##VIDEO ID:ULvCxgMqYNg## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e oh you're on Ever Green hey we are back and we are taking up public hearing number one which is a public hearing and final assessment resolution for the long awaited Evergreen Windstone water main Municipal service benefit unit does it say long awaited yes it does four years right good afternoon Commissioners uh Mr David Duncan will be making the presentation Donna could you put on the PowerPoint ready uh good afternoon Commissioners for the record David Duncan senior project manager for the utilities and Solid Waste Department Martin County utilities received a petition from the Evergreen Windstone residents asking the utilities department to ballot the area for the provision of water service to 400 Parcels that would uh that would that currently did not have availability of water service after the completion of construction drawings and cost proposals received from our annual underground contractors a staff level Workshop was held on December 3rd at the IRSC Wolf Center to explain the uh project scope with Associated costs and the assessment process a Florida Department of Environmental Protection permit for construction had been received by this department and the lowest cost proposal had been selected from The Martin County annual underground construction contractors so as you see on slide two this is a site plan of the Evergreen club and Windstone Community um some of the obvious anticipated benefits to the community would be enhanced water quality that would ensure the reliability of the water supply as well as well as continuous Supply during power outages and because it will be uh we will be installing fire hydrants along the water supply system there is a potential for the homeowners to recognize a reduction in homeowners insurance rates the proposed assessment includes 400 properties at 400 erc's as indicated in the slide the total project cost is 5,341 570 and the utilities department is contributing 1, 371,000 reducing the annual accessible cost to 3,970 570 therefore the sum is divided by 400 equivalent residential connections for the estimated prepayment amount of of 9,926 43 per connection that equates to an annual payment of $634 186 per unit amateurz over 20 years at a rate of 1.52% plus interest in standard fees Martin County utilities currently serves 36,700 water customers and has an average residential consumption use of about 6,000 gallons per month at a rate of $2.50 per th000 gallons based on the average water consumption including the base rate of $19.50 the average resident average residential water customer would pay approximately $34.50 per month with the approval of the final assessment resolution today the department anticipates commencing construction on February or in February of 2025 and estimates an 11-month construction phase completing in January of 2026 um lump sum payments of the assessment by the property owners would be due August 1st of 2025 and any payments not received by that date would show up on the annual tax bill in November of 2025 that concludes my presentation questions for staff we have one request from the public to speak would you like to go before no she can yeah uh Sean Garen Mr Garen is not here anymore commissioner campy I wanted to take a moment uh but first I'll make a motion to accept staff's recommendations and I wanted to take a moment to thank you to complement our staff uh before I complement the residents this had been a process for many years actually uh all the way back we've had to change policies based on the the neighborhood here how we used to collect ballots was challenged I think we've been at this for more than 10 10 12 years right correct uh and the residents have waited for a long time and um so the same faces well a couple of there one new face um but really did a remarkable job of soothing the concerns of the residents educating them informing them on exactly what the process would be like uh answering all of my questions I would steer people that would contact me to you all and you would handle it uh very professionally as you always do we've had several meetings we've had Community meetings at the library and when people are unsure about how a process will go sometimes can get a little agitated and a little aggressive and you all were consumate professionals and I wanted to say thank you so much for making one getting the project done two making my life easier and to the residents there was a handful uh not even a handful like a single Handful in each neighborhood that really led the charge for the rest of their residents taking some slings and arrows from people that were nervous about the process but uh I think what we ended up with is a very fair process it'll bring water which is the start of a lot of terrific things a lot of folks were in the process of figuring out do I do a new reverse osmosis do I start with a new salt system what am I doing here am I digging a new well and so the timing is perfect and so thanks to the residents that really in their individual neighborhood has led the charge like boots on the ground and that's how we are where we are today it seems like hey we're just voting on an agenda item but there was so much behind the scenes from so many to make it possible thank you so congratulations to all commissioner caps you're curious about the history of this um application and effort like how long did have the people been trying to get the city water to their neighborhood and that kind of thing like with this particular project more than 10 years ago I don't remember the specific dates but we received a petition from the folks and typically what happens is we receive a petition signed by a majority of the neighborhood and if we receive that then we'll do some preliminary efforts of Designing the project preliminarily and putting together a cost estimate then we send out individual ballots to every property owner based upon our estimate and we give a range of what the potential assessment will be and we do that three times to make sure we reach out to everybody possible the very first time it went around it failed and my recollection was we had like 90% of the people voted and it failed by like seven properties so it was a number of years before it came back up again we realized it was going to come forward again so based upon that and uh the residents starting to talk to us more often we start of the process also of applying for a state revolving fund loan to construct this project which we were eventually successful in doing um but the cost had gone up a lot since then so essentially through a number of discussions we raled the neighborhood and that's the latest votes that we have here so hope that gives you the background you're looking for oh thank you that's the process we use for all our accessible projects the interesting thing that happened in this particular project is after that original vote we used to do the votes inhouse and collect the ballots and kept here someone smartly sort of cunningly made a public records request for the ballots and then went and browbeat the neighbors that didn't vote the way that they wanted them to and then the neighbors called up and said how dare you show our votes so we have since switched that process from being handled internally to having supervisor of election Vicky Davis handling it because her rules and regulations on how she has to show votes is different and now we have secured that system to be confidential and it was because of this neighborhood that that took place Mr Donaldson yeah just two two two other quick things to add to this and one of the things that happened of course the project was a little bit snake bit too in the fact that they had a design for construction to go uh an easy route from Crossing one part of the canal to the other and then the Water Management District or core I don't remember which one said we couldn't do it that way so the price went way up um and then one of the other things that the board I think was a good decision is because of this project was sort of remote the cost of getting water to the front of the of the subdivision was also a large cost and one of the policies that we direct came out of that is that if you're in the urban service boundary to try to uh encourage our you know to provide the utility services that the utility and the count we get the service up to the community and the assessments based upon Distributing it throughout so that was a that was a big deal as well and so I think that's really ultimately uh the the the residents were a little frustrated on the ups and downs of the cost um but ultimately I think uh it is a great project and it's well needed for this community further comments there's a motion by commissioner campy seconded by hington all those in favor I I opposed that motion motion passes unanimously congratulations on to public hearing number two public hearing to adopt notice of intent resolution required by section 197 3632 Florida statutes for special assessments and once again Phil Keithley with utilities department I'm going to let Mr David Duncan uh make the presentation oh too far H good afternoon again um for the record David Duncan senior project manager with the utilities and Solid Waste Department this is a public hearing to adopt a non-binding resolution declaring the board's intent to use the uniform method of collection for non-ad vorum assessments for a proposed series of special assessments that may be imposed within certain Municipal service benefit units to be established for road paving ancillary drainage dredging Services storm water services and facilities and water and or Wastewater projects section 197 3632 Florida statute requires that the county hold a public hearing and adopt a resolution of intent to use the uniform method of collection for any Assessment program in the calendar year prior to such collection the resolution which does not obligate the county either to use the uniform method of collection or to impose any one special assessment must be adopted by January 1st 2025 and sent to the tax collector the property appraiser and the Department of Revenue by January 10th of 2025 additionally section 197 3632 requires that the notice of the public hearing to adopt the resolution of intent be published for four consecutive weeks immediately preceding the date of the hearing the notice of intent was properly advertised and the Affidavit of publication of the notice of intent will be part of the resolution the notice of intent allows the county to meet its statutory notice requirements necessary to use the uniform collection method the resolution to be adopted today is a non-binding and the board May reduce the geographic area covered by any future assessment or decide not to impose any special assessment at a later date by adop the resolution the board is simply preserving the right to use the uniform collection of method collection method beginning in November 2025 for projects implemented prior to such date staff's recommendation is for the board to accept the public comment and adopt the resolution of intent to use the uniform collection of method for non-ad vorum assessments that concludes my presentation would anyone from the public like to address us on H PH2 any questions for staff yeah I'm sorry um yes um so could could you break this down in two sentences what that what this means to the public I know what you said reserving the right for us maybe I can try to do that so it um so the last item you just heard was um uh went through a public hearing process a couple of hearings before you finally adopt it to um create a municipal Services benefit unit uh an mmpu uh and in order for the board to use that method you have had to have advertised the potential use of it the year before so uh and you'll see some of the these listed proper projects and it's and while utilities is present presenting it it actually spans multiple departments and your most common type of Municipal service benefit unit project would be I live on a dirt road you know um and I want my road paved um and and and and and we're willing to pay for it and the and the government's method of doing that would be to use the msbu process um that's one form of it util ities is obviously provideing the the properties um share for a water or sewer project and as if you listen they we've also used it probably one of the few counties here and there for a dredging project um but uh the so it it it Services projects that uh have would have to have a specific benefit to the property so it is going to do some sort of uh uh Municipal project that benefits the property water sewer Paving roads storm water drainage those types of things could also fall into it so this this agenda item in its simplest form is just simply the list of projects that the board has either considered in their CIP uh or that staff has had some uh information from the community or a project that uh we may be considering next year so if we if it's not on the list it simply means that you could still pursue a project in a neighborhood but you couldn't use the MSB methodology next year you would have to wait another year so so this just simply preserves the right it doesn't mean we're going to do the project because any project on this list will still go through a rather exhaustive process of having to demonstrate the the the cost of it um uh public hearings and meetings that we have through our practice of meeting with neighborhoods before you would see it come back to you but that's that's what this agenda item is um in its simplest form as we have a an advertisement in the newspaper or that or whatever the legislature allows us to do now which I guess is a um but uh that would announce all these projects and they have to have a specific boundary so some projects might be like the Evergreen would be the just the community boundary some of them might be just the listing of a street and in some cases it might list a much larger geographic area when you go to do the project the project can be smaller than you originally advertise but it could be no bigger so that's um it was probably a little bit of a long- winded piece but that's that is so this is a really a a collection of a aggregate of a number of projects that could be done using the non avalum assessment methodology uh which we use our tax collector to put on your tax bill okay so Martin County would be can you hear me I don't know if you can he Martin County would be paying for the dirt road let's say he says no I I so so me so and it's it could be 100% of just the property owners so this is again it's a method to assess the benefited property so if it went through the process for instance um and I'll go back to the last one as an example um it could have been that the property owners paid 100% And the county only provided Staffing services to bring it to you and we bid it out and that kind of thing but there isn't um uh but depending upon the board's policy and the practice and there's also some legal tenants about when we need to provide a um uh a portion at share um and so they could it could be 100% property owner or some portion thereof that's decided on each project decided on each project does this come also from CIP funds um the funding could come from yes absolutely these would be CIP projects a lot in fact all of them ultimately would be in your CIP um some of them may be not in the CIP right now and would only become added to the CIP if they get developed within the next year to be something real okay commissioner caps yeah my my question has has to do with definitions MST Tu versus msbu and as I understand the msbu to me what that means is everybody on the street pays the same amount of money you well no it it the property pays in proportionate to its benefit so I'll try to keep it simple if it's like a road project and I have a th000 feet of Road Frontage and my neighbor only has a hundred it may be a per foot cost or you know so it would be in proportion to the so a Buu is in proportion to the benefit to the property another example would be drainage if we were doing drainage improvements and I had five acres and my neighbor only had one acre the 5 acre generates more drainage runoff so they would pay in proportion to that metric and we have uh a um uh some attorneys and Specialists that help us ensure that when we do these assessments that the um that the method of determining proportionate share is done legally and and is based upon facts a tu is a is is simply a collection of funds that is used for a municipal service that would be similar to what like a city might do we could be for fire rescue for instance or we have a storm water you know where we're providing Municipal services and that Geographic boundary is established within an ordinance and that's based upon the property value of the so you set a millage every year on that one and that's not in proportion to the benefit to the property owner it's just a it's it's similar to an ADV Valor it's tax that you would uh uh but it's a municipal tax um and uh and it falls under its own 10 mil cap if you will um the legisl allows counties to use mstu um to provide services similar to what a city might need to so they they recognize that counties also have to provide S Services similar to a city and that's the municipal Services taxing unit so we're we're deciding on the uniform method of collection the msbu yes would there be any any other Alternatives not that I really think that would be a good thing I'm just curious like is is there a is there another option yes I I was I'm sorry I was trying to if it's okay um what this what this statute allows us is to use the tax roll as a way the tax bill to send the bill and then they will will you know pay that assessment it's possible um to to send people bills but that's obviously C cost prohibitive most of the time plus then you have to go forward and have to uh do Collections and the legal department suing our citizens which we certainly do not want to do and so this is a uniform method it's been in place for years and years and years but I can tell you back in the olden days it was I think in Martin County there was a period of time when we first uh formed our utility service we were sending out bills and I can say that was not an effect way of doing business so this provides a uniform method that provides in my opinion a lot of notice and to our taxpayers so they know what to do and it again doesn't obligate you to any particular project it just allows you to Avail yourself and notify the property appraiser and the tax collector who are integral to making this work the utilities department for example when they have a project they're working with the property appraiser and the tax collector and our special assessment Council to make sure that everything is done and again then we don't have collection costs it you know if people don't pay these then it's it's related to the tax bill hence the notice again to let people know it's coming but I think a quick answer is there's usually always other Alternatives yes and and so um uh and I'll leave you with these two examples so I I think some communities have used the mstu like in a private community that wanted street lights and that sometimes the counties uh we haven't used it so much here would establish a a single mstu for some um HOA uh to have fpnl put in lights and we pass we collect the bill for them right so under an mstu so that's one method um the other might be instead of using a storm water uh special assessment or an msbu you might establish a storm water utility so there's always different methods of doing things but these are uh to um uh ones that we used uh mstu and msbu are are um a common practice especially when it's a smaller project that you want the those specific Property Owners to pay for the benefit they're receiving right uh similar can you hear me yes all right um she just turned me off but similar to what Hutchinson Island had they had an mstu and that was to put lighting that was lower to the ground so it wouldn't shine so the tortoises would not walk across A1A and they wouldn't get misguided and also the plantings they had that also specifically yeah so that's uh you know and that so the hutchon L Ms to is actually a broader if you look at it it was to provide multiple types of Services of which a portion of those funds were used for um uh the uh Beacher nurishment and a portion of the funds were used for some matching funds for DOT projects and and uh and there was a lighting project at one time as well so that enabling language of that mstu is in the Hutchinson Island Municipal Services taxi youit has a specific ordinance that limits how you all uh can spend the money uh and they can be so it can be fairly broad or can be very narrow so there are some limitations on what the hutchon island mstu can be used for and it's written in that in that ordinance and I I could provide it to you I just don't remember off the top of my head what it there are limitations though thank you is there a motion to approve staff's recommendation U I'll make the motion to approve staff's recommendation second there's a motion by commissioner heatherington seconded by commissioner Vargas all those in favor I oppos that motion passes unanimously before we go on to Mango Terrace um Miss Gordon would you like to do the uh bnc1 do you have all those in okay so while um who's coming forward we're going to to take mango Terrace which is public hearing quas judicial one and fill out your voting sheets in the meantime oh she missing ni some Waters big day big day for Waters big box are you ready I'm ready oh I'm sorry I this is a a quasi judicial uh proceeding uh this is a public hearing to consider a request for a ride of way width variance for Northeast mango Terrace commissioner Vargas any expart disclosures that's already been filed okay if I have any that have been in they have been filed if I have any they've been filed you have them they've been filed I didn't have any uh other than emails that have been put through and that's been filed I haven't had any conversations sorry I do and they've been filed okay um would anyone who's going to be providing testimony please stand up raise your right hand and be sworn in Raise Your Right hands do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and have all the materials that need to go to the clerk been passed on to theer yes it's just the agenda item for this one so yes okay interveners are there any interveners there are no interveners in this type of hearing then proceed staff this is a request by Frank and Michelle cassella to adopt a resolution granting a variance for the RightWay width for Northeast mango terce in addition the board is requested to accept Northeast mango Terrace into the County's Road inventory as publicly owned and maintained upon the issuance of the Road opening permit and the county Engineers acceptance of the construction of the roadway I apologize my name is Michael gel I'm the County engineer for the record the the background on this this property on April April 19th 1949 the plat of mango Lane was recorded in plat book 2 page 66 of the public records of Martin County Florida and included a dedication of the plat at rights of way to the public on February 7th 1952 the amended plat of mangel Lane was recorded in plat book 2 page 76 of the public records of Martin County Florida and included a dedication of the plat at rights away to the public a portion of the RightWay adjacent to lot 7 8 22 and 23 was abandoned on September 5th 1967 the remainder of the RightWay adjacent to Lots 9 through 13 17A and 7 19 through 21 were not constructed and therefore were not included in the County's Road inventory when it was adopted in 1972 for roads that were not constructed in rights a way that were platted prior to 1972 it has been the County's procedure to require the road the roads to be constructed in accordance with the County's current standards prior to accepting the roads into the county road the County's Road inventory Frank Michelle cassella would like to open the road and sell the lots to individuals that wish to construct homes on the lots of record section 4843 K of the Martin County Land Development regulation provides in order for a building permit to be issued for the constructure of any structure the lot must directly front an open road accordingly Frank and Michelle cassella will be submitting a Road opening permit application to open portions of the plat Road right ofo and construct the road to County standards section 4.84 3B two of the  County Land Development reg regulations provides variances may be granted by the Board of County Commissioners for rights of way with implats that were recorded prior to 1972 where the previously acquired right of way is less than the required minimum RightWay Frank and Michelle cassella are requesting the board of County Commissioners Grant a variance for the RightWay withd for Northeast mango Terrace the RightWay width for the first approximately 170 ft of Northeast mango Terrace immediately east of Northeast Skyline Drive will be 30 ft in width instead of the required 50t for kurban gutter Road and Frank and Michelle cassella will dedicate the additional required 10 ft of rideway from each of the existing lots of record 9 10 11 12 18 192 and 21 with the road opening permit application for construction of a county standard curbing gutter road if authorized the following Road characteristics will be added into the County's Road inventory upon issuance of a Road opening permit and completion of construction and acceptance by the County engineer the name of the road is Northeast mango Terrace the length will be 5 7 ft the limits are east of Northeast Skyline Drive the ownership will be Martin County the maintaining entity will be Martin County the functional classification will be local residential rideway width will be 30 ft proportion of it and 50 ft for the remainder pavement width and type will be 20 ft of asphalt sidewalk width will be 6 feet on on one side of the road method of storm water treatment will be Drive retention and the posted speed limit will be 25 M hour the staff recommendation is to move move that the board receive and file the agenda item and all attachments including the staff report as exhibit one move that the board adopt a resolution granting a variance for the RightWay width for Northeast mango terce and accept Northeast mango terce into the County's Road inventory is publicly owned and publicly maintained upon the issuance of the Road opening permit and the County engineer acceptance of the construction of the roadway an alternative recommendation is move that the Border County Commissioner directs staff to review the road opening permit application and prior to the issuance of Road opening permit to return to the board for final action to accept the road into the County's Road inventory or number two would be provide staff Direction and that is the end of staff's presentation questions for staff really I know him I do what a greeting thank you Tyson Waters on behalf of the applicant Frank and Michelle cassella and and I think the staff did a great job with their overview their presentation and we certainly agree with staff's recommendation and would ask that you do the same um as staff mentioned we're in a bit of a constraint here with this old platted rideway the plat was done in 1949 amended a few years later but still provided for that 30-foot rideway then we get into a little bit twist and nuances so in 1967 the county abandoned the Eastern portion of Southeast mango Terrace to kind of eliminate any possible access from that side of the road so fast forward to today and that's why we're here to we're here to ask for the minimum rightaway variance from 50 feet for 30 feet only for that first little chunk of the land um just I guess it's south of lot 17 and 17A once we get into the property that the castellas own it'll open up to the 50 Foot that is typically required um we applied for this application about a year ago and normally I think this is processed pretty quickly and approved by the board we were first to be in front of this board in March of this year um we realized at that point there were some questions and concerns so the application was pulled from the agenda so that we could resubmit with a little bit more information and narrative as to what we're asking for and in the history of the project fast forward again to September of this year we were once again scheduled to be back in front of this board but again we heard some questions and comments and concerns about is it possible to have an alternative access from Candace Avenue instead of Skyline Drive so we went to our neighbors to the East and asked them for an easement to basically recreate the old platted portion that's that's over their lots and then turn South to connect to Candice Avenue and then use that as our point of Ingress and egress um after discussions with them we were told no that they weren't going to grant us an easement so with that answer we're out of options to do anything with this property other than come in Fr this board and ask for this request um another Point that's been discussed is this question of legal access where there's no question that we have legal access again we've got a plattered right away that's been in place for 75 years the question becomes the government regulations will they prevent us and prohibit us from actually developing our lands again we've got eight platted lots that have been in place for 75 years we're at our last Point asking the governmental body to approve this variance so that we can move forward um with this request a no here means these lots are not going to be developable and you know and the ramifications come from that um another question or another issue is the uniqueness of these requests we we do see these requests especially for these old platted developments where applicants and Property Owners come before you to ask for a reduction in the minimum right of way again it's typically down to 30t because for these old plats that was the typical ride of way that was granted we're not the only ones along Skyline that have or would have this 30 foot um ride of way can you know overhead I do not [Music] this so this is this is Skyline Drive as it exists today you can see our properties's right here in yellow um and then up further down there's three streets that already have either a 30 foot rideway or even less than that there's one that only has a 20- foot rideway and it's actually just an easement so out of the 10 streets that that come off this section of Skyline Drive three of the streets have similar requests or similar conditions that we're asking for today so we're not going to be preferential treatment we're not going to be the first and we're not going to be the only one that looks like this and you'll also note and it's kind of hard to see but we've got a number of hundreds of feet be between the other access points on Skyline Drive so it's not like we're asking to add another Spur off Skyline Drive right next to another um spur of it if you will so we understand there's complaints and concerns from the neighbors but again we're here because we're stuck in a situation that based on governmental regulations have prohibited us from developing and building on single family platted lots that are 75 years old it's a common request it's a request you get often and again we'd ask that you listen to your staff and listen to this presentation and grant us the variance requested and with that we're here for any questions that you may have questions I I have a couple questions for staff okay so the policy is for roads that were not constructed in rights of way that were platted prior to 1972 it's been the County's procedure to require the roads to be constructed in accordance with the county standards prior to accepting the roads into the Count's Road inventory that's not what's being proposed here at all why there have any permits been applied for have any plans been applied for no why then why is the recommendation to accept into our inventory contrary to our policy a road that's not constructed it it was it was it was put in there and and you could easily take it out to so that we did not I did not have to bring it back in front the board for acceptance at a later date um it's currently our policy that when we do Road opening permits we issue the permits they build the roads and then when they're all said and done we come back in front of this board twice a year and present and and on a consent agenda for the the board to accept these roads these New Roads into the into the County's inventory but because this has a variance P part to it so we figured we just get it all taken care of once in front of the board was to Grant the variance and then once the road is is permitted and constructed and accepted by the county then it would be automatically processed into the road opening uh inventory that seems contrary to reason but so the board the board could uh simply um allow the variance um it would go through the permit process and then get constructed um and then added to the inventory would be a a a second process before the board um more perfunctory if you will as long as it met the criteria then that usually includes because this was dedicated the public the maintenance responsibility so there's really three pieces of this one is the variance the second piece is the actual permit to construct it which is done at a staff level and then the third piece is adding it to the inventory and it's that adding to the inventory that allows them to um um uh get a single family building permit on the lot a record well it it seems I would feel more comfortable I think if the road was built and rather than accepting it into into the inventory not knowing whether it's going to be standard or substandard or qualify to be um put into the County's inventory I I don't know that I want to take that chance and also I read that the assessed value of the property is zero and therefore no taxes have been assessed is that true I do not know that answer yeah I I think that that may be correct again right now it's an it's an un it has legal access but it's unbuildable until we get this this road issue but again that's just from tax purposes and the valuation but it's not the actual cost of the property or the value of the property for the whole property for the whole property one of those yeah you do I want to free no taxes no tax bill property Mr Donelson is his light hope old L please thank God commissioner Vargas okay um I drove in front of the property I went down Skyline I went North I went South I went North I went South I went on Candace north and south and um I I guess the best way to describe it it's it's a phantom Road it's there but it's not there right now um I know that you've been working the applicants since 20 23 I think um about you know presenting this and getting this through um so this is a right of way I looked back at the records I think it goes platted to 1952 if I'm not mistaken and I think that a lot of the concerns for the residents um are the Steep drop from the road now that could be graded possibly um so it's it's not so precarious you know a drop um they talked about flooding also because I've received it's in my district I received a lot of communication on this um the flooding onto the property and flowing down into the Estuary um speeding along the major Street there I know some stop signs will be put up my understanding is that that a road of this length and width is about $40,000 thereabouts and it's good for about 25 years let me know if I'm on the right path here on the right Road shall I say and um and then Martin County would take it over because it' be in the inventory now the thing is the drop down the drainage the erosion uh Wildlife survey they they several people did mention that they're active toward us Burrows there on the property um Hawks and you know other types of um ecological um nature there um I know that uh zero taxes are being paid zero valuation um is there a site plan at all there there's not because you know right now they they're eight platted Lots yes so that's what we're here today you know relying on whether or not there'll be a site plan or something else or all of the eight Lots will be developed only a few of them what that is you know I I don't know but right now we're here today because step one for us is to get this minimum right of way variance and then step two we'll be working with your engineering department and that's going to address a lot of those questions because we do have to build the road to County standards just like any other Road the difference is instead of 50 ft we do it on 30 feet so we'll have to address the storm water we'll have to address erosion we'll have to address any safety issues all of that's going to be part of our our our permanent process to construct the road and then ultim open it but for us this is step one to make sure that we can proceed and fully evaluate those next steps okay so I understand what you're saying you know if you have the road constructed alls well it meets code and it's it's uh reviewed by by the staff uh the department that handles that um and then let's say you have these problems the flooding and the estuaries affected and there's the wildlife then a road would have been built by this applicant for what reason I I think that's what I'm I'm confused about all of those concerns are are addressed and the staff requires them that they address all those issues at time of Permitting so they have to they have to provide documentation that they are not adversely affecting the the Estuary or the the the runoff or any of that stuff is all done during staff review of the actual permit right right now that's sandy soil so it's erosion is a big issue there commissioner if I could just add one piece to that so for projects that were platted prior to 72 um prior to our Cod and ordinances the plat is the site plan that's it that's all you have is you have a plat and that's all there is our regulations only affect the road so if you have Frontage on a road then it's all by building permit so the building permit I mean staff does look at the building permit in terms of what you know uh you you can do but in terms of drainage a lot of record is to do minimal harm to your neighborhood so we don't have the same storm water requirements on a lot of record that you do for a new subdivision we do have those standards for the road that's opening so they have to provide water quality and things for the road and provide some storm water so it doesn't affect their their neighbors to the degree practicable so it's that's a Nuance of these old platted n whether it was platted in 1920 uh or or 1965 they're the same in the fact that um most of these plants have very little information on what they plan to do with storm water or anything like that so it is limited on what we can do and it's all related really squarely on the road permit so the road we can um make them detain the water from the road and try to carry water uh to a final destination but um the lot itself would just simply be a building permit okay understood now is there encroachment from the property on the south side of mango onto this proposed roadway uh there's a shed there's a portion of driveway does anybody that is that is our belief based on the the aerial photographs we have but we have not received any actual surveys of the RightWay as of yet okay that'll be that the surveys will be required and all that will be done during the permitting process okay where I'm going with this would that widen the road then if they had to remove whatever was encroaching because anything that so so we're only talking about within this platted rideway encroachments I mean each of these lots that where the 30 foot rideo would go between they've got their own setbacks that are I believe they're actually set in the plat and so if they're not complying with those setbacks that's separate apart from you know what's what's allowed to happen within this rideway okay I understand that now what about the impacts of traffic on skyline has this been addressed I mean it the during the permitting process we don't address that because these are lots of record those lots have historic access to Skyline Drive so they their their their traffic generation is basically has been accounted for when the when when the plats were done okay I understand about the abandonment of the other uh right of way towards Candace Avenue I understand it was like the wild west back then I mean this road would go all the way over the railroad tracks all the way over pineapple down mango to Indian River and that's just the way it was and that eastern half of mango is constructed and it's constructed at 30 feet consistent yes it is two cars can carefully I tried that I I did an experiment with another driver and I was fine um but anyway there are eight lots that are platted my understanding is that one of the Lots has to be sacrificial because that is going to be a turnaround like a culde for garbage trucks for emergency vehicles for those that are in the neighborhood to be able to egress from the property is this correct that that I don't know I think that would come again as part of the Road opening permit you know because we are will we we will dedicate additional ride of way so you go 30 feet then you'll open up to 50 feet as required by code what other safety and other features that we'll have to add again that'll be part of whatever Road opening permit process that we'll have to do understand I just I'm I'm speaking more for the owners of the property you need to be aware of that the code is the code is cleared on that that they would need to be required for turnaround and capable for both fire trucks and garbage trucks and these are about 100 by 117 on two and a half acres um now the other thing is there's a maintenance bonds required for the first year for after the road is constructed is that correct and if all not as well you have to correct that septic tanks are in the area which is most of Jensen Beach is that correct also okay and the setback variance is required um have you sent courtesy notices is that required or not required to the adjoining