June 17th meeting 2024 elction by the SE of ERS Don is here okay um the first item is public comments ons [Music] okay put yourself on mute micophone working on it it's it's it's everything's muted is yours good all right I think we're goodine um is there are there any comments yes I have some public comment um name and address Willam Bell full Raymond Street thank you um first I want to thank everybody that was involved with the working on the cemetery down on Magnolia Avenue it came out nice it was all set for Memorial Day um the only thing they didn't get to was the double wall at the bottom of the near the brook and they'll probably get to that when the cemeter is burn out July but uh I wanted to thank everybody that was involved with that um I wanted to make a comment about the beach Circle pox and wreck had the DPW up there and they cut back 8 feet from the wall the stone wall and it looks beautiful um I would ask of the board that uh if there isn't anybody that has any um anything against it that I would get down there and touch it up a little bit the end of the stone wall where the castle is and then there's like 12T of burm after that there are Boulders under those BMS so if they could come back and dig into the burm and expose The Boulders you'd have another 6 or 8 ft of swing in that Circle um are you suggesting that you would do that or we would like us to have the DPW do that well I I could touch up with a castle is so you could see the end of the stone wall myself but I can't okay fine yeah take care of the burn are you prepared to fight Dave McDougall for this Dave McDougall doesn't touch the circle he doesn't touch but I appreciate everything he does um and lastly I'd like to request the removal from my of my name in the uh star Community Star Award because I when I started this March 11th of this year I was requesting for a Grand Marshal for the parade and it is taken a different direction so I'd like be removed from it okay thank you that's all I have did you think that you were up for the award what's that do you think you were up for the award no I'm probably too young thank you for your time your phone um I have no Chairman's report um you seem to be including the things that we needed that we listed for today are there other action items that have occurred to anybody we should add to the list um yes uh Isabella bites to Mas normal I don't know if this is I talked with Greg I'm hoping very much that it will be resolved that the strong women weightlifting program can return to the community center and that I don't know if it's an action item that's needed on the boort of the select board to accomplish that I know originally there was a contract that we approved at at town meeting which then fell apart but I don't know if at this point there's an action item that's needed at this point I believe that is entirely in the hands of the hybrid Associates okay I didn't know if Manchester was Contracting with them um not yet not yet so we we they they know that we remain very interested okay some we watch an item today we we we can't unilaterally take their property even for a couple of hours a week but we are hopeful that at least even on a temporary basis before the final things are in place that there might be resolution to the to the class no other comments um we interviewing Georgia Bast and Diane Lindquist for The Zing board of appeals um Georgia I'm Diane yes that's yeah I'm Georgia you want me to stay seated or is the podium you can stay seated um tell us a little bit about why you're interested in this position yes so simply put I love zoning I'm a zoning nerd I love planning um and I'm mainly on the municipal side so I've every town I've lived in I've tried to volunteer on the zoning board so I moved from Norwood I was on that zoning board and um by career I I have my masters in land use and planning and Community Development and most recently I just left um being the town planner in daners for more than five years so I staffed the Conservation Commission and the zoning board um and aside from that I really love bylaws and find it very interesting and I um I recently made a career change and I'm now working for the DP in my environmental side um so I I'm not able to scratch my zoning itch and then aside from my personal interest in it I I think it's important to to the community um I also think it's important to have a younger voice on the community I say younger lightly I think that's a very it could be a broad range of Ages but it is good to have younger women women representation on our boards um and I saw there was two vacancies so it really seemed like a perfect opportunity I have not been in Manchester long I lived here about two two two and a half years was not raised here um but I lived here now and the past two and a half years I've enjoyed it so I want to be able to get back John uh really thank you for raising your hand apparently you've raised it in previous circumstances with other places I look at the background and what you've said and no training no orientation nothing is needed you hit the ground running here so um uh great I thank you you had me at zoning seriously your background is excellent and um I I think it's nice to have someone who is new to Manchester also represented on the board I think that fresh set of eyes is important so um I don't have any questions thank uh you know what you're getting have you spoken with the chair yes I had a great conversation with Sarah yeah we decide who's the bigger nerd and just thank you for stepping up to do it you sound May more than qualified so thank you was qualified some MERS speak for yourself he is I think he is I have no questions thank you for any minute you um ask GNA have individual motions on each candidate don't we I move to select board appoint Georgia P grass to Bill kathern how's term as a full member only board of appeals from July 1st 2024 to July 30th June June meeting ready for a vote joh Yes yes yes KY yes Brian yes yes thank you very much thank you um and um Diane yes I've uh lived in Manchester since 2015 very happily I think it's a wonderful town and uh I retired a couple years ago from Boston University I'm a lawyer uh practiced about 35 years uh before retiring and I did a lot of different kinds of law I'm not a zoning nerd so take I'm kind of a b LW nerd I have to say I there's a fond spot in my heart for bylaws um I think it's an important um zoning appeals board is important to most of the citizens all of the citizens in Manchester and I think it's important um that these things be taken seriously and and decide well and sounds interesting so I'd like to do that okay um I don't really have any questions thank you same question have you spoken to the chair I haven't the chair was derel um and you're aware uh and I'll now I'll channel the inner Becky here yes uh and the time'll have the time to uh forward for this yes um I'm good okay just one question since um zoning wasn't your primary uh background area is there a particular interest um or what what particular area of you know that you know as a lawyer I practiced employment law commercial litigation Health Care compliance a lot of different things little bit of property um and I just love the law um and I love the process of reading something interpreting it um applying it and all that sort of thing that's great so that's what appeal to me I skill set is also very welcome on that on that particular committee so so thank you for stepping up I have no questions thank you for offering your service so this is your first uh shot of Public Service shall we say oh well shot maybe so okay I've done a lot of community work and a lot of uh but in terms of town government your first before this I lived in Washington DC not much town there no and before that it was tuon Arizona and I grew up in the South Shore so I've never been in a community that is small enough that I really feel like part of the community so so we engender volunteerism here that's good I'm glad to hear that so great I thank you for raising your hand and it will be a wonderful experience is there a motion I move the select board appoint Diane linquist as the second alternate member of the zoning board of appeals from July 1st 2024 to June 30th 2025 second uh the chair says that's actually the first alter at this being that right the point of sorry the first alternate would be me being replaced you're being replaced accounts for the smile on you was smile we had spoke in uh Jim dri should we finish the vote or let's finish the vote Yes yes and yes yes okay Jim DED was going to step down but apparently at in the mid 80s got nothing else to do with his time and uh so Sarah came back to me I know that John berys who would agreed to stay on I did you talk touch Bas with him all right he's going to stay on so and I think that when we have some new blood coming in and new volunteers we are make uh arrangements for that okay so I'll tender my resignation formally or something of this is this it July one ju we're Wednesday night right yeah you're on Wednesday night um would you consider staying on as the staying as the Le on between the S board and that would be great yes thank you great terrific congratulations I hope you both enjoy it thank you thank you thank you very much you're welcome to stay but not required okay we a couple minutes um ahead of the schedule for the Masano Park presentation um can we take up the consent agenda are there anything that we'd like to moove from the consent agenda um so I will just note that under the special events we don't have everything finalized with the proposed movie filming okay things are still um little uh not nailed down okay that's often the case it seems with filming so we don't need formal approval but I guess it would be be helpful to know if you are in favor of the basic concept and staff can continue to work out the final details okay so the question we will remove that from the consent agenda for the rest of the consent agenda there any questions I just had one on the um the concerts the Manchester Essex performing I didn't see the specified start and end times on the music there was they were using music amplification and so we're just going to double check the stting end time on that because uh I think those feels were blank yeah I thought it they oh actual hours of the event 11 to 12 I'm sorry that's the that's the public library it was the other one that I saw the start and end times I know the overall event was a certain amount of times but it was the music piece okay um just like paration page that was it was um so I think they're suggesting end time is 8 and then clean up from 8 to 9 yeah historically it's when the same hour is regular I can't even read the start time okay so the start time and so if the end time is 8 o'clock for the amplifi sound that's that's when sound ends and then they would so that's for the concert ends and then they would use the last hour okay for clean up okay as long as that's the last as long as that's the end time I'm okay is there a motion to accept the consent agenda with the exception of um the uh filming at singing Beach second yes yes answerers yes yes okay now um what is the feeling of the board on the subject of the pH at singing Beach John so far so good I'm I'm I'm fine with what I have have read and person that is representing the filming folks is obviously done this many times she knew all the question be coming up so I'm I'm I'm I'm okay with everything I've seen so far when you say something is uh not there they they the date isn't nailed down okay that's that's the main thing all right I was going to ask about the date like what are we it was one day deal two days maybe two days yeah it was in there but right so they were talking about later in the week and we are saying no it's better to be early in the week just in terms of beach you no Monday Tuesday the best days um you know non non holiday Monday and Tuesday is preferred who's responsible for police details they would be they would be okay yes um and following up on mu's uh email say this with thee was the desire to keep partial some of the funds that are paid to the town to help maybe the fireworks or whatever so that's discuss discuss that now don't don't that right got a question on the um on the graphics that were provided there's a green box a couple of pictures it says a few hours and then there's a red box and I didn't see an annotation so the red box is where the where the majority of the film take place okay and would the beach be completely off limits to theend Traverse okay so it's just that section yes thank and will Amy Adams be there hope I would assume so okay so I I that the board is in faed next time yep very good okay um I think we're ready for the um Masano Park presentation okay I know that we have members of the the team from fuss O'Neal they were the Consulting Engineers who helped um put together the uh the three-day chared that was held um couple months ago now and that was the basis of of the idea that they will be presenting this evening and so why don't I turn it over to Alex Maxwell who's the the project coordinator I'm at plus oal and Alex you probably W to share thanks great okay great just get that up here hopefully that's showing now Ian can I get a thumbs up that you're seeing it on your end excellent great great well uh thanks Greg and and thanks members of the board and members of the community um I'm here with my colleague Ian law uh from fuss and O'Neal and we're here to report out on as as Greg mentioned um some of the work product developed as part of our three-day Community uh visioning workshop and design shet um so before we get started I know some some faces are familiar in the crowd there but um for for the new faces I'm Alex Maxwell I'm a senior environmental planner and engineer with with fuss and O'Neal uh I have with me Ian law who have introduced himself Ian you