calling our pre-commission meeting to order at 8:09 a.m. good to see everyone today look at our consent agenda we have the approval of regular meeting minutes approval to appoint Joe Brown to the infrastructure C tax oversight committee and approval of the 1911 plat residential program application for the 1505 Main Avenue there any concerns about the consent agenda anything to discuss I don't know Joe Brown seen him before I believe he's around all right uh so we'll move forward with that old business discussion and possible approval a resolution regarding the fee schedule any questions for director of Planning and Development on that well there was some confusion about uh fees it was inconsistent alarms alarms was that corrected that was corrected yes yes I think police corrected theirs the one that was like residential commercial was yes residential and Commercial y all right any other questions regarding the feeds you have anything Sam on the uh the fees no I'm good all right in regards to new business we're gonna before we start new business can I say something is it appropriate before we do new business I don't know what you want to say I don't know where which which item you're going to go to I'm actually going to skip 11 and 12 and go to 13 but if you wanted to if it's about 11 and 12 we're going to come back to those it is okay so we're going to if you could wait till we get to those we going to actually go to 13 okay and then come back to 112 all right uh number 13 discussion and possible approval of resolution to amend M your budget direct Finance they haven't worked in this building yet good morning morning um I'm sure question ask you why haveg is coming back to you for second time midg as you might remember I was really back when I brought it to last one I only had a few days to review so I had a longer period of time to revie the numers and I made some adjustments here and there the most significant of which is to the Sewer Department and your attention to that and pl C to par so not exactly sure what we've been informed of there was an emergency at the sewer department spent $772,000 EMP and buy new that incl so that money has been handed to you have questions that I can answer What's the total on that 7 ,000 so the budget's increased by $782,000 a little bit more but we've been seeing it on summary budget summaries month after month after month where has it been where we've been paying the bill we have yes so where has it been has it been hiding this is one project it was the the repair of the pond yeah that was it was a huge oh it wasn't the digging it out that we've been paying for every month the the hauling the sludge out of the pond is what the bills that you have been seeing yeah and then we had $150,000 labor charge associated with getting that out and then we have a $189,000 pond liner repair um the material is on site that they haven't started the repair yet hopefully that will start next week or the week after and that was paid for I don't remember what the original budget was for the Sledge removal but it was paid for that and now we're having to add to the budget to pay the difference and to get us through the end of the fiscal year we're doing it a different way now so our Center fuge is is running um we're working The Kinks out of course that's a 30-y old piece of equipment that we just have rebuilt um we had a service call on it yesterday to try to get our else align um just working through it but yes it is running still having to haul a little bit of liquid just to compensate the difference um and hopefully within the next few weeks we will be all the kings worked out and be on the center Fusion 100% other questions for KiKi or other highlights in regards to the budget adjustments that you need to be aware [Music] of all right anything else thank you number 14 discussion of possible approval to award the contract for construction of can Griffin Lake Construction Services yes this is for the additional parking lot on that parcel that we purchased it'll create 42 parking spaces and three golf cart parking spaces we did have six BS on it so any questions for Baker on that I didn't notice didn't register the timeline for completion 120 days any other questions all right next will be discussion of possible approval to the contract for the construction of the stormboard improvements in the paving of the Senior Center Parking to American sand and asphalt any questions for Mr Baker on that so is any of that getting paid by FEMA Insurance funds or is that all being paid out of out of our none of that's being paid offs okay right any other questions on that all right my understanding is it was going to be bigger scope but it came in far more than what we wanted so we had to narrow the scope down we narrowed the scope but it still involves the the pond that's the biggest thing the expansion of the pond if you look at the drawing that I gave you we bit it with all the parkings in the pond well the pond got expensive but if we do we need to do the pound now and so any future parking will be covered as we do it cuz it's permitted for another four years so we're going to do the pond and the Senior Center parking lot P then as we get the money we can pay the rest of it we're going to extend the parking lot is it paved now in front of the senior center it's crushed oh okay and that is really important that we get that part paid simply because our seniors are going in and out of there that Crush does have a lot of trip hazards to it right so just in front of the building it's going to be paid cor okay but all the store water will be put in for all future parking got it do you have any questions Sam no sir all right any other questions on parking lot storm water so this is just just this has nothing to do with the pond or it going to yeah we'll expand the pond oh so that line Rock parking lot will go away got that'll be the pond and we'll pave in front of the seat okay okay so the front corner Lim lock is going to go away yes so it'll be water up until n 9th Street there correct okay we'll need that parking I mean we'll need some parking cuz whenever we have events that parking lot's packed yes it'll be paid and packed they Park budget for the future Paving oh this this Paving over here yes and this and around shipping but the infrastructure will be in place which is important all right number 16 discussion and possible approval to the contract of 8 Street of BCL civil cont contractors any questions about that one no questions all right I want to say the Minnesota sidewalks it's Iowa Colorado all right and discussion of approval to award the contract for construction of the West 26 Street sidewalk to civil contractors any questions about that one I have many citizens that have contacted me and are excited about that yeah it's a very busy road it is very busy it's cool kids too yeah part of their concern is Mo Mosley this was actually number 17 was actually requested about a resident um two years ago a year and a half ago um and we went out we did kind of an analysis and and it absolutely needed thatall there there's a lot of pedestrian traffic so it's great when citizens request something and we can do it and get it done all right thank you sir right discussion and possible approval of the scope of services in agreement with M McDonald um any questions for director of Public Works and utilities that's just a lot of money I know I know the scope of the job is massive you know from start to finish um I notic I I'll be perfectly honest I didn't have time to read through the whole contract last night I did skim it I noticed that uh in part of it it said a maximum amount of $50 million MH that's scary in itself yeah you know to know that the city's faing a $50 million possibly a $50 million project just wanted to State my concerns any other uh questions regarding that is this 3 million being funded by impact fees what's where's the money coming from it's impact Fe okay all right any other questions all right number 19 will be acquis a Judicial hearing discussion and possible approval request for development order V for Part Town Homes questions about that one uh all right you want yes yes if you could give us overview sure um so this is parcel of land that has three land juices on it um it has mixed juice high density residential and conservation nothing can be developed on the conservation part you don't have to worry about that um they are giving the Wetland setbacks that they need the buffer that they need from the conservation um the mixed juice and the high density residential would allow for them to put potentially 300 multif family units on there but they're actually asking to put 15 54 so it's about half of what they could ask for if they went for apartments or something um we reviewed all the site plans as we usually do make sure that they met all the requirements with regard to storm water and everything else which they do um we also required that they undergo or submit a traffic impact analysis because if you recall that's something that you all said that you wanted now for the big developments you know with the with the traffic issues that we have on the roads so we did contract with um well we sent it to our contracted engineers at kimley horn to review um there the the traffic impact analysis that was submitted to us from their Traffic Engineers and in their submittal they had identified and um as you see um I put in your packet they actually looked at seven intersections and two corridors and um after reviewing their submittal our Engineers agreed with them that the only Improv that they would need but that they did need was an eastbound right turn lane at the intersection of East 26 Street and County Road 389 after we we being our Engineers sent back to them saying yes you know they had a couple of things they wanted them to tweet but they said yes they did need this intersection we then got a further submittal from them saying that they had made a mistake they had put wrong data in there and they didn't believe that they did need the intersection so there's been a lot of back and forth they've submitted four or five different um submitters trying to suggest different things one being a um turn signal but our people said no it doesn't warrant a turn signal it warrants that right turn