H City commission meeting to order at 5:30 p.m. this time we have our invocation followed by the uh Pledge of Allegiance let's pray together father thank you for this time to come and to discuss the business for the city of Lin Haven ask oh God that you would anoint us now with your wisdom that you would fill our minds with your words that you would fill our hearts with your desires that we might make decisions according to your will it's in Christ's name we pray amen this time we open the floor for public commentary please state your name and address for the record and address your concerns to the chair Jody Moore on amher Street um guess you guys were bored or you missed me or something like that I don't I'm not sure um the reason I'm coming is to discuss um what came came up on Friday about stopping uh citizens who don't live in linh Haven City Limits and I'm assuming business owners from coming to speak at these meetings so I just want to address that um I think this is a solution in search of a problem I'm not sure why this is even coming up and I'd really like to know the reasons so basically what you're doing if you discuss this pass this kind of thing um you're stopping people who live in College Point like me surrounded by lyh Haven people who live behind the proposed grease Pro that you all passed that you think is a good idea um you're stopping them from coming unless there's an agenda item so you want to limit speaking in open public commentary like I'm doing right now um so you're stopping people from doing that these are your friends and neighbors and you want to keep them from doing that um you know I just I want to understand the real reasons why you want to do this um I've just giving you a downside of why that would be a bad idea so again I'm waiting to hear the discussion I think that this is limiting freedom of speech I don't know why anybody would be for this I understood um understand that Pat was actually not really in favor of this at least on Friday so that's a good thing for him so anyway like I said I'm waiting to hear to the discussion and I just want you to know that I'm very opposed to this thank you addition of public commentary Miss Walker 1106 Michigan Avenue here in linh Haven Florida 324 my question is very often on the agenda when uh it is under the city manager report the warrant list update I would like to ask questions but it appears that many past meetings it's not asked of the citizens in the audience if they would like to comment or if they have a question my so my question to you is before I do it again during tonight's meeting can the citizen question the warrant list not at this time it's something that we can follow up on so not ever at a commission meeting or not at this time I can question it during when it's un listed on the agenda what I'm saying is you're asking if you can come up and ask questions for the warrant list and what I'm saying is not at this time additional public commentary Jerry Parker R Place um I see repeatedly that y'all are continuing to give um projects to Chris forehand and what I would like to know and you can nod yourself yes or no um has anyone on this panel asked him what he got immunity for yes or no Amie thank you anyone else no Mr pebles have you asked him mayor have you asked him what he got immunity for you're not going to answer me you're just going to stare at me Vicki have you another stare Miss Vander have you asked Chris foran what he got immunity for for for his crimes against city of Lin Haven please ask address your questions to the chair not to every individual member I've mentioned that before well I think the city deserves that answer the citizens deserve an answer he committed a crime against the city of ly Haven that's what he got immunity for so y'all should let the citizens of Lin Haven know that public commentary Cory good evening Corey Lanford 11:12 Louisiana Avenue um I had an opportunity to listen to the pre-commission meeting that occurred on Friday um and I too wanted to come and at least voice my opinion on thoughts about who can and can't speak during public commentary um M commissioner perno I I wanted to say thank you for what you brought up during the meeting um I thought you brought some some very good points and some insight um as far as the signin sheet is concerned um I would be an advocate for signing in like right before the meeting commissioner pebles made a good point that you know if if there's something that you all want to follow up with us on um you know that would be that would be a good tool to to have our contact information to reach out to get some questions I don't believe it's a it's a good idea um to restrict people from outside of Lin Haven from speaking I understand I understand the why um but honestly I think there's going to be more negative publicity to the city of ly Haven by restricting people that don't live in Lin Haven speaking then it would beely just take what's what's said not saying that I agree or disagree with everything that's said in public commentary and I know that you all don't as well um but unfortunately I feel like it's kind of the nature of of feel like it's it's something that it's just going to have to happen um I don't I don't like it any more than the next person you know I my hope is is that that everybody brings some sort of construct uh process um I don't agree with with everybody up here on this on this uh commission or the mayor from from time to time or even miss Gainer um you know but you know we always are able to talk through things and come to some sort of solution in in some instances um and I've always appreciated the fact that you all are at least willing to listen so um thank you for allowing right now everyone to come up and and talk I hope that it remains that way um but I would be an advocate to to allow people to continue to come speak during public commentary even if they don't live in ly Haven perfect example if if I you know I drive to Tindle and back and forth every day um I drive through the city of Panama City uh Callaway Parker so on and so forth and you know if if there's something that affects me um every day and I feel like that I need to go to their one of their meetings I I would like to think that I could still go and make myself heard because I'm a I'm a user of of their of their um their cities so just something to just something to chew on as you guys think through this and then one final point I wanted to make is that there was a comment made that well you know if it's an individual that doesn't live in the city of ly Haven you know that it might sway our vote one way or the other because of something that an idea that they brought up again Mr thank you you know I think any of us would would be more than willing to hear all ideas um regardless of where you live so thank you'all I appreciate it additional public commentary Mr Walker Rich Walker 1106 Michigan Avenue Lin Haven um good evening um I heard that conversation by the young lady about the uh freedom of speech and I heard about the workshop and there was a rumor that you were discussing um uh uh changing the rules to have only citizens of Lin Haven to be able to do public commentary or speak at the meetings this has been tried before it didn't work um you're going to just in one instant disenfranchise a lot of people that are not citizens in Lin Haven but have to pay money who live in Haven you're going to direct them to do something without the right of representation that's against the law have no representation because you have to charge them for money for the water they get from Panama City but they're not allowed to come to this meeting and speak about it so you have done something or are contemplating doing something that is against a normal grain public speaking I hope you take in consideration these people that you're disfranchising citizens thank you thank you additional public commentary if not we'll move to the uh mayor's report just want to thank everyone that um has worked diligently over these past couple of weeks with the storm cleanup um think we had a a good outpouring from our staff and making sure that our streets were cleaned um expeditiously um and that reports were made