##VIDEO ID:FzllW6xncRo## e good evening to everyone Welcome to our uh CIT and Haven best practices and comprehensive planning workshop today we're um very honored to welcome our special guests are Dr Tim chappen uh the dean for the College of social science and public policy Professor for the Department of urban in Regional planning at Florida State University and so as we get ready to move forward in updating our comprehensive plan wanted to invite him in to hear his uh expertise and get his um guidance on the the focal points in which we can address as we're doing our comprehensive planning and to also answer any questions that we might have and so we would like to do is to allow him time to uh make his presentation and then feel some uh Q&A after that time so uh Dr chapet we're gonna let Amanda go to do some introductions as well yeah you can come on yeah thank you mayor I was basically just going to do what you just did okay um but but maybe with the addition that um we are about to go through our evaluation and Appraisal process for the comprehensive plan we have to do that every seven years um we did inform the state at the end of last year by our deadline that we would be making some changes and they gave us until basically February um to have the changes made but we really do need to try and get it done by the end of the year and I know we've we're only going to have maybe one meeting in De December um because we need to get it up to them for review so my goal is for us to go through that process so that we know what we're changing we've got the document in place and we can send it to the state for them to review at the end of the year thank you well good evening good evening again I'm Tim Tren I'm the the dean of the College of social sciences and public policy uh been at FSU 25 years I'm an urban planner uh trained at Georgia Tech uh many years ago and then I got my PhD at the University of Washington came to uh Florida in 1999 and the reason I'm telling you that is I've been in the state a while and almost all of my work has been in the State uh I've done research work Consulting work Community um uh discussions like this um I probably worked in oh 45 of the 67 counties over the years that I've been here in all sorts of capacities I love the state you have a beautiful Community uh and I'm I'm real honored to be able to speak with you and and try to help you navigate this process C uh my hope today I'm going to grab my slides so I can have them handy as I can see them right there um is I want to talk with you a little bit about the power of planning and the importance of your plans and your regulations to uh help your beautiful community be even more beautiful even more successful economically um in terms of its environment in terms of its people so that's my hope for today is to give you a little bit of the bigger picture and that I'm happy to then talk with you about the important work that you're doing and looking at and and then updating your uh uh plan and reg ation as you see fit let me sort of start with again I started with this already what I hope to do first of all tell you about the power of planning uh to help this beautiful community be even better I want to make sure that um we all understand the language here because it does matter in a state like Florida where plans are required Land Development regulations are required uh I know you're all wonderfully uh engaged you you get it but often times I I work with some uh um communities where people don't quite get the difference between a plan and the Reg regulations and development orders and permits and these are all different things I'm actually going to spend just a little bit of time making sure we're all using the language in the way that I think we need to make sure we're using it I want to talk a little B about best practices around these things uh as well uh I do want to make it clear that uh I'm not here as a consultant to help Lin Haven uh in any spe uh specific way uh you I'm willing to to field any questions but I don't know your community uh I I uh I've purposely not done a tremendously Deep dive on L Haven this point because um I don't want to present myself as somebody that knows what's right for your community what's right as your as the elected officials and from the citizens as well uh you have great leadership at this uh at the deis uh you have great uh uh planning staff as well so if you're going to uh sort of throw questions at me should we do X or Y uh you're going to watch me dance a bit and PR try my best to not uh tell you what uh to do because frankly that's not my role in this capacity um that is the community's role that's your citizens role that's your role as the elected officials uh and staff uh so I want you to understand that uh that the context of this is to help you think about the role of this process of planning the plan Your Land Development regulations and not uh engage in uh on this particular parcel here's what I think you should do because I just don't have the depth of knowledge and and and don't want to pretend to so just want to set the stage on that front let's sort of make sure we talk about this very key question as why do we do comprehens of planning and the very simple reason in the State of Florida is because the state tells us we have to uh Florida is one of a handful of states around the nation that require every local community our 67 counties in 450 460 uh cities uh and jurisdictions and towns to do comprensive planning but the real reason we do planning is not just because the state tells us but because it actually when it's done well allows a community like Lin Haven to be even better it allows us to offer a higher quality of life and if we do things right make wiser better infrastructure Investments that actually keep the housing costs and other costs down in the long run when compared to other communities uh you can be more attractive to private investment you could be more competitive for state and federal funding um uh the evidence shows and this is some of the work that I've done the communities that have um well done well put together plans uh tend to be um uh have higher quality of lives uh and and better development outcomes and by that I mean they're more sustainable and I don't mean that just environmentally I mean that economically that they uh the businesses Thrive uh and the community benefits from the development not just today not just in two years but in 10 years and 20 years and so on what I'm sort of pointing to is that comprehensive planning when done right and I'll I'll hold up the caveat there are lots of communities in this beautiful state that I would argue don't do it real well and I think your community has done a good job but could do even better I guess as I have peaked at your plan we can talk about that later but communities that have engaged in and see the value in educate their citizenry and engage their citizenry in comprehensive planning and the uh the flow on of some of the other stuff are better off in the long run uh I'm a planner by training so obviously I'm going to come and tell you what a great thing planning is but uh I will tell you that the evidence is pretty clear that when done well the communities can be stronger and I'll tell you your citizens are more engaged in the ways that you want them to be engaged asking the good questions helping to hold you not just accountable but also helping you to think about the future of the community that they and you want together particularly as you lead it in the roles you play Let me now just do a little bit and again I'm I'm a longtime Professor so I'm going to go into just a little bit of Professor mode just to make sure we're all using the same language here and then the reason I'm doing this is because so often I see as I've done Consulting work and work around the states that people don't quite get the difference between plans development regulations development orders and development permits and I just want to make sure that we understand understand that the role of a comprehensive plan is as a Visionary document it is not the implementation document it's almost as if you're building a house except it's an everchanging house right Lin Haven is essentially like a big house it's ever changing people move in they move out you add rooms you might throw a porch on you