##VIDEO ID:p-6AfKrA60A## good morning everyone calling our meeting to order at 8:03 a.m. since Mr light is going to have to leave we're going to jump to number 11 number 11 and then we'll go back and talk about the consent um number 11 is fin reading of ordinance 1170 and the petition for contraction um we supposed to have some updated numbers for us yes sir some clarification clarification Amanda and I talked about this um earlier this week and apparently U this property owner was told there had to be a loop put in the water line and stuff like that so when they first came to the city and asked for a water sewer availability form our staff fills that out as water and sewer available directly in front of the property without having to do any modifications the answer to that is no it's not directly available in front of the property however typically the developer or property owner then submits what they want to do we model it and determine what upgrades has to be done this has not been done to this parcel um they said that there wasn't they were told there wasn't adequate fire flow I'm not sure where that came from According to our model we have ,500 to 2,000 gallons a minute um in this area which is 1,000 gallons a minute is what we require so there is the option to get water and sewer to this parcel but just like everything else they're going to have to install the upgrades the county doesn't have it readily available either um so if they contract from the city and then build something in the county they're still going to have to upgrade and tie into the county system um I emailed the county Monday or Tuesday to ask them what their options were if you all did approve this what the county would allow for them to tie into they have not responded yet um but their's I mean their utilities are further away than our utilities are would he have to do a loop what he said so it depends on what he's putting there and what we model to show how he would get adequate pressure but even if he did have to put a loop in it's 650 ft of 6in water man so it's nothing way out of the ordinary um to make this happen so you'd have to do the same if was in the county correct so you'd have to do a loop in the county also so all the loop does is prevent a dead end from inadequate flow so the loop is coming got correct correct it's like one of our areas that has you know lower fire um fire flows if you can tie the two roads in together it goes from you know 800 gallons a minute to 1,700 gallons a minute it just increases that that pressure has this been does the developer know this so again he hasn't approached us as a public works utilities department to present anything and know what they would have to do um when somebody fills out a water and sewer availability request my my staff just fills it out as it's available directly in front of the property or not um like we had to do for um Jake's Landing when it had to be upgraded for example the developer submitted what they want we model it and then we give them a list of upgrades U the Bedford Park that you all recently approved where they had to you know increase the the water flow um they had to run the sewer in opposite direction um that's what the modeling is for yeah so to answer your question also to picky back off of that the the developer did call me in and chat with me and I'd already talked to Chris of course and I said you know um we don't know where you got that information from about the loop because you have not done um anything with public uh Public Utilities to find out that information and he said he was told by um another engineer that had built something or was going to build something a while back so he is not directly contact we have not submitted anything to our in our model to show what improvements if any are needed to make whatever he wants to develop on this parcel happen so at this point Chris Vick isn't whether the annexes or de annexes wouldn't they still be in our utility service area correct oh so you have to connect to our so it'll just it'll just cost 25% Mortage everything closer right we are closer than the C he's thinking the hookup is going to be more expensive with LH Haven than the county when I talk to the county has a water line on the opposite road that he would have to come all the way through way further than ours but we're still he's still in our service area and they only have a 2in sewer Force ban okay so my my two questions if he did have to hook up to the con he'd still have to do a close whatever they recommend I can't speak so may not be a closed right so I guess that leads my second question is is it that much more to do a closed loop or an open loop as a cl to do a loop or not Loop so it would cost more money yes because you have to run a little more pipe to go back in to tie in not that no it's but he's going to pay more money as Kevin just said because he's going to have pay a 25% up right if the county for monthly right if he contracts if you all approve for him to contract and then he still has to tie into us if the county denies him water and sewer Services he still has to tie into us he still has to go at our recommendations of upsizing and then we still chargeing 25% more monthly can the county give us a veral whether they was Deni or not I'm waiting on that okay and I and I don't know if I'll have that by Tuesday but again I mean can't speak for you all or speak for Amanda but we typically wouldn't be in this boat or be at this point if they had sub if they had submitted something and we said we couldn't support it then they would come to you all asking for this not just because they're going off hypothetical situations so what's the staff recommendation um I would prefer if the attorney tell us whether he thinks that the contraction would be justified said she had see as seeings as how um he's saying that water and S isn't available and it is available so if he was able to anex in which he did do with that ordinance although it was as a larger parcel can can we de Annex because he met the yeah IAL I talked to Amy yesterday and you know the way it situated she thinks you know that if he wanted to deex you know it it would qualify I we'd have to vote to do it um but what I'm you know I think the bigger picture is I don't know if he knows that he still even if he's if he becomes unincorporated Bay County great but he's still in our in our service area and it's going to cost him more money it's not going to solve his problem doesn't S like he knows that thank you Kevin um yeah but yes I do I do think it meets the the qualifications if we were to you know check those boxes say yeah if you want to DX we have to vote and do it thank you and I actually think there's more to it because every time someone asks him why he always says there's a number of things so um but I but at this point unless he brings one of the other things to us we have to make our decision on what was brought to us which is the contraction right I guess the I'm trying to figure out as Commissioners when we look at this I think is is there justification from the D you guys agree with that I don't know I'm just trying to figure out what our Ro yeah I think that's all that's all that's before you that's all for you on Tuesday has he made a d annexation application yep does it meet the meet the requirements to the annex we think it does you know whether it's to his detriment or not