it's recording at some point yep there it is okay great I've got 1203 and I will start my cute little draft minutes in another document all right I have that um Terry I think we're waiting for them to submit their redlined options correct yeah I think where we left off at the last meeting was you were going to take some time kind of circle up and then maybe present some red lines for us to take a look at and see where we go from there yep and that's where we are we have two versions I I sent you a little message I we had an internal conversation and we want to explore the possibility of of a part-time release and how that might work so I have a I have a draft that kind of incorporates that concept into it um it doesn't I think you'll see it doesn't address what the assignment would be right he'd have to work that out with the district and wor the individual School site but um but the the concept I contained in there and then also to our conversation I've I've added one that's that's kind of more in the line of a of a full-time release the way that um the way that um president renet was kind of set up and very similar so I don't know if I have the ability to drop things in the chat or not see or if I need to em to you guys um I'm not familiar with restrictions I think last time everyone was able to yeah it says I need it does one drive I have one drive but whatever reason it's not reading my one drive um I did um when I did it with us I did that little plus sign and then I did upload from this device that's all I did but I don't remember getting prompted for a one drive so it wasn't actually through the chat function yeah I did it like I did the meeting chat and then I just did the little plus where it says actions and apps and see all I have is a little I have a little attachment symbol I don't have a plus I have font attachment important and um Smiley emojis but my attachment says I need one drive if you email it to me I'll just upload them into the chat if that works for you sorry that I'm better at Zoom than I am at teams apparently likewise okay you should receive the email Terry I just sent it to you okay you should see it tell you when it pops in it makes it through our firewalls and such things all right just got them so let me save them real quick which one do you want me to I'll just put them both in the chat and then I don't know if you'll be able to manage it while it's on your screen yeah I should be able to they're very similar in terms of like the the changes made to the full-time are are similar to the changes made to the part-time there's just kind of a addition of proportionality and and some of the um Financial components but um but the the so we'll start with that one and then and go to the other one let me see this um okay select the edit all right so let me add attach file upload I don't know if that went I did the fulltime okay and then I'm going to do part-time separate see if it lets me do it y it looks like we have that one but I think it may not well that one failed to send may not let you do two at once or it just may not let you modify it because it's shared I guess I don't know it's trying to send it again the part-time one I just clicked the same thing I did and it just says it's waiting still says sending do you want to start with I guess the full time and then whenever the part time goes through you guys have that on your end The U the file there in the chat yeah it came up for me I'm having to authenticate to open it yeah same on my end or Martin you could just email it to everybody I mean it's been shared so if you just want to email it to the whole crew and then they can just all open it separately might be easier and then you can just share your screen and pull it up Julie what is your email it's not popping up S SS a j martinschools.org is all right should be in your email inbox here and in um moments see you want me to go ahead and share a screen here is that the preference I think so if you can is that sharing not yet yep okay is it you see my mouse moving or whatever on there so we're talking about the same thing okay um so this is the uh part-time like I said there's going to be a lot of similarities across both of them so you'll see what we're talking about um I changed the kind of introductory par paragraph um instead of addressing the unpaid leave um to to just say the leave status just to acknowledge that um I don't know if it does that doesn't make a major difference to me but it is just kind of a wording change um um the uh let's see we changed just for your edification across all of it we changed just theal to Mr theal that was a preference um so it it'll show that changing throughout um number four where it starts to get substantial um just released added part-time from is duties again we have um that to be addressed as to what it looks like I didn't know on your end if there was a specific title if you had part-time teachers I don't know that so I left it as teacher on special assignment um you'll see that just because I figured the special assignment may be the part-time assignment it may not it may be you may have another title for it I just wasn't aware of that and so I I didn't make that change um and then I removed that uh Mr theable will report to an individual to be sered by the super intendent because in a part-time status of course he would be reporting to his um administrator or wherever his position is is his superviser through the school um again I left it as teacher on special assignment there um and the what what'll be in number five will be consistent kind of throughout is the idea that the um MCA would pay for you know again the whole idea Remains the Same that the school board is never out any fund as it relates to Mr theold Service as NCA President right so the difference between a part-time and a full-time is that um obviously he would still be able to be paid for his work for the district he wouldn't be able to be paid for his work through um mcea and so we reimburse that portion of um the salary benefits whatever that proportion may be whether it's 51% or what have you um we reimburse that proportionate and so I've kind of added this this proportionate to the part-time status in this document to reflect the the concept that you know we will continue to do the arrangement we talked about under full-time status just on that part-time status um you know proportionate part so you'll see that kind of throughout um again number six is kind of the same idea the portion of his Ser service um in the capacity of President um will be you know will not the bear the board won't bear those costs right obviously those costs will be born by mcea as as we've discussed um throughout and and this is you know again for this portion uh proportionate to the employee employer contributions like you'll again you'll see that throughout the concept being that proportionate breakdown of the um of of the the pay depending on his proportion worked for the district versus worked for mcea um we left the the same thing for the prepaid month in advance figured once we establish that that will remain the same and we'll be able to continue that um prepayment um process to ensure again the point being that the board will never have any incor any cost they will all be prepaid um it gets um we we tried to address in six year B I think it is um you know should additional payment be necessary in the event of unforeseen cost they'll remit payment within seven days of receiving an updated invoice my assumption is that like we talked about yesterday um the board will be aware of those costs in advance somewhat in advance even if it's after the initial invoice but still before that subsequent month it would kind of have to be um just by virtue of the function of payroll and the function of um employment practice um and so as soon as that's aware you know the go again I know I keep saying this but the goal is that the board doesn't bear any cost and so the idea is as soon as we're made aware of that invoice we'll pay it I put seven days but you know we'll have whatever conversations needed to ensure that that's paid on a timely basis um to meet the goal right uh the overlying goal of this whole thing um 6C again the main change is they're proportionate to his assignment um and um the the workers comp piece we'll see down a little bit below but again same thing you know I was able to confirm that the workers comp is direct to be done through faa's workers comp U uh policy MCA is covered under that and and as Mr theold operating in that capacity as president the claim would be appropriately made through fe's workers comp not through the boards and so I think that won't be a problem but the idea there being that in a part-time capacity and I reviewed a few others um that if he's you know working as a teacher or whatever he's working at and the injury happens there that that would be be covered under under that portion and whether there's details to be worked out on that I think it worked in the other situation so I assume it it it works uh but I I'll defer to to you guys on that um um I added a number eight there just to to address the fact that um again he he won't he'll won't receive leave for the portion you know proportionate to a time as keep saying this but proportionate to the time that he's serving for MCA obviously the board wouldn't be responsible for giving him leave for that time and he wouldn't be responsible for taking leave for that time um the um you know the opposite is therefore true right if he's working for the board he would be issued lead proportionate to that time he's working and he would be taking that leave with his administrator um in that capacity right and so that will be the same um proportionate relationship number nine I kind of took out a bunch right and and that's it's a big one I know for you guys the idea being that um that anything that he does while working for MCA is um is you're not liable for I mean that's the ultimate goal there but you know what we are concerned about is that you know if he's if the health insurance program if there's an issue with the way that it's facilitated if he's discriminated against by not being given health insurance where otherwise would be eligible or what have you whatever the issue may be as covered under that employee under that program he would have the same recourse as anyone else covered under that program right that the idea there I think is that um you know that that any claim that that's left with any claim damage suits or other form of liability brought against the board by any person at any time arising from any act omission of Mr theobold which occurs while he's acting as the president of MCA that's what you're indemnified from right so if he's in the capacity of f mcea there is no claim to be made against the board FDA covers that but if there is something that occurs to him by the board right again we're talking about you know something that's really unlikely to occur but if something happens to him by the board um pursuant to the health insurance arrangement pursuant to any other benefit that he's eligible for he should have the recourse given to anyone else that's under those plans right he should be able to to to challenge you know um health insurance determinations like anyone else right and and I I don't know if that was your intent in this language but it left open the possibility that that somehow he could be denied health insurance for an illegal or improper reason and not have any recourse because he's an MCA president I I don't know that that was your intent but it gave that opening to me and I I think it was I think it's covered just by much more simply saying listen when he's acting MCA president mca's liable when he's a board employee board's liable that's kind of the standard thing um like I talked about you know in he won't this is not going to come to fruition right filing a workers comp claim against the board right unless he's working in the capacity he has the board employee because he's covered under another workers comp policy and that's the appropriate place to go but we left that in there right to ensure that if for some reason he did file it in that case that that would be incorrect but that it would not you know we acknowledge it would be incorrect right essentially we would we would um hold you harmless for that for that filing um we left the same uh 10 as far as subject to the terms of annual contract collective bargaining agreement policy the board I tried to get at the conversation we had yesterday by just saying he'll maintain All rights provided by law to um a union officer while acting in that capacity could be a union member could be a union anything right but the idea being that just to acknowledge what I think we all agree with that he has rights and you know they are separate from um what we're not trying to we're not trying to undermine or infringe those rights by by saying he's subject to the contract and I I think that's correct and um again just added part-time to 11 um sorry this seems keep popping up um added that we would attach the teacher on special assignment to the contract as exhibit appendix B um I think appendix a was something else above um so added as appendix B I think we talked about that last time it's essentially just the annual contract and so um that shouldn't be any concerns but we will put it on there so that we're all talking about the same thing um again 13 we talked about this verbally um I added a sentence there you know that absolve either party from implementing remedy stemming from the award again I I I think that was the intent I just put it in there to avoid you know any potential disagreement on there and then as we discussed I removed 615 as as repetitive of something that we we've already acknowledged by the fact that this sun sets um at the close of business on June 30th um so that's that's the part-time one it's going to be you're going to find it very very very similar to the full-time one and that the only difference is that we changed uh proportion proportionate expenses to the other so I'll pull that one up if that is what make sense or how do you want to proceed um on that um I think just go to the full-time one and then we'll give you I'll throw in my comments initially on all of it would be my thought get the other yeah I agree with that because we just want to make sure all of it is in the in the sunshine the part-time and the yeah yeah no absolutely let me Zoom this back in sorry I had to small on my screen make sure everyone can see it [Music] and one should be coming up momentarily is it on your screens yet yep okay and this is this is the full-time like you said I mean the the didn't change as much but the same things have changed we added Mr theobold um there was a repetitive only apply in my version for whatever reason so I took that out but that's um I think I took that out and boat I didn't mention that the first time it just it was repetitive um it may have been an addition by me that I accidentally added and then deleted so I apologize um I took out number four um the theold will report to an individual to be determined by the superintendent I don't know how we necessarily want to address that but uh we're not going to agree to anou that has the president being reporting to the management you know I think that's that's going to be a problem for us um Mr theold Mr theold um I just added or MCA to this one to ensure that you know that the you're getting paid you're getting reimbursed um you just want to make sure that it's it's clear that that it may come from him or may come from MCA um no changes here uh M same change to six additional payment be necessary in the UN unforeseen uh in the event of unforeseen cost will remit payment upon receiving the updated invoice again I think there's some wiggle room about the timeline of that um I don't know what what changes would