##VIDEO ID:zJgwoDJHYA0## like to call this meeting to order this is Independent School District 8:32 this is a study session and a special meeting on Monday September 9th 2024 5:30 p.m. and uh I will start with a roll call of attendance please done approval of the agenda have a motion move by director Regan second second by director Peterson any discussion all those in favor say I I those opposed motion carries okay action items so the reason we're having this um our study session switched to a special meeting is so that we can take a vote because I am um recommending the approval of a resolution um closing um and I want to talk you through how it is um we have done this in the past I know there's been some conversation about potentially changing this process in the future um I we use the same parameters that we've used previously and so I was just going to kind of talk you through how we go about that um so first of all for elementary we use um the Metro average um which we get from a class- siize study that's done by our service Co-op each year and um I did share with you this weekend just kind of a spreadsheet to give you some context around how this how this looks so um if you look at the I and then I also printed it out for you um and it's just slightly different because we had a we had an enrollment update I think by one or two today um typically we look at our enrollment on October 1st that's um the first time mde pulls the numbers in order to determine um funding and such and so when I when I'm sharing these with you are September 8 data is a little bit different might be a little bit different by October one October one are the numbers that would typically show up in a report so just know that what you're looking at for today's num September 8th or September 9th will be different on October 1st so these aren't reported anywhere these September 8 numbers okay so I'm just trying to make that part clear okay um so up in the top right you see our Metro average and I gave you 2019 and 2023 because I want to give you some context there too so you'll notice the 2019 te numbers are before we had any Esser dollars and those U Metro average numbers are a little bit higher class sizes for K5 than they are last year a number of school districts ours included had lower class sizes in order to using our s dollars in order to keep class sizes low because we had um lower enrollment and um also to just support students and teachers and so you'll notice a little bit of a difference between 2019 and 2023 so um just you know it's it's not a it's not a lot we're still using essentially the same um numbers but they are slightly different okay any questions about that with the Metro average up there okay so our parameters have been that we try and stay at or below um the Metro average in K K through five and so you'll notice um if you look at my September 8 um numbers we have average class sizes of kindergarten of 20 um first grade of 21.3 second grade of 23 third grade 23.3 fourth grade 23.8 and fifth grade 26.2 um and so those numbers are at or below um the Metro average except maybe for um fifth grade depending on which number you use whether you use 26.7 or 25.8 still in a Range that's pretty similar um and and so one thing to note is a lot of our decisions we make we start with in January and February that's the first time that we look at our open enrollment numbers because that's the first window and we determine how many students we can accept we base it on just kind of our historical data looking at what our numbers are this year what we expect to happen over the course of the the summer um and just try and predict based on on that you'll also remember that in January we had a um a demographic study and we got some more information about what to expect from from different as we get different housing in our community whether it's Homes apartments what we can expect from from that in terms of a ratio so we use that to to try and figure out back in January and February what we should predict um and from that then in March we look at Staffing and we staff and SCH and work on our staff and schedule at the elementary level it's a little bit easier because it's classro based and so um so the Staffing is really we just look at our numbers and try and figure out how many sections do we have and how many students can we fit um at the secondary level it's a little harder because there's lure there choices that students make there's the scheduling there's a lot of shared staff between middle school and high school so I'm going to talk about that in a little bit about how we go about that but that one's going to be a little bit different so at any rate in our K5 I am recommending that we close enrollment at this point open enrollment we may get some some resident enrollment during the school year but um that third and fourth grade those are um places where we would to typically have some some space but um at this point I am recommending that we just close K through five so I'm going to start with that part do you have any questions on that because that one's a little bit easier it's completely based on on averages you have any comments on that process of using the Metro average I'll just say I appreciate you walking through that and I think that's consistent with our policy and our guidelines so um I will just add that I I asked you a question about this um you know like for example like siblings if there's siblings in our system and how is that handled and and you you talked to me through that I don't know if that's helpful for the rest of the board but like these decisions have been the conversations have been happening for months with these families about um about enrolling in their home district and things like that because of our numbers being so high right so um there is a sibling preference if there's a sibling that's already in the district um back for open enrollment back in January and Fe liaries we would look at those um families or those students who already have a sibling in the district and um that is one of the the the the areas where we we can accept siblings as you go through the school year though I just add because that's state law because that state law thank you um as you go through the school year you might have or as you go through the Open Enrollment process you might have a family come in and and apply and some um get in and some do not and that is the case every year um um and so then families do have to make the decision whether they want to keep their children in the ones that got in and then try again next year for the others and that's a conversation so Leslie lovis does all of our open enrollment conversations with families and that's something that she explains to them at that time so she's been having conversations with families who have been on the waiting list um you know many since uh January February time that first range and she lets them know what to expect and can't predict exactly what will happen but tries to help them make decisions okay anything else on that okay um middle school and high school is a little bit different because of um the the number of choices students have in electives and shared Staffing we've had some questions about the middle school and so I'm going to talk a little bit about Middle School in particular um so Middle School one the thing the parameter we're given is that um to follow this team model is really it's pretty open in terms of what the board has put out there as a parameter I tried to provide to you um so since I got this question um I haven't I have an updated sheet I'm going to pass out to you but I'm going to explain it first so typically in years past uh around we would have around 830 middle school students and that would be 10 sections per grade sixth seventh and eth um and we have been running 10 sections per grade um until last year we had um a class or we have this very small class that is this year in 8th grade so yeah so last year's seven if you look at last year's seventh grade is 236 students we did run nine sections for that class but you'll also notice last year sixth grade had 244 students so the so what happens when you run 10 sections of 244 students is you have a average class size of 24.4 which is a lot lower than your average class size for elementary so this year last year was our last year with our eser dollars we can't afford to run class sizes at the secondary at that level and so we did change it to um we have nine sections at six seventh and eighth grade now here's the other thing I'd want you to know um other decisions we make at the secondary level is we typically try to when and at the secondary level is a lot of is there are more leveled classes more choices so secondary level we typically have our um our uh honors classes accelerated classes be a little bit higher than our um classes for students who are at grade level or students who are below grade level need more help those classes will be smaller um a lot of times depending on how the numbers break on all of this I should tell you um and so when that happens we will have class sizes that are larger than the average and then we will have classes that are lower than the average and so that does happen and it does happen in Middle School that sometimes if a student is taking an advanced English in advanced math and then certain electives they can end up getting together in these classes throughout the course of the day in part because of our shared staff and so we have some staff that teach um at the high school and then they teach at the middle school and so they can only teach at certain times of the day so I'd want you to know that is happening at seventh grade right now so at seven in our seventh grade we have students who are experiencing smaller class sizes than other students and some students who are experiencing larger class sizes um I can also tell you that um our Middle School principal is looking at ways to alter that slightly but there won't be enormous changes because of the constraints we have on our staffing and um schedule the other thing to know uh right now is that we did have quite a bit of um new residents move in this summer and um that also affected our class sizes most we had um most of them are at the secondary level though we do have them across across the board so we had more um residents move in than we expected this summer as well and I bring all that up because our class sizes at the middle school um again are there's a lot of variation to them but they are bigger than what people experienced last year but what um students experienced last year isn't um a model that is um is it's not sustainable so I'm just going to show you something here if I I'm going to pass these to you what I did is I was trying to and here's the it's very difficult to talk about middle school and high school class average class sizes again because it varies so much depending on the class so for example um a choir um might a choir or band might be bigger than a an ensemble class is can be bigger typically fed can be bigger as a result because it's opposite that class so those things do happen regularly um I'm just giving you some context I did the best I could to I took science so what I did is um all of our students almost all of our students are in science classes um and not and they are not leveled and so I picked science as an example to just kind of look to have some comparison from one um year to um from 2018 and 20 24 so if you look in the top right I just picked the science averages from 2019 at the middle school level 29.9 um 2023 was 28.7 just to give some context if you look