as a preliminary matter this is Jillian Prendergast I am chair of the finance committee um please permit me to confirm that all members and persons anticipated on the agenda are present and can hear me um finance committee members when I call your name please respond in the affirmative um Nathan yes Linda Linda is having a technological challenge um yes uh Peter yes all right and Linda can you hear us I'm assuming that's maybe and not yet all right um so tonight we do have the pleasure of um having our guests on the capital planning committee so I'm not sure Doug if you would like to call out your members who are present to see if they can hear um no we don't usually need to do that separately okay my guys have good connections if not they let us know okay sounds good um all right so we do have um Capital planning here tonight with us um so uh good evening this is a meeting of the finance committee meet uh meor finance committee it is being conducted via Zo Zoom speakers on the agenda will participate remotely uh and the chair may allow for the public to provide comment uh please note that while the option for remote attendance and or participation is being provided as a courtesy the meeting will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast to individual intend attendees unless otherwise required by law Please be aware that other folks may be able to see you um and hear you and the recording will also capture this so please take care not to screen share your computer or any sensitive information anything you broadcast may be captured by this recording um meeting materials can be found on board doc um and I think that is probably all the agenda or all of the meeting script that we need for tonight um so I would like to turn um I would like to turn to the finance committee to ask who may be taking notes for us tonight do we have a volunteer you can do it Julian thanks ly okay thanks Linda so um so I'll call the mayard finance committee meeting to open um at 701m that was when I started reading the script um and I would love to turn to our first agenda topic which is discussing uh capital and future Capital planning needs with the capital planning committee so and I'd like to thank you all for coming here tonight to talk with us so um so I think we were we were hoping to learn more about we know you have a process we know you have that cleargo tool thank you for sharing that um and you also have like a different spreadsheet tool where you sort of prioritize the different Capital needs of the Town um so we hoping to learn more about that and how we might be able to integrate so we're also working on um a future like three-year planning using as in the ATM budget like sort of the main budget categories to try to project forward to see how we might be able to anticipate um upcoming needs in the Town based on past um spending Trends in the major B budget categories but um I didn't really feel like that had like some of the capital plans and some of the other overrides we've had in the past sort of captured in there so this is why we were sarting uh we wanted to talk to you all and get an idea of your process so we could learn from you and your experience all right you want me to take that or go any Capital people want to do some explaining yeah you're the chair Doug you you take it away all right I'll get it started so we talk to the four department heads of the town and they all have some ideas about what kind of projects we're going to need in the future um we compile it into a big spreadsheet and it's getting all set up on cleargov we got most of it except for a few new projects we just learned about haven't been processed yet um after that we rate it we've got a what fivepoint rating system where each of us individually rate and then average our scores together to see how important every project is in regards to Public Safety operational efficiency adherence to the master plan um what are our other categories growth oh yeah Town growth and did you say say it again efficiency or or necessity oh I think I said that one okay regulation legal yeah oh yeah and trying to not get the town sued legal so yeah we all score those we all average our scores together that makes our project priority list and then we talk about them and see if our priorities match what we think the priorities are sometimes one of us has different ideas that we discuss and try to convince each other what's best for the town yeah if I may add to what Doug just said and Doug I think just summarized everything we do really um you know I think the definition of capital is obviously important as well so we consider like a capital project to be something that is uh 20 greater than or equal to $25,000 and must have a useful life of more than 5 years or if it's something for like land um then it is greater than $50,000 with a useful life of 10 years and so like land that that second categor is for land buildings think about that is like um massive Capital injections right like very large type projects um for that second part so I think that's also important just to note how we Define those two things yeah a lot of what we focus on is buildings and vehicles um and just to add a little bit more color to What doug was saying in terms of how we're gaining some understanding of the projects when we're not experts in DPW or sewer or the variety of things that come in front of capital planning um we spend time talking to the department heads and we have them prioritize themselves their projects um in the past it was like on a one two three system but this year we asked them to actually rank prioritize them so we have you know like I think the school right now has about 10 projects in the queue and so they are ranked one through 10 in order of their um what they've determined is most important um so that is also just like helpful context for us as we're thinking about what the need looks like um and then we are considering those the prioritization at the department level and comparing across departments you know for what makes the most sense holistically for the town um we do have one interesting problem that maybe the finance committee people can help us solve um it's difficult for us to plan years in advance because a lot of the capital money comes from free cash for the town we've only recently got a a line item and it's far too small to make significant Capital Improvements in this town so without knowing what our funds are going to be for any given year because free cash is so variable we have a rank order of the most important projects and we fund the ones that we can afford that are the highest priority but you know sometimes the town needs more expensive things and then we talk about what kind of debt burden that's going to cause us and John likes to focus on optimizing timings to try to minimize impact to the taxpayer but if we need to build a new DPW garage soon we're figuring out when's the best time to do that and how expensive will it be per year what's our or annual payments to service the debt and how does that relate oh sorry keep going oh how does that relate to all of our our previous debts from all the previous schools and town halls and DPW things that we've built that we still paying for the previous 30 years and I add to Doug I mean like again we're kind of all like counting on each other and adding each other here as we're thinking about other things that are going on you know one of the other issues is though we think about our budget for Capital planning in the town of mayard as free cash right typically speaking in the line that Doug just mentioned different departments obviously also spend money on what would be capital projects within their own operating budgets so for example think about the DPW as a whole 99% what the DPW is doing is like long-term capital things for the town right I mean like when you're Paving a roadway when you're doing a sidewalk they're doing those things part of their day-to-day as well as having like longer term like major over Halls uh to the you know to the intersection down by the the gas station in town there you know you you have these like these these capital projects that are happening like within the operating budgets which so again you know we all say like oh you know we're only spending this amount of money we are spending a lot on these uh across the town and capital but when it comes to these big projects that come down the pipeline that you have to really prioritize that's where Doug's saying like it's just frankly there's a there's a small share of capital to go around for these big oneoff items and people sometimes also forget how expensive this stuff is I mean the the new intersection down there by Cumberland Farms you know that's going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and that's including money we're getting uh from Grants so like we're already taking a chunk of that off and it's still going to cost I'm trying to pull up the Clear G I want to say it was like $400,000 from our free cash did that sound right I think so it's like it was uh yeah it was 4 4:30 I think yeah 4:30 so it's like these are the other things where you know it's it's um when it comes to the amount of funds that we have to allocate when we're talking about these giant projects right these big things like ambulances fire trucks police cruisers these things cost 50 to $500,000 right off the bat and if we only have a million to play with there there goes half our budget to one thing or you know two things or you know so it's always this game as Doug mentioned this optimization type thing of being like well we can fund one thing or we can fund four things for that same and it's like you that's your balance you're playing with when you have this constrained set of money or this constrained pool uh that that's set up so just want to add that as well and you'll you know on on June whenever that meeting is next week June June 11th June 10th um the presentation that we're giving you'll see some of this outlined and there are some recommendations that the capital planning committee has for how we start to get ahead of that and not just year-over-year plan to use whatever free cash is available so we will include some recommendations for how to get ahead of that thanks that's that's super helpful to frame our our thoughts on this topic do you all have questions for us or ideas or things love to hear any questions you all have uh I did have a list of questions trying to find where it is my notes but I have a I have a question do you keep an inventory of the capital assets that the town has like you know the buildings the land any land that is excellent question Ben do you want to take that one yes yeah Linda I'm not sure if you could see me smile or not during that question he just throughout there but uh yeah not we we do um I'll tell just brief story you know we we actually went to uh the town and said can we get the insurance documents just to start somewhere right because most of the capital assets when you think about trucks buildings these things have to have insurance policies on them so a great way of starting and I I joked at the committee my wife and I actually drove around to try to find all the buildings because you know we're talking about like small sewer pump stations that are on certain roads that are tucked behind houses we're like looking back you know trying to find it or whatnot so it's kind of an awkward afternoon but needless to say yes we do it's something we've worked on this year to focus on and to get a better list of what's Happening a as for the capital of the town and where that money is at and it's it's a significant chunk of of capital that we have and I say Capital not in the sense of money but in the sense of of items right we have you know dozens of dump trucks and police cruisers and fire trucks and ambulances buildings I mentioned the sewer lift stations those things all over the place to help pressurize our sewer systems and work on these things so uh yes we do have that we have worked with and shown that to Justin DeMarco and in the DPW and kind of getting his feedback so we can kind of cross reference his to make sure we're not missing anything uh as well as we've been working on developing a map that shows uh us like all the locations for the you fixed assets for when I say fixed I mean by the sense of like geographically fixed like buildings like these sewer lift stations um not so much obviously on the cars and trucks and where their garage that but yeah so we we do keep track of all of that and we've been working hard to make sure that is um going to be up to date and updated each year as we get these insurance documents the town provides so that's kind of our our back way of getting into that data which has really been actually very useful for us I can give a a simple simpler briefer answer that town owns about $6 Million worth of vehicles and another $200 million worth of buildings any any vacant land consider the course vacant land aband in buildings what the old fire station the Artscape yeah and there's there's Parks obviously as well which again like you know depending the town does actually own a good chunk but I wouldn't again call that vacant land but no when you're talking about like the sense of like owning like a 10 acre lot that they're just sitting on that that's not the case that we know of for we've seen a documentation on at this point but right now I'd say our list is is new it's only a few months old we just um it still needs some work but it's a really good beginning it's a very strong beginning um we need to work on the insurance docs don't give the best replacement costs so we're more concerned about they're more like value now and we need to know what's it going to cost to replace that asset so we are working with Justin and probably other department heads later on what do you think it's going to cost to replace that Bobcat's skid or whatever it is and they'll give us a better thing than what it's insured at um I know everyone's we I was I'd like to say that one thing that we do or are doing is um when we evaluate