all right thank you for attending we really appreciate everybody here I know a few of you have attended two or three of these meetings so we appreciate you your lovely faces again uh I am Jenny Rowan I'm the community development director to my right is Andrew he's our longrange planner and to my left is Marcy she's Our Community Development engineer we have Jay in the back he will be helping uh he's our newest planner and then we also have lovely Lisa walking around so I'll go through our presentation we have a short presentation some of yall have heard this before and then and afterwards we will be going through each character District by character District getting your input on things that are important in those areas um potential or possible Heights um any changes with that um any changes with setbacks all right so we are here to talk about John's Pass Village uh zoning District zoning uh and this is the last of our public public workshops for this round so a little bit about local land regulations and what we look at when we're looking at your land or a piece of property and seeing what you can build on it um so there are three three different plans that we're really looking at so at the county level there with forward pelis there's a countywide plan so in that they have rules strategies and then they have a corresponding map so each parcel of land has a designation at the county level and in those countywide rules you really have your allowed uses your intensity so like how big your building can be and then density how many units per acre for residential and hotel use and then you also have ISR your impervious surface ratio and then going down from there locally we have two different plans so we have with our compreh hensive plan and what we're focusing on in our comprehensive plan is the land use element looks very similar to the Cy rules so you have your uses allowed uses all your intensity density impervious surface ratio that's really the Bare Bones and then going down from that we have the madir beach code of ordinances in there we have a section that's the Land Development regulations you'll hear me refer to this is ldrs which encompasses all of our zoning so you'll have a zoning district for your map for your parcel as well so you have three different designations one at the county level one at the comprehensive plan level that's called the future land use and then we have zoning here at the bottom and so today we're really talking about the zoning in John's Pass Village and with the zoning it'll reflect the countywide plan the comprehensive plan so you'll have your intensity density your uses but it breaks down your uses into primary uses accessory uses special exception uses and then in the zoning you have your setbacks your Heights all the nitty-gritty of what you can do with your property so this is what those three Maps look like so here on the left side we have the countywide plan map and the area that we're talking about today the John's Pass Village Activity Center so that's everything in this darker blue and then you can see here at the bottom right is with our comprehensive plan our local comprehensive plan see how they look very similar we have that Activity Center land use that's in purple the same footprint and now we're looking to our zoning map um and as you can see there's multiple different zones in that Activity Center area so a little bit of the history here um between 1940s and 80s many of those buildings in that John's Pass Village area were built in 83 there's a creation of the modern Madar Beach zoning which includes the uses the Heights and the setback many of these did not reflect what was actually built on the ground and then in 2007 and 8 there were amendments passed to the comprehensive plan and then the Land Development regulations which exceeded those countywide plan maximums and to go back to those three different plans they all have to correspond with each other we cannot have something locally that exceeds the maximums of the county we can be more restrictive but we can't be less restrictive and then in 2020 to 2022 current staff found these inconsistencies and then proceeded with public meetings on how we Rectify this um the public feels about this and then also working with Ford pelis so the county on possible ways how to proceed so between 22 and 24 uh the John's passive Village Activity Center was created and adopted at the county and the local level in the conference of plan and since that is adopted we are required to to look at our zoning and have corresponding zoning so why an activity center in that John's Pass Village area so it's really to protect protect the unique character of The Village um to ensure that we have compatible Redevelopment we must be consistent with the countywide plan and it's really a proactive instead of reactive approach in planning now going back to the Land Development regulations or ldrs so looking at zoning I kind of touched on this earlier but it says your uses so it'll have your primary use your accessory use and your special exception if you have a special exception use that means it has to go to the special magistrate as an allowed use and then in the zoning you'll also see setbacks that are from the property lines and Building height which is measured from design flood elevation we'll be going over in the next few slides and then also something that we see in zoning are special requirements so there might be extra landscape requirements in certain zonings with certain uses there may be an additional setback if say you're a hotel and you're next to a single family duplex or Triplex things of that nature we'll see in the special requirements all right I'll turn it over to Marcy so as uh Jenny previously mentioned our building Heights are measured from the design flood elevation the entirety of Madera Beach is in a special flood Hazard area so the entire Community has base flood elevations that mapped on FEMA maps for instance uh John's Pass Village in that area you'll typically find will be a base elevation of 10 11 or 12 as you get into the velocity zones so that is your base flood elevation based on your address after that medira beach or most all flood Hazard communities have a freeboard madira Beach's freeboard is four feet so when you have a base flood elevation of 11 ft we add 4T to that and your designed flood elevation then becomes 15 ft so you have your base elevation plus your free board gets you your designed flood elevation the design flood elevation dictates where the first elevated floor has to fall so if you are in a coastal a or velocity Zone your first elevated structural member has to be at that design flood elevation or higher if you're outside of a coastal a or V Zone simply your finished floor will have to be at that elevation we'll have some drawings later and kind of discuss that a little more with some visuals but we do have a building here where we have shown kind of how we measure the height and the elevation that it starts from and remember the design flood elevations are elevations you can be standing on the ground and be at an elevation of five not zero so that's something to keep in mind as we discuss height and how we measure it what we found too is historically you'll notice older buildings when you walk in the ceiling is lower newer buildings have higher ceilings so the average story we're finding is between 11 and 14 fet um that'll typically be measured from the floor that you walk in on and let's say you have a 10ft high ceiling then maybe the foot foot and a half above that is where your structural joist are also where your duct work can be running it's where your plumbing can be your lighting can be so that's why you end up with stories that are 11 to 14 feet um so also um we have setbacks we've talked a little bit about Heights and building setbacks we measure the building setback from the property line to the exterior most outer edge of the structural member along the atg grade structure so no portion