be likely um to occur and when those changes would be likely to occur my thought was about a week would probably suffice and that would just kind of create a deadline obviously there's no restriction on paying that faster as needed um but um again the goal here I think is very clear that we don't want the board to be out any money we understand that would be a problem for both parties um so we don't want that um again same reason above I took out the annual valuation by a supervisor designated by the superintendent for the same reasons um as before I don't know what would be evaluated and and without having that evaluation I I've sought some information to miss sessa's comments before about well there are potentially salary types that are related to evaluation Awards I don't have an answer to that quite yet I mean I don't know how others are doing it clearly it's being done around the state but um but I don't know how that's being done I don't know what specific salary classifications those are and when they go into effect or whether they go into effect from this year's evaluation or last year's evaluation I don't know the Nuance of that it's something worth considering but um again I think it's it's it's easily to my mind and I again this is Miss Sessa this is on you so I can't I shouldn't probably say easily but the fact that um Miss rinetti was somehow able to do it without having an evaluation suest to me that it's workable if we want to work it out um and so I hope that we do but uh you know without having an idea of what the evaluation is going to be about I'm real hesitant and we're real hesitant about um subjecting him to an evaluation by an unknown person unknown designity of the superintendent for unknown um unknown standards uh I mean I can offer some comments I can wait till you're done Martin i' happily do that okay well why we I'll just finish running through because I think it's almost do and then we'll open it um same thing on not requiring him to notify the board about his leave uh he's not going to receive it he's don't want any value that he hasn't earned but he's also not going to be advising the board when he's taking it because of course he doesn't have it to take um same coners conversation on um what's now eight um in our proposal which is that um you know I think we had that conversation the idea is that you guys are not liable under any circumstances for actions taken by MCA president um but that he should have the right as any other covered employee um for the policies and plans um I added incapacity of the MCA president here just to be clear that again wouldn't be an issue I think it makes the board a little bit feel a little bit easier to have it in there but not an issue he is covered under another workers cont policy which will be the appropriate policy U for him to make any any complaints on and he understands that we understand that that would be our plan um I left the same number what's now number nine maintain All rights provided to a union officer while acting in that capacity just to ensure that we have that meeting of the minds on what the intention of that section is attached the special assignment contract as appendix B um same kind of caveat to the arbitration award and removed the past practice precedent uh restriction in that it will already sunsight at close a business in June 30th so as you see they're both very similar um the only difference is how we coordinate if if there's a willingness to discuss the part-time component of it and I did review the contract it doesn't specifically say full-time or part-time it just says be released on some unpaid status and I I think to to my reading that gives us the ability through bargaining andou to um to address that our hope again you know we've talked I know I say we but mca's talked about it with their board we've heard um numerous occasions what the in uh the school board the district school board has said about these leaves and so I think it solves or addresses maybe not solves but addresses concerns on both ends um and I think you know if there's an appetite for it it would be the preference of of MCA to move that direction and try to work that out if it's possible and so so we wanted to present that opportunity um to you guys today and see if we if you know before you had a conversation with the board go ahead and give you some some thoughts about that there may be others that that Gary or Matt have um from kind of a practical standpoint of how that might work um but again like these release time components I mean Terry and and Jeff you guys know this and you know everyone on this call knows this I guess but you know they work around the country around the state without much concern and so they're they're clearly doable if we want to do them and and I hope that we you know the fact that we're here indicates some willingness to kind of try to find solutions to it so that's why we went ahead and proposed it because we hope to try to find a solution to it but um but we're open to your thoughts or concerns so um I I'll I'll stop talking now but Gary or Matt did I leave anything before we turn it over to um the uh Terry and Jeff and did I miss anything I leave out anything okay that's it do you want me to stop sharing do you want me to leave us on the we all have it computers um I think leaving it up if we just want to go through and Julie I think maybe if we have Jeff also if you want to go to Just page one of I know the part-time I I guess pull up the part-time one um because really the changes are the same for the most part um wondering if I can just change it does it change the document when I just change the screen or is specifically sharing that it looks like it's changing my screen there because I showed part of it okay I didn't know if it was doing the screen or the specific document so you hopefully have the part-time up now I think so that's that's full time yeah that says fulltime in the body of it right give me one second give me one second I think maybe it's just sharing a specific window okay oh no load up here get the zoom back you guys showing something on your screen maybe it's the right thing maybe it's not certain something okay all right and let me know what you need to scroll or whatever um go down just to number four start at number four if you can uh okay I mean really I'll I'll go first I guess it's really part of this first page and it's just who to report to and evaluations I just don't know how practically whether it's full-time or part-time leave if it's part-time understanding that you know as when you're serving in the instructional position that you know the evaluation process is easy but when you're serving in a in a role that's carved out as temporary Duty or whatever we call it um whether it's part-time release or full-time release I just don't know about how we would have an employe not in some way still being assigned to a supervisor and having some form an evaluation and I'm not saying an evaluation about are you doing what mcea requests you to do I think it goes back to where we were talking before about more more generic did you comply with all board policies did you you you know comply with the code of ethics for the education profession and I mean I'm not trying to overly complicated it I'm just wondering what's if there is a work around there um because if we have to evaluate we have to evaluate and and so just trying to figure out what's the I don't know what the solution is there I get your concerns is there flexibility on the tool I mean is there like I mean because there's not going to be a tool in to to do what we're doing right I mean right I don't think we'd have to make it up right yeah and I know I I just don't know admittedly where there's what the evaluation process others may have been able to get by through audits or whatnot that have been acceptable for an evaluation tool I don't know the misr and needy part how that was conducted but on a looking forward basis um I I I think Julie made a good point like if there's a highly effective or effective there's a salary differential there and just how would we I just don't know the answer to that I'm not exactly comfortable though just saying no report no evaluation no but I'm also I can a little terry there yeah yeah yeah please I mean there're I mean Matt's even on the team we're redoing the teacher evaluation BAS based on new statuto changes and and um a negotiated piece where we have um union members on a team to do the teacher evaluation so if this is the part-time release Matt will get a teacher evaluation even though he's working part-time based on the new evaluation that's put together um by the team that's working on the edits right now but evaluating as far as um the other half of the day where he's on presidential believe I understand what Terry's saying if we want him to follow um policy and procedure when he's on in the CBA when he's on campus when he's not teaching so I think that's what we're talking about with this partial release one is going to be the canned response so we have an evaluation and he'll be teaching and he'll get an evaluation from his school administrator and that's not outside anything we already do but I think what's a question is afterwards that we could get from our board members that we're addressing with the indemnity and those other P pieces that they brought up to us is is there not necessarily evaluation Terry but just making sure he's acting within the course and scope of his job as the president and then what things do we need to make sure we have in there to protect the district while he's on our campus and working with our employees is that making sense okay yeah just is there makes a lot of sense I mean go ahead Martin sry no it makes a lot of sense I mean I I I just practically don't know how we solve it right I mean if even if it's let's just say because I think we would probably hold firm to like it's the superintendent right if he's as MCA president he wears a hat very similar to the superintendent in that capacity so he shouldn't be evaluated by anyone else um but someone that's got that level but even like compliance with the CBA is is a subjective thing and it is inherently conflict right sometimes not always but like there the reason that we have two sides of this sometimes is that we say we are complying with the CBA and the board or superintendent says we're not right so how does the evaluation work out if they if the evaluator says Matt's not complying with the cbaa when he's at school and we say no he is you know it's it's inherently problematic because there is no standard like there are with a teacher that there is a like you said there's a committee identifying what the goal and the purpose of this role is and that goal and purpose is defined externally to the school board right it's defined by MCA right so how do we I mean we could have his his board evaluate him right I mean I don't they probably already some extent I'm speaking out of turn obviously but like somebody who's actually like got some authority to identify the roles and responsibility and goals then whether he's Meeting those would be I I just I don't I don't know how we how we come up with unless it's like you know Schoolboard policies and ethics and you know that you know very simple terms like just Basics but to the extent we bring in any collective bargaining any grievance representation any you know any of the Union role I I don't see how we can agree to that I just I I want to come to an agreement I understand your concerns and I think you understand mine but I don't know how we would how we would how we would accept I don't I just don't know that we could Gary go ahead sorry yeah so only thing that I wanted to contribute with that is that it gives us more more of an incentive to lean towards the part-time because then that question gets answered through a part-time implementation right so that's a selling point to to um transition towards or take into consideration a part-time request more so than um the full-time request the other part about the full-time request that I just want to put on record is that what what um made all of this transpire and take place in the first place was the issue that was being raised on who was uh proposed to evaluate Karen ran during the implementation of her past release right so the concern that was brought on record in the school board meeting was the fact that Tyson bwok who was on the bargaining team was evaluating in Karen and the conflict of interest that presented itself through that Dynamic so if we're looking at the full-time release and the appointment of who is going to supervise or evaluate her wouldn't that conflict of interest argument still exist and that was the the the main hangup with with Karen Ren's release was the conflict of interest and who was going to evaluate her so I just think that if we can focus on the part-time release that would alleviate us from even having to ponder over that question and get us closer to a resolution because that question isn't even an issue with respect to the implementation of of a part-time release so if we're considering full-time release we have to consider the Dynamics of um who would be in this evaluation or supervisory role um from the from the initial outset of it to avoid that conflict of interest that presented itself in in um president Ren's implementation so so what you're saying is in the part-time scenario there would be the regular classroom duties evaluation and then with when they're on whether you call it leave or release there would be no evaluation connected to that time correct right and Julie may be able to answer this question so if someone is on unpaid unpaid leave are they evaluated so I think that that's answer that question too that would make him um and and and um he he'll be the only one that would appli that would be applied to with respect to all other board employees that are on are on unpaid leave so this collective bargaining agreement doesn't have a requirement nor does board policy to my understanding have a requirement for those that are un on unpaid leave to be evaluated so why would uh president theobalt when we're establishing in the very first sentence of the full-time release that it's unpaid leave so if if we're establishing in the very first paragraph that it's unpaid leave then why would we have to justify doing um uh an evaluation and he would be the only one that would be on unpaid leave being evaluated I think that that separates him from all of the other employees of the board that's on him paid leave uh Gary just I think you know when you compare it to miss resin's leave there was pay for performance and she was receiving the benefits as if she was teaching right she received all her benefits as if she was teaching so I think they were just trying to and it was our first time doing this ever since it was a contract from 1999 so they're trying to toll all the things that happen when someone is on a teacher on special assignment so she could get those benefits so at that time they were trying to conform with a teacher having evaluation so they would get performance pay um so they would get the millage all those other things so when you're looking at it from this point of view if we if the partial release is accepted there will be an out evaluation from a teacher in the classroom perspective and then maybe just the terms of the agreement can set forth anything else that happens while Matt is is performing the presidential duties in the rest of the day so we don't have any gray area there and I guess is there a even a I think we skipped ahead on what really my biggest question was trying to anticipate all the questions we'll get is when you're talking about part-time release um just the concept itself I know it can take many functions the draft that you've got right now I think it just brings up the topic but it