all right good evening I'd like to call this meeting of the lunenberg school committee to order it is wed oops I'm not on sorry I'll try again um I'd like to call this meeting of the lunenberg school committee to order it is Wednesday March 20th we are meeting at the middle school collaborative room d132 and we welcome you in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being broadcast at a later date over the lunenberg public access Channel if you wish to join us via Zoom the meeting ID is 865 3049 4155 this meeting will be broadcast at a later date to the local access cable channel and on the public access ACC Facebook page and will be found on the lunenberg access YouTube channel within 24 hours after the meeting the agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other item other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law I would ask that that you stand to pledge the flag I pled algi to the flag flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible and justice for all all right our first topic um this evening is public comment the school committee welcomes comments from the public comments addressing topics under the scope and authority of the school committee are welcome please remember this is public comment not discussion and limit your comments to three minutes each public comment section has a maximum of 10 minutes however that can be waved if necessary comments about individual students are prohibited by state and federal law so if there are public comments I would ask anyone to step forward please remember that as part of the public hearing you will be able to comment as well seeing no oh we do see public comment okay hi hi and you just need to state your name and address sh M 139 Cove Road so this is interesting because it's the end of March and the first school committee meeting I came to this year was at the end of January and I have learned so much about Public Finance and the most important takeaway is that if you're going to have a budget that gives the same Services you gave last year the only way that can happen is if you cut some places because something is always going to go up more than 2.5% and not many things are going to go down more than 2.5% this seems really Elemental but it's just it's just become so so clear um you guys all know this so I'm not saying this for you what that means is that there's always going to be a problem in some way or another and this year obviously there's a really big problem and you guys have worked really hard to address that and the town is working with you to help with that the problem is that the level service minus Sesser budget is better than nothing and I think you guys all know what I mean by that it's better than losing 19 positions and yet that budget will leave leave the school in a bad place over the next few years it's very clear from projections even optimistic projections that that will happen you're still cutting a social worker and a guidance counselor it's it's things are not okay and I understand that the way that town government works and politics and all that is complicated and the timing is difficult but I felt it to be very important to say that even if there is an override for a level service minus s budget that's going to leave the schools in a difficult position over the next few years and if there's a way to mitigate that by getting an actual level Services budget that that's something that um I would be 15 seconds thank you anyone else can I make a brief comment you can I am really sorry I went to town hall and apparently there was no meeting there so I raced over here I probably broke the speed limit uh so I'm really sorry I'm kind of a done please forgive me stranger things have happened Tony you w forgive can I make a comment yeah of course so um I wanted to speak briefly on the discussions that occurred at last night's select board meeting and I know that there will be um a very deep discussions involving a lot of numbers over the course of this evening about the budget um but i' I'd like to offer some highlevel comments and just sort of share my my high level opinion on on what occurred uh first of all I want to thanks Lan eny uh for her creative thinking and getting involved and making suggestions that spurred a series of negotiations over the last couple of weeks um I think that negotiating is a good thing uh even if the outcome is not ideally you know not what we had ideally hoped to land on um and and I also want to thank the members of the negotiating team the the chair the superintendent the town manager the the chair of the select board um that being said uh I am not satisfied with the outcome of that negotiation um I think there are serious issues with it particularly with the one-time funding in arpa money that goes to fund things like Chromebooks which are need to be funded every year and that will put us further and further behind the eightball we're going to behind the behind the eightball next year anyway we already know that we're looking at busing issues and collective bargaining and um and uh uh utilities and a number of other issues that are already clearly going to be increases in in the coming year and and this compromise is just going to put us further back um and we'll talk a little bit about that in more detail later on um I'm also extremely uncomfortable with the consiliary uh nature of the discussion last night um I feel like this is just a continuation of the gamesmanship that began in early February with the town manager's initial proposed budget um um and and this is just a continuation of that aside from the one-time uh uh money that puts us behind the eightball next year we were $40,000 away from the superintendent's needs based budget uh $40,000 is a rounding error on the town budget there's clearly money available just in local receipts off the top of my head but there are several other areas and for whatever reason the town manager couldn't find her way to getting us to that number and that's just another example of the gamesmanship that is continuing in this town and so for that reason I I just want to lay it flat out I'm not in favor of where we landed uh and I hope the rest of the committee members will follow me in uh in that reasoning over the course of the night tonight thank you okay this brazowski um hi uh I wanted to say um thank you to the supporters and the parents and the school supporters who've been engaged in the budget process one of the key indicators in a Student Success in school is Parental involvement and I truly believe one of the keys to a district success is the same thing passionate caring parents who want the best for their children and passionate caring citizens who want the best for their community so through your questions and examinations and your suggestions and your engagement in the process you've helped immensely through your activism your many emails your public comments the many hours of meetings uh your hard work you've helped the original budget the town manager gave us was a poultry 2.94% and we were told not to expect anymore I truly believe that the public engagement in the process you guys is what led us to the higher budget it's not ideal it's still less than our bare minimum budget but the cuts are less deep and the student will face a less dire situation next year regardless of the results of the override if the override fails because of the public outcry over the meager inadequate budget we were given but we're not done yet and I'm going to say this every meeting from now until then we need you to go to town meeting Saturday May 4th 9:00 a.m. it's going to last a few hours so call a babysitter call your grandparents call in reinforcements because we need you to show up that day and vote we should have babysitting available as well working on it okay parents don't often go to town meeting it's a pain it's usually a day full of sports and dance and family activities and no one wants to spend the day trapped in a school auditorium together but we need to show up we need you to show up every vote is going to count parents have a hard time being involved in a lot of things in town and that shows especially in things like the budget where everything else is prioritized over the school's needs Saturday May 4th is a day when you guys can make a difference a big difference so I'm asking you please to put it in your calendar now if you haven't make a plan for you and all the voters in your household to please come to town meeting I still don't think we're done I think we have more work to do in the future in regards to school funding and what we as a town and a community value and I think there's a lot of work to be done in regards to Future planning of finances on the town side this should never have been a school only crisis but right now the call to action is go to town meeting Saturday May 4th 9:00 a.m. right here at the high school thank you okay thank you Laura anyone else with comments okay then we're going to continue on to the chair's report needless to say the last few weeks have been spent working with others to procure the necessary funding for the needs-based budget and we'll talk more about that during the budget discussion I do want to take a moment to suggest that anyone listening contact your Alle legislators and push for a change in Chapter 70 funding the secretary of education has indicated he is open to a legislative move in this area school districts like ours fit in a category called hold harmless currently that means that our Chapter 70 funding increases by $60 a student that is not keeping up with District needs across the state being held harmless is in fact quite harmful um masc is holding the annual day on the hill on Monday May 6th school funding is the topic for the day I'm planning on going I have never attended one of these but I am planning on attending if anyone else would like to come along let me know um the select board is holding a special meeting on Tuesday March 26th to discuss the nuts and bolts of the override Town Council will be in attendance um if we have three parents uh three parents three members committed to attending we will make it a joint meeting so if that is the case it is Tuesday March 26th at um 7 o'clock I I cannot attend is that the day of the Town caucus no the caucus is the 25th that I I asked the um we tried to find another date that week to work because I can't do Tuesday but um unfortunately Ely that was the only one that was going to work um so I want to make sure the school committee is represented at that meeting so do we have representation on that Tuesday night I'm asking I can go you can go thank you Laura someone else should go I am doing medical fasting that day okay so if I go oh yeah I will be really mean we don't need you to be mean I I I will have gone more than uh like 36 hours without food at maybe maybe you can turn on the um I can go the online I I mean if if I absolutely have to go no you don't absolutely have to it's just if I know there were three of us going I will post it as a joint meeting you're able to go Brian thank you so um Mr beardmore when you have a chance just let me know and if there's three of you going I'll post it as a joint meeting if not then it doesn't need to be posted but I will tell um the chair the select board what who to expect I will likely go you will likely go okay then we will post that thank you thank you all right so we will continue on um review and approve minutes regular session we don't have I didn't say I didn't think I saw them but then again it could be me okay um and there are warrant um in the total of $3,117 if anyone has questions regarding those please let us know and the superintendent report and I'll be brief as well um an update kindergarten enrollment um for next school year currently at 92 reminder that extended day registration uh for the summer program opens on April 22nd the before and after school program for next school year opens May 1st and the Early Learning Center registration will open on May 20th a few reminders on uh upcoming dates we do uh go before the finance committee tomorrow evening uh to review whatever budget um the school committee uh puts forward um this evening and I'm sure that there will be questions relative to the other versions of the budget as well um we did attend the finance committee meeting last Thursday um I was accompanied by uh Juliana hansam director of special services and Eric Kee our facilities director um because they are not available tomorrow evening um and we wanted to provide the finance committee an opportunity to ask um particular questions in those areas so we'll be attending part two tomorrow evening um upcoming school committee meetings uh the next school committee meeting the next scheduled regularly scheduled meeting um after March 26th uh is April 3rd that would be a hybrid meeting via Zoom from town hall at 6:30 and we're off cycle in the month of April due to the April vacation week the third Wednesday would fall during vacation week so um the second meeting in April is actually going to be one week later on April 10th that will be a hybrid meeting via Zoom from the middle high school again at 6:30 thank you very much um the 92 in kindergarten is that about where we generally fall at this time of the year yeah okay um stud student representative is a student representative online I don't think so I don't think so I think she would have sung out by now no not seeing anybody okay then we'll continue on um old business our action item is the FY 25 recommended budget okay before we start the budget conversation I just want to rund down how all of this how that number changed and how we ended up in this circumstance in my chair's report on the 6th of March I commented that we had met with the town manager looking to try and get more money and that she had told us maybe 40,000 at that point point from New Growth and then the next evening at the select board meeting which would have been the 7th of March um she mentioned she had 230,000 she thought so um and that evening also the select board had said they would put the override on the ballot then um we met again with the select um with the chair of the select board and with the town manager and tried to find additional funds now the reason for doing this is a 2.97 budget is totally devastating we had to try and get more funds so that's what we did and so the idea of the APPA funds being in use that gave us some for the items that we had submitted for earmarks we used ARA funds for those and um yesterday morning I received a call from Margaret Scarsdale that the ear marks weren't coming and maybe we might get 30,000 out of the 146,000 we had requested so obviously that wasn't going to work so um so then what we had worked on was to come up with a way to fund the budget further we pushed for funds from pavement management we're offed 50 we tried to get more we did not we were not successful um they took the when we have to vote on this evening our requests for the sidewalks that was $101,000 through oper funding that we had asked for um they offered to take that those proper funds and put them towards the school budget and then take the $101,000 out of chapter 90 funds that we know sit quite high how high um $1.9 million 98 oh 98 oh well it's going to be 97 now then because we going to take those um sidewalks out um out of that there was very it was very difficult to try I asked about um we got down to tiny little things in lines how about if we took money from this how about if we took money from that and we didn't get any further was there an answer given for the pavement management that they didn't want to go below the um recurring funding so that funding um they add $50,000 to pavment management each year so they want to get it up to a million it is currently with the 50,000 from this year it would have been 650,000 and they said they did not want to go backwards in that program even though they have the surplus of the how many million 1.8 I guess 98 1.9 so almost $2 million in chapter 90 money okay which they have no plan for and we're scringy this is how the town is choosing that's that's how that's how that went so um we brought forward the two ear marks to go out of arpa funds we were suggesting doing like the heating stuff but it was suggested to use it for Chromebooks now I know that's a reoccurring thing and I didn't want to use that either but the fact of the matter is we had used Sesser funds for Chromebooks correct correct correct so we're just doing the same wrong thing one more time so I it's not a good way to look at it but it was better than doing other things we didn't want technically you could fund like a social worker out of those Essa funds I didn't want to do that absolutely not um I'm out of the OPA fund sorry I'm getting all these programs confused so we ended up with the Chromebooks which truth be told the heating costs um next year hopefully won't be there as much and we can pay the Chromebooks out of that I I think we'll be okay with the Chromebooks but the fact of the matter is it got us to where I felt like we were treading water it's not where we're supposed to be and it's not where we could have been with additional help from the pavement management I agree but it was the best I could negotiate we felt that was as far as we could go with that it's better than we were originally told it's better than where we were origin told we're getting nothing additional correct so we did get some additional funding to make it almost up to the needs based level so so that's where that budget came from now we were um Dr bernham and I I were both at the selectboard meeting last night we had no intention on talking and we got pulled into that so what I would say was I was consolatory in that I was happy to get these funds because should the override not pass and we are stuck with 2.94 I don't know what we would do I mean it it would be devastating this is still bad but it's not as bad as the other and I did not make that point CL strongly enough last night I will make that point at fincom and I will send something to the select board to make that point that that this is not wonderful but this is better than the way we were before so now that I have said my piece yes so in total how much additional funding did you and Dr Burnham secure like what's the dollar all but 64,000 of the bare minimum 572,000 and this is out of the the 5 point whatever budget that one out of the 5.4 budget we the needs based she so we secured 22,6 40 in arpa money I I I'm not going to be able to do the adding what's do you know what the total is or have you not added up I haven't added up okay I got I got it I'll I'll do the add while we're talking about actually we can go to the comparison slide yeah it's [Music] there it's all but the 64 right so it is all but 64,8 14 out of the oh that number isn't there 500 something got it while we're looking at the number can I ask you guys another question sure thing and I don't want Dr Bon to come in I just want if you could come in okay um do you feel like the people on the other side are engaging in this process in good faith some of them definitely some of them perhaps not as much as they could I I it's very hard to gauge could we I don't understand why we couldn't have gotten more money from pavement management I'm going to be honest with you I don't understand that um and um um I know that so I I don't know how to go about maybe maybe instead of answering that question here's my concern we were told this is the final drop dead number then we were given more money yes and then we had a very wise and creative benefactor yes who helped us out yes then we got some a little bit more money yes and it seems like we keep getting more and more money after we've been told this is it and the only thing that that does is it breeds uncertainty and so if it's intentional then I'm concerned that the other side is not engaging Us in good faith if it is inadvertent because they are in a similar bind where their numbers change on a daily basis then I get it but it just means that we need to be more Vigilant on both sides and engaging in transparent good faith communication the um New Growth money yeah that was done in good faith absolutely okay that I have no question she didn't want to commit to a final number till it was certified that's that that makes total sense but like the the arpa fund money it came from an someone's idea and then once we got that idea those monies came quickly yes Mr L I think trying to view it from the town manager side I I I sense that she had her preliminary budget early on then saw our needs based budget saw how far we are and tried to find ways and it's that that whole idea