but then you need addition within every 10 years to so that's why I haveen to start put that off as long they can't get it back in place the February 14th 2024 Maple Shade Zoning Board of adjustment will now come to order please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance indivis andice meeting has been advertised in accordance with the open public meetings act roll call please German Williams present Laura kii present Bill jera present Joan Mortimer present Mariam babich present Lou Valentino present Karen present zi present under new business first item 385 West Park Avenue block 102 Lot 25 Jamie story application ZB a 23-7 Zone residential district R1 existing use residential proposed use residential application variance approval to allow bedroom and porch in front yard area Jamie come on up tell us your story I get it hello everyone I'm Jamie story raise your right hand raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight will be the truth whole truth nothing but truth set be God yes I do okay I did bring my neighbor more cise with me okay well we're going to listen to you first okay and you're going to tell us about what you like to do you're probably going to hold up a picture for us I hope yes and point to it tell us your story all right um well my name is Jamie story and I live at 385 West Park Avenue I have been here um in this home since 1998 um I love my home I love my neighborhood my neighbors are wonderful um what I'm trying to do is file an application for uh Township zoning office for a plan to construct a front porch and a bathroom at the front of my home um my existing house is uh comprised of three bedrooms we have some pictures in our package so my footprint of my home is of the three three bedrooms and I have a small bathroom that is not attached to any of the bedrooms so what I would like to do is to put the bedroom on the front so it is attached to the bedroom um I live in the home with my grandson who is seven um it's my first experience with boys and there's not a lot of privacy so I really really would like to have some privacy as well as I'm aging and I would like to have a safer place to age out with a shower and and that type of a thing so but privacy with a seven-year-old boy who is going to be you know getting older soon as well is a really big deal um so that being said and the reason you're not putting that in the front yard is you told us at the site plan about your back backyard you want to tell us about that my backyard is I have an irregular lot so um the way my my lot is it goes to the point so it's it's a very regular shaped that point is the backyard that would be the backyard so putting it onto the front would be an easier as well as aesthetically pleasing I think it would bring um a nice change with the uh Community it would be updated it would look very nice as well as being very functional uh for me um so if I put the it on the front um it will be symmetrical with with the front of the house still so it's it's just going to be symmetrical um and I believe that it will it would bring more value to the neighborhood and it it would be very aesthetically pleasing now I believe you have a set of front steps coming out of your house yes and your proposed construction is to the right of that is that true if you're facing the house if I'm facing the house the bathroom would be on the right because that would be where the bedroom would be and then you're going to continue across with a porch with an open porch okay and that way when I have deliveries it can be just put on the porch it' be a lot safer for for um sadly medicine and things like that that you do as you age um so for deliveries and that type of thing it would be convenient safer um if you look at the first page where I'm where my house is at 385 I am 30 ft from the street my neighbor is at 235 is 15 ft from the street and if you go up to um 217 West Park they're they're 15 as well so they are a lot closer so even if I come out the 7 feet I still will not be further than any of the ones up my street and um speaking with my neighbor Mark and uh Debbie C is they're fine with me coming out in the front um it won't block their view my house being there with the open porch because how their windows are situated in their home they'll still be able to see out but they can't even see the front of my house so okay you know they were they were okay with that as well um as far as that the um architect had sent a letter saying um about his you know thoughts about my addition and everything could you possibly read that um sure um it says in reference to drawings prepared by the office regarding the above caption subject it is my professional opinion that Maple Shade should Grant you a bulk variance for the following reasons and justifications under the criteria defined as C1 variants the existing house proposed es considerable diffic difficulties in order to construct the addition due to property's Unique configuration and shape it is my opinion that any addition would require a variance regardless of where it was to be located by that a side yard or a rear yard variance under the criteria defined as a C2 variants which gives the board considerable discretion and leeway on granting a variant I ask the board to consider that the result build environment that is created with the proposed design enhances the look of the home and it is in keeping with the scale and fabric of the neighborhood positive criteria and furthermore offsets and or greatly outweighs any detrimental impact which is my opinion is negotiable in any that the addition proposes to the neighbors or the overall intent of Maple Shade zoning or ordinance negative criteria and Fred do you think that that addresses the positive and negative criteria that should be yes sir presented chairman um if you'd like I could go through a couple quick things uh we've already heard testimony the property in the front is 81.1 Ft the back is 16 ft wide so this is a pi shap lot and looking at the plan that was submitted if they were to build out the back as the AR architect identified it in that letter it would be a hardship there also they would be encroaching in the sidey yard and obviously we heard testimony that the way it's proposed now it will attach to the bedroom so more of an ideal situation the fact that she's extending the porch gives it a uniform look you don't have that Jagged look uh so I do think that she meets the criteria the positive and the negative criteria good under our ordinance we have ordinance uh 2000 uh 2000 I'm sorry I'm going for the date uh 2 205 17 C1 and that requires a 30ft setback in this Zone this is the R1 Zone the applicant is proposing a 23t front yard setback this section of our ordinance refers us to another section of the ordinance that allows averaging for 100 feet in both sides so I did my own calculation based on Google Earth and so forth and it comes up with the Neighbors at 15 and comes up the real value that she could have based on this averaging and that is or 205 76a would be 26 ft so she would be permitted to have 26 fet where she's actually asking for 23 feet um there is a hardship I believe I agree uh that's I think that we're listening to tonight is a hardship case and the only thing I would ask is the architectural improvements if you could give something is it going to match the existing building it's going to be enhanced do you have any did you bring anything with that or um I all I have is um what is drawn by by the architect but it's going to stay basically the same same color same color the same yeah the same everything nothing extraordinary or extreme no nothing to the extreme it's no flashing lights or anything like that no no no no no not at all not at all so so with that wouldn't like that he he likes color that is true so with that Mr chairman I believe that all the proofs have been met for a bu just to give it a little more perspective the front steps exist how far out did they come I don't have that measurement I didn't take that measurement typically you know how much further your addition will be than your front steps your existing front steps how I'm not really sure about that exist existing front is a 30 ft and see will be coming towards the street by 7 ft Mr chairman I understand your question you're asking how far they project forward from the house in other words if the uh if the addition is only coming out six or sevenet sevenet 7t and the steps are already out five you're really saying two feet and there's the average that it would allow it to be 26 okay are board members wanting to say anything about this conversation concern okay um you have stumped them well are you are you considering the steps within the 30 ft is that part of it or is it just the house itself the um application is just for the addition right and I was trying to give some perspective that there is already steps that come out from the house now right and she is not going to be much beyond that Beyond them yeah okay but then there'll be steps leading up to the porch then also the same steps okay so I'm going to open up this application to the general public is there anyone in the general public who would like to speak for or against this application yeah on please raise your right hand you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be truth truth I do why don't you sit down and pull the microphone up to you so we can hear you and get your own break your name please uh Mark ctis Mark Mark Mark ctis last name is spelled k o r d s k o r d e s d e s d e f s s s okay thank you Mark your testimony um well I'm very familiar with all this stuff because I'm a land surveyor so everything she was saying about going out back and all that it isn't feasible but I have no problem with going out and our steps are roughly 7 ft out from the front of our house we have a 4ot landing where do you live in in relationship to the left to the left so you're immediately to the left yes okay and then the next three hous we're all built the same we have four houses built exactly the same there and our steps come out 7 ft it's 4ot landing and three steps up at are one foot Treads so if she builds out it's not going to bother me at all for my house and um there's a hedge r that goes down the property line there anyway that's Mark that that's there so I mean my view I'm not looking up the street anyway but that's fine for me I mean anything to improve the neighborhood I'm happy with so your testimony is in favor of the construction okay mark thank you you're welcome okay anyone else in the general public who would like to speak for or against this application saying none I'm going to close the public portion of meeting and come back to the board members and ask them if they have any questions comments concerns kind of plim to now huh um okay then is there a motion I'll make a motion to approve motion Lou Valentino second it by Miss beage did I say that right yeah it is wow getting better okay roll call please um we don't have the zone zeric so Laura you will be the voting member tonight so I go for the roll call Laura Kiri approved will jera approved Joan Mortimer approved Mariam bich approved Lou Valentino approved Karen R approved John G approved your application has been unanimously approved there is a 45 day right of appeal meaning that somebody could challenge what we said so if you do anything within the 45 days you're doing it at your own risk you may take some Solace on a number of people who