##VIDEO ID:NrigDLWuu8A## e 2024 2 p.m. I'd like to call to order the Board of Commissioners regular Workshop meeting good afternoon it is Wednesday November 13th 2024 2: p.m. M I'd like to call to order the Board of Commissioners regular Workshop meeting even moving city clerk would you call the role please Mayor Brooks here vice mayor tangerini here commissioner Kerr here commissioner m city clerk would you call the role please commissioner gabay here Mayor Brooks all present here vice mayor tagini here commissioner cerr here commissioner McAn here commissioner gabay here all are present before I read and um request public comment I would like to add two items to our Workshop agenda the first one is a discussion on the jetty removal at John before I read and um request public comment I would like to add two items to our Workshop agenda the first one is a discussion on The Jetty removal at John's Pass and the second is an update on the storm helain and Milton an update on the removal where we're at with Planning and Zoning permitting Etc if everyone is okay with that yes mayor which section will these go under so I'd like to add the storm underneath Community Development and then the jetty we can either do it first thing I know that there we may have some people that want to comment on it it'll be an update from Robin to us so if every if no one's adverse to having it the first thing we discuss we'll discuss that first would would you need a motion to add those it items no no voting at this meeting so we're just going to discuss it if everybody's okay these are just discussion items thank you okay then I will read public comment public participation is encouraged if you are addressing the commission step to the podium and state your name and address for the record and the organization or group you represent please limit your comments to 5 minutes and do not include any topic on the agenda public comment on agenda items will be allowed when they come up if you would like someone at the city to follow up on a comment or question made at the meeting you may fill out a comment card with the contact information and give it to the city manager comment cards are available at the back table in the commission Chambers completing a comment card is not mandatory do we have any public comment on items that are not on the agenda with that being said we will move on to Community Development and we'll talk Marcy do you want to talk storm update first or last um if make wants to go first with debris update if that's what you're saying our our city manager that's fine I can go last with storm update so right Robin Gomez city manager so our debris our contractor DRC and our monitor tetr began removing debris on October the 16th and have continued through today we they have removed just over 131,000 grab the exact 381,000 cubic yards Cub 1 31,38 cubic yards of trash they have hit every city in the street with one one exception of Gulf Lane uh however the do has removed some of the storm debris off of Gulf Lane uh because there was quite a bit of it that was pushed into this rights of way from 130th including the parking lot on 130th the parking lot at 132nd and then pushed out toward Gulf Boulevard so some on Gulf Lane but the DRC trucks uh have hit every other Street in the city we are roughly 85 to 90% complete of the removal and we're hoping that as they go through the finished Gulf Lane go through the second and third pass as needed they would have all of it removed within the next two to three weeks uh we're hoping that to be concluded probably say by the first week of December it'll be nearing 100% complete but if you do Drive throughout the city there's most streets have had the majority the very large piles are gone uh all of our data is kept on the city website and on our Facebook site uh we'll update on the website as some of those dates were missing but the actual Daily report that we received from De from our tetr the monitor that shows the each day how much was removed the number of calling units the average load call percentage and some other dashboard details the we are reminding all property owners that they do need to put their storm debris as close to the curb as possible the contractors do not want to extend into onto private property for obvious reasons mainly safety so they don't hit any or damage any private property first and foremost and second that they don't hit any power lines or other above ground utility lines that could cause further issues we're concerned about everyone's safety but so that's a reason why we're asking and reminding everyone to push it to the curb including any piles that have been any smaller debris that has been left over after they removed it they do go through a process we are required under various FEMA rules to track everything and so we've had request request from people why are there you know other people behind because they're the monitors they're watching and Advising as to the the debris removal and whether it does qualify to be removed um appliances were removed separately from construction debris and separately for most household Furniture um but again it it'll it'll continue as I said for the next few weeks we the number of calls have diminished somewhat in terms of people stating well when are they coming by or they came by they didn't pick up anything they picked up some part of some part of certain piles depending on the composition uh we did send the reminder of how to place the debris how to pile it uh put it on the pile and try to obviously not have any trash bags the trash bags they need to open them and then look inside to see to make sure there's avoid any hazardous materials so I misspoke I apologize I had intended to ask for the jetty discussion first um I think it all ties together Into the Storm where we're at sure so the jetty sorry before we leave waste can I ask a question do we do we have a final answer about who's picking up hazardous materials like paint and stuff we were asked to separate contractor pick so they are going to eventually pick that up okay yes that will be included on the third the third and final pass along with a lot of the vegetative debris a lot of calls are being asked about that but since we had a very minimal amount of both of those items they will pick those up on the third and final pass thank you you're welcome if I might there's been some misinformation from some of the drivers then because we were personally told that we they would not be taking hazardous waste um so we had it remove we had it taken to the recycling center today so what we have to remember is that the driver that is coming to your property is coming there for probably the C and D material they are probably not a pickup for the vegetative debris or for the hazardous material they are strictly for just the CND so they're not going to know or have that communication but I have verified it with DRC that they will pick up the Hazardous Materials okay what what about drywall that is considered c and d and that that should have already been placed at the curb and should have been mostly picked up on the on I know John's Pass AB has had a first pass no I I'm not for me I just know a neighbor that was that was told that we're not picking that up we don't pick up drywall it correct it has been removed if it I mean I I drove the entire city yesterday the the majority has been removed including drywall sheetrock other household construction material wood planks vinyl sighting there's just some Mis misinformation because after he was told that he paid someone else $1,000 to come get it unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation going on out in the public so what I would inform your your residents and neighbors to do is to call the city directly to get the correct information because we've been posting since day two that the FEMA the flyer of how debris needed to be separated and in that it's specifically listed the hazardous material in one pile C and D in one pile appliances and Furniture in a separate pile okay so it's been pretty clear I'm glad we're discussing it because get the information out but um the driver is the one that told them we don't do that the drivers don't have all the information okay thank you you're welcome so we're still doing uh whoa the second and third pass uh as the city manager said um December the 1st we should be close to 100% finished right correct and madir Beach I said probably the first week in December we're going likely anywhere from the first to the second week of December we should be close to 100% I would I mean we're going to give likely provide that the final final pickup date will be approximately December the 20th but we will provide all of that information through all of our media we will go out and physically physically on site at each property each residential property to be clear post a flyer bright and colorful that'll say please push your reminding need to push your debris to the curb and it should have a by end date you need to do this by this date otherwise the debris will not be removed we had 90 days to remove the debris in order to be reimbursed by FEMA thank you how is the debris picked up from alleys same I mean same contractor will pick it up from so right so there's we have one Alley between Gulf Boulevard and First Street and they will pick those piles up as well unless I'm nope that's correct there's several different types of loaders in the city I'm not sure if you all have seen but there's anywhere from dump trailers with the skid steer to the big double wagon loaders to even ones in between that so whatever can get down those streets is what is being sent that way thank you and so Gulf Lane sort of falls into that area that's the last one that will be picked up so this is the just up on the screen the sample of the report and this one's from middle part of October several weeks ago and showing the minimal collection um if we when I pull up a one from this week or from yesterday it shows most of the city um unfortunately I'm not able to pull it up but we will add all of those reports on the city's website so that they're all available day by day and again just a reminder they do need to push it to the curb um they any questions please call the city they can call the main number at 391 9951 or they can call my cell number at 588 014 and let us know what's happening out there again it's looking much much better but there's still a few weeks left of work to be completed any questions do we have any public comment on the debris removal Robin could we discuss now the jetty sure and give an update on that and discussion related to all the storm damages and our Jetty the one at the end of the southern part of our city limit or the southern part of the sanded damage from more than a year from Hurricane Adalia so from that time the West End of the the railings and all that were damaged the subsequent storms caused more damage in the last year a lawsuit was settled with someone who tripped over the sidewalk um that sits on top of the jetty um it ended up our insurance company paid $50,000 the county paid some money as well we've had other issues and so as part of all of our repair and damage review we decided it's needs to be removed and replaced so it was removed earlier or at the end of last week and we will begin the process we need to speak with the county and the federal government because the during the so my my understanding and Megan weer can clarify the ownership of the jetty has been an issue for some time whether we own it the county owns it or apparently it's under some sort of federal U also involvement or some relationship to that aspect the pelis County property appraiser Maps show that it's within the city limits the lawsuit that I referenced that was settled a few months ago in the resolution of that lawsuit it was deter pelis County took ownership of the Rocks the actual Jetty the city the top part that's why the resolution to the lawsuit was split between the city and the county so it uh the only to my understanding the city's actual maintenance or repair of the Jett of the actual sidewalk was after the person fell and then the city staff went out and marked the uneven cement piece that that apparently C led to and caused the fall so that's where we ended up in terms of who owns what so in order to repair it back we're we will have meetings with the county and start that process and determine how long that'll take but I'm estimating it would be anywhere from six to nine months to get it back up and running until then it is a it is closed and we have closed off on the East End with barricades and signs and then with other barricades on the North side as if anybody's been out there there all the vegetation was washed away by Hurricane elen well some was washed away from the two storm or three storms last year between uh I'm sorry two storms between uh Adalia and the December storm uh and then certainly the three storms this year led to additional debris being removed and now hurricane alen damaged all the railings and damaged more of the the walkway it is it was an unsafe area still is an unsafe area and after we barricaded to keep people or placed restrictions on the west end of it people still kept walking out there and and fishing people are still doing that now that now it's much more clear to stay away or stay off of it and deputies are going out there and reminding folks to try to comply with the sign Edge and stay off of the off the rocks that are now all of the any rebar or any other pieces that were out there have been removed anything else may think that covers it so before I asked for public comment um I would just like to say why I wanted this on the agenda today in the past the city has done things that were not part of the commission's discussion and the community wasn't aware and we have been and I say we collectively because we sit in these chairs we have been attacked on social media for not knowing what's going on in the city and things happening I felt that it was important that because this is a big deal to many people in the community that the jetty was removed that we discuss it in an open Forum so that it is not just the subject of a social media conversation that being said I was particularly upset that the jetty was removed because after helain I had a conversation with the city manager multiple conversations about the jetty and I'm telling you this because I had already said this prior to it being removed to someone in the city The Jetty had been Robin had stated it had been damaged and there was discussion about removing it it and my conversation was that I felt just being one person on this commission that I felt we should have a professional look at the jetty and decide whether or not it was repairable or if it needed to be torn down and in that discussion there was discussion about whether or not the county even wanted anything to do with it if it would be all on the city and my opinion was that if a professional looked at it may the determination whether or not the jetty could be repaired that that could then be brought to the commission and presented and the commission as a whole could collectively vote whether we wanted to accept that cost and pay to repair the jetty or if that professional said that the jetty was beyond repair that decision could be voted on at that time with Community input so I was personally not happy that the jetty got removed and that there was no discussion on this plat form and that there was not an opportunity for the residents to engage in that conversation and I'm not a professional engineer but it stands to reason that repairing something could be far easier through permitting and in just doing than completely jackhammering it out and starting from scratch and the other concern that I have is the whole process of Permitting anything through the state and the county is very lengthy and if we are able to rebuild that Jetty within nine months and if it's even something that we can afford to rebuild in nine months if that's something in our budget um I would be very shocked so I wanted to be on the record on how I felt on it and on the conversation that I had had one-on-one with Robin and again it is only my opinion and there are five of us that sit here that have the opportunity to vote and make those decisions so and to add whether we repaired it or or redo as we're proposing you still need to go through all the permitting process that would have taken it doesn't change the permitting process I still believe the process of repairing is different than the process of tearing up and not having a professional look at it and give us a report says that's just my opinion mayor I I I must say that I totally agree with you this should have been brought before this board and we should have shared the idea with the neighborhood I've gotten many calls many messages that what's going on and I absolutely had no idea I had to go down there and see it for myself and then respond to it so that should not be and and secondly you know for every project we need to obtain a permit so we need to whether it's to the state whether it's to the county or even our own Building Department we need to obtain permit for whatever work we do and the other question I have where is the funds H how do we pay for it from what sort of a fund in our budget are we paying for that repair and then the last item is basically erosion control silt screen that would also identify the area of construction now I understand there's a lot of erosion going on in town there's a lot of sand all the over the place but at least for this area we can show some responsibility by erecting some Sil screen and uh at least letting npds know that we're making every effort npds stands for National pollution discharge elimination system which is a which is a d mandated uh requirements so so that identifies the limit of construction as well as uh not allowing an erosion to continue going into the golf or or in the parking lot so um I I feel that um this should not have happened without discussing it with us and and the residents thank you I'm just um I've seen the emails of it being broken maybe I Mis read them I this is new to me that it's been removed so what what extent of removal are we talking about the just the concrete topping or the or the rock the concrete top the concrete top you want to the sidewalk provide some details the area that people were walking on the sidewalk not the Rocks underneath it we removed the top part that extended all the way out to the end that had rails and those rails had been damaged we had closed that far west end I don't know the last 20 ft of that mean or 30 ft probably the last 15 feet were closed off for the past 6 months at least at least yes so we removed that and then the rest of the walkway to keep people from going out to where they that's the only way we could have removed or continued people still kept going back there well I mean when I was down there the other day the concrete is still there it was just broken up it's removed so it's removed so I mean