might expand the driveway you always building and rebuilding this Lin Haven house and the plan is supposed to be the vision what do you want this house to look like why do you want it to look that that way you can get into things like colors and and uh choice of a Greenery and uh lawn decorations that's part of it but also what do you want this thing to look like is there a style is there a Vibe is there a a certain um um uh uh sort of form that you're looking for in the house and the plan is this big Vision document so if you're working with that architect what do we want the home to look like and why with an understanding that that home is going to evolve over time as will the plan as will the vision for it Your Land Development regulations again just to make sure we're on the same page these are things like um zoning uh like your code that uh uh indicates what's allowed what's not uh things that are in the details about what can go on a piece of property uh those are the implementation or part of the implementation of that plan so again where a lot of communities get confused is they think the plan is the same thing as the regulations when in fact that's not the case when it's done well a good comprehensive plan is your vision it's the big idea it's the way do we want to be in why and the land of Ed regulations are then supposed to say well then how do we get there what should go on that piece of property or what are the allowable set of uses on that property uh what are we looking for in terms of the design the form the density the intensity of the development there so we've got a plan that's the vision You've Got Your Land Development regulations which you might almost think of when you're talking about the house analogy of you're getting your detailed uh engineering and other drawings about the house you know how are we going to actually build this thing what's the room going to look like what are it Dimensions what are its materials we're getting into the now we're adding on to the house what is this thing going to look like again let's keep going through the process you've got a plan that's a vision you've got your development regulations that talk to you about how we're going to get there and then you've got these amazing things called development orders that then ultimately allow somebody to go about doing something to the house in case in the house analogy or to build something in your community again and I see this routinely with uh with uh commissions although you're a smart engaged Bunch but I've had other ones again don't quite understand that a development order is different it's another step in the process uh and it's important that you understand that and that you help your citizens understand uh that this is part of uh of that as well so this is a step in which a a local community says yes developer X you can do something on that property and you know have permission to go about building whatever it is that we uh agree that you can build and then we get a whole another thing that again gets conflated into the whole planning process which is a whole set of permits that's when you get your folks going out there and they're looking at inspecting the property to make sure that it's uh uh um built uh correctly and safely that the water and the sewer uh hookups are done appropriately that the HVAC that the electrical work is being done right uh so we're getting into the permitting and then the review of the uh installation there and again this is basic stuff and I suspect most of the people in the room get it but I want to make sure we're all talking about the same language because too often people conflate these things and they're not the same thing plan Vision development regulations how do we implement the vision development orders what are individual decisions about Parcels uh pieces of property in the community as they get developed and then what permits are uh issued to allow that to happen not just on the development of the land but the building of the buildings on that land now I mentioned a little bit before that the State of Florida uh has been in the uh comprensive planning game for a long time we actually started this Believe It or Not way back in the 60s and really got going with it in the 1970s uh we're one of the earliest adopters as a state uh in terms of requiring local governments to do um plans it's important and Amanda mention this and hinted at it that the state is an active agent uh in comprehensive planning in the State of Florida they're a lot less active than they used to be and I know I'm on camera and if they're watching out there hello to the former DCA folks now not Deo dooc um the uh but the State of Florida used to be very Hands-On in the review and uh approval of local comprehensive plans and even some of the larger development orders around the state um that regime changed about 13 years ago 2011 was sort of the last big change in this uh the state still does require uh as the planning director mentioned uh an e and EV evaluation and Appraisal reports sort of a revisiting of your comprehensive plan but they're a little less Hands-On than they used to be and I actually would argue they're a lot less Hands-On I see this as a good thing for your community by the way way you have a lot more freedom when it comes to the planning that you're doing the vision that you might have and some of the implementation measures that you might pursue uh unlike um 20 years ago when I was out in the state talking with local governments many of them would say well we're going to send it to then DCA the Department of Community Affairs and they will either let us do something or not uh the state is largely now sort of out of the Hands-On local government business they make sure you meet the minimum requirements but you've got a lot more opportunity to think big and think different should that be the direction you choose to go again the plan the Land Development regulations and development orders these are different things and let's just uh again I want to make sure we get that down for everybody now when it comes to these things called the comprehensive plans for the longest time they were very formulaic I'm not going to get into this stuff because this is sort of the this is the less Visionary this is sort of the nuts and bolts of the requirements the state has certain um specific requirements about comprehensive plans you got a great planning director a great city manager a great elected body a great City attorney that will make sure that you're in uh compliance with these things but the state does lay out some of the U minimum requirements for these comprehensive plans um including goals objectives policies you supposed to link these plans to your uh infrastructure Investments your Capital Improvements program and so on along way of saying the state does have some minimum requirements it's important that you meet those but there're a lot less I'm going to use a technical term here pnic about these than they used to be um they they're a lot less Hands-On they more or less are doing a big look to make sure you're generally compliant with what's going on now why did Florida do this and why does this impact a place like lyh Haven well first of all let's talk about why do we have state comprehensive planning in Florida well it's it's a to my view um a good thing because everybody has to do it so what it does is require everyone to do a baseline level of some planning and when it comes to a wet low-lying uh fast growing State like the State of Florida we have lots of communities challenged by water issues development issues infrastructure issues um uh uh um Economic Development issues and the plans allow us to begin to tackle those a bit in every single community in the state the real Secret Sauce in Florida compared to many other states is that in Florida your plan and your Land Development regulations your vision and your implementation measures must be in compliance and this is a really important piece I'm from the state of Virginia that's where I was born Virginia has a state planning requirement in which you can have a community plan and Land Development regulations but there's nothing in State Statute in Virginia that says the plan and the development regulations the zoning the other codes you've got around your Land Development have to be in compliance