##VIDEO ID:9DVicNVayYI## at 8:01 a.m. take a look at our agenda for Tuesday um the consent agenda anyone have any questions about the consent agenda um I guess just what's the what's the reasoning for the grant time the extending of the grant time on number 10 in Grant duration and updating the program description normally any of these are always on um the other side but B you can speak to it you'll see a lot of these with these grants um extensions they'll come through a lot so the they review the agreement and they asked to make uh two changes guest two changes to this agreement one to extend the time frame of agreement and number two to um change a little bit the the description of the grant of the the scope of work um we had some um when we submitted the application we included $200,000 as a budget item for uh sto gront improvements and whenever Florida commerce awarded this to the city they gave us the award without the storefront assistance so we asked for 45 million we got 4.3 and so they found some wording in their agreement that says that this could be still it's basically housekeeping item they found some woring about stor agreement and they asked to take this out if we make a change to the agreement like this that's the reason to okay perfect any other questions about the consent agenda um I had a question about the warrant list all right um inner green something 236,000 what is that that is the new uh Bush a that we purchased we purchased one last year and then we purchased a smaller one this year and it's the new Bush a that we use is that that thing that has an arm that and the mower and yes ma'am okay all right um jdf something something 4.3 million that's the payoff that you all approved okay the payoff to Mr fch got it okay yeah so when we approve the paying off the 17th Street ditch loan last time yeah that was for that okay I remember that I just didn't understand the abbreviations there okay how about CW Roberts is that this building 73 that's what legislative that's all reimbursable every bit of it okay okay have we seen a significant difference in our uh payments to Florida Power and Light just out of curiosity you know we pay a has it been pretty consistent it's been really consistent it may go down a little bit that's is it going up for you guys but for residential yeah thought the school board was in Jackson County yelling about it okay that's all the questions I had on the all right um one thing I would ask that we consider adding to the consent agenda I know uh last meeting there was some um discussion around um city manager contract regarding uh overtime pay we're going to bring that back probably in February to continue discussing that however um last year via email we did airm to pay her for the MLK Day in regards to overtime however we didn't do that I guess in a formal sense and so we just ask us to consider adding to the consent agenda just ratifying um that that decision that we made um although it's sort of uh retroactive that we sort of ratify that then that'll be on on public record that we've done that so just would like to add that to the consent agenda yeah I'm good with that I'd rather have it on the regular agenda that's me so I understand but we've already done that so she's already been paid we've already made the decision to do it I got it you still pull it out and discuss it so help me understand the reasoning for adding it to the regular agenda I think there's some discussion that needs to go on about that go ahead and discuss well I mean when you read her contract it goes against what her contract says um I think the whole thing well I disagree on that but that's part of the problem we're trying to address I'm talking her current contract her current contract does not entitle her to work on it does not have any expectation that she work on holidays so if she does work on holidays there is an opportunity for her to be paid working on holl she there is no expectation so I think that was addressed to me that is a clear opportunity for her to obtain extra compensation under her contract if approved by the commission it was approved by the commission although not in a formal meeting so ratifying that prior decision corrects um what was already done you still have a conversation that you need to have about how you want her contract to read going forward will holiday work be included in her expectation work were excluded so I think uh it really put us it really put the Commission in an awkward position the way it was handled um I would like to have a formal vote on I guess is what I'm getting so a formal vote on us to approve what we've already done wow I'm just I'm just asking correctly but yes so okay all right if y'all add that to the agenda doesn't make sense to me but okay well I mean okay so let's say you put it on the consent agenda and I disagree with it do I just say no on the Cass agenda you know good we're in the meeting you can ask to pull that separate for discussion I could isn't that correct yeah we can just put on the agenda I guess it's 8:09 and I guess my mind isn't just clicking right now that we're voting to discuss we're discussing something that we've already approved I didn't approve it but you're one out of the majority and what happens is because you don't approve something and the majority does you feel as if we should follow your lead when the majority has already think it deserves a vote that's all I said it gets a vote on if it's on the cons agenda that's a vote okay put on agenda okay well is this going to be an issue soon I mean Martin Luther King is just a couple of weeks away we're not voting on this is not for I know but this is for something this is for last year's Mar Luther cany yeah I I understand that I'm just saying that in two weeks it's going to be an issue again so your options are going are you have two options you can bring it back to the commission for vote every year um with regard to what she what compensation she should be entitled to or not on any holiday she works so that can come back every time or you can revise her contract to expressly say that she is entitled to uh extra compensation for hours worked on holidays there are two ways to address it mayor can I just say I don't want any more I don't want any holidays okay I I don't and that's off that entire thing I'll just work whenever I need to work I always do I've never missed an event I've never missed a holiday as you know I've never missed a commission meeting so that put an end to well may I say something you know at she's asking people to work on a holiday she's asking other people to work on the holiday so she feels and I might be speaking out of turn for you that as the leader of the group she needs to also work on that holiday to show the people the citizens or the the employees that you know she's not asking them to do something that she's not willing to do right and yes she's on a salary but I mean what's wrong with saying at a girl you know you didn't have to do this and because you've done it you know we want to do this for you um being in a leadership role I didn't want to ask any of my