all right I guess we'll go ahead and get started um we need to go over the CRA first you guys have any questions of C it's just uh discussion Poss approval the L Haven C annual report fiscal re Year you guys any questions on that no no surprises all right so for the pre-commission meeting get the consent agenda which uh has the minutes from a regular and special meeting approval to Temporary close Highway 77 for the annual 2024 4th of July parade between the hours of 7:00 a.m. to 12 p.m. approval to allow the city manager to close all city offices July 5th 2024 and approval to appoint Michelle Basher to the general employee commiss pension board any questions on that P any of those out or anything no all right next one is uh discussion and possible approval to amend the green sou Solutions LLC contract includes sludge cake following at $1,000 per 20 yard rolloff okay I have some questions yeah okay um I noticed on the warrant list that we paid them almost 85,000 this month yes ma' okay so if we go to this cake building devil food cake yeah um how much do we think we're going to save on sludge so the sludge the liquid trucks are about 6,000 gallons which is I think $635 per truck that leaves that truck the one liquid truck is equivalent to like four rofs so you I'm sorry swap that four liquid trucks is equivalent to one row so you condense that that sludge down you get more into the Rob off than you do the liquid which is what we want to get back to yeah cheaper that way it's much cheaper that way and the the $84,000 we were cleaning out that pond um remember I tried to get you in the boat yeah thank you so much okay so we're cleaning that pond out um this is month two of it we should have about month and a half left of about $80 to $100,000 in invoices of cleaning that slge out of that on and then it'll be back to normal cuz the reason we weren't doing that reading the thing that we had to repair something right if you guys recall back in January you approved to send the cuse off it's supposed to be back on the 29th and we'll get that back in service and be a to start what makes the that's what makes the Capac so so it be about what about four months of doing this until we can start doing the cake hopefully the cake we can start doing in April the pond is just liid it can't go it has to be liquid but I mean overall we've been doing this for about four months by the time we're all yeah oh they've been doing that for about 10 years oh been that long yeah been for about 10 years okay how much do you think this will save us um so I think we've been spending about $400,000 a year in sledg Hing um just to show an equivalent the St Andrews and the mville plants in P city which are bigger than ours they spend about $80,000 a year H cake versus what we spend 400,000 okay so what do you do with the lake once you clean it out it just becomes a still a lake no no it's for the reject so if something like say we have a rain event and we're in the day with with sewer we can put reject in that pond and then drain it back into the plant the treeo okay any other questions on that all right next we have discussion on possible approval to W RFQ for professional utility Engineering Services wastewater treatment facilities designed to mount McDonald Florida LLC any questions on that I have a question can only certain engineering uh company apply for this since it deals with waste water as part of the rfu we require them to submit their experience and their past projects um we definitely don't want a firm that specializes only in roadway construction to win the the Wastewater plants so if they were judged on their experience of the Wastewater and what they have done in Wastewater PL okay yeah um one of the things I noticed was the scoring were like really close to each other so not McDonald must really experience in this area m is very good they're speaking of probably one of the best in this area for SE PL okay and the scoring and RF RFQ Lisa did a great job separating and showing you know what we are looking for and what we require so we were able to really score well by the committee so she did a great job of that awesome any other questions thank you discussion of possible approval to change out the lighting and take over the monthly cost for the street lighting and m b Boulevard in front of North Bay Haven Charter School due to safety concerns all right I have a question I got a lot of question is this the one the section that the HOA wanted fancy lights no that that's within fancy lights but there was two two parts of it remember inside of their complex they wanted that okay and then these are near the school where the where the school are the main Boulevard yeah Main Boulevard so now they've decided they don't want fancy lights in front of the school lights for years but they put them up they did the developer put them up and when their contract ran out they just quit paying so Florida power's to the point they're ready to pull them out Bobby how long can't blame have they gone without paying 2020 since 2020 so so here's my question is do we normally how does lighting work on on on regular streets do we normally pay like a rental cost like this yes yes there's a a monthly fee for each light which includes the power and the maintenance okay so this is totally normal because this is yes this is actually a public road it's not owned by the HOA or correct so here's my question the thing I well couple things I was thinking about with this is would it be would it be beneficial for us to get a letter from the HOA saying this is what they want and this is the reason why I'm