like to welcome you all to the Joint hybrid planning board meeting of March 25th all to order miss prayon here here did you say that I think Sarah SP for Miss book here and Miss Tenny here looks like we have a quum tonight I'd like to remind all board members guests uh to be recogniz the to be recognized by the chair if you wish to speak and this meeting is being recorded first item up are acknowledgement of receipt of Correspondence a letter from Miss pbert and something from the town of wenam at this time anybody from the public would like to speak on any item that's not on the agenda with a limited amount of time okay so this meeting was supposed to be a joint meeting between the task force and the planning board I received notice this afternoon KN that for some technical reason there was not enough time to properly post The Joint meeting as a result the full task force cannot engage tonight however Co chair Chris only will present with some of the materials and other members of the task force present and actively participate one members present thatting are and course you can confirm this I have yourself miss fber Mr Smith and Ann Harrison um so I also understand that ourant Emily Andis will be arriving at 7 so um trying to make a good thing out of a bad I'd like to proceed I know the um the task force has been doing a great job multip multiple uh backgrounds meeting almost weekly now coal Lessing coming up with a plan um that was voted on I think two weeks ago and um did a lot of took a lot of work off the planning board shoulders and I think we have a better set up Manchester for it so um with that said I'd like to uh turn it over to Chris if you have some sure how you want to present this going forward uh sure I have a statement to make and then maybe we'll have to pause until Emily gets here I okay we could move things out of order do you want to do that first or you we could um so we have much on the agenda um rules and regulations driveway entrance final application form I think Mark you've taken care of that yeah so what I've done is I I went upstairs and I met with Public Works um about that and then I reviewed our what you were proposing for a form for a special permit application and then I compared that to our current special permit application because the planning board has a special permit application and it's very similar there's a few little things that are different and then there's a bunch of requests for information but that's already in the bylaw so it's kind of redundant to have a bunch of little sentences at the end of the application asking for information that's already in the rules and recs so I think we we ought to and I'll I'll email it around to the planning board is the or you can find it on our web page under the planning board is look at the current application and see if there's anything else you think should be because we really should just have one application for a special permit um like it asked for the districts it ask information on the lot the size and and if it's any in any special zoning District which are all things that are you had on your new application so um planning board should have one special private application so there's anything that you feel really should be in our one application we can add that to that but I didn't see anything that really stood out as is needing whole separate application and create more bureaucracy because what happens when the next special permit you feel that something else and town meeting approves it we're going to create a third application and then a fourth application so do the same fees apply whether it's a special permit or a curb opening um I'll check double check that but there on our current application it says fee applied in other words so we may have other fees under other bylaws that have filed those special permits that may be different so you would kill okay comments from the board I just one question we have that picture although it's not a great picture of the curb Cuts with the apron and the radius and all that where would that go or you saying to scrap that yeah well wouldn't be on the it's in your regulation so you have a bylaw that sets out certain parameters and then the bylaw allows you to adopt additional regulations so you adopted those three or four page additional regulations so those now apply to anybody um apply you know requesting a curb cut um so the first step is it goes to public works to see if it complies and if it complies with everything they can issue the permit and as per the bylaw says if it doesn't comply so for example if they want two entrances or they have a large lot they want a double wide driveway um then that would be um submitted to the planning board as a special perm good got you anything else okay thanks Mark you'll send that to us for um so um as a placeholder I put annual town meeting on the agenda but after my research with Mark uh we have nothing on annual town meeting correct not at this time to be safe yeah as as public hearing as I'm here and we work through other applications will I identifi things things that should be over from added cleaned up things from the recodification that got missed um and so that future temp will have additional item okay so just from the paper not that I've been privy or the planning board has been privy but do we need to chime in on the senior center I don't think we've been asked to unless the board has a special reason it's a transfer of property we usually have to write a report and weigh in about real estate I'm not aware of what's going on but if you want to Enlighten us and uh just with the paper says that they're going to bring it to town meeting and we're going to vote on whether we should accept you know a portion of the Mas call as a senior center we haven't received any request from either Greg's office or the select board at this point but um asked for our bylaw state that the plany board should go fine before any transaction so okay so oh it usually happens at the last minute because we don't plan but would be nice if we actually had information ahead of time to look at I'll check that and then we can add it to the subsequent planning board thank you [Music] um the ason um committee's task force um Sarah anything on Harbor management plan um yes can you hear me yes great um yeah last Tuesday we had about uh 30 or 40 people at the high school um and uh we divided up into four stations um see if I can remember one on voting and safe voting um one on public access one on environmental considerations and climate change and one on fisheries and so we got a lot of really good input from people about what they're concerned about or what their idea ideas are and um there'll be more uh public input uh requests to come but um I think we got a good start and um I think the Consultants got some good things that they should look at that they might not have thought about so um was very successful and appreciate everybody who came and the um hard work of Bay on hikee and um and the urban Harbor Institute folks who really did the line share the work okay thank you um I have nothing on the CPC um any other liaison meeting with any reports we know what the difference is between the version that we were just given versus the version that thought I knew there was a typo but it wasn't corrected so I don't know do you know Mark no SP um can we go back to uh Christina's comment just to give Mark a head start what is the bylaw that you were referring to I don't have it off the top of my head many Board needs to find a report about real estate transactions just it might since Mark is fairly I think Mark find it in the to have a site though Greg has his hand Ron Greg has his hand up Greg go ahead I can just comment that um so yes so it is appropriate and necessary for the planning board to um give an opinion about different real estate transactions and so we I'll be preparing for the planning board a summary of The Proposal um for your next meeting and that would be in time for the um April 24th annual town meeting thanks um we've got two meaning minutes to approve February 12th and February 26 any comments from the board on either motion motion to approve or a second motion's been made is there a second second any discussion all those in favor raise hands oppose none and that's for both thank you okay we think go this quickly is there is there um any reason why you we can't start and Emily can kind of pick up Y where um so yeah if you want to start with your statement and then we can uh we'll go from there okay so the task force has come a very long way since last June we've learned about the NBTA communities law and its requirements we've learned that there already are pockets of dense multif family housing in the town that mostly go unnoticed and serve their residents very well we've learned about elements of the town that people want to preserve we've learned about the computerized compliance model and how it works and we've learned that many Town residents are willing and anxious to engage with us want to understand our zoning regulations the members of the task force have been working very hard on this project we've been working on three different aspects simultaneously the first is the location of new overlay districts for the town the second is the creation of design guidelines for new development and the third is in engaging with the public to explain the law receive comments and answer questions and they all deserve our thanks for the work that they've been doing it's not a job that we want to do but we would prefer to offer possible solutions rather than face some potential consequences if we fail to comply with the NBTA communities law we don't always agree on some of the assumptions or predicted results but we do agree on a basic framework of how we can comply and that's pretty remarkable given our different backgrounds and interests I will note that one member will not support any solution which is of course their right in selecting potential districts we've relied on a set of guiding principles most basic of these is our commitment to minimizing potential changes to the town that might result from these new zoning requirements we want to make sure that existing buildings and especially those with historic significance but not threatened with demolition we want to preserve our businesses and restaurants and not have them replaced with high price condos the importance of small scale and a variety of architectural style is the key to preserving Town character a major goal is to minimize the number of new incremental residential units that could be allowed we can do this by limiting new zoning districts to areas of that are already densely settled with residential units and to areas that have small Lots which can support only a small number of units in a new development we can't make everybody happy and we have to make tradeoffs to get to a reasonable plan and I also want to clear up a couple of misunderstandings and some misinformation that's been circulating the first is we're proposing a number number of zoning overlay districts these overlay districts do not change the underlying zoning which remains in effect the new overlay districts allow the development of multif family housing but only if certain specific requirements are met height lot coverage and density limits along with off street parking requirements are critical to our current zoning and they will remain the second big misunderstanding these new zoning District districts do not override Wetland protection laws or any other environmental rules the Conservation Commission will continue to oversee any development that might be allowed by this zoning and third there is no proposal to allow the development of the 140 Acres that is owned by Gordon College there's been a lot of discussion about the possibility of developing a small part of the land about six to seven acres in exchange for a permanent conservation eement to protect the remainder of all this land and the Watershed however this proposal is not part of the plan we're presenting this evening the task force has considered the LCD as a possible Zone because every acre that can be rezoned out in the LCD is one less acre that has to be rezoned as an overlay District in or near the de downtown so here's where we are the task force is proposing the creation of four overlay districts with some um subdistricts which would comply with the law the rules setting the unit capacity of each district need to be fine-tuned and these adjustments may result in changes to the boundaries of these districts or even to changes in the districts themselves but this is a are one of the districts uh the downtown uh the Pine Street moris Court Elm Street powderhouse lean area is pretty well set in our minds as as a reasonable place to start because it meets a number of the criteria for the for the district right away but again this could be fine tuned as we go along there'll be subd districts we could allow more density in parts of this area and less s see and other parts when Emily gets here she can explain all about U the um find how the law Works how the model works and how we came up with the with the data to support these proposed districts uh so I should I guess mention the the members of the task force that are actually here this evening uh again because our meeting wasn't posted properly we are not in session here but uh there are unfortunately there are five of us but carar you got to keep your mouth closed and just pretend you're on Zoom so uh Su Phil brick and I are on the task force of course Richard Smith who's on the historic commission gar moris is in the downtown Improvement program commission and an Harrison representing the select board and she has her hand raised I checked with Greg this afternoon and it is his belief that as long as this was posted as a joint meeting by the planning board um with the task force then there's been proper notice that the task force is here that's good to know okay great so everyone can speak um I if we're in a properly um noticed meeting we should probably call ourselves to order well all right well then I guess I'll call I'll take this opportunity let me just hear from Greg what I got a little something but go ahead Greg uh thanks Ron so um when I originally talk to Ann I thought that the notice had included both boards at the top of the agenda um and it it does not it only lists the planning board as the um board posting you know meeting um Town Council felt that it was a bit of a toying cost because it is listed