so we can say in our vision we want to look like this and we can have regulations that take us a completely different direction in Florida starting in the 1970s there was this requirement that the plan and the development regulations are supposed to talk to each other um and that's important to understand and part of the success of the State of Florida in this model few other things just to mention I know you've got some wonderful citizens here listening in and I suspect we may get some questions from them um under the Florida model public participation is not an uh a sort of an extra it's a requirement um it's important to understand that uh and that can be a joy and occasionally a challenge uh I've been on both sides I've consulted with local governments I'll say use the term fighting development project and I've worked for developers proposing a development project and people can reason disagree about these things but the good thing in the Florida model is that they can and have the opportunity to disagree about these things and weigh in um uh to elected officials uh and other uh decision makers on these things so public participation is required and the other thing that I like about plans and this is part of our evaluation and appraisal report this ear that uh uh the planning director was talking about plans in Florida are living documents um it's important to understand that unlike a house in the house analogy sort of breaks down when you think that most people don't build a house that's forever expanding because your population is expanding that's a a relatively rare thing uh most people build a house they've got a vision and they build the house uh in the case of our communities most of them are changing year by year uh Florida is blessed by bringing in over 3 million new residents every decade 300 to 350,000 people a year net residential change a lot of them in migrants to the state uh that means our communities are changing uh so our plans need to evolve and the process allows for that so again background information about comprehensive planning let me now uh skip that one and talk about one of the most important in my view and this is where I'm going to get into a little bit of a DOD shape and opinion here and that is one of the most valuable roles of a plan and one of the V most valuable elements of a plan is a future land use map and a future land use map is not what is the community developed like today commercial here residential here industrial here park here um public institution City Hall here it's what do we want the community to look like in 10 20 30 years and different plans have different Horizons by the way and that's something that uh is up to the community how far you want to look ahead but a really good plan has a really nice future land use map that is you're never going to realize I've yet to come across a community that says in 20 years we're going to look like that and in 20 years they were right so just like all of us have plans for our lives in 10 years I want to be in this position earning this much money my kids doing these things and so on and so forth almost all of us never get it exactly right but it gives us that Vision to work towards and the future land use map is and I've got in the slide there a graphical depiction of the jurisdiction's vision should its goals objectives and policies be implemented over the next 10 to 25 years where do you want commercial development what type of commercial development do you want in different areas of town um are you looking to build a sort of a walkable uh Urban node of some kind and if so where is the vision for the community around that and why uh and then what are the uh other Land Development regulations we could put into place uh to make that so um so the future land use map is something that is very valuable for uh communities uh can be very contested um it's important to understand that a future land use map is not a zoning map future land use map is the desired use on that piece of property if you have a zoning code with a zoning map that's what's allowable today and under the Florida model again to get in the weeds here under the floor of the model uh the idea is that you have a future land use map in 25 years we want to look like this and then your zoning and your other development regulations point you towards that vision and in fact what usually happens is a good plan says this is where we want to go now we need to update Our Land Development regulations and we need to think about the permits we issue and the development orders we issue in alignment with that vision I promise some maps here just to show you a little bit to see what these things look like um I mentioned before a little bit oh actually this is one um this is a conceptual land use map from up in my neck of the woods not not near here a very different part of the world uh I grew up in Suburban Washington DC Falls Church Virginia which was a tiny little town in the middle of nowhere back in the day and is now uh inside the Beltway and just uh overflowing with development and they're tearing down the small houses and putting up big mixed juice development this is an area of outside of DC called Tyson's Corner and what I'm showing you here is that this is a plan that was developed many years ago for this part of the city um and this is and and the colors um sort of speak to uh the types of uses that that as they were looking to develop the Tyson's Corner area um that corresponded to the vision for this community now this is a very builtup area I'm not saying this is an analog at all to Lin Haven but I'm showing you this one show you that we do this in highly urbanized areas but we also do things like this in places like Deerfield Beach I've done a little bit of work many years ago this is there out of their compehensive plan this is their future land use map some of the code um that if you do this long enough you sort of get used to seeing these things yellow is residential red is commercial that's sort of just sort of standard practice so you can see sort of the strips of red along major roads U that's their commercial development they've got one or two nodes out there the yellow areas are your residential areas uh the green areas I believe are some of their parks and golf courses for that Community but again this is the community of deerfields Beach uh their vision for in 10 to 25 years and I think this plan's four or five years old so we'll say uh we're looking for 2040 2045 as they look to develop that community and there's a lot of undeveloped land this is generally how the community wants this to be developed uh you'll notice some specially hatched areas in there um this is their way of saying we have some I'll say contested zones where we're not sure exactly if there's going to be residential mixed juice or what that's going to be so they own up in the plan of some uncertainty around these areas but again excuse me um communities like Deerfield Beach which is much more analogous to Lin Haven um uh are doing these exercises and again what this allows the community as you as elected officials work with your citizens or from your citizens to have discussions around where do we want commercial how dense do we want it to be where do we want industrial manufacturing light manufacturing any of that if you've got much I frankly don't know Lin Haven too well in terms of your uh land use mix and then in terms of your residential uh where do you want um more dents apartments or condos or uh midrise uh uh type things versus single family homes um duplexes and other things like that so again the future land use map is one of the most powerful Tools in part because what most people can do as each of you are doing is you're staring at that map and trying to figure out what's where you can see the interstate in this case running right through the middle of Deerfield Beach um gives you those spatial locations um uh indicators so that you can begin to have discussions around what about that part of the city that's on the water that's near the interstate or whatever it is might be so the future land use map uh is one of my uh sort of a best practices if you're looking to really think about having a conversation about the future of Lin a land use future land use map and and having robust and I will tell you there's going to be disagreement about