spoke against you tonight um and there is a six-month period within which must start the construction otherwise you have to come back before us again and you don't want to do that it was such a pleasure I would not mind but I would like to move forward thank you Mark thank you you're welcome thank you thanks somewhere here I have an agenda there he is good night J good luck good night good night good night item number two on new business 301 East Main Street block 55 lot 20 Larry meser meser limited partnership LP application zba 24-1 Zone Downtown business DB existing use vacant shop office and two-bedroom apartment on ground floor two bedroom apartment units on second floor total three residential units and office space propose use residential unit on ground floor with office space application D1 use variants and site plan waiver approval Mr Kings sir you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth whole truth nothing with truth except to go I do and your name sir Lawrence misser just be a quick overview Lawrence how do you spell your last name m as in Michael e s a r i have on the agenda I C yeah okay quickview anybody not this property was built in the 40ies by his parents I think to has a beauty par and to live and maybe rent some of the units out to be honest with you if they tried to build by today stand it would never happen house is beautiful but there's one big issue there's only not a ton of parking around for the amount of residential commercial you would want to use um when I was here at the site plan there was they're asking if you could speak into a mic but canot hear you I'm sorry so there wasn't much why don't you sit down and get closer to the mic okay up close in person I'll move over the building is beautiful it's all Bri built 40s but if you look at it it looks like a house so try to project because folks in the audience it it it looks more like a house than a business to be honest if you look it's a corner of Fellowship in Main Street his parents built it I moved in then and I guess they run a beauty shop is that right Larry yeah they uh they contracted with a builder joh John Jordan who lived here in Maple sh in 1948 and the building was built between 48 and 49 and they opened up business probably I was only three and a half years old so I can't say exactly but probably Autumn of 1949 and it was primarily a mom and pop type situation they were both beauticians in the front the small area and then it was all living quarters you know in the back of your family yeah yeah just my mom and dad myself and the upstairs was the brainstorm of my maternal grandmother who said put two apartments up there my parents had no money so she helped out and that was the you know startup of the uh you know Ralph's beauty shop in 1949 until they closed up business into somewhere in the mid '70s I remember it being oh did okay at present the only unit being occupied as as business right now the shop is not vacant there is a gentleman that runs it's a camera business and all internet sales of cameras and surveillance equipment online so it's not open to the public he just ships from there and sells from there and it's just him he's the only employee am I correct correct now does he occupy the same square footage that the beauty shop was it's that on the drawings if you see the ones you got copies of on the first floor you can see where there is it says shop that's where he is he's on the shop on the first floor that's it so the rest everything else is the top run it all so where his shop is was that the beauty shop too or was the beauty shop larger no the same existing space it approximately comes out to be maybe 1 of the entire square footage of the first floor so it's primarily residential y your testimony is that he has no customers not internet it's all mail order okay now presently for some reason the whole downstairs is own as commercial I don't know why which makes no sense but he's just trying to reduce the commercial to that one Rim okay which are there any employees for the no okay now if you look at the pictures I gave you the parking when I was at the site plan review there was a question about parking I I didn't know all everything but I've been out there and taken pictures there's two you consider the inside the garage two on the apron possibly three are these the pictures yes okay but there's also if you want to refer to a picture just hold it up as you ref I do have all my copies I gave them all to you I'm going to give you a copy okay you can see but there's only three to look at this is show and tell okay you have this is the garage you can see there's easily two in front and if you garage doors of there's four for residents then there's there are white spots we didn't think there any there are white spaces for parking down past by the Masonic Fall and we can give you a history of that because he's responsible for them being white not yellow what tell them the story I'll try to keep it brief uh about five or six years ago you know I investigated parking and I found out that the county controls Main Street in terms of you know where you can park Etc and the signage that they put up if you come down Fellowship Road the Masonic Lodge next to me has a lot behind me and then in front it was blocked out also for years and in investigating it I approached the township manager over the past Mr Andel and uh we researched it and found out that that was actually available to be used and probably should not have been uh yellowed out all the way down to the uh front of the Masonic Lodge so with his help we were able to then change that and acquire four additional spots which was a big help should there be any interest in a commercial type situation I didn't realized at the time that it was all Zone commercial downstairs which we weren't you know made aware of for some reason but the parking you know was a big help but it then went into a situation where there was only a uh gentleman for two years had a small leather craft kind of thing there I appeared before the board here uh about uh four years ago I think and he has since moved on and this other gentleman's there so it doesn't lend itself really to a a large walk-in population and at this particular point in time you know I'm seeking to you know change it to predominantly you know residential or mixed use so that it can be uh more attractive to a perspective buyer so uh indicating that there is more parking how much parking is there for that location well as long as three big SUVs are not there there's four there and there's four on the actual property so there's eight okay now if there's three SUVs at seven and that's four on the property not counting inside the garage no that's four including inside the garage inside okay which would I'm saying they would be the residential will be us is inside available for parking oh yeah most garages are not no that's a big one you look at the garage I me other things are in stor is it empty the garage is no it's not for storage you know I have a snowthrower in there and Lawn Mower and you know some it oh yeah you move stuff out okay so for that reason that's what he's looking for is to cut down the commercial to a smaller amount which in my honest opinion that's my own opinion not because he's my client but building was never bet it didn't look like it was built in the right spot to be really commercial because of the lack of parking from day one you know it's he's talked to to the uh Masonic H one time for parking and at one time he had permission and the tenants did him wrong and didn't park where they were supposed to and then it stopped so he can't even use a masonic H he wanted to use it just as a cut through to park behind the garage he would have taken the down the park behind the garage the Sonic Hall won't let him so he's given up on that okay well let's talk about what we can do okay years ago there was actually parking right on Fellowship Road right adjacent to the building uh not including the driveway but somewhere I was a a teenager or maybe a little bit older at the time that was taken away you know so shade suffers from yellow curve I know that yeah yeah okay so is do you have more testimony not really I mean I I I saw the Mr tur's letter but all this was built like preexisting this is all going back to the 40s so I don't know how I well I I still think you should run through the letter I did the positive negative criteria I went through it okay so could you go through it with us now unfortunately the burden of proof this is a use varience uh residential is not permitted on the first floor in the the BD or DB or DB Zone Downtown business yes downtown bus um so unfortunately it's a used variance which the burden of proof is a lot worse than we just dealt with that Jamie Stew's property which is bulk variances so there is under the law unfortunately the letter that you see from February 8th is the criteria that needs to be met and we need to hear testing on that doesn't have to be as in depth because we know the situation existing pre-existing conditions but we still have to run through and put on the record the positive and negative criteria and then on page four and 20578 if you could just go through those items uh to address the board our ordinance requires that the applicant provide you some more information to meet the intent and the go goals of our master plan our ordinance and so forth so um the eight parking spaces that is what is required for three residential zone three residential units and well it's eight eight units eight parking spaces so doesn't say where doesn't say where no um that really would be the decision I think the board could use that discretion it's it is a lot of yellow curb out there I don't know if it's real yellow curve or somebody just painted yellow curve to keep people off so um that's something we could always check it's on Main Street is probably County doing Main Street is all yellow there's nothing there and a good part of well so the negative and positive criteria take your time but you need to get that on the rec okay I'm not sure quite where to start on this but why don't you start with my own testimony you know is I want you to cover whatever is in the engineering letter but but he's going to cover and I want you to cover it the if the first floor is to stay to to commercial so maybe I could run through this yeah because let let me run through it and I'll ask some questions because the first FL stays commercial right then we got a problem par we understand that that's what I'm saying that's the only reason why it wouldn't make sense to be commercial we're working on the positive and negative criteria okay okay okay so first first item is this is this use compatible with the surrounding area that's the first question is residential compatible in this area to the right of you is that a residential as you look at yeah there's a four 4 unit apartment building right next door and the residential property up to the other end is uh you know mayor whis's place so they're all residential that's residential the there are some strip stores across the street some of which may be empty uh which have possibly uh residents above them okay uh across the street diagonally is theay on your side of the street oh okay how many residential how many commercial units are in your side of the street that block from fellowship over from fellowship okay to Chester Avenue I guess that is on my side of the street that block uh is the