all right we're going to give it a few just going to give it you that 10 recording in um do you want us to do the pledge before you open the meeting yes please so so if you wish to do the pledge go ahead and leave us i' stand up and uh pledge flag aliance to the flag of United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liberty and justice for all [Music] thank [Music] you I'm am amazed at my chair's ability to turn 180 degre in that time that just made that sit down almost much more eventful uh good evening everybody and welcome to our Monday May 13th 2024 meeting of the lunenberg planning board we are here at beautiful Town Hall we just heard the bells ringing overhead on time and and uh if you wish to join us tonight you can do so either on the computer you may be doing that now if you wish to uh talk to us you would need the you would either need to come to town hall and join us or use the zoom link that is available on the agenda on the town website um this meeting is being recorded and so anyone who speaks will also be recorded I believe that is everything we are required to say so thank you everyone uh we have more people here than usual tonight that's exciting and um I will open with if there's any public comment [Applause] hi my name is m I live at 139 Cove Road and when they come up to speak they'll say their address um but uh we are from the school we're we're students and we're in a civics class and um we are doing a project about sidewalks and we wanted to talk about that today so we have a statement we'd just like to say and then we have some um data for you guys if you're willing to take that from us so um so we definitely like to hear your statement can we we can take data from them and everything correct we wonderful papers yeah yeah well there sometimes rules about how things get shared and I don't but this isn't a hearing or anything please go in in document they need to submit for for the record but yeah yeah okay thank you um so we come today as students of lunberg high school to address an issue that affects the well-being of our community the lack of pedestrian friendly infrastructure particularly sidewalks in our town as residents of lunenberg we asked the planning board to prioritize the implementation of sidewalks with specific emphasis towards the west side of Massachusetts Avenue the sidewalks in town and overall infrastructure do not suff suffice the people of lindenberg to walk and be engaged with the town itself it creates a cautionary scenario for pedestrians and drivers uh to have uh to navigate alongside each other discouraging pedestrians from being active outside and then speak hi uh Ella Brandon uh stay address 125 robow Road um with the potential implementation of sidewalks more people will have the opportunity to enjoy outdoors and have greater sense of environment they will live within pedestrian friendly infrastructure can also bring in more eager home buyers who will appreciate the amenity of a sidewalk hi my name is Conor Arsenal I live at 47 John Street uh we specifically advocate for the Contin continuing of the sidewalk on Massachusetts Avenue because it will offer the connection between residential zones with zones of business lunenberg mainly consists of residential residential zones and long commutes but adding this sidewalk would be a great start to slowly improve the connection of different places in town we acknowledge that this task is a Le is of lesser significance to the financial Endeavors of the school/ toown but we come to you today to increase awareness of many residents concerns regarding the town as a whole we thank you for your time with us so we are aware that financially this might not make sense right now as a project but we did collect a bunch of data that we want to present um and sort of just you know create an awareness we would be absolutely happy to receive it um if you are if you want to speak to it now you're very much welcome to if you would rather uh if if you would like to come to us in the future with a a presentation is viewable we could absolutely put that on a future agenda as well if that was amenable to what you're looking for I I leave that up to you um do we I guess we can we can give these two now um it might it might be our benefit to get on the agenda in the future okay great um so is it all right please okay sorry about this can I step up here yes you just give them to M Aubrey and think we hand down that way but yeah yeah thank you thank [Applause] you thank you yes thank you thank you very much thank you before you please before you step away um I first I want to thank you for being here um I also 100% want to compliment the fact that your understanding of the way we run the meeting a and things as simple as coming up sharing your name as address uh name and address is topnotch most people don't know that coming before boards we very much appreciate it I'm looking forward to going through this if you want to come before us and get on the agenda and have uh a formal presentation be absolutely open to that um in addition what I want to encourage you to uh in I think I'm betting through school you've at some point filled out a survey for the master plan uh yeah we conducted a survey and we had about 104 results of students responding as to where they um stand that with sidewalk yeah where they think it's most valuable to work on wonderful and I'll tell you that thing so you're not the first people who I've heard share this pretty much exact thought yeah sure and I think there's a good reason for that myself um our master plan we're in the middle of our Master planning process and the master plan is a document that we hire Consultants to write but they don't write it in a vac they work with a steering committee um that's put together by the planning board and they have public info Gathering they send out surveys they have public info sessions and we do have one coming up a little later in the month do you know the date of that Mr I know we've got our regular meeting this Wednesday uh and I'm looking up the public meeting right now okay thank you um but there will be more info session both where data is shared out on that process as well as they solicit input from members of the community um I don't know if you're voting age yet if you are then you you can certainly be there and you'll be able to get your opinion heard through your vote later as well but even if you're not a voting age um that is a great place to go and your input would absolutely be welcome as members of this community because things like future sidewalk placement the master plan kind of guides supposed to be every 10 years and practice it's every 15 to 20 is when most communities do them uh but that kind of guides the thought process going forward for planning in a town so I would encourage you if this is a passion of yours to look at that as well and uh get your thoughts in that way Mr chairman I'd suggest that at a minimum that we can afford a copy of this material to the master plan committee so they would have this information directly probably probably through Mr wils yeah certainly I can submit it um the meeting is May 30th uh between 6:00 and 8 at uh Smoke Stack roers is yes yes um and that meeting is going to have some activities to kind of solicit feedback in specific ways from the community about how to excuse me about what they want to see for the future of lunenberg and if this is a passion of yours or the future of the town and general is a passion of yours um your voice would absolutely be welcome there that's excellent thank you great thank you so much for joining us tonight thank you thank you thank you so the 15th is the next is that the regular schedule yes it's a steering committee meeting and the 30th is the we'll be get together so good evening just John PFA mccardy engineering I just wanted to briefly touch upon a couple of items that aren't on the agenda just to give the board a little bit of a update uh regarding 255 Sunny Hill so just so you're aware you know we're still working through concom on their peer review so we'll be in front of you guys again after we resolve any items that they find and then 171 Arbor Street I believe was on your agenda sometime back we are actively pursuing our zba filings once that's addressed we'll be back in front of the board so just kind of wanted to put it on your your radar that it didn't go dormant and uh just provide you with a little bit of an update oh very much appreciated thank you thank [Applause] you there's a lot of public comment that makes me happy as a clam any other public comment before we go on to agenda items seeing none and just want to make sure that we don't have anyone one I know you're on top of it but I can't see it so I feel better asking we have no one in the waiting room or anything correct correct wonderful all right there so next on our agenda is an anr for 9:32 flath Hill Road am I looking at the wrong agenda I was looking at the wrong thing oh do we have I guess no one is here here for the anr do we still look at it if no one okay that's what I thought all right great cuz you have a deadline to act on it yes and it looks like all the Dune is a carbing off a small triangular parcel a adding it to the new lot one yep I'm just calling up I'm going to call up those files on my computer now as well in our folders that is the just says a anr for the folder um it's always nice when there someone to kind of give a quick summary but our applicants are Robert in Kelly Carrera 932 flood Hill Road um we do have the Board of Health sign off that they checked in with them was that a question or no sorry that that was a statement that was a a very awkwardly phrased statement clearly I are you looking for input uh please yes I I'm looking at it so I'm a little distracted but yes no so I I did look at the plan earlier um if you'll notice the the back of the property has katakuna MOG Brook that has a a 200t reparan Zone uh will set back from the the bank of the the the river um and it looked like the proposed Barn is well within that so it it's got nothing to do with the anr but it's not uncommon for me to make comments right uh typically that may or may not be um other other groups in town may or may not have issue with it um but the anr like like like like was stated earlier I think it looks just like a little bit of a extra um piece of land I'm not quite sure what the conformance issue was is there any input as far as what the my guess is the conformance is the setback for the bar proposed Barn the side property line 37 ft the 37 is with the anr without the anr it was probably somewhere in a of half that okay so the sidey yard set back probably now my so I remember looking at this now um my question with it would be um SEC so I see that they're not changing the property line at flath Hill Road road so the frontage for that and other Lots would remain the same I see they are I mean obviously since they're adding to this parcel they're take they're taking land from another parcel mhm and do we know I didn't see anything about the land they were taking it from and if I don't think from looking at it it would cause any issues do we need verification of like should we be getting info about I felt like we're supposed to be getting info about both pieces not just the property they should have put the Remain the acreage of the remaining Pars in there they didn't um but I think it's appro for endorsement if they are in fact creating an issue then they're making themselves a non-buildable lot if they actually go through the transfer cating anr endo they AR doesn't actually do that but when they actually go through the transfer that's when they create the issue with themselves mhm and I was hoping I was assuming they would be here cuz I wanted to ask them about this I'm not sure why they're not um H but turning that I'm just looking at the lot lines and everything at what I think what I guess are the lot lines on this plot line on this map um I mean if they turn the if they turn the other into a non-buildable lot this kind of I think we're in the position that's just their it says that's their issue to start with correct and it doesn't change whether or not is not changing anything that we can consider in an anr regardless no okay I just wanted that was my reading on looking at it initially um but I just wanted to make sure understood that correctly all right other thoughts questions and everything I was just going through when I initially read I had that kind of question about that triangle that was being added no from the anr perspective it all looks uh in order mhm so just to follow on your comment since we did get border of Health comment back saying that they had no no no issues yeah so had we not gotten Board of Health comment this could potentially uh impact their septic system on the adjacent lot I can't even get the gis to load up yet I got load up the adjacent lot is 76 acres is that that's not even okay so if if that's an existing non-conforming buildable lot and they take more off of it it makes it non-buildable it completely makes it non-buildable because exact existing like it is it potenti be buildable right existing non-conforming it depends on how the ownership has changed over the years and has if it's been divided before not there's and I don't think that lot has Frontage it doesn't yeah so and again these are for for the edification of those watching at home for those in the room who may not be as familiar with anrs uh an anr is an approval not required uh the which is funny that we then have to we approve it we endorse it but welcome to Massachusetts law um the well there are very specific criteria we can look at for effectively redrawing lot lines with an anr um and those have to do with really almost entirely Frontage um and you'll hear us talk about things that aren't directly related to whether or not we can endorse the anr and we typically do that um with the applicant here as well our vote won't be based on those things because we can't consider them however anrs are one of those things that have a long history in the town in the state of people thinking they know what they're doing they redraw the lot lines and then they've actually created a problem for themselves in the future so we try to think out loud and pose these thoughts not in a way that will officially that will influence our vote in the end but there have been times even in my time on the board that we've talked about it and even an engineer has been in front of us and been like H oh yeah let let's get back let's uh let's pull this and maybe re look at it again in a few weeks um because you don't want to make things worse so that's why you'll hear us discussing things that won't necessarily input our final vote input into our final vote um looking for any other questions or comments or a motion at this point um this is good good the motion would be to endorse correct yes but I think Matt do you have more thoughts before anyone makes a motion or I want to cut it short I'm looking here there's a I'm pretty sure there's a private there's a private Road off of that corner there so do we have do we have any confirmation that there isn't a building on that that lot the assessor's office um on the adjacent lot actually it again just just as you repeat earlier yeah so I guess my thought would be we've had a lot of a lot of discussion here it would be my hopes that the applicant um if this anr is approved or is not approved is cuz that's not required by definition if the anr is endorsed that they would still hopefully come back and see this here the discussion we've had and hopefully everything