##VIDEO ID:R1lZHTQ00fo## e turn that on all right welcome everyone we'll call the meeting to order for the Planning Commission for the city of medier beach thank you for being here um now that we are in order please call the roll chairman woff present commissioner Cloud here commissioner Dylan here commissioner Noble I commissioner Connelly here commissioner Maher here commissioner lero all right looks like we're only missing Mr luru we have a quorum we're ready to go uh I don't see anybody here from the public so I'm going to skip that whole Announcement Part um the next item will be the approval of the minutes I'm assuming everyone has taken a look at the minutes and if we could have a motion to approve said minutes I would appreciate it I make a motion to approve the minutes as they are written thank you Mr Dylan do I have a second second all right good enough please call the rooll commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Mah yes commissioner col Connelly yes commissioner Noble yes commissioner cloud yes chairman wof yes motion to approve the minutes is passed thank you everyone uh our next item up is new business ordinance 2024-the anyone here from the public to make any comments so I'll not invite the people that aren't here uh so we'll just move right over to the city's portion yes uh good evening so in front of you is uh ordinance 20 24-18 plan development um this ordinance um cleans up some inconsistencies uh with the PD uh section of the code with have uh and with the for penel countywide rules and and madir Beach Comprehensive plan um some of the other most of the other changes were either clarifications or almost like house housekeeping to uh make sure it's very clear and straightforward what um what what probably one of the most important things is um what when the Planning Commission when they review a PD this uh clarifies more specific like what they have have to look for so basically the job of of you guys if if with the way the would be um so on on page uh 13 so it's talks about the review by the local planning agency what you guys are would be looking for when you review a PD so you got to make sure um it's consistent with the conference of plan and it's compatible with the Jason land uses and then on on top of that you have to make sure so section 110- 388 is the is the application for PD zoning so you'd have to review make sure that it meets all this in this section and then you would need to make sure it meets uh the 110- 393 requirements which is what the Board of Commissioners would be looking at if if you guys vote to move it forward to go to the Board of Commissioners um so you guys definitely have an important role in this process uh to make sure that that if if we ever uh when we receive a PD rezoning that that it it meets Sol this criteria and and that it's uh good to to move to the um VOC uh one one change we did that that's important and why I wanted to kind of point it out is we cleaned up H how the flexibility related to setbacks and height works so we made it much more straightforward to un und understand and what could poten what would we what would you guys be looking for to find it acceptable to allow for slightly more height um the language is us um we look looked at other municipalities in the Tampa Bay Metro area and kind of cleaned it up based on on looking at that but language is pretty standard where basically we'd be or you'd be looking at like see what other um Civic or Community enhancements like ground floor retail expanded a setback to allow for like more green space enhanced Landscaping Sustainable Building practices like the the uh and other design enhancements for example um I think that's a pretty good overview I I also included the left so for pelis um anything is related the zoning that that could impact the countywide rules they have to review so I wanted to make sure that I gave you guys a a copy of the letter they sent to us showing that they reviewed it and found it uh consistent with the countywide rules um we also one of the things we had had to do um is we also had to uh correctly reference the countywide rules including the alternative temporary lodging use standards so if a PD resoning and development agreement are have are referencing the alternative temporary lodging use standards they would have to meet this additional criteria in the countywide rules that that on top of what they have to meet in here so it's it's definitely a lot stricter of a process compared to previously um because I know there been a lot of concerns over the years about how the handle so so we wanted to make sure to tighten it up and and make sure the that uh the plan commission and board Commissioners and the residents um have have have input and control over uh dealing with future PDS so I'm I'm happy they answer any questions or we can go to discussion and you guys could discuss the ordinance um this is a public hearing item so tonight you you guys would be voting to either either move it forward to the boc move it forward with changes or or um not not vote for it so um those would be the three options thank you uh anybody got any comments or questions I do of course okay so is this letter coming back to you that you've already submitted this to the county and if it's done like this they're okay with it is that correct yes sir I think um on page three of 11 which is our in the gray box on the bottom it says number 11 um at the top this is where Andrew was talking about the flexibility standards that are in there I