the betterment revenues what makes those up so a portion of the betterment revenues are the town um and then the others are individuals who have betterments on their property um and it's their forecasted payment plan okay um okay so it's strictly money coming in from from people that have bettered their property and financed it over a period of time okay does that tend to stay pretty consistent year to year um well some of them are dropping off right right or is that is that a a figure that's going to drop off over the next decade or so leaving you exactly exctly if you where is it now unless we extend the sewer line right right so right now our sewer vets um we're actually making money on the B at this at this point um but they do fluctuate um and I do have a a a graph that kind of show projects out um 2027 we should make approximately uh 265,000 uh 253,000 um and then it it changes because it depends on the timing so in 2029 it drops down to 2 939 and then in 2031 where're we go back to being negative slightly 2,840 but at that same time you're probably bringing in additional well that's the Hope um and you know as people connect they have an opportunity to either pay off the betterment or to it's a privilege fee um and they can Finance it over um a 10year period okay and I just closed your book so sorry what's the interest rates available on the betterment uh I wasn't involved with the betterment so honestly I can't tell you that that's fine I was just curious because I did mind when whing Street was done and I'm I'm well beyond paying it off but uh the rates were really helpful for people that needed to finance it the last one was an srf loan so the interest rate was 2% yeah that that's about what I had in my head that most of the projects have been in that realm yep that sounds good because I'm adjacent to the sewer line on my property I'm the last house that has septic and we've tossed the idea around year after year well when when you need to replace it is when you'll be ready exactly right and we'll you'll be very welcomed all right um should we run through the summary as well or um I don't know if you want to go through yeah each line ex the um our summary for our fy2 and Enterprise budget fund expenses um our total on that I'm just going to give you the totals unless you have other specific questions um total on that expectation at this time is 2,114 uh $689 um total retained earnings appropriation uh is hope we hope to be 400,000 a total of $400,000 is required from retained earnings uh in 2025 to cover the difference uh is dedicated for emergency repairs and to provide an uh emergency buffer in the event that the full amount is not utilized it will be returned to retain earnings which we certainly hope um various fund projections fund Pro projections uh is expected that in FY 29 following several Capital uh upgrades there may be uh Revenue to deposit into retained earnings as well and we have those numbers in front of you if you have any questions and just one clarification on that the retained earnings numbers that you're seeing don't include interest um because we have no way of knowing that until the end of the fiscal year so so that that number will be higher um depending on what happens with interest are your investment strategies and those those numers yeah those are through the the town um I and I honestly I get these figures from the town account okay thank you comes back to our idea of wanting to get more investment improve our investment portfolios right yep and gentlemen that brings us to the end of our presentation uh have you uh any questions for us when do you project retained earnings to go to zero hopefully not um our hope is that you know as Brett talked about we're hoping to get grant funding um we're actually working with green communities now um on some of the replacement of our pumps which are a large item in our Capital plan um so if we can get that funding then that fun that those funds won't be expended and those won't be those will go back to retained earnings our hope is by what did what year did you say 2029 um we hope to be start making a regular investment into retained earnings um you know none of us have a crystal ball um but what we've done is Project out we've worked with our um vendor to identify that the equipment needs that we need to upgrade um and we've budgeted that out to 2032 um obviously what would just happened with mass one and what's happening with Dana were unexpected um so those unexpected things do pop up but what we're hoping is that by doing the proactive measures that we're doing which is the regular wetwell cleaning the regular um inspections working with our engineering firm we can avoid those types of expenditures staying ahead of these problems can be key so in your fiveyear here what's your assumptions relative to rate increases over those years right now that has not been decided um right now we're looking at the 16% potentially there may be a slight increase moving forward but that's going to that's really a wait and see as I said there's a lot of dependent on whether or not we need we're able to acquire those Grant funds um right now we're looking at about potentially $200,000 in grant funding um if we if we obtain the grant so that will cut our cost significantly we've obviously thrown some numbers around but if we don't have to raise rates we certainly won't the only qu only other question I have is regards to mass one and and what you found there being more than what you went in to repair originally do you intend to put a more aggressive inspection cycle in place for all of the infrastructures so that you've got a better handle on what's going on before we do have a major spill yeah absolutely that's why we have a new system where a new plan where we're going to be draining those wet Wells on a regular basis uh which hasn't really been the practice um but you know Having learned from our recent uh well draining um as you're mentioning we're going to do it on a regular basis to stay ahead of it and the other thing we're doing is looking for I I so as we identify it we'll correct it um obviously that reduces our cost but it also weakens the infrastructure within it um in several instances we found bricks in the wet Wells which is a sign that the the call The Brick collar on the on the um manhole is deteriorating um and falling in um so we're looking at that we're also looking at doing more jutting um so we we are aggressively working on a on a maintenance plan to to to lower costs and keep things low additionally more camera work all that kind of thing yeah I know on Water Systems there's a way course with a water system it's easy if you need to re resurface the inside of a a water man you run temporary Water Service on top of the ground and then you run a machine through that coats the inside of the water M you're not going to be able to do that with sewer lnes correct I would not think so yeah okay so that's a as they deteriorate it's going to be a major you know replace this section replace that section so on and so forth it'll be road work right okay thank you thank you other questions from the committee how many customers do you have um currently we have approximately 1300 1365 units um so we don't go by customers that are build anymore because for example whm luxury apartments they get one one bill but there's 42 units in that in that building um so about 1,365 units so some of those being bigger than others right right right are we getting to the point where and this is my complete ignorance to how long a pipe lasts in the ground are we getting to the point where we are going to start seeing catastrophic failures across pipes we don't believe so okay um uh we suspect that the pipes that are completely underground are in generally uh generally in good shape uh there may be sections we come across um but that'll be found by um either through jetting or camera work um these Pacific pipes are entering the wet Wells and through that the exposure is affecting through the wall um so we hope not to have to dig too far from the wet well for these repair right and the jetting we've done hasn't shown any indication that the pipes themselves are in trouble okay excellent so the preventative maintenance is this point should be sufficient to maintain it not like in 2029 we're going to have this catastrophic failure that we're I mean again first of allall but right we're not trying to put a Band-Aid on a sewer pipe no no that's just not going to work yeah our focus is on the pump stations right now and we've done a lot of improvements and we're going to continue that um but the lines themselves really our focus is just jetting um and caming if needed um but we haven't seen seen any deterioration of the pipes themselves okay is is is there is there a technology uh I know uh a lot of under pip underground pipeline systems with other materials going through the pipes um have the capability of putting through it's not a mole I don't know what it's called but it's it's a unit that actually uh measures the thickness of the walls of the pipe as it travels through um this in particular was going on on a property up in New Hampshire cuz there's a uh crude oil pipeline underground up there that's substantial distance from Portland to uh Montreal yeah our pipes are PVC uh yeah okay so that's going to make a a big difference yeah okay thank you are we anywhere near capacity issues with the current load that we have no we have a lot of room in fact so so there's no issue with having to add additional pump stations or got plenty of room for you okay right right excellent our flow on average is about 200,000 gallons per day to to lemonster and our intermunicipal agreement is for 500,000 gallons per day um in the intermunicipal agreement that was recently negotiated we have the ability to request more if it becomes necessary um but right now we're not close to our 500,000 gallons per day okay getting more customers would in fact lower our rates right for everybody K everybody's anybody's interested that's the plug any other questions from the committee I'm good all right thank you very much thank you thank you we appreciate all of your times you thank you have a great evening you too public oh that's right um well we don't have a public no public do we have any public comment from the public as you said the Public's all the school or at the Ritter all right thank you for the reminder hearing none let's move on to Monte Tech good evening gentlemen excuse me good okay all right ready all right um first we want to thank you for uh having patience um we were gifted with four town meeting four finance committee meetings in three nights so we just drove from Templeton I promise you we did not exceed the speed limit to get here but we're happy to be here and excited to uh share what's going on Mon Tech um I realized it's late uh Tammy's really who you're here to see pretty much for the finance stuff I'm going to quickly go through the opening section that just kind of gives you some updates on what's going on at montech um and I may even skip a few slides but please if there's any questions you know don't don't hesitate to give me a stop um again one of the things we like to focus on is the fact that we do make an extreme effort at montech to seek out grants and opportunities to get funds into the building to support our students uh that then obviously assist with us not having to look up for the towns for additional monies so some examples we have here the first one that's listed there um CTI the Career Technical initiative um has been a a program set by the state for about the past two or three years um this is adult Workforce training for underemployed and unemployed folks who are looking for new careers um we've had this in place you can see we've had four different rounds of it just last summer we got uh CTI round eight they skip numbers they don't follow it sequentially um so that was uh $720,000 this allows us to do work within our shops because obviously technically it's for the night program adult students but obviously the equipment that we purchase then can be used by our students during the day so it's a great uh example of some of the things that we able to do with adult Workforce training and Common Wealth Corporation is a great assist for that the next slide you can see is just the graduation ceremony that we have for these uh adult students great opportunity again these are people who have changed their lives in terms of they may have been working as a chef and now they decided I'm going to become a welder uh their families come to the grad uation ceremonies it's fantastic and you can see also the different types of programs we have culinary CNC operator welding Property Maintenance and currently ongoing still of carpentry electrical HVAC and plumbing uh last time we were here last year we talked about an anonymous donation that we received great opportunity we used some to buy some cabinet making equipment uh and the other piece was the plan was to use to replace our we still have the existing original spray booth in our but from 1960 something uh in our shop um I'll be honest with you it basically is where we wash cars because it really doesn't work at all we have an additional Booth inside that we able to use um but this will allow us to have two new Bays outside the building um when we put it out to bid with our the donation we found out that it costs a lot more we thought it was going to cost to put in auto spray booth um so we had to go seek another opportunity so again we went for another Workforce Grant the Kenneth Donley grant that gave us a $500,000 uh kick in for the project so that pi picture isn't the one it's the it's going to be like the one we're going to install that's one down at bayth but this will allow us to build the two new spray booths have them there allow us to start doing appraisal courses adult Workforce in appraising car accidents and obviously doing the different repairs as well another Grant just very quickly that we're really proud of um the state asked um corporations and schools to look into training a set of the workforce that unfortunately is really underused and and ignored to be honest with you um and that's young adults uh 18 to early 30s um who have disabilities we're talking autism uh folks that may be on the Spectrum um social emotional issues that prevent them from typically being able to to get out and and be part of the workforce um so we partnered with a collaborative caps collaborative is right right over in uh Westminster in the ark which is in Fitchburg they're going to provide us some students and we're going to train them in four different areas you can see the areas there culinary and Hospitality office and copy assistance and um retail customer service we're going to give them seven weeks of technical skill training we'll give them a week of professional skills so they know how to work within a work environment how to collaborate with their colleagues and everything else then it ends the best part is we get two year two weeks of a paid internship and then by working with companies like red apple farm uh the Colonial Hotel uh hanford's hanford's right up in in lunenberg has offered to say you know what we'll be able to take these students and hire them when they go through your training so it's a very exciting opportunity and we were thrilled to learn that montech and proud that monitech was the only Regional Vocational School that got in line to be part of this program so we're very excited the last one just shows we do still have our individual Shops going out getting grants this was just an example of a $25,000 grant that our uh Auto Body folks got so overall for FY 24 we've uh got about 1.4 million in Grant so far we still have $500,000 for our culinary program sitting out there um the big Trend as you know in culinary is food trucks so our plan is to try to use this money to build a m food truck and have our students work on that food truck and develop it and everything else another thing we're very proud of in terms of allocation if you've never heard of Perkins funds Perkins funds are federal funds used for Workforce training um every vocational program in the country gets an opportunity to access these funds uh most recently uh they've been going up we got about 298,000 and what we're really proud of we use a big bulk of that as you can see the next couple slides on what's called industry recognized credentials and these are the different skills and um exams that the kids pass in order to get certified so when they get hired they can immediately get good high-paying jobs um we use $102,000 to get 1,978 different irc's um and we're just really proud of that um we also just not just grants but making sure that we're using our utilities properly uh last year Monch was identified um by massave I'm assuming everybody probably has heard of massave um massave identified us as one of the massave climate leaders one of 14 in the state um in terms of businesses or organizations that do a good job with Energy Efficiency um we're really proud of is they also acknowledge the fact that we're training our students very well in terms of how to address energy um efficiency when they go out to the workforce I'm going to go through the next four slides very quickly our MVP Academy we're very proud um everybody knows that there's no capacity there's not enough capacity for students to get into vocational training this current freshman class we had 300 sorry um 850 uh students apply for 360 positions in our current Freshman Class um what we ended up doing was we partnered with three of our districts the ones with some of the larger uh weight list Fitchburg gter aranet um we leased a warehouse on Westminster Street right down the road from us in Fitchburg we our own students are converting that into three programs uh house carpentry electrical and plumbing and students from those districts will come work in those uh get trained in uh two years of Workforce Junior and Senior year they'll get 900 hours will allow them to go and get jobs afterwards they will stay enrolled in their cities and towns so the Chapter 70 money stays in their cities and towns we are not using any Chapter 70 money so there's no money coming from any of the other towns to pay for this uh we got a $1.9 million Grant to assist us with that uh to do all the work and as you can see on the last slide there you can see what this the Shop's going to look like the last slide our students doing the the work themselves that's what the ren it looked like um at the beginning the bottom left is just a good example we had to cut our floor uh in order to do plumbing for a new Ada uh bathroom our students cut that floor we did not have to hire a contractor that in Al loone save $5,000 on the project so really excited um you'll see something about admissions there that was just to give everybody update to show how much we've adjusted our admissions process um over the last four years um trying to expand access so more and more students can get full points in each of the categories um we're very committed to that we're very pleased to see that Co-op is our students instead of going to shop they go out and work uh in the workforce they get hired by local companies you can see our numbers are fantastic record-breaking uh year so far um that number in February that 202 uh we're already up to about 230 235 kids now who are now working in the workforce making money and just doing fantastic we do have to knowledge we're both supposed to be College and Career ready uh Worcester State has stepped up we've got some great dual enrollment programs at no cost to our students that gives them a foot uh foot in in terms of the uh work uh West State in terms of credits that they don't have to pay for that they can get while being with us and taking some really neat classes while doing that uh last year if you remember I did speak speak about this but we we always want to take the opportunity to say listen what can we do to uh make sure that our kids are Workforce and career ready when you look at that chart each of the shops in blue are shops that you would expect to go into uh college at the end uh for instance the top one animal science our kids can graduate as veterinary assistants they're going to get paid basically nothing but they can go work if they want to go into the workforce for them to make real money they need to go on to at least two more years of college to become a veter technician where they're getting a good working wage you know so if you look at some of those others you know our health or health occupations the fact that 24 of the 25 kids are going on to college same thing they graduate as CNAs they can go to work but they're not going to make a living wage there they have to go and get further learning meanwhile on that second page the ones in Orange are the trades that you typically see kids go right into the workforce so you look at Auto technology 14 of the 16 kids went right into the workforce you look at Plumbing all 16 of the 16 kids graduating from Plumbing went right into the workforce we just want to make sure that everybody understands this isn't uh you know my grandfather's uh you know type of uh vocational education where it was just the construction trades we offer so many different programs that some have to go on College and some will be on trades and still stays relatively balanced uh then last but not least uh we always like to reach out to Heather she always uh gives us a call when something's going on um and we love to do projects if there's anything we can do uh one of the fun things we got to do we had just purchased in our H program last summer um heat detection devices that the kids could use to determine if the windows were working well and guess where the first place we came to bring those was right here at lunenberg Town Hall we had kids had a great opportunity to learn about Energy Efficiency and everything else and we did some other work around town as well so again