##VIDEO ID:GeM7EFqnVqQ## 6:30 call this meeting of the Manchester by the City Select board to order Jeff yes Brian yes Kathy yes and says yes says yes this meeting is being recorded um thank you I'm trying to avoid open meeting walk um the first item on our agenda as always these public comments on non-agenda items is there anyone in the room who has a public comment on a non-agenda item is there anyone okay the Chairman's report um is a commendation to the first the fire department who which had 12 members go to help um Middleton uh during the fires in October October and November um starting with l Chief J Hy Catherine Robin Robert Cavender Lieutenant Jonathan hle Lieutenant KY Crosby firefighter Eric junker um I'm sorry if I'm ruining anybody's name um firefighter William Kenyan uh Shane firefighter Shane Stevenson firefighter Michael going firefighter Philip C Kayla firefighter Richard Curran firefighter SRA King and firefighter Joseph sanilo um the mutual Aid between the fire departments um on the NorthShore is critical to the safety of all of us and I would like everyone to give a hand to the firefighters who I would also like to mention that um in this past week our police and and fire amulance um dealt with one of the most serious crimes I have heard of in Manchester in many many years um and they broke up a kidnapping um everyone was safe afterward um a it was it was espousal kidnapping and um small child was retrieved and um so all of you who were involved um in in sorting out that unfortunate incident thank you very much than um why don't we go ahead why postpone the action items until we have done this signing in for again again thank you everyone for coming tonight um this a momentous occasion in in office's career I think I've said this before um so tonight we're here to swear on officer Kevin David as our newest full-time police officer uh even though these ceremonies are short but like I said they're important in an officer's career and uh recognizes the officer uh as he starts his career for the town so since May of 2021 officer David has served the town as a reserve police officer and he comes very highly recommended from other agencies um officer dve is a graduate of Triton Regional High School in 2016 uh currently holds a Bachelor of Science degree in criminal justice with a minor in Psychology from Westfield State University uh and he comes to us as a fully certified police officer through the post commission which was recently established in 2020 and through the the municipal police training confs Bridge Academy so at this time I'd like to ask Christine Dixon at New Town Clerk to come up and and Kevin's officer David to come up in the center for the the official oath of office repeat after me I Kevin David do solom me swear I Kevin David do solom me swear that I will Faithfully that I will faithfully and impartially and impartially discharge and perform discharge and perform all the duties incumbent on me all the duties incumbent on me as a police office officer for the town of Manchester by the Sea as a police officer of the town of Manchester by the Sea according to the best of my abilities according to the best of my abilities in accordance with the bylaws and accordance to the bylaws the town of Manchester by the Sea of the town of Manchester by the Sea the laws of the Commonwealth the laws of the Commonwealth and the Constitution of the United States in the Constitution of the United States congratulations thank you i' like to ask Kevin's mom to come up and do the official ceremony pinning of the police officer's bash black for allowing this to take a few minutes of be regular meeting for this ceren and that concludes the you thank you moment or two um is there anything the the action items are a list of things that we have agreed to discuss at some time in the future start each meing by going over the to make sure that we're touching on the things that we've agreed to and that um and add things that we think we need to talk about in the future are there comments on again on the action items um I think we talked about at a future meeting we we have a deadline around the um shortterm rental policy do we remember if we establish a firm date by when we wanted to um visit that I know we established a little uh task force for we we started to started to the planning board thought that they should handle it oh they're going to handle it okay so we don't have any action on that at this time just to keep track keep try yeah okay so we may want to put it on the action item list just um because if we're we can do an update first of February second meeting in February maybe okay a chance to and then the only other thing is um I wasn't sure where the water bands stood if we need to revisit that given all the precipitation hasn't lifted the critical designation yet okay so we're still maybe another week or so they might washing well good okay in that case um we need ready for a motion ready for a motion okay I move the select board open the public tree here second discussion ja yes Brian yes Kathy yes answer yes Johnn yes okay um a public tree hearing for Three Trees is yes yes so we have representatives in the from the friends of trees and our town tree Mor and um we live at the park extension okay um Tom um we starting with the three pine trees why don't we start with the three pine trees okay um yeah I my understanding is this is on the to piece of land or right away where utilities I've looked at the trees they're probably third or fourth growth white pine trees 50 to 75 years of age growing normally is the way they do in a natural Woodland setting even though they're very close to the edge of the road and uh it's very difficult with white PS to tell their over morall helps most of the growth is at the top refer to as a lion taale that's normal for the way they excuse me have a I don't have anything just a little normal dryness and Nas that I get uh anyway uh hard to tell what's going on inside these trees there could be a lot of things issues with them uh I see uh many broken off branches it could be confid an in my major con concerned uh normally those trees if they do break they don't fall over the tops come out of them Etc but my concern would be the cutting of the roots immediately adjacent to their trunks where they want to trench their utility conduit and bring you and that would really set the trees back and bring about their demise and if it has to be done uh I wouldn't feel comfortable with big trees like that near my house uh I don't know sentiment I I did talk to the man who who was doing the development I brought him there but I didn't talk get a chance to talk to the neighbors but um anyway yeah that's my okay pretty much my feeling on the trees in natural Woodland trees white pine trees uh very hard for me to really evaluate the condition because of it's so high up any of the damage to them thank you um we have a very long agenda tonight so I am going to ask when people speak that they limit themselves to two minutes I'm going to ask John if he would do some timing for us just to make sure I will thank you um is there anyone does anyone on the board have comments I guess a question a um is it the condition of the trees that we're concerned about or concerned about because somebody wants to build a utility trench near the trees and we're concerned about disturbing them that's why they want to do that no you don't get to speak until I tell you to speak sorry um Tom what I I'm sorry my question is is the is the concern about the health of the trees themselves or concern about someone digging near them and unsettling them yeah well you know what I do is I evaluate the health of the tree as a as I can see it I did put in that bra that that little bit about that will certainly injure these trees be they healthy be they sick Whatever Whenever you trench trees I guess my question is what precipitated the this coming on our agenda did someone look at the trees and say they look sick or did someone say hey we're going to be digging a trench near here and we're concerned about disturbing them I'm just not sure what we're talking about I think it's the lad but okay okay and so the White Pines um they have very shallow roots Tom correct okay personal I I'm not a tree expert but my own personal experience is that one time I had a bunch of trees cleared near my house so they wouldn't fall on my house but it Disturbed the roots of the other pine trees and that you know within a few months one of them fell on my house when I did not get rid of I'm very concerned about I just want to understand how close this trench is and Tom you know can you you know yeah well the trees are in a triangle probably I can see that six feet apart on each each apex of the triangle and my understanding is that that trench will pass within two or three feet of those trees right through the center of them or immediately A J I think we have a plan here I think Jody brought someone has a plan of the lot exactly the trench is going relation and I guess my question would be Tom in order to ensure that the tree roots are not Disturbed or unsettled in your professional opinion how far away from these three trees you know where would we want to limit the disturbance like what's the diameter of the area further away the better they were hard with decision trees were deep rooted there surface roots that could be led in here to be honestly I would if it were my own house I wouldn't want the trees there if I were you know but I certainly always like to see trees replaced right whenever trees are removed right if a couple of screening small ever greens were planted there I think you know I unfortunately like I say I didn't get a chance to talk to the immediate about it and their concerns but maybe after we hear their concerns um I think is there anyone here from the people who are asking to have the trees taken down yes hi hi um just give us your name and address and give us a short description of why what you want done and what okay my name is Johanna Ross my address is one windir Park extension these three trees are basically in the front of our property um and we are digging a trench to provide utilities to a back lot that goes behind our house um and the trees how they stand today um like there's been talk of today like the roots I think that we're concerned about them falling and doing whatever if we're digging a trench would also be easier for us to dig the trench if the trees were not there and we didn't have to worry about them we're willing to pay to have the trees come down um you know a cost to us and the I think what is one thing that hasn't been brought up tonight is that there is you the power lines are also right near those trees and so um I I would say that and I don't know if Tom agrees but that the power lines are also of a concern um as it is today looking at how the trees have grown and how the power line is very low already but it's it's in that vicinity um which is I think worrisome for the rest of the neighborhood in terms of the power source so thank you I'm happy to answer any other questions or give you more details but I'll stay to the the minute two minute yes please um they you need to tell us your name and your address yes they already tell them your name and your address Miriam Moss mhm at three windir Park extension they already took down uh a whole big row of beautiful beautiful red burning bushes Hut ones and some of them my husband uh planted them and uh at the time I don't know if he knew that that was Town property or we thought it was our property I guess them but they they're stripping everything away from that area it's so there and it was so beautiful before thank you yes sir also to add to it Matthew Coles three windir Park extension M Ross is not being truthful totally okay first of all with the pictures that I have put in to the um if you look at some of them with the trees you cannot go straight back because we own some of the trees that are on that property when they did there's a problem with the survey that there's going to be very soon a lawsuit between us and the Rosses where they say basically we don't own anything on the right side of our property which we there trees that we clearly own the trees that they took down one tree of ours and they took some of the branches they've damaged you cannot put power lines and um water line straight through because of our trees you know our bushes and everything unless the town wants to in a domain and I we're not going to we'll fight that if that happens but there's clearly it's one thing for them to be able to take their own trees down there's nothing we can do about that but they took down a tree and a bush that that was on Town property that the town allowed us to have on there because it added value to the town's property that's why they allowed it okay and then that we have AR trees on our property and for the for the plans which we now notice cut into our property they're saying they own part of our property so unfortunately there is going to be a lawsuit over that very soon that you can't go straight back there's no way you can put power lines straight back and you run in our property now the trees are in perfect condition they look fine they would what the actually the tree that's damaged is the one on our property it's got a lot of an holes and I've asked them to come look at it and everything you know hopefully we don't have to take it down but it is but the other ones there's no holes in them they look fine I looked at them in fact you can look at the pictures if you want there's pictures of them right right there so there's no reason to take them down the Town owns that that property they look beautiful they provide shade for our house they're not on the Ross's property they're not anywhere closer actually closer to our property 30 seconds can up okay so the evidence is right there if you want to take a look at all but thank you um yes so I just have a comment about Jody Morris 11 Jersey Lane and I have friends in Manchester trees and we care a lot about trees as everybody knows and we would like to save any trees that we can save but my understanding is that these are Town trees they are on a utility easement and our town tree policy specifically allows the select board to make a decision on removing trees that are that are interfering with utilities so there's a survey issue in lawsuit I don't know anything about that all I'm saying is that this is a utility easement that is owned by the town I guess I don't know um and somebody needs to use that and it's going to damage the trees then there's a good reason to allow those trees to be taken down I would add that friends of Manchester trees we're in the business of planting trees so if there's another place to plant a tree either at three windir park or somewhere else on that street we are happy to do that and we we do that at no cost to the hom right do you know anything about the ownership of questions of of property well I think you further down the line that's something that I don't think we need to get involved with okay um but in terms of the trees that are in question it's very clear that that is within the town utility eastand okay and that those are clearly the three trees in question I don't think there's any question about who um whose owners who they belong to so they are Town trees they are town so it's your your jurisdiction for these three you know further down the the right way if if there's a dispute about where that line lies that's something that the two owners are gonna have to work out right um is there any possibility of rerouting the um utility trench I I I can't tell looking at this how wide anything is right um I mean is there a possibility that we require I guess the question is that I have is in order to do the utility work that the homeowners need to have done is there any way to avoid disturbing the utilities that are very close to these trees because that like I said I have a personal bias here I think it's very risky um I just don't know the answer to that question that becomes a much more complicated we're talking among the board so I I have a question I assume that this this utility it's a utility trench it's going to be under underground lines and it's coming from the utility pole