we're live all right good evening it is 7:01 pm on Thursday uh April 4th I hope everyone is recovered from the snow got a little more than we were expecting but it wasn't too bad I am calling the remote finance committee meeting to order this is 100% remote this evening as town offices are closed uh in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast over the lunenberg public access Channel and on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page and will be uploaded to the lunenberg access YouTube channel after the meeting the following information is provided for members of the public that would like to participate in the meeting to participate uh from the computer please use the link attached to the agenda which can be found on the town website from a telephone dial the toll-free number 888 475 4499 and enter webinar ID 832 417 59373 the agenda list all topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may be also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law I'm going to skip over the Pledge of Allegiance since we don't have a flag available to us least it everywhere um are there any announcements from the committee this evening Miss tarz not an announcement I'm just I wonder can you hear me we can hear you yes okay they add technical difficulties thank you not a problem the only announcement that I have this evening is just that our seventh member uh Jee Russell is going to be away for tonight and for next Thursday as well he was pulled out of town at the last minute and um it's going to be tied up taking care of some personal business and personal matters um so it would just be the six of us and um as a result of that miss tarez is also not feeling well so thank you Miss tarz for jumping on at least for a little bit so um unless there's any large um argument against it I'm going to switch the order of meeting around and bring the budget discussion and the votes on recommendations forward and we'll get to the new business after that just in case Miss tarz needs to sign off early I'd rather have as many people's votes as possible for the recommendations um with that is there any public comment from the committee this evening see none is there any public comment from the public uh yes the phone number 978 80011 28 go ahead and unmute I believe you have to push star n hello hi there we hello okay this is Rond delissio 181 Reservoir Road I just had a public comment throughout the town we pay user fees for several things some examples include water sewer trash pickup and in the not too distant future we will be charged a storm water fee even some of the town's smaller entities have recognized the need to increase user fees such as the Parks Commission which recently voted a modest increase for town beach users last week the finance committee presented a bar graph which showed the school transportation costs represent one of the largest areas of increase faced by the district my question is how does the school district justify its change in policy which expanded the number of students who are eligible for busing without charging a penny and user fees why were bus fees which were charged when my daughter was a student completely eliminated wouldn't reinstating fees have been a reasonable way for the district to raise funds within its own budget I find the district's failure to even consider this option and instead seek to raid funds on the Town side of the budget to be toned deaf and offensive why is the district expecting all of the taxpayers to fully fund the expansion of its user base this is just one example of the district expanding Services Beyond mandates in expecting taxpayers not to notice and basically just shut up and Fork over more money it would take me longer than my three to provide additional examples I agree with the chair of the select board I do not support the status quo within the school district and I do not support the override thank you thank you Mr Barz hi Rhonda and everyone else I don't have the answer to this but I I wanted to ask a question have you asked the school committee that question because I don't even I actually I actually public commented when they were in the process of changing the policy and and it was my strong recommendation to charge user fees which they the reason they gave was that the fees would not um do enough to offset the cost of the transportation but my argument is it would offset the cost of something else so there you go thanks I I did not know that so that kind of helps me understand what their rebuttal was to that question but I unfortunately I do not personally have any answers but I would also like to understand a little bit more and have your question answered as well so I can certainly reach out and ask for a little bit more information on other that have such cost structures but it is something that I am personally very very unfamiliar with but thank you thanks Mr Bowen if you're speaking Mr B we can't hear you you may still be you're still muted I was muted thank you very much here we go um yes so Evan thank you very much for having me I um I basic I have a son who attends lunenberg high school so I have a little bit of a say with regard to I guess you know uh the status quo as raised by Mr Jeff I am also a union supporter and I support a teachers union I don't have any problem with that what I do not support is an un uh is a budget that has no line items on it that you can remove from a school budget meaning that teaching this or providing this or taking this out or inclusive of uh like uh uh uh anything with like with regard to like Dei or with regard to specifics where parents are being told that well we don't have to tell you because DVC policy says that we don't have to tell you about these things and as far as I'm concerned that because they're not line item okay parents don't have a say but if they want to take money from the entire taxpayer base for everything then the whole taxpayer base has everything to say about what goes on with inside the operational function of the school and I think that that's being ignored that you want to take money from everybody who doesn't utilize it and the last caller basically called mention to that about you know about user uh uh fees and stuff like that which I don't think that is a feasible option to work to be honest with you okay however I think that if we have funded schools then every taxpayer in this town should determine what the school is allowed to teach who to teach and how to teach and right now with the school committee being separate from the town budget being its own independent entity is a serious problem I'll bet if that was included as an entire organization in its structure which under our Charter being home rule we could do that we don't have to follow the standard process of the state there would be some serious reeling in of some financials and I just wanted to mention that that I think that you know it should be considered that you know everybody's talking about consolidation why don't we just consolidate the school committee into the entire Town's budget and not keep it as a separate entity but keep it under the guidance and supervision of the select board thank you thank you are there any other public comments from the public this evening all right seeing none let's move on to town manager report is there a town manager report this St think from you I do not have a town manager report tonight okay excellent and I thought I saw e yes is there a finance director report this evening um I do not have a report tonight um but I am working on the uh Q2 reporting so you should have that either next week or the week after a couple system issues with VI this but I'm hoping to get that to you ASAP thank you very much look forward to seeing that all right so uh again I'm going to adjust the schedule um just slightly so that we can get through as many of the warrant recommendation votes as possible with six members since we can't do it with seven members um I I before we dig into it though I do want to kind of gauge the the committee's opinion on if Miss tarz is not feeling well enough and ends up dropping off um that's two members we'd be down for our vote so personally I would prefer to stop taking votes at that point because I think that's it's a decent chunk of our our committee um and at that point I would sort of prefer to kick everything to the next meeting or potentially you know as far down as we need to go so we get to at least a a larger majority any other thoughts on that one no I agree with that Evan I I do have a question though um are we discussing the um the report we are yes we are so we have Tiffany and I were working or mrarz and I were working at about 2 o'clock