lane so then it turn so we took it to planning board we had meetings um Vicki setting in the meetings um because you know we're going by standing by our Engineers um and we took it to the Planning Commission um the Planning Commission voted um all but one voted that um they would approve or recommend approval um contingent upon them putting a right turn lane in it's a little bit of do you remember the mil Bayou situation when they wanted to put the apartments in and the second phase we said okay you'd be okay with the second phase along long as that road was at the top so a bit like that there was one uh Planning Commission member who voted against it um purely because he was he didn't agree that we should be bringing something to him until we had already figured all that out but we felt like it was up to you to make the determination um anyway we've since had meetings with the engineer and the issue with the right turn lane it seemed like the major issue was they were saying they didn't feel like they had I think initially it was money but then they were saying that they didn't feel they had enough right of way so Bobby Baker and I and Chris Li foot met with them and um they um asked if they would be able to put an 11t wide turn lane in instead of the usual what is it usually 12 um and our engineers and Bobby and Chris said that they felt that that would be okay on that intersection because people are slowing down for the lights or whatever so um and then we did some research for them um because we would still there was a a light pole an electric pole that's in the right of way that if they did put the right turn lane in would have to be moved somewhere so um we contacted the owner of the property we I Conta contacted the owner of the property because the developer said oh he isn't going to work with us he won't let us have any any room but they had found an easement from the '90s I think where a survey where there was an easement drawn up for that section but it was never recorded so it was never really acted upon so I called the owner to find out if he was still willing to give us that easement because then we could move the light pole on it but he said no um I reported back to the uh our Engineers you know and explained that we can't get this um this piece of land to move the light pole on and he said well really it's up to the engineer the engineer should be calling um Florida light and power and having a discussion with them as to what they can do because there are some places where potentially they could move it we got a so we went ahead and brought this to you because at every stage our engineer is saying they need that right turn lanane because it triggers the the volume triggers uh so it goes above the capacity and um it triggers at about 136 units so they want 15 154 but it triggers it the need about 134 we got an email from them yesterday asking for a meeting the developer because he said in the email they do intend so I don't know if they spoken to Florida light and power but he said we do intend to put the right turn lane in but we would like to meet with you about phasing um so we actually have a meeting with them at 10:30 today um and what I think I'm going to recommend um is that if they are going to put that right turn lane in and they have figured all that out then we can give them a development order for the whole thing a preliminary plat for the whole thing but then when they come to want to sell them the final plant that they bring will be for under that trigger number of the units and so they'll get their final plat for however number that is 135 136 they can build them and sell them but they don't get the final plant approved for the additional units that trigger the need until they've put that right turn lane in so who pays for the road is the developer yes yes so that will be in writing somewhere yes you your the development order when it comes to you the recommendation would be that just like we did with the m are you that you would approve the development order and then when the preliminary plant is next on the agenda same thing with that well the preliminary plant is fine but the development order is contingent upon the final plats um not being approved phase two of the final plant not being approved unless that turn lane has been installed so so then we won't have a so if I'm understanding they won't have to do a right turn lane until the Final Phase yes until they trigger it because they don't need it until they trigger it with that number of units although they may not need it that's going to greatly increase the traffic there if you talking about 134 town homes that's 134 Vehicles more than that it is but they look at they they do their the the traffic impact study looks at all of the intersections um that I mentioned we also talking about real time though I mean I understand the intersections but in real time like for example we did the me byou study but we had to go back out well it's going to increase the traffic but um they use the software programs um there's a level of service and we can't require them to do it unless it triggers that and makes a deficiency and it doesn't create a deficiency on that road and that's why we paid these people all this money to I understand that but I'm just saying in real time what are those 200 Vehicles going to look like in real time it's going to be busy on Minnesota Avenue and we're going to have just like we have with m b we're going to have people back in here upset about the traffic because they may not do the second phase 26 street right they may not and then the next person who puts traffic on that road will have to make the Improvement so I think I think the question is what can we do legally because of property rights can we make it where as soon as the development order is approved that they have to do the right turn line or do that would be up to the attorney and I just want to also mention that when it comes to the meeting on Tuesday our engineer will be here to answer any traffic specific questions that you have I can't I'm not an expert in it but um they were here at the Planning Commission meeting to answer questions and they will definitely be here on Tuesday to answer all of these types of um questions about the traffic I can't I'm not a expert in transportation planning any other questions regarding well this is like halfway up 26th Street right it's near it's near where the trails crosses on the South Side on the South Side I've seen the little the little sign yeah yeah um me my my I travel that area and I I could see you know you got you have you have a little stop sign down Minnesota Avenue is my big concern you're dumping 200 Cars out on Minnesota Avenue coming back you know cuz people want to get to 77 they go up and down the road MH and Minnesota is a small two-lane road that gets you're the four-way stop at Mosley backs up almost all it backs up past 26th Street sometimes all the way to the next four-way stop over there at 20 24 Street you know and that during during uh PE pick up and drop off time of of of the high school MH you and that's when people are getting out to go to work as well you know so you're you're looking at a quagmire over there I I don't know how Engineers can't understand that you know we're we're we're creating more of a nightmare for people well they they just look at the numbers well they don't look at certain hours too you know 8:00 yeah yeah we've been down that road before with stuff so we we going to be good stewards here to I know I know you can't stop someone from developing their land but can require a decent amount of infrastructure before they develop the land is that right that is correct okay can we legally make them do the turn before the trigger point you know you can legally approve your development order with conditions I'm not going to speak to whether or not they are reasonable but you can absolutely do that leg your comp plan allows you to do public private Partnerships so that may also be an opportunity for this commission to negotiate the timing of it to meet y'all's needs about the traffic concerns and balance the developers needs about the phasing um I guess since we're discussing is there so we have the right turn or there other concerns that we might want to discuss with this development order well definitely Minnesota and you know just the sheer number of cars at certain times of the road there that's that'll you know people are going to not everybody's going to migrate up to to 389 they're going to migrate to 77 as well so and and I don't know what the formula the engineers have as far as the dispersement of cars but I guarantee a lot of folks are going to be going that way as well and you're when you're dumping you know so we haven't even mentioned anything about Minnesota and anything you spoke about I see it's highlighted so it's one that they would have analyzed so you can ask him questions specific to that and then he can let you know what they okay it's real like you said real time we've all been there on that road you know if you had to pick up or drop off a student at Mosley so there no shortcuts to there's no shortcuts when you're sitting on Minnesota you're just waiting for people to produce at the fourway stop at Mosley you know all right uh moving on to the discussion of possible approval of the glimmer PL approval met for Park Town Home uh and that would somewhat go back to some of our previous discussion any other question on that one's contingent how large is the conservation area it is um let's see that is that highlighted in green or I've got it on here it's on here there's 6.4 aces of mixed use 11.8 of high density residential is this there is it what color is is conservation which I don't have the info on yeah it's the it's the green it's the green the green on here yeah there's a lot of it there's a lot of wet lines as well which is why when you look at that the bottom piece of development you've kind of got thin road that goes down to those units it's kind of in odd shape the way they're developing it because they have to keep away from the conservation of wetlands swamping all right thank you and discussion and possible approval of resolution for Statewide Mutual Aid agreement attorney um I believe this this process is a little bit different