think that's a fantastic idea um it lets us know and and lets everyone involved in the process know where flexibility can be obtained and why and how uh I think that was really smart it a great move uh to do that and I think it provides a lot of clarity instead of guessing at what could be helpful to you know if they needed an extra few feet of height how can we balance that out I think it was a really good move um one little typo maybe and maybe I'm reading it wrong on that same page um paragraph B in red um third line down you've got that same uh the paragraph reads a development agreements required to rezone any property and then it goes on to say at the same public hearing as the resoning comma before the Board of Commissioners has a discussion item at the first public hearing at the rezoning I think that second that at should be another as right I hate to be nitpicky but I just wanted to prove that I actually read it important to catch this off here now then not when it it's adopted just a typo other than that pretty darn good job yeah uh this is a lot so I hope you guys had a chance to you know really go over it and digest it from everything that I saw it looks like it makes good sense it clarifies a lot of the things um that people had questions about in our PD process one thing that I I was happy that that Jay and I did was we uh cleaned up the site data table section um that's on for uh on page 12 um and this really help because one of the confusing things is sometimes they turn in site data tables that are even very hard for us to understand so having it be consistent so we know that it meets these these requirements and there's Clarity is is important um and it makes it easier for you guys to review it also when when you guys get it as um for hearing anymore I had two things one in terms of on page 15 that the minimum of six foot sidewalk but 10 foots preferred is that kind of leaving that too open I mean you know you've got everything so tightly done I mean you know would that be the only reason why we gave some flexibility sometimes prop properties can vary um in in size so there might be challenges with requiring the full 10 foot from researching that the minimum of six is is um is a reasonable standard and and better than the current five foot isn't really consistent with modern planning practices so six is really the minimum you'd want but um I mean I guess we just wanted to give the flexibility just in case if you have like a uniquely shaped property or that where it would be harder to get the 10 foot but we definitely want the minimum of six because five five is just way too narrow and you don't and and you don't really see that much any anymore um like six is usually like what you see is kind of standard does That Sidewalk count in their impervious surface ratio um if if it's on their property then then it it would if it's not in right of way correct okay should it say depending on the city's determination or something instead of just because anybody's going to want to put a six and go okay if I have the choice I'll save the money but if the city says you have to put in a 10 because it'll fit maybe some verbage along that line I mean ALS I mean it's up to it' be up to your like when you're reviewing it' be up to your discretion too if if you I feel like the the the 10 foot would be required I mean you could include it in the motion when at the hearing I it's just the reason why they give a little Flex is just every lot's different in the city so if you have have one that might be more I think 10 foot might be too much in some places yeah 10 foot's like a multi-use trail that's like almost close to the size of like something like the pelis trail Lane that's the size of a driving lane yeah yeah and it gives them the ability to if they can vary between this minimum of six preferred 10 it also gives them the ability to have some um Landscaping in and along that way so the sidewalk does come into six has some Landscaping then goes back to 10 so it kind of gives us some flexibility and to um Andrew's point when it does come before you guys you always have the option to say can you tell us why you're not doing the 10 foot if they and if they're if they can't come with a good reason then we can we can we can put that in there so we kind of want to give some flexibility for the design along there but it should say something that the city determines instead of preferred that just that means you understood um we prefer you to do it to me means we're kindly asking but if the money where you can let's see I'm wondering if we can put maybe or you know determined by the city well or or preferred if possible well that's sort of might be if feasible maybe that that might I think if it contributes to the impervious surface ratio too then it could be a little onerous on on the developer too I don't know this my PL Devil's Advocate you know it is it is a pretty big expense to go from six to 10 I set a lot of court for eight I don't know what you know what do you where do you go with it I mean I six is better than the five we have now for sure um and I think in some place a 10ft sidewalk would look really front heavy how many places have a 10 foot now Andrew I'm trying to figure out where we can add something it it would be like uh currently be five five feet on each side of the street or or what we're proposing is a minimum of six on each side so technically there would be a minimum of 12 feet of sidewalk if you include both sides of the street or 20 feet of sidewalk if