in 2018 you'll see um some average class sizes between 27 or no 26.7 and 29 you can see in 2 sorry that was 2018 2019 somewhere around 2 7 and 28 you can see where we are right now and where we were last year as well so this is all the context I can try to give you on this make sure I have it correct so in 2018 we had 10 sections in 19 we had 10 sections in 2023 we had nine sections no 10 sections you had 10 sections in Sixth and eth and nine sections in seventh okay thank you we went with all nine SE all nine sections on all three okay and then we had we had students move in um seventh grade again is the place where we got some feedback um we did stop open enrollment back in February in 7eventh grade um thinking we had left space and then we had mov in so um again it was it was not something we planned for um and and why we are closing enrollment so we've had families on the waiting list since February and seventh grade because of that and we have we do have I mean seventh grade is another is a our classes where um 10th grade I'll just give you an example 10th grade is a place that we've we've taken almost no open enrollment over the past few years each year that they've been with us we've had a waiting list for that class because it's just a bigger class um so in each class there's just there's just a variation of how many Resident students we have but the largest class was in 2018 class size in grade eight and that's um that's not unusual for middle school so if you look again at that science um back then 29.9 was an average class size for so those aren't unusual however it's not what our it's not what our students and families are used to that is true now with so so this year um we have we do have a variation in our schedule so we'll have some students are experiencing class sizes of 23 or 20 in some classes and others are over 30 and so that is that is something that's um that is happening this year so I just wanted to tell you that because I know you had heard from it I mean my goal here here is to recommend closing open enrollment but I also wanted to give you some context for what's happening any other questions about middle school and then I'll talk about high school yeah okay so once a child in seventh grade is in a big class and then you look at their 504 or their IEP and they have accommodations are those still met or it's this I'm sorry we have a big class always meet um so there there aren't accommodations written to a 504 that they need to be in a small class that's not what a 504 is written for um it's to create a the classroom accommodations that they need in the classroom so um which we will always honor that's that is what we do for yeah oh sorry I do but go for it um so my question is I mean this makes perfect sense and obviously our community and everybody got used do a lot of the covid dollars and the way we use that into lower class size was just one of those ways but um um one of the things I was wondering after we got that email or the communication from somebody about class sizes was you know maybe even just the space in the room could be utilized differently because it sounds like we're still right around or under that Metro average and this is not this was kind of the anomaly of what we did after during after covid but this is kind of more the norm of what it had been is that right and maybe you know I was just in my brain when I saw that I thought wow that maybe we just need to rethink some of the spacing because the class sizes don't seem like they're drastically larger than they were it's maybe just what it had been like in the last couple years yeah I yes that is true I think you're right about spacing and I know that was something the principle was working on with um the teacher that is the arrangement of their classroom so that was one thing um but the other thing is our scheduling which is something that we need to look at for next year um again our our principal is making some changes but um you know in terms of how we share staff it's been really limiting another thing that's been great but it also is limiting is our um choir directors wanted to split the choir so that there is a um soprano Alto choir and a tenor base choir because instruction they could Target some instruction um for kids that way well that also is another um constraint then on the schedule of where students have to be scheduled so um every time we create um that kind of opportunity which is great it also puts another constraint in schedule and so um we have more of that this year than we have in the past and in particular because of shared staff so with the creation of some of those special opportunities for kids the choirs that lock our schedule we're meeting student needs right so they're not just for the benefit of the teacher they're really about personalizing and meeting student needs and as we do that more we might run into things that are different for families and teachers and kids that aren't necessarily bad they're just different yeah I thanks that's it and yes I think that is something that we can see and we see it at the high school i' I'd say that one of the things our high school staff are really good at doing is because we want to offer um so many classes that are say smaller classes ex sizes um that's one I I'll get into that in a minute but um sometimes they will you know have two courses that are in the space at the same time so that they can honor students who want to want to take those courses but we wouldn't normally be able to run them otherwise because sta we can't staff a class for um just five students or something like that so there are things that our high school staff are accustomed to doing I'm not suggesting that a middle school um you know staff members was going to run two courses at the same time but I'm just get I offer that as an example of something High School staff um so I've got a two questions I think and the first one's going to sound dumb but I don't think it is um when you say open enrollment is closed what does that mean and what I'm getting at is um in my mind I would have thought like we would have known how many students were coming in to the grades and so when you say open enrollment is closed is that just like the sign up for the wait list is closed does that mean we had more kids come into class here in the first few days than we anticipated and can you just help me understand like foundationally what that means sure so um we did well actually we did have more students show up on the first day than we anticipated that is true but mostly it was during the summer during the summer we had more kids um move into the district than we expected so that by quite a few so that was um surprising so um yeah so we had um so we can't like if I look at like so seventh grade is at 260 this year last year it um as sixth graders it was at 244 and typically we don't have a lot of students move in in seventh grade they typically our sixth so our big ones are kindergarten uh sixth grade and nth grade or where we see a lot of students make a transition it is not normal for us to have that kind of transition so that did take us by surprise so now that you're recommending the closure of open enrollment what does that technically mean that means there's no more wait list right well we we've already let people know that um we're recommending this for tonight yes there wouldn't be a wait list it would be that we just we are not accepting any more open enrolled students for the school year okay makes sense um and then my other question and I apologize if you covered this and I just missed it but but you've got the Metro average listed through sixth grade through fifth grade is it through fifth yeah that little one down below is the yeah so through fifth grade I see I pushed it down one row there yep um do from a Metro average perspective do we track the average in middle school um so again I'll just say um we yes uh okay we do track the average but it's by each class so y so that's the hard I understand that it's not like Elementary I fully grasped that I'm just trying to understand if the Metro average for 2023 is 25 well see not Apple sta I'm not making the proper comparison I get that but if you go down to the science averages do you see science that's the Middle School yep those are Middle School numbers and I chose science because everybody takes those aren't Metro averages those are just Mami science averages no those are Metro I'm sorry of six through 8th yeah so okay the way me so the way the report goes is that it breaks it down by um it'll break it down by um just overall but then it also breaks it down by um courses okay and because at the secondary level it's difficult every District does things differently about like where do they pull students who are going to get intervention from what um I just had to pick something and so that's what I chose because in our district everyone takes science got it sorry the clarification helps I was just trying to come up with something to give you context but again it is you know you'll have really wide ranges that's typical too so okay I'm not understanding completely is like I get the I get the average piece but then what I don't understand is I know fi ad's going to be different or band or choir like those are going to be very could be very different numbers but in the English science social studies maybe probably even math like is there a cap or a number where like we're at nine sections where then it's like that's just too many is there what's the high number that's too many yeah it's a yeah it's a good question and we have it every year at the secondary like when do we determine whether or not we have go to two sections so like we have 34 students in our seventh grade honors English and we only have one section well two sections is 17 so it's a decision the principes have to make every year about like where are we going to spend FTE um because they have a certain amount of FTE and so where are they and and that's like at the at the high school level that was the case as well um and so I could even move into the high school so a lot of times in the high school level what we'll look what we'll see is those required classes maybe 9th and 10th grade if they are a required course those might be a little bit bigger because the the um they're trying to make sure we have end of end of sequence courses and those end up being a lot smaller and so in order to balance it out um it can be kind of challenging so we want we want as many students as possible taking Spanish 2 this year so that we have courses in Spanish five at the end and so that is a that's a challenge every year to figure out exactly how do that we'll say there were some um math classes that were going to be over 40 this year and so we did add some because again of these movein that we didn't see coming um and we had a part-time teacher who could schedule in to take take a section that doesn't always work but when it does we try and do that sometimes our teachers will teach an overload course because they can you know lessen the impact so we do things like those are things that changes we make um that we can make at the last minute but can't always up you know change the entire schedule at the last minute so is this seven is is overcrowding the right word or not or just big i' I'd call it okay so context I it all depends on your context um to I it is big it is Big because we have nine sections it would not be big if we had 10 sections it would look different um but then that would be they would be you know smaller you know 26 or you know which which is a little bit low um given our given our