that it's a budget season it's a long period of time where you're looking at numbers coming in whether it's insurance or um Heating and electrical and stuff like that as the numbers come in there's adjustments there's adjustments to the Cherry sheets and I think as more numbers come in we're better they can find ways to find money especially when we were so far apart and I wasn't surprised throughout the process that they kept trying to find more money because it was so far apart I I think that what you would what you just said is probably ACC if you looked at this from the second week of February until now and you just looked at it with blinders on to what happened before the second week of February and the reality is is that a 2.94% budget came out that cut drastically cut the schools and increased multiple other departments there were good cases to be made that there are needs across the board the town has not come to terms with its Financial reality and the chairman of the select board and the town manager opted to make admittedly small adjustments on the town side at the expense of the schools that's what happened there's virtually no interpretation there that is literally what happened in the months preceding that now we have pavement Management program the pavement Management program as the chair has has described we have we are on a path to add $50,000 per year up until up up to a million dollar and I took the time the last couple weeks to go back and look at Town reports over the last 10 years and every single one of those Town reports when it talks about pavement management talks about funding the pavement Management program using Town funds and chapter 90 funds what we discovered two weeks ago at the finance committee meeting is that we have Barely Used any chapter 90 funds for pavement management a year ago when our roads were assessed they put a quote in the town report that said we have the best roads that that particular assessor has ever seen in his eight years of doing the work but we're doing it on the backs of our tax dollars I went through the capital planning process where the town manager asked for lots of DPW equipment drainage project on um on Reservoir Road a drainage project on um Laurel Lane never at any point along the way was chapter 90 mentioned as a potential path to take care of some of these projects they wanted to do it all on the taxpayers back and then lo and behold I don't know if the DPW director said the quiet part out loud two weeks ago or what happened but we saw the number of 1.98 million and nobody can articulate what that money is for so the point that I tried to make during during um public comment is the gamesmanship is just continuing it started a long time ago and is continued through last night in my opinion to include the comments of some of the members of the select board I I I just do not have that interpretation I I think that we are getting pled here and and I just I am not in a mood to be played Mr School BR um first of all I I think it should it should be mentioned that Peter's work ethic and his dog of determination always bring good insights and so I want to thank you for being the loyal opposition at everything you're just really really helpful so that's first second thing is I I hear Mr Leighton is saying and I think that there are certain certain things where there are issues that they didn't have a resolution to but I think that my question isn't so much about like the numbers that Peter just laid out I think those do tend to indict the other side in terms of not engaging in good Comm but even if you set aside the numbers which as we've seen over the past month or two can vary a lot I think that just the statement this is the final number I I'm concerned that that is an effort to figure out if there's leverage and what I mean by that is when you negotiate with somebody and you know that you're entering a negotiation often times the parties sit very far apart but in my experience in negotiations like that people that operate in good faith a acknowledge that they sit very far apart B say things like there's lots of work to do and c and I think most importantly are transparent about saying these aren't the final numbers we have we have a little more we can go or here's where these sources are going to come in and maybe I should not assume that people say what they mean but I don't see how we can look at this any other way that when people say this is the final number and we have gotten by your own count like five or six different iterations of new final numbers at some point we got to say like this isn't this is not good faith negotiation I I do not recall being in a position outside of the first time right first time she said 40,000 and that's it I don't see where you're going to get anymore but after that there was more of a let's see what even last night oh I I don't it was more of a let's see local receipt was one thing that was mentioned and and whether I don't know if I have no idea I just know that I tried to get the most money I could get and when we got to a point where it seemed like there was no place else we were going we were done I don't think that like I don't have any any disputes of how hard you guys have worked and what you've done my concern is that if the first statement is this is the final number we're done no no that was not the first statement except the first time right that's what I'm saying like don't say that the first time was not well that means that maybe a position of Leverage that they thought they had they did not have they didn't after a she got more um she got certified the new growth money and then the next time I called her we had heard what the DPW had said about the 1.9 million and that's when we start and and we had found out that perhaps the idea about the ARA funds came up and that's when we got the rest of it so that could have been where the leverage came from I I I'm I'm just concerned that we're going to get stuck and we are stuck we're going to be back here next year we're way behind the aball for next year next year we're going to be back here again well I I don't disagree with with a select board that doesn't prioritize the school the the education all of the not all of them I'm sorry and Renee has been fantastic especially with the idea about the arpa money that was ABS NOA money next year no the arpa money is going to be gone next year be gone so and we're going to be behind AAL because we moved a lot of these costs off the budget onto a onetime cost but there well the only thing moved off the budget onto a onetime is some of the Chrome books because the other two things are in fact one-time expenses you don't have to do the 911 twice when 911 enhanced or when not I respect done I respectfully disagree we run a we run over aund million in facilities and grounds right now there's going to be it's not going to be called an e911 or it's not going to be called a network security upgrade but when you run 100 plus million dollars in facilities and grounds you were going to have one-time expenses in in in six figure numbers on a year-to-year basis and without having a budget basis to move from and the budget flexibility to deal with these costs particularly when you don't have the luxury of being able to project them into the next year's budget but you have to deal with them immediately you're stuck and those will affect the education of kids in real time when those expenses come around if we have to make adjust adjustments mid year we are in a position here where we are we are stuck we have no room to move I your point is well taken and um there will undoubtedly be other one-time expenses and the only options we have is the best we can do with our budget get that as far as we can for the town meeting floor and then to hope that the override passes that that is what we've got right now is the $50,000 an increase in pavement man management yes so it's not the total pavement no it's an increase it's just the increase it's an increase so they're not dipping into the 1.98 that's different yeah they can't that's that that one point they can use that to to fix the roads next year instead of the $650,000 that sits there in the budget they could move that $650,000 for pavement management and and take that out of the 1.9 so that's an option available to them but we can't take the 1.9 million take9 prescripted the one by way it is an option for them not to take the one point to not take the $650,000 out of tax money I take that out of chap the 1.98 milon me some people have told me that it's only $50,000 but I think no the number is the number is 600,000 the it's and I believe it's going from 550 to 600 um or now back to 550 I I vaguely recall but that it's 6 it's 550 to 600 or 600 to 650 I don't I don't recall specifically to be clear chapter 90 is not money that we hold right it is State money that is a credit to lunenberg that is reimbursable for projects right so um but there's we have the financial flexibility to fund our payment Management program and get those reimbursements without committing additional to payment management now I'm not suggesting that we completely raid that fund I using it I am using it to illustrate a lack of good faith in in in how the numbers have been presented and the negotiating that is occurred to date I I just don't believe that we have we have approached this with all of the numbers on the table and I think that there is you know I mean look this isn't the only thing right the the the chairman of the board has portrayed the increase in the the new lieutenant uh position in the police department as a paid for position it's not paid for half of it is paid for um we're we're adding uh hours to a librarian as a retention measure trying to make a case around supervision of kids we're adding to the we are I mean we are adding to other areas and we are cutting drastically from the schools there is room to be made in that budget and I I think you know what we should do tonight is we should pass the needs-based budget as it was presented a couple of weeks ago and we should either go back and renegotiate or we should go to town meeting and we should uh offer amendments on the floor at town meeting um and and the finance committee I'm sure would be very interested to hear uh and and may have some creative ideas as well uh in terms of how we might be able to go about this um and as far as the override goes you know and I I with with all due respect to the to the public commenter earlier tonight I think that the override number is the Delta between those two the level Services minus Sesser and the the needs based budget and I think that both of those numbers are very defendable I I would agree with that I would also agree that if we want any chance of this override passing we don't play games on on the town meeting floor I I think we approved this budget is is my thought this is my thought and I'm just one person is we approve this budget and then that avoids a problem on the town meeting floor and then there will be more room for discussion about the override if we fight for this then I'm afraid what people are going to say is they got their $64,000 that bridge the difference by taking whatever from whoever they got what they need we're not going for an override and I I don't want to do that with all due respect it's not $64,000 it's it's substantially more than that it's the Delta between 238 and 241 it's it's about $300,000 when you put the arpa money together with the um with the uh it's more than that when you put the arpa money together with the uh with the new growth number um I'm talking about the Del I'm confused I because I am not I'm I'm basically excluding the arpa money oh okay um yes if you exclude the OPA money you are correct that is a lot more money than that um but I understand your point but you could just as easily make the other side of the argument which is they got what they needed why do they need more right and and you could you could say that we are pursuing all avenues to include the town meeting budget and an override and and we'll left leave no stone unturned you know I I I'm sure people will poke holes in both arguments I'm not you know I'm not I'm not an absolutist here but I'm just saying that the that that you can make that argument well then we will need to make a decision so what I'm thinking we should probably do and um is to go through Dr Burnham's presentation of what is included in this budget and then we decide are we going to take the budget as presented this evening or are we going to vote for the pink Row the the um the one that is slightly higher yeah Brian just a point of order does it make sense to have the budget hearing first and then an action on the fy2 recommended budget what we're going to recommend so I think typically what we've done in the past is I'll go through an update on the slides right um then you then we've opened the budget hearing close the budget hearing then there's deliberation with the board and then there's a vote okay just looking at the agenda it seemed like the recommended budget action was first before the hearing no we'll do the hearing after we hear the um the presentation on this budget all right I just want to start here I'm not going to linger here we're not going to go line by line just yet um but this is the um what I've been calling the rainbow spreadsheet um it is posted on the district uh web page and um it has the town manager's original 2.94 budget still and what I'm calling the new town manager's budget now that additional money the new growth the 50 ,000 in from the paving um the new town manager's budget is at 4.19 and then we still have the needs based budget and the um Sr budget in this document as well what you'll see here you see some numbers that are bold and red those are numbers that we changed from the needs based budget to make all of this work a couple of things in the last month um we had two unfilled positions um with now hires pending so the green budget reflects the salary that those two potential um new hires would be making there are a couple of other places where some adjustments are made the there was an adjustment made to health insurance because we again monthly have to update the enrollment so the green budget reflects the most updated information relative to the health insurance enrollment um but you know you'll see there are a lot of lines that we shaved money off some of the lines are reduced because the 911 money came out and it will be funded through arpa the um security uh upgrades for the network came off one of these lines um we reduced one of the lines uh for the monies that um will sort of offset the purchase of chome books so some of those lines reflect things coming out that will still be paid paid yeah um we did receive a couple of questions relative to um salary comparisons and there was one form of the budget that we had reflected the um guidance counselor split that will end up with a 50-50 split High School Middle School it's true of the other budget as well it's just that split was not carried in the proper line we went back and fixed things like that in this green budget so even if you vote the pink budget I'll have to come back and make some line adjustments for you it certainly wouldn't go over the bottom dollar line there but I would have to make some uh adjustments line item uh wise in order to have it reflect more accurately what we know today if I find any errors do you want me to just email I didn't get to look at this super closely um that's fine do you just there's like a few things where I'm numbers aren't they have like Extra Spaces and I'm worried they're not adding to the total we can double check that but I would say that we have checked to make sure that things were adding okay like in like like in 24 probably more than a half dozen times okay like in 2415 Elementary School other uh instructional materials the bottom line es special ed instructional materials the 400 has an extra space next to it and I'm worried that sheets isn't uh formatting that as a number to add in the 2415 es Elementary School other instructional materials at the very bottom es special education there's room for another zero if you wanted to there's like a space to the side you mean after the 400 yeah after the 400 um it is supposed to be 400 okay um I'm just worried it's not adding we'll double check if there are extra spaces Google Sheets won't always sum things correctly and it does that also on Ms special education instructional materials I can I just I didn't get a chance check I didn't get a chance to look at it and make sure same thing with special yeah I'll go through it later tonight well I know we're voting on it maybe this one what what was the line number of that 2415 I I'm not seeing a 2415 in my um I printed it out so it's like cell U G10 see that's more helpful if I print h102 oh I'm way out okay but it says 400 in the cell so even if it has a space or it's centered I think it's it's still popping up the right number you did it if you look up in the top left it still says 400 okay but there's no space in the okay just want it could be just how the cell is form value it's the value of the cell the value still has the correct Val I just thank you for checking because we don't want another six I did not want to discover that like certain numbers weren't added correctly or there was like an extra zero magically because Google Sheets does that sometimes okay so interestingly in mind it's it seems to be formatted correctly so maybe just a printer thing okay sorry that's all right so the question that we're deliberating tonight I just want to make sure I'm clear because I'm going to try to listen is whether we want and I don't I don't want to go through their names the pink one or the green or the blue one or you can pick another one you can pick any of them but the yellow one is out I'm not picking the yellow one is I'm probably not going to pick the green one either I don't really care what we say I guess it's really I mean unless somebody can make a really compelling case we should shoot ourselves in so so let's talk through a scenario here given the adjustments that you just uh outlined are needed Dr bur y um our charge is to pass a budget which then you have to bring to the finance committee tomorrow which will then need to be defended on town meeting floor so I'm just wondering about how you make adjustments to that how we pass if we were to pass for example the pink column the the needs-based budget knowing that there are budget lines that need to be adjusted or reflected based on the adjustments that you made in the green column yeah um H how do we how do we do that procedurally fine so so if you voted to approve that budget You' in part you would be voting to approve the bottom the bottom line the bottom line but you are also approving every line if there needed to be line item adjustments to more accurately reflect it's no different than Mr Cassidy coming in here with a quarterly report and saying that we need to move money because we've had substitutes or we've had whatever I would come so you would be projecting line item transfers on July 1 and make a recommendation for for you even in June to more accurate accurately reflect where we're at with health insurance or um hires for positions that we've been trying to fill um there are going to be adjustments in the and if if as an example the two positions that have hires pending those salaries are a couple thousand dollar higher than what was in the the pink budget when I first presented the pink budget if the bottom line is the bottom line then I'm looking to find monies from a different line to move to cover those salaries so it's possible that I could work within and just make adjustments to to lines um but still stay within that bottom line that said if you wanted to take a recess at some point I can get with my Dynamic team and we can go make some of those to the actual um needs based how long would that take you at this point I I don't want to do that I don't think I just I feel I don't know we we it would just be a matter of switching some things that the bottom line is is what the town needs well it is but given recent history oh yeah I don't know what you know what I mean like I I just feel like we do have somewhat of a we we have a real responsibility to portray this budget as accurately as we can correct at the moment we're in right I would agree and I I I just have reservations about passing a budget that we know is not as accurate as it can be in the moment that we're in so we could potentially take a quick recess I would not come back with a full line by line for you but it would be but I could go and tell you positions