##VIDEO ID:_WkgSH_eiyU## e e e e e e had a happy New Year thus far calling our meeting to order at 9:02 a.m. we'll have the invocation by Pastor Moscato from United with Christ Church followed by the Pledge of Allegiance father we thank you for your grace upon this year 2025 we thank you for the wisdom that is in this room and we ask for your help your guidance your counsel and father for your peace that we might be better together than we were last year in jesus' name I pray amen Ryan SC good morning commission um at one of the previous meetings that came to light that the uh in January 20124 the HR Director committed what I believe is a sunshine violation I had communicated this all with you guys and I conducted a public records request that public records request indicated that the HR Director said in regard to a special payment made to the city manager for holiday pay that she received four responses confirming you guys allowing that the public records request returned only three results um and mayor you had responded in an email and you said according to our attorney we have to make sure this is in quotes make sure this item comes back to the Commission in January to finish the conversation started on this matter at our last meeting if there was a sunshine VI law violation that full and open discussion paired with an independent final action all in the sunshine is a proper remedy here I would ask all five of you to consider is the consent agenda the definition of full and open discussion paired with an independent final action it is not so I would ask that you pull this item from the consent agenda and discuss it full and open here in the public public so you guys can reach whatever remedy you need to on that item additionally in regard to Sunshine violations the fact that this arose and it originated with a department head concerns me if our department heads have adequate training to avoid potential Sunshine violations so I would also ask that you guys review what training they get and if they're all aware of what constitutes a sunshine violation so that way they could avoid putting the commission in a position that none of you should want to be in additionally I would also ask that each of you during your reports make mention to this situation and share your thoughts on it because I'm sure when you responded to that email you were not thinking you were creating a sunshine violation in your response I would expect based on discussions with each of you that you would want to share with us your perspectives on that matter so that's all I have thank you thank thank you George H run sharp with Arc of the bay good morning morning uh first I want to say thank you guys that we're able to make it to our groundbreaking uh Friday greatly appreciate your attendance uh and also uh with all the support within the city systems Amanda has always been there whenever I needed her uh along with the rest of your uh staff uh this morning hopefully I'm coming with good news to share with you and just ask you to help uh Advocate and share with your employees and also the rest of the citizens that live here in lyh Haven uh the Ark of the bay is partnering for our third year with the AARP uh tax Aid foundation and uh we are going to be in our Sally sty community room on Wednesdays from 2: to 7: um and all of our tax preparers are offering this service we're offering it at no charge they're all uh certified IRS certified so they're trained uh professionals doing free tax returns and why are we doing it because we love where we where we live we love where we work we love the city of linh Haven uh and we're just trying to make sure that we're making sure that people don't get taken advantage of uh let me give you some numbers last year that you'll be be very I know proud of uh we were able to provide over 184 tax returns last year providing over $64,500 85 and here's something what I'm really really excited about working with a ARP the average savings that we're able to provide working with them was uh $46,000 the average return simple returns probably about $250 and when you equate the number of returns 184 that's a lot of money and again it's putting the money back into the people they're working um and uh just really doing the right thing so what we're here today for is if you would help maybe get it in your newsletter let your employees know that hey you know what swing by Wednesday from 2: to 7:00 uh We Do It free and also the uh the citizens that live in Lin Haven so thank you appreciate what you do thank you Mr Larry white all right thank you all for that service that you're providing for our community Mr Rich Walker good morning Rich Walker 1106 Michigan Avenue you're embarking on a new year in seven days maybe eight days maybe never you're going to get a new president he's embarking on a new year a new era you have a lot to look forward to as Commissioners my view here over the last here I can only see one and a half Commissioners that represent people you're not districted for the reasons of districting you're districted to give you a numerical situation on that panel districting allows you to represent a certain amount of people in a certain area you're not there you're given a number that's how you sit in order here therefore each commissioner cannot represent a certain amount of people in a certain area you have to be ad Haw ad General you represent all of us I have only seen one and a half Commissioners represent this city I say it again I only see one and a half each time that one and a half has been very heavily critical situations given to them from the rest of you I hope this coming year you have to look at Charter comprehensive plan the budget very critically to keep you and this city going for the next year you've got a lot ahead of you you can't kick the bucket down the road anymore you've got to address them you can't table things you've got to address it I wish you luck but believe me like I've said to the church God above is watching us we're watching you now going to make you accountable going to have to look at it believe me I'm going to be watching you thank you thank you Miss Michelle Basher Michelle Bashers 811 Louisiana Avenue I um am going to speak about the um planning board meeting from Tuesday I know this item is not on the agenda but um I attended that meeting and can I just say there was a crowd um this meeting though was quite quite D different than similar ones I've attended in the past the neighbors to the north were rightly upset but they were respectful they presented their opinions and factual data it was actual data and were very very convincing the bottom line is they do not want the rental townhouse development in their single family residential neighborhood and it should not be allowed even if it is on property that is owned for such development the good news is they brought the the homeowners association attorney and he has already made a filing with the court I hope as this is sorted out that these homeowners will prevail and the concerns for their investment their quiet peaceful lifestyle and for the environment will outweigh another developer who doesn't care about the neighbors and the disruption it will inevitably cause because as we all know home ownership usually brings pride and a different lifestyle that is more invested in the neighborhood than rental property ever will thank you thank you is there additional public commentary I thank you for your comments um following up with some of those comments uh Mr scay mentioned uh pulling the item of ratification from the consent agenda as it relates to a possible Sunshine violation um our attorney could you give us a little more clarification on uh the potential of that possibly being a sunshine violation and if leaving this on the consent agenda would remedy whatever issues we might be having so well I'm not sure there is a Sunshine Law violation here by the commission there is certainly a perception of one that you have the ability to address by having a full and open conversation um you did did discuss this issue on Friday I'll leave it to you to determine whether or not you each of you felt like you got to say your piece about this particular issue not just its placement on the agenda um the consent agenda generally is not a place for the discussion of items so if you feel like you didn't get to say your piece pulling it to the regular agenda is procedurally appropriate to do this is because this the item is a ratification of a decision you have already made that itself makes it appropriate to go on the consent agenda it's the fact that there's a perception of the Sunshine Law violation here that changes the the analysis slightly I'll leave it to you whether you want to have further discussion about your thoughts when you voted yes um to approve that overtime payment right thank you um also someone said something about having some Vision issues cuz they can only see one and a half Commissioners representing the citizens I would certainly encourage you to get your optometrist appointment for 2025 uh as I believe all five of our commissioners including myself represent the citizens of Lin Haven um so I don't think there's one one and a half two or three that represent our citizens I think all of us um represent our citizens here um in Lin Haven and thank you Miss Basher for giving us uh that Insight in regards to the community response though we see it on paper um and we see you know some of the comments that are made whenever we read those reports we don't always get the opportunity to actually see it you know in person or to really get an idea of the uh the temperature in the room um as it relates to those issues so thank you uh for sharing that um in regards to my uh report want to uh guess some of Will overlap from last year and a little bit from this year so uh City met with the city manager uh a few times before we had the end of the year to make sure that we could end well and and begin a new great year so had a few meetings with her to discuss um some things that um we had some concern about as a as a commission and questions we we've gotten from some of our citizens and so she's been following up with that um in regards to staff some of that was uh questions about our our building here um our city hall and the cost of that and so her and I discussed that for probably about an hour or so um to try to get some more uh information and insight as to how we can make sure that we um answer the questions and provide the information um that is needed and talk with her about that most recently so I know she has some uh some plans to follow with us individually as Commissioners to talk with us um about that as they're still pulling that information together um we're also planning um if needed to have a workshop public Workshop um to discuss uh the cost for the building so that it can be um out in the open uh so everyone will know you know what the building will cost so uh commissioner per I know you made some mention of things on Friday and so uh immediately um after that meeting I met with the city manager and um also spoke with CJ and so I know they're already beginning to work on um discovering those uh those details of what you mentioned in regards to the decisions and things that were made so um that is something that's on our urgent list to try to make sure that we can gather that information to uh to handle that um so after that we um also had a chance to uh have be on a brief call with the city manager and and Bob Micah the county manager um in regards to the expansion of our sewer plant to moving that out into the County area and so just discussing with him about the cost of things uh for those studies and so city manager um discussed with him about giving us an estimate of what that would cost as we're also putting that as one of our um legislative items that we would like to receive funding for also had a meeting um with a new nonprofit in the community that's hoping to develop uh a community housing program um it would be a transition house but it would sort of be a One-Stop shop transition house um for those getting out of the state prison here um MCT State Prison and so they're uh just asked about some different thoughts and ideas on on that community housing program so thought it was a good idea we certainly um need to be of service to our entire community in Bay County um as much as possible um also talked with uh some new businesses and think I forwarded that information to Ben janky about some incentives um they were looking for in Lin Haven and so thank you Ben for following up with them um to uh to discuss some some incentives that we could possibly um have here um although it is not u a business in Lin Haven uh city manager and I were invited and intended the uh the grand opening for Myers electric um they're in Panama City um they though they're not a business in Lin Haven