##VIDEO ID:WLC_SdFeTv0## okay welcome everyone to the Parks Commission meeting it's Thursday October 10th in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and it will be broadcast over the lunenberg public access Channel and uploaded to the lunenberg access YouTube channel this meeting will be held in person at the location provided on the notice the agenda lists all of the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law so to open this meeting um I'm going to take a roll call vote because we do have one member was joining us remotely so we have Karen manard here Chris Sullivan he's he will join us he's remote col here and Anita sher's chair here and we have with us also tonight Chris Ruth our facilities director so we have a very limited um agenda tonight but not sure how limited the discussion will be um the purpose of tonight's meeting was to basically update the Commission in terms of where the cost estimates have come in for the Marshall Park project and we need to make a decision about what we want to put forward in the motion for the warrant article for the borrowing for the remainder of the Marshall Park project um we have had several iterations of cost estimates that the town has done over time and uh the the last cost estimate that we had was in January of 2024 less than a year and um but we when we went and changed the design firm that we're working with from wola who is now fuss O'Neal uh to the firm of rdla out of Boston um it basically required that we do a new cost estimate because the we no longer in schematic stage we are in a deeper design stage almost at completion of Phase One Design so unfortunately the cost estimates that have come in for phase one um exceed the amount that we have available actual funds available and so that is one thing the other thing is is that we need to determine what additional funds over the available money we have now what additional funds we want to put and ask the voters at the November 12th special time meeting what do we want them to fund for additional funds for the park project so if the committee can look at this little spreadsheet on the left the yellow is um a little a brief spreadsheet that the previous Town manager had put together to try to determine how much of the funds that had been appropriated at that time um have actually been spent so the funds that were available at that time were the $50,000 from the capital plan conceptual design then there was 25,000 for Capital plan survey another town meeting boote for 184,000 for um schematics engineering so that added up to 259,000 out of those funds we have already spent money for conceptual design a survey a schematic design some civil engineering a cost update and um some other miscellaneous expenses that came in at $6,650 so the net of that the available funds after those expenses are 142,5 120 in addition to that we have the arpa funds which the Selectmen have allocated to this project in $1 million we also then to that I'm adding the remaining available funds of the 142 320 and we have the park rant which is at 500,000 which gives us money that we now have available 1 m642 320 but from that amount we have spent approximately $55,000 I need to double check that number with you in terms of what's been paid um I'm putting in $5,000 for that I think that's conservatively High we have contract obligations for our OPM owners project management firm for not to exceed amount of 250,000 and we have the design firm rdla which we have a not to exceed contract amount in 143,000 those are for phase one so when you do all the math that means the remaining funds that we have for actual construction of phase one is 1,244 320 now un fortunately that is far below what the um updated cost estimates came in as um there was another design team meeting today where um actually we talked about this last week last Wednesday no yesterday we talked Wednesday I'm losing track I'm sorry Wednesday we had a a design team meeting a team zoom meeting and you know we let them know that you know that we need to do value engineering to make this work um but last night I had significant concerns about how many dollars do we actually have available because we've been working on rounded numbers and not exact figures which always makes me stress out so uh this morning I worked on trying to update the numbers to get the exact number of dollars we have available and came up with this 1,244 320 I haven't yet worked with our finance director to make sure that he agrees with this number but I do feel it's a you know we are much more accurate than we have been in terms of any discussions that we've had in the past few months so the design team meeting that we had again today was to look at that cost estimate the updated cost estimate of yesterday which brought us to $1,600,000 roughly you know I told you all that there would be some reductions we asked them to do value engineering at that time we thought the number we had available was the 1.6 it's not so today's discussion was what additional value engineering can we do to make this work for phase one with what we have available what we know we can commit so um there was a lot of discussion and we aren't there yet I the um owner project manager sent me what he thought was the updated budget reflecting the discussion points we had this afternoon but it didn't come through that way so I'm not even going to bother to give it to you as soon as I get the corrected version I'll send that out to all of you but um needless to say uh that we still have things that we need to look at to reduce um to get down to the on we know we have available so that's frustrating um the other thing is that in the course of making those adjustments