well there's also water and sew yeah water sewer I mean I'm looking at the trees and I I see the picture on the three trees and there's a utility pole next to that and I assume that's the origin where are the utility line goes after it gets 10t or 20 feet away from the trees maybe that's a property jurisdiction issue but it's not a tree issue but uh right around there's also water and sewer and gas which are which are right next to the trees there right they're in the same area in the same area I mean the telephone pole is kind of amidst The Three Trees right I if I look at that right next to you know it's within I guess 10 feet of them but I guess the trench is expected to go straight through and I assume that is driven by the property line confinements correct and falling within the existing easement for the utilities you can't take a left turn or a right turn correct in order to to make that left or right hand turn you would need new easements okay so obviously the homes that have been built have been built with that with the knowledge of that easement being where it is so it's it's a bit of a complicated process to relocate the E so just add something Jeff can so we could say remove the trees but with the stipulation that we're going to replant something more appropriate you could yes then I've dealt with white pines and had serious problems so I know they get loaded with snow and winds and they end up on cars and houses the sound of a crack while you're sitting 10 feet away from it is frightening don't ask me how I I've been through it um so yeah I mean that kind of makes sense to me but my feeling is OD that we have a policy free a utility you know e and think you know I'm I'm set debate this any for can I just add some information this okay first of all the original plan stated that the power lines and everything were going to go down the Ross's property if you look at it they have a trench like an opening where they drive all their construction trucks and everything else that's where originally in the plans which are in those pictures were're supposed to be going through this area under their property not under that second the argument about branches on the power lnes they can very easily cut the branches we on our tree that's on our property that's in front of our property it's on the town the town property kind of goes in a weird box like from our property over to the Ross's property in a diagonal box that tree had everything hanging on like ly weaves hanging on the power lines and the town came and they just they had National GD come and they cut the winds and everything so they very easily can do that that argument doesn't hold water because National Grid can very easily come into the power L we talking I mean the trees on the power yeah well that's talking well they can cut the branches so for them to use the argument about branches on the power lines it's they always do yeah that's that argument doesn't hold War cuz a town tree they just came back in October and cut power cut the branches thank you I thinkk you you've made your point but these are underground utilities we're talking about the branch is are just a Nary issue right concerned about the disturbance water sewer and gas that's what the concern is disturbing The Roots think a broken Branch versus a broken gas liner um yeah okay um um so are we going to talk about both let let's talk about one at a time we have to close the public hearing or I'm just I'm asking procedural questions Greg because we opened a public hearing on trees so why don't we take up the second tree just asking yep go ahead this is this is fine the second tree do yeah the second tree is a Norway n I'm not sure if we planted it but it's a what we call a double leader with included Trunks and definitely has hotwood rot I would consider it a safety issue and I can understand it's it's in Decline I can understand they're concern with a tree it's very very close to two houses uh that have a very maybe only 10 ft apart it's right in the middle in the corner up there and it's on the weather side of build where it's a Norway maple uh basil damage in the root flare just uh like there again maybe they'll allow us to plant a small flowering piece something here more suitable for the location but the trees in decline in very bad health and I consider also a hazard tree to their property um does anyone the board have questions for Tom does anyone in audience online questions about this or want to make a comment this yes please name hi I'm Ellen Flatley of 23 Lincoln Street the um where the where the tree is located I'm here with my mother um the the property owner um the history of this tree it was a town tree that was planted about 50 years ago it was planted it was this little tiny tree smaller than my brother now it's much taller than our house it has I don't think we ever thought it would B Be I wasn't this happen but this is what I hear we never thought it would grow that tall um it does cause um you can clearly see that it is sick um and it does also cause um extensive Moss to grow on our porch roof that we're going to probably have to replace that roof um and some lyan growing on the side um so we appreciate Tom I if if he's good with it we're good with it and also just to say to the Friends of the trees we are of course willing to have a smaller tree planted in that um there's some beautiful examples on L Lincoln Street of smaller following trees that we would love to have in its place um are we ready to close I move that the select board close the evidentiary portion of the hearing second John yes and says yes Kathy yes yes Brian okay um on the first request which is the removal of the three time um is there a motion I move that we uh remove that three pine trees the wind of your extension second can I amend that motion sure to with the stipulation that something more appropriate will be reled accepted further Amendment for the advice friends the trees okay accepted discussion by the vard John yes says yes yes says yes Brian yes and yes thank you all for coming we have done second yeah um okay is there a motion with regard to three3 I I move that we uh move maple tree at second figure uh yes Jeff says yes Brian yes Kathy yes and says yes John yes okay thank you all very much close the public hearing the board close the public tree hearing Jeff yes ran yes Kathy yes thanks [Music] the next item is the c administ recruit so we have with us tonight John petan from Community Paradise Associates John is heading up the recruiting effort and is really here to say hello and just give a quick overview of of the process and take questions that you may have great it it might be better if he angled slightly sideways so that yeah TV Land can see TV Land can see you land again not too far back because okay so um me just for those people who are um tuning it yeah right um who are maybe watching this in review um Greg will be leaving us next year and it is time for to find a replacement um and we have the town has hired a firm to find as good a replacement as possible please go ahead great thank you madam chair uh John peton Community Paradigm uh so I'll be the lead person relative to uh the search process there be several people involved uh in this process so um our principal in the first firm uh Bernie Lynch uh Bernie is a retired city manager out of low and was a town manager in Chums for 20 years um I'm retired out of town of Burlington Town Administrator I was 40 years um in municipal government about 35 as a Town Administrator uh during that time so I've been working about five years since my retirement in 2019 with the firm and doing searches of this nature so first we want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to work with you uh here in Manchester B and um we've already started so I've been in town a couple of days now met with several folks uh our department heads and we're getting the various pieces of information we need to to develop the position statement so you've seen the samples you know what we put together so we'll put together that position statement and uh we'll use that as our advertising tool so what we're looking at we worked with Greg to have a schedule that works for the Town based on his retirement date so we're looking at basically having a position statement out at you know probably mid January which is good timing because the MMA will have uh they now call it connect 351 um I guess I'm not allowed to say annual meeting anymore but connect 351 um will be um occurring uh towards the end of January both uh Mr Lynch myself will be there so it's an opportunity to see a lot of people face to face I was at the recent manager meeting uh talking to a couple people already so we have our you know um you know are uh talking to some folks at this point in time so with that um uh the app will be due uh in February and then we'll meet with the screening committee um which you'll be addressing in January we'll meet and work with the screening Committee in the February uh March time frame uh to review the applicants and to interview uh applicants again the screening committee will make the decisions we're not choosing you know uh candidates for you we're recruiting candidates the screen committee will review uh we'll have interviews and they'll um their charge will be to develop a list of finalists to bring to uh the select board we're looking um at this point in the April time frame uh to have interviews uh before the select board uh for finalists that will give an opportunity um uh to uh work on the appointment the contract procedure uh you know with the new candidate and uh potential notice that any candidate has to give if they're working you know as a manager simply s which can be up to two months um um can be up to three months but typically it's a 60-day notice in uh many communities um so that will be ready for a a very smooth transition uh for when Greg's looking at retirement so that's the process in a nutshell uh you've received an email from me um last week and I've asked uh that you contact me a couple of you have waiting for a couple more you know um if you can contact me to try to set up a one-on-one with myself and also involved um with this will be Jen lefors uh Jen is a the communications expert you had her information um uh in uh the package and uh Jen will be assisting with the writing and a position statement but we'd like to talk to you individually about what are the characterist characteristics you're seeking you know in a town manager what are some of your goals the goals of the town uh and the board and we also like to understand what the projects um and I've been getting that and talking with the various department heads with Greg and Greg sent me some information um uh as to that so we try to pull all that together um uh between Bernie and myself we'll be talking to candidates and it's good for me to understand all this as I'm talking to candidates because people want to know is it a good POS you know is it a good fit for them um I'm trying to you know uh you know work with you as to a good fit for the town but it has to be a good fit for the candidate and candidates want to know can I be successful you know uh going forward and that's my role is to talk about that you know with them going through um so that's the process going on it'll be a little bit challenging because of location location is you know like in the old real estate term uh you know it's it's you know that's that's very important and your location where you are right now we say we look at almost a 45 minute you know uh um uh commuting area people aren't moving you know necessarily for jobs you know uh in the market of today uh so again we'll be working uh to do that we you know we talk to a lot of folks on a regular basis both Bernie and I are involved with the MMA suffi program we see a lot of people through that um had somebody in a class not too long ago um student student absolutely you're a little star on your refrigerator too she survived the day with me let's let's put it that way yes um so um so we talked to a lot of folks and and but that's that's pretty much the nutshell I know you've got a heavy agenda tonight so I could talk about this for a long time but I'll turn it over to the board you know as any questions you may have um of me on the process yeah yeah uh good good to meet you uh John I think I was on a telecon with you was it about a month ago or something like that uh I've got a couple of questions one let me just start off the first question would be what is a typical tenure now for a manager in the past say five or 10 years we've had a very good run with uh was it 10 years I think okay I assume that's probably at the outer edge but tell me what should our expectations be with the person that we're the minimum we look for is three years but that's not you know that's the minimum what we talk about is five years years if you can see five years with a person um you know going forward that's very good um you know it it it it fluctuates with time you know as to right now things have been difficult in areas the last couple of years there been a lot of turnover uh in the last five years um it was very quiet a little bit earlier this year in the last three months it seems like it's picked up a lot with turnover um but typically I would say five to seven years you know is probably a good time frame uh to look at I know it maybe it's a function of the age of the person that you have and is this a a Whistle Stop or is this it yeah there's various pieces and and it depends on again the fit that comes in in the end you know um Greg was a good fit here um you know you look at you know I did 13 years in one Community seven in my last so um it's different pieces as to what occurs well as a followup to that you sent us a long list of the folks that you had recruited in a number of communities yes and I checked it over and there were four towns where you recruited in like 2020 or 2021 and then the town showed up again two years later that's correct okay so I understand that's on the short end of things uh and I'm just curious um was there something that kind of came through with all of those maybe they all had different situations as to why they turned over so quickly we don't want to be on that list twice so a lot of times it's how's the board working with the administrator uh the board can turn over so sometimes you know it brings a different feel you know what's going on um and um you know sometimes people are lucky to have right now in in you know Massachusetts as a whole there's been more turnover in you know uh select boards and you don't get as much consistency or continuity you know from that side that can have an effect um uh sometimes it's you know you're hiring someone who's um you know looking for the next step you know quicker you know uh some communities realize they're not paying so that you know they if they can get someone for three years that's a good run maybe for them that's not the norm but that can be a good run I think it's you got to look at each situation I understand the board's expectations that maybe some board say we got a guy I hope we can hold him three years I don't think that's what this board is going no I I get that and you're in a better position you know Greg and I have talked about that you know especially with the pay situation and so on you look at that and uh some of the you know the things that are going on this is a good Community um having somebody um you know coming out who's had a dozen years you know um you know in the slot that helps um and people will say stability seems like it's good so um you've had you know other people your police chief has you know been with the community you know a very long time you look at some of that with department heads and people will see it's a good Community um uh you know potentially uh sign up with okay I certain have questions when I meet with you but I'll refer to my colleagues um no I guess my just the overall process when do we need to uh finalize the steering committee um screening committee excuse me so by the end of January at the latest so I'm hoping by your second meeting okay and I saw that you mentioned it briefly in your letter in the cricket but I haven't seen any promotion of really time encourage people