##VIDEO ID:CPBfyDOmA7E## 7:00 and I will call the finance committee meeting to order on Wednesday September 18th um I have with me in the room Dean htis myy kraton Tom Parkins Peter Twining and myself Sarah melish and on Zoom is Andy olderman and Mike brat is that correct that's correct yep here thank you great okay um so the first item on the agenda was to is to discuss the budget book format um I want to give some input to Andrea before it's too late in case she needs to have them change the print format um so I'm I think we kind of struggled with it when we were going through the budget I think that the budget book has two purposes one is to be a general introduction for both the select board and the finance committee um and then the other is for us to use for the actual um review of the budget um so I don't know if people have thoughts you know I kind of for for I'm thinking there almost need to needs to be two one for the original with all the bar graphs and stuff and then maybe one for us to work off without all of the pictures I don't know was going to ask that the capital budgets be to the extent possible put with the operating budget so you're working on say DPW and you flip the page you're looking at the capital budget that they're asking for or the library or whatever it may be at least in my clumsiness I found it awkward to always pick out what was happening in the capital which is I know separately reviewed but at the same time very relevant to the review of that I know it's can't be perfect but I I would agree with that the other one is from revenue sometimes the revenue various departments is buried in government or so you know for example like beach Revenue would be good to have referenced on the beach Pages or the parks and W right yeah yeah exactly I had that comment as well that be nice to see what the revenue is associated with the operating budget okay because I think it's shown by where it's collected that's right exactly yeah um which is how she does the books um anything else I I was kind of confused as we went along I can find one there were kind of times when there was a total and then there were sub total sections and I found that confusing and I don't know if that's a function of oh like DPW had trash collection and then sanitation and then there were like a couple of different subtasks that was is that what you mean sah trying to find what was confusing me so much it seemed to me that we had one page and then a second page I guess it was the breakdown between the various within a department yeah that had the total at the front and I guess that's because that's how we actually put the budget on the sort of warant driven as opposed to sometimes manager Andy oh Andy go ahead yeah so um as you know I've been trying to use the uh digital format the last couple years since they've been offering it and um I I find that you know the the bar charts and all that kind of stuff the pie charts they're initially you know sometimes interesting to look at but I would love to be able to um not see them generally you know so we can just you know kind of because cutting to the chase is just being able to look at the uh you know the the spreadsheet the tables that have all the the numbers in them and then I was going to also say um ultimately if we have you know these different thoughts it' be useful to if we could get you know Andrea to participate in a meeting and you know because she's the one that inputs all that stuff and and she manages the clear gov uh stuff I think the books now come they're did they're printed out print out from the cleargov uh site yeah yeah and so what do we need hi an hi um what do we need after the initial budget presentation for changes what format do we want those changes we want a spreadsheet we want PDFs of the clear go what do we want we've been getting like updated spreadsheet like toward the end where we get the final reconciliation and the Articles and stuff that yeah my concern is that I don't think it's updated as frequently as our meetings right to get the latest I mean if we're working in a paper world we get updated pages right that we can staple into the existing one I find i' I've done it both ways electronically and Page wise I find electronic helpful to skim through really quickly yeah but very hard to update okay and and I think yeah I can't make notes in it I think one of the problems we've had with capital and other things is you know if you're re revising a document you need a really good revision system like an engineering revision system and it's really I think it's very easy to say okay in January we on the 20th we updated the the electronic version on February 2nd we updated it again but oh we backed out these numbers and something we thought we had done before it's changed and that's gets crazy complicated and we get to that last meeting or two before we go to print and Gail or Greg is holding us to the fire going now we still need to revote this and we still need to revote that we're all like remind us of the numbers again it gets a little I agree Little Numbers has revised revised once or twice and rethought right every time document gets touched it needs to be noted so we want updated PDFs with a summary of changes or just look at them online no Andy who operates off his tablet on on the online ones would would you have the original and then a revised pavor would just substitute it out and make the change I like put r where are you accessing the online are you going into cleargov or using you using the PDFs um usually I'll go to clear go okay yeah can you see the changes no no okay no it's not evident there's there's no chain of custody for for changing it's just a new rev I mean you you look at it compared to the old one you might have printed out and say they've changed or they haven't changed it that's how it's got catch it yeah maybe you put a REV in a date with the page number when they changes in color or something something to get a little more okay series 2.1 series 2.2 just keep up I guess the question might be to Andrea is there some sort of a similar kind of notation and formatting approach in accounting you know for tracking changes yeah yeah she's running everything on a spreadsheet yes which I like and then she it's my understanding then she uploads the spreadsheet to clear go but have the process correct and it just automatically goes to the right Pages or the spreadsheet is the I think the spreadsheets database right and it just populates everything yeah so that would make the Rev stuff difficult the advantage of that is as you're looking at the spreadsheet you can you can save a prior rev and pull