I all right we we'll go ahead and get started with the pleasantries and then um Mr laroo will be here any minute now but um by the time we get into anything with any meat too and I'm sure he'll be here so we'll call the meeting in order and if you'll call the role understanding that Matthew Laro will be few minutes behind certainly chairman wof might be the wrong board no just kidding I'm here don't do that to me don't start old people I'm in a mood today I'm sorry I'm sorry commissioner gavahi available commissioner Dylan here commissioner Noble here commissioner Connelly present commissioner Maher here commissioner L Hardy we'll be here in a few thank you so he says well we're anxiously awaiting his arrival um so thank you everyone for being here uh at this time it's time for a public comment I have a long thing that I could read but since no one's here for the public comment but I will say it just for fun uh if anyone would like to speak on any topic that is not on the agenda you're welcome to do so with a three minute time limit state your name and address for the record and seeing none we'll move right along uh the next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes I'm hoping everyone had a chance to review the minutes and we'll look for a motion to approve those minutes I make a motion to approve the minutes as read thank you we have a motion and a second if you'd please call the role on approval of the minutes commissioner Dylan yes commissioner gavahi yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Maher yes commissioner Noble yep chairman LOF yes thank you the minutor approved so I understand we had a late scratch in the first race um for the dawn stock site plan approval um and we do you think we'll be seeing that again uh yes we will be seeing that again potentially in March seeing if we receive all of the items and notice a few missing or yes yes so um we're hoping to get revisions to those missing items potentially March okay well we'll look forward to that I'm sure we'll have a few more audience members at that point who want to chime in on some things um okay so the next item on the agenda under new business Item B is ordinance 2024-25 bring it all right um and everyone should be pretty familiar with this topic this is essentially to add open accessory structures to the code and then fixing a few different um Parts in the accessory structure section but the main thing is to allow Tiki huts and open accessory structures so we can just start at the beginning um and there's a few different things that we we saw staff saw um to revise so we can discuss that as well so starting can start with the definitions um I'll be asking to remove the area of open accessory structures because if you look at the open accessory structure definition it also mentions at the end of that open accessory structures are measured for their area so it's just redundant so um the asking to scratch that let me show you you can all be on the same page I believe it's page 49 Yes actually it's 50 you're this close yeah just a minute I think 49 is the start of it yeah oh right there okay oh perfect timing too yep just so you know the first item was scratched so now we're on Accessory structur the do items been pulled from the agenda and we just started you have a note yeah doctor's note got a note from the Uber driver sorry this is I'm trying to go to page 50 of the packet if you have your packets in front of you I don't know why it's not letting me skip to It Could you type 50 or did oh no ah perfect okay thank [Music] you okay so we've seen this before um so we're hoping that this will be the the last time that you will see this um the Planning Commission will hopefully give a recommendation tonight um that's what we're asking but um one of the few changes from this version We would like to remove the area of accessory structure area of accessory structure right here um just because it's redundant it also is mentioned right here in the definition of open accessory structure um and then another amendment would be in that open accessory structure also instead of meaning an accessory structure contains all open sides um containing two or more open sides instead of all open sides so those are the two amendments here that we are asking um and just stop me if anybody has any questions or comments that they would like to go over why two open sides as opposed to four so we were talking about that uh the enclosed area see right above it means means a structure with walls on all sides so it's either all walls or no walls so when we were talking um internally that there could be say a tiki hut or a gazebo or something that may have one one enclosed wall say to hang something on or um or like a backplash for an outdoor kitchen something like of that nature my thought too was if somebody had maybe eyes and glass during a winter that they wanted to put down two sides to block the wind it would give them that option and we wouldn't have to Define eyes and glass as a wall but you'd have the ability to put that there I think if you had two walls on a on a structure like that in the middle of summer it'd be a sweat box right you right so you'd I think it'd be self-learning if you will but um that's that's kind of where the thought process came just trying to keep the language Syle so you going to write this in as a permanent wall or a temporary wall it would be a permanent wall permanent wall so it would just be uh open accessory structures means an accessory structure containing two or more open sides all right you guys see what we're doing there or what they're proposing okay um and then we're going to strike that other one the area of open accessory structure yeah yeah just since it's also okay in that definition of open accessory structure um I think all of this looks very similar to the last time you saw that the you know the beginning section um building permits required and then the traditional Tiki The Cheeky Huts um where they're exempt from the fled building Cod but they also need a permit for Planning and Zoning purposes uh requiring them maintenance of accessory structures uh things that are excluded from permitting the outdoor storage containers and removable sun shades provide that the pole is 10 feet away from the property line and the pole does not exceed six feet in height and that's taken from um the Open Sky section of the code so that's not in conflict with anything else in our code and then moving on to R1 this looks the same where we did the uh 7 foot side setback and 12 foot rear setback our two is that five foot side setback and 12 foot rear setback R3 is the same C1 C2 C3 no changes C4 um is the same that you saw last last commission meeting um where we have the 10- foot side and rear setbacks and then the accessory structure for working waterfronts which are required by federal or state regulations this keeps freezing um to be immediate approximate to the water's edge um they have to show [Music] documentation the staff and then the maximum size and quantity in R1 R2 and R3 so single family we have the total maximum size is 3.5% of the total land area area that's for the open accessory structures um with a height of 20 ft from grade and then the enclosed is 8 feet by 10 feet by 10 feet high and then this is another thing that we were talking about internally um of course it's it's up to you but just to keep this uh the duplex the multif family use and the temporary lodging use so similar to that single family use instead of 8T for their enclosed accessory structures instead of 