##VIDEO ID:B2TqyqrGTTo## okay it is 6:30 p.m. we'll call the Monday September 23rd 2024 city council meeting to order if you could please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you uh do we have any additions to the agenda tonight uh don't have any additions for tonight mayor hearing none I'll look for a motion to approve the agenda as presented motion second have a motion a second all in favor say I I oppose same sign motion carries 5 with that we will move to public comments if there is anyone who would like to discuss anything that is not on the agenda please come forward and if you could state your name and address for the record please quickly and the name is Jennifer R and the address is J tonight will be 18th and 19th City or Township that I am and I'm sorry just for the for the sure can you hear me Jennifer Ray and I live in Chan Hassen Minnesota which is part of Carver County and we all vote apparently everyone in this room because in 2020 we had almost 100% turnout my objective um is to number one inform you of something and number two hoping you feel compelled to actually take an action item on behalf of yourself or on behalf of the council with the mayor and the subject is absentee VOE and as you know when you vote in person and you come and sign in and you pick up your ballot and you go and vote everything is done in pairs of major Party People overseeing the process and to me that seems pretty common sense it's law sounds good it doesn't seem racist to me it doesn't seem like it's um you know intimidating for someone to vote at the process when we actually vote in person and I'm hoping you all AG with that so I I found this on the League of Women Voters website and if we go to page two where it's highlighted um this is for absentee ballots now in 2020 over half of our ballots were cast via absentee and those are not counted or processed or anything at the city Precinct level those all go to the county so um if we go to where it's highlighted it says election judges are required to identify a party affiliate ilation and then bolded because two election judges of the same party cannot work together and then if we go to the next page it and we go to the next highlighted area which is the third and last page that I have for you then the ballots are removed from the ballot secrecy envelope all steps again and bold of the counting process are done in pairs with two election judges of different parties if we go to the safeguards if a voter marked their ballot improperly if you've been to a Precinct and if you worked as an election judge or even if you haven't once in a while that ballot gets rejected somebody doesn't fill out an noal properly I don't know why I've never had one rejected but it happens so then it says a team of election judges of different parties and that's bolded will go through and determine the in intent of the voter if the intent of the voter is not clear the election judges will not guess again bolded below with the highlighted this whole process is done with election judges of different parties all present and we all agree that that does not sound racist and it doesn't sound intimidating and it doesn't sound like that is going to um make somebody not vote I mean that's pretty Common Sense sound like that's about right well when our comes to our absentee votes we don't do that here in Carver County we don't have major party balance going through all the processes of A to Z so my goal is to have the Carver County Commissioners who are in charge and do have the authority and the ability to pass a resolution that says we will have vetted major party balance in all processes of of our absentee ballots and those who do the early voting where they aren't putting them in the uh machine necessarily right away through all processes A to Z and to me that just sounds really common sense and like it's really lwh hanging fruit and it should be something that should pretty be pretty easily um accommodated and and passed so that's my request to you if that sounds like a pretty easy thing to ask and to have process our votes in Carver County then that's my request to you and what I will do is email you I think I've got emails for everybody if I don't I'll get a hold of somebody and I'm going to send you uh from Rumble we have the certification of the 2022 election and on there it states that we do not have that uh because there's a misconception in some of the City and County Employees I'm not sure where the misconception is coming through that we already do that we don't we haven't and so it does state in there clearly Kendra our election clerk for Carver County States multiple times that we do not do that in Carver County what we do do is um we have deputized City and County employees and we give them the authority to be election judges and I just want to note that in 2022 there were two parts of the law that had to be followed with election judges and not deputized County Employees one was opening and processing and verifying the signatures the signatures uh by the two vetted Republicans one did zero signature verification and the other did a couple hundred out of 13,000 so we did not have vetted major party even doing what the law said was part of it the other part uh that was mandatory and not left up to um anyone's indiscretion or discretion uh was to have that part where I said if it's rejected and we had over 13,000 ballots that were put through by two gals that work at the county um at night at 8:00 without anybody else there and we did not have major party balance re duplicating those adjudicating those whatever terminology you want to use um in 201 22 they just did it all on their own so I'm just looking for transparency and oversight I personally don't think that's too much to ask I'm hoping that isn't too much to ask that you think that that is for anybody so I am requesting and we're getting to the end of the runway so I I will be requesting that and I'm hoping that you even personally if you feel strong enough that hey we should do that in Carver County for the mayor um people who vote and and decide that they're going to vote via absentee so that they can have transparency and accountability in their votes thank you very much thank you for your comments we'll take on consideration so anyone else for public comments good evening thank you for five minutes of your time five minutes uh similar messages Jen my name is Al Sherwood