thank you to the citizens for informing us as well of the different um issues and blockages that we're in this city so it definitely took all of us working together to get that taken care of and so um so thank you everyone for working together um with that um and also a thank you to our sister cities um that reached out during that time you know with well wishes as well as with you know um opening up their arms to assist wherever assistance was needed so thankfully we didn't need as much assistance in the city of ly Haven as some of our other sister cities did so very uh thankful for that as well and thank you to uh staff and citizens for uh great uh MLK celebration uh think city manager reported we had upwards of 4,000 people that came throughout that day um and so just a great turnout of unity um in our community um diversity on all fronts from the music to the food to just the attendance and so uh so just just a great time looking forward to um our future events in Sheron Sheffield as well as um our next um MLK celebration um this time we'll read our Proclamation for uh Black History Month and it reads whereas since 1976 every US president has officially designated the month of February as National Black History Month to honor and affirm the importance of black history throughout our American experience and whereas the United States joins other countries around the world devoting a month to recognize black history including Canada and the United Kingdom and whereas the observance of Black History Month began in 1926 when Harvard trained historian Carter G Woodson and Minister Jesse Morland sponsored the first national negro history week which was celebrated the second week in February and later in the 196 60s as part of the Civil Rights Movement the observance evolved into the black history month and whereas much of the city Lin Haven's honor strength and success can be attributed to the diversity of cultures and traditions that are celebrated by residents of this great City and whereas African-Americans have played significant roles and made lasting contributions to our City's history and the history of Florida's economic cultural spiritual and political development while working tily to contribute to every aspect of American society including business education politics sciences and the Arts and where as Black History Month is a time for all Americans to celebrate to remember the contributions and Legacy of those who helped to build our nation fought against Prejudice to secure lives of dignity and opportunity for all of our citizens Advance the cause of civil rights for all Americans and strengthen our families and communities now therefore I mayor Jesse Nelson and the city commission do hereby encourage all residents in the city of Lin Haven Florida to join me in honoring the many contributions made by African-Americans to our city state and nation and to participate in the many educational and inspirational events as we celebrate and proclaim the month of February as Black History Month and witness whereof I have set my hand and cause the C of the city of Lin Haven Florida to be a fixed this 23rd day of January 2024 this time we'll have a report by commissioner peoples thank you mayor first I wanted to to say thanks to Mr love Chuck for his time on the CRA Advisory Board um thanks for all you did also want to thank uh Miss Pamela folder for putting your application for the beautification board um I also attended the Martin Luther King Jr event fantastic event Well Done by everyone involved staff um vendors everybody that put that on it was a great event I brought my family and we had a good time uh I also want to say that on Saturday I'll be having um coffee at Sola from 8 to 9 if anyone wants to come out and talk to me about whatever's on your mind I'm going to try to start rotating local coffee shops every uh one Saturday every month so that we can meet face- tace dedicated time for whoever wants to come see me and talk about what's on your mind um also we had some citizens reach out to me about some minor U storm water stuff um and I just wanted to thank uh Mrs Gainer and Chris Lightfoot and everybody else that was involved that was able to get that resolved very quickly um and uh that's my report thanks thank you commissioner perno thank you mayor um I'd like to thank uh uh all the staff and uh and everybody who was involved with the Martin Luther King day um in Sheffield park it was uh it was it was really amazing so it was fun and uh those those boys from Mosley they rock the house Man Loose Cannon those uh their um homeschooled kids and they were playing Metallica man they were letting it go out there it was really cool uh but um and thank uh thank you Jody and Mr Cory because uh um I appreciate how y'all feel about about that um I think freedom of speech is something that we we need and we need more people participating in our meetings not less people but um uh as far as that goes um I wish I could remember what I said on Friday because I was tired from a road trip down south but but I I know um I I I know where where my heart is on that but um I do want to say thank you to everybody who who actually uh we we you had a lot of folks out there again people that work for our city are you know they're they're over and above all the time all you guys I mean if we have something going on you know we we don't have an entertainment Department that comes in and runs stuff you all run it and time after time I've seen this over the time I've served on this commission and you guys give you give tirelessly and selflessly all the time for things to happen in our city and I can't thank y'all enough so and our and our police and fire and and and and and our dispatchers thank you all that's my report commissioner we don't leave me anything else more to talk about that not a not a nibble um I I don't have a whole lot um unfortunately I wasn't able to make the Martin Luther King event um as probably most of you already know I've been having uh some medical stuff going on but um everything's going well um I wasn't able to do the uh my time with a commissioner this month but um I plan on doing it next month so I hope some of you come out to that that um besides that I've been uh keeping track of some of the bills that been going through the state um one of the big ones that I know that affects us as the short-term rentals um with this bill allow us to have a require them to register with the city um me personally I don't think it does enough um I think they need to give more authority to us to be able to uh control some of those things in case we do have a short-term rental that becomes a problem um and uh was the other Bill oh there's another one that affects comprehensive plan which we know was coming up that we're reviewing that limits on what some of the things we can do as far as density of some of the um land use codes and things like that and then one of the this one I don't know how many residents are aware of but uh there's a bill there that um talks about um places that you cannot bring a concealed uh firearm into and one of them is a religious worship uh place and I think probably most people around here would be against that so hopefully that doesn't go through hasn't um I haven't seen any votes on it yet or anything but just to let the make sure the residents are aware of other than that uh that's all I have thank you commissioner vag you know you forgot to wear the blue shirt today obviously I'm kind of yeah yes I know yeah we got to color coordinate that next time you know I'll work on that thank you um the other Commissioners have commented about the Martin Luther King day uh celebration um I took my three of my granddaughters um I didn't want I wanted to have a opportunity to discuss with them just why they were off school and uh like the other Commissioners said it was a a great day and it was a great day because I saw in the eyes of my grandchildren that they were enjoying playing and interacting with all Races and they even commented on that the 7-year-old said Martin Luther King had a dream that we could all play together and I know that's a simplistic uh way to express it but um again that's Through The Eyes of a