Masonic Lodge the school uh how many commercial properties uh none that that I'm aware of except in your shop yes you're so you're the only one yeah does your shop have that shop have a sign who's does that shop have a sign the shop yeah no okay okay so now I'm going to run through 20578 of our ordinance and it just identifies that the the applicant should address the following items to for the board to evaluate I'm just going to run to a f real quick um is this use consistent in the spirit and purpose intent of the zoning schedule considering the pre-existing the way it was built if you look at it does not look like a business what the first floor used for residential and when did that stop again lry the first floor is as I said earlier uh residential I keep that as my residence when I'm in town in here and just that section that was Mom and Dad's beauty shop is rented out so that's important so where did your parents you are currently if you were to come back from wherever you're now Florida wherever you are I reside that's great if you come back here where do you stay I on the first floor yeah so you're saying in the home that my mom and dad built and yeah so you're saying that it is currently being used for residential on a part-time basis M it was it was actually designed and built that way based on the plan back in 1948 and when you're not there it's not used for any other purpose right no I keep it so I can maintain the building lawn fix things Etc okay do you think that the use will not substantially injure or detract uh from the use of the neighboring properties I don't think it would have any bearing at all okay uh the proposed change will serve the best interest of the township absolutely absolutely okay and why would that be yes well you would have someone who would be interested in maintaining the property if they live there as a residents they have two um apartments that would help to sustain okay the cost of the building and so forth upstairs so this apartment complex would be owned of the three two units upstairs and one on the first floor the PCH person purchasing and living on the first floor will be in charge of Maintenance and will own the two apartments upstairs absolutely okay um consideration should be given to propose change upon logical efficient and economical extension of Public Services facilities are there any new utilities there's nothing proposed would there be additional police or fire activity if this became a residential use okay no additional construction you know no additional utility so the interior there would really be very little work other than some modernization probably modernization Carpeting and painting right to the uh new uh owner liking so you already have a bedroom a living room a kitchen all of that exists on the as I drew in the plan it does show a uh that's okay just two two two bedrooms you know a single bath laundry room a kitchen and a large uh living room Mr chairman other than the parking issue I know there are a lot of comments in this letter uh typically when you have a partments what comes with Apartments waste disposal site lighting so can you just tell us a little bit about the site lighting is it safe where the People Park is the driveway lit or are you this more of a residential nature but when you have a number of Apartments you need to look at those circumstances is it safe when the person comes home at night where's the stairwell could you just talk about how the apartments work for us please the uh two apartments upstairs one was vacated in September uh I totally renovated it and uh that's currently you know available the other has a uh a single young lady renting it uh she has one vehicle so when I come there I'm on the driveway when the uh gentleman who's renting the uh space in the shop shows up he Parks if she's at work on the driveway or he parks in one of these spots on Fellowship Road and speak to the lighting on the property okay the the lighting um we are directly across the street from the bank which is lit up there's a uh security light uh on the property of the Masonic Lodge which shines on the back of uh my building also we kind of share does your property have any security lighting security lighting I wouldn't say it does no it has garage lights house lights on the outside the fact that you have Apartments there you have to look out for Public Safety so well there's Lighting in the stairwell there's lighting outside you know for is that motion lighting not motion no is it don't want significant amount of time how's it set up the lighting to come in when they come in well when you approach the uh stairs that go into the apartment there's a light there that you know can be turned on that's not permanently on right no if the if the people want to turn it on they can do of approval that you would provide motion lighting that would be okay if that's required then I would do it Lawrence who who turns on these two lights on the gar on either side of the garage do you turn them on yourself they're actually they're actually controlled from inside the first floor living space and I generally turn them on at night leave them on most of the night and then the people who go in and out of the apartments by the side entrance they have the option of turning the light on or off at the bottom of the steps or so that the outside can be lit or also the lighting in the hallway going up to the two apartments so what we're trying to say to you in that there are tenants in the property and you have to look out for the public safety okay we got to make sure that the lighting is such that they are safe so if there is an approval there could be a condition that you provide sufficient motion lighting so that when somebody is approaching that property they can see their pathway that's certainly doable yeah waste where you're talking about the outside entrance going into the apartment the two upstairs walking on to your property and I want to make sure I don't fall does the light come on right okay and that would include I guess the front of the garage motion sensor lights the garage the entryways to the housing M each of them right if there was a single family home and there was only one family but this is not that situation so right okay next item is waste um you have two apartments or one first floor unit and two second store units Where is the the waste Steward who takes the waste out who is the manager are they all responsible for it or is the person on the first floor responsible as the owner uh the the recycle receptacles are between the back of the house and the garage and the uh receptacles for the trash are behind the garage and who would be responsible for taking that out generally we've had great cooperation whoever you know takes them out out when they're there you know and brings them back in short it's never it's never been an issue if he completes this in he has somebody that wants to buy it that will be living there great all year round I am sure they will take control of that situation so the person on the first floor would they're going to be that'll be the owner that'll be that would be the owner he actually would so how are we going to State this for the resolution then I'm sorry here how are we going to say who's responsible for putting out the trash in that you have a multif family house because if you're approved there's a resolution that resolution is going to address who's responsible for the trash how would you like that well I would I would say that would be the main responsibility of the of the owner landlord okay so that that situation would be a waiver if our ordinance does require an enclosure for an apartment building so that is ordinance section 171 of our ordinance would you consider that an apartment building or would you consider that a house that happens to have an apartment because the owner is going to reside on the first floor and I do believe by the way the shop Once the lease is up the definition I tomato and at Mr kingsberry on that the definition by the way just say you know this the buyer doesn't even want to use that first floor at all for any commercial if he had his way no but I'm just saying he's going to see he wants to live there full time so he's going to be there once we get approval so he'll make that shop part of the residence probably like a larger bedroom or a larger living space probably like a rec room we can't put probably in no I understand no I understand that and right now I'm looking I'm not converting it to sure all residential either so I can't say right now we need to Define whatever right what you're proposing is commercial on the first floor in the square footage that's shown on plan is there a trash can for each residential unit they have their own trash can I'm sorry I didn't hear you well both hearing it just went out on me each how many residents are there going to be in this building how many apartments there are three residences okay do the E two upstairs and the whole first floor is or is there a community trash can is there do each of the apartments have their own trash container and recycling container or is it a common use common use okay one trash can that everybody use there's four there's four trash cans there and two big blue recycled bins okay so there's four and two and it's common use they're not a sign no okay an enforcement would be by the owner then correct yes okay okay it is a waiver not to have a trash enclosure area okay Mr King will handle that when he tells us what we're voting on I'm gonna ask Mr Kingsbury we have a lot of pre-existing non-conforming issues would they be items that would have to have variances no they would not not unless you're exacerbating them right for instance garages are not permitted in the downtown business zone I'll mention them in the resolution but they don't need our answers okay so we're not going to ask him to remove his garage no we're but but again it's not not permitted and there setback issues fenes fenes encroach into the right ofo of Main Street we have a lot of little issues but they're all pre-existing non-conforming issues I saw your letter I got a little sick got a little sick myself okay is that your testimony okay any more questions from FR do you have anything more yes sir okay I'm going to ask the board members if they have any questions some comments some concerns issues I have a question as to whether we're looking at a tri PL that's my question whether we're looking at a Triplex I don't know it's an owner occupied with two bedroom apartments upstairs Mr Kingsbury what would you call that call it i' call it sh yeah with only one the answer yes okay and your point being are we here for the legality of it or are we looking at it as being legal at this point that's my question we're here for the residential on the first floor that's that's what we're looking at today and the sites consistent is the parking situation going to burden the neighborhood burden to and there really are nothing other residents except the apartments going uh further east uh the other way is the uh bank right across the street Church actually reducing the commercial size of what's already been approved the whole first floor was commercial and the top two were always there so they want to make the first for the one room that has a shop that's the only commercial the rest and there's one entrance to all of it so in the case that the applicant didn't move to Florida Sony Florida there would be residential