I live in Chanhassen and uh absentee and mail in ballots as as we all know U has potential for fraud um with major issues on identity theft loss ballots and chain of custody issues a certain administrative uh rule in Minnesota has made absentee voting a major election Integrity issue uh with regard to Signature matching state law requires that the vote the voter must have signed the absentee ballot the Secretary of State's office along with an okay from a Minnesota court of appeal he s has in place administrative rule 8210 2450 which now allows for any voter to sign an absentee ballot instead of making the common sense determination that the law that the law requires that the same person sign the application and the ballot the the court essentially held that any person can sign any ballot for anyone without limitation even if there is a signature mismatch according to the rule the ballot must be accepted unless the names are different as Jen said the majority of boats cast in 2020 were absentee does it give you any confidence knowing that any person can sign any absentee ballot for anyone with regard to party balance uh to add to what Jen has said Simon's rule also subverted legislator's intent that party balanced election judges from the major parties accept to reject all absentee ballots his rule makes election judges who keep the vote honest completely unnecessary on ballot boards and allows government staff to accept and reject ballot ballots even even when the law says they must ballot boards look like black boxes to me their work is done behind closed doors I realize counties and townships are told what to do and what not to do by St Paul but I call on Carver County to be more transparent with their ballot boards video surveillance of dropboxes does not prevent people from putting in more than one ballot this is a huge chain of custody issue Wisconsin and other states have in place provisional ballots or they outlaw them and I I call on Minnesota to do the same and outlaw dropboxes although it was a nationwide survey given all this it's not surprising then to see that a recent poll by Rasmus alongside with the Harland Institute found that in 2020 election one in five people who voted by mail committed some type of voter fraud and this is by the way according to these people's own admissions lastly I believe that same day registration is fraught with election Integrity issues once again Secretary of State Simon prioritizes convenience over security every by turning a blind eye to the same same day voter registration process that allows anyone to register to vote on Election Day and have their vote counted without verification 47 other states have in place provisional ballots which sets these ballots aside to be counted after they're verified I call on Minnesota to do the same thank you thank you anyone else my name is Deb Parish I have a mayor phone number but I'm the first house that's cologne mailing address on the edge of town um the uh we have been talking to the County Commissioners for a couple of years and have come become greatly concerned over the whole process 50% our number one concern is 50 more than 50% of the ballots that were cast for presidential election in 2020 were absentee ballots there is currently no signature verification as he said anyone can sign and send it in um there is no there is no party parody in most of the process the only process there's only two pro parts of the process where they even allow uh party parody judges that have requested to be in the room um and one was the used to be the signature verification what was the other one the the other one is the duplication yeah yeah that just when they're rejected and we did find out that they're doing that rejected ballot process at night with just one or two employees taking on the responsibility of doing that there needs to they need to follow the law they need have party parody throughout the whole process as the law prescribes and we're um you'd be shocked if you really looked into the actual process that's being used in our County thank you thank you thank you I appreciate it thank you anyone else who would like to speak seeing none we'll close public comments and we will move to consent agenda is there anything on the consent agenda that needs to be pulled for further discussion hearing none I'll look for a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented motion second motion a second all in favor say I hi hi same sign and motion carries 5 Z with that we will move to the Southern Valley Alliance for domestic violence awareness Christie I assume perfect if you don't mind introducing yourself or Nick if you want to say something for take it right away sure sounds great sounds good my name is Christy Larsson I'm the executive director Southern Valley Alliance and just really appreciate um the opportunity to come here tonight to talk a little bit about our organization and also about October which is domestic violence awareness month so um for those of you that don't know about Southern Valley Alliance we are the only comprehensive provider of domestic violence services for all of Scott and Carver counties we're a nonprofit organization and were founded in the early 80s um until last year we were always located in Bell Plain but in January of 2024 we opened up a brand new domestic abuse advocacy Advocacy Center in downtown Shaka just to be kind of more centralized between the two counties and provide better accessibility for the clients that we serve since January we've really seen a tremendous increase in the number of clients we're seeing every single day um just in the last year we served 1,18 clients which was a 27% increase over the year before also calls to our 247 Crisis Line have increased that was an increase of 23% over the last year which equates to a total of 2,251 calls last year we also commenced a brand new transitional housing program it's the first of its kind in our community Southern Valley Alliance has seven scattered site apartment units where victims and their families can stay for up to 12 months when they are fleeing domestic abuse during that time they're in um receiving really intensive Case Management Services to assist them in all aspects of their stabilization and safety so we work on housing education Child Care Financial education employment job search assistance and more we're seeing really great success with these clients and this program