8 feet wide by 8 feet long by 10 feet high just having that the same as a single family use it seems kind of silly to have two different standards um so changing this from8 feet wide to 10 feet wide by 8 feet long by 10 feet high so how this is worded up here too um and the same for temporary lodging uses you're just asking that to be the same as that single family use so 10 wide eight long yes and then 10 feet high is there a reason why we say 10 foot wide by by length can we just say 8 by 10 because I guess it's just how it's written right now you can change it definition of width versus length you know depends which way you're looking at it from right yeah but if say 8 by 10 then you don't worry about any of that um and then yeah this looks very similar the duplex and multif family use for the open accessory structures at 3.5% and we have that same thing for the temporary lodging use so none of this changed from last time but we were asking for the duplexes and the temporary lodging uses um for those enclosed accessory structures just to mimic the single family use so they're consistent so it's consistent yeah that makes sense and then and this looks similar to last time you saw this as well in all the commercial zones um being closed is 8 feet wide by 12 feet by 10 feet high and let's see only have two enclosed and two open accessory structures and then you have that 3.5% of the total land area of the lot for the open accessory structures and then the language for that um working waterf front or Marina use accessory structures that are required by federal or state regulations and that not counting towards the number of structures just uh just curious in the commercial zoning the accessory structures would that be a part of f um that would that would be a part of the yeah lot coverage the impervia surface or area ra not but not F yeah it's not habitable space yes so it wouldn't be f it would be the impervious surface impervious surface and then the the lot coverage okay um let's see all of this is just changing this to per the standard but to to the Florida building code um including the construction trailers I can't remember if this was all written last time you saw this so the constru construction trailers can only be on the site if a building permit is issued and construction must begin 30 days of the construction trailer placement and then they must be removed 30 days after the co is issued that just gives us some hard deadlines that we can point to um for the trailers and then they're allowed 5et from any property line and must meet that intersection visibility requirements uh then they have to be REM removed during any named storm event or anchored um by the Florida building code and they are used exclusively for construction purposes are and are exempt from the Florida building code but still have to have a building permit right now our code doesn't mention anything about construction trailer so we thought that this is a good time to include that and then outdoor k kitchens and I don't think that you I don't think that we had this written up last time that we brought this to you so we had the definition of outdoor kitchens in the front section of this uh ordinance so outdoor kitchens may only contain counter space a grill sink and miniature refrigerator and then we have that they must follow the same setbacks for the open accessory structures now the countertop structure cannot exceed a height of 36 in from grade and cannot be larger than 50 square feet in area and the outdoor kitchen must be permanent um if the outdoor kitchen is connected to a sewer line it must have an inline isolation valve electricity must be isolated with disconnects from the primary structure Plumbing lines must have backflow prevention any sewer electrical or Plumbing must be shut off during any named storm event and I went through this with our building official and um he was comfortable with all all of this language and provided me a lot of this language as well so we're going to have back flow Preventer on a gravity sewer is that a no usually they'll have a um like a a gate valve or ball valve okay it has to be below grade Okay so they can make the connection to sink they can connect to it or if they have you know an ice maker and refrigerator or something that has a drain line at the time of storm you just connect it reach your hand down in the hole pH turn off the the ball valve so flood water is not going into the colle system thank you so all sinks are going to have to be connected to a sewer line that's the way you're writing it no I don't well then if if you don't have them that waterers going in the canal a lot of times if it's just gray water it's permissible to drain gray water in your yard so a lot of times people put up you know like a five gallon bucket or a 10 gallon tank put rock around it and let it drain into I mean that's um I think that's even county code that they allow gray water to to go into the [Music] lawn if if you want like an outdoor shower yeah like an outdoor shower same thing if if you think it would it's going to be an issue now do a shower is is water it's clean water unless you're soaping yourself up a sink is taking all the byproducts which is Wastewater and and whatever pollutants are in it and going into the canal we have a problem with that I have a problem with that because the canals and I fight with a lot of people about this 12 years ago M canow was a lot cleaner than it is today and no one has done anything about the environment and if you look at the first part of this agenda it's us talking about water environment so it's got to be mandatory so let's has to be hooked up to the sewer line yeah so I don't want to speak because otherwise they don't have to do it there's no there's no law well then put some language in right some language that says if you're going to have a sync then it has to be connected to the sanary Sewer absolutely absolutely um I mean just looking at that section are we agree with that well I have a question I just talking about this no you you certainly make good sense but let's say if there's an existing house it's been there for 20 30 years and somebody wants to build a little kitchen in the backyard not my problem and how do you connect to sewer that's not my problem yeah I kind of agree with John if it's a kitchen an outdoor kitchen is what's the difference between an outdoor kitchen and an indoor kitchen you know but but you know so you can't have your indoor kitchen drain into the backyard you know it it's kind of a gray area but like you know these kitchens are getting so extravagant you know and that kind of goes into the same thing of I disagree with the two sides I mean an open Open Access is open because lo and behold somebody's going to do two sides and then lo and behold there's going to be a third side and then there's going to be the temporary on the fores side and it's going to be a structure just kind of the slippery slope we all sit here trying to do a job and we don't want to be accused later of not doing the right job and the right job is not to add anything worse than what we already have by doing that allow grass clippings and leav and everything else going in the canal the drainage water from all the construction and so on and so forth your water quality has gotten worse here in 10 12 years and I'm not the only one that says this so by not having an ordinance that mandatory that they have to hook up then we're making the situation worse we're not doing our job for the environment that's my feeling and you can