##VIDEO ID:u202hUFLR_c## our pre-commission meeting to order at 8:01 a.m. uh let's look at our consent agenda there any updates from additional input regarding the minutes consent agenda and any questions regarding uh the voting machine for to and off all right so everybody's good with that um looking at our old business um just be revising and the ordinances related to cross connection and back flow prevention I think that's pretty straightforward so it's got final reading so we'll vote on that at that time any questions on that one you all still get any calls about that flow where you still get any thoughts all right moving on to new business we'll hold number 11 for last and just go through the other ones now um let's look at number 12 discussion of possible approval of resolution to obligate funds received under the rescue American Rescue plan act Finance I did prepare a resolution but there isn't one in this package so I'll make sure I send it to you we'll make sure we get there y is it it it is the what it does is obligate um the arpa money that you had previously obligated to for stormw projects we are OB obligating specifically to repayment or payment pay off of the 17th Street ditch note and then all of the remaining funds will just go to the storm water department for miscellaneous projects because you have to use it by December 31st 2026 the four projects that are currently obligated will be finished by then so the finance committee has recommended using that money re obligating that those ARA funds for this purpose so how much money will be left over after we pay the 17th Street p uh close to a half a million dollars there's currently uh 4 $44,900 th000 available the money is in a separate bank account it earns about $20,000 in interest every month so I can't give you an exact number but as um Miss Meer said we want to move the entire balance into the storm water department pay off the 17th Street ditch note which is at about 4.4 I think and then the balance will just Revitalize the cash flow um storm water department is in a negative cash position right now of about a million dollars which is five and a half months worth of money we we received the um first assessment from it was $212,000 so so we haven't receed the all the assessments from um the prop the tax collector yeah thank you any other questions on that I have a question was there two pots of money paying for the 17th Street and maybe I'm showing my ignorance here yeah wasn't there a sir tax money paying for 17th Street no no what was that paying for what road the S tax money pays primarily for Paving there are some other projects in that are being paid for by S tax but primarily we use that for Paving we paved 17th Street one of the last projects so that's probably where the confusion came from it was part of the appropriation of us ping 1 Street any other questions on that one all right mov on to number 13 possible approval of the resolution extend the city L Havens Finance review ad hoc committee any questions on that one we discussed it couple of times all right number 14 discussion of possible approval for the budget adjustment for fiscal year 2425 um Chris would you come up and tell what your projects are for for the um budget and then Bobby will come up and talk the as well so for the budget resolution we um that will cover the next few items on the agenda for the the sewer machine uh the Jetter trailer uh the Westside outfall um engineering study that also uh cleans up some money that we're going to approve the well 3 raw water line we're had $250,000 in the budget we're shifting some money in the water uh budget to cover the extra $56,000 that that project is going to cost so it's budget neutral in the water department sewer we're using some money from uh reserves to pay for that jedar trailer we also have the Ninth Street um term lanes that we're adding to the budget and then a bunch of cleanup um rollovers from last year and then it will cover the the difference here in the arpa um to utilize that money I think that's all of our projects so does this increase our budget by 1.1 million then yes you have enough money for that well as you see some of those are carryover from from last year that we did not have enough uh funds is am I correct designated for this year but some of those carry over carry over funds according to the bud this item on the budget is significant one's like 300,000 one's like 400 and something, that's just because of the amount of work that was completed prior to the corre last fiscal year ending for example um the parking lot out here American sand didn't invoice many um invoices before the budget ended and so that rolled over as well as the paving CW showed up they started work and then they kind of went stagnant and then right at the end they did it all at one time so this was budgeted for the prior fiscal year correct and rolling over the only ones that were not budgeted were the the the water projects that was this fiscal year this um Jetter trailer was not it was at in this budget resolution for this fiscal year and then the additional um that wasn't budgeted the additional money for stch for the storm water and then our Ninth Street in Ohio intersection we had the money last year for the planning but we didn't put the money for the construction this fisal year so we're adding that as part of this resolution so I guess my question is is that that rollover money is that why when you look at the I think it's page 38 on ours when it shows the Citywide total the change from the approved to the proposed now is much less than the 1.1 it's like 400,000 because some of it is coming out of reserves okay so there's a differential there all right any additional questions on number 14 and does everyone know what the night Street project is I don't think we talked about that Bobby would you come and and give an update on that project project is right here at this intersection and it is to create turn Lanes so there'll be two lanes on the east side and the West Side designated Lanes good we had with do officially yeah everybody does it but really creates but you almost run into each other creates a lot of accidents out there so it's going to Define it much better yeah and we fdot finally approved that to happen yes so it's already been engineered this the construction dollars and it's ready to go to bid once this is approved so M any other questions moving on to number 15 discussion of possible approval to authorize staff to create an asset any questions for that one this is a sewing machine no it's a it's a sewer machine this is the trer said sew right so when they used to create asset numbers quite odd um but it is um it goes in a Sewer Lateral if you have a a clog and it Jets it out um the one we have is purchased in 2007 it's just reached its end of life it needs about $30,000 worth of repairs um they're going to give us a7500 trade in value and then we'll purchase a new one and it cost anywhere from $800 to $1,600 if we have to call a company to do this it's fancy sing machine okay moving on to number 16 authoriz manager to sign a Tas with u Engineers to serve and analyze Main Avenue Maryland Avenue in 19th Street 14th Street for additional storm water outfalls and this one is you know we've talked about for several years as part of the adding to our storm water master plan there's been I think three to five homes that have FL have been documented that they flooded um over the past few years this project is just a study and analyze how many outfalls we can add in the North Ridge area which is from Maine Avenue to Maryland and then from 19th to 14th Street and so doberry will come in they'll survey all of that area and then they'll analyze where we can put the outfalls and then we'll bring bring it back hopefully for a task order next fiscal year to design and then to construct it and it's about it's actually about a $5 billion construction uh project so outfalls some outfalls are man-made or are they all manmade so years I mean there are some natural ones that that have been there for years but back in 2020 we added an outfall that goes down 15th Street it collects at Vermont Avenue and then it goes through the unimproved RightWay of 15th and dumps out into into that value there there's an outfall at 19th in uh Rhode Island and then there's another outfall at the end of Vermont Avenue at the very North End at 11th Street dumps out there and that's really all of the outfalls that are in that area you have some that drain down Maryland um to 14th to Northshore and then kind of make their way out but there really needs more outfalls for the amount of storm water that's collected through there that subdivision was built with no curbs no gutters and hardly any storm water infrastructure during that time is this the one that will solve problems that uh that Mr car was having you it's the one that we hope will solve the problems that Mr Right There correct yeah do you have does EPA ever give you a problem about making these men made outfalls potentially yes and part of the legislative storm water uh project that we have that's in the core permitting we're on our fourth RFI I believe um so yes they may say you're not putting an outfall here or you may have to provide some more adequate treatment or something so we won't know that until we get into the permitting phase any other questions on that one right 17 discussion in the Poss approval to the bid for the well three raw qu main to CW Roberts any questions on that one all right number 18 application for amendment to development order wor they Haven Charter Academy they want to build another batting cage just give us some highlights on it sorry yeah if you could give us a few highlights okay so in 2018 they got their development order for their athletic fields and they were also going to build a Fieldhouse with lots of bits and pieces in there um they hadn't last year by last year they'd put all the athletic fields in the infrastructure and everything but they had not um constructed their Fieldhouse and so they um approached the city and asked if they said they weren't going to do the Fieldhouse could they put a bat and cage and you know the difference in the impervious is huge I mean the field house is so much bigger than a batting cage so um we had said um if they give us a letter stating they're definitely not going to do the Fieldhouse then they could go ahead and do the batting cage so that's what happened we got a letter from Larry Ballinger um saying they weren't in to do field house they constructed their batting cage well now they've come back and they want another batting cage so we're like who whoa hold on a minute so we don't know you know how far this could go what they're not going to do the Fieldhouse but how much extra are they