employees to do something I wasn't willing to do myself yeah that's all I have to say about that thank you number 11 discussion of possible approval of resolution 20251 448 for the fdot transport Transportation alternative vent application there any questions about that for Mr Jen uh about how long we're just we're just putting in a grant for it and then a grant requ and then it'll be if it's granted then we can start with the project pretty much pretty yes if the application approved obviously it's a competitive process right um the Grant application deadline is January the 17th um part of the application requires a signed resolution by the city commission that supports the um the Strand application including uh some support letters from the community which I have attached to to the agenda packet uh um so we'll see what happens um all right cool thank you I will say this uh I live in that area and I've canvased a lot of people there and I've lived around that area for over 30 years and I've never seen traffic around school time like it is now it is so like um I don't know if it's the change in the school bus system or just the shift in our uh Shi in how we do things as a civilization I don't know but when I was a kid there was no vehicles there so there really wasn't a need for sidewalks but now around when when Vehicles pick up their kids just lined up for a blocks and I've seen multiple times where kids have almost been hit by cars because they're just coming in and out of the cars and you know and then on top of that you've got wear and tear the that area like the street um like the streets Carolina Avenue has been repaved and already has damage to it because of all the cars parking and stuff so I think if we can get this grant it's not only going to be at obviously will be help with safety but it also will help with our streets not being torn up and you will see more of these grants and opportunities to put in sidewalks to encourage kids to walk on the sidewalks and um I I will tell you I um our uh folks that crossing guards do a very good job of ushering them to the sidewalks that we have right now part of the problem too what we're seeing is I think it was a two years ago the uh School Board decided it would they would um expand um the area in which um the bus would uh or decrease the area in which the bus would pick up so now I think used to be a mile now it's 2 m so some of those kids have to either walk or parents drop them off so that's where you're seeing the increase is that correct any other questions on that moving on to uh 12 which will be the first reading of ordinance 1173 and this is in regards to the firefighters retirement system uh City attorney so this is a recommendation that comes from your fire fighter and police pension these two items 11 and 12 uh do the same thing uh just they're they are separated because they one addresses fire one addresses police um but the change is to clarify um that if you were not 100% vested um at the time of Separation you will forfeit um uh forfeit your recw benefits in the share plan um and then stating it in the alternative as well if at the time of CH separation you are 100% invested you were entitled to all of those funds all right any further questions on that so for for employees that are not fire department or police department they only need five years to be vested five years at 50% 6 years at 60% right it goes per rates is that the same for this then at 5 years is this a different part of it's called a shared plan so it cost the city nothing okay okay um our five 67 that is what the city does but this is separate from what the city does this right here will cost us nothing okay so so firefighter and police still got the fiveyear vested at 50% okay okay um number 13 we we're seeing the same there um any difference there yeah what prompted this again did the pinion committee recommend it is there a they did I would refer to Jennifer on the why that yes it was recommended considered and recommended by the P these two pension committees back in March yeah and and the belief is uh both firefighter and police pensions have an additional Plan called the shared plan that's Prov provided by the state based on insurance rates for the city that doesn't impact the general when the three pensions and when the city wanted the pensions to look at a graduated vesting these two pensions just wanted to clarify the shared plan which is separate didn't fall under that graduated um approach that they would be vested at 50% that the shared plan because it's actually controlled and dictated from the state is a different plan altogether so if you had nine years and you leave you get nothing with f fire and police you still get 90% of the the the first pension the pension that the city contributes to okay but you would lose your shared plan payout got it okay you covers the share plan okay number 14 this will be the first reading of orance 1175 for small scale future land use map Amendment from changing traditional neighborhood development to commercial are there any questions for that for uh Amanda yeah are there any houses around I looked at that map are there any houses close by that area there's some um when you look at the when you're looking at the map there are some that are kind of to the left on the water that are in the county there's a few Lots there um I think there might be a few down that road that's on the the right on larger Lots but not immediately surrounding it so that won't effect cuz I know the one concern with mil Bou is um only having so many um and egress oh egress this wouldn't affect that at all no they would come out directly on to 2321 um and one of the things that I want to stress also is that it is tnd right now traditional neighbor development so you're right and ordinarily when there's a land use map Amendment application we have to look at the land uses of adjacent areas which is why I always put it in the car for you um although the adjacent properties are I think it's agriculture agriculture Timberland in the county um and then you've got the road and you've got a residential land use in the county um under tnd the current land use they can have commercial um they have a mix of commercial low density high density in a traditional neighborhood development there is supposed to be some commercial in there and this is probably where they would put this is where makes sense to have some they would probably have some integral if it were a property andd like little village clusters you know but but it makes perfect sense to have commercial on that road now something to think about um remember with the grease Pro there was commercial on the road on Highway 390 which was widening and there was residential before in that situation I'm not sure what came first the chicken or the egg I think the residential was there before that was before that became commercial in this instance this would be you voting for commercial on that road prior to any residential being built there um and what would make sense would be really for all of the property along the road to be commercial and then to