funding so um well that wasn't my question I just was wondering how to phrase my question given the big seventh grade class and all these points you've made that make it seem much more sense than emails from parents of do you know how big my students classes um has the princip considered a seventh grade email just highlighting some of these things that parents might not realize happen I mean this I have a seventh grader so this is just I'm soaking this all in and it makes a lot more sense yeah um I'm not I'm sure she talks about it when people contact her about okay um the other I mean the other thing to know is um just having a large class Size Doesn't um it you know it I just would recommend everyone just allow the experience to happen um sometimes a large class as a former teacher myself sometimes my largest class waser than my smallest class it's so it's not at the once you get to Old the older grades it's not quite the same experience as the younger grades and so we purposely keep our small our small class size early on that's always been a part of what we do but at the secondary level it can it can vary um experience can vary depending on the mix of the children deal with it individually um I would recommend that makes sense thanks any questions about the high school I think I went quickly there but were there questions about that um so I'm gonna not have the percentage accurate but it's roughly at the high school like 30 33% open andr students make up our yeah I think it's higher at the high school than it is at earlier age I'm just curious do you have a feel for what percentage of open enroll kids would make up the Middle School population compared to high school you say that yeah I'm not phrasing it properly but um 6th through 8th there's a certain percentage of open- enrolled kids right now and we're at our capacity essentially right and so do you have a grasp for what that percentage of open- enrolled students is as a part of the entire student population in middle school and then compared that to high school yeah I don't I can't answer that question on the Fly I would say that I I do know that depending on the grade level we have different percentages of open enrollment by grade level and it just is because of you know that happens that's our fluctuation we're a small district and so that's going to happen from year to year like again that 10th grade class is is a mostly I mean it's it's higher resident students than maybe you know eighth grade is or something like that the reason I was asking is I'm wondering if we're starting to bump up against that ceiling in middle school is that going to most likely carry over to high school therefore lowering the percentage of open enrolled kids in those High School classes I assume that's the case but is that is that yeah I it could it could I guess I don't know for sure i' I'd have to look I I would might be wrong if I there um you know again part of sixth through eth was um was that we did reduce we did reduce Staffing um because we had been holding off for so long with really small class sizes and we just um couldn't afford it you know we are funded at a lower level than average um and to to be fund at a lower level and keep class sizes at a lower level is is a little bit challenging and so um this was not a this was not a perfect prediction I guess and um again we didn't we didn't see students coming but um I you know know that our staff is working on that and there'll be some changes I just wouldn't want to promise big changes for anyone can you uh just walk through why we need to vote to close it rather than leaving it open and if kids move out of District then you have the flexibility and um what that brings to to close it um I think one it communicates to families to let them know um that at this point we're we're closed because um that's always a question parents leave leaving them um hanging on um it's also the case that um we have to report if we turn people away we have to report it to mde now and letting them know why we close it's a board action to share why we we closed and we turn people away so in part it's a it's to also um be able to report to mte um Barb how do we answer the the question from folks so with the argument that would well we've got 30 more kids in those three let's just pick on six seventh and E I don't know how many total kids we gain but that means we got ex am amounted more dollars as well right so why could would we just use that XM modm or dollars to add a section seems pretty simple but I think that's a question that right so what we would be doing is adding a section of science English math social studies you know we would be going down the road which means and at the secondary level that's all different lure which is different than the elementary where there's the one lure so you add a classroom you have one lenser here it would be a bunch of part-time positions um and it would also require rescheduling a lot of students in order to be able to fit that in now again at the high school level we were able we had a part-time teacher who was free that we could schedule in to take care of those um those kids that were where we had class size over 40 it happens sometimes and we're when we're able to do it we can do it um and we're looking at that in a couple of our classes at the middle school but it but to completely do it um something that we really need to do earlier on in March so it's fair to say that certainly the dollars that we generate from the state aren't sufficient to meet that need secondly it's also a timing issue as well right and St yeah Staffing it's pretty significant someone who's been on here longer Lucy are the msba coffee and conversations recorded those Tuesday Mornings it's just free talking and then it's gone forever okay well last Tuesday was a lively discussion on open enrollment so too bad you can't go back and watch it but I do have two pages of notes um it was just nice to have all these different districts chiming in on open enrollment so it mean we ran out of time it it was let's continue this again so as you look historically um and Stacy was here for this as well um she will remember that this is not a new conversation we have this conversation every couple years the class that graduated in 2018 when they were in middle school they were going through some of the same things they were a big class they all did wonderfully I know many of those students they did great right it was a big class it had high open enrollment it fluctuates and we have worked really hard as a board to move away from having our fingers down the weeds where we don't belong to trusting the work and the knowledge of the team and bringing us the data information so we can close when it's appropriate because there's sometimes we shouldn't close and there's many times we don't close we used to close every single year all grades right and we haven't had to do that for a while because of the way um our Administration has been able to balance open enrollment and work in that communication and so it is different for many of you being newer to the board to have this come about but I mean Stacey can speak to this we have done this many many times this is not the first time this is not the first group of parents or kids who've had larger class sizes and it's not a bad thing it's just a different thing right they have more opportunities to interact with a wider variety of kids they get um more opportunities in other classes because of it I mean it's all really important because I think about yeah if we were to add a section then what do we have to lose or cut to make that happen and those cuts would be deep and those cuts would be painful right and so it's not ideal yes if we could afford it if the state funded us appropriately we would have smaller class sizes they don't um and this is why all the work we do with msba amsd all the lobbying we do down the capital is so very important because we're a small district and we get trapped in locked in in a different way than those very large districts because they have a lot more flexibility because our numbers are so much bigger so when they end up with 10 extra kids right it doesn't have the same ripple effect that we do I also want to clarify that barb keeps saying she didn't plan for this you can never plan enrollment it's not something you get to plan for it's something that happens and we don't know how it's going to happen every year so I appreciate you saying you didn't plan for it but Barb you can't plan for it because we can never know who is moving into our district who is moving out who is choosing something different for their students who come back we can't plan we get to react and we can look at historical data and I'm running the numbers of the gains and and things like that but but there's so many factors there that you cannot 100% plan for enrollment true and we we do have some ways to predict yes some general predictions but not exact numbers and 10 kids makes a difference thank you for sharing that um the last thing I was going to say for our parameter for the um high school and I forgot to say this is that we've been using that right siiz study that was done quite some time ago and it was we used to just call it 1200 but really when I read the right size study it's between 1150 and 1200 so I updated that in the parameters and we are right in that range and I think it's important to talk about it as a range in part because again of all the electives that we have at the high school and so um right now for example we have um we just have if students came in and wanted certain you know certain uh courses we just wouldn't be able to provide that and in particular at our nth and tth grade well we have in every grade we have some some classes that are that are pretty um high and so um that's in part also why I'm I'm looking at that so with that I am um recommending that you approve the resolution related to uh closing open enrollment for 2425 I moved director do Donna did you second it oh was going to ask a question oh we can can some second it second seconded by director Peterson discussion thank you um this is a question for Barb and the broader board here but it sounds like that right SI study was done quite some time ago is is it potentially the right time to do the study again and and potentially look at Open Enrollment from a broader like board perspective of course but also get feedback from the community on what they would like to see from a an enrollment size and class size and that sort of thing can I just say I so we have talked about that and I think it is something that we plan to look at this year um I know that we're going to do a right size study though I just no but we can talk about it as a board to determine how we got here so everyone can get up to speed and and I'll just say the reason I said that quickly about the study is because that was somebody somebody was doing their masters and so they had they had to do they had to do a project and they made this their research um and so it was free um otherwise it will it will cost something to do some kind of study like that or maybe we look at other districts and we have some kind of a comparison tool or something like that but I think we are going to delve into it as a board so that um everybody who wasn't here during that time yep great and I hope that when the board dives into that work it's not the right siiz study because the right siiz study only looks at the high school right and you need to look at the broader context not only the high school and so it's not the right side study that needs to be redone it's looking