##VIDEO ID:77WUl7YuANE## e e good evening and welcome to the Board of Commissioners regular Workshop today is Wednesday August the 28th 2024 it is 6: pm. we call the meeting to order city clerk would you call the role please Mayor Brooks here vice mayor cagini here commissioner Kerr here commissioner MC here commissioner gabay here all are present with no public in attendance we will move on to our first agenda item from the fire department presentation to lieutenant Andrew Childers mayor mayor commission thank you for a few minutes of your time tonight uh this one's a a little tough for us but I think we'll we we'll get through it we'll adapt and overcome like we always do uh little background Lieutenant Childers has been with mad Beach fire department since 2012 uh him and I were actually hired together and we have done a lot here at the fire department but Lieutenant chers has done much more madira Beach Fire Department was wasn't always the department you see before for you it was used as a stepping stone to get somewhere else and honestly I'm guilty of it I left here I went to St Petersburg and luckily I was fortunate enough to be hired back but Andy had a vision of a better department and he stuck it out through the rough times to get where we are today I won't go over all the accolades ideas policies that are in place now because of him since I became fire chief Lieutenant chers has been my go-to when the previous mayor city manager came to me stating they wanted me to step up I was talking with Andy in the kitchen and he said as long as you keep the best interest of the fire department and the firefighters number one you're going to be fine and I got your back I have never forgotten that I RAR I rarely did anything without a conversation with Lieutenant Childers they always say leave a place better than you found it and I believe he has accomplished that with that we all wish you Sarah Everly Willow and Conrad the best and nothing but success with your new fire department [Applause] congratulations have a few words uh well I've never been great at this honestly um thank you honestly I pre the accolades and the uh recognition it's really uh I'd rather focus on what we built honestly than uh anything else I couldn't be more proud of what I'm leaving here um everybody back there um most of them I had a hand in hiring honestly and uh pardon my language but I I told them is the day they get hired all you got to do is give a and uh the older I get the more I believe in that and uh everything in life but especially in the in the fire department um you couldn't have a better group of people back there a group of people that cares more about anything it's always been about the Citizens First and our brothers and sisters in that fire department second um thank you [Applause] get picture than [Applause] [Music] app I'd like to say that I've had the pleasure of spending a fair amount of time with Lieutenant Childers and our city will be have a great loss he's a great guy tons and tons of um respect from the firefighters that work with him and alongside of him so best of luck to you and your family you'll be missed so we'll move on well I guess do we have any public comment so we'll move on to Item B the ITB number 2407 awning over parking pad storage at the fire station mayor vice mayor commission again this is for the um covered awning for the asphalt pad that we just built over there um this for vehicle storage and through this the contract we have with the Department of Forestry for our high water vehicle it has to be stored undercover so we're just kind of running out of room and hence the storage unit over there and the asphalt and this is part of the this is the last part of uh being able to accomplish a little bit of more more covered storage and this is all through arpa funds as well you received three bids that's correct we received three bids um the first one was non-responsive um they didn't provide the information we requested the second one that was chosen they provided everything they provided the uh wind speed for the structure that they would build the materials that they would use and the cost and then the third company they were extremely extremely high it was five times the amount of the second bid the middle bid and so we chose the bid selection committee chose the the middle bid with Molly Contracting yeah morat morat morat morat sorry um do we have any public comment commission do you have any question who was on the selection Committee just got it was myself um and Trish Eaton my Executive Administrative Assistant okay thanks yes sir was there a chief was there a specific um specification it looks like they may have provided more than the bid number two I didn't know if there was a specific the third plan inspect that they had to meet but then they the the ITB stated that it was uh metal awning for a carport is what what the intent of it was and the third bid if you look through that they were almost Building a garage so I believe that's why their number came in so high and do they have certifications that the other one didn't I understand oh yeah yeah I had a pre-construction meeting with morat after uh we told them pending commission approval that they had been awarded the bid and they came in and he's done plenty of projects but actually he was morat I believe is working with public works morat construction oh down downstairs okay yeah any other questions I I have one question M mayor um so when they bid on this project was it design built or was it a design that they bit on no they they provided what they would build for us within the specifications I I told them it had to be 40t long 20 ft wide and 12T High to accommodate the high water vehicle or the brush truck and those were the specifications they were given to be uh with those uh Dimensions to provide us a metal awning carport and I left it up to them to provide what they or present what they felt was appropriate all right uh it just seems like they probably were bidding on a different design than those two companies possibly was apples and oranges I think yeah absolutely they definitely if it was more budget friendly or or we had more of a budget to to complete this project it would have been a great building but unfortunately it was just a little over the top for what we were looking for thank you thank you absolutely one more question question do we have a timeline on when this would be built yes so um in the meeting he stated um Mr morat himself stated I explained to him the commission meeting on September 11th um pending any heartburn it would be approved then and then from there we can move forward he said it should take about 60 days after permitting so maybe 120 days total great thank you Chief yes sir thank you thank you anything further then we will move on to approval of construction manager at risk for Readington EMS station all right good evening again um this is the first step in the construction for the Readington EMS station that we are the project manager for in for North Reading Beach Readington Shores um we put it out to bid we had two respondents un fortunately only two we had it out to bid for just a little bit over four weeks uh builtmore was a chosen one from the selection committee who included um mayor Queen from North Readington Beach myself Trish Eaton um Ali litz from public works and Robin Gomez and so this was the construction manager at risk uh company that was chosen uh they have experience working on on the coastline so they are very familiar with the the issues that we Face along here as you know with the current fire station status um the other company Kingdom they're Central Florida they they had some decent recommendations from The Villages they've done some fire stations for The Villages but without that that Coastal education I guess or experience it was it was hard to go away from builtmore do we have any public comment commission had a quick opportunity to look at our package and they look like they're a great fit they they just uh built Clear Water Station 46 on the beach and they also just completed South Pasadena's new fire station as well and this was a a a tricky situation because it was madir Beach is the project manager pelis County money but it's on reading North Readington Beach property and so I reached out to attorney tras and he said just follow our proc procurement process so that's why this is presented to you all tonight was it a unanimous vote it was perfect mayor M mayor Queen was um spoke very highly of them yeah yep anything further so being a construction manager what do you think your responsibilities will be they they've definitely lightened the load for for me as opposed to being the contact for everything that so what they do is we hire them to co-manage the project I have weekly meetings with them and then and anything that needs to be change or this won't work we need to we need to call an audible here they would also contact me and run that through me first but they they put the electrical the fire suppression uh Plumbing all of those different trades they put that out to bid them El on behalf of us and their fee is 7% of the total cost so would you be managing the construction or would you be um managing the project the overall it would be the oversight's falling on me okay so if something goes wrong just just I'm just being be's Advocate uh what who would be responsible if if anything goes wrong with this it's going to be built more that's going to be held responsible for this because essentially the contractors are working for builtmore they're being hired by builtmore being paid from the county okay as long as there's no liability responsibility because no uh our labor attorney Rob Ean Felder went through the contract and we changed a few things that kind of left the door open with the County's contract that it wasn't crystal clear but it could have been spun in a way that maybe we were on the hook if the project was delayed or extended or what have you and we fixed all that that contract was also presented to the commission thank you yes sir um one more question Chief um with our existing fire station we've gone through uh a lot of trouble with I don't know litigation because of structural are you feel comfortable with the structural design of this station I do I do and speaking with them as well there in the drawings that we received there's no less than 100 pilings and even the construction manager at R said it it's it's not beneficial to them to not have as much work but he even they said that that's even overkill for being on the coast right here so they're looking at Alternatives and it'll be a little bit of savings as well for that which is good for the county great and if there were an issue is that I guess where as uh commissioner gay had mentioned that would go back to builtmore that's all in the contract yeah we haven't signed a contract yet and I'd imagine that would probably have to come in front of the commission as well yeah but we'll with attorney tras and E and Felder we'll be able to hammer out the details and present to you a clean clean version thank you so much absolutely thank you don't go far last item D is approval of the 2024 emergency medical Services ALS first responder agreement and fy2 alsf fr budget yes okay so this one is a contract with penel County to provide medical services because the county does not provide fire suppression services so we enter into an agreement with them every and it's good for every two years every two years we renew it um so they decided they wanted to try to mirror the new Sunstar contract which is 5 years and extend our contract out um this does not affect the a the alsr budget the budget will still come to us every year we can adjust it as needed um this year is a 19.49% increase over last year's budget um and so that's something we'll be able to do as long as we can just you're allowed a 3% increase but as long as you're allowed to justify the an increase over 3% um they'll present it to the County Commission and they either say yay or nay and so far they've we've been fortunate enough for them to agree that the justification is there for a substantial increase so the budget will still come to the commission every single year uh this is just kind of a little bit of housekeeping do we have any public comment Commissioners good thank you very much Chief the next item is Board of Commissioners flood insurance update Homestead issue letter to State and I believe weren't you working on this yeah I'll my microphone on this is a a draft um I'm open to uh word smithing or or or ideas on it I could read the whole thing but it's here um basically I wanted to put out a I was tasked to put out a letter um that supported my thoughts on the um flood mitigation so basically um I'm call I was calling it The Homestead Relief act we could don't have to call it anything but that's um I was referencing it basically uh I outlined that um the mys safe Florida home program that's a Statewide program for Florida is for wind mitigation it doesn't really uh um it doesn't really address flood mitigation so um I just kind of try to give as much information without going overboard with a letter that we can send to um our state representatives um it doesn't have to be one it can be multiple I don't know if we want to share this with the other cities uh along the beach in the big sea um or I mean the last storm you can see Inland flooding is a big issue you don't have to just be on the coastline and for people to try to raise their homes or rebuild their homes um and you still have the same density I don't know why they should be impacted by their property insurance uh escalating so they can't afford to stay in their homes so with that and um an opportunity to um to take the uh maximum increase decrease from 3% to 2% of your uh T of your assessment your taxable value I wanted to put this in front of the the state to see if we could get some traction to present this and see if we can't get a uh a vote on that and then at the the very bottom um you know this would help our crisis as far as the home insurance and I just did a a quick uh Google search and it's just showing that over the last well since 2014 I went down Florida is consistently in the top three paying the