it but having discussions around that um with an understanding that this is not the future this is a desired future that we will never get to but we're going to then revisit it over time as part of our uh planning process um speaking of Land Development again this is where a lot of folks get confused we hear comp plan and we hear future land use and then we say okay that's so that means that's what's going to happen on that piece of property let me go back to this uh prior slide on Deerfield Beach and pick your favorite yellow splotch of land and say okay so the plan says it's yellow the plan says it's residential it's always going to be residential right no not necessarily this is the vision for the community but the real power to get to residential if that's what that Community wants is a really good zoning code that is in alignment with this future land use map and again it's not that hard except that you've got a community that's Dynamic with different Visions uh different points of view about what the future may look like so it's actually incredibly hard but in terms of the actual planning process a really robust comprehensive plan flows immediately from a future land use map into your zoning code and into your um zoning uh map zoning just to remind us uh is about current allowable uses and this is again where sometimes people get confused fused uh uh zoning says as of today on this piece of property this is what it's zoned for these are the allowable set of uses and you may say well I don't like that allowable set of uses and my response is you're allowed to not like them but if the zoning code allows it you typically you're going to run into issues if you try to not allow uh something along those lines um so one of the things that when I talk with communities and work with them is I say your zoning code is your implementation your plan's your vision the zone is ultimately when it comes to Land Development probably the most powerful tool you've got in your uh in your toolkit to help to work towards that plan to manage growth to get quality development quality growth a lot of people think of zoning as a well that's taking away all my rights or uh limiting all the rights of of of land owners um a good zoning code actually does not do that and in fact it's it can't do that uh in many cases the courts there's lots of got a great City attorney over there they can they can wax much more poetically on this I can but a zoning code is about enabling things right but it also does provide some limitations when it's done right and when it's in alignment with your comprehensive plan and your future land use map again this is where communities start to really see the power of planning take root um there's sort of two big types of zoning out there there's this thing called ukian zoning that a lot of people think is mathematics or or theoretically related it's actually from the town of uid um Ohio from back in in 100 115 years ago um that uh sort of came up with an initial version of saying you know what we don't want the slaughter house next to the kids school we don't want the slaughter house next to where people live we don't want the industrial smoke producing industrial use next to where um uh kids are playing where the church is whatever it might be we think it makes sense to separate uses ukian zoning does just that and this is a sort of very classic example I'm not even sure what community this is this is a a slide from one of my many lectures when I've taught over the years at FSU and essentially this says as you can see the commercial strip right there through the middle of this community again red commercial uh the yellow and orange are um different version of versions of residential development if I recall correctly purple is uh is that uh industrial uses um but you get a sense of this community saying here's where we want commercial development here's where we want residential development and the um purple industrial uses are set aside from those primary areas ukian ukian zoning is very much a separation of useles model it's sort of the deao standard in the United States and in Florida um it's a good old standby I'm not here to tell you it's a bad thing in fact I think it's a wonderful thing and uh but there's an emerging version and I'm not here to shill for this other alternative approach but that an emerging version is this thing called form based codes and form based codes are a different version of what we might think of as Zone in or uh Land Development regulation and what I really want to speak to let me uh get to the next um uh slide here is traditional zoning is about what can I do on a piece of land whereas form based codes say I'm really less interested on what happens on a piece of land but what the development actually looks like right so what is the look of it what is the size what's the density uh some formas codes get into things like what materials or colors or things like that I'm not here to say you want to go that whole Direction anytime soon and I'm not even saying that want to even go to form based codes but there's an emerging model particularly here in Florida where we don't have a heck of a lot of heavy industry um that we have a lot of communities like beautiful linh Haven that have environmental features water residence commercial uses um but we're less interested in sort of is that a car wash or is that a uh um a commercial uh development to where so I can go in and buy is that a liquor store is that a bookstore I'm less interested in what the actual uses on that commercial property but what the look of the property is so I'm just holding up for you again this idea not that traditional is better or worse than form based codes they're just very different choices um um so I'm less here telling you that one is better than the other I'm just sort of saying part of this is for you to understand as Commissioners and for the community to understand is you do have some uh different ways to get at this to think about the implementation of of a plan and and one of the big sort of distinctions um that we're seeing in the field of planning right now now is are we really interested in what the physical use of the property is again is it a car shop car repair shop or is it a bookstore um um or are we interested more in what does it look like how does it fit in with our vision for the community and I will tell you that some communities even do a little bit of mix and match they'll do some traditional zoning and then in certain districts they'll say we're much more interested in what it looks like and feels like rather than is that a commercial a residential or a light manufacturing use something like that so again the message here is that you have power options ideas you've got great staff great leadership uh to think about these things um I'm less here to say do one one or the other than other to say you have some options but implementation matters and your Land Development regulations particularly through zoning are one of those powerful ways that you can Implement your plans all right let me sort of bring us to an end here um and um say one last very important piece and that is um to mention a very important state requirement that my experience has sh shown most communities fall way short of this and that is that under the Florida planning model we not only just have a plan with Land Development regulations but the the uh um comprensive plan is also supposed to help guide your infrastructure Investments where are we going to build sidewalks what roads are we going to expand where do we need parks where should the newest Library be those types of things a really good comprehensive plan says here's my vision and I'm not just going to implement it by rules around zoning and what I can devel Vel and how and where and the permits I issue but how so also how the community is going to spend its hard-earned tax dollars to advance the community in terms of the location of facilities storm water uh whatever it might be let me sort of Zoom to a close here and sort of tell you the the the big takeaway when I get to uh uh uh uh things and based upon again 25 years of work around the State of Florida is this is what I see in most communities a inefficient expensive and problematic model in which you have a Capital Improvements plan which is your infrastructure spending plan