it up if you need to makes it a little easier and then for quick math it's always nice when you're working spreadsheet to go well that number just changed I wonder what it looked relative to last year and just find an empty cell and run your quick little math on it um she I think she has a com comments column so she might be able to put in the comments column things that have changed or something like that yes okay and particularly if the the previous year when is itself being recast slightly the comments could include a reference to any changes that have some implication in terms of the numbers we're working for for last year because I find sometimes even during the year that there's some we find that number gets refreshed and revised slightly I believe so I I do find it confusing as we looked back on the prior year I'm sure I understand what the number was yeah I think she has something a spreadsheet where she has the original appropriation for a year and then she has amendments that happen at subsequent Town meetings focusing on that but I find it okay and there other things just as I get familiar with incom operations keeping track of what 1% of the tax rate is worth I mean some some Benchmark items I know they get mentioned but they keep getting asked because people like me forget them uh where we are with free cash where we are with Reserve I know it gets announced but her her spreadsheet has all those tabs right um I don't know if she update she doesn't update reserves as we're going through the the reserves are updated in a weird way because um they're updated as of July 1 based on what we voted at an April town meeting for the next year so she's not giving us the we don't get an end of the fiscal year Reserve number and that's because the July 1 is what has to be certified by the state yeah um so I find that confusing I do because it's an estimate I mean if if reserves were almost done like a trial balance you know it's another little cell just yeah you know it's not we're holding you to it but it just helps us understand where all these rules I find I suppose it depends on whether she could have a separate tab on her worksheet that carries that I know that sometimes she's had separate tabs for um it is really complicated because it pulls from all sorts of different places and different ways yeah you know there's cap that's been stuff that's carried over right that I find very confusing oh okay I'll sit down with her and kind of see what kind of input she has since she's the one that has to do it for us but I I I just think it's um we need more updated changes yeah you get confused did you have any comments on that mic nope nope just taking it all in okay just making sure you're awake yep thank you checking on me I mean I I will say this yeah uh I I really like the idea of any like I think moris said the beach thing like but any department where there's like an inflow a revenue and an outflow having those both on the same P like I even think of the Parking Clerk thing like I think I bring it up every year it' be nice to know you know how much the Parking Clerk brings in in revenue on the same page that we see how much we spend on it just so that we know if it's like right you know net net cost of cash flow you know so Beach Revenue ticket Revenue I can't think of all of them but okay yeah I think the yeah I think it's a challenge for because I think looks differently I think the question is is how can we get we need without making it be a major like like the harbor the harbor would be another one right where you know because like on the one hand you looking at how much you know we spend on right that department but then there's there's all the fees right there's the moing fees and the daa fees and I can't even think of all the but same kind of thing right yeah are the you worked with Harbor last year right Peter are the harbor frees going into the waterways fund or does that only occur at town meeting don't have a clear answer because I think some of the horror fees are handled in different ways okay I think Bing fees are handled in one way and other fees such as the more the dockage fees are handled in a different way so I don't I don't have a clear maybe an you do but I don't have a clear sense in the answer to your question the certainly um the launch service is kept completely seate Y and I think that the dockage is also it's certainly accounted for separately because um before encouraging him to put out more floats we wanted to know exactly how much he took in and exactly how much he spent on people who were at the do dock but it may be that Bion keeps those numbers separately for himself y um so I would check with Andrea okay I think one of the things I've always had a brain cramp on is is um heart revenue or moing fees and if at all how they're applied to Harbor stuff and and I always struggle with is that how what's that crossover because they're sort of like you know we hear about Waring feed is being put away for dredging and other things and yet we also hear self-funded Harbor and I always struggle with where all these bucks we don't see the moing fees in our Revenue number right right I don't think the mor be the show see why why why not thought the I don't I'm just saying I don't think I don't think it's in the information in the budget book yeah no and I'm agreeing with you like it should be right I mean right right do we do you see the revenue from um yep we do yep that's a separate line item on the accounting records and I think that's because it has something to do with State reporting same tax on votes no that's a personal property tax it gets swept into it's personal property I think that's rise to excise so so excise taxes on boats get swept into kind of the big bucket of excise taxes along with cars and everything else I don't know but where you can see it in is in the finance committee report and the budget where it it tells you waterways fees were used for this much of this and this much of that but it doesn't tell you what goes we never see what goes into the waterways I think is what we're saying um I'm looking at budget yeah and I don't see any Revenue shown under every now and then we get a spreadsheet of like the reserve account about what what contributes into it and I thought I saw different things earmarked and put on there but I don't think it's in the budget book it was like in spreadsheet right that's in the that's in like the quarterly report yeah the the ongoing the budget is really supposed to be just a summary of the prior year with the proposed budget for the current year and then there's a lot of in other information we need to look at