later in the agenda that it is a joint meeting um he felt if we wanted to be a little more cautious that that it would not be a full meeting it would be not a a fully recognized meeting of the task force but that members for all members of the task force certainly can listen in and that uh um uh not a majority would be speaking so four out of the nine could participate in the meeting this evening um but he felt um if you wanted to be cautious in terms of um open meeting law then then you would go that route he he he felt that if you know if you really felt strongly about it that you could go forward but again lawyers tend to be cautious so he would recommend a little Caution okay well so we won't call meeting to order but I'd like to move forward you guys have made some decisions on some areas at least that could be translated to us yes get some groundwork going yeah and actually Emily just walked in hi Emily welcome so we should probably in this is Emily inis who is the principal of uh the Consulting team that the town is hired to help us through this process then she has a little presentation to make with some slides okay um you be co-host just loading it up and I will be with you right one moment me I can take some questions if people have any any questions from the audience yes identify yourself yes Isabella Bates to masomo Chris are you referring to Pine Street number two map when you were T us talking yeah thank you and that area is uh about I think it's 18 Acres Al together which is what is required uh by the law that at least half of all of our zoning has to be within half of the things you need one need a contigous one of the districts has to be contiguous has to be half half of the total why we have the one District to uh this to be the one larger District all the other districts that are selected have to be a minimum of foundation would it be appropriate to talk through all the maps um I think that'll be she's gonna do that hi yes thank you Sarah Pierce n friend Street I just had a question on the last last um I guess it's the design guidelines subcommittee there was talk at the end of the meeting about having five story buildings four stories of residential with a parking garage on the first floor uh one where I'm assuming that would be taking place in the LCD if that is an actual consideration and two if it is an actual consideration how does that fall in line with preserving the character of Manchester by the Sea thank you well so the the character of the LCD is open Woodland and some industrial spaces out there at the moment um I don't think anyone thinks of it as representing the character of the town right now the discussion about the five-story buildings and the parking underneath it was a point made by The Architects that uh that would preserve most of the open space the more you can put a building um on a smaller footprint and put parking under it the less disturbance there is to the land around it so that was the subject of the discussion it's not anything that's been put on the table okay so is that for the LCD or is it for the down we' never do that on the downtown five stories now but you would still it would still definitely in my opinion change the character of the town to have a five-story residential building well believe it or not there's a four and a half story building in the downtown right now that no one seems to notice where is that it's located on Union Street 33 Union I believe so that was another question I had about stories is there uh when you're planning these stories for each building is there an actual height maximum that you're or minimum that you're using for each story or is that something I know you can't say specifically now but some stories are 12 feet some are 14 so I'm just and and we had discussed earlier on about I think the height of buildings is really important in preserving Manchester by the Sea because we we have one building maybe that's I don't know a full four stories I I have I don't know which one you're referring to but typically most buildings and homes are two stories in Manchester by the Sea so that's just my comment question actually that's not true most buildings in this town are two and a half stories or two stories with a with a pitched roof on top okay but they're two they're not four or five well that's just my comment all right thank you can I just it's 40% within the half mile I'm sorry I'm sorry about the contiguous one district has to be contiguous that is half of the whole area yeah can share with okay Emily uh you have the control great thank you very much for having me here um just again to the record my name is Emily Enis I'm president of inis Associates we've been assisting the um NBTA uh task force and therefore the town with modeling and will be assisting with the draft zoning not here with me tonight but also part of the team is rcg associates they will be doing an um economic feasibility analysis model for the affordable housing so with that I'm just going to talk through a little bit about what we've been doing so far starting off with just a very brief NBTA Community back 101 uh talk a little bit about the requirements for Manchester uh the current model that we're using where we are now and the implications of that and a little bit about the allowable review process so with that just as a reminder uh because not everybody in the room has been as in depth um uh as the task force or or uh myself um the MBTA communities Act is a law it was um uh established a requirement for 177 uh communities that are designated under the law as NBTA communities to develop a zoning district for um multif family housing being submitted at upright and we'll go through each of these storms um that multif family housing cannot have age restrictions and it must um be suitable for families with children you must have a minimum gross density of 15 dwelling units per acre and part of the district in those um communities that have a transit station um a part of the district must be located within a half mile of a commuter rail or Subway um it also has fer bus but primarily commun rail or Subway um the purpose was we running out of housing in Massachusetts we um don't have enough we don't have enough that is Affordable to all people in the community and we um are at a disadvantage uh in competing with other states um uh for talent for businesses for jobs so uh that is the the purpose that was AB using the new law was done but there's a lot of misinformation out there about the NTA can disas act so I was kicked off out by saying what the ACT is not and it is not a mandate to build housing this is a zoning District it allows the option for property owners to develop as they choose or not under the district but it's not a mandate for the town itself to build housing there's no housing production Target that says if the town doesn't build x amount of housing by a y number of years that something bad will happen no target like that you're just given a um uh what we'll talk about is a unit capacity for the zoning to have it's also not restricted just to affordable housing this has been a common misperception that it is all about affordable housing it's not a community can choose to add affordable housing to the requirements in the zoning some communities already have something called in inclusionary zoning law but there's no requirements that that be in there and it's not a one foit Sol tool for communities some communities have a wide range of housing needs based on income um age type of housing this isn't going to help with all of those it however can be an important part of a community's housing strategy and it's not viewed as optional and we've seen recent news um with communities that are either not in compliance or thinking about not being in compliance the state has been very clear that they don't view this as optional so just a couple of definitions and these are taken from What's called the compliance guidelines which is a document that eoh hlc the executive office and housing and Lille communities created to help communities comply with the law and understand what the requirements are for compliant so as of right is development that can proceed under a zoning ordinance or by law without the need for uh another level of approval so special permit variance zoning Amendment waiver or other discretionary zoning approval in other words once the zoning is enacted once adopted by the community then um somebody can actually uh make an application under that zoning to build something now you are allowed to have site plan review and design review and I'll talk about that later on but you can't have the special permit process multif family housing itself is defined as a building with three or more residential dwelling units or and this does get confusing or two or more buildings on the same lot with more than one residential dwelling unit in each building what that translates to is a minimum of two duplexes on one lot so your absolute minimum is a three family or two duplexes on one lot and then obviously you can go up to um whatever the CH the community chooses to zone for a multi family zoning District can be either a base District or an overlay district and for those who may be listening who are Property Owners everybody who's a property owner has a base zoning District your property is zoned to do something with it might be what you have now it might not be you might have something that redated that zoning and so now you're non-conforming but you are zoned an overlay District which is also an option sits on top of that base zoning so if you are the property owner you have the option of either doing something under the base owning or doing something on top of under the overlay B however you can't pick and choose so you can't say oh you know what I really like these setbacks in the base zoning and I like the height in the overlay so I'm going to put them together you can't do that you have to choose one or the other and once you've made that choice you're bound by the by the um the rules of the zoning District that you took so the zoning District can be either base or overlay um the multi family has to be allowed at the right the district has to be a fixed location locations in other words you can't just say somewhere in town we're allowing a multif family like any other zoning District that you have it has to be a specific area and it has to be on a map that's part of the ordinance or by law I talked about an overlay District already and it's the same thing it's the same overlay uh um the the um definition Got U messed up here it's got the previous one but it's what I talked about that sits on top of the base couple more terms so I mentioned unit capacity ear ear and unit capacity is the number of dwelling units for which you need to Zone and this is where some of that misinformation came in um there is a calculation in the compliance guidelines I've got it in the small text below um it's based on the type of community you are of course a commuter rail community and the number of housing units in the 2020 census um and the minimum land area so um your uh original uh calculation was based on your 2,433 housing units which were the 2020 census but in fact you're also capped to 1.5% of developable land so I think an earlier document went out where you had 39 Acres was your required minimum it's actually 37 because of that 1.5% cap um and I confirmed that with El hlc this morning um the compliance model I mentioned earlier it is how you a bohc asks you to determine compliance with the size density and location requirements um and I'm going to talk a little bit more about that compliance model as we go through um it's an Excel spreadsheet that requires um a couple of different inputs so the model itself is this Excel spreadsheet for those of you who uh do excel a lot it has a number of different tabs in each tab you add specific information the first thing you need to pull is is what's called GIS or geographic information systems um that is your parcel data it's where what the address is it's the legal identification of the parcel it's the number of acres in the parcel whether it has excluded land and if so what type and whether it has sensitive land all of that is pulled from layers that the state created to be used in the model um you're zoning the next piece so once those are in those are model itself the next piece is the zoning and that comes from two possible places one is your existing zoning so if you're saying oh I would like this to look like what happens if I model the General District what does that look like when you would take the zoning General District and input it or you can say we'd like to try something else uh we would like to Zone a parcel in the LCD uh but we want to vary what's currently allowed in the LCD you can also put that into the model itself and what happens is the zoning is applied to the land area and it creates an output that is the unit capacity parcel by parcel within the district the density parcel by parcel within the district and also the total number of unit capacity the total density for each of the districts and that's what uh the task force has been working on since last summer and then as I came in we continue to refine that and look at those so when we think about zoning parameters there's some key parameters that the model uses but there are also some zoning parameters that you would find in your zoning that aren't in the model so when we start to think about zoning we want to think about how those interrelate for the compliance model we're looking at things like minimum lot size lot area per dwelling unit and not every Community uses every sing single one of these Building height building coverage floor area ratio open space parking dwelling units per lot and dwelling units per acre the model takes all of those and applies that to the gis depending on what the community's input set facts step backs um setbacks are the distance of the building from the property line starting at the the base of the the lowest story of the building step backs uh some communities uh generally at much higher Heights than you're looking at but some communities will allow a building to go up three maybe four stories and then require the the higher stories to be stepped back from that front facade and that's to allow um uh a more sort of a nicer experience at the street level uh if they have narrower his streets for example as I said you're not really looking at the heights where you would do step backs at the moment and then lot coverage which is building and