this you know I can tell you how much it would have increased by bottom bottom line so so in other words we don't the town interests as Citizens are important but our job is the students right our job is to get the best budget for the students I I mean I don't want to factor what the town needs also they told us we we went into this with a 2.94% budget I just I don't want to have to try and balance this against the needs of the town because that's not our job that's yeah our job is to get what the students need and right now the budgets we're looking at I mean we're not talking about increases we're talking about Cuts in every single scenario we're looking at there are cuts we're losing things in every scenario so I want to focus on what's best for the school and the students fine yeah so correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the assumption that whether we pass the 5.44% increase or the 8.62% increase that the town manager can still go to the the town meeting with the 4.19% bu is kind of irrelevant to what she puts in the omn that's my point omnibus budget what she wants to thank you for pting us back to that that is true um that being said if we vote for something that isn't what she puts in the budget then at town meeting what we would have to do is present why we don't think that's the right budget none of these budgets are right I mean really when you get right down to it I mean kids need stuff that we're not providing but we would have have to say why this budget is not correct how much money we need and where are we going to get it because it has to be a balanced budget well I think that's what she's going to do is present the 4.19 as the balanced budget and then what happens is if we were to say okay we need in order as best I can tell we need $64,000 to go from from the um green to the pink now if you don't want to use that Opa money which they have offered to give us to use if you don't want to do that which was Peter's thought that then becomes $285,000 that we would need and if you theoretically go to town meeting and you say we wish to um take $285 from and I'm just going to pick on it because that's the only place I could think of that would have that much money from pavment management and put it into our budget but we'll give you back your arpa funds if if that is what you wanted to do you would have to do that on the town meeting floor and then that would have to be approved that's very Risky Business yes so I understand the process my thought would be as a school committee we should argue to not take any funds from any department and just not argue for more money if if that's the case and then there's the override option so but not to steal from other departments yeah I'm not keen on stealing from other departments but this this DPW money is really kind of crazy yes I am trying to figure out what the best thing to do is and it sounds like from what you're saying that and tell me if I'm wrong we should pass either the pink or the green and keep our powder dry to argue in favor of the odor VAR so that we have this little squabbling on Town FL on the town meeting FL as possible that is my opinion it is just my opinion but you I mean well you have a lot of institutional knowledge you're I have a fair amount of institutional knowledge there's no question but I have never seen the squabbling on the town meeting floor go well and the last time that I recall it happened people still tell me we took uh $10,000 from the DPW and that was probably 20 years ago and I still hear that so I don't know what to tell you I I so it my my feeling I'm telling you what my thought was was to come in and vote on the um the green budget can you go over the cuts in the green budget or are we still we not C let me let me just finish and then there was six there were the $644,000 that was unaccounted for that had to be cut right the Gap yeah the Gap so that 64,000 I mean we can try and get that just because we have voted this doesn't mean that if they found a way to get us the 64,000 that you know but then we lose leverage obviously if we have voted that we would this budget the the scenario where we pass the pink budget the the the needs-based budget does not necessarily mean that a town meeting floor fight is where we're going there's been a lot of water under the bridge between the beginning of February and the end of March there'll be a lot of water under the bridge bridge between the end of March and the beginning of May W and and my concern is that if we pass the green column we are effectively saying pause until May 4th because we're good with the game as it stands right now point to be made so do is it is the wish we need to have a public hearing too so I know that's why we got to move along here so is it the wish of the committee to ask Dr Burnham and um and her crew to make these adjustments and maybe we could while we're doing that we can I'm not talk about something else or or or are we okay knowing what the bottom line is and I know they're not okay with that the I'm concerned that if we do that all we're going to do is introduce the possibility for more error I would rather stick to the number and do the line transfers as we do all the time I mean it's not a big deal it's the bottom bottom line number that matters and no budgeting process requires you to be preed they only require you to be responsible and if we know what the bottom line number is we're being responsible but not pre so like I am concerned that if we take a break and have them do quick math we're going to get it we're going to be right back where we were 2 weeks ago and it's just going to make it look worse so like no on the-fly math with hundreds of thousands of dollars and kids Futures at stake let's just stick with what we got and figure it that's my vote but I would agree with Mr skull I would agree with Tony I would but we' then have to defend it tomorrow night that's that's okay I mean I think a lot of us are leaning pink so all right well I I would I would I would concede to your position on this I I I with some level of discomfort I I'm I'm okay with with doing that knowing that we will have to probably articulate some changes as early as tomorrow night but um and the the superintendent can present that as a likely scenario if we go down that path okay in the next several minutes and hours okay so which of these budgets are we looking at then I mean let's look the superintend look at green budget the the budget you're planning on on presenting and see what those cuts are at the bottom because that what imagine that the pink budget is going to look because there's it's a pretty similar yeah so I I want to know what happens with the band so yeah you will find out in this presentation so why don't why don't you do the green the green presentation so I'm just giving you the update which is the new kit on the Block which is the green budget yep sounds good number number eight is this your eight n your ninth budget 36 I know count I don't know what I'm going to do when there the final final budget sleep I think I'll start working on FY find a finance person forget this oh gosh all right so I updated a slide deck because I think it's important for it to be a complete document as a standalone document for the public at this point relative to where we're at um so I have added a little bit to the original um the original presentation back in January 24th I think it was the date um we did have someone ask um relative to the athletic programs when we initially had some athletic cuts and there was Data uh but there wasn't data included in our presentation so there is now an updated uh slide that provides some data relative to Athletics so people could understand why we wouldn't cut an athletic director trainer because we have so many um uh of our kiddos participating we also had questions relative to why aren't we looking for Grants how about if we had a grant writer so I pulled together some slides that cover uh the grant monies that we have had in recent years so the Esser money just in their total day um who finds most of these grants are they is it U well you'll see here so if if you take a look at fy4 thank you wow we have our entitlement grants that we get annually the value of those grants fluctuates um it's formula based um so as our school population fluctuates um it does impact those entitlement grant numbers but the state grants those are competitive they're not a given um so as you can see there the last two are tied to our school Link services program uh that Mrs Gillette runs that it's a Early Education and Care Grant funded program and we uh pursued an additional uh Grant kind of coupled with the in the original family and Community Grant but all the rest of the grants on that list are our director of teaching and learning who sees what the grant is digs into what the grant allows determines whether or not it's aligned with work that we are doing and need to do she writes the grant proposal she submits the grant proposal if we're approved she then manages the Grant and does all of the necessary uh Summit of paperwork at the end of the year to close out the grant Dr Bur can I ask you a quick question about the grants yep the grants that we receive basically are more than enough to fund the position for the grant correct so if you take a look in the very first line $1 134,135 we're adhering to the components of the grant all of the Desi grants we have to provide um summary reports sometimes data is that something that could be done by someone other than a specialist or someone who needs to be familiar with our programs so there's a reason why our director of special services writes and executes the grants that have to do with special education and there's a reason why our director of teaching and learning writes for and executes the grants that have to do with curriculum instruction assessment because she has a deeper knowledge of what we're actually doing in the district dayto day than let's say the business manager would have or or that the special end director would have so the notion of having one single grant writer in the district or or if the town were to hire and we would not be we would not be having some grant writers submit all of these we need to access student data to submit as part of these grants we would still have to provide the grant writer with a narrative we would have to provide the the grant writer with the data we would have to find the data compile the data and then give it to the grant writer we would still be doing the like work so it's not as if we free up a whole bunch of somebody's time okay thank but the fund is essenti or the position is essentially more than self-funding at this point yes um as you can see even looking back to FY 23 that very first line of that Grant exceeds the salary um so does fy22 fy21 uh there weren't as many uh grants available and clearly back to fy20 there there were not here's the thing I cannot guarantee that grants will be this plentiful in future years but I can tell you right now that our director of teaching and learning has brought in multiple times her salary in the last couple of years but I just want to say this because I've always wanted to say this at a public meeting you miss 100% of the shots you don't take Wayne gry okay all right so um again I won't go through all the slides but I will say that I did make some updated notes Here in blue for the benefit of the public so we're we're definitely it's 11 buses unless or until I have numbers with Transportation forms coming in that squarely easily put us at 10 buses I really don't have any more leverage to argue that point um because they're basing it off of our total enrollment because our policy is that everyone can ride the bus right this is a a new slide um previous uh the previous slide deck had just listed the SR positions that were funded this year um this slide deck tells everyone the positions that we opted to cut as we had to um you know reduce um the SR monies um it was not exactly every single position that was currently funded with Esser we made choices if there were positions that were currently funded by Esser that we felt we needed to keep all right so the town managers updated revised budget with the 50,000 Paving and the new growth money would be a a 4.19% increase the budget includes Chapter 70 funding based on the governor's budget but also recognizing that there was a loss of that smart growth 40s money um um the contractual increases with all of our bargaining groups um this would be salary related step increases longevity degree advancements um the health insurance number with the enrollment updated um as of March [Music] 15th our transportation increases our uh utility cost increases can I just ask a question on that slide y are we absorbing all of the 40s cut we we we were told that we would not be getting that that was part of the 2.94 budget I believe was that it had it been a three% minus the loss of the 40s but that's why you will see in the curriculum adoption line in the budgets typically we've had 40,000 in that in that line 17 18,000 of it from the 40s and then the remainder okay but 7% of the school department budget does not amount to the 300 and some odd 200 and some odd thousand no no the town is absorbing took that loss for the most part all right as they should given the history on that 11% increase for years ago so okay I just but you'll see that the loss of the 17,000 is reflected in the curriculum fair in the budget I just was made 40s that that's a big number this actually represents a a very small portion the 40s is a very small part of it okay this budget the green budget does not include any of those projects the 911 compliance the network upgrades the um it's been reduced there is still money in the line for Chromebook purchase for um replacement for staff Chromebooks at the high school and um it did not cover the full cost of um purchase for grade six and N but the money that we're getting from ARA has been removed from from this budget so the my concern would be that the Chromebooks especially are the annual expense are there ways we can research other avenues in the future for these purchases Alternatives we can um we can look at um potential grants I'd have to talk to the it group as to how much of that uh might be e rate eligible um is there possibilities of like refurbishments you're getting them from like The Graduate like the the 12th grade the seniors graduate so as the eighth graders turn theirs in they've only had them for three years most Chromebooks have a life of about four um we take them and send them down to Turkey Hill and replace the oldest of the Chromebooks that are down at Turkey Hill they are in carts right kids aren't issued them as a oneto one we're back to there are devices um and there are enough for all of them because the kids have to take the mcast test on devices and that's why total just you know lingering with the old ones the mcast test updates and has updated requirements for platforms and some of our older Chromebooks while there's still plenty usable to get online or to use as word processing or something like that the platform the operating platform of that device may not support the updated version of the mcast test when the state switched from mcast being paper to computers did they include money for computers I know the answer to this I know the answer I know the answer is no because that's how it works in the state it's do this but we're not going to give you any money right and as I said they continue to update the test itself and it has specific requirements uh to support the test the device has to have a minimum level of um capability in this green budget this is very very important very important we level funded or reduced almost all of our expense lines with the exception of the service contract increases that we knew we were going to have utility increases and the health insurance why utilities if if you look at the level service budget that level service minus Esser um because the level service and the level service my assessor all of the expense lines were you know with the exception of health insurance um the line was at 18.4% increase um in the green budget the total expense line increase is less than 10 um so there's there's been a lot of cutting there my greatest concern we've navigated this year as I said there were um our utility lines our electric line was um not projected well therefore it was slightly under budgeted when you know that your lines are under budgeted you have to navigate the year very carefully and this year we have had so many unexpected costs that have come up things that we can't defer they have to be addressed now now it's really challenging how do you navigate all of that when your budget lines are this tight and next year our budget lines are going to be even tighter than they were this year next year we are walking on a razor Thin Line things are going to come up and we'll hope that they only cost a little bit of money because I have some flexibility to to cover that with revolving funds but anything a $30,000 elevator of repair those are the kinds of things that will blow us out of the water we are going to be those of us responsible for executing the budget will be having a very stressful year next year sounds like we need an override managing this budget it's EXT extraordinarily lean which affords US very little wiggle room and flexibility so when you take a look at the cuts um just one thing I just wanted to update as compared to the needs based budget one is the classroom teacher you'll see the second uh block under the high school column you'll see I have no noted there that it's math or PE to be determined that's because Mr santry the kids are registering for courses for next year he's going to take a look to see if if he can build a schedule that can be supported with a cut to PE he would make that cut and keep a math teacher cut uh again thinking that that's a benefit to struggling students it's an mcast tested have to pass they also have to pass uh three years of math in order to graduate um so again Mr sry is working on the schedule based on course selection and that cut it will be a it will be a full the equivalent of a full position um but we'll come back to you after probably the first week the first meeting we have in May and let you know based on the schedule um whether or not we're looking at a math position cut or a PE cut um and then you'll see further down in that line we've crossed out the music teacher reduction um the thinking there is um having some flexibility with a certified licensed teacher um that's part of the key to having our directed study blocks considered instructional time they have to be overseen by a certified educator it so you have to have a licensed teacher connected to those um so that affords Mr sry a little bit of uh flexibility there but that would still will include band and chorus and elective yes yep and we would add um a third par professional position from the high school to offset the Turkey Hill Music position remaining intact so we're we're trading we're keeping the Turkey Hill Music position as is but the way we're offsetting that is the reduction of another pair at the high school I had a conversation with Mr Sandry he's confident that that he can navigate the loss of a parah particularly if he has the flexibility of a certified teacher um still within his his budget the other place that we um made a change um there were uh five different um student custodian positions that were in the budget that's summer summer work they they helped the custodians you know move furniture out of classroom so that they can strip the floors and finish the floors and move furniture back in uh in my conversation with Mr hee um if we take that money that was allocated for student custodians again they're only with us for a handful of weeks in the summer um we would be able to keep the part-time nighttime custodian at TCP should we should we leave TCP that part-time position would be reassigned to the high school the middle high school because with based on the square footage we are short we are short the Staffing levels that we should have for the square footage of this building so if we do vacate TCP then that position would be reassigned to support over the Middle High School um just as an FYI again I left in the impact slides again here we are going to be operating with little capacity to adjust and cover unanticipated costs next year and the level of funding that is in the green budget in the expense lines that is not a sustainable level it is not in many cases where um relying on stock we have on hand like with the art suppli based on stock we have on hand we