##VIDEO ID:iwrsfhl7IOo## thr a flag salute flages okay call roll call uh Tom Collins here basano Richard Patterson here John pittz here Jim galantino Margaret guberti here Steven ji here Michael ruffu Andrew Campbell Michael Richmond here uh this meeting is being held in accordance with New Jersey statute requirements of the open public meetings act Sunshine Law notice of this meeting has been advertised in the press and posted on the Bolton board the municipal building uh all applicants are hereby advised that if you receive board approval tonight you must come forward and sign a form outlining the procedures for obtaining building permits and meril licenses at the conclusion of your case tonight please approach the board administrator to sign the provided information sheet and um do the uh approval of minutes all in favor post okay carries all right um okay our first case is Ethan Zang a201 Lagoon Drive block 1200 lot 42 located in the S60 zoning District seeking a sea variance relief for circular drive two curb cuts and potentially others for a new single family home current on taxes Water and Sewer payments proof of advertising and notifications provided represented by Christopher Bal thank you thank you Mr chair members of the board my name is Chris B and I represent Ethan and Rachel Zang U with respect to their property 8201 Lagoon Drive it's a house there currently under construction for them they will be moving here year round um Ethan is a dentist be working in Dr mendon's office and bring bringing their family here and be Lagoon Drive currently um 821 lagon Drive is I block 1,200 42 it's in the S60 Zone with 6,000 foot lot the property sits right at the termination of Huntington Avenue where the stop sign is at Lagoon Drive um as many of us know Lagoon Drive that stops I was put there several years ago because lagon Drive is a through Street the only through Street to gram Avenue for large part of Northeast Margate all of bide Court seide Court West B Drive barlay Avenue back in that way the had Claremont Avenue because the only the only Street next to that that comes out onto jome Avenue is up by the basketball courts which is Fon Avenue um Marshall Avenue is one way the other way my point being that that that Lagoon Drive in that location sees a lot of traffic coming through um out of Margate on Drome Avenue to go to the bridge a stop sign was put there years ago because for that reason um fortunately or unfortunately the zags purchased that property which is right at the at the termination of Huntington Avenue um the request for for the double curve cut to have a circular Drive is to allow the zangs and their guests their kids whatever so they don't have to back out onto into that intersection routinely and can avoid doing that in the summertime when it's busy when it's uh like I said when it's busy it seems to be logically a safer scenario uh than having a single driveway and having to back out onto in that intersection regularly I know this board has always had a issue so to speak unavoidable uh with multiple stack car driveways because of the backing out issue onto a through Street that's kind of exactly the situation we have here and this gives us an opportunity to avoid that it gives us opportunity to avoid that in a location where a circular Drive is prevalent I think I've asked for one other in my career here and and that was granted because we were able to show that it is really a prevalent design standard in the base Ro Drive Lagoon Drive area there are over between 30 and 40 houses that have that configuration this kind of makes that area unique so aside from the safety factors which we think we can demonstrate for those houses that can accommodate it without sacrificing substantial amount of on street parking which we don't we still maintain a space on site uh between the KB cuts um being similar a house right next to us on the right house right next to us on the left has the same double curb cut configuration same circular drive so it would actually be three in a row fitting in with the neighborhood pattern um instead of me telling you everything let Tom D um project planner and engineer speak Peter Weiss is the architect he's here Dr Z is here can speak anybody has any questions excuse me Chris um get Roger sworn sorry about that that's all right you swear affirm the testimony you'll give this evening it will be the truth I do I I didn't write a report for this application because it's it's a basic application simple I just want to point out there's two actually three variances one is two curve cuts and the other one is the the width of each curve cut uh it's supposed to be 10 feet and there's two 12s proposed so I think we can probably bring bring it to T if the board thinks that's a better idea that's I didn't realize that that's that's something that can be done so we going to make him to fo you can yeah you can make that Amendment sure okay sure great that I mean that that gives us 20 ft of curve cut versus um 18 versus 18 which you'd be allowed to have anyway right it says 11 18 but minimum wi of the one is you're asking for two Cur I I understand but in total you're looking at asking for additional two so that over what's permitted so single single that's it construction okay and uh Mr Dace just give us your name and business address for the record I'll get you sworn in all right my name is Thomas Thomas da work for Arthur ponia Company 400 North over Avenue Atlantic City New Jersey and please raise your right hand you swear airm The Testament you'll give this evening it be the truth I do thank you Tom you're a LIC special planner and engineer I am yes with property Z purchased I am being that's correct waiting of your experience with the application what youer site what you believe theit all right a lot of what I'm about to say you just heard between the conversation Rogers had about the variances identifying the variances we were requesting we've eliminated the one that was the beginning of my presentation what we're here for is a circular driveway it's the two curve cuts that are the issue uh we don't need variances for setbacks for anything we meet all the setbacks for the driveways we don't need any variances for coverage we me all the coverages uh so the only thing is a two curve cuts and now it's two 10 foot curb Cuts uh as Chris curcular any correct so so what what it does is it improves circulation