of the building when it's constructed can be within that setback so we have side yard front yard and rear yard setbacks and depending on your zones they will vary so that would be some of the things we'll be talking to you guys about today setbacks in the village along the boardwalk commercial core what makes sense in those areas so the setbacks are primarily measured when you're at grade again to the outermost structural member as you get to the second floor our code as well as many other codes have caveats for what patios can do patios can EX for example can't deliver four feet in to a required setback so as you go higher you can there's a little bit of a difference there and we'll have the opportunity to discuss those as well today when we discuss the setbacks um some people like that the buildings become more setback the higher they get so that it doesn't seem like a full wall so that's where your setbacks come into play and why they're important for this discussion all right so how we discussed a little earlier uh we have our existing zoning map here on the left side and then this is based off of the special area plan and the John's Pass Village um Activity Center so obviously we know that things on 133rd look very different than things on Boardwalk which looks very different than things on Village Boulevard so the activity center or this area is broken up into six different districts so we'll be going through each of these districts uh we'll be asking you to we'll only be talking District by District we'll be talking about Heights setbacks and then any special requirements or things that maybe you've talk you talk about at your tables that are important that um that should be kept like design guidelines or standards in certain certain areas so I'll be starting with the boardwalk District so the existing zoning is C2 the setbacks uh the front is is from Boardwalk Place so right here not along the boardwalk uh so the front is 20 ft this is from your property line uh side is 5 foot on one side and then the rear or Waterfront is none so right against that actual boardwalk and the height from design flood elevation is 34 fet so here we just plucked out one of the properties Within this district and impose those those setbacks and the height so you can see here 34t measured from it's easy to imagine the DFE as like the second floor because it is kind of hard to imagine in your mind when you're looking at height um so you can see here 34 feet is from that second floor upward to the roof and we have 20 ft just a long Boardwalk walk place and then 5 ft on one side and just an example of a building that is on the in the boardwalk District um and as we can see here here's the Bas flood elevation at 11 uh design flood elevation is at 15 so that's where we're starting to measure height and so from there to the roof is 37 ft and half inch and some pictures of Boardwalk character District okay so we will give you 10 minutes um and we have to be strict about the time so I know some of our other actually all of our other workshops we kind of went overtime so we'll give you 10 minutes to discuss amongst yourselves and your groups and then we'll come along and each group will have one person to say what your table discussed what you think the height appropriate height appropriate setbacks and then any other special requirements all right and I'll start the timer and we'll just be walking around so grab us if you have any questions e hello okay hey for the um for the boardwalk area currently restaurants have serving space down on the on the seafloor area basically I don't know what else to call that but right down on the ground level that's not going to change with this right would they still be able to have their serving space down on that ground level because the images show it has to start it at that you put the board walk in a picture but it doesn't show that they could serve down on the ground is that still possible commercial structures are allowed to flood proof so there's dry flood proof measures and wet flood proofing measures so they are allowed to use the space below for parking or you know servicing like you've talked about so yes they can the second um you showed the picture of the setback but it was behind the boardwalk now when we were talking about the elevated so if there's decks does that go over then that Boardwalk is that included we would our intent would not be to put anything over top of the boardwalk as it becomes elevated let's say if it was a story higher we would not have it come over the boardwalk no correct yes it would have yes the boardwalk is a bit unique like that we wouldn't let you go over the boardwalk we would probably be pretty clear about that and the zoning WR up as far as where we as that yeah whatever um of can deling you know patios or outdoor seating areas something like that if you y'all want to discuss that that's something that we can definitely write in there so you would look at it would actually step back um worksheet up there for you which which one the lady in the blue shirt yeah okay yep we have I have one sounds yep yep Parks I mean basically all my stuff except for sanitation do everything um but yeah this one would be trying to do some serious STM water stuff but we are are trud my girlfriend girlfriend I actually have a guy that okay did not likeo new there's the work right there's a pen for you there's pizza and coffee over there e e e okay we have a minute and a half e e all right and time is up okay so choose a person at your table to talk for for the table um and then we'll go around table to table you want to start over here all right yes oh my God okay okay so we would like to keep the building Heights to their current height on the front side make sure that we have pedestrian friendly because we have the roadway in there now and it's not pedestrian friendly the pedestrians have to walk in the road and then on the architectural aspects to make it or keep it aesthetically pleasing the side set back only on the continuous contiguous structure on the ends not have it in between buildings that makes no sense at all and that's all we have and for the height is it keeping it current code okay okay just want to make sure okay all right next table all right um I'll speak for this table here what we're looking at looking that those pictures as well we think and guy and I actually own the property on the boardwalk so we're looking at it from a couple different perspectives number one there should not be any set back in between buildings to keep that walkability along the boardwalk zero sides at all um from a rear perspective should be zero you should go right up to the boardwalk on that one as well and then I think similar what you're talking about the other table is the front just enough for a nice sidewalk to walk by and so it's a five off the front Okay so five foot off the front 0 0 0 and then from a height perspective we don't think from a character perspective nothing should ever be able to be higher than what's there right now on that so I don't know exactly what the current code is is that as high as the Hooter restaurant there so they have a lay of yeah restaurants and then that the highest that we that we've found so a lot of these buildings just in general um a lot of buildings in this area not just Boardwalk but in the John's Pass Village area um they were built before the current zoning codes we don't have building plans of everything so we've plucked out some from each district just showing the height so this is the highest one that we have found we agree with nothing higher than that that 37 37 y so that's our that's our vote from this table all right who's going to speak at this table no with with the with the height uh we are uh we believe it should be where the current one is so 3705 in for height for the rear setback we'd like to leave it at none and not because we were arguing but because we just didn't get that far in our discussion we don't have a consensus