##VIDEO ID:67CicfQL5ps## being approximately 6:30 and call this meeting of the Manchester vo select board uh to order um Jeff here Kathy here an is here joh here or there okay then I'm sorry I sent you to the wrong place um okay um are there public comments on non agenda items yes thank you a Blossom Lane um I just wrote this down so I didn't sound um stupid um thank you select board in allowing my public comment this evening um you may or may not know but the Massachusetts Attorney General Andrea Campbell losted against the town of Milton took center stage at the state's highest court today lawyers representing the town of Milton and the state presented the oral arguments the case as you know sends from Milton's refusal to adopt zoning changes required by the law attorney general Campbell sued the town earlier in the year arguing she has brought authority to enforce the statute Milton contended the law provides only for withholding certain grants as penalty for non-compliance as we know the Court's eventual ruling could determine whether dozens of resisting communities face legal action or can maintain current zoning without any penalty beyond the loss of State funding the Justices today pressed lawyers from both sides on the limits of state power over local zoning and the adequacy of the Law's enforcement mechanisms the court also grappled with the Law's impact on local democracy a key issue in places like Marblehead and Milton where the voters have already rejected zoning one of the justices begins with a W I can't pronounce her last name questions suggest concerning that enforcing the NBTA communities act might override the Democratic will of residents who exercise their voting rights to reject the zoning changes just some other brief takeaways from the justices some different phrases were guidelines and normally background Provisions some of the justices use phrases like the agency has run a muck and the guidelines are improperly implemented when proving the import of the fact that the EHC did not utilize the procedures outlined in the State Law chapter 30A which agencies are required to follow when implementing regulations so the question at hand is whether the guidelines are enforceable that is what kind of came out of the law today um the the court today and with it potentially not being enforcable the the deadline for Milton would then not be enforcable because the deadlines for compliance are in the guidelines and there's some suggestion that this might all go back to the eh e eohc for further evaluation and review unfortunately we will have to wait for weeks for the outcome um possibly obviously not in time for our no no November 18th meeting so my question and statement to the select board this evening is would it behoove us as a town to get legal council's opinion on today's oral arguments and potentially send a letter to the attorney general to ask for an extension of our application and compliance to the state until we hear fjc ruling on the legality of 4A with many communities not complying at this point and delaying Town votes why wouldn't we wait at the community to vote on this law possibly uh for Springtown meeting thank you very much thank you we have heard you it's not on our agenda so we really can't talk about it that's why I could speak about it because it wasn't on your agenda thank you very much thank you thank you you're welcome thank you okay the Chairman's report um for those of you who have dialed in hoping to hear about once by Rock Hill because you haven't checked the agenda that has been put off for another month for another two weeks uh while we're waiting for some Legal Information um we have on um our also on our agenda a harbor management plan Task Force update um and unfortunately the chair of the hyri management plan task force is in another meeting now we have in front of us we have received a letter from Bion um describing the process that they are going through and I suggest that we wait until we can talk to the chair about what the goal is what the desired outcome what the possible outcomes are um rather than spending a lot of time on it tonight so I'm not saying that we pass over it but we actually like it um that's the extent of my report are there other than moving task force back on list of action items um are there any other action items that you need to consider I had a question um because at one point we had an action item to review the pilot program on Beach Street the parking enforcement automated parking enforcement I thought we were going to that after the season and I didn't go back and check other action item forms but I I thought it was on there or are we planning on including it in the discussion on November 4th on the parking policy just says resident parking stickers so I actually thought we would do the um stick review as part of U the chief's quarterly report oh okay so it'll be part of the chief's quarterly report that was my thinking on that one okay that's I just wanted to know where it was sure okay thank you any other okay um here is she yes I think she's coming in yeah she's she's on zo I'm present okay hi hi could you start by just giving us a very short description of of why your what your interest is in this committee and why you think it' be particularly good for it yes so I've applied to um be a participating member on the town welcoming committee and um my experience with the town welcoming committee actually um happened the first time when I moved to the town last February and um I received a plate of cookies and a nice card welcoming to the town and with contact info and a nice letter saying that if you need any help you'd like to be shown around um we have people who are willing to do that and I was very impressed also by um there's a paragraph in there about um pairing students up with uh like aged um peers and I thought that I've never lived in a town that's had a welcome committee so I was impressed by that and I felt welcomed um and I recently saw that they need volunteers to participate on the committee they've had a few people decide they wanted to leave and I thought it would be a good opportunity to uh contribute and to get to know people in town uh my background I come from a teaching I'm an educat former educator and um I worked on a similar volunteer committee at school there um called the Sunshine committee and we did things like welcoming new teachers hosting events taking collections for celebrations um things like that questions um no question just a comment it's nice to see someone who going to be on both Sid you know it's come in and seeing how it works and then so I think that's good deie how many openings do we have there's three left three left okay yeah yeah I was going to make the same comment as Jeff I