parking so those are a couple of parameters there's a few more but those are a couple of them that aren't part of this so for Manchester uh your minimum land area is 37 Acres you need to have 40% of your Acres within the station area so within that half mile radius uh your minimum unit capacity is 559 units same thing 40% of the units have to be in the station area as with everybody else you have to have 15 dwelling units per acre and then there's something called the minimum contiguous District size and if you remember um they talked about a neighborhood of reasonable size in the um in the law that minimum contiguous District size is to to keep that idea of there being at least one real neighborhood in um in the district you can have as many districts as you want um but they can't you can't have any that are less than five acres so that's been something that we've been testing a lot to see what that works and you must have that one that's 50% of the total District size um that 25 acres was from an earlier calculation so ignore that it's actually 18.5 acres for you all um so the current model so we have uh with the task force as I said been working through a number of different iterations and it's important to understand when you start balancing multiple districts um with each other um that 15 dwelling per acre is an average of all of the districts and allows you to increase the density in some areas and decrease it in others so that you get that overall 15 um units per acre so as we collectively looked at the districts it became how much above that minimum 40% did uh does the town want in the station area um what are the implications for land outside the station area where do you want to put the density and is it higher in some places and lower than the others um we had a couple of combinations that didn't work because they were fine for number of acres and fine for unit capacity but they were too low in density we also had a few that were too high and so we wanted to bring them down to try and come to what looks like a minimum scenario so these are the models that we used um uh the sorry the the zoning parameters that we use so you see the Pine Street sub districts uh Newport Park Hind Street Mor Sawmill powderhouse Elm Street I'll show you maps in a in a minute and Valentine to summer we use the minimum lot size of 6,000 square fet 2.5 stories 40% lot coverage that structures a parking requirement of 1.5 spaces per unit that's pretty close to what you have now you do have I mean there's obviously uh setbacks in the existing zoning you also have a restriction of four dwelling units for a um which we took out and I should say that Newport Park and Pine Street um are actually not the G District the I see yeah those two are not the G District but we modeled them all according to this having said that as we continue talking about these we haven't done a lot of refining of the dimensional standards so as we look at this today note note that we've been focused on the geography and getting the geography balance right there's Absolut within this process still time to talk about whether or not these dimensional standards are the right ones and if they're not what they should be but I called them out because you need to know what we started with as our base for the Calin property which is the property that's outside that half mile radius that 5 acre minimum requirement is the frge for the LCD District um the rest we kept at the same um dimensional standards as the others just to see what would happen and again plenty of time to change that and in fact I I did make a change and I'll talk about it in a minute so this current scenario is compliant it has 37 Acres 559 units you see all of the districts to the left uh those are the station area districts um and you can see what each district comes up to uh so we've got the district Acres those acres are from the um layer that the uh State gave us to use um just for a note for anybody who goes at home to look up those Acres that doesn't always match up to the assessor data uh because when they created those um layers they went and measured each of the parcels with GIS data um Assessor's data might be relying on earlier Deeds I know for a fact that in some communities those deeds can be inaccurate because I've run into it before um so these are from the states uh um layers for the Acres uh we put the number of units Allowed by right under the proposed NTA zoning and what we mean by that is what I showed you on the previous page so those are the current dimensional standards and so that gives us the calculated density or dwelling units per acre we also use there's a Mass Housing um partnership uses a has a a website called resid dencity that shows you what the current number of units and the current density is on every parcel in Massachusetts actually it's very useful so we pulled the number of the existing units according to residency and again there might be a slight difference between the assessors but we just wanted to make sure we had a consistent set of data so we're showing here the number of existing units according to residenc City then we're subtracting that from the calculated density showing you how many more additional units there could be under the zoning um you know in the unit capacity of the zoning and we also counted up the number of parcels that could support additional units and what that means is any parcel that has uh fewer than uh fewer existing units than the calculated units so for example if we calculated that a parcel could have five units and it currently has three it's counted in this if we calculated that it had three units and it currently has three units it's not within this number and you can see the total number of Acres the total of unit capacity and the total density is um uh is all compliant now the next slide I'm going to show you is actually a non-compliant district what I did was I put an additional restriction on the Calin property you can see right now it's got a um potential units allowed based on the parameters I showed you 199 I said what happens if I put an artificial limit on that or a restriction on that that gets it down to 100 units and what happens and it's a good reminder that these things all work together is that with just 100 units it meets the um you know it's fine it's 7.68 but when it averages in with the rest with only a 14.4 density it brings the total density down and so now you uh have not enough units and not enough density so as we look at all of these districts and say what are the appropriate dimensional standards for these districts will want to again double check them not just individually but also with each other and that's because the Calin property and some of these other properties have what's called excluded land on and excluded land is defined in the compliance guidelines as land that cannot be modeled for capacity it includes surface water it includes Wetlands it includes public land publicly own land um and some other categories there's also something called sensitive land which could be modeled for unit capacity but they call it out because it's land that a community might be concerned with for example flood planes you can model that but maybe the community a particular Community doesn't want to build there or doesn't want to allow a lot of density there so the presence of excluded land means you can't just do a straight mathematical calculation on the number of Acres so I'm just going to show each of these districts to you that's is the overall map so you can see the um districts within the half mile radius and then the celvin property up here and because that is a little bit too difficult to read on a um uh a PowerPoint presentation I've just zoomed in for each one the information here is the same as the information in the tables that we showed you but we can just go through piece by piece so Newport Park is this um orange piece here I've centered each and these slides I believe should be available after this meeting on the website um there's a a quick question about the data I'm sorry to interrupt but the for Newport park because it was the prior slide and then this slide so on our GIS system it says Newport Park is three acres not four acres that's and the number of existing units are 32 not 42 so the 42 is pulled from residen City and as I said there may be some um uh errors there and we can double we can go through and double check if uh you're spotting anything uh that's different it's supposed to be pulled from Assessor's data um so they should be the same but in a case where the Assessor's data has been updated that's also for the whole district and the district is actually three Parcels so um this Newport Park uh district has three Parcels on it so the district acres is all three Parcels together the number of units is all three Parcels together yeah I mean so I'm just going off the gis and the housing production plan and then the hous Authority site so I'm just wondering which data trumps which data right like right so for the three Parcels here for the compliance model we have to use the um database that the state gave us so um those three Parcels add up to four acres according to the state database for The Residency that's just helpful information to show you so if it's wrong we can go back and double check it and we can work off your assessor data if that's more up to date so but for any of the district Acres that's going to be the state stat L and how do we have access to the state data uh it's on the website so eohc um has a website for the NBTA communities act everything I've talked about to date is on there so there is um uh you can look up every single Community uh there's also the compliance model the methodology for the compliance model which includes how to download the state uh data layer years into GIS it has uh the compliance guidelines that I mentioned um it actually it hasn't been updated since I think mid-February but it's got a list of the status of each um community and what they put in I think the last time I saw it was February 15th it has a sample actually planning board members uh you may be interested in this it has the sample zoning um that eoh hlc uh developed to help communities at least start from a base of there's a good set um actually I shouldn't say that because I help develop it I think it's a good set of appendices in there it was designed for non-planners to read um and that's why I say it's a good set with a little bit less jargon but um all of those resources are there and that's where you can pull it from right thank you so I don't I I want to to show you the um districts up close so I'll I'll sort of hover over each of these slides but really this is so we can go back and look at it if we have questions for any of these and then I see you also have the maps that marked in which are much more detailed uh than this um I was afraid that they wouldn't look um uh as good on the slides so I suggested that print them but I think these should all be available after the meeting so um just finishing up and then this is the Calin property the Calin property um this was a slightly different por to the map so it's these are all at the same scale um but Calin properties that a slightly different scales so it is also smaller than the others just to let you know I should have put it on this is not to scale so with that just a couple of other things the task force has been working on a criteria a list of criteria about how it thinks about the different districts for compliance um uh so this can be a useful exercise for communities um you know why would you because one just split over the other there is of course what's happening on the ground and that's also been a subject of uh discussion for the task force what is in each of these districts now what do what what do we think U might be different and then I just want to cover the allowable review processes so I mentioned that you can do site plan review this uh information is from the sample zoning and uh which also F from the compliance guidelines so a site plan review you can regulate the use unlike a special permit where you can deny the use you canot deny the use in a special site plan review uh but you can regulate it you can have development standards um you can have a site plan review process uh where U the apposite comes in front of the planning board some communities do zoning board of appeals and you can impose those reasonable terms and conditions that sample zoning that I mentioned has both commentary and an appendix on site plan review the mass um Municipal lawyers I want to say Association or legal Association mmla currently has on their website all of the three communities that have been approved they have their approval letters they also have the pre-application review for I think the communities through about mid February so if you're interested in the details some of them do discuss site review that would be worth looking at um and so site plan review you can't prohibit the use you can also have development standards which I mentioned earlier and Design guidelines development standards um are those criteria that are measurable they're quantifiable um typically when you think of site plan review you're thinking about circulation access how the building set sits on the lot you can discuss the appearance of the building and that may be one of the design guidelines come in um so standards May are generally around that access how do building relates to the street and to other buildings on the same lot or next to it um design guidelines uh and again this language comes from the commentary and the sample zoning uh they must be objective they can't be subjetive in other words there can't be discretion around them um Thou shalt have good design or attractive design is a little bit too nebulous for uh design guidelines under this law but if you can talk about the relationship of existing buildings to um the development context uh that you can work you can definitely work with that there's a couple of other things so unfortunately um they eohc has not yet approved any districts that have um design guidelines uh so uh we're kind of working to figure out what would and and Manchester is not the only Community that's considering design guidelines that I'm working with so we're trying to figure out how best to express it in a way that gets the community um you know the comfort of having the design review uh and uh that can be really important especially in a community that has a strong um historical development pattern um but also