for lack of a better term you have a comprehensive plan because the state tells you you have to you have Land Development regulations and you have um infrastructure Investments that you make and they're all just sort of happening and there's never sort of much Vision to it there's no guide to it it just sort of happens because people don't um uh have sort of that anchor Vision to adhere to as you think about where should we expand the sidewalk system where should we uh extend the sewer line where should we with DOT to expand a roadway those types of things and as a result in Florida we have a lot of scattered development uh overloaded infrastructure I've done a lot of work in communities where their schools go from having no students to just having them falling out the doors because they don't have a a good connection between their plan their development that's approved and their infrastructure uh you get a very reactive planning model I'm here to tell you if you really want your amazing beautiful great Community to be even better what we're looking for is a model in which that comprehensive plan is the vision that doesn't dictate but it guides your Capital Improvement program and your uh infrastructure Investments it guides your Land Development regulations and where you choose to approve or not approve development in communities that do this well uh what they usually see is a more um I'll say engaged citizenry I can't guarantee you 100% happy citizenry I I run a college of 5,000 students I will never have 5,000 uh Happy students at FSU I guarantee you that uh there's always going to be disagreement but if you talk about a vision and we understand where we're headed it tends to make for a more engaged um more informed uh Community uh you get desired land use change you get infrastructure that supports development rather than reacts to it so instead of solving your traffic problems you're anticipating uh and guiding uh some of your development by your infrastructure Investments So the plan is implemented through regulatory means uh your ldrs and your investments in your infrastructure system so I hope that sort of gives you the the flavor of what I wanted to talk about um I'm happy to try to answer questions uh um I'm happy to engage in whatever ways you can uh again I want you to tell I do want to hold up I've worked in a lot of communities in the state um uh I'll talk bluntly with you uh you're not the best I've seen in terms of your planning but I've seen far far far far worse I think you've got a great Foundation great leadership great staff and I think that you're uh you're very much uh uh on the right track I've been lots of places where it's a um it's it's a building that's on fire and I'm there to firefight I'm not a firefighter I'm here to say okay friends uh how can I help you be even better so Mr Mayor all right thank you Dr uh chapen for that great review and providing Clarity on the different aspects of the comprehensive plan and regulations future land use map and such and what we would like to do is sort of go through Comm commers numerical order 1 2 3 4 5 or 1 2 3 4 and if your question isn't answered by a previous commissioner's question then if you'll answer your question at that time then once we sort of exhausted our questioning here then we can turn to the audience to see if there are some questions um that are there as well uh so my question I guess my primary question is how much of our the comprehensive plan is regulated or required by the state you know the various statements the things that we're required to do um so that we you know how much of it is actually adaptable or change or you know able to be changed versus how much is fixed um so we'll sort of have an idea of what we need to focus on that okay well we we can't change this so no matter how much we discuss it talk about it like it don't like it we can't change this but these are the areas we can change so that would be one of my questions is just knowing how much of this is fixed fix and do we need to once we complete this then go into our regulation documents to update those per this because I think as I'm listening to you I think a lot of maybe what we discuss a lot of times and what we probably are really trying to change is more the regulations versus the comprehensive plan itself um as you're saying you know it gives us division but a lot of times our development orders are based on the regulations and we're we're we're debating what the regulations are so one how much of this is fixed and by part then that will let us know how much we can actually change and then do we need to um at the same time or at a different time work on our regulations once we complete this to then go into our regulations or try to do it simultaneously great great questions thank you so so the first one is I've got good news for you and that is that the state does have minimum requirements for comprehensive plans um uh those are laid out in statute uh the statute used to be many many many many many many pages long it's a lot less than it used to be uh so there it's the the the state essentially says here's the skeleton of a comprehensive plan here are the key pieces that have to be in there land use Transportation conservation um uh and things like that those are the musts those are the minimums and you have to satisfy those and if you were to just go you know what we just don't want to do a a conservation uh or environmental piece of the plan uh we just don't want to do that uh the state would then say wait a minute remember the statute you have to do it so there are some minimum requirements the good news piece is that um if you meet the minimum requirements the state tends to be very very hands-off when it comes to plans again i' I've worked in the state 25 years when I was going around the state in the early 2000s right in the big real estate runup before the Great Recession um the state was heavy-handed in the review and uh and dictating back to local governments how to handle plans and frankly that's part of the reason they changed the rules is that the local governments and citizens and local governments got so frustrated by the state that they end up changing the rules um so the state has minimum standards but they don't prescribe you must you must have policy X Y and Z it's it's much more uh you need to be speaking to Transportation conservation infrastructure housing things like that so it's pretty the the requirements are modest and much more modest than they used to be second question this is usually the number one question is wait a minute do we do the plan or can we just go straight to the regulation and I will tell you that I've seen communities do both um I will tell you that right now you have to at least revisit your plan because of the evaluation and appraisal report the E the ear uh a very exciting acronym the ear uh to update the plan so there's a minimum requirement that you revisit it um I have seen communities that go you know what we've Revisited our plan we'd like it we don't want to make any changes and and under the current planning regime in the state there's usually no uh uh flow on effects related to that um having said that I'm a big believer in the power of a plan uh I think that if you do it right um uh there's an opportunity to lay out that Vision to reaffirm it um so uh uh some communities do a lot of quiet not quiet a lot of internal work staff leadership and then they take it out to the community others take it to the community and bring that back I'm not here to argue that either there are benefits to both approaches um so in my view you update the plan first and then go into the regulations having said that um I've seen many community ities that sort of go we think the plant's good enough and we need to fix the regulations um I will tell you for decisions today right if you next week or next month uh Your Land Development regulations are um are much more important than your plan is the plan is a a non-binding Visionary document that says here's what we would like it to be down in the future um Your Land Development regulations tend to be much more binding about here's what's allowable well I don't like that it's allowable but it is allowable there before we've got to a wrestle with that so give me a long way of saying um communities have done it both ways um I I've seen many