write that in there I mean now is the time well so you could write you could amend it um to say something like if the outdoor kitchen contains a sink it must be connected to a sewer line and it must have an inline isolation valve it's one one solution do I have okay do I have a on this can I like I said in terms of like a kitchen is a kitchen you know and a kitchen is a kitchen correct I mean you know if you want to just have a sink out there it's not really called a kitchen but if you got a sink that drains to a bucket you know that's fine and eventually they probably will drain it to somewhere but having it designated as a kitchen and you know like real estate people a kitchen has to have how many working things you got to have a refrigerator stove and and so I guess maybe what we're getting at is if it has water supply to it it must also have a drain to aore to aore correct you can have I mean I've seen you know the work kitchen being thrown around I've seen people you know have an outdoor kitchen it's really a grill with a cooler you or a grill with a little refrigerator and they'll call that an outdoor kitchen but I think if if we're supplying it with electric and water if it's got City Water Supply then maybe we do find the way to put the language in that if it's supplied with fresh water from the city then it has to also have a drain otherwise you you could have a sink but it would be you put ice in it or you're just you know what I don't know what you're doing with a sink with no water in it but see you know like get your fish clean station I've seen sinks on those they don't have water running to them you know you come out with the hose and hose off your yeah fish stuff and you throw the fish what you're keeping in the sink part you know whatever there's a little impression in there that so you don't like I do wipe my fillets after I'm all done with them put them right back in the bay because I'm not paying attention but I think if you I think to your point if you're if we're supplying it with water you're intending to wash dishes and you're probably going to have soap and detergents going in there it should go down the drain not drain into the water or you know into the yard that gets into the bay I don't think you're GNA have anybody fight you on that one yeah so maybe something like um if the outdoor kitchen contains a water line it must be connected to a sewer line to the sewer line I would be okay with sink if if you have a sink then I would say yes but you know you can have a little hose bib and do what you want to do and you know so if if you add the language with a a sink in there I can support that idea if you have a sink that's supplied with water and if you're below grade there is a unit called uh because I used to put them in basements where the ba the toilet in the basement would be lower than the sewer line and it's called a flush up where it's a unit built into the toilet where it would take the water and the waste and flush it up into the sewer line so little mini lift station so there's no getting away if you want this there is means there's no oh well I can't do it because the grade is wrong or I'm below grade typically if you pump into let's say a 4 in gravity it could the pressure could come come out of your toilet and the in the shower you know unless you put a little Reservoir and I'm sure Al knows what I'm talking about generally you connect a a force man to a manhole so that it has a bit of an area to dissipate the velocity um unless it's really low low pressure kind of thing it's too technical I think for us here well what I'm thinking about is can we differentiate between kitchens and [Music] a like fish cleaning area you know like a kitchen you're going to have the electricity and that I thought we were talking the last time about not having electricity to cheeky Huts but now we are and uh it's kind of grown substantially that now these cheeky Huts can have two sides and um you know all this fancy kitchens and I I I think we've kind of gone beyond it in my well I think you're convoluting two topics so cheeky Huts we were talking about having built without permits because they're built by right and if they are constructed without the permits they cannot have Water and Electric connected to them right that yeah yeah and the definitions it states that they cannot have mechanical electrical Plumbing or other non-wood features okay so that's the Huts that are being built by the the named tribes where you don't have to they're exempt from the Florida building code we have that on page 51 so that's where the electricity where you can't have the electricity that's where that's coming from right here and then also with the the sinks I'm just thinking about it like a lot of people do have them on their Dock and it's a sink and they do have water that runs to it they're not just using the hose some people do are we going to make them hook to the sewer line or the outside shower they're not going to they they won't have to it's almost like a sink with a garbage disposal is what we're talking about because if you have an outdoor kitchen you might have a garbage disposal and then you're throwing food waste in there but if you're just washing your hands with environmentally friendly soap or your car you're G to pull your car in your grass on your day you're allowed to you're G to wash your car so there's going to be some overrun of gray water into your yard but if you do it responsibly which we know a lot of people don't it should be okay but if it has an outdoor kitchen are you allowed to have a garbage disposal hooked to this sink then it would have to be sewer line or else you're just putting the rat food right right into the into the grass I don't know that's just what I was so I guess in the definitions of outdoor kitchen we can Define it there where outdoor kitchen may only contain counter space Grill sink miniature refrigerator but I mean but somebody's going to have these electric stoves and and all these other things if it's an outdoor kitchen so could it be defined in that area on page 50 you know so you've got your bro term outdoor kitchen but the definition of outdoor kitchen would be here and this is where if it's an outdoor kitchen it would need to be hooked up to the Sewer I'm just spitballing here you know just kind of trying to yeah we're kind of going down the dirt road a little bit you know I I don't know where where does it end you know where do we how do we create that definition um I think the connection language should stay in that section 11491 because it also talks about electrical um and plumbing lines things of that nature so I would think that that the more technical yeah because I mean like to to Mike's Point you know if it's a fish cleaning station you're running the hose out there it's a different a different game than having a sink with hot cold water and all that kind of stuff it's a different animal um but where do you know how do we Define that right um I'm at a bit of a loss myself but I think if the [Music] um you know excuse me we're defining this within outdoor kitchens so we've already decided that it doesn't include your yeah that doesn't include your dock because we're saying the parameters of this are the outdoor kitchen is this so so inside of that which is what Jenny's saying in 491 I think we just say sink because it's within the outdoor kitchens so any sink and sink is can be used in a lot of different ways we don't have to say kitchen sink it could be any any sort of sink needs to be connected to the Sewer but since