highest uh insurance premiums Across the Nation and four out of those eight years they were number one so um I'd like to uh get any input from the board and once we if if we're in agreement that we want to do something with this get get it to uh Linda Cheney and any other of our state representatives to see if we can get some traction and I would recommend that we do it in as many with as many people or as many organizations as possible to at least get a discussion going I don't want to just leave it with one individual representative that may look at this uh favorably or unfavorably and for it to die uh in that way so I'm open for any input be critical please and if you haven't had a um chance to to read it I don't know if this comes to a uh the next board meeting for um any vote but now's the time for any um changes to it any word smithing or any any criticism I put it that that do we have any public comment with no public comment commission any comments I appreciate commissioner Kerr doing all the detail hard work on this and I I couldn't find anything that I would change I think uh we should go forward and Wordsmith the letter and talk and uh get start I I like something that just gets talked about and talked about he's finally doing something great if I were to um add something to it uh Madura Beach is probably one of the one city that I know of that the that the freeboard above FEMA is four feet and most other cities are two feet one foot three feet so so with four feet of freeboard I think you know the flood rate should be much much less so it should somewhat affect the uh you know the reduction of of the you know flood cost insurance cost the only comment that I had was great work thank you um is has the planning department looked at the letter I don't know oh so I speak I think that it would be um they might have some input or might have some maybe I'm not sure I think that if we had them at it it would be great and then move forward with the the only hesitancy I would have to that is timing I would like to get it out for discussion to the to the state and to The Big C and to the so I think that the way you've written it is I I think it's just fine I support it I don't I don't have any um you did the work you put the work in thank you and so the only thing I would be thinking to let them have a one over and um if they saw any area maybe of improvement for I don't know their input from that high level that they sit at and then bring that back to us at the next meeting and vote on it so that we can move it forward and get it out will they have a when when's their next meeting scheduled that's a so I'm oh I don't mean the Planning Commission I'm sorry I'm sorry I meant Community Development I apologize I didn't speak that clearly I meant to let Jenny and Marcy and Andrew and their team maybe do a once over and see where they might if they would do any changing or massaging of it and then with their recommendation on top of all the work you've put into preparing the letter absolutely um when I submitted it to to Robin um I did copy um Marcy and Jen and um okay and then so they've had an opportunity to look at it I don't know if they've had a opportunity to respond yeah I did look at it um we haven't discussed it Collective as a team but I do see some opportunity to clarify a few things that I think will be helpful and I also have a website that I'll share with you that I think you'll find pretty interesting it's a dashboard so it's presented very nicely with pie charts and easy to understand data so I'll share that with you guys as well there may be something from that you could pluck into the letter as well but other than that I I agree with everybody it was very well written and I I see where you're headed so very good job Marcy do you think that you could do that and get it back to commissioner Kerr say within the next week yeah and then you would be able to then um put your stamp on it and then that would come before the commission at our next meeting we can that's absolutely doable y perfect thank you only because you did such a good job so yeah you did a yeah there a lot I had studied it before we got here tonight so I had gone on the websites it's very well done definitely I totally agree with the board um the mayor and the commission here um the homestead Relief act um decreasing the maximum taxable property tax value from 3% increase to a two two 2% increase annually I definitely agree with that and also if we could go over just the which I'm not uh just more clarification the 2% maximum property tax increase may require a non-homestead residential and Commercial properties to absorb any unrealized taxes oh Homestead Property yeah my my point there and I I can be corrected well I can't be corrected by Andrew because he's not here but my understanding is that the um the county with setting their rates um they have a balanced budget as well so they have their expenses and they need to um set their millage rate based on um or their portion based based on their expenses so if for some reason well historically the residents are not in pelis County not charged at 3% that's the max historically it's been somewhere one to two or whatever so um as property taxes in increase if that millage rate needed to go up it's still not it's there may be more of a burden on the non-homestead properties to absorb that difference or the homee so I don't see it as a cost to the county it just may be a dis a different proportion in each category that's all that's that's my intent there so you know I I've looked at these things before and and quite sometimes you'll get a fiscal impact study done and I'm not the expert but I've read these before where it says well there'll be a reduction in in the taxes well no that's not true it'll be a redu it could be a reduction in the homestead portion of those taxes um but not overall so you're not taking away from any Services right so thank you great job thank you the next item is is pcpao city of madira beach RightWay map information election candidates campaign sign placement and sign codes I'm not quite sure how this is going to present without Robin here I think I I think I might be able to start it um I think this this came up with the previous election where in the mayoral um uh competition for to that many or let me let me how I have to choose my two words correctly one candidate or both or one or the other may have placed their signs in city rways and that became a legal issue we and the and the um pelis County Department was called and um there was some dispute on where you could actually Place signs so um I know the board at that time was directed that you're not allowed to place your signs in the city right away so that to me I I don't know if I am the one that spurred this but I asked what does what does that mean to the city manager so off often times as you drive through the neighborhoods there signs everywhere and typically they're not that far from their Road and they're in the city right away now I've never seen the sheriff's department have any issue with that but if it's Along Thomas Stewart Causeway or Golf Boulevard it seems to have seems to have a different level of enforcement um I just asked the the question if we're not allowed to do it in the right way you know how do we know you know I may run again and I may Place signs out how do I know if I'm if I'm in in uh you know V violation of the city code so I think that's where this started I don't know if we have much more clarification but Andrew may have something so I I included a link in in the memo to the penel county proper appraiser website including their interactive GIS map that shows uh property lines so you you can I I can just so for example this is our public right of way while this is the uh private property owner's property so they can't put the sign in our RightWay but they can put the sign on their property so this this would be one option some sometimes the lines could could be maybe a foot or two off um but another option would be if you if you know the private property owner they might have a property survey and that shows where the right ofo line is too um but this is publicly available and and easily accessible so this would would probably be um the the easiest source to use um that's readily available I Unity public do we have any public comment commission perhaps this map uh with some creative highlighting could be distribut to candidates who have applied and are are ready to run saying here's very specifically where you can and can't put a sign maybe that map would would be included with their packet that might be something that would be very clear and we use that as a reference then there's no question the the challenge so I I did try to make a map similar because I um I actually did reach out to the proper appraiser um and and got uh some some of their data the the challenge is trying to print a map large enough to act like to be able to show the right of way because the thing is even on 11 by 17 it's very tiny Mader Beach isn't that big but it's still like a over square mile so trying to show a square mile on a 11 by 17 inch piece of paper which is like the largest one we could let me ask is it visible on a on a website uh yes yes this is yeah I linked it to the um um prop appraiser website that that's but that's the one they provide it doesn't necessarily have highlighted areas where you can't uh is that right can you manipulate that in any way it's not highlighted but the lines are clearly on there to distinguish they will show ba B so for example this is Bayshore uh um there's also different um map layers too but it it shows pretty clear where um the lot line is and it's a and where the right of way is because the they have all the everything labeled they have the Lots labeled they have the streets labeled um you could actually do measurements so like for example this RightWay says it's 40 feet so about 40 feet yep well then then maybe that that link could be emphasized in the packet by the city clerk saying this is super important make sure I mean uh there's other things that are linked that the candidate has to go to so maybe this could be included in that packet I I agree that would be a good idea I think ultimately the onus is on the candidate to understand where and where where you can and cannot put a sign and I would be curious to understand if the city was going to direct a candidate where they could and couldn't specifically put a sign that seems like it might be really convoluting for us I can't I'm not going to speak to the neighborhood of how that operates in a neighborhood when political signs are out but I know that the day before the election last week wasn't it last week August 20th yes the day before the last election I was sitting at fbad having lunch and I watched a vehicle pull up and stop at the light got out she got out of the vehicle put a political sign in the RightWay got back in her vehicle and drove away I finished lunch walked back to City Hall spent a few minutes here and walked back to go over to Kitty Stewart par or to the um archal sorry to look at the groins and the political sign had already been removed by the sheriff's department so I believe that in the main road the main I I can only speak to that we are being diligent about that and maybe that is because of the last election where there were some issues with signage and in the neighborhoods it probably is a little bit more haphazard with people campaigning and putting signs out in front of their house and not realizing where they are so maybe the answer to that instead of trying to police before it's done is to have our community deputies specifically looking for that they understand better right ways I think than trying for us to take it on ourselves to educate a candidate and so are you opposed to having that link in the packet so that we can say this is where uh you can I would want to find out from the city attorney whether or not we should I don't personally care but I also don't want the city to be opened up to well this is what you sent and this is what I looked at and this is what I did s attorney TR do you have an opinion on that or a yeah I I don't see um a negative on that I mean more information that we can provide the candidates would be I think would be the way to go um I'm not really concerned I mean ultimately it's a tool if the tool is not used properly or appropriately that's on the candidate but at least we'll give him some idea and I think it would be helpful so I agree um it should be included in the campaign packet if don't disagree if if I might I'd like to follow follow up on what the mayor's saying but take it one step further I I don't think that there's any um issue with the residential areas so in my humble opinion perhaps the Board needs to look at the ordinance that states that you can't put it in the right away but perhaps we need to only have that in certain Zone zoning districts um or certain uh you know Golf Boulevard Thomas Stewart Causeway the residential areas who cares if you have a sign that's in the RightWay because you have such a large RightWay in some of these residential Aries where you have telephone polls that are 15 feet back in in the in the uh you know from the curb who cares if you have a political sign that's only 3et away from the I don't I don't I've never heard of any push back or anyone having an issue um and I don't think that's what the sheriff's department is going to really be concentrating on so it might be something to discuss so what you're what you're saying is to suggesting to change the ordinance that and make it only apply to main thorough fars yes that that nod was actually a yes well that's I mean and before I didn't that's not what I understood so yes um I wouldn't have an issue with that I think that if we're not policing the signs in the neighborhoods and it's just on the main thoroughfares I would be curious to know how many complaints the city's received or the Sheriff's Department's received whoever's gotten them over signage in residential neighborhoods whether or not that's ever been an issue I don't know I I don't know I live on 150th so I see the signs that go out on the main thoroughfares much more often than I do the um in into the residential neighborhoods