going with this is if when once we change them I can just foresee residents going what happened to the fancy lights we don't like these lights but they haven't been owned have they have they been owned the fancy light yes Florida Power been carrying the cost they don't even the lights so why didn't Florida Power and Light um just cut them off yeah because saf then why didn't they put a lean or two or whatever you do it started with golf power and when Florida Power took over they just carried the that's about the time that they I think transitioned over was 2020 21 but they're to the point of removing cuz when I don't pay my bill they surely will and it's safy concern for a school I know I know I don't know what do you guys think about that you see what I'm getting at with that because I just see I see residents complaining about it and I'm like okay if we get because originally this all started with the HOA and if we get the go-ahead from the HOA then if if if residents come complain to us like hey we reached out to your HOA they said this is what they wanted and this is what we did and we're making sure that we're not taking over any lighting inside of the complex because normally the city if they were to do something like that they would have an agreement they don't have an agreement and that's kind of where the disagreement was we never had an agreement to take over all their lighting but this is public um right away so that's the only reason we're concerned about that right know but I agree with you yes I think that there probably should be some type of letter we send as documentation that we've done this so you know 10 years from now somebody asked uh why those are um have been changed out they don't look good we can put that and we can even do it by resolution and and Kevin you tell me if if I'm wrong yeah can just for documentation do we pay by like per light basis is that how it works yes yes so every when the developer put them in did they put in by the standard spacing or would it no no they they put it in the line the city doesn't accept correct in the spacing too close so could should we should we consider removing some of them to save us some money that's what this does okay there's 24 and we replacing with 14 brighter lights okay different lights than what they have different lights ones that we more efficient yes Amanda so we a development order under review for phase uh 1D of the uh Shoreline Village um the final part with the houses going in and some of those houses are going to front onto the the bouevard but further on up towards where that new roundabout is going in so my question is um if we change these lights out do those people that live on the road facing the road are they going to have these lights now these lights only go to the bridge only okay so even if it's on the boulevard after the bridge it will be they're still under contract for the rest of it okay that's correct thank you yes and which time they'll probably come to us well a year to do that that was going to be my other question is how's it typically work in subdivisions as far as lighting goes does normally um it belong to the city and we pay the monthly fee or does it normally belong to the HOA both both if if they want to keep it private with a special light they can do that but if they want the city to take them over there's certain lights that we allow and once we take it over we take the lights off but we regulate the spacing and the type of light so how's that work if if it like cuz I know I was coming mil um mil by you it sounds like from my understand next year that their contract's going to expire like you even said it they're going to be coming to us so what's the city position on that should we take them over how does that work have we ran into the situation before no well no one place but was it wood Ro wood wood run was Private blocks they all got destroyed they can't be replaced we told them if they would replace them with the go power lights we approved that we would take but they would have to replace yeah and and City's position is we don't necessarily want to take over lighting fixtures but in this this case it's it's such a public safety issue that once those lights I me G powers threatened to just turn them off um you're talking about in front of the school yeah that I totally agree with okay so you agree with that cuz that's a public I get it and there are a lot of activities at that school at night yes yeah but my position on taking over lighting inside of the neighborhoods um and HOAs is that I don't think the city needs to be responsible for decorative lighting um that was all agreed at the begin yeah that's that's what should happen at the beginning there should be either agreement that the city is not going to do it or an agreement that the city is going to take over them because they followed our guidelines yeah when they originally put the lights up how long was their contract for was five years so at the end of the five years they stopped paying and that was the 20 right so those lights only been up for five years no 10 years yeah so it must have been every five years they it any other questions right thank you uh discussion only of chapter 10 articles one and two of the city code I do have oh go ahead sir thank you I do know we're referring to the school liting which I'm in agreement with but I know there was some alluding to the question about taking over the HOA owned lighting and so at this point are we because we've been in some communication with some of the residents there are we say I know it's not offici because we not voting