the projects and we prioritize them we split them out so we starting to take a look at we carve out all the projects that are competing for um kind of pay as you go funds or general funds that are going to be probably have to be sourced out of free cash or the capital line item or um maybe receipts or something else uh versus the debt projects those almost have to be looked at completely separately so the big projects like um bleachers Senior Center the school GMS um and the um DPW Yard that needs to be replaced those four four projects we kind of carve out and look at um differently so what we're really trying to focus our the town on and and the quad meeting is all right let's look at the general fund and what's our capacity in any given year how much can we fund on these types of projects and then look at the debt here's what we're going to have to issue for debt over the next whatever five 10 years um and then we pulled in some debt schedules from the town to kind of also say all right when is debt rolling off from maybe the high school or the police station where it might make sense to say all right that we can lessen the tax impact on the on the citizens if we kind of line up um the senior center with Once something rolls off unfortunately it doesn't look like much is rolling off in the next five years but um we are taking a look at that so when we look at the big ones we're looking more in the context of what the debt serviceing costs are going to be versus uh what would come out of general fund you mentioned four projects I only I only heard oh sorry I only heard three bleachers Senior Center and DPW garage is there a fourth one Green Meadow bleachers Green Meadow okay yeah thank you yeah because we we have new debt issu on coming up for Green Meadow that was my exact question what was what were the four I only heard three yeah and then there are there are there are a number other projects that we should probably talk about um about like these are bit these will these will never get paid out of general fund they're just they're in that that Twilight Zone between you know too big for a general fund because we couldn't afford it in any given year and to too maybe too small for a oneoff debt issue maybe it's only a million or something like that um 700,000 like the roof the the roof at the country club is like the perfect sweet spot where it's never it's too much to ever be funded in one given year but it's you know do we need to combine it with other projects so we need to talk about that as a as a quad board to kind of figure out how how those gets tackled um when you talk about something like the roof at the Country Club um do you guys have materials or numbers that could be circulated to say okay you and I get situations change but you know if we were going to do that as debt but through the operating budget it would be I don't know $100,000 a year for 10 years um or you know some easy way to look at stuff like that we're starting to look at that in fact um when I when I talk about our capacity to pay from general fund what I like to do is look at what we have spent on Capital spending over the last few years um and it it's it's like one 1.2 somewhere in there eight8 anywhere between 800 and 1.5 I think if you look over if you take everything that we actually spent on something that we would call a a capital project it rolls around there but I also include um the debt servicing on non-excluded debt because those those Debt Service payments actually go are paying for some big Capital project like G just said in the past and we're still paying for um I think probably 20,000 rolled off of that debt this past year but it got kind of well we got it maybe in the capital line item it it doesn't get appropriated back to say oh that's Deb servicing that we could use for another $700,000 project or something like that and and I think we're going to bring that conversation like that non-excluded debt servicing should be part of our Capital planning capacity to pay in our minds and and when it goes down in a given year our line item should go up to offset pay for projects and then after that adds up for a couple years now we can talk about a million dollar borrowing out of our Capital line item because we've we've banked enough operationally does that make sense am I thinking about that the right way from have you guys talked about this yes uh we haven't talked about that that I know of but that actually makes total sense but that would be we need to get the select board to you know kind of direct the Town Administrator that that line doesn't get cut it's not I mean I'm sure we all love it when there's savings there and then we can fund something else but you're right that would be at least a starting point on how to get some more money for Capital yeah I think that the the debts the debts that it's servicing I think overall it's like 120,000 right now a year that is going to non-excluded debt from I from what I can piece together um we and just so you know what I'm doing is I'm taking the revenue from debt um that's the excluded debt and a minus out the account line for right debt I'm saying that the difference must be our excluded debt which is about 120 back when um Mike Sullivan was Town Administrator we did a 2 million uh debt Thing That Was Then rolled into the operating budget I suspect it's mostly that I'm not aware of anyware of much other debt I think there are there are like four or five different different loans okay the Green Meadow School roof I think was a was a if I there might be a Green Meadow roof that's an excluded I think there's a roof I I want to say Fowler still on there and are you talking about John sorry if I missed this only stuff that's being service out of the general fund or any fund okay um Bower I think yeah and not not stuff that's subject to an override just no anything that got subject to an override we're not count we're talk the stuff out of the general fund somewhere H fer ended in FY 23 by the way for my understanding so that's the one that just rolled off but like and now we got a little Capital item so maybe that went there I don't know they that line item went down so it have freed up the money to go somewhere else and we got a little Capital line out um I have some other questions and thoughts um I don't want to cut off other members or all right uh cut somebody yell at me if I'm talking too much but um first just on priorities and I don't think this is a shock to anybody um but you know from my Layman's point of view um I would think water supply really is you know kind of what I think of is the biggest priority right now just mostly because of the constraints on growth um and then that gets complicated and I know there's not going to be any numbers on this but I think it's a huge thing we should already be factoring in but as um P standards you know particularly if we're on wellwater and all of a sudden you know some $30 million treatment plant and so I I I don't think there's anything to talk too much about that um I am curious um the things you list for I guess your kind of big projects um and I know I've heard from some people asking me um as a fincom member um how do you guys evaluate the priority of the bleachers and are you know it's a fact of life but I'm just going to say it this way are the bleachers jumping the list just based on political pressure which you know is a reality that's how stuff gets funded I don't but you know when you if you compare it to like the DPW garage and I the money's totally different I get that but the bleachers are not inconsequential um I think the momentum is basically now it may be that we get substantial funding from cap uh Community preservation committee and it isn't as big a nut as you know $3 million um but I'm I've had a couple of people ask me wait why are we doing bleachers with all the stuff we need I'm really glad you brought up the bleachers I was hoping we get a chance to talk about that John Brett would you like to talk I'm on community pres preservation board and um there are a lot of things that that this the community preservation board cannot fund uh like they can't fund the um broadcast Booth um and there are other things within that um we have done right now we've got we're funding the debt on the um Golf Course to twoe $13,000 a year which cuts into our $500,000 total budget that we have each year uh to deal with uh there are other other constraints that that we're fa deal with because the state mandates that we allocate money out of that 500,000 to other project three other project areas so we are not going to have money to support the redo of the bleachers um and the school committee has not presented anything formally yet to this to the community uh preservation committee on the bleachers so and can I just add Peter I think what you're asking basically point blank is that the bleachers have elevated in priority just to be clear we have not yet prioritized the bleachers because number one there isn't a final number on that number two no fund to pay for it has been recommended other than an override which would go obviously to town meeting um so that's currently we're aware of it because it's something that's going to have to happen but if you look at like the prioritization of things that came out of free cash at the last town meeting the bleachers was not in there because frankly free cash couldn't pay for it um so I think the capital planning committee is in a little bit of a weird spot where we're we're not in a we're not a governance committee we make recommendations our prioritization process is fairly transparent and does include you know those um those categories that we met mentioned at the beginning the bleachers I don't know that they necessarily uh rise to the level of urgency as some of the other projects you know that you'll hear about next week um in terms of prioritization but if the school comes back and says well we're going to go to annual town meeting and we're going to ask for an override the capital planning committee is sort of removed from the conversation of that point unless we were going to get up a town meeting and say this is a terrible idea don't do it there are all of these other projects and I think a lot of other education needs to happen in advance of that because I think most people don't have a very firm grasp on a lot of this and I I don't know is that what you were getting at does that answer your question um a little bit and thank you um that that is the Crux of it um I guess you know nobody can predict what's going to happen by you know guess would be bleachers are a likely project and whether that's a you know million doll override with funding from other sources or a $3 million override because that's the only funding source available that that's likely to go forward um I guess I would say you know the town has a limited appetite to do overrides and while I tend to think bleachers would likely pass does it then you know inhibit support for you know something that's a more critical project you know further down the line because people just feel like oh we're doing overrides all the time and we just did green and Green Meadow I mean that gets weird because there's so much State funding but my feeling was that wasn't on the list for another five years and that just kind of happened and whatever weing with it um but that's another one that kind of was out of turn in a lot of ways um but you know limits our ability to do other projects because this kind of you I don't know popular stuff pops up discussion we have to have is is like and also who who's the gatekeeper as to what projects kind of make their way because you've got every I don't know interested party running their own little research groups on on projects that they they want built so um absolutely the senior center is more likely to kind of put political pressure over the DPW like you see that building right now right um so but I I can tell you from our projections that trying to do all of this and five years is going to put our debt servicing at like 133% of our annual revenues which is really high it should be around you know 8 to 10% is probably what we should Target um of how much of our annual revenues are going to service debt and and the that we're going to be we're going to be we're going to have to go above that in order to launch to issue the projected 88 million that it's going to cost to cover all four of those projects has fincom ever discussed what they think is an an appropriate level a maximum amount of debt the town should carry or how much of our Revenue should go to paying it not to my knowledge uh um we have in the past but we've never gotten a really good number so I feel like we've asked a question of Greg before but like if there's a standard in the industry that won't affect our bond rating I'm just curious John when you say 133% of Revenue is that that's including override stuff how I projected it was I took um I took took a baseline of whatever the um Revenue the General Revenue is off of um this year's warrant article or budget increased it by two and a half% per year added 350,000 of new growth and then any debt that was issued I did it as an override so I added that to the revenue it's actually goes to the denominator and the right reader and right 12.8% so um and Peter getting back to your point just in thinking about how these large projects get prioritized this I mean I I would ask all of you too if you have thoughts and ideas on how we can better educate people because we've been saying this for several years now is that the DPW garage is coming and we will have to pay for it that building is an absolute disaster we all went in it a couple years ago the senior center is coming and there's a lot of pressure for that these are things that we need to have that um are not terribly sexy the way bleachers are and people really like to get emotionally um fired up about bleachers and so and but there are so many people who I think understand this just through the lens of town meeting the moment that they arrive they hear the impassioned argument and then they