##VIDEO ID:D4gzqLF4riE## recording in progress we get on uh over there okay good all right uh tonight is October 9th it is 6:35 p.m. we are in the lower room at the Ritter uh municipal building and I am calling our meeting of the capital planning committee to order and of course in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be available on lunberg access YouTube channel after the meeting uh the meeting is available uh in a hybrid form via Zoom at the zoom link provided on the meeting agenda which has been posted um in the event that there is a problem with the remote meeting feature this meeting will proceed as scheduled as the location the aforementioned location the agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed will in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law okay um is there any public comment no seeing none and seeing nobody in the zoom I will move on uh chair's report um a few things to report uh following our most recent meeting um I went ahead and met with the interim Town manager about the request to standardize our presentations and um ideally to accelerate our calendar um I think as everybody knows at this point that has been uh a challenge uh however um what happened in the interim was that U Mr tanzini um uh appointed mure the library director as a coordinator to work with the department heads to try to standardize the presentations as well as to to help us get things scheduled uh and I have communicated the the proposed schedule um via email and we'll talk about that in a little bit more detail later on um um and the what you will see tonight from the um soon Tobe interim police chief uh Lieutenant Tibido is the first of our presentations which will be from the police department and uh we'll have it and facilities and DPW and schools uh in in our following meetings um a week ago last Monday I was invited to participate in in the um budget committee meeting there was a discussion about capital and its effects on the budget I would encourage those of you who are interested um it is available on YouTube I answered a number of questions from the board um talking about my experience with the capital planning over the last two years and even before that uh my experience as a member of the finance committee over the 3 years before that um what we have experienced how we have gone about um prioritizing capital and and what our past practice has been how that um squares up or doesn't square with our Charter charge and and what our best intentions are moving forward um there was some discussion about the the fiscal piece of this and our lack of uh visibility into the funding mechanis is Ms and funding projections associated with capital and uh you know I shared my opinions which I've shared with all of you uh pertaining to that um and I'm most interested to see what uh what the special budget committee is going to come back with uh in terms of recommendations and I certainly availed myself for future discussions assuming to talk about the budget task force budget task force yes I'm sorry okay yeah yeah y um earlier today um I was invited for a meeting with Mr Bernard uh who wanted to talk about some uh special concerns and considerations he had pertaining to the DPW budget uh we talked about a DPW Capital planning request um we talked uh in some detail about um whether and how to include items that he anticipates being funded by chapter 90 and how that may interact with the capital plan uh for what it's worth my advice was to include it but obviously we would include that funding source in our consideration for how we made a recommendation and how we worked with the town manager on that um he also expressed uh some concern for uh in particular the the cemeteries and the cemetery expansion which if you guys recall last year um we're nearing the point where we have to do some expansion work on North Cemetery uh in order to be to continue to sell Lots um the cemetery commission has not met in at least a couple of months um and there is a sum of money that they have access to um that there needs to be a discussion in terms of whether that money will be uh available for that sort of project and and he's hoping to get that resolved um and ready for his presentation um before they come which will be roughly a month from now um and and that is it in terms of um Capital specific uh conversations um we will have a a conversation later today um specifically about uh uh our schedule for followon meetings um one thing that I neglected to include um in the um in the agenda was the um draft uhi fiscal policies manual which I had distributed at our last meeting and asked for commentary on uh Mr Bowen sent me an email today which was great with some commentary on it uh however also reminded me that I in doing so reminded me that I did not include it on the agenda um so I will uh uh uh obviously we will not discuss that tonight but I would encourage any members if you would like to send me additional commentary that I can roll up uh and and gather for a uh substantive discussion on that at a subsequent meeting I would be happy to do so um one item of note on that that was a comment from me that I believe has been resolved um since our last meeting was my concern that the the the proposed manual was inclusive of existing policies bylaws State best practice but it was not necessarily annotated as to the source of those um and my concern that actually getting our policies aligned with that document might be more of a task than we um than than we were wanted to sign up for um I believe at a subsequent select board meeting uh Mr tanzini advised that we should treat that document as proposed policy so basically a wholesale replacement for fiscal policy everything would be applicable is enshrined in that document and therefore we don't would not need to do a line by line replacement of policy but that would ideally be reopt it in totality by the select I know we're not going to discuss it tonight but our section of it what I did was I went through the bylaws and the charter oh je and I I did those are annotations and in some cases it was just a weird phrasing difference that they decided to use different words in other cases it was completely different but you what you'll see is my annotations of the other okay great other things well I appreciate you doing that work I'm not he didn't send it to the whole he just sent it to me which was the right way to do it just um I don't recall Mr terenzini saying that comment because I know okay it may have been at a school committee I he didn't I don't think he unless there was a meeting I was not at which it was only one in the last few month yes that was my understanding anyway from a recent comment from him um so my my advice would be to if you do go through it and and send commentary send it from the position of proposed policy in totality rather than thinking about okay well this is one thing that doesn't necessarily jive with that this would this would supersede uh all existing policy is Mr chair I'm assuming we are is is the purpose for us to focus on just the C not the which we I I have no intention of this committee