on it but we say as a city commission that we're at this point not going to entertain take over of the likes within the subdivision I said you think as a city commission I've given you my my opinion for the subdivision yeah I I guess we have to look at what the original because there's a normally agreement when they do the development order right so I guess we need to look at what that agreement is and that agreement says it belongs to them it belongs to them I would think well for this it's just right that one he's talking about the subdivision they're still under contract for years yeah exactly right and there was an ordinance May that was passed and that the uh City commission gave them um permission to put up some decorative lighting but nowhere in that ordinance did it say that the city would be taking them over right so at this point the city's position is first of all you know that's a cost that we would have to incur and um I I don't think we need to start something of taking over lighting within a HOA and then every subdivision that's built will ask for that right but is that written s down somewhere well they'll usually come to us in their either development order or an ordinance passed by the commission whether or not that will happen when there's a development that goes on we have we have technical standards so for certain things we have what we will know what we want and if anybody does anything different from that then they have to be responsible but is in in writing that if they decide to do that and then later on down the line they decide not to do it is it the city's responsibility that we will not take on that responsibility no it hasn't been wood was perfect example you know because they wanted special lights that the city wouldn't do it we still haven't done it we told them if they put in the floor power proov lights and you know do the proper space in the city would m do you have there are two agreements with two subdivisions don't you have two agreements with two subdivisions about the lighting trying to remember wood run right but get the ho go to vot we had then we would have them switched out you know in Space the way we do I mean good thing is we have time to think about it but I would think it it all depends on what that develop development agreement is that what they would call the de development agreement says and we do do agreements for roads whether when we're going to maintain roads or not if they're private roads we do those you sign the plat yeah we we take those over and I see what commissioner bendig Griff is saying um you know usually within HOAs when they start they want the neighborhoods to be very decorative and I get it um and normally the city will probably tell them up front then that that can't happen if that needs to be in writing then we can surely start doing that and I believe wood was actually in the plat their Dedication that they would maintain l okay do you have anything else mayor no sir that is all thank you all right and then uh the discussion only of chapter 10 you guys have anything on that mayor did you want to say anything on that uh yes um first let me say we we're not skipping uh chapter two I have SP k over an ordinance for that and so the plan for that is to um with chapter 2 our public me discussion um is to make an ordinance to simplify the ordinance by saying that we can basically change the rules by resolution that way we don't have to have an official ordinance every time something adapts so we're going to bring the ordinance that will allow us to have a resolution to implement the rules or the uh the guidelines for meetings that might be a better term to use of rules but the guidelines for our for our meetings as well as know how to add things to the agenda and such and so that will be by way of resolution so we are working on the resolution for that um so I don't want even want to think that we're just skipping chapter two and just not doing it uh we will have that at the next meeting um for chapter 10 I didn't want us to stop for momentum so for chapter 10 we're looking at articles one and two and after because there's like several parts of chapter 10 so we're just focusing on articles one and two right now uh but after speaking with the city manager as well um her and staff specifically Ty Ferris have some things that would like for us to sort of be attended to and are just wed to and so at this time you know they can show sort of what they would like for us to focus our attention in addition to whatever stands out to us cor so Ty yeah I I didn't make any recommendations based on the notes that I made here that you guys were provided I think these are areas that need to be we need to bring some clarification to you know for instance I'll just use the feral cat um we get a call from an apartment complex if there are seven feral cats please come out and trap them we trap them then we hear from the neighbors that feed them if you guys are terrorists coming to steal our cats and so it it's we tried to go by the ordinance but yet if somebody feeds a feral cat they're to be responsible for it it's hard to prove who's responsible when seven neighbors are feeding cats and nobody wants to go get them fixed and pay for immunizations um the other item that I think was the largest that we need to probably clarify is when we designate a dog as a vicious dog um as a pet owner as a dog owner my dog will charge towards you know somebody walking past the street with another animal but will stop shy of leaving the AR according to the ordinance that could be considered nuisance and vitious whereas