anything we can do we'd love to be able to do um really proud of what's happening at montech uh and really proud um of the business manager that I have because she does such a great presentation so sit back and you can hear all the great things about finances but I don't if there's any quick questions or anything or all right very good thank you hi hi there I'm going to apologize in advance I have a spring cold happening so I apologize for my voice that's terrible you really don't want me to step in yeah um so I'm starting in the presentation that starts with the budget and my first slide is cfy 25 Foundation budget so that's really the basis for our whole budget this is the document that really guides us so I know you're familiar with this document um this sets the minimum spending levels for school districts it's based on grade levels which goes across the top and then different categories which goes down in the rows Administration instructional leadership Etc so moving across the column you can see that all of Monte Tech students are in the vocational column which besides special education is considered the highest education model the most expensive so we get more The Vocational students get more in those spending categories so you can see we have 1476 students that's not the number of students that are at monitech that is our foundation enrollment that means that's the students who live in our 18 communities who come to Monte Tech it's the students who live in our 18 communities that school choice to another vocational school and we also have a practical nursing program that's chapter 74 certified and there's a small number of students in there that get added to this number and that's also from October of like FY 23 it's October 1st of 2023 yeah so it's not representative of what's going on right now but it's an attempt to normalize it correct okay the next uh columns 8 through 13 are what the state calls above base so these are duplic duplicative counts of students but based on the category of student they give you a little additional um spending for those pupils because it's higher so special ed 73 that is not our special education number that is an assumed percentage that the state puts in there for vocational schools it's 4.93% and non it's 3.93% so that's the assumed percentage and that's going up to 5% I think over the that's the student Opportunity Act through the student Opportunity Act that's supposed to go up to like 5% by next year or in two years okay yes yep we're in here you're three three of the act and it's six yes um and then we don't have any other students till you get to row 12 which is our El's that's our actual count we have 10 so you get some additional funding there and low income 500 how the state determines that number is all of our students get uploaded into the state database and then the state matches those students with their families through Transit assistance SNAP program the different programs that the state has this was this is a change this year from the past four years because Mass health when they re when they did a recertification process for low-income students they changed the calculation from 13 33% above federal poverty to 185% below EXC excuse me federal poverty level so it it took a lot of families out of the system um so what that in turn did is some schools in the state went down a low income group so what I mean by that is in the bottom left corner of um the form you'll see we're low income group six we were lwi income group seven last year and there's 1 through 10 Bas the higher the percentage of students for low income you get more per pupil in your foundation budget so by going down a grouping because of the change we lost about 250,000 in our foundation budget this year we're not alone some districts lost Millions um so anyways bringing that all to the end they come up with your total Foundation budget so you can see for us it's 29,900 307 when they divide that out by the foundation enrollment you come up with 2,258 per pupil that's in the bottom right corner you'll hear those num me say those numbers a couple of times moving on to the next slide this is a breakdown of our Chapter 70 funds so you can see what we're getting this year1 18, 31874 then rolls 2 through five we just talked about our foundation budget the the next number is the required District contribution this is what the state calculated for all 18 of our communities the minimum the ability to pay towards um the foundation budget that's the 11648 232 when they do the subtraction they come up with an aid for us of fy2 of1 18, 25275 that's less than what we're currently getting in FY 24 so we're considered a hold harmless District 220 other districts in the state are also considered hold harmless this year couple reasons the foundation budget that we just looked at goes up by um inflation factors for the last couple years we've had high inflation for this year's inflation factor it's down to 1.5% so they weren't the uh Foundation budget wasn't keeping up and enrollment numbers keeping up so that's kind of the change anyways what that means for us is we're getting they're not going to cut our Chapter 70 but they're only going to give us the minimum Aid which is $30 per pupil so we are getting $ 44,8 in additional chapter 78 this year to give us a total of chapter 7018 milon 362 984 now moving over to the right hand side you can see our foundation enrollment talked about Foundation budget talked about required distribution talked about Chapter 70 brings us to our required net School spending $3,216 this is the required minimum spending every school district must spend not inclusive of Debt Service Capital transportation and meals normally you would hear me say that that number is the same as your foundation budget and you can see in FY 24 those two numbers are the same they're usually interchangeable it's not interchangeable for hold harmless districts because you're getting more Chapter 70 than what they've calculated to and they want you to spend it all so instead they take your the required District contribution from your communities your Chapter 70 and that becomes your net School spending number now before I get to read all the tea leaves at the end of this you can already tell by looking at this the burden of the increase of our $525,000 budget increase falls on the communities as you can see they are going you know you they are going up 480,000 so that's just kind of um showing you where the formula is going can I can I ask a question on on foundational Aid the required District contribution so for a public school that's the that's the same as the the the efforts correct effectively so how is that calculated when it's multiple districts all in together I mean for us it's easy we can take the percentage and multiply it by the total assessed value of all properties for the property effort and then by the total was it the income by its percent like 1 point something percentage y um how is it calculated for a regional so they literally take that same individual Town calculation come up with it so they come up with all 351 or four however communities are in Massachusetts now and then they say Monte Tech you get lunenberg AAL asham and they take those and add them up okay and that's how they come up with with our 18 okay but what about the so what about the district contribution number where does that where do we get how does that number get calculated how does it get allocated to us no just yes or just how does it get calculated in general so the district contribution gets calculated just how you described it based on your each Town's um property value wealth and then times the municipal Revenue growth factor equals your required District contribution to all your schools that you belong to okay then and and I do have a couple slides showing exactly that then what they do is they say okay you belong to lunenberg public mon Tech what we've come up with X for your required District contribution what percentage is mon Tech of that how many kids in lunenberg are that percentage and they multiply that out and that's how they come up with how that works okay and then that's just the sum of all of those sure is got it 100% thank you uh so moving on and now I'm on the slide that says fy2 budget summary so again working in our 25 column I just talked about our net School spending Transportation 2 milon 51610 that's the 30 buses that we contract on the daily to get the kids to and from school we are in year this will be year two of our contract it's a 4% contractual increase and we also have our special ed cost uh Transportation cost built in there which brings it up another 8/10 of a percentage you can see our above net School spending 296 948 so we're less than a percentage point above our re our minimum required spending it's around 0.9 in our capital budget and vehicles added together you have 510,000 compared to this year of 500,000 it's an increase of 10 and the most of that 460 capital budget is for bleachers we're replacing our athletic bleachers next year that takes up most of it we also have a small $225,000 transfer to stabilization fund and um 10,000 to the opep fund 15 excuse me to the oped fund so that gives you a gross budget of 33 million 3 34,1 se4 we talked about our my um our Chapter 70 we briefly and we will go further into required minimum contributions the next piece is how we arrive towards our transportation and other operating assessment so that 2.8 million is from above transportation and above net School spending added together then we subtract out the aid that we are offsetting it with so we're offsetting it by our estimated Transportation aid from the Cherry sheets we're also going to offset it with 150,000 from our regional transportation fund so we have a revolving Regional Transportation fund so what that does is if we get more monies in in one fiscal year so in this case in fiscal 24 4 you can see we've budgeted 1.7 million in FY 24 we're projecting based on the estimates we're getting now that we're going to get more than that normally the extra would roll into end but instead the school committee votes to put that extra into our revolving Transportation fund and how you have to use that is it must be used in the following fiscal year fy2 to reduce Transportation assessments to your communities so that's where that money is coming from the next is our excess and deficiency account we're proposing using 250,000 for this section to reduce the overall um operate transportation and operating assessment to our communities of 48795717 me the next section is our Capital just from above again 510 and we propose using an additional 200,000 from end to offset that bringing that set net assessment to 310,000 leaving total assessments 12, 44690 the next slide shows shows you what our certified excess and deficiency balance is 1.3 million so we're proposing using 450,000 from that offset assessment Regional School Districts um by Statute can keep up to 5% of their budget in their excess and deficiency account after using the 450 it'll leave us around 2.6% so kind of half to offset half in case of emergencies I told you we transfer a small amount into our stabilization account each year so our balance there is 346,000 570 we're building that because we try to keep our Capital assessment total to our communities relatively stable every year so we don't see big fluctuations but we're trying to build this so that we can do those mid to medium range to higher range projects so we know know in the somewhat near future we're going to need to do work on our main electrical gear which much like the spray booth is to the beginning of building's life as well and projecting that's 3/4 to a million doll so we're trying to get this built up so that we can use these funds to offset Community assessments so it's so we don't have those spikes and our opab account I like to say it's small but it's there right the next slide is summary by function so this gives you a snapshot by the function codes of of where we're spending this 33.3 million so you can see the comparisons um between the categories on the next slide after that I have a snapshot of what makes up the $800,000 increase and it's salary big surprise um so FY 25 is is our second year of our collective bargaining agreement so we have a 3% Cola in there and step and column movement and this is for all staff uh so that brings about a $490,000 increase the next component as I told you is transportation which is a sizable 100 almost 100 177,000 again year two of our contract 4% increases the third component is we have a couple of pieces built into our technology one our network is end of life so we're going to be replacing cores switches and if you're more techsavvy than I am which I'm not um you know it would cost more than that to replace a network schools get what's called e- rate funding so so we get discounted rates on some of our bills so we're using a couple hundred thousand of eay funds to also offset that as well as cyber security protection I don't know if you want to just Qui so one of the things we want to make sure that we mentioned to each of the towns as we went around and this is probably shared with our community and our families um unfortunately last fall we were uh a victim of a Cyber attack um at montech uh thanks to the great work of our it group um we were able to keep our data we didn't lose any data we didn't have to pay any Ransom or anything like that um but it was definitely a wakeup call and uh with our Tech director and Tammy and myself um a lot of that money is going to uh services to help protect our our Network um additional uh Hardware to protect our Network um we've instituted new uh practices to address the issue as well um but that's why when you'll see the technology budget number going up significantly that's one of the main reasons for that so we just want to make sure everybody what attack was it um it was basically a blunt force attack on our uh on our wall uh that's one way of kind of describing it um but again we we had backed up everything we we did Regular backups all the time so we we had all our data so we didn't lose any of that so and no personal information uh we did have to just to be careful we did have to send out so we did send out um information to any affected student uh faculty member staff member retiree um you know some of it involved because we had concerns about if they had access to business V business records and everything else so we did all the requirements we did in terms of it um reaching out to individuals uh you have to reach out to the state you go on a basically a log of the state and everything else so we we've done all the the work that we had from uh the support we had from Maya which is one of our insurers was amazing and they just did a great job those individuals that may have been affected get Cyber monitoring yes yes we we offered that as well yep and employees is too so all the individual if they wanted to take um you know uh what's the word I'm looking for or the company that I'm looking for that did it for us yes identity protection mode who did we bring in I'm trying to remember the company that we had where well that's for our staff All State yeah I'll through queron um we did the normal notification we have cyber liability insurance thank goodness so we we have cyber liability insurance um through Maya which was great because right when we had the breach we were put in contact with attorneys and with um companies that do these sorts of things so they were able to help the tech side but then we also worked with the attorneys who helped us do all the notifications all the setting up the accounts for the people the 800 numbers to get yourself signed up the insurance you had on that that was through through Maya okay well it's offered through Maya and they subcontracted out through a company called Tokyo Marine um we were if anybody anybody out there listening please get Cyber liability insurance I have a question for the town manager for that we do all right it do you know if the schools has it it's part of our show this package right since it's all under the same account okay yeah lesson learned yep okay all right I'll keep moving on so now I'm going to move on to the slide that's contributions by member city or town so you can see here this is a breakdown of our foundation enrollment for all our communities and the required minimums snapshot so you can see for lunenberg and Foundation enrollment went from 97 to 99 excuse me which is an increase of two students and the required minimum went from 1,1 127,128 to 1,726 or an increase of 44,0 948 the next couple of slides break that down and this is exactly what we were talking about earlier so I know you understand these slides this is how the state determines a community's ability to pay and again we mentioned it's based on property valuation so that that's 1 through three property values the uniform property percentage that's a standard percentage across the state so you can see lunenberg what the state calculates for your effort from wealth property wealth 7 23995 4 through six is the income of the citizens of the Town times the percentage which again equal across the state same so you can see LUN Bird's effort from income 8,240 191 so they combine 3 + 6 to get the combined effort yield M so that is 15, 48095 row a fy2 foundation budget of 23 million that's the foundation budgets of lunberg and Monte Tech that rep that lunberg represents then what they do is they take a they multiply that by 82 1.2% to come up with a number what that's for is because even the wealthiest and richest of communities in the state at least get a minimum of 17.5% State AG Chapter 70 so that's why they put that formula in so then what they do is they compare the two numbers and they take the Lesser so in this instance it's the Lesser for lunenberg is the f 15 48095 then we move over to rows 13- 16 so they say what is lunenberg required contribution this year 133899 then the Department of Revenue calculates the municipal Revenue growth factor that number is different for every community and again it's it's with deals with new growth potentials to prop to half Levy limits it's a slew of kind of numbers that go into that calculation they multiply that and they come up with row 15 lunenberg preliminary contribution 13,507 471 now we come down to row 21 they say how does that number compare to row 10 to line 10 what we just said lunenberg quote unquote can afford to okay well it's less it's it's less by just shy of 2 million or 8.37% so when you look at row 23 it says if the shortfall is greater than 7.5% which it is we're going to add 2% to your increment so they took line 13 and they multipli that by 2% and they come up with this additional bump of 26,7 62 and that is what they're adding to row 15 what they've already calculated should be your required minimum this year that brings you to your new required minimum of 13 m768 233 the next slide shows you how that gets broken down between lunenberg and Monte Tech so rows 5 through n would pertain to fy2 so row five they brought over the number from the previous slide row six they take the foundation enrollment for each of your schools so at montech you have 99 what is your portion of monite Tech's budget well they take 99 and they multiply it by the first number I showed you on the very first slide of our foundation budget per pupil 20,28 and that's how they get that 2 million doll figure and they do the same for lunenberg as well based on their numbers so then they say what percentage of the whole does that make Mony Tech and that makes us 8.51% of your whole so they multiply your um preliminary contribution 13, 768 233 * 8.51% and that's how they come up with the required minimum for mon Tech 1, 17261 same thing held true for the calculation for lunenberg that's how they do it for all 18 they go through this process and then they flag which ones belong to each district okay so you can see that's how they come up with the the total required minimum the next slide gives you a snapshot of what your assessments made up and how it's changed over the last two years so you can see in 25 Foundation enrollment again we just saw that number required minimum we just saw how that was calculated by the state lunenberg portion of our transportation and operating assessment is 32,7 29 lunab BT's portion of our Capital assessment 20856 giving a proposed assessment for lunenberg of 1,225 646 and you can see what that works out per pupil so you can see the entire increase is really driven by the required minimum through the enrollment change and the wealth Factor calculations the next slide called Community assessments is a breakdown of how this works for all our communities a couple of numbers for you that I didn't show you previously on this slide is if we go to lunenberg Foundation enrollment 99 we've seen that but the next number 6.71% that's your percentage of our operating budget so that is what 99 is to 1476 that's how your operating assessment is calculated the next number 1679 that's the school attending children number so those are all the the students who live in lunenberg who are eligible to attend grades 1- 12 and the superintendent's office gives me those numbers so we have 1679 there and then the 6.73% repres presents what the 1679 is to our total School attending children of 29,000 24956 so lunenberg is 6.73% that number is important for two reasons it's your Capital assessment percentage as well as your freshman quota percentage so the school committee on it it at its meeting in April voted a freshman class quota of 355 students so lunenberg will get 6.73% of that class as your freshman quota and that's how that's calculated my last slide how I'd like to end is a snapshot of per pupil spending by vocational schools because that's our most comparative districts the latest numbers that the state has out is FY 21 so I just like to show you where we are comparatively speaking to the vocational schools in the state you can see