doing anything more than the capital section which I think is a totality of about a page and a half or two pages yeah was yeah okay all right um we have on the agenda review and approved minutes I did not put the dates I sent uh an update um which had been forwarded uh to us over the course of the summer and I reforwarded it to the committee adding Mr Bowen who I don't think was copied we can take action on those minutes tonight or we can them at our next meeting I I haven't looked at you looked I just got it today so I'm happy with tbling that so um one one um and I should have included this in the chair's report um that that we do need to put some thought into is where we are going to put our documents um so the practice last year was to use a SharePoint file or teams file um that had been set up um um by suer it I believe um Mr Menard um um administered that for us the challenge that I had with that was that not having a town email address they never got the the the uh permissions correct throughout the entire season and now operating as chair I'm not confident in my ability to to manage those documents um within a town SharePoint file uh because for those of you who are not keeping score the school department operates on Google and the town operates on Microsoft Office and so there are certain incomp incompatibilities this being one of them um one thought is that um the school department does use Google um and we can use a Google Drive for this purpose but what it would require is the members to um establish a Google account through their Town email and a and a password so that's one option we don't have to resolve this today but I just want to bring this to your attention that we do have a document sharing challenge um and Mr bow I don't believe that you have a town email address at this point I do not okay uh you can get one um I don't know mandatory my old one is kicking around I think they I think they well they they don't generally remove them they just DEA but if you haven't oh you be a long time ago so you yeah so you you have a you don't have you had lber online.com it's not the same domain yeah yeah so any computers when I was it was the thing with the beads yeah yeah back in the days when we had a computer advisory committee if you remember that um in any event um that is a to be resolved item we're going to deal with email attachments for the time being but that is just because this is being recorded I want to share my absolute frustration that here we are in 2024 and we don't even have a way for a committee that's been a long-standing committee to even share documents and get it done in one call or one email to the people responsible to share documents as a shared Drive where only we could see them somehow this evades the prowess of the people taking care of our system which is just unconscionable to me Podium put away don't care no I don't want it I I don't want people to see this and not say that somebody didn't say anything because if they may have not seen the 20 other times I've said something like this yep it is uh it is frustrating um I think there's times when we try to save $8 well exactly exactly you're absolutely right that's the problem I've had that coming from town workers where we're saving a 100 bucks and it's causing me hours and hours and hours of EX to work y because I can't get the right applications y so if that is the case let's try to just fix it amen all right so that is something for me to work on between now and our next meeting and hopefully I'll have a better story to tell at that meeting uh okay so tonight's uh under Capital request presentations uh we only have one it is the police department uh soon to be acting Chief Lieutenant Tibido is uh here to present congratulations on your than recent appointment and Confirmation um and I will go ahead um if it's okay with you and share the the PowerPoint yep if I can do that again and I'll go full screen and I am turning it over to you de members thank you for this opportunity as part of our continuous review of the lunenberg Department's operation we examine our Fleet of vehicles as well as our equipment upon completion of the review we have determined that we will be requesting two items uh two marked hybrid police cruises uh to update our 10-year Capital plan we have found that our Fleet is in good to Fair condition and we're evaluating the effectiveness of the cruiser rotation that has been implemented also by replacing gas vehicles and replacing them with Ford Explorer hybrids for multiple cost savings with fuel constrution and uh the green grants once we're able to determine the effectiveness of this program we can determine what years we can reduce purchases of uh multiple Vehicles FY 26 vehicle requests are result of vehicles that have been the fleet for extensive period in the replacement with hybrids making the Green community Grant eligible we have found that we also have outgrown the current Works Space at our facility with not enough office space for our current positions and we're working with facilities director Chris Ruth on plans to utilize a vacant second floor in the building this expansion space would be used for uh workspace cubicles we've also looked to reduce costs through grant opportunities each year with the assistance from the Town manager green communities grant funding is applied towards the purchase of the the uh hybrid cruises also grant opportunities for oh am I advancing here yeah please sorry yeah yeah so thank you this one still yeah that would be the the grant funding up up there um Department of Justice Homeland Security and the Massachusetts office of Grants and research based on on our current operations we requesting the following capital projects in listed fiscal years note that Beyond FY 207 there's a 3% increase which was used as a estimate of future cost on listed items next slide sorry FY 26 would be the replacement of two Patrol cruises it would replace 205 and 206 206 is mileage right now is at 100, 195 and uh 205's mileage is at 81,82 the estimated cost right now would be 72,5 includes a vehicle in uh A fitting on that do you want questions at the end or while you're going either way I don't care I just want I guess we can we can conquer them as we go if you if you like so the 20 both 2020s so that means I mean looks like we usually put them to 20 th you know 100,000 miles we go with 2006 but that would say that 2005 has another year left in it right so those so 2005 uh 205 and 206 have both been taken off from front line so they're no longer being used constantly on a daily basis by all the officers every shift so that's the the implementing of the Cruiser rout rotation um right now 206 is currently being used by SRO uh cam Monroe to back and forth to the school gives it a little less wear and tear on it uh you know not out there constantly running okay 205 currently we're experiencing and we've experienced problems from the beginning with 205 that was 205 was a first generation Cruiser for the hybrids for forward and um can I say it's cursed it's we experience a lot of problems with it so that would be the replacement of that so that's being