on front uh front and side we only had the the rear okay sorry that's where we are that's okay all right last table okay for the uh uh proposed side setback we we we agree that it should be able to be contiguous all right um so zero and then for the proposed rear set back uh zero right up to the boardwalk and then it's difficult for us to identify the front because we don't know the dimension of the road the we know that there needs to be a 5 foot sidewalk that's that's a really key thing you need to be able to have a 5 foot sidewalk but outside of that how far do you bring that property back because if you take 20 feet from there there's no space to put anything so that's it's got to be realistic the other thing is when you look at uh floors above the first floor you shouldn't be able to overhang the boardwalk and we're currently debating we haven't come up with an idea can you overhang over all the way up to the maximum extent of the property on a second floor coming towards is that the front is the street side front the street side yeah additional balconies that's what we were debating but we haven't got through it over the boardwalk no okay over the boardwalk no none over on the other side the other side we get oh and then height exist existing code or existing building code 34 okay building sorry building building okay yeah so 37 all right okay moving along now we're going to go over to the commercial core so the commercial core currently has an existing zoning of C1 the setbacks and height are a little different so setbacks from the front none the side is 10 feet on one side the rear is 25 ft the height from design flood elevation is 34t just an example of uh we plucked a few different because we do have some larger uh properties there but then there's also smaller properties so we just have examples of both of them and keep in mind that commercial can flood prooof the ground floor so that's different than residential um say hotels like you can't have units on the ground floor but commercial can flood proof the ground floor uh but we're still measure from that design flood elevation which is going to be around the second floor and just some examples there of the setbacks and the Heights and then an example of the highest building there uh so grabbing your design flood elevation to the very top of the roof uh is 55 ft 6 and 12 in and then some pictures of buildings that are in that District all right and I'm going to start the timer I'll give you 10 minutes and and this picture has a good example of how the building is set back but then above the patio and walkway comes out over and then on the bottom right is another example of where um you do have a setback of the second and third floor so that's also something that could be written into the zoning codes just to keep in mind e e e this e e look those this e e you e for e e for El e all right and my timer just went off so are any of the tables ready to talk about Heights and setbacks all of you are okay who wants to start there we go all right yeah all right so we're looking at this one it's a complex one to look at if you think about because there's so many different intricacies with the boardwalk with the alley with all those different aspects running through so looking at it the way we've been slicing and dicing this thing is even though the large Parcels there are a bunch of individual Lots right in there so if we were just saying if we owned one of those lots each How would have to be treated right because that's what you have to look at individual property rights so what we looked at is because you have Boardwalk Place running along the boardwalk and then you have 129th we kind of treat those as the fronts right all the way down and then we treat the alley as the rear setback is kind of where we're going from on our on our thing here so because there's if you just talk about Boardwalk Place first there's already a nice sidewalk there it's about what 18 ft whatever it is already there so what we were talking about is if you did build something on there there could be a 10t setback for the first floor but allow it to overhang completely to the property line kind of like that throw before because if you guys think about B John's Pass everybody walks in to go shopping on that one side that's covered right nobody's on the other side because it's hotter than crap realistically right but they everybody likes where that's covered so we're talking about why don't we able to be go all the way to the property line on the second floor over cuz who cares right you're covered the first floor creates some balcony some little beastro type seating right there so that's what we're talking about from the front would be 10 just for the first floor and allow to go to zero basically above that side set back zero on all these Lots here because they're narrow and then the rears because they back up to the alley that's got a curb zero because it's not needed there's going to be parking we have another Workshop I'm sure about getting more parking into the past one day but it shouldn't be the burden on that property owner because it's not enough to support anything that gets built there anyway so summary is zero sides zero rear and then 10 on the front with the overhang to the property line everything above that and from a height perspective we're looking from cohesiveness you can't go any higher than anything that's already there right that's the consensus over here and I guess that would be the other picture you showed a minute ago um that so 55 yeah can't go over that that Peak so that's that's our recommendation we think that would look cohesive would fit in with the character and create some good opportunities for the village all right you guys have any import really really have to stress the importance of parking so we that has to be added there all caps caps all caps and bold no but that table had the same comments similar comments well any differences sidew okay and any floor yeah the proposed Sun front setback needs at least a 10-ft sidewalk and then whatever happens up to that you know okay but the the the second floor up shouldn't go all the way across we were talking half the distance 5 foot if it's a patio something like that a five overhang okay and I think everything zero it's nice zero side unless it's owned by a different company having having no setback provides shade for people to show and that's that's a nice feature yeah it's it's a really fo sidewalk to build in some shape it's better for Builders because they get okay and height was no oh height height was um the current building okay I think ours mirrors uh with that table came up with uh the front the front set back you said was 10 right first floor all the way to the part the lines for shade for the second uh we did say we we liked the the side set back maybe on the end the street side only but I don't know if that works in this area like it did in the uh other in the other District uh in the rear zero and then we would like to maintain the current existing at 55 feet 6.5 Ines for height okay no matter what size of the lot I know y'all were talking we talked about it but we didn't really get a a 100% consensus uh that would be50 5 ft a discussion I'm not going to say that was our consensus was that 55 ft 6.5 Ines would be if you have an acre of land or more then for half an acre down to the 44 and then less than half an acre would be 34 the 34 but again we didn't reach consensus on that that was just part of the discussion for the front um for the front you agreed with the 10 foot set back on first floor and then zero second and up okay we're going to be easy with this we agree with Jeff on everything he said with this it it fits one thing on that what you we have an existing roof now that doesn't come out all the way so we add on to the curve if we add on to the curb how are we going to finish it that because now you have a look of straightness and then you have the roof yes so we have to think about I love what