and I if you're asking I guess I'm going to ask myself a question and say Dr jaen what do communities do more uh they typically go right to their regulations and work on those not saying that's the right way to do it uh if you've got the time and energy I think the plan making is the more is a longer run more important piece thank you commissioner PE thank you uh my main question is um when you look at the comp plan and the future land use map and the zoning It's seems to very be very much specifically the different Parcels uh I guess my question would be like if we wanted to focus on for example we have two main highways that go through our city if I wanted to say like down this highway we have specific regulations to businesses that are on this highway but I don't necessarily want them to be required on this highway so we can make it more specific what would be what would be the best route to do something like that um there are a few options a lot of communties will do Corridor studies they'll look at a certain Corridor and say we're really interested in doing that um they'll either do it internally with staff sometimes you'll get help from outside um uh but Corridor study is a good way to do things it's important to understand that when you're visiting Land Development regulations and the plan itself U I've yet to come across a community that does that starts from scratch right um so most places it's it's be too much time energy uh and effort to do everything everywhere all at once right uh so uh the idea that the community might focus in in certain areas is possible Corridor studies are a great way to do that um there are things called overlay districts I don't know Vicky and that oh you do I've SE not so overlay districts is another way to say within this area that and it's geographically bounded Parcels in this overlay District are going to be handled in this way and that's a very common approach great question thank you this is my turn um gosh we in in my experience here as a commissioner we've we've done lots of land use changes lots of uh you know lots of different lots of different things regarding our Comm our community redevelopment area or so I'm just kind of I mean the comprehensive plan is an overview it's like a looking looking from 30,000 ft down yes sir then where we've got to work is I mean our work here in linh Haven is capacity can we handle what's coming growth-wise and what type of growth can we sustain in certain areas of our city you know I think we're we're reaching an overload or a maximum in some areas of our city for some multifamily type housing that's going in we we're we're seeing the impact of of of of that type thing you know um I know you've probably worked in a lot of communities in South Florida with zero lot line homes with you know house house house house house house house linh Haven's kind of got areas where there's big yards you know and we've worked on uh we've worked on um we've kind of went backwards on changing our plat from in some of our areas where where you could you could dissect your property and put two houses we we've we've we've gone we've gone that course over the time I've been here I mean it could change again but but I think you've you've set the course we um I mean is our comp plan that bad you know when you talk when when I hear what you're saying is do we have everything we need for that that High High View we've really got to get down to you know our our smaller areas our corridors our you know our our our our neighborhoods that that are that are different types and do we want to preserve them as that type or do we want to let this other type of growth come in there that's that's the big question I don't have a question other than a statement as far as that goes so I mean if you wanted to to guide me along the lines that I I I think your I think your answer would be you need to work on your regulations right the mice again this is where I I don't know what I don't know and I so I'm uh um from what I've seen I think you've got a workable plan there's there does uh I do wonder I'm not sure about your future land use map again I um we we in the City we don't have zoning unfortunately um that's rare uh for us not to have zoning Houston doesn't have zoning um so what's happened is the future land use map that we have rather than being like a vision document has kind of become a zoning map in that if somebody wants to do something we look to see if it's an allowable use um we don't have zoning requirements we don't have size of lot requirements other than in the historic plat area the things that zoning would normally take care of we have that information in our unified Land Development code and one of the things that I would really like would be for us to have a proper future land use map where you will decide you know how we would like to see things in 20 years where we would like certain businesses to be where we would like to keep our historic area but I feel like in order to do that we need to bring zoning back what do you think on that is we need a working document too so I I don't know why zoning went away it was before I came here and I don't really know how we get it back again we might need to work with somebody a consultant to help us but I feel that that might be an important piece and this is again goes back to what I what I don't know um uh the the a community of your size that again hearing this again I've not done a deep dive um I have a full-time job that keeps me busy um but I'm thrilled to be here don't hear that as a as a negative thing um so I've not done a deep dive but my sense is if I'm hearing right uh you don't have much in the way of sort of zoning guidance that that's surprising for a community of this size um that it can be problematic there are communities out there um I'm sort of wondering frankly um back in the day I don't know when can I ask you all when was zoning abolished or when when did this go away do you have a is there institutional memory looks like 06 06 okay and did the and the state was okay with this I'm sort of surprised under you know Tom pelum and some of the others that wasn't here either okay yeah yeah I understood Bobby wouldn't know dang I thought you knew I would have bet you knew you were oh you were somewhere else okay well that's that I didn't really have a question other than a statement but we we have I I mean I know you you don't we have a large plat um you know the the Air Force Fuel Depot is here and we're we're we're entertained semiannually by a group of people who tell us how they want to develop that area and it it is going to be a a large track it's going to be an it's going to be an overlay a new plat that kind of stuff it it has its own um development map so to speak they they they come and they change it and tell us you know it probably has every type of development in it at this point you know so so we're you know we're looking at that but it's it's it's happening in front of us you know we're we're having we're having a lot of multif family homes being built you know a lot of a lot of tightening up with you know dense dense population type stuff and it's coming in and amongst historic area you know like older 1911 plat you know we have General in streets are the are the state names and the and the numbered streets here so and they still have ditches in the front yards you know and we have a uh you know we have our work cut out for us I mean I don't have to mention that we need to increase the capacity of our water treatment you know to handle the development and all that stuff so I'm I'm I'm not being a naysayer I I just I just know I know what you're saying and the top level's good and all but and I see what Amanda is saying but we really got to be strategic about every particular area of our of of our town where we're going if we're going to if we're going to lay the groundwork for the next 20 years you Mr commissioner I hear you and this is a common um um this is a beautiful unique Community but you're also you're in Florida you're in a f fast going region um you some of the challenges you're facing uh there are lots of other communities that are facing these same things infill and density people day are moving here MH so and I would I would urge you and I think you've got great staff and and I'm happy to point you all to some some other communities