##VIDEO ID:Cpo9OVaTMt8## the Manchester by the SE select board to order um joh I here here Kathy here too Brian je hey I got all the names right okay yeah it helps more opportunities um the first item on our agenda is public comment on non-agenda items is there any in the room is there any online not seeing okay um the next is the Chairman's report um and I would like to report briefly that um one of our goals from several years ago was to improve Communications and get the select board out into the community and I will commend everyone here except me for doing that in various venues um places where we answer questions places where we just show up um this board has done more to get out into the community than um any that I have been on before and um I salute you for it the next uh on the agenda is the um action items um and are there any uh there's one action item that is on here that's not on our agenda which is the Ocean Street review yeah I was going to ask about that one I we know we got the news that the grant was not we were not selected for the grant but we need to develop next steps so let's move that the next can we discuss that at the next meeting yeah we were U we've asked for some feedback from the agency that we applied funding you should have that prior to your next meeting okay because in L of getting another Grant though we got to do something and figure yeah that out okay um and I would um last last month we had an update on kada and I'd probably put that back on for some time in January okay great first or second sometime in January are there any other items that should or should not be on the I'm sure there thinks it shouldn't be but any suggestions for the um action items okay um then we will go directly to the fire department for an inning ceremony good evening uh thank you for having us in um today we have the opportunity to uh do a badge pinning for a call fir fighter as well as a promotional badge pinning uh for one of our officers uh so first I'd like to introduce Joe San filipo Joe is a call firefighter with us previously uh he came back on board uh he's already a certified firefighter one and two uh and already been active uh with the department since he's uh his return um so we welcome him back we have his wife Julie here who will be doing uh his badge pinning and um Joe uh lives in gler and um he's able to help us out on the tough times the overnight times and the we early in the morning time so uh we want to thank Joe for his um dedication and willingness to come back uh and serve the community so without further Ado do you guys practice this no okay [Music] so don't worry about it I can't see I'm there we go it looks good looks for thank you thank you congratulations thank you thank you you very much congratulations congratulations uh next I'd like to uh bring up now uh being att's Captain uh Bob caver Bob has been uh with the department for many years um promoted to Lieutenant a few years ago went through an assessment center as well as a written examination um little bit about Bob one of the things with the Department is leading by example uh he's by example every day um one of the things is you can train uh to do something right he trains till his crew doesn't get it wrong and that's the type of thing and the dedication that um I expect and he does a wonderful job uh Katie's joining as well as his son Owen and gentle oh no he's just gonna bounce up like bear with me oh you're doing great there you go finally [Music] BK okay the next item on the agenda is the H management plan Task Force update which is in your packets and I is is Sarah going to be here now she told me late she had a we do have buy online questions fore you own CL it don't say how to ask I'm not on duty I'm home um I assume everyone has read um Jeff do you have questions or comments I had a question about interest in implementing recreational shell fishing yeah actually uh Jeff that is part of um the one of the things that's been discussed in and uh the shellfish Warden Jim Elder is on this committee so it is uh important and definitely part of this process I'm surprised it's not listed here okay um is that something that they're going to move forward with or is this just so yeah so it's it's in the uh documentation for the for the management plan the process actually started a number of years ago it takes years and years to get marine fisheries to open up Clos shellfish Beds which has everything to do with the outfall in Salem and our own um they were closed because they weren't well they weren't as good as they are today um so that process will keep moving forward it's in this plan just because uh it's important that uh we keep that in front of everybody with with the harbor as as we're moving forward so definitely yes we are working towards reopening shellfish beds that's I mean it's great thank you yeah y I agree I have a question yes um so in terms of the um the topic areas I thought it was very comprehensive um and covered a lot of ground what I'd be looking for in the next draft and I didn't really see it mentioned is prioritization you know whenever I see a list of more than five things um that usually screams that uh you know you need some priori because all of these topic areas are not of equal importance so is the um committee looking towards that um survey to help with that prioritization or um is there some other means that they expect to use to to prioritize these areas right so the survey and then the um uh public session that was held last winter uh will be used to uh identify the things that are most important to the residents here in town uh the priority will come from from this feedback yes so will it be can we expect to see that in the next draft I guess so the uh draft plan will be shared with the task force in early to mid January and for review and and then uh the public draft will come out in likely in April and there will be uh public feedback again we'll probably have another breakout session and um folks will get to weigh in and I'm sure some things will move up and down as far as priority goes at that point but it it will be driven by the public in their feedback go ahead no at this point I uh look like what we wanted to touch on now we'll just wait for the the next we find it yeah just uh one observation or or question by on uh is probably covered in these bullets one way or another but i' I'd like to have some specific comment with regard to the Reed masomo Harbor expansion because that's been an area that folks had probably i' I've heard some some talk about that and I'm sure it will get addressed somewhere here but I think it warrants a separate bullet yep absolutely let me make a note to bring that up and I know that's a moving Target where it stands now versus spring but task force will do the best it can yes it will yep thank you for that I've got that noted um what um I'm I'm curious about potential sites for a second vote R so that will be dropping off uh the list we had a discussion with um Christine player our engineer of record for just about all the good things that have happened and she came out and looked at the site met with members of the yach club MSA uh Harbor department and the site that was identified potentially as uh the place for this is not suitable so it's back to the drawing board curiosity what what what was it over if you were to go over to the Chow House the left of the Chow House Down Over the bank there where folks go with their dogs and throw sticks in the water the bank's pretty badly degraded right there uh and that was identified as a site that could be converted to a ramp do some mitigation of the uh uh Waterfront around it but it's just too [Music] steep thank you I is the current ramp um over overused no this this this one was targeted more towards uh sailing dingies smaller sailing vessels um that could potentially be part of the yach club or Community sailing program to promote and expand sailing and competition in Manchester which unfortunately we don't we don't have enough of this would have accommodated hand dollied uh sailboats or you know maybe even something with a golf cart type of launching not accommodating the type of vessels that are launched behind Town Hall um I was surprised to see a community voting program I thought we had one well there's some discussion about uh MSA uh doing more this really this is in here just to try to promote it what we have isn't really a community sailing program um it is a sailing school and I think it's moving towards the community sailing program the go they do [Music] adult okay anyone else okay that's I think we have what we were looking for um I would be interested in seeing the draft before um we come up with a a final form but that's just because I'm nosy oh no yeah I'm just as nosy sir no absolutely so the the committee will get the draft in uh right after the first of the year and then uh try to clean it up a little bit and then provide the draft again in April if you wanted to see it before the public I I strongly suspect that you can be accommodated all of these are public documents I believe so you know yeah there's there's no point in okay fine so we will add that to our actually actions for February something okay our next um item is the um boat launch update and I've got detailed um information and Greg sent out an overview which suggested that it made a profit by $5,000 yes yes um does anyone get I can answer your questions or should I give a give a summary of the Season okay what you give us su su fan go ahead sure okay uh and I actually updated it a little bit today uh the numbers are little bit different what you have in front of you we we did manage to generate some Revenue this weekend with the uh Carnival in town nothing Friday or Saturday but we did bring in $349 on Sunday uh approximately what's 80 uh signed up for the full time service which was great uh we brought in 800 and uh as of yesterday $850 in the per ride the $10 per person each way and the harbor tours is right around $4,600 so far remember that uh we're fiscal our our year won't end until June 30th so I wouldn't be surprised to see the numbers go up for the fiscal year unless we want to run this calendar whatever whatever your pleasure I shouldn't answer so quickly but I think having something that's financial and on our financial calendar is going to get to be a mess yeah yeah fiscal year is good so uh one of the things on here I'm sure you noticed uh our $18 an hour rate is competitive with Gloucester only everyone else around is paying 25 I'm going to recommend an increase to 23 for next year and I did put a breakout of Staff cost projections by hours per month for you at the $23 an hour right now as of right now we've spent uh 12,270 to staff the launch and we have a balance of just under 18,500 I I suspect you also saw that we did have a mechanical on the small launch with a brand new transmission two-year-old transmission so we did have to have uh that replaced this year John do you have any yeah I I I just had a question when I was looking at uh so this year it's around 5,000 I'm not quite figuring out how the math works here I think I'd appreciate it if you could kind of put the numbers together budget versus actual on some lines because uh to try and figure out where you are we kind of had to move around this the numbers are all there but they're not lined up and it's a little bit of a challenge but um hopefully in the future you can put it together more more along the lines of regular financials um a question on your your 26 staff cost projections which are significantly higher and significantly higher than the 25% or so increase that in in in your assumption in going from 18 to 23 is there a reason behind find that increase was the Staffing this year insufficient and it should have been higher or what's the thinking behind that well if if you uh go back into the document I I do talk about the challenges with the Staffing they share we got an extremely late start I couldn't uh advertise for Staffing uh I will say that the majority of the people that I was interested in and uh got jobs at yacht clubs and here and in Beverly and in Marblehead and then our $18 an hour rate I did lose somebody partway through the season to more money so and we did not have launch drivers for every shift all summer long but as as I said back when we were talking about bringing this on board uh the slow days I was able to fill in with Harbor Masters who are already on duty so the launch was staffed every shift but we we certainly didn't have enough just launch drivers it sounds like you didn't have a lot of non launch drivers I mean the projections are double what they were and I understand that the increase of 30% or whatever is part of that but the other 70% you're saying that was covered by you or somebody else because you didn't have people so I had $30,000 for Staffing for this year out of the 41 that's approximately what I estimated I needed uh I'm projecting for next year uh right around 50 uh okay I think I'm sorry 39 I apologize staff cost 40 so 40,000 40,000 so that's a $10,000 increase over this year made up of the $5 per hour difference that I'm recommending that we're going to have to go to in order to staff the launch so you had a budget of 30,000 this year and you came in at 12 well 12 so far well okay 12 so far he's May June and July or May May and June right I've got two more months to go here yeah that's correct that's correct you have you have more to go and I'll be able to advertise and hire people uh at the appropriate time this coming year so I expect to have a broader pool of candidates well the number is very conservative May and June May's you know little slow June I mean certainly together they're certainly equal to a summer month and maybe a little bit more but um being conservative I understand uh just okay my question is um the budget won't be uh established until after town meeting which is mid April is that time enough to hire it it is um we we couldn't even secure the money and uh for I I had the 40,000 um I'm I'm going to go with the assumption that the launch will operate again this coming year so I'll hire I'm I'm going to tell everyone the rate this past season was 8 an hour I'm hoping that we go to 23 that's the expectation and uh if people want to take that chance which I suspect many of them will uh we'll we'll have people who as of July 1 will go from the 18 to the increase whatever it is be a little bit of a a flyer on their part but any other questions on this so I agree with John I think it would be helpful to go back to the original Financial chart we used with fincom right marry these numbers with that explain what's in a fiscal year versus a calendar you know what's in season just because it's hard to make some sense out of it but um I just want to make sure that whatever we do for next season we consistent with the commitment we made to the town which is there's got to be so many people who sign up for the service or it doesn't run right so if we're talking about increasing some of the costs we've got to figure out what is that minimum number of customers that we need and do you need to adjust the price so that you can you can do that because it seems like we came dangerous ly close to um barely covering the costs without the harbor tours the harbor tours were like 3,000 whatever so far we made a profit of 5,000 okay so is the harbor tours 3,000 of that um because that that means we just got to be real careful with setting the price for next year making sure we have the right number of minimum signups so that we're covering the cost with the stable dollars and whatever we get for Harbor Toys is gravy so the budget you gave me for this year was 41,000 I showed that uh we brought in 46,000 approximately in our prepaid customers so $5,000 46 was just the prepaid correct and then another nearly 5,000 in Arbor so that's that's 10,000 over the budget that I was given for this year and and so far we still have uh $188,000 in payroll un spent so got it um that that 30,000 that was um allocated for salaries doesn't include the $10,000 for insurance right the insurance I'm including the insurance in my thought process so all right yep so that leaves us 20,000 to