##VIDEO ID:uUd8ne70POA## hurg okay okie dokie I guess I'll start oh boy okay good evening everybody um welcome to planning board's August 12th meeting 2024 we're here at Town Hall you can also find us on Zoom um and we'll start with the [Music] pledge to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic who one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay um bear with me it's my first time running a meeting so we're going to get through it uh any public comment anything on Zoom believe Richard is still just joining okay okay hi Richard um okay so first off we'll start with public hearings so our public hearings both of them have to be continued tonight um 255 Sunny Hill we don't have is it the correct people here to do 255 Sunny Hill I believe so um yeah if we had one more member it's because I believe this was one of the ones that Glen you were specifically excluded from voting from because you weren't on the board when the matter started okay and then three Lancaster Avenue for the special permit uh we need four voting members here to approve or not approve that so both of those items have to be continued uh and they'll be continued to our next meeting which is August 26th um so moved so moved for for one and two both will that work I'd look to okay second it okay first and second all in favor I I okay perfect so those two public hearings will be moved to August 26th um next up we have uh the decision on 240 Summer Street sorry the two decisions on 240 Summer Street uh one for the site plan approval and one for the storm water permit um Richard did you have anything on this those need be deferred to the next meeting since Mr Allison was not at the hearing okay you think we should we should move them as well yes yes okay then I would look for a motion to move the decisions for the site plan approval and the storm water permit for 240 Summer Street to our next meeting August 26th so moved seconded okay first and second all in favor I I I okay that will be continued to August 26th okay next up we have uh the certificate of completion for 1325 math a just pulling up my file hello hello I'm Greg Roy with dson Roy and if you have any questions I'm happy to take them I didn't know I didn't have a formal presentation this evening but we did get um review comments from graves engineering that seemed fairly innocuous so we're just I think looking for your uh blessing on the ASO plan okay I'm going to read through it real quick I actually had a conversation about you a couple weeks ago oh is it my mom it was it was fine my mom's buying in Shepley Hills iny and so they brought brought up your name I was like I know him yeah yeah yeah small world yeah we we got brought in there on the con construction side of things not we didn't do the designer permitting there yeah mhm that's a great developer lar Larry is a good good guy yeah we really liked working with them he's a good dude okay any questions comments from the board I remember seeing that it was a foot higher what was the reasoning for that I think it was a groundwater related issue did you want to talk to that Danny hi Dan Proctor 1525 massav Hest the owner of 1325 yeah it was basically groundwater um you know obviously wet spring when we started we were able to raise it a foot didn't really change anything as far as we did have leeway with you know slopes and what have you that type of thing so yeah that was basically it you're still under the 38 ft I assume right it's that's correct yeah and we're actually because we went with a steel building in Li of a Wood Construction which was their first plan our roof is less pitch on it so it's lower than what was on the original plan even with that foot raise beautiful y um did we get any feedback from The Building Commissioner is there specifically to 1325 is there any feedback required for a sign off a partial like a phase I believe that this step is the one that precedes his his feedback for signing off on the certificate of occupancy so I to my knowledge there isn't anything from Brian that would need to feed into this decision here very good so the way he explained it to me was the building permit was signed off meaning all the Electrical Plumbing you know that type of thing so then we come to you then when each individual Bay is sold to you know a plumber electrician whatever then they still need to apply to get occupancy because it has to be approved for the use so comes to this board you approve the site work then the next step is that so that was the last time I spoke to you Logan and then I went to see Brian that was how he explained it I see Richard's hand is up yes um what Brian told me is that the uh Bank won't won't release any of the units to be sold or occupied until there's a ceric C ifate completion on the stormw for 1295 massav okay oky dokie didn't you finish the storm water before you started construction I'll let my engineer talk about that yeah the the the asilt Yeah by and large the the major storm water basin was completed the one as you drive in on the on the left um when we when Danny developed the building in the back there were some swailes and other perces that we needed to build those have now been all built and even the ones for 1295 have been built um there's obviously a pad the One Acre Site um that will have its own commercial building on it hasn't been constructed yet because we don't have a a uh a project there yet but um but the storm water for the entire