on site which then kind of advances the purpose of Zone of the free flow of traffic what we were trying to avoid here is with one 18t curb cut like we' originally proposed cars would have to back out into Lagoon Drive now if there's cars parked on both sides of Lagoon which there would still be an opportunity for cars to be parked here obviously backing out is a maneuver that's more complicated and more challenging than just pulling straight out your visibility is better if you pull straight out uh so for that reason that that's the reason we looked at making these changes and going with the two c pets what what site condition out there that makes that even more complicated or more risky so to speak at this location so directly across from the lot right next to us is an intersection and it's not just a straight intersection T intersection there's also an angled Street coming in uh Bas side cord I believe it is and so it it does create some interesting Maneuvers coming out of that intersection and again it just we believe that being able to pull straight out you're looking at the traffic coming from both directions we just believe it's a safer uh Al alternative and I think a preponderance of the neighborhood and if you look at the neighborhood they seem to look great because Chris said there are 12 uh the 13 along Lagoon Drive that have two curve cuts and then if you look at vure drive two ends of V Drive uh down a little bit that's a total of 16 more so that right there is 29 and that's just right in this vicinity I didn't look all the way down B Sure uh but there are many uh properties with two design in the area yes very consistent with the way that that neighborhood has been developed and why effective part why do work back there not and not present a problem parking that because of the I guess the nature of that that area and whe it's year round homeowners or seasonal home yeah I mean so we're not close to a commercial District so nobody's parking here to you know go to any commercial establishments uh we're not close to the beach nobody's parking to go to the beach so most of the people that are parking on this street are going to the homes on Lagoon Drive um you know so that way you they understand the way functions that for the um did you take an opportunity to look generally in the area at the availability of off street parking on some of the larger light houses most larg light houses yeah I mean when there when there's two curve Cuts obviously that does cut into the on street parking uh here we have now that we have 10 ft uh 10t curb Cuts we'll have 38 ft of parking um you I did some research today and with the exception of full-size pickup trucks two cars are going to fit there parking on an 18 foot space would be a legal space yeah yeah I mean we have more than 218s correct understanding that's not the same standard on the street right there is no there is no real standard for a par parallel parking space in the street in this case they're not even parallel spaces because You' be able to pull in straight or back in so it's not like you'd even need to do a maneuver uh you know a typical parallel parking maneuver to get into to utilize what I consider two parking spaces so in effect we're not really sacrificing any significant significant on street parking correct and and just to point out with uh respect to parking two spaces are required we're providing four on-site spaces and and again you know in reality you could probably get at least two more parking or cars parked on that lot so we believe there's ample off street parking provided by this project do you think that Tommy you mentioned that in posi criteria that this design of that location pre traffic correct and that is that because it avoids in certain instances the having to back out near that intersection or drive which ISU Street that's correct what about you see any detriment to the public good or to the zoning ordinance on plan as a result should the board allow this to occur in this location I don't um as I said uh you know two pair cuts are permitted uh it comes down to the width of them um f I'm sorry two curb Cuts aren't permitted but with the 75t lot we would be Prov allowed to have the 18t curb cut so the 210 were basically the same uh so in that way it does respect The Zing ordinance forun we're not sacrificing any on street parking we're still maintaining approximately two spaces on Street between the C Cuts correct you see any public good I do not I mean again as the the neighborhood has been developed it would seem that the neighbors agree that this is a better alternative is there on the zoning there's not so I have a question the original approved 18t wide was on to the left of the property correct so now this other curve Cuts being r at where Stop Bar is and closer to the intersection which in my opinion makes it less safe and it's a three-way stop intersection so when you pull out the cars are stopped coming towards the bridge because there a sign cars on Huntington Avenue are stopped and cars coming along towards ventner on lagon drive or slowing down to a stop so now we're putting the driveway closer to that intersection which in my opinion is not ideal I think that's a matter of how how they're going to use the driveway and well they never use the driveway how they say they're going to use it well and Sen well you develop you developed the practice you after after using your own house while you devel coming out on the side so when two cars are parked in the driveway how's the second car get honey can you move your car please yes have somebody move their car if you they St the back out I it's not going to happen in every case and and if there's nobody there it's SP the there's nobody there you can back out like anywhere else Market but it does afford the opportunity on occasions to not have to back out adj that intersection because if you're trying to back out here matter whether here or here you don't know if this person on Huntington coming onto lagon where you have a better opportunity to see that if your nose out but if there's a car in front of the garage and you pull in the other way you have to back out I understand and that's I'm not denying that that's going to happen I'm not saying that this is a perfect scenario but in terms of percentages it's probably a better scenario but the driveway is further away from the intersection that gives you