at the size and scope of the district and what you all want to be in this time and space okay any other discussion all those in favor say I I I those opposed motion carries now potential refinancing options Director of Finance hello that green right now you have to turn on underneath there's a button thank you uh good evening so uh on the agenda tonight was the uh potential funding or refinance refunding opportunities uh for for a bond issue that we talked about a little bit and um I'm continuing to work with Ellers on some different options and then uh as you're probably aware we added a finance committee board finance committee meeting uh for next Monday and so with that um we'll be able to the plan is to bring about three to four different options for the finance committee to review and then also review a parameters resolution that we've talked a little bit about um Finance on a committee level will be um able to get a little more into a little more detail and as far as reviewing these different options and then my hope is finance will come out of that with a recommendation and then bring that to the board on the board's fi uh regular board meeting on the 23d for Action um right now we still we're still in a good shape you know as far as having a lot of opportunity to get a lower rate so um that would be the the recommendation and so then tonight U we just ask that you table uh that item until the 23rd like a motion questions yeah does anyone have questions a motion to table I'd move to table item 4B till to the 23rd second by director Donna seconded by director doen any discussion okay all those in favor say I I I those opposed this has been tabled we'll talk about um thank you so um have for you um in your folders uh the draft of our portrait of a graduate um and I've talked a little bit with you about how to kind of process this um I'll just kind of go back again um to the process that we used and then help you walk through this document so um back in So this came came out of our strategic planning process asking for um the district to define success in multiple ways um and this is the product of initially some conversations that we had with the with community members who supervise or hire um uh PE uh employees or also who are in the military or in higher education and we asked them questions about what they were looking for in the their employees or people they supervise and we use that to determine to and so we Ed their feedback we processed that feedback we worked through a number of different groups including administrators and teachers and then I also brought it back to the White Bear area Chamber put together a group of um area Business Leaders to process this with us too so what you see here is the result of all of those groups coming together and giving us feedack back on what we want to see in a graduate now when we I'm going to take you through this and I want to just point out that this is not um and you have an extra copy for our one um audience member um this is not intended to be something where we have all students achieve all things at high levels but in other but for us to have students be able to find themselves in each of these areas discover their strengths areas that they need to work on and be really reflective on how they can put themselves out into their be on their best path um forward using these um areas of portrait of a graduate so here's what I want to do just to help you process I want you to start by covering it up and just looking at the six areas six areas are collaborator Communicator ethical Global citizen Innovative thinker self-aware and self-directed once you think of two children that you know well what where would you consider their strengths when you think of them by looking at those big or would you see that they might have some area for growth are they the same when you thought of it your two students your two children that they have strengths in the same area right and that's going to be the case for all of our children they're going to all have different strengths different areas that they need to work on go to the next one you'll see that we have um we have the description to give a little bit more to go on so for a collaborator collaborator strategically uses talents and brings out the strengths and others to work together for positive outcomes Communicator expresses ideas clearly and concisely for various purposes and audiences ethical demonstrates Integrity trust and accountability in actions Global citizen possesses the ability to navigate diverse cultural economic environmental and political Landscapes effectively Innovative thinker applies both creative and critical thinking to design and evaluate possibilities self-aware and self-directed possesses the ability and confidence to take an active purposeful role in their learning and that's agency that we've talked about many times so again think of the students that or the children that you were thinking of where are their strengths feel free to write if you want to where are their strengths where are some areas that you think they might need support just as you're thinking of the children that you have in your head know that we would do this with our students too to help them reflect on these areas where do they have strengths and where do they need support the last part here um the skills and dispositions and I won't read all of these out but remember the idea here these are um aspirational areas for each of our students as a graduate so a fifth grader there might be some things in here that a fifth grader can connect with and not all of them for sure there might be some areas that a middle school student can connect with but this is intended to be written for graduates and then what we'll do is work with our secondary staff on this and then bring it down to figure out at the lowest level how can we start growing growing these skills in students in a developmentally appropriate way that allows them to build on their foundations until they um are in high school where they're a able more to demonstrate and reflect on where they're going and use this in a way that they can um put themselves in a situation so that when they leave us they are more um self- aware and more able to talk about their strengths and areas that they need support in because they've had experience practicing this and presenting it and talking about it that's the intent of this did you have questions on any of it and I know I've kind of talked with a couple of you already and shared this before so it's not your first time seeing it necessarily you've had time to process because there's a lot here and before I ask questions again I'm just going to also say we're not planning to just roll this out as a sheet of paper that we hand people but we'll be pulling it apart and talking about it in different ways but this is the this is the comprehensive document that puts it all together and then we'll be pulling it apart more digestible I have a couple questions and it's more along the bullet points the skills and dispositions and knowing that your team is going to unpack all of this and what that looks like at different grade levels and things like that but my when you asked me to think about a couple of students I thought about my students who graduated and then I'm thinking about my two students who are still in the system and it made me think about things like um for example some of their strengths they had but coming through our system and then some of the things that they're learning as a young adult now um and so one of those things that I don't know that you were asking for our feedback but it popped into my head and I just are you open for any feedback on any of these bullet points or is this not the time replace for that I don't know potentially but I want you to know how many people have worked on this so okay but go ahead give it a run okay well I feel as though I uh so many people don't go ahead sure so what you're saying is so under Global citizen for example so one of the things that I I mean I like a lot of these all of these things are really fantastic things in here and demonstrate civic responsibility and um you know to me this feels like a good yesan to how our students graduating from our system can participate in that global economy so participating you know they're going to probably potentially leave mamei and maybe even our state and maybe even our country and thinking about like where does that fit under these skills and may me think about that so that was one and then I had a question on one that re under Innovative thinker recognizes patterns Trends and interdisciplinary connections I wasn't I don't really feel like I understand what that means in know in relation to Innovative thinking um I'm not saying you have to answer that now I'm just we can even talk about it in a one-onone or whatever but I just was curious because I didn't really understand why that fit there so there I'm going to jump in with my opinion if that's okay Kelly When I think about that because our schools have been siloed as you know right so we've got all the silos going we've got a math class we've got a science class we've got all these silos and we have lost the ability to see and learn and be Innovative in pulling something from one discipline into another to think about things differently and there are a lot of things when I think my area being mathematics I can think of a lot of things mathematics that I automatically transfer over to other academic areas and that Innovative thinking is what our students need to be able to do because the world is not in the same silos our high school is and so it's getting them to see that whole world picture to me and from from that they can be Innovative in thinking because they're not only thinking about oh in this one class this one thing all I can talk about is math I can look across and see how math is influencing other things and pull those pieces and then that allows them to do things differently and innovatively that we haven't done before okay so in my quotation marks I wrote Is that real real world exploration or Real World Learning right so I can tie what I've learned in the classroom to things in the real world and oh this isn't just something learned in math but this is something I can combine with what I learned in math to science to it relatable to something that they would experience in real life that was what I wrote down but then I was like I don't know if I'm trying to read into this too much okay so I will say um as a mathematician um this is this is one of those ones where um when you can recognize patterns and Trends um it allows you to think more think more broadly about new ideas because you're able to be analytical about noticing patterns and Trends so this is kind of a combination of both creative thinking and analytical thinking because patterns and Trends can really inform your ability to think much bigger because it and make connections in other um discipline areas so I would say it's not real world thinking necessarily because it can be really abstract thinking that you're taking in your applying to some a different discipline it's not necessarily always a real world it's my two cents but this is I will tell you that this is the one this Innovative thinker is the one that gave us the most challenge because we have so many different ways we had a lot of different thinkers in the room so we had people who are more um creative and we had more analytical people and the creatives and the analyticals had to come together to find the best words that um combine the two so it's just funny because this