they service um our area as well and so it was nice to go by and and see uh different leaders and uh business uh owners from different areas and also to congratulate them they've done a great job of renovating um their building there um on 18th Street also um had a phone consultation with our legislative consultant in preparation for uh the delegation meeting as well as our upcoming um session that will begin in March and so gave us some uh gave me some different insights on things that we can be preparing for in different ways that we can try to make sure that we're ready to have the best representation during that time um also uh had a meeting with the city manager our legislative consultant and uh representative Griff Griffiths and we were able to um prior to the Del delegation meeting also give a little more explanation as to our uh requests for this year for the session and so um he gave us a a very favorable um uh response as to how he would like to support um those initiatives especially one being the moving of the um Waste Water Treatment Plant to the county and collaborating with them so um he was great on that idea hopefully he uh will be able to get us a matching fund for um for our road request so we're hoping to do that as well and then we even threw in a couple of extras to see if there might be some legislative funding for that or at least some grants that um him or our legislative consultant could appoint Us in the direction to and one was that for was for a new pumper truck and also I think it was something for the football fields I think is what we um or Sports Fields uh uh new softball field and so um we talked with him about that as well so so I'm working to make sure that we can you know get as much monies as we can without being a burden on our taxpayers to provide for the things that we need here um in the city of Lin Haven and so again great discussion with him one of the things that he did mention um last year some of you know that he was uh one of the U advocates for the uh uh BN Airbnb um legisl legislation or the vacation rental uh legislation he was the one that uh represented that from the house of representativ side and so did have a good discussion with him about that um they did say it was too late for us to have a local ordinance um however or a local ordinance that would be um going to the State House however he did say that um we could look at the possibility of creating just our own ordinance here um in the city um and just make sure that we follow the guidelines and that it can't be more strenuous um um than the other than the guidelines that other vacation rental um s ordinances have done within other cities so um talking with him he was able to give me a little more explanation as to um that law that says you can't uh Implement something prior to 2011 his interpretation of it was that it can't be more strenuous than what was prior to if you didn't have anything on the books prior to 2011 so the way he explained it was that if there was a city for example Panama City Beach you had something on the books that they could maybe make a little more constraint in their adaptation of their ordinance but if we're a city that's implementing a new ordinance that it couldn't be more strenuous um on those uh vacation rentals and I just share with him we just would like a registration so that we can follow up with the owners and talk with them so um we felt very empowered and exciting city manager and I did when we left that meeting and so um I do plan on uh following up with her um as well as uh staff and she's going to coordinate that for us in the next few weeks or so um as well as with our City attorney to look at a possible ordinance that we could bring back to the commission um in regards to Vacation Rental so um we didn't get it the first year or the second year or the third year but hopefully we have a remedy um for our citizens this year um that we can actually do um so maybe home rule does rule this time um and so we'll see uh see how that goes thank you to all the commission that um were able to attend the delegation meeting um I know that was a little a little awkward time usually it was close to Christmas usually it's a little earlier um in December I think but thank you to all that that that were there to able to represent and I think it's it always looks great for our city to be there representing on behalf of our citizens and so um and so we're able to again advocate for you publicly the things that we want and uh again seeming to get um support from our state representative and our our state senator um also followed up with the um our HR director and assistant city manager Miss hajes in regards to um the city manager annual evaluation so we received um our evaluation um questionnaires prior to Christmas and I think one or two of us are still working to complete those um and so we'll um hope to uh make a report of that um before February hopefully I'm also had a chance with other Commissioners to go to the grand opening for the uh new Ark of the bay housing facility I'm really looking forward to where they're going to continue to serve our community in that way and on Friday had a a a a great time here in our commission Chambers with our former mayor Walter Kelly um as we had the unveiling of the naming for the commission chamber um here to the Walter T Kelly commission chamber so all of us as Commissioners were able to be at that and I think that was an exciting time to have older Commissioners old retired employees just a great f time here and he was so excited right he he was so excited it was great we're able to do something for him while he could still enjoy it um and you know his his children and his grandchildren were here to see um the Legacy that it left if I'm not mistaken he's been the longest commissioner mayor um in position um to serve the city of ly Haven so thank him for his selfless service because they definitely weren't getting paid back then um we're not getting paid a lot now um it's enough to cover my lunch expenses so uh but you know thank him for his selfless service and the time he gave that we're truly able to continue to grow and build upon his shoulders although we as a commission get a lot of credit for the great things that are happening in Lin Haven now um it's because there were people before us that did a great job and put us on the right path that we can enjoy many of the successes that we have now especially being one of the top 10 cities in the state of Florida one of the top 10 safest cities in the state of Florida so um thank you to those leaders that preceded us in our apartments and our commission to set the pathway for us so trying to give you a m a detailed report there miss Basher there's a lot of things I didn't cover um like all the emails and stuff I responded to but hopefully you see that I've been working you know during my Christmas break all right um that is my report thank you mayor happy New Year everybody I hope you had a great holiday season I surely did um just wanted to uh remind those that didn't know I'll have a coffee meetup on the 25th at so at 8: a.m. if you want to come meet up with me and talk about whatever you want to talk about I'd love to talk to you um as the mayor said the the chamber dedication to former mayor Kelly was fantastic it was great to see um not only current people here supporting him but those in the past that had served with him and heard some great stories from former Commissioners um that that served along with them and and it was really a fantastic time uh I talked to multiple people over the past few weeks um for ideas for the upcoming year it's it's a good time to take a step back and really just uh think about things that we can work on in the upcoming years so um just for an example I got an idea from someone to um potentially add non-binding questions non-binding questions to the ballot um if you want to know more about that I'd love to talk about it um it's just something um an idea that might work um so if anybody has any new ideas for the upcoming year that maybe we haven't talked about or you want to talk to us or me about please reach out to me um I'm I'm very receptive to to new ideas or or modifications of ideas we've already had um and I've been trying to do a good job of researching uh different events that are going around the city not just here at the city but as far as the government entity but as well as local businesses and things like that to try to spread the word so if you have any businesses or any events that you have going on let me know and I'll help spread the news um it doesn't have to be anything crazy or big if you just want me to help you get the word out about something that's happening just let me know help spread it um another thing that I've spent a lot of time doing is trying to research what other cities um and municipalities have done with in terms of like accessory structures and RVs cuz that's things that we've been talking about recently and it really isn't interesting to see how there isn't really a standard across the board but uh we're hopefully we'll do our best in figuring out what's best um for for our city and I just want to thank Miss Bashers for the the update on the Planning Commission it's fantastic um I love like the mayor said being able to hear it in person helps me a lot so now I know I can come to you and ask you questions if I have them but uh um and then finally I kind of I want to address what uh Ryan scay talked about um so this happened about a year ago and uh you know as some most of us know um when you come new into something it's like drinking from a water hose so you know I just assumed that we were just answering an email um that was standard operating procedures and and I was new and uh and you know if that wasn't the right thing we're going to try to ratify it today um it was brought to light so I I can assure you that there was nothing malicious going on or anything like that it was just simply um what we thought or at least what I can't speak for other people but I for me I just thought it was standard operating procedures and we were following them um if that's not the case um then it's a learning experience for everyone involved me everybody else and we'll talk about it today as far as pulling it from the agenda uh and it was of my opinion that we have public commentary so you can bring it up there we have our commissioners reports to talk about it and we talked about it on Friday so we did cover our bases there but if if it's of the commission wants to pull the item due to what the attorney said I mean I'm not going to say no to that either I just want to be in the in the um Spirit of transparency I'm happy to talk about it like I said there's nothing to hide so if anyone wants to talk about it we can talk about it it's fine whatever anyone everyone wants to do I just wanted to assure everyone that there was no malicious intent and we're just trying to in the spirit of transparency bring it up and talk about it and so um like I said again if you have any questions about it talk to me uh I really have only had maybe two or three people talk to me about it but if there's more people that want to talk to me about it sure I'll talk to you about it got nothing to hide we we're just I just thought it was standard operating procedures that's it but anyways um it's up to everybody but I just that's what I had to say about that and uh that's my report thank you commissioner perno thank you mayor um appreciate um your both reports to hear and to go right off of what you just said um commissioner peoples um you know I talked to Ryan scay on on the phone and want responded to his emails H I know I did not respond to the email but I was they people thought I did or whatever but you know I think it's better that we just pull it from the agenda the consent agenda and talk about it you know for the sake so I'll make a motion right now that we pull that from the consent agenda and talk about it as a separate item all right there is a motion to pull number 11 from the consent agenda to make it old business uh as part of our regular business meeting is there a second for that it it doesn't require a second or a vote to pull from the consent agenda any of us can single-handedly remove it from the we have we can do that but we haven't reached the consent agenda to do that so I we know the rules but he's making a motion and so we haven't made it to the consent agenda for me to ask for that to be done okay I second it all right there's a motion and second uh any comments from the public no comments from the public C the manager if you call the vote commissioner perno yes commissioner W yes commissioner venar yes commissioner Peebles yes mayor Nelson yes motion pass okay and continuing on um I'm sorry I put the cart before the horse I didn't understand that we yeah I was going to ask about it when