this this afternoon workshopping and putting this putting a a small amount together we've man I I dropped it into the um to the FY 25 budget root folder the first draft of it it we've only made it through about half of the of the 10 bullet points that we've raised um when we were uh outlining and brainstorming before um but I would at least like to somewhat Workshop what we have currently and at least make sure that the language does appear to be nonspecific or at least I guess highly specific non- opinionated just factual okay so what then is our expected suspense data is it next week to vote on it I think we would have to I mean I I think you raised this before Mr Mard um just the the difficult of getting a a realistic top down view report put together when we were just presented with the school department budget not to their not to not necessarily to their fault or anything but we've only just been receiving over half of our budgets uh report as of a week ago two weeks ago to pull together a full report and and an idea as to what our budget looks like and what the the town's finances look like for the year is is a Monumental path within such a small amount of time okay so I agree I'm I'm content at least voting on it next week and workshopping it you know to to an effect tonight and then we have to have it as a print out then we have it as a print out or'll still end up in the um overall Town report uh later on is the yes um so my concern with that is tomorrow was the extended deadline beyond the original deadline where um that um is well beyond the date that I would have to get it to the printer to keep that schedule I understand it's it it was made more difficult with Easter thrown in there as a week over the weekend um and just it's been a very busy budget season and I want to make sure that what we put forward as a committee is accurate and as concise as it needs to be so we may be in the it looks like we'll probably be in the position of having a secondary paper that's on the desk when when voters walk in but there will be at least a report that gets put into the overall Town report that gets that gets printed okay I just wanted to you know make sure everyone knew that before that gets sent off and there were no surprises rather General law does state that it has to be placed in certain locations seven days before meeting too so we got to follow that yeah that's the posting of the warrant which is done I think it's actually the T the report as well I'll look for that reference yeah it's it's the actual warrant finance committee report also Dave can you get a little closer to your microphone I I believe there was some separate verbiage relative directly to the finance committee report we'll let Chris look it up I I honestly feel that we should get going on votes on the Articles I'm more concerned about our positions on the Articles being in the warrant that I am our letter agreed Dave I can barely hear you he was saying that he would rather get moving on the uh recommendations for the warrant and he thinks that those are more important to be in the warrant itself rather than our letter specifically and and I guess we we could have somebody ask Town Council if if it needs to be reported if it does that's great we have plenty of time it was it 10 days or so before the meeting so you know we have to get it to where it needs to be doesn't then it just it's handed out at the town meeting and we can put it on the on the website on the town website and all that exactly okay y Mr chair can you hear me better now a little bit yeah yeah okay I'll turn this up a little bit more I didn't realize my settings were turned down there we go now we can hear you okay thank you all right so without further Ado I am going to pull up the most recent form of a warrant which the town manager sent off loaded up this afternoon okay article one remains um unchanged that is to vote to see if the uh town will vote to hear or accept regular written reports of the Town Offices we voted no Direct Financial impact I don't think there's any reason to revisit that one number two uh authorizing revolving funds for various departments boards committees agencies uh to be extended in accordance with chapter 138 of the town's General bylaws we recommended approval for that one that was pretty standard it is now known as article three is the departmental revolving funds for the local Wetlands protection Fe fees bylaw or bylaw fees we recommended approval for that one as well I don't think there's a reason to revisit that one if if anyone does have a reason to stop just yell out stop and I'll I'll immediately stop and we'll get back to it so just I have a question is throughout this we had a through z are they now just one through 26 or uh I think it's one through 25 now because the selectboard pulled one on Tuesday I believe it may be one it may be one 226 I don't know but yeah they to my understanding they are still one for one a is number one B is number two I was just looking through my notes thanks MH article four to see if was ped sorry Evan one was pulled from the warrant on Tuesday okay okay uh to article four to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate or transfer from available funds a sum of money for payment of Prior year expenses or take any other action relative there too we deferred on that one select for deferred as well do we have any know expenses from yet there is no um at none at this time okay so I don't think there's any reason for us to revisit that I think we would still defer that to town meeting floor at this point it'll be a very small amount of money if anything okay Article 5 five the town will vote to transfer from available funds off of money necessary and to amend the amount voted for the FY 24 budget under article 7 of the May 6 2023 annual town meeting and article one November 14th 2023 special town meeting or take any other action relative there to do we have any numbers for Article Five we do not we're we'll be working on this um next week really waiting for that snow and ice number is the the big number that we need okay we're going to remain deferred on that one okay article six to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate borrowed transfer from available funds a sum of money for the fy2 capital plan as appearing in the capital planning report committee we recommended approval 6 to1 again I don't see any reason to revisit um the capital uh article we would lose one of our votes anyways but if someone does want to revote I'm open to at least discussing it great article seven the the Omnibus budget uh we voted to recommend approval 5:1 to one on this one uh [Music] um this point again I don't see a specific reason to recount or revote anyone has any anything specific they want to do with this one we can talk about otherwise we move on to the override okay the override article8 okay to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate $948,000 36 to supplement the lunenberg public schools budget for fiscal year 2025 contingent upon the passage of a prop two and a half ballot question or take any other action relative there to defer this one I would very much like to get a vote on this one this week now that we have a little more information from the school department yeah I'm ready to vote I'll recommend we approve it is Tom second all right we have a vote to recommend approval and a sec or a a motion to and a second to recommend approval um before we get into so I have a two- slide presentation that tries to get into a little bit more of the double dipping conversation we had last last week before I showed that though is there any other conversation that anyone wants to have regarding this article I would recommend we see what you say okay so oh more grass yay no no more graphs no spreadsheets I went with bubbles just happy little bubbles nothing okay change of pace I love it exactly maybe we can walk through it with this one so our starting point this year was to take the final budget uh the final number from last year FY 24's budget for the school department of 23 m473 214 that is the base budget for FY 25 to that number the town manager recommended a 2.94% increase for 673 , 394 that gets us to what was originally and Still Remains to be called the town manager preliminary budget number that's what everything started on back in February of 23, 57452 after that we have a whole bunch of Gap filling going on a lot of negotiating between the town manager the select board and the school department and school committee to try and fill a gap that was identified um and this was the process for that one so we started off let me go to my laser pointer we started off with the town manager's preliminary