okay so I'll try to figure out what the best way is to get that kind of information so we have it going okay I don't promise it I'll solve all our issues but I'll work on it so just as a quick I just look this up very quickly boat X size is listed separately and in not in the budget no but it's a revenue Source it's about 14,800 is that her spreadsheet yeah yeah this is the one we got leading or two ago so it's about 14,800 which is significantly a small part of what the harbor um is on a regular basis so I'm not sure where the morning number or where it's present [Music] okay I'll see what we need to do to get some of that type of information it may be separate document or something you know depending on okay we finished with the budget components okay for this meeting um next topic on the agenda is to discuss the MBTA communities act fiscal analysis um we looked at it some at the last meeting Corey was Mory was going to do things I think I think Sarah you and I were going to sit down and do something between now and my recollection was like October 10th okay and The Hourglass is is dripping sand but we need we need to get on this okay um so I so the we did a fiscal analysis for the SLV project right that up right which was off of number of bedroom units estimated number of people and number of students per current residents and then extrapolated into the guesstimate of how many new students it would be um the when I look at the rate of change analysis um there are relatively small number of new units projected to be in the downtown area I I think there's only one um like yeah yeah um yeah the C Street one stands out well so it it it seems to me that if we for the in town units since the state is assuming a th square feet that if we look at these properties and then try to figure figure out how many units there might be I mean my feeling is is if you're talking a potential of a small number of new units in the downtown area that's really not going to affect the expenses the one that's going to affect it is the Beaver Dam Road you're not talking about schools here you're just talking about I'm I'm talking about based on the small number of additional units in the downtown area right that that's not really going to impact the schools by the time you do your calculation of the new units and the number of potential students and the fact that for the most part our classes are undersized I I was left this probably what you're saying but I'm not quite understanding when we did the SLB calculation I had translation or you all have translation of how many would be three bedroom units or two or one bedroom right I'm missing that okay translation so in the compliance model they're assuming a th000 square feet per unit um so I think if we can kind of figure out how many new units are in the various places in this this downtown area and if the average is a th000 square feet it seems to me me you're really talking one and two beds is that the average or the minimum no the calculation is based on a th000 square feet so if you have a 2,000 foot building now and you're adding one unit you're adding one a 1,000 square foot unit if you're completely redoing a unit then maybe You' got a total of 3,000 square feet or 4 ,000 and then you can split it up into different size units if you if you so desire and of course you can build a larger building if it meets setbacks yeah setbacks and coverage yeah but I don't think we want to go there I was I think that's too complicated yeah I agree I was wondering if you yeah I think it's it's complicated and I think it gets you bad and in unlikely result right and unfortunately this preliminary report did not have any timeline to it you're attempting to get a timeline but I think reality is nothing's going to be a super quick time there was a time discussed in the last meeting I thought it made great deal of sense I think maybe more you put it forward like the first three years or like 10% or I mean there was some 20 or 25 years and then 25% 10 years this act mandates this being completed by the end of the year the zoning the zon yeah zoning needs to be in place well we need to pass it by the end of the year on um then the state has to approve it I haven't really heard what the timeline is for State approval what I was reading was it has to be approved by the attorney general and by the end of the year which I'm not sure we have to we have to have passed it we are not going to be penalized for the fact that the state takes a while to review our results we shouldn't start building offering permits we can't based on we we can't because all zoning changes have to be approved by the Attorney General's office before they're in effect so presumably the attorney's general office will work with the EOL CD whatever in the name um and so attorney general won't approve it to the other entity has approved it so I don't expect it to be super fast sometimes it takes us five or six months so we're not staring to B deadline our deadline is to get it passed and in order to have it come before town meeting we need to have done the fiscal analysis and have made that available to the public in advance of any voting the reality is States deal like 171 commun7 and they're a little backed up they're they're doing and our our town meeting in April of 23 we didn't get approval for the zoning changes from the attorney general until September 29th that was just normal year so they're not super fast so we're not looking at the sudden influx of students in in the September of 25 no no no you'd be surprised if it was 28 or 29 before you really saw any influx from this I I think that um you know there's I have a house that's gone up next to me that was two and a half years from the time they closed until the time they moved in so building's not super fast how many kids did they bring zero um you know so so I think the house on the other side me sold in September of 23 and they hope to have it done in 202 end of 2025 so building takes a long time yeah I think it depends on what building you know they places around town where people are buing down I call perfectly good houses and building big huge monstrous things and they take two or three years and there's a lot of equipment but if you go in other areas it is remarkable how quickly they do stuff like for example on Pine Street yep that that happened really quickly and um wasn't it close to a year though was it I I thought it was like this this the one where they first built a huge garage and then built the house right yeah they sold it they sold it and and they ended up having to rip out the hole insides right um I mean you probably have a better