##VIDEO ID:OvfLx4tJPyk## e good evening thank you all for coming I would like to call to order the Board of Commissioners budget Workshop meeting August 28th 2024 at 4M city clerk would you call the role please Mayor Brooks here vice mayor tagini here commissioner Kerr here commissioner McAn here commissioner here all are present thank you public comment public participation is encouraged if you are addressing the commission step to the podium and state your name and address for the record and the organization or group you represent please limit your comments to five minutes and do not include any topic on the agenda public comment on on agenda items will be allowed when they come up if you would like someone at the city to follow up on a public comment or question made at the meeting you may fill out a comment card with the contact information and give it to the city manager comment cards are available at the back table in the commission Chambers completing a comment card is not mandatory do we have any public comment for items that are not on the agenda having no public comment we will move on to discussion items budget Workshop number five deliverable and I will hand this over to Andrew our permit director Finance director thank you so much Madame mayor and commission good to see you all and congratulations for making it this this far through four grueling workshops and this is the last hopefully the last and the easiest whoops a little test test test test test test okay we're good here uh so this one should be pretty easy not much very few changes from what we went over from the last Workshop so I feel like we're on a good role I've addressed a lot of your questions um but we're doing this one one more time there have been a few changes so if we look at the agenda what I want to cover today we're just going to talk through those changes from the last workshops that you know what you're looking at today that ultimately what you will approve in the public hearing number one and two in September is this information and this information is largely the same as what we went over in July minor changes we'll go over what those are um also just I haven't given previous information to you all previously on Personnel benefits uh so I wanted to just give you kind of an overview and some information right out of our budget software that just shows uh Personnel benefits what they are and then we also have some version analysis that uh our software allow us to perform and see what the different uh some cost differences are if we use this percent versus this percent this amount versus that amount so I'm just presenting that to you this is all just additional information hasn't been presented previously just uh wanted to give that to you since that hasn't been uh provided to you before um and then section three and four the 2025 budget by fund and Department that's the same information that's going to be in the formal budget book that's going to be adopted so all the same uh information tables charts graphs Etc uh that you'll see in the final uh budget book to be adopted in those two public hearings as well as the 2025 personnel and capital project info and on those I I don't again just like last month I don't want to go through every single page and and and rehash all that unless of course you want to point to specific questions you might have on any of those uh fund and Department summaries or detail or happy to go through and address any questions you have then yeah last section on the agenda is just Q&A and final preparation for the September public hearings how's that sound for an agenda good I just I just have one comment mayor I I'm looking at my phone because for some reason my password's not working into my computer and I can't see uh the agenda or anything uh I I don't know if it's related to the website that problem that was going on earlier but it's not accepting so I'm looking at my phone that's closest I can get to the agenda or I can look up there too I guess oh thank you sorry about that carry on because you're trying to go into the site in the in the meetings and you're getting a uh no I can't get into my actual computer oh gotcha so this is all I need yeah there's an there's an SSL certificate that looks to be expired that we have to there's a issue there um so we'll get that fixed if you go to the Advance button and just click the advance button and override it it's something to do with the certificate I think Claire is looking into it um but it'll let you right into the okay it'll let you in I'm sorry for the delay I didn't think that advanced button okay look for that no one else would know that if you hadn't brought it up all right good stuff all right well let's proceed then so the first uh item one in the agenda and you can see the summary of changes from the previous budget Workshop let's just go through these one by one because some of these were requested from you all others of these are internal meetings that we've had with the various Department directors that have given their their respective budgets one final look and maybe have made some subtle changes here or there based on new information that's come to light so going through the list these first uh four or all Board of Commissioners Department salaries Social Security then Group insurance and workers comp so I believe this was largely driven commissioner cerry you you've uh expressed your desire to see changes around this because what we did is offer the salaries and and um benefits budgeted for all Commissioners but it's a one-of the other proposition so what I did is for the mayor plus two Commissioners I went salary no right column July 2424 Workshop it was this number now that reduces down