think it would it would be great to have someone on the committee who just went through the experience of being welcomed and certainly it's fresh in your mind what U what went well and if there's any ideas that we have that could do better I think it'd be great seems well qualified John uh yeah I I think my colleagues have said it all someone who's new in town you you really have uh have experience as to as to what's working and what can be improved right now and I think that's very very important so great thanks for raising your hand last one yeah I can't add to that you know other than okay well I'm going to I'm done I'm I'm I'm going to uh Channel Becky was my job the next for member of the select always ask every volunteer do you have enough time to do this work um are you currently working um is there anything that is on your schedule that might inter here not that I foresee I work um usually nine to five hours I have a flexible schedule um and after work I just have commitments that I choose to commit to so um different classes and things like that um so I do have the freedom and the Leisure to participate and the time okay that see done do we have a motion yes I would like to move to um the select board and appoint Caitlyn peler to the welcoming committee for a term to expire on June 30th 2027 second discussion Jeff yes Kathy yes Don yes ran yes and I say yes thank you conations you I hope you enjoy being on the committee and I hope it inspires you to get more involved with the time yes thank you very much thank you thank you okay um Pon Goodridge not not vir not very welcoming he was notified okay well we can put off notify him again and put him on the next if he's still interested yep all right we have seven minutes or so people supposed to talk about the CH house I oh we're just flying right through this such an efficient meeting anybody bring a deck of cards um I have a couple of of updates um I did finally get back to the school committee um they are they are doing um the sorts of things that they often do in the fall which is to review programs um and and um um that really is an area where theic court has very little to do and very little bolish um of some interest is that they are working on a new policy for their reserves um they have reserves in a variety of forms um I think they have spent down their old uh Choice fund completely and that's not renewed because the choice money that comes in from choice in students spent in the year that it comes in um but they have other forms of reserves and they they decided to pick actually they haven't decided they're discussing whether they should have a range of they should measure they know that they want to measure their reserves against their annual budget and they're wondering whether they should have a range of percentages you know lower bound enough Le bound or whether they should have a target a single Target and they're talking about keeping 8 8% um and that that we will continue to talk about that in future meetings um yeah I think 8 to 10 is I want to be um that's um there's um some discussion that that um they don't need as much because um the towns also have reserves but the school can spend its reserves on the vote of the school committee um whereas the town reserves would have to go through a town meeting so if there were to be a crisis it's it has there's some Merit to their having money on their own to spend and one of the crises might be um that there's a failed budget and they go on a um what they call it 12 12s which is yeah where they spend only a 12th of what they spent the previous year um each month and and depending on when it hits it can be very awkward because you really have to make pain roll every time so appreciate it that's kind of where that is um and that's really the only thing that we're working on that I heard about that make mov okay [Music] um the consent agenda anyone anything anyone wants to take out of the consent agenda is there a motion on the consent agenda I move that the select board approve the consent agenda items second discussion I have one question I might ask that of Greg with regard to the consent agenda on on the vehicles for the Council on Aging that leaves us with three vehicles uh Greg that's correct the two mini buses I guess to call them and then the one van right one of which is electric the other two are regular gasoline powered okay all right just wanted to make sure what the count was okay I have a question just my own interest municip bid do they get they get a percentage of the auction how much how much what are the auction fees and how's that work we typically have have um well we've done both we've done it on our own most of the time but we have used the mun bid process as well um not remembering their their cut um it's usually a percentage right it's a percent of the of the sale and I'm not remembering what that is off yeah I can certainly get that for you yeah it's not important I was just curious you know I'm surprised 100,000 miles is uh is a full life on a vehicle because both of those vehicles are around 100,000 miles but um I guess they're hard miles yeah they're hard miles and they um s sitting out back here hasn't hasn't helped their life the rest is what the rest is the problem yep okay they're 10y old V yeah 14 so it's yeah yeah it's about and it's um it's part of the um replacement cyle that the state provides so they we get um 80% a grant for 80% of the cost of a new van getting the cycle off hands five or six years or something like that so yeah good interesting this a lot of miles for two just basically in town driving is it for the most part yeah for the most part I me they do they do go to doctor appointments so it's still I mean it's it's 20,000 miles a year that the two p i put on plus whatever we have in the other ones too so these things get their use I know there there's a renewed advisory about um the electric ones and the salt water if you're parking it out here that um I guess in uh Florida the storm surge when they come up on there's something about car batteries and salt water yeah something about water salt water anything I don't know not that right IDE is not to put salt water or anything exactly for for the record your name and and address oh Dean the hottest 48 Beach Street thank you it's going to V well for all the electric F po back oh yeah well there all go okay we have not had a vote on the consent agenda we ready yeah okay Jeff yes John yes Kathy yes and says yes yes Brian says yes all right now is um8 650 and the chatter house L feed increase um does anyone like comments on that so again the basic proposal here is to increase the fees both the weekday and the weekend rate by $50 from where they currently are um so that would go to 325 for the weekday