to come forward um like the at large residents we talked about um let me make sure Tiffany is getting that out yeah I the only thing I have seen is the your letter your column in the cricket that's the only mention I've seen thank you no I think that uh as we develop uh I know that the biggest challenge we have is 10 years worth of infrastructure and projects we've got 50 years of I'm we're not going to call it neglect but certain other areas were more important and now we're facing uh the can has been kicked all the way to the end of the road now and so I think that if we're looking at 10year projects everyone else say the same thing is that someone who's going a has got project oriented but also has ability who's not looking for this as a pit stop sure all right uh I look at Manchester sometimes as a place where people want to end their careers or they want to start their careers right and I think we're looking for someone who wants to enhance the career for you know a long period of time that's the biggest concern I have and that's what I've been hearing to facilities and stuff so we'll be highlighting uh the um the facil the need for a Facilities Review you know going forward so that'll be highlighted in position statement we did just Rec have a facility you have one but's that we did recently have a facility yes that's my understanding but it's it's now trying to implement something um I mean I just we'll have to see how this unfolds but eventually we want to get down to three candidates so what what's the timeline looking at that where we want to be then so again that'll be the April time frame um we'll be looking at you know it it'll be up to the screening committee three to four you know unless you send a direction um we say three or four candidates you know um at that point to bring to the um to the select board for final interview so want to be at least by April yes April works well um and um at this point that's what we're looking at based on the time frame um our biggest issue tends to be getting people together you know um uh um screening committee members uh because they'll you know getting schedules together is is difficult sometimes so that's why um you getting it in January then we can try to work up a schedule that they can all agree to um for interviews okay um you mentioned some towns are unable to hold on to people because they don't pay much how is our pay range I think it's um um reviewed it uh with Greg I think it's um uh it's reasonable you know so it'll be in the market uh to look in this area so you'll see later tonight that I on a recommendation to have a salary Reserve fund not only for this position in case it's needed but other adjustments that may come out of the operations office so you'll see that later this evening when we talk about the the way we do it is we put it in saying a a number on the salary with a plus a minus you know and then if you've got that candidate you know that you you know you would you know really like to negotiate forth that will be your decision you know at that time uh to make a lot of times you will be as you bring on somebody new it's just the nature of the process it'll depend on of experience that I mean that's not necessarily true it's not Universal that's why we put the you know we don't want to you know um we want to make sure the process is sp both ways you know with that so that's why we work a plus or minus on a number and then that's you know that's your negotiating position you know in the end and um as as to where it can be would your screening interviews be um live or no that's all confidential so the only when the process goes through the only uh what I mean live I mean in person that's up to the committee so um um we offer it I I I do whatever the committee wishes you know if they want you're comfortable doing it by Zoom we still do a few Zoom here and there mostly live now but we did three years of almost all Zoom um so we have the capacity to do that so that's up to the committee um I offer it to the committee as to how they want to do it do you have anything that you need to tell us that we haven't asked about uh no I think um again this was just a more of a broad you know overview discussion uh tonight um I'll be back to and I'll work through usually the chair and the administrator as to when we're ready in April as to you know the process how you want to proceed with your process you know at that time so we'll talk about that you know uh when it comes a little bit closer um you know on that and make some suggestions you know um on the process at that point um but I think we're good at this point so again if um um if the rest of you can just respond to mea we can get your you know have you know the opportunity to have a quick discussion over the next week or so um you know with um uh all of you so that we get that as well and certainly be you know willing to have any level of discussion you know and answer any more questions you may have but again we'll be asking you uh questions about U the community but again we've been in um uh today and spent you know a day here couple um last week or the week before and you know talking to folks and we're gathering information so that the candidates will have that um so when they receive our position statement it's hyperlink you know you know so that they can find information about the community so that they're prepared coming into it okay great yeah same here so we'll be talking again great thank you thank you thanks the next article on our agenda um is to review an approve I hope we're not required to approve no it does not violate meeting because frankly possibly approve um I don't usually start with a long discussion from me I'm going through this time because the first time I got involved with Harbor with IGN of boat wars was with the uh inspector General's report on favoritism and private gain in the assignment of boat wars and I think we have agreed generally that we're not so worried about private gain but I am very worried about favoritism um and um this is the regulations as presented by the haror advisory committee would work very well as long as we have uh honorable people on all sides but the purpose of regulations is to control the behavior of people who who aren't honorable and I am very concerned that the boat jards could use War the wars that they at for um to reward good customers and I I think that is not the way a harbor should work other Harbors work that way but I don't think that's the way I want to see Manchester work and um to that end I'm going to suggest that I spend some time between now and our next meeting and come up with what I think would be would reflect the opinion of this committee and I I have heard everyone I don't agree with everyone that's okay I can put down I can represent other people's views and I will put together something that I think would keep uh a a less than a greedy Bo from for example saying okay you're the first one on your on the list I don't want you so it's $9,000 a year and charge something different and to be neither Boer I have checked Manchester Marine they do not list their slip prices it's contact the boat sh and I don't think that's the way we want to [Music] handle so that's one aspect um it's also going to be important to make sure that the boats that are on these wars are actually the votes that were taken off the list so there isn't some substitution um and there are a few other odds and ends um so I would like you to give me the opportunity to put together a couple of paragraphs that's going to be longer than this that describe how commercial Wars um should work in Manchester what um what kind of timeline would you be looking at the next meeting or next meeting next meeting I would get it to you I hope a week before the next meeting so that you'd have a chance to look at it okay we can't we can't exchange email for obvious reasons right but I would I would like everyone to have a chance to uh just to touch on one of the PLL up points you say that NE the marina uh list their pricey you make as long as I'm not a big fan of government intervention okay or requirement of things however if it is actually uh it's a public private partnership was what this amounts to and we uh to to address that can we say this is the price or you're requ re them to tell us this is what the number we would require I would like to require them to tell us what they're going to charge in advance in advance advertise it as well yeah so that everybody knows what they should be expecting I guess normally it is our C I'm I'm kind of in agreement with you and these guys know what slips cost oh they're in the business and they can put a number and give it to give it to buy just say he can the other the other element that I did not mention is I think it's important that B on identify the Harbor Master identify theat and not have theard go down the list no no no yeah I think we agre last absolutely you're on the same okay okay um a consensus on it we have we have five minutes before the next meeting for the next um no we don't they got five in that in that case um I will take that as a consensus I will get um descri a potential regulation out to you um between Christmas and New Year's yeah as long as we have enough time yeah okay then um sorry yeah uh I apparently can't move um is that one of the requirement the job yeah in order right affordable housing trust update Madam chair thank you John poach chairperson of the affordable housing trust here with muffin Peggy Sarah I believe um Gretchen is probably she probably online yeah um when we met with you in August we departed with the understanding we'd come back um in a reasonable time to give you an update on activities so I see this as two part one um when we had a meeting in in August we left with the what we wanted you to understand is the importance of the Pres Street property as a as an asset to the town for the purposes of housing to help us move the the plan that we're working with the Housing Authority that involves Newport on the planes and and loading placees that's what we left you with and it was based on our very close work with a consultant who when he looked at the request for proposal and he looked at the sites says John trust members it's just not available land and he stressed that so we came to in August and said this is what we're doing this what we've learned what we left with is we have some challenges with land and we wanted you to just hear that from us so part of my our presentation here here is to see if there's been any further discussion on that but and I leave that with you the Ste on before we leave if you wanted to answer that'd be great but um my responsibility Now is really just to report back on what we've done I think there's been some positive developments since we met in August and I think the most positive is um me and fellow couple fellow committee members met on site with the concom met with Steve gang and it was very encouraging because we looked at the site he pointed we we sort of looked at areas we were possibly considering for development and he was talk pointing out the wetlands delineation um we went to a spot that when we actually did our proof of concept study five years ago it's the same location it's on the other side if you're if you're on Pine Street going out of town and you just just go right past the mha there the two private homes there's a there's a trail going towards the back there there's a significant amount of mha property right there when Steve looked at that you know he just he he felt like it was quite reasonable so it's very preliminary but that gave me assurance that what we're talking about at Newport isn't a pip dream that we could possibly do something on that second thing is we uh piggyback with the town that was working on a survey um it was a very limited scope of survey with more in the back right we then got the survey team to do a survey of the entire site so we can get the exact location and equally significant we'll see points of interest on the site t a typical survey and my my understanding as I summarize for folks is that the the field work is done on that and we should see a survey by late December um and what we hope to do is use that to do guide as we're trying to formulate a plan but more importantly I think is to give a sense to any a developer who be responding to a a forthcoming developer request for proposals at the same time we then still on that plan of of working with the mha we've got a survey in the works right now at the PLS that's something we didn't have we got some question about land boundaries we'll that we'll have that completed sometime in in January I think that'll be positive I think again that's something we'll be able to make available to a developer there would like to see what the meets and Bounds are you know so when they're formulating a location of buildings they'll have something that's that's that that's quite real um we I've continued conversations with the um I was going to say the sale and Housing Authority but it's really the Marblehead Housing Authority but they're working with the administrator out of the Salem housing authority um Marblehead has got a similar type of plan that we're proposing it's the public housing authority but they want to create new units and it possibly rehab so we've learned we've had some conversations where they looked at our request for proposal and they said John I think you should do this differently I think you should do this differently uh they introduced us to the developer who was the designated developer spoke to designated developer who who talked about uh possible State financing sources that we were a little unsure on but he he gave us the impression that with the new state Bond bill that came in well I think within the last year there some avenues that that hadn't really existed that could be potential sources of income that could Finance uh as a subsidy the typ of the development that that that we're looking at um I think that's it for that plan I think um housing Housing Trust has met on two occasions in executive session and we've we're examining possible purchase of a Manchester by the SE property uh we've gone to the point where we've done an appraisal of it and then I think our meeting tomorrow night we're going to be an executive session again on that matter but we'll also have a a a subsequent property another property that we'll be discussing tomorrow night possibly pursuing so those are two possible properties in town um I think good news for everyone is hasn't happened yet but um I've worked very closely with Northshore CDC to really refire the the application for the 29 units at powderhouse to get the state to focus on getting as many that are Income eligible on the state Shi was that back and forth uh had turnover here Northshore CDC had turnover the unfortunately sort of languished but we've got um Town planner here we got the portable Housing Trust we have Northshore CDC that are laser focus on this I just met with Mark today we're this close to getting back to this state mark the town planner uh gave a resubmittal about three weeks ago the state got back to us immediately saying where is this document where is this document we've address that so I think we'll be in a position probably hopefully in a couple days where we can say our application is with the state and now we could sort of do our little push to the state to say how about it I'll give a quick summary that we closed out the um our little covid program Peggy can talk about that if you want um where we assisted Town residents for rental and um Mortgage Assistance it's probably one of the best um examples of a trust within the Commonwealth getting involved immediately to help residents that were that were hurt by covid we give a summary that we serve 48 households we put out about 178,000 over about three or four year period um but I think that's and you heard this speaker talk at the town meeting to support the MBTA so we we met we took up the matter we voted to support the the warrant and I was the representative to talk on the affordable hous and Trust behalf yeah so question so you're looking at a couple of houses that you may purchase here in town correct properties okay excuse me properties properties in town cost