make the call and so how do you educate people about all the capital needs and all of the budget planning um so that people make informed decisions I don't have the answer I'm wondering if any of you has come up with a bright idea [Music] can we do graduation at the new DPW garage my daughter's graduating Friday so let's wait till next year on that one no you you hit the nail on the head Lindsay I mean that's exactly the issue is that um I I again I you know I have some concerns myself and on one particular person who's in my year all the time about how the hell the bleachers rank this High um he's wanting someone to step forward and say no it shouldn't and I don't know if I'm there yet and just again for clarity currently the bleachers are not prioritized anywhere they are just on our Collective Capital planning committee radar but they are not most likely thing to happen they're they're in the prior but the way that they will happen is that the school will bring it to town meeting and ask for the override it will not happen via the capital plan planning process so that so yes they will happen but again this goes back to how do you get ahead of that conversation to help people understand that there's much more to it than just that moment at town meeting yeah and I think the schools have to figure out how they're going to push an override for the bleachers and and operating costs operating budget for next year well yeah that's a whole other discussion but I I think they are likely to want to do that also right yeah um I also wanted to know about the potential sizes of the bleacher project we've discussed it we've heard about the bleachers back when it was just demolishing and building metal chairs and then it got more expensive when they added a press box and it got more expensive with a a vendor stand and then it got more expensive with the bathrooms and the plumbing and it's it's ballooned up to a $3 million project but of us think if we just knock down the chairs and build more metal chairs we could do that for under a million I wonder if vom's ever discussed these things we did right but more from their point of view a while ago um yeah and I've also I've been going to some of the the other CPC the um not the capital planning committee but the community preservation committee meetings to understand because they did some really nice Research into the topic um and there has been some planning I was my understanding is there was going to be some updated plan which I haven't seen yet that had a scalable number of seats but my understanding is once you get past a certain number of seats now you're legally obligated to put in bathrooms um so I think that there will be some need once you go past a certain number of seats there has to be a certain number of bathrooms um but the the press stand for wavm and the snack stand is is um my understanding is like something separate that they want that they feel is very important for this project um but to me those aren't bleachers so uh I think the wavm it sounded like that apparatus would somehow be built on the top or the back of the bleacher and there was maybe ability to do it modularly but I have not I've not seen updated plans since probably Jan uary there there were updated plans on a select board meeting and they did show the scaled pricing um based on the number of seats because there was a question as to how many seats were actually needed and I think they the project they started with a thousand they said if you scaled back to 750 how much would it be if you scaled back to 500 how would it much would it be going back to 750 was the minimum number of seats that seemed reasonable for the crowd sizes that would use the bleachers and it only saved about $200,000 that's I think we also need sorry Jullian go ahead no no please go ahead no and I think if for those that were at town meeting which I think many of you were I mean there is also the comment about resurfacing the field and redoing the tennis courts and re building the fence and adding a spa or whatever else was at it like there was just a lot going on right and I think like the idea is like that entire area is this massive project that's occurring so I think like these are part of the the questions and things that we as capital planning committee you know we we hear about I'm sure you all in fincom hear about too where it's you know these are difficult things that have to be decided and sometimes it's you know people ask for the the Rolls-Royce and we just need the Chevy right and it's just like you know these are all the costs and benefits that go through but you know as everyone else in this committee has said and sounds like you all too we're somewhat in the dark in some of these very large projects that are more in the rumor mill or that are occurring in those other ch chanels where studies and research is being done and looked at and discussed and then kind of flopped out in a town meeting or in a warrant article or suddenly in a select board we we have those as well you know we try to think about it as we are proactively going to the town the heads of the Departments and saying like what are you thinking about like what are the things coming down your pipelines that we need to be aware of and when these ad hoc items come up yeah kind of like you all we're we're a little bit in the dark and there's a lot of public opinion and I'm sure some of you are on the Facebook pages of people making opinions all over the place it's like that's where the ball just gets rolling where it kind of goes outside of capcom's and probably outside of Fin's area where we're kind of stuck with you know how that the town votes and I think that's the idea of Education we've all talked about as well um one of the things I think fincom has tried to do along those lines and you know it all it's of limited value but is to push back on this stuff and ask specific well what ises Capcom think and where is this on their list how many years has it been on their list um and try to push the process through you guys um but I know that that you know there are these things that pop up and we can't always fix that um so I mean to to Ben's point about the balloon a ballooning list of projects associated with the bleachers you know you got a fraction of people that that are adamant that the field is more important than the bleachers because you've got players being injured um on the on the current playing surface of of the Alumni field so where's all that come into play and there's been no discussion from the school committee on that at all that I'm aware of so um the there's there's there's a battle there is there is no one is taking from in it's it's not the capital planning committee's job to sit there and and put the initial projects together and say this is a this is what we are looking at and I think we have to continually push back and say is this all is this this this en all-encompassing of all the things that need that are associated with the high school U playing sures I will say I don't know where the school committee stands on this but uh recently when I was having a conversation with Brian hos and Wayne White about capital projects in general for the schools because we all collectively you know we leay is on to different departments and the schools are my department so I was asking them to give me some sense of what they see coming in the next fiveish years as we are trying to prepare this plan for this meeting next week that includes a fiveyear look um and I asked about the field the tennis courts the lights all of the everything else that's involved that isn't the bleachers um and they did acknowledge you know we have to wait before we can ask for money for that because we've just you know asked the town to pay for Green Meadow we're trying to ask the town to pay for bleachers they're you know they acknowledged all of the budget asks of the town they said that doesn't seem like something we need to add to the list so at least for Brian hos and Wayne White that part does not seem to be as urgent I don't know if the school committee agrees um but in the conversation that I had had that was the sense that I got and also just one other note this is like a small process thing but for you guys on fincom if people are coming and lobbying you know you and you're asking if Capital planning like where this sits on the priority list for something like the bleachers um you know with the exception of a few years ago where we actually did we we have a process people you know department heads put in a project request and then it comes through us we do not generate any project requests because we don't like that that's not under our purview we wait for the information to come and then we prioritize it and rank it so for the bleachers there were a couple requests um from several years ago but I think just because of a lack of understanding about who had purview or where it should come from they were like all over the place I mean they were wildly varying in numbers there were projects that were based on a study from 10 years ago that said it would be five 00,000 there was a repair option that was approximately that much there was another um uh request that was like 1.2 that I think was from the schools but it was old so we actually didn't have and still don't have an updated project request it's is really just approximate and that is the case also with the senior center is another one that comes up a lot um and um before now there's a senior center steering committee and I think kind of all of the right people are in the room and at the same conversation but even about a year ago I know that I heard questions from people saying why haven't you prioritized the senior center it actually was not we had no project request for it we knew about it we knew that there was desire for it we had no project request for it no amount for it so there is this process that maybe whether it's onerous or not I don't know or limiting but for you all when you're saying to people has the Capcom prioritize this yet I would actually say back up and ask has this gone to Capital planning it have you talked about it with anyone and has it entered into their priority queue can I follow up on the senior I'm the liais on to that committee and you know they're talking about a decision about maybe lease in the short term build in the long term um do you ever talk about Le that decision of lease build say for vehicles or equipment or if there were I don't know if there's any other projects where that that question comes up about is it more fiscally fine or even efficient to do with just looking at leasing in term instead of building yeah Linda I think that goes back to that definition I mentioned earlier where there's the requirement to own five years $25,000 minimum um uh uh investment for something so like a year-to-year lease on a commercial space is not something that would fall under the capital planning perview when you say things like lease to own certain departments such as the fire department it is typical of fire department equipment like a fire truck you basically no Town buys one out right they always lease to own it so the leases think about it more of like a car payment that's how we really interpret it because they're buying the truck at the end of the lease so we think about it more as that is how the industry within fire trucks and ambulances think about that so that is the one exception we always like to caveat because it it's it's just kind of how it's done in that industry and then we we ultimately own the asset it's just a different structure on how the money is paid out in that case so just did want to mention that one cave because we have had questions about that in the past but so typically lease's no is not under our prview and then and then we've just we've visited probably 10 or 11 different senior centers in similarly sized towns of mayard and almost all of them many of them are much more of a community center their senior center until 3 o'cl then the wreck department takes over or their coo ated with vet the veterans agent the um I don't think we have a town social worker but maybe the town nurse uh Rec departments other departments are collocated as they're building out their senior centers in your projects is there anything else that might um fit in as we move forward so we're not just doing one project at a time but if there was I mean I'm thinking is there like in is there anything in town hall where people are crowded that you're looking for any expansion at town offices that that might be a good complement as as we're planning that process my I would say um not spending the projected $2 million to renovate the roof in the envelope at the Country Club and just think about ways to just patch it and then completely build a new structure there would be an opportunity to save like like that would be a place where we're wondering we're going to put in I don't know there's close to2 million in requests for that building alone and if the senior center is not even going to be there like what there's opportunities there or why okay yeah and then the other thing is as we look at these other senior centers they all have more staff than mayor they're similar size towns similar senior population they all have more staff once you have the senior center um you know we've got to do all the maintenance all the Landscaping which I think as I understand reading the golf course contract Sterling management is covering a lot of those costs for us um do you ever when you do a your Capital planning do you ever look at the operational side or the operational impact of these projects to date we haven't but in our clear forms there are places for us to capture that so the new clear Go's new to us and we're still ironing it out but there's a lot more data that we're capturing or capable of capturing um on the request and they have a whole section on uh potential operating impacts from this Capital project whole section on it we're not requiring that it's filled in right now we need them to just get in and using it right now and use prioritization