Community Elise Elder Deputy County attorney so we did set notice to some of the adjoining property owners and we put it out in the uh the Stuart news I believe but that was all a courtesy there's no requirement for notice of this hearing we did it as a courtesy and for transparency so the neighbors knew that this hearing was taking place but it was not required all right and it's also my understanding uh that the north and east to the north and to the east of the subject locks is a proposed at one time maybe not development called Pitchford Landings LLC has quite a few llc's attached to it uh but there's no application yet and that's all that Conservatory area that you might see so you're correct there's been no application submitted on the new that Pro proper right we do have an application for Pitchford which is up a little further there's a PUD but not the property ad joining um the property in question right it's to the North and the east of it because I investigated all of this so no questions right now thank you commissioner heatherington oh I'll be brief um I met with the I met with staff I met with the applicant representative and I'm not in favor of the variance at this time okay commissioner campy I'm just curious so you said that you were aware of property that has no assessed value does that mean that it's that the property appraiser considers it unbuildable you misunderstood I'm not aware I said I wish I had one anybody else he has one I I I tend to agree with with commissioner heatherington I don't think this is ready to go I I would certainly much prefer that they just do the conventional apply for a permit build the road you know and then we decide whether or not to accept it into our inventory I think that's that's the way that I think it's normally done it's true commissioner herd that is normally done so this is two parts the first part is from the applicant which is asking for the variance for the 30 foot Road the second part was a request from the county engineer to accept it at a later date into the um inventory so if anything the applicant's request is for the variance and if the variance is not granted then they will not be able to build the lot at all so they can't apply for the road um opening permit without a variance so the whole thing with opening the road and accepting into the inventory was a request from the county engineer so the applicant's request is just for that variance yeah it's it's so what's what's the recommendation is two-part our part is so we can get started the the RightWay minimum withd variance that's part one that's end of the story and that allows us to move to the next part to apply for the Road opening permit to constructed County standards to address all of those issues that come with it part two if we do all that and the county looks at it and goes yes you have constructed this to County standards we're okay part two is except ing it into the the open road inventory whether you it'd be nice to do it today just so again so it's done we're happy with just the variants today that's our only request if the board feels more comfortable making sure that it's done correctly and all that and then coming back at a later date you know that's fine our request and our purpose is to get that Road opening variant or I so minimum width variance so that we can go to the next step because if we don't get that we cannot go to the The Next Step we're done here today commissioner Vargas yes uh I think you had mentioned that there were I'm talking to you sorry I can talk to you from the seat that's fine too um You' mentioned that there were two other roads that were about the same width is that correct according to the map that you put up a few moments ago so there's there's there's three roads um so this is and and again um the the East portion of mango Terrace is also but I'm only focusing right off Skyline Drive so there's about 10 points of Entry onto Skyline three of those which are um Northeast Sunset Drive so that's that long drive right here is a 30 foot rideway and then a portion of Highline Drive which is this red right here is also a 30-ft rideway again added 30ft rway and then um Northeast Meyers Terrace is this portion right here and that's actually a 20 foot easement so it's an easement over everyone's lot to allow for the road to be constructed but again out of the 10 roads that Spur off this portion of skyline three of them have a 30 foot ride of way or less so it's not granting this variance is not going to be an anomaly along Skyline Drive it's just what you end up with when you have these very old platted Lots you just have these natural constraints and that's what we're faced with today and that's why the county has something in their regulations to allow a variance for platted lots that existed prior to 1972 when you changed to the 50 Foot ride of way minimum right and sunset Highline and Meyers when was when were they constructed do you you happen to have that information if I can read it okay um so Sky the plat of skyline Park which are is this one and that one was 1962 I believe it's plat book 2 page 77 and then Meyers minor plat is 1973 okay th this is um quite similar to the very narrow right of ways that in Coconut Grove if any of you are familiar with it and D count very very familiar with all of that and would go ahead and Grant the variances to you know be able to allow entrance to propose neighborhoods and of course everything else would comply because they would open up so it's the same type of project as I see here we still yes that's a very good point we still have to comply with everything else absolutely this just allows our ride of we to be 30 feet instead of 50 feet everything else has to be according to County regulations as we construct the road and the other 70% of the roads are 50 feet I believe so yes ma'am you know Jensen Beach is a different flavor partial to it of course it's my district so we need public comment you is there any public comment back to the board for an decision maybe I can make a comment if you don't mind good afternoon my name is Frank Cella and my wife Michelle and I own that property we've owned it for the last three years um if we had 50 feet we would build the road at 50 ft unfortunately this is the original PLA and it's a little piece of History it shows how things were done way back when and this this road would you please pull over the microphone so we can get you on record sure thanks all right so the access the only access that's available is to Skyline and that small piece from Skyline to the first lot uh we have no more room to flex we have only 30 ft and that's what was PL platted back then as soon as we get to the first lot we will comply with the 50 ft I just wanted to make sure that that was clear I I kind of felt like it was but we would we we would build 50 it's just not there and and so I hope that answers any questions the variance is the very beginning we can't do anything without a road variance it it would just stalemate the project but I'm happy to answer any qu so I'm not a developer so I cannot address drainage but of course we would deal with drainage as required if Lots had to be sacrificed for retention we would and you know that one of the roads is one of the Lots is going to be sacrificed to allow for a culde saac so those things are not optional those are going to go with the site plan we're we're just not there yet because without a variance we have nowhere to go so I hope that helped a little bit maybe not confuse things even more it it say it says in the application that you are going to uh dedicate an additional 10t of ride of away from each of the existing lots of record 9 10 11 12 18 19 20 21 why not dedicate 20 10 on each side it would be 20 so the road goes right through the development it's 30 we pick up 10 on the right and 10 on the left so it would be 50 yeah so you would meet the 50 yes yes requirement on the inside of the little street so I want say donated 10 on each side from Skyline we would do 50 an option yeah good luck with that so I I again I hope that helps and we appreciate your consideration and and approval thanks ah commissioner Vargas the question question your light was on I'm sorry you didn't turn my light no not at this moment I think I've made quite a few comments take some action Mr caps well I'm kind of moved by what the ldr said and how this unique variance provision was put into the ldrs for seemingly this very type scenario um which says we'll read it again the ldr provides that a variance may be granted by the board of County Commissioners for rights of way within plats that were recorded prior to 1972 where the previously acquired right of way is left less than the required minimum right of way so I think the the codes anticipated this problem and I'm also moved by the fact that there are other older streets very close by that have the same 30 foot right of way and uh and also I think failure to Grant the variants would deprive the oant of the ability to develop a lots which is a very severe consequence um so for those reasons I would move staff's approval campy thank you I'd like to speak to the owner of the property just for a couple of questions Sir Mr Waters said that you had tried to negotiate with the folks at the bottom of the hill if you will on Candice we did through Terry McCarthy hard no absolutely no absolutely positively no with zero wiggle room uh see for me it's not so much granting the variance we've done that quite a bit I get the 30 and the 50 it's not your fault no but from my perspective it also opens up a whole brand new culdesac of houses that'll come in between those two houses that historically have never had the map that you showed it showed eight Lots do you have the O the little red outline do you own the others as well we own just the eight just the eight who owns below you and then what's the story with that Manhattan LLC owns that to the East and all the property to the north uh because you know we're also opening up a whole opportunity here now but to your point commissioner caps this point I see that we would somehow see the 30 from 30 to 50 I've seen us do that before to me it's that we're opening up a whole new situation but it is your property there were some people that spoke here this morning uh about their concerns existing neighbors I think to commissioner herd's point I get what Mr grisela was trying to do about separating it but with if there was no no concern from existing neighbors it was not a big deal putting them two together and just trying to do that makes sense but now that there is concern uh I think what we should do is separate them out the way that was one of the options and I would be in favor of granting you your variance from 30 to 50 I think especially what Mr Waters showed that it's not like that would be the only situation like that in the entire neighborhood there's plenty other examples of that um I'm just trying in my mind to think about future consequences of of our actions to the existing neighbors but you do own those are legitimate plotted buildable lots that the folks that bought along Skyline whether it was yesterday or 50 years ago should have understood that there were buildable Lots behind them um um second commissioner which I would tell you based on your presentation and your what's your name again Waters um I was a no coming in on this and you've changed my mind so I will second commissioner Cap's motion thank you except that the last variance was granted in over 50 years ago I wasn't around then but I can imagine that they no there's been variances granted out in Palm City Farms no I'm talking about this neighborhood oh okay apparently one was granted in 62 and the next one was granted in 72 or 75 I remember the 75 yeah there was um as I said Jensen Beach is unique it is and so it's not an everyday thing we don't take this lightly um but think about this those neighbors have enjoyed a wide open view for all those years it's not theirs and then you come along so um I definitely would approve of this variance a motion to approve oh you made it are you seconding uh um commissioner can't be but I definitely would approve oh progress yep there's a motion by commissioner cap seconded by commissioner campy all those in favor I opposed opposed are you opposing yeah that motion passes prick 3 to2 with Commissioners who the other two who's the other one heatherington with heatherington and her I said I wasn't in favor of the variance thank you thanks thank you for your time today let them eat cake got one out the sent the chair one out of two are we ready for B and C one oh no that was a telephone I saved those people I feel like benevolent isent this is community redevelopment agency board member appointments oh and shair and vice chair designations too I haven't received commissioner caps and vargas's forms happening new kids okay um I I do want to make a statement here um this is our second meeting um so we're not be rush rush on this on any of the appointments whatsoever um I I did have a discussion um with a staff member and this is not going to affect the oper operations of the board at all uh if we can put this off until January um and at that point I would have had time to meet and interview the the proposed I think this is extremely important uh Community Development uh Redevelopment agency board members they have to line with what my beliefs are and and what is best for my district so that's my statement and I'm going to stick by it is there any urgency Miss Gordon can we post this can we continue this until as far as I know the next community redevelopment meeting is January 27 so if you if you do it on the 14th that's fine yes are we okay with that you're abandoned can we can we continue the appointment of the CRA members until January so that commissioner Vargas can uh better prepare to vote Yes are you this seems to say also appointing the chair and vice chair as well so each yeah you're on how do I do that it's on you're on every year at this time um hi Susan corz office of Community Development every year at this same time we look at any CRA members that perhaps their terms are expiring which is what's happening this year or any other changes like the at large position which is also happening this year um and following the procedure that is set up via ordinance people apply for those positions and then the board approves the appointment of those folks so it isn't that there'll be different folks next month um there'll be probably the same uh and the applicants generally the incumbents generally do re apply and then our at large position is a position that's every 2 years and that we like that to rotate between C so that different cras get representation that way understood commissioner Vargas would just like the ability to have some more time to uh evaluate the yes there's no legal reason why you couldn't wait impede the C it won't it won't have any um there's no problem with our next meeting's no adverse absolutely I haven't even met with the CRA here in the building so hi hi you're scheduled but I haven't met with you yet thank you okay so we'll continue the appointments to the CRA and including the designation of chair and vice chair until uh January 14 January 14th okay you need a motion for that to continue it I'll move that we continue January 14th second one to um January 14th second there's a motion by commissioner heatherington seconded by commissioner caps all those in favor I I opposed Saving Pass is unanimously all right so next we go to uh Department one good afternoon Commissioners Stephanie merly director of The Office of Management and budget here to present to you seven items on OMB today the first item is a permission to apply for the 2025 Transportation Alternative stide Program um for the Fisherman Cove sidewalk project this is for um an application for a six-foot sidewalk to connect the inner streets of Fisherman's Co it'll serve as a connection to the existing sidewalk on South canner highway to provide safe ADA Compliant access for pedestrians and other non- drivers um we are requesting a grant amount of $1.3 million um and a $200,000 match is is required to be funded with the FY 29 CIP project budget in roads no the second item is a permission to apply for the fy2 Florida safe routes to school infrastructure Grant through the Florida Department of Transportation fdot for the Northeast South Street sidewalk project um this is for a proposed new s six foot sidewalk on Northeast South Street that will connect Northeast Savannah Road to the entrance of Jensen Beach Elementary School to enable an encourage children including those with disabilities to walk and bicycle to school safely um the requested Grant award is for 1, 18399 something2 and there is no cash match required item number three is a permission to accept the State of Florida FTE P um grant for cyp Cypress Creek flood plane restoration project our environmental services division is requesting the acceptance of $750,000 to construct a weird type water control structure to rehydrate the flood plane of Cypress Creek um there is no cash match required and this is a project that is contained within the ecosystem Capital Improvement plan item number four is a permission to accept the public transportation Grant agreement for fy2 for the public transit block grant program we are requesting um the acceptance of $392,900 to provide operating assistance for the Martin County uh Marty in the urbanized area as well as the Ada complimentary Services a match of the same amount is required and is already budgeted within the fy2 transit operating budget item number five is um from the supervisor of elections office it's a permission to accept the Florida Department of um help American vote act election security enhancement Grant this is a grant award in the amount of $14 14,926 for the funding of election security enhancement and there's no cash match required item number six is a permission to accept the radiological emergency preparedness or the rep agreement um our fire rescue department is requesting um the this recurrent Grant to fund our nuclear planning Division and our Emergency Management division in the amount of $597,000 for the salaries planning equipment and training to enhance the radiological Emergency Management Programs ability to respond and recover from any radiological emergency um this is a grant we've gotten for a couple decades and there is no cash match required and our last item was a request from the board um to discuss the possibility of a full-time employee or FTE position for the human services department for the veteran services division um Michelle Miller's here if you would like to speak but this is due to an increase in services that are needed for our veterans here um so we're requesting the addition of one position and a budget transfer from reserves to fund this new position and the required equipment in order to get this position in place and that is all I have today any questions for staff commissioner heatherington I will move um staff's recommendation for approval for all the items I second any further discussion there's a motion by commissioner heatherington seconded by commissioner Vargas all in favor I I opposed that motion passes unanimously thank you thank you next contracts that meet threshold for board approval a million dollarss or greater Miss Brotherton let get where we need to go here I have heard before that you're from Palm City I am from Palm City yes absolutely good afternoon commissioner Christy Brotherton Chief procurement officer um I have five items for your consideration today and the first item is the Construction contract for the Evergreen Country Club Windstone subdivision water main extension project uh you heard this item previously under ph1 so this is the Construction contract award and staff is recommending that the board award the contract to the lowest responsive and responsible bidder which is Jamie underground in the amount of4 million $421,500 and move that the board authorized the County administrator or designate to execute all documents related to this request uh the next item is is a contract for the tropical Farms Water Treatment Plant expansion this is for Engineering Services and staff is recommending that the board award the contract to kimley Horn and Associates in the amount of 2,462 $179 49 and move that the board authorize the County administrator or designate to execute all documents related to this request uh the next contract for your approval is professional services for the M MacArthur Boulevard Beach and dun project and staff is recommending that the board award the contract to tailor Engineering in the amount of 1,563 6129 and move that the board authorize the County administrator or designate to execute all documents related to this request and next we have a contract award for Professional Services for the Hutchin and Island Shore protection project and staff is recommending that the board award the contract to tailor Engineering in the amount of 3,474 3740 and move that the board authorize the County administrator or designate to execute all documents related to this request and last but not least we have the professional Engineering Services related to solid waste and landfill contract uh this contract has a maximum not to exceed value of $3,500,000 with a maximum not to exceed term of five years and staff is recommending that the board award the contract to two vendors uh the first one is CDM Smith and the second vendor is Jones edmin and Associates and move that the board authorize the County administrator or designate to execute all documents related to this request and that concludes this item questions for Miss Brotherton can you tell us a little bit about your procurement procedures and what leads you to recommend a particular vendor so um all of these contracts were formally bid um the first one was is a Construction contract so we follow the RFB process which is based strictly on price so it's request for bid um we go out to bid we evaluate the bids for responsiveness and responsibility meaning that they're properly licensed they have the required um experi experience and whatnot that there's no bid irregularities that would kick their bids out um Jamie underground was the lowest responsive responsible bidder so they were recommended for contract award um the other four contracts these are all rfqs so request for qualification contracts and those are all governed under the Consultants competitive negotiation act so these are anything that have to do with professional engineering surveying um Landscape Architects um things of that nature so we follow a two-step process per statute so um once we get our proposals in it's based on qualifications only there's no price that's provided in this process um the first step is to short list and as you see in the agenda items we went out to bid twice for all four of these items because CCNA Florida statute requires us to short list no fewer than three firms um we were not successful in getting three submittals for any of those contracts and what we've been doing is if we go out the first time we receive less than three we cancel the solicitation we read vertise um and that's after we review the solicitations to make sure there's nothing in there that's unduly restrictive um because we're trying to get more interests we want people to bid on our contracts obviously um unfortunately when we survey a lot of these firms they either don't meet the minimum qualification they don't have the proper licensing um or their schedules just don't allow them to commit to contracts sometimes that span over multiple years so um when we go back out to bid for the second time if we receive less than three bids we evaluate it um one of the projects we only received one response and our purchasing manual allows for us to enter into negotiations um assuming that they are responsive and and qualified um the other contracts where we receive received um only two responses we we went through the selection committee process so that the first one was to short list then the second meeting is to do interviews or presentations and then the committee will score and make a recommendation of award and the committee's staff yes the committee staff sometimes we do have um subject matter experts that are outside of the county um that we'll see but most of the selection committees are comprised of five members so so four of them were our Q's correct and what was the name of that other one the first one RFB is a request for bid and that's B that's awarded solely on price and and on price and Commissioners on the RFQ some of those that we don't receive that many bids is uh are typically more specialty type contracts and given the amount of work in the State of Florida right now people are very busy and the um uh the the the market for um special the uh Engineers surveyors whatever is tight and so they're busy and so you just don't have that much selection you know so that's what it comes down to some of those projects where we've had to rebid several times or re read vertise is because um there's just not that many um um businesses in for instance like the coastal Arena and they're all they're all busy all over the state dealing with other damages and and so we're um we're left with who we've been working with and um I just want to point out also when we receive few bids or we rebid we will reach out to anybody that downloaded the solicitation and request that they fill out a statement of no bid to try to learn why they downloaded the solicitation but didn't submit a bid so it gives us some feedback um staff's really good about doing their research um we tweak things even before we put things out on the streets um but again like Mr Donaldson said you know we're we're dealing with very slim pickings sometimes because there's a lot of work and people just can't commit to the to the schedules so but the good news is the people that you have selected are world class AB all of these names are industry leaders so it's not like you're digging through the bottom no absolutely these are the best that you could get and they're vetted we have a very involved procurement process as far as when we get sub mitts in they're looked at multiple times over and over we have checklists so um we do have very good vendors that are doing work for us so commissioner heatherington that was a light for a motion to accept staff's recommendation for approval okay commissioner Vargas yes uh just want to get clarification what about those businesses that are here in Martin County and they may be small businesses they cannot afford the bond they don't have the insurance all of that but they're able to provide a service or a product as a subcontractor to a larger entity so for these particular projects um like Mr Donaldson had mentioned they're very involved there's a lot of experience that's required um a lot of those companies will subcontract their work to local firms um we always encourage that especially the dbe MBE s are minority small business companies um there are some contracts that actually require that Florida statute requires um and encourages use of those types of firms um but if they are grant-funded in any way we cannot force local preferences or things of that nature but we're always encouraging our businesses that are not able to be the primes to always reach out um we do have some that reach out for plan holder list for the companies that do download our solicitations to try to link up to provide subcontracted services to those vendors so does that answer yep it does okay thank you is there a second may I just make one other point for my new colleague in years past when we talked about having local ordinances which makes perfect sense to try to support our local businesses the much larger counties to the North and South start to think about doing the same thing and then exclude our local businesses from doing business in Palm Beach or St Lucy County so for whatever they could potentially gain by being the local for Martin County they give up that if St Lucy and Palm Beach or okao not so much okobi but the other two big ones did the same thing so our local businesses asked us not to do that yeah we do have a local vendor preference um again we cannot enact that if it's any type of grant funding um we're prohibited from doing that and we do have an interlocal process that um I believe St Lucy county is the only one that we participate with um right now but other counties can choose to you know honor the local vendor preference but St louisy is the only one that has taken that to account and if we ever have that that'll be noted in the G items so thank you commissioner heatherington my light was just to to mention the local vendor preference okay is there a second I second okay I forgot who was it heatherington was the there's a motion by commissioner heatherington seconded by commissioner Vargas all those in favor I I opposed to that motion passes unanimously thank you for that wonderful explanation he any time that's what I'm here for okay we did that uh on to Department 4 request to discuss the text Amendment to the comprehensive growth management plan revising the rural lifestyle future land use designation was requested by commissioner herd notf familiar Herman woman afternoon good afternoon members of the board uh my name is Clyde Duan I'm a comprehensive planning administrator um there's a summary of the rural lifestyle feature land use designation here in the background uh this was requested by commissioner herd to uh bring this item forward our motion is to move that the board adopt the attached resolution to initiate a text amendment to policy 4.13a 18 which is the citation for the rural lifestyle future land use designation uh if the board initiates the attached resolution uh staff will Begin work on uh proposed text changes uh we'll present it to the local planning agency it'll then be presented to brought to the board for a transmittal hearing and then uh off to the state and back for and for a final adoption hearing as are all of our text amendments go go through the three hearing process and along the way um we would take of course public comment and recommend conditions from the local planning agency and any direction that the board wants to uh make on at the transmittal hearing for instance and of course the board would also have final decision at the adoption hearing so there would be ample opportunity to give staff Direction on proposed changes to the rural lifestyle future land use text the alternative recommendation listed here in this agenda item is to uh provide staff with further Direction on other proposed changes to the comprehensive growth management plan and that's all I have uh be happy to answer any questions that I can Mr Johnson I just wanted to emphasize I think the commissioner heard had stated in the last meeting that this text Amendment initially focuses on the um the relationship of uh rural lifestyle to the um freestanding freestanding urban service foundary that's it all right I need to thank you for getting out and that's so that's the principal change that is uh is is what we're starting with okay I I just wanted to hit some that that is certainly the the uh uh top priority for me is to eliminate using the freestanding urban service districts uh for the rural lifestyle also I looked through the the uh rural lifestyle and found some other things that are Troublesome and that is the first one is is in pent 10 which is the accessory DW dwelling units on the lot um shall not count as a separate unit for the purpose of density calculations um and that's talking about let's see and golf Cottages also shall not right that's correct um I would like to to examine whether or not they can be counted I also would like to examine uh removing the second urban service boundary and in 11 C it says where the extension of Wastewater Utility Services not cost Fe feasible um enhanced nutrient reducing on-site sewage treatment Disposal Systems may be used are those like package plants uh no that's a new uh requirement in Florida statute um there are certain portions of Martin County where septic systems will no longer be allowed and that this enhanced Wastewater treatment systems will have to be used commissioner I think um under the uh concept of those units they would actually be operated by your utility um but they are an onsite I think they're permitted as an on-site wi water treatment facility but they're small so it is it's not a package plant but it's still a small unit processing that but instead of having the the HOA or the development run the facility under the state statute believe it requires the utility to operate it okay um and I'm in number pen 12 and that's talking about an applicant for PUD shall plan an appropriately fund public facilities consistent with policy 14.1 B2 uh which requires that future development shall pay for the full cost of the Capital Improvements necessary to to address the impacts of such development we saw this morning that they don't begin to cover the costs of full of the development they don't begin to pay for themselves so now we're having to to consider uh building uh fire stations uh all over three new fire stations in Western Martin County in order to accommodate the capacity needs of these developments so at a minimum those there have to be in these puds Provisions for provision of these public these Public Utilities these Public Services I mean there's at a minimum the Pud zoning agreement shall require the following public benefits they're they're they're not they're completely uh nonspecific you know if we're going to get serious about them providing uh development paying for itself then let's put it in the definitions and also in 15 it says if approval of a final sight plan does does not occur within 5 years the board of County Commissioners May initiate Amendment to the uh future land use map to cause the property to revert to its prior future land use designation I suggest that you be shall those are some of the preliminary changes I would like to see in the rural lifestyle and I don't know if this is another request to to amend the the comp plan but I would like like to see all freestanding urban service B boundaries eliminated and existing ones can no longer be expanded we would need to do another resolution to to bring that back okay we used to allow package plants until we finally recognized that they were harming us more than helping us so it's I think we need to come to the realization that freestanding urban service boundaries are an Abomination they prevent planning they prevent provision of services commissioner campy thank you it is December it's nearly Christmas we should be giving our lists um just for clarification sake we're not building three new fire stations we are relocating potentially relocating one building one and expanding the one in Indiantown but near the you know there I voted no on the rural lifestyle so a lot of her changes I get however the folks that have taken advantage of opportunities that are ongoing they are grandfathered in or they're going to are we're going to open ourselves up to uh Wrath of lawsuits where law where lawsuit averse so that being said if someone's already gotten started yes so if someone already has granted a rural life style future land use um designation they would get to keep what they have we could get lawsuits Under The Bert J Harris for someone who owns an existing piece of property or just purchased a piece of property and was planning to do rural lifestyle and then we change it that's a possibility that can't be ruled out so those are the two risks I that's I haven't heard of any yeah no I don't know of any either but I'm just saying that's a possibility for lawsuits if you're asking hear you um and as Mr Duan you had said originally my colleague she's more than entitled to bring forward everything that she would like to but there will be the process LPA transmittal hearing come back from hearing so because I don't mind that she's moving forward very quickly with her ideas today but whether you're on one side of the aisle or the other should still be the appropriate full vetting process for the public to participate whether they think these ideas are terrific or they they think these ideas are terrible we're going to do that correct absolutely and as a reassurance to the people that have already begun these projects we're not going to launch into a whole trying to pull the rug out from the existing projects that are already in the works most of if not all everything the commissioner herd is talking about is Forward Thinking forward looking that's my understanding and and the specifics can be dealt with in the proposed text amendments okay well I mean just for our new colleagues and for commissioner heatherington and I this is one set of suggestions coming from commissioner herd that I want everyone to understand what's taking place here that we're asking staff basically we're doing a county initiated comprehensive plan changes there's a lot of Staff time and effort and money for the staff time so let's all make sure we're understanding what commissioner herd is asking for and that we agree because if we start doing this now I don't want to be here in the spring and be like hey I got a whole another series of comprehensive plan changes that the staff or in this particular case a commissioner could be me next time I'm not saying it's won't be I'm just saying that with that in mind we're launching into individual commissioner initiation of comprehensive plan changes requesting staff who has basically a full of work to take on an additional plate of work may be perfectly acceptable I just want to be clear that we're having like a very quick kind of casual conversation on a pretty big thing I might I practically agree with most of the issues that she brought up but it's it's big comprehensive plan changes used to be pretty significant now all of a sudden we're just doing them out well we've initiated our oh I get it but I mean this just seems to be sort of casual it's pretty big deal it should be big deal or casual big deal that's what I'm saying it's a big deal just popping them out there one after the other okay that's all I have commissioner heatherington when um I just want to clarify when you used the language you were going to remove you you desired to remove freestanding urban service boundary I I understood that as uh you wanted to remove the applicability of Royal lifestyle next to okay yes yes okay I just want to make sure that that was the intent and a separate one is to no longer allow freestanding Urban Services boundaries anywhere so for in so you met both that'll be a separate one okay yeah one on a different date or you going to make a next one next no they'll have to bring bring back a resolution for that one too okay that that was a good clarification because can you give me a for instance about what freestanding for the next resolution of freestanding uh elimination of a freestanding urban service pound you're talking agtech it's existing okay so you're talking about making new ones no new ones okay no new ones and no expansion of existing ones so the size that a tech the boundaries of a Tec freestanding never never will will increase um we'll wait until that one comes up okay commissioner Vargas yes um I I do agree that this is a huge decision issue I see your points uh however um the more that we think about changing the comp plan or tweaking it additions subtractions that may bring more novel ideas especially from those that are new on this board and I would like to be given the opportunity after more thorough studying to be able to approach the board and of course the department to be able to take this into consideration I think that's viable as you would in a company well just remember you're not allowed to approach us individually outside of this I I understand that that's no I'm talking about the board here I came from Corporate America it's completely a weird kind of anomaly so did I we're not allowed to speak to each other I understand that which would sometimes make I understand that commissioner I understand that I'm talking about this board on the dice that's what I'm talking about but of course we're we're thinking people and we bring to the table uh different ideas and uh corporate is totally different we're talking about governmental I was at the ethics training this weekend also so I'm I'm very clear on that and some of the licenses I hold are very strict in so far as uh eth ethical behavior um but having said that um is this something that we can do we can bring forth more ideas is is this living or is this something that's stagnant Mr Donaldson um board initiated comprehensive plan amendments are um are usually not numerous I will say they they come up um uh on occasion uh usually um for a specific purpose as was brought up today um uh we might do it for property we own too we may acquire environmental land and we would do a a staff sponsored comprehensive land amendment to change whatever it is to conservation or or that type of thing so um so I'd only say that uh it is not something we schedule as a routine basis to say let's talk about the comp plan and its amendments it's it's usually either driven by um uh you know in this case a commissioner bringing up an issue um or the community might bring up something to us um so no it's uh I would say that it if you're the board is looking at you know a strategic priority in terms of what we're doing with uh comprehensive plan changes the ear obviously is something that brings up a forced look at the comp plan and it course that's coming back to us so you'll have a chance to look at those ear-based amendments and I'm sure they'll be discussion at those of whether or not all of those will be implemented or not um and um and so during that time I would say there's an opportunity for you to to look at what is required by the state and those items that we put up so I would I would suggest that the board collectively if you want to consider looking at the comp plan as a board you should consider that more as a strategic objective as opposed to an ad hoc presentation okay so you mean strategic in the sense that it is planned it's already provided for the time rather than let's