some of the things that we had planned to do in Phase One have been pushed off to phase two but phase two costs in that new updated cost estimate were also more expensive so by pushing off Phase One cost into phase two we are just pushing off additional expense which means that um you know what do we decide to ask for for town meeting for this fall this November 12th special town meeting um Anna Lockwood previous chair of this commission and I met with the interim Town manager the other day and asked him you know what are you seeing in terms of um where the budget lies um for this coming fiscal year and you know because the intent is that what we're borrowing will be within the normal operating budget this will not be a Deb exclusion borrowing this will be within um the town operating budget and he basically said that he cannot see that we could ask for anything more than the 5.2 that originally been estimated roughly 18 months ago that we need we now know today that 5.2 won't be enough because we're pushing off Phase One cost into phase two and the cost estimate for Phase 2 has escalated in the same way that it escalated for phase one however he did give us very clear guidance you really cannot ask for more than the 5.2 so the purpose of tonight's meeting is to let all of you know where we stand but also this is a commission decision this isn't me as chair CH it isn't Karen and I as people who attend the special design meetings um this is something that the commission needs to make decisions about how we're going to proceed so are we in in very general thoughts do we want to go ahead and at least put on the motion for the special to me meeting warrant article that we're going to ask for the 5 .2 and continue to work with the design team to figure out what's included in the 5.2 or or not or what other actions might you suggest that we take you know we find ourselves in a conundrum Not Unusual how far off so obviously I understand we've pushed things from phase one to phase two phase two went up phase two could go up again before we actually get to it how far off is that 5.2 because there's also some potential for some grants that haven't come in yet or that one we're just waiting on the Ada not just the Ada right now doesn't mean we we will apply for more but we have to make decisions now based on what we have right or don't have it's off and that's I mean I don't have the because because that's spr she wasn't right right but like and I apologizing it it's fine if they didn't get it to you you can't have it but I mean I feel like how far off that is is is irrelevant because we don't want to ask for this money and then need another $2 million in order to even move forward or something or is it something that we might be able to close the gap I me there's only so much value in and they're going to do correct you know is there anything that we are willing that we could take off that would make up the difference there's there's there's there's things we can take off and put off for a future date yet to be determined when that might happen however I don't want to go into a lot of detail yet because I don't know the ramifications right but I need to be honest and say that we have made commitments for Grants the park Grant and then the land and water conservation grant that we would include certain components of the park design that's why I didn't know in Phase One and in phase two what could actually come on so we run I'm I'm just going to say this briefly because I don't want to go into more detail until I've had a chance to speak to them but we run the risk that if we take too much off they will say we are no longer e meeting Our obligation under that contract and they may not provide us the grant funds those are reimbursement grants um you know so we would be proceeding you know at the town's risk which I don't think any of us want to do lightly or do at all so you need to be aware of that so what's the worst case scenario if we ask for the 5.2 you have to go back and ask for more more in the in the um annual town meeting at there you know against whatever the budget would be right it could be special town meeting next year could be could be it could I mean it's um there's just so many moving parts to it and we're just we're just in a I don't think any of us ever expected to be in this I think when that new quote came in last week um took me all of five minutes to be on the phone with Chris Ruth it took me all of 10 minutes to be on the phone with Anita um just because it was such a substantial difference and needing to understand why and now I think after listening in today I'm starting to understand more why it it is but it's not it's not any commissioner's fault it's not Chris's fault it's just it sort of is the nature of the way things went and um you know so yeah I think we could be back in you know the earliest we could be back in annual town meeting or it would be special town meeting my biggest concern in all of this is the grants because it's twofold it's actually twofold the only good thing is the only good thing is that both of these grants are out of the same office so our contact is the same so if we just go back on the land and water grant the land and water grant um is a million dollars that's for phase two work for phase two work that is has a match of $5.2 million in order to get that million doll Grant all of that was submitted using the most upto-date information we had at that time at that time which was which was a cost estimate in January I think we're over that so the my concern is if we're removing stuff from phase one now we have to you know we've got that Grant issue to deal with now we're moving into phase two and we're now