site has been constructed and that's all documented on the on the asbo plan good thank you I don't I can't think of anything else okay in the uh construction complet L review completeness completeness review it mentions like sedimentation and stuff is that something that will'll be taken care of or do we have to I'm sorry which one there just number four yeah we had a couple of wash out spots when a heavy range came came and then the water district was doing their new water line and they had to put in temporary they had to flush the hydrant and that washed out a spot so my guys have been basically patching wash out spots as they happen uh you know with hay and what have you so and that's going to be maintained forever anyhow because it has to be as part of the storm water y okay so we're not signing off on the storm water until the end of construction are we or are we doing that as well tonight to to Richard I guess you're being asked to sign off storm water for 12295 Mass that's and then the uncompleted building is a SE sep that's phase one that's been done and then uh I think it's 1315 1325 right is set phases 2 and three those would be a separate sign off at when whenever that's finished that's correct that's correct yeah so the and and really the only thing that we would need to come back to is is a final site stability essentially all of the infrastructure on the entire site which includes 1315 and 1325 has been constructed the uh the basins and the pipes and all that stuff has been done it's just once the buildings are constructed and the Pavements all and the BMS and things uh directing the storm water flow and um uh the site has been stabilized with grass that's when we would have to come back for for those two paths but that is correct we are asking for $ 12295 this evening which is the large building that's been constructed in the back now I guess a technical question for Richard since I don't think we did two separate storm water permits did we we only did one for the whole site didn't we correct we did one but same as you've done with um anr Lots where they've had three or four Lots done and they did one storm water permit and you did certific completion for one particular lot one particular address the same thing will apply to this commercial operation as well so are we going to ask you for a bond to make sure you finish your construction I hope not I think that's what we've done in previous circumstances like this I hope not to but sorry it's up board rather not to do that given the review from Graves and in fact I would limited to 12295 only I don't think you need a performance guarantee on the rest of it just wanted to dot the eye thank you welcome any other questions no not for me okay so then Richard bu kind of a a vote are we needing on this a motion to issue a certificate of completion for uh 12295 massav regarding the storm water improvements with that portion of the project so moved seconded okay moved and seconded all in favor I I I okay thank you appreciate it good night it does look a lot better than I expected it to thank you all right up next is board discussions um so the first we have is The Advisory Board notification procedures if you need any paper documents for that I have them here but everything is also in the share file Okie do you like papers I do thank you this was essentially um in addition after the whole wrer first refusal process recently with um uh 20 kilber Street in the open space committee um I think Glenn might be able to speak a little bit more to this you were at that meeting right yes yeah 7:31 yeah um and they were just somewhat frustrated with the kind of Disconnect I think that the right of first refusal is ultimately a process that like doesn't happen with the town that much so there's kind of a lack of established procedure about handling it um and this board is one of the boards that's statutorily required um to be notified but advisory offshoot boards um such as the open space committee are not included within that but as a matter of best practice it's um they still want to be notified yep that sums it up and that and that was we had a conversation as well uh Logan and I and that it was clear when we took our vote on the the Kilburn that you know even sitting here it was clear that like why are we voting on this having not even heard from the open space committee You Know M but we were under that the you know at the time my impression was we you know the selectman were going to vote that next night so we you know had to vote I realized now we could have we could have punted but um so that was it was just clear so I think everybody that witnessed what happened quickly figured out that the way we had done it was clearly you know meaning everyone was was not very efficient and didn't really follow logic so I think it's and again with the conversation I had with Logan he he understood he figured out you know and it's and I just think it's important that as soon as we learn of something like this we IM immediately notify open space I mean that's just the logical thing to do uh because we'd be looking for their guidance certainly on on these issues um and I do think you know I I don't know much I'm learning a lot about this chapter 1 program uh 61 program now where you know I don't I don't know how many pieces of property are actually even in town in chapter and it certainly seems you know possible to have a database you know available to us of