you go to nuisance and it has except for protecting personal property so I think we have a couple of items that are in conflict and we just probably just need bring some clarification to it and I think that when we were going through it that is probably it it's a wording pretty ambiguous um we can't figure out how to interpret it because it could be interpreted two ways and so I think Clarity is is one of the biggest thing things in um article one and I think I sent that all to you with just some suggestions of um things you want to look at and um you know I would have e either Ty Courtney give any other examples of things that they are constantly constantly dealing with um when the these um items happen so um Clarity is is really what's needed so it can be pretty black and white uh because right now it's a lot of it and when I review it I have to look at it from the standpoint of a pet owner that's being cited what loophole can they find to get get past and it happens on a regular basis sure I bet um for instance if you notice the word persistently in there one of our greatest complaints is a barking dog it says persistently or for 30 minutes continuously what is persistent is that every 5 minutes the dog's barking throughout the day well that doesn't fall under the 30 minute Mark but yet persistent isn't clearly defined so I think these are things that we just need to bring a little Clarity to yeah if there's a loop pole someone's going to find somebody's going to find it that's correct so if you'd like I'll go ahead and start crafting what I think we should do and in the next couple of meetings we'll give it to you and awesome youate it we definitely want to hear your feedback first though before we start to put I'll be honest with you I didn't have a chance to look at it but I'll look at it this weekend you guys have anything on that I guess uh my question would be for the mayor um going as now that we're starting to go through these ordinances what is your preferred Way Forward like for example going through this I found like I don't know 15 or 20 different things that are just like little minor things that I think we should change for clarity and things like that would you prefer us to Hash it out at the pre-commission meeting or would you rather me come with a list on say Tuesday with a list of all the items what in your opinion is the best way forward with this I think the pre-commission meeting you know um so for example you can go ahead and look for through chapter 10 um and just that time to pre commmission meeting will'll highlight just want to discuss articles one and two um now it doesn't mean that we can't go back and look at something like we've done before uh but I think pre-commission meeting is a good time for us to just have an open form and discussion about it um and sort of hash it out there I know in the past like commissioner War has given us like a a highlighted list of things that he would like to CH and then we just sort of all look at those changes and if we about consensus you know just agree to it because we're not voting on it at this point until we get to chapter so yeah if you're um if you're able to bring something that's great you know if you're able to do it by a pre-commission I think that' be a great discussion if not I'm certainly bring it on Tuesday or S you know yeah bring it on Tuesday or send the city manager and then she'll AFF it to everyone um okay perfect for said yeah that I think that's excellent because that way we can um yeah good idea so mayor do you also want us to kind of handle it um in terms of discussion like we did with the impc MPC uh booklet where Cecilia kind of took the notes made all of those changes and then sent it back out to everyone do you want us to handle it in that same way yes I like that that's that's the idea I have in mind okay all right all right anything else on that so I guess I have some stuff but I'll just uh to make things easier for everybody I'll just make a list send it to you okay and then that way on Tuesday we can talk about it okay because uh rather than sitting here and going through in this and this this way you know all of us can you know have the list provided um I think it's there's there's minor things like for example minor thing would be when we're describing what foul is then in the description we say foul well you can't use a word to describe you can't use the same word to describe the word you know what I'm saying or like things like um what was or like there's like a specific ordinance on how to handle squirrels um talks about not and snaring them well uh there is a Humane like like Tai was saying like if coming from the the owner the property owner if I have a a squirrel that's like gnawing away at my plants or whatever I feel like it should be okay for me as long as I'm doing it in a humane way to ens snare the thing so that when animal control comes they can take care of it you know just little things like that and I think um there's some other things like uh we should be more specific on a list of what certain types of animals are like Kai was saying if there's a loophole people are going to find it so if we have a list of what livestock is I think we should have an actual list of what defines livestock there's like it says like you know cows mules Etc well what is that Etc let's just go ahead and put it out there um and just things like that okay y all right anything else right you guys got anything addition additional No I um spoke to Kevin after the last board meeting about how other commissions or the school board approves the agenda you