used more as a second line Cruiser backup a spare if if really okay really comes down to and then followup question which we ask everybody who wants Vehicles is like okay are there any vehicles coming off off the the ownership list that we are going to get rid of as these things get demoted to not regular service that means there's probably units that are doing that already and where do they go yeah so those once those come off service they'll be auctioned and then the backup cars to that would then go to where 205 and 206 are so right now we've ordered the traffic in the K9 car those have been ordered um we probably not looking at receiving those until February based on manufacturer's uh backup and so once those come off those two cars will come off the line and they're actually both tahos so they those will be auctioned so we'll keep 205 and 206 and the two to holes are actually going to be auctioned off okay so those are the two that are leaving the fleet right okay along with uh 209 that's also going to be auctioned so you've got also included in your package was um a vehicle inventory which I appreciate and I'm hopeful that the the town manager will update the the inventory that we got last year um we have three tahos currently so you have uh your traffic your K9 Tahoe 29 which is out of order and 210 so you would have four in our Fleet right now we four okay and so the purchase of these two hybrids will replace 209 and 216 no they'll replace uh 2008 Chevy Tahoe 221 and 2016 Chevy Tahoe section the special purpose vehicle section section okay got it okay what numbers were those again 221 and 219 and 221 is a a k9 outfitted vehicle that one that one had to be outfitted uh for K9 cuz basically 216 also getting Au auctioned off is basically failed okay so Jim our Highway mechanic as talented as he is swapped out all the equipment and was able to make that work okay so my understanding is we have two we have one full K9 outfitted vehicle and we have one sort of K9 outfitted vehicle currently that's my understanding well we have uh 221 221 which replaced 216 that was the old one I the numbers are confusing okay so you have uh Offa Wagner with K9 Colby in 221 right now and that's staying no that that'll be replaced as soon as we that was a FY they ordered one they I misunder okay that this this is pending already order okay all right that's on a later slide yep no but it's not included in the inventory that's why it's a little confusing okay and then you also have um um the the um sro's vehicle that's also equ with the K9 cage okay but that isn't a full that's is that a full K9 vehicle or is that a yeah it is okay yeah so it just requires a special special back to it so instead of a back that can hold uh occupants it has to have special fans and AC units for for the K9 okay I was under the I was under the impression that that required additional um electric um uh alternators batteries those kinds of things oh that one's in a regular Ford utility okay yeah all right all right thank you I I this just kind of crossed my mind now um because I know we've had discussions in the past about the mile past years about the mileage and why that kind of 100,000 is Miles seems to work I was just wondering um I don't know what the correct me metric would be for where besides mileage but my understanding is mileage is a uh to the outside Observer a somewhat imperfect understanding of police and other vehicles in part because they're they're running more regardless right so is there anything do you track and uh or is it ever standard to track things I don't know if it' be engine run hours or something else or yeah I also have those and I've tracked them and they they range obviously our admin vehicles I mean just rough numbers here yeah our admin vehicles have an average of 600 uh engine hours on them and then our traffic car has 10,649 engine hours on it what I'm seeing here is that our engine hours usually in our patrol cars that are constantly running we at 2,300 2,600 2200 um a new one at 1380 you know so I guess when you break it down and I actually spoke with Jim about this is that one engine hour equals 30 Mi on the vehicle is that is the equation that mechanics kind of use you know I Lear a new thing how does that change with hybrids the hybrids are are still running just but they're not yeah they shut off and then you'll hear them so if you're running the Heat or the AC they'll kick on more kick on more yeah it'll shut down and then usually like 5 minutes you'll hear a kick back on charge and then slow back down yeah so imagine the engine hours would stop with that yeah yeah that could be the that could be the the skew and the number where I'm seeing 10,649 for a Tahoe a gas vehicle yeah and I'm seeing 2,300 2 2500 range for the hybrid vehicles y y it's not running on the combustion yeah cuz it's not running on so must shut off that engine hour yeah which it's usually not the engine that gives out yeah you don't have it's all the other stuff we don't have full EVS running on the Poli no we do not don't cuz that'll be when when those become available for heavy duty use that would be nice because then you get rid of all the maintenance basically we'd have probably have to put in a charging charging station somewhere yeah but there's grants for that in the long run we'll see so you don't think you can get an extra year out of the like it looks like Corona what sixy year rotation 205 we we're not going to get an extra year out of that which you know the the logical thing and and you said it earlier that to spend $100 as you know to not have the tools to do it is Jim our mechanic who's highly talented probably needs to attend a hybrid training to fix hybrid vehicles and be given the tools to fix the hybrid vehicle so because it entails the whole braking system so the braking system charges the batteries which then gives you power it's a little different than a gas vehicle with brakes and and such that would require special tools so what we saw with 205 is that when we were having um charging F system failures was the light that was coming on we have to bring it to the dealership you know there has to be some way and I'm I'm sure um Regular you know not dealerships probably encountering the same problem where they have to update their equipment to with the updated vehicles I would think makes sense to me I'm not a mechanic but in the next slide if we move on we show you some cost savings I like that right so our fuel savings from the hybrids our analysis of FY 24 to FY 25 we used July and August we saved about $749 for those two months which gives us an estimate saving of about 4500 approximate for the hybrids um by that so that's a two-month comparison so you know $750 it's with our obviously the gas prices I understand fluctuate but uh you know we definitely are saving savings saving money with with the hybrids that's for sure we're seeing it on the fuel end and then plus the rebates that we get through the green communities and we're also helping the earth when we say except for the batter need to go somewhere that's true we haven't encounted that yet fuel Savings of uh 749 and change uh