the good um is there anything we can do to help you prepare um to put your case in front of the finin C no I I'm I feel uh comfortable with this guidance tonight that uh I'll have all the numbers put together in a an acceptable banner and uh certainly if I am uncomfortable or feel like I'm I'm not there I I won't be shy about reaching out anything else on on the lunch um I think we're looking for a motion on ready I move that the select board Grant approval for the boat launch service to be included in the fiscal year 2026 budget second back yes Jeff says yes Brian yes Kathy yes says yes says yes okay thank you very much Bion for both your thanks everybody thank you have a speedy rest of your evening we' only got lot of something 73 pages left to go good luck okay the next item guys can fly through there h F through your stuff yes okay um very nice very complete present I it's complete very nice presentation um do you want to give us a short summary of what you think the high points are uh yeah sure so uh obviously here here we are again the next the the quarter is passed it seems like it was yesterday I was um accreditation was the highlight of the uh of the last three months we managed to basically uh finalize all our files finalize all our policies did all the updates changed over to the new sixth edition standards and as you can see we were U compliant with 273 out of 274 standards I mean one of the things uh that we got held up on was uh our training for our parking enforcement people for uh bias-based policing and emotionally disturbed uh dealing with emotionally disturbed people uh something we should have been doing all along I don't know how it got through the last re accreditation uh but we've made a significant change there and uh we've already done the training with the three people that we've had uh on board this year so that was one thing um as you can see uh community policing was a a huge thing we we' we've done a lot of Outreach working with Jake in the fire department in regards to after school uh uh back to school slush event one of the highlights was a Manchester essic uh police and fire softball game against the Essex police in fire softball game and we're happy to report that we uh handily beat them I won't I I won't release the score but we but we did but a great team building exercise and uh we're looking forward to doing it again next year I I I was approached by the Manchester Essex Little League at the carnival they want to help us promote it next year maybe to raise some money for our Scholarships in the seaside fin that's great only one injury we had one injury one of our retirees broke his on but he did it but's he's doing fine and um Emergency Management was the one of the things that I've worked on quite a bit in the last uh uh three months I participated with Town Green in an emergency preparedness event uh over at Legion in an online Zoom meeting that Greg was on on on with just basically teaching people how to prepare their homes and and and have their effects ready in the case of a a major hurricane uh one of the things that we meaning we had to cancel uh because I was a little bit under the weather uh we're going to do a Breeze Management plan working with Chuck and uh Mima because in the in the event we have that major hurricane all that stuff that will wash in uh you know from the harbor was has those ways and we have to have a plan on how to deal so those are the basically the three things that we I've been working on the last three months thank you yeah no I I I I've read your report and I commend you on all of the community uh policing initiatives also the accreditation and those two topics were with the major ones but the community rep uh policing efforts just one paragraph after another you're really reaching out so that so that your your police force really be they become familiar faces with as many folks in town as possible and I commend you for all of those efforts um you reviewed the high points but that's because they weren't any low points yeah I thought that was good I did have a question on the parking enforcement grid those numbers are a little confusing yeah I didn't get the the whole numbers uh but Beach Street but those are numbers those are the so 23 through or 2018 through 2023 are the total numbers for Beach Street like all of Beach Street just just carving out just where the where the where the where the posts are or all of Beach Street all of Beach Street so 2024 is where the posts were so from from the tracks to T and I noticed a typo up top that's it was 215 violations but I put 210 in the narrative but oh okay so that's to date that was to the date of this October 1st and Counting and yeah so we will probably have more uh because we ran it through October 15th or whatever so it's it's ended now you're not sending them out maybe it's still measuring or whatever no but I have met with uh The Parking Solutions people and we have the cement pads put in in the other areas like we talked about in front of the uh post office in front of the not the the uh fire hydrants out out here and our beach and they're looking to uh expand maybe next season because they thought it went very well I was going to ask uh so uh I have a meeting coming up with them uh the next couple of weeks so there'll be more to follow on that I'll probably be back in front of you to tell you where we would where we where we would like to expand um it's definitely the areas that we already have the cement pads uh possibly put in but then uh an area of Summer Street going up electric light hill past the uh um National Grid building is another possible spot that we will put the Saks in what what is the seasonal period of enforcement for those so we usually run May 15th through we well in the past when we have the staff we run May 15th through through Columbus okay and that so that would be more or less what would be expected okay good I have a question this is both CH and you uh we going do those things in the winter it's really as far as plowing the sidewalks uh we're looking at they're going to remain and then replace them when they're get knocked over I asked them I asked them that question and they're going to leave them for now and if it turns into initia then they they'll come out remove and put it back in the while we're on that subject a similar question um when John asked about the timing the signs that we have around parking enforc gives one the impression we're enforcing the parking 365 days a year and we're really not so I just wanted to throw out there in Rockport if you go to downtown Rockport the signs actually say the month when the parking is enforced and people have to use the they have a kiosk so you have to use kiosk but it it's clear when parking is being enforced and not so just I think that would have to be a change to the bylaw by the board well I'm asking are we so now that when you introduce technology right sometimes the processes or procedures have to change so the sticks are going to be out there are they going to continue to and are we going to continue to use them if not then we might want to let people know you know might want to have the sign reflect reality so I just I'm not promoting one way or another you enforce at 365 or you tell people you're not enforcing at 365 um one way or another I think we've got parking on our list of things to talk about sometime yeah in the future this gets a little tricky because if we say we're not enforcing it our people going to just park there well that's it fors but if you have the sticks there then you have to enforce it and if there's one person parking for longer than two hours and all of the spaces are empty now it's getting enforced and then you might hear other types of complaints so I I just when you introduce techn it's it's not the same as doing it manually as all so I did ask John Johnson to change the signs the that now it says electronically being I saw that that was great yeah so I did ask him now to change the signs back to the original 86 okay okay El there you go um regarding sorry John were you done I'm sorry yeah I'm I'm I'm pretty much done but that's that that's a fair point I needed a it's affected me personally on what want to yes in a fairly short period of time I so so they were they I just look in the mailbox on a weekly basis question couple questions for you again great report um you mentioned the chiefs of police conference I noticed them in the seport district when I was driving through there last week were you able to attend that attended Saturday night yeah anything any takeaways that you care Share no so one take one thing that we were looking at is so uh IMC that we went to with uh Regional dispatches potentially going away so uh one of the things that Chris ryy from Regional asked if we looked around with for the police side of things looked around and see what other uh Records Management systems that we could potentially use uh uh eventually that's what only the real thing that I was focused on on on that uh next year it's in um it's in Boulder Colorado so uh I'll probably attend the entire conference then but it's uh it's difficult to manage being home and when it's right down the street so I didn't attend it uh regular like I did last year just that one day um and just one other question um I'm glad Daisy was a big hit this year yeah she was um just out of curiosity because we've had some great fundraisers here in Manchester she does service essic school children as well do they ever have a fundraiser to help with her care they haven't as of yet yeah so maybe put a mention in there that they too we had the fundraiser here at the at the beach I saw that yeah that's I think it was just over I think if we had better weather we would have done a lot better A lot better we made over like $500 for that for that one day rainy weather that was awesome still still good the rainy cold day um but I think Andrew is going to work with the two students that brought this forward and try something with them move forward and we also working with Tiffany on a uh on a business uh promotion where they can donate for a month and then the dog will we the their business soig Banner jacket or something that's so that that'll be rolling out very shortly cute okay okay I'm trying to think of our sign ordinance and how how that appes moving yeah and should be traveling so you have a school resource vehicle yeah we so uh we did not trade in the the vehicle that we were supposed to trade in this year because they were only going to give us $2,500 and then we got a discounted dog cage for it uh from another the community and we were able to with the money allocated for the the the new car this year we were able to cut some money out of the new car for upfitting and lights and as you can see it's black with the ghost lettering so that saved us $1,000 there rather than have it black and white so we were able to use that entire uh budgeted funds budgeted to upfit her car and we save the other one that's going to be that's uh that's solely dedicated to the the dog so oh the dog the dog I'm just thinking that selling advertising on that vehicle oh well no you see I mean I think that the gl's uh sro's vehicle is all advertised up but that vehicle was donated too so manchest just questions for the I just have a comments a lot of good work here and uh thank you to you and your uh everyone who put this together it's great I was I was glad to see all the stuff at the school and the dog and working with the kids and yeah I think that's really important so that's great yeah it's worked out really well yeah a lot of positive feedback as I put in the memo from the Middle School principal yeah that's great was the dog uh tasting the pies as well she was there she tried was she tried to get on the table any oh no is there anyone online who has okay great thank you thank you thanks Chief about good evening the hot seat continues uh so I apologize I didn't send a report for the quarter but uh with the monthly reports I think uh we have a good overview I'll hit on a few items um one is I can't thank Todd and the staff uh the softball tournament just that's just one um part of the cesion that's going on between between police and fire uh between training out in the street on calls um it's pretty impressive um to see where we're at um Staffing updates um we have six call Firefighters who are fully staffed on that end uh fully staffed on the full-time end and I think our overtime reflects that we're right on budget and um being fully staffed allows us to U do that without any of the huge spikes uh historically that we've seen uh vehicle wise the new ladder truck is working out awesome um it's really exceeding our expectations uh you might see the guys out in it all the time because they're out training and doing different things on a daily basis um engine one is currently has a coolant leak so we're in the process uh We've replaced some lines but it's still leaking they don't know where so we're working on that and then we're also still borrowing the LI field engine which is working know great for us uh the their stations won't be ready for another year or so so we got another year hopefully we can hold on to it um one of the things that uh I had mentioned I talked to Greg and I brought it up with the finance committee uh we've been working our dealer that we got the lot of truck through is also the same deal that we ordered the ambulance through last year um so trying to think creatively uh we have an engine that's do for engine one in FY 28 um so looking at the pricing on the engines and kind of forecasting they have a new uh uh um environmental ruling on diesel engines it's going to add another $100,000 to the cost of the motor not just the truck um so working with a dealer uh we've come up with an idea to spec a demo truck for us they're going to buy it or spec it on on their own um that would be available to us in FY 28 for current day money um so I'm working on trying to get some of the specifics on that but it's a little creative way to try to um okay so we get a two-year old truck no it'll be it'll it takes two and a half years to build we just don't have to pay for it to actually get it where normally you have to pay for a truck for two years before you even get to see it um so it's just trying to lay you know move the basket a little bit if you will uh our software is working awesome like uh Todd mentioned the uh reasonal dispatch is looking at new software for the dispatch as well as the police um 90% of the fire departments are using something called first do not IMC uh so they're going to try to um get the regional to use that software uh so we'll start absorbing those costs um once they do a transition or switch over so that's working out well new websites up and running operation we've had some great feedback from uh residents our community connect where residents can log in and give us information uh skyrocketed with the amount of people that have logged into the website clicked on that link and and added some uh resources to it one of the things I'll be uh putting forward to in the future is some rate increases on permits and fees uh just we haven't really increased our permitting uh on the prevention side in a while some is handcuffed by Mass General law but there are some other areas that we can increase as well as well as maybe potentially looking at uh burning permit charges singing Beach Char um bonfires I should say cooking fires um that um typically we were given out for free I think that maybe we could get a few bucks for those um potentially training all the members attended the manufacturer lot of truck training as well as rope rescue training last month and then this month we'll be doing extrication training um as well other than that equipment the grants have been going really well um thanks to Chief this Gerald we got an emergency management Grant to outfit the UTV with lights and a radio and then we're also looking at an equipment Grant to put a little uh patient transport um it's called the skid unit goes in the back of it so you can put a patient back there or a forest fire pump uh the vehicle's been used four times as of last week we had to take somebody else out of the