doesn't Zone in on like how does that look like I is it working a part of a day is it so many days out of the school year you would get for that release like how would you want that to look cuz if you're working and Matt might be able to correct me Middle School am I right on that no I'm I'm a a high school teacher by trade but um I had one in three shot so yeah yeah um and actually Terry not not to not to add salt to the wound but uh if if of those three Middle School would probably be the last place I'd ever want to work it's the hardest I get it my respect for Middle School teachers is is uh profound for sure um but but you you know I I think there's a couple of different different ways that you could look at that um I I actually saw on social media that a teacher was hired on at one of the high schools um and uh had agreed to a part-time position where she could only work the afternoons um in which case if there was a part-time position like that um I could serve you know in the morning um filling in the other half of of that part-time request and obviously that would be you know five days a week you know subject to the same you know school schedule as as everybody else um you know just just spitballing um you know something to the effect of um well and I know I know it's still an issue but but it was definitely an issue when I was um at at Martin County High School um they were always looking for Subs um to to cover classes and um you know there when they would ask for teachers to give up their planning period um and and cover another teacher's classes um you know I could I could make myself available um you know for however many periods a day um you know to to cover classes because the need the need is great um and whether that's at one school or or I think doing it at multiple schools might complicate things but um you know whatever whatever the need would be um I would I would certainly be available to to fit that need um and then i' I've I've talked to some other administrators in the past who um have whether it be I wouldn't say virtual options but um you know there there are other jobs that wouldn't necessarily require um you know full-time service so I I think there's at least three different ways that that we could go about that um it would just be about you know filling the need and also whatever allows me to you know serve serve the teachers you know in um in in whatever you know whatever capacity and and I agree Julie I think whatever we decide would be would be very specific you know um I think I think that that's a necessity um as as well um you know so so I I don't I don't want to create a position you know um well I'm trying to think of who who who said it a a fake position you know I'm I'm I'm a teacher I want to be a teacher and and uh you know um I want to serve the teachers and the students of of the school district the best way that I can yeah and I think it would be it would probably have to mean on a part-time work strategy whether it's full assignment for the year for half the day I think that's probably questions we will have to talk through separate from here because I don't know from a planning perspective how that would work that's probably principes some some discussions that we need to have but the reason I asked just the overall part-time question is obviously I think if that was something that was entertained we will have to narrow it down to spec specify part-time means this so that there's clear expectations it's this many days or it's this much hours of the day and the reason I ask also is just trying to to make sure that if there is an obligation because all school districts are required to have evaluation systems in place for instructional and administrative Personnel that if we are placing you in a position that falls under that umbrella we just got to do it in a way that complies with state law and so if it's a that's why I was wondering if the if the language release like if it was released for temporary Duty elsewhere does that create a new position it may not if it's if it's a part-time if you're if you're retained as a teacher instructional personnel and you receive your evaluation the fact that you may be given 20 days I'm just making up 20 days of release time to engage in other activities may not draw a requirement along with it that there be an evaluation for those other temporary Duty activities that would be performed so that might give some flexibility versus a full-time like if you were not working in the classroom and it was a full-time temporary duty position I don't know how we would I don't know how other districts Do It um but I just that that's my concern is it's it's just making sure that whatever is done we have to comply with evaluation protocols and I think also so the reality is the timing of this I'm I I will say I'm not sure that and Martin I think you even mentioned it when we met the first time that this is maybe something coming out of the blue a little bit with the part-time idea um I don't know obviously we have a client we've got to talk to too to talk through this issue so that's why I think at least me personally I'm asking so many questions and trying to go down the different hypotheticals it's just trying to anticipate as much as possible understanding that school year starts in less than 30 days so there's a little bit of a time crunch here too um so on the part-time it sounds like at least the concept is more of Interest right now as opposed to we want it to be halime this it's more of are you open to this and then if so what are the kind of nuts and bolts of how it would work yeah I mean I think we wanted to give you those those layout we want we didn't obviously know what the board was going to be open to so we didn't put a full detail here's how it will work because it you know it's going to depend on the school's needs the district's needs and everything but to Julie's point if there is a if there is a part-time position already in existence then that I mean again subject to the needs right we want to build those needs but if that position exists then that makes a lot lot of sense to me right if there is if there is someone who's working halftime in the afternoon presumably there's someone working the other half in the morning and that position makes a lot of sense in this in this sort of circumstances that's again you know Gary may have better opinions that's how it works in in most part-time places you work half day and and work the morning teaching your normal classes under the normal schedule normal obligations you know parent teacher conference you know the whole nine yards you're just a you're just working morning and then that you know whatever 12:30 1:00 whatever time that half day is you're you're you're on leave right that's the same way that this person that Matt just discussed or the way that the the um the CBA considers to's comment um uh job sharing or what have you right that that's that's the concept that I think is probably most often but to to Matt's point there are he's been personally the need has been expressed to him by other administrators like you know what we really need is to help fill these gaps for people who you know are monitoring exam proctoring exams and there's just daily needs as you guys all know we all know and everyone watching probably knows in the education world every school has daily needs to fill in vacancies right and so if that makes more sense we're open to that but if if it makes sense to just have like a set you know you work Monday Wednesday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday your classes are periods one two three four and you have five six seven leave right like that's the way it works for part-time employees then that may make it make it easier for everyone to to accept right that's already something that happens um and so so but we didn't know that and so we just kind of put put it out there as a concept and then we we definitely want to agree for both sides benefits to have some some you know established expectation right I think that's right we just didn't know what that was do you Gary and in does Indian River or okachobee do any time of part-time any type of part-time release that we're talking about here that you're aware of yeah so Indian River's President is on part time it's on part-time release did they work part of the day and then go on part-time release the other part of the day yeah they work the first half of the day in the district and then they're outside of the dist and in that um in that second half is they schedule all of the the meetings all of the um meetings that they would normally attend etc etc so yeah it's it's in the classroom for the first half of the day and um by 12:30 I believe she's uh released and and works the rest of the day capacity do they evaluate her in that other half of the day or is it just the teaching portion of the day do you know well that question came up um in our our last discussion but um I guess unfortunate for us and unfortunate for president Freeland she was in in Greece and she just she's just returning so I have to catch up with with her this afternoon and get those uh questions answered okay I mean it's it's it's ultimately it's a legal question that you would think uh those of us lawyers on the line will be able to figure out the answer but I'm just that's why I'm I'm bringing it up so much it's just that mandate um so we can figure that through that um I think we can confidently say that it's not a foreign um concept that we're we're requesting it's being implemented successfully um in other districts and um while I also have have your attention the questions and concerns about the implementation of the part-time position how it would work the hours that he would spend uh in the classroom and what time he would be released just all of the the bells and whistles on how would we it would be implemented can that be uh in included or or um contained in in the contract that this mou references would be attached as appendix B because it would prevent us from having to carve time out to try to put that in this document but when that position is secured and that contract is written those details could be um expounded upon in that contract that's um attached to appendix B and and we may be able to to work all of the the brass tax in that manner without holding up the agreement in principle to to release him is that a possibility when you need to have though sorry Martin no yeah I think that's right I mean but it but again to to assume that contract exists right just like the annual contract exists the the parttime contracts exist if the district's employing part-time employees right so that should be relatively easy to come across I would think I'm I'm speaking out of turn again I keep doing that but I mean I think we can Julie I think we might have a whole lot more answers after today later on today I think the concept the ideas the is this doable is this not doable I just think separate from the board um just some administrative level discussions too about implementation wise and I know it's done elsewhere um but I just don't know as we sit on July 15th have hiring decisions been made or there is there flexibility for part-time positions at this time I just don't I don't think we know that but I think those are questions that we can ask once we're done here but it it does sound like though at least from what Matt said that the the part-time approach is flexible in terms of is it mornings is it sub and so we'll just have those Chats on our end and try to figure it out I think we just went in with the expectation that we'd be talking about full-time release just like we did last go around um I think your proposals on that one really it's the same questions as it relates to evaluations and who supervisor is I think those can be navigated to comply with the law whatever that may be um and the rest of it I mean I I don't think those are things that we can't work through uh that or that we don't need a further explanation from you on I feel Julie at least I don't know if you have any further questions on the other portions of the full-time release just the you know the indemnification language we can we can work through that on our end and get you some feedback pretty quick um J what about you did you have think I stopped you at one point where you may have had questions as we were working through one of them well I I was kind of looking through some of my resources on what other districts have partial release so in Indian River They Don't Really lay out anything Gary about evaluation or it just says 0 five and then if they get the full release Grant they get full release so there's nothing we can really borrow from there unless there's some internal dock you have access to and I saw Santa Rose pole County Flagler St John's uh Hamilton and this was the fen one and then I have a whole book of other ones that I think Gary sent me a while ago that I kept copies of so I don't know if anyone really lays it out but just knowing Martin County the more we lay it out and have it black and white then the less chance we have of a gray area of an interpretation and that for all of our benefits is what I'm looking for so I don't have to go oh gez what are we going to do in this instance I want to be able to say it's right here it's signed off on it's board approved and we're following everything and there's no interpretation even though I know it still happens because they approve statutes all the time and then we're figuring out how to apply them right so the but the best we can that's what I'm really looking for so I like um what we've been talking about about partial release it I like the fact that it would be morning um Matt does a lot of committees um I know Insurance Committee in the afternoon he comes to and he'll be on evaluation committee for a while so you know in presidential release I'm sure we'll keep him busy in the afternoon but maybe the morning work um but again not knowing or having as Terry mentioned time to look through to see Matt certifications and what openings we have and where he might land um is something else we'll have to look at internally um as well so I the evaluation part would come from the teaching because he would be on a teacher assign not a teacher on special assignment he might be you know ninth grade teacher at you know South Fork or Martin County you know or Jensen so and then it' just be temporary Duty leave basically so you'd still be evaluated in your function as a teacher and then when you go do the union activities it'd be temporary Duty leave um which wouldn't carry with it the evaluation instrument I wouldn't think correct no there's no reason to do that as long as you've got what you want the agreement Terry that that the board has articulated that protects the district while Matt is working in a different capacity yeah and that I think I I don't think we will have a difficulty working around that one coming up with language that's suitable for both sides um okay good so I think it's just I mean it's I think we have some homework on R end to try to do I mean what you've presented makes sense from a what are you trying to accomplish here is it enough for us to be able to break that down and run through our our our team to see implementation wise I just was randomly searching for open position uh High School teaching positions online while we were talking to see if there were any open um there actually is one um but it's for a full-time position so we'll talk through and see uh um I know we are TimeWise we have a meeting at 5: today where we'll be able to get a lot of these questions answered I still go back the school year starts on is it August 12th is that right that's buts in the seats but the contract will start a the 1 isn't it yeah it is you're right so that's when we have new we have to have new educator orientation and and um you