that's I guess that's on him so I guess in some sense from what Kevin is saying is that the justification doesn't matter whether it's a Justified reason or not as long as he meets yeah the statutory requirements right because the other thing I worry about is we know we got these areas in ly Haven where they're just County and surrounded by lyen and this just kind of exacerbates that problem yeah and remember we did that that interlocal boundary agreement that would help us with annexations and help us fill enclaves so part of that boundary agreement was you know we're we're providing the water the sewer the police the fire you know we're we're the service provider in that whole area yeah but his his one of his I talked to him after the meeting he's he's his land uses is commercial non Appliance non non-compliant non-compliant commercial all and he can't do anything else because everything around him is the low density residential his land use is actually mostly conservation with a little bit of Upland low density residential that Upland portion is not big enough to put a commercial Venture on um he is saying that yeah he's non-conforming because he has a commercial office on there like a mobile he's got a unit on there and it has been on there for a long long time and so we gave him at some point a non-conforming status when something was changed he became probably the land use he became non-conforming has been able to operate out of that as non-conforming he had someone come to the city um a year or two ago wanting to put another commercial Venture on there and that person was told no because when something is non-conforming it can remain so long as it's not vacant for more than six months or is damaged by more than 50% they can maintain it they can look after it they cannot expand so that person was told no so he actually doesn't have any commercial on there the county is to the north but the strip that's to the north is also residential there's commercial across the street but his land use is conservation and low density residential so is the primary concern for him becoming conforming would that just be more of a land use change to be I feel like he what he wants is because he's had people come in the past that and he says there's been people interested in buying it I feel he wants to have a commercial or a mixed juice land juice on there so that he can sell it and someone can do a commercial business but then you're going to have the problem of someone buying in a piece of property with a commercial land use thinking they can do something on there and then they're going to submit they're going to come to us and we're going to say hey there's not enough Upland there for your parking requirements your storm water requirements and then they're going to be mad because they bought a piece of property and can't do what they want with it potentially none of that has happened that's just the kind of thing that has happened in the past it will happen again so are we I know like whenever we get development orders and and that there's property rights and as Longs are abided by all local state and federal laws we have to approve it does this fall on that same thing that we have to approve this or can we say no on this Kevin did you hear that well I mean it's it's one of those it's kind of the same answer I mean obviously you know you guys can vote however you want but we would look at it you look at the statute does he meet the requirements of the statute and you know the answer answer is yes you know all all we could say is you know that would be our our recommendation that's what he wants and he meets the statute but that's the recommendation you know I guess one thing we could consider um say has he met with staff since our last meeting has he met with anyone know he's talk to city man no he talked me he called me and told me that he had spoken to a couple of Commissioners after the last meeting and um the after talking to them he was looking into the possibility of withdrawing his annexation request and submitting a future land use map Amendment if he does that then obviously we'll bring that to you um but he hasn't done that as yet if he had then I would be telling you he withdrew it and he's submitting a future lus map Amendment yeah that's that's what I would think this would be heading if if he knows you know that look you can de Annex but you're still in our service area you're going to hook up to Laden utilities and you're going to get tagged with the 25% SE charge and everything yeah I would think any any reasonable person that knows that would withdraw the application but we haven't spoken to him so I guess one option is that this could be tabled we possibly table the second reading until right the first reading in November but in between that time try to some communication with him um for clarification and then just put this to the next agenda so that I mean that's one option if we want to ensure that he understands all the options that he has um without us just having to say yes or no Amanda this is this second reading on Tuesday yes sir yes so it's been advertised yeah so I think what you would do is you would you know open the public hearing for the second reading and then just continue with continue it till you know the next meeting you know date certain so you don't have to re advertise if you you know instead of tabling it go and open the hearing and then continue the hearing so you can save save money on adver well it all goes County website anyway yeah and then and then Chris I recommend that Chris meets with him to discuss the whole utility situation have yall figured it out we will with we'll meet with him we just send whatever staff that way he can have clarification on what the after the public hearing yeah we'll do that however y'all do that um but yeah thank you all for the for the followup and the update and the clarification on that and thank you Kevin for your input on that as well all right let's bounce back to our consent agenda um or let me say is of course we'll know on Tuesday is everybody okay with the idea of pushing the staff giving another meeting so that there can be clarification at least it seems like there's a lot of hear say on his end versus factual on what can be done will be done Etc um all right consent agenda approval of minutes for uh 10824 again always encourage you to look through the minutes to see if there's anything um that needs to be updated or changed and if you you have any of those this will be a time or you know just let CJ know um number nine is the approval of the 1911 plat residential paint program application and uh number 10 is discussion of possible approval for the city ENT lease agreement rdk Associates 85 per month for an automated side load of garbage truck any questions on these I do um how much does a garbage truck cost 350,000 was close actually the last one was over 37 and it doesn't and it doesn't come with a full tank of gas either takes year to get them yeah I read that yeah I was just curious how much ago so have we have one on order or we or is this more financially beneficial this is beneficial to us in several ways if um if we buy one it goes down we got to go get fixed it's usually a couple of thousand dollars every time if we lease one we call them they bring us another truck it doesn't disrupt our service and we continue to to move on until they bring it