it's within outdoor kitchens that's all we're applying it to right it doesn't apply to the outdoor shower or the dock orever and personally I think that anything like that should be going getting treated I mean you have City water going to it it needs to leave and get treated um but I think just bringing it back to we're talking about this specific kind of application if we just say syn must go to sewer it's it's over yeah we're looking at it through the lens of this is an outdoor kitchen yeah application not all the other stuff that's all stuff we can right try and figure out on another situation right the docks and the outdoor showers or whatever but good point appreciate that so maybe that's the language if if the outdoor structure has a sink it must be connected to the city sewer as well as these other things that we already have in there think you can Wrangle that up yeah not too not to know you can I've got all kinds of faith in you well thank you so if the outdoor kitchen contains a sink um it must be connected to a sewer line and must have an inline isolation valve exactly perfect okay I have that written up so okay all right did we want to go back to the definitions of the the uh the walls containing the two or more I know we had some I'm still kind of opposed to the you know just two walls because once again like I say it's gonna they're going to have two then they'll make three and then who's going to really see and then before you know it it's going to be completely enclosed yeah but to your point it's hard to legislate morality right I mean we have a you know we have ordinances say you can't replace windows and doors people do it on weekends and you know um I don't know that I mean I see where where it opens the door so to speak to that a little bit um fundamentally if it's two walls are open it's to me it's open right it's that's not enclosed maybe it's one wall I don't know maybe it's one wall to your point somebody's gonna have they want to hang a TV or they want to yeah have some shelving or something does one wall work I could go for one settle out of court for one settle on one yeah I mean like I say it's just you know pushing it down the road two balls yeah they're going to have both sides and then you know both long ends and the two short ends are going to be open well okay so then before you know it that one end is going to get closed and and it just slippery slope I could go for one so in terms of I had it here so open accessory structures means an accessory structure containing three open sides would be simple enough to change less typing for you three three or more open sides yes yeah yeah okay any other discussions or do we want to go through the things that we talked about amending um I don't you guys good I I think we got a pretty good grasp on it this is a smart group you got here in front of you so I think we're uh think we got it okay all right any more for anym guys want to talk about anything else or somebody want to make a motion to recommend this as amended by us this evening I make a motion to accept ordinance 20241 with the exceptions that we had given 02 right this ordinance O2 um yes 24-02 I don't want to split hair we already settled we can go one and a half absolutely down at the bottom is it says 01 oh it does you're right so on your on your pages at the bottom left it says 2024 d01 I don't know how that happened but we will well we're giving you we're giving you some slack here Jenny thank you thank you the title was correct the page numerators were wrong down there2 at the bottom bottom left of your of the draft ordinance bottom left it says 202 24-1 so so I make a motion to approve ordinance 20242 with the changes as we discussed right we have a second second perfect thank you Mr connley uh any other discussion on the motion any public comment since I forgot to ask for that uhuh I know but there's nobody here but you made me ask for it last time I know uh seeing no public comment we'll close the public comment section and we'll move along to calling the role please commissioner Dylan yes commissioner Connelly yes commissioner Mah yes commissioner noo yes commissioner Laro yes commissioner gavahi yes chairman woff yes motion carries unanimously thank you good good input everyone thank you very much for that uh we don't have any old business on the agenda do we have any administrative presentations before we go on to our discussion which would include the John's Pass Activity Center go right to that one yeah sure all right okay this may look very familiar to all of you I know we've gone over this quite a bit um so I'll kind of Bree pass some of the things we've talked about multiple times um so we did have Workshop we had three workshops uh recently and on the activity center zoning so where we are right now we have a slide later on about this but just so you know where we are in the activity center and what needs to happen so on February the 20th the activity center will be going to the county and then after the County votes on this we will be taking this back to boc so this will not go back to you for the future land use change thank you Andrew so yeah here's the slide that has all the dates and kind of the the process so the County's meeting on the 20th which every everyone's welcome to attend of course and then after that meeting um the future land use change for the activity center will go to the boc for the second reading and um their final action and that those are two ordinances and that's adopting it in the comprehensive plan um and changing the map and then the next step step that we have to do is amending Our Land Development regulations to create zoning that corresponds to these uh land use changes so that's kind of what we're that's what we're working on right now we have to wait until the land use is adopted um if it's adopted and then the zoning will will come after but is a step that we have to do in this whole process so we're starting with the zoning writing the zoning uh we had the three Workshops the last few weeks about the zoning so this is one this is our presentation from those workshops so we'll just kind of go through that so John's Pass Village Activity Center why it's to protect the village uh the character of The Village to ensure that we have compatible Redevelopment uh development that matches the development pattern of of the village in the surrounding area uh we have to be consistent with a countywide plan and this is a proactive instead of reactive approach in planning so instead of this coming from a developer it's coming from the city that where we recognize this area is incompatible with the future land use um and with the zoning and so this is our way of solving that so our relationship with the local land regulations there's really three different things that we look at locally when we look at well what can you do with your land so at the C's level we have the countywide plan and that's pretty basic it has the intensities densities um isrs what you can do with your land how you can use it and the comprehensive plan looks very similar it's pretty basic on what it includes on what you can do with your land um intensities densities is R Maxes and uses so those look very similar and then where we have the zoning is the code of ordinances so where we have our zoning map Our Land Development regulations just like the accessory structures we were just talking about that's in our code of ordinances it's really the nitty-gritty of what can I do with my land can I put a tiki hut on here can I expand my expand my