want to say a quick hello hi everyone uh Ian law I'm a senior landscape architect uh with fuss and O'Neal and uh really excited to be here and and share the the workshop results with you great thanks Ian um all right so I will uh just flip through these here so this evening hopefully you're seeing um the overview slide are you seeing that Ian or did it change screen I am seeing it yes great um so we'll just give a little bit of context behind this project and why why we did this Workshop here and then explain a little bit more about what we were up to uh over that early part of May um with members of the community members of the design team and then uh the real highlight will be showing some of the the conceptual design Alternatives that were developed here um but just to give a little bit of the context behind the project um the town as as many may know did receive for the second year in a row a grant from the office of coastal zone management or czm uh known as a coastal resilience Grant um it's actually a a two-year Grant and the purpose of this two-year Grant which started this year and we will um uh extend into next year is really to begin implementing some of the actions developed in last year's Coastal vulnerability action plan that was was also developed with funding from czm and that we also partnered uh with the town and and members of the community to develop um so this is really uh the first steps in in beginning to implement some of the near-term actions um identified in that plan um this is actually an excerpt from the plan one of our uh graphical scenarios uh for near-term actions to address Coastal resilience along the Inner Harbor Alex I apologize to interrupt or um oh you we're not seeing that Alex oh yeah you were just seeing the the cover page I gotta thanks for letting me know see that could we reduce the size of the and and push it down Ian are you now seeing overview I'm seeing the overview yeah about the project all right here's about the project and then this is this is the slide I just just it on so all right thank you thank you for letting me know it's like you juggle in multiple screens and I'm trying to keep the faces on the screen as well but yeah flag me down if if you see uh see that happening again but this was the the excerp I was talking about here um and I just want to briefly call out this this area in the yellow that was what was identified in last year's plan to begin as part of a near-term action to explore um adaptations to accelerate uh or sorry accommodate future recreational and programming and and floodable zones within Masano Park um along with elevating some of the critical infrastructure namely the generators at the fire and police stations which uh czm is also funding as part of this two-year Grant but we're really going to focus on uh what we did with the um the masconomo park um exploration here through the community planning and uh design shet um so over the course of it was actually from April 30th to um May 2nd which seems like a little bit of a lifetime ago it's hard to believe we're wearing uh big winter jackets with almost 100 degree weather on the horizon uh but we did did get a number of folks out over the three days um to conduct a site walk of masconomo Park um provide us feedback on you know how the park is been used historically what's working well with the park what's maybe posing a challenge especially when looking at some of the the flood mapping that was developed as part of last year's planning study of the the entire Inner Harbor uh and then our our job was really to kind of take all that feedback in and then um beginning to visualize some of the the Alternatives being discussed and what was really possible with the site um the images that you see in the left that's part of what we call the the walk shops that's where we're walking the site uh listening to folks taking down feedback we had boards with us with some of the flood mapping and then uh on the evening of the second day we had a pinup right out in front of uh town hall with a couple of the early sketch designs uh to really just get get reactions from folks and hearing uh what they liked what they didn't like about the different types of Alternatives uh and we had some precedent image boards and then on the evening of the third night we also had a a report out um kind of a town hall style report out um but the pro this this three days really really all started with a little bit more of an explan or exploration of the the sort of history of masomo Park uh stretching back to the the Olstead Vision uh for the Park which is actually on the the screen here um which you can kind of see a lot of the same uh Design Elements still Incorporated in in the park at present day here uh minus most notably the the parking uh at the point um but definitely the big open space uh the winding Pathways the connection to the water uh all of those still really important um and concurrently we also look look back and uh credit to to Nate for helping to to pull these Nate rers who's on blet to help pull these these images in as well that give us a little bit of the history uh looking back at um masan NOA park over the years this is from approximately 1900 um where of course you don't see much of a park but you definitely see the the salt marsh um Beach Road in in the middle of the photo and then of course the outer harbor um you know beginning around the 1930s you start to see some of that hestad uh vision uh take shape the band shell and some of the pathways um certainly no parking out at the front but uh connection to the to the water through Pier uh then stretching into the 50s now we start to see some of the the parking um out at The Point and interestingly enough uh room to launch boats and access to the water out by the point uh as well um you can also see the the cul along Beach Street uh that's open um in this photo and of course those familiar with the site will know that's that's actually uh got a tide tide gate on it it's closed closed up uh now um here in the in the 1960s photo you see actually some of that recreational programming taking place on the open field with the the baseball field there um and then uh in the 80s just kind of another another view where you see that baseball field still there some of the the parking out at the end and then uh masconomo today which which looks you know kind of largely largely the same um with with some site improvements with the play structures and uh and some of the improved parking structures as well um so we looked at Mascoma today through through this lens but also through the lens of what we looked at in last year's um planning study which was all really focused on the vulnerability to Coastal flood events um and these are actually images from the the January flood events uh where you can see uh large swats of of masconomo Park uh that get flooded uh in such Coastal storm events um but we also heard and and have learned through also the the previous modeling of the site um that even tital inundation can become uh a nuisance on the site um when you have large title events so it's not just storm events which you're seeing in the images here but even even at present um you're getting quite a bit of of coastal inundation in wet areas on the site um so taking all that information on board and and coupling it with this image that you see here this is actually another excerpt from from last year's plan which just shows the extent of tital flooding out in the future um here the the darker blue you know kind of coloring in the the harbor here um that's the title extents uh out to 2030 uh and then the the kind of royish blue not the lightest but kind of that interim blue there um that represents what will be the higher high water mark out in 2050 and you can see that encroaching in on the southern portions of masconomo where actually you're already seeing parts of that get wet in coastal storm events and some of those large tidal events uh and then out to 2070 is where you're seeing that lightest blue extent there um so the real takeaway from this was that you know this this place will flood um how you know how would the community like it to look potentially in the future as it phases from um um you know the park that we know today to potentially something that looks you know quite different in the future especially as you look as far out as as 20170 and recognize uh the degree of of flooding that you will um likely see on the park um so here's just a look at some of the images from from the the walk shop here we did kind of a world word cloud study of all the different things we heard about we heard a lot about uh trees but also wanting open space we heard about the various events um happen on the park we heard about the working Waterfront component we heard about the need for bathrooms expanding uh some of the play areas and just kind of took took all this in uh and used it to develop some of the the conceptual designs that um Ian will actually talk us through here and uh present uh one at a time just the different Alternatives uh that were developed so Ian do you want to uh step us through this and I can I can advance the slide as you say next sure per perfect um so obviously the the first concept is is do nothing right um continue operation and and maintenance as usual um this next one we think is really important and that is you know replacing Park infrastructure in kind because now that we have all this data it's going to be really difficult to to fund f Future Park improvements through through grants by just putting things back exactly where they were when they're so vulnerable to um current and and future flooding um and you know not really planning for the park um this Park's transition into the future so for the purposes of our our Workshop we moved forward with not moving forward with the the do nothing concept we'll leave that up to you um Al I was just going to spend a few minutes um on this existing slide again um some of the things that uh I wanted to mention that we think kind of held true as themes through all three concepts in different degrees and different geometries one we really wanted to honor the the madyan uh forms we you know no matter what the improvements that we proposed we still want it to look and feel like Masano Park and hopefully just a better more resilient version um we wanted to really improve both the visual and physical connection to the water you know something to point out Alex if you can kind of be show your mouse is just you know the the parking is right at the prime view of the of the park and um we don't think that was olmstead's Vision we understand that the the functionality of it so um exploring options for how we could relocate the parking potentially you know when when it's time at it's at the end of its life potentially do a more resilient location or a location that lets you take full advantage of all of the uh to maximize it the parks potential is something that was s of a guiding principle for us um we heard a lot about the need for flexibility making a park that's going to be usable for all ages and abilities so that was something that was also a guiding Focus for us and of course it had to have um a focus on resilience to maximize um the life of the park um but none of the concepts were a keep the water out um methodology we we do not believe that you'll be able to get it permitted um and so we wanted to demonstrate Park enhancements that we thought were resilient that would maximize the life of the park um and but be a realistic transition to what we know is coming you know by by 2070 so the other thing that we'll notice on on all of our plans we'll see that 2050 mean higher high water extents and you know our different plans integrate that level of resilience to to to varying degrees so with that Alex we can jump right into concept one as I mentioned before we one of the things that was really kind of guiding a lot of the the concepts was what do we do with the parking how aggressive can we be so in this first concept this is the closest to kind of the existing of what you have but what we did um is we we moved the parking further away from the point a little closer to the playground like one full 60 foot tray and we also peeled it back closer to kind of the harbor um to open up the the the visual and physical connection to the Waterfront from you know from the main part of the the park so um that was a goal in all of our Concepts this one we did it a little bit so this was sort of the lightest touch um in this particular case um this reconfigured parking we we actually added parking kind of adjacent to where the worker uh working Waterfront parking is um and then kind of just massage that existing lot to again open up the point that resulted in a net loss of four or five spaces so just being completely open about that this version um does uh lose a few spaces um we've elevated the Bandstand so where number four is basically the existing Bandstand location we've primarily kept that location for all of them because that is the existing High Point um within the park so a a slight elevation would maximize the band stands resilience into the future uh to the greatest extent possible so we think it's in the right spot we think doing a slight elevation and using the landscape around it to create a nice accessibility to it um make some sense and it would extend its life for as long as possible um we did hear the need to expand the park the playground area um so that is reflected uh it introduced some shade some um accessible surfacing um a lot of omand plans always have primary Green Space and secondary lawn areas so we were able to maintain that along with a large event lawn one of the key things we've heard which all the concepts reflect is taking away the back stop of the ball field and letting that open space be more flexible not to say that you couldn't still H have you know