seven-year-old and uh what we saw were uh white children black children Asian Hispanic and they were all having a good time and so I just want to thank I know that the city took on this responsibility but um I thank you for doing it I I think it's it's going to be very meaningful for the city of Lin Haven that's all city manager yes um warrantless please any questions storm water update before we go to the storm water update it might be good for I don't know if the have we introduced our new um Financial director for the public not to the public um police Daniel Pete is our new uh Finance director uh Daniel comes from Pensacola and has a lot of background in accounting um so he will be the person that you will see from now we've had pretty good transitions thus far and if you do have questions about the warrant list follow it with city manager and Mr Daniel thank you good evening there we go so we haven't had an update in a couple months but just want to bring everybody up to speed on the storm water projects and maintenance that's going on this fiscal year um the hmgp projects that we've talked about for quite a while now so all our plans are 100% complete except the Pine Forest project it's at 90% And we will have the 100% plans in the next probably two weeks on that and submit for the rest of our permits and then for our reimbursements to the state and our um construction document or construction dollars to get approved so we can move forward with the construction portion of these projects our legislative storm water project the phase one is complete they've got a few minor punch list items that that came from the storm the other day on a couple of the head walls had some erosion around them they're they're getting those addressed and they're working on phase two still of our permits it's in the Army Core so it could be um could be next week or it could be six months with the core you never know how those permits go um hopefully you see this new piece of equipment around town um it's called an innergreen and it has a 33t reach used for digging and mowing ponds and and ditches um the the head on it right there is called a flail head so it helps mow um like the Public's ditch um over there in belera States it has a reach that can go all the way across um the um the pond uh for example behind moat Highlands and 17th Street that that pond that we have that Long Reach now we can get in there and get that so it will help with our storm water maintenance and and like the the Rails to Trails uh ditch um we can actually go down there and actually move from side to side on that and keep that maintained and cut a little more efficient than a regular Bush a can concrete ditches slow and steady process um the picture on the left there is at 12 than Georgia Avenue the sidewalk had actually kind of started falling into the ditch there because the ditch would would erode the ground so when we had the concrete sidewalk P back we also concreted the ditch in so it's a nice firm surface now and we won't have to dig it anymore either um the the middle picture is was part of the H phase one legislative stormw project we concrete canvas the ditch there at 13th in Missouri and that's an outfall and then the the picture on the right is the railroad alley ditch it's almost complete still got a little more ways to go the guys are working on that as they get time from their other their other work orders that's part of the CRA uh canvas project that you all approved last year then this is just the placeholder that we like to bring you you all every year this is our fiscal year 24 ditch digging map um you'll probably start seeing some white lines on the asphalt where the contractor calling in the locates and they will get started any day um soon as the locates start clearing and they they will be working um starting in the 17th and Delaware area and kind of working um clockwise around the city back in in those zones and then just a reminder of our storm water assessment plans um to keep everybody refreshed November has come and gone a lot of people um had their storm water assessment in their escrow as part of their mortgage and then there's still some some folks paying their storm water assessment through their tax bill um in these months but just want to remind everyone of the the assessment and what we do with it um in all of the previous slides the maintenance that we mentioned such as the ditch digging the covert Replacements the concrete canvas Etc um it fund um the grant match portions when available pays for our staffing in the storm Water Division all the guys that that do those projects and do the maintenance pay for equipment along with our impact fees um and just a reminder a lot of our CIP projects are funded from outside sources because they're a large you know $ four and $5 million project that is not funded with the stormw assessment so just wanted to keep that on everybody's radar of what we do with those funds any questions questions one Qui question about the concrete ditches um where are we at and as far as getting them all done like many many many years away from being fully done with that but slowly you know taking a bite of the elephant you know slowly at the time concrete canvas when we have projects like that even if it's a small little portion going ahead and getting it done it will take many years to do every ditch of course but really focusing on the Main outfalls and the main arteries of the the ditch to keep those open and any ones you know that we've had like over there on 10th Street we did that one first because it was one that we had to dig all the time so anyone that's really a nuisance ditch we try to get and one more question about uh 12th Street in Virginia that low Ling area right there right is there any progress with the home owner the the concrete Flume has been poured and then um Tai has reached out to some of his tree folks and as soon as it had dried out enough that they could dig they would be planting trees in that area to help dry up the the lens and the RightWay there additional questions I just wanted to say thank you for putting this together I know I've asked for it a few times and this was excellent so thank you do have a question for uh I know previously we've talked about getting permits to clean out or do some work there in McCain Creek in the M Hollands area do we have any progress on that that is part of the uh dunde project um the first one that we submitted they did not like the you know running equipment all down in the ditch bottom and and widening that so they kind of narrowed the scope to right there at at dunde the Crossing there there's a home that's at the corner of um is that Dundee and Inverness right there um to kind of widen that you know it was it was built close to the creek and kind of stabilize that bank and and get the water flow you know widen there but as far as deepening and widening the creek that is not in in the worksh okay right any additional questions thank you thank you Chris just remind everyone that on February 5th at 6 PM we'll be doing the vulnerability Workshop it'll be very interactive and U we hope that everyone comes out and be a part of um we started this year with a new Pro volleyball we have 120 participants and it is going really really well one of the things that we promis residents is we just wouldn't do basketball and so we have expanded that scope to offer volleyball and basketball pickle ball inside out and uh we're looking at other activities for everyone so I commend uh Sports rex on their first year of doing that March 9th is opening day for at the sports complex last year we had roughly around 700 youth to participate uh before hurricane Michael I know that it was over a thousand youth that participate we expect that probably will be the case this year as our programs grow and again thank everyone for MLK day at out it was really great thank Mr Hines and his brother for helping us and helping us transition um with the city but uh they they worked just as hard as we did so we want to thank them very much so at Kane Griffin we still have um teams that play and practice there people that P practice there um and one of the things that we have had a problem with