you include both the streets and there it's 10 or it's 10 feet on each side are there areas now that have 10 feet just for point of reference we we do have some pretty good and John's Pass Village didn't we measure some of the sidewalks there and some and some of the sidewalks for for the Cambria and the condo buildings are pretty wide i' I've walked them um they're I'd have to see the exact width of them but they they're they're they're built to like multi like almost like multi-use Trail standards because they're they're pretty wide because i' I've walked them but that but six six feet is seen seen is a is a is a good standard to to start from is yeah a lot of this sidewalks are being used as travel Lanes by these electric bikes and electric scooters where they're not really I guess supposed to be because they're motorized vehicle they're not supposed to be on the sidewalks but we all know they are that's a separate issue but the width would give them more room so they're not running into the old lady walking home with her groceries or man I mean I mean thing that could vary if if you were doing something along Gulf Boulevard or or 150th getting the wider sidewalk like a like a like a 10- foot one would make more sense than if but if it was off of a slightly smaller Street than than six because sometimes you try to do the wider wider sidewalks along like a like a four Lane Street versus uh two so that that's what I mean like like it's good to have some of the flex flexibility um but I I mean we could I mean we could add what if we had the language 10 foot preferred if feasible because if it's feasible then then it would be good to push for it but I I just wouldn't want to have it like a scenario where like it's not feasible there but then we have it like language almost saying like it they have to do it even if it's not possible for for a variety of reasons what if we added something that's along the lines of when proposed sidewalk is under 10 ft sufficient design constraints must be shown or explained during the review process something we can tighten that up a little bit but if you're okay with that General tone we I think we can work something up that that'll work okay cool we can definit I like that yep we're doing six well six minimum and then six minimum and and if the design is under 10 if it's you know obviously six or more but under 10 then they need to explain why they can't meet the 10 and what design constraints they're experiencing or why it doesn't work with the site they have to explain that to you guys during the review process accept it or not correct never less than six that would bring in your impervious yeah yeah would option to if they needed it for that so that yeah I like that yeah I think six would be minimum correct six minimum that would be the stated minimum six is minimum a wheelchair is 33 to 30 36 in wide so you got to consider that correct and then they can pass if you break it down and the wheelchair straddles the middle of five you really have no way to get around if you understand what I'm saying I IE six is perfect yeah and that's why that's why it's minimum six minimum six and into consideration wheelchairs correct so no never less okay so there was one other item that I kind of had a thing uh 17 the city manager May Grant up to three one-year extensions can we get that where we have to grant them rather than somebody that's um could be coming and going you know and I'm thinking in terms of that the city manager is not necessarily a city involed I mean you know they they run the city but yet is it you know um somebody that's looking out for the city like us residents and in this position and as example level rocks that's been going on and on and on and evidently it's been approved every year but has anything been brought up again on it you know not not that we are aware of it all and that's where you know this kind of okay so maybe the city manager did that but if it comes back to us every year to redo or or to reup we see it um would we want to do that three-year extension city manager can do up to three years extensions with approval by the board that way he's the one executing or he or she's the one executing the contract but it's based on you guys approval something and I'm not sure legally if there's anything we need to I've never I've never i' I've seen the language you see in here that it goes to the city manager who has the discretion based on like this as this ask for good faith effort the city manager can can grant those extensions and even in here there's a limit to that and then it goes to the Board of Commissioners if it's not still moving I've never seen it come back to a planning board not saying it can't I've just never seen it so that would be something we'd have to verify and make sure there's not some reason for it to come back my guess is per Florida statute and per your code that's not what's granted to you to do you've already you've already had your say on it right and it doesn't come back for you for checkup that's just not part of your your duties it's more of administrative procedure than anything else right I don't see well but then you there no criteria I'm sorry there's really no criteria when you guys foree these things there's certain criteria you're looking at this is a little bit more subjective you know is there a good faith effort what does that mean that might be something different to you know you versus you and then boom we can't get anywhere where the city manager one individual kind of knows