a lot of money what you got like15 million do is that leveraged somehow or because because the money will go pretty fast and something like that unless you have a partner yeah I I agree um we can only go so far I think we would use it as leverage with it could be Northshore CDC it could be lights I mean they could take the lead and put acquisition money but but with the understanding that we are there as a partner and we we we know the source of funds that we we have it's not unusual for a a town or an affordable housing trust who play that role with with a private developer whether it's nonprofit or for-profit okay and they have monies through I don't you know either State programs I don't know that they have investors probably not but they've got State programs that you can leverage the money okay um I don't really have anything second I think more of an update yes you're welcome the question um I think last time we talked about uh the need for this board to make a decision about um Pleasant Street dou site so um given these other avenues is that still an urgent need I'm seeing shaking heads yeah okay so then my question to um um Greg is where are we with the testing that the DPW was doing on the School Street site to know if we could move so that's that's just getting underway now okay when will we know I guess is um um probably the February time time frame in February we have at least a much better sense of what's possible what's possible and Kathy in response to your point I don't want to leave the select board with the impression that when they say had good news on Newport that we were adding I think it was an affirmation that what we were hoping for and assuming is possible and we got that word so we there wasn't any that act didn't create any net new units it really just Steve confirmed for us that you know it seems like it's a reasonable plan but we still need to have a discussion and a decision around what we do with Pleasant Street the Lynch pin right now is waiting for this survey on School Street to be completed or testing I should say not a geot geotesting yeah we need to understand what we can do on that site before we know what's what we can free up on on Pleasant okay so February okay if you've been very busy trying um J affordable housing thank you for the work keeping people in their houses um through Co that was really important to those 48 households and I was not aware you were doing that and you benefited greatly by an anonymous contribution from a town member who probably put in probably over 100,000 of that 178 maybe even more than that and my organization administered the program at no cost of the town I run a nonprofit actioning so we operated the program with no admin charge no anything we did it at no cost thank you um good luck with with the properties and and especially um getting the fous lane properties onto the Shi there are a lot of people who put money into that and and we'll be gratified when finally it begins to do do some yeah Peggy and I really got involved in that the last month or so and we've kept in touch with Greg so as we move Greg will be the first okay let make us the second if anything a signature app thank you thank you everybody for your work um I like me to call order yes please oh yes please um oh the booer Oh okay that's on the list that's pretty that's fine um let's no um there's no reason to make you this and if you want joining something made it you made it clear that that it is within our purview to extend your license for New Year's Eve um and we were wondering if you could do us a favor um there is we're hoping to um do some work on the Culvert and we're waiting for a signature um so I gave I met with Chuck and um with my attor so he is just getting ready to going back and forth so as soon as my attorney says I should sign so unfortunately we haven't heard back from your attorney so little frustrating on our end so I apologize for that I will make sure I contact him this evening or in the morning and it so an alternative is is is to go ahead and sign the chapter 9 one and then work on the details of the easement language as a as a secondary step and that way it doesn't hold up the permitting process but it still protects all of your all of your rights so if be otherwise we're going to lose almost $6 million and um I I don't want to be around on that when that bridge fails I don't want to be so exactly instruction and I just protected and so what I heard was that you know they're going to remember me and my heart my wall well the S goes through but he doesn't want to put anything right so I just feel like what if something happens to me what if something happens to you know like it's we're happy to put it and so I just would it make sense Greg for you and you and Chuck to get together yeah I mean I like I I attended the be for almost like you know like five years ago seven years ago and Chuck knows what my concerns are you know what I mean and um but I don't know I don't want to lose six million dollar no but I don't want to lose my business you will if that bridge Falls and fails you but so I just I I just have counsel so if I have councel I just want my councel to tell me that it's okay to sign so I I if Greg if I'm understanding the conversation here there are two different things two different things there are two entirely different things there's the there's the chapter 91 is it permission permission to do so chapter 91 just needs a butter to say we they can proceed with their permitting process so it's what we need now is the a a permission to proceed with permitting process the secondary step is to work through you know how do we protect everybody financially blah that's secondary what we need right now is a the chapter 91 document signed and what's the deadline before we lose the $6 million yeah we're we're rapidly approaching it by mid January so well my wall I've been asking because they keep telling me it's really part of the project but I can't as a you know a late person I feel like I have a very difficult time seeing how that's not going to be destructive to my building and my business and my well my wellbeing and so I have approached people about red doing my wall but wanting to wait until this project is done so I've put it off waiting for this project to get done and then we had I every time I got Chuck literally for the past five years I've gone in and said like you know I want to make sure that this is part of this project that the wallain I know they're two separate things but I keep saying that's my car and he keeps and he's never Chuck has never come into the business he's never talked to Kevin py he never talked to any of the hairdresses like he's just like my businesses are worried about this and so we are all worried what are you worried about I'm worried about my building and I wanted I want to get I wanted that report and been asking him while you're doing this while we're getting the permit because if this is a difficult permit to get and I have to get the same permit to do my wall almost right so that I let's all put this put my wall in this part put my wall and we have said I believe I know I've said it to you and Chuck has said it to me that we will make you whole I know but I want to in that's all yeah I can understand that so what is it going to take to do that Greg so my suggestion is that if we can commit tonight to sit down this week with your attorney and then I think we can move forward yeah I think that's right and I'm not I'm not the attorney on this matter I have somebody else that's smarter than I think we want to make sure that the attorney understands the time constraints and the financial Devastation for this town $6 million is a lot for this little town to absorb I'm choking on it as I speak um so I'm not sure that the attorneys understand the deadlines and we have to get this resolved this week so umney tomorrow resp I set set up something this week with him and the Chan please it's being T tomorrow and we've set up a date okay with the I'll move that the board approve boer's request for an extra half hour liquor sales on easy why not there I'm sorry je did you repeat that I apologize someone was pay attention I move that the board approve Bo Bird's request for an extra half is that what it is I thought it was an hour he told me 12:30 wasn't that what's in the yeah was the 12:30 yeah yeah so half that half hour is good I'm cons I'm confused from the amendment predicated on uh chapter 91 chapter one chapter 91 license uh permit being signed we'll do that thank you can we do that yes your prerogative okay that's your Amendment so yeah I accept it do you want to vote on the amendment separately or oh wait so it's a condition on that being signed yeah oh okay not not the easement part not fin discuss the chapter 91 we can't go out to bid no that's okay I just you're not giving up we don't believe and I think you're L your attorney will tell you're not giving up any rights as it you know as it stands to your particular business right all right that happens after the fact but we can't even have this discussion until we get all the ducks in a row as far as the uh the permanent sign you're the last business to sign up on I'm the only business that's touching the law but as far as the chapter 91 license we need you you to sign off as well we acknowledge that there are other extenuating circumstances that we will address no not producted to go back and forth no um Greg knows what's got to be done let's set up a meeting and I think we can make okay do you want the so we don't have a second though oh you Amendment I'll second this amendment okay let's vote on the amendment first um do you do you first do you accept BR am yeah as long as it's yeah we just vote on V on only based on sign that's yeah John uh no further discussion yes than answerers yes Kathy yes Brian yes yeah yes so do we will we sign that we have to sign something we have to sign something too or just we just swing by the office think part of the just the minute yeah so we don't have to reconvene at some point no no it's just for that one day and okay so we still need a second on the original motion right no no you accepted the amendment so oh so we vot we voted on done good okay okay thank you for coming thank you I'll talk yeah thank you very much appreciate it is 7:49 p.m. on Monday December 16th I will call the finance committee meeting to order I have with me in the room myy Katon Twi Tom Parkin NAD I'm SAR chair and I believe Andy olderman is on Zoom um great confirm that and not and this meeting is also being rep trouble okay so um you're at what is typically feel feel feels as a kickoff for all of you for the budget process um there's been about three months worth of work already by department heads 've been working hard and in putting together numbers and working not only on the operating but also the the capital budget so thanks to them for all their hard work today and we'll continue to to work with both boards as we go through the January February as we aim for a March um final final set of numbers um also want to give thanks special thanks to to to account Andrea Melville who really helps hold main to help pull all these numbers together put the difference together as well so this will just be a high Lev overview tonight is not designed to get into a lot of back and forth on the budget really to introduce it to you and to highlight what I see as some of the key um critical decision points points that will be needed during the um during the coming months I will say that I feel like this budget process that we're going through is is feels different for a couple of reasons or a couple three reasons um one is that while inflation has um significantly come down typically government is is lagging behind in our reaction to those inflationary pressures um so union wages tend to lag a bit um behind those pressures in the in the price pressures on supplies energy Etc tend to lag a little bit um so you'll see in this budget um those pressures coming to Bear a little more than you have in the last couple years um the other uh unique aspect is that we are in the middle of an operations audit so we have a uh consulting firm um on board who's who's sitting down with department heads will be sitting down with many of you asking um your thoughts on how uh operations might be different in terms of um new services or different services or new organization with an eye towards how we might be more efficient and more effective and in our services so that may come into play as well as we get into January into February um uh the Consulting is will aim for the end of January to have the recommendations to to to all of you and so that may have an impact on this budget as well um and then thirdly the U the School District budget is very much in play in terms of um a big unknown at this point um um significant pressures on on wages they're contractually obligated to just under a 6% increase in their wages um and they've been given a very high health insurance number for next year they're hoping that that'll come down and that'll make a major difference in their final numbers but right now they're looking at in the mid 20s for a percentage increase or even higher um so that's that's going to put real pressure and the placeholder number that I show in in this budget this evening is just that it's a placeholder it'll change um and we'll talk a little bit about that as um as I get underway um so we've um we're using the clar go platform and we'll have that available to all of you also to the public um as we um get that all up uploaded we've had a little bit of a delay because of the refreshing of the platform but Andre working hard with them to get all of the uh detailed backround information up on that site that'll be available to you as we as we go forward um so I always like to just start with sort of the big picture and the global numbers so about um a total of 41.5 million it's actually a little less than last year's total expenditures because last the current year um because of some higher Capital expenditures primarily the um the ladder truck and the Mason building had a abnormally High during fiscal year so we're actually down a little bit in terms of total exps but again um almost 20 million that is earmarked for the schools both the re Regional School District and the VTech school um little under 15 million for Town operations very similar number for Capital expenditures um on the what I would call the the normal Capital not the unique Capital as I just mentioned not the Mason not the fire truck as examples but you're sort of runof-the-mill capital 3.2 a little higher than than last year I keep saying last year this year um because this is next year um anual debt payments down a little bit as we retire ow debt um Enterprise fund very similar a small increase at 1.8 um as a placeholder I just kept Community preservation project basically at the same number that that'll vary depending on the actual ual number of projects but to make year-to-year comparisons um easier I I typically keep that number the same and then your state assessments and OPB uh other post-employment benefit U payment the liability we continue to pay and and tax abatement set aside so that comprises the the 41.5 million in total um again you've seen this slide before it's just and I'm not expecting to read it all so just a a sampling of the the services that we're providing from water and sewer you know every day that that water comes out of that faucet and is good to drink and is used for domestic purposes and you can also flush down your waste water and you don't have to think about it um a lot of the stuff people take for granted but it's it's the stuff that town staff are working on day in and day out to provide um really strong services to the town and um I think people appreciate that but I I always like to remind people during budget time what their dollars are bu um about 3,200 Lane miles of of roads to to plow or put Vault down on um th000 tons of trash 700 tons of recycling 120 tons of compost now being processed in a new facility that serves as a regional Hub thousands of bills almost 10,000 utility bills alone on an annual basis 99,100 tax bills that go out excise bills Etc you can you can read the list but it's