budget of 23, 57452 there were portions of the school department budget that came out of that line out of th that budget and there were portions that were added back in as more specific numbers were kind of drilled down by the school department however over the process the fy2 24 certified new growth of $236,200 the payment management plan $50,000 that was originally going to be earmarked for the payment management plan was pushed over to the school department as well to give a gap funded what was now been called the needs based budget um of 23, 91,9 that number that since the final number here the town manager recommended budget number is what appears in the Omnibus budget that's what the town will be voting on and that's where we stand today however as we all know I'm sure by now that cuts that still cuts 20.4 fpes um I'm realizing now that my animations are wrong the one up here we'll come to find out uh it'll pop up at the end I think I think I added it on at the very end I think I cut still I believe it's 29 but we'll see in actually right here we don't have to um separate from this budget is the override so regard so this is going to be included in article 7 and in article 8 directly after that is the override warrant article what that article strives to do is take the town manager's recommended budget of $23 milon 91 and 991,00 98 asks the town to add on another $948,000 44 it was at what is now has been deemed the level service minus Esther budget oh and there's my number the original 2.94% increase was was a cut of 37.1 full-time employee position at at the school department so as it stands if the override passes and those funds go to the school there's still a cut of 9.4 fdes however since that money was given to the school department those cuts were planned for way back starting in fy22 but primarily in FY 23 so these numbers were known ahead of time it's the rest of the numbers that weren't necessarily known so to get into the a little bit more more of the weeds in terms of the double dipping so if we start with what's putting been put forward in the Omnibus budget the needs B the Omnibus quote unquote needs based budget from the schools during the process of coming up with these numbers and the final to manager recommended budget in addition to these additions there were some removals from some of the school department lines specifically since this has started we've had the removal from the preliminary budget of 82,9 from the network security upgrade we've had the removal of 911 compliance phones for $ 63,65 and the removal of a reoccurring portion of the Chromebook purchases for $75,900 this totals up to the arpa funding $221,600 offered by this by the select board to cover some of the additional costs now what happened to get us down to this number is that these three categories had to come off of the school's budget they were on there in the preliminary budget they existed already they were cut from the budget to make space for additional for additional shifting of funds to get down to the needs-based budget however that means that we are cutting them from FY 26 budget immediately because the arpa funds are a one-time chunk of money and this is going to cut from the U the maintenance of the building which is the uh network security upgrade and the 911 compliant phones so you're going to drop off about aund and quick math 50,000 roughly there um and 75,000 about half of the Chromebook purchases so they're already negative for next year so the FY 26 base will start $221,600 underfunded from the needs-based budget so it will take the needs-based budget and chop it quarter of a million dollars from the start so that is going to set them up for already a difficult position to fill for next year if the override does pass what's included in there is $221,600 to supplant these three costs that have been cut and as of last night the school department voted or the school committee voted to re if the override passes if the ballot passes they will return the arpa fund to the select board so that there will not be the a double dip of funds while it does appear to be a double dip on paper it is a way to sort of ensure that they are need service is level for fy2 and start at FY 26 without being in the hole so yes Mr gr go ahead and one question because I I don't understand the for next year if their budget is $10 is what does that have to do with the budget for the prior year the two and a half percent is for Revenue not for expenses uh is it that they is that the school committee would feel like uh oh because we're because uh our budget was so much less was less last year we're getting a bigger increase and that wouldn't look good or is it some kind of a requirement that every Department gets the same percentage increase or the town manager says two and a half percent for every Department I'm not sure why you know we next year we go yeah yeah they got the 221,000 last year and onetime fee so we we know they got to put more in the budget next year I I just don't yeah I'm just not sure why that's important to my understand uh why we're doing the the two and a half percent increase on a year-to-year basis you mean for them well yeah for the expenses because it's really not I mean it's not really at least as sorry as I know not a requir that every Department get the same percentage increase and every department and that you know it just it's you know because it doesn't so I didn't understand the the the quote Whole will be in next year is based on somehow next year's budget is based on this year's budget it doesn't have only in the sense that those lines have already been cut from what they were requested to be earlier in the process the school department was originally expecting to cover the network security opgrade and the 911 compliance for phones from their maintenance of building lines in their budget already when the arpa Mundy was made available to them that money was taken and moved over to other very vital needs areas to cover that in the time being but that doesn't take away the need for maintenance of buildings in FY 26 so that is why the hole will be there because they they cut it from the B from the budget because it's being filled with arpa funding this year but next year it arpa funding won't be there so they will have a whole a missing amount of 226 $21,000 I I just don't I mean it why is there a whole I mean I understand what you just said I understand that next year they'll still have those expenses and because the line item wasn't there it's going to be hey it's a big like next year it'll it'll say oh there's a uh 200% increase in Chromebook purchases and some of them will say hey why is that so much well because we used arper money for 75,000 okay that's fine put it in the budget that's fine I I I uh and uh so I don't um I I I I understand what they're doing here I I just you know it just doesn't make sense to me why it's necessary but doing it is fine I agree with I agree with you Tom I think it's a story that's not really worth telling and I also say that two-thirds of these are capital items they're not even something that should be in the operating budget Chromebooks should because they're annual purchases they they recur every year but network security items and 911 compliant phones are over $20,000 they're onetime charges and we have similar ones runs um on the capital plan so it it's kind of a narrative that I would not focus on because I think it's it's just confusing to an art to what could be a pretty simple story right the the reason I'm focusing on it is just because on the surface it does appear that they would be double dipping because if the arpa funds are awarded and the override passes they would be double funding these l in fy2 that's the only I think you could say it differently though that the request for which I think is coming up the the nine whatever the number is 100,000 um we would be returning the arpa funding so that you know that that is in it goes back into the into the budget correct that wasn't decided until that was decided last night and I had made this presentation a couple days before that okay yeah I just I think we shouldn't be focusing on FY 26 because to me it's just it's kind of like gaming towards next year in my opinion it's just like you know I should assume that there's no less than two and a half percent so therefore if I paded a little bit this year but but it's kind of like a I don't know it's a false argument in my opinion I understand I totally understand it I didn't a couple weeks ago it was explained at that meeting no I I the I just wanted to add on to everything that's been said um having been involved in all the discussions with the school superintendent