##VIDEO ID:dHUqIWRvBOU## call in our pre-commission meeting to order at 800 a.m. so we'll jump into our consent agenda of course we have on there number nine to hold one commission meeting in November one commission meeting in December of course we still reserve the ride in case we need to meet for emergency purposes to still meet all right so it's it's not that there's a pertinent issue that we need to meet about that we cannot um is everybody okay with that um nove one meeting November one meeting December M all right and then uh number 10 authorizing me to sign the modification to for project 4399 065 R for the lift station generators for Lift Station 4 lift station three and lift station five any questions about that yes I do all right okay uh are we trying to meet certain standards and that's the reason for the modification no ma'am this is just because it's taken so long um to get everything done through the state that the original um expiration I believe was April of this year and then you all actually extended it through this year and then this one will be in I believe March of 2025 which the slabs on these generators are poured the rough end is complet complete we are awaiting the actual generator and the transfer switches which is scheduled to be delivered this month so we shouldn't have an issue meeting these um and I think it was two meetings ago you all approved the modification for Lift Station 2 um but as slow as the state moves I didn't wait to have them all at once because it could have been three months before we got these so we had the first one that one's been approved and then now this one is the additional three you will probably see in the future several modification if they are Grant projects simply because of the fact that hurricane Hing has hit in several states that means that fdm FEMA are sending many of their resources people Grant managers are probably just overwhelmed with paperwork um so I we anticipate that that that's normally what happens is that our reimbursements slow down everything slows down because if a major disaster happens okay any other questions for that one all right um next up Mr Marcy you come and chat with us about approval of the SEL agreement with uh H Harris versus the city of L Haven believe we all received the email and don't know how many reached out or how many had a chance to converse with Mr Mars him and I talked um it was Wednesday or Thursday um yes sir well wasn't yesterday so it was Wednesday um that we had a chance to uh to converse about this particular agenda item so he's here to give us a brief summary and answer any questions that he can answer um for us at this time yeah thank you Mr Mayor Commissioners C manager we've got um this is a employment discrimination case that dates back to 2020 so none of your current HR folks uh were involved and it was an allegation that an employee suffered from discrimination we fully investigated the case we interviewed all the witnesses um we conducted Discovery and we were set to go to trial actually this coming Monday on the 7th and as typically happens in cases uh at the last minute we got a favorable settlement offer uh which after we weighed and balance the evidence on the witnesses and and we made a recommendation to the city's insurance carrier that the settlement be accepted so after consultation with the city manager and the insurance carrier the insurance carrier agreed to uh the settlement so the settlement if this commission approves it would be entirely from uh insurance company funds now we use the phrase contingent settlement because it's up to this Commission of course nobody has spoken for the commission uh so if you vote to approve it the case will will end uh we'll get a general release that specifically denies any responsibility or liability and if the commission rejects it then we'll get back on the trial calendar so after carefully weighing uh the evidence the witnesses uh and you know we are very comfortable that the city did nothing wrong um this would be one of those business decisions where the risk of an adverse outcome uh with a much more significant judgment than the negotiated settlement agreement on balance wage this is just a little bit more than nuisance value uh so on balance uh it's my recommendation and that of your insurance carrier that the commission approve the settlement of course I'll answer any question that I can um if any of the Commissioners or the mayor have any questions he answered all my questions the other day during our conversation so I don't have any questions as of now okay any other questions no I didn't have any questions no thanks for oh thanks for the much Jamie did you have any questions no ma'am that's our consent agenda uh moving on to agenda item number 12 final reading of ordinance 1171 V in the city Co related to animals um and hearing back from uh staff T faral last meeting we had uh citizen that was concerned about the layout yes in the cohesion and the explanation only to come back and say hey it's not an issue not a problem so um there have been no suggested changes to um the particular codes um my suggestion would be to anyone tell them to call the city that that's the simple suggestion is to um is to call the city because you don't want to get into um the parentheses where it says this code was changed see this code that code um and not necessarily this code but some of the other codes as well that might have been updated in um you know Min a code but maybe not updated in what we're actually looking at so uh I would always suggest you know if you're getting into to code reading U certainly read it interpret it but then always you know check with city manager um and then they can get with staff on how those codes are actually applicable at this time so um anything else from you on this any for this one all right any other questions or suggestions or changes you would like to make before we U do our final reading on this on there I can understand how if a citizen went to look I mean it's a lot of information it's very wordy but you have to do that to cover all the aspects and you know to make sure yeah you get everything in there but I mean it is it is labeled you know and it's yeah mean just have to kind of follow it they're they're actually easier than trying to read Florida State Statute oh go or find it in munico yeah that's what i' recommend call so thank you City attorney staff for and and commission for your input on this working this up so um that's that's great uh first reading of the petition for contraction this particular parcel um any questions for Amanda on this one so do we have any idea how much extra it cost this person to hook up to water and Sewer I have no idea how much it cost people to get water and sewer I don't know if Chris can answer that on this contraction one have we got any idea how much more what it would cost him to extend he's actually the county from what Chris said the county water is actually further away than our water you yeah so we've got a map I reached out to the county to find out if they were any closer and it would be a benefit for this parcel to DNX and their utilities are further away um actually than our utilities so a good price to use for a water extension a 6in water extension is about $150 a foot um according to the gis it was about 840 ft he would have to run one way or about 200 ft through his own property for another way it's actually in your packet I think the two didn't you just find it but those and then there's a couple different options for the sewer um depending on what they want to the cities and then the one behind it is the county where the C and so it depends on what they want to construct on that parcel um depending on you know what kind of sewer they could use um but if it was like just a single family home or even if it was you know multi homes on that parcel they could do a low pressure system with the grinder stations and pump down the road much cheaper than gravity sewer so I mean yes it's going to cost them several thousand um but it's not really say so is he not really saving any money by going and Dean into the county he would not save any money utilitywise um and matter of fact they only have up right matter of fact they only have a 2-in force main on um what's that sarota on the other side so they wouldn't have adequate sewer for him anyway um you you have to have a septic tank or something yes which he's likely not to get permitted through the health department because he's close enough to sewer that he would have to run and tie into the sewer anyway so the Health Department's not just going to give him a permit to put a septic tank in if there's sewer readily available and it's just as readily available as a septic tank from the construction he would do it said it was 6.6 Acres but how much is build the smaller parcel that you see is 1 point something acres some of that has low density residential on it a lot of that is also conservation so he