##VIDEO ID:FtHNPvhvfGc## um everyone we have our City attorney online here um hopefully everyone's had a a good night just all of you last night most of you anyway some of you weren't here um but uh um thankfully we were not hit by the storm uh thank you chief for keeping us updated um on the storm tracker um because I have certain people that think I'm a meteorologist and so they always ask me what the weather is I I don't know um so so thanks for for those timely updates so we could keep track of the storm and thank you to all the city staff City Manager for you know keeping up keeping us a breast on the plan of what we had to respond to the storm if it came and of course all the staff that's a part of that um with all hands on deck certainly appreciate that and um hopefully our citizens you know got prepared for the next one coming by getting their sandbags and such um in preparation for for that uh so let's jump into our agenda um we have our consent agenda um of course we have our regular meeting minutes is there anything that sort of stands out to it's one thing that jumps out at me is number 14 which says discussion and approval um if we're going to keep this on the consent just a scratch discussion and possible approval and just just put approval for number 14 okay yeah just approval it's just a mistake should just be approval yeah um so that that's just really the only thing that jumped out at me from the consent agenda um anything for anyone else from the consent agenda I do yes it's within our authority to not have to bid some of this stuff out back again you can you did that question make sense um you can extend a contract um for several reasons I say for instance with um tetrach bidding out at this this point would make no sense when we only have maybe another the year getting all of our ducks in a row with FEMA in state that means that another consultive company will have to come in learn our system learn everything about us um and then try to work through that um so there are you can give cont contract extensions but you can't you know continually do that as part of our purchasing policy well on one of these we're extending for the second time which you mean King um ditch digging it is it the ditch digging one ditch digging and I think one of the one of the things with that is that you only did at four a year right the the way the prices are are so low it's a one-year contract and then we have the option if the contractor will hold the prices the same we'll do it this will likely be the last time um to be honest I really don't know how they're holding it at $3 a foot um as fuel prices have gone up tremendously in the past 2 3 years since they've had it um so likely this will be the last time we're able to renew it before going back out to bed Chris with that contract um is that the one that it could actually be a 10-year renewal if the price is held for that contract is that no not that one okay s um so there are some contracts that has different time periods on how long you're exactly right we can renew that contract exactly if prices don't increase and such I could remember if it was that one or not and this one we didn't put a an end date that it would you know could only r I think some of them say you know two times um we didn't put that in this one just because of the type of contract it is um but like I said likely because of the prices it will not be able to be approved again I I would imagine that as they continue to do this every year doesn't it get a little bit easier for them to do so they've got a they've got a system dialed in for sure and then that first year we did it you know it was a lot more in depth of digging now that we've got I don't want to say got under control but now that we have a better grasp on the ditch digging they don't have to do as much and they're able to kind of go a little quicker because it's not as much silt and debris in the ditches as as it was that part because that's why they're able to keep it l yeah and if you recall there was a huge gap between the low bidder and the next bidder um and a lot of those guys you know would have hired someone like this to to dig for them contract right and the other part of this too is normally uh we don't do just one year we either do three years with a one threeyear renewal or foure with a four one fouryear renewal this one was kind of a test this was our kind of first time going out and finding prices like this we want to see how it went so we did do that bid a little differently normally there longer terms in in the bid docks yeah and I guess uh this is not necessarily the contract but the ditch digging guess next time when we talk through it um if we could sort of I guess give a little more detail to some of those like 12th Street 14th Street ditches which ones belong to us and which ones don't um for example like when I'm coming out of M Highlands I know that 389 doesn't belong to us and so it's not us to clean those ditches but others don't know that well 389 ditches don't belong to us so then it's like well hey we're the first people they call clean the ditches cut the trees on the sidewalk Etc so just saying as Commissioners that way we could sort of know when citizens call us of course we can direct them to you as well um which is what we should do but just so we can be a prized of saying well hey if you live on this part of 12 and if your house is facing that way that's really a state or a county and not necessarily the city because they'll see you doing ditches on this part of Mississippi but then when you get to this part the inter like well you didn't do my ditches here and then it it you know I me I know it's I'm sure it's something that's common that people ask about on some of those areas they do and there's a lot of issues where you know we've dug the 1200 1100 and 1200 blocks and 1300 and, 1400 blocks and those drained to 12th and 14th Street and the county was behind on digging there as or do is always behind on digging there so it it still caused issues I mean it helped drain the areas but it still caused issues because it couldn't drain down 14th or 12th as it should yeah I have a question on it is there anything in the contract that requires them to go back and fix mistakes they made we make them do that yes um there's been several um Mr Anderson Edwards um he had an issue um with with his ditch over at uh that 13th in Arkansas I believe yeah we had him back over there three times um at no charge you know they dug the they get paid for the additional or the original ditch they dug but if they have to go you know reshape it or or whatever we don't pay them for that okay cool um any other items on the agenda yeah um on the disaster recovery consultant I'm not questioning that we need that not at all because I know in dealing with the p funds you really need someone to help but there wasn't a cost associated with that on this it's no cost we already we already have a contract that you got had had approved a certain amount and we're working off that budget we're hoping that the rest of the money I think it's about $60,000 that's on that PO right now that we can work through um the rest of this year and next year off of that the Davis davidon Davidson fuels and oil um I know we're only we're extending it for a year is there a reason why we're not extending it for three years like we've done in the past they've already had their one year threeyear renewal so they've already been with us six years we um actually thought about that but um we just we just didn't we just asked for a one-year extension um barie you can chime in if you want to actually give them a three-year Davidson he's asking um well Davidson is the preferred vendor and is a reason why we did one year oppos three years all I'm asking no there was no advantage of doing three years oppos there is but a lot of them on the fuel because it changes so much they don't like to do that but they are willing to honor it again this year so would it be advantageous for us to do three year that's my personal opinion yes we would or one year with the option to renew it three times but that price could change yes and it does it changes every time we get a do a three year the price stays the same no no oh so it doesn't matter whether you do three years okay all right we'll just have to bring it back to you if if you right so it's not going to save us any money whether we do no CU you're going to pay for the standard fuel cost plus their fee okay is what it is and every truckload if we get one a month it'll vary right okay thank you um other questions for percent agenda on number 12 talking about the piggybacking on the on the uh County's contract how does that work the whole piggybacking thing so the cting originally bid this out um they had options to renew so they brought it to their commission to approve renewals just like we're doing for you all um and then once their commission approved the renewal then Odyssey sent us a letter and which I believe I put in in the packet and that letter States hey we the county renewed would you all like to continue to piggyback off their contract and renew so we just have to have you all approve the the piggyback renewal so piggyback Works in terms of um if anyone really within this state has a contract um and they've signed that contract within um a year say for instance a year of uh of the date that that another municipality signs a contract and we see it and it's something we need according to our purchasing policy we can pick it back off of that because it's already been bided out it's almost just like the state when the state we go State contract those have already been bided out so the only thing we do is write the state contract number and we don't have to bid it out same