this year because you are direct directly entering a contract with the state it's a former agreement that they're requiring any local government uh to enter if they wish to receive or provide assistance in the event of an emergency um historically this agreement has been between the state and the county and so you were sort of a sub to the county um so the only thing that's different this year is that you are Contracting directly with the state under this agreement those are basically FEMA yes I don't know that the terms are any different than an arrangement you had with the county but no I not it's just just now you know normally we have a mutual Aid and um we may or may not get reimbursed for it now we we will be able to right um are there any other questions for the City attorney I guess in regards of General matters do have a question in regards to form one form six because I initially missed your email yeah um regarding that we don't have to file form six now we file back to form one yes how long is that going to be in place is that just for this year it's a temporary injunction at this at this point in time so I can't answer that question uh but the advice I'm receiving uh from Florida Lea cities indicates that we should act like form one is is the disclosure that will be appropriate for candidates and for you um for the foreseeable future until we're told otherwise okay and they extended the deadline I think it was like 15 days or something yeah I think like July 15th which was a little confusing because there was one line it today extended until September but then well that's if you put in for extension which you always have the option to do for 30 days there there is a great yes um is it easier to access this form one than it is for so everything everything is electronic and online this year so if you haven't already requested an email you have to email the state the commission on ethics to get sort of access to their software program but you identify yourself you send them an email and they confirmation from there it does appear to be easier to navigate it should now be set up for all of you to go directly to form one whereas before the default was for you to go directly to form six I already completed it so yeah it's uh it should be easier so much easier than the form six good was if you have questions I'm I'm happy to help you navigate it I know for myself there were some glitches in the system but I had to figure out how to override to get to the result I needed but if you have questions I can help them so if I registered in for form six it carries over to form one it should have defaulted um the commission on ethics their software should now have defaulted you to form one but if it hasn't there is a way to navigate away from form six to get to form one and violot instead and I already started I was like 99% down with the form six and they already added the form one when they did that so I just clicked on that and completed that so well I procrastinated on form six cuz I didn't want to answer some of those questions I was trying to do a little at a time and then okay all right moving on to agenda item number 11 wart all right can I'm this is where I wanted to say something can I say something okay I would like to ask both commissioner wart and mayor Nelson to delete uh their agenda item did and the reason is you know I ran for this position to work together M to advance um to protect to to do what I you know thought we could do as a group we're not not an individual we're a group of five and I think that if we proceed with these agenda items that no good can come from it I wholeheartedly agree with you commissioner for whatever reason they're both there you know I think it's if you if you get above it and look at it is it really simp business it's an ongoing it's an ongoing Personnel issue within the city that's developed to this point it's it's not it's not final yet um and and and when you say not final what do you mean not final well because we agreed we would wait for the outcome of of of of anything with the chief until his until his adjudication and and yes there is there you can point out the Integrity there's violations of code of code of conduct and whatnot but the time it'll be it'll be it'll be taken into consideration will be after his his court is is finalized and we agreed on that as commission a while back and and then you know I'm just going through the timeline on things Jamie on and how you and then you wanted an agenda item and and and and you wanted an agenda item put on the agenda and it was told to you that we didn't want to put the agenda item on the agenda and then from there it was well how do we how and and I was witness to this and you and you were you were very upset and B to the point of your vile about it you know and and you you said how do I get something on the agenda and I understand your frustration well okay and and then we and then you we we developed this policy right on how to get something on the agenda and and it was all agreed on on and she did she did the worst and it was on a Friday that we all left the table thinking that we were going to we were going to pass this policy on how to put something on the agenda because there was there was no you know there was no consensus and this this policy that that she had worked on with was at a previous meeting I don't know it was the last meeting or meeting before but it it did it it fell on the floor well so couple things there one and we had talked about this the last PR commission we had I thought we had a really good productive conversation about that whole situation that and I apologize to the mayor and apologize again I'm sorry I got upset with you and we learned from that that there was miscommunication with the city attorney they there was thought they were thinking that he was going to talk to me and he never talked to me and I believe if the City attorney would have talked to me at that time that whole situation would never happened and yes I I got a little too upset I'll admit it but I'm trying to do what's right for the city right the second part I'll say is we keep alluding to the trial I'm not even talking about the criminal charge I'm just talking about civil citations I said that multiple times and and the agreement was that we'd wait till the outcome of of of the we never voted on that sat here and agreed on it we initially we had a consensus that hey we want to let the city manager handle that we not going to deal with that that was a consensus we left however you continue to push the agenda on taking some type of action against T framing then we actually came back and took a vote we actually voted yeah when Dave Marcy was here that because at the time the trial was supposed to be or the case was supposed to be like in April or something like that I think it was so we said hey let's give this until April to let you know due diligence or you know and that passed and that passed when that did not happen when April 9th was delayed until June then city manager put him on administrative duties which was disciplinary action in regards to still waiting on the results of what comes from this criminal charge so that's what we did vote on didn't agree to it the commission agreed to it right I agree it was voted on and and then it becomes the issues know so as a commission that's what we that's what the commission agreed on you have your independent feelings I do and so since so that's been February March April now May June five months that we're still coming back to this um so thank you for your statement um number 11 I don't have anything else all right so possible approval to sens of the city manager so anything else on that so it'll stay on the agenda well since we don't have an official uh may I ask a question since we don't have an official policy our pattern has been to either keep or remove things by consensus so as a consensus if we don't want something to be on the agenda we can just say we don't want to discuss this on the agend because we don't have an official policy so we're falling back to what we've traditionally done for the past three years Jamie do you do you want the do you want the floor as to why what what's specific about the censure that you want to I've already stated it I've been pretty clear about it you have you talked about but you're talking about censoring the city man okay so I brought up multiple times of Chief Rey in his past history well we're talking about city manager right so and I had a discussion with her about this and believe it or not we agreed more than we disagreed didn't we we agree and even after that conversation I was like you still feel that way she's like yeah I'm like I I I you know I would not do this the I don't enjoy this I I don't get any enjoyment out of this whatsoever what do you hope to accomplish but what what do so you don't agree with the city manager so you want I don't agree with the city manager's um handling of the situation so what part do you not agree with and but now you you you're for me you're mixing things you're saying past and then you're saying this so what what specifically do we need to censor her about yeah it's lack of of action of the chief ring I I believe he should be terminated I've stated that but as a commission we voted to allow her to make those decisions I disagree with that decision based on the recommendation of three lawyers well hold on let's let's back up for a second and I've stated this multiple times I asked the HR attorney a specific question on if you just look at the Civil citations not the criminal charge I'm not even talking about the criminal charge okay I understand that but you just look at the Civil citations and if he had passed actions that brought negative publicity to the city could that be a viable reason to terminate him and his answer was I believe what you're alluding to is conduct Unbecoming and in my mind and I even stated this on the commission that's exactly what I'm getting at and he said yes that could be a viable reason he did state that would be up to the City attorney or not city manager and he's right it is up to the city manager and I disagree with her decision so because you disagree one of five individuals MH you think that that warrants censorship yeah what do you hope to