wood so U that played a major role blasting is 90% done so we have one more little area in the 128 belt but they have to wait for the state um doot to approve uh that and that's probably going to be in the January February time frame I don't have a um exact position or exact deadline for that one do you know how many days of blasting that's believe they said about a week week week and a half don't uh quote me on that because that's going to change they're doing it based upon once they start in that area have a better idea than just doing it face Bund what they've seen the rock so far kind of forecasting it out towards what they expect to see in that little area so good will actually be closed they'll do a rolling Block so what they'll do is a state police officer will start slowing traffic at 133 right before they blast and then they'll let them roll so it's not shut down that's slow it's just slow yeah got you y um that's put it does blasting debr hurt less if you're going slower it's all the air on the side of caution so yeah John yeah no I I I I did read your report which was was it two weeks ago or something and and I looked at that um you know just just just like the policing end of things you guys are reaching out and have got a lot of things that are out in the public uh it's Community rep policing I can't say community firefighting necessarily is the right term I mean we've been doing but maybe there's something along yes we're doing we'll be in the schools we've talked to all the uh uh principles will be in the schools a couple times for each grade kindergarten through third and then we'll be the Council on Aging um helping them with the community connect and doing some we've seen increase in cooking fires so doing some cooking fire winners maybe the community centers in Newport Park in the BL so Outreach John out all right that's good which is a broad turn but that that fits the chil cook off was a great success I didn't get the results on that callif fire i w by just like we didn't men the sball SC all right me for asking so uh a question in your first section here on your report you look at it and say I guess it's maybe coincidental all the vehicles have problems y now is that a is that symptomatic just because of age or something I mean I understand the ladder had to go back to punch you know it's just new and a few things yeah but the engine which I know is old yeah that's 2011 I believe so typically should be front lined you should get about 20 years 25 years out of an engine it should be a primary response vehicle for the first 10 and then go to the back up so it's it was Primary Response vehicle for since 2011 since we got I mean I didn't look at historical ones sometimes when I'm looking at this the status report is just in terms of vehicles on order there aren't any problems yeah it's just these just started September happened to be a tough month exactly okay started creeping out fine when I just saw that I I had to ask the question because you're juggling a lot of vehicles yeah okay thanks yeah um again thank you for the community outreach um I like the the postings on the website you know and on the social media when you're just doing even the training or responding to an incident it gives the residents an an understanding of what you do every day because hopefully they don't have to call you to come to their house and meet you that way so um I think that's all great um I like the idea of trying to take a look at the the revenue portion of your responsibilities we probably haven't looked at that at all um so that would be good I had a question for you regarding um uh multif family housing so um it just came up discussion with my neighbors because we live in multi family housing but you know if we go forward with the 3A zoning changes or whatever and we start to see more multif family housing is there anything that we should be thinking and you don't have to answer me right now right but is there anything we should be thinking about in terms of you know fire prevention or safety um tweaking our bylaws or anything just I think it's good to look at that yeah um if you haven't already because we you know we haven't looked at a lot of things in a lot of years and you're you're chipping away at it which is great um that's just another thing maybe yeah get back I know a bunch of communities have looked at different um variations of residential sprinkler codes once you hit a certain amount of units and automatically triggers by state law anyway how many units is that no okay get get back uh so there's different different communities have tackled that different ways that would be one thing that we could look at depending on the density and things like that yeah for like any new construction or um you know I think that would be something we should at least think about oh I think that uh Chief Clary actually brought them up a couple years he was talking about retrofitting what we have versus um um or at some point but also for new construction and I'm just on it was on the radar it was on the radar and I just you know if we do approve any zoning changes we probably want to get in fun of that thank you very much and the chili was great my daughter my granddaughter daughter and I we all three voted for different people so we have different tastes in my family but it was a great time long as there was no cinnamon in it uh no this is not the same fight Happ from two years ago right and uh I think the people of Manchester want more deserve more and you're getting more and that to both Chiefs thank you very much yeah I mean honestly it's not me the staff is the ones that that are boots on the ground and they're interacting with the public on a daily basis so my hats off Yeah thead by example starts at the Topo really have much to say just thank you and your department for all your hard work um everything looks good actually one thing I did have a question about under the work time scheduling yeah says acting out a grade 105 hours that's people doing jobs above their yeah so let's say a lieutenant is out on vacation uh the senior firefighter or an acting Lieutenant will move up in their spot and compensated for those hours those hours so it's not overtime hours it's Plus whatever that whatever that cre okay thank you for your monthly reports they're very informative thank you for getting involved in softball and well I to leave for the woods bre so well um the the whole can't the whole atmosphere in town has much much improved but the certainly the relationship between our Public Safety yeah I mean it's it's it's work with Bion and Todd and DPW I think all the Departments really um you know Foster one another and it's pretty cool to see and and there's lots of Outreach to to bring the public in which is very nice thank you the um next item on our agenda is the stronger house rental fee increase did everyone see the message from Jack Burke who thinks it should be much higher oh no I didn't see that see that right just it may have been just to you and me and I didn't anyway um Jack is from the community preservation committee point of view he thinks that the the community preservation committee is putting a lot of money into maintaining those facilities and he thinks that we could increase further increase um the rental fees um I did check with the yacht club and the yacht club charges $200 an hour Monday through Thursday with an hour an hour um with no time limit and $300 an hour with a minimum five hour Friday Saturday and Sunday where going I can't see I have to figure out what how that compares with because I don't know how many hours each of the Charter House things four or five hour morning after or evening to four so would be $1,500 from the O club for a Friday 5 Hour what are they providing anything oh they're probably providing there C almost c i i don't they can provide a bartender additionally to in addition to that c yeah okay um they they would certainly have somebody there from the staff to watch out for the tips questions yeah I mean do they clean up and all that oh yeah yeah I'm not suggesting that that that that we need increase these rades further than Cheryl has asked for but I think in comparison with at least one local group I mean it's a beautiful venue um this is quite modest Fe but it is you know it's out in Risk associated with that as well so I had one question or observation here I I get the impression that the weekends are all sold out certainly during the summer months yes okay and and looking at this in the map it seems like they're all sold out the residents because the difference between When we dropped on the on the outside people we dropped 10 folks a couple of years ago and the differential is $400 which makes that 4,000 bucks and that's pretty close to what the difference was in the money drop so I'm just wondering if that's because we give residents what like a one we running start or something I don't know they do they jump on all of it and so the outside guys they don't have a chance to spend more money because there's nothing to spend it on certainly during the weekends yes yeah yeah during the weekends and I I think that's what this so we've got we've got this limited inventory and it's a great marketing exercise to say you know it's the point of uh resistance here but uh Cheryl I think is assessed it correctly and she says no we're not doing anything about the out of out of town residents we're just saying in town is going up let want to make sure we're feir to the residents too I mean well they have a first shot at it and they should yeah there still best deal in town it's the best deal it but you know I would ask Cheryl and say do all of the residents get the Saturday Sunday in other words by the time that week goes by there's nothing left for out of town the line there might be a hand sh's on the on the line she oh you wanted to tr I don't know if you know that answer Cheryl you're muted like this down how do we mute sh um is there really any more explanation that we need I I I am with Jeff on this this is this town property you know lots of it comes out of the CPA which is funded by the town yeah I mean I think I mean I'm not you know I don't want to give it away but I think you know it's kind of a don't don't want to price it so only the top tier of man right exactly I think this is uh for those who don't have membership to the yach club or access to the yach club who still want some of the same uh amen amenities you know you get you're not gonna go to singing Beach Club you're not going into uh BNT this is this is the common man's private club yep and I think that it's got to and for that reason I think we got to keep you know keep it affordable I mean might as long as we're covering maybe a little bit C on the cost and a little yeah um Cheryl's email here indicated it would a modest increase would help cover costs are we covering our costs I think that was my question the last time we are we are right okay sure's got her sound working all right don't be blaming that on me you guys had me muted um so I think John's question was about um the early uh reservations done by uh residents so the residents start in October they start actually this Thursday and that usually does take care of a lot of The Saturdays not so much the Sundays and a couple of Fridays but but and then non-residents can start in January so it kind of does cut down just by the schedule it does cut down on a lot of the big weddings too um but the big weddings are a lot of wear and tear too so that's kind of why we end up with just a few of those a year which is fine um but I think it's always been kind of a a balance is what we're looking for with the Chow House um I think like Brian said the poor man's uh yach club which I appreciate um so I do you know I the way I've always understood it is that's kind of how we as a town want it to be but you know something changes you let me know I feel like a $50 increase for residents is modest and most people won't even notice um but I think if we go up too much we're just you know it's it's just not a community building anymore so it's just which you know which way do we want it to be okay I was looking when my daughter got married she looking at how much money to get a nice venue and so in said save the money nice venue it's not going to cost us you know $100,000 all right and I'm a big fan of it haven't had a lot of success with the weddings that is part of I've been to three weddings there in all three we' ended in divorce you're not don't invite me to any wedding do I need to add another column to my spreadsheet successful weddings those are extra I think Brian's gonna have a column of his own okay is there um any more discussion or should we get a motion that the board approved the increase to the residential rates for renting of the Chad house as recommended by The Parks and Recreation committee second John yes an say yes Kathy yes Brian yes Jeff yes okay thank you very much Cheryl [Music] okay the next um item on the agenda is um the special town meeting articles and is um Alan Wilson he is he's he is with us I'm here good GRE would you like to so we've had some discussions for the last couple meetings about the Articles besides the sort of Main Attraction which is the 3A zoning um so in addition to that um we do have a vote from the gy preservation committee seeking voter approval for the U contribution towards the dormandy property conservation effort um roughly 330 acres in total part of that is in Manchester um asking the town to approve 250,000 from CPC funds um to go towards that effort a $3 million project um we'd be contributing 250,000 so I think in the past you've indicated that you'd be willing to put that on on the warrant um so that that is one item um a second item we've talked about the need for us to upgrade our storm water management uh regulations bylaw and regulations um this is through what called the ms4 program um 4S is there but anyways chck could probably tell her those fors stand for because I'm not remembering off the top of my head um but anyways the our current regulations uh they were modeled after the state D template um EPA has um desire some upgrades to that and is seeking upgrades for the all communities to their storm water management um we've been working uh with Town Council on an alternative approach so instead of you know doing a we've got 20 some pages of a storm water bylaw there now um and trying to revamp another you know 23 Pages worth of bylaw um we're looking looking at having a much shorter and simpler bylaw that basically authorizes the DPW to promulgate regulations that are in compliance with EPA standards and guidelines um so that would be a much shorter bylaw it's about three and a half pages um that would that would replace our existing bylaw um and I think makes for a simpler process and certainly makes it easier to update uh those regulations if and when new um state and federal guidelines are are are developed um so we're uh we received a a bylaw language from Town Council today um Czech was going to run that by Folks at EPA to make sure they were comfortable with it um I think we're optimistic that they will be um and so I think this might be a good a good way to proceed um and as I say simplifies the process um Still Still accomplishes the same goal in terms of having those rules and DRS in place but makes it easier to to modify as we go forward we had done it three years ago two years ago when we updated the bylaw then all we'd have to do is go to the selectboard meeting to update the rules and regulations we'd have to read the 23 Pages well yeah that anyway yeah excuse me Madam chair I I made one suggestion to Town Council for an addition to that draft bylaw I'll pass it on to Chuck um if he's going to be the one to refer it to EPA but basically my suggestion was we incorporate into the bylaw the December 1 2024 deadline that EPA has imposed on us for PR regulations good sir a little exclamation point on that and I think we'll make EPA happy to see that deadline in there first question is are there any projects in town now or foreseen that would come under this storm water between now and April well you know had it been in place you know prior like CST would have