back to us then when we're finished with it we just you know get another new one this is actually working uh we're seeing that leasing is working out to be uh financially uh smart for um us as a city as well has the service been good on the one that we released yes yes very good and this is in the budget because you think about it by the time you spend the money for the year and then I don't even know how long a garbage trip normally last for but um and then the maintenance on it I know there's a lot of things that can go some maintenance um I think the financial review board looked at this didn't they as far as whether it's beneficial only other question I had it says 24 month lease but when I looked in the the agenda packet it said 36 month I think that's um probably one of those is a mistake and we can get that clarified for you so is it 24 36 I I not sure yeah I see right here on 23 say do you know Bobby 36 36 yeah the agenda probably just need to be updated okay okay so it's not 204,000 then saw that somewhere oh that would be two years well I think what happens is on their from what I'm seeing on their letter it says 36 but on the actual agreement it says 24 like page 23 says 36 in their email actually it says 24 here which they've already done the math which would equal 204 for two years for two years but we'll clarify that years 11 they saying 36 yeah so I think that's the under them yeah like an addition yes how many trucks do we have total garbage four so two will be leased if we also uh how much did we allocate in the budget I don't remember for this off the top of my head I can't I mean 8,500 a month for 12 months but we did the budget before we no this is this is already pre pre-plan within the budget in terms of capital they turn in all of their Capital EXP and so we put that within their budget so it's already in the budget for $102,000 cuz that's what one year would be right well 85 $88,500 a month so we do budget year to year cuz I think you all budgeted for was it three trucks like two pickups and then one garbage truck is that what was two trash trucks yeah two trash trucks and then yeah so that was in the budget um I actually got pictures of those I had a citizen who wanted pictures of what our new trucks would look like um so I got Chris to send me pictures of uh the pickups the trash trucks in the uh in the side so you have any idea how long a trash truck normally last we get a replace garbage trucks only last about five years that comes out about the right they're actually the hardest working trucks in the city oh yeah all day so about 5 years you yes for truck probably get about eight say trash trucks theck Oh the we got a m like for like for solid waste yard debris the one that the neighborhood on Tuesday okay thanks all right any other questions on uh the consent agenda um being quick question oh he did um I know this is our first one of the Year number nine the or first one of the fiscal year um do you recall how many uh Pink program applications we did last year I'd have to look okay how many less than 10 okay we're doing more with I think we have $88,000 in our budget um for I think it's 8,000 you know we offer the same incentive for the C budget and and the 1911 PL so okay got it got it this seems like it's becoming successful seem like more people is they're becoming aware making applications I think that there's a lot of work to mouth uh neighbors notice the Improvement and then they start talking and uh and then um I'm getting another application so yeah I would agree awesome thank you all right uh anything else on the consent agenda all right number 12 discussion only of development order for order amendment is be for gree Pro 3119 is Highway any questions about this Pages 48- 60 is this just for information yes because you already voted it you already approved it but you had certain things you wanted them to do they have done those things so this is just coming back to you so you can see what they've done and that it's been reviewed to make sure that their storm water facilities are adequate and that kind of thing is the neighborhood opposed to them moving the retention Pond they're opposed the whole thing yeah okay yeah they're opposed here we're not really voting on anything no so I guess my question would be to Kevin if you guys are not voting on it or really are you going to have any discussion on it do we need it on here so really they just flipflop the site of the pond right put the pond closer to Harvard they took out that build yes so there were things they had to do um per the commission per the development order which was remove that um future office building so so that they could um apply to F do for Ingress and egress and not just an Ingress that they had before so they've done that but they also um because they had a bit more space tried to be good neighbors and moved the building closer to the Eastern property line they own the property on the other side of that property line and they reposition the storm waterer Pond yeah well I know we're not voting on it but I think because of the public that comes with it we would just basically I guess instead of maybe saying discussion could maybe say updates or okay that's work you update from the committee on this um I just say you know um we did um put a sign out on the property yesterday because some of the calls that we had had um you know accused us of doing things without letting anybody know and I was asked a few weeks ago if we would put a sign out on the property when we knew it was coming to the commission we knew yesterday that it was coming to the commission so we immediately went out and put a sign on the property okay man you're you're not asking for any vote for an actual amendment I mean they just they still comply with the development order they just relocated this yes okay see I just think it's just an update they more an update yeah okay we'll change that word all right number um or before number 12 any questions for Amanda about number 12 right number 13 um any additional input that you have on the uh the environment chapter um and I think Amy already Amy already sent red lines in to staff Vicki is that right yes I think she sent some in yeah okay did you have something commissioner VRE uh well in the copy that I got it still stated Washington County they haven't made any Chang yeah we haven't made any changes yet yeah be so I RIT for nothing yes well this is you know every time this this used to be Washington County years ago remember it did I did not know that considering my grandfather was in the state legislature and made the motion for county to become a county but I didn't know that thanks Kevin I know so no is I don't think I don't think this ordinance is that old but yeah so it's going to be the same chapter until we update it and just seeing if there's you know additional input on that or citizens have has contacted anyone with u any ideas or additional input on it all right uh awesome I did meet with uh M Highlands resident last night guess we had about 30 35 people come out so filled up the chambers to talk about the speed bumps that are in uh in mood Highlands and uh they had a couple of recommendations we had a very um good discussion on that um and so there'll be some recommendations or some solutions that they would like for us to propose to the um tra traff Safety Committee um guess their their question would