##VIDEO ID:Qa_oSs8XtTQ## thank you in accordance with the open with requirements of the meeting law please be advised that this special meeting of pack is being recorded and will be uploaded to the L access YouTube after the meeting this meeting is being held in person at the location provided in this notice members of the public are welcome to attend this inessive meeting please note that while an option for remot attend or and all participation is beinged as a courtesy to the public the meeting will not be suspended or terminated with technological problems interrupt theal forcast un lless otherwise required by law members of the public with particular interest in only in specific item on this agenda should make plans for in person versus virtual Z meeting information is analed the agenda lists the only topic which may be discussed at the meeting in Social meeting and others and is that reasonably anticipated check votes may be taken as a result of the discussions that's all I have because the rest is for a general meeting so I do have to do a roll call uh is Faith managed to make it in she's not trying okay she may be trying but we're not see so Steve are you here yes are you yes I am and I am here which makes it the Forum Joe the manager of pack is here and Michael Ray Jeff is here as he was both invited and caed this meeting you're on uh what I have um I worked with Joe on trying to take into account what you told us about the space situation and I put a presentation together because that's the easiest way for me uh to keep track of it Joe's been through it with me um and was happy with it it has been sent I have for you if you would like before a couple okay address SP it's about what we talked about last we maybe taking notes on my phone uh first is I have heard some extraordinary rumors about what's going to happen pasio was the storm uh in the notes we just got it said pasio building is only going to be stable for 10 years what exactly is the condition and a meeting I was at Saturday was a great panic over the food pantry being destroyed by a snowstorm okay what what's exactly is what what did uh what did Chris say is the status of the room we're in now yeah so um I think the we are aware of multiple leaks throughout the building um you guys were relocated to the rear portion of the building AC which in the municipal building design plans um that portion of it we would expect to get demolished um my understanding speaking to Chris is that we have 300 ,000 that was previously approved for Capital funds to replace the section of roof in the middle of the building the area where um the school offices and the pack Studio was um and those funds they're looking to reprogramming them for the front of the building which is the portion of the building that would be preserved a future PL so I don't know if I have a full answer for you um I don't know I'm not aware of the concern by the food pantry about you know snowstorm taking out I'm not aware of the front portion roof of that building being in that dire of a condition um I think the main concerns when I came here last week were related not so much to the roof but to the boiler system um and you know how that impacts the entire building there's a need there for um you know one of two things to happen so bottom line is the boilers uh one of them the primary one is is leaking um and so you know not it's not good when a boiler leaks but it's not you know separate tank as I understand that's the exual boiler system um and so you know the path ahead is to is to is to try an expensive repair or a replacement Nei one of which is in the budget um and so you know I know that speaking with Chris I spoke with him today uh that that you know he's looking to move forward to make sure that the building can be stable but I think in our am I have I answered your question if not you want to just tell me what I'm not answering so it's not actually imminent that we move out of there no it's not imminent it's not imminent um however what Chris stated last week which was alarming uh was that he wasn't very confident that the boiler system would make it through the winter and that was what he had expressed um and and that if that building system you know not operating then you you can't have people in there the question is where does the money come come from for what could be a replac it so you know if we find ourselves in a position where they attempt to repair that doesn't work you know then you're looking at a a potential system replacement um and we need more time for money for so I I would say that while not imminent the situation is dire for sure but besides us the superintendent office is going to be somewhere correct understood that was going to the annex over here which doesn't exist correct and there the food pantry which is used regularly yeah and uh I think there's some staff school programs that in occasion too the school the school committee as I understand it is already looking at vacating the building I don't want to put words in their mouth um but it it there's a the the history and again I I I want to be careful with my wording because I'm aware that when I speak a lot of people watch these meetings and they send me emails when I don't say things correctly you know exact exactly correct um years ago when the school committee TR requested to transfer the TC pasal building um let me step back from that most properties as we know in town are under Caren custody of the school committee they under the Caren custody or the parks Commissioners they're under the Caren Custer of the Conservation Commission and then they're under the car and Custer of the select board generally speaking when we talk about the budget you we say the town side versus the school side what we mean by that is everything dealing with school operations sits on the school side everyone else sits on what we call the town side we're all the town we're all the town but that's generally in common speech what is referred to by that the the TC passels building used to be under the caring custody of the school committee they were responsible for the maintenance