we've talked about is no news at all to them and they watch it and go okay whatever but it's also here as well and maybe we've brought up something cuz just because we endorse it doesn't mean they have to go through with it they could not file all right so again looking for either more comments or a motion motion to endorse anr for 932 flath Hill Road second moved and seconded all in favor before you vote I'll just note that you look at the um assessor record it shows on the adjacent property that that they're taking that small seriv from no no structure on there okay cuz had no building value assessed to it um One Things board could do is he could endorse it and just suggest that the we notify the um applicant that they may want to look into issue of alteration of their rights to use the property by doing this anr um if you want us to do that we can email them and let them know that I would do we we don't need a do we need a vote for that no but I if you you can just let us know if you want us to do that I think assume if we do endorse would we like them to just let the applicant know about this discussion we've had here yeah and that concern right I have another comment the the the actual property being subdivided is not 932 correct correct so can actually the anr should be endorsement of 932 9942 can can they actually be can 932 actually be the applicant who was the applicant itself the owner of 932 uh I'd have [Applause] to actually that's a very good point because looking at yeah the applicant is the O applicant owner same um that's not the case Roberto and Kelly Carrera do they own both Lots um unless they have a contract to buy yeah well do we have any record of that no I mean not in here we have their application in our in our in our info we have their application and the site plan so we can refuse well it's already been accepted by the town clerk is that yeah and and and that's that's when the 21 days starts correct and we can't refuse it from the planning board for inaccurate I've never had this come up before but I would think so now because the plan itself meets requirements um however what we could also do is notify the applicant that before we release the anr we want they signed verification from the owner of the property that they're in agreement with this yeah because you see where I'm going this vacant piece of prop kind weird that you could otherwise just use an anr to take someone's land which isn't correct you can't but um whenever I I would get these in the past I'd always require that they give me a signature from the owner of property in indicating they they wereare of it and that they not they agree with it uh for this very reason my guess they must have contract to buy but they don't give us that information anywhere well that should now I mean at what point we is this just an incomplete application and we can't and we we can I'm not I am not looking to screw people over but can we re uh refuse to endorse based on the fact that we don't act we haven't actually been given all the info needed to even know this can happen let me think through this out loud please since the doesn't if the board doesn't endorse it their process would be to after 21 days to go to the town clerk get a certification that there's been no action taken and then take that and go through the register in new court okay alternatively the board and the board could therefore tonight instead of endorsed it defer this to the next meeting for the purpose of obtaining from the applicant written authorization from the owner of the property so that might be the actually better course but by then because if you don't endorse it what's the worst case scenario they get certification from town clerk who probably shouldn't have taken the application in the first place yeah okay there we go I like that so I I'm actually leaning towards that approach and then they would get them to be here at the June 10th meeting with now by the June 10th meeting they'll have hit their 21 days right and if they want to go through the whole legal process of getting the certification from town clerk and all that more power to them at least the plan board would then be on record as saying we didn't have a application signed by the owner of the property or any documentation indicating that the applicant was a authorized agent of the owner of the property and then they go back to so we do that they go back to the count town clerk there's is there some process in there by which the town clerk can then verify like will verify what's going on or no like I've never had an anr come before me no for only been here five years but like that yeah four years I've had in 20 years I've had people submit applications where they had a contract to buy and I would say hey it's not signed by the this property owner we have no acknowledge and they come back they go back and get something from them or an email from them something like that M um so I would be inclined at this point in time given the fact that you don't if you're Mee in two weeks w't be an issue but even if it was an issue the worst case scenario is they can they get the um certification from town clerk and then record it in the meantime we notify them hey we need verific ation from the property owner and we have that fine if the board chose to oh go ahead or the board could say go through the motion condition upon receiving a verification from the applicant of authorization from the jointed property owner the uh sorry the plans are dated May 30th 2023 that's not common I hate to say it but that's not un common okay so you're saying we could either effective if we wanted to go that route if the board wanted to say we don't have the info because I'm not going to presume board members votes but I have a guess if we wanted to go that way we could either move to endorse contingent upon receiving authorized endorsement can uh signatures not to be affixed until we receive verification of authorization by the subject property owner or we could move to not endorse not endorse all right so I hear two options um there's already a motion in a second have yes there is oh how do we scrap a motion that's currently withdraw your motion then okay I withdraw my motion Bangarang okay um which would people rather do uh if we're leaning that direction which I think I get the impression people are uh would we rather not endorse or or endorse with signatures contingent upon I'd rather not endorse yeah I think from a you know town government standpoint you know come to us with your information in line subm and I would phrase motions we're not endorsing at this time y you're not necessarily rejecting it but not endorsing this time because you need additional information a verification of the subject property owner so it would be refu it would be move uh a motion to not endorse at this time at this time the anr for 932 flath Hill Road due to the fact that it is divine property of 942 flath road which is owned by someone other than the signed applicant so moved Che good moved and seconded all in favor I I I all right there we go these are nor really simple well y'all are here for some exciting times tonight congratulations so John if you ever get a r be sure it's signed by both [Laughter] parties all right so that would be our an anr next up we uh have a uh presentation from the BSC group on conceptual plans for 925 Mev are they online maybe yes okay I see Jeff great hi good evening can everyone hear me yes we can great uh I'm Jeff bag I'm a senior planner at the BC group thanks for having me uh I'm here with Amanda gregar with uh Mass development and we're here to uh show and talk about U the property at 925 Massachusetts AV um BC group is um working with a grant from Mass development under their real estate technical assistance program um to help the town explore reuse of the property and as I'm sure you are probably aware it's a former gas station um it was acquired by the town in 2020 and it's just outside the the Town Center area next to the post office and it uh it's been vacant since the '90s so it's a long-standing property that the town has shown a lot of interest in May I pause you for one second absolutely okay I just want to make sure we're talking about the old rundown gas station just outside of downtown that had the environmental work done I about over here yep like let's make sure we're all on the same page cuz I hate that moment where I'm sitting up here and I realize halfway oh that's what we're talking about cool thank you so much no I think that's great and I did submit a letter to the planning board dated May 9th so hopefully you have that in your packet and have seen that and at some point if it's possible I will share my screen right now I don't have the ability to share screen I don't need it immediately but if that is an option that'd be great I see auy working on it okay perfect so through Mass through the through the funding with mass development you know BC group is charged with doing a baseline assessment of some Redevelopment options for the site and as the chairperson said there are some soil contamination issues um that have been um subject of funding from the town and a project that is currently underway through another consulting firm called the beta group and so my understanding is that they're working closely with the town on on that element which I'll talk I'll talk about that in a minute we are you know observing that the property is also small in size um but it is located in the Village Center District and uh we are looking at the zoning ordinance and you know the requirements that the town has for for this property we have had one meeting um with Town officials and included a member of the architectural preservation District uh the chair of the planning board was present and we had some Town officials including the town manager the DPW director the building inspector and conservation agent and back in March BC group along with mass development did a site visit to the property through this project it's it's uh has a deadline on June 30th so we're we're nearing the end and we wanted to incorporate you know a presentation and some feedback from the planning board we'll have a final report that'll be provided to the town which will outline the property characteristics the zoning requirements there'll be a market analysis and a summary of the potential reuse options and along with that we will be drafting a request for proposals something that the town can use in the future to decide whether to sell the property or or release the property to a private developer for for some kind of reuse uh in a minute I'll share two two preliminary options that we're exploring and we're interested in getting the planning board's feedback on things like the uses uh parking Landscaping General compatibility with the Village Center and as we present the two options we do think it's important important that the town consider consider both one one is a option to reuse the existing building and the other is a situation where the building would be demolished and a new building would be constructed and because we don't currently have an assessment of the existing building we don't know if it's suitable for reuse at this point that is going to be one of the action steps that the town will need to take after this project is done um and then as I get ready to share my screen you we understand that the feedback is is uh non-binding but it is an opportunity to to get your input and have you share your knowledge with us as we prepare the final drawings and the report and we will be doing a presentation to the select board in a couple weeks so I think with that what I'll do is I'll try to show the two preliminary options that we have to date which are coming now so what we have here if my screen is showing it's a site plan showing the existing building highlighted in Gray and that is basically the footprint of the existing structure which would be renovated as part of this conceptual design plan and what we're showing is at the street Frontage uh along Massachusetts AV there is there is a rather large RightWay so the the state the mot RightWay is rather large in this area we would be proposing that the town consider the addition of a sidewalk and so I was here for the earlier discussion the sidewalk comes through the town center and stops before the post office so there would be you know some desire for the town to to build out the sidewalk Connection in front of the post office an extent to this property we're showing a sidewalk which would leave the the town right away and go up to the building in the front it leaves an opportunity for some low impact design standard uh some so some rain Gardens out front we are conceptualizing a a outdoor patio um in front of the building and obviously some some additional landscaping around the perimeter and one of the benefits of Redevelopment of the site and in either scenario is to really narrow the amount of pavement right now as you approach that property it's it's it's all asphalt it's a former gas station and this would pull together um the the access way and it would make it one driveway which is a really B beneficial thing for pedestrians who are traversing in front of this property and on the site plan we're showing five uh six six regular parking spaces in an accessible space out front and that's sort of in this the left side of the property um an area that's already been utilized and Disturbed and that would be you know a proposed area for parking we're showing on the very left side of the property some privacy fence and Landscaping to meet the zoning bylaw requirements and there would be a an enclosed dumpster area and so we are doing the analysis of um excuse me sorry see moving my screen here interestingly I lost my cursor okay our precedent examples that we're trying to explore are some properties that have been converted from former gas station uses so the the two images on the at the top precedent examples are a property that we were told about in Peril uh a converted gas gas station gone to a bakery and uh for all accounts that's been tremendously successful and then the image on the bottom the two images on the bottom are a property uh in Hardwick uh that has been converted also from a gas station to a bakery cafe SL restaurant so we think that those options not only comply with the zoning bylaw but also would present a potential unique opportunity to provide a small business in that location and then scrolling through to the the second option is a proposed uh new building it's in the general same location as the existing building except this one would meet meet the required setbacks so I failed to mention that the the existing gas station building does have some encroachments into the setback area so it would be considered non-conforming um in this case we would be you know you would be seeking a developer who would meet the setbacks so there's a 10t rear setback and a 10ft sidey yard setback and then a bu a new building in this Village Center area would be setback about 5 ft from the front property line so we're running with the same conceptual plan which would show the extension of a town sidewalk and um this this Arrangement has fewer parking spaces um we're we're showing that it looks like it fit about three parking spaces with one accessible space and this is where you know your input would be valuable but what we see is the zoning bylaw has some opportunities for shared parking and there are properties to uh let's presume the East so to the right of this property that do have available parking so you know a future reuse of this property would likely