have like mixed juice behind it maybe apartments or town homes and then behind that you would have your single family this is 9 Acres almost 10 acres 9.9 okay yeah 9.99 99.99999 um first reading and transmit of approved the ordinance 1176 W scale comprehensive plan text Amendment evaluation a report yes thank you um so if you recall you all uh wanted to make some changes to the comp plan but I requested that you let us make the changes because we had to send to the state to uh notify them we have to do it every seven years this is something we have to do and so I requested that you allow us to make the statutory changes first and also clean up any like obvious things um and so this is this has been done um ordinarily when it's a first reading of an ordinance it's first reading by title only but in this instance because we have to send it to the state um it's a public hearing I'm asking for first reading by title only but then also a vote to transmit to the state when we send it to them then they have 30 days and the other reviewing all the other state agencies have 30 days to get comments to the state and then the state will notify us as to whether what we've done is sufficient if it isn't if there's something they want in there or or check change they will tell us what that is in what's called an orc report objections recommendations and comments and then we have 180 days to fix those things and send it back and adopt it thank you so if there were some grammar issues you could fix that later they don't normally worry about gram issues they don't care they don't they're looking at content substance policies what we're going to do I mean if there's any bad language in there as far as grammar that's not that's not something they look at but you could certainly clean that up when it comes to your bit when you're looking at the changes that you want to make okay yeah so really I mean I say that they may come back and say hey this sentence doesn't make sense I want you to change the grammar in it I don't know so I'm sorry go ahead it's was just a couple of places it was just one giant runon paragraph I mean it was one sentence uhhuh you know yeah I don't think that they'll I mean we'll see but they're not going to stop it because of that it's the content they just want to make sure the policies are correct okay and there are a few places I noticed that need commas MH so I won't in the in the title worry in the title or in the actual comp plan in the comp plan okay yeah I'm sure there's lots of things like that in there okay yeah then I I W worry about that rules of grammar have ch have changed now yeah so APA does this differently MLA does that so used to be commas isn't common anymore me if you see the way the key is right now it's just crazy yeah may I found that because I was wondering about the title when I did the title and I thought surely I need to make is this okay but I checked with the grammar thing and yeah it was fine so it's it's confusing now um so most of the changes or majority of the changes is changes to satisfy the state these are yeah these are things that you like you'll notice that Peril of Flood information um I've also cleaned some things up like I changed something that said I don't know handicap to special needs I mean we we've we've updated where some of the old ordinance references were in there we've tight we've cleaned it up with when it comes to that kind of thing and hopefully we've made sure that the statut Tre the things that they require of us to have in there are in there like I saw the section like about climate change and that yeah um the only other question I have is when this is done and it comes back are we going to review the comp plan as a commission okay yeah this is just the first you know we send it to them they get their objections to us I can either it's up to you I can either come back to you with the objections they'll probably send a letter to you mayor with them as well they usually send it to you and then and also to me I mean I don't know it's up to you how you want to handle it whether you want me to just go ahead and make the changes that they require or if if you want to make the commission aware of the Chang changes before I make them okay yeah but yeah we will discuss the again uh strategically and progressively discussing the comp plan then because what the staff had asked was that if we start discussing it now some of the things were going to change would probably been something that she needed to change so now that we see what we're working we need to make sure we're good with the state first before we press on yeah you'll need to adopt this first with their changes get that done and out of the way and then you know you've got another seven years um you can make whatever change you want within that time yeah so um simultaneously we want to discuss the comp plan as well as discuss some of our ulc you know going along with that I know zoning was one of the things we discussed prior to um prior to the new year but with us having like one month meetings in November December we want to wait until the new year before we really brought that back so we could have uh a few successive meetings to have some more discussion about that um as well because zoning or not zoning so of determines what the rest of the uoc you know looks like as well so um and then also um starting at next meeting we're going to bring back our big black book of uh of ordinances and start going back through that as well um so lots of work for us to do as we move into 2025 I just have one more question okay um I noticed that throughout there were a lot of little bitty changes but when you get to the water manage management section there was a whole bunch of changes um are you talking about the schedule of improvements or which section um that it was like Northwest Florida water yeah that's already done by that was um elev do you do you remember how we had a grant for a vulnerability assessment yes so as part of that vulnerability assessment they did the required statutory uh changes in language for Peril of flood that's something that we had to do those Consultants did that so all of that is from the Consultants yeah sorry thanks and now moving on to uh some further discussion and please know for 16 and 17 for right now this is just for discussion um with approval coming maybe next meeting but we want to discuss this with the intention of giving the staff Direction on what we would like for them to bring back to us um as it relates to like an ordinance so 16 and 17 um a be for discussion again so that we can say hey this is what we would like you know like for you all to work on or maybe do some more research on this so we get more clarification um on that do you have something commissioner V okay I just saw your finger son um discussion only pertaining to defining what constitutes an accessory structure per section 5.0 1.2 accessory structures in all land districts and this is something both of these are some things that uh city manager um emailed us about uh last year or the latter part of last year I can't remember the exact