I don't travel them as often as as I recall when I when I was putting out signs uh in the neighborhoods the The only discrepancy is if someone put it on a telephone poll or something like that and and as a result of that I think whether or not we in U actively enforce it we keep those ordinances in place so that if there's a discrepancy if somebody says hey why why is the we can look at that ordinance and say well that is or is not allowed that's I mean I see your point the the problem the problem is in the the public right away and and the Public's parking in the Public's parking lot but I mean the wind Dixie parking lot it does still state in the in the ordinance that you can't put it on Telephone polls and things like that right so keep keep all that right yeah yeah I agree I don't I don't believe we have a really a big problem with the residential areas you know um I believe that also we should include uh and I'm not quite sure what it is what the fine is or what the um jail time is I believe it's a misdemeanor if you steal someone's signs I know that we've had that problem before in the past but we should also let the um people know exactly what the uh punishment for that is also I think that's pretty well outlined in the the pack isn't it uh perhaps city clerk can help me with that isn't it pretty well outlined about what you you can't take a sign and what the fee of the prop I mean it happened this a couple elections ago but it was clear that it was illegal correct yes we put all the I include all our sign information in the document that is also included in the attachment the summary of everything that we have in the code is in there and plus I'm going to be including the link to the property of ERS and so hopefully the candidates will read that and Ed and if they have questions they'll be who to contact for any clarification that they need if I may um M mayor the this the political signs should always be on private properties and um you know and and there are candidates obviously that have people that will help them put the signs up and those folks are not surveyors so they're going to just put wherever they put them but to me the way I understand it is that if the sign is placed in a RightWay they take a chance of losing that sign so by the sheriff's department by the sheriff's department so I I really wouldn't want to personally overthink this if it's not on the private property and there's no agreement there has to be an agreement obviously between the candidate and the property owner to put the sign in there but if it's on the RightWay on the poll or wherever it is they just take a chance of losing that sign we have a collection of signs the city does that have been taken from rways that were placed illegally they're expensive they're not yes they not cheap commissioner C do you have any final recommendation no that was just my thought I mean who cares in a residential area that's not that's not where we had any issue when we had the mayor election okay we will move on to Community Development John's Pass Village Activity Center standards um so this is in reference to um ordinance 20249 appendix D for John's Pass Village Activity Center development uh standards you guys know the background and are obviously extremely familiar with that so what I'll do is hop to some of the revisions we've made based on some of the feedback we had during the last meeting if you'll we'll go to packet page 197 at the bottom d-107 setback requirements we've added um some verbiage to say that setbacks are the minimum required distance from the property lines to the outermost vertical component of a building step backs are measured from the lowest floor facade or the low the lowest floor facade of the building there seem to be some um we wanted to make clarification with the step back such that if you are already if you're already meeting your setb you still have to have that step back doesn't preclude you from using putting the step back when you build so and I kind of added that in the drawing that you guys received which is on your packet page oh I don't have the page number but it's the one that's that I drew up and it kind of showed you the step back coming from the um the facade of the building so that was one change we made then if you go to packet page 200 D- 108 maximum Building height we added some verbiage in the first sentence um to say the following maximum building Heights are measured from the design flood elevation in John's Pass Village District to the eind or the highest point of a flat roof of the building that kind of helps us with um buildings that have maybe different styled roofs and things like that we feel like that maybe cleared it up a little bit for your Eve line versus the top of your flat roof so we felt like that provided a little more clarification um I think one of the or one of the more prominent changes comes under number two the commercial core where we struck out option number c and altered a uh we lowered it from 34 to 30 ft for the height and then for 2B we went ahead and lumped in all of the sizes a quarter acre or more to be no taller than 44t or not to exceed three stories over parking over commercial so you end up be with maximum of four stories so those were really what has changed since the meeting kind of based on some feedback and with that I'll let you guys discuss this do we have any public input no public input okay so commission any comments oh nope sorry mayor vice mayor commissioner just Clarity I've just been obviously following this for the last couple years this one did this change this this change in the commercial cord this since the first reading like a couple weeks ago did that just change the height I'm just trying to follow what the changes were Mar did that since first reading yes so this changed since based on conversation from the previous BC meeting two weeks ago to drop it down to four stories over to three stories correct so we did have it for the larger larger of the Lots we had it at 55 ft knocked to its seed four stories over ground floor parking so basically you get you get a building that's 55 ft tall right as measured from DFE just in that one spot just in that one spot so approved a first reading last time right correct yes and it has been this this was removed now based on the meeting two weeks ago so this is the first time this revision has been published but it passed at the first reading last time so there was another meeting after that meeting to reduce it so so these trying to follow the path sorry so so these Corrections or not corre proposed changes weren't adopted at first reading what would happen is when this goes to Second reading this would be included in the motion that um when ordinance 2024 09 is adopted that it would include these proposed changes to I don't know these sections or these Pages it depend how how um Tom would want that to be said um it's it's kind of similar to it second reading for when the land use was done there were some reductions in in density that were um done at second reading um where it was changed then so um it was adopted first reading as is the ordinances advertised in our legal ad but these would be if if the board goes this direction they would they would adopt this at at second reading these changes and this was staff's recommendations it was kind of based on some of the feedback we received during that meeting and having a meeting with commissioner Kerr regarding the Heights and so we kind of took that feedback and tried to figure out what a happy medium was with that um and also taking into account the heights that are in the comprehensive plan and not wanting to go any lower than those so going to just the four stories seem to be the best compromise not going any lower than that based on one commissioner's opinion and your conversation with that one commissioner because the meeting I was at it was unanimous approval and the multiple meetings I was at prior to that and all the city meetings I was at and probably the Dozen public meetings and all the other meetings that was never come up so just one opinion caused you guys to I just wanted to clarify that yeah so I don't think that's if it's an opinion thing I don't think that's my opinion is that doesn't make any sense because I think it's one person's opinion to change that that's just one guy's opinion on this side I don't see how that could happen well I didn't want to imply that it was just one person's opinion but I also um we've worked really hard on this and I think we want to make sure that we have something that does pass and work for everybody so it was kind of you know in response to that as well so um I just thought it did pass the last the last reading so I'm trying to get clarification where it came from so so it there are two public hearings correct no I know okay so it did not pass at the first me well the first reading was unanimous the first reading was basically that uh that was produced and in the agenda and you know we often have between the first and the second reading either substantive changes or minor changes if it's a substance of change we require a third public hearing if it is a minor change which this may fall into that it would only require the second hearing but the way it would happen it would be a motion to approve this ordinance um as presented with with make notation that the following changes have been made since the first reading so obviously one reading does not approve I I know the process I just this is the first I've heard of it I've just been following this for a very very very long time and I was just wondering the source of it and I I got the source of it it was a meeting an opinion and a staff meeting that changed it so actually like was perfect it just wasn't Mr Mr Kerr right there was a discussion of the entire Commission on this issue and I didn't hear that but I just heard what what I heard that's all that's okay I just all I'm asking is how that what what was the origin of that where it came from so that was the question and if you wanted to you could go back and watch the video and it would reflect the discussion of the entire commission yeah and so that's what city staff was trying to do take that discussion of the entire first reading you know at at the meeting when it was first read at that meeting before the vote Yes before the vote I was clarifying okay okay we have any further public comment I've got I've got Bill CS by the way 400 150th Avenue um looking at the change it looks like it's only affected in the commercial core area is that correct yes everything else stayed the way it was all approved before correct sorry wait hold on one second there was a change sorry in d108 number five also was lowered from 34 to 30 feet uh 5A apologize for that traditional years old my eyes aren't as good as they used to be so yeah no so it was um for Village yeah for traditional Village it was lowered that's a traditional 34 to 30 yeah but we didn't touch the stories the stories remain the same all right well as with Mr beggins I've followed this through from day one that it that it was presented this activity center has been kicked down the can sh the can down the road more times than I can remember a process that when I purchased property in John's Pass was told this was going to be about an eight month's process it's three years I'm not getting any younger I can tell you right now I'm the largest property owner in the commercial Corps area and talked with all of the neighbors talked with all of the commissioners this this change seems to me to I I I I feel like it's directly affects me more than anybody else and I don't like it I don't like anything about it I think the whole process has been just I don't know how many workshops how many I've been to all of them been to all of them it just doesn't seem right I agree with Jeff I thought everything went through I know there was uh some discussion again at that first meeting um I believe um Mr tagini made the motion at that meeting was seconded it was voted on and seems like at the 12th hour you're knocking one floor off and it probably won't affect me but I can guarantee you it's going to affect the city it's going to affect you guys because one of the things I wanted to do when I redevelop my property which I have every right to redevelop my property was to give the city parking that the city needs I'm looking at them spending millions of dollars trying to get parking and you got guy standing right here saying hey I'm going to give you parking this eliminates any possibility of me providing the city which I've provided so many things over the 20 plus years I've been here to the city trying to be a good neighbor and then I get this garbage brought up at the last minute that doesn't hurt me it hurts you it's ridiculous do we have any further public comment commission um could could could I could we get some clarification we're we're looking at the height and we're looking at let's say a height from the ground and then we'll look at the height from design flood elevation would you and the height I guess we're measuring it to the ceiling not to the top not to the roof we're we're going to the ceiling am I correct correct the height the height provided is to the eve line like what's shown there and then or the top of the flat of a flat roof so if you have a flat roof versus a roof that's got an e line with some ornamental stuff coming across it we're just measuring from the design flood elevation to the eve height the all right so so would you clarify what we are intending to do as far as height from the ground and from the DF so nothing the nothing necessarily from the ground as far as a a footage measurement it would only start measurement at DFE okay so what is that what's the height we're looking to get um I guess it is um so 41 416 Ines is that what I'm looking at this is an example so this was just an example of if you had a building that had like a high first floor at 16 F feet with the two twoot you know trusses in between and then 10ft floors so you can Flex it however you want but this is just an example of a random example of what a four story building could look like um so that's kind of why we did it but we do not have any measurements from the ground we just have stories and