know all those things that happen at school before our kids come to make sure we're ready have lots of Law changes everything so so Terry um I know you just said that that you know all the positions you looked up were full-time um I don't know um I I've I've not looked at positions in The District in a very long time but I based on the conversations that I had in in preparing for for this meeting um jobs may be posted as full-time and it may be the expectation of whatever applicant um to find a part-time you know a counterpart to their to their part-time replacement so it may be it may not necessarily be listed as a part-time and um opportunity um yeah so I don't want that to preclude you know whatever options might might be available um but but you know when you when you talk to the board I mean um without uh you know um you know the the administrator that I spoke to said uh that for the the particular part-time application you know that that was posted or advertised on Facebook um there was there was only one applicant um who came to the the district's job fair um this past this past week um and showed up in in her farming clothes with with ripped jeans um so I I I may be wearing shorts right now but I'm definitely not showing up to the job in my farming clothes um so so you know I don't know what other applicants have been you know have made themselves available since we had that conversation but it didn't look like it it looked like that position was was going unfilled so um so there there's definitely there's at least one solid option there um and you know as far as teaching out of field goes and Julie you know correct me if I'm wrong um my my certificate is social studies 6 through 12 um but you know as long as you know let's say it's an ESC position right um I could take the ESC certification test um and I would only be out of field until I passed that certification test um and I've not been out of field in in my career previously um so so there's there's that as as well so I wouldn't I I'm a pretty decent test taker so um it's reasonable to assume that that I could could pass any certification exam that I needed to um so long as it wasn't like physics or calculus or anything like that I full disclosure that that is well outside my wheelhouse um but uh but yeah any anything else I would I would definitely be be able to handle that for for sure okay um so then if if it would need to take place before August one I know we left off on this board meetings tomorrow then next board meeting after that is not till you said Julie you said some trim meetings yes um there I don't know if you can still hear me I'm grabbing it off my wall because I still hang stuff on paper um so the meeting tomorrow there's two trim meetings the 22nd and the 29th and and I did mention to Mr main would it be possible and he he said it's possible he would have to check with the board chair and then there's a workshop on the 6th which would still get them in place prior to school starting and then August 20th is the actual regular meeting so there is some possibility maybe wiggle room based on the board chair's um approval for an item to be placed down there so that could be something on the agenda that you and I develop for this evening about timeline and what we might be able to do should we come to an agreement yep um okay yep I wrote you got the 22nd and the 29th are trims the sixth is a workshop and the 20th is a regular meeting yes sir okay I think what we should do now then is do you want to set up a third day uh once we're able to get all that feedback where we can come back and present any any proposals back um obviously we're on a short window I don't I don't think there's we're not working with an open book right now so there's not a lot to come back with so scheduling wise what what works Julie on your end and then U Matt Gary Martin yours as well at least for me the 18th looks really good um at board meetings tomorrow tomorrow we're usually busy but I could also do something in the morning on the 17th 18th is pretty good on my end too for what it's worth like one on I'm good believe it or not probably Jeff how about you too I'm sorry jie no go ahead I'll mute myself 18 I 18th I can do 18th and 19th I'm out I can make it work if we need to but okay just in case I'm good for the 18th and the 17th as well for that matter 17th I can do afternoon would be preferable yeah that works for me anytime after I think yeah noon that's fine you want to hold yeah that'd be good all right all right are you um I have a program meeting on our volunteers with our principles because we're changing that from 1:30 to 2:30 but I could move it around I have the room booked for quite some time um could you do it around that meeting like what time is that meeting that you have run from uh30 to 2:30 just want to do it after your meeting if everybody could do that yeah that would be great that works you want to say 2:30 to 4:30 just do two hours again 2:30 to 4:30 on the 17th yeah lock it off yep Terry as you just as an as side as you look at the the evaluation requirements anything on that that that you can send me out it's not a legal issue I've ever explored so I'm going to kind of have to start from scratch on what what requirements are held but if you can point me in a in a positive direction that would be helpful if not I'll I'll do my own research yeah no and and I'll tell you the premise that it's coming from is just the general requirement that school districts have evaluation systems for instructional and administrative personnel and if a full if a person is placed on unpaid leave but in a as the arbitrator said there's a way to put you in a position to where you're drawing F FRS and you're considered to be an employee ah how would you that that's my issue is like okay if it can be done then how does it not have some evaluation component with the point that you made Martin and I'll reiterate what you said I I don't think we're trying to evaluate whether the mcea is happy with their president um would I think we're on the same page there and I'm just I just wanted to make sure I'm reading the same kind of requirements to see if there's if I can suggest any wiggle room there and I don't know that I'll be able to but I'll I'll at least look that's what I'm going to be looking at too is is if the fulltime is hypothetically if the full time's the only option what can we do there considering the time issues can just as a complete nonse well not it's not nonse but I and as I don't know this stuff right so Julia will just be like you dummy but um the uh can can can he be on a can you be a can he be a teacher on special assignment in a non-instructional position and does that bypass the need to have instructional positions evaluated it I don't know the answer to that or maybe a dumb question but um but you said instructional positions and it just kind of put in my head it's not a thing because he is he is an instructor yeah it' be the non-classroom instructional Personnel right there's a non classroom evaluator position evaluation but all of our mcea positions get evaluated whether face you know they're face to face or they're they're not they're all they all get evaluated makes sense on the tool sense makes sense because you gota stay in the bargaining so that makes sense Martin don't negotiate me out of the bargaining unit now I know I know I know I know I I just said that I just said that we got to keep you in the bargaining unit we gotta keep you in the bargaining un all right J yeah I'll look at it okay so so then we're set for this team as uh come back in the sun on Wednesday and I think we'll be in a way better spot to share feedback at that time does that work thank you guys thank you very much this Zoom link okay we should have it already and I we have the documents we need Terry for this evening to share yep with the board yep and then Julie can we stay on when coun logo and Matt I'm working on your I I got an email that you're that we nuked all your logins or something that is correct yeah and I think it's because you probably don't have a 24 25 assignment and it's just a thing um that if people don't have an assignment then we take you out of credentialing for security so I'm working on the back end with Jeff Raymond and ET um but they let us know today you must have contact Ed them I'm not sure but yeah um it it I I reached out to Katie Bond the same day that I we spoke about it here on on on the zoom so um she she had said she had said basically exactly what you told me that it's something that that automatically happens and that uh you guys are working to fix it so I I appreciate that um the the other thing that I just wanted to to tell everybody um because we talked about you know when we did the uh arbitration award last time um I was I was tracking down some bills um so you want can I go off record for this we're still recording we're still recording yeah I want to go off record for this so we don't have any more for this negotiation we set up a follow-up time for July 17th at 2:30 and I'm going to stop recording now sorry Matt yep no no no that's fine I was going to ask you to do that as well --------- red there on the top left corner recording has started does everyone see that recording started so okay so at 1310 thank you Julie so so then I guess we'll you know we've we've got the agenda I know Julie put that together um there were two items on the agenda think since since we're going to conduct this like we would have any other bar probably makes a good idea I know Jeff is probably the new new person to the room as is Martin um just for everybody to quickly introduce themselves and this helps for the record purposes my name is Terry Harmon uh Council to the school board um as it relates to labor discussions also here with Jeff Slanker from our Law Firm I know not sure Gary Matt or I know Martin you know Jeff very well but um Jeff's also a lawyer at our firm that that works on labor issues and and helped with theou and some of the issues that we're going to be talking about today so uh we're here and then Julie I'll let you if you want to introduce yourself as well yes I'm Julie cessa I'm the assistant Su superintendent of human resources and serves in the capacity of the chief negotiator um as well yeah um just for the record at Martin Powell Council to Martin County Education Association um for the purposes of the arbitration and and working out this pres presidential release leave um and with me I'll let Matt and Gary introduce themselves although I think you guys know them yep and for the record uh Matt theal uh president of the Martin County Education Association and I'm Gary Simmons Service Unit director for the treasure CL Service Unit that includes Martin County Education Association for the Florida Education Association okay and so I'll just kind of jump in maybe kick it off um and and obviously feel free to jump in I know what we were looking to do to during today's um publicly noticed bargaining session was to address the issue of um presidential leave I guess we'll call it to for short uh for the upcoming school year I know as it sits right now there's a request um from Mr theal to Theobald to have that request renewed um and we have the arbitration award which is a separate issue that addressed some issues related to presidential leave uh so what we wanted to try to accomplish during this session was really to focus narrowly this is again school board's perspective on this was to address leave for the upcoming school year we still have our regular collective bargaining sessions that will need to get scheduled where we can address articles in contract language but with it being July right now school year getting ready to kick underway um is really to focus today's session on uh potentially reaching a tenative agreement through anou on implementation of the leave for this coming school year at least so we can get that under our belt and then we would address the language in the CBA through the normal collective bargaining process so that was our our our thoughts for today um what we tried to do to make it a useful session is we worked separately uh and I know you all have not seen anything yet but we tried to put together a draft of a memorandum of understanding that we can share and go over I know since we're tool it's a little different than handing over pieces of paper across the table so I can share my screen or I can oh uh well I can email it to you or I can just drop it in the chat box um and we can go over it together if you just want to receive it and then maybe caucus talk about it amongst yourselves but what we tried to do just to kind of lay a little Foundation is we tried there were some things that were previously done uh I know with prior mcea president there was some language from one of the arbitration Awards and then there was some of the desire of our side we tried to memorialize that as simply as we possibly could uh in anou so is it let me see if I can if I go to the chat feature I believe yeah I can add a file to it and then you'll be able to take it and if we want to take a break to review it um whatever work for you so let me see real quick if I can save it oh you can you can share um yeah but they they may want to chat understood I'm just I'm not used to teams a whole lot we just switched to it July one right Gary I I love teams well so do I have to allow you to share just in case you want to I can just drop it in the chat box and they'll be able to get a copy of the file let me see really Qui quick make sure okay yep I can do this add see if you all are able to pull this out of the chat box in a second is it 710 yep oh so so far it's recorded like when we started recording and who's here but I don't see it in there it says external users don't have permission to this file but let me make sure I can well then I can fix it I don't know what whiteboard is you may have to send it to me shop it Gary I had lunch you're G to be really happy about that they struggling with teams Gary you're muted so you can't even say anything to her he was trying I see it on my on my box as well I'm just seeing if it'll open up great y on oh I got it too okay great so does it make sense Martin do you want to take a break or do you wanna how do you want to handle it now to be able to look at it and talk can I send them into a room yeah it might make sense to take a break so we can have a conversation I don't know if it's a out room in the teams or if we should just put us on mute and and call each other what is the best easiest way to do that you probably should sign off my guess and then we'll stop recording and then when you sign back into the meeting the three of you we'll just start recording again and that way the three of us can chat while you're off okay you guys Matt Gary okay with that okay let's do that so we'll sign off come right back same link okay see it I see oh there okay at 209 okay all right so we've uh returned from our caucus here at 210 like um we said um so we haven't had the chance to like really Redline and go through things but we have some some kind of we've gone through the whole thing and have some comments questions um to to talk through and hopefully that'll be fruitful is is our thought and and you know wherever we end up we can we can Redline um so as far as you know the standard kind of whereas stuff you know the the entry paragraph we don't have any concerns about the time period that we're talking about um we don't have any concerns about number one which acknowledges that that you know we um president theal submitted their request I don't have any concerns about number two um or three which outlines the terms right um so I have a question comment about number four which is just in our conversations um you know we heard in the arbitration you know that the board didn't even consider Matt a an employee and that he was kind of you know