be um in regards to those Solutions how would they because they're not in HOA so I guess the question is because they're not in HOA they wanted to know we talk about this more later but just getting it out there so we can all so you can all staff and think about it is what would the staff consider um the voice of M Highlands so is it m Holland's doing a Facebook survey and a certain percentage responding to that is it something that need to be done door too and you know you know so many responses from the door too so that the city would know that it's a majority or consensus of a response from M Hollands versus three or four citizens or 15 to 20 citizens I think one of the things is we when it comes to the safety of the public we look at the data the data is what we looked at um and and so that's that's what makes the decision here um we listen to a lot of voices from a lot um many neighborhoods but when we put the uh machine out there and we observe it it doesn't come back as this needs that so we don't do it it's just a lot of the data that goes on from there so so so so I think one of the questions was regarding the actual and I understand that's not answering our question as to or the community's question as to with any response or any question that they have um for example if there is hey we we're going to do this or that what is the are you want to hear what what how would you know it's the majority of the response to yeah if it was something else besides the speed bump surely we would hear from those residents um you know directly uh we not particularly Facebook because that's just sometimes inaccurate but we would hear from those residents in terms of them sending us emails um or whatever that may be but um that's normally how how we would would gauge that so you prefer a door-to-door survey then normally we don't many I'm not saying that you do the door to door survey oh okay how many internally oh yeah neighborhood could absolutely do what they want I guess what we're asking is right now 5500 houses so right now the city so here here's a concern is that the city moved on you moved on the data but in response to three or four citizens or 10 citizens so then if the city proposes solutions to say hey these are some options or some Solutions on continuing to mitigate or manage speed in M Highlands how many people would you all want to hear from in that regards to the response or or do you just want to just say hey we don't care what M no we definitely care but we can't ignore the data either and and that's that's part of I mean it for for folks that are about you know how we make decision surely we can't just throw that data aside and and and not look at the fact that there was someone speeding up to 57 58 miles per hour and um you know that's that's part of it um when we have an HOA so so HOAs are are very very different we can take those HOAs the presidents and all of the folks that are on the HOA they are speaking for that Community then we do something a little bit different here like the HOA that called us that's next door she says now we're getting your speeding problems because people are are dodging the bumps speed bump and coming down our way well when we did that data there um there were a few but not that data didn't didn't really uh say that there's a lot of speeders that's going through the next neighborhood there and we called the ho to let them know that and they were very thankful but we still did put someone out there to watch the traffic um and so that's that's so I guess right I think we understand that I think again the question is because we're not a HOA then how do you how do how does m Highlands at any instance whether it's this issue or any issue how do un how do un how do non HOA neighborhoods convey the majority or the voice of the community is it through survey on their Facebook group and say hey we've had this many responses is it through a daughter you normally you normally get like a petition and then somebody goes around the neighborhood and has everybody sign the petition okay that's what we've seen like in in Callaway it's a you get a petition you know it's 10 pages long and all these people signed up and they make the request so normally it's like that so somebody in that neighborhood without an HOA has to go door too and have ask people to sign a petition they turn that in so that's that's all the community is asking is what is a what is the valid process that the city's going to look at and say hey yeah we can consider this valid for M High yeah I just didn't want to tell that Community what to do I mean if somebody brings us surely like we you ask us to do for Splash Pad how many people used it so we went out and we did that that survey there you're not going to do the survey I I no I know but understand that but they want to know I understand that what's some more what what is the what will be the official see and I can't that's that's a blanket that's for that Community but it may not for this community that's what I'm saying so I I don't can't tell you that I just can't and I would say what the the more common practice would be is your traditional petition you know have a line piece of paper and have everybody who wants to sign it sign it as opposed to like a Facebook poll or something like that they do internally you know there's no right or wrong way to do it but that's that's more of a traditional way that we've seen in in other communities all right sounds great what's the data can I add something the data says that there's a serious speeding problem I don't know if anybody's um thought about this but I just want to bring it up when you're looking for solutions for Speeders if you're considering speed bumps just remember that can slow down your First Responders it can also be hard on vehicles like fire trucks ambulances garbage trucks our big heavy expensive Vehicles so I just ask everybody think about that when you're looking for Solutions thank you y what about speed humps the speed hump how's the speed humps effect emergency vehicle not as bad as a speed bump but I mean they'll they'll slow us down and and they can jar a truck pretty bad speed bumps are harder on the vehicles and speed humps but they they'll all affect us a little bit okay yeah I think if you do if you do something I think it would be a hump not a not a bump you speed bump you see in a parking lot it would be a speed pump if you did anything correct one of the reasons you have the bumps there is because you can actually take them up once that uh pump goes down I mean that's that's construction so yeah it's you're right but we ran into this I think in Callaway and those those bumps even there's all sorts of issues with those because it even though they're I don't I don't think they really meet like unless it's like I said unless it's like in a parking lot or something it doesn't really meet like your your do and DHS andb standards like the ideal thing to slow speeding would be a the hump which but I agree you're you're laying some asphalt down and you know it's about $3 or $4,000 to do one as opposed to $700 yeah well but they they make speed humps that you can lay down similar to speed bups yeah we do have some um additional ones that are like not so invasive um yeah we we could surely um look at those or we can take them out all together if the commission directs us to take them take them out we will take them