then height above the DFE okay and and that's fine so so we measure the height from DFE to the eve line so what what are we asking to what are we trying to pass as far as that height so just to clarify for for public correct so in the commercial core it originally was proposed as 34 feet above DFE to the E Line okay that with this change was was lowered to 30 feet from DFE to e line so we just minus 4 feet the pretty straightforward change with that for 2 B and C we've basically gotten rid of the option for the larger lot and we've lumped everything into a quarter acre or more is only is 44t and we've gotten rid of the half an acre or larger which could have been 55 ft from DF so we removed that option lumped it all together and even if you have a larger lot you're still at 44 ft so basically and then the with the three stories over parking or commercial sorry yep so we remove the option of five stories on a larger lot at a height of 55 feet honestly I I am not in favor of counting stories I mean that's just me speaking I just go based on height and um and and trying to analyze you know if if this height makes sense I can I can understand in certain areas you want to keep the buildings pretty low in some other areas you know you have to give it a little bit more height um and then in traditional we did the same thing we lowered it from 34 ft to 30 ft above DF so similar change knocking out the 4 feet okay and and typical ground in in uh John's Pass is four elevation four four right around yeah yeah pretty and then so you add um basically a flood zone there is at what 10 or we have we have 10 11 12 so so so let's say 10 and then you add four feet of freeboard to that right yep so that becomes let's say 14 minus so you got you got a 10 foot of free height basically yeah yeah yeah 10 foot of it the zone two that would have to be flood proofed as well so the over height overall height would be 10 plus 30 feet correct if you measured from ground exactly yep 40 feet height and we did show that that's kind of in that depiction that's in your packet so in our picture included in your packet so with this example we just made showing what four stories from grade or three stories of livable over one floor of flood prooof commercial it this would potentially be 52 feet from grade to the E line of the roof this is an example one any deviation from the height can go before the special magistry right is that what I what I remember from previous discussions if you wanted to go with um the alternate the alternate use that would what would the process be for that Andrew I mean with the height it's locked into the zoning I mean you'd have to rezone to a plan development have flexibility on the height I mean our goal really with the John's Pass was to lock in these height limits so um to and other standards um to try to make sure new development follow follows that um one one thing we've we've with PDS down there though we did add add the requirement that it would still need to meet the design standards and guidelines which um just to we we've tried to basically go look through every scenario that could happen and try to um make sure uh to have control of the outcomes as much as possible but it it with the the height thing they would have to uh re reone it have to do PD and is there any criteria that that we can have in that PD zoning to allow for for a higher height if there are incentives basically provided the the PD would would allow for for that um you'd still have some other limitations and obviously we don't really want to set up a a system where we're encourage encouraging PDS we'd rather have something that's reasonably buildable by RI because the PDS with the development agreements and all that gets you know as we know isn't really our favorite route to go so ideally we come up with something here that that is reasonable um and buildable yeah one one thing that's important to remember is in the this this is basically just a screenshot from the master plan but I wanted to at least show kind of what was previously proposed uh back then in in the various uh zoning zoning districts um and then how they describe Building height and massing um so outside the getting feedback from you guys and the plan commission and residents we did previously look back at it so um back then in in the C1 tourist commercial um which encompasses basically the commercial core and traditional Village uh back then they they proposed uh four stories from greater three stories of habitable over one story of flood proof ground floor retail um and then in some Zone like with depending on uh along Gulf Boulevard within the walk shed of like an activity center like certain like Comm commercial zoning they would allow for um similar height to um what we were previously proposing with the with the five stories from greater uh four stories of habitable over one story of flood proof commercial um I think it's important to have some flexibility because for for height and that's why but we wanted to make sure to regulate both the height and feet and and stories because sometimes commercial space on the ground floor they like the higher ceiling like if it's like a restaurant and they want to be more open but but you still want it give them kind of the flexibility to be able to work with that um we also looked at an existing um building uh the um the Mana Landing um it's like a mixed use building with a a commercial at grade and little bit and some commercial space and then some uh condo units that are now used to is temporary lodging up on here and we um Marcy uh um went went into blue beam and uh measured out like the um height of different uh thing um things on the building um just is another example just to see um there is a rooftop access uh that that's uh up up top where the staircase goes to like a fourth floor that that's open for for rooftop access on this building any additional comments I do I just want to say I understand that that this seem Marcy mentioned that it came from commissioner Kerr but we had a discussion about this this was a consensus are or or or we at least discussed it uh so it uh he did I don't feel like commissioner Kerr just went out of his way to to put this opinion by himself we no I'm sorry and I did I wanted to correct that too because we actually met with Kerr but it was based on the discussion takeaway so I apologize I definitely didn't mean to imply that but it was yeah thank you and then since Mr K mentioned it I did make the motion but for the John's Pass Village designation we voted on we voted on this at our last meeting me initially the the one he's talking about was when uh I made that but that was just the designation the rest of this came had to come later and I may have made that motion also but initially that motion I made was for the John's Pass Village Activity Center designation and then came the work of the setbacks and the height restrictions and all that stuff I just want to clarify at our last meeting did we not vote on this we voted on Heights at the last meeting and we did vote on the height because the and forgive me but for over a year I have sat up here and we've talked about Heights we've talked about Heights we've talked about Heights we've talked about Heights and I know we talked about the heights said when we voted on it because my comment was with all due respect commissioner Kerr wanted to talk about lowering you made the motion to go ahead and move forward with it we all voted yes I don't understand in the exhaustive conversations that I've had with the planning department with the meetings that we've had I started talking about this when I was a planning commissioner I've sat at many public meetings and at our last meeting when the discussion came up of lowering these Heights I said there's nobody here not a single person was here to ask us to go lower and we were discussing changing something that had been drawn up after many meetings many conversations with residents and what I don't understand about the change is the if you make this change and we lower the heights yet again because we have lowered them in the past and if we lower them yet again it's only encouraging plan developments that's all it's going to do because you're talking about taking out larger than a Halfacre lot it doesn't make it in the commercial core we're not talking about the John's Pass traditional Village and I mean which we did lower that to 30 feet of which I don't understand that either because I thought that we had been proposing numbers that were based on existing buildings so to to totally changed the commercial core what about the parking garage there's a parking garage already there that's six stories and you can't tell that it's six stories you cannot look at that building and tell it's six stories but it's a six-story building with retail and parking and we had all exhaustively again talked about keeping some consistency with that so I fail to understand why we're talking again again about reducing height and trying to keep what's there um and to just totally remove a larger than half acre so you're telling somebody if you're quarter acre it's the same if you're a quarter acre or you're a half acre or you're an acre it doesn't matter how much land you own you're going to build this little building and it's only going to be this big and oh by the way when you're building a building you still have all the other things that are required by forward pelis is f and everything else so I mean this based off of the knowledge I have from all of the conversations and meetings we've had you're encouraging you're encouraging to do just the opposite of what the planning department is telling us they want to do I don't I do not understand at this stage in voting on the hype for the commercial core and changing the traditional Village why we're doing that now after a year and a half of us working on this as a commission the only person not sitting up here that hasn't been involved in those conversations for the last year and a half is whoos commissioner and he was on the Planning Commission and the other thing that I'd like to remind all of us is that what was presented to us at the last meeting that we all voted yes on all five of us voted yes was exhaustively reviewed by the Planning Commission before it got to us so we' done meeting after meeting after meeting with the community workshops write down what you want they took all that information they brought something together we did tours of John's Pass they brought that together it went to the Planning Commission the Planning Commission has been very thorough doing their job and then it came to us and we're going to change what we're going to change it again I just don't I just do not understand the need to make changes at this point I don't understand that reasoning when we've all voted on it in the past I guess it's my turn before I forget I I want to talk about the height but on page 198 the commercial core uh number 2A front yard buildings with one story of zero feet minimum setback i' like to address that I understand that zero setback what that actually means are we can do that real Qui can you repeat which which which 8 198 okay and you're reading from which one commercial commercial core commercial Core 2 a one buildings one story zero feet minimum to 5 feet maximum setback I don't understand how that works with a zero yeah so you can literally be at your property line so you can be right on your property line you do not have to do we have any examples of that now in that commercial core area remember when we did the the walk through there was a few of them that were like right up on the property line um especially the back side of a boardwalk so some of those buildings were like right up to the property line that was in Boardwalk that's not commercial on Commercial core if you look at um I can I can pull up an example sorry about that real fast so for example just zoom in real well here's a here's an example of one of the commercial buildings that's like right right up to the um property line that's a one-story building in the commercial core um where where it's basically right up to the sidewalk that's in our right of way but um it's like right on right on it so that's an example here's another example of on story building so these are and then um the sidewalks pretty wide and and our okay I just didn't I'm I'm was was having a mind block thinking you know how can that how can that be because then you wouldn't have any you wouldn't necessarily have any sidewalk but apparently you do because the sidewalk is not in on their City c yeah so anyway I just wanted to point that out and get a clarification okay um after the last meeting um I did vote Yes on a first reading what that means is that it's going to going to it's not going to die it's going to move forward to a second reading that's what a first reading is all about so after the meeting I requested even though I went to the public meetings I requested the data the raw data on the outcome of the public meeting and the city staff was very nice to put this in my mailbox a few days later so I've gone through that everything I can see I went to at least I went to every meeting I let left early on the last meeting um due to other things I needed to do and what I heard was that we just don't want it any higher than existing I personally believe that the staff took that as the height well it was presented as the parking garage in the commercial cor 55 ft it's my belief that that's not what I I was hearing at the public meetings my belief is that the height should we can live with what the height is currently so um City staff and and Robin uh asked me to come in for to clarify my thoughts it's not like I reached out and said I need to have a meeting at actually we have one-on ones quite often with the city manager and the first time the city manager asked me to come in for a 101 no mention that that uh Community Development would be there I blew it and didn't show up and and um so the following but we we set a new time time the follow as soon as he could and um sorry the second meeting I knew Community Development will be there and we we discussed what my what my thoughts were because I was the I was the one that was most spoke most about this um and I