idea on the permitting side of the whole thing but you have to start with permitting and then and then you know and these are all distributed through the community so you know for the most part it's a th000 feet here and a th000 feet there and and you know going to be the develop right and you need the site plan review from the planning board develop couple months could be the home owner right right so in these cases it could be very much be the homeowner as oppos to some big entity out right yeah certainly the end to on um this has to be within a half mile walking distance of no no 18.6 Acres well it it's it's 50% has to be within half 14 has to be with has to be within the circle yeah little over 14 and the rest can be anywhere in town the task force has chosen to put all but Seven Acres inside well there are pieces that kind of sneak over the edge but um so we are we are well within the requirements for locality of the transation and the assumption is on the Beaver Dam Road one the zoning has a cap of 100 units so this report assumed that 100 units could be built there and would yeah it would seem to me that we would want to assume a mix of units there similar to what was at SLV I mean that seems to me realistic just say something veryimportant we have to make some assumptions here okay because I looked at be and I wondered what assumption I mean what's just arbitrary I mean how do you're going to apply SL the ratios I gather well that that's I think typical of a large apartment complex yeah I I I'd agree with Sarah on that I mean whatever we assume for SLV I think it was OB what was it like 130 units I know was like a little more but but high level like I'm fine with what we what we assume for that because you know yeah I know what we did on that one so yeah that's we had we start with 151 units and then they re re oriented down to I think 137 I think 136 36 136 okay and then um and then there were certain number of three bedrooms two bedrooms and one bedroom they ratioed out two bedrooms and three Mark well and I went through pretty exhaust they made an assumption and your assumptions I think we came up with about 90 to 92 students in the system and your assumptions were slightly different than what the rkg of Newton had yeah and then then the Builder came back and said well no it's going to be seven students so we fig we' pin the ends of the spectrum here um right if so more if you think about it we almost came in at one per unit because you're averaging like right one bedroom units two bedroom units three but when you just kind of when you blend it all right our numbers came up with almost one per unit at on the average high level average right um it wasn't that it wasn't that high I think we took one-bedroom units off the list and then we did a ratio of two bedrooms we assumed and then three bedrooms we assumed more kids we assumed 50 new students 5 Z 3177 new residents and based on the percentage of students we have today we assume 50 new students 50 students out of what was it 130 roughly 136 units yeah okay so actually I'm so it's more no that was actually this was actually done based on the 157 units not the not the 136 that sounds that sounds low so we would come in with less than 50 and of course there's a huge difference between SLV which was a project before us and a beaver dam property which SOB who knows whether the property owner wants to sell right right right right yeah yes they're closer to reality and some of the assumptions are understood but yeah still left a little bit I guess we just simply as you say create ratios but I don't know how many units so you take the limit to 100 units the max is 100 so do you assume that they're 1,000 what or two how do you know I'm suggesting that we use the same blend of units as SLV did between Studios one bedrooms two bedrooms and three bedrooms because they're not the developer would not be restricted as to the size of the units they're capped on the number of units yeah for Bea Dam right but for the rest of the town I think we talked last meeting that it's so distributed amongst the existing housing stock we were going to just like linearize it off population because you know by the time you go down C Street go down Union and figure out this is 900 this is 400 would be immensely complicated um you do it but given time and resources thinking maybe Express that again you so give me give me a little more concrete example of what you're saying so so for for these zoning proposed zoning changes which would affect the the current density of housing in town rather than try and go after every single unit and figure out was 400 feet here would that be a two bedroom or a one-bedroom it just do it on population do it calculated on the number of new expected units and versus the existing number of dwelling units and using that ratio to determine how many students there might be it's like a top down approach as opposed to irrelevant what the size isbe there's I know 125 or something here or something I'm excluding Beaver Dam I'm looking at the other small number okay so assume that number is 35 I've forgotten it now 34 34 okay you compare that to the town in R the 2350 odd units we have and say we have X number of students for the current dwelling units how many new students would there be for the newwell 34 units to ratio yeah it's all you can do in planning estimate now do we do that for be Dam Road also and not try to figure out the size of the units I think Bieber Dam could have more could potentially have more students than that number because they're they're designed as multi-bedroom right types of units yeah okay now the one thing we did for SLV though I think is we took the total school budget y divided by the number of students and came up with Manchester yes but now that was pretty much higher than everyone else's because there's this efficiency Factor we come up with any reference on whether to use 75% or maybe on this one well you're right the Newton one used a percentage right yeah it was pretty low it was like 63 or something and there was a little bit of wrangling about whether we look at just operating or whether we look at operating in debt just operating right I Deb why did we not add Deb to that because it was like the argument about incrementally incremental ads so if you already have a class of you know 16 students the 17th isn't going to make a whole lot of difference I'm yeah and you could also make the Assumption which I don't think we want to go there but you could also make the Assumption well if you're going to have more students in town you're not going to have the choice school choice students which