fallen under this it wouldn't circumvent their need for special permit or anything but it would very make it very clear that this was required because it's the the main catch is over an area acre of disturbed area so you know that doesn't that's not impossible and then there's other guidelines within that um that would trigger the full um bylaw [Music] okay right I thought that H okay so so the special permit from the planing board for CST would had to follow these full regulations whereas at the moment it doesn't okay got it and there are certainly you know storm water standards in the special permit and you know other places in the zoning but this is you know in some weird event where it doesn't trigger you know some sort of ccom review or some sort of planning Board review we have to have this on the books um it's municipals sanitary sewer separate sanitary SE are is the ms4 so sanary or storm water it's they the ms4 acronym is sanitary uh or storm sewer so it's okay it's it's different from a sanitary store correct okay got it so they grandfathered under our current guidelines when these these in other words they're meeting our current guidelines which will change based upon this thing but they they don't necessarily because they started before that fine yeah we're not we're not retroactively yes that's what I okay I mean is do we know of any other projects coming up that would yeah but SLV is not but but itn't I mean if it's what I'm trying to find out is why we absolutely positively have to bring this up at this town why now because the EPA deadline that they've imposed that's that's the short answer I'm not sure that I'm sorry I'm I'm trying to read into the mentality of the town meeting um I mean we we had the option again at Springtown meeting but we weren't you know certainly not ready at that point so we put it off it is you think this is going to be the I think there may be people at the town meeting who are unhappy that the state is forcing things on us that we don't want and they may not be happy that the EPA is forcing things on us that we don't want and they may not have heard of this at all and totally surprised and that will make them unhappy as well yes gonna have me to that a if you want to look at our EPA permit for the Nifty permanent for the ra water it's even more ridiculous but Authority in terms of impacts I think people would be very comfortable with what this is propagating and what it's trying to accomplish terms of if they understood it understood I think they they've approved an existing storm water bylaw that is is pretty close to what is being asked for in terms of refinements um so I I think it can be sold as as a as a as an upgrade yeah just a presented as an updated an amendment to what we currently have it's not what we are actually I think suggesting is that the town meeting lose control over this that it that that the regulations be promulgated by the DPW and approved by the select board rather than presented to town meeting well can we do with that well so this goes back to the discussion about where I wanted to present a 23-page document to the to the voters at town meeting versus a three-page document that's and there was some thinking that a three- pager would would be easier to digest um having said that what I just said still holds that even though it's a new set of 23 Pages it's not a c change in terms of what's being U proposed terms of Regulation um it's it's complying with with what EPA is asking us to do but it's what they're asking us to do is close to what we have today so it's not so it's not all new it's just some of it's correct just polishing and question Madam chair if I could certainly thank you um I obviously would defer to the select board on this issue but my own impression is the town meeting would be particularly for this town meeting when we're going to confront MBTA zoning would be happy to pass this off this EPA requirement off to the elect board and DPW to decide I I think they'll be happy not to have to wrestle with 22 25 pages of detailed regulations question John for Chuck Chuck uh so you've gone through the regulations and you're prepared to chat about them for a couple of minutes people because I think the town they will look to you and I think they would they they would really seriously consider what your your comments are in that regard the one question I have here is frankly we're sitting here this is the first time we've seen this I think when did when did this come out from um so yeah you haven't seen the final version no but this topic the storm water thing so it did come up last last the winter yeah I'm not sure when the exact email was that we got from the basically from epa's Council telling us you know they were basically going through all of Massachusetts looking for the people that adopted D Mass DS guidelines and letter saying no these are the real guidelines so that was last fall or winter at some point we could have had a draft ready for town meeting but it would have been a heavy lift um to you know make it understandable just kind of like it is now so we punted it from then to now I we did have a draft I you know I was able B to send it to an as Greg and I and Mark Resnik were passing it around our desks um I would say it's it is tough because there's a lot of definition you know so there if you're looking at it as a red line there are a lot of definitions that we try to capture back in but those are kind of Good Housekeeping not the content driven changes the content driven changes are very light but as GRE said it you know they are changes they are coming from above not from our you know existing you know the town's requirements yeah um that being said I mean they're not anything you know extravagant in terms of you know putting a lot of process if anything I would say they're you they're more regulating of storm water which goes kind of hand inand with taming development and curving unruly development with respect to the environment um they are along those lines but they are coming from a non-con okay well I I if I may I mean I I kind of agree with Allen's comment that in light of the NBTA thing if you provide testimony in your thoughts I think a lot of people would say fine and I think there are people that say oh this strengthens things that's good which is what this does and there's nothing Ive right now that I think you would have to address the CST and put that in context but other than that um they're going Beyond those the guidelines I understand just want to be careful that we're not approving we're not asking the town meeting to approve the regulations we're asking the town meeting I think to lose give up control over these regulations to the DPW and the select board so I think that's a good idea because I don't think that there's anybody that there are probably five people in town who would care enough to read all of these understand them and ask reasonable questions um and you were one of them this sorry this is this is stuff that's very technical for um a a open town meeting to take on so I I think in fact that that changing uh the the the change that made it something that the DPW would produce and the S board would bless will make the town run better I'm just hope can be brought to understand that that's what we're asking for we shouldn't be getting into the question of of whether the project is a concom directed permit or or um planning board directed project and where the DPW comes in and how it gets approved by the DPW we should just just in my opinion we better off just saying this is something this is something that's requires technical expertise and we have the technical expertise in so what is the warrant actually going to the say well the warrant would have the proposed three pager um that that basically says we're uh moving forward with EPA compliant storm water RS and that the DPW will promulgate those regulations um after review and approval by the s that work for me yeah a half an hour oh I think more than that at least half an hour I I Madam chair if I could I I my professional career was an environment as an Environmental Lawyer and I read the proposed draft regulations that Chuck has drafted and without doing a ton of research I didn't understand them good job Chuck I didn't write him either but okay okay um so 3A we've got that's okay CPC I think we're okay with sounds as if who bet the solution that this like can stand behind so the other the other one was the possibility of amending basically expanding a short-term rental bylaw in anticipation of the new state law that takes effect in February regarding um adus being byright use in single family home districts as long as they're I think it's 900 square feet maximum um so there's concern that with that new state law effect um it'll open up possibility of of new adus and and given our pretty lack less not very rigorous definition for short-term rentals a lot of these new adus if we have them could be used for short-term rentals somewh defeating the purpose of the Adu law which is try to get some um more diversity on our housing stock for for residents not not for short-term rentals um so I I shared with you the the bylaw the the city ordinance that glosser recently approved which um put much tighter controls on what kind of Adu can be rented for for short terms um in terms of ownership in terms of um type of residence Etc um so I think there's some good uh language in there that that would be helpful to us us I think trying to get this all together and ready for November 18th is awfully awfully tight and the the the schedule for in February you can supply for a building permit and you have to have it built and rented by mid April right so I I I think our risk and I think Sarah M she's on the on the call here she might want to chime in but Ness I think I don't think there's a high high risk of being flooded with new adus that are being occupied prior to April do it at the April town meeting right I think you know yes there's a risk but I think it would not be a flood dat or a flood and the risk might be even um let's say there were a bunch of adus these permits we what I guess if someone would what you're saying is they would not be required to get a permit if they had an Adu that was outside of our current guidelines because our guidelines are so LAX like people could just yeah okay right it would be a short-term risk I mean okay um um you know if someone had an ex an existing apartment over garage that they that they're not that they haven't permitted right and that soent could be quickly permitted an occupany permit issued and then they could start renting it on short term and then the new bylaw would miss them it would not pick them up they would be grandfathered oh they would be grandfathered that's the RIS that's the risk properties can be grandfathered that's but that's an existing property I mean might need some modification but right so someone's starting new and they hope to build a new too hard that's you're not going to get that done in a couple months right so and if they have something that they that they're using as an Adu and it's not permitted they could probably also be send using it as an Airbnb without permitting right so the people who are not obeying the law are likely not to obey the law so so Sarah does have her hand okay please Sarah please yeah I I think that I do have concerns about grandfathering of Adu units um but I also think that it's more approp rate for the regulations for adus to be within the zoning bylaw and not try to retrofited into the short-term rental bylaw for instance the state definition of short-term rental is less than a month and I think that if it's a state mandate we want to push to use the maximum the state allows us to use the other big difference is in an Adu you can't require um an owner on property um so it's really significantly different than our current short-term rental and it seems to me that it needs to go into the zoning bylaw and you to give you more flexibility on the short-term rental in the general bylaw and just go by the minimum we have to and for instance adus within a half mile of the train station can't require parking um that's a difference um from our and there's very little restrictions you can place on them now in you know in in reality I can tell you I have a guest Suite on my first floor with a full kitchen and technically I could apply for a permit in February and have it approved as an Adu because and I'm sure there's lots of people that have those type of situations but I don't know how many people would take advantage of so I think the risk of waiting to April may not be super great and if we were to try and put it into the zoning that would require a public hearing from the planning board and we are out of pretty much out of time right I wanted to pull it together and I just had too many other priorities is there anything though that we would still want to update as far let's suppose we go down that road of updating it in the zoning bylaws isn't there anything we still I think there's still merit in updating the short-term rental too I I had a question about the Gloucester one I mean I think we should defer this for um future discussion but just a a question on the um what Sarah brought up the 30-day minimum um I mean maximum I guess that that's what's considered a short-term rental a a rental that's no more than 30 days correct and in our current bylaws do we have something about rentals being at least six months or I mean is there there's just so we have nothing okay we have nothing we are silent all right that's where I think the risk is for right right now we only capture six days or less okay so aside from What Sarah Said to your point I I think we still have work to do as a select board to update our yeah I think you could pursue both yes that's my point yes but not between now and the 18 but not between now and the 18th yes but I think we should put it on our action items to review that by law set some deadlines so we aren't having the same discussion on uh you know March 15th you know yeah exactly yeah so um first meeting in December read the gler thing read our current shortterm and be prepared to discuss it also our existing biue yeah yeah yeah boy okay alen do you have any insight into this Mr moderator I I do not thank you thank you thank you for asking I think we also have an unpaid bill so yeah so the last one is um a bill from past last fiscal year um that did not get paid and to in order to pay it it takes a vote of the the our legislative body which is our town meeting um to to authorize that payment um it's um related to Consultants that were hired for the um the 40b appeal process and um it just the bill got lost in the shuffle so doesn't happen very often but when it does we need to go to the voters so I don't think that's a heavy lift seem it's pretty straightforward I think it's pretty straightforward yeah hey the only the only thing that's not straightforward about it is that it's a 9/10 vote right that's that's the hitch do we need to discuss the order of AR I need to discuss the order and we need to discuss which ones you to recommend approval for you can finalize that we do need to have a special meeting um on the 29th um we can finalize things then but it's it's always good to get at least a sense of the board it's reasonably early tonight I don't like warning meetings and I'm cranky I no just so just for clarification on these different warrant articles are they all with the exception of the one requiring 9/10 um of of the voters to say yes are the rest of them a simple majority vote if if I could respond yeah certainly um yes provided that this the planning board at its hearing on October 28th um takes out of the proposed MBA MBTA zoning bylaw the requirement for a a special permit for accessory structures in the Beaver Dam Road District Town Council has opined that including that special permit requirement would trigger a 2third vote requirement for the entire article so if so the there are two options they could just delete it completely and just foro that provision or they could separate that provision out as a separate second AR article and that would be a 2/3 whereas the main art the the the article