spoke that I believe that this needed to that it was going to go to the Planning Commission and then it was going to come to a workshop and I was surprised to see it at a actual board meeting to vote on because we didn't we typically get to see things after at a workshop after it's gone to the Planning Commission not directly for a vote directly from the Planning Commission so looking at the raw data except for one exception which was 44t there was lots of votes for the 34t and lots of votes for the 55 ft so it really doesn't by reading the raw data doesn't give me what I'm looking for but I understand why the city staff wrote what they wrote what we're reading here now yes we've been going over this for three years but it's only now that we have something in writing on what we believe the heights are we didn't have that months ago and that that was that was that was my thoughts on that so during our meeting I asked Marcy and the and the staff what does that look like what does what does the highest Eve in the pass I'm not talking about the parking garages everyone's admits you can't see the parking lot from inside the village you just can't so what is the highest Eve and um we had at that meeting our last meeting two weeks ago that highest Eve was 44t from grade or 34t from the DFE now Marcy was going to make a uh visit back down before the deadline and I don't know that she's had an opportunity to to disclose that but I'm assuming that the drawing on page 211 kind of well I don't want to put words in the mouth what what did what did you find there if you don't mind um after so we finally found the blueprints for this or some of the pages for the plans for this project um we did a different look because it's under minus Landing or something so I actually did go down so the pictures that you see here are taken from the highest floor I could get to the the very top is is locked because that's where their equipment is but from the third floor I did go up there um and did a quick check these the drawings looked represent what was actually built there so what what I was able to measure here represents you know plus or minus what was built so the heights that you see here are what's in place we focused on this building we felt like it was probably a good example of what we're hoping to see with the you know the the dep the changes in depths and how the facade looks and some ornamental stuff with the roof so we focused on this one so I did go down and and look at it but honestly I think the weather was coming in so this was kind of there probably a p of it too but um so this was the main building I focused on in commercial Corp okay so so looking at the drawing this being the highest building in the core in the commercial core the way I'm reading here is the the eve at that very top that Lookout on the top which I don't even know is is occupied it's just it's just a lookout the highest e is 35 ft above df8 is that correct that is correct yes to the E line of the tower cor I think it's important to remember that when this was built we didn't require four feet of freeboard and this was these were built as residential condominium so the density was 15 units per acre if they had built them as temporary lodging most likely they would have built out that fourth floor because they would have had the dead City that do that so it's important to remember those two things when looking at this building since it was built in the uh 2000s um okay that's good good point Andrew thank you um but regardless this is this is probably the highest Eve height in the in the commercial core and that's 35 ft so an argument could be made throughout the commercial Corp right now throughout the commercial core as it stands before any of this passes it's 35 ft from grade to the top of the roof is that correct from grade it for this building to the top of the roof it's uh 49 feet from grade at least in how it's shown at the okay but I'm just wondering if I wanted if I wanted to build something down there was this did this meet that standard I don't know what the current zoning is yes I I think when these were done I know with the uh parking garage it looked like there were some some variances that were done I I don't with this specific one I'd have to see because I I know but but by right if I wanted to build something that not getting an a variance by right come currently it's my understanding that it's 35 fet from grade I I I try to be a property rates Advocate when I buy a piece of property it has certain zoning to it and I should be able to do anything I want to on that property that meets that zoning so I don't want to take away anything but I want to show if anything that we're adding value to property in in the village not taking way anything so as of right now we we measure currently from design flood elevation so this as of right now with what it's zoned right now on the ground it's 34 feet from design flood elevation okay to the the top of the roof I stand corrected there okay that was that was my understanding and that's I'm I'm open for that absolutely all right so I'm trying to work through my my mindset you know we have we have advocates for maximizing the height we have advocates for minimizing the heights we had that during our public meetings um in in in my mind what what I'm feeling from the public meetings and people that I talk to at those meeting meetings we want to we want to maintain what we have so that's what that's those kind of discussions is how I believe staff felt based on our discussions based on the meeting two weeks ago where they they made the decision that based on the far of 2.0 and and and this that they thought that the 44 ft is actually a bit of a middle ground that's actually 10 feet taller than anything in the core currently and again I'm not talking about the parking garage you can't see the parking garage in my mind that's in that's not what we're considering here I don't I don't want you know I can only answer to myself and and how I feel when I'm when I'm speaking to my neighbors I don't want to ruin I don't want to change the feel of the village it's very important part of our community so I think I can make myself get get to where you are here it's either that or I would um two weeks from now want to take that piece out totally and have that come to a come to a different discussion and approve everything else so so we don't slow the system down but um are you talking about are you I'm sorry commissioner are you talking about c 2 C well yeah I mean to do it as I could be I could be convinced with the mo with the with the changes in the green even even though that's 10 foot taller than anything we have in the commercial core walking around where we where we spend all our time you know when we're over at the parking garage we're either up on the boardwalk or you know up up in uh bubble gums or that's not where we spend our time um it's either that or I I just can't if it goes to to the back to the 55 that just know you don't have my vote that's all you're you're say I I need you to clarify that you're saying that they could revert everything back to what it was before and you would vote for it as long as C was not part of it is that what you said didn't you say I would say I would vote for the mod for the changes that they had even though they exceed in my mind what I my interpretation of the of the public comments during all those meetings I believe that that's 10t taller than existing you think 30t is 10 feet taller no 44 feet is that's what I'm saying yes so basically accepting what's being written here I would I would vote that that's a compromise I can live with I mean when you brought this to us two weeks ago that was your recommendation two weeks ago your recommendation was 34t larger than quarter acre 2 a half acre 44 feet Lots equal to or larger than a half acre 55 ft not to exceed four stories over Grand that was staff's recommendation to us after all the meetings that was the recommendation that we received from staff correct that's what we had written thank you I I I mean I I I agree with the staff recommendation that we received two weeks ago I voted yes for that because that's what I agreed with if I didn't agree with it I would have voted no I agreed yes I feel like that represented what I heard verbally said in meetings it also represented that no one showed up to say no I don't want that and I definitely have been a Advocate a big advocate for keeping the character of The Village I don't see where this is going to change the character of The Village this is in keeping with the village the village is going to expand it's going to have changes there's parking lots that are going to go away and become buildings I don't know what those look like but they're going to come they're going to come either they're going to come back to us or they're going to go by right we're not talking about changing the character of The Village but you can't discount that there's a parking garage there that it exists it exists and I I just don't I I can't wrap my head around why we would change we've had all the conversation staff brought us the recommendation and now we're going to change the recommendation and that's a drastic change that's a big change to what what was originally recommended to us for the village that's just my opinion based off of sitting in this chair up here sitting in the Planning Commission before and communicating with the residents in the community that came to the meetings and I totally agree with the mayor on this um two weeks ago when we were in the meeting we all agreed on section d-108 the maximum Building height um the people that I have talked to that live here at madir beach also agreed the whole board up here agreed we all agreed on that um I believe that if if we change it what we're going to do is we're only going to encourage PDS and we don't want PDS and and we don't want the we need something set in stone I don't believe it's going to hurt the character of John's Pass one bit and I believe it's going to bring in more Revenue to our city and it's going to bring in more parking available to people that want to come here so in in that case and and that's why I vote the to go back to the original section D- 108 thank you I I did just want to add to um talking about you know the work that we did to get the information out there along with the first reading we did send mailers out to with everybody with in the 300 foot and obviously we didn't have anybody show up nor did we hear we haven't really we haven't heard ever since we kind of got this ironed out and published we've not gotten a ton of any negative feedback really and so just as a note mayor can I can I ask I'm sorry I had to step out and I came in the at the tail end of what commissioner Kerr was saying about what he would accept as a compromise can you can you restate that just for clarification um I would accept what is written here tonight which is striking striking the 55 ft which is really 65 ft from grade to the uh to the eve which is which is you know the 55 ft would be 20 feet taller than anything in the village so so with all the line throughs and additions that's what that's what you're in support I I would I would I would vote for that personally I I I believe that the village is better served at the 34 feet but I would agree to the 44 feet at the at the Eve um if it goes to 55 feet I'm G to uh hold my head high with my neighbors and say I didn't vote for it so when when someone's Railing at me I didn't didn't vote for it so uh 44t from DF to Eve height right I think that's a pretty good compromise how tall is the parking garage I mean it you can't discount it's there how tall is it because who's to say what excuse just how tall is it 65t 65 so the the commercial Corridor the tallest building in the commercial Corridor is 65 ft and we're voting if we were voting on this tonight the vote is for a maximum height of 44 ft that I mean that's not keeping that's not keeping with what is there I mean we don't know what anybody is going to do with any property down there we know what we can control we can control so what if someone wanted to build a building just like the parking garage yeah exactly like it and they had the land and they came here and said I want to build a parking garage at the other end it's going to look just like the one next to Gul Boulevard and you're not going to know it's parking garage because it's going to have all this retail underneath it's going to have all this retail up top it's going to look like this great little great the parking garage is a great looking building and we already have one it's somebody says I want to build something that looks just like it you're going to say no I'm not saying that's what I want I'm not advocating that but I'm just saying or what if the parking garage Burns To The Ground they can't rebuild it because it wouldn't meet code so if somebody buys an acre of land down there or two acres of land or they own three4 of an acre of land it's over a half acre and they want to build something if we go this restrictive they're not going to build this restrictive they're going to come in with the plan development a PD which is exactly what the planning department with the previous presentation to us of that the 55 ft the whole idea of the way the commercial core was written and the traditional Village at 34t was so that it would encourage anyone who owns property to build by right this is going to encourage anyone who owns property to build out of by right and to go through all the motion because here's the thing and I guess you can change it and do it this way because when a developer goes to build something there has to be an incentive for the developer to go for a plan development right it's got to make Financial sense to someone to want to come in here and do that so when you tell when you make it this restrictive there's a lot of financial incentive for a developer to come in here and do a plan development because they're not going to be able to build reasonable by right or by what we have so you're encouraging a developer to build a plan development there and ask for the moon to build something this as it sits presented to us tonight is encouraging a developer to do a plan development which is