going to potentially have to remove some items that are on the land and water conservation grants what their responses and we don't know that because it's until like this all of this budget stuff has been within the last five days six days there's so it's not like we've had you know a we're not sitting on time of just not reaching out to somebody we just we didn't have it so we don't know what the response is going to be from the state and that's where that's where my concern lies right now is because if we lose these grants if they say to us you're not but let's use the um5 million the 500,000 one for phase one if we lose that $500,000 Grant now we're taking $1.2 million and we're deducting $500,000 from it and at that point there's so little that can be done do you feel like what they mooved from phase one to phase two won't impact that or do you think it might impact that we mean the 5.2 million yeah oh it'll impact that for sure it will impact that yeah it's just we're pushing money down a road and you know then there will be additional potential escalation costs which will increase those cost more um you know I haven't I obviously this is all new information that we've just received this afternoon no I wish I had you know more definitive information to give all of you but I don't I need to contact the park Grant administrators and explain the situation to them and I need to do it before we make more final decisions definitely need to do it before town meeting because we owe the town we owe our voters we owe the town meeting voters clear concise information about what we're able to do and what the impacts will be you know this is a good project we all want to see it still happen I think it can happen I think part of it depends on how flexible the state is willing to be with us in terms of the items that actually get completed under phase one for the park rant and complete it under phase two with the Landon water conservation Grant well and I think that grant money is like the biggest selling point for the it has been down you know I mean there's two there's it's that in itself is is wonderful because you all did all of that work before I even came on board and you were successful in getting those grants for the town that is huge work and I hope our citizens understand how much work has gone into getting those Grant funds um um it's just unfortunate um that the estimates have gone up when we asked why um you know I don't want to dwell on negatives but the the previous firm that was used for cost estimates was not as accurate and concise plus unfortunately given the market right now of what's going on there's um all the communities have been holding off on doing various different projects and um the um arpa funds and other funds that they may have had available now all of a sudden they have a deadline to get them spent and um so you know we're we're running into seeing increased prices because contractors will bid you know higher pricing when they know that they've got plenty of competition they can choose the projects They Want Chris can speak to that um so that works against us and everybody's raising against losinga M right and and that's you know another thing that um you know we we do need to get this project out to bid and get a contract signed by the end of the C this calendar year unless we hear otherwise Anna Lockwood is working with the inm toown manager partan zini to get that clarification because it was time of our understanding that we already were locked in and that was not an issue but um we're hearing from other people now that it it still is an issue and that contracts need to be executed before the end of the year so that we don't miss that deadline of of commitment to the arpa funds so we'll find out but in these situations I always air on the side of caution and I told the design firm and the OPM firm today that assume it needs to be done before the end of the year and if we find we have extra time we have extra time that's great but you know let's be conservative here and try to get things done so I think it would be my recommendation knowing that all of this has come up in the last fiveish days would be to move ahead with requesting 5.2 million only because it a number needs to be given to the town manager by the 15th I think that this will buy us let's say four weeks time to continue with the discussions and to obviously not sit back and take all four weeks because I know that decisions have to be made sooner than later um and then if we as a group decide that there is a different direction we need to be taken regardless of what that is I I don't know what maybe somebody will have a thought that that we haven't had yet um because the worst case scenario is we can always you know asked to you know pull that article or amend whatever we amend it if we wanted to can't we could amend it but what are we going to amend it to or we can just right right ask byass it whatever pass pass pass over um just because I know that a number needs to be put in where our interim Town manager seemed to be okay with the I wasn't at that meeting seemed to be okay with the 5.2 very clear not to ask for any more than that I can't see us asking for anything less than that at this point given the numbers that we have it currently available that would be my suggestion and let us keep moving forward I have another suggestion after this conversation um you know just to be able to I think we need some more time to and I think we need we do need more information heads we need more information I think we and we have time to get some of that more information before town meeting the issue is getting the number so that they can get the warrant right printed and