same goes with piggyback um but the vendor has to be willing to allow us to piggy back so we have to get their permission um to do that okay are we the only city that does that with no there are multiple cities that probably why they're able to keep the so we've reached out to other vendors as well just to make sure you know to keep their prices on us and Industrial or I'm sorry Odyssey does blow the the price out of the water for the sodium hypochloride good and it's only the onee um term I believe the counties it will expire and so next year they'll have to bid it out so we'll have to if we're happy with the uh price that they have we'll bring it back to you to piggy back off the new contract all right thanks and I do want to bring your attention to number 15 because that that date did change originally when Kiki uh looked on the calendar um everyone had set their dates and U September 10th was open and we got an email uh from the property appraiser one night and said hey um the district is going to set theirs for the 10th now so of course you know we cannot have our public hearings before the county or the school district we have to have them after and so that means that we had to change to September 11th which is it's a Wednesday and you guys had originally approved Tuesday so so the commission meeting will be the night before and then the budget meeting will be the next day public meeting everything commission meeting will be on Wednesday they be Wednesday too all right um anything else for uh agenda so we're all good for the Cent agenda oh I had a question is a Honda good enough for me to buy for one of my grandchildren it does it does have some carburetor issues they're ATVs that's right they uh first reading um um amending the our uldc to repeal regulations in chapters 139 and 10 um and also to adopt the flid management regulations so that's uh of course we're not with the first reading we're not necessarily approving this at this meeting so it does gives us give us a month to really sort of look through all of this so um so we can discuss some of these things today ask our questions today and of course we have commission meeting for more questions then we have our next pre-commission meeting and then we have our next Commission meeting so we get a few shots at being able to discuss this and ask some questions about it um so I don't feel like we have to we're not voting on it Tuesday so so uh are there any questions so far and what we're seeing I'm just trying to Mayor I can brief this issue briefly for you this is um prompted by female revision of the flood maps um and these revisions to your code and various sections of your code um have been proposed and reviewed by FEMA staff City staff and myself to make sure that they're internally consistent um but this is a periodic update that it's required every time FEA upd yeah got we did get the letter from FEMA uh stating that they provided the updates and glad that we're in compliance and those kind of things yeah so we're just changing our flood requirements to what you must absolutely we learned a lesson after looks a lot more than that when you're reading through it but yeah that's really all it is but I will tell you on the backend our staff have been working on this we literally have to have a flood plane coordinator which we have to handle all of this the requirements that's in char Department um and Charles and um his person make sure that all of this is up to dat which is a lot of work all right so there any questions for Amy or staff about this all right uh discussion of possible approval to adjust aate your budget for fiscal year yeah um with this um budgetary change um of course American sand and asphalt invoy uh that was actually in the Short tax should have been in Street you can probably go back to your budget and see where it was in sore tax for moving it to Street um and then um of course the $134,500 is an emergency uh sewer project and um that project happened this past week we have to get that fixed and we do have the money to do it we have some um additional ARA money that we're using to get that done what's this what is this the fourth change we've had in the mid year is that normal oh yeah if you look at some cities they have them almost every every commission meeting yeah I guess it's I guess for us it hasn't been normal us yeah right yeah so the American s in NASA what was the reason for that again um it was in the Short tax budget and we're moving it to Street budget where it should be oh so we already budgeted for it we're just moving it we're just move it into another um Department which is which is going to be the general fund okay yeah all right y so it's actually we're not increasing the budget any no we're just moving it from one to another yeah all right so um s tax will go down street bud will go up with same any other questions on number 18 and you can you Chris can give you more details about the emergency um break that we had this past week yes so our effluent line that leaves reyu site one at the sports park goes down transmitter Road um makes its way crosses over 15 makes its way down Highway 98 and then our surface water dischar LGE site is just behind the Old Paper Mill um right there in St Andrews Bay so we have a line a 24- in line that runs down Highway 98 with a valve at Cherry Street in uh 98 that check valve has rotted it's old it's been there since the early 90s I assume um it's finally rotten and the City of Springfield called us um earlier this week that we had water going everywhere we go out there and that valve is going to have to be replaced um Marshall Brothers um their staff though Marshall Brothers wasn't in business at the time their staff is the one that installed this line so they're very familiar with everything that's there um used to Bay County Panama City and L Haven all you utilize one line and they pump the Wastewater to the military uh Point Treatment Center then in the late 9s when they separated it all they have three 12-in hot Taps where they separate them past renol there on Highway 98 and this check valve was used to keep flow from coming back to Lin Haven um the check valve is no longer needed so we'll replace it with a spool piece um which is just a piece of straight pipe with flanged ends um just cut the check valve out and then Bolt the new new piece in they will also have to do a line stop which is what the $330,000 is and listed in there and that is it hot Taps the line on the Upstream side and it prevents water from coming back on them when they cut the line off open and make the repair so it's actually not located in Len but it's our asset correct correct it's located right there I believe that's the City of Springfield there um and it's like I said it's you have Arizona or Katon chemical and cins renol in the intersection and it's right across the street from from cins on the um what would that be the northwest corner of that intersection and it's in a big valve Vault and water was running down the road we kind of got it slapped off but there's still a little water keeping the Vault full and we have to go over there and just pump it out until we get this repaired interesting all right um any other questions on 18 or 19 so I guess one question um and this sort of piggyback off of what commissioner War asked after we approve the initial midyear budget if there other emergency that come up do we have to then I guess bring it up as part of the midye budget itself so according to our purchasing policy that if an emergency happens and we're not in commission meeting we're going to make that that repair if it's over $35,000 and then we're going to bring it to the commission uh for approval because we don't want poop in people's yards we don't want all of those things to happen and yes we do if if the money is Springfield but I'm I'm just making um but if that were to happen that's what we would do and bring it to the commission right yeah so seemingly I guess as we've approved the midyear budget for the past 3 years or so usually it's been more of a you know hey we can Envision what our projects are going to be and when urgences have happened they haven't been over 35,000 exactly right had to come back and that's exactly make large adjustments and of course this was not budgeted in the sewer budget so we had to take some money from our arer fund so of course you have to approve that as well but it's only for emergencies so you well as for purchases it's over 35,000 yeah yeah was the but if we we're not budgeted and it's over $35,000 it's generally for emergencies yes yes because we're close to approving a new budget so then some projects I know they've delayed to say okay hey we just wait until the new budget year that's exactly right to to incorporate it into that that's right something that has not been budgeted or was put into U say the wrong Department those are the kinds of things when we move money we have to bring it to to you Tim okay you can educate me okay I'll do my best part of this is this where some of if I remember correctly we distribute 20% of our clean water into the bay so we try to distribute as much as we can to the ReUse system for irrigation for Sports Park the residents that have um we don't have a debt on percentage of what we send to the Bay um but but typically the valve is open at 25% just to keep the tank from overflowing like the days we have a bunch of rain and people aren't irrigating as much um to keep the tank from overflowing and that all diverts to the Bay but if any like when I reuse was offline um a few weeks ago for the maintenance we had to send 100% to the Bay so everything goes through that line so we have to have this line because we can't we don't have the capacity of course to keep everything for