upkeep ongoing cost of running the building several years ago they transferred U that they requested to transfer Karen custody to the select board uh and so the maintenance cost the upkeep cost of the building transferred over to select board which meant it's it left the school budget the School portion of the budget and went to the other side of the budget in Practical speech the school committee never really vacated the building uh they continue to use it uh I I don't want to call it a budgeting trick um but it was a mechanism that freed up of cash for the school side of the budget and encumbered funds on the town side of the budget um recent conversations with the school committee with Town Hall and the superintendent have been hey you guys are in this building there's no money coming to the townside for the maintenance and upkeep we're going to need to ask you for some money for the maintenance and upkeep and so I know that in conversation it's hey if we have to provide funds for the upkeeping maintenance then we're going to vacate the building because we don't have the funds to provide so I don't know what those plans are I don't know if that's the first step in a negotiation I have no idea U but I do think that the school committee is aware of the situation over there and they may already be looking at Alternatives Beyond this this year and I please take this back to the ACT spacee question okay well as long as we get what's done the last meeting you said the buildings committee didn't regard Pack's space as critical because no one goes there right uh I don't know if I word it exactly like that but I don't think that people understand we go to everybody's house every day correct every day on TV you turn on the TV look on your phone things everything we provide everybody in the town daily 247 yes we need space to do this ision is going to come floating in from cyberspace so we desperately have a place to produce this for the town and it's not just a matter if we have a nice Suite somewhere it's the service we provide everyone of kids story time the baseball three or four Fanatics so I think having a space is vital and it's going to be more so I think pack in 20 years is going to be one of the most important parts of this time yeah I I think the building committee needs to understand that concept I think the building committee understands the importance of P of the community um I think that when we talk about planning um when I to clarify what I what I may have said previously or what I know I said previously to clarify it what I was speaking to was service windows and that when you have as we thought of you know the new town hall and I know that we're get into this in a moment but if we thought of the new town hall being an administrative building that what we were looking at were service Windows those services that the residents need to engage with in order to conduct business and Pac isn't a service that residents need to engage in in the same way that the planning board or the Board of Health or the uh Conservation Commission is it's it's a little different and then also Pac has unique space requirements that have come out previous that you don't want to be collocated with offices and Cofer machine and phones ringing um and so as I understand your request you you you don't fit well as everyone else fits well with that office type setting it's a different type of building but um but I think we do understand what the request is it's just where does it work and that's why I wanted to meet with you guys tonight to go over your space give you a detailed update on kind of where we're at with this and uh what my concerns are about the path ahead so let me run through this as I said Joe and I uh went through it trying to get from the 2700 Square fet uh that was our original request um down to something that may or may not fit into whatever your plans are because I'm not aware of your plans um so if uh we don't have Faith online so go we don't okay so we can just use this up here if you want maybe I should press one of these buttons how about that one this is just out but anyway the building committee I by that I mean Michael Ray who met with Len himself after last last one way or another not usable within 10 years may this is what we understood from what we were told so that's what we're doing here therefore pack needs to be accommodated somehow within the present commit CL uh they have requested a reduction in requested space like per sentence um it was 2700 that we had asked for um going back as far as I can find in my documents the architect reduced us to 23 but we never discussed or agree to the 23 mon um and we were advised of three options about which we know very little Turkey Hill um when that's rebuilt restored whatever a standalone Place potentially on the land for the gas station which is on Massachusetts Avenue and in the present Town Hall but on the first floor so pack is a town Department it deserves equal consideration it brings excellent value to the town it's self-funded for salaries wages and equipment and provides valuable services to the town uh interim studio is inadequate it limits creativity and it limits our ability to bring in technology we have brought some in but there's other stuff we would need that needs a more permanent installation is not practical presently we have one full-time one part-time staff Each of which would require 100 square foot office and that always was our request was 100 squ office we also have six unb benefited a part-time video operators they can share space because of the way they work but it would require a total of 200 square ft for editing uh or training space it can ED for um this was the DI we were working to having nothing better I started with this and this is the one that comes to somewhere around 27 haven't added these numbers up I hav really enough to do what we did is the blue areas and these are approximate are the best the absolute minimum that Joe and I could come up with uh to have a studio uh that really is not much better than we presently have and we find this disappointing but we're trying