e all right it's officially 6 o'clock it's that time so instead of happy hour we're here thank you for being here thanks everyone appreciate your attendance so I'd like to officially call this meeting to order and if you would please call our role I'm here gav available commissioner Dylan here commissioner Noble commissioner Connelly here commissioner Maher here commissioner laru here thank you all right thank you everyone uh this time is our time for public comment we of course welcome public participation at this moment if you'd like to address the Planning Commission for any item that is not on tonight's agenda you're welcome to do so uh we would like like you to limit those comments to three minutes please and when you step up to the microphone please speak clearly and provide us with your name and address before bringing up your topic so if anyone has anything to say that's not related to our agenda tonight please feel free to do so at this time Tom Edwards District 1 resident um the one topic I have is that you might want to take a look at um allowing bicycles uh parking that's counting for car parking so when we do developments and you know you have you have a development I'm not talking about any specific one I'm just talking in general and you have 12 units you should have a parking space for every unit but if you gotten six bicycle parking spaces then you only have half that so I I just don't see where we should be counting bicycle parking as regular parking spaces and I my recommendation is to make a recommendation to the Community Development Group that that change in the ordinance the other thing is is some of these developments don't have enough parking I mean they they don't provide for employee parking so that should also be taken into parking when you have developments and then the other thing is there's an ordinance that says that if you have another building maybe 150 ft away to correct me if I'm wrong on that Jenny that you can count that as some of the parking for on-site parking when it's actually quite a distance away from the parking so that would be my recommendation that they might consider making changes in the ordinance to that effect because it's important to have adequate parking and some of these things that are coming up I don't think they do thank you sir appreciate that got a few notes on that thank you okay anyone else would like to say anything not related to a specific item on our agenda all right in that case we'll move along uh Mr TR do I need to do the Quasi judicial statement okay um for any quasi judicial hearings that might be on the agenda an affected person may become a party to this proceeding and can be entitled to present evidence at the hearing including the sworn testimony of witnesses and relevant exhibits and other documentary evidence and to cross-examine all Witnesses by filing a notice of intent to be a party with the community development director not less than 5 days prior to the hearing okay so at this time uh would like to have uh approval of the minutes if anyone is so inclined from last meeting obviously that is motion to approve the minutes from last meeting okay thank you John that a second second thank you who um okay we have a motion in a second to approve the minutes will we please call the rooll commissioner Mah yes commissioner gavahi yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Dylan yes commissioner laroo yes chairman W woff yes thank you thank you very much the miniature approved uh we have nothing under uh oh NOP sorry I almost skipped what we're here one of the things we're here for we're going to new business right now we have one item under new business item a the sanderling site plan 13495 Gulf Boulevard or City please so Mr chair if I can just give you a little bit of um background on this one before we go ahead and get started please um there's a process that we need to follow I want to bring to your attention that there are two notices of intent for people to become affected parties I know I'm going to butcher this name and I apologize in advance Daniel Z did I get that right thank you and then Paul bam they've each um filed their notices of intent a summary of the application is is that this is a site plan application to build a four-story building with eight transient logic units and ancillary uh commercial retail at the property located at 13495 F Boulevard here in madira Beach the standards to be applied are those that are referenced in the Staffing that's section 11048 and 11051 the burden of proof um is the greater weight of the evidence is set forth in section 2-10 of your code in identifying the parties they are Jack bod act on behalf of um the sanderling application the city of madira beach um Mr zala and um Mr bam the order of presentation pursuant to your code is is that the applicant will go first okay then the city then Mr zah and Mr bam I'm going to go ahead and read the quasa procedures that we have to follow at the hearing today this is a quadal proceeding where the Board of Commissioners acts in a quad judicial rather than a legislative capacity at this quadal hearing is not the board's function to make law but rather to apply law that has already been established in this quadal hearing the board is required by law to make Bings a fact based upon the evidence presented at the hearing and apply those findings of fact to pre previously established criteria contained in the code of ordinances in order to make a legal decision regarding the application before it the board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent substantial and relevant to the issues if the competent substantial uh and relevant evidence the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria establish in the code of ordinances um then the board is required by law to find you in favor of the applicant by the same token if the competent substantial and relevant evidence that the hearing demonstrates the applicants failed to meet that criteria establishing the code of ordinances in the board is required by law to find against the applicant um at this time I need to ask each one of you whether you've had any experte Communications with the applicant no I'm not seeing any hands raised okay are there any conflicts of interest that anyone needs to disclose I'm not seeing any hands raised thank you at this point I need to swear in the witnesses anyone that's going to speak at this hearing if you can stand up raise your right hand I'm going to swear you under oath comment folks you I'm sorry I didn't is com I didn't hear that sir yeah they are you going to I'm sorry I'm not an affected party but okay I was I was listing the order of presentation by the parties the public will still have the opportunity to speak if you're going to speak at this hearing if you can stand up raise your right hand and be sworn under oath you swear that the testimony you're about to give is going to be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay so Mr Edward you said yes as well okay thank you all right at this point it's time for the applicant to proceed for to the code I know this is a little bit unusual but that's what the code requires applicant first then the city staff uh will make its presentation it's just the way the code provides great thank you yeah good evening um Jack boak I'm the architect uh I have got my recently acquired partner with me who will put on a bit of a video presentation uh after I run through some of the facts I thought I would run through the the basics first I was fortunate enough in the last year to bring Brit Hayes who was an architect in California uh she was with the Frank giri firm and U at that time she did the Facebook Center uh out in U in Seattle and uh if you're familiar with Los Angeles at all she did the Grand uh uh complex down across from the Disney Center which now is a landmark downtown a 40s something story multi complex type thing across from the Disney theater uh Center so um pleased to have Brit with me she's going to do walk you through the uh the slides and all that and give you some of the particulars I'll give you the basic background we're here about 13495 Gul Boulevard uh which is at the intersection of 135th and Gulf Boulevard the site is Zone C3 and is approximately 23 Acres almost quarter acre uh it was recently the veterinarians Clinic that was moved out of there and the proposed plan that you'll see tonight was an 8 unit complex uh eight units above a small retail 14500 square foot uh space downstairs the uh owner could not be here tonight he uh had made a presentation the other night to the U the uh at the neighborhood meeting and and uh made some pretty interesting commitments among which were that he has no intention of the roof deck being open to the public none whatsoever he um is primarily if you'll remember the place the location is next door to the um the event space uh that the girls have um gosh I'm sorry we did the building I forgot the name the West event the West event yeah and um he figures that he'll get a certain amount of wedding traffic off of that but he intends to keep half of the units and sell four of the units uh which will give him to somewhat continued control he uh does not want any he he says look where there going to be weddings that come in that will stay at our place and they'll use the rooftop but he planned on keeping a very strict um restriction on noise uh as far as music and not to rent uh not to do any outside events on the roof so I know that that was a clear concern at the neighborhood meeting and I think he attempted to put everybody at rest about that uh other things about the site it's um as I said it's Zone um C3 and it's an ae10 Zone uh and the way we're laid out we have the parking on the first level with the the retail small retail space we have a single elevator going up to four units excuse me three units three units and two units uh so I call it three stories over parking with a roof deck uh three living floors over parking um that's about it at this point I think I'll turn it over to Britt and let her walk you through the slides and um and look forward to working with you on this hi my name is Britt Hayes uh happy to be here and share some of our uh work on the sanderling um I just acknowledge you to direct the slide through or was there a um as you know the site um we're on Gulf Boulevard at 13495 uh at our neighborhood meeting we were able to speak with many of the neighbors uh in the adjacent properties uh everyone seemed to come by that lives locally um can go on to the next thank you um here you're really just seeing the Veterinary Center that exists as it is in the west events on the south end next uh for the design for this project uh obviously we started um attempting to understand how much we could fit on this site what would be appropriate in terms of parking to comply with the codes um we actually studied nine units but settled on eight units uh in this proposal um so as Jack mentioned we've got three units per floor for the first two living floors and then the top level has uh two units and then there's a deck above next here's the site plan uh that shows the lowest floor so we have about 1,700 square fet of commercial space um two bathrooms already shown uh there's no tenant yet uh selected or under contract in any way are discussing this site yet but the intent would be a small restaurant or ideally um that's what the owner would like to see here uh to serve the community something a little more upscale um than is common in this area um our parking plan you can see um fits 13 spots plus our bicycle parking um the access is still the same as it currently is generally to the site you have one curb cut on Gul Boulevard and you have uh an access to the alley it's a oneway alley so that circulation pattern remains uh to what is already there and then it's thought that most most people are going to come in obviously from the parking level or off Gul Boulevard there's an elevator and a stair near the alley at the back next um our landscape plan uh we attempted to utilize as much as the site as possible that wasn't um going to have parking or uh our front restaurant space there's some outdoor seating that's planned but we're almost providing twice as much buffer in landscape uh as is required by the code and we're obviously using native species things that are um comp you know work well at this Beach location uh for the and you can see here actually all that landscape planned along the front um three large palm trees and sea grape trees are planted along the back and sides uh and that kind of outdoor patio at the front um for the design we were really taking cues from the ocean bringing some subtle curves trying to do something that's distinctive um that's uh warranted uh for such a high-profile location and and not just you know Bland architecture so it should be a special thing to add to uh the the Aesthetics of your Golf Boulevard next please um still the floor plan level one not much more to discuss here you can go to the next um here's a typical floor so as I said we actually by density could have done larger units but these are really nice units uh a lot of balcony adjacent to them two large bedrooms uh meant to be attracting families uh to the area and you can skip two slides here I think the top floor just shows three uh larger bedroom layout three bedrooms for each unit in this configuration next and then here's the roof level uh that Jack mentioned there's a couple straight shade structures to provide cover a little area for people to prepare their own drinks or food with a couple sinks and that's about it um for the roof deck and here you can just see that from above some mechanical space as well we're trying to buffer that um surrounded by elevator core and bathrooms and you can go ahead and flip through just a couple more views here of the building we're trying to take care to develop each side of the building so we're a friendly neighbor to All Views you can keep going okay that's it thank you all right anyone else from our applicant good all right now the city's turn all right good evening uh my name is Jay steerman and I'm going to walk through this set of slides that I prepared with staff and hopefully not uh be redundant and cover things that have already been covered by the applicant so here's the location again um I want to just highlight the adjacent land uses and other businesses that are in the area um you can see the seab breeze Beach chill in TI the KN beach weddings um the West events as Jack mentioned before and these are some views of the existing structure on site the view from Gul Boulevard this is from the corner of the intersection looking Southeast East this is from 135th looking South this is a little bit further back as well this is the best view of the rear that you're going to be able to see um from the existing structure and so it's in the C3 resale commercial Zone and it's in the r future land use district and it meets the um permitted uses it's a currently commercial and it has an one apartment unit upstairs so it's vertical mixed use and the applicant proposing the temporary lodging and the restaurant Cafe as as they discussed before there's the rendering again here's all for together this is the ground floor plan that also shows the uh dog walking area there on the on the North side which is going to be uh artificial uh artificial grass second third FL plan fourth Flor plan this is another view of the roof deck and this shows the elevation and that the uh the lowest horizontal member is elevated above DF per FL plane uh regulations and this just walks through some of the standards to get a sense of um what's being proposed uh you can see the setbacks we'll talk about those in just a little bit um in regards to the variant and you can see the lot coverage the impervious area the proposed green area and we talked about the height and the density and this breaks down the air conditioned space the biddable space and the gross floor area as well so the variance uh 202 24-3 was granted in towards the end of April of this year and what it did is applied one to the rear and side setback and as well as a granted relief from some of the landscape buffer requirement so the