more time I mean there's sure right there point point counter point you know everything say right I understand that know it also it could also shift this way I think that's a sa configuration the two1 could certainly be done if want want that to sh this way off center think that's better that's also an option that we could we can design into the project I mean but for a but for the fact that this two curve cut thing seems Seems to create a problem for some there's a loss of there's a total loss of only two more feet of Frontage and no loss of par so it's hard to imagine when you have the potential to make this safer on some on some instances why that wouldn't be a good as opposed to saying no we're going to force you to back out every time and because your 10t further away from intersection over here that that makes up the difference you know give give Mrs Z an opportunity at least if she wants to to be able to pull out forward and that's what this does we kids to say now we have a rule and we're going to stick by that rule and you're going to back out next to that intersection every single time despite the fact there are opportunities to make that less often that's all not it's not a perfect not a perfect scenario but it just seems to make it somewhat safer for the hom and and and for people driving on people driving on good people driving on Huntington I mean somebody stopped at Huntington Stop in their way and see this driver's face and see what they're going to do and vice versa rather than rather than toying with the car backing out every single time it's just it it kind of like common sense I hate to say but it seems to seems to make sense I mean it to to say to have a a steadfast rule that you can't do that you're going to back out every time that doesn't make sense when there's a better when there can be a better alternative back into the driveway too sorry back what back what into the driveway sure yeah of course by uh Mr Zang just give us your name and address for the record please i s in address is1 ande please raise your right hand you swear affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth yes I do thank you so regarding you know the back back into the driveway or I think you know me and my wife we can coordinate the person next morning got to leave early we can set the person back into the garage you know you drive in through the um through through the intersection area we can back in here into the garage so the other person driving here right so we can leave that open basically you know it's not going to back into the you know the drive on the St again you have to leave open in the middle front of the house cars to back out of the you drive need to be left open in front of the house the one right in the middle left you put a car there can't back out you're backing out I know that's my wife we can person next morning you know you got to go to work earlier yeah then we got to probably do this back into the Gage so basically you're saying that you only have two cars you and your wife yes okay so one would go in one would go out it's not like you have five or six cars or they don't have that many cars so it's basically to keep you safe to keep your wife safe but not have accidents it happened the reason we ask the VAR because our regional driveway was on this side every time we back in there back out you know there's um there's a three core coming out there sometimes the people they don't follow their R back you know B pass the stops on the other hunting them they just you know make a quicker left turn and a lot of times we see them you know R miror we we didn't see the car but once we get on the street the car is already behind us it happened so many times you know that's why we your yeah and this this was important enough for you to wait to do this to right because you you did experience it the other way with with the single gri um I have a question is Tom so the car is in the driveway when they're going to back out is there enough swing room to get back into this U driveway because it looks like it's kind of tight to be able to make that swing to be able to take advantage of the exit from back this way yeah so you back out that's engineering question well that's back in but question is like yeah I mean I believe it certainly looks I Haven the temp on it it you have enough room back out also Point showing Park on we're only required to have to so if we weren't showing them I don't know that the question about blocking access and things like that would be there we could have you know with two cars now that whole thing is open for circulation on the site so I think you know that that's an alternative and that's that's the actual scenario that is anticipated by the application and by the owner yeah we live there almost seven years so know all this pretty much experience there's you know thank you it's yeah it's right on the the corner of Huntington it's it's really busy street especially in the morning scho intersection yes every day yeah you live there for seven years with configuration yes we have a problem every time you know then we start change you know try to back into the the driveway but every time when we get it there you know back in the traffic is already behind of us you know they all pissed over St you know it's very difficult situation for us you know it's their location just fact you're at that intersection creat problem plus you know this this stop stand right here I don't think it's safe for somebody to park there any if we have our driveway here without bar that's the stop sign right to ourty so I don't think you know anybody can park there anyway know um I got a question for you Tom we talked about the um 10 versus 12 foot curve Cuts if we we do attend is it going to be is it going to be safe is it going to be are you still going to be able to come in out of there or was there a reason that you designed a 12 C I not the designer no okay I think the idea will be it'll be it'll be 10 widen out as you go on on site right good okay um anybody else from the board uh anyone from the public like to speak public portion is closed if we're ready I'll I'll uh frame a motion it's a it's a c variance application it's just the one variance now to allow two two curve Cuts where one's permitted they're going to be two tens as opposed to 22s on those debts so that's just the one variance the conditions will uh the