there continuing today is that correct okay so right now he uses it temporarily and they're looking to use it permanently our ordinance doesn't allow it though so once he moves out right you have to look at that section of town and say that the is that the intent and purpose of the ordinance is that really downtown Main Street so that's what the board will consider when they make their vote um and the testimony addresses that any questions comments concerns so you want to keep the shop has just a shop just a shop even though you think the new owner just wants to make it to because if you did away with the shop that's actually one less walking spot right well you can put in what they might do right we have to vote on what you want not what it may be so you don't want the whole thing do a whole different notice provision that's right and do a whole new Hearing in order to make it all resent not because we already committed to this right now the proposal is to REM we have to deal with what's in front of us correct and right now in front of us is a shop and residents downstairs and two bedrooms upstairs two two bedrooms yeah and that's why you need a variance because a residence downstairs in Main Street for a place at Zone commercial is not permitted I always thought it was a house area myself well it was okay so what we're going to do now is open up this application to the general public is there anyone in the general public who would like to speak for or against this application okay gentlemen I'm going to ask I'm going to ask you please to sit back because we're going to invite this young man over here up first back in the general public please I still yep back in the back G to raise your right hand could you I get your name first please Douglas Dyan Michael Douglas Michael Douglas you you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth all truth like with truth self you God I do are you also going to speak John SCH your name is John SCH John SCH sure s c h l d s c h u l d John okay Michael and John please sit down one of you will speak at a time Doug I have to finish swearing John and John your right hand you swear the testimony you give tonight will be the truth whole truth the truth something got yes I okay douas your first all right uh I'm a building trustee for the nipple shade wtown lodge number 281 of free and accepted masons uh we we like to oppose this variance he's he's already said he's bring that microphone a little closer to you sorry sorry he's already said he's he's going to use the front of our building for 24/7 parking there's not they are not parking spaces if I have pictures here what's your building again 15 North Fellowship Road Masonic masic masic question do I need to refuse myself because I'm a Mason as well are you a member of that Lodge not specifically no nice to meet you brother as you can see straping probably should be done again this year uh it is not a parking space it is a shoulder withd striped area and the reason for that is the school elementary schools on the other side of us and they use this whole area for busing a lot of times I'll go there and have maintenance and I'll have to have the bus pull out pull out of the way so I can get back out cuz they they park there waiting to pick up the kids so it's not it's not parking spaces so you're saying that that's not public parking that's owned by the school I'm saying it's well it shouldn't be public park either has stripes in it it's not a shoulder I don't know about you don't you you don't you don't park I mean I see the stripes but I don't know Reas strip is that could have been put there by the school to to make sure that there's lanes for the buses is there paperwork for I mean if that's an ordinance that says that there stripes are there for the bus then that you're true it's what you're saying I went up to the county to try and get information but the big room you used to be able to walk into and find information out they moved so I it's very hard to get information now let me just say one thing on the record so you understand where we're coming from yeah if there is is an ordinance that says that's yellow curve or that's strip parking or that's whatever you want it to be then it exists that way if not it's public parking 24/7 parking you can park at somebody else's business 247 I don't know that they're going to be there 247 residents don't come don't residents don't come for 20 minutes for haircut I'm saying to you is that they it is not restricted by an ordinance it's public do you have a lot your building is there a l you have a parking lot your building yes it holds enough for about a lot of our land was taken when they put the elementary school in we have a small lot but holds enough has enough spaces for our lodge officers and about six visitors so Douglas let me understand you're you're here representing the Mason lwn but that's you're not representing that spot as being their parking you're saying it's the school's parking well we also yes some lot of people will stop here and want to come in that's fori sales okay so so you're taking that away by 247 ask Mr Kingsbury if what I said is true if if there's an ordinance that says that that striping is there for the school buses and that's what it's there for yeah if there's no ordinance but they're happen to be striping there because they think it's a good thing to let the buses know where to park isn't that public par it is unless it's on somebody else's property it is there a reason why they went to the expense of putting in White Stripes what what do that what does that normally denote I don't know but that testimony is not before us I I don't know I just have a question what your concern is because I know for a fact they've had residents there since I moved here 43 years ago uh and nothing's going to change I don't see except the zoning requirements they're already parking there go into the corner lot they before when you had your hob sales have you had it issues with people that live in that house parking in front of your facility if people park there 24/7 yes they don't have it yet where do the tenants where do the tenants park now that are there in the driveway I guess in the driveway yeah I mean I what what do you think is going to change you there you have more residents you're going to have more parking more cars but there aren't going to be more residents there's not there's still you just changing the barber shop into a residence that's at least two cars if it's two people working it's already res it's already resident on the first floor it's already the whole reason for the varant you have three three bedrooms and a and a it's already resident Mr Larry lives there when he's there on the first floor on the first floor yes so he's not going to live there me you're going to run it out mean that's now two more two new two two or four people which four cars we're going to call uh the applicant up again again to clear that matter up but it seems to me that the owner is going to live in the residence that Larry previously lived in unless you're indicating that they're going to have multiple cars we don't know that they only had one I don't understand that and the second thing is I don't understand to 247 24 hour 7 days a week well I know what that means but I don't know anybody who Parks their car there unless you're looking at a used car lot I mean that's 24/7 probably but a resident normally is in a resident would park there all hours of the day if it was a barber shop they pull in for 20 minutes and leave and they don't park there at night because the barber shop would be open at night I don't see any no parking signs there and the curb isn't yellow and there's no signage that says for school buses only right that would Bas be based on an ordinance obviously you would need an ordinance yeah if there was an ordinance that said that that was bus parking right there' probably be a sign there sign No Ex and that that would mean no one can in that's correct including the hog Sal could you check if there's an existing ordinance about that again if you're suggesting that there is an ordinance it would be up to you to bring it before this board it's not the board to bring it before you your testimony has to be with what you know and what you can prove okay so Douglas anything else no that's it we just we're just against the variance cuz uh we uh he's already taken out the back part of his fence which means that if his residents decide to use our lot they're just going to be walk right in the back door but is that a picture of I I can't quite see it the property was fenced in they took the fence out already so presidents could park in our lot and just walk to the house so if the Mason Lodge wanted to make sure that people wouldn't walk there wouldn't they put up their own fence I guess we'd have to do that if want or put up a towing sign you know put up a towing sign that that people will be towed Mr chairman we could ask why the fence came down and if they were to reinstall the fence sir um I went through this property about two months ago I was going to buy it okay there's nobody living in there except for one apartment and at the top of the stairs Road okay now I understand somebody's going to be living there full time the apartments upstairs are probably going to be in and out like all apartment houses well they were apartment houses he's not proposing anything new there so the upstairs apartments that you're referring to remain the same that's not a part of the application before us okay the application before us has to do with the downstairs and the fact that they want to use it as residents in a zone that says it should be commercial okay that's the only thing before us okay because there is a side office eror as you come off of Main Street that they say there's an electronic still there right I don't know there's a camera shot that was the testimony when we call the applicant back we can talk about that okay like I said when I when I saw the realer showed it to me they said it was an electronic store okay and then the house with the apartment downstairs we went through there and they said nobody was rening there that's the own so I'm just clear some things up that I want to just to show you okay to to be a residential area zone that people don't have to live there all the time it's just it no it's just the zoning of it that says if people want to live there they can or if it's own commercial they can have a commercial business there if they want to doesn't mean they have to okay so the Z I'm learning yeah the zoning just says what could be there I understand anything okay anything else joh that's it do we have any questions for them thank you very much for your testimony thank you is there anyone else in the general public who would like to speak for or against this application hi are you're going to raise your right hand you swear or affirm the testimony you give tonight will be the truth whole truth nothing but truth up you got I do your name please Rita Mesi Rita for spell I know how to spell Rita it took me a while to m i l o m i l o oh sh h e s h e v is in Victory V s KY SK y okay got it thank you you want to pull that microphone little closer okay okay I just wanted I just wanted to say that that first floor unit is lovely a little dated but as a realtor I have seen things a lot more dated it's a lovely kitchen with wood cabinets and it's a big cing area then there's a half a wall a half a wall and the