you said it's the next step aesthetically so if we're going to do that or put that into to whatever we want to try to finish the roof aesthetically so it makes sense not just have a bungalow and then a roof and it's like Tom did this and Jerry did that we don't and if there are any kind of Dormers or fake Dormers to break up that roof line aesthetically should be added design guidelines I like what Mr T says about uh half acre and 3/4 acre what but when you build on it they should be all unique so if they they lot is smaller the AC is smaller or the point small and the person or the Builder or the owner wants to build they hi to to be unique with the rest of them they should be unique with the rest of them regardless of what size of lot you have because you don't want to go up and down you know it's you know if you want to keep something you're going to keep something straight nice and unique because if you change they up and down because the Anchorage and then uh it's not a more John's Pass you're going to we have to keep the same uh level and people will like that thank you okay okay yeah okay moving along we're going to go across Gul Boulevard to johnp pass resort So currently this is the R3 zoning category you'll see this all up and down Gulf Boulevard on the west side so the beach side the front varies on your use so if you're single family duplex Triplex your front set back is 20 ft if you're multi family Hotel commercial it's 25 ft and then the side depends on your use and then how wide your lot is so if you're a single family duplex Triplex you're less than 50 ft wide then your setbacks are 5T on both sides so 5T and 5T if you're a single family duplex Triplex and your lot is 50 ft or wider then you will have 10 ft so 10 ft and 10 ft on your sides um that goes also with any multif family hotel or commercial and then your rear setback if you're along the beach if your property goes along the Beach it'll be the cccl which I'll show you in the next slide um and if you're not along the beach then it's 25 ft from the property line your height from DFE is 44t and then here's one of the special requirements I was talking about before if you're hotel or multifam which ABS a residential use then there's an additional 5 foot a setback so what that could look like as you can can see here is the cccl that lime green line right here so if you're on the beach that is your setback in the rear and then we have two different examples on a larger lot we do have large lots and then we have smaller Lots in this area um so this is one of the larger Lots here's 44 feet and depending on how tall your stories are that could be some where between three to four stories so we kind of just give you an idea of what that could look like and then here on the bottom it's 15 ft and 15 ft because that additional 5T see if there's residential on both sides and then up here is just that 10 foot setb so looks a little different and an example um I believe this is Beach Place and here's the DFE the design flood elevation that green line so measuring there from the to the roof is 50 ft and 8 in 8 and a/4 in and there are some things that can exceed that height just such as mechanical units so that's not measured in the height and then looking at one of the smaller Lots down here CU we do have smaller Lots in this District um you have similar s setbacks to the bigger Lots so what that looks like kind of have a tall skinny building here and just some examples of what's built already in that District so you have a variety of larger condo buildings and then you do have your smaller smaller buildings commercial smaller um also single family duplex and triplexes so really keep that in mind when you're talking about your setbacks your Heights that there's a v variety of uses um and variety of lot sizes there all right and I will start the timer I just uh just say one one statement about uh this uh so so this past week I I I did do some I looked at some of the older zoning ordinances and a lot of these older condo buildings that were built in the 70s and early 80s uh the reason why they're five stories over parking the R3 zoning District used to allow for 60 feet from grade uh which back then equal about five stories over parking um the height was reduced to um like 40 feet from grade or three stories over parking um back then and then basically anything taller than that in the r3s like that were built in was was either done either via variance or or resoning to a PD um so uh just kind of the and and any of the buildings that are about five story they also had like lot size or I think or lot width requirements where like you had to have a certain lot to get up to 60 feet from grade um so that's why like a lot of those are on like on pretty large Lots is because you needed to get a certain amount of land to get up to that height back then before the it was reduced um but just a little context why why it's like that no just just John's Pass there there will be other districts that are R3 but yeah we're just looking at John's Pass all right I'm starting the timer now e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay and the timer just went off are we all ready I know that table needed a little bit more time is there a table that's ready with their start here then okay all right this one's easy because we see no problems with what's there at all as long as I think the consistency is keep it nothing higher than the current buildings that are there right now which is that 50t and the fronts rears and sides work so that's the way we look look at that John's Pass Resort district is it's fine at the highest level yeah okay we would like to keep everything where it is including the current height under code at the 44 44 and all of your setbacks we're good with same okay it to mer okay so we agreed with uh what Jeff said the only thing that we wanted to add was based on lot size uh we don't want you know a small lot going five feet up so do you do it by size we can do by lot size we do have uh currently if you look at this slide uh it's based on the width in this in this District so we could do something like if you're 50 feet then kind of have that with the height as well so we're going to do that table was current Building height yes setbacks were this oh um and then do like a little asteris and then we can do um smaller smaller Lots wouldn't be lower all right next table um the current that with regards to setbacks we're we're fine with the current set setbacks but uh please take make considerations and address setbacks for larger and smaller uh properties make make those considerations and it looks like it's somewhat built in uh but maybe go larer setback for the larger Lots exactly exactly and with regard to the height we're the the height that's there is fine but we would like to put a second uh a second consideration uh also either that height or five stories over parking so that we have two safeguards so that we couldn't uh we so that we couldn't a developer couldn't we were concerned with addition FL with adding floors right so five stories over parking with that height restriction as well so we have two two definitions and would you do the height restriction of the building that's there or the code the building building 50 whatever it was yeah okay and then um current considerations for lot size par did you put uh larger setbacks for larger Lots all right so when the floor area ratio comes into play I think everyone needs to understand that normal before when you had a parking garage that square footage of the area the parking garage never counted before right it was just a parking garage and then you counted your four to area ratio is the amount of air conditioned square footage you're allowed to have in your in your building right so when this changed one thing is that they count the garage now as if it were air conditioned space so the the threat and the fear of everybody overbuilding is really handcuffed badly because of what the county put into this