other conditions are you know subject to any other outside approvals that may be necessary subject to any uh representations made on behalf of the applicant or by the applicant during the course of the hearing and then just the standard conditions we put in every resolution I'll make that motion Tom Collins lot to talk about two curb guts but um you know I appreciate you getting up and giving your testimony M and it's um seven years of experience in that is important to know I've been driving through that neighborhood for 45 years and let me tell you you're right it's a really busy and it's a dangerous and you can have 100 stop signs traffic lights police every day it won't make a difference it's still going to be a tough neighborhood I think this is very very di Minimus I don't really see it stays with the character of the development it stays with the neighborhood it's a betterment for our Public Safety and for the children and the homeowners uh this is something that you know in case where it's very very Justified so I vote in favor Richard Patterson well I've got three or four good arguments against this and I'm not going to get into it only because of the location because of the location where it is I'm gu Michael Richmond yeah I actually have a circular curb cut and it definitely I know from experience it does make a difference pulling out um so it definitely fits the neighborhood pattern uh it's really not going to take away from any like Chris was saying earlier people that park there are not going to the beach it's not for commercials so I don't really think that's an issue and no we can only ask a circular curb cuss all over town absolutely not but you know every variance is specific to the um variance and I think in this situation uh the safety matter overrides uh any other concern I'm going to B yes stepen ji oh and by the way I do like also that uh the driveway is I don't know if you if everybody knows what a grassp is but it's it's like a it's like almost like a cinder block you put it but the grass grw through it so it's a lot more permeable than like a regular P yeah go ahead okay I see I certainly see the advantage of the circular driveway um um and use properly it would be helpful so I um I think you got a good argument here for it so I approve Michael R I don't have much to the other board members I from a safety standpoint the fact that there's circular driveways in the area think if we leave that single driveway not even be used so I Margaret Gober I agree with the other board members I think it's a better design for that location um there's a busy intersection um safety factor is everything you know you need to be safe backing out of there I don't any NE and I vote in favor John pittz Haven neighborh intersection quite often for this specific property at that specific location with that threeway intersection community be able to pull out and Craig palan Mr B presentation was one spot and homeowner you're living there seven years and dealing with this and going through this um benefit for you and the neighborhood and um you'll have to work the Barking out for yourself there make it make it usable you p forward and um I approve also with the rest of the application is approved with eight in favor and zero okay our next case is M Sim Capital GP LLC 110 South and Avenue block 1.02 L 12 located in the s30 zoning District seeking C variance relief for curb cut with and potentially others for a new single family home cental taxes Water and Sewer payments proof of advertising and notification provided representative by Eric s Colin Mr chairman good evening Eric Colin on behalf of the applicant this is also a curb cut case similar but a little bit different this is on the beach front of Andover Avenue there is an existing house being rebuilt now on a 100 foot wide lot uh the specific design uh that Mr uh Blackman put together on behalf of property own from OS has a oversized curve cut in front of the house further from the beach as opposed to being closer to the beach on what would be a more than double on Android so as you know this is s30 zoning we need 40 feet of Frontage which would give us a per cut across the street there are two homes directly next to each other with a very large curb cut between them so instead of two homes two curb Cuts this is one house just with an oversized single curb cut so Jerry's going to walk us through the house the house itself doesn't need any variances at all we're just talking about um the curb cut to align with the new design as all of you probably know Andover is no parking between 10 and 5 so this does not take away on street parking in the busy summer time when there's people going to it from the beach really has very little impact on the neighborhood because the homes and as Chris said earlier on his case the way the neighborhood development pattern has occurred you've got a few homes that are double curve cuts across the street a little further down you've got again directly across the street a side by side cut with homes on 40 foot wide Lots so I think what the town's going to get here this is approved is one house on a again more than double lot but uh Jerry can talk about the house a little bit and the curve cut and the needs for the variances but the house itself again doesn't need any variances so we don't want to get into the design of the house too much unless Roger or the board members have any questions is this a new house or reab it says it it's a new house new house yeah brand new from the ground up the house is already built so nothing to talk about with with the house it's just the alignment of where the driveway is going to go right so when you got when the plans were approved were you were approved with the 18 foot curb cut I think it was approved Roger with the 23 foot curb cut which what's there now because we didn't touch the curve cut at all left it exist that's where that's where we're getting that's where we're seeking the existing is 23 oh it is 27 okay I'm sorry to legalize the 27 yes because uh the house and things that's where Jerry can explain a little bit doesn't line up to what was there before with the new garage might be helpful why does an 18 foot line it up 18 doesn't line up to WR it up well we're seeking two driveways two driveways right sideway driveway it's one large driveway yeah show two vehicles park side by side parking correct two right correct