those pieces of property that are in chapter we can kind of think about them before they even apply to come out so that we're not blindsided um I believe that information is accessible through GIS um Richard may know more uh the does Lun lunberg have a adopted uh open space Recreation plan yeah and we updated it uh 21 I believe and there that Cas there is an image there there should be a t if it's done completely there should be a table in the back of it on pendix that actually list all the parcels under 60 61 61a 61b because under um the state's requirements for open space Recreation plans those have to be inventoried so there should be an appendix that has each of those Parcels listed and I believe you can go to mass mapper I think also will give you that that data layer but I'm not sure you can also ask the assessor and they should be able to SP spit out in a matter of minutes a spreadsheet that lists all the partials by 611 61a 61b so you have each of the classifications so not to not to harp on anybody that because the situation just kind of sucks and everybody knows it but um just before Adam left this was a discussion had at open space and the discussion was kind of like how can we streamline this and the chair at that time almost a year ago volunteered to have a joint meeting with the planning board um on that and Adam I believe was going to write that up in in our policy or something and I think it just fell through the cracks so we've already addressed this um and and also um not blaming anybody pointing any fingers but I don't believe aside from the fact that we did the an anr and that should have been an indicator that they were planning on removing it I don't believe that this board the membership was notified of the first wrer refusal until we saw the agenda for that meeting that was just before we thought the select board was going to vote on it so it's it's not just open space it's it's also this board and I don't know how long it's been on the radar for the select board either it um and and again we're we're we're going through some Growing Pains so no Faults but um it it should be the practice that as soon as the office receives notice of a um uh request for that that it be not that board be notifi notified because the person The Entity requesting to release the property from 61 uh or convert it has to send notice directly to the planning board conservation assessors and select board and typically do by certified mail so that as soon as that gets in that should be scanned and emailed out to the board that notification might ultimately have come back to me um just looking through my notes my first document related to 20 Kilburn was created on um July 10th um but I had down at the very beginning of it that I was like unsure of what type of application it was cuz it wasn't part of the sort of list I'd been working with prior um and I had a call later on in the month like the 17th going over chapter 61b and its relation to that so I think that probably slipped through the cracks on my end at that stage no worries and I appreciate you taking that but um it's been no secret that office has been empty practically since Adam left yeah right so to be expected okay how do properties go into chapter do they have to go through a process so the chapter 61 is the mgl it's chapter 61 of the Mass General law 61 61a and 61b respectively for agriculture forestry and Recreation um and you need to make an application um I'm not sure if you can do it solely at the assessor's office or not um maybe Richard can yes just solely at the assessors yeah it's uh it is that the assessors you submit it assessors then should be put putting in chapter so it's really just an application process so I guess what I was wondering is if there was any vetting of the property prior to it going in I've never known of a uh assessor vetting the property because you're certifying you're using it for that purpose because is it fair to say the town is essentially buying the first right the the the option to have the first right of refusal through the tax no what's they are um the owner is not selling it to the town owner is giv it to town in exchange for a uh lesser assessment right so they pay a sign signicantly less taxes on that property so I mean that's that's part of what I was learning through this this process with Kilburn was that the town has actually you know financially invested into that property in terms of you know lost or uh surrendered tax revenue and it's in some places fair to common for prospective developers to do that because it reduces their holding cost and all they have to do is then lease it out for recreation forestry or agriculture use well just to add some more information there are some income requirements um again it's Mass Journal law from 1800s probably so it's they're very very small but um you you you you you you aren't supposed to if you've got agriculture you're not supposed to let your Fields go fallow they're supposed to be cut um uh and I'll give you an example my family farm is in chapter 61 and 61a and one year somebody told the assessor's office that we didn't cut the hay that year and the assessors was going to declassify us for that year and so I know um I know person owns property in 61a non lunenberg but this person would never Farm property in their life they wouldn't know how do it but what they do is they uh essentially lease it out to a farmer y who comes in and takes hay