before we capture all those all right yeah thank you and Linda I think those are both fantastic question and I would love if those came up during the budget planning process for all of the boards to discuss because neither of them really should sit alone with the capital planning committee they should be discussed amongst you know all four boards um excuse me I wanted to go back for one second to uh Lindsay's comments or I think it was Lindsay about um you know people not submitting a project to Capital planning committee um like bleachers or Senior Center um and I just I guess i' Advocate that you should have a way to create a project yourself and I assume you do and maybe this is just all semantics but that you know you put stuff on the list so I think senior center in bleachers the issue is you know to some degree people can't fill out detailed information about it because they don't really know and you know part of that's the bleacher study that I think should be done by now but I don't know and then you know this Senior Center committee to come up with something that you could then fill out you know more detail to give to Capital planning committee but um you know I guess I do assume you have some way to you know put stuff on the list even if nobody's proposed okay that's good um yes and sorry if I misrepresent to that or misspoke I'll add we do we have a way to put anything into cleargov it's more that I don't know all the nuances of building bleachers for example so without I'll use that one or a senior center to be to be honest so without any of the background information if the school says you know and this was the case about a year ago even I think last summer the school was saying we need to do bleachers it's a big emergency the bleachers have fallen down and everyone's like oh my God how are we going to pay for the new bleachers how much would they cost and the cost range it was anywhere from a million to we don't know how much money so to for the capital planning process we can have an eye on that as a project that exists but at that point without any of the further information about why do we need bleachers have we spoken to the athletic director if people can't sit on the Alumni field is there some other place that they can sit you know all of that stuff which is part of our process but doesn't really start to the fall we can't really prioritize it we can you know included in our understanding of what's coming further down the road and bleachers I think is like a particularly complex example because at the same time the um the school wasn't even sure at that point what they would need kind of it was like well we might be able to get money from CPC we might be able to use money from here so there just was not enough Clarity to for anyone to enter anything anywhere in clear glove or otherwise um and I you know maybe I misrepresented that a little bit because there are like some of the projects um for example for the schools recently I enter in I think I don't know like annual maintenance on roofs or something um so we do have an ability to enter things in with approximate amounts um we just don't necessarily when it's something that big and there's so little information we don't get to a place where we're prioritizing it without without more detail right okay um I figure i' just pull it up as we're talking because sometimes I'm a visual person so if that's helpful I can pull something up um totally whack ball question but um and I don't know that why I'm addressing it to you except your Capital planning um is there any model in any town that you've run across where you know kind of uh the town's people doing it themselves has been able to cut the cost of a project or or so I mean if anything could get 50 people out with all their hand tools and everything it's got to be building bleachers now I'm sure it's a liability Nightmare and I don't but if there's any project that it would seem like we could cut the cost by doing you know three town work Saturdays or something um this would be it and I don't have have you guys run across any models like that is that ever anything you've heard of we did something similar like that a few months ago we were had to spread a bunch of wood chips out over the park and instead of paying for them to to shovel them all out the town's people just got up and did it themselves just got a dump truck full of wood chips and dumped it next to the park everybody got their shovels and wheelbarrows and I think we saved a bunch of money I don't know if we can do that for that's much more project but how did you get the word out about that project someone put up a sign in the park looking for volunteers I think there was maybe a committee when we had it when we had the votex rol come they did volunteer if we needed some certain projects they they might be able to assist us yeah that would be another resource but I mean we certainly have enough contractors in town that you know I think are sports people also um so yeah I don't know it uh anyway if any project could benefit from that it would seem to be bleachers yeah I think you'd have to take a at what the the state bylaw the state laws are regarding things like that because you got to deal Ada issues and safety and things like that yes Jillian you're on the wrong um I don't think I gave you what we've done is this is out of date what you're looking at is out a date oh is a date yeah so um I can share and show you the more updated one if you don't have permission let me know I think I can uh disabled yeah I can't share all right don't uh don't don't hang the meeting up I'm going to make you the host so last time I did this it was a disaster there should be an option to make you a co-host but I don't see it so you are now you now should be able to share okay so and CLA go this too you you have access to this one what happens is when we can you guys see the screen M uh when we create a new one for fiscal 25 all of the projects come over and then we can kind of clean them up so this is the current capital plan so 98 projects 213 million in requests um some water and sewer and stuff aren't aren't in included I don't have them included in what we call the budget right now um because we haven't had time to really look at the water and sore but this is essentially the most current now if you go to the requests you won't be even if I give you access you won't be able to see them because um see how they're all pending resubmission um the next step is for the DPW for the department heads to go in and they're going to have to resubmit their things for this current year we've worked with them all we've talked to them all so I think this year they're GNA have a real easy time resubmitting because Capital planning has spent a lot of time um f tuning this list for the quad meeting so I think the list is in Fairly good shape and reflect um what's needed so um there's a DPW for example so it's in it the numbers are getting better but we still need to like go through a final thing where the department heads will go through and check everything out um so we're going to give a presentation on all of this so I don't want to go steal all over Thunder now but this is driving these numbers are driving everything in our presentation and I don't know did I give did I give access to everyone in fincom or or just some no just one account so oh all right well you know what I'll do is um let me just go back to the other one for a minute um because that one's a little bit further they're all submitted and stuff from last year what I will do is and I think we should talk about this is give you guys um the ability to be what we call reviewers and then you can go into the request manager and um review anything or make any comments read them and if you go into some of the projects you know they all have kind of let me find one um so they have a lot of detail inside each one I'm trying to find one with um oh I know which one hold on let me um if you look at the roof I is there like a public spacing interface to this where like a citizen can look at these so that's a great question that we uh no but what we can do is any one of these we like this project here we could publish as a it's publish it as a project and then yes it becomes its own it gets its own website with all of the thing in it they can't look at the whole plan like we can but um if we publish more and more projects then we can add things to the transparency Center yes but if you go on the country club roof so uh Peter do you're asking like do we have writeups and stuff these are all the writeups they're all attached and this is a good one because it's got different cost estimates based on whether you want to go green or not uh so Justin did a pretty good job of grabbing it and explaining it here some of the Hazmat stuff that goes on with it and why it's 770,000 but I could we could easily um and our hope is to increase transparency to the town is to exactly do that after we meet and some of the department heads say which ones of these can we uh publish to the site and then I want to see if it becomes I don't know where the projects are I'd have to go out right now and find it but there's a there's a site where you can go if you go to Maynard's uh cleargov site and Tool around in there you'll find the old fire station project that started as a it would be like that okay thanks but um after we go through this cycle or as we're going through this cycle I think it would be good for fincom border selectman and the school board to um all get a a ability to be a reviewer inside so that you can add your comments or or get the D the information you need to make decisions about the projects as well or support and not um and you might have heard Greg mentioned it at one of the meetings there's an $8,000 upgrade um that would give us the ability to do prioritization in there and also um scenarios so we don't have that feature but what this will let us do is say all right we're going to spend 1 million on capital projects where are we falling short we free cash is coming in at a million and our Capital line item is 50,000 what's projected to need to be cut or what can we green light that all that functionality comes with this scenario building which we don't have access to um for is that per year or is it a one time it's a license it's a per year license um and for for you for fincom there's a whole another module I don't know how much I know Greg's using the operating budget one in here um there's another one called um I forget what they call it like book um it's it's for fincom is what it's for and it's um a friend of mine who's on fincom chair fincom in Groveland uses that and was speaking about clear go a lot she end up she now works for Clear goove actually but um they use it in their um their Capital planning I mean in their fincom for their forecasting and stuff like that budget book that's what it's called budget book and it's for forecasting operating budgets which is what you guys are trying to do right that is the dream um so when you get access I mean all this is everything here um they put it in by type vehicles the road Improvement plan oh here's something we should probably talk about Peter water and so we're not we haven't had time to delve into it and because it has its own you know dedicated Revenue sources we feel like the same approach once we kind of get the approach down on handling general fund and the big debt we should try and add the same layer of um oversight and transparency to water and sore we just don't have the capacity however um storm water is not water and sore and these are big expensive projects $6 million in storm water none of these projects really I mean a couple of them these would all be like one and done um for this for all of our spending for a year because we have a lot that needs to be done and I don't know how we're going to pay I don't you know and I know this talk about maybe doing another um Enterprise fund for for stor water um but these we carve these out in this this this year um because they're not covered underwater and sore um and they're big enough to be like oh these need their own topic of conversation yeah each each you know each one Traffic Safety is the other one all the intersections that they have planned each one of those is about a million as Ben said is about a million dollar and there's like five of them right here all of these N Street at summer Parker at Great Road they're all 1.3 million I we need to keep getting those ear marks to get those costs cut in half or do something so yeah that's a really good point toise and there's not there's not an area in this current workflow to capture things like grant money or other sources to offset the capital cost this is just the gross Capital cost so we have to refine this um the right now they put in what they what they want um what they need from the town we do have it um hold on so if I start a capital request and let's just say I want to do a I'm going to request a building you can see all the stuff they can fill out um start dates end dates attachments this is where they put in their write up and stuff like they have this is new this is functionality that we haven't captured but now like we also want to start grabbing all of these like getting more holistic around the real cost of the so right now we're paying I don't know 35 uh thousand or so for planning the senior center that should be built into a part of a bigger project and it should be here with construction costs further out here's the operating costs um that you were asking about and then down here in funding sources yeah we can project where we think it's all going to come from general fund stabilization free cash grants debt so we can capture this and this is I configured all of this so we can set if we needed another one um um receipts ambulance receipts is something like I think on a fleet on if you put in a vehicle request receipts is an is an available funding source so we have that ability to to capture all of that um but part of it's just getting the department heads um in and and um getting them used