truly has been life-changing for many of them we continue to get the word out in our communities about the availability of these critical programs and I'm here tonight to help um ask for help with that task nationally October is domestic violence awareness month and the perfect time to spread word about Southern Valley Alliance and the services that we provide so I invite you to connect with us via social media and help share our posts we have yard signs available to purchase that we encourage residents to place outside their home or place of business and if you're interested in giving back by giving your time we have lots of opportunities for volunteer engagement as as well so if you want to learn more about our organization and the work that we do you can follow us on social media at Southern Valley Alliance or on our website at svam mn.org thank you so much you have all the contact information yep okay wonderful did you have any questions at all assume you work with Cara County Sheriff's department and they're well aware of so if they domestic yep very closely y um so there's 10 different law enforcement agencies throughout the two counties and all of them when they're going out on a domestic violence call they're filling out a report um that they then send to Southern Valley Alliance and our Advocates are following up with all of the victims from those cases yep yep and I'll also just leave some flyers I saw one in the entryway but we have our Purple Patch program where we sell Patches from all the law enforcement agencies to raise money during the month so I'll leave some of those as well okay app you do thank thank you for having me thank you wonderful and with that then we will move to uh consider the adoption of ordinance 245 amending city code chapter 71 regarding winter parking regulations thank you mayor uh from our work session uh last time I posted the ordinance to our website to make sure we're complying with the postering requirements for ordinances and that was posted for the requisite 10 days uh to comply with state law uh the ordinance hasn't received any uh changes since then since we had our Workshop the last go round so we would be looking at adoption if Council so wished thank you and for next not to put you on the spot but from the public could you quick highlight uh what the proposed changes are sure so the uh the how the current ordinance reads is that uh between November 1st and April 1 if there is an inch or more of snow then vehicles must be off the street some of the issues we're running to is measuring that one inch on some parts of town it would get blown around and there wouldn't be any but then they would have two and a half inches on another part of town so judging when that would happened was uh a bit of a bear there was also secondary layer um that wasn't enforced quite as much that outside of those that date range if there was two inches of snow or more than a snow emergency could be declared and to could happen to clean that up went to well we kept the November 1st to April 1 and then the new language is that from 2 am to 6: am there is no parking on the streets if there is any accumulation of snow if it's currently snowing if it had snowed there's any amount it must be off the streets until plowing operations are complete I think this has a benefit of having a defined time range whereas before the 1 inch could be any time a day and you'd have to go out at any time to get your vehicle moved now residents know that between 2 and 6:00 a.m. is that window and if they know that if they look at the forecast and they see that snow could be coming or snow has already fallen just make sure it's off the street and we should be good to go outside of that 2 to six range and outside of the November 1st to April 1st range we do not have uh Towing enforcement measures so that gives some security to the residents as well perfect thank you I appreciate that I think it's a good step in getting the the word out to the public so I appreciate that any comments or questions on the ordinance as presented hearing none I'll look for a motion to approve ordinance 245 amending the winter parking regulations motion second we have a motion and a second from council member H any further discussion and you'll get a good together for education and it'll be you'll Splash everything social media social media newsletters we're uh tomorrow we'll get the order we'll get the sign arranged we'll get that ordered from Carver County those will go up on all in entrances to the subdivisions and along the streets so everybody will see that go up in the newsletter social media website electronic sign wonderful thank you any other comments hearing none all in favor say hi hi post same sign motion carries 5 Z with that we'll jump right into the site location for the mayor baseball club storage shed all right let me go right to that so at our last Workshop we discussed uh situation well not a situation um an opportunity to collaborate with the mayor baseball club uh they are currently looking for alternative storage space they have pole tabs that they need to keep for I believe it was a three-year period and um that's all the pole tabs that happened so it consumes quite a bit of space and there their current storage area is uh the rents going up uh so they had contacted the city about seeing if there's any available space here we didn't have any um in on the interior of the building but then we talked about a location on the exterior of the building where they could construct a storage shed on city property they would pay us rent in a sum for that amount uh that agreement to be coming at uh I hope the next meeting to have that together for consideration uh but for this it's looking at the location of the site itself and as you can see and unfortunately the people at home can't but it's in the packet um just on the western side of the of City Hall we have a a Nook back there which is about 16 feet by 27 feet in size and the mayor baseball club was looking at a shed that was about 12 by 20 in size so it would fit right back there uh tucked away amongst some of the other things we have the cel Tower back there we have the cell tower shed back there um it wouldn't impede on any of the existing asphalt it wouldn't block any doors it's just an unused space back there and uh so this would go well uh to help reduce their costs and the money that the baseball club can save is money