reuse so we have to have this to be able to discharge into surface water okay and this is part of the the line to exit the yes ma'am this is if you're standing where this leak is um you can look right down the road and almost see the water of where it's discharged any other questions guess my question is for number 19 when it comes to Marshall Brothers is it because it's an emergency why this wasn't B out yes in order to bid it out we'd have to have a you know set of bid documents put together uh likely If you bid a a pipeline repair they want to see some engineer drawings um engineer drawings on this would cost us another $5 $20,000 that's really unnecessary for us to meet the contractor out there and look at what's there um it's more of a practicality standpoint versus cuz we already approved contract for emergency repairs didn't we at one time so we do have the push the emergency push but this is one of those funky items though that you know the fall under that no they do have a push button but the this right because the push button is you know for a 6-in gate valve a 12in ads pipe you know multiple items this is a right this is out of the ordinary kind of material that you need give you some clarity people all right thank you for educating all right uh number 20 um any questions on number 20 all right number 21 is this getting paid by grants or anything or is this all coming out of our funds the legislative so that isible all of it every bit of it but we got to pick we got to spend it first before right that was all I and we were under budget this year we didn't have to take out any roads so really yeah I read something about that so that's surprising yes price is coming down is it yeah it ranged from this was 780 right to 1.6 m million was one of the other bids so it's yeah something big difference big difference still czy it's crazy how expensive that is $780,000 for 1.3 miles well last year it was averaging a million dollars a mile crazy it's crazy yeah two or three years ago it was half a million a mile so wow it's really gone up right any other questions on 21 right uh 22 is this reimbursable too or is this going to yes yeah this this is required by do to hire the third party and it's covered also awesome anything else on 22 all right moving on to uh 23 discussion only on chapter 10 articles uh five and six what it's any thoughts any updates I have one it's more so like M I don't know if it's something we can add in here but you know um there's been instances where people people will bring animals to the animal shelter that they just found on the side of the road but they're not the owner there's a ton of stuff in here about you know um the owner is responsible for paying for fees for bringing the animal in uh and then if they don't have a one Haven address and they can't bring an animal in how are we addressing people just trying to do right thing by bringing animals in because they found them yes sir and that happens quite a bit um even where owners say they just found it and you're sure that they're turning it in um I'm not sure there's a whole lot we can do about that um now the ordinance does say it's up to the discretion of the animal control officer whether they accept an animal or not especially if they're non-l Haven resident um I think the regular surrender fee is like $20 it's a $100 fee if you're a non-resident and it's up to the discretion and when I say to the discretion if it looks like it's an animal that's possibly adoptable typically they will accept it um if it's I'm just going to say a mixed bulldog and we've got 14 mixed Bulldogs they would prefer not to accept it and just recommend them that they go to the county okay so the so it be recommend going to the county as kind of the Y okay anything else on uh articles five and six if not let's um move to our comprehensive plan is everyone good adding that to the discussion for the agenda after uh six after 23 are we ready to even discuss it at a meeting well what happens is we can't discuss anything unless we discuss it at a meeting we're discussing it now well we can discuss it now and just hold off until the next well I'm sorry I was just going to say I think we should just discuss the process of how we're going to implement this so we're not necessarily discussing the details of change this and change that but just saying we can't talk about any of it without without it being in a public form yeah so so mayor before you all get started um one thing I think you may mentioned it yesterday and then Amanda and I were talking about it yesterday just to put something out on the table for you to consider um because um we are in somewhat in a time crunch and you don't want to rush this process there are things within here that have Florida that we have to change it to to um meet the Florida Statutes in there regardless it's statutory issues requirements um one of the things that we could do so that you could have have the time to discuss like you want to is to for us Amanda to identify all of those Florida statues and those things that have to be changed that's a requirement you know no no if and buts about it go on and submit those so that you meet um our time um frame and then you guys continue to discuss and make changes where you want to um without any pressures of trying to meet a Time deadline to this to the state because as he was saying yesterday it's a leing document you can you can make changes at any time with this document that's just a suggestion for you to think about if you don't feel like you're going to meet that by is it February Sor is it February is that yeah we have to all the changes when we said we told if you we have changes we going our deadline um was the end of last year beginning of this year to let them know if we were going to update because there is that 7-year annual requirement to look at it and see if there are things you want to change so we let them know we were going to change it and so we have until um it has to all be finished by February and I feel like that's not going to be enough time because really we have to in order to do that we' have to have it done by the end of the year to send to them to review for 30 days um and so yes you're you're correct so February is the ultimate deadline however we're the ones who told them that we have things we want to change we could actually make text amendments at any time to the comp plan um but this seven-year review is required it's required that we look at it and assess it every seven years so we've told them we're going to make changes but we didn't tell them what we're making changes to we didn't submit elements we're going to take this out we gave them no you know detail so I feel that so long as we update it to meet the current statute requirements and we just had the uh stantech who did the vulnerability assessment one of the huge things we had to do was uh put in um information on Peril of flood and change some of our things related to that in the comp plan they just finished that and sent it to me so I have that I can plug that in um I can plug the new element in I can make all the changes related to that and then I can do a suite to see what other statutory changes have come up things that we have to put in there I don't even know I don't even think there is anything else there may possibly be one thing so I know that I could get that done by October I I could do that easily get those changes made to bring to you bring to the plan of board and bring to you and then if you wanted to we could go ahead and submit that that will be our update that's required but then you can have your update without the timeline on it of the other things you wanted to change does that make sense you could take your time then to go through the process of looking at each chapter in depth because it's a lot it is a lot okay question um so if we go the quickie route they have it approved but then later we decide that the goals that we sent in for February are not the goals that we actually want to address now uh what happens then that the the what we would be submitting would not be our goals it would be things like so we have a property rights element in there we put that in because we were required to put it in so we put in exactly what we were required to put in um the paril of flood stuff has been done by the experts by stantech that isn't something I'm going to mess around with they're the experts they've said okay this they're used to doing updates to comp plan I guess I guess the question is what this is the document that we have and we're saying this is the comprehensive plan which has like goal number one so we saying that this isn't the actual document that's being submitted we what we do is we submit the um you know how when we do an ordinance we do a strike through and in bold we put the new language so we wouldn't be taking anything out at this point but we'd be understand that but I'm saying like right here it says goal number one m so are we not submitting goal number one to the state it will be wherever it fits in the Peril of flood I mean you can all look at it if you want before I put it in the comp plan and see what you think we're saying is is this this document in its entirety is this what we're submitting to is this what the state has to say this is our comprehensive plan yes so what she's asking is if we submit this now as it with our changes right and then we go back and say goal number one we submitted this in February as our goal number one but in March we come back and say we don't want that this go number one we want to change it to you can change it because they know that that's what we have now they know that you're not changing that they know that that's just what is already there I know but what if