rear setback uh was pushed to 6.5 feet which is a reduction of existing uh structures non non-conformity as well as the side setback along 135th a was uh set to six 6ot and then the landscape buffer uh you can see here the locations exactly of where this variance applied to it was really to accommodate the parking spaces there on the Alley side um in order for them to uh to fit in and then you can see here that the the dumpster uh was screened as well and so that vertical wall um from that dumpster that is what is encroaching in the required setback so really that rear setback is really just to accommodate that screening wall around the dumpster and here's a closer view of the setback on 135th Avenue and you could see on the right side there that's the survey of the existing structure which shows a 4.8 ft clearance and on the left side you can see the comparison between the existing structures setback and what the the variance granted and you can see that's also a reduction in non-conformity compared to the existing structure on to the project scope review so the the lot size the set ax the coverage um all of that meets the code and same applies to the arrangement of structures the impact on surrounding property reflects the adjacent usage along Gulf Boulevard where it's fronting the flood plane regulations have been met uh the parking has been met as well and uh the only uh only thing that's different from what you see here is that the uh the ADA Compliant parking uh the access ramp that's depicted on the Civil plans um staff is doubtful that that's going to conform to Federal standards so that's something that the um the applicant will have to rework and and see if that can be brought into compliance but as we talked about the traffic access has been met as well same goes for The Soil and Water Resources and the drainage plan and the Landscaping as well uh meets and exceeds U many of our standards as well um and also references the variance that we discussed the irrigation system as well will be um reclaim if possible and F further on it actually meets the tree protection standards as well as the lighting um all the lighting will be a turtle sea turtle compliant uh where applicable uh it is visible from the beach side so uh having sea turtle compliant lighting is definitely a priority the sidewalks and the signage is also met with City standards and continuing here uh we discussed a bit the the fences and walls um all of that is compliant as well uh docks and seaw walls are not applicable and lastly the concurrency determination we uh don't anticipate any concurrency issues uh with the project moving on to our parking and Landscaping so this is our parking breakdown um that lays out exactly how many parking spaces are required for this project and how many have been provided you can see that there's a variety of um uses that are requiring a certain amount of parking spaces and that parking requirement is being met in a variety of ways as well this is the Landscaping plan um as I mentioned the the irrigation Source uh is designed to be reclaim if possible and we'll also have a rain sensor uh to shut off so that way it's not running the sprinklers when it's raining or uh when it doesn't need to be and this is just a a little bit of an overview of the of the lighting as we mentioned um sea turtle compliant lighting is a is a priority as well and this just shows the stormw water Vault location that's proposed and that brings us to the the finish here and just a reminder uh these are the options before the commission is a find that our requirements of the review criteria provided in this division have been met and issue a final development order B find that all requirements of the review criteria provided in this division can be met with conditions specified in writing and issue a preliminary development order which requires final technical review comme review as provided in this section or C deny the application based on a determination that the proposed development even with reasonable modifications and conditions does not meet review criteria set forth in this Division and City staff the technical Review Committee recommends approval of the site plan um with the condition that the uh Ada accessible route is brought into compliance with um Federal standards and in all compliance with our with our codes so we would recommend um approval pursuant to Item B and you're asking for this staff report to received into evidence as well as the slides that have been presented tonight yes I am okay thank you thank you all right we have two affected parties Mr I forgot how to say is zala zala Mr zalla he gets to go first because he filed his notice of intent first there you go go that's up to you whoever wants to go first we're fine there's only two of you I'll let you flip a coin I'm good with it either way we're on the beach we do it you whatever works hi my name is Paul bam I live at 13500 1 Avenue or First Street East and uh we live kind of adjacent to the property uh that's proposed going in um we've lived there for seven years it's a new development that has been put in it's an Eco Village it's solar it's uh eco-friendly uh very nice Community it's not an HOA so we don't have the big hoopla about some things but we do have some hoopla uh one thing that is concerning to me is a lot of traffic patterns that we're seeing with that six West you know sure it is great nice venue perfect you guys put in a crosswalk now that people won't get hit by the car going over for the beach party or the wedding or piters or whatever they're going to do uh what we're having problems with is the parking the the cars coming and going out of the alley if there's cars parked on 135th adjacent to my home on the South Side there's a trolley bus that comes around the corner from the the west side or the east side and he tries to cut into the alley and he can't quite make the turn because there's cars parked there well so they run down the alley in between our homes which is kind of a a private access or supposed to be a private drive and some of the neighbors aren't liking it which I don't mind as long as they don't sit there and idle and pick the party up uh but it's creating a lot of traffic and problems with the neighborhood with people not liking what's going on so I guess I'm kind of a spokesman for my corner inside of things and I'm seeing the same thing um I guess the few concerning things is you know they're they're talking a little bit of a restaurant in the bottom where are the cars going to come and go and park on for that restaurant to get food sure they're saying it's going to be a lot of walk up it's got a lot of dine in D out because of the hotels and all the you know vrbos around us which you know it's supposed to be a small little uh residential neighborhood but anyways uh it just I'm just trying to to figure out some of the parking some of the traffic concerns when the 6 West has a Party People Park on our side of the road signed State permitted parking only so that was a new deal so now there's permit signed parkings all around the neighborhood to figure out where we can park how we can park when our friends can come over how do we get a permit to park we don't have any idea on some of that stuff but we are getting educated on it we can print out as many permits as we want to park as the way I understand it we'll just park them around the neighborhood so that's what six West has been doing and we're not liking it you know if there's an emergency truck a ladder truck 25 comes through our neighborhood three four times a week over there if there's cars that happen to be at the stop sign and there's cars parked there they're not going to make through if there's a fire burning down there they're not going to make it through there's no parking in the back between our houses sometimes for the VRBO is because of the the accommodations of the people that are there the people are parking on the corner there was issued tickets issued over the weekend there so it's just become a great big Fiasco I don't know what we do about it I don't know how we can handle it I'm not here to argue about it I'm just trying to be concerned about what we can do about making things better sure and now that we have a new building coming in it just is going to magnify that not only the fact of it being built you know we as as we're seeing it's visible from the beach okay well that's quite a hyp deal come out of the back and they got a whole view of our backyard isn't that beautiful not my backyard but the neighbors so there's just you know for the amount of units and the amount of people and the amount of parking if that was full capacity six West rocking and rolling we got parties going on I think it's going to be a great time party but you know as long as everything is abided by the code and enforcement you know we can't even get people to drive by and ticket people that aren't getting that don't have permits for an example I went off to the beach code enforcement was there I said who who's monitoring this over here young gentleman says I'm not sure uh I said well they're parking over there right now without permits in their window he says oh okay I did see in my house camera as he drove by didn't stop so I did talk to Pam the next lady the next parking person that I encountered Pam was very helpful very helpful she's going to take and make sure that people are using their permits and parking the way they should matter back Pam went by the other night with nobody even parked there I thought that was kind of nice so but it's just parking in general and then when the construction starts where are these people going to park where are the restaurant people going to park if that thing was full capacity with three people with one car at each unit and and 26 people at the tables with seven cars amongst the 28 people you know there's more people than cars or more cars than people some or more people than cars it's just it's going to be a lot and if we're not monitor in taking care of it making sure that dogs aren't pooping on yards like the what the vet did you know uh but uh it's become a little bit of a problem over there and if we can monitor it it' be all right if we're not going to monitor it it's going to be an issue that's all I have to say I welcome the building we got to talk with the owners the other night great presentation everything is on the grow growing pains are painful uh it's just nobody's monitoring anything any over here I just don't understand it so thank you for your time and thank you for letting me Bend here you got it thank you sir appreciate your time all right whoever lost the coin toss you're up next all right hi my name is Dan uh suela I live right across the street from the unit in south of uh west of Paul and I've been there since 8 years already and just from the wedding venue already there's High foot traffic uh like every weddings sometimes during wedding season there's a wedding at least every other day with the amount of ballet cars that are going in there they have that lot that's adjacent from West End events but they Park along the street also the little dog park that's by the inter Coastal right um and then the animal place they would always just they bring the dogs on M nor Paul's on constantly so it'll have a pet station but they'll definitely come across the street um it'll just be such a confined space for that many units and um that many people um just concerning okay else was uh just with that many with the Uber drivers also constantly being on that corner as is it just seems that small if it was like the part of the events space he's getting torn down in something more narrower but uh with that many units it's just be condensed that little corner that is all okay thank you yes thank you thank you all right anyone else public comment time thank you do I have three or five minutes I don't know how much time I have just go ahead thank you my name Tom Edwards district one we give you a little attitude there's not a ton of people thank you sir I I live three blocks from this south of that and um the thing I'm concerned about is is parking and rooftop activity so if you got a restaurant or some type of retail on the ground floor you need parking for people who are coming to that you're going to have eight units of residence you're going to have rooftop bar with activity and they're saying bar is only for the residents there that that are staying there that particular night but they can have friends and family come in too so now you've increased the capacity for that and then you have additional parking that's needed for that plus you're going to have to have parking for the employees too that would be working the Rooftop Bar Rooftop Bar usually equates to noise so even though I didn't see the presentation from the other night with noise they're hoping to get some of the wedding event stuff to come up on the rooftop does that mean live music Amplified music you got res residents behind it to the north of it across the street from it you got residents all around there I'm not sure that's compatible with the neighborhood the other thing that happens that people keep forgetting is you have an owner that says we're going to keep the noise out we're not going to do this where's the written agreement that says that and then if at some point he sells the building in the future is there a written agreement that's been you know filed with the clerk's office to prevent that type of activity and I'll give an example you have madira Cantina across at 132nd when the alcohol permit was going to be granted for that restaurant I'm not having any live music here we're not having any Outside Music two owners later we've got music out there so that's your problem people don't think about this is that if the person sells the building or his his units you can very well have that type of noise and unless you consider that and put certain conditions on it you're going to have a problem in the neighborhood again with noise um that's all I have right now very good thank you anyone else public comment anyone no okay so I don't know if Mr Bak has any following you want to yeah follow up uh Jack boak I I just want to reiterate that uh we have no parking on one on 131st uh that was an there there has been some there over the years but there is none in any of our plans that's not counted in our parking count uh we do have parking uh meet the parking requirements for the space included in our numbers just so you know that I know that was raised as a um as an issue um and we keep hearing about the West we're not the West we're separate of them and I'm sorry that the West causes all these issues but um you know aside the only relationship we have with the West is in relation to parking for construction we've arranged with them that we would we would make a deal with them to uh go in and uh rent parking spaces for the construction Crews and that 30 space uh lot that they have down the end of the street so if we did need on offsite parking it is available the um uh the construction um like I said parking is there the I think the big thing is that the there it was called the bar a couple times it's not intended to be a bar it's never going to be licensed for a bar doesn't have the parking to be run as a bar and and the the owner uh I didn't mention earlier the owner really takes a lot of pride in this thing his family settled pelis County in 1860 and he's been on this beach since then uh so uh he does I think he kind of surprised the people when he came in because he was very uh supportive of what they were trying their objectives that they were trying to see achieved and he has very personal attachment to this project and this beach because he's been here his family as I say has been here his name is Chris Robinson and they've been here since the uh the 1860s I believe or 1850s uh in essence the the uh we do have the parking that we need uh the construction parking I think we can assist with even though that's not necessarily requirement uh the West really is not related to us and uh I believe that U the owner has a sincere intent and will I've come to know this guy fairly well he has no intention of running this thing and having