require some sharing or um shared parking agreements with the adjacent property that's the property that has the post office on it and for a new construction the zoning that we see requires a minimum of two-story building so we have a couple precedent examples here the the top image is a three-story mixed use building which could could be a little large for this parcel but it is to demonstrate that you the the concept would be some kind of commercial or retail or restaurant on the first floor with possibly residential on the second floor and third floor and then the image below that is a picture of a renovated existing building which would demonstrate the potential feasibility of having some ground floor uh commercial retail and apartments above one one constraint that we see in the zoning B currently is that um a a a multiple story building with just residential is considered multif family and it's actually not allowed under the current zoning so it does start to push the conversation towards a mixed use something on the ground floor that's not residential with with some small number of apartments above but when you look at parking requirements that would you know be required to share parking because the property is pretty small overall so I think with that I'm going to share stop sharing my screen and see if the planing board members have questions comments any thoughts and input for us so I shared some thoughts um in a meeting previously with this group so where they also asked if they could come before us and share at large so I don't need I don't want to dominate that beginning of the discussion so if you have thoughts please do we have anything in terms of like our historical preservation District that says how you are allowed to design or what the building's allowed to look like do we have anything like that or is this up to the developer I think you're a resident expert on the whatever we call the architectural the apdc is not the historical commission the historical commission will have a say on this building because it's more than 75 years old I believe so they'll have to go through a demolition uh hearing demolition delay or whatever I'm not quite sure how they call it but the architectural preservation District commission or committee or whatever they do have input on facades and and and appearance and whatnot um okay that was that was my only uh question regarding that just in terms of what would happen if if uh the the new building was the direction that this went um if I can add normally that is on the design appearance of the building not necessarily on the use sure I think what Jeff is really looking for is input on the use uses being proposed is that correct Jeff you're you're mainly looking for input on the use at this point yeah I mean I think I think acknowledging that there are some design considerations that a future developer would need to address it's going to end up in our report it is specifically outlined in the village centers only that you know there's requirements for the building finish um there are some discussions about what especially facing the street what type of facades are allowed and required and for example it does dictate that there should be some kind of pedestrian entrance along the street Frontage um and then there are there is actually some information about the the roof type um I mentioned The Pedestrian entrances and lighting signage and things like that would all be you know things that would come through and be presented to the planning board once there's a development proposal for the purposes of our projects we're not charged with creating a rendering of what the building could look like but that is certainly something that um as the town moves forward with potentially seeking a developer for the property that is something that would have to be addressed and I think the planing board would be the the people who see that and make the determinations that it's compatible with that area okay thank you um when it comes to the second option the new building what kind of hurdles do we have when it comes to because like clearly that's not sufficient parking for the structure what kind of hurdles do we have or or need to be taken in consideration when it comes to how do you um Supply that parking so the parking in our Village Center District yeah is um still has some pretty straightforward requirements but they are less restrictive than we have in the rest of town in that normally if you're going to have a cafe anywhere else in town a restaurant what have you you have to have parking there in the Village Center District you can have parking there or parking within x large number of feet within a th000 ft that is um the basically the want to say dedicated it's not necessarily strictly dedicated but you've like it is dedicated it's a specifically legally binding agreement that will be presented yes so so it might it might or might not say only parking for Happy Times Cafe sure but the idea is you have to have that that legally binding agreement in place to still meet our parking requirements gotta so if we're just talking about the structure that we have here this is this is probably talking about something the effect of like the lot for the old elementary school or or whatever it was over here that just got demolished like do we know of or see any other like I'm I'm trying to understand how option two is something we can say that we want to do because if it's a two-story building like it's going to have significant occupancy so it's going to have more than four parking spaces needed um and where within that th000 ft is that capability so to my understanding um the way things are currently set up the most likely potentially only target for that parking we talk about the the the property of the post office yeah I mean includes the post office but it's the same owner also owns the parking lot behind the post office and behind Town Hall if I if memory serves is that right like this one right here yeah oh okay um So within it would be likely within that owner with some of those spaces would be the contracted ones but there would have to be cuz right now there's been talk in town about wouldn't it be nice if some people feel wouldn't it be nice if the old school lot was dedicated parking uh there's some concerns about road crossing there but that doesn't apply for our parking for the Village Center District bylaw you know zoning um but we don't have that yet it doesn't exist and I say yet there is no concrete plan to do that as opposed to anything else yeah okay I have a I have a comment to make on the parking if I could just add to that I think it's a good discussion and this is why this is why we're here to gather your sort of responses and your feedback the the zoning does allow for you know an applicant to come in with a with a reasonable waiver request as well so you know we cannot exactly predict what a developer would want to do but if the town the town owns the property so it's part of the disposal of it which the proper turn is is to dispose of the property the RFP will will set forth some criteria and so um if it's reasonable the developer could propose a parking situation that they would they would take the responsibility to propose a reasonable reduction with the planning board that would be option A the other option would be that the developer could come into the planning board with a written agreement of the abing property owner and so it is something where they would take the responsibility to assess that option they as the as the member said they would need to come in with a written agreement so it wouldn't it shouldn't be um something that's not that has not been discussed um but that is an option and then the one last thing I just wanted to mention because it's it's interesting when we start talking about the potential for a new building is the zoning requires that it not be one story so under the current zoning requirements we we will be identifying a couple of the constraints one constraint um is that a multif family building a two-story multif family building so residen is on first floor and the second floor is not allowed but if you do build a new building it has to be two stories so we we will be presenting the option where the renovation of the existing structure has a lot of Merit to it but if the building were to be deemed not you know structurally sound and not able to be renovated then it would push the second option of a of a new of a new building which has to be two stories so it's going to beg you know creativity and it's going to beg you know a future developer to to try to seek some kind of written agreement with the abing property owner the the the post office side so I just wanted to add that so what I would like to suggest is next time next time there's a new set of plans pre prepared that that that thousand foot off offset of the property line for the small parcel be be presented on a plan so that it it's a visual that we can see where could possibly conforming to the bylaw there's a number of large Parcels adjacent to it and 1,000 ft is a lot is a lot yeah I would just note that you look at 1,000 ft it's a very large area yep and then you have to consider the the the people that are going to be using whatever facility is created are they going to be able to walk 1,000 ft and I think that's where it comes down to they may not be they may not be dedicated in the sense of listed parking only for X but they contract out to have the spaces knowing full well that in Practical use there may be people parking across the street by the old school law until something happen knowing there may be people parking behind Town Hall unless there's some something preventing them and that that kind of SL it maintains that there's enough spaces overall for downtown in theory um 1,000 ft goes to about the library from here or from that spot so just as a I mean I personally I I like the ReUse of old buildings even ones that are old gas stations I mean there's character there is still history and it's still preservation um never mind fiscal and environmental benefits of reuse as well just in terms of character of the Town preservation and reuse is wonderful some of us still remember that whistle I I uh on the other hand if we had to rebuild honestly L some you know some small apartments near downtown that are on the more affordable side um I don't know if anyone's looked at what homes are going for in town and how many are available right now but ain't many nine um and my neighbors are going to put so lunenberg whether or not on paper there's an affordable housing problem there is a housing that's affordable problem um you know affordable housing being that technical thing um we could we could meet that requirement and still not have a fraction of the housing that people can afford that's actually needed for our town again thinking ahead what happens to the young people who were here earlier who are super civically minded who are engaged when they move out of home home and have to go to Fitchburg or Lemer if they want to stay in the area just because there's nowhere they can they can't stay in their Hometown so I I I like the idea of a for of apartments that are affordable that are integrated within the community in an organic way as opposed to yet another highrise over on the border of one of our more urban Neighbors I see the advantage of that but I think the parking could potentially be a big hurdle to overcome if if I may uh this is a91 acre parcel .1 n22 is 8,000 square ft give or take yeah mhm you you if there was no buildings on there you might be able to fit 20 cars on that period I don't I don't think housing is is a is a quite quite honestly I've got I've got another topic um is is I'm not quite sure why we're discussing development potential of this rather than just marketing it to somebody that buys it and then discusses development potential are we are we in the business of developing businesses and selling them off now or suggesting that the businesses be built and then sold I'm not not quite sure I don't understand my understanding was the impetus for the acquisition of this property was to get it remediated and it's remediated m so now I think we should just dispose of it and let somebody else worry about it I think that they're trying to get some idea of what the town won have so when you put RFP you get they have some ideas there okay um I think the U I'm not sure if it's ever been spored if a two family for instance I'm not sure that's a viable op not it's allowed use by special permit by zba on their property and and look at two family side by side with you probably fit the parking for easily on that site be still a tight fit but it's just not thought mhm can I I this is a great conversation by the way it's it's informative for us um just a couple of the things I would I would want to help the board understand is that the fact that you have the opportunity to share parking in your zoning is actually a really good benefit so it just it just allows a little bit of flexibility in the future for and it's not cart launch so it would be flexibility that a developer could explore and then come to the planning board it is pretty common for for boards to not even have that opportunity to discuss shared parking and it actually really restricts what future opportunity could could be available to the site and I think um we are not necessarily pushing which option is the best but it does it does put the town in the driver's seat to have you have control over the property and you when you go through this process of putting out an RFP you have the ability to demonstrate what what the community wants the most and I think the clarity of a vision is what developers that's part of what the develop would look for so the idea of commercial use was was at the top because of its location at the Village Center and you know the market the market shows that the there could be support for this site to be redeveloped and then you know we we've been looking and watching along as you start your master plan process and a lot of the community members have chimed in to say that this is a this you know not this site but the Village Center would be a good site for a small Cafe type use or small mixed use so you do have an opportunity to sort of sift through what might be viable options and and I think um the two things that I've heard so far is showing a depiction of where the Thousand ft is I think that could be really informative and we we can definitely incorporate that if there is the concept of a reuse of the building and it if it is for like a small restaurant the shared parking could could be really suitable for employees you know and that that's the kind of shared parking agreement that you might expect is someone comes in and says the emplo employees will park offsite to free up the few spaces that are there for customers and then I don't think it's uncommon or unheard of for for even residential uh especially for apartment um apartment renters to to have parking in close proximity so there could be some creativity moving forward with how the parking gets handled but I think for our purposes you know it is a small site and these are the two options that we're seeing the third option could be for the town to just dispose of it with no guidance but I think you know that that the town misses an opportunity to give some some some direction of where you know the community wants to go I would expect that if the town gave guidance you one probably going to have a better response from perspective developers and what you sell it for may be a little bit higher because