are currently filling the classrooms and I don't know what that's up to now but that's almost the same number of new students as it would be more General increased I can't remember what the number is that now yeah it's still low given the know given the experience we got into about 10 years ago we had almost 80 students in the system my recollection if you look it up is more like 30 at the moment they were adding 10 or something yeah yeah um it was over 100 at one point but okay that's kind of irrelevant because the choice students they just won't take in New New Choice students if if they're seeing a development like Beaver Dam all at once yeah but what I'm arguing in is okay if you if you have aund let's say if you're expecting 50 new students and because you have a new development you're going to take in 50 less um then you're not going to have the incremental cost because you're just filling the seats of the the school choice kids yeah you know but that's a little but but but it wait but at the same time you're losing the state funding on the school choice kid it's only 5,000 a student yeah no I'm just saying but you just got to factor that into the M right yeah yeah and the state's going to be funding the the districts where they have all these immigrants coming in that you're going to favor those districts this year I think the funding one they're gonna have to so they've already announced what we're going to get yeah it's more because they have for last for this for this upcoming FIS so we're getting more yeah I see a huge amount more but but Beaver isn't going to hit Manchester for 10 years like that the big takeaway when I read that analysis was right at the beginning when they said by law that that they can they're capping the number of affordable units at 10% well we're doing 20 okay because well they say you can do that with a feasibility analysis and that's one of the reports I sent you was that feasibility analysis for affordable housing and that came in that we had no issue with using the 20% okay good and that's what was submitted to the state on the initial draft that's ke because we don't want to be chasing our tail with that right yeah and that would be only apply to stuff being built a five or more units because 20 % would be one of five so if it's under five you wouldn't get to that 20% and that's going to discourage people from five building five unit exactly so theoretically it's pretty much Beaver Dam and I think that there was the one by Newport Park that maybe had 11 new UNS was assumed 13 yeah and then there was Elm Elm had 10 yeah but those were two lots yeah two lots also is complicated yeah but the the only assumption for new units wasin those two Lots at the front ah okay okay so those are go to four stories what that no yeah the four stories is only for actual Newport Park no it is includes those two lots in front that's part of the district that's part of the subdistrict to bring that with me um I thought well we don't need to figure that out here you might want to consider additional setback requirements for something that high that's not our issue so what are the other thoughts on this see the impacts very minimal and quite delayed I mean just to put it in general terms I was curious on some backup like on all those Prof foras toward the end where they just have like a lump some for the operational costs wondering if there's some backup on trying what are you talking about I'm sorry D okay on the economic feasibility Newton yes is that what you're talking about or you talking about for the affordable housing well it's this analysis that they which I sent out two reports right economic feasibility not the propensity for Chang economic feasibility for affordable housing but yeah that's the yeah so they had all the um performers toward the back with 15 units and 40 units and but I was trying to look at like what for the DPW are we going to need to improve intersections or widen sidewalks or put in lights and you know there's just kind of lumpsum numbers and I was trying to look at what might you know break down what some of those costs might be to throw them in there um yeah but I think what we're saying with this is there are so few units spread out throughout the downtown area that there wouldn't be an impact the potential impact would be beaverdam road which is conveniently off of atwat road which is being addressed by CS sidewalk issue yeah um I think the value of the the newon um is more about ratioing than absolute numbers but their absolute numbers are pretty scary and they don't they don't fit to us right but the ratioing well they're dealing with the challenge with that is they're dealing with a completely different type of construction than we're talking about you know they've got big potential for very large developments and we don't have that I think it would be helpful if you had some statement about the impact on water sewer yep police fire matters but my guess is it's minimal in all of those well we um did that for CST we met with police and fire and there was no impact on their budgets and water and sewer DPW said there was no impact so we just need to circle around and confirm that it would be it would make people feel more comfortable if yeah the finance committee said right you concurred with people who might have a personal might have a professional interest right yeah so just on an's point impacts on water sewer police fire DPW and schol those seem to be the those seem to be the columns can any think as as have been mentioned um just say something about traffic additional traffic [Music] control not sure there would be a DPW impact but uh possibly depending on where the development is if they need some sort of uh you know sewage ejector kind of you know lift station to tie into the town system which presumably would be installed by the developer but would then become a DPW um maintenance item yeah I mean Andy to that I think you got to have some kind of assume it's a very high level back of the envelope but right you gotta you gotta Factor something in there right because yeah as I recall on the SLV and I can double back around as I recall on the SLV they were responsible for that and they were responsible for the maintenance that the town was own on the pumper thing whatever it was um the town was only responsible for the pipes in the street yeah that was that was a uh a waste treatment uh facility of some kind that I think they they owned as part of their design but I you're talking about it something different it's something different it's you know it's like over on uh you know Pine Street near uh what is it rock ledge or something