obviously a long list of services and this is just a sampling of all the good work um that staff are doing and that the dollars that people pay through their taxes are are providing so obviously every budget is based on the number of the asss and various goals um key assumption is that citizens are wanting the current level of services they they are expecting those services to continue um also assuming that we want to continue to make good progress on our backlog of capital we continue to put new monies into Capital every year on that regular capital and what you will hear a lot about this year as we work through the budget is talking about that um you know 25e plus facility plan and trying to make some solid commitments towards U those longer term facility needs we do see higher demands we try to absorb those within the Departments the you will see one Staffing proposed increase for a part-time clerk to go to full-time in the town clerk's office and uh I have a question mark here on fire the the chief has asked for a deputy chief U which is um been in the in the request column for a couple of years now and it's something that we'll we'll need to talk about um and then of course we want to keep maintaining our strong fiscal um posture maintaining our AAA rating which is a rarity amongst municipalities we're we're one of a few municipalities in the state that have that AAA rating it's good to hold on to that particularly when we're looking at uh a lot of bonding coming up and to um maintain our reserves which which this budget does um some of the specific priorities that that the board here select board have identified certainly expanding housing diversity has been been an important piece we just heard an update from the pable Housing Trust to see how we can keep moving forward on that the desire to to uh close on the Mason Lodge our portion of it and to get going on building that addition to it to house the senior center um I mentioned the facility planning we we've done some good studying on some climate impacts and how we can position ourselves to be more resilient and we need to start implementing some of those plans and sort of standard policies of goals of wanting to continue to maintain that strong fiscal stance um and as always trying to figure out how we can um with our partners in Essex figure out the U The Perennial fundings challenges that the district has the school district has and uh that could well come to a new head this year given the challenges that that are there and we continue to work um make progress on the whole governance process how boards and committees are are communicating with each other and as I mentioned that operations audit is there as well so really three fiscal challenges that um are not new perhaps but are are worth emphasizing certainly um as I mentioned even though inflation has has come down we're we're dealing with some lag impacts particularly in wages um Union contracts on the town side are between the three three and a half plus there are some new steps that are built into those contracts that had been signed a couple years ago now um and health insurance has reared its double digit inflation again U we were having a pretty good run there for a number of years when we were down in the two we actually had a a year of zero increase 2% 3% last current year we had a 7% and right now the projection is for a 10% increase on the health insurance side so that's going the opposite direction of where we want it um we're being told to be prepared for that for a three or four year row but no crystal ball is perfectly clear on that but that's what we're being told at the moment and again we talk a lot about capital and that'll continue to be a focus I really already made these comments and then the the climate resiliency efforts as a third and then the school the school challenges as the fourth as the as the four big big items that I see continuing to be front and center as we look at the budget and and the challenges that that we face so in terms of 26 and what new dollars uh we might expect so the preliminary budget that I will show you in a minute calls for 1.6% tax increase um one reason why I'm holding back on that is because of the school that assumes only a two and a half% increase to the school budget and frankly that that could double two and a half could become easily a 5% if not more for Manchester to contribute to um to the district um so we're we're going to need um some taxing capacity in in order to to fund the school budget so this I'm assuming for this current status for this current version of the budget to be at 1.6% U we have new growth about $20 million a year that's pretty consistent um goes up and down a little bit um uh you know we generate between 185 to maybe $250,000 in new Revenue um for this current year we generated 230 I'm showing 200 ,000 in new revenues from New Growth for FY 26 um on our local receipts these are you know the excise tax permit fees um other fees that are charged we had a a big adjustment in the current year we boosted it up to 3.4 million and so I'm right now I'm showing that being level funded I I had expected that we would be increasing local receipts to reflect the um building permit fees from CST which are3 or $400,000 so I I wouldn't put that in your operating budget I would I would Target that to its capital because it's a one time yeah but it's just going to convert into property taxes in subsequent years which is going to be about the same amount right which I'm targeting off of for Capital that's a discussion see that yes we will the 26th all right this starts in July of 20 25 looking at pulling permit sometime in 26 I 25 I think they'll be pulling permits probably in the spring yeah I we we could see some of that money this spring right so we can get into that as we get into the budget my my recommendation is that it gets both both those monies are targeted towards towards Capital so um very mod increase on state aid we we get very little in state aid being because we're a regional district the bulk of state aid the school aid and that goes straight to the district so we don't we don't see that in our budget um Enterprise funds there'll be a small increase in rates we're seeing a slight decrease in volume sales so we're anticipating um again pretty much level dollar receipts there um so if I add up those new dollars about $750,000 in in New money and then um redirecting some of that higher than normal Capital expenditures both to Capital and to some some operating for total of just under 1.2 million in in total new revenues and so where does that all go so that's what this next slide shows um where that 1.2 million roughly would go um so salaries overall um we have a three and a half percent three to three and a half for for wage increases plus some steps um plus um couple of boosts in hours for some positions two two part-time positions um so that's just over 400,000 um as I mentioned that health insurance number at a 10% increase about 154,000 your pension increase of 6 6.2% just over 100,000 um other expenses included in that is a is a pretty healthy boost to Legal our legal expenses have been depending much higher even even if I take out the um the 40b project which obviously was a was a unique case um but even without that we are definitely spending more on legal than we have in years past um I guess it's just a matter of things getting more complicated and more just as life goes on um and then I'm showing we here I'm showing a 2 and half% increase on the school budget for four for just over 400,000 so all of that comes to 1.2 million and again that assume that 1.6% tax increase um and then you see those those notes down below so again just uh highlight some of the key changes so again most mostly Staffing is the same um the it does show a part-time clerk going to full-time in the clerk's office town clerk's office and then um Council and aging clerk was split between the Council on Aging and the uh Conservation Commission this budget uh moves that person full-time to Council on Aging as they Gear Up For U the new Senior Center operations um and expanding programming um and then the question here it's not budgeted in this in this current form of having the deputy fire chief um I think a lot of that in my mind um that will partly depend on our success in working with our partners in essics to see if we can um start down the path of some shared services and there may be some opportunities to do that soon so we will continue that discussion mentioned the benefits going up and then energy Supply legal are some of the bigger changes in in the numbers when you go through line by line so that Capital funding again we will spend a good amount of time on this um we've been running for the most part for the last 10 years without doing bonding paying on a pay as you go basis that has served us well um but that that run is about over in terms of being able to do some of these larger facility needs that are that are coming um coming due and so we will be looking at over the next um potentially five years of some significant bonding in each of those five years um BPW facility past um filtration systems um potentially the elementary school that's underway that design work is underway um the perhaps a little further out but a public safety facility out of out of flooding arms way to make sure that we can continue to operate when the needs are highest um so we have a lot of lot of needs there and you know we're working on a on a m m-e plan that tries to um minimize the pain but we're not going to eliminate the pain because we're that's we just have to do the bonding at some point there's no way around that so the current plan and we'll talk about this further but it's showing upwards of an additional two and a half tax increase for the new bonding over the next each of the next five years um so that would be a significant point of discussion to see what you think about that and see um that is palatable for the for the taxpayers to to Bear given the needs that we have so just just to put this in context what does this all mean for for Po Folks um property values as we talked about in the in the taxation tax classification hearing U we're up to 1.7 million as the as the average home value and the median is at 1.125 so at our tax rate that was just approved by the by the state at 915 for the current year um down from 930 um so for that average value home that's 155 six and for the median it's 103 or an annual tax rate and just as a benchmark number what does a 2 and a half% increase look like for the mean um it's just under $400 and for that median home um just over 250 and then just to put that in the context of Statewide averages not that it means a lot for us here because that we don't see those kind of values here but anyways the the average if you look at Statewide is about $665,000 for typical home um tax bill of around 1150 per thousand generating $7,600 tax rate um and tax increase last year average Statewide was 2.8% um so that translated to just over $200 in an average tax bill so it just gives a little context for where we are so some of the the key um key decisions here that uh I think we we need to focus on and spend the bulk of our time on um looking at staff decisions again you mentioned that Deputy Fire part uh position um something that's been requested for the last the second year being requested and it wasn't put in this current year is requested again for next year and again I mentioned the additional hours in the in the town clerk's office um which actually reverts back to what we had quite a few years back um but um that's been a long time since that's been so obviously we need to make some final decisions around Staffing uh and there may be a couple more that emerge depending on the audit and recommendations from the operations audit may be some shifts that might be recommended as part of that study so there may be a few more added to this list but that's currently what's what's in the hopper and then obviously I been talking about Capital funding we will need to put significant time and energy into mapping that out it um it's it's time to make some decisions certainly on at least some of the facilities in order to to make sure that we're starting down the road um and and to give some uh ability to do the necessary design work and planning that's needed to tee these projects up um these facility plans don't materialize overnight it takes a can take a couple years just to do the design work and edding it all and and getting it ready to go out to bid so there's some upfront monies that are needed to make that all happen and then certainly um I think there'll be a lot of time spent the debating school budget and it'll certainly take your time and attention to help move that debate along um obviously with the override feeling last year from Essex that that to many people that was a setback um and it'll be uh a challenge to to get that perhaps to to be a yes vote in Essex there's always always that possibility of a supertown meeting if it if we fail twice to agree on a budget um so um it it sort of begs the question about the regional agreement and whether or not that needs to be cracked open and and reexamined that won't be a solution for 26 because that'll be a that's at least a two-year process would be my guess um to open up that agreement and to come to any new terms if if that's what wants to happen um but it's still out still on the table as a potential to take a look at going forward so those are as I say those are those major challenges um and I I've done this every year I close on budgets are about choices and uh you know do we have the appropriate size services that that are appropriate for what people want are we doing the right things at the right time with the right people and dollars can be put in different categories and priorities can shift so that's that's where those choices come into play um you know we haven't uh obviously had very little commercial growth in town we have really our first major commercial project in I would venture to say decades with the CST project um so that's phase one and phase two have been received approval for permitting so that's going forward and that will certainly help with tax revenues and can help with those Capital needs further down so that um you know brings us to those the next steps coming up um this is as I say so the launching of phase two of the budget where it's more of a public process year meetings in January and February into March fincom will be meeting weekly to to go over these numbers and to meet with department heads to hear more details about the the challenges and the requests um keeping the select board up to dat and there'll be some joint meeting opportunities of next couple months um the goal of finalizing everything in March as we prepare for um April April town meeting the fourth fourth Monday in April so that's a quick overview of of the budget and some of the key issues I see needing uh our attention over the next over the next few months and U look forward to your input and finalizing the numbers and putting a credible budget before the voters so happy to take any initial questions people have um but as I say this tonight really was just laying out the highlights and setting setting the framework for the work ahead I just want to say there's one outstanding piece that the finance committee is still waiting for and that's that compensation study yeah if we can get that before January 8 that be great yeah I've got a list of things in that meeting that you asked for yeah okay and uh frankly we were just I I needed to get this done first but I'll get you I'll get you that before I I leave for the break here that quick I just said one thing um so we I think this is a year Meet we meet with Dan Sherman regarding um bab yes and I'm wondering if it might make sense to move that meeting earlier just because of these he healthare impacts on pension we might want to know about his inputs earlier in the budget cycle rather than we usually catch it at the end you know it's kind of like a filler meeting before we go to print and and to add to that the information we received from him is different than we did in the early years and we're no longer seeing the the required dollar amount right it's