month but in those last few months she emailed about this um and thought it would be a good time for us to bring this back so that we could actually get on the agenda and discuss it um and see what our ideas are on it so see yeah so we when we go out and people call us about certain things um particularly asess for structures um we we have a problem sometimes identifying what we consider as an accessory structure um and whether or not we should take action or not so I think clarification needs to be done on that and then where that accessory structure is going to land on that person's property um though that those are probably if I would to say or two the major issues uh when it comes to access structures um because you know some people don't like accessory structur sitting right in uh Neighbors in the front of their house on the side or in on the driveway and so we just need some direction of uh so we can clarify this this is really uh some clarity to these confidence I know Amanda gets a lot of questions from this and so do the building department so you just need Clarity if I remember I think a lot of this stem from since the hurricane a lot of people getting those pods and stuff I don't know what you want to call those metal containers I think that's where we're going with this well well it that's the thing do you consider that an accessory structure or not um you know somebody goes and buys a shed that we we kind of know that's one but it they just need to be all of those things need to be identified do you have any I guess initial thoughts initial questions that we can ask um probably take us over the weekend and all over all of this um but any initial thoughts or questions that we can ask staff before we discuss it again on Tuesday I'm just 16 or both 16 and 17 uh just 16 right now okay yeah because they're yeah separate I would ask that Amanda you can come and give any um conversations you've had in terms of trying to interpret this or things and share with the commission if you will now yeah you can um so I think the main one um that's been an issue recently is the one that I uh told you all about a couple of months go which is where someone we've had more than one person want to put um containers storage containers that you are shipped in those huge things um in their backyard and call them uh storage uh an accessory structure um to store things in and I know in the county you know you see them and they're fine and I know construction companies use them now as well but do you really want them you know on Indiana Avenue in someone's backyard um so that that's one of the things and again um all these little pods um we we see people put things in the front yard we tell them accessory structures can only be in the backyard but I mean are there even an accessory structure um are they appropriate I mean I can see maybe writing some kind of language whereby um if someone's moving house or something and they need to have them um to fill up to move you can allow them to be there for you know a week or something but if we don't have anything that addresses I think it's techn it's like anything when technology changes and different forms of things like back in the day an accessory structure would have been a shed a gazebo a pool but now people have all these new ideas of things they want to do and so I think we just need more guidance as to what you all want to allow and what you don't and then how long if it is for a reason then give us some guidance on how how long you would say just would stay here if someone they're not supposed to be in the front yard at all accessory structures are supposed to be in the side in the rear but is a PO a structure not really does it address having it in the front temporarily no they're not supposed to have anything in the front period that's probably something we need to add as a timeline as far as how long you can have it in the front and for what you know I think the two things that come to mind for me are how are we going to track how long it's been there because if it's just on the honor System what's the point of having it anyways if you know usually the neighborh is going to complain about it well yeah so that's so would it be from the first complaint that we would track it I mean that seems like the easiest way yeah it's kind of like parking you know it's like there's only 2our parking here it's like how do you know how long so when the parking attendant comes they're like okay I'm going to n take this time going be two hours from here right so it's probably the same thing with this I would think yeah maybe it' just be as simple as a neighbor calls and then it would just be like a kind reminder hey just a reminder you got however many days and code enforc catch some of those as well we probably just get you know gather that information and then be able to keep that information as a l a log and um that timeline of when we need to go back to that person as you that right M and then for the permanent accessory structure one thing we could require is that they need to be anchored down because that's one of the issues with with accessory structures is one of the main things is really just that they can fly from one yard to the other and Destroy somebody else's stuff so being anchored down would be key if if it truly is permanent like you're saying it is then you're going to Anchor it down if not then it's not an accessory structure it's temporary and and what kind of things do you want to be permanent and what don't you want to be permanent right well to me I know that some things are ugly but I don't feel like I have the right to tell another neighbor what's ugly and what's not cuz it's their property so even if they wanted a storage container as long as it's not affecting somebody else then that's their own prerogative but when it gets to the point that it is affecting someone else negatively and then what's the to me the hard part is what's the gray line of like this is affecting someone's property value versus you know so it's a conversation have to do some research but uh really the main thing that sticks out to me is that they need to be anchored down if they're permanent all right any additional questions for am mandate at this moment I said we'll bring it back Tuesday and have some further discussion then all right moving on to number 17 discussion pertaining to specific parking requirements for recreational vehicles city manager same same goes here I I know all of you receive phone calls um about when we code enforcement goes out and ask someone to move their RV to the back can't be parked here they have to put it somewhere else um to enforcement did a great job through PD of going out and locating every uh recreational vehicle that's sitting in a driveway and it was about 300 I'm a correct Chief holy cow yeah and um so we again we need action on how you want us to address and handle this uh more than anything uh because of the fact that it it is becoming code enforcement spending a lot of your time Chief you can come up and and um tune in about the challenges code enforcement are having I mean this was