youth sport practices or or games in that field but in a little less formal way um but really to maximize the potential and flexibility of that green space um number eight that you see here as you can see that 2050 mean higher high water extent really penetrates into that green space you know in the next 25 years so we thought about adding an elevated Boardwalk section in that area that's really the most vulnerable to allow that tidal water to pass under and let that Boardwalk actually become a feature of the park where you'd be passing over water um and make that piece and that connectivity uh more resilient um number nine is another feature that we've done on every concept to varying degrees and that is really a a pulling back of the point um to make it a habitat expolation area so to have physical access to little title pools and and elements that can be done in a in a safe way but um really letting water be a a future feature of the park um and just adding kind of that level of ecology um as well as resilience it would still be structurally sound to be kind of Defense out at that point but done in a more natural way um and provide some Overlook seating um out at that point um really taking back that point is is a key um aspect to all the concepts and lastly um the future connection to the harbor walk from the the working Pier there we go to the next slide um this kind of shows you how that peeling back of the point would work um again each concept does it in varying degrees um but it essentially the red dash line represents the existing grade of what the point does so so this area this area here will be where the parking is um with Overlook opportunities there but then the ability um as The Tide Rises and then recedes to leave some water behind and some accessibility to get you all the way out at the point but really fun exploration area that's a feature in all of the concepts and this is demonstrating that inundation from that 2050 mean High higher high water um to really show how you know that Boardwalk connection can be made um but keeping the core elements of the park one of the features I forgot to mention was the bathroom and the harbor Master's office which would be located in this plan and number three so that I'll move on to concept B again we let parking Drive kind of the the beginning of each concept so um in this case we've relocated all the parking um in this area here and this one we have a net loss of zero so we basically had a wash uh of the parking count um the harbor master restroom building would be located in this area um the expanded playground Zone um elated Band Stand basically in its current location big event lawn kind of secondary Lawns and then similar to the other one uh a we've got the large elevated Boardwalk connection to account for that title inundation um we've peeled back the The Point again created some interesting Overlook areas the connection to the Future Harbor walk and then this one number 11 that would be um you know an Overlook lawn space kind of again give you more flexibility but right out at that premium view again you can see the extent of the the 2050 uh inundation and how that Boardwalk piece could become a a really a nice feature to allow the water to kind of pass under and still have the the bulk of your Park elements uh in resilient locations and lastly um concept c um which we believe was from the workshop standpoint ended up to be the preferred option um this locates the bulk of the parking parallel to Beach Street while still maintaining vehicular access for the working Waterfront as well as is offering a few temporary parallel spots off to the side of the point to still be able to kind of finish your coffee or take in that view or unload your vehicle to to to take out to your boat um to transfer to the dingy um dock um and again a lot of the same elements this parking configur configuration actually has um a a gain of about 10 spaces uh in total um so that that was an interesting component other uh features the the bathroom and harbor Master's office is located right there at the beginning with a pretty good view of the harbor um in a similarly we've expanded the playground areas but also were able to offer uh a smaller Tot Lot that was some of the feedback we got that it could be be great to kind of have a a larger kid in older kid playground and a smaller kid playground um but in close proximities for Parental supervision again the big open Event lawn elevated Bandstand but really this one really nicely gives the park kind of back to maximizing its waterfront um by pushing the bulk of the vehicles to the back again opening up peeling back um that point offering some interesting seating options to take in uh The View and then if we look at the 2050 mean higher high water um what this one really does probably the best of all of them um it pulls a lot of the internal walkways Inland out of that inundation line so at least over the next 25 years the bulk of your Park elements are are still relatively resilient um and going to maximize their their life for as long as possible but the other thing that concept SE does probably better than the rest is it really gives you a transition to the long term and if we look out to 2070 and understanding that in 2070 the Park's going to have twice a day complete inundation we know that Beach Street at some point will need to be elevated and potentially that offers the opportunity for that adjacent parking to be elevated if that was something that the town thought was a good idea in addition you could Elevate the working pier and the restroom and the harbor Master's office so that those could stay resilient while the rest of the park you know we would extend the boardwalk all the way over to the working Pier but the the park by 2070 would really need to transition to a nature preserve uh that could still be very Dynamic and interesting but it's just the realities of this of the science um but to to make um this this important landscape still something that's a valuable asset to the community Alex feel free to jump in if I mixed anything trying to get through it as quickly as possible to so we can answer as many questions yeah no you're doing a great great job Ian I think the only thing that had is that by having some of that enabling infrastructure with the boardwalk and Pathways in place earlier as part of maybe a phased approach to the transition um it would make the permitting long-term permitting of those areas that have already been you know previously established that much easier out into the future but I thought you did a nice job uh explaining that and then this yeah shows some of that um mean higher high water extense with a you know an elevated Beach Street here and one of the one last Point um that I forgot to mention is you know some of these moves for example making the big move to the parking you know theoretically that could be done in a phase time say you're existing parking area gets to the end of its life and rather than having to reconstruct it in its existing location maybe that would be the time to make that big move and some of these other improvements so we you know look forward to helping you figure out the best way to phase it to to to to make this is a reality and and try to maximize the the life of this beautiful Park thank you are there questions from the board John yeah so uh thanks thanks for the review very very good I had seen it before once I was involved a little bit with some of the walk arounds um I've got a question and I guess it applies to A and C what can can you tell me exactly what the the mitigation initiatives that would be involved in these and I you showing right there the boardwalk that's one um you're not proposing to elevate the Park so the Park's going to you know with raising Waters it's going to flood whenever it's going to flood but what are the initiatives that are really uh responding to or providing adaptation or mitigation to Rising Waters I saw you wanted to raise the Band Stand yeah the the the band The Band Stand uh is a big one and as Alex said the the the boardwalk um yeah out out on this uh if you go back to that last image Alex yeah the boardwalk that's extending um out you know running page right to page left um that is currently where that 2050 line comes in the most um so that would certainly be one of the first major mitigation moves um because if not those existing pathways on that section of the park are going to surely get undermined and be a constant maintenance nuisance um also the peeling back of the point um will naturally armor the point while still providing a feature whereas that's that area is also going to be particularly vulnerable um and ultimately lead to um you know the the lifespan of that zone um you know coming to an end faster than it than it normally would that's not changing elevation that's still where it's at and raising water are going to be wherever they're going to be yeah we're not holding back the C with any of these Alternatives yeah that's important important mention this you know concept C which is depicted in these three um in these 3D illustrations is the most aggressive in pulling back the internal walkways so that they're at least beyond that 2050 line of daily title inundation um whereas before you know th those are going to get impacted um you know much sooner and right and in in concept C you mentioned possibly raising the parking which I look as a mitigation issue we look out our back window here that's a problem a couple of times a year right I don't know where those cars go to be honest yeah but just to drive the point home um that elevated the elevation of the the parking lot would actually be contingent upon a future possible elevation of of Beach Street as well and you could tie into those grades so that's where that really does become um more of a viable option well when you say elevation is this like one or two feet yeah it depends on where where along Beach Street but yeah you're talking several feet of of elevation that you need more than one or two I mean say one foot because maybe that really is the difference right now between it's not one it's not one foot I can tell you yeah we have it detailed in in last year's plan um as far as those elevations but it's it is several feet in in some of those low-lying areas of Beach Street uh both here by the the Culvert and then um as you move down Beach Street past tapen um out towards singing Beach there's another uh saddle point in there that you need to address with several feet of elevation as well okay running for other questions from the board I think the presentation was excellent and they answered a lot of my questions along the way I'm I'm uneasy about having parking right along be street because although the park is fairly heavily used there are lots of other parks in town that are also heavily used and more people drive by there and destroying the view from Beach Street doesn't by replacing it with parked cars or Hedges doesn't seem to me like good plan I like that because I us an unbroken view okay as you're looking towards the harbor without uh a field of Park cars there and I think that it is E Street it is a street and pulling on and off of uh uh I think from safety point pulling in driv them around might be I I just think I just think that con SE looks like it's that's so I had a question when you come into masomo park now on the leftand side isn't there a strip of conservation land there now or no is that wrong you say conservation land left hand side coming in isn't some of that land tied up or no where yeah okay no I had to look at the the GIS maps and that's that's all just Town land and not that's my understanding yes okay all right yes Isabella dates to Masano Street I went to the final presentation and saw the ab andc and I have been doing uh a taichi class in the Rotunda and uh so I've been imagining and walking around this and what I really love about approaching this is we're not being ostriches and putting our head in the sand and saying this isn't going to happen it is going to happen and I really quite love the uh elevated walkway idea but one thing they did not mention which is that by 2070 because of the ocean inundation there will be no more trees because they will have all been taken out by salt and therefore it will be much more of a kind of a you know swampy grassy area like this and so it will be quite transformed but it is an entirely new adventure with the elevated walkway that continues to give us recreational space and stuff like that and I truly love the idea of getting rid of the parking lot at the end I I I know going by on Beach Street you nice to look over but much better to walk out onto the park and have an unobstructed view of the harbor I as I've been living in the park with this idea it seems better than better I I'll just quickly add if if you want to get a look at what it will look like in the future um you can you can point your phone at this QR code and It'll point you right into the um the Rotunda there and you can actually Zoom around um on your phone while folks are making additional comments uh Becky Jes 22 forer Road um and I I wanted when did the town do we know when the town actually started using masomo as Playing Fields so they showed some of that history at the beginning which I missed yeah I want to say as early as the 30s did we see it the next one yeah so Greg we have an open field at 34 and then in the 50s is when we saw just a little bit of a Playfield that's actually kind of hidden from view but as you move into the 60s that's where you actually see the formal baseball field I might suggest I haven't seen it being used as a baseball field I my son was the last one than you um what do we need what direction do they need well so so their next steps are to finalize I think Chuck has his hand now um the Alex and his team needs to finalize the report um and obviously