and 375 for the weekend the residents and then for non-residents non resid thought we previously had raised it for non-residents and it was staying it's 750 and 850 and as the uh it was mentioned at the uh at the meeting as Cheryl pointed out are down house so I don't know we TR to balance things out or make it up and volume I'm I'm so surprised the the revenues are down by a lot more than it would fear from the number of rentals that must be weekday versus weekend that's the only thing I can think of but more non residents aren't renting it well it's versus eight now in 22 they did have 19 nonresidents yeah did was there any discussion as to why well they coming out of Co I think the big thing was that all of a sudden people are finding other places to go that's what I'm wondering is the I mean there's too much I don't think there's a lot of H not a lot of data to support the spe calculation but that was the first thing that came to mind uh yeah makes sense you can see the drop from 22 to 23 you can attribute a lot of that to non-resident rentals but from 23 to 24 uh you know like an I I I can't see where that that that drop came from anywhere except weekday rentals are up and weekend rentals are down I I don't uh see otherwise we don't do anything to advertise or okay so this is all word of mouth as far as nonresident nonr I mean yeah we're not we're not promoting one way or the other is there a reason why we haven't is it because we usually get enough um you know interest to cover costs of maintaining it or right so usually um usually the weekend are are pretty booked um I mean in the past you know there's been online and people sort of pushing elbows to try to get to the front of the line so they get their first choice that has Wayne we haven't hav been quite the lineup for for getting on that calendar early as there used to be so what what kind of costs are we looking to cover um so our uh I don't have it in in front of me but um you know the tux point in general all cost in is probably you the $50,000 range Greg this this money goes into General revenues there isn't a revolving account or some sort of a Enterprise fund or anything is that correct correct this is general fund Revenue yeah okay fine so it's it's a little harder to assign dollars in and dollars out it's just okay yeah I get I think that's the reason for my question I think so yeah I was I could see where you were going I mentioned somewhere I saw somewhere about you know wanting to cover costs but what are the costs I don't um I don't really see that so this income line that's after cost no straight just straight yeah so it's just you know how much do you associate with the cost of tux to the Chow House versus runda the beach the restrooms you know so that so I'm giving you the Allin expense of of tux Point yeah um but not including every few years when we have to rebuild it correct yeah that's this is Opera not [Music] capital is there particular rush to make this decision tonight um I just was curious is um if we're going to you know if the there's been a decline in Revenue um it makes sense that one thing you look at is increasing the rate um but you may also want to do other things like for example promote it um advertise it that also incurs cost I'm just trying to get a handle on um what the costs are that we're trying to cover is that the right number I'm looking at this and I think that 2021 and 22 which are Co and coming out of Co okay all the other numbers are consistent okay 23 24 pretty much consistent with 16 17 no they're all so as far as Revenue I agree with you as far as I mean I don't know uh as far as promoting it goes uh and I think being an outdoor venue during covid and coming out of it was popular place popular place for the surrounding communities but now they've got other options again maybe it's when you do both and we advertise yeah I guess what I'm trying to understand is um number one is there a sense of urgency on making a decision tonight um you could delay it another couple weeks because I just would like to understand what costs we are trying to cover oper you said said you know not the rebuilding but what are the operational costs that we might be interested in because if you're going to raise it you want to make sure you're you're covering the desired costs and I wouldn't want to do that every year you know I just feel like I need a little more in but so you're think 50 is not enough I don't know because I don't know what the costs are so I I I think the only real cost associated with that would be the pack defendent we don't have one no but they keep there's somewhat up there okay so we don't yeah we're not I mean so there it's been a few years since we've had a person actually checking cars but we do have a person maintaining and cleaning and that sort of thing yeah I would I there's got to be some maintenance on the building I just usually before you set a price you understand what your costs are basic we have presentation of that at your next meeting even even a little memo I mean just probably the uh John do you have something yeah I've I've got a question I'm just looking at the trends here the rentals and that you know they're blanks there from 16 17 18 19 I'm not sure maybe records weren't kept but one thing I would like to know is we have a fixed inventory here and I don't know how many spaces there are to rent versus what's going on we may have reached the ceiling you know I mean if our inventory is X and we're at 90% of x certainly weekend summers are pretty you normally pretty booked yeah right and I I just don't know I mean was it like twice a day um in general morning a morning rental and an afternoon SL know and so so on the on the on the weekends you've got uh what say say say you've got 20 weekends and so that's uh 20 40 That's 80 slots and then you've got the the weekdays I I would like to know something about you know weekend rentals what's going on there and the weekday rentals so that we can see where we are with inventory relative to what's going on we maybe basic utilization of the asset right your asset utilization operational costs to cover that we're trying to cover and and some rationale agree R for the new fees I feel more comfortable with that suggest that we include the um path house oh it's you better Beach it it's essential right to the to the use of the CH house oh youe um well just a suggestion um maybe to solicit feedback from the renters to see what what whether they felt it was worth it the price or or what some of the shortcomings were whether they want um better kitchen facilities or better weather proofing options or something like that just to see get a gauge for you know how to um to see whether the price is reasonable for the demand so we will put this on