a hot button item in panal city and it ours was or theirs was written almost identical to ours and I mean it's in their driveway I mean at the end of the day you know preh hurricane I don't think we had near as many post hurricane we have over 300 in violation right now it's very specific the language says it has to be behind the residents and I can assure you you know I think Panama City we need to really look at what they did because when they if I were to go out and sight the 300 right now this chamber couldn't hold the people that would show up um so we need to do the next right thing and let's look at maybe what Panama City did to satisfy and have a you know a a line where we can either say on the side or even in the driveway but I mean again it's in the key word is their driveway M and I mean are we going to infringe on their Liberty of what they can have in the driveway um and you know if HOA wants to address that in their own area then let the HOA but I just think right now if we were to enforce it the way it sits um again I don't think this chamber is big enough to hold the people that would come out I think one of the challenges also for people who do not have them they are in D ways is the very large ones that they cannot you know neighbor can't see over can't can't see around uh it impedes them um W with their level of uh being feel feeling safe and um you also got the email for the ones that are in driveways that yes have taged but maybe haven't moved in two years or a year so you got to address those as well well um and um because you know if they have a move but it is it's not bothering anyone we kind of hands are kind of yeah tired um tied at that sense so you see them yeah in all of those do you recall sorry didn't mean to cut you um do you recall off the top of your head what Panama City did to address it no but I'm sure Amy can get with her attorney cuz the city pen city did draft one that met in the Middle with the residents that they seem to be pleased with so I think you know why reinvent the wheel let's look at what they did mhm but but I do agree with the resident that you know ones that are D like been there while they have a tag but um you know flat tires those kinds of things we need to address that I mean it it had we we need some direction what do we do with those but now will that not be covered under like we have vehic we have a an ordinance that address the vehicles per the way you read the language on a recreation vehicle opposes to a vehicle the language needs to be specific to a recreational vehicle I mean do I say we mirror what we're doing with vehicles absolutely you know with the tag the valid tag and things of that nature and you know and the flat tires or something that would make it what we would refer to as a deric vehicle um but again I think we really need to pay close attention to the the what we're doing on their private property okay um Amy or CJ or someone could you all I guess before Tuesday try to send us over um the ordinance or the resolution that Panama City approved so we can read over that to see the language of that thanks oh I'm looking for it right now so I'll send it as soon as I find it okay that would help a lot all right thank you right um anything else for further discussion before we go oh yeah I got something so um I've been talking to some people over in Panama City and I thought this it just brought an idea that I thought was kind of neat is that um I hadn't considered this in the past you know we have an election coming up and we've had times in the past where we wanted to pull the citizens um but it cost money so during an election you can have a question on the ballot that's non-binding so you could you could pull the citizens and get you know it's a it's a free chance to do any type of poll you want to do so obviously you wouldn't want to be do something simple like hey would you want this because it could sound a lot better than it is so for an example if you were to say like hey do you want a library obviously there's going to be a lot of yeses but if you were to add hey do you want a library but you also would have to raise your property taxes to get it you you know the the answers might be different so we'd have to figure out exactly what it is but I guess my request is that maybe Among Us think about certain things that you'd like to see on the ballot because we can do this for free essentially because there's already going to be an election so it's a way that we can not only pull the citizens for free but also hopefully it'll encourage Civic engagement so now is it no it's not free is it free to put something on the ballot to actually okay that's a good question I just made an assumption yeah no it's not uh during an election it normally say about $10,000 I think that's what I have budgeted right now per question or the the entire election and then I have to check with you know if like if something's added because right now yeah we've already gone through you know yes these two seats are going to be open um no at this point we don't have any Charter changes that had to be done at the I think the end of did the charter referendum idea how all I don't remember that would probably be a good one to look at I'll look at it and see I'm sure will yeah and Al obviously like let's say hypothetically the two seats uh let's just say hypothetically the two seats the incumbents don't have um people run against them and then they decide to keep the seat and there's not an election obviously we wouldn't want to spend 10 grand ask question but if there is an election we might as well research and see how much it's going to cost to pull the citizens on things that are important to us if it's super cheap obviously I wouldn't want to spend thousands of dollars to ask a question um but if it's since we're already paying the 10 grand for the election might as well get our money's worth have you seen this in other municipalities yeah Panama City does it I'll talk to Brian CER I talk to him time to time we would want a limit of question of course we don't want folder fatigue I mean maybe just limit it to you know two or three or even one yeah not like a 12 question thing but just like a you know something that maybe we've talked about in the past that we we wanted because I remember a few months ago we were talking about potentially doing a survey um right and I guess the difference would be the survey with would actually I guess go out to all of our residents whereas not saying not to do this survey on the ballot but we will probably hit about 3,000 residents um or voters say I would say psychologically going to vote you're going to get more responses anyway than just a random survey you got on your water B because people feel empowered when they vote versus uh okay I guess I'll do this survey on the water I wonder if that drive more people to go out and vote right I would hope but that's kind of the goal you want to cuz yeah I'd like to see more than 3,000 or whatever we got last time just nice Definitely research that and well it be a sampling right yeah that's true yeah so so yeah you know