going to say that they want to make up that impervious so I felt like I wasn't comfortable um saying go ahead without bringing it to you so that you know that that original development order has H uh they are amending it so that we've got that in the record we've got it in the file and also you make the decision on whether you want to allow them to do that or not right any additional questions thank you thank you um I guess just hold on one second got number 19 um application order for uh for development order 826 Florida Avenue um if you give us a highlight of that please so this is Jared noise and his wife they bought that house across from Victoria's last bite that used to be a beautiful building used to be split up though into apartments and offices inside um and had also over the years with the previous owners been built onto the back without permits there was a not very good uh structure like a pole barn thing built on the back of it so when Jared noise uh bought the property he took that down um and he would like to put a new structure up on the back um but then he came to us and realized he was going to have to apply for a development order in order to do all that he bought the little property next to him the little strip next to him for parking just a little narrow so there's two Parcels um he has submitted the development order in the process of going through the engineering um his Engineers realized there was no way he was going to be able to meet the storm water requirements that we have the parcel just isn't big enough uh but he was saying well you know there was a big building on there and I just want to put back what was on there but better and make it nice and he wants to put um The Slice House people that are downtown the pizza slice house want to go in there and also W rout would like to go in there so um we took it to the board of adjustments because they said they could get uh or apply for a state exemption on the storm water it was just our portion of what we required um and so uh he took it to the board of adjustments for a variance on it and the board of adjustments granted the variance so he does not have to meet our storm water requirements um and um he has applied for his exemption it went to the Planning Commission on Tuesday and they voted unanimously for approval uh so now it is coming to you and if you have any questions regarding the exemption then um Chris can answer the stor War questions for you so even if we approve it it has to go to the State no we cannot hold up a development order pending state permits so you go ahead and do what you're going to do approve it or deny it and then if he were not to get his permit but construct it and he didn't get his permit the state would take him to task but he still has to get approved from state right yes he approve it if we do approve it then he has to go to the state yes and he's applied to the state I don't know how long that'll take though we don't know how long it it could take they could get it next week could be um is there any storm water problems over there no sir we haven't had any issues in that area um it all flows pretty well never had any standing water in the roadways or any buildings to my knowledge so you don't foresee it being a problem warm water no sir enir okay also wanted to add that um the the we we require a hard dust free surface as you know um for parking but if the road if a street isn't going to be um ours then or the driveway isn't going to be ours they don't have to meet our technical standards so where his parking is along the side he's actually using perious pavers so it'll be hard but the water and they're more expensive the water will drain down through he's using concrete for the handicap but he has to keep the the driveway gravel because otherwise he can't meet are are impervious surface requirements so they have really put their heads together and thought about it and tried to do it to to to meet our requirements as best as they can um so yeah okay thank you you're welcome any other questions on that one going back to I have a question about the warrant list okay um just some of the um expenses you know um I have a habit of zeroing in on large amounts so um the Region's Bank I assume that's a payment for loans it's a bond payment yes ma'am okay uh and there's Insurance rdk assets Incorporated that was the knuckle boom trucks the what the knuckle knuckle [Music] booms the trucks we approve yeah I didn't hear the knuckle part um American sand we're still getting what to do this out here yes ma'am Exxon Enterprises Exon Enterprises how far down oh Midway those are police tasers that was budgeted it yes it was man tasers are expensive that's 27 of them good Lord you want them to work oh yeah ni said no clue yeah don't want them to malfunction there's two to American sand that's a lot of sand but I imagine we put a lot of sand out there okay um green South Solutions you've told me that before $189,000 for the pond liner and the rest I believe was um fledge removal the 189 is to close out that and uh Garber Fleet that was um a water truck and a sewer track they doing that sled the are we packing it or whatever we a new machine last month running week now and you estimate that to save us some money so we don't have to haul off the sludge hopefully we will have a better estimate on that after we establish a a better run schedule yeah and can differentiate between the and all right I and I do have a question another question or should I wait till it has it kind of has something to do with this but can then kind of not okay the mayor's going oh no not another question from Branda GFF um I don't it's just something I don't understand okay when something's an emergency and we have have to spend money okay and it's it might be higher than the 35,000 okay um it's when we hear about it it's here for the warrant list no normally we will bring that to you after we have done that say if it happens over a weekend yeah yeah I mean I know the emergencies I just I just want to understand the process yeah when we have those we bring that to you to let you know hey we had to go in and give them that okay to do it and um it was over this amount but they're still not getting paid until we approve it because it so we're only typically only paying twice a month is when we when we get our warrant list so that over weekend emergency will still come to us for approval before the check is actually written yes that's the the process supposed to be yes okay just wonder all right going back to agenda item number 11 resolution for approving the Second Amendment of the city manage agreement City attorney this is my item this is something I initiated um it does five things um three of them are housekeeping and two of them are just sort of while we're here could we consider um the items that I consider to be housek keing that I initiated are um b c and d um regarding compensation issues specifically um so in B regarding um the salary uh right now Vicki is entitled to any Cola increases that are given to other employees generally um I understand you have several employee policies that apply to exempt or salar employees and I wanted to make clear here if it was the commission's intent that she be similarly entitled uh to those overtime and holiday pay uh at the same time and manner as given to those exempt City employee as an exempt City employee currently in your policies that's how staff is interpreting it I think that's a reasonable interpretation but it would make it clear in this contract that she is intended to be included in that class of employees in those policies that's the effect of this change um and see hours of work um you'll notice that she is expected to give a 40-hour work week with Municipal holidays accepted this past year you initiated a new event with the MLK event um which Vicki spent a lot of time and effort organizing and working the day of um because holidays are specifically Exempted from the work she has intended to do I'm trying to close that Gap here um by acknowledging for hours work by Vicki on Municipal holiday she'll be to receive compensation if um I guess we're clear to for the commission I believe we've already approved that we just didn't have it any right so you have for Martin Luther King specifically you did um approve a majority of you approved additional compensation to her so this will sort of ratify for all future holidays she may work um an action you have already taken specific to MLK Day this year um so it's a it's based on an action you have already taken and sort of extending it to all Municipal holidays she may work um but for all future mlks there won't have to be a separate correspondence to each of you asking is this okay um D has to do with the our car allowance um it's my understanding that during the 2024 budget year um y'all impr y'all approved an increase to her car allowance um that went from wherever she was to 750 I will say that this contract says 450 the piece of paper I had with the Personnel change actually indicated that you were getting at 375 so I don't know if y'all were underpaying her for the first several years of her contract um and that this catches it up I I don't know but I will say that this ratifies a $750 increase I believe was effective in October of 2024 with their that budget Year got it so again that's something we've already approved just clarifying it in the contract that's correct um that has already been approved by the commission um and then benefit plans A and E are two requests while we're here that we're asking for and let me say too these are all housekeeping things none of these are necessary and Vicki isn't providing the energy for this um this is just a housekeeping matter so if it doesn't go anywhere there's nothing fatal about that it gives me some predictability and it gives all future city managers and staff some predictability particularly with compensation um section a term um right now the keys employment agreement terminates January 13 2027 um she in she has indicated that her 10-year work anniversary is April 2027 so she has asked for an extension that would get her past that April date I put December this was my date just to get through the end of the calendar year that seemed cleanest um but again there's there's there's nothing hard and fast about that December date if you want to make it may or anytime after April that would suit Vicky's needs to get to her 10-year anniversary similarly with retirement in mind section e um has to do with the calculation of her retirement benefit um when she first negotiated this contract she asked for an accelerated vesting in the general employees pension program um and the commission agreed to consider an ordinance to accelerate that vesting the commission did ultimately approve