we're we're pretty much kind of right in the middle um of spending that concludes my presentation and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have thank you very much open put up to the committee extremely interested in um the earlier presentation talked about mult grants that you have been able to pull in to help fund different things in the district uh my question is do you have a dedicated staff member that is a staff uh that is a grant procurement person yes we have a development coordinator who that's one of her primary POS she does you know staff development some other things but she is our grant writer and what she'll do is she will meet with each of the the individual instructors for whichever program are writing grant for they'll put their feedback or or input in and then they s off the Grant application okay so she's assisting those other staff members or say the other round she's writing it being assisted by the other staff members yeah great thank you very much we're in the process of instituting something here in our budget for 2025 absolutely I would highly recommend it more than pays for itself in return and we would not be able to keep our budget so close to the required net School spending and do everything we do without those grants so the other thing I would say again highly recommending you do that is the connections that the grant writers make in terms of when you put in a grant they get to know the exact person at the state level to call to say you know where's our grant how's it doing you know that kind of thing and those relationships those connections become a huge element in the whole thing it looks like our initial step is going to be to fund uh Grant Consulting rather than bring a person on board start but it's a it's a start exactly decision yeah excellent thank you other questions No I um so I'm still a little bit fuzzy on the net School spending um because we our school district is right around 100% as well but as far as I'm understanding the state is primarily spending like 100 the average is like 126% could you kind of explain a little bit more just for my own sort of understanding as to how that works and how that affects kind of everything else so so when you talk about net School spending yes each School gets a different net School spending number as as I started my presentation off you normally the foundation budget that they've set for each School mhm is your net School spending requirement it's different for hold harmless districts so the state is very um they're very I don't want to say aggressive that's not the right word it's it's part of the law that you must spend at least your required net School spending many districts find the reason for the student Opportunity Act that helps some is that the foundation budget is not enough it it hasn't before this kept up with health insurance benefits um it hasn't kept up with special education costs so school districts that are spending well above their net School spending requirement are for those reasons it's not keeping up with it um like I said we're fortunate that we get grants or or we might be looking at being percentage points above net School spending too our school committee recognizes you know the financial times we are in and make sure that we keep our spending as close to that 100% as possible but in some districts they would have to have significant Cuts just to be at 100% MH so it it's it's ideal to sit to sit right around 100% then correct would you say that or is it sort of District to District specific District to District okay um some districts are at 140% right some are 99.9% right so it's you know it's kind of a balancing act of what your town can support and what services you prioritize to okay yeah okay so if you're at 100% of the net School spending that's all you're doing is you're hitting the exact number that that the that the state is saying this is what you should spend if you go below 95% of spending medal spending M if you go below it period the state as I like to say sends you a dear Tom letter and then Tammy gets in trouble from that letter because they're like so what they do then is they say you spent $100 less than net School spending this year you need to make it they add it to your next school your net School spending next year so you keep going into deficit if you go below 95% they make you spend that and they don't give you any Chapter 70 increases they say your towns and you figure it out okay so it that's when I meant when I said the state is very serious about they don't want you going below okay is there any indication that they want you going above they they'd like you to be above they they've never said well we want you to be at 103 110 they want you to they want you to at least be at 100 but providing the services that you need to as well okay and the student Opportunity Act is an attempt to bring that kind of back up to an and and really what the is the key because really it's beneficial for urban districts the SOA is not that beneficial for suburban and smaller districts because we don't we're not seeing the increases you can see in lunberg itself Monte Tech we're not seeing sizable increases from this but you if you look at the Springfields the chicke urban settings you'll see high increases because of the student opportunity yet and I think they will tell you that was kind of the purpose behind it was to bring kind of underserved or underfunded districts up to where they should be MH okay I I did have I was going to say you have to have a followup to that one well not necessarily but okay I have opinions on that it's fair um if if a town were to pass a two and a half override for schools would that end up making our assessment into Monte Tech higher than next year no no we're not affected by your you just went through a whole bunch of math though that is like it's totally convoluted and I thought you at one point mentioned something about 2 and 1/2% the 2 and A2 just gets factored the state on the state spreadsheet for how they do your Municipal Revenue growth factor that comes into play in that number by the Department of Revenue could it could it affect how what the Department of Revenue calculates your Municipal Revenue growth factor you know I would refer maybe to maybe not you know again we yeah I don't know the formula I don't know what department of revenue the only one that I know that knows the formula and how it really works besides that lady that you should watch so I I learned all of this today that's the only reason why I know all this the MMA um did a did a whole thing on it today on the on the Chapter 70 thing and it was fantastic I bet and that's where I got my chart I literally took screenshots of it um and I didn't get into the the the municipal Revenue growth factor specifically but the rest of it I think we're screwed coming up in the next few years especially with the reassessment I mean there's no way we're going to be anything other than held harmless for the next foreseeable future at this point and if our new growth numbers are higher which they were substantially higher this year our Municipal Revenue growth factor is only going to increase as well and then we're going to be really held harmless yes yeah okay at 9:00 at night so much calculation [Laughter] but yeah sounds like a great presentation you did get a lot out of it it I was I was impressed he flew through it in 45 minutes all of chapter 7 he done nice one other quick one that popped in um the school committee is it one person per District per one per for our towns Gardner and this is by the regional agreement Gardner has two Fitchburg has four okay and that was how it was established in the regional agreement because of enrollments how long ago was that established 1960 say 50 plus years7 is it time to relook at the numbers is that even doable it's doable everything's doable they have the lowest student cost well that's because of their chapter 78 yes I know but then they get six mon votes versus yeah and they they have high the the reason they got higher votes set up back in the day was because they have the most the highest in Ran they might have a lower cost because their Community wealth factor is considered lower I think your she your seats your votes should be based upon your contributions in dollars oh by the wealth model by the I'm just saying if we're if we're paying 10% of the total non 70 we should get 10% of the votes and you'd actually be mid on the list because we have Harvard Holden Sterling Princeton actually pay 14,000 per pupil 15 1 would probably vote similar though right similar communities yeah very similar okay y but I think at the same time we haven't had an a Harvard rep sitting for a year and a half now or so can lunenberg take a seat but at the same time that mean just to say because lunenberg is considered more affluent by Chapter 70 doesn't mean that we should take away the voice of towns that are considered less affluent and therefore get additional Chapter 70 funding I I I it's it's not a simple I don't think it's a simple question of if you buying yourself more votes effectively I think it's easy to say if I don't pay much per student why not go buy all this extra capital and why not make these decisions cuz they'll pay for it well actually we're not going to change it tonight but my question that you answered my question actually for capital capital is outside of the net School spending Factor so our capital budget actually uh assessment is actually paid by more by The Furs and the winterin and gardeners because they have more students so their percentage of capital assessment is higher the where the Chapter 70 uh wealth model comes in is our net School spending anything outside of that 30 million is based on your enrollment okay do you so you mentioned the cola increases obviously yes is there a contract negotiation coming up anytime soon no thank you okay we're just finishing year one of the three year yes and we have a three year yes so when that does come around again do you set up a Sal Reserve account ahead of that I assume or do you just take it out of your um e and D account so we've been fortunate that we've knocking on wood settled contract negotiations well before the following budget processes even happen oh that's great negoti don't have to plug a number in that you think you're going to spend right we've had like once where that happened um yeah we have a great are your negotiators For Hire right we run the circuit right yeah we're very fortunate we this year we have a it's a 4% this coming year it's three and then it's three okay yeah and is that the only uh collective bargaining group that you guys have to work with we also have a custodians okay and they're the same we actually gave everybody the same colas as the teachers so okay did uh going into this budget process did you have or or as you got into say the the first quarter or first half of the budget process did you have a couple of outliers on what I'll call catastrophic increases that you hadn't been banking on that you had to figure out how to budget for yes yes technology um when we first put the first iteration of the budget together we had $2 million to cut out from budget Rec requests and needs requests so we had to sit down especially with with technology cuz you know we were making some changes here um so we really had to sit down and have hard conversations no the school committee wants us to stay close to our net School spending so we had to have that hard hard decision yeah so we we we sat with our vocational director who sat with the the shop instructors and in many cases we said P of equipment X it was going to be a nice addition but sorry not this year we have to wait another year so we we we had to cut those budgets okay so you so your energy budgets and and uh obviously your transportation tied in for one more year uh but there were no other major outliers that came into the budget process unexpectedly high no we were fortunate in terms of utilities um we we have we have solar energy as well which is been a very nice help to our um energy conservation but um I was contracted out you know we go to bid for utilities um 3 to 5 years ahead of time so we were currently in a year where we our utility rates were locked in so we weren't looking at the market fluctuations we still have another year so I'll be starting again with our Consultants to do our upcoming um utilities a couple years out so we're fortunate okay thank you yeah so for your transportation yes how is that actually broken out in terms of a of a contract because you have a a relatively close to the number of total students that we have but you're spread out across 18 District or 18 towns yes um and your transportation cost is about one and a half times what ours is which doesn't seem terrible given that you're spread out across 18 towns yes we bid by rout okay so we have three bus companies we used to have four okay um so it it actually helps in our case promote uh competition um so we we we bid it by Roots we put packages together by communities and then the bus companies bid on what routes best fit them so they give us Better Price you know I'm seeing some of my colleagues out there now doing Transportation bids because again this is a relatively new bid for us we're only in year one so it was a significant increase to go from we just ended five years cuz I took the additional two years and then when you go into a new first year bid which is this year you know we had an increase of double digits 11 12% and that's what we're seeing as standard cuz it's hard to get bus drivers prevailing wage for a bus driver is like $27 an hour so it's up there um so yeah you know being in the first year like I said it was a significant up just to get here so but you're actually finding that you're receiving more than just a dbid effectively oh yes yeah we we have um um Pary AA transportation and D okay yeah see that's one of our challenges is that and I'm not going to get into the politics of it but we get one bit you would not be alone most of the of the districts in the Commonwealth only get one maybe two bids that's a big um complaint I see on my list serve of other business managers so you're not alone it's it's hard going out there what lack of competition has never been there's just not a lot of companies in general yep you're busing your requirements that you put on the buses are they different than what we might be so we must pick you up within a mile of your house um and if if if you live within a mile and a half a school we don't have to pick you up but we pick you up mostly CU you're on the way but all of our bus stops have to be within a mile of the home yeah cuz Okay so you just yeah cuz I think we drop off at every home like you make six stops if six kids next live next to each other yeah you probably do if you have younger Riders cuz we we only have high school Riders so you we try to pick up at the safest Spa I mean we have several spots but um in some cases they have a little bit of a walk yeah the middle high school they have more centralized ones but they still stop at my house even though my house isn't a stop it's supposed to be at the corner but it seems to be the bus driver just kind of I'm sure our bus contract is for $100,000 any other questions go ahead I always come back to a number of years ago when um the lunenberg uh bus contractors was up for Renewal and a two or three local uh people well known to town got together and they mapped out the town prove all the roots I used to do that actually with my dad back in the' 60s uh to verify the roots and everything and they came into the town with a proposal that would just blew away all the other companies with three West buses wow and initially this was a few years ago so the rules were different yes but you know and everybody said there's no way you can do that but they had done their homework presented it and they got the they got the contract that's great you that that's why I say you know lack of competition is what's really killing a lot of us a lot of these towns including us trying to get a good deal on Transportation even these bus companies are having a hard time getting drivers you'll see those One ads everywhere it's it's I don't know I think since Co it's really been a tough industry to kind of regenerate doubt Yeah final questions no thank you very much aome thank you guys guys thank you so much for your time and I think we should change the time of year that you do your presentation because I believe this is it's definitely the second time if not the third time that you've had your spring whatever you want to call it is this when I get a spring called every year all right changing they figured it out Tammy awesome thank you very much you all right is there any public comment from the non-exist in public seeing none next presentation right the last of the evening right good to go okay so I'm going to cover the general government categories health and sanitation veterans unclassified and debt and for the general government budgets it will include um nine of the 11 budgets you've already heard from it um and land use is not included in this presentation for the select men's Administration the two increases reflect additional advertising open positions as we try to fill vacancies an increase in the meeting training line that reflects actual expenditures and for the salaries the assistant Town manager salary and the executive assistant salary will be dependent on the fiscal 25 impact in the salary Administration plan and that will be an article at annual town meeting and you'll hear that repeated through a number of these budgets so just out of curiosity how does that exactly work because if we're going to the to town meeting with this as our balanced budget that we then approve and then we approve an sap increase that will have to come out of the salary Reserve salary Reserve okay or another category um okay do we have the capacity to now that we have the numbers from or do we actually have I don't have final numbers so I yep I'm reserving yeah but in theory we should have the Reserves available to absorb that unless it's something I'm going to have to find a way okay now that's the re the withdrawal from salary Reserve has to be approved at town meeting correct that's through the article to fund right the increases yeah it will be for fiscal 24 and fiscal 25 that's what the salary um the Personnel committee is bringing forth for their article for adjustments so they did a cola 24 um but they um said they were going to be coming to a future town meeting to look at any Market adjustments to positions and will that be re retroactive for the entirety of fy4 correct yes it's based on a retroactive and the fiscal 24 would be coming out of the salary Reserve or any other available um funds that are available at that time for the town manager budget it is pretty much level funded with a $200 increase in the cost of dues and membership line for associations finance committee the reflects a $500 increase for conferences which includes MMA conference costs as well for Dave's hotels this is we've tried to increase it seems like more and more people want to participate and go to those so which is great it's a great learning experience and good training I would love it if everyone could go it's it's well worth it yes when do we have to supplement that wine item will that be June or before for this year's for this year's I haven't seen um where that line I'm is at so okay I guess the question is when are we going to make the transfer but anyway yes we'll wait to hear from you for the town accountant budget the increases in that budget are $100 increase in postage costs $50 increase to reflect actual cost for contracted Services an additional $1,000 in meetings line for additional training for new staff the town accountant salary line is contractual and the clerical staff line for the assistant Town accountant includes contractual costs that were in the clerical collective bargaining agreement and the payroll benefits coordinator salary is dependent on the salary Administration plan and town meeting vote which positions are in town accountant clerical the assistant Town accountant and the payroll and benefits coordinator position risk management have those changed over or turned over are those turned over positions or are they the same one of them is the assistant Town accountant this new and came in at a lower grade correct okay so it's a terrible contract if you they have to take a pay cut and you're whatever for the annual Town audit this budget is level funded for fiscal 25 which gasb 45 valuation what is that yes that is the government um audit Standards Board I believe it's a it's one of the required audits that we have to do I believe it has to do with um reviewing Federal um monies that we receive and it's a mandatory part of our audit it's a year I don't have camon behind [Music] me for the legal budget this budget is level funded for fiscal 25 is well is this a is that contracted for like is there a number of years that that's contracted for yes when does that end um sometimes we have occasional rate increases with our existing we have two councils a labor Council and a Town Council and so that um occasionally changes we haven't received any notice of any change for fiscal 25 okay but it's year to year it's not yes and we have um our town councils on retainer right so that's pretty consistent um labor council is as needed so and we will be negotiating one contract next year okay for the Assessor's budget as part of corrective action for the assessor Department the board of assessors and I concur that an additional position is needed in that office and this would be for data collection position Clerk this would start off as a 19-hour per week position and this person would assist with data collection including assisting the principal assessor to inspect buildings under construction record status changes in order to update assessment records inspect real estate to observe measure