if you were to get about if you were to get an answer back and it's like 52% yes over only 3,000 votes you could be like yeah maybe this isn't a a good um consensus but if you got like a 80% out of 3,000 votes that kind of trend analysis shows me that's probably what what the citizens want Amy would we have to do anything pass any ordinances I know before when you wanted to put additional stuff on there you have to pass ordinances and is there a deadline for that I think we would have to check on those so yes there is um you have to adopt a resolution setting the ballot language the the language of that question uh by the last day of qualifying um so whatever the deadline is for qualifying it's no on a Friday um roughly five or six weeks before the election uh that is your same deadline to create and pass a resolution setting that ballot language I think what qualifying is the 12th of February so we'd have to do it we'd have to have the questions done by the following meeting not this meeting but the following meeting right the first meeting or do we have a meeting the first meeting in February coordinates is just that's two let me pull up my calendar and Amy that's a resol solution not an ordinance that's correct okay so they just require one reading one read yeah if qualifying is on the 12th then we would have our February commission meeting before that so we would have two more meetings after this one to get it figured out anything else before we go well if we're going to do something like that we need to be thinking as a group as what would be your top two questions right so that the next time this is discussed we be prepared to say okay these are my two and these are your two and you know like that so I guess by Tuesday if you could find out how much would it cost for us to add something to the um to the ballot um in regards to Ping question it will cost us cuz it would as commission War reference I think it would just be like a referendum question some people because they're still having to calculate the yes or no no matter how it's languaged it's still a yes or no so it'll probably be that that that same you know that same instance um and then you know once we know that then we make a decision if that's something we want to move forward with then from there think over our questions and proba by that La next meeting in January have those two questions two questions per commissioner if a commissioner wants to consider questions being contemplated and then add that you know talk over that in the next January meeting so um will you a put a limit on how many questions you want to put on the ble this as well so just yeah just so what we need to know is what two got yeah she's asking for us to have two questions and then we can divulge over which two you want to you put on gu that's what I'll I'll speak with them about it will be two questions so they will let okay great um anything with you commission herno um yes um we uh our last meeting in December um we had two agenda items um that were um that were addressing the um the water treatment plant and and um I know we one of them was to pause the the the plan expansion because the prior agenda item was to work with Bay County to obtain an estimate feasibility study and I know that you all you all went and you know we're we're going for legislative appropriation but if we don't get legislative appropriation do we have a plan in place are we continuing with the meetings with Bay County and we have um a meeting that CJ is working out with Bay County hopefully next week um is trying to bring every and B County deals with a company that does rate studies as well yes and so we we can still work toward getting a price and you know doing it ourselves if we don't get appropriation because I just want to make sure we don't sit back and wait for appropriation and then go back to Bay County and and I will tell you it it's looking very promising that um one of the things that um Chris and I talked about is um with that EST and and mayor can update you when talk to representative Griff is getting a letter of support from the Estuary when we submit our appropriation we have their support well we just need a letter of support and then from Elizabeth or they're listening did everybody get the email on the newsletter on the on the S program that they put out say Bas she put out two okay yeah but we have already had that conversation with Bay County and County surely is aware that doesn't happen they're not going to leave us hanging they're going to be able to work with us to get this this through yeah so I do know as you know after we had our last meeting um in addition to city man meeting with Mr Lio foot her and I meeting and call B Micah so that we can get what that figure actually is like what is the actual number yes we need we need that as well yes so um I just want to make sure we're we're moving in that that process Direction and we we have a full support of that program as far as I know and and and you know I'm on the policy board and Jessica Graham and Ryan Rosy and the the people that they're they're it was this was their idea um I got the text in the middle of the meeting when we were doing the headwork project like don't do that and know we went to the um legislative delegation that was I believe top priority that we you know that we mentioned to them um was that hey we would like funding for this we mentioned four but that was our top priority um was wanting funding for that and you know mention the collaboration um because they did tell us you might only get two is the vulnerability study ready is it finalized because it's in it was in a draft form so it is finalized now to well okay we have to submit the final um the findings to D so that we can get reimbursed for the EXP but yes the stud has and does does it show that doesn't need to be there based on sorry Does it show the the the progressive flood planes and stuff it does we need all of those that's the winner right there so we need all of those components to because meeting with Bay County and giving that information to rapis and um they have to have all of that information to move move forward so that's those are piece pieces of the puzzle that we need to make sure we have place as well so I I know Bay County is all in they had already talked to uh representative griffett as well um and I I think it'll be a full collaboration that that's what I got from the meeting as well um and then I know we I know we tabled it uh the last time we were talking about this are we going to talk about city manager the agenda item about the city manager's contract and what we were adding not adding there yes so we're going to bring that back first meeting in February okay because then that'll give us time to everyone should have received your uh evaluation via email um give us time to turn those back in assistant city manager hajes is going to between now and then is going to uh contact everyone as we did last year set up meetings to are we going to discuss the the the the multiplier on the pension like we we're going to discuss everything so we we wait till the