know for additions or deletions M and um I just wanted to know what y'all thought about it I looked into in fact I was going to bring it up but I since the mayor brought it up that we're going to talk about the next meeting I didn't say anything but um I looked around other municipalities and and I even talked to some of the Commissioners and I talked to a city clerk and typically they just say this is what I want to added to the agenda and they add it now one thing I did notice is if you look at Panama City the way they do it they have to approve they when they have their actual commission meeting they approve the agenda um so they go and they say Do Is there any additions deletions or modifications so anything from my understand anything that uh wants to be added can be added to the agenda but it can be removed with a vote of three Commissioners and so I like that idea yeah to like it's basically like after the invocation The Pledge mayor will say you know other any additions or deletions to the agenda and if you know if people want to pull something that's that's you have like you said you have a vote on it if they want to to add item 10 and you vote on it so that yeah normally it's a good thing to sort of call out the question and maybe put a line on the top of the agenda after the invocation pledge to see if there's any additions or deletions yeah but both additions and deletions have to be voted on and modifications and modifications yeah because there might be a time where we um don't want to vote on item because we need more information or something like that so it's as important on deletions as it is on adding okay what's what's going to change on the agenda between the pre meeting and the meeting add in the agenda item or agreen on the agenda that yeah that would have to be added like toward the beginning of the meeting I would but I mean what's going what's the difference between setting the agenda at the pre-commission meeting versus you know it's it's three days difference I mean we should be able to hammer out the agenda at a pre-commission meeting good well I mean but do you I know we had this discussion before is do we want to vote on things at the pre-commission meeting here was here was what I was going that that I was talking to Kevin about is I to sort of formalize the process that we do now uh and I think that's that's part of the the issu that our process isn't formalized um and that is um city manager and chairman was sort of develop the basic agenda and then you come to pre-commission um by consensus like hey is everybody okay with the agenda okay everybody's fine with they move forward with it at that point if someone wanted to suggest adding or deleting something because we've done that before um um when we say hey can we add to the agenda or delete something from the agenda we can do it at pre commission um and then if we want to formalize a vote or ask something additional um then we can you know put that as an agenda item or as Point number three before public commentary um on the agenda as well because that's Robert Ro borders that you can't do that um as uh number three I think after invitation before public commentary make it number three to formally adopt the agenda that typically by consensus we just look at our agenda and say okay yeah we like it or don't like it or add Rel something so it hasn't been a formal process I think that's the issue um is that we haven't formalized paper like this is what the agenda adoption process is um now I think the only one that I and I haven't looked at all of them but I know like the county has a public statement about how their ging agenda process goes um so that was sort of a thought was precission could be a time for discussion look at the agenda uh that's presented to us if we want to add something at that point we mention it and if there's a consensus by the commission then we pay us our agenda moving forward and if there's something T that can't BR into the next commission meeting then we can't add you know at the beginning of the next meeting so I think that's a good idea because if it's discussed at the the pre-commission meeting and we might need additional information that would give us the uh City time to get us the additional information before we voted on it that was really part of the whole reason doing pre-commission meeting was should be able to agree on an agenda at the pre-commission meeting yeah you know what I mean but but I can see have an a formal thing if you're going to surprise anybody with an agenda item at the meeting but or or in the between that short time between pre-commission and meeting but let's try to let's try to all agree on the agenda at our pre-commission meetings and then go from there I mean there should be a formal process I agree but I think there what worth smoke if we can't agree on an agenda to precission there are there has been times in the past where it's not necessarily like whether we want the item to be on the agenda or not but more so like I don't know let's use storm water or something where there's a ton numbers and research that goes into it it might be on the agenda and we all have a consensus that yeah this is important to talk about but it might come that additional information yeah like we we get the agenda on Thursday we only have Thursday night until Friday and then there might be like I want to run some math on this and then by the time it comes Tuesday it might be like we just we're not ready we're not ready let's just push it to the the following meeting not so much get rid of it period period we should be able to