shouldn't be building on it we wouldn't allow him to build on it um so basically where he has his metal building um and a space for a bit of parking but if he wanted to put a business on there because of the parking that he would require and everything I doubt very much that he would have enough space he initially came to us wanting to change the land use to mix juice and we told him that we didn't think that was something that would be able to be done because it is not big enough to accommodate a mixed juuse project any other questions on number 13 hatched area what deter and uh number 14 city manager regarding the naming of the chamber or yeah in my table talk as where we get a lot of our good ideas and suggestions and one of the suggestions that came from TBL talk um that we had not named anything after a former mayor who served for over 25 years and and really I had not thought of that until um the resident brought it up and said you know we really should think about doing that uh and serve and serve well um and they asked about U maybe naming the chamber after him how many years was he thereor 25 years did you say that and I just miss sorry fell asleep for second before mayor he was also commissioner as well I believe before being mayor I was I know we've had some citizens after as we're doing the rebuilding um there were some citizens that as about you know ball fields and things like that they but those are already named um prior to Hurricane Michael so we couldn't go back and rename those um so it is something that's been brought up several times about um naming naming something after May Walter Kelly and you know he he stays engaged uh with our city um and keeps up with uh what we're doing and you know beli we're doing a good job in uh keeping things moving forward so uh any further discussion on that one any objections further suggestions good idea all right well today we have uh few things to discuss one we want we want to start with our uh chapter 26 for the code of ordinances so we're finishing our animal chapter when looking at chapter 26 um with that some are saying that's a big jump from 10 to 26 um some of the chapters in between are like the building code and such which we did get a chance to review when we did thec or have had some input on that already through the Inc so thought that environment will be a good one for us to uh for us to start looking at and And discussing again no decisions are being made on on this right now just discussion discussion input and then of course Amy being able to tell us what we we can and can't do you know the latest statutes of what we can and can't change expectations and things like that so um are there any preliminary thoughts you had a chance to look over this a little bit trying and we Tred to get this High little to you a little bit earlier this week that way you could have a chance to review it before actual pre- agenda came out on yesterday and the two um people that or if you have questions and they they've actually already gone through it made some suggestions as well is our building official Charles Charles van and chief of police chief only thing I kind of um saw from first glance was the the right of Entry um I don't know if you want to rewrite that to kind of coincide with what we got written in the ipmc what page is that on uh it's 26-37 page seven of 18 or 109 what page number you're looking at okay got it you see at the top there those were my thoughts too about making sure that this coincides with the yeah Charles good morning good sir um didn't hear the question does it coincide with the uh yes it does actually it goes a little bit further gives guidance to the officers to of procedures how to do things so it it goes in very well with the the international property maintenance code because it's very specific like grass can only be a foot correct is that I don't remember what we said in the so I guess we're saying that we just want the two things to mirror yeah it it should yes it it is it should mirror yes um and if and if it don't we can you know if there's any questions we could definitely go back and research it and and change what we need to change or make recommendations they make reference to an inspector and then a building official are those the same people that typically they're they're not in this case they're not um so what we uh the police chief and I recommended we're going to we would like that to be changed to say code enforcement officer instead inspector so that elivate the the confusion of that okay or code official uh because the code official language is into the property maintenance code and I guess maybe before the next meeting if you all have a chance just give us the updates that you all are suggesting yes sir for us to review um I'll send that out to you see if we can get that that will help us as we're actually looking through maybe double over or may answer some of the questions that we have about some of the things that we see so we can we can get those suggestions in one section it says Bay or Washington County um I've read that also but I can't remember what reference to what what does that entire line say giving information to a local agent about renting renting something years and years and years ago I believe before we became we did fall under Washington County I wonder that's language from back then 1920 it is it must be old language so we can you could do a strike through on that one that's 2628 good catch I have a few things uh I think at the very beginning when it's talking about the definitions I think that uh I know that the it's of my opinion that these ordinances should the main reason is to show what we can and can't do but I also think it should be used as something that the citizens can read and understand what they can and can't do and I believe the term refuse when we're talking about leavings drgs rubbish trash and all that that's kind of an outdated term we don't really use that in today's language that is in the property maintenance code um it's just a it's just a language that uh universally people use I would say universally maybe people that write policies use correct these are these are written uh somewhat by attorneys but it's also written by code officials as myself all right well if it matches the property maintenance code they we want to create more confusion so um I just have two small suggestions but beyond that uh when we talk about the sound um should we maybe put a reference to the new state ordinance about the noise coming from Vehicles just so that we can just add a section yeah but I mean like just in case like if someone I mean you guys know obviously but I'm saying like uh like as me as a citizen if I was to just look through the LM Haven ordinances real quick is that Amy's taking notes so we got a note okay the the very bottom section that talks about noise just anywhere in there what's the I'm saying what's the section number she's taking notes to she's going to be the one help us updated as okay so is it 2631 or 26 any anywhere anywhere under Article 4 which is noise because there's not a reference in there at all but there's uh I guess it would probably fall under Section 26-1 123 okay um I will take a look at it there's at least one order statute regarding um noise coming from vehicles that deed unconstitutional and it's not enforcable so I'll let me look at it yeah definitely before I um yeah I do I also have some recommendations about changes I'd like to see in your noise code but I'll put them in writing and them to you okay cool and then one other thing this is kind of a small thing but on for us it' be page 107 of the Bold so or I guess for us I mean this packet hold up real quick okay yeah it's talking about the section 26-33 um talking about the the height of weeds and uh underbrush at 12 in I think it should be a little bit higher than that um just as an example Bea grass could be considered weeds or underbrush and it be grass can grow up to 30 in um and the average height is around 19 in so if I really wanted to I could theoretically create an issue if I don't if my neighbor has be grass in the yard and I'm mad at them I can call code enforce on I may call code enforcement on they might not enforce it but we could prevent all of that confusion from happening just to raise it a few inches provin seems a bit low it's it's part of the property maintenance code on that reason why you want to keep it no higher than that is you you allow snakes rodents everything getting in those tall grasses if there just weeds going one going one I guess uh one stem and somebody makes a complaint the code enforcement officer will evaluate that to see if it's determined to be valid and that's Case by case basis but you definitely want to keep at 12 in because uh these codes are written from experiences from the past so uh they know that with 12 in you can get rodents bugs uh snakes what whatever you don't want in there I take it from experience i' I've I've