to the new number on the on this Workshop make sense yes so those are for those those four all resulting in reductions in both salaries Social Security your tax your FICA taxes and then your Group Insurance in your workers comp workers comp is based on salaries and wages then on the adval taxes we had that July release of the taxable value from the panel's um property appraisers office so when we updated that taxable value number that updates the calculation so the 5,782 th000 is the uh the uh final budgeted number that we're we're rolling with for this upcoming year for adval arm taxes minor difference than what I initially presented to you all in the um May June July Workshop but that is the latest and greatest estimates that um are available from the Property Appraiser's office and then on these uh next ones we got the CST communication Services tax state revenue sharing half sent sales tax uh and then there's also a state revenue sharing and a 7 Cent sales uh tax that's our uh um infrastructure sir tax monies if you go on this website the EDR the office of uh economic and development research they provide their estimates of what for every municipality and county in the state of Florida what they anticipate your share of these revenues are going to be how they derive those estimates I'm not quite clear I mean some is uh you know historical Trend and then any other Market or other factors and so when we first prepared those figures early on in the process we just looked at our prior year and said okay based on prior Year's actuals I think it might be this then later in the we in the budget process we refine those numbers based on those office of EDR estimates so if you go on that website you can see the values from ader Beach so we just update updated those values to what was presented by the office of um Economic Development uh research or demographic research I believe so that's what those those changes are result from it's all still an estimate we don't know exactly what our uh various uh state taxes are going to be but I felt it was uh more accurate to to go with those estimates and that's what we did there then in Fire EMS for Capital Equipment we have a $112,000 increase so this is just a increase resulting from estimated cost of the Deputy fire chief vehicle that will be purchased um in uh fiscal year 2025 and so that's where that $112,000 increase came from through my correspondence with chief chief Bel on on his estimates then and and please stop me if you stop me at any time and if you want to delve in any of these in more detail but I'm just going to go through them all one by one and then in Recreation uh we have departmental supplies we want to increase that by $20,000 for some estimated purchases we want to make into the uh into the gym facility for uh for fitness equipment and then uh on also in Recreation on the capital side for Capital Equipment uh an additional $15,000 similar to uh fire where early estimates came in a little low at what they anticipate spending on a particular vehicle and so this is a recreation truck that uh now we're determining is going to probably be in $155,000 more than initially estimated and then special okay so the next that's the office of economic de demographic research is those next two we already talked about that and then for storm waterer uh we've got drainage and roadway Improvement account and so an additional 2.3 million here so the Public Works director and I went through essentially all of her her multi-year Capital Improvement plan from what was initially uh presented to you back in May and there's just some some it's all real timing in terms of when we expect to start projects So based on um those conversations we're pushing some projects back and then maybe others that we thought might be done uh are now more uh higher you moving more dollars into fiscal year 25 than perhaps what we initially thought would have be done in 2024 so just due to those timing changes that's where that's coming about no real new projects per se so it's the same listing of projects is just the estimated fiscal years to incur costs uh resulted in in in that Delta from the July Workshop then also in storm water Capital Equipment uh line item we have a street sweeper so we were initially planning on purchasing that in 2026 and then doing some repair work in 2025 to just keep it going but then um through my discussions with both the Public Works director who spoke to our senior mechanic we're probably just at this point throwing money into a bad problem that it's not going to yield the ROI that we think it would by uh repair so the thought is it's essentially hitting its the end of its useful life more more in the present so we want to go ahead and replace that in fiscal year 25 instead of 26 and not try to expend those uh uh repair and maintenance dollars on it so Andrew the dates on that are flipped then correct correct yep so we've got instead of 2026 for that replacement now it's going to be 2025 and that's now obviously affecting next year's budget and then in archal and Building Services and sanitation storm water Marina parking management what we have is what we call our um overhead cost allocation plan we spoke about this in in previous workshops so there's a combination of both personnel and operating related expenditures that the general fund and our in various departments within the general fund incurs that assists or supports these other funds for example our accounting software for example the finance director the finance Consultants services to support sanitation to support marinas to support parking um we have an allocation methodology that we employ and that gets updated towards the end of the budget cycle so we