it open to the public so um it as we said it would need additional parking if he were to try and open it to the public so I think that is a reasonable approach and I would request respectfully request that you consider approval thank you thank thank you sir actually I can sorry I can answer any questions you may have of you I I do uh you know in in deference to the the bar situation it's not going to be set up for Food Service bar service there's not going to be no it's not in fact um no uh it's not we have he has no intentions of having a bar set up there or somebody running it on the rooftop it's just if you want to go up there in Sun you can do that uh if it's a wedding maybe party that's next door you know for the wedding or something and they wanted to rent the rooms they could uh they could meet up there but not uh you know um I mean the guy really takes a lot of pride in what he does and I wish he could have made it tonight because I think you'd see that he uh he's a pretty um very I can't think of the right term but he's a very U definitive guy of what he wants to do and uh his dream was to find a property like this when he was successful someday which he is now and develop it and have a place down here on this beach that he grew up on and and I think he's a pretty sincere guy so I think that the promises that or the what he had to say to the public that showed up for the neighborhood meeting uh I'm not afraid to repeat because he he has a a pretty good track record of following through on what he does thank you Mr I I have one Sor question a couple questions go ahead a lot of questions will the restroom be open to public yeah he actually is uh it will be and there was an allowance for the parking space is in is in our parking count the um what he is trying to bring in is we did the the building in the um oh boy what's the name of that little coffee shop that everybody loves out there sweet Bernette sweet Bernette oh no he envisions it more as a sweet brette type thing where it's mostly takeout um he's working with um some upscale type uh people to get them to encourage C some kind of a takeout and and sweeper net type setup that's that's his envisionment of what he wants to see go there uh so uh it's not he's not looking to bring in something that's you know uh requ has a heavier requirement than that but the land is what 0 23 Acres it's 0 23 Acres yeah just about a quarter acre and this site allows 40 units an acre for overnight accommodation oh is it 40 or yeah I believe it is 40 as a matter of fact I didn't remember we're we're one un under transient occupancy um and I uh Hotel transient yeah yeah and we we are allowed nine units under the code we have eight well if it's if it's 40 units an acre for transient M right I mean I just want to make that clear is it is it 60 or is it 40 for C3 can look it up um I think 60 alternative temporary lodging units per acre I the um alternative standards I believe it's 40 yeah it is 40 because Point 23 times um the um the be 10 units and uh or almost 10 units not quite 10 units yes I'm kind of calculating backwards basically yeah well we left off um one of the units so we would be able to work the square footage out and we went through all those approval process with the uh with staff so this is overnet accommodation right well it's transient hotel which is so I just want to make that clear is it 40 or is it 60 you know 40 I believe it's 40 because it it was so so if you divide up the land let's say one acre divided by 40 by 40 um you basically get um just did some calcul here so when you divide um when you divide take 4023 23 right so so when we divide 43560 which is one acre yep divided by 40 right you get um 1,89 in other words 1,89 area of land per unit right so when you multiply 1,89 per unit times 8 yep you end up with 8712 8712 yes 800 8,7 site is and the site is approximately 10,000 10,000 and something yeah 11,000 yeah so when you subtract 10,8 from 8712 yep we get 136 square feet you know I'm what don't have a calculator here but we've been through this with staff and and arrived at all right maybe I should ask this of of our staff but but from density intensity I see an issue and I just want to bring it up we we meet the density and intensity and the staff um reviewed that and approved it and uh we do meet it uh absolutely yeah you you you you definitely meet the density but intensity which would have to do with the restaurant we have the intensity we meet the intensity also uh as far as the use of the the square footage of it relative to the uh I mean the staff did review everything and um you know we there we didn't need any kind of we that's how we limited or came up with the square footage of the restaurant could be retail could be you know it yeah I think I'm going to ask questions of but it does um according to staff and our figures which are on the uh the fa on the um um site data table the uh we do meet after the after dropping it back from nine units to eight units uh we had the room for the parking and we had the uh we did meet the intensity and the uh the uh square footage okay allowable thank you okay oops one other one I thought there I've got a few in terms of how do we make sure that there's no entertainment on the roof and I'm not sure whether this is for you you know and in terms of that that if we can put this into the agreement as someone said that it if it gets sold next week to somebody else that they cannot do entertainment on the roof well I entertainment I mean if somebody were to have a gathering up there and have a some music or something that that's not entertainment the the entertainment I think we're looking to Define is enter there's no licensed entertainment like they bring in you know an act and open it to the public or something like that that's the intent well but as you said that you're going to hopefully sell it or rent it to people that are at the wedding and they're going to be partying over at the wedding and then they're going to come back to the units and and of course they got this beautiful place upstairs so they'll continue the party upstairs well I I think that the problem the definition there's no intent for this to be a commercially open to the public thing now anytime you have a that's no different than saying how do we know that somebody's not if we had a pool how what would you say you can't have a party around the pool or if you do or you break the noise ordinances you're going to you're going to get called out on it so it would be in other words I I see the same problem for example if we had a pool area you could come out there'd be people out there you know partying and drinking and they could have music out there you know um I mean I would assume that if there was a noise issue it would come up before you eventually uh but I can tell you I wish that Chris could have been here tonight and Chris is does not intend to run any kind of public okay but best intentions go aside you know in terms of and that's where one of my other things is is he going to stay the owner and so long as he's the owner yes he could be accountable but as soon as he sells it to some else it goes out the basket well his intention is to maintain the management unequivocably he's not allowing the management to go away with uh condo hotel units transient units can be sold to people he does intend to sell a few of them he intends to M remain in control of the project and um you know all I can tell you is that you know I you can make hypotheticals about things I agree and uh there's always a worst out but I think that it is not set up to be a bar a commercial bar no bartenders no it cannot be operated as a commercial bar okay and it's for the use of the people that are there not it came up at the neighborhood meeting the other night they said well uh is is it for the use of other people other than people that are you know staying there overnight and that's what the use is there for you know just people that are staying in those units and that's uh one of the restrictions that he's putting in there he's putting in the docks okay so then it's basically it's going to be a condo hotel well that's what it is of course yeah transient that's what transient uh U okay you know accommodations are a couple other little things so the dog walking area hopefully you would have at least bags in a receptacle as you've got a specified dog walking area so of course he yeah well I mean you you say of course but once again we've been through many of courses and if it's put into the agreement then there's no issues he speculated that I think the other night at the meeting I'm not mistaken well yeah I mean you know in terms it's not that big of a deal I think it's a great idea having a designated thought it a greata put it there you know so but but to take it to one step further have bags in a receptacle yeah I that's fine we can stipulate that that would that would be done and then finally the storm water Vault that's going to go underneath the driveway yeah that's pretty common nowadays yeah yeah you that's why you don't see as many ponds as you used to see uh people are going using storm Tech as as U the other commissioner knows that the uh they use underground means now instead of uh just all entirely ponds well I mean I know the one at caddies wasn't on there originally so it was an afterthought and it got put in the front pardon me and it got put in the front as a wide open area then they had to fence it in so it was never originally intended on the original plans see I I wish we could not be accused of doing I'm just I'm just saying I mean I think that our intentions are clearly called out on the plans it's an underwater system storm and it will meet code and it's been reviewed by the staff so we're not trying to hide anything we're not like trying to say that's okay I I'm just questioning things no I understand but we're asking for approval on what we show and and like I say I'm I'm trying to get everything through in my mind that I had questions about and little things and if you have a stip if you want to make a stipulation about the dog walking area being equipped you know properly equipped that's fine I mean I don't think they have any intention and and truthfully and that's just like I don't think any of the questions or things that I was questioning about would be that big of a deal you know so additional few little stipulations I oh I agree I don't have any problem with that I mean it's you know only thing I'm saying is U to say you know that nobody will ever have any music up I mean they they'll comply to all the regulations be open to the public if it gets out of control to call the police I I agree you know even the as an architect we're very often asked to design you know decks and things into all these uh plac B and sometimes they do uh break the the rules as far as down and and I we can only try to enforce things as you can to the limitations of people doing a reasonable job of meeting the uh the code yeah and I think that's that's a reasonable request and I mean I personally think it looks like a beautiful thing but yet when you have the residents that are you know have some issues I feel that's our job to bring up their issues and get it through and of which one of which like you guys are not personally resolved but parking parking in the city is always an issue yeah well I I understand and when they make a regulation that's something we usually don't try to uh vary from is the parking regulations I think we okay thank you all right thank you I have a couple questions for you Yep this rooftop it's a it's essentially a Sund deck yeah with a with a you're going to need a use permit correct and it's got to have certain occupancy I don't think it needs a use permit unless it's open to the public well it's you you have multiple people using it so it's got to have something there's got to be there's got to be some kind of restriction some kind of code to permit you to use that for whatever reason or what however you're going to use it correct yeah I would you know so the next question is how many people are you going to put on the application that can use the rooftop guests only that are it's a condo hotel so the owners and guests that that are using that are renting the units are the you already said that you could go next St if they wanted to come and party on top of the roof that venue next store the wedding venue yeah could use the rooftop correct did you say that I did not I did not say that I said that they anticipated renting rooms potentially to some of the people next door that doesn't allow the RO the part no please let me finish that does not under any circumstances allow the West to use the their the Rooftop just like any other guest is staying in a hotel they can use the rooftop but the uh if there's a limitation but the it definitely is limited to the use of the guests of that particular thing only how are you going to prevent people from renting rooms and inviting guests that aren't staying there or other people that aren't staying there to come over and party with you you know there's there's also there there's always a chance that some I mean you know the best I can tell you is that I think that the condo dos and the regulations that are in there and the regulations that we've agreed to with the city the stipulations we've agreed to I mean somebody can always break any regulation they and and I think that in good faith we have tried to present this uh the way it is intended to be used and the owner of the thing is retaining units in there to keep control of it and he made assurances to the people in the uh neighborhood meeting that he intended to keep control of it under the plans that we've outlined to you I mean I I think that um you can do no more than we can't restrict things to the great the degree of saying to somebody you're Ren in any hotel in this town you can't say well you can't have anybody come to your room in a hotel you know but I don't the intents not to do this thing this is a Resort that stands on its own it's not tied to the West that's why when people talk about the noise from the West we have we can't control the west and we have no intention of tying it to the west and they they have no intention and the condo docks will will repeat you know but anybody that rents a room can use the rooftop correct can use it of course there's there's your problem I don't see that as being a problem anybody that rents a room if we had a pool could use the pool I a facility it's a Sund deck primarily it's set up in in all the photos as a Sund deck and it's got um you know there's there's no wet bar up there there's no um you know uh it's it's intended for use only of the people now can somebody somebody can break any rule they can speed they can you know uh I I I really think that the intent is well presented that we do not intend to have any um the owner intends not to have anybody uh use that other than the people that are guests there that are staying there all right in your application you have 16 parking spaces did you consider the employees in that uh 16 for the restaurant we considered exactly what's required for that space yes yeah the my next question is have you thought about three over two what do you mean three over two three floors with two parking two floors of parking that's prohibitive and eight units could never well eight units could never no I don't mean prohibited that's prohibitive the cost of costs are so high nowadays on construction we do not have enough room to a ramp would take that entire site to get up a ramp would need 60 70 ft to run to get up that high so if you put a ramp up that ey you'd lose your drive aisles it's impossible to to do something like that on that small of a site I know you followed the code and and so on and so forth but I see a problem here Down the Road 16 is not enough you didn't you didn't plan on the employees uh God forbid I would like to drive there with my wife and park someplace there I just don't see and then you have an event center next door that are going to completely mob the neighborhood with cars in certain days of the week um I don't see how this is going to work well I I have to the parking meets the code AS required now