making sure that the multif family is still allowed as a right so a ridiculous example that I give is um you can't require something of multif family that you're not requiring of other buildings in the same area so what I say is you can't say that multif family has to provide 100% solar but everybody else can just be solar ready so you know it's that difference in in degree so with that um that is all the information I had for you I'm happy to flip back answer any questions um uh go into more detail about the compliance model or the requirements um so we'll turn it back to you are design guidelines enforceable in by right acquisition of happen they can so they can be done in the take a step or two back the development standards if you had a form of administrative review development standards the way I think of them is that they're a checklist right is this person did this did this did this did this they're good to go a community that wanted the administrative review process could do that I think design guidelines are appropriate in an as of right if they are that measurable that easily you've either done it or you haven't um and they're part of the site plan review process there have been there have been a few communities that I've talked to in the past about design guidelines at administrative review but I don't think that they've gone through with that um it was just more of an exercise to discuss but again as long as you've got that measurable quantifiable easily understood non-discretionary um I can remember a planning board I know that spent three or four meetings several hours of a meeting talking about the color of the mortar that is not a position you want to be as of right use so okay um before I get that Gail you've had your hand up a while is there something D okay um questions from the board G sure so I guess I'll go from the back forward um you talked a little bit about what site plan so if there's an overlay district and somebody comes in and says I want to instead of 15 units I you know or whatever random number is in there I want to build 17 so I'm going to go to the DBA for a special permit does that that negate the 15 by right so is it now in a special permit process that is actually wouldn't even be allowed so it's not allowed in the district so you can't go above and beyond what's guess is my question that is an excellent question so let's say that you zoned it for two and a half stories of height and you put um a number of units since you've got a four unit restriction now which just up it for the sake of this um example say you had a restriction of no more than 10 units for for lot right um and somebody hems in and say I don't like that I'd like to do a four-story building and I'd like to have 20 units per lot they can't do that the zoning doesn't allow that okay so it is um and I think that's very important for people to understand um I've had a couple of communities where they were concerned that as of right meant that somebody could do whatever they want I'm glad you asked the question because they still have to obey the the zoning so yeah yeah I mean I understood that as a right part I'm just was questioning because I there's been little blurps here and there that say no but they could go for a variance or they could go for a special permit but it doesn't sound like they could if the zoning doesn't allow for a special permit then they can't go for there's no special permit that would allow them to do that if it's a variance they would have to prove hardship uh to the zba of why they couldn't meet the zoning um that's typically not allowed my understanding is that's typically not allowed for extra density it's usually allowed for things like I can't quite me the setback you know I'm five inches off the setback because my property has a really weird topography compared to the other topographies it's not I don't like your height restriction I want more so so it's fair to say it could be for setbacks trying to think of something else but it wouldn't be for number of units or height or right because they'd be out of compli with the zoning at I had my hand up are machine that has their hand up I do have some questions well you're on I wasn't really I was um so just take for instance the Pine Street number two now so just on the I guess the southwesterly side of Pine Street my understanding that is District a and so these are modeled on 6,000 foot lots for the sake of testing the geography and the um compliance as I said all of those dimensional standards we can continue work with but yes right now it's modeled on a minimum 6,000 foot lot but District a is not 6,000 S I know yes so when we talk about that we're not going to change underlying zoning that that they can't coexist right we can remodel it at the um current density in fact we had that modeled at one point at the current density or the current sorry not the current density the current zoning standards that was an earlier model so the last couple of meetings we've been trying to get to a geography that works knowing that we could come back and retest the dimensional standards just a clarification yeah so the overlay District could say a minimum life size is 6,000 square feet but the underlying District could still say this is Zone a and it's an acre or a half acre whatever absolutely yeah so then people have the choice that they want to use one or the other because uh if you've got the base District when if we're if we're considering an overlay which is what we've been talking about to date the base District just stays what it is the overlay sits on top so the property owner can say oh I can use one or the other um but they don't have to desire they can just stay as they are and not make any change you could choose one thing and your neighbor could choose another thing so you can have a tiny little cottage and now your neighbor could have a three family and that's not in keeping with the neighborhood so then that comes back to if um the direction is to continue with these districts do we modify the dimensional standards and see what that does do we go back and looking at um and so this uh this Pine Street number two map shows one sing s Le district and our model we've kept it to subdistricts so we can remodel each of those subdistricts with a this this gets back to that average density we can remod each of these subdistricts with a different set of dimensional standards depending on what we want to have there so we don't have to actually I'm just going to throw this back up on the share again just so I can illustrate this um we don't have to have them be way I'm showing them or where they're all the same so if you see here on this screen how they're each in a different column and right here these cells are basically merged because we got them all together but we can break this out so we could model um Pine Street on 12,000 square feet and Morrison Sawmill at 6,000 and powderhouse at 8,000 if you see what I mean we can vary that so these are larger they're 225 I'm just giving us an example of the fact that we can vary it by subd District that's all but I guess that what I'm hearing though overall is we're not going to change the underline zoning but this clearly would change the underline zoning you're not changing the underlying zoning at all you're putting an overlay on top of it that changes the zon that allows yes it has somebody allows somebody to do something different but the question is how different I think what you're what I'm hearing from you is that you don't want it to be that different so I think that becomes the question I'm just clarifying because what I keep hearing is not changing the underline zoning but you changing new zoning you're putting something on top of the changing zoning so I guess it's semantics in my opinion well I see what you're saying yes it you are by putting the overlay on top you are allowing somebody to have a different Choice from their Bas zoning you can do that two different ways you can say that the only thing that's different is we're allowing multif family azerite under these conditions or you can do that and say we'd like to vary the dimensional standards but to your point you could go back and say look we're putting the overlay here but we want to keep the same dimensional standards the only change we want to make is that multif family allowing that multif family as a right in which case there wouldn't be a difference between the base standards and the over standards in that subdistrict well I think one another thing that's you know marched in this town that is our lots are subservient and they're not conforming but actually if you take High Street Number Two and you just start on the southwesterly side and you go down there actually are they they're the first 1 2 3 4 5 six seven lots are actually if they were in District G they would be 6,000 square feet and they would be conforming but they're not they're in District a which they're massively under you know under conforming so then my next point is so if you took those 1 2 3 4 5 six seven Lots which are about6 ft each and those seven Lots add up to be a little bit more than an acre you know we say 15 units per acre but if you actually just say Okay this house can be a three family now this can be a three family this can be a three family we're actually talking about 24 units Breer on that little the first seven houses that I just calculated correct so um uh obviously i' have to to add it all up but yes if you look at this I put on the screen uh Pine Street um just so you can see the subd district so we've actually got a calculated density um right now of 12 units per acre across this whole subd District because to your point those smaller lots are are to the sort of the lower part of that District As you move up you have some larger Lots so there's an offset there yeah the model models each parcel individually so we have actually mapped that unit capacity out for communities I think we're waiting to find out are we at the right geography before we do that a lot of work um but we can map it out and say okay the unit capacity is this on this parcel according to residen city or the Assessor's data this is what's on there now what's the difference we can certainly do that analysis um at the appropriate Point well I pointed we're saying 15 units per AC but if this was actually built out the first seven units you say 24 units you would be so surprised we did this in a community once where were showing existing build actually we've done in two different communities where we show existing buildings um one of my colleagues did a guess and game and said how dense is this building and it was like a um a three family on a 10,000 foot lot well that's a lot more dense than we think it is they had a couple of uh um mixed use buildings that were tiny little buildings and were something like 22 or you didn't take one of these lots and say what does a three family look on it and can we get four and A parking spots on it we did actually um but not quite in the way that you say so we understood that there is um an existing uh zoning rule that allows you to go up to three units in an existing building if you can have the parking lots we actually modeled that out I don't have the data with me but these units are like 2400 square foot so that's not going to work right so you need 1,000 square feet per unit you need a, squ no I mean I kind of understand it so what we're modeling just isn't reality is what my question is the mo so that's a really good point um and I think that's important for for people to understand I'm glad you brought that up so there's two things that go into that one is the model like all zoning doesn't look at what's on the lot now so all zoning assumes a BL but you in turn Ed things that we have on paper for laws to justify this is what we modeled it let me let me finish on that so all zoning your existing zoning new zoning whatever assumes Blank Slate so it doesn't care what's on the lot now well we tried to do was a combination of um using your existing zoning to test things again we were trying to get to geography knowing that we could always change the dimensional standards um we made some variations so for example we took your four units for a lot restriction off um because otherwise you weren't going to have any sort of capacity and we couldn't test it at all um it's also important to understand that there's a lot of other factors that go into actual production beyond what the model can model so we're not considering topography you have quite a bit of topography especially in this area of town just looking at how the buildings fit on the lot the model can't deal with that so when you start talking about okay there's this zoning that exists and I own property and I want to develop something on that property as with any zoning there's going to be height restrictions there's going to be setbacks but there's also going to be the unique characteristics of the parcel itself the compliance model is basically a buildout analysis that takes a certain amount of input and says based on this input this is what we're calculating as unit capacity if somebody were to go and actually apply for a development they might not be able to get to the number of limits that say that the model says could be there because there are all those other factors that are going into actually developing property I I get that but you're using assumptions that don't apply to that District so we can change those assumptions and make them apply to the district and come back and tell you what that looks like I think that's important because what I'm hearing is that we're not changing underling zoning but we're going to change overlanding zoning so like to maybe we say that is that we're not changing zoning underlining we're going to change over so I mean that's that's a big deal and um I guess back to Newport Park yeah I it was brought up a few meetings ago that this is age restriced so why is this back in so it is so you're absolutely correct that it's age restricted I had my um research team delve into the Deeds uh it was restricted by a vote of town meeting the um vote is attached to the deed although the deed itself doesn't say this is age restricted it refers back to that uh vote um we understand from the research that we have found to date first of all that you will want to talk to C Town counil always but second of all that such a restriction could potentially be lifted by town meeting it is not in the model as excluded land and so if the town wants to continue to model it as part