is that owners um walking their dogs and leaving um a surprise for for everyone there and so we have put out signs and we'll pull out signs that say no dogs allowed it's not that we don't like dogs we love dogs we have a wonderful dog part and I know so many people use it but um all of the the nice surprises that are inside of the fields and around it makes it very difficult for teams to get out there and practice and have a really good time and we are constantly having to clean that up as well as take care of um the grass within um those fields so we just ask that you would just please help us to manage that as much as possible and uh lastly near last the tree giveaway we're going to have um two tree giveaways one is February 3rd and one is um February 17th surely hope you come out and be a part of that I also attended a grand opening here in the city of ly Haven it's called Prime Aesthetics and wellness and we hope that their business does really well here in the city of Haven that's my report you um and I guess in regards to Kane Griffin I'm glad I didn't step in that stuff that you you mentioned um but it is awesome to see that it's still being utilized even you know beyond the regular sports that happened there although we've opened our Sports Complex I still see families use the batting cages uh the other day when I went out I actually had to practice with my daughter on the t-ball field because all the other fields were taken up with people out practicing which is great you know so it was great to see I think it was man I don't know 40° outside Sunday but people were still playing tennis still playing basketball still practicing softball baseball so still great I know there was a question about what's going to happen in C Griffin whenever we open a sports complex and so it's still a great asset to our city um into to our community as well so I'm glad we're still um utilizing that and I do like the lights that are I know they've been in there for a while now but the bat and cage lights at night I like those those are really really cool so I can sneak got there late at night after everybody leaves and still do some batting practice so I think that was a really good idea um to to put those out there again I know they're you know something we've installed previously but just wanted to mention I think those are good um as well City attorney sure and I know uh the mayor asked me to kind of touch back on the the short-term rentals and look at that legislation um as commissioner work mentioned there are two bills out there you know Senate bill um 280 and then there's a companion House Bill 15 87 that was sponsored by representative Griffiths they're both very similar there's a couple small differences about you know what fee you know one says you can charge a reasonable fee for registration one says $150 one says you have to display it on your unit um but otherwise in large part um they're very simle and similar you know and the big thing is the registration program um now obviously I know the league of City still opposes these because one I'm sure they want it to do more and two it still maintains all those same preemptions as far as you can't you know specifically Zone short-term rental properties you can't regulate the duration all that sort of stuff but I think it's a step in the right direction you know if we can have a registration program um you know make sure that that's you know that's displayed you'll have a point of contact you know 24 hours a day um all that I think is is a step in the right direction and you know and it also if these bills pass it'll be one or the other um you know ultimate enforcement is really still with dvpr but if somebody doesn't register we can turn them in for that if and this this one gives the cities the authority to actually revoke that registration you know for certain violations and you can again turn that into dbpr and they can actually suspend their state license because you know for the period of time where your city registration is revoked so I mean I think it's moving in the right direction it's a lot more robust than the one you know last year that that failed which was a pretty basic registration program um and this also which doesn't really affect it's not going to probably affect LH Haven that much but it actually tells the um what do they call them the advertising platform so the actual websites themselves that people use that they make those platforms be responsible for the payment of of the taxes and fees so like if you're in an area with a TDC bed tax or certain sales taxes they will actually have to remit that you know on behalf of the owner to the different taxing authorities which I think you know could be good um and then they also have are asking the division you know dvpr to set up a database a website where you can go on a look and say okay do they have their license do they have their local registration all that sort of stuff which you know City's can look at it you know renters all that so you know again I know the league is opposing it probably because it's still it's still preemption um but it is a step in the right direction both of those are moving through committee so we'll continue to to monitor that over the next several weeks thank you for uh taking a look at those and and doing that comparative analysis because I started looking at the Senate one read through that one and then uh did see representative Griffiths and start comparing the two and then after about another 30 pages or so decided that uh I did see they were very similar but you did answer the question they're probably about 90% the same yeah um but you did answer the question that I I couldn't easily determine and that was if were any repercussions for not registering with uh with the city right you and I did see there was um suspension and revoke it you know revoking of license and so as you're saying that that would also go to dbpr and that they could revoke their license right yeah two things one is you know we would if these passed the city would come back and do an ordinance and actually put that registration process in place and then if if they violate you know and again that ordinance has to comply with the statute but if if they violate that and and it does give the city's authority to revoke their registration that doesn't take away their their state license but it does say you can turn them in for that that's one of the things that dvpr will say well hey you don't have your local registration per this ordinance and then they can suspend it got it um I do plan on going to the uh legal City action days Monday Tuesday Wednesday and we're setting up meetings with uh commission uh representative Griffiths and Senator Trumble and so since representative Griffith is sponsoring this bill that's one reason I specifically wanted us to discuss it because we will have some one-on-one time with him to give some recommendations on some things that we would like to see changed in that from a a local perspective um I do like the fact that they you know Define the limits in regards to you know the monetary fees and such so that is already outlined for us so it's really sort of a a turnkey registration process in the sense of what they've already defined we can just almost copy and paste what you can ask for or you know CU it'll it'll you can say you know how many you know how many beds or how many rooms I mean you can ask for certain information have that on your R SE you'll know you know if there's a a fire inspection or a building inspection and say well on you're only supposed to have you know six rooms and now they've got 12 you know yeah make them amend it and you can only do it once a year and all that stuff but um yeah I mean I think it's be a good step in the right direction for sure any other comments or questions for City attorney regarding that um that proposed Bill all right any other questions for him in general while we have him here with us yeah and I do have more comments on public commentary but I know we've got it on the agenda on item 15 so I figured we wait and hash it all out then sounds good right any other questions for him okay thank you uh at this time moving on to our consent agenda