we change it right they're asking can they make changes after we submit something goals you can make textes you can make text changes whenever you want to make text changes I recommend that you don't do a little change and then wait and then do another little change I recommend that you do what we were going to do with the ear process and that is work your way through the whole thing and figure out what it is you want to do and submit them all at once but if you change something it's a text Amendment which you are allowed to do it's just that if you if you change the text even if it's one word you submit it to them for review they're going to take there's a procedure they'll take 30 days to review it then send back to say whether they're okay with you adopting it you don't adopt it until they say it's okay to adopt it so we just submit it by resolution they review it then they come back to us and they say okay you you know you can do that and then we can have first and second reading of the ordinances or or they say no we want you to do something different or look at this but they don't do that as much now like Dr chapen was saying so how difficult is it to guess I'm getting her question if we take the advice of Staff rubber stamp this and say okay whatever y'all give us we're rub stamp it y'all go with it we come back we change this whole thing around how difficult is it going to be then to resubmit that and to get that approved again no more difficult than if you do that now okay so so that's the that's the question okay yeah yeah yes that that's the question you can change it as many as many times they used have a limit on the number of times you could change it a year but they they don't have a limit on that now so yeah you can submit it now and then you can next month or in two weeks submit another version and the goal of that was just to give you more time and if you don't want to do that that's fine but we're just only going to do the things that will Florida statue yeah and some of the things that are in there are data driven um I don't know now how um strict they are on making sure that you've got supporting data and Analysis but some of the things that were in there we would have to have data and Analysis to support um so that data if they still are requiring that we have to kind of support our decisions if you know what I mean we have to kind of justify it um and so that can take time because a lot of this um 2006 yeah I mean a lot of things have happened since yeah exactly there's a lot in there needs to be changed there's um there are things in there we have like a recreation open space uh concurrency requirement if you look at the what we had as level of service I think there's things like tennis courts mentioned in there I mean there's a there's a whole lot of stuff needs to be changed in there so every seven years is when you have to do it I will tell you that some of the city managers in the past I've only been here since 2012 um there was an update in 201718 um the city manager at that time didn't want to go through the process and so um we basically told them when we were allowed to tell them we can we like we could have done this time send a letter and say no we're not going to make any changes at this time we just have to address it with the ear we just have to let them know whether we are going to make updates or not so the only updates that have been made were the ones that had to be made that were in the statutes because if you don't make them then they can tell us you you're not allowed to have any more future land use map Amendment changes um so yeah the commission and the city manager have weren't open to making big changes at that time back in 17 and this is 18 but I think it 17 was when we looked at it got it so I guess one of the things for us to consider to thank you you're welcome um to consider today is uh as you mentioned moving forward with the process how do we want to move forward with the process in hearing the staff I I think that if we go with the staff's recommendation we can still work on this document concurrently while they're doing that that it doesn't stop us from still having our discussions and um keeping tabulation of our um of our amendments that we would like to see made to it um so we can um mul over that a little bit more um what I was mentioning today in regards to discussion was really just following up on some of the things Dr chapen said last night which is Vision like because that's what's going to sort of guide the document is the vision is if we say we want to keep a small town field then all the other things fall into that parameter of having a small town field um if we're saying we want to have a a downtown district then some of that planning falls into a downtown district or historical district or a business district and not necessarily saying that it has to be zoning but if we want to identify some of those things and the rest of that influen is how we look at the the comprehensive plan so I wanted us to start having conversations ations not about the details of changing the plan but just about those envisioning processes of what we're envisioning before we even start touching the plan because if we like if we don't have a vision then we won't be able to really guide the plan and I think it'll make it easier for us to actually go through the plan with having a vision of what we're hoping to uh hoping to see um so uh so yeah so you know look into some you know have some Vision uh look at some other cities see how their vision statements maybe work out some other cities that we might grow into one of the things I would probably encourage us to do um and of course everybody please give feedback is I I think the challenge we have and this is what I explain to Citizens because I get citizens who maybe like Mr Walker's age range um no no picking on you but you know citizens you know citizens who've you know been here a long time or even new citizens and not maybe Mr Walker but new residents that come and say why didn't y'all do this or why didn't you do that and so I explained the history of Lin Haven that Lin Haven wasn't planning to be who we are today right we weren't planning to be the bustling city of who we are today we was the suburb of Panama City um and so now we've developed into our own community and created our own stability where we're not relying on Panama City we're you know we're our own Community our own City and so the envisioning of that from our previous commissions probably didn't take that into graphs that 20 years ago we might only had 10,000 people here but now we've doubled that and all of that is Vision right and so I would maybe encourage us as we're looking at other cities what is a city that with 30,000 people what are they doing what is a city with 40,000 people you know what are our projection population growth now of course we're going to be limited on how much land we have as to how much population we can have but with everyone to be apartment complexes it seems like we're out of sort of that single home um building and we are going to have a more dense population um so a lot of your subdivisions probably aren't going to really be in our future as much as a lot of um you know multif family complexes so what is that what is that look like what what does a city of 30,000 people look like and how do we prepare for that what does a city of 40,000 people look like and how do we prepare for that that type of growth you know what does that look like you know for our city so there just some of my thoughts any feedback what are some of your that's some of the thoughts I've had since last night is how do we how do we develop our vision I think we based it on you know several factors but one is population and I did look at some cities that were like in the 30,000 population range in Florida none of them are really well-known cities you know it's not like it's a name that stands out um they say okay hey this city has 30,000 so part of the challenge I think in Florida is there's a lot of cities that are size like Fort Walton D other cities and the larger cities are usually 100,000 or more like pensac Cola is like 185,000 people we may not think much of Pensacola like oh it's not that big but it's 185,000 people so it's hard to look at Pensacola and say we can be like Pensacola because we're probably never going to have 180 Bay County doesn't even have 185,000 people in our entire County right um so there are some other factors do we want to be a city that does stuff for the military well then we need to look at what does that like look like for our comprehensive plan you know from a a building planning perspective like what kind of community do we want to become um how does that work with our parks and all those kind of things so um so that was just some of my my thoughts on um you know envisioning things and I think this really gives us a time to carve out our identity as a city I think one of the things that we have not had which has sort of challenged our vision over the years is haven't had our own identity like what is LIN Haven besides the suburb of Panama City like most of the time you have to hey where do you live Panama City Beach you know because nobody know where's Lin Haven like everybody knows where Panama City Panama City Beach is well I live next door to LY Haven or I live things door to Panama City and you know ly Haven so they probably ask you you know well where you the commissioner where where you the mayor well Lin Haven where is that by Panama City right but I think you know what do we do to have our own identity there are some things that we're doing um with our families and through our activities that really is giving us our fall concert series our Spring Concert Series