in those two months is that Fleet or per vehicle fleet Fleet okay great next slide uh FY 27 I actually I have a follow-up question okay I'm trying to oh never mind I misread I read total fuel cost is total fuel savings and numbers weren't driving for me and I can see why now okay I'm bad at reading we did get a detailed breakout in fuel spending as well that was FY 27 um anticipate portable radios that were purchased in uh 2020 for 2,649 75 I got an estimate um just last month the estimate of $1,478 for 30 radios brings us to [Music] 44340 that's a 7 a span on the portable radios updated technology um and basically the lifespan of the equipment of the electronics also I have in there a 2027 for Interceptor with an estimated cost of 75,500 which 81,000 Mi for 4 uh 20 on it right now and the the engine hours are 200 uh 2,269 which I guess it if it does shut off that that's actually I I didn't think of that I could actually point that out Mr B that would replace um uh 23 which is a gas vehicle so we would get that uh we would get that grant for for it you have replacing 203 which right now is a 20 2014 uh vehicle and mileage that's a detective's vehicle so the mileage is lower it's not constantly being used it's it's only at 67,0 143 that's the regular replacement of the investigative Bureau on MAR Cruiser at that point in in 2027 it would be at the 13-year Mark so the radios made me think of um cameras you I didn't see camera replacement anywhere in the or 10 year plan yeah the body cameras yeah so right now there is some grants out there but it's for basically police departments that don't have them um right now they're they're working they're working good um they're a great great tool that we have out there and what's your lifespan I don't really know I don't know um the newest technology it would be so that would be generation one uh cameras so I imagine if I put a 7-year lifespan on electronics it would probably probably would be seven years hopefully maybe more the expensive expensive Endeavor um those cameras are are they supported by like a maintenance contract or something along those way yes yeah it's a yearly yearly contract for our software um that keeps so everything is downloaded um to a separate computer but is it for the hardware devices too or just the software the hardware devices we own okay but you could still buy a support contract or stuff on actual use so it just seems that somewhere in the 10e plan we need to right probably account for camera Replacements and then figure out if we pH that it'll be a grant yeah but whatever the funding source we should be tracking it yeah okay let's put it this way we're not going to go from a department that didn't have them that has them that goes back to not that's no absolutely absolutely we if you didn't have them You' get a grant again get right that's why you went to law school [Laughter] huh um on the uh the radios why do we have 30 um is that they are they issued to individual officers makes sense hygenically yeah okay FY 28 FY 28 we have two police Ford Interceptor hybrid explorers the estimated cost of 77,4 125 total in 155,50 which would replace uh 212 at that at this point 212 has 42,000 134 miles on it and it would replace 208 which is the patrol supervisors vehicle which has 46,9 44 um also making uh eligible for the hybrid uh Green community grant funding so obviously if Sergeant Chev run and is the other one just supposed to be at Patrol so the the Sergeant's car 208 gets used by the the sergeant on the ship right but the other one with the just plug in the generic thing okay okay yeah that's how low you are you just got a car good a car logo it's good clip bar so that's a standard yearly thing yes we're going to see that that theme here oh yeah uh 2029 to 2029 Ford police interceptor hybrids estimated cost each uh 80,00 160 uh total of 16,320 obviously both both the hybrids that would replace Patrol bual Mark Cruiser and the SRO Cruiser also looking at the future replacement of firearms which they would be at their 10year Mark uh we purchased those in uh 2019 with a 5 to 7e lifespan um 10year Mark estimated cost 600 to 650 a piece uh times 30 today would be 18,900 uh 18,000 to 19,000 for an estimate at this point uh 2029 the Firearms will have 10 they'll be 10 years old uh they'll either have gone through 5,000 or 10,000 rounds fired through them uh depending on the officer instructors fire rounds instructors they'll they'll be at the higher end with having 10,000 rounds being put down uh through them and the administration will be at the lower end at 5,000 to 6,000 also you have the daily wear and tear of the vehicle that exposed to the elements every day rain snow dirt and right now I I can't even come up with a best estimate for what handguns are going to cost in in 2029 why is that I'm just I I I don't mean that in a compatitive way I'm just curious what the limit Market that market really fluctuates oh okay the Firearms Market is is just a fluctuating Market that uh fluctuates more than gasoline I feel yeah I know recent years um for both guns and ammo have had some big swings through and post pandemic I didn't know if that was continuing or not I think proposal legislation also people want toand um so how many how many Firearms what's the quantity 30 30 okay same as the r okay so we're looking at up to $30,000 probably could be more we'll also get you also get a trade in value so we'll get a trade in value on these which will reduce the cost too usually when we turn the firearms in we they give us x amount per per one which which helps definitely helps what do they do with those CU those are special Police Issue aren't they yeah I honestly I don't know yeah they probably ship them to another state where you can purchase them okay that's comforting right kind of like our auction Vehicles yeah they go to elsewhere yeah right a commodity 2030 2030 uh two Ford police interceptor hybrid explorers estimated cost 82565 a total of 165 5,000 which includes upfitting uh regular replacement of the patrol Bureau which would be that would at that point it would be replacing the 2023 Ford police interceptor which is uh 218 in addition to the fleet of uh unmark vehicle for the investigative Bureau it would be a 2030 Ford hybrid at $71,000 90 why uh why do you anticipate that I mean what leads to the anticipation of another vehicle I assume an increase in the size of the uh it was on the 10 year higher in plan okay yeah for a second detective we don't have right now yeah so it's on a 10year hiring plan for a second detective just due to population increase or I guess if we see yeah I mean that obviously in in 2030 be reevaluated you know yeah I I'm just trying to get my I'm just trying to wrap my mind around how these decisions come to be um I I get there's a lot of variables coming in I'm was curious I can believe that we would need a second detective I was curious yeah why yeah or what what leads us to believe that if our crime rate goes down we we won't need one that would be great too mhm I would imagine it's population standard staff in by population and and type of town so as opposed to you know Urban as opposed