if the city needs to change the code because you feel they need to look at it differently I think that should be brought up and changed but we're adhering to the code that is in place as to the parking okay understand all that well can I please say if if you're saying the Event Center may have a bunch of people there that will affect our they'll affect the entire neighborhood we're not part of the Event Center yeah I please do not include us in the event center for traff additional traffic I mean we comply with every element that we've been that we've been you know that we've gone over with the staff and we have the parking we're required if you believe it's not enough you need to change take the steps to change the code I would feel better if you took the rooftop off of this completely then I don't have to worry about the additional people coming visiting Johnny at his room that he's renting for the weekend won't have a pro a problem with the parking CU I know what happens here um I live here you know I see what happens yeah um the Barefoot contesta down the down the street here had 150 people in like four rooms for for uh spring break and don't tell me sir that isn't going to happen here I I really feel like trying to pick every bad event that you can find and apply it to this site is not a fair analysis I believe we're allowed to have a rooftop we've we will put in the condo docks if necessary the points that you've brought up I think that's a more than fair we should be allowed to work under the code as anyone else and we should be allowed if we comply to the parking to put that number of parking spaces I understand some of your issues but everybody including you just bring up the West we are not the West if you're going to apply the West to every property that's in that entire location it's going to be very difficult to to take a real analytical look at a site you know I'm just we can we're allowed to disagree by the way you know that whole place that Community down there is packed is what is packed I know you know like you take these residents that are here on on Easter or whatever Christmas they have guests their their driveways they can only park in the street okay you know so that's what I'm saying you you don't live here you don't see oh I do live here I'd have been here 56 years I own properties on these beaches I've been here 56 years practicing okay I'm 80 years old almost and I have been here and heard the people back then complain about the people that have moved in since so have you moved in since they didn't want you here it I rest my case yeah I I rest my case too I sorry disagree on this but you know we'd be glad to put in the condo docs whatever restrictions were felt by the board were were necessary to for sure any more questions from our board I know we're good thank you all right on for our discussion thank you uh any of our fellow Planning Commission members like to say anything I'd like to ask a question or two from our staff please so Jenny as far as calculating density and tensity how did you how did you calculate that so we have it right here at the bottom of the screen uh the density is 40 units per acre so that comes out to nine 9.29 and they have eight units of the temporary lodging okay so that's that's the tempor lodging what about the restaurant yes and then the restaurant is um an ancillary use to to that as well so we're looking at the density and then the density does not have uh the floor area ratio tied to it how do you define ancillary use um I believe it's uh defined in the code it's in the code I just want to have it publicly uh stated 822 it is actually it's a permitted use right so permitted uses are retail commercial personal service office and business multifam residential vacation rental temporary lodging restaurants and believe it or not adult entertainment here we go could be worse I suppose yeah um I got an idea for the rooftop subordinate and serves a principal building or use subordinate and area extent and purpose to the principal building or use served contributes to the Comfort convenience or necessities of the users or occupants of the principal building or use and is located on the same law as the principal building or use unless otherwise specified no ancillary use shall exceed 25% of the gross floor area of the principal building or use so ancillary use basically means a a use that is enjoyed by the owners of the the units in other words public is not allowed to enjoy that use it doesn't say that it's subordinate and serves the principal building um subordinate area and purpose to that principal building so it's not excluding public to to that use it's a supporting use to the to the main elements but not restricted to only that I totally understand that but I'm I'm just having a bit of a heartburn so maybe uh we' like to ask the City attorney to give us an interpretation ation uh typically ancillary use does not allow for instance you can't have a signage and you're not allowed to you have public use nobody from public can come and use this ancill use so I have not researched the issue in the code but obviously the code has just been read out loud as to what is allowed and what's not allowed I would not necessarily apply any more stringent um requirements other than what the code currently provides if the if the code doesn't prohibit it then it's permitted so I don't have any really anything else to add to that we're going to we're going to um review this project um as how the code currently reads not how we want it to read um and that's how the courts would apply the law what is an effect as of today I understand that now when it says you use for principal principal use what is what does the code say when it says for the principal use of the building only I I would have the planners go ahead and read that portion of the code I don't have that we're going to go ahead and pull it up on screen so everybody can see it thank you knowing that while you're doing that knowing that this is a different project but the same flavor as the Skyline which has sweet Bernette downstairs right which the the people that occupy the res the vacation rentals there can use the downstair you know can use the restaurants there actually two in that one um but members of the public can go there as well so it's similar flavor to that but this will be smaller apparently as well so as you can see on the on the screen that defines ancillary use there's you several stipulations about what is considered a ancillary use and staff's interpretation is that the retail portion of this project adheres to each of the pieces of this definition subordinate to the lodging it's not the it's not a restaurant with lodging above it's lodging primarily with retail below subordinate area much smaller then gross square footage than it is to the the lodging use extent purpose or use I would apply that to the first statement as well contributes to the Comfort convenience necessities of users and occupants I think that's straightforward as well locate on the same lot yes and uh does not exceed 25% of the gross for area of the principal building or use so I wouldn't I wouldn't read this and see anything that would preclude the retail use from being considered an ancillary use in this context so you're saying it is considered incel use correct and they can have a sign on the building for public to come and use I'm not aware of any any code in the sign section that would preclude ancillary use from having signage this is the only section in the code that really talks about the ancillary use so this is the only thing that staff really had to go off of is this definition of ancillary use okay um one other question as far as uh parking um so if you have 15 ft of a drive aisle what angle parking would you need what what would be the angle parking to meet your 15 foot let's say Drive well we would adhere to our code for that so for but the how wide did the drive drive 24 foot the drive o here is represented at 24 um but I can look up I can pull up our parking table that is 24 no I I measured the the distance from these these spaces up here because the alley is more narrow than this Central Drive aisle um and I do believe it it is it is adequate um to be able to turn out at the 90° angle um it is close but if if it's 90 degree I can it needs to be 24 feet and we only have a 15t drive alley so one it's a one way yeah so so it's an angle I understand but we need to have a certain angle parking whether it's 30 or 45 ft for 15t backup I got you now for the for the alley he's pointed up I do believe that we had that discussion that should adhere to that but we can double check that cross a one way yeah so those three parking spaces that I um had up on the screen uh earlier those are all compact spaces and so the cross aisle which would be that rear alley the one way would need to be 18t and I'd be happy to um show that on the on the diagram with the measurements um to show that it's that it meets the 18 feet that's required for the the back out we could also too have um him turn on the auto turn and Cad and show the maneuver that it that it would work if that would yeah but it still needs to meet the minimum dimensional requirements and specifically that parking close to the entrance is you know that line is right on the property line which gives you I mean even if you go all the way to the Western line of that I cannot read anymore but that parking the the the what Eastern parking that's abing yes that parking to the left right there so um I if you put an 18 foot offset from that Northern RightWay line of the alley right basically would eliminate that parking space no it would not it will not meet Cod I disagree yeah I I would be happy to to review that I know I I was aware of this um these Provisions here and I did measure them from the from the uh Alleyway we actually worked with the applicant to shift these three compact spaces over in order to improve the visibility around this wall of the dumpster here uh to add a little bit more space and so I can uh I can certainly go back and and measure out um and do the calculations to uh to nail down exactly what the dimensions are from the back of this parking space uh to the alley I know that it's close uh my the calculations that I did at the time uh showed that they were compliant but you know I'm more than happy to to re revisit that okay and of course as far as the Ada and and putting that five foot in the back of all those parking spaces I think you're going to change that right Mr Bosak yeah accessibility you're gonna actually who if you look we could have moved that back over closer to the dumpster I know that it measures 18 ft because visualize it's on an angle to that and so even the wide end of the parking space it is a 18 ft and and I wanted to address also the ancillary ancillary to this Resort Hotel is no different than other hotels like um look at the Cambria the Cambria has rooftop the Cambria has uh parking you know and I know the cambri has its problem so that's why the owner was very specific about and we'll put in the condo docks as far as I'm concerned that he that it's not for outside use or we would need at least 20 more parking spaces so this property will be platted pardon his property in other words he is going to sell each unit not every unit no he's retaining uh quite a few of himself yeah because as I said his family's been here for a long time he has a really special pride in the reason he picked this property and wants to develop it and he um you know he grew up going to that Beach right at the end of the street and um I think that um that you know as to the ancillary I think that we we do not have any parking we do not have any intent of using it of opening it to the public at this point I'll we'll stop that if that's appropriate we've moved on past that stuff but thank thank you kind of let it go a little bit there but we probably need to rain it back in and and bring it to our our board our panel's discussion here so um anything else H well I I I really do feel uncomfortable with the with the definition of ancillary use but I mean if if our attorney says that anciliary use means that building could be open to public then it is what it is but by my calculations um you can only build like 500 square feet of ancillary a restaurant if it's not considered in seller use based on my calculations I think in the in that definition if there was one more word in there it would be if the word only came after the occupants and principal building or use only it doesn't say only right so as Mr TR pointed out if it's not prohibited it's permitted right if it's not specifically prohibited and I think that's probably the biggest portion of that ancillary use description it contributes to the Comfort convenience and the necessities of the users or occupant of the pr of the principal building or use if it had the word only then we would say nobody out from outside can come and use that but it it doesn't prohibit that so by virtue of the statute it permits it no attorney here but that's my interpretation that's the attorney I've got one more okay go ah I don't see here anything about the sidewalks in curbing gutter in terms of placing those where they're all drive up right now and they're going to be sidewalks we add city right we're not we can't have him come they're not plans and they were his plans so but they reviewed the plans okay right we just can't have him keep coming back up and doing back and forth right am I correct Mr TR that's correct we should already have all of our questions answered and it shouldn't be this back and forth it's very difficult in a quad judicial proceeding to to control it um because each and every time there's a question and someone has to stand up then everybody legally has the opportunity to cross-examine that witness we'll never finish this hearing if we do the up down constantly so I would get all your questions answered and then close the public hearing and consider um some type of motion okay all right that's where we're at Mr L I do have a question for the city staff on because hearing the public concerns about the parking obviously that's a big issue and I'm familiar with it enough um looks like the condo portion calculations are fine I just I think what did it say it said there were 16 provided but I think I saw I I didn't count 16 was it 13 that was actually provided you get credit for the bicycles bicycles oh oh you get credit for the bikes okay I got you calculations on the bottom standard nine bicycle rack two or three and then compact spaces and 8 spaces sorry yeah um I guess my only question is about the um restaurant portion which is currently a black box we don't actually know what's going to go in there um we're saying we're basically committing to that it's 28 seats and two employees and we don't really know what the actual use is and I don't obviously the site is super difficult to fit more parking um my exploratory question is and just on behalf of what we've heard is if there's a you know a vehicle for in within a development agreement to say you know you know any future ten um which goes above and beyond our assumed two employees in 28 seats um would need to you know I think the terminology and the code is um like shared parking facilities like identify a shared parking facility maybe with the city because there's a parking lot down the street on the corner from there that's a public space area right now um um just to alleviate concerns because right now we're just kind of assuming right right but any of that space is going to be predicated upon getting the occupational permit to use that space which will have its foundation in whether there's enough parking uh for the intended use right it's it's just going to be res it's going to be retail or restaurant from an occupancy from a conceptual standpoint then when it becomes set up for occupation that'll be dictated number of seats and tables will be dictated by the amount of parking that's available yeah but based on the square footage that's what's allowed to be in there if it's going to used as a restaurant okay so the the assumption is valid going forward essentially okay correct all right thank you all right at this point