what's going on on probably more in the dayto day because he's hearing from different people about what's happening he or she's hearing from different people so I think that's the intent behind it that it's administrative already kind of in the mix but obviously at some point there is a there's a stop you're going to the commission now you've taken I guess this would be you have a year then you get three extensions four years later it should be going back to the the commission um for one more extension and then you know they can address that but there something we could look at I just don't I don't think that would be proper to come back here for that I don't think I want that responsibility and there and there's that um because what if you deny it you know then then you lawsuit City because they're they're in the process it was already approved and now you're pulling it out from under me think there's a lot of liability it's very hard in that respect last thing that you guys are supposed to do is use kind of subjective ideas yeah so I I would say probably not a really good idea well I was just thinking because in terms of that's what St Pete tonight is voting on whether they have the year-long building moratorium that they're going to approve no ST P Beach yeah St Pete Beach I I I think it's important to remember with that St P Beach situation they they allow for a lot higher density height than we allow any anywhere in the city so we're we're a lot more restrictive already and and um so I I I saw an article about it but I once again like I I feel like we we've done a of managing development and not approving things that are um out of out of scale or too dense for for our community yeah and there would be during those threee EXT during each of those extensions there's no change to the plans they they're still adhering to that just like with covid and what happened there people were allowed to continue keeping their permanent application alive that was already issued but there was no changes in anything that you've already reviewed and approved so it's kind of Legally just keeping the permanent application alive um so yeah I think it's in better hands with the city manager because that person is here daily where we're just once a month uh and getting fed what we need instead of out there proactively researching those things it's not it's not up to us to see if there's substantial completion or decide what we consider substantial you know substantial improvements or whatever like the L rocks thing but that that's still in their init that's still in their original PD they haven't gone beyond their deadline yet so they haven't even had to have any extensions I think there's another year left on that right so what Mr TR told me about that because I asked couple years ago about lever Rock it's a 20-year contract and we have no say in it because it's done commercially with the state so all right I tried to to get get them to clean it up because the sand was blowing across 150th and creating problems and it looked like uh a rack and uh if they would just level it out and grass seat it and why isn't that done when you normally when you take down a building and you're going to leave it as a vacant lot we should have in our codes where the contractor seeds it Haze it you know and and and and plants grass rather than it blowing all over and then at the same time somebody used it while they were that lot using it as a a staging area to dump their soil that's probably for another day yeah it's a whole different sorry I got off on I know you're all right you're all right apprciate uh Food For Thought or dirt for Thought um anyway on on this topic I get you know if if you feel the need we can try and amend it but you know I don't know we need to whatever like is that a hill you want to die on so to think so to speak you know um okay so we have one proposed change which would be the language to the sidewalks right okay anything else any other questions good well then you know what time it is if someone were to make a motion that motion would need would need to include uh the amendment as proposed to the sidewalk language yes I approve I I make a motion to approve ordinance 2024-the in section it's going to be 110- 393 yes section 110 393 number four number four number four yep thank you all Al second all right so we have a motion in a second to approve ordinance the amendment to section 110- 393 subset 4 related to sidewalk with any discussion on the motion please call the role commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Noble yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Maher yes commissioner Cloud yes chairman woff yes the motion passes unanimously thank you for for your Lively discussion everyone um we have no old business on the agenda do we have any administrative or staff presentations I don't see any on my agenda any surprises we have the next just go then the next thing is our Planning Commission discussion which is the mad beach Master Plan update so um last last month uh we we met with uh we've been meeting with Kim leorn either um virtually or in last month in person we went to their offices in St Petersburg off of central AV and uh they presented um what they've been working on related to the master plan and in the last couple months we did um we did a public Workshop um we we did a a survey and interactive map they also assisted with doing popup events like at final Fridays and a couple other events and uh we're we we're exciting to see how much feedback