thing so I don't see there's it's only if you use the alternative temporary in use standards but if you use those standards you get a slightly higher F and slightly higher density um but that's so that would be for a building that would if if some so that's kind of the challenge with zoning you can have various different scenarios of allowed uses down there so in a scenario where someone came in and applied or did a development agreement for those alternative temporary lodging use standards um that the garage would have to count and that's based off the language from the county that's more restrictive uh that that we uh were required to include if someone was building a residential condominium they would the that the garage wouldn't count towards the f um so just but the but a residential cond Dominion would be being built at 18 units per acre so it's it's it's less density than a so the kind of including the garage kind of restricts the number of hotel rooms you could have so there's offs with everything it gets kind of that there's so many different scenarios and stuff and and then even that like the alternate temporary loging standards um like uh the F varies based on lot size too um so but but we made sure that include very strict Lang because the the more vague it is we didn't want wiggle room we wanted to have language that was very clear what what was can and can be done down there so Y is it is it possible just for the sake of ease if you because I think you guys just said it if you did five floors over parking right and allowed two levels of parking to look at madira Bay for example right well that's a that's two floors of parking and it's got five floors of units that's not ridiculous it's not crazy it's not destructive it's not clearw beach and it would be something that would be something that everyone could agree on takes ambiguity out of the way and then you want to have a reasonable ceiling height but if you're if you have five floors over a Max of two parking and you you even put on your slids four ceiling Heights are 11 to 14 ft so it can't be any higher than that and then you have a nice unit that will sell for good money which matters because that brings in tax dollars to the city right and there is a difference between an 11 and 1/2t ceiling and a 9ft ceiling from a feeling of a piece of property too so I think a couple feet here or there doesn't really matter but I think if you had a 5 over two simple rule everybody would know what that rule is and they could play with it and ambiguity and finger pointing and all the accusations might go away I would suggest if we do the story also having like a maximum footage something like as if you had nice 12T ceiling say Okay maximum is five of those and then a rooftop and two parkings just just a simple thought you know yeah you could say It's Too Tall but what's the difference in 6 feet when you're up 44 or you're up 50 really I mean yeah that's a personal opinion I don't see treated it also is if you can you can and that's what you're talking that's what you want to put there oh what one option one option is you you really lock it at the actual six stories from grade and if you do two floors of parking you only get four floors of living space I mean that's one way to do it if if you really want the hard hard limit of of so many exactly to what currently exists so that's why it's good to have that language in there to kind of specify like what can can't be done down there um so so yeah that uh that's 51 feet from DFE so it's it's probably 60 feet from grade that's what was in the code when that was built I I think the challenge is modern buildings the floors are probably gon to be slightly higher so like look it for this way the Serano is a Condo building that was built in the 2000s that was unfortunately done via variance but it was done that way to basically get back up to the height to build a modern five stories over parking condominium so that they got a variance I think they did 60 feet from BFE um when I was looking that up so uh I I think they're like having the hard limits so you don't end up having rooftop things that end up being a seven story or having two floors of parking would then make it a seven story building like lock it just at six stories and whatever happens between that if you want two stories of parking and four stories of living space or if you want five stories of living space and one story of parking but it just has to be less than that six stories and have that hard hard limit to but the floor height thing like that's any newer is going to come in probably slightly taller that's kind of the challenge with locking it at that 50 from you're going to end up with very skinny floors but if that's what the board want it's really up to the what the community and the and if they want the to keep the skinnier floors uh with the then then we'll write it that way but I think I think based on what we got it's easy to understand feet you're saying six stories but we're looking at feet 50 is where it's at right now so if you're saying six stories 11 feet 11 feet minimum per story is is 66t no it be 55t from DFE that's how it' be written in our code from so DF the second I think we're we're debating about from grade or from DFE and and basically on the beach side you're you lose the first floor because I mean just going to be parking um in each district from DF is 508 and a half eight and a qu in and that that's what that's what that's on the screen and then it's it was built 60 feet from grade but back then we didn't have those freeboard requirements so what I'm saying is if you built this newer this if you had the if this had the demolished and you had to rebuild it it's the first floor is going to be taller because of our four feet of freeboard and the base flood elevation probably higher now and then the each floor is going to probably be taller so you're going to end up just because of the different requirements of it you're going to end up with a taller building it' still be five stories over parking or six stories from grade but it wouldn't be a onetoone carbon copy of of that because but if you guys want the narrower floors we we could leave that in if that if if you if you want the hard limit of 50 feet from from DFE match that one to one besides having the the higher because the four feet of freeboard and and the base flood elevation might be different now um we could write it that way but um well well well you yes typically what we see is like 11 to 14t is like the average for new construction yeah this had Beach place was built in the past so they have smaller uh so they have like about 10 feet instead of what we see today yes do we have one more table to get to right right and then and then if we if anybody wants to change their answers then we'll speak up after that and we can always um you know write down any amendments to your is it code that you have to have two floors of parking if you build four residential floors no we do have a parking so in other words you could build one floor of parking and have five floors of residence it depends on how many how many units you have so that's so that's already stipulated in this no matter what in other words that's written in code Andrew can use that's kind of the challenge you have a lot of different scenarios of because different things require different amounts of parking because hotel rooms are it's it's like one per hotel but then like for certain is it every for every five need an additional and then if you have employees if you have ancillary use 50% whereas if you have residential like condo then those are our current codes right those are our current parking standard they can be changed yes so what is happening what up many cities are are contemplating a few have adopted them I think Portland and Vancouver is reduced parking stand meaning if you required one parking for two living units now it's only one parking for five living units just as an example why to promote less Vehicles