our Sports coming back but you know what is our identity that really makes L Haven unique um and I think the comprehensive plan revolves around that as well you know ensuring that hey as people are as we're growing and building that they're helping with that with that identity um at the same time so so I'm excited ex about it you know but I think having that vision of what we're wanting to develop and getting input from our community on what they're wanting to see because there is a tug of war and some want to stay with the small town field and I guess how do we keep a small town field without conflicting or stieringer at the same time so that that is I think one of the challenges we have as well is that I think we all like the small town feel the neighborly feel I call it's a big little city so I think everyone likes that then I can drive to if I don't get it at Walmart I can go across the puix if I don't get it Publix I can drive three minutes to get to wind Dixie usually they don't have it um if they don't have it then I don't even worry about doing any further than that right but I mean like if I don't get it at Zach speed I go to Slim Chickens or either I go to beo bradies I mean everything is really close together where if you're at the beach or if you're at Panama City got drive so far so I like the big big little city field but then how do we maintain that without telling developers that we don't want to grow without saying that we can't grow so I think that's the challenge we're going to have because what I hear from citizens is hey we like our small town field but also how do we at these amenities without losing that neighborliness but I think that's where we depend on our City activities our fourth of July our times in the Park music at the bay you know to still have that Gathering of community where people don't feel like you know we're losing that community that we've created um but still growing at the same time so those are my morning thoughts wow you've been thinking a lot I have yeah um in looking at this last night the goals appear to be the vision if you're looking at this document yeah but to me I think you need to have a vision an overall Vision right and then establish goals yes no I I agree the goal should come out of the vision like for example if our vision is to become a big city I'm just using this an example then we establish the goals and everything else Falls under those goals yeah with the overall Vision to become a big city you know no I I definitely agree and I again let me say I'm not saying that I'm simply using it as an example yeah I guess one question is um when like commissioner wart mentioned our process or approach um I think our process and approach is simple when I'm saying simple I don't think it's going to be difficult for us to we can do a commission meeting we have a workshop I think the challenge is going to be how do we get information from the community how do we how do our citizens get their input and so I think that's one of the process we have to consider is what is how do we get community input um on what the vision is you know as we develop those goals so I think upfront getting Community input on the vision I think is going to be very important and then from that we can develop the goals and then of course they're going to still be giving input along the way because we have to vote on this we have to you know do other things on it but how did we get that initial input on the vision last night we had four citizens here um planning board I would you know and after that I dismiss Mr Walker being here he he's engaged so I don't really count Mr Walker Joe Brown is always I'm not saying I discount you but just saying okay outside of Mr Walker and Joe Brown who are who are engaged in everything we do as a city Monica was here um um and so that was really what four citizens that we had that are have you know but they're all engaged in what we do with planning anyway so how do we get more input from all the people we hear that have concerns or complaints um about what we do as a city in regards to our comprehensive planning do we so so how how do we do that I think it's something for us to consider as well do we want to have um do we want to host the town hall and just have a big hey y'all come tell us what you're thinking because what we don't want to do on the back end is Citizens say well we didn't have any input on because it is our city right we didn't we didn't have any input on this um so I think if we could you know how do we how do we hear from the citizens to have input on what is it that they're wanting to see the future of Lin Haven look like and not that we all have to agree with it and not that we don't tailor it um cuz some of it's going to be impossible or may be impossible possible you know based on the size of our city then we go back and we talk to our that's when we go back to our staff and say okay hey this is what we're hearing what does that really look like for the city you know is that something that that is that is possible right um so how do y'all think we can get input from the citizens would it be them submitting a survey having a a town hall where they they come in and just give some ideas um uh I know we've had some shetes in the past P um so how do we get input you know from the citizens outside of cuz once we get into our I don't think City commission meetings is really going to be the time for them to to provide that input because we're going to be rolling along right and even if we have a workshop usually the workshop is for us to discuss things publicly and we get input from the citizens but I think having something just for the citizens to be able to come and say hey this is can we each select two people and start there that would be 10 people of various age categories okay um just to to go out among the the people and get ideas and then come back you know a group of 10 is easier to work with than a big group it it is um I agree we could consider that but then what happens is if your person doesn't come and talk to me then and then if you're but your person talks to you right so I guess we have 10 people but we got 20,000 citizens um and of course all 20,000 are going to have something to say so you have 50 people show up right for for an open are you really going to accomplish that much with 50 people all W to get their input well that's why I think we should I know there's a lot of negative things that come from social media but we absolutely should should do a survey so we do the survey survey right Mr Walker are you on social media what are you on Facebook no man okay so we can do it so I think we can do all of it that's why we're getting the feedback see I'm not on Facebook so we can do a so I think yeah but most people that are going to be around for our future now that's a good point yeah and that's what we have to think of we're looking for the future we should be asking the people that are going to be here in the future no so I'm not against social media but how it's a it says comprehensive right yeah a so I get what you're saying not just one thing we need multiple yeah multiple so we can we can talk to 10 people I see B we do talk to 10 we can we can do that what I don't want is for anyone to feel like they didn't have a voice to be able to express it that that's thing definit it's it's like a and of course methodists operate different than Baptists but in the Baptist me we let everybody okay now are you throwing that out cu I'm but just you know like so example we can have a big meeting but in that big meeting we can still have it organized right so I think we can still do a both and so I'm not saying no to your well even with a small group it's all open for any any discussion yeah so not meeting and you know security area so I think to me having too many people is a good problem to have because that's something I've struggled since I've been an office where I want more people to come to meetings but you see typically most of the time it's always the same people which I'm not saying they shouldn't be there but it's it's nice to see new people and more people getting involved and to me the more Community involvement you get the better and I agree but we have the same group so therefore everything's going to be channeled in a certain direction we need to bring some you know different people in some young people for the next 20 years or 30 years sorry to say I won't be around so but i' still want the city you right progressing I think we could possibly do all three so we could have a focus group is what you're referring to so we could have a a focus group um and so okay hey here's 10 people that part of the focus group um but we you know we also have our planning board plan board has to be involved you know they're going to be making recommendations as well you know as we're as we're going through so we could have a focus group um but also hey here's this because I'm just what I don't want again is the backlash if y'all didn't give us the opportunity to have any input so hey here's a a oneand done Town Hall here it is give enough publicity for it everybody comes gives your feedback and what we do know is everybody's not going to come but we don't want to say that we didn't give the opportunity for everybody to be able to come you know to that and then we could also have a focus group of five to 10 people to talk to um and then do the survey and we can also we can also intertwine them too so you could have because you know there's people that will come to the town hall but they don't like uh that's my pH you do uh you have people that will come to a town hall but they don't necessarily want to speak in public so you could have them come listen then you could also have like a QR