rebar I have a lot of pictures from before and after I I was there in the morning of hurricane elen at 8:00 a.m and I was there at 5:00 P pmm I have many many pictures uh and videos of happening of what's H what was ahead of ahead of this construction and I've also taken pictures of as late as like 10 minutes ago 15 minutes ago so um yeah yeah I think that my point in all of this is um I think it would be very poor judgment to not see this as another opportunity of where something should have been brought before the commission that wasn't and it's important when you make big decisions like that and you're when you're removing and regardless of what any one's opinion is a a considered landmark in our city was removed and the decision was made at a staff level that should have come to the commission it should not have been removed without having some conversation I'm not saying that we wouldn't have come to that same conclusion and that we wouldn't have voted on that but when you go out and change the fabric the look of the community and you don't do it with the support of the commission it creates the opportunity in the community for turmoil and I don't want to be a part of that I don't want that to be who we are as a staff as a city and I don't want I don't want that to be what we're doing and so again that is why I wanted it to come up today so that it could be discussed out in the open and we can hear if any residents are here today that want to talk about it and the commission can discuss discuss it also because this is the only platform that the five of us get to talk about anything do we have any public comment I'll come back commission I could go either way um it would have to be I'm talking about whether it should have been broken up or not not whether it should have come to the board I do believe it should have come to the board so to that point I would agree um now whether to we had come to the same conclusion I Pro I would have agreed that it should be broken up only because I don't think just the signs do not trespass if it was a point where you're you're going to get back in in another litigation somebody else was going to fall um so I mean I would have to make that call at that time at that meeting but that's how I'm I mean it's been there for over 20 years but it's been a but it's been a sidewalk it's been you know I don't know what the condition was I would have had to which was my point on a professional should have looked at it brought it to the commission and that would have made the decision very easy for us as to whether or not it was repairable or not that's my opinion I'm not an engineer I can't look at anything and tell you whether or not it can be repaired or whether or not it needs to be tore down that's my that's that's the point that I am making it could be the same outcome I I don't know I don't know what that would have been I just don't want it to happen again I'm just saying the the unevenness if they've already been liable at once um but anyway I don't want to get off topic the topic is whether it should have been brought to the board I believe it should have been but can't go back so we just need to expedite having permits applied for I guess yes because we know how that process can take forever I also agree with the mayor uh I believe that it should have been brought in front of the board it should also be brought in front of the madira beach residents um for discussion and but also I can understand where one person has already sued the city um it was a liability but if we all come together and discuss it as a team that shows Unity instead of um not knowing what happened and not being part of the team um I think we should all discuss that in front of the board definitely permitting it through the state and local government whether it's the county or the city is also another thing so um um hopefully state would not be and the county will not be um looking bad up on us any further comment okay so Marcy I'd like to hand it over to you to talk about the update on where we are in post storm with the planning department and then we'll go right into the additional items that are on the agenda sounds good thank you mayor um Marcy Forbes Community Development engineer and um just to kind of give you a snapshot how this starts with storm recovery is after the storm passes and the city is safe to be back on the island we go through and we do damage assessments and those are the quick drive by ones where we take pictures of the homes one or two document the water line that we see take measurements so that's kind of our initial dashboard assessment with hurricane Helen I think for the first time in a well obviously it was a firsttime storm for us so we had a significant amount of properties that were um deemed major damage and that's based on the 3 to 4ot water line that was present um with those declarations in the storm storm damage assessment tool those properties then um get brought into a map a GIS map from that then the direction comes that at a minimum the properties that are deemed to be have major damage they then go into substantial damage review so for the city of Madera Beach that easily meant over 1,700 properties needed to be assessed for substantial damage um and that is that's where at today so we have um as part of our our working with the county the county had orchestrated um worked with fdm to get a subc consultant here and they're called Tidal Basin a few weeks ago tidle Basin started doing their substantial damage reviews throughout the city um meanwhile we had already started doing substantial damage estimates as a team so we had a few weeks Head Start and um utilizing the substantial damage estimate tool to give you guys a kind of a brief idea of how that works is every property is entered so every property is put into the database owner information partial number and it also breaks down how the property is constructed the foundation type slab walls um HVAC exterior finish interior finish Appliance each of those components are assigned a percentage value so each of those components are used to say okay if my house is worth $200,000 20% of that value comes from Foundation 30% comes from Super structure just thr out round numbers with that tool we then go in and enter what we think the damage is to those components from the storm and then that ultimately renders a substantial damage or a non-substantial damage determination that's a lot of data to ENT for all those homes so that's where I know some of the frustration with the permitting and things like that are coming into play um the team is moving as fast as we can to do as many we did get some data this is the first data we received from the subc consultant Title Basin yesterday and they gave us the information for 22 properties now they have done their initial swipe and it looks like they've we have the map and it shows that you know they have gone out and inspected for over, 1400 properties but then it's coming back from the field and getting that data into the system and then they have a QC review process before they then released it to us so I have just started to QC their data as of the 22 properties that they've done for instance 70% of them came back substantially damaged so I'm reviewing how they came to those numbers so that that's kind of one of the processes we're doing meanwhile we've done a staff approximately 50 properties we did start issuing substantial damage determination letters or uh notifications last week but we only did them for properties that were not substantially damaged we had a few of them in the system we wanted to get the message out and kind of see what the feedback came and once we issued those through the MGO permitting software we got over 50% of the came back with immediate questions so we know we can't do that 1,700 times so basically with that we're we've redrafted the information that we're kicking out now with those determinations so it's going to be a more complete package really giving people a breakdown of the next steps so that they can then enter their interior remodel permit application into the system so it goes from once we do our substantial damage determination and deem it's let's say not substantially damaged we communicate that the homeowner can then start submitting the information for their permanent remodel again the trick becomes balancing trying to get the substantial damage determinations done but also balancing the intake of interior remodel permits so that we can get people moving so we are working through that I will say the biggest message to the homeowners is I will not ask you for a document that I do not need so every piece of information we're asking for is a must I don't want to inundate our staff with a ton of paperwork it needs to be clean legible easy to follow and that's going to be the biggest help and the biggest ask that we can get from the residents um we do have we did start off with interior uh demo permits we have I believe it was over 7 650 around 650 uh interior demo permits in the system which is amazing thank you guys um we did did um we ourselves did a probably about over 150 inspections ourselves after that and with getting that sample data we then said you know what let's count on the residents to upload their pictures and then we can utilize that data to help in our substantial damage determination so we didn't we we didn't need to go out and inspect every property we've now given homeowners the option to upload that data and the pictures that we're getting for the most part people are more than happy to share 40 50 60 photos so we are getting good feedback that way so we are utilizing that data um let's see and it'll probably be the way I see it going now it's going to be a few weeks before we can start issuing interior demo permits but we will do that as soon as we can um balancing substantial damage determinations with those um this week people will start getting notified that they are substantially damaged so while we' released some information for property owners that are not substantially damaged this will be the first week that we're going to start notifying people that they've been substantially damaged what I'm seeing with the data is properties that are slab on grade CMU construction and did not get a lot of maybe didn't lose their HVAC equipment fully um are seeming to be doing okay but it's really coming down to the pelis county property appraiser value for the structure the FEMA valuation if they're low that's tends to be driving the higher percentage of the substantially damaged I do foresee some of those properties will probably easily be moved out of that determination with the ACV appraisal with the private appraisal but those are the only two values we can use we either use pelis County property appraiser valuation or a private appraisal so those are those are the things We'll be asking for in the resubmittal packet or your a pill packet so we're you know we're working through you know getting that information out there as well um let's see we have been we're having weekly meetings with the county so the county has been very involved and very helpful uh they've really worked to help the communities come together make sure we're kind of all on the same page doing as much the same as possible I know you hear other communities are maybe doing different things but when I reach out to St Pete Beach when I reach out to Treasure Island their messaging may seem a little different but that path we're all still landing at the same space none of us are really issuing interior remodel permits we're still wrapping our head around the demo permits substantial damage determinations how to get those out there um but it we are we are leaning on each other we are reaching out to each other to gut check each other um get advice um so we're not doing this um in a vacuum by any stretch of the imagination um so anything we learn anything like that it's it's been a really good opportunity for me to forge some friendships and I think you know I see a future where our participation together as communities can be um greatly enhanced and can really benefit all of the the Barrier Islands so that's um that's something I'm looking forward to in the future that I think starts has started with this incident so um let's see we are um for permit we are waving the permit fees so there will be no permit fees I know that discussion is coming up later but um that was really important I know to a lot of people so um we've been pretty Adept at getting that taken care of as well and I think other than that um I know that's kind of a lot to digest I'll kind of just let you I'm sure you guys have some questions so I'll just turn it over to you guys to ask some questions and I can fill in any blanks if I've if I've left out anything Commission thanks Marcy I I I I know you mentioned that you have not issued any interior remodeling uh permits yet is that correct correct have we have we or maybe you can answer mayor are we talking about uh waving those fees for any hurricane related damage or rebuild that's later in our packet tonight we're going to discuss that thanks I'll go next sorry um um I know you guys are putting the hours in the days and the hours and um if if they've already had an inspection are they still requested to send photos no if we've well if staff has visited the site and taken photos we do not need any if the only site visit was from the subc consultant Title Basin and they weren't allowed into the property we will we will request some interior photos Okay um so we are requesting those um is there a anything on the website as far as a status for individual addresses properties that can they can see still in review um you know U anything to tell them a typical turnaround from the time uh they've uploaded the photos or or an inspection has taken place is the typical time two weeks is it a month is it six weeks um I think that's the biggest frustration is like I I want to get back in my house I um what can I expect I can't get any information so how can how can we help with that no and then that's I completely understand that frustration where as of tomorrow two weeks ago we were kind of we were given some final data that we needed to start really crunching out realistic substantial damage estimates um the property the Appraiser's office originally we were going with a set dollar per square footage that I mentioned during that meeting I think it was like 205 once they started running the numbers they realized that data just really wasn't something you could just throw across the board so now two we like I said as of tomorrow two weeks ago every parcel has like an individual dollar value associated with each of the footprint given that really two weeks ago we were able to start crunching out data as of yesterday like I said with Title Basin I'm really starting to be able to review their data so my commitment is now that I have kind of those parts and pieces I am going to figure out how to better communicate timing I feel like now I'm finally at a a place where I've got those parts and pieces to really start giving some good answers to that um so my goal is Maybe by Friday to have something where I can give people something to start counting on and sinking their teeth into um but it's been mainly about understanding what we were up against how long it really takes to um I think the term was hand Jam the data into the system to get it back out and at first it's much more timec consuming but I'm constantly thinking of ways we can do it better and faster but we will start putting those that information out there I just need another day or two given how some of the pieces have now fell into place right I'm just for you to do your job you can't be on the phone talking to people all day I get that I think everybody does um I'm just I'm I'm thinking as a homeowner that's that's still able to live in their home as uncomfortable as it might be and um the frustration of okay I know what my private appraisal was or I know what my FEMA appraisal is and I've received uh estimates and I feel very comfortable that I'm well below is there anything that can be done as far as um installing a hot water heater be able to have hot water is there anything to be done put drywall on one one side of the wall so you still have access to the other side is there are there anything or you really can't do any you just just just can't live there basically it's hard realistically the effort that I would go into plucking out those one pieces to do that one thing I might as well just go ahead and grab that hole permit and get them in and out the door and that's kind of like a a OneTouch in and out but I think and Frank can maybe speak this a little more if somebody's reached out for an HVAC or a water heater we have been I believe flexible in issuing those with with the comment that you know please be advised you're still being reviewed for substantial damage deter ation and any money you invest into your property is kind of at your own risk at this point in time so I do think we've been working to at least give those components to it but when it comes to the drywall and things like that my experience is once you get going with that you you want to keep going and so I feel like we're doing everything we can and the the one-off cases are I know what everybody wants and we're working to get them in there and I think the time the time is going to be best spent if we can get the damage terminations out get the the model permits back in and get people going but if anybody feels like they're being held up from hot water or cold air please let us know I think we can work through those to get people comfortable like that that's why I'm bringing up the questions give you an opportunity to bring these things to light um I had another question it's it's um slipping my mind let's see um if it comes back to me I'll tell you yeah first of all I think you guys are doing an excellent excellent job we are faced with something so catastrophic in our area that we've never even in history witnessed this before so the steps you guys are taking implementing um going to be more proud um the com the commission board we are the speaker for the people I'm a speaker for say District three so they can call me and explain their frustrations you know and and we can talk about those and um there are very few uh major frustrations but um one you already answered was like uh one of the neighbors um uploaded his picture say 15 days ago no he hasn't received any kind of Comm communication although he has um say contractors waiting in the streets or lit not lit but you know what I mean um the communication part of getting back to them so what going back to what you were talking about so I can tell my constituents another week or three days or tomorrow or something like that I know you guys handle a lot and I know Jay and Frank uh also with the amount of inspections that has been going on it's a heavy load but um if we can just if I can just communicate to my uh District 3 or all of madira beach if they uploaded them say