initially prepared the the figures it was more of a high level estimate based on okay what's last year and let's put an initial budget figure then we go and we uh recalculate everything annually and so we did that just a matter of weeks ago to kind of finalize those overhead allocation figures and these are very important because if ever asked well why is the general fund charging the building fund of the marina fund X we've got very meticulous detailed spreadsheet that shows here's the factors that that played into that here's their the respective funds allocation percentage of that and so this is now the resulting amount by fund uh by each of these other funds to the to the general fund so we've got detailed worksheets with calculations that support these figures and they were just updated most recently after the July Workshop or before this Workshop so so now those figures are set because they're based on on budget um on those budget expenditures on various personnel and operating expenses like janitorial costs um Insurance costs Etc so those those figures are now set they were just updated from from the previous version then we've got uh sanitation another update uh in the dues and subscriptions line item uh so we're uh looking to expend we only had $500 that line on him but we're looking to make that 14,000 and this is for uh route management software uh I can't recall the name of it but Rubicon thank you so Rubicon route management software to um that will be extremely helpful for the sanitation department um and overall route management efforts with their sanitation trucks so including that in the 2025 budget it wasn't in there initially and then we have in the marina fund we had initially 100,000 um but we needed uh for the state appropriation for seaw wall replacement but we're going to split 70,000 to Marina and 30,000 to archbald so we had to move that um the uh 100,000 down to 70,000 and the archabal and Marina fund are essentially splitting that those appropriation monies so that's 30,000 reduction there not an overall reduction the appropriation itself just now a 7030 split with with archal and then last one just $5,000 we headed zero but we're budgeting $5,000 for uh fuel tax refund collections that we anticipate in 2025 so that's a small little change there and then the last one that's where we uh had it 1.47 five million now that overhead allocation that's just expressed through a transfer so these other funds are transferring collectively 1.67 s million in fiscal year 2025 and then uh so that's the transfer out of those funds transfers into the general fund based on those kind of shared overhead type um uh services and costs that these other funds uh absorb since they're kind of um of direct or indirect benefit to those other funds so that's the the total impact there is 1.67 s million so that may I Y so that last item is more of a administrative between the general fund I'm not quite sure what that extra 202,000 it's just an allocation from one fund versus another it's not an additional expense or is it an additional expense so the so we run the final calculations once in the budget process we didn't do that until early August after the July numbers were run we had these figures these administrative Services figures which were just an initial estimate but we ran the final numbers in early August to get to what the the final budgeted administrative overhead allocation amounts per fund so that's always been there we just changed the numbers based on the L the calculation I discussed that we finalized and put forth in this budget right I know we're not going to be voting to approve any of these specific expenses but like on the recreation the 55,000 I don't remember 30,000 actually being allocated for additional equipment I guess it was um so we're right now we're budgeting 55,000 in additional so the budget was at 30,000 for departmental supplies we want to increase that budget to 55,000 to allow for 25,000 for estimated purchases for gym equipment the entire 55,000 and uh Jay can expand on this is for Department supplies for the entire 30 was the supplies and then you're looking at and I'm sure we'll dig into that as the year goes on but they're looking at 25,000 just for gym equipment that's right um and then on the there bear with me had a couple more questions I think and then the um third line from the bottom parking management are we just we hiring more people in that department is that what that is no that's all still part of that administrative overhead allocation and that's not a physical movement of money that's just an account an accounting entry a transfer out of cash out of parking out of sanitation out of Marina and a transfer in to general fund okay but it's showing as an expense that's pulled out of another category or it's an additional no we're just we are increasing the budget for parking management right so by 198,00 and what justifies that are we addition are we adding more Personnel in that department no not understanding I'm sorry so yeah I can I can try to see if I can explain the administrative overhead allocation and it's common among governments right so I support parking right I work with parking we help process we do bank reconciliations for parking rece it out of other and I am entirely in the general fund and the finance department right so so previous to this you were 100% somewhere else you weren't you weren't allocating any of your time in the the parking division and I'm still all of my costs let's just focus on me it's all about me I know [Laughter] you get two hours I got so it doesn't take long we got Burgers coming all of my costs are hitting finance department Professional Services I'm not an employee of the city