you know seen all kinds of stuff in tall weeds and that's that's the reason for those uh limits for those weeds and I think you know as is to to your point as well I think it would just be you know an overgrown area where the whole yard you know is 12 in maybe not a patch or two which again say we got a a nasty neighbor they can still call about that but you know if it's just seem like it's being der and neglected then that could be you know the issue because we do have individuals that call and we do say hey I I have snakes coming out my neighbor's yard or rats coming out my neighbor's yard and so if we said was 18 inches now now the neighbor has another 6 in before they have to cut it they may not cut it just because they want to spite their other neighbor so so yeah yeah I guess my main concern is that it still leaves a bunch of subjectivity you know like you said it it we it may we're probably just talking about the entire yard instead of just patches which I agree that any logical thinker would be thinking like you're thinking but that doesn't I mean we can potentially better Define what that looks like I say yes my initial suggestion would be any parcel in which 50% or more of the pervious land is has underbrush or weeds that are exceeded a foot if that would address situation yeah I I think something like that would be good yeah that would that would address all my concerns with that because like yeah it was just like a patch of something that was 16 in I feel like wasting our code enforcement's time going out there to look at that would be kind of ridiculous you know any other uh initial input on this for staff for City attorney well I thought it was interesting placement of refuse refute refuse yeah um not in the street well that's where we put ours you know the trash pickup comes and we have a pile yeah it's on the street but it's by inside the house that's where all the neighbors put there just comment so come arrest me I think the the point of that though is not where it's in the street that's in the rway up against the street that we have a lot there's a a home over on um 13th Street over here that has a beautiful front yard look like a golf course and so they put all their yard debris on the storm so we're constantly having to go through the stor and I've been there multiple times I totally get they don't want our claw digging a hole in their yard yeah um but the point is not to put it in the street or in the curb of gter to put it just off the street and the right away also technically the right away is not their yard for being honest you don't want the Refuge to be any kind of obstruction to any vehicles or whatever so and it's there temporarily all right uh hey we have a a little more time to discuss this in the next few weeks um as we work through it so continue to review it get input from you know various citizens as they call and such all right uh also uh city manager sent out to you the um comprehensive plan some uh some information from that for us to sort of highlight today as well as we should get some feedback from Miss Amanda in regards to zoning so we can start thinking about some of those things as well so uh take a look at the complain came me your email the uh the complain info there was two areas that we want to look at today one was on housing and one was the infrastructure part of that is because there's going to be updates that have to be made so we're trying to look at what we can actually uh that won't be a part of those updates initially and looking at the housing element we see what the goals are we see the objectives in the particular particular Ty policies there um is anyone concerned about the goals of the this section as you see basically I think the primary goal is just to make sure that um that we're providing you know housing for all income levels um in the city of L Haven and and if you're not aware there is housing for all income levels within this city of L Haven so now sometimes we do get asked whether or not we have a public housing authority here um we do not the public housing authority in the city but we do have low income housing so some of our apartment complexes there I should say income based I'm not going necessarily say low income because you still have to make 30,000 35,000 to live in some of those apartments um but there there are Income base apartments in the city of L Haven try to meet the needs of those um with housing um concerns we have had builders in the past that come or plans have come before us in the past or discussion that are targeting particular income levels for hous for ensuring that they're you know variation of income levels you know within within the housing sector as well so yeah so that's go number one any any concerns about that any feedback um I'm just trying to go through my notes I originally put in here it's been a while um policy 1-3 um says at least once each planning period the city shall review and amend if necessary ordinances Cur regulation fees and permitting process to relax or eliminate unnecessary City requirements that may be barriers to the production affordable housing and I just I had a note here asked when is a planning period And when was the last one done I remers me and done when we talk about um one through uh policy 1-3 affordable housing I know you look at that often and he was saying when has the last planning process for looking at uh if there are any barriers uh for affordable housing that's I think when they just when they talk about and Amy can correct me if I'm wrong when they're talking about planning periods it says planning periods as identified in the comp plan so we have to do the ear every seven years I'm assuming that it's the every sevene period period okay so we're we haven't done it in seven years well the state requires you to do it at least once every seven years you can do ity for us we haven't done it this is our first time looking at the comp plan so I was responding to commission award we haven't done it in seven years it's been the last time it's Beenie we don't always so we're required to look at the comp plan every seven years but when it was last looked seven years ago it's actually going to be eight years ago um it was a determination the determination was made by the city manager that we didn't at that point we updated the things we had to update so we don't have to update everything every seven years we're supposed to evaluate it every seven years and make a decision so yeah that hasn't been long time she's talking about the former yeah for got it got it um next one I had under 2-2 the city shall annually viiew and revise is necessary program for the elimination demolition of structure that pose a threat to Public Safety Health and Welfare I just had a question here one was the last one done so you updated remember Cole updated the code enforcement in terms of how we go about um uh eliminating or or demolishing structures I think we redid our um batement process and um how we take down house Sy cold enforcement so we we've done that already yes when the last one was done um I think it may have been what two years ago yeah I think it was on um Michigan and in uh 11th yeah might have been that whole house right there didn't we pass a new ordinance in terms of how we de uh demo uh wouldn't that been like the last one that we actually yeah but he wants to know when's the last time we updated the according to this it says annually the city shall annually review and revise the necessary program for the elimination demolition of structures that pose a threat to Public Safety Health and Welfare Oh I thought you about to talk about the last incident when the last about when the program was re reviewed reviewed so you guys did a really good job that I think it was probably right after that yeah you did about two years ago and we changed the fee schedule there used to be we would put a lean on the property uh whenever we would demolish something and we changed this to actually put it on the tax the tax is owed on the property because the lean would only be satisfied whenever the property will would be transferred and uh you know as part of a transaction so if it hasn't been updated in two years and got look at it update it I sh I will also share too program isn't necessarily the process the program may be the prior the inventory of properties that have been sort of uh noted by code enforcement officers and then prioritized for the coming year to resolve or date so so so we look at our so we look at our ordinance every year to see if it's because that that's the one I think that Cole rewrote that and I don't think your process is broken and requires an annual riew I do think your program in terms of where your code enforcement officers are spending their time and money to actually initiate and enforce an abatement action that is your program so this year we know that we have I don't know if there are 10 houses that you think need to be demolished but the budget only