on all the other 3A related would be a majority so um and just because there has been some talk as to the timing of the NBTA zoning warrant article you know why are we having it now can't we push it to town meeting in the spring um I think we've discussed in some forms that you know if we approve it now we we could offer to repeal it in in the spring would that also be a simple majority vote or is that repeal would repealing it um be a different uh require a different vote I would want to ask Town Council but my my impression is that would be a 2third twoth thirds to repeal if we okay I think the the the the exception from the two-thirds requirement is is for allowing certain uh types of zoning as of right one of which is multifam and that requires a simple majority I think if he were to go the other way that would take two-thirds but I as I say I want to ask Town Council that question good good question confirmation okay is there discussion um among the board of the idea of waiting um delaye we can go ahead with the CPC and storm water and the late bill um and and take up as many of the as some residents that have take up the uh only when Milton reveals itself don't um I think it's okay to vote now and as was was described if if we have to change or modify we can way to vote because I think that the money that we spend to defend our position I'd rather spend on call special to meeting even if we end up at two in the spring or something like that yeah I don't want to I don't want to be shortsighted here okay I think that we can all hope for the best but I think we have to prepare and be proactive as to how we're going to handle it and my preference is I'll be the first one to call for a special time meeting oh I'll be I'll be right there with you okay there'll be about seven of us about seven of us so I think that I I I just don't think it's prudent to follow suit uh I look this is the way I look at it when I was if I was single as opposed to being a Family Guy like there were a lot of things I did when I was single but I wouldn't do because I had responsibilities as a family guy a lot of things I would do I would if I was not sitting here I might push hey what the hell's let's wait but we do have a family here okay it's a it's a dysfunctional family as it is but it's a it's town of Manchester I think we have to be a little bit more prudent and responsible and uh prepare for the worst and hope for the best yeah I agree I I think that if if if m and the other I think there's another another town suing as well or is it just Holden I think there's more than one if they win I hope they win if they win it's going to be because of a valid legal argument Manchester not approving this zoning change is not going to impact that to the best of my understanding I I withholding our compliance I don't see how that helps the legal argument you know against a bad law which I think it's a really bad law so I I agree with Brian I think we we you know Put It Forward let the people have their say and if it goes forward and the lawsuits are successful then we modify our zoning as we feel need to as a town um but I I just don't think it helps the legal I think some people think it's going to help the the legal case if we all say no and I don't understand that I mean you still know what's going to happen I mean it could go to town meeting and fail but we did it we don't if we don't vote by the Mandate it was at the end of the year right do we automatically now fall off any list for for funding right well even if we say no we fall off the list don't you know and we have just there's just too much writing on this and uh I'm going to put my faith in the the task force that they're going to make their uh their case and level heads will prevail and we can hope and we can tell everyone that should the uh should it fail should Milton Prevail we'll be the first ones to call for absolutely oh yeah but I think that they just it's irresponsible not to take it up take it up my opinion no I agree I don't see anything on the list of votes that we need to take um but I think we each heard each other and we are in agreement that this should go on The nbda Zing should go on talk about supporting so just as a matter of practice I think it's always best to see the actual written article before we say yay or nay do we Okay recommend it I just as a matter of diligence it's fine yeah no that's fine we'll just need to make those decisions the P yes I don't think there's anything I mean we could take no position and just let the people like I said I think it's it's good to for all the Articles not I'm not talking anyone in particular we should know what we're recommending I don't see anything in front of me so I'm not ready to recommend anything but I might recommend everything if it was just sitting in front of me um when on the 29th would you like me um ideally be in time or before 1:00 so um so the planning board will meet and hold their public hearing on Monday evening the 28th they may at the end of that public hearing that night make some changes to to what they're proposing um and so we have what what's we get to all of you we can what is being proposed what's what's on the docet for for the 28th there may be some fine tuning of this on that evening and then that would be finalized um either that night or well from the plan board perspective it'll be finalized that night and then um we can walk through those changes on Monday Tuesday Tuesday morning people schedules I know that was hard to too late in the morning so I can zoom in what what time are you thinking I'm sorry is want do it at 8 o'cl you want do it at 830 8:00 I can make it here yeah the earlier the better for me about still there TR we have to sign this stuff though so then we need need to sign the warrant yes okay I mean can we we have to sign what's what's the deadline for signing versus attending the meeting um so um for signing we need you have a few more days you have to the end of the week okay I got there in the afternoon to sign they'd be fine as long as we had the meeting in the morning yes okay I just we yeah I just need to do any I just need to finalize the warrant that you vote on okay and give it to Cricket for publication by by the end of the day Tuesday so when can we have the language of the warrant the language of the article is we'll have all the Articles ready in a couple in draft form so you you'll see the actual language you have 3A zoning as it understand it's going to be last minute but there may be a few edits to that but but you have the you have the Y the bo Y in its final form um and then the the storm water RS that that new shorter version is ready to go I just need to make can send that out to you yeah whatever you can send out to us like this week yes I mean if you guys want do eight as long as I can do Zoom I can do eight I just yeah then I leave first thing 4:00 in the morning under 29 no 30th 30 okay but no so I'm thinking so uh Tuesday morning is fine Tuesday night we're going to pan the butt so 8 o' on the 29th and you will get us as much of those materials as possible um Mr moderator do you have any any further comments yeah Alan you're muted Sor sorry I was muted um no I don't have any don't have any other comments thank you is there anyone in the room who has further comments is there anyone online who has comments that's I think we're done with that um item on our agenda okay FY 26 capital budget discussion M Madam chair I will I will say good night thank you very much you're very welcome where do you want sure y have to um so capital capital planning um as you know the finance committee um identified appal plan as a high priority you you have as well and they have started earlier than than we normally do so we're focusing on Capital right now um they the finance committee met this last Wednesday and started to go over um some new new spreadsheets so I I broken down Capital into two buckets one is what I will call sort of the standard yearly capital budget takes care of equipment needs um some of the projects are large but smaller relatively smaller um pipe projects um sort of this the run-of-the-mill if you will I don't mean to UND undermine those importance of those but more the run-of-the-mill capital items in the past we've been spending in the $3 million range every year those standard typical every year we we tackle fairly long list of projects they total about three3 and a half million doar um with with inflation with the cost of Construction and Equipment that has happened um I think it's proven that that three to three and a half be be four million plus or minus every year in sort of your standard um Capital items so that's one bucket so we have a five-year plan we added one more year to that fiveyear plan every year you know we drop off one year we add a year um and so that's that's one spreadsheet that you have the second spreadsheet is is a new spreadsheet that looks at the major facility needs that we may need to do in the next 25 30 years um and it identified those project potential projects and identified bonding for those and trying to space out that bonding in a way that yes it's burdensome but can we do it in a way that doesn't break break the bank in terms of taxpayers ability to absorb the The Debt Service on these new bonds um so that's what the second spreadsheet is and and in terms of you know where you spend your time I think it's probably more important to spend time on that facility financing as a priority and see where there's agreement moving forward on the and then we can get to the the typical yearly Capital items um so if if you look at the facility financing it obviously makes a lot of assumptions which any long range plan will have to do starting out with how much uh bonds cost in terms of interest payments you know do you do a 15-year Bond a 30-year Bond all that obviously impacts the bottom line and what kind of financial hit that causes and then of course there's the projects themselves and when are they necessary to do and in what order so in in looking at the next 30 years we have identified um what we think are the critical projects that will need to get done and obviously we made assumptions about the size and scope of those projects um and obviously this is subject to a lot of fine tuning but I think the basic concepts regardless of that fine tuning are still very important to try to nail down and get a direction um so uh in that financing plan you see some bonding that that was approved this past year that was for the water and sewer upgrades that was $7.5 Million um that is a showing as a shorter term bond of 15 years to get it paid off and free up money 15 years from that um similarly I show u p mitigation so again uh a big expense it's probably you know 20 plus million we we'll know for sure later this this winter whether or not we can do that for a little less money we should are hopeful that we will get some grant money as well as some um settlement litigation monies um that are in the works um but again a lot of unknowns but nonetheless um an important project to to make sure that we remove the pasas from our drinking water um so this is relatively new this was this hasn't been on the books for a lot of years like a lot of these others um because of the the the discovery of the impacts of PS um and the and the new much much lower thresholds that EPA is um is requiring all all public water supplies to meet um so you see a p p and dredging we can separate those out about 2 million for dredging and 21 million for the past work um going down the line then we show the new DPW garab showing that going earlier because it's in on the facility planning that's been done the current ppw site has been identified as as a strong possibility for future public safety building um you there's um given the the flooding threats that both fire and police have that's a that will become a higher priority as as the years unfold here um so you see um then the DPW garage you also see the S6 elementary school so that project is underway in the in the in the design stage the planning and design stage at the early phase of that anticipating that to come online in um by 29 in terms of actually paying a bond so what I show again just walking through that that facility spreadsheet is the key project how much money and then when they would kick in in terms of payment on the bonds um so that's the top half of the spreadsheet and then the bottom half of the spreadsheet are the revenues to pay for those but just to finish up the projects so we have the ex S6 Elementary in there and then further out not until um mid-30s 2030s showing public safety building um and Town Hall Rehabilitation um for a total of 30 million and then this next line resiliency project sewall's CS or total of 45 million that is projected to come from um the savings as bonds are retired and instead of giving those savings back to the taxpayer I show them going in as capital exclusions so that the good news is that you can keep once you get to a higher level of of payments you keep that steady and you're not going up higher but you're also not dropping it um I I do think it's it's an effective way we were able to benefit from that over these past 10 years and enabled us to do some additional capital projects that were very helpful um and I think it's a u an approach that the voters have have um found acceptable um so I do assume that we continue with that and because of and you'll see in the revenue side because of retiring debt it frees up monies particularly starting in in the early 30s and carrying through past 2050 that's how it it adds up over the years to that that amount um and then finally as a as a large placeholder I'm not taking place until the end of close to 2050 I think it's 48 or 49 um bonding for building a a a wastewater treatment plant in another location um so mainly because of again flooding concerns um you know alternative Navy that you can fortify and put a very um high and strong basically a seaw wall around the plant um have a cost but it will be expensive as relocating the plan is that viable that's something that you know over the years we have to kick the tires much harder on sorry you keep saying we we right yeah I'm going to so in any case I'm showing a $70 million yeah pag there um I just have one question while you're going so when you figure these figures for these things I know I just said that twice yeah um that's in today's dollars you're figuring right or is that it's it's a combination of some projection ahead okay yes yes I mean that that plant today would not cost $70 million right but am I accurate that statement chck yeah like to just to rebuild it as is is yeah would be much less than 70 but you know whether or not we're really looking at a 3% escalation over the next 40 years right but there's some not sure we there there some kind of there's some Factor some is it is it super accurate F that bit of a bit of a dart yeah definitely the further out you go more of a guessing game I would say the ones like P and you know probably dredging and uh even you know DPW facility like those are more you know those were just done in 2023 so you know I don't think we've escalated them 3% over the next two years but I think it's still a Rel relevant bar the further you get out they are conceptual level estimates that were based on construction factors of 2023 and brought forward um I yeah I think it Point like it might not be exactly 3% well I wasn't for an exact number I was just trying to get an idea how you so yeah how you get this the closer the more accurate the further out right yeah I get that so those those are the we have four eight eight projects listed as the main big facility um projects that are that are on in our future um and then then I look at revenues right what what would it cost actually do this again making based on all the various assumptions and timing and so for Revenue um right off the bat I'm looking at Water and Sewer I'm assuming that the water Capital fee that you approve for the meters would continue on and those dollars would be available then to help pay off some of the debt that is in the pasas and water sewer upgrades um and make the assumption that we Institute a similar fee