understand that and have cognizance of it at the pre Bamboozled by the numbers or you say hey this is a lot to take in we should be talking about it at the pre commission meeting I just think we should stress to agree on the agenda at the pre-commission meeting I'm all for any formal thing that you want to come up with you know about a vote on on a commission item or or agenda item you know at at a certain point during the meeting I'm all for it but I'm just imploring to us as a commission let's let's you know let's try to work our our stuff out at the pre-commission meeting you know what I mean as far as an agenda goes yeah I agree with commissioner perno as well and I think to to Sam's Point I know in the past something like that has happened we have t it so instead of you know you know moving forward approval um we have voted to table it until the next meeting um or you know we try to on those issues try to stay on top of them so we're not backed up against a deadline so we do talk to city manager and staff to you know just ensure that put us up against a deadline where hey we got to approve this or if not then we want to miss a certain day amount and get penalties or miss something with the Bay County uh test collector's office or appraisal um there have been c times we have Ted something um if we were in a discussion on it you just didn't feel comfortable making a specific decision because of the different numbers and variables um or because the public has outcry about it you know doing commission meeting just wanted more discussion on it so I commission I know we've had to table stuff and and re advertise I don't know it seems like it happens pretty rare now I think the pre-commission meetings helped a lot with that sure than do I guess in regards to the the resolution regarding the agenda uh adding things to the agenda is there a consensus for everyone to say that we will uh basically agree on the agenda dur pre commission meeting I'm okay with that as long as it's legal I think it is no on it but having this discussion you you're getting consens but but if you have a disagreement you're still have to vot something on the agenda then you know again at the actual meeting we can you make a motion to remove this item or make a motion to add an item beginning what would happen if someone disagreed that's F that's I'm trying to find out is if there was a disagreement it would go to the process consens I if it's 4 to one consensus if it's 32 has more majority so so we would have so if you didn't have consensus then you'd have to vote on it then right you have to to me I would I would say you know wait till Tuesday okay I see okay all right anything else on that nothing for me nothing you have anything else additional you want to bring up I just want to give props for all the notes the other night did excellent um the comprehensive plan when uh when we plan on going over that I think the on the mayor's what I think he wanted to bring in Dr Chapman first and um I know that they're at the end end of their semester so would be helpful for him um after spring break if he could which is I think spring break I don't know when FSU spring break it may have already gone um so I can reach back out to him again and see if we can do that fairly quickly like to get back on that because I feel like we're behind on it we've been talking about it for a while true so twin the deadline W of next year I work better with the deadline yeah yeah me too we can set our know deadline I think once we talk with Dr chap give us an idea of the breath of what we're looking through along with Amanda you know the breath of what we're having to look at um to plan andc those are two separate right you know separate you know so um you know the state doesn't necess have you know we don't have a deadine person but we can our own P able have this G round that time so I think once we talk to Dr Chapman and follow back up with Amanda then we'll be able to lay out how we want to approach the plan and going through the comprehensive planc because to us I would encourage everyone to that you can already highlight is you want to you know change or or that you might have questions about and then once we get with Dr CH you know what's what's uh you know what's necessary what should be our focus and some of those things that we might highlight you know maybe in consequential at the time so I think you know that's one of the things that we can do now it won't be necessarily idle time is go ahead and work through that and I suggest that with you know like the chapter 10 ordinance um or work chapter 10 that we're going through those chapters that way when we come to precognition meeting we can bring uh our list with us uh that way we can have at pre commission meeting and then what we did the is that we had shot at pre commission meeting and then at commission meeting was basically just a summary of what we had done or discussed for change dur the pre commmission meeting so you know moving forward we can do that as well on chapter 10 and all other chapters also so mayor would it be helpful also kind of like we were just talking about for um article one I know we've given everybody the comp plan but um if we went through and just highlighted some things that specifically you could go on and start looking at now would that be helpful I think that will be very helpful have ID time have a little F forward once we um have that meting the chat so that be great okay all right you guys have anything else no I'll talk to you later do you have anything else mayor no sir that is all thank you all right meeting of J