that ordinance the flip side of that um has to do with the calculator and VI you may have to jump in here if I say it wrong um but the way that her retirement um is benefit is calculated I believe is still on a 10-year horizon or at least a horizon that doesn't match the accelerated vesting she now enjoys um as a 100% vested employee at the 5-year Mark so she is requesting that the commission consider an ordinance that corrects that disconnect between I'm already fully vested and yet my retirement benefit is is still being calculated um as if I were not on the 10e schedule which general employees are this would be specific to the city manager position and it would be a change if you adopt this Ordinance one that I hope your pension attorney I'm going to recommend do and not me so that it gets done correctly um but it'll apply for all future people who hold that city manager position um from my perspective this is a fairly um common thing to do given the volatility of a city manager position um but until cities get it in place it does require somebody to affirmatively ask for it and negotiate for it so that is why that is here if you don't do it that's fine you should expect though the next city manager to to ask again when we get to that point so got it um so I'm hearing you a b c d and e uh A and E really the new things that we're considering and b c and d some way somehow already been approved by by the commission though it just wasn't updated C andd reflect actions that have already been taken by the commission B to a lesser extent you've already adopted policies for predictability for myself and for staff um just having the commission confirm their intention that she be included in that class of employees I think would be helpful yeah are there any questions about a anything we want to discuss about a sense to me I think one of the things that does help um by extending to Jan well extending it from January to December allow that time to have thoral search be able to be done and that person doesn't necessarily have to come in you know on the heels or something but actually having giving this time to be able to search out for that person that's true so I think that that helps and transition and with e discussion with e not saying we can't discuss the other ones but those are actions we've basally already have taken in a discussion on E I I don't quite understand so right now at five year she's not getting the percentage that she should be getting if it was a 10e so going to ask Jennifer if you come up okay you think you want stay out of it okay I just don't understand pension calculations have um they have calculations and they have what's called a multiplier all pension calculations will have an average salary typically times a multiplier times years of service while the five years provided vesting it didn't take into account any uh the intent was that that would be calculated as if having 10 years by law you can't just add years what you do is you adjust the multiplier so take for example the state pension there's actually classifications that have different multipliers a general employee has a 2.5 multiplier middle management has a three Senior Management has 3.5 and then a uh elected constitutional officers will have a six or higher multip supplier that's what adjusts the percentage that that individual will have as a pension uh and you can take it like this 3% is typically a 3% multiplier means once you're vested and you have all your years of service you're looking at getting about 33% of your full salary so that multiplier does impact the outcome of a pension I did a review of the state pensions and there are for example Panama City has different classes and different multipliers for their employees um I would recommend for the city manager certainly for recruitment you're going to have to look at that multiplier because they understand that their longevity a typical city manager is going to work anywhere from 4 to 8 years 5 to seven years depending on a term of the boards it is accepted um in this industry that you're going to move therefore they're going to negotiate being able to get that pension one be vested in at a higher multiplier because of the volatility of of the position so I brought I started making discussions when I was involved and looking at the contract and talking with Amy I said the problem was that the multiplier was never addressed and the multiply multiplier would it would be my recommendation to address the multiplier currently we're at 3% and I think a good multiplier would be 4% and I think what we're voting on to well not voting on today what we're discussing today is that we would basically give room to say an ordinance can be created to adjust the multiplier so we not voting we're not going to vote Tuesday to say we're adjusting the multiplier because it have to go to the pension that's correct it does not bind right the set at all right so we're just saying hey gu we would like to see an ordinance come back for us to consider what that multiplier would be but we're not voting on a particular ordinance we say yes to this okay and what I would recommend to to devel on the mayor is it's for the position not the person right that this would go forward to anyone who steps into the city manager role that would be the multiplier that they would have and the commission has the authority to set the multiplyer it's a policy decision ultimately yeah that that would make every future city manager best at at five years yes and is that a standard that's currently how the ordinance reads does that happen with all city managers I don't know that all do I can confirm in Panama City Beach um we we amended the vesting schedule to create something new for the city manager the city manager and the assistant city manager we may have done it for the city clerk too I can't recall but the charter officers um we did create a new class for them not uncom by the way some cities pay completely for all the pension for their top level person and then a second um retirement as well so so what's the multiplier for a 10e top here we're all the same oh so it's it's flat I see that upside down there's no variation he's got between the exempts and the non-exempt so um we're we're a flat pension in that sense and when it does go to the pension we do we ask for reviews from the actuarials so that you all see what the impact would be it's not just writing a legal statement but we're going to review and see how it works with the pension and what the what the impact would be and ask commissioner War if he's done some investigation um so from my understanding in the past city managers in the past didn't fall under the general employees retirement pension fund it was uh done differently that's my understanding so keep in mind whatever is determined with this this comes out of the pension fund which affects all the other employees effects a pension fund our pension fund I understand wasn't done like that in the P but kind of worries make make sure that our fund stays healthy is that something that other city do to again I can speak specifically to Panama City Beach the city manager is paid out of the general employees retirement fund and always has so in our in our area and municipalities there are part of the they they are all part part of the pension um by the way our pensions are in very good position um our general fund is funded at 91% police fund is over 100% And the fire funding is 96% 10 107 so we have extremely healthy pensions in a very healthy pension state very favorable laws for pensions what's the 91% general fund our largest and again we won't be making that determination Tuesday just saying that we will consider the possibility or giving possibility that those things could be considered and so that would have to be another discussion ordinance for that to determine specifically what the multiplier would be for that can I give you the exact numbers since you're asking we had the pension meetings yesterday um the fire department is at 96.6 the police are at 107.9 and general is at 91.2 thank you um one of the things that uh to note also although the full contract is not in here I did um review that prior to our Mission meeting one of the things that contract States so that there should be a an annual um paraphrasing there should be an annual review and consideration for the increase in salary that has not been that has not happened since I've been the mayor to have that discussion for annual review as well as increasing salary we did I know about a couple years ago um I did speak with M Jennifer about this and organizing some evaluation process so after a year of considering how to organize that evaluation process because um I did not think the previous way that it was done was um should you know that that shouldn't be the standard by which it it should be conducted so we this past year um did conduct an evaluation um however we didn't get a chance to follow through on the actual discussion of that um and so I did ask her to prepare sh um some numbers for us to consider since we're already talking about salary adjustment or contract adjustments um that it would be something for us to consider at this time as well is um adjusting the base salary for our city manager um to get her more current um and comparable to what um other city managers are making in like siiz cities locally and Beyond so sure uh as ground a year ago you all participated in a performance evaluation process individually and we met um you each met individually with the city manager and myself with the outcome um that was a fivepoint scale if you remember you gave comments you you did some ratings um the range of of scores on a fivepoint scale with one being the weakest up to five being the the strongest or excellent um went from 4.2 to 5 .0 with an average of 4.625 which would be in the um higher excellent range the contract does address the fact that the commission is supposed to do an annual evaluation and shall consider a merit for the city manager and again that has not been done since the um 20 December of 2020 when this commission upon motion by uh commissioner Aldridge adjusted the base salary based on that I went did some comparative studies of our city managers locally I also looked Statewide however when you go out to the Statewide um comparison uh you're just not comparing apples to oranges it's nuts and it's all different um they all have contracted agreements which have various um benefits issues ETC I did look at 20 cities that were equal in or close to the same population either a little bit more or a little bit less that had budgets about the same uh a little bit more a little bit less and had Services nearly the same and the range for the uh city manager from those 20 if I can uh trust the