they're typically doing this in densely populated areas your downtowns your Urban centers where it's densely populated there's not I I don't believe Florida Statutes prohibit us or any city in Florida from adopting that something to consider what the requirement would be is okay developer we're allowing you 30 units but you can only have six parking spaces for those 30 units meaning who are you you know how do you Market how do you sell that you're not going to be able to have a vehicle so something just so that every that is kind of where it's trending to go to not so much using your vehicle particularly if you have the ability to walk to get what you need or public transit or whatever that might be but public transit is a little bit of a you know here the trolley works well if you're going north and south on Golf Boulevard it works very well I take it uh of course I like to walk but I do take the truck but that being said just something to consider to not get so hung up on parking but our code is currently as was stated but again that can change going into the future which gives more some additional options really to developers not necessarily to go taller or to go denser but it allows if we're going to limit the height to 55 fet from what you can see then maybe they could have five floors of living units and only one floor of parking just something to consider going into the future is the concern more about like rooftop uses and noise is that like more of the concern down there or just park it well we have one where that is a concern yeah yeah um yeah yeah I I wouldn't I would not ride a bicycle I personally do not ride a bike on gol Boulevard but that's just me but I know plenty of people who do yeah all right well one other thing because right now forward pelis is studying St Pete Beach and Treasure Island for on GF Boulevard specifically to look at vehicular and pedestrian traffic um what could happen in the future another is Gulf Boulevard speed is reduced to 30 m an hour but I hear from many people I don't want to drive 30 miles an hour it's going to take me you know however long depending on where you're going but things to consider how to balance cars with pedestrians and just pedestrians versus Vehicles pedestrians lose every time yeah I I mean in this area it's going to have this Standard Parking that we require throughout the city except the only places where we in our code that we allow for reduced parking is within John's Pass Village like in the actual Village part and then in a t and then in part of a town center up here near City Hall everywhere else we we have the full parking and including this area would have the the two two parking spots per unit and the whatever our parking is for hotels which requ for the ants so um but if if the concern is to keep it at whatever six stories from grade is whether that's five stories over one floor of parking or four stories over two floors we could write that in the code to make sure it stays at six stories from grade like what currently exists on some of those larger Lots down there um but Andrew yeah is there such a thing as a multiple multiple use building in other words half condos half rentals in other words an like like a hotel there are there are I've seen hotels that have mix of permanent residence and temporary lodging we in other words there's no code stopping that I mean basically on the F and the density is really what Li it what you can do down there so so you could go away you could get away with one floor of parking and and do your five-story building in multiple use like the top two floors condos and the bottom three floors as a hotel unit yeah I I me I'd have to do the math and and see what but that's a possibility potentially yeah is an option you could do condominium down there or you can do a um Hotel like so there are different Choice the only thing you can't do on the on the beach side and that we're not going to allow for Standalone commercial uses down there on the beach um that that we made sure to prohibit that because I know that that was a concern but you can do you can do a single or or mixed use if it's if it's like residential or temporary lodging or potentially a mix if it stays within that F and density counts that that restrict that okay and we have one more table I just want to move it along so go just real quick I like the uh the height cap more than the floor cap um also does this apply just for uh larger Lots or or can you know that's the only concern like if you have a five or six story cap over parking you know and you have a very small lot you could have a seven story building on a small building lot you know yeah so we can write in standards for if you're less than half an acre if you're you know quarter acre or however wide your lot is so there's there's ways to have different standards for smaller Lots versus larger Lots okay but I I do I like the the capping at the height of the existing you know or even just slightly above rather than the five floors over two floors of parking that doing the stories and did this table did y'all um talk about the height and and setbacks of what of what you thought setbacks are fine how they are and then height of the current building that's there or the current code there's a little bit of a variation yeah the yeah like some somewhere around like the 54 feet range you know okay yeah great thank you and did anybody want to change their answer based on store stories adding stories or everybody's good with I wrote it marker though I can't oh [Music] no okay and we're going to go to the low intensity mix use so this is Pelican so Pelican is zoned R3 so you will have the same standards that we were just looking at so same setback same height that's along the beach and then an example of an R3 zoning District on one of these Lots now most of these lots are 40 by 100 um some of them are 80 by 100 oops but that's what a 40 by 100 looks like with the setbacks and then an example uh from that area of a building that 44t and then some pictures you do have a mix of development you have some single family duplex Triplex and then you have some of these um older beach bungalows that are being rented out nightly rentals all right I will start the timer e e e e e e e e e e e okay is everybody about ready yes yes is everybody ready thank you I got it I got it working dog shame all right oh God we're first okay you ready all right we would like to leave everything as it is written it looks fine by us as a current height per code perfect and the setbacks are just fine all right we agree too but there's one exception there's there's no the street guys there's no sidewalk there's no sidewalk there's no sidewalk so they they need a sidewalk on the street side that that's the only thing I'd be concerned about that's that's a that's a good point J we were just talking about that as a because here's the problem look at that top right picture there's little Bungalow rentals you can't put a sidewalk in because in they hand no place to park right so what we were thinking about is what what if just a what if what if that became a one way and then we can widen it and clean that up a looks like crap behind John's P commercial this disgusting figure out some type of garbage garbage collection something uniform but that's a different topic but that could be an interesting um one way yeah cuz it's dangerous when you see people walking around at night to those all those hotels it's scary for them so just a thought and then you can find a way to put a sidewalk in if you limited that and shifted it a bit dumpsters enclosures don't get Megan going back there she's going to jump on you about don't you I already have the microphone dumpster I am actually um working with Waste Pro um Marcus you I was going to come talk to you I um I'm going to put in power and install compactors down there this will remove all the dumpsters that are on Pelican that are disgusting uh my plan is to install three compactors back there so everybody's