and the school committee chair um and then the select board chair um when I first met with the school superintendent and the school committee chair we were looking at options and at my suggestion because the network security upgrade was a capital item to pull that out as an independent article and since then that has been removed because the board select board committed those funds from arpa for that cost but like Mr manard said the network security upgrade and the 911 compliant phone systems were considered for arpa because they are non-recurring cost Capital type item comes um but at a gr Chromebooks are the recurring cost thank you Mr chair to the town manager is that okay under the arer rules to uh purchase a recurring item yes okay that's all all I needed was yes or no thank you so if we want to ignore the middle portion if that is fully understood at this point the last little part here is that um what the this is how we get to the full um level service minus Esser budget at this point is to take the preliminary budget add the what I'm calling the Gap funding which is that red box in there which the arpa fun or excuse me the um preliminary the previous funding with the new growth the local receipts and the payment management add in the 145,000 for new utilities add in the 7576 P for these Chromebooks and you end up at the actual needs-based budget the true needs-based budget um someone in um the actual needs-based budget has presented by the school department at 24,1 23,5 198 and there were some concerns at the select board meeting I know about will this will they be back next year asking for more money or is this even going to be enough um I can say at this point that what this does is it preserves the services that are currently in place at the school it preserves the programs that are currently in place at the schools it preserves the custodial and Par professional needs at the schools the maintenance is the tricky one because there's a lot that's going to be coming up and I think that's going to be more on the on the um Capital side once Mr heee has a better chance to see how bad the buildings need to be repaired or updated and whatnot um I agree these are some of the two two-thirds of these are capital projects but the 911 compliant phones I think is a more important one to get out there immediately where we have cap some capital projects have been sitting for years and years they just haven't made it through yet um I don't know if the network security upgrade is a necessary one for an immediate upgrade I just I I feel that in this instance that given that the schools are willing to give the arpa funding back that I think this is how we set them up for progressing in the future and not being able to start off the years behind the AOL so that's all I have there's any conversation or question please EV can you go back to the first part of the the first chart right because I I think everything here was good it EXP explains it very well um pretty simple just at the starting point 23,400 th000 plus 600,000 does not see yeah I thought I caught that as well it's clearly it's not so I pulled that from one of the many budgets that have been floating around I should have checked it that's my apologies I did do a 2.94% increase on that one okay the increase is correct the final is correct I think the starting is incorrect Yeah well yeah basic math would that okay I think again just my only comment was just fix that because otherwise I think that this does go through the the history very well it's a good jart yeah it should be 24 m267 613 okay for fy2 24 budget I'll double check it I'll go back um I know the town manager actually has this in her presentation as well for ex L what that number is I'll update that actually while we're discussing once I once I pull these slides down you don't put Engineers on spcom oh trust if you really want to get into it the um no I don't okay because there's another one too but it's much more minor any other at least discussion on this and then we can move to just general discussion on the override as needed right caring this one go back to okay um so with that we have had a motion made and seconded is there any further discussion on the override as it's been presented at this point any other questions any other everyone finally talked out of this I I'll make a comment just my opinion on it I um I guess I I would say that from the fincom perspective I think at a minimum we should be seeking to have level service across town um and I think across the board with this override it kind of gets you to level service and and maybe a little bit less than level service on a couple of the Departments so it's still not perfect I've heard the arguments about well well is it enough for for next year I mean we'll have to deal with that next year right and we'll have to deal with exempt borrowing at some point as well as if we want to continue to move towards um our building projects but I think that's a next year question and I think we need to I don't think we're going to get any enough of the efficiencies across town even with a task force and working everything to to get to the 948 136 so from a purely Financial standpoint in from the perspective of maintaining level Services which I think we should do I think the right thing is to recommend approval on this and and that's that's where I stand on it and I do understand the implications of all that and I think at one point in my life I would said I would never uh recommend a prop two and a half override but um I think in this case I I would recommend it I'd have to agree I think as as a finance committee We should strive to have level Services across toown Department that's that's that's basic function of government in my opinion and and delivery of service to our constituent Mr VZ I I agree with what's being said I also think that it's important that we continue to ask questions about the line items and the decisions to put those numbers on those line items and how it affects the operations of the school and the teacher and the children and the buildings so I I think given at the given the time of year we're at right now and you know this is the 11th Hour this is not the right time to dig in anymore but I think it's important to continue to dig in in the near future and start asking those questions before the next budget season thank you any other discussion all right so this will be and all will be a roll call vote uh Miss sarz yes Mr Simeone no Mr paos no Mr Gray you're muted Mr Gray yes Mr Bernard I and an I from myself the finance committee recommend approval uh one two three four five to two four to two four to two thank you don't ask us yeah exactly it's just simple mathing and having listen it's been a day you want to list one is absent on the yep that's exactly what I'm running down okay thank you yeah I felt terrible I was I was texting the town manager asking is there any way we can get Miss Russell's vote in here is it is there any legal way to get it in there is not but we'll make two okay so moving on to article nine all right article nine is the uh changes to the salary Administration plan we found no direct Financial impacts of that one oh no I'm sorry wrong one keep going okay say is there really a reason to do this one no no reason to start that one so number 10 article 10 is the um updating the schedule for the uh salary Administration plan to change the sums uh the increases to see quickly to remove a the first grade I believe and or first two grades and add too great at the end I believe and an adjustment to the lines to bring our minimum up to just over um minimum wage in the state recommended approval on that one any reason to reconsider no great 10 the last sap one this is the thck leave um for the for becoming app parent um I haven't read this one to see if it's changed but the added-on portion is if an employee becomes a parent with or without giving birth example because the employee spouse gives birth to a baby or the employee adopted house employees May access up to eight weeks or 40 days of sick leave all other available ACR time such as vacation and personal time must be exhausted first however employees are able to retain up to one week of vacation or personal time for use during the fiscal year I believe that last line and please correct me if I'm wrong Mr mu um as Mr Jeff was saying was because it's all dumped at once just at the start of the fiscal year in July 1st so there's a there's a little bit of a discrepancy if you go on leave in June um how would that affect you and this way they would at least still have a week available to them they wouldn't just lose everything right away this is my basic basic understanding