next meetings at actions and get is that going to be enough time to get the impation yeah that's yeah this one okay okay I think it's I missed the part about the staggered star sorry oh it's yeah we just wanted to get here before you guys did so we all have comfortable so that I can so I can stay with the zoning we're doing the final stuff is that okay welcome you convenient that you have builtin supposed to be using this look yeah so if I could I'll I'll call our finance committee meeting together uh uh tonight uh with uh Kon Tom Parkins de htis and Andy thank you um what are your FY 26 priorities good question we should ask that question well I got there well you were thinking about well I mean I guess there's almost a perennial goal of somehow better getting a hold the handle on uh Capital planning needs uh in forecasting five and 10 year look ahead um we have that now but uh you know somehow it ends up being fractured as we go through it I'd say uh despite you know everybody's best efforts I think um so we've talked a bit about that uh as a big picture item um and then you know generally you know the focus is on U guess the the major budget items um police fire DPW and the school and uh our Focus this year with the the leaon is um actually kind of pairing people up on finance committee uh finance committee to meet with each of those uh entities or at least you know uh yeah so each of those just to so that there's um a little better perspective that we can bring back at a meeting before we're about to meet with those those groups um so big picture I would say that's kind of tactically how we're looking at things what are do you have in the um one to five year rank captain that question no no I I'd say without a list in front of me okay yeah extemporaneously list them out um you know all the favorites uh Central cul uh um I know there's these F I'm reasonably sure relocating the DPW yes yes all that more um continuing to work on pipes y yeah um and you know as well as you know I think resiliency certainly um enters into the conversation um particular in relation to the the police department um and you know I know I don't know we kind of formally had a discussion but I've certainly wondered whether or not the discussion of any sort of w facility ought to you know there might be some Merit in trying to factor in public safety at the same time whether it's a common facility or Shar sight somehow uh I think it's worth looking at those things uh there could be some cost benefit and kind of combining those things rather than having them separate two separate prod projects under climate resiliency too having water treatment yes Waste Water treatment yeah Greg I thought we had funding for much of that resiliency of the W water Tre um so most of the funds are are upgrading equipment out of that upgrade will include elevating electrical equipment and junction boxes that sort of thing um and some I would say shortterm blood proofing but not the not the long-term real flood proofing of the plant um that's probably a $68 million project is a stand on if if you want to keep the plant where it is and basically build a a dyke around it that's going to keep out the [Music] water so I think the shorter term efforts are will be giving under way soon it's still in design phase but it be get getting ready to go out the bid fairly soon this this winter um and you know the hope is that that buys us you know 20 years time and then you know what to do as we get closer to that 20 year mark do you know are we do we decide to try to harden existing plant and put in that major Dyke um or do we think about relocating the plant neither neither option is inexpensive relocating and building new plant is very expensive yeah but nonetheless it's needs to be on the table one of our challenges is and and Andy mentioned this is the capital plan you know it it changes from year to year and you asked about the fiveyear plan and the 10year plan and I actually didn't ask about the 10-year plan I was very careful about that I know you um but you know because things happen you know I mean you've got permitting issues with the state and things just move and I think we find it very difficult to look at a capital plan over any more than a year sometimes because something gets delayed and carried over to the next year and and this is sort of a constant issue and I think we found that the town sweet spot is working at about 3.1 3.2 million in capital A year when you go beyond that you know this too many streets get dug up too much equipment is moving it's just hard so how do you how do you do this three or four million a year and and make it continuous and I think that's one of the things that we as a finance committee have struggled with because it seems like each year we come up to annual meeting and it's like a snapshot okay this is what we're going to do this year but we didn't do this last year and we're hoping to do this next year it's very hard to get sort of a multi-year run on it and I think we're trying to make more of an effort to really look at a fiveyear point and see what see how that affects obviously the tax rate debt now so the real challenge there is with the bigger facilities because those has a they're big big ticket items and B that there's a lot of there's long lead time on those um you know so so what we will be presenting in a couple weeks that um the fiveyear plus major facilities out to 20 I think it's 2045 or 50 um and it it will identify a new DPW garage a new Public Safety facility a new sewer plant and a new school in that 30-year time frame new school or just ESS Essex oh okay and I mean those are like I said those are big ticking items um and so you're looking that substantially new new bonds new bonding to do that um but I'm I'm hoping to show progression that that you need to make a political call as to whether or not that's palatable but um um there's a big hit meaning that's the 6% range of the tax increase um in a couple of years couple three years for the elementary school in6 plus DPW plus P those three [Music] um require a big increase to to bond for those and then and then as things come offline as we retire debt as as new construction as new tax base grows you're able to take on the subsequent projects down the line I think it's worth the discussions that have a sense of uh willingness to recategorize and rep prioritize certain things like DBW certainly been talking about for a while and it's um there's lots of rationale for moving for that project but in the context of all these other Capital ends that you just mentioned they however aged and decrepit it may be they do have facilities and there could be a lesser project that could happen in their current location to to bridge a gap or a less expensive project