allows maybe for the city to take on the demolition of two or three um your program for that year would be to set those priorities that's how I understand your annual program to be your demolition orance statement prior and so if that's the case then at budget time we do um the chief will come in and um I think the code enforcement has done a really great job and say you know we just about gotten all all of those de Li houses down so that's when we would talk about how many do we think uh that we looked at that's up to you I think it organically happens but that's what I can no that's exactly what that's the process how we get there yeah so so based on that when the last time it does I'm just reading what it says in the comp plan so that would have been this yeah oh yeah definitely so so as I'm understanding the last time that was done was when we when we were preparing the budget for this year then there the last time correct a review orre revisement of that particular program was done correct okay and then the next thing I had it's uh under objective four it says throughout the planning Peri per the city shall allow sites for mobile home parks and manufactured homes and review proposed sites on an individual basis and is that objective four and I just had a question here if this includes tiny homes because I know that seems to be something that's been kind of popular throughout the nation and probably want to um get ahead of that before I think it's impossible to build tiny homes because of the width that we require I think the home has to be a minimum of 31 feet 30 31 is it 33 feet wide 33t wide um yeah um it's narrowest point however you know people who build accessory dwellings um in their yards in their side or rear yards they have certain criteria such as can't be more than 50% of the size of the house they have to meet their own setbacks for accessory structures but they often are obviously smaller because they're accessory dwellings um and we do still have properties that have a land use on that allows for um a mobile a mobile home park um but they have criteria that they have to meet now it's not like it was kind of back in the old days but when it comes to just an individual mobile home on a lot they have to meet the 33t W anything on a individual lot has to be 33 ft wide is an arrow as Point okay uh [Music] um and then 5-4 it says annually update inventories of providers of special needs housings groups and Foster homes facilities for the homeless Etc including number of locations I'm just wondering when was the last time that one was done we we don't keep we don't maintain an inventory the last time we issued a development order for a group home um well actually we don't have to issue development orders for group home because the criteria for a group home is that it looks to all intents and purposes and behaves as a single family home so there's a limit on the number of people that can be in it which I think is eight um and the Ark um recently had one or two that they um asked to construct and I don't know if they actually ever pulled permits for but they did come to me to see whether they were allowed to do it on the property and I said yes so I don't feel that we have a lot of them but I wouldn't know in the planning department I don't keep an inventory but they would have to pull building permits but they're supposed to operate as a single family home so is that may we a to update the comp plan to not do an annual yeah I don't know if that's something that has to be in there and that you can remove or I'm just kind of curious why they hav been there in the first place I can find out I I do not know well and I guess the question is is there someone that that does keep up with that because we do get questions about it do we I do I do have people that called and say hey is there somewhere to there there is a new forign law that allows um for specially needs registry with the police department and I know here in Bay County the the sheriff has taken that very seriously so I don't know what that means for your comp plan there are some laws out there that address and check that box not necessarily for the city but I can I can look into it okay I I didn't hear the question so basically it is hard to hear the question is uh or as I would see it is there anyone maintaining an inventory of the providers of special needs housing Inland Haven like group homes foster homes facilities for the homeless is there an inventory that we have on record for that cuz our comp plan says we should do that but we're so is there any well if for license facilities uh the city fire marshal would have that because he would have to do annual inspections okay um but I I that would be a question for that for Ron got it so that that's the fire department that and then of course you can go to the state level and find out what facilities that they have listed right and I guess our question is because it's in the comp plan have we have we been doing that and whether or not we want to keep it in the comp plan to do that and I I was going to ask commissioner Ward that with your all great questions if we decide and you decide this is something we don't do or we don't need to do um is this something where you will decide why don't we just take this out because this really doesn't apply to the city I mean I see where he's he's going in terms of if it's something we don't need to do or uh you know it needs to be update like the demolition of houses every budget year we could add that word in there because that's when we do it whether or not we would have that inventory so I definitely see where he's going and you know if we don't do these things we need to take them out M do you need to take or does need to or it's a compl it's you you pick and choose what you what you what you enforce I mean that's or does it it's a it's a it's a high level view of things do we actually request local agencies to report um the uh the um the stuff on the Aging that's in 5.3 you know uh the the right right right below what he was just above what he was just talking about and I just lost my damn place that's a good one too man you know what I mean it's it's right there it says request local agencies such as the arc for the United States and the Council on Aging to provide estimates of the unmet needs of housing of the populations of which um they serve and coordinate with those would that be as needed face right it's something something that you know if if the if I mean we have we have a senior center used to be the Council on Aging ran it but did we get a report every year from the Council on Aging about the the population of the age that you know are underserved I mean no but do we you know it's in the comp plan do we want to take it out I don't think you want to take something out like that because it serves the greater good you know so I guess it would then be if it's in the comp plan and we're not doing it that's shame on us you know well I and I think that's kind of what I'm I'm getting at with this is there's a lot of things I'm finding in here I'm like I don't know if we do that or not or if it needs to be in here or do we need to modify it but in all fairness if you haven't modified a comp play for 14 years there's a lot of things that are probably stale and maybe they're not necessary anymore and that's why they're not being enforced or they're not relevant to the way your community has grown there's a lot of possibilities and when the way we run our communities as well so if we needed that information we go to the and ask we if we needed information on seniors would we go to C par or any of these places and ask for it absolutely but do we request it every year no because so much stuff is already gathered for us the demographics of our city they're already gathered for us that we have that information so you're you're right again I I just we don't do it and it's already read readily available and and this one doesn't necessarily give a to commissioner perno's point it doesn't give a particular time frame it's just saying do we do it's something that we should do when it's needed need need to be done oh you talking about the one that he brought up right 53 doesn't give a time frame so it doesn't say we have to do it every year so to his point I don't think we have to take that out right um because it's not you have to do this annually or or anything of that nature but as needed and that's a those would be the agencies we could reach out to to correct to talk about that um I guess now back to anything that's commissioner per right back to number 54 commissioner Ward any any specific thought of direction that you want to see with that one I mean I don't know I'm just trying to figure out why it's in here and there there had have been a reason why they put it in here I'm just not sure also say that we we um we don't provide public housing a lot of the things that go into housing elements are um communities that do have public housing