of this um originally we had voted that there was no direct Financial impact Mr Alonzo I believe mentioned that should we have someone on leave and we have to hire a temp we'd have to pay that temp and that would cause a direct Financial impact so before we move on um I just want to put that out there and see if anybody would like to reconsider or have a discussion on reconsidering this one yeah this was the one I wanted to make a comment on and and you prefaced it perfectly I was at the select board meeting also um I think the point brought up by Mr Alonzo is is somewhat valid um but number one unless we have somebody out for an extended period of time and maybe eight weeks is an extended period of time but for the most part we don't hire replacement for anybody in this town when they're out unless it's a long-term medical especially workman comp um yes there may be some extra hours by other members of what whatever Department that person happens to be from um department heads uh in common practice when they take time for this purpose or or whatever the purpose may be uh they're still in contact with either the town manager or their immediate department heads under them um so any impact at all with this I find is would be minuscule um but it's up to the the board if you want to vote a different way uh it I guess that's my comments in general and I also made the comment that this is still an archaic process uh the way we handle sick leave and vacation time and any other time off available for employees um is our caic compared to the rest of the world um and I think this really needs to be addressed and the concern brought up that oh well we give our U non-collective bargaining employees uh anything better than this and the union is going to say that's not fair well it is what it is at this point and over time it'll have to find a middle ground those are my comments yeah and just to um p on a little bit maybe to that I mean this is actually just saying what is allowed for sick leave so someone could have any kind of illness that could take them out for 40 days and the same things might may or may not need to occur so again I I it's a I still think it's no direct Financial impact yeah that could be some indirect impacts or something but um well that's the question I have is is with Mr Alonzo said the other night so there's a there's a possible minor Financial impact on Town possible so is that enough for us to change I I don't know what the what uh the no finan is that like what does no Financial impact mean what's the definition does that mean that there can't be ever any because if that's the case then this probably we should vote on it I think it's us to interpret should vote on it because I do think there the indirect Financial impact of this is you have to hire a temp you know and I am very much in favor of this and I think this is you know I think that this should have already been a thing actually you know before today um but I do see Mr Alonzo's point about you know it does have it could have Financial impact so I do think we should vote on it because in the event you know whatever department is short staffed and they did need to hire a temp like it would know you're you're paying for two things having said that again I'm all in favor of this and I think this is completely necessary okay so I offer an option no substantial Financial impact or we approve it I would go for approval approval as well I agree I'll make the motion we approve uh I'll make the motion we approve that out whatever was it 11 yeah resend it in the same um resend the original vote in the same uh motion I think it would be cleaner and and to resend our vote from last week and and with new information and make a recommendation we approve article 11 second hi oh hang on Mr Simone you were you saying something yeah why I don't understand why someone should have to use their vacation a personal time for a sick time someone's a long-term employee with 1,200 hours they should be able to use their sick time first for vacation a personal time it's not the way it's written in our our uh employee handbook there are s there are other serious problems in there this just fixes tries to fix one of them yeah there a lot I don't like about this at all if I'm not mistaken and this is trying to think of what's H or remember what happens on the municipal side rather than the in the the the private sector um they are not required the town is not required to to cut a check for vacation and personal time if an employee leaves but they are required to cut a check for sick time is that correct Mr I don't think so or is it the other way around vacation get okay so that would be the reason why in my opinion that they would have to use their vacation and personal time because that is money that the town would have to cut a check for if after they sick leave they decide to leave so then they get they get to work through the sick time they sick leave um there are go ahead there are also employees that are um due to do sickly buyo due to how long they've been a town employee and when that changed so that's within the sap as well okay when did it change I'm not sure when it changed it was prior to when I came yeah wonder how many long-term employees we have that that would be affected by that do do we work the same way Mr mu regarding FMLA and that this we this I know this the we are required to cover or in the private sector again we're required to cover 80% and then the remaining 20% is required by the employee does that fit here as well no separately there's a FMLA policy and for those that qualify for FMLA they would use personal vacation and Si time before becomes unpaid leave okay is that an 8020 the situation may not overlap like so that in number four it may not mean that they're on FMLA if it doesn't qualify for [Music] FMLA okay got it that sounds like a folks that's it's at my house my sister and her husband and a friend are here from Maine because they lost electricity so they're cooking go ahead Jay isn't there other I don't know if it's federal or state I know the town I work for there's FMLA the is this um small Necessities Leave Act is the parental Leave Act act and they they're all referred to um and then there's um you know sickly policy you like the law of this is already covered by with the state or federal law I I'm not sure about any of that I just know that we have a warrant here and the question is we have three choices no direct Financial impact approve or deny we can't modify it so we have to I guess we ask ourselves is this better than what was there before then or not uh if we don't and if we think uh it's not then you know whatever but to me we can't I mean we can ask all these questions but I don't know if it's gonna at this meeting and we're we're trying to get through this it's going to help us get to the you know it's going to help us at all today I mean I I think would you asked us some good questions but I uh I don't know if anybody here are qualified to answer that I do have one question why did select board recommend deferral is there a change coming they were asking for the actual impact if it could be calculated okay all right no I don't think that was entirely it and maybe um Miss mki and Mr Franco are on tonight so um but I had more to do with questions about the language that impact because the impact would be almost impossible to quantify okay so looking at this as it's written as it's presented we have a did we have a second on this one I know Mr okay so we have had a motion to resend the no direct Financial impact and recommend approval given that as it's written I think we need to vote on that one I agree there's lots of work that needs to be done on this but I'd like to at least take the vote on this one and just say yes or no does the finance committee find or recommend this at least for what it's supposed to say is there any other discussion on it as it's written my only question is can this be changed dramatically or substantially to a point where it may change our minds between now and town meeting we could change our recommendation yep it may it won't be in the warrant but necessarily but it will we will be able to report that at town meeting if there's a change vote and I can't see how it would change in a financial way specifically yeah see them clearing up the language a little bit and trying to make it a little less confusing or a little more specific or put dates or whatnot but none of that should affect the actual bottom line potential value I'm good with that answer okay all right roll call vote then Mr pathio hi Mr Simone I'm going to abstain m tarez i yes Mr gray hi Mr Menard hi and an I from myself the finance committee