house can I go up another story all that stuff is in the code of ordinances so when you come and you talk to us what can I do with my land usually looking at the code in the Land Development regulations so here are the three corresponding Maps you have the countywide plan map the madira beach future land use map this is with our comprehensive plan and then we have the zoning map and that's where that's what the code of ordinance is the Land Development regulations so these look very similar the counties and then our comprehensive plan and the zoning looks a little different we have a few more categories and like we discussed before we were inconsistent we exceeded some of the Cy uh Maxes where we can't exceed them so in all those um few months ago we really rectified this and reduced these so these were the numbers before before we reduce them um if you remember all of those amendments to the code in all the zoning districts so we realized that this area a lot of a lot of areas up and down Gul Boulevard uh we inconsistent with the countywide plan but really in this concentrated area we had a lot of development that was not conforming to these standards and so reducing these standards um would create even more inconsistencies and then would also not allow people to develop um in the same character as what's developed down there in this whole area so as we know um the activity center has a lot of different moving Parts um things on Pelican look different than things on Village which looks different than Boardwalk so that's why we created these character districts and this is really reflected in two different areas it's reflected in the special area plan which is connected to the comprehensive plan and then also we will be creating six new zoning districts and these will be the six new zoning District areas um so just so you can see on all the maps so this would be the countywide plan map I just had has this whole area as an activity center and then our comprehensive plan which is called the future land use map looks very similar but um in our comprehensive plan it reference it will reference the special area plan what I just talked about it's a 70 page document you saw it a while ago um but that references the six character districts and then the zoning map will look very different so it has those six character districts so it'll be six new zoning districts and here are the proposed standards in the this would be in the comprehensive plan and this will be going to boc for second reading in March so they do have the opportunity to reduce some of these standards but these are the proposed standards as of now and then I'm assuming additional restrictions will be placed when the ordinances are written absolutely according to especially the zoning so the zonings what we're working on right now um that'll be like your setbacks and uh height and you know different buffering requirements um in the next slide so zoning districts have things like right setbacks height it also talks about Improv surface ratios um and there's also a section that some of our zoning districts have special requirements and something that we're looking at um including especially in this traditional Village commercial core and Boardwalk so the yellow orange and pink area right there uh we are looking to include design standards some light design standards so that new development will have to match that character have that old fishing Village um character the comprehensive plan also discusses of being very important um in that area so one thing about design standards we're not allowed to have design standards for single family and duplexes this area doesn't really have them um but just so you have that in your mind um let's see and then another thing that we see in the special requirement section of the zoning districts um is buffering requirements and a lot of times that'll be youth specific and zon specific Landscaping so I think it's like C3 or R3 one of them has you know an additional um landscape buffer if you're next to your residential so something like that um we already have some some of the zone zones and our code have have those extra buffering requirements um and then something that's not in the zoning districts um that's also in the code it's like Landscaping sidewalks and driveways accessory structures uh parking standards swimming pools those are those are things that are not in the zoning districts but that's also that's in the code so those are things that we look at so after we do the zoning districts we may um look look towards all of these different things the Landscaping the sidewalk section in the code um and see if there's any amendments that we would make to really focus on John's P Village area and um amendments to those sections will there be any architectural renderings reviews for this area uh are you talking about for the design standards yes I'm hoping to do something that's very light so um we haven't really gone down that path too far um I know that we're we don't have as much staff um to do a full Architectural Review and design guidelines so it'll probably be like a light design guidelines what I'd like to see in John's Pass and and You' have stated a couple times that we need to be consistent with the countywide uh regulations related to land use um in terms of density intensity you know we can certainly um you know meet that required their requirements but we we could also put some sort of a clause in there that you know or or density and intensity would be maybe less however if somebody wants to achieve a higher density or intensity they can achieve that by providing better architectural design and Landscaping and and some of the elements that would encourage them to to to come up with a better design if they would like to get more density slash intensity yeah so we do have we go to this slide where we have the asteris right here so you can get higher um intensity and density through the alternative temporary lodging use standards and that's something that the county allows us to adopt we've adopted it um elsewhere in the city but through that you have to have a development agreement not a PD not resoning a PD but a development agreement and that development agreement has standards um and the county has basically like their Baseline standards so um and one of them is design looking at design but that is something that we can write in there um a more robust Design Elements architectural elements um enhancements with that development agreement process so yeah that's something that we can look at including okay thank you are all these numbers the same that we saw before has have the um meetings changed any of this it's been reduced because uh the last meeting was related to or the last Board of Commissioners meeting related to this was uh for the uh Ford pelis proposed a more restricted category uh based off of their criteria of it not being at the crossroads of two um multimodal corridors and that it was uh less than the acreage threshold so um at that meeting the board adopted for pysis compromise which would adopt which made it the neighbor the neighborhood center category which was the more restrictive one um examples of in pelis county of ones um in St Pete Beach down in the passag grill area that has the neighborhood center category um there's this mixed use apartment complex up in denen that has it and then there's an area of Tarpon Springs that has it so and Palm Harbor downtown is also the same category yep so it's more restrictive than what was you guys voted on when it was at