to do what we can because we are part of the town so the blue dark blue areas uh you can see have been extracted all the red areas you see there are the quote unquote savings I haven't found out how to get paper to do this would be nice if it could and one other issue and I'm going to bring this up more than once is all those yellow areas of corridors and I will tell you why that's a significant issue and that is when we finish doing the town hall meeting and come out of there at 11:00 at night depends what's contentious on the agenda for that town hall meeting we get our equipment back to our studio which is where we keep it we have to be able to get in the building in a secure way without us accidentally getting access to everything else in the building so we do need the ability to have proper nighttime security the space summary I added this one Joe up to you so Studio 625 personally I think that's an awful number um that's approximately the size of the present piece of carpet that we have in the studio I think and we have a lighting frame in there that's and that would include just enough space to work around that frame okay 6 25 um I don't think other than we saw one petol has a very small Studio it's there in a strange building but every other one would have nothing like this control room 200 square ft uh the one we previously had uh in the plans was controlling three Studios uh the control room doesn't get any smaller basically might get minimally reduced uh two offices for the uh benefited staff the edit and training 200 square ft equipment and that comes to 1425 Square ft um there's absolutely no way we could get even close for having a functioning Studio providing service to the town uh in a th000 square fet so look at that so this way there are no corridors there are no bathrooms there's no reception area and no security late night access so I don't know much about Turkey Hill well be more accurate that I know nothing about to what's a school I understand so but working with Joe we be moving from an old space to an old space we have a security issue down there lots of noise as you had already raised parking can be an issue uh if we're on the school internet and trying to get through to the town internet we know that's a major issue the time uh we do have to have air conditioning that's not an option with the equipment that we have uh we need power which is potentially much more than you find in your average classroom which as far as I can tell is one Outlet per classroom or whatever well the music room has one two three four five six seven eight outlets and it's get two feeds two feeds from two different sources oh really power I trust there the same phase otherwise life could get yes the same phase but when part of the building goes down oh I see one half of the room goes down okay so it's on two different circuits right so what I don't know about Turkey Hill is the ceiling anyone know the ceiling height is same T pass yeah okay that's workable not I prefer h s if we did stand alone this one can get to be a lot of f um we need more space so clearly it has to be a secure building we have to have corridors inside we need bathrooms otherwise people will be running across the road into the town hall to find bathrooms need a reception area um I do I'm not a cost estimator okay I know how to build boods I don't know how to estimate building costs but the size and wild guest at this point would end up being and this is an empty building for us to equip somewhere around the one and a half or two million that's I'm sorry I just needed to put something in I'm sure you have people do a much better job but we also need parking we need Services we need inance we need the Internet we need security for a building that has no one in it from time to time however we desperately try to find some good points it's uh very visible so we could actually put a sign out and so we are packed we are here come and visit us which we get over one of the issues but it's also a lot of very heavy traffic going right by all the time if I can add to this Standalone yeah last fall or a year ago I did that extensive study of you did coming up with a lemoner had bought a a steel structure steel building and outfitted it yeah and so I went and um did play presentation on what it would cost for us to do something similar and his we figured it was just a little over a million at that time to build the building that's the shell yeah the shell and then there was no money to run services in it electricity internet maintenance that kind of stuff um so I can dig that up at some point we did look at that and we did and as a committee we had decided we could take the money we have to build the studio we could build the building and for literally one year we could be there we couldn't do anything because we wouldn't have any new equipment we would just be using old equipment and then after a year we wouldn't have any money to pay people or to pay for services does that make sense yeah it's the running the building the operat right and I had talked to the lemster in the Pittsburgh say were willing to share information gas station so that one to 62 million bullk good for the shell it's not well that would the shell in a little bit of stuff right I mean probably doesn't include hard toop for parking right no so anyway I was trying to get something to cause this kind of discussion so sometimes that's a a good way of doing I don't know how big that parcel of land is um but the the building alone that we would need would obviously be more like three and a half thousand squet with corridors bathrooms reception that kind of thing um plus parking for vehicles so I don't know how that plot is and I can't tell if we could even get a building what and this is sound effects coming from we we have a huge problem an awful lot of work is done in the town hall uh to put it through because even if it's not the FL you're walking on you know it's the select board meeting something it's very contentious and we have 45 people um the parking would be an issue at the town hall with field Power air conditioning as well as the