of the strategy it can certainly do so but um I would strongly recommend talking to Town Council about um taking uh town meeting voting to take that age restriction off if you want to go forward with it I think what we I would also recommend is that when the draft goes to hlc in July or their 90-day review process before town meeting that we also ask them their thoughts on that there's also a few condos closer here that I know are age restricted uh further down in the on Pine Street on Pine Street that are within the borders correct okay they're deed restricted data okay that wasn't brought to our attention we can have a look at that so does your I mean this there's the second thing that's been brought to your attention does this not find information we have to bring everything to your attention the um layers that we have from the state identify excluded land if that data that deed restriction is not part of the information from the state then we don't necessarily know that it exists we don't have the scope to look at the deed restrictions on every property in town so we do rely as consultants on Knowledge from people in the town to do exactly suggest some today as bring something to our attention so I appreciate that great thank you yeah can I add on to that question I did see Sarah with her hand up and she had hasn't had a chance to speak so I thought I might the opportunity hi there um thank you um to the task force for all their hard work and to Emily for your thorough presentation tonight it was very informative um I wanted to just ask Emily if um she feels that the state will be fine with the um parking restrictions that are being discussed by The Proposal one and a half um spaces per unit is that something you feel is that the state is is fine with um if I may answer um yes that is uh I think that's reasonable given what we've seen elsewhere um so typically for units that are closer to ad station um we look at lower units but 1.5 is uh within the discussion that I've seen and other communities I haven't seen anybody call that out if you were if you were requiring three parking spaces per unit I would definitely be worried but um 1.5 that that's within the range I've seen recently I've seen s in a much much more urbanized area than Gloucester I haven't seen that um sorry Manchester I was in Gloucester um about 15 minutes before I arrived here so my apologies um uh much more urbanized than Manchester I haven't seen too many above 1.5 um at this point okay that's great because I I just sat on a there was an early dhcd call where they asserted that you wouldn't need any parking and I think that's I think we all agree that that's not consistent with what our needs are in Manchester so thank you for that clarification it's important and something we hear over and over so really important to know that um each unit will have parking requirements in order to get the of right um designation thanks you very welcome thank you la uh Emily and the task force thank you so much for your excellent work it's cly very thoughtful and you've run through a lot of scenarios um so it's um very helpful to see the presentation tonight kind of walk through the different models I have some questions about the Calvin property which I understand is in the LCDs that right as for this um scenario and so do all I have a couple of questions related to that do all the scenarios use the LCD or are there some that do not use the LCD that's question number one you you count on that for all of these to meet the requirements when we yes the area for all of the outside um the half mile radius area those were all in the LCD we had looked at some very early on that were a little bit closer to the train station but then instead of going back and forth this is the area that eventually got settled on we listed a couple of different Parcels in the area and this was going to be the last Model okay uh so because of its different nature than the existing density and historic settlement patterns of the downtowns can you or have you already looked at that for you know if you um increase its density or you add some you work within the 55 um height requirements say to move up or down the density the desired density of what's happening in area that is um the station area or in the existing Historic downtown have you kind of run some different models with that in mind yeah it's a good question we run a range of models um that we already reduced the height limitation to two and a half stories for the in LCD also yeah in the LCD just to see what that would do obviously we can change that again um we kept the because the 5 acre District it it um or 5 acre requirement LCD met that we left that in but we can certainly also um think about whether or not it would be subdivided and change that uh we have I actually played around with a couple of different options for um uh the open space requirements and the the building coverage and then the last thing I did because I wanted to test really quickly what would happen if if it were 100 units is I just put a unit cap on it and said you know it's a single parcel so what happens if I put a unit cap of 100 on it that's obviously too low I think 199 based on feedback is probably too high so you know is there something else that would work better and then again plug it back in and see how it works AC rest the district so I think there's um a lot of tailoring that to be that um the other thing and you know it goes to your developments uh the the fact that it's not the same pattern as the more historic clood of Manchester is this idea of you know should the development standards be different because it's a subdistrict it could be so you could have deeper setbacks because it's a larger single parcel you could require um different levels of visibility from the road um certainly access to it is going to be different so I do think that we could have a different set of development standards possibly designed governs as well for this because it is very different from it does seem like that has um potential for that area of being a different quality and with a kind of critical mass of units to actually create a neighborhood a new neighborhood of own right and to think about what the design standard would be for that uh my last question on that is um regarding affordable housing can you speak to the LCD and is there a potential to gain some capital A affordable housing given this uh you know number of units and so forth in that particular parcel yeah that's a really good question so um uh the hlc the compliance guidelines restrict the amount of affordable housing you can have in the as of right to 10% of units at 80% of Ami basically um so there's a couple of things you can do obviously you can do that you can do an economic feasibility analysis which is what RTG Associates will do and what that does is test higher levels of affordability and see if they're feasible within the community and if so um you can uh you know require that we you've got that back up hlc requires it if you're going and buy higher levels that can either be a higher percentage of units or it can be deeper levels of affordability so St 80% Ami 60% or something like that the other thing that you can do and this might be more appropriate for this as opposed to the within the station area dist districts I think it's a conversation is you could allow a density bonus or a height bonus in this area for a deeper level of affordability um I've seen some communities look at doing that and they'll say you know for x% you can have extra story or extra number of units or again um some of the communities I work with 80% because it's uh for them it's based on Boston Cambridge Metro 80% doesn't do much for that particular community so they talked about maybe we allow a lower level so the 60% which is more reasonable for our community in exchange for the extra units for the extra height so so that would be really interesting if we're able to model how much we could gain in affordable housing by a density um you know density bonus or some of these different affordability rates would be great to see because it's clearly uh priority for the town to increase capital A affordable housing it seems like a great opportunity to do it yeah and um we can use that for we can use a compliance model to do that so for example it's modeled at two and a half stories now we could model it at three and a half stories or we could model it at say just to split the difference 150 units and then model it of 175 units or whatever it is we want to do we can test that in a couple of different ways and see what that looks like be interesting to just if you let the 55 feet height requirement stay just for the purpose of the model and then you looked at that and to see to quantify how many capital A affordable units you could realize with these different um you know affordability limits and uh possible density thresholds um open space you know clustered Zoning for open space for density um that would be a really interesting thing to kind of prove out to see how far we could get to our goals of being affordable housing and kind of kill two birds with one stone here yes and your your mention of Open Space is really interesting because on these bigger Lots you do have that option of encouraging the clustered development and then thus preserving a wider um contiguous Boer of the open space and given the amount of open space just you know for everybody to see on screen now the amount of open space next to this parcel that could be a really interesting strategy to think about so basically creating an as of right cluster district and figuring out the rules around that so that could make my life a little bit more difficult reasonable strategy right for the town to consider for that parcel it make a lot of sense thank you Mar so I have a handful of questions that okay what's a handful five um so going back on Christine's question um with the 6,000 overlay versus 22,500 actual zoning are you still honoring the setbacks that are within the district so if you're in District a you're honoring the 50 Foot setback or 40 foot setback or whatever it is in the new overlay we haven't gotten to that point yet uh so the model asked you to input setbacks but they don't actually make a um a difference to the model so I think the setback question is absolutely open for discussion and so that's something and I think uh you had mention mentioned earlier the idea somebody has you know a smaller house and then there's a larger house that goes in so you know keeping the set back from the street uh development standards requiring buffers there's there's some other things that can happen with that to reduce that potentially reduce that impact and all of those are still up for discussion because they're not part of the compliance model so um those go into that level of control that compliance model can't actually model um and I thought had heard at one of the task force meetings um modeling with two off street parking spaces 6,000 square foot lot I would recommend that we try to do the two off street parking we have very limited parking in these areas um and that would only exacerbate on street parking um I don't know any family that has less than two cars so um I think if we could look at that um and with the affordable piece if it's currently 10% so you would somebody would have to build six units or more to trigger one unit correct so if we've got all these 6,000 square foot Lots we've got three units three units three units we're not triggering any affordable unit that is correct so um uh actually I have this conversation with hlc earlier today about another project um uh the samples zoning has a requirement let you not ground down so if you are at 10 units or above at your threshold um they're okay with you rounding down I had one community that had their Threshold at five and um sorry rounding up you can't Round Up u in one community that the threshold is five and if you round up to one unit you're at 20% Which is not allow it has to be 10 so yes if you have six units or 10 units as your threshold anything that's built underneath your threshold uh does not produce affordable housing so I think that's where your question about outside the Hile R important if you're looking to generate a affordable housing um and then with some of these Districts The Pine Street the Valentine summer um they they get into the um National Historic register um did the task force consider honoring that and staying away from those zones that it doesn't look like it so I'm just kind of questioning I mean we're looking at the historic district but not the National Historic register we on purpose left every historic district out of it that's why these like the little Sawtooth along Bridge Street or Central Street so if I look at the gis system um so if you look at the tapen summer the um that one parcel on tap in the actually in the National Historic register District which partial Mary it shouldn't be any it should not be any so if you it's the the one that's on tap and and SE Valentine Valentine the little that's his St no just in the register it's in that District so same with the two properties on C Street and then some of the properties on S Street in the National Historic the federal registry so we have an O not an overl we in the gis system you can look at the national you can look at Manchester historic district and then there's a uh areas marked out that are National have done this their own to their no the federal government has defined this is an area that if somebody wants to apply they want to apply yes so they've defined it as an area that's eligible for eligible so it's not the same as the Manchester historic district I'm just questioning if we're trying to maintain the historic character but if we could look at that is protecting those areas as well um when we put these together none of the property should be in either of the districts so um I will have to check but um when I drew these I can send you the maps I mean this is just off the gis from the town website that's what we used so um so certainly we can track and something to dra we canw that's part of the reason we test these right it's to say oh I didn't know that or what about this um there have been a lot of uh conversations with the task force what about this building and I've had to ask wait which bu you the mean because sometimes the name is a little bit older it might be so we can certainly tap look double chat I can also um pull the matus um which is the math historic commission uh data layer I