can make reductions and still be able to deliver and execute on the curriculum however we're not going to have that stock next June right those lines have to be restored so where you see all of those red bold numbers those cuts are not sustainable we can navigate it next year FY 26 no absolutely no yeah again I go through and there there's the impact slide for all of the different positions um we had already talked about um the curriculum and intervention Staffing model originally um when we were thinking we were going to lose intervention teachers we were going to look to maintain the four tutors and fund them switch from Esser funding this year to Title One funding next year um based on our having to go back and develop this green budget we squeezed out everything we could out of the title grants title one two and four to uh put salary offsets to allowable Physicians that said we we won't have enough funding to maintain for tutors so um we're we're very happy that we'll be able to keep the two intervention teachers but we are not going to be able to support um maintaining two tutors in each building can you explain what you just said about salary offsets I didn't I didn't follow that yep so um as an example our let's say our math um instructional coach this year was funded out of Esser right so in our budget tracking um that person's listed as an employee and their salary is listed but then there's a line below it that says offset and then we put in that same value we reduce that same value I I so it indicates to us that's a person being paid out of a grant I I wasn't okay but that's sorry lot of right lot of lines numbers going through my head if we hire the literacy specialist position it's going to be fully Grant funded but we would carry that person's name in in our roster of employees with their salary but then put a line in offet to to offset it with with the grant Ms um just a mention on um the behavioral house Staffing model um we don't need to linger here it's just that's a quick at a glance summary of Where guidance counselors will or will not be it's still it's a those are a lot of cuts I mean yep yeah I just want to highlight it for yeah people arguing that we're already getting enough money we're cutting Social we're we're going from one social worker two guidance counselors at the middle school to 1 Point 1.5 it's just we're having it at the primary school too that's that's difficult and again there there are just some budget summary slides um and the remainder of our budget timeline um as I said we went before the finance committee last Thursday we will be before them again tomorrow evening and the town meeting is May 4th I I wanted to offer just a strong um endorsement for including department heads with the finance committee I think that that what happened last week I think it was a really good discussion that was you know very well informed by having additional expertise in the room and more than a 7 to one conversation but a you know 7 to three conversation and I think that we should consider that a best practice and do it that way in the future okay does anyone have any questions about what was just presented I think we pretty well jumped in so this preserves the fifth grade van the way it is yes yes okay so does the pink one then right yes okay um yep and you can see um with that rainbow sheet again anywhere that there's a red number you can look at the pink and see that it's been reduced somewhat from the pain um in most cases not drastically um and you can also see I kept the list of cuts that go with each budget down below and you can see here side by side while the music teacher reduction at Turkey Hill was in the needs based budget the pink one um and even if we were to rework lines in the pink budget um we could offset and keep the um music position intact as it is currently uh with the offset of a pair of professional and then the only other difference like I said was the um student custodian uh as as opposed to the part-time night uh custodian at TCP and it looks like the total FTE it looks like we're cutting more um the a line um but you're talking about a full-time par professional a 1.0 versus a reduction of a music teacher by3 so that's why the number is bigger but as you can see do the crosswalk it's the same number of really the same number of positions people so will that given what you just discussed about the music teacher the pink the pink FTE number will actually change if we were to approve the pink line that FTE number is going to change to look something more like what's in the green line exactly it would look exactly like that because we would still make that adjustment in the needs based budget too okay the thing about the needs based budget is um the expense lines yeah it's the expense Lin it's the expense line that's the that's the rug well and the the non-recurring money for recurring expenses that that's the biggest issue to me is the I mean the expense lines as well obviously but the so here's an example that I just want to call attention to um you'll see that there are two red numbers there um again one of them the increas is because I we we have a pending higher that will have a slight higher salary um and the school psychologists um again as we're looking to get to the final final version of a budget that's in the books period this would also be an adjustment we would make to the pink budget uh Juliana really wanted the um portion of a full-timer to to align properly with where they would be assigned and the previous uh versions of budgets didn't have them assigned you know 0.25 of your time you're serving this building 025 you're serving that building and 0.5 you're in that building so that's what that number is it's because we reallocated the portion of the salary to the school that it would truly be attached to but the only increase here truly salary-wise is the the pending higher um it's but like I said a few thousand dollars uh above what we um had as a placeholder there are they starting this year or next year next year so like I said there's a story behind every one of these numbers people at home can email me and I can explain the story I don't want to you know spend too much too much time going through every single line um but but we can explain uh every single line um the new equipment systems maintenance M we're going from the green budget has this at 6,000 pink budget had us at 26,000 what are we giving up uh um that's the money that I had uh included for any work related to a move from TCP over to Turkey Hill okay are we going to give up the TCP move or we going to have to find the money somewhere else we're all going to use my pickup truck I'm for it sounds good I want us out of that building so bad I yeah so as part of the conversations and again things Chang but as part of the conversations the town manager noted that we were trying to budget a cost for the relocation and at the same time the town would be losing the revenue that is generated by the rent that we pay for the space that we use at TCP for our ear Early Learning Center extended day and our Community School links Grant funded program and that is approximately I think 27,000 I think something like that and we get those funds from so part of part of that total um Patty Gillette pays the rent out of the grant the Early Learning Center Grant um and the rent for the other uh looms would come from what's brought in um parents paying for the uh Early Learning Center program and the extended day program so next year would we be also let's consider us in a different building would we still be getting those incomes would the town the schools be still getting those incomes so part of the thinking right there were a lot of move in Parts with the the contemplation of a move one the building condition continues to deteriorate uh last month I had someone come to me with concerns multiple people were having relative to headaches after being in the building a couple hours every day we checked to make sure it was not a carbon monoxide issue it's not um we also in thinking about moving extended day were hoping that we would be able to save the cost of a bus we've been told that at some point the Ace Program and the other programs that run right now that have kiddos attached to them would have to be relocated if the municipal building project got going because Ritter people would be displaced into the building we found a way to locate the Ace Program in the Turkey Hill building but not have them wandering through the building with 9-year-olds sharing a common bathroom with nine and 10y olds um they would have been in the in the wing down that Corridor between the kitchen and the cafeteria where the old wood shop used to be and where the music room is located behind the stage in the cafeteria there's a separate bathroom in that Corridor and there's an entrance there's a door at the end of that Corridor so those students could come and go through that designated entrance have facilities that they could use without getting into space where the younger students would be um but again the if I move the Ace Program Juliana hansam our director of special services is the administrator of record for that program with the Department of Ed her offices her two secretaries the files all of the special ed files in her office would have to be collocated where the Ace Program is so I would have to move the special ed offices at the very least if I move the Ace Program but then that creates the disconnect where those the special ed staff are down in my office many many times throughout the day no it makesense now we would be disconnected so then we were starting to contemplate could we move all of the offices down and again it was going to depend on is there enough electricity to support all of those moves and that the 20,000 more so yes electrical but we would need to locate a washer dryer and oven and refrigerator into the spaces that the Ace Program would now occupy because they're learning life skills they cook they do grocery shopping they they need the refrigerator the oven they learn how to do laundry so there would be Plumbing that would need to be done um but there's a shared wall with a bathroom and or the kitchen so we thought we' we'd probably be able to get some access and tap into Plumbing what's the timeline on finding out the feasibility of a moof um it at this point I'm still waiting on um the electricians to come in and really pull the panels apart to see exactly what's tied in and where it's going and what it's supporting um and then if that can support it then we would have to have a plumbing assessment to see you know how we might be able to get a a washer dryer into that that area but I think the conversation with the town manager was it's a double whammy because it's going to cost us money in the budget to make that move and there's going to be lost Revenue if we make that move well that was my point is I don't think the revenue is lost it's just moved to a different we will still have it it we won't be paying rent yeah that's we'll be paying rent to ourselves the money is going to go to so the money would stay in that self- sustaining revolving account and one of the benefits that we foresaw with that available money we have to come in and make adjustments to the unaffiliated salary schedule this spring um and knowing the challenge that we have had securing Staffing and knowing that the staff who work those programs could actually make more money if they went down uh to John Fitch Highway and worked at McDonald's or Dunkin Donuts so we thought if we're not paying rent and we have those Monies we could come in with a more substantial adjustment to the hourly rates that the staff are paid because we would have money in that account if we weren't paying money so if we put a pause on the move it's going to impact the recommendation that we come in with for the unaffiliated salary schedule increase because we won't have enough right funding to to do anything significant there I think we need to be full steam add on a move I think financially it's what we need to do I want to get out of that building it's better for our employees better for the kids well one of the challenges that we've had in recent years I I would say more noticeably in the last year um there's an awful lot of use of the gymnasium all day long nous pickle ball has become like the hottest thing and almost any day or hour of the day you can hear the pop of the paddle on the ball coming from the gym so there are a lot of people into the gym but they don't stay in the gym they come into the carer to use the facilities and there's nobody out in the carer controlling where people can go go throughout the building um there's just a lot more use of the building and it presents a a security challenge right especially during the parts of the day that we have kids in the building so it's great for the community that there's so much going on right it's an awesome thing but it presents some managerial challeng I think there's a consensus on the committee that we are the schools that we are available to move I would like us to go to the budget hearing though tonight oh do you have more batteries yep okay so all right so then um maybe I'll what I think we'll do is we'll head to the budget hearing what we have to do is we have to um just state that we are entering the budget hearing when we do that anybody from the community can ask questions about the budget and um we I think will be rather loose in saying that you don't have to stick to any particular color but chances are we're talking about green or pink we've already said we don't want yellow so um I I would I would suggest that but other than that any I guess I would also say that people could talk about blue as well oh yes yeah they could the only one we have said we're not going to is yellow so um anybody with questions about the budget or comments to make come on up and you just need to state your name and address and um make sure there's a little green light on your microphone there is a green light you're ready TJ TJ Laughlin and you know my name awesome TJ Laughlin 207 Rolling Acres Road uh out here in lber so I wanted to just cover a few things and I will end with a question although it's probably rhetorical at this point but that's all right um needless to say I'm a little confused um I'm I'm a little confused about what we're talking about um and the characterization of what we're talking about really is is what keeps going through my head so tonight what I heard was none of these budgets is right because either way the kids aren't getting what they need and then I heard words like this budget is lean it's tight it's razor thin last night heard similar words but here were the other words we appreciate everybody working together to bridge the gap so next year we'll be able to fund the school at least to a point where not panicked about it and hopefully our achievement that is coming up and has been coming up will will continue to grow the other thing I heard tonight was here are the options we have let's get our budget the best we can and hope the override passes what I heard last night was my preference would be to wait and do it carefully next year with the town and to work together towards an override with a single select member saying I agree with that position so and with select member m ke who's in the room hope I'm hoping she'll say something suggesting we we form a task force to build data to present that next year right um so my question here is is the budget being discussed here good for the kids is it not good for the kids is it leading to growth or is it not leading to growth is it doable and not chaotic or whatever the opposite of that is uh do we need an override or not right are the answers to these questions dependent on which meeting I sit in or are they objective answers to these questions and I actually don't find it funny because it's frustrating because I hear in the select meeting some level of commitment and then here I hear a different thing and then I go to fincom and I hear a different then over email we have 15 people sending emails every single point of contact has a different answer so I don't know if I sit here and wait for an answer or I'll adjust I will address my comment of last night um first I would say it is not a comment I haven't made before my comment was when Mr Lonzo looked at me specifically and said do you think we need an override and I said my goodness yes because you didn't this I did it one point I did perhaps not first but I did say this is not sustainable what we are doing I said last night and I've said it many times I still believe that an override built with the town moving everybody together has a better chance of passing I still say that I said it that night we were in the auditorium I've said it I said it to you one night but do you prefer we wait that's do I I don't I don't but at this point I don't think my preference makes a difference the board has voted and I did state that last night the board has voted to support the override so we will override I am one person this board has said they would support this override then we will support the override and I I did not intend for my words to cause conflict I realized they have um if if we had had a prepared presentation I probably would have said the same thing but in a different way but um that that's the way I feel I I come out with an honest answer that's how I am but that's where that came from do I think we're treading water with this budget yes and when you tread water there is an opportunity that you go under and I said to the select board if we have a disaster we'll be back here because we have no room for a disaster in this budget and I did say that am I happy with this budget no is it better than 2.97 absolutely and that's where I was sitting I was trying to make sure the lane that I was working in was trying to make sure that if this override failed we would not drown and and that's that's my point from last night so Mr school and bringing so first of all I don't I want to say I wasn't laughing at what you said but I was laughing hard for me to counter I have so much confusion about what's going on and like I'm supposed to be a person that's making the decision and that means that there's some real issues with communication and I think that I've hinted earlier tonight and to what I think part of the problem is but I also think that it's important to say this clearly and definitively I'm going to vote for the pink budget because I do not think that the green budget is sustainable and the reason I don't think it's sustainable is because we are operating on such a razor thin margin that if anything happens next year if a hydraulic seal in one of the elevators breaks then we are thrown back into chaos and I think that it is unwise to be budgeting on a year-to-year basis when we have a project that will sustain this town for a century we need to have a broader scope of what we are doing and so I think we should vote for I'm going to vote for or in favor of the pink budget but I am also in favor of an override this year and next year whenever we need to get it done to pass it I think that Carol is right to say that a a budget an override with the town would be more likely to pass but I also think that trying this year has no negative cost for the school district it's a lot of work and people like you and Mandy and all of these people put in the time but we've got to do it this year if we can do it this year if we can get it to work at town meeting then that's the way to go but I also think that if we can't we can't give up we've got to do it next year because the funding for the town is fundamentally broken we cannot have a school district where we get 2.5% of an increase when inflation gobbled that up two years ago so I am in support of the pink budget I could be talked into the blue budget but no less than the pink budget and I am supportive of an override right now I think we should try it right now no reason I don't know how public hearings work you are allowed to respond so I guess I guess what I'm curious about is uh do you understand the relationship between saying we need to work together with the town and the select board to push the override successfully but then going to the select board and uttering the words that we we think we should wait for an override and then agreeing with members of the select board that they prefer to also wait that's a i there's a conflict all right no I I hear what you're saying and I'm I'm just going to put my cards on the table I have a tremendous amount of respect for Carol archille if she says something I take it to the bank she's saying here that the