couple weeks ago or when should they expect a um some sort of response so and kind of goes back to what I was so up until last week we've been doing um open permitting five days a week right we stopped I think last week we switched the schedule so what that's done now is that's freed up two more people for me at least three days a week so I want to be able to give that information but like I said I'm just now kind of getting some of the pieces together and my team kind of headed in that direction my goal is to have the best possible update by this Friday to really be able to put some metrics to what that takes so it's kind of been the first time that like I said got some information from the subc Consultants now I understand what that data is going to look like and what it's going to take for us to process that how accurate it is is another thing we're vetting right now so my goal is to really TR I would like to have an update and be able to give people something they can count on and my goal is to have that to you have you something that you can share with the community by Friday fantastic and just one real quick one of the residents also um ask if they if you could send out a letter um just from some some residents don't know exactly what is the most important thing to do and what is the least important thing to do so they're going to pick something in the middle sometimes and then realize that they didn't pick the first thing to do so one resident said Can you issue or a letter that says the major steps first and then up to 10 you know 10 points 10 bullet point points so what is number one to number 10 and is that like in reference to getting ready to submit your permit or is that just anything specific or or just uh exactly the the permit process also but also like uh we know that a demo permit is very important right so we can go from there gotcha and that way they know exactly what they have to have step by step yep and that's and that's kind of one of the things and as a matter of fact today I had um Joe working on the assembling a package um with some examples of exactly what we're looking for so that people don't overthink some of the stuff we're asking for and that we're clear about it um setting up for instance what a schematic should look like when you turn it in and actually in that packet providing them a blank grid sheet for them to use to to fill out just like our example so we are trying to that's one of the things that we have been working on so we are absolutely intending to get a blowby blow kind of ready and like I said it was it was eye openening sending out some information last Friday and the questions we got back were like okay you know this is isn't clear and this may be misworded so we're kind of having to be a little agile with that but I think we the packet we've put together today looks really good and and we've kind of had it but like I said it's kind of once you start getting that that feedback that On th on those specific items you can kind of see where you're lacking or maybe not clear enough so I think we've really addressed that and I think we've kind of probably done a pretty good job so the next round we send out we're going to be prepared and see what kind of comments we get back from that but yes we can we're absolutely working towards towards that kind of stuff yes just to jump in that um they the commission may not be aware of this that went out so this week and I don't have enough um there's if y'all will share this week the permit department and the planning department had a form that staff went out and taped to every property's front door on the process for demo permit and so I would anticipate that when we get to the point point of where Marcy's talking about Landing that we'll have something else in addition that we'll be able to take and put it every home uh because a lot of people aren't on social media and they're not getting their information through Facebook or any of those areas so taking out and putting the Flyers on the homes seems to be a good option for getting messaging out to the community as just a and the morning too we discussed maybe doing some short videos and you know putting them out like saying hey okay you've got your substantial damage here's your next step and actually showing people some stuff with some quick videos to help but to the mayor's point we did have staff out papering information out there in the community and to that I definitely want to thank the staff from uh wreck and from parking they've been pitching in from data entry to being out in the field talking to Residents so it's definitely been a all hands on deck that's aw thank you also that's awesome you guys are doing a really good job also you know I'm passing along What the residents are saying me also but just to reinforce uh what we're going through and what you guys have gone through you're doing a great job no doubt the staff's doing an amazing job um we've also have been dealing with the biggest catastrophe that we have ever faced I've lived in this County now for 45 years never seen anything like this um however we cannot lose sight of trying to get the residents in their homes and business owners in their businesses that should be priority number one how we can achieve that would require certainly um some some fresh way of thinking and I know being in building departments and permitting you know that all is has always been priority number one but I think since we're dealing with massive number of people uh maybe we can be creative in ways to have some of these homes and businesses rebuilt uh specifically for instance if if the damage is at the you know couple of feet three four feet above the ground what sort of a permit would be needed Electric electrical permit and just minor stuff could we defer those requirements to some professionals maybe an electrician or electrical engineer can go in and take a look and say well this is what you need to do same thing with hbac and uh and get get these drywalls up and get people to to move in their homes uh you are I know totally overwhelmed No Doubt you can't really be dealing with these number of people the frustration level will even go higher as time goes on and um it is unfair to a residents to have to stay away just because you know we don't have the Manpower we have to go through the process at least from their point of view so if there's anything we can do to get the permits or or or more more than that get the people in get the businesses in um yeah I I would uh I would commend you for that um that's what keeps me up at night how to do this smarter better faster quicker I was um you know talking to the mayor yesterday I was born in fens Cola Florida in 1972 I vividly remember hurricane Frederick coming through as a child and I've remembered every hurricane since um hurricane Sally took my family out of their home for nearly six months they lived in a hotel um my grandmother got kicked out of her home with Ivan so the desire and the pain and the frustration is absolutely not lost on me and is very close to my heart so it is a driving force for me so we have we are leveraging every possible way that that I think we can get this data in and out such that the Community is protected such that we're not facing unfortunately what Cape Coral was willing to share with us that they went through so we have asked for additional plan reviewers I've asked for an additional CFM we will be asking for additional inspectors through weboc I do know a couple of communities who have received some staff and it is not necessarily as as wonderful as I think they thought it would be and if I'm an to invest in people and get have to train them it's going to be with our rec center people because I these people care they you know the kids who are walking around here and I say kids every you know everybody's younger than me but they've done an amazing job and stepped up they were just talking today and they were actually they're not just entering the data they're like thinking about the data they're entering and talking and asking those questions so but trust me I am constantly trying to figure out how how we can do it how we can pluck data how we can how do we identify properties that you know do we run them through the appraisal and if you're a single story home and your appra your value comes back at $475,000 odds are you're probably not substantially damaged can I kick those to the top and then run them through the software so I'm yeah it's it's constant so and we are asking for support um so we do have those requests in so have you done any brainstorming with maybe some of the other people as a group to maybe collectively come up put some creative ideas have you had like a maybe group of five or 10 get together and say guys how can we do this if I you have to keep in mind that we do have to follow the FEMA rules and they're pretty specific I that's so we can be as creative as we want but it has to comply with the feema processes and that actually is going to be my next question because I have I have another question related to that substantial damage which generally it should be in conformance with fumal regulations so yes I'm communicating with other communities like I said Treasure Island St P Beach I can pick up the phone right now and call both those communities get an answer get some feedback we're definitely sharing thoughts I mean even on Sunday we were talking so we are um sharing the if if if one of us learn something and it works out and it's what we receiv we're we're sharing that with the other community so we that those those conversations are absolutely happening and of course my last question has to do with that substantial damage how is that different from FEMA's assessment so so FEMA has their own group of people that go around and assess the damage commission could you speak a little closer to the microphone thank you so um so substantial damage is is being conducted by the city and of course FEMA has their own assessment group so so we would I mean are we doing this twice no so um for for our part of it we we didn't want to wait for the assistants to come we had the availabil we had the opportunity to get out there and start doing substantial damage estimat pretty early on so we began doing those the only I know FEMA has come out and done some site visit but as far as doing substantial damage data collection and entering it into a system that they're in turn sharing with us is not a process that's happening we do have the subc consultant Tidal Basin who has been in the city blanketing the the properties and and doing that so what happens when they go out they take a picture of the waterline if they're lucky enough they'll talk to the property owner and say hey how's your air conditioning working how are your doors and windows how much flooring did you lose then they go in and they enter the percent damage that they think those components did and that's just the field review then it goes back into the office where the data is then input into there and renders out a data point of percent damaged you know 50% or more you're substantially damaged less you're not substantially damaged then for that that process with Title Basin they then QC it before they release it to us which is why we've gotten official results of 22 properties when they've actually done 1400 site visits but that data the the substantial damage assessment includes that whole you know that whole circle of work from the pictures to the site visits that they're doing and then outputting that to us we've been fortunate enough to have the data that we have and what it's definitely given me is because we did our own inspections I can immediately see some areas where I don't necess necessarily agree that any of our properties we have a few maybe that had Foundation damage but I don't necessarily agree that they all get assigned 5% damage that's you know that's not reasonable that's not what occurred so we are going through and reviewing those data points um to get that that but all that's part of the substantial damage assessment process but FEMA does not to answer your question FEMA is not out there obtaining that data that Title Basin or that we collected the FEMA Personnel inspectors that are out there are doing individual property inspections for property owners to as part of the public assistance so not related to the substantial damage or repairing sort of to repair your home but it's they're taking this is how much you damage and this is what you may be entitled to receive to to compensate you if you didn't have flood insurance for for example your personal belongings or if you have to stay at a hotel or all of those programs that's a separate process than what we've been discussing thank you I just I just want to follow up real quick it all came back to me um I a I knew that you did get a little bit of assistance from the county are they able to help you actually with the permit process or was strictly on inspections so we did an interlocal with with them to help a Title Basin to get here to do the the field work they've been doing after that we're we were kind of we're on our own as communities to go in and and submit that request but they've given us a copy of like how they requested it and what they requested but we've put those into web EOC as the process for that and we actually spoke with uh fdm on Monday or Tuesday Holden and I did about the plan reviewers and the CFM that we've requested so that's that process so it's it's a little similar but the county helped with this the filled inspections and then gave us guidance on requesting the other support that we needed okay so that that could help could be on the way to help with the per process and I've made it very clear that we can be virtual with the plan reviewers because because we have a software system for our permitting so it would be much easier in fact I don't know where we put anybody if they showed up so so yeah so and I've made it virtual which she said is is a lot easier makes it a lot easier to find people that's perfect and I don't want to beat this to death but if a homeowner decides they just not going to wait they're handy they're going to just you know it's it's my property I'm going to do it um what's what risk are they taking what is the what is the process what is not out of the city's hands what is going to come down on the city from FEMA say an XYZ property doesn't have the permits We Know by the maps that they had to have three-foot of damage order damage inside that property even though you don't have a a demo permit you don't have pictures you were not invited in all the other homeowners were there we know the damage is there what is that risk I want everyone to know there is a risk and what does that look like and does it look like it's short is it a short-term risk or is it a three-year risk they're going to come back three years later and and they have the risk they may have to tear their house down I don't know um I don't know if you could just share quickly what kind of risk they're taking it's a it's a huge risk so if you're a property that let's say the best scenario you're not substantially damaged my tool says it but you've already gone and done your repairs we are going to still need you to pull an after the fact permit we will then have to request that you hire a licensed architect or engineer to go in and substantiate that all the work you did is in accordance with the Florida building code if you cannot do that then and we can't get you to pull a permit out then the expectation is we will put you in code enforcement and we will have to go after the property to the full extent that we legally can and that is going to be the expectation for female when they show up is that whether the property was substantially damaged or not if they did not pull a permit then they will expect expect us to be pursuing them to the fullest extent that we can per our code per Florida law and that's what they're going to look for and in some cases they have came in and basically said there is no way this property was not substantially damaged we expect the city to the city to sue the property owner in expectation of them to tear their home down and I know as painful as it is to be in the situation we're in especially with the holidays makes it just even more frustrating for people if if you if we can work together and put the city and our permit and our building official if we can be the Frontline defense for that and get you your permit and then FEMA wants to come in and say we disagree with Frankie Marcy's decision that's a whole another ballpark but we really want that we want I want to be able to successfully say that all of our residents did you know we have 17 00 permits for these properties and we really knocked it out of the park with that but if we have a property that doesn't then we will have to there will there will be legal consequences for that maybe Tom can speak better to that but it will be to the full extent that we can within our rights pursue and the other part of that too is we've expended a significant amount of time and money in this recovery effort from debris to staff time you know we're working six and seven days a week it's it's a lot we risk not getting reimbursed as a city for the output of money if they feel like we did not follow the rules so we become vulnerable in a couple of different capacities and that's really our biggest thing is we don't want that exposure we really don't so we're trying to walk that line of getting getting people back in their homes but you know Towing that line thank you Robin I have a question um to touch on the question about the permitting because we only have one building official in Madar Beach and if the state doesn't come through the county with additional building officials are we in a position that we could contract with is it safebuilt to bring in additional building inspectors to help us so that we're not backlogged and be Holden to just one person to sign off on those permits so I think that's an option for us to keep in the back of our minds that we can bring in additional help if we need to and if it doesn't come from the state when we need it or from the county correct and we can be proactive too with our continuing Engineering Services contract and see what availability there is for any of the positions that we need um especially now that we're in a better defined position of of workflow flow and data in data out kind of situation right thank you very much do we have any public comment Bob bow um uh 13301 Golf Lane um first of all I'd like to thank the staff for the ungodly amount of hours they've had to put in and I appreciate their patience I've been down here quite a few times um and them explaining things probably about 1,400 times um so first I wanted to you know recognize the staff for that um I have one that was under the 50% so I was in that batch um I'm assuming I may have one or two or a couple more that might be over or whatever um so that said um you know Mary you're talking and you had some really great ideas