can pull that from G and overlay it as well and we can double check it that so yeah I mean I think it's a decision the town makes either we want to you know honor those districts or not so and then my I guess my last question is basically is this a presentation asking if the planning board agrees with these as the overlays or is this just information it's just an informational transfer um what we're going to try to do is now that we met try to have a properly posted meeting with you guys move forward um if we want to schedule public hearings and public forums try to get the word out and then I now that the board has some um idea of what tit force is presenting to you know review this stuff and we should meet again and discuss it further I mean does t for have any other ideas on what you want to do move forward so we would like to move forward but we don't want to do that if the planning board is going to tell us these districts are ridiculous start over again um so we'd like to know we' like to get some feedback is this are these reasonable to pursue or should we start over we that's the question and uh secondly do you want the task force to continue working on these or is this something that the planning board should take over at this point I think it's in the best interest of the town with the task force who has been working on this for many months maybe a year now to continue to support the planning board you what you do a fantastic job a very diverse group and I opinion is that I think we would want you to continue question totally unrelated to the current discussion another math question uh the parcel that is I think called Newport Park outline in brown so um that also seems like it has some different physical characteristics than other than either the station District or the LCD that are kind of unique to it because it is entirely well on three sides surrounded by Town open space and so and I know there is existing development there um unrelated to whether we make a different choice about age restrictions that seems like when you get down to the level of the physical setbacks and what the rules are for each kind of subd District or neighborhood that would be an important one to um cluster and preserve open space because it is such an important it's when in the densest part of town and so it's a great resource for um ecological resource and recreational resource for uh the community and so I would just advocate for you know I don't I don't know whether that changes the density at all in the count of the units but in terms of the physical um development of that of that subdistrict that it should be um looking to preserve open space as our primary goal yeah that's a great point and again same thing it's we because we're calling out of a separate uh subdistrict it can have different rules it can standards so it's one of the reasons that um once uh you know we we group this under the K Street too as a single district for that contiguity requirement right um we kept them as the separate subdistricts because we did recognize that they have very different characteristics so this could all be part of the contiguous minimum requirement but each of those colors could have a different physical setback or absolutely y thank you ni part all right just conceptually um if we start with you know 60 p and the last the first one on that we go down and we get to 24 units per acre and say they're all built out so at that point none of these are going to relate to our Shi right so then now if these units are all built out as is as anticipated in this new zoning we would be behind an additional two units on our affordable housing inventory is that correct uh if if you're allowing them to only be built out as three units yeah that would be sorry um if those were the only things that happened right if you didn't have any other development elsewhere that was over that but certainly those units uh those Parcels would not contribute I'm just making sure there's no other conversations that have happened between you and the state you see like a hotline to the state no I just happened to be um uh they do take questions from Consultants I just happen to be on a call with them with I'm just making sure that I haven't heard that answer so I just want to make sure that and so now just to clarify you are promoting because you're including Newport Park in this plan to go to town meeting and vote to have the affordable I mean the senior deed restrictions removed I'm not promoting I'm just saying but by including that in the zone that's what would have to be done to include this so that's what I would want to check with hlc because the overlay might I don't know I don't think the overlay overrides that deed restriction um so I think it is an open question I'm just saying I think that the pathway would be that town Bas on what we we just my team has researched I think that would have to be the pathway but I'm not recommending it I'm just saying that's what we've see so okay but I think you said the pathway feel like the Gordon College land would have to be you know you know changing deeds and things like that so I mean you've talked about other properties that's a very good point for the Gordon College that is currently excluded land um which means technically it can't be modeled for capacity we have a way in the model of overriding that so we can test but it's absolutely true I've had this conversation with hlc last fall I think on a couple of completely different projects um excluded land would have to be um no longer excluded uh by the date that you needed to comply in order to be part of that strategy so just for Gordon College say that would have to not be under the private educational ownership that is currently making it excluded l so this deed restriction for senior housing isn't good enough is that what I'm hearing well you can't have age restriction and so we modeled it I'm just trying to I'm just trying to we modeled it because it's not currently listed as excluded land had I not known that there was a deed restriction you know I would have just gone on but I was told there was a deed restriction so we researched it so have you and I I haven't heard you have you discussed the shingle Hill property as using that as a district I do not recall hearing shingle Hill where is that so it's the proposed 40b property on the other side of the Calin properties okay um that wasn't that was not one of the ones we Ted you looked at is there a reason why if it's going to be built was ask to model it that's reason and then is there a reason why we haven't looked at the sell signaling land itself yes I can answer that it's 50 acres so that would be zoned for 400 units or something which well I mean on the same conversations I've heard you guys talk about being paper compliant so if they're going to have parking lots and buildings and Laboratories it wouldn't be 50 units and just as you were talking about breaking off land at Gordon College I mean it all can be done if it's chosen to be that way right anything can be done right so I mean the golf course this I mean they all could be done so we've talked about you've talked about in detail about doing it for the Gordon College land can we get it done in time so I mean if conversation is they need Workforce housing perhaps it should just can't they do an on themselves El they haven't asked us to can we ask them is the question sounds like there's lots of conversations that happen outside of these meetings so I'm asking the question accuse me are you accusing us of something no no I mean no there's letters from Gordon College that are going around so there are public they're yes there's outside of these meetings yes I'm saying that and yes I'm asking can that conversation happened and what what difference would that make Christina to you if that conversation I'm asking can it happen well why would we take that step is it going to make a difference to you or someone else and so I think the land the 50 acres that it's serving would be on the same property if they need Workforce housing perhaps the land should be on theirs I mean I don't think it's h of the box I mean it's their land they have a lot of land use their own land if they need Workforce housing they have not approached us and asked us to Zone any did Calin properties approach no I not okay just checking so um let's let's try to get some consensus here do the board have any major objections for uh zoning OA districts and does the board want to see any others included or any changes made just for consensus is the board pretty happy with this um um or do we want to look at others or do we want to hone what's here Dan sarah sarah Sarah sorry see um I think for my consensus to answer your question Ron is that the task force has done a lot of work um they have convinced me that they've um put forward a strong um set of uh districts to be looked at further so I think we should encourage them them to continue to refine and um move forward with these I also to just to Circle back on the prior comment um I think we're trying to move forward here in good faith to comply with this challenging mandate we're not trying to um look at every um eventuality and and I I mean I think the team has looked at every eventual or every opportunity and has thought carefully about how to meet the um goals that they set out in the beginning which if we had hearkened back to those I think it's a really strong set of goals and so I commend them for putting these forward also just I guess I'll stop there thanks so two two Avenues um I I would like to when we have a joint meeting with the task force um to take a step back because when we initially voted in the task force um and I have an email from the Town Administrator they they were to um investigate two tracks one track was complying and the other on H so on how we might comply and how we if we decide not to comply so I think it's important that we still follow those two tracks um I know there's a a consensus out there that um you know grant money and we don't want to get Grant you know we don't want to lose grant money but I think it's important to do the financial analysis balance that what we've received over the past 10 plus years which is that 600,000 to what potentially going forward and what the impact would be to other costs what to the schools to the infrastructure to the water Le you know so we set out saying we were going to investigate two tracks and I think you know we are still going to town meeting with a yes or no vote and so I think residents should have all of the data to do a yes or no vote um so I I look I don't know when we're slated to get that financial analysis done um hopefully when we meet that would be great um the um you know because there's obviously both macro and micro level concerns wrapped up into that um as far as the districts I know it's really hard um thinking of districts and where they would go I do have concerns when we're dipping into single family zoning when we when the task force um it's done such a hard job trying to stay out of it so there are homes that are single family that are impacted I think if we could try to stay away from that um I think the LCD is problematic in the sense that it could be a lot of housing um especially if the 40b were to go through also so with your numbers your saying 199 I think you're going to hopefully bring that down but even if it's 150 100 still looking at the 132 units with the potential 40b that's a lot of units in the commercial District I think we should really try to keep the commercial district for commercial um so maybe if there's other areas in town we could look at um I think it would be good to have some options and that to understand the benefits and the pros and the cons if if if other districts are looked at and maybe these will come back and look really great but I I just haven't seen other examples so thank you I dis agree it's either comply or not comply I think um we have an obligation to the town find a way to comply with the law it doesn't exstensively hurt the character of of the town now if people want to say no I don't think it's the planning board's job to say no I think it's our jobs to find a way to comply with the least harm to the town otherwise we lose grant money and the state can Zone whatever they want they can come in here and Zone take away all this work my opinion so I'm just asking for data to so we understand the picture Okay so Mary you threw out the figure of 600,000 and can you tell me about that figure so the 600,000 equates to the three grants that are in the law the three Grant buckets that are in the law the mass works the um I got right here these local capitals small grants something like that and then there's a third one the guidelines list out 13 other ones um as they kept changing the guidelines those are in your 600 no okay um so the 600 is 500,000 that we got in dredging and 100,000 that was a wastewater treatment study to decommission and to potentially build housing there um we have a list of rants that I have tried um to map to the 13 additional buckets that they added to the guidelines but I haven't been able to do that so I'm not clear that they're all fall under those buckets and I think um you know some grants you might not apply for if you knew it was tied to something that you you wanted to do or didn't want to do so get the 600,000 is just what it's been over the past 10 plus years thank you good I just add something on the grants um I didn't realize this until relatively recently but a fourth one was added to the law um uh just so you know the Housing Works infrastructure program um was also added to the lot not the 13 grants that were out in August but the actual law itself I don't know if that has any implications for you or not like to know so what is it called the housing um Housing Works infrastructure program established in section 27 of chapter 23b so did they add it because I haven't seen that on their website that was added if you check um section 3A on um ml's actual website with all the general laws it's in there somebody told me last week so Dan I think you've made an interesting cut off on when we consider grants because we have a $3.5 million grant for under Mass Works um that we have received in the last year um you should change your balance so that's a new one I'm just going off of data we had when the task force was form it's a new one and it's very significant so so my understanding is that's 3.5 million for sell signaling and then they will reimburse the town $1 million because it's