is the one talk about I look at them and think about habits of mind and to me you're using the habits of mind in the skills and dispositions which helps I think connect all those pieces together this is not a light document a lot to think about was a lot of good stuff together and I think it's important to note that all of this gets tied into the actual subject learning that they're doing and how it makes that that experience more um just brings more depth to that and then takes them into the world in a way that is more meaningful but a subject learning and it also allows students you know a lot of our we know in our community that um the the extracurriculars that our students do whether it's music Sports our clubs there is a lot of important learning that happens in all of those areas too um that build some of these skills and dispositions that allow students position themselves for Global success as well if you think of students who are applying um doing gradu or applying for colleges for example they're pulling in a lot of their experiences from Beyond the classroom as well and so if they can find those um can talk about these skills and dispositions from things that they've learned in other areas that also supports their work and so it's really an opportunity to really think about about a much broader students is beyond just the classroom so last point and that is um the worldwide economic Forum comes out with the skills the top skills that our students should know so right now the ones that they're saying by the year 2027 they want to see from our students who are leaving our K12 systems and doing something post-se secondarily or or working out in the workforce or whatever that might be the number one skill is creative thinker so um I love that that's in the description here under Innovative thinker I guess that was my key Point here of like making that sure that creativity is a part of this because this is what's being asked of our kids when they leave our system not necessarily just the facts about what you learn in social studies or in science or math but how how can you think creatively all right well um we're going to keep moving forward with it and I just wanted to have an opportunity for you to see what we've been working on okay okay and uh teaching and learning called Data presentation with Dr Riel so tonight I'm going to do an overview a data review I'm going to start by um re engaging Us in the concepts of satellite map level and street level data and then I'm going to take some time to overview our current satellite data we'll talk about our MCAS about some ACT data and our advanced placement data and all of that will set the stage for a discussion about what you all as Schoolboard members need and want with regard to our data so okay I don't know if you did that or if I did that but okay so when we look at those three forms of data that satellite data is our highest level broad data we typically gather that information one time per year and what that data does is it shows us District schoolwide or grade level patterns of achievement the beauty of this data and the challenge of satellite data is it points Us in the general direction for further investigation but it's often lagging and it's difficult to um inform quick pivots in instruction um and some examples of satellite level data are standardized and um internal sorry external test scores MCA act AP are all examples of that satellite data attendance patterns and graduation rates are also examples of that satellite level data the map level data is our assessments or evidence that we typically um gather three to four times per school year so it might show that grade level classroom or student group centered patterns of achievement and that data really helps us to identify some skill gaps so our example examples in our district we use the nwaa map test at our Middle School fastbridge at our elementary and those are screening scores some common unit assessments and portfolios can be used as math level data our street level data can be multiple times daily where we are doing some of those informal check-ins it shows realtime student group and individual student blend of quantitative and qualitative data that helps our teachers make those shifts in instructional plans and the challeng with street level data is it's really challenging to generalize and give you nice neat charts and graphs because it is so individualized some examples of street level data are exit tickets classroom discussions feedback surveys progress monitoring scores teacher observations and daily assignment ments before I move away from this comparison what questions might you have for me about satellite map level and street level data I have a question on the map level data so nwaa is for Middle School map and uh fast Bridge or for elementary what do we have for high school so nwaa map is all one thing oh okay to the company and the name of the assessment fastbridge is for Elementary we don't have a standardized screening at the high school part of the reason for that is oftentimes those screening data points that we gather really Plateau as kids are reaching the end of middle school and those schoolwide tests really we're balancing that time on a test versus their utility and so usually the data that we'd want to gather at our high school is going to be more targeted towards smaller groups of students and not schoolwide screening data having said that we are waiting for some guidance from mde connected to the react and we will likely have to do some form of screener for those students who are not yet proficient in the area of literacy and that for us might prompt some additional conversations about how we assess um at a large scale at our high school so at the high school or does anyone have follow so for the high school we really only have the satellite level and the street level um no because our uh teachers have common unit assessments and that's how as a PLC a professional Learning Community they might be looking at in math in this particular course we're going to look at this end of un unit assessment and and that's going to help us understand hey we see some skill gaps in this area we see some strengths here and that's going to help us dig a little bit deeper but it isn't um data that's easy to share like public wide because it's so departmentalized good all right thank you great questions all right so we're going to begin with MCA scores um as you likely remember mca's Minnesota comprehensive assessments are required assessments for students across the state of Minnesota is not a modimed specific thing beginning in grade three we don't do MCA tests in grades K1 and two beginning in grade three and concluding in high schools um students take MCAS in the spring of each year the reason I didn't say specific grades is because it looks slightly different at the high school depending on the assessment as I've shared before the mca's given an indication of the health of our system and points in the general direction of further study we saw scores in both reading and math Hold Steady from 2023 to 2024 both at the state and within our district and so now I'm going to head into the actual data so when we look at math scores the way that you can see this um the yellow scores are the state averages and you can see we progress 2019 the reason we don't have data in 20120 and 2021 is because of the pandemic we didn't do MCAS in 2020 and in 2021 there was much flexibility about opting into that assessment and so the data that we have really isn't statistically viable when we look at Trends and then uh We Begin Again in 2022 23 and 24 so the yellow is the state average the dark blue next to the yellow is all of our grades and for math students in grades three through eight and again in 11 take the MCAS and then the lightest blue is O Middle School is slightly darker and the high school is the darkest yet but not quite as dark as the district as a whole those are thank you for that those are the percent of students who met that proficiency so as you likely recall the MCA um name a score and they can be in one of four levels they can be um does not meet partially meets meets and exceeds and so we combine that um meets and exceeds into one one data point saying they've met that proficiency any child with a score that is does not meet or partially meets then is not part of that group why is that different than all Straits oh those go with that's o oh yeah I had to adjust them because in 2019 when they were in The Sweet Spot of where everything else was they were all squished together I even looked at this earlier when it came out and I still did not put that together okay thank you now yes yeah that is a little bit weird that they're so much higher all right are you um are you do you want a question or do you want to wait I'm happy to do however you would like to I can wait go ahead oh study session you're freefor all right um I'll head to to reading and then we'll pause at MCAS for reading is the same orientation of scores the yellow is the state average the dark blue is our all grades 3 through eight and 10 and then we see um each of the schools U one thing that I would like to share is that when we look at with MCAS again it's intended to be that satellite level data and so the smaller the group The more fluctuation there is so if you're looking at an individual child's score the range in the standard measurement of error is quite large and so we try to make these as big of groups as we can while still making the data meaningful so when we look at the high school there's only one grade level so when we see those changes there's a much smaller number of kids taking those assessments and so you know a few scores up or down will change those percentages where when we look at OHA in the middle school we just have more students in that group and that um the percentages then um balance out some of those highs and lows of changes okay what questions do you have about MCAS um so and I looked at this ahead of time I didn't feel excited I'm just going to put it that way I don't know how to say it other than be that blunt and I'm sure he probably had the same feeling and seeing that obviously we're staying relatively the same but obviously we want to see growth and I know there's been a lot of things put into place to try different things and interventions and things like that and what's working what's not working where are we going to the drawing board again because we need maybe need to rethink some things that's one thing I don't expect you to answer it today I'm not saying that I just am curious and then the second part is this this is not tied to MCAS but I think it's indirectly just how students perform in general obviously we have a huge we had a pandemic in the middle A lot happened there's a lot of things that cause the numbers the way that they are I'm more Curious for us to dig into and have a conversation another time about the trends of like our district and other districts with summative and formative assessment and the percentages of what's summi what's for and those sort of things and the fact that like that was a big thing in that in that change to the 8020 and and like is that working is that impacting how students are performing and the reason why I say that indirectly maybe relating to MCA is I think about this is like a high pressure day this is like a big day and like if a student performs well on a test and or or same sort of thing with the summit of forment not saying we unpack any of that today I'm just more curious as kind of what other school dists are doing are they sticking with that