to putting the data in this year it should be easier for them so hopefully they augment it with more data um they just go and check it out and then say Oh you know I can put in the operating cost of what I think it's going to cost see do you have any staff to help you with all of this work um Lindsay's my staff but she's going to the black board I'm just [Laughter] kidding no we don't we we we've done a lot of work um just us as a group unfortunately John has done a significant amount of work building out all of this infrastructure so that we just go and uh plug it in and you know meet with other departments um so that has also made it easy because of all of the really fantastic foundational work that he's done you guys have any other questions about cleargov or or where we're going uh for me I just got tired of like getting sheets spreadsheets after spreadsheets sent to me and like losing track of which numbers are right on which ones and and getting some people sending word docs and some people sending it lists and um it was really important that we if nothing else COV can be a central repository where um they go and just everyone knows everyone all the department heads can see theirs and everyone else's requests and and Greg can see it and we can see it and soon um fincom and and border of Select and or select board and um School Board should be able to see it as well um can I ask one more question um there was the early discussion about the senior center um and the discussion about leases not being in your purview and I get that um I'm not sure that we lease any Town land or you know rent office space for any other Town function but in you know evaluating a senior center and say you know I don't know what I think I saw a number in there for 12 million so you know whatever that is annually for Debt Service um I mean would it be part of your process to evaluate build versus lease as an option um wa so if and when you do consider a senior center is it possible that you would come back and say no we should rent office space for 60,000 a year and that's way less than 150,000 of Debt Service um so we don't we had a similar conversation about the cost of building bleachers versus just renting them for long periods of time yeah sure sure but you're they're talking about five versus lease and we generally don't talk about leases my my opinion is that that we should be like we're not like Lindsay said we're we're evaluating the projects based on as they're presented kind of um you know are they is it going to help the safety of the town is it going to help with growth is it going to help with those seven criteria and then we kind of we kind of grade it and yeah just as a normal course of it we will challenge it or say this you know could it be done a different way but at the end of the day you kind of there's a whole building committee that's set up to look at all the different alternatives for this stuff and I feel like that's kind of where it should be done and I think maybe Capital planning and fincom could go you know make it we should be Liaisons to those committees and be like listen I know we want the $3 million bleaches they look look awesome uh I think I'd run faster if that was up there but like we should like be like but the town really can only afford two million so what can we get for our $2 million or our one and a half million whatever like I don't know who's speaking in those when looking at Alternatives um like who's speaking up with that kind of fiscal Hawk Eye Green Meadow do we need a new school what if we just built an Annex on to Fowler we'd fix the Fowler roofs at the same time but by the time it gets to us Alternatives vetted this is our best idea kind of thing is getting there right yeah yeah I agree with John I think we're we're looped in at the at the tail end of the whole planning process and I think it's it's we need to get we need to get we been come CPC need to get involved earlier in the process with with the different town boards because John's absolutely right no one says everybody looks at this and and says you know what is the optimal solution versus what is one that we can afford right and I think I think the key thing um for the senior center I think Linda correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that that steering committee is considering um options like that and you know again just to Echo what John and Jonathan said it like by the time it gets to us there's somebody already advocating for the solution that they would like and so we don't are not necessarily getting all of the objective information I think short of the capital planning committee going to all of those different meetings which is kind of an an untenable solution for several volunteers we need to come up with another process that gets ahead of that um so that like John said it's like okay great it would be great if we could have um the the Cadillac version of this but we can afford the Chevy what does the Chevy look like um but by the time it gets to Capital planning committee somebody has already figured out how to very um adamantly advocate for the Cadillac version in a really compelling way so that's part of the issue but but back to the senior center I do think Linda you guys were looking at um the different you know the cost scenarios for buying a building or leasing long term right they're looking at a a really shortterm term lease I believe is what people are looking at with a with keeping a long-term solution of a build um but you know when you look at12 million which is the senior centers that are many that we visited were newly built they're running at about $1,000 a square foot so that's about right that's definitely in the ballpark 12 million that's and that's a lot of years of even hundred or $150,000 rent is like 80 years which is beyond the useful life of of a build so it's something we should consider you know even in the long term I think um and I think it has to be on the table especially in mayor we just don't have land you know there's no land to build like many of these other towns they have Town land you know you have empty land where you can build a big parking lot we just don't have that in mean or but it's a you know there's there are ways off it would be nice to have a you know I'm sure it' be nice to have a nice New Standalone building or a community center or something I I I think this is you know a good topic we should talk about next Tuesday uh whenever the meet um just I don't I want to derail it only on this but um you know I do think the Committees that evaluate the thing you know I have a tendency to arrive at the new building as the solution I know when we did the high school you know in theory we looked at regionalization and I know everybody was looking at regionalization hated the idea um so you know there I think there are the Committees tend to attract people that want to build something new um so yeah we have to figure out who is charged with trying to get to Chevy if I just may and I know I don't want to speak for everybody on Capital planning but I personally am actually really happy to hear the comments that are coming from fincom um just because like I feel like we're we talk about these exact things in our committee meetings too like how does a town at our size with our tax base with our rigidity associated with land usage and the ability to grow exponentially and all these things how do we solve the problems that are facing us so I I just like personally like these are all the questions like coming up and conversations that we have week over week as we're thinking about these items so again just you know we're I feel like we're very much allies in this case of trying to think through these problems and try to think through these Creative Solutions of combining projects and saying you know listen you know I don't know who said it but some of these things aren't sexy and we got to still knock out the DPW Yard because that roof is literally caved in and just you know these are things that like have to be discussed and deliberated and thought through and and in clearheaded somewhat unbiased minds they're willing to be open to saying yes we need a new building and other times saying no we don't not not only do we not need a new building we don't need this really for another 10 15 years and I think like those are the you know it sounds like you all are in this too but I just got to say like this is really music to my ears hear these comments coming out from your side too and I'd add you know the capital planning committee has definitely heard me complain about this a lot but um for fincom I think the approach and this makes sense the way that a town is structured and the way that Municipal governance works the approach to budgeting is very very siloed um and everyone is kind of just in their Lane and looking at what's in their Lane and so I think the other kind of just the much bigger answer to helping solve this is to have um conversations about these things in a group context um so that it's not just Capital planning saying we have to think about all this it's not just fincom saying we have to think about all these things in concert with each other that it's actually you know at these quad board meetings or at regular meetings with all of these boards saying okay well here's what's on the table we need a new DPW garage and we need new bleachers and we can only afford one so what does everybody think we should do um and you know that's obviously a little bit of a hyperbolic and provocative example but I think getting people out The Silo thinking about budgeting is it is something else that the town needs to do more of to to get us toward um solving some of these larger issues yep and I think that's why I'm also very excited we're starting to do some of these joint meetings and multi-board meetings because I think that's talking to people is the only way that that you're going to get out of that mindset is my personal opinion yeah we only have 20 minutes though to talk about Capital planning in the meeting so I know it's G to be tough we can give you some of our 15 minutes if that's helpful wait really I thought it was an hour I thought it was an hour on Capital an hour on the budget it got cut back I I I think the last agend yeah what time is it at again oh s 6:30 uh it's gonna start at 6:30 6:30 okay so there'll be five minutes for introduction 20 for CPC 15 for schools 15 for finance 15 for select board and then questions and then adjourn is the last schedule I saw um I mean we can talk about this later if you want but I mean why do we want 15 minutes they they wanted to talk about that future projection spreadsheet um but I'm still I'm still more concerned about talking about Capital stuff and making sure that everyone's on board with all our needs so um because I'm still not entirely sure we have people on board that actually want to do future projections so it a test P to the capital planning committee I mean I can pull up our spreadsheet we don't have a sophisticated website right now but I do have a a spreadsheet uh but uh I'm going to be honest with you I haven't updated it since like probably February so um right all right kind of curious oh if you want to pull up the spreadsheet I'd be curious to see what's on it yeah I I didn't know if there were any further questions or discussions about about clear go or other Capital things first I didn't want to cut anyone off here all right I gotta take back host how I do that I made you ho I I think I gave it I'm the worst person ever but I think I gave it to you so Jillian if we ever had access to budget book would that take place of these spreadsheets potentially I don't know I've never seen the budget book so that's a great question and that was sort of one of the reasons I wanted to talk to youall about how this this works because if everything's in clear go then everyone can see it um you know like you were saying John it's not it's not a version of a version of a spreadsheet that someone accidentally deleted a sellin or something so um this is honestly just the past couple of years so I have not updated it yet with the FY 25 budget that was at the ATM so this is back from January is the last time I updated the spreadsheet and this has you know this is our major budget category so it has all the revenues at the top um so it'll have what the new growth is estimated and then the amended New Growth so like what it actually was at the end of the day to give you this this actual number in blue um and then everything so we have our debt exclusions so that includes everything and then we added this new line here for the Green Meadow School which started in 25 so it's about $3 million uh from my understanding and uh it goes through all the major revenues here so um all the different assessments you know uh and if something's in a parentheses it's obviously a negative number so you know we're spending some money on charter schools and school choice and things like that um and you know you get your total revenue number here by the above addition of all so and you can see year to year how that changes um and then our expenses of course so um and this is over the past couple fiscal years where I need to update the yellow so it was what was fast at ATM um and then your assessments and overlays uh and you know you get net numbers so obviously if a number is in parentheses here it's negative so this is in blue is me projecting forward three years um by using the average so this orange column is the average increase between these years so I'll need to update this to include FY 25 um to get an idea of the trends from the past and then I literally would just take this and I would um use it to project forward the same number for like the next 3 years so um you know I've gotten some feedback saying people want to project or change whatever that percentage for each year and you know my argument is I just I kind of want to make it as simple as possible and as you project out further it's not going to be as accurate anyway it's kind of to give an idea of what numbers might be and if you know