it's lost in all the numbers okay so let's let's bring that up front yeah not bury the lead as they say exactly yeah so exactly if we fund X what's our de when when are we going to pay it off because we were originally gearing up to pay it off in like 27 or 28 because we were paying much more than the required right but I think we've lost some of that momentum um yeah not we're pretty much on target U but what you could do I mean we are um we do have higher than targeted in in the reserve in the fund balance yeah you could you could put a healthy amount into the oped and and then free up some of that annual contribution and redirect that towards capital for example right bonding because I think a milestone out there is particularly the big Capital understanding when op have drops off and when debt from the high school drops off that frees up a lot of yes and I've got that modeled in that mult your plan and if the Essex Elementary is going to come on earlier might be good to get rid of the opo correct right so while we're talking Health Care um where are we on moving the town employees to a health savings account approach so um that's that's part of the mix for the next round of negotiations well not everybody is is a member of a collective bargaining um unit correct true so I guess what I'm in order that's a big change but it can save big money and sometimes um the way you know you can take that approach is by making sure the salary people go first demonstrate the savings and it makes the collective bargaining process easier because I'll tell you once people get comfortable with it the Young Folks really like it because they can save a lot of money yes they can and and I'm very concerned about our hesitation to move out on something that will save us money it may not save us a lot in the first year but it can demonstrate how much we can save later right yes yeah so we I did meet with our health insurance adviser a couple weeks ago and we talking about the timing of how to roll that out I mean for the for the non-union folks I mean we to me this is a Nike just do it you know we we really um gotta move that along um because the to your point the health insurance is not getting any Pleasant and it might also um be uh an example for the schools you know uh that perhaps they could leverage not everybody there is under collective bargaining either um you you know I think we get a lead here and I think all the major companies moved to that 10 years ago moved like 10 years ago and but it was uncomfortable right it was a big change and people were nervous but once people really saw how much they personally could save they were all over it we struggle a little bit with how many plans we can offer but we can adjust that we can adjust I just I think it saves big money over the long term [Music] so I wanted to verify the number for the CPC uh Revenue because it's different from what they're carrying on the CPC spreadsheet yeah I didn't that's just a placeholder okay um I just I just put it in as so so it's consistent from munity years so it doesn't affect the bottom line okay but yes that we'll we'll get the right you aake Andy I'm awake what was the question any comments to make questions no I'm just listening thank you okay thanks he's not feeling well I'm thinking about my collective bargaining position well I'm willing to foro a raise this year okay very generous I was about to offer you 100% raise I want it current account the devil is in the details you know so so so speaking of the details there are some errors in in what you reive coule um I think what I'll do is I'll just email those to everybody okay okay rather I was I was about to walk through them but I just I think it makes more sense to email that to you and you can find the pages but the other thing that's not that no pages on this the first thing I would do is have you write down page numbers on each one so that we can EAS go to page to page the first seven pages are numbered but it didn't continue through right I apologize for that no but yeah there there are we did I found some errors in some formulas so um we'll get those Corrections out to the next day or two did you have something just the while we're on the big picture um one of the big things we were hoping to do is to phas S6 Elementary with coming off the um the other debt for the high school it looks like that's being pushed up then one of the things we might look at to to soften this blow of successive increases is to put off the DPW until that Bond comes out you know or until CST comes online you know when we have more Revenue so that's just something to consider um as an option to redu the tax yeah I I think I think we're going to have to have a discussion with the schools or maybe the school building committee to find out whether they're willing to do gains Bond anticipation notes which would yes would delay when we have to start repaying principal and therefore have lower payments until that 2032 that we were hoping for I I think that's important for us to look at one the promes we've been kicking cans down the road so far right at some point we better start to put some priority on some other dis the school building too right and and and the price tag doesn't have to be 20 million for a garage right we we need to get creative everything 20 million isn't that interesting only the school work that that's on my list but John was going first no the only thing that's scary is the 2 and a half% plus the 2 and a half% and I'm doing the math and that's 30% in five years compounded about and that's a lot that's a lot and there are a lot of people that are going to do that math right well and it may be that in this town meeting we can somehow get that across to people and try to get some feedback we need feedback I think people need to know it sooner rather than later right so that we really kind of can I uh we did few others did a great job with the uh 3aa yeah MTA zoning was getting Outreach was getting out there explain and maybe this fiscal year we should really getting that as high as we did with the uh because when it came down to town meeting you guys had all the answers because you already heard the questions right right and I mean it went smooth I thought it was was very well presented and I think that we should use that as a template for uh budgeting uh process I think that's a great idea and specifically to work our consistent assumption which I'm not is accurate which is that people want the same right because same level of services and I say that because I'm not sure we're asking I I think we could be asking the question a little bit differently you know um in the private sector you might come ask each service owner to come up with what are your top three underutilized services or you know you have different ways of asking the question and then you could say hey this service that I'm performing here very few people use this you know maybe I can save some money if I don't do this but you don't know what the impact is going to be unless you ask the residents I I don't know that we'll ever be able to really test our assumption unless we present the residents with some potential here are some services that if we didn't do these anymore or we did them less frequently we could save X number of dollars is that okay with you and maybe it's not maybe it is but I think there's a General um you know people here in this building they care so much about the residents that they're very quick to respond on everything but when you're delivering lots of different types of services not everything needs that same high level of response and so I just I think we need to think about what we offer a little bit differently and specifically um in terms of the um headcount potential headcount increases I I don't think we should go near that until the operation audit is completed that that would tell us whether or not we have the right head count um U but I just I think we need to be asking these questions a little bit differently I would also suggest we need to accumulate the information we have because every department is receiving requests in from the residents right and if we were capturing that absolutely we would have a better understanding of maybe where our current Services aren't sufficient maybe about right sizing them right SI get the town gets daily communication absolutely residents and I think if there was a way to capture it it might Bic service management and and that would also that data would also help us understand if we need to be charging for certain services that perhaps we don't um you know this is all about service management I just think the data collection is very important but I also feel that the department heads know where they're um you just ask them you know if we if you we could stop something to save you time what would that be and they probably come up with you know they know their areas I think they would come up with some you know loow hanging fruit that we could at least look at and discuss and if even if we didn't save a dime it would start the process of getting them to think that way which I I personally feel is necessary because what I'm concerned about is what I saw in the summary is our biggest area of the budget if I read it correctly outside of the schools was General government and it was increasing the fastest and that makes me everybody's health insurance is there well but and that's why I was poking at the health insurance plans right because that's an area we can save some real money so I just think when you see General anything GNA just well big and growing faster it's it's something we we need to really take a look at we really need to look at our fees also because exactly we up the zba fees to a th000 an application we have not received a single complaint exactly exactly it's a drop in the bucket when you're spending a million bucks Our Town employees do a lot of wonderful things and respond for free you know and so we just it's an area where we we need to take a more I think business oriented approach so I think the only other thing I wanted to mention here was the um I was uh glad to see that we are talking about um you know the operating budget um I I I you know I think we need to focus Less on the rate we obviously have to figure out what fits in the two and a half you know um uh percent guidelines but um it looks as though we're proposing an operating budget of an an increase of 4.9% it's actually miss it's a TI it's 3.8 okay still we had like 7% last year another three just in the operating I'm talking about and so people aren't getting that type of AR raise I mean I don't know anybody who's getting that type of AR raise so I just think we need to be really cognizant of the budget and and look for opportunities to do things differently these are some pretty big numbers i' I've got a question in terms of efficiency I mean one big reorganization here is Land Management I think got shoved under land man we we yeah we put concom we put zba we put HDC right all Under One Roof and from an organizational perspective that's efficient we don't know yet I guess we don't know yet on paper it pretty implemented but I I I I don't know that that's necessarily A moneys saving initiative I was kind of looking through the budget and saying does this save us anything anywhere other than maybe some managers don't have to speak through his many people because things are does it save a body somewhere we're supposed to go hand inand with some reduction in our committees as well Oh you mean the volunteer committees yes oh I'm going save money there no well not so much money but when when you save when when when Town employees have to like you said have to talk to fewer people to get things done there is an efficiency there and and a focus and things can get done faster and when you can do things faster sometimes you can save money but it's very hard to Quant have yeah have have to work through that just in looking through the budget I saw things moving around but I didn't see any money disappearing per se yeah so that that's really a response to better better management of the paperwork and not having fine drop you know slide between the cracks we get a lot of criticisms about you know one board approves something and another board approves it and the two permits don't seem to drive other's not following so it's it's an attempt it's an attempt to to to plug those shortfalls it's it wasn't so much an attempt to save a lot of money yeah B my checkbook you I'm good for the one just um Greg I think your articles in the cricket are really good for example last week's I wonder if it would be worth it to have a this maybe open a can worms but uh for more for feedback or ideas please send to and you know I think this Katon wish for but I mean essentially requesting feedback on particularly those articles about the budget stuff and capital um you know any place we can get feedback because we do sometimes operate a little bit in the vacuum on some of this I and I think the challenge with feedback and I think we saw this in the MBTA zoning was we received the feedback when we had specific things on the table that people felt impacted them and they could react to right the town budget's different they other than ALS people don't feel you know that they're personally impact they don't understand the personal impact until they have something specific and that's what makes it much more different that's exactly right and that's why I say go to the department heads they know their areas and you know it's called management by walking around in a $40 million budget you can pretty much trim 5% without working too hard okay 10% gets ugly um be school back yeah well be happy to I sorry I couldn't make the last meeting but um I I think you're exactly right Sarah we need some I I think we could be doing things differently but until we start presenting some very specific examples to the residents we're not going to get the feedback that is needed to help us um Trim in the right places because we talk about managing the capital right to make things fit well the other part of the puzzle is pulling back a little on some of the operations um growth so that we can also help things fit that way we we we talk about adding adding adding we don't necessarily talk about the reshaping and the right sizing and and that's important as well given the millions we we've got ahead of us here here think my my only what scares me about asking the residents that question is they're used to a high level of services the answer might come back that they want more services but but then as long as they're willing to pay for it right and so if know what the feed right now we're just we have a bunch of assumptions right but real feedback is something you can work with but right now it's just oh everybody wants the same as we've been giving them do we really you know we haven't asked the right questions you know I don't disagree with you they come back might not get what you looking for it yeah just don't ask the question I don't know maybe it's not asking the question just means the budget out there and you know 4.9% are after a 7% or 3.8 time had push back on the budget ATT which is saying to me there not I'm not sure how much concern there is about the tax rate and that's what I can't get my hands around well it's not the rate it's the the bill they get right and so I haven't seen the capital budget yet yeah and once again this is about trying to prevent something bad from happening a couple years from now right sometimes you got to slow down your operations in order to build wigg wiggle room so that you can afford that other stuff you have to do maybe that's an article that has to show up in the paper fairly soon terms of uh this is kind of where things are going you know high level five six years let's see who writes letters to the editor or calls you I know or calls myy I mean it's a really simple example I mean some of us have been on this long enough we were paying outrageous what I considered outrageous snow plowing bills yes for each storm and we were plowing both sides of the street on the heater and other places within like 12 hours of a storm and we said whoa we've got to cut back on this what if we just plowed one side in 12 hours and left the other side