self-reporting of the league of cities study would be anywhere from 59,000 to 278,000 the higher amounts of course are more south Florida the keys for example very very high salary that the cost of living doesn't equate to our area here um I do have some handouts and we can go over them pass and in summary the previous city manager uh upon resignation was at a salary in 2019 of over 147,000 received a severance package also had a car allowance of $750 a month received a medical benefit allowance of $629 and also a um phone allowance of $50 a month so that gives you what was previously handled by the city I took the Assumption on the first Pace that lost salary or let's first we can look at our our chart that has the bloom heading that shows the current city managers and their annual salaries and any other benefits for Panama City Panama City Beach Callaway D and then ly Haven you see the population you see the annual salaries their benefits then if there's any paid insurances and how they contribute to retirement if it's left blank it's because they didn't rep respond to the request uh I do want to point out indest the 200,000 he's a new city manager that's guaranteed for two years and then 34 and5 his salary goes up to 225,000 per contract and PCB uh the latest I have for the beach was this summer before Cola so I would expect that that amount for the city manager with the beach at 10 97,2 would be higher upon receiving a cola and then with Panama City that's actually a new city manager at yes less right at I'm not even sure if he's at a year yet so that's to ponder then the next um um document is lost salary due to no merit consideration so I took the assumption that if the commission considered Merit and did evaluations each year after the adjustment made uh in uh December of two 20 uh 21 when the salary was put at 140 I've added Cola and then a merit a plausible Merit Target would be 5% you see then after the um multiple years the difference between where the salary would be and where the city manager is today this takes a lot of assumptions I'm just trying to give you the picture of where we are today and where it could be today for discussion um so what are we thinking so when was the last time we filled out feedbacks and when did we go over those feedbacks it it was a year ago you all filled it out in November and December of 2023 we reviewed it in January of 2024 we reviewed it as a group or IND that's when we did the individual yeah okay in the Huddle room and that's required every year by contract it talks about doing it has a sh statement and and I think Amy you've got the contract I don't have the entire contract here okay I do while we're talking about that can we talk about cting commissioner spay I'm kidding that's LOL that's we apparently somebody people don't understand my sense of humor we actually get an increase we're on Cola so that's our increase okay nobody picked up on running with that yeah a review evaluation shall be shall be conducted annually in advance of adoption of the annual budget should so it does it does contemplate an annual review so according to the contract we're supposed to do it before we approve the budget which is in what month usually September and I think the the intent of that is because if there's going to be a j a change complicated comp thought about excuse me it would be added to the budget it would be incorporated into the next year's budget um if we do go with your suggestion increaseed by 15% how does that impact our budget um then I would get with the finance director to see where available funds are in HR that might be able to cover that increase this increase would only be for um depending on how it's written and I'll because Amy I know you have a nut Pro tunk there yeah it could be for the whole year so there could be a retro pay back to October 1st um but that amount then would be incorporated into next budgets process so we won't necessarily have to come back to increase the budget itself if you're able to find funds I always have to look at my finance person I don't know how much we can transfer my quick math in my head 15% of her current salary would be about 24,000 um and we would have to amend the budget all right so um so again we have not considered an increase conducted our evaluation January we got the update from HR on what the score was on that basically High excellent what are we thinking in regards to what has been recommended to us relating to increasing by 15% the base salary is this on the agenda is this part of that the five things or is this something totally not on the agenda yet I didn't have any salary adjustments on my proposed agenda item so this is new but it if you have an appetite to do it I can certainly insert it in there yeah it falls under since we're adjusting it we just fall under number 11 since we're because we're discussing the contract so also under B it says 143 4.99 should it say 158 it could I didn't adjust that um because it that 158 I believe is a function of cola increases that are already contemplated so I I didn't understand that to require an annual adjustment to her contract every time you made that Cola um increase if you were adjusting her base salary again on which all future colas will be based um then we do need to change that number so the 143 is the base the 158 is with Cola since the since that 143 was adopted yeah what's Panama City's budget much fire about callaways number of employees are much lower and they also don't provide Police Service anymore it's contracted out I was just thinking and you know know that the superintendent of schools makes like 115,000 he's got 3,000 employees and his budget is 600 million I I don't think that's a correct salary for um superintendent McQueen Okay you think he makes more than 115 120 oh I think much more than that I think don't quote me honest I want to say it's almost 200,000 exactly that was 180 yeah okay I think it's in excess of 200000 That's crazy cuz he there the whole District I'm not trying to go on off on a tangent but where I'm from we don't have school districts and so I live in a small town just that one school superintendent for that little school makes like $240,000 that's New York for you though yeah yeah I was just you know trying to think about Bay County in general so Bay County in general you still the lowest paid City man I can read thank you I didn't say you couldn't but I'm saying if we're talking about Bay County in general she's still the lowest paid so um she's the lowest paid about however with Bay County in general we have the number one city and that's not us stating that that's what surveys say that we have the number one city and also we have the number two safest city per capita for the State of Florida um she's basically doing all the things that we've asked her to do as a commission and as a city so we have our reserves we're getting out of our debt um so she's done the the work that she's supposed to be doing um as a city manager our stor ERS on track so St water is broke well I'm saying in regards to repairing storm water in our city and part of the reason storm water is broke is because we've been paying that 17th Street ditch which we're going to pay off which would then increase our reserves for storm water any additional thoughts on this well I do want to say thanks for getting us all the data because that helps you're you're welcome it's always difficult to talk salaries let's let's talk about the elephant in the room it's tough to talk about salaries especially when the individual is sitting right there but from an HR perspective it needs to be done and needs to be evaluated and re-evaluated you all need to think in the future at some point the city manager will step out and retire so what is the package going to look like going forward I guarantee you it's going to be much higher than where she's at today in order to get someone qualified to come in right um we we experience that in other positions where we it's we're in a niche world world of Municipal Employees we could jump over and cross over to different Industries and make more money we do it because we love being public servants but at some point there still is a reason to evaluate and look at positions that need to be in leadership for that City can we get a copy of all the other contracts benefit packages from all the well say all but as far back as we can go from past city managers I can certainly look at it I've got contracts from the other municipalities as well so I can provide that as a packet um I don't know if they've been updated my packets were probably from a year ago of getting contracts yeah just and I'm not sure if they had contracts if did they all work under employee I I'll have to do I'll be happy to do some research on that I do have Michael White's contract any other requests from HR right any other discussion on this we going to go over D or what would you like to discuss from D so Mr vanag did you know that we voted on the car allowance were you aware of that well um I have to admit that my memory is not as sharp as it used to be I don't recall to be perfectly honest well I remember seeing it in the budget I don't remember see I mean probably but you remember us discussing parent allowance and voting on it actually Kevin brought that to us I don't remember discussing it yeah Kevin Kevin brought it to us what we're having is Kevin brought it to us but it was not updated in the contract so he brought us the car allowance we discussed it we voted on it we updated it but he did not update the contract so that's the housekeeping that Amy's referring to is we've already voted on it he did we just so we voted just on the car allowance yeah vote on the car allowance one was that I don't remember commission award the exact date I just don't remember V can you look at the past minutes to see when we if you could do a Google search on that I'm memory and you all may not have been here when we did it that's possible yeah so it's not saying that they were here when we actually did it no it was hear the question I'm sorry 23 23 fiscal year so it's October 2020 you I would not have been here yeah they didn't come to you weren't here April May of 23 the car allowance the car allowance went into effect October 1 of 23 I was presented a paf I was not present for any discussions about the car allowance in in the 101 budget meetings I think I it was not discussed in front of me I just don't I don't remember it we're researching getting that do you want me to find them now that's all I have yes yeah if you can just find the the meeting date um while she's looking for that um is there any other um discussion in general about matters that we need to bring before the city commission so I brought up uh while back about the city clerk position