in sewer ramp it up over a few years to get to that same 500,000 a year um then I show the the new revenues from from CST the U from both phase one and phase two again phasing that in over time as as revenues that could be used towards Bond payments then I show both current Town debt that we have and that gradually goes away and same with school debt that gradually goes away and I show that being reallocated then towards these new Bond payments then I show um some liabilities that also will will go away by early early to mid throughs so our our oped um health insurance for retirees and um the account of retirement system should be F fully funded by that same the so that frees up about a million and a half dollars that we're currently paying for those liabilities so again I'm taking that money and showing it going towards Bond payments so that's how I try to reduce the impacts um on on new taxation for these bonds um so then you get to that bottom line new tax revenue needed that that line 18 if you're looking at the spreadsheet and what does that translate into um a tax rate and again I'm assuming starting off each percentage Point raises about $300,000 um and that'll grow over time about $15,000 a year and history is in the guide um and so if you know if if we would to do exactly what's on this this sample you would see a 3% tax increase for bonding needs just for the bonding then in 27 a 6% increase in 28 and roughly a 5% 4.9% increase in 29 that's just for bonding doesn't include increases in operating cost or the small Capital right um so the the small Capital I'm assuming is is part of the the overall standard budget covered by the two to two and a half percent which is what we typically see but yes you would have to in addition to those percentages you would want to add the typical two two and a half% to cover operating SL regular Capital cost 4% for schools well so the 4% for school we have absorbed within the two and a half MH MH um it does not assume you know obviously I haven't projected any um override boats for operating either school or town um would the see the high school um will be 25 years old in 34 yes and that will trigger let me more yes does that get done in one year or do improvements get made over a fiveyear period how how does that get best funded so correct that's that's that is not in this and and 10 years after that the memorial school right yeah right so um you have some flexibility and that in that 45 million that I talked about in terms of I was showing targeted towards reson about seaw walls and culs um you could add um schools to you know Capital medium medium Capital needs of schools um you could probably work that in to that that number as well so based on the conversation we have been the other day um uh and I know we're going to have more conversations with them about this budget one of the things I think they were looking for from us was a sense of priorities out of all the things that you listed here what do we see as the priorities so I think that would be helpful just to discuss that for a minute um secondly I I think it's it's a very comprehensive well done analysis so thank you because it's a great starting point for the discussions we need to have I think we also um need to consider how we smooth out these bumps right that was the other right and I do think we need to take a look at the existing spend so while you're correct we may need to increase to four million on average okay to accommodate for increase in costs not everything we do in small capital is pipes and and and stuff like that we we to help smooth out those bumps maybe in those years we don't do the four million we we go down to two and a half or something you know what I'm saying we have to look at all options because these are really big bumps um in in the tax rate and you know not going over two and a half percent is important because we we you know the town is allergic to overrides okay but the town's people know when they're paying more than 2 and a half% when their bill goes up so I just think we we need to look at all options for reducing the bumps which includes lowering our spending or deferring some spending um for things that I won't say aren't necessary but maybe aren't necessary that year you know can we defer or in some instances can you pull in okay um so we need to use both levers to to try and and smooth out these bmps a little bit question are these debt exclusions or this is just the tax rate you got to get a vote on this or well typically they are debt exclusion Vats yes because otherwise to pay you you won't be able to do that you wouldn't be able to to pay for these bonds within the limits of Two and a Half no so um so yes they would be I think we just have to revisit how much charge the CH house or 8,000 a piece so do we want to talk priorities or not is that early I like the order that that great me the p is something that's right I mean that's coming and you're not going to really have a choice stand with the school and and you say the order in I just want to make sure understanding what you said what was in his email yeah that's what I was looking at so it was seven F you know the stuff we already approved obviously that's a high priority right we already approved that the water and sewer upgrades then P dredging DPW and Essex Elementary yeah yeah that look like a good PR and that's not that's nothing new we've always been talking those are the top uh items I think it's I just want to say I think it's very important that we that we get moving on the DPW facility I know there's been um and I'm not saying this because Chuck's here but but um it moving that and or making decisions about what we do with that will free up a lot of time to discuss other things I'll say it that way um we haven't firmly committed to moving it okay well we better make that decision because a lot of other stuff is riding on that decision so I I feel very strongly that during this cycle we need to get moving on the I think we need to have a discussion of what we actually need there too exactly and and I'd like to and I've asked this Chuck already but I understand the estimate is 22 I want to know what we can get for 12 I want to what we can get for 10 I want to know we what what are we giving up by saying I I I can only afford 12 million what can you do for me if we ask the question a different way we really might learn something that we can then apply to some of these other projects so I didn't just come here to look pretty if you want I can I don't want you guys down for hours because I could but I do think it's worth probably talking about some of those thoughts and I think I have answers ready to you know talk about and then I could certainly provide any back background data or other analysist that you needed so you I want any Thunder if you guys have more I'm just saying I think we're talking about during this financial cycle that we're just starting actually putting some money in to do something there okay I'm saying right now I support that but we've got to have the conversation we got I know it's putting on our you know talking now or putting it on our action item list to have a good discussion on DBW let's get moving let's make the outline the decisions we got to make make some decisions uh I I would get into that detail tonight but for the for the coming budget right now in capital is the planning for the DPW is that correct propos I don't know what the number is going to be but that's a topic and there's going to be some number next to that line or we expect that there will be so you know to kind of help with that we I think we have a placeholder I'm not sure well I've seen two numbers here what the what it is but so I think we have the placeholder uh we we have money in this year's budget that we're actively looking to spend right now that will inform whether that number is high low or somewhere you know right on um you know the kind of short answer is you know if if we don't need it I won't spend it so we can always defer it to a following year whatever is unspent and you know we talk about that whenever we execute contract for any you know design and construction or anything um so I think know that's all certainly on the table and you know the way we always do it frankly um so I'm not too worried about that I just want to make sure that we stay on Pace um because I do think it's you know High yeah so we we have allocated money for a technical geotechnical geal exporation yes and when does that happen so we actually are under contract right now I'm waiting for the final uh loads of compost that you finished compost to move off the site so we can physically get there to do the borings and the Sur and so I've been pushing that to be done sooner rather later hopefully by the end of this month which means November you know they're literally under contract to go out there and do the work which is you know a reasonable time anyway because leaves are off the trees and you know you get a better look at things and stuff like that but certainly the big piles of finished compost need to be gone to get any sort of accurate data or War okay is there a problem of getting that done um is there pressure that we need to put on black earth oh yeah but I we we'll see in the weekend stay tuned that day is coming okay maybe we all need to go up there with bags I'll watch the seal problem is gone okay okay so um before we let a contract to design this thing we probably need to have a long discussion about what it is we're designing EXA so I will forward you know we already have some of this in the camp Believe It or Not So before we did the F master plan I've actually been a part of two sting analysis for DPW one was before we moved the compost uh to the pin Street location and then next one was alternative analysis between the existing site and the School Street site which actually does have in it uh needs and wants as well as just the programming that exists today on the uh Pleasant Street site um so it's it's worth reading I don't know that it's I would appreciate I'd like to see it so so that does exist um and then you know stepping forward into the facility master plan we again looked at exactly what would be you know desired or needed and you know how that shakes out costs now it is probably a step short of where you know I'm I'm willing to go once we get you know another couple months down the road um and certainly you know Kathy we talked about uh alternative construction methods and different site uh analysis I think the the cost that's presented the 22 is million it's not it's an order magnitud cost conceptual level cost um I don't think it's going to be 2 million I don't think it's going to be 200 million but it's a it's a good starting point certainly room to come down and so I I do think obviously we would we would very much get into the Weeds on before we design you know say the placeholder is $3 million before we execute that full three million if we're taking things off the table then we wouldn't obviously spend the whole three million but I think the placeholder is still valid or two million whatever it is my questions at this point are please send all of us all the information you've got yep um when would you be ready to have a discussion about the difference between needs and wants well I guess I would put it back on you I'll send you the the document that I have now if you have any gaps or you know questions then I would say just email me directly if it warrants me doing a lot more research then I'd need a couple weeks to a month or whatever uh but if it's you know kind of as you guys were expecting then I'll talk about it next week or two weeks or after town meeting or whatever you want yeah so it's possible to have the discussion December okay December depending on the depth of your questions and what information gaps we need to fill are we meeting with the finc con that first week of December we supposed have a joint meeting with them to K off the budget and season I can't remember what date side so I know we talked about the The Joint meeting for the budget prary budget that'll be the what was that the 16th is that the 16th okay so the first week of December we're not crowding that yes okay yep December 16th joint select board fincon meeting okay um but there was talk about possibly doing a joint meeting on Capital prior to that oh okay I don't have that note in front of it um I something that I'm was leading up to is perhaps the whole review of the design and and doesn't need to be done by the whole Committee in a regular meeting so we probably should talk about it one one more time and then if there are people who are interested in working closely with Chuck we can set up perhaps even including um other people people from other committees and people from not to the task course but yeah so believe it or not Nate and I have both discussed uh the need for potentially some sort of facility committee to kind of help uh her cats uh and get these get these things going but we'll leave that one for much future give us give us a you know after our the meeting where we get our questions answered and then we can can I pull you guys again I guess on one other topic that came out of last week's facility meeting and the it's the idea of collocating that's why I con staying I wondered why they were staying has been some question out there it certainly wasn't part of the facility master plan but potentially collocating Public Safety as well as DPW on that set now I have you say School Street is that yes on the potential new DPW site um and so we did look at it as just a standalone Public Safety site you know on the upper kind of tier where DPW would be and it at that point didn't pass kind of that kind of rating because of the proximity to the road and uh you know other factors in terms of response times and so on but that's not to say it's impossible it's just to say it wasn't ideal in the way we laid out the entire plan and as we said when we adopted the facility master plan it is a living document and I'm happy to go back and look at things if they weren't a closer look and so that did come up last week as well and so you know I've had discussions with these guys who been up on the site prior to that and have looked at it and kind of you know one last time one are the pros and cons and so so on so forth but the big one that I see from a just build it perspective taking the public safety side out of it but they can answer that better than me is um the the idea of collocating them makes some sense uh and I I do like it uh in terms of building stuff and you know makes a lot of sense as a campus but the ideal scenario would be the public safety portion would be located right at the intersection of school and Atwater and that would be in the face of kind of the existing um uh zoning as well as those other restrictions in that kind of area which would be you know you're not meeting all the setbacks and special requirments in LCD no matter what but then there's also concom uh you know Wetlands jurisdiction in there for being in the buffer not no build Zone necessarily so let say like it it is feasible but it would require that level of kind of public support that would rise Beyond you know us just putting it like this is the place to go you know even if Public Safety is supported or not um and so I guess I you know just to kind of put in your mind like we will vet that out a little bit more in terms of what that would cost and the potential impacts but that's to say it is a much heavier lift and that would be you know the same issues we heard about the blasting for CST would be front and center the issues for shingle Hill and the potential 40 be front and center um you know in the concom jurisdiction so like all of these questions would then be thrown on on top of just the financial ramifications and everything else we talk so I just want to kind of you know what what your guys's thought would be kind of a straw man type thing that that is a potential I see Brian pointing at the Chiefs and I would also like to hear from them regarding response times to our riskiest area which is the downtown and the harbor you Senor I don't think that respons time would be really any different um