that goes right back into the community thank you and which side uh is the proposed door going to be uh I will be meeting with uh Dean uh from mayor Lutheran who is propos their class is looking at constructing the shed I'll be meeting with Dean on site to go over details on what it'll look like making sure it Blends in and then figuring out which side the door will go on so and I'm only asking because I'm just curious if our cameras will happen to capture capture the doors so I'm assuming a southern facing door would be easiest access okay that's that's fair enough all right any other any questions for the city administrator or comments hearing none then I'll look for a motion to approve the site location for the proposed uh storage shed for the mayor baseball club motion second we have a motion to Second any further discussion I just want to State for the record that I am a member of the baseball club I do not stand to have any personal gain from this decision so I will be voting perfect thank you and yes and I agree with that there's certainly no conflict of interest um with that so any other comments um and we got did we get a motion on this I'm sorry yes yes I'm sorry all in favor say I iOS same sign motion carries 5 Z and with that I'll look for or we'll move on to the adoption of resolution adopting the 2025 preliminary Levy and budget thank you mayor and our last item for business is uh Levy the preliminary Levy for 2025 so just as a AP we've been working uh anybody watching we've working on workshops on the 2025 Levy and the budget uh there has been no changes to it since the last Workshop from the last council meeting so what we seeing presented here is the exact numbers that we had from the last go around so to go through that for the general fund Levy looking at $450,500 home is once we set the preliminary Levy we can lower it in December but we cannot raise it so this is the max amount for the total Levy that we can bring forward under Capital Improvement for the fire department CIP $150,000 under streets 110,000 for Parks and Recreation 75,000 asphalt sidewalk replacement 125,000 and the general CIP 40,000 and this category is for Capital Improvement project so um for the fire department this is putting money away so that in the future if we need to replace a fire engine or anything like like that the money will be sitting in the fund and we can go ahead and make the payment when that comes due to make the purchase of the equipment under Debt Service we have um for the 2020a bond 24452 uh for the 2021 a bond 232,000 55 and then for the 2023 a bond 68,4 $40 and this is Debt Service according to the schedules which were approved at the time when the debt came out so in total between all of those uh the total Levy we're looking at is 1,319 1879 which compared to the 2024 Levy would be a 2.11% decrease in the levy so we were our Levy is going down by 2.11% for 2025 and with that that is our resolution for the 2025 preliminary Levy thank you that I'll look for a motion to approve resolution 2024-25 preliminary Levy and the 2025 preliminary budget motion second you have a motion a second any further discussion nope thanks again Nick for making it easy yeah absolutely and understandable that all in favor say I iOS same sign motion carries 5 Z and with that we will move to council reports council member fou anything report on nothing sir council member Wagner nothing council member H uh just music in the park this weekend 1 to4 Saturday wonderful uh old schoolhouse Park Old School House Park thank you and council member mcney no nothing and I have nothing to report on either as I have had no meetings since our last counil meeting so with that I'll look for a motion to adjourn motion second motion by McNeil second by held um all in favor say hi I sign we are adjourned with that we will jump right into the workshop we call to order thank you mayor so what coming back for a second time after discussion the last go around we have our water shut off ordinance Amendment proposal uh I haven't changed any of the language from last time there was a request to have numbers uh researched by staff we did get those numbers out the city council uh in an email then also on the update here before the council meetings so hopefully we've answered all of those in good order so what we're coming back to uh I there wasn't too much from what I remember and please correct me there wasn't too much discussion on quite a bit of the process uh what it came down to I think was the date that we wanted to pick for when utility bills would be um due actually due on so for recap for those that are are listening the way our current ordinance has it is that uh utility bills are due on the first of the month however penalties are not applied until the 10th which makes the 10th the de facto due date because there's no there's no penalty for not paying before the 10th so I unless there was another aspect that I wasn't recalling on the last one I think it came down to do we want to discuss uh when that well when do we want that due date to be the first or the 10 right thank you any thoughts comments is there any what are the pros and cons to having a due date of the 1 versus the 10th the first aligns it a bit more to after we've done the reading then we can crank the bills out right away we're not holding that for 10 days administrative it's not major I guess that's what I'm that was going to be my question like what if it's the 10th is it going to hurt anything so that way we can just keep with what people are kind of used to leash if there are any aspects you would like to chime in on Guess for me moving it to the 10th kind of buttons it up um because otherwise you're draging out utility bills like a month and a half so September 1st they read the meters for the August water usage but then that's technically not due until October 10th so you're always a month and a half behind on the billing okay so so it is did you mean the 10th or did you mean the first well they do the first but then if the late fee doesn't go in until the 10th so so it is it is problematic then to have it if we would switch the date to the 10 is it's been working I mean if you keep it at the tenth it's going to continue the way it has okay so then are we concerned with like the frequent fires that we're not shutting off or the penalties themselves like is it two separate issues I think I think in our experience with previous