just discuss this on the moment I know this is a listed agenda item is that yes that that would be my suggestion but it is still your alls you still all have a have a voice and can bring anything up as you as you decide at any time commissioner caps so the issue before us here at this moment in time is just to seek to further amend the text of the rural lifestyle future land use designation you know all of the particulars uh that have been enumerated will be vetted and discussed thoroughly by us at a later time but right now we're just proposing to further amend the text correct right and staff will go through the um points that commissioner herd brought up and and make proposed changes and bring those back to the board as part of our staff analysis yes so I would make that motion what what's the motion to further amend the text of rural lifestyle future land use designation according to the resolution second and does that include the the comments made by commissioner Herd on the specifics that she referenced well as I understand it that that's I think the purpose of our discussion here is to make sure that we have plenty of time to to talk about these items that's F that's fine so uh because those are big discussions thank you I like a lot of the ideas presented but you know I think we ought to have a lot of talk about that thank you later on and I second that motion there's a motion by commissioner cap seconded by commissioner Vargas all those yes clarifying so the motion is that you're taking all the feedback today and staff is going to analyze it and bring back some proposed changes okay good there's a motion and a second all those in favor I I I opposed that motion passes unanimously thank you members of the board thank you thank you and Commissioners the ear amendments will be coming back to this board for final adoption or not um sometime in the first of the year right probably in February or March okay sorry so we'll have lots of time to evaluate the proposed changes that were made on October 22nd all right now we are to Department six small cell Wireless update yeah good afternoon uh Matt Hammond I have the privilege of serving as assistant County engineer uh bringing before you an item that was uh requested uh two meetings ago uh the topic of 5G uh garnered a lot of attention back in 2019 when the State of Florida passed um some significant preemptions uh removing a lot of the control of uh installation of 5G infrastructure rure from cities and counties um I did have the opportunity to to meet with the um the residents on either side of the the poll that did come up uh last month and we're in question um and uh make sure they were aware of the topic that was coming up today as well as talk through the uh information that is being presented so uh 5G uh stands for fifth generation Wireless technology uh Nationwide deployment began in Earnest in 2019 uh 5G operates on higher frequencies over a broader range than previous cellular networks um for example 4G generally operates on 6 gigahertz uh and less whereas 5G operates on that end up to 40 GHz and higher um with that comes higher Wireless speeds capacity um reliability and opens up expanded connected Services um and to put that a little bit in perspective um or I guess a good an analogy that is uh for those of us that remember radio uh the difference between am and FM um and 4G where 4G service can serve thousands of devices per square mile 5G is in the millions per square mile with that different range of frequencies comes a uh different type of network to serve it um 5G is delivered on a network of small Wireless communication uh infrastructure also called small cell Wireless uh which means lots of smaller poles as opposed to fewer larger poles uh there's three main types of uh 5G or small saw Wireless installations that you'll see around uh one is collocation on an existing pole uh another one would be collocation on an overhead wire uh and the third which is be the most common would be um the installation of a of a new pole uh the the top photo that you see there on the slide um that's actually the first um small cell Wireless installation that came through as permitting um when that first came around in Martin County about 5 years ago when this first came around um the wireless industry in in partnership with the federal and state uh governments were very proactive in Paving the way for for these installations um stripping a lot of the control over um five installations from uh cities and counties primarily through FCC order 18233 uh as well as fla statute 337 401 um 7 which is also called the advanced Wireless infrastructure deployment act uh both of those both of those the order and the statute uh have been challenged by entities such as the Florida leag of cities um as well as uh different cities within the state um and they were unsuccessful in that um and they were very specific uh particularly the advanced Wireless infrastructure deployment Act is very specific um and written to ensure that small saw Wireless facilities are passed quickly and as frictionlessly um as possible by Wireless providers and their uh and their installers with that there's a long and specific list of things that cities in Florida um cannot do when it comes to to Wireless installations uh and these things apply so long as the wireless provider is installing infrastructure that fits within the specific box of of what's in the act a pole no larger than No taller than 50 ft the antennas are no long no larger than 6 cubic feet uh the antennas are installed no higher than 10 ft above the pole uh when they stay within that uh there's a there's a fairly long list of um protections that they that they get to here uh some of these are cities and counties are not able to deny a permit that meets uh that meets the state statutes uh they're not able to delay a permit uh both the FCC order and Florida statute have um shot clocks or timelines that uh these have to be turned around in um they're not able to dictate utility or pole locations uh or regulate based on the effects of radio frequency emissions uh cities and counties can't prevent the collocation of antennas on existing poles um they're not able to require direct or indirect uh notification of the installations um to the public cannot require antennas be grouped onto a single pole uh or grouping of uh antennas uh or limit the size of poles or antennas Beyond what's what's specifically spelled out in Florida statute um or cannot require unrelated work outside of the spe what's specifically required for the installations um or even require a pre-application meeting um so I guess that leads to what what can we do what what are what is available to to to cities and counties on these um primarily uh it's based on requiring compliance with basic safety requirements um safe line of sites and intersections uh safe clear zones away from travel Lanes compliance with the American Disabilities Act uh there's also language in there for adopting limited design standards um based on Aesthetics and and other items with with some very tight boxes around that as a county when this uh when this topic emerged uh was an emerging topic about five years ago um Public Works and legal staff reviewed the uh um the act that was coming out um and the implications of that uh and what was what was settled down was found was that the existing RightWay use permit process uh was the um was the best way to move forward with uh with permitting these these installations within specifically within rways uh with the limited Authority that is available to the county uh that RightWay use permit process uh is the same process that's that's used for all uh RightWay use requests um the FL statute uh the ACT specifically in a number of places emphasizes uh treating these as non-discriminatory um and so this this does that um the timelines the shot clocks that were provided in there are what we hold ourselves to already fell within those um those shot clock uh those time frame requirements um and so we have a um within the public works department we have a very good team that looks at those and reviews these installations uh based on those safety requirements as well as things like maintenance of traffic um if uh if there vehicle or pedestrian uh impacts that are going to be there um and when there is there are public notifications um that are provided out in accordance with the the county public notification policy uh and to date uh where we stand right now um since this came out about 5 years ago the 5G installations there's been about 40 permits that have come through uh for infrastructure within County uh within County rways are about about N9 a year have come through so uh with that I know um Mr Shmo uh has been very patiently uh waiting and is here um to address the board um appreciate the time to be able to to present this information to you and staff is here and happy to answer any questions welcome Mr Sho please come forward after he's done great presentation thank you thank you for for that uh welcome to the board U uh thank you again for allowing me to address the board today I want to express my gratitude on your decision to temporarily halt the construction of the 5G cell tower in front of my home uh the electronics have not yet been installed uh and I'm just curious if anyone has had the chance just to visit the street and see it um U and if I have time at the end I I just want to clarify a a misstatement that I made last time I was here but since our last meeting I reached out to our governor's office the FCC the Florida's Attorney General's office and the Department of Agriculture and unfortunately each agency deflected responsibility to one another uh and to you and uh the F FCC confirmed that they license Wireless providers but have no control over Tower placement while the Attorney General's office suggested filing complaints with various agencies and uh we unfortunately don't have any any new facts that that that we can present today but no Authority that we can tell can tell these wireless companies what is off limits with the rways uh they they could uh they could place a Tower every 50 ft uh if they wanted to without restrictions uh at this point we're unsure if anyone can help since the state and FCC have neutered the County's ability and authority to limit Wireless providers Ambitions uh this leaves our County residents and my family in a difficult position now our concern is is one just impact on our property values uh we reached out to eight County realators to get an appraisal on our home with this new cell tower in place all realators have confirmed that our home would be um would be harder to sell at the original value um prior to the installation of the tower there studies consistently show property values near cell towers drop 7 to 15% uh in our case it could be up to 20% because of the height and there's no other uh structures around it no trees covering it the financial loss from this Tower's placement is a significant burden to me and my neighbors um and to move forward constructively we propose the following uh one relocation um the neighbors are willing to to help fund the relocation of this Tower to one of the alternative sites suggested by the perate department to contact AT&T again with more pressure from Congressman the the governor and Commissioners to relocate it three aesthetic modifications if relocation isn't possible uh AT&T we would like them to improve the tower's appearance um to blend in with the surroundings uh use designs like a tree disguise or neutral colors and fix the 50ft tall 17in wide uh concrete tow appearance uh it's it's like the Washington Monument right right in my yard uh we and and we recommend adopting new ordinances and new codes that specify requirements for certain aesthetic design standards for cell towers to preserve County character and in in wrapping up we I I urge the Commissioners to to continue to advocate for a resolution and not give up today U more of these towers are being installed in neighborhoods uh next to homes and there's really no end in sight um since there's no action or vote proposed today um I just wondering what's what's our next step here and where we can where can we move forward and finally I just want to thank Matt Hammond and his engineering and permitting team for their outstanding effort to help relocate this Tower they called AT&T they asked them to remove it relocate it they proposed new locations and I just really thank you for for going above and beyond for that um while this has been challenging we remain op optimistic that we can resolve this issue in a way that protects our homes our values in our community um and just to go back to um to fix a statement I made last time I was here um I stated that um from a document we received that there was a 155 ft permit um given this was this was um a misunderstanding uh this was fdot traffic blocking requirement for the installation so it's not going to be 155 ft Tower they they came and measured it's it's under 50 ft it's actually 47 ft and so inches tall but so I just wanted to apologize for that misstatement and um thank you for your time and and action and attention thank you thank you commissioner campy Mr Sho thank you very much last time you were here I remember that you presented information in such a really well done professional manner and you've done it again thank you uh this makes it much easier for us to sort of comprehend is this a picture of your yard that's my house can you put this on the Dock Cam so people at home can see what we're talking about please well let me uh just take my my name off that and people want to call you yeah they want to come by and see you first off you know from our point of view Mr Hammond first thank you for your efforts and I appreciate your helping when we had heard this the last time it's just one of those things you know everyone talks about preemption and the state taking charge of local issues to me this is a glaring one now we have had cell phone issues as long as I've been sitting up here um down in the little Club down in taquesta that was a huge issue and that was not nearly as terrible as this one it was tucked into some trees they tried to make it look like a tree um it was much taller than everything around it but at least there was things around it and we really worked and then there's been others up at the VFW Hall in Jensen and it was back and forth on their property there's one there it's not as large as it used to be but there's one on on Church property in Palm City right the cross the cross which I thought was clever uh because it was on Church property and um but if you look at the picture here this is like an an affront to the site selection process it's literally right in the center of the sidewalk so if there's ADA Compliant issues I if I'm in a wheelchair or Ada I don't see putting it directly is this the actual picture I see is our our staff agree that this is exactly what it is it it is at the moment uh before it's closed out and and cleared out the sidewalk is required to be meandered around it okay so but I mean that's just where they decided to put in the meantime so you're going to have to at whose expense ours we're going to have to redesign and recreate the sidewalk no we're working with AT&T that's that's their something their footing so I I appreciate when you showed the whole list of things that we can't do and you said that there was a couple that we could uh I would make a motion that we have our chair send a letter to I get the the governor and the rest of it but to AT&T and to the appropriate departments and CC commission representative oberdorf representative Snyder Senator Harold Congressman Mast because you've been very very professional and actually very accommodating in your frustration and if any one of us if this was was happening in front of any of our homes we'd be pulling our hair out and I I took a note that said 5G you said 4G was hundreds of thousands of people within a per square mile and 5G can can service millions of people per square mile I don't understand why to me this is like AT&T almost allegedly thinking we just put it wherever we want they could no one AT&T is this an exclusively an AT&T poll were they're the ones that made this determination they're the particular applicant for okay they didn't even think and you guys gave suggestions this is like let's see where's the most offensive place we could put this that's what this looks like it doesn't look like anyone took a minute to think about where could we put this 150 ft somewhere else that it didn't have to be right there now when I had my conversation with staff they said and I and I'm not saying that staff is part of this I'm sure staff is frustrated like we're frustrated like you're not as much as you but we're we we feel you this was because it was the furthest away from Individual houses but that's not fair to them this is their property can you imagine you purchased the biggest investment you're going to make in your entire life you're going to spend as much money on one thing as you possibly could it's your home and then one day some guys at a corporate ation decided we're going to put this out in front of your house there's nothing you can do about it there's nothing the local government can do about it and basically just tough luck I one it it in insults me personally on your behalf and I can't imagine this is as bad as it could be and I think that we continue to try I don't know maybe we're going to be Mana lancha but um I think we have to try this is the worst and if you have contact information uh for the folks that you're dealing with at AT&T um send it to my office I'd at least like to share my thoughts with them personally could paint it Disney green or you know you could put lights on it make it a Christmas tree and then you could put Cupids on it make it Valentine's Day and you could put a flag on it make it Fourth of July the county want it removed or maybe and I mean I don't mean to kid or make jokes because I get it this I I'm not an appraisal expert or a real estate agent I cannot imagine that that doesn't hurt the value of your home it will commissioner hington I agree with all that you just said and I would like to suggest to you that our legislative delegation meeting is January 9th at Indian River State College where both of our Representatives our state senator and I believe I'm not completely sure but you can sign up you have to sign up ahead of time but I believe that you can um speak on an item so that is January 9th 20 this 2025 9 to 12 at in River State College and think that might be a great place to address these with some of the State Legislative delegation as well great thank you commissioner caps yes uh you mentioned something about reaching out about alternative sites to AT&T did you did I hear that right that's correct yeah what was their response there on that issue uh yeah so the conversations which which were were positive in nature uh it we'll say AT&T agreed to pause any work until this meeting was held and and out of respect for the process um but the feedback that as part of those conversations were were related to the coverage uh the cell coverage that they were able to get there versus other locations so they feel like this spot is uniquely good I mean then they really want it here and they're rather inflexible at this point based on the conversations at this point you know how often do they have them in residential neighborhoods like this uh it seems that many sail towers and South County down where I live are on Commercial properties um and not so much in residential neighborhoods like this is this common it's fairly common uh within Martin County within not just Martin County but within public rights of way right right I have them in my neighborhood M yeah but not like right out like in your not in front of my house you could Mount your mailbox to this thinking about it um I like the concept of speaking at the legislative but for your specific issue I think you need to bring it much closer to home I think it's a because you're not looking to change the whole system you're looking to change this one particular pole location willing to do anything yeah I'm just saying that the changing the whole system our Representatives at the legislative at the state level are terrific but this is a big ask I'm thinking that if we have a conversation with AT&T that just to give you some type of relief and I get that legally and legislatively they're allowed to but just because they can doesn't mean they should yeah this is a uniquely good spot for AT&T but also for us and that's why we bought this spot and we don't we didn't want anyone else to to put something in the way of us to have at a uniquely good spot well we'll see what we can do we're not we're not done yet thank you commissioner varus yes uh did at give you a reason as to why they would not consider another location yeah so the conversations that that we had when we were talking about other locations had to do with the cellular coverage uh that they were trying to achieve in um with this poll so again kind of going back to lots of smaller polls versus a few larger polls they're trying to cover specific areas um in this particular location again from from AT&T from a corporate perspective met the need that they were that they were trying to achieve I I certainly can sympathize with you I have a real estate background and I know real estate very well I've worked on both coast and my training wheels in Miami and it definitely could be something that's detrimental to the resale value of your home um see what other avenues can open up if you need each of us to write letters we will gladly do that on your behalf and as a professional I definitely can weigh in very well on that for you not at all any further comment so um commissioner Alise Elder Deputy County attorney just for the record we have a motion from commissioner campy which I don't think was second in so I just want to make sure that that's to send a letter yes AT&T yeah I think nobody seconded it so I second it okay there's a motion by commissioner campy seconded by commissioner heatherington all in favor I I opposed that motion passes unanimously thank you sir thank you thank you thank you thank you Mr Hammond welcome thank you and let's see second to last item is Department 7 environmental lands oversight committee guidance I just want to say at the beginning of this uh agenda item that uh John and Sarah Powers and I went to Washington DC last week and to attend the ecosystem restoration task force advisory committee and it's a group of of uh of appointed state and federal stakeholders and Martin County is so unique in Florida and perhaps in the United States in that we're such good partners about these uh acquisition of conservation lands and and and uh insistent about improving our water quality and nobody else partners with the state and with the like we do and I I of course brought up at the task force the fact that our voters had given us an additional 10 years of half-cent sales tax in order to enrich our our uh conservation lands purchases that's impressive when you take that to the state into the federal government you get really really enthusiastic willing partners and then we also visit so that was one day and the other day was visiting appropriators another you know really really important uh trip to make is is visiting people who are going to be potentially our partners um and and it's it's impressive no Nobody Does it like Martin KY thank you thank you uh my name is John M I'm the environmental resource administrator for Martin County I have here with me Mike Houston who's a senior project manager in the division and he will be taking a lead role in um executing our uh new sales tax funded conservation land acquisition program so thank you for the opportunity to give you a update today um to commissioner herd's Point um as we were discussing um Martin County's priorities and issues with our delegation um often times they would sit attentively and listen but as soon as commissioner herwood mention that we are taxing ourselves to participate as a collaborative partner in funding uh concer ation land priorities they would pick up their pencils and start writing um so it does get their attention um and it makes it um much easier for us to collaborate with those Partners uh so this item was uh kind of to continue the conversation uh to provide an update on staff uh progress and also to get more information education um and feedback on the establishment of the uh environmental land oversight committee that the ordinance called calls for so as you all know um for the record November 5th the voters of Martin County approved a dedicated funding source for the acquisition of environmentally sensitive lands uh that ordinance also um in contrast with the last uh ordinance that did so in 2006 that also passed this one narrowly defined the acquisition areas to four program areas um and I'll go through those just briefly for um the record and for your memory um the first area that was identified was Indian River Lagoon South uh natural lands component of phase two that's a mouthful of bureaucracy but essentially it is um the the lands that would meet the objectives of the comprehensive Everglade restoration plan in Martin County and those objectives include uh Natural Area storage and treatment of water storm water they include uh habitat uh restoration to kind of offset the loss of habitat from reservoirs that are built they take away some of the habitat and this is one one of the arguments for natural lands was to provide a mitigation for that um they also provide recreational opportunity they provide aquafer recharge um and they help uh hold the the needle so that the problem doesn't get worse in those areas um so any lands that are acquired in that um and would be in partnership with the Water Management District and pursuant to to the achievement of those Ser objectives um one of the neat things about those U Acquisitions is the County's contribution to that um will be some some portion of the purchase price or conservation easement price but it will also leverage on a 50/50 basis Federal investment in Everglades restoration so there's an incredible return on investment in those properties one of the other areas that were identified in the in the order ordance for acquisition would be Palmar which we're all very familiar with um recently we um negotiated a settlement on a case in palar that will increase uh the public holding by 1500 Acres this um this sales tax will help to fund that uh settlement agreement and also to to to prepare us to negotiate on acquisition of remaining private Holdings in in Palmar um one of the third area would be uh we call lock Aly it's really the land that would have been historically a slew that connects the the uh winding South Fork of the St Lucy River and the North Fork in Kitchen Creek of the lockah hatchee river uh it's also property that would create a connection between Atlantic Ridge State Park and Jonathan Dickinson State Park and uh would the result would be a phrase we've been kicking around the last few years a super Park um that's really unparalleled on the Lower East Coast uh the the trail connectivity opportunity ities the wildlife Corridor opportunities um in that acquisition effort um would would really make us a a regional if not national uh Benchmark for large scale restoration and setting aside natural areas um for the public and the last area that the ordinance uh allows for uh acquisition would be our floor blueways those tend to be smaller areas that provide access to the water um like beach beach properties uh Riverfront properties U we have a long history of success with providing um public access to the water and protection of Shoreline through those through that program and so those four program areas um one of the things that the ordinance requires is the establishment of an oversight committee um in our last uh dedicated funding source for conservation lands we had what was called a land acquisition selection committee as uh Mike has been U updating our land acquisition manual ual and the parameters for how this committee will function we've really had to think kind of with fresh uh lenses on what that committee stands for and how it functions um this because of the fact that this ordinance was so narrowly focused on four specific conservation land programs um there wasn't as much of a need for a robust nomination and selection process so Mike's really having to start from scratch with developing a manual to affect um the establishment of of of the program but it the ordinance specifically calls out some uh generic descriptions for organizations that would be represented um and and they are the following it would be four members appointed from dedicated environmental organizations with missions focused on education research preserving restoring acquiring and protecting the Public's local water quality the natural environment into enhancing and restoring local ecosystems there are three members that shall be appointed with one member representing each of the following an organization with a mission focused on fiscal oversight of government budgets and spending an organization with Mission focused on the real estate industry and an organization with a mission focused on responsible business growth and economic development and then lastly there'll be two members appointed from organizations with a mission focused on educating promoting and protecting the interest of agricultural farmers and Ranchers we have been uh reaching out to organizations to to kind of figure out who's been active in Martin County who has an active interest in participating in this and we we've had some conversations um with you individually about uh th those groups and the uh I I think what will happen next is we'll bring you a future item with um a a list of organizations to make up those um those spots those nine positions and then we would ask those organizations to nominate representative to to bring forward when we bring a resolution to establish the oversight committee um with that I I guess I I'd be happy to take questions and that's what Mike's here for questions comments suggestions commissioner Vargas yes hi um are you uh looking for more potential organizations to fill these particular places that will comprise this committee yeah I would say if you have recommendations we we we'd love to reach out to them find out what their interest is and um you know it's not every organization's active in Martin County one of the one of the nice things about the way this uh materialized is in the ordinance itself we went with generic descriptions largely at the county attorney's um wisdom that because if an organization ceases to exist or they have no participants um we can't really put it back to the voters to change the ordinance that's not functionally a very efficient way to approach it but by resolution of the board we can repopulate one of these positions fairly quickly so um absolutely do they have to be exclusively Martin County organizations it does not say that in the ordinance but we have assumed that and the particip and the participants have to be Martin County residents yeah I have some suggestions for the environmental folks and I'm throwing these out no order no recommendations they're just organizations that would be uh um eligible they're on your Christmas wish list yeah so the first is Martin County Conservation Alliance uh Martin County Native Plant Society the lock saloi Headwaters initiative the Indian rivere keeper and uh River Coalition Friends of the Everglades I mean the these are just obvious ones that came to mind and all of them would be eligible guardians Guardians for sure the meat anybody else you already have several organizations is that correct I think some of those may have been there's definitely interest from Martin County forever the the the new group that um drove the campaign for this um the Everglades Foundation has expressed an interest in participation aabon of Martin County has expressed an interest um uh Rivers Coalition we had on our list those are all great yeah they are yeah no shortage of good environmental groups to work with Okay the the business the second group is uh an organization with a mission focused on fiscal oversight of government budgets and spending taxpayers Association okay anybody else uh mark That's the SEC that's a second group this is the first one is focused on fiscal oversight of government budgets and spending I think that would have to be them for the time being seemed pretty specifically aimed at that we couldn't identify another group that would meet that definition that's active in Martin County okay then next one is is real estate industry Martin County realtor board I think some of these we were using generic terms for the actual organizations but some of those organizations like the taxpayers association's been around for several decades like 70 years the the Martin County Realtors association's not going to pack up anytime soon those were partly designed specifically for those groups and the limitation with anyone from the Realtor Association is if they want to uh nominate properties for this process and that would create a conflict of interest so potentially yeah that's right exactly that's the one that has the greatest potential for conflict well an agent but not the organization well I I think an agent should be a residential agent a commercial agent definitely could step into that very quickly certainly thank you we a broker but that doesn't well part of it is allowing the or individual organizations to nominate their person to come forward that's correct that's our interpretation obviously have to hear from you and Mike on what the criteria should be and ultimately when we bring forward a resolution to establish the committee there'll be names in those spots and so the board will have final say on yeah there'll be a lot that we bring all at once because we'll bring forward an item focus on the oversight committee members but also updating the acquisition manual um you know a board resolution of for the financing you know how that's going to work um but at the end of the day all decisions will be made through uh the County Commission so this group will make rep recommendations in terms of what lands they think uh you know and evaluate and rank different properties for acquisition but then it'll be brought in front of the board and it will be up to your decision as to whether or not that's an acquisition that we should pursue y yes just a quick question is part of it are we just waiting is this organization just going to wait to hear from willing sellers or will they be going out to solicit Key properties that we think we should have the way the process is set up is that anyone can nominate a parcel for acquisition uh there'll be a nomination form uh that gets filled out and that will be returned to us and then we'll evaluate and make sure that it meets with the intent of the ordinance uh 1221 uh if it does then uh we'll have a procedure in place for this selection committee to evaluate these proposals so we could do something like an environmental assessment or some other means so that they have something to look at to say you know this is and and and an evaluation Matrix as well some way for them to evaluate these properties and and to score them in terms of how important they are and and why would we we would be acquiring and then that would then come before the uh County Commissioners once they make recommendations also to your question uh commissioner there are uh lands that we have um known about forever and have made previous attempts um to acquire and our and our partners at the state and federal level that our programs um collaborate with they've continued to pursue Acquisitions and so there's there's a lot of stuff that's just going to be a continuation that we actually now have funding um to bring to the table so um it's I think it's quite possible that on some of these Acquisitions uh the south Florida Water Management District could be the lead and and we would just have a funding agreement approved by the board and and uh and looked at by the oversight committee um where we kick in a percentage to to help uh with a collaborative priority that that would be a huge consideration for me if if uh if we can find a funding partner that'll F fund well that's the goal yeah was to match four times as much we do and to that end we have already been advertising um you know this this new program uh in fact uh tomorrow we head up to tall Tallahassee and we uh Thursday we'll meet with um some leadership at DP to let them know hey we're here we're ready to partner on some our collaborative priorities we'll be speaking at the acquisition restoration council meeting on Thursday afternoon um not not necessarily to emphasize a particular project but just to say hey we we're coming and and we you know yeah you do magic trick where you turn $1 into four commissioner Vargas no that was my life from before thank you how about commissioner caps um I have had a comment back on the environmental groups and I didn't I didn't get quite get it in but uh I think it would be really important to uh reward the people who headed up the initiative in the first place you know you know if in in deciding what environmental groups would be good keep that in mind you know the people who put the leg work in for this Martin forever half half cent sales tax certainly Martin County forever and I don't know if there were others that had um a real presence in you know doing the work but you know that would be a good thing to consider Miss Woods I just wanted to to point out when we were talking about the board of realtors what what the county attorney's office will do is make sure when we are at the solicitation point we'll make clear conflict of interest and ethics issues so that our partner organizations know who to to nominate to the point of that commissioner Vargas made you know to point out if it's somebody from the uh board of realtors you want to appoint somebody that's not going to have a conflict real estate knowledge but not the conflict likewise with any of the other ones uh perhaps the the a um to know don't give us somebody that's going to want to do a organizations and the partnership to what um Mr Mayo was mentioning that's written into your ordinance so you have you know that additional ordance compliance that's wonderful to have to to represent for the folks that voted for this okay next one is organization with a mission focused on responsible business growth and economic development I think we have two options there it would be the business development board or The Economic Council they're obvious y anybody else is there a preference on either either of those or should we they collaborate amongst each other they could probably come forward and figure out there's advantages for either but you'd be willing to listen to other names this is not a final list today correct that's correct okay and last two EG members we had spoke each yeah the obvious one m the appeal of having a youth element involved in this um is is attractive does Florida Farm Bureau have a a local branch they do yes y IUS I don't know if that would be considered an A branch IAS now did that say two different organizations or two different members those are it's two organizations two members one from each correct can't have two from one I didn't consider that one you know if they're if if they also are part of another organization then they could represent that other organization true that's what I was thinking because there's a couple of key players involved in AEG yeah you know but they might not be in 4 you know right they might be grown commissioner caps things like in the a category there's a popular appeal for 4 and that seems to resonate when it comes to the second person and and a it seems that we're all struggling with finding the right organization and and an organization that has local credibility and that people in the local scen are familiar with um so I don't know what we need to do about that but I think we need to get comfortable name three with or perhaps commissioner heatherington do you FFA FFA is there another one that I think it's important that we have people that we're familiar with you know and that we're not just taking a stab but with some new organization that nobody seems to know that much about you bet and you want somebody formidable that's solid it seems like too we would want somebody who has uh knowledge of these areas and has connections with some of these different land owners um because I think that's important is just being able to approach these different owners and say hey we've got this pot of funding you know you don't have to necessarily sell us a property you can just give us a conservation easement um and get a you know get some money from from us and and still be able to do exactly what you've been doing uh so having you know some someone who has that kind of knowledge is seems to be appealing I guess yeah to Mike's Point you know there's the prescriptive role of the oversight Committee Member but then there's also you at least at a staff level um we would hope to have some Partners in that oversight committee that are uniquely uh poised to help with other aspects of the program um just by just by being near to it and involved with it you know there may be folks that have connections with our state and federal Partners there could be folks that could serve on the committee that also have you know agricultural relationships that speak that language and and help negotiate with land owners um you know any and all roles involved in this there's plenty of work to do to make the program successful and to have an actively and qualified engaged oversight committee I think we would be remiss not to engage them sounds good any further comments suggestions I what does aw have a local local member I don't think so okay okay that's a that would be a Environmental Group but I just thought of it I think we're good we appreciate your feedback thanks thank you Bo much and lastly we have a request to approve the settlement agreement and release of liability between our Eric LLC a Florida