a matching Grant you emitted a significant portion if you're asking a Becky Jake select board if you're asking for facts Mary please present facts and not just segments of them it's it's really disingenuous to only present what you feel should be seen so I apologize I I have not received word that we' received that 3 5 million where are you getting the word from AR the Town Administrator the Town Administrator and is he just sending you everything or are you request I'm just I'm trying to understand why why what you bring forth is always in a negative to finding a common Solution that's good for everybody what what is what is that you are so afraid is going to happen um so specifically I'm not afraid and I unless I misspoke I believe I was just asking to have data so that residents can understand how this will either impact tax rate property values and a positive or A negative and again my point is data is great present the facts not portions or your perspective or what you think is fact please present facts Mary I will do my best thank okay um not go ahead Laur I'm sorry Ron I was just looking at the slides in our packet our planning board packet called slides for Forum are this is this what was presented at the 48 Forum the last slide in that packet you show examples of density and chapter 4 48 section 3A where do we go from here maybe this is an old reform but it's in our planning board packet and the last slid shows the MBTA um test Force member sorry that second to last slide grants received in the past 10 years totaling $5.3 million with another $6 million or so in the next few years that are anticipated and the estimated percent tax rate increase additional every year 2.11% I think that's assuming that we foro those grants so that I just wanted to ask the source of the information it looks like it's on Manchester by the SE letterhead and so I assume that there was some um information to back that up and then someone put it together I believe Greg fi presented us at list last summer okay so that's that's nicely stated it's in our packet everyone had a chance to review it it's called Forum in the total that you just read or is it the 3.5 is anticipated anticipated one of the anticipated grants and the 5.3 million that have already been received is the last 10 years on average 10e average 500,000 and the estimated percent tax rate increase 2.11% every year and and I assume that means if we would forgo the grants I just wanted to um put that information out there because it has been presented by the town on letterhead and I also just wanted to say that we talk a lot about negative impacts of this housing we are our town changes and continues to change it's not encased in Amber it's a beautiful historic town I think the task force is doing really hard and good work to preserve the things that are special about it and preserve the resources we also do need housing our kids can't afford to stay here new families can't afford to move in single family housing as a right doesn't mean no change will happen change will continue to happen we see tear downs we see houses that maybe a family bought you know decades ago for a very different amount than it's selling for now and so um it does change the character of the neighborhoods it just continues to change that's okay change isn't always bad but I think that we should maybe just think about this is not a bad thing but we're trying to allow housing to happen for people different incomes different family types multif family housing isn't a bad thing it's can be a good thing it can be put in the right place people we can put controls around it just as we do with other zoning requirements that say setback and dimensional requirements we can put in design standards but I think that we should welcome new housing of different diversity for people of different diversity and family types and have controls over it that allow it to the the possibility for for it to happen we're not going to say we're going to go out and build this housing but we're allowing for the possibility of it and we're putting controls that allow it to be um future development to be under our guidelines that the town I think it's working hard together with this really diverse cross-section of people coming together to to just allow the possibility to happen I think it's there's a housing crisis and I just want to say you know it's not it's not all negative impact I think there's a lot of good here that we're doing and I think we also have the potential to look at affordable housing capital A which we also need more of we didn't get to this point of being behind in affordable housing by allowing multif family housing we it's just by nature of decades and Decades of single family housing that we're here so I I really see the good in this I thank the task force for the work I think it's excellent work I um you know I rais some questions about different types of subdistrict controls which I think are important to look at in the future but my recommendation would be to um take the task force um recommendations on the districts they've um put before us do those additional studies and come back to us with you know what you find next but I I um I support the work and I support concept of responsible uh zoning to allow multif family housing right thank you okay so so one thing I do want to say if we do go ahead with this I think the next step would be uh some kind of a forum much the way the Rotunda was done uh to discuss this big District that we've talked about the Pine Street um powderhouse mors Court Newport uh site and get people to ask questions and have comments about it we could do it as part of one of our our next task force meeting and just start getting some input I don't know if the board would would like think that's a good idea or I think good idea um um I just uh want to add to something that Chris said earlier in our work on the design guidelines we focused on the town proper and we stopped when we got to the issue of the LCD because clearly whatever design guidelines we apply to the town are probably not going to be the ones we want to apply to the LCD and this seems like a planning board issue we really could use some guidance from the planning board in order to go forward with some design guidelines to provide some guidance on any development we do on the other side of 128 actually for any development Beyond a certain size and away from the downtown okay so I think need to make one comment um and thank you for pointing that out because um on the MBTA website as in our packet as in the presentation the 3.5 million is in the anticipated um grants so when I spoke about the 600,000 I'm going off public documents and I do continually get bashed by certain people and I do wish it would shop and I'm sorry if asking for data is viewed as a negative um that's how I make decisions and so I just wanted to clear that up Sarah um I just wanted to go back to the design guidelines question and a question for Emily that I was unclear about um you said that the design guidelines couldn't be just for the I believe I heard you say um two things one is that they are drafted by the special permit or the uh oversight uh I guess by the planning board uh how however you however you put it and then the other question the question I have is they have to apply to all properties in the um District um evenly even if it's not a multif family district is that correct or did I mishear that and then we can come question about um the LCD I I think maybe I I wasn't clear when I spoke rather than you miss hearing um so the design guidelines can't make it more difficult to do multifam than another use uh in other words you don't want the design guidelines or hlc doesn't want the design guidelines to effectively prohibit the multif family use because of the requirements so um that's where uh having design guidelines that aren't clear that aren't understandable that our subjective effectively reduces that as of right use because there's um uh you know there's no clear path to that as of right use so as we think about developing the design guidelines we just want to make sure that they're not tripping into the for example you can only use um a trees that are 200 years old to um create the clabs for the historic building probably not going to be accepted because those board widths aren't around anymore um uh but something that says that you know the uh an infill building uh or an addition has to be consistent with the uh in um uh in style or in U massing with existing additions in the area or the uh strong horizontal lines of the new infill have to be consistent that would probably as I understand it now that would probably be accepted so I'm cons continuing to research what other communities are doing can I answer another and the design guidelines are adopted by the planning board I'm sorry to interrupt you Chris um are the pl design guidelines adopted by the planning board and strategically would it make sense to dra adopt them in advance of town meeting um so that people understand that this is a so I think it's very important Sarah that the the design guidelines only apply to properties that are being developed under the terms of the overlay District the base zoning stays the same so if you have a single family house and you want to renovate it you don't have to comply with the design guidelines it's only if you're doing multif family and under the terms of the overlay District that You' come for a a site plan review right it's it's the overlay District that governs it and then to the point um of adopting who adopts the design guidelines you can do it two different ways um you could put them in the zoning the language that I quoted earlier uh establishes the ability for a planning board to adopt the so it basically sits in the zoning and points to the planning board being able to adopt the design guidelines it's usually done after a public hearing it keeps it outside the zoning I tend to to like that because it allows the planning board to adopt or to modify the design guidelines without having to go back to town meeting if they're not finding they working remembering that town meeting obviously votes on the overall zoning and requirements there um timing I could go either way I think that is up to the Judgment of the the planning board the select board input from the task force as to whether or not those should be adopted prior to town meeting or at least ready and publicly available prior to town meeting and adopted afterwards I I think that's a a community discussion and decision but certainly you could do either of those just have an observation so when you look at Milton and their issue was you know one area of Milton was burdened and the rest was excluded and they you know came to an uprising I mean when you look at the maps I mean Manchester isn't that much different when we said we were going to try and stay away from single family districts you did to a certain extent but the people on SE Street and Pine Street so I just just a comment I if I was looking at this and I was in some of these districts which I'm not far off from one I would say this is not maybe Equitable why did you look at each district and say maybe everyone should take a bit of the burden I'm I'm just this is just an idea and then I did see some chat questions so are you going to offer up questions to public hearing oh I understand this but there's lots of people that have commented that our part of boards okay so that that's different if you're not on a committee or this board I wasn't taking public comment tonight that's what the Forum public hearings are for okay that's my plan I think we've kind of I think we've kind of well I just I want to follow up on what Richard was asking the board to do and kind of goes to some of the comments that were made about the uh particularly the LCD parcel so the L CD parcel is seven 7.6 Acres or 6.8 depending where you get it but at 15 units an acre that's 105 that's 7 Acres or 140 at 20 units an acre so right now it's modeled at 19 99 so in order to do a development like that we really realistically we can't do an open space residential cluster development you're not talking about that what Richard was saying is you can have variety of high density housing constructed in different formats and in different scales and different sty that's I think what Richard was trying to say was for the planning more think if we're doing a high density housing neighborhood what is that style you'd like to see would you like to see like you see along Route 128 there are variety of um 40b developments which are four-story wood frame buildings cluster around a central Courtyard sometimes with a u uh little Community Center in the middle parking kind of scattered about uh the bigger ones sometimes will have the structured parking um again to get the density here there may have to be some of that but it can be if you paid attention there's different styles and some are um you know uh you know clap look like clab board with porches and and uh balconies and and that type of uh thing that's quite common others are brick others are mix of some tow houses along with an apartment style buildings um try and create a little village type again we don't have a lot of space uh you know we'll look at modeling some of the little more density in the downtown area so that we can reduce that overall density in the back and we talking about before but I mean that's the kind of the feedback that or or the thought that the planning board should um uh look at um the uh in order to U allow the uh design subcommittee to put together something to to guide a developer uh if that ever got developed so um so I think that's something that the board should think about maybe between now in the next meeting so that you can give the task force and the the architectural subcommittee members some guidance on on what you'd like to to see there so okay so I've heard um the or plans you submitted I've heard no major objection from the board on moving forward with this um any changes I haven't heard from anyone on the board that major changes to look elsewhere but if there are I would send maybe an email to you for you mark you can Sate to the task force y uh we need to continue meeting um this meeting was a little bit of a disconnect but I think we've made a lot of progress in spite of that so um couple of things I think regarding this topic is a forum similar to what we held on the zoning Forum I think I would let you guys take the lead on that uh the next thing would be a joint meeting