issue again of night security we're in that we can't have by accident access to all the rest of the Town Hall stuff that might still be in there and I don't I like the soundtrack by the way it was all him sometimes yeah this actually is my house which was built in 1856 um however we tried to find some positives we not just trying to shoot things it would be close to some Town conference rooms presum uh which we still feel being close to town conf shs is valuable in particular uh if there are a number of them we can use pure resources uh to video them if they're close and so we can have a videographer on call maybe three comps um and it's also close to the bot of control room um in all of this please remember if there's any plan that moves that belot control grou the one we have there that is non tral there's no no plan okay I just wanted to put that on the table so in fact part of the planning accountant well that number well actually that's the last slide what I don't know at this point is we can have a freefor all discussion we have five minutes um but what I would like to know both from the committee and from the new would this be useful to bring to your building it would do you want me to do that because if so the committee has to approve that I do and what else just so you know please for 4500 sqare foot building Studio man Building inside outside equipment fees was 1.5 million we work $333 per square foot you're using 600 right does that change that number this this is the qu the metal the steel it's not Quan Stu but they just Ste rectangle and you can you can muffle that because have to kinds of soundproof so basic and this doesn't include the operation and I have the great of operation you have an amazing fing system than so at this point your $2 million uh 1.6 to2 million is a relatively accurate figure uh for a stand alone but not including um the yearly cost yeah that the yearly cost in mind is a town cost that's not well but it's still a cost because it becomes a budget item correct because it's another B yes building that requires XY and Z I can look if you wanted me to double check all try to sell us that was uh that wasn't going to worth at all because they had no way of time I it was a nice yes we were going to morage I had the mortgage rates at that point how much it cost PR and stuff like that okay so if I can respond to a couple things and then I want to go back so I I want to be clear that the conversation that we had about Turkey Hill um that you know Turkey Hill is under the Karen custard School Comm commit school committee has not indicated that they're looking to dispose of the building um so it it really is not a viable option today uh and maybe in the future if they decide to dispose the building but that's not that's not within the purview of the missal building design committee and we're not discussing it the the concept of a gas station uh I had mentioned that to you based on a conversation uh that I have with the facility director U but I want to be clear that the building Municipal Building design committee has not made any notion or comment about the former gas station being a good location for you so with that out the way um what I want to kind of clarify and explain and why I wanted to meet you guys is to really get a better understanding of your space needs uh request I think we went over this in pretty good detail um back in a couple years back so part of the role of the Minal building design committee is to vet and push um and to uh and to maximize as much square footage as we can I know that in our previous process with the architect uh they reviewed the plans that were presented for 2700 sare F feet and the reaction was that the opinion was that they thought you could make do with 2300 I'm not saying it's correct I'm not saying it's right U but I am saying that uh that it's what occurred as many other entities and organizations also got their space needs requests cut back um so where we're at now and I just and I want to take this opportunity to explain what we've done and why I'm having this conversation with you now so when we approached when we in the municipal building design committee the way that we have approached this current iteration or this or this uh charge change uh as you know or may know we were previously the TC pasal uh design committee so you know the charge for the TC pasel design committee was looking at 55,000 square feet that is the old primary school and looking at how to you know reprogram what we received was well over 55,000 square feet in space requests um we received a lot of a lot of space requests to the point that we had to really call it back to identify how we can make everything squeeze within 55,000 square feet bottom line is by by utilizing every available square footage of that building um and rehabilitating it we are looking at a price tag mirring $30 million the general consensus is that that is a non-starter that that uh while while while not addressing Town Hall Ritter you know in a scheme of things we know that we only have so much money to borrow we know we only have so much money to work with if we tie 30 million up into uh that building it really starts having a cost application on everything else and the the thought was $30 million isn't going to happen um and so the reprogramming of or the re the new charge of the what was the TC P seals design design committee is now the lomberg municipal building design committee um that we broaden our scope to say let's look at all the buildings not just the TC pasos let's look at Brooks house let's look at Ritter building let's look at Town Hall let's look at 30 School Street uh and let's figure out the best path ahead as it relates to our current and known future needs several members of the community um have expressed the Viewpoint that they want to see a holistic plan that's going to uh figure it all out at once and and I think that we've tried our best with that approach but we also recognize that we need to break some of this off and so the focus on the municipal building design committee has been on the school functions the town functions