exactly what the planning department was working towards not having happen with that logic we might as well just open it up to anything they want to build no I'm not saying that but I mean we worked for for a very long time listening to their advice and so we come in and I I didn't ask him to change anything we sat in the meeting and everyone sitting up here agreed you did have questions I don't understand those questions nor do I understand the concern based off of the community feedback and based off of the recommendation of staff and there are all of their reasonings behind that I don't I don't understand making such drastic changes to things that we had previously discussed and agreed upon if the zoning in the area is 35 ft then the parking garage must have been built with a variance as a PD it must have so I can't speak to that back in back in the time I don't know when that was built that was probably built what 20 years ago whatever it doesn't matter um but the character of The Village is where my heart is and 55 ft is going to is is my belief is going to ruin the character of the village now you have a different belief other people on the board might have a different belief but I have to I have to vote my conscience if it goes to 55 fet then that's fine but then you're going to need to carry the votes by the board I won't be a part of it I think our greatest opportunity in keeping the pass with the character of the pass and I've said this many times is not tied to height or stories as much as it is tied to the Aesthetics of the building I think a perfect example is the Cambria with all due respect to the Cambria that building is out of place in madira Beach it's Square it's not particularly beachy looking at all and had the focus been placed more on the Aesthetics of the building to the height and I'm not advocating that it should be taller but a lot more could have been obtained in Aesthetics if the thoughtfulness had been more to how it looks I think I've said that I feel like a million times but mayor if I could I just I have to I have to say I I've been confused tonight uh but but my understanding was and this is obviously incorrect that we were approving something that wouldn't go higher than the garage that is correct so at 55 ft that's lower than the garage isn't it so that's already not as high as the garage we're doing 5 but we're talking about taking that away right no no I'm sorry before the green line throughs right so 55 was what we basically part of what we voted on in the first reading okay thanks I just needed that clarification thank you any more comments well I've been going to John's past Village since uh 2005 it's a great place and many great memories and great times there along with a lot of people here on the board and at home so uh I don't believe that that the people of mad beach that I've talked to so far um are going to be less inclined going to John's Pass if it was at 55 ft and I believe like I said before we've been up here for a year and a half talking about this it's time that um we encourage a little bit of transactional change uh competent change realistic change in order to build madir beach in the future for for uh future generations to come so that's that's what I I believe so thank you any more comments and just to be clear that 55 ft is for commercial core only correct right doesn't apply to the traditional or any of the other thank you I would just ask Andrew to conf confirm the height of the parking garage is it does is that 55 ft from grade or 55 ft from TF or 65 ft or whatever you were should I just pull up the 65 ft from um from the ground it's 65 ft if you subtract it out if you were to measure it from DFE it would be R roughly 55 ft so to ant I believe commissioner tag lini was under the wrong impression so they're not asking for something less than the parking garage but equal to but equal to the parking garage correct that that is about where it would land to the absolute highest point is roughly around the 50 yeah 55 ft if you were to measure it from our current d right okay because I mean that that number has been thrown around the parking garage 65 ft parking garage 55 ft so I want to clarify it so it's in everyone's mind but the largest structure on this side of the overpass I'm going to call it the bridge is what we're looking at in our packet and that's 35 ft to the eve which is that Lookout on the top of that turquoise structure and that is what I consider the commercial core that that is that is you know the the the parking garage section is almost a separate uh character character District in in my mind but I'm only one vote if I may add um if fa f is two 2.0 so that by itself could really be a controlling factor of height so if you imagine two floors of a parcel that's entirely filled with structure structure that's that's basically 2.0 so two floors of entirely filling so just because we can vote for a height of let's say 55 feet above DFE it doesn't mean that they can really achieve it it just gives them gives them the flexibility of undulating the building narrowing it up giving all those step backs that uh you know we like to see um I I think we're just uh are shortsighted if we don't think of that that uh f as a component of of the height I agree I before you close on this I do have one other comment on page 220 you have a graph about the principal uses and the question I have for the commercial core temporary lodging we have um I'm just going by my notes that the first floor commercial does that mean the entire first floor must be commercial does it mean 20% of the first floor needs to be commercial does it mean 50% does it mean Road Frontage has to be commercial what is that is that can we get more clarification on in that requirement so so it's written where at Ground at grade at the Front Street Frontage you would have blood prooof commercial space partially under the building you could have parking behind that space off of the alley or or behind the building um that we basically roded in the way of when we were looking at that turquoise building it has the the the ground floor retail and then parking behind it under the building too okay can we have more clarification added to that before the next just to further Define that I know you understand it but you you may not be here when not that you're going anywhere I hope that's all I have anything further no okay mayor before we move on we we need to get some Direction when we bring this ordinance back so we're going to bring it back as as it was first read from from what I'm gathering um and so if we're given different direction that you need to tell us now so that we know what to bring back for you and while while you're thinking about that little question I just want to make sure if we're bringing it back like it was at the prior meeting which is what I'm hearing do we want to include the language or highest point of a flat roof because that's a little bit different um and I think that staff is recommending that so what what we'd like to bring back to you is exactly like it was last time except we're going to add the words or highest point of a flat roof in the beginning paragraph of section d108 is is that what we're doing that is what I would agree with yeah I'm seeing head shaking if if I may I would like to add uh basically parid walls that may be 4 feet above that and all also um Elevator Shaft that may be 16 ft above above that so that's a separate code section that's separate yeah yeah okay that's okay thank you we that's helpful to us thank you to also clarify too there was a sentence change on page 197 the first sentence in d107 we'd also like to uh retain that as well it's just more of a clarification sentence good catch yes I think that was a good clarification thank you we appreciate that so we will move on to discussion of potential amendments to alcoholic beverages noise and special events in the madira beach code of ordinances I'm not certain who's I know it's you but I didn't know if anyone was going to present I don't think so because Mr Gomez isn't here okay I remember us having this conversation yeah yes yeah so this is not related to John's past Village activity center right although I'm talking about the transitional section right yes literally from 131st to 133rd all right and only the businesses not the neighborhood behind um madira Bay isn't that primarily where the um Barefoot Beach the Cantina the um right in that little area right there ex now the only two actual businesses aside well okay I understand that Barefoot Beach Madera Bay they are businesses but they're the business of people of residence people staying there right uh the Cantina and the and I think TRS may be the only other business uh in the transitional zone so I had just a little history what I had asked about earlier was since we're doing these specific Zone settings ordinances if we could include uh some things that residents have talked to me about which I I'm in favor of as I agree with them um but it it was pointed out to me that this discussion here is about setbacks and height restrictions and and that type of thing so what I'd like to talk about today is making these changes part of amendments to existing ordinances and the three things just to make it as simple as possible um between 131st and 133rd to the beach but not back into the neighborhood behind Cantina uh I would like to request no Amplified music amended to our our sound ordines I'd like to recommend um no Rooftop Bar liquor license license which uh that would yes Rooftop Bar liquor license or rooftop bars and finally no um special activity permits on the beach during for that two blocks the reason why as as I'm sure you're aware uh Barefoot Beach literally is across the street from single family dwellings uh and there's a lot of single family dwellings on the beach uh between 133r and 1 31st so I would like to see an exception made with those things uh I don't think it's going to hurt any it doesn't prohibit rooftop uh patios which I know Barefoot Beach has uh it's just no no bars up there all right so my request from tonight we can discuss this would be if we could have amendments made to the sound special permit and uh I guess alcohol call uh ordinances amendments made to reflect those requests from the residents okay do we have any public comment there's only one I guess I'm stuck here tonight I'm Jeff beins again I actually live in the corner I actually own the building that the canteen is in one of the partners in it and um good friends with the people who own Barefoot and from my I understand that I understand the idea behind it but I also understand that we have current norise ordinances and ordinances on the books already that govern that so if those were to be broken those business owners would have to stop doing that so I think that's overreach in my opinion on those local businesses that have to abide by the ordinances that are in place right now right so why punish them and further because I don't I'm not aware of a massive problem I think there's one to residences that have a personal issue those residences in my opinion from I'll put my real estate hi on for a second when you buy a home right next to a commercial in a commercial zoned area you know the risk of living a residential home in a commercial Hotel zoned area I mean it's not new it's always been that way right so there's there's that risk so I know it's come up in other places too if I live in a residential area I'd be pissed if somebody opened a bar in my residential area but if I bought a house house next door to a hotel or I bought a house that's zoned for a hotel and next door to me is a hotel I know what I'm buying into so I think that there's a couple people that have a personal decision on this one or a personal thought on this one but I think from a ordinance perspective there's no's ordinances already there's already restrictions in there to keep things in play and I think everybody knows Barefoot is actively trying to get a liquor license you know that they've been in front of your it's been on the agenda item too so I think that's a preemptive move that I think is discriminatory towards one particular property owner and I think the ordinances are in effect to solve the noise issue from the other one so that's my perspective from a guy who lives in the district and owns the property there sir can I ask can I ask you a question je are you so are you opposed to all three ideas the the special events on the beach this the Amplified noise sound and the uh rooftop bars yeah I you're opposed to all three of I think all three of them are already addressed in the as they sit right now I think there's there's an ability to get a special events permit if you do it the way it's allowed to be in the codes right now and I don't know if it's been abused maybe it's news to me but it's already allowed right so why not unless it's been abused if there's been abuse they have pay whatever fines for the abuse right from Amplified music I'm not aware of massive problems with that and you know so yes the answer would be I would post all those because I think all three are addressed in the current ordinances the way that they're written right now and there so thank you y so just just just to be clear Amplified Noise music is is not specifically covered I'm asking for this to be specific uh sound has been is an issue in general because unle our our ordinance says you the sound can't emit 50 feet Beyond The Source uh anytime right uh unless we're going to buy uh our Sheriff's sound uh noise meters which isn't a terrible idea to make sure they have them uh it's hard it's hard to enforce that and and uh with regards to the rooftop bars uh yes of course I'm a I'm aware of the situation at at Barefoot Beach uh but I the neighbors are are also concerned about future future businesses right so those are I mean I uh I'm going to stick with my recommendation we can we can discuss it however you want uh Amplified Amplified sound special oh and there has been abuse on the beach with with special permits uh because and and that's not all the way to John's Pass it's to 13 first once you get to the jetty freefor all you can do what you want it's just those two blocks which have a lot of single family dwellings so uh