and record characteristics of property do photographs that type of thing um in the field and Computing that into the K system as well so this is all a really um valuable resource that I think is needed in that office as we saw this last year data is an extremely important component of assessment the um need one more second 24 25 Target the principal assess wine item what's driving us going from 88 and 24 to 110 and 25 so that is a contractual position we hired a new principal assessor um actually she starts Monday okay so we we hired in new at a substantially increased number correct it went the salary was up went down it's back up what about the um the requested contractual services that decrease from 64 to 48 that has to do with um being our rebal year this year our costs are a little higher um in a reval year than cyclical inspection years but actually it was it's what's it's level funded though for what's actually coming out uh you're looking at the requested amount correct so I'm just curious like was the requested from from the board of assessors because they were preparing for the reeval year and then they so I'm sorry I answered that um incorrectly so the 64,000 was what they requested um above and beyond the the Target and for additional thirdparty contractual um sources beyond what we would contract out for so we included in the the preliminary budget is our contract with our personal property vendor our contract um an estimated amount for cyclical inspections for hiring a third party um and there's other um things like we use certain resources like near Maps you know all those contractual costs so they were requesting just more funding okay at town meeting we'll go in with the one with the oranges in them that come in preliminary well currently correct so other increases so update Ms that Maps that's um just an increase from that company that we use for um producing our Maps um which we're required to do every year and um that uh database that's on the website um for those cards the other increases include mileage reimbursement dues memberships and meetings so these are all related to so staff going up more in the field um for mileage costs our dues membership um making sure that our new incoming staff is trained appropriately and going to their required keeping their certifications up and such um on the postage if I could very briefly um US Postal Service just implemented an increase and we're level funded are we going to be okay on that line item I think so um based on what's been spent um this past year okay thank you just buy forever stamps and bulk right now okay for the treasures Administration bu budget this is level funded and includes contractual salary increases for the assistant treasure who is covered under the clerical bargaining agreement and the treasur salary portion of the treasure collector because it's a combined Position will be dependent on the salary Administration plan in that article at town meeting same thing for the tax collectors portion of the budget the uh assistant collector is covered under the clerical bargaining agreement so that's a contractual amount and the collector's portion of the salary will be affected by the salary Administration plan article are the clerical salaries for the tax collector and the that's the assistant collector right is is that the same person as the assistant Treasurer as well no okay so only the treasurer and the tax collector are the same position or the same person correct M Mali right okay for the town clerk's Administration the changes to this budget are all based on historical spending both increases and decreases or reflect estimated cost increases for the general code updates um those are for the bylaw and regulation changes that are both we receive um certain departments have the code book um but we also have the online General code that anyone can access online so that's the company that does those updates I know it's going to jump in probably in the next slide or so but uh can you explain why the town clerk salary is separated out of this it's it's all based on how that budget the line items fall yeah it's always been historically like that yeah I can include it in the same as good an answer as because we've always done it that way okay thank you I just followed the format of uh yeah the line item detailed budget and the assistant town clerk is also covered by the clerical bargaining agreement so that's a contractual cost there for the town Clark elections portion of the budget the increases are for printing postage office supplies and cost of lunch lunches for the election workers and that's all based on historical spending for the census um registration and census budget it reflects that all the categories are being level funded with the exception of an increase in postage cost and this um is based on historical um spending within that budget line and this also includes the town clerk's salary and that includes um 2 and a half% increase is that where like vote by mail would come into play for that postage um that would have to be a question I'd asked the town clerk s right um I know at some point um um in the past we were being refunded by the state for some mandatory um mailing that they when they changed the law but I don't know if that they're still doing those refunds this next slide is about grant writing services a new addition to under the general government budget and this is an additional 50,000 for for this for hiring Outsourcing um it can be any number of firms that we would be able to utilize under this line item depending on the need um and type of grant that would be covered would you just set a purchase audit to them for that service or would you have a list of qualified vendors or how how would you work that I think depending on what the grant um that whomever is submitting the requests that needs Grant services for we would look at who kind of specializes in that type of grant writing first so you would Envision doing some kind of survey and having a a list of preferred vendors yes yeah there's um a few that I know of um Capital strategic Solutions does grant writing it's a company I think it's lexipol they do Public Safety only um there was one other one um Thompson grants is another one and then would one of them be able to like just go out and like survey where we should be looking versus the writing of them themselves that's something I think um we could use this service or this appropriation for as well yes and particularly um I think Dave brought up earlier with all the arpa funding that's coming in through the state that will be available to towns um through different programs is um how to approach you know those grants okay well that be U trying to think how to put this I've been working on it for two or three minutes um will it come under the procurement laws when we're Contracting out these services in other words the dollar amount limits as with all other procuring for the grant writing for for a grant if we if we're going for a contract with a vendor for grant writing services is that going to be the same as for everything else that we for procurement yes I don't think there's an exemption for Grant rating I would have to so 5,000 or 10,000 10,000 is um best business practice the threshold is 10,000 10,000 where you don't have to Sol to solicit it's right okay thank you do we have good historicals on how much grants we get in year by year not Consolidated not Consolidated um I mean there's that would take a lot of research too because those grants are set up in their our accounting system and there might be coded differently so that's something we have to work with the accounting department we have in the past kind of tried to include you know which departments are receiving grants every year and kind of aggregate that to the benefit you know that's offsetting taxpayer dollars okay so there's no system we have that could just other than munice and looking at whether you know those are coded okay differently if it turns out it is coded separately then it wouldn't be that difficult to pull a report correct okay because it'd be good to understand how are we doing are we actually making a good improve mement on this and should we invest more in it or right stop over if it's not paying mhm and this would be to supplement I don't foresee departments that are continually applying for the same grants every year like the police department the fire department um that would continue on so this is to apply for additional grants okay that Department's U outside they capabil you know not capability but capacity and time I think and certain departments sorry when Tiffany and I were putting the letter together to the select board that was one of the things that we wanted to make clear that we weren't looking to Discount the fact that we have a lot of volunteers and paid employees that have been bringing you know thousands of dollars in and grant money U on their own uh this is just to try to enhance that process especially on bigger projects and more sophisticated projects right uh some of these very time intensive um to apply for for the health and sanitation budget just to recap what that covers outside of the Board of Health budget the town is part of a regional health district with a number of other nishoba Valley towns nishoba Associated Boards of Health include food inspections recreational inspections housing inspections Title 5 related work private well permits uh rabes clinics nursing visits home health aid visits rehabilitative therapy visits and communicable disease investigations for the health and sanitation budget the increases that you see in their budget are related to the nishoba associated Boards of Health assessment it's a 10% increase and similar to last year this is a reflection of inflation um throughout the economy and their ability to um retain and uh keep staff and um reflecting Fair compensation benefits for those staff the salary of the Board of Health Administrative Assistant reflects the contractual increases in the clerical bargaining agreement for the veterans administration and benefits budget line that um is level funded right now um that budget supports between five and 10 financial aid assistance to Veterans widows and their families each month that number has fluctuated this year we've had some veterans fall off either um through um passing away or uh not qualifying or moving out of town for the unclassified and health insurance category the health insurance renewal estimate used in the Target budget is 10 was a 10% rate increase for active employees 6% for retirees and the preliminary budget reflects our actual renewal rate which is a 5.7 % increase for active employees and a 6% rate increase for retirees 42% of our health insurance budget is for active Town employees 133% is for program um that started last year and that was extended through the end of next year when our it's part of a negotiation we do with a PC Group which is our Public Employee committee Group which is constitutes it is constituted of a member from each Union including school and retiree group did we see any net results because of that very minimal I think um there were a few um that took advantage of the program at the school and I don't know a lot about the type of health insurance you offer but have you looked at other health insurance like high deductibles and health saving accounts and a couple years ago we incorporated a higher deductible into our insurance to kind of offset costs all of that has to be negotiated with the PC do you have health saving accounts type programs voluntary yes MH okay is there a reason we only have the school retirees on this list and not or is the town covering the school retirees in this budget line yes so the school budget only covers active School Employees is there a reason why it's been yeah this this way we could um you know could move it over to the school side of the budget or the other way around bring the school side of the take it it's all comes out of the same yeah till get I think um that would affect um I'm not sure the the calculation for the foundation budget Foundation budget okay I mean to me if it's just an accounting thing it it would probably be better to put the retirees with the schools so that you get an A good assessment of the actual percentage that is is schools I but it is what it is maybe the question has come up in the past and I vaguely remember there was a logical or semi logical reason why but I do not remember what the explanation was it may have been Karen brochu actually that gave an explanation that made a little bit of a sense can we call her we used to have just one line item and um it wasn't separated out like we we do now and it's easier to track this way and the only thing I think it would affect is when people start going well oh what do you pay per student and because we have this out of the school budget it would be less per student it doesn't really affect the students it just the number is different so that it would just be a perception more than anything else but I don't know if if others towns and uh and districts have it in their budget then we probably should have it in our budget just so we can compare each other if most other districts do it this way where the town takes the retirees then then that's fine too I it's not it's a it's a question of just comparison M I can follow up on how that would impact yeah my biggest concern would be if it were captured in the school budget would it be a negative or a positive as you said with with a state calculation or something like that and that may be why it's here I don't think it's included in the state calculation though to my knowledge I know it's reported on the end of year report that goes to desie because there's other costs um that aren't in the school bottom line right such is accounting um payroll um the Wester County Retirement portion of that is school are the insurance and the thing that's property and liability but that's a question I can look into okay yeah I just I'm not sure it would be nice to have it on a single budget single line so the active portion is approximately 1.3 million and the school retirees account for 1.4 million and town retirees account for 420,000 our health insurance renewal rates over the years have fluctuated as have our costs within the active and retire Insurance line items due to changes in enrollment and prospective retirees our rate renewal for active Insurance like I said will be 5.7 for fiscal 25 fiscal 24 was 6.2% fiscal 23 was 5.56% increase uh fiscal 22 was a decrease of 03 fiscal 21 was a66 rate increase fiscal 20 was a decrease um of 2.45% fiscal 19 was 6.82% and fiscal 18 was 5.63 so as you see it's um has fluctuated over the years part of the reason during the pandemic was obviously people weren't going to hospitals and um not getting the services and then they saw that Spike after when everyone started getting procedures and um but during that time we received the holiday premiums that resulted in about 600 uh sorry 369,000 in savings um that was put into the health insurance stabilization fund and we drew on that last year um 271,000 um was taken from that stabilization account to supplement health insurance cost and we'll be using the remainder of that this year for this year's budget what if we were to look at it as as a sort of percentage of the total I'm not sure exactly which number percentage of but the health insurance increases on a as a dollar amount compared to just like a two and a half% increase in Revenue on average is that trending higher in other words are we spending are our health insurance increas is outpacing our ability to Levy um is our health insurance our our health insurance on average eating up our Levy increases not our new not our new growth increases not our debt exclusion or just strictly I think you'd have to look at Dollar total dollar changes right CU those percentages and these numbers are comp versus percentages right would that be a calculation of what percentage uh our insurance costs are of the entire ominous budget and then calculate it from there no I think it would be more of a so for example between FY 24 call it 2.95 and preliminary at 3.13 so that's an increase of what 1 point I can't do math it's 10:00 at night but it's it's you know it's if and if our increase in in our Levy increased by I know we're at 32 A5 million but I don't remember what last year's Levy was I should know that 2 and a half% less than that I so so we're not exactly minus new growth in we're not exactly I guess I I'm just curious as to how how much of that of our of our of our 2 and a half% increase every year is health insurance eating up on average not this year versus last year but just over the last through the pandemic and whatnot just is it what's the rate of increase overall well health insurance is 6.3 Million Dollar on how much 40 on 50 million 50 million so it's 12% of our budget so if it goes up 6% yeah you could look at that year over year what per percent of the total budget and the town's been lucky the last well this year with 5.7 for active uh health insurance there were I just talked to somebody in Fitchburg there's was much higher much much higher than more than double what we had our meeting and our with our health insurance broker and our rep we were the only community that didn't have a double digit increase are they just holding off till next year or well the problem part of it has to do with our loss ratios and Maya um through the Health Trust they pull out the really large claims so that's a a big benefit as well of being part of that I I had one question T town retiree um actually went down even though went up is that just because there's fewer people enrollment that's driven by enrollment numbers so I guess doing it off of the total Omnibus budget doesn't take into account just the 2 and a half% increase that that incorporates all of our other Revenue in increases as well New Growth so I I would like to see it based just on our 2 and 1 half% increases because I think that's more of a granular idea as to is it trending in the same at the same rate because our new growth is going to fluctuate our debt our debt exclusions are going to increase and decrease over time but we know that our Levy is going to be we know it's going to be 2 and a half% of 30 of of next year's 32 and A5 million and then 2 and a half% after that so what percentage of that chunk is health insurance eating up over year over-ear so like if it's 30% of all new revenue is eaten up by health insurance increases that's that you know that's that would be the what you're looking for that kind of number yeah it's it's it's it sounds unsustainable I mean I think it's pretty obvious that and it's not lunenberg but it's and it's not just towns it's every business it's this is this is between um health insurance and and um and salaries those are the two things that are driving up the costs of everything um and health insurance has been I mean since the 90s probably it's you know every year it's 10 15 20 25 and some years it's it's been less the last few years but it's started to pick up again so it seems to be a uh a nationwide problem but I think I think it would be good to see and I think I mentioned at the last meeting I myself would like to know more about exactly what our policies are with with our employees because you know it's I see the numbers but what are they what you know what what do they actually get and is there a way to uh and I it sounds like we looked at it a couple of years ago to see are there ways to with bigger deductibles or health savings accounts and so on and so forth and U so all those things would be great uh to look at again and probably relook at it again a few years later because it is such a big number and it is such such a problem for us and for other cities and towns um do we hire did have we ever hired like a health broker health insurance we do have a health insurance broker okay so they they are pretty good at least my experience has been in the for-profit world that they are they know way more than will ever know their pulse on yeah the healthcare industry they're they know the right questions to ask um Blue Cross and you know right and how to get it data yes MH have we ever is there any way we could self-insure is that something that we've ever um yeah I think I mean I think we have a really good plan it sounds like it I mean just based on what we got right um May good plan cost wise or good plan benefit wise I I think Fair benefits um but cost-wise I think it's um if you compared it to and I've spoken with other communities about the GIC um people are not happy with um the GIC what do we have for General options just very high level I mean do we have high deductible do we have do we have like three or four different options couple uh different plans um we added a uh select plan so it's a single plan um there's a PO HMO um so there's there's other there's options for that and then we have looked at you know tiered type options as well with the PC do we have a high deductible HSA option at all like do we have a high deductible HSA option or anything like that so the H the health savings account well so for example my company we have a high deductible plan and usually Incorporated with that for us we have a health savings account that gets that you dump money into because you're going to need it that's optional for um employees to or a flexible savings account okay same idea okay but we do have that as an option a health savings account is different than a flexible spending account yeah the health savings account is he has money you put it in the into Fidelity mine's Fidelity it grows with the stock market if you don't no this is then um but I'm pretty sure they call it a flexible savings account that's different that's different but it's used for health insurance it augments health insurance yeah the only way to get usually the only way to get on an HSA is if you're on a high deductible plan right yeah yeah if you're going