emphasis was on the wrong syllable last night and so I think that's the case I do think that part of the problem is there has been this sort of friction between the select board and the school board about what's happening and how it's happening and I think to some degree the school board is to blame because we do not do things concisely and clearly we have 4-Hour meetings two times a month that could be done in 90 minutes I know if we want to have a message that is clear and concise we must be clear and concise and we are not so like I think the problem is is we have this friction that we have in some ways contributed to that being said I would never think that Carol would go and do something that actively harms kids and if if I'm a a sucker or if I'm wrong fine I I will admit when I'm wrong but I don't think that her and tell me from wrong I don't think her intent was to sabotage anybody's plans I think that she was put on the spot and said something different than what I think people were anticipating but my personal opinion is we need the override we need it this year we need to vote for a higher budget because we cannot have this problem come up every single year we need to do some long-term planning and it starts by asking for enough money to fund schools for our kids not in fourth grade but in fourth grade through 12th grade and then when they go to to University they're going to go to these hedge funds we call universities but for now we need to make a plan that goes not just year toe but long term and I think Peter's point about using money to pay for a recurring cost is emblematic of the problem we cannot be thinking that way we might have to do it because we have no choice but we cannot be thinking that way long term so yes on the big budget yes on the override yes this year yes next year yes every year until it passes I appreciate that thank you Tomy directness um Mr beard more then we have someone on Zoom we'll get there I know I know yeah um I uh first of all I think that there's a silver lining to what has occurred over the course of the last couple of months and that is folks like yourself and a number of others have gotten involved and and really advocated for what you believe in and I I think that that's not the only Silver Lining by the way there are others um that that have come out of this and I've discussed this with some of the other members including the chair um you would have some questions about is this you know directionally is this are either of these scenarios the right scenario and I don't think they are but I think that the problem is is that there ain't there isn't enough money and and you know I disagree with the chair of the select board on a lot of things right now but he and I have agreed that we are fighting over scraps right like there just isn't enough money and when we're talking about the budget that we're considering here aside from the override we're fighting over scraps and and it is not a sustainable budget in either scenario to to answer your your question directly one is less sustainable than the other unfortunately and and we're we're left with the the the lesser of two evils in in my opinion and they're not even that far apart quite frankly no um but but it is what it is and I think that we we do need to stand on some principles here um I spent three years on the finance committee um one year is chair and I learned over that course of time one of the principles that our town builds its Budget on is we don't use nonrecurrent ing money for recurring expenses that is a a tenant of our town manager budgeting beliefs and yet here we are in a situation where to connect the gap between her proposed budget and what is needed her answer and the answer from the chairman of the select board is to do exactly that and I just can't rationalize that in my head um um I think I I've said before I I think the quarrel amongst us is what are the chances of the override and and I have my opinion on this but I support it I I voted to support it as a school Committee Member and I've said multiple times that I will vote for it and I will help campaign for it um and and I I think we there's very little daylight between myself and and Tony on this um I wanted to make one one last Point um and it just escaped so I'll shut up okay awesome thank you all right thank you Mr Franco okay hello uh so I've never done this on a phone before so hopefully I'm coming through okay you're doing wonderfully okay so uh my position on funding schools should be no secret to anybody at this point uh uh so what I want to make emphasize here though is that you have to maximize the chances for Success on an override but you also need to make sure like I'm I mean I understand the motivation to trim and be as lean as possible and you know that's proper uh to make request for a small an override as small as possible I get the motivation behind that but you only get so many shots so often to do an override and I just want to like it's mind setting it's not I'm not saying budget to make at this moment but basically I'm saying in in in in just 30,000 foot view you know layman's terms is go big because you're not going to get the chance isn't going to happen too often you're not going to get an override twice in four years it's just not going to happen so you have to make sure not only you maximize the chance of success by making a great Case by the way I'm speaking for myself not for the select board as a body uh and blue Franco 250 [Laughter] arry I what I don't want to see happen is number one an override fail out of haste I don't want to see an override that's too lean and then you find out 3 or four years from now that it was inadequate and now you got to go back to the well because that's not going to happen it's not going to succeed so I guess what I'm saying if you have this Moon shot and it has to be calculated precise you know with all this in mind uh so and I think it should be absolutely clear and I don't know if a message just hasn't gotten out there but it seems like it hasn't gotten through it to some people when you look at social media media but you have we haven't voted as a body yet uh because the thing hasn't crystallized enough yet that to come for us to vote as a but you've had several individual members uh enough I mean you've had several individual members speak to this and speak you know sympathetically to it uh so I'm not going to speak for what's going to happen but I think you know it's definitely I mean I would say it's nearly def I think it would be a shock if it didn't get on the warrant and on the ballot uh and you know I can't speak for other remembrance but if it's done right and it's right sized and I mean I'm going to speak in favor of it too so uh but I I guess really what I I just want to make sure I mean I again just I see you triming all the fat I see you trying to make this thing as lean as possible and maybe that CLS the gaps for this year but is doing that going to be a big enough ask on the override the override is too small just to just to plug the difference just to just to plug the Delta for this year it's not going to sustain into the future because as it has been pointed out all over the place the budget only goes up 2.5% per year but everything is grow is is is going up by inflation by in excessive that so that's all it's not it's not a me expressing any kind of preference for which budget you're greeny or pink there but it's just noral Minds setting um exercise or sentiment thank you thank you for your support L uh you're welcome uh and thank you for all you're doing this is not easy work uh for anybody all right thank you I'll let other people speak now thank you thanks Lou um this is Mandy Gilman 186 Reservoir Road um I guess the thing that's most frustrating to me is that every time someone says they support an override they like to tell us that it's not going to pass every single person who has told me today that they support an override besides Tony has told me it is not going to pass and that is just incredibly frustrating because unless we speak as a unified voice and ex and if everyone wants to wait till next year that's fine but nothing in this process process in the last two months has proven to me that we will have our act together to ask next year we can't get along I don't believe that the board of selectman besides Renee who is here and has done a a tremendous job in trying to help the I don't believe that they want to negotiate with us and the school and the town manager I believe they have their own agenda and you know they they have been courteous to me in person I got off my couch last night and drove up to town hall Hall at 9:30 I changed out of my pajamas to remind them that there's a group of parents here that are very passionate about this and it's not that I don't think that they're sort of with us right but you don't get people to vote in a town to raise their taxes if people are sort of with us and that includes everyone at this table includes everyone behind us and for a group of us who are putting in a lot of effort and a lot of time and I believe you are all doing that as well but a group of us who are not elected did not ask for this and are spending a significant amount of our time and our lives trying to make this argument to support our children and the teachers in the school district how do you think it must I'm not a teacher I work in another industry but how do you think it must feel to be a teacher who works in the schools district school district and no one has said this to me but that your boss and your you know leadership is arguing for less money you know there is no penalty for you guys to vote for the largest budget if the town manager is going to do whatever the heck she's going to do to bring a balanced budget to town meeting I just don't I I I could be just missing some giant portion of why there is no reason if you truly believe we need more money that you guys can't vote for a larger budget and put a St in the ground and just say hey you know what you may not agree with us but we want a larger budget and maybe it's just a symbolic Foote but until we get everyone speaking in support of it it it feels a little like gaslighting honestly because every time time we do something yes feels like every time we make a move right we like we plan a meeting we get a logo I donate a significant amount of personal money to a a uh account I'm trying not to get too fired up that is going to you know pay for things that we need and then to hear that you know at the meeting last night there was discussion that the money wasn't needed was very difficult for me and it's not about me it's about the kids in the school district and I want them to get what they want but I also want to know it felt it was it was blindsiding and I've expressed this as well personally and just really upsetting so we don't have to address that I'm crying and that I was in front of you last night practicing my pajamas um but I guess there should be more people with passion in politics but it's hard to be that person so that's that thank you doing [Music] [Applause] it can I make a just a a com you certainly yeah um like you I've been around for a long time and I've seen these things come and go and um you know I have have a very good friend who who tends to take a different view on things like overrides and and he always says to me we'll going to get through this one way or the other right you famously would say voters at town meeting usually make the right decision and and I do have faith in the system and the system is not a clean system it is a very messy system we have five members of the select board and a town manager we have five members of the school committee and a superintendent we have seven members of the finance committee all of us are independent thinkers plus we have staff that work for all of us plus we have constituents like yourselves and it's getting to that consensus is a very very difficult thing and very seldom attainable um but that's not to say that we can't make progress without consensus yes and and I think we can I I do have faith in the process I don't know how this is going to turn out but as you can see I hope from what was demonstrated tonight we are all very independent thinkers I I you know I think that some people may have thought that the school committee would have come in tonight and and rubber stamped the the the blue colum um and I I don't think that's where where we're going tonight and and we have to trust in the process and you have to keep speaking up so thank you very much thank you and I you know I I understand it's messy I mean I worked in the state legislature I'm not naive right but I and and I know how this stuff works um but you know as a group of constituents who feel as though we are trying to help you I think a little you know I I very much appreciated your speech earlier Laura and I don't want to feel like someone has always been told thank you because that's not what I mean but you know I we want to be part of the process I mean I have offered multiple times to come in talk about things you know use my State Legislative experience to think about ways we could raise more money you know and you guys have been busy and I get that I'm I'm trying not to be a pain but like it just you know it's frustrating thank you yeah um when I got an year already today so it's all right when when I was uh when I was 5 years old I watched a movie called Star Wars and at the end of Star Wars everybody tells Luke there's no way this is going to work yes and I have thought to myself every day since I've been a lawyer I want to take the cases that are the hardest to win with the worst odds because there is never a wrong time to do the right thing and I have done stupid things that worked like when New Hampshire wanted to pass a law that repealed the statute limitations on civil sex sexual abuse cases there were 15 different constituents at the table I wrote a on sentence statute I handed it to the speaker and it got passed unanimously right this is not something that is undoable and I think that like the idea that we have to speak with one voice is really important and so yes stat is all un ask we are on I I we are on the same page I think the one thing that I would ask and I don't know the answer to this is Carol's point about passing one budget to prevent a scrum so that we can then keep our powder dry to talk about the override that Rings true to me in a strategic sense and that's I respect that I respect that but I think that what happened last night and in other situations there's not been enough couching yes we want I don't think it was a bad decision to try to get more money out of the Town manager I'm not you know I'm not saying that that was I thought that was a good decision but I just feel like there's been a lot of sort of capitulation to what the select board and the town manager want and all I'm trying to say is this board has its own independence I think Peter said it very nicely beginning that this you know you guys can vote on the green or the whatever I don't even care what budget it is cuz we're going for an override but you can vote on the one that is you know not going to cause the scrum a town meeting right but then you could take a a like you should be saying we are going to vote for this but this is not sufficient like you shouldn't be saying we're going to vote for this because this is what the town manager said we can have that I mean that's sort of like the communication part to me is like we're we're accepting what the town man manager is giving us and you know we're trying to make it work to what she wants right and that is the message that and maybe we're lucky that people aren't paying as much attention as some of us are right but I you know I a picture of this the superintendent respectfully and the school committee chair in front of the board of Selectmen saying we don't need the override to make it work if I was the opposition that is the first thing that I would put on absolutely every single piece of paper that I handed out right because what does that make us look like so I think you you need that's where I feel like communication and some of this stuff and this is not just my meeting so I I want to because I'm very passionate about it but um right like it has to be one thing it can't be a hundred things it can't be we want this one we want that one we want this one we want that one you know I think it's like a really simple thing we want as much money as we can get to educate children period right whatever the source whatever need to be said absolutely every time we talk about money we can get yes period period and I'll just offer this thought yes I am grateful that the town manager budged because her new town manager's budget is now 4.19% where you have to understand I am responsible to submit for consideration of the committee but she always requests a 2.5% budget every single year every single year I build a 2.5% budget not because I think that's what we deserve or is appropriate to meet all of our needs but so that this body will will see what I'm recommending should the town manager only include a 2.5 in her omnus budget that she presents and should that pass this would be the budget we'd be looking at so we had a 2.5 we had a 2.94 we're now up to a 4.19 plus arpa money that help helps us get other needs met I am grateful for that however you know that I created a needs-based budget and that is what I think is Bare Bones what we need to continue to meet at some level the needs of our students then we've got the Esser budget that's level service minus position cuts because for 3 years in every public meeting we've ever been in we've been told you we can't have you coming back here asking the the town to give you more money to keep all these positions once the grant money is gone it's gone agreed we I understand I understand that the town is not then going to assume the cost once the grant money is gone again I will say for the benefit of the public over these last handful of years I have made recommendations we have pursued funding sources in order to staff and purchase materials that I think are needed in order to make the progress that the school committee wants to see and have a quality educational experience I came and recommended many of the positions that we're looking at many of them I just want to sit by my friend because I feel like you're lecturing her but it needs to be a group discussion so I'm just going to I don't need to so here here's what I'm trying to say I create multiple different versions of budgets based on what I'm being asked if if you have this money what is the budget if there's this money what is the budget I have given multiple versions of a budget so that people would understand how we as a leadership team inside the schools would make decisions if that was the the limit of the funding that we were going to get that said based on the grant slides you can see that when grants come up we go after grants and if we can find grants that would fund positions that we have had to recommend to cut based on the resources that we have available they would be the first positions that I would be coming back and say we got a grant we we want to hire this position we like permission to post that's how we have operated through the last several years with all of the different grants that have come forward we pursue to make sure that we are Staffing to meet the needs of the kids so I I am grateful that we are are being given more money I I am because we're getting closer to that Bare Bones level budget that said I would love to have a level service budget and keep all the positions that we have and be able to fund all of the expense lines the ways in which the principles or high school department heads or districtwide department heads are requesting so that they can continue their mission Within the larger Mission yes and I just think that whether you and whether the people at this table want to be or not people are looking to your opinions about whether they should vote for it or not so I would just respectfully request that every time you speak about this and even though you've said it a million times one person may only see it you talk about at one time and if you don't say what you just said at the end of this to me there are a lot of people who don't want to vote for this there may not be you know I I don't even know cuz I can't do a poll whatever but you know like I I just think we don't if you really believe we need the money we cannot give the other side fuel it's just like when people keep saying oh it's fine it would be great to have an override but it's not going to pass that is just it just is