about some samples and stuff that was in my notes here um you know if you could or if you guys think about maybe putting like you were saying some videos samples on how to fill out substantial damage packet for the lay person um one thing you might want to note for people I I I don't know how strictly or how this is even enforced but I'm aware there's a rule about if a homeowner holds a permit versus a GC they can't sell within one year yeah so what what Bob's referring to and I'll just speak to it um there this is a Florida statute that basically says if you pull a homeowner permit and you repair your home and do work to it you cannot sell that property within one year seller or lease the property within that year um license contractor can do the work that's fine but if it's a builder if it's an owner Builder type permit there are statutes regarding that and we do have that disclosure statement in the package that we're preparing today so that will be shared with them along with the Florida statute that it is adhering to so that is one thing that we definitely want to make sure homeowners are aware of but Marcy could you clarify you're referring to properties that are owned by a corporation or or individuals yes so let's say if Bob wants to do all the work on his home he pulled the permit he's doing all the work and then he sells it he finishes it up and then puts it up for sale that is a violation of the Florida statute so um you know so again th those samples and maybe some sort of sample there would be helpful um really written for the lay person um because even my contractor that is doing the stuff they've had some questions and you know in speaking with Joe and such is like okay you want it tweak this way so the forms just in a blank format leave things for interpretation and instead of you guys having to do it twice or kicking it back you know just just some thoughts um also maybe something and I'm sure you guys are thinking about this of you know because you guys are communicating about the private appraisals but anything else that you know helpful ways to you know get under that 50% I know Jeff beggins has done some great webinars um I know you guys can't endorse the city can't endorse anybody or anything along those lines but maybe there are some you know links that could be distributed say here's other areas that are not endorsed but you know just might be helpful for people um you know being that I do have one that's under and you're you're seeking some feedback and I probably have at least one that's over maybe two um if you are looking for somebody I'd be more than happy to give you some hopefully fair and balanced feedback if you want to reach out and I I'd review some of the materials it's up to you um one of the other things I think if you couple something that was being done by um with the trash stuff if we had a dashboard because I don't know that everybody really understands how much you guys have done so you took in it maybe be on the website in real time you've taken in 7 120 demo permits 460 are done same with the remodels just sometimes people don't understand what has been accomplished they're just looking you know things from their perspective and I guess just the last thing is you know obviously self-serving but any way to get those remodel permits uh moving and I know that's going to be a big thing you guys are doing but uh you that that's the biggest thing but again thank you for the staff I spoke with and you know the guys a few times I really appreciate it thank you thank you do we have any additional public comment with no more public comment I would just like to say that um permitting and planning planning Marcy and all of the staff in the city has just worked tirelessly since the hurricane and then the second hurricane and it I mean it's incredible we're very very fortunate to have the staff that we have and to have someone sitting in the seat to lead us through the FEMA regulations that's is committed and has the best interest of every resident in the in the community in mind um but to Circle back around on the permitting because that's been brought up several times I know we talked today about a permit package that you're putting together that will be much more simplified for filling out and getting your data in correctly so that they won't be kicked back I just wanted to say that out loud for everyone because I think that's a big deal um in making it simple for people to submit permits and to kind of help the resident along the way and I also think that the two days a week that we still have open permitting is a is a fantastic time for anyone who doesn't understand or has a question or needs some assistance to come and take advantage of it because the reason we went from 5 days to 2 days was they weren't they just weren't that busy there weren't as many people coming in we kind of got over that demo permit hurdle and that may come back again but right now we you do have the two PE two days a week to come in and talk to someone and one of the things we're doing too is we're working with um Barb and Sam who are the front line for intaking the permits we're getting them up the speed on how to kind of quick assess an appraisal when it comes through if it meets the criteria or not so you're not going to wait with not enough data until one of the plan reviewers or the building official gets to it we're trying to catch that righted intake so they can kick it right back so we are working to any anything we can catch early on during that process we're working on thank you do you have any additional comments okay then we can move on to ordinance 2024-25 of substantial Improvement will you read this Mr attorney TR sure I'd be happy to this is ordinance 20242 and ordinance of the city of Mader Beach Florida revising section 9433 of Division 9 general of chapter 94 flood plane management to delete the requirement to evaluate previously issued building permits amening the definitions of substantial damage and substantial Improvement in section 94-93 of Division 9 general of chapter 94 of flood plane management of the code of ordinances to delete the repetitive flood damage provision and the one-year look back requirement revising section 14- 39 of Article 2 technical codes and standards of chapter 14 building and building regulations of the code of ordinances delete sub paragraph D regarding the definitions of substantial damage and substantial Improvement in the Florida building code providing for conflict codification cability and providing for an effective date that was ordinance 2024 -21 by title only so mayor or Marcy if you want okay so um this was really um very important initiative um by the commission to alleviate what this does is if you are a homeowner and within the last year prior to the storm coming you pulled a permit to remodel or to put on a new roof or new windows that valuation is not going to be calculated into what you're having to do to repair your home from storm damage so it's not going to be cumulative it it takes that away um this was the quickest and cleanest way to do to do this part of it we will have additional flood provision ordinances that we'll be working on um because we we still need to we still needed to do some stuff with release of the new Florida building code this year but right now this just specifically alleviates that such that when we're reviewing a permit we are just looking at the sum total of the cost to get the homeowner back into their home Commissioners I think this is fantastic um homeowners should not be penalized because they improved their home prior to a storm I mean it's as simple as that so I couldn't agree more um there are when this when this storm came I had really not thought a lot about look back but we actually have some sister cities who have fiveyear look backs and we have some that don't have any some that have one I think there might be one that has two or six months or something but um this was this this will be wonderful for the resident who maybe put a roof on 3 months ago and now they need to spend $60,000 repairing their home but they would have had the $188,000 taken off the 60 to be able to and they wouldn't be able to so it's a it's a wonderful I support it wholeheartedly and we ran the numbers it this approximately helps roughly like 500 properties so it's it's pretty it's pretty big um I think the next big question always is what about our CRS because it's only a one-year look back it's not going to be a lot of points and we will become a class six next October and we're in that class six range by at least 200 points so even if we were to get a ding for it it would not impact our class rating even if it would impact the class rating and it went down 5% you you've got a 500 homes that it's going to make the difference whether they can renovate or I mean repair or tear down it's not it's a no-brainer thank you I also agree with revising the definition of sub substantial Improvement the ordinance 202 24-21 I think it's going to be uh great for our residents also and it's not really going to have a big impact on the flood discount work correct it's it is my belief yeah that that we would we still get our class six discount so you're you're not going to we shouldn't see any any reduction in that um thank you I also concur with the rest of the commission do we have any public comment with no public comment we'll move on to the madir beach Master Plan update mayor and commission we have our representatives from our consultant Kim Le horn here to give a presentation great thanks everyone um thank you for having us here today my name is Hannah Schaefer I'm a urban planner at kimley horn I'm the project manager for the new master plan and I'll let Nicole introduce herself and I'm Nicole gasso I'm also an urban planner with kimley horn I think before we get started we just like to say on behalf of myself Nicole and our project team um Madar beach has been in our thoughts and in our hearts over the last two months and everything that you all are doing and continuing to go through is truly incredible and we're really happy to be here and to continue forward with the new master plan and support you in any way that we can and I think an Drew are you controlling the slides y right so the presentation we have tonight we're going to give you an update of where we are in the schedule of the new master plan then we're going to go through what we've heard so far through our first phase of community engagement and then we'll talk about the next steps and what you can anticipate happen NE happening next in the schedule and maybe how some of those time frames have changed given everything that has happened and then we do have some time for us to have a discussion if you have any any questions for us or any thoughts on how we continue with the project itself go to the next slides next slide please so looking at the total project schedule we're actually not too far off from our original schedule so we did wrap up our first phase of Engagement as well as existing conditions and Analysis and we are at this stage where we're beginning to develop the overall goals and vision which we've been working with City staff already on and then we're ready to continue with our next phase of Engagement where we'll start to draft these recommendations and strategies to achieve these goals so that's where we're at in the project and this is actually a really good place to be considering everything that has happened we understand that you know priorities in existing conditions have changed drastically in the last couple months so we are at a stage in this process where we can pivot and we can look at different strategies and different priorities based on what we hear from you all and from the community as well next slide please and just a reminder for any new faces around here just a refresher in general the master plan will replace the um previous 2002 master plan that was never adopted and it's really providing overall goals and vision for the city 5 10 20 years down the road so you know I think as we we all know that 5-year Vision may have changed but I think a lot of the things we have heard from the community um will remain the same for the next 10 20 30 years next slide and with the master plan we have identified these six Focus areas where we'll identify a vision for these Focus areas and then specific recommendations and strategies that will go into these Focus areas and some of them do overlap with each other too so you'll see um when Nicole gives her presentation on what we've heard from the community some of these overall themes and key takeaways that we've heard so far and with that I'll turn over to Nicole good afternoon everybody um so I think many of you are probably aware of the engagement efforts that we've had thus far because I think I've seen everybody out at at least one of the events that we've held um so thank you all for your participation and also for doing such a wonderful job on getting the word out to your constituents in the community um we received I think over 70 um survey responses you know just within a few months and we attended some pop-up events Final Friday um the trash Pirates Beach cleanup so um we we feel that we've captured um a pretty good amount of feedback for this stage um of the initial visioning and um goals that the community has for the city so um I went over some of the events we've had we also still have our interactive online map up and that will continue throughout the project so please continue to um push that to you know residents to you know put whatever challenges they might be facing now um you know they can even go back and update their comments from before add new ones um to you know reflect current challenges next slide please so um from some of those early engagement events what we heard um for what the community's vision is for madira Beach we heard lots of you know continue to be good stewards of the beach itself conserve natural resources um we did hear a lot about wanting more um familyfriendly events which I think you all already do a great job of but um people love it so much they want even more uh you know obviously protecting the beaches making Gulf Boulevard more walkable more safe um Partnerships with you know hotels and everything to kind of message what proper um I guess um like using the rfbs how they should be um talking to their guests who come and stay and aren't maybe as familiar with midir Beach how they can be safe um and also protect the safety of residents where year round um you can go to the next slide so um as Hannah mentioned we have our six topic areas and again this is all preh hurricane feedback so we totally understand and that um some of this might have changed um but we're just reporting what we heard in that first phase so for parks recreation and public spaces um obviously the beaches come up that's one of your most beautiful assets that you have here at the city um but also you know we did hear a good amount about public infrastructure and facilities and really leveraging your existing assets you all have a good amount of parks and recreational space and what we really heard is just thinking about how to activate those spaces and make them even more um inviting and meeting the needs of the community for beautification and placemaking um Lots about Landscaping obviously salt tolerant drought resistant um low maintenance type of plantings and um also really continuing to capture that fishing Village small Beach Town character and feel that you all have here next slide please sustainability and resiliency um this first bullet point feels very obvious now in light of everything that's happened is continue to um you know address flooding and and mitigate those types of issues um increase Beach resiliency and natural barriers and then also um you know continue to evaluate the city's infrastructure and stay on top of improvements um replacing or repairing structures when they're at the end of their useful life so they can be more resilient um when natural disaster happens for Trans transportation and Mobility um we heard a lot about just wanting to increase the walkability and bikeability um of the city overall O A lot of people felt that they have everything that they want and need pretty close by but sometimes they feel like it's not as safe or comfortable to walk or bike and they don't always want to have to get in their car and and drive if it's just to go down the road um and then yeah also thinking about some microtransit options so in addition to the Jolly Trolley or PSTA service um something like the freebie or ride share other types of microtransit that can help move people around um between key destinations in the city and other beaches along our Coast next slide please um and then our last two topic areas Economic and Business Development what we heard is that everybody really loves this the small business community that we have here and they want to continue to see the small businesses be supported um and also an effort to get them involved and really get them on board with some of the events that the city puts on and you know in doing that working with them to see how Partnerships can form to program you know familyfriendly events and they'll have that you know mutually beneficial relationship where people get to go out and do fun things and then also the small business community and local economy is supported in doing that and then with new development and Redevelopment um I know that this is something you all have probably continuously heard but consistently enforcing you know short-term rentals continuing to stay on top of that um also ensuring that with any new development comes in um that there's adequate infrastructure but also potentially some kind of community benefit or green space or public amenity that um comes in with that new development especially if they're being um you know given something that uh they might not have had in the past like they're being incentivized to um you know build in a more resilient way let's say that's not just minimum requirements and then finally encouraging quality design and development we did hear a lot about um wanting to try to have some kind of consistent architectural character along Gulf Boulevard um you know we can definitely talk about some of um the challenges that might be associated with doing that but we did just want to mention um that that's something we heard a lot in the survey and next slide Andrew give it to Hannah for Next Step yeah thanks Nicole yeah so what's next and we'd love to hear you know your feedback especially um as we get to the second phase of our engagement um we're looking to do another Community Workshop so if you all feel you know there's an appropriate time to do that obviously there's a lot of other things that are going on that are more time sensitive and probably more important so we would like to hear when you think that would be a good time to do that originally we were going to have it in November but I think you know December January would probably be more appropriate for that