if if there is one particular option that is preferred over the other that opinion would be helpful to be expressed in the report um if if you're if you're in position to do so to give that guidance yeah my comment was kind of kind of be in the same vein was you know I don't think we we need like any sort of decision so I just want to make it clear to anybody in the crowd or you know at home or you know watching this a week from now you know we're we're not going out to do Implement any of these things you know tomorrow uh you know there's they're certainly you know good to get this feedback and that I think was the bigger idea behind you know talking to you guys tonight getting this kind of historical record you know when we look back and you know a year or two when we pull this off the shelf you know what what were we thinking at the time you know things changed and we'll be picking it up to kind of Bring It those next steps in kind of that time frame you know because you know we all know there's there's a lot going on there's a lot of competing interests you know both for this area in space but also other projects that we have kind of in the pipeline for the harbor so you know all those things are being taken into account and we're kind of you know this is just you know making sure that we're bringing everything along in its in its due time so I just want to make sure that was out there yeah Sarah Sarah Katon 37 Proctor Street um I just wanted to Echo Ann's point about that we were asked on the planning board all the time to look at views and I think views from the to to Isabella's point the views from inside the park are improved with the plan C but more people view it from along Beach Street and I think the renderings to me look like Newport um and um I think having all that parking as the thing you see first is very antithetical to what we've been that the vision and I don't have a good solution for a um maybe a hybrid um and I also remain optimistic that maybe there would also be a building in that V View Corridor with the harbor Masters and that we can the community center or some other option will be found um and I know this isn't decision about that but I think that the view from Beach Street um currently doesn't see the cars and I understand the problem with putting them on the point night so uh adding 10 cars you know take those 10 cars away at least for here this isn't the best place for parking nor do I have a solution for where to find 10 additional parking spaces recognizing the the challenge there but you know if we could uh keep Green Space right up against Beach Street um at least for some of it maybe push the parking off to to the left or something um but I you know the biggest comment on cell signaling is what we're going what it's going to look like from 128 and here we have a play a iconic View at the harbor where the first thing you look through is is parked pars suggest something to the board the the common thread of all of the plans is the boardwalk and I believe the boardwalk is in the same place on all three um generally generally yes um I think we can all agree that the boardwalk would be an improvement and would give us something that is in place that we could that we could maintain yeah I I was going to go in the same direction and I believe that you know peeling back the point seems to be a theme on all three um love that idea um the concept of um multiple um uh Terraces if you will or multiple Fields a large one and one or two smaller ones I think is great um perhaps a solution or compromise on the parking can be found by you know breaking it up a little bit right um it would be wonderful to have 10 more spaces but um you know there are other ways we may be able to accomplish that and if you have a beautiful Park maybe more people will walk there so um I'm not opposed osed to parking directly on Beach Street um especially if one of the options we choose is you know having the playgrounds near there I think that's also convenient for families you know you park you have your playground there if you just want to run in for a few minutes with the kids and let them blow off steam um you know that that's nice to have the parking and the playground right there so I think there's opportunities for compromise but I think you're correct if we could focus on agreeing on some of the common elements and then um what I'd like f on to do is help us understand the um phases of the project not sequentially but so much as what are the things that we could do separately right and then when we get together with Chuck and and fincom and try to figure out the financials will have multiple pieces represented some sort of stepwise exactly so that's what I'd like to get out of this next okay presentation is what are the multiple pieces and rough so we can figure that into our planning no I think with regard to the parking maybe there's some sort of a blend between concept B and concept C I think that's what Kathy was kind of getting into have a little bit that goes along the water's edge and then just go up Beach Street a little bit frankly the best view of Beach Street is the further out you go because there are fuer obstructions and you really see the tidal area once you start to get the trees you can't see anywhere near as much but you see green you see green okay um is that sufficient Direction yeah Alex your team you're getting enough feedback here yeah this is really helpful and we we just really appreciate the time and um I do see Nate's hand raised I don't know if you want to get him in there Greg yep so I was just going to say that uh so we currently have CBC funding to evaluate uh kind of the next uh phase of the current walkways and you know hearing there does seem to be you know uh a lot of positive support for the you know an elevated walkway um I think where I'm thinking is that we could take that you know this kind of support and start vetting out the walkway and using that CPC funding to determine you know what's going to be required it is going to be you know somewhat of a permitting heavy lift um to get you know if we do a pile supported walkway uh the benefit of you know doing pile supports is that the initial permitting would be the heaviest lift and then in future years when we have to say raise the walkway you know as uh you know water comes up it would be much less uh you know heavy lift on the pering um so if that's something we you know we want to do you know in the near term um you know we could use that CPC funding to start that effort of the design layout uh and you know potentially permitting for that type of a walkway um thank you very much um we're a little bit behind and i' I'd like to get started on um the uh way finding if we way so thank you I'm sorry I'm terrible Alex Alex Alex Alex very nice presentation thank you as well thanks everyone thank you have a great night okay you have your presentation on laptop I do may I share your people with you just thank you [Music] screen all right you should be able to Great screen there and and uh given that we're 10 minutes behind you want me to carve 10 off just be sure need for people to comment plenty of time for them to comment and and we we have all read all this the de yes so okay go ahead so um hello everybody and I see that we have Mark faerman our consultant online as well as um Lauren uh from Stock Exchange who was part of the team there's Jim Brown who was uh part of our team as well as uh Rosemary is also here part of our stor uh District commission Becky and myself we've got other team members Beth Bravo by the Sea who's not here right now but she was a a willing participant so um with that I will I will give myself um M share uh let's see it looks like we're still disabled no you should be co-host the share screen option poost has disabled screen sharing could you take your computer over and give it to him yeah the deck actually I think if if someone who knows how to do this we're looking at it might might be easier well the deck is in our presentation there yeah you can pull it up share it in a PDF I don't I don't know why it's not it's always shares co-host did you make me the co-host because I'm right here on 1626 I'm on the wrong Zoom I'm on one of the other Town zooms 16176 not Marlene Dolan that if that's on that happens to me my husband embarrassingly okay yeah that could be it so 16 was 76 that's what you need to be a c okay yeah solves it that would that would explain sorry about that guys I'll make it up thank you very much sir okay right okay what do you know excellent um so hello and welcome um I've got a a a small deck here for you to look at its um basically a deck that's separated into three parts part one is kind of just gives you the context of why we're here at all why do we end up with a wayfinding presentation part two is um meeting our commitment of having two different options for the town to consider uh if if they do choose to go with a way finding solution for the town for our um visitors and uh part three is just a initial recommendation on six signs that we would recommend you uh step into the water with so those are the three parts of the uh presentation I'm going to zoom right through um all of The Upfront stuff and if there's questions about that we can um people can just speak up if that's all right raise your hand right okay so so um this this basically is just a screenshot of a report so those that are new to this board um that was presented in 2023 um by the Civic space collaborative and they had uh looked at a number of things for our town one of which was wayf Finding and you can see that in the yellow so this presentation is specifically reporting on that one bullet um the main things that they were trying to they recommended that we solve for is you know people traveling in from 128 who doesn't who don't know the place uh there really is no signage on how to get to the town center um and I will say that M Municipal parking lots and the pathway from town I'm just going to skip around a little bit here are things that people wanted uh highlight to highlight and uh I'll just continue right okay so this is you can slow down just a little bit it's okay okay up front is there anything any questions on this page I just I don't want to I don't want to do a Death March through this guys okay so I did want you to see this page because the key thing that uh we wanted to make sure you were aware of is that because this is signage that has to do with wayf finding we needed to talk with our business owners in town of which we did and other people and um we got a great amount of feedback from them that was quite helpful in formulating our um opinion and uh thank you to Beth and Lauren for that so four things here so the target population for this our visitors to Manchester by the Sea we were due to have it done in June we did it in 5 months and the deliverable is uh two options and a draft plan what is out of scope for This was um broader Community involvement meaning let's go shop this out to the community see what they like we used this group uh that we brought together as the shop and Mark faberman as our um expert and then we all know that many people feel we have too many signs in town we're overs signed and if you are of that opinion um we would recommend that uh there's something done about which signs we before we add more in or concurrently right okay so this these next few pages are kind of marked wanted me to show you kind of a quick sweep of how did we finally get to our opinion and he ask the whole group to to go through one word two words three words in terms of what describes Manchester then he asked us about colors um he asked us about symbols or landmarks and you can see rotunda Town common cage Point um and then uh he asked what do you think about braided Street furniture and for the most part the group feels that there's too much there's too many benches already and there's not a lot of room for uh street art or Street Furniture um finally uh these are just in in our new planning is there is Mark here yes hi I've never seen you in person so Mark took this away uh these aspirational things these were things that came up in the meeting they're not part of our scope but he took these away to do what he thinks is right so uh with that um Rosemary you're going to be our uh you're you're going to be you're going to be the reasoning behind the choices of these two options uh so we looked Mark was very U generous in showing us many communities options how they chose from their history from their architecture from their landscape emblematic signs and he encouraged us to look in our own community and find things that you shown on the previous list the harbor the common rotunda and we all really gravitated toward the Rotunda as an iconic and really favored symbol of the community more than um something like the Arbella well we have that on the T seal and we looked at the weather Bane on top of the library is potential we really found that this um this spoke to everybody and and we were unanimous in choosing this the sign simple so this is option one it's called a color rendering of the building um Mark also developed this is what is called a family of elements how's that for new terminology that we learned along the way and you know to the far left is typically what you might see for entering the town type of sign maybe on 128 way up there um you know that's a you know this is Who We Are and then you can see the various other kinds of signs that one might choose to locate in town so that's option one color so uh this is what we call a silhouette rendering uh same concept it's the Rotunda and um we wanted to choose this option just because it was still the Rotunda but also if the town felt that it wanted to have something more graphical like this or wanted to uh use this uh on people's shirts or you know the whatever it's less expense you know there's