limited liability company in Martin County a political subdivision of the State of Florida in case number 23-141 n- C- Canon good afternoon afternoon Melissa Petri senior assistant County attorney as the board is aware we were in litigation that started last April um it was in federal court it was regarding our ordinance pertaining to the pet shops selling cats and dogs as a result of that litigation we have amended the ordinance that went before the board um um which essentially grandfathered in two exist pre-existing businesses um as a result of that Amendment the county filed a motion to dismiss in federal court asking the court to dismiss the complaint being that it was moot um we did that hearing last November uh judge Canon and federal court recently issued her order agreeing with the county that the issue is now moot um but also allowing Council to file an amended complaint and to proceed further on this case um plaintiff and the county attorney's office have entered into a settlement agreement which would result in the payment of attorney's fees um that included from last year up until uh the present I have reviewed the attorney's fees I have reviewed the uh itemized billing um it is legal's recommendation that we do agree um enter into the settlement agreement it is for $250,000 um and I would recommend commend uh or move that the board approve the settlement agreement and release of liability and authorize the chair or her appointee to execute all documents to complete this transaction and to authorize the transfer of funds from the general fund reserve and just as a side note this release of liability would then preclude any future lawsuits from the plaintiff in this action and it was resolve the matter in its entirety questions for Miss Petri comments motions okay um I'd like to say that um I really appreciate your efforts I really do and your staff um I sure would have lik to have been there at the beginning for negotiation um as County Commissioners we have a fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers of Martin County I don't take lightly our position as the Guardians of tax tax revenue paid by our residents uh again I appreciate all of your efforts uh your skills in negotiation but I still feel there's more room to go and um that more should be done commissioner C I see my colleague's point however the meter continues to run then uh so that if it look I I completely agree with your skill set and then you weren't making this determination alone you have a department that you've you know our County attorney so my concern would be you know absolutely I would love to continue to beat that number down but in the process of beating the number down it continues to grow it will correct so I would make a motion to accept staff's recommendation reluctantly but it is what it is there second second there's a motion oh commissioner heatherington yeah that was that was just a second commissioner caps um this is what is called I believe it's a 1983 action yes or is that what it's called it was a 1983 action uh the litigant filed several claims underneath the 14th Amendment also filed claims under so that was underneath the US Constitution claims underneath the Florida Constitution underneath Florida statute um it was I believe a noncount complaint and that action is a VI for violations of civil rights and the way the statute reads on that particular type of action is that the prevailing party gets the attorney's fees uh against the non-prevailing party and so the longer you draw out something I mean the the plain of attorney's fees just keep climbing and he gets to he gets those as long as he's prevailing in the action the settlement amount is going to or the attorney's fees are going to keep climbing and and and that's the reason it would be good to bring this to a conclusion that is correct he's um a prevailing party is entitled to attorney's fees and the case law is strong out there that even if the county were to Prevail it is um unlikely we could we would be able to recover our attorney's fees based upon um case law and the rationale for a 1983 action is that when your civil rights are being violated the government actually encourages lawsuits against itself in order to make sure that people's civil rights are not violated that is absolutely correct and that's exactly why the case law discourages counties or the government from collecting its attorney's fees if it wins it does want or encourages citizens to say when the government when they feel that the government's wrong them right so it's a unique type of lawsuit basically correct yeah that uh that has a lot of peril associated with it as far as climbing LW uh legal fees you know I think it's important to note that our colleague our new colleague commissioner caps is also an attorney yes nice skill to bring to the so we would have paid or we'll be paying $315,000 $250 no no no plus the 65 correct that was paid originally that was already done yes that was already done that was out of last year's budget M and that was regarding the other code the other plaintiff in the case which is resolved yeah it's a big deal there's a motion in a second all those in favor I I opposed I that motion passes 4 to one with commissioner Vargas dissenting we've now thank you we've reached the end of our meeting uh so now we just have we have time for public anybody from the public want to address us I don't see anybody commissioner comments let's start with commissioner heatherington almost set for today thank you about commissioner campy this is our last meeting of the year so and pre holiday so I'd like to take a moment to thank my colleagues uh our County staff and residents and wish them a very merry Christmas happy Hanukkah Quanza I think those are the main three but if not whatever you're celebrating I hope that the holidays are safe and festive that you get time to spend with family and loved ones that we enter into 2025 with our new colleagues I wish them uh and us well for the next for the coming year and what I've normally been saying is it's a time for celebration and happiness but it's also a sad time for many so try to find an opportunity to reach out to a family member you haven't spoken to a neighbor that might be alone co-workers use it as an opportunity to lift up somebody else during the holidays that might be down and with that I wish you all well very nice thank you commissioner caps I'm good thank you here Mr Vargas yeah um I um I think this is a wonderful time to be thankful uh this has been a momentous year for at least two of us uh on this board and we're very happy to be here to serve the community uh to serve Martin County residents uh we want everybody to um look forward to the new year and the possibilities because we certainly created it and we know it can be done um I just have one little comment uh if I may um you know I the agenda packet I think can sometimes be have too many items on it I really want this to be considered and today we faced just that there were some very well you know items that were well let's say a little contentious at times and I don't think that we're able to give enough time and attention that those types of agenda items would deserve so I respectfully request that maybe we work with staff to maybe limit the number of items um or we can prioritize key items or maybe we can delegate or postpone certain topics now I realize in January we will have two meetings this was one month one meeting um and um so hopefully this this could be looked at um because I I feel that maybe less items uh more thorough discussion uh more thought and more preparation also which I believe we all do before are coming to these meetings and That's essential also so if we could consider that I will bring that forward again in the new year but just wanted to make a mention of that to everybody here sure we'll definitely try to manage our agendas responsibly thank you and Commissioners Vargas and and uh caps did you begin commission certification to I went to the ethics training I was there for boot camp yeah boot camp we did that I I think that comes later after boot camp true Mr Donaldson did we start this yes you did we just started okay there's your answer they're they're terrific orientation that was fantastic it was a fantastic four days three days yeah it really was made a lot of contacts with other small uh counties and um definitely want to help us because we we do mirror uh but we may have a great idea they may I mean you know um biblically it says there's nothing nothing new Under the Sun right so um so we definitely want not to reinvent the wheel save time maybe offer more suggestions for staff and maybe they can tweak it or we can and uh you know make make Martin County great really why not we deserve it so that's my Christmas wish yes I Commissioners I know this is our last meet I have three items one of them is work related the other two are uh just celebrating a couple of our staff so I'll do the work item first and and that is um Miss krna had sent me an email um yesterday um uh regarding the village of Indian Town wanting to have some type of festival at timer pow Park in January Now using our parks for a festival or you know renting it as something is usually not a big deal but this is something of a larger scale I think they're looking to incorporate degler attractions and while I'm not asking for your uh approval on anything today but I would look to schedule something on January 14th for year approval but but some of what they would be asking for is the waiver of fees on on certain activities and then of course another big thing would be insurance I think we'll be working with our um our insurers given the fact that you have attractions there I'm I'm reluctant to wave the insurance fees on something of that magnitude um um but uh we'll be meeting with you individually but I just want to let you know that that's under consideration um and that with your yes January 14th meeting I had a brief conversation with Miss krisda their event is in the middle of January I don't know how they would plan to have that event if they don't know what we're thinking if if this group votes it down or sideways how are they going to promote for the next 30 days they'd have to pull the plug on it like almost on top of the event so I would double check the the dates of her event no it's January 23rd so what I guess what I'm looking for is one is that um their ability to use the park would be okay um I think it would be the condition of um that we may you all may limit what fees you wave but if they're willing to pay participate 100% in fees and insurance if you're okay with that then then I will continue to work with them and bring forward any waivers they want to do so perhaps the only thing I'd be asking you to do on January 14th would be the fees and the in and and and that type of thing so that that's that was my concept is really looking to so I would like um if they are trying to move that quickly on on a large event then um at least head nod saying that yes the village could use our park for a couple days but they need to com you know at this point time I'd say they need to comply with all our rules but they can ask for a waiver not guaranteeing that anything would would happen would you be able to provide us with the fees that are normally charged for an event and then yes I could yes well that would be part of our uh yes our discussion um yes so I think uh it is a this is a significant item I apologize for bringing it to but it just came up so um and uh and and if you're unable to make a a recommendation then uh they would have to carry forward at their risk so um what I'm asking then is um for the uh to uh allow the the administrator to continue to work with the village on the use of the park and that any of the waiver of fees insurance would be subject to board approval in January that yes let them wave insurance no I know we may not be able to wave insurance I I without uh you know they they can ask for but I don't think we can I I I'm sorry to just blur but I don't know from a liability standpoint that I'd recomm waving insurance we have sovereign immunity and the Indian town has some but the but the um the entertainment providers if there was any private businesses we don't do that in our Parks ever right um so for example the air show has they use our airport but their vendors have to provide proof of insurance so I I don't know that that I would I wasn't recommending I know they were asking for but so we could take that off the table I'm happy with that so yes definitely maintain the insurance on them every entertainment facility or concert what has to carry Insurance absolutely even you're selling Christmas trees on a lot you own a lot a vacant lot that you pay taxes on um you definitely want them to carry insurance and sufficient insurance commissioner heatherington I said or some people don't pay taxes on them well that may be too but I'm just saying it covers the cost you know um I had a thought and this came up during the rodeo MH um that it this is not pertaining to this item but I know that it was a major ordeal that some insurance carriers don't even offer the limits that we were asking for that particular uh and I don't believe it was Rodeo related I just think that another agenda item somewhere down the line that you bring back what our requirements or we have a discussion what we required because I do remember the rodeo they couldn't they they had a hard time getting Insurance there was one provider um for that and it was I want to say above $10,000 or more Comm K I think we need to basically give our opinions now I understand that came up on short notice but if ironx meeting is January 14th and their event is January 206 did you say uh 23rd through 26 that's what they're I think we've given you some of the key points we're not look interested in waving any of our insurance requirements um Mr Bate is here in terms of I don't even know what the fees would potentially be in terms of waving them can you share with us like what would a what would the fees be for that good evening Kevin abat parks recreation director um we haven't looked into it yet we just were made aware of it we do have a fee schedule um that has fees that range up based on participation you know if it's up to a thousand people we don't have that information back to evaluate what the fee would actually be we do know that the schedule is clear meaning that they could use the park so that's a it is available um and we also relative to insurance we did reach out to uh risk management to ask them if they could ask Trico our insurance carrier um what the limits would be for a fair so they're going to provide us it's a it's a Heritage Festival Festival yeah but I think they have amusement rides that they they're wish willing to do uh Festival sorry so they're reaching out to the St Luc Fairgrounds to see what their limits are for those attractions so if St louia Fairgrounds whose set the limits are set by Trico they'll let us know what those limits are and then we'll let them know who do we who do we wave fees for um we have a board approved fee we policy for not for profits that have been established for three or more years and meet the criteria for special event fees um so we have that by policy and um so and and upon upon request and of course I don't think they meet that criteria the other point that they wanted to make and Mr Donaldson had just briefly said it uh the possibility of using dler amusements uh which would be outside of the scope of some of the activities we allow on Park property I don't have a problem with that degler is a Martin County based multi-generational business they are professionals I'm sure they maintain all of their own insurance it's the same group that they've used at uh a similar situation that they've had here on on Dixie um I know that that was one of the collaborations that they were looking to do so I don't know if you'd need direction to allow that level of amusement but I would not be opposed to that one of the things to consider is that we currently have a board approved policy that prohibits Amusement rights on County property Park property specifically was over a decade ago um so we'd have to actually amend that not amend that policy maybe this is an exception to that policy so we currently have I don't like exceptions I do not either well yeah that would that would be an item that would have to come back in January January 14th okay so why don't we just leave it for January 14th if you want to speak with us individually and say these are the fees we normally charge and kind of get an opinion from us and we're ready to go put that right at the top of the list somebody calls Indian town because the Heritage Festival is not not for profit it's a for-profit Enterprise put that on you know I we we don't know much about it at this point and so that's why I'm reluctant to to to put anything U hard and fast it was really this is actually helpful Direction on on uh on working with the village and and and trying to help them understand the risks of um the level approval that I can give them at this point versus uh um trying to move forward on a January 23rd date um and so there it certainly seems that um what I'm hearing is certainly they need to have insurance if they're going to have amusement rides if we don't allow amusements on County property it's it's a no then yes if they if if they're going to have amusements right so that would be something that we need to to further consider so well I believe that they were interested in having amusements based on my conversation with them I'm not necessarily opposed to having a professional Amusement Company I agree with my colleagues exceptions are not necessarily the right strategy but amending the policy that opens opens the door for all of this to happen I think that there's certain level of um organizations and events that might be able to take place you know we own the I get that there's a separate lease for the fairground property that's owned by the county so I don't know if this is a western Martin County collaboration with Indian Town out on our property I'm not personally opposed to having amusements I think it meant to be like a similar to um Carnival type amusements like games a Midway of food items and potentially some um some rides we could maybe say we don't want I don't know how they rate rides if they have you know light rides medium rides and heavy rides so you know well let's not I I don't think we're prepared to approve any type of ride today I think that's way too detail so I think my communication with the village will be that if it's a typical use of uh of our um of our facilities that doesn't um violate any current policies they can move forward if it requires uh an amendment it's going to require a separate board action uh with so we can have uh our Trico Insurance vet all the different issues on on whether we would have a recommendation to amend because like we we don't know if if it's full dler show with with uh you know all the rides or is it just uh food court and uh you know but so anyway I think U that's that would be the direction I'm hearing is that uh without um um the only thing that we can move forward on at this point is a is a typical Park use operation and any amendments that would be required would require board action and um and that couldn't happen until January 14th January 14th and if I'm part of that group which I'm not there's no way to have an event a week later because you'd have to be promoting it starting basically now so what do you promote so I think the conversation was constructive because if I was part of that organizing group and I listen to what we just discussed I can't imagine how you could move forward with an event of the scale that they were discussing do it in February perhaps so which is when the possible be flexible on the date February is a fine month it's still Martin County Fair month that's true so don't make it on the same weekend they keep going from Midway to Midway across the land all right well I'm I'm sorry to drag us down with that conversation having H so let me uh let me end it I wanted to get over that one first yes uh a little green yes uhuh I I did want to say uh uh Susan cores who was here earlier um did get a special recognition from Martin arts for their Eco Ripple project that was a excellent one of congratulate them on that I'm not familiar with it where is it located it's in Palm City if it's winning the other side of the bridge there and then the other is nissia OK um there's the new service of Florida recognizes women in government and public service and she won a 2024 above and beyond for uh numerous activities including explore Martin and other programs they put together and of course so both the both of those women deserve our accolades for for their great service to Martin County and and being recognized uh Statewide uh for for their achievement so Susan lives in pal City so uh anyway that and uh yeah Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everybody thank you thank you Miss Woods no ma'am I'll just assure the board that we research all the liability yes please do that's your holiday everyone wonderful holiday thank thank you me too safe travels happy holidays we adjourned thank you so much --------- ##VIDEO ID:vD54msLtvx0## you're on ready y good morning and Welcome to our December 10th Board of County Commission meetings this is my favorite meeting of the year because we get serenad by little elves from The Gertrude Walden Center this morning so please welcome them as they sing as they Carol us into the holiday season [Music] little good morning morning we bring you greetings from gerud Walen Child Care Center a beautiful center located in East Stewart this is our 42nd year and these are a beauti bpk students bpk is volunteer pre kindergarten that means they'll be going off to kindergarden in the fall so we are here to spread a little Christmas cheer we've been in the holiday mode for a couple weeks now we went to ice at the Gaylord Palms on last Wednesday um this Friday they'll be performing two shows in the Nutcracker with Florida arts and dance and again on Saturday so this morning we are here to spread our annual Christmas cheer boys and girls are we ready you go BS first one 2 three jingle bell jingle [Music] [Music] bell is jingle bell jingle bell jingle all right thank you all right are we ready so we wish you a Merry Christmas 1 2 3 We Wish You A We wish you a Merry Christmas we wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year we BR you K we wish you Merry Christmas and happy New [Applause] Year on next Thursday we'll have our annual um breakfast with Santa followed by our Christmas Community dinner we had our Thanksgiving Community dinner the thirsday before Thanksgiving and this year we serve over 3,100 plates that day throughout the community so we can't do that every year without so many of you so we thank Martin County for their support boys and girls are we ready for our final song [Music] I guess we did I'm going with come [Music] mik you're handling the te yes [Music] [Laughter] future politician so the mic went right yeah we go you got to you got to show them it was worth away it was worth away you ready [Music] I was right here I was right here I was right [Music] there police L up police L up [Music] [Music] [Music] louder I wish you a Merry Christmas I want to wish you a Merry Christmas I want wish you a merry chras the bottom of my heart wish you a Merry Christmas I want to wish you a merry Christmas I wish you Merry Christmas the bottom of heart [Music] [Music] Merry Christmas I want to wish you a Merry Christmas I want to wish you a Merry Christmas the of my heart Merry Christmas I to wish you Merry Christmas I want to wish you a merry of We wish you a very [Applause] thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thankk you great thank coming to see us thank you so much [Music] you sound good why [Music] [Music] [Music] in my area you could have got it yeah you ran out yeah okay welcome back that was wonderful thank you very much gerre Walden that's the highlight of our year um I'm we're going to start the meeting with uh a moment of silence um would Pete Croft from the sheriff's department like to uh introduce us to our moment of silence please thank you commissioner and let me start by saying thank you to all the commissioners it's hard for me not to address the crowd but um let me just start by saying thank you on behalf of sheriff Snider and Sheriff elect buen seek who are up at uh training for the new sheriffs of the State of Florida this morning myself and major claer are here to represent and as many you know my name is Peter Croft I'm your major of law enforcement so while they're away we are the ones that are responsible to you all to make sure that this county has run appropriately with that I'd like to just take a moment and I'd like you all to join me as we look back and we honor the families um of the fallen officers the three fallen officers from Palm Beach County were unfortunately taken up from us too early and it is a grim reminder of the cost of of what we do every day we understand that our industry is not only an expensive one but it is a very dangerous one and unfortunately these events have become almost an annual occurrence for us here locally on the Treasure Coast and in South Florida attending law enforcement funerals is a good reminder of what the cost of of safety is in our community so with that please join me in a moment of silence and before we do that let me just add for our heartfelt thoughts uh for the moment of silence for the passing of our uh Public Works uh Department employee Pam not who passed away this weekend thank you commissioner thank you thank you all very much for participating in that we truly appreciate the support of not only Commissioners but the community thank thank you and now please uh stay standing and our invocation is going to be by Reverend anel Singh good morning good morning good morning U thank you for inviting me it's great to see all of you again let's unite in heart mind and spirit creator of our glorious Universe author of all life Giver of every good and gracious gift thank you for breathing life into us all thank you for our great nation for our home state of Florida and for our beloved Martin County and thank you for the dedicated hardworking leaders public servants and officers gathered here today those who devote their time talent and expertise to make our County a better place to live we thank you especially on this day for those who have given their lives in service to us all gracious one as we celebrate the holidays in our all unique and wonderful ways lead us us to regard and welcome one another as beloved neighbors give us eyes to see the goodness and mercy in each other whatever our faith or background and grant us the compassion and fortitude to care for one another despite our differences or disagreements and in this season of peace and Good Will towards all Kindle within us a fire of compassion and courage to lift up the Fallen to give voice to the voiceless to feed the hungry and shelter the sh Ing and to bless people in need with whatever they need may your loving Spirit Inspire us to strive not only for our own good and not only for the good of our friends allies and supporters but for the good of all may your Justice mercy and steadfast love bless us all everyone amen amen thank you and now Heather Walden would you come forward and lead us in the pledge please good morning good morning I pledge alance to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and Miss walon would you tell us a bit about your Navy career okay yeah um I spent nine years active as a naval officer I managed my goal of besides serving the country was to get to the Monterey Naval Postgraduate School to get a master's in computer science which I did and the secondary goal was to work on every system I could in the Navy uh I started out working on the naval tactical data system which is the basis for the combat information centers back then it was probably it would probably look like a a rudimentary game that we have today shooting drones um um at the weapons range in Puerto Rico and then I ended up delivering that the new the newer versions to the carriers when I was stationed in San Diego then I worked on the uh Personnel systems that were Mainframe based back then in DC and then I went on to work on the Telco and helped lay T1 lines around the the world actually that became the backbone to the Internet so that that dates me huh so um uh my my Master's thesis was in uh database design so I went on after the Navy even though I was still in the reserves to work for companies like Oracle and cbase um and uh ended up uh teaching Java and having a bunch of Consultants up on Wall Street designing backends for or places like Goldman Sachs JP Morgan uh we helped loed Martin win the fingerprint system by showing them how to do things that today are you know basic um so but the one thing I wanted to say was you know through all these things through all the um the government and the commercial sectors the thing that was always given the less traction the least budget uh and it was the guy in the corner was the security guy okay and I think today that really really has to change um we got hacked this week uh AT&T Verizon Congress just allocated $3 billion to take Chinese Telco out of our systems um uh some of the good news is that meta has given the Department of Defense their AI system so um you know we're we're working at it but it's a different Battlefield today and uh people need to be aware and I wanted to let everybody know that um on LinkedIn there are an amazing array of free courses through the Martin County Library on cyber security so um I would encourage everyone to encourage everyone to look at the these courses to kind of understand some of the basic things that they can do with their phones and their computers to make our country a little more safe so thank you thank you what wonderful career paths the Navy offers us thank you very [Applause] much all right we will begin our meeting with public comment um immediately at 10:00 a.m. we're going to have a local Bill request for inmate medical costs at 10:30 a. we're going to have a preset for a future fire station analysis after Department 5 after the future fire station analysis we're going to take up the Wawa matter uh at 5:05 we'll have public comment there is one additional item and that's Department 8 which is requesting approval of settlement agreement and release of liability between Eric R Eric LLC of Florida limited liability company and Martin County a political subdivision of the State of Florida case 23-1 14109 dc- Canon approval of settlement regarding R Eric LLC versus Martin County is there a motion to approve the agenda with the additional item I will move approval of the agenda with additional item departmental number eight second there's a motion in a second all those in favor I opposed that motion passes unanimously uh the first Proclamation is a proclamation uh recognizing and and honoring Sylvia safransky upon the occasion of her retirement from service with the Martin County Board of County Commissioners Miss Jennifer Salis good morning good morning commissioner is Jen Salis Library director um I'd like to say a few words and I'm going to give a moment for Sylvie to speak in the 30 years that Sylvia has worked for our library system she has positively impacted so many of our library staff and our patrons Sylvia has incredible passion for her work and her enthusiasm for connecting other industry Concepts to the library world will be something that we will certainly Miss Sylvia is a foodie at heart and has incorporated customer service skills from the restaurant world into how our public services staff interact with our residents in our library thinking outside the box is a regular occurrence for Sylvie and our library system has thrived under her guidance I will finally remember conversations at meetings that took a completely different direction in a positive way due to her exploring Alternatives that the rest of our teams had not considered her way of integrating what she has learned through podcasts and professional development books and articles into everyday life for our library staff is something that will be hard to fill like many in our system we um have never known our library system without Sylvia's influence so on behalf of the entire Martin County Library System we congratulate Sylvie on her retirement and her service to our community thank [Applause] you it's the quiet library staff I I was never a quiet person um I I brought some notes to read cuz reading is cool and it's going to help me uh keep it together um thanks to my people for showing up I want to thank you for making it possible for me to come to work every day in one of the best place on earth a library when I started in 1994 and entry-level Library staff person had to learn four things Shelf books according to The Dewy Decimal System search the library catalog check in and check out books and tapes and operate an answering machine uh the one we had on rku teras had three buttons I know that many assume that this is still what they do I wanted to tell you it is not today our new staff's training process spans over three months and starts with an intensive three weeks in which they receive formal training on over 40 Library specific topics that is on top of all the county required training like public records responsibilities and um Internet Security um and that's just the beginning of their career they connect your consistent your constituents with over 60 different Library Services they man shelters when you activate they welcome voters tax preparers Community concerts Etc they guide residents to and through all the services you and other government levels only offer online now they do things like help your sister learn about breast cancer treatment options and how to find the best rate the best rated specialist to face hard diagnosis they help your neighbor prepare for his child custody hearing they also answer every one of your four-year-old questions about dinosaurs they invite your babysitters to learn about crafting activities for all ages they introduce your teenager to their next favorite author they show your parents the patient that you sometimes lack and teach them again and again how to update a contact on their phone they teach your grandparents how to identify scams and protect themselves online every day they have to be aware of over over a dozen of federal law state law local ordinances regarding privacy ADA compliance voters registration internet regulation and more they have to be articulated enough to explain them clearly so people understand they know how to use dozens and dozens of software hardware and specialized resources they do all that with a warm smile whether it's 10:00 a.m. or 700 p.m. Wednesday or Sunday libraries are no longer a place to just borrow books their Dynamic Community hubs are staff embodies adaptability problem solving and commitment to service thank you for supporting the evolution of our libraries and for recognizing the incredible work that our staff does it's been a joy for me to serve this community for 30 years thank you so [Applause] and our next Proclamation is a proclamation recognizing Noah's Day of Play in Martin County Florida good morning Commissioners on December 10th 2020 Martin County resident Noah stanakis passed away in a fatal car accident while attending college at AA University Noah visited the Children's Museum as a child became an active volunteer and work there for 3 years each year since his passing Noah's parents Mark and Sharon stanakis have donated funds to allow families free entry into the museum to honor Noah's birthday on September 9th and on December 10th the day of his passing therefore December 10th is recognized as Noah's Day of Play in his honor and here are Mark and Sharon stanakis along with Tammy cabria the CEO of before we hear from them Commissioners we need a motion to adop motion to adopt a second there's a motion and a second second to all those in favor I opposed it passes unanimously County Commissioner Sharon and I are honored and humbled to stand before you today four years ago Noah had succumb as mentioned to injuries suffered in a fatal motor vehicle accident in Kanas City Missouri where he was on baseball scholarship at avalo University Noah was a a graduate of Martin County High School the loss is as difficult as you can imagine to know Noah was to know a smart kind humble athletic fun-loving kid Sharon and I could stand before you today and say that we know Noah better today in his death than we did when he was alive since his death there have been countless Young adults that came up to us and say no was the first one to include us when we were new in school this was just one example of his kindness no has great friends today that hurt in his absence no had the opportunity to work at the children's museum in the Treasure Coast which he loved where he was able to impact his co-workers and young young kids that enjoyed the museum children were drawn to Noah lastly we want to recognize the entire Martin County Community a compassionate Community one that you should all be proud to represent we have lived in Martin County for 15 years we've been overwhelmed with the support of the community from both at the time and since Noah's passing Sharon and I continue to pledge our continued support of organizations who like Noah want to help others especially children Noah's Day of Play will honor Noah and be a reminder to our community for the importance of keeping kids front of mind and the importance of play again we want to thank Tammy Calabria for submitting this and you approving this Proclamation God bless Sarah if mind me take a moment I have twins that went to high school actually all school with Noah and and your daughter uh it was a terrible tragedy he was as gorgeous on the inside as he was on the outside and it's a horrible lost and so my thoughts and prayers are with you Emily and Nicholas loved him he absolutely loved him he was a superstar still is [Music] [Applause] okay okay now we're going to move to public comment uh Tom Pine followed by uh Robert Aronson do you want to speak on public comment which one is this you want to speak a public comment or on on an agenda item uh public okay thank you you're next good morning morning Commissioners my name's Tom Pine I've been a resident of Martin County for over 50 years presently living in the Jensen Beach area with a new majority of Maron County Commissioners the excitement in the air there is excitement in the air that maybe just maybe the new majority will consider their spending habits on how it affects the average person in Martin County I'll start today with the Community Development agency every time I drive down in downtown Jensen Beach my stomach turns when I look at the buildings on the north side of the street that's where our Tech that's where local tax dollars local taxpayers that live in the Jensen Beach CRA contributed at least $20,000 in taxes that were paid to the county to refurbish the buildings how can it even be legal to take tax dollars from one group of Martin County residents and and give them to another group of another group the business community in the CRA to clean up their buildings I asked that specifically of the director of community redevelopment agency who was told no Financial need is not a requirement that's why the fastest growing industry in Martin County is feeding Martin County residents the last couple of times our parks department head spoke at a County Commission meeting he made a big deal out of gross profits at some of the county parks well that makes sense now as to why it costs so much to stay at a Martin County RV Park the rates at fips Park are $50 to $60 a day plus tax I I called other counties on the Treasure Coast to see what their rates are St Lucy County Savannah campsite $22 plus tax Indian River County 3885 plus ta tax included fuchia County $40 plus tax St Lucy South Army cores of Engineers at the locks $30 plus tax estanis a s Santa State Park it's 4170 complete JD State Park 4228 complete bahaya State Park $58 complete this is what happens when our taxs department goes into business the working class gets the shaft again thank you for your time thank you Robert Aronson is next good morning uh I'd like to say that I'm a property owner in Martin County for 37 years paying taxes on one acre of land that I purchased 37 years ago only to find out that I had Wetlands on part of it which maybe some of you know my brother-in-law Pina he was the one with the fluoride he's the one who fought the town with fluoride he came on my behalf to represent me to find out what was going on and he investigated that you flooded my property you have not cleaned the swell in over 37 years and Stacy I read about you cleaning up the swes in your District or something to do with that but anyway what happened after we were denied a builder refunded my 15,000 no he did not refund my 15,000 so I lost 15,000 because he said it would take five years five years to get something to do with the Wetland so my brother-in-law 45 year engineer investigated it and he said they flooded your property Bob so he came to this meeting here 7 times seven times Well my wife had a break break down a nervous breakdown because we saved 37 years to buy that acre of land and then she had a brain aneurysm right after that why did she have that look it up stress my dream with my family was destroyed because in the back of my property the one acre on a cuer saac has never ever been touched by the county to clean it or drain it or whatever so the water from nine 10 houses came to my property and caused a wetland so I understand the former commissioner didn't do anything and uh that's why I helped Miss vgas with her campaign I worked for Jimmy haa for 30 years as a recording secretary in his Union I know how it works a little bit I don't really want to be here doing this somebody said sue the I'm not suing anybody I would like you to fix the property period you got the Manpower you got the equipment what does it take after 37 years of owning it