to the I apologize for that but I just figure that's the best thing to do um hearing his sentiments I'm s here I sit closest to the lawyer so you know I just figure that's the best thing to do today um um for that item for that item um and uh just just to um just to go uh go on and I just want to get the credit out there where it needs to be on this on the uh on the our efforts to uh to to move our water treatment plant from from where it is to do the co-op with the county um that you know I I put I talked to city manager about it before um before I was in her office a after our first meeting and said hey we need to we need to do this but everything stemmed from a text message I got from Jessica Graham with the St Andrews Bay St Joe Bay EST program you know and I don't want any credit for spearheading this but those are the folks that that know you know are environment really well and I know we're going to get endorsement from them but uh but the I just want to you know give complete credit and validity to the to the Estuary program um considering that it's it's coming to be at this time it's about three years in and and you know these things don't just come out and become what they are overnight and I've been involved with it and I'm happy to say I've been involved with it since the very beginning since the forming of program and before they even selected Jessica as as as the commissioner of the of the program on to uh to bring her to to to what she's been working on and Ryan Rossy the scientist I mean I got to give these people a lot of credit for what they've done to to you know to save our bays and and uh and bring light to our Watershed and what we need to do to protect it so with that being said I I know that I got got an email with their newsletter and I'm a little late to the game it wise I would have asked that um I'm going to ask that I add their newsletter to my report and get with our it people so so I can do that and so it'll be part of the minutes so everyone um Can publicly view their um their newsletter that they're putting out and then you could join uh join the EST program that way and get get updated on all their information um that being that being said um I I know I brought up some questions on Friday and I know uh I know we're going to be getting answers to them um I I'm I I've never started a new year with more peculiar thoughts and questions you know to what we're to what we're going forward to do and I know I know that we're going to as a commission do the best things for the city of Lin Haven um with that being said I'd like to thank all of all of our First Responders and and all of our city employees and I'd like to genuinely throw my heart out there for all the people in in the west coast that are experiencing what they're experiencing right now I know there's a lot of high profile people and you're seeing it on the news and whatnot but if you watch that football game last night the Los Angeles Rams I think they were playing a little above above their heads to throw it back for the people in their in their town to be displaced and play that game and how they showed things it just just brought about a a different feel kind of the feeling we had around here when we were going through hurricane Michael so my heart's going out to those people and that's all I want to say and that's my report thanks thank you commissioner perno commissioner Ward uh yes so uh I know the mayor already talked about this the legislative delegate meeting I I was able to attend that um I think it's pretty beneficial that when we uh we go and we we show um our state reps that this is how much we care about our community I I believe if I'm not mistaken since we've been doing this I don't think I've ever seen any other city do that so um I think it uh sends a strong message and a presence uh to the State Rep so uh thank you uh for you doing that um I did attend the Ark of the bay that was an awesome event um one of the things I learned Learned was um the land that they developed that on was actually donated by the church I think it's harvest worship church that's in front of it and it wasn't no Lin Haven Methodist Church I'm sorry Lin Haven Methodist Church my apologies um but I thought that was pretty awesome that they donated that land to them and and there's a lot of other um people that donated money and volunteered to make sure that happened and we were able to walk in the facility and it's a really nice facility and you know it's our of the bay is kind of a um has a special place in my heart cuz they actually helped one of my daughters um when she graduated from school to find a job and they have some awesome programs to to help people so um Mr Sharp does an awesome job with that organization that thing has grown quite a bit um and then I was able to attend the uh the um the ceremonial mayor Kelly Kelly naming the the city Chambers I was actually able to sit down with him I think it was about a week prior to that and uh gosh we talked for probably about 2 and a half three hours and uh it was great to pick his brain learn some history of ly Haven um you know we have a couple things in common one um he joined the best United States uh military branch the Air Force um and uh he's very passionate about home Ru and and so am I um and uh you know he gave me some very good advice and and mentorship um one of the things he told me was keep uh keep fighting the tough issues um it can be very uncomfortable but you need to do the right thing so that meant a lot to me um 25 January after you go to a commissioner pe's coffee event you can come to Slim Chickens at 11:30 if you like to sit down and talk with me and if you can't make that obviously you can always call me at 850 3911 1217 be more more than happy to sit down and talk with you talk with you on the phone email me or whatever um I did get um a phone call about the development order that Miss Basher brought up um I would like to talk to the residents but here's the thing that we have to remember is I think and of course this is where we'll rely on the City attorney I think we're very limited on what we can do because if it matches a lan use code uh I don't know and as long as they're abiden by all local uh state and federal regulations I don't know if there's really a whole lot we can do legally but we will definitely uh see everything that we can do so and with that that's all I have oh I know it always commissioner pees always beats us me to this and I don't probably don't say enough but I appreciate everything that the employees do the First Responders and and dispatchers thank you than you all right thank you commissioner Vander Griff I think we left enough for you not much uh I also attended the delegate meeting with the uh senators and the House of Representatives um Mr uh war is correct it's a shame uh that not all municipalities are represented at this meeting to you know show the support for these individuals uh but Lin Haven is always there and um I think it it shows uh that we really care about uh what we're asking for from these individuals um the Ark of the bay we're very fortunate to have that program in L Haven you know Bo they they teach the kids are un adults with disabilities or challenges um such things as such skills as culinary arts and employment skills and now they have the residential uh building which is the one what we attended the grand opening and uh it was actually named after Mr fch and uh for his uh continued support of the program um Mr Kelly is a unique individual he um he like Mr War said he's was in the military I don't know if that's the best branch but it's a pretty good Branch uh for almost 25 years and he also served as Callaway's chief of police I didn't know that and uh he was on the commission prior to deciding to run from Air so he was was elected for mayor in 1998 and served till 2015 so he's a very good example of sharing your gifts and your talents with the city that you love um I am going to address um the one and a half Commissioners representing our city um I adamantly disagree with the statement when I make decisions for the city I do not have a hidden agenda I do not make a decision based on dislike or Grudge that I have against someone and I don't try to be narrow-minded I try to make a decision based on what I think the 20,000 people would benefit from you know the Bible says that you're judged on your good works I do not do this job because of the pay I do it because I am fulfilling one of those requirements good works for this city that's all Mr Mayor thank you uh before moving on to the city manager's report one thing I did forget uh to mention is that there are several linh Haven citizens that are part of the um Ark of the bay program that have made a special request of our sanitation department if we could bring by our new garbage trucks and trash trucks like on a Wednesday so they could see them and so that has been a special request from from s Haven citizens that are part of the Ark of the bay program um and they have asked me even as of yesterday if I have made mention of this to to to you about that so if you all would follow up on that and Wednesday are the days that they attend the program so that's why they're asking if it could possibly be on the on a Wednesday but they they do ask about that I'm sure they would love to see the the fire trucks come by as well on a on a maybe on a Wednesday cuz they ask me are we get new fire trucks you know so they're they they're keeping up with our uh with our truck stuff so Chris you may have a consultant cuz they come to me and they bring uh prices and they ask me is this too much or do you think this is a good price so you know if you need some Consulting on you know getting good prices for buying new equipment you and Bobby I have some some citizens that would be you know willing to help you with that as well all right thank you city manager thank you mayor um thank you all for attending um mayor Kelly's dedication was really nice uh staff did a really great job we pulled together and and really really put on something special for him because that's what he deserves and um just a great man within our city um some of the things of course you've already heard um that I am and was a part of um but a couple of things we are work working on after um we uh presented our list of things to the delegation there comes the paperwork and the form and getting all of that in so that we can request those things and it is a lot of work and we've been working on that several of us have been working on um the Senate and House forms for the legislative appropriation and um along with our lobbyists who will look at those and make sure we have the right information then it comes back uh to me to look at again staff to look at and attestation um but we are submitting Paving projects for a million dollar in a a match matching that a million dollars we're asking for the funding for the Fe feasibility rate study on the wastewater treatment plant that is a million doar and then we're asking for the pumper truck um which is $988 and there are surely um some ways that may happen uh we're we're surely hoping that and so all of those um requests have to be in by a certain date and we're trying to start early just in case we need additional information that we can um get those in uh with some solid information we'll be meeting with the county next week on the feasibility study and um talking about you know what Avenues we go down and I know that the county had you approached this many years ago uh with the former city manager a while back and and now it's kind of come back around to fruition and this may be the you the best time to really look at um you know where our Wastewater Plant will be in the future and we we hope good things will happen there um for the wastewater treatment plant uh so just to give you some numbers our first responder calls have increased by 7% since 2023 our station W by 3 and a half % and station two by 14.8% um so it's really busy uh Chief um Johnson and is doing a remarkable job as is um the police department which we will um go down and um in February uh for the re accreditation uh before the commission uh which is always pretty exciting um to be recognized as one of the best um police departments in uh the State of Florida with all of uh the really excellent and Superior things that they do um you'll probably see after this cold spell leaves us don't know when um but uh we anticipate there'll probably be some really some trees that will probably free have Frozen and uh will be dead we'll probably have to replace those so you see that happening within our parts that's what's happening there uh we did have uh a citizen talk about uh the sign uh in off of Bailey bridge that um had some problems with the lighting and we do have a 5-year warranty on that and um the the replacement parts have been submitted and we'll get