out out the pasture and so we wanted to at least float the idea and this conversation of a of a part-time Arrangement rather than a full-time Arrangement so that he can be considered an employee um I know this kind of solves some of those problems but it also may present an opport opportunity to kind of respond to some of the issues that the board raised about you know his classification and so we wanted to kind of raise that U because I think you know the Education Association would be at least open to the idea it would keep Matt closer to the classroom it would keep him engaged it would solve the the evaluation part because he would have an evaluator it would kind of solve some of these um some of these kind of around the edges issues now it create potentially some as we kind of have to create like a part-time schedule for them and get those classes you know half day or whatever that looks like but we wanted to float that out there because um I think it might it might address some of the concerns the board raised throughout the last year this process and it might also benefit um benefit mcea so I didn't know if that was something you guys wanted to discuss or were open to discussing but it was something that we we had thought about kind of in response to all of the cons conerns raised in the arbitration that we went through about about the uh about the arrangement and trying to kind of come up with something that you know and again met you at least in tried to meet you part of the way down the road into some of the board's concerns into some of the the the um the nonf fungible issues around this release time so that was kind of the first thing and I think it has an effect throughout obviously if that was something that you'd be interested in um you know we could obviously just put in you know uh into this like part or full-time release you know and and come up with an agreement on that but but I wanted to at least float that um initially to see if if that was something you thought there was an appetite for um it seems to solve a lot of problems or some problems at least but but anyway so that was kind of the first thing um that I think did everyone leave no there you are um my view changed here but um but yeah so that was the first part on for to see if if if I don't know if it for us to go through everything for us to talk about each item separately what is your preference I can go through each one as we're going I think this is effective I can give you my my two cents um on the question so as as I'm just kind of thinking through it you're you would Envision if it was a part-time scenario where in the classroom for a portion of a work day and then another portion of the work day would be presidential leave time yeah I think that's yeah okay that that's I think the best example of that I think we have in the the region is Indian River who does like a 0. five situation I think their president teaches in the morning and not in the afternoon I think is how they've arranged it Gary will probably know better than me but um but that's that's kind of the most uh but yeah anyways yes answer your question I do have Indian Rivers language probably from Gary in my book I also see Santa Ros that has um partial release as well right yep yep yep and I'm familiar with that I guess the thing I would say to that is candidly our approach to this session with theou that we put together was contemplating the way that the presidential leave has been done in the past and the way it's written which was if you sign up for that it's for one year so I I don't know if the three of us at the table without having I mean that's more of a bargaining issue for purposes of the contract language because it doesn't contemplate parttime in the contract I think that might be better served for um a different session or we would potentially have to have another executive session because we we did not contemplate that that approach to this in advance of today so I think that's that might require another session okay well let me but I know the concept I'm very familiar with what you're saying concept wise um having had some experience in that yeah I know it's something that happens elsewhere I just thought it we thought it might address some of the board's kind of non like I said non-fungible non kind of yeah things we get our hands around some of the concerns that were raised at the board meeting and and in arbitration so um so we'll we'll kind of keep that out there perhaps as a as a potential idea um to hold on to I I didn't remember the contract actually identifying it as a specific release I know it said for a year um but we'd still be talking about that I didn't remember talking about the specific full-time versus part-time versus anything um but but I'll I'll pull that up um as well um all right any any responses that I need yeah the other thing I would I I want to add one thing to it just and this may be help explain what you what you address initially which is like what's the classification I think um as as as we've looked at it from an FS perspective in order for you to continue to participate in F FRS there needs to be an assignment or a position that's why we use the teacher on special assignment position um so so with the evaluation language that we put in there the who do you report to language again that was all trying to tie it back to what can we do internally here at the district that worked for purposes of f FRS in the past and would still keep that classification appropriate so that's the reason we went with that language is it worked in the past and we didn't draw a red flag as I understand it um is that what was done with missr Andy that same position and and it it passed muster that's why we went with that um that so that's just the quick background on why we why we chose to go with that language yeah uh no I think that's right I think that's how how it's kind of works across the the other across the state too as far as making they need a a position right I think that makes sense yes okay um anything I missed Gary or or Matt that you wanted to address no I I I just wanted to say Terry though that that um should it come to you know you bringing that back to the board um at least in in my mind where where where I'm coming from is that um I thought that that would be helpful you know we're not we're not looking at that as as a as a I understand that that changes the approach here and it would require some tweaks here but overall we we wanted to to put that out there in an attempt to to be helpful we're not trying to complicate things or or um you know throw a curveball last minute um we just we just wanted to throw that out there in an attempt to be help helpful we're not trying to you know be duplicatus in in in any way shape or form I just wanted wanted just wanted that clear for the record that's all okay I understand no I get I get it was an attempt to address concerns is how I'm I'm taking it from you um but is that something separate from today is that something I mean that I guess would just looking at the language of the collective bargaining agreement my guess is if there was going to be a proposal as to part-time structure that might be something You' that would need to be proposed in that context but um I just can't answer that today for time purposes yeah take a look at it because I think I think it leaves um I mean you know my position on all this right the contract is Broad and then theou narrows it I think the contract language is very Broad and so I think it gives us a lot of ability in anou to make this work um for both parties um so so do take a look at that because I think I think what I'm looking at here looks looks impossible but but yeah I mean again we just thought it would help but um I'll bring it up I will I will bring it up um all right then I'm gonna skip on to uh five which again I think you know as related to what we talked about part release time that could be you know that would probably end up being proportionate um expense you know we would pay proportionately and I think that's going to carry through that would carry through based on that's why I wanted to address that kind of at the top is if that was something that we could come to it would kind of carry through a lot of these things um so that's that's the uh that's the main thing on on that um otherwise I think that we acknowledge that the goal of this is that MCA will kind of pre-burst the board for the costs associated with these benefits but that mat would remain eligible for them if it is something that we pay for right both employee and employer contribution um the only Nuance added today is that if if the board was desirable or open to the part-time I conversation that that would be one of our conversation points would be proportionate um splitting of some of these expenses um yeah it would have to change the whole thing I mean you're you're right it would have to break it up based on what time in the classroom versus direct repres presentation activities or if it was just a set hour um that would be that's what I've done before too yeah and I yeah I think that yeah so we could just we could look at people that have done that I don't think it's too complicated but one explanation to to provide you I know you're still going through but on number six um on six bi the $1,500 language just to explain that it it As I understood what was done with Miss ranti there was like a prepayment and then they the board would the the the mcea would prepay and then the board would draw against that and it was never an issue it was always done correctly um there was never a point in time where the board was basically prefunding and so if it works that way it's perfect what we were just trying to do anticipating if a question came up of what what happens if there was a shortage where mcea prepaid but then the cost of benefits and salary for whatever reason exceeded it we were just trying to build in like a I don't want to say a deposit but basically like a buffer that at the end of the school year we would just return what happened make it to where we never exceeded so that was that was the the reason for that I think we saw that um because we did have a question about it obviously I think you identified that because our thought is that paying the month in advance and get I mean the board invoicing it right so the board invoices what the salary expenses are going to be and we pay it a month in advance kind of establishes the need for a for a security deposit type thing and so I think that both of those are kind of I don't think it's un necessary to do both of them as kind of what our thought is if paying a month in advance the board's the one actually doing the invoicing so if there's an overpayment or underpayment like I I think the board would know what they're going to be paying um so my hope would be that that would be the case and I like I said I do think it worked out um with with Miss retes so I mean I our our our I guess I guess our thought would be one or the other and I think the prepayment of a month in advance is probably preferable because it gives a larger sum and uh and more more of a more of a cushion than the $1500 but that seems to be be an extra so um you know that that was our thought on that because we did look at that and seems a little redundant to have both of those needed it is now that you say that out loud I I agree if you're prepaying a month in advance if you're paying in January what's going to be done in February and February's payroll and benefits roll out and it looks like it's going to be $500 more than what that was prepaid I assume I mean we would just draw down yeah so it the the I hear what you're saying so is it Jeff I think wouldn't it just be the language we had previously about you know if there's ever basically a deficit that mcea would would fill that deficit within so many days yeah I mean I think that that yeah and that was language we had worked through and that might be something that you know if there's some unexpected you know I don't I don't know what it would be or the likelihood of that happening but some type of unexpected change and a benefit premium or something for that matter that for some reason it cannot be anticipated um typically we would anticipate like say he added family coverage or something which would definitely bump up right that would still be a month in advance yeah right and I think I think we would agree to I think you know we'll talk about when we see the specific language but we would agree to the concept like we don't we don't want the board to be we want MCA to prepay all expenses we don't want the board to pay anything out of pocket that they all already have money in the bank for um so so we're in agreement with the concept and so if we need to put something in there that says if they're unexpected expenses beyond what is invoiced like submit another invoice and within next days we'll we'll pay that too right because I think month gives us that time to do I think I understand it I think it's unlikely but you know we' want you know a bunch of lawyers on the call we want to prepare for all possibility um okay um talk about that um the the evaluation piece again I think that we talked a little bit as a parktime piece that we he would have an evaluation if he was part-time uh we have two two questions about that about this evalu valtion um and and one's kind of on the back of last year right which is that the that was a conversation under Karen's retes too and ultimately just so you know the evaluation never got finalized right so the idea that this is required is like okay maybe but if it didn't actually happen then how much of requirement is it actually um and and so you know there's a little bit of a question internally about how that's you know how that even works right like he's full-time release you're evaluating him on his D on his representation of members or his bargaining against you like I I don't love that right I don't love the idea of submitting the president who is supposed to be wearing a cap similar to the superintendent being a valuated by somebody that the superintendent designates to have I it it sits all wrong with me just from a concept a concept a union concept um so I'm not not not super excited about it I think um I would also kind of you know if we can get past that kind of major hurdle I think that we would we would have a concern about just letting the superintendent designate we would probably want to have a mutual agreement right but in general I mean I'd like to hear a little bit more about why we feel like the union President should be evaluated by the management employer in their Union president role like I don't I don't feel good about that at all no no and I in brainstorming that out with you I I would also be it would be a tricky situation to have to have a school district evaluate whether or not the mcea president performed his duties or her duties as mcea president in an appropriate way that just would be I'm not sure a bridge that anybody wants to Cross or deal with uh and that's not the intent um I think my our concern is if if you're if you're an employee of the district you're placed in a position um there is an evaluation instrument that typically attaches to that how would we I mean it's a good question Martin and I don't think anybody wants to sit down and say well you didn't do a great job at that arbitration so it's not at all what intent and I I think so I I I think that's open for discussion I just don't know how best to evaluate whether it would be that I just don't know I I don't know what the right tool is so we went with what worked with Karen but to your point if it wasn't actually completed I just don't know how that would play out for purposes of policies and for purposes of the requirement to evaluate employees so I think yeah I mean I think well I don't yeah statutorily the