approval of minutes for 1 1924 regular media minutes approval to appoint Miss Pamela fuler to the beautification board and approval to declare asset th pump 34112 as Surplus and auction off is there a motion for this motion to approve second motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner vff city manager Rec call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner Vandergriff yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner War yes Nelson yes motion passed new business first reading of ordinance 1165 repealing ordinance number 1080 granted to acmt South LLC for certain ATM tax exemptions for failure to meet the criteria for Su exemptions we did have some discussion on this on Friday are there any additional comments or questions for the City attorney or Mr jenq being that there are none is there a motion for this oh my bad you want to read it yeah I think we have to read it go ahead an ordinance of the city Haven Florida repealing ordinances number ordinance number 1080 granting to acmt South LLC for certain avalor tax exemptions for failure to meet the criteria for such such exemptions and providing an effective date you know just a reminder this under our old ordinance there's actually a 14-day certified mail or Ser as a process notice to that owner so um I doubt it'll be back for the next meeting and how quickly I can get their get that notice out and then we'll still do our normal 10-day public advertising of like we do every other ordinance but just for you know CJ just remember just hold off on on that until we get the green card back that the other notice has been served now that we've done first reading we'll send that out you know this week I'll get with Ben okay 12 discussion andoss approval to accept the cash donation of $1 16,34 7 for bicycle safety improvements project on sidewalk construction at East 26 Street uh Mr Jane um spoke to us about this on Friday um that there was a local citizen group or local citizen that wanted to ensure bicycle safety in the local area and that our rails or Trails provided that opportunity for them to dispose of those funds so they could close out those accounts and just needed our um approval so that we could uh accept this donation and um and move forward with that so are there any additional questions for Mr Jane no questions I just want to thank whoever it is I wish I could thank them in person but thank you very much for their generosity yes thank you for your um desire to continue to improve uh bicycle safety in in Lin Haven in Bay County um we do know that cyclists are you know in danger uh on on a regular basis so I am very excited about the rails and trails because of that it gives the cyclist a safe route so we're glad about that as well Jane and mayor maybe just for the record um I reached out to the individual and the individual prefers to be remain anonymous so um I made the offer to um you know publicly recognize the individual but um individual prefer to got it so when we write a thank you note we just write it to blank yeah I can write I can send this thank you note okay if you'll do that for us yeah I want to sign it before you send it though send a receipt for the money seriously send we need to send a receipt for for the money got it okay all right uh any other questions if not is there a motion for this motion to approve second motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner Ward any comments from the public all right see the man if you call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner War yes commissioner Vander yes commissioner pebles yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed agenda item number 13 discussion of possible approval to award an annual landscape maintenance contract for the linh Haven ra to Trail Diamond Landscape Management LLC in the amount of $2,601 year with a one-year renewal option that may be exercised by the city we discussed this on Friday um are there any additional questions for Mr Tai if not is there a motion for this motion to approve second motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner VRI any comments from the public yes ma'am at walk 1106 Michigan Avenue Haven Florida 32 triple4 can you tell me where the 12,000 6 is coming from is it general fund or is there as set something set aside just for rails to Trails it's coming in of general fund FD general fund under Community Services yes it does it have the name Rails to Trails on or is just coming out of the it's it's coming out of that department for Community Services yes budget yeah thank you and one of the reasons we're uh Contracting this out as I understand Mr far is saying is that our staff is already overextended with um our city um maintenance and so want to make sure that we didn't Overlook the rails of trails and so we're hiring this out Contracting this out to to make sure that we can upkeep the rails of trails and um and also uh not continue to overextend um our uh our staff that's already keeping our maintenance up or our lawn maintenance up on a daily basis and so they do a great job of that so thank you all um for keeping our city pristine we certainly appreciate it is uh all right any other public commentary right so those vote uh motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner vff say if you call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner vff yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner Ward yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed discussion and possible approval of resolution 20241 1426 to amend the adopted general fund CRA and Enterprise fund budgets are there any additional questions for um their Finance you'll come up please yeah you could just briefly tell us what um the amendments are that we're uh making to the general fund SI and Enterprise fund just for public information please sure each year um the city must amend fiscal budget to include the open purchase order balances from the previous fiscal year um that we didn't use by September 30th our year end so all of these have been previously approved by the commission submitted a list to you all last year it was roughly 9% of our budget year it's 7% um primarily it's it's infrastructure contracts that are still right are there any additional questions I just want to say make sure everyone understands we're not spending any more money this was stuff that was last fiscal year that just never got spent and it's getting spent this fiscal year correct yes sir essentially just a roll over right yes sir all right additional questions is there a motion for this motion to motion to approve second right public commentary motion by uh commissioner perno second by commissioner W and City manage if you read the resolution please okay res resolution 20241 426 a resolution of the city of linh Haven Florida amending the final budget for fiscal year 2023 2024 and providing an effective date right again motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner War City manager if you call the vote commission commissioner perno yes commissioner War yes commissioner vandagriff yes commissioner Peebles yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed uh agenda item number 15 discussion only of chapter 2 article 7 public meetings uh first uh let me open by saying um we are not uh bringing up this discussion to specifically Target uh public meetings and public commentary uh for those that have been listening for the the several past months we have been organizing myself with the guidance of city manager and City attorney um actually going through all of our ordinances so we're going through chapter by chapter so you're going to find a lot of things coming up in our meetings just so happens this is in chapter two and this is one of the few things that we can discuss in Chapter 2 um that doesn't already have some updates or changes that have been made to it um for example uh public records is in Chapter 2 however public records just says we're just doing what the state says so I mean there's no discussion there it's just what the state says so um do want to just say that this is not just myself or us targeting um a particular group or whatever in regards to public commentary we're going to be going