eating area on the other side then there's a little formal dining area two bedrooms which are a good size both of them and the one bathroom which amazes me that it has a standing shower and a tub built in in that area uh age you know that it has both it's just amazing big living room um and there's a full basement High ceilings three heaters and and and um hot water heaters and um what else did I want to say it sounds like it it was a residence it was the point I wanted to make that the first floor was a residence and from that residence in the hallway there's a door that leads into the shop so that his parents could go from the house into their shop okay are there any questions of Rita heck I'll buy it Larry Larry has maintained it so well he's I you know I go to the bank um Columbia Bank and I always see his truck there and he's always painting windows or he's out there doing maintenance I always see his truck there um so Beau when he's not living there he's he's there always doing something maintaining he's always ping around like I said the basement is really high ceilings and uh he even had thoughts of putting um uh washers down there for each tenants uh but he never got around to doing that too busy being a uh principal of his school Rita thank you for your test you're welcome okay we're going to call the applicant back we of course we have some questions something about walking into a shop why a fences down I can tell you about the shop because I know you got to talk into that microphone okay closer I can discuss the shop there is a gentleman in there month-to Monon is he month to month he's on a month-to-month basis now and he has an internet business selling cameras that is the extent of electronic shop he does not have visitors speak to us you have to speak to them nobody walks in the building for him he's his only employee the other part of the residence even though somehow I got Zone commercial it's never been commercial either his parents live there or he he uses it when he comes up so is he there all the time no and as you have our testimony and his testimon sworn testimony he made the arrangement with Joe andle to be able to park in those four they opened up those four spots which used to be yellow and Joe Andel found out that they were really not by Statue and he made them he open them back up and had them painted white that's why they're not yellow as to striping I have no idea now what's the testimony you're telling me about the the fence in the back and the school buses uh I don't have the exact date here but I did uh I approached the Masonic lodge because we did have parking access there uh years ago uh unfortunately I think two of my you know tenants over the last 15 20 years you know created you know a little bit of a problem because they were not parking where they were supposed to as per the you know the lodge they were supposed to park all the way down at the end and you know the one guy is no longer there and he kind of ruined that relationship a little bit I approached the lodge uh going to say four maybe five years ago about if I took out a piece of the fence in the back I would then make two parking spots behind the garage and all I was asking was for them to allow us to drive and not Park in their lot anymore but just to drive in the back and to park two cars in the back I had waited no less than three four months I heard nothing nothing from them no response um Larry I want you to talk about why the fence is down well I incorrectly assumed that it wouldn't be an issue because people from the bank were parking in the lot they had a relationship with the LOD about apparently snow removal and I did offer in my um can't think of the L uh Glenn uh Glenn I can't remember yeah the Grand Master you know I spoke with him and he said well it be an insurance issue I I didn't understand the logic because the bank was parking there and I wasn't asking to park there I was just asking for the people to drop you and they did not you know look favorably on you know for whatever reason so I dropped it I dropped it for whatever reason they had it is their it's their property exactly and I did try to approach it you asked to use it they said no that's it so what has that got to do with the fence he took the fence down because I started to take the fence down because I heard nothing anticipated being able to do that correct I anticipated incorrectly okay yeah and then when I did speak I did stop and the lodge then took the uh Liberty of putting a chain across that I didn't object it's my offense but I didn't object to it you know I wanted to have collegial relationship with the uh with the property so then the um the parking became more of an issue so you know that's when I started researching you know the street because the buses for the schools were now all unloading on chest Avenue the next street up except for one bus I think it might be special needs you know students that that goes directly in front of the school and the result of my appeal was the uh Township came and you know took away the yellow markings right up to the fence where the school line uh goes and the Masonic Lodge so it was a help to have a couple extra spaces there and this way I would not uh incur any you know problems with the lodge okay as far as the board is concerned we only can deal with the information before us okay and somebody would present an ordinance that said that there was restricted parking there we would have to consider it if there's no ordinance and there's no presentation of that as far as we're concerned it's public parking it is public okay uh I do you have anything to add for no I would just add that uh when you were speaking just now you obviously there is there was or there is a parking concern so so we had mentioned that garage we all know what happens to garages we all have garages and they are seldom used for parking uh so I don't know if Mr Kingsbury would be okay with us saying that the garage would have to be utilized for parking and not storage when you have Apartments people need places to put their stuff uh and unfortunately in this Zone with garages aren't permitted this may become like a self storage unit be my consider weate want the tenants will not store in that garage other than his snowblower and that but I think do they have outside access to the basement or no no they do not okay are they allowed to use the basement they get to the basement no not at this time I had a plan on making a laundry facility down there but I did not follow through with that so no they don't have access to it other than when they would need to have uh a contractor come for either electrical work or cable work or uh uh anything to do with the apartments in my absence and they could get in so how many I use a lock box many cars can park in the garage two can park in and two on the shoulder two in the apron it's actually in the picture the driveway that's Bob that's what they're proposing two in garage I can you see we have that I didn't know if Mr so that would be a condition if there wasn't approval sure I have no problem with that that's it Mr chairman okay last chance for questions comments concerns issues okay then I'm going to ask if the board has a mind to make a motion this is a use f so it requires five people to agree five out of seven and we do have seven present I'll make a motion to approve motion to approve with the conditions with the conditions with the conditions Karen Rady second Lou Valentina the conditions are Mr Kings conditions are that there'll be motion lighting installed at the outside entrance and the garage if the owner will be responsible for trash collection and that uh and Recycling and recycling yeah okay and uh there will be two on-site parking spaces or four on-site parking spaces available two in the driveway and two in the garage satisfy the engineering comments okay satisfy everybody else okay roll call please laa K I'll approve B J approved join Mortimer approved Mariam babich approved Lou Valentino approved Ken approved John G approved thank you your application has been unanimously approved uh you have a 45-day right of appeal where somebody could challenge what our motion is and then there is six months within which you need to get the work done well that be done right away good luck okay thank you item number three on new business 2910 Route 73 block 172 Lots 1 1.01 1.02 1.04 Deerfield Associates application zba 23-6 Zone plan development PD existing use residential Fox meal apartment complex propos residential application minor minor site plan and variance approval for minimum number of parking spaces same question PCS out ofmine is a resident thank you Mr chairman for the record Chuck Patron for the firm Raymond Coleman heinold I am an attorney of all the state of New Jersey representing the applicant uh Deerfield Associates with respect to the application before the board uh for minor site plan approval and variances related to parking spaces uh the plan before the board this evening is the culmination of four years of uh effort between the applicant Maple shet Township and Burlington County uh with respect to to trash and recycling uh removal and Disposal at Fox Meadow you know Fox Meadow is approximately you know, 1500 apartment units and the trash enclosures proposed will result in uh a more aesthetic enclosure uh more dumpsters for recycling the number of dumpsters for trash will remain the same you will hear testimony that uh they have increased the number of trash pickups at Fox Meadow to three times a week the number of recycling dumpsters will increase they pick them up from three times a week from what went from one to two to now three and was that recent uh they have testimony with respect to that I can make that representation but a representative of the applicant will be here to is here to testify to that with respect to recycling there is an increase of approximately 10 dumpsters within the uh trash enclosures the trash enclosures will hold anywhere from three dumpsters four dumpsters or five dumpsters and will be a combination within each enclosure of trash and recycling containers and these dumpsters are now positioned will be positioned throughout the complex uh and you'll hear testimony with respect to the sighting of those dumpsters um as most of you will you know if you're like my family the amount of cardboard recycling in the last few years has increased substantially thank you Amazon exactly uh I know some days we get three or four packages they're not always envelopes but cardboard boxes which I cut down uh to fit into my can but you know always have the luxury of that so uh the end result is going to be that uh the amount of recycling uh storage will exceed what the county requires for a this complex of this type so that in a nutshell is why we're here uh we worked with the township you know we thought we could do this by just pulling permits for the enclosures the township did not issue us permits and we made the application for the site plan approval to position or locate the 18 replacement in en closures at Fox Meadow the the result of the new trash enclosures is the loss of 17 parking spaces from the existing parking spaces at Fox Meadow uh we will present testimony this evening that the loss of the 17 parking spaces will not have an impact uh to the parking demands at Fox Meadow there's been an onsite field survey uh performed as well as uh uh a review of video uh from the complex at various times