programs um or have public private Partnerships um we do have people that are developing senior housing in the city um I feel like it would be very difficult for us to go and find out what a what kind of need you know who is underserved um and again there are state agencies that are gathering that equip that kind of information I feel like they share that with the municipalities and counties who have public housing programs but I think here would say if a person may not need to be in there right but if a person comes and says hey do you have a I have pastors that call and say Hey or I'm May lady at the gas station who sleep in her car and says hey I'm homeless is there somewhere in Haven where I can live because they assume that we know where the homeless shelter is so I think that's I understand what you're saying about the public housing but I think this I have to keep it or not keep it but this isn't public housing as much as is there a homeless shelter or if if there's someone who's suffering from um you know physical abuse at home where do we send them and see we know all of that and I see what you're saying we know all that stuff in our heads so that's not something that so I think it would be good if we put it on paper if we do know it um we it's already out there that's what I'm saying it's already out there and these agencies I mean to me I interpret that annually probably throws everyone off uh are just saying instead of us because it said it sounds like then we need to do that when it's already out there or it probably may say um having access um um to information uh for C I don't know so where do we go to get this information I guess would be the question yeah I think let me ask this if you don't mind is I remember we talked about this before and I know this is something commissioner per wants talk about is where we used to have where we had zones in in the city and then at one point they changed it where local um land use codes right when did that when did that what was that date you remember when that happened was it here um I think it was around 2000 perhaps that that happened um we used to have zoning when was it sorry commission when was it commission said 2006 so we used to yeah used to have it and then we got rid of it reason I was asking I was wondering if this was like part of that if we were when they initially did this right maybe it was because they were using the zone maps and and and they're trying to figure out what are the unmet needs for the city so they can kind of figure out what Zon I don't know no I'm so as a commission do we want to keep this in do we want to strike it I don't know I'm just trying to figure out what the purpose of it another staff member give me someone else help stff keep all this updated all right so do we want to have an an inventory of special needs housing I just don't I don't see the benefit of it but I might be missing something here am I missing no we can strike policy 54 and then the last thing I had for this section was policy 6-3 says Pro educational program sent us for families learn how to maintain improve their homes and neighborhoods just wondering what programs that we have done you have Pro Ben has programs and we used to also I don't think we've done it in the last couple of years but we also used to put information out annually on like paint it fix up like information on Home Maintenance right yeah yeah he still does that he has the P that city as as some programs didn't says uh promote educational programs and incentives for families to learn how to maintain and improve their homes and neighborhoods oh yeah I mean we have the paint program for the CRA and the 1911 plan for sure that's going on right now those are incen correct yeah in the past we had a a paint up fix up cleanup month and so we would have a list of activities throughout the city whether it's a a park cleanup or a um Garden or front yard of the month um and that was um that would be was like a public meeting where we would kind of showcase everything if you made some improvements I want to think kind went out not in the newsletter but we got that information out something else okay that was all I have for that section than this is I have a question yes ma' okay this is supposed to be for the public to read our citizens well it uses acronyms and so like ship there's probably a definition section of the very top of your F plan that identifies and defines home it's probably I think the way this is set up is like the first time they use it they probably spell it out and then the rest of it also possible I didn't get this document so I haven't receiv should I'm sorry I'm going blind but you're probably right it is and I guess there something we can check just to make sure that it does have those definitions I think I think what it does I have to go back and look but like the first time they use it they spell it out and they show you the acronym and then the rest of the document they just use the acronym okay any other input and not that we can't come back and review this again um this is just the part we're highlighting today any other input on this one this section all right we can look at our next section the infrastructure d gold to the gold two section there's a bunch of like dates in there like the rehabilitation program initiated by the end of 2001 and things need to be up to the 2005 standard and things like that so we may want to go in and just rather than putting an actual year just say like up to the current standard or something like that so that we don't have to constantly go back every single year and change the date that's something I do with that work that I absolutely hate just wasted time where's this atout there refences to or things Milestone you can put you can replace that with the then current standard standard then in fact that'll be page 32 through 35 on that document thank you all right um any other suggestions on this one the policy 1-3 I know I know we had changed our y storm water to 100e storm I don't know if that's talking in Reverse or not it says 25 here and that's under gold number one page 31 policy 1-3 yeah um I don't know whether that's a minimum or a maximum thing think it's a minimum on uh 1-1 it's got that table there and uh I'm just trying to understand what that table's trying to tell me and if this is the level of service we're supposed to be at today yeah so hold on before we jump to that one so 1-3 are you saying we just need to update that to the 100 year that's needs to be updated yeah Sor right so we'll update that to the 100 year so so a Manda um she's going to be making those kinds of changes tabl making sure that kind of thing is up today yes okay and mayor before you go on Amanda you may want to let the commission know some of those things that you've sent out to other departments that you're they're going to update you have to update that you're working on right now so um with our update we have to forecast out two planning periods we have to do a 10e and a 20- year so I'm starting it from 2025 see as how it's 2025 January is 2025 that we'll be sending it to them December or January so I had to calculate the population I had to look at the uh population estimates and projections to determine basically a low and a High um for the projected population going out 10 years and 20 years and for all the level of service stuff so all of our facilities um like water sewer Solid Waste those kinds of things um Chris is going to have to and Bobby are going to have to put tables in for casting out what the demands will be with using those population projections so they're going to have to do a 10 year period and then going on another 20 year so it'll be it'll be up to 245 so all the tables that you see in there are way outdated in fact one of the tables that's in there we did actually update um but we did it via ordinance um rather than actually changing it out and sending them the whole of the comp plan um so that took us up I think to 2025 maybe some of the stuff in there but yeah just so that you know um when you see it in December or whenever you see it all the tables and anything related to level of service will have been updated and projected out for 20 years so this one here you're talking about yeah that will definitely be looked at if that's still the case then service then that'll stay but if not they they will change that okay thank you all right that does that answer your question on one1 commission 113 um any other comments on the uh element most of the stuff I have in here is um well the next three things is like was this done when was the last time it was done I I think that's the type of stuff we need to look at you know like this one part says City shall prepare annual summaries of capacity demand information City shall maintain will maintain a 5year schedule Capital Improvement needs for public facilities that stud and then there's one about a study um study shall be completed in the rehabilitated