recommends approval of article 11 uh four to zero to one one exension and five to zero five my God don't think he has anything to do you've had a this your appeal to give the schools money that like important you know that I work in I like I do math on a daily basis that's my job five to zero to one with one absence my generation's answer to that would be you must have done the new math no I didn't I'm struggling to help my kids ma uh to go back Mr Menard I've fixed the slides so it is now fy2 24 budget is 22 m878 443 and is now a 2.94% increase to get to 23574 522 okay article 12 uh to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate or transfer from available funds the sum of money into the stabilization fund we recommended approval so any reason to change that 13 see if the town vote to raise an appropriate or transfer from available funds a sum of money to the special purpose stabilization fund or take any other active relative there too we recommend it approval again don't see any reason to change that article 14 again we recommended approval for article 14 the OPB trust fund I don't see any reason to change that one as well Article 15 was to was the sewer Enterprise fund for I believe it's uh 1,712 certainly uh article 16 formerly letter P see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate or transfer from available funds a sum of money to operate the Ste Enterprise nope just kidding article article 16 uh capital reserve sewer capital reserve stabilization fund transfer of $35,000 we voted to recommend approval again you need to address that one article 17 formally article Q see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate or transfer available funds a sum of money which is $500,000 to operate the solid waste disposal program fund for fy2 we voted to recommend approval on that one article 18 formly letter R to see if the town will vote to raise an appropriate or transfer from available funds a sum of money to operate the water Enterprise fund that sum is $45,000 again we voted to recommend approval Article 19 formally letter s the the town will vote to raise an appropriate or transfer from available funds a sum of money totaling $180,800 3 to fund the fy2 public education educational government access Enterprise operating a capital budget take another action there too we voted seven to nothing to recommend approval for that one article 20 or letter T to see if the town will vote to appropriate the sum of $10,000 from the sale of cemetery lot um we voted to recommend approval again I don't see any reason to do anything with that so that brings us to article 21 and 22 we voted to Def or letter U and letter v um do you know which letter was taken out M mu U was removed U was removed okay so there is no longer a u so we deferred on V which is now letter number 21 okay so this is the board of assessors dropping um see see if the town will vote to amend the vote of article 3 fre on the May 6 20 2006 annual town meeting to decrease the age of the exemption as Allowed by Mass General Law chapter 59 section 541c from 70 to 65 to amend the reimbursement amount up to 100% of the exemption and further to adjust the income and asset limits according to the statute or take any other action relative there to so they've combined what was presented I think is option three where they would decrease the age and increase the amount into a single AR so this I believe will have a a financial impact I'll make a motion that we resend our deferred recommendation and recommend approval of article 21 second second for discussion just brief discussion oh of course we'll discuss okay motion has been made and seconded to resend our deferral and to recommend approval is there any discussion on article 21 yeah uh uh ask the town manager to correct me if I get any any of this wrong but I think when when this proposal was F first brought forward to the board of selectman by the assessors uh the age change uh was in my eyes a minuscule amount of about approximately $2,500 uh that can be easily covered in the overway balance that we are carrying and I believe the uh change in the income um asset limits so on and so forth can also be covered by that and um because of the criteria or the requirements to um be able to take advantage of these credits uh there it is you can almost count the people on three hands who are eligible for these discounts that is [Music] correct okay is this on property tax this would be covered through the overlay Reserve don't but it's a discount offs off what off their real estate tax is there any additional discussion regarding article 21 all all right we are roll call vote to recommend approval of article 21 Mr Paso hi Mr Simone hi Mr VZ hi Mr Gray hi Mr Menard hi and an i for myself we are unanimous six to zero I got that one with one absence okay article what would be article 22 23 24 and 25 we all we did as a group with no direct Financial impact so I will just briefly unless anyone really wants to go back through them again um article 22 is a something we should have done and have to do every year I believe now article 26 is just the historical commission um article 27 and art yeah or article 26 article 24 excuse me article 23 is the historical commission article 24 is the batteries and article 25 is the waste water reservation District I believe um anybody want to revisit any of those NOP excellent no no okay so the only ones that were currently deferred on are articles four and five at this point and with any luck uh four is going to be a pretty small amount of money and five um we're waiting primarily for the snow and ice removal numbers to come in so nothing substantial to the budget itself all right um Miss lemu do you need us to submit to you exactly what the votes were would that be helpful I took them down as you were voting okay good I just in case okay that moves us on to the next portion of the agenda which is the we've done that one um we've had the override discussion at this point um why don't we mrar is still here let's just dump in or jump into the warrant workshopping warrant report workshopping really quickly Mr chair could I ask one more financial question while the town manager is still with us sure uh I think I asked this question the other day but I'm just wondering if the numbers changed uh there is a uh number of dollars in free cash that is floating unappropriated uh with this Balan budget could she uh repeat that number hold on one second thank you that is 26,8 2864 okay thank you very much I just want that for future thank you welcome okay so get this larger okay so this is very unedited I didn't even have a chance Mr barish to go back through and look at it anymore than from what we had written so there's going to be plenty that needs to change with this one um but I wanted to make sure that we did hit all of the topics that we were trying to hit open my mail as well and make sure that we did that I I think we left off today Evan with feeling like we were 50% there I do as well I just like I said I want to make sure that want to bring it up for the the rest of the committee as well okay got it all right so our top 10 that we wanted to have on here was a table and graph the tact increases due to an override which I've already pulled um I've pulled it down and I have it in a spreadsheet that I will be working on uh shortly so I will be so it's currently sitting in this file right here which like I said I will go through and change numbers I'm going to change the tax rate um to the new proposed one as well so we can readjust the numbers and I'll go through and adjust these numbers so we'll have them from 250k up to 1.5 million um as well as the average household cost so the average increase that we can expect to see across the town um and I believe uh Miss Madam Town manager what are we currently at that the board of assessor report for the likely tax rate for fy2 was it 14 and for for fiscal 25 yes the estimated that was in my presentation right and I'll stress estimated exactly give me one second I'll put that okay [Music] the without the override the estimated tax rate would be 1435 and then right and that's without a change in New Growth right or any uh assessed valuation change Beyond 2% and the estimated with the override is additional 41 cents making that $1 14.76 76 okay perfect thank you very much welcome so I will edit that as well for this one because I'm using the 1455 so everyone's taxes will drop technically in Theory not actually but on this graph all the numbers will actually drop what the assessed values of the properties obviously is going to be all over the place from the reevaluation um from uh dropping actually toal increases and then I'll do a side