since we know the town's small as it is one thing we did discuss was the 128 bridge if that were to go out and get hit for any no reason and we would be on that side of town uh however you know on my 30 it's never really been out of service but there I mean there is that uh sort of potential um I do know that when rock that was a similar concern when Rockport built their uh new police station they moved it from the center of town uh toward the outskirts and they found that they did have more Walkins than than they did actually did when they were in the center to due to parking and and and due to you know just not people not being see any paring but but the bridge was a was a uh sort of concern yeah that would be my only concern is just a oneway access But to answer Chuck's question are we open to it I'm open to all options my I I definitely open all options my concern though I still have visions of the boat fire we had at the ramp and I'm and you know thank God we had a fire station right there firefighter who saw the smoke and prevented that from turning into something really ugly that is my care about I mean I look at a couple different options uh you know you look at the Pleasant Street site you know School streets a direct shot coming down um you know for for us I think that all the sites have positive and negatives one thing I might look at is Middleton they they have they're building a whole town complex where the golf course used to be and then they got a cheaper rate on construction because they put it all out at the same time right so you know what's I don't know what the answer to that is but what's the cost benefits to that in the long you know look at the forest through the trees I don't know what like would it be possible to do something um where where you station some of the equipment in one place yeah um so that you don't have to use the submerged part of the fire station and um the core elsewhere yeah you know there are renovation potentials at the current station um I think you're going to run into some grant funding problems being within the flood plane and from what I've done on a cursory view so I don't think we're gonna have as much um you know monies coming in to assist us but I think that's that's an option but it also doesn't fix the police station either so well the Poli station doesn't flood all the time the uh I was a I am still a fan of Pleasant Street site but I do like the visibility that School Street affords yeah okay coming into town uh access we had discussed this over a year ago and you con were fire trucks pulling out of the uh into a residential area on p on you know stre so uh I think it's certainly worth building looking at a municipal center you know like you said I'm seeing what's going on up at uh in Middleton now I try to buy it every day I think the response time thing I mean it's no different being down here than having resp way it's it's more about where where the risk is right you're from a fire standpoint personally and you can tell me I'm wrong all wrong I see the risk as the downtown certainly I mean it's denser densely populated and you get you know floating piles of fiberglass and gasoline right so that's my fear from a fire standpoint I'm a thankfully we're a blessedly you know safe town and I'm less concerned about you know the police coming from school Street less concerned about that fire makes me nervous to that point Cathy I've lived down town for yeah 25 years yeah all right I don't you know other than an ambulance response here and there uh I don't see any there's nothing I I haven't seen a fire truck downtown in well you weren't on Pine Street last week were you there have been a couple you know you look at the different spots one benefit the Pleasant Street is you know you worry about downtown flooding it allows us to kind of split the town from an elevated perspective right in those events so you know look there have been a couple of carf fires on 128 y that's that's for sure I mean I I'm I'm open to all Alternatives and the the challenge we have is there aren't very many but the two projects are on a different timeline and I would think that whatever is going on with the DPW and the planning you have to keep in mind okay so how is the space going to be optimized for uh safety police SL maybe buyer um Center as well and how that all fits together I I do think that if it makes sense the zoning and the permits I think can can be worked out keep your options flexible yes right like you said like you know Greg said earlier we we're not on the same timeline some things we're talking about we don't need for 10 years right um so keep your options flexible we can build things in a way that they could be expanded in the future some modular approach that you can tack on other things like Legos right um but keep your options open and um more flexible the better because we we don't know what's going to come come down the think you we were purposely not building in those buffers because it's harder so DPW is inherently not going to try and encroach on that but with Public Safety complex type thought we would have to and therefore you know we would need that support so if we build a DPW is that going to change the way we build it if we're going to add on down the road yeah so I'm saying I I don't think so because um there are there are certain elements of their operations that we would consider in our buildout anyway you know like say shared meeting space or something like that or they need you know response uh in B Center stuff like that like because they current Phil here is not great for that in the time of an incident having it somewhere else would make a lot of sense right now I think it's School PW makes more sense I think um but not at our current facility because we don't have those barers either um but so like that kind of you know would be built one way or another but it's all up and removed from that area that I'm envisioning where they would go um so yeah I don't I don't see it being an issue and certainly it doesn't have to be done at the same time but you know we could kick the tires on you know what are the cost benefits you know I don't think we're cutting any costs in half again but you know there is a lot of overlap in you know site work and those contractors and infrastructure certainly I think it the only thing I think is that it pushes it down the road that much further if we if we focus on the DPW with the idea that it could be expanded and just work on the DPW trying to take this whole thing is a single project yeah I agree I agree but so again to everyone shut any we're all very much on don't CL bur after last week SP we are um and so I think that yeah we we're looking into these things anyway I just want to make sure we set it so that you guys are aware and support so I think we have some things that we're going to do you're going to give us a lot of materials we're going to try and adjust those materials and come back um have meeting and talk about this in in more detail um and and unless anyone has other concerned I suggest that we thank you gentlemen for all the time that you have spent with us um and you're never getting it back thank you very much that very very useful y wonder why they were hanging around I was they were hang around moral support okay the next item on our agenda I'm we have updates in it's it's assigned Place done uh let's see well that's the DPW and that was that topic that's um pretty much said um Council on Aging I might I I met with the seniors today and they were asking questions about where we are on a new director because Nancy's retiring has that been something that has been on your to-do list okay yeah I haven't heard too much about that no yeah but they were they were wondering see sort of as a November December effort okay all right that's uh the primary they also were curious about the meeting which I know you cannot attend tomorrow or can you tomorrow um I'll be late oh okay all right that's fine depending how long they meet they're they're looking forward to updates on the senior center and money rais well you know y the major topics so those are the the two things there um I actually got to a school meeting um the two pieces of interesting information I gave you the budget budget SCH um they are still discussing the um their U Reserve policy but that seems to be settling down somewhat the uh Department of uh Elementary and secondary education is going to do a review and the review is going to be operational not education ation that is to say they will be looking at um the management of the schools the HR um and and that that part of the organization which I think is what both towns wanted to have happen um so that will be ongoing for I think about six [Music] months when is that going to start did they say they're starting I think they they start with a self- evaluation and I think they're starting that now um but I I can find out more precisely with the schedule um that everything seems to be reasonably going along the uh building project um has the scho yeah building they have a team that does the school building um it's got people who were on the memorial um um and Andy Oldman and and Gordon Bruce Brewster just um it seems like a really good team they have not um hired an operation manager which is their Next Step um they've decided that they need to look at the possibility of splitting um the grades so that um the um maybe K through three k through two usually K through two would be would stay in Essex yep yeah um and the amen and the we would merge them in grade three in grade three at Memorial that's probably Memorial is way significantly below the design guac capacity yeah yeah um it's a little complicated because it's part of the regional agreement um so it would require a town meeting code to change and um the 10 years ago when they did the set were setting up to build Memorial they did a fairly a significant study and felt that the parents of um elementary school kids in both towns LED their kids there um whether it makes educational or financial sense parents are peculiar but you know that that I'm glad to hear they're they're open to that because the K through two would would solve that issue right Essex K through2 students would stay in Essex Manchester K through2 would stay in Manchester and then the ess6 children would join in Memorial in grade three it saves Millions if we do it that way because of K through two typically does not require all the ancillary facilities that a full K through five elementary does you need a little playground you don't need Fields you know you know it's much less expensive so I'm so pleased to hear that they are considering yeah that that could save us a lot of money a lot of money you're also considering relocating to a site near their do off Apple Street yeah they bought a piece of land a piece of land off Apple um so but but I think the the committee that's currently studying this is quite capable of making those making a decision about whether relocating or building behind the current school or so that's basically what I know about what's going on that that that Apple Street location yeah only problem is a road Street they going to come in from the miltop street it's it goes over to the the dump and the DPW Barn it so that yeah that stretch of land goes right through but I don't know whatever but someone else is heading our own thought thought I'd let you know what theying about um and I think you know what the mvta zoning people would do you just sweating blood actually they did a really nice job at manchest I've heard a lot of good reports man Club so it was pretty well received good [Music] um uh yeah I get a few updates so um reminder the Board of Health is having a public hearing on proposed updates to I guess it's the tobacco marijana Etc law regulations public hearing is this Thursday night at 6:30 um so you're interested in understanding what the proposed changes are do you have synopsis Greg on what they're proposing so most of it is just sort of separating out what are currently combined and breaking them out into separate sections but the the most significant change and potentially the most controversial is um adding a new regulation that says any person born after 2004 generational right would would not be eligible to purchase tobacco products even after reaching age 21 does that like ever ever does that include vaping PR yes yes it does I just real over that's real overreach that's government so anyway that's what the public hearing is about you may want to attend as a citizen when when is this Thursday night at 6:30 so that's going on on the less controversial side let's see um so uh bik and ped has has met they um are working with Chief fitgerald um on a uh an ebike safety some sort of ebike uh video they had a video I think they made with him last year on a different topic and um biking in general and so now ebikes are the latest cause of you know injuries Etc so we're all trying to figure out what to do with that so that would that would be great um uh bik and ped also voted to endorse the green the Green Belt land acquisition that we're going to be proposing on the warrant for town meeting so they think it's a great idea and they're going to be formally endorsing that um the downtown Improvement um they um are submitting an application to the CPC to obtain CPA funding for the attractive street lights that they put on Summer Street um they want to as part of the Culvert project when this project digs up this area of the downtown we'd like to replace the street lights with the more historically accurate or uh you know attractive street lights so I encourage them you know do it do it well we're digging it up and uh so they're going to make their case to CPC for that funding and I think that was it that was it okay that's I'm making a note here because that winds up under the historic district commissions mhm yeah a little bit they're involved with lighting and that makes sense going around the curve on Beach Street that's outside the district but now you're coming back yeah so if there I mean their thought was to do what they did on Summer Street if that's not historically appropriate I'm sure they would be you know amenable to doing something that is historically appropriate the the idea is to get rid of these ugly Street LS of common so I'm sure the Common Ground there uh Fox W uh they voted to hold uh the pricing at singing Beach the uh they had a good year this year and prob only knows what's going to happen next year but um they decided to all the numbers work so they're going to they're going to hold it this year after what I've heard right now I think they should raise it like $10,000 a car or something no so at this point that's the only we deal with ch house now and then the next year we're good when are we having the updated parking discussion because we had said we were going to have it at the end of the season while it was frush in our minds I thought season's over yeah is that November or November November the first one um unfortunately I couldn't attend the last planning board meeting I had something going on and uh the hybrid advisory hasn't met so that's about it okay the consent agenda um is there anything that people would like to remove from the con yes I would like to pull out C okay I'd like to pull out B okay um why we doing it okay is there a vote to approv any minutes second Jeff yes Brian yes Kathy yes yes John says yes okay that was easy um the contract for the Town Administrator recruitment go uh have we even posted on our own no we have not why are you spending money now why why don't we just I I can't wrap my head around we haven't even attempted to uh post it on the MMA uh website or see what's out there you can always revisit this in two months if we don't like what we' seen for um for uh response but at this point I'm I'm lik to spend money than on something that we can certainly try ourselves uh you know we we've also talked about seccession planning here in town uh a lot of options I think that don't require us spending a lot of money other than what it cost to to post it I'd like to explore that option next six week the contractor end money we don't have spend where would that