accomplish the truth what Li what I didn't say lies were being told you you hope to accomplish the truth as if there's an error or there's been fals okay maybe that was a bad choice at words the past history he has a pattern of negative behavior so the past history being the the text messages on his personal phone that's part of it and and and anything what what prior to that Facebook post requiring people go canvasing neighborhoods to get a feathers permit I think there was confusion on that in regards to how our policy was stated and it was clear today no it was pretty clear so it goes back to pedling neighborhoods without a permit MH you're pedaling so Mark Anderson had to get involved and it was I don't know this it wasn't just me but Mark Anderson had to get involved when he required us to get a ped's permit police were called on two of us so did he call the police on you all no it was it was a resident okay and and and I had talked to the police chief about this prior and he wouldn't budge on it and when the police were called on me I was told I had to leave I called Mark Anderson he contacted the city he got it all straight out for me so this goes back to C calling the police on you not just me who El call the police grade so a citizen yeah CTI so the police just weren't riding by and just picked you out no no of course not they were very poite professional call the police on you why did they call because you knocking on their door or something or and you know they probably thought I was a solar panel person you know know Pap adamant about no soliciting you know and there's a difference between soliciting and campaigning right yeah canvasing and pedaling so this is an issue when you were you were a candidate and you were campaigning y so this is [Music] from1 21 and you're you're upset about no I'm not upset about it what I'm saying is there is a history here so how is that negative behavior though he's upholding what he thought was the policy of the because I approached him about it but if he thought that was the policy of the city how is that negative behavior and didn't say it was negative behavior that's what you just said there's a history of negative behavior and now you just CED okay the he's upholding the the law of the city but no the the law is pretty specific when it comes to that you have to be selling a product or a service in order to have to require a ped's permit I approached him not on just one occasion but on two occasions could not change his mind and so I went and I the police were calling me that's not his fault that's nobody's fault and and it's not probably not even the person that called fault they were probably just thinking it was a solar panel person I don't blame them um and they told me I had to leave and you know that's a it's a pretty big deal because that's a First Amendment thing and I stated that to police but his Facebook post is also a First Amendment thing which is what the attorney that goes against social media policy of the city though was that a policy at the time oh yeah so but if it goes against the city's policy from my understanding HR went through that cuz that was before we came on mhm so policy was in place I know at that time was 2018 so it's definitely by that time okay so I guess Miss G how did the in regards to the Facebook post was it how did that violate policy but no action was taken none um I think you had the attorney that came in then and said he has first amended rights he does he was not on duty it was late at night um the information was already out there first of all and he posted a Facebook post and that was what the attorney said he did not violate anything had he been on duty had he done that during the time that he works surely it would have violated uh the city policy and that's that's what the attorney said and I totally agree with that so I guess back to so this is what the polic States it says any such conduct that adversely affects or may be viewed as adversely affecting past or present city of Lin Haven citizens employees management or city commission members will doesn't say may doesn't say possibly he says will result in disciplinary action up to including termination that is the city policy now legally can he do that yeah of course he can do that legally but it still goes against our social media policy code got but so let's go back to your caning issue what does that have to do with her if that's something to talk with the chief about she was involved the Mark Anderson had to talk to her and the chief about that and that's when the city attorney got in had to get involved and all of us that were running at that time we received an email saying yeah you don't need a p permit I do remember email remember that because there was confusion about that that there really was and we did straighten that out and we did go back and face that I didn't think it was malicious I didn't say it was malicious I was saying it was wrong so so she needs to be censured to so she so censor her it's a bad judgment for a misinterpretation we talked about that of a to me it just sounds like it's real personal and vindictive okay if it was personal and vindictive let's just say if it is then why is it I didn't push for him to be terminated when the vulgar text came out I didn't push for that I didn't push I didn't push the the city manager to give him a reprimand I didn't push for any of that in fact if anything I I defended him because what you're stating now are personal matters when you're talking about canvasing that's a personal it wasn't just me I just saying it's that's a bad judgment call okay okay may I say something sure I'm going to go back again at my request for both gentlemen to withdraw this action item again no good can come from this I think the whole city knows exactly how you feel yeah you I mean you made it perfectly clear in every single Bo how you feel I'm just if if that's what you want for the city to know how you feel and that you don't agree with the way that she's handled it I think everybody knows that but by these actions I don't think any good can come from this I don't think it warrants an agenda out of in a vote I mean she's over 200 employees that she is responsible for so you don't and yes we all make mistakes and could it have been handled differently we've discussed this in her office one onone I've voiced my opinion both on Chief Ry and the situation right and that's how it should be conducted so when I had a discussion with her about it I brought up four those facts we just talked about I brought up all four of those facts with her so what's the four facts and I'm not being the three civil citations okay the the vulger text the Facebook post and uh P's permit okay and in all four of those you agreed he either made a bad judgment call or did something unethical and I said you know I didn't say unethical I said bad judgment call never said unethical okay okay let's make sure yeah so bad judgment call we'll go with that so I said so when you look at all these things separately you know is it viable for termination no but when you bundle it all together we have an issue we have a negative Trend and and I asked her and I I I expressed that I feel based on those he should be terminated and her answer was one he is a great asset to the city he's done all these great things and I don't disagree with that but two she said you're talking about a person's livelihood and those are the two reasons she felt like he should not be terminated May absolutely one me clarification so what neighborhood were you in with this oh God it was um I know it was on that side of 77 I don't remember the name of the road actually hold on I could find it for you um and and I'm not out to get Chief Amy I'm not I'm really not but I can't I can't sit here it's on Massachusetts app says West 17th Street Massachusetts at so so was it a no solicitation neighborhood did you r no it's just a regular wasn't like an HOA or subdivision or anything like that just a regular Road you're near Northshore not like hammocks or mil Bayou or anything like that nor but I there are just certain things I just cannot turn a blind eye to I can't I can't do that I don't think the commission is turning a blind eye I don't think we have turned a blind down I I think we have enough there and it's not personal I don't have a vendetta against them if it was again I would have pushed for it when the vulgar text thing came out so what has the uh so what and and I'll say this too is the notification when we received it we should have received that a lot sooner and I think you agreed to that too I did and I we had a very in-depth discussion about that and the only reason I found out about it was Facebook that's not the way we should have found out about it well I didn't find out about it on Facebook so I don't follow those pages that promote that and as soon as I saw it that's when I text message city manager and I said and I it was the copy of the police the thing from Bay County court records and I said please tell me there's another Ricky Ramy or there's more to the story yeah and she goes there's definitely more to the story so that told me she already knew about it and then in five minutes I got a call from Chief Ry okay so with the sensor what Behavior are we dis are you ask action lack of lack of termination of the chief got it so when I've did some reading on S here um and and Amy sort of helped me with this usually it's something that's done in the federal level US Senate house Representatives um it can be done at a local level but usually it's only for elected officials yeah sounds like it yeah when when I've read it I'm not saying it can't be done for a city manager but typically all the reading I've done has been for like a a local has been for elected officials where there's one body the body is censoring one of their members for like gross Behavior right not normally it's parliamentary type stuff not lack of on and it can be personal Behavior it can be things they do in their personal life it can be but usually things that take place within the commission you know that goes that violates the policy or the standards of conduct of that particular body um as a commission we we decided to allow her and give her the freedom to take action as she deemed necessary and now for us