as priority U and Community functions as as priority as well and and when we say Town functions what I mean by that is what currently happens in Town Hall what currently happens in the Ritter building that that has been prioritized as what we need to solve as well as the school office function uh as well we looked at every single current user so everyone that's currently using all of the buildings and and and we figured out including P so this was the food pantry this was pack this was everything that currently has space in a min building and we came up with three distinctive plans for how we could proceed with with you know how we can March ahead one of those plans basically did not account basically said you know and in those plans we said what are the negatives of all these plans what are the negatives what are the things we need to know more about and one of our iterations we knew the negative was we cannot accommodate pack and that was one of our negatives um and one of our plans and again what we were looking at was does it make sense to we know that all town office functions can't fit in town hall that's where they're currently at we know that we know that a construction like project is going to if it's in a building where people currently are in there's a cost implication to it so if we got to vacate town hall to rehabilitate it and then move everyone back into it there's a cost an additional cost associated with that same thing for R so where we landed was we had three distinctively different ideas of where Town Hall could be um you know and that was you know that was one of the drivers where the school offices were going to be um and what we what we realized at the end of the exercise was that there were good parts of every single one of those plans and bad parts of every single one of those plans and so we created what we call the hybrid plan our our charge or our goal was three ideas and what we came up with was a fourth idea that said it's much better than all the previous three and in this idea what we say is the town hall we you know we considered all the things we learned from TC pasos um you know one of the big part of that project was having Community rooms throughout the building and one of the big cost implications are the wires that come from the pack Studio that need to Traverse the building that that is a very high cost the cost of all the cabling and everything else that that that is utilized to get back to your control room that was an exorbitant I don't remember exactly what it was off the top of my head U but it was a high cost and and so one of the things that we considered was how do we reduce this cost and that is partially why the town hall became so appealing to be a meeting house um because you already have a control room there and so if we're looking at bringing meetings into that room you already have the second floor wired for a meeting so when we start talking about three rooms in the first floor we're we're not talking about large ones one of those rooms would be directly below the pat studio so I mean you know so part of this was thinking about if wires and cabling is is pricey and Town Hall could work uh for Meeting House purposes because it's a control room short distance to get to all the different rooms lower cost um to build so that was what we settled on for the town hall was a meeting house and that we would turn it into four meeting rooms um and and it also becomes somewh of a futureproof plan that in the the future at because no real other offices would be there that in the future if the town grows that we have space that we could convert into offices and so it could Pro it could allow us or enable us in the future to say all right we know that we're going to have building needs but it buys us more time a lot more time uh and so that is what became really appealing about town hall and then also New England uh old you know initial before there were town halls there were meeting houses and so it kind of goes back to the original Roots we looked at the Ritter building for the school department and uh and identified that that would be a good location for the school uh district offices for a variety of reasons uh their space needs requests are about 3,000 square feet or so for their district offices and I believe part of the Ace Program the Ace Program maybe a little bigger the Ace Program is 18 through 22 year olds who you know technically have finished high school but still need additional Services um so it's life skills training other things there's a need for you know washer and dryer there's a need for kitchenet type things uh and then also the person who runs that program has to be collocated with the program and it's part of the District staff uh and they have like a dual function so it just made sense that we already have a staff break room in the basement of the Ritter with a kitchenet in it um we have some rooms down there already where the veterans coordinator is where I believe the state rep has an office over there so it it made sense that the basement and and it used to be the the teen you know room when it was a library so it kind of made sense that the basement and the rest of the building based on the square footage we have would work well for district offices and provide them with the level of future proofing as well um that you have additional square footage there that could be used at a future Point uh without the need for there to be a new building and then we took all the current functions in Ritter building all the current functions in town hall and we program them into a new town hall and we call it Annex but it's really the new town hall um and this would be administrative offices without conference rooms so when we you know when you're looking at the square footage cost of a of a room it's still the square footage cost of a room before you start adding all the furniture so when you're building thousands of square feet for empty rooms they're very costly and so part of the Vision was that the new town hall would not have any meeting rooms in that it would just be administrative offices and so for