I'd like to discuss um the possibility of the city clerk position being under the commission so we I did follow up with the chairperson of the Char Review Committee um I think I also the minutes from those and it was discussed it was doing Charter review so the citizens at that time said they did not want to see the clerk try to review is reviewed every five years so we would actually be going against our own policy to at this point to try to insert a city clerk into um into that because we'll have to basically go back and amend the charter which we said we review every five years so so we can't we as the commission can't add anything to it to be voted on by the public on the charter it has to go through the charter Review Committee it's a charter item so we would need to push it back to the Charter Review Committee just like we push things to the finance Review Committee we need to push that back to the Charter Review Committee they've said they've already reviewed it and that they've given us their opinion on it and that it can be reviewed again in five years well and and there was a lot of stuff that needed to be changed and that was a that was a tough task because it been quite a long time since it's been updated um you're not going to get it all in one swack but now we do it every 5 years it's going to that's going to help a lot yeah but my question is are we as a commission we can't at have discussion and vote on something change the charter unless it goes to the Charter Review Committee yeah I would suggest to the Char unless it goes to a vote I know that's true I don't know what youreview committee right it has to go to referendum I get that but my question is it has to go to the Charter Review Committee we can't V it doesn't have to but I'm saying we've already set a president for sending things to the planning board we said the president for sending things to the finance Review Committee things that we're supposed to be doing we've sent it to those various committees to consider so if we're looking at something and changing the charter or the committee in place it would just be the protocol that we've already established which is sending it to the Charter Review Committee we don't have to but then why do we send it to all the other committees when we don't have to mhm do have to well that one's required yeah so with the finance Review Committee we don't have to say things so we so it doesn't have to go to the Charter Review Committee doesn't it doesn't have to but what you're saying is it's a good idea since we established I get it I get it and when was the charter Review Committee the last they a couple years ago actually they voted on it at the last when you guys ran when they voted on it so was before that yeah so the next review will come up 2027 or 2026 so that way it would go and be 2027 2028 ballot if there's anything that they would like to change so the charter set up be reviewed every because I think before we reviewed it it might have been maybe what nearly 20 years since it had been a long time you know reviewed geez and and why does it have to be voted on by the public I'm just curious I'm educating myself but any changes to the Charter requires to be voted on by the public that's state law mhm yeah referendum so then you you don't have a road commission that just changes everything right that keeps us in check which it makes sense well I don't really consider us road but okay wow but F but I get what you're saying I I still would like to discuss it and possibility of add a city clerk under the commission so why do we need a city I guess I'm I'm just not grasping why do we need a city clerk man a commission what would the role of the city clerk do that we don't already have I I talked about at the one pre-commission meeting they pretty much would do a lot of the or all the clerical type stuff like the bookkeeping they wouldn't do Finance stuff so what books are they keeping if it's not finan what's that what books are they keep are they keeping if it's not finan well they're doing the bookkeeping but I was brought up before that they would do all the financial stuff too and that's not what I'm getting at I'm not trying to replace like the finance department with the city cler because there are cities that do that right so that's what I'm saying what books are they keeping if when you when you file paperwork like contracts and development orders and that they file all those stuff away but we have people that do all that already correct we do right so I'm say so what are we doing we're adding a position when we already have people doing that that job you would have to change that we we would it would the city would have to change that structure and there are other cities we're not it's not the only city that going to looks at doing this over 40% of the cities are set up like that which means over 60% or not no 52 I think it's 52% or set up the other way and then there's a few other ones where like really small municipalities it all falls under the mayor and then there's another category it makes up the rest of them so um It's Not Unusual in fact Panama City set up that way Callaway is set up that way I believe Panama City Beach is set up that way I personally believe and this is what I brought up before it creates a good checks and balance with the city and I'll bring I brought this up last time I'll bring it up again would you want a city clerk because a city clerk's in a really good position to know if there's something illegal and ethical is going on and I'm not bringing this up to say there's legal and ethical stuff going on it's not why I'm bringing it up but when we had Michael White would you rather have a city clerk under the commission that would create checks and balances in place when things were not going right right you know well let's say let's go with that scenario well if I slide the city clerk something they're they're not going to say anything either no matter who they're accountable to so it goes back to the Integrity of a person not who they're accountable to so we can get a city clerk and then if that happens again not under this Administration but if it happens under our future Administration if I slide you $50,000 it doesn't matter who you're accountable to you're not going to say anything so I mean I see what you're saying but is well I've talked to other city clerk multiple City Clerks and it took a while but Mo almost all the ones I talk to they only know of one way because that's all that they know right but I did find like a half a dozen of them that have done both of them and unanimously they all took told me it's definitely better for the city as a whole when the city clerk is under the commission for that exact reason because it keeps a good checks and balances in place if there is um some illegal and ethical activity going on because they are in one of the best positions to know if that's going on and since they work for us they would work for us it would be their responsibility to bring it up to us and if they didn't then well then that's the discussion we would have to add but it it does provide a good checks and balance now would it cost the city some extra money I'm sure it would I don't think it's going to be substantial because you're going to have to make some adjustments with Manpower right um so dismiss five employees the hard one I didn't say that now if you look at like Panama City that city clerk has people underneath them so the city clerk um is um is uh hired and fired by the city commission but the employees under that person are city employees right am I right about that I don't know how City doesn't but I mean you have you seen other ones that that's why they're typically set up I know Kevin obos talked about it last time when we were on pre-commission meeting and he kind of said that P city city clerk was hired by the commission yes same with City Clerk and I want to say pan City Beach is the same way too City cler want answers to the commission she's a Char officer so it's not unusual I just want to say I worked for Callaway before I worked here um and they had a city clerk and the human resource department was under the city clerk I will say that I heard a lot of arguing between the city clerk and the city manager know the thought you been around what do you you need to remember to I just want to remind the commission after Michael White we put in internal control measures so that can't happen anymore but as someone said if somebody wants to do something nefarious there's nothing you can do stop them and so but we put those in because you as the Director uh as as commission directed us to do that and um so so we put those internal control controls in yeah that's the now okay the future is when you're not here you don't know who's going to take that place but they still have to follow the internal controls regardless supposed to just like a city clerk would do the same thing supposed to so I you know we are about running this city and I would think not only me or another city manager would have to be jocking for position all the time um with another person in place um trying to run this city and and and that's just really where we are we run a very tight shift um and you know I feel like that the city runs well we have people with Integrity here we have internal controls in in place um you know Kiki and whoever we hire after her vetted a lot and um speak their mind speak their opinion and Even in our Personnel policy if there is something that the city manager or any anybody is doing illegally they are to go to the attorney that's what it says in our Personnel policy so there are surely internal controls in place uh I got something to say about it so in my job I work very closely in a scenario like this um and on paper having uh city clerk makes sense checking balances is a good thing but when you have someone that works in the same for the same company they the city clerk be under the commission yes but they're going to be working with the staff every single day yeah and when that happens it's impossible to keep bias out of it whether that's negative or positive bias and with any bias at all you defeated the whole purpose of having that position in in the first place so the real true way to do it is to have a third- party auditor and uh that's really the only true way you could get no bias um so I like the idea of checks and balances that's always a good thing of my professional opinion doing this for a living doesn't work but when you bring in the human aspect of it it just doesn't work the if it was a if you brought in a robot awesome idea you should you should call those other city clerks and talk to them and city managers I'm telling you it's it's I get every every City's going to have their struggles no matter