there is that buying from the community uh and also touch on Jeff said the applicant when they ask for reduction or a in or a alternative method for meeting the parking the burden is on them demonstrate that's appropriate and reasonable and it works and it's not the burden is on the town to make that determination burdens on the appin to demonstrate that to town satisfaction in the permitting process other and I mentioned to them before but just for the sake of having it here as well I know that there's been talks among many groups uh including the economic development committee about how nice it would be to have a cafe small restaurant type that kind of small go gety coffee situation in downtown that we don't have currently um other thoughts from the board to share so to help our friends have a as completed picture as possible um I just wanted to say so both the plans I can see Merit in I appreciate the idea of having um more options for for rental um more options for rent within the Town Center I think that that sounds really nice the minimal amount of parking that would happen with that multi-story mixed use building I think is more of a burden than just well they can walk from a parking lot that's nearby if I have an apartment and I've had apartments that are third floor walk-ups I don't want want to park super far away and have to walk I know it's not a huge distance but I feel like people would be uh more likely to use the shared parking if they were going to a business rather than their residents so looking at the two plans hopefully that building can be reused and not have to be torn down because I think that makes the most sense especially for that area I think the thought of having Apartments there is a great idea I just don't know if it would make sense for a renter to want to have to battle for a parking spot and walk in the winter and I think you know you mentioned there's a sidewalk that's going to be added you know it's still a distance to walk when you're carrying groceries and you know just thinking practically I think they did mention that it'd be more likely that residents would probably be parking on site now it's also worth noting our parking rules for restaurants are somewhat massage in that we require uh number of a number of spots based on the employees and then a number of spots based on seating and it becomes possible then to I'm I'm looking at that with effectively four spots um on what would be the rebuild so that's a case where you could would have two small apartments if that's a 2,000 squ ft you could be talking about like if it was two small apartments each designated one spot um employee parking designated offsite and um then depending on the nature of the restaurant only having a couple parking spots for customers directly there could be appropriate and could also be limited by how much seating they provide again a cafe that's more stop and go that could work for it there could be other I mean there's economic issues there's a lot of other stuff going on but there's options there um I think all in all I'm glad that somebody's looking into what to do with the space and and hopefully um from this some some good ideas and a good uh finished product for the town comes out of it yeah all right yeah if that's all um I hope I hope this was helpful for you absolutely was and and I think just knowing that the plan board is aware of the the project at all I think is really helpful I think we heard the small scale nature of it I think makes sense with the with the size of the property so that's informative for us and then we'll be we'll be bringing this to the select board in a couple weeks and then you will see it again the town will be going through additional discussion um as they as they move towards actually you know releasing the RFP seeking a developer and and once a developer selected it still has to go through the local permitting process so this is this is pretty early in the in the conceptual design phase so it's really really helpful and appreciate it great thank you so much for joining us and thank you for coming here virtually to present yep thanks for having us all right let me get back to the agenda there we go needs a pen lame um so that was our presentation from BSC group I know that there is next up would be a demim change on the site plan for 494 electric AV but they have uh my understanding is they have pulled that correct the um engineer has requested withdrawal without prejudice so board just needs to vote to approve the withdraw without prejudice their intent is to they working on a larger um site plan for the area and their intends to come back later with that larger plan uh previously uh 494 electric C is is the current location of Il Forno restaurant um and they had come to us I don't remember if you two were on the you were J was okay um there's that whole new building they have to the side um that is more seating and they came to us with that as a project and this I believe was attached to that and they're no longer want what they would like to do next is a Minimus change but instead it's its own action um so I'd be looking for a motion to accept the withdrawal with without prej without prejudice motion to accept the withdrawal without prejudice for uh for 494 Electric Avenue perfect second moves and seconded all in favor I I I I great that was faster now let's see if we can keep that up uh next consideration discuss sign off for storm water permit for 430 mpus Road Mr Rogers you leaving us I didn't see this I think the uh bwn is done now well thank you for your company as always he's concerned that he stays or get elected to the board to sorry okay all right oh John PFA Mardi engineering I'm here for 430 mopus and just to I guess recap twofold right to refresh the board's memory and bring you up to speed Mr chairman I don't believe you were part of this discussion at the last meeting but we had come forth asking for a sign off on the storm water permit for lot two of a mopus road and we may have came forth a little sooner than than desired from the board so we were given you know a directive of you know complete the as built have Graves engineering review the as built and a performance bond was requested for lot two which is the one we're looking to have the sign off for tonight and also there's another lot that the construction has begun they were asked to provide um performance about performance guarantee amount to cover all the cost of the storm water infrastructure moving forward to today we submitted an as built Graves reviewed it Graves did have a few items that we agree that have to be addressed but they also did agree to the amount proposed in the performance guarant so we're requesting a sign off on the storm water permit so the developer can keep his closing and he can get his occupancy permit but we would ask that you know it would be conditioned upon the performance guarantee being placed with the town for the amount approved by Graves engineering and that the items addressed in Graves engineering's 59 report be addressed by the end of the month so that's about kind of the gist of my presentation and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have and the letter from graves is in uh where is the letter from graes it's in the shared file it's not in tonight's meeting file yeah it's not in tonight's meeting that's why I was asking it very much should be I I well I don't see it I don't see if you can give me a file name or which folder it's said that would be perfect the um is it the 37 the just so we can all get up to speed absolutely okay I'm me board meeting materials 2024 513 and you know if if it's helpful I can kind of outline them roughly of what their the big items were but if you want to see it for yourself that's we want to see it for ourselves too I outline will be appreciated but no not a problem okay she's going to move it so that you'll see it sorry that's fine and just while she's doing that what Graves engineering said is regarding the performance guarantee they approve they agree that 5,000 is sufficient for 430 mulpus but they also said that uh since 97 cross street I AKA lot 5 has not been developed yet in their opinion it's premature to to uh establish a uh guarantee amount for that okay and and again just just to recap you know we're requesting just to sign off for the occupancy permit and I give real quick rundown on the rain Gardens they said no plans no no mulch was later was present my understanding that it may have died and needs to be planted uh peone diaphragm upgrading areas of pone diaphrag not installed yet there is a section that was not installed they're need to go back and do that and they mentioned the flared in section the rip wrap arm Marine at the discharge Outlet was not installed yet those are three items they mentioned in terms of construction work and then there's a comment about as built plan what was that yeah um see I guess it basically it was done it was done um but given the fact that you've got the pie on diaphragm needs to be extended further and that needs to be added to the as as built right so they would need to come back with revised as built of course okay okay so we see what uh Graves engineering has said still needs to be done um now with that kind of more clearly in our minds I know you've said it twice already so I apologize for asking a third time but uh I I Can Only Hold On To so much at once so oh absolutely so sorry go ahead no so I'm turning to you and say again uh you're making a request about how you would like to see this handled yes okay so we would like for the planning board to agree to have Richard Harris the interim land use director to sign off on the portion of the occupancy permit that the storm water permit has been substantially complete with the condition that the performance guarantee will be put in place and that we would address all of graves items items by the end of this month and the performance guarantee is to provide that um it may not be released until 6 months after the items have mentioned gravesport have been dissolved to the town satisfaction and 6 months does not include non growing Seasons so it's no you need 6 months to make sure that vegetation takes hold and that's not going to happen in November December January February and March um and that needs to be Contin so you can't have 2 months of growing then four months of dormant or five months dormant then four that that doesn't work uh needs to be a continuous six-month period so then it would not be up for release until at least the end sometime no October it could been St could be next summer but yeah okay um but again that they get the um um oy sign off once they put the performance guarantee it be in form of tripart agreement and my suggestion be that if you agree to that tripart agreement has to be signed by all three parties the I would suggest the board could uh authorize sign off upon my receipt of the tri party agreement signed by the bank and the app the develop veler because once it's signed by those two parties it's just a matter of plan board members coming in sign it for be final and if we had a problem I'm sure we could you'd sign real quickly if we needed to um so that's how I would suggest that we resolved is everyone in the board familiar with trip party agreements in in rough concept okay great just one we've dealt with that more recently so I thought we would be but that's one of the they're become much more attracted to a lot of communities um so have we gotten a number from graves or what will be an appropriate they said 5,000 is appropriate for 430 mopus do we have that written somewhere in here yes in the email okay uh Dan sheanon email today and indicated that uh as for com through Graves it concurs at 5,000 is sufficient for mopus Road AKA Lot 2 all right looking for thoughts or questions from the board no additional questions um I'm going to keep keep saying it um I'm not uh I'm not happy that the town has a permit in place that ensures that developers develop the the finite amount of property in the town of lunenberg um and then we can't dictate we can't dictate ownership model so decades ago whan Park got developed and the understanding of the planning board my understanding of the understanding of the planning board at that time was that it would be rent to own and that was that was inferred by the applicant and come to find out when 20 years later they weren't being rented to Own Town Council weighed in well we can't we can't dictate ownership when we do a subdivision or or the plan whatever however we've got permits that are issued for an owner and then they want to change ownership for the permit and then not only that they want to they want to release the permit condition they want to give us a little bit of money to fix whatever might happen between now and then and I don't know am I the only person that sees an issue with this continuing to happen uh I don't know that I see it quite like that in full and that it's a little bit of money to complete specific work that will be done within a specific time frame and the money is then held on to to verify that that work is completed I I don't disagree but the the point I was trying to make was that we've never had this issue until storm water permits and then only recently was there actual sale without the permit being done and then we had to retroactively go okay we'll take a bond and then it's become commonplace for us to go ahead and okay yeah here's a bond here's a bond we'll take that Bond we'll do this we'll we'll bend over backwards to suit the uh the bank the bank uh account of the developer MH where in fact it could be hurting the the bank of the town and I'm not saying it's going to and I'm not I say this every time we get it no I'm I'm once you finish I just want to add on to that so so I'll have a question for Mr Harris but please go ahead well just to add to that I just want to reiterate that this permit's not being closed out right this is just for lot two so you know the town in in a sense holds the cards or holds the keys because we're going to have to come back for the COC of the original permit and then on top of that there's now a bond in place it makes sense M yeah it does but but again I it makes sense on some level but that this under underlying level that it does not make sense it it it came up I want to say last year the first time and now we've had eight or 10 of them um I think one of the reasons we are seeing more right now is also impact in part because there are some actions that the board is now taking that I don't know if this is one of them or not but um I know we're seeing a lot of these releases and everything overall right now in a way that I think it's questionable that we have to be the decision makers as opposed to our representative and I think our representative has been that decision maker more often for us in the past to keep our agendas a little more streamlined we don't have an established longtime land use director so I think that may be playing into it as well not necessarily with this specific case but agree oh and that could be for the horse bucket yeah um the way the decisions have been written in the past including the one for this one it authorized land District to sign off MH on the oct permit and I did sign off in couple until I got realized what the stor water bylaw actually says and I I determined that I did not feel comfortable doing that because the decisions didn't tie the sign offs to the certificate of completion which the stormw bylaw does and you'll see in 317 321 Sun Hill it does and I'd suggest that type language be used in the future as does