and some of the Selectmen at the point who were making big bucks said we get all sorts of calls and we said well let's monitor that so we went one side 12 hours we saved $30,000 ex went an overtime drivers and the number of calls that came in seven so it's like wow seven calls $30,000 I remember after every storm let's keep thinking about this the snow out of there after every storm yeah yeah that's exactly right because like shut off the I'm not sure anybody needs that system anymore let's just shut it off see who complains nine times out of 10 you know what here and it's it's it's not through any malice that this stuff happens it's just an accumulation of stuff and once in a while you got to clean up closet I think the point this year of of listening to as much information as we can get is a really good one maybe have some budget items in your ti do trash every other week that'll get people's attention oh we had issues over trash Oh man when they switched it to every they did switch car or different no we switched the trash pickup to every other week yeah oh you already tried that oh yeah oh yeah that's like dogs on the beach yeah there were too many diapers that didn't work or maybe recycling I suppose I don't know yes I was just gonna say on the trash one I mean we we are considering a pay uh you know uh per week uh or just put it as an outside fee but it's not going to be so much a savings as it is um you know taking it out of the tax bill and making it a you know everybody does their pay as you throw bags we're gonna need to do like pay as you throw carts um so like you know some of that stuff is on the table but um I don't know that it would be a net negative so much as a net neutral net negative yeah sorry doesn't save you money and you still get the calls right I take my own trash to the transfer Center I don't so there are a lot of communities that do that trash s helps yeah I don't have very much trash will now you yeah so the so the carriers should do c curbside they will no longer another year or two no longer um have Crews picking up it'll be all the automated yeah te communities with that they got special trucks they they got the special trucks and the special contain and only one person on the truck just a drive yep that's coming that's that's coming real soon yeah it's coming real soon but that'll there'll be an upcharge for all the new carts so ah so I don't want to give that detail tonight but that's then we won't have the bags anymore P you throw bags I know towns that have you ever watched one yeah yeah watched zip around my son's Town that's what they do the biggest problem it works but problem is the trash guy comes at 5:00 in the morning and it is a noisy noisy today they came at 5 that's all right so in other words consumers might have to buy their own barrels or something I yeah depends how we set it yeah you got a problem with the people who don't buy them whose problem is that well then they their TR there and get the transport station people that was fine interesting any more you have okay I think we still have Ocean Street um and other things to do um I moveing the finance committee second all in favor La I Peter Tom Dean hi Andy hi Sarah we're done thank you for coming thank you for coming attachment power not power yes it looked like one it's the book The it was blank no no it was a PDF of the book yeah I must have done something wrong I guess now because I clicked on it nothing I mean I got I can the video well that's I know I was what I did wrong anyway that's what this book is too much color thank you yep we have um package of what's been happening on Ocean streate um the last time we discussed it I believe we decided that um we would continue to try bre but that um in the meantime there would be something in capital budget um for a high level engineering study um um my are about choices and Ocean Street it's got some very high choices it does so so um and getting good getting professional information rather than that but not Tru isn't but this is not this is beyond what our local Department should be able should be exp right so you know one one of the big um issues out there is what what is what are the permane agents willing to consider what do they consider formidable knows that may change that yes that could change um though a lot of a lot of those are State versus Federal but there are also Army Corp per much involved so that's obviously Federal um so we we continue to um to scour for some Grand opportunities a couple uh couple more promising ones materialized so we're working on those the draft budget does include in the capital $100,000 to advance some analysis for Ocean Street um so that is that is in there that ideally would would be used potentially as a match to some Grant funds as well um that original study was I want to say it was in the $200,000 range um um so getting closer getting closer um so uh and and that's sort of the short and sweet update that we've included some money in the capital and we're continuing to pursue U funding opportunities we were also looking at um for feedback on the application that was rejected yes we did get feedback um and not remembering the exact details of that as I sit here I know that we don't score well on these grants um due to our low population um Ocean Street is a beloved road but it's not it doesn't have the traffic volume that another Community might have in one of their main artery routs or something you say traffic this is cars this isn't people right this is cars right um and then the other area where we don't score well is a lot of the funding is being focused on um EJ communities environmental justice communities that's that's a big focus of of the funders um and again we we just don't score well under that criteria um so that I do remember those two points in particular I have to revisit my notes to see what other feedback they might have given so who's who's the sorry I just thought I'd jump in the the biggest one was you know there was something like $24 Million worth of applications and there was only 12 million of funding or maybe even less like eight million of funding so it was just it was very competitive uh and that was something that I guess unfortunately worked against us given all the other things you mentioned yeah no thank you chck that's a good point and and frankly we we've received some funding um you know recently with with Masco and then the The Village czm Grants um and so they do they do try to rotate it around to different communities so you you often take a break sometimes so Grant so let me ask a question um I so basically what we're talking about doing is potentially putting a 100,000 in the draft capital budget therefore we wouldn't be able to spend that until July or would it be later than that like would we could we let's say we the the voters approved that okay and we wanted to go forth and get an engineering study or something underway would we have to wait until July to begin the process of getting those bids in or could we do all of The Upfront work in the spring and given you know those voters approval to cut the PO you know July one or something yeah so yes we can we can go out the bid and get that all lined up and have a contract already to sign for July one so let me ask a second question then because you know based on the information I see here this been going on for you know what six years at least longer than that but there was a lot of inactivity for a long time so I thought I just heard in our finance conversation our Reserve budget is a little higher than our Target yes why do we have to fund 100K and hope for a grant to fill the rest why can't we ask for 100k out of Taxation and and use the reserve budget to to basically what I'm I don't want to see another year go by with complete inaction and if we're always relying or hoping to get a grant to me that's what's causing the delay and and and what's the definition of insanity keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result so if if the grants aren't aren't getting what we need can we try something different and maybe the voters will say no maybe they wouldn't support it but I don't even think we put it in front of them recently um I I just I'm nervous about relying and hoping on another Grant and missing an entire year again but so short answer is yes you can you can you can do that um that's one plausible use of of that fund balance um so that is an option there other options so I'm just I that came to my mind because I heard us talking about it you know 10 minutes ago are there other options other than the grant to you know fund the study we need to get us the information we need to make a decision because that's really what we can't make a decision about what to do about Ocean Ocean Street until we get you know a proper study done done and seems like the grants aren't getting the only the only third option that comes to mind is potentially you you convince a professor of an engineering class to use it as a case study that's that's that has happened that's not out of the question there's certainly a lot of good universities and colleges around that that have that could do that um so that's that's the only third vehicle that I can think of well so there's $100,000 or about that in this account that's what's being that's what's allocated that's in the proposed budget in the in the proposed budget I I mean the the thinking was is that it would be a higher level type of thing I mean the other the other proposals been I don't know $200 $300,000 and this is like maybe it's matching funds here's a 100 you throw in a 100 Etc but if we're looking at a higher level type of thing we're not looking at that kind of money I hope it's less money right it's not going to be as definitive of an answer but how much did the Rotunda an I keep going back to that model because it was so successful in getting information that we needed and um you know the information to the residents so we could get the feedback and make a decision how much did that study cost they came up with the four options that was probably very expensive right uh I'm not remembering the number I don't I don't know if you remember that Chuck but um Rene I want to say it was 100 something because that's what I was looking for I just thought that was really well done this is more I would say oan street is more complicated definitely more complicated so it's um a comparable that is going to cost more but again can I ask what do we expect to find from this new study are they supposed to tell us that despite everything that we've been told as far as pering goes but there's other ways of getting it done we can't get permanent from the agencies why we I mean we've been told my understanding and Chuck correct me if I'm wrong that a lot of things that we need to do require state and federal uh permits and approval and we're not going to get them so are we spending good money after bad well well do we definitely know that though we don't without a study right if we don't have a some kind of study we don't know what kind of permits we're going to bring forward right so we don't really know what doable if if if you want to get the definitive answer to the question of what is permittable then you you hire the engineers to to to develop different scenarios and they run that up the lat up the flag pole to the different permitting agencies and get feedback um so and talking informally to to the per agencies you know we have been told that you know don't don't count on a major fortification of of that road that's not what they're permitting these days okay but don't we we have to keep part of this road keep both parts we don't to keep this connected I me you have to have access to Crow Island you can't get rid of the whole so they have something has to be allowed to be done not necessarily I think the two Beach I think it's white Beach so so we ended at beginning there's no guarantee that the road lasts forever understand no I what I'm saying is so what's the access to Crow Island going to be well it may not have Road access I can't guarantee that 50 years from now right so I think all I was saying though is we I I believe Chuck has done the due diligence that he can right but we're past the point where that's enough right and when I say I'm looking for options they should include a pedestrian you know only option for certain part of Ocean Street um you know Crow Island we have to have some definitive options as to what to do whether it's Road access or not but I think you know if I was a property owner along there the Casual conversations are no longer they're not good enough right so I that's why people I think are anxious to have the defend yeah I mean it's not like they've been they've been patient so I'm just want to make sure that if $100,000 in the budget is not enough what do we need to get the options so we can have the right conversation make some decisions and go so I would say it's probably the 230 250 range so then do you want to so then the question is do we want to go with the 100 in the capital and take the rest out of Reserve or or you know try to ask the residents do you want to fund the whole thing out of Taxation and cut somewhere else so I just I think those are the conversations we need to have during the budget process so we don't Kick the Can another year well okay I just don't want to keep asking the question till we find an answer we want to hear right but that that's what the options are they should include Road access no Road access whatever but we have a hand up yes we have a hand up yes um yeah I have a hand up I actually uh live on Ocean Street wait before you start your your name is my name is Preston Traverse I live at 100 Ocean Street okay thank you and I just wanted to frame this in two ways the way I view it there's two things going on here the first it was the general maintenance of the road and over the last 10 years I've seen failures in the town maintaining the road as it relates to you know the there's there's larger storms so there's more damage but unless the road is fixed what is happening and you see it between Crow Island in that bridge you see failures in the sidewalks because what's happening is the water's getting in there and year after year with the freezing and additional water getting into the storm wall structure um it's eroding and at the end of the day what the town has done is filled it with rocks and gravel and I'd like you all to walk down Ocean Street and see that if you stand on the bridge all that gravel every year you pour into those sidewalks instead of fixing them is now part of the ecosystem of the marsh and um the end of the day I'm very appreciative of the DPW when we have a storm moving the sand but I feel that's one issue that really hasn't been addressed and the one thing I put on record with the town is if I was fully in charge I would remove all the sand and that includes the sand at um white Beach and the sand in front of the houses because it's on the wrong side of the street and that's creating part of the the destruction going into the marsh now whether we can maintain the road Al together that's item number two it's not the maintenance item that's occurred over the last 10 years that's more of what we need to study for and that is to decide what we're going to do but I want to remind the town I just checked the other day and between the five houses we're paying $250,000 per year in taxes um I don't believe any of us use the schools but I think the schools are important but we'd like to have our roads maintained so I think it's worthwhile especially with the tax increases I was on with the budgeting me meeting to try to push this forward and at the end of the day if it comes back and it's four or5 million let's think about how we can monetize it um with those two bays um and I don't think that's a discussion that the residents on the street whether it's the immediate residents or the residents behind that use the street aren't willing to have to figure out how to get creative so that's all I wanted to say thank you very much um Chuck right so I just I just wanted to speak a little bit to the maintenance of the road I I think that we have actually done uh what we can with the maintenance because maintenance is also a budget line in the item