and then we'll also have a second survey available which will identify some draft recommendations and roll out the um the goals for the different Focus areas so we can get people's feedback on that and also understand what the key priorities are for some of these um focus areas as well and then we'll continue to do our popup events so if you guys feel like there's an event that we should be attending where you think we can get really good feedback and turnout um we'd be happy to receive that information so we can attend that as well especially with the holidays there might be a lot of activities um happening soon and we would like to have some more focused stakeholder engagement meetings um looking at a meeting with some of the more Regional agencies like PSTA or forward panelist to ensure that the recommendations we're bringing here um aligned with their goals and also some opportunities for Partnerships there as well um and then the local businesses we would like to have a separate stakeholder meeting with them to understand their challenges and some of the opportunities that we can leverage with the master plan as well yeah I do just want we did have a meeting set up to attend a chamber meeting and talk to the local business Community but I think it actually fell on the week that Helen um hit so we haven't been able to reschedule that yet but as Hannah mentioned there's obviously more pressing matters and priorities right now so um we do hope to eventually get to talk to the local business Community soon yeah and that's um our presentation we do kind of have some teaser questions for you um if you have any um feedback for us or any questions for us we'll be happy to answer them commission um personally I love the popup events that you're going to those um some people can just talk to you one-onone on and and you know they're very comfortable so please continue to uh look at our calendar and and stay stay in involved with that um same way with the businesses as they're coming back online if you can be in the in the area and just pop in and see how they're doing and um those kind of conversations are in my opinion better than some of the meetings that you know formal meetings um as far as uh putting a a meeting together I I really would suggest maybe January after the holidays um before then I think the community is just too much in turmoil right now a lot of people aren't even in their homes let alone wanting to attend a public meeting thinking about where where things are going to go in 20 years from now so but um I appreciate that um yeah so you you you feel like you're getting some some good feedback and you're getting a direction on um what the community yes absolutely I know Cole mentioned it and I think that's why we were a little bit ahead of in in the process before the hurricane sits because we received such high quality feedback and engagement that it helped us push the plan forward and be able to identify some of the key Focus areas and initial recommendations too so we've been very very happy with the feedback we've received great great um anyone else I didn't know didn't know if you wanted to go over your discussion questions answers at the at the meeting here is there something that you'd like us to send you some feedback sure if you'd like to mle these over and send us some feedback or if there is a question up here um that you would like to discuss we're happy to have that conversation but these were just some items that were top of mind for us that we would like to hear from you all especially given you know how everything has changed over the last couple months so um definitely welcome to any feedback or um feedback later if you need time to think about right well just just personally you know um as far as the master plan is concerned what's what's successful in my mind is more it's more in the community in the um activity areas and up and down Golf Boulevard you know so so much as of mandir beach is I'd say 60% 70% of M Beach is off the main drag and that's not going to change much unless you had some I ideas I know we had talked about uh at one point on the on the pocket Parks I don't know um if you they're not really pocket Park Street ends I guess they're called um that sort of thing um but I think that's been addressed separately um don't know if that's part of your plan or not but um I don't know just curious to see what kind of feedback you're getting and then you can present and we can hash out and talk talk about as a community yeah yeah and I think our next um Community Workshop we do want to focus on you know what we've heard some of these draft recommendations and really gauge if you know we're getting the vision right and that it is you know Community it's brought from the community to us and that we're interpreting everything the right way so the main thing for me is just the look and feel of John's Pass Village and making sure that that remains what it's was designed to be you know that fishing Village feel um we don't want it to be modern we don't want you know there needs to be some restrictions on how that's um the exterior of those buildings look um and um I know I don't know if you've been involved with some of the discussions whether we put a a parking deck there along with um a general um event area where the uh at grade parking is there in the Triangle um so that personally that's that would be that would be a big deal in my mind because we we we need to I think the the attraction of the seafood festival or if we had a uh an event space there that um it would H maybe it's not the seafood festival but it's the seafood festivals throughout the year that we can do maybe quarter or something that really keeps uh the activities um Mader Beach on the map I'll just say I do think the the parking um structure is a good point as with any planning project we heard a lot about parking challenges from the community and um having you know maybe some more centralized locations where you can just park once and then be able to get out and walk around and access many of the key destinations um and obviously of those microtransit options could help with that as well so um we are looking at at that for the new development and Redevelopment topic area thinking about how um that can be worked out or addressed um through this planning uper at least in a first phase even if it means recommending you know a formal parking study be done later on um to develop a more like Citywide parking strategy um those are the types of recommendations we're looking at um you know because the master plan can um only accomplish so much but we just want to make sure that at the end of it we have implementable realistic reasonable recommendations that you all you know kind of have a list and you can decide based on community feedback what you're hearing from your constituents what you prioritize and try to move into the budget in future years great thank you I would just say that uh I noticed that the final Friday you had a lot of community involvement and that was really nice to see you know those popup events and getting the community involved is uh really a great thing for all of us so thank you yeah yeah I will add it at especially um final Friday there were a lot of visitors and tourists who engaged with us and a lot of them come back every year which I thought was really interesting so you know this is a tradition for them and they there's a lot of items that they wanted to see stay the same and also you know some improvements as well so um that was really exciting to hear nice yeah we love those events and having the opportunity to interact with kids and the youth as well it's not you know you usually don't get kids out at a more formal or traditional Community Workshop so I love the popup events because you get to hear what their vision is for the future and what their priorities are um and when you ask them I mean they have lots of really good ideas they care a lot about the turtles and the beaches and they really want um to keep those protected so um yeah so we really enjoy going to those events yeah thank thank you as you know we would have to deal with our wonderful partner do so uh and we know do rules don't necessarily mesh in with the vision that we might have for this town um do you have any um any any plan in mind to possibly vacating certain rways um that's one question question and then how do we deal with them of course we have to go through their process with you know the microtransit and bike uh paths and basically pedestrians walking yeah I can answer that um and fdot would be another agency we'd want to coordinate with on any recommendations that come out of this plan especially for you know two of the major roadways in this city um there's no plans to vacate but f um has been very um open to changes to Golf Boulevard especially you know to the cities of the South we've worked with them on developing concepts for Gulf Boulevard and they're really focused on safety as well so if we can tie these improvements or recommendations to how they will improve safety that'll help enact change as well and I think what we've heard from the community so far and the ideas that have come about I think all align with what's possible Within fdot's vision for the corridor and what they allow so it will just be a continued partnership and conversation with them throughout the process this is my own personal opinion not not the board obviously but I would mind if we vacated Tom Stewart Causeway less the bridge the bridge can still maintain be maintained by do okay but I would love to vacate Tom Stewart Causeway from doomi road all the way to Golf Boulevard so we can have a better control with accessibility with yeah you mean yeah I think you mean commissioner that the that those roadways be the become the responsibility of the city rather than the state yes so because I think vacate means you give it to someone else but you're saying that the state gives it to the city for both the Tom Stewart Causeway 150 and possibly G Boulevard yes yeah absolutely and not that could be a strategy as well as if you know it was the city's wish to take ownership of Gulf Boulevard or tomster or Causeway um that would be you know a discussion between you all and what that would look like and also with fdot and you know what any kind of implications that could have because it is the evacuation route obviously so um yeah it's something we can look into so so I've I've for many many years I've envisioned a a bike path from archa Park all the way to war Veterans Memorial Park I think that would be an awesome awesome asset to this town partnering with obviously Dot and also city of St Pete because uh Tyrone is owned by the City St Pete uh so if we can accomplish that I think we can not only bring um a a lot of functions to this town as far as like uh breast cancer walkable you know like 5K events like those types of yes and also having benches along the way and bike racks and you know things of that nature that's something I've been sort of thinking about for many years yeah that would be great I would ride my bike on on that bike pass yeah so do we have any public comment we have no public comment so I'll finish with my comment which is um and Megan had brought this up be a great time to build a bike path on the beach right now while we're in the middle of a rebuild just as a conversation similar to what Treasure Island has you know how when you get on there and you've got this beautiful wide um sidewalk that goes down the beach and you're able to that would be fun yeah and I think that's where you know obviously this has been you know such a tragedy but there is an opportunity where you know something like that probably would have been like 10 years down the road but maybe it could be shorter term and more like a fiveyear um shorter implementable project given the situations y it's funny you should bring that up my wife and I were just talking about that see aik sometimes AB all those walks on the beach are paying off aren't they just abely the accessibility and Moby mat like more people wanting to see more of that throughout you know not just for bikes but wheelchair access and stroller access and wagons and all of that so for someone who doesn't need a Moby mat um I have been down at the beach and watched when individuals who need that to be able to access the beach and it's really pretty incredible I mean it's an extremely useful tool for someone who needs it um I think we need more of those but if you if you haven't had an opportunity to to walk the path at St Pete Beach um I encourage it you know with the they have the pl you know the benches there and um I think it's nice yeah and I think in Treasure Island that's where they do all the the sand castle building and stuff too so it almost turns into another place where you can have events or some sort of public art or it's very activates yeah it's very cool if nothing further thank you you time so the next item on our agenda is the madira beach proportionate share development fee and that's mayor and commissioner I think a discussion on the impact fees as I think you are aware we currently Levy uh fees for commercial and residential um improvements uh there's some data in the packet uh regarding a little bit of the process um however um these were created via ordinance um if there's any obviously any desire pror to change there would need to be in the form of an ordinance similar to other changes but we have been collecting I think we've discussed this in the past and the majority of our collections to date have been from residential um projects versus commercial so to change this Robin um it would take one year or longer because it would require a compr a comprehensive plan Amendment correct yes it's not just an it's not just a ordinance no we we would actually need a comprehensive plan Amendment because it's in it I that's why I attached the comprehensive plan directly to the agenda packet just as a a reminder that that we had to do all the I mean it was a long process to adopt it so I mean and changing it or like would be a long process because we'd have to do the data analysis prove why we need to change it and and then the state and County would have to review it and it it'd be a lengthy process it's not like with the other one where we were able to do two ordinances we had uh I guess consultant of the state review that um one and that was done very but this is a lengthy process so that that's why I wrote that in the memo and include or comp plan to show how how it's referenced in there and and how how we'd have to change that or so I'd like to start the discussion if no one Minds um we've talked about this a lot of times and the reason I'd like to start it is because everyone up here knows that I am not in favor of doing away with the um impact fees on on the residential and or on the commercial either one but the reason is um impact fees can be used throughout the city and building permit fees can only be used by the building department so later in this package we are going to talk about reducing our building permit fees from 2% to 1% so the building department will not be as flush with cash as what they've been based off permit fees so to me to me this is a great compromise for those of us up here who wanted to do away with the impact fees the impact fees will stay and the impact fees can be used throughout the city on different things Recreation Mobility when we if we take that away the only fee the city's bringing in for a build is only allowed to be used in the building department the and that is my reason for being in favor of the impact fees is because it is a fee that the city is collecting that we can use very diversely throughout our community we can use it on our children we can use it on Recreation we can use it on the culture of the community and again building permit fees can only be used on the building department period so commission are you talking about um reducing the building fee also this that's later in today's meeting yes this particular that's I just wanted to bring it up because to me they kind of go together when you're thinking about um reducing or doing away with one for one thing this would take a over a year for us to be able to do away with and a lot of money because it would take more studies um and impact fees only affect the few building fees affect the many and impact fees you're only paying an impact fee if you're increasing the square footage of your home right so if you have a 2,000t house and you build it up you're not paying any impact fees you're only paying impact fees on the increased air conditioned or heated square footage all right where later on when we discuss the reduction of the permit fees from 2% to 1% that affects everyone that's a savings for anyone who's getting a hot water heater or an air conditioner or they're adding doing an addition anything at all so I just wanted to say that because they're not directly together but they are in my mind tied together okay and and also the compromise was to uh I don't know it was a compromise they came together organically uh we've been talking about the impact fees well before the storm yeah and the reduction of the permit fees came post storm that discussion came up post storm right so they they're ending up tonight on our workshop on the same agenda so they complement one another for discussion okay wouldn't we have to pay the impact fees to the county and then get distributed read and I I have I have in other words let me just back up typically penos County does not charge any impact fees for existing dwelling units for any Improvement it doesn't matter how big or how small so that's that's their system as far as impact fees but if we we are charging impact fees for square footage I guess I'm I'm just thinking typically impact fees go to the county and then they come back to the city but so these impact fees are just paid to the city directly and it goes into our budget and we just spend it the way we want to no it has to be it's it's still dictated where it can be spent it just has a much broader opportunity to be spent on the residents where building fees are only spent on the building department yes I'm with you on that right yes absolutely but just uh wanted to make sure that we were not donating a portion of that to penel County no so there's there's separate uh penel County impact fee I included their their ordinance attached to it and should be see which page is starts at it starts at a page of 41 is the County's fee and I think they do that is it like per unit yeah looks like just find it multifam and condo they do it uh by dwelling unit so they're building 8 unit Condo building you're paying per unit that's separate from from our uh impact fee that we that we did in our comp plan and adopted in Our Land Development regulations a couple years ago Andrew you're referencing chapter 150 of the county code yes sir which is essentially a transportation impact fee yes and again you just pay for dwelling units when it comes to penel County but we have our own separate ordinances