Brian G gingis um so yes the Chairman's right that in the past the Lance director signed off on them because that's way the decisions were written I don't think that's an appropriate format or structure and we've also talked that in future cisions should be requiring a covenant agreement for storm water permits just like you do for subdivision development so that way there couldn't be a transfer of property without the planning board specifically releasing that lot from the Covenant agreement um that gives you more control over the whole process uh but given the way the decisions were written back then including this one the land director could sign off on if he was satisfied with the as built plan I get you I forgot about the the catching up to the change I forgot about that thank you welcome um so I think I think you may have also answered my question are we but maybe not directly and are are we this actually I'm curious are we handling these scenarios differently than other towns like us are handling it or are we largely on par um I really can't speak to that okay cuz we're I worked before we didn't have single family homes triggering stor Mar permits um that's the case what we do that we've run into with other towns right this is one of the few towns that single family homes requires the storm water permit so all right and that's that would impact a lot of this too um cuz typically we would have uh stor permit for subdivision we'd have it for multif family development we'd have it for commercial development had it for Cemetery yeah and park things like that dog park in fact triggered it um but seeing F homes typically didn't one tror it that one I know lots it's interesting because we are seeing that there at least from the engineering perspective there is a theoretical need for it because there is runoff that needs to be mitigated um all right I I think I am personally comfortable with what has been requested because it is based off of graves engineering um and their assessment and that we're talking about something that is largely complete and the I I know Tri party agreements work I always worry anyway but this is still a value that is I hate to say 5 grand is inconsequential but it it is compared to maybe the cost of a house doesn't mean we don't treat it seriously but this isn't a larger sum as well I'm curious what others are thinking or if we're good and if there's people who want to make a motion I would accept that too I'm not super convinced people are done talking but they might be I'm done okay then I'm more convinced people might be done I'm trying to be euma and Broad but if uh someone wanted to make a motion for this what would be appropriate for approval authorize the interm laneous director to sign off on the oing permit for 430 mopus AKA Lot 2 subject to submission to the town of a performance guarantee in the amount of $5,000 and a form a subtitute the town on before May 31 2024 um triart agreement is seped to the town the point seat of the tripart agreement signed by the bank and the developer the or applicant the interim L director can sign off and O permit for subject property performance guarantee is understood to provide that it may not be released until 6 months after the items mentioned in the graves uh May 9th 2024 report had been resolved to the town satisfaction the 6 months does not include non-growing Seasons such as November through March and that 6 months needs to be a continuous six- Monon period so moved sure I'm glad I asked what that motion would look like if there was a second I didn't hear it and if there's no second that's another thing second moved and seconded um can I because there was discussion on this previously can I still vote on this okay CU I wasn't here for it okay great all discussion that's relevant has been here tonight glad as I want to make sure that I'm not going to screw us up I mean I screw us up anyway but you know less than usual in that case moved seconded all in favor I I I I uh there we go thank you so much thank you very much you have a good rest of your night thank you good evening um next consider certificate of completion for 317 and 321 Sunny Hill Road thank everyone for their patience this evening I'm trying we got a lot here I'm trying to move us efficiently but thoroughly hi Tim battles owner of 317 and 321 like the gentleman before me I'm here to uh discuss the storm water the completion of the storm water I just received Graves report uh a few hours ago so I'm sure you guys at the same time got that or maybe not um according to their report there there's still some things that need to be done um but they're fairly minor I was talking to my contractor Daniel Proctor and he is here as well and can uh address any questions that you have for finishing the project if you want um but I do believe that Graves also recommended a shity of 5,000 per lot um I am also looking for a CO especially for 321 I do have a buyer I lost the one I had when I was last year um looking to close on May 28th and I always say I need this certificate of occupancy to do that I've you know we're probably 90% done as far as that goes uh grass is just starting to come in now on the slope I don't think the pictures that were shown by uh Graves actually showed that um because I think it just especially on 321 it looks like it just sprouted Mr Harris I sent you a recent photo just that I took shows that it is starting to come in um believe me no one wants to get this done right sooner than I do um so I'm asking the board here to uh Grant a certificate of occupany for 321 as well just like you just voted upon and um it looking through it looks like uh um Graves is also recommending uh in this case a 5,000 per lot charity correct that's what they're saying yes okay I would know this the decision on this is written different from the others of course it is um because this came up after I I can realize how the bylaw is written and this says a fine oy permit must not be issued until a certificate of completion has been issued by the planning board pursuing to an as built plan indicating loot grading and drain bmps have been confirmed to be consistent the approved plans to town satisfaction in accordance with the procedures set forth in the stormw water bylaw so this is some different from the others which said land inst director can sign off when you got as buil plan um so be sure the board is aware of that given Graves report if I can find yeah um they said that the ASB plans do not conform to the approved plans there are two significant deviations that need be corrected first the temporary construction swell needs to be diverted to rain Garden one to allow both Stone water bmps for 317 and 321 suhill road to operate independently and as originally intended and the also the as built swell needs to discharge to the sment forb on Northern side of the posed rain Garden number two so there again it it tied to the as built plan being acceptable so the question comes up when are those two things going to be done Dan Proctor 1529 massav uh Excavating contractor so obviously had a conversation with Tim this week is pretty booked but I will be there within the next 10 days the drainage that he's talking about between 3177 and 321 that we put in I did that on purpose because 317 is not stabilized very well just because they haven't built the house yet so there's no driveway there's no septic system there's all that I thought it was the best thing to do to get the water to go into the drainage basin that is done that's literally about a 2-hour job with my skid steer to take that out to let the water go the other way so that I mean I can do that this week that's simple so the question comes up with that when you do that what's going to happen to the water it's going to go to 317 which is what the plan showed the problem is the plan showed the water going down to 3177 but that site is getting picked up 8 ft with fill MH for the house and the septic system so when that's built up 8 ft all the water that comes rain water that comes off a Sunny Hill and what have you is going to hit that septic mound and it's going to go towards the Basin on three 17 well right now that's not built because he hasn't sold the house it hasn't been constructed what have you so it's very easy to get it to go to the Rain Garden on 317 which is stabilized there is silt in it I understand that but the bottom line is that's an easy fix um what was the other one you brought up I'm sorry um the asil SW needs discharged 74 Bay on Northern side of proposed rain Garden number two of number two which is 321 right okay right so that's again go down there with the excavator muck that out clean that out I know he mentioned um the Overflow Spillway he was concerned about the amount of rock on that same thing that's a pretty easy fix do you currently have the property under the contract yes when that schedule close 28th of this [Music] month drama yeah um so I'll need some help here because there's so many nuances and differences in MO uh moving Parts due to the nature of the Beast as well as differences between what we've just looked at what we see here what we've also seen in the past I'm I am having a little bit of a hard time wrapping my mind around what our requirements are for this project and I I mean it clearly doesn't meet every requirement because we have a letter from graves right but where I'm not sure myself and others on the board may actually have a great understanding be able to educate me as well is how does the ways this does not meet those requirements or the fact this does not meet those requirements interact with our ex with the expectations we set forth in our original condition the decision said no final occupy permit until issue until certificate certificate of completion is issued that can't be done till you have satisfactory um as built um grav saying 5,000 sufficient and the board could say that well we have no objection to a temporary Co um but no final Co on 321 until these are done and require a forance guarantee and Graves say 5,000 sufficient so you just made a face with that sentence so I'm going to ask you it see like lot work to me for $5,000 okay that was I was having a similar thought but I I'll be honest I got no clue but it looks like there was a volunteer for information well I was just going to say $5,000 would take care of the problems that Graves identified I mean I'm an Excavating contractor I give numbers to people all the time I mean vested interest here as well I'm not I'm not saying that to be rude or yeah but yeah no I I I'd still appreciate the input it is 5,000 per lot so it's 10 oh good fair point we were talking about two lots um so if if the board were inclined to um agreed to the issuance of temporary Co and 321 uh with a performance guarantee of 10,000 on 317 321 combined would you be willing to say yes that can't be none of that can be released until everything's complete completed on both Lots absolutely so M what I what I heard was if the board want and that's temporary coo no I understood no final coo until everything's done right so what I heard was the second lot doesn't even have a septic system or a foundation or it needs to come up nothing's been yeah so that's going to be far more than $5,000 yeah that that's that's the reason I questioned the 5,000 that's ridiculous no oh okay I mean yeah so that's that's that's what we're looking at yeah that's when I was saying why combine the two then that way you have 10,000 but we are we issuing the temporary we're not issuing a temporary Co for the other law because there's nothing there no there's nothing there um but so that 5,000 that's just for the work needed to 5,000 per lot but that's just for the lot I'm suggesting that if you are inclined to agree to the temporary Co um with performance guarantee that it be ridden such that it's 5,000 per lot but the total 10,000 none of the 10,000 gets released until yes both lots are completed that way if there's additional issues it caused in the meantime by the everything yeah um man I wish there was a more straightforward way to address this so everyone could be easy in on the same page and know what we're dealing with and there' be straightforward is if everything gets done few months before the need the need so and yeah yeah but we're not there right so I sure would love thoughts from the board um I will say that I'm comfortable with combining the two and then waiting until the second is done we'll say the pictures are pretty rough I have to the site but the pictures are rough um so it does look like a lot of work I'm not an expert obviously um but I I think that makes the most sense because at least we have something to fall back on for the other property and the reason I said temporary Co the decision specifically says find again a final occupy permit so that way you issue temporary Co or sign off on temporary [Music] and once they complete the work then we sign off uh base one new as built new as buil is going to be submitted um at that time but a temporary allows it to be sold and occupied I I've known to be to be occupied yes so some some some closing attorneys may not accepted temporary um some some banks want to said temporary but because it is temporary yeah so that was going to be my next question and again the questions I'm going to ask now AR nothing to do with you this is a a kind of a bra I what happens to the buyer MH they get the house temporary coo everything goes to pot everyone involves has a heart attack kills over there's a ton of problems and now they have a house with a temporary with the temporary Co and like they're stuck with that and nothing get none of the work is done yeah um and there's not a clear path forward like I'm talking about the buyer gets screwed what happens and that's that's the reason for per performance guarantee in theory the town could then call the performance guarantee and have some have contract come in and do the work and that's the reason I kind of questioned the 5,000 because you may be able to do it for 5,000 ERS but if the town has to go through its process it will be more than 5,000 it if you do 5,000 it's like to be 7500 just because nature of the procurement process but again one of the reasons for the temporary is that that that get some leverage to make sure that um because I would expect they they're going to be very hant until they get the final and it being a a temporary CO as well I mean that that's a IND that is a there's also a level of buyer beware and they're aware of what they're coming into absolutely I mean I've been in bware similar scenarios in the past so I get it um all right so I I think so I I trust Graves they they they do right by us the stuff is generally good a part of my feeling is it may be hearing that and having had similar discussions in the past I wonder if in the future it's worth having a board policy to go X above the estimate yeah I've always um advis boards Go 25 to 50% above a estimate which in this case I'd say you'd go to 15,000 I was wondering if that would just Shore things up and and make it that way there's there's great incentive on on the developers part to get it done because that's 15,000 they with and also if it does go to pot there is sufficient funds using public procurement process to get it get the work done because public curement has uh insurance requirements all those type labor issues and stuff we don't get to do things cheap no no uh I we don't get to do things Frugal I could i' get this I tell you about a really bad example of that what does uh again thoughts from the board with that data are we comfortable at the 10 would we feel better a 25 or a 