so what what is the what's the problem with having any we get Mr uh Blackman sworn in might be able to give us a better testim as to how the house lines up with the dve okay it's Mr lck just give us your name and address for the record uh Gerald Blackman BL M The Firm of os design Partners 475 White Horse Pike Collingswood New Jersey okay Mr Blackman please raise your right hand you swear airm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth I do okay um just real quick ER it's been been a while or maybe never but for your qualifications and uh plans I have testified before this board before yeah that I'm a registered architect and a professional planner state of New Jersey 33 years of experience I have two degrees in architecture I've testified probably before two dozen boards in New Jersey previously so J just walk us through the board has some questions of course you heard yeah there was there was an existing single family home on the on the property previous and we designed a new home for the property the existing curb cut um was originally proposed to remain the existing curb cut were proposing this shift South the existing curve cut extends it's approximately 16 in north of the north property line so it it begins to straddle the side property line not by a lot by 16 inches whereas you know a driveway required by ordinance to be at least a foot away from the proper line you know and then you can have an 18t wide Max driveway um we're actually proposing to shift the curve cut to align with the garage as designed with the new house that's being built it's about 70% completed at this point um the reason that we're proposing that you know the curve cut to be shifted is because the the driveway is further south than what the existing one was the existing driveway was on the order 23 24 ft wide but the curb cut was about 27 ft wide we're just proposing to take the same 27t wide curb cut shifted South to a line with the new garage now the question's been asked fairly why not an 18 foot curve cut you have a double driveway you know we have two cars 18 feet is fine um I guess I would submit to the the board if you know you travel down hand over it's a 50 foot RightWay you know it's a much smaller actual cart way the more width I can get to turn into that driveway especially if there's a car already parked on the driveway the better I think it promotes more efficient circulation not only pulling in but backing out as well especially if there is a car already on the driveway and I will indicate that the um you I think it's just generally accepted that if you're allowed an 18 foot driveway you're also allowed an 18 curb cut the B ordinance doesn't regulate the curb cut driveway I think it's just generally accepted 18t driveway and 18t curve cut um I think in general practice though the curve PL is actually a little wider than the driveway actually is um and I think it's promote that you know more safe turning especially if you have a larger vehicle and the house is being built with permits this isn't something that oh yes yes the house has been permitted it did not need any variances it's a two and a half story house complies with height complies with set complies with building coverage we actually exceed the the amount of landscaping amount of landscaping in the front yard we have to exceed that and I think rather comfortably as well a question on the uh on the plan where you have the two driveways drawn on yep the two Cur two drives y um what is next to that versus garage is that just the grass is that grass there yes yeah on the north side of the house driveway the new driveway will cover that grass area you drivek on the grass no no we're not actually yeah I mean the curve pad would extend that far but we're not proposing in 9t that way yeah almost 10t and that's we require 9 parkes yeah correct yeah we're not proposing really like fo yes yeah we're not proposing to park there though no but yeah par grass dri to be clear let's just there's no parking proposed to the Bayside of the house just the driveway the driveway Drive corre no Park 9 driveway you're not going to park in front of you're not going to use it to drive right no it'll be it'll be Landscaping I don't understand why you need to be able to more safely turn in and out of the parking spaces sure I don't understand what's uni about this place that it needs extra every place there's no park on the street Su so there's not sze between cars 50 foot streets are normal I don't you're Shifting The Curve cut anyway I don't see why 18 not sufficient but it's easier to pull in a 27 of can we can we um you got a second it's actually 27 right but it's a brand new house and you're shifting it anyway so why not make conform um actually on their plan they show conforming and they cite the code of 18 ft have a submitted plan is showing Shifting the existing 27f footer to the is this notth is this not your plan was part of the application it's last revision eight last revision eight September 23rd like I can't see the title block on this that is your plan right it is our plan yes but but I don't know what I don't know what version this is the submitt plan has a date of September 23rd but there's no title block on this on this copy to when you build a new house and I'm a builder in Margate and bner and law en you don't get you don't get to keep the old curve it doesn't happen are you going to are you going to replace the sidewalk we are yeah so you don't get to keep the curve cut the the the plan was approved with an 18t curve cut I mean you you could have build that house and it could have been a curb cut all the way across the whole sidewalk you don't get to keep the the curb cut the curb cut was approved at 18 ft that's what the house was approved at not 21 feet not 27 ft the thing about the parking thing is yeah after 5:00 I see it every day people people come and park on on the Andover Avenue I just did a big job on and Avenue I know exactly what I'm talking about again I know about more about curb Cuts than [Laughter] anybody I'm I'm saying when you build a new house you have to get and form is 18 curve cut and it's on the approved plan well we're not Mr Richmond I'm not sure about that that that's that's so here's the question what and we may have to press pause to find out what the stamp plan actually says okay well 18 foots required I get it but what if the plan was approved at a