and we honor that if I might um it's no it's no secret I'm totally against those impact fees um as the city manager had mentioned um historically uh the Lion Share 90% of the funds from the impact fee has comeing come from residential um both Mayor Brooks and I been involved with us for many years um it's my understanding that the whole idea of having of implementing an impact fee and why we we went through the whole process years ago to to put this together um was so that when a new condo was built when a new hotel was built that we would recover the cost of the services that that structure brought to town brought brought to the town brought to the city it's a one it's a one-time fee even though that structure will be here for 50 60 who knows 70 years and always have that impact to the city um to the mayor's Point funding these services that these impact fees would pay for would be a burden on the few it would not be a burden on the entire city so with hurricane alen there's going to be quite a quite a few that are going to have to rebuild and when they rebuild they're going to go to FEMA standards and when they go to FEMA standards I guarantee you they're going to be larger than what the home was the single family home was so again it's going to be on the few that are not only impacted by the storm and have to rebuild but this is just one one more cost associated with that rebuild not alone let alone the property taxes that are going to be increased and on and on now a lot of those rebuilds are going to be from people that are going to buy the properties and they're going to be new neighbors because they came in from out of town because the people couldn't afford to do do both uh rebuild and pay those property taxes in my opinion impact fees we should just do away with them and find another source of revenue from um the commercial properties and when I when I say commercial properties I'm talking about um you know the the hotels and the condo those and if there was a some sort of fee for again for I I don't know what that that you can't have a bed tax but there's in discussions with the city manager there are certain fees that some of the other cities on the barrier islands have implemented that's more of an ongoing um Revenue stream from the bigger properties that create more of that impact that create more of the need for fire and and police and the Arts and um everything that was broke is broken down into this impact fee the impact fee failed in my opinion it was it was developed to recover the cost of the impact of and at the time it was brought to the board's attention it was when they were building the the new condos on Tom Stewart Causeway um it was the time it was when they were talking about the the beach maker um had been approved the town was was upset and they were and rightfully so these big big buildings and lots of these new new um increased population are going to be on our beaches and require more services and the residents are going to be tied with that cost um so then we implemented the the impact fees well we're not we're not getting any impact fees from any of those properties maybe one one day the hotel uh down near the um the bridge or when a hotel or whatever is developed down in John's Pass Village but this is this is on the backs of the residents and um I'm opposed to it there has to be another source of Revenue um I don't think a resident should be paying impact fees for rebuilding they're not creating any more impact to this city they shouldn't be burdened with an additional cost I mean if they build in the same footprint and they and they just do a two-story house so ground floor is garage Second Story is livable space I mean they wouldn't be it's not additional heated or and and aired square footage it just the thing is if they decided to do a three-story house they'd be paying on the extra the third story um so we still dis we designed at the discount because we didn't want to negatively impact homeowners that want to build a new house but a larger house does have slightly more impact so but we do discount from the pre square footage I understand that but I don't why why should we pressure people to restrict the size of their home I don't think it's it's any more impact because they want B bigger bedrooms because the bedrooms they have now in a 1500 square feet foot home are 12 by 12 and maybe they want bedrooms that are 16 by 17 or whatever they maybe they want uh two sinks in their in their in their bathrooms with a with a shower um that that's bigger than the smaller homes that were originally constructed it's still one bath and still one bedroom um you're going to have maybe they want air conditioned stairs on the way up maybe they want to actually get their laundry out of their garage there's tons of reasons why that house is going to be bigger and you maybe they want an island Island in in their kitchen they're spending $400 a square foot for to build a home or $350 or whatever it is they're going to want they're going to want something they they're as much as they can afford but it's still a single family home I just I don't I don't I don't agree that the city should have their hand out because they want a nicer home I just don't age agree I I I would love to discuss just red redefining impact more precisely if it's a real impact or if it's just a a process I mean it's something that just happens automatically as commissioner Kerr says if you're raising up and you want to enlarge it's still a single family dwelling but if you're building uh a new condominium that's a definite impact so I feel like I know that we can't say no impact fees for residents but impact fees for commercial I know we can't do that but we could redefine impact and make it a little bit more precise I I would be in favor of something like that I I agree but I I want to state that that's what we were told when we were in the Planning Commission and we were putting this all together that we cannot separate commercial and Retail it had I mean and res presidential it had to be the same I asked that question five or six times and I was always told the same and it wasn't until after it was passed that Jerry Murphy who put this together said well if we would have formatted it a little different we could have done it that way so he's admitted that he that he was in error when he's when he made that statement when we were going through it it that process years ago so I think that would that would be worth discussing then to make that uh that more precise definition and make it uh not such a burden on residents who will have to build but and want to improve while they're at it I think if I it's still a single family that's just a onetime fee that's just a onetime fee however I also want to state that some of the other towns charge for storm water and that's a reoccurring fee every year so we have it pretty well in Madura Beach and we want to keep it that way but just want to let you know you know many cities have have picked up additional tax dollars just by charging for storm water every year that one time impact fee I don't think it's a big deal well I think it's important to remember and I've said this every time we talk about it I say it I think it's important to remember you're not taxing someone for rebuilding their home you're you're getting an impact fee for someone who is building back a larger home and a larger home has an impact on the city City whether it is the additional amount of trucks that will be on the road to bring in the um supplies that are required to build the house whether it's the concrete truck that's driving down the road that's bringing more concrete to the house there is an impact fee to a residential house going from 2,000 square ft to 4,000 square fet whether it is adding a third bathro or a fourth bath or four bathrooms when it was two I mean we did discuss this at link on the Planning Commission when this went through and then came before the board and was voted now if the commission so desires to move forward with looking into making the change um I think it would be informative to understand what that's going to cost us to do that study it's not a matter of us just voting to change it I if I recall correctly um when we discussed this in our last meeting it would require a study to be done and written for us to move forward with making the change and what would that cost the city to do that and we are looking at a year if we were all in agreement to do that it's still going to take one year so people who are building because of this flood or because of this storm that's not the person you're talking about right now they're still going to pay the impact fee because this isn't going to change I'm saying cancel it just cancel you can't just cancel it you can't you can't wave this fee now on that I'm not I'm not certain we're voting tonight to wave all fees for permitting from the storm we're going to vote on that tonight as for the impact fees obviously you don't have to charge an impact fee but if you're going to change the impact fee in any particular way it's going to require um the data and information and Report that's issued based upon basically the same criteria that was done before um I'm not sure how much the city was charged before uh for the work that was done we could probably figure that out but there would definitely be a cost for that um and even if you were to delete it from your Land Development code that requirement you would still have to do the comprehensive plan Amendment and that's the year-long process that we would have to go through and Jerry Murphy was requested to provide that uh quote to us at least six months ago must have I believe it was closer to eight or nine months ago I don't um he he did send a a a quote um but it was like right around when hurricane Helen hit and then we didn't have water commissioner meetings for a bit um I guess I should have attached that and I believe with this study it needs to be we need to hire Jerry Murphy or someone like Jerry Murphy every what five years to update it yeah also oh sorry um yeah he also did the full update to our compr all the other elements of our comprehensive plan also for that uh e do we have any public comment please if you could yeah hold on if you could come up to the podium please thank you just just talking about so it it sound like you're talking about voting to change the code but you also said you could wave the fee so could you wave the fee for those being affected because of the scor for this year and not have to change the code for further and that's seems like that would be easy that kind of covers everything but I kind of kind hurt it going around but it was like we didn't really narrow in on that exactly so anyways I just wanted to see if there was any comment on that here thank you do we have any I'd be interested to know the answer to that do we have any additional comment hi Bell 13301 golf L um yeah so kind of like David's point I kind of likeed what he was saying maybe we look at redefining things whether I know Mayor Brooks talked about maybe it's the number of bathrooms or bedrooms or something like that versus the size of them I don't know because to your point if you had let's say you had two lots there you had two two bedroom one baths and now all of a sudden you have 20 units well much bigger you know impact there than just somebody went to three bedrooms two baths on both or what have you just a discussion point I don't know what the other cities are doing around here I don't know if we have any sort of chart on what they're charging as far as impact fees I think that would be helpful to understand stand but you know to also talk about what commissioner Dy mentioned about the storm water cost because you know I I don't know what all the different fees are City to city but uh I just kind of looked that up and I was seeing on some that it's you know up to 1600 square foot is 60 bucks a year 3,200 sare foot to 90 I I'll pay 30 to 16 bucks a year versus 20,000 I don't know but I mean at least those would be some good discussion points to just figure out what is the right solution I I don't know it off top of my head but I'm sure we'll figure it out thanks hold on Mercy pulled up the um what Jerry sent around that that time uh it was a thir estimated well the task order he sent was $30,000 let's finish the public comment and then we'll Circle back to the commission Sarah Nichols 522 Johns Pass Avenue in your discussions you were talking about people choosing to build back larger homes in the case of a home that is currently single story and would need to be elevated I was speaking today with property appraiser and if you elevate your home that first story that would be garage after being elevated does count in your effective square footage so no matter what you do your effective square footage will be increased if you elevate your home and do nothing else to change the floor print so your square footage will be increased by quite a bit now I I realize that a garage square footage counts at a smaller percentage than air conditioned square footage but nonetheless you're increasing it without even trying thank you do we have any additional public comment we'll go back to the commission um Marcy the you found the quote Yeah the quote that Jerry sent was for $30,000 mayor if I could I like as I mentioned before I'd like to get the answer to uh can the impact fee be wave for any construction uh that is needed as a result of either of the storms and two uh I'd like to ask Andrew uh is if you if you I thought I understood you to say if you build up from a front story to a two story The unair conditioned space doesn't count and there would be no impact fee did I misunderstand you so oh that that is I I don't know what the property appr does for the property tax but at least for us on our for the our impact fee that's how we'd look at but I I mean the county looks at it by it looks like for single family it looks at square footage and and or per dwelling unit if it's multif family for us it's that square footage of that heated and air conditioned space like new and in the county I don't know how they do the property tax if you raise your house up okay so it's two different two different different reasons is the impact fee is a different uh formula than the total square footage for your property appraisal am I is that correct yes yeah so Tom the question that was asked is can we wave the impact fees or do we have to do something different I don't feel comfortable with waving the impact fees the whole idea of this is It's a proportionate fee and if you're waving it for just you know residences then it doesn't meet to proportionate fee analysis that was done in the beginning so I would not suggest that you do that if you're going to change the impact fee then let's go through the process of changing the comp plan and changing the Land Development code and go through this the correct process then try to and try to avoid it now and then having you know um you know be attacked by all the those others that are down the line that U have to pay the proportionate impact fee that weren't affected by either one of these storms I just think it opens the door I would not go that direction first of all I also I think value everyone's opinion up here also I think we have to understand the definition of what an impact is is it putting a sink in putting a bathroom in is it putting a dock outside your house or a swimming pool what is the wording the verbiage of of the correct of the def impact fee and second is can we wave the impact fee for the following year due to the storms that that's what that's what the attorney saying is no right I mean but I know you've come up with a compromise I did to to wave all permit fees due to storm related damage for six months and at the at the same time later in our package we're also going to talk about and vote in our next meeting not only to wave all storm related permit fees but to also reduce our permit fees indefinitely by 1% So currently when you go to the when you come to the city and you get a permit you pay $50 plus 2% of the value of the work we're going to vote to pay the $50 plus 1% of the value of the work that's a that's quite a savings across the board for the city and to talk about um suspending or or not collecting for six months uh permit fees on storm related damage that's also a big impact that's that's a big impact for the community um you know and I would say it's not a huge impact fact but I think that anybody sitting in this city who is going to rebuild can think 2% of the value of the work plus $50 for each permit that's a substantial amount of money that someone could potentially save I mean on a $250,000 remodel you're looking at paying 60 almost $6,600 in permit fees and we're going to talk later about suspending those I mean I understand the the conversation about the impact fees and we've had those and like I said earlier if the commission decides that we want to go down the road of getting the $30,000 study and then we want to spend a year revising our comprehensive plan so that we don't have impact fees that that's up to the commission I'm just one person sitting here voting um but I also know that we spent more than $30,000 putting the impact fees into the comprehensive plan and it was long and exhaustive and there was Community input and it was voted on and it was placed in there and it was voted at the time the individuals that were for it were for it because that money was a Citywide amount of dollars that could be spent and was not beholden just to one department and not able to be spent anywhere else but I might must say that the vote was taken under false pretense the the all the all the work that went into the impact fee study was mostly to determine what the actual expenses of the city were and I'm looking for the different departments but for police and for fire and for uh Recreation I don't see it in in the package here um uh all the different breakdown of what those how the impact was C calculated on page 32 it's culture and recreation Mobility fee and Public Safety fee and it is broken down into a ratio of what amount of the fees goes to which which portion goes to which area it's 32 I thought there was more than just the three Public Safety mobility and culture and recreation those are the three categories okay but I thought there was more categories than that I thought there was five or six um but regardless that's what because we we spent many many many months determining what that actual cost is we had to validate that and that was the bulk of the work besides going through and and um changing up updating the words the versus a versus you know um it was that that kind of thing so um but again it was that that vote was all under false pretense because we were told consistently that if you did it for commercial if you did it for the condos if you did it for the hotels you must do it for residential and uh Linda portal stated that and Jerry Murphy stated that and Jerry Murphy has re resend it those remarks and that's why he's given us