I I don't think the I don't think the consensus of the group was not to mitigate speeding of course commissioner Ward was I don't I don't think the group doesn't want the city to do something to enforce speeding I think the group wants speeding enforced right whether that's through law enforcement enforcement temporary you know so I think I think because of the data no one's denying that speeding is an issue right so you know the data is presented now is there some argument with the data sure but it's it's very minimal um there's definitely an issue there I don't think anybody's arguing that yeah but I've seen I've seen those speed humps that they lay down I've seen them at gates at on different bases and they have there for quite a while and they get a lot of traffic so they work they so yeah but I'll follow with more from the from the community um any other discussions or concerns from the commission um I have been approached by citizen uh to um to discuss with the commission about the possibility of uh allowing alcohol in uh public places for private events only I'll be through Vicki sending you the information uh don't want to discuss it I just want you to think about it for a discussion later on yeah maybe talk with citizens and see how they feel about it it's it would be very um limited only for private events and so you say private events in public places what does that mean uh you would have to apply to uh like rent The Garden Club with the stipulations so would it be limited to the Garden Club or no entire city any city park or city building even a street like if you were going to close the street and somebody was had applied to use it for uh I don't know October Fest or something like that so like if you rent The Garden Club and you have a small wedding reception you're not allowed to bring beer wine in there that is correct sh I broke the law about 20 years ago well law might rules might have been different fact it was because it wasn't own by us I think it's something by some others yeah um I uh I've been getting some phone calls about uh some code enforcement issues and um normally when I get that uh first thing I tell them is contact code enforcement um feedback I've been getting is they've been contacting them and that's when I tell them to send a city manager an email um and I'm just saying this so that we're kind of all on the same page and and this is the way I I kind of feel about it when I talk to people I was like when you contact code enforcement my recommendation you don't have to do this is don't call them email them and the reason I say that is if you email them you have a you have a record right got it cuz you know some people will sit there and say yeah I contact him mle times but you don't have any proof for that you know so that's what I tell them I like you know call code enforcement or not call email code enforcement that way you get a record of it and if you don't get anywhere then uh Next Step contact city manager city manager get involved um I told him feel free to CC us if you want you want to CC the Commission in that um but um I don't know if you guys been getting any phone calls calls or emails but what's the complaint um not following through or they don't see a result so they came so there's a few houses that um basically nothing's been done to them the grass is overgrown I think they're vacant um uh inoperable vehicle um RV someone living in the RV across the street um that's the only ones I can think of off the top of my head I think those are some of the ones and I totally agree with uh commissioner War definitely email it's code enforcement at cenh haven.com um that also gives us record of who is making the complaint and so that's part of the problem is people trying to do it anonymously you can't do it Anonymous you you can't you have to give your name and and um so and they probably don't leave their name when they're making these complaints so they may and I I don't know I'm I'm not sure if those are addressed because they don't have a complaintant and we can't take Anonymous complaints so I I love the idea and would encourage that idea of doing that or they can call me and I'm I'm going you know going to ask their name and turn that in you do have to allow nous complaints but like I think when your point you're it's hard to follow up on those or know that are being satisfied you have nobody to talk to but Kev I thought the statue just changed that you could not take anymore did it just change it again I know it changed not too long ago to say it could be okay all right I got that's even better then you yeah that's a good point um usually sometimes I have that conversation when they say something and i' be like yeah you can't be anonymous when you do a complaint and I explain that whole thing and I explain to it's not a it's the state that that made that rule so I had an issue with a citizen and it was with their neighbor and uh uh Brian Brian C Forman had already you know it was just a question of getting the Neighbors on the same page and it it was you know it was handled it was and and and you know system's happy and you know the neighbor realized what what what had to be done and they were getting it fixed so it's easy as it's as easy as is a simple communication but true good enforcement as soon as you put them on the task they they usually are right there man like I always say if you don't have it in writing yeah never happen writing's good I had I had a text Trail and and then city manager he does text as well is it privileged information on the person that made the complaint or is it public it's public um yeah I think that all be that would all be public okay um I had someone that reached resident reached out to me uh the other day and I didn't have the answer I didn't know what the answer was but when hurricane Helen came through I know we had people that were on the clock had to work extra hours and that um did that cost the city any money by doing that did it yeah everyone that works that's considered a essential worker according to um the uh the policy you guys passed that everyone that's working that day uh gets time and a half right yeah um is there any way is there any how hard would it be to find out how much extra it cost the City by I think he can pull that information for you very very quickly um and where does that money come from I can run that report in about 2 minutes the last time I looked at it we were in the $90,000 range $770,000 for salaries and $220,000 for supplies and Expendable equipment sand sandbags um lime that kind of stuff and then we spent I think it was close to $3,000 for food for the staff that was here uh but the primary expense was uh the salar is about $70,000 and it's unbudgeted so it's considered an emergency which makes perfect sense um and it it will come out of general fund eventually I have set up a separate fund and um it our short hand for it is 105 you heard us talk about 101 for Hurricane Michael now this will be 105 uh and this is the very first time that the city's been able to track the salary expenses associated with disaster so in the future God forbid if we have another large event we will much more readily be able to um apply for reimbursement for those salary costs you say apply for reimbursement from state from from FMA oh we get reimbursed for that yeah okay as long as we have it documented there's a specific Federal Form