paying taxes and HOA fees then losing 15,000 to a builder I'm 74 years old how many more years does my wife and I have I'm married 55 years sir son was in the Marine Corps my daughter sir your time is up and my son's a retired police officer sir your time is up thank you thank you thank you I'll be back Renee lard do you want to talk on public comment or mango Terrace okay come on welcome Sarah it's nice to finally see you there thank you been there before two years um my name is Renee lard mored and I'm a resident of Jensen Beach 25 years on Skyline Drive this January um I'm here to talk about the mango Terrace variance um it sounds like we're putting the cart before the horse with this Road variance request without submitting site plans or what they plan on doing with this property in my opinion I think they just want you to accept this road put it into the county system and then flip it to a developer as a matter of fact I just learned the property is for sale and has been for sale for a year um when the Cassel purchased the property they knew there was no legal access available at the time and they brought this hardship upon themselves uh other people had wanted to purchase the property in the past but were told it's landlocked and it would not be able to be accessible the proposed load road is located along the section of the Atlantic Ridge and would intersect with a location with very low visibility very steep incline which raises concerns about traffic accidents which are ongoing on Skyline Drive due to the speeding um Vehicles speeding complaints have uh been an ongoing issue uh for there's been um signage would with uh the speed warning on it but it doesn't help a few other reasons that I believe it should be rejected um Martin Skyline Drive is and will continue to be used by Martin County as a detour to bypass the center of town which brings more cars more traffic it's not done often but often enough um there's quite frequently uh Landscaping Vehicles parked two houses up from this proposed Road there's very low visibility when you're coming up at that incline as it is and it's a curvy Road this is just going to make it worse more dangerous and um it shouldn't it shouldn't be allowed also now the water from the road all the drainage and everything will go right down the hill directly towards the Estuary which already has enough problems as it is um what thank you for your time thank you Charles Marshall do you want to speak at public Comon or mango Terrace okay morning morning morning I'm Charles Marshall and uh speaking about the same thing that the previous speaker spoke to um I live on the south side of this right of way that they're trying to expand and uh it's a 30ft right away the requirement for building a road is 50 ft so they W you asking you to uh ignore 40 ft of required Road width which is I mean 40% which is 20 20 ft 40% of the requirement um my neighbor on the other side uh Mr Brian Allen he's not able to be here today he's out of state he wanted to be here but he wrote letters to you all I wrote a letter and also there's an attorney that wrote a letter they're included in the in the docket or whatever you call it um I have copies of the letter have them if anybody wants one I urge you to read them if you've already read them reread them if you haven't read them read them it's much more detailed than what I can go into here uh but basically we feel like the the uh the application for Road Varian is very premature there aren't any site plans for development there aren't any road construction site plans being proposed we don't know what's going to happen if this variance is approved uh it could cause problems like the previous owner uh speaker talked about with an intersection being added to Skyline Drive right there they were they were asking for a sidewalk which is also going to cause safety hazards to pedestrians that would have to walk up there and then cross sideline Drive Skyline Drive to get to the sidewalk on the other side because there's not a sidewalk on the east side of skyline it seems to cause a lot of problems it's not very thought out I think it's just a request for a variance to try and help sell the property uh the land owner has owned the property for about three years it's in exactly the same condition that it was when he bought it nothing has changed to create a hardship for him um I've lived there since 2016 so I was there before it was sold and very familiar with it been doing this without my notes so the water the water that she mentioned is is storm water is a problem and we're we're fighting erosion all the time with the uh water coming down there so I my belief this this road will turn into a a river during heavy rains um I guess my time's up huh um I don't have anything to say in 10 seconds guess every yeah your time is up now sir I just encourage you if you haven't read these letters please read them thoroughly they go into much more detail thankk you thank you thank you John dial do you want to speak on uh Wawa or now he's not I didn't think he was Tammy Amerson I'm going to speak on Wawa but I have to go to the hospital I'm a nurse so I have to leave um good morning honorable Commissioners and members of our esteemed Community my name is Tammy Amerson and I live in Lake Tuscany near locks and caner Road and I stand before you not only as a resident of that beautiful neighborhood but as a passionate advocate for the future of our community I'm here today to respectfully ask you to reconsider the approval of the Wawa as it presents a series of concerns that will negatively impact our community in both the long and shortterm first and foremost our homes are not just houses they're places of Peace safety and well-being for our families a gas station convenience store right next door to where we live will disrupt that piece the constant noise from cars trucks and delivery vehicles combined with the 24-hour operation of such a facility will create an environment that's no longer conducive to a residential area beyond the noise there are significant health and safety risks according to the Department of Health and Human Services and the American Cancer Society Benzene is a known carcinogen with multiple adverse health effects it's released during fueling idling cars and from underground storage tanks events according to the agency for toxic substances and disease registry it is a causal agent of Leukemia and is associated with Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma and multiple Myoma they have found that those living near gas stations may be exposed to higher levels of benzene Research indicates that the most reliable way to protect public health and safety from Benzene is to guide new gas stations to sites where they will be at least 500 ft from residential Zone properties this development is less than 50 ft this could could potentially jeopardize the health of our neighbors a 2021 study in the Environmental Research and public health Journal documented that adverse health risks are increased when neighborhoods are situated near gas stations if this is built there will be eight gas stations within 2 miles I did see that many counties in Florida and across the US have actually adopted that 500 foot public health safety zone maybe it's something to consider for us as well we must look at the long-term vision of our neighborhoods we should prioritize developments that enhance our quality of life more green spaces community centers local initiatives that bring us together a gas station is not a step in that direction in conclusion this is not just about a store it's about the kind of community that we want to build and nurture one that prioritizes health safety and local businesses we value our community and don't want to sacrifice it for the sake of convenience I thank you so much for your time and I ask that you help us preserve our community thank you thank you commissioner Vargas I'm sorry I overlooked your light no no it it will not turn off oh all right did that I I'm the only one who can turn off turn on you can't turn off yeah we haven't figured out that on and off switch yet we're working on it got that thank you Wayne witson would you like to speak now or on the mango Terrace item now good morning Commissioners my name is Wayne witson I Am a uh co-owner Inherited property we've been on Skyline Drive for 50 years and own the property for close to 55 years uh this mango Terrace it does not impact me directly cuz I'm about maybe a football field away 300 uh 300 yards 300 100 yards however I do pity my neighbors who will be directly and adversely affected by this and uh it could probably adversely affect their property values as well uh anyway also want to speak about uh as Renee had mentioned earlier we still have a speeding problem here on Skyline Drive I would incourage the commission at some point maybe we could all get together and have a field trip and come out and see where this proposed Road's going to go and you might actually catch some of our Speeders passing you on a solid yellow line in a 25 mph residential Zone I don't know what else to do here but uh I do thank you for your time and uh please consider your decisions wisely thank you thank you Tammy Carroll is next would you like to speak at public comment or on the w item okay good morning morning my name is Tammy Carroll and I am a resident of Savannah States and I am actually here to speak in support of the Wawa if I could choose to have nothing on that corner that is what I would choose so I am not here trying to put a gas station right outside of the Gate of my community but the fact that something is going to go on that property and this particular um project does check all the boxes it disturbs me as a business owner that we could actually say no to it when it actually legally should be allowed to go there but aside from that um I don't want to see a self storage or another car wash on that corner all things that don't need your commission approval all things that we could get through with staff approval a pain management clinic a Taco Bell I think those would be worse on that corner than having an upscale gas station yes do we have a lot of gas stations right in our area we absolutely do do we have a lot that we would actually want to walk into no we don't so getting a nice upscale Wawa who is a great neighbor to have I don't know if you're aware of this or not but part of Wawa's um when they set up a project they actually set it up to make sure that it is safe enough for a mother with a young child to enter at 11:00 at night that's the kind of neighbor that I want on my corner not a downgraded gas station or a pain management clinic or God forbid another Self Storage or Car Wash so I ask you to please consider that this project does check all the boxes and Wawa is a good neighbor to have thank you for your time thank you thank you for your opinion Matthew Shmo is next would you like to speak now or at the uh Department six item okay Michael penella Mr Panella do you want to speak now or at the Wawa item okay that is those are the last uh no I have one more uh Walter Lloyd morning Commissioners uh I too cannot stay for the for the meeting so I did want to speak on Wawa I'm I'm basically asking do we really need another gas station I mean uh just as the previous speaker mentioned if we've got eight gas stations within a two mile region uh and we've got gas stations throughout the entire city and county do we need another one uh I would U disagree that uh storage facility probably would be something that's a lot quieter a lot uh less busy and present a lot safer environment um if I was if I was on this board I'd be probably seeking a moratorium on gas stations I think we got way too many so thank you very much thank you would anyone else like to address us this morning in public comments now it's time for commissioner comment commissioner Vargas um the the um person that that spoke about the Swale and the flooding um I I would like him to contact I don't know if he's still here but cont contact info perfect that's fine because I would like to go buy his property and take a look at it I'm going to reserve my comments for the other items as they come up on the agenda okay I appreciate that you want to take down this thank you commissioner caps good morning uh a few things uh I went to ethics training and new commissioner boot camp in Tampa this uh last Tuesday and Wednesday put on by the Florida Association of counties and the training was excellent and I learned a lot and this last weekend we had three Christmas parades that I was able to participate in one one was uh the city of or or in Stuart the Stewart Christmas parade on Friday evening and I was really surprised at how many people were there being from hob sound I tend to just go to the hob sound Christmas parade and and I usually don't make it to the steuart Christmas parade but I was uh rather amazed at at the level of participation there and then Saturday afternoon we had the hob sound Christmas parade uh passed out a lot of candy with Ed I ran out of candy in my big sack so Ed had this big cart full of candy and I uh I uh started raiding his cart I I hope he was not offended okay I appreciate that and then Saturday evening we had the Indian town Christmas parade which was uh very heartening to see all of the little kids uh on the edges of the street it was uh very heartening these are great Community traditions and community events and I appreciate all of you who came on Tuesday December 17 at 11:30 a.m. there will be an event at the Boys and Girls Club of Stewart to honor Sheriff William Snider who has served our as our sheriff for the last 12 years uh he's done an amazing job as our sheriff and I am proud to call him my friend I hope you all can come to that and on that same day in the evening 12:17 there will be a Western lands steady Workshop put on by 1,000 friends of Florida and the Guardians of Martin County at the wolf Technology Center at IRSC I plan to go I hope I I'll learn a lot I'm sure I will and I hope you all can join us and that's all I have thank you commissioner campy I'm all said thank you so much Comm Mr he Hetherington I'm all set as well I'm set Mr Donaldson yeah I just wanted to uh um I think last uh week there was a pretty significant uh uh change in events for the Water Resource development act and uh commissioner herd was there with our other staff and uh two things happen one there's an item on today a consent item for um some uh easements related to our beach nourishment program and so there is an an important bill in there regarding easements It's Kind the policy wonky part of I won't get into it but it was important that that got passed but really more importantly there was a discovery that um there's a lake okachobee component a storage Reservoir a mouthful but it amounts to what's very important to us is that the district the State of Florida is looking to expand storage north of the lake and it was very very important that it get into the word of bill which uh it was not last this time last week it was not in the word of bill um staff found about it and uh and it the the story about maybe you'll have to catch commissioner herd later but it it revolved um digging it out of OMB where it was stuck uh getting it uh getting our Senator and the congressman and congresswomen around the state to get it back inserted uh which our team of uh um lobbyists did a great job and we quite skeptical that this could even happen and we're suggesting that it should happen in uh two years from now just give up on it um none the day it's uh up for vote today it got put in the uh um uh the uh in in there it's uh it's important why is it important to Martin County because a project like this uh increases Storage North of the lake which will help lower um releases to our estuaries and then also it helps clean up the water so that we will when we do have releases it'll be cleaner than the dirty water we normally get so thank you commissioner and your team for really doing what I understand was a pretty amazing uh uh rare event in in DC of having something that was not in a bill actually get amended and added to it uh on the fly so thank you Miss Woods ma'am thank you all right Commissioners we've taken we have a new order in our agenda now we're going to consider the consent agenda is there a motion to approve the consense agenda move approval second there's a motion in a second all those in favor I opposed that motion passes unanimously we will now take up our 10:00 preset which is Department 3 uh a local Bill request for inmate medical costs good good morning Miss Powers good morning medic yes so um we're here today to just present some of our findings um in researching this uh inmate medical issue that we have um in some proposed legislation that uh we intend on filing next session um with me today I have Matt Graham he's our our insurance medical Al things medical Guru in Martin County uh we have from the Sheriff's Office Kevin young bud and uh Frank is who's our attorney who's helping us on this so this bill will limit uh the compensation healthc care providers who provide medical services for inmates house in the Martin County Jail um that will cap the rate that they can charge us at 100% of 110 10% of the Medicare reimbursement rate um St Lucy County ran this last year and was successful so we're mirroring um what they did here in Martin County and here's some of our our findings um and if you want to go into kind of what what this looks like so good morning Commissioners uh this chart here shows um a $445,000 savings approximately over the past 16 months of insurance claims that we've had through our current medical provider well path so the way it works is our inmates receive treatment at the jail but when their treatment requires um expertise beyond the care of the facility at the jail they usually go offsite more likely than not Cleveland Clinic um but it could be another treatment U provider as well and we're subject to the negotiations between wellpath and Cleveland Clinic or whatever other uh treatment provider that they're going to so um this this is only the past 16 months we've had a prior um medical provider prior to this named armor they're no longer in business so we don't have the claims data for that if we did um in the insurance industry you would see you have some good years and you have some bad years and you know Kevin can talk to this just as much as I can just with our employees we have great years and then we can have a catastrophic claim and a million doll claim and it would hurt our um Insurance tremendously so um just in the past five years we've had an 85% increase to our medical cost to our inmates um so this bill would give us stability not only if we change our medical providers but looking forward um through all the future years if we didn't have insurance we're CA to the 110% of the Medicare rate so it would really help us out we've had some astronomical bills in the past this will be extremely helpful to us I mean when one one patient millions of dollars yes and this is the same um process that the state uses so the state gets this rate in their system already so now it's we're trickling down to the locals so next steps uh I just we're so we take this with your approval to the delegation meeting and ask them to take it up and file it on our behalf we'll run it through session with the uh Sheriff's Office and our team together let's get it cross the finish line and hopefully the governor will sign it at the end of session um that would be the plan so um the delegation meeting is scheduled for January 9th um and uh uh John Snider is the chair of that so okay you need a motion to okay to uh proceed with the inmate medical local Bill yes I will make that motion to proceed I think it's a great thing um St Lucy County did a great job and um we have some a great team working on it so I'll make a motion to approve that a second yeah any other comments one more commissioner heard um and to add that to our legislative priorities that'll come back at the meeting after the there's a motion in a second all those in favor I opposed that motion passes unanimously thank you thank you next is we to 10:30 preset but let's take it up anyway if the people are here to present item number uh Department 5 see okay I don't see they're not here yet we'll take we'll take up uh up public hearing one until our department Five Personnel arrive right is it consultant here see someone scurrying in oh you see just coming right okay good morning come come forward Mr farmer right yes where would you like me anywhere you like good morning good morning um I'm Jim Gordon the Public Works director with me I have David farmer he's with uh Metro forecasting models um we've used his hard to hear you oh sorry we've used his company in the past to do some growth model to determine uh future growth and in this instance we are looking at um specifically the um need for a fire station in the Palm City Farms area to serve the uh New Field development um and and other development that's occurring out there but we're also uh taking the opportunity to look at two other stations that are um that um could be improved as far as their location so um with that I'm going to have uh David uh um kick off his presentation so good okay yeah it's a PDF all right oh it's the PDF not the slides okay good morning uh just to reintroduce myself uh I Am David farmer the CEO of Metro forecasting models uh we only work for governments like yourselves so there's never a question about where the data or where the the ideas are coming from uh my partner is Dr Paul Van Busker who spent 50 years developing our our interactive growth model for projects just like this so uh we just did the introductions uh I'm going to start uh when I was in college we went over the uh The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People one of that was begin with the end in mind and so with that in mind uh we're going to start by just sort of giving you the answer the key findings from that and then lead you through the data that led us to those findings I also want to preface all this by saying that this analysis was done through the lens of efficiency and that's only 1% respective in one lens and there may be other options that maybe need to look at um we're also going to go through the population housing forecast because right as we have more people we need more things more facilities well then go through the methodology hey how did you decide you know what was going to be looked at and how you going to measure these things to determine what the future might look like then we'll go through calls of service and existing uh station response times and show you whether there are some uh challenges and then again we'll then use our methodology to forecast those future calls for service service show you the proposed locations a drive time analysis and then go through some level of service that again led us to our findings I'm happy to go into as much detail as you want or to be as brief as you'd like you guys please just indicate so again beginning with the answers so uh as or if you increase densities uh those uh those would directly impact and create higher calls for service right because if I have something that's zoned for one unit per 20 acres and now we change that zoning to more housing more people well I'm going to have more calls for service as a result from that I'm prefacing that with then this study is based on only known projects uh for future densities and future um uh housing units so uh in the end the calls for service and the demands lead to an indication that we need a new station uh in the western Palm City area largely to serve the Newfield projects agtech and Martin Commons uh also based on analysis um and res about uh uh tropical Farm Station 22 that is today located in a very residential neighborhood and the the fire station only takes up a couple of the Lots in there and when they start off their calls and stuff in the morning they go through this whole procedure it's it can be noisy and and uh uh um you can understand why neighbors might not want to live to next next to yes you want a fire station nearby uh but you may not want to have it going you know every single morning uh year after year uh in addition by relocating that station we're going to show you how we think that we're going to have an enhanced coverage area and so we're not losing anything where we're gaining by removing that that station from the neighborhood setting and yet increasing the overall capacity to serve uh and then uh we call for the relocation of of Indiantown that station is old it's it's it's small by today's standards what we need and we'd like to get that station closer uh to um uh to the projects that are evolving there in the Indian town area so those are sort of the findings and answers I okay to go all right all right so as far as housing units go well as I said as more houses are developed and more people show up we there's an incremental increase and at some point you reach a point where well we now we need more stations uh when we did the analysis for you originally in 2021 looking at just a broad brush of your of your fire stations we found that you have a fire station for about to every 14 to 15,000 people and so that's not a hard number but it's a rough indicator of as I add more people I I need more things such as fire stations and so we can see that since 2020 when we first started working for you you've added about 2700 housing units and between now and 2040 uh we think you're going to add another 9,000 housing units uh we use the code 995 to indicate the buildout condition which is think of it forever from now and forever from now you're going to be adding a total of about 26,000 housing units now that again envisions all known projects in Stewart and within the unincorporated Martin County um but it does not contemplate any major land use changes if you will so from housing if we follow the Bieber method the housing in method we have population so we applied the demographics spatially so we know they're accurate and so here by 2030 uh we think you're going to be adding 10,000 more residents and by 2040 another 20,000 I bring up that 20,000 because remember about every 15,000 people people I need another fire stations this is part of the reason why we're saying needs new stations and of course the relocations themselves all right so how did you come up with all these answers well we went through 126,000 calls for service over a 5-year period we an analyze those existing calls and not only how many but where they were and sort of what type they were and which ones were meeting level of service criteria and which ones were not so uh the target rate for the Martin County fire rescue is about 90 or 90% of the calls should be answered in less than 8 minutes that is the the urban version the rural version is uh uh 20 minutes calls be answered 90% of them within a 20 minute time period and urban or rural meaning outside the urban Services boundary we did Identify some calls that uh had some unique coding in them and by working with the fire professionals we were able to determine that those calls were canceled and so since they weren't real calls we pulled those out of the data so we're only working with actual calls that were people needed to help with their services to forecast the future calls for a service we analyzed your existing land uses and the existing calls to find relationships between those and I've got some tables where I can show you how we identifi those first here's your existing fire stations wow it's a lot of data a lot of table uh so here uh We've listed out the fire stations and we can see that at the bottom if I can Mo this mouse here so you see the 118,000 so we had the 126,000 but we had the calls that were canceled this is now so the 118 is the net the actual real calls that we analyzed uh if we look at all calls without regard to where whether it's Urban or rural we found that about 78% of the calls overall are are within the 8 Minute criteria but again I'm stressing that's the entire County uh less than city of Stewart where city of store was not included in this analysis but Martin County's fire system was so now if we move to the just inside the the urban Services District so if we have 118,000 total about about 111,000 of those are actually within the USD and when we look at just that we see that the overall average is that 94% of the calls so 94 94% of those calls are within the USD and uh and and 82% of those were answered in 8 minutes or less which again is critical uh for uh life-saving efforts when we then move to looking outside the urban Services District uh we see that that's about 6% of your total calls and of those 93% were met within the 20-minute criteria like I said there is a lot going on here is there any any questions about this table and we can come back to it if you'd like but uh while you're thinking so at the bottom there's a important thing I want to call out here that so the median number of calls answered by your fire stations in this 5year period is 8,000 that's going to be an important number I want to bring up later to show you why we think these stations are needed when they're needed and where they're needed so here's a here's a look at all the calls for service the the different colors break up the different fire stations so you can see which ones there's a little Legend on the on the left hand side so there's all the calls and then we said okay these are just the calls inside the USD and then the calls just outside the USD so uh here is where we took your existing uh um stations and we ran a drive time analysis even though we already had data on each one of the fire stations and which ones are me being met at what time periods uh we ran this so we could sort of estimate what we'd call your coverage area your service area if you will and you'll see that that red circle there in the center that is the the new field area and so you can sort of see it falls completely outside of 23 and so that's a leading indicator of well it's not within anyone's service area for an 8 minute uh drive time which means there's there's probably need in that location but we'll get into that more as we look at the actual data so here is uh the top we have Western Palm City so this is where we uh we identified a tract um on 714 there and and then we ran the drive time analysis and we found that it would it would encapsulate all of Newfield plus help cover the agtech area plus uh uh Martin Commons in the area South there uh those rural type areas so a nice coverage we like the fact that this doesn't reach largely outside of the city because we actually ran an analysis by putting a fire station inside a new field and when we did half of the service area was actually outside the county which again from a efficiency standpoint didn't make sense and so that's why we've located the station down in this in this area uh again I'll go to the more easy one here so Indian town we can see that uh We've now established a new service uh area where they 8 minute drive time area and we can see that it it does a great job of covering of uh the the lands within the Indian town as well as the proposed projects that are uh coming online at this point in time the more complicated is Station 22 so for Station 22 we actually had that's a tropical Farms we had two options there we had uh one line of thinking was well we have this industrial park and we have 30 acres in there well what if we put it back in there uh because again it has great access it already has a light or will have a light has utilities and all of that and then the other uh uh line of thinking was um uh near um bulldog because as project emerg in that we you know in that general area we have the Publix that was approved back in I think 2021 or so uh we have projects coming online in that area and so that might make sense too and and while they both cover tropical Farms still so that's a good thing we can see that by looking at the two different hatchings the two different colors that that the the the one that in the uh in the industrial park provides more coverage to the west and the one uh on Bulldog um does more to the east including the discovery project if you will and here's where we just merg those same shapes with the existing drive time so we can see how we're now covering doing a good job of covering the area where we have existing calls and we're expecting a lot of future calls especially for uh the Newfield area so breaking this down when we look at the Western Palm City aka the future Newfield area today we have just under, 1500 homes there that's existing along with 60,000 ft of of commercial building area and then just over 2 .1 million square ft of industrial area and that area when we count up the calls within that coverage area is about 3,500 calls just under 3600 um then we look at the two different tropical farms and you can see um the existing housing units don't change very much because again most of the existing housing UNS are in that tropical Farm area um I'm bringing saying that now because when we go to the Future the Futures look a little bit different and uh so the existing commercial and existing uh industrial is virtually the same for uh either way for the relocated tropical farms uh 22 uh and then for a total of about 7,713 calls uh for service so remember we said the median number of calls was right around 8,000 but again this is the existing condition today uh when we look at Indian town uh there's uh 2200 existing housing units a couple hundred, squet of commercial and just under 600,000 ft of industrial and they have about 5700 calls at this point in time so this gets back into our methodology so now we're forecasting we said okay we looked at the existing housing units the calls for service and all of that and what we found was that your your average residential unit produces about just over um 83 calls for service uh in in a 5-year period and then we found that for your commercial industrial uh for your per thousand square feet we wanted to make a metric we could identify with it's about 6 calls per thousand for commercial and about less than point 0.1 calls for industrial this is important because as in a Newfield I think we have 4 million square F feet or 3 million square feet of future industrial that can come online we have the a tech certainly those will have some Call of service and we're using this to help estimate what those impacts might be I know this is a wall sorry but we wanted to have enough tables on the same screen so you wouldn't have to go back and forth what did he say again so starting with the top table um so the last time I showed you a table like this it had the only existing housing init what this is is only the future not the existing this is just the future thing so in the future Western Palm city has the capacity to have about just under 4,900 future homes about 4,200 of those are in Newfield the rest are in vacant lots that are platted and can be developed we see another at least 2.1 million square ft of of commercial area coming and uh another U almost 3 and a. half million square F feet of industrial in that uh in that service area that includes Newfield not all of that industrial space is Newfield some of it is is agtech and some of the other things now looking again out tropical Farms you see again they're very similar in terms of what they're adding uh if we go to location B on Bulldog uh that's adding about 700 more homes than than the relocated site that's in the industrial park um same amount of commercial 1.3 or 1.3 of commercial and just over 2.5 just under 2.6 of industrial uh for tropical farms and then going to Indian town we are seeing uh just south of 7,000 additional housing units being added there in the service area with 1.4 million square feet of of commercial and just under 8 million square F feet of industrial space so table seven so that middle table there is now we take and we've taken that data I just gave you and now we use our methodology to project calls onto that and so you can I don't have to read them all off to but you can see that they're adding calls for the housing units or adding calls for the projected commercial and the projected industrial and the and the real the key one is that last Callum that's the total calls for service from future development not including anything existing today finally on the bottom of the slide is where we're trying to combine it all together we take okay here's the existing uh calls for service adding our projected calls for service to get a total call for service and as you see we're at over 9,000 uh for for Western Palm City and tropical Farms the Mr former can I interrupt you there's a question from commissioner Heather yes I on your table when you're when you're you're talking about units so you're calculating it per unit how do you take into account that there are some non-residential units so transient I95 that kind of how cuz this this seems like it would be skewed data because there are a lot more people coming through Martin County than actual units so that's so what we could have done so this was done and not being defensive in a very conservative fashion and you're absolutely right what's not on this is traffic accidents right we didn't say well because we couldn't really tie that to a housing I didn't want to tie it to a housing unit but in fact a fair number of your calls if you look if you let me give you go back so you look at outside the USD most of those are traffic accidents and so we didn't scale those up per se but you're absolutely right as Martin grows and as the counties to the North and South grow and more people commute through Martin County or to Martin County we're going to see more car accidents so these calls that I'm telling you I think are a conservative low number they could likely be higher how high I don't know so but how how are we measuring that data because you're you're just basing this on units soal into account the other calls for service or or or that you you you've based that on 08 units how are we taking into account the the inflow of traffic and we've got a million and a half people or more now to the South and a growing you know County to the north North right there's there's a lot of calls that are just strictly passing through so I that point8 it seems like that's going to be a skewed data point well it's if it skews it's going to skew to the low end of things right because that's not including the those those traffic accidents so we're we're applying that we we took all the residential calls and then divided that by the residential units we took all the commercial calls and divided that by the residential square feet we took all the industrial calls or wound up at an industrial location and divided that by to come up with those factors what's left out there's two two major things that are left out um one is alfs now we don't have any forecasted new alfs at least when we did the study uh I will tell you um I don't if I say it's the wrong thing or not you have a lot of Falls and a lot of calls that are dedicated that like I think it was like 13 to 14% of your calls I is is your firefighters going to private facilities to pick people up that have fallen down that's also not included any of our forecasting because we're taking the background U um the background calls for service we're taking that we're holding that constant so if there's an Alf that's all counted in but we don't project any future alfs for this we don't project future traffic accidents because of this again trying to be conservative we didn't want to be a we didn't want to be uh overstating the need for a public facility as expensive as a fire station I didn't mean if I I didn't mean to talk in circles no I we I'll come back to it then okay so so none of the traffic accidents were averaged in with the housing units that's a separate number all by itself we I think we can address that at the end the amount of volume of that those kind of calls okay thank you very good and yeah so for between 9 and 12,000 calls uh more than the 8,000 that justifies a new station itself and so uh an additional step to this that we thought is and this is where we are doing some actual real forecasting because the truth is there's a lot of unintended consequences you know we build a new station how will the old stations interact with the new stations we're we're using a lot of Science and Math and and GIS spatial analysis but in the end who gets what call and how does it go that's going to Bear out when these stations are actually built but we did our best to try to say well how will these stations change so based on the table 8 from the slide we put up above here so we have existing Palm City at today uh 21 which I haven't mentioned before but that has just under 21 just under 21,000 calls and you can look at the data all the way across there it uh looks like uh especially for the the 8 minutes uh about 77% of the calls are met in 8 minutes and the calls outside that's largely going down 714 um that 94% or M in uh in 20 minutes or less when the new assuming Western Palm City's per is built developed uh to service the new field and surrounding industrial projects we believe that new Palm City will then drop down to about 177,000 calls uh meaning that now 100% of the of their calls are now within the USD uh because that we envision the new tropical Farms or the new Palm Western Palm City to pick up all of those that were are in the uh uh the rural area outside the USD at this point in time there's a fair number of those calls in fact there's uh at least 3550 four those calls in the new Western Palm City so you see that the math the two stations add up together right now but we're trying to say okay this is what would go to one station versus versus another to be honest they and talking about fire professionals here but on day one before pal if if it comes before a new field is developed it's conceivable that Western Palm City would also Aid new Palm City as well and try to bring their call their their response times down even further to enhance enhance that level of service if we move over to now tropical farms uh so today that's station has 8,000 calls um and if we relocate they'll drop to about 7,000 and you might say