cities in Utility Billing I the penalties will be what the penalties will be be um I think it's the frequent flyers that are consistently on now as we're getting to the end of the year do you recall how many are on the the last time I ran the delinquent test about 116 properties that were delinquent so this would potentially um cut that number significantly down I'm assuming because we would then shut the water off after two months versus just slapping it down there so if I recall the last go around last year I think we only had don't quote me I think it was 20s something properties that we assessed last year that actually went to the county and got assessed now the number starts at 10 and something and then we let's we send out letters uh in October we're going to send out the letters because we will do the certification in November people will get the letters they will call in they'll start paying it off but yeah see we got to change that I I agree I think we can run more efficiently City by changing it to the first and what I'm seeing now my bill doesn't come till between the 15th and the 20th right now and I like I think most people aim for that first that that's your due date that only gives people two weeks you know to now we're going to get the bill at least a week earlier we should have it by the fifth or seventh correct if we change you know if we're reading them right away so I think from that aspect that gives people a little bit more time to get your bill and plan for the first in my mind I always shoot for the first I never take that the 10 days a new into a factor which I think most people do that so that's just my opinion on it so based on the data that you sent out this is how many people paid from the 1 to the 10th first through the 10th correct and so how many how many customers how many residents are there how many bills do we send out in a month so 920 not great so I mean we've got 200 people four you got yeah 22% of your people are paying in the grace period whether it be because they want to or they can't you know that we don't know but a behavior that we've allowed to happen for I think we talked since the 90s or forever I think the efficiency outweighs it um for the city to have that um if somebody calls to work on a plan we don't shut the water off if they're delinquent you know like where we like set up a payment plan or a process or whatever if they reach out then we don't shut off after two months correct so if if a resident calls in let's let's say we move it to the first I'll take a they say this doesn't work for me the way my finances work I pay on the seventh because that's when XYZ happens and that's when it works financially if that person were to come in or call email tell us I can't pay on the first ever it's got to be the seventh what's going to happen we'd say thank you for explaining that situation we will set you up to pay on the 7th and we won't charge you a late fee because you've you've communic responsible you've communicated with the city we explain that situation it's not going to be everybody people with specific circumstances we give leniency to when and you can do that easily in our Software System I was gon say I feel like we're going backwards any efficiencies we've gained we're now manually one off with the residents I mean I get where Nick's coming from you know they're trying to be proficient and tell you straight up that this isn't working for me and and and I get that and and I and I feel the same I would feel the same I wouldn't want to impose that on them either but like you guys are saying the first is the first well you know if you're gonna change it and then have an entire list of exceptions you're not really gaining any efficiency right true but I think it goes back to Mike's Point how many pay between that because some of us are when is the auto pay come come out okay how many are procrastinators like oops I need to pay the bill and that's the cycle they know so that's what they fall into and how many are in the exent circumstance case I we don't know I say we move to the first then and uh see how this plays out we can always change it can I just ask a dumb question where where is this coming from I know I've missed a couple meetings like was this like something there's an issue and that's why we're bringing this to the table or so we're looking at refreshing the ordinance to begin the shut off process I don't know the exact dates and deadlines or exact dates of when things have my understanding shut offs used to happen then there was a period when they stopped and they haven't been restarted again all the cities I've ever worked for have done shut offs and we have this very large frequent flyer list that we have so to ensure people are paying properly and doing what most cities in my experience do is shut off similar that other private utilities do so this is kind of the process as you are we're looking through all our ordinances and different things to find deficiencies things that haven't been touched for a long time the thrust of this was to get the the thrust of it was to get the process back in place to resume doing shut offs I think the the side issue we've run into is the first or the 10th because in our current ordinance the due data is the first but the penalties don't apply to the 10th so the question comes before Council which state do you want I think the rest of the ordinance which was the thrust is okay and we're generally agree to that it's is it the 1 or the 10th so they get the bill on the first see I'm sorry everything's Auto for me so like I don't know when I you would get it if it was was mailed you'd probably get it by the 7th and it's due the following the following month on the first three weeks later by the first but I had till the 10th to pay it correct you had a full month so now we're just saying I when I get it I just have to pay there is no late there's no no Grace no grace period and they weren't sending out the bills until after that 10th when they could file the penalty so then we're not getting the bill until like the third week of the month yeah between like the 15th and the 20th like month that seems not efficient right so now we move it to the First with no Grace then people have more time theoretically to to be propep for their water payment right and I think this is a great scenario here I think that'll be a great learning tool you know if we do move to this I'd love