out to everybody so to your point there's we can change our minds we have we have flexibility in so many way town meeting you know or Ahad whatever it it we can just do this so that it still is something we can even talk about at town meeting we right if we don't good point move ahead then it it will have to wait until spr right so I I do want to say that the the 5.2 is um a number that we're still sticking with and which the interim Town manager encouraged us to stick with for the very reason that 5.2 is a number that had been plugged into the debt schedule the inside operating budget debt schedule there is old debt that is coming off the books this new debt will replace that so the intent was to time it in such a way that this would not add additional debt within the operating budget it would just replace old debt and you know and very different than you know this is we are not asking for a debt exclusion which would ask for additional tax impact above and beyond the operating budget that is not what we're doing at this time so um so is that a motion they yeah so I'll make a motion that we um move forward with $5.2 million in the warrant article for Marshall Park oh second then okay do we have Chris still or do we live y I'm still here I I can second that okay do you have do you have any questions Chris I don't at this point I mean I think it all makes sense I mean it's it's it is what we need to do now um so I'm I'm okay with you know putting the 5.2 and that's where we go okay um because we have Chris Ruth here tonight he was kind enough to come in case we had specific questions um Chris wasn't able to participate in today's discussion but um with the design firm Etc with the revised budget but um I believe were you copied on that I was I got to look at itot a minute and so I haven't had any little time to go through it yet right so um the design team is meeting again next Thursday um at 2 um and it would be really helpful if you could really try to buckle down and take a strong look at that because um I wish what he had sent out reflected some of the changes we talked about today maybe you can email Tom if you have any questions and have him resent that but um you know that it's it still seems like there are some things that are included in the phase one that could still be pushed off to phase two and should appropriately be pushed off in the phase two because it's related they're related to phase two work not phase one work um you know it's we we need to get the phase one estimate down to the 1.24 or4 million that we have um we can't in good conscience move ahead with it unless we have it there with funds we know we have available if we're able to get donations or additional grants in the meantime that help provide additional funds you know we may get that ADA grant for the playground equipment it would come in which would help um but we can't assume that so you know we I feel very strongly that we need to move ahead and get that cost estimate to the 1.22 and we also need to find out from the park Grant administrators what you know are they willing to still support our grant if we have that reduced scope that fit the funds we have available those are going to be that's going to be a key factor in terms of you know how we proceed and what we're able to you know tell tell meeting that we're dealing with yes so I know we have to vote on this but if we as because I think that the next we don't meet again for 13 days we need right the 23rd is our next meeting um do we need do you think we're going to need to meet before that on any of this or do you think we're going to be okay holding that course on the 23rd um I mean you can decide any it doesn't have to be decided now if you think we need to do another meeting we can call one I just don't if what I don't want to have happen and this is not this isn't directed towards anybody it's just you know we've been doing these meetings with rdla and scansa for I don't know what a month or so now I think we've had two or three and I don't want anybody to feel like they're in the dark on any of this project especially where there's new information coming out and things that are going to happen you know that things that may happen that we may have to you know bring down the scope of something or make some decisions and I don't want anybody to feel like they've been left in the dark because this is not an inexpensive project um and I want everybody to feel comfortable with any votes that they make and decisions that they're you know they're part of so I mean I guess if next week comes and you feel like we need to have a quick meeting of something you could just throw my only problem is I'm heading away in vacation um doesn't mean you all can't meet without me or you know I can try to participate by phone um or Zoom take your vacation time well but this is important but um I think I'm I need to have my heads on straight when I call the Park Grant administrators so that will probably have happen Monday or so and I'll obviously you know give you all just a quick FYI um to let you know what that is FYI only for the purpose that's information that you can think over until we next meet so that we can discuss it at the open meeting and then make decisions um probably won't be until to you L either can't imagine miday oh yeah oh that's right see when you're retired you forget these things thank you um our next our regular meeting is the 23rd 23rd y so do you want to take a vote on that um yeah we haven't we haven't voted on the five yet it's been moved and seconded all in favor roll call Karen I Colleen I Chris I and me I so all in favor um Chris while I have you and before you jump off this was my other my my random