that's what I'd like to discuss if I I welcome your input commissioners there Commissioners I'm actually open for discussion you know uh I do have one question you said there would still be a patio on on the rooftop but you would not be able to drink alcohol up there that's that's always going to be a tricky area but I mean I guess what I'm is concerned about is issuing a liquor license if uh if like for instance if you're if I don't think Cantina has a rooftop does cantina have a rooftop bar no a rooftop patio no uh they if they did and they sold their liquor uh in their bar I SPO they could take it to the top and drink it if they have a patio up there well plus also the beer and wine license is different than a liquor license absolutely the Cana is a restaurant yeah so okay we can talk I think it's important to remember with the Cantina it's in a commercially it's in a area that's historically been zoned commercial currently it is Zone C4 Marine commercial um so it's important to when when we do restrictions or look at that like we we need to make sure we're we're consistent across the across the board because the thing is if we restrict let's say did additional restrictions on here in the transition potential transitional district with the Cantina if they were just outside of it here then they they would just have the normal restrict whatever is allowed in the C3 or C4 further up and that's kind of The Challenge on the beach side it's already more restrictive with the alcohol licenses it has to be a restaurant where um like 60% of the the gross revenue has to come from food um so like stuff like I think the only active one I can think of is uh caddies and that that um we did that Financial audit and they meet the restaurant requirement and if Barefoot Beach Club did reapply the only alcohol license they would be allowed to would have to be for that like that restaurant use only they couldn't do a straight bar without food because that wouldn't be allowed so I'd like to ask you to clarify just to make sure um so when you talk about the um no Amplified music and then no roof the no rooftop you're not talking about that the Cantina but the no Amplified music the complaints are coming from the Cantina in the past in the right in and in conjunction with the special events when they had Amplified music a couple of times in front of people's houses right so they had so typically they do a Cinco demo Deo yeah that was I mean of course that's that was that caused a lot of complaints so once a year I'm just asking do they do more I don't know because I tend to stick down here in my little hidey hole at this end of the beach so I didn't know if they did more than if they specifically did more than one special event a year or if it was just one and when you talk Amplified music are you talking um so if you have one man a oneman band like he's by himself with his little PV amp is that is that considered Amplified is it are you talking more towards a band or the single guy playing do you know what I mean I mean we listen to a lot of music so I understand music so when you get a single musician playing up on a porch which is what I would consider the Cantina a porch to me that is and you have a single guy up there can you hear him outside you can is he really loud not typically well that's that's that's actually the bar area yeah right right right I guess uh what the neighbors were complaining about is when there's something in the parking lot okay so that would be a special permit right wouldn't yeah wouldn't it if they're if they have a band or music in the parking lot special perm special event permit okay I just want to make sure we all understand because we're going to ask for recommendation and it was going to sound like we're trying to hit Cantina they have a bar up there and that's part of what they do right all right it's it's beyond it's beyond that out in the parking lot that I the special activity on the beach it would be interesting to understand if we could just mark off one section of the beach and change the rules yeah I think that's what we're talking about because it is it's the trans it's it's already designated it's the transitional zone for its unique uh transition from commercial to residential so what kind of special activities do they do out there weddings parties well not so much Weddings But just parties like special special parties they've and it's not a ton of them uh I can only speak specifically to the ones that I've seen they're they're they're just uh like honey not honey uh Bachelor parties or that kind of thing they're they're just celebrations birthday parties but with a lot of noise and you get and they had permission to they said they were giving drinks but they had drinks out there so you have to get a special event permit to have a birthday party on the beach for sorry for 50 people or more oh okay okay 50 that's what I'm trying to avoid is the 50 people or more in that section mayor I know I stepped out for a minute but I would love some input there is a provision in your code currently that talks about Amplified music it's in paragraph 3487 pen 5 it says Amplified outdoor sound music or live entertainment shall be Pro prohibited between the hours of 9 p.m. and 7:30 a.m. on Sunday through Thursday and 11:00 p.m. to 7:30 a.m. Friday to Saturday unless approved by the city manager so the code already provides for Amplified sound Amplified music or live entertainment so if you wanted to change that either the time periods or you know some of their aspect of that but but you've already got a provision that talks about it Mr TR can I ask for clarification the what about the part of the ordinance that says that sound can't uh emit past 50 ft from the source so that still comes into play is that anytime this is an exception it when we look at 3487 that's the enumeration of different possible nuisances but there's make there's there's an exception for Amplified outdoor music it is it is not prohibited it is allowed it just that it has to meet the requirements of 3486 that's the 50 foot rule so we do have it addressed it's just down further in the code so whether it's Amplified music whether it's live entertainment or whether it's um some other source of sound that is considered to be in violation of 3486 that's what the code provides for so I don't know if I answered your question but we we do have a provision for it okay what uh did you hear anything uh troubling with the special events permits in that area like restricting special event which is a gathering of 50 people or more so for Amplified music and entertainment it has a provision that allows the city manager to approve it and so if it goes through a special event process I'm sure that that's where it would be picked up the city manager would have to approve it uh but but do you see a problem with uh change amending it so that you that even he couldn't approve an event between 131st and 133rd the the transition zone you can amend it however you want to amend it um it's just a question of you know will will that address the issue that you're trying to address or will it overcompensate for that one particular issue that you're trying to address but we could change the code OB absolutely okay yeah thanks so Commissioners I would say it's already in the code I would just leave it alone city manager I'm sure he has good discretion he's not just going to go and sign anything so we have to trust that he can make some good decisions well you commissioner there's no there's nothing in in wrong with the celebrations they're just birthday parties and such as that yeah they're just in close conjunction to where people live and I understand you you live in a tourist you live in a tourist Resort absolutely but I think finding that balance in that specific area uh would show the residents we care about you know their their quality of life um and with the ordinance that Mr TR brings up perhaps then what I'm asking for is a sound meter and ask our our sheriffs to enforce this I think when we had a discussion one time before on um Mr Edwards came and spoke about Cinco Deo and um we talked to the sheriff there was some discussion I don't remember exactly if it was that night I think it was or another but about the the noise or the noise meter thing and that the sheriff's department does have one um it's not always at this in our area they have to bring it down or what have you I would like to personally table this not table it but let's bring it back I'd like to go down and walk 131st to 133rd I know I have probably thousands of times but just with the mindset of looking at the homes looking at the landscape of that neighborhood on the beach side but also we could get some discussion with the city manager in maybe some discretionary on approving things for that area and also what could we do to enforce I think we talked about that before in that we have the laws maybe they're not being enforced like they should be and getting some sort of system or some sort of U making it a priority that we enforce that so that if there is a nuisance out on the beach the residents it would be enforced for them um stepping it up a little bit I I'd love for that conversation to start so um if if you would be okay and the rest of the commission would also bring this back to our next Workshop talk a little more have let everyone go out and be mindful of the area that vice mayor tagini is talking about look at that pay attention to what's there limiting allowing someone to have the rooftop um my only concern would be or probably not my only concern but the thing that pops to my mind first is in that area Barefoot Beach has been before us trying to get a license they built that building with a restaurant e area I have never been there so I don't really know but my understanding was that Up on the Rooftop they they built that with a place to be a restaurant to one day be able to serve to their um clientele would that I mean I don't want us to appear to be targeting any specific person I understand you're if some body else came in and built a hotel you don't want another hotel being built there with a rooftop bar is what I hear you're not trying to be specific to what's existing so maybe we could come back and discuss it a little bit more where everyone's got a little bit more knowledge and time to do some research on what we'll be talking about I I I recommend you you just go visit that rooftop okay just see what it looks like up there and and then you'll for also you'll see what it what it was you know I think what it was designed for and you'll you'll look down and you see the neighbors right there since that's not something before us attorney tras is that okay for us to go out and do some of that kind of homework it's absolutely okay for you to walk your city and determine what the issues are and what resolution you can come to then I would recommend we all go on a field trip separately of course yes do we have any decibel limitation in our code no no maybe that would be an amendment to consider so uh next Workshop bring this back and talk about it again agree yes okay I think that's great thank you so the next item is Marina RFP 2024-the wall repairs and replacements good evening mayor and Commissioners uh what we have before you is just a if you need to discuss anything about the RFP that we've put together for it's going to be kind of a group effort between the marina and then Megan will be managing the other seaw wall uh projects throughout the city so if you have any questions for the marina side of it or anything I'm here to answer them for you since we do not have any public for comment Commissioners I have a quick question Krabby yep um what is the elevation above base sea level for these seaw walls and is it consistent throughout with all the all the projects I did see a a measurement here uh that it was going to be taller than existing but I don't I didn't get a feel for what that elevation would be it would be existing it would be existing yes we couldn't we cannot raise it higher because especially at the marina site because we we would not drain we'd have to put in drainage and then the project would be much much larger and we at the marina there's really no um threat to Pro I mean the building's up high everything else is docks things like that that are fixed if we raise we'd have to move elevations of docking things like that so okay I thought I read somewhere it was going from 53 inches to 80 Ines no that wouldn't be it it yeah what did I read I think in 150th it says that the exposed height is 58 to 83 in so all the all the seaw walls will be as existing elevation so just to clarify there's four separate locations the marina site Patriot Park which is just a repair with a sidewalk replacement 142nd in North Bayshore which is a repair and then 141st where the storm water station is which is a replacement both of the replacement seaw walls are going to go within the existing footprint no raising of the seaw walls additional comments one question uh what's the quality of the seaw wall is it concrete or PVC or aluminum the the replacement will be a PVC sew wall PVC one inch thick yes okay it's good product any comment I agree with the um the hiring of and and choosing um speak as the company that's going to do this is that correct that's correct they were uh through our bid tabulations they came in as most qualified they've done several projects here in the city and they were quite a bit under what the second bid was quite a quite a bit under I see definitely okay I agree with that I agree um I think spieler is a obviously from a financial standpoint they're the Top Choice they also come into our city they've worked in our city they know our city they're not they make it they make a bid based on the experience of the bids we've received from them in the past and the work that they know what they're going to do there are an extra charges that come along with their work um do you know if we vote on this at our next commission meeting and approve it what their timeline is for starting and what you'd be looking at for a completion well I'm looking at starting the marina I want to start it after the boat parade which would be the second Saturday it's be right about the second Saturday in December so