we received a lot of people are excited about the master plan and and excited to give input so I I included uh their the the summary document they drafted up from the the feedback they received so I don't know if you guys have read it yet but it's it's a very interesting document and and it really shows how um Kim Le Hon's and and C staff working together have have really reached out and tried to get a lot of input from the Community to uh make make sure we we uh touch on all all the things they they wanted us to uh um look at so um and you guys can discuss it but I wanted to make sure that to keep you guys up up to date each plan commission meeting on what's going on with the master plan because it's important to if if you have any thoughts concerns that we can uh bring back to kimley Horn ask them if they need to change something or look at something uh we're happy to do that and they've been very very impressed with the activity we've had from the residents so that's been really nice to see um and to know that um they're finding it the residents are finding it easy to get to easy to make comments we haven't got really um any negative feedback about the usability of it and so the comments have been been really nice so I have to applaud the residents for um taking advantage of having their voice heard during this time so it's been really good yeah I think that's key to the whole thing is having the accessibility so that the people can be heard and they feel heard and they realize they're being heard I think that's super important and then the reactions to those sentiments should be reflected in what we do as we move forward for sure I think you guys are doing a great job so thank you for all that you're doing um and it looks like we got a good team working on you know working on this draft and moving things forward so as we get to modify that master plan we should be meeting everybody's uh expectations or at least most of most of the people's expectations I think one of the cool things is some of the recommendations that people brought up um about you know the focus on residents as well as catering to tourists I mean so many times we hear people I'm sick of the tourist I'm sick of you know and it was really neat to read some of the comments about you know we should we're a tourism area we should understand that and be okay with it and as long as we if we plan for it things will go a lot more smoothly I think it's really great anybody got any comments uh for City anything you want to add to that Mr CL you been really quiet new guy I I I did have a thought I haven't digested it yet in fact I haven't looked at this yet um but does it have a section in there for flood mitigation which we seem to be a little behind the curve based on my two and a half year observation of being in madira which is less fun than tourism and and amenities and and stuff like that so there is there is a section on here um on this draft under sustainability and resiliency that people brought up it said flood mitigation measures should be uh looked at such as improved drainage bios swes seaw walls Ray streets due to the significant flooding issues noted especially from 140th Avenue to 142nd Avenue between bashore and Gul Boulevard so yeah it is definitely on people's radar and it's it's coming up and we know that's something that 140th Corridor is really between 140th and like 140 fourth even is really an interesting little uh Lagoon at times yeah and we do have the uh watershed management plan we've actually met with the team um few two or three weeks ago um so they're kind of um nearing some points where they're going to be able to start presenting some information to the city so that'll help kind of interweave with the master plan and then we'll have some real data and we'll be a look at some probably pretty interesting maps and things like that it'll be pretty impressive so that that will be coming up as as well great I help with that thanks well you guys are doing a great job and I know it's a lot of work we've been working on all these things for several years and you guys Andrew and and your team and Marcy and your team you guys should be commended for all the great work that you're doing because I know it's a lot U trying to get it tied in and match up with forward pelis and everything um there's a lot of I picture you guys having like a nerve center with all the stuff and strings stretched out between uh you know like a crime scene thing so uh you're doing a great job and you're making it easy for us to Gras too so I really appreciate that so um guys are doing awesome and we're thankful that we're not in the same position as St Pete Beach were everybody quit on the commission except for the mayor and that's why they're doing what they're doing part of the reason there's that that fight about they don't they want to stop they like want to hit a hard reset and they had a paradigm shift in in the way things were going there so now the the power has shifted Three to2 in One Direction versus the way it was before so they're trying to Halt everything and like take a deep breath and figure it out from there so hopefully we don't come to that point for one smad beach is not the one in the news right um so yay for us so anyway uh that's all we' got um on our agenda other than planning for the next meeting which will be October 7 at 6 pm here in this location um any other information materials I don't see anything so uh that will be the end of this meeting I appreciate it this meeting to jour for