by side with um what they can expect to be at the override value of 1476 as well so that will take care of the first one and I'm not going to get into anything more other than just here's the table and a Gra gra full they have it and you can see it and that's it and it's there's it's nothing but the information again wanted to take everything out of this um the next one was acknowledgement of and reasoning behind the increased line by line scrutiny of each budget by fincom um so that is addressed I'll just read what we have so far so this is the lunenberg finance committee annual report for fy2 preliminary document uh the L lunenberg finance committee is reporting that lunenberg financial position is changing and some post pandemic effects are starting to show that has Financial impact the town as a whole in planning for the fiscal year 25 thanks to the town's conservative practice practice for many years the town was able to make it through the difficulties of some Financial instability as a result many of the town's departments are currently operating below their needs level budget there are positions that continue to remain un filled for a variety of reasons causing strain unsa departments that are operating without a full staff um second paragraph gets into the second point there the process of developing and presenting a budget to the annual town meeting begins in the early fall with the town manager meeting with department heads to discuss expenses wants and needs the town manager then presents the proposed budget to the finance committee in mid-February over the following 90 days the finance committee meets with the various department heads to discuss their indiv idual line line item budget budget request this year the additional scrutiny was given to every single line an attempt to holistically understand the appropriation of all funds and the impact on the operational elements of all departments through the deliberative process the finance committee determines the historic budget schedule May not offer sufficient time for appropriate analysis the finance committee then votes we'll rework this this is an addition obviously uh the finance committee then votes on the recommendation of the finalized Omnibus budget provided by the town manager and reports to the annual town meeting as a legislative body acting on the town's behalf the finance committee recommend recommends the approval 5 to one to one of the budget as presented at the annual town meeting and then the capital plan we wanted to get into as well that was the third item historically the capital plan has been funded for free cash tax revenues and unspent capital appropriation from pre prior years for FY 25 the capital plan fund exclusively through free cash $1,672 36 and unspent capital um oh this needs to get moved around we'll fix that $3,397 62 unspent Capital appropriation from prior year the proposed Capital plan of 1,317 19.98 is a 35% decrease from the FY 24 Capital funding the reduction in capital plan spending is partly due to the loss of 3 $4,000 of of 40s State funds and the allocation of 236,000 of certified New Growth being directed towards to the school department Budget Finance committee recommends the approval 6 to1 of the fy2 capital plan um the next one was to get into the debt spending portion so preparing the town for upcoming debt spending we have a policy not to borrow more than 4% of our operating budget for non-excludable debt we currently we are currently at about 7% and falling so this is the last portion we made it through the end of FY 24 we'll see a 16.39% reduction of our debt service and excludable debt from 3,51 16182 23 to 2,939 9562 this decrease as the result of a reduction in the sewer debt and a reduction in msba Frable debt an analysis run by uni bank in 2023 projected a variety of scenarios to guide the town in debt capacity spending over the next 30 Years in total the town continues to have $42 million that will be usable while remaining under debt capacity limit with this number in mind the select board Municipal design build uh Municipal design committee and the town will be better prepared to plan for the future Town policy dictates not Bing more than 4% of our operating budget for non-executable debt currently the town maintains appr approximately 7% of our operating budget in non-excludable debt other there is debt capacity there currently does not exist a funding source and that's as far as we've made it so far with this one so that addresses everything except for uh the chapter 90 funds and the fair share the millionaires tax which we need to get into I did hear from Mr Leon about um where the funds are coming from for the Chapter 70 money and that goes into the higher education portion of the free tuition for anyone over 25 with an associates degree and there were two other points that they' listed in there I believe it's the the preschool meals as well and one other one as well so we are seeing the the millionaires tax Pro chapters coming through um on the school side um the grant writing services needs to be added into this um a statement of the upcoming town needs in terms of services buildings and upkeep uh I wonder if we should add in our our position on sort of a level service for every Department in town position um I think we should make a statement about level service um that's factual um and also highlight that it does pause um increases to the um police um hiring plan and um um the road maintenance budget and any other ones that are are looing me right now but I made notes on that um right now so that we can incorporate those as well that's a good point um excuse me and then the our um request to look into consolidating and streamlining of departments between the town and the schools and then lastly statement of the upcoming into the talent for services building upkeep expansion replacement salary Etc kind of taking a look at that level service I guess that would be filling into that level service need yeah but so I guess at this point is there I know it reads very very roughly we need to polish this up quite a bit but is there anything that kind of stands out as anything beyond just factual information or does anything seem factually inaccurate as well I want to make sure where you're correct on everything we have here in the section talking about uh promoting level funding and talking about pausing the uh increases in positions to the police department and and wherever else those are I I feel there should be some mention that it's also uh required us to pause needed uh increases in employee hours to continue and grow services in certain areas I don't know how to State it but I think you guys get what I'm talking about the list Town manager has put out there last week right yep exactly I mean that was that was part of the give and take to get to where we are and and you know there there there is going to be need for something to be done in those areas in the future right can't do them now but they really it it's really too bad they all got cut so I'm making notes on um what both of you know Mr manard and yourself Mr pus have just said but you know please do as you know you're going throughout your day and your weekend you know email notes over so that we can continue to you know incorporate everyone's thoughts yep and we'll continue to work on this um so that it's out before a couple hours before the meeting next week as well so that people have time to kind of read through it themselves um it is currently in our documents drive like I said I believe it's in the root folder of fy2 in the budgets folder um it's an edible editable document so feel free please to to go in and make changes to it we can't do that EV no we can't do that I'm sorry yeah submit you shouldn't even show the edit you can show it because you're showing it right now it's a public document that so I misspoke I'm sorry download it edit it and then send it over to Tiffany and myself do not edit it and put it back into the the folder wow I really am get getting all this m uh messed up today yes please do not edit it live in the folder because that is a direct violation of open meeting law if you're going to make edits to it take it to your computer and then send it back to Tiffany specifically um not to the entire committee and we're going to continue to try to carve out any time that we have to you know get this done and finalized if this did want to make the warrant what would be the absolute drop dead date I mean I don't tomorrow going to the printers to make it to the warrant it's the drop dead date is tomorrow that's the extended date that we were given okay worst worst case Tuesday but we wouldn't could we the meeting for Tuesday