larger number I had the right to resend that my we have to take a look at that because if the plan is signed look it could have been a good fith mistake but I don't think Mr building this would have submitted something purposely trying to dup the board or to dup the city but the fact is that it's shows on his plan is 18 ft and he he even cites the code 175 that's 30 D5 well that's not a signed plan Roger that's a plan that you have that could have been a preliminary plan I don't think think my point is I don't think any of us have enough information we don't to continue to go forward until we find out what the actual signed plan say if there's a signed plan that says 23 or 27 or 18 that's what we're governed by we're governed by what was signed well if it was signed in good faith because there was a good faith error and they're this far along I would venture to say that might not be res sinable eight revisions if you that's not our problem that's that's Road I mean that's so we're here tonight to approve doing something with the Curve correct okay so let's just move forward and hear the testimony and we'll go from there well I don't know if it's if it's right to continue Mr Richmond for this reason the board might have a set of facts that we are unaware of we may have a set of facts that you're aware I think it's important to make sure that we're all talking about the same thing Apples to Apples what we'd like to do is to press pause we'll go to the city we'll see what plans are act or to Mr poy what plans are assigned because we don't want to go forward on something we may not need to and at the same time we don't want the city to base its decision planning board on a set of plans that may or may not have been the final set and what Roger has in front of him is a set of plans but there's no title block on it and it's not the set of plans that's clearly on site but it was submitted in your application this is the plan that we submitted that might have been in the staff committee application postp it yeah no we're gonna just postpone it yeah okay great we'd like the board to retain jurisdiction while we're looking at this but without prejudice we'd like to find out what the plan that is signed actually that's all yeah and we're not voting on something unnecessary that's fine so are you saying if the sign plan say 27 VAR correct I disagree with that actually your application says the new curve cut and apron is proposed at 23 feet wide or 18 feet wide is permitted by Margate zoning ordance that's what the application's for you do know to find out but in my opinion it doesn't if I approve 50 foot wide it was an error and it should be 18 yeah but that unfortunately I don't want to get into a legal argument if a municipal government official signs something that BS the government good faith mistake finds the government yeah I agree we just said we're going to postpone it yeah absolutely I agre yeah I me I agree we don't have to ass that issue I I agree we should get all the facts and have them before us question is when well we can probably find out pretty quickly we can talk to the Builder immediately find out what set of plans he's working off of and from that if he has a set that says well let's find out what it says before we start speculating on what to do next right I assume you want you don't want to read noce or anything no the board can retain jurisdiction on a postponement we can just figure out between now and the next meeting we may not have to come back at all we may like Tom said it may not be something for this board it maybe for someone else to look at okay yeah all right so we're g we're done right yeah we okay next month November now it would be December we have like six or seven cases do you have to come back December so I'll say this post to December 19th 2024 that's a 700 p.m meeting here 6:30 uh in this room the applicant will not be required to republish or Reen notice for December 19th 2024 7 p.m. just with the caveat if you don't mind Mr Man said in the event a bunch of stuff drops off we're ready to go we might be ready to go the next time this is a possible board meeting say it agains canell right yeah oh all right so yeah I just there's no one here I get that but you got to make a clear record so to clarify looks like it's going to be either the November November 21st potentially November 21st at at 7 pm we have a full agenda assuming nothing drops off then it's most likely going to be December 19th 2024 at 7 p.m. in this room so if anyone's here um check the agenda for November 21st if you don't see it come back December 19th thank you okay okay our last case dowj Properties LLC 119 North Brunswick block 303.01 Lot 10 located in the s25 zoning District seeking SE VAR leave for the front yard set back to house front yard set back to porch and potentially others in order to construct a new single family home current on taxes Water and Sewer payments proof of advertising and notifications provided represented by Eric Goldstein so Mr chairman um just by way of some background here Eric real quick I think uh Miss guberti has to recuse herself and I she's probably gonna leave understood I believe this is a house for sale with one of her agents so that's correct correct so when this um initial report came out uh there was some requests for revisions which I think you're getting now Roger has some uh issues with number of variances that were not called out in the original plan Mr Mr Zaki the architect revised the plan to I think address three of those issues one of which was the third floor debt one of which was coverage we do have a revised um rendering along along with a third floor diagram showing how the houses to be built and with the exception of those changes and if you go through Roger report which we agree with the third floor deck did not meet the definition based upon uh the pent roof which we know is important and the remainder of um the revisions are in front of you which we're get some testimony on tonight as to how we fixed a little bit concerns for the property and then ultimately what we're seeking by way of the variances so I don't know if Roger you want to go through the report first or if you want to uh so I think I got an email from Mark saying he's going to correct the curb cut width and the revised shows 20 the revised plan should show 18 that yeah site plan still shows site plan shows shows 20 it's 18 