50% increase in case things went sideways again just trying to protect the eventual resident of the town and I'm not trying I'm actually I want to be clear I I'm not trying to lead one way or another I'm not I don't feel confident on which is the right answer so well I I will say that this is the first one that the order of conditions has aligned with what we have thought we were approving mhm and for I thought similar reasons but I'm just one person with my my little enclos brain so that that's you saying you think it makes sense and that 10,000 is appropriate no not at all no okay then I think you saying don't issue sign off until they they get em I don't speak for you but there's no asil yeah right well there is asil but it's not not it's it needs to be revised how does the asilt show a septic in a house with on or show does ASU on 321 permit was permit was for two lots right yeah is that's the part that I think I haven't been understanding is has there been work done on 37 like is there it's it's not in any condition to like attempt to sell it or like if there's this's am I understanding right there's no house built there's no septic system there's no septic system there's no house built um I have brought lot of fill yeah um to prepare it okay um but at this point there's no plans sure why then why do we have 317 on this if because it's one storm War permit they graded both sites at one time and so you got disturbance on both sides that's start um initially the permit was for 321 I think or building permit was 321 it they R get closed on that and that's when it or Co on it that's when ran looked at and said it it is more than one acre of disturbance therefore storm water per is required along other issues but and then they came in I guess in February I think it was when the board acted on the the storm water permit and um retroactively by the way right well if I may we were in first informed of the requirement for the storm water when Brian came for the final inspection in the meantime the previous building inspector had been out there multiple times approving everything and never even mentioned anything about the requirement for a storm water so it was a big surprise to me when this all came up so I'm now scrambling retroactively as well um so Mr oh please I just wanted to uh tell Tim something too so what we did was when that plan was approved for both Lots okay we started at the bottom of the hill erosion control yeah Sil fence hay bales the whole bit that's only for the storm water there's no Wetlands around so everything is being built from the bottom of the hill up if we were to build a septic system first and then try to do the rain Garden after it would be very difficult because of the steepness of the hill and what have you so we're really trying to work our way backwards and obviously he knows he's going to sell that lot at some point so why not get that storm water started get vegetation growing I mean I know Mr Harris talked about you know the lovely growing Seasons here in New England the six months what have you well everything that we seated a month ago is starting to Germany so we're trying to catch that window because otherwise you're never really going to catch a growing season you know just the way it is but six-month period is make sure that it doesn't grow and then die out during the heat of Summer and then mhm no I understand I'm just saying it's just kind of difficult another thing too just so you know like we do all these projects in town for you know septic systems what have you conserv there's an order of conditions that the deed is put on the prop deed restrictions put on the property that does not get signed off until the vegetation is established so sometimes that's a year later you get the conservation back there to look at the grass established then that recording on that property can get removed so it's fairly common that that's the way that all works thank you thank you so [Applause] seems like we have Graves saying if we wanted to issue a temporary SE here's what the cost would be here's what we would need in charity uh we have Mr Harris's input saying yes but we should consider that Graves estimate doesn't take into account the way the town has to pay for things meaning more uh it sounds like if I may paraphrase you Mr Allison of course um Mr Allison points out yes but this says everything has to be done before we can sign off and we're really not close to everything um if we're issuing a temporary certificate of completion does that mean that where like we're also that certificate of temporary certificate of completion is also being issued for 317 which has not had no all you would not issue a certificate completion You' be authorizing sign off on a temporary occupy permit for 321 gotcha okay okay I have those mixed up the certificate completion for 321 would only occur after all the work has been done and revised as built submitted for 321 okay um touching on Mr Allison's point I appreciate the point and the building commission I've talk and I have talked about this as well when you have a subdivision you do a covenant agreement you're building 10 Lots in there you release a covenant agreement on particular Lots as the improvements are done to allow those lots to be built on and we talk about the idea that maybe with the stormw permit a similar approach should be taken as well in the future so that you have a c agreement that says you don't get release until the storm War improvements have been the comate sufficiently done for each lot that you're releasing and then you have performance guarantee to cover make sure that everything gets the vegetation is maintained for 6 months and stuff like that uh so on this case I would suggest what you do it not suggest but if you want to uh authorize a temporary occupancy permit it be with a performance guarantee that covers both Lots gotcha and that they have completed all the work by the in they said 10 days by the end of this month has to be completely done and um then they have submit a revised as built for 321 and the performance guarantee would cover it's 5,000 it's x amount per lot but it would be a collective amount that wouldn't be released until all the work is done on 317 as well okay to the town satisfaction right I I think where're as I think through where I think I stand as as one person um I hear what Mr Rich uh uh what Mr Harris says I think there's room for improvement in some of our processes here um things are becoming more I mean this isn't new land's not getting easier to build on cuz the easy land already been built on right and so I think we have to get comfy with the idea that we're going to be continuously revising some of our processes as new challenges crop up we have a potential resident of the Town who is planning and hoping to move in it seems like we are able to give them to let them get what they need who is really my biggest concern here are the PE are the people wanting to buy a property right um and the town as a whole it seems like a uh 12,500 15,000 charity gives them some good protection as well as the fact that not every attorney not every bank is going to be comfy with this scenario and so they have I mean there's a level of buyer buyer beware there's also multiple steps in the process that both make sure they're aware as well as are there to protect them I mean the the bank not loaning isn't to protect the person it's to protect the bank but in the end that if if it feels bad to the bank there's often a reason for that um from their fiscal side and that would protect the buyer as well um so I think I end up in favor of approving a temporary Co with the listed with the conditions as specified by Mr Harris myself um whole thing feels messy part of me it's like oh maybe we should have a so you want to develop in Lunenburg packet but then how do you get in the hands of people who want to develop because they don't really have to do anything for a while and I I don't um but calling out things like our storm water process is different than some other towns in the effort to better protect things so I think that's where I settle but I am one of four um I I would agree with you as far as the amount um if we can set a precedence in this meeting saying yes Graves might say that it's only going to be 5,000 per lot but we as the planning board think it should be more wonderful I do feel bad about an applicant coming here thinking that it's going to be 5,000 per lot and then we say just kidding that's not what we're doing now so if going forward we can include something that would say you know from now on the planning board has that right to request more than that amount wonderful if we feel like we need to do that tonight I get that I do feel bad for the applicant that that's that that's what has transpired um I understand the frustration of losing buyers like you know that's an awful thing to go through but it it's I want to make sure that we do it right now so in the future we don't have people coming and say this is what Graves gave us this is what we saw in their email this is what we're we're putting down if that makes sense yeah I think to me it makes sense and I would also point out that um I think again some of what we're dealing with with messiness comes from the fact that Mr Harris is about as knowledgeable as they come and we get kind of like a third of a person out of him it's a heck of a third but um it is not the same as having a full-time land use director to that point if you're watching at home and you are a certified urban planner or like to play one on TV oo do I know a place you should apply um check out the town website the jobs are posted there and uh the Town land use director G is different than some other towns but if you're someone who likes variety it could be a real great match for you for the love of God please apply it would make me happy all right now that we've got that ad out of the way um so I think I'm comfy splitting the difference if we're saying F 50% would be ideal we're a little discussion if the town can do a 10% I think I'm comfy at the like 1250 as the 125 yeah H yeah numbers at the 125 as a kind of Middle Ground there to both recognize it's a little bit of a it could feel like a gotcha but also we do got to protect people so I think I'm comfy there um there's two members we haven't heard from on the like at this point in the conversation weer from otherwise though and as always I'm happy to say Matt that's a great idea go to hell I don't really have any additional contributions at this point I think Mr Allison do you have thoughts or that you want to share or no I'm you don't have to speak um yeah so you're you're based on your you're um you're basing this on protecting a homeowner I mean on many factors but that on yeah on protecting a on protect well I say on trying to meet the needs and protect a someone who has been anticipating becoming homeowner within our community who knows if they they may may not already be a resident of our community we have no idea and that's not really relevant for it but there's a person who has a plan I'd like to protect uh like in part of protecting mean let them get what they've been planning on but I want to make sure if we did it in a we did it in the best way possible and again I do think we want to look at some of these policies going forward to shore up and I think the um setting things up as Mr Harris said in the future having that be uh a requirement of ours for the storm water is probably a very good idea but we don't have that now what we do have is the different order of conditions that prevented what we were seeing happening and that's what we did to fix that problem and we're not going to use it now we're going to look forward to the future of something else we can create that we may or may not use then right okay that's that's all I've got to say okay thank you I think I I see some differences there but I don't know that there I don't know that I would be changing your mind regardless and I I think it might be more in the weeds than for this that's super helpful right now um all right I would be looking for a what do what kind of vote do we need for this by the way just so we know in that is simple majority simple majority okay great I would be looking for um more discussion or a motion if you were looking [Music] to uh you I'll just ask you directly rather than trying to summarize myself Mr Harris if someone were looking to move in favor MH what would that motion look like right now motion to authorize the interus director to sign off on a temporary occupancy permit for 321 Sun Hill Road upon receipt of a performance guarantee in the amount of $12,500 uh in a form satisfactory separate to the town that performance guarantee not to be released until all the improvements for 321 and 317 Sun Hill Road have been completed and final occupy permit not to be issued not sign off on until all the improvements all the work identified in the graves report for 321 suhill Road has been completed to town satisfaction and the revised asilt plan has been received and approved by the town you sure you don't want to come here full time no if I don't ask at least once an hour so moved second moved and seconded all in favor I I all opposed I very good so um I think you're all set in front right well thank you I think yeah that's it for now right yes um what is the form you're going of performance guarantee you're going to provide well that's my my question um I don't know the process here for for doing that the previous developer is doing a trip party agreement which is a agreement between the bank the developer and the town where the bank holds the performance guarantee from any payments and then that's submitted and then once we're satisfied then we authorize release of that okay is that the town's bank is that what you're saying or whatever whatever Bank you want to use we already have a trip party agreement in place but that's a different one I think right that it's not tied to the performance guarantee the tri parties for the the application process that's the um there's a trip party account okay we talk about Tri party agreement which is a uh contract between the bank developer in the town so I'll provide you know a cash you can provide cash deposit with the town me draft up a performance guarantee document that then you sign and does the town have that document or do you need me to I can modify one to send it to you okay and then we have one for subdivision I think they can be tweaked to address storm W as well and then I just deliver that with check to the town to Amanda I mean sorry an to Annie yes sorry about that it's okay yes okay um yeah as soon as I get that from you I'll okay I'll try to give that that out to you tomorrow great thank you very much thank you very much for your time appreciate it all right next up 8:00 all right no burger for me tonight interim director report just want to let you all be aware of where we stand on two items Northfield five Trail Northfield States you authorize sign off a por receipt of the performance guarantee Etc that was done and therefore I did sign off on that perform on that uh occupancy permit and um NBTA zoning I know there hasn't been any discussion here yet and I just want to be sure you're aware of what the status is uh according to the regional plan agency they've been working with the town to do that they said the town is in compliance through December 31 in 2025 when the small adjacent towns were had to comply okay they've issued a draft memorandum that is now in the shared file that U sorry basically lays out four options for the town to actually be in full