say we want to add a line in here for like an override or some other thing you can see what that would do to the overall net budget which is you know up up here at the top um so it's so it's not rocket science it's uh it's a spreadsheet so and it's not um I'm thinking about maybe grass or some other way to to look at it at this meeting coming up but I mean I think I need to get people on board so I've heard a lot of why we shouldn't use a spreadsheet like this um and not not people excited about projecting out you know potentially three years even if it's not perfect it's definitely better than nothing but I'm a little bit concerned because it seems like we have a deficit and the deficit gets a lot bigger every year in the future yes so this is the main criticism of projecting like this so we tried to do this back when there was another member M on the community Bob McCarthy um and I was helping him with making some graphs and other functions to support some of the projections he was doing and the main criticism is that you know three years out you're always going to have like a million or a$2 million dollar deficit based on just using past Trends and somehow we always make the budget work every year this is this is the argument i' I've received in the past so we don't need to project it out because we'll just figure it out year to year and that million dollar never manifests um and we're going to get to a point where we can't cut Services uh without drastic cuts to um you know what you actually get what we what we need as a town um or what the towns people think we need as a town um like we would keep making budget cuts at some point we're going to get a a cut in the service that will be unacceptable um to some people so this is something to think about we're we're running out of things to cut we we need to find growth is is my personal opinion we we've made it work in the past and I just think we're going to get to an area where we're not going to be able to do that the school said that they've used a lot of their Reserve funds to sort of make up for the deficit this year and there sounds like they're not going to be able to do that and then years going forward because it doesn't replenish fast enough um so I mean that I think that's probably why the school committee would like to add that as a topic at our meeting next week can I ask about that for a second and what because I don't I want to say something but I don't know that I'm educated enough we got a whole bunch of temporary funding from the federal government to help with transition back and John you muted yourself while you're talking the federal government gave us some and I remember when we got the grants it was great and I felt like the school committee or the school budget superintendent Services were added to help with those transition and now I'm wondering do they become structural are they based are they now Based Services when the federal funding dries up now the town to keep level servicing has to pick up that TX or was it always intend and they did it with a free cash last year they took a little free cash and now they're including it in their budget and I'm like you can't take temporary in my opinion are they taking temporary funds to to fund things that should be temporary but they automatically immediately become structural does fincom see that or am I wrong on that observation that is a question that I did have in the past for the school committee particularly during the co years where there was additional staff added to support um like the new regulations to meet the covid guidelines um and that is something that I'm not entirely clear on um to be honest that that is something I've asked in the past so um but it sounds like Peter you're theis on right to the school oh okay uh I'm not answering based on that but more um just talking with them but um so I think when they got all the federal covid money they were careful to try you know they weren't supporting second grade teachers with it um because they knew it was going to end um I think they would argue that some of the things the feds funded turned out to be really good ideas and that you know particularly issues around and you know I'm not going to say this well but you know kids not being socialized right because they spent a year in their own bedroom or whatever the is that those are ongoing things that haven't stopped because Federal funding is dried up so some of you know the counseling adjustment couns you know the stuff they added with covid money they're saying we really need to continue it because it's what's best for kids and so they're trying to juggle how to do that um I so you know I the whole thing didn't become structural but I think some part of it they're wanting to continue yes definitely and I think we also need to be clear too is that the money that was granted had very specific uses and it could be only used for very specific things it couldn't just be used um at their discretion like there were there were guidelines on I think that funding in particular no I get I get that and does sound like you know for what whatever have you counseling is probably where yeah it was earmarked and okay to spend it on counseling and now the thought is that the kids are back and hopefully adjusted to being in school after two years so there's a less need of counseling right now but the but the town's saying no we still actually need that counseling um so it just puts them in a tough puts us in a tough position um so all right um do you guys have better insight into the numbers from I can't find good like these numbers are great I read spreadsheets but I don't see spreadsheets from the school there's a big big it's just a one big line item or maybe a couple does fincom have access to to budgets School budgets um yes so um so going forward is always an issue because the schools really don't produce the detailed line item budget until they know what the bottom line from the town is so it's not like you know the town Maps out their future budget you know line item by line item the schools I think are always feeling like they're going to get less money so they don't do the work of doing the line item budget until they know the bottom line of what they have to meet um that said at this point I don't think we have the FY 24 budget yet um unless I missed it but we do have you know the line item budgets going back not as many years as I have for the town but you know three or four or five years um did you say to you John if you want it I don't think I have fy2 24 yet isn't fy4 ending in like a month like three day yes yeah so I just they haven't given it to us yet oh yes yeah this is you do have it yeah this is what they sent us in the back in the past in the past so this is 21 to 23 oh all right so so we get certain line items um you can see how things are broken out um huh but for instance they won't create this for fy2 until they know that bottom line and then yes we should have FY 24 by this point I just haven't asked enough to get it yet but so that's a little confusing to me because even though they don't do it line by line to till they get them number from the town they come into the budget and January with a pretty usually whatever 8% higher Top Line that they have estimated but I don't know where that estimate's coming from you know when they come in at the first town the budget meetings yeah they have a number and if they're not doing it by line item or looking at their line items they just what what is that what's their request coming from I think in general they are able to estimate um contractual increases for current staff and they add that and then they're mostly looking at you know some you know operating expense changes I know they were pushing that you know fuel's a lot more expensive electricity is more expensive um and then a lot they're just looking at new initiatives and they put a price tag on that so you know they take last year's number add those three things together and come up with what they're requesting for level service okay that Excel sheet around is that possible or is that open to the public I we just showed it at fincom that makes it open to the public yes totally um yeah great so I do you want to do that Julie I think that's my spreadsheet but U if you I send it around if you want to do it either or find fine by me well why don't you send it then if you because you're the chair and sure then you'll send it from a fincom account too maybe I don't use mine if I may and I'll I'll State this and be fine seeing it but like you know I I just find that to be tough when all the other departments are able to forecast line items you know forward and we're knowing that the fiscal year 24 budget has not been published yet with less than with 27 days until fisal year 24 ends um I don't think it's prudent financially as a town to have an organization be budgeting expost I think it should be done prior to spending money that's just I just want to be clear I would not state it that way iware I know this a recorded meeting and I know but I'm just saying it's just like but I yeah so I believe the budget fully exists and they're using it and it's in their reporting software I have not gotten a copy of it and Incorporated it into that spreadsheet got it that's a different story then thank you yes sorry for the tangent all all right do we have any other joint topics to speak on tonight I think we had a really robust discussion and and it was much appreciated yeah we covered a lot thank you guys for thank you for adding and yet another meeting to your schedule um yeah much appreciated um it was excellent thank you all right yeah I enjoyed it I'm happy to talk at Future meetings if you want us to it was useful yeah all right sounds great we're going to continue on with additional uh Finance mini meeting business you're you're welcome to stay if you desire we're going to go on to our next agenda topic um or peace out so it's up to you guys so no offense way do they need to close their meeting or anything do they need to close their meeting or anything or I I leave it up to B we're not having meeting we're just uh visiting the fincom meeting we're just here to help answer questions we're not having a capital meeting I don't think we have to follow official procedure it was listed as a quorum like listing it wasn't listed as its own meeting I think okay correct all right thank you all thank you all all right uh great yes so I think that was really robust discussion um so that was awesome the next topic on our agenda is uh debriefing for the ATM so uh I don't know if you want to take that up Katie I did not attend uh due to a conflict um yes so everything passed um I think the most controversial note was the rooster which was comical um the the rooster um did not did not the town did not pass that um for the rooster band um but but yeah I think everything that we've recommended other than that um passed if I'm not correct um the town had a lot of questions for um Chris um Arsenal on the um like like the overlay and the Powder Mill um you know where that's going to be and why we have to do it and why it's so important at pasts um but it did so that that was great [Music] um yeah anything to note that you guys can um there was also the extensive discussion on the Adu oh yes um and the 70% of Rental Right which I actually felt like we could have that slightly or didn't talk about it specifically um and maybe we should have thought about that a little more but so the the rental rate on an on the accessory dwelling unit is limited to 70% of the HUD median something or other but I think what's important is they're allowing it to rent right and that's new they weren't allowing it to be rental prior to this yes absolutely that's very true but I you know there were certainly some towns people that say wait why should it just be market rate right and I'm not sure I thought about that when I was looking at that to say well wait why are you doing 70% and you know they're doing it because they want to make it affordable housing but it you know would have been something I wish I had thought of more my I'm going on my memory here um but I remember talking to Chris about it during the meeting and I believe his explanation had to do with like changing the character of neighborhoods as well and he didn't want to create something where like everybody's going to start building extra like apartments on their lots and changing like single family plots into like multifam um units so it's like a way of allowing like a little bit of extra income for people without like incentivizing the change of neighborhoods yeah and also I believe that like if if you lived in the primary residence you could move into the Adu and rent your primary residence for full rent it was just the ad no no I'm wrong I I think that would be limited to 70% of market rate too oh town meeting that you could go into the accessory dwelling unit you could live in the smaller bit and rent the Full House for like Market rent yeah I think so okay maybe I'm mistaken sorry okay it was just the Adu that you you were limited to cuz people r their houses and they want to be able to rent their houses and I think the idea was you know you have these seniors who can't afford to live here anymore what if they lived in their Adu and rented out their primary residents or rented out you know their Adu and maybe they got less but it still gave them some extra income um but yeah we didn't discuss it much I agree Peter it wasn't a big topic that we really dove into prior um yeah and anything else I think a majority of it was just standard he we spent more time on rers than $50 million you're spending though right that passed immediately no questions asked no questions asked on the budget the moderator does such a good job moving it moving it along and then um allowing enough discussion it's really it's such an important job yeah yeah all right um well great if there's no additional topics for the ATM debriefing discussion I can jump on to the next the multi-board meeting that's coming up on June 11th um okay so like I said my