all of the city attorney's cost in the is in the Legal Services Department in the general fund but the City attorney will handle matters relating to sanitation will handle matters relating to parking management my me and my team so you get the point right so I'm not taking some of salary and moving it's it's all just in this one line item called administrative Services now why is it why is it different you're asking right uh six months ago when you first put together the budget you knew what your costs were and you knew what Tom's costs were and they were allocated somewhere you can do that with any of overhead for the city they're allocated somewhere so if you're allocating 200,000 more into the parking management division that would mean to me that you pulled it out of somewhere else you an overhead somewhere we didn't increase our expenses we just reallocated them somewhere else great question so when we initially put these numbers together six months ago we didn't do the calculation we just said well what was parking last year let's make it around the same this year but we didn't go into that spreadsheet and and enter the actual inputs then you know say my my costs last year were X now they're y we just made an initial estimate just based on prior year now in the in early August we actually went into that spreadsheet that we haven't touched for 12 months then we went into that spreadsheet entered in all the inputs with our true budgeted cost off fiscal year 25 whereas before they were all based on fiscal year 24 now they're based on FIS year 25 and went through that process to actually conduct the true cost allocation whereas the numbers we presented to you in previous workshops were just okay what was it last year let's just put in a placeholder that's a number you're refining you're refining your numbers exactly it's just a refinement of of the of that what that uh allocable cost for fund is to the general fund yeah right I I thought i' have on this sheet do we have any public comment hello how is everyone good my name is Doug Andrews uh I have a business at 13601 GF Boulevard um and I'm probably the only person that ever sat up there that actually enjoys budget workshops I absolutely love numbers and um but let me let me just kind of look at a couple of things and maybe I can help you you guys out uh I had a friend of mine asked me to look at look at the budget and I didn't really go through it tremendously but even in the hour or so I spent looking at it I found a couple of things that I kind of wanted to bring up to you guys and the main reason why is this is probably and maybe you guys don't think this way but it's probably the most important task you guys have all year okay yes legislating in the city is very important but once this thing goes past all your votes your name's on this nobody else is on this okay you're going to have to answer the questions and and so please nobody no I'm not picking on anybody I'm not telling anybody's trying to pull one over your eyes but these are the questions that you should be asking so that you have the answers in order to answer the public because you know nobody else is going to answer those questions for you okay um Andrew does a great job with the budget so I can't really take too many shots at them but um the one thing I can tell you is there's a couple areas that I don't I don't like about it I I don't think there's enough historical perspective in here um it doesn't go back far enough you only have in most of to the department you only have like one year of actual numbers and that's 2023 and it's really tough to get a gauge of and it's not because of him you can't really fit it all on a sheet um but it's really tough to gauge how a Department's doing and what they've done in the past and the amount of growth or or non-growth that they've had if you can't look back four or five years in order to do so so that's something that does bother me and I also don't like that there's not a lot of line item description and I'll get to that in a minute because when we when we look over the pages you can I can kind of kind of tell you about as we go um the only other thing is I I think you know and these guys behind me are going to hate me but I think you need to have each department head up here defending their budget and where you can ask individual questions they know this better than anybody I mean honestly they live it day-to-day they understand the ins and outs and the inner workings and they know how to dot the eyes and cross the tees you guys don't so when you're looking at you know and I don't tell you don't look at supplies and don't look at look at the major numbers on here and ask them what is this for what is what what's going on here so that you guys know about it because this is your budget you guys are signing off on it okay so just a couple things real quick um if you'll just indulge me for a second look at page 53 real quick in book okay we had a discussion a couple months back when you guys were raising the parking rate and what I was told is oh we make $3 million in parking and you know technically you get $3 million in Revenue in parking but I think you got to look at what's going on historically here um if you look back to the actuals of 2023 the the bottom line number of collection was three 3.54 million right uh but you're if you look to the bottom of the page it's 2.43 in expenses right so made about 1.1 uh again a little historical perspective I'll go back to my last budget here while it looks a lot worse and mainly because I believe parking rates were about a buck 50 then uh the revenue is 1.65 but the expenses were only 2.93 we actually netted more money in 2018 than we did in 2023 Step It Forward