program initi by the end of 2001 I guess this I guess in the past has there been a way to communicate with the commission based on the comp plan what has been done according to the comp plan or is that something that's CU from from what commissioner work is pointing out we're doing it but then as a commission we're not aware of it and so is there a way to you know communicate hey these are the the things that we that we're doing or once we finish the comp plan hey this is a chick list of things that have to be done or something like that so that so that can be communicated we could do that if that will be easier because she's updating some things some of this is going to be updated because it has to be um required and so if you want to for for for us to bring that say probably December November December her her changes and then you can see what's going to the state so you don't spend your time saying you know has this been done and then we can move on to something else that may be um easier in that sense because um the requirements I know Amanda knows and so we want to get all of those things done because we have to send those to the state and and a lot of what is in the com plan informs the ulc so a lot of the stuff that's in there is they're things that we just do on a daily basis as part of our job you know it kind of falls into what we do now there are some things in there that are outdated and there are some things in there that I've never known to be done um but there's also things in there that that you can take out because they're not required some of the things are required to be in there but some of the things somebody put in there at some point in time to meet some requirement maybe or just they wanted to and it doesn't need to be in in there so what needs to be in there is the stuff the statutes say needs to be in there so then I guess you be able to sort through that's what I'm doing and I guess to commissioner work Point get this in there and we and we're not doing it is there a reason we haven't been doing it um probably maybe because some stuff's put in there because we have to but people don't want to like ensuring that there's housing available for we're supposed to make make sure that we focus on the very low income but then when a development comes up for low income housing the the commission not you guys but the commission because of public opinion have not wanted to approve it for one reason or another um so sometimes there is stuff in there that we've had to put in there but I believe there's really never really been an intent to follow through on it's just we have to have it in the document okay any other questions or input on the infrastructure sure I yeah I you so on let's see what goal that would be it'd be page 34 um policy 3-3 it says discourage the sale of irrigation meters wouldn't we just want we don't allow we have to they have to use our irrigation meters right no their irrigation meters are installed by their um their no no the irrig meters are ours oh the meters sorry sorry yes all meters are ours we don't accept any anything else may update to say because this implies that you can buy them but we just don't want you to but I think what you're we're trying to say is no you have to use the yeah there's no no other way around it so it's required yeah so maybe update it to say or yeah or strike it so it can be strien and then uh this one might be a bit controversial sorry but the on the very last page it says the city will ensure the major and minor drainage systems are inspected and receive required maintenance on at least an annual basis I think that uh that's kind of impossible there's no way you're inspecting every single ditch so it is I mean we we definitely need to leave that in there yes it is almost impossible to inspect every inant every covert and every ditch and but we do need to leave that in there just for our purposes um and it will give me a little bit of ground stand on next budget ask for more that's right yeah yeah because there's about that that's right this is aspirational keep in mind too all goals foras and it's interesting because up until what two years ago that had not in terms of cleaning ditches and pipes and cobs and stuff that was not put in place or three years ago so yeah we definitely need to keep it in um and policy 3-2 it says during times the drought the city should restrict derogation between 5:00 a.m. 11: p.m. thereby conserving the pable Water Resources I know I brought this up before but um I'd like this is kind of my vision is like whenever we have new developments like it's not a new development but like hammock is a good example where I guess they used to have a valve that was connected to their their storm water retention Pond and they use that for watering their yards and to me I would like to kind of push developers to do that because we have had problems with um what do you call it um reused water let me check with Northwest Florida Water Management I'm not sure if that's legally able to be permitted when they construct the storm water ponds um I don't know if you can pull water out of it like that let me check with them and verify what the the rules are cuz that was put in actually I think Bobby put that in when back when he worked there developed um and they they used that pond right they used the pond to to irrigate the the side that was there but I'm not sure if you can legally design it to do that so before we put it in there let me check the Water Management District and make sure that's okay all right thank you awesome well we'll put a pen in the comprehensive plan for now again um even with those two sections we can always come back and and chat about those um at the next meeting as we move on through that uh this time we're going to have a brief presentation from Miss Amanda regarding discussing on Zone yeah it's it's 9:00 so got to be brief um on uh on on zoning the highlights of it don't need I wasn't really going to do a presentation I was just going to give you some handouts that's I'm sorry that's what I mean my presentation is not anything up there but you're you're still presenting something to us okay Amanda would you while you're talking pass them all out and then that way we promise we won't be like school kids and look over them before you get okay now this map that you're getting no one's one is got all these colors okay that's it now wait wait you got three Ms yeah I only got two M how you get two all right well I'll come back around with have think gra it me when I was doing job here are extras okay got other that one they're on the way they're on the way yeah that's a different one that's a different one okay yeah okay stries one one stri thank you okay so um because you want it to be brief the first hand out is um just explaining what zoning laws are so um I believe if you want to you can just take that and read that through at your leisure um but I am going to go through some main points and then briefly talk about the map so that you know what you're looking at when you look at it later the the first first thing that uh the first question that I think perhaps you might want addressed is who would be impacted if you went to a zoning map we still would keep the future land use map so what you've got there um are a uh there's a map showing you municiple boundaries for an area and then there's a future land use map and then a zoning map so actually yeah it might be so you can the key down here it'll say Municipal boundaries or it'll say the blue yeah the blue one is and like the reason I printed that out is because I wanted you to see when you look at these other maps that there are areas here on this map that that are actually Bay County you know how we have areas even along 77 that are in the city in the county in the city in the county so this is basically Highway um 22 on Callaway you've got a bit of Tindle Parkway and then you've got Highway 22 and you can see to the North and the South of Highway 22 there's quite a lot of County um and then on your land use map it will say on the left hand side at the bottom future land use it's the less colorful one the less busy one yeah um you'll be able to see I just want to point an area out to you if you look on your future L use map if you look um at the bottom of the map in the middle there there's some this let me show you here on your L use map that one this is your L use M okay you will see at the bottom you see this yellow area here and you see that there's some water in the middle and then there's that yellow area if you look at the next map the zoning map you'll see that that area is green you see that M okay that's because on your future land use map it's low density residential all we have in Lin Haven is a future land use map so we've got low density residual medium density high density mixed juice commercial industrial and so forth they if you have a zoning map you still have to have that L use map because that's the one that state