so if that's incorrect we are definitely not going for 20 okay yeah one shows 18 20 it's 18 just really briefly it's uh I'll just go through the vences standard front yard setback uh minimum front yard setback to the deck for the first FL where as a minimum front yard setback Bas onail setbacks 6.65 ft and 5.33 ft is proposed again at forther first and second floor deck as well as a third floor deck will be I don't know what the new measurement will be but that's a bar too for the third floor deck set back more than likely unless they reduce it by 1.32 feet minimum front yard set back to the principal building whereas a minimum front yard setback B prevailance setback is 1323 feet and 11.33 feet at propos third floor deck encroachment and curve cut width are being eliminated so that's Prett Corney is with me this evening testify plan just walk us through any questions the board might have so uh Le if you don't mind sure uh Mr Carney just uh your name and business address please please raise your right hand you sarir the testimony you're about to give be the truth more more as a fact witness correct draftsman he actually draws the plans of course Mr Z we gave you guys you know the front elevation rendering which uh obviously it looks really nice but the so we're going into the front yard set back obviously the big big question is the third FL deck overhang 1.4 feet you know so I don't know if Mark would be interested in pulling it back that's why we're here for the variants obviously so that's the that's the one issue and side well you can keep it where it is but the roof would be further back Ro the pent roof does come come back I mean the back of it so the deck side otherwise you need to set back to the deck on this side yeah okay so excuse okay all right go ahead so obviously the that was the our main issue I guess with the the front yard setback uh for the deck and obviously the building setb back you know minuscule obviously the requirement based on the calculation 1323 11 we do need variances Roger that's still the same for each deck first second third we're at the same distance 5.3 correct Roger yes yes so it's not just the one it's to the de and just want to make sure that when Mr Zaki finally prepared satisfies you Ro Roger with regard to the um pent roof and the waves being constructed because that we're not seeking a variance right but is what you have now satisfactory in your opinion to meet the code yes okay I I only see it from the front I don't know what it is from the side the overhang yes 1.4 1.4 on each each overhand side side so the front of the pent roof does not go past the front of the decks below the does well the ordin says it can't okay that we'll pull that back that that's something which we know the board's very conscious of so with regard to yeah the overhang extended correct because I know that's something that the board is always conscious of that you have two decks lining up and then you have a roof above hanging over even so so that's not going to be fix correct I have a question the building set building setb the building setback it's two feet over it's two feet bigger than it should yeah um and I when I look at the other the setbacks of buildings on the street they're 15 foot 13 foot 138 128 12.8 and this one want to be 11 going to be the going to be the closest one on the street in the front building set back and I I question why on an empty lot you can't make the house yeah I mean it because it's five bedrooms you can make it four bedroom house is it because I mean a lot the lot small as it is you know how people are they want they want bigger rooms I know you're exactly right the lot the lot is small I feel the house should be SP that's my feeling I feel the house should be um what you what do you plan on the backyard deck the backyard deck ground level yeah there's there is a the last page there showing the square footages of each floor and ground the ground level I believe so yes that's that's what we were talking about so that third four thir page like past you as it shows the layout of that the ground floor the third page of this all the dimensions in verbage were taken off first small do you want to know what's under it Mr Pomano or there was a question about the back I didn't know if it's that grade and there's no elevation of it yeah so that that third page doesn't show the the second floor or the first floor my biggest concern isra okay landscap yes I'm not quite okay so on the ground floor so you do I'm sure some of the board members like this Tom it is open underneath there so you follow me till you get to the garage so instead of that being enclosed it's open you know what I'm saying right now in the back is that that that line there is that is is that all open under there where it says Veranda or is that closed off that's open that is all open that's all open so it's all open right so the only area you have downstairs is the room for the one cor garage the elevator and the F closet that's it right okay look as this P Santa points out of course we see this all the time it's a vacant lot so you have the ability to do anything trying to make it you know as nice as possible and and this is one of those cases where we are trying to max out the house and actually more than Max it out because that's what the builders do we can't make something up about so so when we talk about what the end result is what you're getting as Mr Richmond points out is it's fairly open on the first level kind of all the way around there a couple of minor deviations from De the front which they're fairly minor we're going 5.33 where we need it to be at 6.65 Mr Pomo points out of course the front yard set backs of the building which is open in that direction anyway so that's really what we're looking at the other the other the other comment I had was um there's car a car in the garage a car in front of the and one in front of the front door the third one for that I know you don't get as much yeah small lot you do for but the house we took down a house that was prob a little three bedroom Rancher on that street and there are think a lot of house so you're in for the for the house you're asking basically for an extra two feet right slightly less yeah Bas it's two feet we'll call it two feet right we're willing to pull that third FL deck yeah I I I guess we'll does anybody else from the board want to have any questions or