Planning Commission um guess a while ago so yeah it's been reduced it's been reduced since last time that you saw it so basically so all of the stuff we've worked on is working so I guess it's getting people a little bit more appeased yeah and edes the board the last vote was a four out four out of five on the alternative compromise that yeah because that's why I was just looking at page 61 and the yellows um I mean you I don't have the other stuff but that's I guess those are the changes for the fs for the retail and service the county was Point 55 so this was um this is what we used to have okay so few months ago maybe four months ago or so we H I don't know if you remember but we did like R R3 um C1 C2 C3 C4 all of the do you remember all of those ordinances vaguely yes okay so we were reducing like these numbers right here the things that are in that are highlighted we were reducing them to match the Cy's Max maximums we were required to do that and that's what I thought but I mean you but that's what is I was looking at these numb these were the old these were the old numbers um of what used to be in there now they're changed um but like I was saying in this area um which is different than up and down Gulf Boulevard you know further north this area has a higher concentration of development that that exceeds those standards and especially like you know in what you think of John's Pass on Village Boulevard um those exceed anything any of the standards that the county allows for um with commercial F so that's why we're really going for the activity center it makes it it's more unique Cate land use category um a lot of downtowns have this activity center category it's just kind of a way that the city gets to be unique and right in their own um standards so we're still moving towards the the direction that we were trying to get to yeah ex numerous times before we're still moving forward where we had you know as I recall the county had higher limits than we were looking at so I believe we went back of like Okay so let's put ours a little higher for the activity center well Ben for all of them on the y i okay so these are the current numbers that are being proposed that would be going to second if if the county at that meeting in February approves it then it would be coming back for second reading with these numbers on this map um anything with an Asis next to it would be if a de if a property owner develop applied for a development agreement uh which would be is required the countywide plan has specific requirements related to um AR like architecture design like Transportation impact um so it has additional standards that would have to meet um and the language is is pretty strict but um I guess next time we should add like a slide that has maybe like a summary of the alternative temporary lodging use standards to kind of clarify that because we wanted to make sure and at at the end of the day gives City final say over the approval or denial of of temporary like lodging use like Hotel stuff and those development agreements have to come to Planning Commission so you would you would get a say and what goes in that development agreement too what Andrew was saying there's a set standards a baseline that the county says that has to include those design standards the um was it transportation and Mobility um Emergency Management and I think there's a few other things uh we can bring that to you we'll bring that to you when we discuss this again yeah so and it's important to remember the lots are very small down here so there are buildings that are two stories long Village Boulevard that have a Flor ratio higher than a one because it covers most the lot so the neighborhood category compared to um like the resort and the existing Resort and Retail and services category allows for kind of flexibility for uh to have commercial or or mixed use development like that that you're that the existing categories don't don't really Encompass what what's down there um and uh I I think unfortunately like I think a lot of rumors kind of spread around about kind of and and the interest this makes it like allows for people to build back make sure Redevelopment looks like what's down there and and anything that that requires that alternative temporary lodging use standards has to come through plan commission and the board and so it it makes sure that kind of put gives the the city the tools to make sure like some that new develop make sure new development benefits the community and the communities on on board with it um and there are areas we did reduce the temporary lodging density like in Village we actually reduced the Max from 60 to 45 and we removed any temporary lodging density off of the boardwalk area so there were um temporary lodging did did you say density and yeah we we've reduced the dens well we there's no density here on in the boardwalk district and we reduced it in Village from the current current com commercial General category has 40 by right and 60 with a development agreement and in the activity center plan it would be reducing it to 45 by right as as the Max and no way to get above that that develop we want make sure yeah because people have we want to make sure that area stays mostly commercial with and focused and and we don't want someone trying to buy up property to try to do because at the end of the day that that's what makes it unique is to have those nice nice small commercial and some mixed use buildings down there um so this is a page that's going to pelis county that was approved kind of by us and then approved by the did the first reading at the boc yeah so it boc did their first first reading um at the higher standards and then it went to Ford pelis for pel said oh we think yes it should be an activity center but let's reduce um the category from Community Center to Neighborhood Center it's like a subcategory in their categories and so through that reduction we had to reduce our numbers so we reduced our numbers um brought that to the board the board said yes okay we're on board with these reductions and then now it's going to the county for their vote and then it comes back to us it's a long process so but this is basically what's going to the county on the 20th yes these numbers these numbers thank you and then it'll come back to us so there may be more reduction it won't increase but there may be some more reduction and that's up to boc and that'll be hopefully in March that's what we're foreseeing um let's see so just an example of our zoning so we've been talking a lot about you know the intensities and densities um but really what we're now focusing on while all the other things are getting ped and and move forward is the zoning um so just taking an example of C1 zoning and what that looks like with the setbacks that we have in our code uh right now is front yard is none side yard is 10 feet on one side and rear is 25 feet um now if you look at Village Boulevard you can see that almost none of these buildings meet those setbacks so it's really looking at our zoning code what's built there now um what's the character defining features even just like with setbacks and Heights and really codifying that in the zoning section so that's what we're writing up um and looking at R3 this I'm sorry let me just let me back up a little bit the height is that measured from ground or from DFE oh thank you for putting that out um no that's that's measured from DFE so which is typically do we have like a two or three foot of freeboard we have four four yes we have a lot so um so if if