well what is this this took me about 4 hours to dig into this statea none of these numbers are easy but that's actually station 23 there's an interface between Station 22 and 23 and we think that when the station's relocated that that 23 will will capture more of their calls that are within their 8 minute drive time and that will allow for the new Station 22 to serve more of the of the the Southern and and eastern and western areas so while it drops drops initially from 8,000 to 7,000 um uh as we um uh well anyway we think it's again this is the the today condition we go across here and we can see that the calls for service the the level of service we talk about so it has it's 70 right now Station 22 is meeting its 8 Minute criteria 74% of time that's going to go up between 86 and 87 you know uh what is that a 133% increase in in level of service that's a a good thing and then we see even outside the USD that we think that they'll be able to make 100% of their calls within within the the 20-minute time frame again will that be true depends on how bad the car accident is how many accidents happen at one time what calls we do think this was not done lightly this was a lot of thought and and energy was put into presenting you with a reasonable likely scenario how these calls will actually shake out uh so um by by providing a station in Western Palm City it'll improve station 21's ability uh to meet their level of service uh their their their goals and also to capture uh you know the Newfield a tech and Martin commins developments and provide better uh more responsive service to those existing um land owners there as well as the future people that are going to be living in uh in the Newfield project for tropical Farms Station 22 that relocation is going to enhance the quality of life for the people that today have a fire station right next door to their home it'll it'll help by removing that it'll also uh help uh uh increase the level of service of the area provided enhanced more area and uh and also increase the level of service by that 12% in ability to meet that 8 Minute criteria I just said a few minutes ago and Indian town is going to help uh uh by moving there we're going to have a more updated facility where we've outgrown the one we have today we need a larger facility and it'll be uh easier to service projects such as Terell Lago and so forth uh also the identified location we believe is also uh friendly in terms of surrounding development and it's more compatible as well there's your final map uh well sort of final map we have the two um Station 22 this is we're coming to you for today not only for your input but for some uh some assistance on you know which one is there a feeling for or a different location like I said this perspectus this this this perspective uh was presented in terms of a what's the most efficient use of tax dollars to provide the maximum benefit that's only one perspective there are others and we're happy to look at that too so the data clearly shows that we need a a a uh station in Western Palm City uh the station's relocated for tropical Farms is going to increase service area and reduce compatibility issues and of course relocate the station indan town for the um reasons I stated previously uh these stations are going to expand the area improve the level of service and um and we're looking for your input uh if you care to on Station 22 and a preference our perspective uh from the people's side of things and that is hope I didn't talk too fast I want to be respectful of your time but happy to talk about any number in any one of these slides questions for Mr farmer commissioner caps yes uh in my study of things uh you know in addition to response times which is really the big issue here a secondary issue has to do with insurance rates for homeowners I understand that if you're beyond 5 miles from a station you pay a good bit higher insurance rates for your house and wondered if anybody has any uh data on how much more people have to pay if if they're beyond five miles good morning fire chief Martin County fire rescue Chad Chuli um good morning everyone and I just first I just want to say this I want to thank Mr Farmer for his extensive research that he had before I answer your question um there was a lot of data that he put in this but it's important the data is there because it means it's fact-based information to answer your question directly um it it varies depending on your distance so if you're greater than 5 miles and they don't care the insurance company if it is 5.1 miles or it is 20 miles away it could be triple the rate of what a normal homeowner would pay within that F mile range so it is a tremendous impact to the taxpayer um what this study defines is the level of service and the 8 Minute response time that 8 Minute response time is not embedded with a five minute or excuse me a five mile road time does that make sense so there's kind of two different things but if if you can just give me a minute if you don't mind what I would like to do is just for public consumption is to break his study down into a one sheeter easy to understand for the general public simplistic terms because I want the public to truly understand what we're doing here today and what the need is so first I'm going to recap just a little bit of what Mr farmer did and he did a very very thorough job when we're talking to the community we talk about level of service level of service means when you have a 911 call and we're responding to your emergency it's how quick we can make it to your emergency so we talk about two different areas when it comes to level of service we talk about inside the urban service district and we talk about outside the urban service District we're supposed to inside I'm going to use USD just to shorten my terminology for urban service District inside the USD we have up to 8 minutes to respond to your emergency outside the USD we have up to 20 minutes to respond to your emergency we're supposed to do this 90% of the time this is defined in our comp plan so that is our Target and that is what the comp plan defines for us so what he has identified as this holistically looking at the entire County and Martin County fire rescue inside the USD we are underperforming we are at 82% we're supposed to be at 90% so why are we at 82% well I have two outlying reasons that he already talked about and I just want to Hash it out again one is Western Palm City Station 21 Palm pal city is located on map road right now if I looked at their numbers just in Palm City they are underperforming at 77% they should be at 90% why are they underperforming it's because they're having a difficult time due to the geography of that zone of 21 they cover 64 square miles one fire station perspective station 30 Port Sero busiest station in the county it covers 12 square miles one station Palm city is covering 64 square miles so we are struggling to meet the level of service inside the USD as well as outside the USD so that's why our concern is today's snapshot I'm telling you we're 77% the future snapshot that's been identified New Field already under development there's going to be over 4,000 units in that area alone the demand for the level of service is going to increase we have the future of agtec we have the future of Martin commins all happening in Western Palm City if we do not add an additional fire station and all this takes place in that 5-year snapshot then our number for level of service or percentage is going to drop even lower so we have to be proactive about it and just to reiterate my point already in Palm City Station 21 we already have extra vehicle in that station to respond to the demand of the public already and we're still underperforming at 74% so that's one reason it's bringing that whole number down countywide reason number two tropical Farms tropical Farms is just basically what Mr farmer has stated it is a fire station embedded inside a residential Community the problem with that is it's the drive time from that station to a main roadway like caner Highway way to get those trucks up to Optimal speed when they have an emergency out of Station 22 tropical Farms it's going to take them up to 2 minutes to get to canner Highway why because it's a residential Community many families there many kids at play driveways coming off that road the road roadway does not have shoulders for cars to pull over so the trucks have to be extremely conservative responding to the call I just told you I have 8 minutes to respond to an emergency I'm losing two just to get out to a main roadway we feel if we take that station relocate that station put it on a main roadway like caner Highway then I'm going to save those two minutes they respond to an emergency they're immediately on the roadway and we get up to Optimal speed to respond to that emergency those are the two areas that I feel like have dropped that level of service to meet 90% of the time that would benefit the community number three this is different this is Indian town this isn't about the level of service it's about where the station is located currently Indian toown station 24 Indian Town's going through a lot of growth right now and in Indiantown where they are currently located is in a governmental multi-use type facility it is not a standalone Fire Station Indian town we have a lot of resources out there the reason is if they have brush fires if they have structure fires um high level extrication calls due to these heavy heavy vehicle accidents that happen out there on a routine basis their closest backup station is greater than 20 minutes so we have a lot of assets located in that one facility problem is we can't has them inside the facility because we've exploded beyond the capability of what that facility is meaning all this expensive equipment that we have and I mean they are expensive we're putting outside exposed to the elements on a daily basis we're not getting the true lifespan and we're losing money because of that and it's not conducive to that however because there's development out there in Indiantown there is a neighborhood right now over 2,000 units there are a developer has already talked about offering some land for a standalone fire station which would be located on 609 which is a good location because it still helps with that level of service there but the Standalone station will help we can grow with that Community but what we're looking to do is this we're hoping if you accept the study here where we know we're going to plant future fire stations what we want to do is negotiate with these developers and put the line share on the developers so when a developer comes to us and they say look we're going to give you land that's great land is expensive however building a fire station is not cheap and what we're looking for is to truly negotiate with them and if you want to give us land great now you need to help us build a fire station and take this expense off the taxpayer and let them as their growth and the level in service increases it's on their back not on the taxpayers in town so that's what we're looking to do overall the Western Palm City station the one I didn't mention is the location that location that we chose optimal is by I95 Martin highway right now there is a steuart West Cobblestone neighborhood they are I'm telling I responded myself to different house fires out there brush fires Medical IAL calls it is greater than a 20-minute response to certain areas of that neighborhood that neighborhood has been out there for a very very long time the station we want to do in Western Palm city is right at their front door that is going to really benefit not only that Community but all of Western Palm City and that future development so I don't want to get too long-winded and I don't want to get into the numbers because there's a lot out there but I just want to give a brief explanation for the public so I'll stop here if you have any questions more than Happ answer continue commissioner caps any more questions well I you know I would like a little more explanation about existing versus projected uh you know uh how how urgent is the problem right now in Western Palm City like compared you know we know all this new development is coming and um speak just a little bit more about how urgent it is right now so like I said our comp plan defines that inside the USD we have to respond within 8 minutes of time 90% of the time at this particular station in Palm City we're only hitting that at 77% 7 77% of the time the urgency is today it's because of the geography of that zone 64 square miles compared to a station that covers 12 square miles and that station I'm talking about is the busiest station in the county the 12 square miles Palm city is the second busiest it's because it is such a broad area for one fire station to cover they are struggling to cover I have two rescues in that station to meet the demand of Palm City I can't put a third rescue in that station it doesn't make sense because my drive time is off I can put five rescues in there we're still going to have an issue it's about the location of an additional station in Western pal city does that answer your question mhm if if money were not an object and you already had the land how long would it take to put the fire station in place so we got the green light today and we said go build the station you got everything you need it would on a good day a good time frame we're at almost three years of time and Newfield is already started Construction in fact when we met with their developer my understanding is their residential homes some of them are going vert within a 12month period of time and interesting you brought up that 5 Mile um question in Insurance there are parts of Newfield which is inside the USD that if we did nothing today and Station 21 Palm City covered Newfield that there is the back part of that the northern side of Newfield we would go beyond the five miles meaning someone would go in there buy a home and then when they go for their home owners insurance they would find out they're greater than 5 miles and and their homeowners insurance would be through the roof so optimistically you know this fire station is going to be more than three years away probably four or five years away perhaps or uh like you know we already it's it's going to be quite a bit of time before before we could even get it right if we started today three years if we start next year four years so yes that's accurate that's all thank commissioner Vargas yes hi I have a couple of questions I've looked at your charts the maps I understand what you're asking us here how much does the fire station cost that's a great question so that's a number we've been chasing because it just seems to go up and up and up if we just talk about brick and mortar we're probably where's Matt 10 million roughly n to10 million in today's dollars understand that but in addition to the station and the land purchase we talked about donation you have to staff and you also have equipment and storage is that what I'm understanding so what does that cost to staff the station and Equipment talking fire station equipment and Personnel to complement the station itself because we don't have the Personnel for an additional station you're talking probably close to a number more like 15 million so that's staff and Equipment yes ma'am and building uh so building the station we have 9 million plus you have an additional 15 million above that that's inclusive inclusive correct okay now the other thing is um you talk about you talk about uh tropical farms and the necessity and there may be some overlap from the existing station will that is that true so station 23 which is located on caner Highway near Indian Street that's station has some overlap with Station 22 tropical Farms if we pull that station out and it does bump a little bit towards the West we have 23 which is that caner Highway station it can cover where 22 would would have been their old Zone it can capture where they're moving a little bit in other words people that are being serviced with that level of service in that area would not be negatively impacted where we locate the new station okay and then you have another station that's closer to the county line South station 36 is the county line South yes all right now back to the developers I understand Newfield is close to Palm City U excuse me Port St Lucy so in other words we're talking about a station that would service to the South to the north of this development West and East we're laying it out there Indian Town you touched on it also about the development of Terell Lago willing to donate the land are they willing to build a station well if if I can walk into a room and negotiate it I I'll let you know but I'm looking at Lisa because I don't want to get out of my Lane now um but it it's something that I believe needs to be negotiated okay because you know it's fine to build a development but I don't know why the commission has not in the past insisted that the developer also contribute or make whole a station U impact fees any suggestions that we can use for the future the only suggestion I can make from my position is it takes more than land to make a fire station happen and that's a lot to put on the taxpayers as we grow I'm all about the developer but that's not an area that I'm really responsible for yes because I think that's something that we definitely want to lean on I agree I mean this is necessary We cannot put any more on the taxpayers back they're making a lot of money on these developments therefore they should as an inducement say hey we're going to do this for Martin County and for the citizenry yes ma'am I agree um so the developers do pay impact fees that help us fund fire station so Newfield for example um after their 30-year buildout will have paid in the better part of about $7 million in Impact fees for fire the problem we have is that we get that over a 30-year period and the need for a fire station is probably sooner is definitely sooner than that so um that's stuff that we can work on at a staff level to see if we can try to um uh get that money sooner um or or find other ways to to fund it the other the other piece I just wanted to touch on here is that this is really a planning document that's going to help us to determine where general vicinities of where the fire station should be we're not today talking about a CIP sheet we're not asking you to fund these stations we're just asking that you let us know if you agree with the proposed location so we can start to negotiate with developers Andor uh other land owners to see if that's the right place that we we want to start um planning a new station if I may uh answer a question that commissioner Heatherton had a little bit ago about motor vehicle collisions I just did a sent out a a nice text um um real quick just simple from 2019 to 2023 our motor vehicle accidents have increased by 12.5% so we're running roughly just under 2,000 vehicle accidents a year is kind of where we sit today but that number yes it does increase commissioner heatherington and that number increases regardless of residential units so there could be so much pass through so I'm just going to give my my brief rundown on the recommendations recommendations you've asked for on the three components number one I I believe that data and I I believe it's conservative as far as Western Martin County because as growing up out there and following I've seen fire trucks coming you know out going out to Martin grade if you think you respond from 21 or 24 and you go all the way out to the western part of the county and then you have to transport someone all the way back in to the eastern part of the county I think now is the time we we probably need to set and have an agenda item come back as soon as possible to figure out how to financially plan um and pay for the Western Palm City station I believe that's that's priority we need to get that done in three years or less if possible I think I think we could get it done in three years or less you're shaking your head yeah I'm shaking my head and then on the um the tropical Farm station I think the best location um alternative would be on caner Highway in the public works um facility because you could then um track down caner you could hit um out bulldog and Southfork and up around bridge and then you could also come in to the I guess be to the east so that would be my um pref reference for location for the tropical Farm station and then as far as Indian town we talked about this yesterday I'm happy to see that it's not moving far from the existing 24 that that station has not grown in many many many years I think I wrote a newspaper article when I was first out of college and 24 was about the same size that it was it is now and in the same location as well so um I would love to see that we address the interlocal agreement with Indian town so that we have a really good assessment of how what we're going to be responding for of the county and is the village of Indiantown committing to partnering with us because I think that that might be key first to um establish a a long-term interlocal agreement with and then site the station um for Indian town so those would be all my preferences and I I would including in these recommendations like to see something and agenda item come back soon to financially plan for Western Palm City Commissioner campy thank you good morning I appreciate your uh information Chief you know how I feel about fire rescue we have had meetings with you all prior to this this meeting um I agree with both strong points that commissioner heatherington made you have to factor in 95 in the turnpike because yes your your criteria is all unit residential unit based but those are you know the two busiest roads in the United States or one two of them they're also extremely dangerous for our Personnel to respond uh for those so that has to be factored the Western station it's interesting for folks that remember all the way out on the Martin grade there's an old uh derelict fire station so I don't even know when it closed maybe 20 25 years ago imagine that back then the County residents assumed that they needed to have fire uh Rescue Services out in way Western Martin County when the County's population was so much smaller than it is now and for years it hasn't been so I think it's long overdue as commissioner heatherington said um to commissioner vargas's point about developers and and uh business people participating they're all willing to do that there's been no no discussion to the contrary uh so yes I think that uh the most recent developments on Martin Highway I've had conversations with them as well they're more than willing to participate not just potentially in the donation of the the property but understanding completely uh that you can't just have the lot in terms of tropical Farms I think having it in the neighborhood I don't know what the mindset was back then but it's always been in the center of a neighborhood uh which makes it very difficult to pull the trucks out either way that you could get to caner moving it to out of the neighborhood makes perfect sense Bulldog I think is too far uh and then in terms of moving it to potential the property that we currently have within that Industrial Park the county purchased that property and at the time Mr Donaldson it's it's what 30 Acres MH and chief you would need appropriately for future visioning what would you think is the right number for your requirements a minimum of Seven Acres okay so I don't understand how if we needed 30 acres for the maintenance and the and that portion of our operation for Public Works that we would shave off seven of 30 for your that to me so the only thing you could do then is buy more purchasing more when there is opportunities I believe for developmental donations uh along that Corridor so give us a little bit more time I've entered into initial just just conversations with folks about hey would you participate and the response has been terrific so that one I let's have a little more time time on that one I think that will address not having to write a check for land when when we don't need to uh Indian town has always been the the the case out there that it needed to be more and you've done an excellent job in terms of putting personnel and Equipment out there to address the situation but it's still 20 plus miles out of town I would want to make sure and I know you will that when you do negot neate with Terell Argo whoever else the land owners out there if it's seven and in the future it needs to be 10 then let's try to get it while we can uh up front and then also build a facility like you said they have unique set of circumstances in Indian Town the largest industrial uh businesses in our County are based out there this within this calendar year there was a fire at FPL uh we did did hear that a lot of that fire um defense was your guys so the concept well FP will handle on their own I'm pretty sure we found out they won't uh all due respect to them we have to be prepared for that and if as Indian Town grows and they try to develop more of an industrial presence out there it will be us that does that so if we are going to do which I agree we need to let's plan for 10 15 20 years in into the future don't take a 5 acre piece of property that soon afterwards we be like oh should have been 10 so uh and I agree finally with commissioner heatherington that especially for the Western Palm City one and Beyond Newfield which will develop in a low slowly there's been steuart Western Cobblestone residents and residents that live out on towards the Martin grade have been begging for this for decades and it's finally appropriate now between the balance of new development all of those existing residents that would not have triggered their own station now finally even when we were discussing that Martin um the project across from Stuart Westing and Cobblestone one of the advantages of them moving across the street is they'll get the things that they could never have gotten otherwise thank you Mrs chair Madam chair um the analysis for the the Western Palm City uh fire station illustrates perfectly why we should not put Urban facilities outside the urban service boundary because those those Urban facilities are so ridiculously expensive to provide in a small geographic area when you stick them out in the middle of Western Martin County they become astronomically expensive and we're proposing to build a fire station at taxpayer expense in order to serve new developments that are so far far from our Urban core uh freestanding urban service boundaries which are are irresponsible uh and we're supposed to pick up the price for new development this is development not paying for itself again and again and again we have to recognize that it is dangerous and foolish and Reckless and irresponsible to put Urban Development where it doesn't belong and that's what this analysis is all about I have no interest in having the taxpayers pick up the bill for ill-conceived projects that were approved by former boards and as far as as Indian Town goes you know maybe maybe they need a new fire station maybe they don't but at any rate the the demographic that's driving that is ter Lago let them pay if they need if they're if they're creating a capacity uh in inadequacy let them pay to resolve the be inadequacy you know so I I I have no interest in proceeding with any of these plans for the foreseeable future commissioner campy the assumption would be that any development that's happening industrial or otherwise that happens as commissioner herd says outside the urban service District that they don't pay any taxes that they just show up there just there there for free they'll pay in millions and millions of dollars in taxes you know we can get into a debate on what should happen where the last time this conversation came up the project that's out by 95 the exit and entrance to 95 which is 162 Acres uh where trucks would come and go from the property within 750 ft of one of the busiest roads commissioner herd's strategy of putting all of those projects within the urban service boundary we would fill the room as we will today on a gas station on the corner imagine a million square foot industrial park next to your neighborhood imagine so where do you put these tax bases uh this is one of our biggest disagreements is I think locating it along that Corridor is the perfect spot we will disagree respectfully with each other as colleagues but it's not like those people are going to build those facilities and not pay any money they will generate tens of millions of dollars worth of taxes we've already heard that none of the people that are involved in the development have said anything but yes they would participate in donations of land in potentially as I had only heard recently that there is an expectation that the developers would pay to physically build the buildings and to commissioner heatherington excuse me heard when she says she has no interest in building anything out there tell that to the people that live at Stewart West and Cobblestone and the people that live West out there that they should get nothing they've been paying taxes for decades and decades and so we just say to them whether a new field happen or not there's been a conversation about a western Palm city fire station for years but it was a non-starter b we couldn't have done it we everyone would have paid for that now that Newfield or potentially Ashley Capital has shown up those folks now can see a light at the end of the tunnel uh for what they have wanted all along and yes I understand the advantages of lowering your taxes or your home insurance how about the human cost of how long does it take if your loved one is having a heart attack and they got to come from Palm City or an Indian town if you're the second heart attack in the same morning or the third emergency in the same morning in Indian Town whether that terago which is a Indiantown Village project whether that never happened or not you don't want to live in indianwood and have a heart attack and wait can you imagine 20 minutes 20 minutes feels like 5 hours when you're looking at a loved one in trouble so I am still in favor of this and hopefully for your sake and our community's sake we'll get three Commissioners that agree that it's appropriate that we continue to look to the Future for fire rescue thank you Ashley Capital was approved by the majority board in the last meeting of that majority board's tenure and they did a PUD that was the opportunity that they had to provide a public benefit of a fire station I didn't see one in that PUD there's nothing about a fire station commissioner Vargas yes uh did Newfield donate land or Capital to build a fire station nope U no Newfield did not donate land they did contemplate um donating land um but as as we spoke the analysis demonstrated that it's a little too far north in the in our community and the service area would actually be in Port St Lucy rather than in Martin County so the Newfield area really doesn't fit um what we need as a Community we really need to be a little bit further south and and West if we want our service area to cover Martin County rather than the adjacent County to the north but they um did not um donate land specifically right I understand that but they were given the green light to build this development which is huge um they certainly had the pockets to purchase land and build the fire station and again um to our chair chair woman uh her points are valid I mean we are allowing these developments to come through don't know why the previous board did not put their foot down and say wait a moment here you want to make millions and millions and millions of dollars yes I know they'll be paying taxes I understand that but that's over many years you said we need a station within three to four years to save lives for calls for the citizens that are depending on us I mean that that's a valid point we really need to think about this so you know I I I the other thing that I have a question about is the interlocal agreement between Indian Town what would be an ideal timeline for that Mr Donaldson yeah so um uh as was um suggested uh we would not recommend um uh embarking on the construction of a new station there without having a long-term agreement with IND in town on the on the service of fire there right now we have a an agreement that um has five years um and so I think we would want a a longer term you know 20 plus year type of agreement before we invested um in a fire St station that serves their Community we would still even if they embarked upon um um developing their own fire rescue service we would still be responsible for W Mark County uh out to the lake so our location of a Ser station would likely be different so that that interlocal agreement would is critical for the future planning of of a station in Indiantown all right so not unreasonable 30 years 40 years that type of thing and we could revisit that so what we're doing today is say okay we see the study we see the maps we we've heard everything you said yes we've met with you before this board meeting so what you want to to do is pursue locations and then come back to us and present your findings and at that point we can agree or not agree is that what I'm understanding yes commissioner all we're really seeking is input on um on potential area or locations I think the uh um you've heard staff recommend that their priority station is Western Martin County uh uh Western Palm City um uh station uh with your feedback back um we would then um uh identify potential locations and meet with you and we would not um it would not become an official if you will until there was an adopted CIP we usually review this Capital Improvement plans in in March um and we anticipate that uh one or more of these would be discussed again then uh and again we wouldn't um the actual expense towards um planning any one of these wouldn't be done until the board officially um approves a capital Improvement plan sheet um whether it's for the acquisition of land or for any portion of the project so at this point this is simply a planning study showing the the three areas of of need the benefits of doing something in each one of these three areas and we just simply need today is uh um is there do you agree with the priority uh of looking in Palm City and the the other pieces would be uh if you have any suggestions on on the location and you don't need to provide a suggestion on location today either you can just simply accept this and uh and of course there'll be numerous meetings to before uh any one of these three are are resolved thank you commissioner heatherington um Chief I wanted to clarify I wrote down so did you say uh Western Palm City 77% of the time I wrote down 77% of the time we're meeting the 8 Minute level of service standard that's correct what what does our comprehensive plan dictate that we meet it what it dictates is we have to meet it within eight minutes inside the urban service District 90% of the time and we're only doing it 77% of the time in that area and that's inside so so that that's that's the existing so we're meeting today without you know Newfield or um Mar mon moner what Ashley Capital um all that we're meeting at 77% so we're in danger of being outside of what we've established as our comprehensive plan level of service today without any of that and I don't know what boards approved Stuart West and cap on night Newfield I wasn't here but for decades decades people in Western Martin County on Martin Highway have been asking begging have have seen their loved ones die on the side of that road we have to address this level of service I mean we have we we had people in this no in tears because how dangerous and how many people they've lost on the side of 710 that Western Maron county has to be a priority and this is not this is today's level of service before some of these um pre big developments like New Field that I don't care what board approved it we have to meet today's level of service without that coming online so we need to address that otherwise we're we're derel and our duty I think to protect our residents so I think we need to have something come back as soon as possible for that understood commissioner caps to accept yeah my question has to do with uh the possibility of securing land on 714 from the developer who recently got an approval for Martin Commerce Park it and and there's the possibility that maybe he would have some land that would benefit us in a major way I mean one of the biggest costs associated with the fire station is the land and uh there's this possibility that that he might have a parcel am I speaking to early on that no so we've had some preliminary discussions but we really needed to get board direction for this analysis to make sure that it was in the right location before we continued those discussion so really this is the precursor to to um you know working those details out okay commissioner campy motion to accept the report second any further discussion there's a motion and a second all those in favor I opposed opposed that motion passes 4 to one with her dissenting thank you we are now going to take a 10-minute break and then we're going to take up the Wawa agenda item e [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] he [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] n [Music] n [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] w [Music] [Music] I [Music] d [Music] d e e you're on thank you we're back live taking up uh public hearing quasi judicial number two which is a public hearing to request approval of the major final site plan for Wawa caner un locks um this is a quasi judicial uh hearing any EXP disclosures commissioner Vargas don't have to push your but already filed filed okay if I have any of their filed I have them and they've been filed I've had some and they've been filed I have some and they've been filed okay next I'm Rusty at this next thing the people who are going to be providing testimony please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by the clerk not public Raise Your Right hands do you swear or affirm the evidence you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and have you provided the necessary information to the clerk yes Affidavit of mailers were turned in at the LPA hearing and I'm submitting a copy of my work history in the agenda item to be filed as exhibit one excellent we can proceed with staff's presentation thank you madam chair good morning Commissioners I'm John Senate senior planner with growth management I'm presenting the Wawa unlocks major final site plan application this is a request by engineering design and construction on behalf of caner Investment Partners for approval of a major final site plan to construct an approximately 5,537 ft convenience store including 12 fueling stations and Associated infrastructure the subject site consists of an approximately 2.29 acre undeveloped parcel located the southwest corner of Southwest Locks Road and Southwest caner Highway in Stewart included is a request for a certificate of public facilities reservation the site is located uh approximately point7 miles Southwest of the I95 interchange and it's located just over half a mile east of the lock Road and tropical Avenue intersection the property is currently own zoned GC General commercial to the north of the property and the West we see the R2 zoning distri District which is a residential designation to the southwest of the property across caner Highway we see the LC limited commercial zoning District along with the r3a and A1 zoning districts and this PUD to the South is The Florida Club the future land use designation of the subject property is uh General commercial to the north and west we see the estate density to upupa Future land use designation and to the Southwest across caner Highway we see The Limited commercial future land use designation this application is for an approximately 5,537 ft convenience store including 12 fueling stations and Associated infrastructure the proposed use is consistent with the existing General commercial zonian district and The General commercial future land use Ingress egress is proposed from Southwest Locks Road and from Southwest caner Highway from uh Locks Road heading into the site that will be a right in only with a new turn lane proposed ESS egress onto Locks Road from the site will be a right out or left out from Southwest caner Highway heading into the site it'll be a right in or left in with new turn Lanes proposed on caner Highway and um leaving the site heading to caner Highway that will be a write out only as a condition of approval the owner is required to dedicate right of way along Southwest Locks Road and a 10-ft drainage easement along the western property boundary the required due diligence materials have been reviewed and approved by the real property division of Public Works this is the site plan you can see along the caner highway Frontage along the bottom part of this plan you can see the new right turn lane proposed and the new left turn lane proposed along the Locks Road Frontage you can see the new right turn lane proposed and again um left turns into the site from Locks Road are not permitted the development is subject to the article 4 division 20 commercial multif family and Industrial design standards of our code the applicant is requesting alternative compliance from certain commercial design Provisions for the right and the rear facades uh for the right and rear facades the applicant is requesting um alternative compliance from transparency requirements they're proposing faux Windows rather than uh trans curent Windows based on the location of their restrooms and their walk-in coolers uh and on their right facade they're requested alter of compliance for the building massing provision staff recommend approval the board of County Commissioners is the final decision maker for this [Music] application this is the front uh facade fairly standard WWA you can see on this facade they have plenty of Windows and also some faux windows on this right facade you can see these gray faux windows in Li of transparent Windows based on the location of their restrooms and their walk-in coolers this is their left facade