I think I'll take Mission traic advice we'll close the public hearing and we'll either look for a little bit more discussion from our panel members or we'll accept a motion at this time I want to know about the sidewalk and curbs and gutters was that just not put in or did I not see it in the plans so that's the city right away there would be no offside improvements required or asked for without like a development agreement or anything like that they would have to like wherever their cut is it's existing so they would that's what their intent is to use the existing cut yeah based on this there was no modification to the curve cut right correct okay so this so the sidewalk and everything will stay the same correct all right looking for a motion and remember your motion options here which if you need to know them I'll let you know def find that all requirements of the review criteria provided in the in this division have been met and issue a final development order or find that all requirements of the review criteria provided in this division can be met with conditions specified in writing and issue a preliminary development order which requires final technical review um as provided in the section or deny the application based on a determination that the proposed development even with reasonable modifications and conditions does not meet the review criteria set forth in this Division division I make a motion to approve spb 20242 with the stated stipulations that we talked about um we're going to have to clarify that yeah um okay so yeah okay so what all stipulations do we want to have in here so we're not ready for a motion yet is what you're saying um and before we make a motion as a as a point of discussion I think we've had some things about whether there's going to be noise or anything like that I think some of the things we're talking about are overarching issues that apply to everybody in the city um we have code enforcement issues people don't like short-term rentals people don't like noise on the beats and like whatever those those are code issues and and we're missing parking was another big one parking in your driveway dogs doing their thing in your in your yard those are all addressed in other areas in our code and and the code enforcement if it's lacking that's a whole different issue and that's outside of this venue um and I don't think any development that we look at should be held to a higher standard than anyone else in in the city because of a perceived issue with another property um that's one man's opinion and when we get into further discussion maybe that comes up again but you got my point um so I think that if we're talking I know the rooftop thing is an issue you know I think we need to tread lightly as a Planning Commission um that we don't overstep where we need to go and get into code enforcement and and entrench code enforcement into a development agreement I think we need to be careful with that yeah one other thought I just there's no development agreement um part of this project sorry in approval or so at this point the application based upon staff uh presentation and the applicants presentation it meets all the code requirements there's no necessity to have a development agreement um as for the comments that Mr Bak made relative to uh adding things to the homeowner docs or the condo docs I'm sure he's going to take note of that before it gets to the commission but and your if your recommendation if you want to address those the two that I heard where you wanted the parking to make sure that it meets code U Mr gaki Mr mentioned that he didn't think that it met the turn turn requirements was that was that it the 18t turn requirements um and then dimensional requirements dimensional requirements I'm sorry and then question relative to the the dog walk and the bags receptacle I think Mr bodak had made a mention that they would include that in their condo docs so maybe that's what the motion is motion to approve with the condo docs addressing this and the making sure that they comply with the code verification the code yeah and the internal Ada accessible route as well and and modifying the Ada to be compliant accessible rout the Ada parking space and access and would that also include no entertainment on the roof or is that if you're asking a question my opinion is that's a very nebulous subject is entertainment somebody bringing a Bluetooth speaker and hooking their phone up to it or are you talking about having you know the Rolling Stones on the roof I I I don't know where you draw that line um and it's for the use of the occupants and their invited guests I think it's a little out of our scope I think we we have to trust that the noise ordinances will take care of it my point Y just wanted to add some some context as well if I may um from the neighborhood meeting the the owner uh Chris uh he used the words um strict and Draconian when referring to as far as what he would like to impose as the noise ordinance um as evidence to the public that he is highly concerned with the noise level um and he did mention that he would like to have in the condo documents the agreement um that would have a notice of what the noise ordinance was as far as Amplified music the hours and that he desired those standards to be strict and Draconian out of respect to the people around him and I think the the applicants would would recall that that's correct from the neighborhood meeting well condo rules can you know it's a membership organization they can they can decide and the developer as the original originator of those rules can decide what they want to do they can obviously make rules that are more strict than the code they just can't be less right they can you know no Amplified music no whatever they can do that but I think I think that's beyond us to set that standard we have the codes to work within um that's just one man's opinion at this point all right so you're ready for your motion got it figured out yet well I guess I make a motion to approve zandberg SP 20242 with the various modifications that are going to be done by the city and put into the ordinance can I should am I is it appropriate for me to clarify just following um the direction that um that you're going on that Mr Dylan so what what did you want to have added in there the dog B well all of the things that were going to be required all the things that M he said and the um stipulations of the handicap the stipulations of the uh RightWay going around the right so I'm not really too sure and I guess I'm the only one taking a stab at this trying to get all of this stuff we're getting there you know completed and included to be fair to them and to be fair to us that should be all presented in black and white before because everything that's being said is hearsay information you can make your recommendation of approval based upon conditions and those conditions would address Mr Conley's concerns that um you don't have something in black and white as to these issues so the motion would be similar to I move approval of of site plan application the sanderling SP 202 4-02 with the following conditions that the condominium documents specifically lay out the um noise code ordinance as c as it currently exists that the condo docks also require for the dog walk that dogs dog bags and receptacles may be made available um and and that all parking must meet the current code requirements including the ADA requirements did did I hit all of them Mr Dylan that you wanted to do I think you got it okay yes yeah I mean you know that that's okay so that would be your motion yes that would be accept that as the motion okay so do we have a second to that motion please second thank you any discussion on the motion itself anybody need clarification all right so we have a motion in a second please call the roll commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Mah yes commissioner Connelly no commissioner Laro yes commissioner gavahi nay chairman wov yes okay motion approved thank you very much thank you for your time everyone thank you for everyone coming coming in and sharing your evening with us thus far while you go home and get comfortable we'll be here for a little while but we thank you for your time uh we have nothing under item six for old business um item seven Planning Commission discussion anything in particular our Planning Commission members have a burning desire to discuss at this point uh number eight administrative staff presentation the first one is the Mader Beach Town Center special plan amendments to C3 C4 and R3 zoning districts um I hope there's not a lot okay now we're going to talk about something different um so we'll be talking about the madira Beach town center special area plan um and amendments in the Land Development regulations looking at C3 C4 and R3 zoning districts and I know that all of you have seen this slide it looks very familiar just wanted to remind you how the local land regulations work and um what the players are so we're really just looking at the county which is for pelis and then locally um our comprehensive plan and our code of ordinance is so at the county level they have their countywide plan that includes the rules strategies and map um so every single parcel in madira Beach will have three different categories uh one will be the countywide plan category um that's seen on the map I'll show you a picture of the map I think it's the next slide um in the countywide plan this really says overall uses allowed uses intensities and densities and then we go locally um we're going to the Mad Beach Comprehensive plan looks very similar um we are looking at the future land use element and then the corresponding future land use map and so you will have also another use on on a property and that's what the future land use has intensities densities and allowed uses and then at the bottom here the madir beach code of ordinances we're looking at the Land Development regulations like your zoning um and then your corresponding zoning map so at the top you have the countywide plan intensities densities comprehensive plan looks very similar they both have to be compatible and then at the bottom where we have the zoning that's more of the nitty-gritty where have your setbacks your height also includes your intensity densities and allowed uses so the area that we're focusing on tonight is the madira Beach town center so at the countywide plan map that is an activity center so similar to the John's Pass Village activity center it's a different category of activity center but it's still an activity center so it's this blue area right here and then going to the comprehensive plan uh which is our local comprehensive plan uh the future land used is plan Redevelopment mixed use so the kind of this um indigo color right here so the same outline as the activity center and then looking at the zoning map so Land Development regulations you can see there's multiple zoning categories within that area and I didn't pull up this parcel but this is a PD so so a little bit of history about the madira Beach town center um Activity Center back in 2017 the comprehensive plan that's our local plan was amended to include that plan Redevelopment mix use category 2009 the Madar Beach town center special area plan was adopted and that land was designated with that future land use category and then in 2014 there was an amendment to the special area plan so if you go back thinking about John's Pass Village when that land was changed to an activity center we had to adopt a special area plan that special area plan is a document that kind of tells you intensities densities how that area runs um also has has um a lot of analysis within that special area plan so the madira beach special area plan has three chapters um it's similar to the John's Pass Village special area plan I said it has to go with an activity center So within the special area plan very similar to John's Pass Village there are different character districts now these character District standards uh they have different standards so yes you have your intensities uh your densities your units per acre also has an height in the special area plan and those things were never brought in over to the Land Development regulations so they were never brought into zoning and they should have been brought over into zoning so here are the different character districts can see densities floor area ratio is are and then here's where we have the height the stories above BF so all of this all of this data lives in the special area plan it's like connected to it um through like the comprehensive plan but it never was brought within the Land Development regulations Jenny may ask you a question yes so going back to that um that map I guess as far as let's say say overnight accommodation or residential let's say units so you you apply both um units per acre and uh floor area ratio together the floor area ratio and Andrew correct me if I'm wrong it's only for commercial so uh for temporary lodging or residential it does not have a floor area ratio is only commercial for but if it if it's rezoned to a PD and they do a development agreement that uh does that the Count's alternative temporary lodging use standards then it's an all-inclusive F but otherwise it would only be for commercial so that one point2 that's uh it says commercial only I can see that commercial core yeah commercial core so that is I know it's kind of hard to read trying to put everything together in slides it's like this purple I yeah yeah I mean I get that but why would commercial have 1.2 F that was in the special area plan um I can't really say exactly why or you know if you wanted to change these standards I would say you have to open up the activity center the comprehensive plan and the special area plan massive I've never seen commercial to have 1.2 f it is quite large yeah it just like 120% of the property MH yeah got that thanks so this is what's already in the special area plan and then and then with mixed use it's done uh proportionally where you have to allocate the density to a certain amount of lot area and the intensity to a certain amount of lot area um it um and that's for all those character districts unless if it's the scenario where someone does a PD and and development agreement then it's all inclusive thank you so basically what we're doing is looking at the special area plan seeing where these standards were not put into the Land Development regulations and just bringing that up that's the easiest way um um to State it so this is the same table just inputting the zoning categories here on that right side so you can see there's a variety of zoning districts that this touches so these updates are to ensure the consistency between comprehensive plan the special area plan and the Land Development regulations or zoning so just including um those character districts and those standards into the zoning so if you flip to your packet it's a little easier to see we can bring it up as well so we also included the whole special area plan which is quite large here it's going to start on page 92 of the packet okay thank you Tom you're welcome okay so as you can see here it's including that plan Redevelopment mix use um stating that it's the R3 also has a plan Redevelopment makes use as a land use and then Activity Center at the countywide plan um also including town houses as permitted use and you'll see this in a few of the other uh zoning districts as well and then also including now this isn't in the special area plan but the open rooftop uses similar to what we saw earlier today that if you were going to use your open your roof as an open rooftop use you would have to get a special exception special exceptions have to go to the special magistrate they're voted on at the special magistrate uh it would be a notific notification of all Property Owners within 300 ft so everybody would get mailed letter um and then you could be an affected party so just some way that the neighbors could have input on open rooftop uses and that's for any type of use whether it's town home yes that's how that's how it's drafted right now this is just a drafted discussion so um obviously that can change but we we thought it was