controlled a zoning map is local control so you if you decided you wanted to go to a zoning map we would have to map out the entire city determining which zone you want but it would have to coordinate with the future land use map okay um and in in this instance in low density residential you are allowed to have different zones so the reason that this is green if you look at down at your key shows that it's residential R8 and the key is on on the bottom and R8 means that the minimum R means residential and the eight means that the minimum size for that lock has to be 8,000 square ft so under low density residential you can have have green you could have yellow you could have orange they're all going to be low density residential but one is going to be R8 one's going to be R9 one's going to be r10 so all these different colors on here represent different zones and so if you are going to a zoning map you look we would look at what are land juices because we can go against that because that has the number of dwelling units per acre Etc that's allowed and then we would look at um we look at the city and we would determine okay which areas do we want smaller Parcels which areas do we want larger parcels and we could we code them map into zones according to um how big the parcels we want the same with the um if you look on the future land use m in this area here where 22 meet meets Tindle there's all that pale pink color which is commercial no actually it's mixed use on the future lears map but if you look on the zoning map they have that as commercial some of it so some of it will be commercial and some of it could be um could be residential like high density residential or something like apartments or something so that's the difference just very briefly and we can go over it again in more depth if you want to May at some point yes but that is briefly the difference between the maps and now read through your again I do want to go through these um questions here so who would be impacted if you went to zoning who would be impacted everybody would be impacted they may not realize they're impacted at the time but new development and Redevelopment would find out very quickly that they were impacted so that's something that you will uh need to bear in mind how will they be impacted they may already you know they're going to own property um they may already own property that's vacant let's say but thought they could do something particular with like some kind of like under right now under commercial they can do any of those things that we have listed under commercial right if we go to zoning there's going to be different types of commercial so you could have people that have been sitting on property expecting that they're going to be able to just advertise it for sale um or do something with it in particular themselves if we go to zoning they may then find that they can't do what they wanted to do get who they're going to get mad with right that is a real legal threat and something we'll have to really pay attention to there are variances though well it's not this isn't a variance situation this is essentially when they're going from the sky is the limit to now I can only put a 10,000 sare foot building where before I could do anything um to eliminate the legal risk of a taking um because this is a regulatory taking essentially when you're they can do anything with their property and now they can only do five very really specific things so if you have a grandfathering is going to be ke that's what I was going to ask so but paying attention to the current land uses and in particular you're vacantly you grandfather in because we already we just have a General commercial so on vacant you know there's a Bert Harris liability because if they have a reasonable investment backed expectation that the sky was the limit I could do anything on this vacant commercial property that I bought and I intend they have evidence that they intended to build this one thing that you have now reason own that prevents them from doing that thing but they've spent the money they've got the renderings they've got the design plans the site plans now they can't that that's a problem I think we could well I don't know if we can that that would be for you answer if we could grandfather that and then it would change to if they sell that property to someone else there are a couple different mechanisms but we have to be we'll have to pay attention to those if you go this route yeah that the new owner would then have to you lose your grandfathering upon certain triggers whether it's time a change in title A change in use there are several triggers we can list but we will have to be very careful with this so right now um for instance um if they're in property the um I was going to say the push back do you remember when we were talking about changing the rear step back on Commercial properties yes remember the kickback you got people that were mad about that and that was just talking about adjusting the rear setback so just to have an idea of you know when we kind of did the CR overlay yes yes so will people be grandfathered in right now um people would be grandfathered in if they had a structure on the property because this is going to affect residential as well if they have a structure on the property but our nonconforming laws right now are people grandp pared in when there's a legal change however if they lose that non-conforming status if it's vacant for six months or if it's damaged by more than 50% or if they want to redevelop it add on to it they can only maintain so that's just something else we have to think about all of those existing structures and their non-conforming status so how would it be beneficial um it would be beneficial in that it designate certain zones for specific types of use so that you could ensure that you're not going to have a tire business next to a restaurant for example because Tire businesses will go in one kind of commercial restaurants would go in a different different type of commercial um and it also specifies the minimum size of building lot in residential Zs whereas right now we don't have that other than in the historic plat so in the historic plat the 1911 plat we say a building lot has to be this size right now other than that all we have is a 33 ft wide for single family home and meeting setbacks but if you had zones you could determine which parts of the city you wanted to have larger lots and which ones you wanted to have smaller Lots and then almost finished um how would it help you to make better decisions because you would know that they have just stuck to the maps right now we do get some kind of gray areas you know um things that are open to interpretation whereas if you had that you're always going to have a few but I feel like there would be a lot less you know people would come we're always getting calls what zone am I in we tell them we don't have Zone um but so people expect us to have zoning especially people from outside that are going to develop here so it would take away some of those gray areas it would be very specific but again that's what's going to make your existing people mad um how will it be implemented we would need to huge task isn't it Amy you'll agree huge huge task um we would have to create maps for the whole city we would have to look to see what the land use and make sure that the zones that you were putting in place didn't um go against what we have said in the future land use map we may have to make some some land use map changes future land use map changes um so there may have to be some adjustments but basically it would be City wise and it would be implemented by ordinance is that right that's correct are there any initial questions on zoning we're going to come back to this but want to get some information get an overview of what zoning is sort of what we can expect before right yeah not since I've been here when I worked before I came here on C [Music] don't do you know what got that doesn't doesn't make complete sense I'll ask any background yeah yeah eliminating Zoning for one property that doesn't make sense at all um there's got to be yeah there got be more story okay now if something got zoned people can apply for zone change right yes uh yes because my my only my only hesitation would be what if we accidentally Zone it wrong you know we make a decision that you know 10 years from now doesn't make sense anymore or the area or the area might be changing where so I will say too that to change your zoning map all of these are qual judicial decisions they're um so when someone asks for a change in zoning you have to make that you have to gather the evidence then make a decision based on the evidence that is presented before you um so sometimes you'll get it wrong and sometimes you'll have an opportunity to do something completely different than what you intended um again it's always based on the evidence that is before you and they might have to change fut