through the majority of our ordinances chapter by chapter and so I would encourage you to stay tuned and continue to stay informed and continue to U we're going to have those ordinances in our packet so that you can see what those are as we discuss those things um and it's going to be a process so it's not going to just happen within the next 3 to six months it's going to be you know um hopefully commissioner perno is still on the commission by the time we finish this project um but if not it'll be on the the the second uh hopefully that the next commission will continue that project but there are a lot of ordinances that you brought to our attention that you say hey these are outdated um I think Mr Cory has brought some to our ATT hey these are outdated so we're going through chapter by chapter to try to review those that we think are relevant um to The cityin Haven and try to contemporize those as much as possible so just want to say this is why this particular part was picked up because when you look at chapter 2 um there's really nothing else there for us to discuss um for change other than uh this one um some asked earlier you know why was some of the discussion uh made the way that it was um I do know that there have been um over the past couple of years there have been citizens from the city of ly Haven that have requested that we do make changes um I don't know if they've reached out to all the Commissioners but there have been citizens that have requested that we do make changes um to how we handle our um public meeting commentary and so that's one of the reasons uh this discussion comes up but right now it's only discussion so we're not voting on anything today um the the plan is that uh we've heard comments on Friday we're hear comments today um Miss uh Cecilia is providing me with the notes from those and so I'll pull some of those together meet with City attorney and um update um this particular um article 7 and then bring something back to the commission for us to discuss further based on sort of a consensus or the comments um that we have here so we can actually have something to look at in regards to you know what we want to readed line or what we want to um to emphasize so uh we hope to have that done by the next meeting um to bring something back to you but if not then it'll be that second meeting in February that we'll try to bring something back um and sort of going to be the plan as him and I have talked is that we'll discuss something um and so it may take two or three meetings of us discussing it putting it together and then coming back making those changes but we would do the changes chapter by chapter so for example when we get to chapter six we're not going to just do you know individual parts of it we're going to make all the changes in that one ordinance um or that within that one chapter to update it all at one time uh for for manusa code so that's how we how we'll handle that um moving moving forward so this time uh floor is open for discussion or D is open for discussion in regards to uh chapter 2 public meetings yeah maybe before you get started I kind of yes I mean yeah I agree I mean obviously it's a discussion item only it's kind of the only thing in chapter two we're looking at you when you look at this article you can tell it was a 1996 ordinance and even that's outdated because in 2013 the legislature came out with uh 286 114 which really clarified the history of of the law you know through case law and all that sort of stuff and so you know we we hear comments like oh well that's you know you're violating the law you know that's illegal you're violating our first amendment just said it before you I'll say it again you know you you only have a right at a city commission meeting or any sort of board meeting to talk about a the legislature calls it a proposition but really it's a a voting item on the agenda so you know absolutely unequivocally you everybody in the public I don't care where you live has a right to come to the meeting and discuss you know voting item or a proposition it excludes you know minerial items proclamations meeting minutes stuff like that so if we wanted to you can say look you can't talk about that you just have to stick to the agenda items what ly Haven in most every city I've been around does above and beyond that is have a an open public commentary whether it's at the beginning of the meeting or at the end of the of the meeting we do not have to no city or county has to do that we do it just because you it feels like it's the right right thing to do but I mean you're you're certainly not violating any law to say look there's going to be no public commentary for the good of the order um or if you're going to limit that sort of stuff that's not illegal it's it's totally permitted um Panama City Beach went through that um in a previous administration they stopped doing it when the current mayor is there they haven't they they kind of reverted back to what we're doing now um about three or four years ago and has worked much better I me I I'll say their their the Beach's commentary was when when they had those rules in place where they were trying to say okay some sign up you have to be a you know a city resident or a taxpayer or um utility customer it was still on an honor like on an honor System people would try to get around it and they had more comment from even citizens you know the comments were always about about public comment kind of like we heard today and so what I'm what I'm saying that's sort of a you know a warning what happened at the beach that um it hasn't you know if it's not broken you know don't need to fix what's not broken obviously but um yes you certainly can eliminate that segment of the agenda you can you can limit what you want there but it it it does cause more um backlash and and criticism that's that's probably you honestly not needed because remember you you always are going to limit to 3 minutes you're going to keep you know keep decorum um that sort of stuff so obviously you know the chairman can can handle that but you know going back to article 7 itself I mean it is a little Antiquated talks about the signin sheets and that sort of stuff you know certainly you guys can can Institute that if you want to I think it sort of depends on who the who the mayor or who the chairman of that that board is I remember I think years ago you know Walt Kelly was up here and he'd have his little slips of paper and would go through all the people that signed up you know because I'm sure that helped him keep that organized you you can look around the room and recognize people um but it is it is outdated in that sense so I mean I think this probably will will be something that comes back and we we'd make a an ordinance change and if this is the only thing in chapter two then that'll just be all the ordinance is and we'll wait to do another one when we get to chapter 3 um but yeah I did want to just touch on you know the there is a statute out there that governs all this and then also the experience that that penal City Beach had where you know it was I think they haven't had a lawsuit about it and that the the city won you know because you they they were able to limit it how they wanted to um but this new new Administration said that's that just wasn't worth the complaints and the backlash and let's go back to to what kind of what we're doing now you can come up at the beginning if you want to talk about non-agenda items or ministerial things like the minutes or the warrant list for example I mean you talk about that during your your first three minutes you know you can talk about 30 whatever you can get in three minutes talk about it and then if it's an agenda item wait like we do now to that particular item and you ask them talk about that everybody has the right in well yeah well in right now we're not we're not limiting the public commentary either um I would suggest that we that we probably don't but it's up to you any uh response to City attorney or questions for what he mentioned to us thank you for that um any followup for him not for the attorney I don't but I have some things to say if nobody else has uh again thank you for that uh that followup and