there's no emergency to what's the emergency to call an emergency meeting oh an eclipse we could say it there an eclipse the sun disappeared and we didn't know why but if it was posted why couldn't it you know we discussed this that we're not worried about being um I I don't think we need to revisit this at this point what it is the town is closed tomorrow so we can't post tomorrow so we wouldn't be able to post until Monday so at the earliest we would be able to have a meeting would be Wednesday good which I mean if there is a desire to have a meeting on on Wednesday and then on Thursday I can post it but I feel like we've hit our quota for hours for this year already well if you did it on Wednesday it still wouldn't meet the still miss the date right yeah so it doesn't matter so if we can't do it Tuesday and it's not an because it's not an emergency um then we've already as Dave mentioned it's I guess we'll just have to uh you know put it in that after the fact I would like to at least try to get a finalized vote on it on next Wednesday or next Thursday though I agree what we could do is share it on the website and through social media when we put the booklet the final booklet up I think that would be great if that's an option um you know I think we ran into timing issues because it it really wasn't much time and having a holiday last weekend you know Evan and I originally talked and we had plans we were going to make this happen on Sunday and then we said oh wow like it's a holiday you know and that's a lot of that's on me I didn't even know there was a holiday until we had meeting on Thursday so maybe it was mentioned to me and just filed in the back of my brain but you know my time got redirected okay I I think this is a good start and I think the topics we talked about if I think of anything else in the meantime I'll fire it off to you okay thank you thank you all right so that moves us on to the old the only other thing we have for old business is FY 25 budget discussion I'm pretty sure oh Mr you have your hand up a question or was that from before yeah I am gonna um you know log off but you know thank you everyone and I apologize I'm you know leaving the meeting early this has kind of hit my my final wall so thank you all for everything and I will see everyone next week thank you for all the work you're doing all the work you're doing thank you thanks okay um so again the old business the only thing that's left in here is just an FY 25 budget discussion which as far as I'm concerned we've kind of already had unless anyone has any other discussions they want to have about the budget currently want to start FY 26 might as well I've got the Baseline number already we can calculate the levy um okay hearing none uh there are no new minutes in the drive I haven't even had a chance to look to see if we've edited I know we have one on hold I'd say we just continue to have it on hold and I'll try and take a look at it this week and make the adjustments that I believe Mr pasos was talking about um are there any committee report I've got one from Green communities it'll be real quick um we finally met Monday night after two missteps on posting meetings last week um so we organized which is something that's been on the table for quite a while so we do have a chair Vice chair and a clerk uh also we thoroughly discussed and are moving forward with hoping to get into the April uh Grant round with the sewer commission's project uh um which is going after funding for the pump upgrades and the controllers for those pumps in all their pumping stations um there is a little concern as to whether there's going to be enough savings Energy savings they're still trying to calculate that out um so we're just crossing our fingers and waiting for that last number uh and then the application needs to be in I believe it's either May 10th or May 15th I think it's May 10th um the other little small piece in that is we have set aside $5,000 towards uh next police cruiser that will be purchased um there are two more hybrids that will come on one one this year one next year that's where we're at oh and then just so everybody knows there is an increase in the maximum amount that can be awarded uh in this grant round it's $225,000 instead of 200,000 that's it but Dave made me remember we should add something about the grant writer to the report yeah it's on I have it on the list as well oh okay I missed that yeah I sent I had sent Tiffany our list of 10 topics um okay when we started this and number nine was the grant writing services so we still have to get to that one as well and number 10 is the consolidation and streamlining of departments between town and the school so that will get on there as well do we want actually do we want to address miss m Key's suggestion of the task force budgetary task force yeah I mean we had talked about something similar to that earlier in the year as well so I think it's I think we should at least put it on there is is that something they voted to do this board no it's something no they're going to deal with it after we get through this part of the Season yeah then I would I would agree with uh with Mr manard that we we recommend that that that be done okay I'll add on the 11th one so for committee reports Parks met a week or two ago I forget it's all bluring together uh they did vote on their recommendations for the owner's project manager for Marshall Park um but now I think it goes to to manager to to uh negotiate based on those recommendations and then just as a service announcement on that they are doing a bunch of cleanup days and weather willing there's a um a discussion at the um um Beach there's a project at the beach house this weekend that was looking for um for volunteers as well so um you know one good way to help the town is to volunteer on things and there are some opportunities coming up I think it's on their websites for uh to sign up to volunteer for stuff but the earth a cleanups right yep yeah there's the dog pound or there's the pound there's the uh there's a whole bunch of them the beach uh a couple different um conservation areas Trail marking Trail cleanup yep and then if you want to do it on your own I think DPW gives you another slightly different yellow bag to pick up trash around town and um I guess the beach house isn't on that sign up I just got notified but if anyone wants to help with that they're tearing up brugs and getting it ready again trying to save BS through volunteerism thank you any other committee reports for the evening all right topics for future meeting anything off hand anyone wants to get into after all this done other than what we currently have listed and what we've taken down before fantastic upcoming meetings we are scheduled to have our regular April meetings on the 11th and the 25th um I have not put in a request to have a meeting on the 18th that's school vacation week I'm not sure where people are going to be um I don't see us needing to be holding an extra meeting um since we do have the vast majority of our articles are actually voted on we're only missing those two and like I said they're small small small money articles that are pretty standard so I'm fine having our 411 meeting um to finalize our report and possibly vote on those last two articles and then we may not need to have our 425 meeting at all at this point unless anybody wants to meet on the 18th I'm happy not to uh and then on March 4th or May 4th Star Wars day is the annual town meeting starting at 9ine o'clock at the middle high school and two weeks after that is the town election and with that I will open up for a final public comment from the public this evening right seeing none is there any public comment from the committee I'll just say thank you to all for working through this over the last few months hopefully it's not like this next year I would absolutely Echo that thank you to all the committee members for your extra long hours and extra looking at this uh all the work we put in this year I appreciate it um and thank you to the department head and town manager and the school committee and school department for pulling everything together it's been a flog but at least we've finally got things I think nailed down uh exactly one month ahead of town meeting but I know it was a large lift and I do appreciate it um and now we can move forward and go to town meeting uh with that is there a motion to adjourn still moved second right motions made in seconded roll call vote Mr pasos hi Mr Simeone hi Mr Gray hi Mr Berard I and an I from myself it's 8:40 we're back to those those meetings thank God everyone have a great evening we'll see you next week thank you thank you take care everyone thank you