model that was a big change what like 10 years ago I don't know when that was a big push to schools to make that change and because of covid and because of where the situation we're at is there something else that schools are doing that is impacting how students perform on a big summative type um test because again like I said when I started this of course we're all hoping for growth but because we're not seeing we're seeing relatively staying the same and in fact some decline it makes me concerned about what do we need to do to look at things differently as a district here's what I really appreciate about what you've said so I shared with you in that first slide that our satellite level data is really giving us an opportunity to point to generally where do we need to look deeper so I appreciate those questions and those are the questions that are driving that instructional leadership teamw work that I will come back in later October to do my world's best Workforce report and talk about that um but these are the kinds of questions that those groups are digging into and trying to figure out what other data do we have that can help us point to those root causes or what what is making a difference and so truly the this is a great time to ask those kinds of questions so that I can make sure that our teams are investigating those questions as they dig into their school level um and grade level data right so um questions and comments I guess um I guess the first thing is I tend to agree with Kelly right like um a little surprised to see that we've been kind of flat so I'd love to unpack that more and try to understand what the theory is or why we think that might be happen while we think there may not be as much growth as I think we all were hoping for um but more specifically um whether it's math or reading um the O data is probably the one that sticks out the most um math is actually declining at o and then specifically the reading is down six points from 2019 and trending in that direction um obviously as a district we made a pretty significant investment in our literacy tools so I guess my first question specific to O is um do you have any idea or Theory why we're trending in that direction or any guesses at this point and then the second question would be do we have a feel that we should start to see some type of improvement from a reading perspective with the investment we made with the literacy tooling at Wildwood like those kids should be coming through oh here in the next few years right so in my brain that would signal Improvement right yeah just curious if you have any thoughts there yeah so the the thing that I'm seeing when I look at Trends part of what I do is not only look at our data but I look at the data of other school districts and we get information from the state and this is a trend across the state is that stagnation of data and I think it's challenging to hear that we continue to feel the impact of the pandemic we saw from our earliest Learners who had you know challenges with not having that integration with their peers to that change in schooltime foundational skills and so unfortunately the what the research is suggesting is that we're going to see this stagnating trend for quite some time and it's playing out like that in our comparable districts and in the districts around us I know that isn't comforting to hear that well we're just like everybody else because we want to make sure that we're doing right by our kids and we want to do the very best job that we can and it is the reality that this is how it looks for for many of the districts that are in the state of Minnesota when I think about when should we see the return on investment that we're doing for literacy we know that typically when there are implementations of new programs or resources that there's often a dip in our data and this year Year we're we're implementing a new literacy resource last year we did an implementation of ufly so I don't know when we're going to see the return on investment but I am confident that we are going to see an improvement particularly in our literacy skills because of the the knowledge that our elementary teachers have know that with our letters professional learning we have a whole another year of learning that's going going to be next year in order for them to have the comprehensive PD that's expected from the redact statutory language so we have more work to do and we're we have a plan for that we've got our road map set out and we're working on that across the board as far as you know when are we bringing on our secondary folks we're waiting for the state to give us some guidance as to what that professional learning looks like um the hard part is I don't I don't know it's a it's a next to impossible question to answer I get that I guess the only thing I would take exception with is when you look at the state average they've stayed pretty level since 2022 and we've taken a a pretty significant step back at o right so it's not like we're even flat we're trending in the wrong direction I would just follow up on that so I I appreciate that we have a really good literacy road map and plan what do we have an action plan set for Math and also we don't have science included here so I'd like to hear about science yeah so with math we have new standards that have come out from the state and that usually is the Catalyst for the the work that I do with teams so last year was the first year that I started meeting with our math department to help them understand what were the shifts that are coming in the state standards there are a number of years before those new standards will be implemented the the challenge is when you're asking a system to change our elementary folks are doing a lot of work with literacy and it's really hard to ask our same Elementary folks to also do a heavy lift with our math and so we're going to play out our literacy and I will likely focus more of our continuous Improvement at the secondary level in our math so that I can be mindful of the capacity of our teachers at the elementary with regard to math instruction that's science oh thank you um so this data that I shared with you or that I'm sharing with you tonight when I looked at MCAS we were looking at the assessments that are part of our um oh gosh my accountability thank you accountability data science is not an accountability data assessment I can come back in October and share with you science information yeah I think that would be good and especially if they're not looking the way we want then what is our what steps are we taking to improve it I guess I just want to Circle back to the comment I made earlier because I think now that I said that out loud it didn't totally make sense about the summit of informative and the tie to the MCA and what I'm thinking along the lines of the you know if something is 8020 and 20% formative at our secondary schools if I don't care as much as a student about this the formative because I'm like I care about those five unit tests or whatever that might be because that matters so much I just wonder if that and I'm not saying all students don't care about but I just think that I have seen from my own four kids going through school they care maybe less than they do of those summatives knowing that the weight is placed on there that if that mentality adds up to then you only carry about those big things then does that impact our overall MCA scores and the fact that they're studying to the test to the big test and that's that's where I was trying to both and I don't think I articulated that at all I think I was following you though yeah no you're good um so I too I'm I'm I'm concerned just seeing the numbers and not seeing a positive trend but I think what what I might be more concerned about is we've had the you know you you mentioned that this is our opportunity to to really dig in and evaluate and kind of look at what we can do better Etc we've had that opportunity in 20122 you've had that opportunity in 2023 what what do we need to do um if if we are on board that this is this is a tool to to use to um help prepare our kids for the future what do we need to do to see a positive trend going forward we've got we've got data here and it's plat um yeah I don't think you're G to come up with that answer right now but um I think we need to find that answer or put together a plan to find that answer um Ryan took most of the words out of my mouth um except for or in addition to so with the the decodable books all those tens of thousands of dollars that we were granted plus the redact plus youly the next o tests should I mean this should all work and we are hoping the O especially because those Wildwood kids right the next two three the next third fourth and fifth graders that's what we were hoping for with all of this Wildwood Elementary yes money and time so our current thirdd graders who will take the MCA assessment in the spring will have had their very first year of ufly which we know is we improve over time so but they have had their first year of youly and will'll have access to codable books at least partway through the school year last year so over time we will definitely see as kids come through o having had more instruction that's aligned with the science of reading more access to those decodable books more access to the best practices of those resources in you fly and wit and wisdom yes I agree they should and because we can't see it right now in MCA D data are you seeing it in that street level data that that there these progresses are happening yes the the um the qualitative data and by that I would say when Judy Livingston our literacy coach talks to me about um what she's seeing in the small groups that she's working with the high school tutors who come over and are helping with our Kinders um learning some of those initial pieces that they are doing those practice drills and then they're mastering that cont content when I talked to our Wildwood and well our Wildwood teachers last year with youly when they are talking about the growth that they're seeing of kids who understand the how to put words together and take them apart which leads to that word and sentence and paragraph reading they're amazed at what their kids are able to do so yes and they're not at the MCA yet M and does that transfer or translate to math or other subjects in terms of being able to see improvements or progress uh I have not done that analysis but I can certainly jot that down as a question I just mean street level data sorry KY ran um so when I looked at this I I shared with you um just kind of my gut feeling or reaction my bigger gut reaction to this Beyond I mean not just mamei schools but just as the state mamei and then some is we only have 13 years with these kids and so we don't have a lot of opportunity for there's no redos and there's not a and so that's that's what worries me and I worry so much about I know the O data has been brought up but I actually worry more about our kids in high school right now when I look at the reading scores and and those things that that's very alarming to me in mamei and across the state that those kids are going to be in a sense independently doing their own math and reading and working in the world and that this that's the part that we we're looking at like a third of our kids we and we're looking at like a you know the state half of the state and anyway that part to me is is very concerning that we just have such a short time frame the O I'm not saying we should play around and fix it slowly because we have more time but high school we really don't have time GNA move on you think