that might have been wrestling with some of this um you know you don't you're not um you're not the first to face some of these things there are some some some things to be learned not you know and I would never ever this is something some communities make is you say well they fixed it let's take whatever they did I wouldn't do that but I think learning about what some of those options are so I hear you loud and clear sir thank you right thank you uh commissioner Ward uh first thank you for coming down I I know we talked I don't know was like a year and a half or so ago and we had a pretty good conversation and appreciate you doing this for us um just to kind of give you an idea of comp plan that the way I see it is if you read the purpose just the first couple sentences it says the city of Lin Haven desires to retain the small town atmosphere oriented to families that has been its tradition the city's intent is to maintain the tradition Town development pattern and historical appearance of its AR architecture so I think some of that I mean I think it was a good Vision but as we're talk about how many people are coming here and that I feel like some of that a lot of that has changed here and so I'm of the opinion that the comprehensive plan needs a a vast um revamping because of a lot of changes that's happened here um so to me it makes sense to do the comprehensive plan and the Land Development regulations that's just my opinion iion um one of the other questions I have is I know there's not a probably a definitive answer but for a city of our size to revamp the comprehensive plan what's usually the timeline how long that usually takes that's a that's a I'm going to give you the classic professor's answer it depends right um some communities to go into hypers speed I've worked in some that within three or four months that they will really move Mo it fast they make it a priority uh it usually takes real leadership from electeds and staff and there's a real commitment and there's a real mobilization uh in those cases there was typically a pressing problem they had you know a sewer system that was just absolutely falling apart um they were they were being sued by somebody and they really need to revisit things um so some places can do it pretty quickly um U many communities um some some some start and never finish um which is the worst outcome uh I've worked in a few where they get going and then they have either leadership change or the economy changes or they just sort of go e this is a lot harder than we thought it was going to be let's stop um and that's the worst possible outcome in my view because I think youve you've set the stage and then people start to distrust the process and the plan um to my mind a good processes is six months to a year to do it well um uh but it can be done faster it's all it's a lot of it's a function of your time the communities engagement how you want to do that are you doing it yourselves are you uh engaging somebody to help you um so so I'm giving you a long winding it depends answer because that's the truth yeah that's one of my worries is we have a deadline and I'm I'm afraid of of doing this and then feel like we're we're rushing it and to that actually because that's been one of my concerns is that we've been waiting waiting waiting what other things we worked on and so my question is you might know the answer to this if we are obviously starting to work on it will they give us an extension or will they make us not will they tell us we can't have any more land use changes while we're in that extension period 20 years ago you'd be in trouble right this the state would say your plan's out of compliance you you've missed the deadline they back um yes I'd request an extension just to be safe but the state is a lot less engaged than they used to be there were there were certain things in the statutes that we were required to update and we've just had that vulnerability assessment finished and we've had part of that was they we're going to do our Peril of flood um stuff for us for the comp plan we've had that so I have the information I can put that in I can make those changes and we could send those to the state and then I think we're in compliance with all the requirements that they have of us so maybe I could do that and then ask for an extension so that we can do a thorough overhaul there's a lot in there that's outdated ated the only the only observation I've got is you could do a plan update to meet the state's minimum standards but the state doesn't say that's your only bite at the Apple if you chose to let's get the state be compliant get that done in the near term and then if there's will to say okay let's really go after this thing and spend 6 months N9 months whatever it is uh that you choose to do you can do that so it's important to understand in the old regime again the reason I going backwards I spent a lot of time fighting the this is your chance we got to get the state involved and now the state is much much less involved so I think you've got much more ability to think big if you choose to with the understanding that when you think big there's a lot of effort a lot of time a lot of energy and angst I'm going to tell you when you're talking about the future of a community people will not disagree or not people will not agree about this and that's normal that's that's the beauty of of living in our communities that we can have different Visions but uh there's good work to be done and I think if you do it right you'd be better off but I I don't want to I don't want to mislead you that this is an easy Endeavor um I know one of the other things that we had discussed before was how we're kind of a unique City where we have areas that are unincorporated and totally surrounded by Lin Haven and I know one of the things we did uh we did the uh agreement with the county where we can have enclaves to try to take care of some of those um there's probably nothing in the comprehensive plan to kind of help that is there try to plan for that you Florida has allowed lots and lots of curious jurisdictional boundary changes over the years um there's even one or two that cross county lines uh in the State of Florida which is always interesting that you've got a city that is in two different counties but that's neither here nor there um I don't have a good answer to that one those are messy problematic uh and and uh um the plan I my view is what the plan can do is help set if you've got an enclave that you don't control because it's not uh um not been annexed into the city but you set the vision and pursue that Vision around it it's remarkable land economics are a powerful thing part of the reason the community is changing is land economics are a powerful thing and then that's a way to sort of uh um I won't say to to sort of help shape the development and the ways that Lin Haven wants it to be shaped and that could be a double-edged sword too because there's probably areas that you really don't want to incorporate into Lin Haven you know um last question I have is is uh storm water been a big uh issue for this area especially ever since the hurricane Michael we got impacted by Hurricane Michael and I have some ideas of to try to help that especially with uh developments like especially uh high density developments um have you had seen some best practices in that in the comprehensive plan that you think would apply here so this is where a good comprehens of plan will lay out sort of a high level set of Standards right we we want to have a certain level of uh um of flood protection we want to ensure that development uh carries its own weight when it comes to storm water uh control um storm water and I used to teach an infrastructure planning class we did a lot on storm water management um that's much more in implementation that's a Land Development regulation and also an infrastructure and uh and uh and um when you're working with developers making sure that uh that you really hold their feet to the fire that if they've signed on to do something that the literally the pond is deep enough it can accommodate things and that there is a larger and we also need to understand where communi sometimes get in trouble is storm water management is not a parcel by parcel thing it's a system thing uh so and the plan can speak to the need for a systemic approach to storm