in a new location we don't have to do traditional brick and mortar the way we've done traditional brick and morar there's lots of new options for facilities that we haven't really looked at in detail yet you could yeah right I mean a garage is a different spec than than an office so there's there's some Merit to having people who run the business at the business so some office is probably I think the DP you can build out office spaceside a steel building exactly building lots of towns carile chelsford have all done fire stations and other things and using very different approaches um it's worthwhile making sure we do that due diligence because everything doesn't have to cost $25 million I'm interested in seeing what you know I like I'm I'm willing to stop thinking about just a municipal center yeah all right uh I thought that's a town hall oh more uh if we put uh you know as you say Public Safety and DPW together on but we got to find a site this uh is the old dump site big enough as you know SilverStar stable you know so but these are things that I think that uh we start thinking in that direction as opposed to no it's biper cating this has to be here has to be there I'm willing to stop thinking about uh maybe makes some sense I also think we got to really push hard on on requirements right because right now it's kind of a wish list and and I haven't seen the evidence of I don't just have we haven't gone down to that level of detail how much space do we need versus what we want versus what we have now usually the first uh request is a lot larger than what we have and you only got a push hard on that and I just don't see evidence that that work has been done yet which is very important's project well often time it'll happen when you when you hire the design or that that true but if you're taking a different approach and doing something more you know prefab or some other building technique you got to get into the requirements even before you pick the the um approach or pick the partner the supplier partner because you may may be a completely different set of people you'd be evaluating uh completely different set of companies you'd be evaluating so you really want to have a good field for especially in a very mobile Department like the DPW yes they're GNA there's going to be some administrative space needed but not nearly as as much as people who are sitting at desks all day long right so um you know it's very different environment what you're doing with a high degree Mobility yeah you could you could pursue it as a design build project with the contract that hires the design firm keep the keep the budget tight that way also I mean you know and I think you're I think the the direction you're talking about the idea that we're not necessarily trying to build something like like haml to buil for their fire right this this is the building that's going to be out of site probably up on the hill and doesn't necessarily demand the same kind of a static I would agree that just going up another 5,000 ft we often times look at Capital lists and and we're not sure what makes good Financial sense what the political Tea Leaves say you know and things move around and I think some guidance from you folks and um our collected best guessing as to okay DPW seage Treatment Plant Road Central Street B what what order should these things fall into because there's the political component there's the financial component there's the construction component there's a scheduling component all these kind of people along but I think it kind of begins with what are the people of the Town willing to sign up for to start with and that's why you all get paid big dollars you know kind of begins there with a you know a wish list and then we could there also there's also the we have a health issue with a p p y and that gives that a big boost yeah yep as it should but I think you know brings up good point you know Greg if you're going to show us something in a couple of weeks right you're saying focused on Capital right it is our role to try and prioritize that okay course pass okay and and then next I I think it's we talked about this before it's really important to finish Capital planning around those big rocks for the for the year before we start having discussions on the pennies after the fact right um so if we do nothing else different this year I'd really like to do that but second you know in the private sector when you're dealing with the kind of huge Capital expenses that we're projecting um the other thing that's done is really looking hard at stopping or slowing down things that are not priorities okay and that's where that operational review Greg I think should help us and I apologize I forgot the timeline on that no Bally between now and you know February Okay so I I think that's a really important input to see to get some outside eyes on what we could should do differently to you want to minimize your operational cost free up money for these big Capital items that to me is what we should be also focusing on um those are difficult discussions but they're often necessary to avoid sticker shock to the residents you know I think some of these things are going to bulldo their way to the front though too this S6 Elementary the msba is involved and that's a go that's going to push a lot of stuff aside we have to also what's the next p pass um so I'm in agreement with the the Essex DPW and the past being the three big drivers but um I'd also like to mention Athletic Field still in there because I think you know Pine Street field didn't really fill the void we were looking to and I think Sweeney Park is still you know something we really need to try to figure out um and then um some interim rather than I know 30-year plans for new um public facilities but in the interim it would be nice if we didn't have to go through a drill every time we had a flood tide with like the police station and the fire station so maybe some interim repair to pre prevent that type of thing I don't know uh if we could put like a wall around the boiler in the fire room so that that doesn't flood out which would be a critical um if we can put lightweight fill for four feet in the town hall lot and raise the the boat ramp you know those with retaining wall at the at the garage some something interim that we're not going through like fire drill every time we get a TI um I'd like FY 26 to look that the SP s yes uh oh Brian is our Le to that sounds so much better when you say Lea I uh they are they are uh looking at right now have some kind of report but uh the question is big thing is is a CH field for natural grass Sweeny for Sweeney and if it's natural grass I believe CP C funds can uh be used towards that uh but then there's also the Dr addition there's a lot