code for them to just scan their phone their survey while they're there yeah I think that's how you sort of as you mentioned that sort of again it's not a melee right you moderate it you say this is our topic because what happens usually with Town Halls people want to talk about different topics this is all we're talking about is this is what's the future of Lin Haven what do you want to see and then you sort of outline what they looks like through the survey and then people can fill out their survey while they're here get some feedback on that because again I think everything that everyone proposes may not be feasible for example if we have some that say why don't we have a downtown like Panama City does Florida Avenue is not a main artery of Lin Haven so we're we're not going to have that downtown like Panama City has CU Harrison is a main ottery you start in Lin Haven you can drive all the way in and Harrison takes you somewhere it takes you down to the um Bay to to the Bay takes you to the marina it used to take you to their City Hall to pay your bills and all of that not saying that Florida Avenue can't be thriving but it's not I don't just naturally go down Florida Avenue unless I'm going to a backway to Ace hardw I'm actually going to Florida Avenue for something versus just I'm on my way through so being able to share with them we can't have that type of downtown we can do some things on Florida which we're planning to make it attractive but hey you might want this but we can't someone might say we want to walk over we've had we even commissioner perno was talked about hey having to walk over from Florida Avenue across over here so they can get to K Griff uh Shar shefeld Park easier we can take that in but then we come back and talk to staff and talk to State they might be to say hey that's not really feasible so I think we get as much input as we can survey talk with a focus group for example we could have a meeting at Mosley and say what do you guys see for the future of L Haven um when when we had our marriage youth Council when we've done that we're going to get that kickstarted we've had to make some adjustments to it is uh they had a lot of good ideas you know um most of their ideas revolved around being a green City and solar so it it's stuff that's totally different than what we're doing now you know um so I think that's another other way is do we take it to those particular areas and and talk to them um you know like uh B brings together a group of industrial leaders once a quarter well we could ask Ben hey could you not that you have to have an industrial lunch in but hey can you talk to some of the Business Leaders and ask them what do they see you know as the future L Haven when we go to Florida Avenue we talk to some of the businesses that are over there like you talk to the on that wild route they have a vision for what they want to see on Florida Avenue you talked to Miss Monica and her dance crewp they have a vision for what they want to see on Florida Avenue so I people do have Vision but it's do how do we give them opportunities you know to to have that input so I think one of the struggles can to be is people not having a general Vision just talking uh bringing up specific situations and problems and things which we know we have I think that's going to be one of those struggles feedback and I think what will help there I think our best uh uh probably Town Hall that we had was when we had L Cherry to come in and facilitate it you're going to need a facilitator if that's where you're going where you're going to have to have a to town hall um that she can facilitate um the big picture and then go in and narrow it down to what people are really wanting that was really really a good Town Hall I know her very well and she does a very good job of that ly Cherry um ly it used to be ly gager um and then second thing is we have these advisory boards that's another place that we can pull ideas from like we have the community services Advisory Board CRA Advisory Board um that we pull uh information from those folks of what they like to see they can do that within within those meetings take notes submit it here some things here if we want to to be a little bit were structured I will tell you after Hurricane Michael we had I think it was about four or five workshops on how to rebuild this city what did you want to see many of the things that's in this building actually came from residents what they wanted to see um and and there were a lot of people at those because they had a vested interest and what they wanted their their City to be to be seen as and rebuilt as so um definitely many options um to do that um but I definitely think we should use our advisory boards that are that really a already a participating audience that they have to meet anyway so in those meetings engage them then uh um that we can get those done but I I agree you know with with commissioner Ward is you know getting people out so we got to find a way to tap into uh getting those responses back and surely um we can we can do a survey and I think it'll be um very good it can't be a long survey we can do a QR code um uh actually Stant did that when they came here and talked about the vulnerability assessment uh so all of those things can happen um just you when you guys ready give us some direction of how we want to set that up so we could start putting in place yeah a a facilitator I like that so I guess from a a Time perspective um again I think if we put our big effort here initially it'll make the goals and stuff easier right because we know what the goals are we work through that so um this is my suggestion I me you know let's let's see what we go from there is uh in order to meet the deadline for February to allow staff to update what needs to be updated We Begin our work concurrently um but we have our budget and all that coming up before us and so I think for the if we would like possibly for the month of August September allow that to be the envisioning time possibly maybe in September we roll out our um survey we roll out the facil you know the town hall possibly if it's not going to be too much to conflict with budget time for staff um cuz and when I say the facilit cuz um okay well I'm but now are y'all leading the meeting with the facilitating though that means if you're we're trying to roll those out you got to be able to get a secure facilitator you got to put all of that stuff together you got um we we got a lot going on in September to get that this budget that's like top priority for us right yeah and everybody works on it um right well I'm I'm trying to get us so that we can actually get started on the document in October and not because if not then we're going to wait another two months before we get started um but if you if if you go and do with you were just talking about Amanda going on and making those changes then you have as much time as you want uh that's that's one of the reasons why she was she was saying that so we can go on and say yes here's changes we made now you are not in a state where you're rushing to try to meet a deadline you don't have to do that any feedback from y'all I think the key here is we just need to have an outline like which which is what you're doing right now it's just as long as we have a a set outline of what our vision our process of how we're going to do it because if we have that then we can get it in our minds all right this is what we need to focus and looking at at this this is only need to focus on looking at this which you're obviously that's what you're talking about right now so I'm in full support of that I just think that's the key is having that outline and the timeline right I work better with the time I think with with timeline um because as I mentioned last night it's there's 13 chapters so we could and let me say this isn't our first time digging into a document I think we went through this with the international property maintenance code and we just took it a chapter at a time and just really dug in um I do hear Mr chapen 6 months to a year I think because we do have the pre-commission meetings although we're saying hey this is one commission meeting to look at chapter one which is 13 14 pages we actually get two shots at it because we have our pre-commission meeting then we have our commission meeting um so if we look at even if we look at two um I think within 13 meetings we meet twice a month um that we could get through it and I'm not trying to rush us through it but I think we could get through it because from listening to him and then from listening to the concerns that we have over the time and like the details and things is really more the ulc that really we're really talking about a lot of times whenever we're talking about development and such and not so much I know this is an important document but it's really the ulc which says what we can do the this is how it looks in in practice right um we have this document here which guides what the ulc does but that gets really to the needy gritty of probably what we're wanting to change are those standards and regulations yeah lvr all right yeah two points I'd like um what if these are not the goals that we want to use there's three goals here for that first section that you're talking about us revie let me give you an example not that this is what I'm saying I'm just simply let me everybody know I'm simply using this as an example one of the goals is to um forget the exact wording it is uh protect historic resources right all right we might decide that that's not a specific goal it could be an objective right it could be a priority but do we want it to be a goal for the next 30 Years right okay yeah so I think before we spend too much time we need to really