going to have to share um and then I will have one over there by Cades for that area so I already have that in the works yes and they will be pretty they will not be ugly good well Grace I have to wait on Duke Energy so um oh no we're we're talking this year um the power is already there but I have to install single phase install pads and then they go in so I'm going to say four months it's probably going to be two two months for Duke Energy yes um yeah you say clean up Pelican uh lane behind commercial just just one point of concern is that if we do keep the code the way it is as written um you know and all of these little Bungalows and everything else I mean it could turn into like a concrete wall like that very large single family that's going there is that correct if am I understanding that correct okay okay I I I personally think it's a little too high for the character of that area um I would propose it to be a little lower at least by one story so around 32 feet Yes building Cod if you use it differently if if you use it differently um then there's it can be four stories like if it's got it has to have like a a bathroom or a usable kitchen there's some caveat in there there but ideally then it's not a single family home it's built out for something different so there's there's some occupation rules around that yes so okay anyway the first floor is parking which is 16 feet right and then three stories above that is what I'm seeing all across my block and but that's being used that was done so what's that total height like like first floor parking and three stores above I don't have a problem with but it it just seems there's like that fourth story that you know is very uncharacteristic of the area that's there now yeah 32 ft yeah I would say the current structures that you're seeing going up the single family homes I don't know if you've seen them I see them because I got six of them right across the street from me yeah but I bet you they are near 44 feet total okay because of the first level parking parking is high because of the flood yeah because it's 44 above the first floor of parking correct now oh no ground to the top yeah yeah I don't have a problem with 44 totally but you know 44 on top of that first floor because I'm assuming that's what that's where we measure right that's what I thought exactly yeah so like a total structure of like 54 or 55 feet or something like that from from the ground something like that right that's what I thought so we have on their lower height something like 32 feet that's what I would propose okay and you're fine with the setbacks stabilize the setbacks okay so I think everybody was good with the setbacks all right I think we got everybody any additional comments nope all right we will move to traditional Village so we're going back to that C1 zoning this is all commercial um setbacks in the front are none this is from the property line side is 10 feet on one side the rear is 25 ft and then the height from DFE is 34 feet you just made some examples there of what the height 34 feet and then the setbacks and a lot of those rures On In traditional Village um were built before the current modern zoning code uh we didn't we were having a hard time finding building plans trying to see what is the actual height there so we did find one plan that shows the elevator um by the brewery and so that is 31t 1 and 3/4 in from design flood elevation as you can see it looks like the top of that roof might be about the same might be a little bit more but about the same so just to give you an idea of what 34 may look like that one's 30 31 ft and you can see it here in this picture all right and I'll give you 10 minutes Marcy for the businesses in that area they are allowed to have the businesses on the ground floor correct yes this can be flood proofed if it's commercial you can flood proof the ground floor Z you man get out drink so did that's where I follow a lot of what's the point of respect sh AB langu abouts op Tre other courtesy it's good to say the same word in the definition you def because it is it's very important e e e e e e oh okay are we ready you look ready yeah I know this table's ready okay we're going to move right along because I know that we're getting short on time so um that table want to go first all right Jeff all right traditional Village here's our thinking on this one because there's no setbacks in between the buildings right now we think there should be zero setbacks in that District just there's none there right now um other things so we're good with with the front being zero the rear being 25 especially if you can work in sidewalks in that backside there and then the 30 the 34t seems normal on that one with one condition we believe and I think everybody believes that we need a parking garage structure in John's Pass and the city owns a big piece of property in John's Pass so we would make a recommendation that we like everything to take away the side setbacks with the exception that if there were to be a parking garage built there it should be maxed out at six floors no higher than the hub's parking garage that's there right now from a character perspective and then give the city that flexibility because if you keep 34t there just only the exception would be only for a parking garage in there so that's that's what we suggest there and then we are um with the design standard to make sure that it has the design guidelines so it looks nice because they wrapped that nice one the hubs by the hubs one that doesn't even look like a parking garage with the retail stores around the side of it so that's what we think camouflaged yeah all right all right we were good with everything the 10t sideb back on or setback on one side for a sidewalk I mean that's there now it looks like so a lot of these properties let me see if I can show you so some of these properties are combined like this is 120 by 100 but then you have like your 40 by 100 40 by 100 um and those are all contiguous there's no setbacks so maybe like a 10 foot on one the corner lot that's what we're referring to yeah yeah on contiguous structures it makes no sense to have setbacks none at all but if it's a corner lot then having 10 on the side on one side if a sidewalks is needed or maybe a little bit of Green Space yeah absolutely and then you we were talking about the parking garage a little bit we were like no more than four stories because now we're over towering the village and it's going to look totally out of place alth yeah even that looks out of place to us it it really does I know I know we're losing money with Los but but something like you'd have this like monster looking down at the traditional Village and I don't think anybody would want that I mean it's tough to Envision what it would look like sitting here yeah but that that's just our opinion on that then I mean it was brought up that four stories okay yeah yeah four stories just for the garage right yeah okay yeah and and what the the the best the best I've been tried to do this here for many years I mean I right up how many years ago this this this garage but all the time they turn around they keep on ranting in the space there to the T-shirt people so I never can make it up they don't make a sense to have a t-shirt shop I know we make money there but the the reality is if they spend three and a half million dollar to build this garage four four story I I age a four story with the one under the ground be five parking five floor parking now you got don't forget 7 to eight years you pay the parking for the the rate they go right now on Mad Beach believe me at 350 an hour or you make make a deal to the shops there and and and and get things together to pay 225 to $0 a week 120 a month for the people that work on the mad beach there on the village give them a deal it's 120 bucks you never had you just you know give give them a deal but then you got something close to the Village put shops on the bottom like cross the way across the street there more