I want to start it after that I don't want to be having everything tore up they said it would take month month and a half at the Marina at most so they could get that done if we could start say January and then January February which are slower months for us we don't have storm threats generally hopefully that time of year and it's a slower time I think we can Shuffle boats around move things around to complete the marina project so in the meantime once it gets approved there's other projects that they can work on the timeline though is to get the marina done all before March before March and you're already preparing for that correct yeah any additional comments I think we go with staff recommendation I agree just a just a request on the funding are we getting any um external funing Grant on this yes there's a it was in the budget earlier there's a $100,000 State appropriation Grant there's going to be a split 70% Marina 30% towards the public works I recall that great okay thank you you're welcome the next item on our agenda is Public Works ITB sorry is that better can you hear me better now I usually don't have that problem because I'm short I have heels on tonight um so what you have before you is the uh the new the bids received for the new bathroom at archal so as we all know I'm sure you all have visited the site those restrooms are past their useful life they are aged they are Spalding they are not Ada they are also not even close to being large enough for the amount of use that they receive over there so back in 2023 we um I received approval to proceed with the engineering for the restrooms since then it's obviously gone out to bid we only received two bids um we also required that each contractor submit a pre-qualification packet because what we don't want to see is we don't want to have a contractor that is not qualified to build and then be in a situation where one we're doing change orders or two we're not getting the quality that we believe we deserve so with that being said of the two bids that we did receive only one of those contractors are truly qualified to complete this job and that is Coors Contracting they have they've completed several jobs locally that are one very adquate in building and have withstood the elements uh one of those being the bathrooms that are the park that is next to Home Depot which if anybody has seen the plans for the archal bathroom is very similar because I took those plans and modified them to what we needed saved us a lot of money and also we can see a product that works we know that it's going to hold up and we know that it's simple yet clean and beachy and beautiful so before you I have um included in on your packet the bid tabul which shows cor's um construction and I'm having an issue with my computer so let me pull that up really quick there the bid tabulation is in there you will see that cores while they were more expensive than the other submitt I know that they are qualified and that is my recommendation that we move forward with them a mistake on my part but the finance department's not here to back me up I did not include a 10% contingency in that bid submitt so what you'll see is you'll see that base price plus a 10% contingency so in the event of an unseen emergency I don't have to stop the project to come back to you all for a change order and the finance department through my whoopsie was actually very happy with that and said that we should make that almost a standard so that we're not automatically giving a contractor a contingency to utilize that as they see fit I think that's fantastic so it was a good whoopsy um so I am here to answer any questions you may have we have no public comment so Commissioners I'm fine with the recommendation a question as far as permitting did we have does it meet FEMA yes it has been through all the permitting we have been through full review with the building department everything is permitted I don't have anything I don't have any questions either um when with approval of this at our next meeting when would construction start we are going to immediately how hold a preconstruction meeting and my hope is to start construction October 1 um and construction should be no more than six or seven months at most because once we get the foundation in which is the pilings and then we get the built there's there's it's toilets and sinks so and have you already already received the um trailer potty not yet not yet you'll have that by October one we will have that and if I can't if it's still on hold then unfortunately I'm going to have to push back the date I've they're on my list of contacts I just wanted to make sure we were going to be able to proceed nice job thank you thank you so we will move on to Rubicon software contract approval hello again so the the sanitation department has been a hot topic for a long time um but what most don't know is that we've been running in the basically the stone AG um my sanitation department runs off of a sheet that is a spreadsheet that has the commercial pickups every property is listed with what size dumpster they have the numbers of dumpsters they have with their pickup days now I think mayor is the only one that's really had been on a ride along but anybody would be able to see that that is can be quite taxing not to mention depending on the days of the weeks or the time of the year that changes often I would say at least once a week whether it is a extra pickup or it is a a bulk item fee or whatever the case may be I have been searching for a software for a very long time that would work for what we have Simplicity and what we need and I did a demo with Rubicon I also know that Treasure Island who has a very similar sanitation department is also Contracting with them and the system was awesome it was very simple it is a we don't have to purchase any tablets we can download it on our phone with that being said I would prefer that they have tablets so that somebody's not driving down the road and seeing somebody on a phone and then sending or calling one of you or Robin or myself and saying they're on the cell phone again so this system will have every single property in the city on the route map it will have what they have as their dumpster size their pickup days if there's any extra notes for that day I can reroute them at any time I can also see exactly where they are I don't have GPS on any of the trucks so anytime I get a phone call that says oh the sanitation Department's not here yet they're usually here by 9:00 a.m it's 12: where are they and often times I have to say well it's a Monday or it's a Friday or there was a rain delay or whatever the case may be but truly I don't know where they are until I hang up the phone and call and see where they're at so this will allow me to log into the back office see where they are know that if there was an issue with a dumpster being blocked or concrete or something being in the dumpster that we do not allow and also being able to send them a message of hey there's a broken dumpster I need it replaced tomorrow there are a lot of things including a dash cam so we get calls saying they missed my pickup today or why wasn't my trash picked up I can easily go in go into that map go close to that home and pull the video footage to see and say well they were by your house at 9:35 and your trash can wasn't out of the curb and they can say oh yes it was and I'll say well I'll send you the video footage so we will have that information to show because we don't keep the routes the same every day it depends on the driver it depends on what day it is it depends on a lot of different moving aspects so when people on think that their pickup is every Monday at 10:00 a.m. and they come by 730 they call me immediately and say that they missed them and all reality they're like I missed I missed them I didn't put it out the night before so this will help tremendously it is a three-year contract um the reason for the annual cost after the initial first year of the $2,444 is due to the dash cams and also the software on the back side of it but I think that having a system without having dash cams to me I I think they go hand in hand we have no public comment because there's no public so Commissioners um so so this is a whole new uh cost we don't yes uh will this do is this going to fit is this going to work with our budget yes yeah yes sanitation is an Enterprise fund so there there are funds and I Andrew did mention earlier the software in the budget um add Chang while I I've never had an expense in the subscriptions of this magnitude I think that it's crucial that we do move forward with this and currently they're working off of actual spreadsheets yes yes and we have over 200 dumpsters in the city I mean uh the GPS alone seems like a necessity yes uh nowadays and I'm all for upgrading thank you and when you renew will the will we be locked in like we want to continue the contract in the future like in four years or three years it for the third for the second and the third year because this is a three-year contract and I can whenever I come back at the September 11th meeting for final approval I can ask that question if there will be on the fourth year if that is going to increase um but as of right now this is only a three-year contract sounds like a great idea thank you um seems like a significant expense each year 12 $133,000 for V for the I mean I what do why is it so much each each year once you have the hardware and you have the software it's like a subscription fee it is that's a and also it's the dash cams because it's like a rental fee for the dash cams it just seems very significant it's like I don't know you you've done the homework as far as looking for software it just seems like it's very significant cost um for a subscription that's that's that's all I mean the hardware I get and the Jeep you know the tablets and and all that the software and the up upfront fee it's just I'm having heartburn over 12 Grand how many trucks do you have five yeah it's also licensing as well so you it's not like a onetime paying fee when you have subscriptions and Rental of equipment there is unfortunately in annual cost because we can't really buy a system out like this and expect for it to be kept up to dat where they will update it as much as it's needed to be updated so when a dash cam goes bad they replace it correct for free I mean under the yes it is a rental under the subscription fee yes I don't know I have to give it more thought okay thanks um having ridden with sanitation and I feel like I feel like I sit in a unique position you do because I have ridden with um sanitation on two different rides two different vehicles and I can understand the pains they have with the community in trying to well not trying in doing a great job and just like Megan said they didn't get my trash well your trash wasn't out or they didn't get my trash today and then they realized that they're calling Megan on Thursday and their trash pickup was on Wednesday or their trash pickup is on Thursday and they're calling her on Wednesday they didn't get my trash well it's not your trash day um when I rode with sanitation one of the things that I saw was overflowing dumpsters this would be caught on the dash cams yes um Vehicles parked in front of the dumpsters where it was I mean admittedly if I was the sanitation worker I probably would have just driven but they don't because if if they if a car is parked in the way of the dumpster and they have to make extra effort to get the dumpster out of where it is and I witnessed this on more than one location first off they take a picture of it with their phone because they send it to Megan to charge the person for whoever the entity is gets charged for that being that way but then they go over and they finagle the dumpster out because if they leave it and don't go to the extra effort to get it out the customer is not going to stop throwing garbage in it and so where it's already overflowing they're going to keep overflowing it so they go that extra mile so you know when you think they don't they go that extra mile to go ahead and get it out but they have to stop and take a picture and do things send that to Megan so with something like this they're going to pull up there's not going to be the need to stop and take the picture it's going to be on the video video feed and um I mean I read the contract and read through and did a little online research as to what was out there what it really got um I see I see a need in progress moving forward having this so good job thank you anything further City attorney do you have anything for us city clerk do you mean further with this topic or further in general anything further in General now if there's no more on this topic I do have one thing and I I know it's been a long night Commissioners I'll make this quick but I I would like to recognize oh good I'd like to recognize uh some of our residents who have gone the extra mile to save our some of our Dunes as uh as a result of the let's see hurricane of 2023 that washed out approximately 30 plus feet of our sand dunes in front of uh Beach accesses and homes uh they we because of not getting permission from all the neighbors uh FEMA wouldn't restore their dunes and also our our paths so um Bob Bellow and Joan clayin and their spouses and I think one other neighbor uh they got together and they they got 6 they requested 2,000 seots but they got 650 and they pled planted them uh and and some of these you can see the little sprouts and they also fixed I don't know if you're familiar with the 133rd access coming from the coming from the bridge it had started it was it went straight in 1997 when I moved here and over the years it shifted to the right basically in front of residents houses but also through sand dunes so with those they got approval from the City they got seot from uh from dun restoration they did all this work signage and they there's the the Sea Oats that they planted anyway I just wanted to recognize them for that they really they the cost of the of the posts and the Rope uh and all that stuff so Bob Bellow and Joan clayin uh spearheaded that and did almost all the work themselves so kudos to them absolutely thank you if no one has anything further it is 8:29 we are adjourned