to see something like this posted on the our website I think that's a great um another question so shut offs it's not like heat where you there's like you can't do it from like what November 15th to March 15 like water there isn't any like State statues that so for water cold weather rule applies only if your primary heating source is derived from water okay and do how do we know that they have to contact us cold weather so the cold weather rule is not an automatic thing you have to apply for it it just doesn't automatically kick okay okay that's good to know so I with all the with mayor having 80 plus percent of the houses built within the last 25 years the only houses potentially in the old parts of town that might yet maybe still have a source of water heating but even then some of those houses are still dating back to the 90s which they wouldn't be using those sorts of systems but if they came in said I have a primary heating source that is water I need the cold weather protection rule we would honor that from the water end of things okay CLE up by and we weren't I mean because like in the past we've just what once a year we get we find out who's hasn't we send out the letter and then we put it on their property taxes right and we don't want to do that anymore I would recommend not we may still need to oh yeah oh I'm I'm sorry right you still yes I misspoke there so yes we'd still to go through the certification process the idea being if you have a a current and regular shut off schedule the hund and something list is going to be far shorter this part of the year because you're following through I think this cleans it up that no I mean it's clear the first versus 10th this I think we should move towards this I would propose doing it January 1 but I think if we have a concern with some residents I would even consider waving the shut off for the first three months to get residents you know where we wouldn't start shut offs till you know March which is kind of the timeline anyways but you know if we feel it's a going to be a a hardship on some residents but I think this just aligns with all our Utility Billing our electric or gas it it's no different the date's the date and it's clear for us area but you're not really if a person really thinks about you're not harming the resident in any way shape or form other than potentially their payday because they're actually getting the same amount of period to pay the thing yeah so I mean I think we're spending a lot of time on I don't know I'd go with the like Mike said January 1 let's kick it off for the first of the month and we'll put out everything we can and because there's going to be some education because people are going to might get used to paying yes uh during that grace period because it worked best for their pay payment you know their how their money comes in so it will be an adjustment for some people right and I would certainly want at least January 1 if not later to make sure we have that education go out so everybody understands so if somebody does make need to make Financial adjustments they have more than just a snap month or two to try to rearrange their finan well yeah and that's why Mike I think was saying like March you know is when we'd really I think we can figure something out with that if we feel it's a concern right and you guys will know right away by how it goes in the first couple months so the biggest hardship I see if we start at the first they're going to get their late fee starting January 2nd instead of the January 11th right you know so it'll be a late fee of what five bucks 10% yeah 10% of the bill 10 bucks so any other comments yeah I think education's just going to be the biggest and I'm concerned how many residents are going to call and what the administrative task is going to look like and how much efficiency we're going to gain I would say ultimately I first or the 10th um at least from the staff standpoint aligning there's efficiencies but it's it's not earth shattering groundbreaking boy this is going to be night and day administrative type of stuff the point minor improvements the biggest point is that we're going to start enforcing shut offs yes that's the thrust so if that's happening then we're achieving the goal of getting this frequent FL list smaller and if it if we do end up doing the first as is the ordinance and that turns out to be an absolute nightmare the first is just come back amend the ordinance change first to 10th reopt the ordinance and now it's the 10th I was going to say we can always change things back too all right anything else on that yeah but I feel like if you have how many did you say were on this list right now like 165 or something 116 I mean that's still almost 10% and that's quite a large amount of people yeah and if they don't know if they know that their water's not actually going to get shut off they're gonna keep abusing the system right that's that's what Happ that's what they're trying to eliminate this Lea and I can speak from our 10 plus years of experience with utility billing I you've got 20 plus years with utility billing you you get your frequent flyers but the shut off Pro process keeps make sure they're not just letting that ride and they're just getting water for free is that um okay so sorry I more questions uh for so not only administrative now we have to have Public Works going and actually shutting water off yep um in the winter is that an issue trying to find where the W like our water shut offs are GIS so they can open up their application find its General location okay scrape it off pull off drop it down and twist okay so can you go onto somebody's property to do the shut like this is just weird questions because mine isn't in the right away the vast majority should be located within the right of way but yes we do have authority to go to the shut off and crank it off yeah because mine's yeah farther in my driveway than I think my right away is similar to how we have authority that if your meter is malfunctioning we have right to give you notice and then come into your property to fix the meter okay okay all right anything else uh oh one more go ahead I'm just trying to think like okay so then the person pays it so let's say they're like your wat gets shut off like on a Thursday and they come and pay at like 4:30 but Public Works is already gone for the day like how does that work we'll turn you on tomorrow morning okay and if