that taken care of us as well a few people had to ask why the gym was closed during the Christmas New Year break so the gym is closed during the times that the city is closed because there's no one there of course to manage it but that's also a good time that we go in and this has to be done just to keep all of the um the floors um uh refinish and then assur that we're taking care of what God has blessed us with it so we had to refinish the floors it was a six day process and we do this once a year um so that the floors can look clean and glossy uh and pretty proud to say as well that that we uh will be hosting the gym for special Oly Olympics they'll use the gy gym every Sunday uh for their basketball team and the wonderful thing about that is Staff um volunteered to give up one of their um while we will pay them but they even said we don't mind coming out here um to to to be a part and to work Sundays for this uh Special Olympics so we're pretty excited about that we have two weeks left in Spring ball registration and then um we're finishing to the end uh it's a it's a lot of registration going on within the city as you know Spring ball and fall ball continues to rise and grow table talk is um on this Thursday 23rd at 5:30 uh commission just a reminder that uh we will be bringing back back to you at the second commission uh some options and discussing the storm water uh we remember we wanted to do that soon this year so we wouldn't be at the last minute you have some time to really look at um all of the recommendations that will come along and finance committee meeting is January 30th uh and so uh those are just a couple of uh items that we've been working on here in the city thank thank you um our warrant list morning do you have any questions about the warrant list only one I didn't get asked on Friday what do we buy from Amazon oh that's a variety of things I I know that it can be office supplies it can be uh computer equipment I know that the police department uh by swag to give out to Children there's a lot of different things I can pull the detail to that if you'd like commissioner just I just didn't know if that was a standard budgeted thing or or what is it just so it's just miscellaneous throughout the Departments correct and it's just a an ease of purchasing uh because they do do delivery and it comes quickly so it I don't have that in front of me right now but I can certainly get you the detail but I will tell you it's a variet of departments what I thought right any other questions thank you City attorney any updates for us just one quick response to the comments regarding the Quasi judicial hearing standard for development orders you are not locked in to approval um you have the ability to approve approve with conditions or deny the applicant Bears the burden of proof to show that he has met all of the conditions that the city has set um for the application requirements but the commission is not locked in to approval particularly if the record demonstrates that there is a public purpose in maintaining the status quo and therefore denying the application now that public purpose can't be implied so it's essentially a approve approve with conditions or deny with a reason but if you have that reason and you have heard it on the record before you you do have the ability to do that I just wanted to say that for the record leading up to that hearing at next meeting right thank you for that clarification moving on to our consent agenda approval of minutes 12123 approval to declare assets 49 3899 and 11 3495 at Surplus and authorized staff to auction off and approval of Florida um Grant amendment number three for the Florida and Ohio improvements project extending the grant time duration and updating the program description is there a motion for this a motion to approve second motion by commissioner PE second by commissioner perno city manager call the vote commissioner pees yes commissioner perno yes commissioner van yes Comm morg yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed um agenda item number 11 discussion and possible approval to ratify the decision for the overtime payment to the city manager for working at the MLK event in 2024 all right so we said we wanted to discuss this so is there I guess we're open for discussion motion to approve second all right there's a motion to approve and then there's a second motion by commissioner Ward second by commissioner uh pebles um is there discussion from the public yes ma'am Happy New Year to you all happy New Year and thanks for all you did over the holidays to make things go well um I've had over the years I've had uh both Sal worried in hourly positions myself um and as an hourly worker I like that I could uh pick up some extra time if I wanted it to as a salaried person I felt like intelligent time management and maybe taking comp time being at the place where I need to be when I need to be there in a salary position position this is what I do but then I take time off elsewhere if I have to be there on a Sunday morning or or Friday night or whatever I'm there but I might be taking time off elsewhere and mayor I don't mean to interrupt are Arlene arene are you trying to talk about item 11 yes I thought that's where we were we we're on item 12 sorry we're still on 11 are we 11 or 12 we're on it number 11 I thought we were I'm sorry he opened he opened it up public discussion I fault sorry um with all this anyway I just feel like intelligent time management would be thing and um if we decide to give overtime for something that it we retrofitting basically some from Martin Luther King holiday in 2024 and when she accepted her job it was as a salar position I don't I would like to know however how much an hourly wage if you decide to give it to her how much is her hourly wage and and then what is that is that going to be time and a half so what how do you how do you reckon that right and you're correct we're actually looking at 2024 so um we're not making a decision on this upcoming Martin Luther King J your holiday but it sounds like you would be you'd be setting a no we're we're not it just says specifically 2024 so this has this decision today has nothing to do with the holiday that's on Monday um that will be further discussed um in her contract um conversations upcoming in the future meetings so yeah so this is just for the decision that we made um a citizen had a concern that we did not do everything by the book or that we possibly could have violated Sunshine um in the way that we approve this so that's why um City attorney made her comments earlier about we could leave it on the consent agenda or if we wanted to uh appease the citizens our other our other salaried employees in the in the in in the city going to be time thank you mayor if I could um I made a mistake I thought we were on 12 so is there any way I can resend my motion sure I'd like to resend my motion I was wondering what you're doing I don't know I I thought we were on 12 that's my mistake sorry all right so you need to make a motion to resend your motion then there has to be a second to resend that you have to remove your second all right and then so do I need to remove the second first before okay I'll remove the second all right so uh so there's no motion uh Mr Hines I'm sorry you have to take take a seat again I'm sorry there there's nothing for us to discuss at this moment uh so again we pulled this off the consent agenda for the commission to discuss y so let's discuss so first I think the first we need to look at is what does the city manager contract State and this is exactly what it says in their contract uh it says as recognized that employee as part of her employment will be required devote over devote time to business of the employer outside the expected normal 40-hour Work Week Municipal holidays accepted and to that end employee would be allowed to take compensat time off as she shall deem appropriate during said normal office hours so long as such time off does not affect the performance of the employee in performing her duties um if you read this the way I read this the intent of it is not to pay the city manager overtime and if it was it should be stated in it um I've reached out to multiple Commissioners and Mayors and city managers to kind of get their feedback like what do you guys do in your municipalities I'm going to be honest with you um normally the response I get is is they either chuckle or they're like really are you messing with me um they they don't get overtime um I researched I went online researched other city manager employment contracts and um they're worded pretty similar to what ours is worded they're all seem to be worded pretty similar there was a few I found that specifically stated they don't get overtime um I just think the whole intention of it is not to have overtime and I'm not saying the city manager doesn't work long hours she does but that's why city managers are typically well compensated um but the part that this is the part I think that bugs me the most um you know we we talked about it already back in January 2024 we received an email from the city asking approval from Commissioners to pay city manager overtime for work in the MLK event um I feel that this put the Commissioners in a bad position um for the ones that did respond I can't speak for them I know commissioner pees and um I know you guys talked about a little bit already but I don't I don't think none of them looked at it and said even though this is against a Sunshine Law violation or something like that I'm going to respond I don't think they any of them realize that um fortunately I never responded to it since I accidentally skipped over it um um however the city did feel that they received enough respones to Grant the city manager overtime pay um when the violation when this came to light instead of the city coming and apologizing to the Commissioners for putting us in a bad position and publicly acknowledging it was decided to add it to the consent agenda at the pre-commission meeting um and I believe this is probably there just to hopefully it wouldn't have any discussion it would Press On uh to me the right thing for the city to have done was to add it to the agenda make sure there was accountability and take the proper proper remedial action to sure it doesn't happen again um I don't feel it's that complicated um I think we're making this harder on ourselves it needs to be um I think a lot of this has to do with transparency um when we all ran for office um and this isn't a dig on you commissioner Vandergriff I know you didn't run for office you were appointed it's not your fault um but when we ran for office we all vowed to be transparent and that's where I think commissioner perel you were going with us when you were talking earlier um now saying all this um I that doesn't mean I don't take any responsibility for this uh when the email came out I I will let you know and I I know I talked about this before uh during that time I had a lot of person medical problems going with the tumor that I have in my hip and um I believe this is probably why I skipped over it uh however it's no excuse and I should have paid more attention um I should have and and we all should have uh prevented us from getting to this point um and I don't know if anybody else will but I would like to formly apologize to the residents of Lin Haven uh for not being more meticulous to detail and um and just trusting uh everything the city does and and thinking that they're doing it right everyone's going to make mistakes I get that um but I do play a part in that also so what um what mistake cuz you're asking city employees to apologize you're saying they made a mistake say employes employee or whoever I mean this this you're saying the city so the city put us in a position when that email went out right so who who is the city well who sent the email okay that's an employee okay I said the employee right so that's what I'm saying so we're asking employees whether it's one several to apologize saying they did something wrong no no no no he's saying that the city should not have put us in this position yes and should have been forcoming and apologizing for putting us in this position as Commissioners that's I and I think it's important to acknowledge here there is a different difference in interpretation from my perspective the contract language that says Municipal holidays accepted is is it is critical here because her expectation of when she works excludes Municipal holidays and that is the specific issue you have before you she is not by her contract she is not expected to work on holidays and here we have an opportunity an instance where she did in fact work at the direction of the commission right and and then says to that end employer will be allowed to take compensatory time off so she think that phrase again we disagree on the interpretation I think