off of it for the cows yeah that's the majority of people do that in my understanding okay any other thoughts no I will say that the first time I was on the board for a right of first refusal we had almost the same issue but I felt like that one was very rushed you were here for that and I felt like when they came to us with it it was already at like 90 days or something they've been waiting until so we only had a certain amount of time before we could make a decision or however that worked and I felt like this was kind of along the same lines and maybe we could have pushed it out um like Mr M McLoud said um so I think it's important to kind of focus in on what rights we have when it comes to this and what processes we have I would just say that I think most cases um they are rushed even though they don't have to be because you do have 90 or 120 days to act on the uh the notice of conversion and uh usually people simply try and sell quickly and so they'll try to get selectboard put pressure on everybody to act on it quickly as opposed to taking a longer time for uh analysis of it okay well also I think that the that the time frame is is fairly tight if if there is interest um especially if there's no bonified offer on the property because if there's no offer on the property and they want to withdraw it then it has to get a appraised which it takes is is consuming but um even if it even if there is an offer just going through the motions of of taking acquisition of the property is is time consuming it's a lot of leg work um Brandon Kibby has has been uh basically our Allstar in that um on open space um he he he's my go-to person if I have questions so um and on that just note that the um time frame is to act on the notice of conversion that you are going to exercise your right you then have time period of time after that to go through the town meeting process to get uh the U funding to to close on it you can't dragged out forever but you don't have to be able to buy it in that $120 day period you have to be able to EXC give notice that you're exercising your right and then go through the appraisal process and acquisition um we did that here for a site that somebody was going to sell and uh supposed to be for school and then didn't get used for school because school department here decided they couldn't use it that way that's another story okay anything else on uh on The Advisory Board notification procedures no no decisions we have to make on that just okay so we can move on next up we have a legal advisory for the affordable homes act I um suggest this be on the agenda for putting your radar because it changes the through drugging unit Provisions in state law uh and Brian and I had a brief email exchange he's looking at into it the town will need to make some amendments to it zoning bylaw regarding assess dring units including you can't require that a owner live in one and there's a definition on State law for assess dring units as now as well and it basically gives accessory D un that meet the state definition a um uh exemption from zoning subject to reasonable regulation subject to what I'm sorry reasonable regulations thank you and we know the state when they use reasonable regulation they leave it very vague but you can't require special permit that is very clear and what is reasonable is going to be something that the town's going to have to work with Brian gingis and the Town Council come up with a u framework that works okay the reason the reason it's up in front of you now is because the Amendments as I understand amendments to the cessor Dr and state law take effect early February of 2025 so you have some time but not a lot of time before the state U preemption takes effect and I think it's fair to say this is a pretty significant change in zoning like the state's taking a lot of a lot of um local options away from the the local communities with this there's several several um aspects of this that has um significant impact on people's property rights it it it does take away a lot of Lo option of what you how you can regulate it and restrict it and that's it's it's the law that takes effect in Fe effectively takes effect in February and it seems to go hand inand with their um MBTA communities act it's it's the same effect they've done regarding solar regarding agriculture uses regarding education religion religious uses they've there's uses over the years that the state has decided need to be given G the uh Prett much a free reign and they're they're applying the same approach to accessory dring units okay thoughts questions comments sounds like they're still working on how to to explain it to us it's very true yeah that that's that's the thing the legislature will act and then they'll give to a state agency authority to enact regulations and rules and regulations and then you wait 3 months to see what the rules and regulations is going to say okie dokie all right uh if there's nothing else on that then we can move forward um we have a line item in here for ab budding Community notices which they're in our um documents as well if there's anything anybody wanted to discuss about them something they read if not we can move forward and I'll just know there's something new to your agenda I suggested to Logan that I think these should be listed on your agenda so that for the purpose of board members have an opportunity to ask about one or discuss one of sometimes a community will poose something