to Suburban and you mural whatever I know this is very redundant we're at 2031 uh regular replacement of the P Patrol cruises um two at an estimated cost of 85,000 42 uh in 2031 and that would be the uh basically going through our same cycle of of replacing 2030 2032 the same again uh at this point we' be replacing the patrol K9 from uh 20125 and replacing the traffic officer 2025 which are hopefully the cruises we anticipate to get this year I think we have this might be on slides yeah oh a lot more the future yes the future yeah obviously the regular replacement of cars we it's the nature of the business that the cars are constantly running and uh replacement of bull Brew vests and portable radios as we go on and replacing with Firearms as such it's uh just keeping the equipment up to date as the as it as it times out the next slide I guess I already talked about it is the the update of our vehicle which the traffic car which you see up top there Tahoe is uh being replaced with with uh the hybrid 2025 it's been ordered um I'm being told that we probably won't see it until February and uh anticipate it its arrival and the Tahoe is the one that has that that 10,000 uh 10,000 engine I was it yeah yeah and so hopefully we get that sooner than later based on manufacturer next slide do you have a replacement for the pickup truck no the pickup truck right now only has 7,000 miles of so you're looking to get 12 years out of that hopefully so that that's not uh that's not used on a a daily basis for patrol um it's used for specialty specialty assignments and really hoping to keep the wear and tear off that okay and and get that get that lifespan out of a out of a pickup truck that you can um the replacement for the K9 Cruiser there was uh no Ford Expeditions to be ordered uh so that was speced out for an expedition um that was funded for $92,200 582 so that saved 10,1 19220 on that side and the upfitting cost uh 34,43 based on the the special equipment for the K9 Cruiser so we should we should see a savings there um of that $10,000 searched high and low for an expedition and just wasn't there so the Expedition for what what I encountered is is that the Expedition for the general public has a shifting gear in the middle and the Expedition for made for a police purpose has the uh shifter on the steering wheel so basically if your shifter is in the center console that eliminates your radio and all the equipment that we have in the center so we we couldn't buy a regular expedition to put put them in place so little savings there I guess good thing how's the new dog working on good good Kobe's good uh he's been deployed a couple times successfully tracking and so far so good stays healthy that's anything thing who's the officer who has uh Jack Wagner okay and you find that the decision to go with a tracking dog versus a multi-purpose dog you know there was a kind of a decision around around yeah so the the kind of dog and the the the mission is that is that proving to be aligned with the demand absolutely uh he does tracking and narcotics he's been successful with narcotics also in uh various drug rides and happy to say that uh last week he just got recertified by the state um passed all his tests um just like anything he is to continue in professional development just as an officer does and uh yeah he did very well and he so happy to announce that good that kind of dog has got one hell of a sniffer on it so Tak can track it was uh next slide I have an update on our Milo system which um if everybody didn't see the our state reps um presented us with a check for 30 th $30,000 that was year ear marked along with our state senator and we've received a total cost of 31,700 on it and then it'll be able to to get put in place that was a big win hey can't can't thank our our state representatives and our state senator enough for for uh getting us that that's it that's it thank you need to go to parking school yeah the parking is a little aome doesn't that look nice though it's nice when you the people who give tickets you could park like that so I one of the things I see that's not on there and I'm assuming it's because well I don't know why I obviously all the vehicles are outfitted with computers but I don't see any computer components on there that would be the upfitting so and that's good for the whole life the five years of the car the the upfitting of the vehicle right now our our computers that we just purchased the tough books are all fairly fairly new okay and so when we put a put it in a new car that that computer will still be able to use okay years but even then I mean again even tough books you got to believe have a lifespan and find it hard to believe it's more than 10 years yeah but I think we're buying them as we go as you know so it's the $20,000 threshold issue I think some of this is captured in Department budget that might be okay it would not been good to know that I mean yeah yeah you're right well not good for us to know if it is happening under there then fine then we don't need to know but it just it seemed like the only Omission yep and then Chris Ruth will have something in there about getting you more space built up I think he he uh was already started working on that um I think it was last year he started working on a plan um if you ever been in the police department we have a an unfinished area upstairs that uh basically Al is 34 of the way uh to be in US usable space but in the original um building of it it was it was stopped right was that approved last year or no it was they they've been trying to get it outfitted for document storage I believe for years and years but now they need it for real people which is one of the good reasons why we didn't go for document storage yeah yeah so that would be the the other one so all two you know when you go up so the there's that first room and then when you go go through that's where the document storage is which would be above um the garage okay so you have almost two square rooms off there the documents are in in that room okay gotcha so it's a separate room okay so building that out as office space though is in this year's facilities plan or I don't know if he has it in this year's uh Capital plan uh we have spoken about it um definitely on his mind okay but it's in it we'll see that one we need we those facilities yeah okay hopefully can you speak to that just you know in in the event that that does come up because I think you know most of us have heard it from from Chief gaml okay Mr Bowen's new to the committee but can you kind of talk through the the the space issue that that you guys have and you know the because we we've kind of heard about you know where officers are going to work on paperwork work and that kind of thing and just the space crunch in that in that building so right now our traffic officer um two sro's and detective share a space that is probably smaller than this room for for their work the sergeants utilize what we used to have as uh our meeting room which was uh I think they called it on the original plan the library or I don't remember off the chief's office so now we've moved that into having the