of things going on which start I study that now uh and this is going to be Blasphemous I wouldn't I I don't I don't put playing fields in the top of the list right now uh you know we've got to buy this and we're creative but uh there's other things that are more pressing than the the fields in my opinion my humble opinion the senior center is another one that I Senior Center is moving right along and and I think the goal is that much of the senior center will be paid for outside of tax rate correct you to is to do fundraising for the renovation Edition that would be planned for that building so the renovation Furnishing all of it private sector even even a you raise money for an endowment for the operation depending how successful the fundraising can be so bought your checkbooks we we might want to put a firewall between what the private funding is for the senior center versus what it is for Town Hall office space um I don't know if you want to do a fund drive for for that but oh for for moving the councel on yeah yeah some of that we might want to be careful about that so that it's kind of a little detail point this is really more for br Andrea but feel like as we go through all these budget needs meetings and trying to get the revenue onto the same page as the expenses would be very helpful um often times you know things like parks and wreck we've got revenue over here and we've got expenses over here Harbor is another example where Revenue comes in we're sort of always hopping back and forth trying to figure out where the revenue is and and it sounds like a detail but when you get down to looking at lots and lot lot and lots of budgets and you're trying to figure out should we peel a little back on this or should we amplify a little of that knowing what the revenue and the expenses is really helpful to give a really small example parking um meter BS yes um they show up in the police salaries and the revenue that they C bring in shows up someplace completely different and and it's easy to say well we can just save a little bit here by not enforcing our parking laws right I know it's a detail but it it saves a ton of time if we could do that um if if I may add something here I look at all of these projects and most of them have been on the table with varying timelines for a couple of years now and I know that every six months you look at it and say OHP W's in the lead and then 6 months later it looks like defos is where we're going to have to spend money I think that if you model this no matter which project and the school obviously is a factor there you're going to have to borrow money at at maybe a very similar rate regardless of which project seems to be the lead horse in the race from one year to the next I I can appreciate the finance committee saying you know it's a moving Target I'm not saying the gold posts necessarily move but the color of the gold post seems move so um trying to plan for this maybe maybe you look at modeling this several different ways with different projects at you know coming along at different rates and you still wind up in the same place MoneyWise or very close and that's the big challenge yeah one of the things when your jet service starts to increase you want to look at really controlling operating costs I think that's uh a big so that you know we do know that our debt service is going to go up so we really have to be mindful what the are yeah yeah and I think myy said yeah three million bucks is what we spend each year for basic Capital Improvement activities that well for lack of another descriptive term affect our lifestyle because some street is dug up somewhere and um that's probably a number we've been working with that I guess for now I don't know five or six years it's been a while um and it seems that that is going to continue to go unless we need to look to take some of that money to put it to some of the bigger projects but the pipes are like forever pipes lots of Pap yes painting the bridge soon as we're done we got start over yeah yeah it's it's just a fixed it's a fixed fixed cost there in the budget what are the costs to the town of the C project so um so those monies have been appropriated um about 750,000 for a real numbers of six $6 million project so the that that is right now sort of in the cogs moving along yes yes that one's going to happen so that at unknown time we should break ground on that project a year from from now seriously mean that yes yes uh and that money's been appropriated yeah the Town Fund so that's not even on the list anymore right the federal grants or no that's not on the list you got that's well we just my roet list we're getting something accomplished does anyone this I mean you're just starting yeah yeah I so I just I think as a as a maybe process uh this kind of discussion is very helpful I think it would be even would be more helpful even if we keep this level of discussion going um because I don't know the we um it feels like when we have further discussions within you know as part of our finance committee meetings they feel like they're in a bit of a vacuum because they're they're not in the context of priorities that select board might be tracking um so I think it would be good to check in maybe once or twice through the the budgeting process this year I don't know I agree with you completely but yeah well and it could very well be um you know because I know a lot of times one or two of you will sit into our meetings and as long as you can represent what your current priorities are on those items you know that that could do the trick well I think it's important to your point if we're going to be really focusing though on Capital first right when we're done with that we should all there should be a joint meeting on just that okay what did we learn through that process what do we think we want to put forward and ideally we could mature our process enough so that we set operational targets right that we believe will be affordable to the residents um you know we so it's nice to work from the bottom up okay but I wish we could do a little bit more top of a top down look right because if something's going to be a very expensive you know Capital year right maybe we need more than the three million um to Dean's point we we've got to put some pressure on the operational cost and it would be nice to be able to set some targets for the the for Town Hall and say look what would it look like if your operational budget was this okay we we give them a Target and it's it's it's a good way of getting people to think differently about what is really a want versus um a need yeah and and I just would like to see us do a little more setting targets at least so we can get a draft of what it might look like and we might think it's ugly and no