to come back and say we're going to censor you for doing action or in action with our permission I think is just it's just counterproductive of what we decided to do I I'll say this this whole thing has been a huge huge learning experience for me if I were to do it all different all over again when I do it defitely absolutely absolutely of course you know as we all would have yeah I agree um so and as we know when we get into office it's normally none of us have been involved in as elected officials a lot of times they've never been involved in local government so there's a lot there's a big learning curve there and um I appreciate Amy Meyers um educating me on some of these things as even through that through this whole thing she has educated me on lot of things and I'll tell you how this first thing got started was I it was started where I wanted to do a vote of no conference on Chief Ry and Amy Myers had called me and emailed me so she contacted me right right which I very well appreciate and she explained to me that that's not under the purview of the commission we cannot censor that because we're not his boss so I said well what options do I have and she did explain the only people that you can do a voto no conference on is the city manager or um the City attorney the City attorney right and I said I said okay then that's what I'll do and so I did that and then the next day I got thinking about it and I remember commissioner Peebles had originally brought this up at the original commission meeting when this whole thing came about and he talked about a vot of no confidence but he also talked about censor and I got thinking about it I said well let me look more into it and I did and because and then when I learned and I after I did my research I called Miss Meyers and and she did confirm what I was thinking cuz you're right A lot of the stuff is that higher government stuff it's hard to find local government when these things when it comes applicable to local government and so a voter no confidence is more of the way I understand it like their overall performance or multiple actions that they have taken that you disapprove of and normally it's a first step or the step to terminate an employee and so when I thought about that and then I read up on censor I'm like it's not really voted no confidence I want it's more of censor so that's when I decided okay I don't agree with the way city manager has handled this that's why I want a vot a sensor yes as I said to to commissioner Ward when the commission has given me the commission has given me consensus that this is the way they go this is the way we go mhm until the outcome of whatever happens I've always said to you whatever the outcome is there will be discipline I've always said that to you everyone knows that I've said that to every commissioner in here you guys wanted something done and I said in June when when the trial didn't take place I put him on administrative duties everybody said something needs to be done Commissioners came and thank me for doing that following the things that I said I would do when you said you guys said to wait let's see the outcome I'm doing that but now because I'm following your command I get punished for that and I don't think that's right that yes that was their Direction and everybody knows that that was their direction to wait I can't act on one commissioner I have to act according to the Charter on the commission and and that's what I'm doing I I feel like I am doing the right thing because we don't know that come morally and ethically I have to do the right thing and that's what I'm doing it's not that I'm doing nothing I'm just waiting to make sure we're doing the right thing and I think the attorney told you guys that so that both the citizens and the city can be protected my decisions are all about the city being protected and the citizens being protected and so there's no lack of anything right now until the end of this journey and there will be discipline I think I've said that to you more than one occas I've had Commissioners tell me I don't think it's appropriate right now for ter termination Commissioners and more than one and so that is exactly what I'm doing and I think from the beginning what As I understood because when this did come out um I did meet with city manager HR HR is um HR Dave Marcy and literally probably about for eight hours between all of them to try to find some way to to have some type of disciplinary action I I'll say I did that now publicly let's come out let's be unified let's let's be unified but when when all this first happened I personally spent eight hours engaging with all of them including Kevin on what can we do what I kept the response kept coming back to hey because it was stated it was a medical issue that can fall under the medical Disability Act and we don't want to miss we don't want to infringe upon on that right now so that was the really the hold back it wasn't it wasn't even so much of police you know sanctions Oaths you know the covering from the police uh part as much as hey the disability you know but that goes back to the criminal charge I'm not even talking about the criminal charge this this is what I'm saying to you that charge was a result of his actions which was stated to be part of a medical condition so then we can't say say we're going to punish you for a medical condition that if something happened because you had a medical condition that we punish you for that that's how it was after eight hours that was the conclusion that was given to me was hey we we just have then when it came to the criminal charge well hey you just have to wait because you don't want to seem as if you're forcing the courts to try to make a particular decision especially when it was at the local level for example if it was still in Larry bassford and we as electeds are really pushing a particular angle of how we want this case handled then it could be shown that hey are we forcing him to do or to not do something because he has an election coming up so it was wanting us to stay out of the judicial part of it and focus on what are we doing on this side of it so that's why there was the initial hey what can we do um aspect of it because there were so many different moving pieces that we couldn't just nail down one thing and say well this is it so we can move forward upon this action I'll say two things okay first one I'll refer back to what the HR attorney said said based on the Civil citations and past history could that be a viable reason to terminate them he said yes he stated that that was that special meaning we had I specifically asked him that question I almost didn't thank God I did he said specifically stated that and you said that there's going to be some type of discipline that happened after this and and let me clarify you all have asked me to look at this particular I don't think any commissioner asked me to go back and look at what has happened before you asked that and that's what I'm doing so you asked me to look at this particular issue and that's what I that's where I'm confused no I'm confused when we when we talked in your office we talked about all four the fact we did but as a commission they have asked me to look at this one particular issue and that's what I'm okay so let me ask this okay if when this whole thing is over with the trial whatever if it gets dismissed or there's a plea deal whatever happens and we have a vote and I have to ask us the City attorney can we have some type of vote on what we feel should be done no it's not appropriate yeah see that's the struggle I'm having I I just so you're struggling with what the policies are no I'm struggling with I mean that's what it seem it seems no I'm struggling with the decision I I I feel that the police chief position is a very it's a very ke leadership position and and you have to have a high caliber person in there and if you're having someone that is is is making bad judgment calls or bringing negative publicity to the city I think we need to look at other options that's the problem I'm having okay so when this is over you can make a motion to as commissioner Tinder did in the past she made a motion that the police chief answered to the commission as the city manager does versus the being under the city manager she did that in in in in the past I remember I don't agree so basically you're saying the police chief would work for us that's he'd be a charter officer be a charter officer I don't agree with that um well that's well that's the type of control you want over his position right now yeah I agree I agree I'm just it's my struggle is I know what the right decision is so the right decision is to fire the cheat yep absolutely but it's not your decision to I know I know but I dis but I disagree with her decision I punished because I disagree with commissioner war and that's where I I will agree and you're 105 and you're welcome to to to how you feel and I I I I understand your termoil but we you know she talked over the timeline on everything we had the special meeting the his we we we've we've agreed by consensus even though you don't agree to go in the direction we're going so okay could could we do this after it's all said and done we each individually talk to the city manager and if we don't agree with the decision then I could do another vote u a sensor vote yes and no you can if you disapprove of her conduct but if he is acting at the direction of a majority of the commission she is not doing anything inconsistent with her what she's supposed to be doing okay disagreement is not grounds for censure disapproval of bad behavior is grounds for censure so if I so when this when this is done if I disapprove of her no of of hold on let me get this out disapproval of her discipline of the police chief that could be a viable option for a vter censor it's not Behavior again what I have heard you said repeatedly is I disagree I disagree I disagree the disapproval is has to be for her action or non-action but again if she is working at the direction of a majority and you are the minority of that that's not grounds for censure she's not behaving badly she's behaving as Direct Ed she's implementing the vote of the commission do you have any comments commissions I do so first uh so uh since I brought up cature