important to have some approval process for open rooftop uses since we see that um a lot and it's an allowed use right now but doesn't really have um a way for public input all the time um this is just one way to allow that use um with a public hearing and allowing the neighbors to give input as well I might suggest an edit to that um that it be if it's if the um rooftop area is accessible by more than one unit right I mean if you think about a town home do you if town homes are permitted but you have a rooftop deck for the town home that's technically only accessible by that individual unit because there's firewalls and everything between it so if there was some sort of a common area like we just saw then maybe a special exception permit a special exception use is required a good but I don't think it would make a lot of sense to require a special exception you used to go before the magistrate if you're talking about an individual unit that is only accessible by that unit to that rooftop or a single family home or a single family home that has a rooftop amenity do you think do you think it' be worth specifying I agree with that yeah for for commercial use yeah but I see the common element issue that we you know we saw it just now right and so even if it was a residential if you have multiple units somebody could congregate have a party so just like what we saw earlier there's I mean you can't stop me from having a party at my house either in my backyard around the pool until it gets too noisy and then code enforcement gets called or whatever but so that would apply to any of those single unit access we know we're more likely to see in a common area situation EXA right okay right is there any way that this could be put in front of the planning committee as opposed to just the Magistrate not that comes off of to the top of my head I think this is a good place to put it because it's a use and so that's where you commonly would see um when somebody comes in oh we're going we want to propose this development okay we look at the uses we look at the um accessory uses we look at the special exception uses um I can't think of any other section in the code that it would that it would trigger um or any other areas and we're also through this madir Beach town center um special area plan and putting it in the code we're really just looking at those R3 C3 C4 zoning at this time well I think I saw somewhere in here and it might be in the Town Center thing where all of the ones all of the districts had roof access I believe I mean this doesn't not allow that or not permit that it's a way to permanent but requiring it to go to public a public hearing or um to the special Magistrate okay I can't find it right now but I'll if I can get to it um but I mean you know but I guess it goes into the thing of where we were seeing before in terms of if we can take care of this before it it you know becomes public and public the biggest issue with all of these things is the rooftop noises I mean you know so I don't know as to whether or not if this is the place to put it in here that you know to some extent the magistrate is a legal person but he doesn't live here he doesn't have to deal with the city citizens and you know granted he does it what's legal but yet is what legal is right and if all the people don't care for the noise and you get into the thing of you know putting stuff into documents well okay so does it really happen and I'm just trying to figure out is whether or not if we can put some teeth into this at this point it then you're right back to a Code Enforcement issue well we need to help code enforcement to do less enforcing well but it's already there I mean it's it's already there in the in the noise ordinances do do we have a certain decibel that we have to go by for noise ordinance yeah after 10 p.m. it's 20 DB uh on weekends it's 11:00 p.m. I think same decibel level and and that applies to every zoning category I mean you can't be in nuisance to your neighbors and especially you know waterfront properties are especially bad because sound carries across the water ask me how I know so so I wanted to bring up the criteria for special exception uses in our code just to show what's what it if someone applied for like an open rooftop use what they criteria they would have to meet I'll go back in addition okay I just want to see the variances okay one get cick it's mostly that c that just goes to section 110 um oh here we go that's this is this is the section I was looking for yeah that's what I was looking for so here's what it it has to be a permitted special use that the use is so designed located and proposed to be operated that the public health safety and Welfare inconvenience will be protected that the use will not cause substantial injury to the value of other property in the neighborhood where it is to be located that the use will be compatible with a joining development and the proposed character of The District where it is to be located uh that adequate landscaping and screening is provided as required in the Land Development regulations or otherwise required that adequate off street parking and loading is provided and Ingress and egress is so designed as to cause minimum interference with traffic on a budding streets that the use conforms with all applicable regulations governing the district were located except as May other otherwise be allowable for plan unit developments if a variance is also desired and or required a separate application shall be submitted concurrently with a special exception application special exception use will not Grant to the land more privilege than the best use available in a Zone where that special exception use would be a principal permitted use no application for special exception use shall be considered by the special magistrate until the applicant has paid in full any outstanding charges fees interests fines or penalties owed to the city by the applicant or the owner or possessor of the property under any section of the code so I just wanted to show what we have already in place with a special um if someone applied for a special exception use and then staff will go through uh for the variances and special exceptions when we go to the special magistrate we write up a staff report and we specifically go through all of those standards does it meet it why does it meet it does it not meet it why does it not meet it so uh the special Magistrate's really looking at that as well as properties within 300 ft will be notified um of that potential of that application okay what else you got okay we can go go forward with the other ones um and then we'll we'll add the if accessible to more than one unit um let's see so you can see here and all the sections look very similar so we had to include here if your properties in this type land use category with the conference the plan or if you're in the plan Redevelopment makes use so you can see that language and you'll see in all the sections where your density is slightly different and then so this is the R3 which there are three different character districts so if you're within the plan Redevelopment mixed use category of the comprehensive plans the madira beach um Town Center Activity Center um then it separates it if you're in this character District you're Den is this you're in beachfront District this is your density Peninsula District this is your density so you'll see this in all of the zoning how it's broken out it's a little bit more wordy but um we cap we try to capture everything this appears to be lowering density in some of these districts yes so it looks like from 18 it's 15 yeah 15 units per acre is the max resident density throughout the town center and then um but then you can see some of the temporary lodging goes from 50 to 60 or 50 to 30 um or in that Peninsula District you know instead of 50 it's 15 so there's a variety of some places it's increasing um but this was in the comprehensive plan this is in the special area plan so we're not making changes to that document it's just bringing those standards and putting it in the plan in the Land Development regulations which should have been done when it was created and it doesn't um increase above the the current maximum in the R3 Z District we uh with alter temporary log standards we reduced from 75 to uh 60 uh last time around with our or ordinance update so it doesn't any of the places where it's 60 it's it's that's what the current maximum is um with a development agreement so doesn't change then you can also see in the height um in that table where um they just said x amount of stories above Bas flood elevation so it's just bringing that language in here if you're in this land use category and in these uh character districts that's what it is um is that base flood or or design flood it had it as base flood even though we measure as design flood that's typically 3 feet above oh we're four four feet yeah we're pretty high good for insurance exactly um and then you'll see here's the floor area ratio so that was also in that table just bringing those over um as well as the ISR and now the red is what you're looking to add to the existing correct yes if it's underline then it's adding if it's a striketh through then it's removing I guess the only increase might might be that uh that commercial core um f but previously and for for C3 it was the 1.2 before we had to reduce it elsewhere to the 0.55 so it would be restoring it to 1.2 but within just in the the commercial core part of the activity center so it so it was 1.2 previously yeah outside the areas where that were the Count's retail and services or our commercial general or residential office retail we have to reduce uh the commercial F to 0.55 if you remember all of when we touched all of the zoning districts last year I think it was like near the end of last year that's what Andrew's talking about when we realize oh we're not consistent with the county let's fix that basically what Andrew and I are doing are trying to just go back in time and fix everything so fix everything that we um that we see that comes your work cut out for you yeah yeah there's there's a lot so then is this area going to kind of become similar uh to John's Pass Activity Center the restrictions and all that stuff that we're going to be going over next but but this is going to be the next step care of um it's very similar so how John's Pass Village Activity Center how we had that application with the county to change it to Activity Center land use and then we did it in our comprehensive plan um Chang that and then we're kind of at that last stage of putting it all in the zoning that whole process that's what happened here but I don't know if there's a consultant here or there just wasn't staff planning staff basically it went to the county Chang the activity center and then at the comprehensive plan changed to that PRM mixed use which is basically like John's P Village changing it to activity center and then it just stopped so we're picking up okay this should have been in the Land Development regulations let's put it in now they should have done it years ago but okay so so then basically all the all the stuff that's in here um the black is what's in place and the red is what we're looking to add to to make it the Special area plan and bring it up to standards Yes except for the open rooftop uses and that townhouse those are I think the only things that um we really wanted to get that rooftop uses some sort of um hearing and notification so we thought that was important we're also writing that into uh you'll see the next item um into the draft for the johnp pass Village Activity Center do we have any incentives for developers to do more than code do we um not really in this you'll see design standards and guidelines in the John's Pass Village Activity Center I would say if in the future um doing something like that in the special in the um madir Beach special area plan you'd really have to go back into the special area plan for madir Beach town center revisit at that relook at that um and then bring make changes to the special area plan and then bring it into the Land Development regulations well one way certainly we can do is to lower the density however we can bonus density which would still be under penol County's reg regulations so alternative temporary lodging standards we already have that for the Town Center um the alternative L new standards they're adopted if you reone to a PD um I guess the big difference between the Town Center special area plan and the John's Pass one is kind of the Town Center one incentivized doing a PD and a development agreement while the John's Pass one we've kind of De incentivized resoning to a PD but there's still an incentive to do a development agreement if you want to go that path but we what we wanted to avoid was the issue with Town Center is the PDS were kind of like oneoff deals where you you just wouldn't get consistency throughout those character districts which we didn't like so um instead with with John's Pass we we want to keep that underlying zoning intact but if a developer wants to do the development agreement that process would still exist but there wouldn't be a rezoning so you'd still have to keep your height and your setbacks and so every project in town center will be PD um if they wanted higher standards if you wanted to go through that alternative temporary lodging use standard where you get the like the bonus um temporary lodging you have to reone as a PD I mean that that's why like Cambria is more than that that three stories over one floor parking and like it had had to be reson but that that's the way it seems like it was designed was to basically incentivized to go through the that process to do a PD but with John's Pass we're not doing it that way so that's and then also with f down John's Pass it's an all-inclusive f for basically everything down there um where it has to be mo both the density and the F for for all uses on the property well and then there's two well I mean you know we all know about the beach beach maker eight story uh going in the triangle and then what's is there any other existing stuff is level level rocks have an existing PD on it yes it does there's a development agreement in place there right yes there is so are there any others in place um know that we that you that the city knows of uh we can go up to the map I can just kind of show you oh oh did I go we included the zoning and future land use map so we oh it was in the presentation no I just missed no it's not didn't we add scooner on on so you can kind of see here's like the level rocks what you're talking about that has years ago development agreement PD and then this is all one project yeah right here so this is all this was all reone PD together and has a development agreement together and that was in 20 17 actually both of those were rezoned it's been a while can you put your mic on and because I I can't hear you over here yeah and I I'm sure the public will want to hear you too um I think you made a comment when I asked you about lever Rock how long the uh agreement was and I think you said 20 years or or the the state law allows them to to go 20 years to perform on their under the statute there you go but in this particular case for Holiday Isles that's how I refer to it where the old leverx was there is a development agreement and an approved development order um but every single time that there is a hurricane or some type of emergency declaration um the permitting has been continued and I think we're up to 2029 and 2030 now is when they're going to expire so it's um it's a long time and unfortunately it may get longer because every single time we have a hurricane they can for continuance yeah it'll continue to push it so is that um something we should have in our mind for future development agreements um that I don't know if we're going to be able to control that though because we could have it in our development agreement but the state statute allows that timing okay yeah extend it so we wouldn't be able to control that until the legislature changed that statute okay yeah I mean like a no hurricane continuance Clause there you go right I mean that we can't do that no okay but