comments or anything like that I think uh if you look at this I'm sorry you want to go first well thank you about to fall asleep so let me go first I agree with you've got the minimum lot the minimum legal lot size 25 s and I think you're putting too big of a house I don't think you need any Varan I think jamming a big house is the biggest complaintant hous I think the is too big for can I go you I agree with Mr Patterson 100% you just you could have let me go and then you wouldn't had to talk you could have fell asleep personally um I like the deck's right now are six foot right so personally I wouldn't even have a problem with the decks staying where they are because you know six foot deck is but I do agree with Mr Patterson and Mr Collins and Mr pom that we can do something with the house if we got if you have to eliminate a bathroom or I I I look I think all your comments are probably correct come here a lot try to get on get questions from someone usually Greg John saying does it have to be this big and of course what we're doing here this isn't an end user house it's a builder house and they want to make the house as big as greig said that it's more money more bedrooms it's what we do uh we hear you about the setbacks um and talking to Mr Carney there's a good possibility with maybe a quick text message or something that we could eliminate to setep back to the house Mr Richmond's comment is one that we would like to follow up on a little bit because decks are important you know set back to the house itself okay you know you can squeeze a or Matt and his gang can squeeze enough out of the room to make that a little less noticeable but when you're on a deck you're in Margate and you want to enjoy your outdoor space that's something where every so would have a problem perhaps what we could do if you give us Eric I think where you're at though is you're you're still doing a five-bedroom house where it should be four you're jamming too many cars in when they give a five-bedroom house typically these days the Builder gets it somebody buys it they ended uping 10 to 12 cars that neighborhood can substantiate they really do they bring it well eight cars but I was just saying it's it's depends on the neighborhood the size of the lot and the location so if this was in a different area on a wider Street somewhere else it might support that site of the house I don't know if he's going to say I cut a bedroom cut a parking space because you that door should be Mr Collins you are 100% correct because but regardless of that it's a it's it will be a five bedroom house one way or the other but what we would say is if we made it conform with the setback to the building then you're getting a five-bedroom house that conforms with a very very slightly bigger de and that's what we would amend the application everything would be compliant but for the deck sizes because again if this is all denied it'll be a five bedom house have the same parking configuration you'll just have smaller decks house will be smaller but right we're going to we're going to ConEd on the house so the house will be back regardless because it sounds like that would be denied anyway but we would go with a slightly very slightly larger deck situation as Mr uh Richmond had kind of com this way you're getting a five bedroom mou either way you're eliminating the setback to the building you're eliminating 20 cut to 18 you've got a compliant third floor deck and then the variance would be size of the decks in Rogers report on the item fourth one day so what would the Vari be 1.3 feet it would still be the same same yeah same size that's the third floor no well the third floor deck's being pulled in so it be the the first and second floor roofs and the uh Pence being uh compliant so what would the first and second floor de so right now they're at six feet well I guess you're going to have to if you push the house back then the decks would be a little wider one fo four in yeah right yeah right right the going to be any bigger the house will be compliant um and then the same parking issue will exist because it'll be the same bedroom count but you'll be getting a smaller house so this right here it says the house laid out 38 right now the house itself so you're going to be down to right well a little less 368 and a half whatever yeah two well actually it's it's two right the one deck the second the number of decks but it's the same distance the time's correct I'm agreeing with everything you're all saying all right so I disagree with bottom line is we're going to have two variances first and second floor deck is that correct first Flor second floor deck back4 right or less right that's correct okay anybody else from the board anybody from the Public Public okay public portion is closed Le all right so we're down to two variances it's going to be front yard setback C variance application we'll need a motion a second roll call vote but two variances for the first floor deck and the second floor deck requirements 6.65 feet and each of those two decks will be at 5.33 feet the third floor deck will be pushed back so that'll meet the setback requirement that uh the the house will meet the front yard the house itself will meet the front yard set back requirement that pent roof will not no longer extend past the lower decks and the curb cuts the curb cut width will be 18 ft so those will all comply I'll note those um in terms of any other conditions anything else in Mr mcclaren's report unless we otherwise addressed it any representations made on behalf of the applicant subject to any outside approvals that may necessary I'll make that motion Tom Collins since it's down to two small variances on the decks and it's very di Minimus I vote in favor Richard Patterson I vote in favor for the same reason Michael Richmond I vote in favor for the same reason stepen ji I don't feel this meets the SE two variant the only benefit that that the only person that benefits from this is the owner i v no Michael rfel I'm in agreement with the other board members who voted gu I I also appr commissioner John pittz uh yeah only Craig Paul mession I vote yes thank yeah application is approved with five in favor and two opposed no um there's other two things on the agenda we're gonna have to we're busy next month it won't take long but we'll have to deal with them next month unless Roger has anything else second all in favor I