that phrase is meant to modify the she's as a salaried employee should be working as many hours as it takes on non holiday days to get the city work done so when she works overtime she takes comp time as a result to set out so can we agree on this if she does work on holidays does she automatically get overtime no she does not hence the reason for the question I think by City staff corre and I think so again that should be all open done in the open it shouldn't have been done the way it was you're you're you're right and and I'm just going to recap from what my my end at the time of the event I was attending the event and I was asked by Miss Hodes she said I'd like to do something for um for for the city manager Miss Gainer because she planned that event she she she worked that event from beginning to end and she only had a couple of people with her um uh to that day who who who were with the city um and I mean that event was absolutely wonderful and and and I agreed at that time so I felt like I didn't need to respond to the email cuz I said whatever y'all are going to do just you know go ahead and do something for whatever and I didn't think it was a violation of Sunshine Law I probably was the first one contacted and it was face to face versus an email so I didn't respond to the email but since since then and I know you're bringing up the valid points and I I especially brought up the point I don't as as my previous life and being a salaried employee don't I don't agree that you should get overtime if you're on salary plain and simple but that's just the thep the ballpark I've played in my whole life we we brought this up and city manager stated she does not you know this is already happened and she already got paid um she has said I don't want overtime she said it to me she said it in our pre- meeting she said she said you know don't don't don't do anything like this again so I think that covers up what this is and we're the good thing is that we're talking about it now but uh um the going back and forth y'all just had I think the thing that separates the fact that she it should she get overtime or not is that she's a contracted employee she's a contracted Sal employee so as a contractor Sal employment and she has to go by her contract and you're talking about you're agreeing and disagreeing over the wording in her contract basically so so I mean we can we can Hackle back and forth all day about that but she got paid she she she she's this event came from her she brought it you know it was an event that was going on but she brought it to Sheffield Park and and and and brought in everything around it it was it was quite an event if you attend I saw commissioner pebles was there you know and it was the first time she did it you know first time it was done and it was done so well I I think that the the the the small group or the people that were there with her said we got to do something for her so I think you know and and that I was in that Spirit too but then I didn't know what it would cause um to this to this degree and uh as long as we have an understanding going forward and since we're it's a retro thing you know um you know I I wanted it all to be out there I answered I answered Ryan scra email or and spoke with him you know and and I just wanted to recap my perspective your recaping your perspective I'm sure the other Commissioners will say how they felt about what happened that day so we can get it out there because violation of sunshine or or what this this thing already happened you know and I'm just hoping that you know and and and I I agree I want to apologize to the other department heads and and people that you know may be in a situation where they they've worked and didn't get paid you know because that's that's not right either you know so and and they get caught in those situations all the time but then they get they get compensatory pay for other stuff they do do sometimes but you know you I think they all got it in their heads where they've done something and they didn't get overtime for it CU they're on a salary you know so it's one of these things where it happened you know and it's it's it's our cross to bear but you know um I I think uh I think we need to bring it to light like this and I'm just giving you my perspective on it I I I I know yall could go back and forth as far as the because I think we're kind of hung up on the municipal holiday thing and pay whether whether she should have gave up time or got paid right you know and that's and I I think it was all done with good intentions yeah I think it was um but if there's any doubt as far as whether this needs to be done in the open just do it in the open Y and and otherwise we we wouldn't have to have this conversation we learned a lesson about that and also um when we get to talking about things like her car allowance and stuff that should have been something we voted on too but exactly what I'm getting got done in the budget right all right so we're discussion to approve something that we've already approved so is there a motion to ratify to approve the ratification for the decision of overtime payment to the city manager working at the MK event in 2024 might just say one more thing to to um yeah uh that I think the key here is that there a learning moment we figur fig out now we have a way forward as a city manager said she's not expecting uh overtime pay anymore we know that the talks of the contract is coming up soon we can take all of this into consideration when we talk about potentially modifying the contract when we get to that point I think the key here is there's a learning experience for everybody we've learned now we have a way forward and if we don't have a way forward let's figure out the way forward but the key is like what commissioner perno said it's a learning experience we learned um and I apologize for confusion that it caused um and uh that you know that's something I apologize for and now I know better and um you know if I feel like you know maybe it should be something that's we should vote on if it's an email or something then I'll just suggest that in the future is there a motion for this I'd like to make a comment one more comment I I looked at this as a bonus not so much as um overtime pay it's not that she simply worked this she organized it uh she was responsible for getting the individuals there cleaning up and I agree with uh the attorney um when she's off she's off but she likes to show everybody else that if I'm going to ask you to do something I I can do it too so when it was originally sent to me I was not thinking it was overtime pay I was thinking it was an adab boy bonus um my mistake um I apologize if in the eyes of the citizens that we violated the sunshine um we didn't do it intentionally we thought we were doing it out of the goodness of our hearts but I don't think you ever have to worry about her accepting um a bonus again thank you Miss hajes if you could come please I remember last year you had a an explanation regarding your request I I know you may not remember verbatim but I remember you had a an explanation as to why we should consider doing that for the city manager because of the because of the work so there is a policy uh Personnel policy that allows the city manager to compensate exempt salaried employees for um extraordinary service or under disaster situations because of that policy I did ask um if that could be considered for the city manager M um I actually did talk to the City attorney not miss Meyers but Mr obos and he said I could do an individual email get responses what I failed to do was to ask what the next step was after that because after receiving three confirms and a verbal I felt like there was enough Authority for the extraordinary pay all right thank you all right any more discussion there a motion for this I make a motion to approve what we've already approved is there a second for this I'll second it all right motion to approve what we've already approved second by commissioner pebles uh Mr Hines if you would come back for your discussion please thank sir commission Happy New Year I was out of the country when the new flipped over uh this process could be avoided by simply making a policy for comp time versus overtime so the commit the manag works when she don't work she get comp time for the 8 hours 12 hours whatever it is when it's permissible with her job sometimes she have to be on her job 24 hours a day so therefore someone decided to do something for her by giving her overtime that was their personal problem and some of you that missed the the item or overlooked the item that was your fault not hers she got paid for it all you got to do is ratify that you paid her that's all this conversation is all about and the one that half commissioner that whoever you are you know who you are you know what everybody's talking about we someone in this country in this County not even in this County some people come to this County every month to talk at the meetings trying to separate you some of y'all allowing them to do that you're the commissioner of the 20 ,000 people live in Lin Haven not Port St Joe not Southport not all the other districts so you need to think about us not 12 people not 30 people not 100 not 200 people but 20,000 people who you represent and I wish that y'all would get yourself together and just vote yay or nay on all the subjects and not trying to pass things on over and over you got a lawyer that can tell you whether you're doing something right or wrong take a judgment and go with it you get Su you get sued thank you thank you is there additional public commentary right C amended if you call to the vote commissioner vandagriff yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner Ward no commissioner parno yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed discussion and possible approval of resolution 20251 448 to support the fdot transportation alternative Grant application uh city manager if you read this by title only please on 12 cor right this is resolution 20251 448 a resolution of the city of Lin Haven Florida to support construction of a sidewalk on Carol Carolina Avenue and West 14th Street with Transportation alternative set aside program funding and providing for effective date any questions from Mr jeni all right no questions there a motion for this motion to approve I'll second motion by commissioner Ward second by commissioner pebles is there comments from the public no comments see man if you call the vote commissioner War yes commissioner pebles yes commissioner vaner Griff yes commissioner perno yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed uh first reading of ordinance 1173 amending chapter 50 um in regards to the firefighters retirement system and the code of ordinances for the city um of Len Haven so there is no uh vote on this but we will have um the reading of the ordinance by title only ordinance number 1173 ordinance of City Len Haven amending chapter 50 Personnel Article 4 firefighters retirement system the code of ordinances of the city of L Haven amending section through 149 supplemental benefits component for special benefits chapters chapter 175 share accounts providing for inclusion in the code providing for severability of Provisions repealing all ordinances and conflict here with and providing effective date are there any questions for the City attorney all right first reading of ordinance 1174 amending chapter 50 person Personnel article 3 police officers retirement system uh see the manag if you read by title only please orness 1174 ordinance of the city of L Haven amending chapter 50 Personnel article 3 police officers retirement system of the code of ordinances of the city of Lin Haven amending section 50 through 104 supplemental benefits component for special benefits chapter 185 share accounts providing for inclusion in the code providing for severability of Provisions repealing all ordinances in Conflict here with and providing an effective date any questions for the City attorney right first reading of ordinance 1175 small scale future land use map Amendment for parcel number 0871 0-03 0-0 traditional neighborhood development to commercial city manager if you read this by title only please ordinance 1175 an ordinance providing for the adoption pursuant to chapter 163 Florida Statutes of a land use change from traditional neighborhood development to commercial for an approximate 9.99 3 acres plus a minus Acres of the property located on the west side of CR 2321 North of deer Point Elementary School in the the city of linh Haven Bay County Florida repealing all ordinances in Conflict here with providing effective data thank you um any questions for a director of development and planning I would just like for um well I can guess I can reiterate that I asked a question at the pre um pre meeting um if there were any residential houses close by