at least it's not 20 years it's five years right better than I suppose start 201 yeah well you got that there you got that going for us so um all right it's it's a while for sure as we're here I've got a question about okay so so the red the maximum Building height is now all new yes if you're within if you're within this area and then depends on what well it's 110 232 page 94 of the mhm so this is pulling these standards right here you can see in the table and this is copy paste from the special area plan where it says stories above BF yes so that's new because the the character districts were not in the code before yes right so so if we're looking to and guess you're looking for the input I mean you know I I think rather than three stories do a an actual footage rather than three stories because if they build three 15 foot stories above parking there is an overall height restriction right yeah go back here so you would like it to be uh well I mean you and just like you know have have a have a number as opposed to stories because they could put in 15 foot you know it it is we were kind of stuck with what's in the special area plan uh I mean we literally just took the work language words for word from it for each character District Unfortunately they they really shouldn't put the height limits in the special area plan because anytime you change it it has to be a comprehensive plan Amendment so that means you have to do all these additional hearings it has to be sent off to the State and you got to jump through all the and it I I don't know why they put the height in in the special area plan instead of in the zoning because because elsewhere as you can see it's measured in feet from designed flood elevation which is how we have it set up everywhere but for some reason in the special area plan it was this and that's what we had to take from it unless if we do a comprehensive plan Amendment and remove it or change it okay okay so I guess I don't understand my my page that's all red so is that all new or just what's underlined so it was 44t currently we didn't I didn't like the wording of it and I wanted to clarify it was from design flood elevation so that's why I crossed out where it said 44t here and moved it up there so it's in red but it's still the same content I just crossed out nothing changed if you go to our definitions it specifies it's measured from design flight elevation the previous the previous said which is now stricken no building in the R3 density multif family sh exceed 44 feet in height but he what he's proposing is to change that language to read as is underlined okay right now I understand okay yeah and some of it um is just making sure the wording is consistent right so you'll see that too there is a lot of red but we're also adding kid lot of red the future land use category of the comprehensive plan that's a long that's a lot of words but so people know where to look for that future land use instead of what is this I don't know all righty only 197 pages to go I know it was a large packet so you can see in the C3 uh it looks very similar including that plan Redevelopment makes use as one of the future land use categories and then the activity center and the comprehensive plan uh tow houses that open rooftop uses which will change um if accessible to more than one unit and then you can see here yes there's red but is just making sure that that language is consistent with with the rest of the language since of within it properties in the commercial General um and then including that plan Redevelopment makes use the density intensity the heights lock coverage ISR that should have been red um spelling out instead of CG commercial General and going to C4 very similar um including that PRM an activity center town houses open rooftop uses if assessible to more than one unit um bringing in that pmu future land use category the density uh the height lot coverage and the ISR I think that is it and then we have the whole entire special area plan so in here so if you wanted to read through that yep we're welcome to but it it's pretty lengthy so um that is all that we have for this item there a lot of changes but it's pretty straightforward just bringing in uh the standards from the special area plan into the zoning okay make sense to me any other questions for them on this particular topic before we move on to the next one public input yeah we didn't do public comment you're right let's go ahead and do that now Tom Edwards uh district one I've been resident here for 44 years so I've seen how the city operates on a number of things if you allow open rooftop uses to go for a special exception in R3 C3 C4 you're opening up Pandora's Box and I'll tell you why you can use the example that you just had with the sanderling that you just passed that you recommended so you go ahead and have four people rent units there and they got the big event at West Vents and they do the Beach come back and party and then they come back they can bring their friends and family so if you got 75 people there you're going to have all those people they can invite as many as they want Up on the Rooftop 75 people Up on the Rooftop there's no Management on site to regulate it and that's what you run into problems with these is you don't have anyone they can have all they want in the condo rules but who's going to who's going to go ahead and say whoa you're going too loud with this music think about the neighbors there's no one there to go ahead and regulate it and you're going to have the same problem if you allow this to go ahead with the open rooftop and you got places like the Barefoot Beach Resort that had a development agreement and had they could do some things development if they did the rooftop the development agreement expired now they're going to come back and try they've tried to come back in with alcohol permit request and they withdrew it if this opens up here they were going to do alcohol and and beverages up there and again they said well it's just for our guest but again you got friends and family you got you got the college crowd comes in you got a lot of noise that's going to occur open rooftop equals noise and the residents are concerned about that let's go with Cates they just came back and they were trying to go ahead and expand their alcohol permit to the beach okay and the residents when that came up before in February 2021 had some real concerns with the noise that it would create and it was passed that they could only go ahead and serve alcohol on their impervious surface and had to contain it in the building then you got the owner just did a newscast a while just a month ago well we're going to put chairs on the beach and then he's inviting people to go down to the beach they've had loud mus they've had live music there underneath and it was affecting the neighbors one of the neighbors came in says it was so loud we couldn't even carry on a conversation and they were living in the condo next door you really need to consider this I don't think it should go to a special magistrate I think it needs to go ahead and get public comment and go to the Commissioners let them make the decision lets them hear the public comments if you go to a special magistrate he's going to say well you know you got 10 people out come and maybe seven are totally against it and yet the the applicant brings in some people and says oh we're all for it how's he going to vote there's no criteria so I think it should go to the City commissioners if they want to have it come to you all to listen and make recommendation but let it go to the City commissioners to make a decision I think this is totally wrong putting it in like this where they can go to a special magistrate talking about noise I was in law enforcement for 4 years I can tell you the noise ordinance stinks you're using the county standards we used to have a noise ordinance that says if you're being disturbed and you're more than 100 feet away from the property then the the deputy could take some do some action you go ahead right now and you call for Deputy for noise meter there's no one in the city has a noise meter I've talked to the deputy well Sergeant has a noise meter talk to the sergeant I don't have a noise meter we can get someone one time the person was up in lgo they have no idea the deputies how many people are certified to run the noise meters and how to how to operate them you get base sound you can go ahead and I have people that are 250 ft away down on the beach and it's the base that carries and you'll you'll get in the house and you hear Boom Boom Boom Boom you don't even hear the music you get a wind coming off the beach from from the Gulf it's going to carry that noise blocks away you have um the Schooner they were wanting rooftop activity and they're talking about we can put up some baffles and stuff I've even had the had the architect say well we're going to put some up but yeah we aren't going to be able to take care of every noise of course they're not because the noise is going to carry with a strong wind Cool Wind It carries across the water you're going to have the people complaining you got residences in the R3 that will be affected greatly with that so please consider that some of the things I made a comment to and I suggest that you don't let let them put this into the special exceptions views I think it's wrong thank you all right we can move on nobody else here to get public comment sorry I forgot it the first time around uh okay so we can move on to the next topic up for uh discussion the John's Pass Village zoning draft I've got one that as I was just going through here Coastal High Hazard area in the Madera Beach TC area page 187 257 permanent residential dwellings okay I don't I don't understand what that uh I think this might have been one of the stand um or questions that they had to answer for the county yeah that's in because when we had to do our special area plan for John's Pass Village um was different but we did have a section of coastal High Hazard area and then there was I think eight or 10 topics that we had to address based standard on the proposed density and the land mass that was there it was was perceived that there could be an additional 257 units placed in a coastal High Hazard area and that was of concern and then it was addressed in that a lot of the land is under public ownership so there's no reality in which you could get that extra density because of the land that's owned by the public yeah that's what it looks like and this was for Town Center not for John's Pass this is a different so would this be Rock Park area that if they I I'm just you know what could be Tom and kitty Stewart Park well no this is all in the um Madera Beach town center special area plan so it would have to be that yeah the U yeah here all this we're it we're sitting in it okay got that good and a lot of the special area plan uh um when we were going through this and as we were going through it with John's pest Village um there are different standards and formats that and questions that um we had to answer to the county so that looks like that was that was one of the standard questions okay so going to John's Pass Village Activity Center don't have a presentation um you all should be familiar with this so very similar to what we were talking about before uh the land was changed into Activity Center at the countywide plan changed to Activity Center at the comprehensive plan future land use and now we are looking at the zoning Land Development regulations it's very similar in what we were just talking about So the plan going forward um to make this easier we plan to rezone this entire area to one zoning category and then having this appendix D to break out all the character districts and within each character District you see the permitted uses accessory uses special exception uses um Heights are different um densities and intensities we can just kind of scroll through so this is the beginning so this is page 199 of your packet I know that you saw this last month I don't think there was any changes from last month the only change that you might see is the definition intent and per definition intent purpose and intent up here which is just from the special area plan right yes I think that was the only change well here now as we're getting there here's where I see open rooftop use open rooftop use open rooftop use they're in every category which as a special exception use like what was being proposed in in the other ordinance so so can't we put some teeth into this I mean that we're trying to put it into all these areas and special exception this is the time to to do that yeah absolutely you want it to be written differently this is the time to do that um well in terms of having more than just the magistrate hear it if the magistrate okays it I think the planning committee should also okay it which gives residents more chances or more opportunity to speak their peace currently under under your code that's not permitted the only entity that could address an order that was entered by your special magistrate would be Circuit Court you're basically going through a quadal hearing you're having competent substantial uh relevant evidence provided and decision is made based upon not only what the applicant is providing but what city staff is providing and everyone in the audience he's going to take that into consideration and make a decision so we can't be having you second guess a quad judicial hearing for a recommendation to the commission so either he needs to come away from the special magistrate making the decision um and giving it to the commission um or leave it leave it like it is in other words do you want to politicize it because if you take it to the commission you're politicizing it or are you leaving it with the special magistrate and he's going to rule based upon the law and the evidence before him that doesn't mean that the commission can't do that but there's a tendency when it gets to the city commission level there's more pressure to do what the public wants versus what the law requires so I've found in things that I've dealt with it's a lot harder to get something past a special magistrate than it is a commission as well and this still have to go through the same process that Andrew brought up before with all those um requirements and and the alcohol license would still have to go through the commission so I mean even if they got the special exception use approved it still would be up to the board to decide on their alcohol license and what restrictions that would have or if they would not approve it if it was if the air if the business if it was a commercial business if they were going to sell alcohol then it would have to go through the commission for the alcohol license okay well I'm just thinking in terms for like two things Cambria nobody thought Cambria was going to be as noisy as it is and then the Barefoot Beach Club you know when they have music up there you're up eight stories and the music goes very far and for the people in the John's Pass District I I think this is just opening up you know Freedom where yeah I I'm not sure as far as what the legal ramifications are but but citizen wise I think that's where the citizen should have a little bit of say but if it's not legal I don't know what to say no citizens definitely have a say at the special magistrate hearing absolutely um and so um he's going to consider all of that and when the special magistrate is considering approving or denying he also has the ability and he has in the past um approve with conditions so if there is some in particular that needs to be addressed the special magistrate has that legal authority to do that so will receive that input so the public definitely has you know a say in what's going on they'll be noticed of the hearing they'll have the opportunity to be there speak yeah okay and then of course I guess to reiterate this everybody in the city could be a person of interest I'm I'm trying to think what the exact term is affected party affected party so um yes and no there is this what we call the Renard decision and the Renard decision basically gives us the guidelines as to what is considered to be an affected party and I