you don't know what DFE is it's design flood elevation so it's based flood elevation plus the free board um and we have four feet of free board so the easiest way to imagine where we measure this height is if you look at this second floor that's that's where you're going to have your design flood elevation so that's where we start measuring I don't know if you can see my cursor but yeah that's where we start measuring the height so right now the height is 3 4 feet starting at DFE now what about the county vulnerability have we adopted there no we have not adopted their vulnerability assessment or study I can't remember exactly the term um and then looking at R3 uh very similar you have the front set backs uh 20 ft and side this is depends on the use um and then the rear yard depends on if you're on the beach or not see the cccl or 25 ft and the Height's 44 feet with the floor area ratio 0.55 for commercial use so how we see how we're imagining these um the zoning we don't have it written up yet we're pulling together all of the input from those three meetings um but we imagine this transitional district will look almost identical to what's there right now with the setbacks we really don't want much change um even these standards are very similar to what's what's there currently um you might have a little bit of change in this John's Pass Resort area um as well as with this low intensity mix use Pelican we envision these three really staying pretty much the same maybe some slight tweaks um but then really focusing on that traditional Village commercial core boardwalk and putting in those light design guidelines and making sure that new development will really match that character and um the features of the development patterns that are there right now Jenny I I noticed that you had a 25 foot setback from CCC line has that always been the case is that so it's it's either the cccl or 25 ft so we have some properties that are on like Gulf Lane like right here um so those have a 25 foot setback or if you're on the beach then it's just a cccl so you don't have to set back 25 ft from the CCC corre yeah how are you going to do that C1 how you going to make that work because that's all the John's Pass Village Villages and there's I mean there's no setbacks yeah we're going to take a look at what's there um a lot of it does not have any setbacks and then also looking at other Main Street communities we're talking about this area other looking at other Main Street communities and how they have their code of ordinances and Zoning codes and setbacks how they're written up and kind of looking at a few different um cities and mimicking some of their codes seeing what may work with us seeing what doesn't and then obviously bringing it to you um and workshops so with the F being a 20 that's how they're kind of getting I don't want to say getting away with it but that's how they're being implemented because they are they've got everything covered and they're much twostory structure yeah that's what makes it the two exactly so two is basically if you take the entire lot and you know one two but we we will have some setbacks um but as you can see in this example there's really most of these buildings don't meet that setback um and we want to make sure that we keep that Main Street character it's hard the area picture of being the same character with 10 feet between each building you can a lot of those are really small lots and they have buildings that share common walls it just doesn't make sense yeah it doesn't it doesn't make sense I don't know why some of those lots are 40 feet wide and you've got a 10 foot setback you you're taking up 25% of their taking 25% of the lot away one one building that there's at least there's two buildings down there that were built in the last 20 years um which is that uh John's Pass Plaza parking garage and then the uh mixed use commercial building next to it I just wanted to hold those up because those are kind of examp uh of U kind of like what modern buildings look like on some of the because the the lot on uh just so having like different setbacks where Andrew's talking about makes sense a lot and this is a this will be a different Zone this will be the think specifically along Village Boulevard all but yeah the lots are the same size here as they are along Village yeah if you go along Village Boulevard if you picture 10 feet between each one of those stores you're G to have a bowling alley a two-lane bowling alley in every building it's about all you're going to get um so there's got there probably needs to be some massaging of that specific I mean even if it's broken down further to specifically on Village Boulevard um that it has a little bit of a different well and that's where they do have the traditional Villages the yellow and that's they got the it's really just like over here okay so just like I was here's the traditional Village it's this area yeah it's really Village Boulevard and then this little triangle area so obviously you want these standards to keep that Main Street area you know look and character but then maybe in Commercial Court yeah but that's still C1 right so that's going to have those setbacks even though it's a different character District it's still being Zone C1 yeah so that those set those side setbacks will apply it makes more sense over here to have that for sure yeah but so we'll be creating those six new zoning districts so then we can really differentiate okay well you're on the traditional village where it's more Main Street we don't want any side setbacks but then over here in the commercial Court we do want setbacks one thing that's interesting with like a some of the like newer construction stuff is so they if we go so it has so it has the commercial at grade that um but the parking it they put it behind it um and what's nice about doing it like that it's still pedestrian focused up front and the parking's off the alley right um so we' be writing that as well in the in the zoning as like camouflaging the the parking right same for the structure that I think Andrew is just about to go to how the parkings really C camouflage in the building you can't really tell it's what six stories yeah it's actually six floors of parking like I don't think people realize actually this is like one of the outside of like stuff like barefood beach club in madira Bay this is like one of the tallest buildings down there um but they they hit they've hidden the kind of the height and bulk of it pretty well because they have like this area with with covered walkways and and nice shops and stuff so yeah that part's great yeah so I I I think think it I guess people have fear of kind of unknown but in reality this would allow us to kind of protect what's and make sure like the kind of continue the success of John's Pass because I unfor like because previous stuff like like Town stuff that we weren't here to really like be involved with but it's kind of hard to kind of move like a rebuild that trust after that but I I think I think we've done a good job getting this to closer to where it needs to be that meets kind of the uh concerns of the community like with because we wanted to find a balance between allowing for some Redevelopment but not too much development um and and I mean it's important to remember that even some of the large larger existing things down here are about half the density of what you'd see up in clearw Beach and a third of the height so like nothing down even some of the nothing's not even close to like what's up there sure and it's