we don't like that but we we we don't look at it you know so anyway be my but yeah I just say if you had a timeline and said okay P we're going to try and deal with in the next three years DPW move potentially year two to year four you kind of sequence that out like a form a schedule or strong man schedule then then you can look at it say okay how much Capital do we need and what's the impact on the taxpayer and that's what we'll show you now you start to really say all right here's you can look at it from the point of view of what's the spend rate what's the Staffing needed what's the impact on community you can look at it from different angles but got to start with plan is that the doing this I'm sorry we gon be doing that on the 16th is that that mov yes do we anticipate any breakthroughs on the housing development in the you know I know we've been stockpiling money in the CPC for something to happen as far as um and and and the affordable hous new court or something but it it that might that might come out of nowhere and be a priority you know to Blindside us as well so just watch sorry Greg I just want to clarify this meeting where you're going to be presenting all this Capital these Capital items is that at the October 16th bcon meeting okay so there's nothing planned to be presented at an upcoming select board meeting yeah down the 21st when you need again the 21st okay so first cut at at the um 16th and then he'll be showing us something and very similar 21st I do hope it's more than just similar it makes some good ideas and changes yeah to change it that's why used the word similar but anyways yeah I this has been productive and interesting and valuable um this is there anything further we need to do right now or um can we wait month and a half and come together again yeah I think uh I think a lot of information is going to come out on the 16 we're kind of waiting for that yeah certainly after town meeting special time well the 16th is 16th of October 21st of October but I don't want to are are getting together again will be after this 18th of November um because there's sort of a focus on the town meeting yes of course tends to distract the select board yeah and I think that timing could make a lot of sense I have a strong personal desire to be in the other room so if if we're we're done um thank you very much we will be with between [Music] thank you um read articles so as I not the m to you I the main show is the ndta 3A zoning proposals that are being finalized down the hall we needs here um additionally listed possibilities for some additional articles um first one being storm water regulation we we are under some pressure from EPA to update our storm water regulations we did this I want say two years ago following DP guidelines um those guidelines were were not as U complete in epa's eyes as they should have been in their eyes and so they are asking communities to to revisit revisit them um so like I say we're we're under pressure from EPA to be doing this um they wanted us to do it last spring we we begged for a little more time they said okay do it in the fall so that's why it's intentially before us here okay so that's one uh the second one uh is the potential land conservation deal that Essex County green belt is pursuing you heard um information on that at your last meeting uh the CPC has since approved that project is is recommending it you go before the voters um and again from Green bel's perspective they would much prefer to have that vote before the end of this calendar year and so that's why it potentially is on the docket as well a third uh need um could this this one be put off to the spring probably could we have an unpaid bill from last fiscal year um for some Consulting work that was related to the 40b appeal um some invoicing that that got lost between different folks here uh and so uh because the fiscal year is Clos and because we don't have enough dollars remaining in in the attempt that we had set aside for this um it requires a a special vote and that is a a nine10 majority vote at at town meeting for slightly under $110,000 which would come out of our our fund balance our free cash bance just out of curiosity what happens if the voters did not approve that yeah we're in a bind we can't pay it um and the vendor could sue us and then we go through a process of trying to get that resolved and a question if it's on the special if it's on the regular town meeting in April does it become a budget item for the subsequent budget Year and that doesn't require 9/10 no it would still because it's a previous year obligation it's still apped the 9/10 so it would be basically a supplement to this current Year's budget but requiring that 9/10 vote so basically to approve it or we wind up getting sued yes that's hard yeah we've done that once recently yeah I you know I try to avoid it as you know I I don't like these at all um I just think if we're on top of our Gade we don't have any un paid bills um this literally got stuck in a in a committee members folder and it's uh it didn't come across our desk so U sometimes it happens and this is one of those times luckily it doesn't happen very often for us U we try to avoid it and then whether or not there's any citizen petitions or not we have another oh week or so oh I about it's so 28 days prior 28 days prior yes is the deadline okay any word about is there something yeah I have not heard recently hope there is okay sorry I'm not sure ground you had mentioned earlier um a change to restrict the use of adus as um oh that's right I'm sorry I I didn't mention that we talked about that a little bit at the last time um so yeah so that is the potential for that we would um uh as a as a template I I mentioned gloss's new ordinance which I think um you would find interesting and applicable here as well could you could you send that yeah let me circulate that around to you all I I meant to do that last week and I didn't shortterm rentals is that what you mean short so this is um because of the new Adu law that's going to come into play from February um folks have talked about should we beef up our short-term rental yes ordinance to prevent those adus just becoming short-term rental units and really not helping our housing problem and and and I would put in the caveat that somebody would have to start in February build an Adu and use it as an Airbnb before our April time meeting um you've got a very short window there um you don't have a lot of exposure yeah um but I think we should see what yeah let's take a look at it and you can decide okay um if if we should add it to this to this go um so um you know if we have four or five items besides the main attraction you know I'm assuming the main attraction is you know a couple of hours of debate