water control but it's really not the implementation place for storm water control yeah I I think that's kind of what I was alluding to is some of the ideas I have probably followed more into the the FDR or not the ldr it does the uh um comprehensive PL so like for instance um I think there's one development I don't know why they don't use it anymore but they actually have a valve that's connected to their retention Pond and they use that for reclaim water and to me that would be my vision is when they have new development especially subdivisions and that that they utilize that which would decrease the load on our infrastructure and then hopefully be able to tackle uh storm water issues but that probably Falls more into ldr than the plan could speak to a goal to um you know have 20% of development to service by reclaim water for um uh on-site you know uh maintenance of so you have a sort of a goal and then the regulations work towards that goal but the plan says here's the big idea and really then the implementation is in the ldrs in that case it gets a lot down into the permitting and and and even the development orders where you're working with a developer and saying okay in return for this you need to do these things and then making sure they do those things great questions thank you sir awesome thank you very much uh thank you I enjoyed the presentation and I wondered if we can have a hard copy of the presentation you're happy to to share as you as you see fit absolutely yes okay or digital that's right we are in okay thank you no no if digital's fine um I just would like to review it on my own time all right if I understand you correctly everything reverts back to the vision our goals our standards our Capital Improvements all relate back to what the original vision is for this city correct uh in a good comprehensive planning model the comprehensive plan provides guidance to all those things yes there is there should be a linkage that decisions about what to approve a development about what type you know how big a pipe to put in the ground U those things the plan doesn't say here's the wording that should be used or whether or not you should say yes or no but it provides the vision yes ma'am we have some work to do all right thank you uh commission there any questions from the public yes sir good evening I know you're waiting for this I enjoyed you picked at it exactly right first of all comprehensive plan the way I look at it and I've been through a few of them is helped by one thing as citizen involvement every time we do get involved with it and we've been involved in it putting stickers on the walls and everything you haven't listened to us anyway comprehensive plan is that it is it is a plan it's not a law that should say You must have one doesn't say exactly what you have to put into it say anything there's no police running around saying that you have to do this a plan you have more than five plans dealing with this thing you start with your Capital Improvement you start with your Charter your UBC your comp plan your state laws you have all these things in fact in use one primary thing that you mentioned here you don't go with zoning you have people with property in here you don't have any control over you have no way of expanding this city physically anymore except internally as you suggested that's where you're at and that means density so we could be here for a year figuring out what's wrong with the comprehensive plan it along with all your plans that you've got here are outdated this is not a town that was incorporated in 1911 is a city it is growing yes have to get a good objective at this you have to get people that know what they're doing signing what you have in front of you to what you plan for the next 50 years going to be very difficult you're going to have to require a lot of Citizen input a lot from your directors that are going to file and make your comprehensive plan thank you thank you any other questions from the public good evening um Jeff Snider on behalf of the planning board I just wanted to say that uh you know problems also present opportunities and I would just encourage you guys to really think big because this is a really really great chance um I know that you guys take it seriously I know there's not one of you that's that's going to approach flippantly um and just took a straw poll and we we're ready to work any way that we can to help you guys thank you thank you any other questions or comments from the public right thank you uh one thing that I would like to briefly uh get some feedback from us as a commission on is really our approach to going through the comprehensive plan uh what we like to as I've looked through it there's 13 sections um so we could take it a section you know two sections at a time per meeting through December um we could also do sort of a hybrid model where we take it by meetings and then have workshops intermediately between that or we could just do workshops um where of course at the Workshops the public would still have their input on it as well so we can do meeting by meeting and work through it of course we actually get two shots at discussing it because we have our pre-commission meeting to discuss it as well as our commission meeting to discuss it or we could take time to look at uh a few workshops um September October November October November December um to have some workshops to work through it um as as well and then of course I think having some input from our our planning board asking them you know to work through it along with us so whatever plan we have if we do a meeting by meeting plan asking them to bring their suggestions to us and you know the citizens and everyone else as well um but that way we have more input um into the vision of what this looks like moving uh moving forward so so just want some feedback on that yes sir mayor um I know the planning board meets before the commission meeting so actually if they wanted to review it at the same pace and make their suggestions at the planning board as as as they do and then it comes to us so that way they don't have to attend you know yes that's what I'm suggesting like they are tonight which I appreciate guys so yeah I'm suggesting as they meet yeah they discuss it then they bring it to us yeah like they do the other yep yep development orders and such and then they make you know we get that presentation from Miss Amanda or if one of the representatives wants to come and explain something in more detail then they you know give us their feedback on it then we can have that input into what we're doing um as well um I just wanted to let you know that per Florida Statutes one of the roles and responsibilities of the planning board is to they're supposed to look at it and they're supposed to bring stuff to you so they do have a role in it so I think what you're saying is a very good idea yeah awesome um is everybody good for us meeting by meeting chunk out as much as we can um certainly not trying to rush it but but taking a look at it and so um let's bring our packets tomorrow and let's just start talking about some Vision stuff um tomorrow um so we can bring our package tomorrow if it's okay with everyone if we could add to the agenda discussion on comprehensive plan um and then at least start talking about what that Vision looks like do we need do we want to bring zoning back and that'll be something that we can ask staff to look into what does it require for us to bring zoning back from what I've been hearing from us over the past couple of years it sounds like we want to bring zoning back um so that we can sort of have an idea of what can be built where it can be built in certain areas of our city but that's something for us to discuss as well not that we have to have a conclusive answer tomorrow but it'll certainly help staff city manager and others as they're doing their work um if we can provide some good guidance for that so we're not going to get too far ahead of the planning board but I do want to start tomorrow talking about the vision so that we can start working through that and then we'll get into a sequence um and make sure that we're working with the planning board as they're providing their feedback to us um as well everyone okay with that right awesome well hey we'll see you in the morning everyone have a good night meeting adjourn