compliance and basically they're they are either to amend an existing District or overlay District or create a new District um one option for instance is to amend the tri toown smart growth District to increase the maximum number of units that could be built there from 28 I think to 240 not sure how you can do that but anyway that's that's one thing sa mentioned another one would be to Men One The Zone the lake WM District mhm to increase a dense wh wh people going care whum Park like that um to increase the density from there from from mon fan from 8 units to 20 units and go from special permit to by right this just gets better and better I I had I I don't know the community well but I had the same reaction you did I thought that that would be a challenge in most communities mhm um and I've got with the other two options oh one was there's one area that's got two Parcels they thought you could make a new district there uh so there's four options they laid out and so you have some time B want but given the fact that you have to have it approved by the state by December 31 and 20125 I don't think you have a lot of time to debate what option you want to proceed with but that's something I would suggest the board put on the agenda for a future meeting to discuss Annie could we please have that put on our agenda for the next meeting sure so that we are starting our movement on it shortly and may want to see if we can get some of the reg plan agency to be at that meeting to go over it and the and we have three documents in the folder for tonight that are about this right the memo is what I'm referring to yeah but so we have some documents to review um and start putting together our thoughts well this is what we get for daring to be a town that is adjacent to a town that happens to have a train track in it we have a train track shame on us now now we have to well I'll I may have some opinions about this that are less appropriate for uh vociferous at this moment I just want to be sure you're aware that CU my time is not indefinite here it's sometime between now end of June mhm um but I want be sure that's on your radar for I'm not sure we going to have a new director so but I don't think the state delays deadlines because Town had lacks of landage director of course not all right so thank you very much Mr Harris uh we have nothing under board discussions sign we have to sign decision for 728 go to a special permit but we can sign that we don't have to sign now we can just do that after the meeting or does it have to be now I just you don't have to I just want to be sure you I would actually suggest you have a motion to authorize sign because the way it was approved last last meeting the motion was you approve the special permit subject to review of the written decision incorporating condition standard and special conditions to address issues raised in public hearing so I would suggest as part of the meeting it'd be best to have you on record as having reviewed it and motion find that it's it meets the conditions of approval and was I here I wasn't here for this decision was I or was it oh yeah oh yeah okay special permit you left right afterwards oh that one okay yes all right in that case we should um we have our folder for 728 Goodrich and you're looking at the one that is revised go back and see which one it got uploaded today uh I I have something uploaded today a PDF and a Word document is there any difference between those no they're the same one cool I just want to be sure Annie has those something you mentioned ear but if people have heart attack if I have a heart attack She's Got the Word document to fin thank you I sometimes have trouble opening PDFs but not Word documents so mhm and here and just so the boards where I did send this out to the U applicant MH be sure they review it and let me know if there's anything unclear because I have had that happen before where somebody came back and said this says I can't do this and I said yeah can but that's not the way I read it so I would correct it and make sure that everybody's on the same page um all right I would look for a motion uh this is uh it's going to be a motion to accept or I would say motion document for Signature motion to authorize board to sign based on the determination that the written decision reflects the uh addressing issues they raised in the special permanent hearing so move then second moves and seconded all in favor I I very good we but we can physically sign after the meeting right great just now I do see we have a friend in the audience and um sir I not much me I mean there's not a lot of content here left do you hear for anything in for here for anything in specific I just wanted to hear the the status of the NBTA communities okay great wonderful I and the the answer was they wanted to hear the status of the nbea communities I just wanted to make sure we weren't the for we if there was something specific we could move you up further all right excuse me is Glenn yep okay um very good thank you yeah all right minutes approval um for the April 2 second 2024 meeting it's eight pages I'm sorry I'm glad I went through it earlier today more people are reviewing I will be right back [Music] [Music] go [Music] sh [Applause] I'm halfway through and I've seen Dave Rogers four times already he certainly should be a member this gentleman is staying in the meeting so maybe get his name address and vote for him I already have his name and address and and that was going to be one of my public comments um to to ask ask um I I think it was UN undecided but still the last per the last person to leave from the public because one gets elected it's true that's uh I think that's somewhere in the town Charter I'm not going to bother W to find it but I'm sure it's there I'm assuming there's going to be errors cuz I literally did all those minutes in real time just going to leave it in a word doc hey you know what it [Music] exists all right if anyone's ready I would look for a motion on the minutes for our April 22nd 2024 meeting uh motion to accept the minutes from the oh sorry I lost the date uh April 22nd uh 2024 meeting second it's been moved in seconded is there any request for more time to review in that case all in favor I I I great thank you thank you committee reports um let's see how reasonably quick we can be reasonable because we do have to do our jobs lame uh master plan steering committee um we did not have the meeting we were supposed to we had some issues with preparing the final um survey uh we have our meeting this Wednesday okay open space ad hoc committee open space was scheduled to meet last Wednesday we failed to have a quorum so the meeting was not held lunenberg Municipal Building design committee uh ongoing no meetings uh I'm not sure that I can even say anything about the foreseeable future all right agricultural commission ah another unknown future um September so since September we've had two meetings the third meeting we didn't finish and we have not met since that meeting that didn't finish in March so um and I'm hoping to uh get a meeting this Thursday is our regularly scheduled third Thursday we will see um all right thank you Capital planning committee uh the capital planning committee is currently looking at dates to meet to do the planning part of capital planning as opposed to the numerical ranking part of capital planning um so that movement has begun uh Economic Development Committee I was not at the EDC for the same health issues that caused me to Le the meeting before um so I cannot report on that stormwater task force love that name um We are continuing to progress work on the um public Outreach uh getting prepared for that um yeah nothing particularly new to report all right massachusett Regional Planning Commission so we had our meeting last week and it was a doozy just to uh kind of go over what Mr Harris said um earlier about the MBTA communities um everybody who's involved with mrpc is feeling the bush there was a lot of discussion about it um we also I mentioned in our last meeting about Devin the cap being released for their residential and Commercial um which I did not know devans isn't a town it's a community so devans apparently doesn't have the same rights as other towns do so they don't like their school district is in Harvard like they don't have their own School District they not Incorporated I so Devon Enterprise commission deck is what controls devans it's it sits on three towns it's it's it it it covers three different towns and it has everything but a mayor it's basically its own little city MH but according to Devon's representative that they don't get a seat at a lot of the meetings they kind of have to um lean on the towns that they Encompass um which is crazy to think about so um they were talking about the cap being lifted on their development and how it's obviously going to be a struggle not just for devans but also for now you know that their school district again is in Harvard so now Harvard has to deal with more students in their school and how do we support that and so yeah MBTA is is uh is putting the pressure on almost every town that was represented in the meeting um they also spoke on um um MBTA there was something else oh so we talk about 40 BS in lunenberg often and how you know we are struggling to find a place for them that's going to work based on the conditions that are needed apparently our neighbors in in a and I forget the other town that brought it up they are begging for a 40b which I thought was interesting they they said we have the space mark out it's in the right place and for some reason no developers will talk to them about putting a 40b in their town so if you're developer and you want to come to lunenberg maybe consider you might have an easier time getting something in a different local community um so I think that was about it for mrpc I have a followup question please for are you sure it was 40b and not 40R 40b 40b 40b was was specifically said yeah massachusett joint Transportation committee uh we also met last week um it wasn't too much uh lunenberg Centric for that one um it was we talked about the Safe Streets program again and it was updates on uh other towns projects and where they are going to put the money first um they're kind of reorganizing what projects they're hitting based on a needs basis um um so a couple things got switched around but nothing really tied to lunenberg if I can just and mention yeah some communities they can get a 40R created and they will solicit 40b there you go they identify the area they want and try and encourage the developer to come so they can reach the 10% with the friendly 40b that makes sense for air yeah um again for the as we talk 40b this has not been super in the conver in the public discourse as much as it was a couple years ago um but lunenberg is very close to our C to our like not the cap but you have the line and you if you're under that line 10% 10% y then and the reality is we're like 9 point something we are very close to our 10% I think that was before the 2020 census I think we're 8. something oh okay fair I think I thought that was using the anticipated 2020 census but I could be wrong I could very I could also be wrong great so anyway we're not that far off and um I mean there is a 40b project that was brought to the town is still in that broad process but outside of town government at the moment um and we uh but that for example that large project that was discussed uh would have shot us several percentage points Beyond um one thing that Master planning can do is look at ways for the friendly 40 BS and the thing that's nice about friendly 40b is that that being where we try to work with a developer instead of the town just a developer coming in and saying this is what I'm going to do um if is that by working with them we can find solutions that are good for the town because a 40b doesn't have to be an ultra large for example arbitrary example a hyper large apartment building on a very rural road not well equipped for the increase in traffic and I gave you an example where 40 a friendly 40b may be something preferable over a 40R District 40R has minimum dens requirement of 20 unit per acre it may be that in particular area 12 14 unit per acre is what you'd like to see happen and a developer can make that that work with a 5 acre parcel and so you get a 40b that's friendly you work with them to get what you want done it won't qualify as 40R because it wouldn't be enough density but it it meets your objectives and developers objectives um yeah all right so and if I can go back one thing I left out my report I want to bring up just make you aware of and see where how you want to go over this you may recall 274 Prospect Street was approved for storm water permit uh several months ago okay uh that includes there three lots they building two duplexes on one of them the first one they are wanting to make a change in fact they want to pipe the roof drains into the rain garden and so they submitted a request they're supposed to submit it a week ago we got it Friday so it's too late for tonight's agenda they submitted a request for uh modify their storw water permit my question for the board uh since this would have to go to the June 10th meeting what would the board want to see before you could consider that request we you want to have Graves engineering review the proposal and give a report on it yeah I I would be more comfortable with I like Graves looking at things okay because I just want to be sure before I solicit that and um so I'm not asking you would you approve or deny but just what would you want to see occur before have before you even have on the agenda I'd like to express a concern for that initially that was the four duplexes right in the whm area three duplexes mhm three duplexes next to whum uh Prospect Pond not the other Street was right oh that was only three I thought that was three there three okay well regardless I mean the roof roof runoff is is uh direct recharge you can put it right in the ground yeah the rain Gardens are to handle storm water runoff not from roofs so by putting roof into the rain garden and the engineer say that's not a problem that's reason I was thinking Graves Pride should be the one that gives us report says no or yes whatever they they might say but I just get I yeah Brian GS and I have talked about this um u b w be sure if there's anything else you want to have looked at before it was on the agenda I just want to be sure i' addressed that you want DPW look at or other departments or what everyone had um I just I just want to remind um Jeff and I'm sure you'll remember but that the um because of the public beach there that's a U or outstanding resource water or right so they were reduced in the amount of um run off there was an issue there it had to be okay something different orw versus non orw okay so I don't think I'll send this out to Graves tomorrow so and tell them we meeting you're meeting on the 10th and we' like to have the report a week ahead of time if possible thank you sir meeting schedule um all our meetings are at 6 p.m. uh and they're always held here at our lovely Town Hall in the upstairs meeting room unless otherwise specified our upcoming meetings include um May 27th and June 10 is May 27th correct yes it's Memorial meeting May 2 that's why I was I'm like I day next meeting is June 10th next meeting is June 10th and that would mean the meeting following that would be the 244th yes okay and just to clarify the 10th is your last meeting Richard um I might be here on the 24th we'll see okay it depends on how the contract monies get stretched out