like that there's I think there was a project recently with that uh added a generator out there you know to support the uh the lift station that's there oh Rockwood Heights okay yeah Rockwood heights yeah okay so that that's the kind of thing that I'm thinking about okay they were sure they were well at one point but CST definitely is that's not residential so but we can I can ask chop yeah do you need another one of those things you got over at Rockwood Huns a lift station at least it sounds I know like I know I'm talking about you nailed it it's good thanks Andy well as in aside one thought I had on the sewer situation because I don't think we bid the sewer um reconstruct now you know the repairs that we were planed to do this year I didn't see anything bid but and they were talking about again relocating it with some injector system this is something that Greg said in the cricket the other day oh that's years and years down the road but well one of the thoughts I had is it might be prudent to do that with the CST to keep the capacity this for the rest of the town you know and just to keep but it was that's a different that's that's different um it was a thought the report that was done and I will rify it with Chuck said that there was sufficient capacity in our existing system but they were also looking to relocate the whole system no yeah but that's a whole different that that's a flooding problem puming problem yeah yeah and that has nothing to do with this the zoning that's a completely separate yes I did issue that impacts the town any other thoughts on this okay we'll have to meet more get on this hasn't been online high speed Lear okay next was to discuss the liazon role and if there's any updates thank you very much this is thanks Ann for coming thank you we appreciate your input that's so so um Peter and I had set a date to meet with um Chuck I think it was is it the 25th n o'clock 25th here it's an update yeah and I just I wanted yeah I'd like to discuss your conary notes here yes I I think that Greg is working on a facilities plan at our next meeting on October 2nd he's presenting his long-term capital plan to us with respect to facilities facilities and everything else oh everything else right long-term capital plan this is the bigger projects this isn't the routine stuff this isn't pipes this is this is right no there should be the facilities the climate resilience stuff um what other categ October 2 yeah that's when we're going to start that discussion somehow I missed that particular you know that upcoming event okay y well I I'll formally announc to be honest um Greg and I had a conversation on the side and he said he couldn't make this meeting so I said well we'll do this other thing and then he said well I'll be ready to give you the capital on the meeting on the second I gather from your comments that you really focusing us towards at least at this early stage towards the process it was more of a process question of how cost numbers are developed for projects am I missing your in the capital budget because I I I think the thing that surprised me in La when we were doing last year's budget is we came up with this conversation of do we hire a person be Clerk of the works and when we did that they removed $400,000 from the capital projects budget to hire outside conduct Consultants to do the projects and that seemed like a very large number to me and made me wonder what's the methodology actually calculating what we're carrying in the capital budget for projects is it a real is it a developed number or is it just a stab is this of this is what we think we can full examples of that over and above example you just provided which is the supervisory element would be what elements would you expect to be within that guesstimate range the water the water and sewer updates um just simply in general yeah it just seems to me like there's numbers being carried for pipes and I don't know how those numbers are being generated um probably as a guess you have initial engineering and Andy can probably talk this but you have the initial engineering you have permitting then you have construction typically you have a 30% contingency in your construction which is how people bid this there's also a municipal overlay you prevailing wage and then you probably have like documentation and wrap up at the end so when you add all that stuff together 50% you you start high you um and then you Whittle away as you get more I'm not even sure when they're coming up with budget numbers where they they're looking at specific projects yeah oh well I mean so for instance they had 1.8 million for Pleasant Street and right they didn't do it well no the bids are they it was came back at 3.1 million because not only are they lining Pleasant Street they're looking at Blue Lane and and there's two years no the 1.8 was in the year before funding that wasn't used okay and they did walk a road right with a portion of that and I don't know what portion and then there was much more in lot of there's much more in the fiscal year 25 budget I can't remember what we had for water pipes but it was much higher than the 1.8 though well you know Chuck seems very motivated and we're giving them a Long Leash to get going but want to keep them in the right direction yeah better understanding what you're now talking about yeah I just think we need to understand how the capital budget are how they're developed yeah and then I think along the way there's Discovery you may have remember a Walker Road there was a pipe that ran diagonally under like three private properties and they said okay we're going to discontinue this and we're going to Route it to the corner and around yeah but that doesn't have anything to do with coming up with the budget the money the number in the capital budget right okay that's an unforeseen event which is fine I get that I'm just asking about how the numbers are developed for the capital budget like we could suggest like looking at um what the cost was for last year's water main work and how many linear feed did they put in and they may doing a linear feet calculation I don't know right so it's a cost per linear foot type but there seems to me in DPW there's a lot of money there there's a a a pole for storm damage repair that just for years we were just adding to that and there's other things in that budget I can't remember what else the cringer I want to ask about is what happened to School Street why we have to pave that I that's what we're like trying to avoid I don't get what they're doing why they closed one side of school Street I don't didn't quite understand that so that's specific to