important to remember that the height thing I've been look looking at what different cities have done some cities require like a certain amount of setback for the higher floors um to avoid kind of having like blocky buildings yeah so they step back a bit yeah um I think I think the tallest I think either madira Bay barefit beach club might be the tallest ones down there currently um and and then there then the other ones are like the parking garage and then some of the some of the condos are six stories that were built like in the late 70s early 80s um ideally we want to make sure to Encompass the existing height but Prett much from the community they don't want stuff taller than than that um but thinking of kind of ways to either kind of make sure height doesn't become to too bulky is important and um or even like kind of either incentives to kind of like that say like the gain additional you have to have more setback like because because I mean on on the beach side especially we'd want like a good amount of setback between buildings to not block the beach view right I'm my my more of my concern was that Village Boulevard really you know those stores are store store store store store yeah but that's the character of that right it's supposed to be very compa yeah exactly and pretty dense um and if that's still going to be C1 and even though it's a traditional Village technically it's still SE one I is there a car Val for that street it'd be rezoned the traditional Village traditional Village okay so it'll have new yeah that's perfect Z yeah great one thing that be important to remember with like the like traditional Village and the stuff low intensity mixed uses there's not really a connection between them currently so having some setback would would allow for a better connectivity between Pelican Lane and Village because right now you have to walk all the way around right yeah you know little secret corridors yeah and even just kind of on the rear of of all this stuff along Village along Pelican it's like kind of dumpsters and other stuff so it' be important to make sure any like has that stuff shielded that in as well okay well and that's like these are very good examples I mean you know in terms of this is what we're looking to do keep the village the two floors uh as it is and then any other new structures which would be basically kind of going in Fisherman's Alleyway are those two structures youve got the parking garage which is you know you never know looking at that that that's parking garage you've got all the retail space and you've got motel rooms up top that I didn't realize until I was over there yeah so um and and great use of property and you know it's a parking lot that does very well I know yeah on the beach side kind of one of the things that there's a lot of uh smaller Lots between Gulf Lane and G Boulevard so it might be important to keep in mind you might want different setback requirements for different lot size or different types of uses because like to fit something here like because these lots are very kind of small because when gol Boulevard was widened it took off a lot of like like some Lots I think about 18 feet off of them um but like the Lots along the beach side are a lot larger so and and you don't want to block the beach view so you'd want more setback but even within a a district you might have different requirements by and and where they're located and and I think that's the the great thing with this PL like we can finally actually get it like we don't need to do a one- siiz fits-all approach we can actually get really kind of specialized with all those different types of uses down there and and make sure everything fits right you guys are have a lot of writing to do of course yeah you can handle it though all right anybody got anything else they want to any further you want to get in on that I think that's all we have unless if anybody wants to bring up any input uh for that or we'll just I we're going to be bringing this every every month the zoning and the drafts that we have um to get in input from from you what kind of feedback did he get from the um neighborhood or from the town hall meetings uh we didn't get as much as we were hoping um we had I think a few we we provided some sheets asking you know do you have any input on setbacks or additional requirements um I think we got a few of those sheets back and then we also did a SWAT analysis for each of the new zones so we have some input from from the SWAT analysis so we're inputting putting all of that in a spreadsheet sheet um and then also writing up a rough draft of the zoning and what that would look like and doing some research on what's on the ground right now in those districts and then under the steps with the step three the CPA meeting what time is that you just have the date of the 20th 9:30 is that right 9:30 and I don't think that we have the agenda yet right we're waiting for the agenda to come out for that I I was checking the the County commission website today but it'll should be po hopefully posted soon but that'll be here at 9:30 not not here up in Clear Water that is in Clear Water okay yeah um yeah there's AIS County communications office um it'll it has the listed address on the County commission website um specific room but yeah it's up in Clear Water and we can send that to the commission when once we once we see the agenda make a note all right very good so summarizing there's going to be basically six zoning districts in that John's Pass area yes they'll all be new it'll be interesting to see how it plays out yes there'll be a lot of writing too yeah a lot of research well and I you know I think it's going to Spur some Redevelopment in a lot of these places especially that little segment just to the south of 131st where some of those you know smaller houses are and things like that yeah and where the parking lot there's a parking lot there by TRS I think you're going to see a lot of that lot of that might change might cool anybody else got anything I have a question um is our meeting being I guess not necessarily televised but broadcasted through a web page the county does have their meetings on a on a you they do live stream on YouTube usually no I was talking about our meeting here tonight yes ours ours our uh YouTube live and so so if someone's let's say listening to us or watching or I don't know what how it's broadcasted could they do we have any mechanism for them to call in or somehow ask questions they can hook up to live chat I think so yeah huge watch parties where they've all got party popcorn you should see it it's huge I'm just wondering if it's if it's a good idea to to you know to have a public access to our meeting not necessarily physically but virtually during covid they did a little bit of you you could call in but then I think they went back to the I think I think it would be difficult to monitor I think the communication gets broken when when they're not if we're just hearing you know the voice of God coming from the speakers I think it's really hard to get yeah get that across I mean you know we're here we're only two miles long and it's smile wide they don't have far to go to get here right okay any more for anymore awesome well thank you for getting us all clarified on that I know it's a lot of work for you guys and you're doing awesome um and I think our City's better for all of your efforts so thank you um our next meeting set up for Monday March 4 here at 6 pm and I believe that's it all right it's a wrap we'll adjourn this meeting thank you