how you set to set up but I'm just I'm just looking at historically what happened with linhaven especially with the Federal indictment and if the city clerk falls under the city manager how app are they going to come out and sa something they're not in Fair of their job but they fall into the commission it's a responsibility and I get you're not going to have 100% you're always going to have loopholes right but I would rather have as much things in place to try to prevent it then not enough I just think you have a lot of things in place we we we I didn't say we didn't I never I never said we didn't what I'm saying is I'm not focusing on the now focusing on the future but these policies are going to be in place when you guys are going yeah but you're not going to be here forever and then you have another Michael White and then we're going to repeat History part of that too is that you've inserted into the charter that there's an extensive background search for these department heads and the city manager we didn't do that the first time okay so so now you can do that and decide whether or not this person um will be have integrity just by that extensive um background search so I mean I think surely you know we can look at the the past but going forward to the future is where we are we put the things in place you ask us to put in place we do the background checks on department heads and I at this point I just don't think this city is big enough first of all to have a city clerk and an assistant city manager um and be able to to to run a city where someone doesn't report to the city manager or someone I I just think it creates friction it creates friction you set up the clerk position in CJ and Jennifer Kiki yeah yes you're exactly right but they but they all go through the city manager the city manager is a city yeah they don't answer to the commission first but then I guess my other question is we're just we're discuss I was just I know Bobby's been in a very long career in city government and several city managers I just I just like to hear what the man say Amanda mentioned Callaway and she's correct it was a lot of conflict I was actually interim city manager at C right and there's a lot of conflict when you and it's personalities if the city manager and that clerk didn't get along she's going to the commission MH and it was it was back and forth so it really depends on who you put in there but it I don't see where it works I really don't because you still you're over the city manager oh no the city manager is a city clerk in money right it's it's a city manager clerk but when you put an additional person in there that doesn't work directly for her there's a lot of conflicts that can be but you can get that even if you don't set it up that way we just don't have time for that I we have a lot of the problems when um it's never going to be good when Jamie first brought it up I asked him to uh give me some time to do some investigating so I've looked at um job descriptions of various Clerks and they do they vary they do you know some have F you know great financial it's usually whether they have the financial stuff and the clerical together or if it's just clerical so then I decided to go a step further and talk with Mayors and City commissioners again they said uh they do things all [Music] differently but the one thing they all said was in the eyes of the city the city that they're in MH there was more transparency because of it yeah so that's the that is the only consistent thing that was said in the different people that I I uh you know I talked Mayors City commissioners and I talked to Callaway and U so you know I have mixed feelings on this yeah I'm on the Bay County League of cities and yeah I talk to them all the time yeah so I uh you know right now I think we have we have um in place some precautions that hopefully that would never happen again what happened in the past but you know like you said we're not always going to be here but I do like commissioner commissioner people's internal control solution no mind the third auditor coming in and someone looking at anything and everything I I mean I don't mind that at all it takes out the feeling it takes out the the relationship and they're just coming in and looking at all of the things that are going on um these folks have the the option if there was something wrong they have the option to to come to any commissioner and and talk to any commissioner you see the checks before they're written uh that used to not be so I I just think you put in place everything that needs to be and you know just thinking not only for me but future city managers just doing this job second largest city in Bay County they don't have time for other conflicts and I guess as we're discussing city cler um so we're talking about adding another position which would then add more to the budget but we're reluctant to consider a pay increase for our currency man that perplexes me a little bit as well we're going to add another $100,000 opposition sort of reluctant to consider an increase for our currency well first of all we were just simply discussing the clerk and no one has said that they were against any Rays I didn't say that we were but I'm saying there was silence when we discussed it so there's some reluctancy I'm not pointing fingers at anyone I'm just since we're having discussion and we're having discussion so we're looking at wanting to add a $100,000 position but reluctant to give Merit to the person that's already in the position so that's all I'm saying I didn't really get the vibe of reluctance so so I I get it we didn't get the vibe of reluctance but no one other than saying let's go back and look at old contracts let's go back and look at other things what is our current city manager doing now so I'm not we're very lucky with our current s city manager I don't think there's anybody at the table that's you know says we're not uh we I'm not listen I'm not pointing fingers at anyone I'm just making transparency she's brought to the city from the previous city manager 10 fold so I'm just making a statement of if we're concerned about budgets and those type of things we're we're talking about adding more to our budget right so around the table uh Sam you want to add city clerk discussion to the agenda what would be the agenda item like what would it what would would it just be a discussion would it be I mean we're discussing it now but I mean it would be discussion possible approval to amend the upcoming Charter for City cler and then if that got approved what would happen go on the ballot we have to pay for it to go on the ballot but we would line it up for the election creating a position that three people and that's already held yeah with cohesiveness versus I mean the work is already so we're not hiring a person to do the work because the work is already being done I guess to answer your question I'm never I my thought process is I'm never uh I never want to prevent something from being added to the agenda so if we want to add it sure I personally don't like I said from my my personal professional experience it doesn't work not not where what I I do it every day and it doesn't work so I I'm not I like the check and balances I like third party Auditors that's what works so yeah may I add a comment so if you're looking at a clerk and it's a ministerial position which is being done now and you're expecting that person to be able to report nefarious acts they would have to have the whole knowledge of the city manager and all the Departments that's a big Duty that's why I think the city manager has invested some time with me and her directors in order for us to be Specialists and to know what we're bringing forward um and that we're following policies a ministerial role is taking the record recording the record and filing the record much different than what I I hear smatterings of things I'm not sure what this position is supposed to be and how to categorize it so that's that's a place you all would have to decide if you do this what does it mean to be a clerk for the city and what roles and responsib abilities does that entail because that's going to drive what sets up that office the cost of the office and that cost of that position all right Mr V what sir for this to be an agenda item for discussion and possible approval to look at amending the charter for a city clerk are you asking how I would vote or do I want it on the agenda no I don't want it on the agenda I wanted to discuss it I wanted to say that I told war that I would look into it and I have um if if commissioner War feels strongly and wants it on the agenda to discuss you know I don't I don't want to stop him from if you know his feelings for that to be an agenda item but if you can if you're going to make it an agenda item and you're going to vote I mean I'm I don't play poker professionally but I can read the room already and the vote you know the vote wouldn't pass so why would we waste anybody's Time by making it an agenda it um that's that's how I feel about it but you know we have brought things we discussed forward discussion I'm not opposed to a open discussion and I'm not opposed to taking it to the to the to the podium in the meeting and having having discussion and go from there and if a if a motion comes and dies a motion comes and dies you know it's it's it's fine but yeah we're sitting we're sitting here talking about it and I already know the positions held by three current people I don't I don't see any conflicts with talking to those any of those three people answering to any one of us commission Commissioners I think we all we all know everybody and what they're doing um uh that's that's that's my feeling but if the man wants an agenda it give an agenda so because I'm I'm I'm sure H going to ask for one here in a second so so commissioner what would you like for your agenda how would you like for your agenda item to read discussion and possible approval as the cler of the commission all right commission you said you had something you want to discuss yes I do and I want to try to articulate this in in a in a timeline and it's already been brought to y'all's attention but I I feel really strongly about this and we've already voted and we voted for M McDonald and we voted $3.5 million for engineering ing for the headworks project for our for our water treatment not just the headworks commissioner that's for the entire expansion design expansion head correct the um the headworks and the influent pump station was designed back in 2019 2020 by Mont and Panhandle and I don't know the cost of that design um that was before my time but that part is designed the 3 half million is for the entire expansion right right but we're we we've we've voted that money for right since since then