it's a weekend it'd be Monday on call on call people come and doing the rounds so on call people doing rounds can come in on the weekend and turn it back on as part of their because there's always a person coming in for two hours on the weekends okay and since we didn't do this they all know how to do this yes yep they all they all know how to turn they do have the wrench that they drop down and then crank it on and off because that's part of they know how to do that because that's also part of Val exercising the same sim similar type of setup okay and other cities never had problems with this like with water not flowing through and pipes bursting in the winter I know I'm asking just we always ensure that the property owner is there when the water gets turned back on just in case something like that happens there is a very very very minor risk of it but we don't just jam it open to create water hammer you slowly open it okay assuming water lines are below the frost line so that's why you don't okay yep okay sorry just no good questions good questions so we would always make sure the property owner is there when we turn the water back on that way if there's an issue on the inside for whatever reason um Public Works is right there to be able to turn it right back off to prevent an issue okay it's just something new and we haven't done it since the 90s so no nobody's worked since nobody in our staff has been here since the 90s so I just want to make sure that why think we've shut water off since the 90s the the gra the regular the grace period has been since the 90s oh got it yeah like Kyle talked about last time like having to do the door hangers and stuff so he's obviously done it before just not as often as okay I just want no I just want to clarify for you that right I'm not in public works okay I when I first started I was like okay so when I flush my toilet what happens that's like the level of Education I had at the start okay we can move on all right is that good for item two let's move to item three then the so public buildings grant program so I'm not going to go through the slides that I included that was from a webinar that the Department of Commerce gave to uh the audience at the time on in there for education purposes but it's a grant program uh I'm looking at working on it may not work for the fire station I got some information over the weekend but uh how it works is you can get up to uh 60% well up to 70% from the state however the way mayor ranks with their uh net tax capacity per capita we' be in that 60% up to 72,000 and then uh with the legislation that was passed a couple years ago at at the Congressional level cities and entities that don't normally pay taxes can get tax credits as Direct payments and that would be another 30% so we could get up to n depending on the cost of the project up to 90% paid for in grant funding if successful with this grant program and so the two run concurrent we don't have to apply for a separate Federal Grant and then this as well the programs run concurrent with each other so it's one application for it so I got the notification on this webinar for solar on public buildings watched the webinar I looked at it went well we we could get 90% uh paid for through a grant and uh the previous City I work for Fairfax had an electric utility and one of the things I learned is uh solar really doesn't pay unless you have a grant in order to pay for the vast majority of it Minnesota electric is just to darn cheap in order to make solar plan panels really worth it on a long-term scale uh for residential types of settings or small types of settings like these but if you have a grant program like this all of a sudden it's right on the table because it brings that cost down so we had looked at having it on the fire station roof I have to do some checkings with a contractor and it's whoops wrong part of town and there are contractors on the state bid system that I can reach out to to get consultation with uh looked at the fire station as the uh the one that jumped out the most and the analys well the research I did on it has a large enough roofscape but it is a ballasted roof so there might be concerns there with the weight on the rock that is on top of the roof that might puncture the membrane I have to talk with the architect a little bit on the roofing system and then I have to talk with the contractor from the state bid about how that array would go on a building the ray itself needs about 3,000 square feet to fit under a little under 3,000 square feet so with those parameters was looking at the spaces that might work fire hall roof is a potential even the Public Works building roof would have enough space there City Hall would have enough space on our roof up here to house that or even if we needed to put it in a grid on a space over here that could be done as well I looked at those options first because we have um we years years ago the city signed up with a solar garden program where we buy solar credits from a comp a third company we receive those credits and those turn into savings on our Excel Energy bill and we get about an 8 point I think it was 88.6% uh savings on our XL Energy bill the cost difference between buying the credits and the XL Energy bill so our bill is 88.6% cheaper because we participate in the program it's a good program to be a part of um but the fire hall location and the City Hall location didn't have those credits applied so if you built an array there would go right onto the it would go straight towards reducing the utility bill in those areas why the fire hall uh looked good is because we'd be with a 40 kilowatt array uh we'd be looking at producing a little over 50 52,000 kilowatt hours per year and the fire hall uses about 54,000 kilowatt hours per year so it take care of 98% of the utility bill for the fireh hall just for having it exist some good C savings there if we did it for City Hall we'd have to scale it down a bit because City Hall uses about 40,000 it was a bit higher but thanks to the LED upgrades and what have you it's gone down I I think by about 20-ish percent electric usage can I just something in my memory popped up so have you mentioned this to Andy yes okay yep um I only say that is because I recall when we were talking about building the fire station they were going to I can't remember if what we picked allowed them to do trainings off the roof the answer is so the answer to