know what our goals are that goes back to our vision oh exactly right so I'm not proposing that we jump on this I'm thinking we get the vision stuff which comes from the surveys the town hall and I guess the question is at what point do we want to start working on this because I would suggest we don't start working on this until we get all that information for the vision that's our first job I think is the vision is that once we get our vision in place then the strategy which is the goals falls out of that so I think so so that's the thing you know at what point do we want to start Gathering the data for the vision is really so I think Step One is data Gathering which then informs the vision and then once we get our data I think we can start rolling from that point to look at you know what are our goals and then how do we meet those objectives you know what are our objectives to meet those goals from that so I guess I think it's going to take a lot longer than we think to do it effectively that's just my opinion it could I guess it depends on how bad that we think things are that we need to change so that that's the other that's the other part is I don't I'm not saying it's not going to take long to do it effectively but do we throw this whole document away and say we're not going to do anything that's in here oh no you know so but also depends on how different the vision I mean this is not something that's normal for us it's going to take time we're trying to figure out okay I I honestly I feel underqualified for this I'm going through it and it just makes my brain hurt thinking about it we got all the professionals yeah well yeah and that's what they get paid to do right correct corre um it's just a lot of stuff and I get that it's not you know set in stone that's what the ulc is for but this does drive us to where we want to be in the future and that's why I think it's so important tonight I I just think it's going to take a while well I meant some of it won't be changed unless yeah we make drastic changes like land use types you know that's still going to be in here well unless we go zoning which that's going to be sure a pretty big conversation yeah sure that might take a while for us to decipher you know that's the direction we want to go or not so so from I'm hearing I think so one thing to keep in mind this is a very high level document so I don't want to commissioner War's comment that you know he feels underqualified you're an elected official whose job here is to think about the long-term vision for the city even if you don't get all the data you hope you get from your citizens um and to your comment mayor yes you do have a team of professionals that will Implement um the direction you want to go so I don't want anybody to worry about being underqualified because you are exactly in this position now for this moment to think about what you want your City to look like um but it is a long-term big picture document um and then once you have that in place we'll make the changes to the comp plan we'll make the changes to the lvc everything else will follow but you're correct to look at the big picture what you want the city to look like so one thought um because Alex I do know we have budget stuff coming up um is to use the month we we could get through October or get through September um October we could use that as our and we could start Gathering data now but we can use it as our roll out for data Gathering because once we get to November December the community is disengaged Thanksgiving Christmas New Year's everybody's happy you have less complaints during the new doing Christmas because everybody's happy well maybe their focus of complaints is in the city maybe they complaint well they're complaining at Walmart all those other places right so they're stressed out right their complaints with Amazon so but we can go ahead and do a um a survey just asking opinion from what we're hearing is staff is saying they're going to be engaged in budget stuff because what I so if we we could use the month of October or if we just start Gathering data now because so let's say let's say if we use the month of October to gather data then we could use November December our meetings to sort of talk about what that looks like from a vision statement perspective and then when we come back in January we can hit the ground running with you know goals objectives those kind of things um or we could gather data now then when October comes sort of start looking at what does that look like from a vision statement but then we'll lose momentum in November December because of the break so I do like commissioner um Vandergriff idea you could do the survey now but you're still going to have to as a commission give us direction is what you want those questions to be what do you want what do you want how how do you want us to to pull this together we can surely do that which policy is is in your rim and then we just follow that in terms of what is it that you would like to hear back from those residents like what what are those questions you want on there we could surely put the questions together but they may not be what you're looking for um so you know we can start working on that submit some things but then you're going to have to prove yes these are the questions I want to ask no I want to ask some additional questions um to put in this survey uh so so that's going to take a minute or two but we just need some direction on the survey we can surely put it together and put some questions there that's not a problem but we want to make sure it's what you want um to ask residents as well well I think the first go around you want it pretty simple and easy you know what do you want the city to look like in 20 years or what is your vision for the next 20 years for ly Haven what goals would you like to see this commission work toward or you know just maybe three four five simple questions because you're going to have to compile all this information yeah and and I would tell you flid Le of City cities has a survey down pack um that when they send out a survey you don't have to sit there and type a lot and and I will tell you again people will not respond to surveys where you got to sit there and type up a whole bunch of stuff you got to give them choices say so what do you want to City to look like so you you got to have about 10 choices there choose from one to 10 then we can go in and gather that with data just pulling pulling all the ones together all the all the fives together whatever it may be um so when you ask that question you got to give them choices so what are your choices of what you would like to see this city look like so if we do the survey now when we do the town hall is that so we we could roll the survey out August September I guess we do the Town Hall in October but then we still have to come back and compile that data to go along the survey data well we all we also have to have the the choices that's the service right so let's take the next couple weeks to think about what needs to be on the survey yeah like for example say what kind of City would you like L Haven to be there's small town is a descriptor you know what are some descriptors of what they would like Lin Haven to look like um you know look at some descriptions of what would like to smoke because I did like what you just mentioned you know what are the goals for this you know maybe five five to seven questions on the survey um and then you rank yeah and it and possibly it could just really just be the questions could be going back looking at our current vision statement and just sort of asking that what what type of development would you like to see in L Haven because this is saying you know to promote infield development within core residential and Commercial areas of the city and allow mixed uses okay well what what kind of development would you like to see L haven over the next 20 years and then give some different development options so I think our questions are sort of based on the current Vision that we have I think that breaks down into what the questions could be and then given those options so we can get the feedback you know from the community on small town whatever the other descriptors of a city might be right you know and then development those kind of things so um so are you directing me to go and and began the survey start it put it together then send it out to you all where you can massage it is is that what that's what I think okay yes I like based on our current Vision okay okay so whatever you know the topics that we're discussing in this current Vision it's sort of developing the survey around because that's what the purpose of the survey is is to to get our vision and then we go from there all right great well um that's our time for today and is there any other pertinent issues to discuss before we go I something I wanted to bring up was wanted to get you guys's something I've been thinking about something I want to get your guys' perspective on the budget process I feel like you know September rolls around it the the city presents the budget this is the trim rate we want to be at and we get just the one question whether you approve it or not approve it I personally wonder if it's better to have different options such as if you were to keep the the trim rate the same let's or let's just put it this scenario let's say the city wants to increase the trim rate right now it's at 4.2 doesn't mean it's set in stone yet get that um but let's say they do want to do that and that's the what the budget is based on so they present us a budget based on the 4.2 mill rate and then but what if we had other options like what if you keep the um the millit rate at the same rate what would your shortfalls be right and