to demonstrate that there is more than a lot more than 17 parking spaces uh available at any given time at Fox Meadow including times where you would think occupancy would be uh at its greatest and the parking demands would be at its greatest so um the board may not be aware that uh the cam the video that I'm referring to is uh the applicant has uh at the request of the Maple Shade Police Department installed uh license plate readers as well as 360 Dee cameras and those license plate readers and uh video cameras are linked directly to the police department uh the police department is also requesting an additional 10 10360 degree cameras out there uh when we're you know working with the police department with respect to that so uh with me this evening I have uh the applicants before you continue and I wanted to give you the courtesy of making your presentation I was out of the office today but when I came in I had a flurry of emails that said that there was some engineering concern so I could allow you to present for the next hour or so and then call on the engineer I would rather you hear those concerns first if you have a way of addressing them fine if not then we'll have to decide what to do okay okay great thank you Mr chairman uh first thing I guess I want to identify is that you realize you under our code under Section 1788a you're required to have a site plan is that correct well there's and the site plan was submitted right and okay as part of a site plan uh our code also reads that sufficient information must be contained within the application for the board to Grant such approval so now I want to give if you'll entertain me for a few minutes a little bit of a chronology so the plans that we have and that the only plans that I have on record were last revised it was in August of 23 uh based on those plans the prior engineer in November 10th letter his November 10th letter had deemed this application complete then moving on to December 14th the prior engineer had written a review letter which identifies a couple of items uh actually I'll say three two two two pages of items so in January of 24 Fred Turk is now here so I looked at all the information and I said to myself okay there are open issues primarily all open issues in the engineers letter of December 14th so I prepare a draft act after speaking with prep uh dated January 10th never sent down my history shows that I don't want to come to a board and I don't want to present have someone present to a board something that hasn't been close to perfected so I I had written a draft and I said wait a minute I've known Greg for the the engineer for a long time I reach out and I say hey what are we doing we have these open issues uh at the end of the day they said hey let's meet great that's the best way to go about it we meet we resolve the open issues we revise site plans we come to the board we need a waiver for this we need a variance for this there's no AR I they want to request a waiver and a variance that's fantastic that's between yourselves and the applicant so on January 31st we finally scheduled a meeting we met in the clubhouse very nice Clubhouse I met with several Representatives uh two of them are you I don't believe two of them are here this evening as well as the applicants and their engineer and I think there were one or two other people and we went through the general items before I get to those and and there was consensus from my opinion that uh we spoke about open issues good idea let's get the plans resolved before we come in it's just the proper way to go about to not wait your time waste everyone's time so with that we left the meeting I walked the site with the applican engineer we discussed some of the open issues uh it was my understanding that we are waiting for a revised plan so I take my January 10th draft letter and I stick it back in the folder um it was part of the chronology was around 3:00 today or 2 o'clock today that we found out that the applicant was uh not aware that they were not on the agenda uh the agenda was modified around 4 o'clock to include the applicant on the agenda so I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage but I'll go through everything with you because this kind of came up last minute so the open issues that I want to go through with you are related to site plans when they come in with a site plan you don't get to pick that you only want to do this little piece like you don't want to adjust the lighting you don't want to adust the waste disposal so having been in town my whole life and my friends lived in Spring Hill uh Country Club right that's what um I knew what this place looked like Back 40 years ago so I was kind of shocked when I drove through there and saw a stark more or less Urban environment with no trees Carter of uh aart departments and I really was kind of a taken back and then we met I talked about it uh the applicant had advis us that they are they realize that and they're starting to do some Foundation plantings they talk about three phases of their project so in our conversations with the engineer and the attorney I said great show us a plan show me where these three phases are and let's bring the site back to where it should be because every site plan whether it's a w Wawa if they cut down a tree it's they're in violation of their site plan approval so I said let's bring it back it's an overwhelming over overwhelming task because this has and I'm going to put on record from my experience this has not been landscaped everything has come down except a couple trees that probably should come down they're dangerous they're tripping Hazard so forth so we spoke about it and it was like yes we can do this in phasing and recognizing cost which you can't recognize but I I recognized to do the whole project at once I said hey let's put this into planting Seasons first planting season I'll do phase one second planting season do phase two it may take 18 months to do the plantings but we start coming back to where it's a environment where a child should be and again we're talking about the public and these are people's homes um they should see the trees they should see the flowers they should see the leaves so with that we went through all the items so I'm going to first start if you'll again entertain me for a few more minutes with the CME letter of December 14th so obviously identifies the parking parking is the first thing and the reason that we've heard some testimony already they're losing 17 parking spaces so under the rsis the standard for parking is two spaces is per apartment I'm assuming they're all two-bedroom uh there are 1492 apartments that would require 2984 let's just say 3,000 parking spaces they have 2, 383 parking spaces so they're approximately 600 spaces under parked currently based on that standard and they're now taking 17 away so that again CME letter second item that they've identified is the 80 Park 88 parking spaces Federal Regulations federal guidelines can't get around it they can't avoid it and we can't say they don't have to do it uh I went out there I saw some little crooked signs and I'm not sure that they comply I'm going to say they do not comply at least in certain areas that I've seen I didn't walk the entire complex but it's something that should be shown on the plans Ada parking spaces have to conform to were certains requirements the ramps as everybody knows the sign height penalty plates I didn't see any of that when I was out there I didn't walk the whole site but that's something that should be shown on the plan it's not a Maple Shade ordinance it's not a state ordinance it's a federal requirement uh for for accessibility uh the second thing we had asked about or actually I'm going to go through cme's letter then I'll get to mine CME said they wanted to see circulation of the trash trucks that was item C in their letter there was one thing that I've also said we need to see that because we're moving the trash en closures now we want to make sure that a trash truck with the width of a driveway 25 ft whatever it may be we want to see that Dimension and make the turn to properly attach the dumpster and leave not leave and leave it over here not leave and leave it over here and put it right back to where it was because they become convenient and they just pull in and they just leave it where they are sticking into the driveway unacceptable so so that was their their item C item D was uh the need for any improvements along either roadway site Frontage should be reviewed by the board so we all know that there was landscaping and so forth along Route 73 we didn't see the dumpsters we didn't see the elevated headlight lights that stick out and shine into Route 73 now or onto our driveways and I may be going back 20 25 years I'm not sure but the CME letter is saying roadway front we should the board should discuss that uh he goes on to say that um our office def first comment regarding improvements with the route 73 with DOT he's always going to reference the dot for anything onse 73 but obviously there's issues that the board has to take into consideration with a site plan um item e was the applicant should discuss the condition of the existing improvements storm water Landscaping there's not much to discuss there because it really is very little if anything's there uh what remains from my observation is those cute Christmas trees that they put in when they put a new development in are now 45 50 years old and it's just Roots all over and they actually should be removed because they appear to pose a tripping Hazard everywhere on the site um with that then they go through some additional items regarding storm water improvements then they go to the end of their letter which is miscellaneous curb details when you're building a trash enclosure you need additional details curb details they asked the where the three plan view details are going to be located because there is there are three separate units they're proposing three four five number of dumpsters inside of an enclosure these enclosures are three-sided so they are still open to the front so when you're in the community you will look into the dumpsters there are no Gates and from my perspective that's probably a a good thing because we all know what's happens to the gates first they break they sag and they disappear because truck drivers don't they don't get out to open and Clos Gates uh the next one is item three under miscellaneous in sami's letter and that is the Turning templates for trash trucks which they spoke about above um so the last few items that they've identified was obviously the Fire official and the board's environmental consultant um so I don't know where where those things stand but as of right now I'm unaware of any of these items being addressed on the August 2023 letter for a site plan I have not received it I don't know if the township has but I have not so November December now we're going to get to Fred twerk being involved so uh my concern was and continues to be you know site safety and I always talk about that with the board um just let me find my draft again sorry about that so I'd written the draft and I've identified a few things I know that we're in first site plan I drove through the site in General on my way home and I I mentioned the Landscaping part of our checklist now obviously CME did deem them complete but obviously you can deem something complete to bring it in It's Not Unusual for an engineer to say We'll