other ways to go it and some people really would prefer less color so I will tell you that the team uh personally like number one uh the best and that's why they put that first um but we think this is also a very good option so let me just pause there and take comments concerns and accusations I I have a question yes um so we have our professional designer on the call yes we do so um both of the signs in my opinion they look great both options they look terrific um I think we need to remember that there is a functional reason why we are looking at having signs so if I'm driving I don't have a lot of time to look at the words you know you got a so my question of the professional is which option is best for quick reading of the words is one is one better than the other because I'd like to focus on function for a minute so so before we talk about function I'd like to talk about Aesthetics as well as function and in both these cases I The Branding uh exercise we went through and even when we talked about aspirational ideas led us to want to do something very very elegant and I feel that what we've come up with really reflects uh what Manchester byy is and in terms of readability um they both are readable um it is a quick read we we will limit any kind of directional um elements that is to four and then uh we'll have a hierarchy of signs in terms of sizes that will get you from one place to the other if does that answer the question so you're saying there really is no difference and you know if I'm driving by a sign 25 miles an hour I'm not going to um absorb the information on one side versus another better probably not okay that was my question so I I've got another question so are we looking at these signs in the context of people in a car and not people walking this is all both both both they're both so there's different element sign the family of elements allows you to have more that are pedestrian oriented as opposed to vehicular oriented okay well vehicle can always be read by by a pedestrian but it doesn't work the other way around true so um all of these are expected to be read by a by people in a car general not all not some yeah for example um the when you look at these family I'm making it smaller so you can see the comparison between the to um so the two uh right here uh that are you know I'm circling those are really uh for pedestrians so for example if we chose to do one between the walkways we might choose something smaller like this because you're walking um we might just want you know those are the decisions you'd have to go through um but for the most part Mark we had said because we asked this question all signs would be able to be read by pedestrians and except for a couple they would all be read by vehicular due to the the proportions of even the small ones that Marlene circled there if that had a PE on it and an arrow you could see that easily from a car and parking finding parking is is an issue clearly that is was discussed at length can you see the silhouette of the here these are some pretty large Heights as well as Dimensions this is a two [Music] scale Becky um just Becky Jak was part of the way finding gr um the questions asked about um readability and size we we definitely went over all of that um and tried to make sure that we were Prim addressing cars initially that so that it's it's more for people who are not familiar would you agree Rose Mar yeah and and really the the to me a lot of this was about Public Safety as you drive into the town the roads turn they get narrow there's parked cars there's pedestrians there's people with strollers there's people on bikes and you don't want people looking at their phones for directions you want people looking at the road and seeing a sign that confirms what they may have seen on their phone earlier on their on their Journey but when they get into the hay carry downtown they're really not looking at their phones or their GPS they're looking for a sign to give them that last mile last last yard destination so the first time that I ever came to Manchester by the city was several decades ago and it was by train and there there I had to ask you know which way was it to singing Beach so I can walk with my towel down to the beach but these family of elements will reinforce Direction re will reinforce a sense of arrival and reinforce a sense of place yes I I'm very appreciative of having these two o options side by side because the left one the colored one I find way more welcoming and friendly the other one even looks downright ominous there's a certain dark V vad to look I I find I found the one on the left to be very and this is a funny word but uh Harbor and beachy to me yeah as well you know it feel there's a a joy to it that that the other one doesn't necessar Express in the same way yeah I I really like the the color rendering but I can see where the silhouette might work maybe not on signage but other you're saying yeah other things sure that you don't want to print full color um so will we be retiring some signage to new signage that's no kidding Brown that's that's the goal in mind yes yeah okay because we started looking at that I think that was John right speaking um Jim Brown part of the downtown Improvement committee and um I was kind of involved with this but we did start looking at that I I uh have a a few photos that I've taken already our goal would be at some point to make a presentation to the Selectmen with some suggestions for signage that may be redundant or or might be able we may be able to get rid of um also just a comment on the walking versus driving the placement of these signs will also determine what type of sign so as you get closer to town where there'll be more pedestrians um that's where we decided um to use you know we' use the smaller signs you'll see as the presentation goes on but as you're driving into town that's where the largest signs you'll be driving faster and um there'll be less fewer P pedestrians potentially or um so we also kept that in mind let's let's continue continue okay um so the next uh piece was what are all what are all the types of we went through what are the things that we might want to point out on signs and let me minimize this thank you Rosemary um so on the left are the there's two columns which we chose the column left are as things that we would pick up as a wayf finding team and not get into all the other things on the right and I won't walk you through chapter and verse as to why we decided as such but again knowing there are so many signs in town what are the least few things that will answer and Lauren you can speak to this what our patrons uh sorry our shop owners are finding which is people get off the train and they actually do not know how to get to sing Beach they do not know uh where they might get something to eat unless they're steering at Bravo thank God or they don't know that there's a Boer count street because they think Town ends at the top of the corner so these are things that our you know people visiting town and um we want to increase business for our our shop owners so we have six signs recommended for phase one and the first two basically are at at the at one this if you can get a view of this this is at the bottom of School Street coming off the 128 School Street exit and this is at the bottom of Pine Street coming off the 128 exit and we chose those two areas because those are basically the two heaviest traffic places that people come into town who are visitors people coming along 127 certainly but they're probably more local and um this is your decision point for where to go and we so those are two places that we recommended so I can't read from here what you had on those signs I can tell you um hold is that in the table on the slide it's in the table on the SL um so at the Pine Street exit we would point to the left for Downtown parking Beach and one to the right for tux point that would take care of it at um the school street at Junction of Cal Central it would be pointing to shops both ways parking beach dining and uh tux point so there would be five on that kind of a sign and what you're what you're seeing here is these are what's called I think Mark directory sign so the the most you can have on one of those is six without driving somebody crazy then um the other major point that we picked is right the middle of town and it's hard to see this but this is the Crosby's the wall in front of Crosby's coming down Beach Street to town and again this is for people coming you know in that you know upfront would be the same kind of thing you know the beach restrooms shops dining Etc and we also have one right here um in front of in general Mari and the water company um that would catch people coming in on 127 to tell them which way to which and pedest and pedestrians Sprite and then finally um we want to highlight the walkway between the parking lot of town hall and center of town so that people can know that it's fine to use that parking lot and get to town quickly so those are the six signs they're outlined in this deck right here to show you whereabouts they would go and um we did a general estimate of what that might cost and it looks like it's about $45,000 but that just is um a a good estimate at this point and I believe that's it to add to that estimate installation may be um additional depending on the sign fabricator and and installation process but those are pretty much up toate signage uh this is a project that you can get very high visibility for it's a capital project at a low budget that has the highest um visibility so it's an important uh project um Manchester by SE actually won a competition to get uh this Consulting service from the state um because it is the most desirable uh grant that communities apply for every year so I just wanted you to know that I think there was only winners already there was only six chosen for this year is that right Mark uh there were yeah I think there were five actually yeah so kind of left out go ahead John yeah so I've got a question and that's coming south on 127 I don't know what the signs are at Washington and summer in other words people that don't know where they're going are they directed to go down Washington and bypass so the people that know where they're going are going down summer in front of cros and they know where they're going that's why they went that way yes and the other people I just wondering if there needs to be a sign in front of the real realtor there because of the you know that's a stop sign at the end of Washington before you then merge onto Central or I guess it's it's Central you're on Central I think marene North Coast think Mary yeah yeah yeah the the old sax thing it coming down 127 and keeping people off of that residential street all got we have control see I don't know what signage it is there and if you don't know the area which way are you going you're going to bear and go down the hill or you're going to go up Washington I don't so we had uh the state has signed at 127 is going down Washington all right something to think about but when we are making the sign that's coming in oh sorry we had a sign that was near the uh the 1600 cemetery and we were going to because we don't want to get them all jammed down the residential area we were going to point them down summer to town so as to relieve our neighborhood and then John to your point we were then you don't need one sign at the end you're going to solve it up we did yes so we we I didn't know if you would like to have a sign at that location but that's an option so um you mentioned driving we've been talking a lot about this what about the people coming off the train right now they go straight to Bravo and ask directions so I I love all of what's been recommended thus far I still don't see how any of these signs help that problem problem it's funny you should say that um they they don't actually and uh there's two ways we thought about solving for that one is a concept that's in process right now which is um kind of like the walking maps that you can get as a tourist that shows what all that is and they can get that online or their QR code or it's pasted on the side of the community center on the train station so there'd be something there and then another would be we'd plop a sign somewhere right in right in that parking lot near the station I notic that all the other places where you put signs are public property yes um the train station is it's not our it's not ours to pick the train isn't ours the parking lot isn't ours the parking lot for the train isn't even ours yeah commity C trick question well we did talk about phases because of the cost and the number of signs and the potential visual impact of having I think we came up with 20 locations put sign we car so it just seemed like a lot to start with 20 vacations I think I think you could you could you know set them up and take a look at what information is on them I I think your approach here that is being presented is very minimal most towns and cities would do 20 or 25 signs to begin with and remove a lot of the redundancy uh immediately uh the worst example of a redundancy is in the town or city of Salem and they have signs they put up every five years but they never take down any of the old ones so you have layers of signs historically placed there re part was the other yeah par the with the boat traffic yeah exactly and I think it did public did we choose public uh doc as one or the public um but we could we we did talk about that um we did not choose the public boat launch or public dock okay if you have you can add a sign to have that there or have one that says Museum and library to I mean all the all these are possible so last talking about our pedestrian all the other ones really are largely driving yeah for those of you that attended the quarterly uh chamber of business meeting last week we discussed putting temporary