uh because I thought that was pretty important because you're changing uh the classification and they're not any resid is that correct on either side if you have a look at the aerial map that was provided to you in your packet you will see that there are some uh residences directly on the Bayou there's 1 2 3 four five six seven narrow lots that are on the water um there are also some parcels at the end of whatever that little street is on the opposite side of the road you can see on the right hand side um the other closest ones are kind of across from uh deero Elementary but again on the water so there are not any immediately adjacent to that property not any on 2321 no not adjacent not immediately adjacent to the property and the ones that are closest to that value is minimal piece of property what do you what do you mean I'm understand you um well I'm looking at the picture and it's kind of a pointed they're they're like parallel to each other actually on the water at the end of little dirt road in the county all right and you said there were how many houses there um I'm looking at the Lots one two three four five six there it looks like there are seven Lots but no one's built on them yet it looks like there's houses on there it's in the county but there're not any according to this map on 2321 what we have to look at is we have to look at the land juices of the adjacent properties when you're looking at a future land use map Amendment change that is State controlled you vote on it if it's a small scale then you vote on it you have the two readings of the the ordinance the next reading will be a public hearing um and you make your decision and then we send the ordinance to the state if it's not challenged it becomes effective on the 30th no 31st day um however what you all um what we have to look at is whether the request is consistent with adjacent properties which is why I provide you all with the um the land jues of the properties that are adjacent so if you have a look on your um on your car your commission Agenda Report you will see that on the North there's County Road 2321 and Bay County residential land juuse you're looking at what land juuse districts are um adjacent um on the south there's traditional neighborhood development which is what this currently is traditional neighborhood development allows for single family homes multif family homes commercial and um to the east is County Road 2321 and then to the West is Bay County Agricultural and Bay County Agricultural Timberland now when you first look at this you could say well this is a commercial that's land use that's been asked for there are no commercial land juices immediately adjacent to this property however traditional neighborhood development which is what it currently is allows for commercial which is what they're asking for so they have a reason for wanting to split this off the bigger parcel and actually asking for a specifically a commercial land use but if they did not ask for that commercial is or is an existing land use um as is if that makes sense yes thank you any other questions for Mr Amanda thank you just a clarification they could do it commercial because it's tnd sir but they want to isolate this particular partiel and dedicated to just commercial yes so they've um already split off it has a new parcel number um but it still has a tnd land juice on right but it's a formality that it's a separate parcel now and it needs a it needs a needs a use they they could keep it as T well they couldn't keep it as tnd D because they' they've reduced the size F to be a tnd you have to be a certain number of acres and by splitting this off it's too small to be a tnd in its own right that that puts the light over my head yep thank you first reading in transmittal approval of ordinance 1176 large scale comprehensive plan text Amendment um if you would read this uh and then I have a couple of questions sure orance number 11 76 ordinance of the city of Len Haven Florida amending the city's comprehensive plan to implement the evaluation and appraisal report required by Section 163 3191 Florida Statutes amending elements to meet the requirements of the Section 163 3177 Florida Statutes basing the Amendments upon permanent and seasonal population estimates and project projections published by the office of Economic and demographic research for a 10-year and 20-year planning period amending one future use element goal one objective two policy 2 104 adding group hones amending objective 10 natural resources protection policy 10 three development and maintaining the storm water master plan amending chapter 3 housing it element to update to update the level of service standards and goal one policy 1-1 and goal two objectives 1 through six continue provisions of facilities to meet existing and projected demands amending chapter 5 Coastal management element goal objective three policy 3-6 to include the requirement of dear Point protection Zone and adding goal three object is 1 through 7 preparing adapting mitigating and managing climate change impacts in comp compliance with Section 38- 0933 Florida Statutes related to the sea level rise amending chapter 7 Recreation open space element goal one objective to update population projections and facility Pro uh Provisions amending chapter 7 Capital improve Improvement elements goal one objective 1 policy 1 through two to update the infrastructure level of service standards and updating objective 8 level figure 9 through1 schedule of Capital Improvements for five and 10year plan planning period projected Revenue sources to ensure the availability of the public facilities needed to maintain level of service and standards provide for severability of Provisions repealing all ordinances that in here in Conflict here with and provide an effective date thank you for reading that for us um remember in Friday's pre-commission meeting uh you you stated that we would need to actually have a vote on this today to transmit not on the not on the content of it at all because that is going to be reviewed by the state and they will probably have some things they want us to add or change right I'm not asking about the the content to transmit it to send it to the state right so I'm asking really more procedural question is is what I'm so because typically when we have a first reading we don't do any votes and then it goes to the second reading so my question is we vote today then what do we do with our next meeting for the second reading do we vote again um vote to transmit today you're going to vote to transmit today by is specifically what your action is today you're doing a first reading of the ordinance when it comes back to you the content may be slightly changed based on the comments from the state but at that second reading in public hearing you'll have an opportunity to approve the content that vot will be to approve the content and again send it back to the state uh for approval got it so you're going to transmit it we wait a few weeks and so then it'll come back for the second reading in a few months or a couple of weeks months or whatever then we have the second yes sir if if everything is fine then as soon as we get that back we can go ahead and put it on the agenda if we have things to change we have up to six months to change them okay sounds great so the second reading is not until we get feedback from the state okay yeah and that that's what I was trying to figure out for the procedure to make sure we're not that we're doing anything wrong but in my mind I I'll know what to expect for the next time okay uh are there any uh questions for Miss Amanda I know we had a good discussion on this Friday thank you for the great explanation of of the changes that we're making um and so is there any additional questions for her no right is there a motion for this I'd like to make a motion that we approve the transmittal of the ordinance I'll second all right motion by commissioner perno second by commissioner Ward is there any discussion from the public yes sir I was wondering what took you so long to come back up here what I was wondering what took you so long to come back up here I don't scare easy um goes back many years with the Planning Group uh doing small scale and large scale this will be your first small scale for the year 2025 you have a number that you can get to and the large scale has the same thing too however you've correctly identified the fact this has to go to the state most of the people are under the impression that the offices that this go to are just the state no it's five General Offices that it goes to one of them was the DCA DCA was in charge of reviewing something like this and see how it would impact the overall picture that's why you have a first reading then goes to the state state comes back and tells you if it's right wrong or how to correct it and then then you do that and you go back to the state again you don't know what the state's going to say you're under the impression that the DCA office has been closed no it's not those of these three-letter organizations that take a look at what you are proposing or what they are proposing and they're going to send back Corrections or no they're going to approve or no that's why you have two weeks three weeks in advance you don't know what the state's going to say so rightfully so in your second reading if the state says okay then you vote on it doesn't say okay you have the corrections you're going to make the corrections then you have to submitted it to the state again so what you're coming up with is you have to wait this is what you have to do and this is what we've been doing for a long time thank you thank you uh additional public commentary City man if you call the vote commission perno yes commission work yes commission VRI yes commission pebles yes mayor Nelson yes motion passed um today just for discussion items 17 and 18 uh item 17 discussion pertaining to defining what constitutes an accessory structure per section 5.01 .02 exess structure in all land use districts um open for discussion I got a few things on it so I was looking at uh what other municipalities do around um because I don't want to claim to be an expert on Accessory structures by any means but uh one thing that I've kind of come across is it's really important that if it's going to be a permanent accessory structure that especially here in Florida it needs to be anchored down even if it's heavy we need to have it anchored down um because as we know with hurricanes structures Can Fly Away pretty easily um another thing that we need to look at is how how far do we want it to be required to be away from the setback most most people say around 3 to 5T so that's probably important but we want the setback to be another thing to look at is do we want to make it to where I believe it's does it is the requirement right now that has to be in the backyard okay so that's already covered and then um another thing we want to look at is if it's going to be permanent what the maximum height is is some people say it should be no higher than your house others say it should be no higher than like 12T so it depends on where we want to go there another thing is how big can it be um some say it's better to do by percentage of the square footage of your home other municipalities have a straightforward like 200 square ft something like that so really that's I think if we can kind of decide together where what those areas there are really what um what we need to look at if we're going to allow something an acccessory structure to be permanent got it um any other discussion probably the number one complaint I hear from citizens is the fact that someone has something in their front yard or in the driveway and they'll tell me well you know I'm following the rules and this individual is not and so I just want you to be aware that that's probably the number one complaint that I get any further discussion there any questions for uh staff about this my question is what do we do from here where do where do we go I mean what do we write down to make more specific or change do we copy what another City's done or so so going from here we wanted your feedback and even if you wanted to have this change CL clarified I mean that's the most important thing is it needs Clarity to it uh so that we can enforce whatever's there and as you know a lot of our policies are sometimes ambiguous um there's a gray area and we just need to identify those things and um then from there we can rewrite policy or keep it the same now is it possible that uh what we have is okay not okay and I guess yeah that's a great question from commissioner perno um so what are the and you mentioned this on Friday so what are the concerns or the gray areas that you're having to address that you would like Clarity on mostly I think the mobile attic type um containers that people do often put in the front