performance pay we do negotiate that and that's based on evaluation so if they're not evaluated then they wouldn't get performance pay or how would we I mean right now the way we did salary this year it'd be 100 bucks so it's not a big deal I mean performance pay because we put my money and years of service so uh what's the experience uh Gary and you have any from where they eval how do they evaluate others I mean not Indian River is part-time the one in Hernando I just read printed it actually gave it to Hernando says they'll be evaluated by an administrator but it doesn't say what tool I was just trying to research that a little bit on evaluation but if performance pay eventually is is put back where there's you know more dollars associated with it then how do we how do we do that me mechanism that's statutorily required when they they're not evaluated I yeah I don't I don't know if Gary if you have experience in anyone with a full-time release leader on on this situation I I don't I don't know that it's come across it as an issue ever so I don't know how they've been working on it um I can make some inquiries with respect to how was done in Indian River I I don't know that answer off the top of my head though most of mine has been where it's a part either it's a parttime it's a part-time release where a teacher still functions in the classro um if I'm if I'm truly brainstorming without doing any research I think it would the evaluation would just be I mean did you per did you not VI like not violate board policy did you not violate the law did you you know were you present at sessions did employees complain about representation like I'm trying to think of something that wouldn't require us to delve into the business of the Union which is not not our place policy to to the point even even like the description of the president is managed by like what the membership wants the president to be by their governing documents right so even doing that I think is somewhat difficult let's let's a I mean we I guess that means we'll have to come back but we have to do some inquiries on that to figure it out and I think I mean if we come up with something I don't know what the non-classroom teacher observation tool is I mean I don't think any of us really do but um if we have to come up with something I mean let's I guess how this is even done if there's like pay associated with it then we don't want to forgo that necessarily but I we don't want to agree to yeah evaluate Matt's job at the bargaining table or whatever understood and if so I think it should probably just be the superintendent right like the superintendent and thatt can be the ones on the same page there um that makes more sense to me but um but let's let's Gary can you help me in like making some inquiries on that as far as and I'll do the same I don't know you don't have any other full-time release people though but um I'll try to find some too yeah I can can definitely knock that out we'll look too we'll try to see what we can find out on our end as well yeah I know Hernando I looked at their their teacher on special assignment and um they had like three or four and I was theirs was much more vanilla than the one we have currently from 2005 there fulltime in Hernando are they full-time yes okay and um I don't know if Indian River even if they're part-time they're probably passing them through on that 0 five as just an instructional like team member like fifth grade teacher or whatever they are right oh I'm sorry I mean thinking then what happens with the F FRS and the benefits if it's 0 five then I guess the arrangement is then half of everything still gets paid by the FEA Grant assuming there is one so that it makes it a whole yeah it would just be a proportion and I think that's how it's done every I mean again we're not recreating the wheel here this is this is what happens right so we just need to have that maybe even have that conversation with them um but I think that's right I don't think there's any concern with that F FRS allows all these things to happen we have to tell them so we'll put a pin in uh evaluations I think we just got to figure that out yeah um we don't have number eight sick leave I don't have any concern about that assuming of course that the the the Matt wouldn't be then required to report that he's out sick using sick Le right um he's not getting sickly so he doesn't have to do that right is that that a safe assumption you mean when he's not performing his duties as the union president I mean he's on leave to to perform those functions I I don't I mean I don't believe he would have to re I mean that would be reporting while you're on leave that you're going on leave right well I think that's how it was right because I think Karen was receiving leave on hers and so she was telling people like hey I'm sick today I'm not gonna be I'm gonna be in bed or whatever and she was getting I think I Julie you may be correct me but I think that's what was happening there and this is cleaner than that I think makes more sense to just say like we're not issuing you extra leave days and you're not telling us when you're on leave you work that out with MCA that's that be my thought I would expect it's cleaner actually yeah I think our expectation would be mcea would reach out and say we're not prepaying this whole month because Mr Theobald absconded from his position you know like that there would be a discussion versus not that that would ever happen but like that to me would be the nightmare scenario right is hey our Union president disappeared here's what's going on but it's a good question though I mean I don't think we would have to track the leave while you're on leave performing other duties so that'd be my take but is that a Julie payroll have any would they want to comment on that or should we run that by them just to ask if there's I mean we could we could run run that by them just to ask but like right now I think he's been on leave we we don't have any idea that he's on leave if you're not earning then there's not I mean that's the issue you would just want to keep track of it if you were earning it that you were also reporting it when you use it so I agree correct right we don't want to win the ball because he's earning leaveing not having to tell you it either needs to be both or neither and I think neither more sense so okay okay um so confirm with us with payroll if there's any major issues with that but I think we're on the same page um okay nine I I it's a pretty broad release right so I'm trying to figure out what this actually covers and what the intent of this is actually to cover um you know we we we definitely talked about the workers comp issue 100% on board with that um but as far as like he you know what if he's non-renewed at the end of the school year here and does he have the ability to challenge that what if he's retaliated against or you know does he have the ability to file file anything or you what if he slips and fall is that one of your abil I mean is he treated like a is he treated like a like a citizen or is he treated like he has no rights to do anything for any circumstance under you know for anything right that's what it kind of reads to me like um and I don't know if that's the intention or maybe it is I think if I were to say it in a non onepage paragraph one full page Indemnity language way um is if if there was a loss attributed uh oh did he freeze me yeah I'm frozen not now but you did look at the ceiling so I'm just reminding you that I'm not looking at the CE I'm not I'm I get accused of looking up I'm going to look down at you all from up here um I I think that the the the thought of the board would be that if if there was a loss or a claim or a harm somehow connected to um Mr Theobald performing his duties as president of the Union that that would be something that the union would be responsible for if Matt were to go to a football game as an invite and slips Falls that I think is a I could understand where the union would say we're not on the hook for something like that that's your issue but if you're serving as the Union's president that's where I think our position would be you have to step in and cover that I I yeah I'm trying to remember like board meetings where well what if he's driving from school to school and he gets in a car accident when he's performing president presidential duties he's bringing all his wonderful cookies and everything that he was delivering this here for signatures on stuff you get a cookie right Matt anyway so that's kind of the commentary I've heard from board members was just you know just that he's and he's so I think that's what I recall the indemnification was to like and same thing with the workers comp which could be dicey but we just have to see it have to be reimbursable because we're running it through the payroll yeah like I completely understand that that um explanation it's just the concern with with nine in the first sentence is any and all claims demands suits or other forms of liability so that's the whole Gambit of any scenario so if there's an accusation of of Matt defaming somebody in the role of of his presidency right does that does would that um fall under this this expectation as well you think that um having any and all any and all claims like I could completely understand trimming it down to workers compensation but we deal with a lot of of um we deal with a lot of stuff outside of just the representation portion of it so I think that the any and all parts is is is very very concerning because of of how broad it it tends the interpretation of this language um I think that the second paragraph addresses the board's concerns outside of that lengthy first paragraph does that Gary on that first that first sentence though on number nine does it address at all your concerns keep if you keep reading that where it says that may arise out of granting this full-time temporary Duty assignment like I mean and I think that's what we were trying to get at there is if it's a loss that comes out of working as the union president why would the board be on the hook for that or have to front the defense of something if he's doing it or alleged I guess to have done something while serving as mca's President right I'm trying to think of a scenario in which they would be on the hook for that like so if he has a duty of fair representation allegation against him for one of our members who said I had a meeting with the district you didn't show up etc etc how how is the board on hook for for that I I don't understand how they would even be bought into that situation that's marrying Union business and District business in my opinion so that that's the part that I have a concern I can't think of a scenario in which the the board would be on a hook for anything MCA related as far as him conducting business in MCA capacity you want to email it to me I'll give you one example that I could think of off the top of my head let's say uh go back to to this to the hypothetical Julie brought up if if Matt is driving to a school site to represent a member and is involved in a car accident and because he was negligent he changeed Lane without a turn signal and causes a catastrophic injury the suit is going to be against the Martin County School Board it's not going to be against mcea and that's where we would say no he was acting as the president when that happened and we would turn back to mcea and say this one's on you that's I think an example of the defamation was a great one um but I I just why would the board wouldn't mcea agree in that scenario if that car accident occurred while serving as mca's president that the board would be held harmless in that situation well I I mean I don't understand why the board would I I completely understand your explanation I want I want to say that first and foremost but if he so if he's driving from work to to the office and he gets into a fender bender based upon your um scenario you think that the the person who who he runs into the back of like um he's absm mindedly checking his text messages and he rare in somebody right this guy's getting killed right now and he hasn't done anything wrong my thing is unless he's in a vehicle that's assigned by Martin County that has the Martin County School District logo and Insignia on it how would the person that he run into automatically says I'm going to sue the school district how would they even know that he's employed by the school district he is but he's a teacher on special assignment and he's our employee yeah I think that's a it's it's a huge reach I think it's a huge reach can we take you don't know play of attorneys very well then because I'd rather Sue Martin County scho Deep Pockets find the Deep Pockets yeah find the Deep Pockets no I think I think so look can we take a stab at this language because I don't I actually I want to look at that a little bit to make sure that I'm not speaking out of term but I actually don't think that that in that situation that that we would really dispute that I mean I think we would argue from the pl you know the the in the car accident side that like you know sorry Matt but Matt's on his own like in that situation he's not MCA or Mar SCH but no but um but I think the more the bigger concern is almost it's almost not that first sentence it's almost the second or maybe it's the third part which says any claims brought against the board at any time by theol which is which is super broad because that doesn't cover what you just said that covers you know wrongful termination like you know I mean anything that could happen against him that like that that covers if he's at the football game as a guest that covers if you know that covers anything and I think that's the part that really we want to be concerned with so what if we take a stab at at rewriting this to get assuming that my initial thought is correct that we could get close to what you're saying right because I think we can I want to do a little research on it to make sure I'm not speaking out of turn because it's not my area of the law but uh but I think that's right and so what I wanted to make sure is that we G guarantee that if he's on MCA time MCA job MCA stuff then yes if if if an employer needs to be held liable for something it's probably MCA right not the board but if he's just and he's wronged in some way by the board we're not giving away his right as the union president to challenge that we're not giving right as a citizen to challenge that we're not giving you guys a blank check to say hey we you know good thing signing this you're fired you can't you can't argue anything right like I don't think that's what your intent is but like you know but but I want to make sure that that that is not what we're agreeing to um makes kind of sense it makes all that made sense I think we can take a stab of rewriting nine in a way that is agreeable to everyone and and clear to everyone we're talking about yep I get it MCA just doesn't want to indemnify something beyond what they would normally indemnify something that their president would be hold them responsible for is what you're getting at understood yeah if you want to try to tweak it up I don't and I don't want Matt to indemnify someone personally in some in a capacity that he would otherwise not have to do right um like that he wouldn't do as a as a teacher right as a teacher he wouldn't have to sign that you know um uh gotcha get back on track here um subject to the ter tin yeah subject to all the contract CBA policies I don't any concerns with that um teaching position which he's qualified I don't have any ter any any concerns with that I think that's in the in the actual CBA language um what is a teacher on special assignment contract in 12 so he froze oh you're back I don't know why I keep freezing but you're so cold up there in Tennessee it is freezing in this basement um is is we actually talked