when you look at the 2024 budget for the for for parking you're looking at what was initially put forward to you guys which you guys approved last year was the revenue was supposed to be almost $3.9 million okay um the Third column is projected I would prefer the word revised because it's a different it's the same budget it's just being revised they're going to miss projections by $600,000 okay it's got to be questions why why are we missing missing that but more importantly Municipal budgets are a balanced budget right where are we recouping the $600,000 from got to be your first question right because if you're balancing your budget and you're missing $600,000 in Revenue how do you turn around and find that again okay but if you look down your budget for last year you approved losing $400,000 now a lot of that has to do with the parking garage but you know and you look forward and with the new revised number it's a little over two million but remember you're not making three million dollar on parking at some point because you're looking at revised numbers you know in funded positions and you can you can take a look at uh on page 58 at some point but if you look at because that goes back to 2018 you can look at your funded positions in all departments from 2018 to now and you can see the increase a lot of the increase has to do with cost of living increases a lot of it has to do with that and the fact that you can't hire anybody at $8 an hour anymore um can I grab a little bit more time because I got some really good stuff to go through sure you good good everybody good thank you okay so um but just just keep that in mind again it's not to pick on anybody and we're not going to change anything now but you got to keep an eye on this because you know if you went out and put this out to bid you could probably get somebody to give you $25 million dollar a year straight up for parking and you could eliminate all your expenses okay so just keep that in mind um the other portion I wanted to go through and this is this is a really good one for you guys look at page 17 real quick if you would okay if you look down a little bit it's 001 1310 54800 it's promotion and public relations okay look straight across and we're just going to deal with the 2025 budget for right now it's $5,000 okay you guys you guys are the Board of Commissioners what's that what's that number for don't answer because you don't know because I would never even be able to tell you either okay but let's go to page 20 now clar will be able to answer this question because I can answer it for but page 20 Clara's got the same thing on her budget okay promotions in public relations scan across it's $3,000 okay go to page 23 you kind of get where I'm going here city manager has a promotions and public relations budget $60,000 okay Community Development on page 25 promotions in public relations $5,000 the fire department page 28 public promotion in public relations $14,000 non- departmental so you're not you have to be a department and you have a public promotion in public relations budget of $2,000 the department page 40 $258,200 okay I did the math for you so you don't have to the total budget in this budget broken out over those one two three eight divisions is $374,500 of your entire budget of the $1,252 th000 question is what is that for because there's nothing really in this book that tells you what exactly those numbers and that it's not a chump change there's a lot of people looking for raises around here what is that $374,950 for okay so again I did a little historical perspective for you if you if you just give me a second um in 2018 the city manager promotional budget was $115,000 versus 60 now the description and it was uh discretion for special events promotions donation expenditures as approved by city manager Community Development didn't have a number it's $5,000 now City Clerks are still the same at 3,000 clar will be able to tell you that for hosting luncheons for like the league of cities and The Big C and and some of the educational things all right non- departmental was Zero versus 2,000 fire department was 2500 at the time versus 14,000 now and that was for public education material and teaching supplies okay um the wreck $55,000 versus 258,000 community outreach sponsorship promotion special events concerts Etc um Marina 25,000 versus 27,000 advertising fishing tournament expenses and public events okay that explains that in the 2018 budget but it doesn't explain it here okay these numbers have gone up though from I'll give you 100,000 it's $100,500 in 2018 to $374,500 number one what that's a pretty big increase number two what is this money being used for in 2025 okay it's a good question it's a good question asked asked the folks here okay that's all I got guys if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them thank you very much you're welcome thank you for the extra time thank you so it just so happens that I had a couple of conversations this week with different people and one of the things that um was discussed was the I want to find it on my sheet the promotions and public relations and when you go through and you look at every Department that had has promotions and public relations the number is quite large and I went and asked Andrew about it today because it was not something that had caught my eye when I had gone through the budget and had the conversation with him over where what is that money where is it spent and why are we spending so much so um thank you for bringing that up Mr Andrews it was going to be one of the things I was going to bring up just as a topic of conversation so that Andrew could it give some insight to that for the commission sure so to address