yard even though we actually allow side and rear yard um and the other thing of these huge shipping containers um I wanted to commissioner pebles we actually do have a height limit on them it's 25 fet just wanted to let you know that we do have that um I noticed that one of the other cities um have a list of things that are not allowed so I don't know whether if you're generally happy with what we have we could keep it as is but then put a list of prohibited structures maybe just a thought maybe we could also put something that if it's a storage container in the front yard like we talked about on Friday I like that idea about how if it's a storage container in the front yard we don't want to like site them the day that it's discovered we want to give them an opportunity so if we could maybe have it in writing that I don't know 30 days after the first um notice that it needs to be either removed or put to the sidey yard whatever we decide but I think it I don't know maybe that's something for the uh attorney okay you all have lots of options so it's really just enunciating for us what you care most about and what you don't care about right and and and I guess we're also because staff brought it to us to say these are issues they're having to make sure that we're clarifying what's there commissioner perno what I'm hearing is it's shipping containers it's the it's the pods so to speak um and is it I think it's our next thing is the mobile homes or stuff in the driveway that we're going to talk about next but I don't know if it's all the same but but uh I think we can address the shipping shipping containers and the pods I think is what we need to add the language for mostly and I think she has City attorney has the the word the verbiage from other cities that either either said you could do it for so long or or prohibit or whatever if you do want to if if you want to address shipping containers specifically again you have the options you can prohibit them expressly all the time you can allow them for in front yards for a limited duration maybe up to a certain size it really it's up to you to say what you find offensive whether it's the appearance that's offensive or the placement in a property that's offensive or the size of the container or a combination of those things you're giving us too many options I know but I just again I'm just trying to guide the conversation in terms of you'll tell me what you care the most about we can then craft a regulation that addresses that primary concern I think what we care the most about is providing Clarity for what their concerns might be that they're getting from right now they're allowed unless they're forbidden or restricted in some way so if y'all would like to have some restrictions please let us know so that we can craft those all right so let's discuss that for a moment in regards to the shipping containers being in I guess in the front or you know just in general we don't allow accessory structures in the front yard period only in the side I was thinking of the mobile attic I'm sorry the little mobile pod thing side yards and driveways right sorry you allow them in driveways oh those mobile pods are if you class them as accessory structures are not allowed in the front either if you want to allow them in the front for a period of time that's something that you can discuss currently no accessory structures but then the question is is the pods an accessory structure I I don't know but that's where I always see the mobile yeah pods is in everybody's front yard so I just thought that's what they're supposed to be until um until they move could we make it as simple as a pod or a storage container is an access accessory structure with the exception that it's allowed in the front yard for a certain amount of time that way we would cover both bases we say yes it's an accessory structure but if it's a storage container that specific accessory structure has limitations to a time I think then I would say in some sense try to pull the citizens to see if we want storage containers in our city as accessory structures that could be one of our questions on the ballot so that that would be you know one of the questions is that we would have to consider is that what we do we want uh storage containers you know in our in our backyards we Haden heard anything from this side of the panel uh this side this is the way I look at it is there's people who use storage pods for temporary use and usually it's probably I would imagine moving um or maybe they got construction going on I don't want to hinder that so I'm for you're allowed to use it for whatever time that we agree two weeks 30 days whatever and um and it could be similar to when we did with the the RVs right after the hurricane we we were very um flexible as far as how long you you stayed living in RV while you got your house um repaired so we could probably do the same thing with this where if you do need it longer than this then you need to send a letter to the city and then it needs to be approved by the commission as far as what is your plan um so it's not there forever you know that's kind of where I'm leading towards okay you guys think so with the mobile pods and just not shipping container just talking about mobile pods right now so the mobile pods commissioner work you're thinking temporary use only with continued extension upon requesting from commission okay uh Miss Vander Griff well the problem right now is a lot of those Temporaries have been there for months and months and months and I guess if we cuz right now we're just discussing to give the City attorney some idea on what language to craft but to your point we could say hey once this is passed that starts day one right um that will start day one of certainly there might have been some out there for two years right um but if it passes with this new language of temporary usage then that could be day you know effective date and then from there you know make the citizens aware through our newsletter and such Facebook post and all of that and then from there we start day one of how long have you had it in whatever time frames we come up with you know following from there so that that might remedy you know remedy that to to show some some Grace where we're not necessarily being retroactive but but moving forward but that that's kind of I think what solves what you're talking about is if we give them an option to extend it if they needed to extend it so we know that hey you they do have a plan in place it's not going to be there forever that's why I thought that was kind of important because you're right there is a lot out there and you don't want to go out there and say all right everybody move them out you know at the same time so um to me you know I just want to be able to see that they actually have a plan to actually remove them and temporary use for mobile pod yeah all right commissioner perno temporary use for mobile pod and if you could clarify again location of mobile pod where are those supposed to be located currently we only allow accessory structures in the side and rear so if you want to allow them in the front then that's something that will have to be put in there too this discussion is just for the front right but this is just for the mobile pod right so what we're saying is that we see them in the driveways and front yards but they're not supposed to be there per the ordinance as an accessory structure is supposed to be on the side or back so we can change it to make it aable in the front for that extended period of time or we can leave it as is and say it needs to be on the side of the back and then allow time period for the temporary usage we could allow them in the back it's just the front that could would be temporary is what we're getting at right if you if if you want to keep them in the side and backyards as is that gives direction to staff as to what they should be enforcing nothing in a driveway nothing in the front yard but if you're okay with them in the front yard for 30 days two weeks whatever that's important for staff to know from an enforcement perspective and for me for a drafting perspective yeah because that that's kind of the way I was looking at for the temporary it was just for the front yeah yeah same that's how I was looking at it so um and what has been the uh commissioner W made reference to the RV policy when I came in we were just extending them so there was you know there wasn't I wasn't on the initial how long was that supposed to be used um city manager could you I think that was six I'm sorry I think it was 6 months sometimes it could be longer if they knew that they were rebuilding an entire house they would ask that request in the letter so they would say you know eight months um and then we would you would approve for eight months they would come back in 8 months and um say yes you know hey we're finished or we need an extension so it was really the letter that they wrote um in terms of how what that length was okay and we also I mean we're seeing mobile pods but then people get very meticulous and say storage containers so we don't want to put we don't want to like limit well well yeah were you we're using that phrase to to to delate in our discussion between the shipping container because I think we had a little confusion on that so yeah yeah mobile po cuz the companies call them different things um so I guess whatever language we could use that could cover all those all of those is what we would be uh want to make sure it's inclusive language to cover all of those um so for clarity what we're doing is we are discussing storage containers or the the sh the the moving containers for having only temporary use if they're placed in the front yard is that is am I hear is that what we're clarifying yes all right so we're okay with the current language of what's in the policy for side and rear we're okay with that now if I'm if I'm also understanding you're ask are you also asking us if these should be consist considered as accessory structures is that something else you're having needing Clarity on as well yes sir correct okay if that's the case I would like to add that if it's going to be permanent they need to let us know and that it needs to be anchored down right but it's for us to I think right now that we have to decide if it's an right now it's not an accessory structure correct yeah so we have to discuss and we don't have to decide today but part of our thought process needs to be and what we have to direct for the languages do we want to include these as accessory structures right so we're we're doing a second part now first part they can keep them in the front we're saying that we're going to consider allowing them to keep them in the front yards for a certain period of time with extensions but also if code enforcement drives by right now they're not part of the uh the ordinance to say that they're an approved accessory structure to even have whether it's on the side or the rear our ordinance doesn't allow those to be on the premises as an accessory structure so we have to consider you know um would that be an accessory structure now I think we also since our City attorney told us we have a lot of options um I think one of the things that if we're looking at considering those as accessory structures or there are certain Aesthetics that those accessory structure should have for example um every let's say storage unit that you get from Home Depot has some type of aesthetic to it or it you know it's it's not just vanilla square right it has some type of roof line and and those type of things that go along with it or if you buy one of the storage units from around town so is that something that we would want to consider um as well um with that is does it need to have some type of a aesthetic if we're saying that you can keep this as an accessory structure trying to keep in mind that we're you know representing the entire city so um cuz right now when they do put the the storage units in their backyard they have the roof shapes and things like roof pitch to it so um so those are things to consider if we're going to say yes it can be anex restructure I would ask that we consider the a Aesthetics of that accessory structure do do we have do we have many issues with larger shipping Ty things this is a new thing really with people wanting to use shipping containers is also sorts of storage and it's common in the county um but now yeah people are beginning to ask if they can have them in the city and they're getting mad when we say no which is why we really need some direction right now we're not on the we're not on the shipping containers yet we're still on the little mobile pods some people are keeping the mobile pods as accessory structures like as a small 8 by10 storage unit is what some people are doing but no uh well part one is we're saying yes for the front yard but according to