Mr Mrs Joe public when they want to come engage with any Town function there is one building that is accessible everyone gets to walk in the front door and and it would be that building um and two fours and and all Town basic functions or current offices that are in town hall Ritter would be there and then you have school district off offices right next door or you know we haven't decided they're going to be connected the architectural team we're working with now we'll figure that out but so you have one place to go for your school needs your town needs it's One-Stop shop essentially which is what the goal was pack the vision for pack was to keep you in place now the the the vision that we have for TC pasos is to turn it into a community um building where we would keep the basically the whole front portion of the building and everything in the middle and rear would get torn down so the front portion of the building to accommodate the gym which is used by multiple entities the cafeteria which is used by multiple entities and then the front left wing we identify would be a location for a pack studio and that would also be the location for town clerk storage um and then we also have additional room for future offices or additional office space as well so in this Vision this was the plane and so we're going to move move forward on the front portion of it the first portion of it which is the town hall Ritter um and and New Town Hall portion of it and the plan was to leave TC paal as is there's a secondary thing that's happened which is the school committee is working on you know what needs to happen to Turkey Hill to keep it alive for another you know 30 40 50 years so what are the Building Systems what are the E now that doesn't mean that what they're working working on is is is necessarily to keep it a school for the next 50 years but we've recognized that when the school committee transferred Karen custody of TC pasos to the select board the roof was 38 years old and eight years pass its lifespan the borderless system was well past its lifespan a lot of the building systems were well past their lifespan uh similarly when 30 School Street was transferred over to the caring custody of the select board it was in a similar situation um where it was having water damage a lot of other issues and what we've learned in both the um or primary school and NTC pasos is that when the school committee decides to stop investing in our most expensive assets which are our buildings that when they decide to stop investing in them because they have a vision for a future school or whatever the vision may be and then these buildings get transferred over to the Caren cus the select board that we take 10 plus years to figure out what we're going to do with these and we don't have 10 years to figure it out that in those 10 years the buildings are just deteriorating to the point that they become unusable and so the conversation was had with the school committee to say don't let Turkey Hill get to the same condition that you let TC pasos and the old Primary School get to replace the roof if it needs to get replaced upgrade the Building Systems they need up they need to get upgraded replace the board they need to get replaced because if we take if if the select board takes care in custody of a building that doesn't need a new roof immediately that doesn't need a new boiler immediately that doesn't have lead in the water we have more time to figure out how to best maximize this building and that's what we're up against is is lack of time with TC pasos lack of time with old Turkey Hill with old primary so the school committee right now is actively it was in their current they're out to bid right now to get a specialist on board to look at all their Building Systems to figure out what's going to be needed to get them all up and running that's going to then trigger for that they have $275,000 for that ready yes so what the what's going to come at the end of that is a lot of data of what is it going to cost if we want to keep this building going for another 50 years 40 years 30 years 20 years what is it going to cost not again no programming changes we're not trying to relocate any classrooms not trying to make the school anything dealing with academics per se it's just keep the building working what they're going to come out on the back end of that is a dollar amount and from that dollar amount they're going to decide if they want to stay in place and move to invest the money in that building or if they're going to relocate and build a new school the municipal building design committee has expressed that if we have knowledge and data of what's needed for that building to be operable then we can pull the trigger on as a town immediately and if the school committee as part of their plan for a new school also at the same time they're asking for that money to fix the new to buy the build the new school that they have a plan for the disposition of the old school and whatever monies are needed for that too that that we're doing this at the same time so in other words we're not building a new school and then saying hey Town figure out where the next million is coming from that we're that it's one request that says this is how we're disposing of this but maybe they want to tear it down maybe they want to but if that building is turned over to the municipal building design committee or Karen cus the select board that building is much better for all those Community functions I just mentioned to you that would happen at TC pasos it's just a much better location for it and it could accommodate all those things we had to say no to while we were looking at that building the the first time which was expansion of the boys and girls club uh the before school after school program right so so there is capacity there in that space but there's a question mark it's really tied to what the school committee does so what we're trying to work on is a portion we know already and we know that this other portion is lingering what makes the situation so dire or urgent is that we were banking that we had at least a couple more