provide that to you before the meeting we'll get that to you in 10 days so the first item in in a draft letter that is dated January 10th it hasn't been circulated to anyone but I just want to go through this item a landscape plan is required to be submitted in accordance with the ordinance 17822 1 B5 so the applicant uh has requested a waiver based on the findings of the recent inspections of the site we strongly recommend that a landscape plan be provided from the site visit is evident that the project is not in compliance with the original site plan approval we don't know where that is from the 70s or uh with the majority of the site Baron of land ape the landscape plan should be submitted to identify replacement of the original landscape requirements in addition a schedule should be provide providing be provided identifying the installed in the coming spring planting season and that's where I talked about if if a if an applicant can't do it all at once I would understand that because everyone has budgets but give us a phasing plan second item was the plan identifies solid wasting uh enclosure details it's the perver white vinyl fence kid throws a snowball it breaks the wind blows it breaks so I want to ask and I've asked that the detail be provided that we have a commercial Quality Fence that is not going to become an isore again on Route 73 or even for the residents again these are their homes uh so we have asked for that detail the mill the thickness of the plastic like the color I don't know I kind of think the whites are a little little offensive they're they're iny face Earth Tones I've asked for that type of thing the next item I've asked for is the same that CME provided in their letter and that was the circulation plan uh we went so far as after we met uh uh our manager was coordinating with the county I got involved we talked to the County Recycling they ended up sending us a copy of their turning template for their equipment because the county is very particular when you when you sit in my chair the county is very particular about how circulation works for their drivers and safety I forwarded that information to the applicants engineer so that everyone had it when I was in anticipation of getting a plan that would show the circulation uh item four of this draft letter again was just asking are you going to increase the impervious cover I don't think that is the case uh parking concerns obviously I went back to the very pack of the site and it was is called Madison Drive and in Madison Drive there are 15 cars parked along in the street in the driveway all the time because there's limited parking in that area so we heard some brief testimony and they were saying that there's more than sufficient parking on the site it's a site with 1,500 apartment so some areas don't have it some areas do and we had asked that that's study be done and provided to us so we could sit here and say Mr chairman Madame Zoning Board member this is what we have and it's it's it's okay uh we haven't got that information but I it appears they're going to provide some testimony tonight um that was also then Minor Details footing designs things that you nobody really wants to hear about here um so with that said we were waiting for a revised plan so tonight I had to run through my file pull it out and be ready within an hour to go through uh what was going to be testified to now they could testify through all this tonight but I always ask a board that they consider um waiting until the plan's approved and the reason I'm going to say that is something that happened in this room in January the man came up and said the two residents resident and his brother uh who is a professional planner and he said that they're not complying with anything they didn't make the revisions on the plans when you prove things subject to me I'll say you can trust me wink right but everyone has a different opinion of what your thought is for landscaping what your thought is for the the trash enclosure and I know they came tonight we just we just want to fix the trash enclosures four years I get it everyone wants it fix I've been looking at it for 25 years the trash enclosures but there are other details like the old trash areas the plans don't say well we're going to take that old concrete slab out we're going to take that piece of fence that's left and we're going to fix the curb and we're going to plant a tree we're going to put top soil back in the plans don't say that what you see on the plan is just the locations and little loins I don't think that's enough detail for me to advise you on their compliance with the site plan so stuck in hearing all this um one second please Mr chairman just write in my notes go ahead go ahead I don't because what I'll wind up doing is putting what you just said in between what Fred finish and then I'll tell you what happened at the end of our last zoning board meeting okay thank you okay uh the story that Fred was bringing up was a discussion point at the end of our last soning board meeting where a industrial outfit had come in did an excellent presentation promised us everything and then six months later we have the residents that back up against that sitting here saying it's not done and what we did is we approved it subject to engineering because we want to be business friendly we want to move people along and they were so professional in their presentation we thought but they're going to do it they didn't do it and now they're bling out but whether they should do it and now this it's a big herang now so at the end of the meeting we discuss okay going forward what we're going to do is we're going to say we need a plan and the whole board discussed this almost like a work session that said if the plan is not here we don't have enough to make an approval so I know Fred went through a long Spiel we probably had a 45 minute meeting on that and every board member had a meeting of the mind that said if we don't have a plan then from our view it's not complete so you can present tonight but if you want us to do something subject to engineering I don't think you're going to get the votes if I can have a few minutes to discuss with the sure client thank you come on you wer invited sorry oh that's okay no I didn't know what the noise was right and we should not discuss this until they're back bag of chips that would have been better you know what you're cracking me up mind he's not here he's not here that's right I said you're fantastic no not you're doing a great job excellent I think they're also right that's exactly what came up last meeting if they don't have the site plan they're not ready to present yes we're not supposed to discuss until back got to give them whatever we're saying they should hear which not saying how wonderful Fred is yes oh you can do yes that's what're especially on Valentine's Day well we're saying that we have a lot to learn from Fred he's very very good you are the best engineer we've ever had here you give us guidance you have information I mean you're just great that's cuz I grew up here he's blushing you're I know his parents they raised him right shut up but there is a lot we can go through when the meetings are over like maybe a little work session well it is Valentine's Day so I don't know what plans are but but I typically don't make a lot of friends clearly but that's okay yeah I think we we we needed someone like that yes you're the truth hurts that's a problem yes you're just saying what we're all thinking yeah I guess we can't talk now yeah no can't talk that what you're thinking oh and we're L too yep okay I'm very excited jacket much we can discuss I wasn't here last night I missed that closing conversation petitions being circulated with regard that I think I didn't think' council's plate is full excuse me I didn't think you'd be here today why where would I be I got my 24 roses get out of here really do you think I got do that I goty to do that to Fred for a few minutes on what he's looking for with respect to certain the issues he I would like to do that in a public meeting okay that's fine I didn't know if you wanted wanted to do it that way no public meeting that's fine I my let me see if I can on got red eyes my God they're great oh my God abous this one okay Chuck how would you like to Pro allused himself so I thought I thought I saw another board member no oh Mr chairman thank you for the opportunity to discuss privately with my client we did have a couple questions we would like to uh ask of Mr TK with respect to some of the issues he raised this evening with respect to what he's looking for uh so we can make uh the determination as to uh moving forward tonight or deling to another meeting okay so uh so your questions are y Greg get that this Greg Fusco he's the applicants engineer uh Mr TK alluded to him earlier at this point do you need any of my qualifications so no okay thank you I've been Greg for many years than thank you um if if if I may the the way I understood that this started out this whole I'm going to put you under Ro you raise your right hand thank you you swear our affirmative testimony you give will be the truth or truth of the truth go yeah yes I do thank you okay um when I was name my name is Gregory B Fusco effis and Frank usco key Engineers ad South White Horse Pike Berlin New Jersey um when when I was asked by the camson corporation to come on board and and assist with the trash enclosure situation um the trash enclosure situation the way I understood it was serious uh solid waste and trash The Collection the disposal the storage is uh a a a general health wealth and life safety issue in the state of New Jersey not only that in the country so it's it's imperative in my professional opinion and in terms of common sense that those trash enclosures uh be taken care of as soon as as possible if you try through the neighborhood as um uh Fred has mentioned um a lot of those trash enclosers are in deplorable condition um they don't meet the requirements of the haulers the recycling hauler which happens to be the county and the township huler okay who comes in and collects Solid Waste several times throughout the week um I know that for a fact because we all at camson including myself work closely with those aen gencies to achieve the detail that's on the plan for the trash enclosers with that with that in mind it is imperative that they be done um through site plan review and it is typical there are a number of other things that get attached to site plan approvals um I always say it after 40 years of being in business you re being held in a hostage okay regardless of the application you go in for part A well you know what you need Part B part C Part D part e Part F okay um in many cases that's true there are a lot of cases where it may not be true Mr toric has asked for um some specifics which uh on a property that Fox Meadow has uh for instance there are almost 1500 units it's enormous there are over 2300 parking spaces a lot of impervious it's Monumental okay it's it's easy to turn around and say we want all the barrier free addressed but again when you're dealing with 1500 units and over 2,300 parking spaces that's Monumental that's something that doesn't get done in a in a month's time in terms of making a presentation okay to the board and satisfying engineering requirements uh like likewise with the um Landscaping when I spoke with m Mr torque he indicated you know hey hey this is a lot maybe we phase it that