uh have spent a lot of time in the Robert rules of orders and I would say that uh my understanding of it obviously we have Amy here to answer questions but I would say that you can it's based on action and Roberts rules of water does actually give a specific example of censuring a fire chief so it really can be anything as long as it's an action but my but what my main goal is is I just want everyone up here to be able to say what they want to say you know I think I don't want anyone to ever feel like they have to be walking on egg Shield eggshells to be able to if they're passionate about something so I appreciate uh commissioner War's passion I I feel like there are some things that he can be upset about and then as he stated there's some things maybe he got too upset about but I also want to uh give the mayor the opportunity to talk about why he wants to cend your uh commissioner work before I give any final thoughts on what I have on this whole situation mine is actually stated in the resolution and so as commissioner War stated if we go back to past actions since I been on this Council for the past three years um commissioner work on multiple occasions I mean it's it's stated here on multiple occasions has been despite conduct un becoming of L Haven City Commissioner multiple times in exchange of dialogue I've had ask commissioner work hey calm down I'm not yelling at you that happened once no happened more on more than one occasion you never had told me how to calm down except for one time when was that the the when we couldn't add the agenda item no no no it's been way before then we've had to do it when we met at the Garden Club right about the financial review board right met at the Garden Club also we met in the senior center matter of fact we had the mayor youth Council there and you actually cursed at me that was a f I didn't curse at you yeah I said you use a curse word I did use a I I said ass yeah but I didn't in in front of our te students and I didn't use it as like a derogatory I'm trying to remember I said I think I said something like the I know the City Works her ass off or something like that no that wasn't your statement remember it direct it was directed towards me so but but I remember there was we did talk about the financial review board you're right and I I did get upset on that so there have been a few occasions where I've had to say commissioner work I'm not yelling at you calm down there there's been a few occasions I've had to do that there's also been a few occasions where if something doesn't go your way you seemingly try to bully your way through in order to get those things done um we've even had employees to say you know commissional workers a little overbearing on certain issues and we're not compliant with what he wants us to do so and now since February again you've displayed no one's ever told me that as far as employees saying that's why we've had to say hey make sure you continue to speak to the city manager we we made a blanket statement speaking to the city manager I do so um and so during since 2001 argumentative rot abusive since May 2021 I thought you said 200 sorry no since May 2021 um those have been some of the actions that I've seen now what happens is though is that if you're dialoguing with commissioner perno there is no you know aggressiveness or with commissioner uh with former commissioner um Brandon Aldridge or with commissioner Tinder seemingly it was only directed towards me that there was this always aggressive tone and beh maybe because I was the chairman of the meeting maybe because I disagree with what you were saying probably more than that I don't I don't know but I know I would have citizens that would come and say to me that would be the part they remember from the meeting not the actual conclusions we came to um and so now some have said well hey this is retaliation uh to censoring the uh the city manager um I wouldn't necessarily call it retaliation it's it's not that it's for five months we've continued to go down this same path of dealing with the police chief when we're saying hey stop or and I'm not saying that you have to stop expressing your your your expression of speech I hear what commissioner peoples is say I don't think anyone is trying to stifle what anyone is saying what I did mention in previous meetings is whatever we say goes on public record right whatever emails we send whatever all text messages all that goes on public record so in the best interest of the city we have to be very careful about what we say so now if the city manager fires Ricky rayy although the commission as a whole may not agree with it if the city manager fires Ricky Rond then it's going to be because because of all the things that have been said well I get it you want your con to know that you want Ricky Ry terminated I understand that you have an election coming up soon if you let me finish you have a reelection coming up soon if you decide to run so I know you want your constituents to know how you feel about the issue so I get that hold on however if it turns out that she fires Ricky Ry and Ricky Ry believes that he's been unduly terminated or that he was terminated because one commissioner pressured her to do it not because he because it was her decision to do but because of the pressuring from a commissioner to do that then we become a part of that suit and your name will be brought up in that suit so it's going to be cin Haven commissioner Jamie Ward so the entire time I'm not trying to stifle anyone from their public commentar from their speech as much as protect the city from statements that we make publicly again that's one reason why I stated the reason we didn't talk about Tallahassee issues here is because those individuals were list you got a problem it's called the Lin Haven corruption case not the Tallahasse corruption okay thank you um and so and you're right ly Haven corruption case which included Margot Anderson James Finch other City officials um and so because there was a liability that we could be sued if they thought they were wrongly accused then hey let's not talk about these issues because this goes on public record it's on public record it's publicly stated and so that's my thing is it's not about trying to stop you m I'm trying to protect Ricky Ramy or any of that as much as we're talking about protecting the city we have a $50 million water treatment plant that we have to work on I know $50 million so we don't have time to give to give someone $500,000 a million $3 million so because of that can I say one thing sure um my decisions I make I I make because I truly feel that way I don't make decisions so I can get reelected we know that there public officials especially when you get to state and federal level they make decisions not based on what they feel is right but based on getting reelected we know that happens I I'm not programmed like that so I'm my decision is not based on whether I go and try to get reelected I I don't even know if I'm going to run again I mean I don't know but um I don't make decisions to try to get reelected I mean I try to make decisions on what I feel is right and best for the city and the residents so I I I just want to make that point clear you know that this isn't I want just to think people think that this is like a political so I I will tell you what has happened um from from the community that I engage with and the citizens that I talk with because you've been so dogged about this issue now the attention has turned from Ricky Ry and he's actually gained more sympathy and it's turned towards you on the issue so we initi so we're initially where it was about hey these were Chief R's actions many people disapproved of those actions and the focus was on Chief Ry now because of five months of this ongoing you know doggedness about it now it's the focus has turned to what's going on with commissioner Ward yeah and and so now it's so the the public court of public opinion that we had to hey let's let's bring about some action towards Chief Ry has been what's going to why is commissioner wart still so doed about this why is he still so you know dogmatic about this particular issue so it's it's taking the focus off of what the issue really has been is is what I'm is the the point that I'm making yeah if I were to do it all over again I would definitely do it definitely well learning what we're saying now and I think what uh commissioner vff is saying is that now is a chance we have to do it differently so I get it that hey if we could do it all over again we would do it differently city manager probably make some different decisions if we were to ask the city attorneys again and labor attorney you know they would probably give us some different recommendations because part of the challenge with you know with with Marcy is that his opinion changed during the process so the information he gave us in February that we acted on when you asked them in March was a little bit different than what he initially told us in February which then was a little bit different than what we got in April so because he's getting new information so as new information is given or if questions are being asked in a different way we might asked questions differently then you POS the question so he's given opinions based on the questions that we're asking um so saying I think everyone probably would have made different decisions based on what we know now and so but we are at a point in a juncture where we can make a different decision this so so this is where we are so I think that's what commissioner Vandergriff is is asking is we understand your dis disapproval of city manager actions certainly understand that I can't say that I agree with everything as well but I've expressed that to her and then I've moved on to say let's move on in handling City business um but yeah so today is the day we have the to do something different all right list all right I guess I have a few questions now so I don't want this to feel like we're dog piling on uh commissioner War because I do feel like um he's obviously passionate about this and it's important to him um but would the mayor uh I understand what you're saying would do you have if if we were to go forward with this are both of you prepared to show something like provide evidence to