to be on an FS or yeah fsse for dependent care or for medical that's just your standard health insurance plans my old employer had a um had two plans one a low and a high deductible and what we tried to educate our employees was that take that extra money in from the premium and put it in your health savings account um with a high deductible you'll actually be better off and uh even if you spent because it it obviously for the insurance companies if they have a huge deductible they're going to reduce their premium uh so it was it was a dollar dollar it was almost you know it the math was easy to to to do and what happened is that people started putting money in there and if they didn't use the full deductible well then they that meant they had money in their health savings account for next year to fund the next deductible and if they built up a thing then they might not even have to do that for a while so you have it had to it had to it had to work out but it is a complicated I I was on the committee at my employer that did it very complicated and the broker was extremely helpful in explaining it but it's not it's not as easy as you think to to understand it it's it's by definition health insurance is they make it complicated because it probably benefits the insurance companies The Branding Department gave it a pretty bad name because it's actually better than it sounds it sounds negative High deductible plan but with the HSA it works out pretty good after the first depends on your your own person no just hope nobody gets their arm broken in the first year in the first month of the first year lot of kids going yeah going to the hospital I have a personal HS oh sorry through my town and the town actually contributes every year to it as an incentive yeah for people to go that way now the account I had until I work stopped working in October I got through the company I was working for they contributed each year towards it and you're allowed to Max maimum amount based on something I don't know what it's based on uh but that account came with me into retirement y yeah you keep it forever and it gets invested in as well is it something we can look in they don't does does Maya offer that um that I don't know um it would be a great way to save money for um you have to use it within right a year that's an fsse yeah FSA yeah FSA thank you FSA that's what I said right earlier it is yes I said FSE that was that was my mistake not yours that's what I like about this F FSA is that uh HSA excuse me because I knew I wasn't going to be employed for a long time but that account was going to come with me into retirement and I can still contribute to it tax deferred every year for my own income and offset yep my tax liability so and and use it for purchases I've got a debit card that draws against the account right it's a nice setup if it's something we can look into I mean it it would offer a savings at least in general for overall premiums if people take it that's something we can bring you know look at and because again I have to go to the PC to I'd like to just know more about what we currently offer and then that would be the first thing for us to for me to do is to understand that better and then see what we've done in the past and then you know see about the future because I think obviously I I don't have enough knowledge about what we offer now as a committee we talked about having requesting a Maya to come and talk to us yeah whatever it takes just so we could annoy them I think that's our posted on the website town website under HR uh it should be under HR I think okay yeah they are posted there's information there well do they have actually post what the plan and the cost for family individual I believe so I haven't looked at that in a little bit if they're up there but all that information should be on the town website it should be readily available for anybody to look at you could check right now I can't Pro I'm projecting well I don't recall seeing it that's why I asked it would be under the human resources my battery is dead so I can't W it up payroll for unclass in other categories the workers comp and liability insurances are estimated at a 5% increase the police fire injured on duty insurance is also estimated a 5% increase Medicare costs are estimated a 10% increase the assessment for monachus planning is $106 increase that's an assessment we already received for next year salary Reserve estimate is decreased from 199,000 to 100,000 if you remember we increased the salary resered at the fall town meeting for fiscal 24 because we had available um uh tax levy um due to adjustment of our um before our pro forma recap was submitted same with the reserve fund estimate um we increased that at the special town meeting to 275 um that number will be 100,000 for the reserve you say that you mean from fiscal 24 to fiscal 2 okay and the other categories under unclassified such as band concerts life insurance insurance cost control training historical Commission unemployment Town reports and physicals are all level funded this slide is the debt service schedule up until fiscal 28 so for the fiscal 25 Debt Service the elementary school high school heating system exempt debt is retiring uh this year and that's $163,800 35,1 148 the meow Woods water debt decreases by $1,250 and our msba payment for old school project um is reduced from $59,99 to $4 and 20 20 don't forget yeah 20 so so is it in your longer term plan we're down almost to no net regular debt are you planning on any of the upcoming projects you using that 4% available well um so let me get to that uh when we look at so according to our policies and I've said this a number of times we have capacity according to our policy but we do not have capacity within the operating budget so if we look at um if we're to imagine at this to meeting taking on debt that would we'd have to be um paying principal and interest on there's no capacity right now um so we will have to look at um because there are a number of projects coming up that will require borrowing both exempt and non-exempt debt and we are having those conversations that definitely needs to be a larger conversation with all the stakeholders um and board committee members involved and and um how we align those um the terms the the length of projects when they need to come on when they're falling off what type of debt so we can plan that en our long-term forecast and how that's going to impact the operating budget is there a schedule for when that conversation is going to start happening because I think it should happen yesterday yesterday because I mean from the meeting that we had it sounds like there's already a $30 million project in the works which those are also you know there's decisions that need to be made what is going to happen with the TCP this building the Ritter building what is going to happen with Turkey Hill is it going to be a complete tear down is it going to be a new rebuild you know those are all factors that are going to affect yeah the borrowing and going back to what you said chairman that the since other things are taking up a large percentage of the budget Debt Service is the one that may is is getting getting pushed out and the town might not be able to afford things that as we have percentage numbers oh yeah this percentage is of debt service is fine but if you don't have the income to pay it you know that's biggy that's what like to know you can pay your debts back but if you can't you doesn't matter what your ratios are it's it's self-paying though because you're going you have you Levy it separate from the Reg Levy itself if you if you have an excludable debt if it's exempt debt an exempt debt you're going You're if a million dollars you are going to Levy a million dollars in addition to the regular Levy to pay for it right but aren't you saying that we're also in a position where we can't afford short-term borrowing out of our available Revenue non-exempt right right not exempt the net regular debt right we're not in a position to take any on at this point definitely not at this town meeting suggested and that's why we need to start having the conversation now because these projects are coming fast um right and Jay to answer your question it was based on from what I understand the the municipal building design committee for the Ritter updating the Ritter putting an Annex on the Ritter updating down hall and getting TCP ready as well updating TCP to an extent yeah with a partial demo with or something I I don't know I lost track of a lot of that right but the rough number for like next year is 30 million that that's why I I think I was thinking back to the end of the pasos Redevelopment or whatever you want to call that that whole era um that we've we actually ran the numbers and we had the capacity for Exempted debt 42 million 28 or30 million 42 42 million 42 million over X number of years right right so we had that capacity but not not on at this point not on the other side of the coin because as you said a few minutes ago Exempted debt automatically jumps on top of the uh the revenues anyway and there's other operating costs that have been kind of shifted because of increasing costs so this next slide just um outlines where our total debt service is 2,941 322 um part of that is exempt debt for the $2,313 1898 the sewer Enterprise pays for $ 31,6 68 the water Enterprise pays for 56,000 $338 and the msba payment pays for that $422 um so the total impact to the general fund is [Music] $259,400 so could you I still don't understand why this falls in the general fund because none of these monies are coming directly from it falls under the line item detail budget the whole maturing debt and interest um principle and interest payments right and then it's supplemented by those other sources so in the motion when it's funded um the Enterprise amount is included in that motion as well as the water bement amount should it be though yes yeah it's not raising appropriate right it comes out ofer prise but it is rais in appropriate the the tax outside of prop two and a half is rais and appropriate it has to be but it's still a rais and appropriate that's above and beyond I'm talking all four of them there a mixture of them what is tax outside prop to and a half de it's debt spending that it's excludable debt it's right you are raising that amount though right but the sewer betterment and the water better you're not that's why the motion tells you that that source is coming from the Enterprise so it's being the first line you raise in appropriate the second two come from Enterprise funds and what's msba that that come as comes in as a general receipt so that get goes towards that um so that there's a revenue source for that portion of the debt is it is there a revenue source for that portion for msba funding yes it's a payment to the town right but this is this is saying that we have to expend $4.20 for msba and we receive that from the state so that's an old msba project okay so that goes that's it's it was done differently okay when that project was so I think that's why it makes sense to be called out these four ways because they have four different Revenue sources associated with them but I guess I don't know to me it's it's outside of the Omnibus budget to an effect because it it is they're self-funding project they're entirely self-funded it it's outside of what we raise and appropriate under the two and a half it's outside of everything right but if you looked at a balance sheet those sources of funding that are going towards paying that that are covered on your your Revenue incoming Revenue so it's offsetting that cost on the expense side like when you said we had a $50 million budget that includes that includes these reductions it includes the source of Revenue and includes a source of Revenue that are paying for those costs but that's kind of what I'm getting at the source of the revenue is is already determined regardless of whether or not we approve it yeah but it's our debt we just have a someone paying it for us I guess I guess my my point is is is that to to include this in the $50 million budget it's sort of falsely inflates the budget to look larger than it is when none of this actually matters for the budget because it's it's going to go in and it's going to come right back out and there's not a discretionary spending in any of it so if anything our budget it's called non-discretionary right right but if we were to say $50 million it's really more like $47 million is our actual budget because what we're budgeting is $47 million we have to pay $2.9 million it's it's sort of put it in the budget and calculate it as increases like if we're going to say we're going to increase this line item by 2% this year it's taking into account $3 million of additional spending that's not really in there yeah but the 50 million is outside of taxes too the 50 million includes sewer bents and water benit and msba and Chapter 70 and chapter 90 and yep unrestricted government but not chapter 90 just your argument the same as Mr beard Moes was a few weeks ago based on it's possible it's been a long few weeks School side cuz he was talking about Exempted debt being included in those numbers uh inflating the 50 whatever perent you want to call the school budget of the total ominous budget it's very possible it's been a very long few weeks I think his point was it's not the Exempted debt it's the the net regular debt service line um it has been steadily reducing from like 4% to less than that to almost zer so therefore we're just picking that up on the operation the side of the operations is benefiting from that reduction so it's kind of artificially going up by by more because of that 4% going down to Z as debt has fallen off and it's not huge you know change right here as my mortgage goes away I can go out to dinner more right what he's right but doesn't that doesn't that leave us in the position where we're never going to be able to spend we're never going to be able to borrow the the let me go back up to it we're never going to be able to borrow net regular debt anymore because if we're spending 4.81% right and as as we're reducing that percent if we're using it we lose it but losing that capacity if we don't start the budget back up to being able to to pay for right large items that are not excludable right that we don't choose to go for a debt exclusion on do we have a plan for that we need to develop a plan that's what I was saying where we need all the stakeholders involved to see when all those projects are going to be coming on when they're falling off their amounts all those numbers are and that's why I asked even for like the chapter 90 portion of it maybe it's great that we have one chapter 990 isn't a a revenue Source though it's a reimbursement program so it's basically an imaginary it's number on the books that we have available to submit reimbursement for to the state okay but my point being that it it is a source of funding right that we could we need to be factoring in for all these infrastructure projects and for every maybe capital projects so I think we need this holis view of how we're going to fund for everything not just what is paid for out of raise in appropriate like we've kind of been focused on over the last couple of years and with large projects on the horizon we need to figure out how we're going to how we're going to do that well if it's excludable we know how we're going to do it it just increases the tax levy regardless of whether not you want it to your only option is to vote on an town meeting to approve that construction project as excludable debt but for the net regular debt for non-excludable right now we don't have a way to pay for it or through an override that would increase your your base an override could get you to net regular debt right true okay but I so I guess my question is more right now we don't have even if we don't have a plan for what we're going to spend coming up we don't have a plan at this point to fund the ability to spend nonexcludable debt without making Cuts in other areas should we be doing that should we be preparing for that ahead of time before we even have the conversation of how much do you want to spend shouldn't we say we can afford it or here's what we can afford well before we numb how we're going to afford it I mean pick one say a million dollar how are we going to afford a million dollars in non-excludable debt it doesn't matter what the value is as long as it's under 4% of the policy we know what the policy is we can calculate what the maximum number would be and we can take 50% of that and just say how are we going to afford 50% and are those good percentages um right maybe they're too high um because we have heard that from um you know our debt ratio was high at 4% and 11% yes that's considered high mhm either either one specifically or just one or the other well 14 is the total total yeah I I think it was both we've had this conversation a couple of times over the past five years in in fincom and there was actually at one time and it it it hasn't happened but we were almost going to dive into assessing that and see if it needed to be reduced but we've got mired and other issues that were bigger fish to kill at the time I mean is there concern of if we hit you know 10.98% of excludable debt does that drop our bond rating potentially at that percentage it it would affect our bond rating would it affect it at 9% or yeah that's kind of it's it just just seems very much like instead of just I mean the tree hasn't even been planted for the cart to go in front of the horse it's just I I think this is a lot of the argument as to why we're un we're not ready to put a two and a half override on the ballot this time right now I feel like we need to address the holistic Al what that 2 and A2 needs to be looking out and looking long term yes looking long term looking out 10 years what's our Capital lay over that what's our infrastructure cost out of that roads all these projects that we either need to do or want to do in town that's assuming that you're only going to do one override I think I mean there are plenty of of municipalities that do overrides for ridiculously small amounts of money well not plenty of over them I I think there's outlier cases on like nant Tucket which have an odd way of budgeting Weston does it too I I just I I think we are not Weston no but I'm saying I I think there's a shortterm and a long-term issue this the shortterm issue with a two and a half today is is school funding I think probably a question for us to talk about maybe not just us but others um after the budget season is what is the long-term plan how do we do this how do we get from here to where we want to be which is having facilities that we think we need and how do we get there or is is it possible and what will that require I don't know the answer to it but I don't think we'll decide it here today but I also don't think we'll decide it before May 1st or May May 4th May 4th Star Wars day got to remember that May 5th we'll have it figured out we will have no idea you're assuming the meeting's going to be over by May 5th actually if you looked at my calendar I have it from 9:00 through 11:00 p.m. so I am I am not expecting to uh it to be a short meeting but I I think it is it is a discussion that we need to have and I think others uh in the town need to have um and it needs to be holistic I think that's and I think we've been talking about well we want to build this building it's going to cost $30 million here over and we got we have some answers there but we don't have all the answers but we know those okay so how do we get there if that's what we want to do and then we figure it out it's it's just and uh if it's okay we're going to have to do this and people go well I'm not going to I don't want that because it's going to raise my taxes too much okay then let's figure out what else we going to do how do we get to the next place but that's kind of how we have to think about it and it's going to take time and it's going to take educating both ourselves and the public on what it is so when they know that my taxes are going up a, bucks this year it's for these six things mhm and I agree it's it's the the the the two and a half this year is definitely a short-term you know put your finger in the Dyke kind of thing um but that's maybe what's necessary for the short term but that's that's for us to dis that's for the town to discuss on on May 4th I I I think I think a holistic appro while a holistic approach is great it doesn't address imminent needs that come up sporadically having the ability to build a building in 3 years there's plenty of time to have that conversation and to do the holistic approach to it or just to go through through and say are we do a do a uh salary comparison study and say do we need to do an override to increase X Y and Z positions or so many steps but at the same time there are emergencies that come up that I think can absolutely be considered for an override and they don't H I don't think we have to do them all together at the same time and if we do that we have buildings that we just had to knock down because we couldn't get our act together and actually pass anything we just knocked the building down for that so if we're doing the same approach for an override we're never going to have an override and I think the idea to say that we have to do it all or nothing is it doesn't make sense because the needs are different right now the needs are the schools the schools are not being able to fund themselves properly I have no idea how they voted this evening but they were looking at voting for a needs-based budget that's still going to cut 20 positions that's not no 19 19.7 that includes us our positions which were off the table 12 positions okay it's still okay still 12 positions it's still going to remove an assistant principal from the Middle High School it's still going to remove ban from fifth grade there are things that are still going to be cut that I think