that has to be filled out and we have to tell them hours and what the person was doing and what equipment they were using and they were at it's rather complex so to do that got the yeah got you on the timer two minutes do you want it today or you to bring it to you on Tuesday no one Tu days thank you and just remember once uh it is declared by you all in um a state of emergency um then that's when that happens and not all staff work that day only essential employees work okay um last thing I had I know I brought this up a couple years ago um when we had the uh Charter Review Committee and I didn't really push it too much because I felt the charter Review Committee did a good job on it and I didn't really want to taint what they're trying to do but uh I brought up uh about the city clerk right now the way I understand city clerk basically fall under a city manager and uh so normally most cities either have it set up where the city clerk falls on the city manager or it falls on the City Commissioner me personally I feel it should fall under the city commission I think it helps uh uh helps with transparency should fall on the city commission what's that what city clerk but they changed the charter and removed it the the charter committee did didn't they well it says city manager clerk in the charter right it's just say city manager our Charter it's more of a combin you Jamie's right we don't we don't have a city clerk as a charter officer right so that would to be a yeah it another Charter Amendment because it'd be a charter officer that's a direct report but um I thought the charter committee removed the word clerk they did and it's just I think they did they did and it's just um known that the city manager also the CL right that's what I'm getting at so that's what I'm getting at is I think it I personally think you know that that's a charter review question for the and that's supposed to come up in five years every they can bring it up but we can bring it up also there's nothing then it has to go through referendum again it does the the voters would have to vote yeah it would it would be I mean because yeah because you'd be to create that you direct report to the commission that be deemed a charter officer like the city manager City attorney now you do not have to wait for you know a charter Review Committee or anything obviously the commission can say hey we want to we want to propose this and create the position and create the the ballot question and put it on the put it on the next election and do it um you yeah you don't have to wait but um yeah it would be a charter officer so that would have to get put into the charter so I kind of want to just kind of open up for discussion and see what you guys thought about that um so what are the advantages of having so with them so this is what I did when I originally looked at it originally I tried to call as many cities as I could that kind of was similar to Lin Haven especially like one big thing was po population size and when I originally started calling all these City Clerks I typically and I and I found out not long after I started doing it and I had to call some of them back is that whatever system they were under they were like yeah it's a good system whatever the one that they pick and that's the only one that they know and eventually I called enough where I found I think it was about a half a dozen of them that have done both they've been under the city manager or administrator and they've been under the city Commission and I ask him the pros and cons which one do you think um is a better option that you experience with and unanimously all six of them said being under the city Commission because now they're a separate entity from the from the city um from the city as a since they're under the city commission and they wouldn't and basically you know city clerk Duties are like the agendas the minutes um public record Quest um proclamations that the mayor reads you know a lot of it clerical Duty type thing um and the reason for that is um when lost my turn of thought there when you have it separate like that having that separate I'll just say it Michael White remember we had Michael White right we had a lot of problems and I feel and this is one of the feedbacks I get from the six that I talked to is by them falling under the city commission they feel they're more apt to speak out on something if they don't see something and I'm not accusing the city of doing anything legal or ethical that's not what I'm getting at trying to look in the future but I'm trying to learn from the past of what happened when we had Michael white as a city manager and they'd be more apt to say something if they're under the city Commission Now if you had city manager like Michael White how app would it be able to come out and say something about that and they're in a good position to do that because of all the information that flows to them all the contracts all the agreements the development orders everything so they get to see a lot of that stuff and they're in good position if they do see something to bring it up so and I'm just trying to protect the city in the future because Miss Gainer won't be here forever you know um I just think that's and and I did uh contact UM I didn't know that but there's like a Florida city clerk Association there is and I called I called and I talked to the executive director about it and I and I I explained to her I was doing research on this and I asked her if there was any studies or data or statistics on any of this stuff and um there was no studies or anything but she did have some stats that um there was one where they ask a question who does a city clerk report to in your city um if uh city manager if they report the city manager administrator it's about 54% of municipalities if they fall under city council commission it's about 41% uh about 7% following the mayor and then 2% or other whatever that might be so um I it's not uncommon to do this but I I just think it it be good for our city um to go that direction yeah I'm surprised by those stats I would think it would be more common to have it as a charter officer that's what we see around here but yeah that's that's interesting that's 54 41 I know Callaway they have a city clerk falls under the commission Panama City has a city clerk that falls under the commission I'm not sure about Panama City Beach if that one is or not so it's not uncommon but I like having it as a separate entity because they and they do all the public records requests too so all the public record requests go to City cler and being a s such a separate entity I think is important so what would I do with those employees that already have those that job they're kind of because you have a contract grance manager then you have um CJ that does and it does said that I can designate someone to do um those cloak duties which is that she does right now she types 95 words uh per minute I don't know if anybody else can probably do that um development orders are actually under planning um if if you will so I mean development orders would still go through planning but the paperwork would still go to the clerk so I I don't know I don't know I guess is it yeah you you wouldn't honestly change a whole I mean like just take for example CJ and the commission would just they would be in charge of hiring her and they would appoint her as the city clerk right