DPW what about the other departments is there some kind of standardized sort of process that's what I'm driving towards here exactly yeah I think for all the apparatus we want to get the longterm plan what their replacement is I think a big other big component of Staffing um what's the Staffing plan why is it if they need additional Staffing what time period why see as I'm sitting here though for the at least selfishly for the fire depart Chief seems like he's got that figure he's put some thought in I know there's some things that are coming around the bend like OSU Appliance and and what's he planning for that I mean I think the hope is that people will have the liazon will have discussions with these departments and then come back to the finance committee before we're in the nitty-gritty of the and say okay these are potential things that need to be taken into consideration um so a big one with the fire I'm thinking is what's the difference going to be when we get our second ambulance online is they going to be you anticipate more out of town calls or more C and stff we already have well the thing that surprised me is when I read in the paper and says we now have three equipment three pieces of equipment that can do ALS right where did the money come from to equip them for ALS so it's ambulance one ambulance two then right the third was supposed to be no not ambulance 2 it's ambulance one and it's that SUV SUV was the and now the latter truck I read was equipped for ALS I think I saw something on social media that when the latter one came in it's equi for ALS I don't know just might be the Modern Way think of doing but now we have three right I do think on the one of the questions for the liaison who were dealing with fire is the oia stuff and a lot of the fire safety are recommendations not laws and um when you talk with people in other towns who deal with fire departments they always remind you those are guidelines I mean I was sitting with a guy in Montana who's a fire chief out there and he goes yeah these are guidelines or ideals to thrive for yeah as opposed to like a big Metropolitan Boston area I think the other question is on regionalization I think certainly with police and I can't remember who's doing police Mike and I okay we need to connect mike6 police chief is retiring right um and my understanding is there may have been some discussions but there may have been reasons why Essex may not want to do it um but I think we need to understand that as to what so is are you expecting like a written report a verbal report oh no no just verbal just yeah just to discuss it a Mee Andy you and I should get together and brainster yep that's fine Mike you and I should have a conversation about police and coordinate on that yeah y let me know yep I'll I'll reach out to you in the next day or so on there okay yeah just so that we were're not at the point where the I think the thing that happened this past year is the entire budget was put together and then there were all these things that came up that significantly impacted the budget it would be nice to have the discussions in advance of the budget being tied in a package in December to give some input this is separate and above from what the chief may do with greig because I think he sits down thank you for saying that yes exactly yeah yeah yeah hey Sarah yeah sorry H do you do you have um do you end up do you end up getting any notes from um the select board on you know like direction that they've given to DT DPW regarding a new facility or you know anything like that no no um I don't get anything from the select board but we're having a joint meeting on October 7th that's right okay to discuss their fiscal year 26 priorities okay because you know I I say that because sometimes these um you know like the new uh Public Works facility um stuff like that sort of material materializes because it just appears on a page somewhere and you know it's hard to know you know like what's the what's the intention behind it you know is it uh is is it just springing from you know just from DPW or is it coming from Greg is it got the support of the select board so it'll be good to have that kind of discussion right and I think that one of the things with DPW is I don't know what the timeline is for the um boring at the old compost site test for yeah for for Geotech you mean yeah thank you geot um yeah I don't know if that's been that the liazon can ask about as to what the timeline is for the where Harbor sit in all these various inquiries in terms of DBW please we said Harbor would be with police yeah because the staff is kind of intertwined about the staff I was thinking about the other elements of har terms of all that I didn't know where that lay Staffing here Among Us who should be asking those questions well I think the sustainability should be in Greg's long-term capital plan and I think that if we're we're not seeing stuff there then we should be asking what the plan of him because DPW isn't really sustainability and harbor is not really sustainability I mean it's it's an overriding Town effort well that's what yeah so I was trying to think where it LO in Greg's review that's what you're yeah I think so but your point a bunch of that is capital so for example you have the Rotunda right you have Dred you have Central Street Dam right and then we have um docks and floats and Capital Equipment which is you know the retiring Harbor Master the next one may not be wor so handy so these are all the capital things and then then you got the operational things which is at a bump this year with the launch which you're familiar with and I think we want to recap of what happen that so that's kind of the operation sign understanding he's going to Police Academy is that prepared for the fact that haror Masters are going to have to be trained fully trained officers is that they don't have to be I know but is that a projection into the future that's what you're saying yeah I think there's an assumption that that's going to happen and it's these type of decisions that have significant financial impacts and we're not really always glued in on should we look at like the cost of doing the routine patrols versus a cost of maybe just being able to handle a complaint there you know like what is the benefit we're getting from these all all the cost of having two people out patrolling every weekend for you know 16 hours is it is it being worthwhile is it a useful expenditure versus if we just don't expend that money and handle it when someone calls that there's too many people in the code something you know I I think that would be too radical a change to look at