of course you'd have to prioritize that to the things that are the least critical least important and then you have another option of what if you do it at the roll back rate what would your shortfalls be and then depending on what difference of the the current rate versus the projected rate if there's a a big enough difference another one that might be in between I just feel like we kind of get box in the corner and it's like well here you go and either approve it or you don't approve it got it I would like it where just my opinion if this is our shortfalls we as a commission decide are we willing to take these shortfalls or not got it so if I'm hearing you're saying that if we if they hey here's the trim rate for this then these are the cuts that we're going to have to have for the year to to meet this um I guess almost like three different three different budget proposals maybe three to four I mean like let's say they're going from 4.0 to 4.1 then you probably have three of them you have what they want the what the base it on the current rate and then base it on the roll back rate and then you wouldn't have the one in between there really isn't one between between 4.0 4. but let's say we went from 4.0 to 4.2 then you might have a third one that's based on the 4.1 term rate got it so what do you guys think about that I know it's going to be more work but I think it's worth okay Finance person in here well I can tell you because Kiki and I both work on this budget is that um when we do the budget we're doing Cuts then I mean serious Cuts so when you get it it is probably you're probably not going to find any other Cuts in there that's just being very honest um and that's okay I'm okay with that so if we do and we like man there's no way we can take this so when residents come to us and they say well you guys increased the millage rate okay if we wouldn't have here's the implications if we didn't you know what I mean and and not just to tell the residents but it's I think it's important to us to know too is if we don't do that here's the repercussions that'll happen if we don't got it yeah um so sounds good uh so we would say these are the programs we would have to discontinue if we did not raise the millage rate I guess it's more if I'm here if and I'm not trying to talk for you but I'm just getting my understanding is providing justifications for the actions that we do take um and we have options you know like there might be something like I'm willing to cut that you know or we say we are willing to take that shortfall and be like okay got it and obviously you're not going to put it something on there that's really critical like the sewer plant you know you're going to you're going to put something on there that's like okay maybe and I'm just throwing it as example you know um some of the events that we have you know Easter egg hunt or something you might have to cut that you know or or maybe you're not going to be able to have this or you're not going to have that you know stuff like that so from what I'm hearing commissioner from what I'm understanding and I'm just picturing it in the other organizations I was for budgeting we really don't have as much input into the budget it's really more this is a number that's presented and we just vote on it versus like take it or leave it versus yeah versus hey do we want to increase the budget for this and what does it look like what is it going to take to increase like if we come back and say we want to put more money to the fire department M but what does that look like to put more money to the fire department so as the commission we're really not giv those options of if you want to put a million dollars into the fire department a million dollars into this or if we want to like for somebody wants to build a football stadium H so if we want to build a football stadium if we vote and say we're going to build a football stadium what is it going to cost us what does the millage rate look like to have to build that football stadium we can do that and I thought we were doing it maybe not in the 101s that we have with you I mean Kiki already has that trim amount set up in there and then at any time excuse me she can go in there and change that to show you how the how the shortfall is going to look that mean that's what we play with all the time so we're aiming for the low always but you may say hey I want to build a football field so we'll put in 4.5 mes that's just you know then you'll see oh okay that's that's what happens that so all of your 101s that's that's surely the time and then we can share that with the residents um then um because if not you're going to have three four different budgets because she's doing it not necessarily saying different W yeah if we were presenting this to the you present the budget that the city wants right that they're proposing and then okay okay if we do uh the trim rate at the current rate we're not going to raise it or if we're going to do it at the roll back rate these are the area we're going to have to cut in order to get there that's basically what I'm getting there so I'm not asking you to redo the budget I just oh no to to do another budget for each option yeah I'm and that's what I'm saying we can plug in 4.0 like it was last year you can see the whole budget what it look like in general fund right for that uh I want to see where it's 4.2 you can plug that in as well right and see that live what the shortfall then we're only getting that option one onone versus the commission as a whole being able to see the option I think is what a commission work to see right I mean there's one thing to see is numbers but it's like okay what specifically are you going to have to cut for that fiscal year if you do if you do these other rates that are lower than what the city is proposing I mean we can surely do that we'll just we'll have to work hard to make sure we get it done yeah cuz some areas are not going to be cut like if you go if we drop the M rate to 3.9 we're not going to cut the fire department because that means we're cutting employees but you're going to cut XYZ right so it's I guess he's saying how what areas can we highlight to say if we decrease this if we propose this millage rate or trim then this is what this is going to look like for these particular areas you will still get that in your oneone and then you can come to together and talk about but I just want to let you know that option is in your 101s to be able to see that to see the changes that will happen on each and each individual budget what it's going to look like in the end if you do this because you she'll go back to the detail and it will let you see where you are in the red if you put it at 3.7 and then if you go and put it at 40 where you are in the black so you can you'll definitely be able to see that um I think your 101's are the 26 we're still working on the budget of course Kiki is out um for uh the next two weeks um but we will surely be able to give you all of that information I mean I love the idea because that's what we do we we do that all the time yeah and I'm not buying and it's just I think if we were to show the residents what the implications would be if we did that I I know me if if I was in commission I would appreciate that oh okay I see where we're at you'll be able to see it real time if we change it and I guess it's like what we do for the rates because whenever y'all bring us to water rates y'all give us three different options and that was the second thing I was going to bring up is what if we do the same thing for the rates and the storm water assessment fee if we don't do especially storm water assessment that's a big one right um if we don't raise it what are the implications if we don't raise it yeah you know once we have a working comprehensive plan the budget will have to relate to whatever we wish for our vision or our goals but and that's what we talk about when it comes to uh I don't think we had one this year but last year when yall first came on we had like that strategic planning workshop that we had with the commission was that hey our budget sort of aligns with whatever goals they have which then if they're doing if we agree to the Strategic plan that they could created then it makes it a little easier when they bring things to us should make it easy when they bring it to us for approval because we've in some sense already approved it and now they're just going out to do the things that we said hey let's go do this um but then when they do bring stuff to us that we ask them to do we say no then it's like well you you told us to go do this um and you you know we're doing it now you're saying no so um but yeah comprehensive plan is going to be a guiding document for us on everything we do oh one other question Bay County has a comprehensive plan don't you think it'd be wise for us to look at it since we are in Bay County not to guide us but just to be able to see what their priorities are piggy B that's the key oh yeah the piggy typically that's what we do with typically that's what we do with everything is we look at what other areas yeah like Bay County Panama City what other if we're changing a law or coming with an ordinance we usually look at what other people have already done in the community um you know to to do that we could look at their comprehensive plan I think part of the challenge is their vision is different than ours oh just to see what they put as priorities like one of their priorities might be to work with their uh municipalities within the area just you know an example so we so we might need to include that in ours to work cooperatively with the county govern yeah all right well awesome I've enjoyed my time with you all last night and today I'll see you Tuesday