understanding is that this meeting will start at 6:30 p.m. uh it will be a joint so it'll be a hybrid meeting uh the physical location I think will be in the fire station like the budget meeting was in February um but there'll also be a remote dial in option from what I understand I don't think this has been posted yet um it hasn't it'll be I wasn't aware that it's been posted yet I haven't checked today so no I I'm look I'm looking at the town website now it has not been posted I checked too and it wasn't posted yet so the person who's been bugging me um as you might not be surprised is Bob McCarthy um and he's I mean I think he's got a legit point that wait if this is supposed to be to get more people involved there is almost no publicity this meeting it's not even posted yet so it's not like people can look at it you know he's he's saying oh he's heard rumors there's going to be this meeting that he might want to go to um so any I I don't know what to do with that at this point but it would be nice to see a posted as quickly as possible um you know and I don't I guess we're not doing much publicity for it but um it would be nice to do some for future meetings I guess what is the time frame that a meeting has to get posted prior to the meeting 48 hours 48 hours that's not much um yeah so like I said when the CPC was here there there's going to be like a short intro and then there'll be 20 minutes for the capital planning committee the school also requested time to talk about the potential the bleachers I think and the operational potential override um so like to talk about their Capital stuff and their their other things we got 15 minutes because um they're somewhat interested in me talking about that threeyear future planning which I just I'm not sure like we actually have people on board to do it which is honestly why I haven't really touched it since February or whenever the last time we we did that spreadsheet was um and then the select Board gets some time and then there's questions so it looks like they're going to set it up to try to be like I don't know a 6:30 like a 8:00 p.m. meeting if so but it says you know this is at the discretion of the chairs so I'm assuming that if we you know if we want to like really scream and stamp our feet we can say like you know no I think the capital planning committee should get like an hour and the school committee gets I don't 30 minutes to talk about their stuff and then we don't need any time and the board doesn't need time and we'll just leave the rest for questions or something like I think that's why I haven't been posted yet maybe um one of the issues and I'm just raising it um I get it was budget subcommittee um which I didn't know was going on that certainly came out at budget subcommittee so um Jeff Swanberg as you may remember has been doing this kind of comparative analysis thing trying to figure out towns and then you know looking at their budget versus hours and a n you know trying to factor a number of things um apparently the school committee has a real issue with some of the towns that have been selected and don't feel that they're representative um and I guess I I I'm assuming I haven't really delved into it but that you know some of the towns make it look like they do education cheaper than we do or you know something like that that somehow the schools don't come out looking great in this comparison um and so that was highlighted at budget subcommittee where you know Natasha really wasn't so about this being presented um and Jeff was fairly insistent that he was going to present it anyway and you know it doesn't mean everybody's bought into it um but just FYI for context going into this meeting I don't know what's going to happen at this meeting at the tribe yeah there seemed to be a lot of friction between the two on that you you could feel it in the the back and forth conversation I didn't know was an issue um nor did I think yeah I I I haven't talked to Natasha further about it as to what the really what their Hang-Ups are but apparently they they're not thrilled with this comparison just FYI going into the meeting good to know um yeah so I think that's that's the current schedule right now so maybe he's just waiting I haven't sent anything back yet because I was going to obviously talk about it at the at our meeting here to see if there's any feedback or suggestions um like I said I'm not entirely sure we need 15 minutes I mean I can talk about how future planning is important but I don't know we're never going to get consensus from every single person on every single board about what that would look like and it's some some point this is like our scenario or like how we're going to propose it though we can do what we think is best um nothing is going to be perfect and I don't want to and there's some saying about making something trying to please everyone you're not going to it's just not going to happen Perfection doesn't exist so at some point we just sort of have to take a shot and say you know this isn't perfect but we feel like this will help us think about future planning for XYZ and that's why I wanted to talk to the capital planning committee tonight because I think they're they have a really good pulse on some of the things that aren't necessarily captured in like the type of planning I'm these spreadsheets we're doing right now oh y i i was really impressed by that what they were showing on cleargov and how different departments are submitting things to them um like one thing with because Jill you have your spreadsheet I I have like my version and both of them it's it's kind of like based on stuff that's happened in past and it it you know we're like estimating what might happen in the future but you know just thinking like about the annual town meeting it's like we something articles are like we need a new ambulance every six years or or whatever there's stuff that can be planned for those departments know about and you know if everybody can be in like clear gov submitting that that might be the best most accurate way to do any sort of future planning and if there's an actual program budget books like we need access to that just to play with it and see if everyone else is using cleargov and we can tap into and also use it and all be on the same page you know that that seems the biggest sticking point with the spreadsheets is that you know it's everyone's doing something different but if we're all using clear go then we it' be great to have access to that and play around yeah and I know some departments are doing fiveyear plans now too so I'm not sure how far out those are being forast but in reality I know some departments are are ahead of that more more than others um but you know for example go ahead Peter no no go ahead um if for example this this budget spreadsheet if this is something that the town has to pay for every year if we want to use this budget book I want to make sure it's actually worthwhile like people are actually going to use it like if it's going to be8 or $10,000 or something a year and nobody gives a damn then I don't want to waste the town's money because I know there's a lot of other things that could really use it yeah I was gonna say um two things one I do get a little concerned about cleargov almost being too detail oriented so that you're not I mean the nice thing about our spreadsheet is you can say okay we're going to assume a 2% increase for DPW without going in and having to you know I don't know fill out an estimated monthly gas cost so that they can come up with what the DPW would be and yeah I don't know how detailed um cleargov is but when we did the UMass spreadsheet that was incredibly detailed in trying to you know predict future years but required a huge amount of Maintenance to really make it work um but one thing we could do I we should actually talk back to John Lin and get the name of his friend to know another finance committee who's you know not a sales guy for cleargov and get you know their impression of how it is and how easy it is to use um might be our best source of information um before lose the train of thought can I go back to just feedback on the agenda Jillian yep um I mean whatever you decide is fine with me and you know the meeting as it is you know fine although it sounds too much to me like the February meeting which doesn't usually generate conversation and right that's what I'm my feedback would be I'd rather it be um a more dedicated discussion on two topics and I would you know sacrifice fincom and the select board and do it as 20 minutes of capital planning and then you know 20 minutes or 30 minutes of discussion on Capital planning and not have it Wing off into you know somebody's going to start talking about the schools don't do a good enough job publicizing themselves I don't want to hear that conversation again um and then you know maybe there's a second topic whether it's you know if the you know FY 24 budget or you know if Jeff is really wants to do his town thing then maybe we have discussion on that but rather than kind of move through three or four presentations and then have this random discussion at the end to do the agenda that builds in discussion on the topic discussed you know or presented on right after it with some kind of cut off that now okay you know we're never going to solve our Capital but to do 20 to 30 minutes on it and then move on to the next topic I think might help Focus discussion a little bit more yeah I agree and that's my understanding what the meeting was originally going to be it was going to be yeah a long time on Capital and we were going to talk about discussing it and then the school part was like oh we need to talk about this too and then I think maybe the select board and the fincom were added to make sure everyone had a voice but I don't for me that's not important um I agree I just you know we'll be in the discussion part we're not going to be quiet but I don't think we need to make a presentation is what I'm trying to say I can make a presentation I can always make a presentation I can always talk right but I don't think I I want to make sure we focus on what we need to actually do so that's my opinion but I wanted to sort of read the room too because if someone is very passionate about saying something then and feels we need a presentation that's not the vibe I'm getting but I wanted to check in since we're a committee and it's not just one person anybody talk at these meetings or is it limited to fincom members this we have public component yeah so uh no it's definitely open if you'd like to make a comment we were excited to teach the town about capital and we're kind of sad when we got cut from an hour down to just 20 minutes I think this is our first time talking to three committees at once we have a lot of um background and introduction yeah some of which we covered here today so you guys will be 20 minutes ahead of everyone else that's why I wanted to make sure that can on the same page as you guys yeah okay yeah you haven't had the similar conversation yet with the select board right NOP not yet okay yeah but I really like petza idea and if you'll let me I would like to suggest it as the meeting strategy is pretty much everything Pete said sounded good yeah and to me what was most important is you have a list of all the projects to I forget 200 it's a blowa away number yeah they told me I'm not allowed to project by project Center Garage but then you you you focused on like the storm water it's like oh my God what why is that such a it well you you don't really have priorities but I would hope that the the boards as they come together might help you help the town set some priorities and how we're going to move forward on you know the most strategic projects oh the problem is the storm water projects always rank near the bottom and since we get more projects than we get money I'm afraid they're never going to get done unless we have a separate Source just for storm water projects yeah I'm afraid it's gonna seem like a new tax to everyone in town and I don't know if everyone in town wants to pay a new tax no they don't not so sure I want too much self um one thing Douglas I would say you know if you'll take a suggestion you can do whatever you want obviously um I think it's fair to be less remedial at these meetings um sometimes you know like Greg Johnson will start to answer a question and go into explaining what two and a half is I'm like we don't need that at these kinds of meetings I think we should go in assuming people know know a little bit about town finance and if they can't keep up sorry um but we don't have time to explain you know I I think it makes sense to talk about your ranking thing but I don't think we need too much detail on that um just and I think most of us have heard it and you know do know that you guys have this rigorous process to do it um so as my suggestion only um do with it what you will yeah I hope to speed through all the basic stuff and focus on well we'll show you yeah yeah all good suggestions I think it would be great to have some discussion that does come to a head and you know as Lindsay said do we want DPW garage or bleachers and I mean we're not there's no discussion that we're all going to come to a consensus to get everything done we have to make choices and yeah so you want me to go to the select board and say we're making you choose between a a senior center and a DPW Yard we can only afford one of them what's your pick I'm terrified everyone in town is gonna be mad at me if I pick the wrong one no matter which one I pick half the town's gonna be mad at me yes we'll collocate the seniors in the and the DPW you know that's really interesting idea I like that Linda well Stow is next to the when they did the fire department the senior center got that's how the senior center get in they they built the fire station and the senior center right next next to it we and we miss we were thinking ahead more we could have done that when we our fire station yeah that boat floated Webster has a school looks exactly like a very familiar school on Summer Street Senior