uh we we have a vulnerability study in motion and it's almost completed the vulnerability study will show that the the the water treatment plant on the water's edge in linh Haven would be in a in it will it will show in a in a certain type of storm it won't exist anymore um you know any anybody in their in their right mind would say you know it doesn't need to be in that location if you were going to build another one today okay um the county has uh on and off over the years Bobby Chris uh they've come to to to lyh Haven there's a there's a North there's a a plant up uh on 388 across from the across from the Florida Co-op up there where you turn left to go to the airport if you turn right is that road yeah I think it's it's it's an operation right now but it and and it can be expanded to Encompass the entire area because the growth of that area is is going to happen and that that's the water treatment plant for that um uh it's been it's been offered before and the city manager already spoke and had a meeting with County Manager okay um there the we're we're in it's in the works to possibly close our water sewer treatment plant and pump up to that plant up there okay and in in in doing that we'll we'll have to pay the county we'll have to go on County rates we won't we won't any longer be ly Haven you know it won't be a Lin Haven utility anymore but it'll go we'll go on County rates everything will go up there but lyh Haven will become the collector of the of of the retail for that area that means that will not only collect the linh Haven residents will all have to go on County rates the the the the residents who are on County rates will still be build by Lin Haven is is what I understand can I just point a um correction there so the feasibility study will show what rates will be so we wouldn't necessarily go on County rates right it could be less because we're adding 20,000 people when you add 20,000 people to something that has a fixed cost anyway you're you you can you can create a less less cost it might it might work out to be the same as linh Haven rates but it they won't be ly Haven rates because it's a county-owned facility so it'll be it'll be you know we'll still be collecting we'll still be pulling in but that that's one of the things that hinge on this is that the the rate the rate study has to be done and city manager in negotiation with with the county on that but and she she's I believe going to work with Bob after the holidays but I I I I would like to make a formal agenda item that we're tracking this and we're tasking the city manager so it's something that we're pursuing versus the $50 million project um if we can if if we can close one and and the county would be co-oping with us on increasing the headworks and whatnot this this all you know it's like this is all in negotiation right now um and we still we're still sitting on the fact that we we're going to have to do that based on um um consent orders and and whatnot so regardless we have to up upgrade our Wastewater Plant whether we expand this current plant or we go into the county and let the county provide wholesale sewer treatment to us we still will be a Lin Haven utility we still have water and sewer rates we still have water and sewer bills basically in the simple terms there's a huge flow meter that will be on the forest main that every month the county sends us a bill based on that meter for what what amount of sewer we sent that treatment plant however like commissioner perno said the vulnerability assessment in 20080 I believe it is you know if everything goes with sea level rise um other environmental conditions the treatment plant existing could be underwater so we at need to face the the point of do we spend $51 million and that's an estimate on expanding this plant or do we abandon the expansion do we build an influent Pump Station that's already designed and go into together with the county let them treat our Wastewater we pay the wholesale rates now of course our rates are going to increase regardless whether we have a $51 million Bond or we go on the county because the county is going to have to pay their bond on expanding the Wastewater Plant however the rate study will take everyone into consideration the current L Haven customer base and the county base and basically spread that cost amongst all of those users there's also a bunch of development proposed in Bay County you have several thousand homes from the tii trail subdivisions um the potential S farm subdivisions and all the future tie-ins on Edwards Road po but if that is something we are going to do keep in mind we still have a consent order coming that we've discussed for about a year now we have not received that yet so we do not know what the consent order will be that's a bad thing but we will have to do something to our Wastewater Plant to expand any capacity whether it's this one or moving North so what would the time frame be um it to to confirm all of this well and that's kind of what we need some direction on which is I mean commissioner per has a valid point on an agenda item January we can Fast Track our design through M McDonald and get a design done for our plant by the end of the year and be ready to bid out now in that year you all have to decide do you want to do an srf loan for $50 million do you want to bond it how do you want to do that or we can take some direction and go do the feasibility study like we're going to do with the county kind of pause the design until that is complete and then look at the the feasibility for rates as a whole in Bay County and go up to the north bay PL and that is where we were actually right go and the reason I'm asking for a a an agenda item and and and a and a vote and you know and and she's she's not doing it she's not kicking the can we're just we're just making it official that we're doing this so we can show D we're serious about this this is this is this is on the horizon and it will in turn either alleviate or soften our consent over I'm hoping uh but because when when when they get a when they when they can look at oh you're you have two water treatment plants you're going to close one and and and and operate that's a great thing environmentally I mean they will they will they will say you're you're you're thinking ahead and and I really think it can it can offset consent over I mean it's a possib it's a possibility in in terms of I talked to Elizabeth or yes a lot and um she actually called me on that want to know where we were in that process and um one of the things that we're going to be asking the the legislative appropriation for is a million dollars to do this study if that doesn't happen then we're going to be working try to partner with the county to utilize their per their their um vendor they already have in place I think it's rap Talis if I'm not mistaken and be able um to still move forward either way so we have been working behind the scenes you're absolutely right commissioner K Jessica Graham with the uh with the with the St Joe Bay St Andrew Bay es program and Daryl Buro with the West Florida Water Management District are you know I I wouldn't have this knowledge with and Chris lifeford of course um if and and and U Bobby and Keith Bryant I mean these talks have been going on for for a while now and it it was at the point where you know the county was going to give it to us we were going to take it over this or that whatever but it's come to this it's come to now where we're faced with this with this huge you know $50 million and you won't expand it anymore after this after after this $50 million in headward Project the next increase to that water treatment plant is to close it and build another one pretty much right I mean you won't and and that's been years down the road too so but this one up here is expandable and can handle the whole area and stuff estimated cost we become the retail provider we be counting for us to move from one so you're looking at about a $10 million Force main Pump Station again preliminary numbers we don't know but about a $10 million Pump Station to get the sewer to the north bay plant then the county will have to expand that plant around $50 million as well we won't have the bond for the $50 million however our rates will be based upon the bond that Bay County takes or an srf loan or however however they intact and then not only that the other benefit is we vot we never we've always I think there's been a question about what's going to happen out in Southport and this could be good opportunity for lin Haven to expand Lin Haven to provide services that makes us un annexed no we also wouldn't have to pay employees to run the plant right that would be on and our current employees would be employed at there so and that is a challenge in itself currently throughout the State of Florida Wastewater operators are hard to find we are having a hard time Staffing the plant with licensed Wastewater operators so that burden would be removed from the city for licensed operators however we would need additional employees to maintain the sewer collection and water Distribution Systems in that area now the county would need less employees so this way down the road and this would be part of the feasibility and the rates of you know what employees transfer from the county to the city or from the city to the county we need to have it stated in the in in the form of an agenda item so so the people who are forming the consent order Elizabeth or when they see when they see it's in the do on the dock on a city on a city meeting and and what we vote on to get behind you know even though you I mean we're we're fighting two fronts in a way but the best case scenario in the end would be to do that and then potentially potentially you know we become the retail provider for the whole area that has to be contracted out with the county but um but think about our um you know if that Wastewater plant's gone there's potential Grant for converting them Pensacola and other other areas that have done away with their wastewater treatment plant I mean what do you think the um the Wahoo Wahoo Stadium waho Stadium been over there that used to be the was for Pensacola was I did not know that yes makes sense it's on the water right there right and they had a water treatment plant on the water and they they they knew they knew from their feasibilities and would not to close it and they that would definitely hit with we we potentially want an Amphitheater one day there and stuff like that that would and and that leads into other grants when you convert something like that to you know to something to something better to improve your community there there's grants out there for there's pots of money out there yeah and our growth will be up um you know because right now you know we