thought and I did run this by Anita beforehand want to make sure that both of you and Tim although I don't think Tim would take me up on this offer um have the opportunity if they so choose to sit on sit with st R some of these meetings I would take a step back to let one of you guys come in and and do that um because once we have three people it's a quorum and it we have to post meetings and stuff but if somebody would like to to you know do that even if it's not long term even if it's just you know I know that I'll get upd um from Anita you know at our meetings and stuff so if one of you would like to go to some of these meetings they're all Zoom they're all Zoom right now they're Thursdays at 2 o'clock um and it's you know just lots of discussion back and forth are they available that we could watch them because here's the thing I would like to sit in and hear what they have to say but there's only so much you get when you have you know when you don't have the context you haven't been there figuring out what's going on and for you every time you miss a meeting you lose something for the next time there is something to have continuity in that but are those available that like we could watch they're not recorded they're not recorded at all so I I suppose we could get probably get minutes from that oh absolutely yes so maybe like you must get the minutes right we get them um they're not immediately sent out but yes we can forward all and maybe even if you could just I know they're going to get them to you as soon they can but they have people identified to do that so maybe if you could share with them that we would I mean Chris may go but you know when you because Community is really important I for you and I won't be going to get half out of going that you because I don't I can say right now though there's um there's a there's nothing right now that if I wasn't part of the discussion I would necessarily Miss because they going to be discussions and decisions on the budget I know what we have for money I know what the estimates the new estimates are I I I know where the price differences is I'm started to really connect the dots of how we went from a to what I feel is z at this point um in jumping of prices I I have a a good understanding of how that happened why it happened and what should have happened at this point um so I'm not overly concerned so if one of you guys wants to do that um that's fine with me I'm going to completely oh my kid just saw the northern lights and I'm completely jealous sitting in I know here tonight I know I'm just I'm I'm getting a million texts for people um so you know whatever so I'm just throwing it out there to Chris to um Colleen to Tim if if one of you guys wants to go to the meeting please let me know I'm happy to take a step back um we're not into anything at this point that I feel like if we're missing something that I'd be missing something by not being there um you know again it's um it's completely up to you guys we can share we can certainly share those meeting minutes with you as they come in I don't I actually have not looked at them to see how detailed they are with concerns and things like that that have come up or how the discussions are being captured um I should look at them but the others were just such General meting were the that really you know had a lot of information that needed to be captured so we'll see how how accurate those are um so I just I I just felt that you all needed to be brought up to speed in terms of where we are um we need that number to move forward um and if if for some reason something else comes up that we feel we need to alter our course of how we're going to proceed here I will you know I I'll send you every update as it comes to me you'll have it as FYI as explained FYI meaning it's for your information to review in preparation for our next open meeting where we'll have it discussed in an open meeting um obviously if any of you have any questions in the meantime feel free to call me um I'll answer your questions as and best able I'm just going to throw out here that we might want to um so we have the meeting on the 23rd and then tab meeting is the 12th right um I'm just going to throw out that we might want to be prepared at that meeting on the 23rd to see if we need another meeting it's you know it's only a couple weeks y but we just might want to be thinking about that so we have another meeting before town meeting so we have a chance to revisit because something tells me this is going to kind of be a moving Target I believe it even past that it okay um as I can as chair I can send out emails to try to um find dates that are workable for another meeting for everybody um so I will do that tomorrow and get feedback from all of you and we'll choose a date for having a second meeting in case it's needed um sometime between the 23rd and town meeting special town meeting on the November 12th okay sounds good does anybody else have any questions or concerns concerns no okay Chris I'm I'm good I would I would have echoed Karen to your point I was goingon to Echo what Colleen said just in terms of you know just a continuity thing not KN but definitely would like to look at minutes and so forth and see what those um you know see what those look like and yeah for sure gain some gain some insight okay all right we as soon they come through I will send them along okay if if everyone's good at this point I'll take a motion to make a motion to adjourn at 7:36 Al so get that okay roll call all in favor hi I Chris Sullivan hi and me I so all he yes to adjourn at 7:36 p.m. thanks ch have a good game thanks they're winning 5 nothing awesome nine minutes nine minutes left awesome have a good