that Clarity um on you know what state statute says and then sort of what has been the standard procedure um among some of our other municipalities in the Bay County area as well we appreciate it commissioner Ward yeah so um I thought we had a real good discussion about this we you know we talked about the pros and cons of some things and you know um I brought up the question this was me of where do you draw the line when it comes to public commentary and the reason I bring that up is and I don't want to say his name because I don't want to give him any credit but um I watch a lot of other cities um and even County uh meetings not even here locally but across the country and you you see a lot of these what we'll I'll call YouTubers that go out and they just create disruption they create problems and we had that happen here uh someone came in and and created some problems and um that's why I asked a question where do you draw the line do you someone wants to come from out of state just to come in and and cause a a Ruckus do you allow them to speak and that's why I brought the question up um we have obviously we haven't made a decision on any of that but um I thought we had a lot of good discussion on it yeah and always keep in mind I mean it's limited to three minutes and it's not a question and answer it's not an interrogation so more times than not you'll see those boards you know check their watch watch the clock 3 minutes is up thank you move on to the next one so it it doesn't have to create a lot of disruption yeah any other discussion peop well first I want to say thanks for everyone that came out today and gave their opinions on it um that back and forth is awesome I love it um also I wanted to kind of use this as an example of why I'm a fan of the the pre-commission meetings is because when we have these discussions at the preis pre meeting uh workshops it gave me you know like 3 Days To really reflect on what we talked about do some more research based on what other the other people of the board and the you know the attorney had said and kind of getting that like really gather my thoughts so specifically for ordinances and things like that it's really really helpful for me um as far as my thoughts on this I think uh like like commissioner work was saying that is my concern too I never want to limit anyone from Bay County any surrounding areas that I want nothing to do with that um I think the idea is that uh right we don't want people coming in disrupting our meetings just purely for financial gain from you know like Delaware or something um and there is a increase in that happening in fact the um the deputy General Council of the Florida League of City sent out a memorandum about this happening seeing an uptick in it happening and in my opinion is the best way to go about this is not necessarily focus on who can and can't speak but more so be very specific in the ordinance on what um our the Quorum is uh what what disruptive behavior is and how specifically what disruptive behavior is and what you're not allowed to do because if we have that written out in writing specifically what you can and cannot do have it back on the back of the agenda it'll be very easy just look at that agenda and be like it was right here you can't do that sorry um of course we do need to discuss exactly what that means but the league of cities um gave very specific examples in this memorandum uh gave Court Supreme Court cases of instances of this happening uh so um I think uh Kevin Obo's our attorney said that this is a limited um form so it talks specifically about what that is and so um I my opinion is that rather than focusing on who can and can't speak just have very specific rules because if everyone's playing by the same rules um there shouldn't be as many qums you know if someone from California comes over here with their YouTube camera or whatever and they start saying something crazy we can say hey sorry we have rules in place and we can you know and they won't be like what what are those rules you going say did you read the back of the agenda you know and then it would be pretty easy to just be like sorry and that's that's just my opinion did you have something C the attorney no I me I think you can certainly do that I mean along the lines of the the decorum and you know the disruptive behavior I think you can expand on that and I think what you're talking about is like you know commercial activities you have somebody come in here to take their 3 minutes and you know try to advertise you know get free adver M for themselves for whatever whatever it is I me I think you can certainly and that's probably what the league is talking about they've probably seen a lot of that and you know you don't want somebody to come up here and try to sell you know solar panels for three minutes every single meeting you know got it that's for the door to door stay out of here yeah um one question I do have as I was uh looking at how other cities have um I guess proceeded with their public meetings I've seen some where they've actually included their procedures for like the quas judicial hearings um I know usually when we have one you and I confer about you know how do we want to go through this procedure um or how do we want to you know what's the process for that I have seen some uh that have included that in their sort of procedures just you know just as a record as to you know how they do that is that something we need to consider including in this it's already in our it's it's elsewhere it may not be in the it may be in the ldr yeah I think it is in the it it is I do remember see pretty good detail um you know and again under under the statute that's a quasit Judicial hearing is one of those that's that is ex can be Exempted from just general public comment obviously the the applicant and any affected parties so people there's no fine definition of that but I mean we dealt with it you know a month or two ago and you know I live behind it well you're an affected party you know yeah um but that's another thing to look at that that does are procedures that are already in place I think it's in the ulc if I'm not mistaken I don't think it's in just the regular code of ordinances but it it does allow just public comment as well just like you do on any other agenda item so that could be something you know that you could limit to only affected parties and that's allowed by Statute too and I think in looking at some other cities with their quasy judicial they did give a definition of you know your testimony can be you know this long versus you know it can be 10 minutes 20 minutes 30 you know they gave a maximum to the amount of testimony for those who sworn in versus just an open Period um yeah I mean you got to be like I said it's a it's it's not Court obviously but you got to be careful a little bit I think you can limit like the affected parties but not necessarily like the city or the applicant because they have a right to like cross-examine each other and cross-examine Witnesses and stuff like that but as far as okay now you you've got the applicant and you've got the city then you've come into the affected parties which are the you know the others and you can probably limit um you know the time on those if you wanted to but we would need to be specific on that and then a step further is just the non-affected parties who are just public commentary public commentary whether you want to allow that at all and the reason you you try to it's probably good why it's Exempted from the statute and probably why it's a good idea is because that all gets jumbled in to your decision and so if you're basing your remember we always talk about you you need to base your decision in quasa judicial on the testimony that you heard and it's normally sworn testimony well the general public comment is not sworn testimony so you could kind of slip up and say well somebody said that and it kind of stuck with me that's why I voted that way maybe that wasn't an affected party that's that's probably a good reason to kind of you know keep it out just like again you go to court you're not going to the Public's allowed to sit there and watch but they say something I mean that shouldn't