sandwich boards with QR codes a QR code at the dogs um and at the train station um and so we actually have that in process we order ordered the the sandwich boards on Friday I have a meeting tomorrow at the chamber to talk about a potential landing page or um how we're going to do that thank you let's try and focus on what we're doing here rather than but this might this might fall into that because we may be I'm going to sit down with Marlene and suggest that that is part of the signage we've done a lot of work and spent a lot of money at directing people um to the docks to to come into town and it would be nice if they could get off of the docks and know where to go and the same with the train right now um so I think it is part of this we just really didn't put that much thought into it into the docks quite frankly um but I think it is important and I believe it should be part of this project the question um so this these signs are great for helping people find places not so much finding parking it's in there is there am I missing parking is the focus of this yeah that was um wherever there is so there's there's basically going to be parking to be had at Masano at the town I just I was looking at the design of the signs and they have that's no I know that I'm looking you're actually looking at the sign at the signs okay like this like with this yes I'm trying to I know the big p but that one was not checked off you know because we could decide the reason why I didn't check that off is because we were going to put parking on to minimize signs again and it's not because this town is right needs to have slow change as we all know just for clarification of what my question is I'm looking at the slide it has the six red check marks of the recommended signs yep yep that one yes thank so that check mark over that C1 C1 and two are kind of interchangeable so you might decide that um for example we were going to have a sign that's right before um or right near the entrance to the town parking lot lot on either other side of the driveway we would just put the big pee there that's that's what I'm asking about because I it I do think we need to help people find the appropriate parking spots so that they're not wasting their time circling around resident parking only streets the D signs also could have a pee on them with an arrow right and the other ones just look so small like I said I'm just thinking of people driving well they're they're they're 18 inches high by 15 inches so so they're not they're not that small but that's what you would see for a um a No Parking sign in in a lot of communities that's below the other side just yeah yeah what's good about this system is it allows total flexibility so you you know if if uh it could be figured out how to put u a sandwich board at the train station maybe we could figure out how to put a a directional sign there as well I'm not sure you know that the MBTA is very um not generous with their their their their um cooperation so see um I wanted to just uh make note that the business owners involved um are the ones who are asked constantly how do I do this that or the other yeah they're asked for Singing Beach they're asked for restrooms and Lauren what was the third or marleene restroom singing Beach and oh where to eat food where to get food so ask for they ask for what to where they can get coffee where they can get lunch okay where they Park where's their more shopping like they don't know to go go up around the corner so thank you Lord that's why what we did when you when you look at the deck and you see the signs the items on the signs reflect what has the questions most frequently Asked of business owners I guess I didn't see how you would find um laal which is in One Direction and boerd which is in the opposite arrows in both directions SL dining what what what I ran into when I was a stranger in a place was a a sign that had a map with restaurant name shop name now I understand you can do that with yes we can we thought about putting one of those right in the middle of town um because then you could walk up to it and look at it and see we're all you know coffee and lunch and all that and that too would probably be I mean I ideally suited for the grassy null in front of where the gas station is because it's kind of right there or near the train you know where people are walking off the train across from we park or somewhere there honestly that feels like a maintenance nightmare yeah and having experience doing this kind of stuff I think you got to think about what it is you're going to maintain like a shopping mall yeah yeah we would want an electric okay okay the electric electronic now is so much easier to update you're right they are that also needs to be maintained and someone needs to be responsible for it we thought we discussed that we didn't think that it was necessarily appropriate for um the the ambience of the existing Ambience of Manchester by the Sea because digital those digital signs are are I'm not talking about the digital sign I'm talking about a QR code on a nice QR codes can go on any of these yeah exactly that's that's my point yeah yeah ined you can't see them it's Terry comman has a okay Terry evening Terry cman and bike and pedestrian committee we've reviewed this and commend the work that the team has done it's excellent um couple of suggestions if we could extend the MBTA platform so that it connected to the street and the crosswalk that was recently installed there might be an option then for people not to cross the parking lot the active parking lot walk to the end of the train platform and cross uh the street and assign potentially there at Reed Park and that's one two um as you all know Pine streets um well with the Culver project Pine Street's going to be a significantly different operation in 25 so perhaps you want to think ahead to installation of that particular sign might be delayed or you you're going to have to cover it some way shape or form in about a year when that uh that major project takes place because the directions are going to be totally different from some period of time so otherwise excellent plan we endorse it thank you what do you need from us um for you to as a board please let us know which uh which view you prefer uh for signage and um in consideration of the recommendations of some signs and I I think there were very valid points about the parking and the and the people coming off the train adding something in let us know how you would like to proceed uh in terms of getting any of these made um do we have a preference among the signs among the color versus blue and back blue I like the color one visually appealing okay I I no honestly reflects the uh kpn license plate okay I I think we will go with just a consensus that we prefer the color um should we mock one up perhaps an so that you can look at one and see how you like it in life or um I think you're not currently considering signs foro the the 228 exits is that right uh no we did uh we did note them on the map um and uh what we would recommend um is that uh if you did want to have kind of like a sign that said here you are Manchester you you're here even though it says it already on the sign the green signs we would recommend two of these ENT Gateway signs um one on the right coming to town on Pine and one on the right coming in just having an arrow indicating which way you go to get there yes good point those those are not the things we're currently looking at we're currently looking at no but that is a good point when you're coming up school do you go left or right to Manchester um yeah if you you're talking about one of the of F and Central and Bridge yeah um and that would indicate taex point in One Direction and the rest of town in the other direction One at school and um Union in Central and that would probably have restaurants in both directions shops both ways okay parking both ways or mostly to the you could decide because parking is down on Mascoma and there is also parking along the street you can't go wrong no matter what you do I know tell people there are stuff in both Direction okay did you have a plan for signs to indicate the cut from the town hall parking lot that's a good question at both ends yes we did in fact um those uh of the few signs that we recommended we're recommending one in front of the capan you know right where the current ply little thing is which everybody makes fun of better than what was there before no no kidding and then there would be one at the walkway uh that's we have to decide on that because will people calling into that parking lot know to Look Backwards to come you know if they're not new cuz the cut through is right against where the uh water treatment plant and what is masona yeah so we'd have to figure out how to I I would hope to you know Nate and um to see what his recommendations would be as a civil engineer we we had talked about um having um something more along the lines of a kiosk in the parking lot um not one of those electron but but something that that could maybe show a map of the downtown with the direction to the walkway and the shops and dining again parking lot up update well no we don't have to put down specifically what the facil what what restaurants and shops things that map that's showing where the TR train Beach walkway Q code exactly I think that would be very helpful actually because I remember the first time I tried to take compuer rail I'm like walking all over the place how do I get where's the platform it's not it's not easy but it wasn't when we talked about that we felt um that it it might not be um welcome to have a large kiosk on the common can you show a picture of and that way once you get into the major parking lot then there's more specific information yeah oh so it's a flat two-sided sign but it's pretty large double yeah it's huge yeah so but but you can we can do maps and where would that go the park I mean it's not I'm sorry I back here yeah yeah thank and that again I think was maybe phase two you know we want to do it all in Phase One we're fine with that we just wanted to gently like get the town used to having this um so that it would be welcome maybe the flexible budget of DPW so that we could have a little without having to wait for another fisc year what okay you're noding your head we're not talking a huge money here so you think we could put up the the sex science there possible just to do find cost so we would like to get a closer estimate based on the the color picture yes um I think the signs that you've recommended size and signs that you've recommended for those locations seem appropriate personally I would add a parking just at the entrance to the town hall I agree and I also think that what was brought up here um and I it's a I should have had a V8 moment what you said people coming off the train they need something right there and we have to solve for that uh we were always hoping that the community center would be a visitor you know that that would attract people there there could be indoor maps there could be a thing there that was we were hoping in that direction um but uh you know we can also think about the signage um is B to consider just going ahead finding money out of a d DPW account for six signs for six signs yeah plus that told it more than six or we just well phase one is six but you you you discuss many more I I would leave it a little bit open and then try to develop a budget and see what it what fits and then you you phase them according to your budget but I you you've already added four or five more to this with parking and and uh location near the train station and and you even the parking lot at Town Hall um so you you've added quite a few so I would I would not um restrict you at this point and let us come up with these elements and show them to everyone and say does this work as another aspect to this so so we're we're at crunch time because we're at the end of the fisal year um yeah so we just need to do this in the next week yeah so what I would recommend is um I would our best thinking is those six I think we should add in and it's not a lot of money that notion of uh parking make sure we have two Wellmark parking signs for the town lot and I think we need to come up with something also not expensive for the train so that would mean um if you're looking at costs uh figure fourth you know because these are all in ranges um figure 4,000 to 5,000 is the range if you round up here um if we were to add one more uh you know somewhere in around the train maybe of this size that's another 500 and if we were add another parking sign that's another 500 so it' be a th so if you added a th there now these these numbers should be looked at I'd also consider f as a very flexible sign for pedestrians so we have some money that has to be spent by the end that we can spend before the end of the fiscal year I got to sit up with Chuck I'm assuming we can taking Chuck money out of Chuck's pocket one way or the other I think we could find $6,000 $6,000 that's about it I that would be great that's that's is that with DPW doing the installation I'm sorry is that with the DPW doing the installations those are prices for signs not installation right they would install Does it include the poll Mark uh yes okay thanks okay so just one last question here so what what signs are disappearing let's not disappear that was the walkway signs disappear yes well that's enough for now do I have a motion to umer way finding group we put together a package of six eight signs one two for parking and the six that they've described no um and to arrange to have them installed um with the moneys that are Curr some moved uh friendly Amendment the colored option the colored option I second on that we ready to discuss we ready to vote ready to vote good John yes answer says yes Kathy says yes Brian says yes yes okay great job thank you very nice job