the $30,000 quote to change it so that it's strictly commercial it's strictly new condo construction and hotel construction um so I leave it at that I've beat this horse to death my opinion I mean even if I mean a one-time impact fee is not going to cover the impact of a large structure like that regardless um that be I'd much rather see an ongoing service fee of some sort but I would I would have to lean on the city manager for ideas on that so then maybe we should bring this back for for conversation at a later date when there's some more information and um maybe can include the quote that came from Jerry and be able to vet some of this information so that we're not I mean I'm not an expert I remember doing going through it all so talk about it another day with some more inform and again as as commissioner Kerr mentioned we did have a discussion about other forms of Revenue and just so um for information purposes in fiscal 24 the city collected 267,000 in the impact fees and again I don't have the breakdown residential versus commercial but residential is the majority of that I'd say probably 80% maybe a little bit higher I think I've shared that before um but it's not a gigantic source of Revenue it's not just a th000 or $2,000 either um but there are as and I can discuss with each one of you other possible forms of Revenue into the future to supplant this some not so popular some but there there are POS possibilities other cities have different just choose to do different things but we can certainly bring this back with all the much more information okay the next item on the agenda is finance fiscal year 2024 audit engagement letter James Moore and Company great thank you so we issued an RFP for auditing Services back in 2020 selected James Moren company that was a three-year agreement with two one-year options so we exercised our first one-year option last year you all approved that engagement letter so we're going through the same process this year we've got a very positive working relationship with James Moren company this would be the the fifth and final option year of that contract uh so we're requesting your approval of the engagement letter for fiscal year 2024 the audit fee would be 47,500 a financial statement prep fee of 4,750 and then a per Pro per major program single audit fee of 3,750 which there would be a federal single audit for the fiscal year 2024 audit um as I mentioned uh we work well uh collaborate very well with James Moren company and I think highly of them and and U would recommend approval of this engagement letter Commissioners any comments I'm in favor of that sure yes support that yes yes just to this is to for the an outside auditing accounting firm to perform an audit of the city's Financial systems that we are required under State Statute and this will go back out to bid or for RFP next year in 20125 for beginning for the beginning of the fiscal year 2025 audit for next year yes typically we probably commence that process in the spring of 2025 do we have any public comment okay with no comments we will move on to the presentation of fiscal year 2024 budget versus actual analysis and fiscal year 2025 Revenue loss projections great so I wanted to provide you all with with two pieces of data one let's do a historical look back on fiscal 2024 results now that fiscal year has ended as of September 30 there's could still be some uh a few transactions some acrs as we go through the audit preparation process that the numbers that I'm providing you may change but we don't anticipate significantly so I wanted to provide you some of that historical information for 2024 and also show you a reserve analysis to say okay where were we on a funby fund basis as of September 30 2023 audited financial statements Plus the activity in 2024 revenues minus expenses so then where are we expected reserves as of the beginning of the year fiscal year 2025 and then in light of these hurricanes and perhaps the concern of uh certain city operations that have been impacted I want to just provide you kind of high level General overview of what specific general ledger accounts Revenue accounts that we feel will be impacted and are being impacted uh by the uh the two hurrian hurricanes and what that can um translate to in terms of Revenue loss so I just wanted to give that quick presentation to you all and then we'll address questions and move on to the next item so that's the the uh the agenda we'll go through fiscal year 24 historical then let's look at 2025 potential Revenue loss and then address questions of course if you have them so on the first page the budget versus actional Revenue comparison by funding Department um largely no major um significant variations I mean your your general fund especially the non-departmental uh has the The Lion Share of the revenue that's a lot of our taxes and some user fees we do see uh collecting 83% uh of budget there's two main items there uh one of which is uh for the Gul Boulevard undergrounding that's just a revenue acral we still need to make I think we spend about 710,000 on the Gulf Boulevard undergrounding project but that'll be reimbursed through the penny4 money we'll request that from penel County we just need to book that $700,000 and change receivable and revenue so that will actually increase the actual balance as we make that year and closing entry um and then we also had budgeted for a dredging project in in John's Pass Village I believe that was 1.5 million budgeted for both revenue and expense uh and uh have not incurred those costs uh maybe only 40,000 I think thus far has been recorded for fiscal year 24 so obviously our our expenses are much lower in that specific dredging project as well as revenues uh so that's the the main item that I want to highlight in this budget versus actual Revenue side and then if you look at the next page budget versus actual on the expense side at the fund and the department level we broke this down for each department the concern would be if there are any departments that are over 100% And if that was the case we did have up to 60 days after year end to put forth a budget amendment we've already done two budget amendments during fiscal year 2024 I did not see it was necessary to do a third one because we're under 100% on each department um so this is just now a presentation this is not a request for a budget amendment uh we're close on some but overall we've uh have not exceeded budget at the department level at the fund or the department level and you can see the the details here on this particular table then if I go to the next page that's your reserve analysis for each of our our major so I what I I put this Reserve analysis out there for the funds that have potential uh Revenue loss uh potential impacts so that was one two 3 four five six 7 eight eight funds total and there is a a potential projected Revenue reduction fiscal year 25 so there's a line there but let's start at the top and work our way down just so you can understand the numbers so first is the available fund balances of September 30223 fund balance is just your assets minus your liabilities uh is what's left over is your fund balance or net position kind of equity for government so to speak well those are based on audited figures right and so that's that's that Top Line uh for each of these funds it gets a little complicated some funds are on a different basis of Counting full acrel and some are modified acrel so in order to try to make it uh on a Level Playing Field for all I took those fully full acrel funds the marina fund parking fund sanitation fund and storm water fund and just took current assets minus current liabilities and that was the available fund balance that I reported in that uh in that Top Line don't want to bore you on too much details and the difference between a full acrel and modified ACR so we'll move on unless you want to inquire further on that then my actual revenues year-to date 24 actual expenses year to date 24 that's based on those previous two tables populated in in those uh in those next two rows and then that gives me my projected available Reserve so what do I have available to spend in fiscal year 2025 and then we have what we consider a potential Revenue reduction in fiscal year 2025 that's still under analysis but I gave you some very high level projections just to share with you for this meeting we'll go through that the next page um and then I took okay well what did we actually budget for in fiscal year 25 so that was our budget revenues and transfers in comparing that to our budgeted expenditures and transfers out and so then do we have any uh resulting deficit right so uh looking at all that then we have a remaining estimated fund available fund balance for fiscal year for 9:30 2025 and so you add them all up you're uh you're in a in a positive position right I'd say the one maybe concerning area might be the storm water fund at a deficit of 2.6 million but that's assuming we would have 11.79% by fund here the particular GL accounts that could that or we we feel would be impacted and this wasn't an overly scientific analysis of a percentage reduction we kind of Base that on okay this is maybe you know season seasonality so from October to December we'll see a a sharp decrease and then as there's a return to normaly in in uh in Commerce for example where we have you know um halfon sales tax and and and transactional related taxes we feel that we'll start then seeing that uptick so maybe that's a 20 25 30% reduction again I can get a little more refined on that once we have a couple months of of actual in 25 that I can compare to 24 but I just want to throw out some highlevel you know kind of a little Thumb in the air percentage reductions in that column to give you what more or less of what the feel could be on a on an actual um Revenue reduction uh compared to budget what we initially originally budgeted before we knew about the Hurricanes to what we would likely more be more likely to budget now in light of this information just to add to Andrew for example on the ADV valorum taxes we may not we're just trying to be realistic for the current fiscal year we likely will have maybe even less than this in reduction U per the pelis County property appraiser tax bills will go out later this month remember that those bills are on the assessments that already occurred January as of January 1 of 2024 the properties will be reassessed as of 2025 and likely we will have hundreds that will be significantly less um also Property Owners can apply um B if you haven't been in your property for at least 30 days then you can apply for a type of a refund so that's on their pay I don't think that has changed but we will likely see a much larger impact next year um as properties are reassessed based on damages from both storms and then just to add the second third utility the utility service taxes franchise fees or Progress Energy down to utility service tax water those are likely going to because those are based on consumption so we have 500 structures with no power obviously there's no utility bill and consequently there's no tax or franchise fee so that that's a big impact um those that do have power and and are in their structure then they are paying that but we do we're probably a third occupants it's hard to determine but just driving around at night U kind of we're probably at about a third occupancy maybe a little bit less um obviously elevated structures are still majority are occupied with the exception of a lot of the condos on Gul Boulevard on the west side but so just to give you an idea of how we kind of went through this exercise as as Andrew stated not overly scientific but looking at the reality of of what we have yep absolutely and then I think in the last couple Pages we can go through a little more depth is just the a little more breakdown of that the adorm tax potential Revenue loss and dependent upon the number of homeowners that fill out that Dr 465 so we'll get to that momentarily maybe I'll just rip through the rest of these uh funds and what's impacted but you can see in the general fund that non-departmental like as Robin mentioned adorm taxes plus user-based taxes whether it's on your electricity bill your gas bill uh your um TV internet bill for communication Services tax um and then other um and then you got Recreation obviously that's that's obvious with um cancellation of of various programs um or delays um and then if you look at the next page so on the on the Building Services and we've got the the ordinance uh uh discussion coming up next on on reducing and eliminating in some uh circumstances uh permits that's obviously going to impact Revenue um and then on the local option sales tax that's that 7 Cent sales tax revenue so that's based you know that's transactional based on uh on the level and extent of Commerce that is occurring within the city of madira Beach and then in archal we've got uh the big one there would be our our parking right so we got archal Beach parking meters um and the reduction of of uh parking related revenues due to um Lots not usable for for a time as well as then reduced demand compared to uh the prior year around this time and then the and then the marina fund um so reduction on on uh fuel transactions store transactions Etc and then parking we we discussed and then it's to Rob to Robin's point the sanitation charges storm water services that's based on your utility bills if you're not in the home maybe maybe you're still getting a bill and it's largely just based on the base fee but there's um uh well that that there's no usage related because this isn't water utility but again if you've canceled your service um then obviously we wouldn't recognize the revenue during that period so um that's what could could impact those just to add to the sanitation because we have had questions um and also for storm water but clearly properties that have not been occupied and are not generating household trash we will review those and is likely issue credits um at some point throughout the year because there are hundreds that are not having any collection they're not generating and they're not collecting so we will review those and then the last couple Pages just a little more insight into the city's potential for Revenue loss on ADV alarm taxes so justed expand on on Robin's point was the assessment was already made as of 111 2024 your assessed value does not change in this Levy cycle however uh you can submit a dr4 65 that's the application for catastrophic event tax refund and then uh and and what what's being pulled out is right out of the Property Appraiser's website that gives you information on how to submit what it all means um and then for each hurricane there's a window where if you can provide evidence yes I was displaced from my home not living here then you would be eligible for a partial refund so depending on the volume of those uh applications um the tax collector could then withhold future distributions around that spring summer time frame um and net those against the refunds that would go back to those um qualifi uh eligible property owners that submitted that that form so wanted to just provide that overview there's more analysis and to be done um as as we you know go through fiscal year 25 and can can refine some of those Revenue loss figures based on more information that comes to light and then uh I've personally have no concerns over covering our general operating expenditures our salaries our wages our benefits and our you know repair and maintenance and operating supplies and those other operating expenses what we might have to just take a harder look as it is that Capital Improvement plan delay projects resend certain projects um depending on the the overall magnitude of this Revenue loss but just want to provide this high level overview for you all at this point Commissioners I have a question um is there any opportunity to recover any of the Lost revenue from the federal government I know when we went through covid there was an opportunity to recover Revenue loss Revenue so those are those are pushed there was the American Rescue plan act which then is the state and local fiscal Recovery Act we called our arpa grant money that we received um that was back in 20 20 2020 or 2021 for this there no unless something does come about that that uh in the future but FEMA does not reimburse for Revenue law so FEMA will just reimburse uh for expenditures incurred by the city depending on you know what whatever the category is debris removal facility damage um they'll reimburse for the deductible that we have to pay for the you know for your insurer uh for any facility that's damaged so um I feel more com comfortable and confident that expenditure wise we'll have unplanned expenditures that we need to repair a ball field or a facility that we can submit that both to insurance and to FEMA and get reimbursed for those expenses but Revenue loss will not be included in that do we have any public comment with no public comment we will move on to ordinance 2024 4-22 fees and collection procedure ual FY 2025 update 1 mayor I'll go ahead and read that ordinance by title only this is ordinance 202 24-22 an ordinance of the city of mad Beach Florida adopting a revised appendix a fees and collection procedures Manual of the code of ordinances of the city of mider Florida repealing ordinance 202 24-5 providing for conflict codification severability and providing for an effective date that was ordinance 202 24-22 you would note that in the attachment the fees and collection procedures manual specifically on page 10 of 28 or 160 in your packet it reflects the change that is being proposed in the fee manual and I'll just read that paragraph three would be changed valuation fee from 2% to 1% of the total project value which includes both materials and labor and other related fees and then also that it would be 0% of the total project value for all hurricane Helen and hurricane Milton permit fees for work involving the interior Andor the exterior demolition repairs Andor new construction which includes both materials and labor and other related fees resulting from damage by both listed hurricanes for a period of 180 days from the adoption of ordinance 202 24-22 this being the today would be the first reading later on the next meeting um then the second reading is going to be on the 20th I believe yes Rob next week the 20th so it would be 180 days from the 20th of November so just just so I understand this is going to do two things one it's going to lower it from 2% to 1% and it's going to make it zero for any catastrophe related uh construction but for how long just 180 days 180 days okay I just wanted to make sure I understood thank you I wanted to ask naturally I'm in favor of that I wanted to ask one question um because our SD letters haven't really started going out yet and people don't really know where they are in the process of rebuilding can we change that verbiage so that it is 18 180 days from the issuance of the SD letter the problem with that is is that it would um every property