that's close to your town line that may uh strike some interest great I think that's a great idea no comments though okay um so we can move on to committee reports uh so first off is master plan steering committee that's Mr Wilmer he's not here I don't think anybody has anything for that I know they haven't met my husband is on he's a member at large on that committee um they haven't met they haven't been able to get Quorum so I think they mentioned sometime in October they were going to try to meet but not a lot of movement on that um next up is open space we covered that covered that okay you're good uh Municipal Building design committee um we have not met in some time but I did uh catch one of the select meetings and um there was discussion about it so it's still being talked about it's still alive um okay agricultural commission we don't have a representative for that right now correct cuz it was Mr Allison and now I believe that's the case okay so we might have to add that to the next meeting to discuss if we want to have a representative there and if so then who uh for what it's worth um Matt brener is still going to be out for the next meeting but um she'll be back after that so we can kick it to the September the 1 September meeting yeah if that if that works better for you guys yeah I think that'll be fine hopefully we'll have everybody on the board at that meeting um okay Capital planning committee I think is Mr Bruner I think so yep you're not here uh Economic Development Committee that's me they have their uh meet and greet meet lunenberg again this year the second the second annual um at the Low Places Ranch on Goodrich Street on the 26th September 26th at uh 5:30 okay perfect equ um storm water task force also Mr Wilmer believe so yep nobody okay um okay massachusett Regional Planning Commission that's me uh we met last week on Thursday um lots of things happening uh lots of talk about nooba Valley um mrpc is obviously starting to get involved they were talking about how I believe Senator Cronin wrote a letter people have been writing letters Senators have been writing letters about keeping it open um I'm trying to think there was um a public hearing that's what I wanted to say a public hearing on this matter will be held at 6 p.m. on August 15th which is this Thursday I believe uh by the Massachusetts Department of Public Health at the Devin Commerce Center so so if anybody is interested in going to that again that's August 15th at 6:00 p.m. at the Devin's Commerce Center uh the other thing we talked about was nooba Valley was a big deal um we also talked about Devin and I don't I'm probably not going to explain this right but Richard might understand this more than I but um Devin as I mentioned before is it's public works and it's school districts they're they're in shirle AER and Harvard that's right Shirley a and Harvard and so they have a a group of people volunteers that go to meetings and they're the representatives of devans and I guess when they were writing the new law in the state for the Devin housing cap they failed to include that group in voting members or or possibly members that were allowed to come to the meetings um which is kind of a big deal because they basically alienated all the residents of the towns that need to be involved with the process um I'm probably not explaining that accurately um you know I'm sure people can go online again Senators writing letters sending letters about how that's a a mistake but it's currently written into law now um and it does not include the devans community in that process does that make sense kind of yeah so my I so my understanding of devans is is it does it does uh over overlap those three communities and my understanding is that it has everything but a mayor and and it's Devon's Enterprise Commission I think um which is a group that basically oversee that that's yeah and so we been the deck that was excluded correct yes they were excluded is often viewed as a community and it's not it's non municipality is a special district so to speak that overlaps multiple communities correct yes that's true so uh that's pretty much it for the mrpc um nooba Valley and that were the the two big heads um okay and then massachusett joint Transportation committee we have not met we're meeting this week on Wednesday okay uh that's it for committee reports now we have minutes approval got a lot of reading for you guys today okay and we're good to approve minutes with three members voting members yeah it's fine okay um how about how about if if Mr McLoud wasn't wasn't a member for those minutes are is that the case for any of these no the earliest dating of these would be the 12th um I don't know how member absences affects voting on minutes but that is a judgment of the individual member as long as they were a member of the board at the time okay I've always Tak position that if if you weren on the board you at the time you couldn't vote on anything the board uh heard or occurred do I was in my position okay so anybody have any questions we reading through them still there's a bunch the water district one is in there so it's kind of long okay so you had discussion on I think it was three of these that required minor revisions at the last meeting yeah um let me look at that cuz I believe what the case was is that the revisions were there and were good but there were two of them that um couldn't be voted on due to the like Quorum thing for