first meeting in February to do all that yeah because we were also there was mention of salary increase but then there was no evaluation so once we finish conducting the evaluation then we'll have all of that for the first meeting in February we discuss so so if we do this evaluation we're going to have to do another evaluation in like July or August no because when you read the contract they wanted around the budget season yeah and so I does everybody else is like an April and then last year and I I still have questions about a couple things I think the challeng to doing it in July August is that and it it depends on how you interpret you know budget season um and I do understand that it's near the the budget time period but I think if we do it in July August you're going to have new Commissioners that are on board right that they may not they just came on in April or May and now we're asking them to give an evaluation after a month or two no so I think I've been thinking about that and um I think this my personal opinion I think we should strive for that schedule and when you do get a new commissioner they don't give them evaluation they give them like what you probably know this the initial feedback give them initial feedback you don't rate them on anything and say these are my expectations of you right and then that next year they can give their evaluation you just have to know that every odd year you may not have every single commissioner and mayor giving a feedback an evaluation got you now I I see that and I guess is do we want to do an evaluation based on a calendar year or a fiscal year because that's you know because in my mind I evaluate January to December versus September through October which is I think why why that's there because it's falling into that that fiscal aspect um because you can evaluate now and say okay hey this is what we're we're doing here but you know I mean either way we just have to create something that is consistent for the commissions moving forward um that they will consistently have those evaluations so uh so I think we finished the process that we started here um in regards to finishing our evaluation that will be consistent with what we did last year um is that we conducted it December January last year completed that that we complete this process and then we can further this discuss hey when January July August comes around do we conduct another evaluation as it leads into um budget season and how do you you know continue to go from there but uh so that's that's my thought is it right now we have this in front of us so let's just finish what's in front of us first and then discuss what the evaluation is the next time after that so since we're talking about it I would like to Second what he's saying about the initial feedback I think it would be fair more fair to the city manager and the Raider just because yeah just just that way they have an entire year CU imagine if you had a commissioner that came in with preconceived um which everybody does right yeah that might be swayed one way or the other it could be positive or negative but we don't want it to be swayed we want it to be accurate you know um so yeah so to to answer commissioner perno's question yeah we're going to try to discuss all of that at that first meeting in February and then the interim finish condu my evaluation Pro complete the evaluation process and then we'll have a report uh prior to that pre-commission meeting have a report at the pre-commission meeting on Friday uh from Miss Jennifer and then that first meeting in February have I just bring that tabled item back to fully discuss that with all of the the parts in play so um so we hadn't forgot about it but we wanted to make sure I just know when we tabled it we said that we tabled it the second meeting in January but we were going to discuss it at the two pre meetings so I still I still a couple questions I've kind of met with some people because I have questions about the multiplier and and and the the the well go ahead and ask your questions the the multiplier on the pension it seems to be that that the highest multiplier is for is for the um police police and fire people because they are the the they they are like briskers so their multiplier is higher than anybody else's and then the city managers the where we want to put the city manager multiplier is higher than that so I didn't I didn't I didn't know if we need to bring up the multiplier for the for for the risk take or or why why would the city manager has a higher salary to begin with be be a higher multiplier CU in futuristically it could stress the pension you know and and and and that I mean that was that that was brought I I had to learn about it you know I had to talk to people about it and I think and of course Mr J can speak to this too I think as we've been discussing it the multiplier was was increased the way it was was because of the the shorter um time frame which a city manager might stay so but the impact on the pension is is you're talking about a higher salary and you're talking about you know what I mean when you get to that 10e level and it's vested you're you're you're at a higher multiplier you're walking away with more money for the rest of your life than somebody who risked their life every day while they were working for the city so that's that's where my wheels are turning so well a couple of things you've got different pensions um what was being presented is what's typically done in different governments where there are different levels of uh multipliers um we can certainly ask the Actuarial accountants to do a cost projection because you're talking one employee versus one person rather than a whole group um so actually the impact to the pension will not necessarily be as great as you think there will be an impact they can project that they can do it based on um so we can get a number at least get an estimate they'll always say it's not an exact number because they can't run an exact number until there's something done but historically anybody who is the executive director their term in that position is limited and not usually to a full 30 or 20 or 30 years because it's dictated by a board or a group and that can often change on average a city manager an executive director may run anywhere from 3 to seven years um so that's one of the reasons why many pensions will look at that position at a um a higher multiplier because the longevity in that position is often less same as in what would be considered senior management you'll you'll some sometimes see tiers Panama City I think has three tiers um with their multipliers the other Factor too with our first uh responders you have to understand that like at the state I know that they actually max out at a um different year or age group too sometimes they they play with when you reach vesting at a different level of age um different time with the the organization one other comment about the evaluation of the city manager I will point out the contract is a currently a January start contract we did do the first level of uh evaluations during this exact same