that specifically promotions and public relations can be different things in different departments uh with the mayor we looked at just specific departments and and actual transactions in fiscal year 24 so Recreation has the largest and of course Jay can speak to that further but in summary all the events that the city is hosting and internally managing that we absorb those expenses those go to public uh uh promotions in public relations and then for those events we also earn revenue and those go to an actual Revenue line item so we don't net revenues and against expenses that's an accounting no no if we incur an expense we record as an expense if we have Revenue we record as a revenue we don't take the net so that's an example where um and I think Marina is another one that's high and they also have believe grunt hunt hits the marina uh promotions public expense oh sorry uh so a lot of those are event driven um and then those with smaller might be some some meetings and um providing lunch at a meeting that kind of adds up to hundreds of dollars to maybe a couple thousand dollars in a year so the the big ones are Recreation and Marina and those are more event driven is the short answer for example Recreation has I mean Jay could say this one of recreation greatest expenses in that GL code is the seafood festival so all of the money that we spend on the seafood festival gets designated to that account if you look at if you go in and you start scouring the budget looking specifically at that line item number you'll find that the uh Community Development Department has that line item and they have money allocated to it it is for what they have used it for is purchasing food when they have um workshops here those types of things um I do think it's a it's a good thing to understand but you can't see the revenue that we're getting to put it to the expenditure in that specific area but you could dig a Little Deeper if you were so inclined to understand that and also I value everyone's feedback so anything that you feel in a future workshop and and maybe next year please give me that feedback could you provide more detail on X Y and Z's certain operating expenditures and I can certainly incorporate that in future budget workshops as we prepare for the the 2026 um budget always happy to accommodate any um any particular information that you want to see in in Greater depth or present it another way um would love the feedback and would love to make any adjustments for next year any other comments or questions all expenditures were being posted at some point they're all Public public uh for public view um so we wanted to but they're not um they're they're not allocated to a certain expense in the public view they're just okay you wrote a check for this amount or this this amount was paid for whatever services or who that was paid out to is that correct to my knowledge yes we have a financial transparency website that anyone from the public can go online and see actual expenditures by GL account by fund by department and budgeted year-to date actual year-to date annualized and then we also have a payment listing tab where you can go in search by vendor see all the payments that vendor description amount Etc I'd have to check if that includes the GL coding general ledger coding I don't believe it does but I can double check is that on the website it is on the city's website so if you just go to our homepage and then you go to departments and go to finance and then within Finance you'll see view fund Department summary created by a Clarion and you click on that then that takes you to our transparency site yeah and then on the payment listing report I'm on it right right now it'll give you vendor description payment amount the source the status the paid fiscal year the and the paid fiscal month and the type of paye um if it was like an employee reimbursement or a vendor but it doesn't give you the code or it doesn't give you the GS the GS coding and then we also have a pecard payment detail report so any payments uh on the purchasing card or credit card for employees we also have all the detail for that so we try to be open and transparent yeah okay well something we have to keep keep an eye on keep our fingers on I think it's wonderful to have the community input it would be even more wonderful if the community input would come earlier in the process I I mean I've had several conversations over the course of our budget workshops with residents and every time I have a conversation with someone and they ask a question it's interesting to me how um a lot of times it's a question I didn't think about or something that I did not I I just overlooked it because I thought I it just overlooked and it makes you dig a Little Deeper understand a little bit more um so I think it's great to get input and have the community involved any more questions how do we do that get the community involved yes gee I don't know well you know no one's here right I mean people don't come to these uh U programs and and also there is no accessibility I think through through media or through or website I will tell you who what I do is I try to have any conversation that I can have with someone if someone starts talking or I'm in an environment where I can have a conversation with someone I always ask people to come yes and ask them if they're not going to come would they at least watch it on TV if they can't watch it while it's playing would they watch it after the fact and then would they just call just call if you don't want to call me call any of the five of us that sit up here and have the conversation to get engaged because we can we sit here and not necessarily are talking we we should not be talking just