the sergeants in there then you have the the chief's office and then you have the outside where the officer Patrol officers will do their reports when we have 20 officers compared to I think when the the station was built it was 10 or 12 officers yeah maybe a little more but yeah certainly way under 20 way under 20 they just didn't account for that space or they did and just chose to unfinish uh the room upstairs the room upstairs like I said that you know Chris would probably talk more about this but I feel like it's three4 of the way there um needs a floor needs a drop ceiling I believe uh he said that the sprinkler system uh needed to be turned around cuz the sprinklers are faced up so they need to face down some do yeah I guess well it was for no drop ceiling droping drop ceing I guess I don't know why it does sound I guess we have to go to the original plans to find out why they did that but uh you know I think it wouldn't be that bad to get it started with cubicles I don't obviously the price of building materials have gone up and but it's needed needed cubicle space that would enable us to move the detective the 2 s and the traffic officer to the upstairs and we could then utilize that office for the sergeants and then we could bring our library back which would be our meeting space which right now we use uh the training room so interviews that we conduct or meetings that we conduct now we use uh the training area so we almost we lost the room to to accomplish accomodate uh the more offices and and working space and it's long removed since it when it's been built but I believe that like many things we left certain spaces that could have been built out undone for cost reasons because we didn't have the staff and we didn't know that we would ever get to the staff but now we here we are like what how old is the building now like 20 years old is so now we're here so 20 years to have to build out the last part make sense to me m indeed all right anything else Lieutenant no uh thank you I thank you definely fixed out those things that Mr Alonzo had brought to my attention and and uh I'll research a few things and I brings up a a point on uh Mr Bowen if you guys want to cut me off that's fine but two I just noticed 203 which is a gas vehicle has 2541 hours on it well I only know from my own experience I've got a Prius that I right often sit idling in while my wife's in shopping so I I know how it shuts on and shuts off so when that vehicle does shut off it does shut off the engine out yeah yeah yeah which is good again learn something new it's great when it comes to fuel I think the the challenge with the modern vehicles in New England is it's not the engine that quits first it's all the other stuff around the engine you know like it's it's in the case of the Prius it's the Hybrid battery yeah well the battery is the big one and then of course with engine with with gasoline engines and or diesel engines you have the transmission where if you have a full EV you don't have that issue yeah yeah when when I asked about the engine hours part of me was just thinking of other metrics besides mileage with which to process vehicle wear and tear yeah um uh I mean the department clearly has a very good handle on understanding pretty dang well about how long a vehicle lasts under your use but so this was purely just trying to see how that kind of falls out in various ways inevitably it's going to be a different metric you're absolutely right it's going to be different from to hybrids and it's going to be different when they finally do get to fully great point that was a great Point not to mention just the different use you know a patrol vehicle those are hard miles as opposed to a Chief's vehicle or an indr of vehicle you know which we get longer get longer years um okay I do think though that if you can start to get another 20% out of your cars you know longer lifespan um you know significant savings to be had for that right right you're most you're all about cars the numbers that I was seeing on the average where you Patrol vehicle when you have them in that Patrol use is 22,000 to 25,000 m a year is what we're seeing and then obviously when we take them off the line and put them more as a spare car then we can uh start start reducing that yeah um yeah absolutely I mean any anything is you know I'm all for saving money just like the the nice part so um part of my conversation um with the DPW director this morning was about vehicle maintenance and records and that kind of thing which the members of the committee know this is a refrain that's been going on for years and we're trying to get some line of sight into that from from our perspective um how does that process work with you and the Frontline officers like if a if a vehicle is due for an oil change or an air filter or something along with those lines how does that how does number one how were you guys informed and how is the vehicle brought out of service to to be taken care of so we have a officer Russell assigned to our Cruiser maintenance and any any maintenance has comes up obviously the vehicle tells you either you reach your 5,000 or the check engine uh check wheel light comes on and we make an appointment with with Jim and then Jim performs all that that maintenance on that he also does the tires uh you know regular rotation he just let me say again he does an excellent job and is very talented mechanic um he's nothing but nothing but uh great stuff to work work with them and any problems that arise he's more than willing you know we always get a the other day we had nail on the tire you know jum bring it right down you know swap that tire out you know stuff like that so yeah I I think the reason why our vehicles probably are in such good shape is is because of the the maintenance that we do perform on you know the regularly schedule maintenance instead of letting the oil changes go over instead of not changing that air filter which you know some some people do but but you know we we have we have that maintenance and I did pull that record from Nappa I think we're at $22,900 right now for for uh for costs you know which isn't too bad but we do have to order a snow tires um so snow tires are going to be obviously coming down the line this this month you know you order new snow tires every year is that how that how that so the snow tires get run out and then the ones that didn't have much wear Tire tear on them um won't get replaced I got two years out of my snow tires but they'll have to be replaced this year so obviously again uh the reoccurring theme administrative Vehicles yeah yeah obviously don't get that wear and tear you can get a longer life out of them so we could get two years out of those tires you know but on the patrol Vehicles no that's usually and you're running snow tires on all vehicles there's no allseason radial going on uh I think there there uh so Jim evaluates obviously the price cost for that year and obv what they cost and what we can get that was we encountered that actually was either last year or two years ago where you couldn't get certain tires could have been blamed by Co or or not and we had to go