a very difficult way to run a campaign when you're like hey we want an override because everyone needs the money but then you have all these people going around saying we don't actually need the money well we could live without the money we like you know we could do this we could do that we could do this we could do that manad didn't go to the meeting last night because I spent 20 hours the last week organizing a committee you know I don't want to sit through another selectman's meeting I'm sure you don't want to either but like you know it's it's tough it's tough when there's people out there saying other things and respectfully the board of Selectmen I mean I think l you know selectman Franco I believe that you know but it's not a most welcoming environment and it does feel like they're not always with the best interest heart of the schools so I I don't want to belabor the point but thank you um Laura with your hand up too many buttons to click to get online good evening Laura 39 M Road um I just want to I appreciate the work that you guys are doing I've said this in other meetings as well I appreciate you know the goal you trying to get to here um I have a couple of things um one I want to just thank Mr Frankl for his comments because I'm in complete agreement we need to ask for what we need not what we can get not what we be bones um I counted the I counted when I started counting at least five times the committee members said if there's a disaster um it's not it there will be something that will come up the elevators whatever the things are there will be something and we can't operate with when we're talking about our children's education um I'm not confident that this committee can wait for the town and for others to get on board with us we have a need and I feel it's this committee's responsibility to put that need forward and be behind that need and telling the town what we need um to get to educate our children and um and I'm just not confident that if we were to wait for others again in the town that we would be rubing in the same direction and that they would have our best interests um in this forum as a school committee um as everyone who I'm seeing on the screen attending this as well keeping those interests um in front and and not um somehow letting that that message get watered down um that there are some large expenses and hearing well hopefully we can do this and hopefully this would happen hopefully doesn't pay the bills hopefully doesn't satisfy you know the bank when you're paying your mortgage it's it's actions and it's what needs to happen um so I just want to again appreciate what you're doing appreciate the the the position you're finding yourselves in but um I think we just we need we have an opportunity here that we need to be um behind that we need to be confident we need to Rally support for that and we need to make sure the message is this is for the children of this town that are being educated in our school system thank you thank you very much um Anastasia okay can you all hear me okay yes yes wonderful I'm not coming on camera I apologize I am in the middle of a work project so I've been kind of paying attention with one year and finishing this up with the other um uh okay Anastasia greedy 109 Young Road um so over the last couple of weeks or maybe few weeks we're losing count um I'm one of the parents that was recruited by Mandy for override ballot committee uh we're not Finance professionals or School administrators or attorneys and landscapers chemists marketers stay home parents um and collectively I would say we put in hundreds of hours in the last couple of weeks we've built websites analyze budget data I think TJ probably has more spreadsheets than he wants to admit on his computer um we prob crowdsource support from other parents in town we've started fundraising messaging um have several meetings and we're really ready to do more but I think um in thinking about what I've heard tonight and every other night that I've joined a school committee meeting select board meeting um everyone does reiterate that they support an override they support getting more money through the schools but everybody says that we need to get it right we need to find find that magic number in order to pass uh because we have one chance to get it right and if we don't get it right this time around and we don't ask for enough money to fund the future couple of years we're going to be in bad shape again and we won't have an opportunity to be taken seriously and so my question as someone with no experience in town politics or School budgets besides the last two to three weeks um is is really who should we be looking to today right now to advise us on how to maximize our chance for success with passing the override what is that magic number that everyone is talking about but not saying out loud um is it is it Kate is it the town manager is it one of the Committees is it the people on the school board um Can someone just give us the am can you can you inform us of what this process is what this magical you know what what has to fall into place for this to be successful because we really are doing our best with the information we have um and it feels like it needs to be perfectly planned but you all have more experience more knowledge you're wiser um you understand probably been through this before and I'm asking just for some concrete information um because we are ready to do the work we've already done some work but we would like to feel like what we're doing is taking steps toward that progress rather than working towards something that may or may not even be the right approach that you all have in ours so I would just ask for more more concrete details um whether today or in an email we just we want to get started we want to do it right but we need a little bit more guidance for you um thank you for asking that question I I wish any of us on the board here could say we have experience with working overrides none of us do to the best of my knowledge um I was a resident in town the last time it passed in 1992 um I had 1996 I had an 1993 well whenever it was I had young kids and um I was not involved in it so I don't know um and I think I'm the Elder Statesman here um as far as a number goes as a school committee we voted that our number would be the Esser level the level service minus Essa number minus whatever was on on the town manages omnus Omnibus budget that was the vote we took so with I had figured out if if the 4.9% budget 4.19% budget with the Opera funds was what goes on the budget on the town manager's budget according to that formula that brings us to 791 , 3110 that's what I've got we've been rounding things up so I probably have like $800,000 don't take that to the bank because um we have to have a number by Tuesday night that would be our number according to what we had voted previously and I'm not going to speak for this committee so we have to um let our conversation go after this public hearing and see where it leads leads um to determine if there would be a change to that number but according to what we had previously decided on that would be what the number is um Mr beardmore so I do think that after we close the public hearing and vote on a budget we do have to have a serious conversation about an override I agree because what we did not consider when we had that conversation was the use of arpa funds being one time funds and the effect that that would have on the continuity of a baseline budget true so I'm not sure that we can go back to whatever the town manager puts on the Omnibus and say that that's the basis for so there is a discussion that needs needs to take place um to to uh Miss Grady's comments though I I I sympathize with your position um because I and I and empathize with it because I know that you want to move forward with some sort of clear guidance from the school committee and know what the number is so that you can be begin building campaign materials and messaging around that number I I completely understand that we have been on a very bumpy road over the last couple of months if you had asked me a month ago if we would you know if you recall there was a 60-day window that we had to be on and that days you know like expired a week ago so things have changed along the way that have just you know and none of it was anticipated at least by me and and I've only been at this for you know five or six years but this has been a a very unpredictable couple of months um I would say don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough you know and and that's Vol oh nice well done well done good comeback vol Wayne grety tonight um because we you have to get moving if you want this to be successful and and there will not be consensus or unanimity there just won't be um and and people will be able to pull this apart they just will um and and the at the end of the day the trick is can you get one more vote than the other side and and the that's just my opinion but you know back to my earlier Point there's a lot of opinions out there and and the the best we can do is move forward with the the the mix of opinions that we have um am I to respond yes of course okay um okay so I guess my question and I appreciate that I understand it um I'll Echo what TJ and M said because after listening to last night's select board meeting I walked away saying okay I guess dead in the water we're not doing override both both Carol and Kate you know very clearly stated that we don't need the override this year it's it's going to be like for the FY 26 budget and so I think that's kind of that took the wind out of our sales um I will admit it was a little bit disappointing because I spent a lot of time you know learning how to create website code and do all the the fun things that take more my job for this week um we then today heard I think it's Lou Franco I believe um said that in order to have a successful override one that passes it has to be an override amount that sustains us not just for next year but for years we need to be able to plan for the future and the budget that you know the 7 800 even a million that doesn't seem like the budget that plans for the future that seems like the barebones budget to not have to cut very critical positions for next year so what is this longer term plan great question and who can we work with to get that am because that's what we like to do we don't want to do this every year either we just don't have a stand for it so if I could just offer an opinion here and this is back to the messiness of the process right like and and and the problem with perfect I respectfully disagree with Mr Franco I don't think a moonshot is a path to success I I think that if we were to say okay the Delta between the town manager budget and the full Esser budget plus planning for inflation for the next two years or whatever it is that has a chance of passing of 0.0 like there it it will be interpreted as the school committee has their head in their clouds and they're dreaming like and we unfortunately do not have a a finan we we don't have the ability to pass an override this year that projects something that is greater than 2 and a half% next year or the year after that or the year after that that is the that is the legislative box that we're in and and I just don't think that we are that that we will be putting ourselves on a path to success to do something that does not that that we cannot sit here and say this is something that I would vote for because I think that it is a financially responsible path and the school committee who are the stewards of our money in a big chunk of our of our town budget uh is doing right by our wallets and so I I just I understand the theory behind the moonshot but I don't think that the the in this case the theory and practicality come together I I just I don't I don't see that happening um Mrs brzowski it's also hard there's no right answer there's no I went looking I went on newspaper archives to look for news of overrides in towns in our town and towns like ours and coverage of the overrides and people's letters to the editor and 1982 and man people did not like prop 2 and a half back then either um there is no right answer there's things you can learn from history but there is no right answer there's I can't find a single thread of this is the right amount this is what you should go for some places go for the moonshot and it works in that time and place and some places go for minimal so this is really hard because there is no no right answer there's just the answer we're going to choose and we're going to get behind tonight hopefully and then we're going to move forward but it is it is hard because there is no right answer and we are beholden to the town they they give us the money we we don't control the town's per strings they give us the money and we are we can advocate for more money you guys have done a fantastic job of advocating for more money um but at the end of the day we get what we get and we we can complain and we will complain but we're we're beholden to that side of things too we are just a department in the town and a lot of these issues are town finance issues that need to be dealt with at a town level not our level but for right now I we do need to go forward with an override I I do think that one thing that we have learned from this um you know there there's a history of working in the taxonomy that the superintendent explained earlier presenting a 2.5% budget and then a a needs-based budget and then a you know a strategic budget that aligns with the school committee's goals and all those kinds of things um that was based on you know a practice of Goodwill and and you know the expectation that we would come to something that was workable and that everybody was in it for the common good and I I do think that we have had a break down this year in in that trust and and you know I we need to have an after action when this is said and done sometime after May 4th and determine how we're going to play the game next year because you know uh today sitting here on on March 20th my position is the superintendent works for me and she doesn't work for the town manager and she's going to present the budget that we tell her to present and when to present it um that that's where we're at today on March 20th and and you know until such time as we can rebuild that trust that that's where I'm at yeah okay I have one followup and I promise I'm muting myself this will be quick um and thank you all for the thoughtful responses it's very helpful I guess my question going back to last week just so that I can hear people say the words is so not last week last night so last night and I know um Carol that you addressed that earlier well understand that words can carry a lot of meaning but so last night Carol um and uh Dr Burnham presented the budget they got some extra money to make up that to close the gap and both said we don't need an override this year so I just want to confirm that if this group of parents it's on the transcript continues um continues to push for the override and to advocate for it would both Carol and Kate advocate for the override this year if we're able to be successful let let me I apologize a million times for my wording of last night no that's my my I'm sorry to bring it up again we we need an override there's no question in order to have a thoughtful correct number that will carry us through decade a decade we need more time to figure it out and that was really what I wanted to say or what my brain where my brain was it came out wrong obviously I vot I said I would support an override I intend very much to vote for this override I intend to hold a sign at the voting Plaza for this override we're ready to order them well I'd be happy to put one in my yard but but I it came out upside down and backwards last night we did not plan on presenting I had no idea that question was coming my way I apologize I obviously have created all kinds of trouble and I did not mean to my my thought is we don't have enough money people are organizing an override I'm going to go with the override but I did not say that loud and proud enough last night and I will make that correction at fincom tomorrow evening thank you and I don't know if Dr Burnham is allowed to respond or not well she's allowed to of course um I do not recall making any comment relative to an override um I believe somebody asked asked about the Gap and I said I would figure it out and fill the Gap and you see how I fill the Gap yeah do you support an over expense lines would you support an override if you could asked me that six years ago I would have said yes if we go back to my initial my very first budget presentation here crystal clear to me it's a revenue issue for the town there is not enough Revenue there is not and I have said that internally for my team for my entire tenure here so if an override could be successful then we would have more money 110% I would support and override anything that helps get us more funding so that I can have proper Staffing and have proper expense lines to make sure that I can pay all the bills and keep the facility safe and clean for all the kids and the staff 110% and I I am sure that I I never said we don't need any more money because I certainly do not believe that so if you're asking me I am 110% behind an override for as much funding as we can possibly get to maintain the Staffing levels that we need to meet the needs of kids and give them a safe environment a proper environment for learning that's my life's work that that is my life's work my challenge is always been what's the budget going to be if this is the funding and that's why my team and I have gone after as many grants as we have so that we can find alternate funding sources to maintain Staffing levels or move on curriculum so on and so forth yes I will never turn down money for schools ever and yes I am 110% behind a movement that would get us more Revenue to support a healthier budget for the schools yeah it's clear it's needed well I appreciate you both um and I will put myself on mute thank you all so much for the time thank you thank you hey Cil uh Cil Koffman 27 oav and deference to our select board member who let me cut in line I will be very quick um I don't know what it is about the microphones in in this town but I'm super tired of everyone behind them lecturing me about how democracy Works how philosophy works we need action do better do better guys we're trying to help you do better thank you okay is that okay yeah was I'm planning on speaking tonight but I feel I need to um M ke6 Iris Court speaking just on my own as myself um so where to start so my goal from the beginning since this whole budget process start was to get to the need bace which I think is the pink okay and I've said this before but everyone may not have seen or heard what I said um a few reasons for wanting to do that one very practical so we go to town meeting whatever budget goes to town meeting if an override doesn't pass you're stuck with that budget okay so that's one motivator to get to the needs base because I think that is something you can be stuck with for a year as opposed to the school committee had already said no support for the 2.94% budget and I think there was something in between I don't remember the other um reason for doing it is uh the smaller the override amount I think the more appetite to pass or better chance so it's a win-win right if it doesn't pass okay we got something we can live with if it and then you're also asking for slightly less to get where you want to be all of that said I don't think this override is enough to carry Beyond ear I think it's very shortsighted um and I am and i' I've said this last night and I am I really want to come probably June after the election um see a task force of all the key players representatives from all the key committees residents to look globally because and I'm not going to say townside school I'm really really changing my language and I think having that cross Department cross function whatever you want to call it task force will help to see the overall picture and and we have a lot of stuff coming up I mean if you think this year was tough this ain't nothing compared to what I am expecting um and I think having the time to thoughtfully do it not just coming up with numbers okay you we'll give that much we'll give up this so you can have that looking for synergies changing what we're doing anything trash anything any synergies that can be gained across the entire town because there's one pot of money and that pot is not big enough um luckily this year we had some arpa that we could use to shrink this Gap it is a total band-aid and I