affect what the judge thinks about it yeah and I what our most recent quasi judicial hearing I think what you're saying probably we had a lot of public commentary with that we had a lot of affected parties I think too I mean most the people came and identified themselves or and they were willing to be sworn in because they say hey I live you know behind it or down the street or whatever and like I said there's no magic I mean is a one mile radius two mile radius you know yeah you got to kind be liberal on that stuff um but it's probably a good idea to to to look at that ulc maybe while we're looking at at this okay see if we want to um tighten that up as well and also I know we've discussed like U if there is a big turnout for a particular topic or issue um that we could say okay hey we just need you know a spokesperson for you know this particular topic or we're going to hear so many on this topic not that we're trying to limit people's uh commentary or their freedom of speech but is that although we've talked about that and I have seen some other cities again just put it down as a procedure not that they have to enact it but is that something that we need to include in this in case we decide to exercise that at some point yeah if if you want that that that again that's actually specifically mentioned in the statute so I mean to kind of comply with that statute we need to to have our you know rules and procedures so I mean think it would be um well let me take a step back right now this is by ordinance it may be a good idea to have the ordinance say hey we'll comply with kind of like public records we'll comply with the statute and then the actual rules and procedures will be set by resolution from time to time that way you guys you know if there's a a different chairman or a different mayor it's a lot easier to change the procedures and all that sort of stuff so that may be one thing to consider is is you know in this ordinance have future changes of the rules and procedures done by resolution so it's just you know one reading and you're and you're in a vote and you're done um but yeah the statute does allow one of the rules and procedures to say look if we've got 35 people coming to talk about the same you know I'm opposed to this stop sign I'm opposed to this stop sign you can say look if you're off from the same street and neighborhood if you want to and I think it kind of has to be you know voluntary because you don't want to get you know I've heard the same guy you same thing 10 different times I'm not going to hear anymore well what if the ne the 11th person had something different to say um but you can certainly have that in procedure in the procedures to say look I if if if you're just here to say what's been said 15 times before you you know sit down and if you have something else to say come up here and say it but that that is permitted just just a point um what about yielding time CU we had in the planning board meeting on that that be in the procedures as well it can be I that's up to the chairman but we we've traditionally you know not done that you're not following you know you're talking about transferring your time to somebody else like when you get into that you know that that part of everybody saying the same thing you got remember that you that comes from Robert's Rules of Order but you know when you look at Robert's Rules it's talking about the let the legislative body right so you've got Cong congressmen are going to yield time it's not just the public um so I mean that's really up to the chair but yeah certainly I think you could put a line in there that know if if the time the time limit is three minutes it's three minutes and there'd be no yielding of time to others but it's at the chair's discretion additional comments um the other thing I we discussed I think um seems like we're kind of in agreement on this is is the signing in part um I think it would help with our meetings especially when um for public commentary because sometimes people want to talk about something that's on the agenda and they come up public commentary to discuss it and I think by having those sign-ins we can look at that and explain hey this is going to be in the agenda you'll have time to to speak on that so I I think it'd be beneficial for that and also what commissioner Peebles talked about if we wanted to follow up with somebody for something that they uh they said or get feedback from them or whatever I mean I've seen that before where it's just you write down your name and agenda item 11 or 13 and you little pack of papers and go through that way just to add with what commissioner work said the reason I think that it's a good idea to do it as well with following up is whenever anyone comes up here I'm writing your name down and your address and all that that's like 10 15 seconds that I can't I'm not putting my full focus on you and so if I cannot have to worry about that and just know that I can go to someone grab um your address and your information and put my full focus on what people are saying I think that that would just be helpful for everyone involved additional discussion on uh public meetings anything Miss V gri well since you've asked uh I think that we want to encourage our citizens to come to meetings and feel free to to discuss whatever topic they want to discuss personally I would I'm in opposition to um requiring only citizens or business owners in Len Haven speak I'm on uh Mr perno's side on this discussion um we have to just trust people that they'll conduct themselves appropriately Robert's Rules of orders do Robert's Rule of Order does give you some the chairman some Authority um but we want this room filled but if the citizens feel that we are trying to stifle stifle their input or their involvement in the decisions that are made they won't come and you know we've had criticism about attendance you know whether we need to change the times to bring forth more people but we don't want to do anything to give the impression that we don't want to hear their opinion I understand what uh the issues that have been brought up and they've been on the commission longer than I have so maybe they've seen more than I've seen um but I want to hear from people even if I don't like it I want to hear from them we did have a good discussion on Friday we have differing opinions but that's good we give and we take and strong points or the weaknesses of the decisions we make are possibly can make we have an opportunity to discuss that it's like what Mr people said it the the pre-commission meetings are very informative and uh beneficial to us when we're preparing to make decisions for the city so um guess that's all I have to say about that commissioner perno just um um Echo commissioner vagar sentiments as well just feel like we've been doing it one way for a long time uh people are entitled to come up and talk at public commentary and let us know how you feel and sometimes it's somebody from out of town and we just we just roll with the punches we always kind of have and you know I I serve on the TP board and and mayor Henderson is is uh she she and um City attorney will tell you gives everybody all the time they need it runs a long meeting sometimes but you know anybody who has a has an opinion has a right to talk on it so I just I just feel like and you guys served in the military you know you know some you're you're fighting for everybody's rights to have that that that freedom of speech whether it's against or what you believe in or not you know so I just I just think at this point in my service to the city of Lin Haven I just don't want to see a change that would that would cause it might be better that we think it's it's a good thing but it anything that comes across perceived restrictive is not good as far as I'm concerned so let let's i' just like to leave it as it is but whatever whatever we can do to streamline if it if it means that we get someone's name on a piece of paper and we could get back with them I mean that makes sense but other other than that I'm just my my my feeling is let people come this is a town H this is a town meeting if anybody cares enough to get here and talk let them talk discussion meeting with j