where you have to be careful is um where the law doesn't allow spot zoning somebody wants to put a gas station in the middle of the neighborhood right um that there may be a lot of good reasons why that makes sense but if your comp plan doesn't allow it you can't say yes to that um so with the zoning got an overview thank you Mr Man for that great overview um here some of the pros and cons to IT staff is still looking from some for some direction from us do we want to continue to move forward to see what you know Z zoning implementation looks like for us or what what do we want to consider I know that it's going to be the con would obviously be a lot of manh hours but I think I think the pros outweigh the cons I think it's a good thing uh I agree with S I know it's going to be a lot of work for the planning department especially job security I don't think I think we might have to contract oh really okay what you think I me it's it's going to be an expensive Endeavor um if you don't have Capac capacity and consultant may be the best this just me an assistant and we contract with Bay County GIS so that means that everything we decide look at we're have to get GIS involved I guess the first question we can we get an estimate of what how much it might cost for us to do the zoning not that we're not going to try to move forward with it get an estimate of it because it may you know does it work within our budget to do it this year or next year right start some of the work or spit the work up there maybe you know process we can I can certainly start looking at the maps especially with Bobby and Chris um and we can you know because you got to think about like water sewer availability and things like that as well there's all sorts of things that play into it and Roads you know so we can start like looking at the maps and kind of looking to see what we think would go best where um but Chris just told me they only have one person in Bay County G right now as well so they're very understaffed um I think when it comes to putting the map together we can figure out all of us what we think we want to see where and we can certainly bring drafts to you but when it comes to actually doing it the whole map and certainly with the ordinance and all the legal descriptions and everything that would have to be like the attorney's office yeah they Warren calling some of the local engineering firms just to get a sense of how much would it cost for you to help us do this and we can do that um and you may ultimately have to put out station you but to give you a ballp part all right so do everybody good moving forward um finish the work I don't know I'm kind of on the fence with it um I'm almost thinking you know we go through the comp plan and up to the ulc and then look at this because I feel like if we put this in the mix it's just going to complicate things but trying to do it all simultaneously we tried to do that last come to an agreement everybody said let's just do everything at one time a big decision and so that's doing it's hard to it's hard to make changes like this when it's been established for so many years you know I mean I think we all wish we could hit the reset button a lot of things like especially like storm water and things like that and be like all right let's start all over but can't do that and you know the other thing you to think about is like how much vacant property do we have how many properties we have that haven't been developed you know and is it really that many is it really worth it you know I still have a lot more questions and formul an opinion in regards to vacant property I don't know the exact number what I can probably tell you is that when you drive around if it doesn't belong to Bay County it's undeveloped it doesn't belong to us so they're more than likely it's vacant property because we're one of the few cities that don't really own much property in our jurisdiction whereas Panama City would be the opposite most of the vacant property you see in Panama City is probably on by Panama City versus want vac so give you an idea of how much vacant property we have if it's within our jurisdiction we don't own it more than likely so then that would be vacant property and I think it would come back to you know putting those time frames on it like okay hey you know after this change you get a 10-year time period to still be grandfathered into building something if not it needs to be changed you know it have to be changed to the updated zoning or once this property sells that person have to be in compliance with you know with the updated zoning so I do think we can develop some things that could you know be a win-win if we decide to move forward with the the the zoning um I mean I def see benefit in zoning don't get me wrong it's just there's a lot of a lot of things involved you know yeah and I think the I guess the biggest push back we might get would probably be from the commercial aspect of it you know with the Z but we get the push back now you know for example when we had the guy that wanted to uh build onto his he already had a business but he to add more to his business over on Florida Avenue then all the residents from that neighborhood came out and said we don't want that well it said that he could do that cuz it was mix use and he fell within the parameters of being able to do that but we had a lot of residents that come out and say hey we don't that's when he wanted to change the commercial was it or something like that is that the one is that the one that wanted to change the commercial I think he wanted either change to commercial yeah I think he wanted to change to Commercial and everything else was yeah but he could I mean he could already do something anyway but you know we we said no to it so I remember so I think the commercial might be the biggest impact initially to it commercial on Industrial yeah so um yeah in the in the industrial and that I think that would also as you mentioned before the industrial probably help us protect the industrial parts or the you know the industrial partk because that's I know that's been some of the concern with the industrial park has been hey individuals are coming you know businesses are coming in building XYZ or establishing something that may not be so industrial uh well now we can probably through zoning probably better better better protect that yeah and maybe even in zoning you know this will probably help guide the F future annexation as well you know what does that look like for that so and and I do know Dr shapen has gone through a couple of zoning um projects with cities and I probably will reach out to him and um ask his input and if has any um firms that have have done this before um we'll probably do some information Gap it sounds like we city um we need to do some information gathering for you as well so you will be you'll have a lot more information see if y'all could just if y'all could do that and um okay and just if you have any updates by the next meeting on what that and what y'all what Intel you been able to get that' be great we'll put together a committee on that yeah I and I and I just wanted to let you know that kind of what you're doing is very unusual because practically everybody has zoning and Zoning was in place before the future land use maps were and the requirement to have the future land use maps so it it isn't easy for me to find examples of cities that have converted to zoning because they all have zoning already they had it first before the land use maps yeah so we'll get some information and I will say I guess finally the in in of zoning spee I think this will help by developers as well um because they'll be able to look at it specifically know this is what I can do versus these are the 25 things I can do now it's up to the commission to decide what I can and can't do versus saying okay hey this is exactly what you can do you know to the detail on that particular property you know so uh I'll say probably my number one number one complaint I see is stuff that obviously being in the state of Florida right to build you want people to have their right to build but a lot of complaints is why they build this why are they allowing to build it and you're like because they're allowed to I mean like but if we're allowed to if we're able to kind of guide you know I think that'll help a lot and as far as H back to the vacant property a quick way you could see how many we have is the storm the storm water roll you can just pull that Excel Excel spreadsheet filter the vacant land and find it pretty I think we have that number B vacant properties yeah Ben has properties because we've been working with uh Economic Development to see what those properties could possibly Ed as and then encouraging you know contacting owners and giving us some ideas of what they could possibly do with that so um we also thank you all for giving us a little extra time thank you staff for all the hard work and we'll see you Tuesday