with us again probably in two three weeks time sure maybe sooner I don't know but are you still meeting regularly yes um so we would have to find a mutual date that we can meet it may be one of your Thursday meetings I don't know okay and then to the board on other subject we're now entering a peer review phase for the sell signaling project the first peer review was scheduled originally for April 8th I subsequently found out that several members couldn't make that date Mark has asked through an email to you guys which dates can you make it's important to for you to attend those meetings because once you miss two you're out you can't rule on it so it's important to nail the schedule now I think there's four or six of them I don't you yeah there's again those probably at least three minutes main topics one will be the general engineering of the site one will be on traffic and one will be on um Landscaping um lighting and some of the other pereral items but then there'll be follow-up meetings again depending on what the review shows and what the comments are from the he reviewers um there will have to be some follow-up meetings and it can't really project what that would be at this point because the we haven't received comment letters the point is to just find available dates at this point so yes I think we got to just set the peer review date next and then we can work around it with the I mean the the the CST dat the next CST because you can't meet on the eth celestial so I just want to make clarify right there's people that are in these zones that have their hands up that you just have no intention on recognizing that's correct I think I spoke to you on that while you're bringing it up again just want make sure so when can they be what's your point thirsday they can be heard they can come to task force meeting next accept questions then is not a public hearing Miss no I didn't say it was I'm just making no I mean I'm trying to it's it's it's it was for the task was to transmit data to us who you want to have us that's what's happened just clarify to the public I see how your hand raised not a public hearing but can go to the task force meeting have your questions answer then or write to the task force I I thought that at the beginning of this meeting it was stated that there it was public for one of the boards but not the other it wasn't for the task force because has to be was it you have a question yeah I mean I just to the point of ignor the entire time and putting my comments in the in the and and in the comment section and and those being annoyed it is it is a bit annoying but yes I am in in one of the districts here the Valentine to to Summer and I have questions just around how what was contemplated when coming up with this Zone I mean is is the modeling something that's feasible when you combine three single family homes with uh with the the our company with some small businesses all all of this would probably have to come together in order to in order to make the modeled number of units what was the thinking there and how and how did you come up with the with the proposal so you'd have to bring that up to the task force playing boy didn't have any thinking on there and answer that it seemed like at one point there was somebody there that was commenting on on very specific aspects of other zones so I wonder if that individual is still there and can provide any commentary Emily so just a reminder that the model calculates unit capacity based on the zoning parameters that were put in there there is not a production requirement right the town doesn't have to produce this the people who own the properties don't have to produce this so in terms of feasibility there's a whole host of development feasibility issues we talked about some of the phys physical characteristics but there's also Financial characteristics so the the person on screen mentioned a couple of different uses it would be up to those Property Owners to decide if the overlay gave them a better Financial return than their current uses so the model can say we put this overlay District on this is how the capacity is calculated it's up to the property owner to decide a if they want to do anything and B if so how much they want to do you can have a property that's modeled for 10 units the property owner decides I only want to put four or I don't want to change mine at all so that's the difference between a buildout model the the the um compliance model that calculates possibilities and people's actual choices and putting that into us thank you um much time do you have left with us uh I thought you were wrapping up so I am but I mean in the future meetings and um I'm here with you I think our contracts to the end of the year so um we I have to check how many meetings are left but Chris and Mark you and I can talk about that okay so we'll send out notice on when our next meetings are we we have nothing scheduled at the April 8th I guess is canc right we should take another date right now for the CST should pick up pick a followup date with the pass Force yeah okay so you want to pick a date for a joint meeting with the planning board from the planning board so but before we do that we we should pick date to follow up with CST because you have to cancel the a not we do have to show up and continue the meeting right so I need a quarum that day I need a quarum to come in and say yay and that's correct unless we want to handle some simple agenda items yes you need a quum um in order to open the hearing and vote continually what about April what about April 9th I know you floated that out there [Music] um I'm the only one I think who can't make the night so April 10th well that starts getting um we need a [Music] room yeah April 10th I'm sorry I have a work commitment April 11th I'm gone so how many of us can't be here on the 8th um one two and Sarah three okay and that's starts once you miss one you're going to be better me if you don't even have a quorum to meet on the a I mean it's not the end of the world that I'd have to republish the public hearing notice we'd have to start at the beginning with CST because if you have how many people can't make the eth I might not be able to I'll be available on Zoom to continue the hearing oh so Sarah can dial in I can probably how many of us can dial in good I mean I didn't say it wasn't available I mean so it's other people um I can't I the 11th I can't make so sorry I sent mark my um availability so do we have a quum if it's on Zoom yeah no yes no long as someone's here oh you can't make it I yeah no the a yeah I can make it can be me and you [Laughter] then well me and here there's four we're done so so the I don't it sounds like the eighth works is my point okay so you can have AUM to hold the meeting to continue CST all right let hold it on the pick the next date yeah what was that I'm sorry show hold regular me the advantage is April has five Mondays so there is an extra Monday so how about the 15 is that the that's a holiday just to continue the hearing on the April 16th that works that's a conflict with the 16 16th yeah we really need to stick with our I can make yeah 16th works for me is that for the test joint meeting no still doing C 16 16 16 we want to make this 16 yes yes good yes yes did we just had a select board meets on that day yes yes we've made a policy we we've tried not to can do that right like so we have certain weeks is that a public hearing on the 16th we shouldn't conf the select board if it is is that the CST yes I think that might not be good why is that not good yeah what because if people want to hear the CST public hearing but also want to attend the plan uh select board we have all the good stuff well wants to hear s yeah who wants to go I will stay out of that one but the SE Wednesday the 17 I don't why can't we just stick with our weeks that's a I guess the it's a holiday on Monday but that is a t so the eth is our week we're every other week right so we just I mean I schedule on the publish dates oh that's pass so 8 and 14 is um the eight the 22nd 22nd well that's tell meting no it's not 22nds already on our schedule so oh it's it's a holiday so we have to so we're meeting on the eth and then nobody wants the 16th or it would be fine with me that's okaying with me I'm not here I just I I've made arrangements on our normal weeks so I mean if we're going to do this I this feel like we should so the 22nd is our regular meeting so we ran into this last show it's Passover and we moved town meeting because of Passover just FYI I'm not Jewish I would not be offended but I'm sure there are people that would be so I just want to make note of that but Ron the other reason that the 16th could work um here is that if we do need to take action on a um purchase of property then we need to do it probably before she's about the town meeting the 16th would be good because it's before town meeting right so for the report that we have to do okay right so let's do the 16th yep you want to do it at 530 to help no I'm sorry I didn't outrage anyone I don't think I'll be back I'm traveling so I'll be in in flate I'm flexible 4:16 6:30 4 8 6:30 R you were doing a really good job of putting like the future meetings at the agenda can we try and do that for the next meeting well until this monkey wrench no but I mean the whole schedules throwing out what all these peer review things yeah I I'll put people will see them and then if there's an issue you can we can know ahead of time I'll refresh this yeah um let's talk about the nextest task force dat you're meeting on the 11 11th of April well actually should go up right is that your next meeting or the 4th our next meeting is in days yeah I don't know if we're ready to I think we can post in time well I think also the task force after tonight's meeting has some additional work to do so I think um Le yeah after that for the 11 April so is the planning board going to the task force not the task force going a joint meeting we're going to have to move going to be a mobile Force where do you have your meetings here right here well not a big we just won't have our regular seats we can give you your seats be your meeting all right let's tend to do we schedule that how's that work with everyone we'll meet with you guys okay I'm going to come late to that one R work engagement but I I'll just come late I mean I might be half an hour later something I have a non-negotiable work yeah I'm traveling okay so we said the 11 anything else I'll take a um the task force has asked the planning board for guidance on the LCD um I think it will be hard for you to give us guidance you haven't had a chance to talk about it beforeand so in one of your intermediate meetings could you find time to talk about um what your vision of a healthy development in the LCD certainly that might be good for the E okay could could I ask something else five questions um and I had it on my list and I forgot it so so we didn't obviously go over the design guidelines or you know I don't know who wrote this stuff but um it talked about mixed use districts which none of these are I mean there's one District that has Stanley and stuff like that but I didn't see that you were saying that the first floor remains commercial and you can build up so I'm just I'm confused like I don't see that you're talking mixed use but then it's in these drafts so that you can't require mixed juice under the NBTA communities act maybe we could talk about having a special permit for a mixed juice in certain subd districts certainly not in places that are residential but that's why it was in there it was it was just a place marker so you're currently not proposing no any mixed use now I mean the guidelines do spell out Mixed use and you can do it only if you restrict the first floor for commercial so well go ahead yeah um we we can't require it but we can zone for it in other words we can allow it in the overlay District so we could say something like in a particular subdistrict you're not required to have first floor retail but you you're allowed to do it um um so that okay right so that um they can do it by choice but and we could even offer an incentive maybe you can let them go up another store let them get a an extra density uh if they if they uh if that's a desirable thing to do in one of the subdistricts so but you're not currently propos we're not currently proposing that because that's like the next step we're we're not quite at that the committee's not quite at that level of detail so but I would say there are negatives to doing that that we balancing if you include that in your District you can't include the acreage the land area of that parcel you it's a complicated um calculation and and in a town like ours what we determine would that that would including that or making certain areas in our downtown as a mixed use District under the guidelines that would end up hurting us and requiring us to find more acreage in other places even though there would be a small discount in the number of units we would be required um at the end of the day it really ends up hurting us more than helping us and that that makes sense I just didn't it didn't sync up with what these proposed guidelines were saying design guidelines were saying so I just want make wanted to make sure that that wasn't something that was not appearent I have a question for the next time we meet jointly and I don't know if you'll be ready with this but you're talking about these just sort possible scenarios of how you might you know Grant extra or achieve these different goals is it possible to come with the kind of caps or the limits on um you know different subdistricts then you might need more time to model this but um you know I'm it would be nice to know what we could do without before the exceptions because I think that that could be a worry for people is you know if we do these where do we want to allow potential like density bonuses or something you know do we treat one subdistrict different than another so I know that's a Next Step but as you get to that it would be interesting to see that a little more granular so that we can understand the protections on the caps in terms of the you know the physical um changes that might happen or might not be so different under the zoning overlay that so anyhow I just you know if you could come to the to the to future meeting would that kind of talk us through that the way you did tonight I think would be very helpful to illustrate some of those possibilities okay I'll take a motion to adjourn all those in favor good good night