actually I mean in discussions with um with the chair and superintendent talking about arpa I mean we we talked about the ears that's pretty clear that's a onetime thing but when we were talking about the sidewalk funds what could we use we went I remember we sat there we went line by line what what is a non-recurring expense and we were talking about possibly coming up with a project um that Encompass maintenance across all the schools so you would have this you know dedicated pot and ARA money would go there and you would use that to do maintenance because I think that also would help with next year you get back back on track with maintenance and and service and you know that would would help but for whatever reason that that didn't go through and it end up being Chromebooks so at least it helped shrink the Gap um I've talked to the town manager when this started about trying to reduce things the the pavement management is for $50,000 um she had initially proposed paying for the 911 out of the free cash I believe which would have to go to town meeting floor which we all know that's risky so anyway so so where we've landed today as I think a $60,000 Gap right to get to KN spased and I I feel like we can get there I still feel like we can get there I think we haven't I think there's still things information believe it or not coming in more there's local receipts we haven't even heard from the Personnel committee yet I know there's issues on that with respect to the salary grid um so I'm sure there's more shoes to drop good bad um I wrote down some other oh the other thing that talked so also with next year I want I mean the whole state aid this is just this is not sustainable the busing situation not sustainable I mean there's so many things I mean it's it's not just it's not just raising awareness here it's really banging on the doors on Beacon Hill I mean it's it's just not going to last and regionalization I've talked with um the chair about that I know years ago it was brought up and it didn't pass I think if if we were regionalized it would be a little we'd be a little better off today um so there's a lot a lot of things to look at to ask about and that all takes time and a lot of it is not going to be fixed even in in a year State a do you think that's going to be fixed in a year I don't think so um but it doesn't mean you don't you don't take just because the Journey's long you don't take the journey you don't take that first step because if you don't take that first step you never get there so that's really what I I'm going to I'm going to push I you know this US versus them and I just I really want to stop that narrative and I want to just have a unified effort to have a longer term Vision come to a solution we have a lot more of a Runway to come up with next year's you know budget planning I mean this year we didn't even have the new growth wasn't certified what was less than a month ago I mean this year has just been like a week ago yeah so this this year yeah is not is not helping us I mean we we would still have Revenue issues and budget issues but um it's compressed into the short timeline which is makes it so much more painful so much more stressful um having to act without all the information um it's out of our control but you know it it we don't like it but I can't change it um so I think I was just listening to various comments I think I touched on everything that I wanted to touch on not necessarily in an organized manner but um yeah my I if we can get to the need space I think Tony I'll volunteer to be on the Joint Committee even though it's during the summertime even though I am done with meetings and I know they're all going to take a long time if thank you if you if you tell me that it's going to fix a problem I I I can't promise it's going to fix a problem but I mean what else howse it can't get worse how could get worse how else what else do we do do otherwise we're going to be back here next year and it's just going to be uglier next year I pledge you I give you my time you organize it I'll be there getting people's time is uh I appreciate the long-term approach and the and the thought to long-term planning I've been frustrated a long time with the town and how we approach problems as a reaction rather than being proactive about knowing things are coming so I do appreciate a longer term view especially like the buildings that they all tie in together so it's complicated it's it's not easy it's a giant juggling act that everyone is complaining about while you're doing it yeah it's not easy but and and not everyone's going to be happy if we get to a solution it's just to be clear not everybody's going to be happy compromis but that's but thank you I I appreciate it no so I don't know well I haven't I mean I've taken up a lot of a lot of a lot of people's time that's right we appreciate it let's go find $60,000 it smells like $60,000 um yeah the chapter 90 there are some projects I know queued up um and that is something I know I've asked um bill on the Storm waterer Task Force if we can address chapter 90 for that so after but that's going to be after to meeting um uh I want to say there's an ADI sidewalk and I can't remember but I the town manager did bring it up at AEL meeting or something Bridges and covers oh so the infrastructure in town yeah um issue expensive issue um so there's there's a lot of there a lot of things going on I don't and there's also with the the water district and posos and treatment facilties so that's another thing that's separate from the town but is going to hit town residents so so there's a lot of moving Parts a lot going on um so just I I ask people just to keep an eye on the big picture um some some compromises will need to be made but if we come out the other side better for it overall I think those compromises are worth it so I don't know if you guys have any questions no we thank you I do have one question are we R A daylight tonight I I just check she's going to make sure that they don't turn off because we really have to finish this we can't stop cuz the lights go out and tomorrow is going to be another late night so tomorrow night once again yes let's get out of here let's get out thank you Renee thank you Renee for your support and your Creative Solutions Mary I wasn't going to say anything either uh Mary foil 985 fla Hill Road um and I I wasn't uh going to say anything uh hopefully I'll be quick and concise um first of all and I get these are long meetings and clearly I like to talk as well um but I would ask that sometimes maybe members of the committee think about edification and time um and that again I like to talk but we just careful about how much time we're spending with our own thoughts so that other people have a chance to speak um all right what I'm going to throw out now this is really was my plan um to say this is I'm going to say something and I preface I'm not expecting people to be opras on this um but we do have an interesting dichotomy where select board and the town works very separately from school committee um and school committee has rights and privileges that other committees do not have and that's especially interested when it's interesting when it's an elected uh position as opposed to appointed positions that some other municipalities have for their school board so I think I think what we're seeing there is that that for lack of other words power struggle in that dcom I think that's playing out a little bit and so I do agree selectboard members M Key's comments about working together in big picture so I fully believe in keeping that big picture in mind and I think there's a practical standpoint but I think you all as as school committee members have a a philosophical standpoint as well um and maybe I guess I'm encouraging for those to coexist and I think that's what a lot of people who have put a lot of time on the override committee we're feeling frustration over I think they actually do understand the Practical standpoint but that philosophical standpoint um they want to see more of where do you stand on a philosophical standpoint about the schools and the function and purpose of schools um we've actually talked about this in class in roundabout ways um and I keep saying the comment of and it's it sounds like a really simple sentence but I don't think it's it's simple you know School committees really you fall in one or two one of two places as a school Committee Member do you believe that the purpose of school committee is to work within the bounds that the town gives you or do you believe that the school committee's purpose is to advocate for the schools that children deserve uh and what I actually heard from quite a few people tonight is that yeah the kids deserve it but this is where we're at but this is where we're at um and I think the select board member m brought up a good point of working together if we we can I'll throw myself out there as Union president too if we can work together gather other towns clearly there's bigger changes that need to happen um but I think that keep in mind where you stand and I'm not assuming where people stand on this I think different members would give me different answers um to that question um but I think the people who are doing some of the groundw in in trying to get Town's people more involved are just feeling a frustration of not as the word was said before passion um and not feeling that idea of where do you fall philosophically not just practi thank you thank you hi sh M 139 cover so what I'm going to say was an unintended consequence certainly unintended by you guys and Miss memy of making making sure the bottom doesn't fall out of the school has put the public perception of the override in a very bad position and that's what has gotten those of us that are working to pass an override very frustrated and upset because whatever the exact words were last night the sentiment was thank you we might be okay now and and it's very clear that all of you agree that we are not okay philosophically practically or otherwise that's clear now however what we are going to try to do is to present to the 10,000 or so people maybe fewer I'm not sure that there is a clear need a need for more money to fund the schools and so now the messaging is difficult and there are people not on our committee or in this room just people out there who are saying you really need more than you're asking for and so that's where we are right now we need to be able to put forth a clear message backed by the school committee and in support of the superintendent's budget that the need is real and that if a certain amount of money is granted it will be sufficient to meet the needs of the school and so I I think I'm summing up what we're we're asking for here is help us help you so that's I will leave it at that Thank You original all right wasn't Jerry McGuire but it was uh oh Gooding J I'll make a motion to close the public session uh section of the budget hearing second all those in favor nobody over I okay so we will close this section of the budget hearing how are we on lights okay I just we just made sure that the lights won't go out can I can I make another motion can we a anything else other than the budget today I mean we've just got we anything except the things we absolutely have to do there are a couple of things that absolutely have to be done but they're quick all right I think when we get to them we can talk about whether it be want to do a take why not yeah yeah I make a motion that the school committee to approve the superintendent so-called needs-based budget the pink one the pink one we can write that into the motion the pink one uh at an amount of 24,1 23,5 48 I'll second thought I'll second any discussion about that yes all right Mr lman um I wanted to start off by uh I appreciate the comments from the the public tonight and uh throughout the whole process um I felt like at this time after closing the uh the public portion this was the time for debate and have those discussions uh that was one of the reasons why I haven't talked about which budget I support publicly um until now um I know it's been a stressful season budget season um I think I want to thank the the superintendent the admin team um for putting in the work uh answering all the questions um at the the finance committee meeting I think they they asked very uh good questions and I thought that the superintendent and her team had excellent ANS to all the questions and that there was no no funding that no line items that were needed to get cut that there was uh appropriate line items for all the all the budget um I also wanted to thank um Miss arbo and the superintendant for the negotiating through the process um because I think the town manager budget has increased a lot more than we've seen in many years um so looking at the 4.19% um I want to thank Miss arino and the superintendent for the work on that uh and also um the select board select board member m ke too um I think the townwide override uh need is definitely there um I had watched the the YouTube video earlier today and then I wanted again to see it again just to see the specific words but miss Areno did say that she was speaking as one person um at the meeting and I think we've seen it before with members on this committee too speaking about overrides um but we are one committee we vote as one committee um she does speak for the committee but she specifically said um in her opinion um as that one member um and I think we've seen it too with um even the select board that the loudest member of the select board doesn't always have the agreement of the other select board members it is a select board decision um I also agreed with Miss memy I think um a smaller amount might be more palatable for the um for an override so I I'm also excited that the town manager and the select board have increased that uh preliminary budget um I I love the idea of a task force as well for that long-term planning I think that's vital because these budgets do not show that and I think even the override that's potentially whatever the number that is it's not going to be that long-term funding of the schools I also think it's really important that the town and the citizens know what the town manager proposed 4.19% budget is and the cuts associated with it so they can make a true decision on the override um we knew that the eser funds were going to get cut um and one of the the reasons that that's one of the reasons why I support the 8.62% budget the the blue budget I think the the cuts are still massive in the needs-based 5.44% budget and I don't think that's appropriate for our students um so I will not support that I think the the 20 plus cuts are are too much for our schools and our students and our staff um and I think it also hurts the override uh that the the if the school committee supports a 5.44% um and I don't want to go to the town meeting arguing and trying to steal funds from another department I think we move on to the override and I think that we'll let the town vote on it uh the finance committee had given data on this that there were 3155 attempts since 2015 and that 221 of them had passed which was % rate there was also data that 82 out of 128 were for schools and that was a 64% pass rate um so again I think it makes sense for the school committee to support the 8.62% budget we know exactly what the budget cuts are going to be um if the override doesn't pass and that's that town manager 4.19% maybe it goes up in the meantime but the town will know what the cuts are um and they can make an educated decision on whether they want the override so Brian can I just ask a clarifying question by supporting the um 8 point whatever it is 8.62% budget you're not anticipating trying to get that out of the Town manager before town meeting correct I don't think that's feasible in the neither do I in the town government so the thought would be in your I just want to make sure I have this straight so the thought is if we go for this 8.62% budget but knowing that the if the override shouldn't pass we would end up with the 4.19 budget potentially potentially and I've seen the numbers go up every week yeah but but if we do that the number won't go up that's my my thought if we it it's a tricky thing to try to figure out what to do because and I don't know which way I would lean I'm perfectly Frank I don't know if I would lean to the pink or the blue so if we if we go after the needs-based budget it is possible we could attain that that is close enough that that I don't know if we would if if I met with the town manager again and and and see what we we could do with that we could somehow find The [Music] $64,000 that's possible I think the blue budget voting for that makes a bigger statement that the other one is not good enough so that that's where my head is after your comments and I will call on Peter if you don't have a comment back to me I think the only issue I would have is that if we're passing the 5.4% and we get it more likely to not pass the override that's what we're living with I don't want to live with that okay all right y I get that point Peter I respect your opinion I I just I the the logic does not connect for me I I I think we need the 8.62% like I I agree with you on the top line I think that the the problem is is that what that vote effectively does and I don't I want use your exact words because I don't recall them but you're effectively saying we want to support a budget that we know is not feasible the budget that we have to pass here is the budget is is is the expectation that we are going to actually operate with a budget that comes out of town meeting and and in a scenario where a override does not pass at least that's my interpretation of the the most efficient course that we can be on we can do anything we want we can pass a budget that isn't feasible and say that the only reason the only way to get there is an override but what that effectively does is says we'll take whatever you give us Mrs Lemieux between now and then and and that is not a position that I'm willing to take because I think as I've said all along I think that there is a tremendous amount of risk associated with an override I don't you know I I don't think it will pass I will vote for it I will support it I think we need it but I am unwilling to say in the interim we'll take whatever we can get thank you very much and be very consilio as I think was the nature of the conversation last night I just don't think that that's the right path I think I think we need to continue to pressure and leverage our position for as long as it takes over the course of the next six weeks between now and com Tony can we instead of saying we want this budget can we say we will take no less than this what you mean so if like if what I don't want to happen is that we vote for the blue and end on the green right but if we if we vote for instead of saying we vote for the blue or we vote vote for the red say we will our budget will be uh we will not accept anything less than red instead of saying we pick this budget because then we split the difference but then we don't know what that is look we have we have already said we want we have already if we set a if we set a floor that is the floor though effectively the motion that I made my intent what what what we're saying here is that is the floor it's not 23.8 it's 24.1 that's the floor we have already said we need an override which is Esser minus level Services minus Esser yeah so I I think when you put those two things together the messaging is pretty clear right which is the floor is 24.1 the ask is 24.8 so I guess my counter would be what makes it that the town manager just doesn't say fine we'll give you 4.19 thank you you know I mean whatever it it is what it is but I intend to go to town to town meeting and fight for 24.1 if I don't get it between now and then that is my intent and I would like to have the full force and effect of the school committee behind me saying that that is the floor and moving items from other departments absolutely that's where we're at that is where we're at thanks to the town manager and the chairman of the select board that is where we're at that is the position that they have put us in Carol is that right that that would be the only other option if if we well what would happen is if we vote for the pink budget and we do the very best lobbying we can with the town manager and the um chair select board and we can't find The $64,000 what happens is one of two things either we end up with the green budget because that is what the town manager put on the floor or as Peter says we would go to town meeting and say um we're taking 60 we would like to to uh we have to keep