and discussion uh before a vote is made and then these other ones 90 minutes worth of of additional effort and discussion I would whether we put them first right you might try to get them first get them all the way that would be my recommendation with it um I think it's I think it's doable um you I think someone's going to call the question after two hours so so you know three and a half hour meeting you know even that's even that even if that stretched to four hours that's not reasonable so it seems like we could we can manage this this list so subject to seeing the boster 0 agree that that these are things I we can squeeze get them out the way it'll make the spring meeting shorter too there'll be something new there too but yes and you can always hope [Music] do that entirely okay we we sit we've all read bion's letter and and the questions that we have are not so much about how often we me but whether you yes okay got it okay a few items here um just a follow up you had your discussion with with Kate about the potential of of having them do some um complimentary service aimed at at seniors in particular um you asked me to just reach out to some of our neighboring communities and they all felt that the service was um was doing well in their particular Community they they gave see pretty high marks for the services um that they're receiving um so the process for joining is has been streamlined it's just your decision you can make that vote um but if you want to to reverse it it still requires a town meeting vote so it's a little more complicated to get out than it is to get in um but it is reversible if if that is something that you feel is would be necessary I mean I I'm in favor of moving forward with that I think we me heard everything we wanted to hear and be helpful to our res we don't to use Down Still redirect still still still would like to see how how demand is for uh offering a service later on in the day later on in the day because all of these Services end at three and kada will not change on that but right so we but we can we can yes we can yeah we could adjust our schedule right right yeah Y no I think that's a possibility for sure okay we'll keep working on that um just a quick follow up on on again the lead survey EPA it's a mandate from from them um they they loosened up some of the requirements the other day we got some good news that U some of the penalties don't kick in until 27 I believe it is um how much how many what's the respon response rate they're looking for before we get penalized or well ultimately so if we don't have a response they're going to assume it has L okay so it behooves us to prove as many as possible um ultimately we will we will get that proof when we're doing the meter replacement um but we have a deadline of mid October of giving EPA our initial response mid October next year no this year couple weeks Chuck's heard from like I don't know 200 250 people he's got to hear from like 1,600 so he's way short but as as uh Greg says he's banking on the fact that as we grind through these meters we'll have Hands-On information on everybody we're just not going to get people to respond to this Sur not gonna have that Hands-On information in a week so we're not we're not We're not gonna have it we're not going to have it but things go back and forth is he able to use the date of the building Creation in order right so that's you can use that um so we will have a higher number of of potential um homes with lead and as we so so that number will be established and then as we confirm when we're in the doing the meters that number will drop significantly we have like I say a couple years before we have to start taking action um so it it's it's going to work its way through it's um it's just not as streamlined as efficient as it could so that's where we are they will I think they're putting out a communication to as many folks as they can in the next week or so to try to a few more responses that's where that is um this morning uh Kathy and John were able to doing a on the gym call with a recruiting firm the three of us haven't talked since we had had conversation but I thought it was a good a good conversation with the firm um we certainly U certainly know what they're doing and have established themselves as the lead recruiting firm in in the state at this point they've um they've done about what was it 60% of the recruiting efforts in the last five years and they've established a good database and they know a lot of know a lot of people yeah so I don't know Kathy or John you want to share any more were I can't think of a deficit I mean I think they they know their stuff they're past towned administrators and managers themselves lots of different types of towns that they' worked in personally um so I I the presentation was very very good they they did give us a a proposal at this point in terms of how things would work and uh the proposal was impressive and they did say it'll probably be a challenging uh search for us and for them because it's a very competitive market right now and RG graphy doesn't help us because they look for a radius of say a commuting time of 45 minutes around you and of course half of the distance around us is in the water so we've got that fewer uh towns to geography to pull from so they said it'll be a challenge but uh they certainly seem like they're up up to the task there's no question so I don't know if you want to break that for at the next meeting then yeah I mean I I think they're more than qualified and be happy to work yeah I think I think you would agree if you had a chance to did I send out the proposal to everybody I don't I think so actual proposal yeah yeah let me get let me get the rest of you those that prop I'm sorry I meant I meant to do that yeah and you can you can read it over if you have any questions Sly either ask me or or Kathy and John so that get that moving forward um mentioned some um meetings at the end of this week related to the next round of climate resiliency impact work with Harvard um if one of you had a chance to attend one or both um just let me know um and that'll be this Thursday and Friday at at 11:45 um it's at the U St John's in Gloucester on Middle Street I get I'll get you the address and then lastly uh n on did make it in my Mel but um the celebration for Ron joo's life and contributions to town um aiming for October 25th and they're just trying to get a BL so if you could let me know if you think that worked your schedule that afternoon um next day or so they're just I'm trying to get them ahead [Music] yes excuse or Friday that's all I have for you tonight yeah make a motion to return second this is very efficient joh yes yes thank you very much people do come I got an email he not he wants down again