taking that holistic approach and and and lumping that issue into what are we going to do with TCP doesn't make any sense because there is a glaring issue that's happening right now and we have other issues that we need to take care of as well I agree but they're not they're not as glaring so to it just it doesn't make sense to me to say we have to look at this from a holistic standpoint for everything altogether I don't know I I think you need the holistic look and I'm only the the other thing that we I don't believe we've ever used but a couple of the uh local budding towns uh have used um one in particular is Ashby and I think they still do it is they do Capital exemptions for one year so it's a oneandone deal mhm and you know they they did it a few a number of years back when they needed to I think it was replace the police station and they had three or four huge projects and the taxpayers were educated as to what they were doing why they were doing it and how much it was going to cost them in one single year's tax pill they approved it because ashb sent a debacle many years ago on a purchase of a fire TR refuses to take on debt for more than a year that's a serious bill yeah see I that's a ridiculously high bill for one year depending on how much money you're you're not taking on yeah I mean you're talking thousands of dollars of increase to your taxes but but we talk about the in uh affluence of lunenberg uh I'd like to see the comparison to Ashby and their citizens were confident that they could take that debt on for one year and then be done with it I I think we have to stop saying that lunenberg is a poor town or is a not an affluent town if you look at the numbers if you look at how our our chapter funding is going the state considered considers us to be a wealthy down we are not lower middle class we are not middle class we are pushing upper middle class yeah and that doesn't mean that that's the solid distribution across the whole Spectrum yes of course it's going to be spread out and you're going to have fringes that are not in that group and that is terrible and there needs to be ways to to bring that up on both sides of it obviously as well well maybe not the high side on the low side but we're not going to get extra funding I don't care if the State House goes back and Rel looks at this at the the small changes they want to make to Chapter 70 we're not going to get more money the state thinks that we are supposed to fund our schools to a certain amount they think that we're supposed to fund our roads to a certain amount it's just it's not going to get better so not going to get more money if we keep electing the same people we elect I'll tell you that much their priorities are not on schools they can say that all they want their priorities are elsewhere and I pay a lot of money money in state taxes a lot of money and it should be coming back to our communities and to say now go pay a lot of money that's not coming back to communities and increase your taxes guess what I can move and four more kids can come into the school district cuz there's nothing in this town for people like me nothing there's no services this it's like the most boring town in the world for isn't it I mean I think there's a great sense of community here yeah yeah I think that's I don't I I think that's an opinion and I think you can and and people you know always say oh I'm going to leave the town and that's obviously their choice uh I think ultimately the town has to do uh I think I agree with the chairman that the state is not going to be giving wealthy towns more more money as a percentage of of the money they give out when there are towns that are in desperate need of of funding um who are not as wealthy as as we are um and I don't you know we can elect whoever we want to elect um but that's the reality of the of the world that we live in I I think and I think uh we have to understand that and move forward uh with that if we can figure a way to get a few extra dollars out out of the state I'm not against it but um again I'm not I'm not going to I've said this before if there's a you know a $100,000 I could go to lunenberg and that's going to do something but the town of Brockton needs it just because they've been in the news with all their problems it's hard for me to say I don't want to you Brockton should have that money to do good things with because they really need it because they're underfunded and they have all all sorts of problems that we don't have our kids couldn't imagine the problems that they have so I think that's that's I think and and if you know depends on how the town feels though that's if people feel well no I'd rather keep the $100,000 and put and do it for our town then that's fine too we can you know and then we can elect people for our at the state at the State House that will support that that's one thing that always works in the background too is that I think any particular group of taxpayers in any particular municipality if they would be willing to go on their own if there weren't all these unfunded mandates that they needed to cover also and and I think that's where the demand of money out of the state comes from is that we keep getting hit with un unfunded mandates from the state and federal government uh if we didn't have those then you know a town like lunberg would go on its own I believe I think the taxpayers would be much more willing to to Shell out their tax dollars if they knew it was truly and 100% benefiting the town on things that we've decided we need to do and and should do versus unfunded mandates that we don't necessarily need I guess for me to to say that we pay a ton of taxes into the state while that's true for our income tax obviously and we get a very small percentage of that back 100% of our property taxes comes back to lunenberg 100% it's the best way to in to to it's the highest value for the dollar that we're going to find it is the largest amount of change that can be made directly for the town is through that Revenue source so if there are things that don't exist in the town that for for age groups or for for sections of the town that is the best way that you're going to get it is is to say hey we want this and this is why we want it and this is what it's for now let's go and get it that's you're going to the only way you're going to get that funding other than through Grant programs is going to be from yourselves and that's property it's the only way that's going to be funded or you say hey schools impose more fees you're the ones getting the benefit of this put fees on it fees on what fifth grade ban Sports busing everything so instead so that's shifted directly to the consumer the same way I pay fee to put out my trash that comes back to the premise of the the benefit of the greater good and and like anything else this the school systems eat up a lot they eat up a lot of the money in the town and and the benefits of those are children right and people have said well we all benefit by having well-educated kids and I think that is true um the the problem with increasing real estate taxes is that there are people who have very expensive homes that bought them for 40 years ago who don't have the income to pay the higher taxes that is a problem and and I I think uh uh our um selectman um um two of them I think talked about a way that you know we could figure a way to help those people who don't have the income many and I'm not saying I don't know the percentage but um and doly and from some numbers that I read the wealthiest group of people in this country are people over 6 they have assets and they have income and they they have lots of money not everybody and and so how do we help people who've been living here for 30 or 40 years who who now have a $500,000 house that they bought for $75,000 and they got to pay $8,000 in in taxes and they don't have the enough money well we can figure that out but what that means is that everybody else the uh pays a little bit more to help offset that cost and uh so even so the the wealthier people in town pay a little extra because the people who don't have as much money pay a little less that's and you know um if it's going to be well I'm I am me and I make this and I spend this I want that back and for me is in my tax is for me personally then then that's not a government that's not a that's not a um that's not how government works government takes stuff and and just and separates it out and sends it out to different areas for the total good of the society and I think I think you know so I I don't think that model of you know I I want what I get I get I want what I put in I want it back that doesn't work all the time and it probably isn't beneficial for the state or for the or for this or for the town or for the country and are you're talking liberal versus conservative politics and no you you can be conservative and have that thought too there's no the other thing that I've keyed into in the last excuse me year or two and and looked at a number of different programs even in other states and so on is that you know we've spent a lot of time talking about um finding a way to help support seniors by reducing their taxes and so on and so forth well my take on what we've done so far and what's available out there for seniors um there's a very small percentage that are eligible for those uh impr their uh reductions why is that though because of the um asset asset level ma maximum asset level uh that's allowed real real assets and cash and so on and so forth um I I'll tell you a point in my case I've worked 60 plus years under Social Security so I get a what I consider a decent social security income it blows me out of the water on any benefit programs yeah because I'm over I'm over the income limit yeah so yes we're we're we're saying we're we're trying to do things for seniors but I mean even what the assessors have done over the past few weeks uh the initial I think it was the age change they calculated that that only would cost the town $2500 five to 10 more people five to 10 more homes five to 10 more out of and that and that brought it from like 12 to 17 or 20 to 30 20 to 30 okay I think is what it was something like that right and and the percentage numbers that we keep kicking around I was on a on um actually I don't even know what website it was but it listed our our senior uh percentage of our senior population but it was age 70 and up at 177% so that other 133% is between 65 and 70 I I yeah I was on the it's on the census website because I saw the same thing I was trying to figure out what where the 30% comes from and I I'm not saying I disagree with the 30% of of households are seniors but the only number that I could find was from the the most recent census and it's 70 plus and it's 177% right right which I don't know yeah but but I I truly believe where that number is being calculated from either age 65 up or 60 up I'm really not 100% sure which and there was no way to toggle yeah it's terrible it's a terrible yeah I was very unimpressed with that website and it's not going to get any better as far as percent percentages as the baby boom finally all of us in the baby boom generation gets into the 65 and 70 and over it's going to be a higher percentage it's just the demographics of I mean of the country but a probably of of lunenberg too so it's going to be a bigger issue um um you know as far as having seniors and people without children in town and the question will be is are they willing to spend the money on an education even though their kids aren't going to school here they've already gone somewhere else or here right I was looking on the New Hampshire site for similar discounts for seniors and stuff and I came across this at what age in New Hampshire can you can seniors stop paying stop paying real estate tax totally and it it was fairly young it was either 65 or 70 but toal uh to qualify for it again any any asset you own or minimal income blew you out of the program you're not eligible and it so you need to live in a you need to live in a tar paper Shack that's 6x6 on a 2,000 square foot piece of property um to qualify the the the some part of it the the a lot of the seniors are not poor they're just they're not they're cash poor they have a very expensive asset in a house uh I know I had a family member who was um who um passed away she' been in the home and a and a assisted living um for a number of years and the um Medicare and Medicaid uh the Medicare rather uh put a lean on her house and when she finally died the house was sold and they got their money back I you know that you know and that could that be a a process where okay if somebody can't afford their taxes today okay is there a process that be a state level thing where you could you know offset some of that expense by you know borrowing against the equity in your house and when you go when you sell it you you have to pay it pay it back that that could be a way the town could get their money through the state and the state could B like like you know I think there's ways you could think about this um and this is not a LUN ber thing again it's probably a Statewide thing but way to a lot of older people who who are Houser but cash poor and that's the majority of of the kind of people that would be talking about my taxes are going up because if you know because your ta because your house is worth a lot now so I'm on the census website it's 65 and over is 177% it was 65 and under 18 is 22% so I'm I'm I'm really curious where we're getting these percentages from of 30% of the town is senior I I i' I'd love to have they're going as low 50 I I would I'm I'm yeah I just I would love to have the actual data for it to say like this is what which yeah that would be wonderfully helpful Mr chair uh um has this horse been beaten I'm wondering how much more presentation the town manager that that literally just we're having we're having a great conversation I found the answer to a previous while I I was here with her till 11:00 last night she's got an hour plus ride home and she's probably going to be stuck here again tomorrow night so i' I'd like to be able to let her finish her portion are you playing solitarily as well no no um Jay had asked about um all the employee benefits and health it is on the website human resource um there's a on the sidebar there's an employee benefits Tab and if you scroll down it has all the health information dental vision all the optional insurances that we carry in I didn't sheets and lots of information on a quick look over though I did not see a high deductible policy at least by listing that the names it could be in there without I did a quick scan yeah each plan is in that like blue CaRu right um so if you click on those there p in there there's the sheets on each of those and there might be a way to actually say you for me I'm going to look at it and see if it's what's there and that's good to know but I did have shall we continue one slide left oh this is a one slide sorry it's a it's a long slide don't worry now 15 minutes later you can your slide and it is the just highlights for future years of debt so for I already covered fiscal 25 for fiscal 26 the library exempt debt and ladder for uh the ladder truck and SRA property uh general fund debt will retire um in fiscal 25 so that will fall off for 26 for fiscal 30 the artificial turfield general fund debt um that was bonded in 2017 will retire in 2029 the pavement management excludible debt bonded in 2020 retires in um 35 so that will affect fiscal 36 and the middle school high school exal debt retires in fiscal 45 which um will affect fiscal 46 and meadowwoods USDA debt for water and sewer retires in fiscal 47 that will impact fiscal 48 and that's all I have for tonight are there any questions can we I've asked all of mine thank you I have 15 questions with 16 [Laughter] follow-ups oh boy regarding um employee benefits when we talking about um part-time full-time and benefit and non-benefit uh don't employees have to be um vested 10 years before they collect pension uh no they once they reach 20 hours and benefited they start contributing to Wester County Retirement before that they contribute to obra which is yeah one can they actually actually collect on that oh retire from the system it's a it's a sliding scale of age and number of years service so I've always heard that they have to they have to have 10 years 10 years and a 55 of age um yeah to be able to collect the pension right the most people this short term they usually take it out because they're going to reinvest it somewhere else yeah I don't know those numbers oh I know but just when we talk about parttime you know somebody usually has to be here long term to get the benefit of a pension people are only here for a few years if they've paid into it they usually take it with them because they're going to reinvest it somewhere else where they move on to another community and um they contribute in that community and retire somewhere else any other questions I think I'm good at this point okay thank you thank you thank you thank you welcome safe travels thanks are there any public com comments from the public that shut up up on Zoom yourself I'm the only one on Zoom right now all right moving on to Warrant article discussion uh we have an updated uh set of Warrant articles that were submitted by the town manager that include uh let's see local Wetlands protection bylaw fees the prop two and a half for the schools has at least has language now not a number uh the sap warrant articles now have language but still no numbers as well and then we also have the Personnel committees they the their yeah all of the sap 1es are in now and then and let's see there were some put in here from the town manager the um oh the estate exemption for taxpayers who are granted personal exemption for the Dom okay uh Board of assessors is in here but not the actual numbers the adoption of I think it was Mr Alonzo did the research for it yes the historic app from was it 2008 oh no that's the trustee I'm sorry that's for the yeah uh opab liability trust fund zoning code not going to affect us the planning board articles now have language as well [Music] stabilization quickly gone from like 10 pages to 28 pages not the planning boards in here water supply district has also got their language in here and I think that's everything that's been added okay so at this point we have all of the articles that we're going to have with language we're just missing numbers now the fair corre the town okay okay so still have language changes from Town Council planning board will have their meeting on Monday to go over theirs otherwise we are up to is it double a double A something like that so not too terrible some of those will come out I'm sure and we'll have consent calendar ones any conversation anyone wants to have about the Articles as presented we don't have any numbers so nothing to talk about yet uh warrant report um just one very quick thing Heather there was one article that uh the school committee is going to be pulling is that correct they just did to take out yeah I'm sorry dragg you up to the microphone last night the select board also reallocated arpa funding to cover the network upgrade equipment the 911 compliant phone system and Chromebooks so that total was um $221,600 that will come out of of the school's budget and be paid through arpa and I've already um made it um clear that my recommended budget will also include pausing the pavement management plan um so that would reallocate 50,000 towards the school need SP pausing the increase pausing the increase yet so not including 50,000 in the payement management this year including that towards the school bottom line Heather Could you actually possibly or or excuse me if we get waiter later into 25 we could still move 50,000 out of um chapter 90 to cover that pause of 50,000 in the pavement management if for some reason a reason comes up that we need it we really needed it in there yes yep that move it from chapter 90 I thought it had to be chapter 90 reimbursement so it could cover right you'd have to spend you'd have to spend it use it but the DPW director and I are working on a long-term plan okay for that $2 million for pavement management chapter 90 you know those funding sources and infrastructure tree everything or um this well chapter 90 can cover anything you know roadway you know equipment that kind of stuff drainage um sidewalks so but there like I've said there's definitely more needs than there is funding so uh out of those two sources a plan for those two sources the school committee voted to remove the article they did okay and I got a text that they voted um four to one on 5.4 4% budget the needs based budget but that they're also still in support of the override yes at the 8 point whatever percent it would be right that should be interesting going forward exactly I'm literally getting TI they must have just wrapped oh the lights are off so they can't be in the schools past 10:30 oh yeah right you guys beat them we did well they started at 6:30 so we still have another halfen we're not going to use it um so we have our warrant report due Miss tarz isn't here this evening I'm fine with kicking this one for now even though I think tomorrow is going to be a longer meeting at least we can we can have it I think during the the budget hearing perhaps or the uh the U public hearing meeting problem no we can't because that's actually a question I want to ask for you so is the April SE 2nd an absolute drop dead date if we wanted in the warrant yes I have to finalize okay you're talking about the annual report from the finance committee correct that's required too isn't it no no under Charter we're required to do one but it's not requ last year we did it we did it just didn't go in the art it we didn't do it last year in time for the warrant right right that town okay as long as forever to write disted okay yeah the problem we have is we have a public hearing and no meeting before the second right the second that's