all and all the other employees there still fall under it gets a little bit tricky but it normally works all the other employees still fall under the city manager but you kind of like you know they they'll almost be like a department head for like chain of command purposes but their their boss is the the city clerk but you you would still be in charge of all of their employees you would sort of assign those to cl's department and they would have people underneath them um so I do know in our policy it says that if there were ever something that was going on and this was not in place when when Michael was here um that this emplo any employee will go to the attorney to report that to um if there was something nefarious going on with the city manager that was not in place when Mr White was here and now it is in place so that's where they would go but that's and like I said I'm not accusing the city of anything I'm not accusing them doing anything illegal or ethical I just I I remember a couple of years ago I do remember the discussion I think we discussed it probably several meetings um or you know we discussed it more than for for one time I guess one of the concerns is that um what type of tension would that create um by not having the clerk under the city manager with that person being basically the the head of the employees what type of work environment would that create and what type of potention would that create where essentially I don't have to do what you say because that's what it because nobody will be able to manage that person while you all are not here and we know that your jobs are part you know part taught and you have other things that you have to do so who met manages that person when you're you're not or not why they like it so this is true right so some what what does that what does that create I mean that means that person just like the city manager had five bosses just like the city manager has yeah and honestly you almost you kind of just have to get lucky with your staff I mean c went through four city clerks in about a year so um so that's what of and some some of it got pretty ugly but Al there's also been some that you know it was smooth for many many years so I mean that's you can't really can't really answer that this just depends on the who you pick well what I would suggest if if you're going down this road there is a difference in clerks and clerk functions what I'm hearing is a ministerial function um so when you go and talk to a city clerk you need to make clear what is the function how many positions are under that office or that position and what is their actual UH responsibilities it varies throughout the state large and wide in my initial look and um that way then if you go forward we could look at an organizational structure again I see it as a duplication of of efforts at this point um a duplication that will cost the city money um by doing a duplication meaning if there's an office suddenly the clerk needs an assistant who needs a Record Keeper and someone who's responsible in public records where now we share the load um but I think that's an important research component is to look at the actual functions and functionality of what you're looking at how much does it cost to have something put on the ballot I know it's yeah it does it cost something I'll have to get that answer for you but it it does cost I think it depends whether it's a special I mean if it's total special depends on when the election but if you put it in line with the actual election I want say it's like 3 or 4,000 well not only that we'd have to cover that up it would be a special election so all of the um all of the uh contract volunteers they call them volunteers that run the election would be a cost to this the city well if you lined it up with the municipal election you could line up with that yeah and usually what's the salary range of a work it varies from City to city and size of the city and again the functionality yeah yeah I think I think cway is around around 60 or so and and then if they get like you know you can get certified as a you know certified municipal clerk and it's a little bit of a bump but I'm sure like the beach is probably higher and Pen city is probably higher um you know I would say 60 to 80 yeah that's about what I found researched it I was going to say 70 but 60 something that would truly be an expense for for the city so I guess to to Jennifer's point though we wouldn't just be hiring a clerk we would be hiring an entire staff to go along with the clerk if depending on what duties we ask to again it depends on on the functionality of of that office um and what the expectation is um right now we spread that that work across existing staff therefore then there would have to be an analysis based on what is the work and the duties is that appropriate for one or are there multiple persons and how do they report I can't answer specifically without having more detail information to go research for you because it it almost and I'll just be very honest with you if it would almost eliminate a staff to put a city clerk there and um you know that be a transition you would have to do and um so commissioner if you could help me understand again the big picture of it this cour position would do so when I look down line of like other cities what they do it's mainly clerical stuff so like for instance maintaining the official record of the city uh prepare an agenda minutes to the commission board and committees administer the oath of office prepare the proclamations for the mayor uh facilitate Municipal elections by working with the supervisor election and preparing the city issues for ballot uh they'd be the custodian custodian public records for all Departments of the city and fulfill any public record request to have uh coordinate appointment to advisory boards and committees uh post Public Notices as required by law and authenticate all official legislative actions such as ordinances resolutions and contracts so so in part of those duties that he just read off are my are my duties as well right and so so I would think if this is something that we want to thank you um I would think this is something that we want to have more discussion about and deeply consider um I think first if there's a consensus with us not necessarily today but I would ask the charter Review Committee to reconvene because you're going to need some community support for on the the referendum I would ask them to reconvene to look back at it because what we're describing is basically what the C that those are the duties of the city manager so we're I guess basically saying splitting these duties I guess creating another position outside of the city manager that reports to the commission um which would then of course go back and change the charter um which ideally would have been the time to do it when we had the charter Review Committee I brought it the charter Review Committee decided that they didn't think that a city clerk was necessary but they did and if you remember they did they definitely discussed it several times they did definitely discussed it and they didn't think that that was necessary but they did think that at some point I needed to appoint assist and city manager and that's what I did that was absolutely there was one person on there talked about the um the clerk but the majority of the charter reviews did not think that