I'll quickly grab that for you and I'll explain so to be an affected party the Florida law requires the following factors to be considered the proximity of the party's property to the property to be zoned or rezoned or in this case special exception use or not the character of the neighborhood including the existence of common restrictive covenants and setback requirements the type of change proposed and the fourth thing is whether the party is among those entitled to receive notice under the zoning ordinance so you're supposed to take all those things in consideration to determine whether or not they're ad adversely affected party so literally most of the time adversely affected party is going to be within 300 fet of whatever the property is that is subject to what is going on it could be farther but if it's farther than the than the normal notice requirement it would have to meet these other requirements so so adversely affected party is the terminology you were looking for well okay so I I live in the middle of District too I mean yoso but yet I'm not within 500 feet of any things that would be going on but yet I hear John's Pass John pass music down my Canal all the time I mean you know so I am definitely affected by it but yet I'm not within the legal uh footage so you still have even though you're not would not be considered an affected party under the code and under the statute and under this Renard versus Dade County case that I just referenced you still have the legal right as a res president to come and speak you just don't have the legal right to present Witnesses and cross-examine that's the only the real distinction okay so it would be the three minute three minute um or whatever public comment or whatever the chairman or the mayor gave the person to have the ability to speak this particular special magistrate he he he doesn't watch the clock yeah no he yeah he's he's very good and that's where you know i' I've been to many of them and they're very good but yet you know I didn't know as to whether or not where where the legal boundaries were you know and I heard definitely have the right to speak and if you needed more than the three minutes or five minutes as normally yeah I'm sure he would allow you the additional time I would always suggest that if he's looking for the city attorney's position we always want to hear that if it's another minute or two minutes or three minutes let's finish it unless it's dup duplicative repetitive whatever the terminology you want to use everybody standing up saying the same thing then yeah maybe not okay thank you also like to point out that right now it's just an allowed use so this allows a process for that where right now there there isn't as we just saw earlier tonight only thing really restricting them right now if they come in for an alcohol permit but other than that that as as Jenny said it's an allowed use and we don't have as long as it's within the height yeah and is an allowed use or necessary use then our code doesn't doesn't stop it doesn't refer to it so even in the previous list of things we just went through we adding a restriction yes by calling it out as a special special exception require absolutely yeah you you have to because that's what just happened was we just had come forward and we're like well we I mean we we can't do anything about it right it's an allowed use right they don't have to go through a special magistrate for it at all this would throw another big hurdle in front of it to be able to do that yeah because at this point all we're is the alcohol process where if they applied and they did include that then we could bring them up well in the minutes uh you said X Y and Z that you wouldn't do that there and and then we' say we wouldn't support that because the intent when it was approved was that was not going going to be a use but not all of them will apply for alcohol permit just like what we saw earlier so this is a way so that all of those uses all of those open rooftop uses uh and we'll reward it similar to what we were just talking about in the previous um that they would have to go through that hearing process everybody you know the 300 foot um notification as well so that's an additional step to where right now we don't have that it's just an allowed use if it's within the height exactly right so we're putting trying to put something in place great okay you got another yeah go ahead so when you have a wedding venue like that they can have a vendor come in with a temporary alcohol permit they can set up and serve their people Up on the Rooftop so they don't have to go to the beverage Department to go ahead and have an alcohol permit for that site they can have one that has one and you can set it up for temporary use and that's what happens with with a lot of wedding venues so it's it's something alcohol makes people talk louder more no ways just something to consider all right thank you okay and then just stop me if anyone has a concern comment um like something else rewarded so I I do have one question if a project needs to be approved by let's say this board and a and a city commission and they want to do a rooftop let's say would they have to go before the special magistrate and then come before these two boards you're saying if they if it was a something that came before us that also had a rooftop oh that it would also you know they it was a um you know just what we just went through they wanted the rooftop special magistrate first is that right it would either go through the special magistrate first or would be contingent contingent a condition of approval by the commission it would have to be one or the other we I think we would always push for the special magistrate to review it first because if that doesn't do it doesn't address it then they need to modify their plans before they come before the commissioner for final approval that makes sense yeah I'm imagining it like a variance just like tonight they app variance you don't see it until their variance is granted and then it goes otherwise it's a whole move point exactly okay makes perfect sense okay um other than that uh these are really just copy paste of what's in the code right now um building Site Area requirements very similar there's some areas that it slightly changed just from Andrew and I looking at um all the the lots and what's already developed and then if we want to go to [Music] setbacks um any questions comments on these I know we've gone through them quite a bit so yeah um I don't want to waste everyone's night but but it is important John's well I I believe and I'm trying to see what the green area is that went down to 34 which was I guess per our recommendation and per the um uh meetings that were there and uh that is on oh pelican pelican Lane so Pelican Lane so you'll no longer have to lock for those huge huge buildings um a lot of the low intensity mix use um a lot of those are the same setbacks we can go to the the height as well but uh a lot of these setbacks on the R3 side so the west side of Golf Boulevard are I think identical or very similar um for the setbacks and then the low intensity mix use which is Pelican is R3 so a lot of that those setbacks are staying the same um I think the only change with the some some like the low intensity mixed juice we add it required a step step back step right yeah because we we don't want big big blocky building so we're requiring step back trying to break that up you see that in a lot of other activity centers um and Zoning throughout pelis County well everywhere um just trying to break up that big block appearance so um the front setback let's say if you have two if if you have if you're a property at a corner you have two front two streets would you have two fronts and two sides and no re or would you consider the secondary Street to be a different value we have we have a for some districts we require side setback if it has a side street I think the traditional Village that's when we require setback uh just scroll back so here we go so in the traditional Village for example if for lot of a side yard along the street the side set back must be 10 feet along a street um so that's how how we dealt at least with that one and and elsewhere they have side yard setbacks that was just um just kind of down there because you have the the buildings very close together but we don't want them right up on on the side street I think it's 129 step back it looks like it's only the primary facade yeah the building yeah that or I guess of a building facing or bordering a public rideway so I guess if you had if it was on a corner it would be both it'd be both yeah that's like looks like how we set it up elsewhere okay so it would be both both sides yeah I've got a question in terms of okay the setbacks with transition and the rear yards Waterfront Lots on Gulf Mexico landw of country to the cccl line what what's the criteria of owning the property or going to the CCL line I know you can build to the CCL line but if your property is not to the CCL line and I'm just looking at one of the properties on let's see well okay there's quite a few of them on the well by what's this 131st well it's both ways so 131st they they've got the property that it goes further but the CCL line is Inland but then there's a couple of the properties north of 131st that don't own to the CC line I pull up the property appraiser map because I I I can't I can't visualize which properties we're talking about so well I mean you know I know we talked about that the CCL lines some of the original buildings go past the CCL line it moves that's right it moves moves okay let me just let me just pull up the the map because I'm I'm just not going to your your DED and your the plat is going to Define what you own go and if you own shy of the control line then your setback is either 18 or 25 ft in the rear yard if you own beyond the CCL the cccl line then your setback is based on where the control line is yeah so and this I I pulled it up with the land use if you own beyond the Coastal Construction Control line then your rear yard you can't go beyond it right your your setback is 18 or 25 feet but not beyond the coastal control line there some people on to the high water mark and it could be 100 feet from the Coastal Construction Control line but you still can't build beyond that Coastal Construction Control line and they don't get any density because Beyond so the activity center B boundar is cut along that Coastal Construction Control line and beyond that is Preservation which doesn't have any no density so so they don't gain so honestly even if their property line goes all the way out here they don't gain anything from that the the density intensity comes off of the actual buildable land well if you go up to 132nd Street so a little bit further up there um 131st 13 are you talking about this yeah there's three properties right there four yeah well I mean you know three three looks like residents mhm that according to what I see the ti the land is only 104 feet but the CCL line is quite a bit further towards the gulf well they have land use off of it the activity center is cut along the so it it does have density intensy off of it um I I I don't know the history of why it doesn't show because what I don't know what the surveys would say for these properties but the setback would be based on the lot line in that case yes that correct yes and if if the rear yard line let's say it's let's say 20 feet and the Coastal Construction Control line is 15 feet then you still have to setback from the property line because that rear setback line should still apply right but if the property line is Way Beyond the setback requirements then Coastal constru Construction Control line would be exactly where you want to put your building right there is an old Coastal Construction line and new Coastal Construction line and some of those houses were built where the old Coastal Construction line controlled at the time so that's why you might see some variances it's it's based on what it is at the time of the application for the permit no it doesn't matter what it was 100 years ago it matters what it is today when they come in for a permit so if they're looking for a permit I mean it doesn't matter what we're doing now like we can't control the control line and we can't make anybody move a building but if a new permit is applied for these are the setbacks that are in place based on that day's Coastal Construction Control line location uh and the setbacks relative to the lot line okay well all right great where else you going thank you we'll be sending this off to Ford pelis because they're required to review any Land Development regulation okay um and then we can just go through really quickly in case if there's any other comments that pops into your head um this is the densities uh just reflect beat those to death pretty good I know reflects what's in the special area plan um and then the height down that changes from last time S I couldn't hear the low intensity mixed use is is 34 feet I think that might be the only but I think we changed that prior to prior to this so um let's see FS haven't changed yeah these are all from the special area everything's basically copy paste from special area plan alternative temporary lodging use how to use it uh nothing's changed in that uh we'll put in these figure numbers not XX and then the design standards and guidelines um really no changes from last time so what Andrew was saying this has to go to Ford pelis we'll also have Mr tras review this um and then think that's about it we'll see if we get any comments from Ford pelis um and then bring bring that back y okay that's all that we have good everybody good you have any any other questions or or comments just make sure to email us so we can do that before uh we bring it for for public hearing all right I like it okay so that covered that little topic we had master plan as item C what do you got there oh sorry I forgot that we had that it's been a long night uh so we had our first master plan it was just an update we had our first master plan Workshop oh let me on the web can show this is the website and um the interactive map it's too late for Andrew for us a long there we go so we we have a a web web website and interactive map that kimley horn uh made to made for us that um that the public can uh um also you can I linked it to so you have a fullsize page also a little easier to see it so um basically um the public is able to comment on the map and uh wow kimly horn will send us like a um a document of all the comments but uh any um we have comment related to for beautification placemaking business development housing infrastructure resiliency other parks and wck and public space safety and transportation Mobility so any any comments things you like any concerns it's important to put on this map so um because right now um they we're we're in the really early stages of the master plan where they're doing like data collection type stuff so this is part of that and then we'll let everyone know the next Workshop we don't have a date set yet and and all the previous um Workshop from for the pre presentation that the Kim kimly Horn did last week it's it's on on the website um and then okay we have that there work um worksheets and then the the previous the the original um the 2002 master plan too so just wanted to make everyone aware that the website's public all this information is available make sure to go on the public comment map and and put some comments down and spread the dues let all your neighbors know excellent we want we want a lot of public input yeah we definitely need it we when we did it back in 2002 there was lots this room was full a lot uh over the over the new master plan so it was good times uh not sure what ever happened to it officially sort of went off the cliff but here we are so got a crack team on it we'll get her get her dialed in so I appreciate all your efforts thank you all right any questions on any uh other items anything else we need to bring up for the good of the nation we're good all right so our next meeting is going to be uh August 5th here 6 pm and uh it looks like it wraps it up at about 8:49 thank you the meetings journ