uh in the in the budget uh so you know we we do do that and if you actually walk on the area that the gentleman was mentioning there there was an effort to put concrete in certain areas the problem is you can't tell where the concrete needs to end or where it needs to go in the voids behind the rock wall and so it's a much larger project uh in terms of our operating maintenance budget to be able to get it and I I agree that you know I I guess I would just look at like we've done what we can we I understand what the problems are but there's a limit to what we can do to address it and so we've tried uh several of the things when it comes to maintenance we tried installing uh the uh different uh erosion control measures on the black beach side we've tried putting in Jersey barriers to protect the road on the white beach side we put in additional uh trap Stone and uh revetment stones on uh some of the other low-lying areas so it has been a Litany of things that we've done to try and prevent uh what nature is trying to do and I think that is the reason for the study so I think I think we're generally in agreement on that uh but you know but it there is a kind of a limitation to what can be done and what can be done uh within the permanating kind confines that we have um so I I guess that's just something I want to point out for everyone that you know is taking a look at this and you know I I understand the issues but it's not a simple solution if it were simple it would be done is what I say so I'll leave it at that for now and CH this is pressing and I appreciate that and I totally understand I think the DPW comes out there and responds very well you know when there's a storm surge I'm just with you it's the long-term maintenance and you know whether we had to acrw money 10 years ago over time to have enough money to address some of the maintenance issues on a structure like that you know that was built probably in the late 1950s but I appreciate the work that the team does trying to keep the road clear I'm just pointing out what we've done because we haven't put the right amount money in it if you walk the road it looks you know it looks rough and I think you would agree with on that you've done your best but it is what it is thank you in general I don't appreciate back and forth between people who are not on the board so if it comes up again and you'd like to speak raise your hand and I'll recognize you thank you want to pick up Happy's suggestion or is that what we do tonight or I I just think it's part of the budget process I just don't want us to forget and if 100K is not enough let's make sure we put before the voters whatever it's going to take to get the answers because always we'll be having the same conversation next year so even in the best Grant scenario it would be basically a match is that what um not all grants require match but most do in the 20 25% range you need to speak to like an engineering firm or you feel this has been dealt with enough that you know what the number is yeah I feel like you know Chuck was able to get a very comprehensive scope of work and an estimated cost to that that's what went into one of the grant proposals so I feel like we have that number we know right and whatever that number is they'll work to that number so it's the way it works right I escalating costs I I I think the outcomes of this are first we don't want to have this happen year after year we've been around this one more than once um if we put the money into the capital budget with some of it coming from um available funds and some of it coming from taxation then we've put it in front of the the voters and they can decide and and I have heard okay um sorry I'm going on too long um I would like to hear from um right up please just turn it off oh unmute yourself um okay so we will we will come back to this in the budget MH um one more time if you want to speak you need to unmute yourself sorry about that no that's can you hear me now yes Chuck forong 19 Ocean Street just two points if I may um there's been a lot of talk about what can be permitted and what cannot be permitted my recollection is the last time this topic was uh before the board of Select persons um I mentioned two projects very proximate to Manchester one in Essex one in Beverly where a huge revetment was permitted for anot college in Beverly and the on konomo point in Essex Essex was granted $1.8 million for a $2 million project to restore the seaw wall where the Essex river runs out into behind cranes Beach so I politely suggest that the assumption that these this this work is not permittable be reviewed again with open eyes and perhaps open minds and see if there aren't other ways that we might get funding and I appreciate your consideration thank you thank you very much um I had a thought it's gone um part of what we're trying to do is to get a professional opinion from engineer who work in this area rather than relying on um the word Word of Mouth the word of what what we've been doing with word of mouth is valuable but the reason that we're bringing this up again is that we don't want to be relying on somebody's assumptions so yes we hear you and we're trying to address that problem so when it comes up in the capital in the budget we put we look at putting more money into it um and get this thing going there had been some suggestion of working with the neighbors and I I can't imagine how that would work I mean financially I mean financi quite frankly I don't think it's I don't think a fair to them than b um it it's not worth the effort I don't mean to be glib about that but um the difference between you know a $200,000 effort plus 50,000 from Neighbors verus the town during the 250 more efficient for us to do the 250 yeah too much work to get the extra 50 that's what I'm trying to say yeah okay okay I appreciate the trying to turn the GI of the mouth okay um I think we that a direction to go on that um none of it's going to make that road a main thare um right are there Le on up [Music] updates Jingle Bell Walk without a hitch no one missed any other uh other entities that used to be involved with it when uh basketball is uh up and running I think it's uh p in good shape tomorrow uh p uh somehow reached out to the North Pole and Santa Claus will be calling a number of homes we missed it and uh so I think it's uh yeah so PX and re is a good shape um I assume that that Brenda that's muted was that a new hand up um yes thank you an uh Brenda Furlong 19 Ocean Street um I understand that it would take some time to um go forward and get this before the town meeting most of the problems uh exist in the wintertime I'm wondering if there's any temporary solution such as temporary Jersey barriers or something else that could be um installed to uh prohibit any kind of damage during this winter thank you um I'm sure Chu is still on and and listening um and he will I'm sure he's at least as interested in preventing damage to that road as anyone sitting in this room maybe not as much as those of you who who live there but we will certainly he he will certainly do whatever he can to keep this winter from blowing up the road again so thank you thank you okay um John um no Fires at the DPW see away at least none more than usual um I will say the library has water problems but we all know the rain that came down a couple of days ago and that's yeah they had several inches in their basement and they also have some window issues and there have been emails the DPW was certainly aware of that but that may be come a budget issue sooner rather than later regard to been the water handling I think they need a bigger sump pump or something because it's not keeping up with the water problem so um other than that how is the historic district commission doing on the flag po uh this historic district commission is okay at the last meeting that that whole was voted fine it was voted through so that's all that's all set um see iik can pet I'm not sure if I mentioned they were engaging with um Chief Fitzgerald recommend both short and long-term changes to that crosswalk in front of Seaside one that pedestrian accident um down Town Improvement at our meeting we had a couple weeks ago we talked about the um wayf finding and and um downtown Improvement is going to recommend to us um some ways we can reduce the Clutter and maybe reduce some signs that are out there and I'm wondering what type of a Target date we should give them they asked about that um is it something just as long as it's done before the Culvert project do we feel we need it sooner um are there any other me they look I mean they ask it's always a good question when you ask somebody to do something you should give them a Target date to April 15th April good okay I'll give them an April date that sounds great they um also mentioned there was some um I guess back and forth some uh confusion about what's happening with the wayf finding signs um it it's my understanding that um the DPW representative on the team was trying to communicate with the designer to get the approved designs the designs we approved in the proper digital format so that the Sign Company can do what they need to do so the I don't know if I saw the actual statement of work but the statement of work that I saw said that the designer was going to produce the the designs in a digital format it did not specify a digital format and so the sign company that our team is working with apparently needs you know a vector format um and the designer was looking for okay well that I I think there was a miscommunication there potentially looking for additional funds to get the designs in the proper format for the Sign Company so Marlene is just going to clarify um how much that would cost to get the designs in the format required by the sign company we I guess were using um according to the designer you know other sign companies produce this format on their own um so anyway when you're requesting stuff in a digital format the phrase digital format's not enough but um I I'm sure that'll all get worked through but once once this is all worked through I think the committee that we set up should not have to worry about this so my question Greg is who owns The Branding um because we approve some branding here right and and I guess people are still coming coming to marleene about Trail signs and other things the committee we set up did what we asked them to do and they should kind of be done with this but DPW produces signs they don't [Music] necessarily maintain The Branding and stuff like that so who in your organization is going to kind of take the the lead on ensuring that new signs have the proper branding and and all that stuff so new new town sign yeah yeah so that'd be Tiffany Tiffany okay I don't know if she's been involved in this process at all but I guess what I'm communicating here is we need to that committee did its job we need to let them go let's tie up the Loose Ends and make sure that we have clear roles and responsibilities who's going to take the not only take this to the finish line but make make sure it is properly maintained on an ongoing basis because I think other people are coming to the committee asking for help with their signs and and this committee's gone right now okay thank you that was it I I might add as a coral are to your comment about flutter initially that the historic commission about half these signs are in the historic district the other half or not and with regard to the parking signs which are at both entries to the back here um I know part of The Branding is the post and we said no new posts whatever the park current parking sign is on you're just going to take that down and put the new one on with the appropriate Motif in the same location so there are no more posts than there are up there right I I don't really have I missed the last planning board meeting because I had something else going on so yeah I don't really have any but yes the planning world like feels that they are perfectly capable of dealing with 8us and um shortterm rentals and they've got eight other things no six other things um that they want to work on between now and town eating so it's going to be interesting so are those what they're going to propose are those intended to be in zoning bylaws or would they make a recommendation to the select board for us to include something in the general by they be both might be both okay budget presentation at the they deliberately held everything level including the amount of reserves that they put into the operating budget um and the answer came out um I I don't have the numbers off the top of my head but very very large so they're going the um School administration is going back to look um as as B said the their health insurance is up by over a million dollar even in a $33 million budget is big big numberers We've ran you seem to run into it every four or five years or so you get a big balloons and then we didn't get it this year but uh one thing they did I was up there the other night they did mention that Chapter 70 looks like it's going to be lower than but it was last year they're talking under 2% which is insult to injury but uh that's what they're planning for up there so I know you don't want to hear that but uh yeah that was talked about the other night up there pretty much the extent of my information um we have a consent agenda which is one is there anything that anyone would like to remove from consent agenda so Greg I had noted to you some I thought some errors in the November 18th minutes 118 yeah so I would recommend pulling that out of the consent agenda is there a motion to accept the uh consense agenda with the exception of the November 18th so moved second discussion John yes yes Kathy yes Brian Jeff yes yes okay what are the corrections to um the attendance list it listed all of it that was the special quick meeting we had before meeting was one paragraph and the attendance list not everybody was there and I couldn't remember know the three of us were here three of you were thereon was I was out on the floor you were out on the Flor I was out the floor whipping BS so I just think we need to make the attendance correction and voting as well oh oh um with regard to Lisa please un mute yourself hi Lisa bonnaville on 23 wood Home Road um I just want to point one thing out regarding the presentation from the longevity bench project the location on Summer Street it was uh reviewed Friday by Dig Safe and the location um it it requires that our bench move move three feet closer to the uh green box um because of a uh I'm trying to find my note utility wires in the ground yes uh yes um specifically um a water water feed that uh came in the my excavator feels he can easily work around the uh um the orange Flags I don't know if you were able to get that additional page but the communication and TV lines are not an issue at all but I just wanted to uh clarify that we do have to move it a little closer than the my diagram shows thank you um I'm wondering maybe we can just do a consensus that we are willing to approve a bench that's within 10 ft of supposed to be where it's supposed to be I'm look yeah it still looks like in the same place yeah it's pretty it's pretty immaterial it's a dominous check yeah that's a problem okay um I do you have a did we have a motion to approve the I moved Jeff yes ran yesy yes aners yes John yes and yeah really I think what I've written there sufficient I don't really need to elaborate unless you have a specific question um um just underscore that that we do have our staff gathering on Wednesday so Fs in your schedule to attend welcome your presence and good holiday so yeah I'll give you some additional updates next time or on Wednesday yeah if if I don't see any of you between now and January I you have wonderful holiday season Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Happy New Year happy Quanza happy Hanukkah Boxing Day dancing around the oak trees pain blue pus I think I've covered everything it cover maybe that's I don't know is week isn't like the week between oh is that right boxing de starts It Boxing we all motion I move to a Jour second all in favor yes do we have anything to sign yes you do we signes I've been practicing I brought up pass them down after you oh this feel heavy it's all the