about that too is is what does that look like how is that different than an annual contract and I think Miss ranini had had one if I understood a teach on special assignment contract Julie is that is that right yeah all employees get a contract at the beginning of the school year um so it would just say instead of a Spanish teacher at Southfork for Karen it said teacher on assignment but it's the same contract that any teacher would get so is that the same as his annual is just like the assignment that is on his annual contract or is it a separate document just the assignment um well the assignment is comes out of our Erp system so we basically grab our boilerplate contract grab his name and his assignment put it together and then send it to him and ask him to sign it all employees sign a form of their contract based on their like Union or administrator bargaining non- bargaining okay so if I look at 10 above and it says he shall remain subject to the terms of his annual contract is that the same contract that we're talking about question yes I mean I'm happy to send you a blank one that we used last year if you'd like to look at it what we didn't want to do was create something here that then violated the contract that we're going to hand him and ask them to sign at the start of the school year and then he has this SE separate mou that's what we were but the other one is like a couple paragraphs of a one pager that just I think there's salaries on there as well so it's just the annual it's the teacher annual contract with a different position on it is is that what it looks like because we could always attach it and just say that you know at upon the approval of this document theopold will contemporaneously execute a copy of the attached appendix a contract then there's no what does it say concerns yeah that might make sense and um does that make sense to Matt what you understand or Gary like it's just like a it's not a different contract that they're going to create specifically for you but it's just a contract that I think it's like your normal contract it just says teacher on assignment yeah so so as long as that's as long as that's all it is is just a designation I I don't I don't have a problem with with that yeah it's the one that we all approve annually Matt and Skyward that's sent okay that's what we're referring to and it's easily attached but it I mean does does that have any like how do I how do I word this um I mean outside of that document being a designation is there any I mean is that an actual binding contract or is that just a a document that says you're an employee you get paid this amount etc etc what exactly is that that contract um it is uh provided to all employees that we're required to do to send you your because annual contract employees so there is a par paragraph in there that lets you know that there's nothing in there that said you get another contract next year this is it buddy I got you uh so when I read that you sell it to people no I don't I try not to no that's a terrible selling point Martin oh here they contracts all right uh Missing no that's not the one it's fine if I think it's fine if it's what we all are saying it is I think we just want to see it before we and maybe attaching it as an exhibit the it sounds like we're talking about the same thing yeah let me I mean it's instructional annual sample is probably what I'm going I'm gonna send them all okay to Terry right now Y and my initial friend Jeff Slanker because uh Julie sess Jeff Slanker send okay it's called instructional annual sample and then if you are a PSC you get a different one if you're a cc get a different one and then there's a one-year probation sample okay for instructional staff yeah so I just sent them the ones that Mitchell had already approved from last year that we sent out yeah that that's that's just his normal contract it sounds like so yeah we don't have any problem that just wanted to know what it was if it was different and actually if I can if I can interrupt for a second and I apologize um and kind of go back to to 10 and and how it might relate to to number nine um you know the subject to terms of of his annual contact the collective bargaining agreement the policies of the board Etc um you know I'm imagining a scenario where I'm I'm not in a classroom I'm I'm working here at the office and I I post on social media you know about uh a negotiations you know um an announcement for negotiation session um and it you know on there it has a Tim stamp of something that would be normally during the school day um you know we we have folks who who like to look at the union with a fine- tooth com um and you know if I was in the classroom posting while I had kids in the room that would probably be a violation of of board policy somebody could could call me out on that and there there could be you know consequences um you know how how does that work for for number 10 um I mean obviously some of those things wouldn't directly apply I think that you're working in the capacity of of your role as a president so if you're posting something on social media or you're giving an update on negotiations how is that not a function of your role as the president so like I we stay clear away from these outside um hopeful attorneys or or or whatnot that wannab yeah I I I just think that it's hard to differentiate the only thing is that we're establishing is that you're a teacher on assignment right but your full-time job is acting in the capacity of the president of the organization so there's not a Schoolboard um policy that could be applied to say you could only act in your presidential capacity during these hours when you're on full-time leave so just imagine you you're not on full-time leave if you're still um held to to not perform your duties during the course of the academic work day right understood and and so so I I I agree with you Gary on that and and Terry I saw you nodding your head too so yeah yeah I think so I think yeah yeah Matt that the intent there is even though you're on leave and you're on special assignment there are certain obligations when you're a teacher and you work with a school that would apply like don't communicate on social media with children like there are certain things that we that's what I think that's aimed at not exactly yeah yeah not the stuff Gary talked about and and and so in in that light and and I appreciate the clarification in that light if if somebody were to bring an Ethics complaint against me for posting on social media during during the school day as as frivolous as that might be um in terms of of indemnification and and my ability to retali not retal but respond to to that does it feels like nine as written here would would sort of limit my ability to to you know take appropriate action as as is I know we I know we already addressed nine I know we're going to rework it but I'm just that thought popped into my head as as that question kind of kind of came up um and I want to I just want to make sure that that yeah I don't I don't want to I I don't want to to um sorry I'm I'm drawing a blank you know I don't want the board to be on the hook in the car accident scenario any anymore than I want to get in a car accident you know um but I just want to make sure that that if there's somebody or if if that I I have the ability to to defend myself or protect myself if I'm acting in in that capacity okay so that Martin I think that might be better question for you to answer than me but if I hear what Matt you're saying is if you were in a you would not want to be restricted or prohibited if you were in a scenario where you felt you were wronged in some way that you would not be able to have some way to pursue whatever it is you felt you needed to pursue um I think I can answer in the general sense that the indemnification again our intent there is if there is a claim or loss related to things that you are alleged to have done within your capacity as the mcea president the board would not want to be on the hook for that um if hypothetically I mean ethic when you say ethics too you're talking PPS ethics professional practices services I don't I I guess I I'm I'm not sure what the question is but I hear the concern I don't know what I you're you're I you're you're summarizing it fairly well I think you're doing I'm just trying to figure out where you're going but I get the I get what you're saying but I don't know what I can say in response to that that would answer any questions I think I think you know two I think a couple things I I'll respond to as as I can I don't know I think that your obligation to subject to the terms of the CBA and the annual contract and the principles of professional conduct kind of come along with you being an employee of the board and holding an e educator certificate I think the argument then is your actions as a board as a not sorry your actions as the president um are not in VI they are outside of that in violation of your ethics I mean can someone bring a complaint to the doe anyone can anyone can at any time have the right to do that and we have to defend that that's not something that the board can control you know ideally the board isn't doing that for Union Union activity but um but anyone can bring that and we have to defend that and I think ultimately we we can defend that right because your as a as a union president are protected um in capacity although you still have some restrictions right you can't you know there's a lot of code of ethics that are like you can't do no matter what no matter what your job is um but I think I think if I think as we as we try to rework and come to an agreement on nine I think your concern will be a suage because I don't I I think that you will have continue to maintain no matter what this contract between you and the this mou between MCA and the board says you maintain your own personal rights to to challenge things that you want to challenge challenge people that you need feel need to be challenged and I think the only concern is if the board is that person that needs to be challenged we want to make sure that you still have the ability to do that um if they they take some action adverse to you that is legally actionable you know you should still have that ability even if you're in the teacher on a special assignment and I think we can get at that without undermining the concept that Terry's talking about which is the board on the same token should not be liable for things that you do when you're operating MCA President right everyone should be in their a proper role I'm not saying that artfully but I I do think that it's a concern that I understand it we may not be able to you know legislate exactly some language that will solve it but I do think that we can get pretty close to an acknowledgement that you're not going to be somehow trapped by this language so that you can't act if you feel like the actions needed or subject to some rules that you you don't feel like you should be subject to because of this language I think I think we can get there I think we're already very close to that I don't think that's the intent no I I I appreciate that and and uh you know not not only uh thank you for the clarification but but thank you both for for uh getting in there and and reading my mind you you guys did a did a great job collectively on that I appreciate it all right Martin so where where were we were we on we were on the contract right number 12 is where we yeah yes yeah and I think we we kind of are at a good place with that if we see it whether it's attached or not if we just see what you're talking about and it's that annual contract which we think it is I think we're going to be that's fine um the 13 the only thing I'm concerned about here I think is that um is that separating apart from this agreement we're going to have to resolve the opinion in Award right and I I don't want to agree to this and then that somehow undermines our resolution of that award I don't think that's your intention with this language maybe it is but um does that make sense I don't want to say like we agreed that this supersedes the opinion award and then we come back and say all right so how do we recapture his F FRS and you say no we don't have to do that you agreed that this is superseded right I don't think that's what you're you're saying but that the int was I think well I don't want to blend too much bargaining versus resolution I think what Our intention was is more on a looking forward basis that for purposes of the upcoming school year we want what governs the relationship to be what's in this mou not what somebody said in the past yeah so I think that makes sense that was the intent not to lock you into a position now and then go and you know argue something in the arbitration matter which I think is is again as we discussed before at the beginning our our our um desire is that we can mutually work to resolve that um so that was not yeah if you need to add some qualifiers there that you would make you more comfortable happy to do that but that was not the intent okay um okay so yeah that was just a concern see okay I mean it's similar with the with the the past practice of the CBA I mean I think that we all acknowledge that like the language of pres this this mou covers this year um and that's the term of theou that's what we're trying to do I think there's some concern that that we're limit like I don't I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say by creative past practice or create a precedent um because I mean in in what capacity like you don't want us to use this in some future arbitration like I don't I guess I'm I guess what can you explain that a little bit what you're trying to get out there just a little bit yeah and it kind of goes to what I back what I said at the introduction was our view was with with working on theou we were looking on addressing how we're going to handle things 24 25 recognizing that the the overall unpaid leave Provisions is something that might need to be addressed outside of the context of anou um just like when we left off last year in the last bargaining session there were a lot of back and forth about the terms of unpaid leave and so what we were just trying to do is just to make it clear that which I think is is kind of what the purpose of anou is anyway uh is is really that we're locked in we're trying to focus this on this year and it's not going to impact what we still need to bargain for 2425 because we don't have a collective bargaining agreement yet for 2425 this mou is kind of jumping in front of all of that so we just wanted to make it clear that this mou is for this but any other bargaining related to the 2425 contract you know theou is what it is and it is in place and if the board approved it it would be in place but we didn't want that to otherwise limit the ability to discuss unpaid leave or any other forms of leave during our collective bargaining sessions okay no I think that I think that's probably right um I just think we were there's a little bit of a concern about what yeah like you said that's kind of the purpose of the mou so what what did this add was a little bit of our concern and I think there's also just kind of a practical one which is our hope is that we you know that we work this to the point that it works right and so we we're fixing it we're making changes to it we're we're doing it we're not trying to use it as a as a hammer but as a as a tool to to actually facilitate this uh this this um as part of the bargaining right to say listen here's how we've done it and this is good a good tool and it's worked for Matt or it's worked for Karen or whatever if it hasn't um here's what hasn't worked um so okay well let let's talk about that Gary do you have any other other thoughts about that resp yeah I just think it's redundant I think um number three clearly establishes that theou sunsets