Center on the ground floor senior housing on the top floors I mean it's a lot of boats are just seems like ideas are floating away unfortun should we be thinking about attaching something onto Green Meadow as we build that you know that was another thing is the old Green Meadows land um and I guess it's I guess the decision has already been to tear it down but should we have Revisited you know thinking a I mean that was so good about you is looking at all the things we have to have should the DPW garage be there the senior center that's you know a resource at least have the options on the table so that was what seems so valuable to having a list and you could maybe mix and match some of the projects together well I can tell you some of my ideas that I've been told are impossible but I really like the idea that Acton and boxboro combin a lot of their their school system together their utilities and I think if we regionalize you know fire or police or education we could combine you know 10 Towns to have six fire departments I think that would be a huge efficiency savings but I've every time I bring it up I'm told it's just not something we can do well same thing the Acton Senior Center is closer to Mayor than it is to Acton you know it's so on the edge of Acton so can we just give Acton some money and say want to use your senior center sublet yeah yeah I have another idea how maybe I can get your opinion on it you're the finance committee I have two competing Visions for the future of mayard um one is like the path we're on which is continue growth we want to do more we want to get better we want to expand our budget every year and that seems to be the default for everyone and we've done a great job in the past I'm thrilled that we opened that Market Basket a couple years ago and these things are great for our town and if we want to keep growing we're going to need a lot of money for new well water but the other vision is what if we change course and strive for stability over growth I think if we limit the town grow growth based on how much water we can produce then we can avoid some expensive projects but we would would not be able to build more more buildings more houses more Renovations I was wondering if any of you have given thought to stability versus growth I think that's a really great question I'll jump in first just by saying um I don't know if I sent it around or shared it with you all but um Bob McCarthy is on like this online newsletter and they recently looked at sort of the water and SE capacity and how it could potentially impact our growth um and I think the the article sort of went into a bit on that topic um so that could potentially be a good resource and if you haven't talked to Bob he's a really great guy so yeah Bob's been to a few Capital planning meetings too yeah awesome um on your question I so the issue becomes the last couple of years I feel like the school system you know the kids per year we've been shrinking a bit and that makes it really difficult to maintain a school system we are are still a town that is fairly small and results in you know a lot of overhead or a lot of you know fixed cost that we have less people to spread it on um so that's one aspect of not doing growth that I think is a problem and then the second one would be the whole climate of the state and needing more housing that you know Maynard isn't like you know Sudbury with two acre lots but we still are primarily a single family house type town that I just don't think that's a sustainable model for the future that you know either we're going to get so expensive and you know we're gonna price out anybody who's been here for a while um or yeah I don't know what the alternative is that you know if we don't do growth then we become just a bunch of single family houses and I don't think that's the model for housing going forward in the state um is part of my issue so we need to figure out you know nobody from Maynard can buy a house in Maynard anymore um I mean my kids are all saying they can't live in the Northeast at all that's a national problem that's not just us well I don't know they could buy a house in Ohio or you know Iowa but for now wait another decade we'll see well maybe but um so I do think we need you know models that you know are a little more dense um you know I'm I'm all in favor I think groover Brothers Apartments should have been 10 stories I agree we're we're lucky we have a town with a strong dense urban car small but it's dense and with some good zoning changes multif Family Solutions I like your idea I always think about that with the senior center you know it's you had it cost it at 12 million but if we did a development could you get a housing developer put the senior center on the first floor put something else up on the top that would help defay the cost of the town I'm not sure if that's possible but um anything you know that sort of thinking out of the box maybe solving two problems at once of a senior center in housing um I'm not sure but sometimes I think we think at one project at a time and and like you said not the big vision of where the town is is going yes that has been a problem in the past and we're hoping to solve it in the like reactive to projects rather than proactive about what we should be doing yeah that's that's exactly the changes and improvements that Capital planning is hoping to do well actively doing um Jillian not to cut anything off but I do want to point out it's 10 past N9 and I'm not sure what else we're trying to get but um yeah I think maybe we'll go back to the uh the agenda here um all right so uh our next topic so I think um I didn't have any additional topics for the June 11th meeting um so unless anyone else does we would be onto our routine agenda um so I did not notice any minutes for approval from my last meeting I might have Miss that was my fault I'm half done no worries at all sorry um so I just want to make sure I didn't I was like I was traveling for work the past couple weeks and life has just been wonderful so um okay so some additional updates I did want to let you know and I think I sent this email around earlier today for the golf course one of the questions um I don't remember if was it the ATM or one of our past meetings but it was at the ATM it came up yeah okay so it was about the Sterling is responsible for repairs that are less than $6,000 so um so I did just want to let you know that number um like they're not they're not like responsible for fixing the whole facility basically um according to the contract um I did also want to let you know that the CPC the community preservation committee will have their public hearing on June 12th um and that will be going over the funding initiative I think and some of the requests that they have gotten um for their what they're going to do with their funds so I wanted to put that on your radar since they only um deliberate or consider like projects that are submitted to them so um if the bleachers are going to be submitted I would ass assume it might be at that meeting or before that meeting so they would have that information um so yeah so I think that that is we also did get a con there was a um on May 13th there was a community forum for the Green Meadow School for the building project so um I think I sent that back around in a past email but it was not um I think that maybe the the signal didn't get get out to the community because it sounded like not too many of the community actually participated but it was a good update on some of the funding initiatives and how much um msba is covering like it's um they're going to be covering like I think 44% initially we thought it was 35% so some of those numbers have um changed a little bit so they're uh they're in a in a positive direction for the town like in a good way so not like more money but more money will potentially be matched um I just want to put that on your radar and you already covered the budget subcommittee meeting overview so I think those does any other member have any other updates they wanted to bring up no okay um so I did want to let you know that technically the next meeting I'm going to post a quorum notice for the June 11th meeting so um I'll send that out later tonight um and our next actual finance committee meeting uh if we meet on our normal schedule would be June 24th um so um topics would be you know discussions on that it's not really a tri board meeting I think at this point it's almost like a quad board meeting um so our multiboard meeting and then we can talk more about future planning it gets kind of quiet in the summer months um but I'd also like to bring Greg in at some point to talk about the the budgets and any updates there um and we can start thinking about what will be coming up for the special town meeting too so um I haven't gotten any information yet on articles for that I think people are just sort of breathing a sigh of relief um that ATM is over so uh we also obviously have one seat open currently um because Kadija will be um retiring isn't the right word I can't make words bring tired um resigning that's the r word I'm looking for so she is resigning her position when it's over um and I know some of you have reached out to me about if that seat is still open so dick Downey is the one who is um responsible for appointing all of us as he appointed all of you so I haven't heard anything yet from him about potential applicants or other people so I'll reach out again to see if he has any updates for us um we keep you in the loop but if anybody knows of people they should those people should get in touch with tick Downey yeah to say they have an interest that's the path and my understanding was it was was uh advertised at the annual town meeting that there was an opening um so maybe he's waiting to see the results from that too but if you have people to suggest so I think um a couple of you did reach out to me about that so please um if you need dick down his email let me know uh I can forward it to you too but uh if you type type it in it should uh it should come up I think we've had several correspondences with him in the past but just as we start to get near the end of the year um and I'm sorry to put people on the spot but I'm um Katie are you reupping I think yes okay cool and then I don't uh Jillian are you willing to continue his chair or we have to face this again too or yeah that's a great question um so I don't know which you don't have to answer now and but it will be something well I mean it might be good to have so the first meeting of the fiscal year um dick Downey attends and opens the meeting and our first action is to elect a chair who then continues the meeting um it's always kind of embarrassing or it would be embarrassing to sit with tick Downey not having figured out who's willing to be chair in advance so you know at the last meeting in June which will be our next meeting it would be good to have an idea um so I'm just throwing that out there as it's coming up soon so um so okay yep okay sorry thanks Julia no that's great that's a good reminder I I always forget when stuff is coming and that's typically we typically stay on the same schedule right for the meetings so like if we're the second and fourth Mondays then dick would open the Monday on this the first the on the second Monday is that right is that how we do it uh on the eth yes okay yes it would typically be the eth um I mean as the at least the prior chair um I would expect that you would get in touch with him and you know confirm he's going to be here and wants to do it um and then you know would post the meeting um but yeah it would be July 8th I think is the first meeting of the fiscal year okay yeah that's great that's a great Point um yeah are there any other topics people want for the next meeting I was going to put on the dbrief from the quad and maybe some additional future planning if I can sneak Greg in get Greg update I have a question related to what we were talking about sorry Jill do for those of us who are renewing or you know what whatever it is extending our ter renewing our term do we have to go down to the town um Hall and like sign anything or is there any formal procedure to that yes yes all right so just to be clear formal procedure is that dick Downey has to reappoint you okay and I I'm assuming based on that he hasn't reached out to you yet um it might be worth just sending an email saying I would like to continue and um yeah okay kind of thing um I do that that that is the first step is he you know your term ceases on June 30th and you need to be reappointed then reworn in um and that kind of stuff oh uh Jillian you were asking about topics um sorry it might be worth um reaching out to Greg so just coming up we'll have um there are potentially Reserve fund transfers for end of year or budget transfers and I don't I mean I'm imagining we'll be you know pushing July 15th to finalize all that because I think they're still you know not perfectly staffed at the finance department in town but um I don't know if he'd have any of that ready to talk about um you know at our last June meeting the 24th okay yep okay I will also reach out about that um okay yeah and I'll put on um a topic I guess formally about talking about um I'll make good words about talking about our committee uh starting in the new fiscal year here the plans for who does what position and fy2 planning yeah yeah I you know it's not like I want a short circuit dick in doing the election and we can't you know decide anything before that but no no it's a good point we've always talked about it years before to see what page everyone's on so okay great uh all are there any other topics for tonight because I think that's everything on the agenda all right I am here nothing do I hear a motion I will second that motion oh so eager all right there there's been a move to adjourn at 9:22 p.m. by Linda seconded by Katie I will take a roll call vote to adjourn Nathan yes Linda yes Peter yes Katie yes I am also a yes so we are adjourned thank you everyone for your time tonight much appreciated and we will talk to you next time