us or would it just be based on the words that you're saying today because I feel like a lot of this stuff is just based on this is what happened but I want to see like hey this is a per here's the example of harassment here's the example of where the city manager didn't do this is that kind of stuff going to be provided so for example on page 60 where is commissioner Jamie work Abus powers and Authority as the L Haven City Commissioner by interrogating intimidating harassing officers of the Florida Highway Patrol and employees of Miss newbies as I understand it you visited twice I visit newbies Florida Highway patol that's true so went out once was told that they couldn't give him the information as I understand it please correct me as I understand it went out to the Florida Highway Patrol once was told that that he could not receive that information I was told that the City attorney talked with commissioner Ward did and said hey don't go do that commissioner W proceeded to go back out to the Florida Highway Patrol now that that's what I was told was that commission that you were told hey you don't need to be doing this investigation I need to be working you know um and then I was also told that when you went out there and you dressed down one of the officers that a superior office had to come out and calm you down no no that's what I was that's what I was told no that's not true so here so here's what happened okay so I guess my question is this might be what you you were told and I'm not denying that you were told this you absolutely could have been told this right but do you have evidence to prove that well here's the question other than someone just telling here's a question the same the same to Jame the same to commissioner Ward too so like I want to see evidence so the fact is did Jamie Ward go to FHP twice I did so no no no no no no that's not the fact there's a difference between asking a question and harassing did that person say that he is there evidence that that person claimed that they were being harassed that to me there's a difference between being interrogated and being harassed that's a very big differ the the purpose is is that he was doing that on behalf of the city of ly Haven as a commissioner not as a citizen hey I'm Jamie Ward and we all have to realize that in whatever capacity we operate in in the city of L Haven people see us as mayor commissioner whether we I'm yes I'm a citizen of or police chief that that's the capacity people see us in they don't see us as Jesse Nelson Jamie Ward they see us in those capacities so I'll explain what happened so the question is should the commissioner have't going to FHP interrogating them regarding this case let me explain what happened was when I found out I think it was was either Wednesday or Thursday that week when we first found out about it I went down to FHP I went down when they first opened up uh young lady came out she was not a police officer she was uh one of the like staff admin type people and uh I explained um that I was there to try to get some U how what trying to get information about the um Chief Ramy and the H and run and she goes well the captain I think it's he's a captain captain or the major was not there at the time she goes have a seat I'll see what I can do and she she did and uh she took my information and she said uh she gave me the captain's uh phone number and she gave him my phone number and he called and he talked to me and um I he kind of explained you know what are you looking for and I said well I'm looking for everything and he explain that you have to wait 60 days unless you're the victim or the person actually involved in the incident and uh I said okay um and then that's when I got a call from Kevin obos but Kevin obos never told me not to go down there he didn't tell me not to do this not to do that I think that's another discussion that we need to have okay future commission meeting um so and he said that he he called me based on Vicky talked to him and so I automatically assume that that police officer called Vicki and I'm like why the heck did he call Vicki so I asked if he could have a sit down with his boss and he said yeah and uh he responded and I think it was it was actually President's Day it was a Monday it went down there and uh you know we they were both very nice to me it actually was a very good conversation we talked about other things besides this like jurisdiction like how how do you determine like you know uh whether it's FHP or the county and and he explained all that stuff to me so we got another conversation it was very beneficial but I did ask the captain why he felt it was necessary to call the the city manager and he goes I never called your city manager I don't even know the name of your city manager and uh I said huh I wonder how she got the phone call he goes it wasn't me so um I said okay and we we shook hands and everything was good you know um that was the only question I really want and and we did talk a little bit more about the public public records best they explain where to go to get it and things like that so I didn't interrogate him I mean I wouldn't harass and intimidate a police officer you know um and if I did why didn't they provide a why didn't they do a complaint up or something you know I it didn't happen like that I'm here to tell you so miss newbies I I did go down there and I talked to a couple bartenders and asked them if they knew anything and uh did you it was only like maybe 5 10 minutes tops did you provide your business C I did I did so I get it I oversteep my balance we talked about this before and I agree I oversteep my balance and this like I said this has been a big learning experience for me um I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong and when when you're at yeah I guess but I didn't but I I'm sorry interrupt but I want to make sure that understand I didn't intimidate anybody I didn't harass anybody I didn't like you know pressure them to tell me so here's here's the thing commissioner and totally get that I think sometimes what we have to be reminded of is just our sure size can be intimidated I was with my Walker I mean I get it but I'm saying if you're here's what I'm saying like if I look at myself I think I'm a nice guy I think I'm a gentle guy I think I'm pretty cool but it wasn't until I saw that man I'm the same size as a middle linebacker for a college football team MH that I could be intimidating to someone so what I'm saying I'm just saying that although you may not thought you were intimidating that's the message that got out from your going to miss newbies is that intimidating harassing that's I had to do it all over again I would have wi that's the message that got out was that you were intimidating and harassing yeah so I wasn't there but that's the message that was that that that is what was delivered to the public is that a CIT and Haven commissioner cuz how do I know you went there cuz I wasn't there right Al so you were on behalf of the city you left your business card I know I know so that's why I say abuse his powers and Authority because we're going to do something that we said that hey let HR handle that they handle the Personnel issues we don't I admit that I mean and I didn't initially go in there I and tell him that it was after I gave at the end I gave him my business card so I I apologize and in regards to you know and and this is in regards to Sam acting contrary to the advice of Lin Haven's human resource department City labor attorney City attorney and the desires of the city Lin Haven commission um we've already voted on this we've already had a special meeting just on this topic back in March then we voted to let City the manager handled this and now we're coming back saying let's censor her for actually operating and acting upon what we told her that she could do I understand so I'll say this um so right now if we continue down these roads we're not going to get accomplish what we need to get accomplished as the city commission i' I've I've had quite a few people reach out to me and uh I think a lot of residents don't don't feel the same way I do and uh you said they don't feel the same way you do not not me the what's going on with the position with Chief ring decisions been made um I'm just trying to so are you saying they feel the same way you do or they don't feel the same I think they feel closer the way I feel got it um I'm just trying to do what's right and I don't know I feel like a failure because I know that's the right thing to do I think we all know that's the right thing to do but we're too afraid to say anything I think too afraid to say anything commissioner I think we took a vote and we're going by what the commission decided to do since March your behavior has been anti on what the commission decided to do the reason we took a vote is because we by consensus we left the table saying hey let the city manager handle this several times Kevin told us she could do this then we come back and officially vote and we're back here that's March that's the second meeting in March March April May June 3 months later talking about the same issue that we said hey let's City handle and part of that I I agree with that and part of that I was hoping there' be an outcome in this thing we seriously we all did like it's like how much longer do we have to wait you know so I she can tell you I was upset when I got the notification that hey this has been delayed until June yeah I was upset too when we left that meeting we were hoping that okay hey in April this comes up her and I had talked about some disciplinary actions based on what the outcome would be in April believe it was April 9th was the day it was supposed April 9th or April 11th one of those days okay hey if this is the outcome maybe this is what she might do if this is the outcome maybe this is what she might do and then when we get the notification that has been delayed till June then we said okay well hey we can't wait until June that's when we said we do have to do administrative duties after her and I talking we said okay and talking with the attorneys as well administrative leave would just be a free vacation administrative duties strips strips him of his police Authority but still allows us to get some work out of out of the employee um