years for the school school committee to get all this data and figure things out um but if this building goes offline before then there's going to be an impact on everyone now you know a food pantry while I support the food pantry we got to house it you know food pantry doesn't pay any rent um you know they're not we're not receiving $1 for the food pantry if they had to relocate they could reasonably be relocated um you know the the real issue is you guys the town Department that would remain and that you would be impacted with that building off one pay $66,000 say again we pay $6,000 you do we we know yeah yeah I'm aware that there's a small transfer of money that helps offset some of the maintenance costs so in the path so in the path ahead this is this is where we're at so the current plan of the municipal building design was to leave you guys there for at least another year or two figure this out with the school committee re-engage once they have more data and we figure out the plan ahead what I think is that the situation may be more dire than that we may not have that kind of time and so what I want to figure out is how do we incorporate you into the plans for this Ritter New Town Hall anex my understanding is that you're not going to work inside of the building per se um that you really need either a standalone structure or you need what is essentially an Annex on an Annex um you need to have kind of a separate building so I have asked you mean Annex on an Annex in the on the r lot or the town hall lot on the r lot there's no space in the town hall no I didn't think there was yeah so the Ritter lot when we talk about the Ritter lot we also were talking about the 30 School Street lot because in the center of town when you any building in the center of town can have parking within half a mile so the parking does not need to be located on the lot so we can use 30 School Street for parking purposes and we are going to need 30 School Street for parking calculation so I've already asked the architect after my initial read of you guys last week and said hey there might you know we might need to figure out how to program um pack Studio on this property as well and that was not in our initial thought um but we are going to ask for it as a standalone and separate cost um because we as we try to piece these numbers together we need to know what's affordable uh and I also mentioned to you last week that many members of the community and I'm not saying it's a vocal majority or I don't even have a calculation of what percentage of the Town it is but there has been a Not So Silent um group of people that have been clear that they do not want any tax dollar spit building tax studiio space so it is a little more sensitive than I think that maybe the members of this committee think it may be but it is a little sensitive of how much money we're spending and it's because the public sees that you have almost a million dollars and and they want to see that money just about fully expended as part of any kind of building project so what I think the plan ahead is is we're moving forward with an architectural team right now to come up with renderings and and four plans for what all of this will look like you you're asking for 2700 square feet if you do not have bathrooms you're really asking for 4500 square feet uh in my view it's significantly that wasn't again 45 is what the number I had that I was working with as a standalone building what it would cost we came up with that oh I'm sorry so don't you yeah so when you're talking 2700 square feet you have to account for bath rooms utility closet you need to account for it's a standalone building you're have mechanical rooms7 included the two green rooms which could be bathroom Green Room combinations bathrooms itself could be thought so what what I will take back to the committee is I will take the floor plan you've already presented and if you can well unless you're using it just for space well if you can email this to me to be helpful because what I can do is I can email this to the architect and say this is what we need to account for as well how they're going to do it is is again because of your need to not be near phones ringing and copy machines and people talking and and all the loud stuff that happens in an office building um that how I would see this is that you know if you think that this is Ritter building and the new if this is Main Street right here and this is existing rter building the new town hall is going to be right next to it um and that is the plan and it can be closer to the road the setback requirements aren't as great so it'll be much closer to the road likely but it's going to be right next to it the question is the pack Studio can we account for pack studio in this space as well do we do a little add-on here do we do an add-on there or can the architect tell us hey if you just do a standalone building here's what it's going to look like and then you cut and paste and see where that fits at does it fit further in 30 School Street does it fit at 925 massab but at least we can come up with a floor plan for what a standalone building would look like but I think in part that in order to incorporate you into these plans it is essentially Standalone build it may be connected but because of your soundproofing needs um it's really isolated itself um the annex would be two floors correct the new town hall would be two fls so some of the studio I'm just please trying to get the studio itself has to be tall it's much better is you do much better but the rest of the studio be St yeah where production is on first floor with the offices control room needs to be on the same Flo right but you know what I mean but certain it's divisible in fact the other point I was about to make was that aspect ratio is born of TC paos that's three classroom correct correct you know if it ended up being a square space say if you're going to talk to The Architects it could be the studio you know um H cafeteria is one tall room the rest of the building is two floors whether the studio part is one big room but the rest of it is so instead of