uh I mentioned I would not be available on to discuss anything on the 19th 20th or 21st but I if the money's allow then I'll be here on the 24th for the board I'll know by the 1st of June great thank you and we love seeing your faces here at Town Hall come learn about planning um yeah ongoing items uh I I will accept anyone saying there's something there they wish to discuss further I don't see anything that we need to at this moment as the night is dragging on but I'm oh Mr Allison please um the water supply Protection District yeah um Mark bur one of the Commissioners um has has reached out to me uh numerous times um he called me actually tonight I wasn't able to speak to him uh I got the message after I got out of the shower he's very interested in in having discussions with us about moving forward um I think that that water supply Protection District is a valuable thing to to have uh our eyeballs on MH um but I just I just wanted to make that known um no I agree um I I know I I know from other emails they're interested in working with us I would like us to actually should have said that here um I would like us to keep moving on that actively and get because the sooner it is done the better and if we are all satisfied with it 3 months before the town's going to vote on anything so much the better y um so I will make a point of keeping that actively on our agenda for discussion and pushing us to make some thoughts um and also reopen public hearings like earlier than typical by months if appropriate because we can do that we don't have to wait until we're right before the town meeting too um okay anything else for ongoing items so what did we have an action plan for the NBTA communities or uh that so we did not have an action plan that was the no we get the update I gave you I gave the update on okay um and uh so what we talk about is putting that on the next meeting's agenda okay and we'll see if we can get someone from the regional planning uh commission to attend that can go over more F further that would be great exent thank you um yeah th most of those topics are still word from word word for word what they've been on here for a long time I understand they're important yes yep um all right now public [Applause] comment good evening Glenn McLoud for 36 Reservoir Road yep I was just here like I yelled out from the back I was just here to get a feel for what your positions were or where where the status was on the MBTA communities it's something I've recently learned about and was just curious again to see what your status was and just the the little feedback I got from you guys response seems like you'd give it a level of uh scrutiny that I would hope that you would um as I try to learn about it what I have done is naturally Googled it and recently a couple of um podcasts I heard from our our old friend Dan Ray from Nightside has interviewed a few people from communities that have actually you know peeled back many layers of uh of this onion if you will and um I found it very interesting and enlightening and I believe it was the most recent one was a gentleman from shury so shury is giving it quite a bit of um push back in fact they were supposed to their representative town meeting was supposed to uh vote on it on the 20th of this month but due to the um you know seeking a lot of um answers to some very difficult questions they've now punted until uh the the board of Selectmen have now punted it to the fall town meeting um they still seem very supportive of it but there's a lot of um members of the community that are not supportive of it or are looking for like I said answers to very difficult questions and they're not not receiving those um and there's just other issues that are concerning like the uh the law that is you know essentially mandating this onto the town they changed it to a a a simple majority to change the bylaw the bylaw as opposed to the 2third so there's answers to those type of questions that you know people like myself would be looking for from the the higher up because being new to this community I've actually watched a lot of the board members including yours if if if not all in the last few years and particularly through all these budget times I just kept hearing a consistent uh tone of uh from whether it was uh un unfunded mandates and the like I I literally found myself asking is is the state for us or are they against us uh and it's and it's just something I'm really interested in looking into further that's about it thank you thank you very oh before you go however what was the name of this podcast or anything I might Dan Ray back back in the day he was on channel 4 well he still is WBZ but he's just on the radio now for years he's been on uh just a radio talk show and he just has various people with various voices and opinions and in fact youve I don't know about this one in particular but um and to be honest I haven't listened to him for years I used I used to work the overnight shift and I would listen because he was you know nights side he was on at night but um so Now podcast makes it so much easier you can listen to it whenever you like but uh so I'm not overly familiar with them as of late but I've just listened to those um and I don't and Al I would ask for you as a board is to really look into this because a lot of these communities I think have literally just I'm trying to get my face ID have have um just kind of rubber stamped it and it's like hey the state says it it's got to be good you know and it's you know again I don't want to go that on the tangent I'm glad to hear that it's off into 20 you know to 25 because there's plenty of time to go over all these other issues that come up but this is not an exclusive list but this is a list of towns that have said no you know an additional option you know there's not just options of accepting it there is options of saying no so those that who have said no or are are pushing back Milton Holden tuxbury Hopkinton Marshfield Wakefield rentham Rockport and shury now tubry was just the other day I want to say it was even the eth it was very recently so I watched their uh town meeting um on YouTube it very revealing it very interesting their state their I'm assuming it's their state rep cuz they gave gave him permission to speak on town meeting floor he spoke very passionately in favor of it two to one they said Noh resoundingly no despite his I can't say it was an impassioned plea I mean I wasn't too impressed but that's it I thank thank you for bringing this up thank you for sharing your opinion and giving us some directions to look as well this has been um you very likely know most of this but this is also for the edification of the people at home watching as well when this was first brought to us the state the legislature passed it and the state was saying hey um we we need you to do this and if you don't you won't be eligible for these two grants paraphrasing but it was you need to do this and if not you won't be eligible for these grants um many communities similar to Lunenburg were then started looking at it and saying well we don't really need those grants we often don't receive them they and the and the problems this could bring to our town um make the money not worth it and that is when the state started coming back hard with oh but the AG will prosecute not that that was stated initially nor conveyed so clearly in the law but they then put the clamps down um no I very much appreciate your input on this and I think one thing we may see is this is a requirement from the state that is getting radically different feelings depending on where where you are uh for exam I was in a discussion on on an online Forum at one point where people are saying come on it's 8 units per acre is the Mandate that's nothing that's a joke that that's not dense it's 15 minimum 15 that's yeah sorry we have we have eight Maxum yeah no you're right the 15 but there was saying 15 new units per acre isn't dense at all and I said well and this was a discussion we were having why I kind of go back it might not be for your town or city in it very that for Place many places that's typical or there's enough of it a town like Lunenburg that doesn't even have its own sewer system and is limited in how much sewage we can produce because we don't have our own and it's not like the sewer sewage plants we're contracted with and feeding into through the other towns is they don't have extra capacity that building some of these is a at this density is radically different and that's the state did pull back some with the more rural communities but no I I appreciate your input cuz we have some hard we we have some thought some hard decisions to make as a town about how we wish to approach this and that's just one of the the fundamental points is that if if it worked for the town if under um review it was beneficial to the town then it's great that's outstanding but if the the the mere concept that you could sit there and say you know what this actually does doesn't work and then they use a heavy-handed approach of the actual government coming in you know using their you know executive the legislative whoever coming after the town is really it's a little scary it's a little scary and I think it's a it's a it's a dangerous or a scary precedent anyway but it's just you know 240 units for a town like um lunenberg is quite an impact and you know even if it was $400,000 in Grants that's nothing compared to you know adding a school or the infrastructure issues it's you know those those are the type of issues that we would need answers for and again listening to the shoes where one they would be looking at 10,000 new units you know because they were they're at 25% I believe they were they might have been dropped down because they are also because we're an adjacent small community so we're you know fortunate in that regard but I think they're a straight up adjacent community so they're whatever whatever their percentage is it was 10,000 units for them that's it's unbelievable yeah well thank you so much very much appreciated thank you and a question Glenn if you if you would if you were to win a right-in campaign for the planning board would you would you be willing to serve of course of course okay I'm going to need some spelling and address later there you go all right um great any other public comment board comment I got a bunch but I'll try to make them quick oh do what you need we're here too late for a burger go ahead true um one I would like to Echo the previous comments about um when I was in the mrpc meeting a lot of towns representative of towns had the same issues um one comment that was made was that people in the state leg legislature are signing these things into action and they haven't actually been to the towns uh where they are suggesting this work needs to be done um it goes back to what I was saying earlier about um the People speaking on the MBTA restrictions or whatever you'd like to call them um a lot of towns have that same kind of mentality where they don't know how these things are going to either get funded or just get complete completed in the time allotted um so I hear that frustration in the mrpc meetings as well so it's not just lunenberg um experiencing that um second point I forgot to mention this in my mrpc update um a couple months ago I had uh spoken about how they were looking if towns needed Municipal help um I just wanted to confirm that admin positions are also available they did a survey I think two people in lunenberg responded I don't know who got the survey but two people responded um for lunenberg so I'm hoping that you know the planning office can get some assistant assistance in that Administration role so Annie doesn't have to do everything um third point which is a question um just for clarity we get a lot of emails um to our town emails from citizens I just want to make sure I've seen emails come through I don't see responses to them I just want to make sure that somebody's responding to them so the trick with a lot of those responses is um we usually shouldn't be like to prent Citizens often send to email to all of us right and when that happens um we generally don't respond back to all of us because we don't want to create the possibility right I get that yeah I I can't tell you for sure if every email that has come in has been responded to I would be very happy to look over that and on a personal level I would very happy happily appreciate a kick in the pants if you think something hasn't been responded to to make sure but also when we receive emails from the public we can absolutely respond as individual board members um and I don't believe it would break any open meeting rules there's no reason it would to then send a note to the rest of the board saying I responded to perfect X so I think that would be a good habit for us to get into for if we are comfy to help ensure that people are getting responses um as long as when you notify the other board members you don't say what you said yeah correct I say that I responded to I responded to this smiley face perfect okay and then my last point was the June 10th meeting I don't think I'm going to be able to be here um but if there's something that we need all four members here for for sure I might be able to come for the first half hour that might change but if there's anything procedural you see just let me know and I'll try to rearrange plans okay uh um on that topic I believe we're going to have to elect our new representative to mrpc I'm assuming nobody else wants to do it for the love of God you are better at that than I am that's fine I'll do it we're having a barbecue next meeting so y'all are missing out good how did mypc get cool since I I I was dragging them down that's what I learned that wasn't on the agenda so put that on the agenda June 10th and yeah okay yeah should okay but I I appreciate you saying that because I was going to turn to you and say so please love it any other board comment concerns well seeing none I'm I'm just going to say I look forward to seeing y'all in a month I love when um uh Monday federal holidays overlap with our meetings because it's a breath of fresh air and uh speaking of a breath of fresh air at our next meeting we will very likely have a new board member um and Excellence maybe maybe the gentleman the mhm yes we've got to pick who we're writing in uh be that if it's going to be Mr Rogers we' all got coord but this gent stay for the entire meeting that's true that's true uh would it be inappropriate to reveal that gentleman's full name again I'm not I didn't hear last time I didn't hear remember first time did yeah no I didn't I didn't catch your name could you so if you come one more time and state it clearly wrote my video first name youe your name and address so you make have for the record yeah Glen with two ends m MCL EOD 436 res Reservoir Road I'm be sure Andy could have the minutes correctly excellent Mr McLoud thank you very much um and for the hoorde of people at home watching us uh for for the elections coming up tomorrow the right in uhor tomorrow isn't it 14th I think it's Saturday I elections on Saturday that was Tuesdays okay my bad my bad um it's uh McLoy MC capital L capital m c capital l e o d just not that the board has any is making any recommendation just letting people know someone who is interest passing along the information just great Mr McLoud thank you so much thank you all right I would entertain a motion to adjourn motion to adour Second Mo seconded all in favor I I I thank you everyone for joining us tonight engage in the master planning process come out Saturday and vote make your voice heard