Tuesday Tuesday are we going to have a final uh ominous budget before the public hearing my plan for tomorrow night waiting for tonight so for tomorrow night but we only have one won't have it tomorrow right so we'll have it on the 28th which is the public hearing yeah so there's just no way to get to the second we can't vote on that unless we plug in another meeting next week even if we plug in another meeting we're still not going to have the public hearing we should be doing it after the public hearing right I'm sorry so we have the public so we have tomorrow night's meeting on the 21st and then a week later on the 28th we have the public hearing we should then have the report have a meeting after that to finalize the report and vote on it and vote on it okay but the problem is that that's 5 days before it's due so I guess we're meeting on Friday the 29th or Monday the or Monday the 1st right April Fool's Day I'm not meeting on Friday the 29th I don't know why everybody's against Fridays but I understand if you have something going on my feeling we're going to have to plug another meeting in there somewhere or we're going to have to run make a zoom meeting a 12-hour meeting I don't think we can do that anymore why well someone's got to write the report after the 28 Tiffany's going to she's already AG to I understand I talked to her today but she has to actually physically write something after the 28th right and then we have to be able to read it and agree to it and make Chang it so we're meeting April Fool's Day are we allowed to meet completely remote still we are okay yeah so um conservation does it all the time I I I think April 2nd's an unrealistic date unreasonable date meet on Sunday then not me I won't be question is so how how important it is to us to have it either in the mailing or to have it handed out at at the um at the town meeting um where people are probably might read it or might not I don't know I mean that's that's ultimately what's the value to the town and what's the Val and what do we think is important if we think it's important enough then we do it on April 1 if we if we're don't think it is then okay let's we'll do it on the third or fourth whenever and get it out to them when we do I think I think this year of all years it needs to be in there I was going to say for historical for ease of historical research it really needs to be in the warrant and then it ends up in the town report as part of the warrant right so that end up in the annual report any in any way we do it yeah it'll I mean it won't get lost to history but it but the thing is between now and between the time they get it when they get the warrants and they're saying what does the finance committee think they'll have something but again it's maybe maybe after tonight they'll go like we don't care what the finance committee thinks could we could we have until the 4th right could we if we were to pull together a special meeting on the 1st after the 28th a remote meeting on the 1st to Workshop it finalize it distribute it have three days to kind of send back responses individually and then vote on it on the 4th that at least would get us meeting on the fourth not yet what the is the for the THS it's a Thursday we got to look at this calendar cuz this calendar frankly just doesn't work I agree we're up we're up against the wall every single year on I don't want to rush out a report on this I think we need deliberation on it we need to make our opinions known and put something meaningful and I don't think one draft's going to do it well if that's the case then we should at least get points down for now we can put something generic together for the okay I we can highlight what the issues are I guess but then let's workshop at least quickly I know it's 10:30 but if we don't have a lot of time to do this we at least we don't even have two members here one of which correct has our own opinion of writing waren articles well regardless I mean that's a private citizen at this point that was not put forward as a finance committee article I'm just saying that she has opinions obviously that would want to go into a of course no this is just to have at least to have something started for what are the main talking points what is it what do we want to at least address that we can then form work out afterwards I think one of the major things that needs to be in the report is some kind of table or graph that shows based on your value of your house what your increase would be and there's no such thing as an average house in town right I mean I would say if your house is worth $200,000 this is what it would be if it's 300,000 this is what it would be DLS does that it's easy it's I'm saying it's a super easy thing to pick and to pull right out yeah I mean at some point it's just a linear formula exactly what it is yeah um you're talking about the override Chris yeah for the override yeah I mean clearly that's going to be the topic of discussion that that's going to that spreadsheets going to be created whether we do it or or or not yeah no I know but again that's but I age there that's going to be the critical portion of this this budget honestly I think every Department's request has been reasonable this year in my opinion I don't see anything unreasonable on it and then the only other thing that I always like to hit on is that there's a lot of things like we have this discussion on going forward that are going to need the attention of the town so that we maintain Services fix buildings deal with infrastructure you know and maintaina and that's going to that's going to require healthy discussion amongst all the boards I think it's going to be important to have at least a paragraph in there kind of chronicling these deeper approach that we took as a as a board this year through the budget process because we we've gone deeper into the budget than I think any finance committee has done in decades digging right down to the individual lines and questioning every dollar and and so on you know most of the way through the process so even if that's in the Preamble uh paragraph I think that should be stated and then and then the other concerns uh fall in place after that and after working with Tiffany you give her that and she'll come up with a whole paragraph that'll make sense okay other topics want to talk about forecasting do we want to address debt capacity spending do we want to address well I think obviously that is going to be a you know talking about the future we we you know there's been a lot of talk about uh Renovations of buildings and additions to buildings and currently the town doesn't you know we need to figure out how are we going to be able to do that and that will that's needs to be discussed I don't think I don't know if we'll have an we won't have an answer to it but I think we need to prepare the town for that we kind of discussed it here that that that same feeling of talking about it and figuring out and getting a consensus by the town what do we want to do and making it clear of what the town manager presented to us earlier that right at the moment if we don't take action we're not going to have debt capacity um except for Exempted borrowing or say something to the effect that you know a solution for that is in the process because that's uh I I don't know about that I would say yeah well no I know anything like she has the solution already excuse me um you know those types of things I think we have the town manager just agree with with what we're saying there because that came out of my mouth because of our conversation but it wasn't necessarily accurate you're right yeah I know what you mean but yeah we gave you the 10 1047 break 1049 break 41 I can't even tell time right now um okay is the capital plan the same same projects no additions or removals okay we usually do address the capital plan so there's no uh rais an appropriate going into it at all okay thank you by the way that was an answer no I'm sorry 40 oh 40s L 40s funding thank you we don't have a limit to how many pages this is do we well that's fair yeah what was our fair share funding for Chapter 70 or for 40s no fair share from the 4% millionair is tax oh I don't think we've ever seen that got 23 something, didn't we did we we get money from fair share didn't we we haven't seen that though what was it 230 we've only heard a number we haven't received it I thought we received it yes it's in the chapter that's where they put it in chapter 9 so meaning we don't get it till we get I'm just saying I haven't seen a document that laid out that number I only saw it in the newspaper that we were supposed to rece it she did 230,000 roughly okay it I mean it's clearly it doesn't need to be exact it's a small number and 32 cents That was supposed to solve all our problems well all you know the teachers all voted for it that they was going to Sol you know solve the school problem next year once it gets all split out it it's a small number I think if any of us comeing come up with a another compelling issue that we just send it to the chair and whereas he's got the list I'll send this yeah I'm going to go over it now before we wrap up it also in the next day or two of if there's really something we think of that's important we could still and then this will all just be facts right I mean you're just yeah I don't want to do opinion in this no opinions yeah I would add several comments93 245 4503 2 4503 and I would compare the entire budget to cups of coffee just to Jack the school did you see that all I can think of was Tom what did the school get coffee specific I thought it was for schools as well I was under the impression the Millionaire's tax was supposed to be 5050 yeah schools and Roads schools and transportation we haven't gotten any it's a great question for tomorrow night who's going to have the answer to it well we're going to have the school Comm school department here we can at least ask have you heard anything right I don't hear call hearing anything from them I don't I only saw the yeah it was in the newspaper they had a list of the towns that were going to receive their F year the um the employee C Administration plan staffing issues but we haven't seen that plan yet so we so we haven't right no but we it is it is going to be a financial impact on the town when do we see it it's a concern Heather have you got any idea when that when personnel's releasing that they sent it didn't they oh they want to present to us next Thursday that's okay next Thursday then two days before they send it last Wednesday to Julie they Ved on last wedn so we're going to do that during the public hearing we're going to learn about it during the public hearing or ahead of the public hearing before we open the hearing has it gone to the board of Selectmen hearings at 7 H hearings at 7 so we have to start at 6:30 H that's yeah that's fair okay see I'm retired so I'm 100% flexible on whatever we need to do all right um after May 4th I'm all bets are off so far we have I think a graph rather than a table it's easy enough I can make you and I could make one we live in pivot charts yeah we could we can have a competition for designs the prettier one we use a logarithmic scale it doesn't look as bad always log log always log log scale it's way to memo is this going to be multicolored one or is it oh my gosh going crazy I I'd like to leave here tonight having a a good idea as to what our meeting schedule is between now and the end month AB that will be coming up okay we're going to settle it I just want to make sure we have at least a Bare Bones list to start working with so table or graph on the overdue per household overdue override per household that spans the range the the other thing if if it could be done on a a spreadsheet format uh is to show X number years out with the 2 and a half% multiplier applied to it that that's the way it was presented a couple times ago or or a lot of years ago because it it it allowed the general citizen to understand that okay your first year uh it's going to affect tax bill here but with no other with no other changes to your valuation and no major change to your to our tax rate oh yeah then this is what this number is going to do each year for the next three years just by being multiplied by two and a half that's a lot of variables to include in a single calculation for Just 2 and a half that's I I feel like that might be misleading to the public that they'll come back and be like no no you said in 20 FY 27 I was only going to have this much of an increase but I think you should state that it is a permanent absolutely right yeah and it'll multiply by two and a half% every year yeah um yeah I I think I realize that we are all over we are very much split with how we feel about the override and I I I don't want to get into anything beyond factual just lay it out and say Here's what the facts are but I also want to try to take out any sort of persuading facts to say this is why it's not going to be good or this is why it's going to be good I I want to just I think I think the table for sure or the graph for sure with I think given things you may want to consider is still factual but if you if if that isn't something that may come up I mean we're going to be we're going to need to vote do you think we're going to be able to vote on support or non-support as a as a board for the Artic for the override article so that it does get printed in time for it to be printed in the warrant so all that's waiting for that at this so the school committee has already voted to support an override right the select board has not voted not entirely committed but sort of committed to putting the article forward putting it on the war yeah and I so I I think at this point it's going forward the only thing we don't have is just the number but the number is going to be coming up probably in the next we'll probably have it tomorrow I would assume because the select board has voted to allocate the arpa funds to reallocate the arpa funds and to allocate allocate additional arpa funds um okay I mean ideally I'd like to have us be able to vote on it ahead of time I think it would be very critical to have us vote ahead of time on our opinion on the two and half over right at least just to have a vote on the number well we're going to have to vote for the warrant yeah we're we're either either here or on May four either support or not support the article MH so that'll happen after the public hearing on the 28th oh we could do it either way we want to we could we could vote on the 28th for it if we have the number or we could kick it and then have a nice debate on Town floor because that is how it works I mean we haven't voted we have to have the debate first right or the discussion first sure okay so so it would go probably go in the warrant as deferred to town meeting if we don't have a definitive number it has to if we choose to do it that way right well if we don't have a number it has to I'm not going to have a take a vote on something we don't have a number for I agree okay and we've we've had that before we've had oh we have it every year yeah yeah so it's not a big deal um all right so Town needs for coming up services buildings just addressing what's coming forward and kind of piggybacking off of that is to prepare the town for upcoming projects and the fact that we currently have no capacity for non-excluded debt um a deeper dive into the budgets for this year and why we've done that uh Capital plan up update with no funds coming from raise razor appropriation uh addressing the Millionaire's tax only hitting so far for chapter 90 for about 250,000 and we can check to see if it hits Chapter 70 at all which I didn't see anything um I don't know if it will come through Chapter 70 I don't I don't know it may have it that may have been where it comes through is it comes through Chapter 70 and it's your multiplier or or whatever it's get gets kind of enveloped into the calculation um and then some type of an update on the sap plan we say anything about the OPA funding that border select I mean it's it's their money to spend entirely I would I would think that would be the the board the select board to do what to to put anything out about arpa funding spec arpa funding specifically arpa spending yeah I wouldn't get into arpa funding do we want to comment on or put in something to kind of start prepping the tax payers for next year in some form or or because I mean now my take from the conversation with the uh superintendent and the U chair of the school committee is that what we've been able to manipulate uh the way we've been able to manipulate funds around is not a long-term fix that's my understanding I think that's all speculation though not for what's been re reallocated the reallocation of the arpa funds is going specifically to Chromebooks it's going to their uh network security upgrades and it's going to um 911 security upgrades as well it's onetime expenses that were in books are recurring Chromebooks will be reoccurring yeah but those were are in their budget currently but I think you're talking in general that more General that yeah you know I I I think honestly we're still not probably not as critically as we were this year but I think we're going to be back in the same boat next year but that's all speculation it's a problem yeah I I I I think time I think rather than cause more issues potentially or or add on to the pile when it's a reality then we start discussing okay I think the only thing you could say from last year to this year what is the report from last year to this year yeah yeah but we are I mean we are getting into to talking about future spending too we've done that in the past though too I mean we've mentioned in the past that the schools has to be careful of our sort drying up and that was in like a year or two ago right that's a fact no I know yeah but it's future looking okay I think the other thing is recommendations to look at um um what what's the word of um you know facilities and grounds and any kind of thank you consolidation of services yeah yeah definitely efficiencies it facilities grow HR HR whatever it is right consolidation or restructure just I wouldn't we encourage the town and the schools to look at these for efficiencies and operations also our grant writer Services we should probably put that in there since we oh yeah recomended we we sponsored that I guess we ought to mention it um do we want to get into Healthcare I don't think so no I I would say not I think that's a conversation to have with or do we want to say it as you know other ways to consider saving funds or to you know explore I mean the only thing you could say is if you know the school budget was driven by yeah the the significant increase had a budget effect um yeah one of these that that's going to be a tricky one too because I'm sure we're all going to have different opinions as to whether or not the where the well if you look at Insurance lines should 24 to 25 budget in the school salary Reserve was number one 318 but that's expected because they're in negotiations this year yeah I'm just going facts the you know the top nine or 10 the top eight which were over $100,000 is transportation salary Transportation equipment's kind of off no insurance collaborative tuitions insurance was four y on that list um yeah five was collaborative tuitions so if you take off salary Reserve which you have to do and transportation which is contractual what was the third one equipment oh the the facility stuff and then Insurance collaborative tuition ility the outside District cost social worker salaries was a huge one 110,000 increase maintenance of buildings 100,000 increase then it starts to get less than yeah so I'm not so sure the Esser positions actually went away as much as the money went away and it was I I'll just describe it as unallocated in different places because the social workers a lot of those were created by the Esser grant money originally no they have it listed out for what positions exactly were removed yeah the budget she showed showed where the cuts were right there was nine I think there's one social worker even in the there was in the but my point is the cuts that are being made were were they actually positions created by Esser funds or did they hang on to and and you know there there was a comment somewhere along the L line that those decisions would have to be made whether it was more important to hold that position in place that was created and funded by Esser and pull a position from somewhere else it's a good question for tomorrow yeah certainly valid question because yes the money got pulled out but yeah they didn't cut there there were some Shi there was some shifting around and and the actual position that was created did did not necessarily get cut well and you've also got to remember that when they are it's a little bit more complicated in and because of their collective bargaining agreements that even if they created the position with an Sesser fund but hired at a mid-level position the person that's getting fired is the low-level position that wasn't in that same position so it's it's convoluted yeah um but I still think it's it's certainly a valid question to ask tomorrow y I won't remember I hope have it written down I won't remember it either it's not my job tell you what I'll put earbuds in and play this well we we'll still be here actually yeah okay any other topics for so far we have a decent list at this point okay I'm I'm good for tonight yeah um I'm happy to skip over all of the old business which is the FY 23 through 20 21 through 23 revenue and expenditure recap and any discussions on any presentations in the past unless anybody really wants to discuss previous presentations okay um I just want to bring up one thing very quickly and and uh my position hasn't changed but I'm uh I'm still kind of concerned about the um food service manager discussion that we had during the U Council on aging's budget process so uh I'm hoping before by the public hearing or during the public hearing