of things you certainly can ask so the next set of data that I want to talk about is our act data so one of the things that we do is we use the minsu and Minnesota state colleges and universities benchmarks for proficiency and they note that a math level of 22 reading 21 in English at 18 are typically what they see as kids coming into State the the college and university system are least likely to need um some lower level classes so they're on track for college readiness so when we look at our data because students take some students take the ACT at multiple times it's really hard to just put that into one chart so for ease of reporting we take a look at the one um sitting for the act when the Juniors take the tests in April at our school it's our controlled environment um if we were to look bigger picture we wouldn't have the whole picture because some students take their assessments well into their senior year and so this is how we can standardize the assessment so 87% of our students total student population took the act in 2024 um 93% tested in 2023 and 95% tested in 22 that's just um context for you as far as how many students choose to assess um since the pandemic in 2020 many colleges and universities stopped using the ACT which might be a reason why we have seen a decline in the number of students who choose to sit for the assessment because it's just not for some not worth their time to take the test even though it's at school and it's free um and um many students beyond the pandemic have remained test optional there are conversations happening with some of those Elite universities of whether or not they bring back act as part of their admissions package and that's just going to play out how it does but that's the the foundational context for act so in the next chart you'll see that but the yellow with the Stars are the percentage of students who are meeting all three mincu benchmarks and then um the chart at the top will tell you that math is the darkest blue with circles English which is really more of that um editing piece it's grammar and and punctuation those that's the lightest blue with the triangle and then reading and comprehension is the middle blue with the square so again this represents Juniors who took the ACT during that April High School administered test and um off to the side I've listed again those incue benchmarks as with all satellite data this again gives us an opportunity to ask questions so that we can dig into other data that might help us provide answers to those questions what questions do you have we always use the Minnesota state benchmarks as far as since I've been here that um Christina Boyce who has been putting data together for us for many years that's the marker that she has consistently used prior to me coming in okay I could remember thank you yes um thank you for including ACT scores is this the first time we evaluated or compared them I don't remember we have in the past um ACT scores I think have been in when I did the teaching and learning newsletter that was that was a part of it but it was a tiny little square on one of the pages um I mean what I take away is it's a similar Trend compared to the MCAS right lower than we were pre pandemic um and it doesn't appear as if there's a positive trend that's what I take away um yeah that's my comment um just as some additional context for ACT we've seen nationally a decline so they look at test scores in ranges and there has been a decline in scores in the ranges of 16 to 19 20 to 23 and 24 to 27 and Across the Nation a significant increase in scores in the 1 to 15 range um all other ranges have really held steady so if we look at that super highend that's pretty much it where um they've held study it was as I looked at that particular bit of research that one to 15 decrease was um or increase in the number of student students who score in that range it was much higher than the decline in those other three ranges uh when we look at Minnesota data um it's a different report shows that over the past four years we really saw as a state a decline in the number of students meeting multiple benchmarks and when we look at at least the last two years we've seen a you know that steady and not a decline we know that we're not where we were before I appreciate that we're not trending like we see nationally and as a state and just keep dropping good point does it cause you concern or do you feel like we're you're internally the steps are there or we're just we've got to re reassess some things like where how do you when you look at it do you think nope we're going to like the literacy you know those things just haven't taken place yet but for the other areas do you feel like nope we've got the right things in place or are you thinking we've got to reassess and change some things so if I had a magic wand I would want to change what we look at for satellite data like satellite level data I think about our portrait of a graduate and how that really encompasses what we are looking to grow in our student body and when we can see students over time building portfolios and showing that evidence being able to somehow analyze that at a bigger picture will give us data that's meaningful these are the things that we really want to see in our students and and I think there is um an internal innate sense of value with kids to see that sort of growth in themselves I anecdotally our high school teachers are sharing that you know when they watch students take the tests there's just a lack of Engagement in those standardized tests because it's not not for them it doesn't for many kids it doesn't do anything for them where the act for those kids who are um you know looking to go after scholarships and for some schools who may consider the ACT it's a meaningful assessment for many it's not a meaningful assessment anymore because it's not that you have to earn this score in order to get into this University it's it's more of a financial aid assessment than it than it used to be I think even with the portrait of a graduate we still want to see that subject material at above proficiency and trending you know on the right Trend so in terms of in those improvements or hoping to see those improvements are we are we taking all the right steps or or does there need to be a rein maybe I'll jump in a little bit here um I at the and I think we're mostly talking about we're talking about a few things here you know we're talking about the literacy which I think we've talked enough about right are we talking mostly at the second if math um so our math curriculum that we use um K5 I am surprised by the scores in math in at o because we do have a really strong curriculum um K5 in uh math and I do wonder I so question I might have are um did we have some teachers who are new to teaching the curriculum this past year we do oftentimes when you see um new teachers with the curriculum that we have it there is a bit of a learning curve with it because um it's more conceptual based and if you're trained as a in a traditional way you might not um it takes takes a year or so to get the hang of it so so I am surprised by our o math and so there I mean I know that they're looking at that and and um also talking about are they hitting all the standards so it's not that students aren't learning meaningful math it might be that they didn't hit all the standards the way they should have this past year um so truthfully I'm not super concerned about I think that's going to take I think they're going to look at it that's a um an area where I think we have a lot of um expertise within the building and I think there's an opportunity to work together to to to write that ship there um I know our Middle School um our middle school math staff really um saw a need for more intervention for students last year and they started going after that um in the spring and I would anticipate doing more of that this year they did a lot more after school opportunities with kids um and that came up more in the spring but I think we'll see that even more now um so that's you know with middle scho I think that's the case um I will say that um I know the Middle School Math teachers are have been working more on retakes and more formative work to um set that back on um track for the MCA I think the ACT if I um when we look at the trends I do think it's really impacted by the fact that it wasn't um I meaning it wasn't a test that was required in our district we have a lot of students who take that test multiple times before the time they take it um in April so that that used to be the case it was not as much the case these past couple of years not as many kids were taking the test so um I do know that um that had that definitely had something to do with it however so all all that um is to say that we do have we do have work to do on all of this um I know our um High School School staff is we increased Flex time and is looking at doing more intervention during during that time um being able to give more support to students also um so there are things that PE I don't I won't say that staff is sitting and just admiring the problem our staff is looking at it and saying what can we do differently um I know some math classes again we added math staff because in particular um there were some areas that we wanted to support students better so um so there's there's there's always a lot to do and um there are a lot of different there are a lot of different factors that are coming into play for this for the ACT if that's where we go back to that one um we've also met with um someone um to give more support to students in PR preparing for the act as a possibility for something that we can do for all students not just the students who can afford it um so that's another another thing that we've been exploring um at maybe um in part so we have we're still talking about how that could look in part um you know if we're going to invest in this as a district we'd also want the ACT to be something that is valued by students and by higher education as well is the act coming back we we don't know that entirely yet it goes back and forth so um I think I I I don't even remember where I started when I started going so if I didn't answer your question I can go back okay because I know I I know I just started going there Barb can I just dig into something you said a little bit about math at o you were surprised by the scores so that made me think yikes well the oh math special for the high math Learners just retired so is that spot filled with oh this is a both of you please do you then look at your teachers in that grade when someone retires who's the math person do they then do you talk to all the teachers in that section and say all right who's good at math here who wants the who wants to take math everyone's good at math that works that's right we're all good at math we're all good at math Jenny you know that's the motto throughout the district everyone can do math right you see what I'm asking yes there are comprehensive conversations about who is uh who is interested who feels like they have the capacity and the the skill set in order to um Shepherd those high-end kids along and we have great fits in both fourth and fifth grade for those um and we have great and we have great um teachers to Shepherd all of our students along so we we're talking about a tier one um situation here it's that all students were looking at in the classroom um classroom at at at grade level it's not just our students who are at higher levels beond I didn't mean to do the high the gifted and talented kids I meant in each section they kind of switch around for some