would then be be treating treated differently so those people that are have waited uh to get their permits issued are getting the benefit of those people that rushed to get it done so I would not suggest that I would suggest if you wanted to do anything to change the 180 days to 270 or 360 or something like that that would be the same across the board for everyone applying for a permit okay and I I did no analysis of that of course this is coming from City staff so I'd rely upon the city manager as to how that's going to affect the city I don't know my only concern is that if if we get another Hiccup and the SD letters don't go out and you get someone who has a substantial damage letter and they're at say 77% they need to get their ACV appraisal so that they can bring their um value up and then they have to do all of the appeal process would we consider their appeal process that they've started the process and so they would be within you know they had already started it so they would get it and I I guess that could be more on a staff level conversation instead of you know the does when does the 180 start um for or or or if it's for 180 days if they initiate something with the planning building department within a 100 days are they then locked in if they don't officially get their permits in until 185 days because they had to go through all that appeals process not understanding what that appeals process is even going to fully look like I I would rely upon the building official to give that determination but it's my understanding the valuation fee is paid when the issuance of the building permit so if it's in the process we don't really get paid until we actually issue the permit is that correct that's correct okay and the building official is shaking his head so if you're asking it's in the process it's a the time of the issuance and I think back to uh Mr tras that you may want to look at 270 days or or a full year I mean that that would alleviate the example you just gave do we just want to select the date June 30th throw out a date well the I think we're back to similar I mean we either way but I think what we're looking at is probably longer than 180 days I would agree with that thinking a little bit more about it just the way the process has gone we've taken two steps forward and five steps back and U we're getting in that I think we're getting in that Rhythm and and every we're getting the understanding of what we're doing but we could still hit another Hiccup and be another two weeks before anyone actually gets an SD letter that's telling them they are substantially damage I don't know what are your thoughts let me just jump in one more thing it doesn't have to be number of days from the adoption of the ordinance it could be a set date okay so if you wanted to do it June 30th for example 2025 then we would never have to look back at when ordinance 2024-25 was adopted it would be in it would be in the fees manual as a set date and then everybody that sees it or the public will know it has to be issued by that particular date instead of trying to calculate something so easier and so we'd bring that back to you at the next meeting on the 20th that language if you wanted to be a date certain whatever the date is we can still vote on this in our next meeting and then the the final verbiage would be next Wednesday when we have that meeting it would that be okay or so my suggestion is that the at the regular meeting that's coming up that that we provide the actual language to the public this is how the ordinance is going to be adopted we'll fix the ordinance or the fee manual so it'll be typed out but but the motion would be that it' be changed to read until instead of for a period of 180 days from the adoption of the ordinance until whatever June 30th or whatever the date is that we'll do that at the next meeting okay later on tonight so what are your thoughts here collectively I believe excuse me um a set date would would be great you know if we can all come together uh for the residents uh to have a set date would be uh benefit to Residents I'm I'm okay with the date but I wouldn't I wouldn't mind if it was farther than June 30th maybe a year from the hurricane oh exactly September 26th yeah yeah yeah yeah I I'm perfectly fine with that I I am a huge supporter of suspending the fees for the storm related damage 100% I'm I agree do we have but I like to set date let's just set a date I agree with one year yeah do we have any public comment um would is there a way to separate a request for a building permit from just normal everyday building permit versus Storm related because this 1% is it just a storm related or is it to anybody sorry you know wanting to do something different no the the waving of the permit fees is for anything storm related storm related correct just as yeah so you'd know that based on the the well the submission that we make correct permit right when the permit is submitted it would have to identify storm hurricane Alan hurricane Milton okay because I haven't seen that on the document yet but okay name and address that makes sense well I think a good way to a good analogy on that would be that if if you owned a condo and you were on the third floor and you were doing a remodel you wouldn't be subject to free permits benefit from the 1% would be 1% of the value yes sir good evening Davis sler of 494 Crystal Drive just one little knit of clarification do you still pay the $50 for a storm related permit fee or or is that under the other related storm other other related fees really the you would still pay that but that's under the pleasure of the commission if you would like to change that as well we can change that so I thought when we discussed it um my my opinion was that we would suspend all fees that if you were if you were coming in to get a permit for anything storm related you would have zero permit fees and I think Robin when you and I discussed the Florida sech charge because it was so small you had recommended we would just the city would pay that and not collect it from the citizen we can which would make it easy coming in they're going to come in they're going to go through all the process they're going to submit for permit there's zero fee to the resident for storm related damage and I I again I go back on I think that people have been through so much already that this is the smallest of things that we can do for the community and we're in a financial position to do it and it's a small give that can be a big impact on residents the $50 goes away on paragraph one one if you have that and the express permit $50 so the express permit also goes away correct awesome I don't think we're doing any Express permits right now not currently if anybody's getting one I want to know how they got it but again it has to do with hurricane right hricane just for the hurricane related permit fees and the city will submit the search charge fee to the state out of sheer curiosity how many permits have been issued so far for we've issued well I mean hundreds for demos but for actual rebuilds none yet because we are issuing the substantial damage substantial Improvement letters and those need to be received before a permit can be issued how many homes you suppose Madera Beach have substantial damage I understand I what was mentioned earlier 4,000 homes Madera Beach if I understand no we don't have 4,000 homes well Google said that yeah no that's 4,000 total units in the city that includes all the condos so how many homes are there we had 1,700 residential structures and almost 1,400 were initially identified as having major damage from both storms so we have received the data or the the demo permits where I think was stated earlier 600 structures so so so you're talking about waving fees but how long is it going to be before any these people are going hopefully hopefully by next week there'll be the letters will go out and then permits can be received demo permits no no no rebuild permits yeah a lot of happy people that happens any further comment hi good evening uh Robert stowman 14109 West parsley um I agree with the one year out uh to on the uh waving of the permit fees can you speak up we cannot hear you yeah just a little louder sorry umman 14109 West parsley I agree with the uh one year out on the waving of the permit fees uh but this also seems to coincide with when we are going to get our determination letters because if it's going to take me at at least another 3 4 months to go through an appeal process and then file permits from then how do I know I'm still going to be covered under said you would just need to file the permit within the one year I I understand but it seems like it's going to be an elongated process at this point I just I'm just trying to make sure and cover me if we need to re I mean this can always be Revisited as well it's not I mean we can go back and go through this process that just takes two meetings and we can have a special meeting so if we need to extend it it can be extended I mean as long as I think the commission would be supportive of that is what I'm hearing so it can be Revisited and further extended awesome thank you thank you any additional comments so do you need any clarification on that from us for our next meeting no I I think I've got it and I'll I'll read it out loud when when we get to the that point and you can critique my my wording of it if it's not acceptable okay we'll move on to our next item is amendments to aaran Consulting and software agreements the mayor and commission this item is we utilize a software called The Clarion for our financial processes our essentially our general ledger um and it is an annual agreement and so it's U we recommending or presenting to you with this item to extend the agreement for an additional year we've uh as I think I've shared with a few of you the software is software there's much better software than others this meets our requirements what we do the ability to manage all of our financial uh transactions everything that we do from of course our general ledger to paying bills to again recording receivables and essentially all the money coming in and money going out for the city so we're not um we're in compliance with all the generally accepted accounting principles and what our Auditors uh review when they are here um so we're just simply uh suggesting that we continue recommending that we continue with the software at the same time uh we also have an agreement with um a Clarion for the services of our finance director Mr Andrew Laughlin and we are recommending to continue with that there is a slight um increase uh in the Consulting agreement as is listed in the um the agenda up on the screen approximately about 5 thou 5% excuse me um I know I think this is the first increase or possibly the second in the this will be the fourth year I believe that we've had this agreement um and so again recommend that we proceed with that agreement Commissioners do you have any questions staff re recommends approval um that's I have to sit here good I have I have a question sorry so I noticed that in I didn't have an issue but I'm curious in the agreement we had a standard user access fee that was $55 per user and our users range anywhere from 40 to 50 the change to give us a fixed Subs subscription fee of $3 $8,000 could be quite an increase in what we're paying depending on how many users we're using because um currently it's $55 per user when we go up if it was 40 users it would be $796 per user 45 users would be $70. 37 per user and 50 users would be $633 per user so what is generating the chain from paying per user to an annual that gives us an increase so this gives you the this gives the city the flexibility to not have to manage users and you know unlimited users and and there's potentially expansion of the use to have some um users maybe only utilize some particular components and there wouldn't be a concern okay well now we got to bring this person on and off so essentially simplifies the cost I believe there was maybe also I'd have to check if there was a small fixed fee component to just the use of our the production environment so this is a total simplification I can see your point that there is a slight fee increase um but again there's also a slight fee increase for my finance director Services as well and I think if you you know compare you know the the software what we were paying in our previous um uh Erp software to this it's it's comparable if not lower um and so the the main point was to not have to worry about user management and let users come in and out so then let me ask this question just for the public and for clarification um if we have 40 to 50 users we have and we probably have not added people as users because of the fee associated with that to keep our fees down um would it be safe to say that going under a flat fee that our departments would utilize additional employees to do the work in a Clarion instead of just one single point of contact in that department or in that um space using it they might we might all five use it instead of just me and um commissioner Kerr that's quite possible not only not only today but in the future and there's other features that clearance adding that might bring on more users we're developing a policies and procedures module that allow you know us to consolidate policies procedures from all different aspects of the city and then we could have users that would be able to uh provide that data that then we'd be able to uh to post uh online to a site that employees could access it's just one example right so not only today but in the future based on additional features that may come out that could uh spark uh additional um uh usage by city employees thank you do we have any public comment with no public comment we will move on to Public Works Park Street Antique Center lease for Public Works is simply Miss weer is coming up this is the lease that we have for our garage um to store equipment and our sanitation equipment and vehicles over at the park street address at 5000 94th Street um we use approximately the 6,000 square ft part of a building um which also houses our mechanic and the repair work that is done so this is the I Megan if you can I think Robin just covered it all this is just a renewal of that lease that we utilize over on U Bay Pines and thank God that we do have that because we are very fortunate that a lot of our equipment over there did not flood so correct we and the rent is $3,200 monthly which is I don't have a calculator on me right no I think it's just a slight in I think we were paying 3,100 you're paying an additional $100 per month yes so yeah and this really isn't entering into a new lease this is just exercising an option to renew that is that was already included in the lease that was executed last year yes so that's all we're going to be doing having the city manager send a letter letter to the landlord saying we exercise the option um and it's not going to require a new lease to be signed any comments questions I just have one question how long how many years have you been using this property since way before my time 2012 yeah over 10 years yes 2012 13 I I don't remember the exact date quite some time perfect thank you thank you any comments has there been an increase in the lease yes we increased it $100 so in the lease that we signed last year which was a renewal every year for I believe it's five years it increases $100 per month annually so do you anticipate us just keep on leasing for the next Generations to come or the plan is to build but unfortunately we just we I don't think that's a bigger conversation um on where to and what the plan is moving forward we will still have to lease property over there for the garbage trucks yeah okay thank you thank you do we have any public comment with no public comment we will move on to Recreation the Ford F250 crew crab XL purchase Mr hatch uh good evening mayor Commissioners um so this is a purchase for a budgeted vehicle or vehicle that was budgeted in the fy2 budget uh looking to purchase a F250 crew cab XL uh that we would essentially outfit with a topper and load with our equipment and supplies that we utilize for all of our special events uh Market the excuse me the madira way market that we do Final Friday seafood festival and all the other special events that we do uh the intent of this is we do have one truck that is used for a lot of our field stuff that is you know loaded unloaded constantly and uh essentially this would this would allow us to have something ready to go all the time utilize our our department parking and whoever else would need a events and road closures and all that stuff so um was budgeted we've we've put everything together and it's got all the information in there but with y'all's approval we would move forward with the purchase so it's it's it'll event it'll make your your job more efficient and more streamlined to have this extra vehicle absolutely and its budget okay yeah sounds good I have no comment any comments what's the cost of it so it is $5,490 yes which is consistent with the sheriff's uh Bradford County Sheriff's Office contract which is the state contract that's a brand new truck right yes sir yes thank you do we have any public comment with no public comment we will move on to the Jo kickoff classic proposed agreement um so this is an agreement for uh Joo kickoff classic which is a uh junior college softball tournament Collegiate solid excuse me Collegiate softball tournament uh contract reads very similar to a previous contract that we brought forward with you all uh essentially just locks down for them this next year this would be the last weekend in Jan January um and it would bring some of the top uh junior college organization softball organizations to madir beach to compete uh this is an event that 10 years previous was held in Clearwater and uh they made a organizational changes there and the way they hosted things and uh we were their first stop so we've got the support and funding through visit St P Clearwater uh we just were looking to solidify this and then this would be a contract that after work through this year we would look to renew and keep this event here in January every year so it brings junior college teams from throughout the state and out of the state but mostly um a lot of the top 25 uh junior colleges so a high level of softball for those for that group of Performing but that's what we're looking to basically lock this down with them this year and then something that we can continue and then would help build upon everything that we're trying to accomplish out there as far as increasing uh the use of the park and improving the features of the park and all that stuff so this is a big tourism stop for us uh and want to you know make sure it's something we can build upon Commissioners any comments sounds great Jay um yeah maybe this will help us um not reduce our Revenue so much do we have any public comment very much in favor this thank you public comment oh with that is the last item on the agenda it is 505 we are adjourned