we get a clear answer as to what's going to happen with that position because we I think we made individual positions clear but what is the final budget actually we'll see it if we get a final budget presentation as to what happened with that did it did it did it change did it not change did it go to a more hours or or whatever what so I don't think I made a position clear on that I was just pointing out that there's more cost than just increase of 4 hours when you do that right so people got to realize that when they're when they're going from 19 to 23 or 20 to 24 or whatever it is you bump into but if you read in the minutes it I think it might have been me that import asked for them to consider all possible alternative configurations for that change yeah and they did I mean they talked about the fact that this the kitchen is Tiny and trying to put a second person another person in there that's also part-time is not feasible and that bumping her up to closer to 40 hours she's going to be sitting there twiddling her thumbs for 6 hours 8 hours I I I don't accept those I I listen to them and I hear Miss excuses um that's not an that's not an analysis of a of an alternate scenario I think there's also the the downside is that mror is does have an idea as to what the total overhead cost is whereas any of the other positions that we heard which we heard a few this year increasing to full-time positions benefited positions they had no idea what the overhead cost was going to be they just just knew what the hourly rate was going to increase to and so I think that actually runs to M D's I guess transparency of nothing right right and and firm grasp on on the kind of the larger picture but I think it's does her a disservice in this instance because we did come down so hard on it because we had the full number and we said wait you're going to increase this tiny little amount for this large amount well that's not the only the library is doing the same thing and we didn't we didn't do it nearly as badly to mure as we did to to cuz we felt bad cuz we did it to right right so I did bad it's facts I mean I you know the teen center person we said Gee that's I mean we kind of said can you use more hours we kind of talked about that I mean there were a few in there I think ultimately what I found in general was and it is a difficult thing to do is to think about the whole the whole and uh you know if this was your money how would you spend it and if you asked that I don't know would you spend $115 an hour for an extra four and a half hours of work for this thing and the answer would be no you wouldn't do that but she was supporting it and I think that was where you know I went that's that's a problem now is it the end of the world no because it's one position she might not take the health insurance and then it's not an issue but when that person leaves and we rehire it maybe that person will take it and then it's you know so it it's it's it's to me the problem always is is we have to ask our the the uh um Town manager and all the department heads to think about this as if it was their money would you be willing you know if you can say yes I'd be willing to spend my money on this then then that's I don't think we have that I I think the other point that I've been making in private conversations over the past couple of weeks is that in in my careers um a couple of them in plant management positions and and you know in a position to make decisions or at least recommend decisions on reallocating uh a labor force based on the cost is that you need to look at the positions as the positions and what they bring to the table not the person and and I think there's there's quite a bit of the person in this decision and nothing against this person I know she does a wonderful job but as as a manager and a financial advisor or whatever you want to call it um you you have to take the emotion out of it and and see what makes the most sense for the position and the positions supporting that position that's my position coming out of Private Industry I can see that from a from being a fiscally responsible position but at the same time I mean I I tend to trust the department head that the person in charge of it that knows sort of what their department needs that's they're they're in the they're in there every day they know exactly what what's going on we get to talk to them once maybe twice a year and say no no why don't you do this instead I just I think there is still a Humanity that needs to be there that it's not just that that's reducing people down to numbers and I think that that's not what we should be doing yes we should be trying to be responsible with the funds that we're spending and yes we're looking to try and find sorry someone's cominging we have someone coming in the waiting room someone's still awake think you do on a Case by casee basis they're have for tomorrow's meeting I I guess I just I just where we while I I appreciate the committee looking at every single line I I think that there are going to be concessions that that do just sort of need to be well that's just sort of how it's going to be for this one instance and that it's you know we trust this person who's in charge of this department to say this is what my department needs and going beyond that and and yes unfortunately that bumps us into the next category but so be it to me it's it's a it's a the individual case is not the the the know the whole that one person but there were others you know other parts like the Lieutenant who shovels driveways for the elderly fantastic thing he wants to do that but now we're hiring another Lieutenant well G is could we find somebody who is cheaper to shovel driveways than a lieutenant yes is that the right thing to do is that good for morale in the police force I don't know um but you know so there's always those kind of things that you can say yeah I can point to that that's not the best use of our money um but if that's Al if the other benefit is you know the lieutenant mentioned you know I'm checking them out make you know I'm doing more than just I'm policing I'm checking to make sure they're okay then maybe there is value there so you know I I get I get I I guess our job maybe is to focus on the money and you know and if there's really good reasons to to maybe not be the most fiscally responsible and I mean that in the most broadest sense of the word then okay fine I'm I'm I'm not against that either but I think if we bring it up then they could at least react to it and decide what to do I I personally just do have not been given a strong enough um justification for doing that doing it the way they're proposing to do it any discussion on previous all right minutes we have multiple sets in there yeah we have five sets of minutes in there yeah I think so tomorrow um yeah if we don't want to deal with them tonight there as I said earlier uh I just had one question as to whether uh Mr beard M's comments were reflected correctly in there in the wording that's the only question I had yeah five and I think it was something to the effect of the um Debt Service I think it was worded as Debt Service was not included or something to that effect and I I I think that was he was saying that it was included in the number and it needed to be backed out because it wasn't actually part of the operations it was you know as you were talking about earlier or we can just let those ride till tomorrow night or whatever little more clearer headed I mean at this point I'm I'm inclined to let them go for now I know we have five I think we need to approve them tomorrow though cuz we're at the 30-day Mark yep well I can send out a revised agenda for tomorrow and I can put the minutes up front sure that that way we just get them done with get them out of the way you said we have five sets we have five sets in there right now we got a couple more last couple days I read two of them does anybody disagree with that no I would what you just proposed is fine okay all right I'll send out a revised agenda then and just we'll get them done we'll knock them out right then all right committee reports anybody have any my only committee report was the school department the only thing I have is green communities will be meeting Monday the 25th um that does conflict with the caucus so not sure if we're going to tweak time or or what's going to happen there at 7 pm at the library um and we're still discussing and and trying to move forward with the uh sewer commission's uh need to uh upgrade their pumping stations okay ahuh good evening Miss Lockwood Miss Lockwood I'm going to ask we're we're just about to public comment I'm going to ask that you just hold on a few more minutes I know it's incredibly late um sorry about that that's okay any other committee reports all right topics for future meetings we have a list I don't think there's anything else we need to add on for now we good uh upcoming meetings we'll be back here tomorrow for pack other moneyed articles and the public schools in minutes and in minutes Thursday into Friday morning yep uh and then we are scheduled to have our public hearing on the 28th uh let's see now comes the fun part do so the only thing we need to ascertain and that's more for you uh Evan is whether we need to add U presentation of the OM this Budget on the 28th before the public hearing or or if we're putting in an additional meeting date that's I I never actually got clarification from the town manager as to whether or not we can hand in on the fifth instead of the fourth so yeah well in any case we've we've got to plug in some time to get that presentation I think we're handing in on the fifth and it makes it or it doesn't okay so we want to work off of that as our date see how it goes I'm fine with that yeah we do the best we can yeah okay so if that's the case up against the wall here 28th so we have Dave's correct we will not have been presented with a balanced finalized Omnibus budget before public hearing schedule it before that night before the public hearing which is currently scheduled to start at 7:00 on the dot oh that's right when we talked about 6:30 maybe so the only way we could have that done ahead of a public hearing is to start at 6:30 and see if the town manager will do a Omnibus presentation a quick updated one on the 28th on the 28th that way we at least have seen I don't know why we couldn't we don't have to start the public right at seven we do why because that's when that's when it was advertised right so you don't have a we don't have a choice it's either that or we open it and we recess it for a half hour that I mean that that is a well if we start at 6:30 and it we're halfway through it we could then open the public and recess it recess and then go back and continue it and then start at 7:15 or whatever it takes I don't see it's voting on anything until after the fourth too so I don't know if we're going to have any votes in the warrant it's a good point vote on what the Articles yeah there's no numbers they're always done right after the hearing same meeting not if we don't have numbers yeah no numb when are we going to get the numbers we have a week we might be able to vote on some no no Financial the planning board one when is the select Bo I don't remember what they said about they have the second they would be able to vote on by on the 26th and on the second I guess for theirs okay okay [Music] so 3:28 start at 6:30 y we can recess if we need to we can open the public hearing recess it for a little bit to finish that up and then re reconvene the public hearing and get through that okay only a few minutes you can just run late yeah that too then do we want to have a I don't know if I called a special an off cycle meeting on the 1st of April no no you just want to meet on the 4th yep we're not going to have a chance to see anything by then see what to see a a report draft a draft of it we're going to be working off of the first draft at the on the night that we're voting on the first on the draft I think we should PL an agenda in for the first put a generic agenda in for the first and we can cancel it if if we're not going to have a quorum as long as we have a quorum there's no reason in the world why we can't meet on the 1 yeah I suppose all it depends if Tiffany's going to be able to have one for the first I'm sure we can put something together for the first I want to say that's Easter weekend it is oh that's right oh jeez so what's going to be written no offense to getting it into the warrant and how hard it is on getting it into the warrant yeah we've had about 9 4our meetings we still don't even final numbers and we're running through hoops to try to accomplish this yeah you're not wrong but at the same time we are sort of stuck with this needs to get into the warrant this really should be in the warrant it is it is these topics alone even just half of these topics alone deserve to be in the warrant for the public then I think we can deal with it on the fourth I make a motion that we request the chair to schedule a meeting for April 1st I need a second if we're going to vote on it if not I to me I I I don't know I would I would wait to me if if it makes sense to have a meeting on the first I'm all for it but if it doesn't if we're not ready then it doesn't make any sense to to do it um and waste our time and waste the effort we were're already here till 11:30 almost so well we can always cancel a meeting say you don't if you don't post it you can't have it if you post it you can cancel it yeah posted by Thursday and leave it up to the the chair to decide whether or not it's worth doing you can cancel if he wants to I don't have a pro so I'll I'll I'll second it just under that under those things that just for a placeholder and I agree with that interpretation that he just stated the only way that I would entertain even putting a meeting forward would be just to have a single item on this it wouldn't be to vote on articles it wouldn't be to discuss the budget it would be just to review and revise the the report nothing beyond that because yeah and the other the other piece of that is if that's all we're doing we can do that remotely right and I would also have a I would not even book it for this room I would just do a zoom meeting there's no way I'm leaving my house I will be reading the report at the meeting I'll be honest with you CU we're not going to get it until at least the Friday of Easter weekend you don't have you don't have I got to work on Monday you don't want to re read it to the your the table at Easter I agree but at least that gives us a workshop night so we can we have the chance to Workshop it we have the opportunity to to look through it it's not we should make the effort to do it it's something that should be done correctly I completely agree as the same time with with almost having a sort of I guess not hold the meeting uh protest in a sense but that does just doesn't disservice I think to the town okay so there's been a motion there's been a second I guess all in favor of I'll post a meeting for April 1st at 7 p.m. remote with the explicit requirement that it is only to review and revise the article or the um report one agenda item one agenda item and only not even the Pledge of Allegiance just right into it and and you expect we have the draft at least 24 hours before that meeting that's that's questionable hopefully I'll I'll TI tomorrow morning and if we don't we'll we'll cancel it we're not going to have we'll cancel yeah that's okay those in favor I I opposed no oh okay and then we will have another meeting on I will schedule one for the fourth um for that one I will keep it short as well I think it needs to just be for for the report for any warrant articles what's got to be whatever we don't have on the 28th right whatever we don't get done or can't do on the 28th correct to fill in anything that we get for numbers between now and then or between 28th and the 4th but that's pretty much it as well okay and then I say we take a month off um well what tends to happen now between April 2nd and May 4th is that we tend to trickle in actual values and numbers and stuff so we end up having meetings just before town meeting starts was it one year we we met we met we met it we did before town meeting yeah I remember that mean I honestly think they should be continuing to work the budget between the second and the fourth so that at town meeting new numbers can arise and be um more Balan yeah okay um upcoming dates I will change the April 2nd to April 5th and we have town meeting on May 4th and town elections on May 18th what I haven't put in here I should add that is um the 25th it's too late now because it's going to happen before our next meeting uh the 25th at 7 p.m. is the caucus citizens caucus at the high school for any available positions I know there's a number of them coming up yep um and then the only other important date that I keep on forgetting to bring up is the are you smart than a fifth grader invitation again which we've received from the boys and girls club that is happening on April 26th from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. so I'm throwing it out there we're missing two members I don't want to talk about it tonight but let's discuss it they want to know by in the next week or a few weeks um with that is there any public comment from the committee Miss Lockwood public com thank you um earlier it was um I had logged in and um I hadn't put myself in mute so I apologize for my it was truly a n um so you know regarding the part-time going to full-time um positions that we have had in town and uh and I know you know Sue is very clear about what she's doing and her intentions you know I think we need to think when we look at all the positions in town think of more like you know it's not a e one position is really be part of that position that it plays as if it was in a business so for example you know the councel on aging and the Parks and Recreation Department they are there to serve the people uh the assessor's office are there to assess taxes fairly and and you can't put that you know in the private sector we don't we don't put say we you don't put that labor of like like you need to justify your hours you need to make your salary you know for increase your hours you need to justify your salary into Revenue that is a private you know sector type of comment but you don't do that to your marketing uh side of the business or your I I don't know to your you know public relations business side of the business so there is more than what you're doing so I do understand very well the the um you know if you're in private sector these are the questions you'd be asking but actually you know even when you're talking about Banks I mean you know we have TD Garden uh we have lot of like financial institutions that are doing things they're not bringing direct revenue from their activities on that side and that's the public sector of things and and where I'm going to tie this into the into the the town is the following um I'm I am aware of some numbers within different parts of Massachusetts I have I have business that is in last for Wayland whand is number two or number one school in you know in the state the the average single family home pays about $177,000 in taxes in in Wayland so basically there and the average people spend at that point in that town is $23,000 this is data everyone can look it up so basically in that town you are going there and you spending the money that you would spend in a public to send your kid to a school that was that good even if it was public public or private then you have lunenberg where our average spend per pupil is about you know I think it's like over 10,000 less than 11,000 but our average single family home taxes is around six $6,000 so basically we're getting the double the value if you have children in school of you know you sending kids to school and you're paying $6,000 in taxes and you know the town is spending about $111,000 per kid at school so that is a benefit to the town to the business of the town to keep a diverse even if though is our residential we don't have a lot of commercial there is a benefit to the town to keep a lot of you know a diverse demographic in town so when we're talking about the senior center h someone to cook breakfast and lunch to seniors who do not like they're over 50 maybe I don't know of many people in town who are over 50 and have children under 18 but it could be theoretically could be but I don't know that many people so when we think of the senior center who's serving people of 50 and older you know spending that money on on a cook and someone who loves to cook for our seniors and that money is really not that expensive and in the private sector we would not be scrutinizing this so you know I'm in the private sector I scrutinize things at that level but I scrutinize things at that level in a holistic way of like what are you delivering what are the benefits so please stop stop going like you know our senior center they are a jewel and I am the parks commissioner and I only hope that one day the you know we have we have good we we have a good purpose we have good people in it but we are not at the level of service that the senior center is offering to our residents right now like I really feel like we are failing to offer good service to people between the age of like 3 to 55 and uh we can not scrutinized at the same level because these are the people that are keeping that balance we are we don't have a strong F commercial base and the the the diversity that we have is within the our demographics and scr niiz in the cook at the S Center is not the way to go so thank you aan for allowing me to speak good night thank you Miss Lockwood there any other public comment from the public hearing done motion to a I was going to beat you to it second is there any discussion on this all in favor hi 1130 even and at no not 11:30 we're at 11 oh it is 11:30 11:30 we are adjourned thank you everyone we'll see you in 12 [Laughter] hours