staff it is still not approved as an accessory structure so we have to decide do we want the mobile pods to be an accessory structure that's approved that can be on the side and in the back and if so I would say if we say yes there an accessory structure that we want to include then I would just ask that we think about the Aesthetics having some type of aesthetic requirement for that as well but it should be more like a shed then yeah that if you're going to keep it you know make it look nice for your neighbor um I I agree with that okay but again are we dealing with many instances of of that right now I don't know about the mobile pods they're mostly out front I think issue so we're putting to bed the out front thing on the right but we need verbiage that's going to identify the accessor the the that's necessary structure on the side the so it can't be a mobile pod basically so it's got to be got to have that another look to it and I guess if that's not an issue then we don't have to worry about it today so we'll just focus on the front to be honest I don't know if they're an issue because I'm not in the building department and it's the building department that they would go to for the permits got it okay um let's move on to shipping containers so we got the first part for temporary use all right and if it comes back up accessory structures with mobile pies we'll work on that later um shipping containers um what type what sizes are people asking about because I know they come in different sizes well the big ones that they get off the back of a ship you know that I don't know what size they are correct bigger than what a truck can ha yeah they're big huge ones no I know what I'm saying is that the ones that people are asking about sir yes all right what are your thoughts on on shipping containers cuz right now they're not allowed in the city and some people might not be able to have them because of our your accessory structure can be no bigger than 50% of the size of your house house so if they have a little house it might or if they don't have a big yard because we also have um uh rear yard coverage thing but we don't have anything that actually limits number one again are they in accessory structure and if they are number two do you want to put a limit on the size do you want them do you want language in there that doesn't allow them what you want are you aware of any other cities that allow I know the no the county does right the county they allow a lot um well any other municipalities that allow these shipping containers I don't know do you know Amy I think Callaway expressly prohibits them um and I know that Panama City Beach prohibits metal buildings that are visible from a RightWay I think it so I think they have you impliedly prohibited them that way I can't speak beyond that as to what the other municipalities expressly do I I would say that would be one thing for us to look at how have other cities you know how they responded to to this um as well um any other discussion on it I guess my thought is if it's meets the 50% in the 25t height then it's good and if it doesn't then it's not good I mean to me that seems pretty straightforward do you want them in the city yeah it's their property it's their prerogative you could say that about a lot of things you could say that about the height of grass you could say that about all sorts of things that other people find a new and it's my opinion that it's their property and it's their prerogative how but you can you know people can use them as tiny houses and or airbnbs or swimming pools believe me they will if you allow them they will use them as their man cave and everything else it's that's that's that's where I'm thinking that we need if if it's we have we already have rules in place about an accessory structure can't be so much so big compared to the house now we're going to deal with this large shipping container that can be used for so many different things the tiny house or whatever and then is are we going to allow that or are we going to put aesthetic you know rules on that as well you know that has to look a certain certain way or mat the house or whatever I don't know I'm just saying that uh I'm I'm leaning more toward it should be prohibitive more than than allowing it you know or I don't think any of us are sure right now we yeah I'd rather not I'll be honestly I'm not sure I'm not sure either but I'd rather be prohibitive to to to a fault on this than than to take it and see do you I also can I just can I just say something just a thought there's a reason that people want to live in Lin Haven if you want to look to see what other cities are doing about everything that's something that you can do but people don't want to live in the other cities a lot of them they want they specifically want to live in linh Haven for a reason they're clean do you have an idea approximately of how many requests you've received for this not many like two two over the last six months if only two people but we need to know how to respond to those people yeah I'm I'm of the mindset to be more proh itive than than than accepting to it uh for at this time until we could until we could get a grip around the Aesthetics the size the intentions of you know I hey it probably make a great addition to a house you know but but what would it look like you know what I mean if if I paid $300,000 yeah for a house to live in Lin Haven and somebody puts one and my neighbor brings a shipping container into the backyard that has no fence uh I'd be concerned for my grandchildren and fints and all sorts of things I would not want to go out for a barbecue and look over there and see a shipping container yeah now like you said if they want to live in the county that's the County's business M but if we want to keep um l in pristine and where people want to come to live I think we need to think very seriously about that well let me ask you this if if they had a fence that was tall enough that you couldn't see it would you be all right with it and I know I'm playing devil's advocate here would you be all right with it then because it's kind of out of sight out of mind type thing and it's um I'm I'm on the fence literally so at at this moment let's let's agree to allow the attorney to give us prohibitive language not that that's final because we still got to discuss it and vote on it but so we can have something to read um if you would give us the temporary use language and prohibitive language for the accessory for the shipping containers as accessory structures to give us something to read and then we can continue this discussion once we get that back um would you be able to bring this back to us next commissioner meeting okay and and it will come back as an ordinance so we will have two readings so we'll have two more rounds not maybe necessarily of this but two more rounds to look at it um with that language so all right agenda item number 18 discussion only pertains to specific parking requirements for recreational vehicles per section 05.15 of the ulc city manager again this is just an area for for clarification for us um whether or not you're going to allow RVs to sit in um their driveway or uh we're going to do because most of them do sit in the driveway and our right now our coach says they must be in the back well if we want to move them to the side we just need clarification because we said on Friday there are over 300 RVs here in the city right now and if we tell one no then we have to tell them all no we tell them one yes then Vice you know vice versa so we we just need um for us to to really be on the same page um with the RVs I did reach out to the city planner for the City of Panama City they have not adopted their ordinance yet it's still being considered by the planning board um but he agreed to send it to me uh as soon as he could so I hope I don't have it yet but I hope as soon as I do get it I'm happy to share it okay thank you commissioner pno um um Chief Ramy you said that is there 300 300 sir we're looking at yeah we're looking at 300 recreational vehicles in in driveways correct or is not is that parked on the side yeah some of them have have parked some of them have have little little uh pole barn type things on the side they pull them in but three 300 and I know I know if you go down certain streets that someone's got like a monstrosity of a motor home and they're backed in and neighbors can't see the the next house you know so and I know it's someone's driveway they have the they have right but we might need to look at some Fage to guess uh U see where we can we can establish their their vehicles would it be on when I when I originally looked at this I thought this was an easy answer but it's more complicated and once you start diving into it like for instance to me I don't care if you park your RV and your parking uh in your driveway or not but the problem is if it looks dilapitated like the one from National Lampoon's Vacation or something like that you know yeah if they Park in their driveway it's going to be there for five years yeah and so you know where do you draw the lines if you do allow it then you got people with boats and everything too you got to you got to make stuff for that too and so it it becomes subjective as far as what's presentable and what's not presentable and that just makes it more difficult for code enforcement I don't know I I'm almost leaning towards because I know there's code far as regular Vehicles you know it has to be registered um I don't it can't be on blocks it can't be like your painting it and everything if you're going to do that then you got to put it in a garage and that we use those type of codes to to enforce that um I don't know so if you look at the uh the ordinance as it is right now it says basically permanent placement is for RVs and park trailers are not permitted but right above that section it's section 14- 263 it's pretty I think it's well written when it talks about if it's a temporary placement like in a uh um in a flood Hazard area and it does talk about exactly what you just said like if it's fully licensed for Highway use um and it doesn't have anything and it uh it and it's on Wheels and it's attached in a quick disconnect to where you're going to use it and it's not there as like a permanent living I think we do have a model here that we can build off of I think we're kind of thinking the same thing that like the the city just wants clarification but I don't think we want to leave it to where it's straight across the board you can't have an RV in Lin Haven especi like I know personally know people that use their RV regularly you know we don't want to prevent say hey if you're an RV user you're not welcome here in Len Haven we don't want to get to that point but I definitely understand that we do want to have regulations like you said it's just it's going to make it difficult on Code Enforcement I think that's if we go that direction we got to be very specific on what's allowable what's not yeah definitely definitely want to talk to code enforcement about that well if it's helpful you know what I hear you saying is that you know linh Haven is growing and so I think you are at a point where you have to decide how traditional you want to keep your neighborhoods and preserve um preserve how clean um they have been and while they're well the use of an RV the use of a storage set the use of a boat all of these are incidental to residential home ownership where are you going to draw the line I mean is it is it most important that you do have the ability to store all of those things in your yard and so do you need to change the maximum size of your driveway requirements and then therefore prohibit anything on the grass that's one way to handle it or is it to say the size of driveways are appropriate in this city we want to keep that the same we also want to keep people from parking all of their accessories in the yard to keep those yards clean preserving your traditional neighborhoods is a legitimate public interest and that does mean that you have to draw a line and prohibit some things where you find that balance is unique to your city um prohibiting it all is one way to handle it um that feels very punitive but acknowledging that there are a lot of incidental uses and the the consequences is that your yard will ultimately be cluttered if they are all allowed so you can't say yes to everything and that is a hard decision to make but that's that's really the decision What accessories are appropriate on the property to preserve the neighborhood neighborhood feel that makes L Haven so attractive right thank you um well great discussion I think we'll have more to discuss once we get the email from City attorney um with the language that Panama City is using um for their um RV situation so hopefully we'll be able to uh have some resolution on this within the the next few meetings