work work with work with Chuck and Greg and figure out how to make this happen you got it shall do great thank you thank okay Mark I think the is now yours okay well it's mine and members of the planning board so U at the last planning board meeting well as you know for all year we had the tax for plan board working on EMA zoning so that we can comply with the the new mandate new state B and uh at the last planning board meeting they voted to submit to your board the draft of the zoning that would allow the to toly with the law um what the planning board's now asking select board to do is bothe to forward that draft uh to um e hlc the executive office ofing ilable communities for a preliminary review for compliance with the law and uh and we do that um within 90 days hope a little quicker so that we can get comments back to make final edits uh prior to the submitt to the select board to be on the warrant or the fall town so um we the draft that was sent out to select board was reviewed by uh Town Council we forwarded that to them um had some discussions with them on that and we have that gra the red line ver I believe Jonathan Murray are Council there he is um is is on as well in case there are any legal questions that you may have well the first question I have is that we were said something by the planning board and now we have something else well what you have mostly is is um just some legal editing by Town Council not um I guess what I'd like to hear from from the planning board members who are here whether they have seen those comments whether they think that that sign anything significantly changes what they approve such that we should she should go back and and approve what they approved well I'll just say that um this is a what we're asking for is the permission to submit to hlc um so that's the first thing this isn't a endorsement of this you know so this is a procedural vote um I I uh uh it's not maybe we can hear from Jonathan if there any substantive change substantive changes I think the board will probably make find final tweaks based on Town council's review but it's my understanding it wasn't um anything terribly substantive so Chris has looked at it yeah I looked at it carefully and I think it's fine to send to the state I think there are some tws are going to happen along the way of course and and and after it comes back and even between now and when it comes back we probably there'll be more tweaking yes of course so this isn't done done this isn't done doneal this is the general structure of what we're talking about doing we're trying we sending it to the state to have them say no you you're way out of bounds here or what you what you're doing fits our model I I guess the thing that concerns me is the last last page 593 to 595 this this seems like a I'm not sure I understand what the change is ah um our current bylaw says that all zoning changes are 230 the state has Chang their regul their requirements and this is asking the town to adopt that officially we have in the past had um recent past had um resting changes that were by no we didn't take advantage of that we proposed some but never got time okay fine I knew it been discussed so so where are bylaws say one thing this would change our bylaw right far as it the states this would make our state our bylaw conform with the state state right now we don't what happens if the people in town don't want to do that then we have to pass everything yeah thank you madam chair um Jonathan Mari from KP law so the the change that I'm seeing here in number three is as the chair indicated the legislature amended the zoning act to um require only a simple majority vote for certain types of zoning amendments um so this would bring the bylaw consistent with the zoning act um say for example there was a special town meeting tomorrow and we had a zoning Amendment um that could qualify for a simple majority under the zoning act you could still proceed not withstanding your local bylaw because the state statute would control so this is really a kind of housekeeping measure in my view to bring your bylaw in Conformity with the state act I'm not saying I don't do or don't want to do that but I what I see is this thing going to town meeting and someone wanting to make an amendment here to keep it the way it is so so I also think it might be advisable to had this as a separate article yeah and say at the beginning at the beginning or at the end well but yeah the beginning would make more sense because it would been yes you know what you're voting I think Sue Has thought about this I have um so work anybody doesn't know on the planning board so the issue is um bottom of vote it's called and it's the state law now that many um amendments to zoning are subject to a majority vote whether people like it or not that's the law and this change would simply make our bylaws conform to state law right now they don't um and we need to keep changing our bylaws so that they do conform the state law um one thing that is important on Greg's point in doing it as a separate warrant article I agree that each of these changes should be separate warrant articles um because for example the change to the marijuana uh distribution requirements that's not a zoning change that can be decided by a simple majority that does require two3 so if we lump it together with the MBTA zoning um that wouldn't be a good idea I think it would be much easier for everyone to understand if each of them were drafted separately yeah I I mean I like the idea of splitting it up do I IES questions on the same same let me interrupt just slightly to say that the purpose of this is not to put it in front of town meeting right this is a gra for the purpose of having the state review it and tell us whether where we are relative to their understanding of of 483a it's a compliance check it's a perod The question is is it good enough to go forward for a compliance check I guess it's just something down the road yeah is is the state going to review the marijuana issue even though it's the last paragraph here or they they're really looking at this from an MB perspective that's it actually s they will the municipal law unit will review it because you're sending it simultaneously to the municipal law unit and hlc and they will review that to make sure it is consistent with state law not having to do with the m and in fact they're going to review our entire zoning bylaw I think hlc will hlc will be re to see if there are any pieces in our zoning bylaw that are not corrected to be [Music] comp so right now the state says that voting with regard to regulation of marijuana businesses a 2third vote so when they come back with their comments they make certain comments on the NBTA but this they will say no you can't do this because if we submit this as it is we're saying that's a majority vote well I think we go are we are we getting caught in the weeds here yeah yeah I I just it doesn't make any difference what they say on that we're going to focus on the NB all care about at this point is to make sure that the the the the 4 4 a 3A we're complying uh conceptually we hit hit the marks that corre yes everything else is housekeeping later on but I think there's other stuff involved here that people are thinking at this right I think what I would suggest is because you're right Jeff you know there's a lot of nitty-gritty detail what I would suggest is I believe this is goody enough to go forward for a compliance check what we should also discuss though is let's backtrack from a potential town meeting date okay and commit to having a clean copy to review okay far in advance of when we have to approve a warrant okay that's what I'd like to see because I I think we're all talking about valid details but we're goingon to have to rediscussed the state feedback yet so I think this is good enough but let's set timeline that we are going to commit to so we're not getting stuff last minut so so to that point I don't think we should wait right until the end of August or September to to work on some of these details need to keep going even though we don't have all of the state fins some of these details are independent of their exact yes discussed MTA Zing 443a everything else is so let's get this in front of the state yes we need to from a timing perspective we need to get it in front of the state because they in their regulations they say they have 90 days to do the review so we really want to try and get that Jack l so that we have all of September to discuss any commment things submit uh we'll have the me this a lot of you comments beforehand before that Jonathan has indicated that he had his hand up I wondered if that might happen quicker yeah to the town planner's Point um just for the board's information um the eohc has strived to get their comments back within 90 days based off of our experience in the spring you should know that it's closer to the 90day mark rather than before um and even if you you know we've had exam instances of the most perfect zoning bylaw ever but eohc still has comments so just just for the board's information it the the sooner you can get it in I think the the better it is just because you're giving yourself that cushion in the fall to make changes have your planning board hearing and then address any um comments that hlc has so we can run currently then right planning board currently with these other comments that's I think an ideal scenario is to have a final version by the 1 of October that's going to be really tight it's going to be very tight but then that would give you know good six weeks of having that final version get making the rounds in town so we're targeting a mid November special meeting um I just hate I don't think you should go past Thanksgiving I think I think you should do it in November if at all possible well there is some good news which is the consultant we used help design the project so we're hoping that her guidance is going to have some weight with the stat so we're not doing this in a vacuum there will be comments I'm sure there'll be com you're right hopefully they're not so subst substantial that yeah it's a it's a rerun I don't think they I don't think it will be I think we can Envision that the there are two types of or maybe three types of buckets of input at least as I Envision it one is says the basic model and I think we're pretty uh confident that we follow the state's model that the districts the density and the parameters um and that's the real meat of the of the work and then there's how have we written the rules around implementing those districts and it seems to me that that's where they may have some wording changes or some and then the third area are the design standards um and the site plan review um which again they may have some applicability and some um comments around those that we can tweak but I think the you know if you think of it in those buckets the first is the real compliance the districts and the density and I think we're we believe we're in very good shape on on that and everything else is the pieces around it and also the um the Str and then there's the strategy which is outside of the um of the uh and the information to the public that is outside of that review and I think that is something that we need to start working on right away um and and also there has already been how many public forums a number of public forums whatever density walk website so um so we've started that work and um and more needs to happen to to for sure um yeah me what you just I moov the select board past the draft community the housing overlay District zoning bylaw along to the state for review friendly Amendment as um amended by our Our Town Council second accept that Amendment ready to vote joh Yes and says yes says yes Brian yes yes thank you I thank you to the task force for all it's hard work yeah this has been a task force and to Mark came in just at the nick of Mark right into the B I send it off next week so that would go out by next week then yeah well there's there are some forms that we have to put together so I have meeting with Emily on Thursday AR consultant to put uh the fors together um hopefully she'll will have it ready to send out next week so just Jonathan do you have any guidance on the actual submitt in terms of those forms uh I'm happy to help I I suspect Emily knows uh how to how to submit them i' would also just say for the the board's benefit we've we've developed in our office a good relationship with the two people at hlc reviewing these and then we have a good relationship with the municipal law unit so um if something comes up after we've submitted this and some aboard or someone has a question just let me know and we we have back channels to get those answers pretty quickly that's great thank you good thank you great another Milestone Milestone along the way thank you all thank you the next thing have a better handle on on liaison have a liaison at the moment uh Brian I think is taking that over it's a little gray as to when that is in effect but nothing has happened yeah unless you want it I've never had it and I don't want okay fine okay somebody asked me and I didn't remember okay uh Brian and I swapped I took library and he took W well I know library's got an application it depends what happens with the application I speak mid July I think installation it was was an issue last week climbing the didn't realize that you really needed to play pick the ball that bad again now now 10 or 12 fo CH it's fascinating to me I don't have a plan on getting out either so just brinning and bearing it I drove by midday on Saturday no so it is I think the issues are first thing in the morning and afterward during the day yesterday I drove by uh hav move my car every two hours uh I drove and there was like three courts uh played on yesterday after 2 2:30 so it's it's it is the mornings in the and afternoons about exercise