might be the right thing that's a good thing to suggested abort again it's a good thing to suggest it a board because it's Monumental so I don't want to keep repeating myself because I'm going to say it over and over again with some of the other aspects but Fox meow came before you for health safety and Welfare issue trash and and they need to resolve it we'd like to resolve it we'd like to prepare a plan as efficiently and as quickly as possible and I I want to reach out to you Fred because uh for instance the first question my client says is okay Greg get this all done for next month right well it's not really next month it's half of a month because I have to give you time to review everything and to turn around and do a uh detailed topography and design for the number number of barrier-free parking spaces the number of access ramps throughout this development it's Monumental okay in proportion to having the trash enclosures constructed or at least starting to get them constructed because of the Life safy Health and Welfare issue um I'm using that as an example so a as we continue on I was just interrupt the Ada ramps are also Life Safety right absolutely absolutely absolutely but as as we begin to ask questions this evening I'm hoping that it's possible we can generalize with some of the things that have to be provided in terms of details and work that has to be done to so that we can expedite the approval we can expedite the work that has to be done right and similar to the Landscaping you identified three zones all the improvements could be done that way if the board sees fit but again Monumental no I think these are things that are life safety and I think they should be addressed I mean I didn't I think starting with this complex you have to start with certain things when if you come in again I think probably then we look at lighting and and those types of things that we're not looking at now but I guess I have a comment too uh you you said that the applicant when you come in with a large site plan they're held hostage the township many times feels like they're an orphan because we don't get the things that you in your presentation say you're going to do that's why they had a discussion this was not Fred this was the board member saying what can we do after we heard the testimony of neighbors that said everything that we thought we put in place for their safety doesn't exist say what can we do so what they said is that we need a plan not the plan that you're going to do the plan you did so what can be done I don't know what can be done but we're going taking the direction that they gave me during that work session after the last meeting I'm going to look to Fred to say what can you guys do that satisfy that what what kind of things can we do to make you do what you say you want to do is there a time limit by which you have to do it and if you don't do it by that time limit there's some sanction for that Mr Kingsbury will have to tell me whether that's legal or not um but we're looking for you to produce as much of the plan that our engineer advises needs to be done for example uh do you are you looking for Ada details for every Ada spot or is it possible to give you like a detail a typical for so a typical Ada spot will be this identify where the but they should be on a plan and and not at that scale obviously a plan that shows where they are where the Ada spots are located on the site and and I know you say it's uh I don't know what the words were Ed but Monumental it's a federal requirement I mean you can't not provide Ada accessibility no we're not saying we're we're not saying we're not we're not providing you've asked for the level of detail to be shown but if you know that's difficult to get done in a short time frame to go out and and do a to topographic survey over each location prepare the grading plan that has to be put on the plan and there would be numerous grading I think we would show the locations and show a typical detail a typical detail showing typical detail for one Ada spot with the grading and whatnot show a couple different examples you may have three situations I don't know how many Adas but you know just for example it's a lot easier to give you two or three rather than giving you 100 right there may be five various situations show those five typical standards on a corner in the middle of the lot what whatever you have right so is there taking away what Fred has Chuck I'm sorry if you wanted to speak it's okay goad I interrupted you that's all I I was asking my uh my client if there were any other issues other than the the Ada well what I'm saying is that I'm just doing the the overview thing here if what you heard from Frey says you can go back and do a template to say here's one or two or three different Ada spots but you don't have to do every one of them and the same thing true with everything else he said Landscaping three areas show what they are you'll do one and you have a timetable for two and three a reasonable one and you need get two more months to do it I don't think the Bo's going to say no but we need to see that you're making progress towards it the other comment I would make this may be Monumental but for letting it go to the condition it's in has made it Monumental too it it has drifted over time and now we're looking to you to work with you to get it back and not impose where you got to go back and do plans for six months but how can you give us the uh the cliffnotes part of the plans with the promise of what else is needed to the extent that our engineer can say yeah I'm comfortable with that and my testimony I you misunderstood my testimony was in terms of preparing the plan and getting it done in a timely fashion for instance 30 days to get it back to you the actual work itself is another story okay but but I need to make sure that I can get the information back to you and if it takes three months it's another plus the hearing okay plus the time frame after the hearing that the applicant has to comply with all the requirements it's another three or four months that the applicant's not we to do that what we want to do is say understanding what Fred you said is there some way you can come up in a month or two right and get it to where on engineering terms you're comfortable it's being done and that's what I was shooting for and what I was trying to say so I I apologize if I Mis everybody has to use terms to express their point I'm not offended by them at all uh Mr chairman thank you uh yes we will we absolutely will you know submit the revised plans and work with Fred's office I'd like you know the board to C carry this to the March meeting and uh with the understanding that if uh we don't submit the plans in time for Fred to do a a review and get issue a review letter to the board that will be carried uh you know to another month and that uh we would Ren notice at that point in time but no notice if we can get everything in time for work with you there you go sharck you got to give me a letter ex extending the that yes yes one month y That's all ask I don't want toate uh okay so we need a motion to extend this application or carry this application to the March meeting anybody have a date um is it March 13th we all should have a DAT tonight let's see I think it's March 13th because of the leap year yeah March 13th March 13th is a motion to carry the application without further notice notices to the March 13th meeting I make the motion Bill makes the motion is there a second I'll second it Miriam Laur laa Laura yes okay Laura makes a second motion uh roll call please La approved B J approved join marimar approve Mariam babich approve Z zardi oh sorry Lou Valentino approved Ken R approved and John approved thank you uh I think your trash enclosures look good so we want to work with you on this but we also want to not run into what we ran into before with that prior application so that's why the board is taking this action understood okay okay Robert we have some resolutions pull out we have two resolutions one is for strong bond Health this was heard of January 10 uh it's a commercial space in a shopping center and he wanted to it was previously a floor design business and the applicant applied uh for a use variance and site plan waiver to conduct a physical therapy and physical training business in the Strip Center uh no changes to the outside he explained what uh that he had a certain number of patients limited to 15 patients um the space is currently vacant there was an engineer report um and uh he recommended new penalty plate for handicap Park parking spots uh the Ada ramp needs Rehabilitation and uh Evergreen screening was recommended the board heard testimony from the public from two people who were in support of the application and the application was approved for use variance and a site plan waiver for physical therapy and physical training business at the site uh the approval was conditioned upon uh the standard terms and conditions regarding escrow uh publishing a notice and regarding um notifying the landlord of the engineer's recommendations regarding the improvements to the site eligible voters Brady Valentino Mortimer zarik zurga Karachi and G is there a motion make a motion motion Mrs R second seconded by Lou Valentino Laur k j approved Jo Mortimer approved Lou Valentino approved Karen r approved John G approved okay one other resolution this was for uh babita Rainey this is the eyebrow business uh existing retail space at 300 South Lova road which is the Kingsway shopping closet she wanted to conduct uh the sale of eyebrow and beauty related products and personal services for shaping plucking and tinting eyebrows she has experience in this business at the mown mall wants to open her own shop the applications was reviewed by the zoning board engineer by letter dated January 10 and uh he felt that the site was suited for this purpose since it's in an existing shopping center and it was compatible with the other business she testified that her hours of operation would be Monday through Saturday from 10: to 8:00 p.m. and Sunday 11: to 8:00 p.m. uh there was no public comment on the application and she was approved for this business uh with the standard terms and conditions the eligible voters are rayy Valentina Mortimer zadik zarga Karachi and G is there a motion I'll make a motion motion Mora seconded by I'll second it z z roll call please Laura Kiri okay Bill JGA approved Jo Mortimer approved Lou Valentino approved Ken R approved John G approved the next item on the agenda has to do with discussions I think it's a little too late for discussions 2023 zoning board annual report review can we we can put that on to next uh thank you this report is provided for only your review it is not a discussions if you have any comments you can provide in the next meeting or otherwise we will adopt [Music] the report in the next meeting next meeting sounds good okay minutes do I have a motion to approve the minutes make a motion to approve oh Germaine makes his motion he is's in the headlines seconded by Mr ghee all in favor signified by saying I hi those oppose C your we wouldn't want his one motion to defeated okay it's a little too late on Valentine's Day for once around but I want to thank everybody for being here on Valentine's Day so what we need now is a motion to adjourn motion Mr G seconded by everybody all in favor signify by saying I those oppose everybody thank you thank you perfect are we off off camera now