don't have any growth the west or the East our growth would be North and so that's one of the things we've been talking to the county about so you just wanting to um discussion and proov to task the city manager with moving forward with yeah and Chris if Chris can talk like he just did you know what I mean to let the public know where we're at you know what I mean is there any downside to this sharpen up a little bit I guess the downside controls I guess any downside is I mean at the end of the day we become the County's customer I mean we lose control of a Wastewater Plant um but I would give upol with the waste water before we left here today possible and I think we we already do business with the county on that will also take away the need for us to move to expand our reuse system because it would no longer be our yeah liability re right back to us well potentially I mean not necessarily we may lose our reuse all together which is fine we can convert all of that to poble and sell the irrigation that's not an issue yeah now one question would be um let me say I'm I'm for this um as further discussion as an agenda item but one of my questions is if we decide to go this route in the future what happens to our $3 million that we've already obligated to moop McDonald's so we haven't spent that I mean we've only spent about3 or $40,000 I'd have to go back and see but that would that had to be done anyway for our permit renewal our permit expires next August and we had to have an application submitted by August 31st we would be out of compliance so regardless we had to spend that money and the county if we tell the county we had Engineers under contract they they can that would be an Amy question of could we convert that task order to that because the RFQ was based on right I I'll review it because like they be the ones that actually do the so that would be the county would be responsible now for hiring an engineer whether we could transfer our contract to the county that would be it and and they really want to get out of the retail business they love hotel but they don't want to get out of the retail business so the count County would kind of be The Driver they're all in we've had our initial meeting and we have talked with them um and um so really what we're asking for and their Direction was us is first of all you got to see what those rates would be if we did this transition first of all which that means that's a feasibility study for first and foremost so the agenda item could be about the feasibility um and so we've got to find that that uh funding to make that happen and um also if not uh then we need to move forward with working with the county and their vendor to do um to to ensure that we do this study because they're they're vendors ra Tillis and so we would we would need to make sure that those two things in place to move forward so I guess um we would still be looking at maybe six months down the road before we'd actually bring this back again because if we're talking about waiting on legislative funding which is I'm for that we want to we want to move on it well I'm saying if we're talking about legislative funding we got to wait until legislation meets and approves well and that would probably need to be part of the agenda item is what do you want to direct staff to do because we are moving forward with a design currently so if it's the commission desire to put this as a priority then we would need an agenda item to either pause the design delay the design or put it on hold until the the results are finished we need to get the cost of what the what the study would be would we be able to get with the county and I can I can get a projection and get a projection there that's that that's kind of where the way the agenda it because the priority is getting this feasibility grade study done so but we got to find out how much it costs we can't just wait around for the swing at appropriation but let's get a dollar amount on what it is and and and and go if we don't get appropriation we still got to move on this no I think we do and that that was our understanding with the county whether we get that or not but that was their first direction to us is to go that saying we won't know right what we're going to be able to do financially until we get appropriation we got to know we got to know how much it cost to do the study just a gauge you know Panama City got about $2 million and I don't know how much of that they've spent on um their feasibility study so they they did not spend all of the 2 million to my understanding and speaking with Jared um they got the $2 million that also included a vulnerability assessment of their Wastewater plan ours is already done so we just have to do the rate study now the agenda item could be direct this direct staff to get an estimate from the county on change ordering into their raas contract or what it would take to do it then the city could pay the county directly if we wanted to do it before legislative appropriation was approved or denied and if I'm also hearing you're saying we would need a separate agenda item to pause the design on the current head works if we're looking in this my opinion and I would defer to the city managers I would if you want to do that then we would like a direction from the commission on pausing that that we could present to DP and show where we're at versus just us putting it on hold it would be better if we had some direction from the commission got it so there's really two agenda items I think we should get both agenda items on this agenda so we can get moving and show and show you know we we need to show all parties involved the county we need to show DP we need to we need to show them that we're serious about this because DP Elizabeth does know that we are pursuing that right she knows it but when they see it and you know when you see it on paper you know or or when you see a vote from us it goes It goes out you know they they know what we're doing so I can um WR up some things and then um commission people any objections to addes no v no Ward sounds great yeah I'll that out I have just one quick question how is our working relationship with Bay County it's awesome is it yes yeah awesome and this is a situation where the county does what they do good and ly Haven will do what we do good we already have customer service billing available that's and those and and it would it would be a bigger bigger more customers for them and whatnot but they can handle it and I will tell you too that that was not always the case we had to rebuild it yeah and I do know yes after every every time there's a storm that's coming this way they always reach out and call me and say hey anything you need let us know we're here to help we'll send whatever trucks we need to send out you know so it's a very good supportive relationship even even when we went to legislation last year um when we went you know to petition for our funds Bob Michael was there I was there we were all um I don't think the county got anything last year but he was a team player to say hey at least something is coming to Bay County um their lobbyist is our lobbyists you know what I mean Jo Joe's a lhen guy Joel Shubert was our city manager yeah absolutely um no Tom is wrapping up so couple of quick question go ahead you want me to do the date on the yes that's all was one of those so that's one of the two so yes Bobby would you come give an update on the golf cart where we are with that all right the golf cart Crossing we verbally met with do there's three of them they make consider but they're not committing Virginia and 390 17th and 77 24th and 77 all three of them have traffic lights yep what they want is a full-blown engineering study of it which is $115,000 we didn't budget that it's not in this amended budget so and it's there's absolutely no guarantee they'll approve them but they're willing to look at them again in the past they have not even been willing to look at it and we Bobby's been working really hard to try to get them to even look at additional on golf cart cart Crossing so that's where we are now only consider traffic lights so the intent was to get people to the larger supermarkets MH the Virginia one would get the west side over to the wind Dixie area 24 Street would get them to the Publix and 17th would get them to wind Dixie so I think 24th would be a tough one yeah it's going to be tough not have intersection with traffic issues already it's going to be what were the other two 17th and 77 by McDonald's over there yeah okay and Virginia where the new light is on 390 okay I guess said at least get them to Win Dixie they do 17 to get people Dixie but yeah that 24th take right to the intersection okay right thank you for working on that but like I said it's not in the current budget to do it so we would have to actually vote on that to yes approve the engineering study because we have to amend the budget for that make that um is that something we want to discuss further on Tuesday I've had several requests from citizens to have more Crossing yeah more Crossings all right commissioner have youest just trying to get out M highes my go to Dollar General right now that's probably one of the top requested things that I get yeah so everybody okay with adding that to the agenda for discussion and possible approval regarding engineering if you want to do it you can add it to this budget you're trying to in yeah okay um and then thank you and then the second question um was in regards to we we've all received emails followup emails from uh The Landings we had a citizen that came and made a request a few months ago probably in the summer regarding lowering the speed limitting The Landings from 25 to 15 we did direct City staff or the traffic um committee to go and do a a study on that um I followed up with the city manager to see the results of that study so if you could so average miles per hours I think the medium was 26 and the average was around 20 yeah it was low um and so the recommendation from the committee was to not lowerer it from 25 to 15 um and so that again I know she's reached out to all of us so just sharing that with you before I followed up to say this is she came to a meeting yeah um so that's uh that's the results of that it did not work anything done yeah where are we as far as Mo High I'm just waiting until the new year to conduct a new you know we voted cond a new study yeah um not RI them up before Christmas I do know I think um police have been out monitoring speeding um so I I do know that um so that that has brought a little more alertness for people to hopefully to to slow down in the area you don't want to get a ticket nothing incentivizes like money that that is that is true um so that's all the extra that I had uh see youall on Tuesday J