but still not functioning in the capacity of chief of police and so we thought in the best interest of the city hey let's let's move to administrative duties because it has been a long time and so I agree with you I'm not happy that it got postponed I'm not happy that it's not resolved because it is a sticking point for our city that we got to move past or try to move past at some point once this is resolved so I would hope that you know Chief Raymond's attorney would expedite it and and get it resolved in a lot faster fashion mayor and and with administrative duties we are up for accreditation we have our Point person that of course you know Sergeant Mike Williams says out on medical Le he and another officer handled that along with Ricky uh Ry last year two years ago three years ago and now it's up for a re accreditation Chief Raman I think I said this to you too he has the knowledge to be able to get us re accredited we have to be able to do that and if you've ever been to one of those commissions um where they re accredit you they are very very difficult they we we think this commission you know we have our different disagreement but they are to the point and um they point out all of your weaknesses and they have the power in their hand of whether or not the police off um the police department is re accredited that is crucial to us and so that's where he's handling a lot of that that U re accreditation um information they'll be coming and doing a visit here they'll be doing in this they'll actually do several visits and that reaccreditation happens in August we've got to get through that and so it's been very helpful to us in that sense that Chief Ry can do a lot of those administrative things because right now we had to pull another officer out to help us as well so again I know many of you don't know the workings of this city but I know what has to be done to make sure we continue to be the premier City that we continue to give great services to our our citizens that we continue to for our citizens to have faith in us and the things that we do and that's all that I'm doing I know everybody doesn't agree they they don't everybody doesn't like us everybody doesn't like things about us I get that but guys I am going to do the right thing and whether you pressure me or harass me or any of those things I answer to a higher power and I have to do the right thing and I and commissioner you know I coach you this right and so that's all I'm doing I'm following your command that's what you told me to do well after further consideration of what uh commissioner van Griff requested initially before this discussion and uh commission perno did ditto um I would like to strike uh agenda item number 12 thank you I'll strike a lot Jamie we want you voicing your opinion I've learned a lot from you I don't ever want you to hold back but please don't ever assume that I'm afraid to voice my opinion I'm conservative in what I say can I say can I say something sure oh sorry I didn't mean I had to hit the button so if I cut you off sorry I want you to finish what you were saying go ahead oh oh okay I just want to say uh commissioner work that I I truly believe that what you're you are passionate about this because you believe you're doing what's right okay and I also believe that this decisions that were made like you you you showed to me that today that you were you said hey I made some mistakes and I'll own up to that and I want you to know that I respect that um I think that's great also want to say uh I think that the purpose of this censure just from the outside looking in is that people this was a way for different people to bring it up for a topic of discussion in today's meeting and I think that that's what happened commissioner war was able to talk about what was on his mind and how he felt the mayor was able to talk about what he felt um and I just want to say that I appreciate both of you offering to strike these uh censures because I do think that that was the right thing to do because we all had this conversation and I think that that's what it's all about we want we don't ever want to be in um a a situation where we feel like we can't say I understand that there's uh you feel you know what the mayor said about uh everything being on public record and all that but I will say you know there were times when we were sitting there and there would be debates going on and it felt like people were not letting the other person talk and that's never helping so I just requested in the future if someone's speaking in their uh commissioner report just let them say what they have to say and then afterwards address it um that's all I have to say and thanks everybody right anything else and let me say uh commissioner Ward you are my you're my neighbor so I certainly appreciate you um and I remember when we both came to City commission meeting when it was in the trailers talking about our neighborhood mood Highlands and I know you as well as myself have tried to assist the citizens there with the different issues you know we've come together for the storm water issues that are there and the other issues and so um I don't think there's any other community that has you know two Commissioners you know on the on the same spot now not saying we have to do everything from W Highlands let me be very clear about that um because I'm still trying to get that back roow so I can get my my golf cart out of there um I'm still waiting on that but it's it's my desire for all of us to work together I mean ly Haven and I don't want this issue to drag us down I don't let me publicly State and I've said Chief Raymond I've had a few hours of conversation I do not agree with his decision to do what he did I don't agree with that and I've expressed that too so I don't want anyone to think that hey I went and gave him a high five and said hey man everything's going to be all right I didn't I I talked with Chief Ry I followed up with him a couple of times but I've you know I've expressed you know my discontent with the decision that he made um however I also try to balance that with you know the scales of justice and that right now we're not in a position to exercise that Justice and so but as a commission man there's so many issues and this is a big issue I'm not saying this is not I don't I don't want you to think that I'm saying we have to dismiss this issue I am expressing that because of this issue for five months we've been delayed and I'm not saying it's your fault I'm not saying this issue has delayed we haven't even started on the comprehensive plan yet one reason we have to keep saying okay let's let's wait let's wait is because we're having to continue to work in certain issues so moving forward I mean I really do believe we are greater together like that's my campaign slogan right but I really do believe that we are greater together and we all bring together different facets of what we do I appreciate the the investigation that you do now not the other stuff but you know um I appreciate you digging into into details I appreciate that um a lot of times I'm a big picture guy digging into certain details but I appreciate the facts that you bring and the way that you look at different issues um so I appreciate the expertise you know that you bring to that all of us bring something um I appreciate you know commissioner perno and making sure that every there's a win-win for everybody that's usually what I get from him there's a win-win for everybody um I don't always agree with it you know but there's a win-win for everybody I agree with commissioner Vander Griff you know she logically you know lays out her thoughts um you know like we're in class um and so I appreciate that and I appreciate the Innovation that commissioner pees brings you know always trying to find a new way to do something then of course you have to go back to see can we do it this way based on Florida statute and such but I appreciate all of that um and so I think and it's not just me thinking it has been deemed that we have one of the top not just the top 10 cities but the top 10 Commissions in the State of Florida no other County no other city in Bay County is close to that so we're in the not not only a top 10 city but this also means we have a top 10 city manager top 10 officials directors you just don't get that from having pretty Parks right so we're all working together as a whole and I do believe and city manager has publicly stated so so here's what we do right is she did say that there would be discipline on the outcome of this if there is no discipline then we hold her accountable on that cuz she stated that we may not always agree with the discipline there might be some things that we don't agree with but if there is no action then we hold our accountable on that and we have that so I do agree when when when this is done and it's and and if discipline has happened sure feel free to go and talk with her about your concerns I think every commissioner should do that and I think we've been doing that along the way excuse me I think the difference is we may not have all publicly expressed that and I'm not not saying you're wrong for doing that um I'm not I'm not saying you're wrong for doing that at all um so I don't think we've all publicly expressed that but all of us have expressed our opinion to her um on what we think she should do and the amount of discipline and and all of that but for example what if the outcome comes she said there's going to be discipline there's no action taken then then there another conversation and I think then we come back and have that have that conversation about that but just want to say I do enjoy serving with you guys and I think you know there's a lot of good work that we still have to do you know whether you run again or not there's still a lot of work we got to get done before before that time comes all right we got to get our comprehensive plan done we just we just saw what we had to deal with today in regards to a townhouse um and I I definitely want to get on a comprehensive plan because I think there's some ideas that I've seen from Arena Island and other subdivisions that we can start requiring um within some of our comp plan for everybody um so uh but hey but it's our time 9:47 I got to go y'all have a great day bring the jour