time this is the second run doesn't really matter when you do it and yes we can always do an expectation with anybody coming in I can set those meetings up it's just to have some consistency so it is for calendar you well her contract is a January it was enacted January 14th and then was um I think current is January 27th when it was signed so that doesn't mean all city managers would be at that date it's just that this particular city manager um was uh the contract was the the full contract was a January um one question two more questions it's contingent on on on on my you know my my thought process on on evaluation yeah so and I I don't know for sure until I ask the question is is this building still under a temporary certificate occupancy is yes yes it is when will we get a permanent certific certificate o and will it will it be incurring an expense to do so like if something needed to be done in order to get the when they finish the punch remember when you give a to person they say bye to you if you hold a TCO over them with a punch list and they can't get the rest of their money and they finish the list so we're holding back so we are we so we are there's a dollar amount so oh absolutely so well then the total figure for what this building cost won't be said and done until we get that completed C and we but but we know exactly what that dollar amount is going to be we do we surely do and then and there will be some LEDs liquidated damages and I guess in in that regard uh I did follow with the city manager I think it was after our last commission meeting about possibly having a workshop so that we could discuss um the construction of this building so that those questions uh could be answered and so that we could you know CU her I sat down probably about a couple hours and went over some figures right um but to have a workshop so that the public would know we you know we would know um what what it cost to construct this building so that is something that we've discussed um and I am working on that as well okay um remember it's a moving Target we're dealing with FEMA FEMA comes and you know with Michael White yes we're going to pay some things they come with me no we're not going to pay some things so it's add add subtraction to many of things um it's a moving Target for us um and um until we can get some final numbers this is these numbers are um temporary uh particularly with with FEMA in some areas not all areas um and so I want to stress that a lot um and I don't think we did a very good job um at the beginning of stressing uh when we first brought this to the commission that this was uh and I know Kiki said it this is not final this is a projection this is a moving Target and as we've gone into this rebuild dealing with FEMA and insurance money uh you know we've seen some things move for instance when Mr White was here um they FEMA promised that they would pay for temporary facilities and they paid a first check and then they came back and said your insurance company will pay for that so we may not pay for it but now we've been fighting that for over a year they've opened the the case back up which is um $1.2 million so you see how that is a moving Target they've already been paid for but those are kinds of things when you're dealing with federal agencies um and you've had so many disasters they are also trying to find ways to hold on to money as well sure well I know it was bit out and we and we selected a the contractor um architect contractor um and and we the commission at that time put a not to exceed so at at the workshop i' I'd like to know that we have the minutes from that meeting what that amount was I I'm I'm I'm I'm I don't want to be vague but I think it was 14 or something like that but but leading to my final question is that there along the way I know we that that not to exceed included because we went with the architect design build it was supposed to include everything uh you know like Furniture fixtures everything and I know that the city did direct purchases along the way and those direct purchases were so that the contractor didn't have to spend extra money right we got it cheaper than so in in my memory of of that is that it was the construction of the building I don't think we had anything in there in terms of um you know Furniture fixtures that because that would have been a separate item anywhere I remember when we did the bit when we went with awarding them the bid it was 13.8 million and it was supposed to be everything in place it was we asked about chairs desk lamps everything I I don't think so I'm not saying you're you're wrong but I if you look at the that's why I want to pull the minutes because I know we talked about that specifically at that meeting okay um and it was none of you guys were here no you you were definitely you guys were definitely not here but I definitely know that there is a c certain amount in terms of the construction now remember before then you the commission also approved um the engineer and architect which was not included um in this building that was $1.4 Million right there for that that that's why we need to hash out what's what's going to this building and what's what wasn't and then where where we sit based on that not to exceed yeah cuz cuz yeah I can see your point where and I see yours too that if it was you know to construct was 14 million is a design included in the construction cost do we do we look at that and include that we're typically like when we're doing with our engineering and Roads and things we say okay this is the I think if we pull the old meetings we'll know what we asked for and then we'll when we do the workshop we'll see what we got so yeah that we and it should be in the contract too right well it should be in the contract but also you guys did go back and approve the Landscaping I remember that um and that I think that was probably about 600,000 $400,000 awnings the were walkway all of those things there but yeah we'll hash it out in a in a workshop and that way like said it'll all be out there it need to be a workshop like said specifically just to um to discuss that so I guess my question to you all in regards to the workshop do we want to let our next pre-commission meeting be that Workshop um how close I know you and Kiki started working on pulling those numbers together yeah um so she's out this week she pulled me some together some of it I don't have uh so that's what I've been working on uh can I just give youate yeah I don't want to make a next week let's look at an update um you know just give us an update and then possibly our next pre-commission meeting would just be that Workshop um gloss over our agenda for sure but some of this is just going to be a second reading right yeah um and so uh it could be that Workshop or if necessary uh just an additional day to have a workshop okay um all right awesome is that that's all your awesome go ahead have a great day see you later don't forget uh 10:00 if you can Bay house is having a grand opening with Ark of the bay and then also coming back at 12: for the unveiling of the uh renam the name of the ch