you can see the the outdoor dining area and this is the rear facade again we have some faux windows in Li of transparent windows this matter was heard before the local planning agency this past Thursday December 5th the rec the uh outcome was a split vote two to two development review staff have found the caner Investment Partners LLC application to comply with all applicable regulations and the comprehensive growth management plan as detailed in the staff report staff recommendation is to move the board receive and file the agenda item and its attachments including the staff report as exhibit one move that the board adopt the resolution approving the major final site plan for Wawa caner and locks and move that the board adopt a resolution approving and accepting the 10-ft drainage easement and the warranty deed for dedicated ride of way along Southwest Locks Road to Southwest caner Highway from Richard relli and Kathy relli husband and wife as a condition of approval of the Wawa caner and loocks major final site plan and authorize the chair to sign any and all documents necessary to complete the transaction that concludes my presentation thank you very much um applicant have a presentation to be made actually before we do that Mr Waters um any questions from the commission for staff seeing none Mr Waters uh good good morning Commissioners Tyson Waters from the law firm of fox mcclusky here on behalf of the applicant um I want to start by thanking staff for their efforts and their um review through this whole process and it's with great pleasure that we agree with your staff's recommendation of approval and we'd ask that you do the same thing um as your staff has mentioned we did turn on the Affidavit of mailings at the hearing and um I'd also like to file for the record the resumes working histories of our sworn and Consultants that include Brad Curry David bagot Luke Lambert Jeff Smith and Neil Campbell thank you and in a minute I'm going to have uh Matt Williams with uh with Matthew development and caner investment Pro Partners the applicant of this um this this project come to the podium to give a little bit information on on his company and then after that we'll have David bagot from Haley Ward um go into a little bit more presentation about the project and the site plan in front of you uh but before we start and we before we do that I think it's very important based on some of the comments questions and concerns raised um by the public and by some of the Commissioners about this this application to go into the history of the site so since the original zoning map was adopted in 1967 commercial uses including convenience stores and gas stations have been a permitted use on this site can you talk more into the microphone please I'm having difficulty sorry is this is this better I think it is okay thank you um so again so since the original zoning code in 1967 uh this property has been allowed to have commercial uses including a convenience storing gas stations on it and that right was reinfored by the border County Commissioners in 2017 as part of a mandatory resoning to change the land use from the old category C r3a to the current zoning District of General commercial since the County's original comprehensive plan in 1982 this property has has had a general a commercial General land use designation which allows and contemplates Commercial uses such as a convenience store and gas station since the current property owners have owned this property for the past 40 years so in 1984 again this piece of property has been allowed to have a convenience store and gas station on it so for for the past 60 years the the use being requested today has been a permitted use on this piece of property and so why do I bring this up about the history of the property and the zoning and land use because it's very important that this board appreciate what we're asking for and perhaps even more importantly what we're not asking for we are not asking you to amend your comprehensive plan we are not asking you to amend your future land use map or your zoning map and we're not asking you to modify or amend your Land Development regulations instead to the contrary we're simply asking that you follow those documents follow the terms of your con comprehensive plan follow the guidelines set forth in your future land use map and your zoning map and follow the terms and conditions and regulations found in Your Land Development regulations and we're also asking that you listen and respect the review and consideration done by your professional staff we've worked with them for almost the past year to address this project to make sure that when we come for you we check all those boxes we comply with your comprehensive plan and we CL comply with your Land Development regulations and I think as your staff's already testified to we've done that we comply with your comprehensive plan and we comply with your Land Development regulations and with that I'd like to to ask Matt Williams with Matthew development and can caner Investment Partners to come up here and talk a little bit about his company morning uh my name is Matt Williams and I'm the applicant developer and uh future landowner of the the subject property today um with Matthew development as well as ker Investment Partners um yeah just want to appreciate the time before you guys and uh just quickly introduce myself happy to answer any questions after David uh presents more information on our project uh but then to really just take a step back on a little bit about us a little bit about what we do um so back in about May of 20 23 uh we identified this piece of property uh we're developers we we investigate all sorts of uses and types of property throughout the state uh we're fortunate enough to have a great relationship and a really awesome partnership with Wawa who is one of the uh first-in-class tenants in their category and we sit down with them and identify certain opportunities this came up um it really fit well in their Network for growth of Martin County and serving customers that they feel are underserved um in this part of the county so doing that we um uh kind of get the next step of due diligence on the property and very pleased to find out of the zoning uh of the land use and comp plan that's consistently with gas station so uh we have a high level of confidence that we could deliver for for our tenant uh we start spending significant amount of money on Consultants um Engineers uh ge technical Engineers civil environmental Architects you name it to come up with a full uh engineering design package and plan to review a staff then over the last year uh we've been going back and forth with staff ensuring we' we've molded and uh modified any sort of criteria on the plan to come up with an acceptable uh plan that meets code and complies with all the Land Development regulations um so we're here today uh to present that to you and and looking forward to hopefully having you guys acknowledge of what we've done and what we've worked on with staff um and also just want to say for the record too we're not here to discredit any concerns uh that the residents and and um citizens of the area have I mean we've truly tried to uh listen to accommodate some of those concerns go above and beyond of what we can do per just standard code and um yeah to really be a good neighbor uh we're not here to come in and Bully anyone we want to work with them we think the tenant is going to be a great partner in this area um and yeah happy to um answer any questions at the appropriate time and turn it over to David for um a little bit more in in detailed uh presentation morning Commissioners me see if I can get Tyson had to raise it up a little bit um I'm David bager with EDC Haley Ward um I have been sworn in I'm the civil engineer for the project uh I'm going to take some time this morning to walk you through uh you know some of what Tyson's already eloquently outlined which is our compliance with uh zoning land use and the ldr um I am the civil engineer for the project I do rely on other experts on our team um for this project and some of those are also here with us this morning answer any questions that you have um so some of this has already been highlighted in John's presentation so I'll try and move through that uh information efficiently and stop where where needs additional clarification uh the project is located west of the turnpike and 95 on caner highway at the intersection of Locks Road the parcel is currently 2.29 Acres this is just a close closer zoomed in view so you can see the surrounding uh development and the arterial roadway um included for consideration of approval in our application is a major final site plan the site like I mentioned is 2.29 Acres currently will be 2.19 Acres after a RightWay dedication along Locks Road um the proposed convenience store is 5,537 square ft with and uh the fueling positions are are 12 with a canopy um project also includes Associated Landscaping access stormw management utilities um so a little bit more on the history as Tyson noted uh the original zoning map designated this property is r r3a in 1967 which had gas as a permanent use approximately 57 years uh 1982 land use under the County's original comprehensive feature plan designated commercial General 42 years the proposed site plan is compliant with with existing zoning General commercial compliant with the existing land use commercial General compliant with the Land Development code and comprehensive plan uh with the sections there in on the slide uh the project meets concurrency level of service and adequate public facilities article 5.3 2D this is just a another slide out um matching John's showing the future land use map commercial General on the property and the zoning map reflecting The General commercial zoning delving a little bit more into the permited uses so as we've noted we have a future land use of commercial General and current zoning of General commercial the zoning designation is compatible with gas station convenience as a permitted use under the permitted use categories there's subcategories in the code which this development Cate would fall underneath vehicular service and maintenance it's important because that tracks through the rest of the the code here in the subsequence slides this is a a table um taken out of the ldr table 3 11.2 um just showing the Matrix of vehicle service and maintenance as a permanent use for GC zoning um vehicular service and maintenance isn't allowed use um but per the code requires approval by the board as a major site plan there are this is simply to say that in contrast there are other uses in GC uh that fall underneath uh that uses under the GC zoning that should they fall underneath other thresholds in the code uh would be approved out a staff level as a minor site plan so it would not be before you or before the LPA or have as much consideration as this applicant has been application has been given in those formats some of those uses could include a shooting range indoor pain management clinic kennel Car Wash storage facility Funeral Home Restaurant convenience with or without drive-through so that's that's an important one cuz this this is a site that could almost lend itself to to say a drive-thru a Dunkin Donut something that would would generate traffic and so long as it met the ldr could be proposed here where we feel like this following the Avenues outlined in the ldr has been given the full consideration of the code um so with with that table set some of the Land Development regulations that apply to this site um minimum lot area is 10,000 square ft minimum lot width is 80 ft minimum build maximum building coverage 60% Max height is 40 and minimum open space is 20% all of those uh regulations have been met or exceeded um with this proposed application most notably uh you can see that the building coverage is substantially less and that includes the canopy uh for the fueling stations uh and then our open minimum open space requirement uh is about double we're about 41% as opposed to the Cod minimum of 20% looking at setback requirements um one unique feature about this side is because it's got right away on three sides there's not really a side setback it's all treated as front setbacks and that's what we've included in our our proposed site plan um so uh we well exceed any of the minimum required setbacks this is a a view of the site plan and for those that don't like to look at black and white engineering plans um here's a a color rendering of that site plan for utilities there's already uh public water and Sewer stubbed out to the site in anticipation of future development so we'll be utilizing those service connections to serve the project getting into uh Landscaping um there's a few steps here and uh if if you'll follow me uh because this project with with the proposed use of buding residential is required to have what is called a type four landscape buffer in the code there's some interchangeable language there but that the term that is used further in that code section is buffer yard um a buffer yard is a landscape area intended to separate and partially obstruct the view of two adjacent land uses or properties from one another um stepping down to further what the definition of that is is it's a 40 wide 40ft wide landscape strip with a six foot opaque fence wall or burm it can be any one of those three at least one tree in 34 shrubs for every 300 Square ft trees must be at least 14 ft in height and 3 in caler the proposed buffer that we have on the applicable property line which would be our Western bound buting the residential uh property is a 40ft strip plus we've added another 6 and 1/2t strip to ensure that we can get that landscaped with native trees and shrubs uh we do include a six foot high opaque fence and we put that on top the BM as I as I mentioned my previous slide it's any one of those three but um to make sure that we've promoted the best screening that we can we've placed that on a burm uh elevated above the property line um the area also includes a bio retention area planted entirely with native trees and Wetland vegetation and that system does achieve a net Improvement of nitrogen and phosphorus removal from storm water the project also proposes buffers around the adjacent rideways a 10-ft buffer planted with native trees and shrubs we're preserving two larger Oaks on the Frontage of caner Highway and similarly we have a bio retention area at the corner of locks and caner this is a a depiction of those areas highlighted in green you can see the emphasis on planting on the western boundary for screen screening and meeting the type four buffer requirements along with the preservation of the oak trees on caner Highway and uh Landscaping buffers around the rways this is a a cross-section depiction of the type four buffer on the western boundary showing the double rows of trees uh and the screening with the opaque fence on the three foot BM some renderings of the lines of sides from the respective rideways um this is from caner Highway traveling west looking towards the proposed store this would be standing uh in the inner section looking at the corner of locks and caner this view would be if you were traveling towards the intersection at caner from Locks Road so heading east and this would be looking at the Western Property boundary from caner Highway you can see on the the center of that depiction the uh type for buffer and similarly the same type four buffer from Locks Road with on the far right hand side of that picture the uh the opic fence our firm completed environmental assessment and uh tree survey tree report this year some of the findings and outcomes of that there's no native habitat located on this site the site has been historically cleared um there's a couple pictures included for reference there of that that condition in the past um there's no jurisdictional Wetlands located on site uh the project will preserve two larger existing Oaks along caner Highway um and out of the 111 planted trees per the ldr 98 of those trees are 88% will be larger than the code minimum at time of planting moving into um architectural um information on on the building in the canopy um this is just a same slide that John included in his presentation the uh front left right and rear facades of the building this is a depiction of the fuel cany uh the proposed project complies with Article 4 division 20 the commercial design standards and just generally outlining what some of those elements are uh the facades are designed to reduce mass or scale nonuniform monolithic uh appearance so think of in context of the the heart of that would be not to have a big rectangular flat walled Str you know structure fronting an arterial roadway something unappealing to look at um whereas Wawa's proposed architecture provides some visual interest and and satisfies the uh requirements of the ldr uh it includes awnings located over windows and doors porches with outdoor seating decorative columns fascia and light fixtures and a peak roof form um once again kind of circling back to my first point the architecture is not as the the code scourg is massive or generic so with that context of not wanting to be massive or generic um I'll touch on the alternative compliance a little bit here it's permittable under the ldr and by the means that I'm about to describe here generally fulfills the intent of section 4871 um the right facade is only 55 ft in length and so that small size is is a bit constrained to do what is conventionally use to meet uh to to satisfy this part of the code which is articulations bump outs in in the building um it's a simple means of doing that to checking that box whereas uh the preference here would be to include more attractive Design Elements so uh we utilized ones under ldr 4.87 2 awning raised parapet Peach roof decorative light and decorative windows on that facade um so and as John outlined on the rear uh the rear and right of the store um typically the code requires non- mirrored glass so a window that would be transparent that you could see those those facades are where back of house restrooms most notably uh Mechanical plumbing rooms would fall and so to uh to satisfy that requirement without promoting visual looks into those rooms uh we have the faux glass uh proposed on those windows this is just a quick look at the a proposed monument at the this will be located at the corner of caner and locks um near the signalized entance section moving into traffic this is a general outline of the proposed Ingress and egress project will construct a right turn lane and a left turn lane on caner Highway um and we'll construct a right turn lane uh which is the only means of egress on Locks Road and restricting in Ingress via left turn movement on Locks Road I'll elaborate a little bit more on that so one of the first things we did when we were approached this project and moved into the preapplication stage before we ever submitted a site plan application is we looked diligently at traffic um and one of the things we found that uh with a conventional approach on this project without an alternative we would be increasing the number of trips entering the site on Locks Road and so um that that was something that we we we took careful eye at um also doing so Ingress on Locks Road would create additional vehicular conflict you essentially more turning movements on there going into the site so the goal was to try and reduce that um evaluating the site for right in right out movements only on caner Highway that creates an increase in U-turn movements within an intersection of an arterial roadway something that we wanted to make sure that we stayed away from as much as possible um as such we we approached do and were granted um the ability to construct a left turn on caner Highway with the focus being to keep as many of the trips on caner Highway accessing from caner um Ingress was is restricted on Locks Road to dissuade anybody from going into the property uh using that entrance uh the proposed access M uh maximizes distribution of traffic and prioritizes the use of caner Highway access into the site um the proposed site plane has two driveways that once again is to allow more distribution of traffic and it's restricted in ways that reduce new trips onto Lock Road coming into the site versus other Alternatives um convenience and fuel have a substantial C of existing trips I just make that point that if if you dig into the nuts and bolts of the traffic analysis these types of uses have 75% you know upwards of that amount of capture of existing trips so in those totals of traffic keeping context that they are trips there there's a large portion of the trips that are already on the road um so you know the proposed plan allows surrounding residential communities Ingress and egress to the site without unsafe U-turn movements in caner Highway um last point I'll make there is that Martin County fire rescue through review of the application did request that we add a new hydrant be installed at Locks Road that would be on our North Boundary um and so access from locks is also desirable uh from a safety standpoint so they can access that home um some of the codes that the proposed application complies with Section 4.84 mobility and connectivity section 4.84 driveway location design and once again section 5.32 of the ldr adequate public facilities um this is just a an excerpt from our our staff Report with the underlying portion there saying that the project has reviewed has received the positive evaluation uh similarly another excerpt from our staff report uh outlining all the various areas where we've met adequate public facilities pable water sanitary sewer Solid Waste storm water Community Parks Road facilities mass transit and Public Safety um our team really believes that this is the right location um and for some of the reasons that I have outlined here compliant zoning and land use has been mentioned quite a few times in this presentation it's located on AR roadway and a major collector those are the designations for caner Highway and Lock Road respectively um it's consistent with a comprehensive plan the project will provide high quality service to communities west of I95 and the turn bike and the Wawa brand is uh in store model really emphasizes creating a safe Community Based uh environment for their stores they really integrate themselves into the local community this is this will be the spot where you know the patrol the patrolman First Responders anybody out west of 95 serving those communities will will stop they may pick up their their coffee I mean w goes extra lengths to make sure those guys are are fueled and and and good to serve their community and you can see here they they hold events where they have uh you know hogy building contests and everything else and the county I'm sure has seen those with the respective store openings elsewhere um Wawa puts an impeccable focus on the safety of their Stores um they meet or exceed all requirements from EPA fdp fdax and the health department so outside of what we're here reviewing today a site development permit they are highly regulated by those agencies and and met or exceed all of the requirements they put an emphasis on prevention um where you know for instance some of the the the bullet points there D requires only single walled tanks but they have double walled for for extra containment uh they have Shear Valves and breakway valves at all the pumps so for instance if you were fueling up and accidentally forgot to take that handle out of your car and drive away they have valves and automatic monitoring that's stop that from from to prevent spills from occurring um they have containment units under the tanks and under the dispensers as I mentioned electronic monitoring and automatic shut offs Leak Detection that's 24 hours a day 7 days a week that they're doing that and there's always a staff member at the facility that uh is trained in underground storage and tank operations the project uh did hold a neighborhood meeting on May 30th 2024 at Christ Fellowship um on Pratt Wy road so to summarize some of the information that I've already said the proposed project will be 2.19 Acres after a rway dedication uh the proposed convenience store is 5537 Square ft and there are 12 fueling stations project proposes construction of an eastbound right turn lane on Lock Road construction of an eastbound left turn lane on caner Highway and construction of a westbound right turn lanane on caner Highway there's no water sewer expansion required for the project there's adequate water and sewer service at the property line now uh the proposed project has native landscaping and buffering that satisfies the ldr uh includes a bio retention storm water management system for treatment of storm water and and and attenuation um the project satisfies section 5.32 adequate public facilities for traffic utility storm management solid waste and Public Safety and once again the project has compliant zoning compliant land use and this is a permanent use on the proposed property with that we uh we'll fill any questions you guys have so so again just in conclusion we've been working with your staff for over a year even before we applied for the site plan um the applicant and their Consultants reached out to staffs to start formulating the best project for this site and we think we've done that and with any project before we come to you we all want a staff report like this and I'm just going to read you just little bits of it determination of compliance with land use site designs standards zoning procedural requirements staff has reviewed the application and find it complies with the ldr as detailed within this report staff recommends approval of this development application as consistent with the guidelines and standards of the appical comprehensive plan goals objectives and policies as implemented in the ldrs determination of compliance with growth man comprehensive growth management plan requirements staff has reviewed this application and finds that it complies with the ldr as detailed in this report staff recommends approval of this development application as consist consistent with the guidelines and standards of the applicable comprehensive plan goals objectives and policies as implemented in the ldr determination of compliance with Urban Design and community redevelopment requirements development staff has reviewed this application and finds it complies with Article 4 division 20 commercial multif family and Industrial design standards of the Martin Martin County Land Development regulations determination of compliance with environmental and landscape requirements the growth Management Department environmental division staff has reviewed the application and find it finds it in compliance with applicable Land Development regulations determination of compliance with Transportation requirements the traffic division of the public works department finds this application in compliance determination of compliance with engineering storm water and flood management requirements the applicant the application has been reviewed was reviewed viewed for compliance with the following divisions of the Land Development regulations division 8 execration fill and Mining Division 9 storm water management Division 10 flood protection division 14 parking and loading division 19 roadway design determination of compliance with utility requirements this development application has been reviewed for compliance with applicable statutes and ordinances and the reviewer finds it in compliance with Martin County's requirements for water and wastewater levels of service so a staff Report with all staff recommendations of compliance and I also want to read to you a portion of chapter 19 of your comprehensive plan the property rights element and specifically policy 19.1 A.1 the following rights shall be considered in local decision making subpart one the right of a property owner to physically possess and control his or her interest in the property and subp part two the right of a property owner to use maintain develop and improve his or her property so it's always the preference of an applicant their consultants and their land use attorney to stand in front of you with public support and the unanimous support of this commission but I understand I've been doing this long enough where I don't always get that and I also understand and appreciate that through the application process there can be some unpredictability where where things pop up and you're forced to address and that's why some of these projects take so long to get to this point but what there can't be unpredictability about is the implementation of your Land Development regulations if a property owner comes to you with a permitted use and complies with all of your Land Development regulations it is right fair and just for the public for the property owner and this community as a whole to approve the project we check all the boxes we comply with your land devel regulations and whether we hope that you like this project you like w was at this site but if you have your reservations and maybe aren't sure that a gas station is right here we still comply with your land relevant regulations and we deserve and we we request that you agree with your staff and you agree with the experts that have testified today and you support this project um and finally in addition to the individuals you've already heard from today on behalf of the applicant um in the audience with me today as part of the project team I also have Brad Curry the land planner uh Luke Lambert our transportation consultant Jeff Smith our landscape architect Neil Campbell the environmental consultant and Brian Seymour of the gunster law firm and with that we're happy to answer any questions you may have thank you very much questions for the applicant time we will go to public comment wait a minute commissioner Vargas okay um I don't know about the others but I have received a boatload of emails mail hand delivered phone calls um my Aid is overworked on this uh from the neighbors who feel very very strongly we even had some comments this morning um so there there are several items and I understand about the comp plan when it was adopted changed all of that I understand how far back that goes you mentioned it's General commercial so you could put a restaurant there who am I speaking to the attorney okay restaurant uh yes ma'am a restaurant a convenience restaurant meaning with with or without a drive-thru a McDonald's popey put offices a small strip center a car wash yes ma'am could do that you could also put a four-story storage facility is that correct yes ma'am and of course a gas station convenience store which is what we're talking about here so if you have checked all the boxes you have the permit why are you coming before the board is it because of the product that's being sold I'm asking Mr Donaldson Elise Elder Deputy County attorney you're coming before the board today because of the product that sold a gas station requires border County Commissioner approval all those other uses would just be administratively approved by our growth management director okay so it could have been rubber stamped by this department had it not been a gas station one of the uh residents expressed she's in the medical field about benzing leukemia non Hotchkins Loma because it's so close to a residential area other Counties have adopted 500 ft do you know how far this is from that residential area the first home I know there's a home right abing this property behind the fence have they objected I I I think yeah I think you might hear from from that individual um later in the public comment okay great um do you know how far this is besides that home that's nearby the residential because I I drove West I got my automobile I drove West I drove East on caner I circled around to Locks Road all the way down I came back I visualized I know what aaha looks like the Ingress ESS is another issue people have said it's going to stack traffic up on caner Highway heading west to turn onto Locks Road so I mean there a number of issues somebody talked about I'm just recollecting from all of the communication the bus the school bus that stopped and yes they have the stop signs as a responsible driver you were supposed to stop both ways coming and going in front of the bus the children are let out in front of the community they jump on the bus again in front of the community I have the same same type of situation where I live um if somebody does run the bus stop signs that's a sheriff department issue um you might think there's a lot more traffic coming into the Wawa somebody might run down that vehicle that ran the stop on the bus uh take down a license plate um I've heard what you said about the safety uh concerns that the company has for folks to visit at all hours of the day and night um were you going to say something I'm sorry going back to the distance between the adjacent homes from the underground storage tank area and the vent stack area I think from the closest home it's between 250 and 300 ft okay is there any regulation in Martin County that it has to be further away no ma'am not at all so you you have no minimum there there are I Paul Schilling growth management director just if I may there are some standards in the Land Development regulations which it is compliant and required to be compliant with there are standards of specific uses it's section 3106 and that's vehicular service and maintenance so it talks about the fuel dispensaries and above ground tanks and vent pipes and those not being closer than 50 ft from a property line so this is 200 and some odd feet there are requirements such as for our neighborhood convenience store around that same lot that the building housing the retail establishment be located no closer than I believe 10 ft to the fuel pumps so this is uh far exceeds that I'm talking about the actual fuel dispensary and then there are requirements for the fuel storage systems that those shall be installed and maintained in accordance with Florida Statutes 4 43.61 so the state agency and then where they are abing a residential PUD category B District shall be separate separated by a type four landscape buffer which this project demonstrated compliance with so those are the the standards for specific uses within our Land Development regulations all right you mentioned that you had your team had a meeting with the residential owners last year I believe it was at Christ Fellowship is that correct yes ma'am okay and um what was the participation I'm G to ask David bagot to get a back up here just to I wasn't at that meeting but he can give you more information okay Wasing morning so back in may we we did distribute uh invites of the surrounding residential uh neighborhoods to attend the meeting at Christ Fellowship the turnout was generally good um it was over a span of a couple hours so we invited the residents to come in meet with each of our design professionals we had stations set up where they could speak to someone about traffic speak to someone about environmental speak to someone about lighting um and had a company exhibits to answer any questions that they had okay um so have you received comments from folks in the area have they called you we've had a we've had a couple direct call like directly to my office I've had I don't know your office anybody's office so we we I've had a couple calls from adjacent residents direct to our office I know we've been made aware of the ones that have either come directly to you or staff um some of those were folks that attended the uh neighborhood meeting and we were able to get a FaceTime you know interface and answer any questions there okay um so uh did you appease their concerns their anxiety in as much as the project is physically able to and that in in accordance with the ldr or any other applicable regulations um you also mentioned that 40% of the 2 and a half acres I believe something like that 4.67% okay yeah I I know you're an engineer I'm not an engineer I'm a language arts person but that's that's fine um that is building construction and the remainder is landscape that was the open space number I apologize okay um yeah so the 4.67% would be the applicable open space okay of the project okay yeah all right and the balance is constru balance is is between the canopy and the building yeah all of that now I know um I know that you mentioned about a wildlife report because I did have meetings for today's event and uh people are concerned about you know the go for tortoises the habitats from do you have to have another report completed and presented to Martin County before you start construction because I understand they can walk on the property at any time is is that correct yes I I believe the report you're referring to is what I touched on is our environmental assessment that's where we go out and we look at Wetlands vegetation any species that might be on site during that we didn't have any species of concern at that point in time um the the subsequent report that you're talking about would be we would likely do another go for to a survey is that required it is it is required so this department would receive that yes because you said likely maybe yeah sorry the that that once once the project was approved and go moving towards construction within the appropriate time frames we would submit that report to ensure that there's none on site and then set up the appropriate controls to make sure that we cleared the site after that was uh approved all right right who is paying for the fire hydrant we are all of it well that so the the developer is is paying for the the installation of the new Fire Hy and I think that gentleman has the option on the property is that correct okay that's your business you come and you define sites that are good for whoever the end user may be so that's what you do the the one issue that has come constantly is the stacking of traffic from east to westbound turning on locks I understand about the Turning lanes and I know that you have planned that you're investing in that for safety is there a remedy to that it we we've evaluated all of those options and So my answer is is going to be to to attempt to walk you through the constraints of that if that's okay um important to know does the stacking does clear 100% of the time with one cycle of the light so I'll be it there there will be stacking and they're stacking there today but with the timing of that light it does clear in 45 seconds and who who determines the timing of the light is that a Florida Martin County Martin County county is uh is the operator of the signal okay he wants to talk go ahead Luke y I was Luke excuse me Luke Lamer on behalf of work engineering and planning at TMC company um Martin County is the operating and maintaining agency of those signals and that timing and Southwest Canon highway is a state facility so they really work with that that agency to determine those signal timings okay so it' be 45 seconds is that is is it sensing that the traffic is heavy at certain times is so Martin County is very fortunate they do have a lot of vehicle detection and so there are cameras that detect when they need to switch phasing from the mainline to the side street all I have right now there's a staff on any is that still relevant no that was from earlier thank you Comm thank you anybody else we will go to public um you will have three minutes to speak uh the first speaker is Christine Truitt followed by Len Burke good morning Commissioners my name is Christine trit and I am my husband and I are homeowners in Savannah Estates speaking to sorry that better okay um we're homeowners uh in Savannah States across from the Wawa proposed Wawa our group has submitted a packet to you today about our concerns questions to consider and a petition totaling 1,13 unique names of community members who are also opposed to this project we're asking for your help in this matter the petition signed to discussed violation of Martin code Land Development code traffic concerns impact on community safety preservation of residential character redundancy of services in this case seven gas station SL convenience stores within 1.5 miles of this proposed site we're an organized group and we took our task seriously we talked to people we listened to experts in various Fields read research looked at codes and became more concerned as we did this one concern was so serious that we added information on page six of your package with supporting literature that is the negative health effects of gas stations on residential neighborhoods Tammy spoke to some of this this morning several our members will come up to speak to each Topic in more more depth something really struck me in all of this during the LPA meeting three of the four planners had a lot of questions and concerns about this project leading to a two to two vote one planner who voted voiced many concerns and he voted yes simply and I quote because he was afraid to poke the bear the Bear in this case being Wawa and likely the wealthy developers that will benefit from this development we also heard from the County's legal team that if the owner of a commercial parcel submits an application and it meets all codes that it has to be approved in essence if 10 commercial land owners sitting in a row all want to put up gas stations and they meet the code then up goes 10 gas stations this leaves me wondering who's really in charge of our community is it the bear I also thought of the word planning in our in our local planning agency clearly even when they attempt to plan and really think through a proposed for a site it is really fruitless as the bear makes the determination does this mean that we're left we're leaving the Bear in charge I don't think so I think that's why we have a planning agency and I think ultimately you overseeing the approval of development projects our planning board has real concerns about this project 1,13 of your constituents have real concerns this proposed development on this particular site has no real planning from a county development consideration it is simply an application sitting on a site that was owned 60 years ago with very little residential homes around it at the time it has mostly met the code and should now