our opinions our opinion should be rooted in the public yes and rooted in what we hear and know so it is on us and their input that absolutely it is on us as the commission to get out and get involved with our community and with the people that are out there you know it's I mean we don't get a lot of input typically until we start a project which is unfortunate because I mean we've had two workshops for the parking garage and I have high respect for every person person that came but we didn't pack this chamber and when you're talking about an expenditure like a parking garage that is a huge investment for our community we we should have a we should have standing room only here getting input I don't know how you get the people to come it ask get out and do our part as the commission to invite people and try to get them involved I'm sure the staff advertises and um you know what can you do twister dear beach has a website we have an app that you can download that tells you when events are coming you can subscribe to get emails that tell you of all the meetings you can go on social media we're on Facebook Instagram I believe um it they're the city is doing I believe if there's a better way to get it out there to the public I would love for someone to give us the recommendation because the city is is trying um to put things out there to get people involved so I would just suggest we push it forward as far as we can that's very true and I'm I'm very thankful to Doug Andrews to be here today absolutely um a lot of items that he touched on you know I I agree with and there are some things in here that I don't understand and um you know I just don't know if there's a way to maybe spend some time with or staff prior to some of these public hearings you know for instance I'm looking at the the expenditures versus the revenues and I'm thinking okay $ 45.5 million is our budget and I see that for instance the expenditure is 42.7 million and the revenues are 29.5 and the difference is made in what we call fund balance net position available and and to me that is not really so clear you know what is that what is fund balance net position where it makes up the difference and it balances the budget so you know I I don't understand that and I wish that you know I I could have someone kind of explain I think you could benefit from some one-on-one time with the finance department yes if if that because Andrew is a fantastic teacher and he would be I am certain more than happy to spend some time with you to go over to give a deeper understanding so what is a what is um fund balance Andrew would you sort of touch base on that what's what's fund balance slet position available sure so why don't we just cover real quick page 10 and 11 and who should when I'm present that and if you're still confused you know what I'd love to have a one-onone with Andrew I'm more than happy just briefly so I can because that that's what makes the difference between you know the makes the budget Balan basically exactly so I'll give you the to five to 10 minute kind of high level overv when can get in the weeds at you know here or in in a one-on-one setting whatever you're comfortable with but the high level is the budget has to balance so total inflows must equal total outflows but as we know we have revenues that we earn from taxes and charges for services and permit fees and other things and then we have expenses that we budget and they don't all just magically equal each other right so for some funds some funds will earn more revenues than expenses and then we have this what a typical private sector company might say is gross profit governments don't really have gross profit we have a change in fund balance or a change in net position and then that ultimately will increase the ending fund balance or net position for that fiscal year that now it's growing and th there that available fund Bal B net position can then be used to fund a future deficit that we're budgeting so right now we're budgeting a deficit in a fund meaning we only have this much revenue we have more expense how do we uh account for that shortfall well if we have a stockpile an accumulation of fund balance over the years from positive change in fund balance and imp position then we can use those available uh those Monies to then um fund that that shortfall so that our total sources equal to our total uses so that makes sense on a high level and and so then that's what kind of on page 10 that's how that's presented by fund right and so if we just look at the um let's say the archal fund and I know that's a it's trying to all pack into one table so a little hard to read but if we look at the archal fund is in the First Column that we got the building fund for example let's just let's focus on the building fund that one's easy so building fund has permits fees special assessments of 1. one, 305,000 and then miscellaneous revenues that's mostly interest income on their portion of Interest Revenue that the city earns on Citywide Investments so those uh those are your total inflows of 1, 345,000 and then we're expected to spend we're budgeted to spend 1,775 th000 and so of that 646 th000 is Personnel 161,00 is operating and then a big chunk is that 675,000 of uh of capital and then that other uses of 29220 that's that administrative Services over allocation where that's what the general fund is charging the building fund it's a it's the other use um and so there's your your your total and then you take that difference between the 1 million 345 and the 1,775 that shortfall is $43,000 that we're going to take out of the available fund balance in the building fund in order to balance the budget at the fund level so yes if we if you keep seeing in