the budget balanced so we would say we would like to take $4,840 P management which I assume is where it would come from but you people necessarily you could adjust the revenue line I don't know whatever you could adjust the revenue line for for for local receipts and move the revenue there and take it put it in schools you could do the payment management there's a variety of other other other places and take from it's not the it's not just the 64,000 it's also you want to go after the arpa money it's the arpa money because it puts us at a disadvantage next year from a budgeting standpoint right we're we're already the green budget puts us behind the eightball next year because that budget is largely supported by arpa money and and there in lies the problem we are if if we live with that budget we are already substantially year I I understand the pink budget puts us in a better situation for an override because we can say if we don't get the override these are the cuts we have to make well the same would be with the green I mean we it's more I mean I'd ra rather have the pink yeah but I don't want to vote on the green budget so can we ask for opinions of people here no I think we it's opinion doubt all what if we ask them not as people but as representatives of group one person here represents a very large like Wheel of Fortune stuff I what what is your specific question Tony yeah ask the committee okay ask us I will ask the committee do you think that the contingency of parents that are supporting the override would prefer us to vote in favor of the red but or the pink budget knowing that that gives us a stop Gap that's better than the green budget and then I would also ask the committee if you were to opine as to how the teachers would feel would they prefer a red budget or a blue budget cuz like I I heard what the citizen who's a teacher said about our role and I am firmly in the camp of the second kind so like part of me says I agree with Brian let's send them a message but I'm also concerned based on what you and Peter have said that that might be impractical well I I so how how did the committee project those two contingent groups work look back to my earlier comment there is no perfect here there there's no way we're going to please everybody with this particular issue I I think that from the standpoint of an override see we just be guessing because none of us have really lived been in the middle of this before I believe unless I speak out of term when I was a kid my parents were yeah yeah yeah see and I wasn't involved so I mean we can we can guess and we don't know the bearer the bones the more need for an override it's it's you know what it is Peter uh sorry Tony it's what's the chance you want to take do you want to take the chance that the override passes and and we don't have to worry about this green budget or do you want to take the chance that it doesn't pass but the pink budget is there I they're not that different in in bottom line you know the the bottom line is not that different and I mean that the S funds I I assume oh I can't assume anything Delta is the ARA funds I the sorry the the OPA funds if we were to pass the pink budget there is no way that I can negotiate from the town the difference with the APPA funds I don't think that that's true I I think that what we're saying is that the green budget is not acceptable well and I agree the green budget is not acceptable and don't want to go there there is opportunity to come closer between now and May 4th but my stand today is 24123 548 now if somebody can propose something that moves me closer to 23837 94 like I mean let's have that discussion and continue to negotiate but today my position is the 241 so you're pink I'm pink okay that was the motion that is the motion that's on the floor that I think you seconded so but Brian's made really good comments I'm pink I want blue I think blue is the bare minimum budget for this I sorry pink is the bare minimum I think blue is when we don't make cuts too many cuts and I think it's ridiculous I think it's bad that we're making Cuts I think that we're going backwards I want the I want us to go forward and progress I think it's awful we're going backwards but um I'm I'm pink because I think that's what we're going to get closest to while still maintaining we're not happy with the green budget and I think we're going to go for the override and the paint gives us a list of if we don't get the I mean blue still does too and I don't think we're gonna get I think pink says you're not going for an override I think pink says we can settle with pink and I think the parents going what if we what if we amended Peter let me ask you this if I asked to I make a motion to amend Peter's motion to say we vote for the pink and support the override we're doing that well yeah I mean we would support the override we have said that' already make it part of the emphatic yeah make it part of the mess I mean our our statute statutory statutory statutory yes statutory role here is to pass a budget yeah the override piece we're going to talk about after we pass I don't know that because there there's there's a certain amount of legal enforcement that comes with this vote which is this is the budget that we've agreed to until we change it so so I think I I I completely agree with your intent Tony I think it needs to be done through two different actions two different actions okay I would agree so there's a motion on the table there is a motion on the table I seconded and the motion is seconded I think we're ready to vote nobody wants to vote I'm ready if Peter's ready I'm not ready either no I said I think we're ready to vote you think you're ready I don't think I am but okay I unless is on the other the discussion I'm still stuck between pink and blue it's hard there's no right answer because they're all bad options they're all bad options we're not getting enough money to fund the school next year we're not you know what you just made decided my vote okay well did you decide what I want sorry oh no you changed your vote no I didn't I'm sorry I've been waffling I've been waffling so I've waffled all over the place that just principal star just gave me a really I feel like you got you got more of this you got more to say no I don't want to say anything else I just swore okay okay um give it detention after so the um do we want to do this one at a time explain it or do we just want to do it vot just okay are we voting for colors or yes or no colors the motion motion is to vote on think we should have a roll call which is the 5.44% budget that is the motion for a recomended budg can you say what the vot's for the the vote is for the the pink needs-based budget 5.44% for 24,1 12,548 like to amend amend the motion to do a roll call vote fine with that I'm okay with that y all right then so pink you go first yes yes for the pink all right yes yes Tony yes no yes okay so we go for the pink then and and I want to make clear it's this is not ideal these are all bad options they're all bad but we will go with the pink and um see if we can scr up the money and see what we can do I will go on record as saying though I I I am will not I would not be pleased with with stealing money from other departments to do so we have to find a way to legitimately come up with this money so just my own personal thought doesn't mean that isn't what happens we have work to do we have work to do that's what that means we have work to do okay so the next thing we have to do um with this vote comes we have to figure out the override number which I figured out a different way now I got to refigure but um I would say it's still going to be the difference between that blue and the green though it is the difference between the blue and the green don't you think we need talk about whether we want to do s or not actually or sorry we should have a we should have a discussion about it so if we assume which may be incorrect that the amount we are getting from the town manager in the green budget oh yeah we have to stick to the green budget 23,8 37,900 or $94 that does that number does not include the arpa funding and I so we want to add that in I don't no because the arpa funding is not reoccurring so keep the difference so I want to keep the arpa money out of that because we don't get the arpa money next no that's what I put it in the over so it should be it should be blue minus green I think it should be the purple blue minus green I think it should be the Gap from LSS and I the million dollars it's yeah I've got it as um 1 million $12,950 and that is the amount that I feel very strongly we should go for yeah it's I would agree it's relatively close to a million so it's a easy number to digest it's not overwhelmingly large so people can't stomach I know wait wait the 12,000 so before we get to that yeah I I think that given where how things have transpired over the course of the last um several weeks I think that coming up with a hard number is fine but and we have to for Tuesday night but but the the point is is that if the number changes between now and Tuesday if if the green line changes between now and oh and Tuesday you should be authorized to change the number to account for whatever that changes yes yes that's right until Tuesday and then Tuesday after Tuesday I think it's notifying the select board if this changes the numbers but I still have that concern of if they're going to use say arpa money then we don't really want to make those changes yeah yeah yeah so I mean but but I think Carol you understand the guidance well I understand what you're saying is that so we could once again it is the um Esser funds uh the level service minus Esser and then the difference between that and the 4.19 budget which does not include the APPA funds correct correct so if the 4.9 one9 budget should local receipts come in and they say here take 30% $30,000 more then that 30,000 would be includ would be added to the 4.19 but we want the oper funding which wee appreciate in this Ridiculousness of this situation but we don't want that counted in an override correct because that is not sustainable forre and I I also think given that logic we had agreed last time to use round numbers I don't think we should this time I think that I I think that what we need to show here is is that you know we're we're working in the margins right now and and also we have a real number wherever they bring us that's the number yeah can you tell me that number again so today it's $1,295 I would second that one so do we need to make a motion okay I think we need to make a motion to make a motion because vote on the APPA funds is not on our agenda and I think we're okay because it changed because of the budget so it would be a vote to reconsider so I think we need a vote to reconsider our number for the um for the override I motion that we the number for the O we all voted for it okay all those in favor okay now um we need a motion for the override I move that we uh propose an override to the select board for consideration as a warrant article and a bid question uh to support school funding above the town manager's budget in the amount of 1,1 122,50 second second you can take that one second okay all those in favor I'm just going to write down what you said so I can one million now we just have a couple things we do have to do all right the first thing we do have to do is we have to um vote on the student Opportunity Act because that is due in Boston so we can't lose side of that one um and we're all done with this budget business right yeah okay so check so um the student go ahead about the student Opportunity Act just remind that was shared with everyone at the last meeting it's been posted online um any comments online we've been checking the email nothing's come in um and as i' you know explained it for the last kind of call for any feedback it really is a template that's been provided by the department of Ed and there's a menu of allowable options for districts to consider for incorporation into their plan so what kind it didn't come up just from I move to approve as presented second all those in favor I I okay um the next thing we absolutely have to do is we have to take a vote to pull the war article asking for8 82,9 from free cash to um fund the network security it has been funded out of ARA that's redundant has that vote been made we we we voted to put that warrant article on the warrant and it's it's there did the select voted to give us the money and and they said when we were they were going through their aren't tical they said we believe you have to vote to retract this okay but is this a have they voted to appropriate the arpa funds for this purpose oh yes okay yes yes that vote was taken last night absolutely I missed that yeah that no problem so we do need to vote to pull this warrant article I'll make a motion to uh pull the War uh to pull the warrant article as it has been funded by alternate means second second all those in favor okay and one other vote we have to take tonight is to change the sidewalk funding it was unclear whether it was necessary or not but better to do it than have somebody say you never because we it was our um our article our uh request for Opa funding for the sidewalks to go from Turkey Hill Road to Marshal Pac that was our request W for funding and it was funded so um the funding for the sidewalks now since we have taken that Opa funding for our budget is coming out of chapter 90 funding so we need to vote they weren't sure if we needed to because it's a select board at their whim how they spend their Opa funds but since it had been awarded they they felt that we needed to vote to um change our um to eliminate the need for Opa funding for sidewalks and to put that need towards our budget so I should have asked this question by the last vote but I'll ask it this time I mean we have not formally accepted the arpa funds to support our budget in fact we just took an action to do just the opposite so I that's the reality of the situation right so I I now that being said I'm okay with I'm okay with saying that the sidewalks can be taken care of with you know as part of our $1.98 million in chapter 90 money and and allowing the you know and releasing that money for the select board to do what they see fit with it but but what I don't think is is that this should be considered or our previous vote like that that we've resolved that the arpa money is specifically for these budgetary purposes but the thing is if we don't do that then and we end up with that 4.19% budget which could happen yeah we need that we need the money yeah so we have to do that I I I understand the logic and but there is some there is some internal conflict in in your thought process but but I I I understand the logic and I I would just stipulate that the the previous logic around the budget holds right around around our priorities so yes I motion to approve the reallocation of $1,640 previously allocated for sidewalks to the school department um that the select board voted on Tuesday night and and the sidewalk funding to come from chapter 90 and the sidewalk funding to come from chapter 90 which I'm not sure we can control really we can't I'll second so by the way chapter 90 is completely at the discretion of the Town manager she doesn't even require a vote from the select board okay but we we have a motion and all those in favor I okay is there anything else do we have to do the Costa Rica trip tonight we do okay then we have to do the Costa R trip tonight can't make them wait I got to go we could FL to Custer I'm in favor of that one make a motion to flly Custer um so the information is there anybody online that's going to tell us anything about it or we just reading it and noer lber high school I am here the tri um I did send some information to miss Peterson so I am not sure if You' had a chance to look it over yet um and I'm not this is my first time doing a final approval so I'm not actually sure what you want me to talk to well we did get this afternoon um the itinerary and the general family information as well as another file talking about um who was chaperoning and what your agenda is requiring travel y um does anybody have have any questions from M Redford about the Costa Rica trip it all looked very well organized and laid out to me I did look at it this afternoon I love that they have to show passports to board the bus I feel like that is something learned from necessity um I that is something that my colleagues suggested um I I think kind of a policy that we have just to make sure nobody accidentally leaves it home absolutely good idea who hold to their passports while they're traveling um the students do uh sometimes they're locked in the hotel safe um I think each travel company handles that differently that was something that we had spoken to parents about um for example the kids aren't not going to be having their passports in their pocket while they off the zip line um so we just kind of play that by ear depending on the activities um and the uh just what they're involving um are we swimming that day things like that okay any other questions um I want to wish you all luck and I think it's going to be a great CH trip I am going to abstain uh for the reasons that I gave when this originally came up I'll make a motion to give final approval for the Costa Rica trip I'll second all those in favor I I and one exstension okay well good luck and have fun thank you very much we will travel safe okay the area funding here was just a repeat of that there I don't think we have to do that right we can do spring athletic reports the next time and I think it said action we don't need to action the spring out no we don't no I didn't think so okay just make it sure don't want to leave anything out okay public comments is there anyone with the public comment left just I just want I just want to make sure it's clear you get to make all the public comments you want no don't you really don't want to say that um I just want to make sure it's it's clear with the arpa money that 145,00 195 were given to the two earmarks right the 911 compliance and cyber security upgrade so those correct are non-recurrent correct right so of the recurring cost that went to the Chromebooks 75,4 correct so I don't know if you want to adjust your Baseline for the override amount by that or I don't no you want to lump the whole thing for the reason that I gave earlier tonight which is I think that next year there's going to be another 911 and something else like it under a different name this is a I just want to make sure you're you were aware that all of the arpa wasn't going I understand I understand that entirely I I just I I don't I understand that these specific items are not recurring but given the size of our facilities and properties and and operations what we have found during my tenure on the school committee the the first month I was on the school committee we lost a panel in Turkey Hill that would that could have been a catastrophic kind of thing so we we need to have a basis for Building Maintenance that and one-time cost and compliance that that incorporates that it gives us the ability to absorb these things and and I don't get me wrong when push comes to shove I'll take the money but right now I think that we need raise and appropriate supported money raise and appropriate supported money to do this okay and I think Building Maintenance is going to become an issue next year if we go for forward with the municipal building project we need to take care of our buildings and we're going to need money to do that and right now we're we're running on very thin margins um and this builds in a little bit of ping for that which is probably going to get eaten up by Turkey Hill because okay I just wanted to make that make sure that was clear NOP that's clear okay then I'm assuming we're skipping committee report L has his hand up oh L I'm sorry L I couldn't see you the screen was gone go ahead no problem uh so I just wanted to say you know just a sort of a wrap up of all the discussion I'm actually glad to see the ask be higher in keeping with my comments earlier uh and I understand the logic that a smaller ask has a better chance of passing I get that logic but I actually believe that a an ask on solid footing and a good case made for that ask is actually more compelling than a smaller amount that's so I think a bigger ask with a very good case is the way to go so um that's all and and uh it seems like you got there basically thank you anybody else missed okay um I have a lot of topics for future discussion but we'll leave that for another time and um it looks like I'll make a motion to adjourn at 10:14 p.m. second all those in favor