with different tires that have to be speed rated for police cruisers so you have to get the the specific speed rating tire for the cruiser so that if if anything happens you know the C the Cruiser in the tire perform at a at a higher level MH okay anything else no well yeah I guess the um training for the hybrid vehicles will let's try to get that in the discussion I don't know if that's yeah I mean operational or capital I don't know what cost I don't think it's Capital it probably be um more budgetary I think I don't think it would exceed the the amount I don't know to send them you know I imagine it must be a certain hybrid school that they send them mechanics to for you know development of that and now maybe the tools that are required to fix those Vehicles could yeah could meet that threshold um obviously you know Bill would probably know more about that but I think it would be I think it would be valuable to have that done you know if we could save money by not having to send him to a dealership and having Jim work on him in-house I mean why wouldn't you right makes sense to me uh I feel bad that I I don't know I I only know Jim by the name Jim and by the Stellar reputation that has come through this committee over the past few years in discussion I I don't you could put two people in front of me and I wouldn't be able to tell you who was Jim to save my life I've met him uh is he a guy who's near retirement no no okay cool I mean really cuz I we're speaking very highly of someone and I'm just sitting here thinking this is amazing and if we're planning on that level of service and guy might be retiring in 3 five years I mean life can happen to anyone anyway but I think when you have a person that can go from fixing a weed whacker to fixing an international uh Mac Truck I think they're invaluable tool M yeah not a an invaluable asset utility infielders are very valuable don't let his reputation get out to theup town yeah we're not going to post this as it turns out also be the goto guy when paper gets jammed in the printer right okay any thank you very thank you lieutenant great appreciate your time thank you for good presentation me lieuten you the Jimmy fund walk over the weekend no I was not there oh somebody from the lunenberg Department was there Chief okay yeah that's who was there thank you very much Lieutenant if you have any additional information you want to send just send it to all of us via email and and you know if you have something that you want me to distribute specifically or discuss something it to me directly yeah um definitely going to look into the body camera issue and and the tough books obviously and perfect all right good thank you very much thank you greatly appreciate you everybody have a good evening we will stay safe out there okay um future meetings so the the current plan had it for tonight clearly that's going to need to get rescheduled um the plan right now is for October 21st for schools October October 23rd for facilities and November 4th for DPW and fire um so I just want to apprise everybody of that and then we should theoretically knock on wood assuming we can get it into one of those slots um be through the presentation phase by the 4th of November um what became apparent on Monday night for four of us rob you were not on the other committee that we all serve on yep is that um November is going to be a tough month for us to schedule uh just due to personal travel commitments that many of us have y um so what I will likely do is circulate an email for availability just so rather than us all looking at calendars and say I can do this date or that date let's just circulate available dates in November and early December and then at our next meeting I will try to nail down what I think will be just for the prioritization list portion likely two meetings following that November fourth meeting so there'll be a meeting to review everything um ideally have an initial draft of everybody's prioritization and then a a a meeting to basically stamp it and send it to the town manager um my expectation was was that we would be done that before Thanksgiving but given I'm Gone the second week of November um Chris you're gone the third week of November the fourth week is Thanksgiving and then we're in December so we're going to have to maybe have a meeting without a full panel we'll just have to figure it out so um but I I would like to land this at least this portion of the discussion before Thanksgiving if all possible acknowledging that we're way be way behind where I intended to be a couple of months ago but life happens is what it is um we will also at our next meeting um I'll put on the agenda to discuss the um Financial manual um and my hope is is that we will get the uh content sharing uh situation figured out um and I also my intention is between now and then to have an offline conversation with Carter um specifically about his intentions moving into January and February and capital plan and how that relates to um the financing portion of this which um I don't have a line of sight of at all at this point so anything else for future meetings so there seems to be a backlog of Prior years um capital projects and the question that's floating around in my mind is if there's such a backlog does that influence how we might want to prioritize this year's projects because just continuing to put a backlog on it and then additionally there may be some projects that are no longer um able to be done with the within the allocated budget so um seems like we might want to square that somehow in the capital planning process here we don't typically talk about that committee we never even get we've historically never got reports on progress so so the town manager does brief the select board on capital projects and I I know that Heather did and I think the evidence you know Carter has presented at least one of those I believe recently um we could certainly invite him to our next meeting to update us and I think that that's fair game for conversation in terms of should should that be considered in terms of how we approach there's two issues there's two separate issues so the ones that we've approved and we don't have enough money to complete or to go out because they came in higher those should be resubmitted for supplemental allocations by the Departments whether it's facilities or schools or whoever is doing it if the department is as far as your first part of your question about you know should we hold off I mean that's a separate issue and certainly we should have a discussion about it yeah I I I can tell you from the the school perspective um uh we got an update uh I want to say at our mid September meeting on our capital projects um there are both issues going on right now there are there are there are funding issues and then there are other just projects that are taking a long time um and and partially because of what should have been been foreen in my opinion but were unforeseen circumstances so for example um on the security doors and and also the the um the alarm system in Turkey Hill there wasn't a plan for certifying and remediating asbestos as part of