the budget oh my gosh we keep we have a massive discrepancy between revenues and expenses that can be concerning now all these are very Capital driven and so we've you know had previous workshops on on our proposed Capital spend uh some of that money were for projects that we had that we had planned back in 2019 on storm water drainage improvements we issued debt in 2019 to the tune of15 million that we still have unspent debt proceeds uh that are going that are going to be a source but those aren't revenues those are just available cash that we have and again that's where we're pulling from that available uh monies that we have in that fund that aren't necessarily current period revenues and storm water is one of our biggest um fund that we have capital expenditure and so then the next page on on page 11 this was actually from a a request from commissioner K is hey can I just see what we look like current period revenues compared to current period personnel and operating expenses and let's pull the capital out for now or at least where do we stand in terms of how much we're earning in Revenue to what we're spending on just ongoing services for paying our people and our typical operating expenses and that's on page 11 or that operating Capital analysis by funds we show what's our excess of revenues over expenditures just for personnel and operating Debt Service and other grants in Aid you can see positive trends for the most part um in in in those funds and then you have Capital down at the bottom to Mr Andrew's point I guess um and this is this is exactly what we were asking for because the basically we have a $20 million operating budget according to the 20,8 37,000 is that correct that's the operating budget exactly that's that's operating budget that's our budget less the capital expenses that are in the paragraph below the light items below we pulled yeah we pulled out the capital and we pulled out the right so right now transfers in and out we're budgeting to have a negative $13 million but that's because of the capital expens expenses so year to year my focus and and as I was beginning to say to Mr Mr Andrew's Point how does that 20 million compare to previous years we could go back to 2018 we could go back to 2022 we could you know how what are we how are we trending on our on our operating budget we know it's going to go up every year because cost living goes up um utilities go up all the things that are that drive that that end number but is it going up typically 5% or is it typically going up 10% or is it going up 3% this doesn't really give you that sense but it but it's a it's a great asset to have it broken out this way in my mind because Capital expenses you can you can decide okay I don't know what we have in fund balance now the way I understand it's 20 some million is that correct that we that we're sitting sitting on that we're going to pay this 13 million out of so we're not really going in the hole we don't have to go get Debt Service to pay these you know we've budgeted over the years for these Capital expenses but the money's there um it's like okay I in I related to your home expenses I know I want a new car so I put $10,000 I I try to save $10,000 a year until I get that money that I can go ahead and allocate it and go out and buy that new car the way the you know I still have my operating expenses I still have my mortgage and I still have my have to pay put gas in my car and all those things so you know if I have 80% of my income allocated to that but I put 20% into that fund for that new car that's kind of the way I Envision it um but how do you offhand know what we have in our fund balance currently so according to our latest audited financial statements for the period for year ending September 30 2023 we've got about 25 million in total fund balance for all of our governmental funds which is the general fund the building fund and then and you can see our governmental funds archal building Debt Service gas tax general fund imp so as we sit here going through this process in my mind the biggest piece of what we're doing is that $20 million budget for operating expenses you know how how is that needle moving I know in the last year or two you know we could be judged that okay we did some huge things for the city staff with retirement with the EMS with a really nice contract but you know there's um so that has impacted our operating cost tremendously but we've all agreed that it was something that was needed um we have a great staff and we are supporting and as a board we're supporting our fire and EMS and we're um we're keeping a great state there and it's um the benefits over Road the cost in our in our mind when we made those Vats um you know but is it sustainable I guess that's the point is it sustainable to keep that with the with the revenue increases that we get each year our expenses are going up but so is our revenue and that's why we've maintained our millage rate and that's why history of what we do is important right so it's kind of my mindset on the whole budget process but it would be great to understand what that what that chart looks like on our operating cost sure at a future meeting I can provide a multi-year historical analysis rev and expenditures and and pull out Capital the same way and and slice and dice the dating capital is something you know we can push off for a year if we can push it all for five years or we can double up if we if we want to but operating is pretty much that's going to be that that we've we've committed to that we've not committed to one year we've committed to it for every year that's my I'll get down off the soap box I'm sorry thank you anything else with that we are it is 4 5 5 we are adjourned