having a big long thing you have a smaller footprint but you're also saying chop off part of the long one and put well the other thing that could happen also is Standalone could be the studio but the offices could be part of the end the studio has to have interesting well I'm do you know what I mean so what ends up happening is you're like putting on I don't want to say a shed but you're putting on a shed at least make it a h you know what I mean on building which cost a lot less because if the opposes reduction are in the building now it's a smaller footprint you have two floors the plumbing the wiring the bathrooms it whether you extend it the 10 you know what I mean it costs less than having a completely separate all right so if you're going to be talking to the Architects please ask them to be creative the studio the actual Studio has to be very well soundproofed if it shares a wall with the anx that wall has to have phenomenal soundproofing you know um and vibration stuff and they have stuff to do that they do but if the office office is a part of the annex now you have that buffer there and you're not spending money on two different things but half of something all right so I'm the most cost effective would be for you not to have a standalone building and for the AR creative to share Building Systems that would be the most cost effective meaning same Boiler Room controls all right um same electrical room controls all that's that's where the money in products really comes in at is is are those areas and so ideally you know where we we will see how well we can make this work however um we have a pretty rigid budget here of that we have self-imposed of what we know we need cost to be under we need everything to come in our $5 million and in the discussion of the pack component we know is A2 to three million ad and then we were just advised that the capital plan kind of made some modifications and we already have a new million dollar ad um um so what we want is we don't want to find ourselves in a position where nothing happens because there's components of it that people really hate and we already know that there's components that that anything with pack that some of members of the public just are not going to agree the project period because of the pat component and so you know there has to be some between now and and the spring or whenever we get a rendering here um what what I plan on doing is keeping you guys part of the loop I don't think it you need to come to our meeting I think I can take the data if you email it to me share it with the architect I've already asked for Alternatives we we've asked in this process for Alternatives we want to see multiple options um so that way we can make some modifications and changes but the pack is the new app because it was not part of this Vision it was not part of our discussions when we went up to bid this is us being 11th hour with our Architects saying by the way can you also program for this now we did give all everyone who B on the RFP a detailed space needs analysis in which Pat was part of it so we've already told them 2,300 square feet in terms of when they bu on the project that that was something we need to program for uh and we again plan to call it back but we gave them the full programming for TC pasos and said this is what we're trying to program for knowing that several of that those things would be cut back just so that way in my view it provides provided us with this kind of flexibility at this stage well thank you for keeping back alive in that sense in front um it's 6:25 or there about we need to be done by 6:30 um what do we want to do at this point you're saying H you don't you just need the presentation you don't need me I think that it would be helpful if you give me the presentation so I can pour this to the architectural team right away would that be include them understanding that where that came from in Safar it was but I can do that for you I just don't want we keep getting these second order discussions going on with all due respect you know sometime you know get Joe and me involved directly with the Architects to explain what we can and can't do next you can't so where we're at in terms of process is we are we we are not looking for the architect to meet with any User Group okay themselves that we went through an exhaustive process to the $275,000 last time doing that it was very costly and so this time we're taking all the data and re and re and repackaging Essen so I think what would be helpful is if we have the data and and you know the team that we're working with it include Structural Engineers hbac Engineers you know the Architects themselves we have cost estimators um RC electrical engineers Plumbing Engineers so we're work it's an engineering team and it's an architectural team and it's an estimating team and and so what we're expecting is we're expecting the first renderings to come they're moving now so if I get this to them tomorrow they might have something potentially cause some serious problems as well that because of what p and I understood from the last week was doing everything we could to get down to uh 1425 is the best we managed and that still would impact our ability to do our job um the number that they are going to be working with I'm taking from you right now is 2300 not the 27 so I I think that what I of the draw us two I know and you're using exist in classrooms I think that what I will provide to them is the full data of what this plan is that shows basically 3,000 SP sign up um I'm G to suggest when you send that to him that redesign slides to say as fitted into TCP 3 classroom on every slot okay so when they see it they go oh this is the uh space minimum sh reductions add spitted into the TC paos using three classrooms now because we've already given them all those previous plans they they they've already seen the plans no but in their mind as they're going oh we need this rectangular thing no it can be they know that it was the limits of the existing walls is how we previously move to a Jour okay we're trying to run it all right thank you thank you thank you