get approved but but we don't see it that way we ask that the Commissioners not and not see it that way also it's time to poke the barar and time to take back control of the City Planning and move to Shared vision of this beautiful County and take care take care of each other the animals and our shared home and the nature and Landscapes ma'am up thank you please poke the please poke the bear help us poke the bear thank you Commissioners thank you Len Burke is next followed by Jennifer blot thank you for letting the little people speak um others are going to talk mostly about the traffic things like that my question is to all your board Commissioners when is enough enough with the overbuilding I said for example Fort Lauderdale has become the new Miami I go there a lot I said in regard to congestion and uh traffic do you want this from Martin County how many vacant pieces of land a zone for gas stations when do you reach the point of mandating a limit to the any amount of any one industry saturating the air the area it doesn't matter whether it's gas stations the food restaurants things like that I said if you have eight applications for gentleman's clubs and you took a poll pun intended would you allow it right that's basically what I want to say but what's been missed here in general and everything's right and conforms we we know that we've heard enough from these gentlemen behind me but the situation is who's looking at the situation with the people the people that you know live work in the area have to commute things like that I mean big corporations have no empathy for anybody it's bottom line profit you see it all the time look around areas south of us all the dead malls of America that have been you know shut down by the use of Amazon so what happens eventually if we get Amazon that can ship gas directly to your house could happen there you go so now we're going to have a bunch of empty gas stations so in general as a resident of Lo of Savannah Estates I just think that this doesn't apply to be in this position go down the road a little bit there's plenty of room out west to build gas stations thank you very much Jennifer blot is next followed by eileene weissberger afternoon good morning everyone good morning um people fellow residents I had not planned on speaking this morning at all but I just felt a need to come and see what was going on and to put my two cents in I am a a resident of Gregor Woods I'm all the way down at the end at Locks Road backing up to fips Park beautiful area um love it there I've been there for 22 years I don't think this is in keeping with our neighborhood there is stacking already going on at that light I have to go through two cycles sometimes um I have a feeling there's probably not cameras there to regulate that I hear you know they have complied with what appears that way um but it needs to be rezoned clearly something from 60 years ago needs to be looked at where have people been on that why hasn't that been looked at already um we are not underserved by gas stations in that area um maybe we could kill take care of two items here um the fire station need why not another one there and I say that from personal experience my husband having suffered a stroke in 2020 July you can go in the records look at it took them eight and a half minutes to get there I thought I was in a really safe place with tropical Farms fire station literally not a mile down the street but Indian Street had to respond it was 7:30 in the morning that gas St um that fire station responds a lot to 95 accidents in that area you know it going to Martin um you know um Northbound to 95 there's Accents in there all the time you need to look at that and see how that could be better um taking care of so I just ask you to reconsider this um and find something better for our area thank you thank you Eileen Weiss Gerber is next follow followed by Michael Pella hello my name is Eileen Weber I live on Wildcat Trail which is in the area where the proposed Wawa is um ex well we're hoping it's not going to be there but that's where I live and um I agree with all the negative aspects of this project um I think unless you which I know the Commissioners have uh visited the site and seen the traffic and seen um the beautiful parts of the area back there and I know Wawa has stated we have they're going to have beautiful landscaping trees awnings beautiful awnings Windows just beautiful no the area that we live in back off of Locks Road that whole area if you want to see something beautiful go back there and it's not just the scenery it's the people it's us we all work hard we love our neighborhood um anyway that's just a little personal part of it I know everybody has statistics and all that I'm not a lawyer I'm not a commissioner I'm just a person that loves their home and the people that live there thank you good to see you again [Applause] eileene Michael Panella is next followed by dial Michael is not here John is not here Peter Leon good morning morning for listening to uh my concerns I was at that May 30th meeting it was not informative it was uh to tell us it was to tell us what they were going to do not to listen to our opinion so I'm going to give you some facts you've listened to these and you have the data for it currently there is stacking uh in the study it says it's 400 ft of stacking that's equivalent to if you take a 15t car length that's 27 to 40 cars in that corner I live on Maron drive and to get out of there is not 45 seconds okay I I have to wait for a Good Samaritan to let me out so it takes 7 Seconds 5 to 7 Seconds by the time someone turns from caner into lockville to my drive to our driveway and I've seen some serious close accidents in that area so I I look at I heard the previous meeting in regards to the fire station and I really respect the looking at the future plans for fire stations I'm a next firefighter out of New Jersey and I tell you these guys making a call a call every hour and I pray every time I see them go over the bridge over the the uh turnpike I really do because I've I've lost friends and today if you look at like they said there's a half mile between trop the the gas uh the the station the fire station to caner or to out on uh tropical Road um it takes them 2 minutes and now if you add a an exit or entrance out of of a lock Road and God forbid there's an accident there they're locked because there's no there's no Side Road for those trucks to to go on they may be able to turn around which now adds another two three minutes to be able to respond and Save a Life okay with all the construction going further west on caner with all the uh the uh uh warehouses that have been there there are trucks coming down on caner over that bridge over the freeway at 60 M an hour they do not stop on a dime I've been to many too many accidents involving tractor trailers that cannot stop on a dime and we're now saying we're going to put a a a a turnaround in that point oh my God we're looking for we're just going to see more accidents those accidents are not reported in the previous meeting are going to be now added to this list and I really cons I really ask you to look at the traffic situation that is locko should not have an entrance there should not be a business there that Stacks up any further the traffic that's there at this point in time thank you thank you Sharon reek is next followed by Paul folks morning good morning good afternoon commissioner ERS thank you for your time today I'm going to be quick because there's parts of the reports that I can't say because of my time limits but I want to say all due respect to the Wawa brand EDC Martin County State uh staff report um there's some concerns there are concerns with the EDC environmental assessment that was revised as of February 5th 2024 and that the Martin County and that of the Martin County staff report dated September 20th 2024 within the report from the EDC it states and this is parts of it as part of the local approval process the app applicant will be required to comply with the following item section 4.66667 prior to land clearing approval a tree survey of the proposed Development Area has been conducted and is included with the report that is there in my opinion the interpretation of the words within section 4.66667 upheld as written the construction and approval of the Wawa gas station on this site would not be permissible as for the Martin County staff report dated September 20th a tree survey including approximate position of protected trees protected tree clusters landscaping and other visitation to be removed to be preserved or removed this is in contrary to the re requirements set forth in Martin County Section 4666 as a condition of the issuance of a permit for removal of a protected tree a satisfactory plan shall be presented by the applicant for the successful replacement of trees to be removed based on the schedule found in section 4.66667 again this is not in alignment with the stipulations of the Martin County Section 4.66 so what's the purpose of having section 4.66 in place to safeguard our environment and protect the designated trees if it can be disregarded at will the report continued with the remedy suggestion and clarification trees shown that our splitting the property boundary should also be protect thank you for your time thank I do want to say one thing that they spoke about impeccable focus it said that you know that they have impeccable Focus but I know that that in the Viro Beach Wawa they've removed the outside seating D due to homeless sleeping on the seats and drug use now your time is up thank you thank you Paul folks is next followed by Rick Osborne thank you Commissioners my name is Paul folks I'm a resident of Savannah Estates U I have 34 years in the development and construction industry I'm a professional engineer CER general contractor and hold a myriad of other industry certifications I'm sorry I didn't bring my resume to be brought into the order but uh it exceeds those of others in the room uh suffice to say I'm an expert at this health concern science not me science shows Benzene fumes from gas stations cause cancer to preserve Public Health gas stations should be a minimum of 500 ft away from homes it's uh surprising our code doesn't already mandate that uh who do you want to give cancer to uh landscape buffer yard on Thursday LPA asked staff if landscape concessions REM made the answer to the board needed to be yes director Schilling approved the removal of several existing large oak trees to allow a combined bios swell landscape buffer the details the project requires a 40ft wide landscape buffer and a 30ft wide storm water retention system normally add them up 70 ft uh which would kill the project but staff chose to kill the Oaks this does not comply with the code 4. 663b buffer yard requirements it is the intent of this provision to encourage the preservation of existing vegetation for use in buffers as opposed to clearing and replanting designed Landscapes the BIOS swell requires the clearing and replacing should not be allowed in the same spot U 4.66 3 B8 Mr director Schilling has good cost shown uh possibility to evaluate these matters there's no good cause for the development and giving more trees in favor of killing uh historic Laurel Oaks not acceptable uh 4.66 3 uh C3 allows grass ditches in landscape buffers and I'm certain they contemplating a conveyance swell across a buffer it is absolutely irresponsible to allow the entire landscape buffer to become a bios swell and I'm a favor I'm in favor of BIOS swells they're good it is not the same thing as a landscape buffer needed in this case but he don't take my word for it let's look at her the May 28 2024 review from Karen so sool who's in the room um I'm not done remove retention area from the type four buffer is what she said she was overruled by director Schilling I ask you to overrule him thank you Rick Osborne is next followed by Paul gwad good afternoon Commissioners thank you for hearing me I am Rick Osborne I live at 1214 Locks Road I Am The Neighbor Next Door to what is proposed to be a Wawa when we moved there we moved into an area surrounded by woods with the very peaceful that was very good for my boys who are on the autism spectrum they're in their early 20s right now and we are continuing to try and find ways for them to work work into the community into healing having a business that's 24/7 generating the amount of traffic the noise will impact that in a in a serious way so I just want to say that I have heard a number of concerns here and I thank you that you are the line of defense for the community and know that if you approve this it's done but if you will disapprove it then you will give time to investigate these concerns to see whether or not they are valid so I really urge that this would be denied now to allow further time for investigation thank you Mr gwed will be followed by Jean Reef morning good morning my name is Paul gwood uh I have been a resident of Savannah States for 10 years after buying the last new home in the low subdivision in December 2014 I retired from a 46-year career at the end of 201 23 my and from retail my positions were filled leadership roles across the US with the last N9 years I spent as a district manager for Ross um responsible for stores as far south as Lake Worth and North to Jacksonville over to the North Orlando suburbs I drove over 36,000 mil a year Wawa was a frequent stop from me the folks at Wawa run a nice business Wawa was um conveniently found off I95 or in town next to hotel or retail uh centers away from residential areas there are four W locations 4 to 7 miles from my current home and all are away from any intrusion into residential areas this is due to proper zoning that recognize the distinction for proper boundaries between what's appropriate to provide safe and secure residential living and the requirements to operate uh various businesses in the case of the proposed Wawa at canar and Locks Road these distinctions have been disregarded with reference back to zoning decisions made in 1967 I was 13 years old in 1967 I'm 70 now other speakers have covered the surrounding land use when that decision was made in 1967 versus the current state of residential land along Locks Road down to the locks residential communities run along the entire route there are two main roads Locks Road and Southwest tropical a that access caner Highway with traffic lights only at Locks Road this brings us to zoning the property on the southwest corner of caner and Lock Road intersection was designated uh as limited commercial use um why was the land proposed for Wawa also not chosen for limited commercial use at the same time it's it was said at the LPA that uh we should have spoken up years earlier about this in fact we have a County Planning Commission and elected officials to um drive a change uh to safeguard the community residents as we go about our daily lives as Citizens We're a called to action when notices of public hearings are posted that's typically our first realization that actions have been taken regarding land use which may not be in concert with the current land and Zoning in the surrounding areas with two RV parks and the recreation boat launches accessing the St Lucy Canal traffic along locks is not limited to typically sized Vehicles we have large motor homes and Trucks towing uh boats or other cars um so the the backlog that's been addressed and and I I concur that it's a hazard turning out because of that turn off of Sir your time is up thank you thank you um it makes it difficult to se cars is up before you know it thank you thank you Jean reef is next followed by Brandy folks afternoon good morning or good afternoon thank you for your time um my name is Jean Reef I live in lock Landing um 67 years ago lock Landing didn't exist it was a cattle farm and 67 years ago um Lake Tuscany didn't exist it was a cattle farm so therefore a gas station service station on the corner of Locks Road and caner Highway at that point in time would have probably been a very wise thing with all the trucks and whatever that might go back to the cattle Farms but now there's 400 homes between Lake Tuscany and and locks Landing plus there's a new development called locks um Estates that's right down close toward the um locks the the locks themselves and we now have Savannah Estates so therefore that's become a residential area it's no longer commercial something that was zoned to be for a gas station 67 years ago is old it doesn't mean that it needs to be in existence today therefore I think that that's the misuse of that type of property which leads me to the next Point according to the rights of property owners in the State of Florida and I read the right of a property owner to use develop and improve his or her property for personal use or for the use of any other person subject to state law and local ordinances is permitted they don't own the property the man that owns the property is selling it therefore his rights are not being violated because if this if this project fails he still has the right to sell his property to a Veterinary Clinic to a little strip mall to a little storage facility whatever so his rights are not being taken away from him these people want to absorb those rights and that's going to make it bad for us so I say that you should vote this down if don't if don't vote it down at least table it so you can go back to zoning and say why is this thing still zoned for a gas station thank you very much for your time thank you Randy folks is next followed by ful Ahmed good morning Commissioners my name is Brandy folks and I am also a resident of Savannah Estates it's not just Savannah Estates as is effects it's approximately 10 different neighborhoods well over a thousand homes right we have more than a thousand people have signed this um petition in 1967 the zoning and um in 1967 that corner lot I understand it was actually a fruit stand that was there and we would welcome a fruit stand to be there where we could get fresh fruit and vegetables from local agriculture that is something that we would welcome I my daughter is the daughter that has is the person that has stood at that bus stop for the last several years she is in high school out at South Fork High School now imagine if it was your daughter your son early teens standing directly across from a Wawa or any gas station any convenience store waiting to safely be brought to school at 7:30 in the morning some mornings it's dark there are unfavorable things that happen at these locations it does happen it is real I as well March 23rd 2023 had pulled out of my development waiting at the traffic light I was rear ended today I still go to the chiropractor every two to three weeks just to keep an alignment I was on my way to work I work at the hospital I work 7 a to 7p sometimes I have no choice but to have my child be at the bus stop there's also um junior high students at that bus stop who are 11 12 and 13 years old waiting again to be taken to school without adult supervision there is no easement for the traffic on that road to be pulled over currently the sidewalk is on the side where the proposed Wawa is there is no easement on I I'm assuming it's the westbound traffic on Locks Road where the students stand in the front of our development there are also at least for the high school 10 bus stops along that road and that route that are easily followable followed and accessible for any kind of predators that would be in that area that would easily see the time again and again of what happened you know these students are out there at the same time please protect our children it's my daughter's face please protect our children thank you ful Ahmed is next followed by Roberta Moss thank you for opportunity my name is ful Ahmed and I own the business James mobile and I've been here 12 years I've been serving my community more than 12 years and I think waa going to be put me out of business reason because 75% customer people come from The Locks Road and actually everything for the People by the people uh it's not a Walgreen or CVS it's a gas station 7 gas station within a miles so I think it's not a good idea for a gas station and also by the way down the road 996 and Canal highway I own the land I apply for the same type of convenience to with the small Plaza I've been waiting four years there is no respond wa not been one year they apply that application getting aov there is somebody behind making quick I wish he can make a delay thank you thank you Roberta Moss is next followed by okay Frederick Burgess I'm Roberto boss can you hear me yes okay I'm I'm non-weight bearing I had to have my foot reoperated on last Friday so um thank you for bringing the microphone to me Deputy um so my name is Roberta Moss I am a homeowner and also the president of the POA of Savannah Estates we are directly across the street from the proposed Wawa uh about a 60 foot distance between us and our entrance I'm not going to bore you with by rehashing all of the concerns that you've already heard from many of the homeowners in the area uh but we do have legitimate concerns that have already been expressed over a thousand people have been signing a petition that we do not want a Wawa a business that large on that tiny piece of land directly across from the entrance to our properties um you know some of the things you've heard about already is an increase in crime it's a 247 operation increased littering potential for increased homeless people which we've already experienced even before wawah came into the picture increased traffic congestion and you the stacking does not clear in one red light cycle because I travel that every day when I go to go to work um there are potential health hazards for us that you've heard about the devaluation of our homes who's going to want to buy my house when I retire and waah Wawa is right outside the door um there's also going to be increase in u-turns into our development entrance as soon as that traffic finds out they can't turn left on Locks Road into the Wawa now I don't know what the barrier is going to be but if it's just a solid yellow line or those yellow plastic poles that you Bound in the road that's not going to stop traffic um there is a potential for this gas station to put other local businesses out of business you just heard from ful um there are two gas station convenience stores within a half a mile of our development and this intersection so today we ask that you not approve this project as it's been presented for this particular location of property and please do not let big developers control what Martin County looks like thank you Frederick Burgess is next and Mr Burgess is the last request to speak for him that I have he's not here and Michael penella has return John dial would anyone else like to address us if not we're going to close this public hearing and evaluate this proposal commissioner caps um I have a couple of legal questions um one has to do with the whole concept of Road concurrency and how that legal issue applies to this particular development um it's a very interesting um legal issue and it Bears on the legal defensibility of the application does anybody he when I take a stab at that Alise Elder Deputy yeah you would be the one right I could do that for you so under Florida law a if there is a road that has um congestion or is failing or deficiencies the board of County Commissioners is prohibited from making that developer bring that road up to standards all the developer has to do is pay its proportionate share for the impacts of its development so if there's a road failing this board legally is not allowed to deny a Project based on traffic you can only May them make them address the impacts of their development and that is in Florida Statutes 163 3180 so there's concurrency but we can't deny because of a failing road so okay if I can just interject so we the the project meets all of your level of services so there is not a a road issue that that fails the the the the the level of services that are evaluated as part of this project the the project meets those requirements which is why we've got a a comply in that aspect of it so as to your your um to miss Elder's point we'll pay our impact fees for the impact that the Project's on it but we're not triggering any additional requirement because we we meet we're still within your level of services for this project and that roadway system okay and then I had another legal question that was interesting that was uh proposed by one of the public speaker and I'll just call it the 500 foot rule uh which sounded very interesting uh about having in the future perhaps uh having a rule that says that a gas station needs to be f 00 ft from residential development is that a common thing in other counties and municipalities Elise Elder again Deputy County attorney there are some there are some counties in the State of Florida that do have that rule I think Santa Rosa count county has it that's something we can look at and bring back to the board and add to the standards for specific uses for gas stations if the board wants us to we don't currently have that rule at this time right right right and yeah I think maybe that would be a good uh item for discussion in the future if we could bring that back to evaluate the merits of it um let me say a few other things um I want to thank each and every person who came here today uh to speak in behalf of your neighborhoods and in behalf of our County I think that's what makes Martin County an awesome county is that we have passionate citizens uh Who weigh in and very care very much about their County government and um I sympathize with the concerns expressed uh you have a lovely neighborhood back there I've been back there many times and uh it's just a a wonderful neighborhood and I I I would hate to see a gas station going in right at the front of my neighborhood uh if I live there as well um as Commissioners we are asked to make a number of different kinds of land use decisions and some of them fall under a broad category of legislative decisions and the examples of those would be like ordinances and comprehensive plan amendments and those are what they call policy decisions uh where the commissioners have broad discretion the legal standard for those is called fairly debatable as long as your argument is fairly debatable uh you can cast your Vote or however you want so there's broad discretion there's another broad category of land use decisions that are called judicial decisions and you can see those marked on your agenda today you always know when judicial decisions are happening when when the hands go up and people are taking a oath of that what they're going to say is true um examples of those kinds of decisions are zoning matters and site plan matters among others and uh the usual path for developments in our county is that the developer usually asks for a complant Amendment first because he usually is looking for more density and then he asks for a a zoning change to go along with that comp plan Amendment and then he comes in for a site plan approval um this applicant decided to go with our existing rules as it relates to land use and Zoning the land use is commercial General and the zoning is General commercial I flip of those words and a site plan approval is a quazi Judicial decision um we are sitting here as judges we not judges but as judges and that's why you have the oath being taken so the decision must be based upon competent substantial evidence in the record it is not based on our opinions about what should be placed on the property but rather on evidence in the record and a site plan is normally about the particulars of the project not so much about whether the development is going to be built it's about the particulars things like the trees are you have saving enough trees are you're planting enough trees do you have adequate turn Lanes do you have adequate drainage these are the kinds of issues that usually resolve revolve around a site plan approval and that's what we are talking about here today um this is if you look at the title of this this issue on the agenda it says site plan approval it's not a comprehensive plan Amendment it's not a zoning change um it's a site plan approval um and so I don't think the issue before us is whether a Wawa can go here from a legal defensibility standpoint um telling Wawa to go away would not be legally defensible as to the site plan particulars of this project it appears that all the requirements for development are met um and uh so out of my concern for legal defensibility I would uh move approval of staff's recommendation I completely concur with commissioner caps we have very little discretion in this case as much we would love to have discretion to protect your neighborhood I too wouldn't want this at the entrance to my neighborhood but it's an allowable use it complies with all the requirements um so the only thing that we can possibly that I believe that we can do is to try to do some small things that may improve the project and one of those things might be to add another left turn lane from Locks Road onto can or Highway do we have enough rideway are there impact fees available and how much stacking room would that create because I know that that that intersection is already failed so this is going to just make the matters worse so let's see if we can improve it I'm Michael grula the County engineer for the record um the we we we have a minimal amount of RightWay out there to be able to add um can we add some stacking probably is it a lot no would it drastically improve the situation no could it minorly improve the situation probably it's it's so I there is a a a section there that that could be but it's not it's not long it might be a couple hundred feet um okay a couple hundred feet gives us five additional cars about that yeah okay um so we do have rideway available on the which is the preferable side east or west it be it'd be on the West Side okay so do we have impact fees available to create an additional Lane I do not know if we have the the the fees available um I know we're getting additional fees from the Wawa but I don't we have not done that analysis to see if there's um if we have the proper funding Commissioners if you make that a priority we would uh bring in an item back to uh fund that additional Improvement okay commissioner hea heatherington sure I P whole list um and starting out by saying thank you for all of you that have come today and expressed um your concerns and I I believe added to the project that um so we could address your issues and these are always to me the hardest decisions sitting up here of of many because you know you sit up here and you're you're acting in a position of something that is legally entitled but therefore um but I'm sympathetic to many of your concerns and want to address each and every one of them honestly um as someone that grew up in this area we talk I talk with my parents I can remember when that was cattle Farms a gentleman s came up I could remember when the whole area was cattle farms and you know it it's hard to think about all the changes and we look at them and we talk about them at dinner over decades the changes but I the challenging part we I feel like we face for this kind of decision is when something is legally entitled then you when you base your decision if you don't make the decision um that is is entitled by that particular property owner it puts all of our residents in Jeopardy of litigation and that's not the position that we want because what we find in litigation is we we lose control of landscaping and and and stacking and and the negotiations to make the project I think even better and better so while I don't I don't like this and I don't like it for your neighborhood um I did want to ask a couple questions and address some of the concerns that I heard in your um and some of the speakers and some of the things that I recall from sitting up here oh I think it was the second speaker and I'm sorry I didn't get all of your names he talked about um like mandating the a limit on a particular kind of industry that we could have like for instance gas stations and I'll say to to that gentleman's I wish that were the case because what happens when we've tried to do things like that in local government the state comes in and they come with a big big hammer and they preempt local governments from doing that and when when the state preempts us we get things that we really don't want you know for instance on that particular ular corner you could have um which was granted and preempted local governments by the state um the live local apartments so you could have four-story apartments on that which would not come in front of this commission so while I wish that we could limit some of the industries that we don't care for we are bound by some of the state statutes and when local governments do that we end up losing local control um I think Mr caps mention commissioner caps mentioned the 500 foot um buffer I think that's something to definitely look into in the future certainly with an applicant here um we can't do I don't believe we can address that with this particular application but I think it's something to consider and look at uh we had iene the third speaker or fourth speaker mentioned what a great neighborhood it is I completely concur I have friends that live in the neighborhood I know my parents at one point looked at moving from Indian Town our home and still their home and they looked at moving um to off of Locks Road so it's a wonderful neighborhood filled with amazing people and we plan on doing the best we can to keep it that way um as far as fire oh the fourth speaker mentioned firefighters and how to exit the neighborhood um we we we talked to the firefighters this morning and I I know that I mentioned this in our private meetings regarding this um project they have a preemption device so if there were cars coming out of Locks Road um the firefighters do have something where they can preempt the the traffic light is that correct Mr Donaldson uh yes commissioner the firefighters have the ability when they in fact the system even knows where the direction they're heading it will turn the signals uh in front front of them and ahead of them uh to Green so that they can continue uh in uninterrupted so in that worst case scenario um the the firefighters will be able to preempt and I believe that was from the firefighter who who thank you for your service sir and the Land Development um some I think Sharon mentioned your ldrs and have we met all the requirements have heard the staff said that we've met all the requirements and I've heard the applicant um does this application meet all of our Land Development um requirements yes commissioner Paul Schilling for the growth management director for the record I would like to if I may just have an opportunity to address some confusion with respect to the landscape buffery if you'd allow me I'd be happy not to as well no I would I would like to hear that and I and I hope that that shares some insight to the resident's question yes so we have a an application on this site with respect to a 40ft landscape buffer that's the requirement so the applicant chose to position that adjacent to the residential area which is of course the requirement within that buffer we have a 10-ft without outside of the buffer I'm sorry on the left Westerly Edge there is a 10-ft drainage easement that is being dedicated to the county that will process as a bios swell to to maintain historic iCal flows from Locks Road to caner highway so one of the initial concerns early on months ago was the gentleman that lives in that area adjacent to the Westerly side and his concerns with respect to drainage so as part of that review and when we look at these we look at them holistically it's easy to take particular pieces of code and necessarily but you have to look at the big picture and I also have Karen sherome who is our landscape architect who participated in the review of this and I can tell you we fight about trees a lot we fight about trees almost every day and with respect to the this particular buffer it is being HED by almost double the requirements of trees there are two historic Oaks that are being preserved along caner highway there is 20% excess open space on this property which is uh not not on is definitely uncommon uh but I just want to all of the other requirements have been met this has gone through several rounds of review one of the speakers mentioned a a previous staff report that I believe was dated 92024 well the most compliant staff report which is the in the application in the record is dated 11192 24 so there was a subsequent round between that review um that's all I have thank you Paul I appreciate that that that goes on to my next note for the next speaker Mr Osborne um who is the direct neighbor and um I I'm I feel very sympathetic that and I'm happy to hear that that landscape buffer is double and what I can say in talking with the applicant is that the applicant has expressed the the willingness and wanting to be a good neighbor to not only Mr Osborne who is right next door but to the general vicinity and I believe in in having this which is basically a bught application to be able to sit at the table and negotiate it over the last year has made it a better project for the Neighbors instead of litigating it um uh speaker we talked about the cattle farms and as far as the bus stops I I don't know that there's anything that we could do but I I certainly appreciate you know having kids that have ridden the buses and you know um I don't know if there's anything that we can do to address bus stop concerns but what I can say is that our sheriff is um and our Sheriff's Department in Martin County is one of I think the premier and best Sheriff departments in all of the state so I believe that with them really minding this that I hope that will give you some peace of mind but is there anything that we can do to um ensure bus stops or Paul Schilling for the record so the the his the typical operation with respect to the school drop off and pickup is was shutting down the intersection what I mean by that is the school bus stops the preference is to stop on the main road and uh and then pick the kids up as opposed to going into the subdivision so which of course there there is not an opportunity typically to facilitate a school bus Shel on a commercial site uh there are requirements in fact with larger developments to facilitate some of those with respect to the RightWay and those are more for the Marty transit system as opposed to the the school board does participate in reviews of these applications so they could the school board could review some of the the bus stops and the concerns correct um and and then I'll say the stacking that that was my number one question and or um as soon when this application was presented and I met with uh both staff and um the applicant and many of the residents there there are concerns for stacking on Locks Road I think that having that second turning lane would be valuable and if we could find a way to um utilize those impact fees and bring something to this board I think that would benefit the entire neighborhood um to have that additional whether it it fits four cars or eight cars I think that would be a benefit to the neighbor uh neighbors so while I know that that this is a hard one it it's one of our difficult decisions but I I hope that the this process has helped address some of the concerns and it's it's one of those things that um it's it's a byright project and um I I I believe that the applicant is going to work with the neighborhood and and be a good neighbor and I would have to second um that motion any further discussion neighbor yes I uh should I I was I was wondering if uh we could have a visual of commissioner herds um proposal to have additional ratway if you could show it to us on a picture exactly what is meant there Michael can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this area M green patch to the south of Locks Road would be the general area cor correct the the current rideway line is over on the back side of the sidewalk where that truck is sitting at this point the only additional stuff we we looked at a little bit is where the pedestrian Crossings might have to change to be able to make the the additional right cuz that right turn L would move over into the green space so there's a little it's a tight intersection we have to look at all that part of it as well to see what we could get to to to get additional stacking in there I I guess where I'm going with this is uh should I amend my motion uh to make that a condition to the motion um is there Commission if I could add I think what you can do is either you can follow it up with a second motion or if you were to include it you would to to direct staff to uh uh um uh bring back a project to add the additional turn line your choice to it' be your choice to whether you amend it to include it as an item and uh but the I believe as commissioner herd had suggested that this was a a separate Initiative for the county to take on to use the impact fees that the development would generate plus any others that we need to satisfy improving this intersection uh to add additional stacking so I think it's cleaner to do too to do too okay so my first motion would remain the same okay any further comments there's a motion on the floor in a second all those in favor I I opposed opposed that motion passes 4 to one with commissioner campy dissenting and then do you want to make another motion yes yes uh I'm trying to think of the best way to phrase it um we would be making a motion for additional right of play um no will we make it stab out it for you commission yes please do I think it's you're uh requesting uh staff to uh um to initiate a project to ad um to add additional uh U Lanes to for stacking at The Locks Road intersection and to bring back an agenda item um for funding of that project I'll make that motion is there a second second second there's a motion in a second all those in favor I opposed that motion passes unanimously so we have finished that item we're going to now break for lunch when should we come back 2:30 probably good right we good see you 2:30 thank you commissioners for