after June 30th 2025 it shall automatically Sunset and have no further force and effect after June 30th 2025 so why do we need that last caveat if if number three expressly puts a limitation on when this language will be followed right it specifically says it sets that June 30 2025 and I don't see how this would affect our um ability to open up the article in which um unpaid Le falls into the collective bargaining agreement because this is a SE a separate document so that's my understanding of it I just think that it's redundant and it just puts um like this language it just seems like we're not trustworthy like we're we're going to use use this as as something to put on a table and say oh well we have this so you have to do that's not how how we get down Terry I don't think that the board has a concern should have a concern over us using it as a past practice because that would only be with respect to AG grievance and arbitration that you could use a past practice argument so I just don't understand the the need for 415 okay gotcha um yeah and then this has to be voted on by the board right and um I think that's uh something we've talked about kind of throughout this whole process whated from the beginning of Karen so we acknowledge that um so um so there's some things that we we need to work on um get back to what's the what's the procedure that you recommend to do that so so the board meeting there's a board meeting on the 16th um and so our Hope was that we would be able to have this on the board agenda for the 16th um because I don't think the next board meeting is till third Tuesday in August August 20th yes which would be after the start of the school year um I don't know from a timing like if we were to try to get back together how that would work for that Julie like I know I mean there is there's two trim meetings and there's a workshop and sometimes if it's pledge it pleases the board they close a workshop like they did last night and they look at one or two things to have a special board meeting okay that I mean I mean I can't tell you that's going to happen but there is past president that like on the 9th I might be able to get them or the superintendent May request the board chair to uh close the workshop and and then advertise you know they advertise a special meeting and we could maybe do it on the 9th but that again still well school starts the 12th 12 but I have to you know if we if we look if there's any palatability for an opportunity for partial release I to figure out where I'm putting M for teaching what's the requirement uh the notice requirement remind me for the agenda so the meeting's on the 16th I assume they have to post a not post the agenda of 48 hours or something in advance um a week seven days in advance we would put or there could be good cause to add a late item so I mean we have to have it by the sixth but agenda post date is the 13th for the 20th are you looking for the n we're looking for I think he's looking for the 16th of July I was just seeing if we even had time to do it if it was even possible I didn't know if there uh yesterday was it it posted yesterday but we could I mean you can do a late ad for good cause the chair would have agreed to that but I just the closer you get to the board meeting I just know if we say here's anou you have 24 hours to look at it we might get hey no but understanding too the timing of it you know we've got separate from this where we've got the arbitration matter is required to be a address next week Our Hope was that we'd kind of flush everything into one board meeting all of it at one time that was our plan um I think we've got a couple things to work through so I just don't know Julie I don't think I mean I just even if we met again another day the 11th the 12th or the 15th I don't know how the board I I just don't know if that's feasible timing wise versus if we were to do it August 9th but if we did a part-time situation again just hypothetically I do think you would need some time built in to have those discussions as to whether that was something that would be entertained um just stinks there's no board meetings between the 16th and the 9th well there's trim meetings there's a would they would they attach something like this to that um I don't really have a um I don't think so but I I don't know if you have any experience with that I don't really remember trim meetings only happen trim meetings only happen a couple times a year for budget and it's usually the CFO and that's his you know their scheduled meetings according to statute for him to do what he you know what the Board needs to approve for budget um so I don't know if they would close those and do another one I can certainly ask if if uh the superintendent's admin who managed a lot of that to see if there's a possibility but I know we've done it at Workshop because we just did it last night but the other I'm not really sure fortunately so when would you all be available to maybe make some red lines get back on something like this and talk through some of these issues I can tell you though for your scheduling wise for purposes of the part-time question that's probably something we won't be able to have the conversation on on our side until the 15th so if that's something that you wanted to kind of look at for purposes of theou I don't think before the board meeting on the 16th that we'll be able to give you the position on that um if that was something that you really wanted to look into I know that you said that was to maybe help address some of the concerns from our end but also if that's something you're interested in I think we'd have to have that chat um if it wasn't and we were just going based on the template that we've got now with some of the revisions outside of the part-time um I mean we'd have to get together jul I just don't know Julie how the board would you know if we got him something on the 12th um how that would go the the 12th of August July like if this Friday we've had a TA on anou and said late added item to the board agenda for the 16th whether or not that would be sufficient time I don't know I just don't know I don't think we know that here so we can try to find out and that might affect scheduling but well what's your I mean do we do we try to schedule another one of these on the 12th and get red lines to you tomorrow for your that's okay right um we can submit red lines to you guys um like do we try that or do we what I mean what's your availability for something like that I think we can probably on our end you know we could probably you know we just prioritize it and we'll figure out a way to get it done right but um but is it you know if it's a if it's a fruitful action then we'll we'll take more time and and make sure we get it done correctly but I think we I think we can um it's not none of this is too major I don't think um with the exception of the part-time full-time issue which like you said has to happen is not going to happen anyways um so maybe maybe maybe I think we I think I think that conversation is worth having I guess is my position um I haven't we we probably need another conversation with Matt and MCA but but based on our initial conversation I think that part-time conversation is at least worth exploring because I think it might solve some issues but I mean I can defer to figary and Matt on how how important that is um to them um and that that already pushes us to to to to point where we can't yeah where we can't do it um I think on that we would we would need probably Julie I think on Monday we wouldn't have a good indication of really what direction we would want to go with you until I mean it would even be Tuesday because we we would have to have a meeting on Monday float the idea talk through it and then have some direction to be able to come back and talk to you about so there'd be you know that would be something you'd want to down anyway to a later date we and we can get you probably some idea of what that looks like in an agreement like this or at least our our idea of both right I mean I don't know I'm maybe creating work that we don't need to do I I'm kind of open I'm not sure the best way to handle this so I'm kind of looking for guidance from everyone here but we can you red lines on on both directions on on you know just Red Line this and we can give you like here's what I think it looks like if if the board has an appetite for part-time I don't know if that helps us I mean it just seems like we're in a bind on the on the on the on the July 17th which of course I don't know is there an appetite for for splitting this is there an appetite for doing the arbit resolving the arbitration component and and then at the 17th if we can and then and then still working on this for a for a workshop or whatever we can get in of them or do we want to put them both in a position where they're working simultaneously and I don't know that there's an opinion either way I just I don't know I don't know the thoughts on that um we probably need to talk about whether there's a possibility of splitting it up I mean as I as we mentioned to you Martin when we when Jeff and I called you out like I think there is an intent here to move quick and get it all through yeah yeah I think that was and still is I think we're just burdened a little bit by the timing of it so um maybe my thought would be let us talk offline and see timing wise how things would work out if we were to get something in the next couple of days if that was not plausible then it may just seeing about whether these trim meeting that are publicly noticed if there's a way to tack onto that and just kind of see what the options are here to try to get this thing going and frankly I know you got the school year starting and so if this was a scenario where there would be a split time you know we got to make assignments and so we kind of gotta move quickly in our end too so I think maybe that's the answer yeah so then can we can you and I or Jeff and I or someone get on the phone like tomorrow to figure out where we stand on some of these things like tomorrow and and in the meantime on our end we'll we'll do some of the red lining so we have it in our back pocket and ready to go um and and that way we've and we I can also kind of yeah that I can just let we can let each other know like tomorrow morning perhaps like where we stand on all these issues and and here's the best possible outcome um Terry I just have a recommendation maybe we they could come up with two Redline versions one with part-time release and one where you review our full-time release yeah and so we have both in our pocket but both of those things in our pocket and then you all were um outside the negotiating process determine the arbitration W and and and with Jeff and some work he's already done and that would be done outside the you know the bargaining table because that's not something we're bargaining that's a an award that we're working through makes sense yeah I mean yeah if we had two versions of it we could talk through that on our end just you know the TA normally I'd love to sit down and Ta on on something with you but if you've got a concept it'd be nice to see what those look like and maybe we could get some more feedback um for the next time we get together that sounds good we we'll do that and I I suspect we'll have to come back together as a group anyways to do that and the question is just how soon do we need to get back in so I got a couple deadlines but but I can get I can get you I can get you guys that tomorrow too I think um do you want to look at any time that you'd like to try to get to back together and just get it scheduled at least a date um what did I say today's [Music] the it's 10th 10th so um I mean the board meeting is the 16th you we could try I mean it would be nice if we had it on the 15th Terry if we had our meeting together on the 15th well yeah I definitely want option A and option b from them full release and part-time release in a response format similar to theou redlined and then oh yeah and then um a meeting if you of the minds happen regarding arbitration which is outside of this and then we may have something to go with executive session yeah if we could maybe we could I'm looking right now I've got some I should have some time on Monday I'm looking right now and then we would need you know we we typically have a meeting um prior to Executive session the way we do so that we've um you know those that'll be in session understand what we're presenting if it was before 2 o'clock P.M on Monday I would be available okay I mean if you received the items prior to that and just want to bring it to our meeting you've already but that's the thing you gotta we probably have gotta exchange it at the table yep yes sorry y yep so it could be a it could be also just a quick meeting on Monday for the purposes of being able to pass things across the table um that you've worked that might work would that give you time Martin on your guys end so we present to you the two Redline versions Monday yeah and then we would potentially have some feedback um when then we'd have to have another follow-up session really to present the feedback to you because of this obviously we got to do everything in the sun yeah so do we need to I mean and we're I think we can answer that do we need to sorry Martin go ahead do we need to get you Redline versions Friday like two days from now I think anytime Monday to me I think if it's Monday yeah because we're gonna be meeting Monday evening to go to talk through some of it I can present I understand the concept without the red line for what it's worth the red line by Monday that's not then then yeah anytime Monday before 5:00 p.m would be help but I think we need to have that exchanged across the table during a bargaining session versus you just emailing me to us I mean ultimately it it forecloses I mean the timing just forecloses the ability to get this before the board on on Tuesday I mean there's just no way because it requires us to get it to you for you to have a conversation Monday night with the board for us to bring it back to the table and then for us a TA and that's not I mean that's just yep not GNA happen for the part-time release it probably wouldn't happen yeah if it was not part-time release and it was just taking the other stuff that we talk through I think there's a possibility we could do it right right okay okay well let's let's get something on the books for Monday let me have a conversation off offline with my folks and then um we'll talk and then we'll we'll talk yeah okay so um Monday Matt Gary je you have any any I can pretty July 15th you want to try to do just at noon you said before two Terry yep but anytime before two I'm open I'm open anytime I'm also open within that range so if you guys yeah so two noon is fine 11 is fine 10 is fine whatever yep my Monday is good too so whatever works best for you guys I put noon to 2: pm. and then I'll get these notes on the website and then it and then we'll have them advertise the the meeting at 2 pm and it would be via teams yes that will be um posted on the district website okay all right do we have a plan we do right we have a plan um yeah we have a plan Terry can you send that document to me like email I can't save it oh the the word document that I yeah mou it's like won't let me save it or maybe I don't know how to use it I did a draft I did one with a draft watermark on it you may want want that on there Terry I'll just send it to you you're talking about theou yeah maybe there's a way I can pull it off but I it's not letting me pull it off I just send it to you so you'll have it word yeah it's better that it goes from attorney to attorney in my mind yeah same thing we exchange it across the table so it's fine just the format okay okay all right so we want to go record then and yes hold hold please figure this out all right stop recording it