yeah whether whether we do that yeah I mean you need a police you need a presence on the streets in the harbor but on the Harbor yes what you need it in the harbor but do you need it on the whole Coastline well this is about the whole Coast well I mean maybe to your point about the harbor you know if we have two boats with one person in each or two Vats with one and two people that's three people and then you got somebody on the waterfront was talking about the street just talk about the water I mean you know on a given weekend we might have five people or more coming in going and you know a lot of these are younger people with Vacations or whatever so you now you have a a back log or a stable of another three or four that can fill in you know by the time you get to it the harbor is probably got 10 people on the payroll in some capacity here or there or more so I think I think to the point we need to be conscious about how we're getting to these places you know it's like the grant thing oh I've got a grant slowly paid for well then suddenly we're like well okay how much Town labor is used to execute this Grant and by the way the Grant's gone away now are we doing for maintenance and kind of get into these things sometimes accidentally yeah so that would be another thing that liazon can ask about his grants yeah um because I think that there's a lot of grants that the Departments rely on oh r on okay yeah not those necessarily the pipeline but those that they're assuming into their into their plans is that or that they're scheduling capital projects because they assume they're going to get a grant and it won't impact the town budget because to what effect are grants gateways to more spending right way to think of it that's that's Mor just hit the nail on the head that's that's how that's how to quantif yeah exactly anything else people feel comfortable as to what you have a better sense from this conversation the good thing is we're starting early know this is September so you know the budget gets put together and we'll see it sort of in December but we're we're on it this is good right so later what is this would be slightly different question what's needed for the November town meeting what what are I don't I don't know what's going to be on it I have no clue well I do have a clue well we we know it's for the MBTA zoning right we do know that yes what else are they going to throw in that's exactly well there are a couple of bills that weren't paid which will be on well that's there was I was looking for some big you know I haven't heard I thought that Greg's goal was to do not have much on the warrant because he they felt that the MBTA zoning was going to take so much time and so their goal was to not have a lot of things but I haven't heard so if we work back from that they need to file a warrants and all that for that probably around mid October which means that it comes up for discussions things if it has Financial impact come up with us early in October oober and the select early in October so we ought to be asking greay what's what's on the board for this so I'll put it on the so on the on the October 2 probably second I would be asking anticipate coming we got longterm capital and we've got um potential warrant articles okay anything else you guys want on this meeting that meeting okay and then we have the joint meeting with select board on the 7th and then we have another meeting on the 16th which you might Circle back around based on the meeting okay um so we're done with that not done it'll be around for this meeting well I think any any additional information we can solicit the better off we are see again on the S I just noticed the word done October 7th yeah we'll meet with them I think it's a Monday it is not able to that's right yeah it's a normal meeting and so I suggest that we would be on at seven that's our normal time you never they start meeting at 6 they start their meeting at 6:30 and it has been added to the agenda because she wanted to do it next week Tuesday do that okay minutes read yeah did you have any changes Dean you had some changes just the one right that that thing about um haror master and water rates was it the July meeting okay wasn't or the next one okay I don't recall the discussion about Greg them considering Greg being time thought know was in there so I don't know how it got added but it's in there I do not remember that it's the updated statement on governance the governance was was discussed and then that's the updated statement on what's going on with discuss that in our meeting then I'll take it out yeah we didn't discuss that brought it up it was position might be changed to town manager no you didn't discuss it no please take that out and we've had no nobody's contacted us regarding a selection meeting committee so I don't know what's happening there okay so I Make a Move Motion to approve the September 4th meeting with those changes do I have a second yes yes Peter seconds take a vote Peter yes Dan Tom can't believe I did thata again time Mory yes Dean um Mike I'll abstain Andy yes okay so we've talked about the October 7th meeting already I guess right so is there anything else we need to discuss we add another month yeah um well it may be some of the I've got a conflict with one of these meetings we've scheduled so it maybe we have to adjust our schedule too you have a sense of when that yes appreciate November 20th that's to be that um conflicts with the zba meeting and would likely it was our only November meeting and I think that we had people oh I had switched yeah and I wasn't astute enough to realize that that was a zba meeting so you're likely to move it to another time another day I mean another day rather back to the 13th is that a problem I'm I I like okay was good actually how about the Tuesday or the Thursday of that week week of the 20th 19th or 21st 21st I can't do the 19 okay or you can have the meeting without oh my God sah oh my God subject 19th um they can't do it November 21st either one's good Andy can you do November 21st instead of November 20th it's a Thursday yes a Mike uh I think so yeah okay so Gail will change the November 20th meeting to November 21st okay she's gone she vanished um if there's nothing else I'll take a motion to adjourn Peter moves more seconds all in favor great thank you all thanks good night thank you night night good night okay with respect to the budget in the coming years you heard of any staffing changes that are likely um the hit the lower right hand no lower right hand corner on the screen screen this no up above that whoops go back just hit the screen yeah and meeting for all right