put us on a Time timeline wise if we did do so it's a little early to post right now here's finding if we're targeting you know early summer to have someone under contract say someone under contct by the end of June and then you know six to8 weeks later after they give notice they'll be taking my position put it's you know middle ofid of August which is what I was shooting for um so I I I think it's early to do that I hear what you're saying you could do that in first of the year and and see what happens it's um well I'll let John yeah the recruit I have some comments and I and I understand that and there will be all kinds of people in the mix but to organize and manage the process and do that internally takes a lot of volunteers on a committee and we're going to have to have a committee and somebody who's going to be committed to do that it's quite a few hours of pulling things together and setting up interviews and okay how's all of this process going to we evolved um I'm a little bit concerned about getting people that are going to be able to put that time together um I understand the timing problem that that uh that Greg has mentioned and I I think we need to take advantage of in any event a recruiter I mean we could post it as described and maybe get a little bit behind the eightball but you still want a recruiter to go and they've got a Rolodex we all know how that works and that's you know if you've got an experienced group they know how this process goes and they have the Rolodex to chase down the possible people it may be that the best person is inter it may be that that's the situation but that process still has to be managed and I'm concerned about having uh the time and so interrupt just briefly well just because I've forgotten what is the amount of money we're talking about 14 14 okay so it's it's short money for a position of this importance John is correct you typically use a recruiter um because part of what they're going to do is meet with stakeholders and learn about what we want out of our next Town Administrator right what what are the characteristics that you want to see what are the requirements of the position they're going to talk to people um because it's a great opportunity to kind of you know um open our aperture a little bit also um they are very well networked so they did indicate it's going to be a competitive um market and we talked about getting something posted in um the January time frame so we could take advantage of the MMA conference in January to see who's interested to maybe meet some people in person um so just typically for a leadership position like this you would use a recruiter yeah the the um uh Kathy and I and Greg met with this one recruiting firm that Greg knows well but he gets calls every week for people uh looking see if they can attract him away this is a fairly prominent group they did say that about 60% of all searches are recruiter and of all of all of the Town managers 60% generally go through a recruiter me 40% do not they do 60% of those 60% so they are the dominant player um in this area and they describe some of the challenges we have and I guess the biggest one is geography Greg accepted because he moved here but most Town managers will not move and of course we're dealing app our radius as water you recruited you know I don't don't remember how I first learned of the the opening know if I saw it on my on the recruiter's ad or or did they did they send me an email don't it was these people out emails but then they pick up the phone and call people I mean they do the call calls Greg did say we had a recruiter whether he was contacted by a recruiter he's not sure but the town hired a recruiter in 2012 or 13 or whenever yes back back then yeah we used the recruiter that so do they do the weeding out or is that our responsibility they will weed to a certain point and probably say here are by so this were the screening committee we talked about putting together a screening committee which would be made up of different you know a few people of board members maybe a we talked about a prior select board member who had gone through this process before maybe an atlarge member that's what we probably need to talk about at our next meeting the makeup of the screening committee um and and those people would screen the candidates for ultimate selection by the select board so typically the recruiter you know say you get 30 applications they'll they'll Whittle that down to eight or so present those eight to the screening committee screening committee say yeah we like the looks of these spots when they'll interview the five and then they'll recommend three to you as a board and then and then it is turned over to you as a board to do those interviews of those three finalists um and the recruiters will help with setting that up and and help you with the questions and that sort of thing if you so SAR I've been through a superintendent service yeah I mean the we said that the money involved is quote short money I think we've probably all been exposed to recruiters which generally make a ton more than that in the private sector but this is a very specific uh discipline that 350 towns here in Massachusetts need so they they are well schooled in terms of the uh critical issues they just need for your town which are the critical issues among all of the issues that uh they're familiar with and they would probably interview US I'm sure they would yes yeah they learn and and so we're going to tell them what's happens if I fail important get R Great on the curve yeah still a problem it's multiple choice right if we um I'm somewhat convinced well I move that we approve the contract for the Town Administrator recruitment second okay Jeff yes Bri no yes say yes and John says yes okay contract for the operational audit discussion so here we have um two different proposals we received three quotes um um I didn't include the the sort of the middle one uh I feel like the two that I showed you uh more highly qualified do the work um just because of their their background they're all retired managers they they been in the in the industry for a long time um so but you had two different proposals one um is sort of a strategic Strike Team um focus little of on that I I want to call it low hanging fruit but but but Focus very narrowly on a handful of recommendations um and and put those forth and help us flush those out um the the other firm would take a more comprehensive approach the deeper dive um and you we'll also look at you know uh action actionable steps to that are you know prioritize those but but it'll be a deeper dive um so one estimated about 50 hours and the other doubled that about 100 hours and there the two prices reflect those those differences one is about double the [Music] other so in my mind I have gone back and forth the pros and cons for for either approach and and certainly both firms to say if you want something a little different we're happy to to come out for something a little different you say who the third firm was or was UMass columns column Center at UMass what was I didn't see any private sector experience at all in either of the um proposals I'm TR to dig them up here that disappointing the uh app strategies has some people they haven't they don't haven't been assigned a heavy Ro but they do have some people in the office that are private that have come from the private sector wasn't the let propos a more comprehensive which date did you send that out I'm sorry I'm having a hard time digging up the email at the second I'm sorry what what was the date you sent us those requests um the it was in your packet oh was in the packet you sent it to previously though I thought maybe maybe I misread that okay and if you would find it helpful we could have a couple of you do a meet me and ask questions a quick interview if that is something that you would find helpful obviously we're anxious to give it underway just because um we're hoping that we can Implement some of the recommendations as part of this budget cycle you all seem to be looking at things yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to sort this out here because in the in the packet not sure we've got a lot of these names are the same Community paradigm they're the same ones for the uh you just yeah the same on it's a different different group and the other one is is the capital strategic Solutions right so about 10,000 and one about 20, 21,000 yeah yeah like I said they're both willing to the one who has few hours is willing to put more hours on the table if you want a deeper dive and the one that proposed a deeper dive is willing to do a shallow dive a more shallow dive and shave off some dollars you know they they prefer they think it's best to do the comprehensive um and do you have any experience with either of these groups personally I mean in your professional career I I haven't used um either one in the past I I I know the players just from [Music] other just from other things I've been involved in um like I said they they're retired managers of they retired in the last five years I've known them for quite a number of years just in the profession um what would your preference be I mean I think both would do a very inredible job I'm confident in that um bottom line question for me is do we want the more comprehensive to start or not and I as I said I I have gone back and wor of my head what's the downside of being comprehensive $10,000 well the amount of time so we have a grant for 80 185 so we're talking the the net number so so one we don't pay anything $1,500 to the town is that what we're saying versus no money 2,000 3,000,000 whatever the difference $3,000 I would go comprehensive yeah and I just like I said if if the um I'm interested in whichever company will also consider you know more um Private Industry best practices not just Municipal because when you're talking about efficiency the government's not the best source of right Lessons Learned there so I I I want a little infusion of you know uh someone who's been in Private Industry so if if that's capital then that would be my preference um I also think it's different it's nice to get a different perspective from the people who are doing the recruitment for the Town Administrator too get a because the town the the people who are the Paradigm they're doing the Town Administrator recruitment they're going to learn a lot anyway during the their interviewing process um I'm sure we can learn some lessons from that and getting a different company to do the operational audit they'll give us a completely different perspective perhaps know just a thought um um I think this one is up to you John yeah a name and what was the differential 2,000 bucks okay no no no the differential is 10,000 we have $18,000 Grant um which will pay for all but 3,000 3,000 of the most more expensive and all of the less expensive and we have to get some money back uh yeah but the net number differential to us is $2,000 the most yeah two or three and and and to Kathy's point I think you can learn more with a different guy okay so that's the guy Capital strategic solution so all right so I'll make a motion that the board approved to enter into a contract with capital strategic solutions to perform the operational audit second okay um Jeff sure Brian yes Kathy yes I say yes John says yes hey we got the okay okay um administrator at this point it's right page um you already talked about tobacco regulations um we talked about briefly Ocean Street we did not get that Grant we that for me to talk about what next steps might be um you can Che that up for next meeting um I'm sorry so we are going to discuss that at the next meeting yeah can yeah yeah um uh just a little bit of update a lot of comments questions concerns about um the mon by Rock and the access off of C Street um there there is no curve cut granted um and what they are constructing on site um Falls within the parameters of what you're allowed to do um so if if if they wish to have a circut they need to come back to us and the DPW director will will put that request to the planning board as a as a special permit request um so that's the process that it would follow um so the U so suppose they don't come back and actually request it but just do it that's what I think the concern of the so then there would be an enforcement action taken so I think Chuck said he would just curve it right over anyway so the enforcement action would be triggered by what um if they try to use it on a permanent basis is there actually Cur a curve there that's what my question there is no actual curve yeah okay my point though is what triggers the enforcement action other than a neighbor complaining will the building inspector go over there and look on his own or does he have to wait for somebody to complain to his office he can initiate um I should have phrased that definely will he um so it'll prob most likely wait until construction is finished okay um depending on what the building inspector will allow for temporary construction work that's a judgment call we don't we don't issue official um access points for construction on occasion the building inspector will allow a property owner to go you know get on to their property for construction purposes but that is very different than than a curb cut in a driveway in Access I'm very concerned that they will have established by using it for construction they will have established a de facto case that it is in fact safe right because they're using it and they haven't had an accident I believe my conversations with Chuck is that when he grants this they'll be required to have detail work there they'll be right okay right so dway all the time pay for a cop to be there full time you know I mean that uh I don't think that DPW has a problem with B instructions access it's not a DPW issue what he's saying but what he's saying is that the point there will be uh reg there'll be strict criteria to continue to use it as a uh construction only site and not a defacto driveway or curve cut how do we know when they're done if the enforcement would be triggered by the completion of the project uh certificate occupancy so certificate of occupancy okay this would be the trigger for looking at the property okay that's I'm just trying to understand process so if there are further concerns about legal issues I think we should hold that for um a different a a different venue okay I'm sorry we we interrupted your report with yes I'm good okay in that case um I move that we enter into an executive session for mgl chapter 30A section 21 A3 to discuss strategy we reflect the litigation if the chair declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigating position of public body and not to return to open session um you you may off session for a minut depending on what you decide and in that case um it just depends on your deliberations um so you could wait until the next meeting to make that any decisions public let's let's leave open the possibility that we do it tonight since we're all sitting here so let me with withdraw that motion and move instead that we enter into executive session for mgl chapter 38 section 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to litigation if the chair declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigating position of the public body second Jeff yes Brian yes Kath yes and says yes John yes okay in which case you can shut down s Debbie away close the door way but they he can't go home no yeah no one go home because we may come back up if you keep the you have to keep the zoom you have to keep the zoom because we have to shut off the zoom re establish it establish yep I think should stay tuned don't help her Brian he's fully capable of helping stick around so would you explain to the gentleman outside what we're doing and we're ruining his life but that's the way it is keep keep him here keep him here because we may need I don't I don't but tell them will be very efficient I don't think it'll be long okay I think you probably heard that we should shut down the zoom now yeah we have to go we have to go back anyway even if we don't do anything I'm not restar zoom just to adjourn but believe the audience Greg's on this zo he