those projects um so that has slowed progress on getting those projects you know even out to bid because there was a additional requirement on the front end before the bid could even go out um that that the school department is is just catching up on the other thing is I don't know if you're all aware but um our facilities director in the schools has resigned um and so we are going to be seeking in fact we have already posted for a new facilities director um the upside of that is uh Dr Gilman our uh finance and HR Director has kind of Taken charge of a lot of these projects and uh seems to have a really good handle on on all of it and so there there is a a continuity uh aspect there that uh I'm hopeful we can uh take advantage of but one would assume she's getting pretty busy though she definitely is yep yep absolutely so that's a a critical higher that we need to make post taste so so how how do you think the backlog will affect our prioritization of this year's project so given one where you just going to buy a piece of equipment versus you know putting project number 13 on the facilities list with 12 above it we may say why are we doing this why are we allocating money this year for something that's not going to really get done for three years out yeah this execution aspect of the projects that we should be factoring into our decision in my opinion yeah okay Chris I'm I'm glad you bring that up because I was having that same thought I when I was at Turkey Hill probably a couple weeks ago I did I did ask principal Leon about the um uh about the security doors because I was curious and I I mean I I learned what Mr beardmore just shared with us but um I'm glad you bring it up because it got me that I was having the same thought of that's an important project um it does need to be done right I feel bad that we put money into it that's kind of is money in a holding patter it's not money it's not money working it it's money waiting and I mean you don't know what you don't know either but and there's no doubt I mean it's frustrating you know I mean I when I first joined the finance committee I would talk about like if somebody could track the life span of a free cash dollar right from when it first came in the door in property tax to when it actually got spent after it was finally allocated through capital and then you know like in some cases I think that those dollars exist on our balance sheets for four or five years you know and it's it's frustrating you you want you want that you want that money to be to be used as soon as possible because it's more valuable earlier than later right well we're not I mean we're just not doing projects efficiently we're not doing them well yeah and it doesn't help I mean again you know the the town manager interm Town manager brought up last night about a process in the tax taking the property tax taking uh process that wasn't in our policy that he brought brought forward to say you need this in a policy I'm like thank you for bringing that up so when somebody says and I'm just using this as an example because we have other ones too but how can how can the process not include how old is this building does it have a speci in the initial in the initial you know conception of the project that should be thought about certainly not after the money is allocated I've often wondered why we don't have of estimate associated with the project well I think a lot of times it's just wild ass guesses so this is a this is a topic that actually came up in the the um the budget committee meeting a week or two ago was you know because we brought this up at this table multiple times over the last couple of years which is you know how good is an estimate and the problem is is that free work is not Dependable work and and the example that I gave was the air conditioner project at the primary school where we never paid for engineering or estimates for any of those mini splits that we just finished installation on so every estimate that we went and got was basically graus work that was done by a professional company that does this you know and was requested by our facilities director but then when we Chang the plan six times between when it's offici officially requested and when we finally approve the money and the the contractor knows that we still have to go through the acquisition process and they're more likely than more unlikely to to you know they're probably not going to get the deal um we you know there are a lot of estimates out there that just are not are not bankable you know and and I don't know how to solve that problem but it's a real problem I agree mhm and when we and sometimes when we when we go to when we know that we need to spend money to get a good estimate that also causes us to Kick the Can right right you know like we because because we have to go and spend $50,000 or $100,000 or more on a well different Hur different steps in the process have different hurdles there's certainly there's certainly that aspect of it but the fact that there's no consistent process about getting estimates and and a checklist and that comes down to the fact that everybody's so rushed that they don't write anything down and I always come back to my favorite Business book title ever which is if you don't our time to do it right when will you have time to do it over it's like do it right and like after projects are done it would be good to have a what did we learn what went right with this what didn't go right so the next time we do it it's better that never happens because everybody's racing to the next thing yeah and you know I don't think it's Unique to our town I it's even unique to municipalities I see that in my own businesses and customers I deal with but it's so frustrating it's like some of these things are so avoidable do you doing a mistake once is is okay but when you do the same mistake again like Y what did you learn I'm going through the exact same thing in my professional life right now that we just finished a product launch and my company does you know not a big project launch every year so when you're doing it on a cycle of you know one every year and a half to two years people turn over you know procedures aren't updated those kinds of things and so when you go to do it you run into all kind of disruption you and we we just finished one we're like we really got to write all this day you know and and um and we we are in fact doing it but it's um it's a it's a pervasive problem you know so anyway did you have facilities director I know he was going through a big project of documenting all the projects was that all documented and handed off to the soon to be newest new facility uh so I don't the the level of documentation I don't know we did receive a report on that um but I don't know the level of backup documentation it's a good question and I'll ask and report back I I just don't know but yeah it's a very very good question okay uh any public comment that was quite a bit of public comment in and of itself but okay hearing none is there a motion to adjourn sove second all right all those in favor I iOS no we are adjourned thank you everybody thank you you