teachers switch around for Math and English right is that a you meet with the section and say who's interested in math that's a Susie conversation that's a Susie okay staff so I guess I have one last piece that I know this is more the reporting on where we're at with the data thinking about where we could go to um a question I have for us to unpack and look at is again I brought up the point of limited time with secondary students to me I feel as though the students who are per Performing well in MCA and or act and then we haven't even gotten to the AP they're probably all that same bucket those kids would perform well no matter where what environment they were in whether they're modern Medi schools or somewhere else many of those students just are high- performing Scholars I worry about our kids in the middle there kids who are lower have the intervention things in place but I worry a lot about not just I know Avid is one strategy but it's only one and I think that there's there's so many students who are aren't taking an avid elective and there's so many there's so many students that fit in that bucket that I think that we need to think about that larger net of that group to me that's the that's the population I'm most concerned about with this data because that's probably representing the majority of why our data is stagnant I would if I had to guess but again I'm kind of guessing you know the other challenge I I I can't help myself is the um the MCA is given to 11th grade students regardless of what class they're in so some of our students um are in a very appropriately placed math class that is um has not hit all of the standard and they have not hit all the standards by 11th grade they may hit them by 12th grade and that's appropriate because our high school math um standards are very high Minnesota math standards at the high school level are very high compared to nationally um so it is appropriate for our kids to um complete those standards in 12th grade and they still have to take the test in 11th grade so that's one we also have students that are well beyond the standards and they have they've moved on they're taking their classes that they don't want to be bothered with the um MCA and we you know twist their arm and try and get them to come and some of them do but not all of them and so there I mean there is a system problem with the MCA math at the high school level because of course requirements which is different than um like a reading test which is not it it can be very different so um I just can't help myself I just want to be clear that there are ways that we support our students um and part of supporting the students is to um hit the standards by the time they leave us they might just not hit it by the time they're in 11th grade and that's I mean since the pandemic I'll say that we have more students everywhere where they're they need some a little extra time and that's okay well and to kind of add on to what you're saying there's tremendous flaws in the MCA there's so many things and there's biases and all sorts of things but I'm just looking at data year-over year and so that's the part that's consistent and the and I would love to say that you know I love the profile of a graduate piece and the yes and like not one or the other but the yes and both yeah so to be I to be clear if I I also believe that I want students achieving at high levels on math standards I just want us to be clear about sometimes it takes kids longer and I don't want us to see I don't want kids to feel as though they have failed if they have not met those standards until 12th grade because that is that is appropriate and we do have more kids that need more support right now so um so am I hearing you correctly that in years past we had more students going through our school who were meeting the those standards earlier we have a larger population of kids now who it takes them until graduation to maybe reach all the standards we may we may but again the other thing is as we've gotten better at um encouraging students to take to personally go after you know Sentry classes or taking um math classes earlier um that's another component of it but yes I do think that we have students who um need more time right now especially after pandemic and that it's it's what it is and we do have a we have a limiting um high school schedule we have a six period day when um there which is why we looked at changing this high school schedule it's challenging so it's challenging to you know like if we look at say wise out a schedule which still has the four um four classes and four quarters that we used to have way back in the day that people Miss um there's more flexibility there a seven period day has more flexibility for more of that um so I'm going off task I know that but I just want us to also have some context on that as well and I don't want students I guess that's right that's that's what the button was that pushed me um was I don't want students feeling as though if they're not hitting the standards by 11th grade that they're somehow not going to be prepared because they can be prepared um it just may take them a long time so uh this isn't even a question so hopefully this is brief but you had requested the science data hopefully at some point um is it possible to get kind of one cut deeper data because when I look at the state average bar on the MCA charts I just it it seems like it should be compared against like the state a average for grades three through five if we're going to compare o and 6 through eight if we're going to compare middle school versus comparing against the entire State average does that make sense so whether we can do it by grade level or if we're going to group it by mamei schools can we compare it against State average by the same groups just so we can get a feel for what the trend is compared to um the state over the last you know four or five years um it would be challenging to gather like three through five the state report card can report by grade level and then for us that becomes a really small group that fluctuates year to year that's why we looked at it as a school I can see what I can do to to pull that together if it's possible if we could even just get it emailed to review at some point um and I think I know the answer to this one but that group of peer schools that we tend to try to compare ourselves against whether it's the ACT data or the MCA data we have are we able to access any of that to see how we're tracking in comparison to those districts or is that that's still something that we can't track down we can we can look at that yeah it's on the it's on the um it's on the report card because if nothing else maybe there's something that they're doing that we could replicate or something like that like I'm just trying to think outside the box to see if there's something else out there so if you haven't checked out the state report card it's pretty powerful and then you can select which schools and kind of compare them so if you just search um online MD I think it's like State C card is that what it's called it's it's pretty great data out there um but yeah I mean that would be great to see some of that I can show you how that works all right I'm moving us on to the last piece that I'm going to talk about tonight is high school advanced placement so I have for you in this chart the courses that we offer that are AP courses I think it's important to recognize that the College Board needs to approve that moniker ad of advanced placement so we can't have an advanced placement business class because that doesn't exist we have to do what the College Board has in their list and there is a rigorous course audit process so they review the course syllabus they review the teachers credentials um and I think I think it's also important to recognize that school students who take those AP courses because of the way that they are organized and written and packaged the students get familiar with college level work they develop those college readiness skills like time management critical thinking scholarly writing that's part of that AP um moniker if you will so I compiled for you the number of students who took AP exams this is across the school the high school from grades 9 to 12 although there um ninth grade there are limited opportunities in AP courses so we typically see students who are taking AP classes at the Junior and senior level the number ex of exams that were taken by those students and then the average score of all of those exams and then AP puts out uh percent of exams with scores of three or higher because that's typically the mark of if you earn a three or higher for most schools who accept AP that's where that's the The Leverage point to earn college credit so that is our our chart of 2020 to 2024 of the number of AP classes we offer and I think it would be at some point a really good idea to include that in one of our Publications just where we compare with other districts because the the amount of classes and I guess the variety of classes we offer I I think we're we're probably like one of the best I mean we have some of the best offerings maybe I'm missing something but I think for a school our size we really do offer an impressive number of AP courses have AP pre Kelk this year yes that's new to to the College Board too yeah yes I think it was was it new last year the first year they offered it I believe so and we heard the proposal and it's in effect this [Music] year any questions for me here all right so as a I've shared with you before each August our school's instructional leadership teams come together and they review satellite and map level data they set their continuous Improvement areas for the school year this year the middle school and the high school continue to focus on organizational strategies that are part of our new Avid programming um that is not their only goal um but that is a a continued focus and like we all have heard a lot about our elementary schools continue to focus on their literacy programming connected to the react when I come back to do the world's best Workforce report in late October which is prior to the school board meeting not at at the school board meeting I will walk through some of those initiatives and and plans that were in place last year and um share with you the data about how we're making progress in those areas so as we wrap up we did a lot of stop and ask questions what um will be helpful for me to know is which of the satellite data seems most valuable to you as a school me Schoolboard member and what would it be helpful to better understand in addition to the questions that you've already asked I'm just going to say quickly I think the big takeaway that I would hope you get from me and I think we all all feel this way is because it's hard for us to have a good context with satellite data and we can't really capture the street data because it's too individualized is there any way that we can really have something shared with us that we can see this is our students are on track towards the ultimate goal of graduating proficient and with you know obviously we have all these other things we want them to achieve but in terms of what we think these tests capture and what we really still don't always get to see if if there's a way to capture that in especially probably at that High School level I feel like we see see it a little bit better with those because those younger grades have those tests that we can see so that's what I would take away from that time than J can I get a motion oh move by director doen second second by director Peterson all those in favor say I