a city clerk was necessary yeah that would be one thing I would say we would push it to them as well and get some feedback from them also in that regard to to look at I I just wanted to bring up discussion and see what the rest of you guys think well I'm going have to look into that yeah of course the pros and cons okay I course uh anything else for for discussion yes I have a couple of things yes um storm water this the commission probably needs to give us some direction in terms of what you're looking for for storm water to update the storm water assessment uh because I don't want us to get right there at the end or near the end and then we're trying to make changes so we really need to be thinking about uh in terms of storm order when we we start meeting with Stant and we're going to start that um within the next month we're going to set up set up a meeting with them um do we want to continue with impervious or do we want to go um the route of improvement value based off of the assess assessment or do we want to look at something else so um that's that that's an area we truly need to I think we address probably need to have a workshop on it know a commission Workshop not necessar a public Workshop but a commission Workshop to really discuss it before we can provide definitive direction to the to the city or the staff only that we want to look at so that's what I would suggest because I don't think a commission meeting or even a pre-commission workshop gives us enough time to really discuss all the different nuances and questions and variables that um that we've had previously that we have now since it's been going so I would say I think it's going to generate a lot of discussion so I think we need Workshop to discuss that I think the Citizens need to know how we spent the money I mean they've done a lot you know they've done for example I'm just using this as an example um so many miles of cleaning out ditches and so many repairs of of um 8 in pipes or you know whatever but they they the Citizens need to know how we use the money and that there's still a lot lot to to do yeah Andis you know that we've done this I think the citizens just need to be reminded that you know it's a constant thing it is you're absolutely right commissioner like you're never ever done no you're never done he'll do that storm water update that's on there to do so he'll do some storm water updates um for that and he has done that for the past year given those storm water updates that was I think directed by the commission for him to give updates done a really really good job um and you know just a lot of people many residents are just not tuned in to it but some are so we try to get that word out but he will do a storm water update and maybe there's something in a paragraph that we could include in the newsletter or on the website is is what we can do because the only ones that are hearing the update I'm not saying it's the responsibility of the city but the only ones hearing the update are those that are tuning in to the to the actual meeting itself yeah sure that's a good idea in the newsletter maybe you could highlight you know various departments what they're doing can do that um so yeah so you say we in the next month you need need with stand teex so then we would need to have a workshop within the next couple of weeks then we're already meeting with Stan Tech we're year two in this process of is it a fouryear we're in in we're in year three see that was before my time yeah yeah we have three yeah we're in year three but we're in year two of the fiveyear plan you know we we we did one year then we froze it the next year and then we did like a 5year plan okay so you're three of the assessment you're two of the fiveyear plan so we got to get them Direction early and I know one of the things was what one commissioner the two one of two Commissioners is that we not have this and seem like it's rushed so I'm I'm trying to start early idea to get things um on board for you all I think the other thing um because I remember we had discussed this before if we put it on a utility bill how much would you have to pay a year and I'm trying to remember I seems like it was like $350 $400 a year or something if I remember right so you're not hitting everybody right Property Owners is a bigger net right um I think it' be good to have that in our back pocket for when a resident ask about that how much how much would it cost if we had to put it back on the utility but that's the number I remember it seems like it was about $350 $400 a year yeah can't we sprad it out over all theity owners all utility own yeah CU you're missing your vacant properties right some of your other yeah that's or just something living in it so we miss our vacant properties and all of those things and that was um one of the reasons you're exactly right people ask me that sometimes and I'm like I don't remember the exact number but seem like it50 $400 a year R um correct and I think this it it does work well for the assessment that one time and people just get it out of the way then we have the money there m um that we can start to use for all of these mainten and it's things that we we need to do um because remember when someone moves out or they closes an account then we don't get that money right yeah um so that's that's going to be very big but that was my my big thing is just this is we do need to look at this now okay well we guess I'll follow it with you see if you can May some different for a workshop we need to get Sam to explain his yeah and that was I talked to commissioner PE and um when he gets back yeah going to meet again to explain his um and then we were going to um after he explain we kind of know what he wants yeah to see if stand that something stac would um take on a recommend if that's something the commission would want to look at so maybe our pre meeting maybe on November pre meeting in November maybe since the time we all conven Avail maybe just make that for stor just you know just try to be prepared to celebrate longer that's time that we're already coming typically that we come together almost Friday morning is that good for everybody what's the DAT of that November 7th I think November 7th okay yeah November 8th I think November 8 okay so we would plan on a longer meeting that day bring a sandwich bring yeah so we plan to be here from you know and we'll probably actually i' be happy with just coffee so we'll probably just do maybe like a with you prepare for 9 to 12 that day and and not have a pre-commission meeting and just prepare for that storm water Workshop yeah so we don't have to come at 8 yes Y no no no pre-commission yet just workshop at oh so you're just going to do 9:00 right yeah not scheduled for 9 to 12 hope we be do by we're not going to go over the agenda we don't have one meeting that month right so there's going to be more on the agenda probably we just go over just go over at 9 okay so we we'll do agend we'll do a pre meeting and a work so we'll go over the agenda yeah if we just schedule that now that way we're just want to make sure we're let with coffee yeah just remember um it's commissioner with the coffee Comm coffee with the Commissioners on Monday at 700 a.m. and um you still need to if you haven't judged you who chose 7 a.m. that's when people were either before kid just I'm going to be in a in a bandage but if you can make it thank you