that meeting and one of them got put through well I've got a comment on the July 22nd public hearing um is that for 240 summer or 255 Su Hill continued from 7 it doesn't say on the minutes maybe it does and I'm just not seeing Oh the hearing was to review storm water permit for 255 Sunny Hill um let's see if I can move that information to the header so it's clearer to glance okay well no worries um you just misspell K one of the uh one of the commenters names or didn't finish it do you know which one yeah Ken Ken it's listed as Ken Pat it's Ken Patton oh okay I probably didn't catch that at the uh microphone I don't know if there's one tier two I would assume two Paton Paton I think so sounds like a double te that was the July 22nd meeting yes and that was for the public hearing right that was for okay I just want to make a note for 255 m [Music] all right that should be corrected now wow I don't I don't remember ever seeing a table in minutes you're outdoing yourself thanks I was trying to describe it verbally and then I was like this this isn't going to work that's perfect [Music] for for for for am I the only one still reading I seldom read these anyway don't say that yeah no rush but a I'm ready for whatever anybody wants to make a motion that water district one is long it was a lot of fun to [Music] yeah so I'm find with them I guess I can read it off if that's easier H I can read them off yeah okay all right so I'll accept a motion to approve the minutes for the planning boards June 12th meeting uh July 8th meeting July 22nd meeting as well as the public hearings for 255 Sunny Hill on July 8th and July 22nd as amended um with the scrier error so moved second okay moved in seconded all in favor I I I lovely yay congratulations Logan okay we're moving moving through the minutes um okay next up is our meeting schedule we meet at 6:00 p.m. uh at Town Hall August 26 6th is our next meeting and then September 9th yes Richard did I hear Logan say that Mr Brer would not be at the August 26th meeting um no to my knowledge he will not be um I can quickly double check that but I believe that um he's going to be in surgery then well when we originally I discussed with them back in late June early July about the water supply Protection District we had discussed having the board meeting on July 88th and August 26th discussing the water supply Protection District when all five members could be present if he's not going to be present or all five members won't be present you might wish to put that discussion off to September 9th that would make sense opinions I think that's a great idea and my last meeting will be August 26th no yes I don't think so Mr my my my work with the town ends August 31st dang well one more meeting to give us all the knowledge that you can um and I will have the draft War by Protection District amendments to the extent they were discussed July 8 that's been circulated to everybody so far and um but if reading verify whether not Mr Brandon will be there whether all members will be there August 26 be a good idea okay um is that something we have to make a decision on tonight formally or no I think that's something that uh Logan needs to email out to all the members all five uh to request a confirmation that they will be present on August 26 uh before the agenda gets finalized okay heard sounds good all right uh any public comment not that I can see on Zoom nope okie dokie uh any board comments or concerns what happens after the 26th is there any we shut down M well one thing is before August 26th if Mr Allison could review the um tape and record of the July 22nd hearing that'd be helpful as well as Mr brener if he's present so that everybody can participate in the U everybody but Mr McLoud Clen can participate everybody but GL participate in the U 25 Sun Hill Road okay uh because glint since he was on the board and began can't participate um and my understanding from uh Brian gingis is that the town has worked out a lot uh some work relationship with the regional planning Council Planning Commission to provide some staff support for the planning board uh after August okay okay anybody else nothing um yeah I I'm concerned that so there was discussion about the uh the town manager screening committee uh and they are looking at going with a staffing Staffing Company I believe and I mean basically having mrpc provide us with the planner is kind of also the same idea um is that is that the intention I guess I guess this isn't a question to anybody but the select board but is it the intention to Outsource our entire uh Municipal Employee just Lin the IM the RPC is on an interim basis while they continue to recruit a full-time staff member MH this is like a stop Gap after a stop Gap is is my understanding gotcha and Richard you've been a wonderful stop Gap sorry to yes yes the best do we know of any progress with hiring a full-time employee um I have seen at least one interview conducted I don't know what the full um timeline of that is Brian Jing might know more um but it's it's in the ball is rolling on that how fast I'm I'm not sure the ball has always been rolling not always as fast as everybody expected or wanted yeah and sometimes in backwards maybe but okay anything else good okay uh with that I will accept the motion to adjourn our meeting so moved second okay all in favor i i i and that's it thanks everybody we'll see you on the 26th thank you Richard thanks Richard you're welcome