that is no and I okay I can't remember where we fell on it because I knew that that was one conversational point was that to do like repelling and that kind of stuff right but I don't remember where we landed yeah so the roof that's on the fire hall is a basted roof so it has The Rock so you have to be careful about how you walk on it because the rock can par puncture through the that's underneath that's versus an EPDM roof or mechanically adhered where it's actually affixed to the roof itself rather than because the ballasted rock provides the weight to keep it down if you have EPDM roof it's actually adhered or mechanically fixed to the roof itself so it doesn't pull off I just couldn't remember I know we talked about it and I can't remember if we picked the roof that you could train on or not I so if you talk to Andy and he would be if that was a viable option and he was out a bit for last week so I I had emailed him asking about with the fire station roof he got back to me on Saturday because he had been out of town that's where I'm coming back tonight it's like well fire hall sounded really good right up until I got the email from Andy on Saturday after the packets all went out now I'm coming back and say well if I to it's not that the project goes away it's that we can shift credits around with the solar program okay so even though they're allocated to buildings I've talked to the company say yep you can shift credits it would have been cleaner and easier and not that it's a Monumental task by any stretch but if the fire hall was able to do it goes right off the utility Bild it's clean we don't have to shift credits anything like that but to shift credits is not a big deal just contact the company say this is how much we want to shift and they'll go ahead and do it um so you can look at City Hall for that otherwise look at the water treatment facility and the yard space right out front here want to make sure we keep enough for the car show of course we want to pinch them out but we could use this area in here to put up the solar array or if we get out to the wastewater treatment facility plenty of space out front here to throw up a solar array since the treatment facility upgrades are looking to be in the back it wouldn't be affecting front and then we just shift solar credits okay um I'll just be transparent I'm not open to on the ground in the city next to the water treatment plant I think they're ugly and I think there's a lot of unknowns about what's produced from solar and I'm not interested in having that near residential or schools so just transparency on uh where I would feel more comfortable like on a roof I'm okay with but not necessarily fenced in and a few like right next to where a lot of people are sure so yep that's fair but treatment facility like that kind those I'm more open and do you know the lifespan of these panels they're usually warrantied for 20 to 20 to 25 years but I'll be getting that more of that information when I talk to the contractors about it this is more of a kickoff yeah we should certainly pursue it and get more information and see what would be viable or not for us or you know any viable options well yeah I mean once the new facil is built I mean could we explore it at that time or you know a rooftop I would so this is a program that comes around every once in a while uh so but we could take advantage of it in multiple rounds so next year you could do it the year after you could do it if it's available it's only available ex to excel customers because part of your Excel Energy bill if you list out one of those line items that listed on there as a fee funds this program because if I'm not mistaken that green that first building is g to go yes once the new stuff is constructed might go might get repurposed to something else but down here you're because it's going to do that weird Shifty thing and it has to be what certain proximity to the building you want it close so you can get the electrical lines dug in for Fairly lower cost you don't want it way out there because now you're having to run an electrical line all that distance so you want it fairly close to the facilities so roof and the two roofs behind that not large enough area these are ballasted I'll be asking questions about them just to make sure but if we're running into the same issues with ballasted then we'd be looking got it more research to do I think get the direction to pursue all our options and then we discuss you know you'll come back at what we can and can't do and then we yep make decisions there but I think we should look at them all oh yeah absolutely but I'm kind of with Nikki I'm not uh not necessarily a fan of having them on the ground yeah they may come back say they the rough is fine and you can do it there Point yeah well I want to give it the overview to make sure I'm not like no we don't want this at all I mean even the ones out on the fields like half the panels are working and not I think it just looks really ugly yeah I think it's a little tacky so from the finance end of things uh so I talked with CZ which is the University of Minnesota clean energy resource team and they give free consultations as part of this program so I had a good conversation with them and uh the max size you can go with is 40 kilowatts and the range of cost of that is somewhere between 115 and 140,000 depending so I just went on the high side because that's what I do Under the program that would make the city share $26,000 if it was 140 if it was 115 then that would go down to 115 because then it would fall within the pure 90% range on that so if you go on the high side of that M multiply this may not be allinclusive of all the rights just because they have demand loads they have base charges things like that so I went with the pure what I knew we would get refunded for so if you take that rate um on any of the locations if you built it out full you'd be looking at a sub six-year return on investment and if the panels are lasting 20 to 25 years the remainder of that would be peer Sav similar to what we considered the ROI for the light lighting retrofit here type of scenario any other questions on that yeah please uh please pursue get more information see what see if we have some viable options sounds good I will continue to pursue and bring back information thank you and with that then we will adjourn I didn't I have an hour yeah um okay so we're probably not having the