income for the village for the city the whole city benefit there not just Village the whole city so why not have a nice four story decorate nice just like the hover I didn't see nothing wrong with there or if we can come up with a restaurant on top and go one more story and decorate with trees and flowers and balcony it's it's a plus for the village okay next great the uh the rear part uh setbacks we think should not be more than 10 ft uh specifically at the VFW they they will lose property uh buildable property if that happens at 25 and height height the height is 34 feet is that what it was listed 34 ft it's fine 34 and all the other setbacks front and side uh sides side 10 is that right Z except for the properties okay all right um he mentioned the the the VFW is uh is that mean that they're non-compliant right now um that it sounds like they would be legally non-conforming well we didn't we did I didn't have that information uh and if that's the case I would I would agree to decrease that setback as well that rear setback yeah yeah okay so other than that we we were okay with the sorry so but other than that we're okay with the setbacks with regards to the height we're okay leaving the strip of businesses at 34 but in the event that because we had the parking discussion that a parking lot is BU we want to we don't want to restrict that uh we we put a number on it though we said 44 feet 44 okay only only for garage only for a garage in the Triangle there okay what yeah oh sorry we just we we'd like the the I should have specified that the 10 foot one side on the street ends okay only we not not cutting a hole but not in the yeah not with a cut not with a not cutting through it right yeah where there's none that makes sense uh I don't want to speak because I didn't we didn't discuss that I personally think that's okay I don't know if anybody else to cover for like outdoor yeah what do you think about that yeah thanks I think I said everything yep thanks yeah just real quick we're good with the 34 um the zero in between 10 on the sides and then I'm okay with reducing the uh the 25 rare to 10 10 and and so would be just 10 on the front 10 on the back okay or actually zero on the front 10 on the back thank you great I think that was everyone okay I think this is the last one so we're going to go to transitional uh so this one can be a little tricky we we have a lot of different zoning districts going on so on the beach side is all R3 zoning you saw that earlier um John's Pass Resort and then Pelican that was the same zoning and then on the east side we have a mix of C4 zoning C3 zoning those look very similar the front is 25 uh side is a a minimum 10 feet and then if you have a wider lot then it's up to 33% of the width um the rear if you're C4 zoning it's 18 feet and this is determined by the water side of the seaw wall uh if you're C3 zoning it's 10 ft and then in the C3 zoning it depends on your use on how high you can go so so it's either 34t or if you're doing multif family or hotel it's 44t or C4 zoning is just 34 feet and then we do have a small little sliver up here that was R2 zoning and those setbacks are front is 20 feet side is 5 to 10 12 feet and then rear is 25t and height is 40 ft there just an example of that C3 and C4 zoning they look very similar um but here you can see the C3 so you potentially based on the use you could get a little higher so 44t um but they look very similar and typically we will see either mix use or um something that could be flood prooof the ground floor so maybe you would have parking on the ground floor or maybe that would be flood proof where you might have a mix of that and then an example of R3 so this is Beachside um GF Boulevard and then R2 those look very similar as well and then we do have in the R3 zoning District um there we do have smaller lots and we have larger Lots so keep that in mind as well that we do have some single family duplex Triplex so making sure that there's something written in the zoning to protect those and then an example um we do have a few PDS uh or just one PD um which is Barefoot Beach so they were allowed to exceed that height through that PD process so they are 63 feet and 7 in above DFE and then across the street over here we have madira Bay and they're maybe a little bit taller but about the same and they received a variance now we don't allow variances for height anymore so they also were allowed to exceed the height and I think the only building that we are aware of um is is it the All Seasons Resort uh which I believe is about like 50 feet above DFE and that was allowed with the previous zoning before the 80s where they met measured from the grade upward so so we have a few taller buildings but in this District we really have a mix of single family duplex triplexes hotel and condos so just keep that in mind when you go through the height and setbacks and then any other special requirements all right and I know we just hit 3:00 but I'm going to give um about 10 minutes and this is the last one all right e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay okay I'm back all right so we are ready yall want to start over here um the um just in our discussion it it appears that the current setbacks are okay the height I mean if there's existing structures they now at 68 ft um you know I'm I'm okay with the 44 feet but um you know there may be something to rectify that maybe an extra 10 feet increase would be okay considering but I don't have much much more of a feed okay 44 yeah I would say like protection of um yeah existing all right next table batter up we're okay with everything that's written there we would like to keep everything with the current code all right especially the heights perfect okay we agree as the code's great I'm we don't see any problems with that it works it works so don't mess it up we we agree with the the current code um as it is however there are three non-conforming buildings and in the non-conforming section of the code something needs to be written there that would protect those three properties if madira Beach Resort is 68 feet that's a new building say 30 40 years from now they have to rebuild they should not have to make it smaller they should be able to build it back to where it's at so something needs to be in the non-conforming code that protects those three buildings that specifically are hit in this area all right and last table is it okay okay uh curent the setbacks current remain retain current but with uh specific regards take a look at landscaping and Design element requirements on that side with the uh with especially with the the multi-use the on that golf side making sure that we are paying attention and requiring some sort of landscaping and design elements with regard to the height uh we're we're fine with 44 feet all right I think that was it okay thank you so next steps are um we do have a boc workshop next Wednesday we'll be kind of discussing this but um we probably won't have time to gather all the information from all of our three meetings for that for that next Wednesday meeting um so from here you'll go to boc Workshop you'll also go to Planning Commission as discussion and you'll see it every month at boc workshops and Planning Commission as discussion items uh we may have some more public workshops it really just depends on um input from boc and where we go from there but then there will be eventually um official public hearings on these so there will be mailers going out it'll also be in the newspaper as ads so you will hear it this isn't just the last that you'll ever hear of this so real quick question um what what got you guys hear the best was it the flyers or the the cards the mailer cards what guys what got you notified about this meeting and got you he the best perfect there's plenty of food left back here so grab some on your way out there's Pizza there's fruit there's cookies thank you take some food we really appreciate everyone coming out and your input this has been great