and then now is a newly appointed uh Lea is off to DBA we have two new members congratulations just who today that's me I'm done um I was not able to attend the Board of Health meeting last week so I think Greg might have an update for us in the TA report interest hearing about it um and that's all I have I was at a school committee meeting I my notes um they're they have decided to go ahead with with the science of high on the field they decided on the price but they haven't decided on the r on what the rules how big a sign oh who what kind of business you know do we have marijuana businesses advertising on on Highland field will they all be the same size kind of like they aren't Sweeney because that's a very neat presentation right right well yeah TVD okay zoning task force may or may not be dead I'm hopeing find board taking over that F do we have to do anything because we kind of did we spawn that jointly with the planning board from a procedural standpoint how do we shut down that committee at the time it is when the time is right the time is right yeah I mean I think there's a role for them to play in Outreach right oh yeah I'm just saying is that a kind of a joint few vote is that a joint vote between the planning board and select board to shut that down yeah okay then does anyone have having the task force and the planning board meet jointly every time is an awkward way to to run that business is there a way to separate out from Outreach that's a good discussion with the planning board and the task force in terms of how to a deal with any U fine tuning that is going to take place um is that something that the planning board wants the task force to still assist with not um and if if not then it can move into that Outreach World maybe there's a couple of the planning board members who were on the task force they can be the the bridge that might be a new phase to move into as you say rather than having a joint meeting we talking a lot um a path to that so we need to have a joint meeting of of the two and to discuss and how how the two groups went work together perhaps I should get with Chris and see if we can get this discussion on planning board's next meeting right okay so conversation with Chris and Sarah at a minimum just to work out some of those ideas at least ahead of time Jeff uh nothing to report so um back to parking and placards and stickers um we do have the unique situation of the shark's mouth um so the challenge here is you know you allow owners of of properties who aren not not necessarily residents can get stickers for their cars in this case you have PE owners who never bring their own cars here so they're renting a car and are using that rental car while they're here so you have said that backers are not good on the weekend so that's the issue owners can get resident oh they're not well they own property so so they're titled to a sticker the problem is they don't have a card toix it to okay so we could there's but uh like when I had to use a rental car okay my car was being service s situ I just got there was a special placard that Diane gave that's what I'm suggesting we do here we give them a placard that allows there not something special or new it's just we allow them to have the ones we already use that's kind of what I'm I'm not understanding what's I think we are a weekends we have to get a weekend what's new here is that normally you have a you already have a sicker that does go on a con right and in this case that's not happening because that that car is never in town no I understand I understand I'm just saying so they wouldn't have gotten one in the mail is what you're saying but when I went to you know get my placard I mean I I think Diane has other ways of looking up their residency right I'm just saying it sounded like we were talking about something new a new placard and I think there's one that already exists that can serve this you got a I agree because it was usable I could use it at the beach I could do so you went to the beach on Saturday or on some weekend nobody asked any questions all right then she must have a yeah no she can do that issue I think the answer if you're agreeable is yes problems I'm okay with it I think we just got to make sure that they're not getting a sticker too correct you know what I mean like through through the normal process they not automatically get they would have a car they wouldn't have a registered car then it's only going to registered cars that's what I'm not understanding like any they have a registered car yeah live in Florida yeah but it's probably is it registered in Manchester doesn't have to be you have to as long as you're a property owner you can walk up to the town clerk and get something either a sticker or a placard that allows you to get to singing Beach resident parking all of it right I just don't want both going up that's that's all we we would we would make sure we're not issuing yeah both to the same person and and again the um the property manager would would be helping us Monitor and issu so I just wanted to double check and make sure okay with that so we can I can look that so thank you that's that's all needed there um Retreat next week yes I'll set up for the 25th um there will be a green wedding dinner at the club at the same time cl's big enough that depending on the weather if it's if it's warm and and lovely we get one end of the deck they get the other side of the deck if it's cold and rainy we get the library and they get the big room and what I'm hearing is that this um Retreat will be catered to us yes yes so it is it is officially a public meeting so we typically we don't lot of people but nonetheless it is officially so so if you have um topics you want to make sure you have covered me Oran get those topics in um but generally it's a how do we do this past year and the goals and priorities what did we get accomplished what went well what didn't go so well what what are the priorities for the upcoming year a little bit of brainstorming and hopefully having time to narrow that down to a manageable manageable number so in a sentence or two that's that's what we try to do um welcome your thoughts and how to make that productive item three as U as Kathy mentioned the Board of Health did meet last last Thursday and finalized their public hearing closed the public hearing on the proposed well regulations they did adopt new well regulations they did modify proposals fairly significantly in terms of the testing requirements for existing Wells for irrigation systems existing irrigation systems they they scaled those that back um and are requiring every five years just a basic four elements four or five elements nitrate nitrite not eoli and a couple more so that's not a huge cost to no that isn't those Basics are the they're less than $100 to years now how is that enforced or followed up on let's say I own a well and someone GNA come knocking at my door if I'm in year six and haven't had a um has a well right so so that that is a challenge you know determining who actually has Wells no understand but I'm just saying for the ones we do know do we already have an operational process to follow up and know when they're inspected and Etc so we haven't been doing that we haven't been inspecting you haven't been inspecting them at all no okay good so this is new so it's a brand new operational process that well so for new wells um there is a requirement to do the Baseline testing which is extensive be in a range of $800 or so and Bo felt that that that additional cost compared to the Thousand you're spending on the new well was obiously not insignificant but but could be rolled into the cost with the new well so is the cost of the testing going to cover the cost of this town having this new operational service no that's that hasn't been discussed so this is what we discussed when we talked about fees of other things right and we raised some of the building inspection fees and that kind of stuff we we just at least need to understand um when we're setting fees how much of the true cost are we covering because everything else falls on the taxpayer right so we're not collecting the fees for the Tes that's being that's just between the the property owner and the testing company the lab right but what I'm getting at is there's going to be an operational process to make sure the testing happens who is paying for that at this point it's being absorbed by staff time the that's in theory that's a phone call have you got the test results right there's no site visit or anything like it's just no but followup can get expensive right it can definitely get expensive so I just think it's something to think about every time we have a new regulation right there's correct we're asking staff to absorb but unless they're sitting around twiddling their thumbs it's really not just absorbing they're not doing something else or they're not doing something they could be doing so keep an eye on [Music] many Wells are there what 0 we don't know we don't really know I think it's in that area we think it is most on loading loading places is drinking Wells this is most most of the wells we have are irrigation that's the majority of our WS is there still talk of requiring disinfectants or chlorin chlorination for for new wells for new well just going forward or for for when a well is initially brought online before it is used it needs to be disinfected but down the line right no requirement no maintenance of that unless the testing is showing something well so I mean what's going to happen is you're going to start with the bolus of test nobody's doing anything right now I assume that and so you're going to find out you're going to tell a whole bunch of people all right start doing testing so this isn't like 8 well say it was ad well spread over five years this is 8 well as a shot then nothing for four years and there no right that's that's why I'm poking at the oper John's doing a better job explain it that's why I'm poking at the operational right because you got to have a start up period you may want to phase it phas it in maybe and that'll otherwise the staff won't be able to absorb it not if it's a bis I just don't want to see you know in next year's budget a hiring request to go chase down erant uh will owners right so I have to decide how to implement that maybe just chase a few people each year something I don't know odd it's like the odd and even numbers on the street right so they spread it out so certainly conversation that we have with the Board of Health is that if if we were to impose a fee for irrigation well owners to cover would that be Board of PS or yes yeah the last thing here I just was giving you some background information oning roling government Enterprise fund just so FYI one discussion on that when we revisit in particular har department has a potential Enterprise fund the har is never going to produce enough Revenue to pay for dredging Tri Tri um similar to how the water and sewer are never going to right but generate enough funds for Capital either one of the things that that Kathy and and here set up was to make the launch service a separate entity if we do an Enterprise fund that incorporates all of the harbor stuff then that gets let get mixed up so suddenly we may discover that in fact theing holders are subsidizing the laun well we he you could set it up as its own Rise um B you can have it as a as a sub Enterprise if you will keep them still track at second so that it doesn't get mixed in I mean I think it's been clear that you don't want to have it mixed in right and that you want to make sure we're tracking those expenses and revenue so that we can say at the end of each season did it did it cover its cost or no right yeah I me you don't need to set up a separate F they should have some I got a question about that so coming from a school system I know like Grant wise sometimes when you put stuff in certain categories it makes getting grants easier or can change that if we put that into an Enterprise fund will it change our grant ability for the harbor either way no I don't think it would um if if we said that there that the capital expenses would never be supported by the general fund and it might make it more difficult to get bonds so I wouldn't recommend doing that but um but in terms of the grants no I don't see that as a affecting it either way wors especially if there it's an Enterprise fund and there's no other money so wouldn't the grant be probably specific for uh well my thought was that if you take the launch out of the highway it would look better as you move forward for the har other words you don't have that money coming in going into the H I guess itn't need for money is that what you're saying need for other revenues right yeah yeah well I mean in either case you'd want to explain yeah we have the we have this $100,000 or $50,000 but it really is yeah it's not enough 100% for launch service that type of thing right right I mean it might be worth exploring like you said having to launch Service as an Enterprise fund on its own yeah um there's probably is some sort of a dollar threshold that typically you wouldn't and engage in that type of bureaucracy unless there was you know you're dealing with budgets of a certain size so yeah um that's why probably no hard and fast rules but you probably have a good sense or Andrea you know um but that would be my own question you usually don't want to segregate money you have to unless it's big enough to Warrant that type right now this is what less than 100,000 bucks yeah it's under 50 it's under 50 excuse me yeah so it's small they've already broken one launch let's see how it goes before make restructuring the town's finances y oops boats are full of oops y I'm glad they have two and it was so that's all I motion yes to adjourn second Jeff yes Ryan yesy yes yes yes okay I thought tomorrow we actually got some that's that's too